Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Martin]

I agree, pal.

Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Sorry, 
this is no race issue...No matter how hard you look at it...I have to say that 
what is happening is an overreaction to a non-issue...I fail to see any malice 
implied by by Joilie's portrayal of the role...
 
 tetsuwanatom1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  --- In 
scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 >
 > Thanks for your opinion...When you can give me a LOGICAL comeback, 
 I'll change my position...
 
 Is someone trying to change your opinion? I didn't realize. No one 
 has to "make" this a race issue, it already is by virtue of what's 
 happening. You're free not to care, you asked "why" someone should, 
 and I answered. You asked why can't someone enjoy the movie, I can't 
 because it's terrible. 
 
 For someone who seems to value logic, tell me how the old "why don't 
 you make your own movie" is always an answer to questioning 
 Hollywood's movtives regarding race? Ah, you don't like what's 
 happening in Iraq? Why don't you take over the government!! See . . .
 > 
 > tetsuwanatom1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In 
 scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin  wrote:
 > >
 > > (standing ovation)
 > > 
 > > Astromancer  wrote: I 
 > can't keep quiet any longer...Why should anyone care??? 
 > 
 > Because of this. 
 > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/foster/sfeature/sf_minstrelsy.html
 > 
 > >Why can't someone just enjoy the damned moved and not make it a 
 race 
 > issue??? 
 > 
 > Because the movie sucks.
 > 
 > >I understand about our exclusion for the media...but sometimes 
 > >enough is enough...I have always felt that if someone has a 
 > complaint about such things, make the movies yourself...
 > 
 > Oh brother. Okay. Give me 300 million and I'll make that sci-
 fantasy 
 > epic featuring one all Black nation.
 > 
 > Saying that there are other things that one could better spend 
 their 
 > time worrying about isn't really an answer. We can have more than 
 one 
 > issue on our plate.
 > 
 > Moreover, if AJ's playing Mrs Pearl is okay, what's to stop 
 someone 
 > from deciding it's okay to slap make-up on Hopkins and let him 
 play 
 > MLK? Think they wont?
 > 
 > > 
 > > Martin  wrote: If she's going for 
 > the *soul*, the *why darken her skin*?
 > > 
 > > Please remember- non-sensical ravings...
 > > 
 > > KeithBJohnson@ wrote: Big conversations on an e-mail chain I'm 
 > on, and I suspect, around the country, about Jolie playing Mrs. 
 > Pearl. I'd never seen Mrs. Pearl before I saw her on Charlie Rose 
 the 
 > other night, and was surprised to see obvious African heritage in 
 > her. Then I finally saw a picture of Jolie as Mrs. Pearl, and was 
 > surprised to see she had on makeup to darken her skin. Lots of 
 > Sisters are upset, others say that Mrs. Pearl is *not* majority 
 > Black, and has a right to choose whomever she wants to portray 
 her. 
 > Pearl was going for the soul of the actress, not her skin, is the 
 > idea.
 > > 
 > > What do you think? Is this an issue at all, or a non-issue?
 > > 
 > > *** 
 > > http://www.playahata.com/hatablog/index.php
 > > 
 > > Angelina Jolie is a fair skinned white woman with blue/gray eyes 
 > but in a Mighty Heart she is playing an Afro Cuban/Dutch woman, a 
 > transformation eased with a wig, dark brown contact lenses and her 
 > make-up artist. The cross-racial casting left some upset, with 
 > criticisms ranging from, "It rubs me wrong" to it being a "new 
 > generation of Hollywood in blackface".
 > > Most don't know that Mariane wanted Angelina to play her, asked 
 > her personally, and the two have become good friends. The 
 > HuffingtonPost was 1 of 6 outlets at a 20-minute round table with 
 the 
 > actress, and asked, "Were you nervous playing someone 
 multiracial?" 
 > Angelina fixed her eyes, fiddled with the $15,000 Cartier watch on 
 > her wrist, and answered:
 > > "The idea is, if you ask Mariane, because she did address that, 
 > and if you did actually want to find somebody that was her exact 
 > makeup, she's actually majority Dutch, and she's as black as she 
 is 
 > Chinese, and she's Cuban, and she's French. So, it could have gone 
 to 
 > many different racial backgrounds, probably, if you went technical 
 on 
 > it. And that, you know, is a reality. At the same time, to her, 
 the 
 > importance was the essence of her spiritually, and I think that 
 was 
 > what mattered and I think that is a question to ask her. But no, 
 if 
 > you break down the DNA, it's very complex. 
 > > 
 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 > > 
 > > Yahoo! Groups Links
 > > 
 > > "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels 
 > will get organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt 
 Vonnegut, "A 
 > Man Without A Country"
 > > 
 > > -
 > > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! 
 > Travel. 
 > > 
 > > [

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[tetsuwanatom1]

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Sorry, this is no race issue...No matter how hard you look at 
it...I have to say that what is happening is an overreaction to a 
non-issue...I fail to see any malice implied by by Joilie's 
portrayal of the role...

I don't know that anyone is implying "malice." No one is calling AJ 
a "racist." I haven't seen that. You haven't even articulated a 
reason why you think this isn't a race issue.

Well, I guess you'll be fine with Shatner starring in "The 
Astromancer Story." Cool?  -fin

> 
> tetsuwanatom1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  --- In 
scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for your opinion...When you can give me a LOGICAL 
comeback, 
> I'll change my position...
> 
> Is someone trying to change your opinion? I didn't realize. No one 
> has to "make" this a race issue, it already is by virtue of what's 
> happening. You're free not to care, you asked "why" someone 
should, 
> and I answered. You asked why can't someone enjoy the movie, I 
can't 
> because it's terrible. 
> 
> For someone who seems to value logic, tell me how the old "why 
don't 
> you make your own movie" is always an answer to questioning 
> Hollywood's movtives regarding race? Ah, you don't like what's 
> happening in Iraq? Why don't you take over the government!! 
See . . .
> > 
> > tetsuwanatom1  wrote: --- In 
> scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin  wrote:
> > >
> > > (standing ovation)
> > > 
> > > Astromancer  wrote: I 
> > can't keep quiet any longer...Why should anyone care??? 
> > 
> > Because of this. 
> > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/foster/sfeature/sf_minstrelsy.html
> > 
> > >Why can't someone just enjoy the damned moved and not make it a 
> race 
> > issue??? 
> > 
> > Because the movie sucks.
> > 
> > >I understand about our exclusion for the media...but sometimes 
> > >enough is enough...I have always felt that if someone has a 
> > complaint about such things, make the movies yourself...
> > 
> > Oh brother. Okay. Give me 300 million and I'll make that sci-
> fantasy 
> > epic featuring one all Black nation.
> > 
> > Saying that there are other things that one could better spend 
> their 
> > time worrying about isn't really an answer. We can have more 
than 
> one 
> > issue on our plate.
> > 
> > Moreover, if AJ's playing Mrs Pearl is okay, what's to stop 
> someone 
> > from deciding it's okay to slap make-up on Hopkins and let him 
> play 
> > MLK? Think they wont?
> > 
> > > 
> > > Martin  wrote: If she's going for 
> > the *soul*, the *why darken her skin*?
> > > 
> > > Please remember- non-sensical ravings...
> > > 
> > > KeithBJohnson@ wrote: Big conversations on an e-mail chain I'm 
> > on, and I suspect, around the country, about Jolie playing Mrs. 
> > Pearl. I'd never seen Mrs. Pearl before I saw her on Charlie 
Rose 
> the 
> > other night, and was surprised to see obvious African heritage 
in 
> > her. Then I finally saw a picture of Jolie as Mrs. Pearl, and 
was 
> > surprised to see she had on makeup to darken her skin. Lots of 
> > Sisters are upset, others say that Mrs. Pearl is *not* majority 
> > Black, and has a right to choose whomever she wants to portray 
> her. 
> > Pearl was going for the soul of the actress, not her skin, is 
the 
> > idea.
> > > 
> > > What do you think? Is this an issue at all, or a non-issue?
> > > 
> > > *** 
> > > http://www.playahata.com/hatablog/index.php
> > > 
> > > Angelina Jolie is a fair skinned white woman with blue/gray 
eyes 
> > but in a Mighty Heart she is playing an Afro Cuban/Dutch woman, 
a 
> > transformation eased with a wig, dark brown contact lenses and 
her 
> > make-up artist. The cross-racial casting left some upset, with 
> > criticisms ranging from, "It rubs me wrong" to it being a "new 
> > generation of Hollywood in blackface".
> > > Most don't know that Mariane wanted Angelina to play her, 
asked 
> > her personally, and the two have become good friends. The 
> > HuffingtonPost was 1 of 6 outlets at a 20-minute round table 
with 
> the 
> > actress, and asked, "Were you nervous playing someone 
> multiracial?" 
> > Angelina fixed her eyes, fiddled with the $15,000 Cartier watch 
on 
> > her wrist, and answered:
> > > "The idea is, if you ask Mariane, because she did address 
that, 
> > and if you did actually want to find somebody that was her exact 
> > makeup, she's actually majority Dutch, and she's as black as she 
> is 
> > Chinese, and she's Cuban, and she's French. So, it could have 
gone 
> to 
> > many different racial backgrounds, probably, if you went 
technical 
> on 
> > it. And that, you know, is a reality. At the same time, to her, 
> the 
> > importance was the essence of her spiritually, and I think that 
> was 
> > what mattered and I think that is a question to ask her. But no, 
> if 
> > you break down the DNA, it's very complex. 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have bee

[scifinoir2] Fishburne to write and direct "The Alchemist"

[Daryle]

[source:  today's hollywood reporter]

Fishburne's 'Alchemist' purpose
By Borys Kit and Tatiana Siegel

June 27, 2007
Laurence Fishburne and A-Mark Entertainment have acquired the film  
rights to the best-selling novel "The Alchemist" from Warner Bros.  
Pictures with the intent of making the movie themselves.

Warners acquired author Paulo Coelho's philosophical book -- about a  
traveler journeying the world during the Inquisition in order to find  
man's purpose in the world -- in 2003 as a Fishburne vehicle. Since  
its debut in 1988, the book has been translated into 56 languages and  
has sold more than 40 million copies in more than 150 countries.

The road to the screen, however, has been almost as arduous as the  
traveler's journey.

Fishburne wrote the screenplay for the film and also is set to  
direct. Barrie Osborne ("The Lord of the Rings") is producing  
alongside "Akeelah and the Bee" producers Fishburne and Helen Sugland.

