Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Ode Coyote]

 Do you have a recomendation?

 Last link was  PDF and wouldn't open.

Ode


This is not a big-time problem; instruments that measure to 0.1 micro 
Siemen are available off the shelf for about $100.  For 5 times that you 
can get down to nano.  All of these can be gotten with NIST certification 
for under $100 additional, and can be recalibrated in the field with 
standard solutions and if necessary returned to the maker for NIST recert.





At 10:47 AM 10/11/2003 -0400, you wrote:
 url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63382.html
 Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
 From: Ode Coyote
 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:08:22
 
 Ken,
 
 Thanks you for some very important information on PWT problems.
 
 My turn. All I can say is WOW.
 
 I got hints of PWT problems from reading the archives, but nothing
 concrete and definite as you have shown.
 
 No one should be offended. You are not attacking anyone. You are simply
 stating the truth. If you get a bad response, then that person simply
 doesn't care about their responsibilities.
 
 The PWT seems to be the only inexpensive method of measuring uS. If you
 are experiencing problems of this magnitude for single ion species, what
 kind of problems are the people having who measure water quality?
 
 That's the stuff most people drink, you know:)
 
 I think you are starting to open Pandora's box. That's good. It's time.
 
 Best Regards,
 
 Mike Monett
 
 
 --
 The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.
 
 Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org
 
 To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com
 
 Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html
 
 List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
 
 




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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Ode Coyote]

 OH yes
 It's obvious now
..and it works too!

:-)

Ode

At 07:32 PM 10/12/2003 -0500, you wrote:

- Original Message - 
From: Ode Coyote coyote...@earthlink.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms


So, If it's 60 deg F the adjustment should still be to 84 uS ?
It's only about a 10 uS difference.


Why is the temp chart even there?

 ## For meters without temperature compensation.. and to give
   you something to gripe about!

Al Davis


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Ode Coyote]

  For people who are testing water, a difference of 10 or 20 uS probably
isn't going to kill em.
Nor will it harm us...BUT [doesn't help us much in what we're trying to do.]
 The water people are probably not trying to compare water readings to
something else or add/subtract anything to thier water where the reading is
not compared before/after to get a uS gain or decrease.

..and if they were, how would they know?

It would seem that us IESers are every instrument makers nightmare. :-)
[We have some idea that we should be getting something specific and what it
should be.]
Ode


 

At 10:47 AM 10/11/2003 -0400, you wrote:
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63382.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Ode Coyote
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:08:22

Ken,

Thanks you for some very important information on PWT problems.

My turn. All I can say is WOW. 

I got hints of PWT problems from reading the archives, but nothing 
concrete and definite as you have shown.

No one should be offended. You are not attacking anyone. You are simply 
stating the truth. If you get a bad response, then that person simply 
doesn't care about their responsibilities.

The PWT seems to be the only inexpensive method of measuring uS. If you 
are experiencing problems of this magnitude for single ion species, what 
kind of problems are the people having who measure water quality?

That's the stuff most people drink, you know:)

I think you are starting to open Pandora's box. That's good. It's time.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Malcolm Stebbins]

At 06:25 AM 10/12/03 -0400, you wrote:




  For people who are testing water, a difference of 10 or 20 uS probably
isn't going to kill em.
Nor will it harm us...BUT [doesn't help us much in what we're trying to do.]
 The water people are probably not trying to compare water readings to
something else or add/subtract anything to thier water where the reading is
not compared before/after to get a uS gain or decrease.

..and if they were, how would they know?

It would seem that us IESers are every instrument makers nightmare. :-)
[We have some idea that we should be getting something specific and what it
should be.]
Ode



This is not a big-time problem; instruments that measure to 0.1 micro 
Siemen are available off the shelf for about $100.  For 5 times that you 
can get down to nano.  All of these can be gotten with NIST certification 
for under $100 additional, and can be recalibrated in the field with 
standard solutions and if necessary returned to the maker for NIST recert.







At 10:47 AM 10/11/2003 -0400, you wrote:
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63382.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Ode Coyote
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:08:22

Ken,

Thanks you for some very important information on PWT problems.

My turn. All I can say is WOW.

I got hints of PWT problems from reading the archives, but nothing
concrete and definite as you have shown.

No one should be offended. You are not attacking anyone. You are simply
stating the truth. If you get a bad response, then that person simply
doesn't care about their responsibilities.

The PWT seems to be the only inexpensive method of measuring uS. If you
are experiencing problems of this magnitude for single ion species, what
kind of problems are the people having who measure water quality?

That's the stuff most people drink, you know:)

I think you are starting to open Pandora's box. That's good. It's time.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com






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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Ode Coyote]

   So,  If it's 60 deg F the adjustment should still be to 84 uS ?
It's only about a 10 uS difference.

Is there a line in the calibration instructions that state that?
Essentially: PWT Instructions read..insert meter, twiddle screw till it reads 84 uS. [no mention of using chart]

Why is the temp chart even there?

Quickie test of temp compensation with sol and PWT in baggie held warming in hand... [not too scientific but if compensation works, reading shouldn't change]

Insert PTW in baggie of sol and wait for it to stop hunting, then  hold it all in warm hand

PWT#1- Reading increases by 8 uS within about a minute.
PWT#2 -Reading increases by 3 uS within about a minute.

Humm...doesn't look too good.

Not intended to quantify anything as heat soak rates may be different, but it does sorta demonstrate that the temp compensation is likely a myth. [or something conductive is leaching out of the baggie when electricity is introduced?]
More exact test needed as the difference between meters points to another 'possible' problem when using the chart.

I'll try this: [in a pyrex lab beaker]
Measure temp of sol with digital thermometer..adjust everything to chart.
Increase temp of sol to a couple of levels as per the chart and see if the change in reading matches.

That's not to say that the 'thermometer' is properly calibrated. [I could compare it to other questionable thermometers, ey?] or that nothing leaches out of lab glass.
We just might be living in a whole instrumental world of inexactitude.

Look.  I'm aware that everything in life has it's limits but are still useful.
So, if elements in your life don't match mine, it doesn't pay to freak out and start an arguement when it really doesn't matter. [That's the point...nothing is true...and it doesn't matter all that much ]
Life has a lot of give to it.  ..sorta spongy, if you catch my  drift.

Science is an art.
CS making is even more of an art.
Hanna is subject to real life too.
..and 'most' people claim they are perfect when the reality is... that none of us are.

Very bottom line:

If you like the CS you make and it does the job for you when used the way you use it...it's the good stuff.
If you think you can do better...do better.
Discussing what better 'is', helps us all progress in our efforts but doesn't exactly describe it.
Words themselves are inaccurate.

Besides that, no two people even live on the same planet.
They only look similar enough to fool us into believing that we do.

Ode



At 08:26 AM 10/11/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi Vince,
>
>The PWT has a temperature compensator.  The s.s. tube on the left side is
>the probe.  So, when calibrating just let it stabilize at whatever
>temperature the solution is and then check the meter to make sure it reads
>84.0 uS.  Make sure you wait until the meter stops hunting.
>
>Here's the calibration info on the bottle label.  You'll see that 84.0 uS is
>the reading at 77 F.
>
>°C °F   uS/cm
>0   32.0   64
>5   41.0   65
>10 50.0   67
>15 59.0   68
>16 60.8   70
>17 62.6   71
>18 64.4   73
>19 66.2   74
>20 68.0   76
>21 69.8   78
>22 71.6   79
>23 73.4   81
>24 75.2   82
>25 77.0   84
>26 78.8   86
>27 80.6   87
>28 82.4   89
>29 842   90
>30 86.0  92
>31 87.8  94
>
>I hope this helps.
>
>Trem
>
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: Vince Richter cvin...@ala.net>
>To: silver-list@eskimo.com>
>Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 8:13 PM
>Subject: [silver_list] CS>Trem; was RE: CS>Measuring very high ppms
>
>
>> Trem, since the subject came up, how much difference does the
>> calibration temperature make?  I know the cal needs to be done at a
>> certain temp.  Would there be a ballpark correlation between calibration
>> error and temp. deviation from the standard during calibration?  Is
>> there a uS per degree F deviation ballpark error (in the 10-20 uS
>> range)?  The reason I ask is that I have both the PWT and the cal
>> solution.  I haven't used the solution yet because I have no reason to
>> believe it's out of cal.  The uS I read in my CS was within 1 ppm of the
>> ppm CS Ole Bob measured.  When the time comes and I calibrate my meter,
>> I wondered how meticulous I need to be, and how much difference a  few
>> degrees would make.
>>
>> Thanks, Vince
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com]
>> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 4:21 PM
>> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
>> Subject: CS>Measuring very high ppms
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Mike Monett 31dtzj...@sneakemail.com>
>> To: silver-list@eskimo.com>
>> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 1:41 PM
>> Subject: [silver_list] Re: CS>Re: Measuring very high ppms
>>
>>
>> >
>> >   The Hanna PWT would be an excellent method if I could find  some way
>> >   to guarantee  the calibration. Steve Young's idea to  make resistive
>> >   standards might be an excellent solution.
>>
>> > Mike Monett
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> The meter can easily be calibrated if you use the calibration solution
>> from
>> Hanna.  I got one box of 

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Al Davis]

- Original Message - 
From: Ode Coyote coyote...@earthlink.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms


So, If it's 60 deg F the adjustment should still be to 84 uS ?
It's only about a 10 uS difference.


Why is the temp chart even there?

 ## For meters without temperature compensation.. and to give
   you something to gripe about!

Al Davis


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Jonathan B. Britten]

Hi, Richard,

Thanks so much.   The password problem is a small matter,  I suppose,  
but at least some people checking your site might figure that they 
can't get past the password prompt.   It turns out that one can just 
ignore it,  but it does pop up again on each page visited.


Looking forward to your expert observations about the merits of CS as 
opposed to the many conventional pharmaceuticals you have prescribed 
during your long career!


JBB



On Saturday, Oct 11, 2003, at 00:48 Asia/Tokyo, Richard Harris wrote:


JBB,
Sorry for the problems  password. I'll get my computer GURU on it--I 
wasn't
aware of the password request. I'm almost a computer illiterate, 
though I
wrote both my books using my computer strictly as a word processor. I 
have
upgraded computers twice in the past 3 yrs due to crashes, etc. and 
have so
much to learn--you know, So Much to do  so Little Time (I'm 80yrs). 
Last
month when the Worms were crawling, my GURU adjusted my computer to 
swat

them and keep them out--One day, I received more than 100 with nice
innocent-sounding subjects: Thank you; Your check is ready; That 
movie!;
Your credit has been approved;  other nice things that many trusting 
souls

would rush to open  Voila! You've been hit!
Hope Ronnie can correct it, but I encourage you to keep trying.
Best regards,
Richard Harris, 56 yt FL Pharmacist

-Original Message-
From: Jonathan B. Britten [mailto:jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:38 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms


Hi, Richard,

Thanks for the link and for the nice message.

Unfortunately,  in trying to view the pages on your site,  I keep
getting a demand to log in and provide a password.Is there a way to
access your page without going through that routine?   I have too many
passwords as it is.

Perhaps list members would be grateful for a  single login name and
password for everyone on the list,  unless there are real security and
privacy issues that necessitate individual log-ins.

Thanks in advance!


JBB




On Thursday, Oct 9, 2003, at 23:31 Asia/Tokyo, Richard Harris wrote:


Hi Jonathan  Mike,

My humble thanks to each of you for acknowledging information from
each of
us offered in love and
empathy to those with problems about which many of us have been
touched!

Jonathan, your suggestion about the EMHealth Group at Yahoo will be
priceless to all of us that are still learning and sharing (me at age
80).
God has blessed me so richly until I Have to continually seek to serve

share with others.

Mike you have added so much to us newbies from your wealth of 
knowledge

since I found this wonderful, informative Group! My continual Thanks
to you
and so many others who stand head and shoulders above the average
knowledge
so many of us are seeking.

Mike, have you considered soaking one of your used face masks in CS?
Perhaps
better than the soaks I already mentioned.

I have a website: www.rharrisinc.com , the last page offers Free
consulting
on questions I might be able to help that might not be suitable for
group
use; however, if the subject might have use for several readers, this
list
is the ideal place--I'll reply to either.

May each of you, together with all others sharing, be rewarded with a
happy,
healthy life for many years! A long time black friend (long deceased)
once
expressed as he was leaving, I hope You live a thousand years . . . .
. . .
.(long pause) . .and I don't ever die!

Best regards,
Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist

-Original Message-
From: Mike Monett [mailto:31dtzj...@sneakemail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 9:39 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63227.html
RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Richard Harris
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:31:58


Hi Turtle,



My heart  goes  out to you  Mike and all  your  loved  ones. Many
people are  sensitive to cat dander as well as mold  spores. There
are new room air filters that are satisfactory for most  people in
a limited space. Some wag once suggested that the only sure way to
remove fleas  from a house is to give away or shoot  the  dogs 
cats   burn the house. I certainly hope your  problems  don't get
that severe.  If your home is air conditioned, you  can  have an
infra-red light  installed that will even kill anthax  as  well as
most other air-borne problems including mold.



Best of luck to all of you.



Mike, for  your headaches, have you tried wetting  a  folded paper
towel or cloth with CS and placing on forehead over eyes for a few
minutes--sometimes that's efeective even for migraines.



Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist


  Hi Richard,

  Thank you for your kind thoughts. I second Jonathan's post - finally
  we have  someone with extensive knowledge and experience  in  a very
  rare specialty.  Your  posts will be invaluable to  everyone  on the
  list.

  The headaches  seem

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Ode Coyote]

  The problem is that you have no way of knowing if you got a bad bottle or
not, or,  how bad it is, especially if it's not so WAY bad as to be totally
unbelievable like that bad one I got.

 A 'single' bad bottle in a batch number that is supposedly good indicates
a quality control problem.
 EVERY bottle should be checked before shipping and was obviously not.

 The means of checking [at least for comparison] came in the form of a
metalized plastic sachet of sol designed to be the test container. [Cut off
top and insert meter]
 When using the sachet as intended, the uS reading quickly rose and rose
with no end in sight.  When I filled a plastic baggie with that calibration
solution and tried again, the reading quickly dropped and stabilized.

But since the original package had apparently contaminated the sol when the
electrical current from the meter hit it, the baggie test is worthless.
 Good Solution/ Bad sachet?  

 Something is seriously wrong there.

 There is a table of uS to temperature relationships on the calibration sol
bottle.
 If the PWT is temperature compensated as claimed, why would this be relevent?
..and if it's not...?   No instructions concerning this that I have found.

On the other hand, the factory calibrations seem to be pretty consistant
over several years time. It used to be certified but isn't any longer.
 I seriously doubt that Hanna uses a calibration solution to adjust their
meters at the factory.

 PWTs are pretty good instruments but a calibration difference of +/- 4 or
5 uS, while probably not a big deal for their intended purposes and still
useful as a comparison between batches for a single individual, is a major
problem when people in different locations..measuring different things with
different meters...get riled up beause their meter isn't saying what they
think it should.

 I use an auto off that's keyed to a voltage/current/conductivity
relationship.  The CS always reads virtually the same uS at shutdown for
me, using my meter, regardless of which of many generators I used to make a
batch.
 But now and then, someone can't get a reading of more than 6 or 7 uS.  In
every case, they have recalibrated their meters.
 All I can tell them is send me your meter and I'll see if it reads the
same as mine in the same liquid.
 I STILL can't say which one is correct.
I can make their generator make their meter read anything they want it
to... and vise versa.

 I could make a batch and send it to Frank Key and get some numbers and
take those conductivity and total silver content numbers on sheer faith as
being correct.
 That might be useful, BUT, CS changes with time and I've had batches
change from absolutely colorless to pale yellow in transport with all that
vibration and temperature shifting while in airplanes.
 As we all know by now, agglomeration changes uS readings and they will
invariably drop a couple to several points overnight. [ total silver
content doesn't change]

 I have a big batch sitting here stabilizing now. In a week or so, I'll
send it to Frank.  Hopefully it won't change in transport and I'll be able
to tell smaller lies. [But I STILL may not know how big they are.]

 Another portion of the same batch will go to the local NCDNR water lab in
Raleigh NC [Depending on the state of my friendship with a receptionist
there who will sneak it through under the table because the NCDNR lab ONLY
does  state work and nothing for the public]
 This time, I'll ask what process they use to test it. [Maybe I should air
mail it to myself first?]

 Just before sending the samples off, I'll meter it with two PWTs.  One PWT
with the factory calibration and one that has been re-calibrated with the
'good'? calibration solution.

BTW, I won't be using that data to 'contest' Franks data because I still
won't know if either of them are correct if they are different, or which
one is correct if any of them are.

 Putting anyone 'on the spot' is not my intent.

Humm. I think there's enough to send some to Ole Bob too.

Thing is, till I get at least two people to agree on 'something',  No one
can claim anything.
 So far, no good. 

Ode


At 03:20 PM 10/10/2003 -0700, you wrote:

- Original Message -
From: Mike Monett 31dtzj...@sneakemail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: [silver_list] Re: CSRe: Measuring very high ppms



   The Hanna PWT would be an excellent method if I could find  some way
   to guarantee  the calibration. Steve Young's idea to  make resistive
   standards might be an excellent solution.

 Mike Monett

Mike,

The meter can easily be calibrated if you use the calibration solution from
Hanna.  I got one box of 16 bottles of solution that was defective and Ken
got one of the bottles.  It was the only batch I have gotten that was
defective in many years.  I think you can generally trust the solution to do
what it was intended to doallow calibration of the PWT.

It will be very difficult to use a standard 

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Ode Coyote]

  The problem is that you have no way of knowing if you got a bad bottle or
not, or,  how bad it is, especially if it's not so WAY bad as to be totally
unbelievable like that bad one I got.

 A 'single' bad bottle in a batch number that is supposedly good indicates
a quality control problem.
 EVERY bottle should be checked before shipping and was obviously not.

 The means of checking [at least for comparison] came in the form of a
metalized plastic sachet of sol designed to be the test container. [Cut off
top and insert meter]
 When using the sachet as intended, the uS reading quickly rose and rose
with no end in sight.  When I filled a plastic baggie with that calibration
solution and tried again, the reading quickly dropped and stabilized.

But since the original package had apparently contaminated the sol when the
electrical current from the meter hit it, the baggie test is worthless.
 Good Solution/ Bad sachet?  

 Something is seriously wrong there.

 There is a table of uS to temperature relationships on the calibration sol
bottle.
 If the PWT is temperature compensated as claimed, why would this be relevent?

On the other hand, the factory calibrations seem to be pretty consistant
over several years time. It used to be certified but isn't any longer.
 I seriously doubt that Hanna uses a calibration solution to adjust their
meters at the factory.

 PWTs are pretty good instruments but a calibration difference of +/- 4 or
5 uS, while probably not a big deal for their intended purposes and still
useful as a comparison between batches for a single individual, is a major
problem when people in different locations..measuring different things with
different meters...get riled up beause their meter isn't saying what they
think it should.

 I use an auto off that's keyed to a voltage/current/conductivity
relationship.  The CS always reads virtually the same uS at shutdown for
me, using my meter, regardless of which of many generators I used to make a
batch.
 But now and then, someone can't get a reading of more than 6 or 7 uS.  In
every case, they have recalibrated their meters.
 All I can tell them is send me your meter and I'll see if it reads the
same as mine in the same liquid.
 I STILL can't say which one is correct.
I can make their generator make their meter read anything they want it
to... and vise versa.

