Re: [SLUG] BPay/St.George with Linux/Netscape 4.75
DaZZa wrote: I'm told both ANZ and Westpac don't sneer when you say you're using something other than WindoZe. Westpac is the lesser of many evilbanques. Back in the year 2000, Westpac was working fine on Linux. Then I was on evilWare doing some accounting, and Westpac didn't work. How's that for a change! I called them up, complemented them on a web site that works with non-evilware, and asked why The Biggest and Best O/S in the World was having trouble. A netscrape SSL upgrade fixed the problem. Also, I've actually seen B-pay work fine via Westpac on Linux. So there is hope! -- Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Pty Limited "We don't do VB around here. Nor do we drink it." -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] More on Allchin's comments about open source
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010220/tc/microsoft_clarifies_exec_s_open-source_concerns_1.html Seems it's not open source per se he thinks is against the American way etc, but is more concerned about the GPL - the 'infectious' bit, paragraph 2B "You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License." This is what will stifle innovation, apparently because anybody who adds to/uses GPLed code has to make the source available to everybody else. He (or at least the MS spindoctors) likes the BSD license better. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] More on Allchin's comments about open source
quote who="Tom Massey" He (or at least the MS spindoctors) likes the BSD license better. Of course they do... "Hey dude, this sucks. Everyone's bitching about feature x, so we're just going to have to fix it." "Man, you can't write feature x before the next release, that would be crazy!" "Wonder how they do it in *BSD?" [ Whilst this may *sound* like Linux developers, I am in fact parodying NT developers. Riowr! ] - Jeff -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- "In addition to these ample facilities, there exists a powerful configuration tool called gcc." - Elliot Hughes, author of lwm -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Wierdness - or maybe I need sleep
Assume we have two machines, A and B, running the same version of Linux. A is a workstation, B is a server (with Samba share for the Mrs) On A, user 1 has a UID of 500, user 2 has a UID of 501 On B, user 1 has a UID of 501, user 2 has a UID of 500 When user 1 goes to B:/home/user1, all files are owned by user1:users. When you TELNET to B from A, user1's files are suddenly owned by user2 ? Que ?? I didn't think UID's mattered across NFS mounts ? Jon -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] compiling vmailmgr... errors
I installed that package, but i get same error... Any other clues? Thanks Michael - Original Message - From: "Thom May" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 19 February 2001 10:47 Subject: Re: [SLUG] compiling vmailmgr... errors aptget install libg++2.8.1.3 this drags in all the ancillary stuff that you need for a working C++ compiler - g++ on its own isn't enough. -Thom * Michael ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote on Mon Feb 19, 2001 at 09:19:56 +1100: Yes, ultra:/etc/bind/pri# apt-get install g++ Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done Sorry, g++ is already the newest version 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Have you got a C++ compiler installed? :) Usually in a package called something like g++. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Wierdness - or maybe I need sleep
Assume we have two machines, A and B, running the same version of Linux. A is a workstation, B is a server (with Samba share for the Mrs) On A, user 1 has a UID of 500, user 2 has a UID of 501 On B, user 1 has a UID of 501, user 2 has a UID of 500 When user 1 goes to B:/home/user1, all files are owned by user1:users. When you TELNET to B from A, user1's files are suddenly owned by user2 ? When the file was created on B:/home/user1 from A, the uid given to the file was 500. Remember that the filesystem only stores numbers, no names. As long as you work on the machine you created the file on, you're ok. Now you go to B and do a ls. The uid is 500 and this displays as user2 using B's /etc/passwd (or equivalent). -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] A problem with Open-SSH
I am attempting to get two hosts to talk with each other using Open-SSH. The server is configured to not accept passwords, only key exchange, and root login is permitted. When I run the client in verbose mode the dialog indicates that both publickey and password authentication is available. When I run the server in debug mode all looks well until the client attempts to authenticate. At this point I get the following error messages. It appears that my problem might lie in the first 3 lines: [...] debug: userauth-request for user root service ssh-connection method none debug: Starting up PAM with username "root" Failed none for ROOT from 203.41.237.83 port 1022 ssh2 debug: userauth-request for user root service ssh-connection method password Failed password for ROOT from 203.41.237.83 port 1022 ssh2 debug: userauth-request for user root service ssh-connection method password Failed password for ROOT from 203.41.237.83 port 1022 ssh2 debug: userauth-request for user root service ssh-connection method password Failed password for ROOT from 203.41.237.83 port 1022 ssh2 Connection closed by 203.41.237.83 Cluestick anyone? -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates http://lannetlinux.com "...well, it worked before _you_ touched it!" -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] A problem with Open-SSH
On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 12:13:22AM +1100, Howard Lowndes wrote: ... When I run the server in debug mode all looks well until the client attempts to authenticate. At this point I get the following error messages. It appears that my problem might lie in the first 3 lines: [...] debug: userauth-request for user root service ssh-connection method none debug: Starting up PAM with username "root" Failed none for ROOT from 203.41.237.83 port 1022 ssh2 ... Cluestick anyone? Not too sure about openssh but I bet they work the same. with ssh it tries an empty password first before trying the key. what may be happening is that even though you said no passwd auth, it took it to mean no password prompting (and therefore no auth). as such it does it's default first run with an empty password/empty key pharse and if it succeeds all is well. if not it would normally do a prompt for password/key phrase but you turned that off. -- CaT ([EMAIL PROTECTED])*** Jenna has joined the channel. cat speaking of mental giants.. Jenna me, a giant, bullshit Jenna And i'm not mental - An IRC session, 20/12/2000 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] deltree equivalent OK
More like: find new job cd / rm -rf * get even newer job breaking rocks for 10 years -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates http://lannetlinux.com "...well, it worked before _you_ touched it!" On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Peter Worboys wrote: Actually its other way around find new job cd / rm -rf * k -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Weird CDROM behaviour under Linux only
On 22 Feb, Terry Collins wrote:
Which means your backup devices is SCSI, so you might as well buy scsi
stuff anyway {:-)
Good point! :-)
But aren't EIDE drives considerably cheaper than scsi, still? So, you
could make yourself a nice RAID system, which would help.
Then, just back it up on a hundred DVDR discs. :-)
Backups are a problem, aren't they?
Personally, I'm finding that CDRW are just fine for my home system.
(Actually, I have a cascading system of nightly zip backups, and every
few months need to do a bigger backup of everything, onto CDRW.)
luke
--
SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Weird CDROM behaviour under Linux only
hehehe maybe that's why M$ CDROM drivers make such great toasters! Ignore all interrupts, they are only there to annoy the programmer! Why on earth would hardware engineers put interrupts in... Oh, full buffer? I never would guess that a computer could get busy... (mumble mutter) - Jill. -- Jill Rowling, Snr Des. Eng. Unix System Administrator Eng. Systems Dept, Aristocrat Technologies Australia 3rd Floor, 77 Dunning Ave Rosebery NSW 2018 Phone: (02) 9697-4484 Fax: (02) 9663-1412 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Ken Yap wrote: - Note that many MS-DOS CDROM drivers will still function even if there are hardware problems with the interrupt setup; they apparently don't use interrupts. -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE -- This email is intended only to be read or used by the addressee. The information contained in this e-mail message may be confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, distribution, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. Confidentiality attached to this communication is not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery to you. If you have received this message in error, please delete it and notify us by return e-mail or telephone Aristocrat Technologies Australia Pty Limited on +61 2 9413 6300. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] deltree equivalent OK
Actually its other way around find new job cd / rm -rf * On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Simon Bryan wrote: Thanks everyone got that! Now let me see, cd / rm -rf * find new job :-) Actually had a friend that on his first day in tech support, did do a deltree in the root directory of the bosses computer! Fortunately they did have data backups. I think he did it at about 2pm and went home about 3am and was back at work looking like nothing had happened at 8am the next day. Since this was a fresh install of everything, the system actually ran better, no fragmented files etc. The boss, unaware of the process, thanked him for 'tuning up' his system. At 08:28 22/02/2001, you wrote: Hi, Is there an equivalent in Linux to the DOS deltree, that will remove folders, files and .files without confirmation? Such a fun command on a Windows system, generally goes like: cd / deltree * Oh S***T! Simon Bryan IT Manager OLMC Parramatta http://www.olmc.nsw.edu.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug Simon Bryan IT Manager OLMC Parramatta http://www.olmc.nsw.edu.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Weird CDROM behaviour under Linux only
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(I didn't know that the new driver supported up to 6 IDE interfaces!
