Hamburg Pythoneers Monthly Meeting: Wed, Apr 11
+ Hamburg Python User Group April Meeting + I am pleased to announce our next user group meeting: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 at 7:00pm Location: DDD Design GmbH, Jarrestrasse 46, 22303 Hamburg. Session highlight: Aspect-oriented programming with AOPython RSVP now at http://python.meetup.com/179/calendar/5549826/ If you're interested in learning more, please visit our website at meetup.com: http://python.meetup.com/179/ Additional links: RSS Newsfeed: feed://www.meetup.com/rss/g/python/179/new/ Group Calendar RSS: feed://python.meetup.com/179/calendar/rss/The+Hamburg+Python+User+Group/ iCal: webcal://python.meetup.com/179/calendar/ical/The+Hamburg+Python+User +Group/ + Hamburg Python User Group - Treffen im April + Ich freue mich, an dieser Stelle unser nächstes Meeting ankündigen zu dürfen: Mittwoch, 11. April 2007 um 19 Uhr Veranstaltungsort: DDD Design GmbH, Jarrestrasse 46, 22303 Hamburg. Highlight: Aspektorientierte Programmierung mit AOPython Anmeldungen werden unter http://python.meetup.com/179/calendar/5549826/ entgegengenommen. Weitere Informationen finden sich auf unserer Webseite bei meetup.com: http://python.meetup.com/179/ Weitere Links: RSS Newsfeed: feed://www.meetup.com/rss/g/python/179/new/ Gruppen Kalender RSS: feed://python.meetup.com/179/calendar/rss/The+Hamburg+Python+User+Group/ iCal: webcal://python.meetup.com/179/calendar/ical/The+Hamburg+Python+User +Group/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html
PyWeek #4 in April!
PyWeek #4 will run in the first week of April: Start: 00:00UTC Sunday 1st April Finish: 00:00UTC Sunday 8th April REGISTRATION IS OPEN Visit the PyWeek website for more information: http://pyweek.org/ THE PYWEEK CHALLENGE: - Invites all Python programmers to write a game in one week from scratch either as an individual or in a team, - Is intended to be challenging and fun, - Will hopefully increase the public body of python game tools, code and expertise, - Will let a lot of people actually finish a game, and - May inspire new projects (with ready made teams!) Entries must be developed during the challenge, and must incorporate some theme decided at the start of the challenge. The rules for the challenge are at: http://media.pyweek.org/static/rules.html Richard -- Visit the PyWeek website: http://pyweek.org/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html
Re: Python books?
On Mar 8, 7:06 pm, Tommy Nordgren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could some kind soul please recommend a few textbooks on Python 2.5 and it's class library? it's not necessary to have a 2.5 book that can introduce you to the modules of the Python Standard Library (not all modules are [or have] classes so class library perhaps is too restrictive a term). the most significant additions to the std library in 2.5 are: ctypes, sqlite3, xml.etree (ElementTree), wsgiref, cProfile altho they provide new functionality, there are plenty of existing modules in the standard library that are worth learning. the main reference guides to the standard library modules and their attributes include: Python in a Nutshell and Python Essential Reference, both in addition to the online library reference. my book, Core Python Programming, is revised to 2.5, but focuses on teaching you the core part of the language, features, objects, memory management, development, good practices, some advanced topic coverage, and presents lots of exercises. however, it is not an exhaustive guide to the standard library. to find out more about it, check out the reviews and notes on amazon as well as the book's website (see below). hope this helps! -- wesley - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Core Python Programming, Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001 http://corepython.com wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com python training and technical consulting cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca http://cyberwebconsulting.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Configuration: Apache + mod_python
On 8 Mrz., 22:23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mar 9, 12:02 am, Danilo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 8 Mrz., 12:18, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mar 8, 9:50 pm, Danilo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi there,
is it possible to create a rewrite rule to send every server-request
to the directory /py? But only if the file does not exists on the
server.
This is my mod_python section of the apache config-file.
Location /py
SetHandler python-program
PythonHandler django.core.handlers.modpython
PythonPath ['/var/www/mydomain.com/htdocs/py'] + sys.path
SetEnv DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE myapp.settings
PythonDebug Off
/Location
For the more general case of where a HTTP 404 error would otherwise be
returned, indicating that a resource could not be found, as opposed to
an actual physical file, you can just use:
ErrorDocument 404 /py
This would be simpler than using mod_rewrite. I can't remember though
whether the handler when triggered in this case can change the
response status to something other than 404.
You could use mod_rewrite if you really must, but not sure how it
would interact with virtual resources managed by some handler where no
actual file exists. To be practical you would probably want to
restrict the scope of mod_rewrite to specific contexts.
Quoting an example from very good book The Definitive Guide to Apache
mod_rewrite, you can do something similar to:
RewriteEngine On
# If its not here ...
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d
# Look here instead ...
RewriteRule ^/images/(.*) /pics/$1 [PT]
In this case it is causing lookups for images to be made in two
places, but your case wouldn't be much different.
Graham
The rewrite rule works, but now every request ist send to /py.
This is my .conf:
VirtualHost *
DocumentRoot /var/www/mydomain.com/htdocs
ServerName mydomain.com
ServerAliaswww.mydomain.com
Location /py
SetHandler python-program
PythonHandler django.core.handlers.modpython
PythonPath ['/var/www/mydomain.com/htdocs/py'] + sys.path
SetEnv DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE myapp.settings
PythonDebug Off
/Location
RewriteEngine On
# If its not here...
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d
# Look here instead...
RewriteRule (.*) /py$1 [PT]
ErrorLog /var/www/mydomain.com/logs/error.log
CustomLog /var/www/mydomain.com/logs/access.log common
/VirtualHost
Any ideas what is wrong?
I did say you would probably need to restrict the scope of the
mod_rewrite rule to a specific context. In particular, put it inside
of a Directory directive corresponding to the file system directory
where your files live. Where you have it as the moment,
REQUEST_FILENAME probably will not resolve to anything as Apache
hasn't yet matched it to the filesystem. Thus:
Directory /some/path/to/document/root
RewriteEngine On
# If its not here...
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d
# Look here instead...
RewriteRule (.*) /py$1 [PT]
/Directory
Graham
Thank you.
the RewriteCond just needs the absolute path:
RewriteEngine On
# If its not here...
RewriteCond /var/www/btsgroup.de/htdocs/%{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f
RewriteCond /var/www/btsgroup.de/htdocs/%{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d
# Look here instead...
RewriteRule (.*) /py$1 [PT]
Thanks
dan
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: merits of Lisp vs Python
Alex Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | later sold for mucho dinero) is an unabashed fan of Python; the XO | (nee One Laptop Per Child, OLPC, and once known as the $100 laptop) | uses Python as its preferred (only?-) application language, and it's | slated to be the most widely distributed Python distro if it hits even | half of its ambitious target-numbers... The exciting part to me is that the somewhat inovative user inteface is writen in Python and intended to be hacked on by the users (kids) around the world. tjr -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: catching exceptions from an except: block
Gabriel Genellina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not the *previous* exception, but the *current* one. You must be inside an except clause to use a bare raise. No, you don't have to be inside an except clause to use a bare raise. A bare 'raise' will re-raise the last exception that was active in the current scope. That applies even outside the except clauses just so long as there has been an exception within the same function: e.g. def retry(fn, *args): for attempt in range(3): try: return fn(*args) except: print retrying attempt, attempt+1 # If we get here we've had too many retries raise import random def testfn(): if random.randint(0,3): raise RuntimeError(oops) return 42 retry(testfn) retrying attempt 1 retrying attempt 2 retrying attempt 3 Traceback (most recent call last): File pyshell#24, line 1, in module retry(testfn) File pyshell#20, line 4, in retry return fn(*args) File pyshell#23, line 3, in testfn raise RuntimeError(oops) RuntimeError: oops retry(testfn) retrying attempt 1 retrying attempt 2 42 retry(testfn) 42 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: catching exceptions from an except: block
En Fri, 09 Mar 2007 04:49:59 -0300, Gerard Flanagan [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Another version: import exceptions As back in time as I could go (Python 1.5), exceptions were available as builtins... def onfailFalse(fn): def inner(*args, **kwargs): try: return fn(*args, **kwargs) except ABCException: return False return inner @onfailFalse def a(x): if x == 1: return 'function a succeeded' else: raise ABCException() There is a serious flaw on this approach, the function can't return any false value (it would be treated as a failure). -- Gabriel Genellina -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
Had a thought that's grown on me. No idea if it's original or not- too inexperienced in programming- but I guess there's no harm floating it out there. Python wins big on readability, and there's no doubt that context- dependent text formatting in IDEs (keywords, strings, comments etc) is a massive help too, therefore benefitting development and maintenance. This idea is in a similar vein, especially for when scripts grow large. What if 2 new 'special' comment-like characters were added to Python?: 1. The WIP (Work In Progress) comment: A '?' placed in the preceding whitespace of a line as a means of quickly highlighting a line or block of code for special attention. The interpreter simply ignores these characters, and executes the code as if each WIP character wasn't there. The value-added comes from how IDEs can exploit this to color the line or code block (in a customisable fashion as with other context-dependent IDE formatting). Thus... ?a=6 #This line gets highlighted. ?class MyClass: #This entire class gets highlighted. def __init__(self): self.val=3 ?def MyFn(): #This entire function gets highlighted. return 'x' ?for each in range(9): #This entire block gets highlighted. print each Simply delete the ? and the associated highlighting vanishes immediately. Indeed if the interpreter can tolerate one '?' then perhaps it can also allow '??' and '???', letting the IDE color each differently for some additional flexibility. Applications... Lets you highlight / un-highlight entire blocks with a single keystroke: to record which part of a long script you're working on, or which part needs development or optimization. IDEs could add additional functionality if they chose: options to remove all wip comments, or step through them, or even to automatically add WIP comments (to highlight syntax errors, potentially infinite loops, or rate-limiting code blocks, perhaps?) 2. The HALT comment: A '!' at the start of a line, indicating the end of the script proper. The interpreter would register this one, and ignore everything after it, a bit like a sys.exit() call but also stopping it from picking syntax errors after the HALT. IDEs could then 'grey out' (or 'yellow out' or whatever) all following characters, including later HALT comments. Applications... Lets you mask / unmask the tailing parts of a py script with a single keystroke: potentially quite useful during the writing / testing phase of coding when you might not want to run the whole thing, or as another means of adding extensive comments to the end of a file. Could also be rather handy in 'tutorial scripts' and the like... E.g... # Welcome to my Python Tutorial Script my_string=Hello World print my_string ! # Everything after this '!' is ignored and greyed out for now, but when you're ready to move on to the next part of the tutorial script just delete the '!' and run it again. my_list=list(my_string) print my_list ! # -- delete '!' when ready, etc etc my_list_reversed=my_list[::-1] print my_list_reversed As far as I can see, neither of these would break backwards compatibility and, like the @ decorator, if you don't like it, you wouldn't have to use it. I don't know enough about the guts of Python to say much about ease of implementation, but it doesn't seem like it would be too hard. Personally I'd use these a lot, but I'm a rank amateur so maybe I just don't develop code properly. That's it. Useful? Pointless? Dangerous? Stupid? Dave. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: class attrdict
Alex Martelli writes: (...) class Namespace(object): (...) I might, if it weren't for the redundant if and the horribly buggy interference between separate instances -- which is why I wrote it, almost six years ago and without the bugs, as http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Cookbook/Recipe/52308 . Nice one. I gotta dig up the Cookbook again. -- Hallvard -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: catching exceptions from an except: block
En Fri, 09 Mar 2007 05:52:35 -0300, Duncan Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Gabriel Genellina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not the *previous* exception, but the *current* one. You must be inside an except clause to use a bare raise. No, you don't have to be inside an except clause to use a bare raise. A bare 'raise' will re-raise the last exception that was active in the current scope. That applies even outside the except clauses just so long as there has been an exception within the same function: Oh! Thanks, I didn't know that. I tested it in the interpreter, outside any function, and the exception info was lost immediately, so I wrongly concluded that it lived shortly. -- Gabriel Genellina -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: class attrdict
Alex Martelli writes: You make a good point. I do like being able to say foo.bar=baz rather than foo['bar']=baz in certain cases -- not so much to save 3 chars, but to avoid excessive punctuation; however, I don't really need this AND all of dict's power at the same time, so, I don't inherit from dict:-). Yes. Attribute syntax looks nicer, in particular one implements a sort of private variables collected in a dict thing (e.g. SQL field names) but still wants some dict functionality. Another variant I thought of would be to prefix dict methods with '_' (except those that already start with '__') and (if implemented as a dict subtype) also override the original names with a sorry, use _foo error method. (Posting a bit sporatically currently, disappearing for a week again now.) -- Hallvard -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python not processing .pth files
This one I do not understand -- does anyone have any suggestions? Newly compiled untweaked Python2.5 is not processing .pth files (as far as I can see _any_ .pth files in site-packages. Example:. +++ [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages$ ls setup* -rw-r--r-- 1 root staff 306K Mar 8 20:44 setuptools-0.6c3-py2.5.egg -rw-rw-rw- 1 root staff 29 Mar 8 23:57 setuptools.pth [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages$ cat setuptools.pth ./setuptools-0.6c3-py2.5.egg [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages$ python2.5 Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Mar 8 2007, 22:34:54) [GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-13)] on linux2 Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information. import setuptools Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in module ImportError: No module named setuptools import sys sys.path ['', '/usr/local/lib/python25.zip', '/usr/local/lib/python2.5', '/usr/ local/lib/python2.5/plat-linux2', '/usr/local/lib/python2.5/lib-tk', '/ usr/local/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload', '/usr/local/lib/python2.5/site- packages'] + -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Pb with descriptor and super ...
