Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Lyman Labry]

Black for my money.  Elegant.

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 8:39 PM Reid Echols  wrote:

> The black and cream, for my money :) I’d love a grilver one too, though.
>
> Reid in Austin
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[R Shannon]

Sage is such a versatile color. Much like the gray on Joe’s custom:-)

Best,
Rich in ATL

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 19, 2020, at 5:09 PM, Will Ashe  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm with Joe. The sage was my favorite Sam color. I think they look great 
> with black bits.
> 
>> On Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>> My impression is it's a previous Sam color. Sage Green wasn't real popular 
>> but the Riv crew loved it (me, too)..my guess is they'll give it another run.
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Will Ashe]

I'm with Joe. The sage was my favorite Sam color. I think they look great 
with black bits.

On Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> My impression is it's a previous Sam color. Sage Green wasn't real popular 
> but the Riv crew loved it (me, too)..my guess is they'll give it another 
> run. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Jason Fuller]

Whether the current Sam is too long, too short, or just right certainly 
depends on your body type but for me, it's perfect.  I have a 51 that fits 
me spot on, and I believe strongly that in order to really love a bike, it 
can't just be close - it needs to fit.  For my 50cm drops I run a 5cm stem, 
if I ran standard width drops I'd go up to 6 or maybe 7, and with swept 
bars I'd probably want a 12 or 13cm stem.

And regarding crazy-short stems - to me they are a matched set with the new 
breed of wide drop bars, and together they make perfect sense.  Apart, and 
they don't work very well at all. 

Anyways I'm surprised to hear more Sams are coming back before even hearing 
more about the Charlie H Gallop!  And I'd be very surprised if orange was 
offered, since the last batch of Sams had the latest & greatest 
slightly-pearled orange (ie, mine!) 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Joe Bernard]

My impression is it's a previous Sam color. Sage Green wasn't real popular but 
the Riv crew loved it (me, too)..my guess is they'll give it another run. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Fryfam]

For those of us with short torsos and long legs, and a strong preference 
for drop bars, 2cm can make a huge difference in comfort over a 3-4 hr ride

Market interest in custom or limited release stems seems mostly fueled by 
the overabundance of long TT framesets in a world moving in the direction 
of uprighteousness, drop bar or not

re: color, would pretty much love any light shade of green

On Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 9:35:49 AM UTC-7, Dave Johnston wrote:
>
> I think MTB's were steered to long top tube short stem route because 
> of Fat 29er wheels and long travel suspension. Doesn't mean it doesn't 
> work well, but it's not unheard of for the bicycle world to sell a 
> compromise as a feature. Maybe 650b wheels are the better compromise? 
>
> I admit to being one of those people a few years back that would 
> declare a bike too big or too small because of +/-1cm differences in 
> the top tube and +/-2cm in the seat tube. This attitude was super 
> common on Ibob a few years ago. Nowadays if I can straddle the top 
> tube and the stem I need is commonly available then I'm mostly OK with 
> the design. Custom or limited release stems and I start to think 
> twice. 
>
> On 5/19/20, Patrick Moore > wrote: 
> > It seems that many riders are very happy with short stems and bars 
> > compensating for longer top tubes. I'd have to try such a combination 
> > before I paid for one, but it seems there are many different ways to 
> skin a 
> > cat -- so to speak. And now I recollect that modern mountain bikes have 
> > similar design qualities; interesting that the new Atlantis and 
> > Hillborns(?) are following that design trend. 
> > 
> > At any rate, the older, short-top-tube / long stem and bar also works 
> > impeccably for dirt road; perhaps one differentiating criterion is 
> whether 
> > your riding is more road or more singletrack biased? 
> > 
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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[David Johnston]

I think MTB's were steered to long top tube short stem route because
of Fat 29er wheels and long travel suspension. Doesn't mean it doesn't
work well, but it's not unheard of for the bicycle world to sell a
compromise as a feature. Maybe 650b wheels are the better compromise?

I admit to being one of those people a few years back that would
declare a bike too big or too small because of +/-1cm differences in
the top tube and +/-2cm in the seat tube. This attitude was super
common on Ibob a few years ago. Nowadays if I can straddle the top
tube and the stem I need is commonly available then I'm mostly OK with
the design. Custom or limited release stems and I start to think
twice.