 I could make a batch and send it to Frank Key and get some numbers and
take those conductivity and total silver content numbers on sheer faith as
being correct.
 That might be useful, BUT, CS changes with time and I've had batches
change from absolutely colorless to pale yellow in transport with all that
vibration and temperature shifting while in airplanes.
 As we all know by now, agglomeration changes uS readings and they will
invariably drop a couple to several points overnight. [ total silver
content doesn't change]

 I have a big batch sitting here stabilizing now. In a week or so, I'll
send it to Frank.  Hopefully it won't change in transport and I'll be able
to tell smaller lies. [But I STILL may not know how big they are.]

 Another portion of the same batch will go to the local NCDNR water lab in
Raleigh NC [Depending on the state of my friendship with a receptionist
there who will sneak it through under the table because the NCDNR lab ONLY
does  state work and nothing for the public]
 This time, I'll ask what process they use to test it. [Maybe I should air
mail it to myself first?]

 Just before sending the samples off, I'll meter it with two PWTs.  One PWT
with the factory calibration and one that has been re-calibrated with the
'good'? calibration solution.

BTW, I won't be using that data to 'contest' Franks data because I still
won't know if either of them are correct if they are different, or which
one is correct if any of them are.

 Putting anyone 'on the spot' is not my intent.

Humm. I think there's enough to send some to Ole Bob too.

Thing is, till I get at least two people to agree on 'something',  No one
can claim anything.
 So far, no good. 

Ode


At 03:20 PM 10/10/2003 -0700, you wrote:

- Original Message -
From: Mike Monett 31dtzj...@sneakemail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: [silver_list] Re: CSRe: Measuring very high ppms



   The Hanna PWT would be an excellent method if I could find  some way
   to guarantee  the calibration. Steve Young's idea to  make resistive
   standards might be an excellent solution.

 Mike Monett

Mike,

The meter can easily be calibrated if you use the calibration solution from
Hanna.  I got one box of 16 bottles of solution that was defective and Ken
got one of the bottles.  It was the only batch I have gotten that was
defective in many years.  I think you can generally trust the solution to do
what it was intended to doallow calibration of the PWT.

It will be very difficult to use a standard resistor since the sensing
electrodes are not easily accessible and the meter 

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63382.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Ode Coyote
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:08:22

Ken,

Thanks you for some very important information on PWT problems.

My turn. All I can say is WOW. 

I got hints of PWT problems from reading the archives, but nothing 
concrete and definite as you have shown.

No one should be offended. You are not attacking anyone. You are simply 
stating the truth. If you get a bad response, then that person simply 
doesn't care about their responsibilities.

The PWT seems to be the only inexpensive method of measuring uS. If you 
are experiencing problems of this magnitude for single ion species, what 
kind of problems are the people having who measure water quality?

That's the stuff most people drink, you know:)

I think you are starting to open Pandora's box. That's good. It's time.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


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CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Trem]

Hi Vince,

The PWT has a temperature compensator.  The s.s. tube on the left side is
the probe.  So, when calibrating just let it stabilize at whatever
temperature the solution is and then check the meter to make sure it reads
84.0 uS.  Make sure you wait until the meter stops hunting.

Here's the calibration info on the bottle label.  You'll see that 84.0 uS is
the reading at 77 F.

°C °F   uS/cm
0   32.0   64
5   41.0   65
10 50.0   67
15 59.0   68
16 60.8   70
17 62.6   71
18 64.4   73
19 66.2   74
20 68.0   76
21 69.8   78
22 71.6   79
23 73.4   81
24 75.2   82
25 77.0   84
26 78.8   86
27 80.6   87
28 82.4   89
29 842   90
30 86.0  92
31 87.8  94

I hope this helps.

Trem



- Original Message -
From: Vince Richter cvin...@ala.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 8:13 PM
Subject: [silver_list] CSTrem; was RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


 Trem, since the subject came up, how much difference does the
 calibration temperature make?  I know the cal needs to be done at a
 certain temp.  Would there be a ballpark correlation between calibration
 error and temp. deviation from the standard during calibration?  Is
 there a uS per degree F deviation ballpark error (in the 10-20 uS
 range)?  The reason I ask is that I have both the PWT and the cal
 solution.  I haven't used the solution yet because I have no reason to
 believe it's out of cal.  The uS I read in my CS was within 1 ppm of the
 ppm CS Ole Bob measured.  When the time comes and I calibrate my meter,
 I wondered how meticulous I need to be, and how much difference a few
 degrees would make.

 Thanks, Vince

 -Original Message-
 From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com]
 Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 4:21 PM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: CSMeasuring very high ppms


 - Original Message -
 From: Mike Monett 31dtzj...@sneakemail.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 1:41 PM
 Subject: [silver_list] Re: CSRe: Measuring very high ppms


 
The Hanna PWT would be an excellent method if I could find  some way
to guarantee  the calibration. Steve Young's idea to  make resistive
standards might be an excellent solution.

  Mike Monett

 Mike,

 The meter can easily be calibrated if you use the calibration solution
 from
 Hanna.  I got one box of 16 bottles of solution that was defective and
 Ken
 got one of the bottles.  It was the only batch I have gotten that was
 defective in many years.  I think you can generally trust the solution
 to do
 what it was intended to doallow calibration of the PWT.

 It will be very difficult to use a standard resistor since the sensing
 electrodes are not easily accessible and the meter would have to be
 disassembled to get at the electronics.  Not something the average
 person
 would want to do.  And it's really not a good idea when all one has to
 do is
 use the factory solution.

 Trem



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 The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

 Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

 To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

 Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

 List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSTrem; was RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Vince Richter]

That sounds great to me :)

Vince

-Original Message-
From: S  J Young [mailto:you...@konnections.net] 
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 10:10 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSTrem; was RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

Vince,

One of the features of the PWT is that it senses the temperature of the
solution being measured and does an automatic temperature compensation.
You
shouldn't need to be concerned with the temperature of the calibration
fluid
for normal room temperatures.
--Steve Y.



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List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

CSPWT operation, was: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Vince Richter]

Thanks, Trem.  That helps a great deal.  So, as I understand it the
meter senses the temperature, compensates the conductivity reading for
77 Degrees, and reads what the solution would be at 77 degrees
regardless of the solution temp. 

One more question:  when I read the conductivity of my CS during
production, The reading starts out at a peak value, then rapidly drops a
few uS and then steadies out at a lower value.  What is happening, and
which reading is right: the initial higher reading, or the final lower
reading?

Thanks,

Vince 

-Original Message-
From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com] 
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 9:27 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CSMeasuring very high ppms

Hi Vince,

The PWT has a temperature compensator.  The s.s. tube on the left side
is
the probe.  So, when calibrating just let it stabilize at whatever
temperature the solution is and then check the meter to make sure it
reads
84.0 uS.  Make sure you wait until the meter stops hunting.

Here's the calibration info on the bottle label.  You'll see that 84.0
uS is
the reading at 77 F.

°C °F   uS/cm
0   32.0   64
5   41.0   65
10 50.0   67
15 59.0   68
16 60.8   70
17 62.6   71
18 64.4   73
19 66.2   74
20 68.0   76
21 69.8   78
22 71.6   79
23 73.4   81
24 75.2   82
25 77.0   84
26 78.8   86
27 80.6   87
28 82.4   89
29 842   90
30 86.0  92
31 87.8  94

I hope this helps.

Trem




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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms, mold

[Malcolm Stebbins]

Hi Mike, I just know you haven't got enough to do yet (yeah, Right!) but 
when I read of the drift of 'stuff' from the neighbors apt. below it 
reminded me of something that has also been an allergy problem;  the almost 
- or actually - microscopic bits of synthetic fibers shed from our clothes. 
Something like a Toxic Shock to the nostrils??
Have you tried the better quality electrostatic air cleaners like the 
Freidrichs?  I haven't yet, but hope to set it up soon.

Further, present deponent saith not.
Take care,  Malcolm

At 08:11 PM 10/8/03 -0400, you wrote:


url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63249.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms, mold
From: Malcolm Stebbins
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:31:47

   Hi Mike,  Thanks  for your previous post
   Meanwhile, regarding  the presencc of headache producing  mold and
   spores in  your  environment,  have  you  tried  using  the common
   copper-based garden  spray solutions  (Kop-r-spray,  Liqui-cop are
   ones around  here)?
  Hi Malcom,

  Thank you  very  much for your kind words. I  searched  the  web for
  sporicides many  times,  but never came  across  those  two products
  until now. I'll get more information - Thanks!


  More research  indicated copper is used as a  fungicide  in treating
  grapes, and by people who grow roses.

  Feeling somewhat  grapey and rosy, I decided to give it  a  try.


Aahhh, Yes!  The dreaded Grapey-Rosey syndrome, know it well.




  The tenants  downstairs  live  a   normal  life,  and  their fabrics
  generate a constant supply of new spores.
Best Regards,

Mike Monett


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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[BioSil]

Lovely stuff!  thank you!
:o)

- Original Message - 
From: Richard Harris yr...@cfl.rr.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Cc: Richard Harris yr...@cfl.rr.com
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 4:31 PM
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


 Hi Jonathan  Mike,

 My humble thanks to each of you for acknowledging information from each of
 us offered in love and
 empathy to those with problems about which many of us have been touched!

 Jonathan, your suggestion about the EMHealth Group at Yahoo will be
 priceless to all of us that are still learning and sharing (me at age 80).
 God has blessed me so richly until I Have to continually seek to serve 
 share with others.

 Mike you have added so much to us newbies from your wealth of knowledge
 since I found this wonderful, informative Group! My continual Thanks to
you
 and so many others who stand head and shoulders above the average
knowledge
 so many of us are seeking.

 Mike, have you considered soaking one of your used face masks in CS?
Perhaps
 better than the soaks I already mentioned.

 I have a website: www.rharrisinc.com , the last page offers Free
consulting
 on questions I might be able to help that might not be suitable for group
 use; however, if the subject might have use for several readers, this list
 is the ideal place--I'll reply to either.

 May each of you, together with all others sharing, be rewarded with a
happy,
 healthy life for many years! A long time black friend (long deceased) once
 expressed as he was leaving, I hope You live a thousand years . . . . . .
.
 .(long pause) . .and I don't ever die!

 Best regards,
 Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist

 -Original Message-
 From: Mike Monett [mailto:31dtzj...@sneakemail.com]
 Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 9:39 PM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


 url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63227.html
 RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms
 From: Richard Harris
 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:31:58

Hi Turtle,

My heart  goes  out to you  Mike and all  your  loved  ones. Many
people are  sensitive to cat dander as well as mold  spores. There
are new room air filters that are satisfactory for most  people in
a limited space. Some wag once suggested that the only sure way to
remove fleas  from a house is to give away or shoot  the  dogs 
cats   burn the house. I certainly hope your  problems  don't get
that severe.  If your home is air conditioned, you  can  have an
infra-red light  installed that will even kill anthax  as  well as
most other air-borne problems including mold.

Best of luck to all of you.

Mike, for  your headaches, have you tried wetting  a  folded paper
towel or cloth with CS and placing on forehead over eyes for a few
minutes--sometimes that's efeective even for migraines.

Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist

   Hi Richard,

   Thank you for your kind thoughts. I second Jonathan's post - finally
   we have  someone with extensive knowledge and experience  in  a very
   rare specialty.  Your  posts will be invaluable to  everyone  on the
   list.

   The headaches  seem to be caused by spores and not by the  toxic gas
   produced by the fungus. I have a highly-modified HEPA face mask that
   combines the  best features of the 3M valves with  the  light weight
   and tight fit of the Northill. (Darned engineers can't  stop finding
   ways to improve things, can we:)

   Anyway, the  slightest  exposure  to  spores  gives  a  very violent
   headache, nothing  like I've experienced before. I used to  get this
   when I  made  the  bed  - flipping  the  sheets  and  blankets would
   disperse the spores, and the fun would start.

   The HEPA  filter stops them, but not the vapor they  produce.  So it
   seems the  problem  really  is spores  from  fungus  growing  in the
   fabric, and  it  is very tough to kill. The spores  are  coated with
   chitin, the same material that provides the exoskeleton  of insects,
   lobsters, and many other forms of life. It seems to  be invulnerable
   to normal acids and bases.

   The toxins  seem to have a special path to the headache  machine. No
   conventional remedy has any effect whatsoever.

   Your idea  of using cs on a pad never occurred to me - see  - that's
   where your vast experience is so valuable.

   I'll give it a try and see what happens. Thanks!

   Just a note on using UV to kill spores - I've seen reports  that UVB
   might be  helpful since it is a shorter wavelength than UVA. But the
   light cannot  penetrate deep into fabrics or other material,  so any
   hidden spores might not see the effects.

 Best Regards,

 Mike Monett


 --
 The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

 Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

 To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

 Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Richard Harris]

JBB,
Sorry for the problems  password. I'll get my computer GURU on it--I wasn't
aware of the password request. I'm almost a computer illiterate, though I
wrote both my books using my computer strictly as a word processor. I have
upgraded computers twice in the past 3 yrs due to crashes, etc. and have so
much to learn--you know, So Much to do  so Little Time (I'm 80yrs). Last
month when the Worms were crawling, my GURU adjusted my computer to swat
them and keep them out--One day, I received more than 100 with nice
innocent-sounding subjects: Thank you; Your check is ready; That movie!;
Your credit has been approved;  other nice things that many trusting souls
would rush to open  Voila! You've been hit!
Hope Ronnie can correct it, but I encourage you to keep trying.
Best regards,
Richard Harris, 56 yt FL Pharmacist

-Original Message-
From: Jonathan B. Britten [mailto:jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:38 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms


Hi, Richard,

Thanks for the link and for the nice message.

Unfortunately,  in trying to view the pages on your site,  I keep
getting a demand to log in and provide a password.Is there a way to
access your page without going through that routine?   I have too many
passwords as it is.

Perhaps list members would be grateful for a  single login name and
password for everyone on the list,  unless there are real security and
privacy issues that necessitate individual log-ins.

Thanks in advance!


JBB




On Thursday, Oct 9, 2003, at 23:31 Asia/Tokyo, Richard Harris wrote:

 Hi Jonathan  Mike,

 My humble thanks to each of you for acknowledging information from
 each of
 us offered in love and
 empathy to those with problems about which many of us have been
 touched!

 Jonathan, your suggestion about the EMHealth Group at Yahoo will be
 priceless to all of us that are still learning and sharing (me at age
 80).
 God has blessed me so richly until I Have to continually seek to serve
 
 share with others.

 Mike you have added so much to us newbies from your wealth of knowledge
 since I found this wonderful, informative Group! My continual Thanks
 to you
 and so many others who stand head and shoulders above the average
 knowledge
 so many of us are seeking.

 Mike, have you considered soaking one of your used face masks in CS?
 Perhaps
 better than the soaks I already mentioned.

 I have a website: www.rharrisinc.com , the last page offers Free
 consulting
 on questions I might be able to help that might not be suitable for
 group
 use; however, if the subject might have use for several readers, this
 list
 is the ideal place--I'll reply to either.

 May each of you, together with all others sharing, be rewarded with a
 happy,
 healthy life for many years! A long time black friend (long deceased)
 once
 expressed as he was leaving, I hope You live a thousand years . . . .
 . . .
 .(long pause) . .and I don't ever die!

 Best regards,
 Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist

 -Original Message-
 From: Mike Monett [mailto:31dtzj...@sneakemail.com]
 Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 9:39 PM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


 url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63227.html
 RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms
 From: Richard Harris
 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:31:58

 Hi Turtle,

 My heart  goes  out to you  Mike and all  your  loved  ones. Many
 people are  sensitive to cat dander as well as mold  spores. There
 are new room air filters that are satisfactory for most  people in
 a limited space. Some wag once suggested that the only sure way to
 remove fleas  from a house is to give away or shoot  the  dogs 
 cats   burn the house. I certainly hope your  problems  don't get
 that severe.  If your home is air conditioned, you  can  have an
 infra-red light  installed that will even kill anthax  as  well as
 most other air-borne problems including mold.

 Best of luck to all of you.

 Mike, for  your headaches, have you tried wetting  a  folded paper
 towel or cloth with CS and placing on forehead over eyes for a few
 minutes--sometimes that's efeective even for migraines.

 Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist

   Hi Richard,

   Thank you for your kind thoughts. I second Jonathan's post - finally
   we have  someone with extensive knowledge and experience  in  a very
   rare specialty.  Your  posts will be invaluable to  everyone  on the
   list.

   The headaches  seem to be caused by spores and not by the  toxic gas
   produced by the fungus. I have a highly-modified HEPA face mask that
   combines the  best features of the 3M valves with  the  light weight
   and tight fit of the Northill. (Darned engineers can't  stop finding
   ways to improve things, can we:)

   Anyway, the  slightest  exposure  to  spores  gives  a  very violent
   headache, nothing  like I've experienced before. I used to  get this
   when I  made  the  bed  - flipping  the  sheets

RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Richard Harris]

Thanks, Hank!
I recall trying it about a week ago  had to do the same thing you did 
promptly forgot about it.
Jonathan, please try again  click cancel when my site gets pushy. I believe
it's related to my Seasilver sites at top of my first page--I am an
associate selling Seasilver--FDA  FTC closed them down, taking their
records  inventory--charging them with making false claims  false
advertising. After jumping through the bureaucratic hoops, they now are
manufacturing  shipping again. Every health food outfit can look forward to
this same treatment  hope  pray they'll be able to get out  resume
business. Seasilver was so large until they were the ideal target. Pity that
our great country has so many stupid, heartless rascals in positiions of
power and boy do they love to use it! Seasilver had to withdraw all
advertising  cancelled my free e-mail sites that I had attached to my site
www.rharrisinc.com One day I had 4 beautiful pages of impressive Seasilver
advertising and the next day, it vanished. At present, when you click on my
page 1,  click on the top line will open to Seasilver again, though not
complete nor as impressive.
Man, you guys struck a nerve, didn't you?
Best regards,
Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist

-Original Message-
From: Hank [mailto:h...@arkansas.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:39 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms


I went to all his pages, Just clicked cancel when it ask for the password.

Sincerely Yours,
Hank
http://www.babelmagazine.com/
http://members.fortunecity.com/hdka/menact.html


- Original Message -
From: Jonathan B. Britten jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms


 Hi, Richard,

 Thanks for the link and for the nice message.

 Unfortunately,  in trying to view the pages on your site,  I keep
 getting a demand to log in and provide a password.Is there a way to
 access your page without going through that routine?   I have too many
 passwords as it is.
  Thanks in advance!


 JBB




 On Thursday, Oct 9, 2003, at 23:31 Asia/Tokyo, Richard Harris wrote:

  Hi Jonathan  Mike,
 
  My humble thanks to each of you for acknowledging information from
  each of
  us offered in love and
  empathy to those with problems about which many of us have been
  touched!
 
  Jonathan, your suggestion about the EMHealth Group at Yahoo will be
  priceless to all of us that are still learning and sharing (me at age
  80).
  God has blessed me so richly until I Have to continually seek to serve
  
  share with others.
  
  I have a website: www.rharrisinc.com , the last page offers Free
  consulting
  on questions I might be able to help that might not be suitable for
  group
  use; however, if the subject might have use for several readers, this
  list
  is the ideal place--I'll reply to either.


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Trem]

- Original Message -
From: Mike Monett 31dtzj...@sneakemail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: [silver_list] Re: CSRe: Measuring very high ppms



   The Hanna PWT would be an excellent method if I could find  some way
   to guarantee  the calibration. Steve Young's idea to  make resistive
   standards might be an excellent solution.

 Mike Monett

Mike,

The meter can easily be calibrated if you use the calibration solution from
Hanna.  I got one box of 16 bottles of solution that was defective and Ken
got one of the bottles.  It was the only batch I have gotten that was
defective in many years.  I think you can generally trust the solution to do
what it was intended to doallow calibration of the PWT.

