Re: Bailey Point Functions

[Helmut Sonderegger]

From my homepage http://webland.lion.cc/vorarlberg/28/sonne.htm 
you can download "analemm.zip". It is the spreadsheet containing Rogers 
SeasonalMarkers. And there is also included a short explanation of these markers 
and information about the exactness
Helmut Sonderegger
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  John Carmichael 
  To: Sundial List 
  Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 4:48 
  PM
  Subject: Bailey Point Functions
  
  
  Hi Heiner:
   
  > Thanks for speedy reply.> Do you have jpeg of 
  the image?> Saw the Bailey Points on your website> and 
  understand the principle of it.> But how do you actually read times for 
  sunrise and sunset?> Is it the time on the Time Ribbon?> Who is 
  this Mr. Bailey? That is incredible.> Do you have more info on the math 
  of it?
   
  Here is the drawing of Roger Bailey's Seasonal Markers and 
  how they function.  Roger is a Canadian member of NASS and is hosting the 
  NASS conference next year in Banff.  He specializes in analemmatic 
  sundials.  Contact him for a mathematical explanation of his Bailey 
  Points. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   
  Since some people don't know how the Bailey Points are used 
  to tell the times of sunrises & sunsets, here is a drawing that explains 
  them.  If you stretch a string from a date on the dateline out beyond the 
  Time Ribbon so that it passes through the East Bailey Point (Seasonal Marker), 
  it will tell you the time of sunset on that date. In this drawing, as an 
  example, the purple line shows the time of sunset on Nov. 1.  A similar 
  line through the West Bailey Point will give you the time of sunrise on that 
  date.  Real simple!
  
  
  > >  - Original Message 
  -> >  From: Heiner Thiessen,> >  To: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  >  Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 1:52 AM> >  Subject: 
  Your analemamatic> >  Dear John,> >  I 
  visited your website and was very impressed by your> >  
  beautiful analemmatic dial. You say under 'Functions' that it reads> 
  >  times for sunrise and sunset as well as standard time after> 
  >  adjustment. How does that work? Still learning.> >  
  Heiner Thiessen> >  51 00 43N> >  00 56 
  36W

Re: Your new DC macro

[Helmut Sonderegger]

The Excel-Spreadsheet Analemma22.xls (zipped in analem22.zip) by Roger an me
also includes more than 1 time point per hour. You can download it from
webpage  http://webland.lion.cc/vorarlberg/28/sun.htm

Helmut Sonderegger

- Original Message -
From: "John Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Roger Bailey ALT." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Roger Bailey"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Sundial List" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:39 PM
Subject: Your new DC macro


> Hi Roger:
>
> I've been using your new DC macro that includes the Bailey Points. I
noticed
> however that you modified an older version of Fer's analemmatic macro that
> only shows hour point time increments.  Your modified DC macro would be
much
> more useful if you would include time points options for 1/2 hrs, 1/4 hrs,
> 1/6 hrs as Fer does in his updated version. (see attachment).
>
> Just a suggestion!
>
> John
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Roger Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Sundial Mail List" 
> Cc: "John Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 11:04 AM
> Subject: Seasonal Markers and FEROLOGY
>
>
> > Fer De Vries wrote a series of BASIC macros for Delta Cad that produces
a
> > design drawing and table of coordinates based on your input parameters,
> > latitude, longitude, size etc. These macros are available on the NASS
> > website, www.sundials.org The final one of the series
"hor_analem3_v2.bas"
> > adds what Fer calls "Day Circles" to the analemmatic sundial design.
These
> > circles that some people call "Lambert's Circles" go through the sunrise
> and
> > sunset points on the hour ellipse, the focus points of the ellipse and
the
> > date on the zodiac table.
> >
> > I have added a few lines of code to this macro to take the sunrise and
> > sunset points that Fer calculated and draw the straight lines through
the
> > seasonal marker points that some people call Bailey Points. The drawing
> > produced with this macro demonstrates both concepts well and clearly
shows
> > the difference. Fer suggested putting the Seasonal Marker lines on a
> > separate layer, like the Day Circle layer.  He added this so you can now
> > turn on and off each of these layers while working in Delta Cad, (View,
> Set
> > Layers, View Layers etc). Several of the slides in my  "seasonal Marker
> > "presentation were created using this macro.
> >
> > The macro is small, ~13 kb so I have attached it for your use and
> enjoyment.
> > Again I hope that this note and attachment get through the size filter.
> > Don't worry if you get a virus warning on this macro. Just save it to
your
> > disc before using it in Delta Cad.
> >
> > Roger Bailey
> > Walking Shadow Designs
> > N51 W115
> >
>

-

Bug in analemma22.xls

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Brian told me about a small bug in the spreadsheet 
analemma22.xls. The value for Winter solstice sunrise in cell H10 is wrong. The 
function MOD in cell H10 has to be removed (analogous to cells H20 and H21). The 
corrected version is now on my homepage ( http://webland.lion.cc/vorarlberg/28/sun.htm )
 
Many thanks to Brian for his 
information!
 
With my apologies
Helmut Sonderegger

Re: Dec. Compendium release

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Fred,
I got all perfect!
Thankyou
 
Helmut Sonderegger
Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch47.25 N,   9.59 
OHomepage: http://web.utanet.at/sondereh

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Fred Sawyer 

  To: Sundial List 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 3:17 
  PM
  Subject: Dec. Compendium release
  
  The December issue of The Compendium is 
  available for those NASS members who obtain it by download from the 
  Internet.  However, I have received notes from 3 such members telling me 
  they never received the userid and password information needed to accomplish 
  the download.
   
  If you are a NASS member expecting this download 
  information and you have not yet received it, please contact me so that I can 
  get it to you right away.
   
  Fred Sawyer
   

your webpage

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Fer,
I just had one more look on your webpage with the information on analemmatic
sundials. Therefore my question: Why did you not include the formula for the
date points of the dial? I know, one can see that very easy from the images
there, but perhaps it would be of some help for some visitors of this page.

sunny greetings
Helmut

-

Re: Heliodons

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Mac,

I think my new software for calculating analemmatic sundials could be a help
too. The analemmatic sundials may have an inclined dial plane or/and an
inclined gnomon. Shadow paths are included. Also sundials of the
Longwood-type are calculated. You can download a first beta-version from
webpage http://webland.lion.cc/vorarlberg/28/sun.htm
The program needs Windows.

Better help files and better information will follow later.
Feedback and hints on bugs would be appreciated!

Helmut Sonderegger

- Original Message -
From: "Mac Oglesby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sundial Mail List" 
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:12 PM
Subject: Heliodons


>
> Hello Friends,
>
> When I asked a diallist friend recently how to decide on the lengths
> necessary for the shadow casters on a dual-gnomon Foster-Lambert
> sundial, he suggested using a moving model with a light source to
> simulate the sun.
>
> I recalled seeing the "Heliodon" at the Energy Center of the Pacific
> Gas & Electric Company on the Saturday sundial tour during the NASS
> meeting in San Francisco in 2000. (The tour is summarized on the NASS
> website. Go to http://sundials.org and click on Conference News,
> select 2000 - San Francisco, California from the drop-down menu, and
> scroll down to the Saturday Sundial Tour link.)
>
> Info on heliodons may be found at many places on the internet (try a
> google.com search), or look at:
>
> http://arch.ced.berkeley.edu/resources/bldgsci/bsl/heliodon.html
>
> and
>
> http://www.industarts.com/proto/heliodon/heliodon.html
>
>
>
> But, of particular interest for home use:
>
> http://www.leeric.lsu.edu/bgbb/7/ecep/drafting/d/app-b.htm
>
> where plans for a simple, elegant and inexpensive heliodon are presented.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Mac Oglesby
> Vermont, USA
> -
>

-

Re: unequal hour lines

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Sara,
in my software, which is also on the NASS-repository, I draw quadrants with
temporal hour lines point by point. The circles are aequidistant date lines
(not declination lines itself). The hour lines are evaluated by computing
the day length of the particular days used and then divided by 12. Then the
Sun's altuitude for these hour points is calculated. This method is rather
simple for computers, but in this case I guess no simple formula for the
hour lines can be found.

The type of the resulting hour lines of course depends on the arrangement of
the arcs for the date lines or declination lines. In old quadrants
aequidistant declination lines are used and then arcs of circles seem to be
used for hour lines. As I do not now any literature about the exactness of
this
construction: Does anybody know such literature?

It would be an interesting question too if an arrangement of the date lines
can be found where all hour lines become straight lines or at least nearly
straight lines. Does anybody know an answer?

Helmut
Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: http://webland.lion.cc/vorarlberg/28/sun.htm


- Original Message -
From: "Sara Schechner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 2:55 PM
Subject: unequal hour lines


> Hi,
> I am working on a project that involves the traditional unequal hour lines
> (also known as seasonal and temporal hours) on a horary quadrant and an
> astrolabe.   In other words, I want to get the right arcs for use on an
> instrument that measures altitude of the sun and makes use of a solar
> declination scale along the radius of the instrument.  These arcs would be
> latitude specific, as on traditional instruments.
>
> What techniques have list members found to construct them?  Do you use
data
> points plotted?  geometric construction?
>
> Thanks for the advice and input!!
>
> Happy Dialing,
> Sara
> 42.38 N, 71.13 W
> Sara Schechner, Ph.D.
> David P. Wheatland Curator
> Collection of Historical Scientific Instruments
> Harvard University, Science Center B-6
> 1 Oxford Street, Cambridge MA 02138
> 617-496-9542 (Tel)
> 617-496-5932 (Fax)
>
> -
>

-

Software for analemmatic sundials

[Helmut Sonderegger]

I put the new version 1.2 of my software "Alemma" on my homepage. An
additional calculation method for "split analemmatical sundials" is included
and the images of the help file are improved.
If you find some bugs, please let me know!

Have fun
Helmut Sonderegger

Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch
47.25 N,   9.59 O
Homepage: http://web.utanet.at/sondereh

-

Re: Software SONNE

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Hello to all,
 
first of all I wish to thank all who gave me 
feedback about the the new version 2.01a (I am very sorry I mixed the numbers 
and wrote 2.10a).
 
After this feedback I made some improvements (also 
in the fotos of the the help file). Now version 2.02 is on my homepage. This 
version should last for the next time!
 
Many thanks to all who sent me helpful 
information!
Helmut
 
Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch47.25 N,   9.59 
OHomepage: http://sonne.at.gg

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Helmut 
  Sonderegger 
  To: sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de 
  Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 12:58 
  PM
  Subject: Software SONNE
  
  To all interested sundial friends,
   
  now version 2.10a of my sundial software SONNE is 
  for download on my homepage below. It has some new features (for instance also 
  input of dxf-files into DeltaCad).
   
  If you test it, please let me know about 
  problems, bugs, ... (Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
   
  Thanks fo any help
  Helmut Sonderegger
   
  Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch47.25 
  N,   9.59 OHomepage: http://sonne.at.gg
   

new vesion 4.0 of Software SONNE

[Helmut Sonderegger]

The new version 4.0 of my sundial software SONNE is for download on my 
website http://www.helson.at. Format of all sun tables is improved and 
additionally these tables can be saved in Excel format *.csv or text 
format *.txt. Also some changes/addons in the graph of sun positions and 
in horizon profiles.


Hints to improvements or bugs are appreciated.

Sunny days!
Helmut Sonderegger
www.helson.at



---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
http://www.avast.com

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: Metal cone

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Hi Ray,

I just came home from a longer holiday and found the discussion on rhe 
Hollander Dial.


My software "SONNE" calculates Hollander Dials too. I calculates 
horizontal and vertical Hollander Dials (also declining vertical). In 
some cases the angle of the cone apex becomes very important for the 
result. So it is important to see the results for different cone apexes. 
I have such a vertical declining sundial and it works perfect. (I hope 
the attachment is enclosed).


You can download the free software from my homepage http://www.helson.at
But I must tell you that BitDefender supposes my homepage is malware. 
Therefore I tested my homepage with https://www.virustotal.com/. This 
page tested my website on 63 antivirus programs and only BidDefender 
says it is not clean, all others find it to be clean. Until now I could 
not find the reason why BitDefender judges it as malware.


Bst wishes
Helmut Sonderegger



Am 19.08.2015 um 19:42 schrieb Ray:

Hi Roger,

I did a search for "NASS Compendium 14-2 "Hollander Dial Software";
unfortunately the link to find a DeltaCAD marco was not available or I
missed it, or perhaps you have to be a member of the North American
Sundial Society to access it.  Do you have a direct link to the Marco
for the Hollander Sun Dial?; I am also interested in making one.
Thank you,
Ray
N043., W077.
flowercity14...@gmail.com

On 8/18/15, Roger Bailey  wrote:

Hi Dan,

As you consider conical gnomons, pay attention to the conical sundials of
Hendrik Hollander, the winner of the 2006 Sawyer Award. His conical
bi-gnomon sundials could tell clock time. Here is the note on his award.

"The 2006 Sawyer Dialing Prize has been awarded to Hendrik Hollander for his
innovative design of a mean-time planar sundial with oblique conical gnomon
and modified hour lines and day curves – resulting in a sundial adapted to
modern timekeeping while retaining the aesthetic appeal of the familiar dial
face."

Google his name and sundials to see what his conical sundials can do. A link
to this article published in the NASS Compendium 13-3 will come up. Also
check the digital bonus with NASS Compendium 14-2 "Hollander Dial Software".


Regards,
Roger Bailey
NASS Secretary


From: Dan Uza
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 11:16 AM
To: sundial@uni-koeln.de
Subject: Metal cone


Hello all !


Any idea how much a metal cone would cost and where to buy it online? The
kind you can use as gnomon - Ebay has loads of punk spikes on offer, but
they are too small.


Thanks!


Dan Uza





---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial







No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6086 / Virus Database: 4392/10442 - Release Date: 08/15/15


---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial





---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: Metal cone

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Hi, David,

thank you very much for your hints and helpful suggestions. Yes, I made 
my homepage with a very old page-generating tool. Now I know what to do 
and I will do that as soon as I have some free time.


Once more many thanks for your help and best wishes
Helmut


Am 23.08.2015 um 19:24 schrieb David Andersson:

In message <55d9cd4c.8030...@utanet.at>
   Helmut Sonderegger  wrote:


You can download the free software from my homepage http://www.helson.at

But I must tell you that BitDefender supposes my homepage is malware.
Therefore I tested my homepage with https://www.virustotal.com/. This
page tested my website on 63 antivirus programs and only BitDefender
says it is not clean, all others find it to be clean. Until now I could
not find the reason why BitDefender judges it as malware.

Best wishes
Helmut Sonderegger



Hi, Helmut

Unfortunately, your website has not been created to the agreed international
W3C standards - and it also uses "frames", which have long been 'deprecated'.

It looks like the website has been produced with "HotMetal", (or a similar
page-generating tool), which are well known to produce coding which might
only work on some (but not ALL) 'Browsers' - so you are safer to check all
of your pages via the "W3C Validator", at the URL  http://validator.w3.org


Personally, I would get rid of the "hmpro4.dtd" - which appears after the
DOCTYPE declaration, as this seems to seriously 'confuse' that Validator.


I hope it helps, but other people might have some alternative suggestions.


Sincerely,

David Andersson.






---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

website not accessible

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Dear dialists

I am sorry to let you know that my website www.helson.at has been hacked 
repeatedly and will not be on the web for the next time. So you cannot 
download the last version of my sundial software SONNE or ALEMMA which 
are free without any limitations.


I anybody of you wishes to get it please let me know by personal mail. I 
could send you the packed software (Virus-proofed!) as an attachment (7 
MB about).


Best wishes for Christmas and lots of sun in the New Year
Helmut Sonderegger

---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

My website is back

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Dear sundial friends,
after hacking attacks my site www.helson.at is back on the web. It is 
proofed and free of virus and malware.


So you can download and use the last versions of my sundial software 
"Sonne" and "Alemma". As ever, all my sundial software is freeware. if  
there is any problem, please, let me know.


Helmut Sonderegger
h.sondereg...@untanet.at
www.helson.at

---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

my new mail-address

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Dear sundial friends,

my mail-address h.sondereg...@utanet.at runs out this month April.
My new address is
   h.sondereg...@gmx.net

Helmut Sonderegger
www.helson.at

---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re:

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Hi sundial friends,

 a new  version 2.1c of my software Alemma.exe is for download on my 
website www.helson.at. it contains many additional types of analemmatic 
sundials.


All who received my beta version Alemma 2.0 at the last NASS-conference 
in june2016 please, delete this version as it contains one erroneous table.


Best wishes
Helmut Sonderegger
---

https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial



--
Helmut Sonderegger
www.helson.at

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: Sawyer Dialing Prize 2016

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Dear Roger
my congratulations for the award of the Sawyer Dialing Prize. I think 
your idea of two single points as sunrise and sunset marks in 
analemmatic sundials is great. I always include them in constructions 
for analemmatic sundials and very often I name them "Bailey Points".

Helmut Sonderegger

Am 30.07.2016 um 06:09 schrieb Roger Bailey:
Roger Bailey is pleased to have receive the NASS Sawyer Dialing Prize 
for 2016. The certificate recognizes Roger for "consistently showing 
the dialing community that all you need to know in life can be learned 
from studying sundials, and for using that study to advance the theory 
and practice of dialing." For details see 
http://sundials.org/index.php/features/sawyer-dialing-prize
On receiving the award Roger's presentation was "That is a Good 
Question".  Here he pointed out that most of his achievements in the 
art and science of dialing was sparked by answering good questions, 
questions like the shadow lengths or the time and direction of sunrise 
sunset on analemmatic sundials or time systems on Islamic 
sundials. The theme was "Ask and you shall receive". He remains open 
to good questions.

Roger Bailey
NASS Secretary
Walking Shadow Designs


---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial



--
Helmut Sonderegger
www.helson.at

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Annual meeting of the Austrian sundial group

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Dear list members, 
 
this year the annual meeting of the Austrian 
sundial group takes place in Oberperfuss near Innsbruck. This is the birthplace 
of Peter Anich, a farmer and surveyor of the 18th century. There are still 8 or 
9 sundials by Peter Anich perserved in this area. They belong to the most 
beautiful sundials in Austria.
The meeting is from Sept. 23th to Sept. 25th 2004. 
If anybody of you is interested to join, please write to me (email-address 
below).
 
Helmut Sonderegger
 
Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch47.25 
N,   9.59 Oemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://web.utanet.at/sondereh

Software SONNE

[Helmut Sonderegger]

To all interested sundial friends,
 
now version 2.10a of my sundial software SONNE is 
for download on my homepage below. It has some new features (for instance also 
input of dxf-files into DeltaCad).
 
If you test it, please let me know about 
problems, bugs, ... (Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
 
Thanks fo any help
Helmut Sonderegger
 
Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch47.25 
N,   9.59 OHomepage: http://sonne.at.gg
 

Re: A Vote of thanks.

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Tony,
many thanks for your kind notice on the annual meeting of the Austrian
sundial group GSA in Oberperfuss.
We were complimented by many participants on the organization of the meeting
in Oberperfuss. In particular, the lecture's quality were pointed out. And
your lecture on your sundial in Longyrearbyen  was very impressive too (look
at webpage: http://www.longyearbyen.net/sun )

I also would like to point out to all sundial-friends Werner Riegler's new
type of sundial, on which he had a lecture in Oberperfuss. Have a look to
http://riegler.home.cern.ch/riegler/sundials.htm or
http://riegler.home.cern.ch/riegler/sundial/hauptseite.htm


Helmut Sonderegger

Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch
47.25 N,   9.59 O
Homepage: http://web.utanet.at/sondereh
- Original Message -
From: "tony moss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sundial Mail List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 11:45 AM
Subject: A Vote of thanks.


Fellow shadow watchers,
   This is just a brief note to thanks everyone at the
recent Austrian sundial conference in Oberperfuß who made our stay so
enjoyable.   We had three days of new friends and learning experiences in a
truly beautiful setting with a dazzling sundial tour included.  It takes a
lot to extract a gasp of wonderment from me but I was running out of gasps
by the end.

Having finally sorted my backlog of emails I must also thank those who
responded positively to my re-worked website and will pass on all the
constructive comments to my good friends who designed it.

Tony Moss

-

-

sundials in Cyprus

[Helmut Sonderegger]

A friend of mine is visiting Cyprus and asked me, 
if he could find sundials in Cyprus. Who of you can help?
 
Helmut Sonderegger
Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch47.25 
N,   9.59 OHomepage: http://web.utanet.at/sondereh

new version of software SONNE

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Dear fellow dialists,
 
I put the new version 2.1 of my software SONNE on 
my webpage (the address is below). Also the final version of StundLin, which 
does the "Recalculation" for vertical sundials, discussed in this list some 
months ago, is there.
 
Have fun and if you find bugs or errors please let 
me know.
 
Helmut Sonderegger
Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch47.25 
N,   9.59 OHomepage: http://web.utanet.at/sondereh

ReCalculations

[Helmut Sonderegger]

A few months ago, we had a discussion on "Reverse 
Engineer Sundials" to calculate latitude and deviation of a sundial, by 
measuring the angles of hour lines.
Fer has put some results together in an Excel 
- spreadsheet and sent to interested sundial friends.
 
Now I wrote a Windows-Program which does these 
calculations (and some others too). I put the beta-version of it on my homepage 
http://www.sonne.at.gg . For those who are 
interested, please download it and let me know about proposals for improvement 
and about bugs to be deleted.
 
Thanks for your help!
Helmut Sonderegger
 
Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch47.25 
N,   9.59 OHomepage: http://web.utanet.at/sondereh

Ring dials (farmer's ring)

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Who can help me?
Which is the oldest report on these simple ring 
sundials, often called farmer's ring. I only know of this type since about 
1400 (Zinner writes in one of his books that Regiomontan and Peuerbach were 
probably the first constructors).
Are older ones in any museums? ... or in any 
literature?
Helmut Sonderegger
 
Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch47.25 
N,   9.59 OHomepage: http://web.utanet.at/sondereh

Re: Ceiling Dial (was: Satellite Outage)

[Helmut Sonderegger]

You also could download my software SONNE from my homepage below. In the
submenu of menu "Calculations" you can generate tabels of EoT with longitude
correction included. Input of year and your location is possible. This also
could help you.

Helmut Sonderegger
47.25 N,   9.59 O
Homepage: http://web.utanet.at/sondereh
- Original Message -
From: "Th. Taudin Chabot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: Ceiling Dial (was: Satellite Outage)


> Brooke,
> The sun is every day exactly South on a different time if you want to be
> very exact. After 4 years the pattern repeats itself moer or less, but if
> you want it exact it will be shifted a little bit.
> But I calculated for this century the mean timeequation for each date and
> you can use that to find out how much noon is from direct South.
> Look at http://www.chabot.demon.nl/sundials/sunmeangmt.htm, there is also
a
> downloadable file with the values which you can find at
> http://www.chabot.demon.nl/sundials/index3.htm
>
> Thibaud Chabot
>
>
> At 17:32 10-04-2005, you wrote:
> >Hi:
> >
> >I've been marking the ceiling exactly at noon PST and just also started
to
> >include noon PDT.
> >It would be interesting to add a line for when the Sun is South and for
> >the equinox.
> >Can someone email to me a list of for each day for a year from now the
> >exact time when the Sun is South?
> >The mirror on the windowsill is at: 123:09:50.5 N, 39:11:24.6 W, 900 feet
> >above mean sea level.
> >
> >Have Fun,
> >
> >Brooke Clarke
> >
> >--
> >w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
> >w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
> >http://www.precisionclock.com
> >
> >
> >-
>
> -
> Th. Taudin Chabot, home email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -
>

-

Re: Sonne Software for Shepherd Dials

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Hello Roger,
sorry for my late answer. I am not  online every day.

I think already Fer sent you an answer. But here it is for all interested:
The Equation of time is included in software SONNE. For your problem
1. Select "cylindrical Sundial" in menu "Options / Type of Sundial" (or key
F6)
2. Select menu "Options / Parameters of Sundial"  (or key F7): In the
tabsheet for cylinder sundials  you can select box "Construction with
Equation of Time"
3. Menu "Display / Drawing the Sundial" (or key F8) draws the sundial.

If anybody needs some more help, please let me know!
Helmut

Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch
47.25 N,   9.59 O
Homepage: http://web.utanet.at/sondereh
- Original Message -
From: "Roger Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sundial Mail List" ; "Helmut Sonderegger"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 6:50 AM
Subject: Sonne Software for Shepherd Dials


> Hello Helmut,
>
> I hope you don't mind me sharing this note with the mailing list.
>
> I am helping my grandson with a science fair project and he is interested
in
> making a cylindrical sundial. Really, it was his suggestion. I know the
> theory for altitude dials but needed to provide a specific design for his
> location. I was pleased to find that your program "Sonne" includes
> cylindrical or Shepherd dials as one of the options available. Excellent!
> After checking the version distributed with the NASS Compendium, I
> downloaded the latest version from your website.
> http://web.utanet.at/sondereh/sun.htm
>
> I am very pleased with the performance of the program. It allows me to
> specify the location and size to get a specific design. It allows for
local
> or time zone time. This is great. My design problem is now almost
completed.
> Thanks for making the program available. I have not spent much time
learning
> all the options but I did find the English/German option. This is a great
> help for people like me with limited language skills.
>
> My only problem so far is the equation of time correction. I could not
find
> this option for this type of sundial. Has it been included? Did I miss it?
> Has any one else included this option in a similar program to give
"standard
> time" on a cylinder dial?
>
> Regards,
>
> Roger Bailey
> Walking Shadow Designs
> N 48.6  W 123.4
>
> -
>
> 
> This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
> service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
> anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
> http://www.star.net.uk
> 
>
>

-

Re: Sundial drawing request

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Thad
at the moment I am working on the new version of my 
software SONNE which includes the construction of ring dials as shown on page 
158 in Waughs book. This version is nearly finished and could be helpful for 
you. So I guess in one or two weeks the beta-version of my software update 
including ring dials (in German we call them farmers rings) well be on my 
webpage for download.
 
Helmut Sonderegger
Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch47.25 N,   9.59 
EHomepage: http://web.utanet.at/sondereh

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Thaddeus 
  Weakley 
  To: Sundial List 
  Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 1:38 AM
  Subject: Sundial drawing request
  
  Sundial Enthuiasts,
   
  Does anyone have simple, clear drawings of horizontal and armillary dials 
  that show a drawing of the sun casting a shadow that would be good to put with 
  a short explanation of dial?  The explanation is going to be geared to 
  the general public.  An example of the type of drawing I am looking 
  for exists on pg 158 of Waugh's SUNDIALS - Their Theory and Construction of a 
  ring dial.  
   
  This information is going to be printed and given out to the general 
  public, so copyrights may be an issue.
   
  Thanks,
   
  Thad Weakley
  __Do You 
  Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com 

New version of software SONNE

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Dear sundial friends,
 
a new beta-version of my software SONNE is 
ready for download from my webpage ( http://web.utanet.at/sondereh ). I 
added the construction of simple ring sundials (in German "Bauernringe" = 
farmers rings) .
 
Hints on possible improvements, errors, bugs,  
are welcome. 
 
Thanks
Helmut Sonderegger
Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch47.25 
N,   9.59 E 

Re: SONNE

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Dear sundial friends,
 
first of all many thanks for all your feedback. Your hints were very 
useful. I am working now to make the improvements suggested!
 
Here 2 answers to your questions David:
1) Printing of the coordinates is possible for horizontal, vertical 
and inclining sundials: Just save the construction displayed as dxf- or 
plt-file. Then in the panel displayed the file name is input and one 
can decide too if the coordinates are printed or saved as text file.
 
2) Larger prints than A4 are possible if the construction is saved as file. 
Then this file can be input into a graphic program (for instance CorelDraw or 
AutoCad). There enlargement for prints or plots can be done easily. This is very 
useful too for output to DIN-A0-plotters.
 
Helmut Sonderegger
Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch47.25 N,   9.59 
EHomepage: http://web.utanet.at/sondereh

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Cc: sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de 
  Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 1:20 
  PM
  Subject: SONNE
  
  Good program, and I use it frequently.
  Quite often, when drawing out large sundials for cutting in stone, I need 
  to have co-ordinates of date curves so that I can get the shape correct, 
  particularly at hours well before and after noon. Is it possible to extract 
  co-ordinates (cartesian or otherwise) from the Sonne program? If so, 
how?
  Alternatively, can I get the computer to print out versions to a 
  (pre-determined) scale larger than A4? If so, how?
  David Brown
  Somerton,
  Somerset,
  UK

Re: Ring dial corrections between latitudes

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Thad,
 
A ring dial (farmers ring) never works correct in 
different latitudes. It just cannot be constructed for different 
latitudes at the same time (except you put on its inner side 2 different scales 
for different latitudes).
 
If ring dials are constructed in the correct 
way than they work exactly and do not show any errors. But of course there is 
the problem that you cannot read exactly the time displayed if the ring 
diameter and/or the ring  width  is to small.
 
Helmut
 
Sonnengasse 24,  A-6800 Feldkirch47.25 N,   9.59 
EHomepage: http://web.utanet.at/sondereh

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Thaddeus 
  Weakley 
  To: Sundial List 
  Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 10:24 
  AM
  Subject: Ring dial corrections between 
  latitudes
  
  Dear Fellow Dialists:
   
  To ensure I am not duplicating something that has already been done, has 
  anyone developed a formula for showing the error a ring dial (with a fixed 
  gnomon say 40N) will read when in different latitudes?  I am trying to 
  express more detail than I have in bold below but I'm not sure such can be 
  easily done, considering the variation in sun altitude throughout a day in 
  different latitudes.  Or have I already expressed the situation about as 
  well as it can be described to a general audience?  
   
  Also, what ring dial graphing programs are out there?  I am just 
  aware of SONNE.
   
  Thanks,
   
  Thad Weakley
  42.2N 83.8W  
  Ann Arbor, Michigan
   
  
  RING DIAL:
  The Ring Sundial is an instrument that gives you the current 
  time by casting a bead of light rather than a shadow.
  
Hang the sundial from the chain to have the maximum exposure to 
sunlight. 
Position the sundial to allow sunlight to shine through the hole on the 
outer ring. 
The bead of light that is cast on the 
inner ring indicates the hour and the season.
  Such dials are made for particular latitude. While these dials are 
  readable in other latitudes, there will be error as easy calibration isn’t 
  available. In general in lower latitudes the dial will read fast in the a.m. 
  and slow in the p.m. In higher latitudes the dial will read slow in the a.m. 
  and fast in the p.m. 
  
  
  Start 
  your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: Horizonscope

[Helmut Sonderegger]

A small mathematical problem about the 
Horizontoskop: 
 
I found, the formula used for the circles of 
altitude in Oughtread sundials  and in the Horizontoskop are are a little 
bit different.  Or am I wrong?
 
Helmut Sonderegger 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Tonino 
  Tasselli 
  To: sundial@uni-koeln.de 
  Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:13 
  PM
  Subject: Horizonscope
  
  Hi all,
  I have read with curiosity all the mails regarding the 
  interesting topic of the horizonscope. Indeed I see that there are two basic 
  instrument that let us at a glance to forecast the sun path for a whole 
  year:
  The horizonscope based on the Oughtread sundial with the 
  dome and the horizonscope based on the transparent cylinders with the 
  Altitude-Azimut diagrams (e.g. Sabansky charts).
  I would also to inform that, from another point of view, 
  the procedure to detetect the horizon (in the sense of the skyline 
  depicted, for example, by the mountains) has been used on many sundials 
  in Italy designed by the gnomonist Luigi Ghia. The mountains countour (Luigi 
  lives in Val d'Aosta very close to the Alpes) has been 
  taken  using  a theodolite and reproduced on the sundial 
  plane (right left and upside-down like in a camera). The aesthetic effect of 
  this irregular line is remarkable. The gnomon indicates, for example, the 
  point where the sun is rising and the name of the mountain or of the 
  valley can be read on the sundial itself. On the italian 
  bulletin "Gnomonica Italiana"  n. 7 there is a paper, written by the 
  gnomonist Riccardo Anselmi, describing a variation of the Ghia's 
  method. To pick up the horizon, Riccardo uses a mirror applied to 
  the wall near the gnomon base and traces the skyline  like a carbon 
  copy and then applies on the sundial this line right-left 
  upside-down. 
  Who is interested to get more information or pictures 
  about the Ghia's method can strightly contact him at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sunny spring days to all
  Tonino Tasselli
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: sundial@uni-koeln.de 
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:31 
PM
Subject: Re: site examiner
Yes, several people sent pix of the horizontoskop, 
and I like it very very much, but it looks like I'd have to purchase cards 
for every latitude, and some cards may not be available, though close 
enough, I think.  So then I thought perhaps a wide-angle mirror (convex 
mirror) or mirror garden ball with lines scribed on it and tilt it correctly 
and restrict the position of the observer's eye.  Problem is that the 
position of the image is at the center of curvature, hence the restricted 
eye position to correlate with the externally-scribed lines.  Then I 
started wondering how close I could get to the horizontoskop's capabilities 
in something I could actually build.   If the 
horizontoskop and its cards were cheap and readily available, I would 
purchase one, but it's not that trivial to make, I think.John 
Bercovitz 



---https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
  
  

  ---https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
  
  

  No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free 
  Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.4/299 - Release Date: 
  31.03.2006
---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: sundial poetry

[Helmut Sonderegger]

L. Rigozzi wrote a poem for the most northern 
sundial in Longyearbyen. (She sponsored it and Tony Moss made 
it.) 
 
     Come, watch the tone of 
changing light
 From starlit days to 
sunfilled nights.
 Refreshed from Polar 
Night's calm sleep,
 With gentle sunrays, time 
I keep!
 
I found the poem in the RUNDSCHREIBEN 
(Jun 2005) of our Austrian Sundial Society GSA
 
Helmut Sonderegger

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Willy Leenders 
  To: Willy Leenders ; sundiallist 
  
  Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 11:51 
  AM
  Subject: Re: sundial poetry
  In the Bulletin of the Dutch Sundial Society (2004.05) I found 
  this poem:
  
  
  De Zonnewijzer
  Traag kruipt een fijne schaduw
  over verweerde steen
  en verlaat de XII,
  bobbelt over een kever heen.
  Waar is hij een uur later?
  Nergens - het regent,
  de tijd is weer eindloos geworden.
  
  Leo Theunissen ©
  
  
  The Sundial
  
  Slowly a faint shadow is crawling
  across the weather-beaten stone,
  it leaves the XII,
  and slightly bumps over a beetle.
  Where will it be after an hour?
  Nowhere - it's raining,
  and time has regained endlessness.
  
  Leo Theunissen ©
  Translation: Maya Theunissen 
  
  
  Willy LEENDERS
  Hasselt, Flanders (Belgium)
  
  On 6-apr-06, at 13:13 Willy Leenders wrote:
  



Has any one other examples of poems connected with sundials?




  
  

  ---https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
  
  

  No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free 
  Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.4/299 - Release Date: 
  31.03.2006
---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Austrian sundial catalogue

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Karl Schwarzinger's 'Catalogue of Stationary 
Sundials in Austria' has been out of print for many years. Now the Austrian 
'Arbeitsgruppe Sonnenuhren' (GSA) will print the 3rd revised and uptdated 
edition. 
 
You can find subscription information in English 
and German on my homepage http://web.utanet.at/sondereh or 
on Karl's homepage http://members.aon.at/sundials/index.html 
 
Arbeitsgruppe Sonnenuhren (GSA)
Helmut Sonderegger
 
mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: McDonald's billboard (A sundial?)

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Hi all,

I think these two sundials (Harlem and McDonald) are funny and interesting.
I would like to have these fotos in better resoultion. Is there anybody who
can help?

Helmut Sonderegger


- Original Message -
From: "Frank King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Roger Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "LISTA INGLESE" 
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: McDonald's billboard (A sundial?)


> Good thinking Roger...
>
> > Of course it is a sundial, a very clever one.  It does not
> > show regular hours but the original "stomach time".  The
> > design is similar to Mass dials...
>
> It does indeed share many of the properties of Mass dials
> but it is a good deal more colourful!  The implicit
> hyperbola is upside down for the summer months but let's
> overlook that detail!  For example, at 6a.m. the shadow of
> the nodus would be on the road a couple of blocks away!
>
> This nodus is the major novelty and I invite an enterprising
> diallist to exploit it.  The double-arch M offers all kinds
> of possibilities...
>
> With a little mathematics and careful design one can arrange
> that the outer limbs of the M serve as error bars.
>
> The central limb indicates a specific time and the outer limbs
> bracket a range of times.   I would fix it that there was a
> 68% chance of the local mean time falling within the indicated
> range.  This corresponds to a well-known property of the
> normal distribution that there is a 68% chance of being within
> one standard deviation of the mean.
>
> It would be better to have the nodus parallel to the plane of
> the dial (rather than horizontal) to keep the shape of the shadow
> (almost) constant.
>
> We should be grateful to the McDonald's Ad Agency for pointing
> the way to some potentially useful theory!  The only snag is that
> anyone who exploits this idea may fall foul of some U.S. patenting
> law!
>
> Frank King
> Cambridge, U.K.
>
> ---
> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
>
>

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

new version 5.0 of freeware SONNE

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Dear all,
Now the new version 5.0  of SONNE is for download on my website 
www.helson.at


My free software SONNE constructs more than 20 diffeent sundials and 
calculates tabels of EoT, Sun declination, ... Graphs of Sun positions 
during the year, horizon profiles,...
New: Version 5.0 calculates exact farmers's rings for low latitudes and 
(nearly all) tropics.


The unpacked software has about 9 MB only and you can use it as a free 
portable software too.


Hints on bugs and proposals about improvements are appreciated very much.

Have fun
Helmut

--
Helmut Sonderegger
www.helson.at

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

New version of my software SONNE

[Helmut Sonderegger]

The new version 5.5 of my sundial software SONNE (freeware) is for
download on my homepage www.helson.at.

It contains a new sundial type which was presented by Fred Sawyer at the
2017 NASS conference. Fred called it a 'Solar Decliner' but, I think we
should name it a 'Sawyer Decliner' because of Fred's fascinating new
idea to construct a portable sundial for mean time.

If you unzip the downloaded version 5.5, please  have a look at the
README file.

Have fun
Helmut

--
Helmut Sonderegger
www.helson.at

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

New version 5.6 of Freeware SONNE

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Dear friends

the new version 5.6 of my software SONNE is for Download on www.helson.at.
It contains improvents of help files, of the transition to the Gregorian
Calendar and  better input for two sundial types.

Have fun
Helmut

--
Helmut Sonderegger
www.helson.at

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

new version of my sundial software SONNE

[Helmut Sonderegger]

I put the new version SONNE 5.9  for download on my homepage www.helson.at

This version contains two new vertical portable sundial types by Fred
Sawyer. Considering how to use these dials I'd like to name them
'Sawyer-Decliners' for local mean time.

Information about bugs or suggestions to improve this software are
highly estimated.

Have fun
Helmut Sonderegger

--
Helmut Sonderegger
www.helson.at

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Karl Schwarzinger died

[Helmut Sonderegger]

Dear Sundial friends,

The Austrian Sundial Society (GSA) is sad to report the death Karl 
Schwarzinger. He died at the age of 92. Karl Schwarzinger initiated our GSA in 
1990 and was chairman of GSA from 1990 to 2000. He initiated the publication of 
the first Austrian Sundial Catalog and our circular letter 'Rundschreiben' (now 
SONNE+ZEIT). Additionally, he started our annual meetings and had face-to-face 
contacts to many sundial friends in different  countries.

On behalf of our chairman Peter Husty I wish to inform the members of our 
sundial-list, as many of you might have known Karl Schwarzinger.