The filmmakers' take is described as "Harry Potter meets Indiana  
Jones," with a sweeping adventure centering on a young Spaniard who  
embarks on a quest to find a hidden treasure within the Egyptian  
pyramids and ends up discovering a personal treasure that eclipses  
his wildest expectations.

A-Mark Entertainment's Steve Markoff and Bruce McNall are executive  
producing.

Paradigm Motion Picture Finance Group, Osborne and Kathy Morgan  
through her KMI Films are establishing financing for the project  
through a combination of private-equity funding and international  
presales. The big worldwide boxoffice potential for "Alchemist" is  
the impetus for the funding.

A-Mark, an independent finance and production company, this year saw  
the release of its first picture, "Alpha Dog." It also is prepping  
the World War II epic "Dragonfly," a love story set in Japanese - 
occupied Indonesia, and is co-producing Warren Zide's "American  
Summer" and "Autopsy," shooting in New Orleans and Baton Rouge, La.,  
respectively.

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Astromancer]

So what you're saying is because she is white playing a woman who is racially 
mixed with black, it give the movie racial undertones?  You mean like when Lou 
Gossett played the assassinated prime minister of Egypt? (I can't recall his 
name right now) When the made-for-TV movie aired, The family of the slain man 
protested mightily that the part was played by  black man though his skin was 
as dark as Gossett's...If that is your only complaint, that a racially mixed 
person was played by a white woman, it's been done many times already...One 
that comes to mind is Mercury Rising...The Main Character in the book was a 
black man, but in the movie, the character was played by Bruce Willis...If this 
movie is terrible simply because the character was not played by someone of the 
same race, no matter how well they did the role (like Ben Kingsley in Ghandi), 
then the issue is with you, not the movie. Did you not take into consideration 
that the Jolie does bare a striking resemblance to
 the woman? Or, who else would do the part? I think you're dealing with a very 
weak hand. By the way, even though I think William Shatner sucks as a person, 
if he could handle the role of Astromancer, he's got the job...But since he 
bears no resemblance to me at all, I think I'm safe...I'm very sorry that a 
white woman playing the role of a fair-skinned black woman (if she calls 
herself black) rubs you the wrong way, but that is what happened and...have you 
even seen the movie?? I'm willing to bet you haven't, if you have, I guess you 
have your opinion...Do you know if the woman (Pearl) objects to being portrayed 
as a white woman? If not, I don't understand what the problem is...and about 
what I said about writing our own movies? I stand by it because I think it's 
valid...I did think that it was cute you comparing that staement to the 
invasion of Iraqlol...oh, I don't think it was a race issue because because 
nothing racist was done...The darkening of AJ's skin was
 necessary to do the part...I know, they should of hired a black person to play 
her no matter who they plugged in there, right?

tetsuwanatom1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  --- In 
scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Sorry, this is no race issue...No matter how hard you look at 
it...I have to say that what is happening is an overreaction to a 
non-issue...I fail to see any malice implied by by Joilie's 
portrayal of the role...

I don't know that anyone is implying "malice." No one is calling AJ 
a "racist." I haven't seen that. You haven't even articulated a 
reason why you think this isn't a race issue.

Well, I guess you'll be fine with Shatner starring in "The 
Astromancer Story." Cool? -fin

> 
> tetsuwanatom1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In 
scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for your opinion...When you can give me a LOGICAL 
comeback, 
> I'll change my position...
> 
> Is someone trying to change your opinion? I didn't realize. No one 
> has to "make" this a race issue, it already is by virtue of what's 
> happening. You're free not to care, you asked "why" someone 
should, 
> and I answered. You asked why can't someone enjoy the movie, I 
can't 
> because it's terrible. 
> 
> For someone who seems to value logic, tell me how the old "why 
don't 
> you make your own movie" is always an answer to questioning 
> Hollywood's movtives regarding race? Ah, you don't like what's 
> happening in Iraq? Why don't you take over the government!! 
See . . .
> > 
> > tetsuwanatom1  wrote: --- In 
> scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin  wrote:
> > >
> > > (standing ovation)
> > > 
> > > Astromancer  wrote: I 
> > can't keep quiet any longer...Why should anyone care??? 
> > 
> > Because of this. 
> > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/foster/sfeature/sf_minstrelsy.html
> > 
> > >Why can't someone just enjoy the damned moved and not make it a 
> race 
> > issue??? 
> > 
> > Because the movie sucks.
> > 
> > >I understand about our exclusion for the media...but sometimes 
> > >enough is enough...I have always felt that if someone has a 
> > complaint about such things, make the movies yourself...
> > 
> > Oh brother. Okay. Give me 300 million and I'll make that sci-
> fantasy 
> > epic featuring one all Black nation.
> > 
> > Saying that there are other things that one could better spend 
> their 
> > time worrying about isn't really an answer. We can have more 
than 
> one 
> > issue on our plate.
> > 
> > Moreover, if AJ's playing Mrs Pearl is okay, what's to stop 
> someone 
> > from deciding it's okay to slap make-up on Hopkins and let him 
> play 
> > MLK? Think they wont?
> > 
> > > 
> > > Martin  wrote: If she's going for 
> > the *soul*, the *why darken her skin*?
> > > 
> > > Please remember- non-sensical ravings...
> > > 
> > > KeithBJohnson@ wrote: Big conversations on an e-mail chain I'm 
> > on, and I suspect, around the country, about Jolie playing Mrs. 
> > Pearl. I'd never seen Mr

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[tetsuwanatom1]

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So what you're saying is because she is white playing a woman who 
is racially mixed with black, it give the movie racial undertones? 

No. More accurately, it would be because she is a White woman 
playing a real life character who is multi-racial so an issue of 
race arises in regards to the portrayal. The movie itself doesn't 
have "racial undertones" (I'm a critic and I get to see some movies 
for free, to answer your bet below, you lose, not that it would 
matter re: this issue)

>One that comes to mind is Mercury Rising...The Main Character in 
>the book was a black man, but in the movie, the character was 
>played by Bruce Willis...

Which is an entirely different issue, when a novel is changed as it 
is made into a film. White characters in novels end up being played 
by POC and vice versa. In those cases it would only become an issue 
if the change was made so as to side-step some question of race as a 
convenience. 

The matter with "Mighty Heart" is somewhat similar to Hopkins being 
cast in the adaptation of Amis' novel Human Stain. In that 
novel/film, the protagonist is a multi-racial man who was "passing." 
They were able to find Wentworth Miller , a multi-racial man (who 
could "pass"), to play the protagonist as a young man, however, they 
chose Hopkins for reasons of his skill, box office draw, and likely 
because they couldn't find some multiracial man of that age. Also, 
they wanted to play a little game so we would discover 
the "surprise" of the character's background. The movie got a pass 
for those reasons.

With "Heart," Thandie Newton would have been spot on perfect for the 
part. And Hallie Berry, who would have probably been awful in the 
role, still fits. Why, in the 21st century, get a White actress when 
there are plenty of capable, known actresses out there available? 
Because of the ego trips of the people involved? Because 
we're "beyond" race?

>Did you not take into consideration that the Jolie does bare a 
>striking resemblance to
>  the woman? 

Uh, no, I don't think she looks like her one bit. And if the 
filmmakers thought she does bear such a striking resemblance, then 
why the Cleopatra make-up? Shouldn't be necessary, right?

It's getting easier and easier to by-pass the "does he/she look like 
me" bit of your response regarding Shatner. Is that really enough? 
Okay, then when it comes to all icons, it's all fair game then. When 
Hellen Mirren plays Coretta Scott King, I don't want to hear any 
complaints.

>Do you know if the woman (Pearl) objects to being portrayed as a 
>white woman? If not, I don't understand what the problem is..

Of course, who doesn't? It's been part of the PR for the film for 
the last several months. For the record, she doesn't, and claims 
that she *wanted* AJ to play the role since she made friends with 
her. It's just a matter of adultry that AJ is playing the part since 
Brad Pitt originally thought of the role for Jennifer Aniston. The 
role was the gift that kept on giving.

Just because I think something is a good idea for me doesn't mean 
that it is. I might want Pitt to play me in my life story, and if I 
did suffer that madness I would hope someone would step in and 
say, "Dude, doesn't this reek of minstrelsy?"

For Mrs Pearl's part, she seems to confuse nationality and race "I'm 
Cuban and I'm Dutch. Can a Dutch person play me?" 

FW: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[The Village Idiot]

Correction... this is in response to tetsuwanatom1's post and not
Astromancer. 

  _  

From: The Village Idiot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:23 PM
To: 'scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks


tetsuwanatom1's  said:
<>
 
True we can have more than one issue on our plate, but I would hope that
we'd pick our battles more intelligently. In this instance, whining and
acting like spoiled victims isn't going to change anything; the movie's
already been made. If those complaining had wanted to have an impact, they
would have spoken up BEFORE the movie was made - it's not like the movie was
shot in secrecy, was it? 

<>
 
So what if they do? Would that invalidate who MLK was? 
 
I am...
The Village Idiot 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[The Village Idiot]

Sometimes it seems we Black folks just love to get upset for no good reason.
Angelina Jolie is an ACTRESS. Acting is all about playing roles, sometimes
very different from who you are (whether it's Tyler Perry  playing a woman,
or Angelina Jolie playing a person of mixed race background). 

There's got to be better things for people to get upset over than this. 


-Original Message-
From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:20 PM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

Big conversations on an e-mail chain I'm on, and I suspect, around the
country, about Jolie playing Mrs. Pearl. I'd never seen Mrs. Pearl before I
saw her on Charlie Rose the other night, and was surprised to see obvious
African heritage in her. Then I finally saw a picture of Jolie as Mrs.
Pearl, and was surprised to see she had on makeup to darken her skin. Lots
of Sisters are upset, others say that Mrs. Pearl is *not* majority Black,
and has a right to choose whomever she wants to portray her. Pearl was going
for the soul of the actress, not her skin, is the idea.

What do you think? Is this an issue at all, or a non-issue?

