[PLUG] What does this message mean?
I keep getting this message from the Ubuntu 16.04 package upgrader: quote --> Failure to download extra data files The following packages requested additional data downloads after package installation, but the data could not be downloaded or could not be processed. ttf-mscorefonts-installer The download will be attempted again later, or you can try the download again now. Running this command requires an active Internet connection. <-- unquote Various light messing around with apt (update and upgrade, nothing more) hasn't cleared the problem. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Coffee mug
I know this is outside of what the list is for -- but it's entertaining. Just smack me if I'm going too far, and I'll remember. The ad is interactive; you have to mouse over the mug for maximum effect. https://www.gearbubble.com/changcoffeez -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Old storage -- stand down
Thank you very much to the folks who responded. With the snow and it's impact on schedules my wife decided that a 5-1/4 inch floppy would be good enough if I could dig some out -- and I could, so we're set. (And the fact that last night she held her hands about five inches apart and said "this is how big an 8" floppy is, right?". Everyone descended from my dad has a built-in tape measure in our heads -- so the notion that someone wouldn't have an instinctive grasp of how big an eight inch floppy was kind of caught me by surprise. But then, it does every time.) -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Word List
Even if none of them seem to have "phonon" (speaking of Richard's reference to Scrabble). On Mon, 2016-08-01 at 14:29 -0700, Michael Rasmussen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 01, 2016 at 01:58:51PM -0700, Tim Wescott wrote: > > I feel a need for some concentrated word play. > > > > Is there a word list (i.e., a spelling dictionary or similar) that would > > (A) be found in most standard Linux distributions (or at least Ubuntu), > > and (B) be in plain text format or some other easy-to-parse format? > > > > I'd like to be able to do regex searches on all the words in the English > > language. > > /usr/share/dict/ used to be the standard. > Improved spell checkers don't use an alpabetical plain text file anymore. > > well, that's disappointing. > > Aspell has some binary format. > > You might install the mythes package - its word index is | > so you can parse that. > > A bit of Googling brought good news though. > https://superuser.com/questions/137957/how-to-convert-aspell-dictionary-to-simple-list-of-words > > replace the PL given in the example with en and you'll have a list of words. > > -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Word List
Bingo. /usr/share/dict/ has several word lists. I knew it was in there, someplace. On Mon, 2016-08-01 at 14:29 -0700, Michael Rasmussen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 01, 2016 at 01:58:51PM -0700, Tim Wescott wrote: > > I feel a need for some concentrated word play. > > > > Is there a word list (i.e., a spelling dictionary or similar) that would > > (A) be found in most standard Linux distributions (or at least Ubuntu), > > and (B) be in plain text format or some other easy-to-parse format? > > > > I'd like to be able to do regex searches on all the words in the English > > language. > > /usr/share/dict/ used to be the standard. > Improved spell checkers don't use an alpabetical plain text file anymore. > > well, that's disappointing. > > Aspell has some binary format. > > You might install the mythes package - its word index is | > so you can parse that. > > A bit of Googling brought good news though. > https://superuser.com/questions/137957/how-to-convert-aspell-dictionary-to-simple-list-of-words > > replace the PL given in the example with en and you'll have a list of words. > > -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Word List
I feel a need for some concentrated word play. Is there a word list (i.e., a spelling dictionary or similar) that would (A) be found in most standard Linux distributions (or at least Ubuntu), and (B) be in plain text format or some other easy-to-parse format? I'd like to be able to do regex searches on all the words in the English language. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Limiting memory to a program
I have a program (Scilab), which occasionally decides that it's hungry and wants to eat lots and lots of memory. This seems to be dependent on what code I'm running (Scilab includes an interpreted data-analysis language). Something about the way that Ubuntu is set up lets it use up so much memory that it bogs down my computer to the point where I need to do a hard reboot. I think that it's hitting swap so hard that the normal rationing of processor time to processes is hijacked by memory availability. Once I'm done rattling the appropriate bars at Scilab.org with a bug report, is there a way to launch a program under Linux that limits its memory access, either by total amount or in a way that'll throttle down just that program when it goes to swap? -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Kernel panic?
Oh, I know why I haven't reported the bug -- it's because when you try, Ubuntu's bug base put you on this goddamned web-page merry-go-round, with buttons that you would think would put you into a bug report form, but instead go to things like a generic page on reporting bugs, a page on how to tell if you have a bug (my computer locks up -- duh), and god knows what else because at that point I figured that Ubuntu is trying to be like Microsoft. Grrr. On Sun, 2016-05-15 at 21:17 -0700, John Jason Jordan wrote: > About a week ago I added a USB 3.0 external DVD drive to my laptop. It > has been working fine. Today I disconnected it when I took the computer > to the Clinic. Also, before going to the Clinic I installed all the > recent updates for the OS (Xubuntu 14.04). There were a lot of updates, > including a new kernel. The laptop functioned fine at the Clinic. > > Back home I reconnected the new DVD drive, and used it to rip and encode > a DVD from my collection. This went perfectly. Then I started to rip > and encode a second DVD, but this one hung at 85%, probably due to the > media being scratched. I was encoding with Handbrake, so I stopped the > encoding, but Handbrake would not stop. This has been a bug in > Handbrake for a long time, although the upgrades I did this morning > included a new version. In the past I could simply kill Handbrake, then > manually eject the DVD. When I did so this time the computer hung - no > keyboard, no mouse. (No I don't have a way to SSH into it.) > > I powered down and restarted it, then I cleaned the DVD media and tried > again. And once again, Handbrake hung on about 85%. I killed Handbrake > again, but this time the DVD light was still flickering. So I pressed > the eject button several times, and was suddenly greeted with a black > screen full of unintelligible command-line type text, and two lights > were flashing (hard drive and numlock? - can't remember which is > which). > > Again, I rebooted and everything is fine. > > This happened to me once a number of years ago and I was told that > flashing lights mean a kernel panic. Beyond that I know nothing. > > I need suggestions. > _______ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Kernel panic?
This has been happening to me off and on since the upgrade to 3.16.0-71-generic (64-bit). 70-generic would just randomly panic, so until 71 came out I was running 69-generic. 71-generic seems to panic sometimes when I plug in my Android phone, or when I dismount it -- but it hasn't shown problems with my Cannon PowerShot S3IS (cameras are the only "removable media" I've been using lately). You may just want to run 69-generic. Have you sent in a bug report? (Have I sent in a bug report? No, but I think I should!) On Sun, 2016-05-15 at 21:17 -0700, John Jason Jordan wrote: > About a week ago I added a USB 3.0 external DVD drive to my laptop. It > has been working fine. Today I disconnected it when I took the computer > to the Clinic. Also, before going to the Clinic I installed all the > recent updates for the OS (Xubuntu 14.04). There were a lot of updates, > including a new kernel. The laptop functioned fine at the Clinic. > > Back home I reconnected the new DVD drive, and used it to rip and encode > a DVD from my collection. This went perfectly. Then I started to rip > and encode a second DVD, but this one hung at 85%, probably due to the > media being scratched. I was encoding with Handbrake, so I stopped the > encoding, but Handbrake would not stop. This has been a bug in > Handbrake for a long time, although the upgrades I did this morning > included a new version. In the past I could simply kill Handbrake, then > manually eject the DVD. When I did so this time the computer hung - no > keyboard, no mouse. (No I don't have a way to SSH into it.) > > I powered down and restarted it, then I cleaned the DVD media and tried > again. And once again, Handbrake hung on about 85%. I killed Handbrake > again, but this time the DVD light was still flickering. So I pressed > the eject button several times, and was suddenly greeted with a black > screen full of unintelligible command-line type text, and two lights > were flashing (hard drive and numlock? - can't remember which is > which). > > Again, I rebooted and everything is fine. > > This happened to me once a number of years ago and I was told that > flashing lights mean a kernel panic. Beyond that I know nothing. > > I need suggestions. > ___________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Slightly OT: Good HTML design books
All my web pages are pre-cellphone, and Google has already bitched at me about formatting. At this point I'm pretty sure that I should be using HTML 5.0 -- but I'm not sure. Can anyone recommend a good book for web page design that'll bring me up to date? I've got several sites that I take care of that I'd like to start updating. Thanks. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Guiding a geographically remote friend from Windows to Linux
Yup. Most importantly I know that if my suggestion is of base for his friend, Richard will go another direction with no slight assumed or taken. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Richard Owlett Date: 03/27/2016 1:44 PM (GMT-08:00) To: plug@lists.pdxlinux.org Subject: Re: [PLUG] Guiding a geographically remote friend from Windows to Linux On 3/27/2016 2:33 PM, Tyrell Jentink wrote: [snip] > > The OP never stated WHY he felt Microsoft-like behavior was evil, or even > WHAT makes something Microsoft-like... [snip] Tim operating on information you didn't have. He's known for several years. I also assume he agrees with the logic behind your reply to my post. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Guiding a geographically remote friend from Windows to Linux
That's a good point - I've had Ubuntu updates screw things up. I've just adopted a strategy of putting in a new hard drive whenever X.04 comes out and doing a clean install. It sounds like that's not for him. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Richard Owlett Date: 03/27/2016 1:38 PM (GMT-07:00) To: plug@lists.pdxlinux.org Subject: Re: [PLUG] Guiding a geographically remote friend from Windows to Linux On 3/27/2016 11:05 AM, Tim Wescott wrote: > > > Check Xubuntu for usability. Most of Ubuntu's Microsoft like qualities are in > the desktop, and Xubuntu puts Xfce on top of Ubuntu. Lubuntu is a > possibility, too. (I use Xubuntu, for much the reasons you quote). Remember you introduced me to the Debian family in the first place. Besides their default UI I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable having having him on something using a rolling release philosophy. I only sporadically follow Ubuntu related groups, does that create any problems in the real world? As to which UI, I'd have look at each of them. The choice would depend more heavily on "human factors" than technical specs. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Guiding a geographically remote friend from Windows to Linux
Check Xubuntu for usability. Most of Ubuntu's Microsoft like qualities are in the desktop, and Xubuntu puts Xfce on top of Ubuntu. Lubuntu is a possibility, too. (I use Xubuntu, for much the reasons you quote). Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Richard Owlett Date: 03/27/2016 7:05 AM (GMT-08:00) To: plug@lists.pdxlinux.org Subject: [PLUG] Guiding a geographically remote friend from Windows to Linux I live in SW Missouri (or as one wag in the group has put it) "He lives out past Estacada, even." My friend lives in Upstate NY. Yes I realize that long distance support will create problems. Not doing it is not an option. What I suggest will be either Debian or Debian based because that is what I will be using. It will NOT be Ubuntu as Canonical is aiming at the same market as Microsoft and comes up with similar solutions on the operator interface. That is where His primary problem apparently is. [Based on having known him and is wife for ~50 years.] For the same reason Gnome3 is out. I'm leaning towards Mate as DE. I'll take a two pronged approach. I have an old laptop on which I'll install what I think is a reasonable approximation of what he needs and he would find comfortable using. The second prong requires more homework on my part and is what motivates this post. I'm looking for suggestions for tools to look at an unknown system and report on the installed hardware -especially CPU, clock speed, RAM, and networking hardware. Windows software [suitable for WinXP or later] would be nice. I would put it on a flash drive with an appropriate bat file. He would run it on each of his machines and return the drive to me via snail mail. [Did you note the lack of user input required ;] The second option is for me to create a LiveCD [don't know if all his machines can boot from a flash drive]. There would be a script which would write the information to a flash drive I supplied. That drive would have an appropriate UUID. Comments, other than I'm ... ? TIA ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] email address obfuscation
Does anyone with recent experience know if this method of obfuscating email addresses on web pages still works to frustrate the spam-bots? John.Doe@example.com (It encodes "john@example.com", if my sources are correct) It's been around forever, it would seem that the slimeballs would have upgraded by now. TIA -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Scanners that work?
My Epson Perfection 2480 scanner appears to have died. It scans, but coughs up all-white images. Has anyone in the group bought a scanner lately, and had it work? Amazon has a Cannon scanner at a good price, but I don't want it if it won't work from Linux. (I'm using Lubuntu 14.04, if it makes a difference) -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Run graphics apps from the command line, but suppress graphics.
On Fri, 2014-12-12 at 16:23 -0800, Michael Rasmussen wrote: > On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 03:43:43PM -0800, Tim Wescott wrote: > > This is a medium-bizarre question, but an answer would be of great help > > to me. I've actually asked it on the Scilab list, but if there's not a > > Scilab answer to it, I'd be happy with a Linux one: > > > > I have some papers that I maintain on my web site, for example: > > http://wescottdesign.com/articles/Sampling/sampling.pdf. > > [snip] > > Is there some way of running a command from a shell that gives the > > command a working X environment (so that it can make the figure), but > > hides that environment from me (so that I can keep designing a circuit, > > answering my mail, or whatever it is that engineers do)? > > Does your desktop environment support multiple virtual desktops? > Can you direct it to use of them while you work in another? > > If so, I don't know how. One of my frustrations with multiple virtual desktops is that if a process on some other desktop creates a window, it almost always comes up on the current window (when it doesn't, it's something important that you did want in your face). So not only do you suffer this problem, but if you launch some slow-starting app, you have to wait on the desktop until it's up, or move it from wherever you went after you started it. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Run graphics apps from the command line, but suppress graphics.
On Fri, 2014-12-12 at 15:56 -0800, Dick Steffens wrote:
> On 12/12/2014 03:43 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
> > This is a medium-bizarre question, but an answer would be of great help
> > to me. I've actually asked it on the Scilab list, but if there's not a
> > Scilab answer to it, I'd be happy with a Linux one:
> >
> > I have some papers that I maintain on my web site, for example:
> > http://wescottdesign.com/articles/Sampling/sampling.pdf.
> >
> > These are authored in lyx, with some figures generated with Scilab. The
> > site is archived as software, and built using a makefile, including the
> > pdf files. Rather than keeping the figures as generated graphics files,
> > I keep the Scilab files and generate the figures as needed.
> >
> > To generate a figure, make runs its generating script from a shell, e.g.
> >
> > scilab -nw -nb -e
> > "execstr(['errcatch(-1,''kill'')';'scf';'exec(''motor-PD-friction.sce'');';'quit'])"
> >
> > Scilab thinks that it's an interactive environment, so when the script
> > makes a figure, Scilab opens the window on top of whatever is running,
> > draws it, then closes it. Since I have several papers on the site (and
> > its growing), this means that I can't leave the make running in the
> > background and get work done, because I'm constantly getting windows
> > created in my face.
> >
> > It's kind of like trying to read in the same room as a cat, except that
> > Scilab figures are not warm and fuzzy, and they do not purr.
> >
> > Scilab does have a "don't use graphics" mode, but if you try to make a
> > graph in that mode it bombs.