Hi all, I have a problem with the use of descriptors and super. The file is : # --- class Desc(object): def __init__(self, class_name): self.class_name = class_name return def __get__(self, obj, typ): print Desc.__get__ : class_name is %s, obj is %s and typ is %s%(self.class_name, obj, typ) return pass class A(object): attr = Desc(A) pass class B(A): attr = Desc(B) pass b = B() print --- print Getting b.attr ... print I hope that : class_name is B, obj is b and typ is B b.attr print --- print Getting super(B, b).attr ... print I hope that : class_name is A, obj is b and typ is A but it is not the case ! super(B, b).attr print --- # --- and the result is : --- Getting b.attr ... I hope that : class_name is B, obj is b and typ is B Desc.__get__ : class_name is B, obj is __main__.B object at 0xb7b1f8ec and typ is class '__main__.B' --- Getting super(B, b).attr ... I hope that : class_name is A, obj is b and typ is A but it is not the case ! Desc.__get__ : class_name is A, obj is __main__.B object at 0xb7b1f8ec and typ is class '__main__.B' --- I expected that when getting super(B, b).attr, typ is A, but it is not the case ... python used : [EMAIL PROTECTED] /home/adam/Work/Python] python Python 2.4.3 (#2, Sep 18 2006, 21:07:35) [GCC 4.1.1 20060724 (prerelease) (4.1.1-3mdk)] on linux2 Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information. Best regards, E.A. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python books?
Have a look at: Core python programming from Wesley J. Chun printed by Prentice Hall. Ralf Schoenian -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
En Fri, 09 Mar 2007 06:14:46 -0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: A '?' placed in the preceding whitespace of a line as a means of quickly highlighting a line or block of code for special attention. The interpreter simply ignores these characters, and executes the code as if each WIP character wasn't there. The value-added comes from how IDEs can exploit this to color the line or code block (in a customisable fashion as with other context-dependent IDE formatting). This could be implemented without new syntax: just make your editor recognize some special comments, and apply the highlighting to the following block. By example, # XXX Remove this when FuruFaifa is fixed to always provide # XXX the names in the same order names.sort() names.reverse() if names==oldnames: ... would highlight the first 4 lines (let's say, up to the next blank line or dedent). 2. The HALT comment: A '!' at the start of a line, indicating the end of the script proper. The interpreter would register this one, and ignore everything after it, a bit like a sys.exit() call but also stopping it from picking syntax errors after the HALT. IDEs could then 'grey out' (or 'yellow out' or whatever) all following characters, including later HALT comments. You accidentally type a ! somewhere, and your module stops working - not so good :( and worse, hard to find. I sometimes use '''this string marks''' to ignore whole blocks of code. It works fine unless the block already contains the same kind of triple-quoted string... As far as I can see, neither of these would break backwards compatibility and, like the @ decorator, if you don't like it, you wouldn't have to use it. I don't know enough about the guts of Python to say much about ease of implementation, but it doesn't seem like it would be too hard. The main problem with new syntax is breaking compatibility with older versions, and I doubt it's worth the pain just for highlighting or playing interactively, so you don't have a great chance of them being implemented... -- Gabriel Genellina -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Configuration: Apache + mod_python
On Mar 9, 7:09 pm, Danilo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 8 Mrz., 22:23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mar 9, 12:02 am, Danilo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 8 Mrz., 12:18, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mar 8, 9:50 pm, Danilo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi there,
is it possible to create a rewrite rule to send every server-request
to the directory /py? But only if the file does not exists on the
server.
This is mymod_pythonsection of the apache config-file.
Location /py
SetHandler python-program
PythonHandler django.core.handlers.modpython
PythonPath ['/var/www/mydomain.com/htdocs/py'] + sys.path
SetEnv DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE myapp.settings
PythonDebug Off
/Location
For the more general case of where a HTTP 404 error would otherwise be
returned, indicating that a resource could not be found, as opposed to
an actual physical file, you can just use:
ErrorDocument 404 /py
This would be simpler than using mod_rewrite. I can't remember though
whether the handler when triggered in this case can change the
response status to something other than 404.
You could use mod_rewrite if you really must, but not sure how it
would interact with virtual resources managed by some handler where no
actual file exists. To be practical you would probably want to
restrict the scope of mod_rewrite to specific contexts.
Quoting an example from very good book The Definitive Guide to Apache
mod_rewrite, you can do something similar to:
RewriteEngine On
# If its not here ...
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d
# Look here instead ...
RewriteRule ^/images/(.*) /pics/$1 [PT]
In this case it is causing lookups for images to be made in two
places, but your case wouldn't be much different.
Graham
The rewrite rule works, but now every request ist send to /py.
This is my .conf:
VirtualHost *
DocumentRoot /var/www/mydomain.com/htdocs
ServerName mydomain.com
ServerAliaswww.mydomain.com
Location /py
SetHandler python-program
PythonHandler django.core.handlers.modpython
PythonPath ['/var/www/mydomain.com/htdocs/py'] +
sys.path
SetEnv DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE myapp.settings
PythonDebug Off
/Location
RewriteEngine On
# If its not here...
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d
# Look here instead...
RewriteRule (.*) /py$1 [PT]
ErrorLog /var/www/mydomain.com/logs/error.log
CustomLog /var/www/mydomain.com/logs/access.log common
/VirtualHost
Any ideas what is wrong?
I did say you would probably need to restrict the scope of the
mod_rewrite rule to a specific context. In particular, put it inside
of a Directory directive corresponding to the file system directory
where your files live. Where you have it as the moment,
REQUEST_FILENAME probably will not resolve to anything as Apache
hasn't yet matched it to the filesystem. Thus:
Directory /some/path/to/document/root
RewriteEngine On
# If its not here...
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d
# Look here instead...
RewriteRule (.*) /py$1 [PT]
/Directory
Graham
Thank you.
the RewriteCond just needs the absolute path:
RewriteEngine On
# If its not here...
RewriteCond /var/www/btsgroup.de/htdocs/%{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f
RewriteCond /var/www/btsgroup.de/htdocs/%{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d
# Look here instead...
RewriteRule (.*) /py$1 [PT]
Doing that would probably be considered bad practice. I think the
problem was I neglected to mention you would have to change your
RewriteRule to add a slash when used in Directory directive. Ie., use:
Directory /var/www/btsgroup.de/htdocs
RewriteEngine On
# If its not here...
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d
# Look here instead...
RewriteRule (.*) /py/$1 [PT]
/Directory
Note the slash after /py.
This works for me when I test it.