So that'd be up to 12 discs; at say 60Gb per disc, you could easily
have 0.7 terabytes on your desktop.)
Which means your backup devices is SCSI, so you might as well buy scsi
stuff anyway {:-)
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.woa.com.au
WOA Computer Services lan/wan, linux/unix, novell
"People without trees are like fish without clean water"
--
SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Hardware recommendation
As usual, the slug mailing list is an amazing source of information. Thanks everyone for your response. The comments from Ken effectively summarise why I am intending to use the onboard nic (no fan etc). I have an existing firewall box which is performing quite nicely (P166, DFE-530, 3Com 3c905) but generates the normal amount of noise that an AT case with a few fans does. Therefore there is a little resistance (putting it nicely) to the concept of leaving the machine on all the time. I've looked around and found a case that looks small and quiet (Aopen H300 if anyone is interested). Asus make a FlexATX board with the onboard 8139 (and everything else). My idea is to use this with another 8139 as the firewall (floppy, 5400rpm hard drive and no cd or anything else). Hopefully this should be quiet enough to be ignored. And yes, the box will be stupidly over-specced for firewall purposes but it should make a good seti@home machine (watching the heat levels of course). Thanks again all, Nicholas (BTW, using yahoo and the digest makes quoting mail rather difficult). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Weird CDROM behaviour under Linux only
On 22 Feb, Terry Collins wrote: I have had problems with various no-name CDroms being recognised by Linux over the years, particularly with older HW (486 Pentium mobo's). so you are not mad. The only solution I've found is to try another brand. But wouldn't that be more deterministic, if that was the problem? It seems to work fine until the first eject after booting up. Ken Yap wrote: Master slave jumper settings on the CDROM? Win95/DOS tends to tolerate misconfigured jumpers better than Linux. That's possible. I read this in the HOWTO: As explained in the file ide-cd, ATAPI CD-ROMS should be jumpered as "single" or "master", and not "slave" when only one IDE device is attached to an interface (although this restriction is no longer enforced with recent kernels). Ah. And this bit in /usr/src/linux-2.2.16/Documentation/cdrom/ide-cd sounds like it may be the problem: - Double-check your hardware configuration to make sure that the IRQ number of your IDE interface matches what the driver expects. [...] - Note that many MS-DOS CDROM drivers will still function even if there are hardware problems with the interrupt setup; they apparently don't use interrupts. I think this line of investigation will bear fruit. Also, some interesting stuff in /usr/src/linux-2.2.16/Documentation/ide.txt (I didn't know that the new driver supported up to 6 IDE interfaces! So that'd be up to 12 discs; at say 60Gb per disc, you could easily have 0.7 terabytes on your desktop.) luke -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] A problem with Open-SSH
quote who="Howard Lowndes" Failed password for ROOT from 203.41.237.83 port 1022 ssh2 Connection closed by 203.41.237.83 Cluestick anyone? Is the server allowing root logins? I always disallow that on my machines, and many OpenSSH setups do by default. Same thing for a normal user? - Jeff -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- "I think that Clueless was deep. I think it was deep in the way that it was light. I think lightness has to come from a deep place if it's true lightness." - Alicia Silverstone -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] mod_auth_mysql
Guys, I'm having a great deal of trouble installing mod_auth_mysql. I've tried 2 versions of Apache, 3 versions of MySQL, and numerous other sacrifies, and nothing is working. ./bin/apachectl configtest Syntax error on line 228 of /pub/web/bin/apache/conf/httpd.conf: Cannot load /pub/web/bin/apache/libexec/mod_auth_mysql.so into server: /pub/web/bin/apache/libexec/mod_auth_mysql.so: undefined symbol: register_cleanup In this context, what is a symbol and how can i define it? Please reply directly to me, as this address isn't subscribed. -- Steven -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] deltree equivalent
On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 08:44:32AM +1100, DaZZa wrote: It'll delete every file until you hit the rm executable - and once it deletes that, the process will stop Oh no it won't. `rm' will happily delete itself and keep going. Cheers, John -- whois [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Hardware recommendation
|Who upgrades on a mass basis? And the littleness |gives peope more desk space. ;) | |They also shouldnt be bad linux boxes. | |I have no gripes with inbuilt stuff when you |get such a size difference. Certainly home |machines benefit from upgradability though. | |I wouldnt buy such a thing. But they suit |our needs well. I have a thin client box, fanless, that has an onboard 8139. There would be no way to achieve the small size and fanlessness without integrating the NIC. Works fine. As NIC chips have become commodity items, you're going to see more integration. It wasn't so long ago that an addon 16550 serial board costs as much as a NIC now. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] A problem with Open-SSH
On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 12:13:00AM +1100, Howard Lowndes wrote: debug: userauth-request for user root service ssh-connection method none debug: Starting up PAM with username "root" Does /etc/pam.d/sshd exist? Cheers, John -- whois [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Hardware recommendation
Mboards have just about everything on board now. Our latest roll out is an i810 and soundMAX (?) onboard with a 530tx card. These machines are about the size of 2 laptops. (not inc 17" obviously) have 1 x lil fdd and 2 x big fdd Who upgrades on a mass basis? And the littleness gives peope more desk space. ;) They also shouldnt be bad linux boxes. I have no gripes with inbuilt stuff when you get such a size difference. Certainly home machines benefit from upgradability though. I wouldnt buy such a thing. But they suit our needs well. Dean Ken Yap wrote: |Onboard? Run away, run away! | |I highly recommend having as much off the motherboard as you can - they |always come back to bite later anyway. A network interface is less of a |problem than a sound card or whatever, but it's always good to be able to |pull out a problem. :) Nah, they're fine. Usually there's a BIOS option to disable the NIC. Would you recommend always having serial and parallel interfaces offboard? They work fine. You don't have a choice these days anyway. The usual problem is that up till recently up till recently most mobos with integrated NICs were mediocre. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: RE: [SLUG] Hardware recommendation
Yes, but your cable modem is only 10Mbits/Sec, well atleast my CM100 is. Original Message: - From: Marty Richards [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:51:56 +1100 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [SLUG] Hardware recommendation Also, 486's sometimes have trouble keeping up with a 100Mb card (if you can find an ISA one?), and PCI is not an option. Mail2Web - Check your email from the web at http://www.mail2web.com/ . -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Hardware recommendation
|Onboard? Run away, run away! | |I highly recommend having as much off the motherboard as you can - they |always come back to bite later anyway. A network interface is less of a |problem than a sound card or whatever, but it's always good to be able to |pull out a problem. :) Nah, they're fine. Usually there's a BIOS option to disable the NIC. Would you recommend always having serial and parallel interfaces offboard? They work fine. You don't have a choice these days anyway. The usual problem is that up till recently up till recently most mobos with integrated NICs were mediocre. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Email Programs
that's exactly what I've been wanting for ages, a nice stable, lean, gui browser. I thought (originally) mozilla was going to be that when now all it seems to be is a rehash of netscape. You can install mozilla without all of that you know. Also have you ever looked at opera ? You could also ask the galeon guys for a windows port. Jason -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Weird CDROM behaviour under Linux only
I've read through the CDROM howto, burt there's no mention of a problem like I had recently. A friend and I put together a PC for a friend of ours, from spare parts - *except* for the CDROM, which is a new 48x unit. It's a 1996 motherboard I'd say, judging by the BIOS date. It's a 150MHz Pentium. We installed Linux too because our friend has heard us discuss it, and is curious. But he needs Windows so he can run DragonDictate (RSI type problem). Anyway... Weird problem with the CDROM, but *only* under Linux. (Under Win95 it works fine and reliably.) Under Linux (RH 7.0) it sometimes can't see the drive at all - the complaint mentions something like cdrom_irq. Sometimes it says "the CDROM appears confused". Sometimes it only reads partial data from the CD (e.g. an ls on /mnt/cdrom listed 3 directories; after a power-cycle reboot it saw all 12 or so that were really there). Sometimes it refuses to mount. (The CD chosen is irrelevant, BTW.) It seems to be related to how much load we put on it - e.g. copying off the large StarOffice 5.2 installation binary seemed to work fine, but when we ran it it started complaining of missing files. A power cycle followed by an install straight from the CD however worked fine - just took longer. A full power cycle seems to snap the drive out of its bozo state. Thinking about it now, it also seemed like it got confused after you ejected the CD and put a CD in next (with umount and mount in between, of course!). I.e. you get a chance to work with one CD, and have to do a hard reboot before using another (or the same one). The CDROM is a new no-name ATAPI drive - I bought it specially for the machine. Plus it works fine under Windows. :-( Does Linux have some aggressive optimisations for use of IDE CDROM drives? Maybe the older motherboard isn't up to this? The CD is much newer than the machine... Maybe there's an assumption in the driver that new CD == new motherboard? Does anyone know of any relevant lore? This is running with the stock RH 7.0 kernel - luke -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Hardware recommendation
Netgear 310 10/100 cards are well supported with the tulip driver. However up until 2.2.18 (and possibly still) you need to reload the kernel module if the cable is pulled out or something. So be sure to have a really solid connection as short inteferences you normally wouldnt notice will cause the card to stop being connected. We use these in our proxy cluster. 311's are supported in 2.4.x under a different driver. Look on daves site. Intel eepro100's are good, no problems here. I run 2 dual p3 servers with 2 per machine (one on the mboard). I know alot of people swear by them. Dlink 530tx rev a's are run with the via-rhine driver. The latest rev of this card (rev c) needs an updated driver which is on dave m's site and included in 2.4.x. Turn *off* APM with these cards as linux cant handle it (thats our conclusion. apm on problems on, apm off problems off. seems logical) 530tx+ are actual realtek 8139 chips, use 8139too. Alot of $40 10/100 are 8139. Probably 99% of them. I have run three of these in a single box with no problems (other than that realteks are cpu using) using the old driver. I have one in the pc im using now. (i have seen skymaster, acer and full on nonamed cards as 8139's) 3com also makes excellent 10/100 nics. I have 2 servers runing 3c509's and i have no complaints. Netgear makes a good vanilla 10/100 card (soho market) and their gigagbit cards work well in linux as well (apm bug though). Dean Apologies for the long-winded post - I guess my question boils down to: 1. Is anyone having problems with 1 or 2 8139 cards in the same machine? 2. The Intel seems to be a very popular choice - would it be worth investing in (I know worth is relative but the difference is 128meg of ram g). you may have read my recent posts on problems getting a Dlink DFE-530TX card to work, well I swapped it for a RealTek 8139 card (brand is "skymaster") and that works great (auto-detected etc in esmith 4.1 (based on RH7)). I've no idea of performance but it works for me. Dave. To second the motion, I have had some intermittent problems with the intel 82559. On a Slackware 7.1 box, it seemed to work fine for a week or more but would occasionally dump the interface with errors similar to RX buffer not available TX buffer not available Rebooting (eek!) was necessary to bring it back on line. It might have been a driver issue... but I would have thought 7.1 would be fairly up to date... Anyways I ripped it out and threw in a cheapy Netgear which is doing very well. ;) Cheers, Marty -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Hardware recommendation
|1. Is anyone having problems with 1 or 2 8139 cards in the same |machine? |2. The Intel seems to be a very popular choice - would it be worth |investing in (I know worth is relative but the difference is 128meg |of ram g). For the use you envisage RTL8139 is fine, just make sure to get the latest version of the driver as problems have been reported even recently. The 8139 isn't *that* bad a NIC, certainly heaps better than the PCI NE2000s. Donald Becker's main gripe with it is that it requires 8-byte alignment of transmit packets which costs an extra copy in general. I wouldn't use it on a fileserver though. My favourite inexpensive NIC is the MX98715, which is a Tulip clone and sold under the label Skymaster 10/100 here. It's about $20. I haven't seen it incorporated on motherboards though. The Davicom 9102 is another Tulip clone I have seen on one or two integrated mobos. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Hardware recommendation
Here's me fire wall config: Intel 486 DX 2 66, (over powered btw) 32 MB (once again overkill) 2 Intel Ether Express isa Cards 1 Floppy Router, there are many option in this area eg: LRP, FloppFW, FreeSco etc etc. I had a firewall like this for years, it worked well (2.0.33 I think). Then I upgraded it to a P133/64Mb (2.2.16) and the performance improvement was amazing. My users loved me. Lag from external access dropped from an average 8 secs to around 1.5 seconds. The ISP and modem was not changed. Sure, there is some improvement with the kernel, but is that all it was? I haven't had time to test it.. Also, 486's sometimes have trouble keeping up with a 100Mb card (if you can find an ISA one?), and PCI is not an option. Cheers, Marty -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] deltree equivalent
"deltree -y c:\*.* nul" is a real joy in Windoze ;) It gets doubly entertaining when you use ANSI to remotely reprogram their keyboard assignments... map enter to this little beauty and they're completely hosed... not so difficult to do when one runs an ANSI based BBS ;) I haven't tried it for years - maybe it doesn't work on the newer versions of Doze? rm -rf * is what you're looking for. Cheers, Marty On Thursday, February 22, 2001 8:29 AM, Simon Bryan [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: Hi, Is there an equivalent in Linux to the DOS deltree, that will remove folders, files and .files without confirmation? Such a fun command on a Windows system, generally goes like: cd / deltree * Oh S***T! Simon Bryan IT Manager OLMC Parramatta http://www.olmc.nsw.edu.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] deltree equivalent OK
We are a shop front, and have technical guys. We have had technical guys format systems, totaly kill customers hardware etc. They always seem to be part timers who do is.. Ive been in this company almost 2 years, and have never really had a need to format a customers HDD, unless it was totaly wasted, and I had no choice! And the customer knows what will happen etc. I always do a backup anyways, copy all the working files to another HDD and then format. I will then put the data back in a temp folder for the customer, So they can get back pictrues, data etc that they require. This seems to please most customers. Regards, Alan Lee - Original Message - From: "Simon Bryan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [SLUG] deltree equivalent OK Thanks everyone got that! Now let me see, cd / rm -rf * find new job :-) Actually had a friend that on his first day in tech support, did do a deltree in the root directory of the bosses computer! Fortunately they did have data backups. I think he did it at about 2pm and went home about 3am and was back at work looking like nothing had happened at 8am the next day. Since this was a fresh install of everything, the system actually ran better, no fragmented files etc. The boss, unaware of the process, thanked him for 'tuning up' his system. At 08:28 22/02/2001, you wrote: Hi, Is there an equivalent in Linux to the DOS deltree, that will remove folders, files and .files without confirmation? Such a fun command on a Windows system, generally goes like: cd / deltree * Oh S***T! Simon Bryan IT Manager OLMC Parramatta http://www.olmc.nsw.edu.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug Simon Bryan IT Manager OLMC Parramatta http://www.olmc.nsw.edu.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Hardware recommendation
quote who="Nicholas Lawrence" 1. An Asus board with an onboard Realtek 8139. 2. An Aopen board with an onboard Intel 82559. Onboard? Run away, run away! I highly recommend having as much off the motherboard as you can - they always come back to bite later anyway. A network interface is less of a problem than a sound card or whatever, but it's always good to be able to pull out a problem. :) I noted in my research that the Realtek is not rated very highly for performance but appears well-supported. Excellent summary. :) The Intel 82559 is supposed to be very good for both speed and support but a few notes in linux-kernel August last year suggested problems with 2.4pre recognising onboard variants. There didn't seem to be any followup after that. That's fixed in Donald Becker's drivers that you can find on scyld.com, only for 2.2 kernels (which you ought to be running on a machine such as this). We run one of these in our web server - no problems so far. The big problem when I installed it was having it on a shared PCI slot. Bad. 1. Is anyone having problems with 1 or 2 8139 cards in the same machine? No, they seem to be okay. 2. The Intel seems to be a very popular choice - would it be worth investing in (I know worth is relative but the difference is 128meg of ram g). It sounds like you're overspeccing your firewall... So, probably not worth it when you can run it acceptably on something (quite a bit) less expensive. - Jeff -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- Two words: Japanese technofetishism. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] deltree equivalent OK
Thanks everyone got that! Now let me see, cd / rm -rf * find new job :-) Actually had a friend that on his first day in tech support, did do a deltree in the root directory of the bosses computer! Fortunately they did have data backups. I think he did it at about 2pm and went home about 3am and was back at work looking like nothing had happened at 8am the next day. Since this was a fresh install of everything, the system actually ran better, no fragmented files etc. The boss, unaware of the process, thanked him for 'tuning up' his system. At 08:28 22/02/2001, you wrote: Hi, Is there an equivalent in Linux to the DOS deltree, that will remove folders, files and .files without confirmation? Such a fun command on a Windows system, generally goes like: cd / deltree * Oh S***T! Simon Bryan IT Manager OLMC Parramatta http://www.olmc.nsw.edu.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug Simon Bryan IT Manager OLMC Parramatta http://www.olmc.nsw.edu.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Email Programs
On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 01:29:22AM +1100, James Wilkinson wrote: This one time, at band camp, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Now, if I could get the MAILER without all the browser- crap overhead, I'd be interested You pretty much need a browser these days, though, so that you can read the text/html mail that the spammers send... (Well, at least the folks at my office (or perhaps MS) have realised that the old "Use Word to edit mail", and therefore have all mail arrive as Word documents, isn't such a good idea...) I haven't been seeing too many MS-TENF attachments lately either. Praise! Damn, and all I want is BROWSER without all the mailer/newsreader/irc crap overhead ;) Galeon and Konquerer seem to be shaping up to be that. Haven't used Konq myself, but do keep an eye on Galeon. Really, I doubt that it's the mailer/newsreader stuff that makes Mozilla slow. It's that the entire UI (buttons, frames, panes and all) is implemented in DHTML, aka JavaScript... Galeon replaces that crap with compiled GTK, and it's reasonably snappy. -- Andrew -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] deltree equivalent
Yep, equivalent is: cd / rm -rf * Oh S***T! //umar. Hi, Is there an equivalent in Linux to the DOS deltree, that will remove folders, files and .files without confirmation? Such a fun command on a Windows system, generally goes like: cd / deltree * Oh S***T! -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] deltree equivalent
On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 08:28:52AM +1100, Simon Bryan wrote: Is there an equivalent in Linux to the DOS deltree, that will remove folders, files and .files without confirmation? Such a fun command on a Windows system, generally goes like: cd / deltree * Oh S***T! rm -rf whatever eg: rm -rf /my_directory Do it to / and watch your system expire ;) Paul Haddon Technical Services Manager Hartingdale Internet -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Wierdness - or maybe I need sleep
On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 11:24:42PM +1100, Jon Biddell wrote: Assume we have two machines, A and B, running the same version of Linux. A is a workstation, B is a server (with Samba share for the Mrs) On A, user 1 has a UID of 500, user 2 has a UID of 501 On B, user 1 has a UID of 501, user 2 has a UID of 500 When user 1 goes to B:/home/user1, all files are owned by user1:users. When you TELNET to B from A, user1's files are suddenly owned by user2 ? Que ?? I didn't think UID's mattered across NFS mounts ? This is your first mention of NFS. Are you really using NFS (which passes numerical UIDs between machines, on the assumption that they're in an NIS-controlled domain) or are you using Samba (SMB), as described in the first paragraph? SMB doesn't do user IDs on files at all, but the SMBFS will say that everything belongs to the user, or whatever you tell it when you mount the drive. Telnet isn't a fill access mechanism, but it identifies the user to the other machine with a text user name (during login), and so the remote machine is doing the name-UID lookup. -- Andrew -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Hardware recommendation
On Thursday, February 22, 2001 8:39 AM, Dave Fitch [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 12:15:25PM -0800, Nicholas Lawrence wrote: Apologies for the long-winded post - I guess my question boils down to: 1. Is anyone having problems with 1 or 2 8139 cards in the same machine? 2. The Intel seems to be a very popular choice - would it be worth investing in (I know worth is relative but the difference is 128meg of ram g). you may have read my recent posts on problems getting a Dlink DFE-530TX card to work, well I swapped it for a RealTek 8139 card (brand is "skymaster") and that works great (auto-detected etc in esmith 4.1 (based on RH7)). I've no idea of performance but it works for me. Dave. To second the motion, I have had some intermittent problems with the intel 82559. On a Slackware 7.1 box, it seemed to work fine for a week or more but would occasionally dump the interface with errors similar to RX buffer not available TX buffer not available Rebooting (eek!) was necessary to bring it back on line. It might have been a driver issue... but I would have thought 7.1 would be fairly up to date... Anyways I ripped it out and threw in a cheapy Netgear which is doing very well. ;) Cheers, Marty -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Hardware recommendation