> >
> > Is there some way of running a command from a shell that gives the
> > command a working X environment (so that it can make the figure), but
> > hides that environment from me (so that I can keep designing a circuit,
> > answering my mail, or whatever it is that engineers do)?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
>
> Just a popped into my head idea, but could you run it in a different
> workspace?
That's what I did first, and it worked well.
Ultimately, the folks on the Scilab mailing list told me how to suppress
the graph from Scilab, which is both cleaner and faster.
But: THANK YOU ALL for your replies -- I appreciate it.
--
Tim Wescott
www.wescottdesign.com
Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design.
Phone: 503.631.7815
Cell: 503.349.8432
___
PLUG mailing list
PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org
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Re: [PLUG] Run graphics apps from the command line, but suppress graphics.
On Fri, 2014-12-12 at 15:56 -0800, Dick Steffens wrote:
> On 12/12/2014 03:43 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
> > This is a medium-bizarre question, but an answer would be of great help
> > to me. I've actually asked it on the Scilab list, but if there's not a
> > Scilab answer to it, I'd be happy with a Linux one:
> >
> > I have some papers that I maintain on my web site, for example:
> > http://wescottdesign.com/articles/Sampling/sampling.pdf.
> >
> > These are authored in lyx, with some figures generated with Scilab. The
> > site is archived as software, and built using a makefile, including the
> > pdf files. Rather than keeping the figures as generated graphics files,
> > I keep the Scilab files and generate the figures as needed.
> >
> > To generate a figure, make runs its generating script from a shell, e.g.
> >
> > scilab -nw -nb -e
> > "execstr(['errcatch(-1,''kill'')';'scf';'exec(''motor-PD-friction.sce'');';'quit'])"
> >
> > Scilab thinks that it's an interactive environment, so when the script
> > makes a figure, Scilab opens the window on top of whatever is running,
> > draws it, then closes it. Since I have several papers on the site (and
> > its growing), this means that I can't leave the make running in the
> > background and get work done, because I'm constantly getting windows
> > created in my face.
> >
> > It's kind of like trying to read in the same room as a cat, except that
> > Scilab figures are not warm and fuzzy, and they do not purr.
> >
> > Scilab does have a "don't use graphics" mode, but if you try to make a
> > graph in that mode it bombs.
> >
> > Is there some way of running a command from a shell that gives the
> > command a working X environment (so that it can make the figure), but
> > hides that environment from me (so that I can keep designing a circuit,
> > answering my mail, or whatever it is that engineers do)?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
>
> Just a popped into my head idea, but could you run it in a different
> workspace?
>
>
That's definitely a workaround, but it's running right now and it's a
GOOD workaround.
--
Tim Wescott
www.wescottdesign.com
Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design.
Phone: 503.631.7815
Cell: 503.349.8432
___
PLUG mailing list
PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org
http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Run graphics apps from the command line, but suppress graphics.
This is a medium-bizarre question, but an answer would be of great help
to me. I've actually asked it on the Scilab list, but if there's not a
Scilab answer to it, I'd be happy with a Linux one:
I have some papers that I maintain on my web site, for example:
http://wescottdesign.com/articles/Sampling/sampling.pdf.
These are authored in lyx, with some figures generated with Scilab. The
site is archived as software, and built using a makefile, including the
pdf files. Rather than keeping the figures as generated graphics files,
I keep the Scilab files and generate the figures as needed.
To generate a figure, make runs its generating script from a shell, e.g.
scilab -nw -nb -e
"execstr(['errcatch(-1,''kill'')';'scf';'exec(''motor-PD-friction.sce'');';'quit'])"
Scilab thinks that it's an interactive environment, so when the script
makes a figure, Scilab opens the window on top of whatever is running,
draws it, then closes it. Since I have several papers on the site (and
its growing), this means that I can't leave the make running in the
background and get work done, because I'm constantly getting windows
created in my face.
It's kind of like trying to read in the same room as a cat, except that
Scilab figures are not warm and fuzzy, and they do not purr.
Scilab does have a "don't use graphics" mode, but if you try to make a
graph in that mode it bombs.
Is there some way of running a command from a shell that gives the
command a working X environment (so that it can make the figure), but
hides that environment from me (so that I can keep designing a circuit,
answering my mail, or whatever it is that engineers do)?
Thanks in advance.
--
Tim Wescott
www.wescottdesign.com
Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design.
Phone: 503.631.7815
Cell: 503.349.8432
___
PLUG mailing list
PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org
http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Web Hosting
On Tue, 2014-12-02 at 15:28 -0800, King Beowulf wrote: > On 12/02/2014 02:36 PM, Tim Wescott wrote: > > I've had the job of webmaster for my model airplane club thrust upon me. > > This is the site I'll be taking over: www.funflyers.org. > > > > Currently it's just a simple static web site, but with a members-only > > area behind a log-in. The log-in is kind of a hack: there's only one > > user name and password. But there's no real private information in > > there, and it provides a notice to the honest not to go there. > > > > This whole log-in thing will be new to me (oh joy). > > > > My most important question is -- who shall I go with? My knee-jerk > > response is to just go with GoDaddy, because I get all their ads. But > > for some reason, I seem to think that the PLUG crew may have some > > opinions. > > > > If possible I'd rather not get a slice on a server somewhere. Rather, > > I'd really like to get an account with a hosting company, to which I > > just upload HTML files, and do some -- hopefully easy -- messing around > > to affect the login. > > > > Thank you for your suggestions. > > > > Drupal or Django will give you lots of flexibility and better login > systems/account control. There are also lots of F/OSS templates for > these or even plain HTML/CSS. But whatever you do...egad! Not > > Authoring will be in HTML under Eclipse. It may not be the smartest thing, but no, I'm not using FrontPage on this. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Web Hosting
I've had the job of webmaster for my model airplane club thrust upon me. This is the site I'll be taking over: www.funflyers.org. Currently it's just a simple static web site, but with a members-only area behind a log-in. The log-in is kind of a hack: there's only one user name and password. But there's no real private information in there, and it provides a notice to the honest not to go there. This whole log-in thing will be new to me (oh joy). My most important question is -- who shall I go with? My knee-jerk response is to just go with GoDaddy, because I get all their ads. But for some reason, I seem to think that the PLUG crew may have some opinions. If possible I'd rather not get a slice on a server somewhere. Rather, I'd really like to get an account with a hosting company, to which I just upload HTML files, and do some -- hopefully easy -- messing around to affect the login. Thank you for your suggestions. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Junque Mail
An email just made it by SpamAssassin: "Are you in need of replacement windows?" Why no, thank you -- I have Linux! I will now resume regularly scheduled productive work... -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Using less on a growing file
On Thu, 2014-09-25 at 14:52 -0700, Bill Barry wrote: > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Tim Wescott wrote: > > I need to be able to navigate around the whole file, not just look at > > the end. Bill's answer sounds like my solution. > > According to the less man page > will do the same thing as G and might > be easier to remember. > '>' works a charm. Usually I like the command-line stuff, but sometimes it seems like I've misplaced my Secret Decoder Ring. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Using less on a growing file
I need to be able to navigate around the whole file, not just look at the end. Bill's answer sounds like my solution. On Thu, 2014-09-25 at 14:18 -0700, Ronald Bynoe wrote: > Why not just tail -f myfile.txt? > > On Sep 25, 2014 2:17 PM, "Tim Wescott" wrote: > Is there a way to use less, or a less-like viewer, to view a > growing > file such that as the file grows, paging down will get me more > and more > content? > > As far as I can tell, just running 'less myfile.txt', when > myfile.txt is > being written to by another app, seems to just take a snapshot > of > myfile.txt -- I want to be able to look at the full extent of > the file > AS IT GROWS, to monitor ongoing long computations to see how > they're > doing. > > If you're tempted to just answer with "you don't want to do > that" -- no, > I do indeed want to do that, and I have good reason. > > -- > > Tim Wescott > www.wescottdesign.com > Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. > Phone: 503.631.7815 > Cell: 503.349.8432 > > _______ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Using less on a growing file
Is there a way to use less, or a less-like viewer, to view a growing file such that as the file grows, paging down will get me more and more content? As far as I can tell, just running 'less myfile.txt', when myfile.txt is being written to by another app, seems to just take a snapshot of myfile.txt -- I want to be able to look at the full extent of the file AS IT GROWS, to monitor ongoing long computations to see how they're doing. If you're tempted to just answer with "you don't want to do that" -- no, I do indeed want to do that, and I have good reason. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Accounting Software -- anyone doing their books with Linux?
> On May 1, 2014 9:38 AM, "Tim Wescott" wrote: > > > To date, I've been doing my accounting in Peachtree, on Windows XP, in > > Virtual Box, under Linux. > > :: snippity :: Thank you all for your replies so far: please don't stop if you've got something more useful. The notion of doing my books online hadn't occurred to me at all. Goody. Now I have twice as many facets to mull over! -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Accounting Software -- anyone doing their books with Linux?
To date, I've been doing my accounting in Peachtree, on Windows XP, in Virtual Box, under Linux. Windows XP is going out of maintenance, and I'm thinking this is a sterling opportunity to purge that windows-ism from my office. Does anyone use an accounting program under Linux, with or without Wine? My preference is for a program that comes set up for a small business; something that's native-Linux is better, but something that's worked well with Wine is acceptable. I am NOT looking for a suggestion on the lines of "oh, use a spreadsheet (data base, paper ledger, whatever)". Accounting programs get sold for a reason. If that's your input, thanks in advance and please hold it in. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. Phone: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Open source dwg to dxf converter?
Does anyone know of any open-source dwg (native AutoCAD format) to dxf (openly-specified drawing format) converters? I can't seem to find any, which is sensible. But frustrating. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Video editing software -- recommendations?
Title says it: I'm looking for video editing software, preferably freeware. I don't know much about video editing: I know that there is "linear editing" software and "nonlinear editing" software. Whatever that means, I want software that'll let me arbitrarily splice any length chunks of video from any compatible file into the finished job, then independently dub in audio as I see fit. Stills may be nice, a way to do titling would be very nice, special effects like running slow or backward is totally unnecessary. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Linux Laptop Reviews
My Google-Fu fails me. Are there any up-to-date sites that have trustworthy reviews of laptops? Are there any up-to-date sites that have good information on various laptops and their compatibility to Linux? Are there any that do both at once? I'm thinking of replacing my venerable old System 76 machine, for which it is getting hard to find batteries. Given that this thing has carried me for somewhere in the neighborhood of ten years, I'm mightily tempted to go with another System 76, but I'd like to do at least _some_ research first. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Old Ubuntu Iso?
