Re: [RCSE] 51 MHz base loaded antenna for 9303
Larry Taylor wrote: The Small Ant will not radiate off the end... Indeed it will. I'm not making this up. Read what Peter Berg, designer of Berg receivers, has to say about the tests he performed: http://www.bergent.net/antenna_field_test.html CONCLUSION: Pointing a whip antenna at the plane is BAD, and pointing a rubber duck antenna at the plane is GOOD. These measurements proved nothing new. We have known for a long time that the antenna patterns are as described... Mike -- Winch Solenoid Safety Buzzer - http://www.vvsss.com/buzzer/ _ \__|__/ (O) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Re: Programming tricks help
Here is Joe's article from Horizon Hobby website. http://www.horizonhobby.com/Explore/Article.aspx?ArticleID=1432 John D -Original Message- From: Joe Wurts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 1:13 AM To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Re: Programming tricks help Jim, I found that the stock manual that is supplied with the radio did a pretty good job for me in explaining the how of the programming. From what I can glean from your email, you are looking for more of the what or even the why of how you set up an airplane. I wrote up my thoughts on programming the 9303 a while ago, and sent it off to JR. I've heard that it is available on their website somewhere, but I've not ever hunted it down. I'm sure that someone on RCSE will kindly assist here in locating the URL. I've done some of what you are talking about, including the softer throws for the thermal mode (along with up trim), different aileron to rudder coupling for different flight modes, etc. One thing that I've gotten away from, is the concept of a separate landing mode. I just know that I'll forget to activate the landing mode in the stress of a difficult flight, so I just don't have a landing mode (I've seen others that have a separate landing mode get in trouble when they forget to enable their landing mode before landing). I have just two switches active on the Tx, the launch switch, and the three position flight mode switch. The launch switch institutes the launch mode regardless of where the three position switch is. The flight mode switch is active when the launch mode is not selected, and it has speed, cruise, and thermal modes. The speed mode has a bit of down trim, little differential, little ailrud coupling, along with the 1-2 degrees of reflex (airfoil dependent). The cruise mode has the trailing edge in the neutral point, neutral elevator, a little bit more ailrud coupling, and a bit more differential in the ailerons. The thermal mode has about 3 degrees of camber, lots of ailrud coupling, a bit of up elevator preset, and about the same differential as the speed mode. Also, I cut the aileron and elevator throws in half for the thermal mode, which helps me to fly smoother when thermalling. The low differential for thermalling is because it is less draggy to use the rudder than a spoileron for coordinating a roll input. I have the crow on for all flight modes, as there are times that I'll forget to be in the proper mode for landing. One thing, I typically don't have to worry about being in thermal mode for landing, because the sluggish plane response in thermal mode is a very positive reminder not to start a landing approach in thermal mode! Also, I like having the camber slider active for landing so that I can slip in some extra camber if I end up needing to get a little extra float if I accidentally slow the plane down too much on final. If the air is exceptionally turbulent, or I am doing very low level thermalling, I'll leave the plane in the cruise mode, but add camber using the side slider. Other than that, and in stretching the landing, I use the flight mode switch to define the camber, and don't bother with using the side slider. To me, it is easier to just put a switch in the appropriate position dependent on what type of air that I'm in, and not have to worry about adjusting the camber all of the time. Another item that I do that doesn't seem to be typical, is that I always have my elevator to camber mixing active. It is nice to have more lift capability when I pull some elevator, regardless of which flight mode I'm in. Finally, the launch mode has full span camber, typically about 12 to 15 degrees of camber. The differential is set to between 80 and 90%, with as much ailrud mix as possible. The large differential is because the trailing edge is already set to produce the maximum amount of lift out of the wing. If more downward deflection would produce more lift, then I'd put it in the preset (an oversimplification, but should get the concept across). BTW, I put in the speed/thermal amount of aileron differential in via end point adjustments, and use the differential function to put in the required differential for cruise and launch. One can typically do the above setup methodology on the 9303 with the stock supplied mixes, and you do not have to use any extra free mixes. This is nice because it makes it easier to hunt down the appropriate menu to make changes. Joe Wurts Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:37:48 -0500 From: James R MacLean [EMAIL PROTECTED] So I have got this nifty new JR9303 radio and a beloved full house sailplane. I know the plane flies very well and all the servos are set up etc. The flight program resides in a Futaba transmitter so I am starting over again pretty much. Neutrals and reversing is a piece of cake but now I have five flight modes if I want them and all sorts of flexibility to play with I didn't have before. Here is the
[RCSE] programming tricks
Joe, thanks for sharing your setup tricks. I notice you always use more ail-rud coupling for thermal modes, both TD and HLG. What do you do during circling, when you need to give some opposite aileron to counteract the over-banking tendency? I always disable ail-rud coupling in thermal mode for that specific reason. When circling, I use the left stick to give a little in rudder and, of course, the right stick to give a little out ailerons. If you enable high ratio of ail-rud mix during circling, any outside aileron input will screw up your circle. I use ail-rud coupling in cruise mode, but as soon as I start circling I turn it off. Regards, Oleg. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Programming tricks help
Although I am not an engineer, I play one on RCSE... Just kidding. If you want a meat and potatoes simple explanation of flight modes and how easy it is to set them up see a review I wrote on the 9303. http://www.scalesoaring.net/EMM/9303.htm#Throttle%20hold The flight modes are very easy to program with the use of the trim buttons on the top of the radio, they require no use of program mixes, just set the switch in question to a position, set trim values (on your control surfaces), and move on to the next. the manual to me, and my nonlinear way of thinking, makes it sound vastly more complex than it really is. JD The other one... Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: James R MacLean [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 9:38 PM To: soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Programming tricks help So I have got this nifty new JR9303 radio and a beloved full house sailplane. I know the plane flies very well and all the servos are set up etc. The flight program resides in a Futaba transmitter so I am starting over again pretty much. Neutrals and reversing is a piece of cake but now I have five flight modes if I want them and all sorts of flexibility to play with I didn't have before. Here is the question: anyone have a write up on programming philosophy with this radio addressing useful tricks or helpful tips? I am thinking something like using the THERMAL mode to enable camber control on the slider, soften up the control throws, add a bit of up trim, and remove aileron to rudder coupling. Butterfly enables only during landing mode and camber is removed. How would aileron differential or aileron to flap coupling change for SPEED mode? What is the best method to put in aileron differential - it can be done with control throw adjustment and/or the aileron differential program? As you can see the questions can go on and on. Anyone who really knows this radio and their plane written down some answers? I have successfully programmed, flight trimmed, and competed with my Image. It all was fun and the plane (maybe not the pilot!) flew well. I thought before I went through this again for my other planes, asking for advice would be a good idea. Thanks to any who respond!! Jim MacLean Melbourne, FL RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] programming tricks
On Thursday 24 March 2005 09:34 am, Oleg Golovidov wrote: Joe, thanks for sharing your setup tricks. I notice you always use more ail-rud coupling for thermal modes, both TD and HLG. What do you do during circling, when you need to give some opposite aileron to counteract the over-banking tendency? I always disable ail-rud coupling in thermal mode for that specific reason. When circling, I use the left stick to give a little in rudder and, of course, the right stick to give a little out ailerons. If you enable high ratio of ail-rud mix during circling, any outside aileron input will screw up your circle. I use ail-rud coupling in cruise mode, but as soon as I start circling I turn it off. Regards, Oleg. I may be incorrect but I thought a properly set up and aerodynamically stable plane shouldn't require outside aileron. As soon as you neutralize the ailerons, shouldn't the plane maintain it's bank angle? Maybe in a perfect setup but I know a lot of my ships I have had to manually fly this way, too. I always assumed it was due to poor setup (differential, throw volume, rigging, etc) or design. Jim RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] programming tricks
No, that is a natural tendency of all airplanes in a circling flight. The inside wing travels at a slower speed and requires a higher AoA than the outside wing to produce the same amount of lift. Outside aileron deflection equalizes the lift. The amount of deflection depends on the turning radius and speed. Very slow flying planes (low wing lowding) are capable of very small turn radii and will need a lot of outside aileron in a circling flight. A laterally stable plane (with enough dihedral) can fly in a circling path without the outside ailerons deflection, but only at the expence of some sliding into the circle and the resulting extra drag. In other words, if you are not using some in rudder and out ailerons during a circling flight, you are not flying efficiently. Regards, Oleg. From: Jim Carlton [EMAIL PROTECTED] I may be incorrect but I thought a properly set up and aerodynamically stable plane shouldn't require outside aileron. As soon as you neutralize the ailerons, shouldn't the plane maintain it's bank angle? Maybe in a perfect setup but I know a lot of my ships I have had to manually fly this way, too. I always assumed it was due to poor setup (differential, throw volume, rigging, etc) or design. Jim RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Safety rules - do you have them?
I was surprised that this didnt start a bigger discussion yesterday. Safety is something that all of us should keep in the forefront of our minds as we go to the field, even though its probably not something we like to discuss. Its similar to getting a will we all know how important it is, but its certainly not a fun/happy topic to discuss. I received three private responses: One person asked for a compile, as their fields only rules are You must be AMA, and no low high speed passes over pilots. Both of which are good rules, mind you, but wow. There are still a lot of opportunities for disaster with this group. Another person sent me their groups safety rules and bylaws. This group does DS; its certainly encouraging to see that folks involved in such an extreme sport have some rules around safe DS flying. I admit Ive never done DS, but I know that it can be extremely dangerous (and therefore, such a rush!) Finally, there was a person who said that creating formal safety rules was a recipe for disaster. He had some good points: AMA doesnt have formal safety rules. They have a Safety Code (guidelines by which to live) Rules become points for litigation Rules provide loopholes for site officials and insurance providers This persons final statement was: the single force powerful enough to destroy a club and lose a flying site is safety rules. All three of these folks provided some interesting and valuable feedback and insight. What about others? Id love to see more input and comments on the topic of safety. Even if you dont want to reply to the exchange, Id appreciate private replies and suggestions. Ill be more than happy to provide an anonymous summary as I did above. Thanks again for your time. - Dave _ From: Dave Brombaugh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 08:39 To: soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Safety rules - do you have them? I tend to start decent discussions with my posts, hopefully this will be a good one too. Ive been selected as the safety officer for the Seattle Area Soaring Society (SASS) this year. I have been tasked with updating our Safety rules, and providing a nice, simple handout that covers both AMAs and SASS safety rules. Im including a snippet of the rules we used from last year. Note there are some of these with which I do not necessarily agree, which is why Im looking for alternative ideas (and, just general experience and ideas from all of you out there!). The SASS field is open for use for model rocketry, small electrics (Zagi-type/speed and smaller), and of course, soaring. While this sounds like a recipe for disaster, weve been pretty successful so far. Folks launching on the winch are very aware of people wandering around the field at/near launch, For those of you who are at a strict sailplane field what are some of your safety rules? For those of you who have combined electrics/sailplanes at the same field what are some of your safety rules, specifically around the interaction between the electric and sailplane pilots? Finally, for those clubs with websites, could you provide me pointers to your safety rules online, such that I can plagiarize^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Huse them as a potential resource? Thanks again for your assistance, everyone! - Dave SASS 2004 rules snippet: * AMA required (even for 27MHz Firebirds) * Electrics in electric area * 4 electric pilots at a time, standing in pilot stations * Size limit for electrics (park flier size, stock speed 400, or as deemed acceptable by a member of the safety committee) * Prohibit Flying low over soccer fields/116th St/parking area/pits when occupied * Prohibit Launching planes from pits (area around frequency board) * Prohibit 1st flights away from pits * Check aircraft for flight worthiness * Winch training required to operate winch 2004 Electric Park Flier Rules * All fliers must have AMA Insurance and post it on frequency board (this INCLUDES aircraft flown on 27MHz frequencies) * Pilots MUST stand in individual pilot stations at West edge of field * Maximum of 4 Park Fliers in air at a time * Park fliers are limited to slow-flier stock aircraft with stock Speed 400 motor or smaller (unless certified by member of SASS Safety Committee) * Park fliers MUST limit flying to western 1/3 of field as indicated by marker posts (see map). No flying over the rest of field is permitted * Pilots may NOT walk directly across electric field when approaching flying stations. Pilots should walk to the western edge of the field first, then proceed south (or north) to the pilot stations, being aware of other aircraft in the air at all times * Electric assisted sailplanes are permitted to fly anywhere at 60-Acres and are not restricted in size or power. They are to be
Re: [RCSE] Re: Programming tricks help
The thermal mode has about 3 degrees of camber, lots of ailrud coupling, a bit of up elevator preset, and about the same differential as the speed mode. Now this is very interesting. Someone with a much lower AMA number than mine used preach to me that real pilots don't us ailrud coupling. They learn how to fly properly with both thumbs. So now I've wasted all those years trying to learning how to fly with both thumbs for nothing? ;-) In reality, I suspect most of the best pilots use a combination of coupling and two thumb flying. Randy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Programming tricks help