It will be very difficult to use a standard resistor since the sensing
electrodes are not easily accessible and the meter would have to be
disassembled to get at the electronics.  Not something the average person
would want to do.  And it's really not a good idea when all one has to do is
use the factory solution.

Trem




 --
 The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

 Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

 To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

 Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

 List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63355.html
CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Trem
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:27:45

   Mike,

   The meter  can  easily be calibrated if  you  use  the calibration
   solution from Hanna. I got one box of 16 bottles of  solution that
   was defective  and  Ken got one of the bottles.  It  was  the only
   batch I have gotten that was defective in many years. I  think you
   can generally  trust  the solution to do what it  was  intended to
   doallow calibration of the PWT.

   It will  be  very difficult to use a standard  resistor  since the
   sensing electrodes  are not easily accessible and the  meter would
   have to  be disassembled to get at the electronics.  Not something
   the average  person would want to do. And it's really  not  a good
   idea when all one has to do is use the factory solution.

   Trem

  Hi Trem,

  Thanks for  the update. A calibration solution may be  accurate, but
  there's no way to know that for sure. A mistake can occur during the
  dilution, it  can  be contaminated somehow, or perhaps  some  of the
  water may evaporate over time and change the reading.

  Steve Young  posted  a  table of  salt  concentrations  and resistor
  values some time ago. Ivan did also.

  The salt  dilutions  look  scary.   Any  mistake  would  destroy the
  accuracy. I'm not good enough to tackle that.

  The resistor  method  is probably the most  accurate,  but  it would
  require knowing  the cell calibration factor. I don't  have  a Hanna
  yet, but  I understand it uses a special multiple  probe arrangement
  (the details escape me at the moment.)

  I understand  the probes have a small area, so  the  actual resistor
  value would  be  larger  than the  standard  table  shows.  Also the
  calibration constant might be different for each probe due to slight
  mechanical tolerances.

  I found a manual for the hi98308 at

https://www705.vwh1.net/hanna4/downloads/instr/hi98308.pdf

  It shows how to replace the electrode assembly, HI73308

  I don't  know  what is inside the electrode assembly,  but  from the
  pictures there  seems to be a temperature sensor  and  two terminals
  marked (1) in the diagram.

  These terminals  look  quite large and sturdy. I'd  have  to  get my
  Hanna to take a look, but there might be a simple way to gain access
  to them.

  If so, I can diddle with external resistors to find  the calibration
  constant for the unit for various readings. Once I know  the values,
  I can refer to them later if I think there might be a problem.

  Since little  old  ladies   are   allowed  to  change  the electrode
  assembly, I don't think I would have any problems taking it apart as
  instructed.

  The instructions  are given in the manual so people  can  change the
  electrode assembly when it becomes degraded.

  As a  matter of curiosity, how do you tell the difference  between a
  degraded cell and a bad calibration solution?
 
Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
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CSTrem; was RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Vince Richter]

Trem, since the subject came up, how much difference does the
calibration temperature make?  I know the cal needs to be done at a
certain temp.  Would there be a ballpark correlation between calibration
error and temp. deviation from the standard during calibration?  Is
there a uS per degree F deviation ballpark error (in the 10-20 uS
range)?  The reason I ask is that I have both the PWT and the cal
solution.  I haven't used the solution yet because I have no reason to
believe it's out of cal.  The uS I read in my CS was within 1 ppm of the
ppm CS Ole Bob measured.  When the time comes and I calibrate my meter,
I wondered how meticulous I need to be, and how much difference a few
degrees would make.

Thanks, Vince

-Original Message-
From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 4:21 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CSMeasuring very high ppms


- Original Message -
From: Mike Monett 31dtzj...@sneakemail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: [silver_list] Re: CSRe: Measuring very high ppms



   The Hanna PWT would be an excellent method if I could find  some way
   to guarantee  the calibration. Steve Young's idea to  make resistive
   standards might be an excellent solution.

 Mike Monett

Mike,

The meter can easily be calibrated if you use the calibration solution
from
Hanna.  I got one box of 16 bottles of solution that was defective and
Ken
got one of the bottles.  It was the only batch I have gotten that was
defective in many years.  I think you can generally trust the solution
to do
what it was intended to doallow calibration of the PWT.

It will be very difficult to use a standard resistor since the sensing
electrodes are not easily accessible and the meter would have to be
disassembled to get at the electronics.  Not something the average
person
would want to do.  And it's really not a good idea when all one has to
do is
use the factory solution.

Trem



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Re: CSTrem; was RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[S J Young]

Vince,

One of the features of the PWT is that it senses the temperature of the
solution being measured and does an automatic temperature compensation.  You
shouldn't need to be concerned with the temperature of the calibration fluid
for normal room temperatures.
--Steve Y.
- Original Message -
From: Vince Richter cvin...@ala.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:13 PM
Subject: CSTrem; was RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


 Trem, since the subject came up, how much difference does the
 calibration temperature make?  I know the cal needs to be done at a
 certain temp.  Would there be a ballpark correlation between calibration
 error and temp. deviation from the standard during calibration?  Is
 there a uS per degree F deviation ballpark error (in the 10-20 uS
 range)?  The reason I ask is that I have both the PWT and the cal
 solution.  I haven't used the solution yet because I have no reason to
 believe it's out of cal.  The uS I read in my CS was within 1 ppm of the
 ppm CS Ole Bob measured.  When the time comes and I calibrate my meter,
 I wondered how meticulous I need to be, and how much difference a few
 degrees would make.

 Thanks, Vince

 -Original Message-
 From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com]
 Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 4:21 PM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: CSMeasuring very high ppms


 - Original Message -
 From: Mike Monett 31dtzj...@sneakemail.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 1:41 PM
 Subject: [silver_list] Re: CSRe: Measuring very high ppms


 
The Hanna PWT would be an excellent method if I could find  some way
to guarantee  the calibration. Steve Young's idea to  make resistive
standards might be an excellent solution.

  Mike Monett

 Mike,

 The meter can easily be calibrated if you use the calibration solution
 from
 Hanna.  I got one box of 16 bottles of solution that was defective and
 Ken
 got one of the bottles.  It was the only batch I have gotten that was
 defective in many years.  I think you can generally trust the solution
 to do
 what it was intended to doallow calibration of the PWT.

 It will be very difficult to use a standard resistor since the sensing
 electrodes are not easily accessible and the meter would have to be
 disassembled to get at the electronics.  Not something the average
 person
 would want to do.  And it's really not a good idea when all one has to
 do is
 use the factory solution.

 Trem



 --
 The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

 Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

 To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

 Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

 List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSTrem; was RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63372.html
Re: CSTrem; was RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: S  J Young
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:11:52

   Vince,

   One of  the features of the PWT is that it senses  the temperature
   of the  solution being measured and does an  automatic temperature
   compensation. You  shouldn't   need   to   be  concerned  with the
   temperature of the calibration fluid for normal room temperatures.

   Steve Y.

  Hi Steve,

  Boy am  I  glad  to  see you again! I  found  your  post  on  a 160V
  regulator at

http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m29691.html

  Congratulations on such a great idea. I'm very impressed.

  I tried to find if anyone else ever built your regulator, but that's
  hard to  do with over 64k posts. I found a few people asked  for the
  schematic, like Robert, but it's hard to see what happened later.

  Your idea  was  excellent. I sure wish more  people  had  built your
  system and  used it. It would have made Bob Lee's  calculations much
  easier, and would have greatly improved the repeatability  of making
  cs.

  The schematic was discarded when your post was archived. Just out of
  curiosity, which transistor did you use?

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Ode Coyote]

At 06:19 PM 10/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63187.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Ode Coyote
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:39:19

   Colloidal Copper is said to be more effective on molds and fungi.

  Yes, I find it much more effective. But it doesn't last  long, maybe
  a day  or  less.  It's a constant battle, but I  can  now  get brief
  periods with no headaches. How glorious this is, I can't tell you.

   Copper sulphates have been used for that for ages, I  believe. How
   did you make your collidal copper?

  Each electrode is 3 feet of 12 ga house wiring folded into a  W. The
  wetted area is about 5.5 sq.in. I tried different  current densities
  and am now running at 144 uA/sq.in.

   I've copper  electrodes  for hours on end and never  got  a  TE or
   conductivity rise  to  go  over 3 uS [But I did  get  a  blue grey
   precipitate] Same with zinc ... without the precipitate.

  Yes, I monitor the cell voltage and calculate the ppm. As soon as it
  hits 3 ppm calculated, the cathode starts turning dark and  the cell
  voltage flattens out.
  So 3 ppm calculated seem to be a hard limit for copper electrolysis.
OK, So you have found as have I that 3 PPM is about the upper limit for
CC..or really ionic copper..as I have been unable to make anything that has
even a hint of a TE.

 A while back I made a generator with a 1/8th  x 3 3/8 stainless steel
cathode in the center and 3 anodes surrounding it at the same length, one
of 12 gauge silver wire, one of 10 gauge zinc wire and one of 10 gauge
copper wire. If I recall, I was running it at .7ma and no stirring.
 I think I'll go find it again.  :-)


..At  some point, the Ag+ and OH- ions  start  combining to
  form silver  hydroxide  and  silver oxide.  I  posted  the equations
  earlier.

  But when  you put H2O2 on plain silver, the reaction  is  very slow.
  For example,  you  get a gray sludge on the cathode  at  low current
  density. As  you  explained,  this  is  pure  silver  covering small
  hydrogen bubbles.

  When you shake it off into the water, the bits fall to the bottom.
### and the bits eventually dissipate releasing a cloud of particles just
like the so called 'ion cloud' as the hydrogen bubbles dissolve into the water

  If you add H2O2 to the cs, bubbles start appearing and the tiny bits
  start rising  to the surface. When the bubble breaks, the  bits fall
  back down. This will go on for days.

  So the reaction of H2O2 on pure silver is completely  different than
  on silver oxides. The H2O2 breaks down to water instead of acting as
  a catalyst. I posted the equations earlier.

  Now, when  you  get a yellow tint to the cs and add  a  tiny  bit of
  H2O2, the   tint   disappears   and   the   solution   remains clear
  indefinitely.

  So this  confirms what we learned by evaporating cs and  adding H2O2
  to the black stuff. The reason for the yellow tint is silver oxides,
  and not elemental silver particles.

##  I have found that whatever makes the yellow tint will eventually stick
to the glass of the container leaving the water colorless.
 This probably has something to do with the larger mass of the large
particles impacting the container sides and sticking there while the small
particles just keep swimming around.

 If the water is then poured off and peroxide is placed on the deposit, it
vanishes instantly.

 The reaction is very much like when an oxide blackened electrode is placed
in peroxide, which leads me to conjecture that the yellow color of the
particles has something to do with the inclusion of oxides in that crystal
structure.
 There just may be a whole range of crystal structures containing both
oxides and hydroxides that key in with various particle sizes...not that
any particular structure actually has a color as in pigment but that the
composition of the crystal may have something to do with the size limit and
range of the particle and it's reflective/refractive properties.

 When I use peroxide in CS, the TE increases...often taking on a faint
bluish hue in full spectrum [sun] light.
  I think that maybe the peroxide is breaking the crystal structure apart
producing both smaller particles AND releasing ions.

 I've used as little as 4 drops of peroxide in a quart of violet colored CS
to clear it, but it took many days.

 I mentioned making silver flakes while using peroxide as a starter [don't
recall how much..I don't pay much attention to what I consider total
failures].
 I let that batch sit around for over a year and look at it now and
then...just because it was pretty.
 For the first few months it remained unchanged. I could shake it up and
see that pretty snowfall effect like a paper weight thingie. Water was
colorless with no visible TE [if I remember]

 Then a fuzzy fluffy white precipitate formed out of the shiney flakes on
the bottom as the water turned yellowish.

 After several more months the water went clear with no color..but it's

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Marshall Dudley]

Ode Coyote wrote:

 At 06:19 PM 10/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
 url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63187.html
 Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
 From: Ode Coyote
 Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:39:19
 
Colloidal Copper is said to be more effective on molds and fungi.
 
   Yes, I find it much more effective. But it doesn't last  long, maybe
   a day  or  less.  It's a constant battle, but I  can  now  get brief
   periods with no headaches. How glorious this is, I can't tell you.
 
Copper sulphates have been used for that for ages, I  believe. How
did you make your collidal copper?
 
   Each electrode is 3 feet of 12 ga house wiring folded into a  W. The
   wetted area is about 5.5 sq.in. I tried different  current densities
   and am now running at 144 uA/sq.in.
 
I've copper  electrodes  for hours on end and never  got  a  TE or
conductivity rise  to  go  over 3 uS [But I did  get  a  blue grey
precipitate] Same with zinc ... without the precipitate.
 
   Yes, I monitor the cell voltage and calculate the ppm. As soon as it
   hits 3 ppm calculated, the cathode starts turning dark and  the cell
   voltage flattens out.
   So 3 ppm calculated seem to be a hard limit for copper electrolysis.
 OK, So you have found as have I that 3 PPM is about the upper limit for
 CC..or really ionic copper..as I have been unable to make anything that has
 even a hint of a TE.

  A while back I made a generator with a 1/8th  x 3 3/8 stainless steel
 cathode in the center and 3 anodes surrounding it at the same length, one
 of 12 gauge silver wire, one of 10 gauge zinc wire and one of 10 gauge
 copper wire. If I recall, I was running it at .7ma and no stirring.
  I think I'll go find it again.  :-)
 

 ..At  some point, the Ag+ and OH- ions  start  combining to
   form silver  hydroxide  and  silver oxide.  I  posted  the equations
   earlier.
 
   But when  you put H2O2 on plain silver, the reaction  is  very slow.
   For example,  you  get a gray sludge on the cathode  at  low current
   density. As  you  explained,  this  is  pure  silver  covering small
   hydrogen bubbles.
 
   When you shake it off into the water, the bits fall to the bottom.
 ### and the bits eventually dissipate releasing a cloud of particles just
 like the so called 'ion cloud' as the hydrogen bubbles dissolve into the water
 
   If you add H2O2 to the cs, bubbles start appearing and the tiny bits
   start rising  to the surface. When the bubble breaks, the  bits fall
   back down. This will go on for days.
 
   So the reaction of H2O2 on pure silver is completely  different than
   on silver oxides. The H2O2 breaks down to water instead of acting as
   a catalyst. I posted the equations earlier.
 
   Now, when  you  get a yellow tint to the cs and add  a  tiny  bit of
   H2O2, the   tint   disappears   and   the   solution   remains clear
   indefinitely.

   So this  confirms what we learned by evaporating cs and  adding H2O2
   to the black stuff. The reason for the yellow tint is silver oxides,
   and not elemental silver particles.

 ##  I have found that whatever makes the yellow tint will eventually stick
 to the glass of the container leaving the water colorless.
  This probably has something to do with the larger mass of the large
 particles impacting the container sides and sticking there while the small
 particles just keep swimming around.

  If the water is then poured off and peroxide is placed on the deposit, it
 vanishes instantly.

I believe that the H2O2 oxidizes the silver producing silver oxide, which is
slightly soluble, and thus dissolves in the peroxide.  Also it is possible that
silver oxide is much more soluble in peroxide than in water, but can find no
information on that.


  The reaction is very much like when an oxide blackened electrode is placed
 in peroxide, which leads me to conjecture that the yellow color of the
 particles has something to do with the inclusion of oxides in that crystal
 structure.

I have doubts that the deposit is silver oxide, since silver oxide is somewhat
water soluble.  It is likely silver peroxide, which is totally insoluble in
water.  I believe the likely explaination is that silver peroxide is soluble in
H2O2.


  There just may be a whole range of crystal structures containing both
 oxides and hydroxides that key in with various particle sizes...not that
 any particular structure actually has a color as in pigment but that the
 composition of the crystal may have something to do with the size limit and
 range of the particle and it's reflective/refractive properties.

  When I use peroxide in CS, the TE increases...often taking on a faint
 bluish hue in full spectrum [sun] light.
   I think that maybe the peroxide is breaking the crystal structure apart
 producing both smaller particles AND releasing ions.

That is another possibility.



  I've used as little as 4 drops of peroxide in a quart of violet colored CS
 to clear it, but it took many days

RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Richard Harris]

Hi Jonathan  Mike,

My humble thanks to each of you for acknowledging information from each of
us offered in love and
empathy to those with problems about which many of us have been touched!

Jonathan, your suggestion about the EMHealth Group at Yahoo will be
priceless to all of us that are still learning and sharing (me at age 80).
God has blessed me so richly until I Have to continually seek to serve 
share with others.

Mike you have added so much to us newbies from your wealth of knowledge
since I found this wonderful, informative Group! My continual Thanks to you
and so many others who stand head and shoulders above the average knowledge
so many of us are seeking.

Mike, have you considered soaking one of your used face masks in CS? Perhaps
better than the soaks I already mentioned.

I have a website: www.rharrisinc.com , the last page offers Free consulting
on questions I might be able to help that might not be suitable for group
use; however, if the subject might have use for several readers, this list
is the ideal place--I'll reply to either.

May each of you, together with all others sharing, be rewarded with a happy,
healthy life for many years! A long time black friend (long deceased) once
expressed as he was leaving, I hope You live a thousand years . . . . . . .
.(long pause) . .and I don't ever die!

Best regards,
Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist

-Original Message-
From: Mike Monett [mailto:31dtzj...@sneakemail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 9:39 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63227.html
RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Richard Harris
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:31:58

   Hi Turtle,

   My heart  goes  out to you  Mike and all  your  loved  ones. Many
   people are  sensitive to cat dander as well as mold  spores. There
   are new room air filters that are satisfactory for most  people in
   a limited space. Some wag once suggested that the only sure way to
   remove fleas  from a house is to give away or shoot  the  dogs 
   cats   burn the house. I certainly hope your  problems  don't get
   that severe.  If your home is air conditioned, you  can  have an
   infra-red light  installed that will even kill anthax  as  well as
   most other air-borne problems including mold.

   Best of luck to all of you.

   Mike, for  your headaches, have you tried wetting  a  folded paper
   towel or cloth with CS and placing on forehead over eyes for a few
   minutes--sometimes that's efeective even for migraines.

   Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist

  Hi Richard,

  Thank you for your kind thoughts. I second Jonathan's post - finally
  we have  someone with extensive knowledge and experience  in  a very
  rare specialty.  Your  posts will be invaluable to  everyone  on the
  list.

  The headaches  seem to be caused by spores and not by the  toxic gas
  produced by the fungus. I have a highly-modified HEPA face mask that
  combines the  best features of the 3M valves with  the  light weight
  and tight fit of the Northill. (Darned engineers can't  stop finding
  ways to improve things, can we:)

  Anyway, the  slightest  exposure  to  spores  gives  a  very violent
  headache, nothing  like I've experienced before. I used to  get this
  when I  made  the  bed  - flipping  the  sheets  and  blankets would
  disperse the spores, and the fun would start.

  The HEPA  filter stops them, but not the vapor they  produce.  So it
  seems the  problem  really  is spores  from  fungus  growing  in the
  fabric, and  it  is very tough to kill. The spores  are  coated with
  chitin, the same material that provides the exoskeleton  of insects,
  lobsters, and many other forms of life. It seems to  be invulnerable
  to normal acids and bases.

  The toxins  seem to have a special path to the headache  machine. No
  conventional remedy has any effect whatsoever.

  Your idea  of using cs on a pad never occurred to me - see  - that's
  where your vast experience is so valuable.

  I'll give it a try and see what happens. Thanks!

  Just a note on using UV to kill spores - I've seen reports  that UVB
  might be  helpful since it is a shorter wavelength than UVA. But the
  light cannot  penetrate deep into fabrics or other material,  so any
  hidden spores might not see the effects.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


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List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Dan Nave]

 Jonathan B. Britten wrote:
 
I for one can deal with scientific subjects so long as the author makes a 
small effort to avoid unnecessary jargon, and use plain English whenever 
possible. 

