Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE Master II Pa decks
I do not largely recommend the Astron BB series for proper battery maintenance. The issue is the charge voltage is directly related to the operating voltage so to se the appropriate float voltage you need to tweak the operating voltage pot to a lower level and the charge current is strictly resistive limited...A simple choice but not a good one for long term proper operation of the battery... Our Trace Engineering charger/controller has 22000 current amps passed through it over the last number of years and the original batteries are still there... they were good batteries to start with and they are non vented UPS type... 5 years or so at this point...Trace Engineering is now known as Xantrex..I think... Real Charge controllers on real UPS type batteries have very tight control on bulk, float and maintenance charge cycles to optimize charge for your particular battery and work VERY well for a rather insignificant amount of money in the big picture... The BULK charge is fed straight through from your Power supply and is regulated by the Charge Controller... The station will largely run on the power supply but as I said it is used as a source to the battery charger.. not the source to the station... Size it all correctly and you will never revisit the problem again Astron's are good sources ... but lousy chargers on their own.. at least that is my opinion... Doug KD8B At 07:33 PM 2/10/2009, you wrote: Doug Bade wrote: The loaded voltage is about 12.5 to 12.8 comparable to what would be in the trunk of a car starting at 13.8 at the battery alternator connection.. including voltage drop... That was the design anyhow... Astron's or eq are some what of a problem as they really do not sag at all.. 13.8 all day all night all nice The club is talking about building a battery band that will be somewhere around 400ah at 12vcd. they want to buy some smart charger that puts out 5a. I tried to explain at the club meeting last night that should be battery bank go completely down because of an extended power outage, that a 5a charger would take 80+ hours to bring the batteries back up, and it woul probably take longer than that if the repeater was on during the charge. I was thinking about a rs50BB or the like, but wasn't sure what the MastrII needed if 13.8 would be too much.. That's the basis of the original question. I chose a different route at work and built a battery stack with a trace engineering charge controller float charging the batteries active all the time using a astron or eq as the charger source.. The trace engineering controller ( from the solar world) does the charge maintenance etc like no aftermarket tool I have found for eq moneyI think it was a Model C40 or C65... maybe a C30 would do... all are different current specs... Back we go to Google for product specs. Thanks for the idea! 73 Mike
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor
This is funny. All they appear to be doing is placing a capacitor across the line at the service panel which gives some power factor correction to motor or other inductive loads. But that correction is AT THE POWER PANEL which is only inches or a few feet at the most away from the meter. If you are not being billed for reactive power but only for real power consumed, as you are in a typical home, then it does absolutely nothing for you. It does not lower the current in your motor and does not help prolong its life. It only lowers the current going thru the meter. And since that extra current is reactive it cost you no more or no less whether it is there or not. The other thing is, if you have no motors in inductive appliances running that capacitor is still across the line drawing CAPACTIVE reactance current. Just the opposite of when the inductive load is on by itself. You would need a capacitor reactance value to match the inductive reactance value to fully cancel any reactive current. Not that this hurts anything on you electric bill as you still get billed only for real power used and not reactive power. You have just given away $299.95. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Reed Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:42 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor The device works by changing the voltage waveform to get the most work for the least energy. NASA came up with idea many years ago, and it does work well. I think this was designed more for household appliances and such, not repeater systems, unless you are counting the cooler that holds the 807's... 73 Mike - N7ZEF - Original Message - From: Don Kupferschmidt d...