Re: [HACKERS] hardware needed ?
Hi Eric, We've already done a fair amount of testing of PostgreSQL on Sparc hardware and Solaris, so it's probably not all that interesting... :-/ However, about an hour after you sent through your message, we received this one from Myk Melez. He's asking us if there is a publically available PostgreSQL server, and there isn't yet, so I'm wondering if you'd be willing to setup a PostgreSQL server on your Sparccenter 2000 and let anyone anywhere connect to it, for a while at least. We wouldn't want it to be extremely long term, as you never know what un-cool things people could decide to store in there, but it might be useful for a week or two after Myk's article becomes available for readers. Would you be interested in this? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Original Message Subject: [GENERAL] publicly available PostGreSQL server? Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 12:33:10 -0800 From: Myk Melez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Organization: mozilla.org To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is there a publicly available PostGreSQL server? I'm co-writing an article for an online journal that includes information about Mozilla's upcoming database support, and I'd like to point readers to a PostGreSQL installation where they can try out an example app without having to install their own server. More info about database support in Mozilla: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=81653 -myk Eric Gentilini wrote: Hi all, I didn't find any other list compatible with this post, I hope it is the right place. I got a sparccenter 2000 (sun4d) few weeks ago and I wondered if the postgresql team was interested in testing postgres on it. It has only 2 CPUs at this time but I may get more cpu and system boards in the next month. I thought it would have been interesting to test postgres on uch an architecture. Are you interested ? Would you be interested ? It runs solaris 8 and linux, but linux doesn't support smp on sun4d :/ ... and since the kernel team doesn't work on sparc32 anymore, I thought it could be used by user-land software projects. The machine is located on an dsl lins 128/512kbps. seeya a+ -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Robert Treat wrote: Well, my previous employer uses postgresql, but they were under constant assault from their clients to use oracle or db2. Technically there was no reason to switch, but if your choice is switch databases or go out of business, there really isn't much choice. That tells me their clients wanted a commercial database, not one that's open source. All the marketing in the world won't change that. Really? Why do you say that? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Vince. -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
Vince Vielhaber wrote: Because of this taken from the above quoted text: "they were under constant assault from their clients to use oracle or db2" Last I looked neither Oracle or DB2 were open source, but they both just happen to be commercial and I don't see mysql mentioned. And ? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Anything else you don't understand about that? Vince. -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Vince Vielhaber wrote: Because of this taken from the above quoted text: "they were under constant assault from their clients to use oracle or db2" Last I looked neither Oracle or DB2 were open source, but they both just happen to be commercial and I don't see mysql mentioned. And ? And what? If you can't understand the above you're in the wrong business. And ? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Vince. -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
Vince Vielhaber wrote: > That's what I thought. You have no argument so your just typing. Hi Vince, Was more hoping you'd care to share your basis for stating Robert's employers clients wanted a "commercial database", after he mentioned specifically DB2 and Oracle. Knowing one of the obvious common factors they have and then stating it was definitely the reason - not having sought clarification nor confirmation from Robert - and then further stating that the PG Advocacy and Marketing group wouldn't be able to assist even if that were the case, is extremely bad form coming from anyone, let alone you. Please consider the statements you make by a more accurate approach in the future. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Vince. -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
Hi Tommi, Tommi Maekitalo wrote: Hi, there are lots of sites talking about postgresql. But if someone hear about postgresql he sure tries www.postgresql.org. There he just get a list of mirrors. Not really a good start. But worse: there is no links to gborg, advocacy, techdocs, ... Advocacy should be found at www.postgresql.org and have links to the other pages. I found gborg when reading the mailinglistst. It is something like a insidertip. There is a new front page for the www.postgresql.org site that was recently finished, and will be moved into the correct place soon. You can view it for now at wwwdevel.postgresql.org. The new front page has links to the other main websites, so it should help people find the information they need in a much easier way. :-) Hope that's helpful to know. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Tommi -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Let's create a release team
Hi Dan, It's been mentioned a few times on the Advocacy and Marketing list that we should put together a process for ensuring that all the parts necessary for a release occur properly and smoothly. *** Source code - Initial packaging of the new releases' source code Docs - Confirm with Peter that the Docs are 100% correct in the new source archive RPM's & SRPM's - Co-ordinate with Lamar to have these ready before the general announcement? Press Releases for the General Public (multiple languages) - Advocacy and Marketing guys should put together a Press Release intended for the General Public, and have it reviewed/confirmed by the Hackers before getting it ready - Robert (?) should arrange translation of this "confirmed good" Press Release into multiple languages Press Release for the Technically Minded (?) - Advocacy and Marketing guys (?) should put together a Press Release intended for the Hackers and other Technically Minded folk. Should definitely be reviewed for accuracy by the Hackers before releasing it Websites - Ensure all of the required documentation mentions, links, release info, etc is put in place on the website Mailout - Email the appropriate Press Releases to the General Public, and to the Technically Minded groups Feedback - Find out what could have been done better, and figure out how to make it so for the next one if appropriate *** That was just what came to mind and there's probably more. Each part should probably be something that can be broken down into the necessary parts so that everyone can take care of the bits they're into. I suppose it would be good to have this listed somewhere so that people can make suggestions. Just whipped up a page listing these main points here, and everyone has the ability to make suggestions/edits directly onto that page: http://advocacy.postgresql.org/documents/ReleaseProcess Hopefully that's helpful. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Press release: - Supports data in many international characters sets (UNICODE, EUC_JP, EUC_CN, EUC_KR, JOHAB, EUC_TW, ISO 8859-1 ECMA-94, KOI8, WIN1256, etc...) That is just plain wrong. Support for various character sets is years old. Sure is. Notice it didn't say "just added" or "added with this release"? It just says "supports". It's to highlight the fact that it can be used for non-English character sets. Sure, a whole bunch of people know this, but the main target of the press release is people new to PostgreSQL that don't. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] http://www.postgresql.org/idocs/ is down
Hi Dan, Thanks for pointing this out. The Admin guys are looking into it now. Hopefully it'll be fixed soon. :-/ Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Dan Langille wrote: http://www.postgresql.org/idocs/ is down Warning: Unable to connect to PostgreSQL server: The Data Base System is shutting down in /usr/local/www/www/idocs/opendb.php on line 3 Unable to access database -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] http://www.postgresql.org/idocs/ is down
Hi Dan, The database for the postgresql.org sites is back up again now. Thanks for pointing it out. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Justin Clift wrote: Hi Dan, Thanks for pointing this out. The Admin guys are looking into it now. Hopefully it'll be fixed soon. :-/ Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Dan Langille wrote: http://www.postgresql.org/idocs/ is down Warning: Unable to connect to PostgreSQL server: The Data Base System is shutting down in /usr/local/www/www/idocs/opendb.php on line 3 Unable to access database -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Big 7.4 items
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is asynchronous without the need of 2 phase commit. It is group communication based and requires the group communication system to guarantee total order. The tricky part is, that the local transaction must be on hold until the own commit message comes back without a prior No, It holds until it's own Writeset comes back. Commits and then send a commit message on the simple channel, so commits don't wait for ordered writesets. Remember total order guarantees if no changes in front of the local changes conflict, the local changes can commit. Do people have to be careful about how they use sequences, as they don't normally roll back? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Darren -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Big 7.4 items
Bruce Momjian wrote: Joe Conway wrote: Point-In-Time Recovery (PITR) J. R. Nield did a PITR patch late in 7.3 development, and Patrick MacDonald from Red Hat is working on merging it into CVS and adding any missing pieces. Patrick, do you have an ETA on that? As Hannu asked (and related to your question below), is there any thought of extending this to allow simple log based replication? In many important scenarios that would be more than adequate, and simpler to set up. For PITR-log-based-replication, how much data would be required to be pushed out to each slave system in order to bring it up to date? I'm having visions of a 16MB WAL file being pushed out to slave systems in order to update them with a few rows of data... :-/ Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] v7.3.1 tar ready ... please check it ...
scott.marlowe wrote: On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: The problem is that there is nothing to announce ... "Hi, we fixed some bugs"? :) minor releases don't have any features added to them, so isn't really news worthy ... :( I don't know, if you're a postgresql user and you don't read these lists, you might find out about a bug in a release note and upgrade when you otherwise might not. www.linuxtoday.com has weekly updates from many gnu / OSS projects which are far less interesting than our 7.3.1 release is. I could see posting a minor upgrade release notice there and on other OSS news web site (freshmeat, slashdot, etc...) At the very least the PostgreSQL website team should be loudly notified so we can confirm the needed links have been updated prior to the release announcement. It probably wouldn't hurt to go through a proper release process, but determine which steps are optional or not needed for smaller releases. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Password Cracker
Dan Langille wrote: I'll do that. Justin: What's the URL for the .pgpass stuff? So far I see mention of using SSL. That's two items to cover. Anything else? Hi Dan, Very Cool. The URL for the .pgpass stuff is: http://developer.postgresql.org/docs/postgres/libpq-files.html :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] New Portal in Place, DNS switched ...
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Tom Lane wrote: "Marc G. Fournier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: the portal itself is not mirrored, butif you go to, for instance UsersLounge or Downloads, it then gives you the option of which mirror to go to ... Ah. But if I do either, I see Warning: pg_exec(): supplied argument is not a valid PostgreSQL link resource in /usr/local/www/www.postgresql.org/mirrors.php on line 28 and Couldn't query the mirrors table! Might just be a transient problem till DNS updates ... or not ... 'K, let's hope ... I tried it here and the flags all came up :( Dave/Justin? Ok, am online and DNS seems to be propagated out this way. Will take a look now. BTW - Should we do the redirects that the old postgresql.org used to do: i.e.: www.postgresql.org/doc -> www.ca.postgresql.org/users-lounge/ and similar. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] New Portal in Place, DNS switched ...
Hi Tom, Sorry about that. Was a combo of two simple problems. It's fixed now. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Tom Lane wrote: "Marc G. Fournier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: the portal itself is not mirrored, butif you go to, for instance UsersLounge or Downloads, it then gives you the option of which mirror to go to ... Ah. But if I do either, I see Warning: pg_exec(): supplied argument is not a valid PostgreSQL link resource in /usr/local/www/www.postgresql.org/mirrors.php on line 28 and Couldn't query the mirrors table! Might just be a transient problem till DNS updates ... or not ... regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] New Portal in Place, DNS switched ...