Hi, Firstly is this box to be used only as a firewall, or will it be doing other duties. If It's only going to be you connection to cable and ip masq etc I would even bother spending big bucks on new PIII/Athlon boards, PCI cards, 128 MB ram. Here's me fire wall config: Intel 486 DX 2 66, (over powered btw) 32 MB (once again overkill) 2 Intel Ether Express isa Cards 1 Floppy Router, there are many option in this area eg: LRP, FloppFW, FreeSco etc etc. On to the main question, I've been using DEC 21140 (I think that's the number) W/O any problems at all, These cards are quite affordable (around $50.00 for PCI) and work really well. In case your interested I managed to ftp binary files across two of these cards on a 100 Mb Hub at 4.5 MBytes/sec not bad considering the SCSI disks were UW and rated at 40 Mbits/Sec. Original Message: - From: Nicholas Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:15:25 -0800 (PST) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [SLUG] Hardware recommendation Hi all, /de-lurk I'm putting together a new Linux firewall box for bigpond cable and am having fun trying to decide between two motherboards. Doing the relevant googling and archive searches, I have ended up with two choices: 1. An Asus board with an onboard Realtek 8139. 2. An Aopen board with an onboard Intel 82559. The case I'm going to use requires a half-height NIC which will be another 8139. I noted in my research that the Realtek is not rated very highly for performance but appears well-supported. The Intel 82559 is supposed to be very good for both speed and support but a few notes in linux-kernel August last year suggested problems with 2.4pre recognising onboard variants. There didn't seem to be any followup after that. For background - the addon card would be plugged into the cable modem, the onboard into a 100 switch. I know that the Aopen board would be the better buy but: 1. An additional $100+ 2. The Asus board has a nice connector for a front monitoring panel. Apologies for the long-winded post - I guess my question boils down to: 1. Is anyone having problems with 1 or 2 8139 cards in the same machine? 2. The Intel seems to be a very popular choice - would it be worth investing in (I know worth is relative but the difference is 128meg of ram g). Thanks for your help. /re-lurk Nicholas __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug Mail2Web - Check your email from the web at http://www.mail2web.com/ . -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] deltree equivalent
On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Simon Bryan wrote: Is there an equivalent in Linux to the DOS deltree, that will remove folders, files and .files without confirmation? Such a fun command on a Windows system, generally goes like: cd / deltree * Oh S***T! Warning - use the following command at your own risk. I am not responsible if you completely fsck your system doing so. cd / rm -rf * Oh S**T! Actually, this most likely won't blow away your entire system - but it will almost irrepairably damage it. It'll delete every file until you hit the rm executable - and once it deletes that, the process will stop - but by then, your system will be hosed. You can, of course, use this in other directories than the root of your system tree. DaZZa -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Hardware recommendation
On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 12:15:25PM -0800, Nicholas Lawrence wrote: Apologies for the long-winded post - I guess my question boils down to: 1. Is anyone having problems with 1 or 2 8139 cards in the same machine? 2. The Intel seems to be a very popular choice - would it be worth investing in (I know worth is relative but the difference is 128meg of ram g). you may have read my recent posts on problems getting a Dlink DFE-530TX card to work, well I swapped it for a RealTek 8139 card (brand is "skymaster") and that works great (auto-detected etc in esmith 4.1 (based on RH7)). I've no idea of performance but it works for me. Dave. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] deltree equivalent
Hi, Is there an equivalent in Linux to the DOS deltree, that will remove folders, files and .files without confirmation? Such a fun command on a Windows system, generally goes like: cd / deltree * Oh S***T! Simon Bryan IT Manager OLMC Parramatta http://www.olmc.nsw.edu.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: Konqueror/Mozilla (was Re: [SLUG] Email Programs)
Does anybody else have problems with the supplied Mozilla binaries? Could my problems be due to Mozilla being compiled on (I guess) a RedHat box and the little incompatibilities between distros? When will the Debian package be updated? Grrr... I'm not happy with Mozilla. I have just installed Mozilla 0.8 from the binaries on my Debian Woody (with a bit of Sid) machine and although it's early days yet it seems terrific so far. If I run into problems I will post them but if you don't hear from me assume all is well. The rest is silence.. -- David "I wish I knew now what I knew then." -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Hardware recommendation
Hi all, /de-lurk I'm putting together a new Linux firewall box for bigpond cable and am having fun trying to decide between two motherboards. Doing the relevant googling and archive searches, I have ended up with two choices: 1. An Asus board with an onboard Realtek 8139. 2. An Aopen board with an onboard Intel 82559. The case I'm going to use requires a half-height NIC which will be another 8139. I noted in my research that the Realtek is not rated very highly for performance but appears well-supported. The Intel 82559 is supposed to be very good for both speed and support but a few notes in linux-kernel August last year suggested problems with 2.4pre recognising onboard variants. There didn't seem to be any followup after that. For background - the addon card would be plugged into the cable modem, the onboard into a 100 switch. I know that the Aopen board would be the better buy but: 1. An additional $100+ 2. The Asus board has a nice connector for a front monitoring panel. Apologies for the long-winded post - I guess my question boils down to: 1. Is anyone having problems with 1 or 2 8139 cards in the same machine? 2. The Intel seems to be a very popular choice - would it be worth investing in (I know worth is relative but the difference is 128meg of ram g). Thanks for your help. /re-lurk Nicholas __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Îáðàùàþñü ê Âàì ñ ïðîñüáîé ïîìî÷ü ìíå â ïðèîáðåòåíèè ëåêàðñòâà
Title: Îáðàùàþñü ê Âàì ñ ïðîñüáîé ïîìî÷ü ìíå â ïðèîáðåòåíèè ëåêàðñòâà Óâàæàåìûå ãîñïîäà! Îáðàùàþñü ê Âàì ñ ïðîñüáîé ïîìî÷ü ìíå â ïðèîáðåòåíèè ëåêàðñòâà. Åñëè áû ýòî íå áûë âîïðîñ æèçíè è ñìåðòè, ÿ áû íèêîãäà íå ðåøèëàñü îáðàòèòüñÿ ê Âàì. Íî ýòîò ïðåïàðàò äëÿ ìåíÿ - ïîñëåäíÿÿ âîçìîæíîñòü ñîõðàíèòü æèçíü. ß èíâàëèä ïåðâîé ãðóïïû - ó ìåíÿ ðàê, ïåðåíåñëà îïåðàöèþ â îíêîöåíòðå, è ñåé÷àñ îáíàðóæåíû ìåòàñòàçû â êîñòè. Åäèíñòâåííûé ïðåïàðàò, êîòîðûé ìîæåò ïîìî÷ü - ýòî Aredia. Îí íå âêëþ÷åí â ñïèñîê áåñïëàòíûõ ëåêàðñòâ. ß îáðàùàëàñü â Êîìèòåò çäðàâîîõðàíåíèÿ ã. Êîðîëåâ è â îíêîöåíòð. Ïðåäñåäàòåëü ñêàçàë, ÷òî ñðåäñòâ íåò äàæå íà äåòåé, à î ïåíñèîíåðàõ è ãîâîðèòü íå÷åãî. Ïåíñèÿ ìàëåíüêàÿ, ðîäñòâåííèêîâ ó ìåíÿ íåò. Ñ ïîìîùüþ äðóçåé, çíàêîìûõ è äîáðûõ ëþäåé óäàëîñü ñîáðàòü äåíåã íà îäèí ìåñÿö (6 òûñÿ÷ ðóáëåé) è íà÷àòü êóðñ ëå÷åíèÿ, ò.ê. îòêëàäûâàòü áîëüøå íåëüçÿ. Íî íóæíû åùå äåíüãè, ïîýòîìó îáðàùàþñü ê Âàì ñ ïðîñüáîé î ïîìîùè. Òàê êàê äåëî êàñàåòñÿ æèçíè, òî, ìîæåò áûòü, Âû èçûùåòå âîçìîæíîñòü ïîìî÷ü äàæå íåçíàêîìîìó ÷åëîâåêó. ß, êîíå÷íî, ïîíèìàþ, ÷òî íàìíîãî ëåã÷å îêàçàòü ïîìîùü áîëüíîìó ðåáåíêó, à íå ïåíñèîíåðó. Ñåé÷àñ ìû óæå íèêîìó íå íóæíû, íî ìû òîæå ëþäè, ìû âñþ æèçíü ðàáîòàëè è íå äóìàëè, ÷òî ê ñòàðîñòè îêàæåìñÿ â òàêîé ñèòóàöèè, ÷òî ãîñóäàðñòâî îòêàæåòñÿ íàì ïîìîãàòü Òåïåðü îñòàåòñÿ íàäåÿòüñÿ òîëüêî íà äîáðûõ ëþäåé. Çàðàíåå áëàãîäàðþ çà ëþáóþ ïîìîùü. Åñëè Âû çàõîòèòå ñâÿçàòüñÿ ñî ìíîé è ïîëó÷èòü áîëåå ïîäðîáíóþ èíôîðìàöèþ îáî ìíå èëè îá èñòîðèè áîëåçíè, òî ìîé òåëåôîí: 511-94-16 Ðàñ÷åòíûé ñ÷åò: Êîðîëåâñêîå ÎÑÁ ¹ 2570/095 ÈÍÍ7707083893 ð.ñ. ¹ 3030181044604017 â Ñðåäíåðóññêîì áàíêå ñáåðáàíêà Ðîññèè ã. Ìîñêâà êîððåñïîíäåíòñêèé ñ÷åò 301018109323 ÃÐÊÖ ÃÓ ÖÁ ÐÔ ïî Ìîñêîâñêîé îáëàñòè ÁÍÊ ¹044652323 ñ÷åò ¹ 42301.810.6.4017.1512842.  áëèæàéøåå âðåìÿ ÿ áóäó ïðîõîäèòü êóðñ îáëó÷åíèÿ â îíêîöåíòðå. Ïîýòîìó åñëè Âû íå ñìîæåòå ñâÿçàòüñÿ ñî ìíîé ïî òåëåôîíó, îòïðàâüòå, ïîæàëóéñòà, èíôîðìàöèþ ìîèì çíàêîìûì íà [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Ñ áëàãîäàðíîñòüþ Ëåïåøêèíà Íåëëè Èâàíîâíà.
[SLUG] Re: Murtuza DuaL Boot?
Try to get hold of one of the Linux Pocket Books put out by APC Magazine. The subject is covered reasonably well therein. Richard -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: Konqueror/Mozilla (was Re: [SLUG] Email Programs)
Does anybody else have problems with the supplied Mozilla binaries? Could my problems be due to Mozilla being compiled on (I guess) a RedHat box and the little incompatibilities between distros? When will the Debian package be updated? Well, I have 0.7 mozilla packages from Ximian, and it works like a dream. I've not started netscape in weeks. stuff: deb http://spidermonkey.ximian.com/1.4beta1/distributions/debian unstable main in your sources.list and grab mozzy. -Thom -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Konqueror/Mozilla (was Re: [SLUG] Email Programs)
On 21 Feb 2001, Alen Stanisic wrote: I have been using Mozilla 0.7 but it was just too slow for me as my machine is quite old. So now I am looking for a new mail client and a web browser. (Planning to give Konquerer a go but not sure if it would be a problem running it on Gnome. As I understand it is a KDE app) Konqueror runs fine for me under GNOME. Only two small problems for me so far: 1. Shortly after starting it for the first time, some part of GNOME (the panel?) pops up a window saying that some program isn't responding to the "Save" (?) message and asking if I want to kill it. If I do kill "it", nothing happens. Probably some little helper program or something hanging around that GNOME doesn't like. weird. 2. I've upgraded to the latest 2.1 beta Konqueror from Debian unstable, plus whatever other dependant libs and stuff it needed (kdelibs?). It now seems to have problems showing graphics in pages. But if I do a quick back, forward after it's completed loading, they then show. Where's the KDE bug tracker? Konqueror is very nice. I like it, unlike Mozilla. Mozilla has given me no end of problems. The M18 package in debian is acceptable if you know how to work around its problems. I once downloaded a nightly build and that seemed to work a little better. I recently got the 0.8 release and it royally SUCKED! It would load up my home page incorrectly and crash after I hit reload a bunch of times trying to get it to render properly. I happened to download the "talkback" binary so I was able to send off a good half dozen bug reports with "I just tried to view my home page" descriptions in the space of a half hour :) Does anybody else have problems with the supplied Mozilla binaries? Could my problems be due to Mozilla being compiled on (I guess) a RedHat box and the little incompatibilities between distros? When will the Debian package be updated? Grrr... I'm not happy with Mozilla. -- 8888888 Ian Tester *8)# \7\LINUX: because geeks will find a way [EMAIL PROTECTED] \7\ http://www.zipworld.com.au/~imroy -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Wierdness - or maybe I need sleep
On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Jon Biddell wrote: On A, user 1 has a UID of 500, user 2 has a UID of 501 On B, user 1 has a UID of 501, user 2 has a UID of 500 I didn't think UID's mattered across NFS mounts ? Well, they do! From what I understand, only UID's are passed around with NFS. The UID=username mapping is done on each host from their local /etc/passwd. So get them UID's synched up! If you have more than 2 machines and/ore more than a few users, it might be easier to setup NIS. It was easy when I followed the instructions in the Debian nis package. bye -- 8888888 Ian Tester *8)# \7\LINUX: because geeks will find a way [EMAIL PROTECTED] \7\ http://www.zipworld.com.au/~imroy -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Win98/Linux Dual Boot Problem
I'm guessing that what you have done is create several primary partitions, and that the vfat partition is not the first primary partition. Windows is only going to want to live comfortably on the first primary partition or on an extended partition. Rather than worry about this most people just follow Craige's advice, install Windows first on the first primary, and then install Linux, carving up whatever space you have left as your needs suggest. Still, it's not necessary, if you give windows what is wants. The other reason people often install Windows first is because it likes to overwrite the Master Boot Record (MBR) with it's own boot loader, which of course, is retarded and can't see linux. So if you do install Windows second, be /sure/ to make a boot disk, you'll need it to reboot linux and rerun lilo to rewrite the MBR. Again, it's possible to install in whatever order you like, but for your first time, probably just easier to do windows first. The last part of your problem is unusual. You may need to enter fdisk's expert mode and make sure that physical and logical adresses agree. cheers, Martin On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Murtuza Jadliwala wrote: Hi friends I was only a Win 9x user till I got to know the Power of Linux in my Office and planned to shift to linux in my Home PC. But I was not done with Windows yet since I had lot of Important data. So I decided to load a dual boot on my pc. I was plagued by the following problems 1) I partitioned my 6.4 GB hard drive using Linux fdisk as follows partition1 2000M Linux partition2 4000M win95/FAT32 partition3 139 M Linux swap After partioning I started my Win98 installation from the CDROM only to see that my c: was not accessible. I tried to format it and it says that The drive does not exist. It gives some vague errors. Basically I cannot format my Win95/FAT32 partition. Directly setting up from CDROM also doesnt work. It says the same thing that it cannot format c: Then I used Dos Fdisk to delete the existing Dos partition and created a new partition. It does not allocat the entire 4GB to the partition but only 200 MB Please help me and tell me the exact procedure for creating a Win98/Linux dual boot. -- Murtuza J Systems Engineer Investment Research and Information Services Ltd visit us at www.myiris.com This message was sent using Myiris Mail For more information visit http://mail.myiris.com -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Email Programs
This one time, at band camp, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Now, if I could get the MAILER without all the browser- crap overhead, I'd be interested Damn, and all I want is BROWSER without all the mailer/newsreader/irc crap overhead ;) -- jamesw -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Linux quietly finding its way into NZ business
http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/index/0,1008,653432a1982,FF.html Hope this is true on this side of the Tasman too. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Re: Slug M 0.8
0.8 doesn't crash when trying to access http://www.smh.com.au which 0.7 did (well at least for me). same here. Still not liking to having download the Java thingy Yeah I've tried to install the java thingy but have never succeeded. It is better than 0.7 and far superior to Netscape 6. Well the pregnant pause before it opens any windows is painful and it gets the cursor icon out of sync all the time, but it renders pages off smh.com.au and /. sub second! My problem is I can't *send* mail using it which worked with 0.7. I can read my Imap mail just fine, but it refuses to send a message. Sure it lets me fill in all the data but when I send it it comes back with a dialog error message send failed. Even changed my outgoing smtp server but no luck, and no useful error on the terminal window, any cluesticks out there? Thanks Pete. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Email Programs
anyone know of a good client that will allow access to that damn thing called exchange and its schedules etc?? i doubt there will be but if anyone knows some alternatives would be much appreciated. thanks!! Wylie Edwards Senior Technician Central Gippsland Health Service Guthridge Pde SALE VIC 3850 Ph: +61 3 5143 8493 Fax : +61 3 5143 8439 Mobile : 0409 854 686 ICQ : 6309168 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James Wilkinson Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2001 11:53 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SLUG] Email Programs This one time, at band camp, Andrew Reilly said: Galeon and Konquerer seem to be shaping up to be that. Haven't used Konq myself, but do keep an eye on Galeon. I've been using galeon, I like it, but the dependency on (at least in debian) having mozilla installed is a pain (in my fantasy utopia, i only have one browser on my machine) Really, I doubt that it's the mailer/newsreader stuff that makes Mozilla slow. It's that the entire UI (buttons, frames, panes and all) is implemented in DHTML, aka JavaScript... Galeon replaces that crap with compiled GTK, and it's reasonably snappy. Yeah, i'm well aware that it's not the extra bits making it slow, but it makes it *big*. Reimplementing the UI was a bad choice, imho. mozilla on my system has a footprint of 25% system RAM, and it's clunky. Preaching to the converted, i know... I'm just going to go write my own browser, it's the only way to get anything you want these days ;) -- jamesw -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Email Programs
