Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
Careful with your money John, Woody guys can easily track their scores from the events scorekeeper's posting and keep a separate score sheet for themselves without permission from anyone. The woody guys could score their event only during the first two days. This would give us Sunday to sit back and relax watching JW and Daryl fight it out for top money. So how large could the Woody only pot become and who would hold the pot money for the two days? Think we could trust Gordy? Not trying to be a trouble maker, just trying to have some fun during my turn on the rock. BTW ... to be an "all out competitor in the spirit of competition" does not require a bagged, molded or store bought sailplane. I think most of us already know who the top pilots (most dedicated to winning) are and who the fodder are. Enjoy. Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.com Home of Wood Crafters - Original Message - From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "RCSE" ; "rdwoebke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:53 PM Subject: RE: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio > Ryan, > > I would love to see your Paragon, Allegro Lite and many other wood wing > planes flying at this contest. So much so, that I will match Ray's > sponsorship offer of "$100.00, $75.00 and $50.00 for Cash awards to first > thru third place in a woody class". That will make it real interesting for > the wood wing flyers. If the powers that be will allow it, I think that it > would entice the wood wing flyers out and give then a reason to fly. They > could fly knowing that they are contesting for wood wing prize not just > spending $75 for a few MOM launches. As you know Ryan, I am not a contest > kind of guy and would be more of a hazard than a benefit as a contestant. > Barring any conflicts I will be available for gofer, and worker bee service. > That time of year we may not have the kids to run the carts and help set up > so I can shag help and shag chutes like I did at the Nats (to relieve the > kids for lunch and when it was too hot) and at our local OVSS contest. It's > a great way to watch a contest. > > John > > P.S. Maybe an up of the ante will convince you to "commit the time". > > -Original Message- > From: notify@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > rdwoebke > Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 9:58 PM > To: John > Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR > Radio > > Actually, when Ray posted the suggestion about the woody "class" I > thought that was a pretty good idea. I almost replied saying I was > in, but then I realized that with my family it is very difficult to > commit to a 2 day contest, much less a 3 day one. But they sure are > fun though. > > I think it would be great to see some guys flying woodies in the > mix. I remember 10 years ago when I started contesting that it > seemed every contest I went to (Cincy, Louisville) had at least one > guy flying a sailaire or an Oly. Even back then the guys on top > usualy had composite ships (but sometimes the guys flying the wood > bent wings would take a place). These days it is a lot more rare, at > least outside the club contests. Club contests almost always have a > variety of colorful wooden gliders. > > So John, why don't you come on down from Ft. Wayne and join in the > fun at the Masters? I'd like to join in as well, but don't know that > I'll be able to commit the time away. But, I will be at at least a > few OVSS contests this year with my woody (Allegro Lite or Paragon). > > Ryan > > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] FS: new f3b winchs
There are so many different designs. http://www.fluehs-winden.de/Winden.htm Will it be something like this? http://www.f3x.com/htdocs/accessories/accessories.htm or this: http://www.geocities.com/winchnz/F3B_winch.html One has a smaller more direct motor and the other looks like a geared down large starter. http://www.ml-antriebstechnik.de/index.html Some are really fancy and expensive. Saw several of these at the Nats before. http://web.telia.com/~u59104541/index.html Size and ease of transport will be a major issue. Can you do a simple sketch? This one has a neat box. http://www.gliders.dk/winch%20gjermund.htm The most popular one in Europe is the Hollenbeck. http://rc-sailplane.com/eng/Winch_e.htm They seem to sit up very high off the ground. Tom - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RCSE Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 10:24 PM Subject: [RCSE] FS: new f3b winchs hi, I have a great machinist that will build me as many f3b winchs as I want. This guy is top notch and has done alot of work for me in the past. The cheapest way to do this, is to buy material to do six at a time. We can started on the first six right away, we will be ordering the material on Monday. Anyone one interested ? here's what I can do; *everything is made from aluminum and polished. *5/8'' solid aluminum base plate, with holes drilled under the drum area to lighten. *1 1/2'' solid end support plates. 13'' long x 1.5'' dia. drum, with 2.'' and 2.5'' clam shells that will attach with two screws per half into the 1.5'' drum. *starter motors come from World Wide Co. they are a big company so they will be consistent and easily replaceable if need be. *adjustable stand or frame. *foot pedal & connectors. *solenoid will be bolted to the base plate. *no turn around. *no battery cables. sorry no pics until I build the first six. looks like they'll be around $1000- $1200. hopefully cheaper, but I won't go beyond the $1200. i'll have a solid price and pics after we do these first six. the first six will be cheapest. I'm open to any suggestions. Dave Hauch www.git-r-built.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