Graham
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if 2 new 'special' comment-like characters were added to Python?: 1. The WIP (Work In Progress) comment: I use # FIXME for this purpose or /* FIXME */ in C etc. I have an emacs macro which shows it up in bright red / yellow text so it is easy to see and the company has a system which makes a web page with a list of all the FIXMEs on. FIXME is easy to grep for, language neutral and a lot of people use something similar (eg XXX or TODO). 2. The HALT comment: You can so this with triple quotes. ''' and ''' (if you normally use for docstrings) Python just ignores strings that lie around. -- Nick Craig-Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: catching exceptions from an except: block
On Mar 9, 9:56 am, Gabriel Genellina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: En Fri, 09 Mar 2007 04:49:59 -0300, Gerard Flanagan [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Another version: import exceptions As back in time as I could go (Python 1.5), exceptions were available as builtins... I did not know that. Thanks. def onfailFalse(fn): def inner(*args, **kwargs): try: return fn(*args, **kwargs) except ABCException: return False return inner @onfailFalse def a(x): if x == 1: return 'function a succeeded' else: raise ABCException() There is a serious flaw on this approach, the function can't return any false value (it would be treated as a failure). I was teaching myself decorators more than anything, so it's not thought out to any extent, but even so I don't think it's a serious flaw, rather it would be programmer error to use @onfailFalse on a function that may return False. Don't you think? Gerard -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
Thanks for the thoughts. This could be implemented without new syntax: just make your editor recognize some special comments, and apply the highlighting to the following block. By example, # XXX Remove this when FuruFaifa is fixed to always provide # XXX the names in the same order names.sort() names.reverse() Yes I recognise that we can use existing comments for this purpose, and if I was suitably gifted I guess I could try to make the IDE recognise these 'special comments', and maybe even work out what block they're meant to apply to. Of course I'll still argue that the WIP character would be a more elegant, speedy and versatile alternative. You accidentally type a ! somewhere, and your module stops working - not so good :( and worse, hard to find. By my reckoning it would be very very easy to find. Even if the IDE wasn't greying out everything after it. And how often do you accidentally mistype a ! at the beginning of a line? I sometimes use '''this string marks''' to ignore whole blocks of code. It works fine unless the block already contains the same kind of triple-quoted string... Indeed. Moreover those quotes have to be in pairs, so it's not exactly a quick and dandy way of doing what I'd like. The main problem with new syntax is breaking compatibility with older versions... Agreed. But both characters are currently disallowed in the positions concerned, and in the proposal they're optional extras. This can't stop old scripts from working, it can only stop new scripts from working on old installations- just like any new feature. , and I doubt it's worth the pain just for highlighting or playing interactively Ah well there's the issue! , so you don't have a great chance of them being implemented... Obviously I like the idea, but I never hold out much hope that people will agree with me! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
Nick Craig-Wood a écrit : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if 2 new 'special' comment-like characters were added to Python?: 1. The WIP (Work In Progress) comment: I use # FIXME for this purpose or /* FIXME */ in C etc. I have an emacs macro which shows it up in bright red / yellow text so it is easy to see ot Care to share this macro ? /ot -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course I'll still argue that the WIP character would be a more elegant, speedy and versatile alternative. I don't think so. Those characters have no syntactical meaning and would, IMHO, make the language dirty. Regards, Björn -- BOFH excuse #73: Daemons did it -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pb with descriptor and super ...
En Fri, 09 Mar 2007 06:25:08 -0300, Erwan Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: I have a problem with the use of descriptors and super. The file is : Descriptors for super behave a bit different than for classes. See http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html#cooperation -- Gabriel Genellina -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: C++ and Python
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm considering about generating some Python Bindings for C++ libraries. What are considered the best tools for doing something like this? I know that there are SWIG, SIP, Boost.Python, and GCC_XML. Please excuse me for asking the following stupid question ... I'm planning to buy a car. What is the best brand? I know that there are Mercedes, Opel, Honda and Ford. Regards, Björn P.S.: Try this googled link and look for the comparation paragraph, in section Introduction: http://www.boost-consulting.com/writing/bpl.html -- BOFH excuse #163: no any key on keyboard -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python in a Nutshell v2.5 shortcomings (was: Python books?)
Alex Martelli wrote: I do know that the 2nd edition of Python in a Nutshell tries to do so, but falls quite a bit short on a number of important new additions to the library Which, if I may ask? Regards, Björn -- BOFH excuse #221: The mainframe needs to rest. It's getting old, you know. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
On 9 Mar 2007 02:31:14 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the thoughts. This could be implemented without new syntax: just make your editor recognize some special comments, and apply the highlighting to the following block. By example, # XXX Remove this when FuruFaifa is fixed to always provide # XXX the names in the same order names.sort() names.reverse() Yes I recognise that we can use existing comments for this purpose, and if I was suitably gifted I guess I could try to make the IDE recognise these 'special comments', and maybe even work out what block they're meant to apply to. Of course I'll still argue that the WIP character would be a more elegant, speedy and versatile alternative. But you are overloading the ? character for a purpose which it totally was not meant for. What the character means really depends on what person you are asking. To me, it means that what precedes it is something someone or something does not know and wants to know the answer to. To me, it really does not mean that what follows it is work in progress. Even if I could intuitively tell that a question mark represents a work in progress, that information is not very useful. Similarly to the under construction animated gifs that were popular on the web in the mid 90-ties, the symbol does not convey any useful information. WHY is it a work in progress? Is there something wrong with it? ?def foobar(): do stuff The question mark does not leave me any the wiser. Now if you replace that question mark with a comment: # foobar() is buggy because it throws weird exceptions when x = 42. def foobar(): do stuff That gives me some useful information. -- mvh Björn -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pb with descriptor and super ...
Erwan Adam a écrit : Hi all, I have a problem with the use of descriptors and super. The file is : # --- class Desc(object): def __init__(self, class_name): self.class_name = class_name return def __get__(self, obj, typ): print Desc.__get__ : class_name is %s, obj is %s and typ is %s%(self.class_name, obj, typ) return pass class A(object): attr = Desc(A) pass class B(A): attr = Desc(B) pass b = B() print --- print Getting b.attr ... print I hope that : class_name is B, obj is b and typ is B b.attr print --- print Getting super(B, b).attr ... print I hope that : class_name is A, obj is b and typ is A but it is not the case ! super(B, b).attr print --- # --- and the result is : --- Getting b.attr ... I hope that : class_name is B, obj is b and typ is B Desc.__get__ : class_name is B, obj is __main__.B object at 0xb7b1f8ec and typ is class '__main__.B' --- Getting super(B, b).attr ... I hope that : class_name is A, obj is b and typ is A but it is not the case ! Desc.__get__ : class_name is A, obj is __main__.B object at 0xb7b1f8ec and typ is class '__main__.B' --- I expected that when getting super(B, b).attr, typ is A, but it is not the case ... Moreover, on the page : http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm the author writes : The call super(B, obj).m() searches obj.__class__.__mro__ for the base class A immediately following B and then returns A.__dict__['m'].__get__(obj, A). which it seems not the case ... Is it a bug or a mis-understood ? Regards, E.A. python used : [EMAIL PROTECTED] /home/adam/Work/Python] python Python 2.4.3 (#2, Sep 18 2006, 21:07:35) [GCC 4.1.1 20060724 (prerelease) (4.1.1-3mdk)] on linux2 Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information. Best regards, E.A. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: catching exceptions from an except: block
En Fri, 09 Mar 2007 07:30:20 -0300, Gerard Flanagan [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: There is a serious flaw on this approach, the function can't return any false value (it would be treated as a failure). I was teaching myself decorators more than anything, so it's not thought out to any extent, but even so I don't think it's a serious flaw, rather it would be programmer error to use @onfailFalse on a function that may return False. Don't you think? I thought this was on response to the original problem, not for your own problem. -- Gabriel Genellina -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
Those characters have no syntactical meaning... ? Neither does # until you give it syntactical meaning. I must be missing what you mean. would, IMHO, make the language dirty. Well I'm not a big fan of decorators so I know how you must feel. But # FIXME + a hack doesn't seem clean to me. And commenting off the bottom half of a long script with triple quotes is ugly and a pain and you can't indicate multiple alternate halt points as in the 'tutorial script' example I gave. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
Well I'm not a big fan of decorators so I know how you must feel. But # FIXME + a hack doesn't seem clean to me. And commenting off the bottom half of a long script with triple quotes is ugly and a pain and you can't indicate multiple alternate halt points as in the 'tutorial script' example I gave. It's not a hack. Without an IDE, there won't be support for that anyway - after all, you're about to highlight blocks and the like, how is that supposed to work? And besides that - you might not _like_ decorators, but they do have a semantic. Just inserting random characters into the source code that one has to overread doesn't make any sense, it just clutters the code. With an proper IDE, you could make that tagging of yours bound to a simple keystroke, and the IDE could store the tagging information separately. E.g. eric3 offers some bookmark features, I presume something like your proposal would be possible, too. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
On Mar 9, 10:59 am, BJörn Lindqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9 Mar 2007 02:31:14 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the thoughts. This could be implemented without new syntax: just make your editor recognize some special comments, and apply the highlighting to the following block. By example, # XXX Remove this when FuruFaifa is fixed to always provide # XXX the names in the same order names.sort() names.reverse() Yes I recognise that we can use existing comments for this purpose, and if I was suitably gifted I guess I could try to make the IDE recognise these 'special comments', and maybe even work out what block they're meant to apply to. Of course I'll still argue that the WIP character would be a more elegant, speedy and versatile alternative. But you are overloading the ? character for a purpose which it totally was not meant for. What the character means really depends on what person you are asking. To me, it means that what precedes it is something someone or something does not know and wants to know the answer to. To me, it really does not mean that what follows it is work in progress. Even if I could intuitively tell that a question mark represents a work in progress, that information is not very useful. Similarly to the under construction animated gifs that were popular on the web in the mid 90-ties, the symbol does not convey any useful information. WHY is it a work in progress? Is there something wrong with it? ?def foobar(): do stuff The question mark does not leave me any the wiser. Now if you replace that question mark with a comment: # foobar() is buggy because it throws weird exceptions when x = 42. def foobar(): do stuff That gives me some useful information. -- mvh Björn- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - perhaps another character would be preferable. '~' perhaps. As to what you use the WIP character for- in my mind the purpose is to allow an extra type/level of commenting over and above #, which is inherently flexible. I could for example choose to use ? (or ~) for blocks I'm still writing, ?? (or ~~) for blocks that are buggy, and ??? (or ~~~) for blocks that work but could use optimization. It's a commenting shortcut for me as the script's developer and its advantage over # comments are speed or insertion/removal. Ah but I can see I'm not winning anybody over. I shall graciously retire! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: catching exceptions from an except: block
On Mar 9, 11:57 am, Gabriel Genellina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: En Fri, 09 Mar 2007 07:30:20 -0300, Gerard Flanagan [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: There is a serious flaw on this approach, the function can't return any false value (it would be treated as a failure). I was teaching myself decorators more than anything, so it's not thought out to any extent, but even so I don't think it's a serious flaw, rather it would be programmer error to use @onfailFalse on a function that may return False. Don't you think? I thought this was on response to the original problem, not for your own problem. Mea culpa. Gerard -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python-friendly hosting (was Re: merits of Lisp vs Python)
On 9 Mar, 02:32, John Nagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Dedicated server offerings] I'm not so familiar with dedicated servers, being unlikely to buy into that kind of hosting any time soon - I'm not running a business with serious reliability/control/uptime constraints where I could justify spending that kind of money. However... In neither case is the Python environment typically ready for serious use out of the box. Well, I can't say much about the off-the-shelf, locked down solutions with Plesk control panels, but if you just get a box with the pipes (an empty machine in a rack), you make from that what you will. Such a solution isn't likely to be any good for Perl, PHP or Ruby out of the box, either. I mean, what's the operating system? Do you have to provide that? If so, any modern GNU/Linux distribution would give you lots of acceptable packages for Python. There's denial in the Python community that this is a problem, but it is. The Ruby on Rails people get it; they work to provide a seamless experience for web developers. Which is why their market share is way up over two years ago. They got a number of things right. However, the big difference as I see it is that instead of wondering why various providers don't support Rails, they've either gone and started their own (including virtual private server solutions), or they've found existing, flexible providers (such as WebFaction) who were already providing lots of plumbing for various Python-based solutions and persuaded them to provide support for Rails. Last time I looked, Rails deployment situation seemed closely tied to FastCGI and a lot of other stuff that is arguably less attractive to various hosting providers than many of the ways you can deploy Python Web solutions. As for the denial, I can see your point to an extent. Before the Rails hype there were discussions about making Python solutions as attractive to deploy as PHP solutions, but a lot of the movers and shakers in the Python Web community seem to have the luxury of managing their own Internet-facing infrastructure. Thus, any progress really has to be driven by people like you with your own hosting requirements. Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
On Fri, 09 Mar 2007, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: Nick Craig-Wood a écrit : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if 2 new 'special' comment-like characters were added to Python?: 1. The WIP (Work In Progress) comment: I use # FIXME for this purpose or /* FIXME */ in C etc. I have an emacs macro which shows it up in bright red / yellow text so it is easy to see ot Care to share this macro ? /ot I have this (cond (window-system (progn (font-lock-add-keywords 'python-mode '((\\FIXME: .*$ 0 font-lock-warning-face prepend)) Robert -- La grenouille songe..dans son château d'eau Links and things http://rmstar.blogspot.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pb with descriptor and super ...
Gabriel Genellina a écrit : En Fri, 09 Mar 2007 06:25:08 -0300, Erwan Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: I have a problem with the use of descriptors and super. The file is : Descriptors for super behave a bit different than for classes. See http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html#cooperation --Gabriel Genellina Hi Gabriel, Thanks for your answer ... I followed the link and tried to use the fully functional implementation of the super() built-in class in pure Python given on this page and the result is quite surprising : # - class Super(object): def __init__(self, type, obj=None): self.__type__ = type self.__obj__ = obj def __get__(self, obj, type=None): if self.__obj__ is None and obj is not None: return Super(self.__type__, obj) else: return self def __getattr__(self, attr): if isinstance(self.__obj__, self.__type__): starttype = self.__obj__.__class__ else: starttype = self.__obj__ mro = iter(starttype.__mro__) for cls in mro: if cls is self.__type__: break # Note: mro is an iterator, so the second loop # picks up where the first one left off! for cls in mro: if attr in cls.__dict__: x = cls.__dict__[attr] if hasattr(x, __get__): x = x.__get__(self.__obj__) return x raise AttributeError, attr class Desc(object): def __init__(self, class_name): self.class_name = class_name return def __get__(self, obj, typ=None): print Desc.__get__ : class_name is %s, obj is %s and typ is %s%(self.class_name, obj, typ) return pass class A(object): attr = Desc(A) pass class B(A): attr = Desc(B) pass b = B() print Using built-in super attr = super(B, b).attr print Using python Super attr = Super(B, b).attr class MySuper(object): def __init__(self, type, obj=None): self.__type__ = type self.__obj__ = obj def __get__(self, obj, type=None): if self.__obj__ is None and obj is not None: return Super(self.__type__, obj) else: return self def __getattr__(self, attr): if isinstance(self.__obj__, self.__type__): starttype = self.__obj__.__class__ else: starttype = self.__obj__ mro = iter(starttype.__mro__) for cls in mro: if cls is self.__type__: break # Note: mro is an iterator, so the second loop # picks up where the first one left off! for cls in mro: if attr in cls.__dict__: x = cls.__dict__[attr] if hasattr(x, __get__): x = x.__get__(self.__obj__, cls) return x raise AttributeError, attr print Using python MySuper attr = MySuper(B, b).attr # -- it gives : [EMAIL PROTECTED] /home/adam/Work/Python] python super_from_guido.py Using built-in super Desc.__get__ : class_name is A, obj is __main__.B object at 0xb7bc302c and typ is class '__main__.B' Using python Super Desc.__get__ : class_name is A, obj is __main__.B object at 0xb7bc302c and typ is None Using python MySuper Desc.__get__ : class_name is A, obj is __main__.B object at 0xb7bc302c and typ is class '__main__.A' the Super gives None for typ ... which is quite surprising ! In MySuper, I just change x = x.__get__(self.__obj__) by x = x.__get__(self.__obj__, cls) at the -3 :) line of the class ... and it gives the result I expected at the beginning : obj is b and typ is A Best regards, E.A. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What is the best way to upgrade python?
On 8 Mar, 22:13, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, i am using red hat enterprise 4. It has python 2.3 installed. What is the best way to upgrade to python 2.4? By installing a version from the source packages available from python.org. I think one way is to compile python 2.4 from the source, but I can't remove the old one since when i do 'rpm -e python', i get error like 'failed dependencies'. That's because various administrative programs (and perhaps others) depend on Python 2.3 - unless Red Hat provide versions of these for Python 2.4 (which I suppose they don't in RHEL 4), then you can't remove Python 2.3 from your system. Either configure the source package choosing --prefix as something other than /usr (the default is /usr/local) and then install using make install, or choose --prefix as /usr and do a make altinstall. Using package management tools to build custom packages which can then be installed via the system tools might be an even better solution, since you can then manage what you've done and uninstall if necessary, but I can't tell you how that's done on Red Hat (with RPMs and so on). Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Creat a DLL File from python code, and use that DLL file in other Platform (Labview, Java .NET etc)
Hi, I would like to request your attention for this very specific issue: I have several classes in Python, and now I want simply re-use it, in other language. The closest to solution I think I came was with this site: http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndCtypesComExeServer?highlight=%28%28Py2exeAndCtypesComDllServer%29%29 but I not able to solve questions related with TLB files and __init__.py files. So, could anyone give a tip about HOW TO CREAT a dll file from Python? thank in advance AMMS -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
A Pythonic Way to Measure and Improve Your Programming Skills?
(inspired by a thread on the psf-members list about Python certification) Those who know me know I am no fan of the programmer certification industry and I agree that your typical certificate arrangement, e.g. to show HR to get that box checked in your candidate file, so a company can skip responsibility in vetting a candidate, is un-Pythonic. However, I do think we need a good answer to the engineering manager or team leader who asks, how do I know this person knows Python?, and to the candidate who thinks, I believe I'm good at Python but am I as good as I think?. The first case primarily cares about the reputation of the testing facility within the industry, so that if they choose wrong, they are absolved of blame. The latter two are often honestly looking for some guidance on bringing good people in-house or to step-up their programming skills. As Python use spreads, it becomes more important for the community to provide benchmarks for measuring skill levels, to avoid Python being relegated to the, respectfully, lightweight programmer category e.g. PHP or perhaps Ruby on Rails (not Ruby the language). Prior to PyCon I'd been thinking about some kind of campaign, service or documents, that I call So you think you know Python My initial idea was for use by Python programmers, who are honest with themselves, to have a way to measure their knowledge. We all run into or are programmers who think they are hot-stuff, especially those of us who work solo as many in our community do, but when put side-by-side against others, fall a bit short. PyCon can have that effect, with so many smart people in a small area. ;-) But the objective isn't to denegrate these programmers but to provide a measuring stick, along with an educational roadmap, so they can make wise choices. The rapid growth in use of Python is going to lead to a shortage in Python programmers, unless we manage the supply side as well. The manager wanting to find and hire good Python programmers is not an adversary seeking to use certificates to commoditize our community, but an ally in helping us get industry respect and career opportunities using our favorite language. We need to behind what he asks for to see what he needs. I've been carefully watching Crunchy, about which a talk was given at PyCon, for writing tutorials that, with its doctests feature, could be used to propose tests that pass and require a candidate to write an acceptable program. This week I was prototyping an rst2crunchy tool, that let's you write Crunchy scripts in reStructured Text, rather than HTML. Crunchy needs more features, such as a user login facility and measurement facilities to store test submissions for review by experienced Python programmers after they pass. From what I hear on the edu-sig list, André Roberge and Johannes Woolard are tackling these but could use more help. Johannes in particular was a student for Google's Summer of Code 2006 and I believe is looking for sponsorship for 2007. But perhaps Crunchy is not the ready answer in this case, so I'm looking for suggestions. With regard to how a manager can know a person is good at Python, besides looking at their portfolio of work, we could stake out conceptual areas of the language or libraries about which a programmer should be conversant. This might be a document, with example questions but carefully focused on what lies behind those questions, so an interviewer can come up with his own questions and avoid rote memorization. This conceptual map could also eventually form the basis of advanced-placement in schools that goes beyond those terrible Visual BASIC test questions. And for the Python programmer who wonders if his knowledge is broad enough and wants to improve him or herself, the conceptual map could have links/recommendations to training materials on specific topics. Join me on the advocacy list and let's discuss this further. You can join at: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy Jeff Rush Python Advocacy Coordinator -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Creating a DLL file from Python Code
Hi, I would like to request your attention for this very specific issue: I have several classes in Python, and now I want simply re-use it, in other language. The closest to solution I think I came was with this site: http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndCtypesComDllServer but I not able to solve questions related with TLB files and __init__.py files. So, could anyone give a tip about how to creat a dll file from Python? It is possible under any conditions? thank in advance macedo -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
MPI in python?
Hi guys, I am a relatively new user of python. I wanted to know what are the minimum requirements (modules, etc) are required for paralleliing python programs on a multiproc linux cluster. Is there a tutorial that explains the MPI syntax in python with examples? Thanking in advance, Joydeep -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: C++ and Python
On Mar 9, 7:04 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Everyone, I'm considering about generating some Python Bindings for C++ libraries. What are considered the best tools for doing something like this? I know that there are SWIG, SIP, Boost.Python, and GCC_XML. Thanks! Declare the functions you want to use in Python with 'extern C', and make them available in a dynamic library. Then use ctypes to call them directly. Regards, Willard -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those characters have no syntactical meaning... ? Neither does # until you give it syntactical meaning. I must be missing what you mean. Yes, it has. It says disregard the following characters until EOL. If you remove it, the following code will be interpreted as ... code (and not be disregarded). A WIP character would only be there for tagging and wouldn't change the program logic. Thus, IMHO, it's useless as a part of the Python language. Highlighting and tagging is task of editors/IDEs. would, IMHO, make the language dirty. Well I'm not a big fan of decorators so I know how you must feel. Mh, not sure -- why do you have decorators in mind? I don't dislike them. But # FIXME + a hack doesn't seem clean to me. I think it's much cleaner to have language and fixme levels separate. fixme features can then depend fully on the editor/IDE and don't have to be part of the source code (though they may). And commenting off the bottom half of a long script with triple quotes is ugly and a pain and you can't indicate multiple alternate halt points as in the 'tutorial script' example I gave. A proper editor can comment out multiple lines easily. A smart script can have multiple halt points user-selectable, though this is a big matter of taste. I think that in this case some kind of learning environment is better. Regards, Björn -- BOFH excuse #23: improperly oriented keyboard -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: catching exceptions from an except: block
En Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:14:18 -0300, Gerard Flanagan [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Mea culpa. Ego te absolvo in nomine Patris Guidii et Filii Python et Spiritus Sancti Computatorium. -- Gabriel Genellina -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: MPI in python?
try this http://sourceforge.net/projects/pympi/ On 3/9/07, Joydeep Mitra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, I am a relatively new user of python. I wanted to know what are the minimum requirements (modules, etc) are required for paralleliing python programs on a multiproc linux cluster. Is there a tutorial that explains the MPI syntax in python with examples? Thanking in advance, Joydeep -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- Regards-- Rishi Pathak National PARAM Supercomputing Facility Center for Development of Advanced Computing(C-DAC) Pune University Campus,Ganesh Khind Road Pune-Maharastra -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pylint: don't warn about tabs
Ben Finney wrote: Bjoern Schliessmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alan Isaac wrote: As a tab user, I want the tabs warning turned off. Advice: Don't. Agreed. Sticking to spaces for indentation avoids the ambiguity of interpretation that ASCII TAB characters are subject to. In addition, PEP 8 (which many people consider a strong suggestion for a style guide for all Python code) recommends four space characters for indentation. For those who prefer say 3 or 8, pylint permits this to be specified in the configuration file. Colin W. IIRC it's planned in future Python versions that TABs aren't supported for indentation. I've not seen such plans, can you support that? If you're thinking of this post from Guido, please note the date it was made: URL:http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=101968 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pb with descriptor and super ...
En Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:22:46 -0300, Erwan Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Thanks for your answer ... I followed the link and tried to use the fully functional implementation of the super() built-in class in pure Python given on this page and the result is quite surprising : It appears that there is some disagreement on how the super object should behave. If you want to know what it actually *does* now (not what it *should* do) you can look at typeobject.c, but it's a bit hard to read, and I don't understand it in full... Maybe looking at the test suite is easier, in test_descr.py -- Gabriel Genellina -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
Robert Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 09 Mar 2007, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: Nick Craig-Wood a ?crit : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if 2 new 'special' comment-like characters were added to Python?: 1. The WIP (Work In Progress) comment: I use # FIXME for this purpose or /* FIXME */ in C etc. I have an emacs macro which shows it up in bright red / yellow text so it is easy to see ot Care to share this macro ? /ot I have this (cond (window-system (progn (font-lock-add-keywords 'python-mode '((\\FIXME: .*$ 0 font-lock-warning-face prepend)) This is what I use which is very similar (font-lock-add-keywords 'python-mode '( ((FIXME\\):? 1 font-lock-warning-face prepend) ) ) -- Nick Craig-Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
Yes, it has. It says disregard the following characters until EOL. If you remove it, the following code will be interpreted as ... code (and not be disregarded). and ! would say disregard the following characters until End Of Program. Is it really so different? Well I'm not a big fan of decorators so I know how you must feel. Mh, not sure -- why do you have decorators in mind? I don't dislike them. Just because I remember reading similar aesthetic arguments against the @ syntax- that it looked alien, messy, unpythonic and obfuscating. I certainly agree with the latter point even if I find the former ones a little hand-wavey for my tastes. I think it's much cleaner to have language and fixme levels separate. fixme features can then depend fully on the editor/IDE and don't have to be part of the source code (though they may). That's certainly a solid ideological argument against the WIP character. Maybe I should just change my editor! It sounds like other Python users *do* like to do the kind of things I suggested, but seasoned users would rather rely on macros and features of specific editors. Unfortunately, to a newbie like myself, these seem like obscure 'tricks' to be mastered rather than simple built-in conveniences that any newbie can profit from. I suppose my ideology is that Python's greatest strength is (and focus should be) its visual simplicity and ease of learning, making programming more accessible to the masses. But hey I'm just a fresh- faced conscript. I guess I've got to leave the battle planning to the five-star generals on the hill! Thanks for all the comments and the spirit of tolerance. dave -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: C++ and Python
8 Mar 2007 22:04:48 -0800 skrev [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Everyone, I'm considering about generating some Python Bindings for C++ libraries. What are considered the best tools for doing something like this? I know that there are SWIG, SIP, Boost.Python, and GCC_XML. We are doing this quite extensively at work, and have found that in the long run SWIG is the best solution. OMMV, but if you ask me, the answer is SWIG. mvh, -- Mandus - the only mandus around. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
It sounds like other Python users *do* like to do the kind of things I suggested, but seasoned users would rather rely on macros and features of specific editors. Unfortunately, to a newbie like myself, these seem like obscure 'tricks' to be mastered rather than simple built-in conveniences that any newbie can profit from. But you _can't_ profit from these conveniences, at least not the ? character. It's just garbage put in there for some others to interpret, meaningless to the interpreter. So it _always_ boils down to editor-support. Now obviously _one_ scheme supported by all editors would be a great thing - so one could argue that a well-defined PEP that suggests a certain comment style that allows for your desired functionality would be a good thing. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
On 9 Mar, 14:05, Diez B. Roggisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But you _can't_ profit from these conveniences, at least not the ? character. It's just garbage put in there for some others to interpret, meaningless to the interpreter. So it _always_ boils down to editor-support. I'm sorry I don't follow your logic. Meaningless to the interpreter, yes, meaningless to the IDE or to me, no. I _can't_ profit from these conveniences? Why ever not? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Reading a portion of a file
Here is the code I've come up with. Please feel free to critique it
and let me know what you would change. Also, as you can see I call
open(SERVER,'r') twice; but I want to only call it once, what would
the best way to do this be?
import re
SERVER = 192.168.1.60
# Pull all data from server file.
FILE = open(SERVER,'r')
ALLINFO = FILE.read()
# Grab a list of all sections in the server file.
SECTIONS = re.findall((?m)^\#VS:\w*:.*:, ALLINFO)
# Remove duplicates from the list.
if SECTIONS:
SECTIONS.sort()
LAST = SECTIONS[-1]
for I in range(len(SECTIONS)-2, -1, -1):
if LAST==SECTIONS[I]: del SECTIONS[I]
else: LAST=SECTIONS[I]
# Pull data from each section and assign it a dictionary item.
# Data can be called using SECTIONDICT['section'] i.e
SECTIONDICT['df']
SECTIONDICT = {}
for SECT in SECTIONS:
PRESECTNAME1 = SECT[9:len(SECT) - 1]
PRESECTNAME2 = PRESECTNAME1.split(/)
SECTNAME = PRESECTNAME2[len(PRESECTNAME1.split(/)) - 1]
START = SECT + START
STOP = SECT + STOP
for LINE in open(SERVER,'r'):
LINE = LINE.strip()
if START in LINE:
SECTIONLISTTEMP = []
elif STOP in LINE:
SECTIONDICT[SECTNAME] = SECTIONLISTTEMP
SECTIONLISTTEMP = []
print - * 80
print SECTION: %s % SECTNAME
print SECTIONDICT[SECTNAME]
else:
if LINE:
SECTIONLISTTEMP.append(LINE)
FILE.close()
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Is this right? Multiple imports of same module.
From what I gleaned on some messages this is the way multiple imports of the same module work. Say, I have 3 modules (mod1.py, mod2.py, and mod3.py) and in the same session they all import another module mymodule.py like this: *In mod1.py import mymodule *In mod2.py import mymodule *In mod3.py import mymodule as MM Then mymodule is imported only once, but each module has access to it through the module name (mod1 and mod2) and the alias MM (mod3). Is that right? I was concerned about multiple imports and efficiency. Thanks for any info. -- Lou Pecora (my views are my own) REMOVE THIS to email me. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9 Mar, 14:05, Diez B. Roggisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But you _can't_ profit from these conveniences, at least not the ? character. It's just garbage put in there for some others to interpret, meaningless to the interpreter. So it _always_ boils down to editor-support. I'm sorry I don't follow your logic. Meaningless to the interpreter, yes, meaningless to the IDE or to me, no. I _can't_ profit from these conveniences? Why ever not? Exactly, the ? is meaningless to the language itself, it's only a comment sign - but what you want is 1. The WIP (Work In Progress) comment: A '?' placed in the preceding whitespace of a line as a means of quickly highlighting a line or block of code for special attention. Now tell me - how exactly do you highlight a text? That is solely part of the editor you use, either it will parse the ? - the same way it would parse a # fixme or # wip comment - and react accordingly, or it won't. But for python itself, it has no meaning whatsoever, and would just be a character to overread, introducing visual clutter. So - if you want that feature, patch your editor of choice to deal with that comments, make them added and removed with a key stroke, whatever - be my guest. But it has nothing to do with _python_ the language, so it doesn't belong there. Besides, I don't see how quick highlighting of text is something that needs to be persisted anyway - if it is quick, hightlight it within the editor until the file is closed. If not, it might be well worth a comment anyway why you think it needs special attention. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
number generator
I have to generate a list of N random numbers (integer) whose sum is equal to M. If, for example, I have to generate 5 random numbers whose sum is 50 a possible solution could be [3, 11, 7, 22, 7]. Is there a simple pattern or function in Python to accomplish that? Thanks and regards Francesco -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: number generator
cesco [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have to generate a list of N random numbers (integer) whose sum is equal to M. If, for example, I have to generate 5 random numbers whose sum is 50 a possible solution could be [3, 11, 7, 22, 7]. Is there a simple pattern or function in Python to accomplish that? Erm, yes, lots of ways, there are probably further constraints on the problem, such as the size of the integers, how the lists are supposed to be distributed, etc. Can you be more specific? Is this for an application? If it's a homework problem, that's fine, but it's better in that case for respondents to suggest hints rather than full solutions. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
I'm sorry I don't follow your logic. Meaningless to the interpreter, yes, meaningless to the IDE or to me, no. I _can't_ profit from these conveniences? Why ever not? Exactly, the ? is meaningless to the language itself, it's only a comment sign - ... ... it has nothing to do with _python_ the language, so it doesn't belong there. But # is 'only a comment sign' as well, and equally meaningless to the interpreter. But it's still part of the language, very very useful and I profit from its existence every day. But for python itself, it has no meaning whatsoever, and would just be a character to overread, introducing visual clutter. If you can highlight an entire block with a single character, won't there be _less_ visual clutter than the current way of achieving the same effect with # comments? So - if you want that feature, patch your editor of choice to deal with that comments, make them added and removed with a key stroke, whatever - be my guest. Would if I could! Besides, I don't see how quick highlighting of text is something that needs to be persisted anyway - if it is quick, hightlight it within the editor until the file is closed. If not, it might be well worth a comment anyway why you think it needs special attention. What we're talking about here is a form of 'alternate commenting style'. With the IDE's cooperation it'd work on whole blocks at once, it would highlight without disrupting the code concerned (at least the way I'm envisaging it), it would be versatile (could probably be used for as big a variety of purposes as the # comment), and yes, it'd be persistent, which is how it would be different from any IDE-based highlighting. I think that'd be most useful. You don't. So far nobody else here does either, and I've not persuaded anybody differently. Fair enough! dave -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Creating a DLL file from Python Code
[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Hi, I would like to request your attention for this very specific issue: I have several classes in Python, and now I want simply re-use it, in other language. The closest to solution I think I came was with this site: http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndCtypesComDllServer but I not able to solve questions related with TLB files and __init__.py files. So, could anyone give a tip about how to creat a dll file from Python? It is possible under any conditions? For inter-languages intagration maybe you can use some distributed objects protocol like CORBA (see OmniORBpy), or - as you wrote about a DLL - COM/DCOM (see pywin32). Or write a simple TCP or UDP layer to communicate with your existing classes. Note: all that need some work in the Python side to be able to work using a client/server model. Note2: as long as your interface dont change, you can make modifications in both sides without problem. A+ Laurent. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: number generator
On Mar 9, 3:51 pm, Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cesco [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have to generate a list of N random numbers (integer) whose sum is equal to M. If, for example, I have to generate 5 random numbers whose sum is 50 a possible solution could be [3, 11, 7, 22, 7]. Is there a simple pattern or function in Python to accomplish that? Erm, yes, lots of ways, there are probably further constraints on the problem, such as the size of the integers, how the lists are supposed to be distributed, etc. Can you be more specific? Is this for an application? If it's a homework problem, that's fine, but it's better in that case for respondents to suggest hints rather than full solutions. Given two positive integers, N and M with N M, I have to generate N positive integers such that sum(N)=M. No more constraints. Thanks again Francesco -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Creat a DLL File from python code, and use that DLL file in other Platform (Labview, Java .NET etc)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I would like to request your attention for this very specific issue: I have several classes in Python, and now I want simply re-use it, in other language. The closest to solution I think I came was with this site: http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndCtypesComExeServer?highlight=%28%28Py2exeAndCtypesComDllServer%29%29 but I not able to solve questions related with TLB files and __init__.py files. So, could anyone give a tip about HOW TO CREAT a dll file from Python? You might have success with http://elmer.sourceforge.net/ Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
opinion needed
id like to hear your opinion about something. I just started using Prolog yesterday and i have my doubts about it, but it seems to me something like object oriented. so i wanted to ask you how usefull prolog is. Sure this is no prolog newsgroup so my question is: because it seems object oriented, how important is it by understanding python and improving my python skills. because i just started it, i may bee totaly wrong or i missunderstood. thnx -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: C++ and Python
