RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
I guess if you just don't like JSTL (the ambiguity, lack of developmental feedback, lack of refactoring support, etc) you are SOL. Edgar -Original Message- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 3:32 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs? If they aren't faster in performance then something is wrong. All the JSP rendering practically has to do is put the code as is into the Servlet which is a Java class. No interpretation. I haven't looked at the source but I am sure the optimization for rendering code for Scriptlets vs JSTL has to be there. Don't be so sure. Because the JSTL is standard, containers can optimize the java code generated from JSTL tags. This means a c:if tag can be converted into a real Java if statement instead of creating tag instances and invoking the tag's lifecyle. My understanding is that the Jasper JSP compiler (comes with Tomcat) actually generates faster Java code if you *don't* use scriptlets at all. Resin and Tomcat both optimize JSTL tag usage. So, with the JSTL we get the best of both worlds: Fast page rendering and standardized, powerful and easy to use markup tags. David __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
You're right, ant does have $var in it I use my IDE to build and forgot.
I just think that is a step backwards doing tags that way.
So many things are a step backwards like config files for instance. J2EE is
supposed to be for the Enterprise which means there is at least a DB and
maybe the LDAP at your disposal yet people go back to storing stuff in
files.
I am just trying to point out when things seem backwards. Certain things
(like tags) should be getting more XML like and not more UNIX script like.
Let's put our config in a datastore and let's either have programmers doing
the UI and accept things like scriptlets or have UI specialist and make it
easier on them but not having $var in the tags. That's all I am saying.
I definitely was wrong about Ant, sorry.
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:41 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Maybe you could post this to the ECS users group. Scriptlets are fine, but
tend to lend themselves to having lots of lines of code in a page that
doesn't actually generate html, which is tough to read if you are trying to
lay things out.
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the
$var UNIX script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
What are you talking about? ${var} is pretty standard in Ant.
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: August 8, 2003 11:21 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can
do), faster, is a
standard (it is the Java language you know) and if you are
going to spend
time learning a new language (${var} == pooPoo) then you
would be better
off learning Java (assuming you don't already know it) cause
then you could
do scriptlets and middle tier coding and more whereas if you
use your time
learning JSTL all you will know is JSTL.
Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes out with an
alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the
importance of having
the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing
scriptlets.
If it makes you happy $var is a legal Java variable name so
you could just
write scriptlets with $var and no one would realize you
weren't writing JSTL
:)
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the
$var UNIX script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
Bottom line is, yes, Struts tags aren't the best but JSTL is
not much better
and will probably be replaced with something not so ugly in
the future.
Just my .02 sense.
I like it how some people don't get disturbed by questions
about connecting
to a database with JDBC to the Struts user list but get mad
if you post a
differing opinion about the crappy way some tags were written that
interfaces with Struts code. What an ACE!
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 10:28 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- David Thielen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi;
For the logic and I18N taglibs - what do you recommend - using the
struts taglibs or the JSTL taglibs?
Definitely JSTL. They're more powerful, easier to use, potentially
faster, and a Java standard.
David
thanks - dave
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[OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
I agree that *business* logic shouldn't be in the view, but what about
formatting logic that is specific to web pages?
As an example, let's say that you had the following html code to do tabbed
menus: [borrowed from http://www.clagnut.com/writings/csstabs/]
div id=topnav
ul
lia href=#Home/a/li
lia href=# class=hereAbout/a/li
lia href=#News/a/li
/ul
/div
Would you consider the following to be bad?
div id=topnav
ul
li
c:forEach items=${menu.customizedMenuItems} var=perms
c:choose
c:when test='${perms.currentItem eq Y}'
a href=c:out value='${perms.link}'/
class=here
c:out value='${perms.description}'/
/a
/c:when
c:otherwise
a href=c:out value='${perms.link}'/
c:out value='${perms.description}'/
/a
/c:otherwise
/c:choose
/c:forEach
/li
/ul
Original Message
Subject: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 13:47:02 -0400
From: Bailey, Shane C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.jakarta.struts.user
[snip]
In theory it seems like there should be no logic in the View since 1. who
sees what and when could be considered business logic and 2. you would want
to try and make that who sees what where logic exist in a place where both
your Web app and Swing app (for instance) can get to it.
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RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
But, what I really meant about JSTL being replaced was in popularity. JSP tags are being replaced (in popularity) with Struts tags, your JSTL, and alike. -Original Message- From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 4:02 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs? -Original Message- From: Erik Price [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 3:45 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs? Bailey, Shane C. wrote: [Snip] Why should build files be composed of tags at all? I think Ant is great too (a lot better than make), but does the fact that it is tag-based have anything to do with it? No. The reason that the original author went with XML for the structure of Ant build files had nothing to do with tags -- it had to do with hierarchy. See http://tinyurl.com/jg0d to read his thoughts on the matter (sorry for the cachelink but I can't find the official permalink). [/Snip] I don't know why a build file should be composed of tags either. My point was that Ant is nicer and more recently popular than make and the developer could have thought, You know, most people that will be using Any will probably know make so I am going to throw a bunch of == in there and that would be fine. Ant has more of an excuse to have == in the darn thing than a View (geared toward UI and graphic artist specialist) tag set does. And the Ant developer must have seen the light. (All my opinion, of course). [Snip] Faster? Given a programmer with equal knowledge of scriptlets and JSTL, scriptlets are definitely not faster for development. Since when are they faster for performance? Plus they tend to be difficult to read -- and I say this as a former PHP programmer. [/Snip] If they aren't faster in performance then something is wrong. All the JSP rendering practically has to do is put the code as is into the Servlet which is a Java class. No interpretation. I haven't looked at the source but I am sure the optimization for rendering code for Scriptlets vs JSTL has to be there. I know more Java programmers that could get a JSP page drawn if you simple told them % ... % for multiple code segments and do %= ... % to return an expression given all they knew was Java and no Web stuff (including JSTL at all). [Snip] Okay, first of all, JSTL is a JCP specification (JSR-52, for more info see http://jcp.org/aboutJava/communityprocess/final/jsr052/). It's not just some 3rd-party library that is going to be replaced any time soon. Second of all, it is actually a part of the JSP 2.0 specification (just as scriptlets are part of an earlier JSP specification). While scriptlets are still supported in JSP 2.0, it is clear that Sun and the JCP are trying to provide alternatives to scriptlets and at some point they might even be deprecated. [/Snip] Nothing is impossible. I remember being devastated after getting pretty efficient with AWT and then the model changed and then Swing came out. And you even mention how scriptlets WERE part of the spec and are now close to deprecation. So what is so ridiculous about my statement??? [Snip] So sorry, but I had to ask - what the crap were you talking about. [/Snip] No problem. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
You are not alone is questioning the solutions to the view problem. This is an interesting problem and will really challenge the open source community to solve it. Right now, everyone has an opinion, no one has a real solution, each individual users needs are limited (they tend to solve their particular needs and move on) and the problem is EXCEPTIONALLY complex. Part of the problem is that there are so many ways (none of which are particularly good compared to .NET) to paint pages in Java land. JSF is vapor and has a limited window of opportunity and requires REAL industry support to succeed before the world moves past it. .NET view technology looks really tempting from the outside and there are statistics which support that it enhances developer productivity (this will have a greater importance as time passes). The individual with the most influence in the space is Craig, which is why JSF is seen as an overall solution. Unfortunately, many in the community disagree with him and with JSF. I wish, I agreed that JSF was the answer and that if we all jumped on the JSF bandwagon, the industry could move past this problem, we could have great IDE's for view creation, etc. Anyway, this is a real challenge facing the community with very strong pressure being applied by MS. Edgar - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
I see the ease of using a flat file for config since a framework doesn't have to support the many DBs where their data could be stored but I think you can better protect data in a DB and you won't have parsing errors at run time. You just need an interface to manipulate the data. Until Struts broke down into modules you had to view, in some cases, a very big and sometimes ugly config file. Didn't Oracle have a product that was like the file system is in the DB? Whatever happened to that? It is Friday and I feel like talking about the future of software a little that's all. :) -Original Message- From: Reinhard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 12:04 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs? So many things are a step backwards like config files for instance. J2EE is supposed to be for the Enterprise which means there is at least a DB and maybe the LDAP at your disposal yet people go back to storing stuff in files. I don't agree. You have to think about the time after the rollout - so, things which are not subject of change, IMHO are ok in config files. All other stuff it's already possible, read from database. So I can see no step backward. cheers Reinhard - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
There is a pretty good article in the May issue of JDJ by Murali Kauninya
and Jamiel Sheikh entitled JavaServer Faces. See:
http://www.javadevelopersjournal.com -- JDJ -- archives -- Volume 8,
Issue 5 (access code = jdj).
Mark
-Original Message-
From: Chen, Gin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 12:24 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Just like you never said JSF will replace JSTL I never said I was going to
eat a bunny. ;)
-Tim
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 12:05 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
It is nice to follow the heard sometimes but other times you just have to
step back and say, Can't we do any better?. I am not THAT closed minded
if I am convinced that the only real way to write tags to do what JSTL does
is to do it the current way then I will gladly use them I just think if
there is a better way then we should be about to talk about it.
The Big 3 car execs didn't want to talk about the future of the industry and
what was more user friendly and now look how they are paying.
I'm not mad. Just not convinced.
BTW, how could you eat those poor defenseless bunnies
:)
-Original Message-
From: Chen, Gin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 12:07 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Everyone take a deep breath and think of bunny rabbits.
Cute little bunnies
()()
('.')
()()
Hmm.. I'm getting hungry now.
-Tim
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:50 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Another debate. Your debate was to make me feel like I was doing something
wrong by posting my opinion. There was no debate.
The tags do speak for themselves and if you think that $var which Java
allows but is NEVER used is acceptable syntax for a tag then that speaks
volumes as well.
Never said, JSF will replace JSTL. I just said let's see what that
technology and others has in store in the near future. Java didn't have
every API and package when it first came out so, like I said, we will see
what JSF has to offer in the near future. I'm just hoping it is some
replacement for those step backwards tags.
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:51 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- Bailey, Shane C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I think scriptlets are ugly and shouldn't be used
but like I said JSTL is not da bomb and if already know Struts tags I
wouldn't
go rewriting my code to JSTL until I have seen what JSF and any new
technology near by has in store.
JSF is not a replacement for JSTL. They complement each other.
I'm just saying all the reasons listed do not necessarily mean a whole
lot since scriptlets can fit nearly everything said about JSTL but yet
everybody
agrees not to use scriptlets. I am just giving another opinion.
The question had nothing to do with scriptlets. It was about using JSTL or
Struts tags. I'm not going to participate in another JSTL debate. The tags
speak for themselves.
David
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:21 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can do),
faster, is a standard (it is the Java language you know) and if you
are going to spend
time learning a new language (${var} == pooPoo) then you would be
better
off learning Java (assuming you don't already know it) cause then you
could
do scriptlets and middle tier coding and more whereas if you use your
time
learning JSTL all you will know is JSTL.
Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes out with an
alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the importance of
having the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing
scriptlets.
If it makes you happy $var is a legal Java variable name so you could
just write scriptlets with $var and no one would realize you weren't
writing JSTL
:)
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the $var UNIX
script like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
Bottom line is, yes, Struts tags aren't the best but JSTL is not much
better and will probably be replaced with something not so ugly in the
future.
Just my .02 sense.
I like it how some people don't get disturbed by questions about
connecting to a database with JDBC to the Struts user list but get mad
if you post a
differing opinion about the crappy way some tags were written that
interfaces with Struts code. What
Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
I think Craig answered this topic about a month ago quite lucidly - check the archives for the full version, but basically he said if you have the choice, use JSTL, otherwise don't worry but at some distant point in the future you will probably have to use JSTL (or whatever else comes along like Java Server Faces). David Thielen wrote: Hi; For the logic and I18N taglibs - what do you recommend - using the struts taglibs or the JSTL taglibs? thanks - dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Hmm, yeah. I wouldn't hold your breath on that. I mean the JSTL people did feel the need to include database tags, even though no one really thinks that's a good idea (if you do, I'm really not interested). Anyways, it's happy hour, go have a beer (unless you're not in NYC, but I'm not sure if that exists). steve More of a philosophical disagreement than anything. I'm sure I'll end up using JSTL but I am hoping for a little better implementation of some of the tags. That's all. :)
RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
The nice thing about those $var style tags is that they are very easy to
read, if you use nice names for things, most people can understand the
relationships and get something out of them. Also these translate well to
my email templates which are in Velocity macros. But I guess the real issue
is that XML tends to be pretty long winded, nice for data transport, not so
nice when you're trying to read the file on screen. I'm sorry about being
jaded against scriptlets, I've had a bad experience with inheriting software
with rough ones.
The good thing about scriptlets is that they compile, however. Has
anyone written something that wil reflect classes used in JSTL tags to at
least ensure that the relationships in the tags are possible? I would
totally be in to getting more out of compilers that way - this would make
refactoring so much better too.
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: August 8, 2003 11:43 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
You're right, ant does have $var in it I use my IDE to build
and forgot.
I just think that is a step backwards doing tags that way.
So many things are a step backwards like config files for
instance. J2EE is
supposed to be for the Enterprise which means there is at
least a DB and
maybe the LDAP at your disposal yet people go back to storing stuff in
files.
I am just trying to point out when things seem backwards.
Certain things
(like tags) should be getting more XML like and not more UNIX
script like.
