Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
In a message dated 7/6/03 3:46:21 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Whenever I have to solder SS, I just do it. >> A trick some may not know about soft soldering SS with ordinary tin/lead solders is to use a grinding wheel in a Dremel tool. Run the wheel on the solder till the wheel is loaded and then grind on the surface of the SS. The wheel will remove the oxide from the SS and at the same time melt solder to "tin" the surface. SS is stainless because of the tight oxide film on the surface.
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Steve Shyvers wrote: Thanks, Harry. I bow to your superior wisdom and knowledge, and, most of all, to your willingness to share it. Regards, Steve Nice to have someone so nice having the last word more often than not. It's always clear that Harry has taken more time in crafting his comments than most (including me). Thanks. royce in SB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 03:43 PM 7/10/03 -0700, you wrote: Harry, would it be more correct to say that you were trying to break the surface tension of the molten solder blob in order to make it run along the joint? Theoretically solders won't flow, or rather wet, because the flux has broken down or was inadequate to begin with or a contaminate, usually an oxide of some sort, has formed on the target surfaces. The idea of scratching is to attempt to remove or at least displace some of that oxide in order to encourage the solder to stick. The failure of scratching in silver soldering is due to the high temps involved and the quick formation of hard oxides or burnt contaminates. Another hopeless non-starter is attempting to add a fluid flux to a joint at brazing temp. Regards, Harry
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Yes, I went through three oxygen cylinders at about $8 each (and that was about 7 or 8 years ago) when silver soldering a 1 5/8" dia. x 6" long copper boiler with a 7/8" dia. steam dome. I managed to get the job done, albeit somewhat sloppy, i.e. way too much alloy. I also melted the corner of the brass filler/safety valve bushing. (Hey Richard, It never occurred to me to blame it on the flux... :-) ) To sum it up - the tiny flame burns at a very high temperature (over 5,000' F) - but the total heat content is rather low. I'd pass on it. Mike Martin Check out my steam related pages at: http://www.panyo.com/steamups
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
At 04:33 PM 7/10/03 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks, Harry. I bow to your superior wisdom and knowledge, >Steve Well, all I'll admit to is having read or been told a bit more about other's experiences than the average bear, being able to remember and regurgitate it on demand, and then having tried them a few times, with mixed results. Like most people, I'm not all that chatty about my failures. :-) Re statement #1, 95% of my time is still spent reading and listening to other people's experiences. Regards, Harry
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Thanks, Harry. I bow to your superior wisdom and knowledge, and, most of all, to your willingness to share it. Regards, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 03:43 PM 7/10/03 -0700, you wrote: Harry, would it be more correct to say that you were trying to break the surface tension of the molten solder blob in order to make it run along the joint? Theoretically solders won't flow, or rather wet, because the flux has broken down or was inadequate to begin with or a contaminate, usually an oxide of some sort, has formed on the target surfaces. The idea of scratching is to attempt to remove or at least displace some of that oxide in order to encourage the solder to stick. The failure of scratching in silver soldering is due to the high temps involved and the quick formation of hard oxides or burnt contaminates. Another hopeless non-starter is attempting to add a fluid flux to a joint at brazing temp. Regards, Harry -- Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://shopnow.netscape.com/
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
At 03:43 PM 7/10/03 -0700, you wrote: >Harry, would it be more correct to say that you were trying to break the surface tension of the molten solder blob in order to make it run along the joint? Theoretically solders won't flow, or rather wet, because the flux has broken down or was inadequate to begin with or a contaminate, usually an oxide of some sort, has formed on the target surfaces. The idea of scratching is to attempt to remove or at least displace some of that oxide in order to encourage the solder to stick. The failure of scratching in silver soldering is due to the high temps involved and the quick formation of hard oxides or burnt contaminates. Another hopeless non-starter is attempting to add a fluid flux to a joint at brazing temp. Regards, Harry