@httpd.org To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor Hello group, I need to chime in here and ask about a device that being sold as an enhancement for saving electrical energy in a residence. The device is called Power-Save 1200 and you can see it at www.power-save.com. From what I can glean from the web site it's a power factor correction device that attaches to the load center wiring panel.via 3 wires; 2 are attached to a dedicated 20 amp 2 pole 220 volt circuit breaker, the other remaining wire is attached to ground. The instructions go on to say that this device is designed to condition all power consumed by inductive loads (electric motors) in the home regardless of installation location. Their web site states: SAVE UP TO 25% ON YOUR MONTHLY ELECTRIC BILLS! (Direct quote). There is a video on the web site that shows a volt / amp meter reading before and after the device is activated. The unit sells for $299.95 + shipping handling. The dealer who told me about this device states that the unit will pay for itself over time. My brother in law is an electrician and we have gotten into a lively discussion about this device and the theory behind it. I say that while the device will probably work as advertised, it may not provide a complete savings to the owner as it is attached to the load center and not the individual motor. In essence, isn't the power company getting some benefit of this device since it's attached to the grid via the breakers which are being fed by the power company? TIA for your comments. Don Kupferschmidt, KD9PT - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:09 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor Tom, Excellent questions! The first is easy: Residences and light commercial occupancies have meters that measure real (true) power only. That's because only real power does work, and that's what you are paying for. The classic kWh meter with the spinning aluminum disk was perfected by Ferraris and Shallenberger more than a century ago, and millions are in service today. The most recent improvement is a magnetically-levitated disk that nearly eliminates any errors due to bearing friction. A revenue-grade kWh meter is extremely accurate, and very seldom requires service. True power is consumed only when the applied voltage and the resulting current are in phase. In this specific case, volts times amps equals watts. When the current is not in phase with the applied voltage, we enter the mysterious world of apparent power, which is expressed as volt-amperes. Nearly all apparent power seems to be consumed by inductive apparatus such as motors and transformers, except that such currents are returned to the source as the magnetic field collapses. Suffice it to say that the current actually flows in the circuit, but it does no real work. When the power factor (PF) is poor, a lot
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor
Hi Gary, I was pretty suspicious of what the unit was claimed to do so I didn't give them any money. It's good that we have a reflector like this one with 3000 + members on the list that can give their $0.02 as well as their technical expertise / opinions. Thanks for replying to my original post. Don, KD9PT - Original Message - From: Gary Schafer gascha...@comcast.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor This is funny. All they appear to be doing is placing a capacitor across the line at the service panel which gives some power factor correction to motor or other inductive loads. But that correction is AT THE POWER PANEL which is only inches or a few feet at the most away from the meter. If you are not being billed for reactive power but only for real power consumed, as you are in a typical home, then it does absolutely nothing for you. It does not lower the current in your motor and does not help prolong its life. It only lowers the current going thru the meter. And since that extra current is reactive it cost you no more or no less whether it is there or not. The other thing is, if you have no motors in inductive appliances running that capacitor is still across the line drawing CAPACTIVE reactance current. Just the opposite of when the inductive load is on by itself. You would need a capacitor reactance value to match the inductive reactance value to fully cancel any reactive current. Not that this hurts anything on you electric bill as you still get billed only for real power used and not reactive power. You have just given away $299.95. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Reed Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:42 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor The device works by changing the voltage waveform to get the most work for the least energy. NASA came up with idea many years ago, and it does work well. I think this was designed more for household appliances and such, not repeater systems, unless you are counting the cooler that holds the 807's... 73 Mike - N7ZEF - Original Message - From: Don Kupferschmidt d...@httpd.org To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor Hello group, I need to chime in here and ask about a device that being sold as an enhancement for saving electrical energy in a residence. The device is called Power-Save 1200 and you can see it at www.power-save.com. From what I can glean from the web site it's a power factor correction device that attaches to the load center wiring panel.via 3 wires; 2 are attached to a dedicated 20 amp 2 pole 220 volt circuit breaker, the other remaining wire is attached to ground. The instructions go on to say that this device is designed to condition all power consumed by inductive loads (electric motors) in the home regardless of installation location. Their web site states: SAVE UP TO 25% ON YOUR MONTHLY ELECTRIC BILLS! (Direct quote). There is