On 5/19/20, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> It seems that many riders are very happy with short stems and bars
> compensating for longer top tubes. I'd have to try such a combination
> before I paid for one, but it seems there are many different ways to skin a
> cat -- so to speak. And now I recollect that modern mountain bikes have
> similar design qualities; interesting that the new Atlantis and
> Hillborns(?) are following that design trend.
>
> At any rate, the older, short-top-tube / long stem and bar also works
> impeccably for dirt road; perhaps one differentiating criterion is whether
> your riding is more road or more singletrack biased?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Patrick Moore]

It seems that many riders are very happy with short stems and bars
compensating for longer top tubes. I'd have to try such a combination
before I paid for one, but it seems there are many different ways to skin a
cat -- so to speak. And now I recollect that modern mountain bikes have
similar design qualities; interesting that the new Atlantis and
Hillborns(?) are following that design trend.

At any rate, the older, short-top-tube / long stem and bar also works
impeccably for dirt road; perhaps one differentiating criterion is whether
your riding is more road or more singletrack biased?

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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Eamon Nordquist]

Clayton, I'd probably need the zero offset stem to fit noodles on the 
current 59 Atlantis. Obviously, the 70 degree head angle can get the bars a 
lot closer, but only by having the bars much higher than I want). Yes, it 
could be done for me, but only just. The 55 Atlantis, with its 59cm top 
tube would fit easier, but I would only want that much standover if I was 
setting it up more like a mountain bike (it'd be great with a dirt drop and 
wavie bars).

For uprights, it would really depend on which bar I chose. They have such 
varying amounts of rise, drop, sweep, and forward extension (or lack 
thereof).

In any case, I'm not arguing that no one can put drops on these and be 
happy (just not me). I'm saying that it's obvious that they are meant for 
swept back bars, especially for someone who only just fits the pbh range 
for their size. There's nothing wrong with that, and if some folks like 
their short reach bars and ultra short stems, more power to you. There's 
also nothing wrong with the rest of us.

Eamon

On Monday, May 18, 2020 at 6:47:12 PM UTC-7, Clayton Scott wrote:
>
> Eamon,
>
> What stem length and which upright bars would you run on the 59 Atlantis?
>
> What top tube length and stem length would you need on an Atlantis to run 
> Noodles?
>
> Clayton Scott
> HBG, CA
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Clayton Scott]

Eamon,

What stem length and which upright bars would you run on the 59 Atlantis?

What top tube length and stem length would you need on an Atlantis to run 
Noodles?

Clayton Scott
HBG, CA

On Monday, May 18, 2020 at 6:15:20 PM UTC-7, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>
> Clayton, most people I know, if changing from drops to upright bars on the 
> same bike, would use a longer stem for the uprights. That’s not an 
> emotional decision. For myself, if on a 59 Atlantis with its 64cm top tube, 
> I’m not running anything but upright bars on it. I bet it’s great too, but 
> it’s not an emotional decision that I wouldn’t want drops on that bike, 
> especially my bar if choice - noodles. Maybe bars like the one James from 
> Analog showed, but they are personally an aesthetic and ergonomic 
> abomination to ME. I fully understand many people like them. 
>
> Eamon 
> Seattle 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Drw]

The analog stem is no joke. I run a 30mm one on a MUSA Atlantis that fits me 
like a glove and fit me like a glove before the short stem. It has improved 
comfort, and handling especially off road.  It’s definitely stiffer than a 
longish technomic, so maybe that’s the handling improvement I feel. 
If you’re ok with a 60mm stem, I don’t quite see how a 30mm stem means your 
frame doesn’t fit you. 
When I got it , I gambled on the analog stem because I mainly wanted a quill 
31.8 stem. Was sort of expecting the fit to be weird but i was pleasantly 
wrong. I actually bought a 50mm crust/nitto 31.8 stem recently and find myself 
wishing it was shorter. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Eamon Nordquist]

Clayton, most people I know, if changing from drops to upright bars on the same 
bike, would use a longer stem for the uprights. That’s not an emotional 
decision. For myself, if on a 59 Atlantis with its 64cm top tube, I’m not 
running anything but upright bars on it. I bet it’s great too, but it’s not an 
emotional decision that I wouldn’t want drops on that bike, especially my bar 
if choice - noodles. Maybe bars like the one James from Analog showed, but they 
are personally an aesthetic and ergonomic abomination to ME. I fully understand 
many people like them.

