Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Jonathan D.]

I read EBDJ and the Big Far Surprise a few years back and it changed my 
approach to eating. I love EBDJ though I could argue about some ideas on the 
fringe. I did lose 20 lbs but then put some back when I stopped focusing on how 
I ate. It is going back down again. Here are my observations so far and I would 
also say, I think the New Atkins was another influential book I found after 
EBDJ. 

In the end losing weight is largely about calories in and calories out. However 
our modern diet provides so many empty calories his can be hard. Eating a low 
carb high fat diet helps control hunger and also provides more nutritious 
foods. Sugars should be eating in moderation or avoided. As should all refined 
foods. Eating high fat has not impacted my blood work negatively, at least my 
good cholesterol went up, as did my bad a little. 

I do think stretching is positive. I added mobility work into my morning 
routine and it has made a difference. I just do 10 minutes a day and an ankle 
injury spurred this on. It doesn’t need to be much  

High intensity, high weight exercise once or twice a week is a great base. I do 
kettlebells or deadlifts as my base and then try to stay active. My time is 
limited with kids so bike commuting is my other base. I also am trying to run 
again with an ankle that is coperating. I enjoy running and bacon. 

Try to be a decision making archetect, structure your food choices that you 
have easy access to to make good decisions. A new habit takes a while to build 
and start with small changes. 

I love that this forum covers these topics as well and I appreciate the book 
recommendations. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Lum Gim Fong]

I imagine that if this book is just as well done as Just Ride it will be a lot 
more fun to read and it will cut to the chase on this type of eating subject 
matter way easier for me than me filtering thru reading 300 pg. books on the 
subject by Dr. so and so, etc. to get to the bottom of things on low carb, etc.

But Hi carb camp says lo carb causes diabetes and cancer. Low carb camp says hi 
carb causes diabetes and cancer.

I guess the thinv to do is try it and get bloodwork done each year to see which 
works better for you.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Ash]

".. the moderation ship has sailed"

That's the exact sentence you have used it in the book.  

I'm not diabetic, but I know it is not too far if I were to continue my old 
food-style.   Every time I'm about to serve myself some rice at dinner 
table or consider bread slices/bagels/muffins at breakfast or that 'once is 
a blue moon' (sure!) desert, that sentence of wisdom pops into my head. 
 It's been incredibly helpful!



On Thursday, 24 May 2018 12:12:28 UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>
> It's hard core low carb and has stuff about ketosis. 
> Probably not surprisingly and sometimes maybe maddeningly, in its 
> hardcoreness it gives tough scores to some of our favorite foods than, in a 
> softer core world, are considered healthy. But what is tolerable before 
> your pancreas is shot is unhealthy once you've had 30 or so years to weaken 
> (so to speak) your insulin. At that point you can't just wake up and say 
> OK, I'll have the bran muffin and orange juice.
> I know I wrote it and therefore have zero credibility, but it is an easy 
> to read book that gets to the heart of things fast, then goes onto the 
> next. I think it would be hard to read and not get ANYTHING out of. Enough!
>
>
> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 11:35 AM, Lum Gim Fong  > wrote:
>
>> Is EBDJ keto?
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Grant Petersen]

It's hard core low carb and has stuff about ketosis.
Probably not surprisingly and sometimes maybe maddeningly, in its
hardcoreness it gives tough scores to some of our favorite foods than, in a
softer core world, are considered healthy. But what is tolerable before
your pancreas is shot is unhealthy once you've had 30 or so years to weaken
(so to speak) your insulin. At that point you can't just wake up and say
OK, I'll have the bran muffin and orange juice.
I know I wrote it and therefore have zero credibility, but it is an easy to
read book that gets to the heart of things fast, then goes onto the next. I
think it would be hard to read and not get ANYTHING out of. Enough!


On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 11:35 AM, Lum Gim Fong 
wrote:

> Is EBDJ keto?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[tc]

Love the Rippetoe book, his logic, and instruction.  10 years ago I started 
following his method to get back to basics (squat, dead, bench, standing 
military press).He's got some great technique and teaching videos on 
youtube.

Then I found the Jim Wendler 5-3-1 method about 6 years ago and really took 
off with strength gains.  With 5-3-1, you figure out your maxes, then plug 
them in to Wendler's formula to determine a month's worth of sets and reps 
for your routine.  Refigure your maxes every 3 months.  HIGHLY 
recommended.  No bulls* method that gives results and progression.

Then I (re)discovered kettlebell workouts, which I'm doing now.  Kbell 
workouts are intense and short ... just the ticket for burning fat and 
increasing strength.  

   - 4 sets of single-arm swings
   - 4 sets of turkish get-ups
   - 4 sets of presses (one arm at a time to also stress your core)
   - (my addition) 4 sets of single-arm dumbbell curls, strict

I rotate that workout 3x/week with a 2x/week core routine.

Rotate between any set of good methods and you'll get results.  Run 
endlessly on a treadmill for years on end and, well, you don't get anywhere 
:)

Tom, who still loves to throw heavy stuff around...

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[d2mini]

Yup, fully agree with all that! Or assume I will when I reach 61, i'm sure 
quicker than I thought. lol

This is the book i was referring to https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006XF5BTG

I also got this one because I decided to commit to his program for a year 
and this just makes it easier since it's a year's worth of programming and 
log book.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1938895231
If you step back and look at it, it's not al that different from other 
beginner/intermediate programs like Starting Strength, Fierce Five, etc.

But yeah, I'd say this book (the first one above) was as much a help to me 
as Gary Taub's book (another Grant favorite) was about 8 years ago. That's 
the one that really got me started.

6% I couldn't do! 10 would be a more realistic goal. I'm about 11-12 now 
but said that's enough and starting my first lean bulk. An hour a day M-F 
first thing in the morning before anyone else is up is all I have time for. 
Kids!!! lol


On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 at 2:43:54 PM UTC-5, pb wrote:
>
> A few random responses.
>
> - Looks like Mike Matthews has built quite the marketing machine, with a 
> variety of books and variations.  If he isn't a snake oil peddler, he's 
> still a peddler.  Just observing.  
>
> - When I was 45 I was at 6% body fat and I could still hang in with the 
> 1&2 pack.  I was also in the gym hours a day, 5 days a week.  At 61, my 
> body and metabolism are different, although I agree that lifting remains 
> core to fitness and physical well-being.  (I also like the treadmill for 
> its precise effort and heart rate management.)
>
> - Not every body responds to a diet program the same way.
>
> - I'm glad that you have figured it all out.  That's a great place to be. 
>
>  
> So which precisely is Mike's starter book, and how many more of his books 
> are necessary to achieve enlightenment?  No surprise, the idea of another 
> book is exhausting.  As an aside, I'm on a program right now that has been 
> working in lots of ways, but I still feel like stopping to take a nap when 
> on longer bike rides, so apparently I have not figured it all out.  
>
> ~pb
>
> On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 at 11:36:09 AM UTC-7, d2mini wrote:
>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[sameness]

Was pleased to see that the Stronglifts 5x5  
program is still kicking around, and still free.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Patrick Shea]

I'll be coming out with my new series of ever increasingly expensive books
called, "Eat, Ride Long Distances, Nap." The title pretty much sums up my
training regimen.