Great idea and post Ray! As far as the money, it would be well spent if we can get this rolling and get a good woody representation. Maybe we could lure Bill G. back to Indiana for this. I have a shelf full of stuff to build and now that I'm retired I hope to get at some of them. I'm working on an all wood DLG now and want to get to the old Craft Air Windrifter kit I got at WC last year. I also have a Paragon calling from the shelf. John -Original Message- From: Ray Hayes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 5:51 AM To: John; RCSE; rdwoebke Cc: soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio Careful with your money John, Woody guys can easily track their scores from the events scorekeeper's posting and keep a separate score sheet for themselves without permission from anyone. The woody guys could score their event only during the first two days. This would give us Sunday to sit back and relax watching JW and Daryl fight it out for top money. So how large could the Woody only pot become and who would hold the pot money for the two days? Think we could trust Gordy? Not trying to be a trouble maker, just trying to have some fun during my turn on the rock. BTW ... to be an "all out competitor in the spirit of competition" does not require a bagged, molded or store bought sailplane. I think most of us already know who the top pilots (most dedicated to winning) are and who the fodder are. Enjoy. Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.com Home of Wood Crafters RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
P.S. Gordy would be great if he would agree. Wouldn't it be wonderful if JW would fly a self-built wood wing and take both top prizes? Now that would be a real Soaring Master feat. "Carpe Diem". John Great idea and post Ray! As far as the money, it would be well spent if we can get this rolling and get a good woody representation. Maybe we could lure Bill G. back to Indiana for this. I have a shelf full of stuff to build and now that I'm retired I hope to get at some of them. I'm working on an all wood DLG now and want to get to the old Craft Air Windrifter kit I got at WC last year. I also have a Paragon calling from the shelf. John -Original Message- From: Ray Hayes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 5:51 AM To: John; RCSE; rdwoebke Cc: soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio Careful with your money John, Woody guys can easily track their scores from the events scorekeeper's posting and keep a separate score sheet for themselves without permission from anyone. The woody guys could score their event only during the first two days. This would give us Sunday to sit back and relax watching JW and Daryl fight it out for top money. So how large could the Woody only pot become and who would hold the pot money for the two days? Think we could trust Gordy? Not trying to be a trouble maker, just trying to have some fun during my turn on the rock. BTW ... to be an "all out competitor in the spirit of competition" does not require a bagged, molded or store bought sailplane. I think most of us already know who the top pilots (most dedicated to winning) are and who the fodder are. Enjoy. Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.com Home of Wood Crafters RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
In a message dated 12/31/2005 5:35:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: P.S. Gordy would be great if he would agree. Wouldn't it be wonderful if JWwould fly a self-built wood wing and take both top prizes? Now that would bea real Soaring Master feat."Carpe Diem".John John, If you are going to Dream, Dream BIG !!! Maybe you can get him to Fly Houdini Style Too ! Handcuffed in a Bag!! That outa even the playing field :-) Happy New Years Guys I need to start Building my Woodie Supra Here. LJ
Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
Why stop there? No synthetic glues. Boil down your own animal parts. LOL At 06:11 PM 12/30/2005, Michael Lachowski wrote: I'll be substituting the "Buy" with a "Build" on my entry and I will be flying a molded model. If you carefully look at the top pilots and WC in all areas of modelling, I suspect you will find that many build thier own or are working closely with a mfg to help design and build the models they fly. I think they should outlaw laser cut parts and any other power tools from the woody contests. Nothing more than razor blades and sandpaper are allowed ;-) John wrote: Ray, "no store bought" Are you kidding? That is heresy! It's sad but it looks like (from the lack of anyone responding to your post in the last 24hr) this is going to be the "B&Y" (Big Boy, Big Bucks, Buy & Fly) contest. You have to save your support money for the craftsman/builder events. It looks like no one values, or gives any consideration, to the people that have the skill and determination to build what they fly. Not a big enough market I guess. John -Original Message- From: Ray Hayes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 4:52 PM To: John Diniz; mark browning Cc: soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio John and LSF, You guys should be Knighted. Get it on big time TV and include some aerobatics footage to spark it up. I truly hope this is a winner. I will be delighted to donate a $100.00, $75.00 and $50.00 for Cash awards to first thru third place in a woody class. Like the Southwest Classic does it with 2m, RES and Grey Cup, not separate flight groups, just separate class scoring. Providing the woody qualification rules are: Built up wood flying surfaces, with or without a glass fuse, no restrictions on spar construction, no molded d-tube, no foam, no store bought, AMA unlimited class. Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.com Home of Wood Crafters RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Repair..Dog-eared wingtip...how too?