I am looking forward to many postings apropos the advantages and disadvantages 
of CS from the viewpoint of the man behind the counter. . . . 

**

What does apropos mean?  ;-))

Dan





--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[CKing001]

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 09:47:01 -0500, Dan Nave dn...@mn.nilfisk-advance.com
wrote:

What does apropos mean?  ;-))

Dan

ap·ro·pos (ap'r?-po') 
adj.

Being at once opportune and to the point. See synonyms at relevant.

adv.
At an appropriate time; opportunely.
By the way; incidentally: Apropos, where were you yesterday?
prep.
With regard to; concerning: Apropos our date for lunch, I can't go.

[French à propos : à, to (from Old French afrom Latin ad-; see ad–) + propos,
purpose (from Latin propositum, neuter past participle of proponere, to intend;
see propose).]




 The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2003 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin
Company. All rights reserved. 
 


Chuck

Sub-space communications--the next best thing to beaming there 




--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Jonathan B. Britten]

Hi, Richard,

Thanks for the link and for the nice message.

Unfortunately,  in trying to view the pages on your site,  I keep 
getting a demand to log in and provide a password.Is there a way to 
access your page without going through that routine?   I have too many 
passwords as it is.


Perhaps list members would be grateful for a  single login name and 
password for everyone on the list,  unless there are real security and 
privacy issues that necessitate individual log-ins.


Thanks in advance!


JBB




On Thursday, Oct 9, 2003, at 23:31 Asia/Tokyo, Richard Harris wrote:


Hi Jonathan  Mike,

My humble thanks to each of you for acknowledging information from 
each of

us offered in love and
empathy to those with problems about which many of us have been 
touched!


Jonathan, your suggestion about the EMHealth Group at Yahoo will be
priceless to all of us that are still learning and sharing (me at age 
80).
God has blessed me so richly until I Have to continually seek to serve 


share with others.

Mike you have added so much to us newbies from your wealth of knowledge
since I found this wonderful, informative Group! My continual Thanks 
to you
and so many others who stand head and shoulders above the average 
knowledge

so many of us are seeking.

Mike, have you considered soaking one of your used face masks in CS? 
Perhaps

better than the soaks I already mentioned.

I have a website: www.rharrisinc.com , the last page offers Free 
consulting
on questions I might be able to help that might not be suitable for 
group
use; however, if the subject might have use for several readers, this 
list

is the ideal place--I'll reply to either.

May each of you, together with all others sharing, be rewarded with a 
happy,
healthy life for many years! A long time black friend (long deceased) 
once
expressed as he was leaving, I hope You live a thousand years . . . . 
. . .

.(long pause) . .and I don't ever die!

Best regards,
Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist

-Original Message-
From: Mike Monett [mailto:31dtzj...@sneakemail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 9:39 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63227.html
RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Richard Harris
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:31:58


Hi Turtle,



My heart  goes  out to you  Mike and all  your  loved  ones. Many
people are  sensitive to cat dander as well as mold  spores. There
are new room air filters that are satisfactory for most  people in
a limited space. Some wag once suggested that the only sure way to
remove fleas  from a house is to give away or shoot  the  dogs 
cats   burn the house. I certainly hope your  problems  don't get
that severe.  If your home is air conditioned, you  can  have an
infra-red light  installed that will even kill anthax  as  well as
most other air-borne problems including mold.



Best of luck to all of you.



Mike, for  your headaches, have you tried wetting  a  folded paper
towel or cloth with CS and placing on forehead over eyes for a few
minutes--sometimes that's efeective even for migraines.



Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist


  Hi Richard,

  Thank you for your kind thoughts. I second Jonathan's post - finally
  we have  someone with extensive knowledge and experience  in  a very
  rare specialty.  Your  posts will be invaluable to  everyone  on the
  list.

  The headaches  seem to be caused by spores and not by the  toxic gas
  produced by the fungus. I have a highly-modified HEPA face mask that
  combines the  best features of the 3M valves with  the  light weight
  and tight fit of the Northill. (Darned engineers can't  stop finding
  ways to improve things, can we:)

  Anyway, the  slightest  exposure  to  spores  gives  a  very violent
  headache, nothing  like I've experienced before. I used to  get this
  when I  made  the  bed  - flipping  the  sheets  and  blankets would
  disperse the spores, and the fun would start.

  The HEPA  filter stops them, but not the vapor they  produce.  So it
  seems the  problem  really  is spores  from  fungus  growing  in the
  fabric, and  it  is very tough to kill. The spores  are  coated with
  chitin, the same material that provides the exoskeleton  of insects,
  lobsters, and many other forms of life. It seems to  be invulnerable
  to normal acids and bases.

  The toxins  seem to have a special path to the headache  machine. No
  conventional remedy has any effect whatsoever.

  Your idea  of using cs on a pad never occurred to me - see  - that's
  where your vast experience is so valuable.

  I'll give it a try and see what happens. Thanks!

  Just a note on using UV to kill spores - I've seen reports  that UVB
  might be  helpful since it is a shorter wavelength than UVA. But the
  light cannot  penetrate deep into fabrics or other material,  so any
  hidden spores might not see the effects.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Hank]

I went to all his pages, Just clicked cancel when it ask for the password.

Sincerely Yours,
Hank
http://www.babelmagazine.com/
http://members.fortunecity.com/hdka/menact.html


- Original Message - 
From: Jonathan B. Britten jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms


 Hi, Richard,
 
 Thanks for the link and for the nice message.
 
 Unfortunately,  in trying to view the pages on your site,  I keep 
 getting a demand to log in and provide a password.Is there a way to 
 access your page without going through that routine?   I have too many 
 passwords as it is.
  Thanks in advance!
 
 
 JBB
 
 
 
 
 On Thursday, Oct 9, 2003, at 23:31 Asia/Tokyo, Richard Harris wrote:
 
  Hi Jonathan  Mike,
 
  My humble thanks to each of you for acknowledging information from 
  each of
  us offered in love and
  empathy to those with problems about which many of us have been 
  touched!
 
  Jonathan, your suggestion about the EMHealth Group at Yahoo will be
  priceless to all of us that are still learning and sharing (me at age 
  80).
  God has blessed me so richly until I Have to continually seek to serve 
  
  share with others.
  
  I have a website: www.rharrisinc.com , the last page offers Free 
  consulting
  on questions I might be able to help that might not be suitable for 
  group
  use; however, if the subject might have use for several readers, this 
  list
  is the ideal place--I'll reply to either.


--
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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63306.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Jonathan B. Britten
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:36:48

   Hi, Richard,

   Thanks for the link and for the nice message.

   Unfortunately, in  trying to view the pages on your  site,  I keep
   getting a demand to log in and provide a password. Is there  a way
   to access your page without going through that routine? I have too
   many passwords as it is.

  [...]

  Hi Jonathan,

  I have no trouble going to any page on Richard's site, using the url
  he posted.

  One little thing I noticed is the image link to Richard's picture is
  broken on his bio page:

http://www.rharrisinc.com/bio.html

  The link has a backslash instead of a forward slash:

http://www.rharrisinc.com/images\rharris_oval.gif

  It works fine when that is fixed.

  A very distinguished gentleman. Kind, honest, trustworthy,  and very
  gentle. Kind  of  hard to believe anyone would want  to  toss mortar
  shells at someone like that.

  I didn't try to load any other images, so there may be a few more   
with the same problem.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
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List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[turtle]

Hi Mike,
Can you, are any one on the list tell me how you measure
for mold spores?

I live with my wife and 3 cats, we all have allergy/flu
type symptoms.
Have been taking CS for a couple of months.

TIA,
turtle

 
   Hi Ken,
 
   I'm sorry  I have not been able to respond to  your  posts
 recently.
   They force me to think, and the headaches from the mold
 spores made
   that impossible. So I tackled the easy ones, like solar
 flares:)
snip.


--
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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63219.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: turtle
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:20:23

   Hi Mike,

   Can you, are any one on the list tell me how you measure  for mold
   spores?

   I live  with  my  wife and 3 cats, we  all  have  allergy/flu type
   symptoms. Have been taking CS for a couple of months.

   TIA,
   turtle

  Hi turtle,

  I found CS has no effect on mold symptoms.

  Mold spores can have unpredictable effects. If you become sensitized
  due to  high  exposure, it is probably permanent. It  can  ruin your
  health and your life.

  So I would take any symptoms very seriously. I didn't, and I learned
  too late what can happen.

  There are  so-called mold exterminators that might  come  and sample
  the air and try to con you into expensive treatments. Stay away from
  them. Every  home has mold spores and their sample will  always turn
  out positive.

  The question  is  what is a safe level. Nobody really  knows.  It is
  highly up  to an individual's bilogical makeup, and that  can change
  over time as the spores start degrading your immune system.

  If you  go  out shopping for a couple of hours, and get  a  whiff of
  musty odor when you return and first open the door, mold  is growing
  somewhere in the house.

  If your  symptoms go away when you leave the house for  a  couple of
  days, and appear when you return, I'd start thinking seriously about
  the consequences and about moving.

  If you  have an old home, chances are the basement  is  not finished
  properly and  may  be damp. This is how I got  into  trouble.  It is
  impossible to keep mold from growing when moisture is available. The
  spores will grow on anything. The ones that did me grow on concrete,
  and extract  sulphur  from  the  concrete.  They  literally  ate the
  concrete away.

  Be very  careful about the claims some people make to  stop  mold. I
  found many  sites  that simply have no idea what  they  were talking
  about.

  I'm sorry  - I have too bad a headache and can't continue.  Here's a
  url that might give some more useful information:

  http://www.mold-survivor.com/

  Mold is deadly. I'd take it very seriously if you are showing any of
  the typical symptoms. You can find a list at the above url, and also
  on some of the EPA pages on mold.

  On the  other hand, it could be something  else  completely harmless
  and easily treated. But do more research to find out for sure.

  BTW, Doctors  don't have a clue about mold. You need to do  your own
  research and find out yourself what is going on.

  I hope this helps, and that you always stay in good health.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

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Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[James Holmes]

Hello,

A friend---60s good health generally---was diagnosed by regular western MDs
as having pulmonary mold; nothing further.  He was sick for months with an
unproductive cough and he lost 25 pounds.

Three days of occasional use of  Brooks' group's airbrush with CSPro HVAC 10
mg/L driven with O2 and he was almost symptom free.   In a week he showed no
symptoms and has remained symptom free for more than two years.


JOH


-Original Message-
From: Mike Monett [mailto:31dtzj...@sneakemail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 1:06 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms



url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63219.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: turtle
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:20:23

   Hi Mike,

   Can you, are any one on the list tell me how you measure  for mold
   spores?

   I live  with  my  wife and 3 cats, we  all  have  allergy/flu type
   symptoms. Have been taking CS for a couple of months.

   TIA,
   turtle

  Hi turtle,

  I found CS has no effect on mold symptoms.

  Mold spores can have unpredictable effects. If you become sensitized
  due to  high  exposure, it is probably permanent. It  can  ruin your
  health and your life.

  So I would take any symptoms very seriously. I didn't, and I learned
  too late what can happen.

  There are  so-called mold exterminators that might  come  and sample
  the air and try to con you into expensive treatments. Stay away from
  them. Every  home has mold spores and their sample will  always turn
  out positive.

  The question  is  what is a safe level. Nobody really  knows.  It is
  highly up  to an individual's bilogical makeup, and that  can change
  over time as the spores start degrading your immune system.

  If you  go  out shopping for a couple of hours, and get  a  whiff of
  musty odor when you return and first open the door, mold  is growing
  somewhere in the house.

  If your  symptoms go away when you leave the house for  a  couple of
  days, and appear when you return, I'd start thinking seriously about
  the consequences and about moving.

  If you  have an old home, chances are the basement  is  not finished
  properly and  may  be damp. This is how I got  into  trouble.  It is
  impossible to keep mold from growing when moisture is available. The
  spores will grow on anything. The ones that did me grow on concrete,
  and extract  sulphur  from  the  concrete.  They  literally  ate the
  concrete away.

  Be very  careful about the claims some people make to  stop  mold. I
  found many  sites  that simply have no idea what  they  were talking
  about.

  I'm sorry  - I have too bad a headache and can't continue.  Here's a
  url that might give some more useful information:

  http://www.mold-survivor.com/

  Mold is deadly. I'd take it very seriously if you are showing any of
  the typical symptoms. You can find a list at the above url, and also
  on some of the EPA pages on mold.

  On the  other hand, it could be something  else  completely harmless
  and easily treated. But do more research to find out for sure.

  BTW, Doctors  don't have a clue about mold. You need to do  your own
  research and find out yourself what is going on.

  I hope this helps, and that you always stay in good health.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Richard Harris]

Hi Turtle,
My heaqrt goes out to you  Mike and all your loved ones. Many people are
sensitive to cat dander as well as mold spores. There are new room air
filters that are satisfactory for most people in a limited space. Some wag
once suggested that the only sure way to remove fleas from a house is to
give away or shoot the dogs  cats  burn the house. I certainly hope your
problems don't get that severe. If your home is air conditioned, you can
have an infra-red light installed that will even kill anthax as well as most
other air-borne problems including mold.
Best of luck to all of you.
Mike, for your headaches, have you tried wetting a folded paper towel or
cloth with CS and placing on forehead over eyes for a few minutes--sometimes
that's efeective even for migraines.
Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist
-Original Message-
From: Mike Monett [mailto:31dtzj...@sneakemail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 3:06 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms


url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63219.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: turtle
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:20:23

   Hi Mike,

   Can you, are any one on the list tell me how you measure  for mold
   spores?

   I live  with  my  wife and 3 cats, we  all  have  allergy/flu type
   symptoms. Have been taking CS for a couple of months.

   TIA,
   turtle

  Hi turtle,

  I found CS has no effect on mold symptoms.

  Mold spores can have unpredictable effects. If you become sensitized
  due to  high  exposure, it is probably permanent. It  can  ruin your
  health and your life.

  So I would take any symptoms very seriously. I didn't, and I learned
  too late what can happen.

  There are  so-called mold exterminators that might  come  and sample
  the air and try to con you into expensive treatments. Stay away from
  them. Every  home has mold spores and their sample will  always turn
  out positive.

  The question  is  what is a safe level. Nobody really  knows.  It is
  highly up  to an individual's bilogical makeup, and that  can change
  over time as the spores start degrading your immune system.

  If you  go  out shopping for a couple of hours, and get  a  whiff of
  musty odor when you return and first open the door, mold  is growing
  somewhere in the house.

  If your  symptoms go away when you leave the house for  a  couple of
  days, and appear when you return, I'd start thinking seriously about
  the consequences and about moving.

  If you  have an old home, chances are the basement  is  not finished
  properly and  may  be damp. This is how I got  into  trouble.  It is
  impossible to keep mold from growing when moisture is available. The
  spores will grow on anything. The ones that did me grow on concrete,
  and extract  sulphur  from  the  concrete.  They  literally  ate the
  concrete away.

  Be very  careful about the claims some people make to  stop  mold. I
  found many  sites  that simply have no idea what  they  were talking
  about.

  I'm sorry  - I have too bad a headache and can't continue.  Here's a
  url that might give some more useful information:

  http://www.mold-survivor.com/

  Mold is deadly. I'd take it very seriously if you are showing any of
  the typical symptoms. You can find a list at the above url, and also
  on some of the EPA pages on mold.

  On the  other hand, it could be something  else  completely harmless
  and easily treated. But do more research to find out for sure.

  BTW, Doctors  don't have a clue about mold. You need to do  your own
  research and find out yourself what is going on.

  I hope this helps, and that you always stay in good health.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Richard Harris]

Sorry Turtle  Mike, that was an Ultra-violet light in the A/C system.

-Original Message-
From: Richard Harris [mailto:yr...@cfl.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:27 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


Hi Turtle,
My heaqrt goes out to you  Mike and all your loved ones. Many people are
sensitive to cat dander as well as mold spores. There are new room air
filters that are satisfactory for most people in a limited space. Some wag
once suggested that the only sure way to remove fleas from a house is to
give away or shoot the dogs  cats  burn the house. I certainly hope your
problems don't get that severe. If your home is air conditioned, you can
have an infra-red light installed that will even kill anthax as well as most
other air-borne problems including mold.
Best of luck to all of you.
Mike, for your headaches, have you tried wetting a folded paper towel or
cloth with CS and placing on forehead over eyes for a few minutes--sometimes
that's efeective even for migraines.
Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist
-Original Message-
From: Mike Monett [mailto:31dtzj...@sneakemail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 3:06 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms


url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63219.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: turtle
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:20:23

   Hi Mike,

   Can you, are any one on the list tell me how you measure  for mold
   spores?

   I live  with  my  wife and 3 cats, we  all  have  allergy/flu type
   symptoms. Have been taking CS for a couple of months.

   TIA,
   turtle

  Hi turtle,

  I found CS has no effect on mold symptoms.

  Mold spores can have unpredictable effects. If you become sensitized
  due to  high  exposure, it is probably permanent. It  can  ruin your
  health and your life.

  So I would take any symptoms very seriously. I didn't, and I learned
  too late what can happen.

  There are  so-called mold exterminators that might  come  and sample
  the air and try to con you into expensive treatments. Stay away from
  them. Every  home has mold spores and their sample will  always turn
  out positive.

  The question  is  what is a safe level. Nobody really  knows.  It is
  highly up  to an individual's bilogical makeup, and that  can change
  over time as the spores start degrading your immune system.

  If you  go  out shopping for a couple of hours, and get  a  whiff of
  musty odor when you return and first open the door, mold  is growing
  somewhere in the house.

  If your  symptoms go away when you leave the house for  a  couple of
  days, and appear when you return, I'd start thinking seriously about
  the consequences and about moving.

  If you  have an old home, chances are the basement  is  not finished
  properly and  may  be damp. This is how I got  into  trouble.  It is
  impossible to keep mold from growing when moisture is available. The
  spores will grow on anything. The ones that did me grow on concrete,
  and extract  sulphur  from  the  concrete.  They  literally  ate the
  concrete away.

  Be very  careful about the claims some people make to  stop  mold. I
  found many  sites  that simply have no idea what  they  were talking
  about.

  I'm sorry  - I have too bad a headache and can't continue.  Here's a
  url that might give some more useful information:

  http://www.mold-survivor.com/

  Mold is deadly. I'd take it very seriously if you are showing any of
  the typical symptoms. You can find a list at the above url, and also
  on some of the EPA pages on mold.

  On the  other hand, it could be something  else  completely harmless
  and easily treated. But do more research to find out for sure.

  BTW, Doctors  don't have a clue about mold. You need to do  your own
  research and find out yourself what is going on.

  I hope this helps, and that you always stay in good health.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Medwith, Robert]

Ultra-Violet and Infra-Red are they one and the same.
Both  are listed.
This sounds interesting How good is a Electronic air Cleaner mounted on 
Cold Air Return to furnace what will it take out. 

  Bob

-Original Message-
From: Richard Harris [mailto:yr...@cfl.rr.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:47 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Cc: Richard Harris
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


Sorry Turtle  Mike, that was an Ultra-violet light in the A/C system.

