Re: [RE-wrenches] Semi flexible modules

[Maverick Brown]

Jay,

Are they going to be doing a lot of boondocking? Run-in A/C off grid?? 

What size battery bank will they use? If you need to have the most watts 
possible, I suggest using the LG Neons or some other power dense module. As 
Jeff suggests, a ladder rack frame that mounts to the drip edge is a great 
method for attaching rails and therefore panels. 

Good Luck


Maverick

> On Mar 8, 2020, at 6:02 PM, Jay  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> Especially those that do RV,
> 
> Any recommendations as to semi flexible modules?  I find sun power brand, but 
> many others saying “sun power cells”. 
> Prices are of course all over the map. 
> 
> I am asking because a usual offgrid client bought a camper wants solar 
> installed and the semi flexible modules seem like a better solution than 
> framed. Lighter weight, non glass, less to break, etc
> 
> If anyone has anything to share I’d like to hear about
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jay
> Peltz power. 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Semi flexible modules

[Jeff Clearwater]

Hi Jay,

I would questions the assumption that a flexible module is called for 
for an RV.


I've had 600 Watts of traditional framed modules on my Sprinter Van for 
10 yrs now.  These are the 1.5" frames (Panasonic HIP195BA3).  I 
installed 4 rails (prosolar rail) to support the 3 modules the length of 
the van.  The rails are mounted on top of a beefy stainless steel 
Sprinter rack that attaches to the drip edge all around very securely - 
that rack can hold hundreds of pounds - and the  6 uprights that support 
it extend sllightly above the modules.


I find the strong frame edges - coupled with the uprights - clear away 
any branches I might drive into - and they hold up super well.  No need 
for flexible modules.  It does present 1.5" of wind resistance to my 
van's gas mileage - which probably costs more total energy than the 
solar produces if I drive alot but for having full power as a camper - 
nothing beats it.


Just a thought - it's those assumptions that get us every time!

Best!

Jeff

Jay wrote on 3/8/20 4:02 PM:

Hi all,
Especially those that do RV,

Any recommendations as to semi flexible modules?  I find sun power brand, but 
many others saying “sun power cells”.
Prices are of course all over the map.

I am asking because a usual offgrid client bought a camper wants solar 
installed and the semi flexible modules seem like a better solution than 
framed. Lighter weight, non glass, less to break, etc

If anyone has anything to share I’d like to hear about

Thanks

Jay
Peltz power.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Semi flexible modules

[Matt Partymiller]

I have about 250 kW of 10 year old, recently removed Unisolar 144s and
68s and think Larry is correct.  We're testing it for re-sale and most
seem fine after a decade of weathering.  The only failures were ones
placed in areas of the roof prone to ponding.  Removing the panels and
hearing complaints below, I do wonder if some complaints may be based on
misuse.  It sure would be easy to stick flex modules anywhere, even
places they don't belong.  Flat modules stuck on a flat roof can be an
example, and I doubt it just pertains to flex modules.  I suspect
Powerguard may have had the same issue with their crystalline flat
installs that dried up in favor of 10 degree ballast. 

Matt 

Matt Partymiller 

General Manager 

Solar Energy Solutions, LLC 

877-312-7456 

m...@sesre.com 

On 2020-03-09 14:59, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:

> Ray, 
> 
> Thinking of light weight PV modules reminds me that Uni-Solar is gone. Still 
> the highest performance module I have ever tested. Being light weight and 
> unbreakable was the icing on the cake if you had the real estate needed due 
> to efficiency. My hat is still off to the brilliant inventor Stan Ovshinsky.  
>  
> 
> Jay,  
> There are Uni-Solar PVL's floating around. A coupe years ago I found enough 
> to build a 4.4kW off grid system. If you have the length necessary, I would 
> highly recommend using them instead of the Flexible modules you are 
> considering. 
> https://www.amazon.com/Uni-Solar-PVL-68-PowerBond-112-Inch-15-5-Inch/dp/B002MWDI44
>  
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> 
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> On Mar 9, 2020, at 11:07 AM, Ray  wrote: 
> 
> I 2nd Larry's experience.  I've never seen any flex modules that have held up 
> for more than a few years.  Complete degradation in our high altitude UV 
> environment.  Glass with monocrystalline cells on the other hand: we still 
> see some bronzed out Arco (before Siemens) modules that are over 30 years old 
> with decent output.  
> 
> Another possible way to follow the curve is with smaller glass modules. We're 
> having good luck with little modules down to 10 watts.  
> 
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
> 
> On 3/9/20 11:14 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: 
> 
>> Hi Jay,
>> 
>> We sold/installed flexible modules from various manufacturers for about 5 
>> years. When permanently installed, most have a fast degradation of the PET 
>> encapsulate leading to blotching, peeling, cracking and pitting. The weight 
>> savings is significant and may be worth using for some as long as you don't 
>> expect the longevity of a framed, glass module. Customers using them 
>> occasionally as a portable module are experiencing long life.
>> 
>> Larry Crutcher
>> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>> 
>> On Mar 8, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Jay  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> Especially those that do RV,
>> 
>> Any recommendations as to semi flexible modules?  I find sun power brand, 
>> but many others saying "sun power cells". 
>> Prices are of course all over the map. 
>> 
>> I am asking because a usual offgrid client bought a camper wants solar 
>> installed and the semi flexible modules seem like a better solution than 
>> framed. Lighter weight, non glass, less to break, etc
>> 
>> If anyone has anything to share I'd like to hear about
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Jay
>> Peltz power. 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Semi flexible modules