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005, Todd Larson wrote: > Another bonehead movedropped my golf bag on the lft tip of my Opus >creating a pretty good dog ear. I hate these repairs...especially when I >have a studio abouth the size of an old tool shed :) Hey now, I recently was given a Millenium that had both tips dog eared. I'd never done a moldie before so I was a bit unsure. I ended up running a piece of carbon tube in through the aileron gap out to the tip ans CAed it in place. A little drizzle of CA on the surface cracks followed by some careful sanding and a thin layer of light glass cloth, more sanding, and a drop of paint. Stronger than ever and looks pretty good too. The glass cloth etc is mostly just cosmetic the carbon tube made it flight ready, give it a shot... > anyone in >California up to this type of kob? I can pay or trade a plane or such. I >just want it done straight strong and true. Hope not too much to >askI have had D Hauch, who is AWSOME, do some stuff for me nut the >shipping charges seem to be a bit much and am still paying for, yet >another, foot operation done Oct 25th. I'd offer to do it for you but really I'm just a duffer myself, still if you're really not up for it I could prolly give it a go, but there must be better folk than me. RobII ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Erica Frank & Rob CarterII [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Everybody understands Mickey mouse. Few understand Herman Hesse. Hardly anyone understands Albert Einstein. And nobody understands Emperor Norten" -Malaclypse the younger- RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
- Original Message - From: "Ray Hayes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Woody guys can easily track their scores from the event scorekeeper's posting and keep a separate score sheet for themselves without permission from anyone. I really like this idea. Woody guys and their planes are always welcome at contests. I've certainly never seen any rules at the contests I attend that would prohibit them. I've also never heard any sentiment from the people I fly with that would indicate that they are unwelcome. BTW ... to be an "all out competitor in the spirit of competition" does not require a bagged, molded or store bought sailplane. I think most of us already know who the top pilots (most dedicated to winning) are and who the fodder are. No arguments here either. I wonder if the woody guys know who the top woody pilots are. Assuming they do, why do they still hold woody contests? Probably the same reason that other contests are run. The fodder pilots learn to fly (or to build and fly) better, top dog pilots get old, retire or just have a bad day, you don't have to win first place to have a successful contest, etc. There are lots of reasons to compete even if you don't expect to win. A proposal: Let's all gather up our bagged and molded and store bought airplanes and attend the next woody contest. We can track and post our scores separately without permission.Oh wait a minute, never mind :-) All in good fun. I would personally be happy to see woody airplanes at the soaring masters and thank Ray for his efforts to support those airplanes and flyers. Phil RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] FS: new f3b winchs (pic)
it will be very similar to the Hollenbeck, but will have a end support. http://rc-sailplane.com/winch/hollenbeck/Hollenbec_1.jpg dh The most popular one in Europe is the Hollenbeck. http://rc-sailplane.com/eng/Winch_e.htm They seem to sit up very high off the ground. Tom - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RCSE Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 10:24 PM Subject: [RCSE] FS: new f3b winchs hi, I have a great machinist that will build me as many f3b winchs as I want. This guy is top notch and has done alot of work for me in the past. The cheapest way to do this, is to buy material to do six at a time. We can started on the first six right away, we will be ordering the material on Monday. Anyone one interested ? here's what I can do; *everything is made from aluminum and polished. *5/8'' solid aluminum base plate, with holes drilled under the drum area to lighten. *1 1/2'' solid end support plates. 13'' long x 1.5'' dia. drum, with 2.'' and 2.5'' clam shells that will attach with two screws per half into the 1.5'' drum. *starter motors come from World Wide Co. they are a big company so they will be consistent and easily replaceable if need be. *adjustable stand or frame. *foot pedal & connectors. *solenoid will be bolted to the base plate. *no turn around. *no battery cables. sorry no pics until I build the first six. looks like they'll be around $1000- $1200. hopefully cheaper, but I won't go beyond the $1200. i'll have a solid price and pics after we do these first six. the first six will be cheapest. I'm open to any suggestions. Dave Hauch www.git-r-built.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] FS: new f3b winchs (info)
i had a winch made, it had removable drums that took no tools to remove drums. it worked great, but found out it was to costly to make. to much tooling. so that threw a monkey wrench into the project, i have pics and would of had a solid price. so we simplified going with the clam shells. Dave Hauch www.git-r-built.com - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tom Broeski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "RCSE" Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] FS: new f3b winchs (pic) it will be very similar to the Hollenbeck, but will have a end support. http://rc-sailplane.com/winch/hollenbeck/Hollenbec_1.jpg dh The most popular one in Europe is the Hollenbeck. http://rc-sailplane.com/eng/Winch_e.htm They seem to sit up very high off the ground. Tom - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RCSE Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 10:24 PM Subject: [RCSE] FS: new f3b winchs hi, I have a great machinist that will build me as many f3b winchs as I want. This guy is top notch and has done alot of work for me in the past. The cheapest way to do this, is to buy material to do six at a time. We can started on the first six right away, we will be ordering the material on Monday. Anyone one interested ? here's what I can do; *everything is made from aluminum and polished. *5/8'' solid aluminum base plate, with holes drilled under the drum area to lighten. *1 1/2'' solid end support plates. 13'' long x 1.5'' dia. drum, with 2.'' and 2.5'' clam shells that will attach with two screws per half into the 1.5'' drum. *starter motors come from World Wide Co. they are a big company so they will be consistent and easily replaceable if need be. *adjustable stand or frame. *foot pedal & connectors. *solenoid will be bolted to the base plate. *no turn around. *no battery cables. sorry no pics until I build the first six. looks like they'll be around $1000- $1200. hopefully cheaper, but I won't go beyond the $1200. i'll have a solid price and pics after we do these first six. the first six will be cheapest. I'm open to any suggestions. Dave Hauch www.git-r-built.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
John, Why should the organizers of the event make a special class for Woody Flyers in this event? Woodcrafters limits the numbers of entries in their event and will not allow non-woody flyers a special class. Adding a class even if there are people like Ray willing to put up prize money still adds extra work for the organizers in score keeping, checking the models for compliance to the woody rules and such to pull it off. Not every event is set up to accommodate every flyer. As for your earlier comments about guys that fly composite planes not being scratch builders, I would wager that there are more serious competition pilots that build their own models from scratch than competition woody flyers that scratch build their own planes. Personally I do not count buying a woody kit and building it, as building from scratch, building yes, building from scratch no. Look at the number of people that have built Harley's Genies and many other designs he has given us. Most of the early Genies were built from the ground up. Recently there have been a few guys offering partial kits for these planes. There are several of the top competitors in the DLG arena that scratch build their own designs. I will admit, there has been a major shift away from building even from kits in the last several years but there are still guys out there that do. Just because a guy is flying a nice pretty composite model does not mean it was not built from scratch or that he does not know how to build. I truly respect any and all modelers that design and build there models from scratch whether it be all wood, or all composite. Both methods take tons of craftsmanship to produce a nice end result. Okay, that has been my two cents worth. See Ya, Pat McCleave Wichita, KS Ps, John and Ray, both of your offers are quite generous, but maybe at the wrong event. - Original Message - From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "RCSE" ; "rdwoebke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 10:53 PM Subject: RE: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio Ryan, I would love to see your Paragon, Allegro Lite and many other wood wing planes flying at this contest. So much so, that I will match Ray's sponsorship offer of "$100.00, $75.00 and $50.00 for Cash awards to first thru third place in a woody class". That will make it real interesting for the wood wing flyers. If the powers that be will allow it, I think that it would entice the wood wing flyers out and give then a reason to fly. They could fly knowing that they are contesting for wood wing prize not just spending $75 for a few MOM launches. As you know Ryan, I am not a contest kind of guy and would be more of a hazard than a benefit as a contestant. Barring any conflicts I will be available for gofer, and worker bee service. That time of year we may not have the kids to run the carts and help set up so I can shag help and shag chutes like I did at the Nats (to relieve the kids for lunch and when it was too hot) and at our local OVSS contest. It's a great way to watch a contest. John P.S. Maybe an up of the ante will convince you to "commit the time". -Original Message- From: notify@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of rdwoebke Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 9:58 PM To: John Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio Actually, when Ray posted the suggestion about the woody "class" I thought that was a pretty good idea. I almost replied