-Original Message-
From: Richard Harris [mailto:yr...@cfl.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:27 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


Hi Turtle,
My heaqrt goes out to you  Mike and all your loved ones. Many people are
sensitive to cat dander as well as mold spores. There are new room air
filters that are satisfactory for most people in a limited space. Some wag
once suggested that the only sure way to remove fleas from a house is to
give away or shoot the dogs  cats  burn the house. I certainly hope your
problems don't get that severe. If your home is air conditioned, you can
have an infra-red light installed that will even kill anthax as well as most
other air-borne problems including mold. Best of luck to all of you. Mike,
for your headaches, have you tried wetting a folded paper towel or cloth
with CS and placing on forehead over eyes for a few minutes--sometimes
that's efeective even for migraines. Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist
-Original Message-
From: Mike Monett [mailto:31dtzj...@sneakemail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 3:06 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms


url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63219.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: turtle
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:20:23

   Hi Mike,

   Can you, are any one on the list tell me how you measure  for mold
   spores?

   I live  with  my  wife and 3 cats, we  all  have  allergy/flu type
   symptoms. Have been taking CS for a couple of months.

   TIA,
   turtle

  Hi turtle,

  I found CS has no effect on mold symptoms.

  Mold spores can have unpredictable effects. If you become sensitized
  due to  high  exposure, it is probably permanent. It  can  ruin your
  health and your life.

  So I would take any symptoms very seriously. I didn't, and I learned
  too late what can happen.

  There are  so-called mold exterminators that might  come  and sample
  the air and try to con you into expensive treatments. Stay away from
  them. Every  home has mold spores and their sample will  always turn
  out positive.

  The question  is  what is a safe level. Nobody really  knows.  It is
  highly up  to an individual's bilogical makeup, and that  can change
  over time as the spores start degrading your immune system.

  If you  go  out shopping for a couple of hours, and get  a  whiff of
  musty odor when you return and first open the door, mold  is growing
  somewhere in the house.

  If your  symptoms go away when you leave the house for  a  couple of
  days, and appear when you return, I'd start thinking seriously about
  the consequences and about moving.

  If you  have an old home, chances are the basement  is  not finished
  properly and  may  be damp. This is how I got  into  trouble.  It is
  impossible to keep mold from growing when moisture is available. The
  spores will grow on anything. The ones that did me grow on concrete,
  and extract  sulphur  from  the  concrete.  They  literally  ate the
  concrete away.

  Be very  careful about the claims some people make to  stop  mold. I
  found many  sites  that simply have no idea what  they  were talking
  about.

  I'm sorry  - I have too bad a headache and can't continue.  Here's a
  url that might give some more useful information:

  http://www.mold-survivor.com/

  Mold is deadly. I'd take it very seriously if you are showing any of
  the typical symptoms. You can find a list at the above url, and also
  on some of the EPA pages on mold.

  On the  other hand, it could be something  else  completely harmless
  and easily treated. But do more research to find out for sure.

  BTW, Doctors  don't have a clue about mold. You need to do  your own
  research and find out yourself what is going on.

  I hope this helps, and that you always stay in good health.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[James Holmes]

Er...I  don't thik so.  
 
UV is the very short wavelengths of light, and IR is the very long
wavelengths.  They behave very differently.
 
JOH

-Original Message-
From: Medwith, Robert [mailto:robert.j.medw...@us.army.mil] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 9:23 AM
To: 'silver-list@eskimo.com'
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms



Ultra-Violet and Infra-Red are they one and the same. 
Both  are listed. 
This sounds interesting How good is a Electronic air Cleaner mounted on 
Cold Air Return to furnace what will it take out. 

  Bob 

-Original Message- 
From: Richard Harris [mailto:yr...@cfl.rr.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:47 AM 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Cc: Richard Harris 
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms 


Sorry Turtle  Mike, that was an Ultra-violet light in the A/C system. 

-Original Message- 
From: Richard Harris [mailto:yr...@cfl.rr.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:27 AM 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms 


Hi Turtle, 
My heaqrt goes out to you  Mike and all your loved ones. Many people are
sensitive to cat dander as well as mold spores. There are new room air
filters that are satisfactory for most people in a limited space. Some wag
once suggested that the only sure way to remove fleas from a house is to
give away or shoot the dogs  cats  burn the house. I certainly hope your
problems don't get that severe. If your home is air conditioned, you can
have an infra-red light installed that will even kill anthax as well as most
other air-borne problems including mold. Best of luck to all of you. Mike,
for your headaches, have you tried wetting a folded paper towel or cloth
with CS and placing on forehead over eyes for a few minutes--sometimes
that's efeective even for migraines. Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist
-Original Message-

From: Mike Monett [mailto:31dtzj...@sneakemail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 3:06 AM 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms 


url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63219.html 
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms 
From: turtle 
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:20:23 

   Hi Mike, 

   Can you, are any one on the list tell me how you measure  for mold 
   spores? 

   I live  with  my  wife and 3 cats, we  all  have  allergy/flu type 
   symptoms. Have been taking CS for a couple of months. 

   TIA, 
   turtle 

  Hi turtle, 

  I found CS has no effect on mold symptoms. 

  Mold spores can have unpredictable effects. If you become sensitized 
  due to  high  exposure, it is probably permanent. It  can  ruin your 
  health and your life. 

  So I would take any symptoms very seriously. I didn't, and I learned 
  too late what can happen. 

  There are  so-called mold exterminators that might  come  and sample 
  the air and try to con you into expensive treatments. Stay away from 
  them. Every  home has mold spores and their sample will  always turn 
  out positive. 

  The question  is  what is a safe level. Nobody really  knows.  It is 
  highly up  to an individual's bilogical makeup, and that  can change 
  over time as the spores start degrading your immune system. 

  If you  go  out shopping for a couple of hours, and get  a  whiff of 
  musty odor when you return and first open the door, mold  is growing 
  somewhere in the house. 

  If your  symptoms go away when you leave the house for  a  couple of 
  days, and appear when you return, I'd start thinking seriously about 
  the consequences and about moving. 

  If you  have an old home, chances are the basement  is  not finished 
  properly and  may  be damp. This is how I got  into  trouble.  It is 
  impossible to keep mold from growing when moisture is available. The 
  spores will grow on anything. The ones that did me grow on concrete, 
  and extract  sulphur  from  the  concrete.  They  literally  ate the 
  concrete away. 

  Be very  careful about the claims some people make to  stop  mold. I 
  found many  sites  that simply have no idea what  they  were talking 
  about. 

  I'm sorry  - I have too bad a headache and can't continue.  Here's a 
  url that might give some more useful information: 

  http://www.mold-survivor.com/ 

  Mold is deadly. I'd take it very seriously if you are showing any of 
  the typical symptoms. You can find a list at the above url, and also 
  on some of the EPA pages on mold. 

  On the  other hand, it could be something  else  completely harmless 
  and easily treated. But do more research to find out for sure. 

  BTW, Doctors  don't have a clue about mold. You need to do  your own 
  research and find out yourself what is going on. 

  I hope this helps, and that you always stay in good health. 

Best Regards, 

Mike Monett 


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The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. 

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org 

To post, address your message to: silver-list

RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Richard Harris]

RE: CSMeasuring very high ppmsBob,
I believe they would be 2 different things  mine IS ultra-violet--check
with your A/C people--they installed mine. It should take out  purify all
bad things in your air. If more info is needed, let me know. There is also a
small portable 1-room air cleaner unit for under $100.
Best regards,
Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist
  -Original Message-
  From: Medwith, Robert [mailto:robert.j.medw...@us.army.mil]
  Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 11:23 AM
  To: 'silver-list@eskimo.com'
  Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


  Ultra-Violet and Infra-Red are they one and the same.
  Both  are listed.
  This sounds interesting How good is a Electronic air Cleaner mounted on
  Cold Air Return to furnace what will it take out.

Bob

  -Original Message-
  From: Richard Harris [mailto:yr...@cfl.rr.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:47 AM
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Cc: Richard Harris
  Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms



  Sorry Turtle  Mike, that was an Ultra-violet light in the A/C system.

  -Original Message-
  From: Richard Harris [mailto:yr...@cfl.rr.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:27 AM
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms



  Hi Turtle,
  My heaqrt goes out to you  Mike and all your loved ones. Many people are
sensitive to cat dander as well as mold spores. There are new room air
filters that are satisfactory for most people in a limited space. Some wag
once suggested that the only sure way to remove fleas from a house is to
give away or shoot the dogs  cats  burn the house. I certainly hope your
problems don't get that severe. If your home is air conditioned, you can
have an infra-red light installed that will even kill anthax as well as most
other air-borne problems including mold. Best of luck to all of you. Mike,
for your headaches, have you tried wetting a folded paper towel or cloth
with CS and placing on forehead over eyes for a few minutes--sometimes
that's efeective even for migraines. Richard Harris, 56 yr FL
Pharmacist -Original Message-

  From: Mike Monett [mailto:31dtzj...@sneakemail.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 3:06 AM
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms



  url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63219.html
  Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
  From: turtle
  Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:20:23

 Hi Mike,

 Can you, are any one on the list tell me how you measure  for mold
 spores?

 I live  with  my  wife and 3 cats, we  all  have  allergy/flu type
 symptoms. Have been taking CS for a couple of months.

 TIA,
 turtle

Hi turtle,

I found CS has no effect on mold symptoms.

Mold spores can have unpredictable effects. If you become sensitized
due to  high  exposure, it is probably permanent. It  can  ruin your
health and your life.

So I would take any symptoms very seriously. I didn't, and I learned
too late what can happen.

There are  so-called mold exterminators that might  come  and sample
the air and try to con you into expensive treatments. Stay away from
them. Every  home has mold spores and their sample will  always turn
out positive.

The question  is  what is a safe level. Nobody really  knows.  It is
highly up  to an individual's bilogical makeup, and that  can change
over time as the spores start degrading your immune system.

If you  go  out shopping for a couple of hours, and get  a  whiff of
musty odor when you return and first open the door, mold  is growing
somewhere in the house.

If your  symptoms go away when you leave the house for  a  couple of
days, and appear when you return, I'd start thinking seriously about
the consequences and about moving.

If you  have an old home, chances are the basement  is  not finished
properly and  may  be damp. This is how I got  into  trouble.  It is
impossible to keep mold from growing when moisture is available. The
spores will grow on anything. The ones that did me grow on concrete,
and extract  sulphur  from  the  concrete.  They  literally  ate the
concrete away.

Be very  careful about the claims some people make to  stop  mold. I
found many  sites  that simply have no idea what  they  were talking
about.

I'm sorry  - I have too bad a headache and can't continue.  Here's a
url that might give some more useful information:

http://www.mold-survivor.com/

Mold is deadly. I'd take it very seriously if you are showing any of
the typical symptoms. You can find a list at the above url, and also
on some of the EPA pages on mold.

On the  other hand, it could be something  else  completely harmless
and easily treated. But do more research to find out for sure.

BTW, Doctors  don't have a clue about mold. You need to do  your own
research and find out yourself what is going

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Marshall Dudley]

UV will kill pathogens, IR will warm them up and usually make them
reproduce faster.

Marshall

Richard Harris wrote:

  Bob,I believe they would be 2 different things  mine IS
 ultra-violet--check with your A/C people--they installed mine. It
 should take out  purify all bad things in your air. If more info is
 needed, let me know. There is also a small portable 1-room air cleaner
 unit for under $100.Best regards,Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist

  -Original Message-
  From: Medwith, Robert [mailto:robert.j.medw...@us.army.mil]
  Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 11:23 AM
  To: 'silver-list@eskimo.com'
  Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

  Ultra-Violet and Infra-Red are they one and the same.
  Both  are listed.
  This sounds interesting How good is a Electronic air Cleaner
  mounted on
  Cold Air Return to furnace what will it take out.

Bob

  -Original Message-
  From: Richard Harris [mailto:yr...@cfl.rr.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:47 AM
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Cc: Richard Harris
  Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

  Sorry Turtle  Mike, that was an Ultra-violet light in the
  A/C system.

  -Original Message-
  From: Richard Harris [mailto:yr...@cfl.rr.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:27 AM
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

  Hi Turtle,
  My heaqrt goes out to you  Mike and all your loved ones.
  Many people are sensitive to cat dander as well as mold
  spores. There are new room air filters that are satisfactory
  for most people in a limited space. Some wag once suggested
  that the only sure way to remove fleas from a house is to
  give away or shoot the dogs  cats  burn the house. I
  certainly hope your problems don't get that severe. If
  your home is air conditioned, you can have an infra-red
  light installed that will even kill anthax as well as most
  other air-borne problems including mold. Best of luck to all
  of you. Mike, for your headaches, have you tried wetting a
  folded paper towel or cloth with CS and placing on forehead
  over eyes for a few minutes--sometimes that's efeective even
  for migraines. Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist
  -Original Message-

  From: Mike Monett [mailto:31dtzj...@sneakemail.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 3:06 AM
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

  url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63219.html
  Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
  From: turtle
  Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:20:23

 Hi Mike,

 Can you, are any one on the list tell me how you
  measure  for mold
 spores?

 I live  with  my  wife and 3 cats, we  all  have
  allergy/flu type
 symptoms. Have been taking CS for a couple of months.

 TIA,
 turtle

Hi turtle,

I found CS has no effect on mold symptoms.

Mold spores can have unpredictable effects. If you become
  sensitized
due to  high  exposure, it is probably permanent. It  can
  ruin your
health and your life.

So I would take any symptoms very seriously. I didn't, and
  I learned
too late what can happen.

There are  so-called mold exterminators that might  come
  and sample
the air and try to con you into expensive treatments. Stay
  away from
them. Every  home has mold spores and their sample will
  always turn
out positive.

The question  is  what is a safe level. Nobody really
  knows.  It is
highly up  to an individual's bilogical makeup, and that
  can change
over time as the spores start degrading your immune
  system.

If you  go  out shopping for a couple of hours, and get
  a  whiff of
musty odor when you return and first open the door, mold
  is growing
somewhere in the house.

If your  symptoms go away when you leave the house for  a
  couple of
days, and appear when you return, I'd start thinking
  seriously about
the consequences and about moving.

If you  have an old home, chances are the basement  is
  not finished
properly and  may  be damp. This is how I got  into
  trouble.  It is
impossible to keep mold from growing when moisture is
  available. The
spores will grow on anything. The ones that did me grow on
  concrete,
and extract  sulphur  from  the  concrete.  They
  literally  ate the
concrete away.

Be very  careful about the claims some people make to
  stop  mold. I
found many  sites  that simply have no idea what  they
  were talking
about.

I'm sorry  - I have too bad

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Robert Berger]

Robert,

Infa red does not have germ killing powers that are found in the ultra
violent end of the spectrum.. They areat different ends of the light
spectrum.

Ole Bob

Medwith, Robert wrote:



 Ultra-Violet and Infra-Red are they one and the same.
 Both  are listed.
 This sounds interesting How good is a Electronic air Cleaner mounted
 on
 Cold Air Return to furnace what will it take out.

  NO


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms, mold

[Malcolm Stebbins]

Hi Mike, Thanks for your previous post on inductive and other sources of 
(non)-interference with CS generators, I'll respond to that when I have a 
little more time.
Meanwhile, regarding the presencc of headache producing mold and spores in 
your environment, have you tried using the common copper-based garden spray 
solutions (Kop-r-spray, Liqui-cop are ones around here)?  They contain a 
copper ammonium complex resulting in a content of 8% copper expressed as 
metallic, and they are just plain effective.  Their toxicity is low as far 
as I can tell including my own personal bio-assay (yes I tasted some of the 
properly diluted stuff years ago when I was -err - even dumber than I am 
now) and could detect no bad effects or even significant taste.  I don't 
know what it would do to the color of laundered cloth, maybe I'll give it a 
try on my work clothes, but it should be ok on floors and such household 
surfaces.
Please note that I haven't delved into what a copper ammonium complex is, 
these days, it may no longer be a simple inorganic (I know, I know) 
compound.  Just an idea in hope it will help.

Take care,  Malcolm

At 07:13 AM 10/7/03 -0400, you wrote:


url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63086.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Ode Coyote
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:43:48

   If the  PWT  ignores  oxides and there are  a  lot  of  oxides [or
   metallic silver micro particles] then the PWT reading  equating uS
   to PPM will not be at unity.

   Hence, the fudge factors.

   At 3 uS, it's almost certain that the CS is 99+% ionic and the PWT
   will be very close to unity.

   At 27  uS,  it's unlikely that the CS is more than  90%  ionic and
   could be less than 80% ionic.

   In some cases the PWT can read 13 uS and the suspension can exceed
   60% [even 80%?] non ionic silver content as an extremely  heavy TE
   or display a lot of crud in the bottom or both.

   Ode

  Hi Ken,

  I'm sorry  I have not been able to respond to  your  posts recently.
  They force me to think, and the headaches from the mold  spores made
  that impossible. So I tackled the easy ones, like solar flares:)

  I have been working with colloidal copper. It is tough to  make, but
  it is the only thing that has any effect on the spores. I  have been
  applying it  to all the clothing, and the spore  levels  are finally
  starting to decline.

  I just spent four glorious hours with no headache, and I know how to
  get rid  of  them  when  they  do  return.  I  also  took Marshall's
  suggestion and applied the cc to the floors. I didn't think it would
  work, but  it worked GREAT! I can go into the  bathroom  and kitchen
  without collapsing  from  the  headaches. It also  works  on  my lab
  floor.

  Thanks, Marshall! You are the man.

  Ken, you  are right about the oxides messing things up. The  goal is
  to minimize them, which is why your silverpuppy design is so good. I
  love your U-shaped electrodes.

  That solved  the  problem of hot spots at the  cut  end  of straight
  rods, increased  the  rigidity and stability of  the  alignment, and
  doubled the  wetted  area all at once. Such a  simple  idea,  and so
  elegant. I  don't  mind telling everyone I copied it  for  my mini-W
  generator.

  These advances allow pretty good ppm, and minimize the production of
  oxides.

  We are now left with the ions, and how to measure them.

  There really should be a correlation between ppm and uS. Conductance
  measures the number of ions, and ppm measures the mass of the ions.

  Since all  silver ions have the same mass,  measuring  one parameter
  should give  the other. (Unless there's something really  wrong with
  the process, but nobody adds salt to start their cs anymore:)

  The only  question left is what is the conversion factor  between uS
  and ppm?

  Trem had his cs analyzed and found the correlation factor  was unity
  for the ionic portion.

  Frank Key  measured the uS and ppm on some  commercial  products and
  posted the results at

http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/reports.html

  He separated the ionic and particulate portions and gave their value
  separately. I ignored the particulate data.

  I selected  five products that seem to correlate well.  Here  is the
  list:

  Product Name  Conductivity  Ionic PPM  Ratio
      ~  ~
  Silver Lightning3.3 uS/cm3.71 ppm  0.889
  Mesosilver  3.9 uS/cm3.9  ppm  1.0
  Sovereign Silver9.7 uS/cm9.22 ppm  1.052
  ASAP Solution  11.4 uS/cm   10.65 ppm  1.070
  ASAP Solution  20.1 uS/cm   19.59 ppm  1.026

  The average is

0.889 + 1.0 + 1.052 + 1.070 + 1.026 = 5.037 / 5 = 1.0074

  Ivan posted  a table comparing uS and ppm. Note it  tracks  above 20
  ppm within 1 ppm of measurement error:

20uS - 20ppm
21uS - 21ppm
25uS - 26ppm
26uS - 27ppm

http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m14498.html

  I didn't  find  any information

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms, mold

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63249.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms, mold
From: Malcolm Stebbins
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:31:47

   Hi Mike,  Thanks  for your previous post  on  inductive  and other
   sources of (non)-interference with CS generators, I'll  respond to
   that when I have a little more time.