Eamon
Seattle 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Clayton Scott]

One more observation.

People accept and love handlebars like Bosco, Losco, Jones and Albas. These 
bars often put your hands behind the steertube/steering axis. But, the same 
people throw their hands in the air over sub 40mm stems paired with drops 
that usually (unless you reverse the stem!) place the hands still well 
ahead of the steertube/steering axis. 

Going from drops to upright bars *on the same bike is* rarely seen as 
crazy, but using a 0 offset stem with drops will at least start at least a 
conversation with most bike people, even though it is a far less extreme 
change.

Likely emotion/tradition still governs a lot of the component dimension 
choices. 

Clayton Scott
HBG, CA

On Monday, May 18, 2020 at 3:05:32 PM UTC-7, Clayton Scott wrote:
>
> Hi Patrick, 
>
> This will all sound a little vague and I am likely not describing it 
> perfectly but here it goes:
>
> To answer the question about how handling changes with shorter stem: 
> Personally I don't think it affects handling much *as long as it works 
> within the overall bike bike/rider system*.
>
> Rather than absolute component lengths and standardized fit across any 
> bike, I seem to like *contact points in a certain place relative to each 
> other and relative to whole bicycle* and its intended purpose. If I aimed 
> for the exact absolute position on my Jones plus as my road bike one of the 
> two would likely end up handling terribly. If I were to put a 30mm stem on 
> my road bike but leave everything else as is it would end up feeling 
> cramped. 
>
> The whole bike and rider system has its sweet spots that vary from bike to 
> bike and rider to rider. My Jones has 800mm bars and my hands end up in 
> line with streer tube. bars are higher relative to saddle putting less 
> weight on my hands and allowing me to be well behind the front wheel on 
> steep descents. saddle to bar distance is short enough that it is easy to 
> weight the rear or front wheel by just shifting my body around. I move 
> around a lot on it. My rando bike is more stretched out. I don't shift 
> around as much, bars are lower and hands end up well ahead of the 
> steertube. Cross bike it a bit more compact with bars higher and hoods 
> higher for steeper descents and so on. I am comfortable with a range of 
> different positions across different bikes (within reason) but on each bike 
> I picky about my contact points.
>
> Despite the significant bike to bike differences each bike handles 
> superbly for me and all of them are comfortable for long rides across 
> intended terrain.
>
> Hope this helps some. 
>
> Clayton Scott
> HBG, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, May 18, 2020 at 1:41:26 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> How do such short stems affect the handling of the Atlantis? I use stems 
>> on my Riv Roads that are short by conventional standards -- 8 cm, and I 
>> absolutely insist on drop bars with sufficiently long ramps (but 
>> short-hooded Shimano aero levers and not the very long brifter levers), and 
>> insist on a bar no higher than level with saddle, so no very short reach 
>> bar will do. To make up for a very long top tube with a very short stem and 
>> stubby bar sounds rather makeshift, but I am happy to be proved wrong.
>>
>> Clayton: I was going to ask, "Please elaborate" and then I saw that you 
>> did in a subsquent post. My question remains: How does such a short stem 
>> and bar affect handling if you like your drop bar relatively low -- again, 
>> no more high than level with saddle.
>>
>> That said, I've converted several long-top-tube "NORBA-type" mountain 
>> bikes to drop bars with longish ramps -- Noodle, for example -- using stems 
>> with short effective reach; for example, Tioga T-Bone upjutters or a 10 cm 
>> Dirt Drop for example to make 58.5 cm tts match the 56.5-57s on my road 
>> bikes; these conversions worked well. But I gather that the new Atlantis 
>> has a more-than-NORBA-length top tube, and I wonder how well you can really 
>> get it to work with a normal-shape drop bar level with or lower than saddle.
>>
>> And of course there is nothing at all wrong with sweep-back bars, but I 
>> wonder how well a frame designed for those will work in the real world with 
>> drop bars level with etc.
>>
>> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 7:21 AM James / Analog Cycles <
>> analog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> New MIT Atlantis frames worth fine with shorter reach drop bars and 30mm 
>>> or 0mm stems.  No need to size down.  -James / Analog Cycles / Discord 
>>> Components / Etc etc
>>> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bk8H2AKhPiD/
>>>
>>> [image: DSC07236-1.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, May 17, 2020 at 10:56:07 PM UTC-4, Eamon Nordquist wrote:

