Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Much about footwear depends on the culture doing the development. Northern 
Europeans developed shoes with arch support over time along with soles that 
kept the cold at bay. Without getting into the anthropology of it, my guess 
is they discovered on long treks that footwear that gave some arch support 
resulted in less foot fatigue. 

Societies not needing such cold weather protection wore simple sandals with 
no arch. Those societies developed muscles and ligaments from birth to keep 
the body fairly well aligned despite having flat feet. Put most modern 
people on footwear with no support and they can develop knee and hip pain 
due to alignment issues. 
.
FWIW, there were specialty shoe stores selling Scandanavian supportive 
shoes well before Nike came to be. I recall as a child that my dentist wore 
a pair of asymmetrical shoes. My mother was a nurse and some of her nurse 
friends wore Dansko and other similar supportive shoes. 

I will add my anecdotal observations from several weeks of hiking in Peru. 
Young porters carried 50 pounds packs wearing only sandals. Experienced 
porters wore hiking shoes (for which they had earned the money to 
purchase). No doubt folks trekking in Asia or Africa have seen similar 
episodes. 

As for floor living, I studied a Japanese martial art (aikido) for 20 
years, starting in my early 20s. At weekend seminars in other cities, we 
would sleep on the practice mats on the floor. Young bodies can adapt to 
sitting on knees and sleeping on the floor. When you grow up doing that, 
your body adapts along the way. However, as I became older, it became 
harder to sit that way for long. My knees started to ache from sitting that 
way as I aged into my 40s. My shoulders would ache from sleeping on the 
floor without a thick foam pad. 

We also did Japanese calligraphy, using desks designed for knee sitting, 
the desk top with a slight slope. As my daily job became more computer 
based, I developed issues from prolonged desk and chair sitting. We had 
really nice, expensive computer chairs but problems can still develop over 
time from repeated motions. For home computer use, I built a low table 
similar to the calligraphy table and bought a Japanese sitting bench, which 
allows the feet to be under your rear-end but with your weight on the 
bench. Such a sitting position, just a modified form of knee sitting, 
forces one to have good posture and keep spine alignment over the hips. The 
position calls for good core muscles to keep it all together. 

Despite societies that knee sit from childhood onward, people still develop 
knee, ankle, hip and back issues. Maybe not to the same degree as Western 
chair based societies, but the human body can only take so much before 
things start to wear out! Listen to what your body needs and work with 
that, regardless of cultural norms. 

I'm glad my culture includes bicycles!

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell who always takes a nap on the floor 



On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 2:30:46 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I should also point out, Lee, that wearing minimalist shoes or going 
> barefoot (which requires its own transition) is a core part of floor 
> living. Our feet weren't engineered to be cushioned, supported, formed, and 
> imprisoned, let alone have an artificially raised heel (as nearly all 
> standard shoes do). High heels wreck proper posture and body mechanics.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 11:52:19 AM UTC-6, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> Just out of curiosity Deacon because I was thinking of doing something 
>> similar to that in terms of a table and trying to live more simply.  Can 
>> you hook me up with books, youtube video's or resources on this kind of 
>> floor living?  I still have a bed and mattress that I am attached to so I 
>> do not think I will give those up but if I can live more on the floor like 
>> having a lounging kind of chair or table to each, I think that would be 
>> cool.  It is interesting you said something about posture.  I was having 
>> some pains in my neck that seem to happen because of the chair I was 
>> sitting in at work.  The only way I could relieve that pain was thru 
>> getting up and more exercise to strengthen the back.  I am wondering if 
>> squatting and living on the floor will help with that as well.
>>
>> Thanks Deacon
>>
>> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:
>>
>>> Lee, floor living is living without chairs or a modern bed/mattress. My 
>>> computer is at a kneeling desk. I am either sitting cross-legged, kneeling, 
>>> squatting, standing, walking, or running. Bed is a few wool blankets made 
>>> into a pad on the wood floor. Why?I started because of my brain injury, and 
>>> everyone in our family followed at first because it was weird me on the 
>>> floor and them not, but also because they also experience the vast 
>>> improvements in posture, core strength, lithe and limberness.  Everything 
>>> in my body moves more fluidly. Help

[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[John Bokman]

Loved the old Rambouillet orange and the first generation Sam orange, but 
have not yet warmed to the new Sam orange, which looks more like a dull 
pumpkin orange to me. I'd not get tired of a really nice orange. Nor would 
I get tired of a really nice racing green, like some of the Riv customs 
I've seen. I think the blue hues would die for me first.

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 8:29:44 PM UTC-7, Nick Payne wrote:
>
> Tout passe, tout casse, tout lasse. But in spite of that French saying, 
> I've had an orange Riv custom for the past 16 years or so and the colour 
> hasn't yet palled:
>
> 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[Nick Payne]

Tout passe, tout casse, tout lasse. But in spite of that French saying, 
I've had an orange Riv custom for the past 16 years or so and the colour 
hasn't yet palled:



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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Depends on the shade of orange. Burnt orange (darkish, like the Harley 
orange) gets old for me. The old Chevy Camaro orange looked great at first 
but bland after the proverbial thousand days of sun. Even Eddie's Molteni 
orange loses its luster over time. Brighter oranges not so much due to a 
greater amount of yellow pigment. Though with weathering and sun fade, most 
colors can soon look dull. 

Colors with depth seem to be the most enlightening. Orange metallic pearl. 
Celeste metallic pearl. Light blue metallic pearl. You get the idea. It 
takes layers of spraying to get such color depth, but such colors keep on 
giving.

I've always liked the orange Riv uses and wondered what color number it is 
(RAL, Pantone, etc.).

Cheers,
Bill in very not-orange Roswell, GA



On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 3:19:02 PM UTC-4, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Obviously a highly subjective question, but I like hearing the opinions on 
> this board. The question: for long-term owners of orange bikes, do you find 
> yourself getting sick of orange after a while, more so than with other 
> colors? 
>

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[RBW] Re: New Chev

[Antone Könst]

Kai, you know Bridget?! She's the coolest! Also, I think I saw your mustard 
Clem once at Mana, am I right?

I had a feeling my rack should be lower, which also means I should shorten the 
Wald basket struts I guess, by chopping them up?

Would it make sense to return my 8Pack (unwitting guy at 718 Cycles sold it to 
me with the assurance it would work on my Chev...which it doesn't quite but I 
installed just to get going with my commute again)? Maybe something I can also 
hang my panniers on, so I'm not sacrificing strength - the little Nitto mini 
racks riv sells aren't rated for enough weight and I only want a front or back 
rack on my commuter at a time. Any ideas people?

René, glad you like the painting and the bike! It IS beautiful, even with the 
tape and stray chords flopping around.  

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[RBW] Re: PSA: 60cm Quickbeam on eBay

[Neil]

Quickbeam is SOLD! Thanks for everyone's interest.

On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 8:44:00 AM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/rivendell-quickbeam-singlespeed-bicycle-60-cm-nitto-phil-wood-honjo-brooks-/391772091525
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Patrick Moore]

?

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 7:53 PM, Lee Legrand  wrote:

> Chill
>
> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> For the record: I was not trying, nor am I trying, nor will I try to
>> refute Patrick's habits and experience. I am trying, and will be trying,
>> and have been trying, to state only what I state I am trying, will be
>> trying, and have been trying to state. No more, no less.
>>
>> And that is: that many things work for many people, and that many things
>> have worked for people across the millennia, and that one size hardly fits
>> all.
>>
>> Oh, and that so much "popular" science is just popular, not science.
>>
>> Patrick "and I'm not being defensive, either" Moore, who is trying to sit
>> cross legged more in order to loosen the hell up!
>>
>> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Deacon Patrick 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The beauty of simple is it's simple to try for yourself and decide from
>>> experience. The challenge of simple is it's very difficult to achieve given
>>> the level of "noise" -- so it is easy to think we've tried it and rejected
>>> it when really we haven't.
>>>
>>> With abandon and sardonic grins at the abandon and sardonic grins,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 6:10:14 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

 Damn, I meant, + 1 for what *David Parsons* said. Sheesh!

>>> --
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *30% Supply and Demand discount, listmembers only, on all resume,
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>>
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
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>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>> 
>> 
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Lee Legrand]

Chill

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> For the record: I was not trying, nor am I trying, nor will I try to
> refute Patrick's habits and experience. I am trying, and will be trying,
> and have been trying, to state only what I state I am trying, will be
> trying, and have been trying to state. No more, no less.
>
> And that is: that many things work for many people, and that many things
> have worked for people across the millennia, and that one size hardly fits
> all.
>
> Oh, and that so much "popular" science is just popular, not science.
>
> Patrick "and I'm not being defensive, either" Moore, who is trying to sit
> cross legged more in order to loosen the hell up!
>
> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:
>
>> The beauty of simple is it's simple to try for yourself and decide from
>> experience. The challenge of simple is it's very difficult to achieve given
>> the level of "noise" -- so it is easy to think we've tried it and rejected
>> it when really we haven't.
>>
>> With abandon and sardonic grins at the abandon and sardonic grins,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 6:10:14 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> Damn, I meant, + 1 for what *David Parsons* said. Sheesh!
>>>
>> --
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *30% Supply and Demand discount, listmembers only, on all resume,
> LinkedIn, and writing services, until Demand equals Supply! And there's
> more! 10% kickback for any referral resulting in fully paid, list-price
> contract. And still more!  I am offering services in trade for a road bike,
> or frame and parts, that are period compatible with my AM hub, circa 1937
> to 1961. See my website for what I do and what I charge; email for details.*
>
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
>
>
>
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[RBW] WTB Map Ahearne Bar

[Andrew Huston]

Prefer the 610mm version in silver. Thanks

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Patrick Moore]

For the record: I was not trying, nor am I trying, nor will I try to refute
Patrick's habits and experience. I am trying, and will be trying, and have
been trying, to state only what I state I am trying, will be trying, and
have been trying to state. No more, no less.

And that is: that many things work for many people, and that many things
have worked for people across the millennia, and that one size hardly fits
all.

Oh, and that so much "popular" science is just popular, not science.

Patrick "and I'm not being defensive, either" Moore, who is trying to sit
cross legged more in order to loosen the hell up!

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> The beauty of simple is it's simple to try for yourself and decide from
> experience. The challenge of simple is it's very difficult to achieve given
> the level of "noise" -- so it is easy to think we've tried it and rejected
> it when really we haven't.
>
> With abandon and sardonic grins at the abandon and sardonic grins,
> Patrick
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 6:10:14 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Damn, I meant, + 1 for what *David Parsons* said. Sheesh!
>>
> --
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>



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Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
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**
**

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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[chris feczko]

Not a Riv but a fairly recent purchase of a 92' rock lobster mtb is very 
well liked and looks really good all the time!





Chris F


Sunnyside, NY

On Thursday, 4 May 2017 15:19:02 UTC-4, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Obviously a highly subjective question, but I like hearing the opinions on 
> this board. The question: for long-term owners of orange bikes, do you find 
> yourself getting sick of orange after a while, more so than with other 
> colors? 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Deacon Patrick]

The beauty of simple is it's simple to try for yourself and decide from 
experience. The challenge of simple is it's very difficult to achieve given 
the level of "noise" -- so it is easy to think we've tried it and rejected 
it when really we haven't.

With abandon and sardonic grins at the abandon and sardonic grins,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 6:10:14 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Damn, I meant, + 1 for what *David Parsons* said. Sheesh!
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Patrick Moore]

Damn, I meant, + 1 for what *David Parsons* said. Sheesh!

Apparently, attention to detail has been evolved out of my constitution.

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 6:01 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> +1 to what Lee said.
>
> Just to add a very general comment on human ways of living: My own
> practical principle is that, if people ate, sat, worked, believed, fought,
> loved, raised children, and so forth in certain ways for milennia, then
> there's a very good chance that these modes are natural and allow humans to
> thrive, at least to a good extent. To believe in this principle means to
> rigorously jettison much of what popularized science "tells" us about our
> pre-historic and even pre-modern ancestors, but that's not intellectually
> or emotionally hard at all, frankly, so much of popularized science being
> in the cruel term "Just So Stories."
>
> I also believe that some ancient ways are probably healthier in certain
> ways than other ancient ways; you never can have it all. But I recall an
> old Time Life book on Health that I bought 25 years ago from Goodwill;
> there was a section comparing and contrasting foreign and US, and ancient
> and modern, ways of living. The authors showed a photo of an 80-year-old
> African villager striding along smoking a pipe; she was slender and erect
> and, from the photo, vigorous. The authors said that rural peoples,
> nomadic, pastoral, or agricultural, generally lived fully long and, what's
> more, healthy lives, as long as they avoided serious injury.
>
> OTOH, an particularly eloquent, and sad, comment by Kunstler from last
> week (I don't by any means buy into all that Kunstler promotes; just take
> this text on its own merits:
>
> "life in the United States has become unspeakably depressing, empty,
> and purposeless for a large class of citizens.
>
>  You can read it in the bodies of the people in the new town square,
> i.e. the supermarket: people prematurely old, fattened and sickened by bad
> food made to look and taste irresistible to con those sunk in despair, a
> deadly consolation for lives otherwise filled by empty hours, trash
> television, addictive computer games, and their own family melodramas
> concocted to give some narrative meaning to lives otherwise bereft of event
> or effort."
>
> Now I believe that many of these prematurely worn out "deplorables", sad
> sacks that they are, are humanly better than many of the "elite" -- and
> what a fucked up term that is! I mean, just because someone is rich and
> polished doesn't mean he's not a shit. "[M]eet it is I set it down,That one
> may smile, and smile, and be a villain."
>
> So millennia of Inuit and Masai have thrived on protein and fat, while
> millennia of Japanese and Filipinos have thrived on white rice. And
> millennia of Tibetans have thrived living on rugs, while millennia of
> Mediterraneans have thrived sitting in chairs. There's no one sole recipe.
>
> Which reminds me of 2 very touching stories, both biographical or based on
> biography: first, "L'enfant Noir" by Camara Laye, written in homesickness
> as he studied mechanics of some sort in the 1950s, and describing his
> traditional upbringing -- his father came from the metallurgist caste -- in
> what is now Guinea.
>
> The other is a book I found in the Gallup Public Library and haven't seen
> since, by a rural West African who became fascinated by the Inuit a boy and
> left his country as a young man to travel to, and live among, the Inuit of
> Greenland, being adopted by them as one of themselves.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_African_in_Greenland
>
> Now there's a study in the vast range of human possibilities!
>
> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Orc  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 2:16:45 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, there is a alot of stuff on the internet about living simple and
>>> getting back into natural predisposition in terms of food, clothing and
>>> health.  Like the Paleo diet or barefoot shoes, or sitting on the floor
>>> instead of chairs and natural clothing.  You must have seen stuff like this
>>> on the web and similar
>>>
>>
>> There's a lot of stuff like this on the web, yes, but with citations that
>> pass the laugh test?  Not so much.
>>
>> Humans are a pretty adaptable species;  we're also pretty good at
>> convincing ourselves that the way we live right now is the way humans were
>> designed to live.   I do most of my brazing & wheelbuilding whilst sitting
>> on the floor, but I'm not sure what benefit I get from doing that aside
>> from being motivated to sweep the floor more often.
>>
>>


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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Patrick Moore]

+1 to what Lee said.

Just to add a very general comment on human ways of living: My own
practical principle is that, if people ate, sat, worked, believed, fought,
loved, raised children, and so forth in certain ways for milennia, then
there's a very good chance that these modes are natural and allow humans to
thrive, at least to a good extent. To believe in this principle means to
rigorously jettison much of what popularized science "tells" us about our
pre-historic and even pre-modern ancestors, but that's not intellectually
or emotionally hard at all, frankly, so much of popularized science being
in the cruel term "Just So Stories."

I also believe that some ancient ways are probably healthier in certain
ways than other ancient ways; you never can have it all. But I recall an
old Time Life book on Health that I bought 25 years ago from Goodwill;
there was a section comparing and contrasting foreign and US, and ancient
and modern, ways of living. The authors showed a photo of an 80-year-old
African villager striding along smoking a pipe; she was slender and erect
and, from the photo, vigorous. The authors said that rural peoples,
nomadic, pastoral, or agricultural, generally lived fully long and, what's
more, healthy lives, as long as they avoided serious injury.

OTOH, an particularly eloquent, and sad, comment by Kunstler from last week
(I don't by any means buy into all that Kunstler promotes; just take this
text on its own merits:

"life in the United States has become unspeakably depressing, empty,
and purposeless for a large class of citizens.

 You can read it in the bodies of the people in the new town square,
i.e. the supermarket: people prematurely old, fattened and sickened by bad
food made to look and taste irresistible to con those sunk in despair, a
deadly consolation for lives otherwise filled by empty hours, trash
television, addictive computer games, and their own family melodramas
concocted to give some narrative meaning to lives otherwise bereft of event
or effort."

Now I believe that many of these prematurely worn out "deplorables", sad
sacks that they are, are humanly better than many of the "elite" -- and
what a fucked up term that is! I mean, just because someone is rich and
polished doesn't mean he's not a shit. "[M]eet it is I set it down,That one
may smile, and smile, and be a villain."

So millennia of Inuit and Masai have thrived on protein and fat, while
millennia of Japanese and Filipinos have thrived on white rice. And
millennia of Tibetans have thrived living on rugs, while millennia of
Mediterraneans have thrived sitting in chairs. There's no one sole recipe.

Which reminds me of 2 very touching stories, both biographical or based on
biography: first, "L'enfant Noir" by Camara Laye, written in homesickness
as he studied mechanics of some sort in the 1950s, and describing his
traditional upbringing -- his father came from the metallurgist caste -- in
what is now Guinea.

The other is a book I found in the Gallup Public Library and haven't seen
since, by a rural West African who became fascinated by the Inuit a boy and
left his country as a young man to travel to, and live among, the Inuit of
Greenland, being adopted by them as one of themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_African_in_Greenland

Now there's a study in the vast range of human possibilities!

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Orc  wrote:

>
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 2:16:45 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> Well, there is a alot of stuff on the internet about living simple and
>> getting back into natural predisposition in terms of food, clothing and
>> health.  Like the Paleo diet or barefoot shoes, or sitting on the floor
>> instead of chairs and natural clothing.  You must have seen stuff like this
>> on the web and similar
>>
>
> There's a lot of stuff like this on the web, yes, but with citations that
> pass the laugh test?  Not so much.
>
> Humans are a pretty adaptable species;  we're also pretty good at
> convincing ourselves that the way we live right now is the way humans were
> designed to live.   I do most of my brazing & wheelbuilding whilst sitting
> on the floor, but I'm not sure what benefit I get from doing that aside
> from being motivated to sweep the floor more often.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: The Siren Call of Sapphire Shopsacks

[Bill Lindsay]

The Sapphire Sacks will not be going on my Blue Rosco.  I'm waiting on a 
new Atlantis from Waterford.  It's taking forever because they didn't have 
the chainstays, I'm told.  Maybe by June 1st it will arrive.  It'll end up 
being a 6 month wait, but I've got plenty of bikes.  I wanted a non-seafoam 
color, but I didn't want to spend a ton of extra money.  Will showed me a 
Waterford page of their standard paint colors.  The upcharge was small.  I 
chose a dark metallic grey, inspired years ago by Pudge's metallic grey 
Atlantis.  I think the Sapphire will look great on a metallic grey Atlantis.

BL in EC

On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 1:25:56 PM UTC-7, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
> aren't you putting these on your blue Rosco?seems like that night work
>
> or the blue would be nice with the Atlantis if your Atlantis is the 
> standard sea-foam colour
>
> On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 4:19:05 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> I got my Blue Shopsack just now, smelling strongly of Pine Tar soap, 
>> which I ordered at the same time.  Now I'm set for my Sapphire accessory 
>> kit for my next "cool" colorway bike build.  
>>
>> As predicted, they are already down to three remaining blue ShopSacks. 
>>  So don't wait too long, if you are sure you need one.  
>>
>> Bill Old-Blue Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Monday, April 24, 2017 at 6:57:35 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> I ordered my Sapphire Medium Shopsack on Friday. There are only 8 left, 
>>> so they probably won't last through the week. 
>>>
>>> I think of olive and tan as "warms". Grey and Sapphire are "cools".  If 
>>> you've got a bike with a cool colorway, it's nice to have a complementary 
>>> bag.  I've got a bunch of olive and now a couple Sapphire so I have both 
>>> covered
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay 
>>> El Cerrito Ca
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Orc]

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 2:16:45 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
> Well, there is a alot of stuff on the internet about living simple and 
> getting back into natural predisposition in terms of food, clothing and 
> health.  Like the Paleo diet or barefoot shoes, or sitting on the floor 
> instead of chairs and natural clothing.  You must have seen stuff like this 
> on the web and similar
>

There's a lot of stuff like this on the web, yes, but with citations that 
pass the laugh test?  Not so much.

Humans are a pretty adaptable species;  we're also pretty good at 
convincing ourselves that the way we live right now is the way humans were 
designed to live.   I do most of my brazing & wheelbuilding whilst sitting 
on the floor, but I'm not sure what benefit I get from doing that aside 
from being motivated to sweep the floor more often.

-david parsons

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[RBW] Re: The Siren Call of Sapphire Shopsacks

[REC]

So stylish!  I love it!


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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Bill Lindsay]

Orc presented the syllogism:

*Since* humans have been wearing foot coverings for >10,000 years
and* since* humans still wear foot coverings

*then* humans aren't designed to go barefoot

If that holds, then we should add:

*Since* humans have been smoking for >10,000 years
and* since* humans still smoke

*then* humans aren't designed to be non-smokers

and

*Since* humans have been intoxicating themselves by consuming fermented 
sugars for >1 million years
and* since* humans still booze it up

*then* humans aren't designed to be sober

with abandon and sardonic grin
Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA


On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 2:10:02 PM UTC-7, Orc wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 1:28:46 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> Maybe wearing shoes of some sort but I think you are rushing to discredit 
>> him a little to quickly Orc.
>>
>
> I'm not so much trying to discredit him as trying to see where that 
> argument even comes from.  There have been awful shoes out there, but the 
> awful designs don't last and people are still wearing shoes, which seems to 
> contradict the argument by design.
>
>
> -david parsons
>

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[RBW] Re: Single Speed Sam on Blug

[Bill Lindsay]

Blast from the past.  Haha.

They did make it right.  Alex's Cycles was very kind about their mistake. 
 They gave me the choice of:

a.  they send me the complete rack that I ordered and pay the return 
shipping for the partial rack I didn't order
or
b. they send me the complete rack that I ordered, and send me the lowriders 
for the rear, and sell me the complete rear at a "low price"

I chose (b.) but I don't remember the "low price".  Soon after that, 
somebody on one of the lists needed the rear complete rack, and I passed 
along the "low price" so he was happy, and I was no worse off.  

I love the front rack.  I might be buying another copy soon.  I've chosen 
to only run rectangular panniers like are intended to go on it.  Some 
people run 'normal' panniers on this rack I think, but I do not.  I have 
the Ostrich ones that I bought in this thread, and I just recently picked 
up a pair of Carradice ones from a listmember.  I may have Ruthworks make 
me a set someday.  There's always the $530 Berthoud's from Compass as 
well

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 3:46:52 PM UTC-7, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> Hey Bill, thinking about placing this order myself...27F rack from Alex 
> Cycles...did they ever make it right with you, and how was the process?
>
> And related...how do you like the rack?
>
> On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 11:37:31 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Dangit!  Nothing ever works out! 
>>
>> The good news:  My box just arrived.  Intact and everything 
>> More good news:  My Ostrich DLX panniers are present and accounted for
>>
>> The bad news:  They shipped me the wrong rack!  I ordered a Nitto 27F 
>> front rack with detachable lowriders.  They shipped the 27R rear rack and 
>> didn't even bother to ship the lowriders.  
>>
>> Hopefully they'll take care of it in an equitable way.  I sent a message 
>> through their site, but dang it, that's frustrating for an international 
>> order.  
>>
>> Bill majorly-bummed Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 7:45:25 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> "I know that may sound like a hyperbolic comparison, since I'm just a 
>>> dude waiting for some pine tar soap and a John's Irish strap to his my 
>>> porch, and those guys were like, in OUTER SPACE careening around in a 
>>> broken vessel, but, hey, that's how it feels TO ME! Know what I mean? "
>>>
>>> My shipment has landed in San Francisco, according to the tracking 
>>> number!  I'm reaching my grabby hands to the west.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 3:42:12 PM UTC-7, Alan Pickett wrote:

 Bill, i hope and believe that your goodies will arrive unscathed and in 
 this lifetime. It actually sounds like sort of fun order to track as it 
 makes it's way around the globe. From here in MD, I always obsessively 
 check my Riv orders as they go from San Ramon, Oakland, then San Pablo, 
 whereupon they disappear for a few days before popping back up in Laurel, 
 Maryland. It reminds me of Apollo 13 when they are on the dark side of the 
 moon and out of radio contact, and everybody's just holding their breath.

 I know that may sound like a hyperbolic comparison, since I'm just a 
 dude waiting for some pine tar soap and a John's Irish strap to his my 
 porch, and those guys were like, in OUTER SPACE careening around in a 
 broken vessel, but, hey, that's how it feels TO ME! Know what I mean? 


 Alan "who has been known to press "refresh" on the UPS tracker website 
 an unhealthy number of times"  in Silver Spring

 On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 3:54:55 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> I called and asked about this rack as well when I saw it in the 
> brochure.  I had Dave on the phone, and he said "maybe it's still around, 
> I'll have a look".  Now I have something to razz him about, since it 
> looks 
> like he "had a look" and kept it for himself!  
>
> Speaking of the 27F, I did go ahead and order a real 27F, with 
> detachable lowriders and all, from Alex's Cycle in Japan.  For some 
> reason 
> I was/am nervous/anxious about actually getting stuff from a vendor in 
> Japan.  I don't know why I'm nervous, but I am.  I placed the order on 
> the 
> 8th, and now I have a tracking number and I can my order has made it to 
> Osaka.  I ordered a 27F rack plus a pair of Ostrich DLX panniers.  
>
>
> On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 12:26:34 PM UTC-7, Alan Pickett wrote:
>>
>> I called and spoke to Jared about this rack, after seeing it on the 
>> blug back on August 20th (on a cheviot) and he confirmed that it was a 
>> sample 27f without the low rider attachments. I think it can also be 
>> seen 
>> in the Cheviot brochure, in the page showing a touring set up. 
>>
>> I would buy this rack as a sturdier side-pull front than the mark's, 
>> which I have and ap

Re: [RBW] Re: The Hubbuhubbuhs are here!

[Bill Lindsay]

Haha.  I called Will and had a little guilt-therapy.  He said come on by, 
so I'll drive by and pick up my SMALL Sage tomorrow morning.  

BL in EC

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 3:28:51 PM UTC-7, René wrote:
>
> Let's see how long you can hold off... :-)
>
> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 3:24 PM Bill Lindsay  > wrote:
>
>> Yeah I'm torn.  I'm super excited to go pick mine up, but I'm wracked 
>> with bike shop guilt about Mark and Brian's stress level trying to make 
>> everybody happy.  I kind of feel like staying out of their way for a couple 
>> weeks to let the dust settle.  On the other hand, I really like doing 
>> builds and showing them off.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: The Siren Call of Sapphire Shopsacks

[Jon Dukeman]

I'm speechless.😄👍🚲🙊💙😄

On May 4, 2017 4:26 PM, "LeahFoy"  wrote:

> On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 6:25:14 AM UTC-7, twin wrote:
> > On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 10:11:47 AM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote:Twin, will
> you send us a photo?
>
> Got my SapphireSack back from the luggage repair guy today. I also added
> these nifty s-binders which I think are genius.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New Chev

[René Sterental]

Nice painting! I like it.

Do you really think that black tape is going to deter any thieves? That
bike looks gorgeous as it is right now!

René

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 2:14 PM Kai Vierstra  wrote:

> Any friend of Bridget Mullen is a friend of mine...
> Nice bike!, but that rack and pup need to get lower, right? I don't think
> you'll get it from those riv approved braze ons, what you need are some
> p-clamps. They're easy to use and they make your bike look even less
> desirable to thieves.
> You take the water taxi a lot?
> -Kai
> BK NY
>
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 2:53:13 PM UTC-4, Antone Könst wrote:
>>
>> Got my dream frame, 60 orange chevy, from Clayton a few weeks ago.  He
>> did a great job packing and shipping BTW>
>>
>> Been riding like a dream, even with all the cheap parts from my faux-riv
>> Nishiki build and ugly electrical tape (there intentionally bad, to deter
>> thieves).   Paul Racers and Thumbies, and the dynamo hub and lights in
>> front and back are the exception there.
>>
>> One weird thing is the Surly 8-Pack I put on there...the Wald struts and
>> a shoelace help keep it in place since there isn't anything besides the
>> mid-fork mount keeping it horizontal otherwise...probably will engineer one
>> tho since I've been putting my puppy upfront for the 5 mile ride to my
>> studio along the East River.  She hates it, BTW, any tips on dogs on a bike
>> are welcome!
>>
>> Other image is a painting I made, Night Rider, up now at Hometown Gallery
>> in Brooklyn.  Just thought this group might appreciate it :)
>>
>> I love this bike, it makes me happy every day.
>>
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[RBW] Re: Single Speed Sam on Blug

[Neil Doran]

Hey Bill, thinking about placing this order myself...27F rack from Alex 
Cycles...did they ever make it right with you, and how was the process?

And related...how do you like the rack?

On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 11:37:31 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Dangit!  Nothing ever works out! 
>
> The good news:  My box just arrived.  Intact and everything 
> More good news:  My Ostrich DLX panniers are present and accounted for
>
> The bad news:  They shipped me the wrong rack!  I ordered a Nitto 27F 
> front rack with detachable lowriders.  They shipped the 27R rear rack and 
> didn't even bother to ship the lowriders.  
>
> Hopefully they'll take care of it in an equitable way.  I sent a message 
> through their site, but dang it, that's frustrating for an international 
> order.  
>
> Bill majorly-bummed Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 7:45:25 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> "I know that may sound like a hyperbolic comparison, since I'm just a 
>> dude waiting for some pine tar soap and a John's Irish strap to his my 
>> porch, and those guys were like, in OUTER SPACE careening around in a 
>> broken vessel, but, hey, that's how it feels TO ME! Know what I mean? "
>>
>> My shipment has landed in San Francisco, according to the tracking 
>> number!  I'm reaching my grabby hands to the west.
>>
>> On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 3:42:12 PM UTC-7, Alan Pickett wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill, i hope and believe that your goodies will arrive unscathed and in 
>>> this lifetime. It actually sounds like sort of fun order to track as it 
>>> makes it's way around the globe. From here in MD, I always obsessively 
>>> check my Riv orders as they go from San Ramon, Oakland, then San Pablo, 
>>> whereupon they disappear for a few days before popping back up in Laurel, 
>>> Maryland. It reminds me of Apollo 13 when they are on the dark side of the 
>>> moon and out of radio contact, and everybody's just holding their breath.
>>>
>>> I know that may sound like a hyperbolic comparison, since I'm just a 
>>> dude waiting for some pine tar soap and a John's Irish strap to his my 
>>> porch, and those guys were like, in OUTER SPACE careening around in a 
>>> broken vessel, but, hey, that's how it feels TO ME! Know what I mean? 
>>>
>>>
>>> Alan "who has been known to press "refresh" on the UPS tracker website 
>>> an unhealthy number of times"  in Silver Spring
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 3:54:55 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:

 I called and asked about this rack as well when I saw it in the 
 brochure.  I had Dave on the phone, and he said "maybe it's still around, 
 I'll have a look".  Now I have something to razz him about, since it looks 
 like he "had a look" and kept it for himself!  

 Speaking of the 27F, I did go ahead and order a real 27F, with 
 detachable lowriders and all, from Alex's Cycle in Japan.  For some reason 
 I was/am nervous/anxious about actually getting stuff from a vendor in 
 Japan.  I don't know why I'm nervous, but I am.  I placed the order on the 
 8th, and now I have a tracking number and I can my order has made it to 
 Osaka.  I ordered a 27F rack plus a pair of Ostrich DLX panniers.  


 On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 12:26:34 PM UTC-7, Alan Pickett wrote:
>
> I called and spoke to Jared about this rack, after seeing it on the 
> blug back on August 20th (on a cheviot) and he confirmed that it was a 
> sample 27f without the low rider attachments. I think it can also be seen 
> in the Cheviot brochure, in the page showing a touring set up. 
>
> I would buy this rack as a sturdier side-pull front than the mark's, 
> which I have and appreciate!



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Re: [RBW] Re: The Hubbuhubbuhs are here!

[LeahFoy]

Somebody swing through my neighborhood on your new HubbahHubbah! I feel like 
jumping on the back and sharing in the fun!!! 

The colors look gorgeous and I can barely wait to see all the photos of you and 
your cute spouses/best friends/teenage kiddos on your new 
once-in-a-lifetime-Rivs. I've never ever been so eager to see how a Rivendell 
will come out, when it's all built and accessorized. So. Fun.

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Re: [RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[René Sterental]

I have blue in my Homer (now my son's, just so I can keep it around for a
while), light blue in the Cheviot (love it), Atlantis green, so unique I
could never have it repainted any different, silver in my custom, and now
creamsickle orange in the Hubbuhubbuh, which for a very long while I
debated based on the same concern. I don't like the muted orange, love the
Apaloosa mustard yellow, like the Hillborne's gray, don't particularly like
the Hubbuhubbuh's dark blue, and not sure about the sage, although I think
I like it. Oh, and I like the British racing green, but it bored me very
quickly on the Bombadil when I had it. Didn't like the gray/plum original
Hunqapillar, but liked it better when I repainted it Pewter.

So... no rules on colors is the rule!

René

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 2:51 PM reynoldslugs  wrote:

> thanks Ryan, but those three Cielo's are not mine - I posted them as a
> favor to the boys in the shop.
>
> If anyone wants an very nice deal on a pretty blue Cielo, Nor Cal is
> asking $2k for this one - well built, with matching fenders:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/albums/72157674119413261
>
>
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 2:45:09 PM UTC-7, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>>
>> You certainly have a stunning collection of bikes there and , amazingly,
>> it looks like you ride them all. Sheesh I didn't count them
>>
>>
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[RBW] Re: FS: 2007 NEW 56CM GREEN RAMBOUILLET FRAME/FORK (LATE MODEL #RB1100)

[rob markwardt]

Gunner's the best...buy with confidence.  I just received an old- school 9 
speed DuraAce wheelset from him and they were well packed and are beautiful 
(life's too short for ugly hubs!!).  

Thank you.  

On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 11:22:10 AM UTC-7, Gunner wrote:

> The new Rambouillet frame set is still available. In addition, for the 
> asking price I will include the new set of 700C H29 fluted Honjo fender 
> with all mounting hardware ($130.00 value) listed in my original post. 
> Additional pictures available upon request.
>
> On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 1:26:03 PM UTC-4, Gunner wrote:
>>
>> *FOR SALE: NEW 2007 56CM. GREEN RAMBOUILLET FRAME/ FORK/ HEADSET/BOTTOM 
>> BRACKET. *
>>
>> I am the original owner. The frame was purchased new in 2007 from 
>> Rivendell Bike Works. The frame has never been built up and it is in new 
>> condition.  The serial number is (RB1100)  
>>
>> $1450.00
>>
>> Buyer will pay actual shipping charges. I will pay to have the frame/fork 
>> professionally packed at my local bike shop.
>>
>> In addition, If interested I would consider selling the following 
>> components/parts (new/never installed) originally purchased for this 
>> Rambouillet build:
>>
>> 1. New Dura Ace 7700 series 32/36 9 speed, Mavic 700C MA-3 silver rims, 
>> Wheelsmith DB14 spokes (built by Peter White)
>>
>> 2. (4) Ruffy Tuffy 700C kevlar bead tires
>>
>>
>> 3. Set of Honjo Fenders including all accessories
>>
>> 4. Set of Shimano R600 Brake Calipers (Dura Ace quality)
>>
>> Thank you for your consideration
>>
>> (Additional pictures available upon request)
>>
>>
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: The Siren Call of Sapphire Shopsacks

[René Sterental]

Nice!!!

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 3:26 PM LeahFoy  wrote:

> On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 6:25:14 AM UTC-7, twin wrote:
> > On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 10:11:47 AM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote:Twin, will
> you send us a photo?
>
> Got my SapphireSack back from the luggage repair guy today. I also added
> these nifty s-binders which I think are genius.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: The Hubbuhubbuhs are here!

[René Sterental]

Let's see how long you can hold off... :-)

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 3:24 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Yeah I'm torn.  I'm super excited to go pick mine up, but I'm wracked with
> bike shop guilt about Mark and Brian's stress level trying to make
> everybody happy.  I kind of feel like staying out of their way for a couple
> weeks to let the dust settle.  On the other hand, I really like doing
> builds and showing them off.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 3:03:27 PM UTC-7, Julian Westerhout wrote:
>>
>> Waahoo!   I'll hope and pretend you saw a flurry of packing and shipping
>> of them to those of us not fortunate enough to live near the mothership!
>>
>> Is the orange in the photo accurate? I ask because the blue and sage look
>> off. If you get a chance to photograph yours in real light and post it that
>> would be great.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Julian Westerhout
>> Bloomington, Il
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 4:48:03 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>>>
>>> I drive up today to pick up my Medium Orange frame, Silver crankset,
>>> special Bosco bars my 40 spoked custome Rich built wheels and a few extra
>>> parts. As usual, Vince, Grant, Mark, Rich and everyone else were super
>>> nice, and even though the frames were just delivered yesterday, the
>>> accommodated my eagerness and anticipation and prepped the frame while I
>>> was waiting.
>>>
>>> I'm still waiting on the polished Motolites, which should ship out next
>>> week at the latest and will enjoy building it slowly to savor every moment.
>>> There will be numerous asks for my wife to give her feedback so she feels
>>> she also owns it, such as blue vs. white vs. gray cables, blue vs. silver
>>> pedals, grip types, etc. She needs to feel it's also hers so she starts
>>> enjoying it. And I promise I'll be very gentle and obey her every whim when
>>> she rides with me.
>>>
>>> As usual, I'll post photos of the progress of the build and the
>>> different options being considered.
>>>
>>> In the meantime, enjoy the first view of the Hubbuhubbuhs hanging in the
>>> showroom. One color is still not displayed.
>>> https://flickr.com/photos/25160594@N05/sets/72157680299609103
>>>
>>> Enjoy!
>>>
>>> René
>>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: The Hubbuhubbuhs are here!

[René Sterental]

Yes! There was a flurry of activity!!! :-)

I have to say that to my very pleasant surprise, the colors are accurate
and the orange frame is the bright creamsickle orange I was hoping for.  I
didn't really stop to compare the colors to the Blug posts, but they are
all very nice, at least the three that are hanging. The silver is beautiful
with the subdued cream accents, and the blue is more like a dark blue-gray.
The sage wasn't hanging, so I didn't see it.
So yes, consider the photos a pretty good representation of the actual
colors in the complete frames (although they still have a number of the
shipping protectors on. When mine gets home, and probably during the
weekend when I start doing some work on it, I'll post new photos both in
the sun and in the shade.

René

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 3:03 PM Julian Westerhout 
wrote:

> Waahoo!   I'll hope and pretend you saw a flurry of packing and shipping
> of them to those of us not fortunate enough to live near the mothership!
>
> Is the orange in the photo accurate? I ask because the blue and sage look
> off. If you get a chance to photograph yours in real light and post it that
> would be great.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, Il
>
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 4:48:03 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>>
>> I drive up today to pick up my Medium Orange frame, Silver crankset,
>> special Bosco bars my 40 spoked custome Rich built wheels and a few extra
>> parts. As usual, Vince, Grant, Mark, Rich and everyone else were super
>> nice, and even though the frames were just delivered yesterday, the
>> accommodated my eagerness and anticipation and prepped the frame while I
>> was waiting.
>>
>> I'm still waiting on the polished Motolites, which should ship out next
>> week at the latest and will enjoy building it slowly to savor every moment.
>> There will be numerous asks for my wife to give her feedback so she feels
>> she also owns it, such as blue vs. white vs. gray cables, blue vs. silver
>> pedals, grip types, etc. She needs to feel it's also hers so she starts
>> enjoying it. And I promise I'll be very gentle and obey her every whim when
>> she rides with me.
>>
>> As usual, I'll post photos of the progress of the build and the different
>> options being considered.
>>
>> In the meantime, enjoy the first view of the Hubbuhubbuhs hanging in the
>> showroom. One color is still not displayed.
>> https://flickr.com/photos/25160594@N05/sets/72157680299609103
>>
>> Enjoy!
>>
>> René
>>
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[RBW] Re: The Hubbuhubbuhs are here!

[Bill Lindsay]

Yeah I'm torn.  I'm super excited to go pick mine up, but I'm wracked with 
bike shop guilt about Mark and Brian's stress level trying to make 
everybody happy.  I kind of feel like staying out of their way for a couple 
weeks to let the dust settle.  On the other hand, I really like doing 
builds and showing them off.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 3:03:27 PM UTC-7, Julian Westerhout wrote:
>
> Waahoo!   I'll hope and pretend you saw a flurry of packing and shipping 
> of them to those of us not fortunate enough to live near the mothership! 
>
> Is the orange in the photo accurate? I ask because the blue and sage look 
> off. If you get a chance to photograph yours in real light and post it that 
> would be great. 
>
> Thanks, 
>
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, Il 
>
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 4:48:03 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>>
>> I drive up today to pick up my Medium Orange frame, Silver crankset, 
>> special Bosco bars my 40 spoked custome Rich built wheels and a few extra 
>> parts. As usual, Vince, Grant, Mark, Rich and everyone else were super 
>> nice, and even though the frames were just delivered yesterday, the 
>> accommodated my eagerness and anticipation and prepped the frame while I 
>> was waiting. 
>>
>> I'm still waiting on the polished Motolites, which should ship out next 
>> week at the latest and will enjoy building it slowly to savor every moment. 
>> There will be numerous asks for my wife to give her feedback so she feels 
>> she also owns it, such as blue vs. white vs. gray cables, blue vs. silver 
>> pedals, grip types, etc. She needs to feel it's also hers so she starts 
>> enjoying it. And I promise I'll be very gentle and obey her every whim when 
>> she rides with me. 
>>
>> As usual, I'll post photos of the progress of the build and the different 
>> options being considered. 
>>
>> In the meantime, enjoy the first view of the Hubbuhubbuhs hanging in the 
>> showroom. One color is still not displayed. 
>> https://flickr.com/photos/25160594@N05/sets/72157680299609103
>>
>> Enjoy!
>>
>> René 
>>
>

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[RBW] 2017 RAGBRAI

['Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch]

We may ride the Powderkeg from Clear Lake to Cresco, but we haven't committed 
yet. We rode the Santana in 2014 and I lost the desire to ever ride RAGBRAI 
again because of the heavy/slow bike traffic. Clear Lake is an awesome party 
town and the route is too close to home to not take advantage of. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Deacon Patrick]

Here's the Lieberman link: http://www.barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 4:14:20 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Great Question, Orc. I approach it from two perspectives. First, logic 
> dictates we didn't have Nike until 1964. Prior to that we had minimal 
> support and cushion in shoes, though certainly a long history of raised 
> heels and tight fit (especially for dress shoes and women's shoes). So, in 
> human evolution, we've been barefoot equivalent (adding various layers for 
> protection against element as needed). 2-4 million years. You might like 
> looking into Dr. Lieberman's work.
>
> Second, N=1. We are each our own experiment and when it comes to simple, 
> it ultimately comes down to living it to learn it. I "needed" prescription 
> orthotics since I was 12 because of weak, flat feet. I haven't needed them 
> since going barefoot or equivalent. It makes logical sense that the human 
> foot was designed to function without cushion or support and that when 
> allowed to work properly, muscles and mechanics strengthen and correct to 
> happen the way they are supposed to. People "need" support because their 
> feet are weak because they've had too much support in their shoes with 
> weakened their feet.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 1:25:30 PM UTC-6, Orc wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 11:30:46 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>>
>>>  Our feet weren't engineered to be cushioned, supported, formed, and 
>>> imprisoned
>>>
>>
>> Cite?   Humans have been wearing shoes for at least 10,000 years (and if 
>> the commentary on the net of a million lies is at all accurate, have been 
>> wearing shoes for considerably longer based on changes in toe bone 
>> thickness) which seems to run completely contrary to your argument?
>>
>> -david parsons
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Deacon Patrick]

Great Question, Orc. I approach it from two perspectives. First, logic 
dictates we didn't have Nike until 1964. Prior to that we had minimal 
support and cushion in shoes, though certainly a long history of raised 
heels and tight fit (especially for dress shoes and women's shoes). So, in 
human evolution, we've been barefoot equivalent (adding various layers for 
protection against element as needed). 2-4 million years. You might like 
looking into Dr. Lieberman's work.

Second, N=1. We are each our own experiment and when it comes to simple, it 
ultimately comes down to living it to learn it. I "needed" prescription 
orthotics since I was 12 because of weak, flat feet. I haven't needed them 
since going barefoot or equivalent. It makes logical sense that the human 
foot was designed to function without cushion or support and that when 
allowed to work properly, muscles and mechanics strengthen and correct to 
happen the way they are supposed to. People "need" support because their 
feet are weak because they've had too much support in their shoes with 
weakened their feet.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 1:25:30 PM UTC-6, Orc wrote:
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 11:30:46 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>>  Our feet weren't engineered to be cushioned, supported, formed, and 
>> imprisoned
>>
>
> Cite?   Humans have been wearing shoes for at least 10,000 years (and if 
> the commentary on the net of a million lies is at all accurate, have been 
> wearing shoes for considerably longer based on changes in toe bone 
> thickness) which seems to run completely contrary to your argument?
>
> -david parsons
>

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[RBW] Re: The Hubbuhubbuhs are here!

[Julian Westerhout]

Waahoo!   I'll hope and pretend you saw a flurry of packing and shipping of 
them to those of us not fortunate enough to live near the mothership! 

Is the orange in the photo accurate? I ask because the blue and sage look 
off. If you get a chance to photograph yours in real light and post it that 
would be great. 

Thanks, 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, Il 


On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 4:48:03 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>
> I drive up today to pick up my Medium Orange frame, Silver crankset, 
> special Bosco bars my 40 spoked custome Rich built wheels and a few extra 
> parts. As usual, Vince, Grant, Mark, Rich and everyone else were super 
> nice, and even though the frames were just delivered yesterday, the 
> accommodated my eagerness and anticipation and prepped the frame while I 
> was waiting. 
>
> I'm still waiting on the polished Motolites, which should ship out next 
> week at the latest and will enjoy building it slowly to savor every moment. 
> There will be numerous asks for my wife to give her feedback so she feels 
> she also owns it, such as blue vs. white vs. gray cables, blue vs. silver 
> pedals, grip types, etc. She needs to feel it's also hers so she starts 
> enjoying it. And I promise I'll be very gentle and obey her every whim when 
> she rides with me. 
>
> As usual, I'll post photos of the progress of the build and the different 
> options being considered. 
>
> In the meantime, enjoy the first view of the Hubbuhubbuhs hanging in the 
> showroom. One color is still not displayed. 
> https://flickr.com/photos/25160594@N05/sets/72157680299609103
>
> Enjoy!
>
> René 
>

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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[reynoldslugs]

thanks Ryan, but those three Cielo's are not mine - I posted them as a 
favor to the boys in the shop.

If anyone wants an very nice deal on a pretty blue Cielo, Nor Cal is asking 
$2k for this one - well built, with matching fenders:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/albums/72157674119413261



On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 2:45:09 PM UTC-7, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
> You certainly have a stunning collection of bikes there and , amazingly, 
> it looks like you ride them all. Sheesh I didn't count them
>
>
>

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[RBW] The Hubbuhubbuhs are here!

[René Sterental]

I drive up today to pick up my Medium Orange frame, Silver crankset,
special Bosco bars my 40 spoked custome Rich built wheels and a few extra
parts. As usual, Vince, Grant, Mark, Rich and everyone else were super
nice, and even though the frames were just delivered yesterday, the
accommodated my eagerness and anticipation and prepped the frame while I
was waiting.

I'm still waiting on the polished Motolites, which should ship out next
week at the latest and will enjoy building it slowly to savor every moment.
There will be numerous asks for my wife to give her feedback so she feels
she also owns it, such as blue vs. white vs. gray cables, blue vs. silver
pedals, grip types, etc. She needs to feel it's also hers so she starts
enjoying it. And I promise I'll be very gentle and obey her every whim when
she rides with me.

As usual, I'll post photos of the progress of the build and the different
options being considered.

In the meantime, enjoy the first view of the Hubbuhubbuhs hanging in the
showroom. One color is still not displayed.
https://flickr.com/photos/25160594@N05/sets/72157680299609103

Enjoy!

René

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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[Ryan Fleming]

You certainly have a stunning collection of bikes there and , amazingly, it 
looks like you ride them all. Sheesh I didn't count them

Me, only one orange bike...my 1993 Bridgestone X0-1 which I bought in Sept 
1993. Surprisingly the paint is not in bad nick

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 4:11:05 PM UTC-5, reynoldslugs wrote:
>
>
> Orange is a great color.  I ride an orange Rambouillet, a 1973 Paramount 
> in Kool Orange; a Merckx MX leader (Molteni orange), and an orange Ebisu. 
>  Each looks great ATMO, I love riding them and sure don't tire of the 
> color.  The  bright "kool orange" of the Paramount draws a lot of 
> compliments from the Eroica crowd.
>
> I like blue bikes, too.  And yellow and red ain't bad, either.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/albums/with/72157633988115199
>
> Max B
>

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[RBW] Re: Hub Area Rack, with non-Riv bags...can I?

[Jim S.]

1. Yes, the forward hook butts up against the hoop portion of the HAR. They 
are just a little bit too far apart. It still hooks, but you're hooking 
crookedly onto the hoop. It doesn't bother me too much because I can't see 
it when I'm riding - I have the Mark's rack and basket obscuring the view. 
Might drive me nuts to look at it.

2. No, I don't think one of the hooks on the Jr. Ranger bag could be 
re-positioned. But you might be handier than I am. Looking at the bag, and 
how the hooks are screwed in, I'm afraid to mess with it. I can envision 
the process. Unscrew the hook, and then put it through new holes that are 
closer together. If I attempt this, it'll come out crappy, and I'll be 
sorry I ever tried. Which is why I went with the less-elegant Arkel hooks.

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 4:31:41 PM UTC-5, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> Jim, thanks for the feedback! This is the precise combo I want, Jr Rangers 
> with the HAR.
>
> Looking at the HAR, I see where the forward hook might butt up against the 
> hoop portion of the HAR...is that what you are talking about?
>
> I am familiar with and like the security of the Arkel interface, but I 
> also like the simplicity of the hooks on my wife's set of Swift bags. I 
> would prefer to stick with native if possible. Do you think one of the 
> hooks on the Jr Range bag could be repositioned a bit closer to the other, 
> to optimize the fit?
>
> You also answered another key question I had, if the Jr Ranger was too 
> long for the HAR, which would render the bottom hook useless...good to know 
> it still catches the bottom rail appropriately.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Neil
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 7:56:25 AM UTC-7, Jim S. wrote:
>>
>> Re Swift panniers on HAR, I have this setup. It works. I use the Jr. 
>> Ranger panniers. I added the Arkel mounting system, which allows one to put 
>> the top hooks closer together, so as to fit on the top of the HAR. There's 
>> nothing to hold the hook on the bottom, but I've toured with this setup, 
>> and the bottom hook stays on. I just hook it in the middle. 
>>
>> For added security, however, I plan add a bit of bike tube zip-tied to 
>> each side of the bottom. I am told by Swift, (I think it was Jason, and 
>> Swift has great customer service) that zip-tied bike tube will keep the 
>> hook from sliding off the bottom, were the hook inclined to slide off in 
>> the first place (not my experience). I haven't tried it, but I believe this 
>> will work. I'll probably try it because I can't resist adding more stuff to 
>> my bike.
>>
>> I've used Swift on the HAR without the Arkel mounting system, (and I 
>> slightly prefer to not use the Arkel system, because plain old hooks are 
>> simpler.) But absent the Arkel mounting system, the Swift bags won't sit 
>> quite flat. The top hooks are slightly too far apart. You have to have one 
>> hook over the diagonal part. Is it a noticeable tilt? No. Did the bags fall 
>> off with this set up? No. But I got the Arkel because I have to have things 
>> *perfect.*
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 4:24:40 PM UTC-5, Neil Doran wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm back to adding front bags to my Sam. I searched, but did not find 
>>> info on whether the HAR will accept non-Riv bags, such as Lone Peak or 
>>> Swift.
>>>
>>> I understand Ortleib will work, and saw the thread about adding their 
>>> mounting hardware to Riv bags, but not interested in that solution.
>>>
>>> Anybody with first-hand knowledge of fitting non-Riv bags to the HAR?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Neil
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Hub Area Rack, with non-Riv bags...can I?

[Neil Doran]

Jim, thanks for the feedback! This is the precise combo I want, Jr Rangers 
with the HAR.

Looking at the HAR, I see where the forward hook might butt up against the 
hoop portion of the HAR...is that what you are talking about?

I am familiar with and like the security of the Arkel interface, but I also 
like the simplicity of the hooks on my wife's set of Swift bags. I would 
prefer to stick with native if possible. Do you think one of the hooks on 
the Jr Range bag could be repositioned a bit closer to the other, to 
optimize the fit?

You also answered another key question I had, if the Jr Ranger was too long 
for the HAR, which would render the bottom hook useless...good to know it 
still catches the bottom rail appropriately.

Cheers,

Neil

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 7:56:25 AM UTC-7, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Re Swift panniers on HAR, I have this setup. It works. I use the Jr. 
> Ranger panniers. I added the Arkel mounting system, which allows one to put 
> the top hooks closer together, so as to fit on the top of the HAR. There's 
> nothing to hold the hook on the bottom, but I've toured with this setup, 
> and the bottom hook stays on. I just hook it in the middle. 
>
> For added security, however, I plan add a bit of bike tube zip-tied to 
> each side of the bottom. I am told by Swift, (I think it was Jason, and 
> Swift has great customer service) that zip-tied bike tube will keep the 
> hook from sliding off the bottom, were the hook inclined to slide off in 
> the first place (not my experience). I haven't tried it, but I believe this 
> will work. I'll probably try it because I can't resist adding more stuff to 
> my bike.
>
> I've used Swift on the HAR without the Arkel mounting system, (and I 
> slightly prefer to not use the Arkel system, because plain old hooks are 
> simpler.) But absent the Arkel mounting system, the Swift bags won't sit 
> quite flat. The top hooks are slightly too far apart. You have to have one 
> hook over the diagonal part. Is it a noticeable tilt? No. Did the bags fall 
> off with this set up? No. But I got the Arkel because I have to have things 
> *perfect.*
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 4:24:40 PM UTC-5, Neil Doran wrote:
>>
>> I'm back to adding front bags to my Sam. I searched, but did not find 
>> info on whether the HAR will accept non-Riv bags, such as Lone Peak or 
>> Swift.
>>
>> I understand Ortleib will work, and saw the thread about adding their 
>> mounting hardware to Riv bags, but not interested in that solution.
>>
>> Anybody with first-hand knowledge of fitting non-Riv bags to the HAR?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Neil
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Lee Legrand]

Well, there is a alot of stuff on the internet about living simple and
getting back into natural predisposition in terms of food, clothing and
health.  Like the Paleo diet or barefoot shoes, or sitting on the floor
instead of chairs and natural clothing.  You must have seen stuff like this
on the web and similar

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Orc  wrote:

>
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 1:28:46 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> Maybe wearing shoes of some sort but I think you are rushing to discredit
>> him a little to quickly Orc.
>>
>
> I'm not so much trying to discredit him as trying to see where that
> argument even comes from.  There have been awful shoes out there, but the
> awful designs don't last and people are still wearing shoes, which seems to
> contradict the argument by design.
>
>
> -david parsons
>
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[RBW] Re: New Chev

[Kai Vierstra]

Any friend of Bridget Mullen is a friend of mine...  
Nice bike!, but that rack and pup need to get lower, right? I don't think 
you'll get it from those riv approved braze ons, what you need are some 
p-clamps. They're easy to use and they make your bike look even less 
desirable to thieves.
You take the water taxi a lot? 
-Kai
BK NY

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 2:53:13 PM UTC-4, Antone Könst wrote:
>
> Got my dream frame, 60 orange chevy, from Clayton a few weeks ago.  He did 
> a great job packing and shipping BTW>
>
> Been riding like a dream, even with all the cheap parts from my faux-riv 
> Nishiki build and ugly electrical tape (there intentionally bad, to deter 
> thieves).   Paul Racers and Thumbies, and the dynamo hub and lights in 
> front and back are the exception there.  
>
> One weird thing is the Surly 8-Pack I put on there...the Wald struts and a 
> shoelace help keep it in place since there isn't anything besides the 
> mid-fork mount keeping it horizontal otherwise...probably will engineer one 
> tho since I've been putting my puppy upfront for the 5 mile ride to my 
> studio along the East River.  She hates it, BTW, any tips on dogs on a bike 
> are welcome!  
>
> Other image is a painting I made, Night Rider, up now at Hometown Gallery 
> in Brooklyn.  Just thought this group might appreciate it :) 
>
> I love this bike, it makes me happy every day. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[reynoldslugs]

Orange is a great color.  I ride an orange Rambouillet, a 1973 Paramount in 
Kool Orange; a Merckx MX leader (Molteni orange), and an orange Ebisu. 
 Each looks great ATMO, I love riding them and sure don't tire of the 
color.  The  bright "kool orange" of the Paramount draws a lot of 
compliments from the Eroica crowd.

I like blue bikes, too.  And yellow and red ain't bad, either.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/albums/with/72157633988115199

Max B

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Orc]

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 1:28:46 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
> Maybe wearing shoes of some sort but I think you are rushing to discredit 
> him a little to quickly Orc.
>

I'm not so much trying to discredit him as trying to see where that 
argument even comes from.  There have been awful shoes out there, but the 
awful designs don't last and people are still wearing shoes, which seems to 
contradict the argument by design.


-david parsons

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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[Garth]

If you don't love a color let it go, choose another one. If you want some 
variety in a color, get one that is more color-shifty in various light 
conditions like one with metallic flakes of your favorite color.  



On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 3:19:02 PM UTC-4, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Obviously a highly subjective question, but I like hearing the opinions on 
> this board. The question: for long-term owners of orange bikes, do you find 
> yourself getting sick of orange after a while, more so than with other 
> colors? 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Lee Legrand]

Maybe wearing shoes of some sort but I think you are rushing to discredit
him a little to quickly Orc.  We may have been wearing padded shoes but we
cant say it has all been healed, cushioned and confined as they are for the
last 400 years.  We could make arguments that shoes were invented to
protect the feet thru weather, protection and abrasion of walking around
but I would like to see the shoes worn then and what we wear now for
comparison.  I think they will be a difference that it is the small
difference is what might validate Deacon Patrick argument.  For example, he
did mention shoes with no heals and I would doubt sincerely that shoes back
then, although wrapped the feet, did not confine the feet as today shoe.

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 3:25 PM, Orc  wrote:

> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 11:30:46 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>>  Our feet weren't engineered to be cushioned, supported, formed, and
>> imprisoned
>>
>
> Cite?   Humans have been wearing shoes for at least 10,000 years (and if
> the commentary on the net of a million lies is at all accurate, have been
> wearing shoes for considerably longer based on changes in toe bone
> thickness) which seems to run completely contrary to your argument?
>
> -david parsons
>
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[RBW] Re: "Modern" Components on a Riv?

[RJM]

Not sure on the specifics of the Sram 1x setups, but I ran my Roadeo with a 
full Ultegra 6800 11 speed group (minus the brakes) and my Sam with Ultegra 
6700 crank/derailers/chain but used barend silver shifters.  All of it 
worked well together. I don't see why a Sram 1x setup wouldn't work well on 
a Sam. I know a guy running a Kona Private Jake with a Sram 1x setup and it 
rides well, and that bike has like 40mm wide tires. Make sure you check to 
see if he Sram brifters will mesh correctly with the brakes you plan on 
running...that is one place you can find an issue. 

On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 9:10:47 AM UTC-5, Will Ashe wrote:
>
> Hey y'all, 
>
> Since I've decided to rebuild my Sam I've been looking for some 
> inspiration. I saw Roman's Sam in staff bikes with a Sram crankset, and am 
> considering trying a full Sram 1x setup. Do any of you have experience with 
> builds like this? I don't suspect that I'll run into any issues, but would 
> love some feedback.
>
> Thanks, 
>
> Will Ashe
>
> LA-->ATX
>

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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[velomann]

I don't currently own any orange bikes. but if I had a Molteni Merckx road 
bike i can't imagine I'd ever get tired of looking at it ;-)

Mike

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 12:19:02 PM UTC-7, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Obviously a highly subjective question, but I like hearing the opinions on 
> this board. The question: for long-term owners of orange bikes, do you find 
> yourself getting sick of orange after a while, more so than with other 
> colors? 
>

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Re: [RBW] regarding orange bikes

['Norman Bone' via RBW Owners Bunch]

As the original owner of an orange '99 allrounder and an orange XO1 (6 years), 
I'm gonna say no way am I tired of it! Orange is the fastest color 
anyway.Rivendell All-Rounder and Bridgestone XO-1

  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
||  
Rivendell All-Rounder and Bridgestone XO-1
   |   |

  |

  |

 


-Norman in hot and sunny Portland...finally

  From: Jim S. 
 To: RBW Owners Bunch  
 Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 12:19 PM
 Subject: [RBW] regarding orange bikes
   
Obviously a highly subjective question, but I like hearing the opinions on this 
board. The question: for long-term owners of orange bikes, do you find yourself 
getting sick of orange after a while, more so than with other colors? -- 

   

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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[sameness]

Orange being my favorite color, I actively seek them out. 

Not sure what I miss most about my old LeMond Poprad, the ride or the paint.

FWIW, I get tired of blue bikes the easiest and the soonest.

Jeff "Two Blue Bikes At The Moment" Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[Bill Lindsay]

A tandem is definitely a different question, IMO.  I personally could never 
have too many orange bikes, but I chose the sage for my HubbuHubbuH.  A 
tandem is more everything, to me, so I tone everything down.  My previous 
tandem was cream.  

BL/EC

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 12:30:39 PM UTC-7, Jim S. wrote:
>
> That's really the question. I'm wondering if an orange doesn't look great 
> at first, but then become loud and annoying over time. I've got an orange 
> tandem on order. I like how it looks now (from the photos). Hoping the 
> orange has staying power.
>
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 2:26:28 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> I do not find myself getting sick of orange after a while, less so than 
>> with other colors. 
>>
>> Is that really your question, or are you trying to tell us something?
>>
>> Bill 'three orange bikes at the moment' Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 12:19:02 PM UTC-7, Jim S. wrote:
>>>
>>> Obviously a highly subjective question, but I like hearing the opinions 
>>> on this board. The question: for long-term owners of orange bikes, do you 
>>> find yourself getting sick of orange after a while, more so than with other 
>>> colors? 
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[Orc]

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 12:19:02 PM UTC-7, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Obviously a highly subjective question, but I like hearing the opinions on 
> this board. The question: for long-term owners of orange bikes, do you find 
> yourself getting sick of orange after a while, more so than with other 
> colors? 
>
 
Nope  (but I can't think of any frame color I've gotten tired with, though 
the key lime green that the first gen Rosco Bubbe mixtes were painted in is 
a fairly boring color.)

-david parsons

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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[lconley]

I have an orange 1971 Gitane Tour de France, an orange Schwinn SuperSport, 
a metallic orange Sam Hillborne and am awaiting an orange Hubbuhubbuh, 
So in a word, no.


On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 3:19:02 PM UTC-4, Jim S. wrote:

> Obviously a highly subjective question, but I like hearing the opinions on 
> this board. The question: for long-term owners of orange bikes, do you find 
> yourself getting sick of orange after a while, more so than with other 
> colors? 
>

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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[Deacon Patrick]

My Hunqapillar has a few spots of orange somewhere next the the mostly 
gray, all of it under the mud somewhere. I barely see it when I'm not on 
the bike and I don't see it at all when I'm on the bike. How exactly would 
I get sick of it? Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 1:19:02 PM UTC-6, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Obviously a highly subjective question, but I like hearing the opinions on 
> this board. The question: for long-term owners of orange bikes, do you find 
> yourself getting sick of orange after a while, more so than with other 
> colors? 
>

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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[Jim S.]

That's really the question. I'm wondering if an orange doesn't look great 
at first, but then become loud and annoying over time. I've got an orange 
tandem on order. I like how it looks now (from the photos). Hoping the 
orange has staying power.


On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 2:26:28 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> I do not find myself getting sick of orange after a while, less so than 
> with other colors. 
>
> Is that really your question, or are you trying to tell us something?
>
> Bill 'three orange bikes at the moment' Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 12:19:02 PM UTC-7, Jim S. wrote:
>>
>> Obviously a highly subjective question, but I like hearing the opinions 
>> on this board. The question: for long-term owners of orange bikes, do you 
>> find yourself getting sick of orange after a while, more so than with other 
>> colors? 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[Bill Lindsay]

I do not find myself getting sick of orange after a while, less so than 
with other colors. 

Is that really your question, or are you trying to tell us something?

Bill 'three orange bikes at the moment' Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 12:19:02 PM UTC-7, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Obviously a highly subjective question, but I like hearing the opinions on 
> this board. The question: for long-term owners of orange bikes, do you find 
> yourself getting sick of orange after a while, more so than with other 
> colors? 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Orc]

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 11:30:46 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
>  Our feet weren't engineered to be cushioned, supported, formed, and 
> imprisoned
>

Cite?   Humans have been wearing shoes for at least 10,000 years (and if 
the commentary on the net of a million lies is at all accurate, have been 
wearing shoes for considerably longer based on changes in toe bone 
thickness) which seems to run completely contrary to your argument?

-david parsons

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[RBW] regarding orange bikes

[Jim S.]

Obviously a highly subjective question, but I like hearing the opinions on 
this board. The question: for long-term owners of orange bikes, do you find 
yourself getting sick of orange after a while, more so than with other 
colors? 

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Deacon Patrick]

I should also point out, Lee, that wearing minimalist shoes or going 
barefoot (which requires its own transition) is a core part of floor 
living. Our feet weren't engineered to be cushioned, supported, formed, and 
imprisoned, let alone have an artificially raised heel (as nearly all 
standard shoes do). High heels wreck proper posture and body mechanics.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 11:52:19 AM UTC-6, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
> Just out of curiosity Deacon because I was thinking of doing something 
> similar to that in terms of a table and trying to live more simply.  Can 
> you hook me up with books, youtube video's or resources on this kind of 
> floor living?  I still have a bed and mattress that I am attached to so I 
> do not think I will give those up but if I can live more on the floor like 
> having a lounging kind of chair or table to each, I think that would be 
> cool.  It is interesting you said something about posture.  I was having 
> some pains in my neck that seem to happen because of the chair I was 
> sitting in at work.  The only way I could relieve that pain was thru 
> getting up and more exercise to strengthen the back.  I am wondering if 
> squatting and living on the floor will help with that as well.
>
> Thanks Deacon
>
> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Deacon Patrick  > wrote:
>
>> Lee, floor living is living without chairs or a modern bed/mattress. My 
>> computer is at a kneeling desk. I am either sitting cross-legged, kneeling, 
>> squatting, standing, walking, or running. Bed is a few wool blankets made 
>> into a pad on the wood floor. Why?I started because of my brain injury, and 
>> everyone in our family followed at first because it was weird me on the 
>> floor and them not, but also because they also experience the vast 
>> improvements in posture, core strength, lithe and limberness.  Everything 
>> in my body moves more fluidly. Helps significantly with the vertigo being 
>> easier to "cut through."
>>
>> Ian, initial projects with the wood in hand are: work bench, saw horse 
>> (not much to see there), testing a platform bench for around our floor 
>> table (a repurposed cutting board, actually), and then school desks and a 
>> minimalist lap desk (utterly simple: a 14" x 5.6" maple board). Rather than 
>> clutter up the list here, I'll likely post them to my adventure blog: 
>> http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/
>>
>> RSS feed: http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/rss.xml
>>
>> Ian, great questions and comments!  I have no idea how common floor 
>> living is in Japan anymore -- only that it has survived longer in their 
>> culture than in most. Many Scandinavian countries have various versions of 
>> it as well to various degrees. As to swinging over the top tube, it's hard 
>> to forget the load on the bike. It's quite good at reminding you its there, 
>> especially when stopped (amazing how the bike stabilizes with the wheels 
>> moving!).
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 10:41:57 AM UTC-6, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>>
>>> Deacon,
>>>
>>> What do you mean by floor living?
>>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> .
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Deacon Patrick]

I'm not familiar with any books on the topic, Lee. Perhaps I should write 
one. Grin. As with everything simple, it takes 5 minutes to learn, and a 
lifetime to live and discover. Yes, if my experience has anything to say in 
the matter, you will find core strength and flexibility and posture 
gradually improve over three months, including any knee, back, neck, and 
shoulder issues resulting from weakened musclues, tense muscles and poor 
posture resulting from the cushion and structure of chair and bed living. I 
"transitioned" to floor living (sitting and sleeping) cold turkey. Sleeping 
is critical, as it's 1/3rd of your time in one go. Because I camp so often, 
sleeping on the floor was simple. Others I've talked with who've 
transitioned took a week or two before sleep "took out the kinks of the 
day" and they simply work up feeling better than they went to sleep.

For sitting, I "go by feel" quite literally. I sit in a position until it 
is uncomfortable, then I shift to another one until it feels uncomfortable. 
Wash, rinse, repeat. The general rule I used is if I wouldn't "have" that 
position out in the woods on the ground without bringing or making any 
furniture I wouldn't sit in it. That means I could lead against a wall (or 
couch) while bring on the floor, but not sit in a chair. The human body 
needs to shift, even subtly, every 20-30 minutes or so. After a challenging 
few months, by three months in I could be in every floor living position 
for at least 20 minutes and often 40 minutes.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 11:52:19 AM UTC-6, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
> Just out of curiosity Deacon because I was thinking of doing something 
> similar to that in terms of a table and trying to live more simply.  Can 
> you hook me up with books, youtube video's or resources on this kind of 
> floor living?  I still have a bed and mattress that I am attached to so I 
> do not think I will give those up but if I can live more on the floor like 
> having a lounging kind of chair or table to each, I think that would be 
> cool.  It is interesting you said something about posture.  I was having 
> some pains in my neck that seem to happen because of the chair I was 
> sitting in at work.  The only way I could relieve that pain was thru 
> getting up and more exercise to strengthen the back.  I am wondering if 
> squatting and living on the floor will help with that as well.
>
> Thanks Deacon
>
> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Deacon Patrick  > wrote:
>
>> Lee, floor living is living without chairs or a modern bed/mattress. My 
>> computer is at a kneeling desk. I am either sitting cross-legged, kneeling, 
>> squatting, standing, walking, or running. Bed is a few wool blankets made 
>> into a pad on the wood floor. Why?I started because of my brain injury, and 
>> everyone in our family followed at first because it was weird me on the 
>> floor and them not, but also because they also experience the vast 
>> improvements in posture, core strength, lithe and limberness.  Everything 
>> in my body moves more fluidly. Helps significantly with the vertigo being 
>> easier to "cut through."
>>
>> Ian, initial projects with the wood in hand are: work bench, saw horse 
>> (not much to see there), testing a platform bench for around our floor 
>> table (a repurposed cutting board, actually), and then school desks and a 
>> minimalist lap desk (utterly simple: a 14" x 5.6" maple board). Rather than 
>> clutter up the list here, I'll likely post them to my adventure blog: 
>> http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/
>>
>> RSS feed: http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/rss.xml
>>
>> Ian, great questions and comments!  I have no idea how common floor 
>> living is in Japan anymore -- only that it has survived longer in their 
>> culture than in most. Many Scandinavian countries have various versions of 
>> it as well to various degrees. As to swinging over the top tube, it's hard 
>> to forget the load on the bike. It's quite good at reminding you its there, 
>> especially when stopped (amazing how the bike stabilizes with the wheels 
>> moving!).
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 10:41:57 AM UTC-6, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>>
>>> Deacon,
>>>
>>> What do you mean by floor living?
>>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
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>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: 58 Simple One, Phil Hubs, Eno Crank and Eno FreeWheel, $1250

[Minh]

+1 on this, great bike, great build, great price.  my favorite bike.  

if i was nitpicky, the only thing i'd hold against it is that it's not 
green.  but then you'll likely have one of the few red ones.   

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 12:39:44 PM UTC-4, allenmichael wrote:
>
> The Quickbeams and Simple Ones are some of Rivendell's finest bicycles. My 
> wife and I have plans to move on to a boat early next year, and I need to 
> begin the process of selling large, more difficult to store items such as 
> this bike (and a 56 Sam Hillborne that I will post after this bike moves on 
> to a different owner). I'm only going to be able to have one full bike, and 
> I want something that I can take off road, over rough country, and with a 
> load. So … up for sale. 
>
> The purchaser of this bike will likely discover it is their very favorite 
> bike. 
>
> This version of the simple one has canti brakes and lots of braze-ons. The 
> rims are CR-18's, the hubs are Phil Wood, the crank and freewheel are from 
> White Industries. Matching Brooks saddle and Plump Grips. 
>
> The bike is in Portland, Oregon. The price is for local pick up. I'm 
> willing to take it to a shop for boxing and to ship it on bike flights but 
> at the buyer's expense. 
>
> Took lots of pictures yesterday: 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ezzmredk531b04z/AADct6KF4hTYbijbl0cOjqxra?dl=0

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Lee Legrand]

Just out of curiosity Deacon because I was thinking of doing something
similar to that in terms of a table and trying to live more simply.  Can
you hook me up with books, youtube video's or resources on this kind of
floor living?  I still have a bed and mattress that I am attached to so I
do not think I will give those up but if I can live more on the floor like
having a lounging kind of chair or table to each, I think that would be
cool.  It is interesting you said something about posture.  I was having
some pains in my neck that seem to happen because of the chair I was
sitting in at work.  The only way I could relieve that pain was thru
getting up and more exercise to strengthen the back.  I am wondering if
squatting and living on the floor will help with that as well.

Thanks Deacon

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Lee, floor living is living without chairs or a modern bed/mattress. My
> computer is at a kneeling desk. I am either sitting cross-legged, kneeling,
> squatting, standing, walking, or running. Bed is a few wool blankets made
> into a pad on the wood floor. Why?I started because of my brain injury, and
> everyone in our family followed at first because it was weird me on the
> floor and them not, but also because they also experience the vast
> improvements in posture, core strength, lithe and limberness.  Everything
> in my body moves more fluidly. Helps significantly with the vertigo being
> easier to "cut through."
>
> Ian, initial projects with the wood in hand are: work bench, saw horse
> (not much to see there), testing a platform bench for around our floor
> table (a repurposed cutting board, actually), and then school desks and a
> minimalist lap desk (utterly simple: a 14" x 5.6" maple board). Rather than
> clutter up the list here, I'll likely post them to my adventure blog:
> http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/
>
> RSS feed: http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/rss.xml
>
> Ian, great questions and comments!  I have no idea how common floor living
> is in Japan anymore -- only that it has survived longer in their culture
> than in most. Many Scandinavian countries have various versions of it as
> well to various degrees. As to swinging over the top tube, it's hard to
> forget the load on the bike. It's quite good at reminding you its there,
> especially when stopped (amazing how the bike stabilizes with the wheels
> moving!).
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 10:41:57 AM UTC-6, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> Deacon,
>>
>> What do you mean by floor living?
>>
> --
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>

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Deacon Patrick]

Lee, floor living is living without chairs or a modern bed/mattress. My 
computer is at a kneeling desk. I am either sitting cross-legged, kneeling, 
squatting, standing, walking, or running. Bed is a few wool blankets made 
into a pad on the wood floor. Why?I started because of my brain injury, and 
everyone in our family followed at first because it was weird me on the 
floor and them not, but also because they also experience the vast 
improvements in posture, core strength, lithe and limberness.  Everything 
in my body moves more fluidly. Helps significantly with the vertigo being 
easier to "cut through."

Ian, initial projects with the wood in hand are: work bench, saw horse (not 
much to see there), testing a platform bench for around our floor table (a 
repurposed cutting board, actually), and then school desks and a minimalist 
lap desk (utterly simple: a 14" x 5.6" maple board). Rather than clutter up 
the list here, I'll likely post them to my adventure blog: 
http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/

RSS feed: http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/rss.xml

Ian, great questions and comments!  I have no idea how common floor living 
is in Japan anymore -- only that it has survived longer in their culture 
than in most. Many Scandinavian countries have various versions of it as 
well to various degrees. As to swinging over the top tube, it's hard to 
forget the load on the bike. It's quite good at reminding you its there, 
especially when stopped (amazing how the bike stabilizes with the wheels 
moving!).

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 10:41:57 AM UTC-6, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
> Deacon,
>
> What do you mean by floor living?
>

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[RBW] Re: Compass on tour?

[Jon BALER]

I've had really good luck with Marathon Supremes on touring bikes.  I have 
38/40, my wife has 35 mm, and I think we have had 1 flat total over about 
3-4,000 miles each.

I've had the 38mm Soma Shikora tires on my commuter for the last year, and 
probably had 3 flats over ~3,000 miles. But I would gladly buy these 
tires again, and love their performance.

On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 4:23:56 PM UTC-4, dougP wrote:
>
> This is correct; there are no invulnerable tires.  For touring, the 
> Marathon Supreme provides better puncture protection than a more 
> performance oriented tire, but at the cost of weight & ride.  Sort of like 
> the old saying about "cheap, fast, & good; pick 2 out of 3".  
>
> FWIW, I've punctured a 47 mm Marathon Touring Plus (970 grams of stout 
> German rubber).  OTH, I had one Marathon Supreme that went over 11,000 
> miles without a puncture.  
>
> On tour, the junk on the shoulder is the killer.  The busier the highway, 
> the more crud gets deposited.  Sticking to quieter back roads is a winner.  
> There are places where you are forced onto the interstate & have to deal 
> with Dan's list.  Truck tire treads are a hazard, especially in summer.
>
> dougP
>
> On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 10:20:25 AM UTC-7, djm323 wrote:
>>
>> Marathon Supremes puncture, too.  I have 42-559 Supremes on my commuter 
>> and have had flats from wire strands, wood screws, roofing nails, narrow 
>> glass shards, etc.  Probably fewer than other tires but they are not 
>> invulnerable.  YMMV.
>>
>> :Dan • Chicagaux, USA
>>
>> On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 11:42:34 AM UTC-5, Eric Douglas wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> On the other hand, if I absolutely wanted to avoid flats I might 
>>> consider Schwalbe Marathon Supremes. 
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: DON'T OPEN GOOGLE DOC

[Braxton Colagross]

The bad guys spoof 2FA prompts and steal those codes the same way as 
passwords. This example especially tough to catch because they're 
displaying a legit Google.com oauth login for an app called "Google Docs" 
that isn't Google Docs. This is also an old trick. The new one simply uses 
an oauth token so no password (or 2FA) is required. 

On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 1:29:41 PM UTC-7, Tim Butterfield wrote:
>
> If you don't have 2 factor authentication on your google related accounts, 
> you can add that here:
> https://www.google.com/landing/2step/
>
> Tim
>
> On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Chris Birkenmaier  > wrote:
>
>> I was going to PM you to see if you were sending me something.  Glad I 
>> didn't touch it.  thanks for the heads up
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 3:40:19 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>> There's a massive phishing operation going on. If you see something from 
>>> me or any other list member requestion to open a Google Doc, don't touch it!
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Lee Legrand]

Deacon,

What do you mean by floor living?

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Ian A  wrote:

> Deacon:
> 1) you do not look old - you look just right.
> 2) certainly not ugly - that pic could be advertising literature for what
> a man "should" look like.
> 3) I always swing my leg high. When touring with a load on the rack, I
> have no problem swinging the leg over the load and over the saddle It's
> stepping over the crossbar that my brain can't handle. I'd be kicking that
> load of wood in the dismount.
> 4) is floor living still widely practiced in Japan? I have the impression
> that Japanese people spend a good portion of their lives at work, spaces
> which are furnished. Maybe people there are getting used to chairs and
> couches.
>
> I have reduced my furniture to a single chair and the bed consists of a
> futon frame with a sheet of plywood over it and a 3" thick bedsize piece of
> foam. Not quite floor living yet, but the space and lack of furnitire
> clutter is relaxing. Also, when I come to move, packing and hauling will be
> a cinch.
>
> Please let us see photos of the woodworking project as it goes along
> (assuming it's not off topic for the list).
>
> Ian A.
>
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[RBW] FS: 58 Simple One, Phil Hubs, Eno Crank and Eno FreeWheel, $1250

[allenmichael]

The Quickbeams and Simple Ones are some of Rivendell's finest bicycles. My wife 
and I have plans to move on to a boat early next year, and I need to begin the 
process of selling large, more difficult to store items such as this bike (and 
a 56 Sam Hillborne that I will post after this bike moves on to a different 
owner). I'm only going to be able to have one full bike, and I want something 
that I can take off road, over rough country, and with a load. So … up for sale.

The purchaser of this bike will likely discover it is their very favorite bike.

This version of the simple one has canti brakes and lots of braze-ons. The rims 
are CR-18's, the hubs are Phil Wood, the crank and freewheel are from White 
Industries. Matching Brooks saddle and Plump Grips.

The bike is in Portland, Oregon. The price is for local pick up. I'm willing to 
take it to a shop for boxing and to ship it on bike flights but at the buyer's 
expense.

Took lots of pictures yesterday: 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ezzmredk531b04z/AADct6KF4hTYbijbl0cOjqxra?dl=0

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Re: [RBW] Re: 2017 RAGBRAI

[Dale Click]

Mike, feel free to PM me with any questions that I may, or may not, be able to 
answer.  A good resource is the RAGBRAI site itself (forums) where many first 
timers ask for advice.  On my first ride (2015), I read the responses to others 
questions, and it helped a lot.

Rusty
PGH,PA
> On May 4, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Mike Packard  wrote:
> 
> I'm signed up to do the whole thing. Never done it before, would welcome any 
> advice. So far I've heard the most important thing is to take care of your 
> rear end.
> 
> I'll be on a blue Homer.
> 
> Mike
> Austin, TX
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 4:47:30 PM UTC-5, Rusty Click wrote:
> Any Riv listers heading to Iowa for this years RAGBRAI?  If so, drop me a 
> line.   Robert, are you still out there?
> 
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[RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Ian A]

Deacon: 
1) you do not look old - you look just right. 
2) certainly not ugly - that pic could be advertising literature for what a man 
"should" look like. 
3) I always swing my leg high. When touring with a load on the rack, I have no 
problem swinging the leg over the load and over the saddle It's stepping over 
the crossbar that my brain can't handle. I'd be kicking that load of wood in 
the dismount. 
4) is floor living still widely practiced in Japan? I have the impression that 
Japanese people spend a good portion of their lives at work, spaces which are 
furnished. Maybe people there are getting used to chairs and couches. 

I have reduced my furniture to a single chair and the bed consists of a futon 
frame with a sheet of plywood over it and a 3" thick bedsize piece of foam. Not 
quite floor living yet, but the space and lack of furnitire clutter is 
relaxing. Also, when I come to move, packing and hauling will be a cinch. 

Please let us see photos of the woodworking project as it goes along (assuming 
it's not off topic for the list). 

Ian A. 

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Re: [RBW] WTB Nitto 34F front rack

[Bill Lindsay]

Clayton 

I also have one and I'm local. I wasn't dying to get rid of it , but it's been 
on the shelf for a good while.  Let me know if you want to do something. You 
can have it for test fitting if you like and buy it if you like it

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Shop Sack Durability

[Patrick Moore]

Rivendell sells, or used to sell, this -- I got one from them. Frankly, I
find that a regular awl, good fat needle, and waxed thread is just as fast,
but this does work.

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 6:14 AM, Jon Dukeman,central Colorado <
row.n.2nowh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Tim,
> Here's a great tool to have. Available at REI, camp stores,ACE or online.
> Easy to use. Great for repairs, or attaching patches.
> http://www.speedystitcher.com/#the-basics
> Jon
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 10:03:47 PM UTC-6, Timothy Orr wrote:
>
>> Thanks sharing, Bob, Tony and Mark. It's a pretty small hole, so I'm sure
>> the bag will last for many years to come. Even if I have to test my hand
>> stitching skills.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>> Portland,OR
>>
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**
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[RBW] Re: 2017 RAGBRAI

[Mike Packard]

I'm signed up to do the whole thing. Never done it before, would welcome 
any advice. So far I've heard the most important thing is to take care of 
your rear end.

I'll be on a blue Homer.

Mike
Austin, TX




On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 4:47:30 PM UTC-5, Rusty Click wrote:
>
> Any Riv listers heading to Iowa for this years RAGBRAI?  If so, drop me a 
> line.   Robert, are you still out there?
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem saddle OR saddles under 40$

[Mike Packard]

Has anyone tried the VO microfiber saddles? How do they compare to an 
unpadded leather saddle (e.g. Brooks, Rivet, SA, etc.)?

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/saddles/microfiber-touring-saddle-wide.html

Mike


On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 9:26:49 AM UTC-5, Eli Queen wrote:
>
> I've been pretty happy with a WTB Pure Comp. 
>
> https://www.wtb.com/products/pure
>
> It's one of there wider saddles (but not too wide), and has the 
> distinctive WTB drop nose. The Comp is the lowest level, but they cost 
> about $40 and steel rails seem just fine if weight isn't you main concern. 
> Here's it on my Rosco.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Hub Area Rack, with non-Riv bags...can I?

[Jim S.]

Re Swift panniers on HAR, I have this setup. It works. I use the Jr. Ranger 
panniers. I added the Arkel mounting system, which allows one to put the 
top hooks closer together, so as to fit on the top of the HAR. There's 
nothing to hold the hook on the bottom, but I've toured with this setup, 
and the bottom hook stays on. I just hook it in the middle. 

For added security, however, I plan add a bit of bike tube zip-tied to each 
side of the bottom. I am told by Swift, (I think it was Jason, and Swift 
has great customer service) that zip-tied bike tube will keep the hook from 
sliding off the bottom, were the hook inclined to slide off in the first 
place (not my experience). I haven't tried it, but I believe this will 
work. I'll probably try it because I can't resist adding more stuff to my 
bike.

I've used Swift on the HAR without the Arkel mounting system, (and I 
slightly prefer to not use the Arkel system, because plain old hooks are 
simpler.) But absent the Arkel mounting system, the Swift bags won't sit 
quite flat. The top hooks are slightly too far apart. You have to have one 
hook over the diagonal part. Is it a noticeable tilt? No. Did the bags fall 
off with this set up? No. But I got the Arkel because I have to have things 
*perfect.*



On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 4:24:40 PM UTC-5, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> I'm back to adding front bags to my Sam. I searched, but did not find info 
> on whether the HAR will accept non-Riv bags, such as Lone Peak or Swift.
>
> I understand Ortleib will work, and saw the thread about adding their 
> mounting hardware to Riv bags, but not interested in that solution.
>
> Anybody with first-hand knowledge of fitting non-Riv bags to the HAR?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neil
>

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[RBW] WTB Nitto 34F front rack

[Clayton.sf]

Hi all,

looking to buy a Nitro 34F front rack. this is the big front rack. 
if any one has one they want to get rid of that is in decent shape let me know.

Thanks,
Clayton Scott
ST, CA

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[RBW] Re: Hub Area Rack, with non-Riv bags...can I?

[C.J. Filip]

Racktime Tour front panniers seem to work great on my setup!  Not using the 
hoop so I keep bulky but light items up front.

On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 2:24:40 PM UTC-7, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> I'm back to adding front bags to my Sam. I searched, but did not find info 
> on whether the HAR will accept non-Riv bags, such as Lone Peak or Swift.
>
> I understand Ortleib will work, and saw the thread about adding their 
> mounting hardware to Riv bags, but not interested in that solution.
>
> Anybody with first-hand knowledge of fitting non-Riv bags to the HAR?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neil
>

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[RBW] Re: Shop Sack Durability

[Jon Dukeman,central Colorado]

Tim,
Here's a great tool to have. Available at REI, camp stores,ACE or online.
Easy to use. Great for repairs, or attaching patches.
http://www.speedystitcher.com/#the-basics
Jon

On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 10:03:47 PM UTC-6, Timothy Orr wrote:

> Thanks sharing, Bob, Tony and Mark. It's a pretty small hole, so I'm sure 
> the bag will last for many years to come. Even if I have to test my hand 
> stitching skills. 
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> Portland,OR
>

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[RBW] Re: Shop Sack Durability

[Bob Lovejoy]

Hi Tim,

I know you have probably already done this but still...  I would definitely 
examine the rack or basket for any nicks, burrs, anomalies corresponding to 
where the hole is forming on the bag.  It is easy to envision a mildly 
weighted bag eventually losing the battle,  bouncing and rubbing against 
anything rough on the rack while riding.  Might even be worthwhile to 
devise some small padding on the rack side of the problem area.  I would 
also make sure the bag is clipped or "netted" down  and only minimally 
moves during rides.

Anyway, I do like things that last, even when an assist is needed to help 
that along!

Best to you,

Bob

P.S.  And hand patched things, well, they show we care!  And caring is 
important...


On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 11:03:47 PM UTC-5, Timothy Orr wrote:
>
> Thanks sharing, Bob, Tony and Mark. It's a pretty small hole, so I'm sure 
> the bag will last for many years to come. Even if I have to test my hand 
> stitching skills. 
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> Portland,OR
>

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