Peter Mount wrote: On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Marc G. Fournier wrote: I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :) Looks pretty good here. However, the bugs link on the main page is currently broken (404: Page not found) http://www.postgresql.org/bugs/bugs.php link from the main page. Ouch, sorry about that. It's fixed now too. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Peter -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [webmaster] [HACKERS] New Portal in Place, DNS switched ...
Marc G. Fournier wrote: 'K, but that won't help the mirrors themselves ... what we need to do is pull the users-lounge over to the new VM next ... Do you have access to 64.49.215.8? .9 works for me, but .8 doesn't. :-( Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
[HACKERS] OS/400 support?
Hi everyone, We don't support OS/400 yet do we? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] OS/400 support?
Tom Lane wrote: Justin Clift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: We don't support OS/400 yet do we? Never heard of it. Is it Unix-y? Do you have one available for testing? Oops, should have been clearer. OS/400 is the operating system on the IBM AS/400 series of midrange computers: Info: http://search400.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid3_gci331973,00.html IBM AS/400 page: http://www-132.ibm.com/content/home/store_IBMPublicUSA/en_US/eServer/iSeries/ Not sure if it's Unix-y or not. Just had the question come through the Advocacy site request form. Will see if anyone else has further info, and then ask the requestor for further details if not. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift regards, tom lane -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
[HACKERS] Have people taken a look at pgdiff yet?
Hi everyone, Just found out that the "pgdiff" utility (the one for comparing two different PostgreSQL database's) was released and uploaded to SourceForge in November: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pgdiff Have people already looked at this? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[HACKERS] Next platform query: Alphaservers under VMS?
Hi guys, Also received a through the Advocacy website asking if anyone has ported PostgreSQL to the AlphaServers under VMS. Anyone know if we run on VMS? Last time I touched VMS (about 10 years ago) it wasn't all that Unix-like. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] OS/400 support?
Hi guys, Have passed on the info everyone provided about ways of getting PostgreSQL working on the OS/400 on to the requestor. It would be interesting to see if they go with it. Thanks for the assistance... more stuff will keep on coming through of course. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Tom Lane wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It was based on the CMU "Hydra" project, Really!? Small world ... I was part of the Hydra team, more years ago than I like to admit in public. Somehow, I'm not sure that PostgreSQL-on-OS/400 is likely to be more than a curiosity. Probably. But a lot of our ports are just curiosities, at least to them as aren't running that particular OS. My feeling is that Postgres on top of PASE might be reasonable to support; I doubt we'd want to mess with a native port. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[HACKERS] Is the 7.3.1 geometry regression test supposed to pass perfectlyon Solaris 8 x86?
| <(100,200),10> | (5.1,34.5) | 180.778038568384 == bash-2.03$ *** CFLAGS and other relevant environment variables at time of compilation (trying to find the best ones): *** LD_OPTIONS=-L/opt/pgsql/lib -R$ORIGIN/../lib -R/opt/pgsql/lib -i -s -z origin MACHTYPE=i386-sun-solaris CPPFLAGS=-D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -O2 -march=i586 -mcpu=i686 -funroll-loops -fexpensive-optimizations -I/opt/pgsql/include CFLAGS=-D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -O2 -march=i586 -mcpu=i686 -funroll-loops -fexpensive-optimizations -I/opt/pgsql/include HOSTTYPE=i386 OSTYPE=solaris PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/ccs/bin *** Compiled using "./configure --prefix=/opt/pgsql --with-openssl" Is this stuff useful? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] psql and readline
Dan Langille wrote: As this is changing existing behaviour, I think adding an optional switch to revert to the old behaviour is a good idea. Two thoughts: a) Is it possible to change the behavior of the history as we're discussing? Haven't heard Peter's response to this. b) Do we really want to go to the effort of adding a switch to revert to previous behaviour for something like this? It's almost definitely a win to have \e commands appear in the history, and seems a bit to trivial for adding switches for. ? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] psql and readline
Justin Clift wrote: b) Do we really want to go to the effort of adding a switch to revert to previous behaviour for something like this? It's almost definitely a win to have \e commands appear in the history, and seems a bit to trivial for adding switches for. Bad wording there... "\e commands" is meant to mean "commands created through using \e" -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] psql and readline
Bruce Momjian wrote: Let's suppose I am writing a query, and then I do \e to edit the query, and I exit the editor and return to psql. Suppose I decide I want to reedit, so I up arrow. I would expect to get \e, not the query I just edited, no? Wouldn't it depend on how this gets implemented? Maybe least negative impact approach (suggested already): If the "large command that was edited" is put in the command history before the \e, then both are available and there is no big change from "expected behaviour". i.e. one up arrow get the previous \e, and a second up arrow would bring up the command that was worked upon. ? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] psql and readline
Hi guys, As a curiosity thought, would it be possible to do something like: \ep Where this tells psql to get the query in the history prior to the \e, and edit it interactively? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
[HACKERS] Anyone have a fresh Solaris 8 SPARC system to create a PG 7.3.1 packageon?
Hi guys, Have created a Solaris 8 Intel package for PostgreSQL 7.3.1, but don't have any SPARC boxes here any more. Does anyone have a SPARC box handy that would be available for compiling PostgreSQL 7.3.1 on? It would need to be Solaris 8 (or maybe 9), and have things like gcc 2.95.x and similar tools installed, as well as be patched with the latest recommended Solaris patches. Might be a huge ask, but am figuring it to be worth at least trying. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
[HACKERS] Anyone want to get involved in writing the the driver to connectStar/OpenOffice and PostgreSQL?
Hi guys, Have been discussing what it would take to write an "SDBC" driver for connecting StarOffice/OpenOffice to PostgreSQL with Frank Schönheit, a senior member of the Sun StarOffice/OpenOffice DBA team, and a few senior members of the OpenOffice project. SDBC is based largely on ODBC, so it might be more a matter of porting the existing ODBC stuff rather than a complete re-write. Frank reckons it would take about 2 man weeks of total effort if needed to be written from scratch, so it's probably not going to be too hard for an experienced C++ & PostgreSQL coder. Would anyone be interested in getting involved in doing this? If anyone's up for it, the Sun StarOffice/OpenOffice DBA team in Hamburg Germany will be available for support etc. Getting an SDBC driver written to connect Star/OpenOffice and PostgreSQL is very good step towards integrating PostgreSQL support further into Star/OpenOffice. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Anyone have a fresh Solaris 8 SPARC system to create
Mark Kirkwood wrote: I can get access to several boxes with Solaris 8 + gcc 2.95 ( maybe not right-up-to-the minute latest patches, but fairly recently patched). They are firewalled off from the internet with abolutely no chance of external access, but I can build whatever is required ( Pg 7.3.1 is already installed from source) and upload it to techdocs.postgresql.org (or similar). ...I've never tried to create a Solaris package so I will need answers to all the usual dumb questions - including what extra configure options are required as I've been building with *none* :-) That's cool. Making Solaris packages is pretty easy, and all of the files that might be tricky have already been created. The compilation notes taken whilst making the Solaris 8 Intel packages are at: http://techdocs.postgresql.org/guides/PackagingForSolaris It doesn't mention how to do the packaging bit, but it wouldn't be hard to create step by step instructions for you with minimal effort. :) Sound like a plan? Will also need someone else with a Solaris 8 SPARC system to try the packages out too, just in case there are weird library dependencies happening that might catch us out. Also, am wondering if learning how to do "cross compiling" instead might be worthwhile. Don't yet know anything about it, but it gets mentioned in a lot of documents. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift regards Mark -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Anyone have a fresh Solaris 8 SPARC system to create
Lamar Owen wrote: On Wednesday 15 January 2003 09:20, Justin Clift wrote: Sound like a plan? Will also need someone else with a Solaris 8 SPARC system to try the packages out too, just in case there are weird library dependencies happening that might catch us out. I have access to several (two dozen) currently unused Ultra30 systems. I can install Sol8 on one and Sol9 on another and provide ssh access (once I figure out how to get ssh working on Solaris) to you, once I know your static IP address or subnet range. It may be a few days to a week before I can do the actual installation, however. Wow, thanks Lamar. *That's* about as good an offer as I was hoping for. Mark, I can still teach you how to package stuff if you want. In this instance, having direct remote access to systems and being able to ensure things are 100% fresh and correct is that bit safer, as well as having other systems to test against. The easiest way to get OpenSSH up and running on a new Solaris box is to follow the instructions at: http://www.sunfreeware.com/openssh.html He provides packages there for just about everything, although you will need to download the official Solaris patch from the sunsolve.sun.com site that adds the /dev/random and urandom devices to the device tree. It's all pretty straightforward. :-) Can't wait! (But am going to have to). ;-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
[HACKERS] PostgreSQL 7.4 and Microsoft's SMS
Hi guys, Just received a query through the Advocacy site's request form... Does anyone know if PostgreSQL 7.4's native windows version will/would be compatible with Microsoft's SMS (System Management Server)? Looks like some places will be considering it for Enterprise Deployment if it is. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
[HACKERS] Can we revisit the thought of PostgreSQL 7.2.4?