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Royce and Harry, Thanks for the explanation about "scratch". Harry, would it be more correct to say that you were trying to break the surface tension of the molten solder blob in order to make it run along the joint? I understand Royce's comment about the process failing if you have to scratch it. I did a little bit of silver soldering the other day and had just about given up on one joint. The solder blob had partially melted and had an uneven surface and a slightly darker color. If I'd had a scratch rod I'd have used it. As it was I turned up the Mapp gas a little bit and held the torch steadier adjacent to the joint and the solder, most of it anyway, eventually wicked along the joint. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 09:01 AM 7/10/03 -0700, you wrote: Well, maybe that's not the correct term, It absolutely is the correct term, in fact there is such an animal as a "scratch rod" for soft soldering. This is nothing more than a piece of steel rod with a crook and a pointy end on it. It's used to scratch through the solder puddle to encourage it to adhere where it refuses to adhere. Royce is also pretty much correct when he says that in silver soldering if you need to use a scratch rod the process has failed. But every once in a while I try using scratch to save a joint and it sometimes helps, sometimes not. Regards, Harry -- Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://shopnow.netscape.com/
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
At 09:01 AM 7/10/03 -0700, you wrote: >Well, maybe that's not the correct term, It absolutely is the correct term, in fact there is such an animal as a "scratch rod" for soft soldering. This is nothing more than a piece of steel rod with a crook and a pointy end on it. It's used to scratch through the solder puddle to encourage it to adhere where it refuses to adhere. Royce is also pretty much correct when he says that in silver soldering if you need to use a scratch rod the process has failed. But every once in a while I try using scratch to save a joint and it sometimes helps, sometimes not. Regards, Harry
RE: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Steve, I had one of those when I worked as a maintenance man for a popular Pizza restaurant chain (rhymes with mutt). The oxygen seamed to run out really fast. If you could get a small refillable oxygen bottle to attach instead of the disposable one it might be worth it. Just my 2 cents worth. Terry Griner Columbus Ohio >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/10/03 11:22AM >>> Has anyone tried the Bernzomatic Mapp/oxygen torch it retails for 50 USD with disposable cylinders. For the amount of Silversoldering I do in a year even if I bought a couple of cylinders a year it would still be cost effective. I know the cost of the gas would be higher in the little cylinders but not much is really required for hobby boilers. I have silver soldered a 1 ½ inch boiler with a single Mapp torch. I do not know what the cylinder gas requirements are in Southern California but I am sure/maybe is has become a painfully difficult process. Hazardous Material, AQMD, Fire Marshal, City Permit??? Steve
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Steve Shyvers wrote: Royce, What is the operation that you refer to as "scratch"? Well, maybe that's not the correct term, but it would refer to "encouraging" the silver solder to flow where it doesn't seem inclined to go by means of a wire used to "scratch" or push the solder around. PS haven't gotten around to getting an appropriate photo to post. royce in SB
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Royce, What is the operation that you refer to as "scratch"? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You don't need to "scratch". In my experience, if you've reached the "scratch" point, the process has failed. Steve
RE: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Has anyone tried the Bernzomatic Mapp/oxegen torch it retails for 50 USD with disposable cylinders. For the amount of silversolderng I do in a year even if I bought a couple of cylinders a year it would still be cost effective. I know the cost of the gas would be higher in the little cylinders but not much is really required for hobby boilers. I have silver soldered a 1 1/2 inch boiler with a single Mapp torch. I do not know what the cyclinder gas requirements are in Southern California but I am sure/maybe is has become a painfully difficult process. Hazardous Material, AQMD, Fire Marshal, City Permit??? Steve
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
On 10/7/03 8:05 am, "Mike Chaney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I can explain volts / amps. >> Volts = how fast the river is flowing >> Amps = how wide it is > > I used to teach electronics to adults using the "water analogy" to explain the > relationship between voltage, current, resistance etc.. On one occasion, > having > spent about twenty minutes going through my spiel, a voice from the back (why > is > it always the back?) asked, "I understand the electricity bit, but what's all > this stuff about water?" In the Royal Navy I was taught to use the mnemonic "Virgins Are Rare" which most young sailors found very easy to remember. Some of the other mnemonics were not only highly politically incorrect but unsuitable for the ears of respectable young steamologists such as ourselves. The resistor colour code I have always remembered, the phrase taught for this purpose by a grizzled old Chief Electrician would nowadays get him sacked -- Yours Aye Tag Gorton Longlands & Western Railway Trematon Office Saltash Cornwall Directors: T. Gorton, Madame E. Lash
