Re: [RE-wrenches] Utility refuses to upgrade transformer to accommodate photovoltaic system
Hi Jason Out of curiosity how big is this PV system? Good luck and keep us informed. Jay Peltz power On Jan 16, 2014, at 12:45 PM, b...@midnitesolar.com b...@midnitesolar.com wrote: I wonder if anybody at the FSEC might have some good advice here ? Just a wild guess... boB On 1/16/2014 12:08 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: Florida Power and Light (FPL) rejected my request to upgrade a utility transformer (at my cost) to accommodate backfeed from a PV system. Their basis is their own Net Metering Guidelines, which are not the same as the Florida Public Service Commission's Netmetering Rule (law). I believe the property owner is within his rights to proceed with the project and should be approved for interconnection. I'm appealing to the PSC for assistance, but if you have any advice or contacts that may be able to help, please contact me off list. What is boils down to (I think) is the utility's interpretation of the Rule. They believe the intent is to allow people to netmeter to the extent that it offsets their consumption only. If that were strictly the case, there would be no provision for payment for excess energy produced annually (at wholesale rates). The Netmetering Rule allows backfeed up to 90% of the customer's service capacity, without regard for the energy consumption, but doesn't clarify if the utility is obligated to upgrade service capacity upon request. They've dug their heels in, and now it's David vs. Goliath. (David did win that one, right?) Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] interchangeability of battery temp sensors
Hi Mac Outback and midnight are compatible but not with xantrex Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jan 15, 2014, at 8:47 AM, Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Hello wrenches, Does anyone know if the older xantrex bts/15 temp sensor is the interchangeable with the Outback RTS temp sensor. The pins look the same. A quick internet search was not conclusive. I just found an old box jammed in a closet of the bts/15 and want to put them to use. Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248VFX system
Hi bill My $.02. Single vfx3524, Trojan IND in an AC electric house with about a dozen LEDs of 5 or 6 different types and brands. No flickering at all, no dimmers. One test I thought of was to,run the generator and see if the flicker continues. If so, then bypass the inverters to take the chargers off line, As to bulbs, I've been super happy with the Cree ones from Home Depot. $10 ish and beautiful light both warm and daylight. Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 VFX system
Hi Kirpal Are the lights on dimmers? Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jan 6, 2014, at 1:09 PM, Kirpal Khalsa solarwo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi All.have a puzzling problemcustomer has a fully LED lit house. All LED lights are flickering when the fridge compressor, tile saw, grinder, washing machine etc come onThe inverters are about 6 years old Dual Outback VFX7248 power system with rolls surrrette batteries.they are building the house and most motors when they are running, including the fridge seem to cause the LED lights to flicker continuously while the motors are running, the fridge seems to be the worst culprit and just so happens to be the most regular and often runner (fridge is a Amana Model # ARB2257CC rated at 7.7 AmpsFridge is on a GFI outlet...The LED bulbs are Eco Smart made by Cree.Model 499 485 and they are all dimmable lights and they are on Lutron CL dimmer switches which are supposed to be compatible with LED bulbs.) Looking for any advice or others experience to try to solve this annoying problem.Anyone else have this problem with these particular bulbs or similar experiences with these or other LED bulbs I am having the customer try some other makes and brands of bulbs. Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Renewable Energy Systems www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-218-0201 m 541-592-3958 o ___ List sponsored by Home Power .org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 VFX system
Dimmers are super specific to light brand/type. You'll have to do the research For now swapping to regular switches should work Jay ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Electric fence, metal buildings, lightning protection systems
Hi Erika, What seems to be the issue? And what equipment ( inverters ) are you using Jay Peltz power On Dec 6, 2013, at 5:57 AM, Erika Weliczko er...@repowersolutions.com wrote: Anyone had to contend with electric fence installation (AC controller) using a ground rod (not main service) at remote farm building and messing with inverters? And perhaps causing other issues? Of course, this is a metal roof with a lightning protection system (i.e. bare braided copper on roof all the way to rod.) I think we need to redirect the electric fence wire to its own dedicated rods, away from the building that has solar. Insights are appreciated. Thanks, Erika ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Wiring methods
Hi August, I can only assume that the inspectors are talking about say running a return leg which would have no pair back to the combiner/junction box? jay peltz power On Nov 19, 2013, at 9:38 AM, August Goers wrote: Hi All – On a related note, I’ve become good friends with some of the inspectors in San Francisco and they called me yesterday with a question. Is it okay to run individual DC conductors through EMT for wire management purposes? We have always run paired positive and negative conductors in conduit so the question had never occurred to me. Obviously, you have to bond both ends of the conduit if it is over 250 v. I know that AC would have induction issues with running individual conductors but I’m not sure with DC. Thanks, August August Goers Principal Luminalt Energy Corporation o: 415.641.4000 m: 415.559.1525 www.luminalt.com From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 11:33 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Wiring methods Bill: There is no need to stuff MC4 cables into standard conduit. You can either slot the pipe using our easy method or install bulkhead type connectors. The connectors are readily available. I get them from PV Cables in Northern California.. Wire routing problems and some solutions can be found on our web-site: http://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/practices/PV_wiring/_PV_Wiring2.html Since the industry won’t provide wire management solutions, we are making our own. Questions: Just write or call. William Miller From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of frenergy Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 7:46 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Wiring methods William, Billfrom another Bill, Two things: For the rest of us (maybe it's just me?!) that's still trying to figure out how (or why) to stuff a MC4 connector into conduit and my hesitation in using SS wire ties for fear of the sharp edges cutting or chaffing into cables, I'm open for advice. Any wire I use on the roof is rated for that type of service and I have some off-grid systems that have been in the sun for some 25 years where the wire still looks nearly new even when flexing it to look for checking/cracks. It seems the wire/insulation can take it, thus it seems like the key to wire management is to keep the wire from moving and off the roof, secured to the racking, thus not compromising the insulation. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Wiring methods
Hi Bill, I get mine from PV-cables Less expensive and no minimum order Cheers, jay peltz power On Nov 14, 2013, at 6:21 PM, Bill Hoffer wrote: Jason I just started using Nine Fasteners, Inc www.ninefasteners.com . 410 stainless wire management clips. Got turned on to them at SPI this year. They are awesome, same basic clip concept except they add a nice rounding along the edges that keeps it from cutting into the wire. A step above the rest and in quantities of 500 buy direct for $.28 - .29 each depending on the style. They are open to custom design ideas, made in the good old USA, and customer service was outstanding too! Bill Hoffer Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.com wrote: I know we've had this discussion before, but I wanted to again recommend the WireClips from PV Racking. We are using them on Enphase trunk lines, and find them to be great for this purpose. At $0.25 each, they are cost effective. That said, wire management is often a matter of strong opinion, and we are far from standardization and an accepted set of best practices. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Kirpal Khalsa solarwo...@gmail.com wrote: Augustthank youyou are right they are actually a Heyco productmy bad!!! Ray, we recently got them thru http://www.heilind.com/products/heyco/Heyco_solar.asp Ray...Contact me off list and i will share my sales persons contact info.. Cheers, Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Renewable Energy Systems www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-218-0201 m 541-592-3958 o ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Bill Hoffer 161 SE Fourth Ave P.O. Box 1823 White Salmon, WA 98672 suneng...@gmail.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] To stack or not to stack? Off-grid 240V
Hi Hilton, In my experience the only way to know if it will work is to try it. ( it'll run it, but might not start it) Because there are so many different quality motors out there all with similar ratings but they don't work the same. I've seen a 5hp completely trip off line a 15kw diesel generator. One option is to swap the motor for a 3 phase and then get a 240 single phase to 3 phase motor speed controller. This will allow a soft start, very cool stuff. let us know what you do, jay peltz power On Oct 29, 2013, at 7:47 PM, Hilton Dier III wrote: Hello Wrenches, I have an off-grid client with a 24V system and an old Xantrex SW4024. He wants 240VAC capability with enough oomph for sometimes making a cut with his 3 hp table saw without starting the generator. I am looking at Apollo, Magnum, and Outback inverters. I'm most familiar with Outback. I have a couple of installations out there with stacked 3.6 kW Outbacks. However, the Apollo marketing promises that their 3.2 kW inverter will start a 3 hp motor. Will it actually, and is this a good idea even if it can? I'd appreciate hearing about your experiences with 240V Apollo units, stacked Magnums, and stacked Outbacks. I know from experience that the Outbacks require some hundreds of dollars of extra fittings and electronics to make a proper stacked installation. How about Magnum? Any comments on reliability? Many Thanks, Hilton -- Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Partner, Solar Gain LLC 453 East Hill Rd. Middlesex, VT 05602 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 12V battery charger
Hi dave I have used the power max, it works well. Made by some ex Iota engineers if I have the correct info. http://www.powermaxconverters.com Jay Peltz power On Oct 30, 2013, at 1:16 PM, Dave Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.com wrote: Wrenches, I’m looking for a battery charger to augment an OutBack FX 2012 inverter/charger for a 12V off-grid system that could use shorter charging times during our cloudy late fall/winter periods in northern Vermont. Both the generator and the battery bank are amply sized as is the PV array. I have used Iota chargers in the past, but wondered if they are other options worth considering. Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:57 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] To stack or not to stack? Off-grid 240V Hilton, Kevin's comments are well taken. To add a bit: Magnum are exceptionally easy to set up and program. The user interface is well designed. A few issues to be aware of from my experience: - All of our Magnum-based off grid systems have been single inverter. At 4 kW, a single inverter may not be enough for that particular 3hp motor - best to CYA with the customer on the possible need for a stacked pair. - Magnum allows a pretty wide voltage dip to accomplish surge capacity, so when the saw starts, expect lights to flicker. Our CF bulbs flicker when the refrigerator starts. Our trial with Apollo a couple of years ago was probably the single most negative experience with an inverter manufacturer of my career. Kevin's comment that the most basic programming required hooking up to a computer is accurate. The computer must have their proprietary software installed, and the hookup was necessary even to initiate an equalize charge from an AC source. We have several warranty replacement and takeout units on a shelf here, from two installations (including in my own home) where the equipment was replaced after being unable to get it to work reliably. Ultimately, Apollo agreed in writing to reimburse us for the cost to replace their equipment with another brand. They never came through. Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder, Positive Energy, Inc. A Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell www.positiveenergysolar.com On 10/29/2013 10:32 PM, Kevin Pegg wrote: Hi Hilton, My $0.05 worth as off-grid is my primary domain. The SW4024 is an excellent inverter, reliable, robust and if you can find another stack them for 240 and will have no issues with the 3 HP table saw (assuming batteries can handle that is). I run my whole home from a 13 year old pair of them. Magnum makes an excellent, robust, and reliable off-grid inverter. Available in 120 or 240 without stack. Stacking Magnums (for more power) is straightforward and the user interface is very simple and intuitive. There is some different hardware required for stacking. If a second SW4024 isn't an option then this is what I would do. I test installed an Apollo unit last year. What a frustrating experience that was. It requires a computer and a RS485 interface to program the most basic features to make the unit usable. Nice when I was real remote and without Internet. That alone makes it unappealing in my books. Seems they are a bit behind the rest of the crowd. I'd not trust a marketing department claim it will start that saw unless they can demonstrate it. (with of course some other loads on the system - having to power down the house so one can work in the shop is hardly usable). Outback units are common, though suffer from weak battery chargers and power quality issues while under charge so for off-grid that involves any significant generator charging they are not ideal. They are complex to program and operate and end users report lots of frustration. Kevin -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of Hilton Dier III Sent: October 29, 2013 6:48 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] To stack or not to stack? Off-grid 240V Hello Wrenches, I have an off-grid client with a 24V system and an old Xantrex SW4024. He wants 240VAC capability with enough oomph for sometimes making a cut with his 3 hp table saw without starting the generator. I am looking at Apollo, Magnum, and Outback inverters. I'm
Re: [RE-wrenches] Adding Charge Controller(s)
Hi Jeffe, I don't know the specs on those Kyocera, but if they are the same VOC then they are fine together. As to a enclosure for the CC's, I'd look at Midnight. They have about a million different boxes, you'll find one that will do the job for you I'm sure. Depending on the area, you might look at a midnight 150v, or 200v or 250v controller, as you can then run all in series. jay peltz power On Oct 24, 2013, at 1:13 PM, Jesse Dahl wrote: Hello, Looked at a system today that consisted of the following: 15 - Kyocera 158W modules 3 - Kyocera 185W modules 1 - Outback MX60 8 - New Trojan L16RE (48V system) 1 - Xantrex SW Plus 6 months ago he swapped out his old charge controller to the new MX60 and purchased the new batteries at that time. The array wiring did not change and is wired in 6 strings of 3. (confusing to the MX60?) He is now adding 4 Kyocera 240W modules. He also purchased another MX60 for this array. From my perspective, removing the 3 185W modules and getting them on their own controller would be a better use of the modules. The system currently does not have any disconnects on the PV side. There are fuses in the combiner boxes on the array, but no disconnects inside at the charge controller. So adding 3 charge controllers, and now needing to add GFDI, means a box of some kind needs to be added to house these breakers. Outbacks GFPs and panel mount breakers will work, but what is the best mounting solution for these? One DC Flexware enclosure? It will of course allow for all the DC OCPD and allow for the landing of the output of the charge controllers. Or is there another enclosure/OCPD solution I should look at? Thanks as always! Jesse ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] 230 50 hz kWh meters
Hi All, Does anyone know of either dial or EZ read kWh meters that can work with 230v 50 hz, 100 amp is more than enough thanks jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Pump end repair needed_helical rotor SQFlex
Hi Mick Have you tried preferred pump here in ca? Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Oct 9, 2013, at 9:11 AM, Mick Abraham m...@abrahamsolar.com wrote: Hello, Wrenchies~ I supplied the Grundfos SQFlex 11 SQF-2 helical rotor pump to a client back in the good old days before dear Grundfos decided us solar guys weren't good enough to shepherd their pumps. Serious drought caused the well to dry up; the pump got pulled but did not get a rinse-through with clean water. The mud inside the rotor dried out and cemented the rotor in place. I think the motor is fine but is repeatedly going into self-protect mode since things won't turn. My client needs a repair that I am not qualified to handle since...after all...I'm just a solar guy not good enough to receive customer support from the Mother Ship. ++ Authorized Grundfos pump guy #1 opened things up, declared that the machined rubber volute was chewed, and he offered to install parts from his shelf, but his parts were for model 6, not 11 so the gallons per minute would go way down. Authorized Grundfos pump guy #2--the wholesaler in El Paso from whom I originally bought the pump--says these are never repaired, just replaced and of course for close to $3000. + Non-authorized pump guy me finds the universe to be absurd at times but not this absurd...surely not this absurd... So there's my dilemma of the week, Friends. Kindly point the way to any shop that could repair this problem child. Thanks Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GTBB resistance