a video on the web site that shows a volt / amp meter reading before and after the device is activated. The unit sells for $299.95 + shipping handling. The dealer who told me about this device states that the unit will pay for itself over time. My brother in law is an electrician and we have gotten into a lively discussion about this device and the theory behind it. I say that while the device will probably work as advertised, it may not provide a complete savings to the owner as it is attached to the load center and not the individual motor. In essence, isn't the power company getting some benefit of this device since it's attached to the grid via the breakers which are being fed by the power company? TIA for your comments. Don Kupferschmidt, KD9PT - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:09 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor Tom, Excellent questions! The first is easy: Residences and light commercial occupancies have meters that measure real (true) power only. That's because only real power does work, and that's what you are paying for. The classic kWh meter with the spinning aluminum disk was perfected by Ferraris and Shallenberger more than a century ago, and millions are in service today. The most recent improvement is a magnetically-levitated disk that nearly eliminates any errors due to bearing friction. A revenue-grade kWh meter is extremely accurate, and very seldom requires service. True power is consumed only when the applied voltage and the resulting current are in
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor
Don Kupferschmidt wrote: Hi Gary, I was pretty suspicious of what the unit was claimed to do so I didn't give them any money. It's good that we have a reflector like this one with 3000 + members on the list that can give their $0.02 as well as their technical expertise / opinions. When in doubt, Google is your friend... I Googled power-save 1200 scam It revealed exactly what Gary said: http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/power-save-1200-recapture-your-electricity-line-loss.html Kevin Custer List Owner
RE: [Repeater-Builder] 220MHz items FS - preamp, crystals
Eric, Not trying to ruin your day, but... http://www.advancedreceiver.com/page7.html ...shows the SP220VDG pre-amp at $119.95 brand-new. Not trying to be a cheap ham, just sayin'. For most duplexed repeater setups, the P220VDG on this page: http://www.advancedreceiver.com/page5.html For $79.95 new, would fit the bill... The SP220VDG is RF-sensing switched, and can only handle 25W of thru-power for those wondering. The P220VDG is receive-only. Nate -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kk2ed Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:08 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 220MHz items FS - preamp, crystals I have a few 220MHz related items FS: ARR (Advanced Receiver Research) SP220VDG 220MHz GaAs Fet switchable preamp. In like new condition with paperwork. One minor scratch on the rear, otherwise appears new. Mounting screw holes and pwr connections look like they were never used. Tested on my tracking generator, and working to specs. Sells for $150+sh new. $120 shipped USPS.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Kenwood conversion
Of course, if he is building a repeater for ham use, type acceptance doesn't matter (I whipped up a very nice temporary 440 repeater using 2 Bendix-King EMV4990A mobiles and an NHRC-2 controller. People said it sounded better than the Icom repeater it was filling in for...) George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413 - Original Message - From: Maire-Radios maire-rad...@verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Kenwood conversion I would go with a true repeater as the mobiles are not type accepted for the use and there duty cycle in not designed for a repeater use. John - Original Message - From: redneckfirefighter800 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 11:32 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Kenwood conversion Before I get in over my head with this project, I want to see if its A. practical B. feasable C. cost effective. I have on hand a tk-880 and a tk-805d power supply and antennas and required cable and software to program both. Is this possible or should I buy a ericson readymade repeater system? Thanks James Radio Officer REACT 6101
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor
I took the time to view their short video. http://www.power-save.com/1200.html They show the Amperage to the load (a motor) is changed with and without the Power Saver. Notice I said Amperage not KiloWatt Hours. KWH's are not referenced in the video, and is what you actually pay for for most residences. I wasn't sure exactly what the meter they were using was reading, so I downloaded the manual and read through it to see what was being displayed: http://www.tequipment.net/pdf/LEM/2050_man.pdf Page 14 tells the story here... If you look closely, the hand-held meter is simultaneously reading kW (the upper most reading). In the first demonstration, the kWh reading does not change with the unit on or off. In the latter two demonstrations, the kW reading GOES UP. I'm uncertain why the kWh reading (the reading closest to the bottom) doesn't show the change, maybe the meter takes a while to recalculate Smoke - Mirrors... So, you pay $300 (plus installation) to benefit the power company; which you get nothing in return, other than it possibly costing YOU more money on your electric bill. Kevin Custer List Owner