Hey Ho,
Patrick Shea

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 12:43 PM, 'pb' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> A few random responses.
>
> - Looks like Mike Matthews has built quite the marketing machine, with a
> variety of books and variations.  If he isn't a snake oil peddler, he's
> still a peddler.  Just observing.
>
> - When I was 45 I was at 6% body fat and I could still hang in with the
> 1&2 pack.  I was also in the gym hours a day, 5 days a week.  At 61, my
> body and metabolism are different, although I agree that lifting remains
> core to fitness and physical well-being.  (I also like the treadmill for
> its precise effort and heart rate management.)
>
> - Not every body responds to a diet program the same way.
>
> - I'm glad that you have figured it all out.  That's a great place to be.
>
>
> So which precisely is Mike's starter book, and how many more of his books
> are necessary to achieve enlightenment?  No surprise, the idea of another
> book is exhausting.  As an aside, I'm on a program right now that has been
> working in lots of ways, but I still feel like stopping to take a nap when
> on longer bike rides, so apparently I have not figured it all out.
>
> ~pb
>
> On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 at 11:36:09 AM UTC-7, d2mini wrote:
>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

['pb' via RBW Owners Bunch]

A few random responses.

- Looks like Mike Matthews has built quite the marketing machine, with a 
variety of books and variations.  If he isn't a snake oil peddler, he's 
still a peddler.  Just observing.  

- When I was 45 I was at 6% body fat and I could still hang in with the 1&2 
pack.  I was also in the gym hours a day, 5 days a week.  At 61, my body 
and metabolism are different, although I agree that lifting remains core to 
fitness and physical well-being.  (I also like the treadmill for its 
precise effort and heart rate management.)

- Not every body responds to a diet program the same way.

- I'm glad that you have figured it all out.  That's a great place to be.   
 
 
So which precisely is Mike's starter book, and how many more of his books 
are necessary to achieve enlightenment?  No surprise, the idea of another 
book is exhausting.  As an aside, I'm on a program right now that has been 
working in lots of ways, but I still feel like stopping to take a nap when 
on longer bike rides, so apparently I have not figured it all out.  

~pb

On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 at 11:36:09 AM UTC-7, d2mini wrote:

>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[d2mini]

Yes, that's a great one and in my library as well. :) It's a great read and 
it's awesome as a reference book for learning the proper form for all the 
main compound moves.
Wouldn't want to be without it!

I like Mike's book because he takes the majority of Rip's views and 
technique on strength training and combines them with his own views on 
diet. His book contains a large bit of information on food and eating with 
scientific studies to back it up.
He even provides sample meal plans for cutting and bulking, for men and 
women, and at different body weights. He also talks about supplements in 
detail.
Rip is purely all about getting stronger. Whereas Mike is probably equally 
concerned with aesthetics... moderate muscle, low bodyfat % looking 
ripped.



On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 at 12:54:53 PM UTC-5, bernie wrote:
>
> Even better book, No.1 on Amazon, Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe- best 
> weight lifting book ever.
>
> Bernie Burton
>
> On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 11:43 AM, d2mini  > wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>> I'm with you, OP... don't jog! Especially as we age. Best thing to do is 
>> get stronger and you don't get stronger with low intensity steady state 
>> cardio. You get stronger by lifting heavy things. And IMO, the stronger we 
>> are, not only do we look better, but recovery to injury is quicker, you are 
>> sick less, immune system is stronger, less overall aging problems. You may 
>> be skinny, but if you've got no muscle that's not doing you any good. 
>> Scrawny, weak and feeble. Being able to run 10 miles isn't going to help 
>> you when you are laid up in a hospital bed for weeks. And when you are 
>> lifting weights and getting stronger, there is no need to deny yourself of 
>> certain food groups if you don't want to. I was Paleo/low carb for the 
>> better part of a decade. Yeah, it worked and most of the time it was pretty 
>> easy, cause who doesn't like bacon!?... but it worked for one reason... it 
>> satiates you and makes it easier to eat in a caloric deficit. Same with 
>> Intermittent Fasting which I've also done. That 8 hour eating window just 
>> makes it easier to consume less calories. At the end of the day, that's all 
>> that matters... eat less. Don't be fooled by the self proclaimed youtube 
>> gurus that try to tell you that you are training your body to burn fat, 
>> your increasing fat burning hormones, bullet proof coffee, apple cider 
>> vinegar or other such nonsense. Every single one of those guys have one 
>> goal... make money. Modern day snake oil peddlers. Get on a solid weight 
>> lifting program and you can go back to eating it all. Within reason of 
>> course. I'll be 45 this summer and I finally got what I always wanted... a 
>> six pack! And i'm not talking about the beverage. ;) I've been where you 
>> guys are and I've learned a lot through it all. Only took me 10 years to 
>> weed through all the B.S. and figure it out. I now lift 4-5 days a week and 
>> track my calories/macros to make sure I'm getting the correct quantity and 
>> ratios and the results have been amazing. And the same advice goes for you 
>> ladies! No, you are not going to get "bulky". You are going to get strong, 
>> lean and fit. Win. And don't get me wrong, I'm not poo-pooing on low carb. 
>> You can still keep carbs relatively low if you'd like. The important thing 
>> is getting the minimum amount of Protein and Fat. Once you've done that you 
>> can fill the rest of your calories however you want. So eat your bacon and 
>> don't jog. Instead, eat your bacon and lift heavy things! :)
>>
>> Since ya'll are recommending books, look up Bigger Leaner Stronger by 
>> Mike Matthews on amazon. 
>>
>> -- 
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>>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Bernie Burton]

Even better book, No.1 on Amazon, Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe- best
weight lifting book ever.

Bernie Burton

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 11:43 AM, d2mini  wrote:

>
>>
> I'm with you, OP... don't jog! Especially as we age. Best thing to do is
> get stronger and you don't get stronger with low intensity steady state
> cardio. You get stronger by lifting heavy things. And IMO, the stronger we
> are, not only do we look better, but recovery to injury is quicker, you are
> sick less, immune system is stronger, less overall aging problems. You may
> be skinny, but if you've got no muscle that's not doing you any good.
> Scrawny, weak and feeble. Being able to run 10 miles isn't going to help
> you when you are laid up in a hospital bed for weeks. And when you are
> lifting weights and getting stronger, there is no need to deny yourself of
> certain food groups if you don't want to. I was Paleo/low carb for the
> better part of a decade. Yeah, it worked and most of the time it was pretty
> easy, cause who doesn't like bacon!?... but it worked for one reason... it
> satiates you and makes it easier to eat in a caloric deficit. Same with
> Intermittent Fasting which I've also done. That 8 hour eating window just
> makes it easier to consume less calories. At the end of the day, that's all
> that matters... eat less. Don't be fooled by the self proclaimed youtube
> gurus that try to tell you that you are training your body to burn fat,
> your increasing fat burning hormones, bullet proof coffee, apple cider
> vinegar or other such nonsense. Every single one of those guys have one
> goal... make money. Modern day snake oil peddlers. Get on a solid weight
> lifting program and you can go back to eating it all. Within reason of
> course. I'll be 45 this summer and I finally got what I always wanted... a
> six pack! And i'm not talking about the beverage. ;) I've been where you
> guys are and I've learned a lot through it all. Only took me 10 years to
> weed through all the B.S. and figure it out. I now lift 4-5 days a week and
> track my calories/macros to make sure I'm getting the correct quantity and
> ratios and the results have been amazing. And the same advice goes for you
> ladies! No, you are not going to get "bulky". You are going to get strong,
> lean and fit. Win. And don't get me wrong, I'm not poo-pooing on low carb.
> You can still keep carbs relatively low if you'd like. The important thing
> is getting the minimum amount of Protein and Fat. Once you've done that you
> can fill the rest of your calories however you want. So eat your bacon and
> don't jog. Instead, eat your bacon and lift heavy things! :)
>
> Since ya'll are recommending books, look up Bigger Leaner Stronger by Mike
> Matthews on amazon.
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Garth]