Hi William I have been giving this some though. As we know it makes no sense, now. What don't we know about electric prices in the near future that might make this cost effective? Jay Peltz pow On Oct 9, 2013, at 12:03 PM, William Miller will...@millersolar.com wrote: Friends: I have been informed of another article on this subject: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-07/battery-stored-solar-power-sparks-backlash-from-utilities.html The subject came up on this forum recently and most of us said or thought, “how stupid, there is no good reason to ever do this, the efficiency losses do not justify this!” Ironically, just a few days later one of us posted questions about how to do something quite like this (SW Inverters in energy management mode). Food for thought… William ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SunBandit Hybrid Solar Water Heater
Hi Jason I would only add that this continues the issue with single tank solar/ grid combos IE it's hard to make sure the heat is coming from solar, as the tank has the thermostat from the grid side as well. It's a solution still looking for a problem. Jay Peltz power On Oct 3, 2013, at 1:13 PM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.com wrote: Anyone else getting inundated with SunBandit Hybrid Solar Water Heating System marketing emails? Any first impressions? Here are my initial thoughts: Pros - provides hot water in utility outages, no interconnection hassles, possibly easier permitting hurdles, eliminates moving parts in active SDHW systems Cons - no grid-tie, any excess energy produced is wasted, AHJs won't know how to categorize equipment for permitting and may chargesolar water heating and PV permits and inspections I haven't dug too deep, but one strange thing I think I saw on a spec sheet was that the micro-AC Grid (aka microinverter) is UL 1703. If that is the case, how does the PV continue to provide water heating in a utility outage? What I really don't understand is why there is a need for a microinverter at all? Why not just use a DC element? I guess a microinverter, despite minor efficiency losses, is cheaper than a load controller. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator automatic disconnect
What about running the genny through one inverter and putting a transfer switch on the AC out which opens the ac out. Meaning 100% charging but no loads. Jay Sent from my iPhone On Oct 2, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems la...@starlightsolar.com wrote: Ray, I had thought about this but it seems that with all inverters paralleled and controlled through the router that it would not allow one to charge and pass through the generator power while the others are inverting. Do you know a way of doing this. Larry On Oct 1, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: If they HAD to have the wee Generac, you could have it feed only one inverter, and the other 3 Magnums could stay in invert mode. I have large systems where I'm not using the charger off every inverter. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 10/1/2013 11:09 AM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: You are right. Normally I would not even consider a generator of this size. My constant thinking outside the box took me down this rabbit trail. I'm back. Thank you, Larry ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator automatic disconnect
Exactly Jay Sent from my iPhone On Oct 2, 2013, at 11:48 AM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems la...@starlightsolar.com wrote: If you mean automatic transfer, how would you trigger it since AC power will be present from both sources at the inverter output? Do you mean a N.C. contactor that would open on gen power, something like attached drawing? Larry Screen Shot 2013-10-02 at 11.43.47 AM.png On Oct 2, 2013, at 10:37 AM, Jay Peltz j...@asis.com wrote: What about running the genny through one inverter and putting a transfer switch on the AC out which opens the ac out. Meaning 100% charging but no loads. Jay Sent from my iPhone On Oct 2, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems la...@starlightsolar.com wrote: Ray, I had thought about this but it seems that with all inverters paralleled and controlled through the router that it would not allow one to charge and pass through the generator power while the others are inverting. Do you know a way of doing this. Larry On Oct 1, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: If they HAD to have the wee Generac, you could have it feed only one inverter, and the other 3 Magnums could stay in invert mode. I have large systems where I'm not using the charger off every inverter. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Using legacy modules on micro-inverters
Hi Bill Is there a new M250? Enphase shows the 250 at 48vdc max and states 60 cell only modules. That would be nice if it did both Jay Peltz power. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Bill Brooks billbroo...@yahoo.com wrote: William, Just to add one more thing. I said that the M215 does not match well, but if you have them on hand, they would still work. You will probably power limit in the spring and fall, but the rest of the year you will probably do fine. The M250 has a higher operating voltage for 72-cell arrangements. The M215 is more suited for 60-cell modules and circuits. Bill. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 10:01 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Using legacy modules on micro-inverters Friends: I am trying to upgrade a long time off-grid client to a grid-connected installation. They have a mix of Siemens PC4JF and Shell SQ-150P modules. It is my understanding that putting two of the PC4JFs in series is exactly one SQ-150. I don’t have spec sheets for the PC4JFs but I am told they are an SP75. If I use the data for the SP75 and multiply the voltages by two I get exactly a SQ-150P. Anyway, putting two 36 modules together makes one 72 cell module. This would likely work with an Enphase M190 but those are no longer manufactured. Same with the M215. Power One makes a micro that meets the predicted voltage window. I did this a while ago with pairs of SR100s. It worked great. Anyone try this with even older modules, like those cited??? Thanks in advance. William Miller ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] On demand WH
Hi bill Just installed a takagi TK4 6 watts standby, pilotless 87 watts on 110 watts freeze element. Solar preheat ready This one has a fan Others I've seen have no fan, and some with no standby watts or pilot Jay Peltz power. On Sep 28, 2013, at 9:19 PM, frenergy frene...@psln.com wrote: Off-grid Wrenches, I'm working on a load sheet and am having a hard time finding standby and while firing electrical usage for a propane-fired on demand water heater. Do they some/all have standing pilots, glow bars, something else? I'm guessing the standby power needs are very low but we all know how even 10-15 watts adds up over 24 hrs when you're off-grid. If any body has some actual numbers rather than just pdf.specs (though manus specs might help some), I would be most grateful. Thanks in advance. Bill Feather River Solar Electric ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC sizing for a high amp, low voltage PV system with microinverters
I believe this is the tenK solar product being talked about. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Sep 18, 2013, at 8:49 AM, August Goers aug...@luminalt.com wrote: Hi Charlie, I can't help but be intrigued by your setup here. It seems like the complete opposite of where our commercial systems are going with transformerless 1000 V inverters entering the market. Anyway, I'm sure it's an interesting project and there may very well be advantages to the system you're building. I agree with Dave below that you should be okay with a #6 run to a ground rod. Otherwise, your logic for sizing the GEC seems correct. We deal with this similar issue when designing battery backup systems and the GEC can get unwieldy very quickly. I would just point out your sizing logic per 250.166(C) on your plans for the inspector to see. Best, August From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Click Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 5:38 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC sizing for a high amp, low voltage PV system with microinverters I think Gary may be overthinking this. If the micro-inverters have a GEC lug then you'll need to run a GEC. If you run your GEC to a ground rod, then you don't need to use one larger than #6 per 250.166(C). (note also (D) and (E) but they're less useful to you here) Commentary: It makes no sense to me why the NEC can require a 0.9in diameter, #600mcm GEC for some systems (not this one) per 250.166(B) and then say oh wait, you installed a single ground rod? Then a #6 is all you need! in 250.166(C). But it certainly makes our lives easier. If the building GE is not a ground rod, you could still run your #6 GEC to that new ground rod, and then bond that rod to the existing electrode using whatever size jumper is required per 250.53 (which I believe would also be a #6). This lets you keep that 300' run as a #6 rather than a #4 or #2 that may be required otherwise. DKC On 2013/9/17 23:56, Gary Willett wrote: Charlie: The answer depends on whether the system (modules and micro-inverters) is grounded or ungrounded. I think you are describing a grounded system, but it's not totally clear based on your issue description. If the micro-inverter is transformer-less the conductors are not isolated between the DC-in and the AC-out. This requires the micro-inverter to have no DC-side system ground. The micro-inverter AC-side always requires an EGC. I am assuming that the PV modules are in close proximity to the micro-inverters, and the 300' home-run is for the AC outputs of the micro-inverters. Is either DC bus (PV+ or PV-) a grounded conductor, or are both busses ungrounded? If the DC-side combiners and re-combiners have OCPDs and disconnecting means for both PV+ and PV-, then your system is considered to be floating or ungrounded. If the system is ungrounded, a GEC is not required on the DC-side of the micro-inverter, and only an AC-EGC sized per NEC 690.45 is required. If the DC-side combiners and re-combiners have OCPDs and disconnecting means for only one conductor (PV+ or PV-), then your PV system is considered to be grounded. If the system is grounded, the combined DC-GEC and AC-EGC sizing requirements in NEC 690.47(C)(3) apply. The larger of the EGC (Table 250.122) and GEC [250.166(B)] sizes will be required. More specifics on the PV module Vmpp and micro-inverter you're dealing with would be helpful. Regards, Gary Willett Icarus Solar On 9/17/13 8:37 PM, Aladdin Solar wrote: We will be installing a 40KW grid-tied PV system that uses PV modules wired in parallel as per the module manufacturer -- so it's a high amperage, low voltage system on the DC side. 2 branches of about 3KW of parallel wired modules each come together onto a DC bus. The DC branch conductors are sized as 2AWG. The inverter system provided by the manufacturer consists of a number of UL1741 single phase microinverters that all are powered off of the low voltage DC bus. So there's a bunch of microinverters in parallel, combined output is single phase power. Those microinverters have a ground lug labeled GEC. You know where this is going... Assuming we are following NEC 690.47(C)(3), we'll be treating this ground as GEC and following all the GEC rules. My understanding is that because the DC conductors within the array are 2AWG (NEC 250.166(B), we will need to connect all 12 branches and 6 DC buses with continuous 2AWG and bring it all the way back 300' to where the AC GEC bond is located. We're getting a lot of pushback from the electrical sub and even some disagreement from the module manufacturer on this--no one's ever seen a grounding conductor of this size being required for this application. Please don't get too bogged down
Re: [RE-wrenches] Off Grid LP Gen advice
Hi all FYI. But if you live in ca, they don't sell them here according to the website. Jay Peltz power On Sep 15, 2013, at 9:19 AM, Dave Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.com wrote: Ecogen it is. Thanks everybody. Dave Plaumbo From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of John Blittersdorf Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 7:11 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off Grid LP Gen advice Dave, I have sold 8 Eco-Gens so far and first impressions are great. I wasn't aware of the govt funded research but it makes sense. I have one installed on top of Herrick Mtn doing an average of 4 hours a day backing up a transmitter site. This winter will be the test. So far we have almost 500 hours on it (first oil change coming up) and no problems. This is a remote site with only snowmobile access in winter. The gen is doing great on fuel economy. About .7 gph at 2300 watt load. John Blittersdorf I S Tn Sent from my iPhone On Sep 14, 2013, at 8:56 PM, Gary Willett g...@icarussolarservices.com wrote: Ditto Chris's comment. The EcoGen was designed by Generac with research funded by the Propane Council from the ground-up as an off-grid propane-only generator used to charge batteries. Regards, Gary On 9/14/13 1:44 PM, Chris Mason wrote: Generac Ecogen is your best choice. It was specifically designed for the long runs associated with charing batteries for off-grid work. On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Dave Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.com wrote: Wrenchsters, Looking for a good quality, long lasting, LP gas genset for my off grid rental house. 6 to 8kW. Full power at 120Vac would be nice. In the past some have recommended a Coleman off grid model as I remember. I’m also wondering how the smaller Kohlers, and the like, have been holding up for off grid use over the past few years. This for northern Vermont where even with C/8 PV to battery charge rate we need to run the generator about 250 hours per year as the cloud cover is dense for weeks at a time. Thanks, Dave Palumbo ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Chris Mason President, Comet Systems Ltd www.cometenergysystems.com Cell: 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Advice Needed: L16 Accident! Damage Questions
Hi Jeff, All of the advice is just that advice. There is no way to know if there has been damage, regardless of what has happened in other situations. There are no guarantees you can give your customer I'm not advocating not using them, only that I would only use them with caution and careful observation for the first days/weeks to see if any problems appear. Jay peltz power On Sep 13, 2013, at 8:45 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: Thanks folks - it's apparent from the feedback that my post was not presented in a clear way. I wasn't asking about how to proceed with the customer liability wise. There is zero issue there. . We are best of friends and they know its all their fault. I was merely asking on a technical level what to advise them in terms of what to expect from batteries that have had a fall in terms if shock to the plates. Is the Trojan rep listening? How resistant are RE-Bs to a fall on their side assuming acid levels are good? And Am I right to assume that a more violent fall capable of cracking posts is likely to have caused damage deeper? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 13, 2013, at 11:13 AM, Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com wrote: Jeff, I'd offer to order replacement cells for the customer, for as many of the 16 as the customer wishes to replace - let them decide. As you have already made your margin on the sale, you could offer the replacements at a substantial discount just to cover your time and expenses. I'd decline offering repairs or even more than cursory advice that might come back to bite you years from now when one or more cells fail prematurely. Re loss of acid: of course the voltage is holding fine - the amount of electrolyte in the cell doesn't affect voltage. But you are guessing at the amount of H2SO4 to add. A bad estimate could also come back to haunt you down the road. Allan ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sundanzer questions
Hi Allan I've had mine for 4-5 years now, no issues 12 cuft, freezer, running on DC Jay Peltz power On Sep 11, 2013, at 12:27 PM, Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com wrote: Wrenches. We have sold four Sundanzer chest refrigerators or freezers over the last ten years. All have worked without a hitch. Today I got a call from a customer asking about DC refrigerators; when I mentioned Sundanzer, she stopped me. She said the reviews on Amazon convinced her not to buy one. I checked the reviews; of nine (among all four chest models), I read five 5-star, one 4-star, one 3-star, and two 1-star. The 1- and 3-star reviews were about both failure of the units and lack of support from the manufacturer. So I'm curious: who has sold many of these? How have they performed? And what has been your experience with dealer support? Thanks, Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc., a Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Who has the best overall solar racking solution?
