Re: Struts is incomplete
Well why don't you just not use Struts and roll your own framework and come back in about a year and let us know how it went. I'm sure by then you will think Struts had everything you needed and you won't be crying like a little baby over some iterate tag and/or how bad the doc is. The doc worked just fine for me and I'm sure most of the developers on this list who use Struts. That's just MHO Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
Re: Struts is incomplete
I guess Struts development is not yet complete. *NO* software ever is complete or even bugfree. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app How about using JSTL's c:forEach ? Struts does not want or even attempt to solve every single problem when developing webapplications. Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... Why don't you contribute better/updated documentation if you feel a need for it? Or even get one of the very good books about Struts ? Yann - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Struts is incomplete
Why would they, your ignorance should talk for itself. What kind of mistakes did you find? Scream openly about mistakes without disclosing them is fairly silly. If you had something concrete to say people would at least help you. Quite frankly I found the book and the docs more than enough to strat with Struts. I finished several apps without a single look at the examples. This list is very valuable resource; most questions are answered in the matetr of minutes. How much better can it get? Alex. -Original Message- From: message message [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 6:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete I bet these people starting blocking messages now. From: Mark Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:16:30 +0100 man.. I think that's savagely out of order.. I doubt the time you have wasted compares to the amount of time such a framework saves you. Have a look at some other open source projects, you'll soon start to see that struts is well documented and there are plenty of examples. Its more than you'll get with most projects. On Monday, August 11, 2003, at 09:15 AM, message message wrote: I have made another observation which has cost me a lot of time, and should save you alot of time. As these people are used to releasing beta versions, their example applications are wriiten with the mentality of, it is only a beta it which will change. Frankly the example applications stink. I have tried struts-logon and that has load of mistakes in it , while the users are supposed to produce .war files that are production ready,tried and tested. I have purchased a book called in Struts in Action and the simple example application also doesn't work and needed correcting. From: message message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:42:01 +0400 I suggest you use a professional version. You will save yourself alot of time. These American companies have a culture of releasing beta functionality. Hyping it up. Getting people from the industry to test it free. Having had the benefit of your free time then they charge you by selling to you after having had your free feedback. I am surprised you have not noticed this cultural trend. That is the purpose of having mailing lists. It is to get free feedback amongst other things. Comparatively those of us who have to meet to spec are not allowed such luxuries of beta versions. The only upside is that if somebody(who doesn't want to spend on licensing fees) and wants to write a bespoke product can use the tools freely. How ever you have to take your chances with the stability. From: Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:01 +0530 I have done quite a bit of development without even knowing about Struts...and it went quite smoothly as far as crying like a little baby over an iterate tag is concerned,that was just an example...If inside 3-4 days i could find some basic thing which was not there in Struts what about in later stages of development... Anyway, somebody suggested reading a good book on struts...I will try that.. And one suggestion to those who are involved in the documentation: giving examples certainly helps ... -Original Message- From: Juan Alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Well why don't you just not use Struts and roll your own framework and come back in about a year and let us know how it went. I'm sure by then you will think Struts had everything you needed and you won't be crying like a little baby over some iterate tag and/or how bad the doc is. The doc worked just fine for me and I'm sure most of the developers on this list who use Struts. That's just MHO Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Do you Yahoo
Re: Struts is incomplete
I have already made postings about the mistakes I have found so far. From: Vic Cekvenich [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 07:23:18 -0400 There are many books, and many people offer on site public training demonstrating hands on how easy it is to do your example: Using tag libs, iterate and mulit row update in a master detail. Correctly you observed that learning is required to master any new skill. One way to look at Struts is (Churchill I think): Struts is the worst framework... except for every other one out there .V Jitesh Sinha wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List problems? [WAS: RE: Struts is incomplete]
Is there something wrong with the list mailer this week? Ive noticed lots of runs of empty replies from various different folk... -Original Message- From: Kommineni, Sateesh (IndSys) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 11 August 2003 19:55 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete -Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 5:25 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete I would suggest you do a little more learning and less whining. Struts is the predominant framework used in Java development today. I doubt that hundreds of thousands of developers are wrong and you are right. Unless you are discussing the Validator framework. ;-) -Original Message- From: message message [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 4:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete I have made another observation which has cost me a lot of time, and should save you alot of time. As these people are used to releasing beta versions, their example applications are wriiten with the mentality of, it is only a beta it which will change. Frankly the example applications stink. I have tried struts-logon and that has load of mistakes in it , while the users are supposed to produce .war files that are production ready,tried and tested. I have purchased a book called in Struts in Action and the simple example application also doesn't work and needed correcting. From: message message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:42:01 +0400 I suggest you use a professional version. You will save yourself alot of time. These American companies have a culture of releasing beta functionality. Hyping it up. Getting people from the industry to test it free. Having had the benefit of your free time then they charge you by selling to you after having had your free feedback. I am surprised you have not noticed this cultural trend. That is the purpose of having mailing lists. It is to get free feedback amongst other things. Comparatively those of us who have to meet to spec are not allowed such luxuries of beta versions. The only upside is that if somebody(who doesn't want to spend on licensing fees) and wants to write a bespoke product can use the tools freely. How ever you have to take your chances with the stability. From: Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:01 +0530 I have done quite a bit of development without even knowing about Struts...and it went quite smoothly as far as crying like a little baby over an iterate tag is concerned,that was just an example...If inside 3-4 days i could find some basic thing which was not there in Struts what about in later stages of development... Anyway, somebody suggested reading a good book on struts...I will try that.. And one suggestion to those who are involved in the documentation: giving examples certainly helps ... -Original Message- From: Juan Alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Well why don't you just not use Struts and roll your own framework and come back in about a year and let us know how it went. I'm sure by then you will think Struts had everything you needed and you won't be crying like a little baby over some iterate tag and/or how bad the doc is. The doc worked just fine for me and I'm sure most of the developers on this list who use Struts. That's just MHO Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED
RE: Struts is incomplete
I would suggest you do a little more learning and less whining. Struts is the predominant framework used in Java development today. I doubt that hundreds of thousands of developers are wrong and you are right. Unless you are discussing the Validator framework. ;-) -Original Message- From: message message [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 4:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete I have made another observation which has cost me a lot of time, and should save you alot of time. As these people are used to releasing beta versions, their example applications are wriiten with the mentality of, it is only a beta it which will change. Frankly the example applications stink. I have tried struts-logon and that has load of mistakes in it , while the users are supposed to produce .war files that are production ready,tried and tested. I have purchased a book called in Struts in Action and the simple example application also doesn't work and needed correcting. From: message message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:42:01 +0400 I suggest you use a professional version. You will save yourself alot of time. These American companies have a culture of releasing beta functionality. Hyping it up. Getting people from the industry to test it free. Having had the benefit of your free time then they charge you by selling to you after having had your free feedback. I am surprised you have not noticed this cultural trend. That is the purpose of having mailing lists. It is to get free feedback amongst other things. Comparatively those of us who have to meet to spec are not allowed such luxuries of beta versions. The only upside is that if somebody(who doesn't want to spend on licensing fees) and wants to write a bespoke product can use the tools freely. How ever you have to take your chances with the stability. From: Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:01 +0530 I have done quite a bit of development without even knowing about Struts...and it went quite smoothly as far as crying like a little baby over an iterate tag is concerned,that was just an example...If inside 3-4 days i could find some basic thing which was not there in Struts what about in later stages of development... Anyway, somebody suggested reading a good book on struts...I will try that.. And one suggestion to those who are involved in the documentation: giving examples certainly helps ... -Original Message- From: Juan Alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Well why don't you just not use Struts and roll your own framework and come back in about a year and let us know how it went. I'm sure by then you will think Struts had everything you needed and you won't be crying like a little baby over some iterate tag and/or how bad the doc is. The doc worked just fine for me and I'm sure most of the developers on this list who use Struts. That's just MHO Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL
[OT] RE: Struts is incomplete
Man! What stunning wit! This is intellectually beyond me...guess I'll sign off and go to the engrish-users list. On 12/08/2003 08:04 message message wrote: The only parasite I can see here between the two of us is you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Struts is incomplete
Personally IMHO I think there is a common misconception among some people that Struts solves more problems than it is intended to. I see people use the phrase The Struts way.. often with regards to a problem it's not intended to solve. Struts will give you alot, but it's not going to write your app for you, it doesn't tell you how to write your app either. my 2cents -Original Message- From: Greg Ludington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 10:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete (response about the initial iterate question at end): Frankly the example applications stink. I have tried struts-logon and that has load of mistakes in it , while Whom is this supposed to help? People who do not like struts? Nope -- if they do not like it, chances are they are not on this list. People who use and/or commit to struts? Nope -- because you do not give any indication of what you think is wrong with it, so they have no idea how to help you, or to improve the product. People on the fence, who may or may not use it? You might think you save these people some time by scaring them off, but those who leave based on a lack of infomration will likely have to make decisions without proper knowledge, which can also be dangerous. Criticism without focus or direction helps nobody. Struts is not for everybody, nor is it even for every project -- and nobody on this list would pretend it is. If it helps you, great. If it is not for your project, great -- pick the framework or development environment that works for you. And if struts is *close but not quite* what you need, well, that is where these lists and this model of development shines. If you rephrased your issue as follows: I find the example applications are not well-documented. My project needs a strong user authentication component, but the examples have bug X, Y, and Z in them. With problems in such a simple example, I do not think Struts can handle a login scheme. How do people get around X, Y, Z to implement robust user authentication? -- you might get a better response. Armed with a knowledge of which X, Y, and Z are your problems, people on this list can provide some manner of help on how to get around these problems. Sometimes problems arise because the developer does not understand a particular facet of struts -- it is complex, and there are points where fuller documentation would be nice. (Ooops -- I should be more specific -- maybe next time:) ). Sometimes it is a genuine problem or bug in the framework, in which case putting it on this list can bring it directly to the attention of the coders -- a responsiveness that does not exist elsewhere. In either case, a conceptual hurdle or a bug, a *specific*, polite post will often get you a solution. Sometimes it will not, but a vague post saying something stinks *NEVER* will. the users are supposed to produce .war files that are production ready,tried and tested. Yes, if you are a developer, you are expected to put together solutions that work. It is, after all, your job. If shortcomings in the examples lead you not to trust struts as a foundation, then you can a) use it, in which case it is also your job to dig past the examples, learn the underlying concepts, and adapt/fix it to your needs, or b) not use it, in which case it becomes your job to find something better, or to roll your own. You have that choice. I have purchased a book called in Struts in Action and the simple example application also doesn't work and needed correcting. Again, this helps nobody. What did not work? If you made specific corrections, I am sure Ted Husted would appreciate hearing them, and would gladly put them on his website Errata to help other people with the same issues. If you did not make corrections, but just had problems getting the samples running, post what problems you had, and perhaps people will help you get it working. These American companies have a culture of releasing beta functionality. Hyping it up. Getting people from the industry to test it free. Having had the benefit of your free time then they charge you by selling to you after having had your free feedback. I am surprised you have not noticed this cultural trend. I am not going to argue American software firms, except to point out that Apache is not a company, nor is it, strictly speaking, American. Yes, they expect bleeding-edge people to test it. On any given project, you have the option of taking nightly builds, which may or may not be stable, but will have newer whiz-bang features. Yes, these bleeding-edge testers do more work, and as a reward they get a significant voice in the shape of the products they use. If this is not for you, you can take something marked as stable, that might not have every feature, but has been more thoroughly tested. You get a *CHOICE* on how you want to participate. And after you make that choice and the Apache group takes your
RE: Struts is incomplete
