Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 12.07.2016 12:59, Ivan Čukić wrote:


Music player: VLC (I've taken form the thread that people feel Cantata's
benefits over VLC do not outweigh its downsides)

The fact that people mentioned that Cantata has downsides is not
really a +1 for VLC - it is not like VLC is the only alternative to
Cantata (IMO, it is not an alternative at all).

True. especially with support for things like Spotify and Soundcloud (although
sadly not Google Play Music), a desktop music player is a useful thing to have.

It still looks too much like Amarok 1.4 to fit in well with Plasma.

This is a strange statement.

What is the reasoning behind 'Amarok 1.4 does not fit Plasma'? Yes, it
was a player from pre-plasma days, but that does not really mean it is
bad for Plasma.

It uses breeze icons, has no problems with the breeze theme.

I agree Clementine is a bit uglier than Cantata (and it has some
custom-drawn UI elements), but it also has some advantages over it.

And I would not dismiss the fact that Amarok 1.x was *the* player for
Linux (not only KDE users).

This is a side-by-side somparison of their UIs:
Breeze: https://i.snag.gy/pWtbPk.jpg
QtCurve: https://i.snag.gy/5CXz3K.jpg

Oh, I see: The biggest weird-looking factor for me is actually the custom 
background
in the default sidebar. Once you change it to "plain sidebar", it looks way less 
weird.

We might indeed recommend Clementine by default for distributions which don't
mind shipping Qt4-based applications (until the Qt5 port is finished), along 
with the

recommendation to select the plain sidebar and disable the systray icon by 
default
(because it does not use a Breeze icon, and does not really add much which the
MPRIS Plasmoid doesn't do).

I also just tried out the Spotify integration and that works pretty well, too (a 
bit better

than that of Cantata + Mopidy, actually).


It would be cool if we had some tool for these kinds of discussions
where we could all list pros and cons of various programs to be able
to get the whole picture before deciding.

Anyone knows of an online sevice for this?

I don't, but we could always use a simple Google Drive spreadsheet if we want 
to.

___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

> What about the file archiver Ark in the Utilities category? It also provides 
the ability to compress/extract archives from the contextmenu in Dolphin. I 
would think it has at least as much justification to be on the list as e.g. KCalc.


Yes, Ark, absolutely! That must have slipped through as well.
Thank you for pointing it out!
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Martin Graesslin]

On Monday, July 11, 2016 10:31:14 PM CEST Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> So this is the input I've taken from this thread so far:
> 
> File manager: Dolphin
> Music player: VLC (I've taken form the thread that people feel Cantata's
> benefits over VLC do not outweigh its downsides)

As a matter of fact I have been using Cantata instead of VLC since it was 
proposed here. I thought I need to give a better testing on it when saying 
it's not optimal.

I hereby withdraw my previous comments :-)

Cheers
Martin

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Martin Klapetek]

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Thomas Pfeiffer 
wrote:

> So this is the input I've taken from this thread so far:
>
> File manager: Dolphin
> Music player: VLC (I've taken form the thread that people feel Cantata's
> benefits over VLC do not outweigh its downsides)
>

I feel that VLC fits into Plasma just as Clementine does.
Given that, Clementine is an actual music player, with
collections manager and music specific plugins and nice
systray icon and works with our mpris2 controller and
fetches lyrics and artist info and offers internet streaming
by default and Spotify integration and is a music player,
above all.

VLC is primarily a video player, using it for playing music
works, but it's not its primary use case, making it lesser
app when compared to Clementine (or Cantata, even).

Cheers
-- 
Martin Klapetek
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

So this is the input I've taken from this thread so far:

File manager: Dolphin
Music player: VLC (I've taken form the thread that people feel Cantata's 
benefits over VLC do not outweigh its downsides)

Video player: VLC
Document viewer: Okular, if your distribution still ships Qt4 and kdelibs
Software center: Discover
Communication: Konversation, KDE Telepathy (cautiously, because while it works
well at the moment, it is also looking for a maintainer)

Password storage: KWalletmanager (only to provide a way to see the passswords
stored by KDE applications, not as a general-purpose password manager), 
kwallet-pam
-> There is still debate whether or not KWallet is "better than nothing"

Hardware support: Skanlite, Print manager Utilities/system tools: KCalc, KDE
Connect, Konsole, KSysguard, Kate, Kamoso (if a distro wants to ship a webcam
app at all)

Office suite: We do not recommend one at the moment
Pim suite: We do not recommend one at the moment. Browser: We do not recommend
one at the moment
Image viewer: Gwenview

Browser: We do not recommend one at the moment
-> Martin brought up security issues with QtWebEngine-based browsers, but we're 
not distributions' general security advisors. We only care about which 
applications are both high-quality and fit well into Plasma. There are currently 
no browsers which check both boxes, so we don't recommend any.


Would everybody be okay with this list?
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 08.07.2016 11:16, Luca Beltrame wrote:


In data venerdì 8 luglio 2016 10:34:52 CEST, Marco Martin ha scritto:


I was referring to cantata as having under the hood problems (using mpd)
does clementine use gstreamer? (that would be the most distro-blessed
option)

IIRC, Clementine has no Qt5 port officially released.


Indeed, it doesn't.
Furthermore, it does not visually fit into Plasma at all. While being 
functionally just fine,

it looks really alien within Plasma.
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Luca Beltrame]

In data venerdì 8 luglio 2016 10:34:52 CEST, Marco Martin ha scritto:

> I was referring to cantata as having under the hood problems (using mpd)
> does clementine use gstreamer? (that would be the most distro-blessed
> option)

IIRC, Clementine has no Qt5 port officially released.

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
KDE Science supporter
GPG key ID: A29D259B

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Marco Martin]

On Friday 08 July 2016 09:47:15 Gregor Mi wrote:
> On 07.07.2016 22:42, Marco Martin wrote:
> > On Thursday 07 July 2016 11:29:15 Ivan Čukić wrote:
> >> I also find Cantata a strange choice (even though I do use it :) ).
> >> Was Clementine-qt5 considered?
> > 
> > i liked the proposal as i consider it as the only qt based music player
> > that has a kida good UI, but yeah, it does have problems underneath
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am currently using clementine and thought about to propose it here. I did
> not look under the hood... What kind of problems does it have?