Mandus wrote: 8 Mar 2007 22:04:48 -0800 skrev [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Everyone, I'm considering about generating some Python Bindings for C++ libraries. What are considered the best tools for doing something like this? I know that there are SWIG, SIP, Boost.Python, and GCC_XML. We are doing this quite extensively at work, and have found that in the long run SWIG is the best solution. OMMV, but if you ask me, the answer is SWIG. mvh, -- Mandus - the only mandus around. Hi, Why do you think it is better than ctypes ? Thanks, hg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: number generator
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], cesco wrote: Given two positive integers, N and M with N M, I have to generate N positive integers such that sum(N)=M. No more constraints. Break it into subproblems. Generate a random number X from a suitable range and you are left with one number, and the problem to generate (N-1) random numbers that add up to (M-X). You have to think a little bit about the suitable range part though. The necessary functions to draw random numbers are in the `random` module. Ciao, Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is this right? Multiple imports of same module.
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lou Pecora wrote: *In mod1.py import mymodule *In mod2.py import mymodule *In mod3.py import mymodule as MM Then mymodule is imported only once, but each module has access to it through the module name (mod1 and mod2) and the alias MM (mod3). Is that right? Yes, that's correct. Ciao, Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: number generator
On Mar 9, 4:17 pm, cesco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 9, 3:51 pm, Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cesco [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have to generate a list of N random numbers (integer) whose sum is equal to M. If, for example, I have to generate 5 random numbers whose sum is 50 a possible solution could be [3, 11, 7, 22, 7]. Is there a simple pattern or function in Python to accomplish that? Erm, yes, lots of ways, there are probably further constraints on the problem, such as the size of the integers, how the lists are supposed to be distributed, etc. Can you be more specific? Is this for an application? If it's a homework problem, that's fine, but it's better in that case for respondents to suggest hints rather than full solutions. Given two positive integers, N and M with N M, I have to generate N positive integers such that sum(N)=M. No more constraints. Thanks again Francesco Suppose you have a fixed telegraph pole at N and a fixed telgraph pole at M, and you're given 5 more telegraph poles... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: C++ and Python
On 8 Mar 2007 22:04:48 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Everyone, I'm considering about generating some Python Bindings for C++ libraries. What are considered the best tools for doing something like this? I know that there are SWIG, SIP, Boost.Python, and GCC_XML. If you ask me than Boost.Python and Py++( http://language-binding.net/pyplusplus/pyplusplus.html) is the way to go. I collected few links to articles that compare between different tools: http://language-binding.net/pyplusplus/comparisons/compare_to.html Until recently there was not big library written in C++, which was exposed to Python using different tools. Today there are two projects, which expose same source code to Python. The exposed library is Ogre - a scene-oriented, flexible 3D engine, pretty big and complex project. The first solution, PyOgre, uses SWIG, while the second one uses Py++. The link I gave earlier contains links to the projects CVS's. It worse to take a look on them and compare. P.S. Take all what I say with caution, because I am the author of Py++. -- Roman Yakovenko C++ Python language binding http://www.language-binding.net/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: number generator
On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 07:17 -0800, cesco wrote: On Mar 9, 3:51 pm, Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cesco [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have to generate a list of N random numbers (integer) whose sum is equal to M. If, for example, I have to generate 5 random numbers whose sum is 50 a possible solution could be [3, 11, 7, 22, 7]. Is there a simple pattern or function in Python to accomplish that? Erm, yes, lots of ways, there are probably further constraints on the problem, such as the size of the integers, how the lists are supposed to be distributed, etc. Can you be more specific? Is this for an application? If it's a homework problem, that's fine, but it's better in that case for respondents to suggest hints rather than full solutions. Given two positive integers, N and M with N M, I have to generate N positive integers such that sum(N)=M. No more constraints. Paul still had a point, since the word positive is a vital piece of information that never appeared in your original description. -Carsten -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is this right? Multiple imports of same module.
On 3/9/07, Lou Pecora [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *In mod1.py import mymodule *In mod2.py import mymodule *In mod3.py import mymodule as MM Then mymodule is imported only once, but each module has access to it through the module name (mod1 and mod2) and the alias MM (mod3). Is that right? Yup, and occasionally it's useful to do stuff like this... I was concerned about multiple imports and efficiency. ... but not for this reason. Subsequent imports of an already loaded module are very quick. -- Cheers, Simon B [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is this right? Multiple imports of same module.
On Mar 9, 3:30 pm, Lou Pecora [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then mymodule is imported only once, but each module has access to it through the module name (mod1 and mod2) and the alias MM (mod3). Is that right? Yes, it is. I was concerned about multiple imports and efficiency. If the module is already loaded, it won't be loaded again. Dictionary of loaded modules is avaliable as sys.modules. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: opinion needed
On 2007-03-09, azrael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just started using Prolog yesterday and i have my doubts about it, but it seems to me something like object oriented. Not in my experience, but I haven't used Prolog for 10 years. so i wanted to ask you how usefull prolog is. It's brilliant for doing predicate logic. It sort of sucks for most other things. Sure this is no prolog newsgroup so my question is: because it seems object oriented, how important is it by understanding python and improving my python skills. What? because i just started it, i may bee totaly wrong or i missunderstood. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Were these parsnips at CORRECTLY MARINATED in visi.comTACO SAUCE? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry I don't follow your logic. Meaningless to the interpreter, yes, meaningless to the IDE or to me, no. I _can't_ profit from these conveniences? Why ever not? Exactly, the ? is meaningless to the language itself, it's only a comment sign - ... ... it has nothing to do with _python_ the language, so it doesn't belong there. But # is 'only a comment sign' as well, and equally meaningless to the interpreter. But it's still part of the language, very very useful and I profit from its existence every day. A language has to have a comment mechanism, some even several. But all of them are clear on how they work: they affect one line, or have a bracket style like /* */ and thus demark clearly what they affect. Even someone not fluent in the language in question will quickly grab what they mean. But the key-difference is that the comment in python has a meaning for the interpreter - ignore this. The ? has no meaning. It only has a meaning for an editor. But for python itself, it has no meaning whatsoever, and would just be a character to overread, introducing visual clutter. If you can highlight an entire block with a single character, won't there be _less_ visual clutter than the current way of achieving the same effect with # comments? Not in my opinion - # fixme def foo(): pass is much more clear than a rather obscure and by the occasional beholder maybe misinterpreted ?def foo(): pass Would if I could! Well, grab eric3, it's written in python, and teach it to do so! It's an exercise in python then :) It already has some features like bookmarks, shouldn't be too hard to build upon that. What we're talking about here is a form of 'alternate commenting style'. With the IDE's cooperation it'd work on whole blocks at once, it would highlight without disrupting the code concerned (at least the way I'm envisaging it), it would be versatile (could probably be used for as big a variety of purposes as the # comment), and yes, it'd be persistent, which is how it would be different from any IDE-based highlighting. I think you contradict yourself here. On the one side, you want it not disturbing to the eye, yet it should be highlighted, so it will be directly noticed by that same eyes. This is why I believe that your idea by itself - the visually marking of code parts - is a good thing, but the embedding into code is not, because it _is_ an disturbance. And with an IDE that stores such information in e.g. project metainformation, you can even have the persistence, without the disturbance and without altering python. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: number generator
Carsten Haese [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Given two positive integers, N and M with N M, I have to generate N positive integers such that sum(N)=M. No more constraints. Paul still had a point, since the word positive is a vital piece of information that never appeared in your original description. It's maybe even more complicated that way. Does the OP want to generate each possible partition with equal probability? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_number for more info. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
Nick Craig-Wood a écrit : Robert Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 09 Mar 2007, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: Nick Craig-Wood a ?crit : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if 2 new 'special' comment-like characters were added to Python?: 1. The WIP (Work In Progress) comment: I use # FIXME for this purpose or /* FIXME */ in C etc. I have an emacs macro which shows it up in bright red / yellow text so it is easy to see ot Care to share this macro ? /ot I have this (cond (window-system (progn (font-lock-add-keywords 'python-mode '((\\FIXME: .*$ 0 font-lock-warning-face prepend)) This is what I use which is very similar (font-lock-add-keywords 'python-mode '( ((FIXME\\):? 1 font-lock-warning-face prepend) ) ) Thanks you both. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: opinion needed
On Mar 9, 4:27 pm, azrael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: id like to hear your opinion about something. I just started using Prolog yesterday and i have my doubts about it, but it seems to me something like object oriented. so i wanted to ask you how usefull prolog is. It's very useful for Logic Programming classes. Better pick would be RDFS or OWL, and a logic engine of choice. There are Python implementations. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
about application deployment
Hello, I'ld ask you all about deployment of python applications. Sometimes (if not most times..) I would make deployment easy (easier) for my customers (and for me too...) What I mean, would be very useful to have a jar-like archive/single file / multiple platform in order to deploy also complex applications with many modules. I know about py2exe, it's nice but it's Windows only, I would need something multiplatform or at least available also for other platforms (*nix, Mac maybe, ...) My impression is that Python is a great language but a bit messy about on field deployment... What am I missing ? :) What are your experiences (and solutions ?) for this issues ? Many thanks in advance! bye! Ale -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: opinion needed
azrael wrote: id like to hear your opinion about something. I just started using Prolog yesterday and i have my doubts about it, but it seems to me something like object oriented. so i wanted to ask you how usefull prolog is. Sure this is no prolog newsgroup so my question is: because it seems object oriented, how important is it by understanding python and improving my python skills. because i just started it, i may bee totaly wrong or i missunderstood. OO? Prolog? Last time I checked it was much more functional if anything else, good for searching solutions in problem-spaces via backtracking. Certainly a concept one should get ones head wrapped around, if only to have a new perspective. No idea how you come to the conclusion it's OO though. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: about application deployment
Alessandro de Manzano wrote: Hello, I'ld ask you all about deployment of python applications. Sometimes (if not most times..) I would make deployment easy (easier) for my customers (and for me too...) What I mean, would be very useful to have a jar-like archive/single file / multiple platform in order to deploy also complex applications with many modules. I know about py2exe, it's nice but it's Windows only, I would need something multiplatform or at least available also for other platforms (*nix, Mac maybe, ...) My impression is that Python is a great language but a bit messy about on field deployment... What am I missing ? :) What are your experiences (and solutions ?) for this issues ? There are the greate setuptools available, that make creating and installing a single .egg-file (which is very close to a jar) easy as cake - provided you've got them working. I'm not sure if there is some equivalent as java -jar jar though. Could be worth thinking about. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: number generator
cesco wrote: On Mar 9, 3:51 pm, Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] cesco [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have to generate a list of N random numbers (integer) whose sum is equal to M. If, for example, I have to generate 5 random numbers whose sum is 50 a possible solution could be [3, 11, 7, 22, 7]. Is there a simple pattern or function in Python to accomplish that? Isn't at least one of those numbers depending on the others? Given two positive integers, N and M with N M, I have to generate N positive integers such that sum(N)=M. No more constraints. Then why must they be random? div and mod should do it. Regards, Björn -- BOFH excuse #220: Someone thought The Big Red Button was a light switch. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is this right? Multiple imports of same module.
