Re: Sight glass Materal
Hi Paul, Not familiar with the Roundhuse sightglass fittings, but Aster's glass tube is located in a silicon ring at each end. Which in turn sits inside the brass locking nut located at each end. Therefore the silicon ring takes up any slight variance in diameter of glass, heat expansion etc. and makes the seal. There is no hard clamping to the glass, unless nut is overtightened and sealing ring is crushed. Flashing the ends of a cut tube with a flame is recommended as it fuses/seals any slight chips/cracks after cutting/grinding etc. Polishing the ends of the glass with wet and dry 400 grit paper is also an alternative method, but flaming is better. Regards, Tony D. At 06:14 PM 6/1/04 -0700, paul gamlin wrote: Hi All I have two questions Does sight glass material vary in in diameter ? The one that broke on removal from My Roundhouse Engine measured in at 4.94 MM and the one that was sent to replace it was 5.09 MM just large enough to break when I but it in the bracket . Second Is there any place in the SF bay area that sells glass tubing ? Paul Gamlin
Heads up-Workparty Trackwork Phase 3
Gentlemen, Heads Up Work Party assistance required. Phase 3 for reworking the Paso Robles Track to running condition is lifting, adjusting and aligning all the section track ends, replacing some kinked rails, fitting rail joiners, replacing end section ties etc. This is not a job which can wait till Wednesday at McClennan. Talking to Tom King this pm, we agreed to schedule this for next Saturday June 12th. Subject to Gary receiving the balance of rail joiners early next week.(Monday). We also need to check the balance of the loaded trailer and may need to re-arrange some of the load layout. Please advise availability and intentions to assist. Thank You, Regards, Tony D.
Re: (Now annealing tempering) side rod patina
Hi Keith, Reference car knockers. Commonly known in the old country railway terminology as belonging to the The Wheel Tappers and Shunters Club. Both as their union group title and name of some pubs/clubs located near railway yards. Regards, Tony D. At 04:45 PM 5/25/04 -0400, Keith Taylor wrote: - Original Message - From: Landon Solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Would this work for making side-rods with that loverly patina seen on the full size beasts? Somehow I don't think this is what you want, as it gives a blue color, not the aged brown you see on the picture at the URL you gave. I do think, however, that some Birchwood Casey Browning solution as used by black power rifle builders use on Pennsylvania Longrifle barrels would work. Or using the directions given in old gunsmithing texts for a slow rust browning would do the same thing. Mostly, just age will give you that look, as what you see is NOT from yearly annealing. (which I've never heard of anyway, but won't say didn't happen!) but from being out in the weather with only minimal wiping from time to time! After a locomotive went through the shops (at least on the Lehigh Valley RR, which is the RR I worked for) the rods came out polished like a mirror! Not for the appearence sake, but to remove any oxides that might be hiding a crack. This is the same reason you never see a painted knuckle coupler, wheel or axle on Main Line railroad equipment, the ICC and now FRA forbid painting these parts, so as to not obscure any possible defects. The old time car knockers job was to give the wheels a really hard whack with a hammer during ispections! (hence the name) they would then listen to the resultant ring of the wheel. A dull clunk was the sign of a cracked wheel! Thse could cause big troubles, if they let go out on the road while the train was haulin the mail! Keith
Re: Very Sad News
Agree. I personally only met Art twice. Very sociable to all, great to talk too, even as strangers and common interests, we immediately received an open invitation to visit with him when in UK. Enjoyed reading his regular emails, input and thoughts. A true world wide ambassador for the small scale live steaming groups, he will be greatly missed, and never forgotten. Deepest sympathies to his wife and family. Tony D. At 10:36 AM 5/25/04 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote: It is indeed sad news, Sir Art was a great friend and a wonderful member of our fraternity, I find it dificult to come to the realization that he has left us. His Lordship steam apron, a gift from him, will be more treasured than ever I'm a sentimental old fellow and Arthur helped keep me young! Geoff You all will hear soon enough I think but sadly Arthur Walker passed away yesterday. Regards, Harry
Re: Dear Tony
Hi Geoff, OK. Your on. Anything can be arranged with the help of a Tanqueray. See you at the steamup-up. FYI, We now have another track, larger and in addition to than last years main line track. Minimum speed limit on new track is scale 70 mph!. Just right for the Pacifics and Daylights with rakes of 10 or more. Tony D. At 05:20 PM 5/22/04 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote: My Dear Tony, I failed to send this!!--so here it is Don't get too excited about the pint--the Duchess delivery is about a year away!!! But you can buy me a pint if I oo and Ah about your coaches. Anyway, I have some of Mr Leech's LMS fine coaches (1/32) on order. If I can't afford the the Duchess (most likely) I'll borrow yours!! Or I can run the coaches with the leaks--I mean teaks! Or I can rent out the teaks-if you procure a Flying Scotsman. I am full of suggestions and open to anything. You also wrote Words of great wisdom and warning from a true sage. Time sharing runs may not be so far off!. I am patiently waiting to run your big Britannia. Even supply my own coal, water and clean the flues afterwards. Regards, Tony D. Now cleaning the flues is a great offer, No coal or water needed but the necessity of lubricant is--Tanqueray works very well. Geoff Hi Jim, No shortage of LMS coaches. Already have rake of 10. Courtesy of a time share with Mr. McDavid via David Leech!. They look great behind my Duchess. For the price of a pint, I think we can come too an arrangement with Geoff at Sacremento. Tony D. At 05:15 PM 5/18/04 +0800, Alison and Jim Gregg. wrote: Re Duchess - I think he will also need a full set of maroon LMS coaches to go with it. Mallards - (aka Ducks Rapidly) Jim Gregg. At 09:23 PM 5/17/04 -0700, you wrote: Hi Geoff, Just re-read your reply. I thought you said the A3 had a full set of 11 leaks, but then saw the T. Could not see you running anything with leaks. All you need now is an Aster Duchess. You placed your order yet?. Drooling from a distance, Tony D.
Re:
Words of great wisdom and warning from a true sage. Time sharing runs may not be so far off!. I am patiently waiting to run your big Britannia. Even supply my own coal, water and clean the flues afterwards. Regards, Tony D. At 09:51 AM 5/18/04 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Hey Tony and Jim, leave me alone--leak is on me mind!--the leaks are coming from my wallet--and my wife keeps reminding me: Are you runnin' them thar leaks again!! No Duchess ordered yet--that would be a big time leak!! But give me time--I can always borrow yours Tony, and sniff the coal!! Geoff Re Duchess - I think he will also need a full set of maroon LMS coaches to go with it. Mallards - (aka Ducks Rapidly) Jim Gregg. At 09:23 PM 5/17/04 -0700, you wrote: Hi Geoff, Just re-read your reply. I thought you said the A3 had a full set of 11 leaks, but then saw the T. Could not see you running anything with leaks. All you need now is an Aster Duchess. You placed your order yet?. Drooling from a distance, Tony D.
Re: Re:
Hi Geoff, FYI, there are three of us in the Bay Area receiving monthly kit packages from John Barrett for building the coal fired GNR 4-4-2 Atlantic. (per your Maisie). So she may have cubs for company soon!. I have a spare leak. Oops! kit. Tony D. To date At 10:35 AM 5/19/04 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Hi Keith, Yes, The delightful GNR Atlantic Maisie which sits in my hobby/Emmie (our cat) room, reminds me all the time. In fact I am continuingly vacuuming it as it is growing cat hair. It is not forgotten, I'm getting itchy and it will be on the rails in a week or so (if it aint completely frozen up!) I will report. The GNR 1/32 Stirling needs a turn of the wheels too! How's the 2-1/2 B/L project going? Geoff Hi Geoff! I hope you don't forget poor Maisie! If you don't run steam locomotives regularly, they forget you love them! (and then they punish you!) Keith Taylor
Re:
Hi Geoff, But soot and ashpan cleaning are all the fun of a real steam engine. Butane's only good for camp fire lamps and alcohol for drinking after a good day coal firing!. Even Cinderella got to go to the ball and see the Duchess after cleaning the ashpans. So there is hope .. Now where did I put that flue brush and vacuum cleaner Tony D. At 09:07 PM 5/16/04 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Yes Jim, You took the bait--lovely! Sooting up the boiler--tell me --I ran the 3/4 Britannia today and now have to clean all the tubes--and smoke box, and the ash pan UGH!! Thanks for your advice anyway--it was good! You are always very helpful on this sslivesteam club. Geoff. Geoff, At risk of taking an offered bait I would not really advise ANY of your suggested firing modifications The resultant sooting up of the boiler innards, you don't want to know about! Jim Gregg. At 01:36 PM 5/15/04 -0700, you wrote: Thanks Tony, Yep, as I said it's complicated and you have made it worse, however youi rescued yourself by the statement So suggest you build em as you like em and enjoy. BTW, I am not THAT old Walt, even if our lathes were powered by belts and donkeys. I am going to mix some coal dust in the alky wicks of another steamer's loco and see if they get some nice smoke while I observe from a distance. Or I may mix some oil with the alcohol--or try kerosone (paraffin) instead of alcohol, or just say to hell with it. How can I drink it that way?? Geoff Subject: Re: Head lights on British engines Hi Geoff, Paul, Additional complications to the lamp arrangements are that the Southern Railway,s engines ran a different lamp position coding system than the other regions, particularly on the suburban lines. Lamp arrangements were not standardised until the LMS, LNER, GWR and SR were nationalised under BR (British Railways) in the 50s. Reference Ian Allen British Railway Locomotives Locospotters yearbooks. No matter, all the lamps were primarily dim manually lit oil lamps and not the searchlights of the USA, South African or Indian railways etc. Incidentally, I have a photograph of a British built American design Mikado sitting in Nottingham Victoria station complete with the USA type centrally mounted headlamp, taken while it was on its way to the London Docks for export to the US. Fortuneately small scale live steamers still have some poetic licence left to suit the individual, and as yet do not have to be politically correct. So suggest you build em as you like em and enjoy. Regards, Tony D. At 01:55 PM 5/14/04 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Paul, Ref Signal lamps on Brit locos. Depends what the loco is doing: There are many variations of headlamp codes, It's complicated. I have a list I can snail mail it to you or try and scan it. Or, if you tell me what duties the tank is going to perform I can probably pick out the closest lamp arrangement for you. For example a Freight , mineral or ballast train stopping at intermediate stations has one lamp above the right buffer (looking from the cab). That might suit you--only one lamp to lose too! Personally, I identify all my locos as express passenger, no matter what they do, that way I don't get anymore befuddled than I already am and these colonists don't know a lamp from a buffer anyway--except Keith Taylor and Harry Wade--and Walt Gray!!
Re:
Hi Geoff, Just re-read your reply. I thought you said the A3 had a full set of 11 leaks, but then saw the T. Could not see you running anything with leaks. All you need now is an Aster Duchess. You placed your order yet?. Drooling from a distance, Tony D. At 09:28 PM 5/17/04 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Hey Tony, I have no argument--except on the alky bit. Butane is good for fire balls too. But remember, to each his own. The 3/4 scale Britannia hauled me and dozens of passengers around the house yesterday and now I am wire brushing the tubes, vacuuming up the ashes from the ashpans. cleaning the smokebox, draining the boiler and cleaning. Luverly! Oh yes, The ALCOHOL fired LNER A3 Flying Scotsman also entertained the visitors, with a full set of 11 teaks! Our own Larry Buerer was there so beware of his submissions!! Cinderella--my favourite pantomine! Steam on! Geoff Hi Geoff, But soot and ashpan cleaning are all the fun of a real steam engine. Butane's only good for camp fire lamps and alcohol for drinking after a good day coal firing!. Even Cinderella got to go to the ball and see the Duchess after cleaning the ashpans. So there is hope .. Now where did I put that flue brush and vacuum cleaner Tony D. At 09:07 PM 5/16/04 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Yes Jim, You took the bait--lovely! Sooting up the boiler--tell me --I ran the 3/4 Britannia today and now have to clean all the tubes--and smoke box, and the ash pan UGH!! Thanks for your advice anyway--it was good! You are always very helpful on this sslivesteam club. Geoff. Geoff, At risk of taking an offered bait I would not really advise ANY of your suggested firing modifications The resultant sooting up of the boiler innards, you don't want to know about! Jim Gregg. At 01:36 PM 5/15/04 -0700, you wrote: Thanks Tony, Yep, as I said it's complicated and you have made it worse, however youi rescued yourself by the statement So suggest you build em as you like em and enjoy. BTW, I am not THAT old Walt, even if our lathes were powered by belts and donkeys. I am going to mix some coal dust in the alky wicks of another steamer's loco and see if they get some nice smoke while I observe from a distance. Or I may mix some oil with the alcohol--or try kerosone (paraffin) instead of alcohol, or just say to hell with it. How can I drink it that way?? Geoff
Re: wicks
Hi Geoff, To clarify. as I recall, three half crowns = 7/6d. Must have been the cost of living down south. I only received a tanner, sometimes two bob. Now you will really confuse the colonials!. You wicked man. Regards, Tony D. At 10:20 PM 4/18/04 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Thanks Stacey, Your suggestion is accepted with enthusiasm--now, if only you had told me how to do this when I was a boy scraping it off the London streets to sell to the folks for their gardens, heck, how do you suppose I bought my first clockwork Hornby for three half crowns? Geoff. Geoff, Yup, collect the stuff by just fixing the shovel to the front of your steam cart in place of the pilot/footboards/whatever. Put your collection box just behind the shovel blade and the stuff will fill the box automatically as you drive into the pile, no stooping involved. If you get stuff thats been sun baked for a day or two you can even use some in the firebox in place of expensive meths or butane. Casey, who slings it all the time. From: Geoff Spenceley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: wicks Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:38:38 -0700 Casey, Will do! I love to hear from men of experience and I never had such a brilliant idea. I will be out in the streets tomorrow with a cart and shovel. Steam driven cart of course. Is that how you collect it. Geoff. Try a refrectory coating of horse maneuvers. It works wonders. Casey _ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-uspage=hotmail/es2ST=1/go/onm00200362a ve/dir ect/01/
Re: Steamup Saturday
At 05:53 PM 3/8/04 -0500, you wrote: Hi Dan, Apologies, we already have a long term non-steaming arrangement for this coming Saturday, so cannot attend. Please keep my hat till a later date. I copied your message to David Cole for passing your invite along to rest of the group, and Bay Area regulars. I am sure there are many who would like to take up your offer to have a steamup this coming Saturday. Again Sincere apologies, Thanks for the thought, Tony D. Look forward to seeing you and returning your hat. Can you bring that great chili even though it's warm out side! Dan P.S. Please pass along the invite
Re: Fire Bricks
Hi Steve, I have to ask the obvious. What size boiler are you intending to hook up to your 24 brick firegrate!. Must be heck of a project 1 loco. Have you give up on the meths?. It is a little late for a scary halloween project. Have lots of fun, Regards, Tony D. At 03:10 AM 12/7/03 +, Steve Shyvers wrote: To all who've put up with my many questions in the past regarding coal firing and boiler design: yesterday I made significant and tangible progress toward building my own boiler by purchasing twenty-four genuine fire bricks to use to make a decent-sized hearth for silver soldering. It took only two telephone calls to find a local source, and the bricks could be bought in any quantity from one up. Whole and split bricks were available, and I chose the whole bricks at 92 cents each. Split bricks are half the thickness of a whole brick. My experience using regular bricks has shown that they heat through fairly quickly, so the whole bricks might provide a better heat shield for the tabletop, or whatever they're resting on, than the thinner split bricks. The fire bricks are larger than typical construction bricks. The measured L x W x H are 9 x 4.25 x 2.5 inches. The color is a light mustard. The manufacturer's specifications claim a stiff mud refractory fire brick that meets or exceeds ASTM C27-70 for Low Duty fire brick They weigh 7.4 pounds apiece, too. The quantity of twenty-four bricks was arbitrary; I have no specifiic plan in mind for the hearth. However with twenty-four bricks I should be able to make a hearth and stack some up to make a backstop and wings on either side. I do not intend to mortar the bricks together. Just stack them. Maybe I'll rig up a lazy-susan bearing with a couple of bricks on top for larger pieces. The bricks, by the way, were made by a company in Sacramento, California, that claims to have been in the business since 1878. I was curious and looked it up after hearing rumblings about the scarcity and unavailability of fire brick these days. Steve
Re: Steamup Photos
Hi Mike, Best Wishes to you and yours, and thanks for all the great photo,s you have taken and published for us all to see. Regards, Tony D. At 07:54 PM 11/29/03 -0800, you wrote: Happy day after Thanksgiving. I recently posted a few photos from a Steamup held on May 24, 2003 at Dan Liebowitz' photogenic railroad. They will be found at: http://www.panyo.com/dan3 Mike
Re: Fire!!!!! Burned
Hi Bob and Jackie, Our very personal thoughts are with you. Just picking up on weekend e mails, and very sorry to hear about the confirmation of the loss of your house. Words cannot express our sympathy, especially when earlier indications showed your house appeared to be ok. However very pleased to hear you both safely escaped the inferno in time, un-injured, and in good hands with local friends. When you decide on your recovery plans, and where, please let us know. We have some furniture and basic necessities we can offer, and bring to you, to help you back on your feet. Anything else, let us know. Very Best Wishes, Sincerely, Tony and Pat (Livermore) At 09:23 PM 11/1/03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just got a call from one of my neighbors and it is confirmed our house and all the others have burned. It is absolutely awful Bob
Re: Threading
At 08:57 AM 10/30/03 -0800, Royce Woodbury wrote: Hi Royce, Apologies to Wade, Anthony Dixon wrote: Sounds more like a split button die being used in the fully open position would not this cut the largest od thread ? Anything more closed would cut a smaller od thread, I am assuming. No neccessarily. The fully open split die is not designed to cut a full form thread in the maximum open position, but may only cut 25% of its correct depth and form. This allows the machinist to adjust the die down to correct size. If required. Also depends if one plans on cutting a new virgin thread from bar stock in one pass, or chasing (cleaning out) a previously formed thread. (I am also assuming!, that you are using a die holder with the three adjusting screws?. The centre one seated in the split of the die, and one each side of centre to adjust down to cut more materia). and not pre-adjusted adjusted down to optimum threading diameter, or incorrect o/d. Could also be a cheap soft Asian product, suitable only for cutting butter It is an DST brand (at least that is the marking on it). Which brings me to my next question, who makes good dies ? I am used to Brown and Sharp and Herbert dies, which are UK brands. Alternatively, if you are using cheap/soft non-adjustable dies or have poor alignment, poor tools, poor work prep, poor work methods, minimum lubricant etc. you do get a poor job!. I have been told that if you turn the stock to be threaded to the nominal OD (ie .09375 for 3/32), it is too large for the die to cut the correct thread. That you must cut a slightly smaller OD for the die to work properly. You know anything about that ? Yes. It is a threading anomoly that the o/d for threading should be -.002--.003 smaller than nominal in the sizes you are referring to, and could be -.005--.010 on larger sizes, (1 - 2 etc). Reason being that a full depth thread cut with a V tool will give you a sharp apex at the V. which will cause and interference fit with the matching female thread. (and radius in the core diameter. Therefore either start with the o/d undersize, or run a file across the top of a finished thread to make a small radius. If you look at tread profiles, both the o/d peak and bottom of the V have small radii. A split button die will make a radius at the peak automatically, providing the o/d is slightly u/size. Otherwise it will rip the extra material off the o/d, and cause a rough thread, due to excess material being trapped in the die. Could also damage and chip the die. Depends on TPI (threads per inch, pitch, depth and material. This was done on an EMCO V10 with all the care I could muster. However even professionals were amateurs once, but learn't by taking advice, learning, experience, been there done that, etc. That's why I'm looking to this list for answers. i.e. screwcutting/threading is a science and an art to be learnt correctly, if one wishes. Regardless if in ones home work shop or in an industrial facility. It is not achieved by quick fix/make do working methods. If a job is worth doing ! It should be obvious that my quest is for quality, not speed, or I wouldn't be turning threads in lieu of using dies. royce in SB Tony D.
Re: Threading
Sounds more like a split button die being used in the fully open position and not pre-adjusted adjusted down to optimum threading diameter, or incorrect o/d. Could also be a cheap soft Asian product, suitable only for cutting butter. The whole point of split dies as being adjustable, is to be able to be tweeked down to the correct dia, thread form etc in 1-2-or 3 passes for optimum setting. Once correct form is established and die set, then only a single pass is required to cut subsequent threads on a single pass. Alternatively, if you are using cheap/soft non-adjustable dies or have poor alignment, poor tools, poor work prep, poor work methods, minimum lubricant etc. you do get a poor job!. However even professionals were amateurs once, but learn't by taking advice, learning, experience, been there done that, etc. Typically cheaper products and quick fix methods do make very poor loose threads and rely on a cheap locking nut or datum face to pull everything square. Alternately a tight perfect form thread and a machined squared face will give a perfect lock, but will incur other problems. Depends on ones personal purpose, standards of quality or achievement. i.e. I would not want an engine safety valve with a poor or loose locking thread. Could also be why the many older working products/models made by skilled amateurs and professionals are still around and sought after, as opposed to the current 24hr lifetime cheap disposables. i.e. screwcutting/threading is a science and an art to be learnt correctly, if one wishes. Regardless if in ones home work shop or in an industrial facility. It is not achieved by quick fix/make do working methods. If a job is worth doing ! Tony D. At 09:31 AM 10/29/03 -0800, Royce Woodbury wrote: Harry Wade wrote: At 08:56 AM 10/29/03 -0800, you wrote: cuts what looks like a buttressed thread with 67% space between the threads and 33% thread. HORRIBLE ! Royce, Sounds like you have a faulty (malformed) die. That's my impression. Each time I thought it was something I was doing wrong. Yes. Me too. I can't rule out that I don't know everything. in a pinch I bought an Ace 1/4-28 die at the hardware store for $3.45 and I got exactly what I paid for . . . a crappy die. Done that too (before I got into the hobby). Have been a believer in buy the best - once or whatever the saying is. No more imports for me (although I buy Harbor Freight dial calipers by taking 1 and 2 test pieces to the store and checking stacks of them to find one that reads correctly at 0, 1 and 2. That's usually good enough for my purposes). thanks for your input. royce in SB
Re: The Fires!!!!!
