Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
>> Nicholas Geti wrote: >> > And over that same period prices of houses rose astronomically. > > > Ok. So here's my advice for you two lads. Borrow as much money as you can at whatever interest rate you are asked. If the interest rate is tied to inflation or to nominal rate then THAT'S better than static interest. Go ahead! The world will be yours! >>> You are doing the same thing as Geoff. Adding assumptions to the >>> borrowing >>> model that started this discussion. I have never seen an interest rate >>> for >>> borrowing tied to inflation. They are always fixed rates. >>> >>> >> Yup, tell that to the poor people that lost their homes to rising >> interest rates! >> >> >> >> > You are still going off the original topic. We were talking about loans at > fixed interest rates; not whether borrowers had the skill to evaluate > risk. > Obviously they were either stupid or lied to and believed the lie. When I > got my fixed rate mortgage, most banks refused to lend the money even with > the income from my wife. They were tough 40 years ago. > I don't give a rat's ass for your prehistoric stories about how you bought your house 40 years ago. We are talking of what's going on right now, and the credits that provoked the present situation were taken at most 4 years ago I guess. Ricardo, Again you have missed my point. I was trying to show what inflation has done to the price of houses over the past 40 years. It closely parallels the chart that Pete put up last time. It demonstrates that one must invest as much money as one can and as early as one can into the types of property that grow in step with inflation. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
You're just incapable of a rational discussion, aren't you? * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Ricardo Aráoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Ricardo Aráoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "ProFox Email List" > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 5:58 PM > Nicholas Geti wrote: > > - Original Message - > > From: "Ricardo Aráoz" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "ProFox Email List" > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:11 PM > > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit > THE bottom. > > > > > > > >> Nicholas Geti wrote: > >> > >>>>> And over that same period prices of > houses rose astronomically. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> Ok. So here's my advice for you two > lads. Borrow as much money as you > >>>> can at whatever interest rate you are > asked. If the interest rate is > >>>> tied to inflation or to nominal rate then > THAT'S better than static > >>>> interest. Go ahead! The world will be > yours! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> You are doing the same thing as Geoff. Adding > assumptions to the > >>> borrowing > >>> model that started this discussion. I have > never seen an interest rate > >>> for > >>> borrowing tied to inflation. They are always > fixed rates. > >>> > >>> > >> Yup, tell that to the poor people that lost their > homes to rising > >> interest rates! > >> > >> > >> > >> > > You are still going off the original topic. We were > talking about loans at > > fixed interest rates; not whether borrowers had the > skill to evaluate risk. > > Obviously they were either stupid or lied to and > believed the lie. When I > > got my fixed rate mortgage, most banks refused to lend > the money even with > > the income from my wife. They were tough 40 years ago. > > > I don't give a rat's ass for your prehistoric > stories about how you > bought your house 40 years ago. We are talking of > what's going on right > now, and the credits that provoked the present situation > were taken at > most 4 years ago I guess. > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Nicholas Geti wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Ricardo Aráoz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "ProFox Email List" > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:11 PM > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > > > >> Nicholas Geti wrote: >> >>>>> And over that same period prices of houses rose astronomically. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Ok. So here's my advice for you two lads. Borrow as much money as you >>>> can at whatever interest rate you are asked. If the interest rate is >>>> tied to inflation or to nominal rate then THAT'S better than static >>>> interest. Go ahead! The world will be yours! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> You are doing the same thing as Geoff. Adding assumptions to the >>> borrowing >>> model that started this discussion. I have never seen an interest rate >>> for >>> borrowing tied to inflation. They are always fixed rates. >>> >>> >> Yup, tell that to the poor people that lost their homes to rising >> interest rates! >> >> >> >> > You are still going off the original topic. We were talking about loans at > fixed interest rates; not whether borrowers had the skill to evaluate risk. > Obviously they were either stupid or lied to and believed the lie. When I > got my fixed rate mortgage, most banks refused to lend the money even with > the income from my wife. They were tough 40 years ago. > I don't give a rat's ass for your prehistoric stories about how you bought your house 40 years ago. We are talking of what's going on right now, and the credits that provoked the present situation were taken at most 4 years ago I guess. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Michael Madigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There were a lot of people who were sold variable rates to get them into a > house they couldn't afford. In 5 years, their salary would be way higher and > of course interest rates would remain low. > > The sub-prime mortgage brokers were morally equivalent to drug dealers. > > * I don't think that I would go that far. I think that the creativity they generated in getting people approved, in a home or into an investment was amazing. We all see that it was all smoke and mirrors that the true value of those assets were going to keep climbing allowing this to happen. I say that the true killer to this dream was oil hovering around the 4.00 price. That was the killer that stole what little cash people had. Their food cost rose so much as well as the cost to get to work made in unlivable for way to many people. -- Stephen Russell Sr. Production Systems Programmer Mimeo.com Memphis TN 901.246-0159 ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
There were a lot of people who were sold variable rates to get them into a house they couldn't afford. In 5 years, their salary would be way higher and of course interest rates would remain low. The sub-prime mortgage brokers were morally equivalent to drug dealers. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Stephen Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Stephen Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "ProFox Email List" > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 9:14 AM > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 9:42 PM, Michael Madigan > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Only an idiot would get a variable-rate loan. > > > > * > > They were in fashion when your house was a short term 4 > year > investment. You expected to move upwards in the 4th year > so you > didn't care that the rate was going to change. > > This is the root of the greed in real estate values > problem. You were > sold an investment plan and many people followed it. TV > stations on > cable took up the cause and showed people how easy it was > to make > money on "flip that house" > > It is not that these people were stupid, they had no intent > to stay > put when they signed on the line the first or second time. > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
- Original Message - From: "MB Software Solutions General Account" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "ProFox Email List" Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > Nicholas Geti wrote: >> Not inflation but other indicies at the lenders choosing. >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjustable_rate_mortgage They did not exist >> when I bought my house 40 years ago. >> >> As an aside, I paid $44,500 for my house at that time. Last year it was >> evaluated at $650,000. I paid $257.00 per month fixed interest rate until >> the mortgage was paid off. So you can see what inflation has done to >> house >> prices. My income never grew at that same rate, however. Also I have >> spent >> an enormous amount maintaining my house and upgrading it. I do not >> consider >> it an investment; only a drain on my time and income. I am pretty sure >> that >> the house has been a net loss. > > > So if you had it to do over again, you'd rent instead of buy? > > Yes. And saved my money until I could live on the proceeds from investments then buy a house. But we were enamored of a owning a house when we were young and didn't think ahead. Owning a house consumes all of your free time. We rented an apartment in New York City for a couple of years while I got my MBA. It was quite nice. We walked home after work through Central Park, visited the museums and bought hot dogs or something from the street vendors. We could be home by 5:30 and have the whole evening to do what we wanted. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Nicholas Geti wrote: > Not inflation but other indicies at the lenders choosing. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjustable_rate_mortgage They did not exist > when I bought my house 40 years ago. > > As an aside, I paid $44,500 for my house at that time. Last year it was > evaluated at $650,000. I paid $257.00 per month fixed interest rate until > the mortgage was paid off. So you can see what inflation has done to house > prices. My income never grew at that same rate, however. Also I have spent > an enormous amount maintaining my house and upgrading it. I do not consider > it an investment; only a drain on my time and income. I am pretty sure that > the house has been a net loss. So if you had it to do over again, you'd rent instead of buy? ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Nicholas Geti wrote: >>> I have never seen an interest rate for borrowing tied to inflation. >>> They are always fixed rates. >> Seems to me that the so-called "adjustable-rate" mortgages are >> indirectly tied to inflation. > Not inflation but other indicies at the lenders choosing. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjustable_rate_mortgage They did not exist > when I bought my house 40 years ago. > > I am pretty sure that the house has been a net loss. Hi Nicholas! I may have gotten lucky with my condo. I picked it up in '91 for $27.5 K furnished, refinanced with a little cash out once and rolled it over to a reverse mortgage a year and a half ago for $100K. I have been plagued by maintenance issues, not to mention the condo Nazis. I guess I broke even, though. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
- Original Message - From: "Ricardo Aráoz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "ProFox Email List" Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > Nicholas Geti wrote: >>>> And over that same period prices of houses rose astronomically. >>>> >>>> >>> Ok. So here's my advice for you two lads. Borrow as much money as you >>> can at whatever interest rate you are asked. If the interest rate is >>> tied to inflation or to nominal rate then THAT'S better than static >>> interest. Go ahead! The world will be yours! >>> >>> >>> >> You are doing the same thing as Geoff. Adding assumptions to the >> borrowing >> model that started this discussion. I have never seen an interest rate >> for >> borrowing tied to inflation. They are always fixed rates. >> > > Yup, tell that to the poor people that lost their homes to rising > interest rates! > > > You are still going off the original topic. We were talking about loans at fixed interest rates; not whether borrowers had the skill to evaluate risk. Obviously they were either stupid or lied to and believed the lie. When I got my fixed rate mortgage, most banks refused to lend the money even with the income from my wife. They were tough 40 years ago. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
- Original Message - From: "Pete Theisen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "ProFox Email List" Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > Nicholas Geti wrote: > >> I have never seen an interest rate for borrowing tied to inflation. >> They are always fixed rates. > > Hi Nicholas! > > Seems to me that the so-called "adjustable-rate" mortgages are > indirectly tied to inflation. > -- > Regards, > > Pete > http://pete-theisen.com/ Not inflation but other indicies at the lenders choosing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjustable_rate_mortgage They did not exist when I bought my house 40 years ago. As an aside, I paid $44,500 for my house at that time. Last year it was evaluated at $650,000. I paid $257.00 per month fixed interest rate until the mortgage was paid off. So you can see what inflation has done to house prices. My income never grew at that same rate, however. Also I have spent an enormous amount maintaining my house and upgrading it. I do not consider it an investment; only a drain on my time and income. I am pretty sure that the house has been a net loss. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 9:42 PM, Michael Madigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Only an idiot would get a variable-rate loan. > > * They were in fashion when your house was a short term 4 year investment. You expected to move upwards in the 4th year so you didn't care that the rate was going to change. This is the root of the greed in real estate values problem. You were sold an investment plan and many people followed it. TV stations on cable took up the cause and showed people how easy it was to make money on "flip that house" It is not that these people were stupid, they had no intent to stay put when they signed on the line the first or second time. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Our fixed rate loans are today 3% lower than they were 6months ago. Only an idiot would get a fixed rate loan. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan Sent: Thursday, 4 December 2008 2:12 PM To: ProFox Email List Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. Only an idiot would get a variable-rate loan. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Ricardo Aráoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Ricardo Aráoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "ProFox Email List" > Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 11:11 PM > Nicholas Geti wrote: > >>> And over that same period prices of houses > rose astronomically. > >>> > >>> > >> Ok. So here's my advice for you two lads. > Borrow as much money as you > >> can at whatever interest rate you are asked. If > the interest rate is > >> tied to inflation or to nominal rate then > THAT'S better than static > >> interest. Go ahead! The world will be yours! > >> > >> > >> > > You are doing the same thing as Geoff. Adding > assumptions to the borrowing > > model that started this discussion. I have never seen > an interest rate for > > borrowing tied to inflation. They are always fixed > rates. > > > > Yup, tell that to the poor people that lost their homes to > rising > interest rates! > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Michael Madigan wrote: > Only an idiot would get a variable-rate loan. Hi Michael! Yes, I had second thoughts and converted it into a reverse when I turned 62. That worked out for me big time. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Only an idiot would get a variable-rate loan. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Ricardo Aráoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Ricardo Aráoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "ProFox Email List" > Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 11:11 PM > Nicholas Geti wrote: > >>> And over that same period prices of houses > rose astronomically. > >>> > >>> > >> Ok. So here's my advice for you two lads. > Borrow as much money as you > >> can at whatever interest rate you are asked. If > the interest rate is > >> tied to inflation or to nominal rate then > THAT'S better than static > >> interest. Go ahead! The world will be yours! > >> > >> > >> > > You are doing the same thing as Geoff. Adding > assumptions to the borrowing > > model that started this discussion. I have never seen > an interest rate for > > borrowing tied to inflation. They are always fixed > rates. > > > > Yup, tell that to the poor people that lost their homes to > rising > interest rates! > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Nicholas Geti wrote: >>> And over that same period prices of houses rose astronomically. >>> >>> >> Ok. So here's my advice for you two lads. Borrow as much money as you >> can at whatever interest rate you are asked. If the interest rate is >> tied to inflation or to nominal rate then THAT'S better than static >> interest. Go ahead! The world will be yours! >> >> >> > You are doing the same thing as Geoff. Adding assumptions to the borrowing > model that started this discussion. I have never seen an interest rate for > borrowing tied to inflation. They are always fixed rates. > Yup, tell that to the poor people that lost their homes to rising interest rates! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Michael Madigan wrote: > Indirectly if the rates go up along with inflation. >>> I have never seen an interest rate for borrowing tied >> to inflation. They are always fixed rates. >> Seems to me that the so-called "adjustable-rate" mortgages are >> indirectly tied to inflation. Hi Guys! A couple of years ago the entry level around here was $265K, now you are seeing $95K with maybe 20% vacant. Seems that the mortgages all had adjustable rates and scheduled balloon payments. The assumption was that the house would be worth half a million by now and the balloon mortgage would be refinanced. Now that can't be done. When people can't pull the balloon out of their back pockets the banks foreclose and throw them out on the street. Just business. They sell the house on the courthouse steps for $500 but for some reason the people living there aren't allowed to bid on it. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Nicholas Geti wrote: > In my area the price of houses in the last 15 years doubled and in some > cases tripled. The market was very hot. People were buying second houses for > resale. Condominiums were especially volatile. Many people I know where > putting down payments on condos that were just in the planning stages and a > year later when they were finished, resold them at double their money. Hi Nicholas! So the house went up 100 percent in that one year, while inflation went up 800 percent in 15 years? http://tinyurl.com/6e74eq Such a deal for short term speculators if they picked that one year, but those who actually lived in the home for 15 years would have lost unless they sold at the very peak. Sell now and you lose big if you bought at the peak. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Indirectly if the rates go up along with inflation. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Pete Theisen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Pete Theisen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "ProFox Email List" > Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 5:11 PM > Nicholas Geti wrote: > > > I have never seen an interest rate for borrowing tied > to inflation. > > They are always fixed rates. > > Hi Nicholas! > > Seems to me that the so-called "adjustable-rate" > mortgages are > indirectly tied to inflation. > -- > Regards, > > Pete > http://pete-theisen.com/ > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Nicholas Geti wrote: > I have never seen an interest rate for borrowing tied to inflation. > They are always fixed rates. Hi Nicholas! Seems to me that the so-called "adjustable-rate" mortgages are indirectly tied to inflation. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
- Original Message - From: "Pete Theisen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "ProFox Email List" Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > Nicholas Geti wrote: > >> >>> Nicholas Geti wrote: > >>>> Refer to my previous note. How do you figure the house is worth less >>>> after 30 years. > >>> http://tinyurl.com/6e74eq > >> And over that same period prices of houses rose astronomically. > > Hi Nicholas! > > I agree that the houses rose, but I wonder if they kept pace with > inflation. Seems to me that they have not. Might vary with local > conditions, though, where inflation is more national. > -- > Regards, > > Pete In my area the price of houses in the last 15 years doubled and in some cases tripled. The market was very hot. People were buying second houses for resale. Condominiums were especially volatile. Many people I know where putting down payments on condos that were just in the planning stages and a year later when they were finished, resold them at double their money. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
>> >> >> And over that same period prices of houses rose astronomically. >> > Ok. So here's my advice for you two lads. Borrow as much money as you > can at whatever interest rate you are asked. If the interest rate is > tied to inflation or to nominal rate then THAT'S better than static > interest. Go ahead! The world will be yours! > > You are doing the same thing as Geoff. Adding assumptions to the borrowing model that started this discussion. I have never seen an interest rate for borrowing tied to inflation. They are always fixed rates. There are other reasons why I don't borrow money. The biggest one is figuring out the risk required to pay back the loan. Risk involves two calculations: what is the inflation rate and where would I invest the money to earn more than I would pay back in interest. I am retired so my risk would be very high since I don't have the income to cover the loan. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Nicholas Geti wrote: > >> Nicholas Geti wrote: >>> Refer to my previous note. How do you figure the house is worth less >>> after 30 years. >> http://tinyurl.com/6e74eq > And over that same period prices of houses rose astronomically. Hi Nicholas! I agree that the houses rose, but I wonder if they kept pace with inflation. Seems to me that they have not. Might vary with local conditions, though, where inflation is more national. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Nicholas Geti wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Pete Theisen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "ProFox Email List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 12:55 PM > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > > > >> Nicholas Geti wrote: >> >> >>>> Really? Borrow $500,000 for a house at 10%pa while house prices are >>>> rising >>>> at an average 2%pa. Calculate in 30 years time how much you paid >>>> compared >>>> to how much the house is worth. YOU LOSE. Now try it the other way >>>> around. >>>> YOU WIN. Pretty basic really. >>>> >>>> >>> Refer to my previous note. How do you figure the house is worth less >>> after >>> 30 years. Not only do you pay with cheaper dollars but your house is >>> worth >>> more in dollar amounts. Your reasoning is goofy. >>> >> Hi Nicholas! >> >> That is a good question. Maybe adjusted for inflation? >> >> http://www.inflationdata.com/Inflation/images/charts/Annual_Inflation/inflation_Cumulative.htm >> >> or >> >> http://tinyurl.com/6e74eq >> >> -- >> Regards, >> >> Pete >> http://pete-theisen.com/ >> > > > And over that same period prices of houses rose astronomically. > Ok. So here's my advice for you two lads. Borrow as much money as you can at whatever interest rate you are asked. If the interest rate is tied to inflation or to nominal rate then THAT'S better than static interest. Go ahead! The world will be yours! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
- Original Message - From: "Pete Theisen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "ProFox Email List" Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > Nicholas Geti wrote: > >>> Really? Borrow $500,000 for a house at 10%pa while house prices are >>> rising >>> at an average 2%pa. Calculate in 30 years time how much you paid >>> compared >>> to how much the house is worth. YOU LOSE. Now try it the other way >>> around. >>> YOU WIN. Pretty basic really. >>> >> Refer to my previous note. How do you figure the house is worth less >> after >> 30 years. Not only do you pay with cheaper dollars but your house is >> worth >> more in dollar amounts. Your reasoning is goofy. > > Hi Nicholas! > > That is a good question. Maybe adjusted for inflation? > > http://www.inflationdata.com/Inflation/images/charts/Annual_Inflation/inflation_Cumulative.htm > > or > > http://tinyurl.com/6e74eq > > -- > Regards, > > Pete > http://pete-theisen.com/ And over that same period prices of houses rose astronomically. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Nicholas Geti wrote: >> Really? Borrow $500,000 for a house at 10%pa while house prices are rising >> at an average 2%pa. Calculate in 30 years time how much you paid compared >> to how much the house is worth. YOU LOSE. Now try it the other way around. >> YOU WIN. Pretty basic really. >> > Refer to my previous note. How do you figure the house is worth less after > 30 years. Not only do you pay with cheaper dollars but your house is worth > more in dollar amounts. Your reasoning is goofy. Hi Nicholas! That is a good question. Maybe adjusted for inflation? http://www.inflationdata.com/Inflation/images/charts/Annual_Inflation/inflation_Cumulative.htm or http://tinyurl.com/6e74eq -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
- Original Message - From: "Ricardo Aráoz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "ProFox Email List" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > Nicholas Geti wrote: >> - Original Message - >> From: "Geoff Flight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "'ProFox Email List'" >> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:20 PM >> Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. >> >> >> That is not even close to true. Borrowers are better off if inflation is >> greater then the interest rate on the loan - otherwise they lose. Same >> applies to incomes: if your income rises more than inflation then you are >> ahead and vice versa. Simple mathematics really. >> >> >> That is plain wrong. Interest rate has nothing to do with the >> calculation. A >> borrower is always better off. In fact if you want to consider the >> interest >> rate on the loan, realize that it is a fixed amount based on the original >> face value of the loan and has nothing to do with the inflation rate. >> Therefore the interest paid in dollars remains the same. >> >> > > But I thought that all the hassle with the market going down and all was > about the mortgages being tied to interest rates. And if you have > inflation then interest rates will certainly go up, i.e. tied to > inflation (or above it). Then, you are broke! > > That is exactly what is going to happen in the next couple of years. Wait until the 3 or 4 trillion that is currently being lent out hits the economy. Explosion. If you do not have investments that will mirror this action, you will lose. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
- Original Message - From: "Geoff Flight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'ProFox Email List'" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. There are a number of assumptions implicit in that scenario. Let's see if you can identify them. It makes ZERO mention of the wage/inflation comparison and absurdly assumes they are equal. History shows that in times of high inflation (eg 80s/90s) wages failed to keep up with inflation. It also makes ZERO mention of the asset price change over time once again making the infantile assumption that the asset appreciates over time at the same rate as the interest rate. One would have thought the current financial crisis would have made you loathe to quote this garbage. (Yes I know it is a text book - that doesn't stop it from being simplistic or downright wrong). The current American economy has high-ish inflation but at the same time it has plummeting house prices. You don't see anyone boasting about how borrowers are being benefited. And at the same time, wage rises are failing to keep up with inflation and the next year wil be even worse. And to repeat a basic tenet of borrowing is that you 'lose' if the interest rate exceeds the rate of appreciation of the asset (inflation). Economics is barely a science. Current events are disproving much of their 'theory'. Geoff, You are continuously expanding the model to make your point. Stick to the original concept of someone borrowing money at some fixed interest rate. If you want the model to run over all kinds of events following this loan then go ahead but it doesn't change the original facts. The borrower always makes out better in inflation on that loan. Whatever happens afterwards has no bearing on it. In fact how can all these following events you mention be written into the loan contract; no one can predict the future that precisely. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
- Original Message - From: "Geoff Flight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'ProFox Email List'" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > Really? Borrow $500,000 for a house at 10%pa while house prices are rising > at an average 2%pa. Calculate in 30 years time how much you paid compared > to > how much the house is worth. YOU LOSE. Now try it the other way around. > YOU > WIN. Pretty basic really. > Refer to my previous note. How do you figure the house is worth less after 30 years. Not only do you pay with cheaper dollars but your house is worth more in dollar amounts. Your reasoning is goofy. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Nicholas Geti wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Geoff Flight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:20 PM > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > > > That is not even close to true. Borrowers are better off if inflation is > greater then the interest rate on the loan - otherwise they lose. Same > applies to incomes: if your income rises more than inflation then you are > ahead and vice versa. Simple mathematics really. > > > That is plain wrong. Interest rate has nothing to do with the calculation. A > borrower is always better off. In fact if you want to consider the interest > rate on the loan, realize that it is a fixed amount based on the original > face value of the loan and has nothing to do with the inflation rate. > Therefore the interest paid in dollars remains the same. > > But I thought that all the hassle with the market going down and all was about the mortgages being tied to interest rates. And if you have inflation then interest rates will certainly go up, i.e. tied to inflation (or above it). Then, you are broke! ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Nicholas Geti wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Ricardo Aráoz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "ProFox Email List" > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:52 PM > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > > > Nicholas Geti wrote: > >> - Original Message - >> From: "Ricardo Aráoz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "ProFox Email List" >> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:47 PM >> Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. >> >> >> >> >>> Nicholas Geti wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Governments can never go bankrupt. They just print more money. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Besides which we should correct a concept here. If govt. prints money >>> (inflation) it is not the rich who'll pay the party, they will certainly >>> not have their money in cash, and what they have they will convert fast. >>> It is the poor bloke who'll pay, 100% of what he earns will be paying >>> the inflation tax (yes, it is a tax) while maybe only 5% of what a rich >>> bloke makes will pay that tax (same as what happens with VAT). >>> >>> >>> >> Ricardo, you need to understand the concept of money. It is irrelevant >> whether the rich have their worth in cash or other instruments. It is >> still >> "money" and is directly affected by inflation; everything they buy >> including >> other investment instruments will go up in price. >> >> >> > Don't quite get your point.If I have gold and my neighbour has dollars > worth the same value, and come inflation for dollars, with what I have I > can get more goods than my neighbour. You can exchange the gold for any > other "real" thing (houses, cars, actions). If I'm rich I have a much > bigger percentage of my worth in "real things" than a poor guy, and I > have the means to wait till the appropriate moment to buy or sell. So > obviously the poor lad will be buggered. > > > No, No. The price of gold will also fluctuate tending to keep all the items > in your example at the same relative value. > That's not inflation! If everything keeps it's relative value how can you tell? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
And FINALLY, you get the point. The reason borrowers are less concerned with being 'better off or worse off' is that they don't have a choice: they need a house - period. It isn't primarily an investment. Lenders however are treating the loan as an investment and therefore are far more concerned with making or losing money on it. Same result - different attitude. Inflation affects them similarly but the value-based effect is quite different. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 9:49 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. You're missing the utility of having a roof over your head. People normally don't buy houses to make money, they buy houses to live in. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 5:50 PM > Really? Borrow $500,000 for a house at 10%pa while house > prices are rising > at an average 2%pa. Calculate in 30 years time how much you > paid compared to > how much the house is worth. YOU LOSE. Now try it the other > way around. YOU > WIN. Pretty basic really. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Nicholas Geti > Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 9:13 AM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Geoff Flight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:20 PM > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > > That is not even close to true. Borrowers are better off if > inflation is > greater then the interest rate on the loan - otherwise they > lose. Same > applies to incomes: if your income rises more than > inflation then you are > ahead and vice versa. Simple mathematics really. > > > That is plain wrong. Interest rate has nothing to do with > the calculation. A > > borrower is always better off. In fact if you want to > consider the interest > rate on the loan, realize that it is a fixed amount based > on the original > face value of the loan and has nothing to do with the > inflation rate. > Therefore the interest paid in dollars remains the same. > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
You're missing the utility of having a roof over your head. People normally don't buy houses to make money, they buy houses to live in. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 5:50 PM > Really? Borrow $500,000 for a house at 10%pa while house > prices are rising > at an average 2%pa. Calculate in 30 years time how much you > paid compared to > how much the house is worth. YOU LOSE. Now try it the other > way around. YOU > WIN. Pretty basic really. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Nicholas Geti > Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 9:13 AM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Geoff Flight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:20 PM > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > > That is not even close to true. Borrowers are better off if > inflation is > greater then the interest rate on the loan - otherwise they > lose. Same > applies to incomes: if your income rises more than > inflation then you are > ahead and vice versa. Simple mathematics really. > > > That is plain wrong. Interest rate has nothing to do with > the calculation. A > > borrower is always better off. In fact if you want to > consider the interest > rate on the loan, realize that it is a fixed amount based > on the original > face value of the loan and has nothing to do with the > inflation rate. > Therefore the interest paid in dollars remains the same. > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Really? Borrow $500,000 for a house at 10%pa while house prices are rising at an average 2%pa. Calculate in 30 years time how much you paid compared to how much the house is worth. YOU LOSE. Now try it the other way around. YOU WIN. Pretty basic really. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nicholas Geti Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 9:13 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. - Original Message - From: "Geoff Flight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'ProFox Email List'" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:20 PM Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. That is not even close to true. Borrowers are better off if inflation is greater then the interest rate on the loan - otherwise they lose. Same applies to incomes: if your income rises more than inflation then you are ahead and vice versa. Simple mathematics really. That is plain wrong. Interest rate has nothing to do with the calculation. A borrower is always better off. In fact if you want to consider the interest rate on the loan, realize that it is a fixed amount based on the original face value of the loan and has nothing to do with the inflation rate. Therefore the interest paid in dollars remains the same. [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
There are a number of assumptions implicit in that scenario. Let's see if you can identify them. It makes ZERO mention of the wage/inflation comparison and absurdly assumes they are equal. History shows that in times of high inflation (eg 80s/90s) wages failed to keep up with inflation. It also makes ZERO mention of the asset price change over time once again making the infantile assumption that the asset appreciates over time at the same rate as the interest rate. One would have thought the current financial crisis would have made you loathe to quote this garbage. (Yes I know it is a text book - that doesnt stop it from being simplistic or downright wrong). The current American economy has high-ish inflation but at the same time it has plummeting house prices. You dont see anyone boasting about how borrowers are being benefited. And at the same time, wage rises are failing to keep up with inflation and the next year wil be even worse. And to repeat a basic tenet of borrowing is that you 'lose' if the interest rate exceeds the rate of appreciation of the asset (inflation). Economics is barely a science. Current events are disproving much of their 'theory'. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 9:02 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. You must enjoy sticking your foot in your mouth over and over again. "Wealth effects. Inflation redistributes income between borrowers and lenders. Suppose you borrow $100,000 for a 30-year mortgage at 7% interest, giving you a monthly housepayment of about $665. During the next 30 years, as prices rise, that $665 buys less and less. So as a borrower, the real value of your housepayment declines. Thus a borrower may gain from high inflation. The lender however, receives $665 per month, so the lender loses. If inflation is high enough the $239,400 the lender receives in loan and interest repayment over the next 30 years ($665 x 12 months x 30 years) will be worth LESS in real terms than the $100,000 the borrower receives today. Inflation hurts lenders but benefits borrowers, especially if it is unexpected. So the Wall Street banker is much more worried about inflation than Joe Average with a mortgage and a car payment. " http://www.oswego.edu/~edunne/200ch7.html * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 5:20 PM > That is not even close to true. Borrowers are better off if > inflation is > greater then the interest rate on the loan - otherwise they > lose. Same > applies to incomes: if your income rises more than > inflation then you are > ahead and vice versa. Simple mathematics really. > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Michael Madigan > Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 8:36 AM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > Most incomes go up quicker in inflationary times. > > It is generally recognized that borrowers gain value in > inflationary times > and lenders lose value. > > > > * > Barack Obama is not My President > > http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike > > > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Ricardo Aráoz > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Ricardo Aráoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit > THE bottom. > > To: "ProFox Email List" > > > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 5:53 PM > > Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > > > Nicholas, > > > > > > > > >> Ricardo, you need to understand the concept > of > > money. > > >> It is irrelevant whether the rich have their > worth > > in > > >> cash or other instruments. It is still > > "money" and is > > >> directly affected by inflation; everything > they > > buy > > >> including other investment instruments will > go up > > >> in price. > > >> > > > > > > Another feature of inflation is that all of us > with > > mortgages or other loans > > > wind up repaying them in inflated dollars. That > fact > > does even out some of > > > the impact of inflation on both the rich and the > poor,
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
- Original Message - From: "Geoff Flight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'ProFox Email List'" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:20 PM Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. That is not even close to true. Borrowers are better off if inflation is greater then the interest rate on the loan - otherwise they lose. Same applies to incomes: if your income rises more than inflation then you are ahead and vice versa. Simple mathematics really. That is plain wrong. Interest rate has nothing to do with the calculation. A borrower is always better off. In fact if you want to consider the interest rate on the loan, realize that it is a fixed amount based on the original face value of the loan and has nothing to do with the inflation rate. Therefore the interest paid in dollars remains the same. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
- Original Message - From: "Ricardo Aráoz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "ProFox Email List" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > Kristyne McDaniel wrote: >> Nicholas, >> >> >>> Ricardo, you need to understand the concept of money. >>> It is irrelevant whether the rich have their worth in >>> cash or other instruments. It is still "money" and is >>> directly affected by inflation; everything they buy >>> including other investment instruments will go up >>> in price. >>> >> >> Another feature of inflation is that all of us with mortgages or other >> loans >> wind up repaying them in inflated dollars. That fact does even out some >> of >> the impact of inflation on both the rich and the poor, although the poor >> obviously are more severely impacted because of the rise in rent, food, >> and >> other goods. >> > > Unless your loans are somehow tied to inflation. Right? In which case > you will loose big. Because your income will not be tied to inflation. > > That is true. If you lend out the money, you lose by the amount of inflation that has occurred. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
- Original Message - From: "Ricardo Aráoz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "ProFox Email List" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. Nicholas Geti wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Ricardo Aráoz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "ProFox Email List" > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:47 PM > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > > > >> Nicholas Geti wrote: >> >>> Governments can never go bankrupt. They just print more money. >>> >>> >>> >> Besides which we should correct a concept here. If govt. prints money >> (inflation) it is not the rich who'll pay the party, they will certainly >> not have their money in cash, and what they have they will convert fast. >> It is the poor bloke who'll pay, 100% of what he earns will be paying >> the inflation tax (yes, it is a tax) while maybe only 5% of what a rich >> bloke makes will pay that tax (same as what happens with VAT). >> >> > Ricardo, you need to understand the concept of money. It is irrelevant > whether the rich have their worth in cash or other instruments. It is > still > "money" and is directly affected by inflation; everything they buy > including > other investment instruments will go up in price. > > Don't quite get your point.If I have gold and my neighbour has dollars worth the same value, and come inflation for dollars, with what I have I can get more goods than my neighbour. You can exchange the gold for any other "real" thing (houses, cars, actions). If I'm rich I have a much bigger percentage of my worth in "real things" than a poor guy, and I have the means to wait till the appropriate moment to buy or sell. So obviously the poor lad will be buggered. No, No. The price of gold will also fluctuate tending to keep all the items in your example at the same relative value. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
- Original Message - From: "Kristyne McDaniel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'ProFox Email List'" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:20 PM Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > Nicholas, > >> Ricardo, you need to understand the concept of money. >> It is irrelevant whether the rich have their worth in >> cash or other instruments. It is still "money" and is >> directly affected by inflation; everything they buy >> including other investment instruments will go up >> in price. > > Another feature of inflation is that all of us with mortgages or other > loans > wind up repaying them in inflated dollars. That fact does even out some of > the impact of inflation on both the rich and the poor, although the poor > obviously are more severely impacted because of the rise in rent, food, > and > other goods. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ Good point. Borrowers like inflation because they pay back the same number of dollars but have more of them with which to pay back due to inflation. So far Paulson has lent out or promised over $5 trillion dollars besides the amount actually given away in the first 500Billion under TARP. This is insane!!! We are propping up institutions that should really go out of business to punish the crooks and excessively lousy and greedy management. We will now be left with inefficient firms. Why not give the money directly to laid off workers to help them find another job rather than prop up management? I am convinced it would be a cheaper way to go. If GM or Ford should declare bankruptcy now we can let the market sort out the new supply and pricing of goods. It means all labor contracts and purchasing contracts are null and void and we can start over with a clean slate. Toyota or any other firm currently building cars in America can pick up the slack if necessary. Maybe car prices will drop allowing poorer people to buy one. Airlines declare bankruptcy every year or so and no one seems to have a problem with that. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
You must enjoy sticking your foot in your mouth over and over again. "Wealth effects. Inflation redistributes income between borrowers and lenders. Suppose you borrow $100,000 for a 30-year mortgage at 7% interest, giving you a monthly housepayment of about $665. During the next 30 years, as prices rise, that $665 buys less and less. So as a borrower, the real value of your housepayment declines. Thus a borrower may gain from high inflation. The lender however, receives $665 per month, so the lender loses. If inflation is high enough the $239,400 the lender receives in loan and interest repayment over the next 30 years ($665 x 12 months x 30 years) will be worth LESS in real terms than the $100,000 the borrower receives today. Inflation hurts lenders but benefits borrowers, especially if it is unexpected. So the Wall Street banker is much more worried about inflation than Joe Average with a mortgage and a car payment. " http://www.oswego.edu/~edunne/200ch7.html * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 5:20 PM > That is not even close to true. Borrowers are better off if > inflation is > greater then the interest rate on the loan - otherwise they > lose. Same > applies to incomes: if your income rises more than > inflation then you are > ahead and vice versa. Simple mathematics really. > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Michael Madigan > Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 8:36 AM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > Most incomes go up quicker in inflationary times. > > It is generally recognized that borrowers gain value in > inflationary times > and lenders lose value. > > > > * > Barack Obama is not My President > > http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike > > > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Ricardo Aráoz > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Ricardo Aráoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit > THE bottom. > > To: "ProFox Email List" > > > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 5:53 PM > > Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > > > Nicholas, > > > > > > > > >> Ricardo, you need to understand the concept > of > > money. > > >> It is irrelevant whether the rich have their > worth > > in > > >> cash or other instruments. It is still > > "money" and is > > >> directly affected by inflation; everything > they > > buy > > >> including other investment instruments will > go up > > >> in price. > > >> > > > > > > Another feature of inflation is that all of us > with > > mortgages or other loans > > > wind up repaying them in inflated dollars. That > fact > > does even out some of > > > the impact of inflation on both the rich and the > poor, > > although the poor > > > obviously are more severely impacted because of > the > > rise in rent, food, and > > > other goods. > > > > > > > Unless your loans are somehow tied to inflation. > Right? In > > which case > > you will loose big. Because your income will not be > tied to > > inflation. > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > > > ___ > > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > > Subscription Maintenance: > > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > > OT-free version of this list: > > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > > Searchable Archive: > http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > > This message: > > > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, > are > > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute > legal or > > medical advice. This statement is added to the > messages for > > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
That is not even close to true. Borrowers are better off if inflation is greater then the interest rate on the loan - otherwise they lose. Same applies to incomes: if your income rises more than inflation then you are ahead and vice versa. Simple mathematics really. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 8:36 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. Most incomes go up quicker in inflationary times. It is generally recognized that borrowers gain value in inflationary times and lenders lose value. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Ricardo Aráoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Ricardo Aráoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "ProFox Email List" > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 5:53 PM > Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > > Nicholas, > > > > > >> Ricardo, you need to understand the concept of > money. > >> It is irrelevant whether the rich have their worth > in > >> cash or other instruments. It is still > "money" and is > >> directly affected by inflation; everything they > buy > >> including other investment instruments will go up > >> in price. > >> > > > > Another feature of inflation is that all of us with > mortgages or other loans > > wind up repaying them in inflated dollars. That fact > does even out some of > > the impact of inflation on both the rich and the poor, > although the poor > > obviously are more severely impacted because of the > rise in rent, food, and > > other goods. > > > > Unless your loans are somehow tied to inflation. Right? In > which case > you will loose big. Because your income will not be tied to > inflation. > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Most incomes go up quicker in inflationary times. It is generally recognized that borrowers gain value in inflationary times and lenders lose value. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Ricardo Aráoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Ricardo Aráoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "ProFox Email List" > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 5:53 PM > Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > > Nicholas, > > > > > >> Ricardo, you need to understand the concept of > money. > >> It is irrelevant whether the rich have their worth > in > >> cash or other instruments. It is still > "money" and is > >> directly affected by inflation; everything they > buy > >> including other investment instruments will go up > >> in price. > >> > > > > Another feature of inflation is that all of us with > mortgages or other loans > > wind up repaying them in inflated dollars. That fact > does even out some of > > the impact of inflation on both the rich and the poor, > although the poor > > obviously are more severely impacted because of the > rise in rent, food, and > > other goods. > > > > Unless your loans are somehow tied to inflation. Right? In > which case > you will loose big. Because your income will not be tied to > inflation. > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > Nicholas, > > >> Ricardo, you need to understand the concept of money. >> It is irrelevant whether the rich have their worth in >> cash or other instruments. It is still "money" and is >> directly affected by inflation; everything they buy >> including other investment instruments will go up >> in price. >> > > Another feature of inflation is that all of us with mortgages or other loans > wind up repaying them in inflated dollars. That fact does even out some of > the impact of inflation on both the rich and the poor, although the poor > obviously are more severely impacted because of the rise in rent, food, and > other goods. > Unless your loans are somehow tied to inflation. Right? In which case you will loose big. Because your income will not be tied to inflation. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Nicholas Geti wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Ricardo Aráoz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "ProFox Email List" > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:47 PM > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > > > >> Nicholas Geti wrote: >> >>> Governments can never go bankrupt. They just print more money. >>> >>> >>> >> Besides which we should correct a concept here. If govt. prints money >> (inflation) it is not the rich who'll pay the party, they will certainly >> not have their money in cash, and what they have they will convert fast. >> It is the poor bloke who'll pay, 100% of what he earns will be paying >> the inflation tax (yes, it is a tax) while maybe only 5% of what a rich >> bloke makes will pay that tax (same as what happens with VAT). >> >> > Ricardo, you need to understand the concept of money. It is irrelevant > whether the rich have their worth in cash or other instruments. It is still > "money" and is directly affected by inflation; everything they buy including > other investment instruments will go up in price. > > Don't quite get your point.If I have gold and my neighbour has dollars worth the same value, and come inflation for dollars, with what I have I can get more goods than my neighbour. You can exchange the gold for any other "real" thing (houses, cars, actions). If I'm rich I have a much bigger percentage of my worth in "real things" than a poor guy, and I have the means to wait till the appropriate moment to buy or sell. So obviously the poor lad will be buggered. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Nicholas, > Ricardo, you need to understand the concept of money. > It is irrelevant whether the rich have their worth in > cash or other instruments. It is still "money" and is > directly affected by inflation; everything they buy > including other investment instruments will go up > in price. Another feature of inflation is that all of us with mortgages or other loans wind up repaying them in inflated dollars. That fact does even out some of the impact of inflation on both the rich and the poor, although the poor obviously are more severely impacted because of the rise in rent, food, and other goods. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
I take full responsibility. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Mon, 12/1/08, James Roark(The Dogstar Group) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: James Roark(The Dogstar Group) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "ProFox Email List" > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 9:59 AM > Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > > Madigan, > > > > > >> Care to explain this strange attack? > >> > > > > Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom > and then act > > surprised when gloom and doom happen. > > > Please check todays numbers... It gets even better. > Jim > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > Madigan, > > >> Care to explain this strange attack? >> > > Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom and then act > surprised when gloom and doom happen. > Please check todays numbers... It gets even better. Jim --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
- Original Message - From: "Ricardo Aráoz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "ProFox Email List" Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > Nicholas Geti wrote: >> Governments can never go bankrupt. They just print more money. >> >> > > Besides which we should correct a concept here. If govt. prints money > (inflation) it is not the rich who'll pay the party, they will certainly > not have their money in cash, and what they have they will convert fast. > It is the poor bloke who'll pay, 100% of what he earns will be paying > the inflation tax (yes, it is a tax) while maybe only 5% of what a rich > bloke makes will pay that tax (same as what happens with VAT). > Ricardo, you need to understand the concept of money. It is irrelevant whether the rich have their worth in cash or other instruments. It is still "money" and is directly affected by inflation; everything they buy including other investment instruments will go up in price. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
KAM.covad wrote: > Funny how few people realize that. Some congressman can promise them a > handout and they will vote for him. They just can't seem to > realize that handout will not buy what it bought yesterday. Not only that, > their kids will have to pay it back someday. The > European governments are well aware of inflation. That is the only mandate > their central bank has. They have lived through the days > when it took a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread. Here in the > US we had terrible inflation in the 1970's, but it was > only a few years and now everyone has forgotten. I still remember trying to > buy my first home with 18% interest. Those numbers > don't work. > 18%??? That's nothing! We've had hyperinflation here (not as much as Germany after the war) and let me tell you it is ugly. And it is always the poor lads who pay, his salary goes down every day and he gets a raise every month, only there you've got a huge difference that favours people with money. Anyway it is not convenient to anyone, money or not money. > > - Original Message - > From: "Ricardo Aráoz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "ProFox Email List" > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 2:47 PM > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > > > Nicholas Geti wrote: > >> Governments can never go bankrupt. They just print more money. >> > > Besides which we should correct a concept here. If govt. prints money > (inflation) it is not the rich who'll pay the party, they will certainly > not have their money in cash, and what they have they will convert fast. > It is the poor bloke who'll pay, 100% of what he earns will be paying > the inflation tax (yes, it is a tax) while maybe only 5% of what a rich > bloke makes will pay that tax (same as what happens with VAT). > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Funny how few people realize that. Some congressman can promise them a handout and they will vote for him. They just can't seem to realize that handout will not buy what it bought yesterday. Not only that, their kids will have to pay it back someday. The European governments are well aware of inflation. That is the only mandate their central bank has. They have lived through the days when it took a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread. Here in the US we had terrible inflation in the 1970's, but it was only a few years and now everyone has forgotten. I still remember trying to buy my first home with 18% interest. Those numbers don't work. - Original Message - From: "Ricardo Aráoz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "ProFox Email List" Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. Nicholas Geti wrote: > Governments can never go bankrupt. They just print more money. Besides which we should correct a concept here. If govt. prints money (inflation) it is not the rich who'll pay the party, they will certainly not have their money in cash, and what they have they will convert fast. It is the poor bloke who'll pay, 100% of what he earns will be paying the inflation tax (yes, it is a tax) while maybe only 5% of what a rich bloke makes will pay that tax (same as what happens with VAT). ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Nicholas Geti wrote: > Governments can never go bankrupt. They just print more money. > > Besides which we should correct a concept here. If govt. prints money (inflation) it is not the rich who'll pay the party, they will certainly not have their money in cash, and what they have they will convert fast. It is the poor bloke who'll pay, 100% of what he earns will be paying the inflation tax (yes, it is a tax) while maybe only 5% of what a rich bloke makes will pay that tax (same as what happens with VAT). > - Original Message - > From: "Leland Jackson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "ProFox Email List" > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 3:04 PM > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > > > >> Having the USA government go out of business is a risky proposition; >> since, an unknown will fill the power vacuum, and its hard to predict >> how you and I might fare in the new environment, but the odds are we >> wouldn't fare well. >> >> Regards, >> >> LelandJ >> >> >> >> Pete Theisen wrote: >> >>> Leland Jackson wrote: >>> >>> >>>> First things first. Having excessive deficit spending is irrelevant, if >>>> the USA goes bankrupt. >>>> >>>> >>> Hi Leland! >>> >>> So run up a huge debt and declare bankruptcy? The guys stuck with the >>> bill are the richies, vast numbers of whom are foreign nationals. >>> >>> ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Governments can never go bankrupt. They just print more money. - Original Message - From: "Leland Jackson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "ProFox Email List" Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > Having the USA government go out of business is a risky proposition; > since, an unknown will fill the power vacuum, and its hard to predict > how you and I might fare in the new environment, but the odds are we > wouldn't fare well. > > Regards, > > LelandJ > > > > Pete Theisen wrote: >> Leland Jackson wrote: >> >>> First things first. Having excessive deficit spending is irrelevant, if >>> the USA goes bankrupt. >>> >> >> Hi Leland! >> >> So run up a huge debt and declare bankruptcy? The guys stuck with the >> bill are the richies, vast numbers of whom are foreign nationals. >> > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 4:36 PM, John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The economy is bad, we've only got 94.5% of the people working! The > depression had 25% out of work, we have a ways to go yet -- You guys are quoting Sept. numbers I think. It is getting a lot worse at least around here. Distribution centers that use to have 2 or 3 shifts now have only one. Worker counts that use to be close to 100 now are down around 20 or less. It is getting bad out there. -- Stephen Russell Sr. Production Systems Programmer Mimeo.com Memphis TN 901.246-0159 ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Pete Theisen wrote: > Leland Jackson wrote: > > >> On June 2, 1987 President Reagan nominates Greenspan for chairman of the >> Federal Reserve Board, which he served for five terms until January 31, >> 2006. He served under the following presidents: >> >> 2 terms - Ronald Reagan - Republican >> 1 term - George H. W. Bush - Republican >> 2 terms - Bill Clinton - Democrat >> 2 terms -George W. Bush - Republican >> >> Therefore, the republican must assume 5/7 responsibility for the credit >> crisis, and the Democrats must assume 2/7 responsibility for the credit >> crisis. LOL >> > > Hi Leland! > > Your usual D spin, It was one year of Greenspan under Reagan, not two > presidential terms. Anyway, the all came down in Bush W's term, > more the war than anything else. A war that *should* have been fought > and won on C-man's watch. > Evidentially, the mortgage companies were putting together portfolios of mortgages and selling them on the stock exchange as high yield investments worldwide, (eg Mortgage Backed Securities, a kind of derivative). These kinds of investments were supposedly safe LOL ; because, they were collateralized, (eg backed) by real estate like houses, building, etc and payments guaranteed by the big banks through credit default swaps. Everyone wanted into these Mortgage Backed Securities, as the returns were so high and the value of the collateral was also high as the bubble grew. Then when the housing market went south, all hell broke loss. These Mortgage Backed Securities were brought and sold long and short as people bet on the value derived from the underlying mortgages which provided the income for the cash distributions to investors. Regards, LelandJ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Leland Jackson wrote: > On June 2, 1987 President Reagan nominates Greenspan for chairman of the > Federal Reserve Board, which he served for five terms until January 31, > 2006. He served under the following presidents: > > 2 terms - Ronald Reagan - Republican > 1 term - George H. W. Bush - Republican > 2 terms - Bill Clinton - Democrat > 2 terms -George W. Bush - Republican > > Therefore, the republican must assume 5/7 responsibility for the credit > crisis, and the Democrats must assume 2/7 responsibility for the credit > crisis. LOL Hi Leland! Your usual D spin, It was one year of Greenspan under Reagan, not two presidential terms. Anyway, the all came down in Bush W's term, more the war than anything else. A war that *should* have been fought and won on C-man's watch. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Having the USA government go out of business is a risky proposition; since, an unknown will fill the power vacuum, and its hard to predict how you and I might fare in the new environment, but the odds are we wouldn't fare well. Regards, LelandJ Pete Theisen wrote: > Leland Jackson wrote: > >> First things first. Having excessive deficit spending is irrelevant, if >> the USA goes bankrupt. >> > > Hi Leland! > > So run up a huge debt and declare bankruptcy? The guys stuck with the > bill are the richies, vast numbers of whom are foreign nationals. > ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