Hi everyone, Over the last few days we've had patches submitted for 7.2.3 that address a couple of things, both the WAL Recovery Bug that Tom has developed a patch for, and a couple of buffer overflows that have been widely reported. Although we haven't wanted to release a 7.2.4, and have instead encouraged people to upgrade to 7.3.x, there are places out there who's applications aren't compatible with 7.3.x and would also need to upgrade them as well. It might be a really good idea if we re-visit the thought of 7.2.4 and have something that people running the 7.2.x series can use safely until they are able to move to 7.3.x or above. What would it take, and apart from patches for the buffer overflows and the WAL recovery bug, should anything else be included to ensure safety and stability? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
[HACKERS] Translation of the PostgreSQL manuals to Spanish is under way
Hi everyone, Christian Kuroki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> is a senior member of a team that is translating the PostgreSQL manuals to Spanish. There isn't a website for it yet (it will be created fairly soon) but the team is making good progress, and the manuals will be kept updated with the main PostgreSQL manuals. Does anyone out here who knows/writes Spanish have a bit of time to assist them with translation? These manuals will be available to all, just the same as with PostgreSQL itself, and will greatly assist in improving PostgreSQL for the Spanish Community. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] v7.3.1 psql against a v7.2.x database ...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have strongly considered doing this, and even started on the project some time ago. (I've stopped now). At first I wanted to add 7.3 and 7.4 features to a 7.2 psql. Then I considered writing a master psql that could handle any backend. In the end, however, I realized that with 7.3 well out the door, it was better to encourage people to upgrade to 7.3 and spend my energies on other things. If there is still a strong interest however, I can easily help out and share what I have already done. With ever more larger businesses adopting PostgreSQL, and that leading on to more places having several versions of PostgreSQL in operation simultaneously (i.e. development vs production) we're probably going to need to give psql the ability to handle whichever version of the PG backend it happens to connect to. Marc's suggestion of breaking psql into it's own sub-project makes good sense from that point of view. So... this stuff is interesting Greg. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- Greg Sabino Mullane [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200301161656 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: http://www.turnstep.com/pgp.html iD8DBQE+JyrzvJuQZxSWSsgRAmdUAJ4upWRFGKi1K5WYAwCVf36w1V4aAQCgvuD3 kCy+Q6EE/pum7Sojim+TJdM= =Tvn6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] v7.3.1 psql against a v7.2.x database ...
Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: With ever more larger businesses adopting PostgreSQL, and that leading on to more places having several versions of PostgreSQL in operation simultaneously (i.e. development vs production) we're probably going to need to give psql the ability to handle whichever version of the PG backend it happens to connect to. Marc's suggestion of breaking psql into it's own sub-project makes good sense from that point of view. Hey, good point. Giving psql the ability to handle multiple backend versions could be done in a number of ways. Subproject or not, why don't we just rearrange psql to dynamically load a library of functions, eg: libpsql72.so libpsql73.so etc... And in them you have functions like: printTableDef(); printViewDef(); etc... Is this very different from how it's done at present? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Chris -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Can we revisit the thought of PostgreSQL 7.2.4?
mlw wrote: This is an interesting thought. My gut tells me it is a viable opportunity for the corporate entities that offer support and wish to have 'VAR' status. This is just my opinion, but I view the core development group as pure development, and the various people that resell or distribute PostgreSQL as a for-profit business as those responsible for maintaining backward support. Maybe RedHat or PostgreSQL Inc can do this? It is a really good message, "The best of open source, with on going support." Very interesting thought. It could probably be done. Oh, hang on... Red Hat is taking that angle for now. :-) And not to re-open a can of worms, but if PostgreSQL could upgrade without having to do a dump and restore, then this wouldn't really be an issue. That's not really true. Have personally seen applications that places use and rely on that are not yet compatible with v 7.3.x, because the vendors of the applications compiled against something that was of version 7.2.x, and doesn't work with version 7.3.x. Now, that's not our fault, and not the fault of the places running the applications, it's just part of how PostgreSQL is applied out in the real world. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Anyone want to get involved in writing the the driver
Jeroen T. Vermeulen wrote: On Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 01:20:45PM +1030, Justin Clift wrote: Have been discussing what it would take to write an "SDBC" driver for connecting StarOffice/OpenOffice to PostgreSQL with Frank Schönheit, a senior member of the Sun StarOffice/OpenOffice DBA team, and a few senior members of the OpenOffice project. I think something like this is already being done based on libpqxx. See http://gborg.postgresql.org/project/libpqxx/bugs/bugupdate.php?403 for a feature request related to this work. Thanks Jeroen, it's good news. That's a bug filed by Peter Novodvorsky, but haven't seen him using that email address before. He's a pretty decent guy that started writing a PostgreSQL SDBC driver for OpenOffice many months ago, but seemed to have stopped and dropped out of sight. Looks like he might still be working on it. Will ask him, see how far he's gotten, how much more is needed, and so forth. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Jeroen -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
[HACKERS] Survey results from the PostgreSQL portal page
Hi everyone, Dave Page put up a new survey on the PostgreSQL portal page very recently, " What would attract the most new PostgreSQL users?" and the results in already are interesting (1,529 results as this is being written): http://www.postgresql.org/survey.php?SurveyID=9 Listed from most voted for to least voted for we have: *** AnswerResponses Percentage More speed 505 33.028% Win32 Port 390 25.507% Replication 386 25.245% Better docs 160 10.464% More features 32 2.093% Better marketing 29 1.897% Better migration 18 1.177% PITR 9 0.589% Total number of responses: 1529 *** Now, we don't necessarily have a speed problem, as people who take the time to tune the database can attest to, so this is making me consider why such a large percentage of folk would vote for that. The possibilities that come to mind immediately are: + People don't know that they should tune the database, and are leaving the configuration settings at the defaults. We could adjust the perception of PostgreSQL's speed for these people by adjusting the default settings. We were already considering raising the memory buffer defaults weren't we? + People are having troubles related to VACUUM. This is being worked on presently isn't it? + People don't know *how* to tune the database properly yet? + Maybe we need more inbuilt self-tuning abilities or utilities for PostgreSQL? Other interesting conclusions can be drawn from the results too, one of which is that only about 2% of people are asking for more features, and also that only about 2% are looking for better marketing. Anyway, thought this worth bringing to people's attention, as we may find some value in it. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Can we revisit the thought of PostgreSQL 7.2.4?
Bruce Momjian wrote: Tom Lane wrote: PS: I'm not taking a position on Justin's suggestion that there should be a 7.2.4. Marc and Bruce would be the ones who have to do the work, so they get to make the decision... Who, us? Well, there is the confusion factor of releasing a patch to a superceeded major version. Wrapping it up and putting it out really isn't a big deal. Marc? Hi Marc, Would you be ok with us releasing a 7.2.4? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Survey results from the PostgreSQL portal page
Tom Lane wrote: Justin Clift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Dave Page put up a new survey on the PostgreSQL portal page very recently, " What would attract the most new PostgreSQL users?" and the results in already are interesting (1,529 results as this is being written): [snip] Now, we don't necessarily have a speed problem, as people who take the time to tune the database can attest to, so this is making me consider why such a large percentage of folk would vote for that. Interesting question. Too bad the survey didn't ask *what* they find slow. Hey, interesting point. Perhaps for the next survey, we should ask which part of PostgreSQL people feel needs the greatest speed increase? We just have to think of the best wording for it... :) Other interesting conclusions can be drawn from the results too, one of which is that only about 2% of people are asking for more features, and also that only about 2% are looking for better marketing. Of course, this is a survey of people who already know about Postgres, and are sufficiently interested in using it to have visited the website. So really, people who need to be marketed to weren't surveyed. The low vote for that point is probably just survey skew. Yep. It's a reasonably ad-hoc system, but it does provide some interesting aggregate feedback. It's nice that we receive a decent amount of votes over a short amount of time. Out of curiosity, any thoughts as to what other questions or topics might be good to be asked about? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift regards, tom lane -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Survey results from the PostgreSQL portal page
Michael Meskes wrote: On Sun, Jan 19, 2003 at 01:19:03PM -0500, Robert Treat wrote: pretty wide feature set (as good as any other open source rdbms afaik) plus it's open source, so if we don't have a feature that say oracle has, you can pay someone the $10,000+ the oracle license will cost to implement it. I've also not seen much FUD on the other issues either. If you can Unfortunately it doesn't always work this way. I knew one government organization that decided to go for Oracle for 500K Euro instead of adding the missing features (actually almost exclusively PITR). One of the top arguments I heard was: "I don't believe that free software community works. Once the developers get a social life or even kids, they stop working on software." Of course I told him that I still do work on free software despite having three sons on which he answered: "Maybe, but I still don't believe it." Sad but true. Interesting observation, and not entirely irrelevant. It's the strength of any particular Open Source Community that seems to indicate whether or not there are going to be enough people getting involved to overcome the attrition rate of the people becoming less involved. With PostgreSQL, a lot of work goes into building and feeding the community. That includes making sure the right people are talking to each other, assisting people to find the information they need, and other simpler stuff like making sure the basic facilities work (cvs, ftp, websites, etc). We are fortunate in that being based on a BSD license is assisting businesses to adopt PostgreSQL without needing to think too hard about licensing ramifications, and we are also fortunate that the quality of PostgreSQL is extremely good and has an increasingly excellent reputation that is attracting people from countries all over the world to get involved. When people suggest that the "Free Software Community" doesn't work, it may be worthwhile pointing out that it works very well for the Communities that are strong, but he could be correct for those that haven't become self-sufficient yet. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Michael -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Can we revisit the thought of PostgreSQL 7.2.4?