   Meanwhile, regarding  the presencc of headache producing  mold and
   spores in  your  environment,  have  you  tried  using  the common
   copper-based garden  spray solutions  (Kop-r-spray,  Liqui-cop are
   ones around  here)?  They   contain  a  copper  ammonium complex
   resulting in  a  content of 8% copper expressed  as  metallic, and
   they are  just plain effective. Their toxicity is low as far  as I
   can tell including my own personal bio-assay (yes I tasted some of
   the properly diluted stuff years ago when I was -err - even dumber
   than I am now) and could detect no bad effects or even significant
   taste. I  don't  know what it would do to the  color  of laundered
   cloth, maybe I'll give it a try on my work clothes, but  it should
   be ok on floors and such household surfaces.

   Please note  that  I haven't delved into what  a  copper ammonium
   complex is, these days, it may no longer be a simple inorganic (I
   know, I know) compound. Just an idea in hope it will help.

   Take care, Malcolm

  Hi Malcom,

  Thank you  very  much for your kind words. I  searched  the  web for
  sporicides many  times,  but never came  across  those  two products
  until now. I'll get more information - Thanks!

  The experiment  with  colloidal copper is a result of a  web  page I
  found that listed various sporicides - some of them clearly  toxic -
  but copper was among them.

  More research  indicated copper is used as a  fungicide  in treating
  grapes, and by people who grow roses.

  Feeling somewhat  grapey and rosy, I decided to give it  a  try. The
  archives have a few reports, one by Ken that indicated it might work
  but the ppm would be very low compared to cs. Another recent post by
  another contributor also showed positive results. I'm sorry  I don't
  remember your name - your post was extremely helpful.

  It took a while to explore the behavior of copper in dw,  and golly,
  the max  ppm  is  really  low. So I push  it  to  get  a  coating of
  something on the cathode, then shake the rods so it goes into the dw
  and forms a light brown tint. This give both types of copper  - ions
  and something  else.  I figure if one doesn't kill  the  spores, the
  other will.

  This is  very effective on fabrics to kill the spores that  give the
  terrible headaches.  These were the hardest thing to  kill.  It also
  seems effective on the other types of mold that also make me too ill
  to work.

  The tenants  downstairs  live  a   normal  life,  and  their fabrics
  generate a constant supply of new spores. These drift up through the
  floor and cracks between the floor and the walls, even though I have
  done my best to seal all the cracks with bathroom caulk.  The spores
  create severe  problems, but constant spraying and mopping  seems to
  kill them for a while.

  So finally, there is some progress. I am hanging on the edge with my
  fingernails - but that's all I need. One tiny crack, one  glimmer of
  hope, and I will make it bigger so more light can come in.

  For everyone. That's what it is all about.

  God Bless all of you.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Jonathan B. Britten]

I am hoping that Richard Harris can give us the benefit of fifty six 
years of pharmaceutical expertise!   I think it is great to have 
someone with such experience on this list,  and I am hoping that Mr. 
Harris can give us insights, in layman's terms,  that others might not 
have.   I for one can deal with scientific subjects so long as the 
author makes a small effort to avoid unnecessary jargon, and use plain 
English whenever possible.



I am looking forward to many postings apropos the advantages and 
disadvantages of CS from the viewpoint of the man behind the counter. . 
. .


Here's hoping!


JBB


On Thursday, Oct 9, 2003, at 03:07 Asia/Tokyo, Richard Harris wrote:


Bob,
I believe they would be 2 different things  mine IS 
ultra-violet--check with your A/C people--they installed mine. It 
should take out  purify all bad things in your air. If more info is 
needed, let me know. There is also a small portable 1-room air cleaner 
unit for under $100.

Best regards,
Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist

-Original Message-
From: Medwith, Robert [mailto:robert.j.medw...@us.army.mil]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 11:23 AM
To: 'silver-list@eskimo.com'
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

Ultra-Violet and Infra-Red are they one and the same.
Both  are listed.
This sounds interesting How good is a Electronic air Cleaner mounted on
Cold Air Return to furnace what will it take out.

  Bob

-Original Message-
From: Richard Harris [mailto:yr...@cfl.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:47 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Cc: Richard Harris
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


Sorry Turtle  Mike, that was an Ultra-violet light in the A/C system.

-Original Message-
From: Richard Harris [mailto:yr...@cfl.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:27 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


Hi Turtle,
My heaqrt goes out to you  Mike and all your loved ones. Many people 
are sensitive to cat dander as well as mold spores. There are new room 
air filters that are satisfactory for most people in a limited space. 
Some wag once suggested that the only sure way to remove fleas from 
a house is to give away or shoot the dogs  cats  burn the house. I 
certainly hope your problems don't get that severe. If your home is 
air conditioned, you can have an infra-red light installed that will 
even kill anthax as well as most other air-borne problems including 
mold. Best of luck to all of you. Mike, for your headaches, have you 
tried wetting a folded paper towel or cloth with CS and placing on 
forehead over eyes for a few minutes--sometimes that's efeective even 
for migraines. Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist -Original 
Message-


From: Mike Monett [mailto:31dtzj...@sneakemail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 3:06 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms


url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63219.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: turtle
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:20:23

   Hi Mike,

   Can you, are any one on the list tell me how you measure  for mold
   spores?

   I live  with  my  wife and 3 cats, we  all  have  allergy/flu type
   symptoms. Have been taking CS for a couple of months.

   TIA,
   turtle

  Hi turtle,

  I found CS has no effect on mold symptoms.

  Mold spores can have unpredictable effects. If you become sensitized
  due to  high  exposure, it is probably permanent. It  can  ruin your
  health and your life.

  So I would take any symptoms very seriously. I didn't, and I learned
  too late what can happen.

  There are  so-called mold exterminators that might  come  and sample
  the air and try to con you into expensive treatments. Stay away from
  them. Every  home has mold spores and their sample will  always turn
  out positive.

  The question  is  what is a safe level. Nobody really  knows.  It is
  highly up  to an individual's bilogical makeup, and that  can change
  over time as the spores start degrading your immune system.

  If you  go  out shopping for a couple of hours, and get  a  whiff of
  musty odor when you return and first open the door, mold  is growing
  somewhere in the house.

  If your  symptoms go away when you leave the house for  a  couple of
  days, and appear when you return, I'd start thinking seriously about
  the consequences and about moving.

  If you  have an old home, chances are the basement  is  not finished
  properly and  may  be damp. This is how I got  into  trouble.  It is
  impossible to keep mold from growing when moisture is available. The
  spores will grow on anything. The ones that did me grow on concrete,
  and extract  sulphur  from  the  concrete.  They  literally  ate the
  concrete away.

  Be very  careful about the claims some people make to  stop  mold. I
  found many  sites  that simply have no idea what  they  were talking
  about.

  I'm sorry  - I have too bad a headache and can't continue.  Here's

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms, mold

[Jonathan B. Britten]

Mike,

Once again,  I HIGHLY recommend trying EMX ceramics.You can get a 
lot of information about these by joining the EMHealth group at Yahoo.


I have used the ceramic powder in my apartment to clear up an 
intractable mold problem in an upstairs closet.  (Japanese construction 
is poor in many cases;  no vapor barrier at all.)


I am confident that by using the ceramic powder you can eliminate your 
problems for good.



JBB



On Thursday, Oct 9, 2003, at 09:11 Asia/Tokyo, Mike Monett wrote:


url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63249.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms, mold
From: Malcolm Stebbins
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:31:47


Hi Mike,  Thanks  for your previous post  on  inductive  and other
sources of (non)-interference with CS generators, I'll  respond to
that when I have a little more time.



Meanwhile, regarding  the presencc of headache producing  mold and
spores in  your  environment,  have  you  tried  using  the common
copper-based garden  spray solutions  (Kop-r-spray,  Liqui-cop are
ones around  here)?  They   contain  a  copper  ammonium complex
resulting in  a  content of 8% copper expressed  as  metallic, and
they are  just plain effective. Their toxicity is low as far  as I
can tell including my own personal bio-assay (yes I tasted some of
the properly diluted stuff years ago when I was -err - even dumber
than I am now) and could detect no bad effects or even significant
taste. I  don't  know what it would do to the  color  of laundered
cloth, maybe I'll give it a try on my work clothes, but  it should
be ok on floors and such household surfaces.



Please note  that  I haven't delved into what  a  copper ammonium
complex is, these days, it may no longer be a simple inorganic (I
know, I know) compound. Just an idea in hope it will help.



Take care, Malcolm


  Hi Malcom,

  Thank you  very  much for your kind words. I  searched  the  web for
  sporicides many  times,  but never came  across  those  two products
  until now. I'll get more information - Thanks!

  The experiment  with  colloidal copper is a result of a  web  page I
  found that listed various sporicides - some of them clearly  toxic -
  but copper was among them.

  More research  indicated copper is used as a  fungicide  in treating
  grapes, and by people who grow roses.

  Feeling somewhat  grapey and rosy, I decided to give it  a  try. The
  archives have a few reports, one by Ken that indicated it might work
  but the ppm would be very low compared to cs. Another recent post by
  another contributor also showed positive results. I'm sorry  I don't
  remember your name - your post was extremely helpful.

  It took a while to explore the behavior of copper in dw,  and golly,
  the max  ppm  is  really  low. So I push  it  to  get  a  coating of
  something on the cathode, then shake the rods so it goes into the dw
  and forms a light brown tint. This give both types of copper  - ions
  and something  else.  I figure if one doesn't kill  the  spores, the
  other will.

  This is  very effective on fabrics to kill the spores that  give the
  terrible headaches.  These were the hardest thing to  kill.  It also
  seems effective on the other types of mold that also make me too ill
  to work.

  The tenants  downstairs  live  a   normal  life,  and  their fabrics
  generate a constant supply of new spores. These drift up through the
  floor and cracks between the floor and the walls, even though I have
  done my best to seal all the cracks with bathroom caulk.  The spores
  create severe  problems, but constant spraying and mopping  seems to
  kill them for a while.

  So finally, there is some progress. I am hanging on the edge with my
  fingernails - but that's all I need. One tiny crack, one  glimmer of
  hope, and I will make it bigger so more light can come in.

  For everyone. That's what it is all about.

  God Bless all of you.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Jonathan B. Britten]

By the way,  those interested in hydrogen ions, a topic of the week, 
should see:


http://www.h-minus-ion.org/rH-score-1.html

Vinny Pinto runs this site.   All of his sites are very informative.


JBB




On Thursday, Oct 9, 2003, at 09:36 Asia/Tokyo, Jonathan B. Britten 
wrote:


I am hoping that Richard Harris can give us the benefit of fifty six 
years of pharmaceutical expertise!   I think it is great to have 
someone with such experience on this list,  and I am hoping that Mr. 
Harris can give us insights, in layman's terms,  that others might not 
have.   I for one can deal with scientific subjects so long as the 
author makes a small effort to avoid unnecessary jargon, and use plain 
English whenever possible.



I am looking forward to many postings apropos the advantages and 
disadvantages of CS from the viewpoint of the man behind the counter. 
. . .


Here's hoping!


JBB


On Thursday, Oct 9, 2003, at 03:07 Asia/Tokyo, Richard Harris wrote:


Bob,
I believe they would be 2 different things  mine IS 
ultra-violet--check with your A/C people--they installed mine. It 
should take out  purify all bad things in your air. If more info is 
needed, let me know. There is also a small portable 1-room air 
cleaner unit for under $100.

Best regards,
Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist

-Original Message-
From: Medwith, Robert [mailto:robert.j.medw...@us.army.mil]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 11:23 AM
To: 'silver-list@eskimo.com'
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

Ultra-Violet and Infra-Red are they one and the same.
Both  are listed.
This sounds interesting How good is a Electronic air Cleaner mounted 
on

Cold Air Return to furnace what will it take out.

  Bob

-Original Message-
From: Richard Harris [mailto:yr...@cfl.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:47 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Cc: Richard Harris
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


Sorry Turtle  Mike, that was an Ultra-violet light in the A/C system.

-Original Message-
From: Richard Harris [mailto:yr...@cfl.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:27 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms


Hi Turtle,
My heaqrt goes out to you  Mike and all your loved ones. Many people 
are sensitive to cat dander as well as mold spores. There are new 
room air filters that are satisfactory for most people in a limited 
space. Some wag once suggested that the only sure way to remove 
fleas from a house is to give away or shoot the dogs  cats  burn 
the house. I certainly hope your problems don't get that severe. If 
your home is air conditioned, you can have an infra-red light 
installed that will even kill anthax as well as most other air-borne 
problems including mold. Best of luck to all of you. Mike, for your 
headaches, have you tried wetting a folded paper towel or cloth with 
CS and placing on forehead over eyes for a few minutes--sometimes 
that's efeective even for migraines. Richard Harris, 56 yr FL 
Pharmacist -Original Message-


From: Mike Monett [mailto:31dtzj...@sneakemail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 3:06 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms


url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63219.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: turtle
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:20:23

   Hi Mike,

   Can you, are any one on the list tell me how you measure  for mold
   spores?

   I live  with  my  wife and 3 cats, we  all  have  allergy/flu type
   symptoms. Have been taking CS for a couple of months.

   TIA,
   turtle

  Hi turtle,

  I found CS has no effect on mold symptoms.

  Mold spores can have unpredictable effects. If you become sensitized
  due to  high  exposure, it is probably permanent. It  can  ruin your
  health and your life.

  So I would take any symptoms very seriously. I didn't, and I learned
  too late what can happen.

  There are  so-called mold exterminators that might  come  and sample
  the air and try to con you into expensive treatments. Stay away from
  them. Every  home has mold spores and their sample will  always turn
  out positive.

  The question  is  what is a safe level. Nobody really  knows.  It is
  highly up  to an individual's bilogical makeup, and that  can change
  over time as the spores start degrading your immune system.

  If you  go  out shopping for a couple of hours, and get  a  whiff of
  musty odor when you return and first open the door, mold  is growing
  somewhere in the house.

  If your  symptoms go away when you leave the house for  a  couple of
  days, and appear when you return, I'd start thinking seriously about
  the consequences and about moving.

  If you  have an old home, chances are the basement  is  not finished
  properly and  may  be damp. This is how I got  into  trouble.  It is
  impossible to keep mold from growing when moisture is available. The
  spores will grow on anything. The ones that did me grow on concrete,
  and extract  sulphur  from

RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63227.html
RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Richard Harris
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:31:58

   Hi Turtle,

   My heart  goes  out to you  Mike and all  your  loved  ones. Many
   people are  sensitive to cat dander as well as mold  spores. There
   are new room air filters that are satisfactory for most  people in
   a limited space. Some wag once suggested that the only sure way to
   remove fleas  from a house is to give away or shoot  the  dogs 
   cats   burn the house. I certainly hope your  problems  don't get
   that severe.  If your home is air conditioned, you  can  have an
   infra-red light  installed that will even kill anthax  as  well as
   most other air-borne problems including mold.

   Best of luck to all of you.

   Mike, for  your headaches, have you tried wetting  a  folded paper
   towel or cloth with CS and placing on forehead over eyes for a few
   minutes--sometimes that's efeective even for migraines.

   Richard Harris, 56 yr FL Pharmacist

  Hi Richard,

  Thank you for your kind thoughts. I second Jonathan's post - finally
  we have  someone with extensive knowledge and experience  in  a very
  rare specialty.  Your  posts will be invaluable to  everyone  on the
  list.

  The headaches  seem to be caused by spores and not by the  toxic gas
  produced by the fungus. I have a highly-modified HEPA face mask that
  combines the  best features of the 3M valves with  the  light weight
  and tight fit of the Northill. (Darned engineers can't  stop finding
  ways to improve things, can we:)

  Anyway, the  slightest  exposure  to  spores  gives  a  very violent
  headache, nothing  like I've experienced before. I used to  get this
  when I  made  the  bed  - flipping  the  sheets  and  blankets would
  disperse the spores, and the fun would start.

  The HEPA  filter stops them, but not the vapor they  produce.  So it
  seems the  problem  really  is spores  from  fungus  growing  in the
  fabric, and  it  is very tough to kill. The spores  are  coated with
  chitin, the same material that provides the exoskeleton  of insects,
  lobsters, and many other forms of life. It seems to  be invulnerable
  to normal acids and bases.

  The toxins  seem to have a special path to the headache  machine. No
  conventional remedy has any effect whatsoever.

  Your idea  of using cs on a pad never occurred to me - see  - that's
  where your vast experience is so valuable.

  I'll give it a try and see what happens. Thanks!

  Just a note on using UV to kill spores - I've seen reports  that UVB
  might be  helpful since it is a shorter wavelength than UVA. But the
  light cannot  penetrate deep into fabrics or other material,  so any
  hidden spores might not see the effects.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms, mold

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63253.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms, mold
From: Jonathan B. Britten
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:29:30

   Mike,

   Once again, I HIGHLY recommend trying EMX ceramics. You can  get a
   lot of  information about these by joining the  EMHealth  group at
   Yahoo.

   I have  used  the ceramic powder in my apartment  to  clear  up an
   intractable mold   problem   in   an   upstairs  closet. (Japanese
   construction is poor in many cases; no vapor barrier at all.)

   I am confident that by using the ceramic powder you  can eliminate
   your problems for good.

   JBB

  Hi Jonathan,

  Yes, I lived in Japan for brief periods and I loved it! I  think the
  standing joke was 4 million people ride the train in Tokyo -  all in
  the same car:)

  Thanks for  the reminder on EMX. I did a search  for  information on
  this material,  and it might be difficult to obtain here  in Ottawa.
  I'm up  against a very tight time deadline, so I'll have to  go with
  what I have now and look for improvements later.

  I need to get out of this apartment and find one with no downstairs
  tenants. Then I can do more to clean mold from the place.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


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List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms, mold

[Jonathan B. Britten]

Hi, Mike,

There is a US distributor that has, I think,  the ceramic powder.   
EMRO is one provider;  Sustainable Community Development is another.


  Please check.   I am almost positive that you can get it from the 
USA.   Good luck.



JBB




On Thursday, Oct 9, 2003, at 10:47 Asia/Tokyo, Mike Monett wrote:


url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63253.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms, mold
From: Jonathan B. Britten
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:29:30


Mike,



Once again, I HIGHLY recommend trying EMX ceramics. You can  get a
lot of  information about these by joining the  EMHealth  group at
Yahoo.



I have  used  the ceramic powder in my apartment  to  clear  up an
intractable mold   problem   in   an   upstairs  closet. (Japanese
construction is poor in many cases; no vapor barrier at all.)



I am confident that by using the ceramic powder you  can eliminate
your problems for good.



JBB


  Hi Jonathan,

  Yes, I lived in Japan for brief periods and I loved it! I  think the
  standing joke was 4 million people ride the train in Tokyo -  all in
  the same car:)

  Thanks for  the reminder on EMX. I did a search  for  information on
  this material,  and it might be difficult to obtain here  in Ottawa.
  I'm up  against a very tight time deadline, so I'll have to  go with
  what I have now and look for improvements later.

  I need to get out of this apartment and find one with no downstairs
  tenants. Then I can do more to clean mold from the place.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


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silver.


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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[turtle]

Thanks for all the replies re: mold.

I haven't noticed any odor, will observe more closely.
Also, start a journal to try to narrow the cause down.

Mowed the grass for 2 hours today and am a lot worse
tonight. Perhaps my problem is more common allergies
than mold, I hope so.

Have started to check the links and will learn all I can.

Also, it is not clear to me, is a ultrasonic nebulizer
generally more effective than a cool mist humidifier?
I have a cool mist humidifier. It helps, but, I'm not
sure if the benefit is from the CS or from deep breathing
moist air.

Thanks again,
Turtle


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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms, mold

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63261.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms, mold
From: Jonathan B. Britten
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:07:40

   Hi, Mike,

   There is  a US distributor that has, I think, the  ceramic powder.
   EMRO is  one   provider;   Sustainable   Community  Development is
   another.