 ***
http://www.playahata.com/hatablog/index.php

Angelina Jolie is a fair skinned white woman with blue/gray eyes but in a
Mighty Heart she is playing an Afro Cuban/Dutch woman, a transformation
eased with a wig, dark brown contact lenses and her make-up artist. The
cross-racial casting left some upset, with criticisms ranging from, "It rubs
me wrong" to it being a "new generation of Hollywood in blackface".
Most don't know  that Mariane wanted Angelina to play her, asked her
personally, and the two have become good friends. The HuffingtonPost was 1
of 6 outlets at a 20-minute round table with the actress, and asked, "Were
you nervous playing someone multiracial?" Angelina fixed her eyes, fiddled
with the $15,000 Cartier watch on her wrist, and answered:
"The idea is, if you ask Mariane, because she did address that, and if you
did actually want to find somebody that was her exact makeup, she's actually
majority Dutch, and she's as black as she is Chinese, and she's Cuban, and
she's French. So, it could have gone to many different racial backgrounds,
probably, if you went technical on it. And that, you know, is a reality. At
the same time, to her, the importance was the essence of her spiritually,
and I think that was what mattered and I think that is a question to ask
her. But no, if you break down the DNA, it's very complex. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[The Village Idiot]

Astromancer said:
<>
 
True we can have more than one issue on our plate, but I would hope that
we'd pick our battles more intelligently. In this instance, whining and
acting like spoiled victims isn't going to change anything; the movie's
already been made. If those complaining had wanted to have an impact, they
would have spoken up BEFORE the movie was made - it's not like the movie was
shot in secrecy, was it? 

<>
 
So what if they do? Would that invalidate who MLK was? 
 
I am...
The Village Idiot 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

FW: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[tetsuwanatom1]

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "The Village Idiot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Correction... this is in response to tetsuwanatom1's post and not
> Astromancer. 
> 
>   _  
> 
> From: The Village Idiot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:23 PM
> To: 'scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some 
Blacks
> 
> 
> tetsuwanatom1's  said:
> < worrying about isn't really an answer. We can have more than one 
issue on
> our plate.>>
>  
> True we can have more than one issue on our plate, but I would 
hope that
> we'd pick our battles more intelligently. In this instance, 
whining and
> acting like spoiled victims isn't going to change anything; the 
movie's
> already been made. If those complaining had wanted to have an 
impact, they
> would have spoken up BEFORE the movie was made - it's not like the 
movie was
> shot in secrecy, was it? 

If you take a look (google = friend) there was discussion on the 
issue, even before shooting began. It's only that the film is out 
now so naturally it's going to become a topic again.

Anyway, you're arguing against arguing, not against what is at 
issue. One could ask, what does whining about other people "whining" 
accomplish? If you're fine with it, that's really okay with me. 
We're trying to have a discussion about the issue, why some think 
it's important and why others don't. It's supposed to be something 
on which reasonable people may disagree.

> 
> < deciding it's okay to slap make-up on Hopkins and let him play 
MLK? Think
> they wont?>>
>  
> So what if they do? Would that invalidate who MLK was? 

Would a film about MLK starring Martin Lawrence "invalidate" who he 
was? Could the legacy of a man who already has a bloody national 
holiday be invalidated by anyone portraying him in a movie? It's a 
separate question.

To have someone portray King in blackface would just be a plain slap.

I have no problem with Darrell Hammond's wicked impersonation of 
Jesse Jackson on SNL. He's in brownface, yet it's comedy. It's a 
diss, yet a respectful one. He isn't trying to capture the real 
essence of a leader, it's a caricature. I get that.

When someone does the JFK story with Fishburn in pancake make-up, 
then I might think differently. I'm not holding my breath, though.

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Astromancer]

Okay, you want to play it this way...

tetsuwanatom1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  --- In 
scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So what you're saying is because she is white playing a woman who 
is racially mixed with black, it give the movie racial undertones? 

No. More accurately, it would be because she is a White woman 
playing a real life character who is multi-racial so an issue of 
race arises in regards to the portrayal. The movie itself doesn't 
have "racial undertones" (I'm a critic and I get to see some movies 
for free, to answer your bet below, you lose, not that it would 
matter re: this issue) 
  
>>Listen to you! The woman is multiracial...That being the case, couldn't it go 
>>either way? Jennifer Beals, who is multiracial, has been doing roles written 
>>for white women for years, yet I have not heard ANYONE protest in anger over 
>>that! 
   
>One that comes to mind is Mercury Rising...The Main Character in 
>the book was a black man, but in the movie, the character was 
>played by Bruce Willis...
Which is an entirely different issue, when a novel is changed as it 
is made into a film. White characters in novels end up being played 
by POC and vice versa. In those cases it would only become an issue 
if the change was made so as to side-step some question of race as a 
convenience. 
  >>But it is the SAME type of argument...no one protested
  
The matter with "Mighty Heart" is somewhat similar to Hopkins being 
cast in the adaptation of Amis' novel Human Stain. In that 
novel/film, the protagonist is a multi-racial man who was "passing." 
They were able to find Wentworth Miller , a multi-racial man (who 
could "pass"), to play the protagonist as a young man, however, they 
chose Hopkins for reasons of his skill, box office draw, and likely 
because they couldn't find some multiracial man of that age. Also, 
they wanted to play a little game so we would discover 
the "surprise" of the character's background. The movie got a pass 
for those reasons. 

With "Heart," Thandie Newton would have been spot on perfect for the 
part. And Hallie Berry, who would have probably been awful in the 
role, still fits. Why, in the 21st century, get a White actress when 
there are plenty of capable, known actresses out there available? 
Because of the ego trips of the people involved? Because 
we're "beyond" race?
  The capable actor got the role...other factor may have been involved, but no 
complaints on the level that you seem to think exist here...

>Did you not take into consideration that the Jolie does bare a 
>striking resemblance to
> the woman? 

Uh, no, I don't think she looks like her one bit. 
  >>That is your opinion...and I don't see any other black actress who could do 
better...and, as usual, you discount the approval of  the author, to my 
knowledge, has no objections...
  And if the 
filmmakers thought she does bear such a striking resemblance, then 
why the Cleopatra make-up? Shouldn't be necessary, right?
  >>No...I have not heard one complaint about the many white actors who have 
played Othello either...

It's getting easier and easier to by-pass the "does he/she look like 
me" bit of your response regarding Shatner. Is that really enough? 
Okay, then when it comes to all icons, it's all fair game then. When 
Hellen Mirren plays Coretta Scott King, I don't want to hear any 
complaints.
  >>When it happens (I can't belive I am responding to this), MAYBE I'll take 
issue with it...Have taken into consideration just how rediculous you sound? We 
are talking about believeability...Okay, you don't feel that AJ fits the role, 
but the only objection you have is that she used makeup to resemble her 
character, a practice many acter, both black and white have been doing since 
theatre has existed...

>Do you know if the woman (Pearl) objects to being portrayed as a 
>white woman? If not, I don't understand what the problem is..

Of course, who doesn't? It's been part of the PR for the film for 
the last several months. For the record, she doesn't, and claims 
that she *wanted* AJ to play the role since she made friends with 
her. It's just a matter of adultry that AJ is playing the part since 
Brad Pitt originally thought of the role for Jennifer Aniston. The 
role was the gift that kept on giving.
  >>Oh brother...I rest my case...

Just because I think something is a good idea for me doesn't mean 
that it is. I might want Pitt to play me in my life story, and if I 
did suffer that madness I would hope someone would step in and 
say, "Dude, doesn't this reek of minstrelsy?"
  >>Uh, no??

For Mrs Pearl's part, she seems to confuse nationality and race "I'm 
Cuban and I'm Dutch. Can a Dutch person play me?" 
  (lol) Yes they could...with the proper makeup...



 


"Let’s just saying you know more than you think, but we’re not going to help 
you figure it out." - The Side Street Chonicles by C.W. Badie
   
-

RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Astromancer]

Please...don't get her started again...On my part, I submit to your sense of 
reasoning...

The Village Idiot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Sometimes it seems we 
Black folks just love to get upset for no good reason.
Angelina Jolie is an ACTRESS. Acting is all about playing roles, sometimes
very different from who you are (whether it's Tyler Perry playing a woman,
or Angelina Jolie playing a person of mixed race background). 

There's got to be better things for people to get upset over than this. 

-Original Message-
From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:20 PM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

Big conversations on an e-mail chain I'm on, and I suspect, around the
country, about Jolie playing Mrs. Pearl. I'd never seen Mrs. Pearl before I
saw her on Charlie Rose the other night, and was surprised to see obvious
African heritage in her. Then I finally saw a picture of Jolie as Mrs.
Pearl, and was surprised to see she had on makeup to darken her skin. Lots
of Sisters are upset, others say that Mrs. Pearl is *not* majority Black,
and has a right to choose whomever she wants to portray her. Pearl was going
for the soul of the actress, not her skin, is the idea.

What do you think? Is this an issue at all, or a non-issue?

*** 
http://www.playahata.com/hatablog/index.php

Angelina Jolie is a fair skinned white woman with blue/gray eyes but in a
Mighty Heart she is playing an Afro Cuban/Dutch woman, a transformation
eased with a wig, dark brown contact lenses and her make-up artist. The
cross-racial casting left some upset, with criticisms ranging from, "It rubs
me wrong" to it being a "new generation of Hollywood in blackface".
Most don't know that Mariane wanted Angelina to play her, asked her
personally, and the two have become good friends. The HuffingtonPost was 1
of 6 outlets at a 20-minute round table with the actress, and asked, "Were
you nervous playing someone multiracial?" Angelina fixed her eyes, fiddled
with the $15,000 Cartier watch on her wrist, and answered:
"The idea is, if you ask Mariane, because she did address that, and if you
did actually want to find somebody that was her exact makeup, she's actually
majority Dutch, and she's as black as she is Chinese, and she's Cuban, and
she's French. So, it could have gone to many different racial backgrounds,
probably, if you went technical on it. And that, you know, is a reality. At
the same time, to her, the importance was the essence of her spiritually,
and I think that was what mattered and I think that is a question to ask
her. But no, if you break down the DNA, it's very complex. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


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you figure it out." - The Side Street Chonicles by C.W. Badie
 
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RE: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Astromancer]

Brilliant! Well-said, only it was the other person who said that, not Astro...

The Village Idiot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Astromancer said:
<>

True we can have more than one issue on our plate, but I would hope that
we'd pick our battles more intelligently. In this instance, whining and
acting like spoiled victims isn't going to change anything; the movie's
already been made. If those complaining had wanted to have an impact, they
would have spoken up BEFORE the movie was made - it's not like the movie was
shot in secrecy, was it? 

<>

So what if they do? Would that invalidate who MLK was? 

I am...
The Village Idiot 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


"Let’s just saying you know more than you think, but we’re not going to help 
you figure it out." - The Side Street Chonicles by C.W. Badie
 
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Re: FW: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Astromancer]

Thank you, sir...

The Village Idiot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Correction... this is in 
response to tetsuwanatom1's post and not
Astromancer. 

