Americana discussion
I remember when I had my first beer.rik I remember when *I* used to rip off that tired old (fuckin') Steve Martin joke... Back to church with ya, gran'pa. Buddy Excse M Rockets * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Buddy Woodward - [EMAIL PROTECTED] THE GHOST ROCKETS - Maximum Rhythm Bluegrass http://www.hudsonet.com/~undertow/ghostrockets* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: Americana discussion
At 11:19 PM 1/21/1999 -0500, you wrote: There's a *really* good question: what's the difference between Retro and Timeless? -- Mike Woods Retro is a fad that eventually fades...then fads.then fades Timeless.just keeps on...well, you know...has to do with a pink rabbit g -Chris
RE: Americana discussion
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Rik Collins Sent: Thursday, January 21, 1999 10:12 AM To: passenger side Subject: Re: Americana discussion I remember when I had my first beer. rik If you can remember the first one you haven't had enough. Nicholas
Re: Blastered comp (was: Re: Americana discussion)
Hey there, alt.country poster boy JW Sure, there's a f*cking review on the f*cking Twangzine if you people would ever bother to read the f*cking thing. g I cant get at it with 'NetNanny' in the way. Later... CK ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: Americana discussion
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rik makes a couple of points that really bug me: It's all relative and transitional at best because in 5-10 years these tunes we listen to now will be gathering dust in some used CD section of your local Media Play. Please tell me why this is a good thing. Rik, have you listened to country radio lately? Do you know the dreck that the "big boys" are foisting on the public? Can you honestly say that "these tunes we listen to now" aren't more interesting and just plain better than that fluff? Why shouldn't more people hear them, then? Remember there's always the delete key. g Jim, smilin' Looking over my play lists and what I also play at home, there is very little if anything 10 to 15 years old that came out of the "Trashville School of Music" that I still listen to. However, I stll regularly play off of the Uncle Tupelo releases, Blood Oranges, Rank File, Lone Justice, Robert Earl Keen, Rusty Wier, etc. The so called outlaw and alt-country stuff is still worth listening to. It doesn't date and it's not schlock. I would imagine some of this will still be wonderful long after Garth Brooks and his ilk have been forgotten. Iceman
RE: Americana discussion
Geez, if you don't listen to any country music from 10 or 15 years ago, you're missing George Strait, Ricky Skaggs, Merle Haggard, Don Williams, Ricky Van Shelton, Conway Twitty, the Judds, John Anderson, Keith Whitley, Clint Black, Patty Loveless, Randy Travis, and a whole lot more. As far as the general Americana discussion goes, an issue that hasn't yet been addressed is this: what's going to happen when - ok, make that "if" - the core of mainstream country radio decides that its commercially viable path is to concentrate on retaining or winning back the core of the country music audience? If the format's defined only in contrast or opposition to the commercial mainstream, and the mainstream changes, where does that leave Americana? From my perspective, there's no inherent reason why a fair number of presently-excluded country artists like Heather Myles, or Dwight Yoakam, or Connie Smith, or a bunch of others who are charting or have charted on Americana couldn't be part of a more hardcore, yet still commercially viable country format that didn't include all, or very much at all of the rock-based stuff, and some good reasons (like musical similarity) why they could be. If that happens, what's the point of an Americana chart? Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
RE: Americana discussion
Americana discussion
On 21 Jan 99 at 6:15, \ wrote: Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:15:57 -0800 Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: "\"Doug Young aka \\\"The Iceman\\\"\"" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:"passenger side" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Americana discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rik makes a couple of points that really bug me: It's all relative and transitional at best because in 5-10 years these tunes we listen to now will be gathering dust in some used CD section of your local Media Play. Please tell me why this is a good thing. Rik, have you listened to country radio lately? Do you know the dreck that the "big boys" are foisting on the public? Can you honestly say that "these tunes we listen to now" aren't more interesting and just plain better than that fluff? Why shouldn't more people hear them, then? Remember there's always the delete key. g Jim, smilin' Jim, Thanks for the response and no, I don't listen to top 40 country radio and haven't in 4 years. It sounded all alike back then and when I quickly spin by cmt/gac/ I cringe and move on as in addition to still sounding alike they all look alike. Regardless of what we listen to, the lollipop country or the quality stuff that falls under the broad Americana spectrum, it all ends up in the cutout bins(no sales) or used bins. The good thing is that the knowledge gained now will serve all of us who are paying attention to the quality of non-mainstream music currently being made and when we go shopping for music we will know the difference between Robbie Fulks/Mike Ireland/Red Meat and the Garth/David Kersch/Bryan White ilk. Also, the titles noted in the post below I have found used or in closeout. I seek Timeless music. It has to sound good today and sound good 10 years from now. That is the true definition of this americana stuff. I also need info on these artists so whatever you can do to add to mine everyones knowledge base will be greatly appreciated. Also working 30 hours a week in an independant music store building up a non-existant Americana section, offering No Depression and the underrated but extremely invaluable Blue Suede News, while also overseeing the lollipop country section, I certainly do know of the stuff being shoved down Americas throats by the big boys and being called country. Enjoyed your response rik Looking over my play lists and what I also play at home, there is very little if anything 10 to 15 years old that came out of the "Trashville School of Music" that I still listen to. However, I stll regularly play off of the Uncle Tupelo releases, Blood Oranges, Rank File, Lone Justice, Robert Earl Keen, Rusty Wier, etc. The so called outlaw and alt-country stuff is still worth listening to. It doesn't date and it's not schlock. I would imagine some of this will still be wonderful long after Garth Brooks and his ilk have been forgotten. Iceman
Re: Americana discussion
But how do you know that what sounds good today *is* gonna sound good ten years from now? Does this mean you sidestep everything that includes any sort of trendy touches, be they in instrumentation or production value? That would be a bummer. That, to me, eliminates some really great music. Like Beck and Nirvana, to name two. (Likely bad examples for this *country* discussion, but what the hell.) Maybe the two best, most important rock artists of the decade who owe plenty in sound to the decade. Does that mean they aren't great? I don't think so. I'm curious to know what you think about retro acts like Wayne Hancock and the Derailers. Do you like 'em? Would you call them timeless? Just jawin', Neal Weiss
Americana discussion
Is it really necessary to toss around all the expletives in these discussions. Your passion is understandable but isf*%$ this and that really required to make a point. I wouldargue that if kids are a focus to turn on to americana youmight not be the one to lead the way. FUCK, man, you're right. Shit, I'm fucking sorry, really I am. Fucky Fuck Rockets * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Buddy Woodward - [EMAIL PROTECTED] THE GHOST ROCKETS - Maximum Rhythm Bluegrass http://www.hudsonet.com/~undertow/ghostrockets* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: Americana discussion
On 21 Jan 99 at 21:39, Budrocket wrote: Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:39:40 -0500 Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Budrocket [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:"passenger side" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Americana discussion X-To: postcard2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is it really necessary to toss around all the expletives in=20 these discussions. Your passion is understandable but is f*%$ this and that really required to make a point. I would argue that if kids are a focus to turn on to americana you might not be the one to lead the way.=20 FUCK, man, you're right. Shit, I'm fucking sorry, really I am. Fucky Fuck Rockets * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * = * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Buddy Woodward - [EMAIL PROTECTED] THE GHOST ROCKETS - "Maximum Rhythm Bluegrass" http://www.hudsonet.com/~undertow/ghostrockets * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * = * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *=20 I remember when I had my first beer. rik
Re: Americana discussion
On 21 Jan 99 at 20:16, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:16:30 EST Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:"passenger side" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Americana discussion But how do you know that what sounds good today *is* gonna sound good ten years from now? Does this mean you sidestep everything that includes any sort of trendy touches, be they in instrumentation or production value? That would be a bummer. That, to me, eliminates some really great music. Like Beck and Nirvana, to name two. (Likely bad examples for this *country* discussion, but what the hell.) Maybe the two best, most important rock artists of the decade who owe plenty in sound to the decade. Does that mean they aren't great? I don't think so. I'm curious to know what you think about retro acts like Wayne Hancock and the Derailers. Do you like 'em? Would you call them timeless? Just jawin', Neal Weiss Neal, Met Wayne at an appearance at a club in Rochester NY on June 11 1998. In a word the best 3 hour non stop show I ever saw. He just sang,no break, 3 song encore and Evan Johns was playing guitar with him on that tour. My brother and I got there early and introduced ourselves to him, chatted, and without a doubt one of the best performers and nicest guys around today. The club had a poster advertising his appearance and was able to procure 2 of them. All the members of the band signed and it is one of the neatest momentos of any event I have ever attended. Derailers without a doubt one of the best groups today. Can't wait to add their 4th release to my CD's. Do you know whats going on with them? Both display timeless quality in their music. Trends come and go but both these artists take distinct genres of music(Waynes affection for big band and Hank Williams) and the Derailers Bakersfield sounding style, put a 90's twist to them and introduce a whole new audience to the particular styles. Both keepers. I tend to gravitate against the trends of the times except that the swing thing got me. Nice to hear it all again but with a lot of fresh faces and varying styles. thanks for the insight, rik
Re: Americana discussion
On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Neal Weiss [I think] wrote: I'm curious to know what you think about retro acts like Wayne Hancock and the Derailers. Do you like 'em? Would you call them timeless? There's a *really* good question: what's the difference between Retro and Timeless? -- Mike Woods
Americana discussion
Is it really necessary to toss around all the expletives in these discussions. Your passion is understandable but is f*%$ this and that really required to make a point. I would argue that if kids are a focus to turn on to americana you might not be the one to lead the way. Do we have anything better to do than postulate in perpetuity about the sales figures and format names of something that is a $14.99 retail investment. What's the deal with the infatuation with sales figures and getting heard. Truly, the big boys have succeeded in changing the way musical acts are developed and perceived by the all consumming public. I prefer to keep it simple and enjoy the music I find that I like regardless of format and sales figures. It's all relative and transitional at best because in 5-10 years these tunes we listen to now will be gathering dust in some used CD section of your local Media Play. However, possibly conferring a focus group with my mom and her friends will shed more light on all this. ?? Focusing more discussions on info and impressions about non mainstream "Americana" artists would certainly be helpful to me those who are looking on but perhaps not participating. The recent lengthy discussions about Garth, although interesting and amusing,might have been better spent on artists we haven't heard about but should. Just had the chance to hear Cisco at the music store I work at and distinctly Bakersfield influenced. I heard Buck Owens riffs and a general Bakersfield feel(if thats possible) and would recommend it to anyone who likes that aspect of "Americana" Also, if you haven't gotten around to picking up the VA-Blastered tribute CD by all means do so. Personally hadn't heard of several of the artists on the CD but the thrill of discovering new artists like The Grandsons,Last Train Home, Highway 13 is the reason why "Americana" is so interesting. Besides, if they become successful won't we just dismiss them as Garthing out? Oh, by the way you gotta give Candye Kane's Swango a listen. From lounge,jump blues, rockabilly, and doo wop this babe can sing it all. For excellent reviews and interesting articles be sure to check out Country Standard time on the web at http://hometown.aol.com/countryst/CST.html. I find the site to be a wealth of info and not sucky in the least. rik Hell, I been listening to thios Alt Country shit since I bought my first * Track tape. Back then it was called Southern Rock. Charlie Daniels, Marshall Tucker, and the Outlaws all played COUNTRY music, no matter how long there fucking hair was or how loud the Marshall Stack was cranked. Willie, Waylon, Hank Jr (before he sucked) Paycheck, etc. This music has been around forever. I don't give a fuck what the Gavin people say or if radio embraces it, I'll continue to listen to it. This Twang shit will be around forever, or at least until I'm dead and they pry my Ernest Tubb and Johnny Cash records out of my hands. This is a real exciting time in music. Anyone with a CDR can make a record. YOU DON'T NEED NASHVILLE ANYMORE. Of course, you'll have to bust your ass on the road to get known, but ANYONE CAN BE A STAR. Look at me, I started my own goddamned magazine, As a result, I've struck up conversations and friendships with people who were previously just idols. Tut Taylor, Charlie McCoy, Don Rigsby, Danny Barnes, Steve Young, Bill Kirchen, and more. Me, just alittle pissant with an obsolete 486 computer. The internet is a beautiful place, and not just because of all the naked pictures either. Anyone can start a Rolling Stone, a Creem, a No Depression. Build a website, make a radio station, showcase your music, and start beating on doors. You ain't going to get rich, but do you want to be a musician or a tycoon? If tycoon is your answer, then sell Amway or something. Music and Money do NOT have to be synonyms. Support your local musician, promote this music every chance you get. The only way this stuff is ever going to grow will be through Grass Roots (Grass Roots? my god, I sound like a fucking communist!) It won't ever be big with the public, But it will always be big with me. I'll always have room on the couch and an extra burger for a road musician. And I have a sheet of plywood and some cinder blocks so you always got a stage in my backyard. I don't care if they call it Americana, Alt Country, Twang, or WGWG Pussy Music. I like it know, I liked it then, I'll like it tomorrow. And if I get a chance, I'll try and turn you on to it as well. Jeff Wall http://www.twangzine.com The Webs least sucky music magazine 727 Alder Circle - Va Beach, Va - 23462 -(757) 467-3764
Re: Americana discussion
rik writes: Just had the chance to hear Cisco at the music store I work at and distinctly Bakersfield influenced. I heard Buck Owens riffs and a general Bakersfield feel(if thats possible) and would recommend it to anyone who likes that aspect of "Americana" I have to second the Cisco CD which I got today and have chosen tracks for TwangCast. As far as the rest of the post, Less Garth = good, however a bit of Garth goes a long way as a point of reference for the Nashville scene, more sharing of new artists = good, but I find the posts that are business related and in discussion of the genre as a business very interesting and informative and while I realize that not everyone on the list is in the biz, enough are to make it a vital part of the discussions herein. @$% - Don't get your shorts in a wedgie over that, it's just the way that hillbilly talks, coming from the Volunteer school of all things twang he ran into some mighty , shall we say, colorful characters along the way and well, if you add that to a nearly full career in the worlds biggest trash talk organization, well...you catch my driftg Mike Hays np: Countrypolitans NOW ONLINE, www.TwangCast.com TM RealCountry netcast 24 X 7 Please Visit Then let us know what you think! Mike Hays www.MikeHays.RealCountry.net For the best country artist web hosting, www.RealCountry.net
Re: Americana discussion
Rik makes a couple of points that really bug me: It's all relative and transitional at best because in 5-10 years these tunes we listen to now will be gathering dust in some used CD section of your local Media Play. Please tell me why this is a good thing. Rik, have you listened to country radio lately? Do you know the dreck that the "big boys" are foisting on the public? Can you honestly say that "these tunes we listen to now" aren't more interesting and just plain better than that fluff? Why shouldn't more people hear them, then? Do we have anything better to do than postulate in perpetuity about the sales figures and format names of something that is a $14.99 retail investment. What's the deal with the infatuation with sales figures and getting heard. I never said anything about sales figures, at least directly. I see no reason to NOT want this music to be heard by as many people as possible. If you agree the music is good, why shouldn't you be glad to turn other people on to it? and 15 bucks, to some people, is a lot for maybe 40 minutes of what's supposed to be entertainment. Remember there's always the delete key. g Jim, smilin'
Blastered comp (was: Re: Americana discussion)
Rik wrote: Also, if you haven't gotten around to picking up the VA-Blastered tribute CD by all means do so. Personally hadn't heard of several of the artists on the CD but the thrill of discovering new artists like The Grandsons,Last Train Home, Highway 13 is the reason why "Americana" is so interesting. Has this been discussed? Was I sleeping? Using my "delete" finger liberally that week? Can I hear some details on this? (artists/label/etc.) and finally, is the "Highway 13" on that disc the *same* Highway 13 from Pittsburgh? Inquiring minds want to know...(ok, that's a lie...only *I* want to know) Paul np: Mike Watt - Ball Hog or Tug Boat?
Re: Americana discussion
At 03:50 PM 1/20/99 -0500, you wrote: Is it really necessary to toss around all the expletives in these discussions. No, it's not really necessary, but we all have our little faults. Yates is a folkie, Cantwell is a midget, Weisberger loves Garth, and I cuss. But I guess I did go overboard this time 2 shits, 3 fucks, and a goddamned. If I was Catholic, I guess I would be gargeling with Holy Water while simultainously saying Hail Mary's. Thank God I'm Baptist, Backsliding Baptist at that. The Ass and Pussy don't really count as being obscene because as the Nashville Princess's have stated numerous times, All of us WGWG (White Guy's With Glasses) are pussies. Your passion is understandable but is f*%$ this and that really required to make a point. No, not at all. But when I'm really tired and I post, The words just come out without any conscious thought. I just type the words in my head without running them thru anytype of "Is this appropriate?" "Is this going to offend" types of filters. I would argue that if kids are a focus to turn on to americana you might not be the one to lead the way. Hate to tell all of y'all this, but if y'all are counting on me or my words to be the Alt Country Poster Boy, you people are in serious need of a CAT scan. I don;t have the desire to be the representative of anything. As for the kids fuck em. When they can learn to pull their goddamned pants up so they ain't hanging off their asses, and when they learn that a thumper stereo destroys good music (ever try to listen to Bill Monroe or the Stanleys through a Thumper Stereo), then maybe I'll start to believe that they have enough common sense to be worth saving. The whole tied died, body pierced, weird hair, goofy pants hanging down off their ass bunch of them. BTW, you mention Jeffrey Renz Country Standard Time magazine and the fact that it does not suck. I have to agree with you. His magazine does not suck, although IN MY OPINION ONLY, he covers too much music that DOES suck. (BTW, He thinks that *I* suck, he's probably right) Other magazines that don't suck terribly bad that you might be interested in would be Peter Blackstocks No Depression. ND doesn't suck although I've accused Peter of sucking a time or two. Just when I get up a full head of steam, he does something nice like drop me an e-mail. THAT'S WHY HE SUCKS. HE AIN'T EVEN DECENT ENOUGH TO BE AN ASSHOLE! What kind of editor is that? Those Miles of Music guys have them up a webzine that doesn't suck either. In fact, the only sucking that goes on there is Jeff Weiss sucking the money out of your pockets. Besides, I secretly have a crush on the entire Weiss family, Jeff, Neal, and Corrie. If I asked them to adopt, would I have to convert? Are BLT's Kosher? If I got a rabbi drunk and got him to bless my pig, then could I slip by? Basically, on one hand, I'm sorry that you felt offended. That wasn't my intention. I never try to offend. Annoy, yes. Offend, no. But the problem is this. If that post offended you, you would probably be better off deleting all my posts unread because I know, deep down in my heart, that I will offend you again. I can't help it, It's a talent. Getting ready to take a shovel to the wife if she don't quit yelling at me. I bet Satan looks just like your ex-wife. That's what Hell is, being re-united to spend eternity with a nagging bitch. ass Pussy Jeff Wall http://www.twangzine.com The Webs least sucky music magazine 727 Alder Circle - Va Beach, Va - 23462 -(757) 467-3764
Re: Blastered comp (was: Re: Americana discussion)
At 11:20 PM 1/20/99 EST, you wrote: Rik wrote: Also, if you haven't gotten around to picking up the VA-Blastered tribute CD by all means do so. Personally hadn't heard of several of the artists on the CD but the thrill of discovering new artists like The Grandsons,Last Train Home, Highway 13 is the reason why "Americana" is so interesting. Has this been discussed? Was I sleeping? Using my "delete" finger liberally that week? Can I hear some details on this? (artists/label/etc.) Sure, there's a f*cking review on the f*cking Twangzine if you people would ever bother to read the f*cking thing. g Jeff Wall http://www.twangzine.com The Webs least sucky music magazine 727 Alder Circle - Va Beach, Va - 23462 -(757) 467-3764