 Well Patrick  . .  . .I guess we could call that "*literal *nonsense !"
 Ahaahahahaahahah !  !  !  
 


On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 4:59:26 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Oh dear!
>
> (Just pulling your chain ...)
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Birdman]

I was so inspired by this thread that I bought the EBDJ book in March and did 
my research. I’ve lost 30lbs since April 4 and more importantly I’m feeling 
great. Thanks y’all for the inspiration!

Isaac
Rip City

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Patrick Moore]

Oh dear!

(Just pulling your chain ...)

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Garth  wrote:

> Well sure . when I speak about eating what you like, I do so out of
> having lived on so many "trains of thinking" about what to eat and why and
> not, and what food supposedly causes what effect and effects what cause.
> Finding lasting peace-contentment with none of them there comes the point
> of "what's the point" , which is really a hunger of it's own that no food
> could satisfy. Not just in a greater sense, but in the very and oh so
> Present tense. "What about Here, and what about Now ?  if not Now,
> when?... if not Here, where? . an-other now and and here to-be ?" It's
> like a constant promises that everything will be alright that's a "wilĺ
> be-future tense". But not now, oh now ... now sucks... now has this laundry
> list of all that is out of place in my life, in the world, and the world of
> media/education/his-story/confession has all sorts of "evidence" to back
> it up like a self-justification for discontent and failure, and I just go
> along with like a sheep over a cliff because some "simon sez so".
>
> Well gee, the heart can only take so much not in the physical sense,
> but for lack of a better word spirit-soul. It's not something anyone has
> any control of either... it just happens and you are powerless to deny.
> It's like playing the part of a liar, living the lie  then along comes
> the absolute Truth who will have no part of the lie. Like pretending to be
> a tough guy and along comes a child with a bunch of the most beautiful
> flowers you have ever seen and smelled and felt and says "hey mister, these
> are for you". And you just melt like Frosty the snowman, and there is no
> where left to hide. What ideed is the point, the meaning of Life if not
> Here, if not Now, if not This. This is far from the rebellious "live as
> reckless as I can in the moment while I'm alive because it doesn't matter"
> ... on the contrary  because Here and Now does indeed matter oh so
> much in fact "there" isn't anything else.  Where else would I go, and
> who else would I be, but Here and Now that never ends and never begins.
> Like Hereness and Nowness and Beingness. I'm not a grammer expert but a
> -ness has a quality of contrariness in that for all that seems so solid and
> decaying into yester-day and to-morrow  it is "not" in any of it at
> all. In fact the more you try to contain and pinpoint this
> "OmniPresence" to a certain time or place you are contradicted by It's
> sure undefinability.
>
>   So all of this is really a long winded ramble in Whom it rambles. Eating
> seems to me for the Love of Life, of Being Life . not just a life that
> comes and goes, but Life Itself which comes not and goes not. I'm sorry
> this may-not be so practical for anyone  then again sorry Life is not ☺
>
> You know we speak often of just riding ...  but this is really just
> another way of Just Life-ing. Nothing extra required, come as you are, just
> as you are, how-er you are dressed, how-ever you look, how-ever you eat,
> how-ever you speak, how-ever and what-ever .. You are That You are
> . Pricelessness .
>
> --
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>



-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, New Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
**
**
*Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?*

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Deacon Patrick]

Peter,

What Tim said. Also, keep in mind that riding up 15% grades is always more 
anaerobic than aerobic, though going slower can shift that back toward aerobic. 
The liver converts proteins to glycogen we need if we don’t eat carbs. But if 
you are eating in the “middle” of low carb, you aren’t ketogenic (and thus 
triggering liver production), yet aren’t getting enough glycogen through 
potatoes or rice etc. The key is to either be ketogenic (essentially zero 
carbs) or get 2-4 balled-up-fist sized amonts of carbs via potatoes, white 
rice, fruit, etc (a al “Perfect Health Diet”) so your body isn’t stuck in a 
“no-man’s land” when it comes to carb production/availability for the small 
amount of daily carb needed for proper body function.

Over time your body will get more effecient at aerobic function, even allowing 
you to have anaerobic effort along the way.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

['pb' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Tim,

Thank you.  Crystal clear information.  My typical between-rides aerobic 
workout is the treadmill, and it will be very easy to incorporate your 
suggestions.  In fact, they are consistent with my own approach - intervals 
are the key to efficient and effective workouts - while giving me clearer 
direction.

It does help.

Peter

  .  




On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 11:17:26 AM UTC-7, Tim Butterfield wrote:

> Peter,
> What you discovered is that you can be aerobically strong and 
> anaerobically out of gas.  As long as you stay aerobic, you can continue to 
> burn fat and feel strong.  As you edge into and become fully anaerobic, 
> such as when climbing the steep hills, you need the glycogen stores to 
> provide the boost.  Living keto lets those stores shrink, which limits how 
> much of the harder efforts you can do.  A couple of ways to deal with this 
> are:
> 1. Stay at the upper edge of your aerobic zone.  The longer you work at 
> the top of this zone, the more you will extend the upper range of this 
> zone.  Thus, you can get faster while still burning fat.
> 2.  If you have an event and can predict you will be into the anaerobic 
> zone for a longer duration, you can carb load just for the single event.  
> This will provide the larger glycogen store needed while still letting you 
> burn fat while you are in the aerobic zone.  If you find you have used up 
> your glycogen stores as in your example, you can reload that as needed on 
> the go.  In your example, you could have had that banana, Clif bar, or 
> Gatorade to rebuild your glycogen store.   Caveat: This is not for 
> regular/daily usage/training.  Keep that keto, aerobic, and low duration 
> anaerobic/intervals.  It's how you build that aerobic zone.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 10:50 AM, 'pb' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> Arriving late to this conversation.  I have also been "reasonably" 
>> low-carb for the past few years, but without a real plan.  A few weeks ago 
>> an old friend whom I respect recommended ketogenic, and I took the plunge.  
>>
>> Results are good, similar to others, weight loss, smooth energy delivery, 
>> absolutely no problem skipping meals.
>>
>> However.  Last Sunday I had coffee and cream for breakfast, packed a 
>> generous Ziploc with almonds, and left for a moderately challenging 
>> 50-mile/4800 climbing feet ride.  My neighborhood has a steady supply of 
>> short, steep (15%+) climbs and descents, like one section of the ride that 
>> has 2200 feet of climbing in just 9 miles.  I have geared for those climbs, 
>> and my head has accepted them, and they are no big deal.  On this day, 
>> though, I bonked deeper than I have bonked in years.  Weird sensation to 
>> feel simultaneously strong and completely out of gas, if such a thing can 
>> be expressed.  I had nibbled on the almonds steadily, and I was mystified 
>> that I could never feel the flow of fuel that a banana or a Clif bar or 
>> even a Gatorade would have given me.
>>
>> I hadn't had that feeling since I was in my twenties, regularly riding 
>> 100+ Colorado Front Range climbing days, and staggering into the house 
>> after riding, wanting to eat absolutely anything I could put my hands on 
>> right now.  
>>
>> Anyhoo...  I obviously have a lot to learn, and it would seem that Bill 
>> has learned it.  Maybe Lara bars are a start.
>>
>> Peter
>> Sebastopol CA 
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Tim Butterfield]