   Please check.  I am almost positive that you can get  it  from the
   USA. Good luck.

   JBB

  Thanks Jonathan! It's a bit impractical right now, but it may be
  very useful after I move.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[M. G. Devour]

Hi Reid,

You write:
 How dow the stay in solution, not precipitating?  I still have part of
 a batch made about six months ago, which has remained stable for that
 long. Anyone?

Your current process reminds me of the one I developed for my own use a 
couple of years after I started making CS. I heated the water on a 
hotplate for the duration of the generating process, with a constant 
voltage setup.

My product looked a lot like beer, maybe like a dark laager with a bit 
of a reddish cast. It had a strong Tyndall effect. You could see 
through it, but it had a milky cast if you shone light *on* it. I still 
have a few samples and, as far as I know, none have shown signs of 
settling -- though I haven't looked at any in a while. They're at least 
5 years old now.

When I had a couple of batches measured at a lab, they came back at, if 
I remember... 22 and 27 ppm.

I've since gone on to much simpler methods using current limited room 
temperature methods producing consistently clear CS, but there wasn't a 
lot wrong with the effectiveness of the old brew, whatever flaws it 
might have had by today's standards.

So, I guess you needn't be too shocked by your results, Reid!

Be well,

Mike D.

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63086.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Ode Coyote
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:43:48

   If the  PWT  ignores  oxides and there are  a  lot  of  oxides [or
   metallic silver micro particles] then the PWT reading  equating uS
   to PPM will not be at unity.

   Hence, the fudge factors.

   At 3 uS, it's almost certain that the CS is 99+% ionic and the PWT
   will be very close to unity.

   At 27  uS,  it's unlikely that the CS is more than  90%  ionic and
   could be less than 80% ionic.

   In some cases the PWT can read 13 uS and the suspension can exceed
   60% [even 80%?] non ionic silver content as an extremely  heavy TE
   or display a lot of crud in the bottom or both.

   Ode

  Hi Ken,

  I'm sorry  I have not been able to respond to  your  posts recently.
  They force me to think, and the headaches from the mold  spores made
  that impossible. So I tackled the easy ones, like solar flares:)

  I have been working with colloidal copper. It is tough to  make, but
  it is the only thing that has any effect on the spores. I  have been
  applying it  to all the clothing, and the spore  levels  are finally
  starting to decline.

  I just spent four glorious hours with no headache, and I know how to
  get rid  of  them  when  they  do  return.  I  also  took Marshall's
  suggestion and applied the cc to the floors. I didn't think it would
  work, but  it worked GREAT! I can go into the  bathroom  and kitchen
  without collapsing  from  the  headaches. It also  works  on  my lab
  floor.

  Thanks, Marshall! You are the man.

  Ken, you  are right about the oxides messing things up. The  goal is
  to minimize them, which is why your silverpuppy design is so good. I
  love your U-shaped electrodes.

  That solved  the  problem of hot spots at the  cut  end  of straight
  rods, increased  the  rigidity and stability of  the  alignment, and
  doubled the  wetted  area all at once. Such a  simple  idea,  and so
  elegant. I  don't  mind telling everyone I copied it  for  my mini-W
  generator.

  These advances allow pretty good ppm, and minimize the production of
  oxides.

  We are now left with the ions, and how to measure them.

  There really should be a correlation between ppm and uS. Conductance
  measures the number of ions, and ppm measures the mass of the ions.

  Since all  silver ions have the same mass,  measuring  one parameter
  should give  the other. (Unless there's something really  wrong with
  the process, but nobody adds salt to start their cs anymore:)

  The only  question left is what is the conversion factor  between uS
  and ppm?

  Trem had his cs analyzed and found the correlation factor  was unity
  for the ionic portion.

  Frank Key  measured the uS and ppm on some  commercial  products and
  posted the results at

http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/reports.html

  He separated the ionic and particulate portions and gave their value
  separately. I ignored the particulate data.

  I selected  five products that seem to correlate well.  Here  is the
  list:

  Product Name  Conductivity  Ionic PPM  Ratio
      ~  ~
  Silver Lightning3.3 uS/cm3.71 ppm  0.889
  Mesosilver  3.9 uS/cm3.9  ppm  1.0
  Sovereign Silver9.7 uS/cm9.22 ppm  1.052
  ASAP Solution  11.4 uS/cm   10.65 ppm  1.070
  ASAP Solution  20.1 uS/cm   19.59 ppm  1.026

  The average is

0.889 + 1.0 + 1.052 + 1.070 + 1.026 = 5.037 / 5 = 1.0074

  Ivan posted  a table comparing uS and ppm. Note it  tracks  above 20
  ppm within 1 ppm of measurement error:

20uS - 20ppm
21uS - 21ppm
25uS - 26ppm
26uS - 27ppm

http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m14498.html

  I didn't  find  any information on how Ivan  measured  the  ppm, but
  since his data confirms and extends Frank's data, I assume Ivan also
  separated the ionic and particulate portions.

  The work by Trem, Frank, and Ivan firmly establishes  the conversion
  factor at 1 uS = 1 ppm. This is valid over a very wide  range, using
  many different  cs processes from HVAC to LVDC. So  that  problem is
  solved.

  Now for your second topic. You said:

   Using Faradays equation should tell how much silver  was liberated
   but won't say what happened to it.

   IF nothing has settled or plated out, it should still be  in the
   water in  whatever  form and should be  accurate  but  any visible
   fallout/plate out  at  all  will amount  to  a  highly significant
   percentage of  the total that won't be contributing to the  PPM in
   the water.

  Yes, you are right. Faraday's equation only tells us how much silver
  was liberated.  We assume the current density is low enough  to keep
  the production  of oxygen at the anode minimal, and  the  dw doesn't
  have contaminants  that plate out at the anode. I  had  that problem
  recently, and it required changing suppliers.

  The Faraday equation doesn't

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Ode Coyote]

 headaches in the past year or so...along with the
bruising.
 A connection?

Ode

At 07:13 AM 10/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63086.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Ode Coyote
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:43:48

   If the  PWT  ignores  oxides and there are  a  lot  of  oxides [or
   metallic silver micro particles] then the PWT reading  equating uS
   to PPM will not be at unity.

   Hence, the fudge factors.

   At 3 uS, it's almost certain that the CS is 99+% ionic and the PWT
   will be very close to unity.

   At 27  uS,  it's unlikely that the CS is more than  90%  ionic and
   could be less than 80% ionic.

   In some cases the PWT can read 13 uS and the suspension can exceed
   60% [even 80%?] non ionic silver content as an extremely  heavy TE
   or display a lot of crud in the bottom or both.

   Ode

  Hi Ken,

  I'm sorry  I have not been able to respond to  your  posts recently.
  They force me to think, and the headaches from the mold  spores made
  that impossible. So I tackled the easy ones, like solar flares:)

  I have been working with colloidal copper. It is tough to  make, but
  it is the only thing that has any effect on the spores. I  have been
  applying it  to all the clothing, and the spore  levels  are finally
  starting to decline.

  I just spent four glorious hours with no headache, and I know how to
  get rid  of  them  when  they  do  return.  I  also  took Marshall's
  suggestion and applied the cc to the floors. I didn't think it would
  work, but  it worked GREAT! I can go into the  bathroom  and kitchen
  without collapsing  from  the  headaches. It also  works  on  my lab
  floor.

  Thanks, Marshall! You are the man.

  Ken, you  are right about the oxides messing things up. The  goal is
  to minimize them, which is why your silverpuppy design is so good. I
  love your U-shaped electrodes.

  That solved  the  problem of hot spots at the  cut  end  of straight
  rods, increased  the  rigidity and stability of  the  alignment, and
  doubled the  wetted  area all at once. Such a  simple  idea,  and so
  elegant. I  don't  mind telling everyone I copied it  for  my mini-W
  generator.

  These advances allow pretty good ppm, and minimize the production of
  oxides.

  We are now left with the ions, and how to measure them.

  There really should be a correlation between ppm and uS. Conductance
  measures the number of ions, and ppm measures the mass of the ions.

  Since all  silver ions have the same mass,  measuring  one parameter
  should give  the other. (Unless there's something really  wrong with
  the process, but nobody adds salt to start their cs anymore:)

  The only  question left is what is the conversion factor  between uS
  and ppm?

  Trem had his cs analyzed and found the correlation factor  was unity
  for the ionic portion.

  Frank Key  measured the uS and ppm on some  commercial  products and
  posted the results at

http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/reports.html

  He separated the ionic and particulate portions and gave their value
  separately. I ignored the particulate data.

  I selected  five products that seem to correlate well.  Here  is the
  list:

  Product Name  Conductivity  Ionic PPM  Ratio
      ~  ~
  Silver Lightning3.3 uS/cm3.71 ppm  0.889
  Mesosilver  3.9 uS/cm3.9  ppm  1.0
  Sovereign Silver9.7 uS/cm9.22 ppm  1.052
  ASAP Solution  11.4 uS/cm   10.65 ppm  1.070
  ASAP Solution  20.1 uS/cm   19.59 ppm  1.026

  The average is

0.889 + 1.0 + 1.052 + 1.070 + 1.026 = 5.037 / 5 = 1.0074

  Ivan posted  a table comparing uS and ppm. Note it  tracks  above 20
  ppm within 1 ppm of measurement error:

20uS - 20ppm
21uS - 21ppm
25uS - 26ppm
26uS - 27ppm

http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m14498.html

  I didn't  find  any information on how Ivan  measured  the  ppm, but
  since his data confirms and extends Frank's data, I assume Ivan also
  separated the ionic and particulate portions.

  The work by Trem, Frank, and Ivan firmly establishes  the conversion
  factor at 1 uS = 1 ppm. This is valid over a very wide  range, using
  many different  cs processes from HVAC to LVDC. So  that  problem is
  solved.

  Now for your second topic. You said:

   Using Faradays equation should tell how much silver  was liberated
   but won't say what happened to it.

   IF nothing has settled or plated out, it should still be  in the
   water in  whatever  form and should be  accurate  but  any visible
   fallout/plate out  at  all  will amount  to  a  highly significant
   percentage of  the total that won't be contributing to the  PPM in
   the water.

  Yes, you are right. Faraday's equation only tells us how much silver
  was liberated.  We assume the current density is low enough  to keep
  the production  of oxygen at the anode minimal, and  the  dw doesn't
  have contaminants  that plate out

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63187.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Ode Coyote
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:39:19

   Colloidal Copper is said to be more effective on molds and fungi.

  Yes, I find it much more effective. But it doesn't last  long, maybe
  a day  or  less.  It's a constant battle, but I  can  now  get brief
  periods with no headaches. How glorious this is, I can't tell you.

   Copper sulphates have been used for that for ages, I  believe. How
   did you make your collidal copper?

  Each electrode is 3 feet of 12 ga house wiring folded into a  W. The
  wetted area is about 5.5 sq.in. I tried different  current densities
  and am now running at 144 uA/sq.in.

   I've copper  electrodes  for hours on end and never  got  a  TE or
   conductivity rise  to  go  over 3 uS [But I did  get  a  blue grey
   precipitate] Same with zinc ... without the precipitate.

  Yes, I monitor the cell voltage and calculate the ppm. As soon as it
  hits 3 ppm calculated, the cathode starts turning dark and  the cell
  voltage flattens out.

  This indicates  all the copper leaving the anode is  plating  out on
  the cathode, which limits the maximum ppm that can be achieved.

  When I try to push it beyond this point, the fun starts.

  I started  with  rods made from ordinary 1/2 inch  dia.  water pipe.
  This produced very thin black streamers from the bottom edge  of the
  cathode. They branched out like miniature trees.

  When I switched to a lower current, the trees would droop down. When
  I went to higher current, the trees would stand out horizontally and
  point directly  to the anode. Sometimes a piece would break  off. It
  would jerk  sideways  fairly  rapidly,  then  reattach  itself  to a
  branch. This  seems  to indicate the black  material  is conductive,
  which means  it  might be pure copper, and not some  kind  of copper
  oxide.

  I switched to the 12 ga W-shaped electrodes. When I went  beyond the
  3 ppm point, the cathode was covered with dark material. But instead
  of black trees, the entire solution started turning brown.  H2O2 has
  little or no effect on the color.

  The latest  batch  of dw does  something  completely  different. The
  cathode gets  covered  with a soft dark  brown  material  that forms
  horizontal wrinkles about 1/16 inch apart.

  The solution remains clear until I shake the stuff off  the cathode,
  then I  see  many tiny bits floating around in  the  water.  An hour
  later, the bits have disappeared and the solution has a slight brown
  tint.

  So 3 ppm calculated seem to be a hard limit for copper electrolysis.
  What happens after that depends on the current density, the shape of
  the electrodes, any sharp edges, and trace contaminants in the dw.

  It's not surprising the dw has much greater influence than  with cs.
  Since the  ppm is so low, the trace contaminants are  a  much larger
  ratio. It's like trying to make cs with very bad dw.

   No essentail  disagreement  but the problem with  PWTs  [that read
   right] and  PPM  is  this. Conductivity  and  'ionic'  content are
   essentailly at 1 to 1 unity.

  Bingo! Thanks,  Ken.  I have seen such confusion  on  the conversion
  factor -  1.6 uS/ppm, double the uS reading, cut it in  half,  or no
  correlation between them whatsoever.

  [... skip stuff on TE]

   Referring to  Reids problem, Ionic content can probably be  10% of
   the total rather than 90%

  Yes, he is trying to do the opposite:)

   Deviating:

   BTW I'm  having a bit of problem with the terminology  of oxides
   suspended in  the water, or production of oxides  etc.  Perhaps it
   has to  do with including unstable silver  hydroxides  or hydrated
   silver metal  particles..the  white  stuff [is  it?]  in  with the
   catagory of  stable silver dioxides and trioxides. [the  black and
   brown stuff]

  Reid's question  Where  do  the electrons go?  leads  to  a simple
  experiment.

  Heat 1  or  2  inches  of water at  140F  to  160F  until  the water
  evaporates. You are left with black stuff on the sides and bottom of
  the glass.

  Use Avogadro's  number and the Atomic Mass of silver  to  figure out
  how many ions were in the original volume of cs. This tells how many
  electrons are needed.

  Average the number of electrons by the time it took to evaporate the
  water. This  tells  how  much current is needed.  In  the  example I
  posted, it came out to 46 uA.

  This current cannot come through the glass or through the  air. Both
  are excellent insulators.

  The only  other source of electrons in the cs is  the  hydroxyl ion,
  OH-, that is formed at the cathode when hydrogen gas is generated.

  So it's simple. When the water evaporates, the concentration of ions
  increases. At  some point, the Ag+ and OH- ions  start  combining to
  form silver  hydroxide  and  silver oxide.  I  posted  the equations
  earlier.

  Now the fun starts. If you add a small amount of H2O2 to  the glass

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Reid Harvey]

Mike,
Let's pretend I'm dumb (ignoring reality?).  My new impression is that I
can determine ppm for combined forms of silver by measuring weight loss
of electrodes.  Then ppm, with or without some fudge factor, equals mgs.
per liter.  Are you saying that an easier way of determing ppm, rather
than using weight loss, schlepping electrodes to scales, would be to
measure volume, determine other variables and undergo the calculations?
Or am I missing something?

Also, while I've made sure the new generator is constant voltage, I may
have to wait for a constant current system.  Isn't it one or the other?
With five flasks I do not wish to have a loss in voltage with increasing
conductivity.  Can't I go with constant voltage, then measure electrode
weight loss.  Then do my best to make certain each production run
emulates the one for which tests were performed.  I need to come to
terms with the business of constant current.  Perhaps I need to
undertake several methodologies in order to understand what's going on.

Thanks for all your help.
Reid, an artist to begin with, only recently an aspiring scientist

Mike Monett said:
Reid,

  If you  use a constant current generator to drive the cell,  you can
  use the Faraday equations to tell how much silver was  liberated. In
  your case, most of it forms oxides and hydroxides, which is what you
  are trying to make. The equations are in a previous post.

  Even though  your  volume  of  dw  may  change  slightly  during the
  process, you  can simply measure the final volume and get  the total
  ppm.

  You can  measure  the  ionic portion with  the  Hanna  PWT  when the
  solution cools  to room temperature, and subtract it from  the value
  obtained with the Faraday equations.

  Trem, Frank,  and Ivan have shown the conversion  factor  between uS
  and ppm  is unity over a wide range from 3.9 uS to 27 uS.  Since you
  are not adding any other chemicals such as salt, the  reading should
  hold true  even  though you have a lot of  oxides.  The  PWT ignores
  them.

  You can  download  a  program   called   Mercury  that  will  do the
  calculations for you. Here's two places you can get it:


http://www.mirror.ac.uk/collections/hensa-micros/collections/aeres/edsw/d-smath/mrcry209.zip

  http://archives.math.utk.edu/software/msdos/calculus/mrcry209/.html

  Now all you need are the unit conversions. Here is a useful list you
  can copy to a file to use with Mercury:

  Cou  = I * sec ; total number of Coulombs
  esec = I / 1.60217733e-19; electrons per second
  gm   = k * I * sec ; Faraday's equation
  isin = esec / sqin ; ions per sq. in. per sec
  isnm = isin / 6.45e14  ; ions per square nanometer per sec
  k= 107.868 / 96485 ; Coulombs required per gram of silver
  lt   = 3.785 * gal ; convert gallons to litres
  lt   = ml / 1000   ; convert millilitres to litres
  mg   = gm * 1000   ; convert grams to milligrams
  ml   = 29.57 * oz  ; convert ounce to milliliters
  phr  = ppm / hrs   ; ppm per hour
  ppm  = mg / lt ; 1 ppm is 1 milligram per litre
  sec  = hrs * 3600 + mnt * 60  ; convert hours to seconds
  uAin = 1e6 * I / sqin  ; current density in uA per sq in

  Append your  data parameters to the list. Here's the ones I  use for
  Godzilla:

  I= 1.544e-3   ; current
  ml   = 2000   ; volume of dw
  mnt  = 0  ; minutes
  ppm  = 20
  sqin = 11.5   ; wetted area

  When you solve the equations, you will get a list of values. Here is
  the output list for the above data:

  Cou  = 0.001544*sec
   = +35.7789149701487
  I= +0.001544
  sec  = 3600*hrs
   = +23172.8723899927
  esec = +9.6368858246172E+15
  gm   = 0.0062141627320309*hrs
   = +0.040  { = +1 / 25 }
  k= +0.00111797688759911
  isin = +8.3799007170584E+14
  sqin = +11.500{ = +23 / 2 }
  isnm = +1.29920941349743
  lt   = +2.000
  gal  = +0.52840158520476   { = +400 / 757 }
  ml   = +2000.0
  mg   = 6.2141627320309*hrs
   = +40.
  oz   = +67.6361176868448{ = +20 / 2957 }
  phr  = 20/hrs
   = +3.1070813660154
  ppm  = +20.000
  hrs  = +6.4369089972202
  mnt  =  0.
  uAin = +134.260869565217{ = +3088 / 23 }

  The ppm is the 4th parameter from the bottom.

  Now subtract the ionic portion to obtain the amount of oxide.

  If you  weigh  your  electrodes  carefully  and  keep  track  of the
  calculated values for each run, you will eventually get a measurable
  loss in weight.

  It should  correspond with the total of your  calculations  for each
  run, within normal experimental error.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett



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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63079.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Reid Harvey
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 01:28:31

   Mike,

   Let's pretend  I'm dumb (ignoring reality?). My new  impression is
   that I can determine ppm for combined forms of silver by measuring
   weight loss  of electrodes. Then ppm, with or  without  some fudge
   factor, equals mgs. per liter.