saying I was in, but then I realized that with my family it is very difficult to commit to a 2 day contest, much less a 3 day one. But they sure are fun though. I think it would be great to see some guys flying woodies in the mix. I remember 10 years ago when I started contesting that it seemed every contest I went to (Cincy, Louisville) had at least one guy flying a sailaire or an Oly. Even back then the guys on top usualy had composite ships (but sometimes the guys flying the wood bent wings would take a place). These days it is a lot more rare, at least outside the club contests. Club contests almost always have a variety of colorful wooden gliders. So John, why don't you come on down from Ft. Wayne and join in the fun at the Masters? I'd like to join in as well, but don't know that I'll be able to commit the time away. But, I will be at at least a few OVSS contests this year with my woody (Allegro Lite or Paragon). Ryan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and u
Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
In a message dated 12/31/2005 1:03:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why should the organizers of the event make a special class for Woody Flyers in this event? Woodcrafters limits the numbers of entries in their event and will not allow non-woody flyers a special class. Bill GrenobleLSF 7558 IVHawksnest SoaringShermans Dale, PA
Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
In a message dated 12/31/2005 1:03:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why should the organizers of the event make a special class for Woody Flyers in this event? Woodcrafters limits the numbers of entries in their event and will not allow non-woody flyers a special class. snip-snip Ps, John and Ray, both of your offers are quite generous, but maybe at the wrong event. I think you are right Pat, I don't think the JR organizers meant to invite all flyers or all kinds of sailplanes, so I think we should stay away as you say. No problem, Bill G. Bill GrenobleLSF 7558 IVHawksnest SoaringShermans Dale, PA
RE: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
“Frankly I think that all contests should fly with a composite class and an all-wood class just to help the sport draw out new people and make it fun for everyone.” Bill, I don’t think that is right either. As I said earlier I think all contest should have a wood and non-wood class. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 1:25 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio In a message dated 12/31/2005 1:03:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why should the organizers of the event make a special class for Woody Flyers in this event? Woodcrafters limits the numbers of entries in their event and will not allow non-woody flyers a special class. Bill Grenoble LSF 7558 IV Hawksnest Soaring Shermans Dale, PA
[RCSE] For Sale Micropro 8000
I have had this sitting unused in my shop now since late 97. I am putting it up for sale to the highest reasonable bidder + shipping. Email me offline. I don't remember how to see the firmware version, but I remember it is 3.53 I have cable for RS232 I don't have the last software for it. I had ACE fix many bugs but lost it when my computer crashed. I will send what I have. Thanks. Channel 32 it has the switch for the alternate channel but I never installed another deck. The battery will need to be replaced but I will ship a one with it. I have the standard and rubber ducky antennas. It is in good condition. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Judy Slates
I am sadden to hear of Judy's death. While I never met her, I had talked with her on numerous occasions. While Jerry was at the contest, Judy kept things going at home. This couple did a great service to the soaring community when they took over RCSD from Jim Gray. They will be missed. Tom Ernst RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Builders vs. non-Builders
I think it's amusing some times that long time pilots that now fly the latest and greatest get classed as non-builders. I would bet some of these guys have built more wood models over their many years of flying than some might imagine. Mainly because that's what we had to do to fly back then. BTW, I have flown a built up balsa woody that I built in every Nats that I have attended in the Nostalgia class. I have built many balsa wood models over the years, but none lately. I still enjoy flying and seeing all the woodys once in awhile. And I know that I am not alone in this. But I prefer to progress with the times and fly the latest and greatest. So I have learned how to assemble, setup and contest ready open class sailplanes in a very consistent fashion. It's all good to me. But we are all going to have our preferences. At 12:03 PM 12/31/2005, Pat McCleave wrote: Just because a guy is flying a nice pretty composite model does not mean it was not built from scratch or that he does not know how to build. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: LSF - Woodies/Moldies
A couple of comments on the woodie/moldie thread: 1) Thanks to the organizers for proposing this event. It should be great no matter what aircraft are flown. Really looking forward to this one. 2) I think when we talk about woodies or moldies we're may also be differentiating by performance types and not exclusively by material types. Differentiating by materials is an obvious way to do it at the sign-in desk. But in the air, what's really the difference? Woodies tend to be lower wing loading, minimum sink floaters while moldies tend to higher loadings with camber changing ability to hunt and then core well. Neither is 'better' in an absolute sense. They both reflect a flying style preference and that's great. I'm also reminded that Muncie can have days of very spotty light lift. And I'm painfully reminded (frequently) that on those kind of days, planes like AVAs and Bubble Dancers leave a lot of us moldie guys in the dust. Go for it, woodies. Nothing in the rules says they're not capable of beating anyone if the conditions are right. - Dave R "Flying something is a lot better than flying nothing" RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
Bill, I do not believe anywhere in my message did I say woody planes should stay away, just that the organizers should not have to make a separate class for them. I actually kind of liked Ray's idea of the woody flyers keeping track of their own scores and having a contest within the contest. People do that all the time with "landing for dollars". I also do not believe the rules said anything about not allowing woody planes to fly, so bring them on. See Ya, Pat - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio In a message dated 12/31/2005 1:03:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why should the organizers of the event make a special class for Woody Flyers in this event? Woodcrafters limits the numbers of entries in their event and will not allow non-woody flyers a special class. snip-snip Ps, John and Ray, both of your offers are quite generous, but maybe at the wrong event. I think you are right Pat, I don't think the JR organizers meant to invite all flyers or all kinds of sailplanes, so I think we should stay away as you say. No problem, Bill G. Bill GrenobleLSF 7558 IVHawksnest SoaringShermans Dale, PA
Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
Correct. It happens all the time. I think DP was telling me at this one it was going to be "Landing for Lincolns"... that's $5 a shot. ;-) At 01:40 PM 12/31/2005, Pat McCleave wrote: People do that all the time with "landing for dollars". Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Happy New Years from the Darkside
Before the obligatory celebrating, got a chance to fly the local dam in a 15-20mph wind. Thanks to the Cinci group, I even was able to take some runs at the backside. Thanks Paul for showing me the way! Open invitation to meet any local fliers at CJ Brown on any day there is a 15+mph wind from the West, maybe I can pass some of this on. Hope you all have a great new year, lift (and speed, now) - Brent RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: LSF - Woodies/Moldies
Good point Dave, Hey guys remember, It's just a damm TD contest that gets won on landing! Dan Fink - Original Message - From: "David Register" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 11:11 AM Subject: [RCSE] Re: LSF - Woodies/Moldies > A couple of comments on the woodie/moldie thread: > > 1) Thanks to the organizers for proposing this event. It should be great > no matter what aircraft are flown. Really looking forward to this one. > > 2) I think when we talk about woodies or moldies we're may also be > differentiating by performance types and not exclusively by material > types. Differentiating by materials is an obvious way to do it at the > sign-in desk. But in the air, what's really the difference? Woodies tend > to be lower wing loading, minimum sink floaters while moldies tend to > higher loadings with camber changing ability to hunt and then core well. > Neither is 'better' in an absolute sense. They both reflect a flying > style preference and that's great. > > I'm also reminded that Muncie can have days of very spotty light lift. > And I'm painfully reminded (frequently) that on those kind of days, > planes like AVAs and Bubble Dancers leave a lot of us moldie guys in the > dust. > > Go for it, woodies. Nothing in the rules says they're not capable of > beating anyone if the conditions are right. > > - Dave R > > "Flying something is a lot better than flying nothing" > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Soaring Masters and Woodies
First, kudos to JR and the LSF for getting an idea rolling whose time has definitely come. The rules look like a true soaring contest and conditions at Muncie will keep it from being a landing contest. A combination of the group that puts on the NATS and the group that puts on a really classy aerotow event should result in a winner. A premier event at a premier site, when Indiana weather is at its best - who could ask for anything more? Now, about the mild hue & cry regarding "woodies" at this competition. As primarily a woody flier myself, my first thought was that I'd volunteer to help and not take a spot from a more qualified or deserving pilot. Then the discussion ensued here on RCSE and I started thinking. As I understand it, the objective of this event is to promote and display R/C soaring with a premier competition. OK, so does "premier competition" mean the "best" flyers competing with the most competitive sailplanes available to them? If so, then why not pare down the number of entries to a smaller number and fly more rounds? But, if the "promote and display" part of the objective is taken seriously, then a large variety of sailplanes should indeed be a part. Right now there are a variety of somewhat prestigious events in the other venues of model aviation that do indeed draw a lot of spectators. I'm not sure that a large number of spectators always assures a large number of newcomers drawn to the hobby. Do a significant number of NASCAR fans become race drivers? Only in their dreams or video games. So, my thought is that the nature of the event is definitely in the hands of the organizers. I'm sure that they monitor and thoughtfully consider thoughtful comments made in this forum. Therefore let us continue to reason together without rancor or sarcasm and not let this discussion run down ratholes like builders vs. non-builders, floaters vs. lawn darts, and lengthy diatribes about whether or not the highest placing "woody" should qualify as an LSF win. Looking forward to a great 2006 flying season and a new "primo" event, Jim Deck RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
Has anybody considered the scores in this event being part of the OVSS series? The venue and the format seem to be consistent with the other contests in the series...Just wondering because it seems a perfect way to post another score in the series. Bill Wingstedt
Re: [RCSE] Soaring Masters and Woodies
In a message dated 12/31/2005 3:31:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Therefore let us continueto reason together without rancor or sarcasm and not let this discussion rundown ratholes like builders vs. non-builders, floaters vs. lawn darts, andlengthy diatribes about whether or not the highest placing "woody" shouldqualify as an LSF win. Amen Jim ! BG Bill GrenobleLSF 7558 IVHawksnest SoaringShermans Dale, PA
Re: [RCSE] Soaring Masters and Woodies
OK Jim from Valpo.. A couple of things: Your only wrong in one of your statements... "do NASCAR fans become race drivers... and you said NO", Big Time Wrong Gong on that one...they become race car drivers on the city streets. Especially the young ones on the cell phone putting her make up on in the review mirror during 8:56 am drive time. The other thing... the rules of this event are: LSF Aspirants are eligible. In my opinion that leads to a reason for a woody class, where as in the previous years Masters, I believe only Level 3 or 4 qualified. My big hope here is some new, strong scratch woody designs show up that have legs and can launch hard. But that challenge has always been available at the NATS, so I'm not holding my breath for too many of them to show up, maybe one or two or three that I know of. Without a woody class and without NOS at AMA NATS. do you know where the most woody fun will be in 2006 ? Stay cool... Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.com Home of Wood Crafters - Original Message - From: "Jim Deck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "RCSE" Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:30 PM Subject: [RCSE] Soaring Masters and Woodies > First, kudos to JR and the LSF for getting an idea rolling whose time > has definitely come. The rules look like a true soaring contest and > conditions at Muncie will keep it from being a landing contest. A > combination of the group that puts on the NATS and the group that puts on a > really classy aerotow event should result in a winner. A premier event at a > premier site, when Indiana weather is at its best - who could ask for > anything more? Now, about the mild hue & cry regarding "woodies" at this > competition. As primarily a woody flier myself, my first thought was that > I'd volunteer to help and not take a spot from a more qualified or deserving > pilot. Then the discussion ensued here on RCSE and I started thinking. > As I understand it, the objective of this event is to promote and > display R/C soaring with a premier competition. OK, so does "premier > competition" mean the "best" flyers competing with the most competitive > sailplanes available to them? If so, then why not pare down the number of > entries to a smaller number and fly more rounds? But, if the "promote and > display" part of the objective is taken seriously, then a large variety of > sailplanes should indeed be a part. Right now there are a variety of > somewhat prestigious events in the other venues of model aviation that do > indeed draw a lot of spectators. I'm not sure that a large number of > spectators always assures a large number of newcomers drawn to the hobby. > Do a significant number of NASCAR fans become race drivers? Only in their > dreams or video games. > So, my thought is that the nature of the event is definitely in the > hands of the organizers. I'm sure that they monitor and thoughtfully > consider thoughtful comments made in this forum. Therefore let us continue > to reason together without rancor or sarcasm and not let this discussion run > down ratholes like builders vs. non-builders, floaters vs. lawn darts, and > lengthy diatribes about whether or not the highest placing "woody" should > qualify as an LSF win. > Looking forward to a great 2006 flying season and a new "primo" event, > Jim Deck > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Nero Flying while the Plains Burn?