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Jitesh Sinha wrote: Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:01 +0530 From: Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete I have done quite a bit of development without even knowing about Struts...and it went quite smoothly as far as crying like a little baby over an iterate tag is concerned,that was just an example...If inside 3-4 days i could find some basic thing which was not there in Struts what about in later stages of development... Why are you assuming that any given piece of software (especially at the framework level) needs to solve *all* of your problems? That is the kind of thinking pattern that leads to abominations like MFC (Microsoft Foundation Classes, one of the earlier attempts at providing an all in one framework for building client-server applications). Nobody is going to be able to do a good job at solving all problems for all users -- or even most problems for most users. Instead, you should employ a staple principle of object oriented design -- composition -- in your selection of foundation technologies :-). You're much better off using lightweight frameworks that do not impose any my way or the highway philosophy about what components you can mix and match together. In the particular case of iterating over things, there's lots of potential solutions (including logic:iterate and c:forEach) that interoperate just fine. The fact that they are not included in any single framework is a strength, not a weakness. People who expect one-and-only-one framework to satisfy all their needs are Microsoft's primary target market. Anyway, somebody suggested reading a good book on struts...I will try that.. Fortunately for you, there is a large variety of high quality books available on this topic. A good starting point for finding them is: http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/resources/books.html And one suggestion to those who are involved in the documentation: giving examples certainly helps ... Documentation is always helpful -- no question. In open source projects, that usually happens when complainers turn into contributors. Interested in contributing some good examples? Craig McClanahan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[OT] RE: Struts is incomplete
LOL. Mark, your sense of humor is doing well. ///;-) Good to see! At 10:06 AM 8/12/2003 -0400, Mark Galbreath wrote: byte me, you cretin! ;-) -Original Message- From: Micael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 9:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete May you find the freedom of acceptance of others. The struts user list is not responsible for books. People here are very helpful if you treat them with the dignity and respect we all deserve. Well, Mark doesn't, but everyone else does! LOL. Kidding, Mark, kidding! Love and kisses At 11:04 AM 8/12/2003 +0400, message message wrote: keep your abuse to yourself Mr. I have nothing to say so I might as well make a posting. Want ideas go and do reaserch. I paid for the book , I spent time correcting the examples. I can complain. The only parasite I can see here between the two of us is you. From: Paul Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: struts-user [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:21:40 +0100 On 11/08/2003 09:15 message message wrote: Frankly the example applications stink. The provide something better and stop being a parasite. Or don't use Struts... -- Paul Thomas +--+-- ---+ | Thomas Micro Systems Limited | Software Solutions for the Smaller Business | | Computer Consultants | http://www.thomas-micro-systems-ltd.co.uk | +--+-- ---+ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] LEGAL NOTICE This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] LEGAL NOTICE This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts is incomplete
--- Sgarlata Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Struts is intended as a framework in which you can develop your application. It does not and cannot do everything. Instead, the framework makes it very easy to plug in different components. In your particular case, I believe just about the entire logic tag library is deprecated in favor of the JSTL. The JSTL has the iteration tag you are looking for. The tags are not officially deprecated and are still maintained. We do encourage the use of JSTL over Struts' proprietary tags because the JSTL is more powerful, easier to use and a Java standard. David You can download an implementation of the JSTL from the Jakarta Taglibs project: http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/ Matt - Original Message - From: Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 11:07 AM Subject: Struts is incomplete I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] RE: Struts is incomplete
Sorry to say, but you were already removed from this thread for lack of grey matter. Better luck next time. -Original Message- From: Frost, Gary [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 9:32 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] RE: Struts is incomplete Please unsubscribe me from this 'thread' ;D Failing that, could we move this thread to the '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' list? Thanks Gary -Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 13 August 2003 8:19 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: [OT] RE: Struts is incomplete Man! What stunning wit! This is intellectually beyond me...guess I'll sign off and go to the engrish-users list. On 12/08/2003 08:04 message message wrote: The only parasite I can see here between the two of us is you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts is incomplete
There are many books, and many people offer on site public training demonstrating hands on how easy it is to do your example: Using tag libs, iterate and mulit row update in a master detail. Correctly you observed that learning is required to master any new skill. One way to look at Struts is (Churchill I think): Struts is the worst framework... except for every other one out there .V Jitesh Sinha wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Struts is incomplete
byte me, you cretin! ;-) -Original Message- From: Micael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 9:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete May you find the freedom of acceptance of others. The struts user list is not responsible for books. People here are very helpful if you treat them with the dignity and respect we all deserve. Well, Mark doesn't, but everyone else does! LOL. Kidding, Mark, kidding! Love and kisses At 11:04 AM 8/12/2003 +0400, message message wrote: keep your abuse to yourself Mr. I have nothing to say so I might as well make a posting. Want ideas go and do reaserch. I paid for the book , I spent time correcting the examples. I can complain. The only parasite I can see here between the two of us is you. From: Paul Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: struts-user [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:21:40 +0100 On 11/08/2003 09:15 message message wrote: Frankly the example applications stink. The provide something better and stop being a parasite. Or don't use Struts... -- Paul Thomas +--+-- ---+ | Thomas Micro Systems Limited | Software Solutions for the Smaller Business | | Computer Consultants | http://www.thomas-micro-systems-ltd.co.uk | +--+-- ---+ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] LEGAL NOTICE This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts is incomplete
May you find the freedom of acceptance of others. The struts user list is not responsible for books. People here are very helpful if you treat them with the dignity and respect we all deserve. Well, Mark doesn't, but everyone else does! LOL. Kidding, Mark, kidding! Love and kisses At 11:04 AM 8/12/2003 +0400, message message wrote: keep your abuse to yourself Mr. I have nothing to say so I might as well make a posting. Want ideas go and do reaserch. I paid for the book , I spent time correcting the examples. I can complain. The only parasite I can see here between the two of us is you. From: Paul Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: struts-user [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:21:40 +0100 On 11/08/2003 09:15 message message wrote: Frankly the example applications stink. The provide something better and stop being a parasite. Or don't use Struts... -- Paul Thomas +--+-+ | Thomas Micro Systems Limited | Software Solutions for the Smaller Business | | Computer Consultants | http://www.thomas-micro-systems-ltd.co.uk | +--+-+ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] LEGAL NOTICE This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Struts is incomplete
-Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 5:25 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete I would suggest you do a little more learning and less whining. Struts is the predominant framework used in Java development today. I doubt that hundreds of thousands of developers are wrong and you are right. Unless you are discussing the Validator framework. ;-) -Original Message- From: message message [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 4:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete I have made another observation which has cost me a lot of time, and should save you alot of time. As these people are used to releasing beta versions, their example applications are wriiten with the mentality of, it is only a beta it which will change. Frankly the example applications stink. I have tried struts-logon and that has load of mistakes in it , while the users are supposed to produce .war files that are production ready,tried and tested. I have purchased a book called in Struts in Action and the simple example application also doesn't work and needed correcting. From: message message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:42:01 +0400 I suggest you use a professional version. You will save yourself alot of time. These American companies have a culture of releasing beta functionality. Hyping it up. Getting people from the industry to test it free. Having had the benefit of your free time then they charge you by selling to you after having had your free feedback. I am surprised you have not noticed this cultural trend. That is the purpose of having mailing lists. It is to get free feedback amongst other things. Comparatively those of us who have to meet to spec are not allowed such luxuries of beta versions. The only upside is that if somebody(who doesn't want to spend on licensing fees) and wants to write a bespoke product can use the tools freely. How ever you have to take your chances with the stability. From: Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:01 +0530 I have done quite a bit of development without even knowing about Struts...and it went quite smoothly as far as crying like a little baby over an iterate tag is concerned,that was just an example...If inside 3-4 days i could find some basic thing which was not there in Struts what about in later stages of development... Anyway, somebody suggested reading a good book on struts...I will try that.. And one suggestion to those who are involved in the documentation: giving examples certainly helps ... -Original Message- From: Juan Alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Well why don't you just not use Struts and roll your own framework and come back in about a year and let us know how it went. I'm sure by then you will think Struts had everything you needed and you won't be crying like a little baby over some iterate tag and/or how bad the doc is. The doc worked just fine for me and I'm sure most of the developers on this list who use Struts. That's just MHO Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe
RE: Struts is incomplete
I have done quite a bit of development without even knowing about Struts...and it went quite smoothly as far as crying like a little baby over an iterate tag is concerned,that was just an example...If inside 3-4 days i could find some basic thing which was not there in Struts what about in later stages of development... Anyway, somebody suggested reading a good book on struts...I will try that.. And one suggestion to those who are involved in the documentation: giving examples certainly helps ... -Original Message- From: Juan Alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Well why don't you just not use Struts and roll your own framework and come back in about a year and let us know how it went. I'm sure by then you will think Struts had everything you needed and you won't be crying like a little baby over some iterate tag and/or how bad the doc is. The doc worked just fine for me and I'm sure most of the developers on this list who use Struts. That's just MHO Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts is incomplete
Mark! Don't do that!!! I just snorted coffee all over the keyboard! - Original Message - From: Mark Galbreath [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:06 PM Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete byte me, you cretin! ;-) -Original Message- From: Micael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 9:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete May you find the freedom of acceptance of others. The struts user list is not responsible for books. People here are very helpful if you treat them with the dignity and respect we all deserve. Well, Mark doesn't, but everyone else does! LOL. Kidding, Mark, kidding! Love and kisses At 11:04 AM 8/12/2003 +0400, message message wrote: keep your abuse to yourself Mr. I have nothing to say so I might as well make a posting. Want ideas go and do reaserch. I paid for the book , I spent time correcting the examples. I can complain. The only parasite I can see here between the two of us is you. From: Paul Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: struts-user [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:21:40 +0100 On 11/08/2003 09:15 message message wrote: Frankly the example applications stink. The provide something better and stop being a parasite. Or don't use Struts... -- Paul Thomas +--+-- ---+ | Thomas Micro Systems Limited | Software Solutions for the Smaller Business | | Computer Consultants | http://www.thomas-micro-systems-ltd.co.uk | +--+-- ---+ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] LEGAL NOTICE This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: List problems? [WAS: RE: Struts is incomplete]
Perhaps it is a reflection of cognitive content? -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 8:03 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: List problems? [WAS: RE: Struts is incomplete] Is there something wrong with the list mailer this week? Ive noticed lots of runs of empty replies from various different folk... -Original Message- From: Kommineni, Sateesh (IndSys) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 11 August 2003 19:55 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete -Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 5:25 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete I would suggest you do a little more learning and less whining. Struts is the predominant framework used in Java development today. I doubt that hundreds of thousands of developers are wrong and you are right. Unless you are discussing the Validator framework. ;-) -Original Message- From: message message [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 4:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete I have made another observation which has cost me a lot of time, and should save you alot of time. As these people are used to releasing beta versions, their example applications are wriiten with the mentality of, it is only a beta it which will change. Frankly the example applications stink. I have tried struts-logon and that has load of mistakes in it , while the users are supposed to produce .war files that are production ready,tried and tested. I have purchased a book called in Struts in Action and the simple example application also doesn't work and needed correcting. From: message message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:42:01 +0400 I suggest you use a professional version. You will save yourself alot of time. These American companies have a culture of releasing beta functionality. Hyping it up. Getting people from the industry to test it free. Having had the benefit of your free time then they charge you by selling to you after having had your free feedback. I am surprised you have not noticed this cultural trend. That is the purpose of having mailing lists. It is to get free feedback amongst other things. Comparatively those of us who have to meet to spec are not allowed such luxuries of beta versions. The only upside is that if somebody(who doesn't want to spend on licensing fees) and wants to write a bespoke product can use the tools freely. How ever you have to take your chances with the stability. From: Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:01 +0530 I have done quite a bit of development without even knowing about Struts...and it went quite smoothly as far as crying like a little baby over an iterate tag is concerned,that was just an example...If inside 3-4 days i could find some basic thing which was not there in Struts what about in later stages of development... Anyway, somebody suggested reading a good book on struts...I will try that.. And one suggestion to those who are involved in the documentation: giving examples certainly helps ... -Original Message- From: Juan Alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Well why don't you just not use Struts and roll your own framework and come back in about a year and let us know how it went. I'm sure by then you will think Struts had everything you needed and you won't be crying like a little baby over some iterate tag and/or how bad the doc is. The doc worked just fine for me and I'm sure most of the developers on this list who use Struts. That's just MHO Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED
RE: Struts is incomplete [OT]
Hmmm, and I thought all the trolls lived in Slashdot... ;) -Original Message- From: Jitesh Sinha [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 11:08 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Struts is incomplete I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message and its contents (to include attachments) are the property of Kmart Corporation (Kmart) and may contain confidential and proprietary information. You are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on information contained herein is strictly prohibited. Unauthorized use of information contained herein may subject you to civil and criminal prosecution and penalties. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message immediately. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts is incomplete
On 11/08/2003 09:15 message message wrote: Frankly the example applications stink. The provide something better and stop being a parasite. Or don't use Struts... -- Paul Thomas +--+-+ | Thomas Micro Systems Limited | Software Solutions for the Smaller Business | | Computer Consultants | http://www.thomas-micro-systems-ltd.co.uk | +--+-+ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] RE: Struts is incomplete
Please unsubscribe me from this 'thread' ;D Failing that, could we move this thread to the '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' list? Thanks Gary -Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 13 August 2003 8:19 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: [OT] RE: Struts is incomplete Man! What stunning wit! This is intellectually beyond me...guess I'll sign off and go to the engrish-users list. On 12/08/2003 08:04 message message wrote: The only parasite I can see here between the two of us is you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts is incomplete
keep your abuse to yourself Mr. I have nothing to say so I might as well make a posting. Want ideas go and do reaserch. I paid for the book , I spent time correcting the examples. I can complain. The only parasite I can see here between the two of us is you. From: Paul Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: struts-user [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:21:40 +0100 On 11/08/2003 09:15 message message wrote: Frankly the example applications stink. The provide something better and stop being a parasite. Or don't use Struts... -- Paul Thomas +--+-+ | Thomas Micro Systems Limited | Software Solutions for the Smaller Business | | Computer Consultants | http://www.thomas-micro-systems-ltd.co.uk | +--+-+ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts is incomplete
On 12/08/2003 08:04 message message wrote: The only parasite I can see here between the two of us is you. ROFL -- Paul Thomas +--+-+ | Thomas Micro Systems Limited | Software Solutions for the Smaller Business | | Computer Consultants | http://www.thomas-micro-systems-ltd.co.uk | +--+-+ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Struts is incomplete
-Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 5:25 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete I would suggest you do a little more learning and less whining. Struts is the predominant framework used in Java development today. I doubt that hundreds of thousands of developers are wrong and you are right. Unless you are discussing the Validator framework. ;-) -Original Message- From: message message [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 4:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete I have made another observation which has cost me a lot of time, and should save you alot of time. As these people are used to releasing beta versions, their example applications are wriiten with the mentality of, it is only a beta it which will change. Frankly the example applications stink. I have tried struts-logon and that has load of mistakes in it , while the users are supposed to produce .war files that are production ready,tried and tested. I have purchased a book called in Struts in Action and the simple example application also doesn't work and needed correcting. From: message message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:42:01 +0400 I suggest you use a professional version. You will save yourself alot of time. These American companies have a culture of releasing beta functionality. Hyping it up. Getting people from the industry to test it free. Having had the benefit of your free time then they charge you by selling to you after having had your free feedback. I am surprised you have not noticed this cultural trend. That is the purpose of having mailing lists. It is to get free feedback amongst other things. Comparatively those of us who have to meet to spec are not allowed such luxuries of beta versions. The only upside is that if somebody(who doesn't want to spend on licensing fees) and wants to write a bespoke product can use the tools freely. How ever you have to take your chances with the stability. From: Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:01 +0530 I have done quite a bit of development without even knowing about Struts...and it went quite smoothly as far as crying like a little baby over an iterate tag is concerned,that was just an example...If inside 3-4 days i could find some basic thing which was not there in Struts what about in later stages of development... Anyway, somebody suggested reading a good book on struts...I will try that.. And one suggestion to those who are involved in the documentation: giving examples certainly helps ... -Original Message- From: Juan Alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Well why don't you just not use Struts and roll your own framework and come back in about a year and let us know how it went. I'm sure by then you will think Struts had everything you needed and you won't be crying like a little baby over some iterate tag and/or how bad the doc is. The doc worked just fine for me and I'm sure most of the developers on this list who use Struts. That's just MHO Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe
RE: Struts is incomplete
(response about the initial iterate question at end): Frankly the example applications stink. I have tried struts-logon and that has load of mistakes in it , while Whom is this supposed to help? People who do not like struts? Nope -- if they do not like it, chances are they are not on this list. People who use and/or commit to struts? Nope -- because you do not give any indication of what you think is wrong with it, so they have no idea how to help you, or to improve the product. People on the fence, who may or may not use it? You might think you save these people some time by scaring them off, but those who leave based on a lack of infomration will likely have to make decisions without proper knowledge, which can also be dangerous. Criticism without focus or direction helps nobody. Struts is not for everybody, nor is it even for every project -- and nobody on this list would pretend it is. If it helps you, great. If it is not for your project, great -- pick the framework or development environment that works for you. And if struts is *close but not quite* what you need, well, that is where these lists and this model of development shines. If you rephrased your issue as follows: I find the example applications are not well-documented. My project needs a strong user authentication component, but the examples have bug X, Y, and Z in them. With problems in such a simple example, I do not think Struts can handle a login scheme. How do people get around X, Y, Z to implement robust user authentication? -- you might get a better response. Armed with a knowledge of which X, Y, and Z are your problems, people on this list can provide some manner of help on how to get around these problems. Sometimes problems arise because the developer does not understand a particular facet of struts -- it is complex, and there are points where fuller documentation would be nice. (Ooops -- I should be more specific -- maybe next time:) ). Sometimes it is a genuine problem or bug in the framework, in which case putting it on this list can bring it directly to the attention of the coders -- a responsiveness that does not exist elsewhere. In either case, a conceptual hurdle or a bug, a *specific*, polite post will often get you a solution. Sometimes it will not, but a vague post saying something stinks *NEVER* will. the users are supposed to produce .war files that are production ready,tried and tested. Yes, if you are a developer, you are expected to put together solutions that work. It is, after all, your job. If shortcomings in the examples lead you not to trust struts as a foundation, then you can a) use it, in which case it is also your job to dig past the examples, learn the underlying concepts, and adapt/fix it to your needs, or b) not use it, in which case it becomes your job to find something better, or to roll your own. You have that choice. I have purchased a book called in Struts in Action and the simple example application also doesn't work and needed correcting. Again, this helps nobody. What did not work? If you made specific corrections, I am sure Ted Husted would appreciate hearing them, and would gladly put them on his website Errata to help other people with the same issues. If you did not make corrections, but just had problems getting the samples running, post what problems you had, and perhaps people will help you get it working. These American companies have a culture of releasing beta functionality. Hyping it up. Getting people from the industry to test it free. Having had the benefit of your free time then they charge you by selling to you after having had your free feedback. I am surprised you have not noticed this cultural trend. I am not going to argue American software firms, except to point out that Apache is not a company, nor is it, strictly speaking, American. Yes, they expect bleeding-edge people to test it. On any given project, you have the option of taking nightly builds, which may or may not be stable, but will have newer whiz-bang features. Yes, these bleeding-edge testers do more work, and as a reward they get a significant voice in the shape of the products they use. If this is not for you, you can take something marked as stable, that might not have every feature, but has been more thoroughly tested. You get a *CHOICE* on how you want to participate. And after you make that choice and the Apache group takes your feedback for free, they will turn around and charge you *ZERO* dollars to use the software. That is the purpose of having mailing lists. It is to get free feedback amongst other things. True - the purpose of these mailing lists is to get feedback. That feedback can be in the form of discussions, complaints, or problems. If the discussion/complaint/problem is specific and to the point, it will get addressed. If it is not, the discussion will die, and the problem goes unresolved. Comparatively those of us who have to meet to spec are
RE: Struts is incomplete
I have made another observation which has cost me a lot of time, and should save you alot of time. As these people are used to releasing beta versions, their example applications are wriiten with the mentality of, it is only a beta it which will change. Frankly the example applications stink. I have tried struts-logon and that has load of mistakes in it , while the users are supposed to produce .war files that are production ready,tried and tested. I have purchased a book called in Struts in Action and the simple example application also doesn't work and needed correcting. From: message message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:42:01 +0400 I suggest you use a professional version. You will save yourself alot of time. These American companies have a culture of releasing beta functionality. Hyping it up. Getting people from the industry to test it free. Having had the benefit of your free time then they charge you by selling to you after having had your free feedback. I am surprised you have not noticed this cultural trend. That is the purpose of having mailing lists. It is to get free feedback amongst other things. Comparatively those of us who have to meet to spec are not allowed such luxuries of beta versions. The only upside is that if somebody(who doesn't want to spend on licensing fees) and wants to write a bespoke product can use the tools freely. How ever you have to take your chances with the stability. From: Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:01 +0530 I have done quite a bit of development without even knowing about Struts...and it went quite smoothly as far as crying like a little baby over an iterate tag is concerned,that was just an example...If inside 3-4 days i could find some basic thing which was not there in Struts what about in later stages of development... Anyway, somebody suggested reading a good book on struts...I will try that.. And one suggestion to those who are involved in the documentation: giving examples certainly helps ... -Original Message- From: Juan Alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Well why don't you just not use Struts and roll your own framework and come back in about a year and let us know how it went. I'm sure by then you will think Struts had everything you needed and you won't be crying like a little baby over some iterate tag and/or how bad the doc is. The doc worked just fine for me and I'm sure most of the developers on this list who use Struts. That's just MHO Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Struts is incomplete
-Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 5:25 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete I would suggest you do a little more learning and less whining. Struts is the predominant framework used in Java development today. I doubt that hundreds of thousands of developers are wrong and you are right. Unless you are discussing the Validator framework. ;-) -Original Message- From: message message [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 4:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete I have made another observation which has cost me a lot of time, and should save you alot of time. As these people are used to releasing beta versions, their example applications are wriiten with the mentality of, it is only a beta it which will change. Frankly the example applications stink. I have tried struts-logon and that has load of mistakes in it , while the users are supposed to produce .war files that are production ready,tried and tested. I have purchased a book called in Struts in Action and the simple example application also doesn't work and needed correcting. From: message message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:42:01 +0400 I suggest you use a professional version. You will save yourself alot of time. These American companies have a culture of releasing beta functionality. Hyping it up. Getting people from the industry to test it free. Having had the benefit of your free time then they charge you by selling to you after having had your free feedback. I am surprised you have not noticed this cultural trend. That is the purpose of having mailing lists. It is to get free feedback amongst other things. Comparatively those of us who have to meet to spec are not allowed such luxuries of beta versions. The only upside is that if somebody(who doesn't want to spend on licensing fees) and wants to write a bespoke product can use the tools freely. How ever you have to take your chances with the stability. From: Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:01 +0530 I have done quite a bit of development without even knowing about Struts...and it went quite smoothly as far as crying like a little baby over an iterate tag is concerned,that was just an example...If inside 3-4 days i could find some basic thing which was not there in Struts what about in later stages of development... Anyway, somebody suggested reading a good book on struts...I will try that.. And one suggestion to those who are involved in the documentation: giving examples certainly helps ... -Original Message- From: Juan Alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Well why don't you just not use Struts and roll your own framework and come back in about a year and let us know how it went. I'm sure by then you will think Struts had everything you needed and you won't be crying like a little baby over some iterate tag and/or how bad the doc is. The doc worked just fine for me and I'm sure most of the developers on this list who use Struts. That's just MHO Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe
RE: Struts is incomplete