_ 

From: The Village Idiot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:23 PM
To: 'scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

tetsuwanatom1's said:
<>

True we can have more than one issue on our plate, but I would hope that
we'd pick our battles more intelligently. In this instance, whining and
acting like spoiled victims isn't going to change anything; the movie's
already been made. If those complaining had wanted to have an impact, they
would have spoken up BEFORE the movie was made - it's not like the movie was
shot in secrecy, was it? 

<>

So what if they do? Would that invalidate who MLK was? 

I am...
The Village Idiot 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


"Let’s just saying you know more than you think, but we’re not going to help 
you figure it out." - The Side Street Chonicles by C.W. Badie
   
-
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Daryle]

well, I wouldn't call it a non-issue. The issue is white  
supremacy, and that's always the issue. Sophie Okonedo could have  
played this role with ease, she even LOOKS more like the woman  
everyone's talking about than Angelina does. Brad pulled a Robert  
Evans, put his girl on, and his girl happens to be white. NO amount  
of African children they adopt is going to make her not white. We  
simply don't live in the world that allows for artistic decisions  
like this to be made without someone raising an eyebrow.  It's  
healthy  to  raise an eyebrow.  But once you  raise the brow,  know  
that  the producer of the film is sleeping with the actress in  
question, then shrug and say "that's Hollywood."

That being  said, it's clear to me tetsu is probably correct,  and  
that this movie sucks.  Because history tells us that when a project  
sucks,  and it still has to make money...find a controversy that will  
keep it being  discussed. This way,  when everybody has seen Die  
Hard, Sicko, and Transformers, and there's nothing else to see, they  
will choose this film over American Gangster. I  expect to  see  
"controversial"  on the DVD box when it  comes out. But again...the  
"controversy" here is that  the point of the story ...the man who was  
killed covering this war, should still  be alive, because we  
shouldn't even BE there.


On Jun 26, 2007, at 10:58 PM, Astromancer wrote:

> Sorry, this is no race issue...No matter how hard you look at  
> it...I have to say that what is happening is an overreaction to a  
> non-issue...I fail to see any malice implied by by Joilie's  
> portrayal of the role...
>
> tetsuwanatom1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In  
> scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for your opinion...When you can give me a LOGICAL comeback,
> I'll change my position...
>
> Is someone trying to change your opinion? I didn't realize. No one
> has to "make" this a race issue, it already is by virtue of what's
> happening. You're free not to care, you asked "why" someone should,
> and I answered. You asked why can't someone enjoy the movie, I can't
> because it's terrible.
>
> For someone who seems to value logic, tell me how the old "why don't
> you make your own movie" is always an answer to questioning
> Hollywood's movtives regarding race? Ah, you don't like what's
> happening in Iraq? Why don't you take over the government!! See . . .
> >
> > tetsuwanatom1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In
> scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin  wrote:
> > >
> > > (standing ovation)
> > >
> > > Astromancer  wrote: I
> > can't keep quiet any longer...Why should anyone care???
> >
> > Because of this.
> > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/foster/sfeature/sf_minstrelsy.html
> >
> > >Why can't someone just enjoy the damned moved and not make it a
> race
> > issue???
> >
> > Because the movie sucks.
> >
> > >I understand about our exclusion for the media...but sometimes
> > >enough is enough...I have always felt that if someone has a
> > complaint about such things, make the movies yourself...
> >
> > Oh brother. Okay. Give me 300 million and I'll make that sci-
> fantasy
> > epic featuring one all Black nation.
> >
> > Saying that there are other things that one could better spend
> their
> > time worrying about isn't really an answer. We can have more than
> one
> > issue on our plate.
> >
> > Moreover, if AJ's playing Mrs Pearl is okay, what's to stop
> someone
> > from deciding it's okay to slap make-up on Hopkins and let him
> play
> > MLK? Think they wont?
> >
> > >
> > > Martin  wrote: If she's going for
> > the *soul*, the *why darken her skin*?
> > >
> > > Please remember- non-sensical ravings...
> > >
> > > KeithBJohnson@ wrote: Big conversations on an e-mail chain I'm
> > on, and I suspect, around the country, about Jolie playing Mrs.
> > Pearl. I'd never seen Mrs. Pearl before I saw her on Charlie Rose
> the
> > other night, and was surprised to see obvious African heritage in
> > her. Then I finally saw a picture of Jolie as Mrs. Pearl, and was
> > surprised to see she had on makeup to darken her skin. Lots of
> > Sisters are upset, others say that Mrs. Pearl is *not* majority
> > Black, and has a right to choose whomever she wants to portray
> her.
> > Pearl was going for the soul of the actress, not her skin, is the
> > idea.
> > >
> > > What do you think? Is this an issue at all, or a non-issue?
> > >
> > > ***
> > > http://www.playahata.com/hatablog/index.php
> > >
> > > Angelina Jolie is a fair skinned white woman with blue/gray eyes
> > but in a Mighty Heart she is playing an Afro Cuban/Dutch woman, a
> > transformation eased with a wig, dark brown contact lenses and her
> > make-up artist. The cross-racial casting left some upset, with
> > criticisms ranging from, "It rubs me wrong" to it being a "new
> > generation of Hollywood in blackface".
> > > Most don't know that Mariane wanted Angelina to play her, asked

Re: FW: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Astromancer]

You're right, Kwami...She's made up her mind...she has not really scored any 
valid point as to why AJ was a bad choice...Usually I take such conversations 
out of the group and discuss disagreements privately, but when you attack me 
with insults as a way of berating my opinions, I'll allow it to play out in 
open forum so others can see it for what it is...That is how those who speak 
through their personal prejudices bring question to their objectivity...I can 
only hope no one questions my affinity for my culture, but I have to remain 
objective in order to better service our needs...I will not accept any kind of 
hate, even if it is disguised as protecting the the integrity of who we are as 
a people...Again, this only my opinion...With this, I wash my hands of this 
strain...
   
  Astromancer

tetsuwanatom1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "The Village Idiot" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Correction... this is in response to tetsuwanatom1's post and not
> Astromancer. 
> 
> _ 
> 
> From: The Village Idiot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:23 PM
> To: 'scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some 
Blacks
> 
> 
> tetsuwanatom1's said:
> < worrying about isn't really an answer. We can have more than one 
issue on
> our plate.>>
> 
> True we can have more than one issue on our plate, but I would 
hope that
> we'd pick our battles more intelligently. In this instance, 
whining and
> acting like spoiled victims isn't going to change anything; the 
movie's
> already been made. If those complaining had wanted to have an 
impact, they
> would have spoken up BEFORE the movie was made - it's not like the 
movie was
> shot in secrecy, was it? 

If you take a look (google = friend) there was discussion on the 
issue, even before shooting began. It's only that the film is out 
now so naturally it's going to become a topic again.

Anyway, you're arguing against arguing, not against what is at 
issue. One could ask, what does whining about other people "whining" 
accomplish? If you're fine with it, that's really okay with me. 
We're trying to have a discussion about the issue, why some think 
it's important and why others don't. It's supposed to be something 
on which reasonable people may disagree.

> 
> < deciding it's okay to slap make-up on Hopkins and let him play 
MLK? Think
> they wont?>>
> 
> So what if they do? Would that invalidate who MLK was? 

Would a film about MLK starring Martin Lawrence "invalidate" who he 
was? Could the legacy of a man who already has a bloody national 
holiday be invalidated by anyone portraying him in a movie? It's a 
separate question.

To have someone portray King in blackface would just be a plain slap.

I have no problem with Darrell Hammond's wicked impersonation of 
Jesse Jackson on SNL. He's in brownface, yet it's comedy. It's a 
diss, yet a respectful one. He isn't trying to capture the real 
essence of a leader, it's a caricature. I get that.

When someone does the JFK story with Fishburn in pancake make-up, 
then I might think differently. I'm not holding my breath, though.



 


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you figure it out." - The Side Street Chonicles by C.W. Badie
   
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Martin]

I myself can think of three.

1) The War on Terror (reg., TM, copy.)

2) the lack of affordable health care for all

3) the fact that both FF movies sucked bilge water.

The Village Idiot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  
Sometimes it seems we Black folks just love to get upset for no good reason.
 Angelina Jolie is an ACTRESS. Acting is all about playing roles, sometimes
 very different from who you are (whether it's Tyler Perry  playing a woman,
 or Angelina Jolie playing a person of mixed race background). 
 
 There's got to be better things for people to get upset over than this. 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:20 PM
 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks
 
 Big conversations on an e-mail chain I'm on, and I suspect, around the
 country, about Jolie playing Mrs. Pearl. I'd never seen Mrs. Pearl before I
 saw her on Charlie Rose the other night, and was surprised to see obvious
 African heritage in her. Then I finally saw a picture of Jolie as Mrs.
 Pearl, and was surprised to see she had on makeup to darken her skin. Lots
 of Sisters are upset, others say that Mrs. Pearl is *not* majority Black,
 and has a right to choose whomever she wants to portray her. Pearl was going
 for the soul of the actress, not her skin, is the idea.
 
 What do you think? Is this an issue at all, or a non-issue?
 
 ***
 http://www.playahata.com/hatablog/index.php
 
 Angelina Jolie is a fair skinned white woman with blue/gray eyes but in a
 Mighty Heart she is playing an Afro Cuban/Dutch woman, a transformation
 eased with a wig, dark brown contact lenses and her make-up artist. The
 cross-racial casting left some upset, with criticisms ranging from, "It rubs
 me wrong" to it being a "new generation of Hollywood in blackface".
 Most don't know  that Mariane wanted Angelina to play her, asked her
 personally, and the two have become good friends. The HuffingtonPost was 1
 of 6 outlets at a 20-minute round table with the actress, and asked, "Were
 you nervous playing someone multiracial?" Angelina fixed her eyes, fiddled
 with the $15,000 Cartier watch on her wrist, and answered:
 "The idea is, if you ask Mariane, because she did address that, and if you
 did actually want to find somebody that was her exact makeup, she's actually
 majority Dutch, and she's as black as she is Chinese, and she's Cuban, and
 she's French. So, it could have gone to many different racial backgrounds,
 probably, if you went technical on it. And that, you know, is a reality. At
 the same time, to her, the importance was the essence of her spiritually,
 and I think that was what mattered and I think that is a question to ask
 her. But no, if you break down the DNA, it's very complex. 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


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Country"
   
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[tetsuwanatom1]

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Okay, you want to play it this way...
> 
??? Oh brother.

> >>Listen to you! The woman is multiracial...That being the case, 
couldn't it go either way? Jennifer Beals, who is multiracial, has 
been doing roles written for white women for years, yet I have not 
heard ANYONE protest in anger over that! 

This is not a role "written for" a White woman. Last I checked, Mrs 
Pearl is an actual person.