At 11:11 AM 3/24/2005, you wrote: The thermal mode has about 3 degrees of camber, lots of ailrud coupling, a bit of up elevator preset, and about the same differential as the speed mode. Now this is very interesting. Someone with a much lower AMA number than mine used preach to me that real pilots don't us ailrud coupling. They learn how to fly properly with both thumbs. So now I've wasted all those years trying to learning how to fly with both thumbs for nothing? ;-) In reality, I suspect most of the best pilots use a combination of coupling and two thumb flying. Randy I didn't need aileron-rudder coupling until I could no longer get good single stick transmitters. Coordinating turns was much easier when the rudder was the knob on top of the aileron stick. I gave up two-stick transmitters back in 1971 because I could never get the right rudder input for slow rolls and 4-point rolls. With single stick, I didn't need exponential or duel rate modes either. Then the real Ace went out of business and I could not get new Micropro transmitters. :-( Chuck Anderson RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Re: Programming tricks help
Ah, Yes, I thought that way [mixing with your brain] for a while. But once you start flying at the limit of vision it is very difficult to see if your inputs are anywhere near correct. Set up properly, it is much better to let the radio handle the mixing. It's easy enough to put it on a switch to turn it off when you do not want or need the mixing. Kerry The thermal mode has about 3 degrees of camber, lots of ailrud coupling, a bit of up elevator preset, and about the same differential as the speed mode. Now this is very interesting. Someone with a much lower AMA number than mine used preach to me that real pilots don't us ailrud coupling. They learn how to fly properly with both thumbs. So now I've wasted all those years trying to learning how to fly with both thumbs for nothing? ;-) In reality, I suspect most of the best pilots use a combination of coupling and two thumb flying. Randy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] JR-9303 musings
A week or so ago, I post the email (below) regarding the JR-9303 and got almost no response, so I thought that I might try again. Specifically, is there a way to implement reverse differential in landing mode? One of the responses that I did receive, said something to the effect, if you need to turn that much on final and you don't know how to use the rudder, landing may be the least of your problem I really appreciate critical humor and have been known to practice it a bunch myself, but as I said, the plane is a 60 with no flaps, using spoilerons for glide path control, and the v-tail only supports pitch (one servo driving both surfaces). Further, I also mentioned that the pilot is new to gliders, so I would really like to provide him with sufficient control when landing. Thanks! Hi All, Although I'm a very BIG Airtronics Stylus fan, I have also been flying JR since the X-347's debut. Along the way, I purchased the X-388, then a couple of 8103s. I have used my JR radios primarily for handlaunch because they are lighter and have longer run-times than the Stylus for the same sized battery. Consequently, I came up with the modification for the 388/8103 (http://www.silentflyer.org/articles/8103-launch-switch.html) or (http://www.hoopesdesigns.com/) because of their lack of free-form switch assignments as found on the Stylus. The JR radios (10X excluded since I've never bought or owned one) have never measured up to the capabilities of the Stylus or the Vision for multi-servo wings, in my estimation. One of my biggest complaints was that the JR radios lacked the side sliders. Instead, two functions (landing and camber) were placed on the flap stick resulting in potential pilot overload by requiring the correct position of the Butterfly switch for the appropriate flight mode. I have switched from the Stylus with the Advanced Helicopter card to the 8103 for electric helis because I think that the 8103 has superior pitch and throttle curve mixing and its software has a nicer feel than the Stylus. With all of that said, I was anxious to get my hands on a 9303 to see if it really measured up to the Stylus, as some have stated. A local heli pilot, new to gliders, asked me to setup his 60 moldie with his new 9303. I have a mantra that I constantly share with the engineers in my company that if you have to crack the manual to figure out to power-up the product, it is too complicated. I applied the same test to the 9303 and in a couple of minutes, I was boatin' around without too much difficulty. I spent about an hour setting up the plane so that it had speed, cruise, thermal (aka reflex, normal, camber) flight modes and spoilerons for glide path control with elevator compensation. Certainly, not very complicated. I couldn't see an easy way to add reverse differential when the spoilerons were deployed so I uploaded all of the support documents from Horizon's site. Still no solution. Along the way, I read through Joe Wurts' setup recommendations and was surprised to see him suggesting that one cut and swap the leads on the D/R switch to enable it for Launch mode. A short time later, I found Hank Shorz's thoroughly documented modification information, much of which involved a lot of cutting, swapping and soldering. This doesn't scare me, but I was left thinking of the average guy being told to hack up his new $600 radio. Although I spent most of the hour learning and understanding the changes and new additions, this same task would have taken me 10 minutes with the Stylus and I would have had reverse differential on the spoilerons, with no compromises. Why would JR overlook free form switch assignments? The Graupner MX-22 has got them (same radio, different software). Why aren't the mixers symmetrical in function? They never have been on JR, for example Mixer A or #1 is not the same as Mixer C or #3. Further, if a null function were added and allowed to be in the Master selection of the mixer, one could easily support presets in every mixer. For this plane's setup, I used FMOD, but didn't get a clear picture whether this would cause other problems. So what do I think? JR has great quality, nice gimbals, desperately needs free form switch assignments, match the documentation's nomenclature to the radio's nomenclature, convince Airtronics to squeeze their 92185 PCM receiver to the same size as JR's R770...yea like that'll ever happen ;-) , stick with the nice click wheel, and knock the sharp edges off from the software. I didn't get a chance to look at the 9303's heli software and I would have liked to spend more time with the radio than I did. Also, it would be nice to know whether the radio's program memory can be re-flashed through the DSC port or some internal connection for future updating, thus alleviating a potential buyer's concern of being stuck with older or buggy software. Stylus Boy, Tom Hoopes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Tom Hoopes ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [RCSE] 51 MHz base loaded antenna for 9303
On Wed, Mar 23, 2005 at 09:44:43PM -0800, Larry Taylor wrote: | The Small Ant will not radiate off the end. Rubber duckies do. That is what you're talking about, right? | The sailplane after a few flight may have the Ant wire all bunched | up next to the receiver from landing. Really, the antenna should not be allowed to do this. It should be installed better. (But mistakes do happen.) | The longer the TX Antenna the better it is for the sailplane. I think a better maxim is `the stock antenna is usually best' (unless you know what you're doing.) Taking your stock antenna, TX or RX, and replacing it with one that's somewhat longer will probably _reduce_ performance, not improve it. | I have seen many sailplanes that have added on wire to their RX | Antenna just to get better range. This is a `Bad idea', unless you know what you're doing. | (England) but we here (USA)can get so high just a speck in the sky | and still have control of it with our stock radios from the Hobby | Stores. I'm guessing they can speck it out over on the other side of the pond with stock equipment too. The minimum length for a good antenna is 1/4 wavelength, because that's where it becomes resonant. At 72 mHz, this is right at one meter, and you'll find that most antennas, receiver and transmitter, are right about one meter. This is not a coincidence. If your antenna isn't right at 1 meter, either 1) it's close enough to one meter to work well enough, 2) there's a matching network (perhaps the