Sub question/ Best ballasted flat roof rack? Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Sep 10, 2013, at 1:04 PM, James Rudolph jamesrudolp...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings Fellow Wrenchies, With all the racking options out there today, are there any stand outs in terms of quality and installation time. We are in the process of evaluating our racking system and with all the options its a little mind boggeling. Mahalo in advance! James B Rudolph Heleakala Solar Director of Construction NABCEP Certified PV Installer Licensed ES Electrician ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Search mode
HI Jesse, Can you tell us which model inverter? jay peltz power On Sep 8, 2013, at 3:38 PM, Jesse Dahl wrote: Hello, A friend of mine in the woods just put in a new xantrax inverter and is having a search mode problem. They can't get 25W search mode to work and are stuck with using the 50W setting. So they've had to put a few incandescents in to make this setting work. His calls to tech support have been less then helpful. Advice I can pass on? Thanks as always! Jesse ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PSX-240 wiring question
Hi Allan I have had to address this issue before. My two choices are either a mechanical disconnect or a relay ahead of the Tformer. Whether its a cool custom interlock,simple switch or relay, you get the fun call on that one. And yes if there was room for an addition 60 amp breaker in the box it would really help. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Sep 7, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com wrote: Wrenches, Here's a small issue on which I need help. It concerns the best functional way to wire up an Outback PSX-240 balancing autotransformer for a specific purpose. I have somehow succeeded in transferring the wiring diagram on page 6 of Outback's PSX-240 installation manual into this message. This is for a step-down/generator balancing function. The situation: 8kW 240V AC generator serving an older system with a single Trace SW4024. The 240V from the generator enters the PSX240 as wired according to the diagram. The primary role of the generator is to provide occasional backup charging to the batteries through the inverter. The specific issue is that the client also wants 240V AC from the generator to be available to a single shop receptacle to run a stationary woodworking tool. The generator is not large enough to both run the tool and charge at full (33A @120V AC / 120A @24V DC) AC2 amps in setting, and we don't want to reduce the charge rate, as it's currently ideal for the new HUP industrial flooded batteries. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext inverter
HI Allan, I think you have me here. I was under the impression that this is just a new name for what is the old XW series? jay peltz power On Aug 28, 2013, at 5:24 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, When a new product comes out I usually wait for a few reviews on this list before using it. That would have been the case with the new Schneider Conext series, the low-cost 120/240 SW off grid unit. But I was talking with Tom Carpenter of Midnite about other issues and he happened to speak quite highly of the unit he was bench testing. So I'm asking: has anyone worked with this unit yet? What's the feedback, please? Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc., a Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] cool fan
Hi Todd Is the relay cycling or could it be the fan is having issues? Did you try manual on? On a side note. For the turbo units in warm areas, I replace the fan with a high output AC fan controlled with relay, really helps. Jay Peltz power. On Aug 26, 2013, at 10:21 PM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote: wrenches... im having a vexing problem with an outback system and cannot seem to get any help from outback... so, im posting this here in hopes some wrench knows more about the 'cool fan' option than i do. this is a sealed gtfx2524 system... so it has the 'turbo fan' connected to the aux output which is set to coolfan. i called tech support and the guy i spoke with was unable to find much about this so is sending out a control board as kind of a blind, i hope this fixes it solution... but, before i unwire and dismount the inverter for the second time (the internal fan died after 6 months of use), i thought id write and ask someone else. here are the symptoms and parameters: the grid tied unit is in a greenhouse so it gets hot in there (a couple of days ago it was 95 f). at max, the unit processes around 1100 watts/minus local loads so sells around 900 to 1000 watts. the lowest (hottest) temp counts i have seen are: air (xmfr) 88 fets 132 caps 136 during this heat event i saw the unit throttling back on selling, as the dc voltage went from 26 (sell voltage default set point) to 28, where the charge controller started throttling back... so i know it was running hot. during this the coolfan would cycle... on for a second or 2 and then off again for an equal time. when i set the aux control from 'auto' to 'on' the fan comes on and stays on... well, mostly. it still cycles on and off, but less frequently. does anyone have access to the temp counts for: when the coolfan is supposed to turn on and off when the unit starts throttling back on selling due to overheating when the unit will totally shut down from overheating another strange thing is when i set the aux control from coolfan to vent or diversion, and program the parameters so the fan would be on (ie: vent fan / diversion on above 24 volts with the battery voltage at 26+) the fan does not come on. guesses? will replacing the control board change anything? any help is appreciated. thanks, todd Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] cool fan
Hi Todd, As the fan won't even stay on, when ON, then the board being bad is a good choice As to the AC fan, I wasn't suggesting an external thermostat, but just a larger cfm fan Jay On Aug 27, 2013, at 9:11 AM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote: thanks for the ideas jay! the fan comes on and off with the aux output led on the board where the in/out ac wires connect, so i do not believe this is an issue with the fan. as i mentioned below: when i set the aux control from 'auto' to 'on' the fan comes on and stays on... well, mostly. it still cycles on and off, but less frequently. i guess i could mount an external thermostat on the fx case and have this control a relay to operate the 'cool fan', but id really like to figure out why the unit is not performing as it is supposed to... and why outback's tech support seems so deficient these days. shouldnt someone have access to the code and be able to give me the temp counts for cool fan on/off and when the unit throttles back on selling from over-temp conditions? todd On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 8:47am, jay peltz j...@asis.com said: Hi Todd Is the relay cycling or could it be the fan is having issues? Did you try manual on? On a side note. For the turbo units in warm areas, I replace the fan with a high output AC fan controlled with relay, really helps. Jay Peltz power. On Aug 26, 2013, at 10:21 PM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote: wrenches... im having a vexing problem with an outback system and cannot seem to get any help from outback... so, im posting this here in hopes some wrench knows more about the 'cool fan' option than i do. this is a sealed gtfx2524 system... so it has the 'turbo fan' connected to the aux output which is set to coolfan. i called tech support and the guy i spoke with was unable to find much about this so is sending out a control board as kind of a blind, i hope this fixes it solution... but, before i unwire and dismount the inverter for the second time (the internal fan died after 6 months of use), i thought id write and ask someone else. here are the symptoms and parameters: the grid tied unit is in a greenhouse so it gets hot in there (a couple of days ago it was 95 f). at max, the unit processes around 1100 watts/minus local loads so sells around 900 to 1000 watts. the lowest (hottest) temp counts i have seen are: air (xmfr) 88 fets 132 caps 136 during this heat event i saw the unit throttling back on selling, as the dc voltage went from 26 (sell voltage default set point) to 28, where the charge controller started throttling back... so i know it was running hot. during this the coolfan would cycle... on for a second or 2 and then off again for an equal time. when i set the aux control from 'auto' to 'on' the fan comes on and stays on... well, mostly. it still cycles on and off, but less frequently. does anyone have access to the temp counts for: when the coolfan is supposed to turn on and off when the unit starts throttling back on selling due to overheating when the unit will totally shut down from overheating another strange thing is when i set the aux control from coolfan to vent or diversion, and program the parameters so the fan would be on (ie: vent fan / diversion on above 24 volts with the battery voltage at 26+) the fan does not come on. guesses? will replacing the control board change anything? any help is appreciated. thanks, todd Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW system stability
Hi Kevin Given how that system works, could you install the CC's on their own? Ie use a seperate scp to keep track of data? Jay Peltz power. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 22, 2013, at 10:18 AM, Kevin Pegg kp...@energyalternatives.ca wrote: Hello Wrenches, Curious how others are finding the stability of larger Xantrex XW deployments? We have an installation with 12 Xanbus devices (4 x XW6048, 6 x XW-MPPT60, 1 x AGS, 1 x SCP) and it keeps crashing. Power cycle the whole system and it's fine for a few weeks and then it crashes again. I find with smaller deployments under 5 Xanbus devices the stability is much better, but still get the occasional customer call with a system gone haywire and a power cycle fixes. This particular installation is in the high arctic darn near the north pole and sending a tech up there next week to resolve. Needless to say, it's an expensive ordeal to get up there. Kevin ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4 center conductors
PV-cables.com Jay On Aug 19, 2013, at 4:10 PM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote: Hi all, Does anyone have a source of just the center conductor (small metal inserts) for MC4 connectorsI seem to have accumulated a lot of female - plastic without the associated crimpable center conductor Daryl ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback efficiency?
Hi Ray, #1, I don't see any improvement. But then I find it rarely used anymore with many small loads ( cell phone chargers etc), coupled with cyclic loads and 4 watt LED's etc. Its got to be a really small system to have this be active. I find that if people really want to use this that I'll wire up the remote on/off and they can use that from their bed at night. #2. It depends on how they measure the efficiency. Since the no load is around 20 watts, if you have a 20 watt load, that makes a efficiency of like 50%, not including the inverter loss's of 6-10% which isn't really helpful in any sort of calculations. I usually use 90% ish ( I think they publish 94% as peak eff.) as my INV design efficiency ( sometimes it'll be lower, sometimes higher), and then add in the idle watts x 24 hrs day. Hope this helps, jay peltz power On Aug 18, 2013, at 3:01 PM, Ray Walters wrote: I have a couple of Outback questions. On my load analysis sheet, I include 20 w x 24hr/ day for the inverter's no load draw. In the past I had very poor luck with the search mode on most inverters, and found that when I adjusted it so that it came on with efficient lighting, that the no load draw was still 15 watts. I've just taken to disabling search mode, and add more modules. So question 1: has the search mode been improved in the past 5 years? question 2: Is the no load draw most of the efficiency losses, so could I set inverter total efficiency to say 98%, while keeping the 480 wh/ day inverter draw? I don't want to overstate or understate the inverter losses. Thanks, -- R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Assist
Hi William Thx helps a lot. I can only say how I do it. I'll give the client some options, including the change of appliances and usually the price difference makes the sale one way or the other. Funny reminds me of the old days, only with much smaller loads/$. Good luck Jay Sent from my iPhone On Aug 16, 2013, at 12:49 PM, William Miller will...@millersolar.com wrote: Jay: There are four systems in question. In three the loads are year round and one is summer only AC loads. The year round loaded systems have loads day and night. One is a highway maintenence station with at least 4 residences. One is a family compound with two homes with electric ranges, water heaters, AC units (I know its stupid, lord knows I've tried to convince them to change appliances.) One is an animal rescue operation with heater loads. One is a large home with 5 very small, very new, very sophisticated and frugal AC units I know it is silly to move these loads off-grid, but people do it and they will hire someone to work on the systems. It may as well be me, doing the best I can to use the resources as wisely as possible. William PS: It always happens like this: I get a call from a client with problems. Well, of course their expensive battery bank died and it died because of wasteful appliances. The prescription is a new, expensive battery bank and, at the same time, new, expensive, efficient appliances. They complain can't afford both and they have to have the batteries, so that is what they get. Repeat every two years. Sad Wm From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jay Peltz Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 12:22 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Assist Hi William I feel it's impossible to discuss without more specifics. For example if the extreme loads are only every ( just run the genny) so often vs seasonal ( maybe AC coupling makes more sense vs cycling a extremely expensive battery 4 x day), vs year round vs what is do able etc I would be curious to know what some of the parameters are, as I'm sure others as well Jay Peltz power. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 16, 2013, at 10:53 AM, William Miller will...@millersolar.com wrote: Friends: We have been receiving a flurry of requests for design of off-grid systems where the loads are enormous, relative to normal off-grid requirements. It is obvious that the size of PV and battery arrays to power these loads is beyond what is practical. We have dubbed these systems Generator/battery with PV assist, or PV assist for short. These systems will cycle batteries multiple times per day. It is my understanding that the extra battery cycels will shorten battery life. Since generator run is expected, we are willing to increase generator run time in order to prolong battery life. The parameters I suggest are an aggressive load start and a very high battery start parameter. This will prevent deep discharge of the battery bank. I know shallow discharge is not the norm, but I don't believe shallow cycling isa problem as long is it as at the top of the voltage window, i.e. the batteries achieve absorption at least once per day. We know a load start ciuld result in an abbreviated run time, curtailing absorption period, but we are assuming there will be a battery votage start at least once per day allowing full absorption. Has anyone else considered these issues, and what conclusions did you make I am looking forward to a spirited discussion as usual. I throuroughlyenjoy and beneift from them, even thought the advice is usually conflilcting. Thanks in advance. William Miller ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hawker versusu MK
I agree with Daryl and Tump
And would add Trojan IND as an option to the Rolls and made in SoCal
Also most of the industrial battery folks make 2v cells.
