FW: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Tom, You are doing ok. One reason I gave the various studies was to show that Silver in vivo has a number of ways of attacking bacteria and virus. Add to that the fact that silver can and does change its compound form in vivo unpredictably will start to give you an idea of the complexity of the colloidal silver use. I have never tried to estimate the number of silver particles in a particular dose of CS. I guess one could calculate it if one was motivated enough. The Atomic Weight/Mass of a silver atom is 107.8682 amu. A formula I use to roughly approximate the number of atoms in a silver particle is y = 31.25x3 + 0.0915x2 – 2.0602x + 1.7183. Where y is the number of atoms and x is the particle size in nm. The formula was derived by using four data values I had found online and using a best fit curve routine to get the equation. As far as EIS is concerned, I find that the equation is useful to evaluate EIS against a true colloidal silver you can purchase. (BTW, the use of hydrogen peroxide with EIS was discovered in the 2001 timeframe by some of the members of the silver list. Here is a link that provides some insight to the stir it caused back then, http://www.silvermedicine.org/h2o2archives.html. Of course, any good idea gets taken by someone else and patented.) Now back to the subject. The CS with the smallest particle size that I know of is Mesosilver and Utopia Silver. Both have average particle sizes in the 2 nm range. That would mean average of about 250 atoms per particle. ( Note, there are CS suppliers out there selling CS with particle sizes in the 10 – 20 nm range. A 20 nm particle has about 250,000 atoms per particle. Avoid them, they are no bargain.) But I keep digressing. As Marshall pointed out earlier if you add H2O2 to EIS you can get up to 50% silver ions and 50% silver particles with most silver particles being a two atom particle. How to do this is a subject I will not cover here. So for each particle in the best CS you can get, in this EIS you would get 125 silver ions and 62 two atom silver particles. That is 187 ions/particles in EIS for each Mesosilver or Utopia Silver CS particle. An almost unbelievable multiplier when you consider it. And the total number of silver particles and ions in an ounce of 10 ppm EIS is somewhat astounding. While one might have enough pathogens to overwhelm an initial dose of EIS, experience has shown that over time EIS or CS wins out. - Steve N -Original Message- From: poast [mailto:po...@prodigy.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 8:50 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Hello Steve, Wow, that's a lot to get through. It looks like silver ions float through our bodies. In some cases it acts as a catalyst, and in other cases the ion is brought inside the pathogen cell, in the case of E coli. With a virus like HIV, it looks like the silver ion somehow is involved with attaching silver nano particles to the virus. In both cases, it appears that both the silver ions and particles can be consumed in the process. This would indicate that if there were enough viruses or pathogens, they could overwhelm the silver ions and particles. The image of the HIV virus looked like there may be up to 10 - 12 particles per virus. Any idea how many viruses there may be in a normal sized body? Also, how many nano particles are there in an ounce of EIS? In a similar fashion, how many silver ions were consumed by the E coli cell? When the cell is dead, do the silver ions return to the body, or are the washed out along with the dead cells? Overall the whole process looks pretty straightforward. You just need to find a way to get ions and particles in proximity to the pathogens... Am I getting closer...? Tom
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Hello Steve, It seems that not only are there several reactions going on, but they seem to be able to flip/flop at times. This adds another layer of complexity to the whole thing. You will have to pardon my over simplification of the process. My thought process works better when I can stand way back and establish an overview. Once I grasp the overview, I find it easier to zoom in and analyze the various details. I find it very amazing that silver ions are effective at such low concentrations. I am used to working in PPM ranges, and now find myself considering PPB ranges. I have done a little testing with H2O2, and ended up with a cloudy solution. It still seems to be effective when used externally, but I don't know about ingesting it. There seems to be some data on tetrasilver tetraoxide and I was thinking that the oxidation of H2O2 may help form that crystal as an oxide on the particles. Leverage seems to favor EIS over CS, but both seem to be effective in a number of situations. Thanks for all of your help in helping me understand this. It is going to take a while for it to sink in, but I think I am beginning to get a feel for it. Once I have an understanding of how it could possibly work, I will then take a look at why it doesn't work in some cases. I think the easy part is learning how it works... Tom - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:47 AM Subject: FW: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Tom, You are doing ok. One reason I gave the various studies was to show that Silver in vivo has a number of ways of attacking bacteria and virus. Add to that the fact that silver can and does change its compound form in vivo unpredictably will start to give you an idea of the complexity of the colloidal silver use. I have never tried to estimate the number of silver particles in a particular dose of CS. I guess one could calculate it if one was motivated enough. The Atomic Weight/Mass of a silver atom is 107.8682 amu. A formula I use to roughly approximate the number of atoms in a silver particle is y = 31.25x3 + 0.0915x2 – 2.0602x + 1.7183. Where y is the number of atoms and x is the particle size in nm. The formula was derived by using four data values I had found online and using a best fit curve routine to get the equation. As far as EIS is concerned, I find that the equation is useful to evaluate EIS against a true colloidal silver you can purchase. (BTW, the use of hydrogen peroxide with EIS was discovered in the 2001 timeframe by some of the members of the silver list. Here is a link that provides some insight to the stir it caused back then, http://www.silvermedicine.org/h2o2archives.html. Of course, any good idea gets taken by someone else and patented.) Now back to the subject. The CS with the smallest particle size that I know of is Mesosilver and Utopia Silver. Both have average particle sizes in the 2 nm range. That would mean average of about 250 atoms per particle. ( Note, there are CS suppliers out there selling CS with particle sizes in the 10 – 20 nm range. A 20 nm particle has about 250,000 atoms per particle. Avoid them, they are no bargain.) But I keep digressing. As Marshall pointed out earlier if you add H2O2 to EIS you can get up to 50% silver ions and 50% silver particles with most silver particles being a two atom particle. How to do this is a subject I will not cover here. So for each particle in the best CS you can get, in this EIS you would get 125 silver ions and 62 two atom silver particles. That is 187 ions/particles in EIS for each Mesosilver or Utopia Silver CS particle. An almost unbelievable multiplier when you consider it. And the total number of silver particles and ions in an ounce of 10 ppm EIS is somewhat astounding. While one might have enough pathogens to overwhelm an initial dose of EIS, experience has shown that over time EIS or CS wins out. - Steve N -Original Message- From: poast [mailto:po...@prodigy.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 8:50 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Hello Steve, Wow, that's a lot to get through. It looks like silver ions float through our bodies. In some cases it acts as a catalyst, and in other cases the ion is brought inside the pathogen cell, in the case of E coli. With a virus like HIV, it looks like the silver ion somehow is involved with attaching silver nano particles to the virus. In both cases, it appears that both the silver ions and particles can be consumed in the process. This would indicate that if there were enough viruses or pathogens, they could overwhelm the silver ions and particles. The image of the HIV virus looked like there may be up to 10 - 12 particles per virus. Any idea how many viruses there may be in a normal sized body? Also, how many nano particles are there in an ounce of EIS
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Then after the stomach there is this intelligent chemical soup and no telling what happens next. All roads lead to Rome? What works, works and knowing how it works doesn't change that. You can do it WHILE you figger it out. The plants grew and the sun shined even back when the Earth was flat and was in the middle of it all and the man on the moon ate green cheese laughing at all of us in the night. So now we know that Dude is but a bunch of craters and the cheese is random rock fort, but he still laughs and shines. Ode At 10:37 AM 2/8/2010 -0500, you wrote: Richard Goodwin wrote: I keep hearing that: once silver ions hit the salty stomach or blood, they become silver chloride... But, something was already x-chloride in both stomach and blood -- sodium chloride? So what does silver do? Push the sodium aside and take over the chloride ions? How does it do that? And what happens to the sodium ions? Or does an excess of positive ions of whatever kind go unmatched with the lesser number of negative ones? Silver like any other element will react in such a way that it goes from less stable to more stable. The order of stability for silver compounds was posted on this list by me just a couple of weeks ago. If you look at it you will see that silver citrate is MORE stable than silver chloride, and thus will not convert from the citrate state to the chloride state when it enters the stomach, or blood stream. In the stomach the silver combines with the HCl in the stomach, producing silver chloride if it is of a less stable form than silver chloride. For example the silver hydroxide AgOH in EIS will combine with HCl in the stomach producing AgCl and H2O, dihydrogen monoxide, also known as water. However silver nitrate will produce nitric acid when it reacts with HCl, and is why it is so corrosive and toxic. Marshall Help! Dick *From:* Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com *To:* silver-list@eskimo.com *Sent:* Fri, February 5, 2010 5:59:46 PM *Subject:* Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? I was skirting this because it is a secondary issue. Silver ions are very active and will form compounds with the first substance it can. Silver ions do not survive the digestive system as free ions. They probably react with stomach acid to primarily form silver chloride. The silver may also react with other substances such as ammopnia to form other compounds. But they do not remain as silver ions. - Steve N *From*: poast po...@prodigy.net *To*: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com *Sent*: Fri Feb 05 16:03:24 2010 *Subject*: Re: CS Hello Steve, OK, I am beginning to understand. I have looked at the Altman paper, but have not studied it. I will take another look at it, in detail. If I may present a somewhat weak argument... Doesn't it stand to reason that if you take more, you will not only ingest more ions, but also more particles. Perhaps the elimination through the kidney is just because there is more of both in the body... Back to the books, for now. Thanks. Tom - Original Message - *From:* Norton, Steve mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.com *To:* silver-list@eskimo.com mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com *Sent:* Friday, February 05, 2010 10:43 AM *Subject:* CS Tom, I am not suggesting daily use over use as needed. There was a time when I first used EIS I used it several times a day. It allowed me to get off a long term dependence on antibiotics. Now I take it when I think I need it. As to why I think that large doses of EIS do not significantly increase the effectiveness of EIS is a little more complex and somewhat controversial. It has to do with how EIS is processed in the body. The best clue to that comes from the Altman Silver Excretion Study. You can find the study at the Silver Medicine web site. Unfortunately the study pnly provides clues but not definitive answers. That is where the interpretation I mentioned in may previous post is important. IMO the important issue is whether the silver eliminated by the kidney is is in solution or particulate form. Silver in solution is far more active than silver in particulate form. There are varying opinions on that question. One of the more popular theories is that it is a soluble silver/ammonia compound is formed and since it contains ammonia it is removed by the kidney. However I have found that one of the most likely ammonia compounds, Ag(NH3)2, is eliminated by the liver and not the kidney. While I cannot say it with absolute certainly, my research indicates that all silver compounds in solution are removed by the liver. For various reasons it appaers that taking large ammounts of EIS predominately increases
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
poast wrote: Hello Ode, They make a big deal about the oxide on the outside of their silver particles. Then they mention that they are adding H2O2. Does the H2O2 play a part in the oxidation? I explain fully what H2O2 does in my article. It oxides the big particles producing silver hydroxide/oxide and reduces the silver hydroxide/oxide to be a 2 atom particle. End result is that an EIS of about 90% ionic and medium to large particles is changed to about 50% ionic with very small particles. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
distribution of silver
nanoparticles bound to the HIV-1 virus, derived from all tested preparations.
In Figure 3, we present HAADF images of the HIV-1 virus with (3a) and without
(3b) silver nanoparticles. For complete experimental details, refer to Methods
Section. The presence of silver was independently confirmed by Energy
Dispersive X-ray Spectroscopy (EDS), shown in Figure 3c. Interestingly, the
sizes of nanoparticles bound to the virus (Figure 3d) were exclusively within
the range of 1-10 nm. In the case of the silver nanoparticles released from the
carbon matrix, the fact that no nanoparticles greater than 10 nm in diameter
were observed to interact with the virus is significant, since the size of ~40%
of the overall population is beyond this range. This provides strong evidence
for the size-dependence of interaction.
Additionally, the nanoparticles seen in Figure 3a are not randomly attached to
the virus, as regular spatial relationships are observed among groups of three
particles. Both the spatial arrangement of nanoparticles and the size
dependence of interaction can be explained in terms of the HIV-1 viral
envelope, and can provide insight into the mode of interaction between the
virus and nanoparticles.
The exterior of the HIV-1 virus is comprised of a lipid membrane interspersed
with protruding glycoprotein knobs, formed by trimers consisting of two
subunits: the gp120 surface glycoprotein subunit is exposed to the exterior,
and the gp41 transmembrane glycoprotein subunit spans the viral membrane and
connects the exterior gp120 glycoprotein with the interior p17 matrix
protein[32]. The main function of these protruding gp120 glycoprotein knobs is
to bind with CD4 receptor sites on host cells. Numerous cellular proteins are
also embedded within the viral envelope[33]. However, the protruding gp120
glycoprotein knobs are more exposed to the exterior, and should be more
accessible for potential nanoparticle interactions.
Leonard and coworkers[34] reported that the gp120 subunit has nine disulfide
bonds, three of which are located in the vicinity of the CD4 binding domain.
These exposed disulfide bonds would be the most attractive sites for
nanoparticles to interact with the virus. As mentioned previously, the
nanoparticles in Figure 1a appear to be located at specific positions, with
regular spatial relationships observed among groups of three particles. The
observed spatial arrangements correlate with the positions of the gp120
glycoprotein knobs in the structural model for HIV-1 proposed by Nermut and
coworkers[32].
Regular spatial relationships are also found on the surface of the untreated
virus, as seen in the inset of Figure 1b. The observed darker contrast at these
sites could indicate the locations of the glycoprotein knobs.
Here is another study you may find interesting:
Bactericidal Actions of a Silver Ion Solution on Escherichia coli, Studied by
Energy-Filtering Transmission Electron Microscopy and Proteomic Analysis
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/71/11/7589.pdf
- Steve N
From: poast [mailto:po...@prodigy.net]
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 1:52 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Hello Steve,
I am begining to realize that the exact mechanism of how silver works inside
the body is still a little theoritical...
Let's jump outside the body for just a moment. Other sanatizers require a
concentration of the product to be in contact with the pathogen for a period of
time. With chlorine dioxide, for example, the CT values allow you to adjust
the process time for the concentration you are using. When disinfecting
wilderness water, I use a CT of 1000 mg-minutes/liter. When I mix up a 4 PPM
chlorine dioxide solution, I know that to sanatize a liter of water it is going
to take 250 minutes. If I have lots of time, and am concerned with better
taste, I can reduce the concentration to 2 PPM chlorine dioxide, and extend the
time out to 500 minutes.
Does anything like this exist for EIS?
Tom
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Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Hello Marshall, Thank you. Tom - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 8:03 AM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? poast wrote: Hello Ode, They make a big deal about the oxide on the outside of their silver particles. Then they mention that they are adding H2O2. Does the H2O2 play a part in the oxidation? I explain fully what H2O2 does in my article. It oxides the big particles producing silver hydroxide/oxide and reduces the silver hydroxide/oxide to be a 2 atom particle. End result is that an EIS of about 90% ionic and medium to large particles is changed to about 50% ionic with very small particles. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Hello Steve, Wow, that's a lot to get through. It looks like silver ions float through our bodies. In some cases it acts as a catalyst, and in other cases the ion is brought inside the pathogen cell, in the case of E coli. With a virus like HIV, it looks like the silver ion somehow is involved with attaching silver nano particles to the virus. In both cases, it appears that both the silver ions and particles can be consumed in the process. This would indicate that if there were enough viruses or pathogens, they could overwhelm the silver ions and particles. The image of the HIV virus looked like there may be up to 10 - 12 particles per virus. Any idea how many viruses there may be in a normal sized body? Also, how many nano particles are there in an ounce of EIS? In a similar fashion, how many silver ions were consumed by the E coli cell? When the cell is dead, do the silver ions return to the body, or are the washed out along with the dead cells? Overall the whole process looks pretty straightforward. You just need to find a way to get ions and particles in proximity to the pathogens... Am I getting closer...? Tom - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 11:03 AM Subject: RE: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Tom, Sorry that I haven't had time to reply. Even this will be a little brief. One important point to note is that silver is not consumed when it kills a pathogen as chlorine dioxide or other chemicals would be. And the study below shows that it takes but a single ion to destroy a bacteria. Although it does take more silver to inactivate an HIV virus. Here is a study relating to how low concentrations of Ag+ ions are able to kill bacteria: Chemiosmotic Mechanism of Antimicrobial Activity of Ag+ in Vibrio cholerae http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC127333/ “Although the antimicrobial effects of silver salts were noticed long ago, the molecular mechanism of the bactericidal action of Ag+ in low concentrations has not been elucidated. Here, we show that low concentrations of Ag+ induce a massive proton leakage through the Vibrio cholerae membrane, which results in complete deenergization and, with a high degree of probability, cell death.” In summary, the addition of low micromolar concentrations of Ag+ to inside-out membrane vesicles of V. cholerae induced a total collapse of both ΔpH and Δψ irrespective of the presence of Na+ ions. This effect of Ag+ was independent of the presence of the Na+-translocating NQR, known as a specific target for submicromolar Ag+, suggesting that the other Ag+-modified membrane proteins (or perhaps the Ag+-modified phospholipid bilayer itself) can cause the H+ leakage, thus explaining the broad spectrum of the antimicrobial activity of Ag+ ions. ... Thus, finally, the controversy over the mechanism of the bactericidal activity of low concentrations of Ag+ ions has been clarified. Regarding silver particles vs ionic silver: Treatment of Various Surfaces with Silver and its Compounds for Topical Wound Dressings, Catheter and Other Biomedical Applications http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normalid=ECSTF811210101idtype=cvipsgifs=yes “The applications of surfaces treated with silver and its compounds include devices used as topical wound dressings, urinary catheters, endotracheal tubes, cardiac valves etc. Treatment of surfaces e.g. textile, polymers or metals with silver or its compounds is carried out to achieve the antimicrobial action of silver ions. Several approaches of surface treatment of medical devices for the antimicrobial purposes, such as electrodeposition, electroless deposition, physical vapor deposition, - radiation, etc. have been used in practice. It is clear that only silver ions are responsible for the antimicrobial activity. As confirmed experimentally, only samples containing silver compounds can deliberate silver ions in the tested media and exhibit antimicrobial activity both in vitro and in vivo. There is no evidence that elemental silver, even its so-called nano-crystalline state, exhibits an antimicrobial activity. Consequently, the devices coated with nano-crystalline silver should carefully be taken into consideration before the application.” From the full article in Google books: http://books.google.com/books?id=mWFylRiXV8cCpg=PT9lpg=PT9dq=%22Treatment+of+various+surfaces+with+silver+and+its+compounds+for+topical+wound+dressings%22source=blots=ixGCz2qti9sig=of-Mkcn3VyMVbo0syg6hZMiY788hl=enei=-pMdS7rvN87anAfX2dzeAwsa=Xoi=book_resultct=resultresnum=2ved=0CBIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepageq=%22Treatment%20of%20various%20surfaces%20with%20silver%20and%20its%20compounds%20for%20topical%20wound%20dressings%22f=false “Based on the observation that metallic silver may exhibit some antimicrobial activity, when sufficiently long in contact with interstitial fluids
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
If this is the case and is true, why is it that *our* silver works perfectly well then? My dog has just been cured of sickness and inertia with a day of ionic silver, when other dogs which exhibited similar symptoms have had to be hospitalised on drips. You cannot fool animals! Also, our family has all had colds but thats all they have had. It hasn't developed into a real illness like my friends have. dee On 7 Feb 2010, at 22:51, poast wrote: Hello Ode, Thank you so much for sharing the name of David A. Revelli. He, and Brigam Young University, have been involved in a lot of testing that puts CS in a very favorable light. However, the water test was done with nano-catalytic silver particles with a tetrasilver tetroxide coating that emit a frequency that kills microbes. I am not sure the EIS that you and I make shares these qualities. http://www.hempusa.org/ABL/General_Studies/Ionic_vs._Metallic_and_Particle_Size.pdf -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
The photographic process which causes argyria is normally associated with silver halides, such as silver chloride and bromide. So one might assume that silver citrate, which is more stable than silver chloride might not be a problem. Unfortunately experience with Silver Oz which is silver citrate has shown that it too can cause argyria. Marshall sol wrote: What about silver citrate? There have been discussions on this list on how to make it. But I have read that silver citrate is also highly likely to cause argryia? Is that not true? sol At 12:28 PM 2/5/2010, you wrote: That sounds fine. That's what I do as well. I don't think there is any difference between CS and EIS for purposes of this forum. EIS is Electrically Isolated Silver, which is a form of CS, with around 10-20% colloidal silver particles, and 80-90% ionic silver particles, which I understand are AgOH. CS is what most people call EIS. In fact the only place I have heard EIS is on this forum. The rest of the world calls it CS. EIS is more accurate, I believe, only because there are other ways to make CS, such as from nano-silver-powder, which apparently involves no electricity. So I suppose it's good to distinguish them by using the abbrev EIS. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Richard Goodwin wrote: I keep hearing that: once silver ions hit the salty stomach or blood, they become silver chloride... But, something was already x-chloride in both stomach and blood -- sodium chloride? So what does silver do? Push the sodium aside and take over the chloride ions? How does it do that? And what happens to the sodium ions? Or does an excess of positive ions of whatever kind go unmatched with the lesser number of negative ones? Silver like any other element will react in such a way that it goes from less stable to more stable. The order of stability for silver compounds was posted on this list by me just a couple of weeks ago. If you look at it you will see that silver citrate is MORE stable than silver chloride, and thus will not convert from the citrate state to the chloride state when it enters the stomach, or blood stream. In the stomach the silver combines with the HCl in the stomach, producing silver chloride if it is of a less stable form than silver chloride. For example the silver hydroxide AgOH in EIS will combine with HCl in the stomach producing AgCl and H2O, dihydrogen monoxide, also known as water. However silver nitrate will produce nitric acid when it reacts with HCl, and is why it is so corrosive and toxic. Marshall Help! Dick *From:* Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com *To:* silver-list@eskimo.com *Sent:* Fri, February 5, 2010 5:59:46 PM *Subject:* Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? I was skirting this because it is a secondary issue. Silver ions are very active and will form compounds with the first substance it can. Silver ions do not survive the digestive system as free ions. They probably react with stomach acid to primarily form silver chloride. The silver may also react with other substances such as ammopnia to form other compounds. But they do not remain as silver ions. - Steve N *From*: poast po...@prodigy.net *To*: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com *Sent*: Fri Feb 05 16:03:24 2010 *Subject*: Re: CS Hello Steve, OK, I am beginning to understand. I have looked at the Altman paper, but have not studied it. I will take another look at it, in detail. If I may present a somewhat weak argument... Doesn't it stand to reason that if you take more, you will not only ingest more ions, but also more particles. Perhaps the elimination through the kidney is just because there is more of both in the body... Back to the books, for now. Thanks. Tom - Original Message - *From:* Norton, Steve mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.com *To:* silver-list@eskimo.com mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com *Sent:* Friday, February 05, 2010 10:43 AM *Subject:* CS Tom, I am not suggesting daily use over use as needed. There was a time when I first used EIS I used it several times a day. It allowed me to get off a long term dependence on antibiotics. Now I take it when I think I need it. As to why I think that large doses of EIS do not significantly increase the effectiveness of EIS is a little more complex and somewhat controversial. It has to do with how EIS is processed in the body. The best clue to that comes from the Altman Silver Excretion Study. You can find the study at the Silver Medicine web site. Unfortunately the study pnly provides clues but not definitive answers. That is where the interpretation I mentioned in may previous post is important. IMO the important issue is whether the silver eliminated by the kidney is is in solution or particulate form. Silver in solution is far more active than silver in particulate form. There are varying opinions on that question. One of the more popular theories is that it is a soluble silver/ammonia compound is formed and since it contains ammonia it is removed by the kidney. However I have found that one of the most likely ammonia compounds, Ag(NH3)2, is eliminated by the liver and not the kidney. While I cannot say it with absolute certainly, my research indicates that all silver compounds in solution are removed by the liver. For various reasons it appaers that taking large ammounts of EIS predominately increases the amount of silver that excretes through the kidney which is therefore the much less effective particulate form. So I suggested two complementary methods that will increase the silver that is in solution while reducing the amount in particulate form. One is holding additional EIS in the mouth to allow transport of silver ions through the mucosal tissues without swallowing. The other is contained in the note regarding the use of Gatortade. I hope this helps. - Steve - Original Message - From: poast po...@prodigy.net
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
If silver-tet works it's because it emits or exposes silver ions on a molecular level. Filters stay sterile because the ion exchange resins emit [exchange] ions and/or make ions on the surface of the resin that contact the water. [in which a bio film would grow] If they emit enough ions, or if all of the water contacts the resin surface, then the water becomes sterile as well. Potable water sterilization systems on merchant marine ships are no different than our CS generators. It doesn't use silver coated filters. Just try and get an electromagnetic frequency to travel in water like it would in space, then tell submariners about it 'cause they'd love to know and get away from ELF that's slow enough for the pulse ionization of sea water to make a detectable difference. If that's not the case then the wave is long enough to find space between water molecules...but then it has to miss a whole lot of water molecules. .anything that has to do with electrons in a liquid is pretty much ionic. A Zapper makes acid and base electrochemical byproducts out of the salt ions in the blood to transfer electrons around. Scientist often write reports based on what those who pay them want to prove...and...hide. Leave a little detail out ? It just sounds different without changing the principles. Cars are more complicated than bicycles and they aren't the same thing, but they both move on wheels and *do* the same thing the same way. [roll] Ode At 02:51 PM 2/7/2010 -0800, you wrote: Hello Ode, Thank you so much for sharing the name of David A. Revelli. He, and Brigam Young University, have been involved in a lot of testing that puts CS in a very favorable light. However, the water test was done with nano-catalytic silver particles with a tetrasilver tetroxide coating that emit a frequency that kills microbes. I am not sure the EIS that you and I make shares these qualities. http://www.hempusa.org/ABL/General_Studies/Ionic_vs._Metallic_and_Particle_Size.pdf I am somewhat familiar with water treatment. I will have to do some more studying, but I was under the impression that the silver used for water filters was to prevent biofilm from growing between batch use of the filters. I don't think it is used to actually prufiy the water, but rather to keep it from becoming contaminated during the filtering process. The Brigam Young people have also run tests indicating that their silver doesn't seem to effect healthy intestinal flora bacteria while still being effective at killing pathogenic bacteria. Interesting... http://www.hempusa.org/ABL/Safety_Studies/Selective%20Antimicrobial%20Activity%20of%20ASAP-AGX-32%20Silver%20Solution%20against%20Probiotics%20%28Dr.%20Ron%20Leavitt%29.pdf Tom - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:18 AM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Brigham Young University did a detailed time/PPM/kill study. Don't recall details well, but [probably] as little as 3 PPB sterilized water over some period of time, where 3 PPM did it a lot faster. David A. Revelli Microbiologist Brigham Young University Dr. Ron W. Leavitt, Ph.D. Professor of Microbiology/Molecular Biology Commercial silver ion water treatment systems have been available for decades and are used by the merchant marines, various airlines, NASA., some water treatment plants both in the USA and Russia. Honeywell Rockwell and others us Ag-Ion [TM] silver ion exchange resins to keep filters sterile. Curad silver bandaids work by using body fluids as the electrolyte to make silver ions migrate from a silver fabric layer to an aluminum fabric layer. [Battery effect] http://www.silverinstitute.org/medical_applications.php The newest trend is the use of nano-silver particles to deliver silver ions. ANY chemical reaction involves the exchange of ions [??] I sorta recall hearing that the the whole field of chemistry can be expressed in electrical terms. Copper and zinc [and many other] ions will also kill germs. ode At 01:52 PM 2/6/2010 -0800, you wrote:  Hello Steve, I am begining to realize that the exact mechanism of how silver works inside the body is still a little theoritical... Let's jump outside the body for just a moment. Other sanatizers require a concentration of the product to be in contact with the pathogen for a period of time. With chlorine dioxide, for example, the CT values allow you to adjust the process time for the concentration you are using. When disinfecting wilderness water, I use a CT of 1000 mg-minutes/liter. When I mix up a 4 PPM chlorine dioxide solution, I know that to sanatize a liter of water it is going to take 250 minutes. If I have lots of time, and am concerned with better taste, I can reduce the concentration to 2 PPM chlorine dioxide, and extend the time out to 500 minutes