Josh Berkus wrote: Neil, Robert: "As for the "WAL recovery bug", AFAIK no such bug has been reported "in the last few days". Exactly what issue are you referring to?" That's my bug; I filed it on Wednesday. However, it is not 100%; that is: 1) While Tom and I are pretty sure that the issue *could* cause the behavior reported, we're not completely certain that it *did*; i.e. in the two reported cases, one actually turned out to be something else, and the other could possibly be something else as well. 2) Nobody has tested that switching the order of those 2 lines in 7.2.3 doesn't cause any problems, to date. I'm not saying that it's not potentially a patchable bug. We're just not ready to patch it yet. Ok, this might not be such an important fix after all then? The wording of it at the time did make it sound important, but if it somehow has bad interactions we would be shooting ourselves in the foot with it. Any guess-timates on it's safeness and whether it really would be beneficial? But I do vote for a 7.2.4 just because I can't upgrade a lot of my clients to 7.3.1 safely and there are a few easy patches for 7.2.3. Alternately, I would suggest an omnibus patch for the 7.2.3 source code so that we don't set a precedent for branching development. An interesting thought here is to know if Red Hat fixed *all* of the known PostgreSQL security flaws for 7.2.3 with their latest security release. It would be interesting to see their code if they did so, but from Tom's previous comments it would have meant a real lot of work. It's probably better to put out a 7.2.4 than an omnibus patch though, as it gives a better foundation for everyone working on 7.2.x to safely move to. From the viewpoint of "it takes more skill to patch than to compile". Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Prepare enabled pgbench
Hi Curtis, Have you had time to get this done? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Curtis Faith wrote: Tatsuo Ishii <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Thanks. I can commit it for 7.4. BTW, it would be nice if we could have a switch to turn on/off PREPARE/EXECUTE in pgbench so that we could see how PRPARE/EXECUTE could improve the performance... tom lane replies: That is a *must*. Otherwise, you've simply made an arbitrary change in the benchmark ... which is no benchmark at all. regards, tom lane I will add it as a switched option. It should be possible to keep most of the code common for the two cases. - Curtis ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
[HACKERS] C++ coding assistance request for a visualisation tool
Hi guys, Is there anyone here that's good with C++ and has a little bit of time to add PostgreSQL support to a project? There is a 4D visualisation program called Flounder: http://www.enel.ucalgary.ca/~vigmond/flounder/ And it does some pretty nifty stuff. It takes in data sets (x, y, z, time) and displays then graphically, saving them to image files if needed, and also creating the time sequences as animations if needed. Was looking at it from a "performance tuning tool" point of view. i.e. Testing PostgreSQL performance with a bunch of settings, then stuffing the results into a database, and then using something like Flounder for visualising it. It seems pretty simple, and Flounder seems like it might be the right kind of tool for doing things like this. Was emailing with Edward Vigmond, the author of it, and he seems to think it'd be pretty easy to implement too. Now, I'm not a C++ coder, and as short of time as anyone, so I was wondering if there is anyone here who'd be interested in helping out here. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] C++ coding assistance request for a visualisation tool
Greg Copeland wrote: Have you tried IBM's OSS visualization package yet? Sorry, I don't seem to recall the name of the tool off the top of my head (Data Explorer??) but it uses OpenGL (IIRC) and is said to be able to visualize just about anything. Anything is said to include simple data over time to complex medical CT scans. Cool. Just found it... IBM "Open Visualization Data Explorer": http://www.research.ibm.com/dx/ Going to check it out now. The screenshot looks *very* nice. ;-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Greg On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 12:19, Justin Clift wrote: Hi guys, Is there anyone here that's good with C++ and has a little bit of time to add PostgreSQL support to a project? There is a 4D visualisation program called Flounder: http://www.enel.ucalgary.ca/~vigmond/flounder/ And it does some pretty nifty stuff. It takes in data sets (x, y, z, time) and displays then graphically, saving them to image files if needed, and also creating the time sequences as animations if needed. Was looking at it from a "performance tuning tool" point of view. i.e. Testing PostgreSQL performance with a bunch of settings, then stuffing the results into a database, and then using something like Flounder for visualising it. It seems pretty simple, and Flounder seems like it might be the right kind of tool for doing things like this. Was emailing with Edward Vigmond, the author of it, and he seems to think it'd be pretty easy to implement too. Now, I'm not a C++ coder, and as short of time as anyone, so I was wondering if there is anyone here who'd be interested in helping out here. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] C++ coding assistance request for a visualisation tool
Justin Clift wrote: Greg Copeland wrote: Have you tried IBM's OSS visualization package yet? Sorry, I don't seem to recall the name of the tool off the top of my head (Data Explorer??) but it uses OpenGL (IIRC) and is said to be able to visualize just about anything. Anything is said to include simple data over time to complex medical CT scans. Cool. Just found it... IBM "Open Visualization Data Explorer": http://www.research.ibm.com/dx/ That seems to be a very outdated page for it. The new pages for it (in case anyone else is interested) are at: http://www.opendx.org :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Release Scheduales: 7.2.4 & 7.3.2
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Robert Treat wrote: On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 14:23, Marc G. Fournier wrote: If anyone has any 'last minute' issues they would like to see in either, please speak now or forever hold your peace :) Can someone post a "changelog" for these releases? Also what tags will be created/used in CVS? REL7_2_4 REL7_3_2 I'll make sure I don't forget to tag them this time :) Have we determined that Tom's patch (the one that Josh wrote up) is indeed necessary? ;-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
[HACKERS] Have a PG 7.3.1 Windows (cygwin) easy installer... now what to dowith it?
Hi everyone, Mark (mlw) put together a PostgreSQL installer for Windows (cygwin version) a little while ago, but he hasn't been responding to requests for feedback regarding it (probably busy). As we're going to be releasing a native Windows version of PostgreSQL 7.4 in a few months, it seems appropriate that we practise first to get the hang of making packages on Windows, plus encourage anyone with graphical talent to make attractive icon's for menu options, etc. Anyway, spent the last two days making a brand new "PostgreSQL 7.3.1 Proof of Concept for Windows Alpha 1" easy-installer (11,161KB) using a product called Inno Setup (very nice) and have a pretty good result. It looks and feels *really* professional, and if people didn't know that it was using cygwin, they'd probably never guess. Am reckoning that the best thing to do for this is to create a project on GBorg of some name, upload it, and everyone who is interested can take it from there. Does that sound like the best approach, and does anyone have good suggestions for a project name? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [CYGWIN] Have a PG 7.3.1 Windows (cygwin) easy installer... now
mlw wrote: Sorry, I think there was a misunderstanding. What were you looking for? Sorry Mark, I just thought you were busy. Was wondering if you were going to make a project of it somewhere, so we can get things together and have a really decent release for Windows when 7.4 comes out. :) I used inno setup as well. If you want I can send my install script. That would be really cool. :) How did you handle the user and "Log on as a service" aspects of it? :) I thought I was being very forth coming. Yep, you 100% have a really good attitude, that's why I thought you were busy. :) I even help out on the Windows PG console window. Took a look at it, and the three buttons seem permanently greyed out in the download from the WinMaster project. Wasn't sure if it was a configuration issue on my part, or if the code hadn't been fleshed out yet. Interested in making a project on GBorg or something for the "complete Windows installer" as a place to work out of? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Hannu Krosing wrote: Bruce Momjian kirjutas P, 26.01.2003 kell 05:07: Tom Lane wrote: Peter Eisentraut <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I don't see a strong reason not to stick with good old configure; make; make install. You're already requiring various Unix-like tools, so you might as well require the full shell environment. Indeed. I think the goal here is to have a port that *runs* in native Windows; but I see no reason not to require Cygwin for *building* it. Agreed. I don't mind Cygwin if we don't have licensing problems with distributing a Win32 binary that used Cygwin to build. I do have a problem with MKS toolkit, which is a commerical purchase. I would like to avoid reliance on that, though Jan said he needed their bash. IIRC mingw tools had win-native (cygwin-less) bash at http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/ Have been watching this ongoing conversation and am in two frames of mind about: + There are a lot of people on Win32 that are using MS Visual C or Visual Studio + There are a few fairly well established Win32 programming IDE's that are compatible with cygwin/mingw32 The advantages to having the Win32 port be natively compatible with Visual Studio is that it already is (no toolset-porting work needed there), but the disadvantage is that not just any Win32 user-with-an-interest can download it any try it out. So... that kind of excludes it somewhat (Universities/colleges might have a problem too). The advantages of having the Win32 port be natively compatible with gcc/cygwin/something is that once it's converted to that toolchain, it might be a lot less maintenance on us, as that's the toolset we use for the Unix builds. As a thought, the open source Dev-C++ IDE (Win32 and Linux) works with gcc/cygwin/mingw32 and is pretty popular. Just checked it's homepage on SourceForge (http://sourceforge.net/projects/dev-cpp/) and it's download figures are pretty large. Since March 2002 (less than 1 year ago), it's been downloaded about 120,000,000 times. Wow. 120 Million downloads in less than 1 year. That's a pretty popular IDE (16th most popular project on SourceForge) Anyway, as a thought, my vote would be to make the Win32 port work in with our toolchain or very similar (cygwin/mingw32/etc) if possible, so we don't have to rely on people having Visual C. In developing countries too, it's going to be much easier for people to get a hold of things like Dev-C++ into the future as well. Hope this provides a useful set of thoughts. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Justin Clift wrote: Since March 2002 (less than 1 year ago), it's been downloaded about 120,000,000 times. Wow. 120 Million downloads in less than 1 year. That's a pretty popular IDE (16th most popular project on SourceForge) Arrrgh. Thought that sounded a bit too high. Wrong column, it's actually only about 2 million times, not 120 million. Should probably get more sleep. ;-) Sorry about that guys. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [CYGWIN] Have a PG 7.3.1 Windows (cygwin) easy installer... now
Dave Page wrote: Hi Justin, Does it use the Microsoft Installer service so we can provide a merge module for embedded installations in other products as we do for psqlODBC? If not, I for one will probably end up redoing it all anyway :-( Hi Dave, It's an installation "setup.exe" type of thing, created using a product called Inno Setup. Spent about 20 minutes last night on an email to Mark (mlw) yesterday after analysing his Inno Setup script (he's got some good ideas in there), but Mozilla died when I hit send. Arrgh. It would be cool if we had a project on GBorg for it, so we can create and co-ordinate the "windows specific bits" that will be desirable to have for 7.4 when it's released. We can use 7.3.1 for the moment and practise with that. There's probably no real reason that people can't use the 7.3.1 version for smaller stuff in the real world (personal workstation database for development, etc). The package here also has the ODBC drivers in it, but doesn't include pgAdmin, nor Igor's WinMaster. It was originally assembled with both of them, but WinMaster didn't seem to really add anything (the package auto-installs as a service), and with pgAdmin I was having trouble getting it to register HighlightBox.ocx and use it once installed. :( No real stress there, as I'm really sure the pgAdmin team and yourself will be able to give pointers on how to make that work properly. :) Mark's version uses his custom built CygConsole program, based on Igor's WinMaster, and sounds like it has more functionality, but it doesn't install as a service. The target for the package here is that PostgreSQL gets installed and runs in the background unless it's explicitely disabled or de-installed. The package here also has a bunch of shortcuts in it to the websites. Will chuck it up on the techdocs site somewhere in a few minutes as a temporary home until we get the GBorg project up and running. Anyone have a good idea for the name of the project? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Regards, Dave. -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [CYGWIN] Have a PG 7.3.1 Windows (cygwin) easy installer... now
Dave Page wrote: No real stress there, as I'm really sure the pgAdmin team and yourself will be able to give pointers on how to make that work properly. :) > Step 1 is use an MSI compliant setup package. Ok, do you have any recommendations? Using M$ Visual isn't an option, but am willing to look at alternatives. > Step 2 is then extremely easy. There are a number of advantages to this including: 1) DLL conflicts are handled properly by the installer service. 2) Installations can be properly rolled back in case they fail. 3) Installation patches can be created. 4) The base package can be built as a merge module which can then be included in any other setup program for seamless integration, and a guaranteed correct installation. These sound like worthwhile things to cater for. Point 4 here is very important. If people want to include PostgreSQL in their application (which is surely what we want?), all they need do is include the merge module in their own setup. This is how pgAdmin installs psqlODBC. The stup builder doesn't need to know how PostgreSQL installs and therefore doesn't have to re-write his own version of the installer, and risk getting it wrong. It also means that the installer service can correctly handle the installation of a PostgreSQL-included package onto a system that already has PostgreSQL installed. Am curious as to whether packaging solutions other than MSI use merge modules. Any idea? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Regards, Dave. -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] urgent: db corruption - invalid TIDs?