Hi Bob, I have just got off the phone with Dan Pantages, and we were discussing the fire situation, you in particular, but primarily the status of your track. Must be psychic. My daughters were evacuated from the San Diego area also, then moved back. Hope all turns out well for you and Jackie. Tony D and Pat At 03:52 PM 10/29/03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To all on the list. Jackie and I are ok. We have been evacuated from our house in the mountains. Right at this moment it is possibly burning. We left there on Saturday and moved to a motel in Big Bear. That is a mountain town which is now twenty miles or less from the fire. We left today because smoke was too thick and we are now staying in Pasadena with a good friend. I need all your prayers to help me thru this. I have no idea when or if I will have a home to go back to. Bob Jackie
Re: G1MRA Members: Now Hear This !
Hi Art, Thanks for the info, but the latest issue I received was the Spring issue #197, and still looking for the Summer issue #198?. When did the Summer issue mail out?. I was on the point of checking out other recipients for info. If Summer issue was lost in the UK/USA mail, any chance of me receiving a replacement copy?. Appreciate your help and efforts on the journal. Very good job. Thank you, Tony D. At 12:48 PM 10/17/03 +0100, mart.towers wrote: Newsletter Journal #199, Autumn 2003, will go in the post this pm. Art Walker Editor
Re: G1MRA Members: Now Hear This !/missing copies
Hi Art, Thanks for your very fast response and offering a replacement copy of the Summer edition. Now I will have two great readings sessions to look forward to. I thought stiff upper lips was associated with seeing 1/1 A3s carrying foreign blinkers pulling Orient Express coaches. (or a Duchess pulling Fleche' D'or coaches - however looks ok at the 10' reference viewpoint, if short sighted, and at my typical running speeds). Looking forward to the journals. Best Regards, Thanks again, Tony D. At 11:49 PM 10/17/03 +0100, mart.towers wrote: - Original Message - From: Harry Wade [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 9:58 PM Subject: Re: G1MRA Members: Now Hear This ! At 12:29 PM 10/17/03 -0700, you wrote: Thanks for the info, but the latest issue I received was the Spring issue #197, and still looking for the Summer issue #198?. Tony D Art, Likewise I've never seen #198 and I did winder why so long between issues, but did I complain or make a fuss? Noo . . . . . . Perhaps US Post Office has a Wade-Dixon Line you are the wrong side of it. Anyway, Harry, I pronounce you an honorary Brit! Stiff upper lip all that. Don't make a fuss. Will send #198 to you to Tony. It was posted 17 July. Art
Re: ot: train trip photos ...
Hi Geoff, Agree that Dave's photo's taken on his trip are great momento's, and raise questions' at the same time. Ref. Coaches:- The English Pullman coaches (carrying princess and girls names) and as shown under the guise of the Simplon-Orient Express, actually ran on LNER, (London/Edinburgh), the GWR (London, Bristol and Penzance (Torbay Express) and Southern Railway (London, Brighton and London, Devon/Corwall as the Atlantic Coast Express etc. So you are well covered by having Pullmans behind both your KG5 and Flying Scotsman. Southern Railway actually ran Pullmans from London to Dover as the Golden Arrow, which in turn became the both the Fleche' D'Or Pullman's when passengers travelled from Calaise to Paris. The true Orient Express or Simplon Orient Express never ran in the UK, but was purely a French-Venice-Istanbul Express. However all the Pullmans both UK version and French versions originated from the same design source i.e. actually design by Pullman the USA designer and licensed to Wagon-Lits in France and Pullman coachworks in the UK. Only the interiors and external detailing reflecting UK or French decor as required. I understand that a company in both the UK and France is now buying up and restoring as many unused pullmans as possible and re-creating these special excursion trains.(Which is a good thing, but pushing the true historical facts a little). The latest phase or fad of calling several trains The Orient Express is gross poetic licence, as Australia, South Africa and the USA are now all running Orient Express tourist trap excursions. Flying Scotsman Apple Green colour is correct for the LNER pre-war era, and did not change to GWR type dark green until the British Railway take-over. Smoke Deflectors- the mini smoke deflectors were used as experimental tests on very selective individual A1/A2 and A3 class engines, as was the Kylchap blast pipes and double chimney's. Also the German type half size smoke deflectors. I have photos of A3 60105 Victor Wilde carrying these deflectors. I know of at least one A3 carrying the mini deflectors, but it was not Flying Scotsman. I suggest the current owners of this engine are taking poetic license to extremes again. No A3s ever carried the full size Blinkers/deflectors, as per A1/A2 class engines, (or the LMS Duchess class. Incidentally, several times I was allowed to set the signals for the Flying Scotsman when it was used to pull the Master Cutler express from Sheffield to Marylebone, when delivering the morning papers to the local signal box near Nottingham, many moons ago. (Also put pennies on the line to be squashed!). At that time it was pulling teak coaches. Regardless, great photo's and fine records of a great trip. Happy Times, Tony D. I keep going back to those wonderful photos of the A3--Are you sure it was not the Fireman looking weary? He should have been!! Secondly, the color of those coaches look like ex GWR??--if so, I can pull my GWR behind the A3 and be modern day protypical which should make the things almost acceptable to rivet counters? We didn't have rivet counters in Sacramento, thank goodness--in addition to Rob's delightful goods wagons, my KGV pulled LNER teaks and S.R coaches--no one even blinked!! I also need to be informed by someone about those smoke deflectors--like the history of them on the A3--Sir Art, where are you?? Dave, Thanks again, and again! Geoff. i was in london last week on business and shirleen came along to commune with the museums. we had but one free day and decided to spend it on a steam train. there was a little surprise when we got off to take a look at the engine. you can see the pictures at http://www.shirleen.com/031010-london/ \dmc -- ^^^ Dave Cole Gen'l Sup't: Grand Teton Everglades Steam Excursion Co. Pacifica, Calif. USA http://45mm.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTEND THE NATIONAL SUMMER STEAMUP IN SACRAMENTO, JULY 21-25, 2004 For more information, visit the web site at http://www.summersteamup.com ^^^
Re: A convergence of the Starrs
Hi Bob and Jackie, Congratulations and Very Best Wishes for years to come Thanks for help making the Sacramento Steamup a great event. Hope to see you guys again in the very near future. Regards to each, Tony and Pat D. At 08:34 PM 8/16/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I beg the boards indulgence with this off topic subject. I just would like to tell you all that Jackie and I are married now. I must have gotten some steam oil in my eye or something :-). Hey! She is a fine woman, and she likes trains! What more could a guy ask for. We are very happy. Bob and Jackie Starr
Re: A convergence of the Starrs
Congratulationsshould have done it at the steam up we could have had a real party.Hope you both will be very happy all the best Pat and Tony D.At 08:34 PM 8/16/03 -0400, you wrote: I beg the boards indulgence with this off topic subject. I just would like to tell you all that Jackie and I are married now. I must have gotten some steam oil in my eye or something :-). Hey! She is a fine woman, and she likes trains! What more could a guy ask for. We are very happy. Bob and Jackie Starr
Re: Great steamup!
Hi David, FYI. If you are keeping a scorecard on anniversaries interupted by the Sacremento Steamup week, you can add two family birthdays, including mine, to our wedding anniversary also. Happy Birthday Toot-Toot, Happy Birthday Toot-Toot!. Must be something to do with the July climate in the UK, but most probably the only dry warm week of the year there. Regards, Tony D. At 08:25 AM 7/24/03 -0700, Dave Cole wrote: So, rub it in. I missed a great event. But then I had a great anniversary weekend, much to my wife's delight. ack! you are now the *third* couple we know who got married on that weekend. what is it about steamers and getting married in july? ;-) ... So, who won the raffle ? there wasn't a raffle ... but pete thorp of san luis obispo won the shay, if that's what you mean. \dmc -- ^^^ Dave Cole Gen'l Sup't: Grand Teton Everglades Steam Excursion Co. Pacifica, Calif. USA http://45mm.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTEND THE NATIONAL SUMMER STEAMUP IN SACRAMENTO, JULY 15-18, 2004 For more information, visit the web site at http://www.summersteamup.com ^^^
Re: IR thermometer range
Hi Guys, I have been using an IR thermometer sold by Radio Shack for approx $40 to measure Gauge 1 casing and paint surface temps etc. Measures up to 500F or C equivalent. Very small and compact. Ideal for measuring those engine surface temps. And no toy. You can pick up some very usefull (and surprising) info by using one of these. Tony D. At 09:30 AM 7/15/03 -0500, Trent Dowler wrote: Heat treat monitoring in what capacity? 1000F is well below any range I've ever encountered for heat treating (with the exception of aluminum alloys). Sounds like a fun toy, but I'm not sure about it's real world usefulness on our little locomotives. Many people on this list are better informed than myself on those aspects. - Trent Mike Eorgoff wrote: Since 1000F is less than what is needed for heat treat monitoring and some brazing, would the 600F model be high enough to determine non-flame temperatures on our small models. Like how hot is the flue gas, how hot are the cylinders, how hot is the outside of the boiler. Basically, everything other than the flame temperature.
Shirt Logo
Hi David, Tried to call you this am, but my cell phone was not hooking up. FYI. Last night I sent Scott at Tshirtpro the JPG file you sent out to us, to see if they could open it up and use. (Fortuneately I had took their file and logo disk with me). Scott confirmed this am that they had received it and was working on the design. I did not get into details as to the problems with the files you sent, due to poor cell phone contact. But all is ok, and I will have shirts etc in hand with logo early next week. (I may collect from Fresno myself). Best Regards, and Thanks, Tony D.
Re: Videos,
Hi Geoff, Now you know how I finance my engines!, by buying cheeepi tapes, and nothing over a $1. Refinancing my stocks and shares that way also. When they are only a $1, you do not lose so much!. I also received some of the $1 tapes for Xmas. They are a good buy, and I have cheeep kids!. Guess I taught em too well!. You well prepped for Sacramento?. (We could sell these tapes at the show for $10 and split the profit?). Think anyone would notice?. See ya soon. Regards, Tony D. At 05:09 PM 7/7/03 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Steamers, I don't know haow many of you have Dollar Tree in your areas, if you do, a tip: Our local store in the rurals has some wonderful train videos for a $1--I have 6 that are fabulous. African, Indian, East Germany (prior to unification) Argentina, China etc. A lot of them are NG and extremley interesting and well done. Lots of steam action! (I'm afraid the narrators do talk funny like me). I can't speak too highly of these videos. The one of southern India is thru some of the most beautiful mountain scenery in the world, The locos are Swiss made NG with a cog rail in the middle--a dual purpose loco!, an extremely well engineered and interesting engine. Also, have you ever heard of a German engine that was built with additional tractor wheels that run on the outside on concrete strips? Geoff.
Re: Aster paint
Hi Mike, Good question. If you find out please advise. I made similar enquiries via the USA Aster agents, last year, and was advised they do not know the actual paint used, and would not offer suggestions.(Trade secret?). But they did inform me that the only thinner for the thick paint as supplied in the original kits, required a strong concentration of carbon tetrachloride (no-no in CA), thinner to break it down. (I was repairing multiple fine scratches on a friends U1 tender). Also it was suggested to try warming the paint samples in an oven to soften it slightly for thinning?. The thinners I did find, which admitted to having tetrachloride, were still to weak to thin out the paint for spraying purposes, or soften the original painted surface, so we elected to leave the finite scratches 'as is, and not risk a total respray over an unknown paint, together with the potential matching color' problems. I suspect the original paint is a type of baked stove enamel. There is no doubt it is extremely durable and heat resistant. However I do know of one instance when clear masking tape used for packing an engine, actually lifted the paint when peeled away. Sorry do not have more info. Hopefully others on line can help fill in the missing links. Regards, Tony D. PS. I understand carbon-tetrachloride is used as the prime basic chemical ingredient for Laundry House Dry Cleaning, has nasty effects on lungs, kidney's etc. and not popular with the EPA/OSHA. I need to strip some brush painting off the side of an Aster Climax. What type of paint would Aster have used in the 1982 time frame, and what was it's solvent. I want to try any other solvent first, but not that one, to try and get the brushed paint off. Mike Eorgoff
Re: Steamup June 21
Hi Gary, Did Tom pass on my message about trying Indian Motorcycles for a real job. I heard a distant friend of mine started there 2-3 weeks ago. Also they were advertising in the San Jose Mercury news on Sunday. I am also working 2 days a week part time and still looking for a 40+hr week job. Best Regards, Tony D.At 10:20 PM 6/8/03 -0700, you wrote: Tony, Glad you will be able to attend! I have full length tracked on the steamup bay now. I have been quite busy trying to make a living selling track. Heads above water still. Also keeping an eye open for possible real job! Gary
Re: Steamup June 21
Hi Gary, Thanks for the invite. Hope all ok with you and your family?. Was wondering when you had another steamup planned. Steam events have been few and quiet lately. Please add me to your list of planned attendees. Hope you have increased the steamup bay. I am running with 9-10 coaches now!. Best regards, Tony D. At 09:52 AM 6/6/03 -0700, Gary Broeder wrote: We will be hosting a steamup as part of the annual Morgan Hill railroad day layout tour Saturday June 21. Gary Broeder
Steam up Shirst etc.
Hi Sonny, I would like to get moving on placing the Steam Up apparel orders. Could you please send me the latest order list details. I suggest we take the order as is, and add 10-20% for late orders and sales at the steamup. I know the supplier said 4 weeks lead time, but we are into June now, and only 6 weeks away!. David, Could you please post the shirt logo in living colour for all the committee to see. Need to define a shirt colour to match. Would like to confirm details to supplier, and for you to send him the logo by the end of this week. Charlie Lix- I see Charlie has already made contact. But delivering the track on Thursday?. Is there still a need for me to chase him to bring track earlier?. Keith Holman- I will try to contact him also to confirm yea or ne'. Commander contact - Not me!. I assume he received, saw and read the flyer like everyone else. Thank you, Regards, Tony
Re: Materials compatibility
Hi JR, Really good feedback, and I recognise many parrallel actions and reactions in my 10mm scale coal burners. I run two coal burners, one is controlled 'by hand, which has only two controls, one for throttle and one for the blower, with a slip eccentric controlling forward and reverse. Has a dummy Walschearts valve gear. The second engine is radio controlled, with working Walschearts valve gear, and R/C controls for the throttle, blower, Johnson Bar and cylinder drain cocks. Also have an Aster U1 which also has full Walschearts valve gear, hand controlled, and can be run on coal or alcohol. With the slip eccentric engine, without radio control, after firing up to 80PSI and with a red hot fire, I add 2-3 loads of coal before release. The running technique is to use both wide throttle (1/2 turn open) throttle, and 1/4 turn blower for starting off with 6-7 coaches, and once under way, reduce throttle to 1/8 turn on throttle and 1/16 turn on the blower. This gives a steady speed with enough throttle and blower, to pull the load out of the tighter bends after natural slowing, but not allow an out of control speed on the straights, heading for the curves. So almost a set and release driving method. When the pressure drops to 30-35 lbs, which is typically after 3-4 laps of my 300' track. I stop the engine, load 2-3 loads of coal, open up the blower for approx. minute or so, build pressure to 45-50psi, close blower to 1/16 turn and release again. I have one really tight curve which brings the engine to almost a standstill, but the blast increases greatly under this load, and pulls the load through the curve and up to straight line speed again, till the next curve. With the UI, a 4 cyl. compound with Walschearts and hand controlled. The Johnson bar is set at full position, with throttle 1/2 turn open and blower at 1/8 to start off. Once under way, and after approx 200', the engine really takes off as all the cylinders warm up. So requires cutting the Johnson bar to approx 40% cut-off, closing blower to 1/32 turn and 1/8 throttle to achieve the same constant speed as above. However running on alcohol does not give the really noisy blast when pulling out of the curves. The U1 is a really quiet engine for its size. Engine will cruise at 40-50psi for several laps before pressure drops as the alcohol runs out. However the R/C Controlled coal burner with Walschearts is a totally different animal. It has a hand throttle which can be pre-set according to starting and running load, before release. This hand throttle remains open at all times in pre-set position while running. The R/C control on the Johnson bar, for forward, nuetral and reverse are infinately notchable on the left hand control stick. The throttle and blower are controlled on the right hand control stick, with the initial 1/4 of stick movement controlling the blower, the next 2-3 notches control the cylinder drain cocks, and remaining stick movement controls the throttle. Which is also infinately notchable. At firing up, the hand throttle is closed, R/C throttle closed, and R/C blower is opened when pressure reaches 45psi. At 80-90psi at start-off, the Johnson bar is set in fully open position, the throttle is opened through the blower position and cuts it off. The drain cocks are opened through 2-3 notches, to blow down steam and water and then throttle opened more to move off. As the load is taken up, I reduce the Johnson bar by approx 10%, and back off on the throttle. As speed is built up, I reduce the Johnson bar setting again to approx 50%. Typical running with 7 coaches and 50lb load is 1/2 throttle and 50% on Johnson bar. With the R/C notchable increments, it is surprising what affect 1 or two notches to the throttle and/or the Johnson bar makes, and the amount of balance one can achieve and maintain. Thereby actually driving the track as opposed to set and release. Which is something never experienced in the non-r/c engines. Also there is a dwell time between action on the stick and re-action of the engine, which takes some getting used to. (I have flown R/C planes and used to instant on controls). Also by throttling back into the blower zone and and opening up on the johnson bar, you can generate more draft and build up pressure back up, if dropping off. However this is the sign that the fire needs replenising, but you do get some warning or feedback from the engine that this is neccessary. When re-coaling I can keep the blower open by R/C or by keeping the hand throttle slightly open and R/C off. Types of coal are an entirely different issue!. Regards, Tony D. There are three controls that I have seen that might regulate what goes up the stack. That would be the johnson bar, cylinder drains, and fire thickness. There are also mechanical issues such as leaks around the smoke box door, or a crummy firebox door, not to mention the petti coat and baffles in
Re: Materials compatibility
Hi JR, Please you appreciated the details. I forgot to mention the super elevated curves we can use in Guage 1, and sometimes need if caught out by the dwell time!. Also, what is a Diesel, are they allowed on this website!!!???. Best Regards, Tony D. At 04:40 PM 4/2/03 -0500, JR May wrote: Tony D: Fantastic write up. Simply fantastic. I am amazed at how things are the same from full sized down to Gauge 1. Especially the delay or dwell time you talk about. Prior to heading into the curve on the smaller full sized engines we run, you have to give it some throttle or you die in the curve. The shay is the most instantly reactive, our 4-4-0T has the longest dwell.The diesels (25ton and 55 ton GE diesel electrics) are real dogs. Throttle must be provided before hitting the full impact of the curve or there is a noticeable slow down.I believe this is due in part to the time it takes for the relays to kick in as the generator RPMs come up. Very mushy, unless you really give the throttle a pull. Great write up. Many thanks. J.R. - Original Message - From: Anthony Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 3:34 PM Subject: Re: Materials compatibility Hi JR, Really good feedback, and I recognise many parrallel actions and reactions in my 10mm scale coal burners. I run two coal burners, one is controlled 'by hand, which has only two controls, one for throttle and one for the blower, with a slip eccentric controlling forward and reverse. Has a dummy Walschearts valve gear. The second engine is radio controlled, with working Walschearts valve gear, and R/C controls for the throttle, blower, Johnson Bar and cylinder drain cocks. Also have an Aster U1 which also has full Walschearts valve gear, hand controlled, and can be run on coal or alcohol. With the slip eccentric engine, without radio control, after firing up to 80PSI and with a red hot fire, I add 2-3 loads of coal before release. The running technique is to use both wide throttle (1/2 turn open) throttle, and 1/4 turn blower for starting off with 6-7 coaches, and once under way, reduce throttle to 1/8 turn on throttle and 1/16 turn on the blower. This gives a steady speed with enough throttle and blower, to pull the load out of the tighter bends after natural slowing, but not allow an out of control speed on the straights, heading for the curves. So almost a set and release driving method. When the pressure drops to 30-35 lbs, which is typically after 3-4 laps of my 300' track. I stop the engine, load 2-3 loads of coal, open up the blower for approx. minute or so, build pressure to 45-50psi, close blower to 1/16 turn and release again. I have one really tight curve which brings the engine to almost a standstill, but the blast increases greatly under this load, and pulls the load through the curve and up to straight line speed again, till the next curve. With the UI, a 4 cyl. compound with Walschearts and hand controlled. The Johnson bar is set at full position, with throttle 1/2 turn open and blower at 1/8 to start off. Once under way, and after approx 200', the engine really takes off as all the cylinders warm up. So requires cutting the Johnson bar to approx 40% cut-off, closing blower to 1/32 turn and 1/8 throttle to achieve the same constant speed as above. However running on alcohol does not give the really noisy blast when pulling out of the curves. The U1 is a really quiet engine for its size. Engine will cruise at 40-50psi for several laps before pressure drops as the alcohol runs out. However the R/C Controlled coal burner with Walschearts is a totally different animal. It has a hand throttle which can be pre-set according to starting and running load, before release. This hand throttle remains open at all times in pre-set position while running. The R/C control on the Johnson bar, for forward, nuetral and reverse are infinately notchable on the left hand control stick. The throttle and blower are controlled on the right hand control stick, with the initial 1/4 of stick movement controlling the blower, the next 2-3 notches control the cylinder drain cocks, and remaining stick movement controls the throttle. Which is also infinately notchable. At firing up, the hand throttle is closed, R/C throttle closed, and R/C blower is opened when pressure reaches 45psi. At 80-90psi at start-off, the Johnson bar is set in fully open position, the throttle is opened through the blower position and cuts it off. The drain cocks are opened through 2-3 notches, to blow down steam and water and then throttle opened more to move off. As the load is taken up, I reduce the Johnson bar by approx 10%, and back off on the throttle. As speed is built up, I reduce the Johnson bar setting again to approx 50%. Typical running with 7 coaches and 50lb load is 1/2 throttle and 50% on Johnson
Re: Materials compatibility
Hi Geoff, Of course, they were pieces of eight. Just using a little poetic licence relative to the correct lapping method you described. Question:- If I start getting 1/8 size red hot coals being thrown out of the chimney, of the Duchess, does this mean the blower draught is a little strong!?. (Joke, but true). I now think I may need to place a piece of stainless steel mesh inside the bottom of the petticoat, primarily to keep such sparkies inside the smokebox, but it also needs to sit below the suction fan nozzle at fire-up. However, the mesh may also affect the path of the blower jet and disperse it before it enters the petticoat, thereby minimising its intended affect. Have you experienced a similar problem from your large scale, Britannia?, or are you waiting to set your real estate on fire yet first?. Any thoughts?. Regards, Tony D. At 03:06 PM 3/28/03 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Ello Tony, Trust you to be a smart alec--I thought they were pieces of eight!! Well, you have the Duchess and the Britannia, so you must know! Cheers, Geoff. Hi Geoff, As Punch said to Judy, (or the Duchess to Britannia), and Long John Silver's parrot. That's the way to do it, figures of eight, figures of eight!. Regards, Tony D. At 12:24 PM 3/27/03 -0800, you wrote: Royce, Based on my experience in the compressed air industry, I would suggest the following: The valve block surface and the valves should be finally finished with 1000 grit on a properly precision machined steel plate , then on a piece of real plate glass using a very light lapping compound such as bon-ami, to the extent where a high polish (like a mirror) is obtained indicating that there are no scratches or burrs. The parts should be moved on the glass in a figure eight movement, preferably to a back and forth or circular movement. This will help insure that the surface of the parts are polished evenly. Intensive washing of the parts to remove all the abrasive materials and metal is essential when all is done. Before all this make sure the ports are clear of burrs and wash thoroughly--you don't want chips of metal to be around as you start the lapping procedure. Geoff. Hi Phil. Thanks for responding to my dilemma. On initial installation, I think I hit the valve face and port face with 600 grit wet or dry oil before the first run. But I didn't break the sharp edge on the bottom of the valve. On the first run, it may be that the assembly oil ( read that turbine oil) may have run dry (although I would be surprised if that happened within 5 minutes of running). However,the scratches (which I am assuming are the result of galling) reappeared after removal of the inital scratches by re- honing. The plans call for both parts to me made of brass, so I am beginning to think that there is a problem with the bronze that I used to make the valves. Some impurities may be causing the problem. royce in SB Phil Paskos wrote: Hmm. If the materials are finished well, no sharp edges etc and you're using steam oil that is getting to the ports, I'm surprised that is happening. Phil P
Re: Materials compatibility
Hi Geoff, Yes, you are correct. I did mean the exhaust nozzles. They both have in fact already been reduced once by Mike, to reduce the fierceness of the blast, which had caused the previous high temps, and blistered paint!. This weekend, with the red coals flying, the casing temperature was reading 286F. So I guess I am getting up there again, and you may be correct about the load. My track has some tight radii and S bends, plus 7 coaches at 50lbs+, engine at 28lbs, and a thick coating of white hot anthracite certainly makes the blast pipes bark.. Whereas on a large plain oval track, with the same load and constant momentum, the blast is much quieter. As to be expected. I have concerns about fitting a mesh screen after firing up, what is the melting point of facial skin!??. I guess I have to learn when to back off!. Have a great day. Best Regards, Tony D. a At 12:17 PM 3/31/03 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Tony, Any discussion of coal, blowers and exhaust nozzles is always worth discussion. Firstly, I would hazard a guess that cinders (in pieces of eight?) from the chimney would be more likely be a problem with the smaller scales. You write blower, do you mean the exhaust nozzle too, or just the blower? I have a few problems with cinders on the 3/4 scale but only one occurrence of any significance was a few years ago with an OS Porter, the cinders caught my hair on fire and started a small grass fire--the engine was working hard and the nozzle blast caused the cinders to fly from the stack. It was great! The stainless steel mesh may work might work but I wouldn't bother--even the prototypes ( according to Steam World) would blow out cinders when working hard. It's probably those heavy JM coaches you haul with the Duchess. On the other hand is the exhaust nozzle the right size--should it be enlarged--or reduced? One suggestion, if you can stand the departure from realism, would be to have a spark arrester you can insert in the chimney after steam is up, like a piece of stainless steel tube with a SS screen--the tube could be a tight fit--but would that interfere with the draught--( slurp)? Well time to experiment! You can Americanize a small pwrt of the Duchesss! In closing, I say: Let the sparks fly, or, Let the FIRE Fall as we said in Yosemite yesteryear when the fire was dropped from Glacier Point! Geoff Hi Geoff, Of course, they were pieces of eight. Just using a little poetic licence relative to the correct lapping method you described. Question:- If I start getting 1/8 size red hot coals being thrown out of the chimney, of the Duchess, does this mean the blower draught is a little strong!?. (Joke, but true). I now think I may need to place a piece of stainless steel mesh inside the bottom of the petticoat, primarily to keep such sparkies inside the smokebox, but it also needs to sit below the suction fan nozzle at fire-up. However, the mesh may also affect the path of the blower jet and disperse it before it enters the petticoat, thereby minimising its intended affect. Have you experienced a similar problem from your large scale, Britannia?, or are you waiting to set your real estate on fire yet first?. Any thoughts?. Regards, Tony D. At 03:06 PM 3/28/03 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Ello Tony, Trust you to be a smart alec--I thought they were pieces of eight!! Well, you have the Duchess and the Britannia, so you must know! Cheers, Geoff.
Re: Materials compatibility
Hi JR, I agree, I did not really want to have to put a screen inside the petticoat, unless a last resort, and already feared it may affect the path of the nozzle blast. So I just will have to back off on the blower a little, and just enjoy the sparks as opposed to the 1/8+ size cinders. At 10mm scale, did the 1/1 scale engine really throw out 4 cinders if firebox screens were not fitted?. I do not recall having to duck from these, even when climbing Shap Summit and 18 coaches on. I do not recall seeing screens per se', inside the fireboxes either, only the arches or fireplates. Perhaps these are the screens you refer too?. I have thought of trying a temporary fireplate to my 10mm coal engines though. Regards, Tony D. At 04:24 PM 3/31/03 -0500, JR May wrote: The screening on a full size locomotive was not below the petticoat. That is just a bad place for it and would hinder draft way too much. In the smoke box there are screens and baffles that catch the cinders which gives more surface area for the screening. Check the Locomotive Dictionary for a picture or I can scan it for you. A diamond stack might be another approach which has a funnel like thing in the base of the diamond which catches many of the cinders and they fall to a collection spot in the stack. Bottom line? Cinders are a fact of life, even with baffles and screens. I'd risk a fire or two myself! It makes it more interesting. - Original Message - From: Geoff Spenceley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 3:17 PM Subject: Re: Materials compatibility Tony, Any discussion of coal, blowers and exhaust nozzles is always worth discussion. Firstly, I would hazard a guess that cinders (in pieces of eight?) from the chimney would be more likely be a problem with the smaller scales. You write blower, do you mean the exhaust nozzle too, or just the blower? I have a few problems with cinders on the 3/4 scale but only one occurrence of any significance was a few years ago with an OS Porter, the cinders caught my hair on fire and started a small grass fire--the engine was working hard and the nozzle blast caused the cinders to fly from the stack. It was great! The stainless steel mesh may work might work but I wouldn't bother--even the prototypes ( according to Steam World) would blow out cinders when working hard. It's probably those heavy JM coaches you haul with the Duchess. On the other hand is the exhaust nozzle the right size--should it be enlarged--or reduced? One suggestion, if you can stand the departure from realism, would be to have a spark arrester you can insert in the chimney after steam is up, like a piece of stainless steel tube with a SS screen--the tube could be a tight fit--but would that interfere with the draught--( slurp)? Well time to experiment! You can Americanize a small pwrt of the Duchesss! In closing, I say: Let the sparks fly, or, Let the FIRE Fall as we said in Yosemite yesteryear when the fire was dropped from Glacier Point! Geoff Hi Geoff, Of course, they were pieces of eight. Just using a little poetic licence relative to the correct lapping method you described. Question:- If I start getting 1/8 size red hot coals being thrown out of the chimney, of the Duchess, does this mean the blower draught is a little strong!?. (Joke, but true). I now think I may need to place a piece of stainless steel mesh inside the bottom of the petticoat, primarily to keep such sparkies inside the smokebox, but it also needs to sit below the suction fan nozzle at fire-up. However, the mesh may also affect the path of the blower jet and disperse it before it enters the petticoat, thereby minimising its intended affect. Have you experienced a similar problem from your large scale, Britannia?, or are you waiting to set your real estate on fire yet first?. Any thoughts?. Regards, Tony D. At 03:06 PM 3/28/03 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Ello Tony, Trust you to be a smart alec--I thought they were pieces of eight!! Well, you have the Duchess and the Britannia, so you must know! Cheers, Geoff.
Re: Materials compatibility
Hi Geoff, As Punch said to Judy, (or the Duchess to Britannia), and Long John Silver's parrot. That's the way to do it, figures of eight, figures of eight!. Regards, Tony D. At 12:24 PM 3/27/03 -0800, you wrote: Royce, Based on my experience in the compressed air industry, I would suggest the following: The valve block surface and the valves should be finally finished with 1000 grit on a properly precision machined steel plate , then on a piece of real plate glass using a very light lapping compound such as bon-ami, to the extent where a high polish (like a mirror) is obtained indicating that there are no scratches or burrs. The parts should be moved on the glass in a figure eight movement, preferably to a back and forth or circular movement. This will help insure that the surface of the parts are polished evenly. Intensive washing of the parts to remove all the abrasive materials and metal is essential when all is done. Before all this make sure the ports are clear of burrs and wash thoroughly--you don't want chips of metal to be around as you start the lapping procedure. Geoff. Hi Phil. Thanks for responding to my dilemma. On initial installation, I think I hit the valve face and port face with 600 grit wet or dry oil before the first run. But I didn't break the sharp edge on the bottom of the valve. On the first run, it may be that the assembly oil ( read that turbine oil) may have run dry (although I would be surprised if that happened within 5 minutes of running). However,the scratches (which I am assuming are the result of galling) reappeared after removal of the inital scratches by re- honing. The plans call for both parts to me made of brass, so I am beginning to think that there is a problem with the bronze that I used to make the valves. Some impurities may be causing the problem. royce in SB Phil Paskos wrote: Hmm. If the materials are finished well, no sharp edges etc and you're using steam oil that is getting to the ports, I'm surprised that is happening. Phil P
Re: Online Survey
Hi Harry, I agree. Many people would like a Ferrari, but 99.% cannot afford one, or more realistic, and content with home tweaking their Ford/Chevy/Dodge whatever, and less paraniod about parking in Nordstrom's. Regards, Tony D. At 10:17 AM 3/18/03 -0600, Harry Wade wrote: At 06:52 PM 3/17/03 -0800, you wrote: Sounds like someone dislikes Aster in particular and people who run ' em in general. Dem grapes sure are looking sour! Wouldn't be the first. At DH several years ago an individual from the northeast was noticeably vocal in his criticism of Aster, to the point where you had to ask yourself what's wrong with this picture? (or . . OK already, we hear you, please feel free to keep further opinion to yourself.) It was a simple case of sour grapes. Aster products are out of reach for many, even if they wanted one, but such is life. Several years ago when I was still riding all my riding buddies rode $15,000+ bikes and mine might have brought $1500, but I rode just as far and as fast and had just as much fun as they did, and I never had to worry about someone accidentally putting a fingerprint on it. Regards, Harry
Re: Online Survey
Ditto to Gary. 100%. Sounds like someone dislikes Aster,s in particular and people who run ' em in general. Dem grapes sure are looking sour!. But the fried cock roaches taste ok. and really crunchy. Especially when washed down with a Watney's. Have not yet tried toasting them on a cocktail stick over a coal burner though. Regards, Tony D. At 05:04 PM 3/17/03 -0800, Gary wrote: I for one am delighted that Aster managed to change from making gears for mechanical calculators to making very detailed steam locos. I expect if anyone of us wanted to make some locos we too would wish to know if we were going to go broke or make money on our investment of time and money. Good for them, they plan production. This way they stay in business long enough to make a loco I can afford (since there is no way I can dream of buying a Challenger!). Regarding liability of gas . . . I expect Mr. Lunkemheimer is correct, attorneys lurk around any sucessful company hoping to find a way to sue. Attorneys almost eliminated the American small aircraft industry. I hope attorney's never decide our hobby has enough money to sue live steam manufacturers for producing something that can toast a finger or make a burn (think of MacDonald's coffee award). Hopefully all of us realize the nature of our hobby is to make the dragons hot so we can enjoy watching them move. We just have to keep others away from our little finger toasters so they don't feel inclined to sue. Gary - Running trains over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor The only survey/poll/etc. that Aster is interested in answers the following: How many people are interested in putting up $x000,000.00 dollars in advance so that y number of locomotives of z type can be built and delivered freight ppd by buyer, who will also be the distributor, order taker, question answerer, repair person, re-shipper, crying towel holder, etc., etc., etc. And it will be alcohol fired because we are afraid of the liability of gas! In other words, you pay for it in advance and we will build it! Keep your steam up! Mr. Lunkemheimer
Re: Different strokes - Aster survey, fuel choices, etc. etc.
Hi Jeff, Very well said. You must be really wound up and on a roll. Where did the well used coal fired K27 at $5,000 from a stranger come from?. I understood it was brand new. At least the one I saw was. Great input. Regards, Tony D. At 08:29 PM 3/17/03 -0800, Jeffrey Williams wrote: Observing the great coal vs. alcohol vs. butane debate, then the great Aster/Accucraft/do-it-ourselves survey debate, it seems to me that folks are assuming that everyone enjoys the same thing about our hobby. My scan is that some people like tight control their locos (radio control), some people like to hover over their locos and get really messy (coal), some people like to fuss over their locos and set fire to the environment and run for hours on end (alcohol) and some people like to light off their babies and watch them be little dragons (butaners) and (dare I say it on a live steam message board), some people like bulletproof, no hassle, no burned fingers, no flaming scenery entertainment (sparkies) There's no right answer here, kids! Pearse is addressing the RC set Custom/very low production builders are servicing the coal shovelers for a significant financial premium Aster has a stable market with the well-heeled alcoholics (note the quick sell out of $20,000 Alleghenies and the $12K+ market for used Daylights and Bigboys) Roundhouse and Accucraft are selling to the stand-back-and-light-the-burner bunch with modest checking accounts and A zillion dollar/pound/euro/yen customer demand for sparkies is addressed by lots and lots of high volume manufacturers who can turn out incredibly detailed and very reliable electric locos for $500. So if Accucraft had offered a brand new, 12-month-guaranteed coal-fired K-27 for a $500 premium, you bet I would have spent the kids' inheritance to get one instead of the butane-fired beauty I bought. On the other hand, buying a very-used out-of-production DJB coal fired K-27 from someone I didn't know who lived 3000 miles away for $5000 (just guessing here) would give me pause. Bottom line is that manufacturers get started because they think that they are addressing a unique niche market. They modify their product line to address changes/opportunities in the market (Aster starting building sparkies, Accucraft started building live steam, Roundhouse offering RC). You can send in all the surveys you like, folks, It's how you vote with your dollars/pounds/euros/yen that will determine future offerings. Aster still has Colorado and Southern butane-fired Moguls for sale 12 years after their introduction. Accucraft still has electric 1:24 GLENBROOK Moguls for sale in spite of a production run of only 20. Aster and Accucraft will not ignore these lessons.
Re: Surveys Fuel
Maybe not. But as David said, by selecting the people you want to sample and automatically eliminating others, either by background, employment, health, age, etc.etc. then the poll sample is already polluted. In other words, eliminate anything which is likely to give you an answer you do not want, whether a majority or not and ignore the democratic vote results also = Dictatorship. (Sound familiar-oops!). Alternatively - Asters' method of polling current owners (if known), regardless of age, employment, health etc.etc. seems to be a perfect starting point in defining a future production planning course. Especially as the cost of designing introducting another limited run engine can be prohibitive. e.g. Aster prefer the limited run path, knowing their past reputation has a devoted following despite the higher purchase prices, whereas Accucraft are perfecting the higher volume releases relying on quantity and establishing quality standards in these lower price ranges also. I suggest they have a good strategy in prefering to keep away from potential alcohol burner problem hazards, by keeping to the safer butane in defference to the fact most of their engines will be bought by first time buyers, and somewhat safer using butane?. I would suggest that Accucraft have also polled some customers especially prior to release of the K27 and Daylight, in an attempt to impinge and undercut Aster's previous domain. Hopefully this competition will benefit all customers, regardless of background!. Wish we could get some agreements on standardizing scales though. I still do not understand how some manufacturers can keep introducing oddball gauge engines and stock and expect the current stock owners to change over at a whim?. Not a good way to run a railroad!. Tony D. I was speaking of surveys in general. Of those who responded to Aster's survey who were they is a better question. The best survey would be either all Aster customers or a true random sample. A random sample would mean than if you were picked you could not refuse to fill out the survey or the sample would be skewed. Gary - Running trains over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor - Original Message - From: Jeff Runge To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 7:18 PM Subject: Re: Surveys Fuel Gary, the focus group was CURRENT ASTER OWNERS, so you are saying you think aster customers are unemployed ? I doubt it, retired, I hope I'm buying 20k engines when I retire, disabled..maybe , stuck at home? plenty of us make it to DH and with our Aster engines. But maybe some do get snowed in. Aster was polling their customer group. When was the last time Accucraft or Roundhouse asked thier North American market what they would like.? Jeff in NC - Original Message - From: Gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 9:28 PM Subject: Surveys Fuel I fully agree with /dmc regarding surveys. I wish to add that surveys are only as good as the sampling method. If the sampling is skewed then results are either skewed (how much is the question) or completely bogus. Volunteers for a survey tend to be bored (unemployed, retired, disabled, stuck at home) or have a burning opinion that probably does not reflect the general opinion of the target group. The type of statistical test is also important. If the incorrect statistical method is used then results are not accurate. The field of statistics is one that a little knowledge is truly disasterous. Sophomore = wise fool, which all too often describes those who conclude drastic new information from misapplied statistics, poor research design, or poorly controlled sampling. I wonder at the stats AristoCraft and LGB provided. LGB seems to claim a smaller market share than purchases indicate in Oregon and California at least. The term market could be interpreted very differently. Market can reflect actual purchasers of their products, purchasers of their companies product in the USA, or projections of potential market. Nothing is as simple as we would like. bagrs annual meeting in which reveal the answers to some basic questions of five different large-scale scale makers (Aristo, Hartland, LGB, MTH and USA). the results were completely inconclusive, but what blew my mind was their individual projections of the size of the market. Harland, MTH and USA didn't answer the question; Aristo said more than 100,000 and LGB said less than 50,000. Gary - Brushing off graduate school statistics concepts instead of running trains over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor a bunch of people answering questions off a web site or off a mailing list (even one as august as this) is still
Re: surveying owners
Hi Peter, I have two Asters, both built up as kits. But never saw an Aster registration card in either kit. Do they in fact have a registration card?. My input on future models was only during phone calls I had with Jerry Hyde, and while the Flying Scotsman was a gleam in someones eye. (Not mine, I saw the 1/1 engine and its family members so many times I was bored by the thing- Sorry Geoff). Regards, Tony D. At 11:22 AM 3/16/03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/16/2003 3:04:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: it also makes sense that the people responding to an Aster survey (i.e., current Aster owners, I suspect) would prefer what Aster has already made. It would be really interesting to see the same survey conducted by Roundhouse or Accucraft. It's interesting to hear that Aster knows who the current owners are. Neither Roundhouse nor Accucraft asked me to send in a 'product registration' card. Pete
Re: OT: Manufacturers and surveys
Hi Guys, Based on David,s feedback of the discussion he witnessed and confusing projections, suggests this input from manufacturers or conclusions and guesstimates of the needs of the customers, could one of be the prime reasons the market is flooded by the many oddball scales being offered, or which keep popping up. David's summary says it all, and does not bode well for future offerings. Tony D. At 05:47 PM 3/15/03 -0800, Dave Cole wrote: At 3:13 PM -0700 3/15/03, Vance Bass wrote: It would be really interesting to see the same survey conducted by Roundhouse or Accucraft. last week jon dekeles of largescale online gave a presentation at the bagrs annual meeting in which reveal the answers to some basic questions of five different large-scale scale makers (Aristo, Hartland, LGB, MTH and USA). the results were completely inconclusive, but what blew my mind was their individual projections of the size of the market. Harland, MTH and USA didn't answer the question; Aristo said more than 100,000 and LGB said less than 50,000. which leads me to a rash conclusion: much like screenwriter william goldman said about hollywood executives (nobody knows anything), i have this strong suspicion that none of the manufacturers knows anything. somebody comes up with an idea, they build it and if it sells, they build more. if it doesn't, they don't build more. no marketing. no focus groups. and when surveys are done, they get the results like 80 percent of current steamers prefer alcohol (five minutes at diamondhead would tell you that's way, way off). back somewhere in my dim past, i was in charge of surveys and public opinion polls for a large daily newspaper (i got the job because the previous occupant had run a survey whose results were headlined, survey says sheriff will lose by landslide; need i say that said sheriff won by a landslide?). because of my predecessor's mistake, i have invested way too much time in learning about survey work, statistics and polling. there are a number of survey standards that have to be followed to be able to make any generalizations from a survey. a bunch of people answering questions off a web site or off a mailing list (even one as august as this) is still just a straw poll and has no real meaning. if one of the manufacturers wants to commission a real survey, i'd be happy to provide the names of a half-dozen research firms that could do the job. /dmc -- ^^^ Dave Cole Gen'l Sup't: Grand Teton Everglades Steam Excursion Co. Pacifica, Calif. USA http://45mm.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTEND THE NATIONAL SUMMER STEAMUP IN SACRAMENTO, JULY 17-20, 2003 For more information, visit the web site at http://www.summersteamup.com ^^^
Re: Back to the Wall was Back to O rings
Hi Geoff, Sounds as if you are heading back home for a while?. Lucky you!. If so, and in the Cornwall-Devon area, looking for GWR Coaches (full size), you may want to try the Paignton to Kingswear (Dartmouth) Railway and return excursions which run hourly along the river Dart and Torbay coast. You can also get a river trip in a package ticket. They use the 2-6-2 GWR Tank engines and sometimes have visiting steamers. Also have the GWR rear observation cars and numerous GWR stock. Spend a few hours in Dartmouth and catch the train back as well. At Launceston, there is a also a 2' narrow gauge Tin Mine track, approx 4-5 miles?, long which we rode last year. It uses 0-4-0 open cab engines, and you may be able to ride the plate as I did. There is another GWR steam railway daily excursion from Buckfastliegh to Totnes which is also worth a visit, but probably not quite as good as the Dartmouth trip. However if heading north, the Seven Vally line and Dinting Railway have to be on your (our) list. When I visited Dinting two years ago, they had over 12 Castles, Manors, Kings etc, and lots of rolling stock. You can also visit the rebuild shops while in actual action. So many tracks and not enough time. Have a great trip. Regards, Tony D. I have enlisted! I've enlisted to test ride my nephew's 2' gauge railway on his farm in Cornwall. Also to play trains with his train mad 7 year old son. Steam a Basset Lowke (spelling?) of yesteryear perhaps. A much more important title than Brigadier--you will be able to call me ENGINE DRIVER!! Much better than being a pompous assed Brigadier. (No comment on how I might drive--please!) The closest I ever got to a Brigadier was when guarded the brig aboard the cruiser! No, I wasn't in it --but I lie a lot! I'll kiss the bridge (over the Thames) in Henley for you-- after I've crawled from the pub next to the church where I was christened which is next to the bridge, which is next to the police station! Hopefully, I'll see some old GWR coaches somewhere there!?? Geoff. At 04:31 PM 3/11/03 -0800, you wrote: you dodged GWR, you see, I'll be there in a month! Geoff, Don't tell me you've enlisted again! Haven't you done your share?! I know, you thought you'd have just one more go at Brigadier! Regards, Harry
Re: Back to the Wall was Back to O rings
Hi Peter, Very interesting. Have been by the hotel many times but had no idea about the decor. Will keep it in mind for next visit back to UK. Thanks, Tony D. At 03:13 PM 3/14/03 -0500, Peter Trounce wrote: If in Paignton/Torquay there is the Great Western Hotel. http://www.uk-hotel-accommodation.co.uk/England/Devon/Paignton/hotels/greatw esternhotelpaignton.cfm Mel and Cathy are model steam train nuts, with quite a collection in the bar the last time I was there. Peter Trounce. Toronto. - Original Message - From: Anthony Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Back to the Wall was Back to O rings Hi Geoff, Sounds as if you are heading back home for a while?. Lucky you!. If so, and in the Cornwall-Devon area, looking for GWR Coaches (full size), you may want to try the Paignton to Kingswear (Dartmouth) Railway and return excursions which run hourly along the river Dart and Torbay coast. You can also get a river trip in a package ticket. They use the 2-6-2 GWR Tank engines and sometimes have visiting steamers. Also have the GWR rear observation cars and numerous GWR stock. Spend a few hours in Dartmouth and catch the train back as well. At Launceston, there is a also a 2' narrow gauge Tin Mine track, approx 4-5 miles?, long which we rode last year. It uses 0-4-0 open cab engines, and you may be able to ride the plate as I did. There is another GWR steam railway daily excursion from Buckfastliegh to Totnes which is also worth a visit, but probably not quite as good as the Dartmouth trip. However if heading north, the Seven Vally line and Dinting Railway have to be on your (our) list. When I visited Dinting two years ago, they had over 12 Castles, Manors, Kings etc, and lots of rolling stock. You can also visit the rebuild shops while in actual action. So many tracks and not enough time. Have a great trip. Regards, Tony D.
Re: Back to the Wall was Back to O rings
Hi Geoff, We are pleased to aim!. Do not forget your digital camera and count your pixels!. Suggest you check out the G1MRA Steaming calender for local events. (Issue 196 arrived yesterday in the Bay Area). I see at least one that is listed to run regularly based somewhere Cornwall. They only list some contact phone numbers. Notice states Visitors welcome, beds and lodging available. Sounds like just what the steam doctor ordered. Have a safe trip. Regards, Tony D. At 09:34 PM 3/14/03 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Hi Tony and Peter, Thanks for all the tips for my trip.I'll note (print your Emails) and take them with me. My nepwhew is a train nut, so it looks promising! Lots of things to do! Thanks again! Geoff. Hi Geoff, Sounds as if you are heading back home for a while?. Lucky you!. If so, and in the Cornwall-Devon area, looking for GWR Coaches (full size), you may want to try the Paignton to Kingswear (Dartmouth) Railway and return excursions which run hourly along the river Dart and Torbay coast. You can also get a river trip in a package ticket. They use the 2-6-2 GWR Tank engines and sometimes have visiting steamers. Also have the GWR rear observation cars and numerous GWR stock. Spend a few hours in Dartmouth and catch the train back as well. At Launceston, there is a also a 2' narrow gauge Tin Mine track, approx 4-5 miles?, long which we rode last year. It uses 0-4-0 open cab engines, and you may be able to ride the plate as I did. There is another GWR steam railway daily excursion from Buckfastliegh to Totnes which is also worth a visit, but probably not quite as good as the Dartmouth trip. However if heading north, the Seven Vally line and Dinting Railway have to be on your (our) list. When I visited Dinting two years ago, they had over 12 Castles, Manors, Kings etc, and lots of rolling stock. You can also visit the rebuild shops while in actual action. So many tracks and not enough time. Have a great trip. Regards, Tony D. If in Paignton/Torquay there is the Great Western Hotel. http://www.uk-hotel-accommodation.co.uk/England/Devon/Paignton/hotels/greatw esternhotelpaignton.cfm Mel and Cathy are model steam train nuts, with quite a collection in the bar the last time I was there. Peter Trounce. Toronto.
Re: Back to the Wall was Back to O rings
Yup, Dem Hobbits can sure run fast after dem Duchess's though!. I also know now why the Redwoods can grow for hundreds of years.- Because it takes that long for a K27 to get to them before they can be chopped down!. (She'll be coming round the mountain when she comes!.) Remind you of anyone?. Toot, toot, Tony D. At 06:44 PM 3/14/03 -0800, Jeffrey Williams wrote: Funny how the names of all of the RR lines and towns Tony refers in JoE (Jolly old England) sound like they are lifted right out of Lord of the Rings!! Towns in Hobbitshire! On the other hand, Tony does have certain physical characteristics.. === Anthony Dixon wrote: Hi Geoff, Sounds as if you are heading back home for a while?. Lucky you!. If so, and in the Cornwall-Devon area, looking for GWR Coaches (full size), you may want to try the Paignton to Kingswear (Dartmouth) Railway and return excursions which run hourly along the river Dart and Torbay coast. You can also get a river trip in a package ticket. They use the 2-6-2 GWR Tank engines and sometimes have visiting steamers. Also have the GWR rear observation cars and numerous GWR stock. Spend a few hours in Dartmouth and catch the train back as well. At Launceston, there is a also a 2' narrow gauge Tin Mine track, approx 4-5 miles?, long which we rode last year. It uses 0-4-0 open cab engines, and you may be able to ride the plate as I did. There is another GWR steam railway daily excursion from Buckfastliegh to Totnes which is also worth a visit, but probably not quite as good as the Dartmouth trip. However if heading north, the Seven Vally line and Dinting Railway have to be on your (our) list. When I visited Dinting two years ago, they had over 12 Castles, Manors, Kings etc, and lots of rolling stock. You can also visit the rebuild shops while in actual action. So many tracks and not enough time. Have a great trip. Regards, Tony D. I have enlisted! I've enlisted to test ride my nephew's 2' gauge railway on his farm in Cornwall. Also to play trains with his train mad 7 year old son. Steam a Basset Lowke (spelling?) of yesteryear perhaps. A much more important title than Brigadier--you will be able to call me ENGINE DRIVER!! Much better than being a pompous assed Brigadier. (No comment on how I might drive--please!) The closest I ever got to a Brigadier was when guarded the brig aboard the cruiser! No, I wasn't in it --but I lie a lot! I'll kiss the bridge (over the Thames) in Henley for you-- after I've crawled from the pub next to the church where I was christened which is next to the bridge, which is next to the police station! Hopefully, I'll see some old GWR coaches somewhere there!?? Geoff. At 04:31 PM 3/11/03 -0800, you wrote: you dodged GWR, you see, I'll be there in a month! Geoff, Don't tell me you've enlisted again! Haven't you done your share?! I know, you thought you'd have just one more go at Brigadier! Regards, Harry
Re: Fwd: More Pictures from Dan's Steamup
Hi Jeff, Now I know why my paint blistered, and your transfers stayed in place!. 400mph and I can still keep up with it. What better way to exercise?. Happy Steaming, Regards, Tony D. At 07:31 PM 3/10/03 -0800, Jeffrey Williams wrote: The difference between the K-27 photos and the Duchess photos is scale: the K-27 was moving at a prototypical 15 mph, whereas the Tony Dixon-piloted Duchess was traveling at a scale (?) 400 mph! === Anthony Dixon wrote: Hi Geoff, Just pulling your chain!. LMS Photo's:- With all the focus and speed questions flying around, I am surprised no-one has asked why the Slide motion on the Duchess appears static, while the coupling rods are very blurred. I know one is working in the horizontal and the other in a circular pattern, and the slide motion could be at the end of its stroke. But it begs many theories from the experts. Whereas on the K27, all appears static!. Either a very fast shutter speed or a very slow engine! OOPS!. (Or the rod bearings on the Duchess have a lot of play). TTFN. Tony D. At 05:12 PM 3/10/03 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Hello, Tony et al,, Of course it was tongue in cheek and I wanted to see who would lecture me. naturally, you did! As Dave C wrote, if we had a [EMAIL PROTECTED] in a short time they would be talking about wicks!--and we are now discussing those wicks on this group, which I find very interesting (as I did the digital stuff actually!) Well, thanks for the lecture. BOO! Larry Buerer (who appears once in a while on this group) and myself were the digi photographers for our GR Society until our Editour Rick Platz acquired a digi camera. Now I always have excuses--how can you run a train with a beer glass in one hand and the bloody camera in the other?? Tell me! No wonder my eyebrows are scorched. On that, thanks for the lecture, the humour and-I forgot what the other was!!--Actuallyt I got very jealous of those LMS photos-- even if they were inspirational! All those photos were really great, LMS and all. Geoff Hi Geoff, Do I hear a little dry humor in your comments?. I agree with your concerns about this being a livesteam site, but respectfully suggest that livesteam interests and photograhy do go hand in hand. As without the great photographs supplied by our steaming associates which detail the many steamups, ideas and assembly links, relying on verbal descriptions leaves a lot to the imagination and maybe lead to many incorrect assumptions. After all a picture is maybe worth a thousand words if in focus, at the correct distance, correct exposure etc. and shows real atmosphere, (and facial wrinkles). Also, not everyone speaks the Queens English as descriptive and colourful as yourself (and I).!. i.e. Difficult to describe the outlines and differences between a Britannia, King George vs. Ruby, K27, and a Daylight without a photograph. But you could describe them as the Best of British vs. the rest, and assume a vivid imagination on the part of the reader!. Keep smiling, you may be on candid camera, again. Best Regards, Tony D. PS. Take a look at Mike Martins latest photographs taken at Dan,s steamup on 3-1-03 at www.panyo.com/steamup and you will see what I mean!.
Re: Fwd: More Pictures from Dan's Steamup
Hi Geoff, Do I hear a little dry humor in your comments?. I agree with your concerns about this being a livesteam site, but respectfully suggest that livesteam interests and photograhy do go hand in hand. As without the great photographs supplied by our steaming associates which detail the many steamups, ideas and assembly links, relying on verbal descriptions leaves a lot to the imagination and maybe lead to many incorrect assumptions. After all a picture is maybe worth a thousand words if in focus, at the correct distance, correct exposure etc. and shows real atmosphere, (and facial wrinkles). Also, not everyone speaks the Queens English as descriptive and colourful as yourself (and I).!. i.e. Difficult to describe the outlines and differences between a Britannia, King George vs. Ruby, K27, and a Daylight without a photograph. But you could describe them as the Best of British vs. the rest, and assume a vivid imagination on the part of the reader!. Keep smiling, you may be on candid camera, again. Best Regards, Tony D. PS. Take a look at Mike Martins latest photographs taken at Dan,s steamup on 3-1-03 at www.panyo.com/steamup and you will see what I mean!. At 12:42 PM 3/10/03 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Subject: More Pictures from Dan's Steamup Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:02:34 -0800 Thread-Topic: More Pictures from Dan's Steamup Thanks for the links to some fabulous pics. I am mighty pleased-- Good timing just as I was beginning to think that we had turned into an educational group for digital photography! Perhaps we need a separate group: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Geoff.
Re: Wicks
Hi Clark, Great idea and very good photograph. I would surmise you could adjust these at anytime without dismantling the burner from the engine, and while lit if accessable?. Interesting sideline:- I replaced the wicks on my U1 recently which uses two rectangular troughs approx 2.5 long x 3/8 wide and .750 deep. Each trough sits inside the firebox, one each side. Since building the engine, approx 4 years ago, I have always used 8 layers of the Aster Ceramic sheet 1mm thick sheet per trough. (Assuming I had to fill the trough). But re- checking the original instructions last week and found that Aster state to use only 4 sheets per side, which leaves a lot of empty trough. I decided to us 5 per side, ran the engine with these. The engine still pulled 7 cars really well as before, held pressure at same level, but seemed more docile and less touchy on the throttle. Any ideas?. Regards, Tony D. Gary: Here is a photo of my shroud system as used on my Mikado. http://home.earthlink.net/~clarklord/_images/shroud.jpg Clark Gary wrote: I appreciate the idea shared a few days ago about inserting a sleeve into the wick tube to enable rapid adjustment of wicks. I will make one as soon as I get some tubing the correct diameter. This will allow me to experiment much faster than cutting wicks would allow! I think there are plenty of photo sites/chat lists. This photo segway is just an interest that none of us had taken the time to look further than grump or throw up our mental hands when another bad photo was created by our best efforts. Gary - Running trains over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor
Re: Fwd: More Pictures from Dan's Steamup
Hi Geoff, Just pulling your chain!. LMS Photo's:- With all the focus and speed questions flying around, I am surprised no-one has asked why the Slide motion on the Duchess appears static, while the coupling rods are very blurred. I know one is working in the horizontal and the other in a circular pattern, and the slide motion could be at the end of its stroke. But it begs many theories from the experts. Whereas on the K27, all appears static!. Either a very fast shutter speed or a very slow engine! OOPS!. (Or the rod bearings on the Duchess have a lot of play). TTFN. Tony D. At 05:12 PM 3/10/03 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Hello, Tony et al,, Of course it was tongue in cheek and I wanted to see who would lecture me. naturally, you did! As Dave C wrote, if we had a [EMAIL PROTECTED] in a short time they would be talking about wicks!--and we are now discussing those wicks on this group, which I find very interesting (as I did the digital stuff actually!) Well, thanks for the lecture. BOO! Larry Buerer (who appears once in a while on this group) and myself were the digi photographers for our GR Society until our Editour Rick Platz acquired a digi camera. Now I always have excuses--how can you run a train with a beer glass in one hand and the bloody camera in the other?? Tell me! No wonder my eyebrows are scorched. On that, thanks for the lecture, the humour and-I forgot what the other was!!--Actuallyt I got very jealous of those LMS photos-- even if they were inspirational! All those photos were really great, LMS and all. Geoff Hi Geoff, Do I hear a little dry humor in your comments?. I agree with your concerns about this being a livesteam site, but respectfully suggest that livesteam interests and photograhy do go hand in hand. As without the great photographs supplied by our steaming associates which detail the many steamups, ideas and assembly links, relying on verbal descriptions leaves a lot to the imagination and maybe lead to many incorrect assumptions. After all a picture is maybe worth a thousand words if in focus, at the correct distance, correct exposure etc. and shows real atmosphere, (and facial wrinkles). Also, not everyone speaks the Queens English as descriptive and colourful as yourself (and I).!. i.e. Difficult to describe the outlines and differences between a Britannia, King George vs. Ruby, K27, and a Daylight without a photograph. But you could describe them as the Best of British vs. the rest, and assume a vivid imagination on the part of the reader!. Keep smiling, you may be on candid camera, again. Best Regards, Tony D. PS. Take a look at Mike Martins latest photographs taken at Dan,s steamup on 3-1-03 at www.panyo.com/steamup and you will see what I mean!.
Re: Any suggestion on a torch?
Hi Mike, Great photo's on your website taken at Dan,s steamup earlier this month. Thank you for shareing and publishing. Regards, Tony D. At 05:54 PM 3/8/03 -0800, Michael Martin wrote: Ken, Check with Sulphur Springs Steam Models on the availability of Sievert propane torches. I bought mine from them several years back and have found it to be master of any silver soldering job I have done. Mike http://www.panyo.com/steamups (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
Re: OT: steamup photography [was: (No subject)]
Hi Trent, Dave et al, As with high quality 35mm film cameras, Nikon etc. the end results are totally dependant on the quality of the lens in the enlarger being comparable to the original photographic lens. Therefore, I would be interested in knowing which colour printers and paper do you guys use for supporting the quality of these high definition photographs at 3-6 megapixels. i.e look brilliant on the screen, but not much use if final print quality is not comparable. I am talking in terms of 10 x 8 to 16 x 12 print sizes, not postcards. Please advise, Thanks guys, Tony D. At 10:57 PM 3/4/03 -0600, Trent Dowler wrote: Hello Dave, Thanks for the additional information. It gives me a lot more confidence in the 3 Megapixel market. I'm currently considering the Sony Mavica CD-400, but haven't convinced myself to make the purchase. I'll definitely take a closer look at the Fuji S602 now that I've seen actual photos from it. Thanks again for the information. Later, Trent Dave Cole wrote: *it's a fuji s602. *it has 6x optical zoom and macro capability (focuses down to three inches). *it has manual (as well as auto) shutter speed and aperture. *it has all the features of a six-megapixel, but is only captures three megapixels (this is the tradeoff). *santa paid around $500 for it (same features and six megapixels would be $1500-$2k).