Let's put our config in a datastore and let's either have
programmers doing
the UI and accept things like scriptlets or have UI
specialist and make it
easier on them but not having $var in the tags. That's all I
am saying.
I definitely was wrong about Ant, sorry.
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:41 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Maybe you could post this to the ECS users group. Scriptlets
are fine, but
tend to lend themselves to having lots of lines of code in a page that
doesn't actually generate html, which is tough to read if you
are trying to
lay things out.
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the
$var UNIX script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
What are you talking about? ${var} is pretty standard in Ant.
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: August 8, 2003 11:21 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can
do), faster, is a
standard (it is the Java language you know) and if you are
going to spend
time learning a new language (${var} == pooPoo) then you
would be better
off learning Java (assuming you don't already know it) cause
then you could
do scriptlets and middle tier coding and more whereas if you
use your time
learning JSTL all you will know is JSTL.
Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes
out with an
alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the
importance of having
the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing
scriptlets.
If it makes you happy $var is a legal Java variable name so
you could just
write scriptlets with $var and no one would realize you
weren't writing JSTL
:)
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the
$var UNIX script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
Bottom line is, yes, Struts tags aren't the best but JSTL is
not much better
and will probably be replaced with something not so ugly in
the future.
Just my .02 sense.
I like it how some people don't get disturbed by questions
about connecting
to a database with JDBC to the Struts user list but get mad
if you post a
differing opinion about the crappy way some tags were written that
interfaces with Struts code. What an ACE!
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 10:28 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- David Thielen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi;
For the logic and I18N taglibs - what do you recommend - using the
struts taglibs or the JSTL taglibs?
Definitely JSTL. They're more powerful, easier to use, potentially
faster, and a Java standard.
David
thanks - dave
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For additional commands
[OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Everyone take a deep breath and think of bunny rabbits.
Cute little bunnies
()()
('.')
()()
Hmm.. I'm getting hungry now.
-Tim
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:50 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Another debate. Your debate was to make me feel like I was doing something
wrong by posting my opinion. There was no debate.
The tags do speak for themselves and if you think that $var which Java
allows but is NEVER used is acceptable syntax for a tag then that speaks
volumes as well.
Never said, JSF will replace JSTL. I just said let's see what that
technology and others has in store in the near future. Java didn't have
every API and package when it first came out so, like I said, we will see
what JSF has to offer in the near future. I'm just hoping it is some
replacement for those step backwards tags.
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:51 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- Bailey, Shane C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I think scriptlets are ugly and shouldn't be used
but
like I said JSTL is not da bomb and if already know Struts tags I
wouldn't
go rewriting my code to JSTL until I have seen what JSF and any new
technology near by has in store.
JSF is not a replacement for JSTL. They complement each other.
I'm just saying all the reasons listed do not necessarily mean a whole
lot
since scriptlets can fit nearly everything said about JSTL but yet
everybody
agrees not to use scriptlets. I am just giving another opinion.
The question had nothing to do with scriptlets. It was about using JSTL
or Struts tags. I'm not going to participate in another JSTL debate. The
tags speak for themselves.
David
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:21 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can do), faster,
is a
standard (it is the Java language you know) and if you are going to
spend
time learning a new language (${var} == pooPoo) then you would be
better
off learning Java (assuming you don't already know it) cause then you
could
do scriptlets and middle tier coding and more whereas if you use your
time
learning JSTL all you will know is JSTL.
Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes out with an
alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the importance of
having
the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing
scriptlets.
If it makes you happy $var is a legal Java variable name so you could
just
write scriptlets with $var and no one would realize you weren't writing
JSTL
:)
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the $var UNIX
script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
Bottom line is, yes, Struts tags aren't the best but JSTL is not much
better
and will probably be replaced with something not so ugly in the future.
Just my .02 sense.
I like it how some people don't get disturbed by questions about
connecting
to a database with JDBC to the Struts user list but get mad if you post
a
differing opinion about the crappy way some tags were written that
interfaces with Struts code. What an ACE!
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 10:28 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- David Thielen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi;
For the logic and I18N taglibs - what do you recommend - using the
struts taglibs or the JSTL taglibs?
Definitely JSTL. They're more powerful, easier to use, potentially
faster, and a Java standard.
David
thanks - dave
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RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
-Original Message- From: Erik Price [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 3:45 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs? Bailey, Shane C. wrote: [Snip] Why should build files be composed of tags at all? I think Ant is great too (a lot better than make), but does the fact that it is tag-based have anything to do with it? No. The reason that the original author went with XML for the structure of Ant build files had nothing to do with tags -- it had to do with hierarchy. See http://tinyurl.com/jg0d to read his thoughts on the matter (sorry for the cachelink but I can't find the official permalink). [/Snip] I don't know why a build file should be composed of tags either. My point was that Ant is nicer and more recently popular than make and the developer could have thought, You know, most people that will be using Any will probably know make so I am going to throw a bunch of == in there and that would be fine. Ant has more of an excuse to have == in the darn thing than a View (geared toward UI and graphic artist specialist) tag set does. And the Ant developer must have seen the light. (All my opinion, of course). [Snip] Faster? Given a programmer with equal knowledge of scriptlets and JSTL, scriptlets are definitely not faster for development. Since when are they faster for performance? Plus they tend to be difficult to read -- and I say this as a former PHP programmer. [/Snip] If they aren't faster in performance then something is wrong. All the JSP rendering practically has to do is put the code as is into the Servlet which is a Java class. No interpretation. I haven't looked at the source but I am sure the optimization for rendering code for Scriptlets vs JSTL has to be there. I know more Java programmers that could get a JSP page drawn if you simple told them % ... % for multiple code segments and do %= ... % to return an expression given all they knew was Java and no Web stuff (including JSTL at all). [Snip] Okay, first of all, JSTL is a JCP specification (JSR-52, for more info see http://jcp.org/aboutJava/communityprocess/final/jsr052/). It's not just some 3rd-party library that is going to be replaced any time soon. Second of all, it is actually a part of the JSP 2.0 specification (just as scriptlets are part of an earlier JSP specification). While scriptlets are still supported in JSP 2.0, it is clear that Sun and the JCP are trying to provide alternatives to scriptlets and at some point they might even be deprecated. [/Snip] Nothing is impossible. I remember being devastated after getting pretty efficient with AWT and then the model changed and then Swing came out. And you even mention how scriptlets WERE part of the spec and are now close to deprecation. So what is so ridiculous about my statement??? [Snip] So sorry, but I had to ask - what the crap were you talking about. [/Snip] No problem. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Don't get me wrong, I think scriptlets are ugly and shouldn't be used but
like I said JSTL is not da bomb and if already know Struts tags I wouldn't
go rewriting my code to JSTL until I have seen what JSF and any new
technology near by has in store.