Ned Lilly wrote: Has anyone seen this behavior? It's corrupted a production database. Hi Ned, Just as information filler, which version of PostgreSQL, and which operating system? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift ERROR: heap_mark4update: (am)invalid tid WARNING: Error occurred while executing PL/pgSQL function issuewomaterial WARNING: line 40 at SQL statement -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
[HACKERS] Has everyone else here seen the "new" Database Open Test Suite byIBM?
Hi everyone, Just came across a reference to a new Open Source database test suite by IBM that supports DB2, Oracle, Sybase, PostgreSQL, and MySQL: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3382&release_id=115190 It's part of the Linux Test Project and only supports Linux, but it looks useful. From it's "Overview" page: "Database Opensource Test Suite (DOTS) is a set of test cases designed for the purpose of stress testing and long run testing on database systems to measure database performance and reliability. It has two kinds of test cases - Basic Cases and Advanced Cases. The primary goal of Basic Cases is stress and long run database testing; the secondary goal is 100% JDBC API coverage. There are 8 test cases written in Java to cover JDBC API under the Basic Cases category. The goal of the Advanced Cases is modeling real-world business logic, stress and long run testing on database systems. There are 2 test cases written in Java under the Advanced Cases category." Looking at the configuration info for PostgreSQL, it has no changes from the default memory configuration settings, but that's probably because they don't know enough about PostgreSQL to be aware of the need for that. Thought it worth pointing out if case people here haven't yet come across it. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Justin Clift writes: The advantages to having the Win32 port be natively compatible with Visual Studio is that it already is (no toolset-porting work needed there), You're missing a couple of points here. First, the MS Visual whatever compiler can also be used with a makefile-driven build system. Second, the port as it stands isn't really compatible with anything except Jan's build instructions. There's a lot of work to be done before we get anything that builds out of the box in the 7.4 branch, and it's going to be a lot easier if we do it using the build system we already have and know. Thanks Peter. Really didn't know that MS Visual could work with makefile driven build systems, nor that the PeerDirect build process was so... unique. :) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
Curtis Faith wrote: > If people are deciding what open-source database server they want to use, Linux or FreeBSD is the obvious choice for the server OS. The kind of people who are inclined to use PostgreSQL or MySQL will mostly NOT be considering Windows servers. For another perspective, we've been getting a few requests per day through the PostgreSQL Advocacy and Marketing site's request form along the lines of: "Is there a license fee for using PostgreSQL? We'd like to distribute it with our XYZ product that needs a database." Probably about 4 or so per day like this at present. A lot of the people sending these emails appear to have windows based products that need a database, and have heard of PostgreSQL being a database that they don't need to pay license fee's for. They've kind of missed the point of Open Source from the purist point of view, but it's still working for them. ;-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [pgsql-advocacy] Linux.conf.au 2003 Report
Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: We found out all sorts of interesting places that PostgreSQL is being used: a large Australian Telco, several restaurants in the Perth area, the Debian inventory system and the Katie revision control system. It is also being evaluated for process control analysis at a steel plant. Maybe we should chase some people for case studies? Definitely. Forgot to mention this before, but my gf (Carol Ioanni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) is taking the next couple of weeks to assist us pretty much "full time" as thankfully she has some spare time on her hands for a bit. :) She's been pointed towards our urgent need for Case Studies and has already begun working with a couple of places to assist them in getting them done. We have a "standard waiver" that places need to sign so we're legally in the clear, and a *very* professionally created Case Study Worksheet (donated by Sales.Org for the use of all Free / Open Source Software projects) that places work through and which gives us a very presentable result. Carol should be a real expert at making Case Studies pretty soon now is my guess, as that's all she's going to be doing. ;-) If people could ask the places they have contact with, and whom are using PostgreSQL in significant ways, if they'd be happy to be a reference PostgreSQL Case Study, that would be great. Some places might ask what's in it for them (it's been happening now and again), and pretty much we can tangibly say they'll be included in the PostgreSQL Advocacy and Marketing site's "Case Studies" section, and we'll be making downloadable PDF's of the Case Studies as well so that people can distribute them as needed (i.e. to their CIOs/CEOs/CTOs/etc). For all places that are happy to get involved in this way, please email Carol directly and bring her into the conversation so that we can get them using the same Case Study Worksheet, get the waiver signed, and start grouping and placing the Case Studies appropriately in the Case Studies section. For further background info, the present page views per day of the Advocacy and Marketing site from when the new PostgreSQL portal page went live (broken into week long groupings) are: 5/Jan/03: 2203: +++ 6/Jan/03: 3983: +++ 7/Jan/03: 4493: ++ 8/Jan/03: 4889: + 9/Jan/03: 4364: ++ 10/Jan/03: 3513: 11/Jan/03: 2112: +++ 12/Jan/03: 2735: +++ 13/Jan/03: 4405: ++ 14/Jan/03: 4226: + 15/Jan/03: 3752: ++ 16/Jan/03: 3467: 17/Jan/03: 3808: ++ 18/Jan/03: 1932: + 19/Jan/03: 1777: 20/Jan/03: 3641: + 21/Jan/03: 4025: +++ 22/Jan/03: 3643: + 23/Jan/03: 3310: +++ 24/Jan/03: 4242: + 25/Jan/03: 2749: +++ 26/Jan/03: 2834: +++ 27/Jan/03: 4010: +++ 28/Jan/03: 4081: Not huge, but not bad for the first version of the site either. Since the Advocacy and Marketing site isn't very large, it means the case studies added there generally do get looked at. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Chris Kings-Lynne -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
Katie Ward wrote: The latest build is still: ftp://209.61.187.152/postgres/postgres_beta4.zip This is not exactly what Jan submitted, and the catalog number is slightly different, but it should do for testing. In case anyone's interested, there are step by step installation instructions for it at: http://techdocs.postgresql.org/guides/InstallingOnWindows ;-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Katie -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
[HACKERS] A call for PostreSQL Case Study participants
Hi everyone, This is a call for PostgreSQL Case Study participants. We're looking for volunteers running PostgreSQL in their companies, or who have good contact with companies running PostgreSQL, to please assist us in creating a large number of good quality, reference PostgreSQL Case Studies. Carol Ioanni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> will be assisting the PostgreSQL Global Development Group for the next few weeks by working with businesses who volunteer to be a part of this PostgreSQL initiative. We really need everyone to get the go-ahead from the appropriate people in their companies or clients, and then email Carol so she can begin the PostgreSQL Case Study creation process with them. It's fairly simple, just a matter of filling out a detailed worksheet with information about why PostgreSQL was chosen, and a few simple details about the implementation, plus signing a waiver to legally let us use the information. These PostgreSQL Case Studies will be profiled on the PostgreSQL Advocacy and Marketing website, with links where appropriate to the participating organisations, or their referenced product pages: http://advocacy.postgresql.org/casestudies We feel we need enough PostgreSQL Case Studies to categorise them by industry segment (i.e. finance, agricultural, telecommunications) and also by the size of the enterprises themselves (i.e. small business, medium enterprise, etc). Hoping you can help us out. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
Jeff Davis wrote: What about it? Someone claimed in this thread that MySQL's Windows port requires Cygwin. Is that true or not? It's been a while, but I know I've installed MySQL on windows without any separate step of installing Cygwin (I can't say 100% for sure that it didn't install some part of Cygwin transparently to me). From the MySQL site's page about MySQL vs PostgreSQL: http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/MySQL-PostgreSQL_features.html "MySQL Server works better on Windows than PostgreSQL does. MySQL Server runs as a native Windows application (a service on NT/2000/XP), while PostgreSQL is run under the Cygwin emulation." That seems pretty straightforward. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Regards, Jeff Davis -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
Christopher Browne wrote: From the MySQL site's page about MySQL vs PostgreSQL: http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/MySQL-PostgreSQL_features.html "MySQL Server works better on Windows than PostgreSQL does. MySQL Server runs as a native Windows application (a service on NT/2000/XP), while PostgreSQL is run under the Cygwin emulation." That seems pretty straightforward. But it's not /nearly/ that straightforward. If you look at the downloads that MySQL AB provides, they point you to a link that says "Windows binaries use the Cygwin library." Which apparently means that this "feature" is not actually a feature. Unlike PostgreSQL, which "is run under the Cygwin emulation," MySQL runs as a native Windows application (with Cygwin emulation). Apparently those are not at all the same thing, even though they are both using Cygwin... Hmm... wonder if they're meaning that MySQL compiles and executes as a True native windows application (skipping any unix compatibility calls), and it's just some of the support utils that use cygwin, or if they're trying to say that PostgreSQL has to operate entirely in the cygwin environment, whereas they don't? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
James Hubbard wrote: I open my mouth and insert foot: Where do I get any of these scientific tests to determine if the latest and greatest 7.3.x will not fall down on my favorite Unix? For Open Source benchmarks, there is: Open Source Database Benchmark: http://osdb.sf.net With this, you *want* to use the latest CVS version, as that can generate it's own datasets of any size. The older, released versions couldn't and you had to download databases of limited size. Database Opensource Test Suite: http://ltp.sourceforge.net/dotshowto.php This works with DB2, Oracle, Sybase, MySQL, and PostgreSQL, and looks to have been developed by IBM. Haven't yet used this, but did notice that the configuration instructions make no reference to upping the memory buffers. i.e. all of the tests they've done were probably with the defaults (yuck!) Emailed this group yesterday asking if they're open to suggestions for improvement, and they said they definitely are. If anyone has specific they'd like to let them know, they do seem open to it. A commercial solution that people often mention is Benchmark Factory: http://www.benchmarkfactory.com Haven't personally used it, although it's apparently the software that Great Bridge used for all of their testing. Hope this helps. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift James Hubbard -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Odd website behavior...