manufacturer had a nice supply of antennas that were slightly off, and so it's cheaper to just add a coil or capacitator and use the off-length antenna), or 3) the receiver is so bad at rejecting interference that they're deliberately reducing the range. *cough*Hitec Feather*cough*. A matching network can make an antenna that's not 1/4 wavelength long resonant, but it's still a compromise, and will reduce range. If the difference between the antenna length and 1/4 wavelength is small, then the range lost is very small. But if your antenna is electrically 1/4 wavelength long, but physically much smaller (like with a rubber ducky, or a reduced size receiver antenna), it will still be resonant, but the range loss is signifigant. But the range will still be much better than if you took the stock antenna and simply cut it to the shorter length (making it non resonant.) It seems that most non-72 mHz equipment (50 mHz, 27 mHz, 35 mHz, etc.) also uses antennas at about one meter. (Probably because these antennas are easy to get, and a 3 meter antenna at 27 mHz would be unwieldy anyways.) This equipment would almost certainly have a matching network, probably a loading coil. In any event, if you make this one meter antenna longer, you'll make it so it's not resonant anymore (not even close) and you'll _reduce_ range. (Now, if you add another 1/4 wavelength, or a multiple of that, you'll probably slightly improve range. But only slightly.) Either way, the range of our equipment seems to be around 1.5 miles -- at least that's what I've heard. I can't see my largest plane at over half a mile well enough to fly it, so there's a lot of room for small compromises or mistakes. But if you get enough of these going at once, it could result in the loss of a plane. | Larry Taylor KF6JBG Personally, I wish we could just get a frequency allocation in the 800 mHz or so range. Then a good antenna could be less than 4 inches long, making much of the need for small antennas moot. (It would also be ideal if the new radio equipment used spread spectrum rather than discrete channels, removing frequency conflicts forever. R/C heaven! But so much for dreaming ...) -- Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED], AD5RH Why don't cannibals eat clowns? They taste funny. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] 51 MHz base loaded antenna for 9303
Great, and accurate post Doug... Quoting Doug McLaren [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, Mar 23, 2005 at 09:44:43PM -0800, Larry Taylor wrote: | The Small Ant will not radiate off the end. Rubber duckies do. That is what you're talking about, right? | The sailplane after a few flight may have the Ant wire all bunched | up next to the receiver from landing. Really, the antenna should not be allowed to do this. It should be installed better. (But mistakes do happen.) | The longer the TX Antenna the better it is for the sailplane. I think a better maxim is `the stock antenna is usually best' (unless you know what you're doing.) Taking your stock antenna, TX or RX, and replacing it with one that's somewhat longer will probably _reduce_ performance, not improve it. | I have seen many sailplanes that have added on wire to their RX | Antenna just to get better range. This is a `Bad idea', unless you know what you're doing. | (England) but we here (USA)can get so high just a speck in the sky | and still have control of it with our stock radios from the Hobby | Stores. I'm guessing they can speck it out over on the other side of the pond with stock equipment too. The minimum length for a good antenna is 1/4 wavelength, because that's where it becomes resonant. At 72 mHz, this is right at one meter, and you'll find that most antennas, receiver and transmitter, are right about one meter. This is not a coincidence. If your antenna isn't right at 1 meter, either 1) it's close enough to one meter to work well enough, 2) there's a matching network (perhaps the manufacturer had a nice supply of antennas that were slightly off, and so it's cheaper to just add a coil or capacitator and use the off-length antenna), or 3) the receiver is so bad at rejecting interference that they're deliberately reducing the range. *cough*Hitec Feather*cough*. A matching network can make an antenna that's not 1/4 wavelength long resonant, but it's still a compromise, and will reduce range. If the difference between the antenna length and 1/4 wavelength is small, then the range lost is very small. But if your antenna is electrically 1/4 wavelength long, but physically much smaller (like with a rubber ducky, or a reduced size receiver antenna), it will still be resonant, but the range loss is signifigant. But the range will still be much better than if you took the stock antenna and simply cut it to the shorter length (making it non resonant.) It seems that most non-72 mHz equipment (50 mHz, 27 mHz, 35 mHz, etc.) also uses antennas at about one meter. (Probably because these antennas are easy to get, and a 3 meter antenna at 27 mHz would be unwieldy anyways.) This equipment would almost certainly have a matching network, probably a loading coil. In any event, if you make this one meter antenna longer, you'll make it so it's not resonant anymore (not even close) and you'll _reduce_ range. (Now, if you add another 1/4 wavelength, or a multiple of that, you'll probably slightly improve range. But only slightly.) Either way, the range of our equipment seems to be around 1.5 miles -- at least that's what I've heard. I can't see my largest plane at over half a mile well enough to fly it, so there's a lot of room for small compromises or mistakes. But if you get enough of these going at once, it could result in the loss of a plane. | Larry Taylor KF6JBG Personally, I wish we could just get a frequency allocation in the 800 mHz or so range. Then a good antenna could be less than 4 inches long, making much of the need for small antennas moot. (It would also be ideal if the new radio equipment used spread spectrum rather than discrete channels, removing frequency conflicts forever. R/C heaven! But so much for dreaming ...) -- Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED], AD5RH Why don't cannibals eat clowns? They taste funny. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format Radius Systems Cogito Ergo Zoom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Programming tricks help
While we are on the subject of programming our radios does anyone have some good presets Aileron and Flaps in all settings for the SA 7037 airfoil? I have a Futaba and it uses % so when ever possible I'd appreciate it to put it in % and inches for throws. Thanks, Don RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Programming tricks help
Sort of along the same topic. Has anyone else just let the plane fly when at a high altitude? I have just put in a few clicks of left or right so the plane will make large circles and let it go. Often it will find a thermal and stay in it better than any of my flying ability. It's interesting to watch, it will test the boundaries of a thermal then get pulled back into it more often than not. - Original Message - From: KC Soar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Randy Bullard' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring@airage.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 9:56 AM Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: Programming tricks help Ah, Yes, I thought that way [mixing with your brain] for a while. But once you start flying at the limit of vision it is very difficult to see if your inputs are anywhere near correct. Set up properly, it is much better to let the radio handle the mixing. It's easy enough to put it on a switch to turn it off when you do not want or need the mixing. Kerry The thermal mode has about 3 degrees of camber, lots of ailrud coupling, a bit of up elevator preset, and about the same differential as the speed mode. Now this is very interesting. Someone with a much lower AMA number than mine used preach to me that real pilots don't us ailrud coupling. They learn how to fly properly with both thumbs. So now I've wasted all those years trying to learning how to fly with both thumbs for nothing? ;-) In reality, I suspect most of the best pilots use a combination of coupling and two thumb flying. Randy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Safety rules - do you have them?
I was part of our club safety commitee once upon a time and took it upon myself to help with the rules. I used to write operating specs as a process engineer and thought that if I could do that a safe flying document would be easy. My first reviewer said I was way too wordy and noone would ever finish reading it. That discouraged me enough to read it a few more times and eventually abandon my new stuff. We went to the old stuff saying range check, check that you have the right program for the model, no low passes over the pits, etc. I have to admit that I am fairly safety conscious, maybe even slightly paranoid about how lax saiplane pilots can be. The fact that we don't have a runway with a fence in front of us seems to encourage stand where you want and go get your plane where ever it lands and don't shout out when landing or launching. I really hate when guys flying the electrics (or the slopers, when we are there) stand up in front of their chair, turn on the prop and throw it without any word, or worse, from just behind your field of vision. It is also hard to establish an area for this or that when your field layout effectively changes with wind direction. We fly on a small field (a West wind makes the grass part of the field too small for a full sized histart) and it is hard to get any real separation of areas. I'm curious as to how you your flying stations work out when the wind is straight alonn thier line. I don't know if having Da Rules will lead to legal problems any more than not having them in place, but I do know that, in general, people will not follow safety procedures with anything if it is too inconvenient. I've seen it in garages, flying fields and a chemical plant. Few people will be safety conscious without having been personally affected by not following them. Smoking is everyday proof that knowing the dangers does not necessarily affect behavior. I think the big thing is enforcement. Maybe your club has the rules better netrenched but i have found that too many people do not want to have the safety hat on for fear of offending someone with their actions. It is hard to be the cop when the other flyers are your friends of many years. Enforcement is probably the real topic here, not what is written on a piece of paper. Who is going to be the guy that says your grounded for a week for violating our Safety Code item 1.3.a? And who is going to pack up and leave for a week if he did? How do you get him to do it if he refuses? This is a little extreme in example, but I think the point is the same whether its a big offense or the same nuisance offense over and over. Tom Koszuta Western New York Sailplane and Electric Flyers Buffalo, NY - Original Message - From: Dave Brombaugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: soaring@airage.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 11:53 AM Subject: RE: [RCSE] Safety rules - do you have them? I was surprised that this didnt start a bigger discussion yesterday. Safety is something that all of us should keep in the forefront of our minds as we go to the field, even though its probably not something we like to discuss. Its similar to getting a will we all know how important it is, but its certainly not a fun/happy topic to discuss. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Anybody know of an electronic version of the Sapphire instructions
I have a kit that was started elswhere and the manual is missing. Tom KoszutaWestern New York Sailplane and Electric FlyersBuffalo, NY
[RCSE] 14MZ and other RX's
FWIW I just bench tested a Berg-5 DSPII RX on channel 46, a Shadow 1 synthesized RX, and a Hitec 555. ALL three worked fine on the bench. Of course they are all ppm RXs and NOT PCM. I have NOT tested these in a plane and I am NOT saying they will work for you. But they did work for me. FWIW the Berg would not work with my 9Z synthesized module. Bill RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] 51 MHz base loaded antenna for 9303
Excellent post! Lots of good information, Doug. Here's a minor nit-pick: (Now, if you add another 1/4 wavelength, or a multiple of that, you'll probably slightly improve range. But only slightly.) I'll bet you were really talking about adding another 1/2 wavelength or multiple of that. Adding another 1/4 wavelength would create a 1/2 wave end-fed antenna, which would have a much higher input impedance. On the other hand, converting a 1/4 wave antenna into a 3/4 wave antenna would make sense. Mike -- Winch Solenoid Safety Buzzer - http://www.vvsss.com/buzzer/ _ \__|__/ (O) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Astro Jeff weight ?
Does any one know the weight of an Astro Jeff ? Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] JR/Hitec servo question
Hi all. Does anyone know if the the JR DS168 and the Hitec 5125 wing servos use the same gear sets? I think so as they appear to be the same servo except for the electronics and the JR 168 gears strip just as easily as the 5125s. Could some one confirm this as I need to replace the gear sets on both of my two week old JR 168s and the 5125 gear sets are available to me right now. Thanks, Walter RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] JR/Hitec servo question
Walter, Do yourself a favor and pull those servos out, chuck them, and put in a set of JR DS-368s. Then go fly worry free and have fun. Otherwise you'll continue to buy gear sets and fix servos. (I tested the robustness of a lot of servos for work.) Norm PBSS -Original Message- From: Marta Zavala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 5:57 PM To: soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] JR/Hitec servo question Hi all. Does anyone know if the the JR DS168 and the Hitec 5125 wing servos use the same gear sets? I think so as they appear to be the same servo except for the electronics and the JR 168 gears strip just as easily as the 5125s. Could some one confirm this as I need to replace the gear sets on both of my two week old JR 168s and the 5125 gear sets are available to me right now. Thanks, Walter RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] 51 MHz base loaded antenna for 9303
Mike reread what bergent wrote. Look at how the test was conducted. His findings are correct in the way it was done. He was doing a signal strength test. What you don't know was how straight or inline the Antenna was to the Receive input of the Analyzer. If he held his radio and pointed his rubber ducky and it flops a little. Yes he will get a whole lot of signal as to pointing a ridged whip at the tester. If he had laid it on a board so that it was straight and the end was pointing directly at the receiver of the tester. Now we would have a good comparison when we talked about RF signal coming off the end of the Antenna. Do you know what 4 to 6 db loss in power is? 3db is half power and another 3db is half again = 1/4 power in reference to a full length Antenna whip. You don't have the range when you coil up an Antenna. That's called loading the Antenna. What was also meant on the Antenna pointing at the receiver. Is that the coil on the end of the rubber ducky in effect is horizontal by a small degree and therefore radiates better than a whip. It is a much better antenna if you-have-to point your antenna at a receiver.Whip Antenna have very little surface on the tip. Also, what they don't talk about is the receive Antenna and how it too is directional. It won't receive worth beans off the end of the wire as the test shows. If you let it dangle out the end, it will receive allot better. Think about launching a Sailplane off a wench and have your TX antenna still collapsed. You can launch just fine, till you do the zommie. If you find out in time and pull out the Antenna you may just save it. I like to have the best performance from my Tx and Rx all the time. Any time you degrade from that setup. You reduce your margin of safety to keep it flying. The worst setup is putting the receiver wire Antenna inside a carbon tube or inside a Fuse covered with Chrome Monocoat. When you shield a Receive Ant in a conductive material, that will reduce the receive signal. If you point a Antenna or reduce its radiated signal by making it smaller, that reduces the receive signal. The best setup is having a receiver Antenna exposed and dangling some. Using a dual conversion receiver. Good batteries at full charge. TX that has the full Ant whip angled up out of the Tx case. Most people like to look straight at their Sailplane while flying. That normally makes the Antenna point at the Sailplane. So if you can angle the Ant up or even down or turn sideways. A little more RF will be going in the direction needed. If you just have to have a smaller Ant. Get one that flops over some. That will give you more signal than a rubber ducky that is stiff and ridged. The more your Sailplane can see of the Tx Ant, the better it likes it. Larry Taylor KF6JBG CD for the Visalia Fall Soaring Festival 2005 Oct 1st 2nd Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: soaring@airage.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 4:54 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] 51 MHz base loaded antenna for 9303 Larry Taylor wrote: The Small Ant will not radiate off the end... Indeed it will. I'm not making this up. Read what Peter Berg, designer of Berg receivers, has to say about the tests he performed: http://www.bergent.net/antenna_field_test.html CONCLUSION: Pointing a whip antenna at the plane is BAD, and pointing a rubber duck antenna at the plane is GOOD. These measurements proved nothing new. We have known for a long time that the antenna patterns are as described... Mike -- Winch Solenoid Safety Buzzer - http://www.vvsss.com/buzzer/ _ \__|__/ (O) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] JR/Hitec servo question
What are you doing to them? I've run them for two years in a Pike Superior with zero failures...JRs on flaps, Hitecs on ailerons. Tom Marta Zavala wrote: Hi all. Does anyone know if the the JR DS168 and the Hitec 5125 wing servos use the same gear sets? I think so as they appear to be the same servo except for the electronics and the JR 168 gears strip just as easily as the 5125s. Could some one confirm this as I need to replace the gear sets on both of my two week old JR 168s and the 5125 gear sets are available to me right now. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: programming tricks
Oleg, For steady state circling, yes Virginia (or South Carolina...) the left thumb has to come into play. As you aptly note, with my setup I have to use additional rudder to override the ailrud mix for a coordinated turn. The reason that I leave the ailrud mix in, is to make the roll input (that is, the right stick movement for those of us that fly mode two) pure. By pure, I mean that when I move the right stick, I get a fairly pure roll output, without any cross-talk from other axes. If I do not have any ailrud coupling, then when I make adjustments with the right stick for bank angle adjustments, I get adverse yaw (the cross-talk from a roll input into a different axis, the yaw axis). With the ailrud coupling, I get a roll response with little adverse yaw. I'm good at holding in the in rudder on a consistent basis for coordinated flight in steady state circling, but not so good in moving the left stick in concert with the right stick for momentary roll corrections. The penalty is that I get to hold in more in rudder during steady state turns. For me, having the ailrud mix active reduces the total pilot workload while thermalling, as I don't have to continually wag the left stick, but just hold an amount of in rudder that is somewhat proportional to the bank angle. My conclusion is that I can live with the penalty so as to get the benefits, that being a lower amount of total stick wiggling. Your optimum may be different than mine... For the purists out there, the rudder input is a function of both bank angle and airspeed, but one wants to be optimized, so one shouldn't be thermalling at excessive speeds where little in rudder is necessary. Joe PS Thanks for those of you that provided the link to my write-up. I did a quick search but could not find it. And yes, I are an engineer... :-) - Original Message - From: Oleg Golovidov [EMAIL PROTECTED] Joe, thanks for sharing your setup tricks. I notice you always use more ail-rud coupling for thermal modes, both TD and HLG. What do you do during circling, when you need to give some opposite aileron to counteract the over-banking tendency? I always disable ail-rud coupling in thermal mode for that specific reason. When circling, I use the left stick to give a little in rudder and, of course, the right stick to give a little out ailerons. If you enable high ratio of ail-rud mix during circling, any outside aileron input will screw up your circle. I use ail-rud coupling in cruise mode, but as soon as I start circling I turn it off. Regards, Oleg. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Anybody know of an electronic version of the Sapphire instructions
Ed, I've just been building from scratch for a bit and I was looking forward to not having to think about what's next while I build. I do have the plans. Lee, I am not quite ready to start the Sapphire, so I'm not in a big hurry yet. I'm going to see if I can buy a copy from the NE Sailplane before we start copying. Thanks for the offer. I'll let you know after I call them tomorrow. Thanks guys. - Original Message - From: ejfranz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Thomas Koszuta [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Anybody know of an electronic version of the Sapphire instructions Hi there, If you have a set of plans, all the info you need should on them. If not, what do you need help with? Ed - Original Message - From: Thomas Koszuta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: efranz41005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Anybody know of an electronic version of the Sapphire instructions I have wood wings in my Sapphire kit. - Original Message - From: efranz41005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Thomas Koszuta [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Anybody know of an electronic version of the Sapphire instructions Hi Tom, What version do you have, the wood wing or the glass wing? Ed Franz --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Thomas Koszuta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a kit that was started elswhere and the manual is missing. Tom Koszuta Western New York Sailplane and Electric Flyers Buffalo, NY RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] 51 MHz base loaded antenna for 9303
Well now, In fiddling with a 72MHz RX in a particular plane (Pike), there were only two solutions that gave an adequate ground range-check: 1. Stock length antenna dangling straight out of the cabin, 90 degrees to the fuse. Quite impractical. Any other solution involving the standard antenna length gave frighteningly short range. 2. Exactly doubling the antenna length, exiting the fuse halfway down the boom, taped to the bottom of the boom all the way back, leaving the excess dangling. Invisible from more than six feet away and glitch-free ranging to vision limits. I had read earlier that as long as one kept the antenna in multiples of its own length, it should work. Tom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excellent post! Lots of good information, Doug. Here's a minor nit-pick: (Now, if you add another 1/4 wavelength, or a multiple of that, you'll probably slightly improve range. But only slightly.) I'll bet you were really talking about adding another 1/2 wavelength or multiple of that. Adding another 1/4 wavelength would create a 1/2 wave end-fed antenna, which would have a much higher input impedance. On the other hand, converting a 1/4 wave antenna into a 3/4 wave antenna would make sense. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] JR/Hitec servo question
Sounds similar to what Im doing with them. JRs on flaps, 5125s ailerons. Using them in a Trinity slope racer as the wing is so thin its hard to fit much else. Landed in nice soft ice plant yesterday, raised flaps on landing but I guess not soon enough, both flaps stripped. I did have a bit of tungsten on board, guess the 168s just dont have the cajones to handle it. Was also flying my Acacia3 at 10lbs, same conditions, never had a problem with servos stripping, ever, as it has 368s in it. Will probably end up using 368s in the Trinity even though they dont quite fit. 168s simply just suck! Walter -Original Message- From: Tom Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Marta Zavala [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com soaring@airage.com Date: Thursday, March 24, 2005 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] JR/Hitec servo question What are you doing to them? I've run them for two years in a Pike Superior with zero failures...JRs on flaps, Hitecs on ailerons. Tom Marta Zavala wrote: Hi all. Does anyone know if the the JR DS168 and the Hitec 5125 wing servos use the same gear sets? I think so as they appear to be the same servo except for the electronics and the JR 168 gears strip just as easily as the 5125s. Could some one confirm this as I need to replace the gear sets on both of my two week old JR 168s and the 5125 gear sets are available to me right now. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] BEC ESC?
Mike hit the nail on the head, BEC Esc's can only handle 3-4 servos... you will need an external BEC if you want to fly with 6 servos. I use the SBEC... On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:59:25 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Howard Mark (Mark Howard?) wrote: Anybody make a BEC ESC suitable for an unlimited size sailplane (speed 600) - 50 amps or so? Needs to run 6 servos. Most ESC's recommend only 2 or 3 sevos. If you don't want to use a separate receiver battery pack then you need either a UBEC: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/ubec.htm or an S-BEC: http://www.firmtronics.com/htm_pages/switch_mode_becs.htm#1 Mike -- Winch Solenoid Safety Buzzer - http://www.vvsss.com/buzzer/ _ \__|__/ (O) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jay Hunter RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Programming tricks help
Joe Wurts wrote: Another item that I do that doesn't seem to be typical, is that I always have my elevator to camber mixing active. It is nice to have more lift capability when I pull some elevator, regardless of which flight mode I'm in. The elevator to camber mix working the full TE is something a lot of folks usually have a problem tuning the travels on. When I set up a model, one of the earliest things I do is make sure I can get the entire TE of the wing moving in unison up at least 5 degrees and down 15 degrees. The 9303 is a little more forgiving in this area because of how it sets launch preset. It only needs to work around the +/- 5 degree area. Some users of the 8103, 3xx, 7xx type radios sometimes find that there is not enough mix from flaps to the ailerons and the ailerons don't move enough to match the flap travel. This is a result of the differences in linkages for moving ailerons vs getting 90 degrees on the flaps. One trick to work around that limit is to increase aileron travel. To avoid the aileron becoming too sensitive, set the dual rates to less than 100 to back down the travel from your stick inputs. Usually you can add 20% to your aileron travel limits and then set the dual rate setting to 80%. Don't be afraid to try the down elevator to reflex side of things. Some airfoils can benefit from a fairly substantial amount of reflex with down elevator. Way more than you would ever imagine. The other mix I often find missing is using the flaps as ailerons. The flaps should be moving with the ailerons at 30-50% of the aileron travel. If you get the ailerons and flaps moving together and put in elevator to camber mixing, you will be amazed at how much nicer your model flies. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Programming tricks help
I hope you guys are not just skim reading this stuff, these guys appear to be in quite a sharing mood in this thread. Good info here. 8-) At 10:06 PM 3/24/2005, Michael Lachowski wrote: Joe Wurts wrote: Another item that I do that doesn't seem to be typical, is that I always have my elevator to camber mixing active. It is nice to have more lift capability when I pull some elevator, regardless of which flight mode I'm in. The elevator to camber mix working the full TE is something a lot of folks usually have a problem tuning the travels on. When I set up a model, one of the earliest things I do is make sure I can get the entire TE of the wing moving in unison up at least 5 degrees and down 15 degrees. The 9303 is a little more forgiving in this area because of how it sets launch preset. It only needs to work around the +/- 5 degree area. Some users of the 8103, 3xx, 7xx type radios sometimes find that there is not enough mix from flaps to the ailerons and the ailerons don't move enough to match the flap travel. This is a result of the differences in linkages for moving ailerons vs getting 90 degrees on the flaps. One trick to work around that limit is to increase aileron travel. To avoid the aileron becoming too sensitive, set the dual rates to less than 100 to back down the travel from your stick inputs. Usually you can add 20% to your aileron travel limits and then set the dual rate setting to 80%. Don't be afraid to try the down elevator to reflex side of things. Some airfoils can benefit from a fairly substantial amount of reflex with down elevator. Way more than you would ever imagine. The other mix I often find missing is using the flaps as ailerons. The flaps should be moving with the ailerons at 30-50% of the aileron travel. If you get the ailerons and flaps moving together and put in elevator to camber mixing, you will be amazed at how much nicer your model flies. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: programming tricks
Being a software type of engineer myself, I always thought of that as overloading my ail/rud mix. 8-) (I do the same thing) At 09:21 PM 3/24/2005, Joe Wurts wrote: As you aptly note, with my setup I have to use additional rudder to override the ailrud mix for a coordinated turn. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Programming tricks help
Joe Wurts wrote: Finally, the launch mode has full span camber, typically about 12 to 15 degrees of camber. The differential is set to between 80 and 90%, with as much ailrud mix as possible. The large differential is because the trailing edge is already set to produce the maximum amount of lift out of the wing. If more downward deflection would produce more lift, then I'd put it in the preset (an oversimplification, but should get the concept across). If you have an 8103 or 7xx or 3xx radio and wish you had another differential setting for launch mode, you can do this with a mixer. Set up a programmable mixer and mix AILE - FPRN. Turn this mixer on with the same switch you use for launch mode. Adjust the mix values to get your differential. Note that the mixer values will be positive in one direction and negative in the other direction. (Or get a 9303 and you have a different differential setting for every flight mode) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] JR/Hitec servo question
OK - that explains it. I would agree that the 168s in a loaded sloper is probably a bit light. TD ships in the 70-80 oz range is a more reasonable application. Putting together a Furio F3B plane with the 168s on ailerons, but for flaps I stuck with the 368s. Tom Marta Zavala wrote: Sounds similar to what Im doing with them. JRs on flaps, 5125s ailerons. Using them in a Trinity slope racer as the wing is so thin its hard to fit much else. Landed in nice soft ice plant yesterday, raised flaps on landing but I guess not soon enough, both flaps stripped. I did have a bit of tungsten on board, guess the 168s just dont have the cajones to handle it. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Programming tricks help
Finally! A really useful thread by real experts. Lets have more of these. Chuck Anderson RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Programming tricks help
Wing Span 115.25 Chord (widest point) 9.5 Horizontal Flying Stab 24 Nose to rudder 55 Thanks in advance -Don --- Subject: RE: [RCSE] Programming tricks help They can't put it in inches, it depends on the span of the aircraft. They use percent so that it can be applicable to all aircraft with that foil. So you may want to send out a follow up post with the span of your aircraft. John --- Subject: RE: [RCSE] Programming tricks help While we are on the subject of programming our radios does anyone have some good presets Aileron and Flaps in all settings for the SA 7037 airfoil? I have a Futaba and it uses % so when ever possible I'd appreciate it to put it in % and inches for throws. Thanks, Don RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: programming tricks
OK, got it, thanks a lot! Do you think this will work in North Carolina also? :-) Joe Wurts wrote: Oleg, For steady state circling, yes Virginia (or South Carolina...) the left thumb has to come into play. As you aptly note, with my setup I have to use additional rudder to override the ailrud mix for a coordinated turn. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] WOW! Only the SHADOW 3 RX...knows, See it at Toledo!
WOW and WOW!!! Just got two of the new Shadow 3, yep that's right 3 not 1, the new7 channel xtal-less, programmable, cascadable,DSP,with triple lost signal'hold' function...receivers! The S3 had significant feature enhancements over the Shadow 1. It is nowa full 7 servo system, versus 6 servo with 7channel flexibility as the S1 was.(7 servo plug-ins, that's enough for the Pike's servos and the Picolario!) (for those of you afraid of the word 'programmable', its all done with the touch of one button!) It now has three programmable 'lost signal hold' options... 1) last good signal 'no movement'---not powered hold, but not glitched by lost signal. 2)Last good signal 'hold position' --servos are actually 'held' by the RX 3) "Programmed Set and Hold" (my term) Move the surfaces to positions where you would like them to go to IF the TX signal is lost or distracted, then use the Shadow's patented One Touch program button to memorize those settings. No crystals needed EVER AGAIN...the Shadow3 allows you to simply dial the frequency to match your TX, any brand TX...use the One Touch Button and the Shadow3 'knows' your TX...not just it's frequency but YOUR TX's 'finger print'! To the point where another TX same freq will not operate the Shadow3. (NO that's not saying you can fly around with two TX's on the same freq!!! That's goofy thinking. The signal is still an FM signal and two at once is still like listening to two women talking at once). Its the DSP function that does that part...and it is extremely agressive about letting good bits only of signal thru to the servos! AND Pin Mapping capabilitywhat's that? It means you can tell the Shadow3 to listen to any channels between 1 and 14! So you can program one to listen to 1 thru 7, and a second (slave) to listen to 8 thru 14 for those big scale ships...Cascadability means you can turn two Shadow3 7 channel RX's into ONE 14 channel...or just use two in one plane, one in the wing to keep wing servo wires short and one in the fuse for the rest of the functions...two tiny7's become one tiny 14... Onany Frequency72mhzOR 75mhz! Yes you can use the same Shadow3 in your plane or in your car/boat applications. Just use the two dial Programmer to set it all up and all with one Touch to lock it each function in...as needed. Once set, it stays. Available from Kennedy Composites first at the TOLEDO Weak Signals RC Show, April 1 weekend. He has a limited number to sell there, so don't miss out! You might even see me there..and yep the Digital Volz Servos on display. Barry Kennedy told me that he will also have AVA's and Graphites there for sale and likely will have a show special on servos and sailplanes..and even on the JR9303 TX's, an excellent match for use with the Shadow3. (specially now that you guys got all those pregramming tips from JW and Mike L! :-) BLASTERS are sold out, but Barry will have a sign up sheet there for those of you who want to first on the waiting list. Gordy Back from Canada, off to Milwaukee
RE: [RCSE] JR/Hitec servo question
I was wondering sort of the same thing about comparing the two servos. But my question is: Why, when I plug in both brands, with no load, do the Hitec servos make this funny sound like distant morse code in a WW2 submarine movie, while the JR's are dead silent? And presuming that there's some current drain involved in making those sounds, why would I want to use Hitec? Newbie to this digital servo stuff, Loren RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] 51 MHz base loaded antenna for 9303
On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 07:41:02PM -0800, Tom Watson wrote: | In fiddling with a 72MHz RX in a particular plane (Pike), there were | only two solutions that gave an adequate ground range-check: A range check where you collapse the TX antenna is hardly a scientific test, but it does catch gross errors (like where you accidently cut the RX antenna wire when you install it!) so it's a good thing. But it should also show just how badly you can hurt your range by simply cutting the antenna. Doing a similar change to your RX antenna length will have a similiar affect on range. | 2. Exactly doubling the antenna length, exiting the fuse halfway down | the boom, taped to the bottom of the boom all the way back, leaving the | excess dangling. Invisible from more than six feet away and glitch-free | ranging to vision limits. Is the fuse made of carbon fiber or covered with something else that conducts? If the antenna is being shielded, then absolutely, anything that gets some of the antenna out of that shielding will improve things, even if it's not quite right. | I had read earlier that as long as one kept the antenna in multiples of | its own length Keeping it a multiple of the antenna length is better than say 1.5 lengths, but as Mike says, it messes up the impedance and will probably reduce range. | it should work. Ultimately, with antennas, just about everything works. It's just that some things work better than others. | [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... | I'll bet you were really talking about adding another 1/2 | wavelength or multiple of that. Adding another 1/4 wavelength would | create a 1/2 wave end-fed antenna, which would have a much higher | input impedance. On the other hand, converting a 1/4 wave antenna | into a 3/4 wave antenna would make sense. Yes you're right. I made a typo. -- Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED] All generalizations are dangerous, even this one. --Alexandre Dumas RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