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Hi Robb. Can an Oxy/acetylene torch be used to make a 2 1/2" boiler? From what I have read, oxy/acetylene is too much heat for our purposes unless you are welding. I see in my local paper a fellow has a used one for sale tomorrow at his garage sale. And I think that the turbo torch (acetylene only) torches are different than O/A torches. You can't just turn off the oxygen. I have tried the two fisted Mapp gas method Well, I had acetylene in my right hand. but I need about two more hands for flux and solder. And I use the method of fluxing (with black for boilers), laying on snippets (or rings) of silver solder, and heating until the solder flows into the heat (joint). You don't need to "scratch". In my experience, if you've reached the "scratch" point, the process has failed. royce in SB
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Robb wrote: > I can explain volts / amps. > Volts = how fast the river is flowing > Amps = how wide it is But ... but ... isn't volts the analogue of head, and amps the analogue of flow rate? (volume per unit time?) I'm tempted to delve deeper (how fast <=> propogation speed, how wide <=> diameter of conductor, area vs. ampacity), but I don't want to get in over my head. :-) - - Steve
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
> I can explain volts / amps. > Volts = how fast the river is flowing > Amps = how wide it is I used to teach electronics to adults using the "water analogy" to explain the relationship between voltage, current, resistance etc.. On one occasion, having spent about twenty minutes going through my spiel, a voice from the back (why is it always the back?) asked, "I understand the electricity bit, but what's all this stuff about water?" I've given up teaching now - steam engines don't ask questions. Mike p.s. the explanation at the top of the page is incorrect.
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Deep thoughts ... At 08:14 PM 7/9/2003 -0400, you wrote: I can explain volts / amps. Volts = how fast the river is flowing Amps = how wide it is Robb who is an electrician in Michigan Vance Bass wrote: > > Don't ask me how that works. I used to think I understood volts and > amps, too, but I find that I can't explain them to my own satisfaction > anymore, much less help you out. It's every fool for himself! >
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
I can explain volts / amps. Volts = how fast the river is flowing Amps = how wide it is Robb who is an electrician in Michigan Vance Bass wrote: > > Don't ask me how that works. I used to think I understood volts and > amps, too, but I find that I can't explain them to my own satisfaction > anymore, much less help you out. It's every fool for himself! >
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Hi, The most important question is what size torch is it? Does it include a selection of welding tips? Does it include a cutting head? How old is it? You can plan on paying for a rebuild of the hand piece and cutting head, say 75.00 to 100.00. The hand piece that will work good for boiler making is small, say 8 to 10 inches long, not including the tips. There are a host of brands that have gone to the great beyond and getting tips is a chore. The regulators and hose should be included. You will most likely have to buy cylinders, add a couple of hundred more. Then you will need a rose bud tip for area heating and silver brazing large items. You can seam a boiler with a small tip and control the temperature by adjusting the gas pressure. I use what used to be called an aircraft torch (no longer produced) and like it better than my seiverts. The heat from the seivert makes the shop too hot to work in. And yes, virginia, you can melt the copper if you are not careful. I bought this torch in 1965. We go back a long way. If you want an oxy / acetylene rig find one of the small ones where someone is selling the entire set, cylinders and all for under $200.00 Just my .02 worth Rich On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:41:48 -0600, Vance Bass wrote: ->> Can an Oxy/acetylene torch be used to make a 2 1/2" boiler? -> ->Pending a response from someone with more experience than I have, ->here's what I know (a little firsthand, mostly from reading books): -> ->Oxyacetylene burns at a higher temperature than propane. This could ->potentially melt the copper you're trying to join. (That's why it's used ->as a cutting torch as well as a welding torch.) -> ->Propane burns at a hot enough temperature to braze copper, but not ->so hot that you can easily burn holes in your work. -> ->Copper is an excellent conductor of heat. This means that it absorbs ->the heat you apply and radiates it out at all the places you're not ->applying it. -> ->Thus you neat a lot of HEAT (calories, thermal units, etc.), but NOT ->HIGH TEMPERATURE (degrees Celsius, Fahrenheit, etc.). An ->acetylene torch with a small head would be putting out high temp, but ->not enough thermal units to do the job. A propane torch with a big ->rosette head would be burning cooler, but would deliver enough heat ->to do the job. -> ->Don't ask me how that works. I used to think I understood volts and ->amps, too, but I find that I can't explain them to my own satisfaction ->anymore, much less help you out. It's every fool for himself! -> ->You can find good books on the subject at Sulphur Springs. -> ->regards, -> -vance- -> ->Vance Bass ->Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA ->Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass ->
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
> Can an Oxy/acetylene torch be used to make a 2 1/2" boiler? Pending a response from someone with more experience than I have, here's what I know (a little firsthand, mostly from reading books): Oxyacetylene burns at a higher temperature than propane. This could potentially melt the copper you're trying to join. (That's why it's used as a cutting torch as well as a welding torch.) Propane burns at a hot enough temperature to braze copper, but not so hot that you can easily burn holes in your work. Copper is an excellent conductor of heat. This means that it absorbs the heat you apply and radiates it out at all the places you're not applying it. Thus you neat a lot of HEAT (calories, thermal units, etc.), but NOT HIGH TEMPERATURE (degrees Celsius, Fahrenheit, etc.). An acetylene torch with a small head would be putting out high temp, but not enough thermal units to do the job. A propane torch with a big rosette head would be burning cooler, but would deliver enough heat to do the job. Don't ask me how that works. I used to think I understood volts and amps, too, but I find that I can't explain them to my own satisfaction anymore, much less help you out. It's every fool for himself! You can find good books on the subject at Sulphur Springs. regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Can an Oxy/acetylene torch be used to make a 2 1/2" boiler? I see in my local paper a fellow has a used one for sale tomorrow at his garage sale. What might be a good price for such a unit? I don't know if it will include the tanks. I have tried the two fisted Mapp gas method but I need about two more hands for flux and solder. And it takes too long to get up to solder melting temps. Robb in Michigan Walt Swartz wrote: > Oxy/acetylene is also a heck of a lot cleaner, especially when used in my > "home" shop as compared to a my commercial shop. The O/A is a little > trickier to adjust when you start out, but not having that dense black cloud > of soot is worth the extra effort. It also seems like the joints are cleaner > too. > Keep your steam up! > Walt > > >
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
At 04:51 PM 7/8/03 -0500, you wrote: >This may be a bit more than most people in gauge 1 need, but Sulphur Springs >has a Sievert starter kit (29000-KIT) that has the regulator, hose, handle, >and four cyclone tips for $250.00. The kit was put together for people >building the 3/4" locomotives in Kozo Hiraoka's books so the largest burner >is probably too hot for boiler work in gauge 1. >Tom Eaton To split hairs, it won't be too hot, the flame temp would be the same, but the Sievert big tips will throw out many more BTUs than required for typical Ga1 work. Still, considering what I've seen selling around these days that sounds like a very good deal to me. For me Turbo-Torch for $235, or Sievert for $250, would be a no-contest. Regards, Harry
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Harry Wade wrote: > Michael, > Visit your local professional plumbing and/or welding supply house > and ask what they have in an air/propane torch kits. Most of them will > have only one, or maybe two, options and they'll be hanging on the wall for > quick access for walk-in traffic. Or visit the net. Do NOT say > Gimme-that-one to the counter man without first asking price (unless you > don't care about price) as prices vary considerably between mfgs and > between suppliers, but sets for general plumbing (and small boiler) use are > now in the $200 range (tank not included). The particular brand I have is > Goss, which is a cut above the usual plumbers set, but which I found on > sale at a cut below the average. Sievert, which Mike and others have, is a > name that gets bandied about a lot in this discussion but Sievert is in a > different (higher) class and we don't have an exact match for it here in > the US. > > Regards, > Harry > This may be a bit more than most people in gauge 1 need, but Sulphur Springs has a Sievert starter kit (29000-KIT) that has the regulator, hose, handle, and four cyclone tips for $250.00. The kit was put together for people building the 3/4" locomotives in Kozo Hiraoka's books so the largest burner is probably too hot for boiler work in gauge 1. If you are interested, you can contact me off list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards, Tom Eaton
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