Dave Page wrote: Justin? We can write a techdocs styled search/results page quite easily if you like that will use the same database, and filter to techdocs only if that's preferred. It would be nice to get rid of Google. Agreed. It would be better to have Dave improved search engine do it. Are you guys fine with ripping out the Google one and putting the new one in? There is no chance I'm going to have time to do much in the way of assisting at the moment. :( Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Regards, Dave. -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System - My final thoughts
Bruce Momjian wrote: So, as far as I am concerned, we will have a Win32 port in 7.4. It will not be perfect, but it will be as good as we can do. We are also getting point-in-time recovery in 7.4, so that may help us with Win32 port failures too. If anyone's interested, the "PostgreSQL 7.3.1 Proof of Concept for Windows Alpha 1" (yes the warnings are even built into the name) easy-installer that I whipped up using Inno Setup was quietly uploaded to the pgsql project on Sourceforge the other night. It's using PostgreSQL + cygwin, pretty much stock standard but pre-installed and wrapped up into a single installable. As an indicater, having made no release annoucement, and only having put a one paragraph small mention with a link to it on the Techdocs "Installing On Windows" page (with warnings), over 1,600 people downloaded it in the first 24 hours (that's about 17.1 GB of bandwidth). This was just a version so that I could practise some windows packaging and see what kind of things we'd need to address. Dave has already pointed out that we're probably going to need to do this so it can be made into a "Merge Module" and other things. A couple of bits of interest turned up whilst packaging: + There are unix command line tools that PostgreSQL relies on. For example, when running initdb, it errors out if some tools aren't present. i.e. sed, grep, ash (cygwin's "/bin/sh"), and from memory a few others + GPL licensing issues. Am trying to get my head around the implications - with regards to licensing - if we released a proper version with some of the cygwin tools included... i.e. grep, sed, etc. Don't think that places could use it embedded with their products and not at least have source available, but still haven't totally grokked this all completely yet. Not going to commit any code to the GBorg project that was setup the other day until this is sorted out. PostgreSQL 7.4 on Win32 should be properly BSD too. + Aside from all this, it might be nice to have a few Win32 specific gui pieces in place at the time that PostgreSQL 7.4 Win32 is released. Am sure they'll develop over time, but was thinking we should at least make a good impression with the first release. Hey, if we make a really bad impression with the first release, then there might not be the quadruple-zillion Windows PG users after all. If that sounds like a good idea, maybe adding the GUC variables "random_query_delay" (minutes), "crash_how_often" (seconds), and "reboot_plus_corrupt_please" (true/false)? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
Curt Sampson wrote: > What I'm hearing here is that all we really need to do to "compete" with > MySQL on Windows is to make the UI a bit slicker. So what's the problem > with someone building, for each release, a set of appropriate binaries, and > someone making a slick install program that will install postgres, > install parts of cygwin if necessary, and set up postgres as a service? The non-code related parts of the Win32 port of PostgreSQL that are being looked at: + Working on the packaging bits (slick install program) already. Have created a project - pgsqlwin - on GBorg to hold any specific bits we need. http://gborg.postgresql.org/project/pgsqlwin/projdisplay.php First release of the *extremely alpha* "Proof of Concept" version is at: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/pgsql/PgSQL731wina1.exe?download + Concerned about including GPL stuff without having 100% totally investigated the ramifications for people including the Win32 version of PostgreSQL as a built-in part of their applications. Not going to commit anything even slightly GPL related to that GBorg project until it 100% safe to do so without affect our ability to release it as BSD. Have some preliminary information regarding this, but just need to wrap my head around it properly. Not going to look at it closely for another week or so. + It would be greatly helpful to have some way for the install program to automatically add the "Log in as a service" Win32 priviledge to the "postgres" user without having to instruct the user to do so. We can create the user automatically through a shell command, but no idea how to add that permission. If someone could do some Win32 API stuff to do it behind the scenes without a shell command even, that would be great. + The WinMaster project is a first go at creating a Win32 GUI command console for controlling the PostgreSQL service. It's still a bit too basic for real use though: http://gborg.postgresql.org/project/winmaster/projdisplay.php Further suggestions, volunteers, etc are totally welcome. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift > cjs -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System - My final thoughts
Bruce Momjian wrote: Justin Clift wrote: + Aside from all this, it might be nice to have a few Win32 specific gui pieces in place at the time that PostgreSQL 7.4 Win32 is released. Am sure they'll develop over time, but was thinking we should at least make a good impression with the first release. Hey, if we make a really bad impression with the first release, then there might not be the quadruple-zillion Windows PG users after all. If that sounds like a good idea, maybe adding the GUC variables "random_query_delay" (minutes), "crash_how_often" (seconds), and "reboot_plus_corrupt_please" (true/false)? What we need is for the backend to query postgresql.org to set those parameters, so we can control how many Win32 users adopt PostgreSQL. :-) "All your [data] base belong to us" ? ;-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Last call for 7.3.2
Tom Lane wrote: The plan for 7.3.2 release is for Marc to wrap the tarball tomorrow and announce on Tuesday. I have already stamped the version number and updated the release history in CVS, but is there anyone out there with last-minute fixes? In particular, is there anything that needs to be done to update the pre-built documentation that will go into the tarball? I'm still quite unclear on what our build process for that is ... Alex Avriette (CC'd) mentioned yesterday that he's generated patches to make sure 7.3.x works on IRIX, as presently it won't compile with gcc. Have prodded him to submit them _now_ for review if possible. If not, then heck, we tried. :) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift regards, tom lane -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Interactive Documentation - how do you want it towork?
Bruce Momjian wrote: > I looked at that URL, and it is good example of what _not_ to do with > interactive docs, IMHO. The manual page is _very_ short, and shows no > examples. The comments have various examples/cases, with corrections > later to earlier postings. I would think this is not what we want. We > want a longer manual page, with _correct_ examples that show typical > usage. > > I know folks like those comments, but isn't it showing cases where the > curt documentation just doesn't cut it? Bruce is spot on here. Manuals pages that don't need an extensive amount of comments are likely the best way to go, and they're even distributed with the source code of PostgreSQL, unlike the comments. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL, NetBSD and NFS
James Hubbard wrote: Justin Clift wrote: Hmmm... does anyone remember the name of that NFS testing tool the FreeBSD guys were using? Think it came from Apple. They used it to find and isolate bugs in the FreeBSD code a while ago. Sounds like it might be useful here. :-) You can find a write about it here: http://kerneltrap.org/node.php?id=327 The actual link to the source http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/tools/regression/fsx/ Thanks James. That's definitely the one. D'Arcy, if you want to test if your NFS layer is stable, this might really help. It's a single C file that get compiled, and you run it against a remote NFS file. This is supposed to be one of those tools that will try to trip up the NFS layer in every possible way, without violating the spec, etc. Hope this is useful. :) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift James -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL, NetBSD and NFS
Tom Lane wrote: Hoo boy. I was already suspecting data corruption in the index, and this looks like more of the same. My thoughts are definitely straying in the direction of "the NFS server is dropping bits, somehow". Both this and the (admittedly unproven) bt_moveright loop suggest corrupted values in the cross-page links that exist at the very end of each btree index page. I wonder if it is possible that, every so often, you are losing just the last few bytes of an NFS transfer? Hmmm... does anyone remember the name of that NFS testing tool the FreeBSD guys were using? Think it came from Apple. They used it to find and isolate bugs in the FreeBSD code a while ago. Sounds like it might be useful here. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift regards, tom lane -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Changing the default configuration (was Re: [pgsql-advocacy]
Tom Lane wrote: What I would really like to do is set the default shared_buffers to 1000. That would be 8 meg worth of shared buffer space. Coupled with more-realistic settings for FSM size, we'd probably be talking a shared memory request approaching 16 meg. This is not enough RAM to bother any modern machine from a performance standpoint, but there are probably quite a few platforms out there that would need an increase in their stock SHMMAX kernel setting before they'd take it. Totally agree with this. We really, really, really, really need to get the default to a point where we have _decent_ default performance. The alternative approach is to leave the settings where they are, and to try to put more emphasis in the documentation on the fact that the factory-default settings produce a toy configuration that you *must* adjust upward for decent performance. But we've not had a lot of success spreading that word, I think. With SHMMMAX too small, you do at least get a pretty specific error message telling you so. Comments? Yep. Here's an *unfortunately very common* scenario, that again unfortunately, a _seemingly large_ amount of people fall for. a) Someone decides to "benchmark" database XYZ vs PostgreSQL vs other databases b) Said benchmarking person knows very little about PostgreSQL, so they install the RPM's, packages, or whatever, and "it works". Then they run whatever benchmark they've downloaded, or designed, or whatever c) PostgreSQL, being practically unconfigured, runs at the pace of a slow, mostly-disabled snail. d) Said benchmarking person gets better performance from the other databases (also set to their default settings) and thinks "PostgreSQL has lots of features, and it's free, but it's Too Slow". Yes, this kind of testing shouldn't even _pretend_ to have any real world credibility. e) Said benchmarking person tells everyone they know, _and_ everyone they meet about their results. Some of them even create nice looking or profesional looking web pages about it. f) People who know even _less_ than the benchmarking person hear about the test, or read the result, and don't know any better than to believe it at face value. So, they install whatever system was recommended. g) Over time, the benchmarking person gets the hang of their chosen database more and writes further articles about it, and doesn't generally look any further afield than it for say... a couple of years. By this time, they've already influenced a couple of thousand people in the non-optimal direction. h) Arrgh. With better defaults, our next release would _appear_ to be a lot faster to quite a few people, just because they have no idea about tuning. So, as sad as this scenario is, better defaults will probably encourage a lot more newbies to get involved, and that'll eventually translate into a lot more experienced users, and a few more coders to assist. ;-) Personally I'd be a bunch happier if we set the buffers so high that we definitely have decent performance, and the people that want to run PostgreSQL are forced to make the choice of either: 1) Adjust their system settings to allow PostgreSQL to run properly, or 2) Manually adjust the PostgreSQL settings to run memory-constrained This way, PostgreSQL either runs decently, or they are _aware_ that they're limiting it. That should cut down on the false benchmarks (hopefully). :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift regards, tom lane -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Changing the default configuration (was Re: [pgsql-advocacy]