Peter,
What you discovered is that you can be aerobically strong and anaerobically
out of gas.  As long as you stay aerobic, you can continue to burn fat and
feel strong.  As you edge into and become fully anaerobic, such as when
climbing the steep hills, you need the glycogen stores to provide the
boost.  Living keto lets those stores shrink, which limits how much of the
harder efforts you can do.  A couple of ways to deal with this are:
1. Stay at the upper edge of your aerobic zone.  The longer you work at the
top of this zone, the more you will extend the upper range of this zone.
Thus, you can get faster while still burning fat.
2.  If you have an event and can predict you will be into the anaerobic
zone for a longer duration, you can carb load just for the single event.
This will provide the larger glycogen store needed while still letting you
burn fat while you are in the aerobic zone.  If you find you have used up
your glycogen stores as in your example, you can reload that as needed on
the go.  In your example, you could have had that banana, Clif bar, or
Gatorade to rebuild your glycogen store.   Caveat: This is not for
regular/daily usage/training.  Keep that keto, aerobic, and low duration
anaerobic/intervals.  It's how you build that aerobic zone.

Hope this helps.

Tim



On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 10:50 AM, 'pb' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Arriving late to this conversation.  I have also been "reasonably"
> low-carb for the past few years, but without a real plan.  A few weeks ago
> an old friend whom I respect recommended ketogenic, and I took the plunge.
>
> Results are good, similar to others, weight loss, smooth energy delivery,
> absolutely no problem skipping meals.
>
> However.  Last Sunday I had coffee and cream for breakfast, packed a
> generous Ziploc with almonds, and left for a moderately challenging
> 50-mile/4800 climbing feet ride.  My neighborhood has a steady supply of
> short, steep (15%+) climbs and descents, like one section of the ride that
> has 2200 feet of climbing in just 9 miles.  I have geared for those climbs,
> and my head has accepted them, and they are no big deal.  On this day,
> though, I bonked deeper than I have bonked in years.  Weird sensation to
> feel simultaneously strong and completely out of gas, if such a thing can
> be expressed.  I had nibbled on the almonds steadily, and I was mystified
> that I could never feel the flow of fuel that a banana or a Clif bar or
> even a Gatorade would have given me.
>
> I hadn't had that feeling since I was in my twenties, regularly riding
> 100+ Colorado Front Range climbing days, and staggering into the house
> after riding, wanting to eat absolutely anything I could put my hands on
> right now.
>
> Anyhoo...  I obviously have a lot to learn, and it would seem that Bill
> has learned it.  Maybe Lara bars are a start.
>
> Peter
> Sebastopol CA
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Frank Conway]

Just finished Grant’s book.  Makes a lot of since, since I’ve cut out many 
carbs as of late.  I did, however eat lots of fruit and found it just made me 
more hungry so I cut most of that out and found it helped.  The book has given 
some new guidelines for me to try.  It seems to me that it’s more about what 
you don’t eat than what you do.  I’ve had the flu for the past 4 days - also a 
very effective way to lose weight but one I cannot recommend.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Patrick Moore]

Forgot to add this:

*“Corn is Life”: Agriculture, Spiritual Life, and Economic Change among the
Hopi*
*by Peter Moore*
This case study of the Hopi corn culture in northeastern Arizona focuses on
how the commodification of corn and the decline of subsistence farming has
impacted the religious and cultural lives of the Hopi, how this impact
parallels certain trends in Christian civilization in the West, and how it
reflects a corresponding loss in the symbolic content of the sacred world
and the decline of the traditional worldview that characterizes the
“fallenness” of man.
My brother Peter wrote this a few years ago; published in issue 22 of *Sacred
Web.*

Riv content: corn > food > bikes > Rivendell. It is very true that the SW
Indians were lean and hard until quite recently -- last 30 or 40 years,
when Federal welfare and the encroachment of big box stores allowed them to
choose the easy, unhealthy diet of the b*ilagáana*. (No political or
cultural points of view were injured by this statement.)

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Well, that is very interesting and good to know (though I am sorry that
> your family had those problems). I didn't know that. And I'm still not
> convinced that the genetic exception is absence of susceptibility to
> diabetes, etc., rather than susceptibility to these things. But I am (I
> like to think) open minded.
>
> And believe me, for the traditional Chinese (was married to one) and I
> expect for the Japanese too, not to mention the Filipinos, it was a lot of
> rice for a little sauce.
>
> Regarding berri berri: I'm old enough to have had a father who came from
> the old South, the Dorthea Lange south (tho' he came from an upper middle
> class family and was hardly typical of his era and place): back then,
> pelagra was epidemic, as so many of the poor -- a great part of the
> population, black and white -- ate mostly non-nixtamalized corn meal. But
> that's not the same as eating a great deal of corn or rice with sufficient
> amounts of beans or soy or other complementary foods. The Zunis and Hopis
> didn't have problems with berri berri or pelagra or, for that matter,
> diabetes -- this last, not until they started buying, instead, 20 lb sacks
> of cheap, bleached white flour for fry bread washed down with cases of
> cheap, off-brand soda, as I've often seen them stocking up on in Gallup, NM
> grocery stores.
>
> At any rate, I eat a great deal of carbs, though not huge amounts of rice,
> nor much processed carbs, and am pretty normal for weight and fitness for a
> half-breed Filipino/Scots Irish/English 63-year-old; and then too, my
> mother, as described -- not to mention the corn sacred (literally) to Hopis
> and others, Peruvian potatoes, and so forth. OTOH, traditional Inuit and
> Maasai diets ...
>
> I (just this once, Garth) agree with Garth: everyone eat what he wants!
>
> Patrick Moore, drinking a cold beer as he types, after a nice bosque ride,
> in ABQ, NM
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 1:46 PM, Ash  wrote:
>
>> @Patrick Moore: I think some people are blessed with genes that makes it
>> easy for them to process carbs.  Some of them don't even put on weight.  I
>> don't know about other Asian countries, but in India such people are rare.
>>  2 of my grand parents had diabetes and 3 of them had high BP and heart
>> issues. They were all physically quite active - worked in farm and led
>> strenuous life in general.  Both my parents have diabetes and heart
>> issues.  Culturally they all consumed 100% homemade food, including yogurt,
>> butter, ghee and so forth. There is no processed food whatsoever.   Rarely
>> ate any sweet treats.  I can't find anything other than rice to blame.
>>
>> There are lot of good ingredients in our curries, soups and 'subzi's.
>> The issue is, I think, the proportion.  For us, curries are there as means
>> of making rice or roti taste better.  When I go to Japanese, Chinese or
>> Thai restaurants I see it the other way around.  Lots of vegetables/meat
>> and a small bowl of rice on the side.  Probably Indians too should start
>> eating our rice with chopsticks instead of using fingers :)
>>
>> If the following story is any indicator, even in Japan white rice hasn't
>> helped.
>> https://medium.com/war-is-boring/eating-too-much-rice-almost
>> -sank-the-japanese-navy-f985772c81a6
>>
>> Similar thing happened in my family too while I was growing up.  As my
>> dad started doing slightly better financially, we switched from brown rice
>> (hand-pounded by my mom or grandma to remove husk) to white rice.  If this
>> switch hadn't happened, they would have been much more healthier, IMO.
>> Because their lifestyle and rest of the diet was just fine.
>>
>> After reading EBDJ, I frequently measure my blood glucose and have been
>> tracking food and the numbers in a spreadsheet.  It is clear that the
>> number shoots way up when I consume white rice, roti, naan and quinoa.  I
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Patrick Moore]