I was referring to cantata as having under the hood problems (using mpd) does 
clementine use gstreamer? (that would be the most distro-blessed option)

-- 
Marco Martin
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Gregor Mi]

On 07.07.2016 22:42, Marco Martin wrote:
> On Thursday 07 July 2016 11:29:15 Ivan Čukić wrote:
>> I also find Cantata a strange choice (even though I do use it :) ).
>> Was Clementine-qt5 considered?
> 
> i liked the proposal as i consider it as the only qt based music player that 
> has a kida good UI, but yeah, it does have problems underneath
> 

Hi,

I am currently using clementine and thought about to propose it here. I did not 
look under
the hood... What kind of problems does it have?

Gregor
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Marco Martin]

On Thursday 07 July 2016 11:29:15 Ivan Čukić wrote:
> I also find Cantata a strange choice (even though I do use it :) ).
> Was Clementine-qt5 considered?

i liked the proposal as i consider it as the only qt based music player that 
has a kida good UI, but yeah, it does have problems underneath

-- 
Marco Martin
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[R.Harish Navnit]

On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 5:04 PM, Sebastian Kügler  wrote:
> On donderdag 7 juli 2016 11:29:15 CEST Ivan Čukić wrote:
>> As for the browser, while I do agree with Martin regarding the slow Qt
>> security updates, I do not think we should actively discourage their
>> use.
>
> Agree. Let's keep the recommendations positive.
That's generally good, but from a user's POV, I'm glad Martin
highlighted those issues.
I think it would be nice if we could give a positive spin to our
recommendation whilst still highlighting potential hazards.

Thanks,
Harish
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Sebastian Kügler]

On donderdag 7 juli 2016 11:29:15 CEST Ivan Čukić wrote:
> As for the browser, while I do agree with Martin regarding the slow Qt
> security updates, I do not think we should actively discourage their
> use.

Agree. Let's keep the recommendations positive.
-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 05.07.2016 13:23, Martin Graesslin wrote:

The problems as I see it, is that I don't trust Qt to update when there are
security issues. That's based on how long we had to wait for Qt 5.6.1. I just
tried to figure out which issues in QtWebEngine were fixed in 5.6.1, but that's
not possible. The changelog ( https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtwebengine.git/tree/
dist/changes-5.6.1?h=5.6.1 ) does not list them. It only says it's up to ...
2704.63. So are the issues mentioned in https://
googlechromereleases.blogspot.de/2016/06/stable-channel-update_16.html fixed or
not? And what about those in https://googlechromereleases.blogspot.de/2016/06/
stable-channel-update.html ?

That's the problem I see with Qt based browsers - I don't think the Qt team is
up to the task of doing timely security fixes for their software. Also caused
by Qt's release model of releasing all together. QtWebEngine would need
updates whenever chromium updates.

I'm writing that with my security hat on and not with my I would like to see
Qt applications hat.



This is a very valid point, but wouldn't it be in our as well as Qt's best 
interest
to figure out a solution for it together with the Qt community, instead of just 
saying

"Anything using QtWebEngine is a security risk and therefore should not be 
used?"

I suppose we all want our favorite toolkit to be usable to securely browse the 
web,
don't we? I'd be very surprised if the Qt Company simply did not care about the
security of QtWebEngine, so if we approach them with our concerns, they should
be responsive to them.
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Ivan Čukić]

I also find Cantata a strange choice (even though I do use it :) ).
Was Clementine-qt5 considered?

I do not think VLC is a suitable replacement for a proper music
player. (if we took that claim, we could easily say everything here is
irrelevant since the web browser is all the user needs...)

As for the browser, while I do agree with Martin regarding the slow Qt
security updates, I do not think we should actively discourage their
use.

Cheers,
Ivan
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 05.07.2016 10:35, Marco Martin wrote:

On Monday 04 July 2016 16:52:09 Jens Reuterberg wrote:

IRC is too uncommon to be "ship by default"

and argument i heardfor irc is that distributions still nowdays depends on it
for semi-official user support, so most distributions wants it anyways


Exactly. Most distros use IRC is their default support medium, so an IRC client
is a must, even if most users only start it when they have a problem.

- Cantata is not relevant enough

ugh, are the times changed that much that a non-spotify music player is not
relevant anymore? (me feels old and quetly retires mumbling against today's
youngsters)


Yes, VLC does play music, but it's not really a good music player.
Of course we could say "If you'd like to ship a music player by default (and the
integration of mp3 into MPD does not violate any of your policies), we'd
recommend Cantata."
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Martin Graesslin]

