[RBW] Re: Have a Sub 20lb Roadeo?

[islaysteve]

Awesome build and post, Bill. Love the look of your BMC.   You've provided 
useful information for fantasizing about putting my Bleriot on a diet.  
Realistically, I can remove the rack and get a lighter saddle than the 
Brooks.  Thanks, Steve


On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 6:21:48 PM UTC-5, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> Reading Grant interview where he was saying they were shooting for sub-20 
> wihen they developed  the Roadeo and was wondering if anyone here has 
> realized this on their Roadeo.

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[RBW] Who rides an off-roadish Sam?

[Deacon Patrick]

Neil, I love Compass’ knobbies on my off-roadish Quickbeam and they handle 
pavement as well as ThunderBurts.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: FS: 60 Quickbeam and 52tt/50.5st Crust Romanceur

[Stephen D]

Quickbeam price reduced to $1300.

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 5:33:31 PM UTC-5, Stephen D wrote:
>
> Continuing the parts / bikes purge in preparation for a move... This round 
> -- two of our bikes.
>
> Prices are local pickup in Baltimore. I live by a park, so it's easy to 
> take them for a test spin.
>
> If shipped, packing by a local bike shop ($50) and bike flights shipping 
> charge will be extra. We'll verify the total before it's done, but the 
> total of packing + shipping will probably be about $150 if going to west 
> coast.
>
> *Quickbeam* (60) - $1400. Bought last year on this forum. Wife used 
> primarily as a commuter bike during that time. Wheelset rebuilt during that 
> year by Cutlass wheels. HED Belgium+ rims with the Phil Wood hubs that came 
> with the bike's older wheelset. Barlow pass tires. Tektro Canti up front, 
> Paul Canti in the rear. Sugino Super Mighty 170 crank with Sugino Mighty 
> Competition 45t chainring. Campy Record headset, White freewheel, Nitto 
> Noodle bars with Nitto Pearl 8 stem. Nitto S65 seat post with Brooks B17 in 
> excellent shape (wife is keeping her broken in saddle, so we put a spare 
> B17 that is not broken in yet on the bike for the sale). Includes an 
> uninstalled Surly Dingle.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/stephendm/albums/72157664882872958
>
> *Crust Romanceur *(52 Top Tube / 50.5 Seat Tube) - $2200. Built this 
> summer. Ridden less than 50 miles. Has a reused anodized White ENO 175 
> crankset, added new VBC chainrings, Spank Spike pedals. IRD 9spd wide range 
> cassette. NOS Dura Ace downtube shifters with Shimano derailleurs. 650b 
> Wheelset with SONDelux / White CLD hubs with Velocity Blunt 35 rims and 
> tubeless Switchback Hill tires. Paul Klampers (short pull), Nitto Rando 
> Bar. Paul Rear Skewer. Also comes with new, unopened Honjo H80 fender set 
> with stays from Bens Cycle (
> https://www.benscycle.com/honjo-h80-full-coverage-fender-set---650b---aluminum---smooth/full_coverage_fender_honjo__707-272/product).
>  
> Never finished the build, so fenders are uninstalled, and no lights are 
> wiring for the dyne hub.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/stephendm/albums/72157689609938172
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Did you stop using Compass tires?

[Matt C.]

I've been riding 32mm Compass for a year on lots of different terrain. The only 
flat I received came while touring. I then lowered the pressure from 80 psi to 
70 and haven't had a flat since. 

I don't track miles but I would assume I'm under 1000 on them. 

Matt Cook
Bristol, RI

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[RBW] Rivendell prices going up.

[Davey Two Shoes]

As of Jan 1 Waterford up their prices across the board. I know this because I 
ordered one prior to the price increase. I was looking at a Gunnar Roadie but 
then my shop informed me that with all the specs I requested it would be the 
same price as a Waterford UNTIL JAN 1. So it worked out for me.

Anyway I suspect that's at least part of the reason Rivs are going up.

Bill, while Lum may not be speaking of you specifically, I'm sure you fit the 
description ;)

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[RBW] Are you using your real name on here?

[Palmer]

Yup, my close friends call me Palmer which is my handle and I sign with my full 
name. You are my close friends.
Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI

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[RBW] Are you using your real name on here?

[Davey Two Shoes]

Perhaps obvious but my last name is not 2shoes

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[RBW] Did you stop using Compass tires?

[Davey Two Shoes]

I've been using the 38x700c extra light on my salsa vaya for the past few 
seasons for both on and off road ride. This fall I switched out to surly 
knards. On my first ride I rolled the front tire while cornering very hard at 
speed and went down pretty hard. I'll likely be putting this Compass back on 
soon. Just real great tires that are so much more capable than they look.

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

[RJM]

That's what I think. If a custom MUSA frame can be had for not a lot more 
than what a production frame costs, eventually people will choose to go 
custom, choose to purchase overseas produced frames, or go a different 
route for a bicycle. 


On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 10:43:55 AM UTC-6, Belopsky wrote:

> ^Exactly. Waterford is pricing themselves out of the market, sorry not 
> sorry. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Minh]

Wow, tough situation, on one hand it was locked up but otoh it was sitting 
there for weeks.  what's the right thing to do here?  do you leave it alone 
or do take it in assuming something bad?  interested to see what the story 
is behind this.

On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 2:21:40 PM UTC-5, John A. Bennett wrote:
>
> A Sam Hillborne was spotted in the same spot for weeks on end until 
> someone finally cut the u-lock and posted this on Craigslist.
>
> As of now, as far as I know, the Craigslist poster has not heard from the 
> owner. 
>
> Anyone out there?
>
>
> https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/found-rivendell-sam-hillborne/6474538877.html
>
> All I know, 
>
> John, in Portland (who isn't really in on the whole thing, just posting 
> this here in the hopes it will raise owner) 
>

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[RBW] Re: Who rides an off-roadish Sam?

[RJM]

Back when I had my orange canti Sam H I initially set it up as a road bike 
with Noodles, bar end shifters, and v-brakes and the bike really rode well. 
It was a 650 b wheeled bike with Velocity Dyads and the Rivy freewheel 
hubs. Pretty nice setup. I then changed it to do some trail riding by 
switching over to some albatross bars with paul thumbies. the bike handled 
gravel and the more mellower trails around me very well, but when it came 
to single track with larger roots and not smooth trails, the low bottom 
bracket height introduced some pedal strikes. When I had it in that 
configuration I was using Rock n' Roll tires, which are great. 

the Sam isn't a mountain bike, but it makes for a really good trail bike 
provided your trails are pretty clear of root and rock drops. 

On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 4:45:50 PM UTC-6, Neil Doran wrote:

> I've always loved riding my Sam in the dirt, and regularly 'underbike' my 
> Sam and my Surly commuter through all manner of trail. Love it.
>
> But a big mixed-terrain ride a few weeks back got me thinking about a more 
> dirt-capable build. Roman's bike also serves as fodder for the idea:
>
>
>
> Really, the lynch pin is high-volume knobbies, and I think the Cazaderos 
> are the ones to try. Roman thinks they will fit under 559s. I'm thinking 
> knobbie tires, a short-reach drop bar rather than Noodles, and maybe even 
> brifters. I'm not manly enough to go 1x, but a hi-lo double might be sweet.
>
> The alternative is a new bike (disk brakes, 650B with room for fatties), 
> which I really shouldn't do.
>
> Let me know what you have done to off-road your Sam!
>

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[RBW] Re: Who rides an off-roadish Sam?

[RJM]

I meant Rock n' Road tires. lol. 

I had Fatty Rumpkins on the bike before the Rock n' Roads and they handled 
crushed limestone trails great too. 

I found V-brakes powerful enough to not give me any issue braking on 
trails, but in my experience hydraulic discs are on a whole 'nuther level 
of awesome. If you are looking for a MUSA bike with discs, 650b wheels, and 
room for fat tires you could check out CHUMBA bikes. They have one called 
the Terlingua that checks all those boxes, but it is a welded steel frame 
and not lugged. 

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 9:25:18 AM UTC-6, RJM wrote:

> Back when I had my orange canti Sam H I initially set it up as a road bike 
> with Noodles, bar end shifters, and v-brakes and the bike really rode well. 
> It was a 650 b wheeled bike with Velocity Dyads and the Rivy freewheel 
> hubs. Pretty nice setup. I then changed it to do some trail riding by 
> switching over to some albatross bars with paul thumbies. the bike handled 
> gravel and the more mellower trails around me very well, but when it came 
> to single track with larger roots and not smooth trails, the low bottom 
> bracket height introduced some pedal strikes. When I had it in that 
> configuration I was using Rock n' Roll tires, which are great. 
>
> the Sam isn't a mountain bike, but it makes for a really good trail bike 
> provided your trails are pretty clear of root and rock drops. 
>
> On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 4:45:50 PM UTC-6, Neil Doran wrote:
>
>> I've always loved riding my Sam in the dirt, and regularly 'underbike' my 
>> Sam and my Surly commuter through all manner of trail. Love it.
>>
>> But a big mixed-terrain ride a few weeks back got me thinking about a 
>> more dirt-capable build. Roman's bike also serves as fodder for the idea:
>>
>>
>>
>> Really, the lynch pin is high-volume knobbies, and I think the Cazaderos 
>> are the ones to try. Roman thinks they will fit under 559s. I'm thinking 
>> knobbie tires, a short-reach drop bar rather than Noodles, and maybe even 
>> brifters. I'm not manly enough to go 1x, but a hi-lo double might be sweet.
>>
>> The alternative is a new bike (disk brakes, 650B with room for fatties), 
>> which I really shouldn't do.
>>
>> Let me know what you have done to off-road your Sam!
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

[Dave Small]

I have a couple of thoughts:

I like well-designed and well-made steel bikes that are lugged or 
fillet-brazed, are built for 1" threaded quill stems, and can accommodate 
tires of at least 32mm and preferably wider.  Offhand I can think of a few 
specific models from other companies that meet those criteria, but Riv has 
a line-up of them.  My criteria describe Riv's core philosophy, despite the 
relatively recent introduction of TIG-welded models.  The specific models 
from other companies are about the same price as a Sam frame or are more 
expensive, so comparing like-to-like, Riv is priced competitively. 
 Comparing Riv to, say, Surly or Salsa or other mass-produced Chinese 
frames, Riv is "overpriced" but Grant acknowledges the better value of a 
Surly frame if all you care about is utility.  I want more than that (and I 
own a Cross Check, so know the differences firsthand) 

I respect entrepreneurs in general, what Grant's done specifically, and 
I've been pretty heavily influenced by him over the past 5 or so years.  I 
like what the company is about, I like the people who work there, and I 
want them to succeed.  Grant's been open about Riv's financial woes over 
the years, and I want to help when I can.  I feel the same way about 
another small bicycle company with whom I have a closer relationship than I 
have with Rivendell, and I also support them with my dollars whenever I 
can.  This isn't altruism, but it's a conscious decision on my part to send 
my dollars to people who fill a niche I believe in, who've been good to me 
over the years, and whose success I want to *actively* contribute to.  I'm 
not just a satisfied customer, I'm a loyal customer, and I get satisfaction 
out of knowing that in a small way I'm contributing to their continued 
success.  

I love Waterford (and BTW, that's not the company I referred to above).  I 
own 2 Waterford-badged road bikes, owned a Waterford-badged racing bike 
that I recently sold, and own a Waterford-built Homer Hilsen.  I tell 
people that Richard Schwinn must have a pot of magic-dust that he applies a 
little of to each bike they make, 'cause they all ride beautifully.  All 4 
are outstanding bikes, but that excellence comes from a combination of many 
factors, especially build quality and design; it's not just about brazing 
technique.  The craftsmen in Taiwan are just as capable as the Craftsmen in 
Wisconsin, and I wouldn't foresee any difference in overall build quality 
or ride quality between an identical model made at Waterford or in a good 
shop in Taiwan.  The Taiwanese Sams and the Cheviot I have are just as 
pretty and well put-together as my Waterford-built bikes, but I can't 
compare them directly because they differ in design and purpose.  

Based solely on price, I don't foresee ever buying a custom Riv.  There's 
an excellent local builder who'd build a custom lugged or fillet-brazed 
steel frame and fork with all the bells and whistles I'd want for 
(currently) $2350 or less.  I'd go that route and get a bike just as nice 
for much less than a Riv custom.  A lot of good builders exist who would 
build a nice custom in the same ballpark of price, so in that respect Riv's 
custom prices do seem high.  It's a good thing that custom orders aren't 
their bread and butter.   

Last and least, I'm glad I took advantage of the recent Sam and Cheviot 
presale on the day they were $1000; that was a great price even then, and 
as of today it's even better!

Dave (yes, that's my real name)

>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Here's what Grant had to say on the subject of price and value and bicycles 
exactly 22 years ago, in the sidebar in the February 1996 issue of Bicycle 
Guide magazine (click to embiggen):




On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 10:37:03 AM UTC-5, Dave Small wrote:
>
> I have a couple of thoughts:
>
> I like well-designed and well-made steel bikes that are lugged or 
> fillet-brazed, are built for 1" threaded quill stems, and can accommodate 
> tires of at least 32mm and preferably wider.  Offhand I can think of a few 
> specific models from other companies that meet those criteria, but Riv has 
> a line-up of them.  My criteria describe Riv's core philosophy, despite the 
> relatively recent introduction of TIG-welded models.  The specific models 
> from other companies are about the same price as a Sam frame or are more 
> expensive, so comparing like-to-like, Riv is priced competitively. 
>  Comparing Riv to, say, Surly or Salsa or other mass-produced Chinese 
> frames, Riv is "overpriced" but Grant acknowledges the better value of a 
> Surly frame if all you care about is utility.  I want more than that (and I 
> own a Cross Check, so know the differences firsthand) 
>
> I respect entrepreneurs in general, what Grant's done specifically, and 
> I've been pretty heavily influenced by him over the past 5 or so years.  I 
> like what the company is about, I like the people who work there, and I 
> want them to succeed.  Grant's been open about Riv's financial woes over 
> the years, and I want to help when I can.  I feel the same way about 
> another small bicycle company with whom I have a closer relationship than I 
> have with Rivendell, and I also support them with my dollars whenever I 
> can.  This isn't altruism, but it's a conscious decision on my part to send 
> my dollars to people who fill a niche I believe in, who've been good to me 
> over the years, and whose success I want to *actively* contribute to. 
>  I'm not just a satisfied customer, I'm a loyal customer, and I get 
> satisfaction out of knowing that in a small way I'm contributing to their 
> continued success.  
>
> I love Waterford (and BTW, that's not the company I referred to above).  I 
> own 2 Waterford-badged road bikes, owned a Waterford-badged racing bike 
> that I recently sold, and own a Waterford-built Homer Hilsen.  I tell 
> people that Richard Schwinn must have a pot of magic-dust that he applies a 
> little of to each bike they make, 'cause they all ride beautifully.  All 4 
> are outstanding bikes, but that excellence comes from a combination of many 
> factors, especially build quality and design; it's not just about brazing 
> technique.  The craftsmen in Taiwan are just as capable as the Craftsmen in 
> Wisconsin, and I wouldn't foresee any difference in overall build quality 
> or ride quality between an identical model made at Waterford or in a good 
> shop in Taiwan.  The Taiwanese Sams and the Cheviot I have are just as 
> pretty and well put-together as my Waterford-built bikes, but I can't 
> compare them directly because they differ in design and purpose.  
>
> Based solely on price, I don't foresee ever buying a custom Riv.  There's 
> an excellent local builder who'd build a custom lugged or fillet-brazed 
> steel frame and fork with all the bells and whistles I'd want for 
> (currently) $2350 or less.  I'd go that route and get a bike just as nice 
> for much less than a Riv custom.  A lot of good builders exist who would 
> build a nice custom in the same ballpark of price, so in that respect Riv's 
> custom prices do seem high.  It's a good thing that custom orders aren't 
> their bread and butter.   
>
> Last and least, I'm glad I took advantage of the recent Sam and Cheviot 
> presale on the day they were $1000; that was a great price even then, and 
> as of today it's even better!
>
> Dave (yes, that's my real name)
>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

[Belopsky]

Well stated. 

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 9:37:03 AM UTC-6, Dave Small wrote:
>
> I have a couple of thoughts:
>
> I like well-designed and well-made steel bikes that are lugged or 
> fillet-brazed, are built for 1" threaded quill stems, and can accommodate 
> tires of at least 32mm and preferably wider.  Offhand I can think of a few 
> specific models from other companies that meet those criteria, but Riv has 
> a line-up of them.  My criteria describe Riv's core philosophy, despite the 
> relatively recent introduction of TIG-welded models.  The specific models 
> from other companies are about the same price as a Sam frame or are more 
> expensive, so comparing like-to-like, Riv is priced competitively. 
>  Comparing Riv to, say, Surly or Salsa or other mass-produced Chinese 
> frames, Riv is "overpriced" but Grant acknowledges the better value of a 
> Surly frame if all you care about is utility.  I want more than that (and I 
> own a Cross Check, so know the differences firsthand) 
>
> I respect entrepreneurs in general, what Grant's done specifically, and 
> I've been pretty heavily influenced by him over the past 5 or so years.  I 
> like what the company is about, I like the people who work there, and I 
> want them to succeed.  Grant's been open about Riv's financial woes over 
> the years, and I want to help when I can.  I feel the same way about 
> another small bicycle company with whom I have a closer relationship than I 
> have with Rivendell, and I also support them with my dollars whenever I 
> can.  This isn't altruism, but it's a conscious decision on my part to send 
> my dollars to people who fill a niche I believe in, who've been good to me 
> over the years, and whose success I want to *actively* contribute to. 
>  I'm not just a satisfied customer, I'm a loyal customer, and I get 
> satisfaction out of knowing that in a small way I'm contributing to their 
> continued success.  
>
> I love Waterford (and BTW, that's not the company I referred to above).  I 
> own 2 Waterford-badged road bikes, owned a Waterford-badged racing bike 
> that I recently sold, and own a Waterford-built Homer Hilsen.  I tell 
> people that Richard Schwinn must have a pot of magic-dust that he applies a 
> little of to each bike they make, 'cause they all ride beautifully.  All 4 
> are outstanding bikes, but that excellence comes from a combination of many 
> factors, especially build quality and design; it's not just about brazing 
> technique.  The craftsmen in Taiwan are just as capable as the Craftsmen in 
> Wisconsin, and I wouldn't foresee any difference in overall build quality 
> or ride quality between an identical model made at Waterford or in a good 
> shop in Taiwan.  The Taiwanese Sams and the Cheviot I have are just as 
> pretty and well put-together as my Waterford-built bikes, but I can't 
> compare them directly because they differ in design and purpose.  
>
> Based solely on price, I don't foresee ever buying a custom Riv.  There's 
> an excellent local builder who'd build a custom lugged or fillet-brazed 
> steel frame and fork with all the bells and whistles I'd want for 
> (currently) $2350 or less.  I'd go that route and get a bike just as nice 
> for much less than a Riv custom.  A lot of good builders exist who would 
> build a nice custom in the same ballpark of price, so in that respect Riv's 
> custom prices do seem high.  It's a good thing that custom orders aren't 
> their bread and butter.   
>
> Last and least, I'm glad I took advantage of the recent Sam and Cheviot 
> presale on the day they were $1000; that was a great price even then, and 
> as of today it's even better!
>
> Dave (yes, that's my real name)
>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell prices going up.

[Eric Daume]

Surlys and most Salsas are made in Taiwan, not China.

Eric
Who was disappointed to find the new Timberjack frames were indeed made in
China

On Thursday, February 1, 2018, Dave Small 
wrote:

> I have a couple of thoughts:
>
> I like well-designed and well-made steel bikes that are lugged or
> fillet-brazed, are built for 1" threaded quill stems, and can accommodate
> tires of at least 32mm and preferably wider.  Offhand I can think of a few
> specific models from other companies that meet those criteria, but Riv has
> a line-up of them.  My criteria describe Riv's core philosophy, despite the
> relatively recent introduction of TIG-welded models.  The specific models
> from other companies are about the same price as a Sam frame or are more
> expensive, so comparing like-to-like, Riv is priced competitively.
> Comparing Riv to, say, Surly or Salsa or other mass-produced Chinese
> frames, Riv is "overpriced" but Grant acknowledges the better value of a
> Surly frame if all you care about is utility.  I want more than that (and I
> own a Cross Check, so know the differences firsthand)
>
> I respect entrepreneurs in general, what Grant's done specifically, and
> I've been pretty heavily influenced by him over the past 5 or so years.  I
> like what the company is about, I like the people who work there, and I
> want them to succeed.  Grant's been open about Riv's financial woes over
> the years, and I want to help when I can.  I feel the same way about
> another small bicycle company with whom I have a closer relationship than I
> have with Rivendell, and I also support them with my dollars whenever I
> can.  This isn't altruism, but it's a conscious decision on my part to send
> my dollars to people who fill a niche I believe in, who've been good to me
> over the years, and whose success I want to *actively* contribute to.
> I'm not just a satisfied customer, I'm a loyal customer, and I get
> satisfaction out of knowing that in a small way I'm contributing to their
> continued success.
>
> I love Waterford (and BTW, that's not the company I referred to above).  I
> own 2 Waterford-badged road bikes, owned a Waterford-badged racing bike
> that I recently sold, and own a Waterford-built Homer Hilsen.  I tell
> people that Richard Schwinn must have a pot of magic-dust that he applies a
> little of to each bike they make, 'cause they all ride beautifully.  All 4
> are outstanding bikes, but that excellence comes from a combination of many
> factors, especially build quality and design; it's not just about brazing
> technique.  The craftsmen in Taiwan are just as capable as the Craftsmen in
> Wisconsin, and I wouldn't foresee any difference in overall build quality
> or ride quality between an identical model made at Waterford or in a good
> shop in Taiwan.  The Taiwanese Sams and the Cheviot I have are just as
> pretty and well put-together as my Waterford-built bikes, but I can't
> compare them directly because they differ in design and purpose.
>
> Based solely on price, I don't foresee ever buying a custom Riv.  There's
> an excellent local builder who'd build a custom lugged or fillet-brazed
> steel frame and fork with all the bells and whistles I'd want for
> (currently) $2350 or less.  I'd go that route and get a bike just as nice
> for much less than a Riv custom.  A lot of good builders exist who would
> build a nice custom in the same ballpark of price, so in that respect Riv's
> custom prices do seem high.  It's a good thing that custom orders aren't
> their bread and butter.
>
> Last and least, I'm glad I took advantage of the recent Sam and Cheviot
> presale on the day they were $1000; that was a great price even then, and
> as of today it's even better!
>
> Dave (yes, that's my real name)
>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Did you stop using Compass tires?

[Philip Williamson]

I like my RTPs and 700x44s. 
I had one flat with the RTPs on dirt that turned into a terrible experience 
because I’m bad at patching, but turned into a good experience because I begged 
a tube off the only other 26er rider at the West Point Inn pancake breakfast. 
The Snoqualmies handled Bolinas Ridge down to Olema (very rough and jouncy) 
great.

Philip (Real name: Joe Bunik. We focus-grouped the hell out of that name for 
the new bike model)
Santa Rosa

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

[Patrick Moore]

One value-add, as they say in biznis speak, is what appears (from owning 5
Rivendells) a signature Rivendell handling quality which I experience as
straight line stability with "unerring" transition into turns. I had hoped
to get this from my Matthews, but didn't (and given that I ride 50 or, now,
60 mm tires at pressures in the low 20s, perhaps you simply can't get it
so).

But I'd be curious to learn what other custom builders have captured this
handling quality. I daresay it's not magic, but I certainly have found it
more with each of the 5 Rivs (tho' not all to the same degree) than with
other bikes I've owned, and I've owned quite a number.

Bertin, someone else's name.

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 8:37 AM, Dave Small 
wrote:

> [...]
>
> Based solely on price, I don't foresee ever buying a custom Riv.  There's
> an excellent local builder who'd build a custom lugged or fillet-brazed
> steel frame and fork with all the bells and whistles I'd want for
> (currently) $2350 or less.  I'd go that route and get a bike just as nice
> for much less than a Riv custom.  A lot of good builders exist who would
> build a nice custom in the same ballpark of price, so in that respect Riv's
> custom prices do seem high.  It's a good thing that custom orders aren't
> their bread and butter.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell prices going up.

[Patrick Moore]

Why is this disappointing? (That's a question, not a scolding.)

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Eric Daume  wrote:

> [...]
> Who was disappointed to find the new Timberjack frames were indeed made in
> China
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

[Bob Lovejoy]

Dave,

Agreed on everything you said... We do vote with our dollars.  When and 
where we spend our dollars equates in its way to, we vote for more of that, 
and unfortunately, in the zero-sum sense, we vote for less of whatever we 
did not choose.  If money did fall from the sky, there are several custom 
builders (known and unknown) that I would be talking with.  Until then, 
though, the Rivendells are exactly the bikes that interest me and fill my 
needs.  I have been one of the constant search but that seems far less 
important now.  Time to ride, time to explore, time to be more the rider 
than the never quite satisfied.

That said, my incredibly poorly timed good sense and austerity cost me $$ 
when the deal on Sam's and Cheviots appeared!  Seems that stubbornness cost 
me but at least it is all going to a good cause, something I want more of 
and for it to succeed.

Bob Lovejoy
Galesburg, IL


On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 9:37:03 AM UTC-6, Dave Small wrote:
>
> I have a couple of thoughts:
>
> I like well-designed and well-made steel bikes that are lugged or 
> fillet-brazed, are built for 1" threaded quill stems, and can accommodate 
> tires of at least 32mm and preferably wider.  Offhand I can think of a few 
> specific models from other companies that meet those criteria, but Riv has 
> a line-up of them.  My criteria describe Riv's core philosophy, despite the 
> relatively recent introduction of TIG-welded models.  The specific models 
> from other companies are about the same price as a Sam frame or are more 
> expensive, so comparing like-to-like, Riv is priced competitively. 
>  Comparing Riv to, say, Surly or Salsa or other mass-produced Chinese 
> frames, Riv is "overpriced" but Grant acknowledges the better value of a 
> Surly frame if all you care about is utility.  I want more than that (and I 
> own a Cross Check, so know the differences firsthand) 
>
> I respect entrepreneurs in general, what Grant's done specifically, and 
> I've been pretty heavily influenced by him over the past 5 or so years.  I 
> like what the company is about, I like the people who work there, and I 
> want them to succeed.  Grant's been open about Riv's financial woes over 
> the years, and I want to help when I can.  I feel the same way about 
> another small bicycle company with whom I have a closer relationship than I 
> have with Rivendell, and I also support them with my dollars whenever I 
> can.  This isn't altruism, but it's a conscious decision on my part to send 
> my dollars to people who fill a niche I believe in, who've been good to me 
> over the years, and whose success I want to *actively* contribute to. 
>  I'm not just a satisfied customer, I'm a loyal customer, and I get 
> satisfaction out of knowing that in a small way I'm contributing to their 
> continued success.  
>
> I love Waterford (and BTW, that's not the company I referred to above).  I 
> own 2 Waterford-badged road bikes, owned a Waterford-badged racing bike 
> that I recently sold, and own a Waterford-built Homer Hilsen.  I tell 
> people that Richard Schwinn must have a pot of magic-dust that he applies a 
> little of to each bike they make, 'cause they all ride beautifully.  All 4 
> are outstanding bikes, but that excellence comes from a combination of many 
> factors, especially build quality and design; it's not just about brazing 
> technique.  The craftsmen in Taiwan are just as capable as the Craftsmen in 
> Wisconsin, and I wouldn't foresee any difference in overall build quality 
> or ride quality between an identical model made at Waterford or in a good 
> shop in Taiwan.  The Taiwanese Sams and the Cheviot I have are just as 
> pretty and well put-together as my Waterford-built bikes, but I can't 
> compare them directly because they differ in design and purpose.  
>
> Based solely on price, I don't foresee ever buying a custom Riv.  There's 
> an excellent local builder who'd build a custom lugged or fillet-brazed 
> steel frame and fork with all the bells and whistles I'd want for 
> (currently) $2350 or less.  I'd go that route and get a bike just as nice 
> for much less than a Riv custom.  A lot of good builders exist who would 
> build a nice custom in the same ballpark of price, so in that respect Riv's 
> custom prices do seem high.  It's a good thing that custom orders aren't 
> their bread and butter.   
>
> Last and least, I'm glad I took advantage of the recent Sam and Cheviot 
> presale on the day they were $1000; that was a great price even then, and 
> as of today it's even better!
>
> Dave (yes, that's my real name)
>
>>
>>

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F

[RBW] Re: Who rides an off-roadish Sam?

[Neil Doran]

Good stuff!

Deacon - I would love to try Jan's knobbies, but I think there is too much 
pavement in my world for a high-end knobbie. Based on my experience with 
Compass tires, they would wear too quickly.

I've always wanted to try Rock n Roads, but have always heard that they 
wear quickly and are loud/slow on roads. They sure look fun for the mud, 
tho!

RJM - the Chumba Terlingua has been on my radar, and wow! Custom steel for 
$1,500 sounds like a steal! I've also been ogling the All City Cosmic 
Stallion, and the Ibis Hakka MX. Of the three, I think I favor the 
Stallion. 

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

[Joe Bernard]

I, too, have bouts of "money from the sky" custom dreaming, but had to face 
reality: Even if I could afford one - I sorta can if I really committed - I'm 
much too low-mileage and casual of a rider to justify the effort. My new 
Cheviot is a spectacular bicycle which already has abilities far beyond my own; 
it's frankly astonishing that such a frame can be purchased for $1400, much 
less the pre-order $1000 I paid. Frankly I think production Rivs - Taiwan or 
MUSA - are still under-priced. 

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[MartyG]

Don't want to start a big thing here, but it seems to me that's outright theft. 
No different than seeing a car in the same spot for a while, breaking in and 
driving it off for "safe keeping". Not cool. Why not alert the proper 
authorities? My guess is even they would leave it be. No laws are being broken, 
right? If it gets stripped, that's too bad, but none of your business. Sorry to 
come across cold, but in my world this crosses a line, and if it was my bike 
and I saw this ad I would have the cops pay the C-lister a visit.

Marty

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

[Joe Bernard]

Ugh, too many "franklies" in that one. My kingdom for an edit feature!

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Kainalu V.]

I'm with Marty.
-Kai 
BK NY 

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[RBW] Are you using your real name on here?

[Joe Bernard]

My last name is 5 Fingers. Joe Bernard 5 Fingers, that's me. 

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Joe Bernard]

Well-intentioned, but kinda weird. It's not my business how long someone parks 
their bike. 

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Re: [RBW] Are you using your real name on here?

[Justin August]

Originator of the 5 Finger Discount!

On Feb 1, 2018, 9:37 AM -0800, Joe Bernard , wrote:
> My last name is 5 Fingers. Joe Bernard 5 Fingers, that's me.
>
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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Bill Lindsay]

It reminds me of a story from the late 80’s. Brian told me that he and his 
friends disapproved of guys who would go to ska-shows and start fights in the 
pit. These guys were looking for trouble. Brian’s solution was to go to shows 
with his friends, seek out those troublemakers, and ‘put them in the hospital 
‘.   

Me: Brian, doesn’t that mean you are going to shows, looking for trouble?  
Brian:  um  what?  

This guy is making the decision:  “I’m afraid that bike will be stolen, so I 
stole it to keep it from being stolen”

Bill Lindsay 
El Cerrito Ca

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[RBW] When your Rambouillet chainstay/dropout broke, were you...

[Lum Gim Fong]

..  using a 130, 132.5, or 135 rear wheel?

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[RBW] Re: Who rides an off-roadish Sam?

[EasyRider]

I don't have a Sam, but that picture of Roman's bike definitely nudged me 
toward getting the bronze Rosco Bubbe road last year. I currently run 
700x42 Cazaderos and like them just fine. I also considered the Simworks 
Homage and WTB Resolute (42) and the WTB Nano and Schwalbe Smart Sam (40). 
So many tires to choose from these days.


On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 11:57:03 AM UTC-5, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> Good stuff!
>
> Deacon - I would love to try Jan's knobbies, but I think there is too much 
> pavement in my world for a high-end knobbie. Based on my experience with 
> Compass tires, they would wear too quickly.
>
> I've always wanted to try Rock n Roads, but have always heard that they 
> wear quickly and are loud/slow on roads. They sure look fun for the mud, 
> tho!
>
> RJM - the Chumba Terlingua has been on my radar, and wow! Custom steel for 
> $1,500 sounds like a steal! I've also been ogling the All City Cosmic 
> Stallion, and the Ibis Hakka MX. Of the three, I think I favor the 
> Stallion. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Backpedal Braking

[Davey Two Shoes]

Everyone should have a fixed gear in their stable, It really improves and 
keeps sharp your fundamental riding skills!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[drew]

I don't know if i agree. A 3000$ bike, if truly and consistently left for 
weeks on end (and not just at the times that the person happens to drive by 
and see it), makes me think that something bad happened. Serious illness, 
injury, death... something that is preventing the owner from coming back to 
get it. I don't think i'd have stolen it back, but i do think that if/when 
the owner tries to retrieve it, they'll probably have better luck finding 
it in the bike community, than still locked up months later (i mean, 
realistically it wont last long.)

What i'm more curious about is how it wasn't stolen over weeks of sitting 
out.  I've had less nice bikes double u-locked and stolen while i was 
watching a movie. 

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[RBW] Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Jon Dukeman,central Colorado]

Can someone get a serial # and trace it back to Rivendell.

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[allenmichael]

Whatever this may have been, and whatever you may think about it, it was in no 
way theft. Theft always requires an intent to permanently deprive the owner of 
the property. 

Here, the bike was in, some sense, abandoned. A list member secured the bike 
and is making earnest efforts to find the owner. If it was my bike, I might be 
grateful. 

Michael Allen

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Kainalu V.]

But it's like letting the Orca starve because seals are so cute! Kind 
hearted do-gooders wouldn't be that without so much awful stuff in the 
world.
Not to say that we shouldn't be our best selves, but the fact is that's 
someone else's $3000 rusting away.
-Kai
BK NY


On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 1:33:16 PM UTC-5, drew wrote:
>
> I don't know if i agree. A 3000$ bike, if truly and consistently left for 
> weeks on end (and not just at the times that the person happens to drive by 
> and see it), makes me think that something bad happened. Serious illness, 
> injury, death... something that is preventing the owner from coming back to 
> get it. I don't think i'd have stolen it back, but i do think that if/when 
> the owner tries to retrieve it, they'll probably have better luck finding 
> it in the bike community, than still locked up months later (i mean, 
> realistically it wont last long.)
>
> What i'm more curious about is how it wasn't stolen over weeks of sitting 
> out.  I've had less nice bikes double u-locked and stolen while i was 
> watching a movie. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Are you using your real name on here?

[EasyRider]

I'd like to use my actual name but this isn't a 1990s listserv, it's a 
publicly searchable group. I'm not famous, or a public figure, or a 
teacher. I'd just rather not be an easy target for bad apples with basic 
keyword search abilities. That's why I "hide" behind a handle, not because 
I want to be an anonymous jerk to other RBW owners here.

On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 8:34:38 PM UTC-5, Bob K. wrote:
>
> My middle school students Google my name all the time—like, constantly. 
> They don’t need to be able to find anything else. Hence the last initial. 
>
> Bob K. in Baltimore

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Bill Lindsay]

Interesting. It isn’t theft if you take something that isn’t yours but don’t 
intend to permanently deprive the owner of the property.  

So I could take a bike that isn’t mine, use it for six months and put it back 
where I ‘found’ it without committing theft?  Is there a different statute I’ve 
broken in that situation?  

Bill Lindsay 
El Cerrito Ca

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[nash5510]

I wonder what this would be in a legal sense?  Would this legally be considered 
theft?  I don't know.  I assume it would be, regardless of intent.  

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[RBW] When your Rambouillet chainstay/dropout broke, were you...

[Bill Lindsay]

Absolutely 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

['kobe' via RBW Owners Bunch]

How would the owner even know to check Craigslist for his bike?

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Doug H.]

I might have left a note on the bike asking the owner to call you if they 
have parked it long term or just happen to have it parked when you go by 
the spot. I'm sure they would appreciate the concern if they see the note. 
Otherwise, not a good idea to cut a lock and take a bike in my estimation, 
even though your intentions are good.
Doug

On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 2:21:40 PM UTC-5, John A. Bennett wrote:
>
> A Sam Hillborne was spotted in the same spot for weeks on end until 
> someone finally cut the u-lock and posted this on Craigslist.
>
> As of now, as far as I know, the Craigslist poster has not heard from the 
> owner. 
>
> Anyone out there?
>
>
> https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/found-rivendell-sam-hillborne/6474538877.html
>
> All I know, 
>
> John, in Portland (who isn't really in on the whole thing, just posting 
> this here in the hopes it will raise owner) 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Joe Bunik]

When the Craiglist ad expires in ~2 weeks, who will remember it?
Poster should at least make VERY PUBLICLY CLEAR and known his/her
name, address, phone number-- maybe then "the community" will be
better able to help connect the owner back with their stolen property.

=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

On 2/1/18, Doug H.  wrote:
> I might have left a note on the bike asking the owner to call you if they
> have parked it long term or just happen to have it parked when you go by
> the spot. I'm sure they would appreciate the concern if they see the note.
> Otherwise, not a good idea to cut a lock and take a bike in my estimation,
> even though your intentions are good.
> Doug
>
> On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 2:21:40 PM UTC-5, John A. Bennett wrote:
>>
>> A Sam Hillborne was spotted in the same spot for weeks on end until
>> someone finally cut the u-lock and posted this on Craigslist.
>>
>> As of now, as far as I know, the Craigslist poster has not heard from the
>>
>> owner.
>>
>> Anyone out there?
>>
>>
>> https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/found-rivendell-sam-hillborne/6474538877.html
>>
>> All I know,
>>
>> John, in Portland (who isn't really in on the whole thing, just posting
>> this here in the hopes it will raise owner)
>>
>
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[RBW] Re: Are you using your real name on here?

['Norman Bone' via RBW Owners Bunch]

ER-I'm honestly curious. An 'easy target' for what? I'm having a hard time 
imagining harm coming from what I post here.
Thanks--Norman 'Mostly a good apple' Bone in Portland, OR

  From: EasyRider 
 To: RBW Owners Bunch  
 Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2018 11:17 AM
 Subject: [RBW] Re: Are you using your real name on here?
   
I'd like to use my actual name but this isn't a 1990s listserv, it's a publicly 
searchable group. I'm not famous, or a public figure, or a teacher. I'd just 
rather not be an easy target for bad apples with basic keyword search 
abilities. That's why I "hide" behind a handle, not because I want to be an 
anonymous jerk to other RBW owners here.

On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 8:34:38 PM UTC-5, Bob K. wrote:
My middle school students Google my name all the time—like, constantly. They 
don’t need to be able to find anything else. Hence the last initial.

Bob K. in Baltimore
-- 

   

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Jon Dukeman,central Colorado]

LOL 
 So there is this house that has had a car parked in front of the house for 
a month.Nobody has driven it.
You decide to take it in fear that someone might start  parting out the car 
and selling the parts.
You get caught with the car and you tell the police "Officer it was parked 
in front of that house for a month.
I just took it so nobody would steal it". Officer says " Oh Okay..Put your 
hands behind your back  .
Officer gets back to the station and tells his buddies." Hey you should of 
heard the excuse a guy gave me for stealing this car.



>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[RJM]

I do believe this is theft...might be well intentioned and the owner 
*might* get their bike bike but what does the person do if the owner can't 
be found? Bottom line is that the person cut the lock and took a bike that 
does not belong to them. 

But, it may work out for the best in the end provided the lock cutter 
actually gets in contact with the owner. He/She should have provided a real 
picture of the bike in question though and contact Riv to do a serial 
number search. 

I would not do what this person has done though. 

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 1:23:26 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Interesting. It isn’t theft if you take something that isn’t yours but 
> don’t intend to permanently deprive the owner of the property.   
>
> So I could take a bike that isn’t mine, use it for six months and put it 
> back where I ‘found’ it without committing theft?  Is there a different 
> statute I’ve broken in that situation?   
>
> Bill Lindsay 
> El Cerrito Ca

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

[Mark Anderson]

On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 5:19:00 PM UTC-6, Andrew Huston wrote:
>
> No, but making Hilsens and Hunqs in Taiwan batch-style, could make these 
> bikes more accessible with minimal quality decrease.


True, but that would require Riv to pre-order, and then stock, a very large 
number of frames.   Models like the Hilsen, Hunq, Roadeo come in many more 
sizes (8--12 or so, looking at the geometry tables) than Clems, Chevs, 
Sams, or Joes (3--5).  It would be a pretty big investment to build up that 
much stock and find a place to keep it all.  

Would those lower prices increase the sales volume enough to cover the 
costs of maintaining all that stock?  I don't know, but I doubt it.  If it 
were, then they could probably get pretty close to that volume with the 
current imported models, unless there's just a huge pent-up demand only for 
lower priced Roadeos and Hunqs that Sams and Joes (and Roadinis) simply 
cannot satisfy.  Maybe.

I think it's a hard problem for a small business like them.  

-- 
Mark 

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[RBW] Who rides an off-roadish Sam?

[C Sharp]

I have a green canti Sam set up with Alba’s and 38mm Paselas that I rode all 
throughout Golden Gate Park after I got it. It definitely felt like 
“underbiking” at some points, but I had trouble discerning whether that was due 
to my set up or to my poor trail skills :) . Either way, I had a blast. I’ve 
ridden it on some more california mountain climbs up fire roads, but agree that 
anything more gravelly or rooty than that gets tough. 

Cameron
New York

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[RBW] Re: Appaloosa Front-End Update

[Kainalu V.]

Tubus makes some very nice clamp on mounts to solve this problem very solidly, 
or you could use p-clamps without much worry. And to clear things up regarding 
this versus any other low rider tubus makes, none of them meet with Rivendell's 
mount location (which is there for many beautiful Nitto racks).
The touring store .com has the nice tubus clamps, and any hardware store or 
decent bike shop has the p-clamps.
-Kai 
BK NY 

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[John A. Bennett]

I have exchanged emails with the Craigslist poster, and a guy who lives in 
the neighborhood where this took place has spoken with him in person at his 
place of business. 

While I lack the proper tools to investigate/examine the inner workings of 
his mind/heart/soul/whatever your reference point, he seems legit and 
well-intentioned, and the person who spoke with him in person agrees. 

The fact that the owner of the bike in question has not surfaced lends 
credence to the tale, it seems. I know that if *my* bike was missing, I'd 
be all over Craigslist, bike forums, email lists, etc. looking for it. 

All I know,

John
Comrade, (But Not) Detective






On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 11:21:40 AM UTC-8, John A. Bennett wrote:
>
> A Sam Hillborne was spotted in the same spot for weeks on end until 
> someone finally cut the u-lock and posted this on Craigslist.
>
> As of now, as far as I know, the Craigslist poster has not heard from the 
> owner. 
>
> Anyone out there?
>
>
> https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/found-rivendell-sam-hillborne/6474538877.html
>
> All I know, 
>
> John, in Portland (who isn't really in on the whole thing, just posting 
> this here in the hopes it will raise owner) 
>

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[RBW] Re: Appaloosa Front-End Update

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I don't own one, but I believe the Tara Big Apple just has more tire 
clearance at the hoop than your Tara.  Either way, you'll need band clamps 
(rubber lined Nitto ones, or the Tubus bolt on adapters) to level the rack 
since the Riv spec upper mid fork mounts are not meant for traditional low 
riders, unfortunately.

Or

Trade/Sell your Tara and get Rivs HAR(Hub Area Rack) instead which is 
designed to mount directly to Riv spec fork mounts.

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 2:57:19 PM UTC-5, Liam Allen wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> Just found this and wanted to put my problem to you. 
> I've bought a TUBUS TARA Lowrider rack to put up the front of my 
> Appaloosa. I saw yours here so went ahead and bought one.
> However, I'm just reading your message below properly and think I've 
> realised my error. Yours is a Tara Big Apple, a different model. 
> This is the horror show I'm dealing with at the moment (see pic.) It ain't 
> gonna happen is it?!
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Liam  
>
> On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 9:16:13 PM UTC+2, J Imler wrote:
>>
>> Installed a Tubus Tara Big Apple on my Appaloosa. See pics for various 
>> intricacies. Mark's Rack sitting with up-angle allows for top of brake arm 
>> clearance under fork crown Nitto strut. Used Nitto clamps for mid-fork 
>> connection. I bought the Tubus mid-fork connection doodad but like the 
>> Nitto clamps much better. Those are Ortlieb Front Roller panniers. I loaded 
>> Joe with a multitude of my kid's library books for an initiation and 
>> thought it handled very well. See pics here: 
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwHqG1q8uHdcaUt6aTV6X296a0U/view?usp=sharing
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[drew]

yeah. If you've ever had a bike stolen and don't check craigslist, you 
either don't care to get it back or you are living in another age.  the ad 
can be re-upped with a click of a button. its not like you can only post 
something on craigslist once. the fact that we are all talking about it 
means that it has been advertised. none of us were looking for a stolen 
bike and even we know. imagine if you were looking. 

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[RBW] Re: Did you stop using Compass tires?

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

No. I use RTP on my Trekendell in non-winter months (just switched to 
Thunder Burts) and have had zero flats. I throw some Orange Seal in the 
tubes. Also no flats on my 700x38 Barlows. One flat on my 700x32 Stampedes. 
All are extra light versions. I don't put on mega miles, but right now 
probably have the most on the RTP and Barlows. Will try to save up for a 
pair of the 700x35 Bon Jon for my upcoming Ron Kitching rebuild. If I keep 
the Clementine, and strip it down to a single speed street and dirt bike, I 
would like to put on some Switchbacks.

On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 5:55:42 PM UTC-5, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> Why?
> What did you start using?
>

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[lconley]

I haven't had a bike stolen since 1977 and it would never have occurred to 
me to check Craigslist if I had one stolen up until I read this thread. 
Maybe the bike belongs to another clueless old guy like me.

Laing
Cocoa, FL

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 3:23:21 PM UTC-5, drew wrote:

> yeah. If you've ever had a bike stolen and don't check craigslist, you 
> either don't care to get it back or you are living in another age.  the ad 
> can be re-upped with a click of a button. its not like you can only post 
> something on craigslist once. the fact that we are all talking about it 
> means that it has been advertised. none of us were looking for a stolen 
> bike and even we know. imagine if you were looking. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[drew]

right, but if one did get stolen now, you'd probably convey that 
information to someone (maybe here on the group, maybe a bike shop), and 
that someone would probably ask you if you had checked craigslist. you 
wouldn't just give up on it and wander the streets, right?

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[lconley]

A year ago, I would have reported it to the police and given up on it (and 
maybe declared a theft loss on my tax return). I have never recovered 
anything that was stolen (including 3 bikes 1977 and earlier).

Laing

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 3:37:39 PM UTC-5, drew wrote:

> right, but if one did get stolen now, you'd probably convey that 
> information to someone (maybe here on the group, maybe a bike shop), and 
> that someone would probably ask you if you had checked craigslist. you 
> wouldn't just give up on it and wander the streets, right?
>

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[drew]

Gotcha. Well with both bikes and 2 wheelsets i've had stolen in the last 10 
years, each cop has told me to watch craigslist diligently. 

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[RBW] Re: Who rides an off-roadish Sam?

[Deacon Patrick]

You are right, Neil. The Compass nobbies wear faster than I’d like them to, but 
they also grip spectacularly. I’m happy to pay to trade up for that. I have a 
new pair of Barlows I’ll try once snow season passes (June), and compare which 
I prefer for six months of the year. The knobbies are brilliant on snow, so 
that’s an easy call. Also, the plush of the tires with the knobbies helps them 
feel like a 44 or so tire on the trails, loose gravel, etc. I know Jan says no 
difference between barlow and Steilacoom in loose gravel or sand, but I’ve 
found that when there is a wet layer under, knobbies grip better, which still 
jives with Jan as he says knobbies cut through the top layer to grip a firmer 
surface beneith. Greater adhesion of wet loose stuff under loose dry stuff on 
top. If that makes sense.

Curious to hear how you like whatever you try.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

['Norman Bone' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Apologies if this has been mentioned already.Let me take a moment to plug 
https://bikeindex.org/
The Portland cops check it and I imagine other jurisdictions do as well.
Norman 'Locked and unloaded' Bone in Portland, OR


  From: lconley 
 To: RBW Owners Bunch  
 Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2018 12:42 PM
 Subject: [RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon
   
A year ago, I would have reported it to the police and given up on it (and 
maybe declared a theft loss on my tax return). I have never recovered anything 
that was stolen (including 3 bikes 1977 and earlier).
Laing

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 3:37:39 PM UTC-5, drew wrote:
right, but if one did get stolen now, you'd probably convey that information to 
someone (maybe here on the group, maybe a bike shop), and that someone would 
probably ask you if you had checked craigslist. you wouldn't just give up on it 
and wander the streets, right?



   

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[RBW] Re: Are you using your real name on here?

[William R.]

I use my formal first name and first initial of my last. These are real. 
Then I sign with my more informal, what I go by of "Bill" and always say 
where I actually reside in Westchester, NY. That is the county that I live 
in. If someone really wanted to find me or mess with me they would have to 
figure out my last name and town/address. And then what a bust it would be, 
they would be so disappointed...

Bill in Westchester, NY

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[RBW] WTB: Knobbies (Cazaderos or Clement XPlors)

[Deacon Patrick]

Eric, I replied off list. I’ve a pair of Clement MSO 40’s with 1/3 life left on 
the rear, close to all left on the front.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Are you using your real name on here?

[EasyRider]

Hi Norman, I'd just rather limit the ability of strangers to link 
information gleaned from my random bloviations in a google group to other 
little bits and scraps of information about me from elsewhere. 

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 2:42:00 PM UTC-5, Norman Bone wrote:
>
> ER-
> I'm honestly curious. An 'easy target' for what? I'm having a hard time 
> imagining harm coming from what I post here.
>
> Thanks-
> -Norman 'Mostly a good apple' Bone in Portland, OR
>
>
> --
> *From:* EasyRider >
> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch > 
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 1, 2018 11:17 AM
> *Subject:* [RBW] Re: Are you using your real name on here?
>
> I'd like to use my actual name but this isn't a 1990s listserv, it's a 
> publicly searchable group. I'm not famous, or a public figure, or a 
> teacher. I'd just rather not be an easy target for bad apples with basic 
> keyword search abilities. That's why I "hide" behind a handle, not because 
> I want to be an anonymous jerk to other RBW owners here.
>
> On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 8:34:38 PM UTC-5, Bob K. wrote:
>
> My middle school students Google my name all the time—like, constantly. 
> They don’t need to be able to find anything else. Hence the last initial. 
>
>
> Bob K. in Baltimore
>
> -- 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Jeff Lesperance]

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 2:23 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Interesting. It isn’t theft if you take something that isn’t yours but
> don’t intend to permanently deprive the owner of the property.
>
> So I could take a bike that isn’t mine, use it for six months and put it
> back where I ‘found’ it without committing theft?  Is there a different
> statute I’ve broken in that situation?
>
>
IANAL but I'll be darned if I didn't just ask the googler what the legal
definition of theft is and the top results all appear to report similar
definitions from a number of sources... and I found it on the Internet, so
it must be true: "Theft is often defined as the unauthorized taking of
property from another with the intent to PERMANENTLY DEPRIVE THEM OF IT"
capitalization/yelling is my emphasis. Crazy, but sounds like you're in the
clear, Bill, to go on that six month joy ride, as long as you only
TEMPORARILY intend to deprive the owner of their bike. Good luck, enjoy the
ride, let us know how it works out.

In the interest of looking for a different statue that may be broken in
that situation, I searched "unauthorized borrowing" and only found legal
references to plagiarism. Not only am I not a lawyer, I'm also not an
author or writer, but I'm pretty sure any statutes regarding plagiarism
won't be in play for a bike ride :)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Are you using your real name on here?

[Justin August]

To each their own. The reality is that you use your first.last name@gmail email 
address to send to the group which can be obtained fairly easily. And the 
people who are really profiting off of linking up all that information already 
are doing so by using their servers and services.

-J

On Feb 1, 2018, 12:57 PM -0800, EasyRider , wrote:
> Hi Norman, I'd just rather limit the ability of strangers to link information 
> gleaned from my random bloviations in a google group to other little bits and 
> scraps of information about me from elsewhere.
>
> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 2:42:00 PM UTC-5, Norman Bone wrote:
> > ER-
> > I'm honestly curious. An 'easy target' for what? I'm having a hard time 
> > imagining harm coming from what I post here.
> >
> > Thanks-
> > -Norman 'Mostly a good apple' Bone in Portland, OR
> >
> >
> > From: EasyRider 
> > To: RBW Owners Bunch 
> > Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2018 11:17 AM
> > Subject: [RBW] Re: Are you using your real name on here?
> >
> > I'd like to use my actual name but this isn't a 1990s listserv, it's a 
> > publicly searchable group. I'm not famous, or a public figure, or a 
> > teacher. I'd just rather not be an easy target for bad apples with basic 
> > keyword search abilities. That's why I "hide" behind a handle, not because 
> > I want to be an anonymous jerk to other RBW owners here.
> >
> > On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 8:34:38 PM UTC-5, Bob K. wrote:
> > > My middle school students Google my name all the time—like, constantly. 
> > > They don’t need to be able to find anything else. Hence the last initial.
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob K. in Baltimore
> > --
> >
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Q7q5E9YJSfY/unsubscribe.
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Re: [RBW] Are you using your real name on here?

[lconley]

I wonder what the age distribution is between reals and aliases is. I think 
that the reals skews older, once you eliminate teachers - most teachers I 
know don't use social; media at all.

Laing


>>

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[RBW] When your Rambouillet chainstay/dropout broke, were you...

[ascpgh]

130mm. The wheel set of the orignal build from Rivendell when new. Axle not 
bent, I still have it. 

Right rear dropout broke. 

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1993/pages/54.htm

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

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Re: [RBW] Re: Are you using your real name on here?

[EasyRider]

Yup, it's more in my head than anything else.

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 4:00:12 PM UTC-5, Justin, Oakland wrote:
>
> To each their own. The reality is that you use your first.last name@gmail 
> email address to send to the group which can be obtained fairly easily. And 
> the people who are really profiting off of linking up all that information 
> already are doing so by using their servers and services.
>
> -J
>
> On Feb 1, 2018, 12:57 PM -0800, EasyRider  >, wrote:
>
> Hi Norman, I'd just rather limit the ability of strangers to link 
> information gleaned from my random bloviations in a google group to other 
> little bits and scraps of information about me from elsewhere.
>
> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 2:42:00 PM UTC-5, Norman Bone wrote: 
>>
>> ER-
>> I'm honestly curious. An 'easy target' for what? I'm having a hard time 
>> imagining harm coming from what I post here.
>>
>> Thanks-
>> -Norman 'Mostly a good apple' Bone in Portland, OR
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* EasyRider 
>> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 1, 2018 11:17 AM
>> *Subject:* [RBW] Re: Are you using your real name on here?
>>
>> I'd like to use my actual name but this isn't a 1990s listserv, it's a 
>> publicly searchable group. I'm not famous, or a public figure, or a 
>> teacher. I'd just rather not be an easy target for bad apples with basic 
>> keyword search abilities. That's why I "hide" behind a handle, not because 
>> I want to be an anonymous jerk to other RBW owners here.
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 8:34:38 PM UTC-5, Bob K. wrote: 
>>
>> My middle school students Google my name all the time—like, constantly. 
>> They don’t need to be able to find anything else. Hence the last initial. 
>>
>>
>> Bob K. in Baltimore
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Q7q5E9YJSfY/unsubscribe
> .
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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Ian A]

In your example, Bill, that would be taking something with the intent to 
deprive it from the owner, even if only for a period of time,which would be 
an offense.  The CL poster has openly declared his intention and he would 
probably be able to demonstrate to police or the actual owner that he 
believed the bicycle was abandoned following a theft and out of civic duty 
wanted to make the bicycle safe in order to return it to it's owner.

This is definitely made complicated by the cutting of the lock. However, if 
he and ill intention and wanted to ultimately keep the bike, he could have 
dropped it off at a police station, not mentioned the cutting of the lock 
and then in three months time or whatever, made a finder's claim for the 
bicycle. 

The CL lister's heart seems to be very much in the right place. He;s 
actually taken a bit of a risk in being charged with theft in order to help 
someone. Maybe he should have simply reported it to the police and left it 
at that, but realistically, the police would likely have done nothing.

IanA/Canada


On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 12:23:26 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Interesting. It isn’t theft if you take something that isn’t yours but 
> don’t intend to permanently deprive the owner of the property.   
>
> So I could take a bike that isn’t mine, use it for six months and put it 
> back where I ‘found’ it without committing theft?  Is there a different 
> statute I’ve broken in that situation?   
>
> Bill Lindsay 
> El Cerrito Ca

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Re: [RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Bill Lindsay]

Jeff

I did the identical googlings, for theft and unauthorized borrowing --> 
plagiarism.  It's like we used the same interwebz

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 12:59:20 PM UTC-8, Jeff wrote:
>
> On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 2:23 PM, Bill Lindsay  > wrote:
>
>> Interesting. It isn’t theft if you take something that isn’t yours but 
>> don’t intend to permanently deprive the owner of the property.
>>
>> So I could take a bike that isn’t mine, use it for six months and put it 
>> back where I ‘found’ it without committing theft?  Is there a different 
>> statute I’ve broken in that situation?
>>
>>
> IANAL but I'll be darned if I didn't just ask the googler what the legal 
> definition of theft is and the top results all appear to report similar 
> definitions from a number of sources... and I found it on the Internet, so 
> it must be true: "Theft is often defined as the unauthorized taking of 
> property from another with the intent to PERMANENTLY DEPRIVE THEM OF IT" 
> capitalization/yelling is my emphasis. Crazy, but sounds like you're in the 
> clear, Bill, to go on that six month joy ride, as long as you only 
> TEMPORARILY intend to deprive the owner of their bike. Good luck, enjoy the 
> ride, let us know how it works out.
>
> In the interest of looking for a different statue that may be broken in 
> that situation, I searched "unauthorized borrowing" and only found legal 
> references to plagiarism. Not only am I not a lawyer, I'm also not an 
> author or writer, but I'm pretty sure any statutes regarding plagiarism 
> won't be in play for a bike ride :) 
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

[George Cline]

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-roubaix-mclaren-dura-ace-di2/p/134255?color=240101-134255

Maybe lum was referring to something like this when calling out pricing:-$

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Bill Lindsay]

Ian

In my example I take it with the intent of temporarily depriving the 
owner.  Only six months!  If that's enough for 'theft' aka 'larceny', the 
why does the wording include 'permanent'.  I agree with your common sense 
interpretation, Ian, but I can't explain the legal wording.  I'm not a 
lawyer.  

BL

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 1:49:19 PM UTC-8, Ian A wrote:
>
> In your example, Bill, that would be taking something with the intent to 
> deprive it from the owner, even if only for a period of time,which would be 
> an offense.  The CL poster has openly declared his intention and he would 
> probably be able to demonstrate to police or the actual owner that he 
> believed the bicycle was abandoned following a theft and out of civic duty 
> wanted to make the bicycle safe in order to return it to it's owner.
>
> This is definitely made complicated by the cutting of the lock. However, 
> if he and ill intention and wanted to ultimately keep the bike, he could 
> have dropped it off at a police station, not mentioned the cutting of the 
> lock and then in three months time or whatever, made a finder's claim for 
> the bicycle. 
>
> The CL lister's heart seems to be very much in the right place. He;s 
> actually taken a bit of a risk in being charged with theft in order to help 
> someone. Maybe he should have simply reported it to the police and left it 
> at that, but realistically, the police would likely have done nothing.
>
> IanA/Canada
>
>
> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 12:23:26 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Interesting. It isn’t theft if you take something that isn’t yours but 
>> don’t intend to permanently deprive the owner of the property.   
>>
>> So I could take a bike that isn’t mine, use it for six months and put it 
>> back where I ‘found’ it without committing theft?  Is there a different 
>> statute I’ve broken in that situation?   
>>
>> Bill Lindsay 
>> El Cerrito Ca
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Ian A]

Bill: Borrowing without intent is an interesting argument, but I imagine a 
judge would not be easily convinced that it wasn't intention to permanently 
deprive. 

IanA - also not a lawyer. Since when has common sense ever prevailed? Certainly 
rarely in my life!

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Bill Lindsay]

Here's another one:

I find a quarter on the street.  I take it without consent, with the intent 
to permanently deny the rightful owner of that property

I find a $20 bill on the street.  I take it without consent, with the 
intent to permanently deny the rightful owner of that property

I find $20,000 on the street.  I take it without consent, with the intent 
to permanently deny the rightful owner of that property

Are any of these 'theft'?   Probably.  Are they all 'theft'?  There's the 
'petty theft' and 'grand theft' distinction, but I guess it's either all 
theft, or none of it is.  

B

p.s. I hope  I never find $20,000, because I'd want to keep it.  

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 2:14:26 PM UTC-8, Ian A wrote:
>
> Bill: Borrowing without intent is an interesting argument, but I imagine a 
> judge would not be easily convinced that it wasn't intention to permanently 
> deprive. 
>
> IanA - also not a lawyer. Since when has common sense ever prevailed? 
> Certainly rarely in my life!
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

[Joe Bernard]

Cool color. I wonder how much you're paying for McLaren to brand a bicycle they 
otherwise had no involvement in. 

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[MartyG]

Many Super Blue Blood Moons ago, I penned this quaint verse for the now 
lost and forgotten A. Homer Hilsen website. Kind of apropos to bring it up 
in this thread, don't you think? 



*The Resurrection of A. Homer Hilsen*


There it was, there it sat.

Bars akimbo, tires flat.

 

Cluster missing, saddle worn. 

Dangling hemp-wrap. Dusty. Torn.

 

Rubbed the down-tube, read the name:

A. Homer Hilsen – of Rivendell fame. 

 

I knelt to worship and wondered why.

Lost, or stolen? Left to die?

 

Who would leave it? Could I? Could You?

I asked around, nobody knew.

 

I felt linked like a chain to its ultimate fate,

the local bike shop was open ‘till eight…

 

They told me the story of a man dressed in wool.

He lived in the country, his glass always half full.

 

The bike was his passion, his comfort, his dream.

Fittings for Mark’s rack, lugs filled with cream.

 

But no one had seen him, at least for a while.

The man had moved on. My lips cracked a small smile. 

 

I asked the police what the policy was.

They showed me the poster: Auction by Fuzz.

 

I showed up quite early, on the day of the deal.

Misty and quiet, the sky painted like steel. 

 

I noticed the Hilsen being eyed by a punk,

mixed in with the lawnmowers, car parts and junk.

 

He grabbed a brake lever and gave it a tug,

Spat on a pedal, then moved on with a shrug.

 

The auction moved slowly, through toilets and tools,

Something for everyone: the dealers, the fools.

 

And then it was up there, wheeled up by a cop.

The pads squealed on the front rim. It came to a stop.

The bidding began with the auctioneers’ pitch:

“A handsome blue bike for the not quite so rich!”

 

It was me and the punk, and a man I could see

who was standing alone near a lone Redwood tree.

 

It had to be mine. I just had to win.

To let Homer go home without me was a sin!  

 

The punk shrugged again when three figures were spoke.

Fished through his pockets, confirmed he was broke.

 

I looked near the tree, heard the faint ping of a bell,

The auctioneer paused, raised the gavel. It fell. 

 

“It’s mine! Can’t believe it!” My grin ear to ear.

I cashed out in seconds, lost a fight with a tear.

 

I wheeled Hilsen homeward and vowed to be kinder.

Put him up on my work stand and loosened the binder.

 

I thought about fate, how I won, how I got’m.

Flipped the frame in the stand to examine the bottom.

 

As soon as the upside was more downside than most,

A small rolled up paper fluttered out from the post:

 

*“I’m happy you own me, the pleasure’s all mine.*

*That punk would’ve stripped me and sold me for wine.”*

 

*“Now we can share them, those days on the road.*

*Losing all count of the friendships we sowed.”*

 

*“You see, I’m attracted to people like you;*

*People who dream of a journey or two.”   *

*  A.H.H.*

 

I’m sure when I’m older, my legs tired of turning,

I’ll think of this day; of the joy and the yearning.

 

I’ll pass it along to a like-minded good soul;

dusty and weathered, but ready to roll.

 

The bike will live on, with new stories to tell;

new owner, new road, and the faint ping of a bell.

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[RBW] Re: Have a Sub 20lb Roadeo?

[Bill Lindsay]

This is the 145 gram saddle that works for me.  The Selle Italia SLR 
Titanium:  https://www.selleitalia.com/en/saddles/slr-titanium-black/

BL in EC

On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 8:02:58 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>
> The 220 gram Flite saddle works for me, but the 145 gram also works for 
> me.  
>

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[RBW] Re: Fancy grip-making (starring my bike!)

[Joe Bernard]

I got my bike back and the grips are awesome! As I expected it's not a super 
huge handful - good because I have small hands - and it's not overly cushy 
either. The ballcocks thing is a revelation: I expected the "hand stop" 
feature, but not the way you can rest your hands over them kinda like a hoods 
position. There's that air gap over the levers which relieves pressure when you 
transition from the grip. I never in a million years would have thought of 
trying this. See pics here!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NmXCbvDKbxuxwrmL2

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Christopher Murray]

I think it is technically theft but the person’s intentions matter here AND 
would matter a great deal to the police and/or judge. How many times has 
someone posted on this list that they bought a Rivendell because they suspected 
it was stolen? There was one only a few weeks ago. Purchasing stolen goods is a 
crime. No one ever says that in those posts and in fact there is an abundance 
of praise heaped on the person. 

I say this guy deserves the benefit of the doubt. Even if he is wrong, I’d have 
a hard time being too mad at him If it was my bike. 

Chris

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[sameness]

Marty, that was a truly excellent read. I really, really liked it. Thank 
you!

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 2:47:50 PM UTC-8, MartyG wrote:
>
>
> Many Super Blue Blood Moons ago, I penned this quaint verse for the now 
> lost and forgotten A. Homer Hilsen website. Kind of apropos to bring it up 
> in this thread, don't you think? 
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

[phil k]

Yes that is ridiculous, but a "cheaper" way to own a "McLaren"

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[RBW] Ever Green and Filigree White

[Deacon Patrick]

In which a wee recovery ride in the spleandour of the wilds at the edge of the 
tame passes through winter’s wimpy icy grip.
https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/ever-green-and-filigree-white

With abandon,
Patrick

www.CredoFamily.org
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[MartyG]

Like most cities, Portland has a policy:

If you know of a bicycle that has been left in the public right-of-way for 
more than 72 hours, please call (503) 823-9863 or use the online form 
 to report it as 
abandoned.


Please email sarah.goforth@portlandoregon.govwith the specific location of 
the bike, a description of the bike, whether it's moved in the past 72 
hours, and what it's locked to (street sign, bike rack, etc.). 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Eric Norris]

I agree with the idea to post a notice where the bike was letting the owner 
know how to contact you. If they were somehow unable to get to their bike for a 
few weeks (maybe in a coma?) and then went back to retrieve it, there should be 
some way for them to find it.

--Eric N
Twitter/Instagram/YouTube: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On Feb 1, 2018, at 11:37 AM, Joe Bunik  wrote:
> 
> When the Craiglist ad expires in ~2 weeks, who will remember it?
> Poster should at least make VERY PUBLICLY CLEAR and known his/her
> name, address, phone number-- maybe then "the community" will be
> better able to help connect the owner back with their stolen property.
> 
> =- Joe Bunik
> Walnut Creek, CA
> 
>> On 2/1/18, Doug H.  wrote:
>> I might have left a note on the bike asking the owner to call you if they
>> have parked it long term or just happen to have it parked when you go by
>> the spot. I'm sure they would appreciate the concern if they see the note.
>> Otherwise, not a good idea to cut a lock and take a bike in my estimation,
>> even though your intentions are good.
>> Doug
>> 
>>> On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 2:21:40 PM UTC-5, John A. Bennett wrote:
>>> 
>>> A Sam Hillborne was spotted in the same spot for weeks on end until
>>> someone finally cut the u-lock and posted this on Craigslist.
>>> 
>>> As of now, as far as I know, the Craigslist poster has not heard from the
>>> 
>>> owner.
>>> 
>>> Anyone out there?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/found-rivendell-sam-hillborne/6474538877.html
>>> 
>>> All I know,
>>> 
>>> John, in Portland (who isn't really in on the whole thing, just posting
>>> this here in the hopes it will raise owner)
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [RBW] Rivendell prices going up.

[Eric Daume]

Disappointed because Salsa used to make everything in Taiwan, and I would
rather support a small, semi-independent island rather than a Communist
regime.

On the other hand, I've been to China, and found everybody I encountered to
be very nice and helpful. So maybe I shouldn't look down on Chinese stuff.
There's plenty of it in my household already.

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Why is this disappointing? (That's a question, not a scolding.)
>
> On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Eric Daume  wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> Who was disappointed to find the new Timberjack frames were indeed made
>> in China
>>
>>
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[RBW] WTB: Quill Stem 26.0, 80MM

[Bob Warner]

Looking for a silver quill stem with 26.0 clamp & approx 80mm reach.  
Ideally, would like one with a 2 bolt / removable faceplate (ala Salsa 
SUL)  Anyone have something like this they want to unload??  Looking to 
build up a Sam Hillborne frameset I just bought.

thanks
Bob

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[RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Ruben Flores]

This reminds me of a funny story from about 15 years ago. A friend of mine 
was a researcher at UCLA. She lived in a large apartment building near the 
campus. At some point she noticed a nicer than campus bike locked on a 
stair handrail. Sat there for months (or so she thought). One day a note 
appeared 'going to paint building, need to move bike' with a deadline a 
couple of weeks away. The bike didn't move, she called her boyfriend at the 
time who came over with a torch and cut the locks. Customized the bike and 
my friend was using it as a campus cruiser. 

A few weeks go by, the building painting was completed and one day she goes 
out to "her" bike and it is gone and back where it was originally. It was 
there unlocked and thinks maybe her friends are playing a joke, rides the 
bike and locks it back by her apartment.

When she comes out the next morning there is a nasty note on the bike to 
leave it alone or else..

I am just saying, she never remember it moving but I guess maybe it did.

Ruben in So Cal

On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 11:21:40 AM UTC-8, John A. Bennett wrote:

> A Sam Hillborne was spotted in the same spot for weeks on end until 
> someone finally cut the u-lock and posted this on Craigslist.
>
> As of now, as far as I know, the Craigslist poster has not heard from the 
> owner. 
>
> Anyone out there?
>
>
> https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/found-rivendell-sam-hillborne/6474538877.html
>
> All I know, 
>
> John, in Portland (who isn't really in on the whole thing, just posting 
> this here in the hopes it will raise owner) 
>

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[RBW] Re: Are you using your real name on here?

[Jeffrey Arita]

Yes.  Partially.

Jeff Arita

On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 2:52:31 PM UTC-8, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> Yea or nay?

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[RBW] Re: Who rides an off-roadish Sam?

[Austin B]

@Neil -- The 700x42 Cazaderos run under my Tektro 559's just fine on my 
Sam. They ride nicely for knobbies and are enough for the offroading I do 
(I don't like rooty, rocky MTB trails).

My thinking is the same as yours, even using Roman's photo as inspiration. 
My 62cm Sam's a little offroady now with the Cazaderos, short-drop Soma Hwy 
1 bars (I still want to try Albastache) as an alternative to the Noodles, 
and I went to a IRD (Sheriff) Lobo 46/30 double crankset. I've also swapped 
with black components from my other bikes (wheels, crankset, seatpost) just 
for something different than what it's been. And I flip between spd's and 
platform pedals when the mood strikes me for a change.

Austin
Eldersburg, MD

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[RBW] Re: Fancy grip-making (starring my bike!)

['Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Joe:

I love the look of the bike.  The seagulls also seem impressed :)

Thanks for the pictures.

Ann 

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[RBW] FS: '84 Stumpjumper

[ant ritchey]

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/84-specialized-stumpjumper/6471890254.html

The CL post spells it all out. $500 + shipping. Possible delivery from 
Seattle to Ashland. PM for more information.

Current trade interest list: Fabio's Chest, large Gransfors Bruk, nice 
silver/polished 650b wheels, Son Schmidt dyno hub, 66cm road/rando frame

Thanks for lookin' y'all.

-Ant Ritchey / PDX

Just posted this to iBob, dunno if it's silly to post this here but i'm 
doing it out of paranoia that some interested young Rivster hasn't heard of 
the whole iBob thing.

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell prices going up.

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Yeah, let's not go down the "regimes" rabbit hole. The world is very very 
complicated. RBW Owners Bunch a tad less so.

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 7:35:15 PM UTC-5, Eric Daume wrote:
>
> Disappointed because Salsa used to make everything in Taiwan, and I would 
> rather support a small, semi-independent island rather than a Communist 
> regime.
>
> On the other hand, I've been to China, and found everybody I encountered 
> to be very nice and helpful. So maybe I shouldn't look down on Chinese 
> stuff. There's plenty of it in my household already.
>
> On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Patrick Moore  > wrote:
>
>> Why is this disappointing? (That's a question, not a scolding.)
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Eric Daume > > wrote:
>>
>>> [...]
>>> Who was disappointed to find the new Timberjack frames were indeed made 
>>> in China 
>>>
>>>
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell prices going up.

[Joe Bernard]

I could make a case that buying from the US regime is a little dicey at the 
moment so...yeah. 

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[RBW] Re: Did you stop using Compass tires?

[Kieran J]

I've had a couple pairs of the Gen. 1 Barlow Passes. I like them, but not 
that much more than the Jack Brown Greens they replaced. I do admit they 
have a nice silky ride.

The main downside over the JBGs in my experience was that the Compasses 
were harder to mount perfectly round with no lumps. I found this on a few 
different rims, in spite of some of the outlandish "mounting solutions" 
discussed here and elsewhere over time. I haven't experienced that with 
other supple/supple-ish tires like Schwalbe Thunder Burts and Clement MSO, 
and it is so irritating it takes most of the enjoyment out of the supple 
tire experience. Some other Panaracer tires have exhibited this for me too 
(Soma B-Line, Soma Supple Vitesse, Col de la Vie) but interestingly, not 
the JBGs.

Now that I live on the Wet Coast, I may have to downsize to 700x28s and 
fenders for my previously-unfendered road bike. I've thought about going 
with some EL Compass Chinook Passes but those tires (and the rest of the EL 
variants) cost CAD$100+ *PER TIRE* here in Canada. Ummm!

KJ


On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 2:55:42 PM UTC-8, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> Why?
> What did you start using?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Waterford Built 64cm Atlantis Frameset

[Keith Muller]

Frameset is sold!  Thanks all!

Keith

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[RBW] Re: Fancy grip-making (starring my bike!)

[tc]

That bike looks so awesome!  Roman's post says you have a flipped Albatross 
bar, but it's a Choco bar, right?

I have decided to first try a flipped Albatross bar on my S1.  I was 
waffling, but saw some pic's, and this article on Lovely Bicycle 
:

On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 11:10:08 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I dropped my Cheviot off with Grant after seeing his grip-stylin' on the 
> Clem L he built up. Now I have a nifty pictorial of how he did it for my 
> bike! 
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/grips-the-hard-way-how-to
>
> Joe Bernard
> Novato CA. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Who rides an off-roadish Sam?

[Surlyprof]

Neil,

I took Riv's advice from a Blug post a couple of years ago and bought 
700x45 Smart Sams for my 56 orange canti-Sam.  They've been wonderful, 
bouncy fun on trails.  Two things that surprised me: they are much more 
supple than I expected and much quieter on the roads (only some expected 
buzz when leaning into a turn).  They have delivered Schwalbe durability 
(no flats in 2 years).  I've been using them on my heavier duty wheelset 
which are 36h A719s on Phil hubs.  Pretty heavy wheelset but on trails I 
almost don't feel like I'm underbiking.  Here's a photo: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/129545862@N03/19238298132/in/dateposted-public/

John

sday, January 31, 2018 at 2:45:50 PM UTC-8, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> I've always loved riding my Sam in the dirt, and regularly 'underbike' my 
> Sam and my Surly commuter through all manner of trail. Love it.
>
> But a big mixed-terrain ride a few weeks back got me thinking about a more 
> dirt-capable build. Roman's bike also serves as fodder for the idea:
>
>
>
> Really, the lynch pin is high-volume knobbies, and I think the Cazaderos 
> are the ones to try. Roman thinks they will fit under 559s. I'm thinking 
> knobbie tires, a short-reach drop bar rather than Noodles, and maybe even 
> brifters. I'm not manly enough to go 1x, but a hi-lo double might be sweet.
>
> The alternative is a new bike (disk brakes, 650B with room for fatties), 
> which I really shouldn't do.
>
> Let me know what you have done to off-road your Sam!
>

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[RBW] Re: Fancy grip-making (starring my bike!)

[Joe Bernard]

Oh wow, I got a full pictorial spread! From now on it will be known as my 
Cheviot Scorcher, a great name from a great old Ibis I've always wanted. 

Yes, it's a flipped Choco with an inch lopped off the ends. 

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[RBW] FS: new derailleurs and sackville mudflaps

[Birdman]

Hey bunch,

Making some last minute changes in the Atlantis build. My loss is your 
potential gain.

All items are new, but without original packaging.

Deore m591 rear derailleur unused $30 shipped

IRD Alpina-d triple front derailleur with clamp unused $40 shipped

Pair of unused grey sackville mudflaps $30 shipped

Pics here: https://www.instagram.com/isaacenloe/

Thanks,

Isaac in PDX 

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[RBW] Re: Have a Sub 20lb Roadeo?

[ted]

Bill,

I don't know that there is a point.
I am not trying to test you.
I do not want to bicker about whether some part is "dumb" or not.
I do not want you to design a build list for me.
I don't think you are wrong, and I'm not out to prove anything.

I am interested in the reasoning behind your statement. I am interested in 
what component choices you might make on your own Roadeo to get down to 
19lbs that you would not make if you were only shooting for say 20 or 
21lbs, and I am interested if there are options you think of that would get 
it even lower but that you reject because you find them "dumb", and what 
those options might be.

I believe you have now covered all that very nicely in your post, which I 
appreciate.
Sorry about wasting/killing so much of your time.

thanks
Ted




On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 8:02:58 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>
> Ted
>
> I'm not sure what the point is, exactly.  Are you trying to test me on all 
> possible bike parts, looking for me to say some part is 'not dumb', so you 
> can say "gotcha! that part IS dumb!" ?  Do you sincerely want me to design 
> your build list for you because you want to build a 19 pound Roadeo and 
> don't know how to do it?  Do you suspect I'm wrong and you want to prove 
> that I can't build a 19 pound Roadeo?  Or are we just killing time because 
> it's Winter?  
>
> Whatever it is, you are right that I have better things to do than to 
> design a proper and complete build list in the way I normally approach 
> builds.  I approach builds with a lot of forethought and deliberation, and 
> I've gotten pretty good at it.  I'm not going to design a Roadeo build for 
> you, but I'll give you something in the ballpark.  
>
> My 59cm Black Mountain Cycles Road bike weighs 20.2 lbs (9171g) as 
> pictured:
>
>
> 
>
>
> I categorize everything in five buckets:
>
> A. Frameset (59cm BMC Road + Cane Creek 50 headset)
> B. Wheelset (HED rims, 32 spokes, White Industries hubs, Challenge Eroica 
> tires, SRAM 1070 cassette, standard tubes) 
> C. Drivetrain (Herse Cranks, White Industries Ti BB, Shimano SPD pedals, 
> Dura Ace 10 F+R ders, Dura Ace downtube shifters, SRAM 1091 chain)
> D. Components (Flite saddle, ultegra seatpost, Nitto Soba handlebars, 
> Civia Bryant stem, Shimano mid reach brakes, customized tektro brakelevers, 
> newbaums tape)
> E. Accessories (bell, two ti cages)
>
> A 19 pound Roadeo needs to be 545 grams lighter.  I assume the Roadeo 
> frameset is a hair lighter than my $600 Black Mountain frameset, but I 
> don't know for sure.  Assume they are the same.  I would save some weight 
> by running a not-dumb all-metal wheelset.  I think carbon wheels are dumb.  
> Carbon sucks as a braking surface, and carbon clinchers with a metal 
> braking surface are neither light nor affordable.  My current favorite 
> not-dumb wheelset is the HED Ardennes Plus.  Its a 1610g wheelset, with 
> 25mm wide tubeless ready metal rims.  Everybody smarts regards those rims 
> as bomber, and Jenson sells the wheelset for $349.  not-dumb-wheels 
>   That 
> would drop about 150 grams.  I'd run Chinook Pass EL tires and light tubes, 
> which would drop another 150 grams.  The 220 gram Flite saddle works for 
> me, but the 145 gram also works for me.  A Dura Ace cassette which is 
> half-ti costs $189 but it saves another 75 grams or so.  Don't run a bell, 
> and a nice steel threadless stem would weigh about 70 grams less than the 
> one I have.  That puts me right at 19 pounds with nothing dumb.  I think 
> that maybe VO Gran Cru brake calipers might be a little lighter than the 
> Shimanos, but whatever.  There are plenty of lighter 'road' pedals, but 
> whatever.  My customized brakelevers might seem dumb.  I customized them to 
> improve the shape and for the fun of the look, but it also reduced the 
> weight to just under 100g per lever.  SRAM carbon levers weigh more like 
> 125 grams per lever, and I could go find 50 grams somewhere else.  If the 
> $2400 Roadeo is in fact a few grams lighter than the $595 Black Mountain, 
> then I'd be ahead of the game.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 4:01:56 PM UTC-8, ted wrote:
>>
>> Bill,
>> You seem to ask what I was asking.
>> I am wondering what you think is dumb when it comes to building a light 
>> Roadeo. I.e. what choices could you make that would make it lighter that 
>> you would chose not to make because you think it would be dumb.
>> I would also be interested if you would suggest a build list that results 
>> in a sub 19lb Roadeo, but that seems like a bit much to ask. I expect 
>> you've got better things to do.
>>
>> Regards
>> Ted
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Houseless Sam Hillborne in Portland, Oregon

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Bill, I'm sure you'd return the money if you knew that it came from someone
who lost everything:

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/22/world/la-fg-japan-returned-money-20110923

This reminds me of the scores of unlocked bikes I saw in Tokyo--even the
locked bikes I remember were not locked to anything.  They might have a
cable lock through the frame and front tire, but not secured.

Toshi


On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 2:21 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Here's another one:
>
> I find a quarter on the street.  I take it without consent, with the
> intent to permanently deny the rightful owner of that property
>
> I find a $20 bill on the street.  I take it without consent, with the
> intent to permanently deny the rightful owner of that property
>
> I find $20,000 on the street.  I take it without consent, with the intent
> to permanently deny the rightful owner of that property
>
> Are any of these 'theft'?   Probably.  Are they all 'theft'?  There's the
> 'petty theft' and 'grand theft' distinction, but I guess it's either all
> theft, or none of it is.
>
> B
>
> p.s. I hope  I never find $20,000, because I'd want to keep it.
>
>
> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 2:14:26 PM UTC-8, Ian A wrote:
>>
>> Bill: Borrowing without intent is an interesting argument, but I imagine
>> a judge would not be easily convinced that it wasn't intention to
>> permanently deprive.
>>
>> IanA - also not a lawyer. Since when has common sense ever prevailed?
>> Certainly rarely in my life!
>>
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