At 06:22 AM 7/8/03 -0700, you wrote: >(snip) Someone recently told me that these >systems are cheap and available (torch/hose/regulator). If he comes >back with more than one, I'll let you know. >royce in SB Royce, Cheap is relative of course, but I recently checked on a local price for a good brand "turbo-torch" type set and I was surprised to find the price has risen to well over $200.00, $245 for this one. The Goss set I mentioned I bought about three years ago on an unadvertised "one-day" sale at $125 down from a list of $165. I got lucky, I walked into the welding supply looking to buy on that "one day." If you were to look I'll bet Northen Tool or Harbor Freight or some such will have imported knock-offs for considerably less that would last for a boiler or two, if you weren't immolated upon lightup. :-) Regards, Harry
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Hi Michael. Since I borrowed mine, I'm not sure where you would get one. But I would guess that you would get one at a welding supply store. It looks like an acetylene torch but with only ONE hose (the air is mixed in at the nozzle, just like a propane torch). And the tank is usually a refillable system whereby you take your tank in and they give you another tank that is full (after you give them $28 for the acetylene). The regulator/hose/torch is switched from tank to tank as they are emptied. I don't know how long they lasts, but I expect there's alot of acetylene in them. Someone recently told me that these systems are cheap and available (torch/hose/regulator). If he comes back with more than one, I'll let you know. royce in SB mdenning wrote: OK, what is and where do you get a Turbo Torch? Thanks Michael Florida USA
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Royce, Absolutely post a picture please. And you're right about Mike Martin's photography. Just don't drool on the keyboard. It makes a mess. Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Shyvers wrote: Royce, You won't make it to the Summer Steamup? Arrgh! I know, I know. But if I don't spend some time with my honey, there'll be hell to pay. (it's our anniversary that weekend). And since my loco's not done, at least I'll be able to spend some of the time it would take to get to Sacramento, the steamup, and return to actually work on it. And Michael Martin always does such a great job of photo coverage, I'll just have to drool at my monitor. But next year I'll have something to run. When will we all get to see your boiler/waterpump/loco creation? Well, if you're that interested, I can post a picture. royce in SB -- Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://shopnow.netscape.com/
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
At 08:25 PM 7/7/03 -0400, you wrote: >OK, what is and where do you get a Turbo Torch? >Thanks >Michael Michael, Visit your local professional plumbing and/or welding supply house and ask what they have in an air/propane torch kits. Most of them will have only one, or maybe two, options and they'll be hanging on the wall for quick access for walk-in traffic. Or visit the net. Do NOT say Gimme-that-one to the counter man without first asking price (unless you don't care about price) as prices vary considerably between mfgs and between suppliers, but sets for general plumbing (and small boiler) use are now in the $200 range (tank not included). The particular brand I have is Goss, which is a cut above the usual plumbers set, but which I found on sale at a cut below the average. Sievert, which Mike and others have, is a name that gets bandied about a lot in this discussion but Sievert is in a different (higher) class and we don't have an exact match for it here in the US. Regards, Harry
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
OK, what is and where do you get a Turbo Torch? Thanks Michael Florida USA Iron Nut - Original Message - From: "Steve Shyvers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:13 PM Subject: Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel > Royce, > > You won't make it to the Summer Steamup? Arrgh! When will we all get to > see your boiler/waterpump/loco creation? > > Steve > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Hi Michael. Thanks for your input. I have heard many times of the > > appropriateness of the Sievert system, but I just didn't want to go to > > the expense right now. A friend had this turbo torch and assured me > > that it would do the job of silver soldering my little boiler. He was > > right. Worked like a charm. I also used it to solder up my water > > pump over the weekend. It has a big chunk of brass (5/8" x 3/4" x 2 > > 1/4") penetrated by a 3/8" dia x 2" long rod. Alot of mass by my > > standards (with the exception of the boiler). Turbo torch brings it > > up to temp quickly (but I STILL used two torches). > > > > I'm gonna miss you guys at the steamup. So take lotsa pics. > > > > royce in SB > > > > Michael Martin wrote: > > > >> Hi Royce, > >> > >> Enough propane burned per unit-time is one answer. I have the > >> Sievert propane > >> setup and am very satisfied with its ability to bring large copper > >> assemblies > >> (Gauge 1 boilers, etc.) to silver soldering temperature (1145'F for > >> easyflow 45) > >> in a short enough time that the flux is not saturated with oxides. > >> One of the > >> interchangeable burner tips is rated at 80,000 BTU/hr. It will empty > >> the 20# > >> propane bottle in a hurry and makes a wonderful howl doing so! Seems > >> appropriate for the 4th of July weekend. > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. > Experience the convenience of buying online with [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://shopnow.netscape.com/ > >
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Steve Shyvers wrote: Royce, You won't make it to the Summer Steamup? Arrgh! I know, I know. But if I don't spend some time with my honey, there'll be hell to pay. (it's our anniversary that weekend). And since my loco's not done, at least I'll be able to spend some of the time it would take to get to Sacramento, the steamup, and return to actually work on it. And Michael Martin always does such a great job of photo coverage, I'll just have to drool at my monitor. But next year I'll have something to run. When will we all get to see your boiler/waterpump/loco creation? Well, if you're that interested, I can post a picture. royce in SB
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Royce, You won't make it to the Summer Steamup? Arrgh! When will we all get to see your boiler/waterpump/loco creation? Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Michael. Thanks for your input. I have heard many times of the appropriateness of the Sievert system, but I just didn't want to go to the expense right now. A friend had this turbo torch and assured me that it would do the job of silver soldering my little boiler. He was right. Worked like a charm. I also used it to solder up my water pump over the weekend. It has a big chunk of brass (5/8" x 3/4" x 2 1/4") penetrated by a 3/8" dia x 2" long rod. Alot of mass by my standards (with the exception of the boiler). Turbo torch brings it up to temp quickly (but I STILL used two torches). I'm gonna miss you guys at the steamup. So take lotsa pics. royce in SB Michael Martin wrote: Hi Royce, Enough propane burned per unit-time is one answer. I have the Sievert propane setup and am very satisfied with its ability to bring large copper assemblies (Gauge 1 boilers, etc.) to silver soldering temperature (1145'F for easyflow 45) in a short enough time that the flux is not saturated with oxides. One of the interchangeable burner tips is rated at 80,000 BTU/hr. It will empty the 20# propane bottle in a hurry and makes a wonderful howl doing so! Seems appropriate for the 4th of July weekend. Mike -- Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://shopnow.netscape.com/
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Mike Chaney wrote: I don't understand the problem. Hi Mike. thanks for responding. I don't know that there IS a problem. I seem to remember seeing or reading something somewhere that indicated silver soldering stainless steel was more problematic than other metals. So I thought I would ask before re-inventing the wheel, as it were. I'm glad that for our purposes, there does not seem to be a problem with it. royce in SB
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Harry Wade wrote: At 10:44 AM 7/6/03 -0700, you wrote: (snip) But I'm having a hard time visualizing how one could solder a boiler WITHOUT using more than propane (even MAPP gas) as a heat source. royce Royce, That's probably because it can't be done, Thanks for verifying my notion. Given the right delivery system and volume, an air/cow-farts torch would melt copper. Now you've done it. A discussion of the heat content of methane vs propane vs acetylene is sure to follow. : ) The real problem, of course, is the gas collection system. Don't even want to visualize it. royce in SB
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Hi Michael. Thanks for your input. I have heard many times of the appropriateness of the Sievert system, but I just didn't want to go to the expense right now. A friend had this turbo torch and assured me that it would do the job of silver soldering my little boiler. He was right. Worked like a charm. I also used it to solder up my water pump over the weekend. It has a big chunk of brass (5/8" x 3/4" x 2 1/4") penetrated by a 3/8" dia x 2" long rod. Alot of mass by my standards (with the exception of the boiler). Turbo torch brings it up to temp quickly (but I STILL used two torches). I'm gonna miss you guys at the steamup. So take lotsa pics. royce in SB Michael Martin wrote: Hi Royce, Enough propane burned per unit-time is one answer. I have the Sievert propane setup and am very satisfied with its ability to bring large copper assemblies (Gauge 1 boilers, etc.) to silver soldering temperature (1145'F for easyflow 45) in a short enough time that the flux is not saturated with oxides. One of the interchangeable burner tips is rated at 80,000 BTU/hr. It will empty the 20# propane bottle in a hurry and makes a wonderful howl doing so! Seems appropriate for the 4th of July weekend. Mike
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Oxy/acetylene is also a heck of a lot cleaner, especially when used in my "home" shop as compared to a my commercial shop. The O/A is a little trickier to adjust when you start out, but not having that dense black cloud of soot is worth the extra effort. It also seems like the joints are cleaner too. Keep your steam up! Walt
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
In a message dated 7/6/03 12:46:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I don't understand the problem. >> Mike, Actually, I was reflecting more when I built armatures for puppets in the movie industry when I answered Royce. I always had to solder brass balls to the ends of stainless rod for the puppet joints. If I put too much flux into the hole in the ball, it would just push it off the rod. It didn't take me long, tho, to figure out an adjustable jig to overcome the problem. There were times that the joint would look perfect and the damn ball would just fall off! I use a minature oxy-acetelene for most all of my work. I like it for the ability to weld in minature. Bob
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
I don't understand the problem. Whenever I have to solder SS, I just do it. The solder flows just the same as with brass, copper, steel, etc. and makes a perfect joint. Maybe it's because I use Johnson Matthey "Easiflo 2" and its complementary flux. I suspect it's really a bit of a "bumblebee" - scientists have proved that the wing area/weight ratio of the bumblebee is such that it cannot possibly fly. The bumblebee, being a simple soul, just gets on with the business of flying. I just get on with soldering. (:>) Mike
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
At 10:44 AM 7/6/03 -0700, you wrote: >(snip) But I'm having a hard time >visualizing how one could solder a boiler WITHOUT using more than >propane (even MAPP gas) as a heat source. >royce Royce, That's probably because it can't be done, at least if using a single typical hand-held propane or MAPP DIY-type torch on a typical 2" diamater boiler shell (min Type L) with 1/16" heads. But it's not the gas it's the delivery systen that makes the difference. A regulated air/propane or air/MAPP turbo-type plumber's torch (which you apparently have) will easily do the the job. Given the right delivery system and volume, an air/cow-farts torch would melt copper. Regards, Harry
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Hi Royce, Enough propane burned per unit-time is one answer. I have the Sievert propane setup and am very satisfied with its ability to bring large copper assemblies (Gauge 1 boilers, etc.) to silver soldering temperature (1145'F for easyflow 45) in a short enough time that the flux is not saturated with oxides. One of the interchangeable burner tips is rated at 80,000 BTU/hr. It will empty the 20# propane bottle in a hurry and makes a wonderful howl doing so! Seems appropriate for the 4th of July weekend. Mike
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Royce, It seems that cleanliness is, as always, the most important thing with this material. Yes I use the black flux which is intended for stainless After posting my question, I saw on the black flux directions that it is intended for silver soldering stainless (as well as other metals). Have not yet tried it. The parts are fairly small so I'm not anticipating heating problems. By the way, I've been using a turbo torch (acetylene only, no oxygen) to silver solder my boiler. Have not had any trouble (that I can tell) OVERheating parts. But I'm having a hard time visualizing how one could solder a boiler WITHOUT using more than propane (even MAPP gas) as a heat source. I'm getting pretty good at two fisted (MAPP in one hand, acetylene in the other) silver soldering. ; ) All I can recommend is to not overheat the stainless, it quickly gets a firescale coat that will not allow the solder to flow. As in all hard soldering techniques you should try and bring the pieces to be joined to the same temperature as evenly as possible. Sometimes that certainly means concentrating your heat on the largest object and allowing that piece to heat the smaller. Bob Thanks for your input. Hi to Jackie royce
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Hi Royce, I, personally, have trouble often with soldering stainless too. I assume that your are intending to hard solder it. It seems that cleanliness is, as always, the most important thing with this material. I have never had any success unless I use the black flux which is intended for stainless and is rated at the highest heat. All I can recommend is to not overheat the stainless, it quickly gets a firescale coat that will not allow the solder to flow. As in all hard soldering techniques you should try and bring the pieces to be joined to the same temperature as evenly as possible. Sometimes that certainly means concentrating your heat on the largest object and allowing that piece to heat the smaller. Bob
Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel
Check out silver solder (braze). There is a specific silver content and associted fulx thatwill bond stainless steel. On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 07:18:55 -0700, Royce Woodbury wrote: ->Hope all of you are enjoying the holiday. But since I'm taking a moment ->to work on my water pump, I thought I would ask whether anyone has any ->advice on silversolding stainless steel. -> ->Thanks, -> ->royce in SB ->