I'm just saying all the reasons listed do not necessarily mean a whole lot
since scriptlets can fit nearly everything said about JSTL but yet everybody
agrees not to use scriptlets. I am just giving another opinion.
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:21 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can do), faster, is a
standard (it is the Java language you know) and if you are going to spend
time learning a new language (${var} == pooPoo) then you would be better
off learning Java (assuming you don't already know it) cause then you could
do scriptlets and middle tier coding and more whereas if you use your time
learning JSTL all you will know is JSTL.
Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes out with an
alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the importance of having
the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing scriptlets.
If it makes you happy $var is a legal Java variable name so you could just
write scriptlets with $var and no one would realize you weren't writing JSTL
:)
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the $var UNIX script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
Bottom line is, yes, Struts tags aren't the best but JSTL is not much better
and will probably be replaced with something not so ugly in the future.
Just my .02 sense.
I like it how some people don't get disturbed by questions about connecting
to a database with JDBC to the Struts user list but get mad if you post a
differing opinion about the crappy way some tags were written that
interfaces with Struts code. What an ACE!
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 10:28 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- David Thielen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi;
For the logic and I18N taglibs - what do you recommend - using the
struts taglibs or the JSTL taglibs?
Definitely JSTL. They're more powerful, easier to use, potentially
faster, and a Java standard.
David
thanks - dave
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Re: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Part of the problem is that there are so many ways (none of which are particularly good compared to .NET) to paint pages in Java land. JSF is vapor and has a limited window of opportunity and requires REAL industry support to succeed before the world moves past it. .NET view technology looks really tempting from the outside and there are statistics which support that it enhances developer productivity (this will have a greater importance as time passes). When I started with webapps, I looked around what frameworks are available and who they help in moving ahead. Soon I was convinced about struts, but the different template packages didn't convince me at all. Following the discussion about white and black frameworks, I made up my mind to use something like tiles (and for so treating the webapp as black framework). But the homepage of the creator is last updated last year, the doc about advanced tiles has nearly the same timestamp and big parts classified as outdated. Looking around in discussion-areas tiles doesn't play a big role - so I stumbled. Another big point is the big vacuum around the model (from MVC). But at all the time, I didn't found a problem or question where .NET was the answer. Who ever read the background of the jpetstore competition can not (IMHO) find a good word about .NET So I think, the problem is to bring the good pieces together to build a complete framework to start with. For my opinion - the java comunity already has good solutions, that don't have to fear .NET at all. cheers Reinhard - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Before I get bashed again, I meant JSTL is replacing the use of the traditional JSP tags before all the c:when came out. I haven't seen one of those tags in ages. Maybe it will still be called JSTL but maybe their will be nicer replacement tags for some of the ugly logic ones. Maybe that is the solution. -Original Message- From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 4:20 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs? But, what I really meant about JSTL being replaced was in popularity. JSP tags are being replaced (in popularity) with Struts tags, your JSTL, and alike. -Original Message- From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 4:02 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs? -Original Message- From: Erik Price [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 3:45 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs? Bailey, Shane C. wrote: [Snip] Why should build files be composed of tags at all? I think Ant is great too (a lot better than make), but does the fact that it is tag-based have anything to do with it? No. The reason that the original author went with XML for the structure of Ant build files had nothing to do with tags -- it had to do with hierarchy. See http://tinyurl.com/jg0d to read his thoughts on the matter (sorry for the cachelink but I can't find the official permalink). [/Snip] I don't know why a build file should be composed of tags either. My point was that Ant is nicer and more recently popular than make and the developer could have thought, You know, most people that will be using Any will probably know make so I am going to throw a bunch of == in there and that would be fine. Ant has more of an excuse to have == in the darn thing than a View (geared toward UI and graphic artist specialist) tag set does. And the Ant developer must have seen the light. (All my opinion, of course). [Snip] Faster? Given a programmer with equal knowledge of scriptlets and JSTL, scriptlets are definitely not faster for development. Since when are they faster for performance? Plus they tend to be difficult to read -- and I say this as a former PHP programmer. [/Snip] If they aren't faster in performance then something is wrong. All the JSP rendering practically has to do is put the code as is into the Servlet which is a Java class. No interpretation. I haven't looked at the source but I am sure the optimization for rendering code for Scriptlets vs JSTL has to be there. I know more Java programmers that could get a JSP page drawn if you simple told them % ... % for multiple code segments and do %= ... % to return an expression given all they knew was Java and no Web stuff (including JSTL at all). [Snip] Okay, first of all, JSTL is a JCP specification (JSR-52, for more info see http://jcp.org/aboutJava/communityprocess/final/jsr052/). It's not just some 3rd-party library that is going to be replaced any time soon. Second of all, it is actually a part of the JSP 2.0 specification (just as scriptlets are part of an earlier JSP specification). While scriptlets are still supported in JSP 2.0, it is clear that Sun and the JCP are trying to provide alternatives to scriptlets and at some point they might even be deprecated. [/Snip] Nothing is impossible. I remember being devastated after getting pretty efficient with AWT and then the model changed and then Swing came out. And you even mention how scriptlets WERE part of the spec and are now close to deprecation. So what is so ridiculous about my statement??? [Snip] So sorry, but I had to ask - what the crap were you talking about. [/Snip] No problem. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
For the logic and I18N taglibs - what do you recommend - using the struts taglibs or the JSTL taglibs? Definitely JSTL. They're more powerful, easier to use, potentially faster, and a Java standard. not to forget: there's a good chance that (in the future) containers will have their own optimized versions of the JSTL-tags, there are already some implemented in TC5.x Yann - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
It is nice to follow the heard sometimes but other times you just have to
step back and say, Can't we do any better?. I am not THAT closed minded
if I am convinced that the only real way to write tags to do what JSTL does
is to do it the current way then I will gladly use them I just think if
there is a better way then we should be about to talk about it.
The Big 3 car execs didn't want to talk about the future of the industry and
what was more user friendly and now look how they are paying.
I'm not mad. Just not convinced.
BTW, how could you eat those poor defenseless bunnies
:)
-Original Message-
From: Chen, Gin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 12:07 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Everyone take a deep breath and think of bunny rabbits.
Cute little bunnies
()()
('.')
()()
Hmm.. I'm getting hungry now.
-Tim
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:50 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Another debate. Your debate was to make me feel like I was doing something
wrong by posting my opinion. There was no debate.
The tags do speak for themselves and if you think that $var which Java
allows but is NEVER used is acceptable syntax for a tag then that speaks
volumes as well.
Never said, JSF will replace JSTL. I just said let's see what that
technology and others has in store in the near future. Java didn't have
every API and package when it first came out so, like I said, we will see
what JSF has to offer in the near future. I'm just hoping it is some
replacement for those step backwards tags.
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:51 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- Bailey, Shane C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I think scriptlets are ugly and shouldn't be used
but
like I said JSTL is not da bomb and if already know Struts tags I
wouldn't
go rewriting my code to JSTL until I have seen what JSF and any new
technology near by has in store.
JSF is not a replacement for JSTL. They complement each other.
I'm just saying all the reasons listed do not necessarily mean a whole
lot
since scriptlets can fit nearly everything said about JSTL but yet
everybody
agrees not to use scriptlets. I am just giving another opinion.
The question had nothing to do with scriptlets. It was about using JSTL
or Struts tags. I'm not going to participate in another JSTL debate. The
tags speak for themselves.
David
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:21 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can do), faster,
is a
standard (it is the Java language you know) and if you are going to
spend
time learning a new language (${var} == pooPoo) then you would be
better
off learning Java (assuming you don't already know it) cause then you
could
do scriptlets and middle tier coding and more whereas if you use your
time
learning JSTL all you will know is JSTL.
Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes out with an
alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the importance of
having
the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing
scriptlets.
If it makes you happy $var is a legal Java variable name so you could
just
write scriptlets with $var and no one would realize you weren't writing
JSTL
:)
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the $var UNIX
script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
Bottom line is, yes, Struts tags aren't the best but JSTL is not much
better
and will probably be replaced with something not so ugly in the future.
Just my .02 sense.
I like it how some people don't get disturbed by questions about
connecting
to a database with JDBC to the Struts user list but get mad if you post
a
differing opinion about the crappy way some tags were written that
interfaces with Struts code. What an ACE!
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 10:28 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- David Thielen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi;
For the logic and I18N taglibs - what do you recommend - using the
struts taglibs or the JSTL taglibs?
Definitely JSTL. They're more powerful, easier to use, potentially
faster, and a Java standard.
David
thanks - dave
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Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Bailey, Shane C. wrote: I'm trying state my opinion and learn (from replies). About the only thing in that statement that I know is verifiably screwed up is that Ant has no $var and I apologized and rectified what I meant in one of my recent posts. Whachu talkin' 'bout Willis? I hadn't read your apology when I replied. But even discounting your error about using variables in Ant, there were so many things I just didn't understand about your post: Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the $var UNIX script like crap and made it more like tags should be!!! Why should build files be composed of tags at all? I think Ant is great too (a lot better than make), but does the fact that it is tag-based have anything to do with it? No. The reason that the original author went with XML for the structure of Ant build files had nothing to do with tags -- it had to do with hierarchy. See http://tinyurl.com/jg0d to read his thoughts on the matter (sorry for the cachelink but I can't find the official permalink). Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can do), faster, Faster? Given a programmer with equal knowledge of scriptlets and JSTL, scriptlets are definitely not faster for development. Since when are they faster for performance? Plus they tend to be difficult to read -- and I say this as a former PHP programmer. Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes out with an alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the importance of having the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing scriptlets. Okay, first of all, JSTL is a JCP specification (JSR-52, for more info see http://jcp.org/aboutJava/communityprocess/final/jsr052/). It's not just some 3rd-party library that is going to be replaced any time soon. Second of all, it is actually a part of the JSP 2.0 specification (just as scriptlets are part of an earlier JSP specification). While scriptlets are still supported in JSP 2.0, it is clear that Sun and the JCP are trying to provide alternatives to scriptlets and at some point they might even be deprecated. So sorry, but I had to ask - what the crap were you talking about. Erik - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
If they aren't faster in performance then something is wrong. All the JSP rendering practically has to do is put the code as is into the Servlet which is a Java class. No interpretation. I haven't looked at the source but I am sure the optimization for rendering code for Scriptlets vs JSTL has to be there. Don't be so sure. Because the JSTL is standard, containers can optimize the java code generated from JSTL tags. This means a c:if tag can be converted into a real Java if statement instead of creating tag instances and invoking the tag's lifecyle. My understanding is that the Jasper JSP compiler (comes with Tomcat) actually generates faster Java code if you *don't* use scriptlets at all. Resin and Tomcat both optimize JSTL tag usage. So, with the JSTL we get the best of both worlds: Fast page rendering and standardized, powerful and easy to use markup tags. David __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Going by this statement that you replied to and didn't correct anything
about it:
there's a good chance that (in the future) containers
will have their own optimized versions of the JSTL-tags, there are
already some
implemented in TC5.x
It doesn't sound like the optimization is totally there and everywhere.
Anyway, I'm not saying that scriptlets are the way to go if you reread all
my posts. I am saying the guys who were assigned to write the JSTL tags (at
least the logic ones) really dropped the ball by appearing to not know their
intended audience (UI specialist which are used to HTML like tags and not
${var} ==).
More of a philosophical disagreement than anything.
I'm sure I'll end up using JSTL but I am hoping for a little better
implementation of some of the tags. That's all.
:)
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 4:32 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
If they aren't faster in performance then something is wrong. All the
JSP
rendering practically has to do is put the code as is into the Servlet
which
is a Java class. No interpretation. I haven't looked at the source but
I
am sure the optimization for rendering code for Scriptlets vs JSTL has
to be
there.
Don't be so sure. Because the JSTL is standard, containers can optimize
the java code generated from JSTL tags. This means a c:if tag can be
converted into a real Java if statement instead of creating tag instances
and invoking the tag's lifecyle. My understanding is that the Jasper JSP
compiler (comes with Tomcat) actually generates faster Java code if you
*don't* use scriptlets at all. Resin and Tomcat both optimize JSTL tag
usage.
So, with the JSTL we get the best of both worlds: Fast page rendering and
standardized, powerful and easy to use markup tags.
David
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RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Another debate. Your debate was to make me feel like I was doing something
wrong by posting my opinion. There was no debate.
The tags do speak for themselves and if you think that $var which Java
allows but is NEVER used is acceptable syntax for a tag then that speaks
volumes as well.
Never said, JSF will replace JSTL. I just said let's see what that
technology and others has in store in the near future. Java didn't have
every API and package when it first came out so, like I said, we will see
what JSF has to offer in the near future. I'm just hoping it is some
replacement for those step backwards tags.
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:51 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- Bailey, Shane C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I think scriptlets are ugly and shouldn't be used
but
like I said JSTL is not da bomb and if already know Struts tags I
wouldn't
go rewriting my code to JSTL until I have seen what JSF and any new
technology near by has in store.
JSF is not a replacement for JSTL. They complement each other.
I'm just saying all the reasons listed do not necessarily mean a whole
lot
since scriptlets can fit nearly everything said about JSTL but yet
everybody
agrees not to use scriptlets. I am just giving another opinion.
The question had nothing to do with scriptlets. It was about using JSTL
or Struts tags. I'm not going to participate in another JSTL debate. The
tags speak for themselves.
David
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:21 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can do), faster,
is a
standard (it is the Java language you know) and if you are going to
spend
time learning a new language (${var} == pooPoo) then you would be
better
off learning Java (assuming you don't already know it) cause then you
could
do scriptlets and middle tier coding and more whereas if you use your
time
learning JSTL all you will know is JSTL.
Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes out with an
alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the importance of
having
the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing
scriptlets.
If it makes you happy $var is a legal Java variable name so you could
just
write scriptlets with $var and no one would realize you weren't writing
JSTL
:)
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the $var UNIX
script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
Bottom line is, yes, Struts tags aren't the best but JSTL is not much
better
and will probably be replaced with something not so ugly in the future.
Just my .02 sense.
I like it how some people don't get disturbed by questions about
connecting
to a database with JDBC to the Struts user list but get mad if you post
a
differing opinion about the crappy way some tags were written that
interfaces with Struts code. What an ACE!
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 10:28 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- David Thielen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi;
For the logic and I18N taglibs - what do you recommend - using the
struts taglibs or the JSTL taglibs?
Definitely JSTL. They're more powerful, easier to use, potentially
faster, and a Java standard.
David
thanks - dave
__
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RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- Bailey, Shane C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I think scriptlets are ugly and shouldn't be used
but
like I said JSTL is not da bomb and if already know Struts tags I
wouldn't
go rewriting my code to JSTL until I have seen what JSF and any new
technology near by has in store.
JSF is not a replacement for JSTL. They complement each other.
I'm just saying all the reasons listed do not necessarily mean a whole
lot
since scriptlets can fit nearly everything said about JSTL but yet
everybody
agrees not to use scriptlets. I am just giving another opinion.
The question had nothing to do with scriptlets. It was about using JSTL
or Struts tags. I'm not going to participate in another JSTL debate. The
tags speak for themselves.
David
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:21 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can do), faster,
is a
standard (it is the Java language you know) and if you are going to
spend
time learning a new language (${var} == pooPoo) then you would be
better
off learning Java (assuming you don't already know it) cause then you
could
do scriptlets and middle tier coding and more whereas if you use your
time
learning JSTL all you will know is JSTL.
Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes out with an
alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the importance of
having
the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing
scriptlets.
If it makes you happy $var is a legal Java variable name so you could
just
write scriptlets with $var and no one would realize you weren't writing
JSTL
:)
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the $var UNIX
script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
Bottom line is, yes, Struts tags aren't the best but JSTL is not much
better
and will probably be replaced with something not so ugly in the future.
Just my .02 sense.
I like it how some people don't get disturbed by questions about
connecting
to a database with JDBC to the Struts user list but get mad if you post
a
differing opinion about the crappy way some tags were written that
interfaces with Struts code. What an ACE!
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 10:28 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- David Thielen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi;
For the logic and I18N taglibs - what do you recommend - using the
struts taglibs or the JSTL taglibs?
Definitely JSTL. They're more powerful, easier to use, potentially
faster, and a Java standard.
David
thanks - dave
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RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can do), faster, is a
standard (it is the Java language you know) and if you are going to spend
time learning a new language (${var} == pooPoo) then you would be better
off learning Java (assuming you don't already know it) cause then you could
do scriptlets and middle tier coding and more whereas if you use your time
learning JSTL all you will know is JSTL.
Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes out with an
alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the importance of having
the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing scriptlets.
If it makes you happy $var is a legal Java variable name so you could just
write scriptlets with $var and no one would realize you weren't writing JSTL
:)
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the $var UNIX script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
Bottom line is, yes, Struts tags aren't the best but JSTL is not much better
and will probably be replaced with something not so ugly in the future.
Just my .02 sense.
I like it how some people don't get disturbed by questions about connecting
to a database with JDBC to the Struts user list but get mad if you post a
differing opinion about the crappy way some tags were written that
interfaces with Struts code. What an ACE!
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 10:28 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- David Thielen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi;
For the logic and I18N taglibs - what do you recommend - using the
struts taglibs or the JSTL taglibs?
Definitely JSTL. They're more powerful, easier to use, potentially
faster, and a Java standard.
David
thanks - dave
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RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
If I knew then I would be selling you some awesome piece of software that
solved all your problems, now wouldn't I?
I'm trying state my opinion and learn (from replies).
About the only thing in that statement that I know is verifiably screwed up
is that Ant has no $var and I apologized and rectified what I meant in one
of my recent posts.
Whachu talkin' 'bout Willis?
-Original Message-
From: Erik Price [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 2:53 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Bailey, Shane C. wrote:
Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can do), faster, is
a
standard (it is the Java language you know) and if you are going to spend
time learning a new language (${var} == pooPoo) then you would be better
off learning Java (assuming you don't already know it) cause then you
could
do scriptlets and middle tier coding and more whereas if you use your time
learning JSTL all you will know is JSTL.
Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes out with an
alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the importance of having
the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing scriptlets.
If it makes you happy $var is a legal Java variable name so you could just
write scriptlets with $var and no one would realize you weren't writing
JSTL
:)
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the $var UNIX
script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
What the crap are you talking about.
Erik
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RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Maybe you could post this to the ECS users group. Scriptlets are fine, but
tend to lend themselves to having lots of lines of code in a page that
doesn't actually generate html, which is tough to read if you are trying to
lay things out.
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the
$var UNIX script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
What are you talking about? ${var} is pretty standard in Ant.
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: August 8, 2003 11:21 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can
do), faster, is a
standard (it is the Java language you know) and if you are
going to spend
time learning a new language (${var} == pooPoo) then you
would be better
off learning Java (assuming you don't already know it) cause
then you could
do scriptlets and middle tier coding and more whereas if you
use your time
learning JSTL all you will know is JSTL.
Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes out with an
alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the
importance of having
the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing
scriptlets.
If it makes you happy $var is a legal Java variable name so
you could just
write scriptlets with $var and no one would realize you
weren't writing JSTL
:)
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the
$var UNIX script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
Bottom line is, yes, Struts tags aren't the best but JSTL is
not much better
and will probably be replaced with something not so ugly in
the future.
Just my .02 sense.
I like it how some people don't get disturbed by questions
about connecting
to a database with JDBC to the Struts user list but get mad
if you post a
differing opinion about the crappy way some tags were written that
interfaces with Struts code. What an ACE!
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 10:28 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- David Thielen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi;
For the logic and I18N taglibs - what do you recommend - using the
struts taglibs or the JSTL taglibs?
Definitely JSTL. They're more powerful, easier to use, potentially
faster, and a Java standard.
David
thanks - dave
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Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
So many things are a step backwards like config files for instance. J2EE is supposed to be for the Enterprise which means there is at least a DB and maybe the LDAP at your disposal yet people go back to storing stuff in files. I don't agree. You have to think about the time after the rollout - so, things which are not subject of change, IMHO are ok in config files. All other stuff it's already possible, read from database. So I can see no step backward. cheers Reinhard - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- David Thielen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi; For the logic and I18N taglibs - what do you recommend - using the struts taglibs or the JSTL taglibs? Definitely JSTL. They're more powerful, easier to use, potentially faster, and a Java standard. David thanks - dave __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- Yann Cébron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the logic and I18N taglibs - what do you recommend - using the struts taglibs or the JSTL taglibs? Definitely JSTL. They're more powerful, easier to use, potentially faster, and a Java standard. not to forget: there's a good chance that (in the future) containers will have their own optimized versions of the JSTL-tags, there are already some implemented in TC5.x Yeah, that's what I meant by potentially faster. I'm really glad to hear that Tomcat 5 has some of these tags optimized! David Yann - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
You got me there. lol
-Original Message-
From: Chen, Gin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 12:24 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Just like you never said JSF will replace JSTL I never said I was going to
eat a bunny. ;)
-Tim
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 12:05 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
It is nice to follow the heard sometimes but other times you just have to
step back and say, Can't we do any better?. I am not THAT closed minded
if I am convinced that the only real way to write tags to do what JSTL does
is to do it the current way then I will gladly use them I just think if
there is a better way then we should be about to talk about it.
The Big 3 car execs didn't want to talk about the future of the industry and
what was more user friendly and now look how they are paying.
I'm not mad. Just not convinced.
BTW, how could you eat those poor defenseless bunnies
:)
-Original Message-
From: Chen, Gin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 12:07 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Everyone take a deep breath and think of bunny rabbits.
Cute little bunnies
()()
('.')
()()
Hmm.. I'm getting hungry now.
-Tim
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:50 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Another debate. Your debate was to make me feel like I was doing something
wrong by posting my opinion. There was no debate.
The tags do speak for themselves and if you think that $var which Java
allows but is NEVER used is acceptable syntax for a tag then that speaks
volumes as well.
Never said, JSF will replace JSTL. I just said let's see what that
technology and others has in store in the near future. Java didn't have
every API and package when it first came out so, like I said, we will see
what JSF has to offer in the near future. I'm just hoping it is some
replacement for those step backwards tags.
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:51 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- Bailey, Shane C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I think scriptlets are ugly and shouldn't be used
but
like I said JSTL is not da bomb and if already know Struts tags I
wouldn't
go rewriting my code to JSTL until I have seen what JSF and any new
technology near by has in store.
JSF is not a replacement for JSTL. They complement each other.
I'm just saying all the reasons listed do not necessarily mean a whole
lot
since scriptlets can fit nearly everything said about JSTL but yet
everybody
agrees not to use scriptlets. I am just giving another opinion.
The question had nothing to do with scriptlets. It was about using JSTL
or Struts tags. I'm not going to participate in another JSTL debate. The
tags speak for themselves.
David
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:21 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can do), faster,
is a
standard (it is the Java language you know) and if you are going to
spend
time learning a new language (${var} == pooPoo) then you would be
better
off learning Java (assuming you don't already know it) cause then you
could
do scriptlets and middle tier coding and more whereas if you use your
time
learning JSTL all you will know is JSTL.
Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes out with an
alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the importance of
having
the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing
scriptlets.
If it makes you happy $var is a legal Java variable name so you could
just
write scriptlets with $var and no one would realize you weren't writing
JSTL
:)
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the $var UNIX
script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
Bottom line is, yes, Struts tags aren't the best but JSTL is not much
better
and will probably be replaced with something not so ugly in the future.
Just my .02 sense.
I like it how some people don't get disturbed by questions about
connecting
to a database with JDBC to the Struts user list but get mad if you post
a
differing opinion about the crappy way some tags were written that
interfaces with Struts code. What an ACE!
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 10:28 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- David
RE: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
BTW, how could you eat those poor defenseless bunnies They're very nice in a pie. Bunny stew is also pretty good. ;-) Simon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Bailey, Shane C. wrote:
Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can do), faster, is a
standard (it is the Java language you know) and if you are going to spend
time learning a new language (${var} == pooPoo) then you would be better
off learning Java (assuming you don't already know it) cause then you could
do scriptlets and middle tier coding and more whereas if you use your time
learning JSTL all you will know is JSTL.
Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes out with an
alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the importance of having
the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing scriptlets.
If it makes you happy $var is a legal Java variable name so you could just
write scriptlets with $var and no one would realize you weren't writing JSTL
:)
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the $var UNIX script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
What the crap are you talking about.
Erik
-
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RE: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Have you even tried Curried Bunny? It's Japanese curry I am talking about. BTW, how could you eat those poor defenseless bunnies First I have to do the tongue test in order to taste the flavoring, then I open up my mouth and slowly take in the rich, creamy chunk of bunny meat Me lilly hungie. -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: August 8, 2003 10:22 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs? BTW, how could you eat those poor defenseless bunnies They're very nice in a pie. Bunny stew is also pretty good. ;-) Simon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
I didn't mean to imply that who sees what and when and logic in the JSP is
always a form of business logic. That is a good example.
I am just trying to figure out a way so that all the logic in the JSPs isn't
duplicated if you need to also support the same functionality in a Swing
app.
I think I heard about a framework which attempts to determine views for Web
and Swing based apps already out there. Was it Eclipse?
Anyway, in Swing I don't think you need that drawing logic. Once the
components are set, you have an event which triggers showing the correct
tab. So, I am wondering if you can get rid of that in the JSPs with an
already written or future framework?
-Original Message-
From: Brown, Melonie S. - Contractor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 2:26 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
I agree that *business* logic shouldn't be in the view, but what about
formatting logic that is specific to web pages?
As an example, let's say that you had the following html code to do tabbed
menus: [borrowed from http://www.clagnut.com/writings/csstabs/]
div id=topnav
ul
lia href=#Home/a/li
lia href=# class=hereAbout/a/li
lia href=#News/a/li
/ul
/div
Would you consider the following to be bad?
div id=topnav
ul
li
c:forEach items=${menu.customizedMenuItems} var=perms
c:choose
c:when test='${perms.currentItem eq Y}'
a href=c:out value='${perms.link}'/
class=here
c:out value='${perms.description}'/
/a
/c:when
c:otherwise
a href=c:out value='${perms.link}'/
c:out value='${perms.description}'/
/a
/c:otherwise
/c:choose
/c:forEach
/li
/ul
Original Message
Subject: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 13:47:02 -0400
From: Bailey, Shane C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.jakarta.struts.user
[snip]
In theory it seems like there should be no logic in the View since 1. who
sees what and when could be considered business logic and 2. you would want
to try and make that who sees what where logic exist in a place where both
your Web app and Swing app (for instance) can get to it.
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RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
As long as they keep this part of the tag libraries: http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-02-2003/jw-0228-jstl-p5.html JSTL will be an asset to all MVC architectures out there!!! :-( - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
When I say I don't like $var in tags I mean more like I don't like script
like code in tags. That is why I was confused for a second that Ant didn't
have $var, I meant I am not used to seeing real script like code in Ant
e.g. c:when test=${item.type == 'book'} , note == in the tag. Ant has
no == (that I have had to use). You do need to be able to differentiate
between take this string literally or evaluate it so I do see why ant
does that. I meant Ant was able to make make files so much better without
having to have this: ant:compile condition=$target == install.
I think seeing == in JSTL tags really just turned me off because it makes
me think JSTL is a wolf (scriptlet code) in sheeps clothing.
I just don't think that
c:when test=${item.type == 'book'}
is easier to read (for a UI person) than
logic:equal name=whatever property=type value=book
Then a JSTL guy will probably say you don't have to use == you can use
eq or something but then I say that leaves it open so that == will be
used by some and it will be harder for UI people who are used to html.
In theory it seems like there should be no logic in the View since 1. who
sees what and when could be considered business logic and 2. you would want
to try and make that who sees what where logic exist in a place where both
your Web app and Swing app (for instance) can get to it.
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 1:20 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
The nice thing about those $var style tags is that they are very easy to
read, if you use nice names for things, most people can understand the
relationships and get something out of them. Also these translate well to
my email templates which are in Velocity macros. But I guess the real issue
is that XML tends to be pretty long winded, nice for data transport, not so
nice when you're trying to read the file on screen. I'm sorry about being
jaded against scriptlets, I've had a bad experience with inheriting software
with rough ones.
The good thing about scriptlets is that they compile, however. Has
anyone written something that wil reflect classes used in JSTL tags to at
least ensure that the relationships in the tags are possible? I would
totally be in to getting more out of compilers that way - this would make
refactoring so much better too.
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: August 8, 2003 11:43 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
You're right, ant does have $var in it I use my IDE to build
and forgot.
I just think that is a step backwards doing tags that way.
So many things are a step backwards like config files for
instance. J2EE is
supposed to be for the Enterprise which means there is at
least a DB and
maybe the LDAP at your disposal yet people go back to storing stuff in
files.
I am just trying to point out when things seem backwards.
Certain things
(like tags) should be getting more XML like and not more UNIX
script like.
Let's put our config in a datastore and let's either have
programmers doing
the UI and accept things like scriptlets or have UI
specialist and make it
easier on them but not having $var in the tags. That's all I
am saying.
I definitely was wrong about Ant, sorry.
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:41 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Maybe you could post this to the ECS users group. Scriptlets
are fine, but
tend to lend themselves to having lots of lines of code in a page that
doesn't actually generate html, which is tough to read if you
are trying to
lay things out.
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the
$var UNIX script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
What are you talking about? ${var} is pretty standard in Ant.
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: August 8, 2003 11:21 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can
do), faster, is a
standard (it is the Java language you know) and if you are
going to spend
time learning a new language (${var} == pooPoo) then you
would be better
off learning Java (assuming you don't already know it) cause
then you could
do scriptlets and middle tier coding and more whereas if you
use your time
learning JSTL all you will know is JSTL.
Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes
out with an
alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the
importance of having
the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing
scriptlets.
If it makes you happy $var is a legal Java
RE: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Just like you never said JSF will replace JSTL I never said I was going to
eat a bunny. ;)
-Tim
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 12:05 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
It is nice to follow the heard sometimes but other times you just have to
step back and say, Can't we do any better?. I am not THAT closed minded
if I am convinced that the only real way to write tags to do what JSTL does
is to do it the current way then I will gladly use them I just think if
there is a better way then we should be about to talk about it.
The Big 3 car execs didn't want to talk about the future of the industry and
what was more user friendly and now look how they are paying.
I'm not mad. Just not convinced.
BTW, how could you eat those poor defenseless bunnies
:)
-Original Message-
From: Chen, Gin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 12:07 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: [OT] RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Everyone take a deep breath and think of bunny rabbits.
Cute little bunnies
()()
('.')
()()
Hmm.. I'm getting hungry now.
-Tim
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:50 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Another debate. Your debate was to make me feel like I was doing something
wrong by posting my opinion. There was no debate.
The tags do speak for themselves and if you think that $var which Java
allows but is NEVER used is acceptable syntax for a tag then that speaks
volumes as well.
Never said, JSF will replace JSTL. I just said let's see what that
technology and others has in store in the near future. Java didn't have
every API and package when it first came out so, like I said, we will see
what JSF has to offer in the near future. I'm just hoping it is some
replacement for those step backwards tags.
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:51 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- Bailey, Shane C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I think scriptlets are ugly and shouldn't be used
but
like I said JSTL is not da bomb and if already know Struts tags I
wouldn't
go rewriting my code to JSTL until I have seen what JSF and any new
technology near by has in store.
JSF is not a replacement for JSTL. They complement each other.
I'm just saying all the reasons listed do not necessarily mean a whole
lot
since scriptlets can fit nearly everything said about JSTL but yet
everybody
agrees not to use scriptlets. I am just giving another opinion.
The question had nothing to do with scriptlets. It was about using JSTL
or Struts tags. I'm not going to participate in another JSTL debate. The
tags speak for themselves.
David
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:21 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Scriptlets are more powerful (you can do ANYTHING Java can do), faster,
is a
standard (it is the Java language you know) and if you are going to
spend
time learning a new language (${var} == pooPoo) then you would be
better
off learning Java (assuming you don't already know it) cause then you
could
do scriptlets and middle tier coding and more whereas if you use your
time
learning JSTL all you will know is JSTL.
Believe me, JSTL will be easy to replace if someone comes out with an
alternative. I am a programmer but I understand the importance of
having
the tags be similar to HTML tags and not like tags containing
scriptlets.
If it makes you happy $var is a legal Java variable name so you could
just
write scriptlets with $var and no one would realize you weren't writing
JSTL
:)
Why do you think Ant is so popular??? It got rid of all the $var UNIX
script
like crap and made it more like tags should be!!!
Bottom line is, yes, Struts tags aren't the best but JSTL is not much
better
and will probably be replaced with something not so ugly in the future.
Just my .02 sense.
I like it how some people don't get disturbed by questions about
connecting
to a database with JDBC to the Struts user list but get mad if you post
a
differing opinion about the crappy way some tags were written that
interfaces with Struts code. What an ACE!
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 10:28 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
--- David Thielen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi;
For the logic and I18N taglibs - what do you recommend - using the
struts taglibs or the JSTL taglibs?
Definitely JSTL. They're more powerful, easier to use
Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
I like it how some people don't get disturbed by questions about connecting to a database with JDBC to the Struts user list but get mad if you post a differing opinion about the crappy way some tags were written that interfaces with Struts code. What an ACE! [vote]: +1000 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
