Re: CSCANSEMA Salve --- VCNO --- progress with eschar
---Original Message--- From: Rowena Date: 12/10/2005 8:22:25 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSCANSEMA Salve --- VCNO --- progress with eschar Yes, please describe it. What is DH's plaster? What salve are you talking about--Cansema? (if Cansema salve, what is your source?) Jill I got the digital camera out to record progress. Got fresh batteries, as they seemed to be dead. Didn't work. Nothing worked. Camera dead. Never mind, got video camera. Recorded four days or so. Video camera now not working. Hah! Cansema salve, yes. From http://www.wholisticanimal.com/ and they get it from http://www.bevanpotter.com/ or http://health.centreforce.com/ who also sell it. Both sell overseas. (From Australia) Plaster is elastoplast on a roll. You just cut off as much as you want. I will describe as best I can. First time I saw it (DH DIH did it himself) it was well and truly covered with salve, and a round portion of the crust had pushed up away from the skin, corresponding to the size of the mole that was there. I cleaned it up, got rid of all the excess crusty salve around the wound, and white and yellow streaks were visible underneath the lid or crust. He had applied far too much, and appled more the next morning - again, unable to see it, as it was on his spine. That night, I had a look at it and saw that the salve-encrusted lid had come away from the cancer. It appeared to have taken the top layer of skin and tumour with it. It was hanging by a tiny thread of skin, but came away as I cleaned up. Cleaned with CS and H2O2. Flesh around wound somewhat red. First time I put vaseline on, next day VCNO. Next day cleaned up with lots of CS and H202. Today looked rather dry, and cracked on top, and rather healed around the edges. No ooze whatsoever. I have put VCNO on the plaster again. I think I will keep using that now until it comes out, then use the healing cream they sent. I have put wedges of cotton wool to try to raise the plaster off the wound slightly, or at least to try to stop the emerging cancer getting squashed back in. Rowena -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCANSEMA Salve --- VCNO --- progress with eschar
I had heard that Cansema salve from Centerforce (via Bevan Potter) would not work, but from description that is not the case. Good work!Jill I am intrigued as to how anyone could state that. Did they have experience, or was this theoretical? Day 10 came, and the scab is still in the flesh, but detached all around, and seems to have shrunk, with the skin on either side pink with the look of fresh skin from under a scab, and a kind of ring of skin edge some millimetres away from the 'crater' edge. As if at one time there had been a scab on it, but there hadn't. Maybe tonight's examination will reveal a detached eschar. At least the digital camera did work last night, so when I get around to downloading pics there may be a reasonable image. As my video camera isn't working, I don't have those images to download at present, but one day. . . It's an older analogue camera, but pretty good. I may send the pics to Bevan Potter's site when I have them ready, if he wants them. I bear in mind what the AlphaOmega site said about gratitude - where then are the other nine? Rowena -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCANSEMA Salve --- VCNO --- progress with eschar
Rowena: They had experience, and there did not seem to be any profit motive, or any other self-serving motive. I don't know why the discrepancy. The bottom line is that the Centreforce Cancema works, and that is very good to hear. You are doing all of us a service by reporting your experience! Jill
Re: CSCANSEMA Salve --- VCNO --- progress with eschar - and THANKS MIKE AND ALL
I have this same thing with mine. The scab isn't black but rather a dark brown, with darker spots in it. It looks just as you describe, Rowena. -Raine Rowena wrote: snip ###Very often the scab can be jet black or has jet black lines in it. The black in the scab is NOT remnant of the salve, but is part of the effect the salve has created in the scab. Thanks for this information. I was puzzled last night as I studied the eschar, as all the salve had dropped off with the top layer of skin. It is probably very dark brown rather than black. The colour effect is as if one is seeing the colour of flesh behind solidified plasma or lymph. snip -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCANSEMA Salve --- VCNO --- progress with eschar
Tonight, Monday, the scab is loose all the way around. Standing a little bit higher than the surrounding flesh. Some redness of the skin. Tiniest fleck of pus. Washed with CS and H2O2 on a cotton bud. That's Day 8. Very pleased. Rowena -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCANSEMA Salve --- VCNO --- progress with eschar