Well, it was windy in Dallas again today, but the temperature hit the mid 70's. Don't call us Neros, but Arnold, Pancho and myself went out threw some lead in the sleds and had some great thermal flights to end the year. Came down when we wanted and hit RAM recorded altitudes above 1K AGL. Cool (HOT?) for the last day of the year! Dry and warm means good lift down here in Texas during the winter months. Wished y'all, did I say that, could have been here! Happy New Year and may you always find lift, except when you're competing against me. ;^) Mark W. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Soaring Masters and Woodies
I think that is the right attitude. I've had Ray beat me in MoM rounds with a woody against my ICON before. And he will certainly let you know it too, and hey, that's cool. ;-) And guys that want to fly their 2m's and RES models feel free to do so, there is no restrictions on that as well. I remember a certain OVSS contest in 2005 where Flyin' Brian won a contest with an Ava RES model. Not just by a little, but by a butt spankin' bunch of points. This is a fly what you bring contest, and you can use a couple of models. It really should be a blast! At 03:49 PM 12/31/2005, Ray Hayes wrote: My big hope here is some new, strong scratch woody designs show up that have legs and can launch hard. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Soaring Masters and Woodies
OK...ok...I think I've got it. Mr. Diniz, are you taking notes??? I would like to propose for the Horizon/ JR Unlimited Masters of Soaring contest... so as to NOT exclude anybody... we fly the following classes: Unlimited RES RES and Flaps RE and Flaps 2M 2M RES 2M RES and Flaps 2M RE and Flaps Woody Built up full house Woody RES Woody RES and Flaps Woody RE and Flaps Composite Built up full house Composite built up RES Composite built up RES and Flaps Composite built up RE and Flaps 2M Woody RES 2M Woody RES and Flaps 2M Woody RE and Flaps Oh and foam of all the above... We should also fly in each age group... I'm pretty sure I could take the "born between May 20 and May 22, 1961 class" (when did I get so freaking old???) But the class we're all really hoping for in creating all these classes is the... drum roll please "There's no way I can beat Joe Wurts so what the heck is he NOT going to fly Class" Oh, and John, can you make sure there is at least 5K per class in this for 1st place, so we can all afford to go??? If we have enough classes, I think we can all get wood... Sorry guys... this is killing me... Happy New Year to all! And I remember a time when we all came to a contest and flew whatever we wanted cuz it was fun... Had my ass handed to me plenty of times by built up POS's. Tongue in Cheek - have fun guys, D __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Soaring Masters and Woodies
Damn Daryl, are you that bored on New Years Eve that you had time to write this all down? I do not feel that bad, at least I was somewhere warm for the week. Happy new Years to all, '06 is looking really good! Marc RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
I'm in mark. I don't make offers that I will not back up. Send you money to Gordy . John -Original Message- From: Marc Gellart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 11:28 PM To: Ray Hayes; John Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio Boys, I will make a proposition with you boys, Ray, Horizon is looking for sponsors, I will throw in $100 if you and John will antee up and Skybench is a sponsor, (much like Scale Top Gun where manufacturers support a category) and I will fly wood to boot, the Grand and the new Oly III. Hey, as you said Ray, I know exactly what I am in the pecking order, so I might as well have fun as the fodder I am but atleast make wood look good. Marc RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Soaring Masters and Woodies
IT MUST BE WINTER RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
FW: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
-Original Message- From: John [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 12:15 AM To: Marc Gellart Cc: RCSE Subject: RE: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio I'm in mark. I don't make offers that I will not back up. Send you money to Gordy . John -Original Message- From: Marc Gellart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 11:28 PM To: Ray Hayes; John Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio Boys, I will make a proposition with you boys, Ray, Horizon is looking for sponsors, I will throw in $100 if you and John will antee up and Skybench is a sponsor, (much like Scale Top Gun where manufacturers support a category) and I will fly wood to boot, the Grand and the new Oly III. Hey, as you said Ray, I know exactly what I am in the pecking order, so I might as well have fun as the fodder I am but atleast make wood look good. Marc RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
FW: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
Thank you for your support! John -Original Message- From: John [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 12:15 AM To: Marc Gellart Cc: RCSE Subject: RE: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio I'm in Mark. I don't make offers that I will not back up. Send you money to Gordy . John -Original Message- From: Marc Gellart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 11:28 PM To: Ray Hayes; John Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio Boys, I will make a proposition with you boys, Ray, Horizon is looking for sponsors, I will throw in $100 if you and John will antee up and Skybench is a sponsor, (much like Scale Top Gun where manufacturers support a category) and I will fly wood to boot, the Grand and the new Oly III. Hey, as you said Ray, I know exactly what I am in the pecking order, so I might as well have fun as the fodder I am but atleast make wood look good. Marc RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