 The newest MIT Atlantis models do seem to have gotten even longer than 
 the first round. I personally wouldn’t be able to fit dropbars to one 
 without it going a size too small, and having way more stem and seat post 
 than I would be happy with (short stem 

Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Joe Bernard]

Patrick: I had a 53cm MIT Atlantis that came to me from Analog Cycles with a 0 
stem and flared drops. Later I ran a shorty - maybe it was 50mm - stem with a 
Jones Loop. Granted I'm not a trail rider and not particularly sensitive to 
slight differences in road handling, but the frame rode the same to me. You 
gotta figure if your hands land in generally the same spot, the steerer isn't 
going to know what part is stem and what part is bar.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Clayton Scott]

One more observation.

People accept and love handlebars like Bosco, Losco, Jones and Albas that put 
your hands behind the steertube/steering axis, but throw their hands in the air 
over sub 40mm stems paired with drops that place the hands still well ahead of 
the steertube/steering axis. 

Likely emotion/tradition still governs a lot of the component dimension choices.

Clayton Scott
HBG, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Clayton Scott]

Hi Patrick, 

This will all sound a little vague and I am likely not describing it 
perfectly but here it goes:

To answer the question about how handling changes with shorter stem: 
Personally I don't think it affects handling much *as long as it works 
within the overall bike bike/rider system*.

Rather than absolute component lengths and standardized fit across any 
bike, I seem to like *contact points in a certain place relative to each 
other and relative to whole bicycle* and its intended purpose. If I aimed 
for the exact absolute position on my Jones plus as my road bike one of the 
two would likely end up handling terribly. If I were to put a 30mm stem on 
my road bike but leave everything else as is it would end up feeling 
cramped. 

The whole bike and rider system has its sweet spots that vary from bike to 
bike and rider to rider. My Jones has 800mm bars and my hands end up in 
line with streer tube. bars are higher relative to saddle putting less 
weight on my hands and allowing me to be well behind the front wheel on 
steep descents. saddle to bar distance is short enough that it is easy to 
weight the rear or front wheel by just shifting my body around. I move 
around a lot on it. My rando bike is more stretched out. I don't shift 
around as much, bars are lower and hands end up well ahead of the 
steertube. Cross bike it a bit more compact with bars higher and hoods 
higher for steeper descents and so on. I am comfortable with a range of 
different positions across different bikes (within reason) but on each bike 
I picky about my contact points.

Despite the significant bike to bike differences each bike handles superbly 
for me and all of them are comfortable for long rides across intended 
terrain.

Hope this helps some. 