Thank you for the information. I had heard that Cansema salve from Centerforce (via Bevan Potter) would not work, but from description that is not the case. Good work! Jill
Re: CSCANSEMA Salve --- VCNO --- progress with eschar - and THANKS MIKE AND ALL
Elastoplast: AND also is mostly *air-tight* -- It is open at either end; the last couple of days I have put cotton wool at either end to try to raise the surface of the dressing a little above the eschar. I am concerned about squashing or rubbing of the eschar, especially as the top layer of skin came off with the crust of salve. I am very interested in what you say about the importance of keeping it dry and open to the air. It is at waist band level, so would not be very open anyway, and I do want to protect it. Maybe a cloth dressing with just strips of adhesive tape to keep it in place would be better? I note that the info on the old alpha omega site recommends sponge baths above showers during the process. ###Very often the scab can be jet black or has jet black lines in it. The black in the scab is NOT remnant of the salve, but is part of the effect the salve has created in the scab. Thanks for this information. I was puzzled last night as I studied the eschar, as all the salve had dropped off with the top layer of skin. It is probably very dark brown rather than black. The colour effect is as if one is seeing the colour of flesh behind solidified plasma or lymph. ... He had applied far too much, ... ###This is a common mistake (sad to say), and can cause much pain The amazing thing is that he not only has had no pain, but no sensation whatsoever - no tingling, no pulling, no itching. Nothing. I put a tiny amount on a funny bump on my leg last night, and soon felt a tingling. No sign of any action, though. I just did this as a little diagnostic. I am planning to try it on a life-long mole on my back next year, which itches quite often and is uncomfortable. As the salve will only work on cancerous tissue, I plan to try this first, and then, maybe, get and use the kind of salve for moles. In the continuing spirit of experimentation and reporting-to-base so characteristic of the silverlist, heh heh, I have experimented on a few parts of my arms and legs with a tiny bit of the salve. And yes, I know the recommendation is to treat only one at a time. I don't really expect to have to treat any of these, it is just a diagnostic experiment. But I did read about the person who treated one cancer on her dog, then just tested a lump and then another bump and then some funny looking skin - and in each case, very unexpectedly produced an eschar. since a good black salve has effect only on aberrant skin-flesh ... on healthy skin the salve has no effect (and nobody in the world can explain this). ###A good, healthy scab, when healing process has run its course, will be dry and crisp and crumbly at the edges = a very good sign that there are no problems underneath, as far as I have experienced. This is very good to hear, thankyou. As our first time experiment, when all is new, one is nervous about believing that one has achieved one's aim. There is no redness in the healthy flesh at the edges now. Seven days down, now on the eighth, Wednesday or Thursday may see the eschar drop off. Did you have a thread of skin or other tissue at the bottom of the eschar, or did it just leap out and say Boo! when you weren't looking? ###If no ooze/watery seepage, then it was only skin-deep ... count your blessings.:-) Absolutely! I was afraid it was a bad sign! A crisp scab formation is a must, so that healthy new skin can form under the scab. The scab should be kept dry (or dried with hair dyer after bathing), so that it does not fall off before the new skin forms underneath. This is valuable information - my instinct was that dampness would act like a poultice to draw out any pus down the sides. There is absolutely no matter around the sides now, so apart from any staining from the eschar, leaving it open, or just lightly covered, might be workable. I don't want it rubbed, though, as might happen with just his normal clothes on. Thank you Gunnar, for your trouble in sharing your experience. It is very reassuring. Thank you also to Mike, who allowed the original discussion of Cansema many months ago, which meant not only that I could pass the info on to other people since then, but, when the doctor diagnosed squamous cell carcinoma, meant I didn't fall in a heap but confidently looked for a source. This means I also heartily thank those members of the list who originally sent this information to the list and eneted into discussion about it. Even if I had found the information in a search, I would not have had the personal input and recommendation and incidental information that helped me search and decide (and, I feel pretty confident, destroy). Sincerely Rowena -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver
Re: CSCANSEMA Salve --- VCNO --- progress with eschar
In a message dated 12/9/2005 3:27:24 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, new...@aapt.net.au writes: After reading up on moles etc. and VCNO, I decided I would go with my gut and put VCNO on DH's plaster for non-stickability instead of vaseline. I'd left it alone for 48 hours rather than keep fiddling with it. Checked it, and it looked pretty good. I won't describe it unless any of you want me to. Yes, I always use CS, and there is DMSO in the salve. I cleaned it up with Yes, please describe it. What is DH's plaster? What salve are you talking about--Cansema? (if Cansema salve, what is your source?) Jill
Re: CSCANSEMA Salve --- VCNO --- progress with eschar
Yes, please describe it. What is DH's plaster? What salve are you talking about--Cansema? (if Cansema salve, what is your source?) Jill I got the digital camera out to record progress. Got fresh batteries, as they seemed to be dead. Didn't work. Nothing worked. Camera dead. Never mind, got video camera. Recorded four days or so. Video camera now not working. Hah! Cansema salve, yes. From http://www.wholisticanimal.com/ and they get it from http://www.bevanpotter.com/ or http://health.centreforce.com/ who also sell it. Both sell overseas. (From Australia) Plaster is elastoplast on a roll. You just cut off as much as you want. I will describe as best I can. First time I saw it (DH DIH did it himself) it was well and truly covered with salve, and a round portion of the crust had pushed up away from the skin, corresponding to the size of the mole that was there. I cleaned it up, got rid of all the excess crusty salve around the wound, and white and yellow streaks were visible underneath the lid or crust. He had applied far too much, and appled more the next morning - again, unable to see it, as it was on his spine. That night, I had a look at it and saw that the salve-encrusted lid had come away from the cancer. It appeared to have taken the top layer of skin and tumour with it. It was hanging by a tiny thread of skin, but came away as I cleaned up. Cleaned with CS and H2O2. Flesh around wound somewhat red. First time I put vaseline on, next day VCNO. Next day cleaned up with lots of CS and H202. Today looked rather dry, and cracked on top, and rather healed around the edges. No ooze whatsoever. I have put VCNO on the plaster again. I think I will keep using that now until it comes out, then use the healing cream they sent. I have put wedges of cotton wool to try to raise the plaster off the wound slightly, or at least to try to stop the emerging cancer getting squashed back in. Rowena -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCANSEMA Salve --- VCNO --- progress with eschar
Hi Rowena and everyone using a black salve, ... to be concise, I will type within the text of your post. Hope what I write helps -- this is my personal experience, and may be different from what others have gone through. - Original Message - From: Rowena new...@aapt.net.au To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 3:21 AM Subject: Re: CSCANSEMA Salve --- VCNO --- progress with eschar Yes, please describe it. What is DH's plaster? ... Jill ... Plaster is elastoplast on a roll. ... ###A type of sticky bandage-plaster that stretches a little, AND also is mostly *air-tight* -- this is good for a first application of the black salve, in the sense that the salve is better absorbed into the skin/flesh over 12 to 24 hours. The salve does not lose its moisture content during this time, and heat of the skin helps absorption You just cut off as much [[[of the elastic plaster]]] as you want. ... it was well and truly covered with salve, and a round portion of the crust had pushed up away from the skin, corresponding to the size of the mole that was there. I cleaned it up, got rid of all the excess crusty salve around the wound, and white and yellow streaks were visible underneath the lid or crust. ... ###From experience, the white, yellow streaks are visible in the fresh crust-scab-eschar-(raw lesion) when the plaster is removed. ###Very often the scab can be jet black or has jet black lines in it. The black in the scab is NOT remnant of the salve, but is part of the effect the salve has created in the scab. All residue salve will wash off with hydrogen peroxide of about 3% strength (good antiseptic). ... He had applied far too much, ... ###This is a common mistake (sad to say), and can cause much pain IF the problem-area in the skin is deep or wide-spread. The problem is that the open scab/lesion created by the salve can be large and deep, in which case the edema (red, puffy, fluid-filled swelling around scab) can be extremely painful. If you go to a doctor, he/she will go ballistic; tell you that you have severe infection, and will want to hit you with massive antibiotics ... when really there is zero infection. ###In large-wide problem areas, apply salve to a small area only, and when a scab has formed, then apply more salve to another small area, and keep repeating this till all of the area has been treated. ###You will know when you have covered the whole of the problem area, when the salve no longer starts (or causes) scabs/lesions, since a good black salve has effect only on aberrant skin-flesh ... on healthy skin the salve has no effect (and nobody in the world can explain this). ... and appled more the next morning - again, unable to see it, as it was on his spine. ... ###This is when what I wrote above can be intensified = a deeper scab, plus more pain than should be normal. That night, I had a look at it and saw that the salve-encrusted lid had come away from the cancer. It appeared to have taken the top layer of skin and tumour with it. It was hanging by a tiny thread of skin, but came away as I cleaned up. Cleaned with CS and H2O2. Flesh around wound somewhat red. ... ###The red is normal and to be expected. It is an edema. First time I put vaseline on, next day VCNO. Next day cleaned up with lots of CS and H202. Today looked rather dry, and cracked on top, and rather healed around the edges. No ooze whatsoever. ... ###A good, healthy scab, when healing process has run its course, will be dry and crisp and crumbly at the edges = a very good sign that there are no problems underneath, as far as I have experienced. ###If no ooze/watery seepage, then it was only skin-deep ... count your blessings.:-) ... I have put VCNO on the plaster again. ###From experience, you should NOT put plaster on the scab-area, especially not the water-air-proof plaster. Why? Because it will prevent the formation of a good, crisp, healthy scab. A crisp scab formation is a must, so that healthy new skin can form under the scab. The scab should be kept dry (or dried with hair dyer after bathing), so that it does not fall off before the new skin forms underneath. ... I think I will keep using that now until it comes out, then use the healing cream they sent. I have put wedges of cotton wool to try to raise the plaster off the wound slightly, or at least to try to stop the emerging cancer getting squashed back in. ... ###Why not try leaving the wound open to the air? Wash it daily with 3% hydrogen peroxide, and if need be, cover it with a non-stick bandage or gauze, so that the scab can breathe ... will help healing. Rowena Hope this make sense? Best wishes, Gunar -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCANSEMA Salve --- VCNO --- progress with eschar
Jill said: I see that VCNO means virgin coconut oil. They have borrowed the term from the olive oil industry, because there was no agreed terminology in coconut oil production to describe what they are doing. It is not universal at the moment, as I understand it, that one term means one particular thing, and there is no central body really to determine what things should be called. Another thing is that it is open to abuse by people who want to sell their RBD (refined bleached and deodorised) oil to jump on the bandwagon and call their oil virgin. So we need to be sure what process is used in manufacture and what interpretation they put on the terminology when choosing a product - I guess look up a website to see what they are doing in detail. Hydrogenated is not good in any oil. I don't know what the effect of nitrogen is, but one company who sells CO in tins boasts on their website (but not on the cans) that they put nitrogen to preserve freshness. I did a search on nitrogen, but didn't end up much wiser. One coconut oil maker reckoned it was great, but there was a deafening silence from VCNO makers on the subject. I emailed the Nitrogenated oil makers, but they never replied. I never intended to eat their product (unless it was wonderful), just to make soap. After reading up on moles etc. and VCNO, I decided I would go with my gut and put VCNO on DH's plaster for non-stickability instead of vaseline. I'd left it alone for 48 hours rather than keep fiddling with it. Checked it, and it looked pretty good. I won't describe it unless any of you want me to. Yes, I always use CS, and there is DMSO in the salve. I cleaned it up with CS and H2O2 3% tonight. Not that there was any work to do, but I just thought the skin around should have a bit of silver and oxygen. I'm a bit concerned about the eschar getting compressed, as it's on the spine, so put a little wad of cotton wool below the site like a cushion, but not above in case it slipped down and got stuck to anything. Pretty pleased with progress. Rowena -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