According to the "United States housing bubble" Wiki, On October 15, 2008, Anthony Faiola, Ellen Nakashima and Jill Drew , wrote a lengthy article in the Washington Post titled, "What Went Wrong." In their investigation, the authors claim that Greenspan vehemently opposed any regulation of financial instruments known as derivatives. They further claim that Greenspan actively sought to undermine the office of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, specifically under the leadership of Brooksley E. Born, when the Commission sought to initiate regulation of derivatives. Ultimately, it was the collapse of a specific kind of derivative, the Mortgage Backed Security, that triggered the economic crisis of 2008. On October 17, 2008, attorney Timothy D. Naegele, wrote an article in the American Banker entitled, "Greenspan's Fingerprints All Over Enduring Mess," which argues that Greenspan's actions and inactions triggered the economic crisis of 2008. The article discusses the economic tsunami that has been rolling worldwide with devastating effects; and the author asserts that Greenspan is the architect of the enormous economic "bubble" that burst globally. The author cites Giulio Tremonti, Italy's Minister of Economy and Finance, who said: "Greenspan was considered a master. Now we must ask ourselves whether he is not, after [Osama] bin Laden, the man who hurt America the most." On June 2, 1987 President Reagan nominates Greenspan for chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, which he served for five terms until January 31, 2006. He served under the following presidents: 2 terms - Ronald Reagan - Republican 1 term - George H. W. Bush - Republican 2 terms - Bill Clinton - Democrat 2 terms -George W. Bush - Republican Therefore, the republican must assume 5/7 responsibility for the credit crisis, and the Democrats must assume 2/7 responsibility for the credit crisis. LOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_housing_bubble http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortgage-backed_security Regards, LelandJ Pete Theisen wrote: > John wrote: > >> > banks can retire the old mortgages in default with new mortgages that are >> performing on the underlying real estate collateral.> >> > > Hi John! > > The people didn't have to even move. They could just refinance into one > of the "new mortgages" based on the bubble "value" of their home. And > they had to do that just to stay alive because all their neighbors were > doing it. Prices of everything else rose to absorb the new "money", most > of this going for food, fuel, health care and other everyday necessities. > > Same old house, big new debt. > ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Leland Jackson wrote: > First things first. Having excessive deficit spending is irrelevant, if > the USA goes bankrupt. Hi Leland! So run up a huge debt and declare bankruptcy? The guys stuck with the bill are the richies, vast numbers of whom are foreign nationals. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
John wrote: > banks can retire the old mortgages in default with new mortgages that are > performing on the underlying real estate collateral.> Hi John! The people didn't have to even move. They could just refinance into one of the "new mortgages" based on the bubble "value" of their home. And they had to do that just to stay alive because all their neighbors were doing it. Prices of everything else rose to absorb the new "money", most of this going for food, fuel, health care and other everyday necessities. Same old house, big new debt. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Also, the security laws regulating trading in derivatives needs to be reformed to make it illegal to simple gambler or bet on a derivative. Only investors that have a vested interest in the underlying item on which a value is derived should be allowed to invest the derivatives. Regards, LelandJ Leland Jackson wrote: > First things first. Having excessive deficit spending is irrelevant, if > the USA goes bankrupt. Right now it's important to turn the economic > decline around, which will require some short term spending to put the > unemployed back to work, to prevent additional losses in employment, and > to create new directions in the Auto and Energy Industries. Once we get > money back into the consumers hands, (eg the middle class), and relax > fears over a possible economic collapse, and give some time for the > housing industry to work out its problems due to overbuilding, credit > policies will relax and the economy will begin to grow. Then we can > look at putting legislation in place to deal with chronic deficit > spending feeding an ever growing huge national debt. It's going to take > some time and there will be some bumps in the road, but current > conditions will eventually reverse. > > So, the short term plan is to deal with the economic recession, and when > the economy reverses, the long term plan includes dealing with deficit > spending and a growing national debt. > > Regards, > > LelandJ > > > John wrote: > >> < Countrywide Financial was a chain of 200 or 300 saving and loan companies, >> sometime called thrift institutions, located in California and Nevada. >> Countrywide was one of the first mortgage companies to get in trouble >> writing risky mortgages, including ARMs, (eg adjustable rate mortgages), >> which provided options where the borrower could elect to make payments on >> the principal only or even make payments that didn't even cover the monthly >> principle, but with a provision that would reset the mortgage at least once >> every five year to the going interest rate and a payment that would amortize >> the debt. When the interest rate time bombs started going off, Countrywide >> found itself facing bankruptcy, but was eventually merge with Bank of >> America, who probably held most of Countrywide's credit default swaps, so >> the big banks that were heavy into derivatives like CDS ended up holding the >> bag. Now its just a matter of getting people into the houses so the big >> banks can retire the old mortgages in default with new mortgages that are >> performing on the underlying real estate collateral.> >> >> All this was predicated upon the fannie mae and Freddie mac debacle. It is >> my understanding that the dems pushed through legislation that forced >> lending institutions to make loans to people (particularly minorities) who >> could not afford them. I fault the dems for that, and for not reigning in >> fannie and Freddie. The repubs had majorities in both houses, but decided to >> fatten themselves, instead of taking care of business, so they get a piece >> of blame on this too. Bush and the congress have grown the size of >> government and the cost. In Bush's defense, he did have a war that drove the >> cost up, but he never said much about what congress was doing either. >> There's enough blame to go around. >> >> The big issue is what is Obama going to do about it. All indications are >> that he is going to continue to grow government and spending will increase >> even more. It doesn't look good. Maybe gold is the best thing to invest in, >> given the dismal outlook >> >> John Harvey >> >> >> >> [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
First things first. Having excessive deficit spending is irrelevant, if the USA goes bankrupt. Right now it's important to turn the economic decline around, which will require some short term spending to put the unemployed back to work, to prevent additional losses in employment, and to create new directions in the Auto and Energy Industries. Once we get money back into the consumers hands, (eg the middle class), and relax fears over a possible economic collapse, and give some time for the housing industry to work out its problems due to overbuilding, credit policies will relax and the economy will begin to grow. Then we can look at putting legislation in place to deal with chronic deficit spending feeding an ever growing huge national debt. It's going to take some time and there will be some bumps in the road, but current conditions will eventually reverse. So, the short term plan is to deal with the economic recession, and when the economy reverses, the long term plan includes dealing with deficit spending and a growing national debt. Regards, LelandJ John wrote: > < Countrywide Financial was a chain of 200 or 300 saving and loan companies, > sometime called thrift institutions, located in California and Nevada. > Countrywide was one of the first mortgage companies to get in trouble > writing risky mortgages, including ARMs, (eg adjustable rate mortgages), > which provided options where the borrower could elect to make payments on > the principal only or even make payments that didn't even cover the monthly > principle, but with a provision that would reset the mortgage at least once > every five year to the going interest rate and a payment that would amortize > the debt. When the interest rate time bombs started going off, Countrywide > found itself facing bankruptcy, but was eventually merge with Bank of > America, who probably held most of Countrywide's credit default swaps, so > the big banks that were heavy into derivatives like CDS ended up holding the > bag. Now its just a matter of getting people into the houses so the big > banks can retire the old mortgages in default with new mortgages that are > performing on the underlying real estate collateral.> > > All this was predicated upon the fannie mae and Freddie mac debacle. It is > my understanding that the dems pushed through legislation that forced > lending institutions to make loans to people (particularly minorities) who > could not afford them. I fault the dems for that, and for not reigning in > fannie and Freddie. The repubs had majorities in both houses, but decided to > fatten themselves, instead of taking care of business, so they get a piece > of blame on this too. Bush and the congress have grown the size of > government and the cost. In Bush's defense, he did have a war that drove the > cost up, but he never said much about what congress was doing either. > There's enough blame to go around. > > The big issue is what is Obama going to do about it. All indications are > that he is going to continue to grow government and spending will increase > even more. It doesn't look good. Maybe gold is the best thing to invest in, > given the dismal outlook > > John Harvey > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
< Countrywide Financial was a chain of 200 or 300 saving and loan companies, sometime called thrift institutions, located in California and Nevada. Countrywide was one of the first mortgage companies to get in trouble writing risky mortgages, including ARMs, (eg adjustable rate mortgages), which provided options where the borrower could elect to make payments on the principal only or even make payments that didn't even cover the monthly principle, but with a provision that would reset the mortgage at least once every five year to the going interest rate and a payment that would amortize the debt. When the interest rate time bombs started going off, Countrywide found itself facing bankruptcy, but was eventually merge with Bank of America, who probably held most of Countrywide's credit default swaps, so the big banks that were heavy into derivatives like CDS ended up holding the bag. Now its just a matter of getting people into the houses so the big banks can retire the old mortgages in default with new mortgages that are performing on the underlying real estate collateral.> All this was predicated upon the fannie mae and Freddie mac debacle. It is my understanding that the dems pushed through legislation that forced lending institutions to make loans to people (particularly minorities) who could not afford them. I fault the dems for that, and for not reigning in fannie and Freddie. The repubs had majorities in both houses, but decided to fatten themselves, instead of taking care of business, so they get a piece of blame on this too. Bush and the congress have grown the size of government and the cost. In Bush's defense, he did have a war that drove the cost up, but he never said much about what congress was doing either. There's enough blame to go around. The big issue is what is Obama going to do about it. All indications are that he is going to continue to grow government and spending will increase even more. It doesn't look good. Maybe gold is the best thing to invest in, given the dismal outlook John Harvey ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED]@shelbynet.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
There was no other option. Gore? . . . please! Kerry? ... double please! John Harvey -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leland Jackson Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:32 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. Perhaps it is the American people, including you, who are to blame for having been duped into electing George W. Bush as president for two terms. Regards, LelandJ John wrote: > He is so stupid, he beat the dems twice. What does that say about them? > > John Harvey > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Geoff Flight > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:14 PM > To: 'ProFox Email List' > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > > I like it... You've had some good presidents and some ho-hum ones but it's > been a long time since you had a genuinely stupid one. Bush strikes me as > not only stupid but fairly devoid of wisdom and ethics. He will NOT be > missed. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Kristyne McDaniel > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:38 AM > To: 'ProFox Email List' > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > > Geoff, > > >> So what level do you blame Bush for this? >> > > That's difficult. How do you blame a moron for acting like a moron? > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED]@shelbynet.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Perhaps it is the American people, including you, who are to blame for having been duped into electing George W. Bush as president for two terms. Regards, LelandJ John wrote: > He is so stupid, he beat the dems twice. What does that say about them? > > John Harvey > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Geoff Flight > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:14 PM > To: 'ProFox Email List' > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > > I like it... You've had some good presidents and some ho-hum ones but it's > been a long time since you had a genuinely stupid one. Bush strikes me as > not only stupid but fairly devoid of wisdom and ethics. He will NOT be > missed. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Kristyne McDaniel > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:38 AM > To: 'ProFox Email List' > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > > Geoff, > > >> So what level do you blame Bush for this? >> > > That's difficult. How do you blame a moron for acting like a moron? > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
ike > > > --- On Wed, 11/26/08, John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> From: John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. >> To: "'ProFox Email List'" >> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:47 PM >> You obviously didn't hear about the Republicans, in >> 2006, including John >> McCain, who said Freddie mac and fannie mae needed more >> overight. Meanwhile, >> Obama's buddies were raping the system, and Barney >> Frank was defending >> them >> >> John Harvey >> >> >> -----Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >> Of Geoff Flight >> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:38 PM >> To: 'ProFox Email List' >> Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE >> bottom. >> >> Economists have been saying for 2 years that a severe crash >> and recession >> were I imminent because of the financial house of cards >> that had been built. >> Obama was right in what he said. >> >> I just don't understand how you can seriously shift the >> blame for economic >> disaster to a CANDIDATE while excluding an 8year >> presidency. Doesn't any >> part of that sound just a little bit silly? >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >> Of Michael Madigan >> Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:00 AM >> To: ProFox Email List >> Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE >> bottom. >> >> For two years Obama's campaign has been saying over and >> over again that the >> economy was the worst since the Great Depression. >> >> OF course that was a lie. 6% unemployment and possitive >> growth does not >> make a depression. >> >> So of course people bailed when the market started to >> crash. After all, it >> was the Great Depression, right? >> >> >> >> * >> Barack Obama is not My President >> http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike >> >> >> --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Geoff Flight >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >>> From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit >>> >> THE bottom. >> >>> To: "'ProFox Email List'" >>> >> >> >>> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:17 PM >>> The truly odd thing about markets is that they are >>> >> drive as >> >>> much my >>> psychology as about fundamentals. That is why a >>> >> president >> >>> or Prime Minister >>> talking negatively about an economy actually drives it >>> >> down >> >>> and vice versa. >>> Same applies to well known economists etc. For reasons >>> I've never >>> understood, investors place great stock in the >>> >> opinions of >> >>> people who >>> sometimes have zero idea about what is happening. Half >>> >> of >> >>> this loss is about >>> confidence - not fundamentals. The markets are rising >>> >> and >> >>> falling in mammoth >>> swings on rumours and hints of rumours. Until that >>> >> ends and >> >>> people actually >>> use their heads and not their fears, true recovery >>> >> cannot >> >>> start. The markets >>> are one of the areas of life where optimism (like >>> pessimism) can be >>> self-fulfilling. >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >>> Of Kristyne McDaniel >>> Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 8:33 AM >>> To: 'ProFox Email List' >>> Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit >>> >> THE >> >>> bottom. >>> >>> Madigan, >>> >>> >>>> Care to explain this strange attack? >>>> >>> Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom >>> >> and >> >>> then act >>> surprised when gloom and doom happen. >>> >>> Thus far, with Obama not even in office yet, the >>> >> markets >> >>> are quieting down >>> as he reveals the new folks that will be replacing >>> >> Bush >> >>> ineptitude. >>> >>> Kristyne McDaniel >>> http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog >>> http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ >>> http://www.mcstyles.com/ >>> >>> Whether you think you can, or you think you >>> >> can't >> >>> you are right. >>> -- Henry Ford >>> >>> >>> >>> [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > Madigan, > >> Care to explain this strange attack? > > Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom and then act > surprised when gloom and doom happen. > > Thus far, with Obama not even in office yet, the markets are quieting down > as he reveals the new folks that will be replacing Bush ineptitude. Hi Kristyne! LOL Replace Bush "ineptitude" with Clinton ineptitude. I hope it doesn't result in another terrorism disaster a year into the successor's term like it did the last time. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Stallin was much more civil than you also. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 8:08 PM > Smarter? Hardly!!! Successful? When I guess Stalin was more > successful than > me too - hardly a comparison to be overly concerned about. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Michael Madigan > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 11:12 AM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > Stupid compared to who? Certainly he's far smarter and > more successful than > you are. > > I like it when foreign losers denigrate the President. > > * > Barack Obama is not My President > > http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike > > > --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Geoff Flight > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit > THE bottom. > > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > > > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 6:14 PM > > I like it... You've had some good presidents and > some > > ho-hum ones but it's > > been a long time since you had a genuinely stupid one. > Bush > > strikes me as > > not only stupid but fairly devoid of wisdom and > ethics. He > > will NOT be > > missed. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > Of Kristyne McDaniel > > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:38 AM > > To: 'ProFox Email List' > > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit > THE > > bottom. > > > > Geoff, > > > > > So what level do you blame Bush for this? > > > > That's difficult. How do you blame a moron for > acting > > like a moron? > > > > Kristyne McDaniel > > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > > > Whether you think you can, or you think you > can't > > you are right. > > -- Henry Ford > > > > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Smarter? Hardly!!! Successful? When I guess Stalin was more successful than me too - hardly a comparison to be overly concerned about. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 11:12 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. Stupid compared to who? Certainly he's far smarter and more successful than you are. I like it when foreign losers denigrate the President. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 6:14 PM > I like it... You've had some good presidents and some > ho-hum ones but it's > been a long time since you had a genuinely stupid one. Bush > strikes me as > not only stupid but fairly devoid of wisdom and ethics. He > will NOT be > missed. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Kristyne McDaniel > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:38 AM > To: 'ProFox Email List' > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > Geoff, > > > So what level do you blame Bush for this? > > That's difficult. How do you blame a moron for acting > like a moron? > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
The elections were stolen, doncha know? LOL * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 6:25 PM > He is so stupid, he beat the dems twice. What does that say > about them? > > John Harvey > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Geoff Flight > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:14 PM > To: 'ProFox Email List' > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > I like it... You've had some good presidents and some > ho-hum ones but it's > been a long time since you had a genuinely stupid one. Bush > strikes me as > not only stupid but fairly devoid of wisdom and ethics. He > will NOT be > missed. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Kristyne McDaniel > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:38 AM > To: 'ProFox Email List' > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > Geoff, > > > So what level do you blame Bush for this? > > That's difficult. How do you blame a moron for acting > like a moron? > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Stupid compared to who? Certainly he's far smarter and more successful than you are. I like it when foreign losers denigrate the President. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 6:14 PM > I like it... You've had some good presidents and some > ho-hum ones but it's > been a long time since you had a genuinely stupid one. Bush > strikes me as > not only stupid but fairly devoid of wisdom and ethics. He > will NOT be > missed. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Kristyne McDaniel > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:38 AM > To: 'ProFox Email List' > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > Geoff, > > > So what level do you blame Bush for this? > > That's difficult. How do you blame a moron for acting > like a moron? > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
We blame him for not putting the same emphasis on getting rid of corrupt Fannie Mae officials as he did with the war on Iraq. He should have called out Chris Dodd and Barney Frank months before the crash. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 6:01 PM > So what level do you blame Bush for this? > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Michael Madigan > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:28 AM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > Sure. The economy has actually sucked really bad since > Reagan, we would > have been better off with Carter. LMAO > > * > Barack Obama is not My President > > http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike > > > --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Kristyne McDaniel > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit > THE bottom. > > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > > > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:52 PM > > Geoff, > > > > > I just don't understand how you can seriously > > shift the > > > blame for economic disaster to a CANDIDATE while > > > excluding an 8year presidency. Doesn't any > part of > > that > > > sound just a little bit silly? > > > > You need to understand that the only way the right has > been > > able to keep the > > illusion of 'success' for trickle-down > economics in > > their minds is to > > declare it to be true with no data to support the > > 'truth', while at the same > > time denying any evidence to the contrary. > > > > It is the same way that fundamentalists deal with > > evolution. They simply > > deny it and refuse to listen to any evidence to the > > contrary. > > > > Data-free analysis... The hallmark of an ideologue. > > > > Kristyne McDaniel > > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > > > Whether you think you can, or you think you > can't > > you are right. > > -- Henry Ford > > > > > > > > ___ > > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > > Subscription Maintenance: > > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > > OT-free version of this list: > > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > > Searchable Archive: > http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > > This message: > > > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > tyneMB > > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, > are > > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute > legal or > > medical advice. This statement is added to the > messages for > > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
I blame the democrats for the failure of the housing market, due to giving money to people who couldn't afford the loan, and the republicans for not raising hell about it. John Harvey -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Flight Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:01 PM To: 'ProFox Email List' Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. So what level do you blame Bush for this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:28 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. Sure. The economy has actually sucked really bad since Reagan, we would have been better off with Carter. LMAO * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:52 PM > Geoff, > > > I just don't understand how you can seriously > shift the > > blame for economic disaster to a CANDIDATE while > > excluding an 8year presidency. Doesn't any part of > that > > sound just a little bit silly? > > You need to understand that the only way the right has been > able to keep the > illusion of 'success' for trickle-down economics in > their minds is to > declare it to be true with no data to support the > 'truth', while at the same > time denying any evidence to the contrary. > > It is the same way that fundamentalists deal with > evolution. They simply > deny it and refuse to listen to any evidence to the > contrary. > > Data-free analysis... The hallmark of an ideologue. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] tyneMB > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED]@shelbynet.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
I think they all have contributed. The bailout is bipartisan insanity! John Harvey -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Leafe Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:04 PM To: ProFox Email List Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. On Nov 26, 2008, at 4:47 PM, John wrote: > You obviously didn't hear about the Republicans, in 2006, including > John > McCain, who said Freddie mac and fannie mae needed more overight. > Meanwhile, > Obama's buddies were raping the system, and Barney Frank was defending > them ...and then wise Senator McCain chooses Phil Gramm as his chief economic advisor. For those who don't know Gramm, during his time in the Senate he was responsible for dismantling nearly all of the bank and credit market regulations put in place since the 1930s to prevent a repeat of the financial events that were the major cause of the Great Depression. Even as late as last week he still holds that that was the right thing to do, and thought the only problem was that we hadn't removed all oversight. -- Ed Leafe [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED]@shelbynet.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
He is so stupid, he beat the dems twice. What does that say about them? John Harvey -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Flight Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:14 PM To: 'ProFox Email List' Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. I like it... You've had some good presidents and some ho-hum ones but it's been a long time since you had a genuinely stupid one. Bush strikes me as not only stupid but fairly devoid of wisdom and ethics. He will NOT be missed. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kristyne McDaniel Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:38 AM To: 'ProFox Email List' Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. Geoff, > So what level do you blame Bush for this? That's difficult. How do you blame a moron for acting like a moron? Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED]@shelbynet.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
I like it... You've had some good presidents and some ho-hum ones but it's been a long time since you had a genuinely stupid one. Bush strikes me as not only stupid but fairly devoid of wisdom and ethics. He will NOT be missed. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kristyne McDaniel Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:38 AM To: 'ProFox Email List' Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. Geoff, > So what level do you blame Bush for this? That's difficult. How do you blame a moron for acting like a moron? Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Geoff, > So what level do you blame Bush for this? That's difficult. How do you blame a moron for acting like a moron? Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
On Nov 26, 2008, at 4:47 PM, John wrote: > You obviously didn't hear about the Republicans, in 2006, including > John > McCain, who said Freddie mac and fannie mae needed more overight. > Meanwhile, > Obama's buddies were raping the system, and Barney Frank was defending > them ...and then wise Senator McCain chooses Phil Gramm as his chief economic advisor. For those who don't know Gramm, during his time in the Senate he was responsible for dismantling nearly all of the bank and credit market regulations put in place since the 1930s to prevent a repeat of the financial events that were the major cause of the Great Depression. Even as late as last week he still holds that that was the right thing to do, and thought the only problem was that we hadn't removed all oversight. -- Ed Leafe ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
So what level do you blame Bush for this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:28 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. Sure. The economy has actually sucked really bad since Reagan, we would have been better off with Carter. LMAO * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:52 PM > Geoff, > > > I just don't understand how you can seriously > shift the > > blame for economic disaster to a CANDIDATE while > > excluding an 8year presidency. Doesn't any part of > that > > sound just a little bit silly? > > You need to understand that the only way the right has been > able to keep the > illusion of 'success' for trickle-down economics in > their minds is to > declare it to be true with no data to support the > 'truth', while at the same > time denying any evidence to the contrary. > > It is the same way that fundamentalists deal with > evolution. They simply > deny it and refuse to listen to any evidence to the > contrary. > > Data-free analysis... The hallmark of an ideologue. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] tyneMB > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Sure. The economy has actually sucked really bad since Reagan, we would have been better off with Carter. LMAO * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:52 PM > Geoff, > > > I just don't understand how you can seriously > shift the > > blame for economic disaster to a CANDIDATE while > > excluding an 8year presidency. Doesn't any part of > that > > sound just a little bit silly? > > You need to understand that the only way the right has been > able to keep the > illusion of 'success' for trickle-down economics in > their minds is to > declare it to be true with no data to support the > 'truth', while at the same > time denying any evidence to the contrary. > > It is the same way that fundamentalists deal with > evolution. They simply > deny it and refuse to listen to any evidence to the > contrary. > > Data-free analysis... The hallmark of an ideologue. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
The economy was built on a house of cards. Lending to those who couldn't even begin to repay. Unbelievably corrupt and incompetent lending practices. Almost utter lack of regulation which Bush still supports even now. To blame Obama is silly and demonstrates your utter lack of understanding about what is actually going on. You want to know how to avoid such disaster in the future? Take a look at Australia. We have the best economy in the world. Of the 18 most secure international banks in the world we have 4. (we only have 4 international banks!) we have strong growth, running a surplus and unemployment that was under 4%. No govt debt. Wanna learn how to run an economy right? Look downunder. In a year's time the difference wil be even more apparent. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:20 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. I blame the Obama campaign for spreading fear to the uninformed. Only a retard believes the economy is the worst since the Great Depression. The early 80s had 17% interest rates and 10% unemployement. And nobody in the 80s called it a depression. But if this idiot raises taxes now, then we can see a depression. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:37 PM > Economists have been saying for 2 years that a severe crash > and recession > were I imminent because of the financial house of cards > that had been built. > Obama was right in what he said. > > I just don't understand how you can seriously shift the > blame for economic > disaster to a CANDIDATE while excluding an 8year > presidency. Doesn't any > part of that sound just a little bit silly? > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Michael Madigan > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:00 AM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > For two years Obama's campaign has been saying over and > over again that the > economy was the worst since the Great Depression. > > OF course that was a lie. 6% unemployment and possitive > growth does not > make a depression. > > So of course people bailed when the market started to > crash. After all, it > was the Great Depression, right? > > > > * > Barack Obama is not My President > http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike > > > --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Geoff Flight > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit > THE bottom. > > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > > > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:17 PM > > The truly odd thing about markets is that they are > drive as > > much my > > psychology as about fundamentals. That is why a > president > > or Prime Minister > > talking negatively about an economy actually drives it > down > > and vice versa. > > Same applies to well known economists etc. For reasons > > I've never > > understood, investors place great stock in the > opinions of > > people who > > sometimes have zero idea about what is happening. Half > of > > this loss is about > > confidence - not fundamentals. The markets are rising > and > > falling in mammoth > > swings on rumours and hints of rumours. Until that > ends and > > people actually > > use their heads and not their fears, true recovery > cannot > > start. The markets > > are one of the areas of life where optimism (like > > pessimism) can be > > self-fulfilling. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > Of Kristyne McDaniel > > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 8:33 AM > > To: 'ProFox Email List' > > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit > THE > > bottom. > > > > Madigan, > > > > > Care to explain this strange attack? > > > > Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom > and > > then act > > surprised when gloom and doom happen. > > > > Thus far, with
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Geoff, > I just don't understand how you can seriously shift the > blame for economic disaster to a CANDIDATE while > excluding an 8year presidency. Doesn't any part of that > sound just a little bit silly? You need to understand that the only way the right has been able to keep the illusion of 'success' for trickle-down economics in their minds is to declare it to be true with no data to support the 'truth', while at the same time denying any evidence to the contrary. It is the same way that fundamentalists deal with evolution. They simply deny it and refuse to listen to any evidence to the contrary. Data-free analysis... The hallmark of an ideologue. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Let's not forget that Barney Frank's butt buddy was a bigshot at Fannie Mae. He was screwing him while the public was being screwed. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:47 PM > You obviously didn't hear about the Republicans, in > 2006, including John > McCain, who said Freddie mac and fannie mae needed more > overight. Meanwhile, > Obama's buddies were raping the system, and Barney > Frank was defending > them > > John Harvey > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Geoff Flight > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:38 PM > To: 'ProFox Email List' > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > Economists have been saying for 2 years that a severe crash > and recession > were I imminent because of the financial house of cards > that had been built. > Obama was right in what he said. > > I just don't understand how you can seriously shift the > blame for economic > disaster to a CANDIDATE while excluding an 8year > presidency. Doesn't any > part of that sound just a little bit silly? > > -Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Michael Madigan > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:00 AM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > For two years Obama's campaign has been saying over and > over again that the > economy was the worst since the Great Depression. > > OF course that was a lie. 6% unemployment and possitive > growth does not > make a depression. > > So of course people bailed when the market started to > crash. After all, it > was the Great Depression, right? > > > > ********************************* > Barack Obama is not My President > http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike > > > --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Geoff Flight > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit > THE bottom. > > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > > > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:17 PM > > The truly odd thing about markets is that they are > drive as > > much my > > psychology as about fundamentals. That is why a > president > > or Prime Minister > > talking negatively about an economy actually drives it > down > > and vice versa. > > Same applies to well known economists etc. For reasons > > I've never > > understood, investors place great stock in the > opinions of > > people who > > sometimes have zero idea about what is happening. Half > of > > this loss is about > > confidence - not fundamentals. The markets are rising > and > > falling in mammoth > > swings on rumours and hints of rumours. Until that > ends and > > people actually > > use their heads and not their fears, true recovery > cannot > > start. The markets > > are one of the areas of life where optimism (like > > pessimism) can be > > self-fulfilling. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > Of Kristyne McDaniel > > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 8:33 AM > > To: 'ProFox Email List' > > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit > THE > > bottom. > > > > Madigan, > > > > > Care to explain this strange attack? > > > > Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom > and > > then act > > surprised when gloom and doom happen. > > > > Thus far, with Obama not even in office yet, the > markets > > are quieting down > > as he reveals the new folks that will be replacing > Bush > > ineptitude. > > > > Kristyne McDaniel > > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > > > Whether you think you can, or you think you > can't > > you are right. > > -- Henry Ford > > > > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
I blame the Obama campaign for spreading fear to the uninformed. Only a retard believes the economy is the worst since the Great Depression. The early 80s had 17% interest rates and 10% unemployement. And nobody in the 80s called it a depression. But if this idiot raises taxes now, then we can see a depression. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:37 PM > Economists have been saying for 2 years that a severe crash > and recession > were I imminent because of the financial house of cards > that had been built. > Obama was right in what he said. > > I just don't understand how you can seriously shift the > blame for economic > disaster to a CANDIDATE while excluding an 8year > presidency. Doesn't any > part of that sound just a little bit silly? > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Michael Madigan > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:00 AM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > For two years Obama's campaign has been saying over and > over again that the > economy was the worst since the Great Depression. > > OF course that was a lie. 6% unemployment and possitive > growth does not > make a depression. > > So of course people bailed when the market started to > crash. After all, it > was the Great Depression, right? > > > > * > Barack Obama is not My President > http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike > > > --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Geoff Flight > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit > THE bottom. > > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > > > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:17 PM > > The truly odd thing about markets is that they are > drive as > > much my > > psychology as about fundamentals. That is why a > president > > or Prime Minister > > talking negatively about an economy actually drives it > down > > and vice versa. > > Same applies to well known economists etc. For reasons > > I've never > > understood, investors place great stock in the > opinions of > > people who > > sometimes have zero idea about what is happening. Half > of > > this loss is about > > confidence - not fundamentals. The markets are rising > and > > falling in mammoth > > swings on rumours and hints of rumours. Until that > ends and > > people actually > > use their heads and not their fears, true recovery > cannot > > start. The markets > > are one of the areas of life where optimism (like > > pessimism) can be > > self-fulfilling. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > Of Kristyne McDaniel > > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 8:33 AM > > To: 'ProFox Email List' > > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit > THE > > bottom. > > > > Madigan, > > > > > Care to explain this strange attack? > > > > Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom > and > > then act > > surprised when gloom and doom happen. > > > > Thus far, with Obama not even in office yet, the > markets > > are quieting down > > as he reveals the new folks that will be replacing > Bush > > ineptitude. > > > > Kristyne McDaniel > > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > > > Whether you think you can, or you think you > can't > > you are right. > > -- Henry Ford > > > > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
You obviously didn't hear about the Republicans, in 2006, including John McCain, who said Freddie mac and fannie mae needed more overight. Meanwhile, Obama's buddies were raping the system, and Barney Frank was defending them John Harvey -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Flight Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:38 PM To: 'ProFox Email List' Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. Economists have been saying for 2 years that a severe crash and recession were I imminent because of the financial house of cards that had been built. Obama was right in what he said. I just don't understand how you can seriously shift the blame for economic disaster to a CANDIDATE while excluding an 8year presidency. Doesn't any part of that sound just a little bit silly? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:00 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. For two years Obama's campaign has been saying over and over again that the economy was the worst since the Great Depression. OF course that was a lie. 6% unemployment and possitive growth does not make a depression. So of course people bailed when the market started to crash. After all, it was the Great Depression, right? * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:17 PM > The truly odd thing about markets is that they are drive as > much my > psychology as about fundamentals. That is why a president > or Prime Minister > talking negatively about an economy actually drives it down > and vice versa. > Same applies to well known economists etc. For reasons > I've never > understood, investors place great stock in the opinions of > people who > sometimes have zero idea about what is happening. Half of > this loss is about > confidence - not fundamentals. The markets are rising and > falling in mammoth > swings on rumours and hints of rumours. Until that ends and > people actually > use their heads and not their fears, true recovery cannot > start. The markets > are one of the areas of life where optimism (like > pessimism) can be > self-fulfilling. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Kristyne McDaniel > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 8:33 AM > To: 'ProFox Email List' > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > Madigan, > > > Care to explain this strange attack? > > Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom and > then act > surprised when gloom and doom happen. > > Thus far, with Obama not even in office yet, the markets > are quieting down > as he reveals the new folks that will be replacing Bush > ineptitude. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED]@shelbynet.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Economists have been saying for 2 years that a severe crash and recession were I imminent because of the financial house of cards that had been built. Obama was right in what he said. I just don't understand how you can seriously shift the blame for economic disaster to a CANDIDATE while excluding an 8year presidency. Doesn't any part of that sound just a little bit silly? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 9:00 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. For two years Obama's campaign has been saying over and over again that the economy was the worst since the Great Depression. OF course that was a lie. 6% unemployment and possitive growth does not make a depression. So of course people bailed when the market started to crash. After all, it was the Great Depression, right? * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:17 PM > The truly odd thing about markets is that they are drive as > much my > psychology as about fundamentals. That is why a president > or Prime Minister > talking negatively about an economy actually drives it down > and vice versa. > Same applies to well known economists etc. For reasons > I've never > understood, investors place great stock in the opinions of > people who > sometimes have zero idea about what is happening. Half of > this loss is about > confidence - not fundamentals. The markets are rising and > falling in mammoth > swings on rumours and hints of rumours. Until that ends and > people actually > use their heads and not their fears, true recovery cannot > start. The markets > are one of the areas of life where optimism (like > pessimism) can be > self-fulfilling. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Kristyne McDaniel > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 8:33 AM > To: 'ProFox Email List' > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > Madigan, > > > Care to explain this strange attack? > > Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom and > then act > surprised when gloom and doom happen. > > Thus far, with Obama not even in office yet, the markets > are quieting down > as he reveals the new folks that will be replacing Bush > ineptitude. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
The economy is bad, we've only got 94.5% of the people working! The depression had 25% out of work, we have a ways to go yet John Harvey -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Flight Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:21 PM To: 'ProFox Email List' Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. The economy in the US IS the worst since the depression. The markets starting falling year ago. You are the only personI know who is blaming Obama for the financial crisis. Not surprising, since it is utterly ludicrous. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 8:47 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. I wasn't screaming doom and gloom, that was the Obama campaign who told us for 2 years how the economy was the worst since the Great Depression. That's why knuckleheads like you voted for him. Now that he's elected and the market tanked further, you suddenly don't like gloom and doom talk anymore. Suddenly the sun is shining and angels are singing. Can you behave any sillier? * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:02 PM > Madigan, > > > Care to explain this strange attack? > > Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom and > then act > surprised when gloom and doom happen. > > Thus far, with Obama not even in office yet, the markets > are quieting down > as he reveals the new folks that will be replacing Bush > ineptitude. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] tyneMB > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED]@shelbynet.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
What rubbish. You can't have a depression when only 6% are unemployed. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:21 PM > The economy in the US IS the worst since the depression. The > markets > starting falling year ago. You are the only personI know > who is blaming > Obama for the financial crisis. Not surprising, since it is > utterly > ludicrous. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Michael Madigan > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 8:47 AM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > I wasn't screaming doom and gloom, that was the Obama > campaign who told us > for 2 years how the economy was the worst since the Great > Depression. > > That's why knuckleheads like you voted for him. > > Now that he's elected and the market tanked further, > you suddenly don't like > gloom and doom talk anymore. Suddenly the sun is shining > and angels are > singing. Can you behave any sillier? > > * > Barack Obama is not My President > > http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike > > > --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Kristyne McDaniel > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit > THE bottom. > > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > > > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:02 PM > > Madigan, > > > > > Care to explain this strange attack? > > > > Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom > and > > then act > > surprised when gloom and doom happen. > > > > Thus far, with Obama not even in office yet, the > markets > > are quieting down > > as he reveals the new folks that will be replacing > Bush > > ineptitude. > > > > Kristyne McDaniel > > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > > > Whether you think you can, or you think you > can't > > you are right. > > -- Henry Ford > > > > > > > > ___ > > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > > Subscription Maintenance: > > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > > OT-free version of this list: > > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > > Searchable Archive: > http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > > This message: > > > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > tyneMB > > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, > are > > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute > legal or > > medical advice. This statement is added to the > messages for > > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
IN Australia they have dropped about 40%. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Hill Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 8:56 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The economy in the US IS the worst since the depression. The markets > starting falling year ago. You are the only personI know who is blaming > Obama for the financial crisis. Not surprising, since it is utterly > ludicrous. It's not just the US, most of the worlds markets have been tumbling. -- Paul [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
For two years Obama's campaign has been saying over and over again that the economy was the worst since the Great Depression. OF course that was a lie. 6% unemployment and possitive growth does not make a depression. So of course people bailed when the market started to crash. After all, it was the Great Depression, right? * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:17 PM > The truly odd thing about markets is that they are drive as > much my > psychology as about fundamentals. That is why a president > or Prime Minister > talking negatively about an economy actually drives it down > and vice versa. > Same applies to well known economists etc. For reasons > I've never > understood, investors place great stock in the opinions of > people who > sometimes have zero idea about what is happening. Half of > this loss is about > confidence - not fundamentals. The markets are rising and > falling in mammoth > swings on rumours and hints of rumours. Until that ends and > people actually > use their heads and not their fears, true recovery cannot > start. The markets > are one of the areas of life where optimism (like > pessimism) can be > self-fulfilling. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Kristyne McDaniel > Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 8:33 AM > To: 'ProFox Email List' > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. > > Madigan, > > > Care to explain this strange attack? > > Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom and > then act > surprised when gloom and doom happen. > > Thus far, with Obama not even in office yet, the markets > are quieting down > as he reveals the new folks that will be replacing Bush > ineptitude. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Geoff Flight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The economy in the US IS the worst since the depression. The markets > starting falling year ago. You are the only personI know who is blaming > Obama for the financial crisis. Not surprising, since it is utterly > ludicrous. It's not just the US, most of the worlds markets have been tumbling. -- Paul ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
The economy in the US IS the worst since the depression. The markets starting falling year ago. You are the only personI know who is blaming Obama for the financial crisis. Not surprising, since it is utterly ludicrous. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 8:47 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. I wasn't screaming doom and gloom, that was the Obama campaign who told us for 2 years how the economy was the worst since the Great Depression. That's why knuckleheads like you voted for him. Now that he's elected and the market tanked further, you suddenly don't like gloom and doom talk anymore. Suddenly the sun is shining and angels are singing. Can you behave any sillier? * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:02 PM > Madigan, > > > Care to explain this strange attack? > > Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom and > then act > surprised when gloom and doom happen. > > Thus far, with Obama not even in office yet, the markets > are quieting down > as he reveals the new folks that will be replacing Bush > ineptitude. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] tyneMB > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
The truly odd thing about markets is that they are drive as much my psychology as about fundamentals. That is why a president or Prime Minister talking negatively about an economy actually drives it down and vice versa. Same applies to well known economists etc. For reasons I've never understood, investors place great stock in the opinions of people who sometimes have zero idea about what is happening. Half of this loss is about confidence - not fundamentals. The markets are rising and falling in mammoth swings on rumours and hints of rumours. Until that ends and people actually use their heads and not their fears, true recovery cannot start. The markets are one of the areas of life where optimism (like pessimism) can be self-fulfilling. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kristyne McDaniel Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 8:33 AM To: 'ProFox Email List' Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. Madigan, > Care to explain this strange attack? Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom and then act surprised when gloom and doom happen. Thus far, with Obama not even in office yet, the markets are quieting down as he reveals the new folks that will be replacing Bush ineptitude. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
I wasn't screaming doom and gloom, that was the Obama campaign who told us for 2 years how the economy was the worst since the Great Depression. That's why knuckleheads like you voted for him. Now that he's elected and the market tanked further, you suddenly don't like gloom and doom talk anymore. Suddenly the sun is shining and angels are singing. Can you behave any sillier? * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:02 PM > Madigan, > > > Care to explain this strange attack? > > Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom and > then act > surprised when gloom and doom happen. > > Thus far, with Obama not even in office yet, the markets > are quieting down > as he reveals the new folks that will be replacing Bush > ineptitude. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Madigan, > Care to explain this strange attack? Not much explanation needed. You scream doom and gloom and then act surprised when gloom and doom happen. Thus far, with Obama not even in office yet, the markets are quieting down as he reveals the new folks that will be replacing Bush ineptitude. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Care to explain this strange attack? * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 4:07 PM > Madigan, > > > You shouldn't try to pick bottoms, nobody can. > The mere fact > > that people are saying this is probably a bottom means > this > > isn't the bottom. > > You're not exactly the guy I'd choose as a market > advisor. Guys like you are > the reason the market went so far down in the first place. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
Madigan, > You shouldn't try to pick bottoms, nobody can. The mere fact > that people are saying this is probably a bottom means this > isn't the bottom. You're not exactly the guy I'd choose as a market advisor. Guys like you are the reason the market went so far down in the first place. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.emryldadvantage.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
You shouldn't try to pick bottoms, nobody can. The mere fact that people are saying this is probably a bottom means this isn't the bottom. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, KAM.covad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: KAM.covad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: "ProFox Email List" > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 2:09 PM > I had all my retirement funds in SPY - a S&P 500 index > EFT. I am so sure that this is a bottom that I sold > everything and bought > SSO also a S&P 500 index EFT but is leveraged so it > should go up more than SPY or mutual funds like VFINX. I > bought SSO at 24.75 > and 22.90 > > A paper loss means nothing You still have the same number > of shares. You get the dividends as long as you don't > sell and right now > the dividends are more than bank interest. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Pete Theisen" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "ProFox Email List" > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 11:39 AM > Subject: Re: [NF] How to determine if a market has hit THE > bottom. OK,maybe [OT] > > > Gil Hale wrote: > > > I dissolved everything in my IRA into cash late July > 2008, and was kicking > > myself in the ass for several weeks afterward, > thinking I was just getting > > nervous for no reason. But after a few more weeks yet > I was pretty happy > > about my decision. Sure, the returns are lower than > they had been, but I > > avoided the drop off the cliff also. A friend of mine > in SoCal told me he > > got out of his investments and went to cash in > October. I thought he still > > must have gotten tagged. "October last year, > Gil", heh-heh. All of his > > expert friends gave him all kinds of crap for being > such a chicken. They > > are apparently not crowing so loud now. > > > > Next move, Swiss Francs. I do not trust FDIC can > sustain what is coming > > down. > > Hi Gil! > > Currently, all my money is tied up in debts. Today I see > that "they" are > going to print as much money as they have to, to > "stabilize" the > markets. Hyperinflation here we come! > > I wonder if Swiss Francs will even do it? Better buy them > today. > Yesterday would have been better. > -- > Regards, > > Pete > http://pete-theisen.com/ > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
The time to buy is after the market starts to rise, say to 10,000, or at least after the market breaks through the 200 day moving average again. Sure you won't pick the bottom, but you won't get sucked any lower either. There will be lousy earnings for at least a year now and probably a lot more bad news ahead. * Barack Obama is not My President http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Ted Roche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Ted Roche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. > To: profox@leafe.com > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 1:26 PM > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Stephen Russell > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I am guessing that we are all involved with stocks and > funds. Some of > > us don't pay attention to the signs and others are > on top of them. > > That is why I put this as NF and not to be lost in the > land of OT. > > Even though it is OT? It's not Fox, it's not Tech. > We're all involved > in the weather ,too, and religion and politics and health > care issues, > but that still doesn't make the topic On-Topic, > Stephen. > > I'm a contrarian who believes that there's never > been a better time to > buy. Except for tomorrow. But that still doesn't make > it relevant to > computers. Which is why I flagged my message [OT] > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
I had all my retirement funds in SPY - a S&P 500 index EFT. I am so sure that this is a bottom that I sold everything and bought SSO also a S&P 500 index EFT but is leveraged so it should go up more than SPY or mutual funds like VFINX. I bought SSO at 24.75 and 22.90 A paper loss means nothing You still have the same number of shares. You get the dividends as long as you don't sell and right now the dividends are more than bank interest. - Original Message - From: "Pete Theisen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "ProFox Email List" Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [NF] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom. OK,maybe [OT] Gil Hale wrote: > I dissolved everything in my IRA into cash late July 2008, and was kicking > myself in the ass for several weeks afterward, thinking I was just getting > nervous for no reason. But after a few more weeks yet I was pretty happy > about my decision. Sure, the returns are lower than they had been, but I > avoided the drop off the cliff also. A friend of mine in SoCal told me he > got out of his investments and went to cash in October. I thought he still > must have gotten tagged. "October last year, Gil", heh-heh. All of his > expert friends gave him all kinds of crap for being such a chicken. They > are apparently not crowing so loud now. > > Next move, Swiss Francs. I do not trust FDIC can sustain what is coming > down. Hi Gil! Currently, all my money is tied up in debts. Today I see that "they" are going to print as much money as they have to, to "stabilize" the markets. Hyperinflation here we come! I wonder if Swiss Francs will even do it? Better buy them today. Yesterday would have been better. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] How to determine if a market has hit THE bottom.
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Stephen Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am guessing that we are all involved with stocks and funds. Some of > us don't pay attention to the signs and others are on top of them. > That is why I put this as NF and not to be lost in the land of OT. Even though it is OT? It's not Fox, it's not Tech. We're all involved in the weather ,too, and religion and politics and health care issues, but that still doesn't make the topic On-Topic, Stephen. I'm a contrarian who believes that there's never been a better time to buy. Except for tomorrow. But that still doesn't make it relevant to computers. Which is why I flagged my message [OT] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