On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 3:51:45 PM CEST R.Harish Navnit wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Martin Graesslin  
wrote:
> > On Monday, July 4, 2016 10:52:12 PM CEST Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > > On 04.07.2016 18:37, Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> > > > Am 2016-07-04 14:43, schrieb Thomas Pfeiffer:
> > > >> Hi everyone,
> > > >> every now and then, distributions approach us asking which
> > > >> applications they should ship by default with Plasma, or they
> > > >> complain
> > > >> about us not providing such information.
> > > >> Although the Plasma team of course does not have to provide such
> > > >> information, it may still be helpful also for us because we can try
> > > >> to
> > > >> make sure that these applications work well in Plasma.
> > > >> Choosing such applications is not an easy task, but to get things
> > > >> started, a group of people who were stranded in Bielefeld waiting for
> > > >> their trains after a meeting sat together to come up with an initial
> > > >> suggestion. Here is the result:
> > > >> 
> > > >> File manager: Dolphin
> > > >> Music player: Cantata
> > > > 
> > > > I think Cantata is unsuited as it requires an mpd running. Given that
> > > > it's
> > > > out of scope for simple usage.
> > > 
> > > Have you set up Cantata lately? Yes, it requires mpd, but it sets one up
> > > all by itself if you don't have one.
> > > You tell it where your library is and it does the rest, not more
> > > complicated than any other music player.
> > > We would not have included it in this list if it required setting up mpd
> > > manually.
> > 
> > ok, but that's then something which needs to be pointed out to
> > distributions that they set up the packaging correctly.
> > 
> > > >> Document viewer: Okular
> > > > 
> > > > Here we need to be careful given that there is no release based on Qt
> > > > 5
> > > > (note that some distros ship with it but master has a terrible and
> > > > annoying warning in your face dialog about that) and Qt 4 is EOL.
> > > > Given
> > > > that viewing pdfs is something which has been exploited in the past
> > > > and
> > > > is network attackable in worst case, I think it's not a good choice.
> > > > As
> > > > long as there is no Qt5-maintained release I would say it needs to be
> > > > evince or none.
> > > 
> > > This is a difficult issue, then. Is there any way we can help Albert
> > > with
> > > finishing the Qt5 port? Not
> > > having a well-integrated PDF reader is not a good situation to be in. Of
> > > course the same is true
> > > for the other areas where we don't recommend anything, but it feels like
> > > Okular would be the
> > > easiest to get to a point where it could be recommended.
> > 
> > I don't know if there is a way to help with the port. After having seen
> > the
> > in-your-face warning I had a feeling that running the dev build is
> > discouraged by the Okular developers. That makes it difficult to help as
> > not even bug reports are wanted (given the in-your-face dialog). But we
> > two already discussed that in private.
> > 
> > > >> Software center: Discover
> > > >> Communication: Konversation, KDE Telepathy (cautiously, because while
> > > >> it works well at the moment, it is also looking for a maintainer)
> > > >> Password storage: KWalletmanager, kwallet-pam
> > > > 
> > > > While KWalletmanager gives a good integration in some KDE applications
> > > > it's
> > > > nothing I would recommend as a wallet manager. It is not well
> > > > integrated
> > > > into Plasma, it is not secure, it has a terrible first run experience
> > > > with recommending to use a GPG key and then telling you that you don't
> > > > have one and does not have any concept of synchronization. In the area
> > > > of
> > > > password storage there are way better solutions available in the FLOSS
> > > > world
> > > 
> > > I agree, KWalletmanager as it is now is _not_ a good password manager.
> > > The
> > > reason why we
> > > integrated it in that list is that things like Plasma-NM only work
> > > automatically with KWallet, so
> > > there is not really a way around that, and KWalletManager is the only
> > > practical to see or remove
> > > passwords stored in KWallet.
> > > The situation with KWallet is a huge problem for Plasma, which has to be
> > > solved. KSecretService would have been the solution, but unfortunately
> > > Valentin has no more time to
> > > work on it.
> > > There are various solutions for this problem, but we have to take one,
> > > and
> > > we do need some
> > > form of keyring to store things like wifi keys in an encrypted store.
> > > 
> > > I will open a separate thread for this issue, as it's too big to be
> > > discussed within this thread.
> > 
> > sounds like a good idea to start a new thread about that.
> > 
> > > >> Hardware support: Skanlite, Print manager
> > > >> Utilities/system tools: KCalc, KDE Connect, Konsole, KSysguard, Kate,
> > > >> Kamoso (if a distro wants to ship a webcam app at all)
> > > >> 

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Heiko Becker]

> Browser: We do not recommend one at the moment

 for browser I would turn the recommendation the other way: let's
 explicitly
 recommend to not use any of the Qt browsers.
>>>
>>> I've heard people using e.g. QupZilla as their daily browser and not being
>>> unhappy with it. I don't think it's at a state where I'd explicitly
>>> recommend it, but it's not so bad that I'd recommend _against_ it.
>>
>> And from a security perspective?
> Are there any known security flaws with Qt browsers ? I just tried out
> QupZilla and I really like it. The interface is neat and it's not
> taking much memory either. I'm really enjoying it to be honest. But
> what I don't know is, how secure it is ?
> 
> I'm just being curious here. I'm definitely tilting towards wanting to
> use QupZilla on a daily basis, and would be glad to receive any
> heads-ups before I take the plunge :-)

There are gazillion security flaws if they use the unmaintained
QtWebKit. QupZilla >= 2.0 on the other hand uses QtWebEngine. Security
fixes might need some time to trickle down from Chromium to your local
copy of QtWebEngine though.