Re: (No subject)
Hi Mike, Agree on the Macro detail. Do you plan on forwarding some of your photo,s taken at Dan,s meet also, as per your usual montage?. Thank you, Regards, Tony D. At 10:38 PM 3/3/03 -0800, Michael Martin wrote: Impressive macro work with that new camera Dave! Thanks for sharing. Mike
(No subject)
Hi Dan, Many thanks for your steamup event and hospitality of yourself and Rusty last Saturday. We had a great time, especially running on the new modified top loop. I will try to do more laps next time, so you can witness the event. I am sure everyone had some good running time and thoroughly enjoyed the event. Very Best Regards, Tony and Pat Dixon
Re: G1MRA Newsletter and Journal #196
Agree. Last issue in the Bay Area was #195, as per Clark's message. Regards, Tony D. At 06:08 PM 2/28/03 -0800, you wrote: Last issue in Southern Nevada is #195. Clark Lord Las Vegas Live Steamers Daniel R. Fuller wrote: I was just corresponding with Jim Curry about issue #196 which was mailed in England about 6-7 weeks ago. I have not received my issue. Has anyone in the US received their issue?
Re: Geoff wants a fire
Hi Geoff, Congratulations to your and your good lady. Very Best Wishes for many more anniversaries. (And more engines also, if your lady will allow!. Regards, T P.D. At 12:00 PM 2/25/03 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Yeah Gary, Promises, promises!! Shouldn't that be: Until trains and trestles do us part? Well it's our 58th tomorrow-so we're past all that stuff. We each do our own, and ne'er the twain shall meet!! Of course, I married an angel, but she settled for what she got! A kid with trains who never grows up! (God Forbid I should!!) Life is great if you don't weaken, but much better if you do! (copyright) So buy that loco! Wot the sh-t! weaken and prove the above!! Geoff. Ah well, I have already secured a promise from my understanding wife that the next home will likely be till death do us part home and that the yard will offord opportunity to make some incredible track work spanning gorges. Gary - Running trains over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor
Re: Max wheel RPM
Hi Mike, (and speed steamers) Input a little late, but after reviewing a video taken last week while running my 10mm Scale coal fired Duchess 4-6-2, a little fast on Dan Lieberwitz' large oval track. (Which I believe is approx. 1 scale mile?). And by re-running the tape several times, plus some stop watch timing, and confirmation counting of the clickity clacks of the coach wheels passing over rail joints. I did some calculations as follows:- Engine wheel revs approx. 50 in 15 secs = 200 rpm. +/- 5% Driver Wheel Dia = 2.660 = 8.356 Circum. = 557.1' Ft per min. = 6.33 MPH (actual) but more available. I could have timed the engine over x number of laps, but was not looking to measure the speed at the time, and video only shows partial laps. This engine weighs 24 lbs, empty and was pulling a 50lbs load of 7 coaches.(Really needed at least 7 more). Dia of cylinders is .585 x .875 stroke. (Per Jeff Williams' question). Boiler is 12.625 long x 2.250 Dia. Firegrate is 3 x 2 square. Tender carries approx same capacity as the boiler. The 1/1 Scale LMS Duchess was timed at 114MPH, on a regular service run and not a speed special, before the A4 Mallard made its 126mph record run. The 1/1 Duchess has 6' 9 dia drivers which gives 47.3 RPM at 114 MPH. Hope this helps in your quest!. Regards, Tony D. At 03:17 PM 2/17/03 -0600, Mike Eorgoff wrote: Is there a maximum wheel rpm used to calculate small scale steam boiler capacity. I seem to remember something around 350 RPM for prototypes.
Re: Size of Accucraft K-27?
Hi Dave, While Jeff was running his K27 on his small radius test track at home last week, we noticed that the center mounted coupling was actually positioned over the outside rail while running the curve. Making the effective width of the engine an additional 1 wider on the curves. So although 5.75 wide in static mode, it becomes 6.75 wide when running the outside curves. I suggest the cab, particularly the outside roof line, steps out even further, but we did not check that. Jeff also had to move some of Dan Lieberwitz' model village real estate while running last Saturday. No matter the track size, someone always shows up with a larger engine!. As you are finding out already. Regards, Tony D. At 08:55 AM 2/18/03 -0800, Dave Cole wrote: jeff: when harlan barr had his k-27 over here, the first thing he did was to run the tender around the track by hand, saying that it was the tender that had torn into elements of his heavily scenicked indoor layout. perhaps that's a dimension that daniel would like as well ... \dmc At 8:04 PM -0800 2/17/03, Jeffrey Williams wrote: Mine (#461) is 5.75 wide over the cylinders as well as the width of the pilot beam. The shades on the cab are a bit wider at just a hair under 6. The stack is the tallest piece at 7.875. It's possible that other road numbers vary from this, since the cylinders are different on the other road numbers. Accucraft claims 30 minimum radius. I've run mine on 48 radius and it works fine. The two center driving axles have blind flange drivers. The tender drawbar has alternate holes for the connection to spread the distance between loco and tender on tight radii. See http://www.accucraft.com/pg-87140.htm for their web page on the K-27 live steam. It's not linked to any of their other pages === Daniel R. Fuller wrote: I am building a track and due to space limitations, I have a clearance problem. I need to know the size of the Accucraft K-27. I saw them at Diamondhead and they are huge. Real railroads had to limit engines on certain tracks, and I may need to do the same. I think that the C-16 will be ok. What is the size of the loading gauge for the K-27? Just overall height above the rails and the total width is all I need. What is the minimum radius for the K-27? Dan Fuller Carrollton, Texas -- ^^^ Dave Cole Gen'l Sup't: Grand Teton Everglades Steam Excursion Co. Pacifica, Calif. USA http://45mm.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTEND THE NATIONAL SUMMER STEAMUP IN SACRAMENTO, JULY 17-20, 2003 For more information, visit the web site at http://www.summersteamup.com ^^^
Re: Where to use copper or fiber washer?
Hi Geoff, Interesting subject, good question and answers. I always keep a good stock of both types of washers ready for dismantling or repairing my Aster engines. Also interesting that Mike does not use any washers at all?. (Must have some very flat mating surfaces?). Banjo Bolts/Torque:- When I assembled my UI approx. 5 years ago, which was my first kit, I broke only one Banjo bolt out of the 25-30 or so needed in the kit when lightly torquing down. But when I assembled my King George two years later, I had approx 7-8 Banjo bolts snap off using the same/similar pressure. The replacement new bolts purchased through Jerry Hyde were all ok. The only thing I could surmise was that the U1 was a new un-opened kit, but still 7-9 years old, the replacement bolts were also probably new at 1-2 years old, whereas the King George kit was a new 12 + years older kit. I am thinking these older brass bolts became more brittle over time?. Have you, or anyone, experienced a similar problem?. Just curious, but a caution for anyone looking to build up an older kit. Annealing;- You anneal all copper washers in your kits first before assembly?. If so, how?. i.e. assume applying low heat with a small butane torch?. Best Regards, Tony D. At 11:15 AM 2/16/03 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote: I would suggest the copper for high heat or when the mating surfaces are very good. I have found that more torque is required for sealing copper gaskets. Fiber for other connections such as in the event there is cause to disconnect frequently-- for example, if the safety valve is removed for filling the boiler then a fiber gasket is good as it will seal without a lot of torque being required. Banjo bolts with thin walls can be damaged by over torquing so a fiber gasket is in order. I have noted both copper and fiber being provided by the Aster for safety valves. Incidentally, if the copper gasket is hard, it may be difficult to seal so annealing the gasket is in order. I write only from experience and my preference is fiber where possible! Geoff. Where is it best to use a copper washer, and where is it best to use a fiber washer? Mike Eorgoff near Chicago
Re: Where to use copper or fiber washer?
Hi Jeff, Thanks. Just checking which annealing process!. It has been a long time since I planished copper fruit bowls and plaques in metalwork class at Secondary School. Have to watch they do not spit back at you. Regards, Tony D. At 10:40 PM 2/16/03 -0800, Jeffrey Williams wrote: Annealing copper is easy - heat to visible red/orange, plunge in water - not like steel. === Anthony Dixon wrote: Hi Geoff, Interesting subject, good question and answers. I always keep a good stock of both types of washers ready for dismantling or repairing my Aster engines. Also interesting that Mike does not use any washers at all?. (Must have some very flat mating surfaces?). Banjo Bolts/Torque:- When I assembled my UI approx. 5 years ago, which was my first kit, I broke only one Banjo bolt out of the 25-30 or so needed in the kit when lightly torquing down. But when I assembled my King George two years later, I had approx 7-8 Banjo bolts snap off using the same/similar pressure. The replacement new bolts purchased through Jerry Hyde were all ok. The only thing I could surmise was that the U1 was a new un-opened kit, but still 7-9 years old, the replacement bolts were also probably new at 1-2 years old, whereas the King George kit was a new 12 + years older kit. I am thinking these older brass bolts became more brittle over time?. Have you, or anyone, experienced a similar problem?. Just curious, but a caution for anyone looking to build up an older kit. Annealing;- You anneal all copper washers in your kits first before assembly?. If so, how?. i.e. assume applying low heat with a small butane torch?. Best Regards, Tony D. At 11:15 AM 2/16/03 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote: I would suggest the copper for high heat or when the mating surfaces are very good. I have found that more torque is required for sealing copper gaskets. Fiber for other connections such as in the event there is cause to disconnect frequently-- for example, if the safety valve is removed for filling the boiler then a fiber gasket is good as it will seal without a lot of torque being required. Banjo bolts with thin walls can be damaged by over torquing so a fiber gasket is in order. I have noted both copper and fiber being provided by the Aster for safety valves. Incidentally, if the copper gasket is hard, it may be difficult to seal so annealing the gasket is in order. I write only from experience and my preference is fiber where possible! Geoff. Where is it best to use a copper washer, and where is it best to use a fiber washer? Mike Eorgoff near Chicago
Re: More Diamondhead Pictures
Hi Mike, Great Diamond Head Photo Gallery. Do not know about the Mallard picking up water, it looked more like pushing the sound barrier to me. Great shots, as usual!. When are you going to start selling bottled odors?. Many Thanks, Tony D. At 11:26 PM 2/13/03 -0800, Michael Martin wrote: All, I have recently posted about 50 of the pictures I took at Diamondhead. You can access them from my main page at http://www.panyo.com/steamups I hope you enjoy them, Mike
Re: Got my K-27!
Hi Gary, Good idea, but we are in the Bay Area, and Jeff's K-27 is only about 1/4 mile from my track. Perhaps he can run it in and debugg it locally, then we all hit the Oregon trail in the spring!. Regards, Tony D. At 08:45 PM 2/6/03 -0800, you wrote: If we can line up for K-27 tours, please drop by Terror Trestle any time! I am home 24 hours a day seven days a week! Gary - Running the new Aster shay over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor - Original Message - From: Anthony Dixon To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 2:40 PM Subject: Re: Got my K-27! Hi Jeffrey, So bring it over to my place and let us find out how much fence post and stucco I need to remove this weekend!. Enquiring minds want to know. Could even arrange some hot chili and wine to keep you warm, if the excitement is not enough. Best Regards, Tony D. At 09:52 PM 2/5/03 -0800, Jeffrey Williams wrote: I took delivery of my Accucraft K-27 this afternoon. First impression is how BIG it is!! I had some start-up prblems, though. The butane filler valve was blocked - same size as my C-16 so the C-16 got caniballized. One burner jet (the K-27 has two) was also blocked, had to clean that out as well. So by the time I got steam up it was dark and getting cold. Lots of nice steam plume action and great stack talk - much louder than my C-16. Finally shut it down after 45 minutes or so - still plenty of water left. Just too cold to stay outside any longer. A few minor things to work on: the relief valve goes at 50 psi, should be more like 70 psi. Also going to take a while to get comfortable carrying it around - no good way to pick it up, other than getting your fingers under the drivers. All the fine details along with the 24 lb weight makes it tricky to get hold of this monster.
Re: Got my K-27!
Hi Jeffrey, So bring it over to my place and let us find out how much fence post and stucco I need to remove this weekend!. Enquiring minds want to know. Could even arrange some hot chili and wine to keep you warm, if the excitement is not enough. Best Regards, Tony D. At 09:52 PM 2/5/03 -0800, Jeffrey Williams wrote: I took delivery of my Accucraft K-27 this afternoon. First impression is how BIG it is!! I had some start-up prblems, though. The butane filler valve was blocked - same size as my C-16 so the C-16 got caniballized. One burner jet (the K-27 has two) was also blocked, had to clean that out as well. So by the time I got steam up it was dark and getting cold. Lots of nice steam plume action and great stack talk - much louder than my C-16. Finally shut it down after 45 minutes or so - still plenty of water left. Just too cold to stay outside any longer. A few minor things to work on: the relief valve goes at 50 psi, should be more like 70 psi. Also going to take a while to get comfortable carrying it around - no good way to pick it up, other than getting your fingers under the drivers. All the fine details along with the 24 lb weight makes it tricky to get hold of this monster.
Re: Coal Size
Hi Mike, OK. I will stick my neck out and ask - Is this a serious question or tongue in cheek?! For the serious side info, I use anything between 1/8 pieces and 3/8. However if trying to use 3/8 to 1/2 pieces only, I find the fire is more difficult to light, keep lit, or it dies faster. The smaller grains have more combined surface area than large lumps. Therefore prefer the smaller grain mix 80% of the time, with balance of larger pieces and small mixed in. This is for a 10mm scale British prototype Britannia and Duchess plus some part time firing duties on a friends 1/32 nd U1. I know John Coughran prefers the larger pieces at 3/8 and 1/2 and does very well with these, but they do not work to well for me. Guess our techniques are slightly different. Hope this helps. Tony D. PS. The only dust I like to see is the fine grained ash residue with no clinkers!. At 11:18 AM 2/4/03 -0600, Mike Eorgoff wrote: What is the size range of coal pieces for good performance in Ga. 1 locomotives? The answer should be somewhere between dust and the size of the firehole opening. :-) Mike Eorgoff near Chicago
Re: super sonic locos
Hi Jim, So what is the record, engine, fuel, details etc.?. Enquiring minds would like to know. Thanks, Tony D. At 08:52 PM 2/1/03 +0800, Alison Jim Gregg wrote: Hi All. Been Done! Was done at the live steam gathering at Sindheim about 10 years ago. - they set a record. We raised it here in W. Australia about 6 months later as an advertising / promotional thing for the local Model Railway Show. Then the Germans knocked it off at Sindheim a few months later. The event is repeated each year at Sindheim. Jim Gregg. At 07:44 PM 1/31/03 -0800, you wrote: Hi Daniel, I agree. Some of us keep up on these things, some have better things to do!. And some still use good old US Snail mail, and do not trust the ozone mail. Personally, I am hoping someone is going to take up the challenge of creating some speed records for G1 Gas, Alcohol and Coal Burners. Be interesting who on each side of the pond decides to have a go first. However, if we wait for the Common Market and Congress Bureaucrats to define the rules, and lawyers the litigations, it will never happen. So why don't you start the ball rolling, before they catch on?. Regards, Tony D. At 10:07 PM 1/31/03 -0500, Daniel McGrath wrote: Shades of National Lampoon's Things that are Fast and Dangerous , a parody of Steam Engine and Locomotive Drag Racing I did not realize the mail could be so slow, that NatLamp issue must have been published in 1975? Good Gawd, are the mushrooms up... From: Tony [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: super sonic locos Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 13:25:34 +1030 At 14:08 31/01/03 -0800, you wrote: Get 20lbs + thrust and small enough to hold in one hand, or a C27 tender!. WOW! No kidding?! A model engine with muti-stage compressor and turbine fans? Where, who, let me see. But it is noisy. wrecks the first coach behind the loco, you will also need SUPER super elevation on 90' radius curves, brakes on the train. mind you I am surmising from my neighbours jet, he followed construction details in airbourne? an Oz magazine for model aircraft buffs. Bill my mentor/fellow nut case put a LPG fired Pulse jet on my layout a while ago.the long straight only served as a take off ramp...! Tony _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Re: Turbines and compressors
Wheels?. What wheels?. I think this is a vague hint, that I do not have a lathe yet?. Santa had a limited budget, and still has. Ho-ho-ho!. Regards, Tony D. At 09:49 AM 2/1/03 -0800, Steve Shyvers wrote: Tony, How are those wheels coming along that I asked for? I think that your rocket loco will need a fairly long wheel base for directional stability. I recommend a drag 'chute in addition to the disc brakes. You should also put a proper smoke box, stack and smoke generator on it so that you can trace its trajectory. Steve
Re: Diamondhead Drawbar Pulling Competition Results
Hi Phil, I think Jetex engines with 1/2oz of thrust have now been superceded for the last twenty+ years by the different size rocket high altitude rocket motors, with up to several ozs of thrust. I never saw a Jetex motor powered plane exceed 100'' vertical feet. Converesly you can now buy a real fully operational 100% model jet engine for less than $5,000. Get 20lbs + thrust and small enough to hold in one hand, or a C27 tender!. May need a 1/2 mile turning radius, but makes coal fired engines look really docile and environmentally friendly. Tony D. At 11:57 PM 1/29/03 -0500, Phil Paskos wrote: Are sanders allowed? How about Jetex assist? (do they still make those?) Sneak a motor drive in the tender? I knew there was a reason I wanted to go there. (VBG) Phil Diamondhead 2003 Drawbar Pull Results There were twenty-one locomotives entered in the drawbar-pulling contest held from 1:30 to 3:30 on Friday and Saturday afternoons. There were originally six classes but we found we needed to add two to make competition fairer. Classes were as follows: Class 1 - 4 drivered locomotives, Class 2 - 6 drivered locomotives, Class 3 - 8 drivered locomotives, Class 4 - Geared, Class 5 - Heavy Weight (K-27's and the like), Class 6 - Shays (thought there would be many Accu Shays to be entered hence the separate class), Class 0 - 2 drivered locomotives, and Class 1/2 - 1 driver locomotives. Class 0 and 1/2 were added as entries came in that didn't fit the first 6 classes. Class 6 was combined with Class 4 as only one Shay was entered. Here are the results: Class 1/2 1 Driver 1st Jim Sanders Steam Powered Tricycle negative 1 inch 2nd no entry 3rd no entry When the measuring device cable was attached it managed to move the tricycle backwards from the weight of the cable and was never able to overcome the horrific strain added by this. We need more competition in this category next year. Class 0 2 Drivers 1st John Clark Emelia 1 oz 2ndBill Shipp deWinton3/4 oz 3rd Peter FoleydeWinton5/8 oz There was another deWinton and a Grasshopper also entered. Class 1 4 Drivers 1st John Woodroofe Riesa 4 3/8 lbs 2nd John Woodroofe Samson 4 lbs even 3rd Chris Wolcott Ruby1 3/4 lb There were seven entries and the Cheddar locomotives proved to VERY powerful. There were several Rubys and Millies entered. Class 2 6 Drivers 1st Peter OelschlegerGungadin 4 3/8 Lbs 2ndChris Wolcott Lady Ann 1 3/4 lbs 3rd no entry Only two entries and the Class 1 winner pulled the same weight with two less drivers. The rest of you six drivered owners need to correct this next year. Class 3 8 Drivers 1st Steve HeseltonC-16 5 lbs even 2nd Arthur Cohen C-16 2 1/2 lbs 3rd no entry I guess you C-16 owners were caught napping or something as there was a lack of competition in this class. Class 4 Geared 1st Alvin Sadler WM Shay 5 3/4 lbs 2nd Jim Sanders MiCal Shay5 5/8 lbs 3rdJoel Neshkin Heisler 4 1/4 lbs I was disappointed in the lack of Shay entries. I had two I could have entered and won with but I know there would have been a cry of foul as the event organizer. Class 5 Heavy Weight No entries. I offered to make special times available for this class due to the difficulties of bringing entries to the line. It would have been interesting to compare DJB's and Accucraft's K-27's pulling power. Class 6 Shay Combined into the geared class and eliminated for next year due to a lack of interest. The next drawbar-pulling contest will be at the Midwest Steam-up this May in St. Louis. I will again have the electronic (accurate to .1 oz) track in operation there. Start tuning your locomotives now. To date no one has displayed any initiative to bend the rules like the NASCAR and Dragster people do. Seriously it's a lot of fun to see what your locomotive is capable of actually pulling and then comparing it to other models of similar configuration. Bruce Gathman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Diamondhead Drawbar Pulling Competition Results
Hi Jon, Yes, full Multi-stage, Compressors etc. As I recall, there is one manufactures in the UK, one in France and maybe one in the US. (or a licensed distributor). I will have to pull out some Aeromodeller mags to get you more details, including an article of manufacturing, materials used and servicing etc., and advise. I know they are being flown regularly in the UK pure jet events. I would think that by this time there must be a website somewhere also?. The initial intro prices were even lower at around $3,000 approx 5 years ago, but inflation caught up with them. Still have a problem understanding how they can be made for such a low price, even at $5,000. Now wish I had picked one up at the time. Would make one heck of a conversation piece at a steamup. Will keep you posted. Best Regards, Tony D. At 02:08 PM 1/31/03 -0800, Jonathan Bloom wrote: Converesly you can now buy a real fully operational 100% model jet engine for less than $5,000. Get 20lbs + thrust and small enough to hold in one hand, or a C27 tender!. WOW! No kidding?! A model engine with muti-stage compressor and turbine fans? Where, who, let me see.
Turbines and compressors
Hi Jon, Slightly off topic, but footnote takes care of that:- Guess my turbine and compressor information was out of date a little. Found several websites including Artes Jet UK, Turbo-Jet Technologies UK, Australia and Spain, and Gas Turbine builders Association. You can buy ready machined kits for Gas Turbine engines ranging from 2.5kg Thrust to 35kg Thrust. eg. 9.5kg kit at $1,850 (yes US$). 160,000RPM, Exhaust Temp 560C, Fuel 150 cc min. Length 140mm, Dia 180mm, WT 560 Grams. Alternate kits including Auto Start, Electronic Speed monitors and solid state controls cost goes up to $3,395. This one site has 5 models engines available. Also found Gas Turbine Engine Builders Association, with list of materials and kit suppliers. Obviously many more sites also. Now if we can get a kit built and ready for the West Coast Sacramento Steam up in July, being held at McClennen Air Force Base, which is very appropriate. I guess it would not be out of place, and with minimum risk of being kicked out!. Suggest fuel fumes will not be a problem, and sound will fit in very well, no-one will notice. We could rope in Steve Shyvers or Mike Martin to make up a very nice rolling truck, will need R/C and suggest Disc Brakes. Just another model rocket sledge railway. Do you think Gary Broader of Llagas Creek, would loan us 500yards of straight track. The access drive ways are very long at McClennen! Best Regards Tony D.
Re: super sonic locos
Hi Daniel, I agree. Some of us keep up on these things, some have better things to do!. And some still use good old US Snail mail, and do not trust the ozone mail. Personally, I am hoping someone is going to take up the challenge of creating some speed records for G1 Gas, Alcohol and Coal Burners. Be interesting who on each side of the pond decides to have a go first. However, if we wait for the Common Market and Congress Bureaucrats to define the rules, and lawyers the litigations, it will never happen. So why don't you start the ball rolling, before they catch on?. Regards, Tony D. At 10:07 PM 1/31/03 -0500, Daniel McGrath wrote: Shades of National Lampoon's Things that are Fast and Dangerous , a parody of Steam Engine and Locomotive Drag Racing I did not realize the mail could be so slow, that NatLamp issue must have been published in 1975? Good Gawd, are the mushrooms up... From: Tony [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: super sonic locos Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 13:25:34 +1030 At 14:08 31/01/03 -0800, you wrote: Get 20lbs + thrust and small enough to hold in one hand, or a C27 tender!. WOW! No kidding?! A model engine with muti-stage compressor and turbine fans? Where, who, let me see. But it is noisy. wrecks the first coach behind the loco, you will also need SUPER super elevation on 90' radius curves, brakes on the train. mind you I am surmising from my neighbours jet, he followed construction details in airbourne? an Oz magazine for model aircraft buffs. Bill my mentor/fellow nut case put a LPG fired Pulse jet on my layout a while ago.the long straight only served as a take off ramp...! Tony _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Re: Loco transport
Hi Geoff, I guess it still depends on your good looks, honesty and charm. Despite all the daily security bru-ha-ha. I have hand carried two large 10mm Scale steam engines back from the UK. One prior to Sept 11and one after Sept 11. (Last July). And subsequently FED Xd one of these engine to and from the UK again in Oct-November. In all instances, I went out of my way to explain to the ticket agents at check in, X-Ray inspection teams and carrier agents the full contents in detail. All of whom showed surprisingly little interest. I was even caught measuring the length of an overhead bin of a 747, with a roll up tape measure, by a flight attendant, (37 if interested), when boarding to collect my last engine (Duchess). I explained I was bringing a special present back for my wife, so she asked for one too!. At Heathrow, immediately adjacent to the United check in is a brand new Invision Super X Ray m/c (Made in Newark, Ca.), with a large sign stating mandatory large non-standard luggage inspection prior to boarding. I explained the steam engine contents of the 34 x 6x5 box and bag I was carrying, prior to loading it to the machine, and was told to wait to check it at the gate. I explained if there was going to be shipping problem, I needed to make alternate arrangements. But security staff, said no need to check it!. So at the pre-boarding gate, I explained the contents again, placed it on the x ray machine, and it was waved through without any 2nd interest. I should explain that I shipped the R/C Transmitter, lube oil and coal, inside the checked in luggage. But the RX and batteries were in situ inside the engine. As stated by someone earlier, the biggest problem was carefully lifting the 30+lbs of engine into the overhead. Especially for the short assed guys!. Also some of these overhead bin lids do not have a strait lift motion. The contents are actually rolled to the back of the bin as the lid is closed. So plenty of internal cushioning material inside the shipping box is required. I actually loaded my engine on its side, so that the closing roll would turn it vertical while in transit. Unloading is obviously the reverse, so trick is to prevent engine from re-rolling again. Make sure the tender is totally dry!. For Fed Xing this engine to the UK and back. I packed the engine in its normal foam lined carrying box with bag. Placed inside a re-enforced a 48 x 12 x 12 planter box from Orchard Supply, used a 3/4 thick plywood lid. This gave an approx cushioning area of approx 6 at each end (including transmitter) and 3 sides, top and bottom, which was filled with 3/4 polystyrene popcorn. I also added a rope carrying handle in each end plate, to assist lifting, and hopefully prevent standing on end!. Container and engine made two trips and no damage. Total weight was approx 50 lbs. An interesting side line in all this, is that Fed X Tennesse import office, have now rebilled my engine builder in the UK an additional 290 pounds for re-importing 60!kgs of iron and steel to me, after he repaired the paint work, and returned the engine in November. (Fed X have not contacted me). I understand most guys ship their larger engines direct to Jerry, and do not hand carry them?. Sorry to say, I cannot make it to Diamondhead despite hopes prior to Xmas. We were planning to take a slow cross country drive, but had to cancel out. So have a very good time for me, and send some photo,s. Best Regards, Tony D. Reference the newest airport security put into effect a week or so ago. Since then, has anyone on the list had experience carrying locos on board or packed in checked in baggage? Any comments would be helpful as I doubt that these federal security folks have had the proper training on steam engines and how important they are to us! Geoff.
Re: 360 Servo conversion was RE: R/C question
Hi Trent, Sounds good. If you want to go this route. I have seen gas flow meters which comprise a floating ball in a glass tube, which rises or falls according to flow pressure etc. This would seem an ideal method of activating the paint ball electronics eyeball sensor to activate the water feed pump as the ball drops with the water level?. Alternatively, any object floating on the water i.e. polystyrene cube or sheet could be used as the sensor level eyeball target. Or the floating plate itself could be hooked to a mechanical arm i.e. toilet flush water level control, with open/close contact switch to operate the servo pump or preferably to switch a direct drive water feed pump. Using the 6-12 volt fuel pumps for re-fueling model planes or cars. (I think this method may be easier to rig in confined spaces). Just a thought. Tony D. At 06:52 PM 12/15/02 -0600, Trent Dowler wrote: Hello All, This is not off subject, although it may seem so initially. Within the paintball sport community, there are several manufacturers of electronic hoppers- or devices that feed the paintballs to the paintball marker (gun). The electronics of the hopper is nothing more than a servo intended for R/C use, but modified to spin 360 degrees. Also present in the hopper is an electronic board and two photoelectric eyes attached. The eyes see the balls pass through the neck and when there is the lack of a ball, the board sends power to the servo which in turn spins an agitator to make the balls feed to the marker. It only comes on when needed. One of the older electronic hoppers that is now being passed over is the Viewloader 9 volt Revolution. Seems everyone has moved on to the Viewloader 12 volt model. The 9 volt model takes a regular 9 volt battery and the 12 volt uses two of the 9 volt batteries, which is apparently stepped down by way of the board to supply 12 volts to the servo. The 12 volt models are quite strong but I've not seen one of the 9 volt yet. If you have a paintball supplier nearby, they might have one of the older, used 9 volt models laying around that they would let you have for a few bucks. Just a guess, but I would think that $20 or so should buy a 9 volt model in working order, unless they've figured out how to upgrade them to the 12 volt. Although it's not the cheapest route to take, the 12 volt models run about $55 new from the mom and pop operators, or $70 at the local Wal-Mart. Something else that might save you a few bucks is that there is one of the boards that is called and X-Board which improves the response time between sensor and servo activation to almost instantly instead of 1/2 second. The added expense of the X-Board is not needed for boiler feed pump use. (IMHO) Being the creative bunch that we are, surely someone could figure out a way to use the photoelectric abilities to activate the servo driven feed pump as needed. There may be a more adaptable method of sensing and triggering the board. (???) If anyone experiments with the idea, *please* let us know what you find. Food for thought: www.viewloader.com has replacement parts, or just do a web search for paintball revolution hopper. eBay might also be a possible source for the older models. Later, Trent XXYZ wrote: This page describes the a conversion to 360 degree rotation. http://www.embeddedtronics.com/servo.html
Re: Fn3
Hi Greg, I guess we have to be more careful as to our description live steam scale. As fire, water and steam are three elements that cannot effectively be scaled. Reference cheap movies etc. I am surprised the IFORCREEC** commisars have not beat their drums on this one also as yet. Just Steamin!, Tony D. At 12:03 PM 12/12/02 +0800, Alison Jim Gregg wrote: Hi All. Answers interspersedAt 05:25 PM 12/11/02 -0800, you wrote: Hi Geoff, If you have any more 10mm stuff' you are giving away, then we need to talk!. Question - (Brit to Brit Monty Python humour, and not strictly politically correct). With both my Britannia and Duchess at 10mm, does running them on 45mm track qualify them as narrow gauge engines?. Yes according to the I.F.O.R.C.R.A.E.C.** - but NOT in the one true scale (WETI) **See end of Message Does .018 per foot difference warrant a total systems review and teardown?. I have seen commercial 45mm rail sections supplied with a .035 - .040 variation in rail gauge tolerance, which by default eats up 50% of the 3/8 vs. 10mm variance. YES see the I.F.O.R.C.R.A.E.C.** Manifesto Do I need a coal sieve to separate the 3/8 coal from the 10mm grains!!!? Yes - see I.F.O.R.C.R.A.E.C.** above Will a 3/8 scale engine run ok on 10mm scale coal!!!? Not if it is a true scale engine - see the subsection entitled Repeal of the Laws of Physics in the I.F.O.R.C.R.A.E.C.** Manifesto. Is it ok to drive my engines on the left hand side while in the US?. (Think about this one). Etc, Etc, Etc, No R/H bias only. TTFN. Regards, Tony D. ** I.F.O.R.C.R.A.E.C. is the International Federation Of Rivet Counters Regulatory And Enforcement Commission . (aka Commissar.). Jim Gregg. At 09:42 AM 12/11/02 -0800, you wrote: Sir Art and Terry, Well, being a simple old fellow, I have solved the problems of all these confounded scales by settling for 1/32 scale-- for both the locos and the track. (Please, no nit-picking telling me that 45mm is not EGGSAXTLY 1/32 of 4' 8-1/2) No complications as long as I stay away from 10mm. I sold my 10mm stuff real cheap! Of course as far as some steam NG stuff and my sparkies are concerned--that's a different story! There is no escape really, is there? Just think how many times Marc has tried to explain these scales in GRs, but it never seems to get through. I say, if you like it, buy it! To scale or not to scale? that is the question. The answer lies in your satisfaction . Geoff. Here here Art! snip So for #1 Gauge track, what scale should #24 be? 7/8n2 presumably! It's a forlorn bleat I am sure, but can't we give up these crazy US Brit nomenclatures? For any miniature all you need to know is the scale ratio from the prototype (correct or incorrect as the manufacturer prefers) the track gauge in mm, e.g. 20.3/45 Art Walker
Re: PRELIM: IEW RY Steamups 2003
Hi Steve, Tell me about it!. But we have to acknowledge these challenges. Every time I have steam up I always prepare by keeping my workshop track building tools handy. Most steam ups I have, show that I will have to cut another clearance notch in my property dividing fence post, trim the bushes, line side clearances etc. Because someone shows up with the latest largest 45mm scale engine or stock they can find. Although I do not really mind Providing these same guys are still around to replace the fence when it collapses!. I am coming to the conclusion that even if the track and clearances were built to accommodate a 3/4 scale engine on 3 1/2 track. Some G1 guy somewhere would take this as a challenge to beat the system, and show up with a 8 wide x 12 high engine running on 45mm. Some of the locals already know how to avoid the garden Tap (Faucet) projecting from the side of my house by taking the inner loop line!. However, I would be very disappointed if everyone showed up with mini Rubies also. Tony D. At 08:30 AM 12/13/02 -0500, steve boylan wrote: Jim, You wrote: There are no reasonable clearance restrictions, so anything that fits on 45mm track is ok regardless of scale. The track is a combination of Llagas Creek code 215 and Sunset Valley code 250. You realize, of course, that a paragraph like that would be taken as a challenge to SOME on this list to come up with something really outrageous that still runs on 45mm track. Let's see ... can I rig bogies under my van ... ? - - Steve
Re: Steam oil
Hi Geoff, In view of the 300 mile trip. And I think these Railroads my be closed already for the winter season. However, next summer, you could make a vacation out of visiting these working Shays, or at the Bay Area live Steamup at Sacremento in July 2003. And you are welcome to use my place in the Bay Area as central base. Or you could make a round trip, and stop over at my place, for a rest and run your Scotsman. See Ya, Tony D. At 09:39 AM 12/10/02 -0800, you wrote: Tony lad, Yes, but in Northern northern northern Ca, we are about 300 miles north of any of those spots. We have no geared locos that operate except at Fort Humboldt. I did drive a heisler in a restricted Simpson yard. --about 100ft as that was the only available track--there were no brakes. so one used the johnson bar!! Geoff. Hi Geoffrey, Is there a problem finding 1;1 working Shays and other narrow gauge/gage logging engines in mid California?. I know of at least three working operational narrow gauge Shays, within easy travelling distance of the Bay Area. All of which run to daily summer schedules. (Not just static museum pieces). e.g. Sugar Pine Railroad, southern border of Yosemite. 4-5 hour drive from Bay Area Jamestown RailRoad, west of Yosemite border. 3-4 hour drive from Bay Area. (Static Also) Roaring Camp Park RailRoad, near Santa Cruz, south of San Jose. 45-60 mins from San Jose. (Has both a Shay and Climax). I would surmise that a new VW Bug could achieve these distances in the given time!. I know my Winnebago can (but even when running, is far from opulent!). See Ya. Tony D. JamestownAt 05:55 PM 12/9/02 -0800, Dave Cole wrote: At 4:55 PM -0800 12/9/02, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Let this be the finish--right Dave?? right. allow me to say: on this list, only people from australia can call it oz. all others must use the term antipodes (which i've always loved). My local steam friends run all NG stuff--including shays and heislers, just as the local timber industries used yesteryear. We have a few old prototype ones lying around here and there. None running- if someone says there are some running, I would clarify that I am writing about rural Northwest Northern California, 100 miles below the Oregon border.--not the opulent Bay area! actually, i know of no narrow gauge full-scale live steam in the bay area -- niles canyon is standard gauge, as is the golden gate railroad museum. the narrow gauge stuff is down in santa cruz county, which is almost as far away as northwest northern california. but doesn't the northern counties logging interpretive association have an engine that is run at fort humboldt? i can't find a specific reference to a specific engine, but it appears that in may through september, the group had something it called steam-ups where train rides will be given. maybe the steam that gets up is on a stationary engine and the rides are on something of a gasoline or diesel variety. \dmc -- ^^^ Dave Cole Gen'l Sup't: Grand Teton Everglades Steam Excursion Co. Pacifica, Calif. USA http://45mm.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ^^^
Re: Video to Digital format
Hi Jeff, I would be interested in taking you up on your offer, using your sons help. Preferably using my PC (not Mac) if possible. Another option, is that when I have found my video tape in question, showing Barry Harpers R/C installation in his Aster Lion. Then I could give it to you for your son to download on his Mac for publishing it on the sslivesteam web?. Thanks for the offer. Will advise, Best Regards, Tony D. I will track the tape down and advise.At 06:27 PM 12/10/02 -0800, you wrote: Tony, I have three Mac's in my household and my son Matthew is adept at all things digital when it comes to Macs. Maybe he can help. Jeff == Anthony Dixon wrote: Hi Gary, I do not know anyone in my arena or any buddies who own a Mac. I use a generic Dell PC.myself. I can plug my Digital camcorder into it to play back video,s. But not familiar with the process/equipment for downloading these to the web. I need to look into this for times like these!. But don't hold your breath. If I can get the process and equipment to set up you will the first to know. Regards, Tony D. At 06:06 PM 12/6/02 -0800, Gary wrote: Tony D. If you have a friend with a Macintosh computer he will have the ability to make the movie into a digital feed for sending via e-mail or posting to the web. Macs are sold with this sort of capability. I have a PC and it requires extra software and hardware to do the same thing. Gary - Eugene, Oregon - Original Message - From: Anthony Dixon To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:17 AM Subject: Re: Lion Cab Hi Gary, I saw this engine once, when Barry ran it at the Sacremento steamup last year, July 2001. I took a brief 30sec video, before the tape ran out. Sorry to say, I am not familiar with knowing how to download this to the web!. I believe Mike Martin took many digital still photo's as he normally does at these events in the Bay Area. So maybe Mike has some in his archives?. There was also an event report published in Steam in the Garden, approx 2 months after the 2001 event, which I thought carried a photo also. I do not know if Barry ran at Diamondhead with this engine in 2001 or 2002. If so, someone may have photo's from here also. Assumptions would be to try and contact Barry direct. I have none of his personal details. Alternatively, maybe Mike Martin will step forward and advise if he has any of Barry's R/C cab details. (Or other readers, have more visible info). Regards, Tony D.
Re: Fn3
Hi Geoff, If you have any more 10mm stuff' you are giving away, then we need to talk!. Question - (Brit to Brit Monty Python humour, and not strictly politically correct). With both my Britannia and Duchess at 10mm, does running them on 45mm track qualify them as narrow gauge engines?. Does .018 per foot difference warrant a total systems review and teardown?. I have seen commercial 45mm rail sections supplied with a .035 - .040 variation in rail gauge tolerance, which by default eats up 50% of the 3/8 vs. 10mm variance. Do I need a coal sieve to separate the 3/8 coal from the 10mm grains!!!? Will a 3/8 scale engine run ok on 10mm scale coal!!!? Is it ok to drive my engines on the left hand side while in the US?. (Think about this one). Etc, Etc, Etc, TTFN. Regards, Tony D. At 09:42 AM 12/11/02 -0800, you wrote: Sir Art and Terry, Well, being a simple old fellow, I have solved the problems of all these confounded scales by settling for 1/32 scale-- for both the locos and the track. (Please, no nit-picking telling me that 45mm is not EGGSAXTLY 1/32 of 4' 8-1/2) No complications as long as I stay away from 10mm. I sold my 10mm stuff real cheap! Of course as far as some steam NG stuff and my sparkies are concerned--that's a different story! There is no escape really, is there? Just think how many times Marc has tried to explain these scales in GRs, but it never seems to get through. I say, if you like it, buy it! To scale or not to scale? that is the question. The answer lies in your satisfaction . Geoff. Here here Art! snip So for #1 Gauge track, what scale should #24 be? 7/8n2 presumably! It's a forlorn bleat I am sure, but can't we give up these crazy US Brit nomenclatures? For any miniature all you need to know is the scale ratio from the prototype (correct or incorrect as the manufacturer prefers) the track gauge in mm, e.g. 20.3/45 Art Walker
Re: Video to Digital format
Hi Gary, I do not know anyone in my arena or any buddies who own a Mac. I use a generic Dell PC.myself. I can plug my Digital camcorder into it to play back video,s. But not familiar with the process/equipment for downloading these to the web. I need to look into this for times like these!. But don't hold your breath. If I can get the process and equipment to set up you will the first to know. Regards, Tony D. At 06:06 PM 12/6/02 -0800, Gary wrote: Tony D. If you have a friend with a Macintosh computer he will have the ability to make the movie into a digital feed for sending via e-mail or posting to the web. Macs are sold with this sort of capability. I have a PC and it requires extra software and hardware to do the same thing. Gary - Eugene, Oregon - Original Message - From: Anthony Dixon To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:17 AM Subject: Re: Lion Cab Hi Gary, I saw this engine once, when Barry ran it at the Sacremento steamup last year, July 2001. I took a brief 30sec video, before the tape ran out. Sorry to say, I am not familiar with knowing how to download this to the web!. I believe Mike Martin took many digital still photo's as he normally does at these events in the Bay Area. So maybe Mike has some in his archives?. There was also an event report published in Steam in the Garden, approx 2 months after the 2001 event, which I thought carried a photo also. I do not know if Barry ran at Diamondhead with this engine in 2001 or 2002. If so, someone may have photo's from here also. Assumptions would be to try and contact Barry direct. I have none of his personal details. Alternatively, maybe Mike Martin will step forward and advise if he has any of Barry's R/C cab details. (Or other readers, have more visible info). Regards, Tony D.
Re: Steam oil
Hi Geoffrey, Is there a problem finding 1;1 working Shays and other narrow gauge/gage logging engines in mid California?. I know of at least three working operational narrow gauge Shays, within easy travelling distance of the Bay Area. All of which run to daily summer schedules. (Not just static museum pieces). e.g. Sugar Pine Railroad, southern border of Yosemite. 4-5 hour drive from Bay Area Jamestown RailRoad, west of Yosemite border. 3-4 hour drive from Bay Area. (Static Also) Roaring Camp Park RailRoad, near Santa Cruz, south of San Jose. 45-60 mins from San Jose. (Has both a Shay and Climax). I would surmise that a new VW Bug could achieve these distances in the given time!. I know my Winnebago can (but even when running, is far from opulent!). See Ya. Tony D. JamestownAt 05:55 PM 12/9/02 -0800, Dave Cole wrote: At 4:55 PM -0800 12/9/02, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Let this be the finish--right Dave?? right. allow me to say: on this list, only people from australia can call it oz. all others must use the term antipodes (which i've always loved). My local steam friends run all NG stuff--including shays and heislers, just as the local timber industries used yesteryear. We have a few old prototype ones lying around here and there. None running- if someone says there are some running, I would clarify that I am writing about rural Northwest Northern California, 100 miles below the Oregon border.--not the opulent Bay area! actually, i know of no narrow gauge full-scale live steam in the bay area -- niles canyon is standard gauge, as is the golden gate railroad museum. the narrow gauge stuff is down in santa cruz county, which is almost as far away as northwest northern california. but doesn't the northern counties logging interpretive association have an engine that is run at fort humboldt? i can't find a specific reference to a specific engine, but it appears that in may through september, the group had something it called steam-ups where train rides will be given. maybe the steam that gets up is on a stationary engine and the rides are on something of a gasoline or diesel variety. \dmc -- ^^^ Dave Cole Gen'l Sup't: Grand Teton Everglades Steam Excursion Co. Pacifica, Calif. USA http://45mm.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ^^^
Re: Lion Cab
Hi Gary, I saw this engine once, when Barry ran it at the Sacremento steamup last year, July 2001. I took a brief 30sec video, before the tape ran out. Sorry to say, I am not familiar with knowing how to download this to the web!. I believe Mike Martin took many digital still photo's as he normally does at these events in the Bay Area. So maybe Mike has some in his archives?. There was also an event report published in Steam in the Garden, approx 2 months after the 2001 event, which I thought carried a photo also. I do not know if Barry ran at Diamondhead with this engine in 2001 or 2002. If so, someone may have photo's from here also. Assumptions would be to try and contact Barry direct. I have none of his personal details. Alternatively, maybe Mike Martin will step forward and advise if he has any of Barry's R/C cab details. (Or other readers, have more visible info). Regards, Tony D. At 07:16 PM 12/5/02 -0800, Gary wrote: Tony, ya got me curious something fierce! Where can we find pictures of Barry Harper's R/C install in the Lion Cab? Gary - chilling in Eugene, Oregon http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor
RE: R/C at less than 180 degrees
Hi Steve, Visited the Flysteam website and found it fascinating. I had heard references, but not seen specifics till now. Did not find any details as to actual typical flight duration times achieved. But the homework and details which went into the development and ongoing progress was very good. Would be worth following up and buying, or making such an engine from his plans, just for bench demo's. Makes R/Cing a single throttle on a rail live steamer look like kindergarten engineering. 4-4-0 Project Engine - Can we presume you would have this engine for show and tell at Dan's next Sunday?. Or too early yet?. Whenever, I know it will be to your usual workmanship standards. Really pleased you did not mimick the Roman Candles. When are you going to take the coal burner plunge?. See Ya, Regards, Tony D. Been following the servo and linkage discussions. Because you have had lots of previous experience with R/C airplanes, and now small live steam locos, have you ever looked at the http://www.flysteam.co.uk/ website? Now, to get back on topic. Thank you for the kind words about my chain-driven teakettles. I did get my latest 4-2-0 project in steam on Thanksgiving day. There's a few bugs to work out yet, but I will report that the chicken-feeder fuel supply worked, the boiler produced the right amount of steam, and the whole package never came close to simulating a roman candle. (Always a concern with a wooden-framed loco.) Steve
Re: R/C question
with full throttle R/C?. 3rd Thought:- Running a Big Boy light with a single load car representing 100 actual cars is even worse!. Still having Fun, Best Regards, Tony D. 4/02 -0800, M Paterson wrote: Tony I hope that this is not a repeat as my first message dropped before completed. Can you provide the make and model of the servo that provides 180 degree rotation? Every servo I have seen has a much smaller throw and I need the extra movement to operate the throttle on both my O'Connor modified FrankS and the Ruby. Regards Mike Paterson --- Anthony Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Walt, Agree R/Cing engines needs customized design detailing, per engine type. Some easy, some a challenge. Especially the larger but smaller scale engines (1/32) with little excess cab room. I was originally replying in broad terms back to Geoff regarding R/Controlling the throttle and blower on my U1, with servos, etc in the tender. But to clarify a little, the hook up methods I originally tried were as follows:- Flexible bowden cable- 1st Choice;- Was ok for taking up the variances between a full right and full left curves on the track. But the cable wound up to the extent all the servo torque movement was absorbed in the flex, before the throttle even turned at all. Also could not fully close the throttle, or open a closed throttle, as the servo torque was absorbed in the cable. (I did try several sizes). The stiffer cables, also stiffened the movement between engine and tender, causing derailing. The lighter cables wound up. Rigid wire with female universal joint at one end:- Needed a slot 5/8 along c/line to ensure total swing movement, and servo at 40 in oz did not have enough torque to fully close throttle. (I was twisting along the center line of the servo shaft and throttle and with only 1/4 max leverage. Not with additional lever action). Also tried the sliding tube method, to account for swing movement, in conjunction with a 1 long L shaped lever into servo arm to increase torque. Thought I may need full rotation, so I Increased effective rotation and torque by fastening a 60 tooth x 1 dia gear wheel quadrant (cut in half), to the servo, and drove a smaller 20 tooth gear on the end of an R/C wheels universal coupling drive rod. Plus a modified universal female socket at the throttle. i.e. 1: 3 ratio. As the servo only rotated 180 degr, this still gave 1 1/2 turns on the throttle shaft, with enough torque to open a closed throttle, and vice versa. But still needed a separate drive for the blower. Incidentally, later tests showed that when running under hand control and warmed up, the engine needs less than 1/2 turn between stop and very fast. And is typically run at less than 1/8 turn on the throttle. So any slop in the linkage controls, quickly defeats the purpose of R/C. Which is why I went the gear drive route. Johnson Bar- Controlling this from the tender was also going to be another sliding rods problem. Finally decided I did not want three + servos, and numerous linkages between tender and engine. So found the smallest physical servos which would fit in the cab. Increased effective leverage with longer moment arms, and finished up with one servo pushing and pulling the throttle and blower in unison. I like to keep a little blower 1/32 turn on when running, or for unscheduled stops, as this minimizes any chance of the flames blowing back from under the firebox. This is adjustable by fine tuning the control clevis on threaded push rods I plan on removing the rotating screw rod system for the Johnson bar, and fit a push/pull quadrant. Again with one servo in the cab. Regards, Tony D. The Some thoughts and observations on R/C for alcoholicser alky fired loco's! The Aster Mikado is easy to R/C. I made a little fitting to go over the existing handle and connected via turnbuckle to the servo mounted with a strip of blackened copper to the cab floor I have found I rarely need to adjust the blower and have not put a servo on it yet. From an operational standpoint, Mr. Lunkenheimer has decreed that road engines, i.e., K-4, Hudson, Mikado, etc. DO NOT GO IN REVERSE! A yard switcher brings their consist to them and they main line it from there. Geoff's observation about the degree of bending for tender mounted controls can be overcome with a flexible piece such as piano wire or the spring core material from old speedometer or choke cables (if you are so inclined, you can buy a new replacement cable at K-mart, etc.), etc. This works especially well if you are controlling the round handle on many aster throttles. A fork at the end of the wire or spring goes through
Re: R/C question
Hi Mike, Sounds as if you are looking to increase effective control from the limited servo movement?. I have an assortment of various servo,s, and have used both the following servo,s for steam engine R/C. For direct or indirect push pull, or rotary controls. Futaba S3102 Metal Geared @ 51 in oz 1.1HT x 1.17 L. x .51 W. with 190degr movement. Hitec FMS S90 Nylon Geared @ 30? in oz. 1 H X 1.17 L x .8 W. with 180degr. movement. I also have a Roundhouse Elsa (Similar to Katie), which was supplied with R/C controls. This uses Hitec HS 81 Servo,s for throttle and Johnson bar. These also have 180degr. movement. Servo uses a .5 long arm = 1 total stop to stop travel driving to a .9 long arm at the throttle. The linkage arm is positioned in the outermost hole of both crank arms. Typically I run the Elsa at approx 30% open throttle, or 30% of full movement available. Which is more than sufficient for scale speed. I am not very familiar with the Frank S controls and cab space. (It has been several months since our web mom visited one of my steamups with his Frank?- Oops!). But also know he was busy building his own track!. However if you are looking for even more movement at the throttle, etc., there are several methods you can use, as follows:- e.g. For direct drive- Extend the generic .5 long servo arm to .75, (or more), which would increase direct drive throttle movement from 1 total swing to 1.5. This is probably the simplest method Alternatively, for indirect drive add an intermediate pivot bellcrank with a 1''? (or more) long arm, between the servo and the throttle, if you have room for a stable pivot platform. Then drive from outer hole on the servo arm to inner hole of bellcrank arm. Add a second link arm from outer hole of bellcrank to throttle. The increase in total arm movement would be the original servo arm length max-min swing plus the distance (total swing) between the inner and outer holes of the bellcrank. Third option would be quadrant gear and pinion rotary drive. But I think this route may not be needed for the Frank. Effective Throttle Required:- Personnal Thoughts. I suggest that most engines drivers think they must have the absolute maximum amount of R/C throttle range as possible, at all times for running, especially starting from cold, or with a heavy load. When in fact a wide open throttle and max startup steam pressure, results in drastic wheel spin, and is bad driving!. Factualy, when engines are warmed up and with constant steam pressure. They will re-start, run easily and fast even at a 20-40%? throttle opening. So the initial 1+ cold start servo throttle movements, have to be severely cut back to approx. 25% for constant controllable running. In conjunction with setting the Johnson bar % cut-off, if fitted. Therefore designing a manual overide, which initially allows large hand throttle movements at startup, but allows lower running throttle R/C control is a better option, than trying to increase servo movement for excessive full range controls, which may only be needed for 5-10% of the running time?. This manual servo overide can be achieved using the same simple spring loaded push-pull rod mechanism as used for R/C cars. i.e. for hand blipping the throttle of high reving engines, prior to race starts. Or adjusting clutch/brake mechanisms. Using a custom tweeked spring loaded overide to give full cold start throttle assistance has the advantage of also being a safety mechanism in case of loss of R/C signal during running. i.e. in preventing the engine running at over 40%? throttle in case of a signal loss. 2nd Thought- Running Light with R/C:- How many steamups have you attended where the majority of steamers, are content to run their engines 'light with absolutely no load at all, on 10lbs pressure, 1/4 throttle for hours. Typically some are free running, but many still use R/C under these conditions also. Probably running down the batteries faster than the water. Why?. Could it be some designs cannot pull the skin of a rice pudding, even with full throttle R/C?. 3rd Thought:- Running a Big Boy light with a single load car representing 100 actual cars is even worse!. Still having Fun, Best Regards, Tony D. 4/02 -0800, M Paterson wrote: Tony I hope that this is not a repeat as my first message dropped before completed. Can you provide the make and model of the servo that provides 180 degree rotation? Every servo I have seen has a much smaller throw and I need the extra movement to operate the throttle on both my O'Connor modified FrankS and the Ruby. Regards Mike Paterson --- Anthony Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Walt, Agree R/Cing engines needs customized design detailing, per engine type. Some easy, some a challenge. Especially the larger but smaller scale engines (1/32) with little excess cab room
Re: R/C question
Hi Geoff, This was the direction I was heading for R/Cing my U1 232.i.e. open one, close the other, with one servo. Simple, once you have defined the servo rod lengths and positions on servo driver arm. Originally I tried driving these from the tender with R/C car universal joints. OK when running in straight line, but needed a sliding rod and tube system to take up the variations on drive lengths when negotiating curves. i.e. over 3/4 between full left and full right. Especially the tight rads. So placed servo in cab on right hand side with short, stiff drive rods to underside of throttle/blower handles. Eventually fried the servo wiring, after 12 months, with an alcohol flashback. But servo was still ok. Worked well under static tests on the treadmill, but not tried it under a real load yet. Our Japanese friend Mr. Tanaka?, told me he puts the servo's under the side valances. But this seems to need long control rods, bent a various angles to hook up to throttle etc. At this point they are too flexible, and wippy. Especially when opening up a closed throttle with a hot engine i.e. to overcome initial closed friction. On my U1 1/4 turn of throttle represents full stop or very high speed, so running at 1/16 to 1/8 open is the controllable norm, even with 40% cut-off and 8 coaches. One problem I have seen is the inability of the servo to actually have enough torque to fully close the throttle, and give the final fully closed tweek. I have seen photographs of a U1 with 5 servo,s all driving from the tender. Seems to work, but does not look good. I do not like visible R/C Controls. Prefer them well hidden or disguised. Much more difficult when adding on to a ready built loco, without a major tear down. Especially a U1, Daylight or KGV ETC. Next time, I will add R/C as the kit is built. Duchess has only two servo's controlling forward, reverse, cut-off, blower and cylinder blow downs for pressure release start up. Servo,s are buried between the frames. Also has hand throttle over-ride to pre-set for load. One servo does have not push rods, but uses rotating discs to open and close the steam ports. The 2nd has a bell crank for operating the Johnson bar. Roundhouse and Rubies etc. no real problems, as controls are much more accessable, larger scale and open. Regards, Tony D. At 11:49 AM 11/26/02 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Barry Harper of Diamondhead fame R.Cs his alky locos--no problem. I forget how he controls the blower--but one servo could open the blower and close the regulator and vice versa.--this may be what he does. Those 1/32 cabs are small. Geoff. --Gary - chilling in Eugene, Oregon http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthorWhy do so many say it is impossible to R/C an alcohol fired loco? My logic says if a servo is available for throttle, blower, and reversing lever then the loco should be R/C controllable. What am I overlooking?
RE: Soldering and welding require practice.
Hi Mike, I agree about a separate tuition meet for the Bay Area locals, perhaps on a weekend soon and not wait till the steamup. (Count me in). Although a seminar at the steamup also would have a lot of interest there too. Incidentally there is a very good article in the August 2002 issue of Live Steam Magazine which describes the silver soldering process, and is very descriptive with photo,s and illustrations on building a boiler for a Shay. Regardless of the model, and size, the process's and procedures are very well described, one of the best I have seen, and worth the cost of the magazine. Regards, Tony D. At 11:05 PM 11/16/02 -0800, M Paterson wrote: Please include me in the training program. Mike --- Dave Cole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 6:28 AM -0800 11/15/02, Shyvers, Steve wrote: Great idea. I would like the chance to learn from seeing the process done correctly with the recommended tools. Although I would recommend to make it a stand-alone event independent of a steamup in order to keep the focus on the brazing activities. this is a great idea and i, too, would want to come, not to build anything but just to get an idea of the correct tools and techniques. \dmc -- ^^^ Dave Cole Gen'l Sup't: Grand Teton Everglades Steam Excursion Co. Pacifica, Calif. USA http://45mm.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ^^^ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com
Re: Pc vs Mac / RH Vs Accucraft
Hi Keith, Never thought of using Gee--Gee's fuel or Peat's sake. Do you mean Saki?. Now that would blister your paintwork!!. Personnally, I steer clear of the Malt as well, to ensure our buddies have their share to keep their Scotsman Flying, and really chuffed. Pity that Aster went the liquor route with the Scotsman, but appropriate. But it is not a true live steamer in the real sense is it?. We really need to burn up all the fossil fuels and Mac's first, to make the world a better place eventually!. Maybe millions of coal fired Rubies @$25 each will do the trick. (I was wondering about the cause of China's smog). Must be one heck of a factory Accucraft has!!!. Regards, Tony D. At 01:14 PM 11/12/02 -0500, Keith Taylor wrote: - Original Message - From: Anthony Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 8:22 PM Anyone tried dried Haggis as an alternative fuel source for McRubies?. Tony D. Gee what's all this talk about alternative fuelsfor Peat's sake! Keith
Re: Pc vs Mac / RH Vs Accucraft
Hi Phil, In deference to the web mom. We should now refer to Woundhouse's and Macrubie's in future, to keep legit. Fuelled with Cornish pasties and Scones soaked in Devonshire Clotted cream, lubed with strawberry jam???. At least the multiple leaks from CI6s would be tasteful during mopping up. Anyone tried dried Haggis as an alternative fuel source for McRubies?. Tony D. At 06:38 PM 11/11/02 -0500, FBM Studios wrote: Hi So far I am happy with the Ruby and would love a Roundhouse one day. The Ruby is great for people like me who have to kitbash every loco they own. I only run it occasionally and run my R/C battery on board units most of the time. ps I mean seldom :__) PS : if Roundhouse were like Windows - MAc would be the 1/1 real Live steam loco hehe 8-} Cheers from just another crazy Canadian. On Monday, November 11, 2002, at 04:29 PM, Phil Paskos wrote: Sometimes things need to be stirred up to get some life in the list. It's your turn next. You've been kind of quiet lately. Of course DC is right about sticking to SS LS. Phil Well, you got yer Flack, Phil--but not from me--from our esteened leader--That'll larn you. I'm mighty glad Dave wasn't my Captain, when I was a Bootneck. And Tag, Bootnecks never argue with Stokers--they are the buddies aboard ship. Geoff. PS, Dave realises that the PC -Mac controversy could go on for ever!! You note that his PS gets the last word in--Clever chap!
Re: Lathes for Live Steamers
Hi John, Thanks for the info. I will contact Lautard. Will be interesting to know comparative costs, deliveries and shipping details from UK to Canada then into US. Maybe they can arrange direct shipment to US?. Have you used them at all?. Regards, Tony D. At 02:24 AM 10/17/02 -0500, you wrote: Hi Tony - Have you try this Guy? http://lautard.com/myfordpa.htm - John - Original Message - From: Anthony Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:33 AM Subject: Re: Lathes for Live Steamers Hi Keith, Apologies for late reply. I did contact Tony Griffiths in UK, and he advised I contact Myfords factory direct!. I have not done this as yet. I also contacted Blue Ridge earlier this week. They have no Myfords in stock and have only sold three in the last two years. However they were placing an order for a long bed Big Bore Super 7 this week to Myfords at $9,000 inclusive of shipping, additional tools, no stand, and 6 weeks delivery. Apparently a guy in Colorado is buying this one, and he wants it painted bright green, instead of the basic Aquamarine. (I did not ask why). Blue Ridge have been contacted by an Auction House, to buy back a Short Bed Super 7, 10 years old. They told me ok to contact auction house direct, and Auction House sent me some photo files. Lathe looks in excellent shape, but missing the chuck?, apparently they are auctioning to tools seperately!. They are asking a fixed price of $5,000 for the lathe and presumably plus the tools. I am checking back with them on this, but still pricey. I also received a Myford catalogue from BlueRidge. FYI. The Super 7 speed range is from 27rpm to 2175rpm in 18 steps. This small detail is not shown on the BlueRidge website. Regards, Tony D.