Jay
Peltz power.
On Aug 13, 2013, at 4:55 AM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote:
I second Tump's experience!
Daryl DeJoy
NABCEP Certified PV installer
Penobscot Solar Design
I install large battery banks ALL the time. We DO NOT use any battery that
is incased in a metal enclosure.
REAL pain to move, cells DO go bad when they do its a real pain to bring
the engine hoist to remove them. Hard to keep the cases from leaking
rusting.
We DO use the Surrette 2 volt cells in the dual container exclusively.
These are rated as a containment vessel, much easier to move. In the
event when a cell does go bad, use a jumper to bypass the bad cell,
operate w/ a lower LBCO setting leave the CC settings the same, while
waiting for replacement.
1700 AH -2400 AH.
By the time you have the tractor/back hoe on site, my 2 volt cells are up
n running! E mail me off list and I can give you a few tricks to move
them.
On Aug 13, 2013, at 3:28 AM, William Miller wrote:
Friends:
We are shopping for industrial, flooded, lead acid batteries. We are
considering 12 volt packages in the 1800 AH range. Under consideration
are:
Hawker 12-25W-23S at 1705 AH or MK 106M1033STB at 1896 AH.
Have any of you had experience with either, or recommend another option?
As always, I am extremely grateful to all of you for the limitless
wisdom offered.
Sinceerly,
William Miller
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t...@swnl.net www.SWNL.net
Solarwinds Northernlights
Serving Mid Coast Maine Northern California
207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401
Blair TUMP May
MAINE'S CHARTER
NABCEPCertified PV Installer
MAINE'S CHARTER
Trace Xantrex Certified Dealer / Installer
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hawker versusu MK
Hi Dick, Best trick I ever learned for these metal cased is to build a wheeled base with steel wheels. Yea, still have to get them onto the base, but then its easy. Also when I use metal cased batteries I like to have them with removable series interconnects not the welded type. Interesting to hear the comments on the Rolls shipping. I've seen that problem myself, but didn't realize that it was so common. jay peltz power On Aug 13, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Richard L Ratico wrote: I've got two Hawker installs out here, a 48 Volt and a 24 Volt system. Both are going on 6 years or so. Clients are happy, I'm happy. It does resemble work to move and place them. We typically use Egyptian techniques when heavy equipment isn't available or appropriate. Inclined plane, big pry bars, rollers, come along, block tackle. It's kind of fun to try to outsmart the mass. It's interesting to experience gravity's effect on lead, atomic weight 207.2. Glad it's not Uranium at 238. Thankfully, we've not had to replace a cell. That always sucks, regardless. If I remember correctly, the steel cans had welded seams. The cans make the use of insulated tools even more important. Should you ground the cans??? Speaking of replacing cells. I looked at a 5 year old bank of 8 Rolls L16s this weekend. Two of the batteries had a dead cell. This in a bank that had a single battery replaced at 6 months or less because of a bad cell. I've also got a 7 year old bank of 12 Surrette / Rolls 2 Volt units installed. The only problem so far was on day one when they arrived. They were shipped on a single, narrow, beat up pallet. Some had obviously tipped over in transit and had lost a considerable amount of electrolyte. Northern Arizona Wind Sun user's forum has posts reporting similar experiences. I dread receiving expensive pallets of batteries and modules from shippers. High percentage of damage. Steel cans instead of plastic wrap is worth thinking about. Hope this doesn't just muddy the water. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] UPS -1500w
hi Jeremy, Sorry to pull teeth here, but which inverter is it? jay peltz power On Aug 11, 2013, at 11:08 AM, All Solar wrote: It's a sine wave unit and the manufacturer has been very involved in this case. The owner is going to try a UPS that he already owns and will bring it out the next time he travels back. Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! On Aug 9, 2013, at 6:16 PM, RE Ellison reelli...@gmail.com wrote: I assume the easy choice of changing the coffee pot isn't going to happen? What inverter does it happen to be, Although sometimes weird stuff like this happens with inverters of all makes. Back from my days of being an APC dealer most UPS's are modified square wave Bob ellison Bob Ellison On Aug 9, 2013, at 4:00 PM, All Solar allso...@scswifi.net wrote: Looking for recommendations for a reliable UPS for a problem load that will not run off the homes inverter The load is 1200 w max 120v Thanks in advance Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] UPS -1500w
What's the load, the inverter? Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Aug 9, 2013, at 1:00 PM, All Solar allso...@scswifi.net wrote: Looking for recommendations for a reliable UPS for a problem load that will not run off the homes inverter The load is 1200 w max 120v Thanks in advance Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Relay for 48v Vent Fan
HI Rich, Grainger will have 12v coil relays that will switch 48v. jay peltz power On Aug 8, 2013, at 4:49 PM, Rich Nicol wrote: Hello Wrenches, Does anyone have any advice about what to use for a relay to power a 48 volt Zephyr battery vent fan using the 12 volt auxiliary output from the Midnite Classic Charge controllers. The fan only draws 6 watts but my problem is the 48 volt side of the equation. A supplier has recommend a double pole/double throw relay rated for up to 30 amps at 24 volts wired in series. I’m curious if anyone knows of a relay rated for 48volts (actually higher voltage since the fan is signaled to come on when the battery reaches gassing voltage) that would work in this application or if there is widespread agreement that the 24volt rated relay would work fine since we are requiring only minimal current and spreading between two contacts. As always, your input is greatly valued! Thanks, Rich ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SW AGS
HI Eric, Sounds like the stop absorb might have been enabled. This will stop the AGS when the battery volts reach absorb setpoint. But has no impact if starting the generator manually. jay peltz power Sounds like you talked to the right guy, that's his info...except that he has, according to what he told me, an SW not an XW. I'm assuming he's maybe at 50% capacity on his original 1260Ah bank based on everything he told me this morning. He did say that his bank will last him through the night and that he has some pretty hefty air conditioning loads. He also said he had equalized in the past but not in the last 18 months. I'm just not convinced that his batteries are shot. But all this battery talk may be beside the point if he's not experiencing the same on/off cycling problem when he manually starts the genny, right? That is, assuming the disco settings remain in effect regardless of start mechanism. Thanks for indulging me tocayo. Eric SunHarvest 001.530.798.3738 (Cell) - Original Message - From: eric.bent...@schneider-electric.com To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SW AGS Hi Eric, Sounded like bad batteries to me also (I think he called in this AM). He has (2) XW6048 units that are capable of 200ADC between them, and he also has 1260Ah of flooded capacity. DC Start V is set for 46.5V, so if we assume he was close to 50% discharge (depending on load), it should take almost 2 hours to reach the bulk voltage (80% replaced). His batteries were ramping up to bulk in just a couple of minutes, meaning the batteries were not absorbing the charge. I have heard varying opinions on the symptoms of sulfation, but it does sound like a battery issue (5 yrs old). He was advised to equalize to try and recover them (he has never done this), or replace them. Rgds, _ Eric Bentsen | Schneider Electric | Solar Business | UNITED STATES | Technical Support Representative Phone: +(650) 351-8237 ext. 001# | Email: eric.bent...@schneider-electric.com | Site: www.schneider-electric.com/solar | Address: 250 South Vasco Rd., Livermore, CA 94551 Mail Attachment.jpeg *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail From: SunHarvest e...@harvesthesun.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: 08/07/2013 12:39 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] SW AGS Sent by: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org I read through the archives on the XW AGS thread but have a query on behalf of a customer with an SW AGS issue. I'm heading out to the remote site tomorrow and would like, if possible, to show up knowing what I might be up against. The customer recently replaced his AGS for his two SW 6048s and then upgraded his firmware a week later. He reported that his problem with the AGS began after firmware upgrade. Here's the particular issue: AGS will try to start the 15.8kW Multi-Quip genny due to low battery voltage (event 306 DCV start). After about 5 minutes the AGS will stop the genny due to battery absorption level reached (event 313 ABS stop). The AGS will go through this event 306/313 cycle on and off until the homeowner shuts down the AGS. To me this sounds like bad batteries. But, the homeowner says this cycling does not occur when he manually starts the generator. This doesn't sound like a complicated problem but so far I'm unfamiliar with the SW AGS. So, I would greatly appreciate any insight you guys can offer me. Thanks!! Eric SunHarvest 001.530.798.3738 (Cell) __ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. _ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE
Re: [RE-wrenches] retail price lists
Hi Tom and all Thanks for the price list. I'm sorry, I guess my question should have been more clear. Why is it that some of our manufacturing companies don't publish retail price lists, but actually have them? There must be a reason? ( however dopey) Thanks Jay On Aug 6, 2013, at 7:30 AM, Tom Duffy t...@thesolar.biz wrote: Jay I have sent you an OutBack retail price list in a separate e-mail let me know if you don't get it. Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer Toll Free 888-895-8179 t...@thesolar.biz Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810 Grid tie sales 888-895-7847 Off Grid sales 888-895-4058 Other Product Sales 888-895-9612 Central America Sales (Panama) 507-6-126-1253 Shipping and Receiving 888-895-6497 Tech Support 888-895-8179 SKYPE: thesolarbiz ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] RS 232/tristar
Hi All, Any special issues with using a RS232 to USB for programing the Tristar? IE will any USB/RS232 adapter do? thanks in advance, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] retail price lists
Anybody know the logic on why some manufacturers don't publish a retail price list? For example, Outback? thx, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?
Hi Corey, Did you mount the SS relays to a good heat sink with heat compound? They are quite sensitive to heat damage and also like a lot things optimistically rated. I use a 2X oversize ratio for SS relays if they are used very much at all or for longer periods of time. And I think you are correct to install a back up to the frequency shift that may or may not work. jay peltz power On Jul 31, 2013, at 11:24 AM, Corey Shalanski wrote: Mac, We have installed about ten AC coupled Magnum systems over the past year. Overcharge protection is accomplished by frequency shift, but Magnum recommends an auxiliary form of battery management. The cheapest way to do this is to program the relay driver on the Magnum advanced remote control (ARC) to open/close a solid state relay at specified battery voltage setpoints - similar to what Kelly mentioned. Unfortunately the cheapest way sometimes comes back to haunt us in the form of unanticipated extra costs. We had two customer callbacks indicating their inverter had mysteriously shut down - site visit revealed a fried relay in each case.. so I would recommend at least investing in a good quality relay if you choose this route. One other thing we have learned is that not all grid interactive inverters are compatible with the Magnum inverters. Specifically Power One Aurora string inverters cannot seem to synchronize in off-grid mode - we have had to switch out Auroras on two projects because of this. We have had no such synchronization issues with SMA inverters so far. -- Corey Shalanski Joule Energy New Orleans, LA ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?