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor
Kevin, I think that you meant the amperage to the load (a motor) is UNCHANGED with and without the device. I didn't notice the kwh reading on the meter. Good catch! 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Custer Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:54 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor I took the time to view their short video. http://www.power-save.com/1200.html They show the Amperage to the load (a motor) is changed with and without the Power Saver. Notice I said Amperage not KiloWatt Hours. KWH's are not referenced in the video, and is what you actually pay for for most residences. I wasn't sure exactly what the meter they were using was reading, so I downloaded the manual and read through it to see what was being displayed: http://www.tequipment.net/pdf/LEM/2050_man.pdf Page 14 tells the story here... If you look closely, the hand-held meter is simultaneously reading kW (the upper most reading). In the first demonstration, the kWh reading does not change with the unit on or off. In the latter two demonstrations, the kW reading GOES UP. I'm uncertain why the kWh reading (the reading closest to the bottom) doesn't show the change, maybe the meter takes a while to recalculate Smoke - Mirrors... So, you pay $300 (plus installation) to benefit the power company; which you get nothing in return, other than it possibly costing YOU more money on your electric bill. Kevin Custer List Owner Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor
Gary Schafer wrote: Kevin, I think that you meant the amperage to the load (a motor) is UNCHANGED with and without the device. I wasn't very clear What I meant was the amperage to the load from the first ammeter is changed by the presence the unit. Of course, the amperage to the load from the second ammeter is unchanged with or without the device; which goes on to prove the unit really doesn't do anything... It sure doesn't save on the motor! Kevin
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor
The kWh reading didn't change because the time was too short. If they ran the test for an hour on, reset the meter, then an hour off you could have more easily seen a result -- it wouldn't have mattered -- no savings. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - If you look closely, the hand-held meter is simultaneously reading kW (the upper most reading). In the first demonstration, the kWh reading does not change with the unit on or off. In the latter two demonstrations, the kW reading GOES UP. I'm uncertain why the kWh reading (the reading closest to the bottom) doesn't show the change, maybe the meter takes a while to recalculate Smoke - Mirrors...
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor
You always have to be on the look out for any product that states as seen on TV - Original Message - From: Kevin Custer kug...@kuggie.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor Gary Schafer wrote: Kevin, I think that you meant the amperage to the load (a motor) is UNCHANGED with and without the device. I wasn't very clear What I meant was the amperage to the load from the first ammeter is changed by the presence the unit. Of course, the amperage to the load from the second ammeter is unchanged with or without the device; which goes on to prove the unit really doesn't do anything... It sure doesn't save on the motor! Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor
No you wouldn't have seen any change in the kwh reading in an hour because there is no change in real power which is what kwh is. If you were measuring kva (volt amperes) then that would change. I would assume that the kwh reading on the (handheld) meter would be instantaneous. Otherwise you would have to wait an hour in order for it to give you a reading of any kind. No different than reading horse power on a meter on a dyno. Or for that mater even rpm on an rpm meter. You don't have to wait a full minute or read revs per minute. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:36 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor The kWh reading didn't change because the time was too short. If they ran the test for an hour on, reset the meter, then an hour off you could have more easily seen a result -- it wouldn't have mattered -- no savings. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - If you look closely, the hand-held meter is simultaneously reading kW (the upper most reading). In the first demonstration, the kWh reading does not change with the unit on or off. In the latter two demonstrations, the kW reading GOES UP. I'm uncertain why the kWh reading (the reading closest to the bottom) doesn't show the change, maybe the meter takes a while to recalculate Smoke - Mirrors... Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor
-Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Custer Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:33 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor Gary Schafer wrote: Kevin, I think that you meant the amperage to the load (a motor) is UNCHANGED with and without the device. I wasn't very clear What I meant was the amperage to the load from the first ammeter is changed by the presence the unit. Of course, the amperage to the load from the second ammeter is unchanged with or without the device; which goes on to prove the unit really doesn't do anything... It sure doesn't save on the motor! Kevin Exactly Kevin! And to further this,, I am assuming that the first ammeter is on the line between the meter and the device and the second ammeter is on the line between the device and the motor. 73 Gary K4FMX
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor
You misunderstood my comment. I agree, there would have been no difference in the readings whether the device was on or off. However the kWh reading would have changed had it been left on long enough, and there was load. Kevin said that the kWh reading didn't change and didn't understand why. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Gary Schafer gascha...@comcast.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor No you wouldn't have seen any change in the kwh reading in an hour because there is no change in real power which is what kwh is. If you were measuring kva (volt amperes) then that would change.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor
Sorry Chuck, yes I did misunderstand your comment. I got ahead of myself on kw verses kwh. You are right. Thanks! Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:03 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor You misunderstood my comment. I agree, there would have been no difference in the readings whether the device was on or off. However the kWh reading would have changed had it been left on long enough, and there was load. Kevin said that the kWh reading didn't change and didn't understand why. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Gary Schafer gascha...@comcast.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor No you wouldn't have seen any change in the kwh reading in an hour because there is no change in real power which is what kwh is. If you were measuring kva (volt amperes) then that would change. Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: 220MHz items FS - preamp, crystals
Thanks for the pointer, Nate. I price- hecked the ARR website last evening before posting this FS message. I just went back and realized what had happened - I was looking at their commercial page, which lists all of the switched preamps at $150, rather than the amateur page which reflects $120, so that is what I based the price on. Based on that, a price correction is in order. I'll let it go for $100 shipped. Some folks like the switched version, as they believe any stray RF getting back into the rx line might switch it out before damage to the fet occurs. On the other hand, some like the ability to wire the switching circuit to a logic output on a controller, thereby allowing remote enabling/disabling of the preamp. Eric KE2D --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Nate Duehr n...@... wrote: Eric, Not trying to ruin your day, but... http://www.advancedreceiver.com/page7.html ...shows the SP220VDG pre-amp at $119.95 brand-new. Not trying to be a cheap ham, just sayin'. For most duplexed repeater setups, the P220VDG on this page: http://www.advancedreceiver.com/page5.html For $79.95 new, would fit the bill... The SP220VDG is RF-sensing switched, and can only handle 25W of thru-power for those wondering. The P220VDG is receive-only. Nate -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kk2ed Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:08 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 220MHz items FS - preamp, crystals I have a few 220MHz related items FS: ARR (Advanced Receiver Research) SP220VDG 220MHz GaAs Fet switchable preamp. In like new condition with paperwork. One minor scratch on the rear, otherwise appears new. Mounting screw holes and pwr connections look like they were never used. Tested on my tracking generator, and working to specs. Sells for $150+sh new. $120 shipped USPS.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 220MHz items FS - preamp, crystals
kk2ed wrote: Thanks for the pointer, Nate. I price- hecked the ARR website last evening before posting this FS message. I just went back and realized what had happened - I was looking at their commercial page, which lists all of the switched preamps at $150, rather than the amateur page which reflects $120, so that is what I based the price on. Ahh, makes sense. Based on that, a price correction is in order. I'll let it go for $100 shipped. Sorry if I cost ya $20! :-) Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer Information Needed
At 2/11/2009 04:11, you wrote: I take it by tuning you mean just adjusting the screws, and not adding or changing anything to them? Yes. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor
Kevin, Thank you for revealing that some power-saving TV ads are nothing more than snake-oil pitches. What is never explained clearly is that these green machines simply lower the voltage until the motor (usually in a washing machine- which spends a lot of time lightly loaded) is drawing its current nearly in phase with the applied voltage- bringing its power factor close to unity. However, that does not save any money, because the work of sloshing the water around has not changed, and therefore the kWh has not changed. The snake-oil pitchmen hope that the unwashed multitudes will be so blown away with the smoke and mirrors act that they will part with their hard-earned money. Not only will these devices not save any money, but they will never provide any return on the investment of the purchase price. My former next-door neighbor was the stereotypical patsy for every such as seen on TV! scam, and he must have spent thousands of dollars on so-called Fire Injectors (Run your car without spark plugs!) to magnetic water softeners (Get infinite soft water without using any salt!). It never ceases to amaze me that there are so many naive people in the world! I will now reveal to the Repeater-Builder list members the sure-fire way to reduce electric bills: Get rid of that clunker refrigerator or freezer in the garage! Case in point: A co-worker remarked that his electric bill was about $120 per month, while mine was about $55. When I learned that he had an old (1955 vintage) Norge freezer in his garage, I lent him a portable kWh meter for a couple of weeks, to measure that freezer's power consumption. It turned out that the one Norge freezer was responsible for just over 1/3 of his power bill! On my urging, he turned it in to PGE for a rebate and bought a new Energy Star freezer. In less than four months, he saved enough on his electric bill to pay for the appliance. A word to the wise... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Custer Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 4:54 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor I took the time to view their short video. http://www.power-save.com/1200.html http://www.power-save.com/1200.html They show the Amperage to the load (a motor) is changed with and without the Power Saver. Notice I said Amperage not KiloWatt Hours. KWH's are not referenced in the video, and is what you actually pay for for most residences. I wasn't sure exactly what the meter they were using was reading, so I downloaded the manual and read through it to see what was being displayed: http://www.tequipment.net/pdf/LEM/2050_man.pdf http://www.tequipment.net/pdf/LEM/2050_man.pdf Page 14 tells the story here... If you look closely, the hand-held meter is simultaneously reading kW (the upper most reading). In the first demonstration, the kWh reading does not change with the unit on or off. In the latter two demonstrations, the kW reading GOES UP. I'm uncertain why the kWh reading (the reading closest to the bottom) doesn't show the change, maybe the meter takes a while to recalculate Smoke - Mirrors... So, you pay $300 (plus installation) to benefit the power company; which you get nothing in return, other than it possibly costing YOU more money on your electric bill. Kevin Custer List Owner
[Repeater-Builder] RE: preamps
At 2/11/2009 16:02, you wrote: Eric, Not trying to ruin your day, but... http://www.advancedreceiver.com/page7.html ...shows the SP220VDG pre-amp at $119.95 brand-new. Not trying to be a cheap ham, just sayin'. For most duplexed repeater setups, the P220VDG on this page: http://www.advancedreceiver.com/page5.html For $79.95 new, would fit the bill... While we're discussing preamps for $79.95 new, have a look at this: http://minicircuits.com/pdfs/ZX60-33LN+.pdf At 1 dB The NF is a bit higher than the ARR/Angle Linear GaAsFETs, but check out that +18 dBm P1dB! And the bandwidth: you can keep it as a spare for your 6, 2, 220, 440, 900, 1.2 or 2.4 GHz repeater! At 21 dB gain, you might need a few dB of attenuation after it if you're feeding a non-commercial quality RX. The only drawbacks to this unit are the 3 or 5 V power requirement (78L05s are cheap though) the SMA RF connectors. BTW if you do need a pad on the output here's a good, cheap selection: http://minicircuits.com/products/attenuators_coax_fixed.html Scroll halfway down to the VAT collection: $12 ea., take your pick. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] Mastr II Info Needed
I have a question for the Mastr II guru's out there. I know the 19D432500G1 PL board will do both Decode and Encode, but I can not find any documentation that shows it operating in both modes at the same time for repeater service. I looked through the manual on the repeater-builder site, but could not find a reference to full duplex operation in a Station. I am trying to help out one of our local radio clubs, but I am a lot more familiar with Motorola radios. If this board does not do full duplex, maybe someone could enlighten me as what GE did for PL transmit and receive modules in a factory Mastr II repeater station. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II Info Needed
Hi, Joe. They use seperate Encode and Decode boards in the drawer of the radio. I hope this answers your question. Butch, KE7FEL/r To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: joeburk...@hotmail.com Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 04:34:40 + Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II Info Needed I have a question for the Mastr II guru's out there. I know the 19D432500G1 PL board will do both Decode and Encode, but I can not find any documentation that shows it operating in both modes at the same time for repeater service. I looked through the manual on the repeater-builder site, but could not find a reference to full duplex operation in a Station. I am trying to help out one of our local radio clubs, but I am a lot more familiar with Motorola radios. If this board does not do full duplex, maybe someone could enlighten me as what GE did for PL transmit and receive modules in a factory Mastr II repeater station. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor
To all interested: I have examined my customers energy bills and there is a power factor number displayed on every bill, in this case .85 or 85%. Now I don't know if the meter reader actually is reading that off the meter every month or not, I suspect they are only interested in the kWh and demand reading each month but if you watch the digital meter it does display KVAR and some number as it steps through four or five different readings, guess it would be nice to know what all those other readings are. Now for the rest of the story. I called the utility company, Consumers Energy in this case and asked if my customer would get a lower rate if he were to bring his power factor closer to unity. The answer was no. There is no rate decrease for power factors of 80% or greater only an increase if he drops below 80% even though he spends a couple thousand on average a month, power factor correction would not benefit him unless his power factor drooped below 80%. In a nut shell, the only people to benefit by installing these energy saving gizmos are the people who sell and install them and the power company, don't let anybody try to tell you any different. The customer had the gizmo salesman call and talk to me and tell me how it worked, he said It stores the power until you need it then it puts it back in to line Quote from their website: http://energy-saver.org/ The Electric Meter Miser The Best Place to Earn up to a 30% Return! Packed with energy storing capacitors, it holds excess energy until you are ready to draw more from the power grid. Most appliance motors operate and expend wasted energy forcing you to demand more energy from your power source. This energy-saver stores electricity keeping your bill down to affordable levels. How could I argue with that? Here is my favorite you tube video, toward the end he is showing a power factor meter device hooked up to a typical house with an energy gizmo. With the gizmo off the power factor is .05 thats right 5%, with the unit on it is increased to .98. How could I argue with that? tom-n8ies http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOaGB_ehaHM object width=425 height=344param name=movie value=http://www.youtube.com/v/sOaGB_ehaHMhl=enfs=1;/paramparam name=allowFullScreen value=true/paramparam name=allowscriptaccess value=always/paramembed src=http://www.youtube.com/v/sOaGB_ehaHMhl=enfs=1; type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowscriptaccess=always allowfullscreen=true width=425 height=344/embed/object
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor
Forgot to add this: It's kind of like the fuel powder you put in your gas tank to increase your mileage. AUSTIN Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott obtained a temporary restraining order and limited asset freeze Monday against Forum Trading, Inc. The states legal enforcement action charges the Texas-based company, which is organized as a multi-level marketing scheme with independent distributors, with marketing energy devices it falsely claims will significantly reduce power consumption, extend the life of household appliances and save consumers money. full story here http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/release_view.php?id=2456 tom-n8ies Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Mastr II Info Needed
Butch, Sounds good. Thanks for the info. Joe --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Butch Kanvick hot...@... wrote: Hi, Joe. They use seperate Encode and Decode boards in the drawer of the radio. I hope this answers your question. Butch, KE7FEL/r To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: joeburk...@... Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 04:34:40 + Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II Info Needed I have a question for the Mastr II guru's out there. I know the 19D432500G1 PL board will do both Decode and Encode, but I can not find any documentation that shows it operating in both modes at the same time for repeater service. I looked through the manual on the repeater-builder site, but could not find a reference to full duplex operation in a Station. I am trying to help out one of our local radio clubs, but I am a lot more familiar with Motorola radios. If this board does not do full duplex, maybe someone could enlighten me as what GE did for PL transmit and receive modules in a factory Mastr II repeater station. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW