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Hello Dee, Actually, my comment was meant to be a bit of a tongue in cheek sarcastic comment. It very well could be that the silver that we make shares many chacteristics with the other stuff. It may be that home made EIS is actually more effective than the other stuff, but I have not been able to find formal tests indicating this. In this case American Biotech Laboratories has funded the studies with their products, applied for, and received a patent for their product and the process for making their product, and they have a few EPA registered products. They have a lot of testing data that indicates that their product works, and we have seen many cases indicating that our product works, so the question may be better directed to what the differences are with CS made from high voltage AC and EIS made from low voltage DC. Tom - Original Message - From: Dorothy Fitzpatrick d...@deetroy.org To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 3:51 AM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? If this is the case and is true, why is it that *our* silver works perfectly well then? My dog has just been cured of sickness and inertia with a day of ionic silver, when other dogs which exhibited similar symptoms have had to be hospitalised on drips. You cannot fool animals! Also, our family has all had colds but thats all they have had. It hasn't developed into a real illness like my friends have. dee On 7 Feb 2010, at 22:51, poast wrote: Hello Ode, Thank you so much for sharing the name of David A. Revelli. He, and Brigam Young University, have been involved in a lot of testing that puts CS in a very favorable light. However, the water test was done with nano-catalytic silver particles with a tetrasilver tetroxide coating that emit a frequency that kills microbes. I am not sure the EIS that you and I make shares these qualities. http://www.hempusa.org/ABL/General_Studies/Ionic_vs._Metallic_and_Particle_Size.pdf -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Hello Ode, They make a big deal about the oxide on the outside of their silver particles. Then they mention that they are adding H2O2. Does the H2O2 play a part in the oxidation? The ships I have been on use chlorine and carry bottled water for drinking... I am still doing research on the silver filters. What I have run across so far is ceramic filters with silver impregnated into them. If they are large enough and the flow is right, they can kill pathogens in the water. We are back to a concentration of silver in contact with the pathogen for a period of time. I work in the scientific community. Yes it is possible to color a report to emphasize a particular point, however, most scientists will include data, and that is the equalizer. You start with the data and then see if the conclusions are supported by the data. The difficult thing to know is if all the data is included... I will have to pick up a bottle of the nano-catalytic silver particles with a tetrasilver tetroxide coating that emit a frequency that kills microbes and hold it up to my ear and see if I can hear anything... :) Tom - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 8:11 AM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? If silver-tet works it's because it emits or exposes silver ions on a molecular level. Filters stay sterile because the ion exchange resins emit [exchange] ions and/or make ions on the surface of the resin that contact the water. [in which a bio film would grow] If they emit enough ions, or if all of the water contacts the resin surface, then the water becomes sterile as well. Potable water sterilization systems on merchant marine ships are no different than our CS generators. It doesn't use silver coated filters. Just try and get an electromagnetic frequency to travel in water like it would in space, then tell submariners about it 'cause they'd love to know and get away from ELF that's slow enough for the pulse ionization of sea water to make a detectable difference. If that's not the case then the wave is long enough to find space between water molecules...but then it has to miss a whole lot of water molecules. .anything that has to do with electrons in a liquid is pretty much ionic. A Zapper makes acid and base electrochemical byproducts out of the salt ions in the blood to transfer electrons around. Scientist often write reports based on what those who pay them want to prove...and...hide. Leave a little detail out ? It just sounds different without changing the principles. Cars are more complicated than bicycles and they aren't the same thing, but they both move on wheels and *do* the same thing the same way. [roll] Ode At 02:51 PM 2/7/2010 -0800, you wrote: Hello Ode, Thank you so much for sharing the name of David A. Revelli. He, and Brigam Young University, have been involved in a lot of testing that puts CS in a very favorable light. However, the water test was done with nano-catalytic silver particles with a tetrasilver tetroxide coating that emit a frequency that kills microbes. I am not sure the EIS that you and I make shares these qualities. http://www.hempusa.org/ABL/General_Studies/Ionic_vs._Metallic_and_Particle_ Size.pdf I am somewhat familiar with water treatment. I will have to do some more studying, but I was under the impression that the silver used for water filters was to prevent biofilm from growing between batch use of the filters. I don't think it is used to actually prufiy the water, but rather to keep it from becoming contaminated during the filtering process. The Brigam Young people have also run tests indicating that their silver doesn't seem to effect healthy intestinal flora bacteria while still being effective at killing pathogenic bacteria. Interesting... http://www.hempusa.org/ABL/Safety_Studies/Selective%20Antimicrobial%20Activ ity%20of%20ASAP-AGX-32%20Silver%20Solution%20against%20Probiotics%20%28Dr.%2 0Ron%20Leavitt%29.pdf Tom - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:18 AM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Brigham Young University did a detailed time/PPM/kill study. Don't recall details well, but [probably] as little as 3 PPB sterilized water over some period of time, where 3 PPM did it a lot faster. David A. Revelli Microbiologist Brigham Young University Dr. Ron W. Leavitt, Ph.D. Professor of Microbiology/Molecular Biology Commercial silver ion water treatment systems have been available for decades and are used by the merchant marines, various airlines, NASA., some water treatment plants both in the USA and Russia. Honeywell Rockwell and others us Ag-Ion [TM] silver ion exchange resins to keep
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Brigham Young University did a detailed time/PPM/kill study. Don't recall details well, but [probably] as little as 3 PPB sterilized water over some period of time, where 3 PPM did it a lot faster. David A. Revelli Microbiologist Brigham Young University Dr. Ron W. Leavitt, Ph.D. Professor of Microbiology/Molecular Biology Commercial silver ion water treatment systems have been available for decades and are used by the merchant marines, various airlines, NASA., some water treatment plants both in the USA and Russia. Honeywell Rockwell and others us Ag-Ion [TM] silver ion exchange resins to keep filters sterile. Curad silver bandaids work by using body fluids as the electrolyte to make silver ions migrate from a silver fabric layer to an aluminum fabric layer. [Battery effect] http://www.silverinstitute.org/medical_applications.php The newest trend is the use of nano-silver particles to deliver silver ions. ANY chemical reaction involves the exchange of ions [??] I sorta recall hearing that the the whole field of chemistry can be expressed in electrical terms. Copper and zinc [and many other] ions will also kill germs. ode At 01:52 PM 2/6/2010 -0800, you wrote:  Hello Steve, I am begining to realize that the exact mechanism of how silver works inside the body is still a little theoritical... Let's jump outside the body for just a moment. Other sanatizers require a concentration of the product to be in contact with the pathogen for a period of time. With chlorine dioxide, for example, the CT values allow you to adjust the process time for the concentration you are using. When disinfecting wilderness water, I use a CT of 1000 mg-minutes/liter. When I mix up a 4 PPM chlorine dioxide solution, I know that to sanatize a liter of water it is going to take 250 minutes. If I have lots of time, and am concerned with better taste, I can reduce the concentration to 2 PPM chlorine dioxide, and extend the time out to 500 minutes. Does anything like this exist for EIS? Tom - Original Message - From: mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.comNorton, Steve To: mailto:silver-list@eskimo.comsilver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:59 PM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? I was skirting this because it is a secondary issue. Silver ions are very active and will form compounds with the first substance it can. Silver ions do not survive the digestive system as free ions. They probably react with stomach acid to primarily form silver chloride. The silver may also react with other substances such as ammopnia to form other compounds. But they do not remain as silver ions. - Steve N -- From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 16:03:24 2010 Subject: Re: CS Hello Steve, OK, I am beginning to understand. I have looked at the Altman paper, but have not studied it. I will take another look at it, in detail. If I may present a somewhat weak argument... Doesn't it stand to reason that if you take more, you will not only ingest more ions, but also more particles. Perhaps the elimination through the kidney is just because there is more of both in the body... Back to the books, for now. Thanks. Tom - Original Message - From: mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.comNorton, Steve To: mailto:silver-list@eskimo.comsilver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: CS Tom, I am not suggesting daily use over use as needed. There was a time when I first used EIS I used it several times a day. It allowed me to get off a long term dependence on antibiotics. Now I take it when I think I need it. As to why I think that large doses of EIS do not significantly increase the effectiveness of EIS is a little more complex and somewhat controversial. It has to do with how EIS is processed in the body. The best clue to that comes from the Altman Silver Excretion Study. You can find the study at the Silver Medicine web site. Unfortunately the study pnly provides clues but not definitive answers. That is where the interpretation I mentioned in may previous post is important. IMO the important issue is whether the silver eliminated by the kidney is is in solution or particulate form. Silver in solution is far more active than silver in particulate form. There are varying opinions on that question. One of the more popular theories is that it is a soluble silver/ammonia compound is formed and since it contains ammonia it is removed by the kidney. However I have found that one of the most likely ammonia compounds, Ag(NH3)2, is eliminated by the liver and not the kidney. While I cannot say it with absolute certainly, my research indicates that all silver compounds in solution are removed by the liver. For various reasons it appaers that taking large ammounts of EIS predominately increases the amount of silver that excretes through the kidney
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
We do have an ability to make workable decisions based on nearly no information...but they aren't always the best ones. If there are enough stones there to get across the stream, the other stones don't matter once on the other side. But, that's not the only way to get across. Ode At 03:33 PM 2/6/2010 -0800, you wrote: Hello Ode, When I studied chaos theory in school I was sure this was something that I would never be able to actually apply. Now I am not so sure... I have played with little children who can do a great job of connecting the dots, and do so effortlessly. Perhaps we just need to be a little more creative in our approach. On the other hand, who needs dots anyway... :) Tom - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 5:02 AM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? However, the body is a dynamic chemical soup loaded with intelligent ion exchanges and [to coin a phrase] nano battery effects. Anything done in a test tube isn't going to tell the whole story. Given individual differences and temporary conditions, there may not even BE a whole story to tell. This is like a game of connect the dots with most of the dots missing. Ode At 04:59 PM 2/5/2010 -0600, you wrote: I was skirting this because it is a secondary issue. Silver ions are very active and will form compounds with the first substance it can. Silver ions do not survive the digestive system as free ions. They probably react with stomach acid to primarily form silver chloride. The silver may also react with other substances such as ammopnia to form other compounds. But they do not remain as silver ions. - Steve N -- From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 16:03:24 2010 Subject: Re: CS Hello Steve, OK, I am beginning to understand. I have looked at the Altman paper, but have not studied it. I will take another look at it, in detail. If I may present a somewhat weak argument... Doesn't it stand to reason that if you take more, you will not only ingest more ions, but also more particles. Perhaps the elimination through the kidney is just because there is more of both in the body... Back to the books, for now. Thanks. Tom - Original Message - From: mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.comNorton, Steve To: mailto:silver-list@eskimo.comsilver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: CS Tom, I am not suggesting daily use over use as needed. There was a time when I first used EIS I used it several times a day. It allowed me to get off a long term dependence on antibiotics. Now I take it when I think I need it. As to why I think that large doses of EIS do not significantly increase the effectiveness of EIS is a little more complex and somewhat controversial. It has to do with how EIS is processed in the body. The best clue to that comes from the Altman Silver Excretion Study. You can find the study at the Silver Medicine web site. Unfortunately the study pnly provides clues but not definitive answers. That is where the interpretation I mentioned in may previous post is important. IMO the important issue is whether the silver eliminated by the kidney is is in solution or particulate form. Silver in solution is far more active than silver in particulate form. There are varying opinions on that question. One of the more popular theories is that it is a soluble silver/ammonia compound is formed and since it contains ammonia it is removed by the kidney. However I have found that one of the most likely ammonia compounds, Ag(NH3)2, is eliminated by the liver and not the kidney. While I cannot say it with absolute certainly, my research indicates that all silver compounds in solution are removed by the liver. For various reasons it appaers that taking large ammounts of EIS predominately increases the amount of silver that excretes through the kidney which is therefore the much less effective particulate form. So I suggested two complementary methods that will increase the silver that is in solution while reducing the amount in particulate form. One is holding additional EIS in the mouth to allow transport of silver ions through the mucosal tissues without swallowing. The other is contained in the note regarding the use of Gatortade. I hope this helps. - Steve - Original Message - From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 11:03:13 2010 Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Hello Steve, I am totally new to EIS, so please be gentle with me... Your opinion seems to be that the best use EIS is to maintain a level in the body through daily use. You also indicate that you don't think that a large dose of EIS is effective. As I
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Hello Ode, Thank you so much for sharing the name of David A. Revelli. He, and Brigam Young University, have been involved in a lot of testing that puts CS in a very favorable light. However, the water test was done with nano-catalytic silver particles with a tetrasilver tetroxide coating that emit a frequency that kills microbes. I am not sure the EIS that you and I make shares these qualities. http://www.hempusa.org/ABL/General_Studies/Ionic_vs._Metallic_and_Particle_Size.pdf I am somewhat familiar with water treatment. I will have to do some more studying, but I was under the impression that the silver used for water filters was to prevent biofilm from growing between batch use of the filters. I don't think it is used to actually prufiy the water, but rather to keep it from becoming contaminated during the filtering process. The Brigam Young people have also run tests indicating that their silver doesn't seem to effect healthy intestinal flora bacteria while still being effective at killing pathogenic bacteria. Interesting... http://www.hempusa.org/ABL/Safety_Studies/Selective%20Antimicrobial%20Activity%20of%20ASAP-AGX-32%20Silver%20Solution%20against%20Probiotics%20%28Dr.%20Ron%20Leavitt%29.pdf Tom - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:18 AM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Brigham Young University did a detailed time/PPM/kill study. Don't recall details well, but [probably] as little as 3 PPB sterilized water over some period of time, where 3 PPM did it a lot faster. David A. Revelli Microbiologist Brigham Young University Dr. Ron W. Leavitt, Ph.D. Professor of Microbiology/Molecular Biology Commercial silver ion water treatment systems have been available for decades and are used by the merchant marines, various airlines, NASA., some water treatment plants both in the USA and Russia. Honeywell Rockwell and others us Ag-Ion [TM] silver ion exchange resins to keep filters sterile. Curad silver bandaids work by using body fluids as the electrolyte to make silver ions migrate from a silver fabric layer to an aluminum fabric layer. [Battery effect] http://www.silverinstitute.org/medical_applications.php The newest trend is the use of nano-silver particles to deliver silver ions. ANY chemical reaction involves the exchange of ions [??] I sorta recall hearing that the the whole field of chemistry can be expressed in electrical terms. Copper and zinc [and many other] ions will also kill germs. ode At 01:52 PM 2/6/2010 -0800, you wrote:  Hello Steve, I am begining to realize that the exact mechanism of how silver works inside the body is still a little theoritical... Let's jump outside the body for just a moment. Other sanatizers require a concentration of the product to be in contact with the pathogen for a period of time. With chlorine dioxide, for example, the CT values allow you to adjust the process time for the concentration you are using. When disinfecting wilderness water, I use a CT of 1000 mg-minutes/liter. When I mix up a 4 PPM chlorine dioxide solution, I know that to sanatize a liter of water it is going to take 250 minutes. If I have lots of time, and am concerned with better taste, I can reduce the concentration to 2 PPM chlorine dioxide, and extend the time out to 500 minutes. Does anything like this exist for EIS? Tom - Original Message - From: mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.comNorton, Steve To: mailto:silver-list@eskimo.comsilver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:59 PM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? I was skirting this because it is a secondary issue. Silver ions are very active and will form compounds with the first substance it can. Silver ions do not survive the digestive system as free ions. They probably react with stomach acid to primarily form silver chloride. The silver may also react with other substances such as ammopnia to form other compounds. But they do not remain as silver ions. - Steve N -- From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 16:03:24 2010 Subject: Re: CS Hello Steve, OK, I am beginning to understand. I have looked at the Altman paper, but have not studied it. I will take another look at it, in detail. If I may present a somewhat weak argument... Doesn't it stand to reason that if you take more, you will not only ingest more ions, but also more particles. Perhaps the elimination through the kidney is just because there is more of both in the body... Back to the books, for now. Thanks. Tom - Original Message - From: mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.comNorton, Steve To: mailto:silver-list@eskimo.comsilver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: CS Tom, I am
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
I would think that would be prohibitively expensive here in the UK even if there is anywhere that could do it. dee On 6 Feb 2010, at 00:41, Neville Munn wrote: Dick's snipped quote: [10-20% colloidal silver particles, and 80-90% ionic silver particles] I would suggest a number of people should get a number of home made samples tested, of differing ppm or uS readings, and over various time frames *after* cessation of production and give some feedback. There's no way in this world I can accept published ion/particle ratio's should be accepted as the general rule, a guide perhaps, some I believe would interpret it as meaning *that* is what they should be getting when *that* could be far removed from the actuallity. While it may be a generalization, home producers should not consider it the rule, unless they have more information supplied to go on which will enable them to make better determinations. Published material is based on science, Joe and Jenny Bloggs can't base their home produced solutions on science, but moreso on *artistic flair* is how I see it, in combination with some science principals praps. And I assume there are a number of 'Joe and Jenny Bloggs' on here, if not, then I'm *well* out of my depth and will fade away. I welcome anyone to shoot holes through all this in the interest of furthering my knowledge, have to add though that in all probability I won't be in a position to reply cos I'm no scientist and don't savvy the lingo, but I'd be more than happy to READ any thoughts or considerations on it. N.