Cheers,
Heiko

___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[R.Harish Navnit]

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Martin Graesslin  wrote:
>
> On Monday, July 4, 2016 10:52:12 PM CEST Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > On 04.07.2016 18:37, Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> > > Am 2016-07-04 14:43, schrieb Thomas Pfeiffer:
> > >> Hi everyone,
> > >> every now and then, distributions approach us asking which
> > >> applications they should ship by default with Plasma, or they complain
> > >> about us not providing such information.
> > >> Although the Plasma team of course does not have to provide such
> > >> information, it may still be helpful also for us because we can try to
> > >> make sure that these applications work well in Plasma.
> > >> Choosing such applications is not an easy task, but to get things
> > >> started, a group of people who were stranded in Bielefeld waiting for
> > >> their trains after a meeting sat together to come up with an initial
> > >> suggestion. Here is the result:
> > >>
> > >> File manager: Dolphin
> > >> Music player: Cantata
> > >
> > > I think Cantata is unsuited as it requires an mpd running. Given that it's
> > > out of scope for simple usage.
> >
> > Have you set up Cantata lately? Yes, it requires mpd, but it sets one up all
> > by itself if you don't have one.
> > You tell it where your library is and it does the rest, not more complicated
> > than any other music player.
> > We would not have included it in this list if it required setting up mpd
> > manually.
>
> ok, but that's then something which needs to be pointed out to distributions
> that they set up the packaging correctly.
>
> > >> Document viewer: Okular
> > >
> > > Here we need to be careful given that there is no release based on Qt 5
> > > (note that some distros ship with it but master has a terrible and
> > > annoying warning in your face dialog about that) and Qt 4 is EOL. Given
> > > that viewing pdfs is something which has been exploited in the past and
> > > is network attackable in worst case, I think it's not a good choice. As
> > > long as there is no Qt5-maintained release I would say it needs to be
> > > evince or none.
> >
> > This is a difficult issue, then. Is there any way we can help Albert with
> > finishing the Qt5 port? Not
> > having a well-integrated PDF reader is not a good situation to be in. Of
> > course the same is true
> > for the other areas where we don't recommend anything, but it feels like
> > Okular would be the
> > easiest to get to a point where it could be recommended.
>
> I don't know if there is a way to help with the port. After having seen the
> in-your-face warning I had a feeling that running the dev build is discouraged
> by the Okular developers. That makes it difficult to help as not even bug
> reports are wanted (given the in-your-face dialog). But we two already
> discussed that in private.
>
> >
> > >> Software center: Discover
> > >> Communication: Konversation, KDE Telepathy (cautiously, because while
> > >> it works well at the moment, it is also looking for a maintainer)
> > >> Password storage: KWalletmanager, kwallet-pam
> > >
> > > While KWalletmanager gives a good integration in some KDE applications
> > > it's
> > > nothing I would recommend as a wallet manager. It is not well integrated
> > > into Plasma, it is not secure, it has a terrible first run experience
> > > with recommending to use a GPG key and then telling you that you don't
> > > have one and does not have any concept of synchronization. In the area of
> > > password storage there are way better solutions available in the FLOSS
> > > world
> >
> > I agree, KWalletmanager as it is now is _not_ a good password manager. The
> > reason why we
> > integrated it in that list is that things like Plasma-NM only work
> > automatically with KWallet, so
> > there is not really a way around that, and KWalletManager is the only
> > practical to see or remove
> > passwords stored in KWallet.
> > The situation with KWallet is a huge problem for Plasma, which has to be
> > solved. KSecretService would have been the solution, but unfortunately
> > Valentin has no more time to
> > work on it.
> > There are various solutions for this problem, but we have to take one, and
> > we do need some
> > form of keyring to store things like wifi keys in an encrypted store.
> >
> > I will open a separate thread for this issue, as it's too big to be
> > discussed within this thread.
>
> sounds like a good idea to start a new thread about that.
>
> >
> > >> Hardware support: Skanlite, Print manager
> > >> Utilities/system tools: KCalc, KDE Connect, Konsole, KSysguard, Kate,
> > >> Kamoso (if a distro wants to ship a webcam app at all)
> > >> Office suite: We do not recommend one at the moment
> > >> Pim suite: We do not recommend one at the moment.
> > >> Browser: We do not recommend one at the moment
> > >
> > > for browser I would turn the recommendation the other way: let's
> > > explicitly
> > > recommend to not use any of the Qt browsers.
> >
> > I've heard people using e.g. 

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Marco Martin]

On Monday 04 July 2016 18:37:59 Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> > File manager: Dolphin
> > Music player: Cantata
> 
> I think Cantata is unsuited as it requires an mpd running. Given that
> it's out of scope for simple usage.

thing is, Cantata is the only Qt based music player i know that has an UI that 
I would consider to be any good (and yes, the dependency upon mpd may prove to 
be an insurmontable obstacle)

> While KWalletmanager gives a good integration in some KDE applications
> it's nothing I would recommend as a wallet manager. It is not well
> integrated into Plasma, it is not secure, it has a terrible first run
> experience with recommending to use a GPG key and then telling you that
> you don't have one and does not have any concept of synchronization. In
> the area of password storage there are way better solutions available in
> the FLOSS world

maybe is "not well integrated into plasma", but it's pretty much an hard 
dependency never the less (even if just for things like our networkmanager 
stuff that wants it for the wireless key) or fish kio, or kmail, or really any 
frameworks app that wants to save a password.
So, any problem it may have it's on us, and our responsibility to make it 
better, recomending a 3rd party one is not an option.
unless of course we take the effort to strip out every password saving 
capability from any of our software (and no, saying that's an application, 
it's not part of plasma so is not my problem it doesn't count)


-- 
Marco Martin
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Marco Martin]

On Tuesday 05 July 2016 07:56:50 Martin Graesslin wrote:
> > That's just negative speech, not something we want to be responsible
> > for. I'm sure KDE could have a good web browser.
> 
> KDE might be able to have a good web browser. Currently we don't. If we
> explicitly recommend software we need to be honest first of all with
> ourselves. Just because there is a tool which does job foo, doesn't mean
> it's a good tool.

not recomending any is fine in this case i think, recomending against should be 
reserved for software that has proved to be explicitly malicious

-- 
Marco Martin
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Marco Martin]

On Monday 04 July 2016 16:52:09 Jens Reuterberg wrote:
> IRC is too uncommon to be "ship by default"
and argument i heardfor irc is that distributions still nowdays depends on it 
for semi-official user support, so most distributions wants it anyways

> - Cantata is not relevant enough
ugh, are the times changed that much that a non-spotify music player is not 
relevant anymore? (me feels old and quetly retires mumbling against today's 
youngsters)

-- 
Marco Martin
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Martin Graesslin]

On Monday, July 4, 2016 10:52:12 PM CEST Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> On 04.07.2016 18:37, Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> > Am 2016-07-04 14:43, schrieb Thomas Pfeiffer:
> >> Hi everyone,
> >> every now and then, distributions approach us asking which
> >> applications they should ship by default with Plasma, or they complain
> >> about us not providing such information.
> >> Although the Plasma team of course does not have to provide such
> >> information, it may still be helpful also for us because we can try to
> >> make sure that these applications work well in Plasma.
> >> Choosing such applications is not an easy task, but to get things
> >> started, a group of people who were stranded in Bielefeld waiting for
> >> their trains after a meeting sat together to come up with an initial
> >> suggestion. Here is the result:
> >> 
> >> File manager: Dolphin
> >> Music player: Cantata
> > 
> > I think Cantata is unsuited as it requires an mpd running. Given that it's
> > out of scope for simple usage.
> 
> Have you set up Cantata lately? Yes, it requires mpd, but it sets one up all
> by itself if you don't have one.
> You tell it where your library is and it does the rest, not more complicated
> than any other music player.
> We would not have included it in this list if it required setting up mpd
> manually.

ok, but that's then something which needs to be pointed out to distributions 
that they set up the packaging correctly.

