RE: of question

[Greg.Reddin]

> What exactly does the  tag of the  tag in
> the struts-config file do.  My understanding is that it can 
> pass or set
> properties within the corresponding  tag class?
> 

The  tag allows you to set extra properties on a subclass of 
FormPropertyConfig.  It does not set "sub-properties" on the specified property.  It 
basically allows you to extend the form property configuration.

There should be several messages in the archive addressing the thing you're trying to 
do.  I would probably use a plugin to load the list from the database and poke it into 
servlet context.  Then your form could pull the list from servlet context and set a 
reference to it.  Perhaps there are better ways.

Greg

> Here is a scenario that I am not sure Struts can do? The thought is to
> have struts dynamically populate a dropdown menu from a specified
> datasource and using a DynaActionForm.  Please correct me if I am
> mistaken.
> 
> On a jsp page there is a form with 1 dropdown menu element 
> (simple form
> for brevity sake). You have a DynaActionForm to mirror jsp 
> form.  It is
> configured in struts-config as follows:
> 
> 
>  type="MyDropDownList">
>  value="SomeDataSource" />
> 
> 
> 
> You also have a MyDropDownList object that looks like
> 
> 
> public class MyDropDownList extends java.util.List
> {
> private String listSource = ""; 
> 
> public void setListSource(String listSource)
> {
> ...Some code
> }
> 
> public String getListSource()
> {
> ...Some code
> }
> 
> public void populateList()
> {
> ... code to get the list values from the specified list source
> 
> 
> } 
> }
> 
> In the jsp page:
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Is this correct?  Can this be donw?  Is ther another better way of
> accomplishing this?
> 
> Dave Patton
> 
> 

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RE: Can this kind of code work?

[Greg.Reddin]

I think I see what you're trying to do:  It looks like you want to keep track of what 
menu item is highlighted.I don't think this information should be pushed down to 
the action layer.  I would use a Tile to render the menu, and perhaps a Tiles 
controller to determine which item is highlighted.  One way to do it would be to pass 
a request parameter noting an index of the menu item that was clicked.  Then the Tiles 
controller could look at that parameter to highlight the correct one.

Greg


> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Ashley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:46 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Can this kind of code work?
> 
> 
> I like to add dynamically key-value pair properties in my Struts 
> application. I have tried code below, but with no success...
> Are there any (or other way) to make this kind of code to work.
> 
> Br
> 
> ..
> 
> public ActionForward execute(ActionMapping mapping, ActionForm form, 
> javax.servlet.http.HttpServletRequest request,
> javax.servlet.http.HttpServletResponse response)
> {
>ActionForward af;
>// Fetching parameters with key from collection.
>// Key to item is what mapping.getPath returns.
>MenuHighlightItem menuItem = MenuParameters.getItemInfo
>(mapping.getPath());
>// Parameters found, let's add them to request.
>if(menuItem != null)
>{
>   if(menuItem.getData().length() != 0)
>   {
>  path += "&";
>  path += URLEncoder.encode("selected_leftbanner");
>  path += "=";
>  path += URLEncoder.encode(menuItem.getData());
>   }
>}
> 
>try
>{
>   if(menuItem != null)
>   {
>af = super.execute(mapping, form, request, response);
>af.setPath(path);
>   }
>   else
>   {
>   return super.execute(mapping, form, request, response);
>   }
> }
> catch(Exception ex)
> {
>   af = null;
> }
> return af;
> }
> 

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RE: how old is struts

[Greg.Reddin]

> Are you sure? I am sure I recall a mention of a Struts 0.50 in the 
> some time during the winter 2000/2001.
> 

Yeah, I could've sworn that I found out about Struts from a collegue who attended a 
BOF at the 2000 JavaOne conference.  We started using it within a month from that.  
Maybe it was 2001, but I'm pretty sure it was 2000.

Greg

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RE: how do people work in project with one server for development

[Greg.Reddin]

We still use Tomcat on our dev boxes because it's free and easy.  We integrate nightly 
to whatever containers we need for production.  I think an iterative process like that 
is much better than forcing the production environment on developers.  If the 
integration is done nightly problems can be resolved quickly.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: Dmitri Ilyin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:39 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: how do people work in project with one server for
> development
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> we have one instalation of Weblogic on the server, but every 
> developer have
> it's own start script with different port. So we start 
> several instances of
> the server, that listens on defferent port but run on one machine.
> 
> Dmitri
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ashish Kulkarni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 4:33 PM
> Subject: how do people work in project with one server for development
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > This question is related to how to share one instance
> > of application server, We used to use tomcat for our
> > web development, so it was easy all the developers had
> > tomcat on there machine, and then they can check out
> > the source from VSS, modify test it on there machine
> > and put it back,
> > And one fine day we would freee the code and test it
> > together and release it,
> > But now we are moving to websphere, and it is not
> > possible to have each one one copy to play with on his
> > machine
> > So if i want to restart the server, it will affect
> > others, even if i modify one class it will affect
> > others
> > So does anyone has this kind of siutation and how do u
> > people deal with it
> > Ashish
> >
> > =
> > A$HI$H
> >
> > __
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >
> > 
> -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -
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> 

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RE: Dynaactionform

[Greg.Reddin]

> Sorry but getting a Map or parameters and generating a query 
> string is 
> plain enough without sending code.. Or do you sit around all day 
> writing myForm.get("somevalue") all day.. are the life of 
> rielly huh.. 
> perhaps i should return to academia :)
> 
> In trogloditian terms
> 
> Map formMap = (Map) myform
> 

Wow, I'm not real sure how to take that statement, so I'll assume it was not meant to 
sound like it does, but the reason that code doesn't work is because ActionForm is not 
a Map.  Naturally, one would expect that code to throw a ClassCastException.

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RE: Dynaactionform

[Greg.Reddin]

Not sure how I missed the getMap() method in the API.  That makes the advice given 
below seem rather ridiculous...

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: Reddin, Greg 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 10:48 AM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: Dynaactionform
> 
> 
> You could do something like this:
> 
>   DynaActionForm dynaForm = (DynaActionForm) form;
>   DynaProperty[] properties = form.getDynaClass().getDynaProperties();
>   for (int i = 0; i < properties.length; i++){
> DynaProperty property = properties[i];
> // do whatever you need to do with property name and value.
>   }
> 
> ...but use with care...  There could be security and other 
> concerns.  There's probably better ways to do it.
> 
> Greg
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mark Lowe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 10:32 AM
> > To: Struts List
> > Subject: Dynaactionform
> > 
> > 
> > Hello
> > 
> > 
> > I've a DynamicAction form and i need to generate an sql insert 
> > statement from the properties and values contained within the 
> > aforementioned form...
> > 
> > I usually generate my sql from such things by casting to a map but 
> > ActionForms don't seem to like this..
> > 
> > thanks in advance mark
> > 
> > 
> > 
> -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > 
> 

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RE: Dynaactionform

[Greg.Reddin]

You could do something like this:

  DynaActionForm dynaForm = (DynaActionForm) form;
  DynaProperty[] properties = form.getDynaClass().getDynaProperties();
  for (int i = 0; i < properties.length; i++){
DynaProperty property = properties[i];
// do whatever you need to do with property name and value.
  }

...but use with care...  There could be security and other concerns.  There's probably 
better ways to do it.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Lowe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 10:32 AM
> To: Struts List
> Subject: Dynaactionform
> 
> 
> Hello
> 
> 
> I've a DynamicAction form and i need to generate an sql insert 
> statement from the properties and values contained within the 
> aforementioned form...
> 
> I usually generate my sql from such things by casting to a map but 
> ActionForms don't seem to like this..
> 
> thanks in advance mark
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 
> 

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RE: design question about action chaining

[Greg.Reddin]

Thanks, Ted, for clarifying these issues for me.

> -Original Message-
> From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 11:06 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: design question about action chaining
> 
> 
> In Patterns of Enterprise Application Architecture [1], Martin Fowler
> [2] lays out two basic patterns for handling business logic [3].
> 
> * Transaction Script - "Organizes business logic by procedures where
> each procedure handles a single request from the presentation.
> 
> * Domain Model - "An object model of the domain that incorporates both
> behavior and data."
> 
> The Struts MailReader example uses the Transaction Script 
> pattern. This
> is a fine way to go for simple applications. I used it myself in my
> first significant Struts application (an online auction), 
> still do, and
> probably always will. It's simple and efficient, and when the logic is
> not complex, does the job quite well, thank you.
> 
> The Artimus example [4] from Struts in Action uses the domain model.
> Here a stub Action is used to call a domain object. The domain object
> does all of the processing for this transaction and returns a 
> response.
> The stub Action analyzes the domain's response and bundles everything
> into a HTTP response.
> 
> The Artimus example is not so complex that it really needs to 
> use Domain
> Model, but I wanted it to contrast the MailReader example.
> 
> My second significant Struts application was a telemarketing and
> inventory manager for the first auction application. Here, 
> the logic is
> sometimes quite complex, and I *do* need to use the domain model.
> Compared to the public auction application, there's an extra layer of
> indirection, but it can do ~whatever~ I need it to do.
> 
> It's my belief that when people start to chain Actions, they 
> are trying
> to move from a Transaction Script to a Domain Model. Problem is, they
> are trying to do it with Struts Actions rather than POJO's (Plain Old
> Java Objects).
> 
> There are several problems with using Struts Action classes as Domain
> Objects:
> 
> * First, you must embed complex business logic inside of a HTTP
> presentation tier class. As long you use Struts and nothing 
> but Struts,
> this is not necessarily a problem. But you never know what nutty idea
> the suits will have next =:0)
> 
> * Second, the Action interface is not designed so that one Action can
> call another. In more complicated applications, use-case "C" 
> is really a
> combination of cases "A" and "B". With Actions, to get to C, 
> you need to
> forward through A and B (hence the "chain"). With POJO, C can cleanly
> call A and B and return the result. The presentation tier 
> doesn't know,
> or need to know, that C is a combination of A and B. Such "chains of
> responsibility" are the concern of application controllers, but should
> not be delegated to a presentation tier controller, like Struts.
> 
> * Third, Struts Test Case [5] makes testing Struts actions relatively
> simple, but the tests are still more complicated that testing POJOs
> alone. With PODOs (Plain Old Domain Objects), you can have 
> two layers of
> tests: a pure TestCase against the business logic, and a 
> Struts TestCase
> against the interaction between the business layer and the 
> presentation
> layer.
> 
> It's my thinking that you should be able to look at any given
> ActionMapping and say "this uses Transaction Script" or "this uses
> Domain Model". If you can't, then I would suggest that you may be
> letting the tail wag the dog =:0)
> 
> Struts uses a number of very excellent patterns. I am 
> continually amazed
> at how well it all fits together. The trick is to use the 
> same patterns
> in your enterprise architecture. The "dark side" is letting Struts
> ~become~ your enterprise architecture. Faster yes, better no.
> 
> -Ted.
> 
> Resources
> -
> 
> [1] Patterns of Enterprise Application Architecture
> 

[2] Martin Fowler also wrote "Refactoring", among others. He is
definitely one of our favorite ~non-fiction~ authors.

[3] Business logic - An oxymoron akin to "military intelligence".
Business logic is whatever nutty stuff the client wants to do with the
data that we have so carefully obtained, stored, and retrieved (using
system logic). Sadly, implementing the business logic is what they
actually ~pay~ us to do, rather than the other interesting stuff that we
enjoy doing on the way. (The voyage is the reward.)

[4] Artimus CVS


[5] My new best friend 


-- 
Ted Husted, Struts in Action 


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RE: Question about ActionErrors &

[Greg.Reddin]

Do you have the "errors.header" and "errors.footer" properties in your 
ApplicationResources.properties file?  I don't believe they are required, but it's 
something to look at.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: Ali Khan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 4:18 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Question about ActionErrors & 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> have made an simple struts-application. I got one problem.
> 
> That is when my actionerrors are shown generated with 
> , 
> it shows null in start and in the end of the error-messages. Don't 
> understand why the null's occur ? It shows like this:
> 
> null Definition not filled
> Paymenttype not filled
> null
> -
> 
> Here is my code:
> ---
> In ActionForm:
>   public ActionErrors validate(ActionMapping mapping,
>  HttpServletRequest request) {
> ActionErrors errors = new ActionErrors();
> 
> if(paymenttype == null || "".equals(paymenttype)){
> errors.add("paymenttype",new 
> ActionError("errors.typename"));
> }
> 
> if(definition == null || "".equals(definition)){
> errors.add("definition",new 
> ActionError("errors.comment"));
> }
> return errors;
> }
> ---
> In ApplicationResources.properties:
> errors.typename=Definition not filled
> errors.comment=Paymenttype not filled
> -
> In web.xml:
> ...
> ...
> 
>  application
>  ApplicationResources
>
> ...
> .
> 
> All help appreciated.
> Thanx.
> 
> 
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RE: design question about action chainning(As quoted in :Struts in action...by Ted Husted et al..)

[Greg.Reddin]

Ted, can you (or someone else) clarify the difference b/t "action chaining" and 
"action relay"?

Thanks,
Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:34 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: design question about action chainning(As quoted 
> in :Struts
> in action...by Ted Husted et al..)
> 
> 
> Derek Richardson writes:
> 
>  >But you still have to duplicate code in the actions, right? Even if
>  >that code is as simple as:
>  >
>  >Service service = Service.getService(SERVICE_KEY);
>  >Foo[] foos = service.getFoos();
>  >request.setAttribute(FOO_KEY, foos);
>  >
>  >Action chaining allows this code to be written once and used many 
>  >times. Thus you get reuse of presentation code, not just business
>  >logic.
> 
> Personally, I would put utility code like this in a super 
> class and make 
> it available to whatever Action wanted to call it. Actions are 
> instantiated once, and there is no performance penalty for 
> have a deep 
> hierarchy.
> 
> So there would be something like
> 
> setService(request)
> 
> that any Action could call.
> 
> The BaseAction in Scaffold makes good use of this technique for error 
> handling and such.
> 
> What happens with true Action chaining (not to be confused 
> with a simple 
> Action relay) is that instead of using Java calls to create our 
> presentation API, we start to use HTTP to make the API calls instead. 
> IMHO, this is a step backward. The point of Struts is to get 
> us up and 
> out of HTTP and into an object-orientated domain, where we can write 
> proper programs. (Rather than an endless chain of kludges.)
> 
> -Ted.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ted Husted,
> Struts in Action 
> 
> 
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RE: design question about action chainning(As quoted in :Struts in action...by Ted Husted et al..)

[Greg.Reddin]

You've stated it correctly when you said that Actions are your flow controllers.  In 
the case of your login/getAccounts example, you should have a business object that 
handles login, and a business object that gets accounts.  You would then have a login 
action (use case controller) that would use both business objects, assuming the login 
was successful.  You would also have a displayAccounts action (use case controller) 
that uses the accounts business object very similar to the way the login action uses 
it.

So, my understanding is that the Actions you define are your use case controllers.  
They basically give you all the options you have with your application, but the logic 
of the application itself resides in the business objects.  You may have lots of 
actins with some repeated code in a few, or you may be able to define just a few 
"parameterized" actions that handle all your use cases somewhat generically.

Now, the case you've defined is that the outcome of one use case causes another use 
case to be executed.  While I probably wouldn't check for a login that way, I'm not 
yet convinced that the approach itself is inherently bad.  

BTW, I don't see actions as "handling errors" so much as responding to them, and 
acting as an adapter layer between your application's error handling and Struts.  You 
should probably have some error-handling mechanism in your business layer and the 
Action classes will interpret what comes out of the business layer and translate it 
into Struts errors.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 4:34 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: design question about action chainning(As quoted in 
> :Struts in
> action...by Ted Husted et al..)
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> I have a very basic design question about struts action 
> design..We have been 
> developing a fairly large and complex web application 
> involving struts and 
> struts has proved to be a great help :-))  But after reading 
> the book by Mr. 
> Husted et al., "Struts in action",I have some basic questions 
> about the way we 
> have done our project and the way it is described in the book.
> TO quote Mr. Husted...(Section 8.4 Chaining Actions .Note at 
> the end of 
> Section8.4.1. Starting fresh..)
> 
> Speaking  as a Software architect,chainning actions in any 
> way is not something 
> that I like to do.Ideally you should be able to call the 
> business objects from 
> any Action where they are needed.Wanting to forward control 
> to another action 
> implies that the Business  object my be too tightly 
> coupled.Or it may imply 
> that the actions should descend from a common super class 
> with hotspots that 
> sub classes should overrideThere are occasions when 
> chainning actions makes 
> sense-for example if the other action is being used to render 
> the response in 
> lieu of a presentation page.But valid use cases are rare.The 
> best general 
> practice is to stay with one-request ,one action regimen.
> *
> 
> 
> And also after searching the  archives for action chainnign , 
> I found another 
> reply from Mr. Husted which says..
> 
> Wanting to chain actions is a warning sign that there is too 
> much business 
> logic is creeping into the Actions and they are becoming the 
> API, rather than 
> an adaptor for the API. (Struts should not *be* your 
> application, it should be 
> a gateway *to* your application.)
> **
> **
> *
> 
> 
> I have a high regard for Mr. Ted Husted and that's why I 
> would like to clarify 
> some of my doubts about the design strategy he has advocated 
> in his book from 
> the exüperienced users of this list and Mr Husted himself if possible.
> I dont understand what is the disadvantage in Chainning 
> actions?HAs it some 
> thing to do with performance?I totally agree that the 
> business objects shuld 
> not be tightly coupled with actions and should be callable 
> from any where .But 
> even after following this principal, most of the time you 
> will end up chainning 
> actions if u really want reusable actions.Example can be 
> loging process of a 
> user.So the request for loging form a user can result in 2 
> actions being 
> called.1:CheckLogin(which checks user credentials) It 
> forwards control to 
> 2:getUserAccountList which gets the list of accounts for the user. 
> 
> So now the getUserAccountList  action I can call from any 
> where else by passing 
> right params and it becomes reusable.But if i had done all of 
> this(check log in 
> and then get accunts)in login action, i need to write another 
> action to get 
> account for another page.And I am using calls to different 
> services(Lo

RE: Struts officially supported at Ford

[Greg.Reddin]

Joe, how many people do you have on your development team for this project and how 
long has it taken to develop it?

Thanks,
Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:53 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Struts officially supported at Ford
> 
> 
> We use Struts for a full-blown "inward-facing" web 
> application, and it works great in all respects.  Last time I 
> checked, we had over 700 classes in our web tier alone 
> (Actions, ActionForms, helpers, tags, etc.), and over 600 
> JSPs.  I don't even want to think about what a cluster-f$%k 
> that would be without Struts.  We have had less problems with 
> Struts than pretty much any other layer/technology/software 
> we employ, and that includes Tomcat and JBoss.
> 
> If you find a better web MVC model, by all means use 
> itand tell me about it!
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 1:58 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: Struts officially supported at Ford
> > 
> > 
> > > Estimate the cost of doing 
> > > it yourself and 
> > > present the numbers to management.
> > > 
> > 
> > The problem is "we've already got one, you see..."  However, 
> > it pretty much sucks compared to Struts and would cost 
> > millions of dollars just to get it where Struts is right now 
> > -- and we'd never really get it to that point anyway.  It's 
> > not been very difficult to make that case.  It's just a 
> > matter of whether the guys w/ the cash will see it the way we 
> > do.  I think it's all a moot point right now b/c the decision 
> > has all but been made.  I get the feeling I'll not be leaving 
> > this list anytime soon...
> > 
> > Greg
> > 
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> > 
> > For additional commands, e-mail: 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
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RE: Struts officially supported at Ford

[Greg.Reddin]

> Estimate the cost of doing 
> it yourself and 
> present the numbers to management.
> 

The problem is "we've already got one, you see..."  However, it pretty much sucks 
compared to Struts and would cost millions of dollars just to get it where Struts is 
right now -- and we'd never really get it to that point anyway.  It's not been very 
difficult to make that case.  It's just a matter of whether the guys w/ the cash will 
see it the way we do.  I think it's all a moot point right now b/c the decision has 
all but been made.  I get the feeling I'll not be leaving this list anytime soon...

Greg

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RE: Struts officially supported at Ford

[Greg.Reddin]

> Struts is a framework which facilitates
> the building of browser-based applications 
>

Oh, I totally agree.  The "service" app concept was defined as needing to maintain 
state for multiple instances of business objects and respond to events, like a 
customer call in a call center app, working a work queue, etc.  To me Struts handles 
that fine.  You would build in the infrastructure that was needed in the model layer.

But, most people on the list speak of developing "sites".  I wondered how many are 
actually developing the inward-facing apps as opposed to customer-facing.

Greg


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RE: Struts officially supported at Ford

[Greg.Reddin]

Since we're on the subject  What kind of applications are being built using 
Struts?  We're one of those "big" companies where many folks would rather roll our 
own.  One of the defenses is that Struts was designed for "web sites" not "servicing 
apps".  Now I know that statement holds no merit, but it would be nice to have some 
validations.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 2:35 PM
> To: 'Hajratwala, Nayan (N.) '; ''Struts Users Mailing List' '
> Subject: RE: Struts officially supported at Ford
> 
> 
> No, actually apache and apache tomcat will be deployed as 
> well.  That's a
> part of the whole Linux deployment strategy as well.  We are 
> now working on
> the global load to deploy both.
> 
> Ilya
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Hajratwala, Nayan (N.)
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Sent: 1/23/03 12:01 PM
> Subject: RE: Struts officially supported at Ford
> 
> Yes, my understanding is that Solaris is out the door and 
> Linux/Intel is
> in for new stuff.  I believe that WebSphere 5.0 will only be 
> deployed on
> Linux here, so teams that want to upgrade will have to migrate from
> Solaris --> Linux
> 
> ---
> - Nayan Hajratwala
> - Chikli Consulting LLC
> - http://www.chikli.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 1:32 PM
> To: 'Mark Lepkowski '; 'Struts Users Mailing List '
> Subject: RE: Struts officially supported at Ford
> 
> 
> Hmmm, great.  I'm a consultant for Ford, they taken a clear 
> Open Source
> initiative last year.  They are also implementing Linux and other Open
> Source technologies.
> 
> Ilya
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Lepkowski
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Sent: 1/23/03 11:16 AM
> Subject: Re: Struts officially supported at Ford
> 
> I didn't read anything in the quote the mentioned v1.1b2.  It 
> sounds to
> me like maybe IBM has tailored whatever beta version they started with
> to the point where they want their developers to use that as their
> common base.  
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Karr, David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 1:08 PM
> Subject: RE: Struts officially supported at Ford
> 
> 
> > It's certainly good that they're using 1.1, but somewhat unfortunate
> > that they stopped at b2.  
> (snip)
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Hajratwala, Nayan (N.) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:59 AM
> > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> > Subject: Struts officially supported at Ford
> > 
> 
> (snip)
> 
> > 
> > The Ford Servlet Framework is a packaged version of Struts 1.1
> provided
> > by and supported by IBM. This download includes Struts 
> provided by IBM
> > with some custom integration of the other Frameworks and services
> > provided by the Java COE. The Java COE will only be supporting the
> > versions of Struts downloaded from here. Application teams 
> should NOT
> be
> > downloading Struts from the Jakarta website but are 
> encouraged to use
> > the website for learning and documentation.
> > 
> > 
> (snip)
> 
> 
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Struts Productivity Revisited

[Greg.Reddin]

Thanks to everyone who answered my infromal survey the other day.  Your answers did 
not *necessarily* answer my questions, but did give me some very valuable information 
on what it takes to help others get up to speed on Struts.  Here are some followup 
questions. 

1)  How much infrastructure did you have to write to implement your application in 
Struts?  Did you use Scaffold or other packages?  Did you use Struts out of the box 
(or more appropriately, "off the web") with no enhancements?

2)  How much learning curve overhead was associated with that extra infrastructure 
(ex.  if it took someone a month to get up to speed on Struts, how much of that time 
was spent learning the extra infrastructure)?

Thanks,
Greg

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RE: Un Subscribe

[Greg.Reddin]

Uhh... I'm not 30 yet...

> -Original Message-
> From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 9:55 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Un Subscribe
> 
> 
> That was a very bad pun, and requires all users to be over 30. ;-)
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 4:27 PM
> Subject: RE: Un Subscribe
> 
> 
> You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave...
> 
> > --
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> > 
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > 
> >
> >
> 
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RE: Un Subscribe

[Greg.Reddin]

You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave...

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RE: It lives....

[Greg.Reddin]

I never thought I'd say this, but it's good to hear from ya... :-)

> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 10:36 AM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: It lives
> 
> 
> Hey guys!  Been away from the list for awhile.  Got sick of 
> working in a
> warehouse after the water main break on the 
> T-Mobile/VoiceStream project and
> split.  Now I'm the Senior Applications Engineer for QAT 
> (www.qat.com) doing
> systems integration using BizFlo (www.handysoft.com) and Java 
> web services.
> What an opportunity to spread the Struts faith!  I see the 
> list is as active
> as ever - been subscribed for 10 minutes and got 15 msgs
> 
> BTW: That was a pretty funny ACK in "Programming Jakarta 
> Struts," Chuck!  It
> was truly my pleasure to help.  I got Ted's book, too 
> ("Struts in Action"),
> and it is a good one!  Both are much better than "Mastering 
> Jakarta Struts,"
> though that's not to say the latter is bad
> 
> So, when's the next release, and did anybody ever get this 
> stuff to run with
> Flash???
> 
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
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RE: Struts Productivity Survey

[Greg.Reddin]

Well, the question was somewhat, but not entirely hypothetical.  The 50 is probably 
more like 30.  The problem is really another "my framework is better than yours" 
debate and we're pushing to use a Struts-based framework going forward instead of a 
home-grown.  One of my tasks is to quantify how long it will take developers to get up 
to speed on Struts to estimate the cost of moving over.

I learned Java, JSP/Servlets, and Struts pretty much all at the same time, and it 
clicked easily for me.  But I learn new things easily and am not intimidated by new 
things.  Others seem to have had varying levels of difficulty picking it up.  The team 
that I worked on back then had little trouble with it.

> -Original Message-
> From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:04 AM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: Struts Productivity Survey
> 
> 
> Greg, 
> 
> Wow, I don't envy your assignment.  There is one thing that I 
> have learned
> over the years as both a developer and project manager, 
> people learn at
> different rates, and pick up new skills very differently.
> 
> In the case of the people who only know C++, the transition 
> to Java will not
> be difficult.  If they have had no exposure to HTML and web 
> development,
> then the transition to JSP's will take them a little longer.  
> I've know some
> really good low level C++ programmers who just cannot get the 
> hang of HTML,
> much less the tag library underlying struts.  These guys are 
> better suited
> for the server side and EJB side of development.
> 
> As for the VB programmer, your job is going to much more 
> difficult.  Many of
> the VB programmers I have meet over the past 2 years have had 
> no exposure or
> training in Object Oriented Programming (OO).  Many have 
> moved to VB from
> mainframe jobs that they started back in the 70's and 80's.  
> For those on
> your staff who have had exposure to C++ in college, the move 
> to Java will
> probably be easier than for those on your staff you have come from a
> mainframe background.
> 
> As to Struts, JSP's and the tag libraries.  You are looking 
> at training
> these people in ALL three of these concepts/technology.  I 
> would strongly
> suggest that you start out your training class in JSP's using 
> the Model 1
> concept the first few days, and then introduce Struts and the JSP tag
> libraries for the duration of the training course.
> 
> In all, my experience in training people in a combination of 
> on the job and
> classes has been as follows:
> 
> For those with heavy C++ experience, moving to 
> Java/JSP/Servlets/HMTL took
> about month before these people were productive.
> 
> For those with some exposure to C++ and OO, but no work 
> experience, it took
> about 2 months for these people to be productive.
> 
> For those with no exposure to C++ and OO (mainframe 
> background), it took
> anywhere from 4 months to 9 months before these people were 
> really useful
> and productive in the work environment.  A lot depended on 
> the attitude of
> the person, and their willingness to learn new programming 
> skills AND new
> programming/software concepts, particularly OO.  If you can 
> get over the
> hurdle of the OO concepts, then you are 2/3 of the way there.
> 
> If you add struts and HTML to the equation, I would add an 
> extra 2 to 4
> weeks, before the staff is really productive and useful in the work
> environment.  
> 
> Keep in mind again that people learn at different rates, and 
> that they learn
> in different ways.  The approach you take to exposing and 
> training these
> people may not work for the entire group, and you may need to 
> take extra
> time and try different approaches with some in the group.
> 
> Good luck, this is one assignment that I don't envy you on.  
> 
> Celeste
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 9:40 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Struts Productivity Survey
> 
> 
> Ok, so let me pose it a different way.  Put yourself in this position:
> 
> You're a consultant or an architect who has been tasked with 
> building a
> Struts application with 100 screens.  You're actually migrating an
> application which was originally written as a fat client app 
> in VB and the
> server was written in C++.
> 
> You have about 50 developers who know VB and C++ pretty well. 
>  Some of them
> know Java/JSP/Servlets very well.  Some of them know it very 
> little.  None
> of them know Struts.
> 
> Your job is to estimate the cost of getting these folks up to speed on
> Struts.  You already have the application design.  THere's 
> going to be a
> thin business layer called by the Action classes that will 
> use EJB session
> beans to provide application functionality.  Fairly simple.  
> You have to
> train these people to use Struts, create actions and pages, 
> and write the
> web-tier business layer.  Somebo

RE: Struts Productivity Survey

[Greg.Reddin]

Ok, so let me pose it a different way.  Put yourself in this position:

You're a consultant or an architect who has been tasked with building a Struts 
application with 100 screens.  You're actually migrating an application which was 
originally written as a fat client app in VB and the server was written in C++.

You have about 50 developers who know VB and C++ pretty well.  Some of them know 
Java/JSP/Servlets very well.  Some of them know it very little.  None of them know 
Struts.

Your job is to estimate the cost of getting these folks up to speed on Struts.  You 
already have the application design.  THere's going to be a thin business layer called 
by the Action classes that will use EJB session beans to provide application 
functionality.  Fairly simple.  You have to train these people to use Struts, create 
actions and pages, and write the web-tier business layer.  Somebody else is doing the 
EJB stuff.

How do you estimate that cost?
How long do you think it will take for these various developers to write their first 
business function?
How long to do the next one, etc?

> -Original Message-
> From: Andreas Mack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 12:34 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Struts Productivity Survey
> 
> 
> On Fri, 2003-01-10 at 07:57, Rick Reumann wrote:
> 
> > easier. I think it's really going be difficult to get an 
> accurate feel
> > for how long it takes people to get 'up to speed' with 
> struts since I
> > think it's much easier now for new developers to learn 
> struts simply due
> > to the books and better documentation available.
> 
> I agree 100%. I looked at Struts for the first time in April 
> 2001 mainly
> for the forms stuff, really wanting to use it. I've read the UserGuide
> and said "What is he talking about!?" Half a year later, with a real
> project at hand it went much faster, using the /example stuff. Back
> then there were no DynaForms, no Tiles, no Nested, all the stuff that
> makes things much easier now. The pages that are now the Taglib API
> Reference were the best resources back then.
> 
> Greets,
> Andreas.
> 
> -- 
> Andreas Mack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> mediales. GmbH
> 
> 
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RE: Struts Productivity Survey

[Greg.Reddin]

Good point.  I agree.

> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Reumann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 12:58 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Struts Productivity Survey
> 
> 
> The problem with this survey is that the results you would 
> get would not
> be accurate for assessing the time it would take new 
> developers to catch
> on to using Struts at the present time. There is now a lot more
> documentation and examples out there to learn from than there was just
> six months ago. My biggest frustration in the beginning was 
> the lack of
> examples and cohesive documentation of how all the different 
> pieces fit
> together. Most of the learning took place by digging into the examples
> that come with struts and those on Ted's site and then asking 
> questions.
> Now, however, there are several great books out there( Chucks, Ted's,
> etc.) and had I had them when I first started life would have 
> been much
> easier. I think it's really going be difficult to get an accurate feel
> for how long it takes people to get 'up to speed' with struts since I
> think it's much easier now for new developers to learn struts 
> simply due
> to the books and better documentation available.
> 
>  On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:20:00 -0600 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I am conducting an informal survey to determine how difficult it is
> > for new developers with differing skills becomve productive with
> > Struts.  This really only applies to those using 1.1x.  
> Anyone who is
> > willing, please answer the following questions:
> >  
> > 1.  How long did it take you to get the Struts Framework up and
> > running for the first time? 2.  How long did it take you to get your
> > first business component going in the Struts Framework 
> (this involves
> > Action class, page, business objects, etc. from start to 
> completion.)
> > 3.  Would you describe your Software Development experience as a)
> > novice, b) advanced, or c) expert? 4.  Would you describe your Java
> > competencies as a) novice, b) advanced, or c) expert? 5.  Would you
> > describe your J2EE/servlet/JSP competencies as a) novice, 
> b) advanced,
> > or c) expert? 6.  What was the hardest part about learning 
> Struts for
> > you?
> >  
> > Thanks.  If the response is interesting I'll compile it and post it
> > back to the list. Greg
> 
> 
> -- 
> Rick
> 
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Struts Productivity Survey

[Greg.Reddin]

I am conducting an informal survey to determine how difficult it is for new developers 
with differing skills becomve productive with Struts.  This really only applies to 
those using 1.1x.  Anyone who is willing, please answer the following questions:
 
1.  How long did it take you to get the Struts Framework up and running for the first 
time?
2.  How long did it take you to get your first business component going in the Struts 
Framework (this involves Action class, page, business objects, etc. from start to 
completion.)
3.  Would you describe your Software Development experience as a) novice, b) advanced, 
or c) expert?
4.  Would you describe your Java competencies as a) novice, b) advanced, or c) expert?
5.  Would you describe your J2EE/servlet/JSP competencies as a) novice, b) advanced, 
or c) expert?
6.  What was the hardest part about learning Struts for you?
 
Thanks.  If the response is interesting I'll compile it and post it back to the list.
Greg

RE: [OT] HAPPY HOLIDAYS, EVERYONE

[Greg.Reddin]

+1 on that!!

> -Original Message-
> From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:41 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [OT] HAPPY HOLIDAYS, EVERYONE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, James Mitchell wrote:
> 
> > +1
> >
> > 
> > ...and a very Merry Christmas to you (if you believe in that sort of
> > thing).
> > 
> 
> 
> Let us all spend some time this joyous season reflecting on 
> the magnitude
> of a God that would bother to create the likes of us, and His 
> willingness
> to sacrifice a Son to maintain a relationship with all the idiots and
> dirtbags we have to deal with every day (including ourselves :-).
> Without Christ, there's nothing particularly interesting 
> about Christmas,
> except for a determined marketing campaign by all the stores 
> to imply how
> inadequate we are if we don't spend lots of money giving each 
> other gifts.
> Oh, and a guilt trip to care about the needs of others for a couple of
> weeks every year, instead of all the time ...
> 
> If all you care about during this season is excuses to party, 
> New Year's
> Eve will suffice for that :-).
> 
> 
> > James Mitchell
> 
> Craig McClanahan (unashamedly wishing everyone a Merry Christmas!)
> 
> 
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RE: Problem with simple welcome.jsp page

[Greg.Reddin]

Also compare the modified date of your file with the one your container has compiled.  
If your modified date is older than the one Tomcat is using, Tomcat will not recompile 
it -- assuming you're using Tomcat.  Not sure how other containers behave.  +1 on the 
delete idea.  That's usually what I do.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:15 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: Problem with simple welcome.jsp page
> 
> 
> I've had those same problems in the past.
> 
> Here's how I troubleshoot it.
> 
> 1. Browser
>  Make sure that the browser isn't caching the page.
>  Verify your settings, and if still in doubt, close the 
> browser and open
> a new one.
> 
> 2. Container
>  Is the container re-compiling the jsp?
>  Check the settings in the config files.
>  In Tomcat, you can also just delete the directories where they are
> compiled.
> 
> For me:
>  
>  $TOMCAT_HOME/work/Standalone/localhost/whatever-app
> 
> 
> That might not be the official way of doing it, but it works for me.
> 
> --
> James Mitchell
> Software Engineer/Open Source Evangelist
> http://www.open-tools.org
> 
> "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it 
> harder, but
> when you do, it blows away your whole leg." 
> - Bjarne Stroustrup
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:21 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Problem with simple welcome.jsp page
> > 
> > 
> > I'm having a problem displaying the page.  I'm using the 
> > logon example from the "Struts in Action" book, but 
> > substituted the .jsp pages with my own versions.  Now, before 
> > I did the substitutions, it displayed the default welcome 
> > page, provided with example, when I substituted with my own and
> > **even** restarted the server, which is not needed of course, 
> > I continue getting the old version of the page, instead of 
> > the new one?
> > 
> > Does anyone know why this is happening?  I know I'm working 
> > with the right file, because if I delete Wecome.jsp, I get an 
> > error that the page is not found.
> > 
> > Please, please help:-)
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > Ilya
> > 
> > --
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> > additional commands, 
> > e-mail: 
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> > 
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RE: no getter method for property phoneList

[Greg.Reddin]

Here's some questions:

1) If you reverse the order of the iterate tags, iterating over phoneList first and 
addressList second, do you get the same results?  

2) Does the address information render correctly if you comment out the phoneList 
info?  

3) Do you get the same error if you comment out the addressList iteration and do only 
the phoneList iteration?

Maybe you should post the entire JSP or at least more of it.  Is there something 
happening to the party bean between the two iterate tags?

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:18 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: no getter method for property phoneList
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting desperate with my problem.
> 
> I have a very simple class named Party defined as
> 
> public class Party() {
> 
>  public Party()
> 
>  ArrayList phoneList_ = new ArrayList();
>  ArrayList addressList_ = new ArrayList();
> 
>  public ArrayList getPhoneList() {
> 
>   return phoneList_;
> 
>  }
> 
>  public void setPhoneList(ArrayList list) {
> 
>   phoneList_ = list;
> 
>  }
> 
>  public ArrayList getAddressList() {
> 
>   return addressList_;
> 
>  }
> 
>  public void setAddressList(ArrayList list) {
> 
>   addressList_ = list;
> 
>  }
> 
> }
> 
> 
> When I do a logic:iterate to iterate on both lists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iterating on addressList is fine
> 
> However I get a
> 
> : No getter method for property phoneList of bean party
> 
> I'm using VaJava 4.0 and I;ve checked everything and can't 
> find anything wrong with my classes.
> 
> Has anybody encountered and solved this problem before?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Raffy
> **
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RE: [Tiles] definitionsFactory problem

[Greg.Reddin]

> Take a look the controllerClass attribute of the definition 
> element in the
> tiles config.  It allows you to specify a controller class of 
> type package
> org.apache.struts.tiles.Controller.  This class is executed 
> before the tile
> it is associated with is rendered and can be used to 
> dynamically alter the
> component context.
> 

I've thought about this approach and I think it is actually a better approach than 
using ActionForward properties to modify things at runtime.  However, it wouldn't help 
in the case I was working on.  I've gotten it to work by extending ActionForward and 
TilesRequestProcessor, but I can't say for sure that my enhancement adds any real 
value.

However, it does seem like there would be valid reasons to use properties from an 
ActionForward when forwarding to a Tiles definition, and the way TilesRequestProcessor 
is currently written, it's a little hokey to extend it that way.  But, that's a 
discussion for the dev list.

> I personally would prefer something a little more 
> declarative, something
> similar to Cocoon's Selectors.
> 
> So you could do something like the following
> 
>  
>  
> 
>  
>  
>  
>   
>   
> 

I've considered this type of thing as well and I think it would be very useful.  I'm 
glad I'm not the only one who has thought of it.

Greg

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[Tiles] definitionsFactory problem

[Greg.Reddin]

I'm not sure if this is a user problem or a dev problem or something that should 
eventually be submitted as a bug.  Let me know if it should really be posted to the 
dev list.

Here's what I'm trying to do:  I want to be able to parameterize Tiles definitions 
with values set in an ActionForward.  This allows us to customize a Tiles definition 
with specific properties for an action without extending a Tiles definition.  
Eventually we could even use it to customize the definition with runtime properties if 
we so desired.  Consider the following template def.


  
  
  


To customize this definition to display a customer page we have to do this:


  


This is fine, except when you have a large application with over 100 screens or so.  
Then it would be nice if developers could have just one Tiles definition as outlined 
in the main.template definition above and write action forwards like this:


  


I've gotten this to work by extending and hacking up TilesRequestProcessor.  But it 
would be much easier if TilesRequestProcessor was written a little differently.  I 
came up with two major drawbacks with TilesRequestProcessor.  They are:

1)  definitionsFactory is private.  To extend TilesRequestProcessor, I have to 
override all (both) methods that use definitionsFactory and create my own instance of 
it.  Wouldn't have to do that if the factory was protected.

2)  processTilesDefinition() does not have access to the ForwardConfig to get 
properties off of it.

So, before I post this to the dev list or create an enhancement request, I thought I'd 
ask here:

1.  Is there something I missed in the design for making definitionsFactory private?  
Is there a good reason for this that I missed or was it just an oversight to make it 
private when TilesRequestProcessor was created?

2.  Is there a reason the ForwardConfig is not passed into processDefinitionsFactory?  
If the interface was changed to pass this object in, one could override it to take 
advantage of custom ActionForward properties.

3.  Is there some reason why I shouldn't be doing what I'm trying to do or is there a 
better approach?

Thanks,
Greg

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RE: JDBC development

[Greg.Reddin]

> ... quarks and bugs ... 
>

Somebody's been watching too much Deep Space Nine...


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RE: Re[2]: Struts design: All actions in one ActionClass

[Greg.Reddin]

Well, I guess I'll have to look into the "DispatchAction" thing.  I've not heard of it 
before today.  It sounds real similar to what we're doing.

> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Reumann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:29 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re[2]: Struts design: All actions in one ActionClass
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, December 11, 2002, 4:16:31 PM, Rob wrote:
> 
> RL> One of the developers that took over the project merged a 
> number of  the 
> RL> actions
> RL> edit, delete, create, list into one big ugly mess.
> 
> Was this all being done a 'normal' action class or a
> DispatchAction class? I think a DispatchAction class that handles
> these three related operations in one class is actually very clean
> and easy to maintain.  I could totally see the problem if it was
> all trying to be done from a typical action within a standard
> execute or perform method.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Rick
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> --
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> 

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RE: Struts design: All actions in one ActionClass

[Greg.Reddin]

Just for a different perspective...

If we took that approach we could conceivably have hundreds of actions that looked 
almost identical except for the value of a few variables.  So, we're building a model 
layer that creates and invokes components in a standardized way.  So, (when it's all 
built) we will write hundreds of components with "little nuggets" of business logic to 
a standard interface and we'll have a couple of generic actions that perform commands 
on those components based on parameters in the request or settings in ActionMappings.

If there are special cases where the controller logic for a component is just too 
complex, we'll write more actions.  Or, if another application would use the 
components differently, they can create more actions.  But for our application, this 
approach greatly increases productivity and eases maintenance b/c there is less code 
to write.

Now, the drawback is that it looks a lot like EJB, except that the "container" is a 
single broker or factory class.  But the advantage is that our developers can focus 
their attention on the business logic, focusing less attention on who called me or 
where do I go next.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 2:09 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Struts design: All actions in one ActionClass
> 
> 
> I apply this theory to jsps as well. Each JSP displays one 
> thing; otherwise, 
> you'll end up with something resembling a perl script with a 
> bunch of if 
> statements.  This allows you to reuse the jsp in other places 
> that need that 
> same view (or tile).
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "Jordan Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: Struts design: All actions in one ActionClass
> >Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:43:51 +0100
> >
> >Does this also count for the JSP's? It would seem that it 
> would be better 
> >to
> >reuse the JSp's where possible which seems possible.
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Wednesday, 11 December 2002 7:27 PM
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: Struts design: All actions in one ActionClass
> >
> >
> >Definitely b.  It will be far easier to maintain.  If you're 
> worried about
> >having a lot of actions you can look at DispatchAction or 
> using DynaBeans.
> >
> >David
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Jordan Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: "Struts-User" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: Struts design: All actions in one ActionClass
> > >Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 19:05:36 +0100
> > >
> > >Hi,
> > >
> > >What is the best way to design my application? Is it better to
> > >
> > >a) Put all my actions for a particluar area (i.e. 
> creating, editing and
> > >deleting user accounts) in one Action class
> > >
> > >or
> > >
> > >b) Use a seperate action class for every action in my application
> > >
> > >or
> > >
> > >c) Put all of the actions for a particular workflow in a 
> single Action
> > >class.
> > >
> > >I am looking to have an application that is easy to maintain and 
> >flexible.
> > >Suggestions/Advice would be most appreciated.
> > >
> > >thanks
> > >
> > >Jordan
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > >
> > >For additional commands, e-mail:
> > >
> >
> >
> >_
> >Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
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RE: [J2EE] Does struts follow Sun's Core J2EE patterns

[Greg.Reddin]

Sun's J2EE Blueprints book lists Struts as one of three "frameworks of
particular interest" when discussing web-tier frameworks.  Struts is
mentioned second.  The first one mentioned is the "J2EE BluePrints Web
Application Framework (WAF)", which "forms the infrastructure of the
sample application."  If you read the description of this framework it
sounds *a lot* like Struts, conceptually.  In fact, I read somwhere a
year or so ago (JavaPro maybe?) that Struts was going to be integrated
into the Blueprints.  I don't know if that meant WAF would be based on
Struts or what.

At any rate, there's no basis for claims that Struts does not follow
Sun's J2EE paterns.  It's listed as a "Model" framework in their
blueprints book.

Your friend is right that building a controller is not that difficult,
but it's even less difficult to just use one that's already built.
Plus, it lessens much of the desire to keep adding useless features to
the one you build.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Reumann [mailto:maillist@;reumann.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:14 PM
> To: Struts List
> Subject: [J2EE] Does struts follow Sun's Core J2EE patterns
> 
> 
> Over lunch I was discussing struts with someone that works at another
> company. He hasn't implemented struts at all but only has looked at
> some articles, and doesn't see what all they 'hype' is about. In his
> opinion, building a j2ee controller that follow's Sun's J2EE pattern
> is not that difficult and using the JSTL he feels more comfortable
> using for the view (than say struts tags). He also still questions if
> it follows Sun's core J2EE patterns.
> 
> I actually explained what I thought most impressive is how the
> controller relates to taking in an ActionForm. He feels this breaks
> Sun's standard (although I'm not sure why.. time was short).
> 
> Does anyone have comments or links to articles where Struts is
> supported by those that came up with Sun's J2EE pattern? I've been
> searching Google but it's really hard to get a foothold on the best/
> most pertinent stuff.
> 
> Thanks for any information anyone could provide.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Rick
> mailto:maillist@;reumann.net
> 
> 
> --
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RE: Can't find my classes.

[Greg.Reddin]

> Here's an interesting twist. When you type the ".do" URL for 
> this form into the browser (i.e. 
> http://localhost/yourapp/Logon.do) The page will load and you 
> will be able to log in (at least it works for me). Of course, 
> when the page comes up you'll get validation errors on the 
> logon page saying that you need to enter a user name and 
> password, since you bypassed the Logon.jsp and went directly 
> to "Logon.do".
> 

This is actually the recommended approach.  It is usually better to go
through the controller first and let it dictate the page to invoke.  In
fact there's notes all through the doc and the list that you should do
this if you're using sub-apps under 1.1.  I would do it regardless.  It
ensures that everything is "initialized" before point to your page and
allows you to change things without having to change any hard coded
links.  

Greg

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RE: Struts 1.1 Release

[Greg.Reddin]

> but I want to emphasize the fact that 1.0 based apps should 
> generally run fine in 1.1 unless you're doing some really intricate
things.
>

That's a good point.  You'd hate to imply to 1.0.2 users that their
stuff won't run on the next version.

> For future versions of Struts, I'd likely support the x.y.z style that
> Tomcat 4.1 (and Apache httpd server releases) use, where you do a
> milestone with no "implied quality" label at all, and it's 
> then assigned an "alpha", "beta", or "general availability" label 
> after the fact, based on feedback.  
>

I see a lot of value in this approach.  It sort of avoids the whole
issue that "beta" seems to mean something different with open source, or
at least Apache products than it does with commercial stuff.

Greg

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RE: Struts 1.1 Release

[Greg.Reddin]

> Really 1.1 is so much better then 1.02 that you should be calling it
2.0 
> when it is released (and the current beta releases should be something

> like 1.99)
>

Of course Java is at 1.4.1.  How similar is 1.4 to 1.0?  And why do they
call 1.2+ "Java 2"?  Why didn't they just call it Java 2.0?  Will there
ever be a Java 2.0 or will it just go to 1.100?  Coming from a Microsoft
background (and finally seeing the light), I'm not familiar with the
strange versioning strategy in the Java Community and it's always
baffled me.  At our company we release a new major version every year
whether we need to or not.  I'm working to evangelize things like Struts
and open source in general, and part of that may be trying to change the
perception of release names, and words like "beta".

Greg


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RE: Can't find my classes.

[Greg.Reddin]

Hmm, could it be an Orion problem?  I just took some time and recreated
the web application you describe using the code you posted and it works
fine under Tomcat 4.0.4.  I'm also using Struts 1.1b2.  Are you using
1.0.x?  I noticed that you're using the deprecated perform() method.
Not sure if that would be at issue or not especially since you're not
even hitting the controller in the scenario you described.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: Gekka [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:55 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Can't find my classes.
> 
> 
> Yeah, I've got the example apps running. Didn't have a default
> constructor, but it didn't help after I added one.
> 
> The code for my LogonForm is:
> 
> ---
> 
> package form;
> 
> import org.apache.struts.action.*;
> import javax.servlet.http.*;
> import java.util.Date;
> 
> public class LogonForm extends ActionForm {
>   
>   private String userName;
>   private String password;
>   
>   public LogonForm() {
>   }
> 
>   public String getPassword() {
>   return password;
>   }
> 
>   public String getUserName() {
>   return userName;
>   }
> 
>   public void setPassword(String password) {
>   this.password = password;
>   }
> 
>   public void setUserName(String userName) {
>   this.userName = userName;
>   }
> }
> 
> -
> 
> And my LogonAction:
> 
> -
> 
> package action;
> 
> import org.apache.struts.action.*;
> import javax.servlet.http.*;
> import java.sql.SQLException;
> import form.*;
> import beans.*;
> 
> public class LogonAction extends Action {
>   
>   public ActionForward perform(ActionMapping mapping, 
> ActionForm form,
> HttpServletRequest request, HttpServletResponse response) {
>   LogonForm tmpForm = (LogonForm)form;
>   String username = tmpForm.getUserName();
>   String password = tmpForm.getPassword();
>   if(username == null || password == null)
>   return mapping.findForward("failure");
>   User user = new User();
>   try {
>   user.authenticate(username, password);
>   }
>   catch(SQLException sqle) {
>   return mapping.findForward("failure");
>   }
>   if(user != null)
>   return mapping.findForward("succes");
>   else
>   return mapping.findForward("failure");
>   }
> }
> 
> 
> 
> And finally the jsp where I instantiate an object of type LogonForm to
> check that Orions classloader finds the class, and it works:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
>   Hei..
>   <% form.LogonForm usr = new form.LogonForm(); %>
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The rest of the files were posted on the last mail.
> 
> I'm really stuck here :(
> 
> Geir Morten Hagen
> 
> On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 15:50, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Does your LogonForm class have a default constructor?  
> Maybe you could
> > post the code for that.  I assume you've gotten the Struts 
> example apps
> > to run?
> > 
> > Greg
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Gekka [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 5:03 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Can't find my classes.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Good evening :)
> > > 
> > > I've just started with struts (not new to j2ee), and have 
> > > done a couple
> > > of tutorials on Struts and all works well. Then I made my 
> own small
> > > application, but that didn't work. Saw a similar post, but the
> > > recommendations there didn't work in my case.
> > > 
> > > Well, to get to the point, I'm running Orion 1.5.2 using 
> Java 1.4.1 on
> > > Mandrake Linux 9.0 (Kernel 2.4.19-13mdk). I've got a 
> form.LogonForm
> > > extending ActionForm, a action.LogonAction extending Action and a
> > > logon.jsp. The classes compiles fine but when I request 
> > > logon.jsp in my
> > > browser I get:
> > > 
> > > Exception--
> > > 
> > > javax.servlet.jsp.JspException: Exception creating bean of class
> > > form.LogonForm: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: form.LogonForm
> > >   at 
> > > org.apache.struts.taglib.html.FormTag.doStartTag(FormTag.java:568)
> > >   at /logon.jsp._jspService(/logon.jsp.java:135) (JSP 
> > > page line 13)
> > >   at com.orionserver[Orion/1.5.2 (build
> > > 10460)].http.OrionHttpJspPage.service(Unknown Source)
> > >   at com.evermind[Orion/1.5.2 (build 
> > > 10460)]._ah._rad(Unknown Source)
> > >   at com.evermind[Orion/1.5.2 (build
> > > 10460)].server.http.JSPServlet.service(Unknown Source)
> > >   at com.evermind[Orion/1.5.2 (build 
> > > 10460)]._cxb._abe(Unknown Source)
> > >   at co

RE: Can't find my classes.

[Greg.Reddin]

Does your LogonForm class have a default constructor?  Maybe you could
post the code for that.  I assume you've gotten the Struts example apps
to run?

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: Gekka [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 5:03 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Can't find my classes.
> 
> 
> Good evening :)
> 
> I've just started with struts (not new to j2ee), and have 
> done a couple
> of tutorials on Struts and all works well. Then I made my own small
> application, but that didn't work. Saw a similar post, but the
> recommendations there didn't work in my case.
> 
> Well, to get to the point, I'm running Orion 1.5.2 using Java 1.4.1 on
> Mandrake Linux 9.0 (Kernel 2.4.19-13mdk). I've got a form.LogonForm
> extending ActionForm, a action.LogonAction extending Action and a
> logon.jsp. The classes compiles fine but when I request 
> logon.jsp in my
> browser I get:
> 
> Exception--
> 
> javax.servlet.jsp.JspException: Exception creating bean of class
> form.LogonForm: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: form.LogonForm
>   at 
> org.apache.struts.taglib.html.FormTag.doStartTag(FormTag.java:568)
>   at /logon.jsp._jspService(/logon.jsp.java:135) (JSP 
> page line 13)
>   at com.orionserver[Orion/1.5.2 (build
> 10460)].http.OrionHttpJspPage.service(Unknown Source)
>   at com.evermind[Orion/1.5.2 (build 
> 10460)]._ah._rad(Unknown Source)
>   at com.evermind[Orion/1.5.2 (build
> 10460)].server.http.JSPServlet.service(Unknown Source)
>   at com.evermind[Orion/1.5.2 (build 
> 10460)]._cxb._abe(Unknown Source)
>   at com.evermind[Orion/1.5.2 (build 
> 10460)]._cxb._uec(Unknown Source)
>   at com.evermind[Orion/1.5.2 (build 
> 10460)]._io._twc(Unknown Source)
>   at com.evermind[Orion/1.5.2 (build 
> 10460)]._io._gc(Unknown Source)
>   at com.evermind[Orion/1.5.2 (build 
> 10460)]._if.run(Unknown Source)
> 
> Exception---
> 
> 
> The web-app structure is:
> 
> homepage/
>   - META-INF/
>   - application.xml (orion)
>   - 
>   - WEB-INF/
>   - classes/
>   - form/
>   - LogonForm.class
>   - action/
>   - LogonAction.class
>   - lib/
>   - struts.jar
>   logon.jsp
>   struts-*.tld
>   struts-config.xml
>   web.xml
> 
> 
> My struts-config.xml (important part):
> 
> 
> 
>   
>   
>   
> 
>   
>name="logonForm"
> scope="session" input="logon.jsp">
>   
>   
>   
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And my logon.jsp:
> 
>   
>   Username:   
>   Password:property="password"/>
> 
>   
> 
> 
> And the thing is, when I try to just instantiate an object of type
> form.LogonForm on a jsp page in the web-app, I don't get any
> ClassNotFoundExceptions?! So it seems to me that the servlet container
> finds the class, but the inner workings (yeah, I know, I 
> don't know alot
> about struts yet ;) doesn't find them.
> 
> Anyone know a way to fix this?
> 
> Geir Morten Hagen
> 
> 
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RE: DanaFormBean and Non Primative property type

[Greg.Reddin]

It looks like you're trying to code a class that would be used in a form
bean and accessed from your page.  You do that like this:

public class MyFormBean...
{
  private Duns duns;

  public Duns getDuns()
  {
return duns;
  }
}

public class Duns
{
  public Duns();
  public Duns(String value);
  public String toString();

  public getSomeValue()
  {
return someValue;
  }
}

On your jsp you would have:

  

Just make sure a valid Duns object will always be returned from form
bean's getDuns() method or you'll get exceptions.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: Dan Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:15 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: DanaFormBean and Non Primative property type
> 
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I am looking for way to code a custom property in a ActionForm
> 
> For example:
> 
>public class MyFormBean 
>{
> ..
> 
> public MyType getMyType() .
> }
> 
> If this is not a right place to ask for this kind of question
> then please drop this.
> 
> -D
> - Original Message -
> From: "Galbreath, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 8:51 AM
> Subject: RE: DanaFormBean and Non Primative property type
> 
> 
> > Dan,
> >
> > Are you asking how to code a standard JavaBean for use as 
> an ActionForm
> > object?
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dan Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 10:35 AM
> >
> > I was wrong, String is not a primative type.
> >
> > To make thing more clear, here is my class
> >
> > public class Duns
> > {
> >  public Duns();
> >  public Duns(String value);
> >  public String toString();
> >  }
> >
> > I hope this is clearer this time.
> >
> > -D
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Galbreath, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > > RU kidding?  You need more help than you can get here if 
> you think a
> > String
> > > is a primitive.  And what kind of question is this?  Are 
> we to, like,
> read
> > > your mind and "see" your code to guess whatever it is you 
> are trying to
> do
> > > in your classes?  Hey!  Even we are not that good.  But 
> so this post is
> > not
> > > totally bw wastage, here's a suggestion I hope you appreciate:
> > >
> > > http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
> > >
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Dan Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:39 PM
> > >
> > > Hi I would like to use DataFormBean with properties are
> > > not primative types like int, java.lang.String
> > >
> > > What are the requirements  to create a customized
> > > property type?
> > >
> > > For example,  I have a DUNS java class which is a
> > > specialized string.  What kind of methods in my DUNS 
> class that I need
> to
> > > implement to make DanaFormBean happy? (like toString, 
> DUNS(String init),
> > > etc??)
> > >
> > > Suggestions are greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > -Dan
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> 
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> 
> >
> 
> --
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> 
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RE: [FRIDAY] Tee Time

[Greg.Reddin]

> (likes the 19th the best)
> 

++1

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RE: SQL Query Builder [Off Topic]

[Greg.Reddin]

DBVisualizer?
> -Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 11:29 AM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: SQL Query Builder [Off Topic]
> 
> 
> yep - but I'd be willing to bet someone has written a Swing 
> query engine.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 12:10 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: SQL Query Builder [Off Topic]
> 
> 
> Isn't that only for Oracle?
> 
> I was hoping to find an Open Source Swing alternative myself.
> 
> 
> 
> James Mitchell
> Software Engineer\Struts Evangelist
> Struts-Atlanta, the "Open Minded Developer Network"
> http://www.open-tools.org/struts-atlanta
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 12:01 PM
> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: SQL Query Builder [Off Topic]
> >
> >
> > I use PL/SQL Developer 5.0.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 12:00 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: SQL Query Builder [Off Topic]
> >
> >
> > Well, I'm pretty proficient in sql.  But for extremely complex
> > queries that
> > require multiple outer joins (like more than 8 tables), I rely on
> > the visual
> > query building capabilities of Visual Interdev (ya ya ya M$ sucks).
> >
> > I'd love to hear about any open source project that can do 
> what Interdev
> > does:
> >
> > It gives you 4 panes.
> > 1. Tables
> > 2. Fields selected
> > 3. Sql used
> > 4. Results of query (if you run it)
> >
> > Truly wysiwyg, drop a new table in the table pane, and all panes are
> > updated.  Modify the sql pane and all the other panes are 
> updated as well.
> >
> > When you connect to an ODBC source (yes, this requires 
> ODBC, but the sql
> > generated works regardless) you can just drag in all the 
> tables you want.
> > Add filter params and order by, do grouping, sum, count, whatever.
> >
> > This also requires that you know your database 
> relationships (to a certain
> > extent).  Interdev will read the metadata off the 
> connection and do a best
> > guess based on
> >
> > The reason I use Interdev is that it creates the vendor specific
> > sql syntax,
> > which can be different for Oracle vs. DB2 vs. MySql
> >
> > Then I just copy from the sql pane into my application (be 
> it a resource
> > file or into the code) and I'm done.
> >
> >
> >
> > James Mitchell
> > Software Engineer\Struts Evangelist
> > Struts-Atlanta, the "Open Minded Developer Network"
> > http://www.open-tools.org/struts-atlanta
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Howard Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 11:15 AM
> > > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> > > Subject: SQL Query Builder [Off Topic]
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > This is completely off-topic, and I'm sorry in advance, but
> > this is where
> > > all the usefull people live!!!
> > >
> > > Has anybody come accross a SQL query builder, or even 
> query-by-example
> > > builder in java. That is something to visually put 
> together a query for
> > > non-sql-savy users. Its to live in a Struts application, 
> so must be
> > > Servlet/JSP/Applet based.
> > >
> > > Trying to save myself some work!!
> > >
> > > Howard Miller
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > 
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
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> > 
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > 
> >
> > --
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> 
> 
> 
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RE: Java Server Faces and Developer Life Comments

[Greg.Reddin]

I guess this thread is mostly dead , but I felt compelled to offer my
2c.

I recently had to do an analysis of development software I'm using for
my boss to ensure that our licenses are up to date and whatnot.  I was
blown away by the fact that there's not a single piece of software
critical to my development efforts that costs a dime.  All of the tools
and platforms I'm using for development, with the exception of Windows
2000 and Office 2000 are free.  Even the OS and Office software could be
free if I just took the time to switch.  

Granted our integration and deployment efforts are another story.  We
have to keep multiple OS's and app servers maintained to ensure our
deployment works, but when you think about some 100 - 150 developers
using a minimum $1000 - $2000 worth of software apiece that can all be
replaced with quality software that costs nothing -- that's a
significant cost savings.

Now, the other issue is the integrated "drag & drop" development that is
offered by MS.  I personally wouldn't mind having that although it's not
critical to me.  In fact there's nothing more frustrating than being
forced into workarounds because your tool doesn't give you low-level
access to code.  We used to do that crap in VB all the time.  I don't
know if .NET fixes that.  The integrated thing seems more than possible
for Java.  Somebody just needs to do it.  

For me, the power of choice and platform independence that is offered by
J2EE is worth the extra development effort it takes.  In fact, I don't
think we're expending any more effort with J2EE than we were with MS
development a couple of years ago.

Microsoft has always been good at taking someone else's idea and
marketing it for themselves.  I think .NET is the next iteration of that
taken from J2EE.  No doubt they'll be successful at it.  But I think and
hope that the Java community is large enough and strong enough to keep
them from dominating the market like they have in other areas.  If drag
and drop, point and click integrated development is the only advantage
they offer and it comes with the disadvantage of vendor lock-in, I'm
certainly not going to switch for that...

Greg


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RE: [VOTE] Should this list discontinue it's long,treasured heritage of "relaxed fridays"?

[Greg.Reddin]

>  Do you feel this list should discontinue it's long heritage 
> of "relaxed 
>  fridays"?
>  
>  (   )  Yes
>  ( X )  No
>  (   )  Hell No
> 

I almost voted for Pat Buchannon because of the "dis" in front of
"continue" :-)

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RE: How to connect a COM environment to struts ?

[Greg.Reddin]

> Is it also possible through this to do a file transfer bu your
knowledge
>
I don't know anything about that.

> Can you also send me a piece of your code as a reference
> 
The snippets I sent you in the last response should get you going on the
VB side.  I couldn't really send you any more of our VB code without
sending it all because some of the guys who wrote it like to do things
in the most complicated way possible :-).  And the web framework we used
in that project was not Struts, but somewhat similar to Struts.  If I
can find time later today, I'll try to throw together a simple example
of that using Struts, but I won't make promises.

Thanks,
Greg


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RE: How to connect a COM environment to struts ?

[Greg.Reddin]

So VB is your front end and you want it to connect to business logic in
Struts, right?

We've used a browser control with some success to do this sort of thing.
I think it ships with VB in the "Microsoft Internet Controls" package,
but I'm not real sure.  The variable is of type "SHDocVwCtl.WebBrowser".
Just place it on a VB form and you can use it to communicate with a web
server via HTTP.  The browser control has three events that our code
catches: CommandStateChange, DocumentComplete, and BeforeNavigate2.  It
has a lot of other events and methods on it.  You'd have to read the doc
b/c I'm not really sure what they are for.

At any rate, the way we're using it is to create the url, create the
HTTP Post request, create the headers and pass it into the control like
this:

   Dim Browser As WebBrowser
   Dim Url As String
   Dim PostData() As Byte
   Dim Headers As String

   Url = http://localhost/someapp/someaction.do
   
   PostData = "param1=value¶m2=value..." 

   ' not really sure what this line is for...
   PostData = StrConv(PostData, vbFromUnicode)

   Headers = "Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded" & vbCrLf
   
   Call Browser.Navigate(Url, 0, "", PostData, Headers)

After this you have two choices.  The browser control can either display
the HTML output or you can display the output in VB forms.

To accomplish the latter, you would have to make the browser control
invisible, and your JSP's would have to be written to produce XML
instead of HTML.  When the browser control returns from the web server,
you have access to the DOM by getting a reference to Browser.Document
(this is of type HtmlDocument).  So from that you can traverse the
response XML to get data to populate your VB form.  Of course you can
use Struts logic and bean tags to populate the XML in the JSP.  

There may be other (better) ways of doing this, but that's how we
achieved a similar effect.

HTH,
Greg



> -Original Message-
> From: Martin Kuypers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 2:39 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: How to connect a COM environment to struts ?
> 
> 
> Does anyone have an example how a visual basic program can 
> connect to a
> struts environment, because i have all the Bussines Logic in 
> a Struts MVC
> model and would not like to change it
> So if anyone has an example about a visual basic program 
> connecting to this
> world, then this would mean a big Help for me
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
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RE: DynaActionForm Advantages (A different approach)

[Greg.Reddin]

> The preferences for Strings in form beans is to deal with bad 
> user input
> (such as typing "1a3" into a text field destined to be an 
> integer).  Any
> solution that does not redisplay the bad data that the user 
> typed (just
> like every GUI program in the world does it) is not acceptable, IMHO.
> 
I completely agree.  It took me a while to come around to that, but I
now appreciate the value in the String-based approach.

> One approach to migrating the data out of the form bean and 
> into the model
> bean would be to grab all the properties out into a Map (perhaps by
> calling PropertyUtils.describe()) and then using
> BeanUtils.populate() to copy these values into your model 
> bean.  This will
> perform String->whatever conversions for you as it goes.
> 
I'll try this method.  It sounds interesting.

> I'd certainly be interested in seeing how you've approached this.
> 
I think I'm going to "Struts-ify" our pattern and see if I can get it to
work.  If so, I'll post it here for review.

Greg

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RE: DynaActionForm Advantages (A different approach)

[Greg.Reddin]

The PageField's internal storage is a simple String.  It could easily be
changed to anything else, though.  If the field maps to a model bean, it
handles nested and indexed properties the same way Struts does.  In fact
it uses BeanUtils and PropertyUtils.  If the field does not map to a
bean, it can only be a String, but this is just a design flaw.  After
sending that post, I decided to write an implementation that works with
Struts and post it for anyone who is interested.

> -Original Message-
> From: Dan Cancro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 12:33 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: DynaActionForm Advantages (A different approach)
> 
> 
> How does your PageField list handle iterative and nested 
> properties?  Can a
> PageField's value be a String array?
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 10:22 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: DynaActionForm Advantages (A different approach)
> > 
> > 
> > Something that has always bothered me in Struts is the "disconnect"
> > between Form Beans and Model Beans.  How many times do you 
> have a Form
> > Bean and a model bean that contain the same data?  The 
> > disconnect makes
> > some sense because you want everything that could come in from a JSP
> > page to be String-based, while you want the properties of your model
> > beans to be properly typed.  Plus there are often things on the Form
> > Bean that will not be in the model bean or will be represented
> > differently.  But I've found myself constantly trying to 
> find an easy
> > way to map the data from my form beans back to the model 
> > beans in Struts
> > without manually copying the data.  It appears DynaBeans 
> > don't fix this.
> > 
> > Our company has developed a framework loosely based on 
> > Struts, that has
> > a single component for storing page data and mapping it 
> back to model
> > beans.  Each JSP page has a bean that holds its data.  The data is
> > contained in a list of PageField objects.  The PageField has
> > getFieldValue() and setFieldValue() methods that return and 
> > take Strings
> > respectively.  The PageField also has a mapping that will map 
> > the field
> > back to a model bean, if desired.  The mapping is specified 
> in the JSP
> > tag.  Page data that is contained in a model bean is automatically
> > retrieved from and populated to the model bean by reflection. 
> >  Page data
> > that does not cleanly map back to the bean is kept in PageField's
> > internal storage.
> > 
> > This works great for us because we do not have to write 
> form beans for
> > every page.  Whatever beans we need to use are 
> automatically populated
> > by the framework.
> > 
> > Would something like this be useful to the Struts community?  
> > Do you see
> > issues with the approach?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Greg
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 11:47 AM
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: DynaActionForm Advantages
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, Glen Mazza wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:58:29 -0500 (CDT)
> > > > From: Glen Mazza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Subject: Re:  DynaActionForm Advantages
> > > >
> > > > > Fecha: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 23:37:03 -0400
> > > > > A: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > De: James Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Asunto: RE: DynaActionForm Advantages
> > > > >
> > > > > My two cents on the topic.
> > > > >
> > > > > As mentioned, once you move to a good Java IDE like
> > > > > JBuilder, writing
> > > > > getters and setters is no longer nearly the pain it
> > > > > used to be.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Correct--the ActionForm follows the standard JavaBeans
> > > > approach--reduced learning curve for newcomers, and
> > > > already generated by most IDE's.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > What bothers me about the DynaBean approach is that
> > > > > it's *yet another*
> > > > > file, and *yet another* level of indirection that
> > > > > obscure what's really
> > > > > going on.  I can look at an ActionForm, see all the
> > > > > properties, look at the
> > > > > validation, all in one step.  Making it a DynaBean
> > > > > form means having to
> > > > > maintain another file with the XML, always having to
> > > > > remember where it is, etc.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mostly agree.  It's not "yet another" file, because
> > > > DAF's were (I believe) originally designed to reduce
> > > > the number of ActionForms you'd have to implement.
> > > > I.e., if you don't have any special validation to do,
> > > > don't bother subclassing an ActionForm--just put the
> > > > variables in the struts-config and you're done.  Very
> > > > nice design.
> > > >
> > > > The problem was that the DAF c

RE: DynaActionForm Advantages (A different approach)

[Greg.Reddin]

Something that has always bothered me in Struts is the "disconnect"
between Form Beans and Model Beans.  How many times do you have a Form
Bean and a model bean that contain the same data?  The disconnect makes
some sense because you want everything that could come in from a JSP
page to be String-based, while you want the properties of your model
beans to be properly typed.  Plus there are often things on the Form
Bean that will not be in the model bean or will be represented
differently.  But I've found myself constantly trying to find an easy
way to map the data from my form beans back to the model beans in Struts
without manually copying the data.  It appears DynaBeans don't fix this.

Our company has developed a framework loosely based on Struts, that has
a single component for storing page data and mapping it back to model
beans.  Each JSP page has a bean that holds its data.  The data is
contained in a list of PageField objects.  The PageField has
getFieldValue() and setFieldValue() methods that return and take Strings
respectively.  The PageField also has a mapping that will map the field
back to a model bean, if desired.  The mapping is specified in the JSP
tag.  Page data that is contained in a model bean is automatically
retrieved from and populated to the model bean by reflection.  Page data
that does not cleanly map back to the bean is kept in PageField's
internal storage.

This works great for us because we do not have to write form beans for
every page.  Whatever beans we need to use are automatically populated
by the framework.

Would something like this be useful to the Struts community?  Do you see
issues with the approach?

Thanks,
Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 11:47 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: DynaActionForm Advantages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, Glen Mazza wrote:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:58:29 -0500 (CDT)
> > From: Glen Mazza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re:  DynaActionForm Advantages
> >
> > > Fecha: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 23:37:03 -0400
> > > A: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > De: James Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Asunto: RE: DynaActionForm Advantages
> > >
> > > My two cents on the topic.
> > >
> > > As mentioned, once you move to a good Java IDE like
> > > JBuilder, writing
> > > getters and setters is no longer nearly the pain it
> > > used to be.
> > >
> >
> > Correct--the ActionForm follows the standard JavaBeans
> > approach--reduced learning curve for newcomers, and
> > already generated by most IDE's.
> >
> >
> > > What bothers me about the DynaBean approach is that
> > > it's *yet another*
> > > file, and *yet another* level of indirection that
> > > obscure what's really
> > > going on.  I can look at an ActionForm, see all the
> > > properties, look at the
> > > validation, all in one step.  Making it a DynaBean
> > > form means having to
> > > maintain another file with the XML, always having to
> > > remember where it is, etc.
> > >
> >
> > Mostly agree.  It's not "yet another" file, because
> > DAF's were (I believe) originally designed to reduce
> > the number of ActionForms you'd have to implement.
> > I.e., if you don't have any special validation to do,
> > don't bother subclassing an ActionForm--just put the
> > variables in the struts-config and you're done.  Very
> > nice design.
> >
> > The problem was that the DAF class was not made final.
> >  Allowing it to be subclassed is creating the mess you
> > describe--the variables in the XML file and actions on
> > them in the DAF subclass.  (Another was writing about
> > putting member variable initializations in the
> > validate() function--the DAF subclass may also start
> > encouraging other messier programming habits.)
> >
> > As for those who don't like getter/setters and want to
> > use the common-beanutils "get" functions described by
> > Craig:  Might it have been better, in addition to
> > making the DAF class final,
> 
> Making DAF final would have prevented the use case where you want to
> subclass it for custom reset() or validate() methods.  This would have
> forced the use of two classes instead of one -- IMHO that 
> would have been
> more confusing, not less.
> 
> > to just have ActionForms
> > implement "get"'s interface? Just newbie thinking...
> 
> And the "set" methods also, I presume?  That's an interesting 
> idea -- then
> users of the form beans could always use get()/set() and not 
> care whether
> it was actually a DynaActionForm or not ...
> 
> >
> > Glen
> >
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
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RE: Session Management Methodology

[Greg.Reddin]

I think filters are the best way to handle redirection to a logon
screen, but that requires Servlet 2.3.  Otherwise you have to either
modify the ActionServlet to redirect before calling the Action or
ActionForm, or put code in the Action that checks for a valid login
before continuing.  I would much prefer to use filters over either of
these methods.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis Muhlestein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 2:20 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Session Management Methodology
> 
> 
> Using Struts 1.0.2
> 
> Some of my pages have ActionForms.
> Some only have Action Classes that do something.
> 
> Some have nothing but an action mapping in the config xml file.
> 
> Most of my pages however require a user to be logged in.  
> Before I used Struts, I put session management in a common servlet.
> That can still work with struts, but the problem is, ActionForms
> get called and instantiated before the request gets to the Servlet.
> 
> Is there a uniform place I could put session management that 
> would apply
> to the Action before the ActionForm was called.  I would like to have
> the user redireced to the login page first instead of after the
> ActionForm.  
> 
> Thanks
> Dennis

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RE: Please recommend a IDE

[Greg.Reddin]

Here's one a friend of mine is working on:
codeSlinger: http://www.codeslinger.org

> -Original Message-
> From: James Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 8:36 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Please recommend a IDE
> 
> 
> There are many good IDEs out there and the selection
> typically comes down to personal favorite.
> 
> The following IDEs are all supported by the Struts
> Console software and thus make Struts development
> easier:
> 
> + Borland JBuilder (www.borland.com)
> + NetBeans (www.netbeans.org)
> + Oracle JDeveloper (www.oracle.com)
> + Sun Forte (www.sun.com)
> 
> Struts Console:
> http://www.jamesholmes.com/struts/
> 
> -james
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> --- Chiming Huang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Can you please recommend a IDE for working on Tomcat
> > 4.0.3 + Struts 1.0.2 + Ant 1.4.1?  I am looking into
> > eclipse.  But I don't know how to configure it for
> > this purpose.
> > 
> > Thanks in advance for you help.
> > 
> > Chiming
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> 
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RE: html taglib usage slooow

[Greg.Reddin]

> Unfortunately, a profiler will not be an option here, so it 
> will have to be
> "System.currentTimeMillis()" placed throughout.
> 
I'd say that's acceptable.  We do some of that as well.


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RE: html taglib usage slooow

[Greg.Reddin]

Since this is your first Struts app, I suspect that you can't say for
sure how it will perform on Tomcat or any other container.  I'd suggest
that you find out what your exact requirements are and then figure out
what you'll need to properly address them.  Here's the approach I would
take:

1.  Gather requirements.  What are the reqs in your system for response
time, concurrent users, etc.
2.  Create a proof of concept.  Implement some of your application
components.  I'd go with a simple one (to make sure it works), a
"typical" one (to measure typical usage), and a complex one (to ensure
complex components can be created successfully).
3.  Test the proof of concept. Download every container you can get your
hands on and deploy the POC on each container on the same machine.
Measure it against JProbe or some profiler.  Even a home-grown profiler
can be useful.
4.  Publish the results.  How close can your POC come to meeting the
requirements on the test machine in each container?  How do they
compare?  What will have to be done to come closer to the requirements?
What hardware will be required?

It's not extremely difficult to get fairly accurate measurements and
determine what needs to be done to acheive performance goals.  But you
have to know what the goals are, and you have to test to determine how
to reach the goals.  I believe there's no excuse for getting to the end
of a project and realizing it doesn't perform.  It just doesn't take
*that* much effort to do it up front and regressively do it throughout
the process.

HTH,
Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 9:17 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: html taglib usage slooow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This topic comes up from time to time and it seems that I am 
> never happy with
> the solution(s).
> 
> There seems to be two main answers:
> 1 - do not use so many tags.
> 2 - find an Servlet Container  that will handle tags in a 
> speedy manner.
> 
> Have I missed any?
> 
> As for answer one
>  - I am currently beginning the design stage of a project 
> that will use struts (
> our first one) and am looking forward to finding tags that 
> clean up my code.
> I could probably get away with not using the bean write tags 
> for all my labels
> but I am experimenting with the format attribute for currency 
> and dates ect.
> It seems that fifty tags is a number that comes up from time to time.
> How does looping over tags factor into this?
> 
> As for answer two:
> - Craig mentioned in this post that the nightly build of 
> tomcat handles this
> much better.   The nightly build thing will be a tough sell 
> for me. Is there a
> particular production container that (at this time) is known 
> for it's efficient
> tag handling (code generation, pooling ect) ?
> 
> 
> Summary:
> We are doing an internal A/R application.  If you include 
> labels, it is not hard
> to exceed 50 tags.
> I would be disappointed to find out that I cannot make use of 
> the full power of
> Struts, and have to replace some tags with a scriplets.
> But at the same time I would like to know of some of these 
> issues that I might
> face.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Victor Hadianto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 05/21/2002 06:33:07 PM
> 
> Please respond to "Struts Users Mailing List" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> To:   "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> cc:
> 
> Subject:  Re: html taglib usage slooow
> 
> 
> On Wed, 22 May 2002 02:11, you wrote:
> > On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 12:01:06PM -0400, Galbreath, Mark wrote:
> > > Precompile the JSP.
> >
> > Have tried that, does not help. Even after compiling, it's 
> really slow.
> 
> This is not going to work .. read on .
> 
> >
> > It seems, the problem is within the taglib implementation - 
> either in the
> > appserver or within struts.
> >
> 
> Erich,
> 
> I have posted the similar issue weeks ago in the mailing 
> list. We too found
> that the use of html:taglibs are really slow. After running 
> the profiler we
> found that (in our case) the primary slowdown spot is the 
>  tag.
> We have hundreds of this tag in our page (it's a really 
> complex page I assure
> you).
> 
> Drilling down again to find the root cause I found the 
> problem was that
> bean:write tags call request.getLocale(). 
> request.getLocale(), for some
> reason we couldn't fathom, took ages to execute.
> 
> This is why, in our situation, that the rendering of the page takes in
> average 80% of the time, even longer than multiple server 
> roundtrips to the
> EJB server, action class logic and some other overheads.
> 
> grrr .
> 
> --
> Victor Hadianto
> 
> --
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RE: xml-xslt v jsp

[Greg.Reddin]

I aggree that it's very difficult to debug and is non-portable, but our
experience was that we could never find a server environment with
adequate performance.  The performance issue outweighed the portability
and support issues for us.  Of course, we're talking about an intranet
application where we had pretty good control over the browser
environment.  That's the only case I would recommend that.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 9:40 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: xml-xslt v jsp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Client-side is non-portable and leads to tailoring the app to 
> a particular
> browser-implementation. In addition, bugs are virtually impossible to
> recreate since you have no control over the client environment.
> 
> Keep it server-side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Tandon, Pankaj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 
> 05/14/2002 10:42:41 AM
> 
> Please respond to "Struts Users Mailing List"
>   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> To:   "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> cc:(bcc: Kevin Bedell/Systems/USHO/SunLife)
> Subject:  RE: xml-xslt v jsp
> 
> 
> Can you please explain WHY server side XSL transforms shd be more of a
> performance (resource) hog than client side?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 10:36 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: xml-xslt v jsp
> 
> 
> > isn't teaching a designer XSLT to modify a schema into
> > HTML easier than teaching them to not break your java
> > code inside of a jsp?
> >
> No, it's not.  XSLT *is* a programming language and you have to know
> XPath to really do anything practical with XSLT.  I would never try to
> teach designers XSLT (who define "programming" as doing cool 
> stuff with
> DHTML)  That is not to say that they are stupid.  They have their own
> area of expertise in an area in which I cannot perform.  XSLT 
> is geared
> to a programmer's mindset.  You have loops, conditionals, etc.  If
> designers ever look at source code, they will recognize Java 
> because it
> looks similar to JavaScript.  If they're not proficient with it, they
> will leave it alone.  XSLT will be a whole new world for them.
> 
> Now, I would argue that if you have Java code in your JSP, you should
> try to get it out using tags.  The cases when Java code is in the JSP
> should be rare.  A well-designed tag library will be much easier to
> train designers to work around than XSLT.
> 
> > i would much rather teach my designers simple
> > transformations than worry constantly about whether they
> > ate my tags containing my java code.
> >
> Simple transformations are few and far between in my experience.  XSLT
> is a great language.  But it is not simple, not nearly as simple as a
> well-designed JSP tag, IMHO.
> 
> > where are ya'll doing the transformations - server or
> > client side?
> >
> I've done both.  It's been a year or so, but server-side 
> transformations
> were dogs for performance.  Client-side works fine, but you have to be
> able to control the browser.  For IE, you have to make sure 
> the user has
> the right version of MSXML installed.  For Netscape, can Netscape do
> XSLT at all?  Seems like version 6 can, but I don't know.  
> Bottom line.
> If you use XSLT you will have to address performance issues.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
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RE: xml-xslt v jsp

[Greg.Reddin]

Someone else could probably do a better job than me, but...

1)  If transforms are done on the client, processing is distributed.
The server does not have to process transformations for all of the
concurrently connected clients.  DOM processing takes a lot of memory
and overall application performance improves if that processing is
distributed to client machines.  In practice, transforms that took
several seconds using Xalan running under Tomcat were instantaneous in
MSXML running in IE on the same box.

2)  Your server already has to be a workhorse because you are taking
data from Java objects and building an XML document from them.  XSLT
just adds another layer of processing to the same data.  If that
processing can be pushed off to the client, server resources are freed
up.

In our experience we found that performance was dramatically affected as
concurrent users were added.  The same type of system performed much
better under JSP.  There was simply less processing involved.

> -Original Message-
> From: Tandon, Pankaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 9:43 AM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: xml-xslt v jsp
> 
> 
> Can you please explain WHY server side XSL transforms shd be more of a
> performance (resource) hog than client side?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 10:36 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: xml-xslt v jsp
> 
> 
> > isn't teaching a designer XSLT to modify a schema into
> > HTML easier than teaching them to not break your java
> > code inside of a jsp? 
> >
> No, it's not.  XSLT *is* a programming language and you have to know
> XPath to really do anything practical with XSLT.  I would never try to
> teach designers XSLT (who define "programming" as doing cool 
> stuff with
> DHTML)  That is not to say that they are stupid.  They have their own
> area of expertise in an area in which I cannot perform.  XSLT 
> is geared
> to a programmer's mindset.  You have loops, conditionals, etc.  If
> designers ever look at source code, they will recognize Java 
> because it
> looks similar to JavaScript.  If they're not proficient with it, they
> will leave it alone.  XSLT will be a whole new world for them.
> 
> Now, I would argue that if you have Java code in your JSP, you should
> try to get it out using tags.  The cases when Java code is in the JSP
> should be rare.  A well-designed tag library will be much easier to
> train designers to work around than XSLT.
> 
> > i would much rather teach my designers simple
> > transformations than worry constantly about whether they
> > ate my tags containing my java code.
> > 
> Simple transformations are few and far between in my experience.  XSLT
> is a great language.  But it is not simple, not nearly as simple as a
> well-designed JSP tag, IMHO.
> 
> > where are ya'll doing the transformations - server or
> > client side?
> > 
> I've done both.  It's been a year or so, but server-side 
> transformations
> were dogs for performance.  Client-side works fine, but you have to be
> able to control the browser.  For IE, you have to make sure 
> the user has
> the right version of MSXML installed.  For Netscape, can Netscape do
> XSLT at all?  Seems like version 6 can, but I don't know.  
> Bottom line.
> If you use XSLT you will have to address performance issues.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
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RE: xml-xslt v jsp

[Greg.Reddin]

> isn't teaching a designer XSLT to modify a schema into
> HTML easier than teaching them to not break your java
> code inside of a jsp? 
>
No, it's not.  XSLT *is* a programming language and you have to know
XPath to really do anything practical with XSLT.  I would never try to
teach designers XSLT (who define "programming" as doing cool stuff with
DHTML)  That is not to say that they are stupid.  They have their own
area of expertise in an area in which I cannot perform.  XSLT is geared
to a programmer's mindset.  You have loops, conditionals, etc.  If
designers ever look at source code, they will recognize Java because it
looks similar to JavaScript.  If they're not proficient with it, they
will leave it alone.  XSLT will be a whole new world for them.

Now, I would argue that if you have Java code in your JSP, you should
try to get it out using tags.  The cases when Java code is in the JSP
should be rare.  A well-designed tag library will be much easier to
train designers to work around than XSLT.

> i would much rather teach my designers simple
> transformations than worry constantly about whether they
> ate my tags containing my java code.
> 
Simple transformations are few and far between in my experience.  XSLT
is a great language.  But it is not simple, not nearly as simple as a
well-designed JSP tag, IMHO.

> where are ya'll doing the transformations - server or
> client side?
> 
I've done both.  It's been a year or so, but server-side transformations
were dogs for performance.  Client-side works fine, but you have to be
able to control the browser.  For IE, you have to make sure the user has
the right version of MSXML installed.  For Netscape, can Netscape do
XSLT at all?  Seems like version 6 can, but I don't know.  Bottom line.
If you use XSLT you will have to address performance issues.

Greg


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RE: Auto-Replies

[Greg.Reddin]

He'll get better.

> -Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 1:10 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: Auto-Replies
> 
> 
> Could we turn him into a newt?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 2:02 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Auto-Replies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 10 May 2002, Eddie Bush wrote:
> 
> > Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:29:33 -0500
> > From: Eddie Bush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Auto-Replies
> >
> > Suggestion:
> >
> > Why don't we remove people from the list that generate auto-reply
> messages?
> >
> 
> In general, I try to do just that on things like vacation replies.
> However, it's not always an issue of removing direct 
> subscribers -- and
> the recent "temporarily exceeded quota" situation going on now is an
> example.
> 
> There is no subscriber to STRUTS-USER that has 
> "sprintpcs.com" in their
> subscription address (hardly a surprise, given the volume of 
> messages :-).
> This particular message is coming from some existing 
> subscriber that is
> forwarding their own mailbox -- and there is no clue in the reply back
> from Sprint on who the guilty party is.
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
> 
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RE: *.do ---- Proof of Concepts

[Greg.Reddin]

I beleive you are correct.  Do you have a form bean that is being
populated?  If not, and the taglib is useful to you without the
controller, is there any reason for you to use the controller in this
case?  A controller doesn't really buy you anything if you have no
business logic to invoke and only one page.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: K J [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 1:51 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: *.do  Proof of Concepts
> 
> 
> wow, i didn't know that. 
> i thought since i had this mapping entry(below) in my
> web.xml, all the requests to the jsp would get
> intercepted by the ActionServlet!
> 
>   
> action
> *.*
>   
> 
> I was ablet to use the tags, so I guess the tag
> libraries have nothing to do with the ActionServlet,
> right? So in my case, the requests have not been going
> through the ActionServlet? damn!
> 
> 
> --- Marcelo Vanzin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > K J wrote:
> > > So what you guys are saying is that it won't work
> > > without the action class? instead of *.do, can I
> > just
> > > put *.* or *.jsp ?
> > 
> > Exactly. If you're mapping something to the
> > ActionServlet, you are saying 
> > that you have an Action to be executed. You can't
> > bypass the action if 
> > you are using the default ActionServlet.
> > 
> > Maybe it is possible to extend the ActionServlet
> > and make it so that you 
> > don't need to call the Action, but that is not
> > Struts' default 
> > behaviour, and that is why you need that façade
> > action for what you want 
> > to do.
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > []'s
> > Marcelo Vanzin
> > Touch Tecnologia
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > "Life is too short to drink cheap beer"
> > 
> > 
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> > 
> 
> 
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RE: xslt transformation + utf-8

[Greg.Reddin]

> but maybe I should set it somehow already in Document while creating 
> elements?
> 
That's what we used to do.  We'd create a document with the String:
"\n" or something like
that.  

There's probably a better way, but we never bothered to find it.  You
can set the encoding on the OutputFormat object
(org.apache.xml.serialize.OutputFormat) in Xerces before serialization,
but I've not tried it so I don't know how it works.

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RE: Multi-Lingual support

[Greg.Reddin]

Go to Tools/Internet Options...

Click on the Languages button.  

If "Chinese" is on the list move it to the top.  If not, click the "Add"
button and follow the instructions.

HTH
Greg
> -Original Message-
> From: Yibing Li [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 9:22 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Multi-Lingual support
> 
> 
> Could you tell me how to set up the locale in my browser? The 
> only thing I
> know
> is that I have set the encoding under the view ( for IE ) to 
> the appropriate
> language I expect.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Yibing
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Tero P Paananen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 10:05 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Multi-Lingual support
> 
> 
> >1. have ApplicationResources.properties as English property file.
> >2. prepare a resource file for each language, in the case
> > of Chinese, it
> > is
> >   ApplicationResources_zh_CN.properties in the same
> > directory, with the
> > content
> >   translated to Chinese
> >3. Set init parameter of locale to true for ActionServlet
> >4. Start the server
> >5. Reset the locale of a computer
> >6. Browse the application
> >
> > However, what I see is still in English.
> >
> >
> >Do I miss anything? Please help.
> 
> Doublecheck that your browser is set up to send the correct
> locale to the web server.
> 
> It's not the operating system that sends the locale to your
> application, but the browser.
> 
>   -TPP
> 
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RE: xslt transformation + utf-8

[Greg.Reddin]

> XML, XSL and also Transformer's setOutputProperty is set to UTF-8
> 
Does that mean you have this at the top of your XML and XSLT?:



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RE: off topic: software development quality/standards

[Greg.Reddin]

Pretty good paper.  I think that the last 3 levels: maintainability,
usability, and performance (especially the last two) are not strictly
hierarchical.  In some environments performance takes on a much higher
priority and performance may be achieved before usability.  But I
totally agree that maintainable code will be much easier to
performance-tune.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: Vladimir Levin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:28 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: off topic: software development quality/standards
> 
> 
> This is totally off-topic, but I was inpsired by experiences
> on a Struts project to write the short essay below. If you're
> so inclined, give it a read and maybe tell me what you think.
> Don't get me wrong, I am not thinking that it's terribly
> original, but hey, it comes from the heart.
> 
> http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~levinv/aphelion/software_development.html
> 
> Vlad
> 
> 
> _
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
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RE: web-MVC-frameworks in question [Was: Struts vs. other Framworks.....]

[Greg.Reddin]

I may not be the best person to address your concerns, but I'll give it
a shot.  

In our shop we've developed applications that have several hundred
components and screens.  There is no "out-of-the-box" installation for
us.  No two clients desire the same behavior and customizations on the
fat client/server apps are expensive and take forever.  We were always
looking for ways to externalize screen flow and component flow from the
code so clients could configure the app and build custom solutions.  I
say this because I don't think these issues are unique to us, but fairly
common in large application development.  (If it is unique to us, then I
assume we're doing something wrong.)  Along comes J2EE and MVC with a
nearly perfect environment for that.  It turns out that, because of
executive decisions, we're not using Struts, but our stuff looks
amazingly similar to Struts ;-)

See comments below:

> -Original Message-
> From: Jean-Philippe Bret 
> Subject: web-MVC-frameworks in question [Was: Struts vs. other
> Framworks.]
> 
> 
> I'm not really convinced by all these frameworks, mainly because
> of the importance of the declarative-construction of web-apps :
> these fwks use xml or property files (or even better data bases...)
> to tell the FrontController "which class takes care of this URL"
> (e.g. "/my/first/action/url" = "my.class.for.FirstAction") and
> "where he goes from there?" (e.g. "ok" = "url1" ; "ko" = "url2")
> 
Declarative construction is key to an MVC framework.  Part of a
controller's decisioning process involves where to go next.  It quickly
becomes obvious when you are hardcoding these things that it's not a
good idea.  In a web world, what if someone changes the name of a JSP?
It's much easier to modify a configuration file than change code.  More
importantly, adding new functionality involves less coding effort.  You
write the component (Actions in Struts), write the view, and quickly
integrate the component with the application.

Further, I question why the database is the better solution (assuming
you mean an RDBMS).  Controller configuration data is typically flat or
hierarchical, and it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me for that
to be stored in an RDBMS with all your application data.  LDAP's work
well for this in larger systems, and XML can work, but I agree that
administration concerns are valid in a large application.  In a small to
medium-sized application, XML is not a problem.  It's a universal
language.  You make your edits and you're on your way.  But at some
point it crosses over and becomes a large hassle, especially if system
administrators who want GUI interfaces have to handle it.  But I don't
think Struts should feel obligated to provide GUI administration.  We,
for example, wouldn't use it because our large application admin
requirements are unique just like everybody else's are.

> - isn't this process too heavy for a wide and often-changing-content
> web-app (these fwks would have to come with a site editor that
> could help web-app-masters organize their application site and
> work-flow - but they don't seem to come with any tool) ?
> 
Actually workflow engines exist and are being created that allow very
complex configuration of such things based on decisioning processes.
This is a requirement for our applications -- that a customer could
assemble our components via a workflow engine and build apps that we've
never dreamed of.

But I don't think MVC is the right tool for providing access to
"content".  It's an application framework, not a content manager.  It is
very helpful in providing access to functionality, and controlling flow.
Use Struts for the "application" sections of your web app (i.e. shopping
carts, searches, etc.).  Use other appropriate means to access the
content.

> - why not using code-oriented web-app structure (just as doing
> listeners and custom model-objects) ?
> 
You could argue that Struts does use a code-oriented structure (thought
I'm not convinced that I understand your model).  You never have to dig
into struts-config.xml from your code.  You get to it through the
ActionMapping framework.  That framework could be extended to get its
data from an LDAP or even database if that was a requirement.  I
wouldn't want anything more code-oriented than Struts because all of
Struts' configuration is code-oriented except the data itself, which you
would want to be externalized in a large environment.

> - do you feel these fwks are reliable for others media (voice, wap...)
> 
Not really sure, i.e. I haven't done that.  However, you probably want
the media to be delivered over HTTP, so the J2EE approach would still
work.  However, audio and video media on the web tends to be more
static.  What I mean is that you would probably provide static links to
it on your site and let the web server handle the streaming instead of
pointing an action or component to the media.  If the media is dynamic
-- generated on the fly or something, the

RE: ActionBeans

[Greg.Reddin]

Is dataList an instance variable or is it defined within your Action's
perform() or execute() method?

> -Original Message-
> From: Daniel Jaffa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 1:40 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: ActionBeans
> 
> 
> Ok, I just read this in the api
> 
> An Action is an adapter between the contents of an incoming 
> HTTP request and the corresponding business logic that should 
> be executed to process this request. The controller 
> (ActionServlet) will select an appropriate Action for each 
> request, create an instance (if necessary), and call the 
> perform method. 
> 
> Actions must be programmed in a thread-safe manner, because 
> the controller will share the same instance for multiple 
> simultaneous requests. In this means you should design with 
> the following items in mind: 
> 
>   a.. Instance and static variables MUST NOT be used to store 
> information related to the state of a particular request. 
> They MAY be used to share global resources across requests 
> for the same action. 
>   b.. Access to other resources (JavaBeans, session 
> variables, etc.) MUST be synchronized if those resources 
> require protection. (Generally, however, resource classes 
> should be designed to provide their own protection where necessary. 
> 
> so does this mean that if in my action I have code like this
> 
> 
>ArrayList dataList= new ArrayList();
>dataList = com.cci.dv.beans.loadData.loadDisplayBean(conn, 
> theFormBean, getParamArray());
> 
> Will I have data integrity issue because dataList is an 
> Instance variable
> 
> Daniel Jaffa
> 
> 
> 

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RE: Urgent: xml with struts

[Greg.Reddin]

If all you're trying to do is convert data between java objects and XML
you might want to look at Castor or JAXB (the upcoming Java API for XML
Binding).  Struts does not have any built-in support for moving data
between Java and XML, but you could certainly plug one of these packages
in.
 
Greg

-Original Message-
From: Yugandhar_Reddy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 11:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Urgent: xml with struts


Hi,
 
Can anyone tell me how can we make use of xml with struts
can we use struts for converting the xml to valueObjects(java class
which hold the set and get methods for the each xml tag) and again
valueObjects to xml??
 
Thanks in advance,
Yug
 
 

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RE: /servlet is the industry standard?

[Greg.Reddin]

Let me make an idiot of myself :-)

I believe /servlet is used if you do not define an entry in web.xml for
your servlet.  If you have the class com.stuff.servlet.AServlet in
WEB-INF/classes you can type
http://localhost/app-context/servlet/com/stuff/servlet/AServlet to
invoke your servlet.

Somebody please correct me if I've misstated that.  In any case that is
not the industry standard for invoking ANY servlet, just one that is not
defined in web.xml.  I believe your client is misinformed.

Thanks,
Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave J Dandeneau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 4:33 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: /servlet is the industry standard?
> 
> 
> Our current client is inquiring why we are not using /servlet 
> as the prefix to our URIs. They are saying that /servlet is 
> the industry standard. I have argued that a struts 
> application only has one servlet (possibly two if you include 
> the validator) and therefore  it wouldn't make any sense to 
> do it that way in a struts application. 
> 
> Is this truly an industry standard? Would there be any 
> reasoning to try to mimic this? 
> 
> Can this even be done if you have multiple web-apps? 
> 
> Wouldn't it look more like //servlet and 
> not /servlet?
> 
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> dave dandeneau
> 

RE: Free (or inexpensive) web hosting site for JSP/Struts/MySql?

[Greg.Reddin]

Check out http://www.webappcabaret.com/index.html.  They're free for 15
days and quite affordable after that.  You have access to Tomcat and
Jonas as well as mySql.

No offense, but you're not going to get the functionality you want for
free.  You must be willing to pay at least a little if you're going to
have database access and reliability.  WebAppCabaret is very affordable.
I can't speak for their reliability or performance.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 12:06 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Free (or inexpensive) web hosting site for JSP/Struts/MySql?
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Folks:
> 
> A thousand pardon's if this has already been asked in the 
> pastIs
> there a hosting service that's inexpensive or free (I doubt 
> it?) that would
> allow one to create a web-site that allows me to use 
> JSP/Struts and mySql
> database as well as access to an SMTP daemon to send email?   
>  I'd like to
> possibly create a web-site in my spare time that would allow 
> people to post
> reviews of their favorite cd's.
> 
> I am getting more/more proficient with Struts and am liking 
> it and feel I
> am possessing the knowledge to build such a site...The 
> one catch is the
> database can grow to big proportions since people are posting 
> reviews which
> could be many sentances long.I'd expect the database to 
> contain as much
> as 20-30MB (if not more) after the first 6-12 months.
> 
> Also, can mySql handle such a workload?I am proficient with using
> Oracle (what we use at work) but don't want to pay to use 
> Oracle for this
> web-site.   mySql makes sense since it seems to be free.
> 
> thanks in advance,
> Theron
> 
> 
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RE: Article about Struts and XSLT

[Greg.Reddin]

I thought this article was very good, and probably one of the best
approaches I've seen to using XSLT with Struts.  If I was in a situation
where I had to use XSLT, I'd probably take an approach similar to this
one.
 
However, I found the authors' contention that this solution offers a
significant advantage over the standard Struts architecture to be
unconvincing.  They cited several disadvantages to using Struts "as-is"
that I thought were not valid and little evidence was given to support
them.  They were particularly critical of JSP and the Struts tags, and I
thought this was their weakest argument.  They implied that XSLT is an
easier "API" to learn than Struts tags, a notiion which I believe is
entirely false.  Most developers I know were able to pick up the Struts
tags by looking at documentation and examples.  The same developers had
to buy a book to learn XSLT.  One might find a different learning curve
among page designers, but I seriously doubt they have a better grasp of
XSLT than JSP.  
 
The authors also failed to mention the fact that the transformation of
the JavaBeans to XML adds a whole new layer of processing to be done.
JSP doesn't have to "serialize" the beans before it can use them.
 
Again, I thought the authors did an excellent job at presenting a
framework for using XSLT with Struts.  But the article should not have
presented this solution as being in competition with Struts/JSP, in my
opinion.  
 
Greg



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RE: Error upgrading to latest struts build

[Greg.Reddin]

Sanity check:
1)  Is there a struts-config.xml file in your WEB-INF directory?
2)  What are the results if you take the initial "/" off of
/WEB-INF/struts-config
in your web.xml? (Mine requires the initial "/" so that's probably
not it.)
3)  Is the struts-config file being used by another process?  (try to
rename it.)
4)  What if you use another enviroment like Tomcat or Orion, etc?

I have not attempted to reproduce this error, so if this doesn't work,
shoot me a personal note (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) and I'll see if
I can help.

Thanks,
Greg

RE: Real World Struts

[Greg.Reddin]

> We have developers who are familiar with JSP and Java and J2EE. Struts
would be 
> the only learning curve ( and it's not exactly a small learning curve
). 
> 
I have to disagree with you there.  I began using Struts when I had less
than 6 months experience in Java, and very little experience in JSP or
J2EE.  I found it to be very intuitive and useful very quickly.  Our
team also had little trouble adopting it and understanding it.

We spent about a day or two in full-time training, assigned some work,
and kept mentors available for a few weeks to help tie up loose ends.
After that it took very little time to get people moving.  The doc is
very clear and one can reasonably learn Struts on their own in a fairly
short time. In fact it answers many architectural questions up front,
leaving developers to focus only on the business functionality at hand.
Things like internationalization, error-handling patterns, separation of
logic, etc. are already figured out.  Depending on the size of your app,
if you don't use something like Struts you will eventually find yourself
asking questions like "Should this functionality be in a bean or on the
JSP?", or "What's the best way to pass such and such data from here to
there?" or "How should I display errors?".  Struts offers solutions and
patterns for all those things.  That's my 2 cents.

RE: XML/XSL/Struts Architecture

[Greg.Reddin]

> What I did to handle the XML data was write some taglibs that accessed

> XML data via XPath.  I also wrote a taglib that will perform an XSL 
> transformation and include the resulting output to a JSP

I think that's a viable solution; some in our company have considered
that route as well.  However, it's more than just dealing with XML in
the view.  There are also issues internal in the controller code.  For
example, if your backend data is XML, and you are processing it
internally in a DOM structure, you have to jump through all sorts of
hoops just to get to the data, not to mention problems with types and
all that.  It just seems much cleaner, after my experience, for XML to
be an adapter layer.  Once you get the XML from the backend, put it into
some beans and process it the easy way.  XML is great for B2B
communications, but why do we need to use it internally?  It adds to
much mud to the water, IMHO.  Having said that, it does add some value,
but in our situation, much of that value was obscured by the overhead.

Thanks,
Greg