Helmut Sonderegger


--
Helmut Sonderegger
www.helson.at

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

buying a Universal Ringdial

[Dr. Helmut Sonderegger]

Can anybody of you help me?
On webpage  <http://www.saundersandcooke.com>  I found an offer of an
Universal Ringdial. I tried to mail and order at the address there
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. The email came back. 

Thanks
Helmut Sonderegger

New version of sofware SONNE

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Dear sundial friends,

The new version 3.1 of my software SONNE is for download on
http://web.utanet.at/sondereh .
New features:
1. Photo gallery of sundials which can be calculated by Sonne
2. Additional sundial types on cylinder surfaces
3. Change of help files to chm-format, which is compatible with Vista and
Windows 7.

The software runs on all Windows systems up from Windows 98, on 64-bit
systems too.

Hints on bugs and suggestions would be appreciated!
Helmut

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: Fwd: how italian hours

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Hello,

to add an additional feature. I calculated with my software
Italian/Babylonian hours in shepherds' dials: Babylonian hours from 0 to
7:30 and - which is in this dial the same - Italian from 16:30 to 24, green
color shows noon.

We could try to sell that to retired people, who can see how much time they
have vasted already in the morning when they get up later (;-)

Helmut Sonderegger

- Original Message -
From: "Mac Oglesby" 
To: "Sundial Mailing List" 
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: how italian hours


>
> Hello Friends,
>
> Warren's message jogged my memory to recall an article which he, Fer
> de Vries, Bill Maddux and I published in the September 1998
> Compendium about "A Card Dial With Italian Hours."
>
> Following that article I continued to play with H2SS designs and
> produced a pocket size H2SS card dial with a folding cover. Please
> refer to the attached photo. In use, you stood with your back to the
> Sun and set the string's sliding marker to the current date. Then,
> with the card vertical and the string plumb line hanging free, you
> carefully tilted the card in the vertical plane so that a sunbeam
> through the front aperture was centered on the rear target. You
> pinched the string against the card and read the hours until sunset,
> using the dashed lines for morning and beaded lines for the afternoon.
>
> My foolish thought was that every golfer and hiker and outdoors
> person would want this information. Can you guess how many of these
> sundials were made?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Mac Oglesby
>
>
>
>
> >All,
> >
> >I have enjoyed the discussion about Italian hours.  My first dial was an
> >hours to sunset dial on my garage door done in the 1970s.  Mac Oglesby's
> >models and dials are inspiring to me.  I had a globe parallel to the
earth
> >in the 1980s that I liked to view on a sunny day.  I could observe where
> >on earth the sun was overhead and where the sun was setting at that very
> >moment.  About six years ago I worked on a design that would cast a
shadow
> >  from a nodus onto a map that would show where on earth the sun was
> >directly overhead.  It was an ugly confusing map.  My question is:
> >
> >Hour and prayer lines are fine.  Is there other information, that uses
> >Italian hour calculations (or solar declinations) , that would be of
> >interest to a broad audience?  Fred Sawyer created a universal dial of
> >modern hours based on a world map.  Is it possible to create a "map" dial
> >that would show where the sun is setting at that moment?  What could it
> >look like?  Would it require a line shadow casting instead of a point?
> >Any thoughts?
> >
> >Thank you -- Warren Thom
> >






> ---
> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
>
>


BabItal.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: How to calculate a perforated ring dial's diagram?

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Marcelo,

you can download my free software SONNE from my homepage www.helson.at or 
http://web.utanet.at/sondereh . This software SONNE also includes calculation 
and construction of Ring Dials.

Good success
Helmut Sonderegger
  - Original Message - 
  From: Marcelo 
  To: sundial@uni-koeln.de 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:51 PM
  Subject: How to calculate a perforated ring dial's diagram?


  I learned from a book (in teory) how to make an altitude ring sundial. 'Tis 
different from the equatorial ring, as it is devised specially for one certain 
latitude. My problem is that I can't manually lay out the hour/declination 
lines (to be transfered to the inner face of the ring) with the precision I 
want, my protractor has only 1 degree divisions, furthermore it is too much 
laborious to find the lines with pencil, eraser, protractor and compass. That's 
why I love equations and softwares, but it is very hard to find them for the 
altitude ring.  


  Methinks it is somewhat like the shepherd's dial, except for 'tis an 
horizontal cylinder rather than a vertical one. Can I use the diagram of the 
shepherd's dial? But then, what would be the "length of gnomon"?



  How can I calculate the diagram? I mean, it seems for me that the diagram is 
essentially the same despite the latitude, that its dimensions depend only from 
the ring's radius and width, and that the specification of the latitude is 
determined by the orifice in the ring in relation to the diagram and the point 
of suspension.

  Here's a picture of a ring nearly identical to that I wanna make (mine hasn't 
a movable circle with the hole, it's constituted of but one ring):
  http://tiny.cc/h9tty 


  Here is a link to a sketch I made that I hope will make clear my problem:
  tiny.cc/9dtgi



  Please be indulgent with my poor English.


  Thanks for your time!


  Marcelo Manilio


--


  ---
  https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: re altitude dial

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Frank,

I made a horizontal altitude dial  for the inside of a box. The date lines 
are parallel to 2 edges, one of the other 2 edges is the shadow casting 
object. The box has to be rotated to the sun so that the vertical edges 
parallel to the date lines point to the direction of sun (cast no shadow 
transversal to their direction)


I calculated that with my software SONNE.EXE.

I hope the attache image is not blocked. Otherwise send me a mail.
Helmut Sonderegger
www.helson.at

- Original Message - 
From: "Frank Evans" 

To: "Sundial" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:12 PM
Subject: re altitude dial



Greetings, fellow dialists,
Thanks, all, for the communications. I think I did not make it clear that 
I was thinking of a horizontal altitude dial, not a vertical one. It would 
look a bit like an analemmatic dial laid out on the ground. I understand 
how a shepherd's dial works and also how a vertical altitude dial with 
(say) six curves works. I have a nice picture of the altitude (and 
azimuth) dial once to be seen on a wall in the Royal Observatory at 
Greenwich. It has now, alas, been lost, together with the other five dials 
(planetary hours, equal hours, zodialcal signs, equation of time, hours 
from sunrise and sunset) made by a Polish dialist whose name I have sadly 
forgotten.


The vertical altitude dial at Greenwich was very plain and simply had a 
fixed horizontal sun-hole gnomon with altitude curves (and vertical 
azimuth lines) beneath it. I envisage a horizontal dial with a single 
altitude curve and the vertical gnomon moving north -south to compensate 
for seasonal change. Is such a dial possible?

Frank 55N 1W

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial


<>---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: longitude correction

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Hi to all,

In the attached gif-file one can see the hour lines (apparent time): 
red lines: hour lines without longitude correction 
   gray lines: hour lines with longitude correction for 5 degrees (= 20 minutes 
of time)
North is vertical up (= 12 local apparent time ... green).

One cannot say that all hour lines are rotated by equal angles of 5 degrees.

Helmut Sonderegger


- Original Message - 
  From: Tony Moss 
  To: sundial@uni-koeln.de 
  Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:35 AM
  Subject: Re: longitude correction


  On 09/02/2011 21:49, Donald Christensen wrote: 
How do I design a longitude correction in my sundial? 

Correct me if I'm wrong 

My horizontal dial is for Brisbane. The longitude is 153 deg and the 
standard meridian is 150. This is a 3 deg difference. 

I'll then rotate the hour lines by 3 deg to compensate 



-- 
Cheers
Donald
0423 102 090


This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended 
recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. Un-authorized use of 
this email is subject to penalty of law.
So there!


---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Hi Donald,
  With any horizontal dial, if you are a whole number of 
degrees to the East or West of your reference meridian, the gnomon remains 
pointing true north and the hour/minute line divisions are unchanged: you 
simply move the *numerals* around by the amount of the longitudinal correction 
and choose the corresponding divisions to be your hours, halves and quarters.

  Myself I prefer the symmetry of an uncorrected layout with the longitudinal 
correction incorporated in the Equation of Time table or graph.  In the latter 
case you simply move the graph plot up or down from the zero line by the amount 
of the LC.  This is also easier when the LC isn't a whole number of degrees.

  I'll leave you to work it out which way you have to move the numerals in this 
case.

  Hope this simplifies it.

  Tony Moss



--


  ---
  https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

<>---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: perforated ring dial

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Donald,

I don't know if a perforated ring dial is the same as a farmers' ring. If so 
then goto www.helson.at and download software SONNE. This software calculates 
(beside many other sundial types) farmers' rings of different types.

Helmut
  - Original Message - 
  From: Donald Christensen 
  To: sundial@uni-koeln.de 
  Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 2:04 AM
  Subject: perforated ring dial


  Does anyone know where I can get software for a perforated ring dial.

  -- 
  Cheers
  Donald
  0423 102 090


  This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended 
recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. Un-authorized use of 
this email is subject to penalty of law.
  So there!


--


  ---
  https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: Passion

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Sorry  Brent,

for me your mail is not of good taste nor does it seem funny to me:
1. It contains no dialling problem
2. For me it looks, as if you would like to make fools of some of this 
list (I do not want to use a more rude word)


I think this list  was created for dialling problems and activities and 
in some questions of your mail I cannot see any dialling problem. But I 
think this would be fine for facebook.


Helmut  Sonderegger

Am 30.07.2011 06:42, schrieb Brent:

Hello again;

I have noticed some of you are very passionate about sundials.

I’m curious how far that passion goes.

Do any of you plan to have a sundial on your gravestone?

Do any of you plan to be buried with a sundial?

Do any of you have a sundial tattoo?



---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial




---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: Proceedings for Future of UTC meeting

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Dear Frank,

in my humble opinion, you hit the nail on the head.

Merry Christmas to all (or shouldn't I write that any longer?)
Helmut Sonderegger

Am 24.12.2011 10:40, schrieb Frank King:

Dear Mac,

You say:


May I ask a stupid question?

They are often the best.  Remember the recent
thread started by someone who thought it wrong
to imagine that the sun moved across the sky?

[I didn't respond to that one, but insisting
that the sun stays in the same place would
mean you couldn't say "Oh, what a beautiful
sunset."  You would have to say "Oh, look at
that beautiful horizon-rise" instead!]


What was wrong with AD and BC?

There are strange people who seem to suffer
an attack of the vapours when they come across
anything hinting at religion.

This pretty much rules out studying a good
many subjects.  You can't study architecture,
astronomy and certainly sundials for very
long without coming across Egyptian gods,
Greek gods, Roman gods, Christian practices,
Muslim practices and all the rest.

In the case of AD there is the additional
problem that it stands for two Latin words
and other strange people think that using
a dead language isn't user-friendly.

They won't get far studying the history of
science either!

Happily, Latin isn't quite dead.  I am one
of 40 or so people in my neck of the woods
who is actually paid to declaim Latin in
public (loudly and with enthusiasm!).

Enjoy your 2011 Christmas.

Now just what was it that was going on
2011 years ago?

Frank King
Cambridge, U.K.

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial




---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: 2 questions: declination & animation

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Hi Darek.

a longer time ago, I also wrote such a software for reverse engineering. 
You can download this freeware from my homepage www.helson.at. There 
select "Download software STUNDLIN"


Good success
Helmut

Am 11.01.2012 08:31, schrieb Shadows Pro:

Hi Darek and all

There is a feature in my program Shadows Pro to reverse engineer a vertical
sundial from its picture. It does not correct aberrations due to the camera
objective but if the picture is taken exactly in front, it works pretty
well.

You can see a screen copy on this page: www.shadowspro.com/en/gallery12.html


Regards
François
www.shadowspro.com


-Message d'origine-
De : sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] De
la part de Darek Oczki
Envoyé : mercredi 11 janvier 2012 00:32
À : sundial@uni-koeln.de
Objet : 2 questions: declination&  animation

Dear Diallists

I've got two practical questions:

1. Let's say I have a photograph of a sundial. I do not know where it was
originally located. Is there a way to discover the values of the declination
and latitude it was designed for? There are clear hour and declination lines
on the dial.

2. A friend of mine is helping a student in an attampt to reconstruct an old
missing dial. They need a software which allows to make an animation of a
shadow's path over the dial. Is there anything that would help them?

I would be most grateful for any suggestions.


---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: Analemmatic

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Alex,

you can download my free software ALEMMA from my homepage 
http://www.helson.at  This calculates different types of analemmatic 
sundials with ouput of tables and with output of  constructions in 
dxf--format


Best wishes
Helmut



Am 10.04.2012 06:16, schrieb Perit Alexei Pace:

Good morning,
I have designed an analemmatic sundial and would like someone to 'peer 
review' it and re-calculate my design.
Is anyone willing to do this please? I can supply the file in DWG or 
DXF formats.

Best regards,
Alex


---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: analemmatic sundial on a slope

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Hello Donald,

At my fist look, your method is correct. Anselmo Perez Serrada made a 
spreadsheet to calculate inclining and deviating analemmatic sundials. 
There you could control your results. I do not know his web site but I 
have this spreadsheet. Maybe somebody of this list knows Serrada's 
website to download the newest version.


On my website there is only software "Alemma", which calculates 
different horizontal and inclining analemmatic sundials but not deviating


Regards
Helmut Sonderegger
www.helson.at


Am 08.09.2012 04:12, schrieb Donald Christensen:


Will an analemmatic sundial work on a slope?


I've designed a sundial on a slope but I'm not sure if it will work.


http://content.screencast.com/users/dchristensen777/folders/Default/media/0a769c4b-d61c-4f5d-b187-5b74dbc56e07/1.jpg


This is a pic of an equatorial dial. I have projected the lines down 
to draw an analemmatic sundial for a horizontal surface. The sunlight 
strikes the blue gnomen on the equatorial dial. Where it hits the 
gnomen, I project it down (red) to draw the month line. The shadow 
then strikes the 1pm and I project that down as well.



http://content.screencast.com/users/dchristensen777/folders/Default/media/6abf010e-8416-41a3-ba75-f69f63d0109f/2.JPG


This is an analemmatic sundial designed on a horizontal surface. I 
have projected all hour and month points down to where they intersect 
on the gray slope.




http://content.screencast.com/users/dchristensen777/folders/Default/media/5354cc54-f058-4854-bb3a-844a9b8fa89f/3.JPG


This is the analemmatic sundial designed for a slope.


I'm unsure this will work. I'm confident that I projected the lines 
correctly. A person that stands on the month line will be standing 
upright. They won't be perpendicular to the ground. Of course a gnomen 
that is perpendicular to the slope won't work. However I'm wondering 
if a vertical gnomen will work


Cheers
Donald
0423 102 090


This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the 
intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. 
Un-authorized use of this email is subject to penalty of law.

So there!


---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial



---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: Works of Tadeusz Przypkowski wanted

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Hi Darek,

A Historian just told me that the article of  Tadeusz Przypkowski is in 
French and two details should be corrected:.


The gnomonics of Nicolas Copernicus and of G J Rheticus, Actes du*VIII-e*  
Congrès International d'Histoire des Sciences,
Pages 400-409. Florence*1958
*
But, he hasn't the article either.
If anybody could help to get it, I'd be happy too.
Helmut Sonderegger

Am 18.03.2013 22:30, schrieb Darek Oczki:

Dear Friends

I am looking for two articles by Tadeusz Przypkowski:

1. The gnomonics of Nicolas Copernicus and of G J Rheticus, Actes du VI-e 
Congrès International d'Histoire des Sciences, Pages 400-409. Florence 1956.
2. Gnomonics of John Hevelius, Actes de Xe Congres International d’Histoire des 
Sciences, II, pp 695-697, Ithaca, 1962.

Does anyone have them? This Polish gnomonist Tadeusz Przypkowski wrote the 
articles in English or French (I am not sure) but ironicly not in Polish so 
they are not available in my country. Well, to some high level scientist they 
may but not to ordinary people like myself. These articles are quoted 
everywhere but nobody can read them.

Please help me reach them - all I want is to translate Przypkowski's warks into 
Polish and pass the knowledge to the other sundial enthusiasts.



---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: Works of Tadeusz Przypkowski wanted

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Hi all

now I got  the full title for this article (in French ! ). I hope this 
is correct now.


Tadeusz Przypkowsk: *La gnomonique de Nicolas Copernic et de Georges 
Joachim Rheticus*, Actes du *VIII-e* Congrès International d'Histoire 
des Sciences, Pages 400-409. Florence *1958*


The print dates from 1958 but the meeting was in 1956. I hope this is 
correct


Best
Helmut

Am 20.03.2013 10:45, schrieb Patrick Powers:

Hi Darek,
A search of the British and Bodleian Libraries does not show any of 
these so I suspect that because they were presentations at an 
International Conferences, the individual contributions might not have 
been regarded as true 'publications' recorded under the names of the 
various presenters.  This was and still is, quite a common practice at 
Scientific Meetings.
A list of many of the "PUBLICATIONS - Académie Internationale 
d'Histoire des Sciences" can be found as a PDF at:

http://www.aihs-iahs.org/en/system/files/2011-10-publications-iahs-en.pdf
I am unsure if the entries quite match your references though.  The 
document mentions (See Entry 6.) the VI-e Congres as being in 
Amsterdam in 1950 (Not Florence in 1956, as your reference suggests). 
However entry 15. does seem to confirm that the X-e Congres was held 
at Ithaca (USA) in 1962.
A little further down it suggests that copies may be available from 
the publishers and gives several names for these.  I hope you might be 
able to take things a little further with this information.

Regards
Patrick
*From:* Darek Oczki 
*Sent:* Monday, March 18, 2013 9:30 PM
*To:* sundial@uni-koeln.de 
*Subject:* Works of Tadeusz Przypkowski wanted
Dear Friends

I am looking for two articles by Tadeusz Przypkowski:

1. The gnomonics of Nicolas Copernicus and of G J Rheticus, Actes du 
VI-e Congrès International d'Histoire des Sciences, Pages 400-409. 
Florence 1956.
2. Gnomonics of John Hevelius, Actes de Xe Congres International 
d'Histoire des Sciences, II, pp 695-697, Ithaca, 1962.


Does anyone have them? This Polish gnomonist Tadeusz Przypkowski wrote 
the articles in English or French (I am not sure) but ironicly not in 
Polish so they are not available in my country. Well, to some high 
level scientist they may but not to ordinary people like myself. These 
articles are quoted everywhere but nobody can read them.


Please help me reach them - all I want is to translate Przypkowski's 
warks into Polish and pass the knowledge to the other sundial enthusiasts.


--
Best regards
Darek Oczki
52N 21E
Warsaw, Poland

GNOMONIKA.pl
Sundials in Poland
http://gnomonika.pl
---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial



---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial



---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: globe on the dome of the Gustaviaum

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Hello Roger and Frank,

and additonally, shouldn't the plane through the points of the hour 
scale be identic with the equatorial plane of the local sky. (I hope my 
English formulation is understandable.)


Very best wishes
Helmut

Am 04.05.2013 19:09, schrieb Roger Bailey:

Hello Frank,

Yes, this concept is thought provoking. Here are a couple of other 
thoughts on the topic.


1. Orientation of the globe may not be important but the orientation 
of the hour scale is.  12 must be on the east and west edge. If the 
scale is in the equatorial plane the hours are uniform, 15° each. If 
the scale is horizontal, the hours are defined by the azimuth.  Any 
orientation of the hour scale is possible, defined by the specific 
geometry.


2. The projection of the half degree penumbra increases going from 
directly facing the sun on to the edge, 90° around. For a flat 
surface, this is defined by the cosine.  For the curved surface, 
calculus of differential cosines would define the spreading of the 
penumbra on the sphere. This is why the terminator line is less 
distinct than a shadow.


There are math challenges with both these points, starting with good 
sketches.


Regards, Roger Bailey



--
From: "Frank King" 
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 1:42 AM
To: "Roger Bailey" 
Cc: "Willy Leenders" ; "Sundial 
sundiallist" ; 

Subject: Re: globe on the dome of the Gustaviaum


Dear Roger,

I do enjoy your thought-provoking messages!

I have been thinking over your comments on
the globe dial:

 I call sundials like this "Terminator"
 sundials as they tell time by the
 terminator line between the sunny
 and dark sides.

So far, so good.  An eloquent description
of how these dials work.  You continue:

It is not a sharp line like a shadow

This is what set me thinking...

In general, a shadow is not any sort of
line, sharp or otherwise.  On a plane
surface shadows are two dimensional.

Maybe you meant:

It is not a sharp line like the edge
of a shadow

This can't be right either because the
edge of a shadow, the penumbra, is
precisely the part which prevents it
from being sharp!

The terminator is just a posh word for
the penumbral region at the margin of
the shadow on the globe.

You can ponder whether the penumbral
region of this shadow is more or less
sharp than the shadow of, say, a
vertical stick.  The truth is that
it is both more sharp and less sharp!

Here's why...

The penumbral region of the shadow of
a vertical stick increases linearly as
you get further from the base of the
stick.

The penumbral region of the shadow of
on a globe has uniform width all the
way round.

Imagine a bug crawling over the surface
of the globe and crossing the terminator
at right-angles...

The bug goes from full shadow to full
illumination by the sun by crawling
an angular distance of about half a
degree  On a 10 foot diameter globe
this is about half an inch.

The penumbra of the shadow of a
vertical stick increases from zero
width indefinitely.  It will be
half an inch across at about 5 feet
from the base if the sun is low.

If the Earth didn't have an atmosphere,
its own terminator would again be about
half a degree across.

In the Tropics, when the sun sets
normal to the horizon, it would take
about two minutes to go from being
just wholly visible to being just
fully below the horizon.

The atmosphere stretches this a bit
because refraction increases rapidly
as solar altitude heads towards zero.

The atmosphere has a small effect on
the terminator on a globe but it also
has a small effect on the shadow of a
stick.  You can ignore this effect.

You continue...

 Orientation is important.

Not on a globe it isn't.  Globes tend
to look the same whichever way you
orientate them :-)

Very best wishes

Frank




-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3272 / Virus Database: 3162/6295 - Release Date: 
05/03/13





-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3272 / Virus Database: 3162/6297 - Release Date: 05/04/13

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial





---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: globe on the dome of the Gustaviaum

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Hello Roger,

sorry Roger, you are right, the orientation of the plane of the hour 
scale can be different from the equatorial plane if the points are - as 
you wrote - positioned by the specific geometry!


Very best wilshes
Helmut

Am 04.05.2013 19:09, schrieb Roger Bailey:

Hello Frank,

Yes, this concept is thought provoking. Here are a couple of other 
thoughts on the topic.


1. Orientation of the globe may not be important but the orientation 
of the hour scale is.  12 must be on the east and west edge. If the 
scale is in the equatorial plane the hours are uniform, 15° each. If 
the scale is horizontal, the hours are defined by the azimuth.  Any 
orientation of the hour scale is possible, defined by the specific 
geometry.


2. The projection of the half degree penumbra increases going from 
directly facing the sun on to the edge, 90° around. For a flat 
surface, this is defined by the cosine.  For the curved surface, 
calculus of differential cosines would define the spreading of the 
penumbra on the sphere. This is why the terminator line is less 
distinct than a shadow.


There are math challenges with both these points, starting with good 
sketches.


Regards, Roger Bailey



--
From: "Frank King" 
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 1:42 AM
To: "Roger Bailey" 
Cc: "Willy Leenders" ; "Sundial 
sundiallist" ; 

Subject: Re: globe on the dome of the Gustaviaum


Dear Roger,

I do enjoy your thought-provoking messages!

I have been thinking over your comments on
the globe dial:

 I call sundials like this "Terminator"
 sundials as they tell time by the
 terminator line between the sunny
 and dark sides.

So far, so good.  An eloquent description
of how these dials work.  You continue:

It is not a sharp line like a shadow

This is what set me thinking...

In general, a shadow is not any sort of
line, sharp or otherwise.  On a plane
surface shadows are two dimensional.

Maybe you meant:

It is not a sharp line like the edge
of a shadow

This can't be right either because the
edge of a shadow, the penumbra, is
precisely the part which prevents it
from being sharp!

The terminator is just a posh word for
the penumbral region at the margin of
the shadow on the globe.

You can ponder whether the penumbral
region of this shadow is more or less
sharp than the shadow of, say, a
vertical stick.  The truth is that
it is both more sharp and less sharp!

Here's why...

The penumbral region of the shadow of
a vertical stick increases linearly as
you get further from the base of the
stick.

The penumbral region of the shadow of
on a globe has uniform width all the
way round.

Imagine a bug crawling over the surface
of the globe and crossing the terminator
at right-angles...

The bug goes from full shadow to full
illumination by the sun by crawling
an angular distance of about half a
degree  On a 10 foot diameter globe
this is about half an inch.

The penumbra of the shadow of a
vertical stick increases from zero
width indefinitely.  It will be
half an inch across at about 5 feet
from the base if the sun is low.

If the Earth didn't have an atmosphere,
its own terminator would again be about
half a degree across.

In the Tropics, when the sun sets
normal to the horizon, it would take
about two minutes to go from being
just wholly visible to being just
fully below the horizon.

The atmosphere stretches this a bit
because refraction increases rapidly
as solar altitude heads towards zero.

The atmosphere has a small effect on
the terminator on a globe but it also
has a small effect on the shadow of a
stick.  You can ignore this effect.

You continue...

 Orientation is important.

Not on a globe it isn't.  Globes tend
to look the same whichever way you
orientate them :-)

Very best wishes

Frank




-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3272 / Virus Database: 3162/6295 - Release Date: 
05/03/13





-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3272 / Virus Database: 3162/6297 - Release Date: 05/04/13

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial





---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: Astronomical monuments?

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Willy,

there ia also a free pdf-download of this book from 
http://openarchive.icomos.org/267/


Helmut Sonderegger

Am 03.07.2013 14:25, schrieb Willy Leenders:
Read the e-book (free) at 
http://issuu.com/starlightinitiative/docs/astronomy-and-world-heritage_thematic-study 



Willy Leenders
Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium)

Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg 
(Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in 
Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be








Op 1-jul-2013, om 07:10 heeft Rob Seaman het volgende geschreven:

Readers of the Sundial mailing list may be interested in the several 
excellent slide presentations from last month's meeting in 
Charlottesville, Virginia, "Requirements for UTC and Civil 
Timekeeping on Earth":


http://futureofutc.org/program/

Preprints for the proceedings will appear in a few weeks.  I am 
currently working on my own contribution, "The Meaning of a Day":


http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/futureofutc/program/presentations/AAS_13_515.pdf

And have grown interested in issues of monuments and other 
commemorative installations relying on astronomical depictions to 
convey dates and times.  This could be considered a broader category 
containing sundials and inscriptions on sundials as well as ancient 
monuments such as Stonehenge and perhaps modern public art pieces.


For instance, Hoover Dam commemorates its dedication not only with 
monumental sculptures, but also with a detailed celestial map 
conveying the precession of the equinoxes and the apparition of the 
sky and planets on the date in question:


https://archive.org/details/HooverDamMonumentPlazaSculpturesCompleteBooklet
http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-march-equinox/

I would welcome any pointers to similar monuments, whether large or 
small, especially those with a long term vision such as the 26,000 
precessional cycle.


Thanks!

Rob Seaman
National Optical Astronomy Observatory
Tucson, AZ

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial





---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial



---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: a unique sundial on a cylindrical column of opal glass

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Dear Frans,

I only agree with parts of your opinion. Well, the in formulation "very 
similar" I should have omitted the "very".


and for me more importat: Sullivan's sundial is not a shepherd dial !
In the shepherd dial the gnomon of the dial has to be rotated around the 
central axis to the actual date. Then the shadow shows (using the date 
and the suns altitude) the time. The Sun's azimuth is not displayed. One 
could construct azimuth lines too but, I never saw such a shepherd dial


Woodys sundial is fully different from the shepherd dial. For me it is 
similar to the idea of Willy Lenders. Woodys dial is fixed to the ground 
and oriented  so that 12  (local noon) faces exactly South. The gnomon 
is rotated until its shadow is vertical. Then the gnomon points in 
drection to the sun's azimuth. Now time is read by the suns altitude and 
azimuth - and date can be read too.  I would call this an azimuthal 
altitude sundial. Measured altitude and azimuth of sun lead to display 
of time and date.


In chalice dials I know 2 different types (in Higton Hesters book): one 
has a fixed cetral gnomon and is actually the same as the shepherd dial. 
The ohther one seems to have a moveable gnomon. The visible date lines 
looks as if the chalice must be oriented to N-S-direction. Its type 
seems the same as Woody and Willys dial. But on the image it is not 
clear enaugh (for me).


Best wishes
Helmut
www.helson.at

PS: The construction in my software is for the outer side of a cylinder 
with fixed orientation and a moveable gnomon. It is correct in the inner 
side only if the gnomon is in the central axis.



Am 14.10.2013 16:10, schrieb Frans W. Maes:

Dear Helmut & all,

I don't think Woody Sullivan's sundial is "very similar" to Willy 
Leenders' impressive sundial. From a typological point of view, 
Sullivan's sundial is a shepherd dial. It uses the altitude of the sun 
to show the time. Willy Leenders' dial is a nodal dial, similar to a 
scaphe dial or a chalice dial. It derives the time from the sun's hour 
angle.


Best regards,
Frans Maes

On 14-10-2013 15:17, Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2) wrote:

Hi Roderick,

I like Willys new sundial too.  It looks beautifully.

I included this sundial construction a longer time ago in my software
SONNE and discussed different cylinder sundials in Compendium vol 16 nr.
4 (Dec 2009). In my freeware Sonne.exe you can construct the sundial for
the outside of a cylinder with fixed orientation and moveable horizontal
gnomon (see image below). Now Willy has positioned the Gnomon in the
central axis of the cylinder and so the gnomon length is equal the
radius and nee not be turned around. The construction stays the same but
the scale is positioned on the Northern part of the vertical cylinder
instead of South.

By the way: Woody Sulllivan made a very similar construction on the
outer side of a cone (
http://sundials.org/index.php/component/sundials/onedial/746 )

Helmut Sonderegger
www.helson.at


---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial





---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: Vertical declining sundial help

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

I think Gian is right: as the author of "SONNE" I agree with Gian that all
feedback about the programs offered is very helpful. Also different opinions
are helpful for the programmer.

For me consensus in the dialist's nomenclauture seems impossible. We use
many definitions which are  common not only in dialling but also in
astronomy. We cannot change that. Therefore many of us use that version
which is common in the own country or continent. So help files and/or an
improved way of data input seems to be the best.

Greetings
Helmut
http://web.utanet.at/sondereh


- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "jlcarmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Sundial list Sundial list" 
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:43 AM
Subject: RE: Vertical declining sundial help


Well, maybe it would not be enough, but some agreement in the sundial
community (between both software makers and dialists) on nomenclatures etc.
could help in creating a "de facto" standard.

I agree with John, we absolutely don't need a war between programmers,
however I think that some more feedback on what a program does would be
useful, I'm sure that there are several aspects that could be enhanced and
that the programmer cannot see because he is the author.
It's not a question of criticizing any programs, just a way to improve them.

Greetings.

Gian

-- Initial Header ---

>From  : "John Carmichael" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To  : "Ricardo Cernic" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc  : "sun.dials" [EMAIL PROTECTED],"yan" [EMAIL PROTECTED],"sundial"
sundial@uni-koeln.de
Date  : Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:03:09 -0700
Subject : RE: Vertical declining sundial help

> I agree with you Ricardo that a consensus among programmers would be nice.
> But it's just not the programs that are different.  In sundial literature
> you see different nomenclatures as well.  Models are fine if you are
> designing a dial for your local location where you can test it.  But if
you
> are designing a dial that's for somewhere else, then a model isn't very
> helpful, unless you ship the model to where it's going and test it there.
> That's another reason why I like to use two or more sundial programs to
> double check the drawings against each other, especially if actual testing
> is not possible.
>
> But I don't want to criticize any particular program, because I love them
> all for different reasons, and we are all deeply indebted to their makers
> for sharing them with us.  Besides, we don't want to start a war between
the
> programmers!  But it's something to think about, for sure.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ricardo Cernic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 1:39 PM
> To: jlcarmichael
> Cc: sun.dials; yan; sundial
> Subject: RE: Vertical declining sundial help
>
> Yan,
>
> John raised a very good point. I've tested most of the programs mentioned
> (btw, all of them are very good) and you must be very careful about the
> tricks behind the nomenclatures. What I usually do is to build a small
scale
> sundial using cardboard and test it to make sure I've input the parameters
> correctly according to the definitions used by a certain program. This
> approach save a lot off time, money and avoid frustrations.
>
> John,
>
> If I'm not wrong most of the authors of the programs mentioned are members
> of this list and/or some one in the list know them. So, extending your
> point: why this community does not discuss the best nomenclature to be
used?
> After a consensus is reached the authors could decide to change or not
their
> programs. Also,wWhy not to use a kind of certification like NASS/BSS/etc
> nomenclature compliant? In the software industry there are different kinds
> of certification (Linux, Windows Vista, Mac, etc.).
>
> BR,
> Ricardo Cernic
> São Paulo, Brazil
>
> -- Início da mensagem original ---
>
>   De: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], sundial@uni-koeln.de
>   Cc:
> Data: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:20:08 -0700
>  Assunto: RE: Vertical declining sundial help
>
> > p.s.
> >
> > A word of warning about using any of these sundial design programs-
> >
> > These sundial programs ask you to input the characteristics of the
sundial
> you want.
> >
> > But they all use different nomenclature and definitions for longitude
and
> wall declination inputs.  Some of them use negative values (-) for West
> longitudes, and other use positive values (+) for West longitudes.  So be
> careful when you enter longitude and wall declination values that you use
> the correct sign.  When I use design a sundial I always use at least two
> sundial programs so that I can catch any input errors.  I compare both
> drawings to make sure they are identical. Often I catch major errors
because
> I got confused and did not enter the correct longitude value sign or the
> wall declination value sign.
> >
> > To avoid these serious errors, read the "Help" or "Definition" tabs to
> find

Re: Bernhardt's gnomons

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

As I read, the gnomon by Berhard  ('Berhadt-Walze') is a bit more
complicated than just the half analemma rotated. This, because the sun rays
are not orthogonal to the axis of the Berhardt-Walze and therefore it needs
some higher Maths. And as I remember the calculations show that there can
exist some days where reading correct mean time is not possible. As I
remember this happens the days near winter soltice.

Helmut Sonderegger


- Original Message -
From: "Thomas Steiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sundial Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:01 PM
Subject: Bernhardt's gnomons


> Dear all,
>
> I tried to collect information on Martin Bernhardt's special Gnomons
> which takes into account the equation of time in a equatorial sundial
> on a single scale to read off time, regardless of the date (almost -
> once a year the gnomon has to be changed).
> The idea is good and simple: just rotate half of the analemma (ok, a
> projection) around an axis. The original idea came from John Ryder
> Oliver (1834-1909) and Bernhardt lived from 1919 until 2000. It's
> incredible that this was discovered that late. Do you know any sources
> or other information on it? Do you know of any ideas/inventions that
> were close? What did Oliver exactly do? ...
>
> For the German speaking among you, I wrote major parts of this smal
> wikipedia article:
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhardtsche_Walze
>
> Thanks for help on anything related to the subject...
> thomas
> ---
> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
>
>

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: Bernhardt's gnomons

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Sorry for my terrible error in writing the name. Of course the name is
Bernhardt and the object discussed is the 'Bernhardt-Walze'!

Helmut

- Original Message -----
From: "Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Thomas Steiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: Bernhardt's gnomons


> As I read, the gnomon by Berhard  ('Berhadt-Walze') is a bit more
> complicated than just the half analemma rotated. This, because the sun
rays
> are not orthogonal to the axis of the Berhardt-Walze and therefore it
needs
> some higher Maths. And as I remember the calculations show that there can
> exist some days where reading correct mean time is not possible. As I
> remember this happens the days near winter soltice.
>
> Helmut Sonderegger
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Thomas Steiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Sundial Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:01 PM
> Subject: Bernhardt's gnomons
>
>
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I tried to collect information on Martin Bernhardt's special Gnomons
> > which takes into account the equation of time in a equatorial sundial
> > on a single scale to read off time, regardless of the date (almost -
> > once a year the gnomon has to be changed).
> > The idea is good and simple: just rotate half of the analemma (ok, a
> > projection) around an axis. The original idea came from John Ryder
> > Oliver (1834-1909) and Bernhardt lived from 1919 until 2000. It's
> > incredible that this was discovered that late. Do you know any sources
> > or other information on it? Do you know of any ideas/inventions that
> > were close? What did Oliver exactly do? ...
> >
> > For the German speaking among you, I wrote major parts of this smal
> > wikipedia article:
> > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhardtsche_Walze
> >
> > Thanks for help on anything related to the subject...
> > thomas
> > ---
> > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
> >
> >
>
> ---
> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
>
>

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: Bernhardt's gnomons

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Thomas,

some years ago we had a German article by Rolf Wieland in the
"Rundschreiben" Nr. 26 and 27 of our Austrian Sundial Group. Rolf discusses
very well some problems of the Bernhardt-Walze. And this article also helps
to learn that the shape of the "analemma" of the Schmoyer sundial is a bit
different from the one of the Bernhardt-Walze.

I had this in my mind when I answered you the first time. After your answer
now I searched for Rolf's article and those interested I can send the
pdf-version of it (some over 600 kB) if you send me a mail to my private
address ([EMAIL PROTECTED]).

But you are right if the sunrays were all the year orthogonal to the earth's
axis, it  wouldn't be so complicated.

The copyright of the article belongs to Rolf Wieland and the Austrian
Sundial group.

Helmut


- Original Message -
From: "Thomas Steiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Fred Sawyer"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: Bernhardt's gnomons


> Fred and Helmut,
>
> thanks for your replies. I will look into the patent this weekend in
detail.
>
> Quick reply to Hemlut's remark: I think that sunrays will be always
> orthogonal to the axis of the gnomon (it's just parallel to the
> earth's axis), but it needs some maths (after describing the analemma
> only calculating the distance of two skewed lines - not too
> sophisticated) to describe the shape (in short I wrote "projection").
> Near to the dates when the gnomon has to be exchanged (sun at the
> upper/lower end), reading off time will be difficult as the timescale
> and the shaddow will more not orthogonal (ie intersect two almost
> parallel lines). This will happen around winter and summer solstice
> (spelling!?).
>
> Helmut, do you know any Bernhardt's sundial in Austria?
>
> Still collecting material/ideas/sources...
> thomas
>

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: Deltacad dxf?

[Helmut Sonderegger (Tele2)]

Terry,

I am not sure that this is the same problem but, I had the similar problem with 
my software SONNE and DeltaCAD until I found that text files (and dxf files are 
text files) can have ASCII or ANSI format and some software accepts only 
dxf-files in ANSI format. Now I save dxf-files in ANSI format.

So it might be helpful if you try to convert this text format to ANSI. Or may 
be, in some CAD-software you can switch from one format to the other.

Good luck!
Helmut
  - Original Message - 
  From: terence ackland 
  To: sundial@uni-koeln.de 
  Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:18 PM
  Subject: Deltacad dxf?


Hi,
I downloaded Deltacad 6 and a collection of macros from Mr. Sabanski's 
great website.
I experimented with a couple of macros and saved them as .dxf. 
I tried to open these files using both AutoCADR14 and QuickCAD and got 
an error message.
I then used Sonne218 to produce a dial and saved it as a .dxf which I 
was then able to open in both Autocad programmes as well Deltacad. 
Is there something I am doing wrong, I'm not a CAD expert?
Thanks, Terry 


--
  Get the name you've always wanted ! @ymail.com or @rocketmail.com.


--


  ---
  https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial