[RCSE] Plane in a tree record?
Yesterday, I found myself wondering; how long has an airplane stayed in a tree before being retrieved? The thought came to me as I happened to pass the large oak tree that has held my plane for the last 13 days! Anyone think they might be holding the record? Bill Swingle Janesville, CA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Loss of airplane, and - how to try to avoid in the future
Folks, I posted this to my club's email list last week, and someone suggested I post it here as well. A week ago today, I was out flying my Compulsion (I loved that plane! :-(). It was a good distance away, but still well within radio range. Clouds were coming in - still high in the sky, but they made a nice white background upon which to fly. I went into a turn, and the nice white wings of the Compulsion completely melded in with the background. Minor panic, but not bad, because I thought No problem, I'll just keep the turn in until I see the black of the bottom of the wing. I never saw it. I tried maneuvering a bit so that I would see a flash of *anything* - no luck. I finally dropped my landing flaps and hoped for the best. I spent the rest of the afternoon searching for it. One thing I learned - a 3M plane is pretty big when it's nearby, but when it's potentially lost in a huge space, it suddenly seems awful tiny. I did have my name and address in the airplane, hopefully sometime as the season goes on, someone might give me a call and let me know they found it. This got me thinking - what kinds of recovery systems do you folks use in your airplanes (or, do you?)? If I had some sort of transmitter in it, perhaps I would have had a chance at recovering it. The ideal 'something' would be a 'thing' that would transmit its location. The receiver would plug into a GPS, or into a laptop with a GPS, and be able to say Bing - your plane is here (give or take 3 meters). Thanks in advance. - Dave P.S. (I've already said it) - I really loved that airplane. A 7037 Compulsion is an excellent aircraft. attachment: winmail.dat
[RCSE] Re: F3B Batteries at the Nats
Joe Wurts wrote:(about rental winch batteries) Dave,Any chance of the same deal being available for the TS?JoePS We will remember to finish off the charge on the batteries before usingthem... :-)Joe, the answer is yes. Rental of batteries for the team select in Oct is still $20.00 each. These are the same type Interstate 500 cca batteries we had at Muncie for F3B. SO, the big question is how many do we want to order ? What I would likeis every one who wants batteries to contact me by e-mail by Sept 20th with their quantity requirements. I would imagine 2 or 3 per winch. They will be delivered to AMA headquarters Oct 6th, fully charged and ready to use. Entrants will have to supply their own chargers. There should be power available at the site to enable charging during the day as well. Regards, Dave Corven.
RE: [RCSE] JR 610 M Receiver
The earlier short-antenna version of this receiver was *horrible*. Terrible range, glitchy, etc. Karlton called it the splat-master - the title was well-deserved. JR has had a quiet recall out on these. They replace the antenna with a standard-length one and retune them - after which they work just as well as any other JR ABC+W receiver. *** Determine which version you have before you fly it! *** The new versions have a small, round, blue QC sticker on the bottom of the case and a standard-length antenna (39 IIRC). The older versions have shortened antennas (somewhere around 18-24) and a small round RED QC sticker on the case bottom. FYI - I have reworked 610M receivers in my Mini-Ellipse sloper and Wizard-E HLG. No problems with either one. -==- Barrett -Original Message- From: Alan J. Wasserman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 6:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RCSE] JR 610 M Receiver Has anyone had any experience, good or bad, with this receiver. I had planned to use it in an electric Mini-Ellipse. Any comments would be appreciated. TIA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Re: What is the real range of our TXs?
On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 10:23:31AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: |I am probably wrong on this issue, but I thought Maynard Hill held the |altitude record many years ago with an RC model using military ( Navy) |radar In excess of 20,000 ft (3.78 mi.). http://records.fai.org:81/pilot.asp?from=modelid=569 Looks like he set an altitude record on 06/09/1970 with a gain of 8025 meters. Really, google is your friend here. Maynard's all over the place :) (Though what's really scary here is that `Doug McLaren' has more hits in google than `Maynard Hill'. Though to be fair, they're not all me, and when I remove the `not me' Dougs, Maynard wins the google war, though not by much. I guess that just means I waste much of my time online, and he spends much of his time breaking records. :) ) To make this somewhat relevant to this discussion, my guess would be that he did not use standard 72 mHz equipment to reach 8025 meters. He probably used 50 mHz equipment, which allows a full watt of power for R/C use and the use of high gain transmitting antennas. He probably had a helper who's job was to point the antenna right at the plane. A simple Yagi antenna would probably give him 10 miles of range without much difficulty even with only one watt, and without doing anything special with the receiver or receiver antenna. I've seen pictures of him sitting in a Navy gun turret, looking almost straight up through the built in binoculars/whatever. I'm guessing that this picture was taken when he was setting this record. -- Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat. -- John Lehman, Secretary of the Navy, 1981-1987 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Loss of airplane, and - how to try to avoid in the future
I'll contribute the Skip Miller I ain't got it procedure which I have successfully used. Slowly pull and hold full up elevator - the plane will typically start looping and flopping about the sky giving lots of different angles and reflections of the plane. It also does not come down too fast. Try it out when you can see the plane to see the behavior. FWIW - Jim Monaco --- Dave Brombaugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Folks, I posted this to my club's email list last week, and someone suggested I post it here as well. A week ago today, I was out flying my Compulsion (I loved that plane! :-(). It was a good distance away, but still well within radio range. Clouds were coming in - still high in the sky, but they made a nice white background upon which to fly. I went into a turn, and the nice white wings of the Compulsion completely melded in with the background. Minor panic, but not bad, because I thought No problem, I'll just keep the turn in until I see the black of the bottom of the wing. I never saw it. I tried maneuvering a bit so that I would see a flash of *anything* - no luck. I finally dropped my landing flaps and hoped for the best. I spent the rest of the afternoon searching for it. One thing I learned - a 3M plane is pretty big when it's nearby, but when it's potentially lost in a huge space, it suddenly seems awful tiny. I did have my name and address in the airplane, hopefully sometime as the season goes on, someone might give me a call and let me know they found it. This got me thinking - what kinds of recovery systems do you folks use in your airplanes (or, do you?)? If I had some sort of transmitter in it, perhaps I would have had a chance at recovering it. The ideal 'something' would be a 'thing' that would transmit its location. The receiver would plug into a GPS, or into a laptop with a GPS, and be able to say Bing - your plane is here (give or take 3 meters). Thanks in advance. - Dave P.S. (I've already said it) - I really loved that airplane. A 7037 Compulsion is an excellent aircraft. ATTACHMENT part 2 application/ms-tnef name=winmail.dat RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Loss of airplane, and - how to try to avoid in the future
My sympathies! He's what I've done in the past. However, the planes were usually close to the ground when I lost sight of them. Once, all I had to go on was my kid saying he'd lost his plane and had no IDEA where it was, but that's another story. -Define an area where you're 90% confident the plane is located. -Increase the area by a lot, ~1.5 - 2 times. -Walk the entire area in a grid pattern. (I use a GPS to stay on grid) -Grid density should be small, depending upon the local vegetation. -Aerial recon. Try to find someone with an airplane to search by air. The cost of the search determines the reasonable cost of the search. -In the future a Beeping device can help you to not walk right past the plane. Minimal help but they're cheap. Best of luck, Bill Swingle RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Loss of airplane, and - how to find it
The Picolario is more than meets the eye or ear. While it does have altitude reporting, vario and battery voltage reporting and some memory functions as well, it has one feature that is not as well understood. Thats its 'glitch' warning system. When a glitch happens, the girl reports "attention!". When a sailplane was lost quite aways off in a corn field last Nats, Hartmut used that warning system to home in on the sailplane really quickly. It was not where witnesses saw it go down by the way. He simply began by retracting the TX antenna then rotating his body to get glitch reports, that gave him a crude vector to start out the search, he continued to retract the antenna until they virtually walked up to the plane buried deep in the corn. (deep enough that an aerial search didn't see the plane from the report that I heard). Even if the details of that search weren't accurate, the fact is that Hartmut found the plane using the glitch reporting capability of the Picolario. Contact Hartmut for the real info on this proceedure and hope you never need to use it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] and by the way you can also get altitude, vario and voltage...is it too expensive for you now? http://www.picolario-usa.com/2.%20Ebene%20Picolario/Picolario1_page.htm Gordy :-)
Re: [RCSE] Plane in a tree record?
9 months 8 days before it was retrieved. Tree was really only a small bush, but far away from where I thought it landed. T T TG 32 Mount View Dr Afton, VA 22920 540 943-3356 fax 943-4178 540 943-3356 - Original Message - From: Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:37 AM Subject: [RCSE] Plane in a tree record? Yesterday, I found myself wondering; how long has an airplane stayed in a tree before being retrieved? The thought came to me as I happened to pass the large oak tree that has held my plane for the last 13 days! Anyone think they might be holding the record? Bill Swingle Janesville, CA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Loss of airplane, and - how to find it
That's a cool story, I hadn't heard that before. The other thing the Picolario can do is if you have a PCM system, it can be set up to transmit Attention! anytime your system goes into fail-safe or fail-hold. At 11:28 AM 8/27/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Picolario is more than meets the eye or ear. While it does have altitude reporting, vario and battery voltage reporting and some memory functions as well, it has one feature that is not as well understood. Thats its 'glitch' warning system. When a glitch happens, the girl reports attention!. When a sailplane was lost quite aways off in a corn field last Nats, Hartmut used that warning system to home in on the sailplane really quickly. It was not where witnesses saw it go down by the way. He simply began by retracting the TX antenna then rotating his body to get glitch reports, that gave him a crude vector to start out the search, he continued to retract the antenna until they virtually walked up to the plane buried deep in the corn. (deep enough that an aerial search didn't see the plane from the report that I heard). Even if the details of that search weren't accurate, the fact is that Hartmut found the plane using the glitch reporting capability of the Picolario. Contact Hartmut for the real info on this proceedure and hope you never need to use it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] and by the way you can also get altitude, vario and voltage...is it too expensive for you now? http://www.picolario-usa.com/2.%20Ebene%20Picolario/Picolario1_page.htm Gordy :-) Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537 LSF 7560 Level IV ICQ: 6997780 AIM: InventorJim R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net
Re: [RCSE] Loss of airplane, and - how to try to avoid in the future
On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 08:41:02AM -0700, Dave Brombaugh wrote: | I spent the rest of the afternoon searching for it. One thing I learned | - a 3M plane is pretty big when it's nearby, but when it's potentially | lost in a huge space, it suddenly seems awful tiny. That's gotta hurt. I feel for you ... | I did have my name and address in the airplane, hopefully sometime as | the season goes on, someone might give me a call and let me know they | found it. That's probably the best thing you can do. Personally, I put them in a few places on the plane, and make them waterproof just in case the plane isn't found right away. | This got me thinking - what kinds of recovery systems do you folks use | in your airplanes (or, do you?)? I put these in my planes - http://www.hobbico.com/accys/hcap0335.html They're pretty loud if mounted properly (with the speaker open to the outside), and will let you hear your plane from a hundred or so yards away, maybe more if it's quiet. And at $15 each (less in quantity) I can easily put one in every plane. I don't know if it would have helped much in your situation (but it might have, if you'd happened to get close to your plane while you were looking for it.) If you've never had to find a plane lost in the trees, it's amazing how easy it is to miss a plane that's only 10 yards away, over and over and over. Without the alarm, the alternative is to wiggle the sticks and hope you can hear the servos, but that's only good for a few feet at best. | If I had some sort of transmitter in it, perhaps I would have had a | chance at recovering it. The ideal 'something' would be a 'thing' | that would transmit its location. The receiver would plug into a | GPS, or into a laptop with a GPS, and be able to say Bing - your | plane is here (give or take 3 meters). Well, if you had any sort of telemetry at all, and it was still functioning after the crash, you could use standard transmitter location techniques (your local hams could help with that) to find it. At least until the battery died. They do sell transmitters meant for plane location, I see them advertised in the AMA magazine every month, but they're mostly meant for free flight planes and I don't know if you'd really want to use them. Basically they just consist of a transmitter and a receiver with a directional antenna. Does anybody sell something that has a GPS and transmits it's coordinates? It could certainly be done, though I'd personally rather just spend my money on a telemetry transmitter of some sort (I'm really tempted to. Are there any out there that are relatively inexpensive?) and make a directional antenna for my receiver `just in case'. Though I've never run into a case where my Hobbico Air Alerts didn't let me find my lost planes pretty quickly. | P.S. (I've already said it) - I really loved that airplane. A 7037 | Compulsion is an excellent aircraft. Good luck ... hopefully you'll get a phone call soon, from somebody who found this glider that did a nice landing in their grassy field. -- Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED] /earth: file system full. Please delete anybody you can. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] I ain't got it procedure. (I can't see it.)
We should all have a chosen I ain't got it procedure. Don't leave the choosing until you loose sight of it. However the specific procedure should be chosen based on the plane's behavior. Try all methods you can think of. Select the one that has minimal decent, straightest decent, max flash, whatever you think is best. The Skip Miller procedure is pretty good. Personally, I prefer the Tim Cone Stick in a Lower Corner method. Depends on whether the plane has flaps or not. Try as many as you can think of and see which you prefer. Bill Swingle RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Loss of airplane, and - how to find it
Actually, I stated that wrong, it won't say attention! but will give you an announcement that you didn't initiate, here is how you do it... (From the Picolario user manual, which is online) Failsafe detection with PCM receiver They have a predefined setting. You can use the requested altitude information to detect if your PCM receiver has gone into failsafe mode. You have to program the channel of the Picolario that it goes to 150% (2ms) during Failsafe. During flying you have set your switch at middle position or off. If you receive an announcement which has not been requested by you, you know that your PCM receiver has gone into failsafe mode. It is always amazing what our spirit lets us do. At 11:35 AM 8/27/2004, James V. Bacus wrote: The other thing the Picolario can do is if you have a PCM system, it can be set up to transmit Attention! anytime your system goes into fail-safe or fail-hold. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537 LSF 7560 Level IV ICQ: 6997780 AIM: InventorJim R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net
Re: [RCSE] Loss of airplane, and - how to find it
DIRECTIONAL!! Anything that transmits a signal from the plane and could be received directionally would be priceless. Bill Swingle RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] Loss of airplane, and - how to find it
Hopefully you'll be able to open this link. The ESL has been using this system for a long time and it seems expensive - until the first time you need one. http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=95 Kerry DIRECTIONAL!! Anything that transmits a signal from the plane and could be received directionally would be priceless. Bill Swingle RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Loss of airplane, and - how to find it
More Piccolario stories, I did loss my 2m Duck a week ago. With the Piccolario reporting, I was going in. As the plane got closer to the ground (full crow) the voice became more distorted. On the ground It reported 4 feet. I lost the signal temporally walking closer to the plane. This is a good thing since I was in a hilly, wooded area. As I picked up the signal it was weaker iet. Now I used the Piccolario radio (not the RC radio) as a directional antenna by pointing the small antenna level to the ground rotating 360°.like a searchlight. At the weakest signal I was pointing directly at the glider. I started walking looking for the signal strength to improve ( the voice became louder and better) but still looking for the week spot. Out of the trees I was looking at a corn field 8feet tall..! Some where in this mess was the plane. Getting readings holding the radio next to the ground ( still looking for the week signal). Pointing at the plane I walked straight line on to the glider, not seeing it till 5 feet from it. I did this with out help for the last part of the search. Practic this technic, It will fined you the lost plane. Peter RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] I can't see it.
What is the longest time between the time that a person has lost sight of their plane and then regained sight of it and brought it down safely. Buddy Roos I lost sight of an old Addiction for several minutes one afternoon. It was way high, and the durn thing bladed out on me getting back to the field. I searched the skies for a few minutes, and finally gave it up. I was loading the truck and just happened to look up, there it was a couple hunderd feet downwind and maybe 75 feet in the air heading right towards me. I had to get the transmitter out of the case and turn it on to land it. Needless to say that plane will never get sold or traded. I didn't have a watch on it (more ways than one) but it was at least 5 minutes. Seemed like forever. I was there the day Stevie lost his plane from the same field - he lost that one really good. A couple weeks ago I got lucky and spotted Greg Smith's beautiful Challenger - it was at least twice as high when I spotted it than it was when he lost sight of it. Transparent yellow monokote wings are invisible against a blue sky. I waited until it flew under a cloud before I started looking. And then there was the day I got to be the Mayor of the beanfield in Muncie. Thanks to JT for helping me find that one. No more green wings for me. happy trails - Rob RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] TFR - 8/27/04
What makes me even more spit'n mad, is that if I get tapped on the shoulder for flying a frisbee in a designated no-fly zone, I'll lose my FAA issue pilot's license. That's right, I don't have to be operating a real airplane for them to revoke it. So, next week I can hardly get to work. If I stay home I can't fly my real airplane and the AMA wants to leave my toys at home too. Yea, I feel real safe now. -Ben Doug McLaren wrote: On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 09:04:46PM -0500, Doug McLaren wrote: | Not that it's up to the AMA, but also this link -- | |http://www.faa.gov/Newsroom/highlights/rnc_fa2.htm | | *does* explcitly mention that model airplanes are not permitted. To expand on that, that link is to the revised flight advisory. The original post gave a link to the original flight advisory. This page is linked to from -- http://www.faa.gov/ Click on `Pilots: Flight Restrictions', which takes you to http://www.faa.gov/Newsroom/highlights/rnc_flight_advisory.cfm It doesn't seem to prohibit model airplanes everywhere, but there are certain areas where it definately does seem to explicitly prohibit their use. And of course this isn't the final NOTAM, so things could change further before it becomes official ... Ultimately, you've got to choose your battles. I don't think this would be a good battle to choose ... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] TFR - 8/27/04
If you'd read past the first paragraph you'd probably see if for yourself: http://www.faa.gov/Newsroom/highlights/rnc_fa2.htm Chime this, pal. Kevin At 10:11 PM 8/27/2004 -0400, Ben Diss wrote: I have no idea where you got that. Here is the TFR in effect in the NYC area from Aug 30 - Sep 1. Skip ahead to Part 5. It does mention model aircraft (I stand corrected). However, if you READ IT, you'll see that it specifies very specific areas that the restriction applies. You can't fly a model airplane into Newark at ANY time. Again, the AMA is out of touch. BTW, I love how people chime in and are so eager to just roll over on this nonesense. I own and operate a REAL aircraft out of Westchester. I work in a building ONE BLOCK from where the RNC is being held. I live this crap every day. Now the AMA wants to take away my toys too? -Ben --- 4/9053 ZNY PART 1 OF 6 FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS NEW YORK METRO AREA, NY. EFFECTIVE FROM 0408301100 UTC (0700 LOCAL ON AUGUST 30, 2004) UNTIL 0409012259 UTC (1859 LOCAL ON SEPTEMBER 1, 2004). PURSUANT TO TITLE 14 SECTION 91.141 CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATION (CFR) ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED WITHIN A 7 NMR OF 404501N/0735938W (LGA VOR/DME 263 RADIAL 6 NM FIX), FROM THE SURFACE UP TO BUT NOT INCLUDING FL180, EXCLUDING A 2 NMR OF 405055N/0740344W (TEB VOR/DME), AT AND BELOW 2000 FEET MSL, EXCEPT AS DESCRIBED IN PART A BELOW. EFFECTIVE FROM 0408301100 UTC (0700 LOCAL ON AUGUST 30, 2004) UNTIL 0409012259 (1859 LOCAL ON SEPTEMBER 1, 2004), ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED WITHIN NEW YORK CLASS B AIRSPACE, FROM THE SURFACE, UP TO BUT NOT INCLUDING FL180, EXCEPT AS DESCRIBED IN PART B. BELOW. THIS AREA IS DEPICTED ON THE AREA DEFINED BY THE NEW YORK VFR TERMINAL AREA CHART, AS THE CLASS B AIRSPACE LGA 20 NM, JFK 20 NM, AND EWR 20 NM BOUNDARIES. THE AIRSPACE WITHIN A 3 NMR OF 404400N/0732330W (DPK VOR/DME 241 RADIAL 5 NM FIX), AT AND BELOW 2000 FEET MSL AND THE AIRSPACE WITHIN A 3 NMR OF 410500N/0734125W (CMK VOR/DME 215 RADIAL 13 NM FIX), AT AND BELOW 2000 FEET MSL, IS EXCLUDED FOR ARRIVALS AND DEPARTURES ONLY TO/FROM FARMINGDALE REPUBLIC, NY (FRG) AND WESTCHESTER COUNTY, NY (HPN) AIRPORTS. END PART 1 OF 6 PART 2 OF 6 FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS NEW YORK METRO AREA, PART A. INNER AREA ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED WITHIN A 7 NMR OF 404501N/0735938W (LGA VOR/DME 263 RADIAL 6 NM FIX), FROM THE SURFACE, UP TO BUT NOT INCLUDING FL180, EXCEPT FOR THE FOLLOWING OPERATIONS AND AS DESCRIBED BELOW: 1. LAW ENFORCEMENT AND MILITARY AIRCRAFT DIRECTLY SUPPORTING THE UNITED STATES SECRET SERVICE (USSS), PRECOORDINATED EMERGENCY MEDICAL FLIGHTS AND OTHER OPERATIONS APPROVED BY THE USSS. REGULARLY SCHEDULED COMMERCIAL PASSENGER AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN COMPLIANCE WITH THEIR APPROVED TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION (TSA) SECURITY PROGRAM AND CARGO AIRCRAFT THAT MEET OR EXCEED THE TSA(S) DOMESTIC SECURITY INTEGRATION PROGRAM (DSIP) OR ITS EQUIVLENT AND ARE ARRIVING INTO AND/OR ARE DEPARTING FROM LGA, EWR, AND JFK. 2. ONLY ESTABLISHED SIGHTSEEING VFR HELICOPTER OPERATIONS ARRIVING AND DEPARTING THE WEST 30TH STREET (JRA) AND PORT AUTHORITY-DOWNTOWN-MANHATTAN/WALL STREET (JRB) HELIPORTS THAT HAVE BEEN TSA SECURITY SCREENED AT A GATEWAY AIRPORT, BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 1100 UTC UNTIL 2300 UTC (0700 LOCAL-1900 LOCAL). OVERFLIGHTS OF MANHATTAN ARE NOT PERMITTED. 3. ALL EMERGENCY MEDICAL FLIGHT OPERATIONS SHALL BE COORDINATED END PART 2 OF 6 PART 3 OF 6 FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS NEW YORK METRO AREA. IN ADVANCE WITH THE FAA SUPERVISOR AT THE NEW YORK TRACON, AT 516-683-2984 TO AVOID POTENTIAL DELAYS. 4. ALL AIRCRAFT SHALL SQUAWK A DISCRETE TRANSPONDER CODE ASSIGNED BY ATC. ALL AIRCRAFT SHALL SQUAWK THE DISCRETE TRANSPONDER CODE PRIOR TO DEPARTURE AND AT ALL TIMES WITHIN THE TFR. IN THE EVENT OF A TRANSPONDER FAILURE, THE PILOT SHALL ADVISE ATC AND ATC WILL PROVIDE THE MOST DIRECT COURSE TO OUTSIDE THE LATERAL LIMITS OF THE TFR. 5. ALL AIRCRAFT MUST REMAIN IN TWO-WAY RADIO COMMUNICATIONS WITH ATC. PART B. OUTER AREA PROCEDURES FOR AIRCRAFT OPERATING WITHIN THE NY CLASS B TFR FROM 7 NMR TO THE CLASS B 20 NM BOUNDARY, FROM THE SURFACE, UP TO BUT NOT INCLUDING FL180, ARE LISTED BELOW: 1. FIXED WING AIRCRAFT SHALL BE ON AN ACTIVE IFR OR VFR FLIGHT PLAN FILED WITH AN AFSS. 2. ALL AIRCRAFT SHALL SQUAWK A DISCRETE TRANSPONDER CODE ASSIGNED BY ATC. ALL AIRCRAFT SHALL SQUAWK THE DISCRETE TRANSPONDER CODE PRIOR TO DEPARTURE AND AT ALL TIMES WITHIN THE TFR. IN THE EVENT OF A TRANSPONDER FAILURE, THE PILOT SHALL ADVISE ATC AND ATC WILL PROVIDE THE MOST DIRECT COURSE TO OUTSIDE THE LATERAL LIMITS OF END PART 3 OF 6 PART 4 OF 6 FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS NEW YORK METRO AREA. THE TFR. 3. ALL AIRCRAFT MUST REMAIN IN TWO-WAY RADIO COMMUNICATIONS WITH ATC. 4. FIXED WING OPERATIONS ARE LIMITED TO AIRCRAFT ARRIVING OR DEPARTING LOCAL AIRFIELDS. AIRCRAFT MAY NOT LOITER. 5. HELICOPTER
RE: [RCSE] TFR - 8/27/04
Sure looks like it DOES to me! Thanks for posting the pertinent section Kevin! -Original Message-From: Kevin Sheen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 9:48 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [RCSE] TFR - 8/27/04Really??Other Unauthorized Operations: The following aeronautical operations are not authorized within the New York Class B Airspace LGA 20 NM, JFK 20 NM, and EWR 20 NM boundaries, up to but not including FL 180: flight training, practice instrument approaches, aerobatic flight, glider operations, parachute operations, ultralight, hang gliding, balloon operations, agriculture/crop dusting, fish spotters, animal population control flight operations, banner towing operations, utility line/pipeline inspection flights, Part 101 operations, model aircraft operations, model rocketry, remotely operated aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles and commercial cargo carrier operations that fail to comply with their TSA approved security program. KevinAt 08:18 PM 8/27/2004 -0400, you wrote: Wow. Once again AMA hasn't a clue. This TFR DOES NOT restrict model airplane flying. It doesn't even mentioni t.-BenSteve Siebenaler wrote: Posted today on the AMA Web Site...Notice to AMA members, especially those residing or operating their model aircraft within 20 Nautical Miles (NM) of JFK, La Guardia, and Newark airports.The Federal Aviation Administration has established Temporary Flight Restrictions (TFR) for the areas mentioned above. There will be no model aircraft operations allowed to take place within these restricted areas.This TFR will begin at 7:00 p.m. local time on September 1, 2004, and continue to 6:59 am local time on September 3, 2004.We are sharing this information for the purpose of advising our members of the serious nature of this TFR and urging all to cooperate by abiding by the rules as stated.For a complete description off the TFR click www.faa.gov/Newsroom/highlights/rnc_fa.htm http://www.faa.gov/Newsroom/highlights/rnc_fa.htmWe strongly encourage all members to be cooperative and understanding these times of special national security concerns and as always, if you should have additional questions please contact Jay Mealy. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Steve SiebenalerCincinnati, Ohio USA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] TFR - 8/27/04
Sheldon- This section does not appear ANYWHERE in the TFR. While I agree that the TFR does contain the words model aircraft I fail to see why the AMA doesn't want us to fly. -Ben Sheldon - YNT uDesign wrote: Sure looks like it DOES to me! Thanks for posting the pertinent section Kevin! -Original Message- From: Kevin Sheen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 9:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] TFR - 8/27/04 Really?? Other Unauthorized Operations: The following aeronautical operations are not authorized within the New York Class B Airspace LGA 20 NM, JFK 20 NM, and EWR 20 NM boundaries, up to but not including FL 180: flight training, practice instrument approaches, aerobatic flight, glider operations, parachute operations, ultralight, hang gliding, balloon operations, agriculture/crop dusting, fish spotters, animal population control flight operations, banner towing operations, utility line/pipeline inspection flights, Part 101 operations, model aircraft operations, model rocketry, remotely operated aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles and commercial cargo carrier operations that fail to comply with their TSA approved security program. Kevin At 08:18 PM 8/27/2004 -0400, you wrote: Wow. Once again AMA hasn't a clue. This TFR DOES NOT restrict model airplane flying. It doesn't even mentioni t. -Ben Steve Siebenaler wrote: Posted today on the AMA Web Site... Notice to AMA members, especially those residing or operating their model aircraft within 20 Nautical Miles (NM) of JFK, La Guardia, and Newark airports. The Federal Aviation Administration has established Temporary Flight Restrictions (TFR) for the areas mentioned above. There will be no model aircraft operations allowed to take place within these restricted areas. This TFR will begin at 7:00 p.m. local time on September 1, 2004, and continue to 6:59 am local time on September 3, 2004. We are sharing this information for the purpose of advising our members of the serious nature of this TFR and urging all to cooperate by abiding by the rules as stated. For a complete description off the TFR click www.faa.gov/Newsroom/highlights/rnc_fa.htm http://www.faa.gov/Newsroom/highlights/rnc_fa.htm http://www.faa.gov/Newsroom/highlights/rnc_fa.htm We strongly encourage all members to be cooperative and understanding these times of special national security concerns and as always, if you should have additional questions please contact Jay Mealy. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve Siebenaler Cincinnati, Ohio USA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] TFR - 8/27/04
Ben, You may be pissed at the AMA for 'butting' in, but remember they are the organization that regulates our model flying operations, IN COORDINATION with the FAA. So my advice to you is, go ahead and fly where ever you want to, just don't cause any problems, and if you do, don't come crying here, you ask for it. Jerry At 07:15 PM 8/27/2004, Ben Diss wrote: Doug- Read the TFR carefully. Name one location where flying model airplanes are now prohibited, that we normally fly. We NEVER fly a model in the Class 'B'. I'm not pissed at the FAA and I'm only moderately pissed at the TSA. What really gets me is how AMA is so willing to give up our rights. -Ben Doug McLaren wrote: On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 09:39:16PM -0400, Ben Diss wrote: | FAA has not and does not regulate model airplanes. | | The FAA defines aircraft as a device that is used or intended to be | used for flight in the air. According to your logic I cannot throw a | ball in the park and certainly a frisbee is out of the question. | | Think about it. I see your argument, but it's a bit idealistic. If you do fly where the FAA has said you may not fly, on the assumption that the FAA has no authority to say where you can and cannot fly, you're likely to lose, period. Even if you ultimately prevail in the courts, you'll still lose. It's not right, but it's the way things are. In any event, http://www.modelaircraft.org/mag/0804/president.htm gives a reasonably convincing argument that suggests that the FAA *does* think it can regulate model aircraft. Not that it's up to the AMA, but also this link -- http://www.faa.gov/Newsroom/highlights/rnc_fa2.htm *does* explcitly mention that model airplanes are not permitted. I don't like the idea of the FAA saying we can't fly somewhere any more than anybody else, but be realistic -- even if the FAA really doesn't have the needed authority (a matter for the courts to decide), they think they do, and the FBI/Secret Service/Local Law Enforcement/etc will think they do, and they'll probably overreact nicely upon finding you flying. Perhaps it would be worked out in the courts, later (if they even care enough to worry about what the actual law says -- and the AMA would probably distance themselves from you as well), but either way, I can pretty much guarantee that our hobby would lose. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] TFR - 8/27/04
I'm just conjecturing but maybe we're in a gray area at this time and the government has yet place us officially under their jurisdiction (FAA)? Under the banner of national security, etc the government can and probably would start considering our hobby...Not a good thing for us. I don't know but as someone else stated, you have to pick your battle and this might not be a good to pick. -Original Message- From: Ben Diss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Kevin Sheen'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] TFR - 8/27/04 Sheldon- This section does not appear ANYWHERE in the TFR. While I agree that the TFR does contain the words model aircraft I fail to see why the AMA doesn't want us to fly. -Ben Sheldon - YNT uDesign wrote: Sure looks like it DOES to me! Thanks for posting the pertinent section Kevin! -Original Message- From: Kevin Sheen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 9:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] TFR - 8/27/04 Really?? Other Unauthorized Operations: The following aeronautical operations are not authorized within the New York Class B Airspace LGA 20 NM, JFK 20 NM, and EWR 20 NM boundaries, up to but not including FL 180: flight training, practice instrument approaches, aerobatic flight, glider operations, parachute operations, ultralight, hang gliding, balloon operations, agriculture/crop dusting, fish spotters, animal population control flight operations, banner towing operations, utility line/pipeline inspection flights, Part 101 operations, model aircraft operations, model rocketry, remotely operated aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles and commercial cargo carrier operations that fail to comply with their TSA approved security program. Kevin At 08:18 PM 8/27/2004 -0400, you wrote: Wow. Once again AMA hasn't a clue. This TFR DOES NOT restrict model airplane flying. It doesn't even mentioni t. -Ben Steve Siebenaler wrote: Posted today on the AMA Web Site... Notice to AMA members, especially those residing or operating their model aircraft within 20 Nautical Miles (NM) of JFK, La Guardia, and Newark airports. The Federal Aviation Administration has established Temporary Flight Restrictions (TFR) for the areas mentioned above. There will be no model aircraft operations allowed to take place within these restricted areas. This TFR will begin at 7:00 p.m. local time on September 1, 2004, and continue to 6:59 am local time on September 3, 2004. We are sharing this information for the purpose of advising our members of the serious nature of this TFR and urging all to cooperate by abiding by the rules as stated. For a complete description off the TFR click www.faa.gov/Newsroom/highlights/rnc_fa.htm http://www.faa.gov/Newsroom/highlights/rnc_fa.htm http://www.faa.gov/Newsroom/highlights/rnc_fa.htm We strongly encourage all members to be cooperative and understanding these times of special national security concerns and as always, if you should have additional questions please contact Jay Mealy. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve Siebenaler Cincinnati, Ohio USA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] NEW LSF 2 !
Congrats, good going Gordy!!! (nice job Marc) 8-) At 08:47 PM 8/27/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So it was windy and hot at the louisville field, Marc Gellart calls this morning and says he's coming my wayget the winch tuned up!'. We get out there at about 5pm and its blowing and steamy. LSF 2 is two 15mins and 10, 5' landings6 were done yesterday and one of the 15's was done Sunday during a 2 hour (okay so it was stupid easy air). Tonite the 15 min was tougher, first it starts with Marc doing a speed run over my head and tangles in the tree I'm near. It tumbles down to a height just out of reach standing on my truck top. Then an ice cream truck pulls up, chimes a roaring. Inside is a 6' + kid who pulls the big van under the plane, hops on top and lifts it out. Only a ding way out on a wing tip...he made his biggest tip of his life and Marc was back on the line immediately. Then I put up the Picless Pike and hop into a fast moving piece of air. It ain't great but its working. I stayed with it till I could barely make out the Pike and had to head back. It was bad coming home into that head wind and alternating sink in and puffs of lift. Still needed 6 mins...I hook some of those puffs for minor pieces of altitude and big losses in distance for getting home. Nothin but woods under the plane. I make it back but now I am at the level of the wires between the field and plane, as in low wires and three of them with small tree tops mixed in...a definite barrier. March watching at this point and sweating from more than the humidity. But just as I got to the wires with a full minute left, 50' of altitude, a nice puff of lift came thru and the Pike came alive, I just pushed into it and rode it up wind of the landing air as the clock talked down the seconds, no problem and about a 90. So all you aspiring L5's who need qualified witnesses better be nice to me. L2 is in the bag. Gordy Mid Am or bust. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537 LSF 7560 Level IV ICQ: 6997780 AIM: InventorJim R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net
Re: [RCSE] I can't see it.
At 09:20 PM 8/27/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I lost sight of an old Addiction for several minutes one afternoon. It was way high, and the durn thing bladed out on me getting back to the field. I searched the skies for a few minutes, and finally gave it up. I was loading the truck and just happened to look up, there it was a couple hunderd feet downwind and maybe 75 feet in the air heading right towards me. I had to get the transmitter out of the case and turn it on to land it. Needless to say that plane will never get sold or traded. I didn't have a watch on it (more ways than one) but it was at least 5 minutes. Seemed like forever. WOW!!! And then there was the day I got to be the Mayor of the beanfield in Muncie. Thanks to JT for helping me find that one. No more green wings for me. 8-)) Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV ICQ: 6997780 AIM: InventorJim R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Final MSL Contest 2004
On September 25th, 2004, the Greater Detroit Soaring and Hiking Society, better known as the GDSHS, will host the final MSL, Michigan Soaring League, event of the year, at Addison Oaks Park, 9 miles north of Rochester, MI. Four classes will be flown. Unlimited Two Meter Nostalgia RES Trophies to 3rd place each class. Additionally the final awards for MSL will also be awarded. The best pilots in the Michigan area will be there competing for the final positions in MSL. Don't miss this event, one of thebest contests of the season. Watch this space for a flyer with directions and timing within 2 or 3 days. Regards, Dave Corven. CD. AMA 878, LSF 254.
Re: [RCSE] Re: F3B Batteries at the Nats
This is simply an fyi, and is in no means intended to be a slam. Be careful about expecting a full charge on the batteries. Full charge to a battery supplier seems to mean that it will start your car once. The batteries we picked up for F3B at the Nats were good for one, maybe two launches each. Don't expect to pick them up, and fly without charging. Dave did a great job arranging batteries for those who needed them. And they worked out great after charging. Thanks Dave for pulling all this together again. D ___ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