[Starlight Solar Power Systems]

Ray,

Thinking of light weight PV modules reminds me that Uni-Solar is gone. Still 
the highest performance module I have ever tested. Being light weight and 
unbreakable was the icing on the cake if you had the real estate needed due to 
efficiency. My hat is still off to the brilliant inventor Stan Ovshinsky.  

Jay, 
There are Uni-Solar PVL’s floating around. A coupe years ago I found enough to 
build a 4.4kW off grid system. If you have the length necessary, I would highly 
recommend using them instead of the Flexible modules you are considering. 
https://www.amazon.com/Uni-Solar-PVL-68-PowerBond-112-Inch-15-5-Inch/dp/B002MWDI44

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems






On Mar 9, 2020, at 11:07 AM, Ray  wrote:

I 2nd Larry's experience.  I've never seen any flex modules that have held up 
for more than a few years.  Complete degradation in our high altitude UV 
environment.  Glass with monocrystalline cells on the other hand: we still see 
some bronzed out Arco (before Siemens) modules that are over 30 years old with 
decent output.  
Another possible way to follow the curve is with smaller glass modules. We're 
having good luck with little modules down to 10 watts.  
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 3/9/20 11:14 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:
> Hi Jay,
> 
> We sold/installed flexible modules from various manufacturers for about 5 
> years. When permanently installed, most have a fast degradation of the PET 
> encapsulate leading to blotching, peeling, cracking and pitting. The weight 
> savings is significant and may be worth using for some as long as you don’t 
> expect the longevity of a framed, glass module. Customers using them 
> occasionally as a portable module are experiencing long life.
> 
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 8, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Jay  
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> Especially those that do RV,
> 
> Any recommendations as to semi flexible modules?  I find sun power brand, but 
> many others saying “sun power cells”. 
> Prices are of course all over the map. 
> 
> I am asking because a usual offgrid client bought a camper wants solar 
> installed and the semi flexible modules seem like a better solution than 
> framed. Lighter weight, non glass, less to break, etc
> 
> If anyone has anything to share I’d like to hear about
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jay
> Peltz power. 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX upgrade question

[toddcory]

"But the transformers are dedicated to the dc voltage and are not 
interchangeable between the 12, 24, and 48 volt inverters.  The turn ratios are 
different."

This is valuable information Lones... thank you for stepping in and clarifying 
this. 
 
Todd
 
 
 


On Monday, March 9, 2020 10:08am, "Lones Tuss"  said:




Hello All
I will try to answer the original question then address the added concerns.
 
Question
Can I use an original Mate (rather than a Mate3) to set up basic programming 
with a R series inverter, such as charger and LBCO settings?
 
No the FXRs require a Mate3(s) for programming.
 
Question
Can A hub 4 be used with an FXR inverter?
 
It depends, you can use a single FXR  or paralleled  inverters (120) with a HUB 
4
but you cannot Series Stack (120/240) or 3phase stack (120/208) with a Hub 4
 
Question
my suggestion here for others too. Outback still makes and sells the 3 circuit 
boards for the FX series of inverters (i just bought a spare set for our 
GVFX3648 for ~$800.00).
 
Yes all three PCBs are available for the FX inverters.
But the transformers are dedicated to the dc voltage and are not 
interchangeable between the 12, 24, and 48 volt inverters.  The turn ratios are 
different.
 