Hi ray Magnum does have a way to do it Theirs is a bit different, but all the data is on their web site Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: The Outback rep got me some good info, and I'm liking the Radian with the Remote controlled breaker to control the GT inverter when the grid is out. I've heard of quite a few problems related to the Sunny Island frequency controlled system. My question is can off grid inverters like the Magnum be AC coupled? I'm trying to get the price down, and still handle the 240 vac input from the GT inverter. I penciled out the Radian and I was topping $10k before installation. This customer is hoping for a solution under $10k, and closer to $5k if possible. I think an elegant lower cost solution for Grid tie with battery back up is in order. A Radian Lite? For backup, it could even be mod sine, as it wouldn't be much worse than generator power or the average UPS setup. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Tri-Star MPPT
Hi Eric, While agree with most all your assessments, Can you please elaborate on the sulfation causes the voltage not to climb? This is quite counter to what I have seen and what the battery people say? Thanks Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPad On Jul 23, 2013, at 2:48 PM, eric.bent...@schneider-electric.com wrote: Hi William, If the SG was 1.26, of course the battery voltage would increase quickly to 30V (which is high for warm weather, BTW). It has been my experience that sulfation causes the voltage NOT to climb. Especially when you have a very large bank, and a relatively small amount of solar. Sometimes it is necessary to reduce the bank size into smaller sets to equalize them and recover their performance. This method of reducing bank size is also effective to compare performance and weed out a potentially bad battery. Systems that have a lot of capacity, with a relatively small amount of charge current usually creates problems, because the load demand exceeds solar production. This results in batteries that operate with partial SOC, which is when sulfation is most prevalent. With (8) L16s, you have approx 800Ahrs of capacity (24V bank). It would take significantly more than 8A of charge current to properly care for a bank that size. Rgds, _ Eric Bentsen | Schneider Electric | Solar Business | UNITED STATES | Technical Support Representative Phone: +(650) 351-8237 ext. 001# | Email: eric.bent...@schneider-electric.com | Site: www.schneider-electric.com/solar | Address: 250 South Vasco Rd., Livermore, CA 94551 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16s
Hi Tom Where did you get the .42 from? Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jul 22, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Tom Duffy t...@thesolar.biz wrote: Drake Keep the absorb rate recommended for the CC. The trimetric strays over time and will become accurate again when you overcharge (equalize) The math: Amp hours of battery @ 20 hour rate divided by max charge available in amps, from whatever you using to charge (solar or inverter/charger) Times .42 = absorb time in hours i.e. your system 980 watts, 980 divided by 28.8 (average volts) = 34 amps max charge 370 AH divided by 34 = 10.88 X .42 = 4.57 round up to 4.6 hours absorb time for the CC Your inverter VFX3524 max charge 85 amps... 370 divided by 85 = 4.35 X .42 = 1.82 absorb time for the inverter/charger when running generator Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer Toll Free 888-895-8179 t...@thesolar.biz Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810 Grid tie sales 888-895-7847 Off Grid sales 888-895-4058 Other Product Sales 888-895-9612 Central America Sales (Panama) 507-6-126-1253 Shipping and Receiving 888-895-6497 Tech Support 888-895-8179 SKYPE: thesolarbiz -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 10:04 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16s Hi Larry, I will bump up the absorb voltage to 29.6 V. How long do you think the bank should stay in absorb at that rate? The bank now seems healthy, with the bad battery replaced. It does accept charge, without going high prematurely. The max charge rate from the array is around C/10. The system can also be fast charged from a Honda 6500 inverter generator through the Outback 3524 VFX. We have a Trimetric meter on the system. The discrepancy between the percent charge and the voltage is what demonstrated that we had a problem. Thanks, Drake At 09:30 PM 7/19/2013, you wrote: Hi Drake, It always concerns me when I hear that a battery bank reaches absorb setting very quickly. It typically means one of two things: very few AH were removed from the bank; the battery bank has sulfated cells due to chronic undercharging. Far too often I find the latter to be true. Healthy batteries will accept current and hold the charge voltage down with a fairly linear, slow climb to absorption voltage. Sulfated batteries do not accept current well which allows voltage to climb rapidly as the battery presents little load on the charging system. I'm not sure how this plays into your original post about a bad cell but it seemed worth mentioning. My opinion is to aggressively charge, by using higher voltage, large flooded batteries. This is especially true when the PV system is moderate or undersized. 29.6 volts is what Trojan recommends. You can go as high as 32 volts on the L-16's but make sure the temperature compensation is installed properly and working. You will use more water. One last comment, I highly recommend that ALL off grid systems have a battery capacity monitor installed. It's kind of like flying an airplane without a fuel gauge...it might not end in disaster. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Jul 18, 2013, at 1:11 PM, Drake drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote: Tom, The batteries usually reach absorb voltage shortly after the sun hits the array. The reason the bank wasn't working correctly is that one cell was dead in one of the batteries. I could increase the absorb time to 4.6 hours and the voltage to 29.6, especially since the bank has a new battery. That is longer and higher than I'd previously heard recommended. What would be the effect on water consumption? How did you calculate the absorb time? Thanks, Drake ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http
Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16s
Hi Todd Where can we find info and pricing? Thanks Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Tape on modules for wire management
Hi all, You code wonks can help out here I had a friend ask about an install he saw that used electrical tape to attach the PV wires to the modules, yep actually taping them to the back of the module. I'm having trouble figuring out if this actually breaks any codes and if so which ones Then there is the whole ul,listing of the modules and is that approved? Thanks, Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Square D QO breaker DC question
Hi Dan I'm guessing the wire can handle the 100 amp if they are already running 60a. I've had QO breakers go bad, even ones not tortured like that one. The derate is interesting as it has to do with less atoms of air per volume. Less air, equals less cooling Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPad On Jul 8, 2013, at 10:07 PM, Dan Fink danbo...@gmail.com wrote: Esteemed Wrenches; A weird troubleshooting call today for my business partner DanB. I wish I had been along if only for shock and awe and lessons learned. A nicely installed vintage 12VDC PV system that someone else designed and installed over 10 years ago, we replaced a dead/frozen battery bank a month ago. DanB went back today because customer reported low battery bank voltage. He found the PV input breaker tripped, a Square D QO 2-pole 60 amp. About 600 watts of PV 12vdc nominal on the roof. Reset the breaker, and a few minutes later it was too hot to touch. So our working theory -- the 60a QO on *DC* has a 1.2x ampacity derate, which puts 600w PV right at 60 amps instead of 50. There's also a bit of a high altitude derate, which I don't understand at all. And during the battery disaster last year bank voltage was certainly 11vdc or less, and was a bit over 11vdc on DanB's arrival since the PV had not been charging. That puts us at possibly 65.5 amps. The breaker was maybe just doing its job correctly, though the heat was disturbing I am told.Or maybe it got damaged during the battery disaster..both + and - were connected thru the 2 poles. In any case, our question --- due to my fuzzy memory and poor shopping skills, we have a 100 amp QO 2 pole breaker in stock that needs a home, and it'll plug right in. I have a nice tech bulletin from Schneider Electric about DC ratings of their breakers that doesn't show that a 100a QO 2 pole even exists, and a Schneider FAQ that says it'll work fine: http://www.schneider-electric.us/sites/us/en/support/faq/faq_main.page?page=contentcountry=USlang=enid=FA125383redirect=true Any advice on this? We'd sure love to just drop by and pop in the new 100a amp QO breaker instead of installing a whole new DC rated Midnite box. But we don't want to leave a fire hazard either. With 15 years service on our local volunteer fire department, It would be rather embarrassing if a fix we made to this old off-grid system caused a fire. ;-) We are aware of the 5k AIR issue with these breakers, but the battery bank is small enough I don't think it's quite up there, and information on AIR interruption from battery manufacturers is hard to find..and of course it's a weird curve. Thanks in advance; Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Generac Ecogen (was RE: generator suggestions)
Hi Kirk One trick I learned from my generator guy is to hook up the remote start to the manual on position This bypass's the auto position and the extra load on the battery Best I can tell only difference on the Koehler anyway is how fast it starts. On auto right now On manual a few seconds delay. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPad On Jul 6, 2013, at 10:46 AM, Kirk Herander k...@vtsolar.com wrote: Alan and others, I have an off-grid customer looking at the Ecogen. Now that 6 months have passed since your comments, can you tell us more of the pros and cons of this unit? I read somewhere the phantom load of the controller (and charger?) is 20 to 50 watts total. Is it just the controller which needs to stay awake? Is there a separate charger for the battery, meaning no alternator / rectifier direct from the engine? Regardless, it seems dumb to me that a generator designed for off-grid would mandate a phantom load to operate. For that reason, it seems no more appealing than the Kohler R series. Is there an on-board hour-meter? Thanks. The brochure does not address these questions. Kirk Herander VT Solar, LLC dba Vermont Solar Engineering NABCEPTM Certified Inaugural Certificant NYSERDA-eligible Installer VT RE Incentive Program Partner 802.863.1202 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:21 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] generator suggestions Ray, Everything has changed. The Kohler 6.5RMY and the Onan 6.5 Commercial were wonderful units, but also both flathead twins, eventually discontinued for efficiency and emissions reasons, as I came to understand. Also, the American residential market was (and remains) almost exclusively about home standby, not off grid, and the major manufacturers went in that direction. Home standby is a competitive market, and generators aren't expected to run for many hours over their useful life, so internals can be cheapened and features to make them more like a home appliance are added. Many of us have customer horror stories about home standby units used off grid. I have written favorably about the Generac EcoGen here and in Home Power, as it's pretty much currently the only under-10K unit designed for off grid use. I have now had two at my home - we had a fire in May that took out an outbuilding and the gennie, and I replaced it with the same model, because it had performed well and there was nothing else to compete with it. Always starts, minimal maintenance, exceeds its rated output on occasion, doesn't require a separate enclosure, and is sealed against mice. Oh, and very quiet. So far the only disadvantage is the need for either an AC feed for the 8W phantom load to keep the controller awake, but a PV module and small controller on the starting battery will handle that one of these days. It's not just one of their standard units with different bells and whistles, but has hardened valves, lower (2,500) rpm, longer maintenance intervals, and other reliability features. I know all about Generac's otherwise-poor reputation, and am willing to stick my neck out about this model, as I think it's the best we currently have in this size range. My understanding is that the Propane Reliability Council (or some similar organizational name) was involved with sponsoring development of an LP gennie tough enough to handle off grid demands. They first approached Kohler, who turned them down, and then worked with Generac (all this is hearsay; don't quote me on it). Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 1/30/2013 10:41 AM, Ray Walters wrote: Hi Randy and all; I definitely like the water cooled 1800 rpm machines too, but for regular off grid homes, they just are way out of the budget. We jumped on the inverter generator band wagon for a while, but had the same load issues Allan described. (Microwave kicks the breaker, and you're running the genny for hours for nothing) Many customers have turned to the contractor portables with equally disappointing results, but often they already have the genny, and we just provide an inlet box and cord. The Generac looks like a good idea, I wish Onan or Kohler would build one. Kohler used to make a 6.5 Kw that fit the one inverter household fairly well. Ray Walters THeOn 1/30/2013 8:55 AM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: Randy, I concur, the Cummins/Onan generators are built well and are reliable. They provide a 1 year, 1000 hour
Re: [RE-wrenches] double insulated wire
HI Ray, I agree and think that at least high voltage DC should have its own color code. Labels go away, but wire colors are forever. thanks, jay peltz power On Jul 2, 2013, at 11:15 AM, Ray Walters wrote: Hi Dick; What you're suggesting is actually something I thought would work too: having totally odd colors that immediately said DC. IT really would be the best, because if you go in with a meter set to read AC, and show no voltage, then get your voltage sniffer out, and it doesn't beep, you think you're double safe, when actually you could get hit with 500 v dc. I try and mark every J-box that has DC conductors in it with the DC voltage. The life I save probably will be my own, as I'm getting more forgetful with age.. I think one of the problems is that this is actually not a NEW issue; we are reviving the 100+ year old AC vs DC battle that Edison Westinghouse, and Tesla, et al. fought before. Factories have AC and DC on site, and it just amazes me that marking polarity isn't required by code. We have to mark the bonded conductor, or the high leg in certain 3 phase systems, so identifying DC polarity seems just as important. I actually really like your purple with a white stripe idea. At one time I tried to color code for DC voltage too, (Red for 12 v, purple for 24, Orange for 48 v) and even used yellow tape for my PV inputs as they had a higher V than the battery. Now I just try to label everything copiously, and have polarity align with my meter. My biggest problem is still old 12 v house wiring on Romex (white and black) or which side of those Monkey face outlets should be + or - .. These days, I just try to switch the circuit over to AC (go Tesla!) R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Wet NiCad batteries
HI All, I'm looking for information on how you recondition wet cell NiCad batteries, Thanks in advance, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Wet NiCad batteries
HI Dan and Bob-O, I totally agree with you both. But as you guys both know, some folks really wont take no for an answer. This person has the money and talent to do this, and he really wants to, just trying to get him the correct info rather than some garbage off the WWW. thanks, jay On Jun 25, 2013, at 10:19 AM, Exeltech wrote: Jay, I second Bob-O's comment - completely. I inherited a number of pocket-plate ni-cad cells in the early 90s and went through the same exercise as Richard Perez -- including the same bad words he used (maybe more). If the cells are truly diminished in capacity, recycle them. The reconditioning effort required in an attempt to bring them back to life wasn't worth it. You may as well consider a DIY re-cap of your old tires while you're at it. Words of experience from the old guard Dan --- On Tue, 6/25/13, Bob-O Schultze bo...@electronconnection.com wrote: From: Bob-O Schultze bo...@electronconnection.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wet NiCad batteries To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Tuesday, June 25, 2013, 11:55 AM You might want to check your early Home Powers. We went thorough that dance in 1989 or so. It's ugly and the spent electrolyte is serious toxic waste. On Jun 25, 2013, at 9:32 AM, jay peltz wrote: HI All, I'm looking for information on how you recondition wet cell NiCad batteries, Thanks in advance, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NEC 690.55 - maximum operating voltage
HI All, I mean as its worded, it would also be 240vac? jay peltz power On Jun 11, 2013, at 7:30 AM, eric.bent...@schneider-electric.com wrote: Hi Bob, I would rather it be worded maximum normal operating voltage. Maximum operating voltage would be the recommended BULK voltage for the battery type being utilized. Equalization is a maintenance procedure, which is why it calls for separate listing. It must also include polarity of grounded conductor. Eric _ Eric Bentsen | Schneider Electric | Solar Business | UNITED STATES | Technical Support Representative Phone: +(650) 351-8237 ext. 001# | Email: eric.bent...@schneider-electric.com | Site: www.schneider-electric.com/solar | Address: 250 South Vasco Rd., Livermore, CA 94551 Mail Attachment.jpeg *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail From: Bob Clark bcl...@solar-wind.us To: 'RE-Wrenches' re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: 06/10/2013 08:08 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] NEC 690.55 - maximum operating voltage Sent by: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org RE_Wrenches: Can someone tell me what is being referred to in NEC 690.55 when it says “Photovoltaic power systems employing energy storage shall also be marked with the “maximum operating voltage, . . .” ? We have an off-grid system which employs energy storage [i.e.; batteries]; so I need to know what exactly is referred to when this section mentions “maximum operating voltage” so I can put it on a sign. Bob Clark SolarWind Energy Systems, LLC ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] battery watering systems
HI Tom, Thanks, I need 3 of the VB-TB5-S For Trojan L-16's. we'll work out the details. thx, jay On Jun 8, 2013, at 1:43 PM, Tom Duffy wrote: Jay We have them Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer Toll Free 888-895-8179 t...@thesolar.biz Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810 Grid tie sales 888-895-7847 Off Grid sales 888-895-4058 Other Product Sales 888-895-9612 Central America Sales (Panama) 507-6-126-1253 Shipping and Receiving 888-895-6497 Tech Support 888-895-8179 SKYPE: thesolarbiz -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 3:53 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] battery watering systems HI All, Any good places to order watering caps from Battery watering technologies? thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] battery watering systems
HI All, Any good places to order watering caps from Battery watering technologies? thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] would this work?