Ha.. ha.. I can pin point so many problems in the existing so called perfect software/frameworks. Why dont you just contribute for this feature lacking. And I dont think there is not alternative available to what you want. Instead you could have asked for the solution of your problem then finding fault like this. -Original Message- From: Jitesh Sinha [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 8:38 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Struts is incomplete I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Cap Gemini Ernst Young Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts is incomplete
man.. I think that's savagely out of order.. I doubt the time you have wasted compares to the amount of time such a framework saves you. Have a look at some other open source projects, you'll soon start to see that struts is well documented and there are plenty of examples. Its more than you'll get with most projects. On Monday, August 11, 2003, at 09:15 AM, message message wrote: I have made another observation which has cost me a lot of time, and should save you alot of time. As these people are used to releasing beta versions, their example applications are wriiten with the mentality of, it is only a beta it which will change. Frankly the example applications stink. I have tried struts-logon and that has load of mistakes in it , while the users are supposed to produce .war files that are production ready,tried and tested. I have purchased a book called in Struts in Action and the simple example application also doesn't work and needed correcting. From: message message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:42:01 +0400 I suggest you use a professional version. You will save yourself alot of time. These American companies have a culture of releasing beta functionality. Hyping it up. Getting people from the industry to test it free. Having had the benefit of your free time then they charge you by selling to you after having had your free feedback. I am surprised you have not noticed this cultural trend. That is the purpose of having mailing lists. It is to get free feedback amongst other things. Comparatively those of us who have to meet to spec are not allowed such luxuries of beta versions. The only upside is that if somebody(who doesn't want to spend on licensing fees) and wants to write a bespoke product can use the tools freely. How ever you have to take your chances with the stability. From: Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:01 +0530 I have done quite a bit of development without even knowing about Struts...and it went quite smoothly as far as crying like a little baby over an iterate tag is concerned,that was just an example...If inside 3-4 days i could find some basic thing which was not there in Struts what about in later stages of development... Anyway, somebody suggested reading a good book on struts...I will try that.. And one suggestion to those who are involved in the documentation: giving examples certainly helps ... -Original Message- From: Juan Alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Well why don't you just not use Struts and roll your own framework and come back in about a year and let us know how it went. I'm sure by then you will think Struts had everything you needed and you won't be crying like a little baby over some iterate tag and/or how bad the doc is. The doc worked just fine for me and I'm sure most of the developers on this list who use Struts. That's just MHO Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Struts is incomplete
I suggest you use a professional version. You will save yourself alot of time. These American companies have a culture of releasing beta functionality. Hyping it up. Getting people from the industry to test it free. Having had the benefit of your free time then they charge you by selling to you after having had your free feedback. I am surprised you have not noticed this cultural trend. That is the purpose of having mailing lists. It is to get free feedback amongst other things. Comparatively those of us who have to meet to spec are not allowed such luxuries of beta versions. The only upside is that if somebody(who doesn't want to spend on licensing fees) and wants to write a bespoke product can use the tools freely. How ever you have to take your chances with the stability. From: Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:01 +0530 I have done quite a bit of development without even knowing about Struts...and it went quite smoothly as far as crying like a little baby over an iterate tag is concerned,that was just an example...If inside 3-4 days i could find some basic thing which was not there in Struts what about in later stages of development... Anyway, somebody suggested reading a good book on struts...I will try that.. And one suggestion to those who are involved in the documentation: giving examples certainly helps ... -Original Message- From: Juan Alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Well why don't you just not use Struts and roll your own framework and come back in about a year and let us know how it went. I'm sure by then you will think Struts had everything you needed and you won't be crying like a little baby over some iterate tag and/or how bad the doc is. The doc worked just fine for me and I'm sure most of the developers on this list who use Struts. That's just MHO Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Struts is incomplete
-Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 5:25 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete I would suggest you do a little more learning and less whining. Struts is the predominant framework used in Java development today. I doubt that hundreds of thousands of developers are wrong and you are right. Unless you are discussing the Validator framework. ;-) -Original Message- From: message message [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 4:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete I have made another observation which has cost me a lot of time, and should save you alot of time. As these people are used to releasing beta versions, their example applications are wriiten with the mentality of, it is only a beta it which will change. Frankly the example applications stink. I have tried struts-logon and that has load of mistakes in it , while the users are supposed to produce .war files that are production ready,tried and tested. I have purchased a book called in Struts in Action and the simple example application also doesn't work and needed correcting. From: message message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:42:01 +0400 I suggest you use a professional version. You will save yourself alot of time. These American companies have a culture of releasing beta functionality. Hyping it up. Getting people from the industry to test it free. Having had the benefit of your free time then they charge you by selling to you after having had your free feedback. I am surprised you have not noticed this cultural trend. That is the purpose of having mailing lists. It is to get free feedback amongst other things. Comparatively those of us who have to meet to spec are not allowed such luxuries of beta versions. The only upside is that if somebody(who doesn't want to spend on licensing fees) and wants to write a bespoke product can use the tools freely. How ever you have to take your chances with the stability. From: Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:01 +0530 I have done quite a bit of development without even knowing about Struts...and it went quite smoothly as far as crying like a little baby over an iterate tag is concerned,that was just an example...If inside 3-4 days i could find some basic thing which was not there in Struts what about in later stages of development... Anyway, somebody suggested reading a good book on struts...I will try that.. And one suggestion to those who are involved in the documentation: giving examples certainly helps ... -Original Message- From: Juan Alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Well why don't you just not use Struts and roll your own framework and come back in about a year and let us know how it went. I'm sure by then you will think Struts had everything you needed and you won't be crying like a little baby over some iterate tag and/or how bad the doc is. The doc worked just fine for me and I'm sure most of the developers on this list who use Struts. That's just MHO Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe
RE: Struts is incomplete
I have a document called Designing Enterprise Applications with the J2EEtm Platform, second Edition. This document tells me how Struts fits into J2EE. I don't think the issue was what Struts can do for you. We can read! We were complaining about other things like why should we pay weblogic when weblogic gets free advice by reading our emails then Weblogic charge us for their tool. For example I once attending a conference where software houses were displaying their products designed to solve a problem in a particular industry. When the salesman found out that I was a programmer for another company who was also displaying our solutoon. The Salesman wouldn't let me look at their product because I might ideas on writing a product just like theirs. From: Mike Jasnowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:04:24 -0400 Personally IMHO I think there is a common misconception among some people that Struts solves more problems than it is intended to. I see people use the phrase The Struts way.. often with regards to a problem it's not intended to solve. Struts will give you alot, but it's not going to write your app for you, it doesn't tell you how to write your app either. my 2cents -Original Message- From: Greg Ludington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 10:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete (response about the initial iterate question at end): Frankly the example applications stink. I have tried struts-logon and that has load of mistakes in it , while Whom is this supposed to help? People who do not like struts? Nope -- if they do not like it, chances are they are not on this list. People who use and/or commit to struts? Nope -- because you do not give any indication of what you think is wrong with it, so they have no idea how to help you, or to improve the product. People on the fence, who may or may not use it? You might think you save these people some time by scaring them off, but those who leave based on a lack of infomration will likely have to make decisions without proper knowledge, which can also be dangerous. Criticism without focus or direction helps nobody. Struts is not for everybody, nor is it even for every project -- and nobody on this list would pretend it is. If it helps you, great. If it is not for your project, great -- pick the framework or development environment that works for you. And if struts is *close but not quite* what you need, well, that is where these lists and this model of development shines. If you rephrased your issue as follows: I find the example applications are not well-documented. My project needs a strong user authentication component, but the examples have bug X, Y, and Z in them. With problems in such a simple example, I do not think Struts can handle a login scheme. How do people get around X, Y, Z to implement robust user authentication? -- you might get a better response. Armed with a knowledge of which X, Y, and Z are your problems, people on this list can provide some manner of help on how to get around these problems. Sometimes problems arise because the developer does not understand a particular facet of struts -- it is complex, and there are points where fuller documentation would be nice. (Ooops -- I should be more specific -- maybe next time:) ). Sometimes it is a genuine problem or bug in the framework, in which case putting it on this list can bring it directly to the attention of the coders -- a responsiveness that does not exist elsewhere. In either case, a conceptual hurdle or a bug, a *specific*, polite post will often get you a solution. Sometimes it will not, but a vague post saying something stinks *NEVER* will. the users are supposed to produce .war files that are production ready,tried and tested. Yes, if you are a developer, you are expected to put together solutions that work. It is, after all, your job. If shortcomings in the examples lead you not to trust struts as a foundation, then you can a) use it, in which case it is also your job to dig past the examples, learn the underlying concepts, and adapt/fix it to your needs, or b) not use it, in which case it becomes your job to find something better, or to roll your own. You have that choice. I have purchased a book called in Struts in Action and the simple example application also doesn't work and needed correcting. Again, this helps nobody. What did not work? If you made specific corrections, I am sure Ted Husted would appreciate hearing them, and would gladly put them on his website Errata to help other people with the same issues. If you did not make corrections, but just had problems getting the samples running, post what problems you had, and perhaps people will help you get it working. These American companies have a culture of releasing beta functionality
Re: Struts is incomplete
Struts is intended as a framework in which you can develop your application. It does not and cannot do everything. Instead, the framework makes it very easy to plug in different components. In your particular case, I believe just about the entire logic tag library is deprecated in favor of the JSTL. The JSTL has the iteration tag you are looking for. You can download an implementation of the JSTL from the Jakarta Taglibs project: http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/ Matt - Original Message - From: Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 11:07 AM Subject: Struts is incomplete I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts is incomplete
I bet these people starting blocking messages now. From: Mark Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:16:30 +0100 man.. I think that's savagely out of order.. I doubt the time you have wasted compares to the amount of time such a framework saves you. Have a look at some other open source projects, you'll soon start to see that struts is well documented and there are plenty of examples. Its more than you'll get with most projects. On Monday, August 11, 2003, at 09:15 AM, message message wrote: I have made another observation which has cost me a lot of time, and should save you alot of time. As these people are used to releasing beta versions, their example applications are wriiten with the mentality of, it is only a beta it which will change. Frankly the example applications stink. I have tried struts-logon and that has load of mistakes in it , while the users are supposed to produce .war files that are production ready,tried and tested. I have purchased a book called in Struts in Action and the simple example application also doesn't work and needed correcting. From: message message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:42:01 +0400 I suggest you use a professional version. You will save yourself alot of time. These American companies have a culture of releasing beta functionality. Hyping it up. Getting people from the industry to test it free. Having had the benefit of your free time then they charge you by selling to you after having had your free feedback. I am surprised you have not noticed this cultural trend. That is the purpose of having mailing lists. It is to get free feedback amongst other things. Comparatively those of us who have to meet to spec are not allowed such luxuries of beta versions. The only upside is that if somebody(who doesn't want to spend on licensing fees) and wants to write a bespoke product can use the tools freely. How ever you have to take your chances with the stability. From: Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts is incomplete Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:01 +0530 I have done quite a bit of development without even knowing about Struts...and it went quite smoothly as far as crying like a little baby over an iterate tag is concerned,that was just an example...If inside 3-4 days i could find some basic thing which was not there in Struts what about in later stages of development... Anyway, somebody suggested reading a good book on struts...I will try that.. And one suggestion to those who are involved in the documentation: giving examples certainly helps ... -Original Message- From: Juan Alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:50 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Struts is incomplete Well why don't you just not use Struts and roll your own framework and come back in about a year and let us know how it went. I'm sure by then you will think Struts had everything you needed and you won't be crying like a little baby over some iterate tag and/or how bad the doc is. The doc worked just fine for me and I'm sure most of the developers on this list who use Struts. That's just MHO Jitesh Sinha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Struts development is not yet complete. Since one of the things Struts does is providing tag libraries...now if these tags cannot do some basic functionalities(like iteration over a constant numbers which I had posted in the this mailing list),one cannot rely on it completely to develop his app Documentation is even worseone has to do hit and trial to understand what this tag will do... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