> >> Document viewer: Okular
> > 
> > Here we need to be careful given that there is no release based on Qt 5
> > (note that some distros ship with it but master has a terrible and
> > annoying warning in your face dialog about that) and Qt 4 is EOL. Given
> > that viewing pdfs is something which has been exploited in the past and
> > is network attackable in worst case, I think it's not a good choice. As
> > long as there is no Qt5-maintained release I would say it needs to be
> > evince or none.
> 
> This is a difficult issue, then. Is there any way we can help Albert with
> finishing the Qt5 port? Not
> having a well-integrated PDF reader is not a good situation to be in. Of
> course the same is true
> for the other areas where we don't recommend anything, but it feels like
> Okular would be the
> easiest to get to a point where it could be recommended.

I don't know if there is a way to help with the port. After having seen the 
in-your-face warning I had a feeling that running the dev build is discouraged 
by the Okular developers. That makes it difficult to help as not even bug 
reports are wanted (given the in-your-face dialog). But we two already 
discussed that in private.

> 
> >> Software center: Discover
> >> Communication: Konversation, KDE Telepathy (cautiously, because while
> >> it works well at the moment, it is also looking for a maintainer)
> >> Password storage: KWalletmanager, kwallet-pam
> > 
> > While KWalletmanager gives a good integration in some KDE applications
> > it's
> > nothing I would recommend as a wallet manager. It is not well integrated
> > into Plasma, it is not secure, it has a terrible first run experience
> > with recommending to use a GPG key and then telling you that you don't
> > have one and does not have any concept of synchronization. In the area of
> > password storage there are way better solutions available in the FLOSS
> > world
> 
> I agree, KWalletmanager as it is now is _not_ a good password manager. The
> reason why we
> integrated it in that list is that things like Plasma-NM only work
> automatically with KWallet, so
> there is not really a way around that, and KWalletManager is the only
> practical to see or remove
> passwords stored in KWallet.
> The situation with KWallet is a huge problem for Plasma, which has to be
> solved. KSecretService would have been the solution, but unfortunately
> Valentin has no more time to
> work on it.
> There are various solutions for this problem, but we have to take one, and
> we do need some
> form of keyring to store things like wifi keys in an encrypted store.
> 
> I will open a separate thread for this issue, as it's too big to be
> discussed within this thread.

sounds like a good idea to start a new thread about that.

> 
> >> Hardware support: Skanlite, Print manager
> >> Utilities/system tools: KCalc, KDE Connect, Konsole, KSysguard, Kate,
> >> Kamoso (if a distro wants to ship a webcam app at all)
> >> Office suite: We do not recommend one at the moment
> >> Pim suite: We do not recommend one at the moment.
> >> Browser: We do not recommend one at the moment
> > 
> > for browser I would turn the recommendation the other way: let's
> > explicitly
> > recommend to not use any of the Qt browsers.
> 
> I've heard people using e.g. QupZilla as their daily browser and not being
> unhappy with it. I don't think it's at a state where I'd explicitly
> recommend it, but it's not so bad that I'd recommend _against_ it.

And from a security perspective?

Cheers
Martin

signature.asc
Description: This is 

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Martin Graesslin]

On Monday, July 4, 2016 11:06:05 PM CEST Aleix Pol wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 4, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Martin Gräßlin  wrote:
> > Am 2016-07-04 14:43, schrieb Thomas Pfeiffer:
> >> Hi everyone,
> >> every now and then, distributions approach us asking which
> >> applications they should ship by default with Plasma, or they complain
> >> about us not providing such information.
> >> Although the Plasma team of course does not have to provide such
> >> information, it may still be helpful also for us because we can try to
> >> make sure that these applications work well in Plasma.
> >> Choosing such applications is not an easy task, but to get things
> >> started, a group of people who were stranded in Bielefeld waiting for
> >> their trains after a meeting sat together to come up with an initial
> >> suggestion. Here is the result:
> >> 
> >> File manager: Dolphin
> >> Music player: Cantata
> > 
> > I think Cantata is unsuited as it requires an mpd running. Given that it's
> > out of scope for simple usage.
> > 
> >> Video player: VLC
> >> Document viewer: Okular
> > 
> > Here we need to be careful given that there is no release based on Qt 5
> > (note that some distros ship with it but master has a terrible and
> > annoying
> > warning in your face dialog about that) and Qt 4 is EOL. Given that
> > viewing
> > pdfs is something which has been exploited in the past and is network
> > attackable in worst case, I think it's not a good choice. As long as there
> > is no Qt5-maintained release I would say it needs to be evince or none.
> 
> That's absurd, if anything we can say it's none and set it as a
> priority to have Okular ported.

Why is that absurd? Currently KDE does not have a pdf viewer which is 
suitable. There is a Qt 4 version - that's no-no, and there's a Qt 5 version 
with a big fat in your face warning - that's no-no-no-no.

evince does a good job and I'm using it regularly.

> 
> >> Software center: Discover
> >> Communication: Konversation, KDE Telepathy (cautiously, because while
> >> it works well at the moment, it is also looking for a maintainer)
> >> Password storage: KWalletmanager, kwallet-pam
> > 
> > While KWalletmanager gives a good integration in some KDE applications
> > it's
> > nothing I would recommend as a wallet manager. It is not well integrated
> > into Plasma, it is not secure, it has a terrible first run experience with
> > recommending to use a GPG key and then telling you that you don't have one
> > and does not have any concept of synchronization. In the area of password
> > storage there are way better solutions available in the FLOSS world
> > 
> >> Hardware support: Skanlite, Print manager
> >> Utilities/system tools: KCalc, KDE Connect, Konsole, KSysguard, Kate,
> >> Kamoso (if a distro wants to ship a webcam app at all)
> >> Office suite: We do not recommend one at the moment
> >> Pim suite: We do not recommend one at the moment.
> >> Browser: We do not recommend one at the moment
> > 
> > for browser I would turn the recommendation the other way: let's
> > explicitly
> > recommend to not use any of the Qt browsers.
> 
> That's just negative speech, not something we want to be responsible
> for. I'm sure KDE could have a good web browser.

