Re: [RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
I think what a lot of us who were following didn't know at the time was that the frames called Rivendell were moving up to a higher level. During and before the switch away from Waterford for the frames called Rivendell, the frames were not called custom. In hindsight, it is easy to see the hierarchy of the frames that followed (custom, Toyo-built, eventual production-Waterford-built, etc.), but no way to see that at the time. - Jim W. On Nov 11, 2011, at 9:52 AM, Greg J wrote: > While we're strolling down memory lane, I find it ironic that when Grant > transitioned from Waterford to Joe S (and Curt G and other individual > builders), he had to make a pretty hard sell. I think back then, many > people, myself included, saw Waterford as the established and having the best > manufacturing facility, and questioned whether a less-known single builder > would be up to the task. Now we believe that Waterford is a "production" > shop, and the single-builder artisan bikes show more craftsmanship, attention > to detail, are one-offs, etc. > > Greg > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/4yFC7Hcc2qwJ. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
While we're strolling down memory lane, I find it ironic that when Grant transitioned from Waterford to Joe S (and Curt G and other individual builders), he had to make a pretty hard sell. I think back then, many people, myself included, saw Waterford as the established and having the best manufacturing facility, and questioned whether a less-known single builder would be up to the task. Now we believe that Waterford is a "production" shop, and the single-builder artisan bikes show more craftsmanship, attention to detail, are one-offs, etc. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/4yFC7Hcc2qwJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
I *really* don't understand the problem people have with this ad, every time it comes up. It's not an Atlantis and has nothing to do with the Atlantis as far as I can tell. It's not an All-Rounder of the era. If it is indeed a test run of the Long Low (e.g. between prototype and production) then it's from about 1995 or so. Grant did sell those frames- prototypes and such- as what they were via the catalog/Reader. No reason for him to keep them hanging around RWHQ taking up space and gathering dust. There's money tied up in them and the lifeblood of a business is cash flow. I think the price is too high for what it is, as mentioned in another post, but that's the only issue I see with the ad. Someone else may think that it is a great value and snap it up. I bet it rides great, since every Riv I've ever been on rides great. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
Seller stresses in the ad that its a pre-production bike--I wonder, given the color and overall look if its a Prototype or precursor of the Atlantis, or a transitional test mule between the longlow and the Atlantis. The add is a little be schizophrenic to me--seller stresses its uniqueness, it's non-stock/prototype origins but insists it is not for collectors. He repeatedly points out the low mileage but also indicates that it is meant to be ridden and not hung in someones museum...strange. Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/NoKXTU2Hck4J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
Good points, Greg. I've just tonight been going through some old RRs and catalogues... confirmed I still have all from the first few years, and only missing a couple of later issues (they must be around here somewhere!) But this thread has been a trove of nuggets on the "early" years of Riv frames. And I'm enjoying every small detail that's brought forth. - Andrew, Berkeley On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Greg J wrote: > Perhaps stating the obvious, but: > > Just because it is that Atlantis color doesn't make it an Atlantis. I > doubt that the seller would call it a Long-Low if it says Atlantis on the > downtube. Atlantis was derived as a lower-cost A/R, built by Toyo in Japan > and intentionally given a different name (Atlantis) to distinguish it from > a Rivendell model. And I think the 700c Atlantises came later; originally > they were 26". While it's possible that the geometry/ride of this > particular bike may be similar to or even identical to an Atlantis, if it > sports a Riv label on the downtube, it is not an Atlantis b/c it was not > made in Japan. > > While we're on the subject, I'm looking at Riv Catalog No. 4 from Summer > 1998/March 1999, and Catalog No. 5 from Summer-Winter 1999 in front of me, > and both have pics of 2 different Long Lows with cantis, for you > nonbelievers. The LL is described as having a bigger tire clearance (up to > 38c), longer stays, little relaxed angles, and cantis (because at that > time, there were no std reach brakes available). in fact, Cat. 5 has a std > geometry table for the A/R, Road Std, and LL. > > So I think it's really unfair to keep on calling this an Atlantis. There > was a real Long Low model that was built by Joe S, and if this is one, then > I think that's a very fair price for a great bike. > > Greg > > - > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