>

>   >>But it is the SAME type of argument...no one protested

Type of argument? Split hairs much?


>   The capable actor got the role...other factor may have been 
involved, but no complaints on the level that you seem to think 
exist here...

HA! The "capable actor" is married to the producer! lol


> 
> >Did you not take into consideration that the Jolie does bare a 
> >striking resemblance to
> > the woman? 
> 
> Uh, no, I don't think she looks like her one bit. 
>   >>That is your opinion...and I don't see any other black actress 
who could do better...and, as usual, you discount the approval of  
the author, to my knowledge, has no objections...

As usual? You don't know me well enough to make that statement. 
Also, I mentioned Thandie Newton who is a much better actress than 
AJ. I guess you missed the part where I spelled out Mrs. Pearl's 
position.

>   >>No...I have not heard one complaint about the many white 
actors who have played Othello either...

You haven't really been listening. Or watching Othello. Generally, 
people give the bard a pass because they just weren't hiring Black 
actors PERIOD. Now though, I've seen the play a couple of times with 
a Black male in the role, and Fish in the movie, etc. People have 
complained, though. And, appropriate to the group, does anyone 
remember that Patrick Stewart played Othello in DC? Does anyone 
remember that he simply played the role as a White man instead 
of "the Moor?"


> Just because I think something is a good idea for me doesn't mean 
> that it is. I might want Pitt to play me in my life story, and if 
I 
> did suffer that madness I would hope someone would step in and 
> say, "Dude, doesn't this reek of minstrelsy?"
>   >>Uh, no??
> 
> For Mrs Pearl's part, she seems to confuse nationality and 
race "I'm 
> Cuban and I'm Dutch. Can a Dutch person play me?" 
>   (lol) Yes they could...with the proper makeup...

Huh? You do know that there are a great many people of color in the 
Netherlands, they aren't all White you know, like their great many 
soccer stars who have ancestry in Suriname? This was my point, that 
there are people of color who are "Dutch" but aren't White. Sorry I 
assumed that you would know this.

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[tetsuwanatom1]

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Please...don't get her started again...On my part, I submit to your 
sense of reasoning...
>
Her? Oh please.

FW: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[tetsuwanatom1]

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> (etc. snipped)
Man, no one was trying to insult you, no one is accusing you of being 
some kind of sellout. I seriously hope you're not going to try pin 
some kind of "hate Whitey" rap on me either. We're supposed to be 
having a discussion on a topic. If anyone was berating opinions, it's 
the whole line of insinuating that it's stupid to feel that AJ 
shouldn't have been cast in the role.


>

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[tetsuwanatom1]

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> well, I wouldn't call it a non-issue. The issue is white  
> supremacy, and that's always the issue. Sophie Okonedo could have  
> played this role with ease, she even LOOKS more like the woman  
> everyone's talking about than Angelina does. 

How in the world did I forget about Sophie . . . the shame of myself.

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Daryle]

Okay, you  had me on 1 and 2, but as for 3,  I have to  ask...what  
were you going to these movies expecting, exactly? The fine acting  
talents of Michael Chiklis and Jessica Alba?  I submit that you went  
to see the suits, Ben Grimm, and Fantasticar, just like the rest of  
us. The first one was rated PG and the second, PG-13. I'd actually  
say that  Silver Surfer was better than Spider Man 3. Not Spider Man  
2, mind you, hard to  beat that, but I think, better than 3.

Daryle

On Jun 27, 2007, at 3:23 PM, Martin wrote:

> I myself can think of three.
>
> 1) The War on Terror (reg., TM, copy.)
>
> 2) the lack of affordable health care for all
>
> 3) the fact that both FF movies sucked bilge water.
>
> The Village Idiot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sometimes it seems we  
> Black folks just love to get upset for no good reason.
> Angelina Jolie is an ACTRESS. Acting is all about playing roles,  
> sometimes
> very different from who you are (whether it's Tyler Perry playing a  
> woman,
> or Angelina Jolie playing a person of mixed race background).
>
> There's got to be better things for people to get upset over than  
> this.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com  
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:20 PM
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks
>
> Big conversations on an e-mail chain I'm on, and I suspect, around the
> country, about Jolie playing Mrs. Pearl. I'd never seen Mrs. Pearl  
> before I
> saw her on Charlie Rose the other night, and was surprised to see  
> obvious
> African heritage in her. Then I finally saw a picture of Jolie as Mrs.
> Pearl, and was surprised to see she had on makeup to darken her  
> skin. Lots
> of Sisters are upset, others say that Mrs. Pearl is *not* majority  
> Black,
> and has a right to choose whomever she wants to portray her. Pearl  
> was going
> for the soul of the actress, not her skin, is the idea.
>
> What do you think? Is this an issue at all, or a non-issue?
>
> ***
> http://www.playahata.com/hatablog/index.php
>
> Angelina Jolie is a fair skinned white woman with blue/gray eyes  
> but in a
> Mighty Heart she is playing an Afro Cuban/Dutch woman, a  
> transformation
> eased with a wig, dark brown contact lenses and her make-up artist.  
> The
> cross-racial casting left some upset, with criticisms ranging from,  
> "It rubs
> me wrong" to it being a "new generation of Hollywood in blackface".
> Most don't know that Mariane wanted Angelina to play her, asked her
> personally, and the two have become good friends. The  
> HuffingtonPost was 1
> of 6 outlets at a 20-minute round table with the actress, and  
> asked, "Were
> you nervous playing someone multiracial?" Angelina fixed her eyes,  
> fiddled
> with the $15,000 Cartier watch on her wrist, and answered:
> "The idea is, if you ask Mariane, because she did address that, and  
> if you
> did actually want to find somebody that was her exact makeup, she's  
> actually
> majority Dutch, and she's as black as she is Chinese, and she's  
> Cuban, and
> she's French. So, it could have gone to many different racial  
> backgrounds,
> probably, if you went technical on it. And that, you know, is a  
> reality. At
> the same time, to her, the importance was the essence of her  
> spiritually,
> and I think that was what mattered and I think that is a question  
> to ask
> her. But no, if you break down the DNA, it's very complex.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels  
> will get organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut,  
> "A Man Without A Country"
>
> -
> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your  
> story.
> Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[yinka oyekunle]

me 2... she's stunningly beautiful & definitely has
the acting ability
--- tetsuwanatom1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Daryle
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > well, I wouldn't call it a non-issue. The
> issue is white  
> > supremacy, and that's always the issue. Sophie
> Okonedo could have  
> > played this role with ease, she even LOOKS more
> like the woman  
> > everyone's talking about than Angelina does. 
> 
> How in the world did I forget about Sophie . . . the
> shame of myself.
> 
> 


   

Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! 
FareChase.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Martin]

They told me in Catholic preschool that I always needed to have hope...

Seriously, I went for no other reason than to know how bad movies are done. 
When the first one loomed on the horizon, I knew that horrible things were 
afoot.

Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Okay, you  
had me on 1 and 2, but as for 3,  I have to  ask...what  
 were you going to these movies expecting, exactly? The fine acting  
 talents of Michael Chiklis and Jessica Alba?  I submit that you went  
 to see the suits, Ben Grimm, and Fantasticar, just like the rest of  
 us. The first one was rated PG and the second, PG-13. I'd actually  
 say that  Silver Surfer was better than Spider Man 3. Not Spider Man  
 2, mind you, hard to  beat that, but I think, better than 3.
 
 Daryle
 
 On Jun 27, 2007, at 3:23 PM, Martin wrote:
 
 > I myself can think of three.
 >
 > 1) The War on Terror (reg., TM, copy.)
 >
 > 2) the lack of affordable health care for all
 >
 > 3) the fact that both FF movies sucked bilge water.
 >
 > The Village Idiot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sometimes it seems we  
 > Black folks just love to get upset for no good reason.
 > Angelina Jolie is an ACTRESS. Acting is all about playing roles,  
 > sometimes
 > very different from who you are (whether it's Tyler Perry playing a  
 > woman,
 > or Angelina Jolie playing a person of mixed race background).
 >
 > There's got to be better things for people to get upset over than  
 > this.
 >
 > -Original Message-
 > From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com  
 > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 > Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:20 PM
 > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
 > Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks
 >
 > Big conversations on an e-mail chain I'm on, and I suspect, around the
 > country, about Jolie playing Mrs. Pearl. I'd never seen Mrs. Pearl  
 > before I
 > saw her on Charlie Rose the other night, and was surprised to see  
 > obvious
 > African heritage in her. Then I finally saw a picture of Jolie as Mrs.
 > Pearl, and was surprised to see she had on makeup to darken her  
 > skin. Lots
 > of Sisters are upset, others say that Mrs. Pearl is *not* majority  
 > Black,
 > and has a right to choose whomever she wants to portray her. Pearl  
 > was going
 > for the soul of the actress, not her skin, is the idea.
 >
 > What do you think? Is this an issue at all, or a non-issue?
 >
 > ***
 > http://www.playahata.com/hatablog/index.php
 >
 > Angelina Jolie is a fair skinned white woman with blue/gray eyes  
 > but in a
 > Mighty Heart she is playing an Afro Cuban/Dutch woman, a  
 > transformation
 > eased with a wig, dark brown contact lenses and her make-up artist.  
 > The
 > cross-racial casting left some upset, with criticisms ranging from,  
 > "It rubs
 > me wrong" to it being a "new generation of Hollywood in blackface".
 > Most don't know that Mariane wanted Angelina to play her, asked her
 > personally, and the two have become good friends. The  
 > HuffingtonPost was 1
 > of 6 outlets at a 20-minute round table with the actress, and  
 > asked, "Were
 > you nervous playing someone multiracial?" Angelina fixed her eyes,  
 > fiddled
 > with the $15,000 Cartier watch on her wrist, and answered:
 > "The idea is, if you ask Mariane, because she did address that, and  
 > if you
 > did actually want to find somebody that was her exact makeup, she's  
 > actually
 > majority Dutch, and she's as black as she is Chinese, and she's  
 > Cuban, and
 > she's French. So, it could have gone to many different racial  
 > backgrounds,
 > probably, if you went technical on it. And that, you know, is a  
 > reality. At
 > the same time, to her, the importance was the essence of her  
 > spiritually,
 > and I think that was what mattered and I think that is a question  
 > to ask
 > her. But no, if you break down the DNA, it's very complex.
 >
 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels  
 > will get organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut,  
 > "A Man Without A Country"
 >
 > -
 > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your  
 > story.
 > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
 >
 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 >
 >
 > 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware 
protection. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Martin]

tetsuwanantom, you just proved the old adage that you're never too old to 
learn. I had no idea that Beals was multiracial.

tetsuwanatom1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  --- 
In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 >
 > Okay, you want to play it this way...
 > 
 ??? Oh brother.
 