Hi Todd As bob-0 and Larry have said And the sqflex is a mppt unit, nothing else needed Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPad On Jun 5, 2013, at 7:30 PM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote: ok wrenches... here is a hair brained idea i came up with. i have this customer with the grundfos pump being powered, array direct by 10 astropower 75's in series... so around 170 vdc. what would happen if a hv mppt charge controller were paralleled with the panel output feeding the pump? would the cu200 charge controller mppt algorithms fight each other? thanks, todd Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Defective modules
HI Carl, I can't seem to be able to get that data off the site. Maybe someone else can. It is a main reason I bought the subscription, just to support their great testing work. jay On Jun 2, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Carl Emerson wrote: Hi Jay, Thanks for that, yes, I have seen the setup you refer to and it is very comprehensive, but I thought that your reference to the 151 modules was a lab test at STC and not an outdoor test for energy yield. Can you send the link to the outdoor test results please… Many Thanks, Carl Emerson Hi Carl, Here is the link to how Photon measures each module. http://www.photon.info/photon_lab_modul_ertragsm_en.photon?ActiveID=1289 and http://www.photon.info/photon_lab_modul_ertragsmAD_en.photon?ActiveID=4382 Can you please tell me how they are doing it wrong, and what the test would look like in doing it right? Many thanks, jay peltz power On Jun 2, 2013, at 3:27 PM, Carl Emerson wrote: Jay, The short answer is no… These are not real world tests of energy yield under ‘normal’ outdoor conditions. Photon are setting up field tests for 2013 in Germany and the middle East. Then they will have some useful data. Carl E. Hi Carl Would like to see real data. Photon publishes their module data, and thin film are no where near the top of the list. Nexpower. #14 First solar. #131 Total of 151 modules in the test. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPad On Jun 1, 2013, at 6:20 PM, Carl Emerson c...@solarking.net.nz wrote: ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Defective modules
Hi Carl Would like to see real data. Photon publishes their module data, and thin film are no where near the top of the list. Nexpower. #14 First solar. #131 Total of 151 modules in the test. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPad On Jun 1, 2013, at 6:20 PM, Carl Emerson c...@solarking.net.nz wrote: Hi there, Thin film is still getting bad press after early production suffered degradation issues way back in the 90’s. There is plenty of evidence that thin film produces at least 10% more energy because it performs better at temperature and responds better to global irradiance. Some brands may be problematic today but this is equally true of crystalline modules. Sure the efficiency is down and more area is needed for the same rated power but some brands are delivering 20% more energy in some climates. As for degradation, I have seen crystalline BP’s with every panel turning brown and clapping out after just 12 years in the pacific Islands. So let’s be Brand specific and not lump all thin film together and tar it with the same brush, based on early failures 30 years ago. Current issues backed up with hard data would be very useful… Regards Carl Emerson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Defective modules
Hi Carl, Here is the link to how Photon measures each module. http://www.photon.info/photon_lab_modul_ertragsm_en.photon?ActiveID=1289 and http://www.photon.info/photon_lab_modul_ertragsmAD_en.photon?ActiveID=4382 Can you please tell me how they are doing it wrong, and what the test would look like in doing it right? Many thanks, jay peltz power On Jun 2, 2013, at 3:27 PM, Carl Emerson wrote: Jay, The short answer is no… These are not real world tests of energy yield under ‘normal’ outdoor conditions. Photon are setting up field tests for 2013 in Germany and the middle East. Then they will have some useful data. Carl E. Hi Carl Would like to see real data. Photon publishes their module data, and thin film are no where near the top of the list. Nexpower. #14 First solar. #131 Total of 151 modules in the test. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPad On Jun 1, 2013, at 6:20 PM, Carl Emerson c...@solarking.net.nz wrote: Hi there, Thin film is still getting bad press after early production suffered degradation issues way back in the 90’s. There is plenty of evidence that thin film produces at least 10% more energy because it performs better at temperature and responds better to global irradiance. Some brands may be problematic today but this is equally true of crystalline modules. Sure the efficiency is down and more area is needed for the same rated power but some brands are delivering 20% more energy in some climates. As for degradation, I have seen crystalline BP’s with every panel turning brown and clapping out after just 12 years in the pacific Islands. So let’s be Brand specific and not lump all thin film together and tar it with the same brush, based on early failures 30 years ago. Current issues backed up with hard data would be very useful… Regards Carl Emerson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] pump questions
HI all All those 75 watt panels were really close to the same parameters. According to one catalog, it was: 4.4 imp, 4.8isc, 17 vmp, 21 voc From memory, they did poorly in hot weather, heavy voltage drop. jay peltz power On May 31, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Bob-O and Todd, In theory you're right, Bob-O. I find the program awkward to use, given that it thinks in some weird (Danish?) way, that I don't use often enough to remember how to navigate. But in this case my bigger concern would be how to input data for a bunch of old used Astropower 75s. Astropower's been gone for over ten years, I think, and data isn't likely to show up on the backsheets. WINCaps doesn't account for module degradation, either. Todd, I might have a copy of a module spec sheet for the AP75 in our files at the office. Not sure, as we never used any, but I collected a lot of that old crap. Contact me off list on Monday if you need me to look. Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] used panel mount questions
Hi Allan and Todd. these modules sound like the ones that Powerlight used back many years ago. These modules were mounted flat with the blue foam as insulation/mounting. the concept while pretty cool at first look didn't work out. Not sure what to tell you about what/how to mount them too however. jay peltz power On May 30, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Todd, I don't have your answers, only the caution that blue foam to many of us with a construction background means extruded polystyrene or blueboard, commonly used around foundations. It deteriorates with exposure to sunlight, so could only be used in an application such as this if protected from UV. Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 5/30/2013 4:14 PM, Todd Cory wrote: wrenches, i have a customer who purchased 20 used astropower ap75 modules. they are frameless and appear to have been previously mounted using four, 2 wide X 10 long strips of blue rigid foam, glued to the back of each module with some kind of adhesive. two questions: this seems to be a reasonable mounting system id like to repeat. would anyone familiar with this kind of mounting technique be willing to comment/speculate on an adhesive that would not degrade the tedlar backsheet? whatever was previously used worked great. what kind of flat/smooth mounting surface would folks suggest the other side of the blue foam be attached to? the only thing i can think of is plywood, but that would rot over time. thanks, todd ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] used panel mount questions
Hi Dan, Schletter solar has some. under their Laminate modules and accessories section. jay peltz power On May 30, 2013, at 4:25 PM, Exeltech wrote: I've seen rack edge clamps for frameless PV advertised, but didn't make a mental note of made by whom, or where I saw the ad. I *do* recall the clamps were intended to be located along the long edges, not the ends. Otherwise, expansion/contraction would stress/break the glass. There's a wealth of knowledge and know-how here. Someone with the answer will chime in. Dan --- On Thu, 5/30/13, toddc...@finestplanet.com toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote: From: toddc...@finestplanet.com toddc...@finestplanet.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] used panel mount questions To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Thursday, May 30, 2013, 6:06 PM good point dan... i wonder how frameless modules are intended to be mounted? todd On Thursday, May 30, 2013 4:00pm, Exeltech exelt...@yahoo.com said: I agree with Allen, and would like to add a related comment. Foam boards are thermally insulative in nature. If affixed to the PV with adhesive, they would cause the PV module to run hotter than if the backsheet was fully exposed to the air. This results in reduced energy output under all conditions, and increased thermal stresses on the PV cells, internal buss, bonds, and other aspects of the PV. Dan --- On Thu, 5/30/13, Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com wrote: From: Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] used panel mount questions To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Thursday, May 30, 2013, 5:46 PM Todd, I don't have your answers, only the caution that blue foam to many of us with a construction background means extruded polystyrene or blueboard, commonly used around foundations. It deteriorates with exposure to sunlight, so could only be used in an application such as this if protected from UV. Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 5/30/2013 4:14 PM, Todd Cory wrote: wrenches, i have a customer who purchased 20 used astropower ap75 modules. they are frameless and appear to have been previously mounted using four, 2 wide X 10 long strips of blue rigid foam, glued to the back of each module with some kind of adhesive. two questions: this seems to be a reasonable mounting system id like to repeat. would anyone familiar with this kind of mounting technique be willing to comment/speculate on an adhesive that would not degrade the tedlar backsheet? whatever was previously used worked great. what kind of flat/smooth mounting surface would folks suggest the other side of the blue foam be attached to? the only thing i can think of is plywood, but that would rot over time. thanks, todd ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List
[RE-wrenches] modules
A question about US made modules. Who actually makes the cells here in the us? Only 2 that i know of, Im sure there are more. Solar world. First solar who else? thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling different brands
Hi Lars I'm curious what you found those efficiency differences to be? And how are you measuring inverter charging efficiency in the bi directional mode Thanks Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2013, at 10:53 AM, lars Ortegren l...@cal-solar.com wrote: We have done a number of off grid AC coupling projects over the last eight years. We have found they are successful with anything that comes close to a true sign wave, including some of the old Trace inverters. I would be careful to not come too close to the wattage of the source inverter, and keep in mind that your battery charging is only one stage (bulk), and might not be the best choice without another charging source (i.e. the grid, or a semi regular generator). I can't say it makes a lot of sense, but when we have tested grid tied inverters and charge controllers side by side, the GT inverters produce significantly more than any CC's on the market.. Any more, I think that it is a better design to have the larger array tied to a GT inverter, and a small array tied to a charge controller for absorb and float charging...Just sayin. Lars Ortegren Director of Operations California Solar Electric Company 10141 Evening Star Drive, Suite 6 Grass Valley, CA 95945 http://www.californiasolarco.com/ Phone : (530)274-3671 Fax: (530)274-7518 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV-direct electric water heating
Hi Hilton What controller did he use? Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On May 14, 2013, at 5:22 PM, Hilton Dier III hiltond...@gmail.com wrote: A friend of mine lives off grid with PV and wind. He added a shunt-type controller to his battery bank and connected it to a DC heating element in his hot water tank. Below a set voltage the element is dormant. When the battery bank hits a high voltage (at the end of a particularly sunny day or during a windy spell) the element comes on. That way, instead of just a PWM shutoff and wasted energy, he gets some benefit. I wouldn't deliberately install PV just for hot water, but in an off grid situation where the excess would go to waste, it makes sense. Hilton -- Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Partner, Solar Gain LLC 453 East Hill Rd. Middlesex, VT 05602 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Boxes
Hi Jesse What is your concern with a wood based battery box? Thanks Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPad On May 11, 2013, at 10:16 PM, Jesse Dahl dahlso...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I visited a site on Friday to do some trouble-shooting on a system and noticed the battery box was homemade by the installer of the system. Made from lumber. Seems to me like there may be some safety and liability issues with a homemade/lumber battery box. Maybe I'm getting gun shy after hearing sue stories. Is this a common practice? I did some looking and there really isn't a single box that would work for this system so it would've taken two boxes to do it, so that could be why they did it. Thanks as always, Jesse Sent from my iPhone ___ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Back-up and Grid Tie
Hi bill Just how often is your grid down? Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Apr 26, 2013, at 10:01 AM, Bill Turberville billt...@ece-llc.com wrote: I live in a TVA area where there is a Feed In Tariff. Everything that is generated by the PV array feeds into the grid through a Generation Meter that ties-in ahead of the house meter. I have started getting calls from customers who hate having a solar array that does not generate when the grid is down but the sun is shining, but who also want to get the $.12 premium when the grid is connected. We have lots of systems with SMA Sunnyboy inverters, but more with Enphase micro-inverters. Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel, what you found to be the best solution for this type of installation? W.C. (Bill) Turberville P.E. President ECE Solar Electrical Contracting Enterprises LLC 3080 Stage Post Road Suite 107 Bartlett, TN 38133 901-348-9230 ext 101 phone 901-348-2192 fax 901-289-6346 cell billt...@ece-llc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 032611-320 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] large ground mounts
HI All, Wondering if anyone has recommendations of the following ground mounts. Unirac ULA vs Iron Ridge ground mount. Thanks in advance, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] ground mount options?