On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 12:57:42PM +1100, Wylie Edwards wrote: anyone know of a good client that will allow access to that damn thing called exchange and its schedules etc?? i doubt there will be but if anyone knows some alternatives would be much appreciated. Can't help with the schedules issue (but very interested if anyone else knows of such a thing.) For mail, though, exchange can speak IMAP, which is a standard. Fetchmail can speak IMAP, and stuff the resulting messages into your local mail spool, from whence you can do what you like with them. Alternatively, mail user agents (MUAs) that I know of that speak to IMAP servers directly include: netscape-communicator, mozilla, tkrat and pine. Mozilla (used to) has some bugs with IMAP, but it's getting there... -- Andrew -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: Konqueror/Mozilla (was Re: [SLUG] Email Programs)
This one time, at band camp, Ian Tester said: When will the Debian package be updated? Don't know, but this method worked for me (a bit messy, but it worked): point old browser at http://archives.progeny.com follow the links to the mozilla debs dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/web/ iirc get mozilla-whatever.deb and browser-common-*.deb go up, and into the libs directory get libnspr-blah.deb become root, dpkg -i *.deb that you've just downloaded It's more stable than any other browser i've played with in a while, even if it is a big fat memory whore. Low centre of gravity, I guess. -- jamesw -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Email Programs
This one time, at band camp, Andrew Reilly said: Galeon and Konquerer seem to be shaping up to be that. Haven't used Konq myself, but do keep an eye on Galeon. I've been using galeon, I like it, but the dependency on (at least in debian) having mozilla installed is a pain (in my fantasy utopia, i only have one browser on my machine) Really, I doubt that it's the mailer/newsreader stuff that makes Mozilla slow. It's that the entire UI (buttons, frames, panes and all) is implemented in DHTML, aka JavaScript... Galeon replaces that crap with compiled GTK, and it's reasonably snappy. Yeah, i'm well aware that it's not the extra bits making it slow, but it makes it *big*. Reimplementing the UI was a bad choice, imho. mozilla on my system has a footprint of 25% system RAM, and it's clunky. Preaching to the converted, i know... I'm just going to go write my own browser, it's the only way to get anything you want these days ;) -- jamesw -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Firewall with 3 x NIC's
This may be a dumb idea I have an internal (192.168.0..) network and an external on a 128k ISDN Firewalled with ipchains on RH7. I have just been connected with an ADSL line. I would like this to be used for outgoing port 80 browsing etc only and use the 128k ISDN for incoming port forwards of web requests, smtp etc.. I have managed to get the ADSL line working on my RH7 test box (no thanks to Telstra who would only install in a M$ machine with no existing NIC) Is it possible to set my ipchains firewall up to support this type of config on one machine with 3 NIC's? Regards, * Chris Stokes Senior Systems Consultant Bass Software [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] dlink card doesn't work
Title: Re: [SLUG] dlink card doesn't work Maybe this should be a FAQ? :-) http://slug.org.au/lists/archives/slug/2000/October/msg00359.html and http://slug.org.au/lists/archives/slug/2000/October/msg00388.html In a nutshell, grab new drivers from www.scyld.com. Last I checked, they were only available as RPMs or tarballs, so you'll need to compile them from source. Once they're going, I've found them to be pretty good cards. I'm leaning towards them a little more since finding out that the tulip driver for my Netgear FA310tx doesn't do the cool zero-copy stuff. Cheers, Peter
Re: [SLUG] LDP Weekly news + Document Reviews
quote who="Jeff Waugh" Extract: I managed to leave out the fact that this was from the section on the LDP Document Review. - Jeff -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- I must be getting old... Buying toothpaste with gel in it is no longer an Absolute Necessity. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] LDP Weekly news + Document Reviews
LDP Weekly News: http://lwn.net/daily/ldp-20010221.php3 Extract: "This is obviously a very big job, and it will require expertise in many different disciplines. If you've ever complained that Linux documentation isn't up to the same quality standards as commercial products, then this is your chance to change that situation. Write to David Merrill at [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more information about how you can help." Very worthy. - Jeff [ A one-line-link post with an extract! Phwoar! ;) ] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- "The ability to procrastinate is what separates us from the machines." - Chris Gregory, Desktop Magazine -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] BASH scripting help needed
G'day all, I'm trying to write a script that will be executed by crontab every 5 mins... Here is what I have so far... [ -f /var/run/nologin ] exit #This checks to see if a Shutdown is in progress[ -f /usr/berger/berger.tar.gz ] exitrm /usr/berger/isdirempty.filemv /usr/berger/tmp/* /usr/berger/tfr/ 1/usr/berger/isdirempty.file 2/usr/berger/isdirempty.file[ -s /usr/berger/isdirempty ] exit[ -s /usr/berger/error.log ] mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] /usr/berger/SCRIPT.ERRORScd /usr/berger/tfrtar -cvf ./berger.tar ./*gzip ./berger.tar 1/usr/berger/error.log 2/usr/berger/error.log[ -s /usr/berger/error.log ] exitmv /usr/berger/tfr/berger.tar.gz /usr/berger/ 1/usr/berger/error.log 2/usr/berger/error.log[ -s /usr/berger/error.log ] exitmv /usr/berger/tfr/* /usr/berger/backup/ 1/usr/berger/error.log 2/usr/berger/error.log This is what the script need to do: 1. Exit script if shutdown is initiated 2. Exit if the berger.tar.gz file has not been collected deleted (from remote pc) 3. If no files have been created and placed in /usr/berger/tmp then exit script 4. If an error is recorded in error.log then email me and exit until it is cleared from the error.log 5. tar and zip up files in /usr/berger/tfr directory - output any errors to error.log 6. mv berger.tar.gz to /usr/berger for collection by remote pc. I have had a few pointers from a few people, and mushed them together in to the script above. Could you please advise on improvements to this, as I think it still is not 100% Note: (I need to do this as a BASH shell script), I know a few of you Perl guru's may be disapointed, but that's just the way it is...this time anywho :-). Thanks for you time!! Jason Ward
Re: [SLUG] Email Programs
quote who="Andrew Reilly" Can't help with the schedules issue (but very interested if anyone else knows of such a thing.) No, this is a black hole in Free Software land. But you can replace Exchange on NT with HP OpenMail on Linux. :) It's not Free Software though. Reefknot is an in-development calendaring framework, supported now by e-smith (Skud went to work for them, asked if they liked the idea, and as if they were going to knock it back): http://reefknot.sourceforge.net/ I'm sure someone will develop and Exchange interface for it. Quite likely someone as brilliant and nutty as Luke Leighton (ex-Samba hacker who has talked about doing this for a while). For mail, though, exchange can speak IMAP, which is a standard. Fetchmail can speak IMAP, and stuff the resulting messages into your local mail spool, from whence you can do what you like with them. If you're happy with using Maildir, have a look at isync - by the author of mutt. http://www.isync.org/ (I think.) Alternatively, mail user agents (MUAs) that I know of that speak to IMAP servers directly include: netscape-communicator, mozilla, tkrat and pine. Mozilla (used to) has some bugs with IMAP, but it's getting there... Plus mutt and Evolution. :) - Jeff -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- She said she loved my mind, though by most accounts I had already lost it. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Email Programs