Does anyone know where to get previous-version Ubuntu iso images? I went looking on the Ubuntu website and their "alternate and previous version" site only had alternates -- no previouses. I've got a problem that is either hardware or software, I'd like try the hardware out on 10.04 (on which I know it works, on another machine) before I go and do anything really expensive. TIA. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Ubuntu Upgrade Question
On Fri, 2011-12-02 at 13:19 -0800, John Meissen wrote: > Benjamin Kerensa said: > > 11.10 has had some weird issues with xscreensaver especially in Ubuntu but > > I'm not sure about Xubuntu. I know there has been some changes to the > > upgrade > > tool. > > There are some pretty serious issues with laptops and external monitors. > I refuse to stray off of the LTS releases, but my daughter recently > ugraded from 10.10 to 11.04 and hasn't been able to get an external > monitor to work reliably since. > > For instance... > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/858046 > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-settings/+bug/882143 > https://bugs.launchpad.net/nvidia-drivers-ubuntu/+bug/882134 > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1783636 > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1863987 > > A Google search seems to indicate a number of problems, from Unity vs > "Classic" to the nvidia driver, some of which claim to be fixed, others > still open/unresolved. > > I'll know more when she's home for xmas in a couple of weeks, but for > now I'm recommending she go back to and stay on 10.04 unless there's a > compelling reason for upgrading. 11.04 worked well on both my laptop and my desktop, but on the laptop 11.10 won't turn the backlight back on -- there's no way I'm installing it on my work machine! 11 also lost the ability to switch keyboard maps in the login screen. Since I type in Dvorak and I've got people in the household who use QWERTY, this was a nice feature -- I can use a QWERTY keyboard, but I need to look at my fingers to do so, and it really slows me down. I need to reinstall 11.04 on the laptop, then sit tight for 12.04, or whatever the next LTS release is. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] gEDA tools
LTSpice from Linear Technology is not free-free, but it's free-as-in-beer and it's tuned to run under Wine (it actually detects that it's running under Wine and changes its behavior). It has been 100% trouble-free for me. I prefer it because their algorithms have been completely re-written to optimize for switching supplies, and as a consequence they model RF oscillator start-up much better than other SPICE programs I've used. The only real drawback is that (for some reason!!!) they only include models of Linear Technology ICs, and they don't stay current with all the latest MOSFETs. But it's easy enough to put in someone else's model, if you can get it. Ditto EagleCAD. Also not free-free, but they have a native Linux version, and their free-as-in-beer version is only crippled to the extent that the circuit board is limited in size and to two layers, and doesn't come with an auto-router. Their $$ version is quite nice to use, even if it happens to be at the bottom of the ladder as far as pro EDA software goes. I've been using both of these products professionally for years, and they've served me quite well. On Mon, 2011-12-05 at 21:35 -0800, Denis Heidtmann wrote: > I am trying to do some (rather simple) spice simulations. > > I have all the gEDA packages (ubuntu). gschem (schematic capture) seems to > work, but blurts out many error messages. I have not yet tried to do the > net list (gnetlist) because of those error messages, and I am not sure > which of the myriad of netlist standards I should use. Anybody here have > some experience with these tools? > > Thanks, > > -Denis > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] A Plug for System 76
It was suggested that I contact System 76 about my backlight problem on my old Gazelle laptop. I figured that they'd just blow me off, or send me a polite "we don't support that anymore, BOZO". But no -- I got a polite response with some suggestions showing some genuine concern. They didn't _work_, but clearly those guys _care_, and this for a laptop that's been out of warranty for far longer than it's been in existence. I've had good support experiences with these guys in the past, too, and the laptop is about 65 in Laptop Years (I've owned it for more than seven years, it's gotten knocked around quite a bit, pieces are falling off the case, etc., -- and it still works just fine). So if you want a decent machine that's known to work with Linux, and you're too lazy to build one -- you could do a lot worse than going through System 76. http://www.system76.com. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Ubuntu 11.10 vs. Asus S62FP Laptop
On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 23:11 -0600, Fred James wrote: > Tim Wescott wrote: > > I just upgraded my laptop to Ubuntu 11.10, and whenever I close the lid > > the backlight goes off. > > > > That would be a good thing, except that when I open the lid the backlight > > does not come on. This is new with Ubuntu 11.10. > > > > I've found some web pages that relate similar symptoms with Linux and > > various other laptops, but the diagnosed root causes seem to be all over > > the map, and none of the suggested work-arounds seem to work around the > > problem for me, except for setting 'nomodeset' in grub which messes up my > > screen aspect ratio. > > > > Anyone have any suggestions? > > > Tim Wescott > That is "hibernate", isn't it? ... close the lid and the box goes into > hibernate mode until opened again? Sometimes there is a hibernate > button as well ... sometimes called sleep? > Well, I am not going to be much help ... sorry ... when I had laptops > (Red Hat or Mandriva/Mandrake), hibernate never worked for me either. I > should be interested to hear (and to hear how) if anyone has ever gotten > that to work in Linux. > At one time Red Hat had a laptop specific install ... hibernate may have > worked in that, but I didn't have a laptop at that point, and the laptop > install (as I remember) would not had suited my needs anyway. I think > Mandrake once supported laptop install as well. > Sorry > Regards > Fred James It's not hibernate -- this is just turning the backlight off, but the computer is still running in the background. I've _never_ gotten either suspend or hibernate to work on that machine. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Best GIMP Resource / Corel Draw equivalent
On Fri, 2011-10-28 at 09:51 -0700, Tim Wescott wrote: > These are two questions, but they're both about graphics programs: > > First: > > I've been using GIMP, gradually getting better at retouching photos with > it and such, but I am nowhere near being able to do the sort of things I > see as example GIMP work. > > What's your best recommendation for a good book or online reference for > thoroughly learning GIMP? > > Second: > > My understanding is that GIMP is a pixel-based program, and that things > like Corel Draw are vector based. I have CAD programs (LibreCad is > pretty good), and those are, indeed, vector based, but they're for > making mechanical drawings -- not for making pretty logos and decals and > whatnot. > > So -- is there a good "make it pretty" sort of vector-based graphics > program that's freely available? BTW: I'm starting to use Inkscape, and it's looking to be reasonable. I find it frustrating that Inkscape doesn't let me specify everything from the keyboard (circles and squares, yes -- nodes on a line, no. Grr), but at least I can get things sort of where I want using "snap to grid" (and I suppose I could always try editing the XML by hand, sure thing). -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Ubuntu 11.10 vs. Asus S62FP Laptop
On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 21:13 -0800, Benjamin Kerensa wrote: > On 11/11/2011 08:56 PM, Tim Wescott wrote: > > I just upgraded my laptop to Ubuntu 11.10, and whenever I close the lid > > the backlight goes off. > > > > That would be a good thing, except that when I open the lid the backlight > > does not come on. This is new with Ubuntu 11.10. > > > > I've found some web pages that relate similar symptoms with Linux and > > various other laptops, but the diagnosed root causes seem to be all over > > the map, and none of the suggested work-arounds seem to work around the > > problem for me, except for setting 'nomodeset' in grub which messes up my > > screen aspect ratio. > > > > Anyone have any suggestions? > > > Hi Tim, > > Have you consulted #Ubuntu on Ubuntu IRC or perhaps Forums? I searched the guides, where I found similar problems with other lap tops and older distros (that's where the idea to use "nomodeset" came from, as well as some acpi flags that didn't help). But nothing specific to this one. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Ubuntu 11.10 vs. Asus S62FP Laptop
I just upgraded my laptop to Ubuntu 11.10, and whenever I close the lid the backlight goes off. That would be a good thing, except that when I open the lid the backlight does not come on. This is new with Ubuntu 11.10. I've found some web pages that relate similar symptoms with Linux and various other laptops, but the diagnosed root causes seem to be all over the map, and none of the suggested work-arounds seem to work around the problem for me, except for setting 'nomodeset' in grub which messes up my screen aspect ratio. Anyone have any suggestions? -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consulting http://www.wescottdesign.com Land line: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Local server reseller
Richard's out in the far outskirts of Portland, in rural Missouri or something like that. On Fri, 2011-10-28 at 10:27 -0700, Russell Johnson wrote: > On Oct 28, 2011, at 9:53 AM, Tim Wescott wrote: > > > Does that mean that you have a thriving OS2 user's community out there? > > I'm in Beaverton and I have a Blue Spine OS/2 Warp box… Unopened. > > :) > > Russell Johnson > r...@dimstar.net > > > > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Local server reseller
Does that mean that you have a thriving OS2 user's community out there? On Thu, 2011-10-27 at 20:45 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: > Do they have a web site? > I'm in the "further" suburbs - i.e. "fly over country" > hogs, cattle, and chickens outnumber humans > ANYTHING outnumbers Linux users ;/ > > > > Bill Ensley wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I wanted to pass on a local server recycler that I recently purchased a > > dell server from. > > > > Nice guys, good prices, many kinds of servers, workstations, laptops, > > cables etc available. > > > > If this is inappropriate here, my apologies, just let me know and I will > > not do it again. > > > > -Bill Ensley > > www.bearprinting.com > > > > C& M Recyclers > > Warehouse 11 > > 21175 SW 108th Avenue > > Tualatin, Oregon 97062 > > Were normally open 9 am to 4 pm Monday to Friday. > > We have a 6000 sq, foot warehouse with lots of computer stuff. > > Call ahead to make sure were there before you visit. > > 503-427-1644 - ware house > > 503-341-3348 - My cell > > ___ > > PLUG mailing list > > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > > > > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Best GIMP Resource / Corel Draw equivalent
These are two questions, but they're both about graphics programs: First: I've been using GIMP, gradually getting better at retouching photos with it and such, but I am nowhere near being able to do the sort of things I see as example GIMP work. What's your best recommendation for a good book or online reference for thoroughly learning GIMP? Second: My understanding is that GIMP is a pixel-based program, and that things like Corel Draw are vector based. I have CAD programs (LibreCad is pretty good), and those are, indeed, vector based, but they're for making mechanical drawings -- not for making pretty logos and decals and whatnot. So -- is there a good "make it pretty" sort of vector-based graphics program that's freely available? Thanks. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Upgrade Xubuntu Distribution
On Mon, 2011-08-22 at 12:55 -0700, Rich Shepard wrote: > Well, my friend has managed to yank xfce4's undies into a wedgie. No > window manager running so there's only one frameless window and the settings > manager will not let me invoke xfwm4. There's more that's torqued, too. So, > despite my using xfce for years how to fix this has so far escaped my > efforts and I'll get on the xfce mail list for help with that. > >Back to the distribution upgrade. It keeps telling me that 10.04 is up to > date but I cannot find a menu option to upgrade the distribution. I've a > vague recollection that the command line (when I can actually type something > in the frameless v.t.) is 'apt-get upgrade distribution.' I'm not a ubuntu > user so I don't know if that's the preferred approach. I'm hoping that those > of you who run various flavors of ubuntu will point me in the proper > direction. The graphical way to do this is to go into Synaptic or Upgrade Manager, find where it specifies software sources, and uncheck a box that says "long term support only" or some such. (Yes, my recollection is vague, but this should help if you really need to find it on the web). My personal bias with Ubuntu is a bit extreme. I use upgrades as an excuse for regular house-cleaning: I take one last look at my secondary hard drive to make sure that none of the stuff that I haven't used for years is still of interest to me, then I swap primary and secondary, and I do a clean install of the latest Ubuntu. Then I pull data off my now-secondary drive as needed until the next time I clean house. If I were going to criticize myself for anything, it would be that with hard drive prices the way they are, I should probably archive the old one and go get a brand new primary drive. Not only does this keep the amount of old cruft in my disks to a minimum, but it lets me completely side-step all "breaks on upgrade" issues (which Ubuntu may not have problems with now, but it certainly has in the past). It would certainly be a maximal-force solution to your friend's wedged window manager issue. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Preferred rackmount server brands?
On Mon, 2011-08-15 at 12:16 -0700, plug...@martinconsulting.com wrote: > I need to buy a new rackmount server to run Linux. I want to stay away from > vendors who use proprietary hardware with difficult-to-find Linux drivers > (e.g. Dell, at least in the past). What brands do the fine folks at PLUG > think I should consider? I know _absolutely nothing_ about these folks as a Server vendor: I've bought exactly one PC from them (a laptop), it's been very good to me for _years_, and the one time I had to talk to their support people they were very responsive and polite. But it's another name to toss in the hat: http://www.system76.com/index.php?cPath=29 -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Spreadsheets (was Re: Why Laptop Cannot Find Wireless Networks)
On Thu, 2011-08-04 at 15:57 -0700, Rich Shepard wrote: (intended content snipped) > > >A good thread topic for PLUG-TALK is why those in the Microsoft business > world try to use spreadsheets as databases. Well, the why is pretty obvious, > but retraining them is very difficult. IMO, spreadsheets should be > restricted to the financial people; everyone else learns how to use a > database system. > It's because a spreadsheet is a nice general-purpose tool, and if you have 20 things that you need as a "database" it's a lot easier to set up on a spreadsheet that you know, rather than a database program that you don't. It comes under "Tim's Rule of Complex Solutions" -- any tool that is good at dealing with a Really Complex Problem is going to have a huge initial learning curve, which means that nobody who's an amateur at solving that sort of problem is going to bother with learning the tool. Instead, they'll use a tool that has a low step-up cost for the initial problem, and then stick themselves (and the rest of the world) with the really steep curve to add complexity to it. Files vs. lathes, BASIC (or Java) vs. C or C++, shovels vs. bulldozers -- whatever the problem, there's a quick & easy way to do a small job that scales up really poorly, and an efficient way to do a huge job that scales down really poorly. Spreadsheet programs just exacerbate the problem in that while they're really good for things that can be easily organized in tabular form, you can wedge other problems into them if you hit them with a big enough hammer, and 'everybody' knows how to use them. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] ssh -X me@that
On Mon, 2011-07-25 at 09:36 -0700, Galen Seitz wrote: > Tim Wescott wrote: > > With my latest update (to Ubuntu 11.04), I changed to Evolution from > > Thunderbird. Hopefully this'll end up being a good idea. One of the > > things that indicates that it is is that I can now remote shell into my > > work machine from my laptop and successfully run Evolution. (I used to > > be able to do this with Thunderbird but it broke over a year ago). > > While I agree that you should be able to run Thunderbird(and > Evolution) remotely, you're going to chew up bandwidth shoving > graphics over the network. Not a problem for a LAN, but painful on a > slower network. Are you running an IMAP or POP server? Why not > forward the ports you need over ssh and configure your mail client to > use the forwarded ports? > This is strictly on a LAN. I normally work out of my office in a detached garage, but find it convenient to check email before breakfast and in the evenings from the house. I'm not running any servers -- just using what's available from my ISP. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] ssh -X me@that
With my latest update (to Ubuntu 11.04), I changed to Evolution from Thunderbird. Hopefully this'll end up being a good idea. One of the things that indicates that it is is that I can now remote shell into my work machine from my laptop and successfully run Evolution. (I used to be able to do this with Thunderbird but it broke over a year ago). However, when I do this and run an X program from the command line, on the route back to my local shell I have to type 'exit' at the remote shell, but then I get hung in some sort of limbo, and also have to do a control-C to get my command line back. Is there an easy fix? One that's easier than just hitting control-C every time? TIA... -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Where does Evolution Keep its Brains?
