[SLUG] Mutt Basics

[Matt -]

Hi group,

I am looking for a brief introduction to Mutt, I
have searched for a few guides on the internet
but am actually still having trouble finding out
how to specify my mail servers. I actually find
it a little strange that many program options
are set up from the shell using "environment
variables", for example for rtin:

NNTPSERVER='news.xyz.com'
export NNTPSERVER

Why aren't these options available from within
rtin/mutt ? It seems like strange practice .. :)

I also don't understand the local mail server
concept. Is it true that it's common practice to
have a mail server on my system constantly receive
mail and then offer it to my email programs - it
seems like most email programs want to check "local
mail" by default".


Matt

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Re: [SLUG] Mutt Basics

[Damien Elmes]

"Matt -" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi group,
> 
> I am looking for a brief introduction to Mutt, I
> have searched for a few guides on the internet
> but am actually still having trouble finding out
> how to specify my mail servers. I actually find
> it a little strange that many program options
> are set up from the shell using "environment
> variables", for example for rtin:
> 
> NNTPSERVER='news.xyz.com'
> export NNTPSERVER
> 
> Why aren't these options available from within
> rtin/mutt ? It seems like strange practice .. :)

other apps also use these env vars - hence not having to set them all
over the place.

> 
> I also don't understand the local mail server
> concept. Is it true that it's common practice to
> have a mail server on my system constantly receive
> mail and then offer it to my email programs - it
> seems like most email programs want to check "local
> mail" by default".

mutt can have POP support built in, but the standard practise is to
use a tool like fetchmail to retrieve the mail to your local machine
first. mutt then checks somewhere like /var/spool/mail. 

sending mail requires you run a SMTP server (something simple like
ssmtpd which does nothing other than forward to your ISP's mail server
should be fine).

when you use a more "user friendly" tool like netscape or evolution,
they have a built in simple SMTP server for  delivering mail to your
ISP, and built in POP support for checking mail.

cheers!

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Re: [SLUG] Christmas Party - Date Change and Finalised Info

[Jon Biddell]

On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:37, Craige McWhirter wrote:
> All the details are here:
>
> http://slug.org.au/xmas/
>
> Note it is now on Sunday the 9th. The picnic is in a fantastic spot
> and if the weather is kind it'll be a great day. Hope to see you all
> there.

Craige (et al),

Is the new location "K9 friendly" ?  We have 2 x Maltese Terrors who 
are Penguin-friendly...:-)

SWMBO, SWMBO/IT and I should be coming, and will have two spare seats 
(4 if I put the rear ones back in !!) if anyone from Windsor/Richmond 
-> Castle Hill -> Pennant Hills -> Chatswood needs transport.

Contact me off-list to arrange.

Jon

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Re: [SLUG] Christmas Party - Date Change and Finalised Info

[Craige McWhirter]

On Tue, 2001-11-27 at 20:05, Jon Biddell wrote:

> > http://slug.org.au/xmas/

> Is the new location "K9 friendly" ?  We have 2 x Maltese Terrors who 
> are Penguin-friendly...:-)

Unknown. It is a National Park so I'd hazard a "no". For the best
answer, contact NPWS and ask about that section of the park :)
 
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Re: [SLUG] dead video?

[Grant Parnell]

On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, David wrote:

> I've lost my screen (RH6) and suspect a dead video card. Is there a way of
> checking remotely whether it's that or something else? All processes seem
> to be working ok, and I don't really want to re-boot if I can avoid it.

Sometimes unloading & reloading of hardware modules can achieve something 
close to a reset. It's worked for me a number of times with network cards. 
At the very least it should let you know whether the kernel can talk to 
the device, possibly in /var/log/messages. On the other hand, there may be 
issues with trying to remove a module that's in use. Maybe kill off the 
'tty' processes (including commenting out of /etc/inittab) to cure that.

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Re: [SLUG] problem with locating eth0 module.

[Grant Parnell]

On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Sule Yildirim wrote:

> 
> Hello,
> I was using eth0 without problems. Recently I compiled my kernel and I
> couldn't use eth0 again. Then I run the kernel with the old image. However
> it can't also use eth0. When I was powering down, it said "can't locate
> module eth0". I select dhcp option from linux conf. I use mandrake 8.0. I
> try to connect from amndrake control center but it doesn't help me. Can
> you please help me?
> Thanks.
> Sule

Sounds like you've mashed your modules directory. A lot of the kernel 
compiling howto's forget to mention you need to move your existing 
/lib/modules/ out of the way when recompiling the same 
version with different options. Since you can't go back to the old one you 
might as well move the above directory out of the way and try make 
modules-install again. 

Either way have a look in /lib/modules//drivers/net or 
similar for your network card's module then try "insmod driver.o" from in 
the directory.

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Re: [SLUG] BIOS upgrade (OT... a bit)

[Grant Parnell]

On 22 Nov 2001, Damien Elmes wrote:

> 
> Jeffrey Borg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > couldn't you just make it smaller in the bios and go and install linux on
> > it anyway
> > 
> > like my laptop 12gb disk windoze only see's 8gb and it's only in the 1st
> > 2gb only anyway. Linux on the rest works fine. Linux dosen't care about
> > broken bios'es! Heck it dosen't even use it!
> 
> my bios would freeze on POST with a 40gb drive until i upgraded it.
> fortunately i didn't need to increase the size of the chip in order to
> fit the updated version.

Just as an excercise I'd like to find out if manually setting the BIOS in 
advance to a non auto detect setting would fix this problem. If the 
original poster could at least try this before doing the flash upgrade I'd 
be pleased to hear from them but generally speaking an upgraded BIOS would 
be nicer.

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Re: [SLUG] Advice on coding in VI ?

[Grant Parnell]

On Fri, 23 Nov 2001, Matt - wrote:

> I have recently spent some time in learning the VI
> editor for unix and would be interested in hearing
> from some developers on some intermediate to advanced
> key combinations for increasing speed ? Perhaps you
> have seen a common feature missed by VI newbies.

Delete up until matching line. 
==
You've found the need to delete a chunk of stuff, mark the beginning with
some unique code word (I use 'gloop' for instance) skim through till the
end and do "d?gloop" to delete backwards until a line with gloop is found.

Code block indent
=
If you've got a bracketed segment of code for instance in perl I might  
have this...

open (CFG,"<$configfile") || die "Can't open $configfile\n";
my @configs = ;
close(CFG);
foreach (@configs,@ARGV)
{
if(!/^#/ && !/^$/ && /=/)
{
chomp();
my ($lv,$rv) = split(/=/,$_,2);
$lv = trim($lv);
$rv = trim($rv);
$_=$lv;
# lots of other code deleted for this excercise
}
}
then I realise it should be in a subroutine and I like my subroutines 
indented. I'd simply add a forward brace at the beginning, one at the end 
then with the cursor on say the bottom one I'd do this ">[{<<]}<<" That's 
indent right, find matching left brace, then move the top brace back one 
indent, find matching right brace, move that back one indent.

Basically, applying delete, yank, indent to some form of navigation, 
whether it be a search or matching bracket. You can equally well grab 20 
lines by doing "20yy" or "y19j".

Manually doing a change to a bunch of files.
===
vi *.h
/boguscode
cwgoodcode:wnncwgoodcode:wn...
First line obviously specifies a bunch of files to edit
2nd line does a search
cw is 'change word'
:wn is write file, next file
Search is still in memory so you can just do "n" to find next.

Adding a long line of '=' signs
===
70i=

You know how confusing this is using Pico in pine for email documenting vi 
commands.. I keep going to use vi commands in pico.

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Re: [SLUG] Multiple NICS under Linux

[Grant Parnell]

On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Minh Van Le wrote:

> Has anybody configured 3 or 4 nics to work under Linux ?

Should be relatively easy, I've never had the need to do more than 3 
though. It's possibly a matter of plugging in one at a time and also a bit 
of slot swapping to find out which combination works with your 
motherboard. Yes, sadly the position of the cards plays a part in the 
success.

 > 
> I'm trying to make a decision between possibly having 3 or 4 10mbit
> RealTek PCI nics (at $20 each), or purchasing the D-Link 4-Port PCIBUS
> 10/100 NIC DFE-570TX ($499.70AUD at everythinglinux.com.au).

I'm sure you can get cheap 4 port hubs for less than $100 heck I might
even trade you one myself, I need some extra ports so might go for
something bigger. I got my netgear 4 port 10M hub for $99 (that is before
we stocked them). It's a couple of years old so maybe $50 - make an offer
You'll still need to get a couple of network cards though.

> Also afaik there're problems with the NetGear FA311s with 2.4.x ? and
> people have suggested use of FA310s instead. Is this true ?

The FA310 uses the tulip chipset (no probs from RH6.2 up), the FA311 uses 
the natsemi chipset which wasn't supported in RH till 7.1 but can easily 
be dealt with by going to www.scyld.com (Donald Becker's site) for the 
latest network driver kits.

> What's the difference between OEM and Retail pricing ? It seems to me
> that OEM labeled hardware are cheaper than Retail labeled hardware. The
> retail FA310 are $50.80, and OEM are $35.00 as advertised from
> everythinglinux.com.au.

Literally OEM is "Original Equipment Manufacturer" ie it's meant to be for 
people building complete systems for onward sale. It is assumed you know 
what you're doing and don't need the manuals and silly "bundle" deals. EG 
with a CD writer you might get a number of CD writing utilities that 
"normally cost 100's of dollars but all for free" bundled in. The catch is 
it's usually all Windows software so apart from the manuals there's not 
much difference.

We do get Windows people buying from EverythingLinux who can appreciate 
the retail box. Oh, in case you haven't worked it out I work in the same 
office.

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Re: [SLUG] BIOS upgrade (OT... a bit)

[Damien Elmes]

Grant Parnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On 22 Nov 2001, Damien Elmes wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Jeffrey Borg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 
> > > couldn't you just make it smaller in the bios and go and install linux on
> > > it anyway
> > > 
> > > like my laptop 12gb disk windoze only see's 8gb and it's only in the 1st
> > > 2gb only anyway. Linux on the rest works fine. Linux dosen't care about
> > > broken bios'es! Heck it dosen't even use it!
> > 
> > my bios would freeze on POST with a 40gb drive until i upgraded it.
> > fortunately i didn't need to increase the size of the chip in order to
> > fit the updated version.
> 
> Just as an excercise I'd like to find out if manually setting the BIOS in 
> advance to a non auto detect setting would fix this problem. If the 
> original poster could at least try this before doing the flash upgrade I'd 
> be pleased to hear from them but generally speaking an upgraded BIOS would 
> be nicer.

pretty sure i tried that, no luck. but it was about a year ago, so
don't trust me on that. :-)

cheers!

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [SLUG] Advice on coding in VI ?

[Martin]

$author = "Grant Parnell" ;
> 
> Manually doing a change to a bunch of files.
> ===
> vi *.h
> /boguscode
> cwgoodcode:wnncwgoodcode:wn...

actually, save yourself a bit of typing and use the '.' shortcut

vi *.h
/boguscode
cwgoodcode:wnn.:wn

> You know how confusing this is using Pico in pine for email documenting vi 
> commands.. I keep going to use vi commands in pico.

so switch to something **cough** mutt **cough** that can use vi...  ;)
 
marty

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Re: [SLUG] 'dummy' keyboard & monitor plugs

[Jon Biddell]

i
> As I asked yesterday, I 'm interested in using VNC to control a
> remote 'doze machine.  I would like to ship it 'headless' without
> monitor or keyboard.
>
> Is there a plug of some kind that I can use to 'fool' doze into
> believing there is a monitor etc.

I do this on several boxes at work quite successfully, but it DOES 
depend on the bios on the particular machine.

Generally, having a monitor not plugged in makes no difference. Many 
machines can have the bios set in "server"mode, which ignores the 
keyboard / mouse errors.

For those that don't give you a mouse cursor even though it's in 
"server" mode, we hack apart a M$ mouse, plug it into the PS2 port and 
then tape the guts inside the case.

Works quite well  You can also create a "dummy" plug that will 
generate the required voltage levels for a keyboard - I have done this 
on an old AT motherboard (5 pin DIN type connection), and I assume that 
a PS/2 one would work the same.

If I can dig my notes on this out of the pile of crap sitting in the 
study, I'll post them here.

Jon

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Re: [SLUG] Advice on coding in VI ?

[John Ferlito]

On Tue, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:09:31PM +1100, Martin wrote:
> $author = "Grant Parnell" ;
> 
> so switch to something **cough** mutt **cough** that can use vi...  ;)

It's been a while so I could be mistaken but if you set the EDITOR
environment varibale to vi
eg
export EDITOR=vi
won't pine use vi instead?

Although mutt is of course the correct solution :)

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Re: [SLUG] Advice on coding in VI ?

[Nick Croft]

> 
> so switch to something **cough** mutt **cough** that can use vi...  ;)

... or set the pine editor to vim ...



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Re: [SLUG] Advice on coding in VI ?

[Nick Croft]

say M for Main page
 S for setup
 C for Config
then  down 10 pages to editor=pico and 
substitute editor=vim





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[SLUG] Samba beats Win2000

[Stuart Guthrie]

Hiyall,

Just visiting Samba news and saw some recent, not mentioned on Slug, 
news (or at least I couldn't find it!).

(5th November 2001) Samba faster than Windows 2000! 


The PC Magazine  has tested W2K against Linux with 
Samba.

In all their tests Linux and Samba were faster than W2K on the same 
hardware.

http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s%253D1474%2526a%253D16554,00.asp

I have a client who has been running samba for 6 years now, it still rocks.

We worked out that it's saved them more than $90K over that time 
assuming a NT 3.51 install and one subsequent upgrade to Win 2000.
Runs on Solaris and its faast.

Open source is kool. Just like absolute zero - that's kool too. Time for 
sleep I think.


Stuart Guthrie.



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Re: [SLUG] Multiple NICS under Linux

[Crossfire]

Bernhard Luder was once rumoured to have said:
> RTL8139 (10/100) works fine as well and costs less than $20 each.

For values of fine implying low-performance.

The PCI SMC cards that telstra give away with Bigpond Advance are
RTL8139s.  My experience has been that they do not handle heavy load
too well - IMO they're not suitable for high-performance/high-demand
environments running at 100Mps.  You're better off tracking down a
Netgear FA-310TX, or spending the extra money on a 3Com Etherlink XL
(3c905 family) or Intel EtherExpress Pro 100.

I personally use FA-310TXs and Etherlink XLs - Etherlink XLs tend to
be plentiful and you can usually purchase them fairly cheaply second
hand.  The Etherlink XL is also supported by practically everything (I
bought my Etherlink XLs because BeOS supported it, whereas it didn't
support my Etherlink III [3c509]).  The FA-310TX on the other hand was
unbeatable value when Netgear was still producing them - especially at
~AUD$40 for a new card.

My only RTL8139 in active duty is going to be replaced with a 3c905C
when I get around to it.

C.
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Re: [SLUG] Samba beats Win2000

[Jeff Waugh]

> http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s%253D1474%2526a%253D16554,00.asp

Noice. The response time chart surprised me - that's a huge gap.

I'd love to have the time to do silly tests like these. :) Perhaps next
Installfest, we should run a couple... A filesystem pressure test, maybe a
kernel test if 2.5 is looking remarkably different by then. Might be a nice
addition to the activities, seeing that Linux is far too easy to install
these days. ;)

- Jeff

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[SLUG] OT: Vector data on Sydney CBD

[Matt -]

Hi Group !

This question is a little off topic but since it is related
to computers and geographical science I might have some luck
asking the question here.

1) Has anyone used the CDROM version of the UBD Street
Directory ? I'd like to hear opinions on the format used here,
do you suppose it's vector or raster based ? This program
is on display at the two-story Dymocks store in the city,
it's pretty cool :) If it does use some kind of vector format,
I wonder how difficult it would be to decompile the data files ?
Would success here be unlikely ?

2) I am looking for simple but to-scale map of the Syndey CBD
area. A flat projection of the streets would be fantastic but a
scale model (including simple boxes for buildings) would really
be the icing on the cake ! Any ideas on finding one ?

3) I have seen one real life scale model in the Town Hall House
in the city, apparently there's another one at the Custom's House
near Sydney Cove, check them out :) I wonder if the modellers
have recorded their data on a computer ? I doubt it would be
given away for free :)

Thanks everyone, i'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts
on the topic ! :)

Matt

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Re: [SLUG] Advice on coding in VI ?

[Zhasper]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Martin wrote:

> > You know how confusing this is using Pico in pine for email documenting vi 
> > commands.. I keep going to use vi commands in pico.
> 
> so switch to something **cough** mutt **cough** that can use vi...  ;)
>  
> marty

Alternately, just learn how to use pine

setup->config->editor (it's way down near the end), give it /usr/bin/vi 
(or wherever your vi is)

you can then press ^_ in the composer and it switches to vi

Alternately, you can set the "enable-alternate-editor-implicitly" flag, 
and it will use vi automatically


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RE: [SLUG] 'dummy' keyboard & monitor plugs

[Jamie Honan]

Mehmet:

> While not completely answering your question, my Compaq KVM nicely
> handles this+situation of no keyb/mouse/video installed very nicely
> (they're pretty expensive). While a KVM isn't the answer for you the 
> theory behind it is.
 
> You may want to ask this question is aus.electronics as someone there
> may know of a product or a kit that does this.
 
> Jamie Honan demoed the his atmel keyb emulater, maybe this could be
> extened to handle mouse and video, Jamie ??

Oh. Ah. Yes I'm awake. My eyes were just resting.

I don't know too much about what doze requires, but most
modern BIOS's will boot OK with "errors" - e.g. keyboards not
plugged in.

My AVR device will certainly emulate a keyboard: replying
with the appropriate handshakes. Another way is to cut the electronics
out of an old keyboard : usually the working bits are close to where
the plug comes in.

Without a monitor : maybe just plug a video card in?

You could also try vmware, win4lin and wine. Because these
use X11, they are a better bet for networking.

--

Apropos of nothing. Have you ever had to make up an application
to application protocol? Maybe you've done things like
bolt bits of xml, perhaps a bit of http-like stuff?

A rather interesting looking set of rfc's now gives good
guidance about making up your application to application protocol.

Some useful code, a fair bit of explanation. Good provenance :
Marshall Rose.

Beep : block exchange extensible protocol.

rfc's 3080, 3081 and 3117

http://beepcore.org

"BEEP, the Application Protocol Framework

 BEEP is a turbocharger for Internet applications that offers advanced
 features such as:

 * a standard application layer that supports dynamic,
   pluggable application "profiles" (protocols)

 * peer-to-peer, client-server, or server-to-server capabilities

 * multiple channels over a single authenticated session

 * support for arbitrary MIME payloads, including XML

 * a standard layer for session management
"

Rose has a sense of humour, too.

Jamie

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[SLUG] Crontab time

[George Vieira]

Hi 
all,
 
I have a very weird 
problem which doesn't make sense to me. Here is my crontab below which 
runs at 8:50AM
50 08 * * 1-5 root 
bash -x /usr/local/admin/bin/helpdesk off >/tmp/help.check 
2>&1
 
Now my scripts first 
line grabs the date/time and puts it into a variable... (as 
below)
RUNTIME="`date +\"%d 
%B %Y %H:%M %p\"`"
 
I echoed the 
debug output to the "/tmp/help.check" file and this is what I 
got!
 
++ date +%d %B %Y 
%H:%M %p+ RUNTIME=28 November 2001 08:49 AM
How can this run the 
minute before instead of ON TIME?
My problem is that 
this script checks the crontab running time against a DB file which has 8:50AM 
in it and doesn't match..
 
I can easily pass a 
parameter to say that it's an 8:50 run time even if it runs at 8:48 ot 8:49 yet 
the $1 parameter says 8:50 but that's a suck way to do 
it
 
does crontab do this 
usually?
 
thanks, George 
Vieira Systems Manager Citadel Computer Systems P/L 
 

[SLUG] OT: Vector data on Sydney CBD

[Jamie Honan]

> Has anyone used the CDROM version of the UBD Street
> Directory ? I'd like to hear opinions on the format used here,
> do you suppose it's vector or raster based ?

Haven't seen this particular one, but I imagine it is vector
format in mapinfo format. From memory, one of the formats is
fully defined and in ascii. (unlikely to be the one on CD).

Free map data for Australia would be really cool.

A lot of the stuff comes from 'Public Sector Mapping Agencies'.
The dept of lands for each state has the survey info for every
'parcel of land' - called cadastral data. The RTA, the railways,
water board, county councils, every bloody department
has some mapping data, none of it co-ordinated except by
commercial bodies.

Try PSMA, ANZLIC, AUSLIG in your search engine. Also mapinfo. 

None of it is free, yet we've already paid for it. The copyright
must be a fine line. The raw data just is : the
collation, the presentation is probably where the copyright applies.

I've never understood why cycling groups don't get together
with a few GPS recievers and make some really nice cycling
maps.

For personal use, you could 'screen scrape' some whereis
queries : e.g. using whitepages.

Jamie

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Re: [SLUG] OT: Vector data on Sydney CBD

[Jon Biddell]

> Free map data for Australia would be really cool.
> 
> A lot of the stuff comes from 'Public Sector Mapping Agencies'.
> The dept of lands for each state has the survey info for every
> 'parcel of land' - called cadastral data. The RTA, the railways,
> water board, county councils, every bloody department
> has some mapping data, none of it co-ordinated except by
> commercial bodies.

> None of it is free, yet we've already paid for it. The copyright
> must be a fine line. The raw data just is : the
> collation, the presentation is probably where the copyright applies.

You are partially correct.

The last GLIS survey was 1994, I believe, and that data is quite out of date (it was 
in 1995 !!).

You will *not* get it for nothing, and in fact its quite expensive to purchase.

I've been trying to get updated data for my Garmin eMap GPS for the last 6 months, as 
the stuff that Garmin were able to get suffers from a data translation problem - if 
the data is in (for example) AUS1994 format, and they converted it to NMEA or GARMIN 
format for the GPS, it shows points as being up to 500 metres out.

For example, taking a reading from Richmond railway station with a 5 metre resolution 
(and access to 8 satellites) should be fairly accurate, yet the map says that I am 435 
metres away from the station.

Same applies for my offivce in the CBD - a reading (handheld, from the roof with 6 
satellites and 10metre resolution) tells me that I work in Cockle Bay.

To get the same accuracy as, for example, the USA enjoys (wether it be mapping CDs, 
GPS data or... *gasp*... M$ Roadmap) would cost you thousands of dollars, as it's not 
"public domain" in this country, whereas almost every other country on this planet 
that uses this makes it available either free or for a VERY minimal fee.

Another example of yout tax dollars lining someone's poscets.

Cynically,

Jon




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[SLUG] Workflow software - PWMS. Need your help!

[Andrey Sardak]

Hello,

I heard about you from
http://ftoomsh.progsoc.uts.edu.au/lists/slug/2000/March/msg01402.html

I can't instal Parsec Workflow Management System (PWMS)
http://www.parsec.it/opensource/pwms/  because it has some errior in files
downloaded from the link above. Did you installed it successfully if yes
could I ask you to email me the working version or comments about
installation.

Thanks in advance,
Andrey Sardak



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Re: [SLUG] OT: Vector data on Sydney CBD

[Jamie Honan]

> I've been trying to get updated data for my Garmin eMap GPS for the last 6 months, 
>as the stuff that Garmin were able to get suffers from a data translation problem - 
>if the data is in (for example) AUS1994 format, and they converted it to NMEA or 
>GARMIN format for the GPS, it shows points as being up to 500 metres out.
> 
> For example, taking a reading from Richmond railway station with a 5 metre 
>resolution (and access to 8 satellites) should be fairly accurate, yet the map says 
>that I am 435 metres away from the station.
> 
> Same applies for my offivce in the CBD - a reading (handheld, from the roof with 6 
>satellites and 10metre resolution) tells me that I work in Cockle Bay.
> 
> To get the same accuracy as, for example, the USA enjoys (wether it be mapping CDs, 
>GPS data or... *gasp*... M$ Roadmap) would cost you thousands of dollars, as it's not 
>"public domain" in this country, whereas almost every other country on this planet 
>that uses this makes it available either free or for a VERY minimal fee.

Is it possible that this may be a projection, or datum point problem?

The earth is spherical-ish, and projecting this sphere onto
2D maps has all sorts of problems.

Jamie

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Re: [SLUG] OT: Vector data on Sydney CBD

[Jon Biddell]

Quoting Jamie Honan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:



> Is it possible that this may be a projection, or datum point problem?
> 
> The earth is spherical-ish, and projecting this sphere onto
> 2D maps has all sorts of problems.

Possibly, but if the original data is in AUS94 format, and they convert it to NMEA, 
for example, their algorithm seems to be introducing errors.

The bloody annoying thing is that the error is not constant - i.e. if it moved ALL 
points 500m NORTH, I could correct it myself.:-(

Jon



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[SLUG] GPS as a time source

[Matt Hyne]

I have a GPS received that I would like to try and use as a time source for NTP.  It 
is a Magellan GPS with a serial data interface.

Anyone know if there is any linux software support to use a (this) GPS as a time 
source for an NTP box ?

Matt


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Re: [SLUG] Crontab time

[chesty]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 09:14:04AM +1100, George Vieira wrote:
> 
> How can this run the minute before instead of ON TIME?

cron works out when the next job is to be run, and sleeps.
So if you change the system time, cron won't notice until
after it wakes up. If the time change is minor, it just runs the
job. It does different things depending on how big the time
change was, which direction the time change was, and the
type of crontab entry, it handle wild card entries differently.

In your case, it might have worked out that the next job is
to be run in 1000 seconds, so it sleeps for 1000 seconds.
If you then set the time forward 3 seconds, effectively, cron
wakes up 3 seconds early and runs the job in previous minute.

Do you sync the clock with ntp or some other way?

chesty


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Re: [SLUG] GPS as a time source

[Richard Ames]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, Matt Hyne wrote:

See http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/html/refclock.htm

The type 20 driver takes standard NMEA data... but will be inaccurate due to serial 
interface jitter.

You need a GPS that puts out a one pulse per second (PPS). See 
http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/Ftac2.html and related pages for some good interface 
hardware.

Regards,

Richard.

> 
> I have a GPS received that I would like to try and use as a time source for NTP.  It 
>is a Magellan GPS with a serial data interface.
> 
> Anyone know if there is any linux software support to use a (this) GPS as a time 
>source for an NTP box ?
> 
> Matt
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Richard Ames
linsup.com, Sydney, Australia
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.linsup.com



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Re: [SLUG] OT: Vector data on Sydney CBD

[Richard Ames]

You may find some useful map stuff at www.gpsoz.com.au AKA Brian sommerville.

-- 
Richard Ames
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mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.linsup.com



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[SLUG] RAID 5 [ perhaps OT ]

[Howard Lowndes]

If I have a RAID 5 set of 3 drives, and 1 drive fails, does that screw up
my data or will it still run on 2 drives after it has sorted itself out.

Must I be including a hot spare?  I know I should, but must I?

-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
 "We are either doing something, or we are not.
 'Talking about' is a subset of 'not'."


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RE: [SLUG] Crontab time

[George Vieira]

No time sync.. which I had a time server accurate enough on the web.

I have just finished modifying the damn script and crontabe to do the
following now...


30 5 * * * * root /usr/../../../helpdesk off "5:30 PM"

etc...etc.. so as long as it runs it'll work just a pain though.

thanks,
George Vieira
Systems Manager
Citadel Computer Systems P/L


-Original Message-
From: chesty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2001 10:53 AM
To: Sydney Linux Users Group (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [SLUG] Crontab time


On Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 09:14:04AM +1100, George Vieira wrote:
> 
> How can this run the minute before instead of ON TIME?

cron works out when the next job is to be run, and sleeps.
So if you change the system time, cron won't notice until
after it wakes up. If the time change is minor, it just runs the
job. It does different things depending on how big the time
change was, which direction the time change was, and the
type of crontab entry, it handle wild card entries differently.

In your case, it might have worked out that the next job is
to be run in 1000 seconds, so it sleeps for 1000 seconds.
If you then set the time forward 3 seconds, effectively, cron
wakes up 3 seconds early and runs the job in previous minute.

Do you sync the clock with ntp or some other way?

chesty


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Re: [SLUG] RAID 5 [ perhaps OT ]

[Jeff Waugh]

> If I have a RAID 5 set of 3 drives, and 1 drive fails, does that screw up
> my data or will it still run on 2 drives after it has sorted itself out.

It'll be fine. Until one of the other drives carks it.

> Must I be including a hot spare?  I know I should, but must I?

No, but yes, you should. :)

- Jeff

-- 
"Whatcha wanna be when you grow up?"
"Eight and a half." 

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Re: [SLUG] OT: Vector data on Sydney CBD

[Terry Collins]

Matt - wrote:

...snip

> 1) Has anyone used the CDROM version of the UBD Street
...snip
> it's pretty cool :) If it does use some kind of vector format,
> I wonder how difficult it would be to decompile the data files ?

UBD being a commercial company makes no secret of the fact that they
have about 12 errors per map in their directory - these exists soley to
catch anyone breaching their copyright. Also the data is adjusted for
map presentation - not on road use.

Essentially UBD = Gregory's = Pacific Access = WhereIsIt = Yellow Pages.
They see in car navigation systems as being one of the big future
markets.

> Would success here be unlikely ?

Yes. At best, you will probably get a georeferenced raster image that
you can lay your own date over.


-- 
   Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861  
   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  www: http://www.woa.com.au  
   Wombat Outdoor Adventures 

 "People without trees are like fish without clean water"

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RE: [SLUG] Network To Network

[George Vieira]

I have 2 networks running using PoPToP (PPTP) and 128 encryption.

It's alot easier if both networks are on different internal IP subnets as
routing is alot easier..

192.168.100.XX <->  202.44.164.38 <->  202.44.164.39 <->
192.168.101.XX

thanks,
George Vieira
Systems Manager
Citadel Computer Systems P/L


-Original Message-
From: Lyle Chapman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2001 11:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [SLUG] Network To Network


To whomever can help.

I want to connect 2 internal networks together across the internet using 
ipchains from 2 Linux routers. Is it possible to do this and have it 
tranparent to the internal networks.

I have tried everything I can think of and have read the HOWTO but cannot 
get through. If I am inside network 1 I get as far as the router at 
network 2 but cannot see or ping their internal network.

PLEASE HELP - As I am trying to learn Linux but unfortunately 
documentation is not aimed at the newbie sometimes!!!

Linux Box 1 is...
eth0 (internal) 192.168.100.130/255.255.255.0
eth1 (external) 202.44.164.38/255.255.255.240

Linux Box 2 is...
eth0 (internal) 192.168.100.131/255.255.255.0
eth1 (external) 202.44.164.39/255.255.255.240


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RE: [SLUG] Network To Network

[Silcock, Stephen]

> Linux Box 1 is...
> eth0 (internal) 192.168.100.130/255.255.255.0
> eth1 (external) 202.44.164.38/255.255.255.240
> 
> Linux Box 2 is...
> eth0 (internal) 192.168.100.131/255.255.255.0
> eth1 (external) 202.44.164.39/255.255.255.240
> 

Wouldn't you need to have distinct IP subnets on each internal network?  Not
both on 192.168.100?

S.   :)

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Re: [SLUG] OT: Vector data on Sydney CBD

[Terry Collins]

Jamie Honan wrote:

...snip.

> Free map data for Australia would be really cool.

The closest you will come is the AusLIG CD for $99? Has raster images at
1:250K. You need that other OS to extract data. I've had a quick look at
it and thought it was terrible and probably only good for a wall map.
I'm looking for something I can overlay bicycle touring information on.

When I explained what I wanted it for, AusLIG mumbled something about
$1/map for each download - right skip that.


> None of it is free, yet we've already paid for it. The copyright
> must be a fine line. The raw data just is : the
> collation, the presentation is probably where the copyright applies.

The Geographic Information Systems industry is dominated by US companies
because the US governement took this approach. They have all this data
to play around with to develop product to sell. Australia has a USER
PAYS approach.

The expensive part in GIS is data acquisition. The real problem with
data from various sources is getting it all to match up - this is very
big problem.

-- 
   Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861  
   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  www: http://www.woa.com.au  
   Wombat Outdoor Adventures 

 "People without trees are like fish without clean water"

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Re: [SLUG] Crontab time

[chesty]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 11:39:49AM +1100, George Vieira wrote:
> No time sync.. which I had a time server accurate enough on the web.

cron oddities have come up a few times recently, and for some
reason they tweak my interest. I wish they didn't.

I fcsk up a bit up, I want to understand this more so I did a
bit more research.

It doesn't sleep for longer than 60 seconds. It wakes up to check
if the timestamp on /etc/contrab, etc, has changed. I new this, duh.

>From what I can tell, if the clock changes, cron should sort itself 
out the next time it wakes up, which is 1 minute or less.

So even if you did change the time, I have no idea why your job ran 
early unless the time changed in the same minute as the job.

Unless your cron works differently...



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Re: [SLUG] Advice on coding in VI ?

[Jamie Wilkinson]

This one time, at band camp, Grant Parnell wrote:
>Delete up until matching line. 
>==
>You've found the need to delete a chunk of stuff, mark the beginning with
>some unique code word (I use 'gloop' for instance) skim through till the
>end and do "d?gloop" to delete backwards until a line with gloop is found.

You can save yourself some effort (this works with vim, I don't know if it's
100% vi) by marking a position with "'a" (set mark 'a') in command mode,
then go to the end and just "d'a" (delete to mark 'a').

"d$" is also very handy for deleting to the end of a line, and I find "Go"
useful for editing conffiles over slow links (go to the end of the file,
then start inserting on a new line)

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Weaseling out of things is important to learn.  It's what seperates us
from the animals.  Except the weasel.
-- Homer Simpson, Boy-Scoutz In The Hood

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Re: [SLUG] OT: Vector data on Sydney CBD

[Terry Collins]

Jamie Honan wrote:

> 
> I've never understood why cycling groups don't get together
> with a few GPS recievers and make some really nice cycling
> maps.

Why Not?

1) GPS receivers are not accurate enough.

2) GPS receivers are not reliable enough.

3) GPS receivers have a coverage like mobile phones = big holes.

4) GPS receivers do not have the capacity (waypoints) = required laptop.

5) Cost - software - very expensive, or Grass

6) Cost - labour - who is going to pay the person to process the data? 

> 
> For personal use, you could 'screen scrape' some whereis
> queries : e.g. using whitepages.

Scott Howard might light to post the URL's of the rides he has done
where he has laid GPS data over this style of map.

On the positive side, someone (apologies forgot where I'm filing stuff)
from Social Change Online is working on a project for online entry of
similar stuff (but it uses very expensive proprietary software).


Is anyone interested in this sort of thing? - i.e doing an open source
activity?

Bicycle Australia (http://www.woa.com.au/ba) has basically decided the
way forward for them is currently just to direct people to existing
commercial maps and later put some maps, as A5 landscape images, onto
WWW pages for people to download and print off themselves. Currently
each would need to be digitized and created as a graphic. It would be
better however, it there was an online GIS system that people could just
create the map they want.

-- 
   Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861  
   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  www: http://www.woa.com.au  
   Wombat Outdoor Adventures 

 "People without trees are like fish without clean water"

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RE: [SLUG] Network To Network

[George Vieira]

You can't route internal IPs over the internet... you MUST use a tunnel or
some kind...

You could use vpnd which uses blowfish I think... haven't used it much
before but I have used it..


thanks,
George Vieira
Systems Manager
Citadel Computer Systems P/L


-Original Message-
From: DaZZa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2001 12:12 PM
To: Lyle Chapman
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SLUG] Network To Network


On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, Lyle Chapman wrote:

> To whomever can help.
>
> I want to connect 2 internal networks together across the internet using
> ipchains from 2 Linux routers. Is it possible to do this and have it
> tranparent to the internal networks.
>
> I have tried everything I can think of and have read the HOWTO but cannot
> get through. If I am inside network 1 I get as far as the router at
> network 2 but cannot see or ping their internal network.
>
> PLEASE HELP - As I am trying to learn Linux but unfortunately
> documentation is not aimed at the newbie sometimes!!!

As far as I know, you can't do this with just ipchains - and if you could,
it'd be hideously insecure. I could be wrong about the first statement.
I'm not wrong about the second.

You can, however, do it via FreeS/WAN. Check out http://www.freeswan.org
for details and software.

Basically, you need to run a secure VPN encrypted across the internet. If
you don't do this, your commercial data is toast - it can be collected by
anyone with enough nouse to run a sniffer or data capture device on your
networks. Your network can also be compromised from outside much more
easily.

DaZZa


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Re: [SLUG] OT: Vector data on Sydney CBD

[Anthony Wood]

Hi,

www.aprs.net.au

APRS is a packet-radio and internet position reporting protocol.

These people will probably be useful to you as they need
the same things you do.

Woody

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Re: [SLUG] OT: Vector data on Sydney CBD

[Jeff Waugh]

> Is anyone interested in this sort of thing? - i.e doing an open source
> activity?

Yeah, Dave Kempe and I have been talking about a GPS-based distributed
map-making system for a while. Bits and pieces of implementation all over
the place. ;)

- Jeff

-- 
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 the table near the window please!" 

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RE: [SLUG] Routing was Network To Network

[Booth, Christopher (Aus) - ATP]

Can you do this kind of thing with IP Aliases ?
say eth0 = 192.168.100.130
and eth0:0 = 202.44.164.38

and setup routing that way ?
What disadvantages are there in not using a 2nd network card?

my example is Mandrake 8.1 on laptop with just one nic, I plug into the
corporate network with
a 13.199.x.x ipaddress and a working gateway
at home I use a 192.168.0.4 with the gateway being 192.168.0.1 which is the
IP address of my Win 2000 Workstation for internet connection sharing (my
wife can't get used to Linux yet)

At the moment I have to set up a script to add the default gateway
eg. route add default gw 192.168.0.1

I would like to be able to have both setup and automatically use the
appropriate network

Chris

-Original Message-
From: Silcock, Stephen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 11:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [SLUG] Network To Network


> Linux Box 1 is...
> eth0 (internal) 192.168.100.130/255.255.255.0
> eth1 (external) 202.44.164.38/255.255.255.240
> 
> Linux Box 2 is...
> eth0 (internal) 192.168.100.131/255.255.255.0
> eth1 (external) 202.44.164.39/255.255.255.240
> 

Wouldn't you need to have distinct IP subnets on each internal network?  Not
both on 192.168.100?

S.   :)

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Re: [SLUG] Network To Network

[Matt Hyne]

At Wednesday, 28/11/2001 11:59 AM (+1100), Lyle Chapman wrote:
>To whomever can help.
>
>I want to connect 2 internal networks together across the internet using 
>ipchains from 2 Linux routers. Is it possible to do this and have it 
>tranparent to the internal networks.
>
>I have tried everything I can think of and have read the HOWTO but cannot 
>get through. If I am inside network 1 I get as far as the router at 
>network 2 but cannot see or ping their internal network.
>
>PLEASE HELP - As I am trying to learn Linux but unfortunately 
>documentation is not aimed at the newbie sometimes!!!
>
>Linux Box 1 is...
>eth0 (internal) 192.168.100.130/255.255.255.0
>eth1 (external) 202.44.164.38/255.255.255.240
>
>Linux Box 2 is...
>eth0 (internal) 192.168.100.131/255.255.255.0
>eth1 (external) 202.44.164.39/255.255.255.240

Two different subnets makes life hard.  I am also suprised that the external network 
addresses are on the same subnet - is this on the same ISP ?

If the two networks are truly connected on the same external subnet then life is 
pretty easy however since you are running your traffic over a public network it is 
well recommended that you use IPSec for security.

To get basic routing working, you could divy your 192.x.x.x network into two smaller 
subnets, or renumber the one at the other site.  Then all you would really have to do 
is add some static routes into the linux box at each end pointing to the other 
router's gateway (external) address.

Matt




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Re: [SLUG] OT: Vector data on Sydney CBD

[Terry Collins]

Jon Biddell wrote:

...snip

> The last GLIS survey was 1994, I believe, and that data is quite out of date (it was 
>in 1995 !!).

Umm, I think they last fully covered the country in 1945 - it really
depends on the date of the last map produced.


> I've been trying to get updated data for my Garmin eMap GPS for the last 6 months, 
>as the stuff that Garmin were able to get suffers from a data translation problem - 
>if the data is in (for example) AUS1994 format, and they converted it to NMEA or 
>GARMIN format for the GPS, it shows points as being up to 500 metres out.

How is it out?
What co-ordinates system are you using?
I understadn that there have been some changes 

Do you know that Australia changed from AMG to GDA a few years ago?
I have no idea on the "adjustments" to Australia spheroids/? to GPS
systems, but I understand that there has been a few.

...snip

> To get the same accuracy as, for example, the USA enjoys (wether it be mapping CDs, 
>GPS data or... *gasp*... M$ Roadmap) would cost you thousands of dollars, as it's not 
>"public domain" in this country, whereas almost every other country on this planet 
>that uses this makes it available either free or for a VERY minimal fee.

The US makes it available for the cost of delivery. Most other
countries, in the world, do not have any data. It is mainly a thing with
the industrialised world, so far.

-- 
   Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861  
   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  www: http://www.woa.com.au  
   Wombat Outdoor Adventures 

 "People without trees are like fish without clean water"

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RE: [SLUG] Network To Network

[Matt Hyne]

At Wednesday, 28/11/2001 12:14 PM (+1100), George Vieira wrote:
>You can't route internal IPs over the internet... you MUST use a tunnel or
>some kind...

Well, that depends.  From his config, both external IPs were on the same subnet so the 
ISPs router probably could be bypassed using a static route.

We need to know more about the public side of the network.

>You could use vpnd which uses blowfish I think... haven't used it much
>before but I have used it..

The only VPN solution I would recommend would be IPSec - ie FreeS/Wan.  Others have a 
number of significant holes.

Matt



>thanks,
>George Vieira
>Systems Manager
>Citadel Computer Systems P/L
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: DaZZa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2001 12:12 PM
>To: Lyle Chapman
>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [SLUG] Network To Network
>
>
>On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, Lyle Chapman wrote:
>
>> To whomever can help.
>>
>> I want to connect 2 internal networks together across the internet using
>> ipchains from 2 Linux routers. Is it possible to do this and have it
>> tranparent to the internal networks.
>>
>> I have tried everything I can think of and have read the HOWTO but cannot
>> get through. If I am inside network 1 I get as far as the router at
>> network 2 but cannot see or ping their internal network.
>>
>> PLEASE HELP - As I am trying to learn Linux but unfortunately
>> documentation is not aimed at the newbie sometimes!!!
>
>As far as I know, you can't do this with just ipchains - and if you could,
>it'd be hideously insecure. I could be wrong about the first statement.
>I'm not wrong about the second.
>
>You can, however, do it via FreeS/WAN. Check out http://www.freeswan.org
>for details and software.
>
>Basically, you need to run a secure VPN encrypted across the internet. If
>you don't do this, your commercial data is toast - it can be collected by
>anyone with enough nouse to run a sniffer or data capture device on your
>networks. Your network can also be compromised from outside much more
>easily.
>
>DaZZa
>
>
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>More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
>
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Re: [SLUG] OT: Vector data on Sydney CBD

[Jon Biddell]

> 1) GPS receivers are not accurate enough.

Untrue. Not military grade, granted, but my eMap is accurate to 5.0 metres with 7 
satellites, using either the inbuilt or external antennae. I have had instances where 
I have had 8 satellites and the accuracy increased to 3.0 metres, but these are the 
exception rather than the rule.

> 2) GPS receivers are not reliable enough.

Untrue. The eMap (and, to a certain extent, eTrek) from Garmin regularly take a 
pounding in Marvin the Urban Assault Vehicle, and get kicked around and dropped at 
home, and have NEVER failed to perform.
 
> 3) GPS receivers have a coverage like mobile phones = big holes.

Partially true, depending on buildings and tree cover. Lesser effects are felt if you 
use the external antenna (fixed to helmet, perhaps ?)
 
> 4) GPS receivers do not have the capacity (waypoints) = required laptop.

Mostly true - although the eMap has lasted me from Bowen Mountain to Maitland and back 
- it all depends on your speed. Greater Speed = more distance between TRACK points (as 
opposed to WAYpoints)= greater distance.

> 5) Cost - software - very expensive, or Grass

There are several Linux and Evilware apps that are available gratis - see 
www.gpss.co.uk for a good Evilware one, and he's open to someone doing an X version of 
it.
 
> 6) Cost - labour - who is going to pay the person to process the data? 

Yes, this is A Bugger... 

> Is anyone interested in this sort of thing? - i.e doing an open source
> activity?
> 
> Bicycle Australia (http://www.woa.com.au/ba) has basically decided the
> way forward for them is currently just to direct people to existing
> commercial maps and later put some maps, as A5 landscape images, onto
> WWW pages for people to download and print off themselves. Currently
> each would need to be digitized and created as a graphic. It would be
> better however, it there was an online GIS system that people could just
> create the map they want.

As long as they pay their road taxes, then..:-)

Joking !!!

Jon

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[SLUG] OT: domestic data cabling.

[Dean]

Hi,

(sorry for the OT post)

I'm having problems finding a sparky that will do a small/ish 
domestic cat-5 cabling job. Basically I need about 4 or so RJ-45 
wall-points around the place cabled back to a bedroom (where the switch 
is). The option of doing it myself isn't possible unfortunately.

If anyone can recommend anyone that might be able to help that'd be 
great. The house is located on the NSW Northern Beaches (Dee Why), and I 
can supply most/all of the cat-5 aswell if that helps (just not the 
wall-points, but if it's necessary I can arrange that too).

Pls direct replies to me only (if there are any:)

Thanks,

Dean. 

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[SLUG] Epson Printer Problem

[Katie Shannon]

Hello Slug,
I have an old Epson LQ-570+, ESC/P2 dot matrix printer. It is still
a great printer, my daughter uses it for school. The problem we are
having is the printer seems to be set for too many lines per page. The
first page prints out, but the print is close to the page bottom. Then
the next page starts down too low and the bottom of that page prints on
the next page. This gets progressively worse as multiple pages are
printed. The only way we can print multiple page documents is to cue the
printer to print each page separately. My brother suggested that the
lines per page may need resetting. Does that sound like the problem? If
so what is the solution?
Any Help you could offer would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mrs.Susan Shannon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [SLUG] Advice on coding in VI ?

[Matthew Dalton]

Jamie Wilkinson wrote:
> You can save yourself some effort (this works with vim, I don't know if it's
> 100% vi) by marking a position with "'a" (set mark 'a') in command mode,
> then go to the end and just "d'a" (delete to mark 'a').

In vim, you can go into 'visual' mode by pressing 'v' while in command
mode. Moving the cursor around while in visual mode causes text to be
highlighted. You can then delete the highlighted text by pressing 'x' or
copy it by pressing 'y'.

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Re: [SLUG] Mutt Basics

[David Fitch]

On Tue, Nov 27, 2001 at 07:14:07PM +1100, Matt - wrote:
> I am looking for a brief introduction to Mutt, I
> have searched for a few guides on the internet
> but am actually still having trouble finding out
> how to specify my mail servers.

you don't basically.
It's true you can make mutt retrieve mail from a pop server
(only one though) but don't bother, use fetchmail to do it for you.

For doco, have you checked /usr/doc/mutt* on your system?
there's manuals and faqs etc that come with it (or see www.mutt.org).

Mutt is simply a mail reader.
So to do what you want you would normally have 3 programs
working together:
- fetchmail to retrieve your pop email
- mutt to read it and compose email (MUA - mail user agent)
- sendmail/postfix/exim/ssmtp (or whatever) to send the email
out to your ISP (MTA - mail transfer agent)

This is the traditional unix way of having small simple programs
each doing a single job well.

> I also don't understand the local mail server
> concept. Is it true that it's common practice to
> have a mail server on my system constantly receive
> mail and then offer it to my email programs - it
> seems like most email programs want to check "local
> mail" by default".

yes, in the case I've described above the MTA is your local
mail server which receives the email (from fetchmail in this
case) and stores it in /var/mail (or /var/spool/mail).

So fetchmail retrieves the email from your ISP, passes it to
your local MTA which stores it in /var/mail ready to be read
by your MUA (ie. mutt).

Dave.

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Re: [SLUG] OT: Vector data on Sydney CBD

[Terry Collins]

Jon Biddell wrote:
> 
> > 1) GPS receivers are not accurate enough.
> 
> Untrue. Not military grade, granted, but my eMap is accurate to 5.0 metres with 7 
>satellites, using either the inbuilt or external antennae. I have had instances where 
>I have had 8 satellites and the accuracy increased to 3.0 metres, but these are the 
>exception rather than the rule.

I think you have just supported my point exactly. It needs to be sub 1.0
metre in accuracy for bicycles. You need to think of situations where
multiple services are close together; e.g. road, path, road, drains etc.

The way around this is to time adjust the data collected. Either
subscribe to the service that uses JJJ, buy the adjust off LIC, or build
your own (just record the GPS reading at an exactly known spot and
adjust your readings with your recorded difference)


> > 2) GPS receivers are not reliable enough.
> 
> Untrue. The eMap (and, to a certain extent, eTrek) from Garmin regularly take a 
>pounding in Marvin the Urban Assault Vehicle, and get kicked around and dropped at 
>home, and have NEVER failed to perform.

Well, one day in the urban assault vehicle is not really that reliable.
I'm thinking of the kilos of batteries that one is going to need to map
a weeks ride along the great dividing range. As I understand it, some of
the current models might just give 12 hours on a set of batteries.

 
> > 4) GPS receivers do not have the capacity (waypoints) = required laptop.
> 
> Mostly true - although the eMap has lasted me from Bowen Mountain to Maitland and 
>back - it all depends on your speed. Greater Speed = more distance between TRACK 
>points (as opposed to WAYpoints)= greater distance.

Firstly, we are talking about mapping a road - not just recording enough
point to show which road you followed. It is cyclic point 2 & 4 problem.
You can boost your waypoint capacity by having a laptop pull in the
readings all the time, but then I've got to add a weeks supply of
batteries for the laptop. 


> 
> > 5) Cost - software - very expensive, or Grass
> 
> There are several Linux and Evilware apps that are available gratis - see 
>www.gpss.co.uk for a good Evilware one, and he's open to someone doing an X version 
>of it.

Of the ones I've seen, none of them are anything more than Micky Mouse.
Either you are up for a full, expensive package, or it is something for
just one part. And you will see what is really needed below.



Okay, despite all the above, I believe it is do-able, now, for about
$2,500 with 2nd hand laptop, gps card and a few canabalised sensors -
you create the combined gps/data logger/bicycle computer. (GPS, time,
speed, cadence, inclinometer?, light?). For extra, you could also add a
digital camera, which could take occassional snaps of the left side
front wheel.

So, we have the bicyclist with bicycle kitted out. The system wakes up
and starts logging when they start wheeling their bicycle out the door.
They do their days riding/weeks trip/whatever.

Next time they hit the internet, their system sends in all the data.

First step is to correct the GPS readings - a simple awk script looks at
each line, decides which regional set of correction data to use, then
finds the closest matching time and adjusts the GPS figures.

Next is to convert the GPS figures into your storage figures; perhaps
GDA (new AMG).

Next is to relate the figures to the rest of your data. Anyone who has
seen data from various different agencies will tell you that very rarely
do they line up. This usually involves a person to use intelligence and
say that point on that bend is most probably this point on this corner
on our collected data - process the data - then check it to make sure it
fits.

Perhaps we can skip the above step if we can train all our
monkeys^h^h^h^hbicyclists to log certain points, e.g. we drive a steel
pin into the foot path outside their home and say enter #01# everytime
you cross this point, and we have #99# for a marked point at their work,
etc.


Eventually, you build up an enormous amount of data that you can process
to create a bicycle map.

What goes onto the map is a bit political - some people argue for KISS
and that means one line of varying colour.

At the other end is the six line monster (three different lines for
three different bits of information.

The inner line is the road itself (3 lanes, one lane, heavy traffic,
very low traffic, commuter peaks, hot mix, concrete slabs, gravel, mud,
etc)

The outer line is road edge condition and a vital safety information,
from dangerous because there is no shoulder and rock wall (raspberry
jam), or crash barrier (broken legs), or breakdown lane (nice, but
rough), nil (huge potholes) clearway, parked cars, etc. This is what
your digital camera is snapping.

The centre line could be grade & surface.


That is what you need to be able to do. Just collecting GPS reading is
not very useful. It is a bit like printing out all the linux
documentation - totally useless unless it is filed

[SLUG] Check my thinking please

[Simon Bryan]

Hi all,
I need some collective wisdom on a process I have planned.

I have AUC running on a RH7 server, no problems. However I want to add 
another package that requires me to rebuild Apache with MySql and PhP 
support - again no trouble using Apache toolbox, I have done this as far as 
'make'. The original Apache server was installed by the RH installer, 
assumedly from an RPM.

It is important that this server be down for a minimum of time ie minutes 
rather than hours.

My thoughts are that I should be able to shutdown the existing Apache, 
unistall the RPM and then do the make install on my new server. Assuming I 
have the conf file correctly setup, with the web root and doc root in 
particular, then all I should have to do is to start the new server and we 
are back in business.

If that works then I need to do something similar with MySQL as I have 
'upgraded' from source over the top of an rpm install and there are stray 
files all over the place! So shutdown MySql, uninstall the server, get rid 
of any of the binaries from the source install - taking care to protect my 
databases - re-install (perhaps the binary version) and re-start.

Does this sound logical





Simon Bryan


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[SLUG] OpenView Query

[Hartono, Susanto]

Sluggers,

I understand that this may be the wrong place to ask but does anyone know
how to remove devices from HP OpenView from the command line?

Adding devices to OpenView from the CLI is pretty easy:
/opt/OV/bin/loadhosts 

but deleting them is a different story. 

A search on Google and HP site doesn't show anything remotely close to what
I am after.

Thanks.
SH

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Re: [SLUG] Check my thinking please

[Stuart Guthrie]

> It is important that this server be down for a minimum of time ie 
> minutes rather than hours. 


Could you not install the new version in a different place, change your 
conf to reflect a different port (eg 8080), start it up and test against 
that port instead of the whole shutdown, uninstall re-install thingo?

>
> My thoughts are that I should be able to shutdown the existing Apache, 
> unistall the RPM and then do the make install on my new server. 
> Assuming I have the conf file correctly setup, with the web root and 
> doc root in particular, then all I should have to do is to start the 
> new server and we are back in business.


Same here? Conf the mysql port to a different number?

>
> If that works then I need to do something similar with MySQL as I have 
> 'upgraded' from source over the top of an rpm install and there are 
> stray files all over the place! So shutdown MySql, uninstall the 
> server, get rid of any of the binaries from the source install - 
> taking care to protect my databases - re-install (perhaps the binary 
> version) and re-start.
>
>



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Re: [SLUG] BIOS upgrade (OT... a bit)

[Ben Donohue]

Hi Slugs,
The BIOS is all OK now and reading the larger HDD.
The docs on the BIOS motherboard site said that the 2Mb BIOS upgrade accepts a
larger HDD.
The docs did not mention in the 1Mb upgrade that is fixes the large HDD problem.
I only had a 1Mb BIOS not the 2Mb BIOS.
So I flashed it anyway. Turned out to be the correct decision as the BIOS now
recognises the larger HDD.

To answer Grant Parnell's question, I did try to manually set the BIOS without
auto to every config it would take. Ie. manually putting in drive parameters etc.
No go. If the hardware doesn't like it, the software never will.
Ben.

Grant Parnell wrote:

> On 22 Nov 2001, Damien Elmes wrote:
>
> >
> > Jeffrey Borg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > couldn't you just make it smaller in the bios and go and install linux on
> > > it anyway
> > >
> > > like my laptop 12gb disk windoze only see's 8gb and it's only in the 1st
> > > 2gb only anyway. Linux on the rest works fine. Linux dosen't care about
> > > broken bios'es! Heck it dosen't even use it!
> >
> > my bios would freeze on POST with a 40gb drive until i upgraded it.
> > fortunately i didn't need to increase the size of the chip in order to
> > fit the updated version.
>
> Just as an excercise I'd like to find out if manually setting the BIOS in
> advance to a non auto detect setting would fix this problem. If the
> original poster could at least try this before doing the flash upgrade I'd
> be pleased to hear from them but generally speaking an upgraded BIOS would
> be nicer.
>
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> Phone/fax: 02 4950 1194
> Mobile: 0408 686 201


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[SLUG] OT: Budget AMD System / Cheap Motherboards !

[Matt -]

Hi Group !

I am looking to upgrade my current system (P2 350)
to an AMD system and am wondering why people who
are not interested in overclocking, purchase expensive
ABIT/ASUS motherboards. They seems to be approximately
$100 MORE than GigaByte motherboards which is pretty
substantial when single processor MBs range from $200
to $350. Still everyone seems to prefer ABIT/ASUS boards.

They aren't any faster, they don't really have any special
features over cheaper boards, etc etc .. so why do people
buy them ? Should I just go with a Gigabyte board ?

I'd also like to know everyone's opinions on places to
buy hardware, the popular "North Rocks Computer Market"
is currently my top pick due to their prices.

Matt

_
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[SLUG] Help with error message

[Bernhard Lüder]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me, please what the following means:

Nov 28 14:38:26 home kernel: scsi0: ERROR on channel 0, id 6, lun 0, CDB:
Read (10) 00 02 5c 01 58 00 00 08 00
Nov 28 14:38:26 home kernel: Info fld=0x25c0158, Current sd08:11: sense key
Medium Error
Nov 28 14:38:26 home kernel: Additional sense indicates Unrecovered read
error
Nov 28 14:38:26 home kernel:  I/O error: dev 08:11, sector 39584056
Nov 28 14:38:26 home kernel: EXT2-fs error (device sd(8,17)):
ext2_write_inode: unable to read inode block - inode=2470209, block=4948007


Does this mean I have a bad sector on disk /dev/sdb1 at sector 39584056?
Bernhard Lüder

This electronic mail is solely for the use of the addressee and may contain
information that is confidential or privileged.  If you receive this
electronic mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and
notify the sender by electronic mail.




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[SLUG] JOB AD: Junior Linux Developer

[Daniel Whomes]

Title: Message



Due 
to the great response I got last time, if you are looking for an entry-level 
Linux position - installs and maintaining please get in touch 
asap.
 
Thanks
 
Daniel 
Whomes

Re: [SLUG] RAID 5 [ perhaps OT ]

[DaZZa]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, Howard Lowndes wrote:

> If I have a RAID 5 set of 3 drives, and 1 drive fails, does that screw up
> my data or will it still run on 2 drives after it has sorted itself out.

Nope. Your data will survive on 2 drives. Three is the minimum drive
number for a raid 5 set. If a drive failure when you've only got 3 drives
lost data, then it couldn't legitimately be called raid. However, you run
huge risks {see point 2 below} if you don't replace it immediately.

> Must I be including a hot spare?  I know I should, but must I?

Of course not. However, there are advantages to doing so.

1) You are guaranteed matched drives. This might sound trivial, but if you
buy three drives and run them for, say, three years, have you any idea
what your chances are of replacing one which fails?

2) The onus of immediately replacing any failed drive {in a three drive
set} is reduced. Your hot spare takes over, and you've still got a valid
raid 5 set with full recoverability. You can withstand _two_ drive
failures in short order - and anyone who thinks that's unlikely hasn't
worked with large raid sets much. :-)

DaZZa


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Re: [SLUG] Network To Network

[DaZZa]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, Lyle Chapman wrote:

> To whomever can help.
>
> I want to connect 2 internal networks together across the internet using
> ipchains from 2 Linux routers. Is it possible to do this and have it
> tranparent to the internal networks.
>
> I have tried everything I can think of and have read the HOWTO but cannot
> get through. If I am inside network 1 I get as far as the router at
> network 2 but cannot see or ping their internal network.
>
> PLEASE HELP - As I am trying to learn Linux but unfortunately
> documentation is not aimed at the newbie sometimes!!!

As far as I know, you can't do this with just ipchains - and if you could,
it'd be hideously insecure. I could be wrong about the first statement.
I'm not wrong about the second.

You can, however, do it via FreeS/WAN. Check out http://www.freeswan.org
for details and software.

Basically, you need to run a secure VPN encrypted across the internet. If
you don't do this, your commercial data is toast - it can be collected by
anyone with enough nouse to run a sniffer or data capture device on your
networks. Your network can also be compromised from outside much more
easily.

DaZZa


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RE: [SLUG] Network To Network

[DaZZa]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, Matt Hyne wrote:

> At Wednesday, 28/11/2001 12:14 PM (+1100), George Vieira wrote:
> >You can't route internal IPs over the internet... you MUST use a tunnel or
> >some kind...
>
> Well, that depends.  From his config, both external IPs were on the same
> subnet so the ISPs router probably could be bypassed using a static
> route.

Indeed. But that sssumes that he has control of both routers involved.

It'd still be open to security penetration, though.

> >You could use vpnd which uses blowfish I think... haven't used it much
> >before but I have used it..
>
> The only VPN solution I would recommend would be IPSec - ie FreeS/Wan.
> Others have a number of significant holes.

Which was what I suggested.

DaZZa


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