How large an array are you needing? Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPad On Apr 17, 2013, at 9:23 PM, Jesse Dahl dahlso...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I've been asked to put together a proposal for a local community and the only option is a ground mount (pole mount would work too). I've looked at a few options today and was wondering if anyone has any opinions on the DPW Power Peak mounting system? Also, I would be interested in any other ground mount options that people like/recommend. I've used the two-tier mount on a few projects and the DPW MPM and liked them good enough, but I'm always interested in trying new mounts. Thanks! Jesse ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Micro-inverters for 3-phase 220/127 in Mexico
Hi all You might look at HiQ http://www.hiqsolar.com/ Dave Katz has been using them and likes them a lot They are a true 3 wire 3 phase. And have bidirectional communication. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 7:20 AM, Chris Mason cometenergysyst...@gmail.com wrote: Do you think Enphase be willing to increase the VMax? That's what we do here when we have 220V 3ph issues. As we are not US based, there is no UL issue. I have a project right now that Enphase is the best solution, but the voltage would be 129v typically, so I would be unwilling to put in stock units. On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 8:03 PM, Kent Osterberg k...@coveoregon.com wrote: Enphase lists the standard operating range for the 208-volt 3-phase configuration as 183 to 229 volts. Seems like 220-volt 3-phase might work with a little caution about wiring losses. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. www.bluemountainsolar.com On 4/15/2013 4:28 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: Interesting….Here is a reply from Enphase received on 4-11-13, Hi Larry, No we do not have a inverter that will work with this. Our inverter is for 240AC 2 Phase, 208AC 3 Phase… Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Apr 15, 2013, at 1:54 PM, Nick Soleil nsol...@enphaseenergy.com wrote: Hi Larry, Enphase is supplying microinverters into Mexico and supporting the 127/220 applications. We have hundreds of installations installed at this voltage now. Feel free to contact me off-line, and I would be happy to discuss the details. On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems la...@starlightsolar.com wrote: Wrenches, A customer in Mexico wants to start with about 10kW PV. They have a 225 kva transformer supplying 220/127 volt 3-phase to the property. They are adding buildings/roof space in several stages over the next 4 years and want to grow the installation to 120kW of PV solar power. Manufacturer data sheets are not real clear. Who makes micro-inverters suitable for this? I know Enphase does not. Thank you, Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems -- Cordially, Nick Soleil Field Applications Engineer Enphase Energy Mobile: (707) 321-2937 Enphase Commercial Solar. Limitless. 1420 North McDowell Petaluma, CA 94954 www.enphase.com P: (707) 763-4784 x7267 F: (707) 763-0784 E: nsol...@enphaseenergy.com image002.jpg Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 “Don’t get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It’s just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there’s an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it’s wireless! .” - William McDonough This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Chris Mason President, Comet Systems Ltd www.cometenergysystems.com Cell: 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http
Re: [RE-wrenches] outback fx series inverters
Hi guys, While I agree that its probably crazy talk. There is one story I have to share. Just like this one, the customer was complaining of the emf's. then she called the install company to say that they were gone!. She didn't know that just that morning the install guys had put a faraday cage around the inverter, put in extra grounds etc. No way she could have known, but she did notice the difference. So don't discount everyone, just almost everyone. jay peltz power On Apr 13, 2013, at 1:09 PM, Chris Daum wrote: I don't knowI have perhaps three customers, over the past ~20 years, who claim to be 'allergic to electricity', for lack of a better term. As you can imagine, existing in our current society is actually painful for them. They've all bought (for example) propane 'fridges since they use no electricity and don't cause them to have that 'pins needles' feeling they get when they are near electrical fields. I try not to laugh at them, yet I believe they are sincere when they tell me, I can't stand to be near anything electrical. So perhaps there needs to be some sort of independent test to confirm what these folks claim to feel. Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Randy Brooks Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2013 1:53 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] outback fx series inverters Have you used a gaus meter (http://www.amazon.com/Gen-El-Gauss-Master/dp/B0004IR6J6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8qid=1365882645sr=8-2keywords=gaus+meter) to measure the EMF near the inverters and other places? Might put it in perspective. Randy On Apr 13, 2013, at 12:17 PM, Todd Cory toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote: wrenches... put on our tin foil hats... i have a customer who claims the emf from their grid tied gvfx3648 is making them sick. does anyone know the switching frequency of the inverter and has anyone else reported this? also any ideas on how to mitigate it? thanks, todd ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Advanced PV Training Recommendations
HI Eric, I'm going to advise you to look at SEI Solar energy international. http://www.solarenergy.org/ Full disclosure, I teach part time from them. Cheers, jay peltz power On Apr 12, 2013, at 12:46 PM, SunHarvest wrote: Wrenchers - I am in need of hands-on advanced training for my own continuing education. I have a California C46 solar contractor's license and plenty of experience designing and installing systems. But, as you all know, there are always more details to master, code issues to be clarified, and new technologies coming down the pike. I'd like to focus on off-grid and on-grid w/BB systems over straight grid-tie. I'm looking at Solar Living Institute as that's here in NorCal, where I live. Are there any training schools/programs that you guys would recommend? My main requirements are that the instructor has 20+ years of hands-on experience and that the training is hands-on and fully comprehensive. I am interested in getting NABCEP certified but I'm more concerned with getting professional, in-depth training than with qualifying for NABCEP exam requirements. Thanks! Eric SunHarvest - Original Message - From: John Berdner To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Combining conductors Larry: Yes, you can parallel conductors (there is an NEC limit on minimum size allowed to parallel). You just add the ampacity of the two conductors. To convince yourself you can also check Table 8 Conductor Properties and sum the cross sectional areas of all the parallel conductors to see the equivalency to a single larger conductor. Best Regards, John Berdner General Manager, North America SolarEdge Technologies, Inc. 3347 Gateway Boulevard, Fremont CA 94538 USA (*Please note of our new address.) T: 510.498.3200, X 747 M: 530.277.4894 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 9:51 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combining conductors Wrenches, Here's a tough one for me to understand. I am installing 2 volt AGM batteries. There are two terminals for each battery polarity. I have some height limits so I need to use the minimum wire size. Here's my question: If I combine two identical conductors, what is the equivalent single conductor size? I found one rule of thumb that says doubling like conductors creates a AWG decrease of 3. Example: two #2 will be equivalent to 2/0. Is this true? Thank you, Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and its attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity who is the intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure or any type of use under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, or the employee, agent, or representative responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please reply immediately to the sender. P Please think of the environment before printing this email ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable tray
Hi Bill I'm with you all the way. I love to do things Telecomm style. Very clean, safe and better IMHO. 1000v PV wire can be bought at PV cables.com Cheers Jay Peltz Power. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Auto Gen on Outback
Hi drake It's the mate which has had issues. Make sure the mate is current rev. Outback will put in latest version for no charge. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Mar 27, 2013, at 12:51 PM, Drake drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote: Hello Wrenches, We are adding a Generac EcoGen to an existing Outback VFX 3648 system. It was the recommendations from those of you on this list who have installed them that led to this choice. Your testimonials are very much appreciated. I've read, on this list, that people have had issues with FX family inverters starting and stopping generators reliably. The plan was to go with the Atkinson GSCM and a separate voltage controlled relay. It appears that if the system is 48 volts, it is necessary to center tap the battery bank for a 24 volt feed to the GSCM. This I don't want to do. Is it still agreed that the FX inverters are not reliable for starting and stopping generators? Has anyone used a GSCM on a 48 volt system without problems? Thank you, Drake ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Situation
Hi Jeremy Seems like a perfect place for the 600v controller from xantrex Jay Peltz power. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez- All Solar Inc. allso...@scswifi.net wrote: Wrenches, Here is my situation: GT string inverter - 3 strings of mods, 10KW DC. We need to reduce the PV when the grid is down as to not overload the AC coupled inverters. Is there a good way to limit PV input like shunt off some power or short part of the array? (part) I was first thinking of dropping off 2 of the three strings, but that would not leave enough input for the critical loads. Has anyone done such a thing? Jeremy All Solar CO- USA Sent via BlackBerry. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] bad battery = system overvoltage = dead inverter
Hi Dan Can you tell us which CC? Thx Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Temperature sensor compatibility for inverters, charge controllers
HI Larry, Been wanting to know that myself. I know that outback and midnight are compatible. jay peltz power On Mar 11, 2013, at 3:48 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: Battery Wrenches, There are a myriad of battery temperature sensors for inverter/chargers and charge controllers. Does anyone know of compatibility between sensors? For example, I need some of the old Heart (then Xantrex, then Schneider) 20-0022-00 temperature sensors but they are now special order, weeks of waiting with drop ship fees. 1. Will anything else work? 2. Does anyone have a part #/specification for the sensor device? Thank you, Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] DC generators
I just wanted to follow up on one thing about the kohler DC gensets. I talked to my genny buddy about the Kohler and he said: The voltages are adjustable. On the 24v unit, from 24 to 33v. It also tapers the current down to around 40 amps, from a peak of 222. thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] DC generators
HI All, I know many of you like this concept. I was just made aware of a new product from Kohler. Kohler 6vsg. Natural gas or propane, 24, 36,48v dc only looks pretty good, I understand it was made for the telecom industry. And while Im not normally on board with the DC genset idea, that i can get 222 amps from 6kw at 24v is very appealing. http://www.kohlerpower.com/industrial/filterresults.htm?categoryNumber=12061sectionNumber=13261filter_1=Variable%20Speed,%20Direct%20Current Cheers, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Wireless AC relay
Hi all I seem to remember some folks using a wireless remote to control a AC relay Any info on this would be appreciated Thanks in advance Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] MC3-MC4 Connectors
Hi Jason Contact. PV cables br...@pv-cables.com 707-923-3000 Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPad On Feb 13, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.com wrote: I'm getting an odd number of calls recently from local people who want MC4 connectors. When I tell them a crimping tool is needed, they tell me they could also use MC3 to MC4 adapters. I'm guessing that somebody dumped a bunch of old modules with MC3 connectors in the local market to DIY'ers. I keep trying to probe to see if they need MC3 locking clamshells for interconnections to meet code, but they have no idea what I'm talking about, of course. Anyway, can someone give me a source for adapter cables. My usual sources have stopped carrying them. Eventually I'll get one of these guys to let the pros take over. :) Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator Controlled Mini Grid
Hi guys, You might look into AC direct hydro controls. Thompson and Howe make them they are designed to keep both frequency and voltage within tolerance with dump loads. jay peltz power On Feb 12, 2013, at 5:13 PM, Glenn Burt wrote: Sounds like a job for a directional relay - utilities use them. -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 7:29 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator Controlled Mini Grid Hi Kevin, Right now we are in the stages of investigating what is possible. The design is for 10kW of PV - inverter capacity. The inverters will be Sunny Boys, so if may be possible to regulate them. We haven't decided on a generator yet. A dump load sounds like a good way to absorb excess power. Have you heard of electronic controls to facilitate this process? Thanks, Drake At 03:43 PM 2/12/2013, you wrote: Hi Drake, Further, can you give us an idea what scale you are talking here - ie PV and Generator capacity? With your mention of inverter/generator if your talking ie the small Honda EU6500 or such? I did think of another project that I am involved with - it's a remote community with conventional diesel power plant (100 kW day, 30 kW night). There is 27 kW of distributed PV over 5-6 different homes, using the older Xantrex GT inverters. It's not the most elegantly designed solution - as it's possible for PV output to be greater than the load which causes shutdowns. In that case, a dump load is kicked in briefly and that bumps the frequency enough to kick the GT inverters offline, and then the cycle repeats. Not my design, but it does work and has been this way for several years now. Kevin -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of Drake Sent: February 10, 2013 10:46 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator Controlled Mini Grid Hi Kevin, Thanks for the Eigg video. What a great place. I didn't see evidence of any AC coupling of inverter produced AC to a generator produced mini grid. I understand this is being done in a homebrew manner by some. The current wisdom on the issue is that the less the PV contribution to the generator supplied grid is, the easier. It would seem that if a grid tie inverter output could be regulated, using Sunny Island type controls, it should be possible to have a small inverter generator create a mini grid that could be fed by PV. A system featuring this type of technology was linked in a posting on this list some years ago, The link seems dead now. In that case a large generator was feeding a number of houses, and PV was fed into the system. The reason for this interest is that battery backup systems are much more expensive than generators. We need to find a way to utilize PV arrays during outages without the expense of battery backup systems. Drake ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Accessibility of Equipment on Roof was Are PV Systems Mechanical Equipment?
Hi jason, 3 questions, I can't find the MNPV-AC in midnites price list, is this something custom or just new? And if you don't need breakers why not just do a junction box on the roof. and the inspectors I've had have requested a disconnecting means on the roof or visible from the roof. So I've done the enphase suggested switches on the roof, but no overcurrent. It doesn't appear that is a requirement from your inspector? jay peltz power On Feb 8, 2013, at 7:27 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: Oh, yes - that is a great application for the MNPV-AC. I didn't mean to imply there isn't a good use for them. In this particular instance the three MVPV-AC's are really subcombiners that get all get tied together in another subpanel at ground level. They really were not necessary, but made it more convenient and cost effective. It's just interesting how Midnite advertises that they can be mounted as flat as a 3:12 pitch. What application would allow this mounting angle where it is still readily accessible? The spec/advertising seems to imply that these can be roof mounted in an AC string combining application. The Soladeck combiner with fuses would appear to be non-code compliant in any situation. I would love for someone to refute that in a convincing way given the access requirements in 240.24(A). Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:31 PM, jay peltz j...@asis.com wrote: Hi Jason, Is it possible to install them on the side of a building? And Dan's suggestion for the remote midnite might be perfect. jay On Feb 7, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: Jay, I assume you mean pitched roofs, or not readily accessible flat roofs. This particular project happens to be a flat commercial roof, but with no permanent ladder or hatch. I really didn't have to use the MNPV6-AC's, but it made sense in this case (excluding the access issue). Looks like my options are to remove the combiners or install a permanent access. Neither are fun options. Live and learn... Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Accessibility of Equipment on Roof was Are PV Systems Mechanical Equipment?
I'm with your inspector on this. I don't install fuses or breakers on roofs jay peltz power On Feb 7, 2013, at 12:02 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: While I haven't completely convinced the latest inspector about PV not being mechanical equipment, I'm running into another issue. I decided to try out the new Midnite MNPV6-AC combiner for Enphase circuits. Because there are overcurrent devices inside, the inspector now insists that NEC 240.24(A) applies and that the enclosure must be readily accessible, meaning you have to reach it without a ladder. That would seem to make the MNPV6-AC as a roof mounted solution, or Soladeck combiner boxes, or any other combiner box incorporating overcurrent protection, pretty much useless on a pitched roof or flat roof without a permanent access ladder or hatch. I'm debating whether to go to battle on this one or just capitulate. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar P.S. To answer benn's question, there is no definition of 'mechanical,' but it does define 'equipment,' and it's clear to me that PV does not fit the description. mbers.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Accessibility of Equipment on Roof was Are PV Systems Mechanical Equipment?