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lou Pecora wrote: *In mod1.py import mymodule *In mod2.py import mymodule *In mod3.py import mymodule as MM Then mymodule is imported only once, but each module has access to it through the module name (mod1 and mod2) and the alias MM (mod3). Is that right? Yes, that's correct. Ciao, Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch Thank you. A further confusion (if I may): I have noticed that using from xxx import * can lead to problems when trying to access variables in the xxx module. E.g. -- File f2.py imvar=1 def prn(): print imvar -- File junk.py from f2 import * prn() imvar=2 prn() -- Running junk.py gives the output: 1 1 Not what I would expect which is, 1 2 Namespaces get confusing. I have begun to switch to using 'import f2 as' which gives the 2nd expected result. Safer, but still a bit puzzling. -- Lou Pecora (my views are my own) REMOVE THIS to email me. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is this right? Multiple imports of same module.
On 3/9/07, Lou Pecora [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have noticed that using from xxx import * can lead to problems when trying to access variables in the xxx module. Don't do it, then. ;-) -- Cheers, Simon B [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is this right? Multiple imports of same module.
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Bart Ogryczak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 9, 3:30 pm, Lou Pecora [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then mymodule is imported only once, but each module has access to it through the module name (mod1 and mod2) and the alias MM (mod3). Is that right? Yes, it is. Praise the Lord. :-) I got one right in the namespaces puzzles. (But see my followup on using 'from XXX import *' in this thread. I'm still not a namespace guru. I was concerned about multiple imports and efficiency. If the module is already loaded, it won't be loaded again. Dictionary of loaded modules is avaliable as sys.modules. Good to know. Thank you. -- Lou Pecora (my views are my own) REMOVE THIS to email me. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: opinion needed
On 2007-03-09, Diez B. Roggisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: azrael wrote: id like to hear your opinion about something. I just started using Prolog yesterday and i have my doubts about it, but it seems to me something like object oriented. so i wanted to ask you how usefull prolog is. Sure this is no prolog newsgroup so my question is: because it seems object oriented, how important is it by understanding python and improving my python skills. because i just started it, i may bee totaly wrong or i missunderstood. OO? Prolog? Last time I checked it was much more functional if anything else, good for searching solutions in problem-spaces via backtracking. Certainly a concept one should get ones head wrapped around, if only to have a new perspective. No idea how you come to the conclusion it's OO though. There apparently are OO Prolog extensions: http://sourceforge.net/projects/oopl/ http://www.trinc-prolog.com/doc/pl_obj.htm -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! These PRESERVES at should be FORCE-FED to visi.comPENTAGON OFFICIALS!! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: number generator
On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 06:44:01 -0800, cesco wrote: I have to generate a list of N random numbers (integer) whose sum is equal to M. If, for example, I have to generate 5 random numbers whose sum is 50 a possible solution could be [3, 11, 7, 22, 7]. Is there a simple pattern or function in Python to accomplish that? No, you'll have to program it yourself. You might like to Google for the coin change algorithm for some hints on how to accomplish this. It's not the same problem, but it might give you some ideas on how to solve it. The way to solve this problem also depends on what you mean by random numbers. For example, if the random numbers have to be uniformly distributed (so that all numbers in the appropriate range are equally likely to be picked), I think the only way to proceed is with the horribly inefficient algorithm: (1) Generate every possible list of N random numbers between 1 and the maximum value allowed. If the maximum value is (say) 10, there will 10**N such lists. (2) Check each list's sum to see if it equals M, and eliminate it if it doesn't. That guarantees that the individual random numbers all have the same probability, but the execution time will explode for large N. If you relax the requirement that all the random numbers have the same probability, you can use a heuristic that is biased towards picking smaller numbers. E.g. something like this: def make_sum(N, M): Generate a random list of N ints that sum to M. # WARNING: untested! def get_sum(M): # Returns a list of any length that sums to M. L = [] while M 0: n = random.randint(1, M) L.append(n) M -= n return L L = [] while len(L) != N: L = get_sum(M) return L This isn't a particularly good algorithm, since it will take a LONG time to return a solution on average, but it should give you some clues towards solving the problem more efficiently. Another procedure might be to do something like the following: We want to make a list of 5 numbers adding up to 50. The first random number between 1 and 50 might be (say) 13. So our list will consist of [13] plus a list of 4 numbers adding up to 37. And so on... There's a few subtleties which I'll leave to you. Last but not least, another possible algorithm is to start with a list of N numbers, regardless of whether or not they add to M, and then adjust each one up or down by some amount until they sum to the correct value. -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: about application deployment
If a .egg file is in your sys.path, it would be nice to simply use 'python -m' in my opinion. As far as I know, you can't '-m' a module that's been imported from a zip file? On 3/9/07, Diez B. Roggisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alessandro de Manzano wrote: Hello, I'ld ask you all about deployment of python applications. Sometimes (if not most times..) I would make deployment easy (easier) for my customers (and for me too...) What I mean, would be very useful to have a jar-like archive/single file / multiple platform in order to deploy also complex applications with many modules. I know about py2exe, it's nice but it's Windows only, I would need something multiplatform or at least available also for other platforms (*nix, Mac maybe, ...) My impression is that Python is a great language but a bit messy about on field deployment... What am I missing ? :) What are your experiences (and solutions ?) for this issues ? There are the greate setuptools available, that make creating and installing a single .egg-file (which is very close to a jar) easy as cake - provided you've got them working. I'm not sure if there is some equivalent as java -jar jar though. Could be worth thinking about. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Problem with new Vista and os.system
I'm getting myself set up on a new Vista box at work, and one of my old scripts has stopped working. Specifically, all calls to os.system return a -1. Whatever action I was asking os.system to run does not take place. Is this a Vista thing, or perhaps just a wonky setting in my environment. Oh, python 2.5. Arne -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Problem with new Vista and os.system
I'm getting myself set up on a new Vista box at work, and one of my old scripts has stopped working. Specifically, all calls to os.system return a -1. Whatever action I was asking os.system to run does not take place. Is this a Vista thing, or perhaps just a wonky setting in my environment? I've installed the latest python (2.5) within the past two weeks... I've double-checked other functions for os.* and they seem to work from the python command line - it's just os.system. Arne -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is this right? Multiple imports of same module.
On Mar 9, 5:18 pm, Lou Pecora [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have noticed that using from xxx import * can lead to problems when trying to access variables in the xxx module. ``from xxx import *`` is intended to be used in the interactive interpreter only. Michele Simionato -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
But all of them are clear on how they work: they affect one line, or have a bracket style like /* */ and thus demark clearly what they affect. Even someone not fluent in the language in question will quickly grab what they mean. There's nothing remotely fuzzy about how wip or halt comments would work, nor anything unclear about what they would affect. Nor are they remotely difficult to explain. They just haven't been employed before, to my knowledge, even though the underlying effects seem to be a reasonably common requirement. But the key-difference is that the comment in python has a meaning for the interpreter - ignore this. OK that is true. But it's true for the halt comment as well. The ? has no meaning. It only has a meaning for an editor. So it _does_ have meaning! I'm sorry I just don't buy into this kind of abstract programming ideology, and I never really have. I don't care what the interpreter finds meaningful and neither, on a day to day basis, do most users, I'm sure. It seems like the same kind of aesthetic ideology that leads lots of programmers to feel repulsed by Python's whitespace block delimiting. There's a more important principle being missed by them: the human factor. The guy or gal who's actually _using_ this stuff. BTW I don't mean to imply that you're not thinking about human readability / useability, just that you don't seem to be arguing from that basis. Not in my opinion - ;p Would if I could! Well, grab eric3, it's written in python, and teach it to do so! It's an exercise in python then :) I may do that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. What we're talking about here is a form of 'alternate commenting style'. With the IDE's cooperation it'd work on whole blocks at once, it would highlight without disrupting the code concerned (at least the way I'm envisaging it), it would be versatile (could probably be used for as big a variety of purposes as the # comment), and yes, it'd be persistent, which is how it would be different from any IDE-based highlighting. I think you contradict yourself here. On the one side, you want it not disturbing to the eye, yet it should be highlighted, so it will be directly noticed by that same eyes. You misread me. I wasn't talking about visual disturbance but 'code disturbance'. Let me rephrase.. ..it would highlight without causing the highlighted code to be ignored by the interpreter.. it _is_ an disturbance. And with an IDE that stores such information in e.g. project metainformation, you can even have the persistence, without the disturbance and without altering python. So it's fine and wonderful to add a massive chunk of code to IDEs to introduce jargon-strewn behaviour that newbies have little hope of comprehending yet alone taking advantage of, and which will inevitably behave differently in any IDE that does get around to providing it? But adding two special characters to the core language is 'messy'? I can't argue with your aesthetic dislike of the proposed syntax, it's just the reasoning you use to support your stance that doesn't ring true to me! (I trust no offense is caused.) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Creat a DLL File from python code, and use that DLL file in other Platform (Labview, Java .NET etc)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I would like to request your attention for this very specific issue: I have several classes in Python, and now I want simply re-use it, in other language. The closest to solution I think I came was with this site: http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndCtypesComExeServer?highlight=%28%28Py2exeAndCtypesComDllServer%29%29 but I not able to solve questions related with TLB files and __init__.py files. So, could anyone give a tip about HOW TO CREAT a dll file from Python? thank in advance AMMS Do you absolutely need .DLL? You can make a class into a COM object that nearly every language on the planet can dispatch with ease. Here is some info: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythonwin32/chapter/ch12.html Calling an existing .DLL? Use ctypes module. -Larry -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pb with descriptor and super ...
On Mar 9, 11:22 am, Erwan Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] [EMAIL PROTECTED] /home/adam/Work/Python] python super_from_guido.py Using built-in super Desc.__get__ : class_name is A, obj is __main__.B object at 0xb7bc302c and typ is class '__main__.B' Using python Super Desc.__get__ : class_name is A, obj is __main__.B object at 0xb7bc302c and typ is None Using python MySuper Desc.__get__ : class_name is A, obj is __main__.B object at 0xb7bc302c and typ is class '__main__.A' It seems to me that it is the built-in super which has the correct behaviour. When you write obj.attr, python calls attr.__get__(obj, type(obj)) and not attr.__get__(obj) which sets the second arg to None. You can check this by creating a barebone descriptor that simply prints its arguments: class D(object): def __get__(self, obj, objtype): print obj, objtype class A(object): d=D() A().d __main__.A object at 0x133c5f0 class '__main__.A' # objtype is not None! Therefore in your case when you do super(B, b).attr then A.__dict__['attr'].__get__(b, type(b)) is called. You can try this, it should give the same output as builtin super. the Super gives None for typ ... which is quite surprising ! In MySuper, I just change x = x.__get__(self.__obj__) by x = x.__get__(self.__obj__, cls) at the -3 :) line of the class ... and it gives the result I expected at the beginning : obj is b and typ is A Neither of these are right I think. If my explanation above is right the correct line should be: x = x.__get__(self.__obj__, type(self.__obj__)) HTH -- Arnaud -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
The ? has no meaning. It only has a meaning for an editor. So it _does_ have meaning! I'm sorry I just don't buy into this kind of abstract programming ideology, and I never really have. I don't care what the interpreter finds meaningful and neither, on a day to day basis, do most users, I'm sure. It seems like the same kind of aesthetic ideology that leads lots of programmers to feel repulsed by Python's whitespace block delimiting. There's a more important principle being missed by them: the human factor. The guy or gal who's actually _using_ this stuff. BTW I don't mean to imply that you're not thinking about human readability / useability, just that you don't seem to be arguing from that basis. I certainly do. Because a comment is always a comment. If you happen to have a multi-line comment (in python that is) that spans more than a page of your current terminal, you clearly will see it as such when piped through less - a frequent tool for looking into code of libraries for example. At least for me, and I guess some other coders as well. But a tiny ? or !, the latter one massively changing the semantics of the displayed code? I'm not too positive that this will be getting the proper attention needed when comprehending the code. Even the multiline-comments of C are easier, because they feature an end-mark. Which for one _is_ easier to implement, thus even less might implement some syntax hi-lighting based on it (if the terminal supports that, that is. I've been doing my fair share of last-minute hacking through malconfigured ssh-connections in vi, no syntax-highlighting whatsoever) - while it is much less probable that less will grow a full blown python parser just for the sake of hi-lighting a !-prefixed block of code. FWIW, I'm totally convinced that the addition of this feature to the interpreter itself would be a minor operation that wouldn't cause much headache from a implementation POV. It's just I don't buy into its usefulness. What we're talking about here is a form of 'alternate commenting style'. With the IDE's cooperation it'd work on whole blocks at once, it would highlight without disrupting the code concerned (at least the way I'm envisaging it), it would be versatile (could probably be used for as big a variety of purposes as the # comment), and yes, it'd be persistent, which is how it would be different from any IDE-based highlighting. I think you contradict yourself here. On the one side, you want it not disturbing to the eye, yet it should be highlighted, so it will be directly noticed by that same eyes. You misread me. I wasn't talking about visual disturbance but 'code disturbance'. Let me rephrase.. ..it would highlight without causing the highlighted code to be ignored by the interpreter.. What do you mean by code-disturbance? Programming is usually something that needs carefully assembled sequences of characters, with some seemingly minor interpunction characters becoming extremly meaningful. And you want to add to that the complexity of something that has _no_ meaning at all - for the language. To me that is a disturbance. Clearly a matter of taste, though. it _is_ an disturbance. And with an IDE that stores such information in e.g. project metainformation, you can even have the persistence, without the disturbance and without altering python. So it's fine and wonderful to add a massive chunk of code to IDEs to introduce jargon-strewn behaviour that newbies have little hope of comprehending yet alone taking advantage of, and which will inevitably behave differently in any IDE that does get around to providing it? But adding two special characters to the core language is 'messy'? Adding two characters to the language from which one's only purpose is to support the introduction of jargon-strewn behavior that newbies have little hope of comprehending let alone taking advantage of, and which will inevitable behave differently in any IDE that does get around providing it. I couldn't say it better. It is exactly my point: the ? is _nothing_ without an IDE, where _none_ of them is forced to interpret and represent it by any means. Yet still you want to add it? Sorry, I can't buy that. Besides, the whole purpose of IDEs is to add massive chunks of code to e.g. analyze class structures, show syntactic errors even before the code is run and so on... so if you accept that editing code is more than poking with a hex editor on your hard disk image, I fail to see the problem of adding such chunks of code if it is feasible. I can't argue with your aesthetic dislike of the proposed syntax, it's just the reasoning you use to support your stance that doesn't ring true to me! (I trust no offense is caused.) Certainly not. And I don't intend to cause offense myself! Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: about application deployment
Alessandro de Manzano wrote: Hello, I'ld ask you all about deployment of python applications. Sometimes (if not most times..) I would make deployment easy (easier) for my customers (and for me too...) What I mean, would be very useful to have a jar-like archive/single file / multiple platform in order to deploy also complex applications with many modules. I know about py2exe, it's nice but it's Windows only, I would need something multiplatform or at least available also for other platforms (*nix, Mac maybe, ...) My impression is that Python is a great language but a bit messy about on field deployment... What am I missing ? :) What are your experiences (and solutions ?) for this issues ? Many thanks in advance! bye! Ale I think you are going to find that you need different deployment methods for different operating systems. When you deploy you will no doubt have different things to do (shortcuts, registry entries, .INI file entries, etc.) that you want to do. On Windows my choice is py2exe to bundle and then Inno Installer to make a setup.exe distrubution program that handles the install and uninstall. Others can chime in on linux, mac, etc. -Larry -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
SQLite3 trapping OperationalError
pyhelp, I set up a table in SQLite3. While running other modules I want to know if a table exists. SQL has a command List Tables but I don't think SQLlite3 has this command. I've tried cursor.execute(select * from debtor where key is not null ) The table debtor does not exist so I get OperationalError which I want to trap with try/except or some other way. However python 2.5, except OperationalError: responds with OperationalError is not defined. Ideas on how to determine if a table exists would be welcome. jim-on-linux -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: SQLite3 trapping OperationalError
On 3/9/07, jim-on-linux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However python 2.5, except OperationalError: responds with OperationalError is not defined. I believe that needs to be spelled except sqlite3.OperationalError: do_something() -- Jerry -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: SQLite3 trapping OperationalError
On Friday 09 March 2007 13:10, Jerry Hill wrote: On 3/9/07, jim-on-linux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However python 2.5, except OperationalError: responds with OperationalError is not defined. I believe that needs to be spelled except sqlite3.OperationalError: do_something() -- Jerry Thanks, except sqlite3.OperationalError: works for me. jim-on-linux -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Are Lists thread safe?
Are lists thread safe? Or do I have to use a Lock when modifying the list (adding, removing, etc)? Can you point me to some documentation on this? thanks -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 2 new comment-like characters in Python to aid development?
Bruno Desthuilliers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick Craig-Wood a ecrit : I use # FIXME for this purpose or /* FIXME */ in C etc. I have an emacs macro which shows it up in bright red / yellow text so it is easy to see Thanks you both. For what it's worth, sufficiently recent versions of emacs python-mode have this built in. -M- -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: merits of Lisp vs Python
On 2007-03-09 07:00:06 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alex Martelli) said: (nee One Laptop Per Child, OLPC, and once known as the $100 laptop) uses Python as its preferred (only?-) application language, and it's slated to be the most widely distributed Python distro if it hits even half of its ambitious target-numbers... But it won't get anywhere near that because it's a stupid an ill-conceived idea (not because of Python, note!). The electronic gadget people need in the developing world is a mobile phone not a computer. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Are Lists thread safe?
abcd wrote: Are lists thread safe? Or do I have to use a Lock when modifying the list (adding, removing, etc)? Can you point me to some documentation on this? thanks You really should at least try Google first: http://effbot.org/pyfaq/what-kinds-of-global-value-mutation-are-thread-safe.htm -Larry -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Best place for a function?
On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 05:27:04PM -0500, Sergio Correia wrote: I'm writing a class, where one of the methods is kinda complex. The method uses a function which I know for certain will not be used anywhere else. This function does not require anything from self, only the args passed by the method. Where should I put the function? Use staticmethod. It's a normal function with class namespace. --Inyeol -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Are Lists thread safe?
On Mar 9, 1:03 pm, abcd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are lists thread safe? Or do I have to use a Lock when modifying the list (adding, removing, etc)? Can you point me to some documentation on this? thanks Yes there are still some holes which can bite you. Adding and removing is thread safe but don't treat the list as locked between operations unless you specifically do your own locking. You still need to be on the lookout for race conditions. Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