Clayton Scott
HBG, CA











On Monday, May 18, 2020 at 1:41:26 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> How do such short stems affect the handling of the Atlantis? I use stems 
> on my Riv Roads that are short by conventional standards -- 8 cm, and I 
> absolutely insist on drop bars with sufficiently long ramps (but 
> short-hooded Shimano aero levers and not the very long brifter levers), and 
> insist on a bar no higher than level with saddle, so no very short reach 
> bar will do. To make up for a very long top tube with a very short stem and 
> stubby bar sounds rather makeshift, but I am happy to be proved wrong.
>
> Clayton: I was going to ask, "Please elaborate" and then I saw that you 
> did in a subsquent post. My question remains: How does such a short stem 
> and bar affect handling if you like your drop bar relatively low -- again, 
> no more high than level with saddle.
>
> That said, I've converted several long-top-tube "NORBA-type" mountain 
> bikes to drop bars with longish ramps -- Noodle, for example -- using stems 
> with short effective reach; for example, Tioga T-Bone upjutters or a 10 cm 
> Dirt Drop for example to make 58.5 cm tts match the 56.5-57s on my road 
> bikes; these conversions worked well. But I gather that the new Atlantis 
> has a more-than-NORBA-length top tube, and I wonder how well you can really 
> get it to work with a normal-shape drop bar level with or lower than saddle.
>
> And of course there is nothing at all wrong with sweep-back bars, but I 
> wonder how well a frame designed for those will work in the real world with 
> drop bars level with etc.
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 7:21 AM James / Analog Cycles  > wrote:
>
>> New MIT Atlantis frames worth fine with shorter reach drop bars and 30mm 
>> or 0mm stems.  No need to size down.  -James / Analog Cycles / Discord 
>> Components / Etc etc
>> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bk8H2AKhPiD/
>>
>> [image: DSC07236-1.jpg]
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, May 17, 2020 at 10:56:07 PM UTC-4, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>>>
>>> The newest MIT Atlantis models do seem to have gotten even longer than 
>>> the first round. I personally wouldn’t be able to fit dropbars to one 
>>> without it going a size too small, and having way more stem and seat post 
>>> than I would be happy with (short stem notwithstanding). I do hope the new 
>>> Hillbornes haven’t gotten longer. The roster is pretty chock full of long 
>>> bikes. Could be what others want, though. Who knows? 
>>>
>>> Eamon 
>>> Seattle 
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com .
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e20c097d-5660-4dda-8278-023a811c7a92%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 

Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Patrick Moore]

How do such short stems affect the handling of the Atlantis? I use stems on
my Riv Roads that are short by conventional standards -- 8 cm, and I
absolutely insist on drop bars with sufficiently long ramps (but
short-hooded Shimano aero levers and not the very long brifter levers), and
insist on a bar no higher than level with saddle, so no very short reach
bar will do. To make up for a very long top tube with a very short stem and
stubby bar sounds rather makeshift, but I am happy to be proved wrong.

Clayton: I was going to ask, "Please elaborate" and then I saw that you did
in a subsquent post. My question remains: How does such a short stem and
bar affect handling if you like your drop bar relatively low -- again, no
more high than level with saddle.

That said, I've converted several long-top-tube "NORBA-type" mountain bikes
to drop bars with longish ramps -- Noodle, for example -- using stems with
short effective reach; for example, Tioga T-Bone upjutters or a 10 cm Dirt
Drop for example to make 58.5 cm tts match the 56.5-57s on my road bikes;
these conversions worked well. But I gather that the new Atlantis has a
more-than-NORBA-length top tube, and I wonder how well you can really get
it to work with a normal-shape drop bar level with or lower than saddle.

And of course there is nothing at all wrong with sweep-back bars, but I
wonder how well a frame designed for those will work in the real world with
drop bars level with etc.

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 7:21 AM James / Analog Cycles <
analogcyc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> New MIT Atlantis frames worth fine with shorter reach drop bars and 30mm
> or 0mm stems.  No need to size down.  -James / Analog Cycles / Discord
> Components / Etc etc
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bk8H2AKhPiD/
>
> [image: DSC07236-1.jpg]
>
>
> On Sunday, May 17, 2020 at 10:56:07 PM UTC-4, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>>
>> The newest MIT Atlantis models do seem to have gotten even longer than
>> the first round. I personally wouldn’t be able to fit dropbars to one
>> without it going a size too small, and having way more stem and seat post
>> than I would be happy with (short stem notwithstanding). I do hope the new
>> Hillbornes haven’t gotten longer. The roster is pretty chock full of long
>> bikes. Could be what others want, though. Who knows?
>>
>> Eamon
>> Seattle
>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e20c097d-5660-4dda-8278-023a811c7a92%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[David Johnston]

It is nice that stems and seatposts are now available to make so many
bike frames work for a variety of riders with the huge variety of
handlebars out there. I haven't done it yet but I'd like to try Drops
on my old 1989 Miyata MTB. Maybe I'll become a convert of longer top
tube shorter stem concept.

On 5/18/20, David Johnston  wrote:
> There are benefits to one-size-fits all bicycles like Bromptons.  I
> suppose there are benefits to reversing your 8cm stem and running a
> 16cm longer top tube, but I think I prefer the benefits of a bike that
> actually fits.
>
> On 5/18/20, Clayton Scott  wrote:
>> A few thoughts:
>>
>> - Completely agree to keep the Hillborne as is. Keep cantis too.
>>
>> - Short stem and drops: Personally I don't see it as "making it work".
>> There are even benefits to it:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, May 18, 2020 at 9:35:13 AM UTC-7, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>>>
>>> To each their own, but if that is “making drop bars work”, it’s not for
>>> me. I’m not afraid of short stems either. But, hey, it’s all about what
>>> works for each individual. I just think the new longer bikes are
>>> designed
>>>
>>> for swept back bars, and if you are near the bottom end of the pbh range
>>> for a given size, most folks are going to consider it a compromise or
>>> worse
>>> to try running drop bars on them.
>>>
>>> I’m interested to see what the new Hillborne color will be. The
>>> black/cream ones were great.
>>>
>>> Eamon
>>> Seattle
>>
>> --
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>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Clayton Scott]

Just to be clear, I am not advocating reversing stems, what I am getting at 
is more along the lines of a 30-50mm stem vs. a 100-120mm stem.

Clayton Scott
HBG, CA

On Monday, May 18, 2020 at 10:58:17 AM UTC-7, Dave Johnston wrote:
>
> There are benefits to one-size-fits all bicycles like Bromptons.  I 
> suppose there are benefits to reversing your 8cm stem and running a 
> 16cm longer top tube, but I think I prefer the benefits of a bike that 
> actually fits. 
>
> On 5/18/20, Clayton Scott > wrote: 
> > A few thoughts: 
> > 
> > - Completely agree to keep the Hillborne as is. Keep cantis too. 
> > 
> > - Short stem and drops: Personally I don't see it as "making it work". 
> > There are even benefits to it: 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Monday, May 18, 2020 at 9:35:13 AM UTC-7, Eamon Nordquist wrote: 
> >> 
> >> To each their own, but if that is “making drop bars work”, it’s not for 
> >> me. I’m not afraid of short stems either. But, hey, it’s all about what 
> >> works for each individual. I just think the new longer bikes are 
> designed 
> >> 
> >> for swept back bars, and if you are near the bottom end of the pbh 
> range 
> >> for a given size, most folks are going to consider it a compromise or 
> >> worse 
> >> to try running drop bars on them. 
> >> 
> >> I’m interested to see what the new Hillborne color will be. The 
> >> black/cream ones were great. 
> >> 
> >> Eamon 
> >> Seattle 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
> > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
> > 
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/6mPLvAp5oEY/unsubscribe. 
>
> > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
> > rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com . 
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> > 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c2fd96fc-7aa4-4e54-964c-0cdf09cca99b%40googlegroups.com.
>  
>
> > 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[David Johnston]

There are benefits to one-size-fits all bicycles like Bromptons.  I
suppose there are benefits to reversing your 8cm stem and running a
16cm longer top tube, but I think I prefer the benefits of a bike that
actually fits.

On 5/18/20, Clayton Scott  wrote:
> A few thoughts:
>
> - Completely agree to keep the Hillborne as is. Keep cantis too.
>
> - Short stem and drops: Personally I don't see it as "making it work".
> There are even benefits to it:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, May 18, 2020 at 9:35:13 AM UTC-7, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>>
>> To each their own, but if that is “making drop bars work”, it’s not for
>> me. I’m not afraid of short stems either. But, hey, it’s all about what
>> works for each individual. I just think the new longer bikes are designed
>>
>> for swept back bars, and if you are near the bottom end of the pbh range
>> for a given size, most folks are going to consider it a compromise or
>> worse
>> to try running drop bars on them.
>>
>> I’m interested to see what the new Hillborne color will be. The
>> black/cream ones were great.
>>
>> Eamon
>> Seattle
>
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