  Yup. If  you  can  find  a   scale  with  enough  resolution  to see
  milligrams.

  I don't  think you are dumb at all. You are  doing  something nobody
  else has done reliably, and your motivation is the  highest possible
  - to help others.

   Are you  saying that an easier way of determing  ppm,  rather than
   using weight  loss, schlepping electrodes to scales,  would  be to
   measure volume,   determine   other   variables   and  undergo the
   calculations? Or am I missing something?

  Yes, you  can use the Faraday equations to calculate  the  amount of
  silver liberated,  if  you keep the current constant  at  all times.
  Otherwise, you  have to integrate the current vs time curves  to get
  the average current needed for the calculation. Messy.

  The thing to watch out for is production of oxygen at the  anode due
  to the high current you are using.

  (I shudder  to think of how much current you are  running,  but it's
  what you  need to get lots of oxides. Just the reverse  of  when you
  want to make ions.)

   Also, while I've made sure the new generator is  constant voltage,
   I may have to wait for a constant current system. Isn't it  one or
   the other?

  Constant voltage is easy. Just a power supply or a battery.

  Constant current is simple - a voltage reference, a  transistor, and
  some resistors. Any teenage geek can build it in five minutes.

  This will  sound  a   bit   technical,   but  many  constant current
  generators saturate  at  the  beginning of  the  run  when  the cell
  resistance is  too  high  to develop  the  needed  current  with the
  voltage available. This is simply Ohm's law: E = I * R

  Then, they act as constant voltage generators until the current builds 
  up enough for the regulator to start controlling the current.

  You are  running  at high temperature, which  will  reduce  the cell
  resistance. How much, I don't know. We need to get some measurements
  to start figuring things out.

   With five  flasks  I do not wish to have a  loss  in  voltage with
   increasing conductivity.

  Oops - right now, your voltage is constant.

  You start out at fairly low current, then it builds up as ions enter
  the solution.  Then  the  Ag+ and OH-  start  combining  and produce
  oxides and hydroxides, which is your goal.

  Meanwhile, the  conductance is determined by the free  ions  left in
  the cell,  which  detemines the current through  the  cell.  So your
  system is  very  complex, and we need to get  some  current  vs time
  curves to see what really is happening.

   Can't I  go with constant voltage, then  measure  electrode weight
   loss.

  Sure, but it will be unpredictable. You won't be able to  figure out
  what happened when something goes wrong, or what it takes to fix it.

   Then do  my best to make certain each production run  emulates the
   one for  which tests were performed. I need to come to  terms with
   the business  of  constant current. Perhaps  I  need  to undertake
   several methodologies in order to understand what's going on.

  Yes, that would be a very good idea. Document everything for reference,
  and try to get some current data to work with.

   Thanks for  all  your help. Reid, an artist  to  begin  with, only
   recently an aspiring scientist

  You really  are  the  picture of the  mad  scientist,  with bubbling
  beakers full  of strange colored liquids and wires going off  in all
  directions. Sounds like fun:)

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Reid Harvey]

Dan, Mike, Ode,
It seems I have wrongly assumed that the particles in solution are
mostly silver metal, this given the low percentage of ions.  Now it
seems that the vast majority of those particles are silver oxide and
silver hydroxide.  Either way, I do know that CS is more aptly referred
to as 'electrically isolated silver.'  So my question is this:  if the
great majority of silver in solution is some compound (or the metal),
what the heck is keeping the particles electrically isolated?  How dow
the stay in solution, not precipitating?  I still have part of a batch
made about six months ago, which has remained stable for that long.
Anyone?
Cheers,
Reid

Mike Monett wrote:
  Just a  note  - in order to use the Faraday equations,  you  need to
  verify the current density is not so high that it produces oxygen at
  the anode.

  This will  divert  some of the electrons to forming  gas  instead of
  silver ions, and overestimate the ppm.

  However, you can measure the weight loss after a few runs and  get a
  correction factor.

  Since you  run at constant temperature and  current,  the conversion
  factor should  hold constant. As long as the  volume  doesn't change
  significantly, which  would  change   the  wetted  area  and current
  density, which would then change the amount of gas liberated.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett





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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63081.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Reid Harvey
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 02:27:04

   Dan, Mike, Ode,

   It seems I have wrongly assumed that the particles in solution are
   mostly silver metal, this given the low percentage of ions. Now it
   seems that  the vast majority of those particles are  silver oxide
   and silver hydroxide.

  Yes. The question you asked about where the electrons came  from was
  a very significant question. I was truly impressed.

   Either way,  I  do  know  that CS is  more  aptly  referred  to as
   'electrically isolated silver.'

  Dunno why.  Collodial silver is silver ions in solution,  or  cs for
  short. They  all have some particulate content. You  just  happen to
  have a higher ratio than most:)

  'Electrically isolated  silver'   doesn't   say  anything  about the
  composition. Could  be  anything. Could be  arcs  drawn  from silver
  electrodes in air.

  Colloidal silver  has a long history of use. I don't see  why people
  want to redefine the term.

  Unless they  want to sell something. Then I get  real  suspicious of
  their motives.

   So my  question  is  this:  if the  great  majority  of  silver in
   solution is some compound (or the metal), what the heck is keeping
   the particles electrically isolated? How do they stay in solution,
   not precipitating?  I  still have part of a batch  made  about six
   months ago,  which  has  remained stable  for  that  long. Anyone?

  That is a very good question.

  One thing  that  might be going on is the high  temperature  you are
  running. The  particles grow to the size that makes  the  red color.
  Then they  are  limited by the availability of fresh  ions,  and the
  thermal velocity  which  affects the diffusion rate.  You  also have
  considerable convection currents that probably outweigh  the thermal
  velocity by a large factor. A very complex system indeed:)

  When the  solution cools down, the reactions  decrease  immensely. I
  tried to  find   some   information   on   the   reaction  rate with
  temperature, and  came up with several different values.  I  think a
  rough rule of thumb for the Arrhenius model is that it doubles every
  10C. Might be wrong on that - just from memory after a long day.

  If this  holds  true,   when   the   solution   cools  down  to room
  temperature, the reactions slow down by 2^7, or a factor of  128. So
  the particle interaction is greatly reduced, and maybe this explains
  why the solution is stable.

  Just a guess, of course. There's a lot of things going on  with your
  system that have not been explored before.

  And a  lot of interesting things to learn. Keep  asking  those great
  questions:)

   Cheers, Reid

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Ode Coyote]

##  If the PWT ignores oxides and there are a lot of oxides [or metallic
silver micro particles] then the PWT reading equating uS to PPM will not be
at unity.
 Hence, the fudge factors.
 At 3 uS, it's almost certain that the CS is 99+% ionic and the PWT will be
very close to unity.
 At 27 uS, it's unlikely that the CS is more than 90% ionic and could be
less than 80% ionic.
In some cases the PWT can read 13 uS and the suspension can exceed 60%
[even 80%?] non ionic silver content as an extremely heavy TE or display a
lot of crud in the bottom or both.

 Using Faradays equation should tell how much silver was liberated but
won't say what happened to it.
IF nothing has settled or plated out, it should still be in the water in
whatever form and should be accurate but any visible fallout/plate out at
all will amount to a highly significant percentage of the total that won't
be contributing to the PPM in the water.

 Darn it.  It just ain't easy.

Ode

  Trem, Frank,  and Ivan have shown the conversion  factor  between uS
  and ppm  is unity over a wide range from 3.9 uS to 27 uS.  Since you
  are not adding any other chemicals such as salt, the  reading should
  hold true  even  though you have a lot of  oxides.  The  PWT ignores
  them.


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CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Dan Nave]

Reid,

All things considered, since you are in Nepal and you are making large
quantities of very high ppm CS, I think the easiest and cheapest way of
determining the ppm of the solution would be the method recently suggested
by Mike Monett to actually weigh the silver anode at the beginning and at
the end of production and then calculate the ppm based on the weight of
silver lost and the volume of water of the resultant CS.

You should be able to make a large quantity of CS (several runs over a
period of time)  and combine the resultant brews and come up with enough
silver weight loss on the anode to get a faily accurate calculation.  Any
reasonably sized town in Nepal will have chemists, pharmasists, or labs who
would have a tripple beam balance which would probably give enough
resolution for this.  Just be sure to use the same balance to weigh the
before and after weights.

I'm sure that Mike or someone on the list would be able to give you formulas
with which to make this calculation.

Dan

PS You lucky guy!  I love Nepal...



 CSRe: concentrated CS and low ppm readings- OF THE EARLIER THREAD

 * From: Reid Harvey (view other messages by this author)
 * Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 01:31:22

 Dear Ole Bob, Jason, Tony, Marshall, Trem, Everybody

 Thanks for all the helpful points, and I'm still something of a novice
 on the CS aspect of ceramic water purifiers.  But I have a comment and
 question on the need for stirring:  my understanding is that sometimes
 stirring is not needed, since the flask is kept at about 200oF.
 Wouldn't this bring about a kind of thermal stirring, dispersing the
 ions?

 Also, checking back in the literature, isn't it true that for CS that's
 generated with DC the only accurate procedure in the lab comes from a
 spectral analysis?  And how does the Hanna PWT do when measuring the
 very small particle sizes?  Much of what I've seen on list concerns the
 way particles get bigger with additional ppm, but doesn't the frequent
 polarity reversal keep the particle size down?  So in this method of
 making concentrated CS  I could have a huge percentage of small
 particles, of a size that will not be indicated by the Hanna PWT.  To
 imagine that I'm getting only 2.4 ppm, for this 9:1 solution, with
 bright orange color, pearly irredecence and strong TE, seems just
 utterly absurd.

 Is it true that for DC generated CS the Hanna device would indicate only
 about 10% of true ppm?  So if my 9:1 dilute is indicating 2.4 ppm it's
 really 24ppm.  And my undiluted CS would be more like 240ppm?  From what
 I'm seeing this kind of concentrated CS is a very different animal by
 comparison to the 10 to 20 ppm CS.  I would be highly appreciative if
 someone could suggest a different kind of regime for testing ppm, ionic,
 particulate or whatever, CS of this very particular variety.  This
 regime would be especially necessary to small cities, where the lab
 resources may be a bit limited.
 As usual you guys are an indespensible lifeline.
 Reid

 Ole Bob said:
 Hi Reid,

 When I introduced polarity switching about 5 years ago I did a study on
 swithing times but always with a 50% duty cycle. I started with 12 x 12
 sec
 and advanced to 120 x 120 sec. I  found that the 60 x 60 was the best
 comprise. I did sell about a dozen EZCS2 units with motorized stirring.

 When I fist present ed the idae of polarity switching there was
 resistance to
 it with some saying that I was blowing the oxides or something back into
 the
 CS, it has become universally used.

 Ole Bob






 --


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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63046.html
CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Dan Nave
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:16:03

   Reid,

   All things  considered, since you are in Nepal and you  are making
   large quantities  of  very high ppm CS, I  think  the  easiest and
   cheapest way  of determining the ppm of the solution would  be the
   method recently  suggested  by Mike Monett to  actually  weigh the
   silver anode  at  the beginning and at the end  of  production and
   then calculate the ppm based on the weight of silver lost  and the
   volume of water of the resultant CS.

   You should  be able to make a large quantity of  CS  (several runs
   over a period of time) and combine the resultant brews and come up
   with enough  silver  weight  loss  on the  anode  to  get  a faily
   accurate calculation. Any reasonably sized town in Nepal will have
   chemists, pharmasists,  or  labs  who would  have  a  tripple beam
   balance which would probably give enough resolution for this. Just
   be sure  to  use the same balance to weigh  the  before  and after
   weights.

   I'm sure  that Mike or someone on the list would be  able  to give
   you formulas with which to make this calculation.

   Dan

   PS You lucky guy! I love Nepal...

  Brilliant Idea, Dan. The formula is simple.  ppm = mg / litre

  The conversion  program you posted recently would  be  excellent for
  converting between the different units.

  The newer  electronic  balances can measure 1  milligram  in several
  hundred. A good pharma distributor should have one and might let you
  use it.

  I'd strongly  recommend using a constant current  source  to control
  the current. Running with constant voltage will give highly variable
  results due to the variations in cell conductance with  changing ion
  concentration.

  The high  current  density  you   are  using  produces  a  high cell
  resistance. With the current you are running, the voltage across the
  cell probably exceeds the 37 Volt limit of LM117's.

  I recently posted a high compliance current source for cell voltages
  up to 160VDC that might help get the repeatability you  need. Please
  see

http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61896.html
http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61938.html

  You will need a good heat sink to run above about 12mA.

  Good thinking, Dan. You have an excellent analytical mind.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


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Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Reid Harvey]

Dan, Mike, Ode,
Thanks for all this, and now I feel I'm on my way.  How depressing, that
momentary fear I had only 24ppm!  Dan, I highly appreciate your idea of
weighing the annode, but appear to have two two of these, in as much as
there's a lot of polarity switching, so I've got to weigh both
electrodes.  Some time ago someone suggested weighing precipitate, and
I'd thought of doing this after inducing it with light and
electromagnetic field, like a fan or whatever.  But this is messy and
wastes good CS.
Reid

Dan Nave said,
  Reid,

   All things  considered, since you are in Nepal and you  are making
   large quantities  of  very high ppm CS, I  think  the  easiest and
   cheapest way  of determining the ppm of the solution would  be the
   method recently  suggested  by Mike Monett to  actually  weigh the
   silver anode  at  the beginning and at the end  of  production and
   then calculate the ppm based on the weight of silver lost  and the
   volume of water of the resultant CS.

   You should  be able to make a large quantity of  CS  (several runs
   over a period of time) and combine the resultant brews and come up
   with enough  silver  weight  loss  on the  anode  to  get  a faily
   accurate calculation. Any reasonably sized town in Nepal will have
   chemists, pharmasists,  or  labs  who would  have  a  tripple beam
   balance which would probably give enough resolution for this. Just
   be sure  to  use the same balance to weigh  the  before  and after
   weights.

   I'm sure  that Mike or someone on the list would be  able  to give
   you formulas with which to make this calculation.

   Dan

   PS You lucky guy! I love Nepal...

  Brilliant Idea, Dan. The formula is simple.  ppm = mg / litre

  The conversion  program you posted recently would  be  excellent for
  converting between the different units.

  The newer  electronic  balances can measure 1  milligram  in several
  hundred. A good pharma distributor should have one and might let you
  use it.

  I'd strongly  recommend using a constant current  source  to control
  the current. Running with constant voltage will give highly variable
  results due to the variations in cell conductance with  changing ion
  concentration.

  The high  current  density  you   are  using  produces  a  high cell
  resistance. With the current you are running, the voltage across the
  cell probably exceeds the 37 Volt limit of LM117's.

  I recently posted a high compliance current source for cell voltages
  up to 160VDC that might help get the repeatability you  need. Please
  see

http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61896.html
http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61938.html

  You will need a good heat sink to run above about 12mA.

  Good thinking, Dan. You have an excellent analytical mind.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett







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The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

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To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63052.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Reid Harvey
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:23:49

   Dan, Mike, Ode,

   Thanks for all this, and now I feel I'm on my way.  How depressing, that
   momentary fear I had only 24ppm!  Dan, I highly appreciate your idea of
   weighing the annode, but appear to have two two of these, in as much as
   there's a lot of polarity switching, so I've got to weigh both
   electrodes.  Some time ago someone suggested weighing precipitate, and
   I'd thought of doing this after inducing it with light and
   electromagnetic field, like a fan or whatever.  But this is messy and
   wastes good CS.

   Reid

  Reid,

  If you  use a constant current generator to drive the cell,  you can
  use the Faraday equations to tell how much silver was  liberated. In
  your case, most of it forms oxides and hydroxides, which is what you
  are trying to make. The equations are in a previous post.

  Even though  your  volume  of  dw  may  change  slightly  during the
  process, you  can simply measure the final volume and get  the total
  ppm.

  You can  measure  the  ionic portion with  the  Hanna  PWT  when the
  solution cools  to room temperature, and subtract it from  the value
  obtained with the Faraday equations.

  Trem, Frank,  and Ivan have shown the conversion  factor  between uS
  and ppm  is unity over a wide range from 3.9 uS to 27 uS.  Since you
  are not adding any other chemicals such as salt, the  reading should
  hold true  even  though you have a lot of  oxides.  The  PWT ignores
  them.

  You can  download  a  program   called   Mercury  that  will  do the
  calculations for you. Here's two places you can get it:

  
http://www.mirror.ac.uk/collections/hensa-micros/collections/aeres/edsw/d-smath/mrcry209.zip

  http://archives.math.utk.edu/software/msdos/calculus/mrcry209/.html

  Now all you need are the unit conversions. Here is a useful list you
  can copy to a file to use with Mercury:

  Cou  = I * sec ; total number of Coulombs
  esec = I / 1.60217733e-19; electrons per second
  gm   = k * I * sec ; Faraday's equation
  isin = esec / sqin ; ions per sq. in. per sec
  isnm = isin / 6.45e14  ; ions per square nanometer per sec
  k= 107.868 / 96485 ; Coulombs required per gram of silver
  lt   = 3.785 * gal ; convert gallons to litres
  lt   = ml / 1000   ; convert millilitres to litres
  mg   = gm * 1000   ; convert grams to milligrams
  ml   = 29.57 * oz  ; convert ounce to milliliters
  phr  = ppm / hrs   ; ppm per hour
  ppm  = mg / lt ; 1 ppm is 1 milligram per litre
  sec  = hrs * 3600 + mnt * 60  ; convert hours to seconds
  uAin = 1e6 * I / sqin  ; current density in uA per sq in

  Append your  data parameters to the list. Here's the ones I  use for
  Godzilla:

  I= 1.544e-3   ; current
  ml   = 2000   ; volume of dw
  mnt  = 0  ; minutes
  ppm  = 20
  sqin = 11.5   ; wetted area

  When you solve the equations, you will get a list of values. Here is
  the output list for the above data:

  Cou  = 0.001544*sec
   = +35.7789149701487
  I= +0.001544
  sec  = 3600*hrs
   = +23172.8723899927
  esec = +9.6368858246172E+15
  gm   = 0.0062141627320309*hrs
   = +0.040  { = +1 / 25 }
  k= +0.00111797688759911
  isin = +8.3799007170584E+14
  sqin = +11.500{ = +23 / 2 }
  isnm = +1.29920941349743
  lt   = +2.000
  gal  = +0.52840158520476   { = +400 / 757 }
  ml   = +2000.0
  mg   = 6.2141627320309*hrs
   = +40.
  oz   = +67.6361176868448{ = +20 / 2957 }
  phr  = 20/hrs
   = +3.1070813660154
  ppm  = +20.000
  hrs  = +6.4369089972202
  mnt  =  0.
  uAin = +134.260869565217{ = +3088 / 23 }

  The ppm is the 4th parameter from the bottom.

  Now subtract the ionic portion to obtain the amount of oxide.

  If you  weigh  your  electrodes  carefully  and  keep  track  of the
  calculated values for each run, you will eventually get a measurable
  loss in weight.

  It should  correspond with the total of your  calculations  for each
  run, within normal experimental error.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


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List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63053.html
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
From: Mike Monett
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:03:41

  Just a  note  - in order to use the Faraday equations,  you  need to
  verify the current density is not so high that it produces oxygen at
  the anode.

  This will  divert  some of the electrons to forming  gas  instead of
  silver ions, and overestimate the ppm.

  However, you can measure the weight loss after a few runs and  get a
  correction factor.

  Since you  run at constant temperature and  current,  the conversion
  factor should  hold constant. As long as the  volume  doesn't change
  significantly, which  would  change   the  wetted  area  and current
  density, which would then change the amount of gas liberated.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


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To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

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List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com