Below is a link to several whitepapers located on the OutBack Website 
concerning various battery chemistries .
[ http://www.outbackpower.com/resources/documents/app-notes ]( 
http://www.outbackpower.com/resources/documents/app-notes )
 
 
I hope this helps
 
 
 
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of John 
Blittersdorf
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 9:10 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX upgrade question
 


Todd, 

  So is it that the control board and FET board are voltage specific, 
control board also grid tie or off grid specific, AC board common to all and 
Transformer common to all?  I was unsure about the transformer as I have found 
most that I see with some indication of voltage written on the transformer.  
Probably notes to the reassembler?  It makes sense that all 120vac inverters 
would have the same transformer.  This is a good thread to clear up how simple 
it is to mix And match at your pleasure to make what you need from the retired 
FX Series inverters.  I’ve been buying new boards Fron Zonna. Are there other 
sources?

 

 


On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 11:28 AM <[ toddc...@finestplanet.com ]( 
mailto:toddc...@finestplanet.com )> wrote:
I wrote to Allan off list, but will mention my suggestion here for others too. 
Outback still makes and sells the 3 circuit boards for the FX series of 
inverters (i just bought a spare set for our GVFX3648 for ~$800.00). 

 Changing 2 of the 3 cards would make this into a 48 volt inverter. The same 
mate would work with this and as well as the mounts and wiring. only the 
batteries would need changing to 48 volts. The cost would be around $500.00.
 
Todd
 
 


 On Monday, March 9, 2020 4:23am, "John Blittersdorf" <[ 
john.blittersd...@gmail.com ]( mailto:john.blittersd...@gmail.com )> said:



Alan,

  It appears to me that everyone miss read your question.  If your customer 
does not need a generator, then his solar charge controller needs to be able to 
be set up for the lithium battery voltage settings.  So the inverter simply 
needs to be 48 volts and has nothing to do with charging battery.  You could 
use any 48 volt inverter and use the MATE. The inverter would only provide LBCO 
to protect the battery.  As far as a used VFX 3648 contact me off list.

John Blittersdorf

 


On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 8:20 PM Sindelar Solar <[ al...@sindelarsolar.com ]( 
mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com )> wrote:

Wrenches,
I have a client who is looking at upgrading an older off grid system that has 
an Outback VFX3524 inverter to 48Vnom in order to use a Blue Ion LiFePo 
battery. I installed the VFX about ten years ago and it has worked without any 
issues. The client has never had a generator and has enough array to equalize 
his FLA batteries with array only, so has never had or needed a Mate. If I 
upgrade to 48V with a new inverter, it will most likely be an FXR3048. First 
question: Can I use an original Mate (rather than a Mate3) to set up basic 
programming with a R series inverter, such as charger and LBCO settings? 
Second: anyone have an older FX3048 or VFX3648 for sale, if the answer to the 
first question is no?
Thank you, 
Allan

-- 

Allan Sindelar
[ al...@sindelarsolar.com ]( mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com )
 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
 New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
 Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell
 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] VFX produces no output with no error

[Ray]

We had one last year with a bad relay, the customer had been charging a 
Tesla EV through it (pass through from the grid) and smoked the relay.  
It was pretty obvious, the clear relay cover was all covered on the 
inside with burnt relay bits and smoke coating.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 3/9/20 12:13 PM, John Blittersdorf wrote:


Hugh,
   I have one at my guest cabin doing the same thing except that the 
meter on the mate says I have 119 vac but nothing at the AC Out 
terminal.  I think Kent might be right that it may be the AC output 
relay.  It is odd though that there is no error message in your case.  
This inverter had been tortured by the last tenants of the cabin with 
bad generators.  I was actually going to go up there and check it out 
some more as it is warm today. No heat in the cabin.


John Blittersdorf

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 1:00 PM Kent Osterberg > wrote:


Hugh,

I've seen these symptoms before. The problem was a failed output
relay on the ac board.

Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar


On 3/9/2020 9:25 AM, Hugh Piggott wrote:

Hi Wrenches,

I wonder if anyone can tell me what is happening here?

I have an Outback VFX that I used for my own home from
2006-2018.  It’s a 50Hz 240V unit, but similar otherwise to any
other 48V VFX.  It was working well when disconnected.  I needed
to replace the inverter system for other reasons.

I installed this for a neighbour recently on his 48V system, and
it apparently worked when I left the building.

Now it’s not working.  When “off” it shows a warning for
temperatures sensor - fair enough I did not install one.  Maybe
when it gets connected to a generator it will be found a sensor. 
This is the only error or fault with a yes.

When “on” it makes a reassuring buzz and both lights come up
green and there is no error or warning in the Mate.  Just one
problem - no output.

Another weird thing.  I go to the status menu and check meters
 STATUS/FX/METER output voltage and it says “4V”.  So it _knows_
that it is not working but it appears to have no qualms or
misgivings about this state of affairs.  NO error, no warning,
two green lights.

I tried rebooting with the battery fuse.  I tried resetting to
factory defaults.  No joy.

I suppose I will take it to pieces and try to figure out a
hardware failure but I wonder if anyone has seen this and can
give me a clue?

cheers
Hugh


Hugh Piggott
Scoraig Wind Electric
Dundonnell
Ross shire
IV23 2RE,  UK
+44 77 1315 7600
h...@scoraigwind.co.uk 
www.scoraigwind.co.uk 





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Re: [RE-wrenches] VFX produces no output with no error

[John Blittersdorf]

Hugh,
   I have one at my guest cabin doing the same thing except that the meter
on the mate says I have 119 vac but nothing at the AC Out terminal.  I
think Kent might be right that it may be the AC output relay.  It is odd
though that there is no error message in your case.  This inverter had been
tortured by the last tenants of the cabin with bad generators.  I was
actually going to go up there and check it out some more as it is warm
today. No heat in the cabin.

John Blittersdorf

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 1:00 PM Kent Osterberg  wrote:

> Hugh,
>
> I've seen these symptoms before. The problem was a failed output relay on
> the ac board.
>
> Kent Osterberg
> Blue Mountain Solar
>
>
> On 3/9/2020 9:25 AM, Hugh Piggott wrote:
>
> Hi Wrenches,
>
> I wonder if anyone can tell me what is happening here?
>
> I have an Outback VFX that I used for my own home from 2006-2018.  It’s a
> 50Hz 240V unit, but similar otherwise to any other 48V VFX.  It was working
> well when disconnected.  I needed to replace the inverter system for other
> reasons.
>
> I installed this for a neighbour recently on his 48V system, and it
> apparently worked when I left the building.
>
> Now it’s not working.  When “off” it shows a warning for temperatures
> sensor - fair enough I did not install one.  Maybe when it gets connected
> to a generator it will be found a sensor.  This is the only error or fault
> with a yes.
>
> When “on” it makes a reassuring buzz and both lights come up green and
> there is no error or warning in the Mate.  Just one problem - no output.
>
> Another weird thing.  I go to the status menu and check meters
>  STATUS/FX/METER output voltage and it says “4V”.  So it *knows* that it
> is not working but it appears to have no qualms or misgivings about this
> state of affairs.  NO error, no warning, two green lights.
>
> I tried rebooting with the battery fuse.  I tried resetting to factory
> defaults.  No joy.
>
> I suppose I will take it to pieces and try to figure out a hardware
> failure but I wonder if anyone has seen this and can give me a clue?
>
> cheers
> Hugh
>
>
> Hugh Piggott
> Scoraig Wind Electric
> Dundonnell
> Ross shire
> IV23 2RE,  UK
> +44 77 1315 7600
> h...@scoraigwind.co.uk
> www.scoraigwind.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Semi flexible modules

[Jerry Shafer]

Contact sunpointenergy, 7074333946
They have a laminate product that may be what you are looking for has more
power then the old unipolar laminate did
Jerry

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020, 6:39 AM Jay  wrote:

> Hi all,
> Especially those that do RV,
>
> Any recommendations as to semi flexible modules?  I find sun power brand,
> but many others saying “sun power cells”.
> Prices are of course all over the map.
>
> I am asking because a usual offgrid client bought a camper wants solar
> installed and the semi flexible modules seem like a better solution than
> framed. Lighter weight, non glass, less to break, etc
>
> If anyone has anything to share I’d like to hear about
>
> Thanks
>
> Jay
> Peltz power.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Semi flexible modules

[Ray]

I 2nd Larry's experience.  I've never seen any flex modules that have 
held up for more than a few years.  Complete degradation in our high 
altitude UV environment.  Glass with monocrystalline cells on the other 
hand: we still see some bronzed out Arco (before Siemens) modules that 
are over 30 years old with decent output.


Another possible way to follow the curve is with smaller glass modules. 
We're having good luck with little modules down to 10 watts.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 3/9/20 11:14 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:

Hi Jay,

We sold/installed flexible modules from various manufacturers for about 5 
years. When permanently installed, most have a fast degradation of the PET 
encapsulate leading to blotching, peeling, cracking and pitting. The weight 
savings is significant and may be worth using for some as long as you don’t 
expect the longevity of a framed, glass module. Customers using them 
occasionally as a portable module are experiencing long life.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems






On Mar 8, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Jay  wrote:

Hi all,
Especially those that do RV,

Any recommendations as to semi flexible modules?  I find sun power brand, but 
many others saying “sun power cells”.
Prices are of course all over the map.

I am asking because a usual offgrid client bought a camper wants solar 
installed and the semi flexible modules seem like a better solution than 
framed. Lighter weight, non glass, less to break, etc

If anyone has anything to share I’d like to hear about

Thanks

Jay
Peltz power.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Semi flexible modules

[Starlight Solar Power Systems]

Hi Jay,

We sold/installed flexible modules from various manufacturers for about 5 
years. When permanently installed, most have a fast degradation of the PET 
encapsulate leading to blotching, peeling, cracking and pitting. The weight 
savings is significant and may be worth using for some as long as you don’t 
expect the longevity of a framed, glass module. Customers using them 
occasionally as a portable module are experiencing long life.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems






On Mar 8, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Jay  wrote:

Hi all,
Especially those that do RV,

Any recommendations as to semi flexible modules?  I find sun power brand, but 
many others saying “sun power cells”. 
Prices are of course all over the map. 

I am asking because a usual offgrid client bought a camper wants solar 
installed and the semi flexible modules seem like a better solution than 
framed. Lighter weight, non glass, less to break, etc

If anyone has anything to share I’d like to hear about

Thanks

Jay
Peltz power. 



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX upgrade question

[Lones Tuss]

Hello All
I will try to answer the original question then address the added concerns.

Question
Can I use an original Mate (rather than a Mate3) to set up basic programming 
with a R series inverter, such as charger and LBCO settings?

No the FXRs require a Mate3(s) for programming.

Question
Can A hub 4 be used with an FXR inverter?

It depends, you can use a single FXR  or paralleled  inverters (120) with a HUB 
4
but you cannot Series Stack (120/240) or 3phase stack (120/208) with a Hub 4

Question
my suggestion here for others too. Outback still makes and sells the 3 circuit 
boards for the FX series of inverters (i just bought a spare set for our 
GVFX3648 for ~$800.00).

Yes all three PCBs are available for the FX inverters.
But the transformers are dedicated to the dc voltage and are not 
interchangeable between the 12, 24, and 48 volt inverters.  The turn ratios are 
different.

Below is a link to several whitepapers located on the OutBack Website 
concerning various battery chemistries .
http://www.outbackpower.com/resources/documents/app-notes

I hope this helps



From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of John 
Blittersdorf
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 9:10 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX upgrade question

Todd,
  So is it that the control board and FET board are voltage specific, 
control board also grid tie or off grid specific, AC board common to all and 
Transformer common to all?  I was unsure about the transformer as I have found 
most that I see with some indication of voltage written on the transformer.  
Probably notes to the reassembler?  It makes sense that all 120vac inverters 
would have the same transformer.  This is a good thread to clear up how simple 
it is to mix And match at your pleasure to make what you need from the retired 
FX Series inverters.  I’ve been buying new boards Fron Zonna. Are there other 
sources?


On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 11:28 AM 
mailto:toddc...@finestplanet.com>> wrote:

I wrote to Allan off list, but will mention my suggestion here for others too. 
Outback still makes and sells the 3 circuit boards for the FX series of 
inverters (i just bought a spare set for our GVFX3648 for ~$800.00).

Changing 2 of the 3 cards would make this into a 48 volt inverter. The same 
mate would work with this and as well as the mounts and wiring. only the 
batteries would need changing to 48 volts. The cost would be around $500.00.



Todd






On Monday, March 9, 2020 4:23am, "John Blittersdorf" 
mailto:john.blittersd...@gmail.com>> said:
Alan,
  It appears to me that everyone miss read your question.  If your customer 
does not need a generator, then his solar charge controller needs to be able to 
be set up for the lithium battery voltage settings.  So the inverter simply 
needs to be 48 volts and has nothing to do with charging battery.  You could 
use any 48 volt inverter and use the MATE. The inverter would only provide LBCO 
to protect the battery.  As far as a used VFX 3648 contact me off list.
John Blittersdorf

On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 8:20 PM Sindelar Solar 
mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>> wrote:

Wrenches,

I have a client who is looking at upgrading an older off grid system that has 
an Outback VFX3524 inverter to 48Vnom in order to use a Blue Ion LiFePo 
battery. I installed the VFX about ten years ago and it has worked without any 
issues. The client has never had a generator and has enough array to equalize 
his FLA batteries with array only, so has never had or needed a Mate. If I 
upgrade to 48V with a new inverter, it will most likely be an FXR3048. First 
question: Can I use an original Mate (rather than a Mate3) to set up basic 
programming with a R series inverter, such as charger and LBCO settings? 
Second: anyone have an older FX3048 or VFX3648 for sale, if the answer to the 
first question is no?

Thank you,

Allan
--
Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell

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Re: [RE-wrenches] VFX produces no output with no error

[Kirpal]

HughTypically the temp Sense warning is not related to an external temp
sensor, rather an internal temperature sensor.  The Outback inverters
typically will run normally even with this temp sensor not working.  I
believe it is related to temperature of one of the boards and relates to
turning the cooling fan on if present - normally it is not related to a
battery temp sensor which is what I got the impression you understood it to
be. However, typically this will show up as a red blinking error light
which signifies a warning instead of a solid red error light during which
the inverter may stop working.


Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
Oregon LRT#25
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Oregon Solarworks LLC
www.oregonsolarworks.com
541-299-0402


On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 10:00 AM Kent Osterberg  wrote:

> Hugh,
>
> I've seen these symptoms before. The problem was a failed output relay on
> the ac board.
>
> Kent Osterberg
> Blue Mountain Solar
>
>
> On 3/9/2020 9:25 AM, Hugh Piggott wrote:
>
> Hi Wrenches,
>
> I wonder if anyone can tell me what is happening here?
>
> I have an Outback VFX that I used for my own home from 2006-2018.  It’s a
> 50Hz 240V unit, but similar otherwise to any other 48V VFX.  It was working
> well when disconnected.  I needed to replace the inverter system for other
> reasons.
>
> I installed this for a neighbour recently on his 48V system, and it
> apparently worked when I left the building.
>
> Now it’s not working.  When “off” it shows a warning for temperatures
> sensor - fair enough I did not install one.  Maybe when it gets connected
> to a generator it will be found a sensor.  This is the only error or fault
> with a yes.
>
> When “on” it makes a reassuring buzz and both lights come up green and
> there is no error or warning in the Mate.  Just one problem - no output.
>
> Another weird thing.  I go to the status menu and check meters
>  STATUS/FX/METER output voltage and it says “4V”.  So it *knows* that it
> is not working but it appears to have no qualms or misgivings about this
> state of affairs.  NO error, no warning, two green lights.
>
> I tried rebooting with the battery fuse.  I tried resetting to factory
> defaults.  No joy.
>
> I suppose I will take it to pieces and try to figure out a hardware
> failure but I wonder if anyone has seen this and can give me a clue?
>
> cheers
> Hugh
>
>
> Hugh Piggott
> Scoraig Wind Electric
> Dundonnell
> Ross shire
> IV23 2RE,  UK
> +44 77 1315 7600
> h...@scoraigwind.co.uk
> www.scoraigwind.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] VFX produces no output with no error

[Kent Osterberg]

Hugh,

I've seen these symptoms before. The problem was a failed output relay 
on the ac board.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar


On 3/9/2020 9:25 AM, Hugh Piggott wrote:

Hi Wrenches,

I wonder if anyone can tell me what is happening here?

I have an Outback VFX that I used for my own home from 2006-2018. 
 It’s a 50Hz 240V unit, but similar otherwise to any other 48V VFX. 
 It was working well when disconnected.  I needed to replace the 
inverter system for other reasons.


I installed this for a neighbour recently on his 48V system, and it 
apparently worked when I left the building.


Now it’s not working.  When “off” it shows a warning for temperatures 
sensor - fair enough I did not install one.  Maybe when it gets 
connected to a generator it will be found a sensor.  This is the only 
error or fault with a yes.


When “on” it makes a reassuring buzz and both lights come up green and 
there is no error or warning in the Mate.  Just one problem - no output.


Another weird thing.  I go to the status menu and check meters 
 STATUS/FX/METER output voltage and it says “4V”.  So it _knows_ that 
it is not working but it appears to have no qualms or misgivings about 
this state of affairs.  NO error, no warning, two green lights.


I tried rebooting with the battery fuse.  I tried resetting to factory 
defaults.  No joy.


I suppose I will take it to pieces and try to figure out a hardware 
failure but I wonder if anyone has seen this and can give me a clue?


cheers
Hugh


Hugh Piggott
Scoraig Wind Electric
Dundonnell
Ross shire
IV23 2RE,  UK
+44 77 1315 7600
h...@scoraigwind.co.uk 
www.scoraigwind.co.uk 





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Semi flexible modules

[Jesse Dahl]

I bought some from Iron Edison a few years ago. They were going to be mounted 
on the front radius of a fish house but the people sold the fish house due to a 
job move so I never installed them. Can’t tell ya much else about them. Here is 
the link. 

https://ironedison.com/100-watt-flexible-solar-panel

Jesse 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 8, 2020, at 7:09 PM, Jay  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> Especially those that do RV,
> 
> Any recommendations as to semi flexible modules?  I find sun power brand, but 
> many others saying “sun power cells”. 
> Prices are of course all over the map. 
> 
> I am asking because a usual offgrid client bought a camper wants solar 
> installed and the semi flexible modules seem like a better solution than 
> framed. Lighter weight, non glass, less to break, etc
> 
> If anyone has anything to share I’d like to hear about
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jay
> Peltz power. 
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[RE-wrenches] VFX produces no output with no error

[Hugh Piggott]

Hi Wrenches,

I wonder if anyone can tell me what is happening here?

I have an Outback VFX that I used for my own home from 2006-2018.  It’s a 50Hz 
240V unit, but similar otherwise to any other 48V VFX.  It was working well 
when disconnected.  I needed to replace the inverter system for other reasons.

I installed this for a neighbour recently on his 48V system, and it apparently 
worked when I left the building.

Now it’s not working.  When “off” it shows a warning for temperatures sensor - 
fair enough I did not install one.  Maybe when it gets connected to a generator 
it will be found a sensor.  This is the only error or fault with a yes.

When “on” it makes a reassuring buzz and both lights come up green and there is 
no error or warning in the Mate.  Just one problem - no output.  

Another weird thing.  I go to the status menu and check meters  STATUS/FX/METER 
output voltage and it says “4V”.  So it knows that it is not working but it 
appears to have no qualms or misgivings about this state of affairs.  NO error, 
no warning, two green lights.

I tried rebooting with the battery fuse.  I tried resetting to factory 
defaults.  No joy.

I suppose I will take it to pieces and try to figure out a hardware failure but 
I wonder if anyone has seen this and can give me a clue?

cheers
Hugh


Hugh Piggott
Scoraig Wind Electric
Dundonnell
Ross shire
IV23 2RE,  UK
+44 77 1315 7600
h...@scoraigwind.co.uk
www.scoraigwind.co.uk 




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX upgrade question

[John Blittersdorf]

Todd,
  So is it that the control board and FET board are voltage specific,
control board also grid tie or off grid specific, AC board common to all
and Transformer common to all?  I was unsure about the transformer as I
have found most that I see with some indication of voltage written on the
transformer.  Probably notes to the reassembler?  It makes sense that all
120vac inverters would have the same transformer.  This is a good thread to
clear up how simple it is to mix And match at your pleasure to make what
you need from the retired FX Series inverters.  I’ve been buying new boards
Fron Zonna. Are there other sources?


On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 11:28 AM  wrote:

> I wrote to Allan off list, but will mention my suggestion here for others
> too. Outback still makes and sells the 3 circuit boards for the FX series
> of inverters (i just bought a spare set for our GVFX3648 for ~$800.00).
>
> Changing 2 of the 3 cards would make this into a 48 volt inverter. The
> same mate would work with this and as well as the mounts and wiring. only
> the batteries would need changing to 48 volts. The cost would be around
> $500.00.
>
>
>
> Todd
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, March 9, 2020 4:23am, "John Blittersdorf" <
> john.blittersd...@gmail.com> said:
>
> Alan,
>   It appears to me that everyone miss read your question.  If your
> customer does not need a generator, then his solar charge controller needs
> to be able to be set up for the lithium battery voltage settings.  So the
> inverter simply needs to be 48 volts and has nothing to do with charging
> battery.  You could use any 48 volt inverter and use the MATE. The inverter
> would only provide LBCO to protect the battery.  As far as a used VFX 3648
> contact me off list.
> John Blittersdorf
>
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 8:20 PM Sindelar Solar 
> wrote:
>
>> Wrenches,
>>
>> I have a client who is looking at upgrading an older off grid system that
>> has an Outback VFX3524 inverter to 48Vnom in order to use a Blue Ion
>> LiFePo battery. I installed the VFX about ten years ago and it has worked
>> without any issues. The client has never had a generator and has enough
>> array to equalize his FLA batteries with array only, so has never had or
>> needed a Mate. If I upgrade to 48V with a new inverter, it will most likely
>> be an FXR3048. First question: Can I use an original Mate (rather than a
>> Mate3) to set up basic programming with a R series inverter, such as
>> charger and LBCO settings? Second: anyone have an older FX3048 or VFX3648
>> for sale, if the answer to the first question is no?
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Allan
>> --
>>
>> *Allan Sindelar*
>> al...@sindelarsolar.com
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
>> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
>> *505 780-2738 cell*
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
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>>
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>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX upgrade question

[toddcory]

I wrote to Allan off list, but will mention my suggestion here for others too. 
Outback still makes and sells the 3 circuit boards for the FX series of 
inverters (i just bought a spare set for our GVFX3648 for ~$800.00). 

Changing 2 of the 3 cards would make this into a 48 volt inverter. The same 
mate would work with this and as well as the mounts and wiring. only the 
batteries would need changing to 48 volts. The cost would be around $500.00.
 
Todd
 
 


On Monday, March 9, 2020 4:23am, "John Blittersdorf" 
 said:




Alan,
  It appears to me that everyone miss read your question.  If your customer 
does not need a generator, then his solar charge controller needs to be able to 
be set up for the lithium battery voltage settings.  So the inverter simply 
needs to be 48 volts and has nothing to do with charging battery.  You could 
use any 48 volt inverter and use the MATE. The inverter would only provide LBCO 
to protect the battery.  As far as a used VFX 3648 contact me off list.
John Blittersdorf



On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 8:20 PM Sindelar Solar <[ al...@sindelarsolar.com ]( 
mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com )> wrote:

Wrenches,
I have a client who is looking at upgrading an older off grid system that has 
an Outback VFX3524 inverter to 48Vnom in order to use a Blue Ion LiFePo 
battery. I installed the VFX about ten years ago and it has worked without any 
issues. The client has never had a generator and has enough array to equalize 
his FLA batteries with array only, so has never had or needed a Mate. If I 
upgrade to 48V with a new inverter, it will most likely be an FXR3048. First 
question: Can I use an original Mate (rather than a Mate3) to set up basic 
programming with a R series inverter, such as charger and LBCO settings? 
Second: anyone have an older FX3048 or VFX3648 for sale, if the answer to the 
first question is no?
Thank you, 
Allan
-- 


Allan Sindelar
[ al...@sindelarsolar.com ]( mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com )
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
 New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
 Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX upgrade question

[John Blittersdorf]

Alan,
  It appears to me that everyone miss read your question.  If your customer
does not need a generator, then his solar charge controller needs to be
able to be set up for the lithium battery voltage settings.  So the
inverter simply needs to be 48 volts and has nothing to do with charging
battery.  You could use any 48 volt inverter and use the MATE. The inverter
would only provide LBCO to protect the battery.  As far as a used VFX 3648
contact me off list.

John Blittersdorf


On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 8:20 PM Sindelar Solar 
wrote:

> Wrenches,
>
> I have a client who is looking at upgrading an older off grid system that
> has an Outback VFX3524 inverter to 48Vnom in order to use a Blue Ion
> LiFePo battery. I installed the VFX about ten years ago and it has worked
> without any issues. The client has never had a generator and has enough
> array to equalize his FLA batteries with array only, so has never had or
> needed a Mate. If I upgrade to 48V with a new inverter, it will most likely
> be an FXR3048. First question: Can I use an original Mate (rather than a
> Mate3) to set up basic programming with a R series inverter, such as
> charger and LBCO settings? Second: anyone have an older FX3048 or VFX3648
> for sale, if the answer to the first question is no?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Allan
> --
>
> *Allan Sindelar*
> al...@sindelarsolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> *505 780-2738 cell*
>
>
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