Well, that is very interesting and good to know (though I am sorry that
your family had those problems). I didn't know that. And I'm still not
convinced that the genetic exception is absence of susceptibility to
diabetes, etc., rather than susceptibility to these things. But I am (I
like to think) open minded.

And believe me, for the traditional Chinese (was married to one) and I
expect for the Japanese too, not to mention the Filipinos, it was a lot of
rice for a little sauce.

Regarding berri berri: I'm old enough to have had a father who came from
the old South, the Dorthea Lange south (tho' he came from an upper middle
class family and was hardly typical of his era and place): back then,
pelagra was epidemic, as so many of the poor -- a great part of the
population, black and white -- ate mostly non-nixtamalized corn meal. But
that's not the same as eating a great deal of corn or rice with sufficient
amounts of beans or soy or other complementary foods. The Zunis and Hopis
didn't have problems with berri berri or pelagra or, for that matter,
diabetes -- this last, not until they started buying, instead, 20 lb sacks
of cheap, bleached white flour for fry bread washed down with cases of
cheap, off-brand soda, as I've often seen them stocking up on in Gallup, NM
grocery stores.

At any rate, I eat a great deal of carbs, though not huge amounts of rice,
nor much processed carbs, and am pretty normal for weight and fitness for a
half-breed Filipino/Scots Irish/English 63-year-old; and then too, my
mother, as described -- not to mention the corn sacred (literally) to Hopis
and others, Peruvian potatoes, and so forth. OTOH, traditional Inuit and
Maasai diets ...

I (just this once, Garth) agree with Garth: everyone eat what he wants!

Patrick Moore, drinking a cold beer as he types, after a nice bosque ride,
in ABQ, NM



On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 1:46 PM, Ash  wrote:

> @Patrick Moore: I think some people are blessed with genes that makes it
> easy for them to process carbs.  Some of them don't even put on weight.  I
> don't know about other Asian countries, but in India such people are rare.
>  2 of my grand parents had diabetes and 3 of them had high BP and heart
> issues. They were all physically quite active - worked in farm and led
> strenuous life in general.  Both my parents have diabetes and heart
> issues.  Culturally they all consumed 100% homemade food, including yogurt,
> butter, ghee and so forth. There is no processed food whatsoever.   Rarely
> ate any sweet treats.  I can't find anything other than rice to blame.
>
> There are lot of good ingredients in our curries, soups and 'subzi's.  The
> issue is, I think, the proportion.  For us, curries are there as means of
> making rice or roti taste better.  When I go to Japanese, Chinese or Thai
> restaurants I see it the other way around.  Lots of vegetables/meat and a
> small bowl of rice on the side.  Probably Indians too should start eating
> our rice with chopsticks instead of using fingers :)
>
> If the following story is any indicator, even in Japan white rice hasn't
> helped.
> https://medium.com/war-is-boring/eating-too-much-rice-
> almost-sank-the-japanese-navy-f985772c81a6
>
> Similar thing happened in my family too while I was growing up.  As my dad
> started doing slightly better financially, we switched from brown rice
> (hand-pounded by my mom or grandma to remove husk) to white rice.  If this
> switch hadn't happened, they would have been much more healthier, IMO.
> Because their lifestyle and rest of the diet was just fine.
>
> After reading EBDJ, I frequently measure my blood glucose and have been
> tracking food and the numbers in a spreadsheet.  It is clear that the
> number shoots way up when I consume white rice, roti, naan and quinoa.  I
> do not see that when I eat grains that are slow to digest, such as farro,
> brown rice, etc.  Even with those grains, unless I heavily moderate, the
> weight starts to creep up.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, 10 March 2018 17:26:04 UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> I forgot to add that, when my mother developed "type 2" diabetes at about
>> age 70, she effectively controlled it for 20+ years without any medication
>> with a strict diet composed of lots of vegetables, fish and styrofoam
>> chicken breasts, and regular and large helpings of white rice.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 6:21 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> *My food preference has been a contentious matter for us for years.
>>> Often it felt like I had to just embrace the fact that I'm going to be
>>> diabetic a few years down the road, in order to not strain our
>>> relationship.  In last few months though, somehow things have gotten
>>> better.  Because of an incident, she has stopped being in denial about the
>>> harmfulness of carbs. *
>>>
>>> Maybe I completely misunderstand what you are saying, but just in case:
>>> Are you saying that the traditional Indian diet (north or south) conduces
>>> to 

Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Ash]

@Patrick Moore: I think some people are blessed with genes that makes it 
easy for them to process carbs.  Some of them don't even put on weight.  I 
don't know about other Asian countries, but in India such people are rare. 
 2 of my grand parents had diabetes and 3 of them had high BP and heart 
issues. They were all physically quite active - worked in farm and led 
strenuous life in general.  Both my parents have diabetes and heart issues. 
 Culturally they all consumed 100% homemade food, including yogurt, butter, 
ghee and so forth. There is no processed food whatsoever.   Rarely ate any 
sweet treats.  I can't find anything other than rice to blame.  

There are lot of good ingredients in our curries, soups and 'subzi's.  The 
issue is, I think, the proportion.  For us, curries are there as means of 
making rice or roti taste better.  When I go to Japanese, Chinese or Thai 
restaurants I see it the other way around.  Lots of vegetables/meat and a 
small bowl of rice on the side.  Probably Indians too should start eating 
our rice with chopsticks instead of using fingers :)

If the following story is any indicator, even in Japan white rice hasn't 
helped.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/eating-too-much-rice-almost-sank-the-japanese-navy-f985772c81a6

Similar thing happened in my family too while I was growing up.  As my dad 
started doing slightly better financially, we switched from brown rice 
(hand-pounded by my mom or grandma to remove husk) to white rice.  If this 
switch hadn't happened, they would have been much more healthier, IMO. 
 Because their lifestyle and rest of the diet was just fine.