Checked out the bike. It is like new apart from the minor indentation. The guy is friendly, no pressure, took it for a little ride. He says it was the first complete Long low by Waterford/Grant, a run through to make sure everything on the production line was set. I have no reason to believe otherwise. The bike fit well, but not a standout for the money being asked, then again being new to this I have not got a particular preference for RBW. I think if I offered something he might be offended by the price, seeing as how high it started at. Nice bike for someone though. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
We have a winner! Besides, that's not the Atlantis color. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/Lq2lAMN3CK8J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
Perhaps stating the obvious, but: Just because it is that Atlantis color doesn't make it an Atlantis. I doubt that the seller would call it a Long-Low if it says Atlantis on the downtube. Atlantis was derived as a lower-cost A/R, built by Toyo in Japan and intentionally given a different name (Atlantis) to distinguish it from a Rivendell model. And I think the 700c Atlantises came later; originally they were 26". While it's possible that the geometry/ride of this particular bike may be similar to or even identical to an Atlantis, if it sports a Riv label on the downtube, it is not an Atlantis b/c it was not made in Japan. While we're on the subject, I'm looking at Riv Catalog No. 4 from Summer 1998/March 1999, and Catalog No. 5 from Summer-Winter 1999 in front of me, and both have pics of 2 different Long Lows with cantis, for you nonbelievers. The LL is described as having a bigger tire clearance (up to 38c), longer stays, little relaxed angles, and cantis (because at that time, there were no std reach brakes available). in fact, Cat. 5 has a std geometry table for the A/R, Road Std, and LL. So I think it's really unfair to keep on calling this an Atlantis. There was a real Long Low model that was built by Joe S, and if this is one, then I think that's a very fair price for a great bike. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/rQUa_2nOhJMJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
The bike in the picture sure LOOKS like an Atlantis to me... On another point that was brought up: As far as I know, Atlantises have always had the 26"/700C split between 56 cm and 58 cm frame sizes. We had a very low serial-number 58 in here awhile back, and it was indeed 700c. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/AYCuQbhUYk8J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
-Original Message- >Subject: [RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist > >>The canti long-lows were called all all-arounders. > This is not correct. The All-Rounder and the Longlow were two different frames with two different geometries. The All-Rounder was closer to proper touring with longer chainstays and 26" wheels in the smaller sizes. The Longlow was always considered a 700C road bike, "sport-touring" bike actually, with longer chainstays than the mainstream, but still shorter than a proper tourer like the All-Rounder. All-Rounder is like Atlantis and Longlow is like Rambouillet. The fact that some Longlows came with cantis did not change the distinctions above, so a canti-Longlow was not called an All-Rounder, at least not with a capital A-R. If stated lower case, as in all-rounder, then you could probably say that almost all Rivendells have had all-rounder qualities. -Jim W. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
On Nov 10, 2011, at 1:00 PM, tdusky wrote: > The canti long-lows were called all all-arounders. I have a 1996 All-Rounder and it is not the same bike as a Long-Low. The original All-Rounders were all 26" wheel bikes with cantis and were based on the ideas behind the Bridgestone XO-1. It was designed to allow the use of 2" knobbies down to 1" slicks. The All-Rounder was one of the first three original Rivendell models (Road, Mountain and All-Rounder). The A/R used (IIRC) larger a diameter top tube but I think the same diameter down tube as the Road, whereas I think the Mountain used oversize top and down tubes (could be wrong about that, my recollection about those details is fuzzy). The Long-Lows came along a year or two later, I think about the time I placed my order (I vaguely recall Grant alerting me to the new model in between my placing the order and production starting. I stuck with the A/R but in retrospect should have gone with the Long-Low for the uses I have ended up putting it to). The Long-Lows were 700C bikes with long-reach sidepulls, although as some folks have mentioned they could be ordered with cantis; I don't remember if that was an option from the get-go. They were designed as road bikes with a lot of clearance for fenders and/or fat tires, much more so than the Road model of the day. They had a lower BB and a longer wheelbase (hence "Long-Low") than the Roads but used (IIRC) the same tubing. None of the original 3 models or the Long-Low were initially conceived of as custom frames. However, Grant started doing tweaks for individual uyers early on and pretty quickly the bikes became customs. In those days it was all 753 with 531 forks . The Atlantis is a several-years-later bike based mostly on the All-Rounder and the XO-1 before it. My recollection is that the first run or two of the Atlantis used 26" wheels on all sizes and then later 26" on the smaller bikes and 700C on the larger sizes (smart idea). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
The comparison with custom is the big stretch. That listing says "A custom Rivendell costs $3000 and you have to wait a year" and uses those facts to claim the value of his Rivendell. That's simply absurd -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/IkLTOMnZpp4J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
On Nov 10, 2011, at 12:35 PM, SISDDWG wrote: > The people searching Craigslist are looking for something for nothing. My observation is that the sellers on Craigslist tend to vastly overestimate the value of their stuff they want to flog. Calling it "vintage" adds about 50%. I look at bikes and guitars on the local CL and it's amazing how much overpriced crap there is in both categories. A 30 years old Raleigh Sports 3 speed is not worth $500. It sold for about $120 and it's not even worth that now, let alone four times what it cost new. A 20 year old entry level Ibanez guitar is not a "vintage closet classic" worth five times what it cost new. Etc. Craigslist is basically a garage sale online. Used stuff just doesn't hold value very well except maybe for things like diamonds, precious metals and things that are actually rare. > Prices of 10+ years ago have no bearing on today's value. It's a point of reference that is useful to know. Why would this frame and fork, for example, be worth more than it sold for new? It's 15 years or more old, it's used, it's even been damaged albeit slightly. I think it's worth half of what the seller is asking at most. But then I also think that there is an attitude that somehow a Rivendell or a Bridgestone hold value to a much greater degree than other marques. I have often seen people trying to sell something Rivendell from years back at the same price they paid for it new. If they can find someone who thinks that's a good deal, then more power to 'em I guess. > What do you think that $1,100 Longlow would cost at today's dollar value? What difference does that make in buying a *used* bike frame? The original price is useful information, the cost of a new similar item is irrelevant IMHO. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
Look at the color. The canti long-lows were called all all-arounders. It sure looks like an Atlantis, just like mine Unless it was a pre production Atlantis. Tom Dusky owner of 61cm atlantis just like the photo Huntington Woods, MI On Nov 10, 11:35 am, Joe Bernard wrote: > It is not an Atlantis, and I see no reason to consider this a scam. > Considering all the variations we've seen in Rivendell models over the > years, I have no reason to doubt that Grant/Waterford put together a > canti-LongLow. If you think it's overpriced, make an offer. Treating it as > BS seems unfair to me. > > Joe Bernard > Fairfield, CA. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
Thanks for the discussion. I am going to go give it a test ride today. To answer earlier threads, this would be my first 'good' bike. Using it for commuting (14 mile RT) with a big hill in the EBay. But my hope is to ride around the hills near my house on weekends as well. I've been seriously considering a Jamis Quest in a 61cm - so the handle bars are a bit higher up. Salsa Casserroll (a relaxed road bike), with beefed up components. Gunnar sport also looks good, although no tests so far and Traitor exile. The last kind of made me notice how pretty lugs are and so I considered climbing the money tree a bit further and started looking at RBW. I agree a visit to the RBW shop would be a good idea! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
"Most of the time that's evidence of something being priced wrong or something _else_ being wrong which is scaring off other buyers." The people searching Craigslist are looking for something for nothing. Prices of 10+ years ago have no bearing on today's value. What do you think that $1,100 Longlow would cost at today's dollar value? My 1998 Joe/Joe Longlow is on cyclofiend's Current Classics. It has canti's and they work great. On Nov 10, 8:39 am, Seth Vidal wrote: > On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Joe Bernard wrote: > > It is not an Atlantis, and I see no reason to consider this a scam. > > Considering all the variations we've seen in Rivendell models over the > > years, I have no reason to doubt that Grant/Waterford put together a > > canti-LongLow. If you think it's overpriced, make an offer. Treating it as > > BS seems unfair to me. > > Well - to be fair it's been up and down on craigslist for about 2yrs > now - the price has changed a bit over time but nothing else has. > > Most of the time that's evidence of something being priced wrong or > something _else_ being wrong which is scaring off other buyers. > > -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
If you're interested and local, why not go take a look at it? I was following Riv very closely in the late 90s to early 2000s, much more so than I do now, and there is nothing in the ad (or the fact that it's been up and down so many times) to suggest that there is something wrong with the bike. The LLs were being made right around the time Riv transitioned from Waterford to Joe S so it could be either, and there are probably some details that will tell you which. For instance, I know Waterford used its own serial numbering system (which you can find on their website). I suspect Joe S used a different system. Also, around this time may have been when Riv started using its own "Rivendell" casted bottom bracket shell (tho I'm not too sure about that). A close up look at the lugs would also be helpful, as I think Waterford didn't do any custom modified lugs, and Riv was starting to do it. As for the price, if this is a Waterford, it's a little high (I personally think if you like the bike, the color, and it fits, then around $1K is a fair price for a Waterford Riv). If it's a Joe bike, I can see myself paying close to this price if I had the money and the bike fits. It's true that to get something similar for anywhere near that price (handbuilt in the US with fancy lugs, Riv pedigree, by a well-respected and reputed builder --- and I'm not commenting on whether any of that affects the ride or build quality, but perceived value being what it is). Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/dI-rrdXPmtwJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
On Nov 9, 11:40 pm, Thomas B wrote: > I wanted to get some advice on a recent posting for a +10 year old > Long Low advertised on Bay area Craigslist. If the Long Low was priced right, it would have sold by now with the multiple postings. Have you seen the Bleriot on SF Craigslist? Half the price of the Long Low. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
Thomas B, It looks like others have you covered/warned on this particular listing. Why don't we change the subject and talk about what you're looking for? We can help you pick out a current Rivendell model or guide you to a known seller if you give us some more info on the type of bike you are looking for and how you want to use it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
This an Atlantis, look at the picture. They have been trying this for a while. Tom Dusky Huntington Woods MI On Nov 10, 8:09 am, Forrest wrote: > Thomas -- > > I have a '99 59 cm LongLow made for side/center-pull brakes. Others on this > list will know better than I do, but I think pre-production means that the > frames were made in standard sizes/configurations (not custom) but not > necessarily in runs of sizes as they were later by the Toyo shop in Japan. > My LongLow was built by Joe Starck and painted by Joe Bell. > > Canti brakes are good. They can offer more clearance for fenders and/or > larger tires, and some think they have better stopping power than > sidepulls. That may be, but both kinds of brakes are good, and I wouldn't > shy away from a frame like the one now on CL in SF because it was made for > cantis. > > -- Forrest (Iowa City) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
Thomas -- I have a '99 59 cm LongLow made for side/center-pull brakes. Others on this list will know better than I do, but I think pre-production means that the frames were made in standard sizes/configurations (not custom) but not necessarily in runs of sizes as they were later by the Toyo shop in Japan. My LongLow was built by Joe Starck and painted by Joe Bell. Canti brakes are good. They can offer more clearance for fenders and/or larger tires, and some think they have better stopping power than sidepulls. That may be, but both kinds of brakes are good, and I wouldn't shy away from a frame like the one now on CL in SF because it was made for cantis. -- Forrest (Iowa City) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ty_9fLF0WVYJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long Low for sale
If it is the one I am thinking of, it also has a small dimple on the top tube. Replace the tube and repaint it and then maybe $1K. Not sure is this bike has anything more going for it than a new Waterford built Sam...the price of which just got increased by Riv today. On Jan 14, 2:23 pm, Tim McNamara wrote: > On Jan 14, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Seth Vidal wrote: > > > On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Phil Brown wrote: > >> There is a Long Low prototype for sale here in the Bay Area. The owner > >> may post it later but for now contact me. It's 60 by 59 I believe, > >> green and white and if it had a bit longer top tube I'd buy it in a > >> heartbeat. The price is $1550 and I can put you in touch with the > >> seller. > > > It's been on sale off and on for the last year or so, right? > > What the market will bear, YMMV, IMHO, etc. and other standard disclaimers. > Basically IMHO $1550 is much too high a price. As a prototype this frame was > built in 1995 or 1996 and sold new for $1100-1400. Even if it's a complete > bike, that's just still too much IMHO. > > I've got a 1996 All-Rounder for which I paid $1400 for the frame/fork plus I > think an extra $100 for a cream head tube and a headset. I suppose the total > cost was $2500 or so in 1996. Wonderful bike but not, after over 14 years of > use and many thousands of miles, worth $1500. If I was brutally objective, > $500 would be a stretch. It's a bike, not an original Tiffany lamp or a > Nocaster. Of course, the value to me is not monetary- the value to me is the > tremendous enjoyment I get from riding it. > > As enthusiasts are wont to do, we Rivendellians tend to think our Rivs hold > value much better than other bikes do, but really that is only going to be > within this odd little community of devotees. Outside of our group, the > value of a 15 year old Riv isn't going to be much- if any- more than the > value of a 15 year old Cannondale to most buyers. > > There's a caveat, of course. If somebody pays $1550 for this bike and thinks > they got a good deal, then they got a good deal. The yardstick we use for > measuring value is personal. If I saw it and rode it I might give it that > value, too. It's hard to be sure from this side of the keyboard, of course. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Long Low for sale
On Jan 14, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Seth Vidal wrote: > On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Phil Brown wrote: >> There is a Long Low prototype for sale here in the Bay Area. The owner >> may post it later but for now contact me. It's 60 by 59 I believe, >> green and white and if it had a bit longer top tube I'd buy it in a >> heartbeat. The price is $1550 and I can put you in touch with the >> seller. > > It's been on sale off and on for the last year or so, right? What the market will bear, YMMV, IMHO, etc. and other standard disclaimers. Basically IMHO $1550 is much too high a price. As a prototype this frame was built in 1995 or 1996 and sold new for $1100-1400. Even if it's a complete bike, that's just still too much IMHO. I've got a 1996 All-Rounder for which I paid $1400 for the frame/fork plus I think an extra $100 for a cream head tube and a headset. I suppose the total cost was $2500 or so in 1996. Wonderful bike but not, after over 14 years of use and many thousands of miles, worth $1500. If I was brutally objective, $500 would be a stretch. It's a bike, not an original Tiffany lamp or a Nocaster. Of course, the value to me is not monetary- the value to me is the tremendous enjoyment I get from riding it. As enthusiasts are wont to do, we Rivendellians tend to think our Rivs hold value much better than other bikes do, but really that is only going to be within this odd little community of devotees. Outside of our group, the value of a 15 year old Riv isn't going to be much- if any- more than the value of a 15 year old Cannondale to most buyers. There's a caveat, of course. If somebody pays $1550 for this bike and thinks they got a good deal, then they got a good deal. The yardstick we use for measuring value is personal. If I saw it and rode it I might give it that value, too. It's hard to be sure from this side of the keyboard, of course. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