Re: Lathes for Live Steamers
Hi Gary, Reference Spindle speeds. I was quoting from a new Myford catalogue I received yesterday at 27-2175rpm. Not the used machine offered (I need to clarify this with supplier). Regards, Tony D. At 11:14 AM 10/17/02 -0700, Gary wrote: Sounds like the used one has more versatility than the current model Myford describes featuring Spindle Speeds: 14, from 32 to 2500 rpm Hi Keith, Apologies for late reply. I did contact Tony Griffiths in UK, and he advised I contact Myfords factory direct!. I have not done this as yet. I also contacted Blue Ridge earlier this week. They have no Myfords in stock and have only sold three in the last two years. However they were placing an order for a long bed Big Bore Super 7 this week to Myfords at $9,000 inclusive of shipping, additional tools, no stand, and 6 weeks delivery. Apparently a guy in Colorado is buying this one, and he wants it painted bright green, instead of the basic Aquamarine. (I did not ask why). Blue Ridge have been contacted by an Auction House, to buy back a Short Bed Super 7, 10 years old. They told me ok to contact auction house direct, and Auction House sent me some photo files. Lathe looks in excellent shape, but missing the chuck?, apparently they are auctioning to tools seperately!. They are asking a fixed price of $5,000 for the lathe and presumably plus the tools. I am checking back with them on this, but still pricey. I also received a Myford catalogue from BlueRidge. FYI. The Super 7 speed range is from 27rpm to 2175rpm in 18 steps. This small detail is not shown on the BlueRidge website. Regards, Tony D. aylor wrote: Hi Steve, Harry and Keith, et al, Actually Gary Broeder alerted me to the same advert last week. I called the owner and spent a couple of hours checking it out, as follows:- It is 1951 Long Bed, but ID # was difficult to read as whether a A-B or C Model. Tony, I was afraid that mint might mean shiney paint! While it would definately cst you $2,000 to replace the accesories that come with that machine, as Cushman Chucks and hardinge collets are very fine and expensive tools, you'd then still need to go out and buy a lathe! Did you ever contact the folks at Blue Ridge regarding a Myford? Or Tony Griffith's in the U.K., he was very accomodating to my friend when he sold a Myford and shipped it to the US. The owner in Maine is as happy as a pig in mud with it! Keith
Re: Lathes for Live Steamers
Hi Keith, Apologies for late reply. I did contact Tony Griffiths in UK, and he advised I contact Myfords factory direct!. I have not done this as yet. I also contacted Blue Ridge earlier this week. They have no Myfords in stock and have only sold three in the last two years. However they were placing an order for a long bed Big Bore Super 7 this week to Myfords at $9,000 inclusive of shipping, additional tools, no stand, and 6 weeks delivery. Apparently a guy in Colorado is buying this one, and he wants it painted bright green, instead of the basic Aquamarine. (I did not ask why). Blue Ridge have been contacted by an Auction House, to buy back a Short Bed Super 7, 10 years old. They told me ok to contact auction house direct, and Auction House sent me some photo files. Lathe looks in excellent shape, but missing the chuck?, apparently they are auctioning to tools seperately!. They are asking a fixed price of $5,000 for the lathe and presumably plus the tools. I am checking back with them on this, but still pricey. I also received a Myford catalogue from BlueRidge. FYI. The Super 7 speed range is from 27rpm to 2175rpm in 18 steps. This small detail is not shown on the BlueRidge website. Regards, Tony D. aylor wrote: Hi Steve, Harry and Keith, et al, Actually Gary Broeder alerted me to the same advert last week. I called the owner and spent a couple of hours checking it out, as follows:- It is 1951 Long Bed, but ID # was difficult to read as whether a A-B or C Model. Tony, I was afraid that mint might mean shiney paint! While it would definately cst you $2,000 to replace the accesories that come with that machine, as Cushman Chucks and hardinge collets are very fine and expensive tools, you'd then still need to go out and buy a lathe! Did you ever contact the folks at Blue Ridge regarding a Myford? Or Tony Griffith's in the U.K., he was very accomodating to my friend when he sold a Myford and shipped it to the US. The owner in Maine is as happy as a pig in mud with it! Keith
Re: Another Firebox Question
Hi Steve, G1 Firebox Arches. You can come over and measure the fireboxe's on my three coal fired engines anytime. None have arches, although there was a very interesting article in the G1MRA approx. one year ago (I will pull out the article for you). This illustrated how to calculate arch size and shape for a G1 engine and install. As I recall the arch was added as an after market loose feature to allow firing studies and adjustments. Apparently it made a significant difference to the running and steaming capabilities of the particular engine discussed. I cannot remember if the arch was copper or stainless. I am tempted to try it to define cause and affect. Apparently the arch makes for a more efficient fire, and prevents coals/ash being drawn into the lower boiler tubes. Will keep you posted, Regards, Tony D. At 06:30 AM 10/15/02 -0700, Shyvers, Steve wrote: Harry, Keith, Jeff, and Mike, Your information is great. Now I have another question for the list about gauge 1 coal-fired fireboxes. Has a brick arch, or its equivalent, ever been used in a gauge 1 coal-fired firebox? Or is it irrelevant because the combustion path is so short in gauge 1 size? I understand that the alcohol-fired C-type boiler configuration accomplishes a similar effect by lengthening the combustion path, but I have almost zero experience with gauge 1 coal-fired firebox designs. Steve
Re: boiler insulation
Hi Graham, Ref. Insulation. Do I understand you use both glass and lagging. i.e. use glass insulation, it supports the lagging?. Is it a two layered sandwich?. What is the lagging material?. How thick? Which areas do you use it?. Which engine and fuel?. Would appreciate a few more details, if possible. Thanks, Tony D. At 02:47 PM 10/10/02 -0400, cgprod wrote: Hi Geoff. This e-mail is not aboot insulation although might as well add my thoughts ( I use glass insul ie what is used in house wall insul ;; it supports the lagging and at the same time gives that air gap that all you guys mention ) . No I have had a puzzling problem pop up ;; made a new chicken feeder tank ;; did all air leak checking tried it with water and walla worked great ;; put it in the tender and filled with Metholhydrate and the by thing leaked tried it again in water and it worked . Put my thinking cap on again but they must loose their powewr with age ;; have you ever come across this condition before and if yes what was the trouble ? Graham S ( without a cap ) - Original Message - From: Geoff Spenceley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:03 PM Subject: Re: boiler insulation Dear Zbigniew, Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. To correct myself on the A3, there wasn't much play in the valve gear, it was in the reverser and the linkage to the valve gear, more for my satisfaction than the expectation of better running, as it it runs very well now. I did assemble a CS Mogul--the play in all parts of the valve gear was overplayed.--It was sloppy! There was one fellow, whose name I can't recall, who solved the problem by manufacturing all new valve gear! Probably the only way to sure success! I appreciate your input and experience on assembly and testing. Steam on, Geoff. Dear Geoff, Thank you for your kind words. As I elaborated on in another email just sent, I am still hesitant about the gap. Measurements convince me, although the extra amount of work and the need to shop for the components may be a strong counter-argument. I haven't decided yet. I have to remark that my efforts to keep every Joule of energy in place should make me a perfect Dutchman;^)! But as to my origins, they are more steam-and-narrow-gauge-land than under-water-land! I am most intrigued by your work on removing the play in the valve gear. I believe this is a long researched phenomenon in the CS Mogul, but I have recently been playing around with the valve gear wondering if the play of about 1 mm should not be reduced... (the steam inlets in the cylinders are about 1.5 mm!!) In effect symmetrical steam transfer is only possible in one direction (say forward) while the other direction will be strongly asymmetrical (only one side of the cylinder will receive steam). Surprisingly, air test only shows later activation of the movement in the asymmetrical direction, not a much more violent and irregular (un-smooth) running. In fact, for small openings of the reverser the running is very nervous and violent in both directions (symmetrical and asymmetrical steam inlet opening) to the same degree. This would mean that there is little practical need for removing the play, it would only shorten the dead region in the reverser range but not improve the running for small opening. Happy steaming! Zbigniew
RE: Lathes for Live Steamers
Hi Steve, Harry and Keith, et al, Actually Gary Broeder alerted me to the same advert last week. I called the owner and spent a couple of hours checking it out, as follows:- It is 1951 Long Bed, but ID # was difficult to read as whether a A-B or C Model. It sat on a 52L x 38W x 30 High Stand and with same size Swarf Catch Tray. Drive motor was also located over catch tray. It had 4 and 3 Cushman chucks and 8? Faceplate. Also a 16 piece Hardinge collet set with screw on retaining ring, not quick release type head.. It had 6 Royal Quick release tool holders, and approx. 15 tools, boring bars etc. Steady Rest and follow rest. SB Tailstock Drill chuck. No taper attachment. Problems:- All 6 main Drive Pulley surfaces were deeply concaved, indicating a lot of use. The Initial 8 of each bedway under chuck area was deeply pitted and many- many pock- marks. No smooth surface in this area. Definately needed re-machining) Tailstock Drill Quill o/d was also heavily dented in several areas. (Do not understand how the o.d of the quill can be dented). I have never seen this, even on a high production lathe). Cross traverse was weak, had very little drive strength. (1 finger would stop traverse). This may be just need a clutch adjustment?. Leadscrew Gearbox change position location pockets were heavily burred and edges, rolled over, difficult to align and engage. Needed a lot of rework on these. Change gears looked ok, but had some excess backlash. i.e. over .010- .015. Traverse power lead screw also had end play, which needed adjusting rings resetting. Head bearings had play. (Some chuck movement in vertical axis). The owner also had a 1950 South Bend short bed, which looked brand new,with spot less bed ways, still has the original bedway padding-in marks, and a claimed 1 hours use. It had a 6 jaw Cushman chuck. This lathe was not for sale, but definately high-lighted the problems with the mint long bed. This lathe was worth $2200. Co-incidentally, Jeff Williams, one of our SSLivesteam contributers who lives local to me, demonstrated his 1941 Southbend, Long bed, to me this weekend. The bedways are clean and almost unmarked, traverse drive and gearbox very good and clean, and Drive pulleys,(Convex- no wear), toolposts, tailstock, chucks, collets etc. all have far less wear than the 1951 mint lathe I initially saw. If anyone from mid West/back East' still thinks this is good buy, I can hook you up with the owner. It is still available, but I think he still wants at least $2,000. I appreciate the integrity, strengths and longevity of the Southbend, and sturdiness of the belt drive and hard geared head etc. over the elastic band, and nylon drives of the Chinese products. But both products still rely on good preventive maintenance and care by the owner/user , and minimal abuse. Incidentally, the seller of the Southbend I reviewed, built and flew R/C Helicopters. (Had 8 models). We did comment on the fact that the toothed belt drives of these model helicopters were more rugged than the belt drives of modern Chinese lathes. I also appreciate the cost of mandatory accessories can double the asking price of a basic lathe. But these can be purchased piecemeal as required, but not cost effective or useful if the basic lathe itself is not in good shape. Therefore still looking. (Maybe for a Myford). I have just received a Prazi catalogue and choked. Price does not include a 3 Litre BMW as I thought. Thanks for everyones input, advise and comments. Regards, Tony D. you see the ad in Sunday's Mercury-News for a 9 South Bend?. The particulars are: longbed, 3 jaw chuck, 4 jaw chuck, collets, steady follower rest, quick change tool post, mint. Asking price was $2200. I'd be curious to know what the list thinks of that price for a 9 SB with long bed. It might be a useful reference point for you. I can send you the telephone number off list if you want to inquire about it. It appears to be a SF Peninsula number. Steve
Re: boiler insulation
Hi Geoff, I agree that Aster appears to rely on the air gap between boiler and casing for keeping the casing temperature down, and it seems to do a good job for them. But did you see my e mail earlier this week about casing temperature tests carried out on my Duchess, now being repaired after the the meltdown you saw at Pleasanton?. As follows:- Temperatures taken at 1st boiler band immediately behind smokebox. Casing Surface - no insulation (i.e. air gap) = 180c With Fibreglass insulation at 1mm thick = 155c (Casing Paint blistered) With Generic Ceramic sheet = 135c (as used on earlier engines) With Aster Ceramic sheet = 145c (as supplied for temp. comparisons. In this case the air gap does not appear effective in keeping the casing temperature down, but I suggest Asters air gaps between casing and boiler at the smokebox are more generous at 2-2.5mm plus. And they have a 3mm plus gap towards the firebox and cab. I only have the U1-232 and King George for reference, and not familiar with their other designs. There is not doubt that in my case the insulation and type makes a difference compared to relying on air gap only. But I think there are other factors, in that Asters smokebox is made up from .060-.080 brass sheet. And outer casing .032 sheet. Whereas the Duchess smokebox is a machined brass tube, with a generous .125 or 187 wall thickness x approx. 2'' long x approx. 2 dia. as I recall (engine not with me at present), with a casing at .032 thick. I suggest that Asters thinner materials in the smokebox and casing allow a faster dispersion of heat, and cooler surface temps. Whereas the thicker smokebox material of the Duchess retains more heat and heat buildup over time. Which in turn is transferred to the thinner casing, leading to higher surface temps, with which a plain 1mm air gap cannot cope. I have been looking at using a alumina ceramic solid walled tube between the boiler and casing, and no fibre materials at all. As solid ceramic is a total insulator to over 1000F. This would keep the boiler heat in i.e. better effieciency, and maintain casing at ambient temp. Standard size ceramic tubes at 2 dia and 1mm wall are available, or can be ground to final sizes. (On my new lathe!). Paint:- Although the soft solder on the Duchess boiler band gave way, (now being silver soldered) and paint top coat and clearcoat blistered. The orange undercoat was not burnt or discoloured. We suspect the semimat finish colour paint coat and gloss clear coat were incompatable also, as there are signs of orange peeling. Paint experts at suppliers, and hot rod decoration associates we have questioned, state that a mat clear coat over mat paint is ok, or gloss over gloss ok. But not gloss over mat or vice versa. Apparently base pigments are different and one attacks the other over time and do not set up/harden off correctly. Also the top coat did not appear to adhere to the undercoat. So there may be a surface prep finish here also. All this fun and a Weetabix soaked in Watneys for breakfast keeps us keeps active!. Regards, Tony D. Mike, Whoops! I should know how to spell Vegemite, I eat it all the time!! Marmite too! Mellows the Tanqueray. I like your On the matter of insulation remember that whatever we use, it is the layer of air trapped between boiler shell and wrapper that provides the reduction in heat transfer Perhaps this is why Aster doesn't put insulation on all their boilers? Just a good air space. Geoff Hi All, Here in Oz we eat Weetbix (no a) and Vegemite (no a), but I have never combined them together. On the matter of insulation remember that whatever we use, it is the layer of air trapped between boiler shell and wrapper that provides the reduction in heat transfer. The cardboard, fiberglass, weetabix packet, cork etc provides a nice way of keeping that air space intact. A side benefit would be less chance of burning the paint on the outer wrapper too. cheers, Mike Bickford Berowra Nalya Tramway Sydney, Australia - Original Message - From: Bruce Gathman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:33 PM Subject: Re: boiler insulation On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 22:50:21 +0100, mart.towers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Ciambrone, Steve @ OS [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 10:14 PM Subject: RE: boiler insulation Weetabix packet? USA translation Please. Weetabix - a kind of dessicated, compressed, wheat grain residue, sold in briquette form. In comparison, the southern US 'grits' are a sophisticated highly palatable breakfast cereal. Art Walker Is this held in place with Vegamite? Bruce Gathman
RE: boiler insulation
Hi Geoff, So would you be kind enough to pass on some of Lindsay's Aster tweeks please. (Is he on line?). Or you going to watch us struggle!. I can grease you palm with Glenfiddock to make it worth your while. A Watney's is a bit too cheap in this case!. Casing Temps.:- This is an interesting subject, and could vary greatly between model designs, fuels used, materials, builder etc. There seems to be a lot of theories regarding the hot air or insulation variables. Does anyone else have actual temperature data for comparisons, in addition to the brief temp readings I put out. I would be very interested in seeing more data, and it would be good to back up the opinions, don't ya think?. And help save someone's Ruby investment. We still do not know which engine our Dutch collegue is referring too?. Scotsman Question:- What makes you suspect no oil is reaching the outside cylinders?. Apart from none disappearing from the oil tank between steamups. It is all good to know info. Best regards, Tony D. At 04:27 PM 10/4/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Hi, Steve, Tony, and Zbigniew, Thanks for all the information on boiler insulation, it's very informative with great ideas and I shall keep it my files for future reference! Thanks to all three of you--and others who contributed! But as that knowledgeable Dutchman noted, he'll probably use the air space for the time being, so will I. The damp air in Humboldt County should do it and I can breath in a little hot air, er, with Tony's help! But for now I am working on reducing the play in the reversing of the valve gear of the Aster Flying S, some of which I have accomplished (with a Sherline I've owned for 25 years!)!). I have also received some great ideas from Lindsay Crow, the renowned Aussie who has assembled 57 Asters! Also, I worry about the the way the lubricator is placed.- I suspect that there may be a problem with oil reaching the outside cyls. More coming from Lindsay on that too, which should help. These Ausssies have some wonderful Railroads too with wonderful GTGs. but remember: You can call an Englishman an Aussie, but never, NEVAH I say; call an Aussie an Englishman, those ex-convicts will kill you. Geoff.
Re: Lathe question
Hi Gary, The Prazi agent in Huntingdon Beach. LA is asking $3,895 for the 8 x20 D2400, and $6,400 for the 10 x 24 D6000. These are manual lathes. The 2 axis CNC D6000 machine is obviously higher. (i did not ask). They are offering 20% discounts on these prices. but still expensive, compared to other options offered. Tony D. At 03:29 PM 10/2/02 -0700, you wrote: What about companies like Prazi (I saw another either German or Austrian lathe/mill product at the Model Engineer's show in Eugene, Oregon last weekend), Shopmaster, Simplex, compared to Myford for example? Since Myford seems to be a good standard to measure other mid to mini sized lathes. ~Gary - The Train Trestle Nut www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor Some urls I found of interest while trying to find a site that compares lathes. http://www.shoptask.com/machine.htm ? http://www.shoptask.com/machine.htm ? http://www.littlemachineshop.com/default.php http://www.rcsiemers.com/ hobby lathes Dekavan / Sherline http://www.lathes.co.uk/page21.html listing of huge number of lathes from all over the world http://www.mini-lathe.com/Links.htm#Lathe_Vendors Mini-Lathes link list of lathe and mill venders - Original Message - From: Ciambrone, Steve @ OS [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 2:14 PM Subject: RE: boiler insulation Weetabix packet? USA translation Please. Sincerely Steve Ciambrone Sr. Test Engineer L-3 Ocean Systems
Re: Lathe question
Hi Paul, I think Prazi's must carry a BMW badge also!. i.e significantly overpriced. Tony D. At 06:36 PM 10/2/02 -0400, you wrote: Gary wrote: What about companies like Prazi (I saw another either German or Austrian lathe/mill product at the Model Engineer's show in Eugene, Oregon last weekend), Shopmaster, Simplex, compared to Myford for example? Prazi's, in my opinion, are significantly overpriced. Shoptask machines have a serious lack of rigidity. If you're in North America, Myford's might as well have platinum beds for what they cost:) -- Paul Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/victorianmen -- Owner
Re: boiler insulation
Hi Kevin, Sorry, Mistaken identity. (Or still in denial!). Thought I had tracked down the culprit!. Regards, Tony D. At 10:32 PM 10/2/02 -0600, you wrote: Tony, 'twas not me in Sacramento. Never been there. And I have yet to burn any cork. I've cut cork, drilled cork, popped a few corks, but I have yet to burn any. Burnt my share of other materials, though... Just not in Sacramento. Later, K
Re: Lathes for Live (or limey) Steamers
Hi Jeff, I know. Just kidding about bringing it over. Will call you later this week. Regards, Tony D. At 10:23 PM 10/1/02 -0700, Jeffrey Williams wrote: Tony, It weighs a couple hundred pounds and it's bolted to a large table so the best solution is for you to come on over to try it out! Jeff = Anthony Dixon wrote: Hi Jeffrey, Good idea on test run. I may take you up on the offer soon i.e. this weekend?. Do you plan on bringing it over or should I walk to your place!!!. Thank you, Tony D. At 06:40 PM 10/1/02 -0700, Jeffrey Williams wrote: Tony, I've got a 1942 South Bend 9 x 24 (between centers) in my shop, fully equiped except for taper attachment. You're welcome to try it out to see if this fits your needs (note to readers: Tony lives in the same town as I do!). If I was going to get a different lathe, however, I'd go for a used South Bend 10, which is much stiffer (important for accuracy, particularly with carbide cutting tools) and has a cam-type chuck holder, rather than threaded as on the 9. Also, the taper attachment is much better than that available for the 9 and the drive for the apron uses a separate drive, rather than the lead screw. The 9 (and perhaps other small lathes) uses the lead screw both for threading and for longitudinal feed. The problem is wear - the lead screw wears in the 2-3 in front of the chuck due to its regular use as a feed drive. Bigger (and more expensive) lathes have a separate lead screw for threading independent of the drive shaft (usally a spline) for feed. Jeff
Re: boiler insulation
Hi Zbigniew, I do not know which engine design you have, or coal, alcohol or butane fired, but at 2-2.5mm gap you may be safe. But very dependant on actual model, materials and design. I recently experienced a major paint and soft soldered boiler ring meltdown on a new engine at the smokebox/casing join area. Which apparently was caused by the builder using a glass wool/fibre glass insulation as a replacement for the generic ceramic sheet, which the builder normally used on other engines. And similar to the ceramic sheet Aster suppliers with their kits. Subsequent temperature tests being carried out on the repaired engine, show a higher 20-25c difference in temperature, on the outer casing using fibre glass insulation over ceramic insulation, and a higher 45c difference when un-insulated. i.e. Un-insulated boiler casing Temp = 180c (Under load with maximum blower) Ceramic insulation 1mm = 135c (Normally used by supplier) Fibre glass insulation 1mm= 155c (as used before meltdown). Asters Ceramic Insulation 1mm = 145c (supplied by myself for comparison tests). I do not know the material differences between the Aster ceramic insulation and the builders original ceramic, but at same thickness, there is a 10c difference in insulated temperature also. With Asters material being higher. This is on a coal fired engine using using 1mm thick sheet between boiler and outer casing at the smokebox/casing join area. This area appears capable of taking 1.5mm insulation. So we intend increasing ceramic sheet thickness to 1.5mm. The clearance between casing and firebox is over 2mm and still showed tiny .030 blistering again with the fibre glass insulation. We are re packing area this with 2.5mm ceramic sheet also There is no insulation inside the smokebox.. Interestingly, when the top coat and clearcoat blistered and burnt, the primer paint undercoat was undamaged. So we are checking out these variables also. (Another story). On Aster engines (U1 232 -coal or alcohol fired, and King George V- alcohol fired) they only carry insulation as an inner lining in the smokebox, and none between boiler and casing. Which appears to be between 1mm to 2.5mm gap from smokebox to firebox. I assume relying on the air gap to disperse the heat. (We do not know Asters paint formula secret either). Interestingly, the ceramic sheet in the U1 and King does get wet due to the steam saturation and condensation, but dries out over time. I have not seen any corrosion caused by this, in over 4 years use. Hope the above helps your thoughts. Regards, Tony D. At 01:21 PM 10/2/02 +0200, you wrote: Dear Friends, I have about 2.0-2.5mm space between the boiler and the jacket and I wonder whether insulating the boiler would be a good idea and what the best material for this would be. I am considering ceramic sheet like the one used for the smokebox insulation or mineral or glass wool. The only thing that I am concerned with would be possible moisture accumulation and corrosion to the boiler. Many thanks for any advice! Happy steaming, Zbigniew