RE: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
I know Dee, I consider myself extremely fortunate I was able to get several of mine done. Don't know if I got ALL the important bits necessarily, but I think I got most, or *enough*, important bits for me to work with. N. From: d...@deetroy.org Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:59:49 + To: silver-list@eskimo.com I would think that would be prohibitively expensive here in the UK even if there is anywhere that could do it. dee On 6 Feb 2010, at 00:41, Neville Munn wrote: Dick's snipped quote: [10-20% colloidal silver particles, and 80-90% ionic silver particles] I would suggest a number of people should get a number of home made samples tested, of differing ppm or uS readings, and over various time frames *after* cessation of production and give some feedback. There's no way in this world I can accept published ion/particle ratio's should be accepted as the general rule, a guide perhaps, some I believe would interpret it as meaning *that* is what they should be getting when *that* could be far removed from the actuallity. While it may be a generalization, home producers should not consider it the rule, unless they have more information supplied to go on which will enable them to make better determinations. Published material is based on science, Joe and Jenny Bloggs can't base their home produced solutions on science, but moreso on *artistic flair* is how I see it, in combination with some science principals praps. And I assume there are a number of 'Joe and Jenny Bloggs' on here, if not, then I'm *well* out of my depth and will fade away. I welcome anyone to shoot holes through all this in the interest of furthering my knowledge, have to add though that in all probability I won't be in a position to reply cos I'm no scientist and don't savvy the lingo, but I'd be more than happy to READ any thoughts or considerations on it. N. _ View photos of singles in your area! Browse profiles for FREE http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Silver Citrate can be made very strong and enough silver retained in any form can cause Argyria. EIS can't be made very strong and still look good. Ode At 03:25 PM 2/5/2010 -0700, you wrote: What about silver citrate? There have been discussions on this list on how to make it. But I have read that silver citrate is also highly likely to cause argryia? Is that not true? sol At 12:28 PM 2/5/2010, you wrote: That sounds fine. That's what I do as well. I don't think there is any difference between CS and EIS for purposes of this forum. EIS is Electrically Isolated Silver, which is a form of CS, with around 10-20% colloidal silver particles, and 80-90% ionic silver particles, which I understand are AgOH. CS is what most people call EIS. In fact the only place I have heard EIS is on this forum. The rest of the world calls it CS. EIS is more accurate, I believe, only because there are other ways to make CS, such as from nano-silver-powder, which apparently involves no electricity. So I suppose it's good to distinguish them by using the abbrev EIS. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
However, the body is a dynamic chemical soup loaded with intelligent ion exchanges and [to coin a phrase] nano battery effects. Anything done in a test tube isn't going to tell the whole story. Given individual differences and temporary conditions, there may not even BE a whole story to tell. This is like a game of connect the dots with most of the dots missing. Ode At 04:59 PM 2/5/2010 -0600, you wrote: I was skirting this because it is a secondary issue. Silver ions are very active and will form compounds with the first substance it can. Silver ions do not survive the digestive system as free ions. They probably react with stomach acid to primarily form silver chloride. The silver may also react with other substances such as ammopnia to form other compounds. But they do not remain as silver ions. - Steve N -- From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 16:03:24 2010 Subject: Re: CS Hello Steve, OK, I am beginning to understand. I have looked at the Altman paper, but have not studied it. I will take another look at it, in detail. If I may present a somewhat weak argument... Doesn't it stand to reason that if you take more, you will not only ingest more ions, but also more particles. Perhaps the elimination through the kidney is just because there is more of both in the body... Back to the books, for now. Thanks. Tom - Original Message - From: mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.comNorton, Steve To: mailto:silver-list@eskimo.comsilver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: CS Tom, I am not suggesting daily use over use as needed. There was a time when I first used EIS I used it several times a day. It allowed me to get off a long term dependence on antibiotics. Now I take it when I think I need it. As to why I think that large doses of EIS do not significantly increase the effectiveness of EIS is a little more complex and somewhat controversial. It has to do with how EIS is processed in the body. The best clue to that comes from the Altman Silver Excretion Study. You can find the study at the Silver Medicine web site. Unfortunately the study pnly provides clues but not definitive answers. That is where the interpretation I mentioned in may previous post is important. IMO the important issue is whether the silver eliminated by the kidney is is in solution or particulate form. Silver in solution is far more active than silver in particulate form. There are varying opinions on that question. One of the more popular theories is that it is a soluble silver/ammonia compound is formed and since it contains ammonia it is removed by the kidney. However I have found that one of the most likely ammonia compounds, Ag(NH3)2, is eliminated by the liver and not the kidney. While I cannot say it with absolute certainly, my research indicates that all silver compounds in solution are removed by the liver. For various reasons it appaers that taking large ammounts of EIS predominately increases the amount of silver that excretes through the kidney which is therefore the much less effective particulate form. So I suggested two complementary methods that will increase the silver that is in solution while reducing the amount in particulate form. One is holding additional EIS in the mouth to allow transport of silver ions through the mucosal tissues without swallowing. The other is contained in the note regarding the use of Gatortade. I hope this helps. - Steve - Original Message - From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 11:03:13 2010 Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Hello Steve, I am totally new to EIS, so please be gentle with me... Your opinion seems to be that the best use EIS is to maintain a level in the body through daily use. You also indicate that you don't think that a large dose of EIS is effective. As I ponder this I find myself finding it difficult to understand. It would seem that if your body was invaded by a bunch of bad guys they would overwhelm the good guys in your body, and an influx of a large good guy army would help win the war. I know this is over simplified, but isn't the idea to expose the bad guys to a concentration of the EIS? I am probably missing a lot, but any big picture concepts would be greatly appreciated. Tom -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Hello Steve, I am begining to realize that the exact mechanism of how silver works inside the body is still a little theoritical... Let's jump outside the body for just a moment. Other sanatizers require a concentration of the product to be in contact with the pathogen for a period of time. With chlorine dioxide, for example, the CT values allow you to adjust the process time for the concentration you are using. When disinfecting wilderness water, I use a CT of 1000 mg-minutes/liter. When I mix up a 4 PPM chlorine dioxide solution, I know that to sanatize a liter of water it is going to take 250 minutes. If I have lots of time, and am concerned with better taste, I can reduce the concentration to 2 PPM chlorine dioxide, and extend the time out to 500 minutes. Does anything like this exist for EIS? Tom - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:59 PM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? I was skirting this because it is a secondary issue. Silver ions are very active and will form compounds with the first substance it can. Silver ions do not survive the digestive system as free ions. They probably react with stomach acid to primarily form silver chloride. The silver may also react with other substances such as ammopnia to form other compounds. But they do not remain as silver ions. - Steve N -- From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 16:03:24 2010 Subject: Re: CS Hello Steve, OK, I am beginning to understand. I have looked at the Altman paper, but have not studied it. I will take another look at it, in detail. If I may present a somewhat weak argument... Doesn't it stand to reason that if you take more, you will not only ingest more ions, but also more particles. Perhaps the elimination through the kidney is just because there is more of both in the body... Back to the books, for now. Thanks. Tom - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: CS Tom, I am not suggesting daily use over use as needed. There was a time when I first used EIS I used it several times a day. It allowed me to get off a long term dependence on antibiotics. Now I take it when I think I need it. As to why I think that large doses of EIS do not significantly increase the effectiveness of EIS is a little more complex and somewhat controversial. It has to do with how EIS is processed in the body. The best clue to that comes from the Altman Silver Excretion Study. You can find the study at the Silver Medicine web site. Unfortunately the study pnly provides clues but not definitive answers. That is where the interpretation I mentioned in may previous post is important. IMO the important issue is whether the silver eliminated by the kidney is is in solution or particulate form. Silver in solution is far more active than silver in particulate form. There are varying opinions on that question. One of the more popular theories is that it is a soluble silver/ammonia compound is formed and since it contains ammonia it is removed by the kidney. However I have found that one of the most likely ammonia compounds, Ag(NH3)2, is eliminated by the liver and not the kidney. While I cannot say it with absolute certainly, my research indicates that all silver compounds in solution are removed by the liver. For various reasons it appaers that taking large ammounts of EIS predominately increases the amount of silver that excretes through the kidney which is therefore the much less effective particulate form. So I suggested two complementary methods that will increase the silver that is in solution while reducing the amount in particulate form. One is holding additional EIS in the mouth to allow transport of silver ions through the mucosal tissues without swallowing. The other is contained in the note regarding the use of Gatortade. I hope this helps. - Steve - Original Message - From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 11:03:13 2010 Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Hello Steve, I am totally new to EIS, so please be gentle with me... Your opinion seems to be that the best use EIS is to maintain a level in the body through daily use. You also indicate that you don't think that a large dose of EIS is effective. As I ponder this I find myself finding it difficult to understand. It would seem that if your body was invaded by a bunch of bad guys they would overwhelm the good guys in your body, and an influx of a large good guy army would help win
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Hello Ode, When I studied chaos theory in school I was sure this was something that I would never be able to actually apply. Now I am not so sure... I have played with little children who can do a great job of connecting the dots, and do so effortlessly. Perhaps we just need to be a little more creative in our approach. On the other hand, who needs dots anyway... :) Tom - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 5:02 AM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? However, the body is a dynamic chemical soup loaded with intelligent ion exchanges and [to coin a phrase] nano battery effects. Anything done in a test tube isn't going to tell the whole story. Given individual differences and temporary conditions, there may not even BE a whole story to tell. This is like a game of connect the dots with most of the dots missing. Ode At 04:59 PM 2/5/2010 -0600, you wrote: I was skirting this because it is a secondary issue. Silver ions are very active and will form compounds with the first substance it can. Silver ions do not survive the digestive system as free ions. They probably react with stomach acid to primarily form silver chloride. The silver may also react with other substances such as ammopnia to form other compounds. But they do not remain as silver ions. - Steve N -- From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 16:03:24 2010 Subject: Re: CS Hello Steve, OK, I am beginning to understand. I have looked at the Altman paper, but have not studied it. I will take another look at it, in detail. If I may present a somewhat weak argument... Doesn't it stand to reason that if you take more, you will not only ingest more ions, but also more particles. Perhaps the elimination through the kidney is just because there is more of both in the body... Back to the books, for now. Thanks. Tom - Original Message - From: mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.comNorton, Steve To: mailto:silver-list@eskimo.comsilver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: CS Tom, I am not suggesting daily use over use as needed. There was a time when I first used EIS I used it several times a day. It allowed me to get off a long term dependence on antibiotics. Now I take it when I think I need it. As to why I think that large doses of EIS do not significantly increase the effectiveness of EIS is a little more complex and somewhat controversial. It has to do with how EIS is processed in the body. The best clue to that comes from the Altman Silver Excretion Study. You can find the study at the Silver Medicine web site. Unfortunately the study pnly provides clues but not definitive answers. That is where the interpretation I mentioned in may previous post is important. IMO the important issue is whether the silver eliminated by the kidney is is in solution or particulate form. Silver in solution is far more active than silver in particulate form. There are varying opinions on that question. One of the more popular theories is that it is a soluble silver/ammonia compound is formed and since it contains ammonia it is removed by the kidney. However I have found that one of the most likely ammonia compounds, Ag(NH3)2, is eliminated by the liver and not the kidney. While I cannot say it with absolute certainly, my research indicates that all silver compounds in solution are removed by the liver. For various reasons it appaers that taking large ammounts of EIS predominately increases the amount of silver that excretes through the kidney which is therefore the much less effective particulate form. So I suggested two complementary methods that will increase the silver that is in solution while reducing the amount in particulate form. One is holding additional EIS in the mouth to allow transport of silver ions through the mucosal tissues without swallowing. The other is contained in the note regarding the use of Gatortade. I hope this helps. - Steve - Original Message - From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 11:03:13 2010 Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Hello Steve, I am totally new to EIS, so please be gentle with me... Your opinion seems to be that the best use EIS is to maintain a level in the body through daily use. You also indicate that you don't think that a large dose of EIS is effective. As I ponder this I find myself finding it difficult to understand. It would seem that if your body was invaded by a bunch of bad guys they would overwhelm the good guys in your body, and an influx of a large good guy army would help win the war. I know this is over simplified, but isn't the idea to expose the bad guys
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Hmmm Chaos Theory...That was the designation of the lunch room... Chuck Somebody has to go polish the stars... On 2/6/2010 6:33:05 PM, poast (po...@prodigy.net) wrote: Hello Ode, When I studied chaos theory in school I was sure this was something that I would never be able to actually apply. Now I am not so sure... -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