Exchange can also talk pop and smtp. Im using it now with moz ;) Dean Andrew Reilly wrote: On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 12:57:42PM +1100, Wylie Edwards wrote: anyone know of a good client that will allow access to that damn thing called exchange and its schedules etc?? i doubt there will be but if anyone knows some alternatives would be much appreciated. Can't help with the schedules issue (but very interested if anyone else knows of such a thing.) For mail, though, exchange can speak IMAP, which is a standard. Fetchmail can speak IMAP, and stuff the resulting messages into your local mail spool, from whence you can do what you like with them. Alternatively, mail user agents (MUAs) that I know of that speak to IMAP servers directly include: netscape-communicator, mozilla, tkrat and pine. Mozilla (used to) has some bugs with IMAP, but it's getting there... -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Firewall with 3 x NIC's
Search for a copy of source-address-routing howto or mini-howto.. you'll need to use iproute2 for the stuff you want to do. At home I have 2 ppp links, and the machines behind NAT, use the cheaper unlimited ppp link, while my subnet based machines use the perm expensive modem :P Good luck :P This may be a dumb idea I have an internal (192.168.0..) network and an external on a 128k ISDN Firewalled with ipchains on RH7. I have just been connected with an ADSL line. I would like this to be used for outgoing port 80 browsing etc only and use the 128k ISDN for incoming port forwards of web requests, smtp etc.. I have managed to get the ADSL line working on my RH7 test box (no thanks to Telstra who would only install in a M$ machine with no existing NIC) Is it possible to set my ipchains firewall up to support this type of config on one machine with 3 NIC's? Regards, * Chris Stokes Senior Systems Consultant Bass Software [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Firewall with 3 x NIC's
Its not unreasonable on telstras behalf. I dont think its possible for them to support every OS And windows (mr defacto standard) comes in a million forms is bad enough. Messing with windows networking is 'fine' 90% of the time. But some times it really does end in tears. They dont support modems at all, look at it that way. Anyway its not a hard set up. Set your default route as your adsl line, and point your dns settings to your isdn IP. Pretty simple really. Dean Chris Stokes wrote: This may be a dumb idea I have an internal (192.168.0..) network and an external on a 128k ISDN Firewalled with ipchains on RH7. I have just been connected with an ADSL line. I would like this to be used for outgoing port 80 browsing etc only and use the 128k ISDN for incoming port forwards of web requests, smtp etc.. I have managed to get the ADSL line working on my RH7 test box (no thanks to Telstra who would only install in a M$ machine with no existing NIC) Is it possible to set my ipchains firewall up to support this type of config on one machine with 3 NIC's? Regards, * Chris Stokes Senior Systems Consultant Bass Software [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] GNU Co-operative in Sydney?
[From long-time lurker, infrequent poster:] A posting on kuro5hin has triggered various fevered imaginings in my unstable mind: http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystorysid=2001/2/21/19441/2905 It's a followup story on Spindl3top, the GNU co-operative in Cambridge, Mass. A comment I posted (http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=commentssid=2001/2/21/19441/2905cid=6#6), really just a shameless plug for my union (Join the IWW! It's great!), got me wondering... Could we not have a GNU co-operative in Sydney? It so happens that I'm involved in a couple of things that could act as a springboard to get this going. The way I see it is slightly different to the setup at Spindl3top. Basically if the business is structured as a worker-run co-op, we avoid a lot of the overheads involved in a for-profit business (as well as generating a nice, warm, fuzzy feeling among subversives like me). Unlike Spindl3top, who can count on enough people affording shiny new hardware for their free software systems, we can source the hardware from the tons of pentiums corporations are now flinging out, and subsequently find a lot more people who can afford our systems and associated services. The big uncertainty is are enough people interested in getting involved? So if you're unemployed, a student needing real-world experience, burnt out, or otherwise fed up, and (crucially) don't need wheelbarrows full of cash eash week to survive, please read the K5 posting for more details and get back to me if you're interested. Here's hoping I've caught some people during a particularly bad day at the office. Matthew. - Industrial Workers of the World - (x350 253 / 00-1502) -- Join the One Big Union! -- http://www.iww.org --- - Software should not have owners -- http://www.gnu.org --- - Use Debian GNU/Linux -- - http://www.debian.org - - -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] another opinion, by LWN, on the Allchin FUD
http://lwn.net/bigpage.php3 Summary: M$ goal is not to try to outlaw free software but to try head off government support for free software. Fix: do "a better job of talking to policymakers". Something badly needed here too. Note, communication not raw advocacy. Or speculation. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] More on Allchin's comments about open source
Ugh, this thread... ;) quote who="Stuart Cooper" 1+2+3 = Microsoft Linux(TM): a non-GPL non-free proprietary derived work featuring embrace and extend specials for the Intel platform. The education campaign can mention that MacOS X did it with BSD software. "Do not attribute to malice..." Why wouldn't they just do the same as Apple? Easier than trying to battle the GPL. Microsoft don't need Linux. They need to destroy it. To embrace a competing technology - that they can't remake in their image - would have them lose face. Watch how their marketing has changed recently: "Business runs better on Microsoft." Just about all of our (read: the 'allies') articles about Allchin's comments mentioned the Ghandi quote so popular in the Free Software community. Whilst it *is* a brilliant quote, it assumes a happy ending. The quote in my sig is a lot more realistic. - Jeff -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://lazarus.aphid.net/ -- "Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet, Spaceballs No, no, no... Not that one... "Everyone says they like Free Software - not everyone is ready to make the tough choices to make it happen." - Maciej Stachowiak, GNOME Hacker *That* one. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] More on Allchin's comments about open source
Seems it's not open source per se he thinks is against the American way etc, but is more concerned about the GPL - the 'infectious' bit, paragraph 2B "You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License." This is what will stifle innovation, apparently because anybody who adds to/uses GPLed code has to make the source available to everybody else. He (or at least the MS spindoctors) likes the BSD license better. This got me thinking about Microsoft's motives. Consider this for a conspiracy theory: 1) They just bought out Corel (subject to regulatory approval) who have their own well-advertised version of Linux 2) They are under pressure from Linux and are encouraged to port their applications to Linux or otherwise respond to the Linux phenomenon 3) They start to moan about the GPL being "un-American"; maybe a BSD style license that allows proprietary derived works would be more acceptable to US legislators after a suitable "education" campaign. 1+2+3 = Microsoft Linux(TM): a non-GPL non-free proprietary derived work featuring embrace and extend specials for the Intel platform. The education campaign can mention that MacOS X did it with BSD software. You heard it here first. Stuart. -- "Starting Java" - the two most feared words on the Internet. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