KDE might be able to have a good web browser. Currently we don't. If we 
explicitly recommend software we need to be honest first of all with ourselves. 
Just because there is a tool which does job foo, doesn't mean it's a good 
tool. 

> 
> >> If an applicaiton does not show up in this list, this does of course
> >> not mean we don't like the application or the team behind it, it just
> >> means that we _currently_ don't feel confident to recommend it to
> >> users.
> >> 
> >> This is our initial proposal, now we'd like to get the input from the
> >> rest of the Plasma team!
> > 
> > Thanks for starting that thread, very important
> 
> Let's remember that communicating is important.
> Team building is important.
> Community building is important.

Being honest to ourselves is important. Yes I see that a "this software is not 
good enough" can be discouraging for the developers and work against community 
building. But having good recommendations which we can actually recommend to 
our users is more important. We shouldn't be afraid of saying that a software 
is not good enough for a recommendation. If we recommend bad software this 
also directly reflects on us and our community.

Cheers
Martin

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Aleix Pol]

On Mon, Jul 4, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Martin Gräßlin  wrote:
> Am 2016-07-04 14:43, schrieb Thomas Pfeiffer:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>> every now and then, distributions approach us asking which
>> applications they should ship by default with Plasma, or they complain
>> about us not providing such information.
>> Although the Plasma team of course does not have to provide such
>> information, it may still be helpful also for us because we can try to
>> make sure that these applications work well in Plasma.
>> Choosing such applications is not an easy task, but to get things
>> started, a group of people who were stranded in Bielefeld waiting for
>> their trains after a meeting sat together to come up with an initial
>> suggestion. Here is the result:
>>
>> File manager: Dolphin
>> Music player: Cantata
>
>
> I think Cantata is unsuited as it requires an mpd running. Given that it's
> out of scope for simple usage.
>
>> Video player: VLC
>> Document viewer: Okular
>
>
> Here we need to be careful given that there is no release based on Qt 5
> (note that some distros ship with it but master has a terrible and annoying
> warning in your face dialog about that) and Qt 4 is EOL. Given that viewing
> pdfs is something which has been exploited in the past and is network
> attackable in worst case, I think it's not a good choice. As long as there
> is no Qt5-maintained release I would say it needs to be evince or none.

That's absurd, if anything we can say it's none and set it as a
priority to have Okular ported.

>> Software center: Discover
>> Communication: Konversation, KDE Telepathy (cautiously, because while
>> it works well at the moment, it is also looking for a maintainer)
>> Password storage: KWalletmanager, kwallet-pam
>
>
> While KWalletmanager gives a good integration in some KDE applications it's
> nothing I would recommend as a wallet manager. It is not well integrated
> into Plasma, it is not secure, it has a terrible first run experience with
> recommending to use a GPG key and then telling you that you don't have one
> and does not have any concept of synchronization. In the area of password
> storage there are way better solutions available in the FLOSS world
>
>> Hardware support: Skanlite, Print manager
>> Utilities/system tools: KCalc, KDE Connect, Konsole, KSysguard, Kate,
>> Kamoso (if a distro wants to ship a webcam app at all)
>> Office suite: We do not recommend one at the moment
>> Pim suite: We do not recommend one at the moment.
>> Browser: We do not recommend one at the moment
>
>
> for browser I would turn the recommendation the other way: let's explicitly
> recommend to not use any of the Qt browsers.

That's just negative speech, not something we want to be responsible
for. I'm sure KDE could have a good web browser.

>> If an applicaiton does not show up in this list, this does of course
>> not mean we don't like the application or the team behind it, it just
>> means that we _currently_ don't feel confident to recommend it to
>> users.
>>
>> This is our initial proposal, now we'd like to get the input from the
>> rest of the Plasma team!
>
>
> Thanks for starting that thread, very important

Let's remember that communicating is important.
Team building is important.
Community building is important.

Aleix
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 04.07.2016 18:37, Martin Gräßlin wrote:

Am 2016-07-04 14:43, schrieb Thomas Pfeiffer:

Hi everyone,
every now and then, distributions approach us asking which
applications they should ship by default with Plasma, or they complain
about us not providing such information.
Although the Plasma team of course does not have to provide such
information, it may still be helpful also for us because we can try to
make sure that these applications work well in Plasma.
Choosing such applications is not an easy task, but to get things
started, a group of people who were stranded in Bielefeld waiting for
their trains after a meeting sat together to come up with an initial
suggestion. Here is the result:

File manager: Dolphin
Music player: Cantata


I think Cantata is unsuited as it requires an mpd running. Given that it's out 
of scope for simple usage.


Have you set up Cantata lately? Yes, it requires mpd, but it sets one up all by 
itself if you don't have one.
You tell it where your library is and it does the rest, not more complicated 
than any other music player.

We would not have included it in this list if it required setting up mpd 
manually.


Document viewer: Okular


Here we need to be careful given that there is no release based on Qt 5 (note 
that some distros ship with it but master has a terrible and annoying warning 
in your face dialog about that) and Qt 4 is EOL. Given that viewing pdfs is 
something which has been exploited in the past and is network attackable in 
worst case, I think it's not a good choice. As long as there is no 
Qt5-maintained release I would say it needs to be evince or none.


This is a difficult issue, then. Is there any way we can help Albert with 
finishing the Qt5 port? Not
having a well-integrated PDF reader is not a good situation to be in. Of course 
the same is true
for the other areas where we don't recommend anything, but it feels like Okular 
would be the

easiest to get to a point where it could be recommended.


Software center: Discover
Communication: Konversation, KDE Telepathy (cautiously, because while
it works well at the moment, it is also looking for a maintainer)
Password storage: KWalletmanager, kwallet-pam


While KWalletmanager gives a good integration in some KDE applications it's 
nothing I would recommend as a wallet manager. It is not well integrated into 
Plasma, it is not secure, it has a terrible first run experience with 
recommending to use a GPG key and then telling you that you don't have one and 
does not have any concept of synchronization. In the area of password storage 
there are way better solutions available in the FLOSS world


I agree, KWalletmanager as it is now is _not_ a good password manager. The 
reason why we
integrated it in that list is that things like Plasma-NM only work automatically 
with KWallet, so
there is not really a way around that, and KWalletManager is the only practical 
to see or remove

passwords stored in KWallet.
The situation with KWallet is a huge problem for Plasma, which has to be solved.
KSecretService would have been the solution, but unfortunately Valentin has no 
more time to

work on it.
There are various solutions for this problem, but we have to take one, and we do 
need some

form of keyring to store things like wifi keys in an encrypted store.

I will open a separate thread for this issue, as it's too big to be discussed 
within this thread.



Hardware support: Skanlite, Print manager
Utilities/system tools: KCalc, KDE Connect, Konsole, KSysguard, Kate,
Kamoso (if a distro wants to ship a webcam app at all)
Office suite: We do not recommend one at the moment
Pim suite: We do not recommend one at the moment.
Browser: We do not recommend one at the moment


for browser I would turn the recommendation the other way: let's explicitly 
recommend to not use any of the Qt browsers.



I've heard people using e.g. QupZilla as their daily browser and not being
unhappy with it. I don't think it's at a state where I'd explicitly recommend 
it,
but it's not so bad that I'd recommend _against_ it.


If an applicaiton does not show up in this list, this does of course
not mean we don't like the application or the team behind it, it just
means that we _currently_ don't feel confident to recommend it to
users.

This is our initial proposal, now we'd like to get the input from the
rest of the Plasma team!


Thanks for starting that thread, very important


Well someone had to do it ;)
I think it's also important to make ourselves aware of the situation we're
in with regard to basic applications, because that does also contribute to
people's overall impression of "KDE" (= desktop plus apps).

___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Martin Gräßlin]

Am 2016-07-04 14:43, schrieb Thomas Pfeiffer:

Hi everyone,
every now and then, distributions approach us asking which
applications they should ship by default with Plasma, or they complain
about us not providing such information.
Although the Plasma team of course does not have to provide such
information, it may still be helpful also for us because we can try to
make sure that these applications work well in Plasma.
Choosing such applications is not an easy task, but to get things
started, a group of people who were stranded in Bielefeld waiting for
their trains after a meeting sat together to come up with an initial
suggestion. Here is the result:

File manager: Dolphin
Music player: Cantata


I think Cantata is unsuited as it requires an mpd running. Given that 
it's out of scope for simple usage.



Video player: VLC
Document viewer: Okular


Here we need to be careful given that there is no release based on Qt 5 
(note that some distros ship with it but master has a terrible and 
annoying warning in your face dialog about that) and Qt 4 is EOL. Given 
that viewing pdfs is something which has been exploited in the past and 
is network attackable in worst case, I think it's not a good choice. As 
long as there is no Qt5-maintained release I would say it needs to be 
evince or none.



Software center: Discover
Communication: Konversation, KDE Telepathy (cautiously, because while
it works well at the moment, it is also looking for a maintainer)
Password storage: KWalletmanager, kwallet-pam


While KWalletmanager gives a good integration in some KDE applications 
it's nothing I would recommend as a wallet manager. It is not well 
integrated into Plasma, it is not secure, it has a terrible first run 
experience with recommending to use a GPG key and then telling you that 
you don't have one and does not have any concept of synchronization. In 
the area of password storage there are way better solutions available in 
the FLOSS world



Hardware support: Skanlite, Print manager
Utilities/system tools: KCalc, KDE Connect, Konsole, KSysguard, Kate,
Kamoso (if a distro wants to ship a webcam app at all)
Office suite: We do not recommend one at the moment
Pim suite: We do not recommend one at the moment.
Browser: We do not recommend one at the moment


for browser I would turn the recommendation the other way: let's 
explicitly recommend to not use any of the Qt browsers.




If an applicaiton does not show up in this list, this does of course
not mean we don't like the application or the team behind it, it just
means that we _currently_ don't feel confident to recommend it to
users.

This is our initial proposal, now we'd like to get the input from the
rest of the Plasma team!


Thanks for starting that thread, very important

Cheers
Martin
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Jens Reuterberg]

IRC is too uncommon to be "ship by default" - Cantata is not relevant enough 
and VLC will work as that if needed, or something more simplistic would be 
good (and Luca's criticism is relevant as the distro maintainers for distros 
more focused on software freedom would have massive issues).

The lightest possible image viewer would be good but to be honest there are 
very few that fit the bill: some stick to menubars on top (for no reason) some 
use a completely different logic than normal (like Photoqt) making them fiddly 
to use. Gwenview but edited to at least not stick to the menu bar logic would 
be good enough I suppose.

Also isn't Kwalletmanager dead and the replacement has yet to make an 
appearence? (is there any other walletmanager, Qtbased that would be a good 
replacement until the replacement comes along?)

Aside from that I ppersonally have no objections.