[I have played with little children who can do a great job of connecting the dots, and do so effortlessly.] -Quick, get them into politics, there may be hope for us all yet g. N. From: po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 15:33:05 -0800 Hello Ode, When I studied chaos theory in school I was sure this was something that I would never be able to actually apply. Now I am not so sure... I have played with little children who can do a great job of connecting the dots, and do so effortlessly. Perhaps we just need to be a little more creative in our approach. On the other hand, who needs dots anyway... :) Tom - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 5:02 AM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? However, the body is a dynamic chemical soup loaded with intelligent ion exchanges and [to coin a phrase] nano battery effects. Anything done in a test tube isn't going to tell the whole story. Given individual differences and temporary conditions, there may not even BE a whole story to tell. This is like a game of connect the dots with most of the dots missing. Ode At 04:59 PM 2/5/2010 -0600, you wrote: I was skirting this because it is a secondary issue. Silver ions are very active and will form compounds with the first substance it can. Silver ions do not survive the digestive system as free ions. They probably react with stomach acid to primarily form silver chloride. The silver may also react with other substances such as ammopnia to form other compounds. But they do not remain as silver ions. - Steve N -- From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 16:03:24 2010 Subject: Re: CS Hello Steve, OK, I am beginning to understand. I have looked at the Altman paper, but have not studied it. I will take another look at it, in detail. If I may present a somewhat weak argument... Doesn't it stand to reason that if you take more, you will not only ingest more ions, but also more particles. Perhaps the elimination through the kidney is just because there is more of both in the body... Back to the books, for now. Thanks. Tom - Original Message - From: mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.comNorton, Steve To: mailto:silver-list@eskimo.comsilver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: CS Tom, I am not suggesting daily use over use as needed. There was a time when I first used EIS I used it several times a day. It allowed me to get off a long term dependence on antibiotics. Now I take it when I think I need it. As to why I think that large doses of EIS do not significantly increase the effectiveness of EIS is a little more complex and somewhat controversial. It has to do with how EIS is processed in the body. The best clue to that comes from the Altman Silver Excretion Study. You can find the study at the Silver Medicine web site. Unfortunately the study pnly provides clues but not definitive answers. That is where the interpretation I mentioned in may previous post is important. IMO the important issue is whether the silver eliminated by the kidney is is in solution or particulate form. Silver in solution is far more active than silver in particulate form. There are varying opinions on that question. One of the more popular theories is that it is a soluble silver/ammonia compound is formed and since it contains ammonia it is removed by the kidney. However I have found that one of the most likely ammonia compounds, Ag(NH3)2, is eliminated by the liver and not the kidney. While I cannot say it with absolute certainly, my research indicates that all silver compounds in solution are removed by the liver. For various reasons it appaers that taking large ammounts of EIS predominately increases the amount of silver that excretes through the kidney which is therefore the much less effective particulate form. So I suggested two complementary methods that will increase the silver that is in solution while reducing the amount in particulate form. One is holding additional EIS in the mouth to allow transport of silver ions through the mucosal tissues without swallowing. The other is contained in the note regarding the use of Gatortade. I hope this helps. - Steve - Original Message - From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 11:03:13 2010 Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Hello Steve, I am totally new to EIS, so please be gentle with me... Your opinion seems to be that the best use EIS is to maintain a level
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Hello Steve, I am totally new to EIS, so please be gentle with me... Your opinion seems to be that the best use EIS is to maintain a level in the body through daily use. You also indicate that you don't think that a large dose of EIS is effective. As I ponder this I find myself finding it difficult to understand. It would seem that if your body was invaded by a bunch of bad guys they would overwhelm the good guys in your body, and an influx of a large good guy army would help win the war. I know this is over simplified, but isn't the idea to expose the bad guys to a concentration of the EIS? I am probably missing a lot, but any big picture concepts would be greatly appreciated. Tom - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: RE: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Sunny, On the face of it, this would seem to be an easy question to answer but it is not. If I was asked that by someone my question back to them would be how long and how often do you intend to use it and what ppm is your CS? And what type of CS are you using? If they are using silver nitrate or a mild silver protein (MSP), I would advise them to not use any. If they are using what we call EIS, made by running a current between 2 silver electrodes in distilled water or a colloidal silver (CS) consisting of small silver particles suspended in water, I would give the following answer. BTW, this is only my opinion and others may have different opinions. Much of my reasoning is based on my interpretation of the Altman Silver Excretion Study and my understanding of how silver is excreted from the body. There is no universal agreement in these areas, esp. in the interpretation of the Altman Silver Excretion Study. If you use it infrequently and for short periods you can take large quantities of either. But EIS is inherently more tolerant of excess silver. If it is short enough and infrequent enough it is almost a don't care. But there is no therapeutic value in taking large amounts in my opinion. If the person is going to take it daily for the rest of their life, I would recommend limiting it to 3.5 oz of 10 ppm EIS daily, or less. If the EIS is a higher or lower ppm, they should change the amount taken to account for the difference in ppm. For CS they should follow the manufactures recommendations but take no more than the amount you would use for EIS of the same ppm. For either EIS or CS, holding the silver in the mouth for 5 to 15 minutes before swallowing allows as much as 10% of the ionic silver to be absorbed through the mucosal tissues and those ions are the most effective. If someone wants to use more than 3.5 oz of 10 ppm EIS per day, I would recommend that the additional amounts only be held in the mouth for 10 to 15 minutes and then spit out the silver and not swallow it. [1] In my opinion, you should follow these recommendations for infrequent, short term use as well. I am not convinced that taking large amounts of CS or EIS even for a short periods is more effective than these lesser amounts, esp. when using EIS. There may possibly be some additional benefit to taking more CS, because the silver particles in CS may not be as effective as ionic silver, and perhaps that can be partially overcome by use of more CS. But again, the amount must always be within reason. The amounts I recommend for long term daily use equates to around 1 mg of silver per day and is the amount of ionic silver that the liver can process in a day. This ensures that there is no significant backlog of silver waiting to be eliminated from the body. EIS is somewhat unique in that excess amounts of EIS will also be eliminated through the kidney. To my knowledge, no other ionic silver has this property. This characteristic of EIS makes it very tolerant of taking too much EIS and makes it safer to take and not get argyria. But even EIS has limits. The one person I know of that got argyria from using EIS was taking daily amounts of EIS that were equivalent to over 10 times the amount I recommended above and even then it took 8 years for the argyria to appear. That person was taking amounts of silver that significantly exceeded the excretion capacity of both the liver and the kidney. [Note 1] Just for this list, I would also suggest that if one needs to use amounts of EIS in excess of 1 mg per day, that an effective method of doing so would be to take the first 1 mg as EIS and additional amounts of EIS should be taken with Gatorade or a citrus drink so that the additional ionic silver is silver citrate. Taking the Gatorade version would need to be offset in time from the EIS only to prevent conversion of the EIS only to silver citrate. This would increase the total ppm of ionic silver in the blood to higher levels than I believe can be achieved with EIS alone. - Steve N From: Sunwaterclear - Sunny [mailto:sunwatercl...@yahoo.com
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
How do you get contaminated collodial silver salts? Could I have gotten contaminated silver?? Maybe I am doing something wrong in making it. Perhaps I should start all over in learning just how to do all this. - Original Message - From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:03 AM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Hello Steve, I am totally new to EIS, so please be gentle with me... Your opinion seems to be that the best use EIS is to maintain a level in the body through daily use. You also indicate that you don't think that a large dose of EIS is effective. As I ponder this I find myself finding it difficult to understand. It would seem that if your body was invaded by a bunch of bad guys they would overwhelm the good guys in your body, and an influx of a large good guy army would help win the war. I know this is over simplified, but isn't the idea to expose the bad guys to a concentration of the EIS? I am probably missing a lot, but any big picture concepts would be greatly appreciated. Tom - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: RE: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Sunny, On the face of it, this would seem to be an easy question to answer but it is not. If I was asked that by someone my question back to them would be how long and how often do you intend to use it and what ppm is your CS? And what type of CS are you using? If they are using silver nitrate or a mild silver protein (MSP), I would advise them to not use any. If they are using what we call EIS, made by running a current between 2 silver electrodes in distilled water or a colloidal silver (CS) consisting of small silver particles suspended in water, I would give the following answer. BTW, this is only my opinion and others may have different opinions. Much of my reasoning is based on my interpretation of the Altman Silver Excretion Study and my understanding of how silver is excreted from the body. There is no universal agreement in these areas, esp. in the interpretation of the Altman Silver Excretion Study. If you use it infrequently and for short periods you can take large quantities of either. But EIS is inherently more tolerant of excess silver. If it is short enough and infrequent enough it is almost a don't care. But there is no therapeutic value in taking large amounts in my opinion. If the person is going to take it daily for the rest of their life, I would recommend limiting it to 3.5 oz of 10 ppm EIS daily, or less. If the EIS is a higher or lower ppm, they should change the amount taken to account for the difference in ppm. For CS they should follow the manufactures recommendations but take no more than the amount you would use for EIS of the same ppm. For either EIS or CS, holding the silver in the mouth for 5 to 15 minutes before swallowing allows as much as 10% of the ionic silver to be absorbed through the mucosal tissues and those ions are the most effective. If someone wants to use more than 3.5 oz of 10 ppm EIS per day, I would recommend that the additional amounts only be held in the mouth for 10 to 15 minutes and then spit out the silver and not swallow it. [1] In my opinion, you should follow these recommendations for infrequent, short term use as well. I am not convinced that taking large amounts of CS or EIS even for a short periods is more effective than these lesser amounts, esp. when using EIS. There may possibly be some additional benefit to taking more CS, because the silver particles in CS may not be as effective as ionic silver, and perhaps that can be partially overcome by use of more CS. But again, the amount must always be within reason. The amounts I recommend for long term daily use equates to around 1 mg of silver per day and is the amount of ionic silver that the liver can process in a day. This ensures that there is no significant backlog of silver waiting to be eliminated from the body. EIS is somewhat unique in that excess amounts of EIS will also be eliminated through the kidney. To my knowledge, no other ionic silver has this property. This characteristic of EIS makes it very tolerant of taking too much EIS and makes it safer to take and not get argyria. But even EIS has limits. The one person I know of that got argyria from using EIS was taking daily amounts of EIS that were equivalent to over 10 times the amount I recommended above and even then it took 8 years for the argyria to appear. That person was taking amounts of silver that significantly exceeded the excretion capacity of both the liver and the kidney. [Note 1] Just for this list, I would also suggest that if one needs to use amounts of EIS in excess of 1 mg per day, that an effective method of doing so would be to take the first 1 mg as EIS and additional
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
If you do something like put salt in the water before you make the EIS, which some people do to speed up the electrolysis process by increasing the conductivity of the water, then you end up with silver chloride. Or if you do what I used to do, and arc high voltage into the surface of the water, then you end up with silver nitrate. Either one of those, or any other salt of silver, will be more likely to cause argyria. And I suppose some kinds of contamination of the silver, water, glass, or whatever, could cause something else to be formed during electrolysis that would not be good for you. Dick - Original Message From: Leslie leslie1...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 1:19:33 PM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? How do you get contaminated collodial silver salts? Could I have gotten contaminated silver?? Maybe I am doing something wrong in making it. Perhaps I should start all over in learning just how to do all this. - Original Message - From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:03 AM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Hello Steve, I am totally new to EIS, so please be gentle with me... Your opinion seems to be that the best use EIS is to maintain a level in the body through daily use. You also indicate that you don't think that a large dose of EIS is effective. As I ponder this I find myself finding it difficult to understand. It would seem that if your body was invaded by a bunch of bad guys they would overwhelm the good guys in your body, and an influx of a large good guy army would help win the war. I know this is over simplified, but isn't the idea to expose the bad guys to a concentration of the EIS? I am probably missing a lot, but any big picture concepts would be greatly appreciated. Tom - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: RE: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Sunny, On the face of it, this would seem to be an easy question to answer but it is not. If I was asked that by someone my question back to them would be how long and how often do you intend to use it and what ppm is your CS? And what type of CS are you using? If they are using silver nitrate or a mild silver protein (MSP), I would advise them to not use any. If they are using what we call EIS, made by running a current between 2 silver electrodes in distilled water or a colloidal silver (CS) consisting of small silver particles suspended in water, I would give the following answer. BTW, this is only my opinion and others may have different opinions. Much of my reasoning is based on my interpretation of the Altman Silver Excretion Study and my understanding of how silver is excreted from the body. There is no universal agreement in these areas, esp. in the interpretation of the Altman Silver Excretion Study. If you use it infrequently and for short periods you can take large quantities of either. But EIS is inherently more tolerant of excess silver. If it is short enough and infrequent enough it is almost a don't care. But there is no therapeutic value in taking large amounts in my opinion. If the person is going to take it daily for the rest of their life, I would recommend limiting it to 3.5 oz of 10 ppm EIS daily, or less. If the EIS is a higher or lower ppm, they should change the amount taken to account for the difference in ppm. For CS they should follow the manufactures recommendations but take no more than the amount you would use for EIS of the same ppm. For either EIS or CS, holding the silver in the mouth for 5 to 15 minutes before swallowing allows as much as 10% of the ionic silver to be absorbed through the mucosal tissues and those ions are the most effective. If someone wants to use more than 3.5 oz of 10 ppm EIS per day, I would recommend that the additional amounts only be held in the mouth for 10 to 15 minutes and then spit out the silver and not swallow it. [1] In my opinion, you should follow these recommendations for infrequent, short term use as well. I am not convinced that taking large amounts of CS or EIS even for a short periods is more effective than these lesser amounts, esp. when using EIS. There may possibly be some additional benefit to taking more CS, because the silver particles in CS may not be as effective as ionic silver, and perhaps that can be partially overcome by use of more CS. But again, the amount must always be within reason. The amounts I recommend for long term daily use equates to around 1 mg of silver per day and is the amount of ionic silver that the liver can process in a day. This ensures that there is no significant backlog of silver waiting to be eliminated from the body. EIS is somewhat unique
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
I you use distilled water with no additives I wouldn't be concerned. - Steve N - Original Message - From: Leslie leslie1...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 12:19:33 2010 Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? How do you get contaminated collodial silver salts? Could I have gotten contaminated silver?? Maybe I am doing something wrong in making it. Perhaps I should start all over in learning just how to do all this.