After reading EBDJ, I frequently measure my blood glucose and have been 
tracking food and the numbers in a spreadsheet.  It is clear that the 
number shoots way up when I consume white rice, roti, naan and quinoa.  I 
do not see that when I eat grains that are slow to digest, such as farro, 
brown rice, etc.  Even with those grains, unless I heavily moderate, the 
weight starts to creep up.

 

On Saturday, 10 March 2018 17:26:04 UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I forgot to add that, when my mother developed "type 2" diabetes at about 
> age 70, she effectively controlled it for 20+ years without any medication 
> with a strict diet composed of lots of vegetables, fish and styrofoam 
> chicken breasts, and regular and large helpings of white rice.
>
> On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 6:21 PM, Patrick Moore  > wrote:
>
>> *My food preference has been a contentious matter for us for years.  
>> Often it felt like I had to just embrace the fact that I'm going to be 
>> diabetic a few years down the road, in order to not strain our 
>> relationship.  In last few months though, somehow things have gotten 
>> better.  Because of an incident, she has stopped being in denial about the 
>> harmfulness of carbs. *
>>
>> Maybe I completely misunderstand what you are saying, but just in case: 
>> Are you saying that the traditional Indian diet (north or south) conduces 
>> to diabetes? Having lived in India and Pakistan as a boy for a total of 10 
>> years, I never, ever, *ever* heard that the traditional diet of rice or 
>> chapatis, lentils, vegetables, dairy, spices, with a little meat or fish in 
>> the event, was conducive to any chronic or degenerative disease; quite the 
>> contrary, just as with the white rice + fish + vegetables + coconut oil + 
>> fruit diet of my Filipino ancestors.
>>
>> The Japanese, notorious, nay, infamous eaters of great quantities of 
>> polished white rice, have been long noted for *not *having heart 
>> disease, diabetes, etc, and they are all outliving their social systems!
>>
>> Of course, there is carb and there is carb; white rice, whole wheat 
>> flour, beer, versus the cookie aisle in the grocery store and all the 
>> horrible corn syrup and sugar the factories add to artificial foods to make 
>> them palatable.
>>
>> Patrick Moore, vegan for the 6 weeks of Great Lent (well, with a couple 
>> of slips) in strangely warm ABQ, NM (whose daughter is even now making Thai 
>> vegetarian curry).
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 3:55 PM, Ash  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> L.G.Fong asked:
>>>
>>> > Will you be able to Eat regularly with your family without alienating 
>>> anyone? Serious question
>>>
>>> This is indeed a serious problem.  Unless rest of the family also has 
>>> similar health/weight goals/awareness and their idea of what's healthy diet 
>>> is same as (at least similar to) yours and .. and ...   One should consider 
>>> him/herself extremely lucky if those all stars are aligned.
>>>
>>> In my case I didn't even attempt keto diet. Significantly reducing carbs 
>>> itself is a pretty radical life change for an Asian Indian vegetarian.  
>>> Traditionally carbs are 80-90% of our diet.  For breakfast, for lunch and 
>>> for dinner.  In other words, it is Indian buffet everyday :)  
>>>
>>> My food preference has been a contentious matter for us for 

Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Deacon Patrick]

Another concept to delve into is resistant starch. Potatoes or rice cooked, 
convert to mostly resistant starch, which doesn’t break down into an insulen 
cycle rush of simple sugars in the gut, but is digested by gut bugs into fatty 
acids. When I eat starch, I go for resistant starch. Also, think green banana 
(resistant starch) vs ripe banana (simple starch).

Additionally, traditional preparation of beans and starches (soaked/soured 
oats, for example) neutralizes the anti-nutrients in them. Corn, for example, 
nees to be combined with squash and (lime???) (traditional Anizazi foods) to 
neutralize the anti-nutrients. This is stuff Weston Price looked into a lot, 
across many cultures.

With abadnon,
Patrick  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Patrick Moore]

I forgot to add that, when my mother developed "type 2" diabetes at about
age 70, she effectively controlled it for 20+ years without any medication
with a strict diet composed of lots of vegetables, fish and styrofoam
chicken breasts, and regular and large helpings of white rice.

On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 6:21 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> *My food preference has been a contentious matter for us for years.  Often
> it felt like I had to just embrace the fact that I'm going to be diabetic a
> few years down the road, in order to not strain our relationship.  In last
> few months though, somehow things have gotten better.  Because of an
> incident, she has stopped being in denial about the harmfulness of carbs. *
>
> Maybe I completely misunderstand what you are saying, but just in case:
> Are you saying that the traditional Indian diet (north or south) conduces
> to diabetes? Having lived in India and Pakistan as a boy for a total of 10
> years, I never, ever, *ever* heard that the traditional diet of rice or
> chapatis, lentils, vegetables, dairy, spices, with a little meat or fish in
> the event, was conducive to any chronic or degenerative disease; quite the
> contrary, just as with the white rice + fish + vegetables + coconut oil +
> fruit diet of my Filipino ancestors.
>
> The Japanese, notorious, nay, infamous eaters of great quantities of
> polished white rice, have been long noted for *not *having heart disease,
> diabetes, etc, and they are all outliving their social systems!
>
> Of course, there is carb and there is carb; white rice, whole wheat flour,
> beer, versus the cookie aisle in the grocery store and all the horrible
> corn syrup and sugar the factories add to artificial foods to make them
> palatable.
>
> Patrick Moore, vegan for the 6 weeks of Great Lent (well, with a couple of
> slips) in strangely warm ABQ, NM (whose daughter is even now making Thai
> vegetarian curry).
>
> On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 3:55 PM, Ash  wrote:
>
>> L.G.Fong asked:
>>
>> > Will you be able to Eat regularly with your family without alienating
>> anyone? Serious question
>>
>> This is indeed a serious problem.  Unless rest of the family also has
>> similar health/weight goals/awareness and their idea of what's healthy diet
>> is same as (at least similar to) yours and .. and ...   One should consider
>> him/herself extremely lucky if those all stars are aligned.
>>
>> In my case I didn't even attempt keto diet. Significantly reducing carbs
>> itself is a pretty radical life change for an Asian Indian vegetarian.
>> Traditionally carbs are 80-90% of our diet.  For breakfast, for lunch and
>> for dinner.  In other words, it is Indian buffet everyday :)
>>
>> My food preference has been a contentious matter for us for years.  Often
>> it felt like I had to just embrace the fact that I'm going to be diabetic a
>> few years down the road, in order to not strain our relationship.  In last
>> few months though, somehow things have gotten better.  Because of an
>> incident, she has stopped being in denial about the harmfulness of carbs.
>>
>> Some people might go, just cook your own meal or just don't eat the carb
>> part.  Things are never that simple in real life :|
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, 8 March 2018 23:08:28 UTC-8, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>>>
>>> If you EBDJ can you still do an Indian food buffet once a week without
>>> reversing the EBDJ effectiveness?
>>> Serious question.
>>>
>>> Will you be able to Eat regularly with your family without alienating
>>> anyone? Serious question.
>>>
>> --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Patrick Moore]

*My food preference has been a contentious matter for us for years.  Often
it felt like I had to just embrace the fact that I'm going to be diabetic a
few years down the road, in order to not strain our relationship.  In last
few months though, somehow things have gotten better.  Because of an
incident, she has stopped being in denial about the harmfulness of carbs. *

Maybe I completely misunderstand what you are saying, but just in case: Are
you saying that the traditional Indian diet (north or south) conduces to
diabetes? Having lived in India and Pakistan as a boy for a total of 10
years, I never, ever, *ever* heard that the traditional diet of rice or
chapatis, lentils, vegetables, dairy, spices, with a little meat or fish in
the event, was conducive to any chronic or degenerative disease; quite the
contrary, just as with the white rice + fish + vegetables + coconut oil +
fruit diet of my Filipino ancestors.

The Japanese, notorious, nay, infamous eaters of great quantities of
polished white rice, have been long noted for *not *having heart disease,
diabetes, etc, and they are all outliving their social systems!

Of course, there is carb and there is carb; white rice, whole wheat flour,
beer, versus the cookie aisle in the grocery store and all the horrible
corn syrup and sugar the factories add to artificial foods to make them
palatable.

Patrick Moore, vegan for the 6 weeks of Great Lent (well, with a couple of
slips) in strangely warm ABQ, NM (whose daughter is even now making Thai
vegetarian curry).

On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 3:55 PM, Ash  wrote:

> L.G.Fong asked:
>
> > Will you be able to Eat regularly with your family without alienating
> anyone? Serious question
>
> This is indeed a serious problem.  Unless rest of the family also has
> similar health/weight goals/awareness and their idea of what's healthy diet
> is same as (at least similar to) yours and .. and ...   One should consider
> him/herself extremely lucky if those all stars are aligned.
>
> In my case I didn't even attempt keto diet. Significantly reducing carbs
> itself is a pretty radical life change for an Asian Indian vegetarian.
> Traditionally carbs are 80-90% of our diet.  For breakfast, for lunch and
> for dinner.  In other words, it is Indian buffet everyday :)
>
> My food preference has been a contentious matter for us for years.  Often
> it felt like I had to just embrace the fact that I'm going to be diabetic a
> few years down the road, in order to not strain our relationship.  In last
> few months though, somehow things have gotten better.  Because of an
> incident, she has stopped being in denial about the harmfulness of carbs.
>
> Some people might go, just cook your own meal or just don't eat the carb
> part.  Things are never that simple in real life :|
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, 8 March 2018 23:08:28 UTC-8, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>>
>> If you EBDJ can you still do an Indian food buffet once a week without
>> reversing the EBDJ effectiveness?
>> Serious question.
>>
>> Will you be able to Eat regularly with your family without alienating
>> anyone? Serious question.
>>
> --
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>



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**
**
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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Ash]

L.G.Fong asked:

> Will you be able to Eat regularly with your family without alienating 
anyone? Serious question

This is indeed a serious problem.  Unless rest of the family also has 
similar health/weight goals/awareness and their idea of what's healthy diet 
is same as (at least similar to) yours and .. and ...   One should consider 
him/herself extremely lucky if those all stars are aligned.

In my case I didn't even attempt keto diet. Significantly reducing carbs 
itself is a pretty radical life change for an Asian Indian vegetarian. 
 Traditionally carbs are 80-90% of our diet.  For breakfast, for lunch and 
for dinner.  In other words, it is Indian buffet everyday :)  

My food preference has been a contentious matter for us for years.  Often 
it felt like I had to just embrace the fact that I'm going to be diabetic a 
few years down the road, in order to not strain our relationship.  In last 
few months though, somehow things have gotten better.  Because of an 
incident, she has stopped being in denial about the harmfulness of carbs.   

Some people might go, just cook your own meal or just don't eat the carb 
part.  Things are never that simple in real life :|




On Thursday, 8 March 2018 23:08:28 UTC-8, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> If you EBDJ can you still do an Indian food buffet once a week without 
> reversing the EBDJ effectiveness?
> Serious question.
>
> Will you be able to Eat regularly with your family without alienating 
> anyone? Serious question.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Frank Conway]

This thread (and ensuing discussion) compelled me to buy the book.  Interesting 
stuff - thanks all.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Deacon Patrick]

Coconut oil in coffee is a fall back food for us. Coffee and cream were made 
for each other. My “breakfast” (in quotes, because it doesn’t break my fast as 
far as carbs are concerned, so technically still IF) is a cup of homemade bone 
broth and a cup of coffee and cream.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Evan E.]

Count me as another happy beneficiary of the EBDJ regimen. My HDL 
cholesterol is now higher (that's a good thing) because of it. 

If you're reading this and you somehow haven't already tried the EBDJ plan, 
note two things:

1. "Paleo flu" is a thing. Know that for five, or ten, or twenty days after 
you go low-carb, you may well feel sluggish, irritable, headachy. Stay the 
course. It gets better.

2. In addition to coconut oil being awesome, coconut butter 

 
is pretty great, too. It's pureed coconut meat, so it's not as oily as oil, 
but it still contains plenty of oil and fat and calories. I find the butter 
much easier to eat from a spoon than coconut oil. But the butter doesn't 
melt easily into coffee, so you'll want oil for that. Add some grass-fed 
butter to your coffee, too. Tastes good. People will think it's even more 
disgusting than oil, alone, in your coffee.

Evan

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Karl]

Lum,

I unfortunately eat about 80% of my meals away from home. I say this to say 
it is the easiest way of eating I have found to eat at every place I go. I 
also can order directly off the menu most places without having to be "that 
customer". I regularly eat Indian food, and can navigate it pretty well. No 
rice, and looking for cream based sauces. Hope this helps.

Karl "Need to eat at home more" 
Nashville, TN 

On Friday, March 9, 2018 at 1:08:28 AM UTC-6, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> If you EBDJ can you still do an Indian food buffet once a week without 
> reversing the EBDJ effectiveness?
> Serious question.
>
> Will you be able to Eat regularly with your family without alienating 
> anyone? Serious question.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[DaveS]

Lum-speaking only for myself here. If I overdo and go out  of ketosis I dry out 
from the meal and put myself back in within a few days. I have tried cheat days 
throwing in burgers fries coke for lunch once a week, without any weirdness to 
my glucose readings which is one of those data points that I check to see how I 
am reacting to food . I have found that I process foods better eating smaller 
more vegan portions w clean proteins, but the weight loss is likely more 
responsible for that kick start w good choice not diet keeping it going. There 
was an I tersting article about this in Tuesday’s NYTimes science section

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Ron Mc]

Just finished a HS wrestling season (as a parent).  Parents within the 
region (in this case, one-fourth of Texas) get to know each other pretty 
well from Thanksgiving to the end of February.  Wrestler's diet is all 
about controlling weight to make weight, daily burning calories to keep in 
shape, and being able to short-term burn enough calories to perform.  Over 
the season, you chat with some very lean parents who've been sharing the 
table with their wrestlers.  