So, I decided with the latest Ubuntu upgrade to try out Evolution, since I've been ignoring it for nearly a dozen revisions now. I messed up my sig line (see below). I want to change it. It's not apparent from the menus that there's either a way to do this, or even if there's a way to blow it away and start over again. It appears that I'm doomed to forever have a "mail_sig" and a "mail_sig_really". Surely this is stored in plain text in a file someplace? I've grepped on the content below and come up with all the mail I've ever sent or received with that sig, but what I haven't come up with is the original. Help?? -- --- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Ubuntu 11.04 Not Starting
I got that far, then I got stuck for quite a while on exactly what to _do_ with it. Eventually I found a bug (in the release notes -- who ever reads those??) that mentioned Unity not starting up correctly with some graphics hardware. Per that bug report, I set my desktop to start as Ubuntu Classic, and all is now working smoothly. I think I need a new graphics card if I want Unity, but I can live without. On 07/18/2011 05:37 PM, Jason Barnett wrote: > If you can get to the GRUB screen, you can select 'recovery mode' then when > the next menu comes up, you'll have the option to run in 'failsafeX' mode. > If you don't have the recovery option in grub, just highlight the line for > ubuntu and hit 'e' wich will allow you to edit it. Then simply find the line > that has 'quiet splash' and replace those words with 'single' and you should > be good to go. > > Good luck! > > Jason > On Jul 18, 2011 12:31 PM, "Tim Wescott" wrote: >> The scene: >> >> My office, lunchtime. >> >> The props: >> >> My old Dell Inspiron 8300, with a hot new copy of Ubuntu 11.04 still >> warm in its CD reader. It's got an ACER x223w LCD display. >> >> The player: >> >> Me, frustrated. >> >> I just installed Ubuntu 11.04 onto my machine, using the usual Ubuntu >> "We'll do everything for you" install. Everything went nicely until the >> last part, where I actually tried to _use_ Ubuntu. The log in screen >> came up just fine, I selected me and entered my password, then it went >> to the 'real' screen, but never got far beyond painting the background. >> I get little rectangles that randomly flash on the screen, as if the >> computer is trying to do something but failing. When I push the power >> button some of these rectangles become the shut-down screen, and if I'm >> quick I can push the "power off" button and the computer will power down >> normally. >> >> Thankfully, I did not blow away my 10.04 installation -- that's what I'm >> writing this missive on. >> >> I get various messages in various log files. The pertinent ones seem to >> be this set, from both syslog and kern.log: >> >> Jul 18 12:05:22 servo kernel: [ 443.158652] compiz[1325]: segfault at >> 34 ip 0137dd75 sp bfcc8110 error 4 in >> libnux-graphics-0.9.so.0.942.4[12e4000+cd000] >> Jul 18 12:05:28 servo kernel: [ 448.911420] compiz[1473]: segfault at >> 34 ip 05e7bd75 sp bfdecd70 error 4 in >> libnux-graphics-0.9.so.0.942.4[5de2000+cd000] >> Jul 18 12:05:33 servo kernel: [ 453.326184] compiz[1534]: segfault at >> 34 ip 0544ed75 sp bfa16e40 error 4 in >> libnux-graphics-0.9.so.0.942.4[53b5000+cd000] >> Jul 18 12:05:37 servo kernel: [ 457.442759] compiz[1550]: segfault at >> 34 ip 0732ed75 sp bff463b0 error 4 in >> libnux-graphics-0.9.so.0.942.4[7295000+cd000] >> >> Accompanied by this set, from Xorg.0.log: >> >> [ 431.479] Warning: Xalloc: requesting unpleasantly large amount of >> memory: 0 bytes. >> [ 443.246] Warning: Xalloc: requesting unpleasantly large amount of >> memory: 0 bytes. >> [ 444.234] Warning: Xalloc: requesting unpleasantly large amount of >> memory: 0 bytes. >> [ 449.064] Warning: Xalloc: requesting unpleasantly large amount of >> memory: 0 bytes. >> >> I've done just a bit of web searching, and I did run into complaints (on >> a Fedora forum) that this may have something to do with the monitor not >> properly communicating its size. >> >> I assume that what's happening is that the install CD and the login >> screen both use some sort of safe graphics mode, but that the real >> screen tries to switch to some nifty cool-o 'way-best' mode and causes >> the hemi-hang. >> >> So: >> >> Anyone know what's going on? Failing that, does anyone know how I can >> configure 11.04 to come up in safe mode when I log on? They've worked >> so hard to make it safe for grandma to use that when something they >> didn't expect happens, it don't work at all! >> >> TIA >> >> -- >> Tim Wescott >> Wescott Design Services >> Voice: 503-631-7815 >> Cell: 503-349-8432 >> http://www.wescottdesign.com >> >> >> ___ >> PLUG mailing list >> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Ubuntu 11.04 Not Starting
The scene: My office, lunchtime. The props: My old Dell Inspiron 8300, with a hot new copy of Ubuntu 11.04 still warm in its CD reader. It's got an ACER x223w LCD display. The player: Me, frustrated. I just installed Ubuntu 11.04 onto my machine, using the usual Ubuntu "We'll do everything for you" install. Everything went nicely until the last part, where I actually tried to _use_ Ubuntu. The log in screen came up just fine, I selected me and entered my password, then it went to the 'real' screen, but never got far beyond painting the background. I get little rectangles that randomly flash on the screen, as if the computer is trying to do something but failing. When I push the power button some of these rectangles become the shut-down screen, and if I'm quick I can push the "power off" button and the computer will power down normally. Thankfully, I did not blow away my 10.04 installation -- that's what I'm writing this missive on. I get various messages in various log files. The pertinent ones seem to be this set, from both syslog and kern.log: Jul 18 12:05:22 servo kernel: [ 443.158652] compiz[1325]: segfault at 34 ip 0137dd75 sp bfcc8110 error 4 in libnux-graphics-0.9.so.0.942.4[12e4000+cd000] Jul 18 12:05:28 servo kernel: [ 448.911420] compiz[1473]: segfault at 34 ip 05e7bd75 sp bfdecd70 error 4 in libnux-graphics-0.9.so.0.942.4[5de2000+cd000] Jul 18 12:05:33 servo kernel: [ 453.326184] compiz[1534]: segfault at 34 ip 0544ed75 sp bfa16e40 error 4 in libnux-graphics-0.9.so.0.942.4[53b5000+cd000] Jul 18 12:05:37 servo kernel: [ 457.442759] compiz[1550]: segfault at 34 ip 0732ed75 sp bff463b0 error 4 in libnux-graphics-0.9.so.0.942.4[7295000+cd000] Accompanied by this set, from Xorg.0.log: [ 431.479] Warning: Xalloc: requesting unpleasantly large amount of memory: 0 bytes. [ 443.246] Warning: Xalloc: requesting unpleasantly large amount of memory: 0 bytes. [ 444.234] Warning: Xalloc: requesting unpleasantly large amount of memory: 0 bytes. [ 449.064] Warning: Xalloc: requesting unpleasantly large amount of memory: 0 bytes. I've done just a bit of web searching, and I did run into complaints (on a Fedora forum) that this may have something to do with the monitor not properly communicating its size. I assume that what's happening is that the install CD and the login screen both use some sort of safe graphics mode, but that the real screen tries to switch to some nifty cool-o 'way-best' mode and causes the hemi-hang. So: Anyone know what's going on? Failing that, does anyone know how I can configure 11.04 to come up in safe mode when I log on? They've worked so hard to make it safe for grandma to use that when something they didn't expect happens, it don't work at all! TIA -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] USB Serial Port Adapters
... and I figured out my terminal program. It doesn't _see_ links, but it can _use_ them (and if I get my serial settings right, things even work! :) ) On 06/20/2011 01:33 PM, Tim Wescott wrote: > Thanks. This is exactly the guidance I was looking for. My preferred > terminal program doesn't seem to understand links to devices, but I'll cope. > > On 06/18/2011 09:49 AM, Jason Barnett wrote: >> Here is a link that gives an example of this exact situation. The example >> shows using a FTDI chip and having the UDEV rule compare against the serial >> number of the device so it should work for specific devices. >> >> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Bus_pirate >> >> Jason >> >> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Fred Jameswrote: >> >>> Jackman wrote: >>>> Why can't udev rules be applied here? >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Fred James >>> wrote: >>>>> Tim Wescott wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> (omissions for brevity) >>>>>> I did an experiment: I started with my Fax >>>>>> modem and the board I'm developing plugged in. I did ls /dev/ttyU*. >>>>>> Then I unplugged the development board and did ls again. Then I >>> plugged >>>>>> in a debugger that has its own USB serial port adapter, and did ls >>>>>> again. Here's my results: >>>>>> >>>>>> tim@servo:~$ ls /dev/ttyU* >>>>>> /dev/ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyUSB1 >>>>>> tim@servo:~$ ls /dev/ttyU* >>>>>> /dev/ttyUSB0 >>>>>> tim@servo:~$ ls /dev/ttyU* >>>>>> /dev/ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyUSB1 >>>>>> >>>>>> What _did_ happen is that at different times the same device -- ttyUSB1 >>>>>> -- got mapped to different physical devices. That is what I _do not_ >>>>>> want to happen. What I want to happen is to plug in the development >>>>>> board and have /dev/ttyUSBdevelop appear, and to plug in the debugger >>>>>> and have /dev/ttyUSBdebug appear (or some similar me-defined mapping). >>>>>> Different devices. Different, _unique_, identifiers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Otherwise, every time I plug a bunch of stuff in to the machine, I'm >>>>>> going to have to do a bunch of hand work to figure out what ports map >>> to >>>>>> what devices at the moment. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Tim Wescott >>>>> Thought 1: If you can use CLI (command line interface) to determine >>>>> what you need to know, then a (BASH) script can be written to do that. >>>>> Thought 2: If a device can be identified (example: ttyUSB1 is the >>>>> debugger), then it can be mounted to a directory (example: ~/debugger) >>>>> Thought 3: If 1 and if 2, then the two can be written together in a >>> script. >>>>> Does any of that help? >>>>> Regards >>>>> Fred James >>>>> >>> Jackman >>> According to<http://reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html#about>, it >>> can ... >>> " >>> >>> udev rules are flexible and very powerful. Here are some of the things >>> you can use rules to achieve: >>> >>> * Rename a device node from the default name to something else >>> * Provide an alternative/persistent name for a device node by >>>creating a symbolic link to the default device node >>> * Name a device node based on the output of a program >>> * Change permissions and ownership of a device node >>> * Launch a script when a device node is created or deleted >>>(typically when a device is attached or unplugged) >>> * Rename network interfaces >>> >>> " >>> Regards >>> Fred James >>> >>> ___ >>> PLUG mailing list >>> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >>> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >>> >> ___ >> PLUG mailing list >> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >> > -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] USB Serial Port Adapters
Thanks. This is exactly the guidance I was looking for. My preferred terminal program doesn't seem to understand links to devices, but I'll cope. On 06/18/2011 09:49 AM, Jason Barnett wrote: > Here is a link that gives an example of this exact situation. The example > shows using a FTDI chip and having the UDEV rule compare against the serial > number of the device so it should work for specific devices. > > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Bus_pirate > > Jason > > On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Fred Jameswrote: > >> Jackman wrote: >>> Why can't udev rules be applied here? >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Fred James >> wrote: >>>> Tim Wescott wrote: >>>> >>>>> (omissions for brevity) >>>>>I did an experiment: I started with my Fax >>>>> modem and the board I'm developing plugged in. I did ls /dev/ttyU*. >>>>> Then I unplugged the development board and did ls again. Then I >> plugged >>>>> in a debugger that has its own USB serial port adapter, and did ls >>>>> again. Here's my results: >>>>> >>>>> tim@servo:~$ ls /dev/ttyU* >>>>> /dev/ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyUSB1 >>>>> tim@servo:~$ ls /dev/ttyU* >>>>> /dev/ttyUSB0 >>>>> tim@servo:~$ ls /dev/ttyU* >>>>> /dev/ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyUSB1 >>>>> >>>>> What _did_ happen is that at different times the same device -- ttyUSB1 >>>>> -- got mapped to different physical devices. That is what I _do not_ >>>>> want to happen. What I want to happen is to plug in the development >>>>> board and have /dev/ttyUSBdevelop appear, and to plug in the debugger >>>>> and have /dev/ttyUSBdebug appear (or some similar me-defined mapping). >>>>> Different devices. Different, _unique_, identifiers. >>>>> >>>>> Otherwise, every time I plug a bunch of stuff in to the machine, I'm >>>>> going to have to do a bunch of hand work to figure out what ports map >> to >>>>> what devices at the moment. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Tim Wescott >>>> Thought 1: If you can use CLI (command line interface) to determine >>>> what you need to know, then a (BASH) script can be written to do that. >>>> Thought 2: If a device can be identified (example: ttyUSB1 is the >>>> debugger), then it can be mounted to a directory (example: ~/debugger) >>>> Thought 3: If 1 and if 2, then the two can be written together in a >> script. >>>> Does any of that help? >>>> Regards >>>> Fred James >>>> >> Jackman >> According to<http://reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html#about>, it >> can ... >> " >> >> udev rules are flexible and very powerful. Here are some of the things >> you can use rules to achieve: >> >> * Rename a device node from the default name to something else >> * Provide an alternative/persistent name for a device node by >> creating a symbolic link to the default device node >> * Name a device node based on the output of a program >> * Change permissions and ownership of a device node >> * Launch a script when a device node is created or deleted >> (typically when a device is attached or unplugged) >> * Rename network interfaces >> >> " >> Regards >> Fred James >> >> ___ >> PLUG mailing list >> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >> > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] USB Serial Port Adapters
On 06/17/2011 04:46 PM, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Fri, 17 Jun 2011, Tim Wescott wrote: > >> Is there a way to map specific USB serial port adapters to specific device >> names? > Tim, > > Yep. > >> As far as I know, as I plug USB serial port adapters into the system >> they'll appear as ttyUSB0, ttyUSB1, etc., in the order that I plug them >> in. > They tend to appear as pairs; e.g., ttyUSB0 and ttyUSB1. > >> But I want to have them show up as "ttyUSBcamera", "ttyUSBdata_aq", etc., >> or something similar -- so that when I plug in a _specific_ hardware >> device, it maps to a specific device in the /dev directory. > I used to have /dev/pilot defined for syncing my Palm (now Treo 700p), but > that went away with the advent of udev. However, hardware does show up on > consistent devices. For example, jpilot is set to connect on /dev/ttyUSB1, > my thumb drives are defined in /etc/fstab as: > > /dev/sdb /mnt/thumb vfatnoauto,users,rw 0 0 > /dev/sdc /mnt/flashdrive vfatnoauto,users,rw 0 0 > > which depends on which USB hole I use for it. I think you misunderstand. I did an experiment: I started with my Fax modem and the board I'm developing plugged in. I did ls /dev/ttyU*. Then I unplugged the development board and did ls again. Then I plugged in a debugger that has its own USB serial port adapter, and did ls again. Here's my results: tim@servo:~$ ls /dev/ttyU* /dev/ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyUSB1 tim@servo:~$ ls /dev/ttyU* /dev/ttyUSB0 tim@servo:~$ ls /dev/ttyU* /dev/ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyUSB1 What _did_ happen is that at different times the same device -- ttyUSB1 -- got mapped to different physical devices. That is what I _do not_ want to happen. What I want to happen is to plug in the development board and have /dev/ttyUSBdevelop appear, and to plug in the debugger and have /dev/ttyUSBdebug appear (or some similar me-defined mapping). Different devices. Different, _unique_, identifiers. Otherwise, every time I plug a bunch of stuff in to the machine, I'm going to have to do a bunch of hand work to figure out what ports map to what devices at the moment. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] USB Serial Port Adapters
Is there a way to map specific USB serial port adapters to specific device names? As far as I know, as I plug USB serial port adapters into the system they'll appear as ttyUSB0, ttyUSB1, etc., in the order that I plug them in. But I want to have them show up as "ttyUSBcamera", "ttyUSBdata_aq", etc., or something similar -- so that when I plug in a _specific_ hardware device, it maps to a specific device in the /dev directory. Is there a way to do this? Looking at lsusb for the devices (all FT232 at the moment, but who knows?) the only unique thing is the serial number. Is there a configuration file that I can use to associate hardware serial numbers with specific devices in my /dev directory? Thanks. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Evince and Fonts
I'm looking at a data sheet for a transistor with Evince, and it's rendering Greek letters incorrectly. Lower case mu is rendering as an infinity symbol, and upper case omega as a vertical line. Fortunately there aren't any others in there to confuse me, at least at the moment. Presumably this is because the font used isn't stored in the pdf, and whatever is default on Ubuntu 10.04 is different from whatever is default on Windows. Has anyone else seen this effect? Is there a way to fix or work around it? -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Good PDF Editor