 > >>Listen to you! The woman is multiracial...That being the case, 
 couldn't it go either way? Jennifer Beals, who is multiracial, has 
 been doing roles written for white women for years, yet I have not 
 heard ANYONE protest in anger over that! 
 
 This is not a role "written for" a White woman. Last I checked, Mrs 
 Pearl is an actual person.
 
 >
 
 >   >>But it is the SAME type of argument...no one protested
 
 Type of argument? Split hairs much?
 
 >   The capable actor got the role...other factor may have been 
 involved, but no complaints on the level that you seem to think 
 exist here...
 
 HA! The "capable actor" is married to the producer! lol
 
 > 
 > >Did you not take into consideration that the Jolie does bare a 
 > >striking resemblance to
 > > the woman? 
 > 
 > Uh, no, I don't think she looks like her one bit. 
 >   >>That is your opinion...and I don't see any other black actress 
 who could do better...and, as usual, you discount the approval of  
 the author, to my knowledge, has no objections...
 
 As usual? You don't know me well enough to make that statement. 
 Also, I mentioned Thandie Newton who is a much better actress than 
 AJ. I guess you missed the part where I spelled out Mrs. Pearl's 
 position.
 
 >   >>No...I have not heard one complaint about the many white 
 actors who have played Othello either...
 
 You haven't really been listening. Or watching Othello. Generally, 
 people give the bard a pass because they just weren't hiring Black 
 actors PERIOD. Now though, I've seen the play a couple of times with 
 a Black male in the role, and Fish in the movie, etc. People have 
 complained, though. And, appropriate to the group, does anyone 
 remember that Patrick Stewart played Othello in DC? Does anyone 
 remember that he simply played the role as a White man instead 
 of "the Moor?"
 
 > Just because I think something is a good idea for me doesn't mean 
 > that it is. I might want Pitt to play me in my life story, and if 
 I 
 > did suffer that madness I would hope someone would step in and 
 > say, "Dude, doesn't this reek of minstrelsy?"
 >   >>Uh, no??
 > 
 > For Mrs Pearl's part, she seems to confuse nationality and 
 race "I'm 
 > Cuban and I'm Dutch. Can a Dutch person play me?" 
 >   (lol) Yes they could...with the proper makeup...
 
 Huh? You do know that there are a great many people of color in the 
 Netherlands, they aren't all White you know, like their great many 
 soccer stars who have ancestry in Suriname? This was my point, that 
 there are people of color who are "Dutch" but aren't White. Sorry I 
 assumed that you would know this.
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[The Village Idiot]

tetsuwanatom1 said:
<>
 
Nice try... but, my point wasn't about other people whining. I have no doubt
you'll figure that out, eventually.
 
<>
 
No way! I never would have suspected it... what was I smoking last night? 
 
<>
 
Correct me if I misunderstood you... but are you saying you think it's
important for Black people to be upset with AJ playing a biracial woman
because it could segue into white guys portraying King in Blackface someday?
I think you resort to stoking emotional fires at the expense of logic when
your argument becomes intellectually untenable. 
 
I am...
The Village Idiot


  _  

From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tetsuwanatom1
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 2:23 PM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: FW: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks



--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ups.com,
"The Village Idiot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Correction... this is in response to tetsuwanatom1's post and not
> Astromancer. 
> 
> _ 
> 
> From: The Village Idiot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:23 PM
> To: 'scifinoir2@  yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some 
Blacks
> 
> 
> tetsuwanatom1's said:
> < worrying about isn't really an answer. We can have more than one 
issue on
> our plate.>>
> 
> True we can have more than one issue on our plate, but I would 
hope that
> we'd pick our battles more intelligently. In this instance, 
whining and
> acting like spoiled victims isn't going to change anything; the 
movie's
> already been made. If those complaining had wanted to have an 
impact, they
> would have spoken up BEFORE the movie was made - it's not like the 
movie was
> shot in secrecy, was it? 

If you take a look (google = friend) there was discussion on the 
issue, even before shooting began. It's only that the film is out 
now so naturally it's going to become a topic again.

Anyway, you're arguing against arguing, not against what is at 
issue. One could ask, what does whining about other people "whining" 
accomplish? If you're fine with it, that's really okay with me. 
We're trying to have a discussion about the issue, why some think 
it's important and why others don't. It's supposed to be something 
on which reasonable people may disagree.

> 
> < deciding it's okay to slap make-up on Hopkins and let him play 
MLK? Think
> they wont?>>
> 
> So what if they do? Would that invalidate who MLK was? 

Would a film about MLK starring Martin Lawrence "invalidate" who he 
was? Could the legacy of a man who already has a bloody national 
holiday be invalidated by anyone portraying him in a movie? It's a 
separate question.

To have someone portray King in blackface would just be a plain slap.

I have no problem with Darrell Hammond's wicked impersonation of 
Jesse Jackson on SNL. He's in brownface, yet it's comedy. It's a 
diss, yet a respectful one. He isn't trying to capture the real 
essence of a leader, it's a caricature. I get that.

When someone does the JFK story with Fishburn in pancake make-up, 
then I might think differently. I'm not holding my breath, though.



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[The Village Idiot]

 I can just see it the future of casting... Anyone can just call a movie
studio and suggest their personal favorite actor/actress to cast - and just
like that problem solved. 
 "Hello movie studio...I heard you're casting for the MLK movie.  is the bomb, did I mention they are bi-racial too?".

 
Now, I know we're on a Sci-fi list, but we don't have to take the FICTION
part so literally on every issue.

  _  

From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tetsuwanatom1
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:57 PM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks



--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ups.com,
Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> well, I wouldn't call it a non-issue. The issue is white 
> supremacy, and that's always the issue. Sophie Okonedo could have 
> played this role with ease, she even LOOKS more like the woman 
> everyone's talking about than Angelina does. 

How in the world did I forget about Sophie . . . the shame of myself.



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[tetsuwanatom1]

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "The Village Idiot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> tetsuwanatom1 said:
> < could ask, what does whining about other people "whining" 
accomplish? If
> you're fine with it, that's really okay with me.>>
>  
> Nice try... but, my point wasn't about other people whining. I 
have no doubt
> you'll figure that out, eventually.

Your point is about nothing else but other people whining when it's 
observed correctly. One hears it often enough in other contexts. Why 
are *you people* always whining and complaining about _? It 
isnt' going to change anything. The rest, the stuff asking why 
hadn't people already spoken up is moot since people had.

>  
> Correct me if I misunderstood you... but are you saying you think 
it's
> important for Black people to be upset with AJ playing a biracial 
woman
> because it could segue into white guys portraying King in 
Blackface someday?

No, you didn't misunderstand, just misrepresented. However, to 
answer you, of course not, Village Straw Man. Not even a "nice try."

RE: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[The Village Idiot]

So why don't you go ahead and tell me your argument against casting AJ, and
please explain it to me like a six year old so I won't misunderstand this
time around. LOL...
 
 

  _  

From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tetsuwanatom1
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 5:14 PM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks



--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ups.com,
"The Village Idiot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> tetsuwanatom1 said:
> < could ask, what does whining about other people "whining" 
accomplish? If
> you're fine with it, that's really okay with me.>>
> 
> Nice try... but, my point wasn't about other people whining. I 
have no doubt
> you'll figure that out, eventually.

Your point is about nothing else but other people whining when it's 
observed correctly. One hears it often enough in other contexts. Why 
are *you people* always whining and complaining about _? It 
isnt' going to change anything. The rest, the stuff asking why 
hadn't people already spoken up is moot since people had.

> 
> Correct me if I misunderstood you... but are you saying you think 
it's
> important for Black people to be upset with AJ playing a biracial 
woman
> because it could segue into white guys portraying King in 
Blackface someday?

No, you didn't misunderstand, just misrepresented. However, to 
answer you, of course not, Village Straw Man. Not even a "nice try."



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[The Village Idiot]

Daryle said:
<>

Aren't you feeding into that very same white supremacy by espousing the
racial classifications it created and promoted for? 

<>

Do people have to look a lot like the real life characters to play the part?
Question... Would you cast a very dark-skinned, but talented African actress
from playing this role? Why or why not?

<>

I doubt that she is trying to become "not white". But I dare say those
African kids have a better life because she adopted them, which to me is
what matters the most.

I am...
The Village Idiot



-Original Message-
From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Daryle
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 10:25 AM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

well, I wouldn't call it a non-issue. The issue is white supremacy, and
that's always the issue. Sophie Okonedo could have played this role with
ease, she even LOOKS more like the woman everyone's talking about than
Angelina does. Brad pulled a Robert Evans, put his girl on, and his girl
happens to be white. NO amount of African children they adopt is going to
make her not white. We simply don't live in the world that allows for
artistic decisions like this to be made without someone raising an eyebrow.
It's healthy  to  raise an eyebrow.  But once you  raise the brow,  know
that  the producer of the film is sleeping with the actress in question,
then shrug and say "that's Hollywood."

That being  said, it's clear to me tetsu is probably correct,  and that this
movie sucks.  Because history tells us that when a project sucks,  and it
still has to make money...find a controversy that will keep it being
discussed. This way,  when everybody has seen Die Hard, Sicko, and
Transformers, and there's nothing else to see, they will choose this film
over American Gangster. I  expect to  see "controversial"  on the DVD box
when it  comes out. But again...the "controversy" here is that  the point of
the story ...the man who was killed covering this war, should still  be
alive, because we shouldn't even BE there.


On Jun 26, 2007, at 10:58 PM, Astromancer wrote:

> Sorry, this is no race issue...No matter how hard you look at it...I 
> have to say that what is happening is an overreaction to a 
> non-issue...I fail to see any malice implied by by Joilie's portrayal 
> of the role...
>
> tetsuwanatom1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In 
> scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for your opinion...When you can give me a LOGICAL comeback,
> I'll change my position...
>
> Is someone trying to change your opinion? I didn't realize. No one has 
> to "make" this a race issue, it already is by virtue of what's 
> happening. You're free not to care, you asked "why" someone should, 
> and I answered. You asked why can't someone enjoy the movie, I can't 
> because it's terrible.
>
> For someone who seems to value logic, tell me how the old "why don't 
> you make your own movie" is always an answer to questioning 
> Hollywood's movtives regarding race? Ah, you don't like what's 
> happening in Iraq? Why don't you take over the government!! See . . .
> >
> > tetsuwanatom1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In
> scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin  wrote:
> > >
> > > (standing ovation)
> > >
> > > Astromancer  wrote: I
> > can't keep quiet any longer...Why should anyone care???
> >
> > Because of this.
> > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/foster/sfeature/sf_minstrelsy.html
> >
> > >Why can't someone just enjoy the damned moved and not make it a
> race
> > issue???
> >
> > Because the movie sucks.
> >
> > >I understand about our exclusion for the media...but sometimes 
> > >enough is enough...I have always felt that if someone has a
> > complaint about such things, make the movies yourself...
> >
> > Oh brother. Okay. Give me 300 million and I'll make that sci-
> fantasy
> > epic featuring one all Black nation.
> >
> > Saying that there are other things that one could better spend
> their
> > time worrying about isn't really an answer. We can have more than
> one
> > issue on our plate.
> >
> > Moreover, if AJ's playing Mrs Pearl is okay, what's to stop
> someone
> > from deciding it's okay to slap make-up on Hopkins and let him
> play
> > MLK? Think they wont?
> >
> > >
> > > Martin  wrote: If she's going for
> > the *soul*, the *why darken her skin*?
> > >
> > > Please remember- non-sensical ravings...
> > >
> > > KeithBJohnson@ wrote: Big conversations on an e-mail chain I'm
> > on, and I suspect, around the country, about Jolie playing Mrs.
> > Pearl. I'd never seen Mrs. Pearl before I saw her on Charlie Rose
> the
> > other night, and was surprised to see obvious African heritage in 
> > her. Then I finally saw a picture of Jolie as Mrs. Pearl, and was 
> > surprised to see she had on makeup to darken her skin. Lots of 
> > Sisters are upset, others say that Mrs. Pearl is *not* majority 
> > Black, and has a right

RE: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Martin]

Sliding off the subject to inject an observation, I *really* hope we get debate 
this spirited during election time.

The Village Idiot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  
So why don't you go ahead and tell me your argument against casting AJ, and
 please explain it to me like a six year old so I won't misunderstand this
 time around. LOL...
  
  
 
 _  
 
 From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of tetsuwanatom1
 Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 5:14 PM
 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks
 
 --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ups.com,
 "The Village Idiot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
 wrote:
 >
 > tetsuwanatom1 said:
 > < could ask, what does whining about other people "whining" 
 accomplish? If
 > you're fine with it, that's really okay with me.>>
 > 
 > Nice try... but, my point wasn't about other people whining. I 
 have no doubt
 > you'll figure that out, eventually.
 
 Your point is about nothing else but other people whining when it's 
 observed correctly. One hears it often enough in other contexts. Why 
 are *you people* always whining and complaining about _? It 
 isnt' going to change anything. The rest, the stuff asking why 
 hadn't people already spoken up is moot since people had.
 
 > 
 > Correct me if I misunderstood you... but are you saying you think 
 it's
 > important for Black people to be upset with AJ playing a biracial 
 woman
 > because it could segue into white guys portraying King in 
 Blackface someday?
 
 No, you didn't misunderstand, just misrepresented. However, to 
 answer you, of course not, Village Straw Man. Not even a "nice try."
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
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[scifinoir2] The New SF

[being_marian]

http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,,2112467,00.html
The new sci-fi


Until recently, science fiction and fantasy were things you only went 
to see at the cinema - unless you were a teenage boy. Now, with the 
success of Battlestar Galactica, Lost and Heroes, the major networks 
can't get enough of the stuff. Gareth McLean asks: how did sci-fi 
become so popular, so credible - and even so political? 

Wednesday June 27, 2007
The Guardian 


It's not every day that you hear a justification for suicide bombing 
on an American TV drama - and certainly not one as vigorous and 
heartfelt as this: "I've sent men on suicide missions in two wars 
now, and let me tell you something - it don't make a goddamn 
difference whether they're riding in a Viper or walking out on to a 
parade ground. In the end, they're just as dead. So take your piety 
and your moralising and your high-minded principles and stick them 
some place safe ... I've got a war to fight."
The fact that the character talking is not some swivel-eyed terrorist 
but, in fact, a hero - or, at least, what passes for a hero in this 
TV show's murky, shades-of-grey universe - makes his speech more 
surprising still. In a further do-not-adjust-your-set moment, the 
show in question is Battlestar Galactica. Yes, that Battlestar 
Galactica.

Well, nearly. The reimagined BSG, as it is now known, is light-years 
away from its cheesy late-1970s incarnation starring Dirk Benedict, 
later of The A-Team, and Bonanza's Lorne Greene. The premise is the 
same - the last vestiges of humanity are being pursued by the 
sentient monotheistic robots that they created as labour-saving 
devices - but instead of cheese, there's grime, the harsh realities 
of living hand-to-mouth in space, and some of the sharpest, smartest 
writing on television. Gone is the comforting binary of "humanity 
good, robots bad", and in its place is a universe in which the good 
guys practise torture and recruit suicide bombers, while the bad guys 
are devoutly religious, embarking upon a genocidal war in the belief 
that they are cleansing the universe of corruption.

This is science fiction for the 21st century. What's more, it's sci-
fi about the 21st century. Fans of the genre have long known that 
quality sci-fi and its sister genre fantasy hold up a mirror to the 
times in which they were created, but never before have the TV shows 
involved seemed so resonant or indeed so influential. Science fiction 
has never been more now, fantasy never more real.

Now, even those shows that aren't strictly sci-fi or fantasy are 
heavily indebted to it. Other than Doctor Who, which is about a time-
traveller in a police box, the most talked-about British drama of 
recent years has been Life on Mars, about a time-travelling 
policeman. ITV1 - already home of Primeval, which is about a team of 
scientists tracking prehistoric creatures through rifts in time - is, 
apparently, planning a drama called Lost in Austen, in which a woman 
finds a gateway to the Regency era in her bathroom. Meanwhile, Life 
on Mars producer Kudos is developing Outcasts, for the BBC. It 
follows a band of ne'er-do-wells in the future searching for an 
alternative home to Earth as the planet's prospects look increasingly 
precarious. It has been described as being about "life's big 
imperatives - cheating death, seeking suitable mates and surviving as 
a species". Such is the commissioners' keenness these days on "high-
concept" dramas - which is to say, dramas that borrow devices or 
themes from sci-fi and fantasy - that writers now complain that it is 
difficult to get them interested in anything else.

Among new dramas debuting later this year in America are a remake of 
The Bionic Woman; Journeyman, which has a man travelling in time to 
right wrongs; Pushing Daisies, about a detective who can bring people 
back to life; Babylon Fields, which is about zombies rising in 
contemporary America; Moonlight, about a detective who is also a 
vampire; True Blood, another vampire drama from Six Feet Under 
creator Alan Ball; and The Sarah Connor Chronicles, based on the 
Terminator movies. Of 45 pilots picked up for series by US networks 
for next season, around a quarter are straightforward science fiction 
or fantasy, or influenced by them. The fantastic future is here.

(Before we go any further, as the weary time-traveller might say, sci-
fi probably requires definition. It is, basically, fiction that makes 
imaginative use of scientific knowledge or conjecture. It 
extrapolates about possible futures, based on the present. It's 
speculative fiction. Fantasy, as its name suggests, pertains more to 
the fantastic, the supernatural, the unexplained. So The Matrix is 
sci-fi while Buffy the Vampire Slayer is fantasy. Rod Serling, 
creator of The Twilight Zone, put it thus: "Fantasy is the impossible 
made probable. Science fiction is the improbable made possible.")

This is all something of a reversal of fortune for sci-fi. For a 

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Daryle]

See why  does it always have to  come to this. Nobody is saying any  
of this. *I*, for one, am just saying that Sophie Okonedo would be  
perfect for the role, based on the fact that  she is A). a great   
actress (she did the female lead in a little indie flick called Hotel  
Rwanda, which played in some small markets to pretty good reviews) ,   
and B), similar  in features and stature to the woman we are talking   
about.  Putting Angelina Jolie in this role was as much about her  
acting ability as having Peter Mayhew's acting ability got him the  
Chewbacca role. She was the closest/first one the producer put his  
hands on (literally) who could fit the wig and remember the lines.

Additionally, if I can come up with Sophie's name, and I'm NOT making  
these films, one would imagine that professionals who have been in  
numerous films themselves could have come up with a short list.

She got the role because of who she is.  Who she is is white and  
sleeping with Brad Pitt. This had nothing to do with her acting  
ability, this is the girl who played Lara Croft. Casting based on  
acting ability where  race didn't matter would be casting  Susan  
Sarandon in this role. When James Earl Jones played Malcolm X in the  
first  Muhammad Ali movie, and Mario  Van Peebles played him in the  
Michael Mann film, nobody really blinked. Why? Because both of these  
movies were based on a story  that  people actually care about.   
Nobody's saying Han Solo should have been Richard Pryor.  We're  
saying this movie is probably wack because all anybody is talking  
about is the casting.

On Jun 27, 2007, at 4:58 PM, The Village Idiot wrote:

> I can just see it the future of casting... Anyone can just call a  
> movie
> studio and suggest their personal favorite actor/actress to cast -  
> and just
> like that problem solved.
> "Hello movie studio...I heard you're casting for the MLK movie.  
>  favorite actor/actress> is the bomb, did I mention they are bi- 
> racial too?".
>
> Now, I know we're on a Sci-fi list, but we don't have to take the  
> FICTION
> part so literally on every issue.
>
> _
>
> From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com  
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of tetsuwanatom1
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:57 PM
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
> ups.com,
> Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > well, I wouldn't call it a non-issue. The issue is white
> > supremacy, and that's always the issue. Sophie Okonedo could have
> > played this role with ease, she even LOOKS more like the woman
> > everyone's talking about than Angelina does.
>
> How in the world did I forget about Sophie . . . the shame of myself.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scifinoir2] Dwayne McDuffie writing JLA comic now

[Daryle]

I just got the July Previews and I turned to a page that said "JLA  
Wedding Special #1" and "JLA# 13". I won't ruin the "who's getting  
married" part for those of y'all who haven't been keeping up, because  
these books dome come out until  September, but both books are  
written by Dwayne McDuffie!

This could very well be awesome, folks. I know I will be ordering  
quite a few (guess this would be as good a time as any to reveal that  
I have just opened a comic book store, huh) because Dwayne's take on  
the Justice League in the animated series was so far my favorite.

Daryle

Re: [scifinoir2] Dwayne McDuffie writing JLA comic now

[Martin]

I normally don't do the ordering thing, but I might have to, to beat the rush.

Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  I just got the July Previews and I 
turned to a page that said "JLA 
Wedding Special #1" and "JLA# 13". I won't ruin the "who's getting 
married" part for those of y'all who haven't been keeping up, because 
these books dome come out until September, but both books are 
written by Dwayne McDuffie!

This could very well be awesome, folks. I know I will be ordering 
quite a few (guess this would be as good a time as any to reveal that 
I have just opened a comic book store, huh) because Dwayne's take on 
the Justice League in the animated series was so far my favorite.

Daryle



 


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
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photos & more. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Daryle]

On Jun 27, 2007, at 6:05 PM, The Village Idiot wrote:
> Daryle said:
> <>
>
> Aren't you feeding into that very same white supremacy by espousing  
> the
> racial classifications it created and promoted for?
>

No. I am feeding into white supremacy by conducting this conversation  
in English.

> < LOOKS more
> like the woman everyone's talking about than Angelina does.>>
>
> Do people have to look a lot like the real life characters to play  
> the part?
> Question... Would you cast a very dark-skinned, but talented  
> African actress
> from playing this role? Why or why not?
>
People do not have to look like anything. Which is why Angelina  
darkening her skin for this role is a waste of time. Sophie Okonedo  
could have played this role with ease,  and Brangelina could have  
produced it.  Angie would have gotten the same check.  She thinks  
there's an Oscar nomination in this for her,  and so  she played it  
herself.  As for your second question,  *I* would cast a very dark- 
skinned African actress in a live-action adaptation of Betty and  
Veronica.  *I* would cast Thandie Newton as Mary Jane Watson. This  
isn't really about what  *I*  would cast someone as, this is about  
how the producer's girlfriend got her job. If *I* am being asked to   
cast,  I'm going to  make a project I think I can sell, and if that's  
not a factor, I'm going to make a project that I want to look at.  
This would include attractive African women in leading roles.
> < white.>>
>
> I doubt that she is trying to become "not white".
Which is interesting,  as the highest profile project she's been  
involved in in years has her darkening her skin to play the role.
> But I dare say those
> African kids have a better life because she adopted them, which to  
> me is
> what matters the most.
>
You can doubt,  I can doubt, we can both guess, and be right  or  
wrong or both. That's the great thing about debates like this, we  
don't know, because it's not our project. I have found that people  
tend to try and buy their way into being cultured. They  then try to  
show their enlightenment by making grand public gestures. You can  
speculate all day as to the better life these children may have now  
growing up  being taken care of by a staff, but none of this makes a  
movie where Angelina Jolie is playing Daniel Pearl's wife a good movie.

> I am...
> The Village Idiot
>
> -Original Message-
> From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com  
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Daryle
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 10:25 AM
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some  
> Blacks
>
> well, I wouldn't call it a non-issue. The issue is white  
> supremacy, and
> that's always the issue. Sophie Okonedo could have played this role  
> with
> ease, she even LOOKS more like the woman everyone's talking about than
> Angelina does. Brad pulled a Robert Evans, put his girl on, and his  
> girl
> happens to be white. NO amount of African children they adopt is  
> going to
> make her not white. We simply don't live in the world that allows for
> artistic decisions like this to be made without someone raising an  
> eyebrow.
> It's healthy to raise an eyebrow. But once you raise the brow, know
> that the producer of the film is sleeping with the actress in  
> question,
> then shrug and say "that's Hollywood."
>
> That being said, it's clear to me tetsu is probably correct, and  
> that this
> movie sucks. Because history tells us that when a project sucks,  
> and it
> still has to make money...find a controversy that will keep it being
> discussed. This way, when everybody has seen Die Hard, Sicko, and
> Transformers, and there's nothing else to see, they will choose  
> this film
> over American Gangster. I expect to see "controversial" on the DVD box
> when it comes out. But again...the "controversy" here is that the  
> point of
> the story ...the man who was killed covering this war, should still be
> alive, because we shouldn't even BE there.
>
> On Jun 26, 2007, at 10:58 PM, Astromancer wrote:
>
> > Sorry, this is no race issue...No matter how hard you look at it...I
> > have to say that what is happening is an overreaction to a
> > non-issue...I fail to see any malice implied by by Joilie's  
> portrayal
> > of the role...
> >
> > tetsuwanatom1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In
> > scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for your opinion...When you can give me a LOGICAL comeback,
> > I'll change my position...
> >
> > Is someone trying to change your opinion? I didn't realize. No  
> one has
> > to "make" this a race issue, it already is by virtue of what's
> > happening. You're free not to care, you asked "why" someone should,
> > and I answered. You asked why can't someone enjoy the movie, I can't
> > because it's terrible.
> >
> > For someone who seems to value logic, tell me how the old "why don't
> > you make your ow

[scifinoir2] Re: Dwayne McDuffie writing JLA comic now

[tetsuwanatom1]

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I just got the July Previews and I turned to a page that said "JLA  
> Wedding Special #1" and "JLA# 13". I won't ruin the "who's getting  
> married" part for those of y'all who haven't been keeping up, 
because  
> these books dome come out until  September, but both books are  
> written by Dwayne McDuffie!
> 
> This could very well be awesome, folks. I know I will be ordering  
> quite a few (guess this would be as good a time as any to reveal 
that  
> I have just opened a comic book store, huh)

yeah, it would!

I've been considering selling off part of my collection, I don't know 
if my Kousei-kun is going to be interested... 

 

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[Astromancer]

Whack! Whack! (poor dead horse!)

tetsuwanatom1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  --- In 
scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "The Village Idiot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> tetsuwanatom1 said:
> < could ask, what does whining about other people "whining" 
accomplish? If
> you're fine with it, that's really okay with me.>>
> 
> Nice try... but, my point wasn't about other people whining. I 
have no doubt
> you'll figure that out, eventually.

Your point is about nothing else but other people whining when it's 
observed correctly. One hears it often enough in other contexts. Why 
are *you people* always whining and complaining about _? It 
isnt' going to change anything. The rest, the stuff asking why 
hadn't people already spoken up is moot since people had.

> 
> Correct me if I misunderstood you... but are you saying you think 
it's
> important for Black people to be upset with AJ playing a biracial 
woman
> because it could segue into white guys portraying King in 
Blackface someday?

No, you didn't misunderstand, just misrepresented. However, to 
answer you, of course not, Village Straw Man. Not even a "nice try."



 


"Let’s just saying you know more than you think, but we’re not going to help 
you figure it out." - The Side Street Chonicles by C.W. Badie
 
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 with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

[KeithBJohnson]

good point

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sliding off the subject to inject an observation, I *really* hope we get debate 
this spirited during election time.

The Village Idiot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So why don't you go ahead and tell 
me your argument against casting AJ, and
please explain it to me like a six year old so I won't misunderstand this
time around. LOL...



_ 

From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tetsuwanatom1
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 5:14 PM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Jolie Playing Pearl angers some Blacks

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ups.com,
"The Village Idiot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> tetsuwanatom1 said:
> < could ask, what does whining about other people "whining" 
accomplish? If
> you're fine with it, that's really okay with me.>>
> 
> Nice try... but, my point wasn't about other people whining. I 
have no doubt
> you'll figure that out, eventually.

Your point is about nothing else but other people whining when it's 
observed correctly. One hears it often enough in other contexts. Why 
are *you people* always whining and complaining about _? It 
isnt' going to change anything. The rest, the stuff asking why 
hadn't people already spoken up is moot since people had.

> 
> Correct me if I misunderstood you... but are you saying you think 
it's
> important for Black people to be upset with AJ playing a biracial 
woman
> because it could segue into white guys portraying King in 
Blackface someday?

No, you didn't misunderstand, just misrepresented. However, to 
answer you, of course not, Village Straw Man. Not even a "nice try."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

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Re: [scifinoir2] SciFi Cancelling 'Dresden Files'?

[Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)]

I agree, but it is still sad that Skiffy sabotages its best stuff,
but remains committed to WWF, Reality SciFi and and that Pain in the
Ass Jane.

Tracey


Martin wrote:
>
> Tracey, people who were already fans of Butcher's series pretty much 
> knew that they were screwed in advance by the scheduling. Which is a 
> shame, because it was a lot better than I'd expected it to be, not 
> nearly as clownish or clumsily done as normal first-season shows on 
> Skiffy are. I'd really hate to lose it before it got going.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote: 
> What do they loosely call a "season"? There weren't that many shows, 
> and it has been in reruns in weeks, so how can people be expected to 
> find it and grow attached to it? Also, the original Sunday night 
> airing time doesn't work for a lot of people. Lots of folks I know 
> aren't looking for a supernatural detective show at 9 pm on Sunday nights.
>
> -- Original message --
> From: "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >
>
> > SciFi Channel Could Pull Plug On 'Dresden Files'
> > Network late in making decision
> >
> > By MICHAEL HINMAN
> > Source: SyFy Portal
> > Jun-20-2007
> >
> > The chronicles of Harry Dresden may last just a single season on SciFi
> > Channel.
> >
> > The network was supposed to decide last week whether or not to give 
> "The
> > Dresden Files" a second season, and as time wears on, things are 
> looking
> > a little bleak for the show.
> >
> > "SciFi mostly responds to their own internal marketing studies, several
> > of which they've already done on the show," executive producer Robert
> > Hewitt Wolfe told fans on author Jim Butcher's official Web site. 
> "Their
> > research hasn't said what we've been hoping for, unfortunately."
> >
> > While other show's on SciFi Channel's lineup already have received 
> green
> > lights or not, "Dresden Files" has remained in limbo while the network
> > decides whether its ratings -- some of them following "Battlestar
> > Galactica" on Sunday nights -- are enough to justify a second 
> season. As
> > late as last month, however, Wolfe said he remained optimistic in 
> either
> > a SciFi Channel renewal, or some sort of life for the series after
> > cancellation.
> >
> > "Right now I'm very much hoping SciFi renews the show," Wolfe said. "If
> > they chose not to, I suspect Lionsgate [the show's production company]
> > would at least look into other options, but that's really their thing,
> > not mine. Bottom line for me is that I love the show, and I think SciFi
> > is a great home."
> >
> > "The Dresden Files" premiered last January on the network and stars 
> Paul
> > Blackthorne, Valerie Cruz and Terrence Mann. The series premiere earned
> > a 1.37 household rating, according to Nielsen Media Research, giving it
> > 1.73 million viewers, considered by many analysts a "weak debut" for a
> > new series. At the time, however, it was doing just a bit less than
> > "Battlestar Galactica," which had 1.8 million viewers the same time and
> > a 1.39 household rating.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will 
> get organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man 
> Without A Country"
>
> -
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  



 
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