Josh Berkus wrote: Tom, Justin, What if we supplied several sample .conf files, and let the user choose which to copy into the database directory? We could have a "high read performance" profile, and a "transaction database" profile, and a "workstation" profile, and a "low impact" profile. We could even supply a Perl script that would adjust SHMMAX and SHMMALL on platforms where this can be done from the command line. This might have value as the next step in the process of: a) Are we going to have better defaults? or b) Let's stick with the current approach. If we decide to go with better (changed) defaults, we may also be able to figure out a way of having profiles that could optionally be chosen from. As a longer term thought, it would be nice if the profiles weren't just hard-coded example files, but more of: pg_autotune --setprofile=xxx Or similar utility, and it did all the work. Named profiles being one capability, and other tuning measurements (i.e. cpu costings, disk performance profiles, etc) being the others. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Changing the default configuration (was Re: [pgsql-advocacy]
Tom Lane wrote: Uh ... do we have a basis for recommending any particular sets of parameters for these different scenarios? This could be a good idea in the abstract, but I'm not sure I know enough to fill in the details. A lower-tech way to accomplish the same result is to document these alternatives in postgresql.conf comments and encourage people to review that file, as Steve Crawford just suggested. But first we need the raw knowledge. Without too much hacking around, you could pretty easily adapt the pg_autotune code to do proper profiles of a system with different settings. i.e. increment one setting at a time, run pgbench on it with some decent amount of transactions and users, stuff the results into a different database. Aggregate data over time kind of thing. Let it run for a week, etc. If it's helpful, there's a 100% spare Althon 1.6Ghz box around with (choose your OS) + Adaptec 29160 + 512MB RAM + 2 x 9GB Seagate Cheetah 10k rpm drives hanging around. No stress to set that up and let it run any long terms tests you'd like plus send back results. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift regards, tom lane -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Brain dump: btree collapsing
Tom Lane wrote: The deletion procedure could be triggered immediately upon removal of the last item in a page, or when the next VACUUM scan finds an empty page. Not sure yet which way is better. Having it triggered immediately upon removal of the last item in a page would make for a more "self maintaining" system wouldn't it? That sounds nice. :) In theory, if we find recyclable page(s) at the physical end of the index, we could truncate the file (ie, give the space back to the filesystem) instead of reporting these pages to FSM. I am not sure if this is worth doing --- in most cases it's likely that little space can be released this way, and there may be some tricky locking issues. Sounds like this would be beneficial for environments with high update/delete transaction volumes, perhaps on smaller amounts of live/valid data. This could be ignored in first implementation (there's always REINDEX). Later, possibly handle it via Lanin&Shasha's notion of a critic (think VACUUM) that sets a fast pointer to the current effective root level. (Actually I think we wouldn't need a separate critic process; split and delete steps could be programmed to update the fast pointer for themselves, in a separate atomic action, when they split a one-page level or delete the next-to-last page of a level.) This really sounds like good initial thoughts too. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: [HACKERS] Changing the default configuration (was Re:
Hi everyone, Just looked on the IBM website for info relating to shared memory and IPC limits in AIX, and found a few useful-looking documents: The Interprocess Communication (IPC) Overview http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=0&context=SWG10&q=shmget&uid=aix15f11dd1d98f3551f85256816006a001d&loc=en_US&cs=utf-8&cc=us&lang=en#1.1 "This document defines the interprocess communication (IPC) and is applicable to AIX versions 3.2.x and 4.x." Lots of the stuff here is very intro-level, but some still looks useful. vmtune Parameters http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=0&context=SWG10&q=shmget&uid=aix16934e2f123d4ab3785256816006a0252&loc=en_US&cs=utf-8&cc=us&lang=en "This document discusses the vmtune command used to modify the Virtual Memory Manager (VMM) parameters that control the behavior of the memory management subsystem. This information applies to AIX Versions 4.x." And an obscure reference to the AIX shmget(2) manpage says that there is a non-tunable maximum shared-memory segment size of 256MB: http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/packages/mcidas/780/mcx/workstation.html#aix Hope some of this is useful. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Real-world usage example
Bruce Badger wrote: There have been a number of people comment on how PostgreSQL performs as a StORE repository - some good comments, some not so good. Either way, given the varied use of StORE, the feedback may yield valuable information. The place to look for feedback from StORE users is the news group comp.lang.smalltalk. For example: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=postgres+group:comp.lang.smalltalk&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d I hope this is useful. Yep, it definitely is. We're looking for places to be PostgreSQL Case Studies at present, so it's probably worth Carol Ioanni (CC'd, she's becoming our "Case Study Expert") to join that mailing list and ask there. Thanks heaps Bruce. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift All the best, Bruce BTW, I wrote the PostgreSQL driver for VisualWorks Smalltalk which is how all StORE + PostgreSQL users access their databases. -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] request for sql3 compliance for the update command
Tom Lane wrote: Dave Cramer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Ok, if a patch were submitted to the parser to allow the syntax in question would it be considered? I would vote against it ... but that's only one vote. As a thought, will it add significant maintenance penalties or be detrimental? There seem to be quite a lot of Informix people moving to PostgreSQL these days, moreso than Oracle shops. Might have been brought on by IBM's purchase of Informix. Wondering if this one change be a significant improvement in regards to making it easier to migrate, or just a minor thing? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift regards, tom lane -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] Open Source Development Lab resources
Hi guys, Had an interesting conversation earlier on today with Timothy Witham from the Open Source Development Lab (important place sponsored by IBM, HP, CA, etc) earlier on today. They've been basing their database performance suites on SAPDB, but are having problems with it and looking to move to a better database. This is an opportunity for us to get a lot of corporate-acceptable testing and similar done, if there are a few people willing to help out. Am very much interested in people's thoughts on this, and especially hoping that some people are willing to get together and get the needed bits done. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift *** Original Message Subject: Re: OSDLabs and PostgreSQL Date: 19 Feb 2003 14:18:30 -0800 From: Timothy D. Witham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Organization: Open Source Development Lab, Inc. To: Justin Clift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Further thoughts, I think that we have hit a wall with our progress with SAPDB on the performance front. If you would check out the performance pages on the three database tests. These are fair use subsets of the TPC W,C and H benchmarks and they are open source. (www.osdl.org/projects/performance) I will be blunt with you. If we had somebody who was willing to: 1) Work on getting the kits ported over. 2) Work on performance issues we discovered 3) Work on enhancements that would help in both the real world and these tests I would be willing to move all of our work over to that RDBMS. Our goal is to make the overall infrastructure better and I think that we could do that working with just one database but we have to get the support from those database developers. Tim *** Randal L. Schwartz wrote: FYI... I recently attended a presentation by the director of the Open Source Development Lab (www.osdl.org). Apparently they have two things that are useful to open-source database developers: a) some ongoing work to make nice database test suites for benchmarking b) lots of hardware available for *free* for testing All you have to do is sign up. I'm about five minutes from the site, so if there's anything that needs to be done physically there, I'm game. But generally, it's all handled remote anyway. Did I say they have lots of hardware? Big disk arrays. 2-way, up to 32-way(!) processor setups. Fast pipes to the net. Did I say free? As long as you're working on open source stuff, you can take a number. Neat. -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] ILIKE
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Tom Lane writes: My feeling too. Whatever you may think of its usefulness, it's been a documented feature since 7.1. It's a bit late to reconsider. It's never too late for new users to reconsider. It's also never too late to change your application of performance is not satisfactory. Well, ILIKE has been a feature for quite some time and the amount of negative feedback we've been receiving about upgrade problems makes me feel that _removing_ it would be detrimental. (i.e. broken applications) As an alternative to _removing_ it, would a feasible idea be to transparently alias it to something else, say a specific type of regex query or something? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] ILIKE
Vince Vielhaber wrote: Why screw with it for the sake of screwing with it? Hmmm, good point. "If it aint broke" ? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Vince. -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Yet another open-source benchmark
Tom Lane wrote: OSDL has just come out with a set of open-source database benchmarks: http://www.osdl.org/projects/performance/ The bad news: "This tool kit works with SAP DB open source database versions 7.3.0.23 or 7.3.0.25." (In fact, they seem to think they are testing kernel performance, not database performance, which strikes me as rather bizarre. But anyway.) The good news: "We are planning to port this test kit to other databases." Perhaps someone around here should help out... Yep, this is the group that have hit a performance limit with SAPDB and are 100% definitely looking to move it to PostgreSQL, *if* they can get people to assist them. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Who puts the Windows binaries on the FTP server?
Marc G. Fournier wrote: Justin put them up, but I believe that any bug reports for them should be sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Yep, that's the first "Proof of Concept" build, and it *prominently* has a message at the start of the installation that says to email me with any problems about it. I'm open to suggestions for making a more visible way for people to know how to contact us, if needed. :) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote: There are Windows binaries on the PostgreSQL FTP server mirrors, for example, http://ftp.de.postgresql.org/mirror/postgresql/binary/v7.3.1/Windows/ that users are having problems with. Apparently there is no name or address of any creator available. So who did this and would like to fix the packaging? -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
[HACKERS] ETA for PostgreSQL 7.3.3?
Hi guys, Feels like we've been isolating a whole bunch of bugs in 7.3.2 recently, some of which are causing crashes out in the real world. Wondering when we feel it'd be good to start assembling a 7.3.3? I'm thinking in about two weeks or so, to give a bit more time to catch bugs and stuff. Any thoughts/suggestions? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] ETA for PostgreSQL 7.3.3?
Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: Feels like we've been isolating a whole bunch of bugs in 7.3.2 recently, some of which are causing crashes out in the real world. Wondering when we feel it'd be good to start assembling a 7.3.3? I'm thinking in about two weeks or so, to give a bit more time to catch bugs and stuff. I really should fix this rowtype problem for 7.3.3 - here's hoping I find some time... Agreed. I wish "time" could be purchased in bottles. Reckon we could all get together and put in wholesale orders! :) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Chris -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
[HACKERS] Postgresql.org site outage
Hi everyone, Just received notification the server hosting the postgresql.org websites suffered a catastrophic failure a few hours ago. The admin guys are working to fix it, but it could take at least another 8 hours (no guarantee's here). No more detailed info at present, but will keep everyone posted as things progress. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Who puts the Windows binaries on the FTP server?
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Justin Clift writes: > Yep, that's the first "Proof of Concept" build, and it *prominently* has a message at the start of the installation that says to email me with any problems about it. Maybe a so-called "Proof of Concept" build could be put into an area on the FTP server that conveys that fact in the directory names (like "test" or "contrib" or whatever). Because those who need a more production-grade build will likely confuse this. That's probably not a bad idea. It has warnings *all over it* (main window title, big warning messages during the install, etc), but we know from experience that some people don't read anything and just click the Next button until things finish. Marc, what do you feel? How about a "testing" or "development" or similar base directory on the website to put testing releases? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Who puts the Windows binaries on the FTP server?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about putting a README file in that directory as well, giving out the same warnings and contact information that appears upon install? Thanks Greg, excellent suggestion. Just added it to my personal ToDo list. :) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift - -- Greg Sabino Mullane [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200303061015 -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
[HACKERS] OT: The first "GCC Developers Summit"
Hi everyone, Just came across the website for the first "GCC Developers Summit", to be held May 25-27, 2003. http://www.gccsummit.org/2003/ Might be of interest to some people here. :) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
[HACKERS] Adding column comment to information_schema.columns
Hi all,
Not sure how worthwhile others will find this small patch (to CVS HEAD),
but we found it useful. It adds the column comments to the
information_schema.columns view.
Hope it's useful.
:-)
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
*** information_schema.sql.orig 2004-07-01 11:59:26.0 +1000
--- information_schema.sql 2004-07-01 12:33:01.0 +1000
***
*** 442,448
CAST(null AS cardinal_number) AS maximum_cardinality,
CAST(a.attnum AS sql_identifier) AS dtd_identifier,
!CAST('NO' AS character_data) AS is_self_referencing
FROM (pg_attribute a LEFT JOIN pg_attrdef ad ON attrelid = adrelid AND attnum =
adnum),
pg_class c, pg_namespace nc, pg_user u,
--- 442,450
CAST(null AS cardinal_number) AS maximum_cardinality,
CAST(a.attnum AS sql_identifier) AS dtd_identifier,
!CAST('NO' AS character_data) AS is_self_referencing,
!
!col_description(a.attrelid, a.attnum) AS column_comment
FROM (pg_attribute a LEFT JOIN pg_attrdef ad ON attrelid = adrelid AND attnum =
adnum),
pg_class c, pg_namespace nc, pg_user u,
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] Adding column comment to information_schema.columns
Tom Lane wrote: Justin Clift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Not sure how worthwhile others will find this small patch (to CVS HEAD), but we found it useful. It adds the column comments to the information_schema.columns view. This question has been touched on before, but I guess it's time to face it fair and square: is it reasonable for an SQL implementation to add implementation-specific columns to an information_schema view? One could certainly argue that the entire point of information_schema is to be *standard*, not more, not less. OTOH I do not know if adding an extra column is likely to break anyone's application. Comments? Well, I suppose it reduces application portability if anyone starts relying on it. ? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
[HACKERS] Bug with view definitions?
Hi guys, Not sure if this is a known issue or not, but I think I may have found a bug with the way view definitions are shown... at least in psql. Using 7.5 development CVS (as of a few hours ago) or even 7.4.3, if I connect using it's version of psql to a database (of the same version), then use psql to view the information_schema.constraint_columns_usage view, it gives me this definition: *** mydb=# \d information_schema.constraint_column_usage View "information_schema.constraint_column_usage" Column | Type| Modifiers +---+--- table_catalog | information_schema.sql_identifier | table_schema | information_schema.sql_identifier | table_name | information_schema.sql_identifier | column_name| information_schema.sql_identifier | constraint_catalog | information_schema.sql_identifier | constraint_schema | information_schema.sql_identifier | constraint_name| information_schema.sql_identifier | View definition: SELECT current_database()::information_schema.sql_identifier AS table_catalog, x.tblschema::information_schema.sql_identifier AS table_schema, x.tblname::information_schema.sql_identifier AS table_name, x.colname::information_schema.sql_identifier AS column_name, current_database()::information_schema.sql_identifier AS constraint_catalog, x.cstrschema::information_schema.sql_identifier AS constraint_schema, x.cstrname::information_schema.sql_identifier AS constraint_name FROM ( SELECT DISTINCT nr.nspname, r.relname, r.relowner, a.attname, nc.nspname, c.conname FROM pg_namespace nr, pg_class r, pg_attribute a, pg_depend d, pg_namespace nc, pg_constraint c WHERE nr.oid = r.relnamespace AND r.oid = a.attrelid AND d.refclassid = 'pg_class'::regclass::oid AND d.refobjid = r.oid AND d.refobjsubid = a.attnum AND d.classid = 'pg_constraint'::regclass::oid AND d.objid = c.oid AND c.connamespace = nc.oid AND c.contype = 'c'::"char" AND r.relkind = 'r'::"char" AND NOT a.attisdropped ORDER BY nr.nspname, r.relname, r.relowner, a.attname, nc.nspname, c.conname UNION ALL SELECT nr.nspname, r.relname, r.relowner, a.attname, nc.nspname, c.conname FROM pg_namespace nr, pg_class r, pg_attribute a, pg_namespace nc, pg_constraint c, information_schema._pg_keypositions() pos(n) WHERE nr.oid = r.relnamespace AND r.oid = a.attrelid AND nc.oid = c.connamespace AND CASE WHEN c.contype = 'f'::"char" THEN r.oid = c.confrelid AND c.confkey[pos.n] = a.attnum ELSE r.oid = c.conrelid AND c.conkey[pos.n] = a.attnum END AND NOT a.attisdropped AND (c.contype = 'p'::"char" OR c.contype = 'u'::"char" OR c.contype = 'f'::"char") AND r.relkind = 'r'::"char") x(tblschema, tblname, tblowner, colname, cstrschema, cstrname), pg_user u WHERE x.tblowner = u.usesysid AND u.usename = "current_user"(); mydb=# *** However, when I use this definition (cut-n-paste style to avoid mistakes) to create the view anew (even with a different name, etc), then it gives me an error: *** mydb=# \e ERROR: parse error at or near "ALL" at character 1105 ERROR: parse error at or near "ALL" at character 1105 LINE 6: UNION ALL ^ mydb=# *** I haven't come across this before, and am having the same problem with pgAdmin3 as well, as it supplies the exact same definition of the view. I think I'm doing everything right here, could this be a bug with PG? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Bug with view definitions?
Dennis Bjorklund wrote: I've still not checked any code. I don't even know what part of pg it is that produce that bad SQL. The view itself works, so it must be the pretty printer that is broken (where ever that is hidden away in the code). Thanks Dennis. So, it's definitely a bug then. I wasn't sure if it was PG or me. :) Um, as I'm not up to the task of fixing it, is this something you or someone else would be interested in? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] Adding column comment to information_schema.columns
Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: There is a huge difference between adhering to a standard and limiting yourself to a standard. The real question is whether PostgreSQL's goal is to support SQL standards, or whether PostgreSQL's goal is to give PostgreSQL users a useful set of tools. There are literally _hundreds_ of fields we could add to the information_schema. Either we add them all or we add none of them. Well, if we add them (and they would be very useful I reckon) should we ensure there's an obvious PG naming thing happening? i.e. pg_column_comment or similar? Maybe not "pg_" but you know what I mean. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Chris ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Bug with view definitions?
Tom Lane wrote: Actually, if you look at the source code (information_schema.sql) there is no ORDER BY in it, only a DISTINCT. The ORDER BY gets added by the parser to help implement the DISTINCT. Sooner or later we should look at suppressing the added ORDER BY when displaying the view. If someone fixes this can we make sure it goes into 7.4.4 as well (if it's not a drastic code change)? It's not a data corrupting bug but it's stopping view definitions from "working as advertised" which is bad if you're used to being able to rely on them. :-/ For now, I'll personally use the pg_dump version of the query, or maybe see if the one in backend/catalog/information_schema.sql can be run directly. :) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] Adding column comment to information_schema.columns
Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: If there is that much clamor for this, why not make a new schema, such as "pginformation_schema" People could then tweak the views to their heart's content, while keeping 100% compliance. Doesn't sound very neat. If we add a pginformation_schema, then it'd probably contain all of the existing information_schema... plus more. Reduplication? I guess we could just leverage off the existing information_schema views: i.e. CREATE VIEW pg_information_schmema.some_view AS SELECT * FROM information_schema.some_view (then add extra bits). But it still doesn't sound very neat. ? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] LinuxTag wrapup
Andreas Pflug wrote: That's true, it's the question how much can be offered without too much effort. I'm not too deep in oracle stuff, what comes to my mind is - outer join syntax (parser thing) - sequences usage (parser too) - maybe stored procedure call, with a wrapper to convert output parameters to a composite return value. There's also their "FROM DUAL" workaround (in common usage) as well. i.e. SELECT NEXTVAL.foo FROM DUAL; Because their SQL queries always seem to need a target object to select from. i.e. "SELECT NEXTVAL.foo" isn't valid for Oracle 8/9. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift There's certainly no point supporting any weird ddl command, so there's still porting work to be done when migrating. Regards, Andreas ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Adding column comment to information_schema.columns
Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: Well, if we add them (and they would be very useful I reckon) should we ensure there's an obvious PG naming thing happening? Why are they useful If you want PG specific stuff then use the PG specific catalogs!!! My take on this is that it's a LOT easier for people who don't know the internals of the PG catalogs to be able to query the information schema, as in the information schema things are generally explicitly named. Much easier for non-experts, which most people don't want to have to invest the time in becoming. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Chris ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