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?I buy my distilled water from walmart or grocery store; wish I had my own distiller but other things more important right now. I do not add salt. I don't know the difference in EIS or CS but all I learned was to make CS and I test to 10 ppm. I don't mess with getting it to go faster. Leslie - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:52 PM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? I you use distilled water with no additives I wouldn't be concerned. - Steve N - Original Message - From: Leslie leslie1...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 12:19:33 2010 Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? How do you get contaminated collodial silver salts? Could I have gotten contaminated silver?? Maybe I am doing something wrong in making it. Perhaps I should start all over in learning just how to do all this.
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
I wouldn't worry about the CS you are making then. - Steve N From: leslie leslie1...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 13:13:49 2010 Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? I buy my distilled water from walmart or grocery store; wish I had my own distiller but other things more important right now. I do not add salt. I don't know the difference in EIS or CS but all I learned was to make CS and I test to 10 ppm. I don't mess with getting it to go faster. Leslie - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:52 PM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? I you use distilled water with no additives I wouldn't be concerned. - Steve N - Original Message - From: Leslie leslie1...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 12:19:33 2010 Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? How do you get contaminated collodial silver salts? Could I have gotten contaminated silver?? Maybe I am doing something wrong in making it. Perhaps I should start all over in learning just how to do all this.
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
That sounds fine. That's what I do as well. I don't think there is any difference between CS and EIS for purposes of this forum. EIS is Electrically Isolated Silver, which is a form of CS, with around 10-20% colloidal silver particles, and 80-90% ionic silver particles, which I understand are AgOH. CS is what most people call EIS. In fact the only place I have heard EIS is on this forum. The rest of the world calls it CS. EIS is more accurate, I believe, only because there are other ways to make CS, such as from nano-silver-powder, which apparently involves no electricity. So I suppose it's good to distinguish them by using the abbrev EIS. Dick From: leslie leslie1...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 2:13:49 PM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? I buy my distilled water from walmart or grocery store; wish I had my own distiller but other things more important right now. I do not add salt. I don't know the difference in EIS or CS but all I learned was to make CS and I test to 10 ppm. I don't mess with getting it to go faster. Leslie - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:52 PM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? I you use distilled water with no additives I wouldn't be concerned. - Steve N - Original Message - From: Leslie leslie1...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 12:19:33 2010 Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? How do you get contaminated collodial silver salts? Could I have gotten contaminated silver?? Maybe I am doing something wrong in making it. Perhaps I should start all over in learning just how to do all this.
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?thank you Steve and Dick. I feel a lot better about making it now. Leslie - Original Message - From: Richard Goodwin To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 1:28 PM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? That sounds fine. That's what I do as well. I don't think there is any difference between CS and EIS for purposes of this forum. EIS is Electrically Isolated Silver, which is a form of CS, with around 10-20% colloidal silver particles, and 80-90% ionic silver particles, which I understand are AgOH. CS is what most people call EIS. In fact the only place I have heard EIS is on this forum. The rest of the world calls it CS. EIS is more accurate, I believe, only because there are other ways to make CS, such as from nano-silver-powder, which apparently involves no electricity. So I suppose it's good to distinguish them by using the abbrev EIS. Dick -- From: leslie leslie1...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 2:13:49 PM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? I buy my distilled water from walmart or grocery store; wish I had my own distiller but other things more important right now. I do not add salt. I don't know the difference in EIS or CS but all I learned was to make CS and I test to 10 ppm. I don't mess with getting it to go faster. Leslie - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:52 PM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? I you use distilled water with no additives I wouldn't be concerned. - Steve N - Original Message - From: Leslie leslie1...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 12:19:33 2010 Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? How do you get contaminated collodial silver salts? Could I have gotten contaminated silver?? Maybe I am doing something wrong in making it. Perhaps I should start all over in learning just how to do all this.
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
What about silver citrate? There have been discussions on this list on how to make it. But I have read that silver citrate is also highly likely to cause argryia? Is that not true? sol At 12:28 PM 2/5/2010, you wrote: That sounds fine. That's what I do as well. I don't think there is any difference between CS and EIS for purposes of this forum. EIS is Electrically Isolated Silver, which is a form of CS, with around 10-20% colloidal silver particles, and 80-90% ionic silver particles, which I understand are AgOH. CS is what most people call EIS. In fact the only place I have heard EIS is on this forum. The rest of the world calls it CS. EIS is more accurate, I believe, only because there are other ways to make CS, such as from nano-silver-powder, which apparently involves no electricity. So I suppose it's good to distinguish them by using the abbrev EIS.
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
I was skirting this because it is a secondary issue. Silver ions are very active and will form compounds with the first substance it can. Silver ions do not survive the digestive system as free ions. They probably react with stomach acid to primarily form silver chloride. The silver may also react with other substances such as ammopnia to form other compounds. But they do not remain as silver ions. - Steve N From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 16:03:24 2010 Subject: Re: CS Hello Steve, OK, I am beginning to understand. I have looked at the Altman paper, but have not studied it. I will take another look at it, in detail. If I may present a somewhat weak argument... Doesn't it stand to reason that if you take more, you will not only ingest more ions, but also more particles. Perhaps the elimination through the kidney is just because there is more of both in the body... Back to the books, for now. Thanks. Tom - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: CS Tom, I am not suggesting daily use over use as needed. There was a time when I first used EIS I used it several times a day. It allowed me to get off a long term dependence on antibiotics. Now I take it when I think I need it. As to why I think that large doses of EIS do not significantly increase the effectiveness of EIS is a little more complex and somewhat controversial. It has to do with how EIS is processed in the body. The best clue to that comes from the Altman Silver Excretion Study. You can find the study at the Silver Medicine web site. Unfortunately the study pnly provides clues but not definitive answers. That is where the interpretation I mentioned in may previous post is important. IMO the important issue is whether the silver eliminated by the kidney is is in solution or particulate form. Silver in solution is far more active than silver in particulate form. There are varying opinions on that question. One of the more popular theories is that it is a soluble silver/ammonia compound is formed and since it contains ammonia it is removed by the kidney. However I have found that one of the most likely ammonia compounds, Ag(NH3)2, is eliminated by the liver and not the kidney. While I cannot say it with absolute certainly, my research indicates that all silver compounds in solution are removed by the liver. For various reasons it appaers that taking large ammounts of EIS predominately increases the amount of silver that excretes through the kidney which is therefore the much less effective particulate form. So I suggested two complementary methods that will increase the silver that is in solution while reducing the amount in particulate form. One is holding additional EIS in the mouth to allow transport of silver ions through the mucosal tissues without swallowing. The other is contained in the note regarding the use of Gatortade. I hope this helps. - Steve - Original Message - From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 11:03:13 2010 Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Hello Steve, I am totally new to EIS, so please be gentle with me... Your opinion seems to be that the best use EIS is to maintain a level in the body through daily use. You also indicate that you don't think that a large dose of EIS is effective. As I ponder this I find myself finding it difficult to understand. It would seem that if your body was invaded by a bunch of bad guys they would overwhelm the good guys in your body, and an influx of a large good guy army would help win the war. I know this is over simplified, but isn't the idea to expose the bad guys to a concentration of the EIS? I am probably missing a lot, but any big picture concepts would be greatly appreciated. Tom
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
There are a few known cases of argyria caused by a high ppm version of Water Qz. In the period of the argyria cases, Water Oz was telling customers that Water Oz could not cause argyria and could be used in unlimited amounts. Any silver supplement can cause argyria if taken in large enough amounts over a long enough time. That includes EIS. We have two list members that are proof of that. If you are refering to my previous comment that it would be better to not take high doses of EIS and instead take much smaller doses of EIS in conjunction of small doses of EIS in Gatorade - my approach, IMO, will provide increased silver effectiveness while greatly lowering the overall amount of silver taken and reducing the possibility of argyria for long term daily users. - Steve N From: sol sol...@sweetwaterhsa.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 16:25:30 2010 Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? What about silver citrate? There have been discussions on this list on how to make it. But I have read that silver citrate is also highly likely to cause argryia? Is that not true? sol At 12:28 PM 2/5/2010, you wrote: That sounds fine. That's what I do as well. I don't think there is any difference between CS and EIS for purposes of this forum. EIS is Electrically Isolated Silver, which is a form of CS, with around 10-20% colloidal silver particles, and 80-90% ionic silver particles, which I understand are AgOH. CS is what most people call EIS. In fact the only place I have heard EIS is on this forum. The rest of the world calls it CS. EIS is more accurate, I believe, only because there are other ways to make CS, such as from nano-silver-powder, which apparently involves no electricity. So I suppose it's good to distinguish them by using the abbrev EIS.
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Personally, I have no idea. Marshall says yes, silver citrate will be likely to cause argyria. And government publications say it is awesome as a disinfectant. Possible, or probably, both may be true. We really need someone to put silver through all the research and testing and get it approved by FDA so we can know what to make, how, how much to take, etc. OK, next email -- got an idea... Dick From: sol sol...@sweetwaterhsa.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 5:25:30 PM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? What about silver citrate? There have been discussions on this list on how to make it. But I have read that silver citrate is also highly likely to cause argryia? Is that not true? sol At 12:28 PM 2/5/2010, you wrote: That sounds fine. That's what I do as well. I don't think there is any difference between CS and EIS for purposes of this forum. EIS is Electrically Isolated Silver, which is a form of CS, with around 10-20% colloidal silver particles, and 80-90% ionic silver particles, which I understand are AgOH. CS is what most people call EIS. In fact the only place I have heard EIS is on this forum. The rest of the world calls it CS. EIS is more accurate, I believe, only because there are other ways to make CS, such as from nano-silver-powder, which apparently involves no electricity. So I suppose it's good to distinguish them by using the abbrev EIS.
RE: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Dick's snipped quote:
[10-20% colloidal silver particles, and 80-90% ionic silver particles]
-I wouldn't put money on that, that's not what my laboratory analysis showed in
some of my samples.
I'd prefer to see a number of people get some lab tests done of their home made
stuff rather than just put their faith in published material.
Who knows what conditions existed? construction of the EIS generator,
environment in which it was produced, ancillary equipment used {stirring,
heating blah blah etc etc}, time lapse between cessation of production and
actual laboratory testing etc. I know this always seems to fall on deaf ears
but published material means 'jack' to me unless as much additional information
as possible, or considered relevant, is included. But then praps this is just
*another* example of small pieces of information inadvertantly left out of
published material, who knows?
Dunno how many people are on this List, but if a percentage were to get some
home made solutions tested, praps they'd get a surprise too, and I'd sure like
to see those results.
One of my samples was 20 days old, and that 80-90% ionic figure is WAY off.
And if that's to be expected after such a time lapse before analysis was
done...then why is that not stated in published material so dumb*rses like me
know? Not being of scientific mind, I need things spelled out. But then I
have another sample which was only 2 days old, and is still radically different
to that ratio, so I have to ask...*when* were those published material results
tested?
I recall Marshall and myself discussing one of my samples a while ago and I got
the impression that my results were possibly, and I repeat, *POSSIBLY?* {don't
want to give any impression I'm arguing with Marshall} in doubt, nevertheless,
I have the report, and I know the appearance of the solutions tested, and if
that conflicts with accepted published material...then that's just too bad, I'm
going with my laboratory analysis and my visual observations. I take note of
everything I consider relevant with every solution I produce, that's why I
trust my lab results, for now I'm well satisfied.
I would suggest a number of people should get a number of home made samples
tested, of differing ppm or uS readings, and over various time frames *after*
cessation of production and give some feedback. There's no way in this world I
can accept published ion/particle ratio's should be accepted as the general
rule, a guide perhaps, some I believe would interpret it as meaning *that* is
what they should be getting when *that* could be far removed from the
actuallity. While it may be a generalization, home producers should not
consider it the rule, unless they have more information supplied to go on which
will enable them to make better determinations. Published material is based on
science, Joe and Jenny Bloggs can't base their home produced solutions on
science, but moreso on *artistic flair* is how I see it, in combination with
some science principals praps. And I assume there are a number of 'Joe and
Jenny Bloggs' on here, if not, then I'm *well* out of my depth and will fade
away.
I welcome anyone to shoot holes through all this in the interest of furthering
my knowledge, have to add though that in all probability I won't be in a
position to reply cos I'm no scientist and don't savvy the lingo, but I'd be
more than happy to READ any thoughts or considerations on it.
N.
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:28:49 -0800
From: dickgoodwin2...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
That sounds fine. That's what I do as well. I don't think there is any
difference between CS and EIS for purposes of this forum.
EIS is Electrically Isolated Silver, which is a form of CS, with around 10-20%
colloidal silver particles, and 80-90% ionic silver particles, which I
understand are AgOH.
_
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Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
I keep hearing that: once silver ions hit the salty stomach or blood, they become silver chloride... But, something was already x-chloride in both stomach and blood -- sodium chloride? So what does silver do? Push the sodium aside and take over the chloride ions? How does it do that? And what happens to the sodium ions? Or does an excess of positive ions of whatever kind go unmatched with the lesser number of negative ones? Help! Dick From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 5:59:46 PM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? I was skirting this because it is a secondary issue. Silver ions are very active and will form compounds with the first substance it can. Silver ions do not survive the digestive system as free ions. They probably react with stomach acid to primarily form silver chloride. The silver may also react with other substances such as ammopnia to form other compounds. But they do not remain as silver ions. - Steve N From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 16:03:24 2010 Subject: Re: CS Hello Steve, OK, I am beginning to understand. I have looked at the Altman paper, but have not studied it. I will take another look at it, in detail. If I may present a somewhat weak argument... Doesn't it stand to reason that if you take more, you will not only ingest more ions, but also more particles. Perhaps the elimination through the kidney is just because there is more of both in the body... Back to the books, for now. Thanks. Tom - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: CS Tom, I am not suggesting daily use over use as needed. There was a time when I first used EIS I used it several times a day. It allowed me to get off a long term dependence on antibiotics. Now I take it when I think I need it. As to why I think that large doses of EIS do not significantly increase the effectiveness of EIS is a little more complex and somewhat controversial. It has to do with how EIS is processed in the body. The best clue to that comes from the Altman Silver Excretion Study. You can find the study at the Silver Medicine web site. Unfortunately the study pnly provides clues but not definitive answers. That is where the interpretation I mentioned in may previous post is important. IMO the important issue is whether the silver eliminated by the kidney is is in solution or particulate form. Silver in solution is far more active than silver in particulate form. There are varying opinions on that question. One of the more popular theories is that it is a soluble silver/ammonia compound is formed and since it contains ammonia it is removed by the kidney. However I have found that one of the most likely ammonia compounds, Ag(NH3)2, is eliminated by the liver and not the kidney. While I cannot say it with absolute certainly, my research indicates that all silver compounds in solution are removed by the liver. For various reasons it appaers that taking large ammounts of EIS predominately increases the amount of silver that excretes through the kidney which is therefore the much less effective particulate form. So I suggested two complementary methods that will increase the silver that is in solution while reducing the amount in particulate form. One is holding additional EIS in the mouth to allow transport of silver ions through the mucosal tissues without swallowing. The other is contained in the note regarding the use of Gatortade. I hope this helps. - Steve - Original Message - From: poast po...@prodigy.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Fri Feb 05 11:03:13 2010 Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use? Hello Steve, I am totally new to EIS, so please be gentle with me... Your opinion seems to be that the best use EIS is to maintain a level in the body through daily use. You also indicate that you don't think that a large dose of EIS is effective. As I ponder this I find myself finding it difficult to understand. It would seem that if your body was invaded by a bunch of bad guys they would overwhelm the good guys in your body, and an influx of a large good guy army would help win the war. I know this is over simplified, but isn't the idea to expose the bad guys to a concentration of the EIS? I am probably missing a lot, but any big picture concepts would be greatly appreciated. Tom
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Yes, I was quoting published sources as to the likely concentration of EIS,
made as recommended on this email list.
So ... what are your test figures, and how did you make yours? I wish you had
supplied that information below.
Dick
From: Neville Munn one.red...@hotmail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 7:41:34 PM
Subject: RE: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Dick's snipped quote:
[10-20% colloidal silver particles, and 80-90% ionic silver particles]
-I wouldn't put money on that, that's not what my laboratory analysis showed in
some of my samples.
I'd prefer to see a number of people get some lab tests done of their home made
stuff rather than just put their faith in published material.
Who knows what conditions existed? construction of the EIS generator,
environment in which it was produced, ancillary equipment used {stirring,
heating blah blah etc etc}, time lapse between cessation of production and
actual laboratory testing etc. I know this always seems to fall on deaf ears
but published material means 'jack' to me unless as much additional information
as possible, or considered relevant, is included. But then praps this is just
*another* example of small pieces of information inadvertantly left out of
published material, who knows?
Dunno how many people are on this List, but if a percentage were to get some
home made solutions tested, praps they'd get a surprise too, and I'd sure like
to see those results.
One of my samples was 20 days old, and that 80-90% ionic figure is WAY off.
And if that's to be expected after such a time lapse before analysis was
done...then why is that not stated in published material so dumb*rses like me
know? Not being of scientific mind, I need things spelled out. But then I
have another sample which was only 2 days old, and is still radically different
to that ratio, so I have to ask...*when* were those published material results
tested?
I recall Marshall and myself discussing one of my samples a while ago and I got
the impression that my results were possibly, and I repeat, *POSSIBLY?* {don't
want to give any impression I'm arguing with Marshall} in doubt, nevertheless,
I have the report, and I know the appearance of the solutions tested, and if
that conflicts with accepted published material...then that's just too bad, I'm
going with my laboratory analysis and my visual observations. I take note of
everything I consider relevant with every solution I produce, that's why I
trust my lab results, for now I'm well satisfied.
I would suggest a number of people should get a number of home made samples
tested, of differing ppm or uS readings, and over various time frames *after*
cessation of production and give some feedback. There's no way in this world I
can accept published ion/particle ratio's should be accepted as the general
rule, a guide perhaps, some I believe would interpret it as meaning *that* is
what they should be getting when *that* could be far removed from the
actuallity. While it may be a generalization, home producers should not
consider it the rule, unless they have more information supplied to go on which
will enable them to make better determinations. Published material is based on
science, Joe and Jenny Bloggs can't base their home produced solutions on
science, but moreso on *artistic flair* is how I see it, in combination with
some science principals praps. And I assume there are a number of 'Joe and
Jenny Bloggs' on here, if not, then I'm *well* out
of my depth and will fade away.
I welcome anyone to shoot holes through all this in the interest of furthering
my knowledge, have to add though that in all probability I won't be in a
position to reply cos I'm no scientist and don't savvy the lingo, but I'd be
more than happy to READ any thoughts or considerations on it.
N.
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:28:49 -0800
From: dickgoodwin2...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
That sounds fine. That's what I do as well. I don't think there is any
difference between CS and EIS for purposes of this forum.
EIS is Electrically Isolated Silver, which is a form of CS, with around 10-20%
colloidal silver particles, and 80-90% ionic silver particles, which I
understand are AgOH.
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RE: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
No worries Dick, you tell me WHAT figures you want and if I've got it I'll let
you know, if I haven't, I'll let you know that as well.
How I made it?...One sample and method: 240vAC mains power in to 24vDC out, 4
electrode setup, magnetic stirrer used, 500ml Distilled Water, 2 day time lapse
til analysis {sent same day and got results 2 days later so can't say if tested
on SAME day?...beyond my control}, clear on completion of production and still
clear on return of remainder of sample.
BTW, I'm not disputing anything, or entering into any debate, I just have a
concern with some available published material regarding ion/particle ratio is
all. I just believe more information should be included for the man/woman in
the street to make better determinations regarding ion/particle ratio's,
nothing more, nothing less.
N.
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 16:48:40 -0800
From: dickgoodwin2...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Yes, I was quoting published sources as to the likely concentration of EIS,
made as recommended on this email list.
So ... what are your test figures, and how did you make yours? I wish you had
supplied that information below.
Dick
From: Neville Munn one.red...@hotmail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 7:41:34 PM
Subject: RE: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Dick's snipped quote:
[10-20% colloidal silver particles, and 80-90% ionic silver particles]
-I wouldn't put money on that, that's not what my laboratory analysis showed in
some of my samples.
I'd prefer to see a number of people get some lab tests done of their home made
stuff rather than just put their faith in published material.
Who knows what conditions existed? construction of the EIS generator,
environment in which it was produced, ancillary equipment used {stirring,
heating blah blah etc etc}, time lapse between cessation of production and
actual laboratory testing etc. I know this always seems to fall on deaf ears
but published material means 'jack' to me unless as much additional information
as possible, or considered relevant, is included. But then praps this is just
*another* example of small pieces of information inadvertantly left out of
published material, who knows?
Dunno how many people are on this List, but if a percentage were to get some
home made solutions tested, praps they'd get a surprise too, and I'd sure like
to see those results.
One of my samples was 20 days old, and that 80-90% ionic figure is WAY off.
And if that's to be expected after such a time lapse before analysis was
done...then why is that not stated in published material so dumb*rses like me
know? Not being of scientific mind, I need things spelled out. But then I
have another sample which was only 2 days old, and is still radically different
to that ratio, so I have to ask...*when* were those published material results
tested?
I recall Marshall and myself discussing one of my samples a while ago and I got
the impression that my results were possibly, and I repeat, *POSSIBLY?* {don't
want to give any impression I'm arguing with Marshall} in doubt, nevertheless,
I have the report, and I know the appearance of the solutions tested, and if
that conflicts with accepted published material...then that's just too bad, I'm
going with my laboratory analysis and my visual observations. I take note of
everything I consider relevant with every solution I produce, that's why I
trust my lab results, for now I'm well satisfied.
I would suggest a number of people should get a number of home made samples
tested, of differing ppm or uS readings, and over various time frames *after*
cessation of production and give some feedback. There's no way in this world I
can accept published ion/particle ratio's should be accepted as the general
rule, a guide perhaps, some I believe would interpret it as meaning *that* is
what they should be getting when *that* could be far removed from the
actuallity. While it may be a generalization, home producers should not
consider it the rule, unless they have more information supplied to go on which
will enable them to make better determinations. Published material is based on
science, Joe and Jenny Bloggs can't base their home produced solutions on
science, but moreso on *artistic flair* is how I see it, in combination with
some science principals praps. And I assume there are a number of 'Joe and
Jenny Bloggs' on here, if not, then I'm *well* out of my depth and will fade
away.
I welcome anyone to shoot holes through all this in the interest of furthering
my knowledge, have to add though that in all probability I won't be in a
position to reply cos I'm no scientist and don't savvy the lingo, but I'd be
more than happy to READ any thoughts or considerations on it.
N.
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:28:49 -0800
From: dickgoodwin2...@yahoo.com
RE: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
At 06:44 PM 2/5/2010, you wrote: I just have a concern with some available published material regarding ion/particle ratio is all. I just believe more information should be included for the man/woman in the street to make better determinations regarding ion/particle ratio's, nothing more, nothing less. I always thought that if my finished EIS was about 12-15 uS and had very faint Tyndall with no large sparklies, then it probably fit into the 85-90 % ionic, 10-15% very small particles range. sol
RE: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Well this is it, that's what I thought too after reading bucket loads of
information available in the public domain, but who knows? My results tell me
something different in some of my solutions. I take nothing for granted
anymore, and trust few, I may get slapped down more often than not but so long
as I learn something each time I get back up that's all that counts.
I'm no scientist but the criteria I use now for determining quality product is
mostly visual observation {I use meters also of course}...no settlement or
anomalies after time in storage means *everything* is fine, if you get my
drift. Colour doesn't concern or phase me either, it's the *clarity* of that
solution, clear OR coloured, and any observable settlement and/or undesirable
anomalies I look for. Particle *size* doesn't phase me anymore now either
{using my criteria, laboratory results, and literature I've read}. Without
suitable laboratory testing equipment in our kitchens, is there a better way?
Now at least I have a guide with my laboratory results, and they support what I
have 'considered?' for quite some time now, and that is...If more laypeople
such as myself were able to get some laboratory testing done of their home made
or back yard stuff they may be surprised with the results, I know *I* was. In
other words...I can now relax and be more confident in what I do, what I make,
and how I make it...and I'm confident with the bio-availability of it.
Praps I haven't gotten my hands muddied and bloodied as Wayne {no longer with
us} once remarked to me, and I may not be scientifically inclined, but in 8
years I've waded through enough information to satisfy myself of certain things
EIS related.
Who knows? You may find your solutions differ from popular opinion or published
material also? Most laypeople probly make assumptions from available material,
as I had done, but *IF* my lab results are accurate, then those assumptions of
ion/particle ratios could be way off, and they don't know it. I'd like to read
MORE of laypeoples laboratory analysis results, and LESS of manufacturers or
scientific researchers published analysis reports.
N.
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:51:05 -0700
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
From: sol...@sweetwaterhsa.com
Subject: RE: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
At 06:44 PM 2/5/2010, you wrote:
I just have a concern with some available published material regarding
ion/particle ratio is all. I just believe more information should be included
for the man/woman in the street to make better determinations regarding
ion/particle ratio's, nothing more, nothing less.
I always thought that if my finished EIS was about 12-15 uS and had very faint
Tyndall with no large sparklies, then it probably fit into the 85-90 % ionic,
10-15% very small particles range.
sol
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Re: CSmoon on fingernails? Agyria
The question is too simplistic to answer. It depends on the individual and for most people [nearly all people] even fairly extreme amounts don't turn them blue. Depending on the info source, the minimum amount of silver retained in the body to go Smurf is between 2 and 4 grams..but MOST ALL people don't **retain** silver very well at all. So, there have been a few blue folx pop up, but many many thousands more that did the same thing or even worse that aren't in that club. As a wild guess, several hundred thousand people have been making CS with NO idea how strong it is for the past thirty years and being dirt cheap with a Mo-is-bettah mind set, using it like there's no limits, but maybe 5 cases of Smurfdom? [10 on the high side? ] Compared to say, problems with Aspirin ? [including that somewhat permanent skin blueing condition called death, whereas *none* have died of over using silver] Any degree of caution and thoughtfulness should be adequate. Ode At 10:07 AM 2/3/2010 -0800, you wrote: Hey, I posted on facebook about CS and someone mentioned the 'blue' thing. I have so many postings here, can't find it.. can anyone quickly answer this... HOW MUCH is TOO MUCH? thanks sunny x -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSmoon on fingernails? -- how much do you use?
Sunny, On the face of it, this would seem to be an easy question to answer but it is not. If I was asked that by someone my question back to them would be how long and how often do you intend to use it and what ppm is your CS? And what type of CS are you using? If they are using silver nitrate or a mild silver protein (MSP), I would advise them to not use any. If they are using what we call EIS, made by running a current between 2 silver electrodes in distilled water or a colloidal silver (CS) consisting of small silver particles suspended in water, I would give the following answer. BTW, this is only my opinion and others may have different opinions. Much of my reasoning is based on my interpretation of the Altman Silver Excretion Study and my understanding of how silver is excreted from the body. There is no universal agreement in these areas, esp. in the interpretation of the Altman Silver Excretion Study. If you use it infrequently and for short periods you can take large quantities of either. But EIS is inherently more tolerant of excess silver. If it is short enough and infrequent enough it is almost a don't care. But there is no therapeutic value in taking large amounts in my opinion. If the person is going to take it daily for the rest of their life, I would recommend limiting it to 3.5 oz of 10 ppm EIS daily, or less. If the EIS is a higher or lower ppm, they should change the amount taken to account for the difference in ppm. For CS they should follow the manufactures recommendations but take no more than the amount you would use for EIS of the same ppm. For either EIS or CS, holding the silver in the mouth for 5 to 15 minutes before swallowing allows as much as 10% of the ionic silver to be absorbed through the mucosal tissues and those ions are the most effective. If someone wants to use more than 3.5 oz of 10 ppm EIS per day, I would recommend that the additional amounts only be held in the mouth for 10 to 15 minutes and then spit out the silver and not swallow it. [1] In my opinion, you should follow these recommendations for infrequent, short term use as well. I am not convinced that taking large amounts of CS or EIS even for a short periods is more effective than these lesser amounts, esp. when using EIS. There may possibly be some additional benefit to taking more CS, because the silver particles in CS may not be as effective as ionic silver, and perhaps that can be partially overcome by use of more CS. But again, the amount must always be within reason. The amounts I recommend for long term daily use equates to around 1 mg of silver per day and is the amount of ionic silver that the liver can process in a day. This ensures that there is no significant backlog of silver waiting to be eliminated from the body. EIS is somewhat unique in that excess amounts of EIS will also be eliminated through the kidney. To my knowledge, no other ionic silver has this property. This characteristic of EIS makes it very tolerant of taking too much EIS and makes it safer to take and not get argyria. But even EIS has limits. The one person I know of that got argyria from using EIS was taking daily amounts of EIS that were equivalent to over 10 times the amount I recommended above and even then it took 8 years for the argyria to appear. That person was taking amounts of silver that significantly exceeded the excretion capacity of both the liver and the kidney. [Note 1] Just for this list, I would also suggest that if one needs to use amounts of EIS in excess of 1 mg per day, that an effective method of doing so would be to take the first 1 mg as EIS and additional amounts of EIS should be taken with Gatorade or a citrus drink so that the additional ionic silver is silver citrate. Taking the Gatorade version would need to be offset in time from the EIS only to prevent conversion of the EIS only to silver citrate. This would increase the total ppm of ionic silver in the blood to higher levels than I believe can be achieved with EIS alone. - Steve N From: Sunwaterclear - Sunny [mailto:sunwatercl...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:08 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? Agyria Hey, I posted on facebook about CS and someone mentioned the 'blue' thing. I have so many postings here, can't find it.. can anyone quickly answer this... HOW MUCH is TOO MUCH? thanks sunny x From: John E. Stevens jonellis.steven...@gmail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 1:12:26 PM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? If it's ablue moon, too much colloidal silver water or contaminated colloidal silver salts may be being ingested. John On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Kathy Tankersley tanke...@iland.net wrote: Someone on this list recently commented on how his fingernails got a 'moon' on them when he increased his CS consumption. Can someone on this list tell me what this looks like? Thanks
Re: CSmoon on fingernails? Agyria
Hey, I posted on facebook about CS and someone mentioned the 'blue' thing. I have so many postings here, can't find it.. can anyone quickly answer this... HOW MUCH is TOO MUCH? thanks sunny x A peek into our world.. Feed the Future - Forest gardens - Sustainable Lifetime Food for All Feed the Future- The blog In depth articles - forest gardens, natural wellness, human consciousness WHAT has to happen for us to evolve and emerge? Follow us on Twitter - www.twitter.com/return2earth Wellness v pharma, free energy v oil, own grown v processed food, community v nuclear, natural building v concrete, consciousness v asleep Info on what's going on and alternative and natural technologies for a simpler life Tune in and friend us on Facebook - Pierre Soleil return to earth From: John E. Stevens jonellis.steven...@gmail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 1:12:26 PM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? If it's ablue moon, too much colloidal silver water or contaminated colloidal silver salts may be being ingested. John On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Kathy Tankersley tanke...@iland.net wrote: Someone on this list recently commented on how his fingernails got a 'moon' on them when he increased his CS consumption. Can someone on this list tell me what this looks like? Thanks Kathy
RE: CSmoon on fingernails? Agyria
If you're referring to EIS as I recognise it...who *does* know?
If you're referring to 'CS', which could be *anything*, then it's anyone's
guess.
EIS is so termed so as to distinguish this product from all those 'CS
concoctions' produced with wilful disobeyance {or ignorance}of accepted
procedures and protocols for the production thereof, and consequently passed
off or are masqueraded as the real deal.
Tell em you only know about EIS and 'CS' is the illegitimate rellie of EIS, and
forget about 'blue', it won't happen, then tell em to read more intelligent
literature or material, not that same boring, outdated and regurgitated
*misinformation* they find on the net, and stand tall and look em straight in
the eye when saying it...{if only you could}.
N.
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:07:49 -0800
From: sunwatercl...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? Agyria
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Hey, I posted on facebook about CS and someone mentioned the 'blue' thing. I
have so many postings here, can't find it.. can anyone quickly answer this...
HOW MUCH is TOO MUCH?
thanks
sunny x
A peek into our world..
Feed the Future - Forest gardens - Sustainable Lifetime Food for All
Feed the Future- The blog In depth articles - forest gardens, natural wellness,
human consciousness WHAT has to happen for us to evolve and emerge?
Follow us on Twitter - www.twitter.com/return2earth
Wellness v pharma, free energy v oil, own grown v processed food, community v
nuclear, natural building v concrete, consciousness v asleep Info on what's
going on and alternative and natural technologies for a simpler life
Tune in and friend us on Facebook - Pierre Soleil return to earth
From: John E. Stevens jonellis.steven...@gmail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 1:12:26 PM
Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails?
If it's ablue moon, too much colloidal silver water or contaminated colloidal
silver salts may be being ingested.
John
On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Kathy Tankersley tanke...@iland.net wrote:
Someone on this list recently commented on how his fingernails got a 'moon' on
them when he increased his CS consumption. Can someone on this list tell me
what this looks like? Thanks Kathy
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RE: CSmoon on fingernails?
Blue moons are a sign of several things, not just too much silver. Find a nail technician website and do some research. _ From: john freese [mailto:jrf...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 3:49 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? It was me you are asking about. The moons are a light slate blue color. No silver for about 6 weeks. I have been taking serrapeptase, selenium and alpha lipoic acid that someone on the list suggested but have noticed no difference in the color of the moons. Just to let the list know. Within 1 week after I stopped taking CS. I caught a cold. Then a cold sore that I have not seen in 3 years reared its ugly head, and now I'm fighting an ear infection. CS works. 3 years, no colds, no infections. John. _ From: Kathy Tankersley tanke...@iland.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 11:03:39 AM Subject: CSmoon on fingernails? Someone on this list recently commented on how his fingernails got a 'moon' on them when he increased his CS consumption. Can someone on this list tell me what this looks like? Thanks Kathy No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.132/2610 - Release Date: 01/09/10 19:35:00
Re: CSmoon on fingernails?
At 01:04 PM 1/11/2010, you wrote: I wish I knew, if I did, I wouldn't still have them. My wife took 2 months of chelation and hers seemed to have lightened, but did not go away in that time. Same here. I still have them, though they are lighter than they used to be. I don't drink CS on a regular basis anymore, nor do I often drink a lot at a time (I drank between a pint and a quart daily for over two years, and while I think that did what I wanted it to, I did get blue moons from it, but I have NO other blue or grey anywhere else but in the moons of the nails). I do take selenium, vit E and zinc, but notice no improvement from them as regards the moons. sol -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSmoon on fingernails?
Kathy Tankersley wrote: Someone on this list recently commented on how his fingernails got a 'moon' on them when he increased his CS consumption. Can someone on this list tell me what this looks like? Thanks Kathy http://silver-lightning.com/fingernails.JPG Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSmoon on fingernails?
I have a question; how to you get rid of the blue moons? - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? Kathy Tankersley wrote: Someone on this list recently commented on how his fingernails got a 'moon' on them when he increased his CS consumption. Can someone on this list tell me what this looks like? Thanks Kathy http://silver-lightning.com/fingernails.JPG Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSmoon on fingernails?
I wish I knew, if I did, I wouldn't still have them. My wife took 2 months of chelation and hers seemed to have lightened, but did not go away in that time. Marshall Leslie wrote: I have a question; how to you get rid of the blue moons? - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? Kathy Tankersley wrote: Someone on this list recently commented on how his fingernails got a 'moon' on them when he increased his CS consumption. Can someone on this list tell me what this looks like? Thanks Kathy http://silver-lightning.com/fingernails.JPG Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSmoon on fingernails?
Someone on this list recently commented on how his fingernails got a 'moon' on them when he increased his CS consumption. Can someone on this list tell me what this looks like? Thanks Kathy
Re: CSmoon on fingernails?
I have a moon on mine but haven't been taking CS I thought everyone did! It is where your cuticle meets the nail and mine is in the center under the nail bed Go here to see http://www.ck12.org/ck12/images?id=113356 Donna ACS Someone on this list recently commented on how his fingernails got a 'moon' on them when he increased his CS consumption. Can someone on this list tell me what this looks like? Thanks Kathy
Re: CSmoon on fingernails?
If it's ablue moon, too much colloidal silver water or contaminated colloidal silver salts may be being ingested. John On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Kathy Tankersley tanke...@iland.netwrote: Someone on this list recently commented on how his fingernails got a 'moon' on them when he increased his CS consumption. Can someone on this list tell me what this looks like? Thanks Kathy
Re: CSmoon on fingernails?
It was me you are asking about. The moons are a light slate blue color. No silver for about 6 weeks. I have been taking serrapeptase, selenium and alpha lipoic acid that someone on the list suggested but have noticed no difference in the color of the moons. Just to let the list know. Within 1 week after I stopped taking CS. I caught a cold. Then a cold sore that I have not seen in 3 years reared its ugly head, and now I’m fighting an ear infection. CS works. 3 years, no colds, no infections. John. From: Kathy Tankersley tanke...@iland.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 11:03:39 AM Subject: CSmoon on fingernails? Someone on this list recently commented on how his fingernails got a 'moon' on them when he increased his CS consumption. Can someone on this list tell me what this looks like? Thanks Kathy
Re: CSmoon on fingernails?
John, did you mention your source of your cs? It could be that your cs is not electrically isolated silver or may have some sort of impurity that you did not anticipate. Additionally, there are other causes of blue or grey nailbeds. Wrongdiagnosis.com lists 12 different medical conditions that could cause this. 'Silver Poisoning' is one of the 12. I would recommend having it checked out to see if one of the other 11 conditions may be present. Chloroquine COPD - blue nails Fracture Insufficient oxygen Melanoma Methahemoglobinemia - blue nails Pseudomonas aeruginosa See causes of cyanosis Silver poisoning Subungual hematoma Trauma Wilson's diseaseKissing a Smurf under a Blue Moon Please ignore the last 'cause.' As many have noticed today, I am having a great deal of trouble today controlling my hands and they are typing the most absurd stuff. Steve G. --- On Sat, 1/9/10, john freese jrf...@yahoo.com wrote: From: john freese jrf...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: CSmoon on fingernails? To: silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 5:48 PM It was me you are asking about. The moons are a light slate blue color. No silver for about 6 weeks. I have been taking serrapeptase, selenium and alpha lipoic acid that someone on the list suggested but have noticed no difference in the color of the moons. Just to let the list know. Within 1 week after I stopped taking CS. I caught a cold. Then a cold sore that I have not seen in 3 years reared its ugly head, and now I’m fighting an ear infection. CS works. 3 years, no colds, no infections. John. From: Kathy Tankersley tanke...@iland.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 11:03:39 AM Subject: CSmoon on fingernails? Someone on this list recently commented on how his fingernails got a 'moon' on them when he increased his CS consumption. Can someone on this list tell me what this looks like? Thanks Kathy