On Friday, March 9, 2018 at 1:08:28 AM UTC-6, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> If you EBDJ can you still do an Indian food buffet once a week without 
> reversing the EBDJ effectiveness?
> Serious question.
>
> Will you be able to Eat regularly with your family without alienating 
> anyone? Serious question.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Lum Gim Fong]

If you EBDJ can you still do an Indian food buffet once a week without 
reversing the EBDJ effectiveness?
Serious question.

Will you be able to Eat regularly with your family without alienating anyone? 
Serious question.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Karl]

Really encouraging Dave! When we visited Rivendell World Headquarters last 
fall, Grant mentioned his crazy diet. I didn't think much about it until 
about a week later when I was home and dreading the holidays for weight 
gain reasons. I looked up EBDJ, read it cover to cover, and dipped my toe 
in the water. I have been happy with the life change, and have to resist 
selling it to others as a miracle drug. I am glad to see it has worked for 
so many long term!

Karl
Nashville, TN

On Thursday, March 8, 2018 at 7:26:05 PM UTC-6, DaveS wrote:
>
> First Bill congrats. Second thank you for pointing me to the Sam for my go 
> fast build, it’s in its way 
>
> I took the paleo/EBDJ to heart a little over a year ago. I was type 2 
> diabetic w A1C of almost 9. Did t even know I was a mess. Cholesterol of 
> 234.  Went off carbs sugar processed food and junk cold turkey. Over the 
> first month the numbers dropped from 234 to 135, A1C to below 5, BP was 
> normal wo meds. Total weight loss is about 160 pounds to date, a year 
> later. I resisted the scale but needed to realize how fat I was, and use it 
> to monitor status but Deacon speaks some truth, I now use body feel and 
> clothes to keep moving. I went from a 54 pant to a 46, 3xl to 1xl, but I 
> know when I have overdone it by energy, lethargy and “feel” now. I am dead 
> when I binge on carbs, pizza bread etc and a year later just can’t tolerate 
> the bloating. It comes w time and, like any drug is eventually beatable, 
> you flip, get back up, work out harder, dry out and move forward. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[DaveS]

First Bill congrats. Second thank you for pointing me to the Sam for my go fast 
build, it’s in its way

I took the paleo/EBDJ to heart a little over a year ago. I was type 2 diabetic 
w A1C of almost 9. Did t even know I was a mess. Cholesterol of 234.  Went off 
carbs sugar processed food and junk cold turkey. Over the first month the 
numbers dropped from 234 to 135, A1C to below 5, BP was normal wo meds. Total 
weight loss is about 160 pounds to date, a year later. I resisted the scale but 
needed to realize how fat I was, and use it to monitor status but Deacon speaks 
some truth, I now use body feel and clothes to keep moving. I went from a 54 
pant to a 46, 3xl to 1xl, but I know when I have overdone it by energy, 
lethargy and “feel” now. I am dead when I binge on carbs, pizza bread etc and a 
year later just can’t tolerate the bloating. It comes w time and, like any drug 
is eventually beatable, you flip, get back up, work out harder, dry out and 
move forward. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Steve Palincsar]

Infused with Kevlar???


On 03/08/2018 10:04 AM, Doug Van Cleve wrote:

Pretty sure it is a similar idea/effect as "bulletproof" coffee...

Doug

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 7:12 AM, Steve Palincsar > wrote:




On 03/08/2018 08:45 AM, Bill Lindsay wrote:

Steve asked why put coconut oil in your coffee.

One tablespoon is about 120 calories of good fat.  A cup of
coconut coffee (like the one I’m enjoying now) is a pretty
satisfying breakfast to one who has gotten off carbs. I was
going to drink the coffee and I wanted to get those calories
in. Eating a spoonful of coconut oil on its own would have
been fine I suppose. In my coffee makes me feel ‘Paleo Fancy’


OK, got it.

-- 
Steve Palincsar

Alexandria, Virginia
USA



Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Doug Van Cleve]

Pretty sure it is a similar idea/effect as "bulletproof" coffee...

Doug

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 7:12 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

>
>
> On 03/08/2018 08:45 AM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Steve asked why put coconut oil in your coffee.
>>
>> One tablespoon is about 120 calories of good fat.  A cup of coconut
>> coffee (like the one I’m enjoying now) is a pretty satisfying breakfast to
>> one who has gotten off carbs. I was going to drink the coffee and I wanted
>> to get those calories in. Eating a spoonful of coconut oil on its own would
>> have been fine I suppose. In my coffee makes me feel ‘Paleo Fancy’
>>
>>
> OK, got it.
>
> --
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia
> USA
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Ron Mc]

but is it realy paleo if you didn't kill it before you ate it?  

On Thursday, March 8, 2018 at 8:14:20 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 03/08/2018 08:45 AM, Bill Lindsay wrote: 
> > Steve asked why put coconut oil in your coffee. 
> > 
> > One tablespoon is about 120 calories of good fat.  A cup of coconut 
> coffee (like the one I’m enjoying now) is a pretty satisfying breakfast to 
> one who has gotten off carbs. I was going to drink the coffee and I wanted 
> to get those calories in. Eating a spoonful of coconut oil on its own would 
> have been fine I suppose. In my coffee makes me feel ‘Paleo Fancy’ 
> > 
>
> OK, got it. 
>
> -- 
> Steve Palincsar 
> Alexandria, Virginia 
> USA 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Steve Palincsar]

On 03/08/2018 08:45 AM, Bill Lindsay wrote:

Steve asked why put coconut oil in your coffee.

One tablespoon is about 120 calories of good fat.  A cup of coconut coffee 
(like the one I’m enjoying now) is a pretty satisfying breakfast to one who has 
gotten off carbs. I was going to drink the coffee and I wanted to get those 
calories in. Eating a spoonful of coconut oil on its own would have been fine I 
suppose. In my coffee makes me feel ‘Paleo Fancy’



OK, got it.

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Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Bill Lindsay]

Steve asked why put coconut oil in your coffee. 

One tablespoon is about 120 calories of good fat.  A cup of coconut coffee 
(like the one I’m enjoying now) is a pretty satisfying breakfast to one who has 
gotten off carbs. I was going to drink the coffee and I wanted to get those 
calories in. Eating a spoonful of coconut oil on its own would have been fine I 
suppose. In my coffee makes me feel ‘Paleo Fancy’

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Steve Palincsar]

On 03/08/2018 08:24 AM, tc wrote:


I tried a rounded teaspoon of refined coconut oil in my black coffee 
yesterday afternoon after reading Bill's post.  Other than a tiny "oil 
slick", there was no indication I had anything in there.  No added 
taste whatsoever...but it was strong coffee made in a one-cup french 
press, so it coulda gotten overpowered.  I'm sure my internals 
appreciated it.  I like the taste of coconut, so I'll try some 
unrefined in my coffee today.




Perhaps I've missed something: why would you put coconut oil in a cup of 
coffee?  What's the purpose?


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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