On 06/01/2011 08:27 AM, Tim Wescott wrote: > On 05/31/2011 10:52 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: >> On Tue, 31 May 2011 21:20:18 -0700 >> Tim Wescott dijo: >> >>> On 05/26/2011 04:53 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: >>>> On Thu, 26 May 2011 16:41:47 -0700 >>>> Mark Phillipsdijo: >>>> >>>>> I have found Scribus to be the best. It is not a pdf editor per se, >>>>> but if you want to add information to a pdf file, you bring the pdf >>>>> in as an image then insert text fields in the places you want to add >>>>> text. Can also add graphics, or make drawings, etc. Then export as a >>>>> pdf and it is all there in one pdf. Works well for filling out >>>>> forms, signing pdfs, etc. I never could get pdfedit to work for me, >>>>> and gimp is harder to deal with than Scribus. It is in the Debian >>>>> repository, so I assume it is in others. >>>> Scribus is what I used to use until I found xournal. You open the >>>> PDF in xournal, then you can add text, lines, objects and shading, >>>> among a few other things. You can save it as an xournal file, or as >>>> a new PDF. And xournal pays little attention to restrictions in the >>>> original PDF file. It's just a simple little light applet that works >>>> perfectly for filling out PDF forms, whether the PDF was created to >>>> be editable or not. >>> You add objects as in graphics? I can't see how to do this. (xournal >>> 0.4.5, on Ubuntu 8.04). >> No, xournal cannot add graphics. You can make your own "graphics" with >> xournal - shapes, lines, etc. But you cannot import graphics from >> outside. Xournal is mostly designed for markup. If you have a form to >> fill out that the creator stupidly did not make as an editable PDF >> xournal lets you enter text boxes over the blanks. You can also >> highlight and a few other things. But it can only add its own native >> objects. > I can stop looking, then. >> If I need to add a graphic on top of a PDF I use Scribus. There may be >> other, simpler tools that will do so, but since I know Scribus it's >> simpler for the rare times I need to add a graphic to a PDF. >> >> And note that neither xournal nor Scribus can actually edit the PDF. >> All they can do is open the PDF and let you place things on top of the >> PDF, then resave as a new PDF. > That part is OK -- I'm electronically replicating the "print it out, > sign it, scan it in, email it" routine with new contracts. All I need > in the end is a facsimile of the original document with my signature > attached, that I can email to a client. > Scribus barfs at my pdf file -- says it's an unacceptable format. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Good PDF Editor
On 05/31/2011 10:52 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Tue, 31 May 2011 21:20:18 -0700 > Tim Wescott dijo: > >> On 05/26/2011 04:53 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: >>> On Thu, 26 May 2011 16:41:47 -0700 >>> Mark Phillips dijo: >>> >>>> I have found Scribus to be the best. It is not a pdf editor per se, >>>> but if you want to add information to a pdf file, you bring the pdf >>>> in as an image then insert text fields in the places you want to add >>>> text. Can also add graphics, or make drawings, etc. Then export as a >>>> pdf and it is all there in one pdf. Works well for filling out >>>> forms, signing pdfs, etc. I never could get pdfedit to work for me, >>>> and gimp is harder to deal with than Scribus. It is in the Debian >>>> repository, so I assume it is in others. >>> Scribus is what I used to use until I found xournal. You open the >>> PDF in xournal, then you can add text, lines, objects and shading, >>> among a few other things. You can save it as an xournal file, or as >>> a new PDF. And xournal pays little attention to restrictions in the >>> original PDF file. It's just a simple little light applet that works >>> perfectly for filling out PDF forms, whether the PDF was created to >>> be editable or not. >> You add objects as in graphics? I can't see how to do this. (xournal >> 0.4.5, on Ubuntu 8.04). > No, xournal cannot add graphics. You can make your own "graphics" with > xournal - shapes, lines, etc. But you cannot import graphics from > outside. Xournal is mostly designed for markup. If you have a form to > fill out that the creator stupidly did not make as an editable PDF > xournal lets you enter text boxes over the blanks. You can also > highlight and a few other things. But it can only add its own native > objects. I can stop looking, then. > If I need to add a graphic on top of a PDF I use Scribus. There may be > other, simpler tools that will do so, but since I know Scribus it's > simpler for the rare times I need to add a graphic to a PDF. > > And note that neither xournal nor Scribus can actually edit the PDF. > All they can do is open the PDF and let you place things on top of the > PDF, then resave as a new PDF. That part is OK -- I'm electronically replicating the "print it out, sign it, scan it in, email it" routine with new contracts. All I need in the end is a facsimile of the original document with my signature attached, that I can email to a client. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Good PDF Editor
On 05/26/2011 04:53 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Thu, 26 May 2011 16:41:47 -0700 > Mark Phillips dijo: > >> I have found Scribus to be the best. It is not a pdf editor per se, >> but if you want to add information to a pdf file, you bring the pdf in >> as an image then insert text fields in the places you want to add >> text. Can also add graphics, or make drawings, etc. Then export as a >> pdf and it is all there in one pdf. Works well for filling out forms, >> signing pdfs, etc. I never could get pdfedit to work for me, and gimp >> is harder to deal with than Scribus. It is in the Debian repository, >> so I assume it is in others. > Scribus is what I used to use until I found xournal. You open the PDF in > xournal, then you can add text, lines, objects and shading, among a few > other things. You can save it as an xournal file, or as a new PDF. And > xournal pays little attention to restrictions in the original PDF file. > It's just a simple little light applet that works perfectly for filling > out PDF forms, whether the PDF was created to be editable or not. You add objects as in graphics? I can't see how to do this. (xournal 0.4.5, on Ubuntu 8.04). -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Good PDF Editor
I took a look, and it's nice but it doesn't let me drop graphics into the pdf, at least as far as I could tell. On 05/26/2011 03:23 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Thu, 26 May 2011 13:10:57 -0700 > Tim Wescott dijo: > >> Subject says most of it: I'm looking for a good PDF editor. Adobe >> appears to have introduced yet another "improvement", which means that >> the one I use now can read the files, but can't extract pages. >> >> I often get contracts in PDF format; rather than printing, signing, >> scanning, etc., I'd rather just drop my signature and the date into >> the contract. >> >> I haven't tried printing to PDF yet to see if the blockage is stripped >> -- short of that, are there better open-source PDF editors than >> PDFEdit? > Try xournal. On my Fedora 14 computer it is in the standard repos. > ___________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Good PDF Editor
Subject says most of it: I'm looking for a good PDF editor. Adobe appears to have introduced yet another "improvement", which means that the one I use now can read the files, but can't extract pages. I often get contracts in PDF format; rather than printing, signing, scanning, etc., I'd rather just drop my signature and the date into the contract. I haven't tried printing to PDF yet to see if the blockage is stripped -- short of that, are there better open-source PDF editors than PDFEdit? -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Job-ish
A former client of mine has an embedded Linux application that's having problems talking to a wireless Ethernet module. Apparently it's connecting fine, but is dropping connections unexpectedly. If anyone here in the Portland area knows their way around the Linux kernel and needs a consulting gig, drop me a line and I'll forward your info. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Where does Ubuntu keep it's brains?
Thank you, that was it -- once I got my capitalization right. I dunno why it didn't pop up in 'find'. Oh well -- problem solved. On 07/18/2010 05:21 PM, dan wrote: > /etc/X11/xorg.conf > > > On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Tim Wescott wrote: > > >> The xorg.conf file would be Ubuntu's brains, yes? >> >> Where is it? >> >> I've tried 'find', and it doesn't pop up. >> >> On 07/18/2010 05:06 PM, dan wrote: >> >>> Have you tried editing the xorg.conf file? >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Tim Wescott >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>> I'm still trying to decide if letting #1 son know of the existence of >>>> FreeGeek was a good idea. >>>> >>>> After running around swapping parts between his GeekBox and the family >>>> computer (AKA the Handy Pile of Parts) he's left me with a quirk in the >>>> family computer -- it used to have an Nvidia card in it, which he >>>> claimed. Ubuntu would boot, but bitched severely about the lack of the >>>> Nvidia card and wouldn't reconfigure itself as advertised. I tried >>>> uninstalling the Nvidia driver, hoping that would fix up the >>>> configuration files -- it doesn't; now Ubuntu bitches that it can't find >>>> the driver. >>>> >>>> Argh. >>>> >>>> So, how do I tell Ubuntu Karmic that it isn't supposed to load the >>>> Nvidia kernel module any more? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tim Wescott >>>> Wescott Design Services >>>> Voice: 503-631-7815 >>>> Cell: 503-349-8432 >>>> http://www.wescottdesign.com >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> PLUG mailing list >>>> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >>>> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______ >>> PLUG mailing list >>> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >>> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Tim Wescott >> Wescott Design Services >> Voice: 503-631-7815 >> Cell: 503-349-8432 >> http://www.wescottdesign.com >> >> >> ___ >> PLUG mailing list >> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >> >> > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Where does Ubuntu keep it's brains?
Oops: /etc/X11 On 07/18/2010 06:52 PM, Tim Wescott wrote: > Ubuntu, in an effort to Appelize Linux, has moved everything: > > t...@fawkes:~$ ls /etc/x11 > ls: cannot access /etc/x11: No such file or directory > > That's why I was asking... > > On 07/18/2010 05:21 PM, dan wrote: > >> /etc/X11/xorg.conf >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Tim Wescott wrote: >> >> >> >>> The xorg.conf file would be Ubuntu's brains, yes? >>> >>> Where is it? >>> >>> I've tried 'find', and it doesn't pop up. >>> >>> On 07/18/2010 05:06 PM, dan wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Have you tried editing the xorg.conf file? >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Tim Wescott >>>> >>>> >>>wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I'm still trying to decide if letting #1 son know of the existence of >>>>> FreeGeek was a good idea. >>>>> >>>>> After running around swapping parts between his GeekBox and the family >>>>> computer (AKA the Handy Pile of Parts) he's left me with a quirk in the >>>>> family computer -- it used to have an Nvidia card in it, which he >>>>> claimed. Ubuntu would boot, but bitched severely about the lack of the >>>>> Nvidia card and wouldn't reconfigure itself as advertised. I tried >>>>> uninstalling the Nvidia driver, hoping that would fix up the >>>>> configuration files -- it doesn't; now Ubuntu bitches that it can't find >>>>> the driver. >>>>> >>>>> Argh. >>>>> >>>>> So, how do I tell Ubuntu Karmic that it isn't supposed to load the >>>>> Nvidia kernel module any more? >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tim Wescott >>>>> Wescott Design Services >>>>> Voice: 503-631-7815 >>>>> Cell: 503-349-8432 >>>>> http://www.wescottdesign.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ___ >>>>> PLUG mailing list >>>>> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >>>>> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ___ >>>> PLUG mailing list >>>> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >>>> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Tim Wescott >>> Wescott Design Services >>> Voice: 503-631-7815 >>> Cell: 503-349-8432 >>> http://www.wescottdesign.com >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> PLUG mailing list >>> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >>> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >>> >>> >>> >> ___ >> PLUG mailing list >> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >> >> >> > > -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Where does Ubuntu keep it's brains?
Ubuntu, in an effort to Appelize Linux, has moved everything: t...@fawkes:~$ ls /etc/x11 ls: cannot access /etc/x11: No such file or directory That's why I was asking... On 07/18/2010 05:21 PM, dan wrote: > /etc/X11/xorg.conf > > > On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Tim Wescott wrote: > > >> The xorg.conf file would be Ubuntu's brains, yes? >> >> Where is it? >> >> I've tried 'find', and it doesn't pop up. >> >> On 07/18/2010 05:06 PM, dan wrote: >> >>> Have you tried editing the xorg.conf file? >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Tim Wescott >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>> I'm still trying to decide if letting #1 son know of the existence of >>>> FreeGeek was a good idea. >>>> >>>> After running around swapping parts between his GeekBox and the family >>>> computer (AKA the Handy Pile of Parts) he's left me with a quirk in the >>>> family computer -- it used to have an Nvidia card in it, which he >>>> claimed. Ubuntu would boot, but bitched severely about the lack of the >>>> Nvidia card and wouldn't reconfigure itself as advertised. I tried >>>> uninstalling the Nvidia driver, hoping that would fix up the >>>> configuration files -- it doesn't; now Ubuntu bitches that it can't find >>>> the driver. >>>> >>>> Argh. >>>> >>>> So, how do I tell Ubuntu Karmic that it isn't supposed to load the >>>> Nvidia kernel module any more? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tim Wescott >>>> Wescott Design Services >>>> Voice: 503-631-7815 >>>> Cell: 503-349-8432 >>>> http://www.wescottdesign.com >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> PLUG mailing list >>>> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >>>> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______ >>> PLUG mailing list >>> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >>> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Tim Wescott >> Wescott Design Services >> Voice: 503-631-7815 >> Cell: 503-349-8432 >> http://www.wescottdesign.com >> >> >> ___ >> PLUG mailing list >> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >> >> > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Where does Ubuntu keep it's brains?
How do I blacklist the kernal module? How do I update initramfs? On 07/18/2010 04:45 PM, Daniel Hückmann wrote: > Blacklist the kernel module and then update initramfs? > > Daniel Hückmann - Sophsec Intrusion Labs - Silicon Forest (PDX) > -- > http://www.google.com/profiles/sanitybit > http://twitter.com/sanitybit > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Tim Wescott wrote: > >> Argh. >> >> So, how do I tell Ubuntu Karmic that it isn't supposed to load the >> Nvidia kernel module any more? >> > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Where does Ubuntu keep it's brains?
The xorg.conf file would be Ubuntu's brains, yes? Where is it? I've tried 'find', and it doesn't pop up. On 07/18/2010 05:06 PM, dan wrote: > Have you tried editing the xorg.conf file? > > On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Tim Wescott wrote: > > >> I'm still trying to decide if letting #1 son know of the existence of >> FreeGeek was a good idea. >> >> After running around swapping parts between his GeekBox and the family >> computer (AKA the Handy Pile of Parts) he's left me with a quirk in the >> family computer -- it used to have an Nvidia card in it, which he >> claimed. Ubuntu would boot, but bitched severely about the lack of the >> Nvidia card and wouldn't reconfigure itself as advertised. I tried >> uninstalling the Nvidia driver, hoping that would fix up the >> configuration files -- it doesn't; now Ubuntu bitches that it can't find >> the driver. >> >> Argh. >> >> So, how do I tell Ubuntu Karmic that it isn't supposed to load the >> Nvidia kernel module any more? >> >> -- >> Tim Wescott >> Wescott Design Services >> Voice: 503-631-7815 >> Cell: 503-349-8432 >> http://www.wescottdesign.com >> >> >> ___ >> PLUG mailing list >> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >> >> > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Where does Ubuntu keep it's brains?
I'm still trying to decide if letting #1 son know of the existence of FreeGeek was a good idea. After running around swapping parts between his GeekBox and the family computer (AKA the Handy Pile of Parts) he's left me with a quirk in the family computer -- it used to have an Nvidia card in it, which he claimed. Ubuntu would boot, but bitched severely about the lack of the Nvidia card and wouldn't reconfigure itself as advertised. I tried uninstalling the Nvidia driver, hoping that would fix up the configuration files -- it doesn't; now Ubuntu bitches that it can't find the driver. Argh. So, how do I tell Ubuntu Karmic that it isn't supposed to load the Nvidia kernel module any more? -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Favorite Backup Systems?
Rich Shepard wrote: > On Fri, 21 May 2010, Tim Wescott wrote: > > >> What is your preferred backup system? >> Suggestions? >> > >Dirvish <http://www.dirvish.org/>. > >The docs are a bit obtuse, but the help on the mail list is outstanding. > I switched from tape to an external, USB hard drive (300G currently) and use > dirvish running daily from root's crontab. > >I used to make weekly full backups and daily incremental backups; now each > night's backup (using rsync) are the changes from the night before. You can > restore the system to any prior state (or restore individual files) as long > as you have them on the drive. You can exclude filesystems (e.g., /tmp) > where files disappear so they don't have a revised version for dirvish to > find and copy. You can set expiration periods however you want; I keep daily > backups for 2 weeks and full backups for a month. Keith keeps everything > forever. > >While you'll spend time getting your head around how it works and setting > up banks (hosts), vaults (filesystems), the initial storage drive directory > setup, and initial images, it's worth the effort. Once that's done you'll > have complete images of your systems ... as long as you remember to turn on > the backup drive each evening. :-) > Dirvish.org lists version 1.2.1 "Baby step incremental" and 1.3.1 "Experimental only". The web site doesn't seem to have been updated since 2008. And I recall a talk that Kieth gave a _long_ time ago pointing out that Dirvish had trouble with USB drives. My intent is to keep two USB drives, and swap which one is plugged into the server every night. Since my office lives in a detached garage I want to take advantage of the fire protection and back up from a server in the house -- this way if one or the other buildings burns down I'll still have a copy of my data. Alternating between the two backup disks will give me extra protection if one or the other takes a dump (I remember that Kieth does this, it sounded like a good idea at today's disk prices). If possible I'd like to bring several other computers -- including the server -- into the fold. Wife and elder son both have laptops, even if they are Windows machines, and there's a "family" computer that gets heavily used by younger son. I'd like them to be able to back up to their own spaces. So -- you still recommending Dirvish? -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Favorite Backup Systems?
I'm way bad -- it's been ages since I've backed up my machine, and my it's gotten big in there! I'm backing up now just by copying to CD -- but those CD's have gotten awfully small now that customers are sending me multiple 100-MB files of data. Ubuntu has a bunch of backup options; I'd like to choose one that does what I need without having so many cool options that I spend a year experimenting with all the wrong ways to do it before I hit on the one that actually works. What is your preferred backup system? I'd like something that supports a scheme that lets me do a monthly complete backup with daily incrementals. I'd like to be able to tag certain directories as "don't back up". Something that could backup to a remote disk would be nice, but not essential. Automatic backup, at least for the incrementals, would be especially nice, as I'm absent minded. Also nice would be something that lets me plug a big USB disk into the cruddy old laptop that I'm using as a server (stupid, I know -- I'll replace it when it dies). I'm thinking that one way or another I want to use a two- or three-disk backup system, so that if any one of them dies I'll be left with a fairly recent image of my computer. Suggestions? -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] gcc & archives
I dimly remember reading some compiler manual, where there was a command-line argument or some language enhancement that would make the compiler emit a library with each function as a separate entity. Similar to making your own set of 10-line 'c' files, then compiling them all, then making a library. I thought it was gcc -- but it was a long long time ago. Am I all wet? Do I have to do this the old fashioned way? -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Loca lBlog: Portland looking at open source
Jim Karlock wrote: > from: http://bojack.org/2010/05/portland_city_hall_computers_e.html > > > Portland City Hall + computers = endless fun > > <http://cityofportland.ebidsystems.com/public/solicitationdetail.asp?solicitation=OMF059>Here's > > <http://cityofportland.ebidsystems.com/public/solicitationdetail.asp?solicitation=OMF059> > > an odd one out of the Portland fire bureau. They're going on a > fishing expedition to see if they can find somebody to convert the > bureau computer system from some homegrown products created using a > now-obsolete Microsoft program to open source software. But they're > not even offering a contract at this point -- they just want some > free advice in the form of "information" to be submitted by potential > future contract bidders. You, of course, never go into Sears or Fry's, look at their stuff, talk to their sales people, use their restrooms, then go buy something from someone else entirely. Of course they're fishing for info! They probably have absolutely no clue about how hard the job is, or where they can find someone who knows Visual Basic (eugh!) well enough to convert it to Python or whatever is appropriate, or what the rough magnitude of the task is, or anything. Whenever I'm in that situation the first thing I do is call up salespeople and consume their valuable time looking for rough order of magnitude estimates (which can be hard to get: "gimme a ballpark estimate" "I'm sorry sir, but we have to come out and look at your house and..." "tell me if it's going to be $1000, $3000, $1, etc." "Oh! you can expect it to be between X and Y, then"). I wish them well. I wonder how ugly the code is? -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Advisability of changing shell redirect
Russell Senior wrote: >>>>>> "Russell" == Russell Senior writes: >>>>>> > > >>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Wescott writes: >>>>>> > Tim> Damn but I wish I could find their source code. "Open source" > Tim> indeed. > > Russell> This isn't going to help you much, but when I was screwing > Russell> around with this last autumn, I just built crosstools from > Russell> the bog-standard source tarballs. I found instructions for > Russell> building the cross-tools without too much trouble, but I > Russell> don't remember exactly where now. [...] > > I am pretty sure these were the instructions I used: > > http://ecos.sourceware.org/ecos/build-toolchain.html > > > I will give it a try. I'm not good at memorizing lots of odd keystroke combinations, so I vastly prefer Insight to GDB. I've heard stories that the official 'newlib' has arm-related bugs -- but I'll just give it a whirl and see. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Advisability of changing shell redirect
Tim wrote: >> I'm thinking that I'll just change the link, install the software, try >> it out, then change the link back -- in hopes that the only scripts that >> cause problems are in their install. >> > > I would advise changing the link in the way they describe with > dpkg-reconfigure. > > How do I change it back, then? >> Damn but I wish I could find their source code. "Open source" indeed. >> > > I'm guessing you'll find that their software would have shell scripts > floating around with "#!/bin/sh" headers. You could also stick with > dash and just change all of their shell scripts to use bash. > > Hmm. Maybe. I don't know how many scripts I'd find -- the software is basically the gnu toolchain for C development, cross-compiled for the ARM. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Advisability of changing shell redirect
Tim wrote: > Hey Tim, > > >> t...@servo:~/Downloads$ ./arm-2009q3-67-arm-none-linux-gnueabi.bin >> The installer has detected that your system uses the dash shell >> as /bin/sh. This shell is not supported by the installer. >> You can work around this problem by changing /bin/sh to be a >> symbolic link to a supported shell such as bash. >> For example, on Ubuntu systems, execute this shell command: >>% sudo dpkg-reconfigure -plow dash >>Install as /bin/sh? No >> Please refer to the Getting Started guide for more information, >> or contact CodeSourcery Support for assistance. >> t...@servo:~/Downloads$ >> >> Do I want to touch this? Is this going to screw up _other_ software >> that may be looking for 'sh' to be a Dash shell command? Or am I fairly >> safe playing with it? >> >> And do I want to just change the link manually, or do I want to use >> dpgk-reconfigure as they suggest? >> > > > Debian actually uses bash for /bin/sh by default. I personally always > change this to dash. /bin/sh is supposed to be a POSIX compliant > shell, but bash always supports non-compliant syntax which causes some > coders to write shell scripts with "bashisms" that aren't portable. > > Also, bash is a memory hog like no other. As DJB once said: "There > are good interfaces and then there are user interfaces". Bash is > definitely a user interface. So dash is both faster and keeps you > honest by being POSIX compliant and restricting you to POSIX compliant > syntax. > > The fact that this company requires /bin/sh to be bash means that > they're writing bash scripts and sticking "#!/bin/sh" in the header > instead of "#!/bin/bash". A simple bug to fix on their end, but for > some reason they expect users to change they way they operate to > accommodate them. > > Summary: That's really annoying, but it probably won't break anything > to switch to bash, besides making your shell scripts run slower. > I'm thinking that I'll just change the link, install the software, try it out, then change the link back -- in hopes that the only scripts that cause problems are in their install. Damn but I wish I could find their source code. "Open source" indeed. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Lucid Lynx - preview
Wayne E. Van Loon Sr. wrote: > Word Wizard wrote: > >> Ubuntu going astray >> >> Getting rid of Gnome's custom login screen and sound customizing apps? >> Why? They seem like basic features of an OS trying to attract desktop >> users from the Windows world. >> > Here is a little different slant on that. > I don't care to attract a bunch of Windows users. For a lot of computer > users to use Linux, it would have to be dumbed down to gui use only and > applications reduced to something even smaller than Ubuntu. > Ubuntu's mission statement is embodied in bug #1 in their Bugzilla: "Microsoft Windows has too much market share". I hope they stick to that attitude. There are plenty of "Linux Wonk" distros out there -- I like Ubuntu's "Linux with (removable) training wheels" approach, and since I intend to remain a guy who works _with_ computers, rather than a guy who works _on_ computers I want Ubuntu to stay true to that philosophy. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Advisability of changing shell redirect
I'm winding up on an embedded project that will use the Texas Instruments LM3S811 embedded ARM processor. Some searching around on the web shows me that there isn't much support to be found for the gnu-arm tool set any more -- all of the web pages with dates are several years old, and the ones without dates are all for building the tools with the old versions. Whenever this situation is mentioned at all, links point to commercial sites, including Codesourcery, which does an "open source" gnu tool set -- but they sure don't publish their source very openly!!! So, I cave. I download their binary distribution of their "Codesourcery lite", and I run it. I get the following message: t...@servo:~/Downloads$ ./arm-2009q3-67-arm-none-linux-gnueabi.bin The installer has detected that your system uses the dash shell as /bin/sh. This shell is not supported by the installer. You can work around this problem by changing /bin/sh to be a symbolic link to a supported shell such as bash. For example, on Ubuntu systems, execute this shell command: % sudo dpkg-reconfigure -plow dash Install as /bin/sh? No Please refer to the Getting Started guide for more information, or contact CodeSourcery Support for assistance. t...@servo:~/Downloads$ Do I want to touch this? Is this going to screw up _other_ software that may be looking for 'sh' to be a Dash shell command? Or am I fairly safe playing with it? And do I want to just change the link manually, or do I want to use dpgk-reconfigure as they suggest? Ooooh, I'm s confused. This is violating my implicit contract with Ubuntu "Good training wheels" Linux. (I am, frankly, far more comfortable with the idea of doing my own build, if only there were _real_ source available. Grr. Grump.) -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Sorta OT -- Good book on web site positioning
drew wymore wrote: > On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Paul Heinlein wrote: > >> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010, Tim Wescott wrote: >> >> >>> What I /do/ want to know is how I can get my site to come up when >>> folks go searching for people who do the sort of work that I do, >>> hopefully without having to pay Google big bundles of bribe money. >>> >> I don't know any books, but here are my best suggestions: >> >> 1. Choose page titles that encorporate search keywords >> 2. Choose subheadings and page text likewise. >> 3. Run your HTML though tidy or some other syntax checker. >> 4. Don't rely on images to convey content without corresponding text. >> 5. Get other sites to link to yours. >> >> -- >> Paul Heinlein <> heinl...@madboa.com <> http://www.madboa.com/ >> ___ >> PLUG mailing list >> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >> >> > > http://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/ > I was sure (but didn't _know_) that there was something like this from Google, but I just couldn't find the right keywords. "webmaster tools". Of course. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Sorta OT -- Good book on web site positioning
I've let my web site rot a bit -- when I started the business six years ago I would regularly show up in relevant searches. Now Google has changed their algorithms, and I'm not popping up with the regularity I'd like -- and I'm seeing a proportional decline in new clients. (What really sucks is that Google _used_ to put considerable weight on newsgroup postings, so all I had to do was stay active on newsgroups, answering questions that were interesting and within my competence, and business would come to me. No more, alas). So -- does anyone have recommendations for books on positioning a web site to come up in searches? I'm not interested in learning how to be an HTML jockey -- I already know that. I'm not interested in learning how to do any super-zoot high performance active web site design -- I don't have time for that (and I think it detracts from what I do). What I /do/ want to know is how I can get my site to come up when folks go searching for people who do the sort of work that I do, hopefully without having to pay Google big bundles of bribe money. I've found a few pointers, but this seems to be a book-length subject, so I'd kinda like to get a good hunk of dead tree that I can curl up with and study in the evenings when I have nothing better to do than take care of future business. TIA. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] 'Ubuntu Help: Seamonkey Won't Load
Rich Shepard wrote: > On Tue, 27 Apr 2010, drew wymore wrote: > > >> Can you try running the application as root or another user and see if it >> starts correctly? I am wondering if it has to do with her prefs file being >> mucked up. >> > > Drew, > >Will do later this afternoon. She has messed up the system by filling her > ~/ with copied music cd-roms. I've no idea what she did when trying to make > room on the partition. > >Strangely enough, when I tried to upgrade the system (last done 83 days > ago so I suspect the 'your system is up to date' is incorrect), it kept > failing to download links to archives and files. > >Not sure how I get everthing back to working again, but I'm open to all > advice and suggestions. > Install Ubuntu on an empty disk, then copy over the old 'home' directory? It may serve as either a diagnostic or a fix. (I rarely stay happy with Ubuntu after more than one or two upgrades; I often take an upgrade as an opportunity to clean house on the hard drive in just this way). -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Anyone using OpenOCD
Russell Senior wrote: >>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Wescott writes: >>>>>> > > Tim> For embedded cross-debugging? Specifically with the Luminary/TI > Tim> LM3S811, but anything would be interesting. > > Tim> I just installed it on Ubuntu Karmic and it's not talking to the > Tim> JTAG chip (boo hoo). I've started poking around on the internet > Tim> looking for inspiration, but I ain't finding it yet. > > Tim> So if there's someone local, who's seen success, I'd like to hear > Tim> about it. > > I played a little with Olimex's USB-ARM-OCD device talking to an ARM > core'd CPU last fall, but I don't remember doing any gdb-ish stuff. > Not sure if that's remotely helpful. > I dunno. OpenOCD isn't seeing the interface chip, even though I seem to be doing everything right. I'm sure it's the usual Linux thing where every link in the chain is there but one -- I just haven't found that link, yet! -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Anyone using OpenOCD
For embedded cross-debugging? Specifically with the Luminary/TI LM3S811, but anything would be interesting. I just installed it on Ubuntu Karmic and it's not talking to the JTAG chip (boo hoo). I've started poking around on the internet looking for inspiration, but I ain't finding it yet. So if there's someone local, who's seen success, I'd like to hear about it. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Is anyone in the group doing cross-development?
Galen Seitz wrote: > Ali Corbin wrote: > >> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:33 AM, Tim Wescott wrote: >> >>> Is anyone doing cross-development for embedded microprocessors using >>> Linux on the host? Specifically, I'm reviving a project that uses an >>> Arm Cortex M3 with an OpenOCD debug pod. I'd _like_ to do the >>> development all under Linux, without having to slide over to Windows. >>> >>> But when I try to do web searches for this, I find lots of material on >>> using Linux in the target, but not a lot about setting up and using the >>> tool chain when you're using Linux on the host. >>> >>> Any guidance appreciated, even if it's better search terms! >>> >>> > > Unless you're keen on building your own tools, I'd suggest using a > pre-built toolchain from CodeSourcery. I'd also suggest subscribing > to their mailing list. They often answer questions from people using > the free edition. Of course they would be happy to sell you a > supported version too. CodeSourcery is one of the primary > contributors to the GCC ARM port. > > http://www.codesourcery.com/sgpp/lite_edition.html > (snip) Thanks Galen -- I had looked for the codesourcery stuff, but they don't exactly feature it prominently on their website any more. I'll give it a whirl, now that I can find it. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Is anyone in the group doing cross-development?
Is anyone doing cross-development for embedded microprocessors using Linux on the host? Specifically, I'm reviving a project that uses an Arm Cortex M3 with an OpenOCD debug pod. I'd _like_ to do the development all under Linux, without having to slide over to Windows. But when I try to do web searches for this, I find lots of material on using Linux in the target, but not a lot about setting up and using the tool chain when you're using Linux on the host. Any guidance appreciated, even if it's better search terms! * pun intended, of course. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Open Source Bridge CfP ends March 29.
Scott Garman wrote: > Hi all, > > I haven't seen anything mentioned here on the ML about the Open Source > Bridge conference, so I wanted to post a short announcement. > > Open Source Bridge is a conference for developers working with open > source technologies. It will take place June 1–4, 2010, in Portland, > Oregon, with five tracks connecting people across projects, languages > and experience to explore how we do our work and why we participate in > open source. The conference structure is designed to provide developers > with an opportunity to learn from people they might not connect with at > other events. Attendees will learn and interact at three days of > traditional conference presentations, a day of free-form unconference > sessions, and our 24-hour Hacker Lounge. > > This year we are thrilled to have an excellent downtown location at the > Portland Art Museum, an extra day packed full of open source goodness, > and an on-site 24-hour Hacker Lounge! As a user group member, you can > use the coupon code “osbugluv” to register for only $200 when you select > either an Early Bird Registration (through April 1st), or a Regular > Registration (after April 1st). > > Also, the Call for Proposals ends on March 29th, so if you'd like to > give a talk, please submit something immediately: > > http://opensourcebridge.org/events/2010/proposals > > To register for the conference or learn more, visit > > http://opensourcebridge.org > > On a personal note, I attended this conference last year and was really > inspired by it. I think it offers one of the best values in terms of low > registration costs and attracts some really high quality presentations. > > Scott > > Do they cover much open-source embedded development, or is it all desktop/server stuff? I'm about to revive a deeply embedded ARM project that I last worked on before I defenestrated my PC, it'd be nice to talk to folks who've actually done cross-development from a Linux host. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Is 1 GB enough memory?
Richard C. Steffens wrote: > My sister recently upgraded from an XP machine to a Mac. I got the > hand-me-down. I now have a test machine and plan to use it to try out > different distros. XP will not be one of them. > > One reason she got her new machine is that the old one runs so slowly. > Of course, XP is part of the problem, and who knows what mischievous > malware has found its way onto the hard drive (no, I'm not connecting it > to the house network until I wipe that drive and load Linux). > > Another reason it is slow is that it has only 256 MB of RAM. The mother > board has two memory slots with one DDR PC3200 stick in it. I can get a > 1 GB stick for $36. Will that be good enough? I realize that more is > usually better, but $36 is better than $72 for now. > > Other details: > > Processor: AMD Sempron 2400+, 1.6 GHz > Hard drive: 111 GB (can't see the make and model unless I take it out. > Floppy, CD writer/DVD reader. > > TIA for any advice. > > I have an old laptop with 256M. Plain Jane Ubuntu is slow as molasses, but Xbuntu is quite zippy. My feeling is that 1G ought to be plenty. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] open source bike gadget
Denis Heidtmann wrote: > Claims to be open source. > > http://www.cerevellum.com/ > > -Denis > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > I didn't see the claim in a quick browse of their site. The proof is in the pudding -- where do you download the source? -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] random question: how do you think newbies select their distributions?
I'm a "poke around a bit then jump in" sort. After some early experience with Knoppix (thanks, Kieth) I tried (ca 2002) Debian because Knoppix was Debian based and I figured "go to the source!!". I soon realized that the only way it would work reliably was if I became far more of an expert than I'm interested in being. If Knoppix had come with an "install now" feature I would have hit the button and been happy. But it didn't, and in trying to find out how to install it permanently I found out that it's totally centered on being a live-on-CD distribution. So I poked around a bit, found out that Ubuntu is Debian with training wheels, and I have yet to learn how to ride without them :-). chris (fool) mccraw wrote: > my 3/4-baked theory is that many people new to linux use what their > friends suggest, or what they first or most compellingly hear about. > that is, they don't do comparative research between available/relevant > distributions and choose logically. > > certainly that was the case for me in the early days and even now i'm > more a "try it and see" type than a heavy researcher when i experiment with > distros i haven't used before. hmm, then again, i know more of what i > want and need from a distro now, and can judge some things instantly > that i would have not understood when i was getting started, so maybe > the past 16 years has been of some use after all =) > > anyway, what is your take on how people choose distributions, and/or > how did you choose your first? i think newbies are an especially > interesting discussion because we are attracting so many to our ranks > these days and i'm curious as to what trends will shape the future of > the landscape; i believe that the distros that see the most users > fare the best in terms of vitality and usually pace/success of > development, commercial or non (though that is a belief open to > debate in itself). > > personally, i started with slackware because i was unaware anything > else existed and my mentor used slackware, though i understood that > slackware was not linux. the second time (in as many weeks) that i > installed it i downloaded it myself from somewhere that had other > distros mirrored too and i noticed their presence but was not > inquisitive for many months (and many reinstalls). it maybe that > nothing else was as mature and generally awesome and in english at the > time (mid-1994), but i certainly can't vouch for that with any > certainty. > > thoughts? > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] New Computer
Mike Connors wrote: > Marvin Kosmal wrote: > >> My current computer is AMD +1800 .. ..The CPU goes to 100% when I use >> a browser.. >> >> I am running Ubuntu 8-10 Intrepid >> >> Suggestions for Cheap upgrade??? Something that will last another 4 >> or 5 years?? >> >> > At the risk of offending all of the Ubuntu lovers on PLUG, I've never liked > the poor resource utilization of Ubuntu. I prefer to run Debian, > specifically > Sidux, which is distro based on Debian Sid. > > There are also other distros to consider that are geared towards a small > footprint and efficient > resource utilization such as Puppy, damn small linux, or even FreeBSD, > etc... > > Also, I noticed that the Google Chrome browser uses mem/cpu resources > more efficiently than > Firefox. There's 2 other *lightweight* graphical browsers I've heard > good things about but > never used that you might want to check out: Dillo and Arora. > > Just some options to buy you some time and make using your current > computer a lil' > more tolerable... > If you just love Ubuntu to pieces, going from Ubuntu to Xbuntu will make for a big drop in resource utilization. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Hardware Problem -- Kernel panic and reset
Aaron Burt wrote: > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 09:42:47AM -0800, Tim Wescott wrote: > >> Aaron Burt wrote: >> >>> Blank screen, or what? Yes, the blinking lights are kernel panic. >>> > > >> Everything freezes in place -- no screen blank. Then the lights start >> blinking and I start cussing. >> > > Ook. > > >> I suspect that it's time for a new motherboard and/or processor -- I >> just wish I had a way to tell which one without buying lots of parts to >> swap. A Freegeek used processor may be in this system's near future, >> though. >> > > Not a bad idea. No capacitors with the top domed out, then? > No -- all the caps look just peachy keen. The computer in question has spend serious time at elevated temperatures, so dried out caps is certainly a possibility. I suppose at this point I could just swap them on general principals and see, given that what we have now isn't useful for much. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Hardware Problem -- Kernel panic and reset
Aaron Burt wrote: > On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 10:51:55PM -0800, Tim Wescott wrote: > >> The computer is a built-box, with an Azus P5NSLI motherboard, somewhere >> between one to three years old. Any time it gets left on too long it >> resets. Working on it tonight, I noticed that if you're in Linux when >> this happens you get the two blinking keyboard lights which (I think, at >> least) indicates a kernel panic; they stay on for about ten seconds >> before the thing reboots. >> > > Blank screen, or what? Yes, the blinking lights are kernel panic. > > Like everyone else said, it's probably a heat issue, but I would suggest > (a) checking the video card heat sink (if it's separate) and > (b) reseating RAM, PCI and AGP boards, and (if not too scary) the CPU. > (c) Running memtest and CPUburn. > > Everything freezes in place -- no screen blank. Then the lights start blinking and I start cussing. We've reseated the RAM -- both because we wanted to do the check, and because we moved some hard drives around and the memory is physically large -- re-gooped the CPU heat sink, and run memtest. I'll try the other things. At this point I'm thinking it's either a loose connection or a dried out cap, because the more I use it the more I note that the problem occasionally happens right at startup even when the system is cold. I suspect that it's time for a new motherboard and/or processor -- I just wish I had a way to tell which one without buying lots of parts to swap. A Freegeek used processor may be in this system's near future, though. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Hardware Problem -- Kernel panic and reset
Tim Wescott wrote: > This is _not_ really a Linux issue, because we're seeing basically the > same behavior under both Linux and Windows. > > The computer is a built-box, with an Azus P5NSLI motherboard, somewhere > between one to three years old. Any time it gets left on too long it > resets. Working on it tonight, I noticed that if you're in Linux when > this happens you get the two blinking keyboard lights which (I think, at > least) indicates a kernel panic; they stay on for about ten seconds > before the thing reboots. > > It seems to be a heat problem -- the problem takes a long time to happen > from a cold start, but will happen often when you're using the box hard, > shut down for a bit and it'll take a bit longer to happen the first > time, etc. > > What I _don't_ know, since I purposely stopped being current with PC > maintenance about ten years ago, is (a) if there's anything I can do to > verify this other than by swapping parts (the fans do all run -- I know > that), (b) if this could be anything other than the motherboard or > memory (i.e. is there any chance this is the power supply?), and (c) > what I might do to isolate the problem without having to run out and buy > a bunch of parts. > > Clearly if I want to start swapping parts I can just go by a nifty new > motherboard, which will force me to buy a nifty new processor and nifty > new memory -- I want to avoid that if I can, particularly if that'll > just lead me to finding out that the power supply is intermittent. > > Thanks all -- some of this was stuff I already planned to do, some of it was stuff (like blowing off the heat sink fins) that hadn't occurred to me, all if it is helping me organize my line of attack. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Hardware Problem -- Kernel panic and reset
This is _not_ really a Linux issue, because we're seeing basically the same behavior under both Linux and Windows. The computer is a built-box, with an Azus P5NSLI motherboard, somewhere between one to three years old. Any time it gets left on too long it resets. Working on it tonight, I noticed that if you're in Linux when this happens you get the two blinking keyboard lights which (I think, at least) indicates a kernel panic; they stay on for about ten seconds before the thing reboots. It seems to be a heat problem -- the problem takes a long time to happen from a cold start, but will happen often when you're using the box hard, shut down for a bit and it'll take a bit longer to happen the first time, etc. What I _don't_ know, since I purposely stopped being current with PC maintenance about ten years ago, is (a) if there's anything I can do to verify this other than by swapping parts (the fans do all run -- I know that), (b) if this could be anything other than the motherboard or memory (i.e. is there any chance this is the power supply?), and (c) what I might do to isolate the problem without having to run out and buy a bunch of parts. Clearly if I want to start swapping parts I can just go by a nifty new motherboard, which will force me to buy a nifty new processor and nifty new memory -- I want to avoid that if I can, particularly if that'll just lead me to finding out that the power supply is intermittent. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] experiments - OT: FiOS auxiliary power for BBU
wes wrote: > On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Tim Wescott wrote: > > >> Keith Lofstrom wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 10:01:25AM -0600, Fred James wrote: >>> >>> >>>> "but not with a 0V battery" - I don't know - from the documentation one >>>> might expect the BBU to shutdown leaving some "reserve" power in the >>>> >> battery >> >>>> Now, Verizon "tech" did say the aux port wasn't hooked up, but APC >>>> couldn't understand that statement - i.e.: APC's documents contradict >>>> Verizon's statement - but I don't know how to verify that either way? >>>> >>>> >>> Verizon is not in the business of telling the truth. They are in the >>> business of keeping their equipment safe from hardware hackers like us. >>> Obviously, there are risks, starting with some clown hooking a car >>> battery backwards into that port. If I was programming an Indian call >>> center, I would have them say whatever was necessary to keep people like >>> us from fooling with the customer equipment. I'm grateful that they >>> were willing to help me plug into the ethernet port on the ONT, rather >>> than route through the Actiontec cable modem as originally installed >>> (another story). They could have told me to jump in a lake. >>> >>> The aux port does hook up to the aux indicator light, and there is a >>> 12.5V threshold, so it is not just a matter of an otherwise-unconnected >>> LED and resistor. I imagine that under the right circumstances, the >>> port will provide power though the BBU. >>> >>> I'm guessing that replacing the good battery with an almost-but-not-quite >>> discharged one will cause the main BBU to draw power from the aux port. >>> The BBU control circuitry that does the switching may be powered off the >>> main internal battery, drawing a trickle of current. >>> >>> If the external APC unit has a charger, then that is good news, because >>> it means the main APC unit is not trying to charge it, and probably >>> does not care how big the external battery is. Car batteries are much >>> cheaper per watt-hour than the small gel cells, and you can keep them >>> on a trickle charger. In extremis, you could even power the unit from >>> the battery in a car, BUT DO NOT CONNECT IT WHEN THE CAR IS RUNNING, >>> the ignition spikes would likely kill the APC BBU. >>> >>> >>> >> If you're looking for inexpensive lead-acid batteries for this service, >> look to deep discharge marine, RV or golf cart batteries. Car batteries >> are optimized to generate LOTS of current for a short time, and are >> presumed to rarely get deeply discharged. This is because that current >> is needed, and they generally still have considerable remaining capacity >> when they're too 'dead' to turn an engine. As a consequence of being >> optimized for low price and high current output they don't do a good job >> controlling where the material plates on during charge after a deep >> discharge, so they tend to suffer an early death if they go through too >> many deep discharge/charge cycles. >> >> There is considerable collected wisdom on this subject in the amateur >> radio literature, from folks building emergency-power stations suitable >> for the aftermath of fire, flood, and earthquake. They all say "don't >> use car batteries". >> >> Anything called "deep discharge" will (well, should) be designed to be >> deeply discharged -- and recharged -- on a regular basis, and will >> probably severely compromise cold cranking amps while doing so. >> >> -- >> Tim Wescott >> >> > > The more common term that I've seen used is "deep cycle." > > I knew I was getting that term wrong! -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] experiments - OT: FiOS auxiliary power for BBU