Hi Jason, Is it possible to install them on the side of a building? And Dan's suggestion for the remote midnite might be perfect. jay On Feb 7, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: Jay, I assume you mean pitched roofs, or not readily accessible flat roofs. This particular project happens to be a flat commercial roof, but with no permanent ladder or hatch. I really didn't have to use the MNPV6-AC's, but it made sense in this case (excluding the access issue). Looks like my options are to remove the combiners or install a permanent access. Neither are fun options. Live and learn... Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 6:27 PM, jay peltz j...@asis.com wrote: I'm with your inspector on this. I don't install fuses or breakers on roofs jay peltz power On Feb 7, 2013, at 12:02 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: While I haven't completely convinced the latest inspector about PV not being mechanical equipment, I'm running into another issue. I decided to try out the new Midnite MNPV6-AC combiner for Enphase circuits. Because there are overcurrent devices inside, the inspector now insists that NEC 240.24(A) applies and that the enclosure must be readily accessible, meaning you have to reach it without a ladder. That would seem to make the MNPV6-AC as a roof mounted solution, or Soladeck combiner boxes, or any other combiner box incorporating overcurrent protection, pretty much useless on a pitched roof or flat roof without a permanent access ladder or hatch. I'm debating whether to go to battle on this one or just capitulate. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar P.S. To answer benn's question, there is no definition of 'mechanical,' but it does define 'equipment,' and it's clear to me that PV does not fit the description. mbers.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island DC wire size
HI Howie, I've seen someone use a single 4/0 fine stranded cable with a regular lug on the end of it. they then cut the top of the hole out to make in a sense a U shape. Each side of the U fit into each side of the 2 hole barrel connector on the SI. Super slick iI thought. I can send you a pic if you want. jay peltz power On Feb 4, 2013, at 11:46 AM, Howie Michaelson wrote: Hi it has been more than a year since I wired up a Sunny Island 5048 system and I'm trying to determine lug size for the DC conductors. My memory is that the maxiumm wire size was (2) #1 conductors each for positive and negative. Looking in the most recent SI manual states The Sunny Island has a MAX DC terminal rated for 2x #2/0 AWG for DC+, DC- and PE. Not sure if that is a typo - anyone no definitively? The tech support line has gotten to have as long a hold time as Outback, Xantrex, etc... Thanks, Howie -- Howie Michaelson NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Catamount Solar, LLC Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service VT Solar Electric Hot Water Incentive Partner http://www.CatamountSolar.com 802-272-0004 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] wrenches] Husqvarna 5500 and VFX3524Compatibility question
Hi Carl, Your 230vac is a single wave form right? RMS peak to zero crossing of 230v vs our 240vac which is 2 phase wave form RMS peak to zero crossing of 120v Have I got this right? thanks, jay peltz power On Feb 2, 2013, at 6:56 PM, boB wrote: Carl, NZ is 240 VAC right ? 240 VAC 2 wire ? I think that the problem may have to do with leg to leg voltage cross regulation imbalance in 120/240 3 wire systems. boB On 2/2/2013 3:23 PM, Carl Emerson wrote: Goodness knows why 240V Sunny Island’s are unavailable in the US… We have been installing these in NZ for years !!! Regards Carl Emerson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] wrenches] Husqvarna 5500 and VFX3524Compatibilityquestion
Hi Carl, thanks and yes, I think its why they only did a 120v version here. Another question for you there. Its my understanding that neither of your legs is bonded to ground correct? jay peltz power On Feb 3, 2013, at 4:22 PM, Carl Emerson wrote: Hi Jay, Yes you have described our grid waveform correctly. It is strange to me that they call yours 240V, the rationale used to describe yours and mine are different I guess. Your grid seems to present less volts and more current. If this is correct then I am guessing that the transformers used in the units here will not work for you. Regards Carl Emerson Hi Carl, Your 230vac is a single wave form right? RMS peak to zero crossing of 230v vs our 240vac which is 2 phase wave form RMS peak to zero crossing of 120v Have I got this right? thanks, jay peltz power On Feb 2, 2013, at 6:56 PM, boB wrote: Carl, NZ is 240 VAC right ? 240 VAC 2 wire ? I think that the problem may have to do with leg to leg voltage cross regulation imbalance in 120/240 3 wire systems. boB On 2/2/2013 3:23 PM, Carl Emerson wrote: Goodness knows why 240V Sunny Island’s are unavailable in the US… We have been installing these in NZ for years !!! Regards Carl Emerson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] generator suggestions
Hi Dan So true. But never had it explained to me why propane is different than gasoline or diesel at altitude. Thx Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:42 AM, Dan Fink danbo...@gmail.com wrote: And because of our Colorado location here, we are always dealing with altitude de-rate factors. We are usually installing at 7000 - 1 feet elevation, which is a big hit. Propane de-rates gennys even further. -- Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 (voicemail) On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Jay Peltz j...@asis.com wrote: Hi all I've found through hard experience that all generators except diesels seem to be smaller than name plate rating. And while the charging maybe reduced if I am conservative in telling the inverter how large the genny is I rarely get the genny to trip its breaker. Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] generator suggestions
Hi guys Right on all accounts but I continue to hear that propane/nat gas is further derated than the liquid fuels. Or is this just bad info? Thx Jay Sent from my iPhone On Jan 30, 2013, at 12:44 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems la...@starlightsolar.com wrote: Jay, In addition to what Dan has said, 1 gallon of propane has about 35% less BTU's compared to 1 gallon of gasoline. So the propane derating must be added to the altitude derate to determine generator output. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Jan 30, 2013, at 1:32 PM, Dan Fink wrote: Jay; The standard seems to be 2-3% derate for every 1000 feet above sea level for gasoline, diesel or LP gas generators, and supposedly more like 5% for natural gas. (in general we don't work in areas that have natural gas service, we only do off-grid). So the propane de-rate for altitude is no worse than the diesel or gasoline de-rate, it's just added on top of it. In practice, we are not seeing that big a hit, but it is hard to really judge. Also, air-cooled generators don't cool as well at high altitudes and tend to run hot. A fairly common troubleshooting call we've seen in the past is clients who have purchased cheap portable generators from Home Depot, Harbor Freight etc. and then find that they can't tune them for anything above 6000 feet -- the carb adjustment screws don't go that far, and the fine print in the warranty actually says 6000 ft max. Ouch! They run so poorly that very few modern inverter/chargers will even look at their input. I've been a local firefighter for 14 years now, even worse problem with chainsaws (2-stroke). We've learned how to bust out the plastic EPA stops on the carb adjust screws, with the of course unofficial instructions to throw the saw into the fire if the EPA shows up.. Never had the slightest high-altitude issues with the Honda x000i series running OK, and I have no idea why. The de-rate factor is certainly still there, but no issues idling or running, no matter what the draw. My Honda 3000i issues are from a different cause I think; there is an extensive thread on that in the archives here that I started in July 2011 I think. DAN FINK On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jay Peltz j...@asis.com wrote: Hi Dan So true. But never had it explained to me why propane is different than gasoline or diesel at altitude. Thx Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:42 AM, Dan Fink danbo...@gmail.com wrote: And because of our Colorado location here, we are always dealing with altitude de-rate factors. We are usually installing at 7000 - 1 feet elevation, which is a big hit. Propane de-rates gennys even further. -- Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 (voicemail) On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Jay Peltz j...@asis.com wrote: Hi all I've found through hard experience that all generators except diesels seem to be smaller than name plate rating. And while the charging maybe reduced if I am conservative in telling the inverter how large the genny is I rarely get the genny to trip its breaker. Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 (voicemail) ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE
Re: [RE-wrenches] Husqvarna 5500 and VFX3524 Compatibility
Many versions of the Iota, Todd before them and now Power Max ( 12v and 24v are available, not sure yet on the 48v) are adjustable or can be ordered with an adjustment feature which will allow for higher than normal setpoints. 16v+ if you want it Jay peltz power On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:31 PM, Carl Hansen wrote: Dan, You may be do this as well, but I frequently deal with homeowners with inexpensive generators, I find that the Outback and Magnum inverters are very tolerant but I do generally have to load the generator up to where I want it bulk charging the batteries, then adjust the generator speed to dial in the freqency to 60Hz using the throttle adj. screw. Do you find the Iota chargers can reach bulk charge voltages, or even EQ voltages ? Carl Hansen On 1/27/2013 5:15 PM, Dan Fink wrote: We have run into many problems on very remote sites with various really nice, small newer inverter/chargers not accepting waveforms from various newer (inverter-based) generators. For example on one particular system Honda 1000i works fine, Honda 2000i works fine, Honda 3000i and the charger says no. Plug a different Honda 3000i into the the same inverter/charger, works fine. After sling-loading the Honda there by helicopter. Argh! Inverter makers have been very helpful but the settings just can't be tweaked that far, RE Wrenches list gurus have been awesomely helpful, Honda not so helpful but at least honest. My service calls by helicopter this year will include an O-scope. I really want to get to the bottom of the problem. It plagues us. I like Iota chargers more and more every summer. -- Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 (voicemail) ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] high insolation value and inverter undersizing
There are many reasons you might want to limit AC output. Say 120%buss bar rule or some other rebate situation where its sized on AC, not DC size. So you can maximize your daily production without going over the peak AC limit. Jay peltz power On Jan 27, 2013, at 8:05 PM, William Miller wrote: Jesse: Do you have any way to compare the total harvest for the day for a given module in a clipping scenario versus an unclipping? The question I want to answer is: Do we improve production enough on the shoulders of the clip to justify the loss on the peak? Thanks, William Miller At 06:25 PM 1/27/2013, you wrote: A while back (3 years)I installed a system (bid spec) for a school that used 215W RECs and D380s on a dual axis tracker. With the ability to monitor the array, I see constant clipping. The modules will usually produce 199Ws regularly. A few days ago we had temps of -34F and clear skies. My array at home had one of its best days this winter. I have Tigos on so I can monitor watts, current, temp and voltage. I was seeing anywhere from 215W to 223W from my modules between 11:30am and 1pm. The modules on the tracker were still producing 199W. I didn't get an irradiance reading that day but my Tigos showed above IMP readings and way above VMP reading that day. I've only been doing this for 6 years, so I don't have the experience that some people on this list have, but it seems foolish to me to waste that production. It's kinda site specific, but where I live the cold temps and snow reflection seem like something we should be utilizing. _ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
Hi guys I've buying the new 6 cell x 72 cell from Trina from a few suppliers. Big yea, but same 44voc so it's an easy add to existing systems. A huge relief. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jan 24, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Hi Allan; I've been in the same conundrum lately. I found that AEE and others have 12 v modules (Solartech), but the price per watt is double or triple. My take is that somewhere around 200 to 400 watts, its more cost effective to go to the GT modules with an MPPT controller. Blue Sky makes the 1524, and 3024 that can take up to 57 Voc, so those would work at still fairly low cost. Unfortunately many of the other low cost MPPT controllers won't work with the 60 cell modules. At some point, it may actually be cost effective to just use 60 cell modules with non MPPT controllers, and just forget about the extra 24 cells. (I know that sounds crazy, but PV less than $1/ watt is crazy too) I'm trying to add modules to an existing array of 8 Siemens 12 v modules, and it just doesn't work out, except with separate controllers. Also, its amazing how much PV you can throw at an off grid project these days for $10k. It almost makes messing around with the old modules a waste of time. Perhaps the solution might be to remove old arrays for customers wanting to really up size, and then reuse the old modules for small systems? Ray On 1/24/2013 12:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued line. Thank you for any discussion and recommendations. Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] lithium batteries
HI All, Is there a rough voltage range ( high/low nominal) for the lithium family of batteries? I'm curious if our current range of inverters can work with these batteries, at least on the load side, probably not on the charging side. thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Micro-Inverters and ACPV Modules
Or often science Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPad On Jan 16, 2013, at 6:50 AM, Drake drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote: That is an interesting point. The Code issue is one of definition, not of function or safety. At 04:02 PM 1/15/2013, you wrote: Hi August, I maintain that the WEEB is an irreversible splice. If you want to disconnect a WEEB from a structure, you must irreversibly damage the device. It cannot be reused. Admittedly the force required to remove a WEEB is less than that required for a thermal splice, but it doesn't take much force to just cut a wire either. I would argue that the intent of the code is to prevent inadvertent removal of the ground. You must knowingly remove a WEEB from the grounding path and if you do so in the maintenance of an array, good workmanship requires that you restore the connection. Best Regards, Brian ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Micro-Inverters and ACPV Modules
Dear John and Brian Thanks for a great discussion. My question is: If you used a WEEB to connect the inverter to the rail, is the rack rail listed as a GEC? Or does it have to be listed as a GEC? Thanks Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPad On Jan 16, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Brian Wiley btwinfin...@gmail.com wrote: Hi John, I don't feel that you are argumentative. I am glad for this forum and people to put forth honest opinions. I think you just may not be aware of how the WEEB actually works. It is a type of rivet, not just a pronged thing that makes connection as part of a bolted connection. It does use a bolt to engage the part, but the teeth on the WEEB are specially shaped. When the bolt is torqued, the teeth deform, similarly to a rivet. The metal that it is connecting to mushrooms up around the tooth and the tooth pinches in around the metal. This deforming action is what forms an exceptional electrical connection and also forms an air-tight seal between the part and embedded metal to resist corrosion. If you remove the bolt, the WEEB will still be connected to the metal. You must forcibly remove the WEEB from the metal. Hope that clears things up for you. Best Regards, Brian Wiley ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] off grid PV connected to generator
Hi Dan Would like to know what they suggested besides changing it to a VFX? Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPad On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:54 PM, Dan Fink danbo...@gmail.com wrote: Talk to Outback. It's an easy fix, on-site. -- Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 (voicemail) On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 2:50 PM, SunHarvest e...@harvesthesun.com wrote: (snip) Further, I recently installed a GVFX for a customer. I'm hearing from certain sources that the grid-tied line of inverters from Outback are not designed to interface with a generator. Really?? (snip) ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] mate + flexnet DC
Hi All, Can you use a Mate 1 with only a flexnet dc? IE no hub, or inverter or CC? thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] XW AGS
I wanted to update you with the AGS issue I had with an XW. It in the end, it was unknown, settings were all correct, but after a full reboot of the XW and the AGS It all works. Here's to the ghost in the machine Jay Peltz Power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
