Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[Marshall]

It is typically 85 to 95%.

Marshall

On 11/4/2012 1:05 PM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:

I thought our EIS *was* mostly ionic?  dee



*From: *David O'Neil 
*Reply-To: *"silver-list@eskimo.com" 
*Date: *Thu, 5 Jan 2012 20:01:31 +1030
*To: *"silver-list@eskimo.com" 
*Subject: *Re: CS>The Silvercell process?
*Resent-From: *"silver-list@eskimo.com" 
*Resent-Date: *Sun, 4 Nov 2012 04:49:03 -0800

So, would you agree that Mikes claim that its extremely difficult to 
make highly ionic CS is somewhat exagerated?


David



-


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5373 - Release Date: 11/04/12

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[Marshall]

The theoretical limit for ionic silver, IE silver oxide and silver 
hydroxide is limited by its solubility to around 26 ppm.  I suspect when 
you brew over extended periods of time you have to take carbon dioxide 
absorption into account, so essentially any ionic silver content above 
26 ppm is going to be silver carbonate.


Marshall

On 11/4/2012 9:04 AM, Asif Nathekar wrote:
It's not difficult to make more than adequate highly ionic CS, by 
brewing using a very low current around 0.1 ma per sq inch. Extremely 
pure water and good clean apparatus.
However I believe Mike is after the holy grail of perfection which in 
unnecessary  for certainly even the most ambitious uses of CS.
I can get stable 30-40 us every time using extremely low currents and 
lots of time. And anyone who has been the recipient of the CS has been 
generally a happy bunny!.
If I brew faster there is alway a gamble that after 15-20 us the brew 
can start looking slightly yellow or gold.

Peace to all
Asif




On 5 Jan 2012, at 09:31, "David O'Neil" <mailto:da...@alchemysa.com.au>> wrote:


So, would you agree that Mikes claim that its extremely difficult to 
make highly ionic CS is somewhat exagerated?

David

- Original Message -
*From:* David AuBuchon <mailto:aubuchon.da...@gmail.com>
*To:* silver-list@eskimo.com <mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, January 05, 2012 7:25 AM
    *Subject:* Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

I stopped brewing at about a stable 50 uS.  Slight yellow tinge. 
It is possible it could go higher if I just kept sticking the

generator in it.  But I got bored.  This concentration brew also
does not appear to make me herx or anything.




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5373 - Release Date: 11/04/12

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[asif nathekar]

Hi Neville,

I have actually tried this and found nothing I can report anecdotally, however 
I found that if your silver source is around 99.8 and above, which I find 
American eagle coins usually are (as tested by XRF machine) then other factors 
play a much more significant role, such as water, purity of brewing vessel and 
cleaning materials (some detergents leave a residue to help sparkle, shine or 
protection) or bleach from the tissues that may have been used to dry.
I use a 99.99 silver for most of my brewing now.
So I use cheap as possible washing up liquid( to ensure I avoid the cleaning 
‘technology’ or in our case ‘residue’) to clean my borosilicate beaker (its 
borosilicate so that less undesirable chemicals leach from the glass such as 
those used in cheap glass and plastics) and rinse a couple of times with tap 
water then a rinse with single distilled water.

Then commence with brewing with double distilled water. Tried single distil and 
it has never worked for me. although in the future I will be trying RO water 
and single distill.

cheers Neville keep up the straight talk!...


From: Neville Munn 
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 11:17 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Subject: RE: CS>The Silvercell process?

I'd be interested in knowing the difference in end product between the use of 
99.98% and 99.99% pure fine silver electrodes? 
Does that 0.2% difference in silver produce a different end result measurement 
if using same electrode setup, same water and water temperature, same 
equipment, same brewing time,  same testing methods etc etc. 

I follow your thinking Asif, if it ain't broke then don't mess with it .

All it has to do is *work*, and that's 'perfect' enough for me without chasing 
some impossible dream to achieve..*What* exactly?

N.



----------------
Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?
From: asifnathe...@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 14:04:55 +
To: silver-list@eskimo.com


It's not difficult to make more than adequate highly ionic CS, by brewing using 
a very low current around 0.1 ma per sq inch. Extremely pure water and good 
clean apparatus.
However I believe Mike is after the holy grail of perfection which in 
unnecessary  for certainly even the most ambitious uses of CS.
I can get stable 30-40 us every time using extremely low currents and lots of 
time. And anyone who has been the recipient of the CS has been generally a 
happy bunny!. 
If I brew faster there is alway a gamble that after 15-20 us the brew can start 
looking slightly yellow or gold. 
Peace to all
Asif




On 5 Jan 2012, at 09:31, "David O'Neil"  wrote:


  So, would you agree that Mikes claim that its extremely difficult to make 
highly ionic CS is somewhat exagerated?

  David


- Original Message - 
From: David AuBuchon 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
    Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

I stopped brewing at about a stable 50 uS.  Slight yellow tinge.  It is 
possible it could go higher if I just kept sticking the generator in it.  But I 
got bored.  This concentration brew also does not appear to make me herx or 
anything.  

RE: CS>The Silvercell process?

[Neville Munn]

I'd be interested in knowing the difference in end product between the use of 
99.98% and 99.99% pure fine silver electrodes?Does that 0.2% difference in 
silver produce a different end result measurement if using same electrode 
setup, same water and water temperature, same equipment, same brewing time,  
same testing methods etc etc.
I follow your thinking Asif, if it ain't broke then don't mess with it .
All it has to do is *work*, and that's 'perfect' enough for me without chasing 
some impossible dream to achieve..*What* exactly?
N.

Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?
From: asifnathe...@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 14:04:55 +
To: silver-list@eskimo.com

It's not difficult to make more than adequate highly ionic CS, by brewing using 
a very low current around 0.1 ma per sq inch. Extremely pure water and good 
clean apparatus.However I believe Mike is after the holy grail of perfection 
which in unnecessary  for certainly even the most ambitious uses of CS.I can 
get stable 30-40 us every time using extremely low currents and lots of time. 
And anyone who has been the recipient of the CS has been generally a happy 
bunny!. If I brew faster there is alway a gamble that after 15-20 us the brew 
can start looking slightly yellow or gold. Peace to allAsif



On 5 Jan 2012, at 09:31, "David O'Neil"  wrote:









So, would you agree that Mikes claim that its 
extremely difficult to make highly ionic CS is somewhat exagerated?
 
David
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David 
  AuBuchon 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 7:25 
  AM
  Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell 
  process?
  
I stopped brewing at about a stable 50 uS.  Slight yellow 
  tinge.  It is possible it could go higher if I just kept sticking the 
  generator in it.  But I got bored.  This concentration brew also 
  does not appear to make me herx or anything.  


  

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

I thought our EIS was mostly ionic?  dee



From: David O'Neil 
Reply-To: "silver-list@eskimo.com" 
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 20:01:31 +1030
To: "silver-list@eskimo.com" 
Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?
Resent-From: "silver-list@eskimo.com" 
Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 04:49:03 -0800

So, would you agree that Mikes claim that its extremely difficult to make
highly ionic CS is somewhat exagerated?
 
David
 
 
>  
-

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[Asif Nathekar]

It's not difficult to make more than adequate highly ionic CS, by brewing using 
a very low current around 0.1 ma per sq inch. Extremely pure water and good 
clean apparatus.
However I believe Mike is after the holy grail of perfection which in 
unnecessary  for certainly even the most ambitious uses of CS.
I can get stable 30-40 us every time using extremely low currents and lots of 
time. And anyone who has been the recipient of the CS has been generally a 
happy bunny!. 
If I brew faster there is alway a gamble that after 15-20 us the brew can start 
looking slightly yellow or gold. 
Peace to all
Asif




On 5 Jan 2012, at 09:31, "David O'Neil"  wrote:

> So, would you agree that Mikes claim that its extremely difficult to make 
> highly ionic CS is somewhat exagerated?
>  
> David
>  
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: David AuBuchon
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 7:25 AM
> Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?
> 
> I stopped brewing at about a stable 50 uS.  Slight yellow tinge.  It is 
> possible it could go higher if I just kept sticking the generator in it.  But 
> I got bored.  This concentration brew also does not appear to make me herx or 
> anything.  

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[David O'Neil]

So, would you agree that Mikes claim that its extremely difficult to make 
highly ionic CS is somewhat exagerated?

David


  - Original Message - 
  From: David AuBuchon 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 7:25 AM
  Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?


  I stopped brewing at about a stable 50 uS.  Slight yellow tinge.  It is 
possible it could go higher if I just kept sticking the generator in it.  But I 
got bored.  This concentration brew also does not appear to make me herx or 
anything.  

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[Trem]

Hi David,

Here's an email from me to the list on 9/20/2011.  It mentions vigorous 
stirring, nernst and spacing.  I haven't established a high.  Just stopped 
around 50.

Trem




  Trem  wrote:

  >Hello Mike,

  > I knew you'd have criticisms. I use 2 mils of current because I've
  > determined empirically that 1-2 mils per square inch is  just fine
  > with rapid water movement. I can even go higher with that unit but
  > decided to stick with the highest value that produces  the fastest
  > production rate without problems

  > I use VIGOROUS stirring to avoid what you call the Nernst layer.

  The Nernst  layer  is  extremely   thin,  perhaps  only  hundreds of
  nanometers thick.  It  is  within  the  boundary  layer  and  is not
  affected by stirring.

  > Apparently it allows me to get very high uS measurements  which as
  > far as I'm concerned is NOT contamination.

  How do you know that? You have done nothing to prove your  system is
  free of contamination.

  > Frank has tested a sample of the product but not at the HIGH  uS I
  > occasionally make.

  He measured 14uS, and one other member also got the same  value. You
  claim your unit makes 20. Why the difference?

  > He tested  a sample from one of our customers.  It  measured 98.6%
  > ionic so that would explain weak/no Tyndall. There is some loss of
  > conductivity over  a short period of time but  once  stabilized it
  > usually stays stable.

  The loss  in  conductivity  may  be due  to  silver  sulfide  on the
  electrodes.

  When was the last time you desulfurized the electrodes?

  > And I  don't need to use salt to tell there's silver in  the water
  > if the water has no conductivity at start-up and high conductivity
  > at the  end  of  the  cycle.   I  trust  the  meter.  Cloudy water
  > comparisons to determine strength don't cut it for me.

  The fact the conductance changes would also occur with leaching from
  the plumbing, contamination from the jug, leakage from the pump, and
  many other sources.

  The salt  test  is  immune   to  contamination,  and  is  a reliable
  indication of the amount of silver in the solution.

  You also  have never performed a Faraday calculation, so  you cannot
  compare the  readings  you  get from the Hanna  with  the  amount of
  silver released from the anodes.

  You have no idea what you are really producing.

  If you are really producing 45+Us, why is no other vendor  using the
  same process?

  Why does  Frank not show any product reports with values as  high as
  you claim?

  > And as  you say, the PWT meter cannot tell the  difference between
  > minerals (contamination)  and silver ions so the  measurement MUST
  > be silver ions.

  That is  a false assumption. You can put salt in the dw and  get the
  same reading.  There is no silver in salt, so you  cannot  claim the
  reading shows how much silver is in the solution.

  You need  to take very careful steps to show your system is  free of
  contamination. You have not done so.

  > Now, please leave me alone. I do not have the time for this.

  You are the one who made the claim and posted it.

  You have time to make claims of the performance of your  system, but
  not enough time to prove they are correct?

  That is a rather risky business model, don't you think?

  >Trem

  Mike


  - Original Message ----- 
  From: David AuBuchon 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 8:14 PM
  Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?


  Trem, Tel, and Others,

  When you made your higher PPM brews, did you stop just because you felt like 
it, or because you actually hit a limit in PPM?

  I have a batch at 50PPM right now, and am going to work it up til it wont go 
no more.  It is however very slow, as I run off 2 AA's.  

  It seems to me that this incremental upping of PPM could be possible 
indefinitely.  

  I notice that transferring the brew to another jar, then right back to the 
first jar actually increases PPM by about 1 or so.  Then I clean the electrodes 
and continue the brew.

  I think that perhaps if you have a uniformly dispersed brew, that there is a 
time window when you first turn on the power when very little silver hydroxide 
is forming, as the denser regions of ions just coming off the electrodes have 
not had time to migrate to the other electrodes yet.  During this time window 
is when the conductance will increase.  When boatloads of pilgrims reach the 
other electrodes however, conductance may peak.  This might suggest that 
vigorous stirring is definitely a help in lengthening that time frame.  It 
might also suggest that increased distance between electrodes could help.  

  This would not "get rid of" the "nernst" layer, but simply make it a 
non-issue for a time frame.  Then the unit can be turned off for a while, and 

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[David AuBuchon]

Trem, Tel, and Others,

When you made your higher PPM brews, did you stop just because you felt
like it, or because you actually hit a limit in PPM?

I have a batch at 50PPM right now, and am going to work it up til it wont
go no more.  It is however very slow, as I run off 2 AA's.

It seems to me that this incremental upping of PPM could be possible
indefinitely.

I notice that transferring the brew to another jar, then right back to the
first jar actually increases PPM by about 1 or so.  Then I clean the
electrodes and continue the brew.

I think that perhaps if you have a uniformly dispersed brew, that there is
a time window when you first turn on the power when very little silver
hydroxide is forming, as the denser regions of ions just coming off the
electrodes have not had time to migrate to the other electrodes yet.
During this time window is when the conductance will increase.  When
boatloads of pilgrims reach the other electrodes however, conductance may
peak.  This might suggest that vigorous stirring is definitely a help in
lengthening that time frame.  It might also suggest that increased distance
between electrodes could help.

This would not "get rid of" the "nernst" layer, but simply make it a
non-issue for a time frame.  Then the unit can be turned off for a while,
and maybe continue to be stirred.  Then do it again and again.  Ultra low
current would get rid of a theoretical nernst layer, but perhaps still in
that case, eventually when boatloads of pilgrims start plating out -
arriving from the other electrode in dense amounts - , this would be a
second reason of a peaking conductance.  Again solvable by turning off the
power for a while.

Just guessing!

Anyone wanna have a PPM-off?

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[D Glover]

Good point, but then  the same increased surface area could be obtained by
using 2mm flat sheeting cut into strips, which I have tried. I decided on
2mm solid wire eventually using 12 electrodes and it works very well. At
first it was not clear to me what the idea behind the tubing was, I had
previously thought it was intended to present a greater overall exposed
surface area, but just bending it so the ends are both out of the water
should be fine, though a 1 mm wall will wear through faster than a 2 mm
wire, and then your tubing will be no good.

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:57 PM, David AuBuchon wrote:

> The tubing could be bent in a U so the inside is unexposed.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 12:53 PM, D Glover  wrote:
>
>> But the tubes would be filled with oxide particles that you couldn't
>> clean out and you would be leaving them in the tubes to seed big ionic
>> clusters in your next batch, leading to bottoming out. I would suggest wire
>> is still the best, I use 12 electrodes cut from 2 metres of 2 mm 99.999%
>> pure silver from Alfa Aesar in Germany, a subdivision of Johnson Matthey
>> (I know I have mentioned some of this before to you, just repeating a
>> little for the benefit of new readers).
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:30 PM, David AuBuchon 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am thinking that may be the case.  Though it may also be that finding
>>> out how to tweak the parameters correctly could get much higher than
>>> 50PPM.  It would be interesting for people with different types of gens to
>>> try it on their setups.  Basically run it until the conductance peaks.
>>> Then clean the electrodes and put the electrodes back in the solution, but
>>> rotate it say 90 degrees (just so they are not in the same location as they
>>> just were).  Then keep repeating until conductance does not increase at all
>>> with brewing.  At this point, let the brew sit for a day, then try again.
>>>
>>> I think using silver tubing instead of wires might help for higher PPMs.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Alchemysa wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, would you say that making highly ionic CS is not really that
>>>> difficult after all?
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>> (Australia)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> From: David AuBuchon 
>>>>> Date: 5 January 2012 7:25:48 AM
>>>>> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I stopped brewing at about a stable 50 uS.  Slight yellow tinge.  It
>>>>> is possible it could go higher if I just kept sticking the generator in 
>>>>> it.
>>>>>  But I got bored.  This concentration brew also does not appear to make me
>>>>> herx or anything.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>>>>  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
>>>>
>>>> Unsubscribe:
>>>>  <mailto:silver-list-request@**eskimo.com
>>>> ?subject=**unsubscribe>
>>>> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/**silver-list@eskimo.com/**
>>>> maillist.html<http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html>
>>>>
>>>> Off-Topic discussions: 
>>>> <mailto:silver-off-topic-list@**eskimo.com
>>>> >
>>>> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[D Glover]

I would recommend not leaving it to sit for a day, as the oxygen in the air
will very rapidly turn the silver ions in the sol to silver oxide, unless
you are temporarily putting the partly-made sol in a sealed container. Your
idea of cleaning the electrodes and putting them back in the same batch is
an interesting idea, though 50 ppm would not be suitable really for any
internal app that I can think of, as it would contain ionic clusters too
big to penetrate cell walls, though Searle in the early 20th century did
some excellent healing of superficial wounds with very high concentrations
or 20,000 ppm and so on, to sterilize and promote very rapid healing of
wounds.

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:30 PM, David AuBuchon wrote:

> I am thinking that may be the case.  Though it may also be that finding
> out how to tweak the parameters correctly could get much higher than
> 50PPM.  It would be interesting for people with different types of gens to
> try it on their setups.  Basically run it until the conductance peaks.
> Then clean the electrodes and put the electrodes back in the solution, but
> rotate it say 90 degrees (just so they are not in the same location as they
> just were).  Then keep repeating until conductance does not increase at all
> with brewing.  At this point, let the brew sit for a day, then try again.
>
> I think using silver tubing instead of wires might help for higher PPMs.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Alchemysa  wrote:
>
>> So, would you say that making highly ionic CS is not really that
>> difficult after all?
>>
>> David
>> (Australia)
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>> From: David AuBuchon 
>>> Date: 5 January 2012 7:25:48 AM
>>> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
>>> Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?
>>>
>>>
>>> I stopped brewing at about a stable 50 uS.  Slight yellow tinge.  It is
>>> possible it could go higher if I just kept sticking the generator in it.
>>>  But I got bored.  This concentration brew also does not appear to make me
>>> herx or anything.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>>  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
>>
>> Unsubscribe:
>>  <mailto:silver-list-request@**eskimo.com
>> ?subject=**unsubscribe>
>> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/**silver-list@eskimo.com/**
>> maillist.html<http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html>
>>
>> Off-Topic discussions: 
>> <mailto:silver-off-topic-list@**eskimo.com
>> >
>> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[David AuBuchon]

The tubing could be bent in a U so the inside is unexposed.

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 12:53 PM, D Glover  wrote:

> But the tubes would be filled with oxide particles that you couldn't clean
> out and you would be leaving them in the tubes to seed big ionic clusters
> in your next batch, leading to bottoming out. I would suggest wire is still
> the best, I use 12 electrodes cut from 2 metres of 2 mm 99.999% pure silver
> from Alfa Aesar in Germany, a subdivision of Johnson Matthey  (I know I
> have mentioned some of this before to you, just repeating a little for the
> benefit of new readers).
>
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:30 PM, David AuBuchon 
> wrote:
>
>> I am thinking that may be the case.  Though it may also be that finding
>> out how to tweak the parameters correctly could get much higher than
>> 50PPM.  It would be interesting for people with different types of gens to
>> try it on their setups.  Basically run it until the conductance peaks.
>> Then clean the electrodes and put the electrodes back in the solution, but
>> rotate it say 90 degrees (just so they are not in the same location as they
>> just were).  Then keep repeating until conductance does not increase at all
>> with brewing.  At this point, let the brew sit for a day, then try again.
>>
>> I think using silver tubing instead of wires might help for higher PPMs.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Alchemysa  wrote:
>>
>>> So, would you say that making highly ionic CS is not really that
>>> difficult after all?
>>>
>>> David
>>> (Australia)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> From: David AuBuchon 
>>>> Date: 5 January 2012 7:25:48 AM
>>>> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
>>>> Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I stopped brewing at about a stable 50 uS.  Slight yellow tinge.  It is
>>>> possible it could go higher if I just kept sticking the generator in it.
>>>>  But I got bored.  This concentration brew also does not appear to make me
>>>> herx or anything.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>>>  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe:
>>>  <mailto:silver-list-request@**eskimo.com
>>> ?subject=**unsubscribe>
>>> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/**silver-list@eskimo.com/**
>>> maillist.html<http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html>
>>>
>>> Off-Topic discussions: 
>>> <mailto:silver-off-topic-list@**eskimo.com
>>> >
>>> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[D Glover]

But the tubes would be filled with oxide particles that you couldn't clean
out and you would be leaving them in the tubes to seed big ionic clusters
in your next batch, leading to bottoming out. I would suggest wire is still
the best, I use 12 electrodes cut from 2 metres of 2 mm 99.999% pure silver
from Alfa Aesar in Germany, a subdivision of Johnson Matthey  (I know I
have mentioned some of this before to you, just repeating a little for the
benefit of new readers).

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:30 PM, David AuBuchon wrote:

> I am thinking that may be the case.  Though it may also be that finding
> out how to tweak the parameters correctly could get much higher than
> 50PPM.  It would be interesting for people with different types of gens to
> try it on their setups.  Basically run it until the conductance peaks.
> Then clean the electrodes and put the electrodes back in the solution, but
> rotate it say 90 degrees (just so they are not in the same location as they
> just were).  Then keep repeating until conductance does not increase at all
> with brewing.  At this point, let the brew sit for a day, then try again.
>
> I think using silver tubing instead of wires might help for higher PPMs.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Alchemysa  wrote:
>
>> So, would you say that making highly ionic CS is not really that
>> difficult after all?
>>
>> David
>> (Australia)
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>> From: David AuBuchon 
>>> Date: 5 January 2012 7:25:48 AM
>>> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
>>> Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?
>>>
>>>
>>> I stopped brewing at about a stable 50 uS.  Slight yellow tinge.  It is
>>> possible it could go higher if I just kept sticking the generator in it.
>>>  But I got bored.  This concentration brew also does not appear to make me
>>> herx or anything.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>>  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
>>
>> Unsubscribe:
>>  <mailto:silver-list-request@**eskimo.com
>> ?subject=**unsubscribe>
>> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/**silver-list@eskimo.com/**
>> maillist.html<http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html>
>>
>> Off-Topic discussions: 
>> <mailto:silver-off-topic-list@**eskimo.com
>> >
>> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[David AuBuchon]

I am thinking that may be the case.  Though it may also be that finding out
how to tweak the parameters correctly could get much higher than 50PPM.  It
would be interesting for people with different types of gens to try it on
their setups.  Basically run it until the conductance peaks.  Then clean
the electrodes and put the electrodes back in the solution, but rotate it
say 90 degrees (just so they are not in the same location as they just
were).  Then keep repeating until conductance does not increase at all with
brewing.  At this point, let the brew sit for a day, then try again.

I think using silver tubing instead of wires might help for higher PPMs.

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Alchemysa  wrote:

> So, would you say that making highly ionic CS is not really that difficult
> after all?
>
> David
> (Australia)
>
>
>
>>>
>> From: David AuBuchon 
>> Date: 5 January 2012 7:25:48 AM
>> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
>> Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?
>>
>>
>> I stopped brewing at about a stable 50 uS.  Slight yellow tinge.  It is
>> possible it could go higher if I just kept sticking the generator in it.
>>  But I got bored.  This concentration brew also does not appear to make me
>> herx or anything.
>>
>
>
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
>
> Unsubscribe:
>  <mailto:silver-list-request@**eskimo.com 
> ?subject=**unsubscribe>
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/**silver-list@eskimo.com/**
> maillist.html<http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html>
>
> Off-Topic discussions: 
> <mailto:silver-off-topic-list@**eskimo.com
> >
> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>
>
>

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[David AuBuchon]

I stopped brewing at about a stable 50 uS.  Slight yellow tinge.  It is
possible it could go higher if I just kept sticking the generator in it.
But I got bored.  This concentration brew also does not appear to make me
herx or anything.

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[David AuBuchon]

FYI my unit runs off of two AA batteries and has slowly made its way up to
a 36uS batch right now.   Hope it just keeps going.

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 6:58 PM, David AuBuchon wrote:

> This is interesting as this suggest that while there is a limit to how
> much AgOH can dissolve, there may be a totally different (if not no
> theoretical limit) for how much Ag+ and OH- can be in solution (i.e. not as
> a result of dissolving AgOH).  Can that physically/chemically make sense?
>
> Perhaps it is as Mike suggests in that whatever AgOH is formed is done so
> immediately in the so called nernst diffusion layer.  This would imply that
> the drop in conductance after a batch finishes is caused by something
> entirely different than AgOH forming.  What could be causing the drop then?
>  And why is it less pronounced in the higher density EIS?  (perhaps some of
> the conductance drop is not seen in the higher PPM EIS, as it is actually
> obscured by the still overall increasing conductance since the higher PPM
> EIS is being processed for a much longer time?)  This could also explain a
> mechanism of particle formation as AgOH clumps right at the site of the
> electrode?
>
> just talking out of something
> David
>

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[David AuBuchon]

This is interesting as this suggest that while there is a limit to how much
AgOH can dissolve, there may be a totally different (if not no theoretical
limit) for how much Ag+ and OH- can be in solution (i.e. not as a result of
dissolving AgOH).  Can that physically/chemically make sense?

Perhaps it is as Mike suggests in that whatever AgOH is formed is done so
immediately in the so called nernst diffusion layer.  This would imply that
the drop in conductance after a batch finishes is caused by something
entirely different than AgOH forming.  What could be causing the drop then?
 And why is it less pronounced in the higher density EIS?  (perhaps some of
the conductance drop is not seen in the higher PPM EIS, as it is actually
obscured by the still overall increasing conductance since the higher PPM
EIS is being processed for a much longer time?)  This could also explain a
mechanism of particle formation as AgOH clumps right at the site of the
electrode?

just talking out of something
David

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[Trem]

Well, so much for spell checking.  I apologize for the errors but I'm sure you 
can tell what I meant.

Trem


  - Original Message - 
  From: Trem 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 6:44 PM
  Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?


  I guess it's appropriate for me to chime in.  I have made ionic silver as 
high as 50+ PPM using the SG7 as measured with a Hanna PWT meter.  Some is 
stored in glass and some in 2 liter cola bottles.  It was measured at 45+ PPM.  
A couple of them have a slight golden color indicating a small amount of 
agglomeration.

  I use vigorous water movement to avoid what Mike M calls the Nernst layer.  
If it's there it is certainly very thin.

  I check them every couple of years and some have drifted down a small amount. 
 I relate microsiemens directly to PPM, having correlated them many years ago 
by lab analysis.  It tuned out that 1 uS equals 1 PPM.  That's when we started 
sell the meters for use as ionic/colloidal silver PPM meters.

  We distilled our well water using a Barnstead lab still.  As I recall the 
water was under 1 microsiemen.

  There is a minor amount of fallout besides the small drop in PPM.  No 
plateout so we Consider the water as having unlimited shelf life.  It is about 
11 years old now.

  Trem


- Original Message - 
From: David AuBuchon 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 6:12 PM
    Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?


It could be, though I am also skeptical.  Natural Immunogenics for example 
only has 23PPM with all their years of work.  And that is also suspiciously 
close to one hypothetical upper bound of roughly 26PPM (13PPM silver oxide, 13 
PPM silverhydroxide).  This lends credence to that hypothetical upper bound 
(without using ultra low current density like Mike is doing, that is). 


How is the 40PPM measured on the SilverGen?  A built in meter?  Short of 
getting a batch lab-analyzed, the correctness and relevance of the reading that 
that meter gives would need to be validated.  The conductance drop over time 
after the batch is finished would also need to be viewed.  Also visible 
plateout or fallout.  Also potential contamination sources.

David  



On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 5:48 AM, Alan Jones  wrote:

  Would you mind sharing more details on this?  How small must the batch 
be?  How pure must the water be? 


  -Alan 



  On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Alchemysa  
wrote: 

Anyway, I've made 40+ ppm CS with a Silverpuppy in the past. Its not 
that hard. Its just a matter of using very pure water and keeping the batch 
size small.  Trem has also said he's made 40+ with a Silvergen. Mike would 
dispute this of course.

David


  -- 

  Alan Jones

  "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor 
prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to 
the people."  (Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution)

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[Trem]

I guess it's appropriate for me to chime in.  I have made ionic silver as high 
as 50+ PPM using the SG7 as measured with a Hanna PWT meter.  Some is stored in 
glass and some in 2 liter cola bottles.  It was measured at 45+ PPM.  A couple 
of them have a slight golden color indicating a small amount of agglomeration.

I use vigorous water movement to avoid what Mike M calls the Nernst layer.  If 
it's there it is certainly very thin.

I check them every couple of years and some have drifted down a small amount.  
I relate microsiemens directly to PPM, having correlated them many years ago by 
lab analysis.  It tuned out that 1 uS equals 1 PPM.  That's when we started 
sell the meters for use as ionic/colloidal silver PPM meters.

We distilled our well water using a Barnstead lab still.  As I recall the water 
was under 1 microsiemen.

There is a minor amount of fallout besides the small drop in PPM.  No plateout 
so we Consider the water as having unlimited shelf life.  It is about 11 years 
old now.

Trem


  - Original Message - 
  From: David AuBuchon 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 6:12 PM
  Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?


  It could be, though I am also skeptical.  Natural Immunogenics for example 
only has 23PPM with all their years of work.  And that is also suspiciously 
close to one hypothetical upper bound of roughly 26PPM (13PPM silver oxide, 13 
PPM silverhydroxide).  This lends credence to that hypothetical upper bound 
(without using ultra low current density like Mike is doing, that is).


  How is the 40PPM measured on the SilverGen?  A built in meter?  Short of 
getting a batch lab-analyzed, the correctness and relevance of the reading that 
that meter gives would need to be validated.  The conductance drop over time 
after the batch is finished would also need to be viewed.  Also visible 
plateout or fallout.  Also potential contamination sources.

  David  



  On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 5:48 AM, Alan Jones  wrote:

Would you mind sharing more details on this?  How small must the batch be?  
How pure must the water be?


-Alan



On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Alchemysa  wrote:

  Anyway, I've made 40+ ppm CS with a Silverpuppy in the past. Its not that 
hard. Its just a matter of using very pure water and keeping the batch size 
small.  Trem has also said he's made 40+ with a Silvergen. Mike would dispute 
this of course.

  David


-- 

Alan Jones

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor 
prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to 
the people."  (Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution)

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[sol]

Marshall wrote:
I might add that when using a process that is very very slow, or uses 
bubbling, the water has time to absorb CO2, producing silver 
carbonate. Silver carbonate has a solubility of 32 ppm, so it is 
possible to exceed 40 ppm if silver carbonate is being made.


Marshall

What is the effectiveness of silver carbonate? Anything? What happens to 
it when ingested?

sol


--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
 Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

Unsubscribe:
 
Archives: 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html


Off-Topic discussions: 
List Owner: Mike Devour 

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[Marshall]

I might add that when using a process that is very very slow, or uses 
bubbling, the water has time to absorb CO2, producing silver carbonate. 
Silver carbonate has a solubility of 32 ppm, so it is possible to exceed 
40 ppm if silver carbonate is being made.


Marshall

On 12/19/2011 9:12 PM, David AuBuchon wrote:
It could be, though I am also skeptical.  Natural Immunogenics for 
example only has 23PPM with all their years of work.  And that is also 
suspiciously close to one hypothetical upper bound of roughly 26PPM 
(13PPM silver oxide, 13 PPM silverhydroxide).  This lends credence to 
that hypothetical upper bound (without using ultra low current density 
like Mike is doing, that is).


How is the 40PPM measured on the SilverGen?  A built in meter?  Short 
of getting a batch lab-analyzed, the correctness and relevance of the 
reading that that meter gives would need to be validated.  The 
conductance drop over time after the batch is finished would also need 
to be viewed.  Also visible plateout or fallout.  Also potential 
contamination sources.


David


On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 5:48 AM, Alan Jones > wrote:


Would you mind sharing more details on this?  How small must the
batch be?  How pure must the water be?

-Alan


On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Alchemysa mailto:da...@alchemysa.com.au>> wrote:


Anyway, I've made 40+ ppm CS with a Silverpuppy in the past.
Its not that hard. Its just a matter of using very pure water
and keeping the batch size small.  Trem has also said he's
made 40+ with a Silvergen. Mike would dispute this of course.

David

-- 
Alan Jones


"The powers not delegated to the United States by the
Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to
the States respectively, or to the people."  (Tenth Amendment to
the US Constitution)

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[David AuBuchon]

It could be, though I am also skeptical.  Natural Immunogenics for example
only has 23PPM with all their years of work.  And that is also suspiciously
close to one hypothetical upper bound of roughly 26PPM (13PPM silver oxide,
13 PPM silverhydroxide).  This lends credence to that hypothetical upper
bound (without using ultra low current density like Mike is doing, that is).

How is the 40PPM measured on the SilverGen?  A built in meter?  Short of
getting a batch lab-analyzed, the correctness and relevance of the reading
that that meter gives would need to be validated.  The conductance drop
over time after the batch is finished would also need to be viewed.  Also
visible plateout or fallout.  Also potential contamination sources.

David


On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 5:48 AM, Alan Jones  wrote:

> Would you mind sharing more details on this?  How small must the batch be?
>  How pure must the water be?
>
> -Alan
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Alchemysa  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Anyway, I've made 40+ ppm CS with a Silverpuppy in the past. Its not that
>> hard. Its just a matter of using very pure water and keeping the batch size
>> small.  Trem has also said he's made 40+ with a Silvergen. Mike would
>> dispute this of course.
>>
>> David
>>
>> --
> Alan Jones
>
> "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
> prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or
> to the people."  (Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution)
>

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[Alan Jones]

Would you mind sharing more details on this?  How small must the batch be?
 How pure must the water be?

-Alan

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Alchemysa  wrote:
>
>
> Anyway, I've made 40+ ppm CS with a Silverpuppy in the past. Its not that
> hard. Its just a matter of using very pure water and keeping the batch size
> small.  Trem has also said he's made 40+ with a Silvergen. Mike would
> dispute this of course.
>
> David
>
> --
Alan Jones

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or
to the people."  (Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution)

RE: CS>The Silvercell process?

[Neville Munn]

> From: da...@alchemysa.com.au
> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 13:48:48 +1030
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: CS>The Silvercell process?
> 
> >
> > David, are you still on his forum?
> >
> > David
> >
> 
> 
> I look in on it occasionally but havent contributed. Like I said,  
> after initially claiming it was super simple, his advice seems to be  
> getting very complicated. Even if he does sort out his system it may  
> produce benefits signicantly less than he promises. Theres really no  
> solid evidence that ANY form of CS works any better than any other  
> form of CS. Its all anecdotal, and we should all know how unreliable  
> that can be. (I'm sure you'll understand that there's no point making  
> these comments on Mike's own forum.)
> 
> Anyway, I've made 40+ ppm CS with a Silverpuppy in the past. Its not  
> that hard. Its just a matter of using very pure water and keeping the  
> batch size small.  Trem has also said he's made 40+ with a Silvergen.  
> Mike would dispute this of course.
## Any fallout or plate out evident after 2-4 weeks?
N.
> David
> 
> 
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>   Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
> 
> Unsubscribe:
>   
> Archives: 
>   http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
> 
> Off-Topic discussions: 
> List Owner: Mike Devour 
> 
> 
  

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[David AuBuchon]

Nope.  Not that I know of.  It is all just assuming that the use of
conductance to approximate silver content (thus far used for things under
about 15PPM) continues to hold true at higher PPM.

Does conductance in fact increase linearly with silver ion content?  In the
limit, a solution would have eventually get an infinite conductance and the
curve may look asymptotic at some point.

I recall that after terminating the brew, there is some conductance drop in
the next day or so, but it is much less than the conductance drop seen with
regular EIS.

David

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 2:01 AM, Neville Munn wrote:

>  I didn't follow him to his site so I don't know, but has he ever put up
> two (2) laboratory analysis reports from the *same* batch brewed indicating
> ion/particle ratio and total amount of silver in aforesaid product sample?
>
> 1. Within 24 hours of production cessation including a pH level, and
> 2. Another a week later from the same batch including a pH level?
>
> And even praps another two (2) samples tested in similar fashion from
> separate batch brewed?
>
> N.
>
> > To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> > From: da...@alchemysa.com.au
> > Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 12:35:10 +1030
> > Subject: CS>The Silvercell process?
>
> >
> > Anyone been able to make head or tail of this? Mike originally
> > suggested the whole thing was just about finalised, but it seems far
> > from it. In fact its looking more and more like one long meander up
> > the garden path to me. Things seem still to be very much in the
> > development phase to me, and for very little benefit anyway. A few
> > extra ppm of ionic silver 'might' be produced, but for exactly what
> > purpose? Mike's claims of high ionic ppm being vastly superior is
> > based on a clinical trail of one person - himself. (A man who is
> > constantly sick). Sadly some of his 'followers' seem to be hanging on
> > tenterhooks waiting for the big breakthrough instead of just being
> > directed on how to make easy, simple CS like we do.
> >
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
> > Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
> >
> > Unsubscribe:
> > 
> > Archives:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
> >
> > Off-Topic discussions: 
> > List Owner: Mike Devour 
> >
> >
>

RE: CS>The Silvercell process?

[Neville Munn]

I didn't follow him to his site so I don't know, but has he ever put up two (2) 
laboratory analysis reports from the *same* batch brewed indicating 
ion/particle ratio and total amount of silver in aforesaid product sample?
1. Within 24 hours of production cessation including a pH level, and 2. Another 
a week later from the same batch including a pH level?
And even praps another two (2) samples tested in similar fashion from separate 
batch brewed?
N.

> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> From: da...@alchemysa.com.au
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 12:35:10 +1030
> Subject: CS>The Silvercell process?
> 
> Anyone been able to make head or tail of this? Mike originally  
> suggested the whole thing was just about finalised, but it seems far  
> from it. In fact its looking more and more like one long meander up  
> the garden path to me.  Things seem still to be very much in the  
> development phase to me, and for very little benefit anyway. A few  
> extra ppm of ionic silver 'might' be produced, but for exactly what  
> purpose? Mike's claims of high ionic ppm being vastly superior is  
> based on a clinical trail of one person - himself. (A man who is  
> constantly sick). Sadly some of his 'followers' seem to be hanging on  
> tenterhooks waiting for the big breakthrough instead of just being  
> directed on how to make easy, simple CS like we do.
> 
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>   Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
> 
> Unsubscribe:
>   
> Archives: 
>   http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
> 
> Off-Topic discussions: 
> List Owner: Mike Devour 
> 
> 
  

Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

[David AuBuchon]

Well, If I recall, he said he had a few people with some viral infections
who took care of it with his stuff sublingually (not swallowed), when lower
PPM EIS did not do it with swallowing.  That is not something that should
be ignored.  I also know on the salt/C forum, there are I think 2 or 3
people with lyme who peaked on oral EIS, but continued to herx after
switching to Silver 100.  So different silver products of various types of
concentrations can be complementary and/or work differently or better than
others.

I seem to recall some people on this forum have shared anecdotes of a
certain PPM not cutting it, but then working once the brewed it at a higher
PPM.  Could be mistaken though.

He has produced roughly 40PPM before (last I checked anyway, before he
kicked me off his forum).  As I see it, there is potential for much higher
than 40PPM actually.  It is definitely worth investigating.  The very fact
that he got anything significantly above 26PPM raises questions about the
theoretical limitation of his process.  What if it were possible to make
100PPM for example?

His process seems to avoid the nernst diffusion layer becoming too thick
and forming silver hydroxide at the electrodes, but then there is a
flattening out of conductance when he gets higher up towards 40PPM.  There
is some secondary limitation now, that is not due to the nernst diffusion
layer.  He said it had something to do with ions becoming to gathered
around the electrode to which is had migrated, reaching a point where they
plateout as fast than they are added to solution if I remember correctly.
 He could manage this for a while by swapping polarity once or twice once
the conductivity started flattening out.  There would be further increases
in the conductivity this way, but eventually this polarity swapping stopped
providing additional increase in conductance.  I suggested to him a very
very light thermal stirring might disperse the silver ions near the
electrodes more evenly into the solution, and possibly make his process
bypass this secondary limitation, possibly getting PPM much higher than 40,
even without need for polarity swapping.  He dismissed it as laughable like
half of every other suggestion people make.  The other half of comments he
praises as being genius.

One way to really keep a low current density is use the 99.9 silver tubing
I linked to like a month ago.  No one seems to have used that in a
generator yet.  It has many times the surface area of 12 gauge wire.  They
have many widths to choose from.  More electrode surface area might also
alleviate this congregating of silver ions near the electrode (perhaps
proportionally with the increase of surface area), which is the secondary
limitation he runs into - the first limitation being the nernst layer, not
being a problem in theory as his current density stays constant below an
unspecified experimental threshold for the parameters of his generator.

He is super sick with mold illness. Unfortunately it seems he does not know
anything about treating it.  He is constantly exposed to mold, and if he
does not move, it is hopeless.  He would rather fiddle with this and that
device to try and manage the mold in his apartment.  Even if you are not
exposed to mold at all, people are still sick, not at all because of mold
exposure or mold infection, but because of leftover biotoxons that they
cannot properly eliminate.  Killing mold in your body is not enough to beat
mold illness.  Detox is the main problem.  There are doctors who treat mold
illness specifically, and he has no chance on stumbling over what they know
he needs to do.  It is actually a really complicated treatment.

His plan to make it doable for the single mom is not going to work.  He
drives here and there scrounging for cheap parts that stores are trashing.
etc.  No one is gonna do that.  It needs to be sold prebuilt or its
hopeless.

David, are you still on his forum?

Supposedly he will eventually have a instruction manual for others to
replicate his generator, so for most of us, we just wait for that and his
documentation of the process and his experiments.

Seriously though, a lot of info could eventually come out of his stuff.

David







On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Alchemysa  wrote:

> Anyone been able to make head or tail of this? Mike originally suggested
> the whole thing was just about finalised, but it seems far from it. In fact
> its looking more and more like one long meander up the garden path to me.
>  Things seem still to be very much in the development phase to me, and for
> very little benefit anyway. A few extra ppm of ionic silver 'might' be
> produced, but for exactly what purpose? Mike's claims of high ionic ppm
> being vastly superior is based on a clinical trail of one person - himself.
> (A man who is constantly sick). Sadly some of his 'followers' seem to be
> hanging on tenterhooks waiting for the big breakthrough instead of just
> being directed on how to make easy, simp