Keith Lofstrom wrote: > On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 10:01:25AM -0600, Fred James wrote: > >> "but not with a 0V battery" - I don't know - from the documentation one >> might expect the BBU to shutdown leaving some "reserve" power in the battery >> Now, Verizon "tech" did say the aux port wasn't hooked up, but APC >> couldn't understand that statement - i.e.: APC's documents contradict >> Verizon's statement - but I don't know how to verify that either way? >> > > Verizon is not in the business of telling the truth. They are in the > business of keeping their equipment safe from hardware hackers like us. > Obviously, there are risks, starting with some clown hooking a car > battery backwards into that port. If I was programming an Indian call > center, I would have them say whatever was necessary to keep people like > us from fooling with the customer equipment. I'm grateful that they > were willing to help me plug into the ethernet port on the ONT, rather > than route through the Actiontec cable modem as originally installed > (another story). They could have told me to jump in a lake. > > The aux port does hook up to the aux indicator light, and there is a > 12.5V threshold, so it is not just a matter of an otherwise-unconnected > LED and resistor. I imagine that under the right circumstances, the > port will provide power though the BBU. > > I'm guessing that replacing the good battery with an almost-but-not-quite > discharged one will cause the main BBU to draw power from the aux port. > The BBU control circuitry that does the switching may be powered off the > main internal battery, drawing a trickle of current. > > If the external APC unit has a charger, then that is good news, because > it means the main APC unit is not trying to charge it, and probably > does not care how big the external battery is. Car batteries are much > cheaper per watt-hour than the small gel cells, and you can keep them > on a trickle charger. In extremis, you could even power the unit from > the battery in a car, BUT DO NOT CONNECT IT WHEN THE CAR IS RUNNING, > the ignition spikes would likely kill the APC BBU. > > If you're looking for inexpensive lead-acid batteries for this service, look to deep discharge marine, RV or golf cart batteries. Car batteries are optimized to generate LOTS of current for a short time, and are presumed to rarely get deeply discharged. This is because that current is needed, and they generally still have considerable remaining capacity when they're too 'dead' to turn an engine. As a consequence of being optimized for low price and high current output they don't do a good job controlling where the material plates on during charge after a deep discharge, so they tend to suffer an early death if they go through too many deep discharge/charge cycles. There is considerable collected wisdom on this subject in the amateur radio literature, from folks building emergency-power stations suitable for the aftermath of fire, flood, and earthquake. They all say "don't use car batteries". Anything called "deep discharge" will (well, should) be designed to be deeply discharged -- and recharged -- on a regular basis, and will probably severely compromise cold cranking amps while doing so. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] experiments - OT: FiOS auxiliary power for BBU
Fred James wrote: > Keith Lofstrom wrote: > >> I fiddled a bit with the "Auxilliary Power Supply DC 12V" input to >> my FIOS BBU. >> >> The barrel connector seems to be a 0.15 inch barrel (approximately >> 6mm), center positive. I clipped the connector and cable off an >> obsolete wall wart, and proceeded. This is the same power connector >> as some of the older Nokia cell phones, IIRC. >> >> I set up a lab bench power supply with current and voltage limits, >> and connected it to the cable. When I increased the voltage above >> 12.5V , the "Auxilliary Power Source" light on the front panel lit >> up. The BBU drew less than 10mA. I dialed it up to 13.5V, about >> what a car battery puts out, and set the current limit to 5 amps. >> Since the unit draws 20W from the line in normal operation, I >> assumed that would be enough. >> >> I pulled the line power input to the BBU, the unit went on battery >> as intended. I pulled the internal battery connection, hoping it >> would use the auxiliary power instead of the internal battery, >> and the BBU shut down, without drawing current from the auxiliary >> jack and bench supply. It might have been a startup surge, so I >> tried again with 0.086 farads across the supply. Again, shut >> down, no current from the bench supply. I don't want to try a car >> battery directly, too much current if something shorts. >> >> So - a mystery. Perhaps there is some protocol on the wire to the >> approved external device. For extended life, use an external UPS >> on the line input, I guess. >> >> Keith >> >> > Keith Lofstrom > According to what I have read (online manual for the unit I have > (CPL28U12) - you didn't mention your model) ... you are/were almost > there ... there is (again, on my model) a button marked "Battery > Emergency Use" (next to the Alarm Silence button), which (although > Verizon fails to mention it in their documentation) is intended for > emergency use as follows ... > "Press the button once to use the reserve battery capacity and/or > the auxiliary battery capacity after low battery shutdown. The unit > will emit a confirmation beep." > ... as an additional note, the battery is a 12 V 7.2 AHr battery - I am > not sure what that would equal in amps from a bench power supply, Amp-hours vs. amps isn't entirely meaningless, but it's not terrifically meaningful in a battery vs. bench supply shoot-off. Battery capacity is rated in amp-hours, which along with the voltage tells you roughly how much energy is stored in the thing. A battery's ability to deliver current is measured in amps. All else being equal, a bigger amp-hour rating indicates a greater ability to deliver current, but there are potentially huge differences in construction from one battery to the next which drastically affects the capacity vs. current-delivering capability trade off. (Having said that, most sealed gel-cell batteries for equipment power use are mostly designed for a minimum 10-hour discharge time, meaning you wouldn't want to pull more than 720mA out of that 7.2A-hr battery, and you could expect it to last 10 hours in that service). Putting a bigger battery on there will give you a longer discharge time, but may confuse the heck out of any charging circuit they may have built into the thing. > but I > don't think that was the cause of the NoGo in your test, as you didn't > mention pushing the Battery Emergency Use button. > Thanks for the input - that sounds (correct me if I am wrong) as if one > were to connect the free ends (say with alligator clips attached?) of a > cable of the description you gave above to a fully charged 12 V 7.2 AHr > battery (i.e., the same type as the one in the unit itself), and the > barrel end of that cable to the BBU auxiliary port provided, one could > be good to go? First making sure polarity on the cable was correct, of > course. > Regards > Fred James > > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] C++ pointer freeing problem
Tony Rick wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Tim Wescott wrote:
>
>
>> You are extracting individual characters out of rawInput by getting a
>> pointer to a character array, then getting characters 'the C way'.
>>
>> Yet the string class has a character extraction operator -- why not just
>> use rawInput[i], or rawInput.at(i)?
>>
>>
>
> ...or iterator members rawInput.begin() and rawInput.end() to avoid using
> size() at all?
> modified example from the string RefMan entry:
> string::iterator it;
> for (it = rawInput.begin(); it < rawInput.end(); it++) {
> if (*it == 0x2e) {
> etc, etc, etc
> }
>
> - tony
>
Indeed, I should have mentioned it. I _thought_ it, but then I thought
it'd be hard to explain, so I didn't pursue it.
That's probably how I'd carry out the task, if I couldn't use the
higher-level parsing functions available from string (like find, substr,
etc.). I'd have to think about it to know if they could be used to
advantage -- I do nearly all my C++ work in small embedded systems where
use of the STL is anathema.
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Re: [PLUG] C++ pointer freeing problem
Carlos Konstanski wrote:
> I have a C++ function I'm writing; see below. I'm new to C++, and the
> implementation details tend to bite me where the sun don't shine
> whenever they can.
>
> The function works as intended. But later attempts to use the value
> that I passed in as rawInput cause an error in Visual C++. GNU C++
> does not give me any error. Nevertheless, I think that there must be a
> problem here. I suspect that the pointer charSequence must need to be
> freed. But I cannot find any way to do this that compiles.
>
> Is this my problem? If so, how do I free charSequence?
>
> Carlos
>
>
> bool numericP(string rawInput) {
> bool legalCharsP = true;
> int numDecimalPoints = 0;
> int i = 0;
> const char *charSequence = rawInput.c_str();
> while(i < rawInput.size() && legalCharsP && numDecimalPoints <= 1) {
> // the first char can be a -, ., or a digit; all others must
> // be a . or a digit; but there can be only one or less .'s
> if(! ((i == 0 && charSequence[i] == 0x2d) ||
>((charSequence[i] >= 0x30 && charSequence[i] <= 0x39) ||
> charSequence[i] == 0x2e))) {
> legalCharsP = false;
> } else if(charSequence[i] == 0x2e) {
> numDecimalPoints++;
> }
> i++;
> }
> return (legalCharsP && numDecimalPoints <= 1);
> }
>
You are extracting individual characters out of rawInput by getting a
pointer to a character array, then getting characters 'the C way'.
Yet the string class has a character extraction operator -- why not just
use rawInput[i], or rawInput.at(i)?
--
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
Voice: 503-631-7815
Cell: 503-349-8432
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Re: [PLUG] Need to make a graph in OO Calc...
Michael Robinson wrote: > I have temperature values in Kelvin corresponding to vapor pressure > values in kPa's. I need to graph natural_log(vapor pressure) as Y > and (1/temperature) for the X axis. How do I do this in Openoffice > Calc???I should end up with a straight line, but I probably won't. > > A problem is that my initial vapor pressure is 0, no ethanol in the > sealed container. I don't think the natural_log(0) is defined. > > I'd do this with Scilab -- but my threshold for wanting to use Scilab instead of a spreadsheet is exceedingly low. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] C++ pointer freeing problem
Tony Rick wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Carlos Konstanski <
> ckonstan...@pippiandcarlos.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On Sun, 14 Feb 2010, Tony Rick wrote:
>>
>> Commenting out the "if(! numericP()) {}" block circumvents the
>> error. Therefore it seems reasonable that something in numericP() is
>> causing the trouble. That's what led me to look at the treatment of
>> the *char. Now I think it's corrupting rawInput().
>>
>> Is it bad to keep using getRawInput() directly whenever I want to read
>> its value, instead of getting a copy into a local variable? This would
>> cause no problems in Java, Lisp, etc, but perhaps C++ is
>> different. I'll try changing that.
>>
>> I appreciate all your help thus far. It is good to know that I should
>> not bark up the free() tree.
>>
>> Carlos
>> ___
>> PLUG mailing list
>> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org
>> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>>
>>
>
> The corruption may be that member function getRawInput() itself has been
> nuked, or that member variable rawInput has been nuked, or that the table
> holding the info about class members has been nuked, Since I can't see how
> a simple reference to the variable or the function call could produce a NaN
> to trigger the exception, I lean toward the last one, which involves an
> index into a lookup table, if I recall my C++ Class implementation details
> correctly. This would mean that the corruption is way bad, caused by
> writing memory locations gone wild, for example.
>
> One point about accessors (eg, get/setRawInput): they are generally for
> access from the 'outside world', part of the information hiding paradigm.
> Inside a class instance, member variables are directly accessible, unless
> you go to some extraordiary lengths to make them not so. I would not use
> get/setRawInput in any of the Validator methods, but the variables
> themselves.
>
> const char* charSequence = rawInput.c_str();
>
I would take that under advisement -- sometimes you _do_ want to use a
class's accessor functions from within the class, particularly when its
large and complex (and maybe due to be split up) or when you know that
you will always need the information as presented to the outside world
and you suspect that you're going to change the internal representation.
--
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Re: [PLUG] SOLVED Re: C++ pointer freeing problem
Carlos Konstanski wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Feb 2010, Tony Rick wrote:
>
>
>> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:17:39 -0800
>> From: Tony Rick
>> Reply-To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic"
>>
>> To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help, civil and on-topic"
>>
>> Subject: Re: [PLUG] C++ pointer freeing problem
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Carlos Konstanski <
>> ckonstan...@pippiandcarlos.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Sun, 14 Feb 2010, Tony Rick wrote:
>>>
>>> Commenting out the "if(! numericP()) {}" block circumvents the
>>> error. Therefore it seems reasonable that something in numericP() is
>>> causing the trouble. That's what led me to look at the treatment of
>>> the *char. Now I think it's corrupting rawInput().
>>>
>>> Is it bad to keep using getRawInput() directly whenever I want to read
>>> its value, instead of getting a copy into a local variable? This would
>>> cause no problems in Java, Lisp, etc, but perhaps C++ is
>>> different. I'll try changing that.
>>>
>>> I appreciate all your help thus far. It is good to know that I should
>>> not bark up the free() tree.
>>>
>>> Carlos
>>> ___
>>> PLUG mailing list
>>> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org
>>> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>>>
>>>
>> The corruption may be that member function getRawInput() itself has been
>> nuked, or that member variable rawInput has been nuked, or that the table
>> holding the info about class members has been nuked, Since I can't see how
>> a simple reference to the variable or the function call could produce a NaN
>> to trigger the exception, I lean toward the last one, which involves an
>> index into a lookup table, if I recall my C++ Class implementation details
>> correctly. This would mean that the corruption is way bad, caused by
>> writing memory locations gone wild, for example.
>>
>> One point about accessors (eg, get/setRawInput): they are generally for
>> access from the 'outside world', part of the information hiding paradigm.
>> Inside a class instance, member variables are directly accessible, unless
>> you go to some extraordiary lengths to make them not so. I would not use
>> get/setRawInput in any of the Validator methods, but the variables
>> themselves.
>>
>> const char* charSequence = rawInput.c_str();
>>
>> - tony
>>
>
> Confirmed: that did solve the problem. Many, many thanks!
>
> Carlos
>
That shouldn't have made the least difference.
Ah Microsoft, we love you so.
--
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
Voice: 503-631-7815
Cell: 503-349-8432
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Re: [PLUG] Need to make a graph in OO Calc...
Erik Lane wrote: > Having the natural log of 0 might be an issue. I'm pretty sure that > the natural log of 0 would be negative infinity. That would likely not > produce a straight line graph > You can take care of that with one or another expediency. One thing you can do is calculate using the 'if': if(that cell == 0; 0; ln(that cell)). The other thing you can do is to just don't graph the first point. > Just have two extra rows where you do your computations. ( =LN(A1) > and =1/B1 ) for example. Then just copy and paste and it will give you > your whole series. > > Then make the chart from those pre-computed values. > > (But isn't a vapor pressure of 0 a vacuum? Is it not 1 for something > at equilibrium in a lab environment? I could be really misremembering, > of course.) > It wouldn't be 1 for something in a sealed container. Perfectly 0 is unachievable, too, but "down in the noise", certainly. Perhaps he's introducing ethanol into an evacuated flask. > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Michael Robinson > wrote: > >> I have temperature values in Kelvin corresponding to vapor pressure >> values in kPa's. I need to graph natural_log(vapor pressure) as Y >> and (1/temperature) for the X axis. How do I do this in Openoffice >> Calc???I should end up with a straight line, but I probably won't. >> >> A problem is that my initial vapor pressure is 0, no ethanol in the >> sealed container. I don't think the natural_log(0) is defined. >> >> ___ >> PLUG mailing list >> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >> >> > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Voice: 503-631-7815 Cell: 503-349-8432 http://www.wescottdesign.com ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