On Monday, 4 July 2016 14:43:07 CEST Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> every now and then, distributions approach us asking which applications they
> should ship by default with Plasma, or they complain about us not providing
> such information.
> Although the Plasma team of course does not have to provide such
> information, it may still be helpful also for us because we can try to make
> sure that these applications work well in Plasma.
> Choosing such applications is not an easy task, but to get things started, a
> group of people who were stranded in Bielefeld waiting for their trains
> after a meeting sat together to come up with an initial suggestion. Here is
> the result:
> 
> File manager: Dolphin
> Music player: Cantata
> Video player: VLC
> Document viewer: Okular
> Software center: Discover
> Communication: Konversation, KDE Telepathy (cautiously, because while it
> works well at the moment, it is also looking for a maintainer)
> Password storage: KWalletmanager, kwallet-pam
> Hardware support: Skanlite, Print manager
> Utilities/system tools: KCalc, KDE Connect, Konsole, KSysguard, Kate, Kamoso
> (if a distro wants to ship a webcam app at all)
> Office suite: We do not recommend one at the moment
> Pim suite: We do not recommend one at the moment.
> Browser: We do not recommend one at the moment
> 
> If an applicaiton does not show up in this list, this does of course not
> mean we don't like the application or the team behind it, it just means
> that we _currently_ don't feel confident to recommend it to users.
> 
> This is our initial proposal, now we'd like to get the input from the rest
> of the Plasma team!
> 
> Thanks,
> Thomas
> ___
> Plasma-devel mailing list
> Plasma-devel@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel


___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 04.07.2016 14:59, Luca Beltrame wrote:


In data lunedì 4 luglio 2016 14:54:25 CEST, Luca Beltrame ha scritto:

Music player: Cantata

And something I forgot: it doesn't integrate too well with the workspace. At
least for my cheap keyboard, multimedia keys aren't handled unless the
application has focus, and its tray icon behaves not too well.

Good point: Actually, we think that multimedia key support should
always be handled via MPRIS, not via the applications themselves, and
that does work fine in Cantata.
Looks like we should recommend distributions to activate the MPRIS Plasmoid
by default, assign the multimedia keys to it, activate MPRIS in Cantata
and deactivate its tray icon by default. That setup works perfectly fine and
should make all MPRIS-supporting apps behave the same.

Also for some reason the MPRIS plasmoid doesn't show cover info, but that may
be a local MPD issue.

It must be a local issue, I can see cover art both in the Plasmoid and the
task manager tooltip.
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 04.07.2016 14:54, Luca Beltrame wrote:

In data lunedì 4 luglio 2016 14:43:07 CEST, Thomas Pfeiffer ha scritto:


Music player: Cantata

Its reliance on MPD makes it problematic for certain distributions, because
you can't rip out the bad bits from MPD, IIRC (while you can from VLC and
ffmpeg).

By bad, I mean patent-encumbered.

Fair enough, but those distributions can either
a) Look for a server which is compatible with the MPD protocol but
does not contain patent-encumbered technology
b) Just skip Cantata and ship only VLC.

This may be off-topic, so apologies in advance.


It's not off-topic. This is a relevant bit of information which prepares
us for distros bringing that up. Thank you!

___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 04.07.2016 14:48, Marco Martin wrote:

On Monday 04 July 2016, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:

Office suite: We do not recommend one at the moment
Pim suite: We do not recommend one at the moment.
Browser: We do not recommend one at the moment

i'm fine with the list (would add gwenview tough) should just be clear we are
not actually the maintainer of the applications on that list


Oh yes, definitely Gwenview! That simply got lost (I blame Aleix who
sent me his notes from the meeting but seems to have forgotten
to write down Gwenview :P).

And yes, we should mention that most of these are not maintained by
the Plasma team, and some are even not KDE apps at all.
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Luca Beltrame]

In data lunedì 4 luglio 2016 14:54:25 CEST, Luca Beltrame ha scritto:
> > Music player: Cantata

And something I forgot: it doesn't integrate too well with the workspace. At 
least for my cheap keyboard, multimedia keys aren't handled unless the 
application has focus, and its tray icon behaves not too well.

Also for some reason the MPRIS plasmoid doesn't show cover info, but that may 
be a local MPD issue.

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
KDE Science supporter
GPG key ID: A29D259B

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Luca Beltrame]

In data lunedì 4 luglio 2016 14:43:07 CEST, Thomas Pfeiffer ha scritto:

> Music player: Cantata

Its reliance on MPD makes it problematic for certain distributions, because 
you can't rip out the bad bits from MPD, IIRC (while you can from VLC and 
ffmpeg). 

By bad, I mean patent-encumbered.

This may be off-topic, so apologies in advance.

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
KDE Science supporter
GPG key ID: A29D259B

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Marco Martin]

On Monday 04 July 2016, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> Office suite: We do not recommend one at the moment
> Pim suite: We do not recommend one at the moment.
> Browser: We do not recommend one at the moment

i'm fine with the list (would add gwenview tough) should just be clear we are 
not actually the maintainer of the applications on that list


-- 
Marco Martin
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Which applications does the Plasma team recommend to use with Plasma?

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Monday, July 4, 2016 2:43:07 PM CEST Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> every now and then, distributions approach us asking which applications
> they  should ship by default with Plasma, or they complain about us not
> providing such information.
> Although the Plasma team of course does not have to provide such
> information, it  may still be helpful also for us because we can try to
> make sure that these applications work well in Plasma.
> Choosing such applications is not an easy task, but to get things started,
> a  group of people who were stranded in Bielefeld waiting for their trains
> after a meeting sat together to come up with an initial suggestion. Here is
> the result:
> 
> File manager: Dolphin
> Music player: Cantata
> Video player: VLC
> Document viewer: Okular
> Software center: Discover
> Communication: Konversation, KDE Telepathy (cautiously, because while it
> works  well at the moment, it is also looking for a maintainer)
> Password storage: KWalletmanager, kwallet-pam
> Hardware support: Skanlite, Print manager
> Utilities/system tools: KCalc, KDE Connect, Konsole, KSysguard, Kate, Kamoso
> (if  a distro wants to ship a webcam app at all)
> Office suite: We do not recommend one at the moment
> Pim suite: We do not recommend one at the moment.
> Browser: We do not recommend one at the moment
> 
> If an applicaiton does not show up in this list, this does of course not
> mean we  don't like the application or the team behind it, it just means
> that we _currently_ don't feel confident to recommend it to users.
> 
> This is our initial proposal, now we'd like to get the input from the rest
> of  the Plasma team!

No image viewer?
-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel