Re: SGS or PWS in Belgium?

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

A better picture that John sent me clearly shows
that I was wrong: the sundial is indeed made of mosaic...
So I don't need to go examine it with binoculars, as I intended to...
;-)

Thierry
Brussels


Thierry van Steenberghe wrote:

  
  Dear John,
  
as W. Leenders already informed, this is no SGS, but a very nice wall
sundial.
  
It is on the "Pharmacie Anglaise", a nice neo-gothic house which was
built in 1895 on rue Montagne de la Cour, just at the corner of
Coudenberg, a street in central Brussels, for Charles Delacre, born
1826 and a pharmacist as you guessed, by architect Paul Saintenoy, who
became famous thanks
to his "art nouveau" buildings, most notably the nearby steel frame
department store "Old England" now refurbished as the museum for
musical instruments.
  
At the time, chocolate was mainly known as a medication or nutritive
complement, but was increasingly appreciated:  Delacre then opened a
successful chocolate factory in central Brussels. So successful in fact
that it soon needed more space, so a new factory was built in Vilvorde,
a Brussels suburb, in 1880. Then Delacre had the idea of developing a
chocolate biscuit (1891), and this is the start of a very successful
industry which still lives up, the name being synonym of one of the
best known high quality biscuits...
  
  I have some doubts about the claim that the
dial face be made of
mosaic: I rather have the impression it's made by the technique of
"sgrafite" (similar to fresco), which was hugely popular at the time
and that you can see as decorations on many 'art nouveau' houses built
in Brussels about the same time. I'll try to check that.
It is for sure in a very bad state, very flaky and damaged.
  
Best regards,
Thierry
Brussels
  
  
  
John Carmichael wrote:
  




Hi all:
 
I was researching stained glass sundials and I
found this
photo on flickr.com
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bluebird/407643625/in/set-72157594565203208/

 
First of all, I’m not sure what country it’s
in,
but the info on the flickr site implies it’s in Belgium.  There
apparently is no email address of the photographer, Sally Penny Henny,
so I can’t
write her to ask about it.
 
Secondly, there are clues in the photo that
tell
me that it
is not a stained glass sundial at all, but rather a painted wall
sundial.
 
If you look closely at the photo, the hour
numerals are not
reversed on the outside of the building photo as is customary with
stained
glass dials.  Also, it looks like the paint has peeled back and fallen
off
in the lower right side of the dial revealing white plaster
underneath. 
And I do see any lead came.
 
It’s a nice dial nevertheless.  Have any of
you
ever seen it and know where it is located? Do you have any better
photos of it?
 
Thanks
 
John
 


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Re: SGS or PWS in Belgium?

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Dear Fabio,

if you or anybody else want more pictures, I certainly do have pictures
in my files...
Please tell me.

Best regards,
Thierry
Brussels

Fabio Savian wrote:

  
  
  
  tomorrow and on sunday I'll be in
Brussels.
  After the news from Leenders I think
we know everything about the sundial in Brussels, however I'll be there
and if anybody needs other pics or info I can take them for you
(tomorrow will be rainy..).
   
  best regards, Fabio Savian
   
  PS my email on the mobile is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  Fabio Savian
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Paderno Dugnano, Milan, Italy
45° 34' 10'' N   9° 10' 9'' E
GMT +1 (DST +2)
  

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Re: SGS or PWS in Belgium?

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Dear John,

as W. Leenders already informed, this is no SGS, but a very nice wall
sundial.

It is on the "Pharmacie Anglaise", a nice neo-gothic house which was
built in 1895 on rue Montagne de la Cour, just at the corner of
Coudenberg, a street in central Brussels, for Charles Delacre, born
1826 and a pharmacist as you guessed, by architect Paul Saintenoy, who
became famous thanks
to his "art nouveau" buildings, most notably the nearby steel frame
department store "Old England" now refurbished as the museum for
musical instruments.

At the time, chocolate was mainly known as a medication or nutritive
complement, but was increasingly appreciated:  Delacre then opened a
successful chocolate factory in central Brussels. So successful in fact
that it soon needed more space, so a new factory was built in Vilvorde,
a Brussels suburb, in 1880. Then Delacre had the idea of developing a
chocolate biscuit (1891), and this is the start of a very successful
industry which still lives up, the name being synonym of one of the
best known high quality biscuits...

I have some doubts about the claim that the
dial face be made of
mosaic: I rather have the impression it's made by the technique of
"sgrafite" (similar to fresco), which was hugely popular at the time
and that you can see as decorations on many 'art nouveau' houses built
in Brussels about the same time. I'll try to check that.
It is for sure in a very bad state, very flaky and damaged.

Best regards,
Thierry
Brussels



John Carmichael wrote:

  
  
  

  
  Hi all:
   
  I was researching stained glass sundials and I
found this
photo on flickr.com
   
  http://www.flickr.com/photos/bluebird/407643625/in/set-72157594565203208/
  
   
  First of all, I’m not sure what country it’s in,
but the info on the flickr site implies it’s in Belgium.  There
apparently is no email address of the photographer, Sally Penny Henny,
so I can’t
write her to ask about it.
   
  Secondly, there are clues in the photo that tell
me that it
is not a stained glass sundial at all, but rather a painted wall
sundial.
   
  If you look closely at the photo, the hour
numerals are not
reversed on the outside of the building photo as is customary with
stained
glass dials.  Also, it looks like the paint has peeled back and fallen
off
in the lower right side of the dial revealing white plaster
underneath. 
And I do see any lead came.
   
  It’s a nice dial nevertheless.  Have any of you
ever seen it and know where it is located? Do you have any better
photos of it?
   
  Thanks
   
  John
   
  
  

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Re: Translation sites

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

As an engineer and a linguist, sometimes a translator too, and having
done research in machine translation (MT) for some years, I'd like to
comment a bit, even though I'm as biased as anybody else...:

Jack Aubert wrote:
As
a student of foreign languages, I admit to being biased,
however I have come to the conclusion that machine translation will
work
when and if they perfect artificial intelligence and not before.
It's not about perfecting artificial intelligence (which some say
doesn't exist: it's only the intelligence you put into a calculating
machine), it's about perfecting knowledge... 
Language is an extraordinarily complicated faculty of our
(extraordianrily complicated) brains. So, understanding how it works is
only work in progress, and trying to model it to handle it with
machines can only work to ...some extent, even though remarkable
progress has been obtained already.
 
The only use for these machine translations is to for one's own use to
get an approximate rendering of a text that you can't read at all. 
They can give you some clue if you have no knowledge at all of the
original language but you wouldn't want to use these things to publish
to
a language that you don't understand. 
This is indeed a pretty correct and reasonable statement: MT at least
allows you to quickly get an idea of what is in a text you can't
understand, so you can judge whether it's worth to have it translated
(by a human). 
(With good, well tweaked systems, you can obtain very good results that
a human translator can easily and efficiently check and correct. There
are also different MT systems, some based on "translation memory",
giving very excellent results for repetitive kinds of texts. The
European Commission, with now 21 official languages -yes sir!- make use
of such systems since years.)

However, there is a restriction more: good (not necessarily free!) MT
can indeed sometimes give surprisingly for "general texts", if such
thing exist. But a great deal depends e.g. on the extent of the
included dictionaries, and for any "technical" texts, the use of
specialized terminological dictionaries is requested... 
(A great deal also depends on the quality of the source text!)

Now, the internet is a wonderfully rich resource, and there are plenty
of (mostly general) dictionaries available for nearly any language...
See for example http://www.dicorama.com/ a site in
French which has a
large catalogue of dictionaries.
Another resource is the Logos site, with dictionaries and other tools
offered by a reputed MT company.
There is also for example the IDP, Internet Dictionary Project, a nice
collaborative project where everyone can add translations...

As for specialized dictionaries, there are also many resources on the
net: and for sundialling, this list is certainly one...!

Kind regards,
Thierry

50.5 N 4.3 E


  
Here is what free translation did with a posting on the Italian sundial
list where Valentino Falcone thanks everybody on behalf of John
Carmichael for their prompt responses to his request for copyright
information that had been passed on earlier.  You can get the
general drift, particularly if you understood the original, but it sure
sounds goofy.   
  
To all of the limb of the Group,
  
I Come to to offer the most heard thanks aside of John Carmichael, and
also aside mine, to all the kind limb of the Severe Group that
satisfied
in a batter of ochio the express desire from the ours esteemed John
Carmichael di Tucson, Arizona, of to be able to communicate with
them.  It is stayed surprised and enthusiast, and I think that now
will not have more no difficulty of to continue to send us of the
mails,
seen that the English is very spread in bosom to the group.  I
profit of the present one to wish a radiant New Year to ALL of THE
adoratoratori of the Alone god and of indispensable Shadow goddess
sister
its, without that our quadrants will not be able more to work.  
  
Thanks still and OMENS to all
  
Valentino Falcon, from the Gaul Transalpine
  
  
  
  
  
At 09:11 AM 1/6/2007, Artisan wrote:
  
  Hello All,

Recent postings have me considering foreign language translation. 
What do you think is the best, most accurate/effective online foreign
language translation site?

Jim Tallman
www.artisanindustrials.com
www.spectrasundial.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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-- 
tvs - sign


__

Thierry van
Steenberghe
Bruxelles / Belgium
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
__ 




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Re: Sundial book by Mark Lennox-Boyd

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

I agree that this is indeed a nice book (I own a copy), but it is not 
"new": it was published in 2005.

Best regards,
Thierry

Douglas Bateman wrote:

This is an excellent book - very well illustrated and with chapters  
that put different types of dial, and developments, in their 
historical  context.  Many 'sculptural' dials are shown, with examples 
from the USA  and Japan.  Of course, Sir Mark's own superb dials are 
shown in detail.


I can highly recommend it, although I am biassed because my noon dial  
on glass is included!


Regards, Doug

On Aug 15, 2006, at 05:48, John Pickard wrote:


Good afternoon,
 
Has anyone seen a new sundial book by Mark Lennox-Boyd "Sundials:  
history, art, people, science"?
 
Amazon website:  
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0711224943/sr=1-12/qid=1155617168/ 
ref=sr_1_12/002-5748324-1468869?ie=UTF8&s=books


Cheers, John
 
John Pickard

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Error Messages

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Both links work just fine for me (using Netscape 7.1)...
Thierry


John Carmichael wrote:

  
  
  
  Hi Dave:
   
  Everybody gets error messages when
they click on this (the email I sent to the Sundial List).  Error
message says "improper syntax".:
   
  http://StainedGlassSundials.com/CupolaSundial
   
  I also got the error message when I
clicked on it.  Then I copied and pasted it into the URL box on my
browser, hit "Go" and it worked fine.  What causes this?  Does this
happen to you.  Can it be fixed?
   
  Or should we tell everybody to use
this direct URL instead:
   
  http://advanceassociates.com/Sundials/Stained_Glass/CupolaSundial/
   
  John







-

Re: educational dials for schools

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

sundialling set called "tic-tac solarium" under the label "ItsImagical".

It contains a plastic base with a small compass, a latitude-adjustable 
gnomon and a set of templates for different latitudes, in 5° steps.
In addition, there is a string which allows to draw a larger circle, 
either on sand or on a firm surface with a chalk, and you can then 
divide it according to the template placed on the base. The gnomon is 
long enough to cast its shadow on the outer part.


The origin is Spain (even though made in China).
The company data on the box are

StepTwo SA
Plataforma Logistica
PLA-ZA
c/ Osca, 4
E-50197 Zaragoza, Spain

They have importers in Mexico, Peru, Argentina.
(I obviously have no connections whatsoever with the company!)

I hope this helps.

--
__

Thierry
50.1 N 4.3 E
__


heiner thiessen wrote:


Is anyone out there aware of makers of educational sundials (perhaps with an
international distribution) whose products are well affordable for tight
school budgets?
Heiner Thiessen
51N1W

-

 






-

Re: dials on bridges

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

thread about sundials on bridges on this list.
I copy here a follow-up info given a few months later about the bridge 
by Calatrava which was at the start of the 2003 thread:


---
Sundial list (4/7/2004):

A 217-foot bridge pylon forms the gnomon of a sundial. The Sundial 
Bridge, by Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava, across Sacramento River 
at Redding, California, opens today. I think that the dial face is 
marked on a plaza at the end of the bridge.


http://www.turtlebay.org/sundial/sundial.shtml
---

So, not a sundial on a bridge, but a sundial-bridge and conversely...

Now, for an ancient sundial on a bridge, I can at least point you to the 
"Ponte Vecchio" in Firenze, Italy, where there is a sundial in the form 
of a scaphe (half-spherical surface), if I my memory serves: I would 
guess that it dates 17th or 18th c.


Cheers,
Thierry

--
______

Thierry van Steenberghe
50.5 N 4.3 E
__


Frank Evans wrote:


Greetings fellow dialists,
Dials on bridges seem not all that common and indeed I have a 
statement before me that says that there are only three such dials in 
the British Isles. This is a slight underestimate. I am aware of 
bridge dials at Ross on Wye, Hereford, at Sinnington in North 
Yorkshire, at Corbridge and at Berwick on Tweed, both Northumberland, 
and at Llanrwst, Gwynnedd, North Wales. The Corbridge dial appears 
never to have been completed while the dials at Sinnington, Berwick 
and Lllanrwst are all twentieth century. The Ross dial, unlike the 
others, is a vertical and is in fact a cube; I do not have a date for it.


A bridge seems an ideal place for a dial with lots of passers by and 
unlikely to be overshadowed. Why, then, only recent bridge dials? Have 
we knowledge of earlier bridge dials? In other countries?


By the way, the Berwick dial, which I am currently investigating, is a 
1995 replacement for one lost in 1953 when a fisherman is said to have 
moored his fishing net to it.

Frank 55N 1W.
-



--
______

Thierry van Steenberghe
Bruxelles / Belgium
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
__

-

Re: Handheld dialing software; BSS Web site

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Amazingly, nobody seems to have mentionned the excellent (shareware)
program 'Planetarium' for Palm computers, by A. Hofer...
It is a complete Planetarium, as the name implies, and gives Rise &
Set + Transit times, twilight times, and the position of the Sun and
planets, even a detailed celestial map. It calculates solstices and
many other things.
See http://www.aho.ch/pilotplanets
Fantastic!

A simpler program (freeware) for Palm is RiseSet, which gives Rise,
Set, Transit, Altitude, Azimuth and Day Length.
It can be found, as well as othe nice programs, on the author's David
W. Bray web site http://www.40-below.com/palm/
Highly recommended!
There is also info for the development of Palm programs: maybe the
source of DC can be used to compile a Palm version?

Yet another program is Sol! (shareware)

Palm PDAs have the advantage that they use a very stable OS, very
compact programs, and a lot of freeware and shareware is available.
Look for example at http://www.palmgear.com or www.palmsource.com among
many other download sites (Tucows, etc.)

Cheers,

Thierry
50.5 N 4.3 E




Robert Terwilliger wrote:

  Richard Hollands wrote:

  
  
Last comment in this thread!

  
  
I hope not. I have been following the thread, and I am planning to update
the NASS / Dialist Companion web pages to help people with handhelds to
install and use DC.

PocketDos sounds like it may be essential, and I suspect Richard is right -
the Clock Screen will try to access PC video hadware directly - and not find
it. 

Please post general comments to the list. Specific comments, and those about
specific handhelds can be sent directly to me.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thanks,

Bob

  
  
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Richard Hollands
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 2:55 AM
To: John Carmichael; Sundial List
Subject: RE: Handheld dialing software; BSS Web site


OK, not perfectly. The clock page doesn't work at all. I'm 
guessing it's trying to access the hardware directly.

Last comment in this thread!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Richard Hollands
Sent: 09 May 2005 22:46
To: John Carmichael; Sundial List
Subject: RE: Handheld dialing software; BSS Web site



John,

Just to complete the story: I just downloaded Pocket DOS and 
the Dialists Companion and they both run perfectly. You have 
to install DC on your PC then copy the files across. The 
install program won't run under PocketDOS.
(DC runs under Pocket DOS not Windows CE)

My Pocket PC is an HP Ipaq 4700, an expensive beast but 
that's what unexpected bonuses are for. I'll play with the 
Dialists Companion now so talk to you later :-)

Richard

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Richard Hollands
Sent: 09 May 2005 22:18
To: John Carmichael; Sundial List
Subject: RE: Handheld dialing software; BSS Web site




John,

The Dialists Companion is a DOS program and, despite what the 
website says, isn't compatible with any version of Windows CE.

However, if you're so at home with DC you want it on your 
palm-top you can get PocketDOS from www.pocketdos.com which 
is a PC emulator which will run on most palm-top PCs. I've 
used the earlier version and it really is a very good 
emulator. Altogether costing pocket money really and you can 
trial it first anyway.

What I'd like is Helmut's 'Sonne' for Pocket PC ...

Richard

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Carmichael
Sent: 09 May 2005 16:06
To: Sundial List
Subject: Re: Handheld dialing software; BSS Web site


Hello Richard:

It's good to know that at least one of you has had success 
using a sun program with a palm-held devise.  There is hope!

I don't know much about these minicomputers. Do you think all 
types hand-held devices will work? Could you recommend a 
brand and model number?

Ideally, it would be good to find one that works with Dialist 
Companion also.

John

- Original Message -
From: "Richard Hollands" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sundial List" 
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 12:24 AM
Subject: RE: Handheld dialing software; BSS Web site




  I've transferred the 'Ubisol' page to my pocket PC and it works OK. 
Palm devices don't generally allow pop-ups which the page uses for 
changing your co-ordinates but you can just type them in the form 
fields and hit Enter.
You do need to have _javascript_ enabled for it to work.

Richard

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Carmichael
Sent: 08 May 2005 17:37
To: anselmo
Cc: Sundial List
Subject: Re: Handheld dialing software; BSS Web site


On my crummy cell phone that has limited internet capacity, 
  

I was not 


  able to use either the BSS "Where's the sun" or the Spanish 
  

"Ubisol" 


  website that Anselmo mention

Re: Porcelain Sundial Faces

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

John Carmichael wrote:

  
  
  
  Hello all:
   
  I've been investigating the best and
most durable materials for the sundial faces of my sundial cupola
design.
   
  I've discovered this:
   
  1. Even the best enamel paints chip,
wear off and fade.
  2. Baked powder coat paints are much
more durable but you can not easily paint more than one color or a
design on top of another color. You can not overglaze, (put another
layer of powdercoat over a base layer).
  3. Porcelain has a great advantage
in that it can be overglazed with different colors of vitreous paints
and refired.  So porcelain painting is similar to glass painting in
that you can paint it with a permanent overglaze of different colored
paints that do not fade, chip or flake off.  It's practically
weather-proof!
   
  Many old clock faces were made on
painted porcelain for these very good reasons. 
   
  There are companies who will paint
and fire your sundial design on porcelain. They can make stencils from
your design drawings or they can paint by hand.  I even found one
company that has a photographic technique of applying paint to
porcelain. (and it's here in Tucson!)
   
  Have any of you ever seen a painted
porcelain sundial?

Yes: a friend of mine once offered me a reproduction of an ancient
ceramic tiles sundial, and he himself made at least two of them which
are on walls in Spain. There also happens to be one close to where I
live, here in Brussels, Belgium.
(I might be able to find back pictures).

I also remember to have seen at least one on the 'Shadows' site and
some others but I can't remember where: probably looking up sundials
directories would yield several interesting examples.

Cheers,
Thierry
-- 

tvs - sign


______________

Thierry van
Steenberghe
Bruxelles / Belgium
__ 


   
  Here are a couple of good websites
about porcelain painting (also known as "china painting").
   
  http://www.china-painting-list.com/fullsrch.html
  http://www.porcelainpainters.com/
  http://www.porcelain-industries.com/porcelain-industries/porcelain-industries.htm
   
  John L. Carmichael
Sundial Sculptures
925 E. Foothills Dr.
Tucson AZ 85718-4716
USA
Tel: 520-6961709
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  My Websites:
Sundial Sculptures: http://www.sundialsculptures.com
Stained Glass Sundials: http://www.stainedglasssundials.com







-

Re: Sundial Cupolas

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

In addition to my earlier message re St Margaret, you can see a nice
picture of the church (and one of the dials) at
http://www.westminster-abbey.org/stmargarets/index.html

while the dials themselves are described at
http://www.westminster-abbey.org/stmargarets/guide/tow_bell.htm

Thierry
-- 

tvs - sign


__

Thierry van
Steenberghe
50.5N 4.3E
__ 


John Carmichael wrote:

  
  
  
  Hello All:
   
[...]
  Have any of you ever seen a cupola
or "clock tower" with sundials instead of clocks?
   
  







-

Re: Sundial Cupolas

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

John Carmichael wrote:

  
  
  
  Hello All:
   [...]
  Have any of you ever seen a cupola
or "clock tower" with sundials instead of clocks?
   

I remember that St Margaret church, near
Westminster, London (UK) has a square tower with a round blue sundial
on each of the four faces, yes, including north. (I can't remember
whether this is instead or in addition to mechanical clock faces: does
it matter?)

Now, I was wondering: is "cupola" the right term for this thing? In
French you call it "une lanterne", while "une coupole" is a dome; of
course, English is not my mother language, is there any architectural
terminology buff out there to, well, enlight me (éclairer ma lanterne)?

Cheers,
Thierry
-- 

tvs - sign


______

Thierry van
Steenberghe
50.5N 4.3E
__ 





-

Re: Can we please NOT reverse things?

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Roger Bailey wrote:


I count Patrick's vote as one for reversing things and compared to many
votes to leave it as it is. The current reply method as a default replies
only to the writer. You have to take specific actions, either "reply all" or
changing the addresses to reply to the list. Postings to the list are now
deliberate and not accidental. This is the way I think it should be.


It seems perfectly obvious to me, especially for an unmoderated list.
(For a moderated list, it is indeed normal practice to have the 
'reply-to' the moderator, who can then decide to accept, edit or reject 
the posting, as it is his/her function.)


Anyway, it's so easy to choose either 'reply' to reply privately or 
'reply all' (and possibly delete the list address if you want to make a 
private reply ansd chose the wrong option) that one cannot see the problem.


With the other option, we got too many private messages of the type "oh, 
by the way, George, what about your holidays? It's raining here!" unduly 
broadcast on the list.


Thierry van Steenberghe
50.5 N 4.3 E



Neither of these systems offers a retrieve option. This feature allows you
to take back messages that, on second thought, should never have been sent.
Government email systems often offer this feature but the sundial list
cannot. You will notice from some of my postings that I could use such a
feature.

Roger Bailey
N48.6  W123.4





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Patrick Powers
Sent: March 18, 2004 12:06 PM
To: sundial
Subject: Can we please reverse things?


TO DANIEL: Can we please change back to the previous addressing system
ASAP?  I am constantly deleting things as if they are Spam when they are
not, am replying to the wrong address, and on top of that am now beginning
to make mistakes with all other mail lists like Rete which use the sensible
system. The current sytem (though admittedly supported by a few others) is
(to me) a logistical  mess.

Patrick

-

-

 





-

Re: Place de la Concorde

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Barry N. Wainwright wrote:

  >From a Frenchman:


Levant has two meanings: sunset and East

Not sunset, but sunrise, as was indeed corrected below:

  
I understand the sentence as:
"In Paris, the north rises at the East (or sunrise) of Thebes"
  

And a third (now not so common anymore) meaning in French, as already
pointed out for English by someone else: the Near-Esat or Middle-East.

Thierry
-- 

tvs - sign


__________

Thierry van
Steenberghe
Bruxelles / Belgium
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
__ 



  

To be quite honest, I'm not quite sure what this means outside of the entire
context...
I don't remember how the obelisk is oriented on the Concorde either... It
could be related.


Corentin
 
  







-

Re: Sundials in Bretagne /Finistaire (France)

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Best regards,
Thierry


Martin Marbach wrote:


Hi all,

does anybody have a list of sundials in Bretagne (France)
or a reference to a book ?

Many thanks in advance.

martin marbach

[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-

 




-

new book

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Dear all,

A quite interesting book (in French) was newly published by CNRS
Editions:

"Les cadrans solaitres et méridiennes disparus de Paris"

by Andrée Gotteland (co-author of "Les cadrzans solaires d Paris" -
CNRS, 1993)

The ISBN is 2-271-05939-9
The publisher site is http://www.cnrseditions.fr

Please note that I have no connection neither with the publisher nor
with the author.

Best regards,
Thierry vs
--
__________

Thierry van Steenberghe
50.5N 4.3E
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__



-

Re: On cookies and English version of UbiSol

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Jack Aubert wrote:

>
> Cookies have always been a part of the Internet.

Mmmh, unfortunately... for commercial Internet.
However, Internet was in existence for several years before commercial 
interests got in, and and that time, you could hardly see any cookie 
anywhere... Guess why?

> The system was designed
> to make it impossible to do any damage with a cookie.

No damage, in the immediate sense, but some spying, which can be thought
of as a damage...
For example capturing an e-mail address than is later transferred to 
spammers, which IS a damage... Also, any kind of tracking of your path 
on the net is unacceptable...

> A web site can
> create a cookie, which is only a small text file, and cookies can only be
> read by the site that created them.

Not quite so: they can either be read only by the site who *originated*
it (which is not the same as *created*) or by any other provided there 
is some kind of an arrangement, as examplified by a nuisance as that of
doubleclick...

> When the Internet started to become
> very popular, people who didn't really understand the technology began to
> worry about cookies.

Yeah...?

> Around the same time, advertising companies, notably
> doubleclick.com perfected the technique of cross-site cookies, but only by
> being a partner on many sites.  This permitted double click to read what it
> had left off on one site when you visited another site if doubleclick had
> an arrangement with both.  Even so, it can only read what you tell it.

Well, no: what your computer tells it, i.e. whatever is in there... 
Actually you are never asked to tell anything to a cookie: at best you 
are asked whether you allow it or not.

>
> You are right that this is a controversial question, but I do not believe
> it is impolite to use cookies.  I think cookie paranoia is on the decline,
> and the current version of Microsoft Internet Explorer, which is now the
> dominant browser lets the user block all or some cookies.

There are also a number of 'cookie managers' which do a more 
sophisticated job by allowing cookies of trusted sites while refusing 
suspect ones like those of advertising companies such as doubleclick... 
They relieve you from the hassle of having to decide every time whether 
you accept or reject the cookie if you choose an (advisable) 'ask me' 
option.

Anyway, unless a site use cookies for good reasons, such as giving you 
a direct access to its pages in your preferred language (supposing you 
really want to register that instead of clicking your choice every time)
or accepting to be identified as a regular customer for commercial sites
you often visit, I would bluntly recommend to avoid them as much as 
possible, maybe helped by using a good cookie manager.

So, Anselmo, thanks for your choice of a 'clean' Internet...
We are probably all able to change the coordinates each time, and we 
probably have to, because we want to have the calculations for different
places, not necessarily ours...
If any further enhancement in this respect would be deemed useful, it 
could be brought by making provision to store a number of places with 
corresponding coordinates, and/or leaving the possibility to introduce 
one's own places...

Very nice job anyway, Anselmo, thanks again!
Thierry
--
__

Thierry van Steenberghe
50.5 N 4.3 E
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__



>
>
> Jack
>
> At 01:22 PM 4/23/2003 +0200, you wrote:
> >John Hall wrote:
> >
> >>One other thought has occurred to me regarding the setting of new
> >>coordinates - if these are stored in a 'cookie' by the JavaScript - the
> >>user would not have to set up the calculator each time at their own location
> >
> >A lot of thanks for your help, John. In fact, the idea of the calculator
> >came to my mind when I was making a simple exercise on how to set up
> >JavaScript cookies,
> >but I discarded the idea because I thought it'd be unpolite to introduce
> >cookies in some other people's computers. You know this is a controverted
> >question!
> >
> >Anyway, John's suggestion gave me the idea to introduce the cookies BUT
> >asking first the user for permission.  What do you people think about this?
> >
> >By the way. Attending to your requests I've made a full English version of
> >UbiSolis. It is still at
> >
> >http://www.relojesdesol.org/UbiSolENG.html
> >I'll try to make a Dutch version when I've got time for it, and I would
> >greatly appreciate your sending me translations in other languages.
> >
> >Keep sending suggestions!
> >
> >
> >Anselmo Perez Serrada
> >
> >-
>
> -

-

Re: My New Website

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

> John Carmichael wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> [...]
>
> Anyway, please have a look. I'm particularly interested if any of you have 
> problems downloading the four PDF files that describe sundial functions at 
> the bottom of the "Functions" page at 
> http://www.sundialsculptures.com/content/functions.html If you have problems 
> with these PDFs would you let me know?

No downloading problems for any PDF §using NS 4.8)
No problems to view them either (using Acrobat 4.05)

> Also, any comments on the following would be much appreciated:
> 1. Do you think it is user friendly for someone who knows nothing about 
> sundials?
> 2. Do you think it is too complicated or overloaded with too much information?
> 2. Do you see any errors such as typos, false or misleading information?
>
> Thanks.  We hope you like it.
>
> John

Congratulations, it's a nice site for sure!

A few bugs and remarks though, if it can help:

- None of the pop-ups did work: pics on the photo page, awards button.
(using NS 4.8)
- On the page 'Design & construction' and also on the 'contact' page the
pics seem to link to the home page, but it's actually not the case?
- None of the links clearly appear as such until the cursor happens to
pass over them; and after being activated they don't change colour as is
the standard behaviour. Maybe this is for aesthetics, but usability
should be the prime consideration, IMHO.
- The NASS logo does not have an 'ALT' tag like the 'BSS' (correctly)
does on the home page, but not on all others. The two logos are similar
enough to be confusing for pedestrian users, so these tags should be
there..
- The 'BSS' logo link does use the 'self' window instead of a 'blank'
window on at least one occasion (page 'contact us')

All the best!
Thierry

__

Thierry van Steenberghe
50.5N 4.3E
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__



-

Re: Spare copies of a book with pop-out models to make

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Hello!

Yes, I'd be happy to get a copy... if you still have some?
Please send me your mail address for sending the note...
Thanks a lot already!
Thierry
--
______

Thierry van Steenberghe
Bruxelles / Belgium
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__

peter ransom wrote:

> Today I was fortunate to liberate (at a discounted price of £2 each) 10
> copies of the book TIME by Silke Ackermann and Paul Buck published by the
> British Museum at £8.99.
>
> This is an A4 book with 32 pages plus 4 pages of press-out-and-make models
> of a universal equatorial dial (there are two separate models - one for each
> hemisphere), a nocturnal (again, one for each hemisphere) and a perpetual
> calendar. It even comes with a small compass on the front for your
> equatorial dial!
>
> I am happy to send one copy to the first 11 people who reply (off list) and
> request my address so they can send me £3 (UK only - cash or cheque) or 10
> Euros (or a £5 note) (Europe) or $8 (rest of world) in used notes to avoid
> horrendous bank charges. The difference in price is due to the cost of the
> book plus postage.
>
> People in the UK may find the book for sale at The Works (a publishing
> outlet shop) if there is one handy.
>
> Happy New Year to everyone.
>
> Peter Ransom
> (Hampshire, GB)
>
> ps
> Quite an auspicious day as my daughter also got engaged today!
>
> _
> MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
> -




-

Re: How do we call the equinoxes? ansd solstices?

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

I can only agree that naming the equinoxes by the month is less poetic
but more general and unambiguous...

The same holds, it seems, for the solstices: they are usually called (in
this hemishpere) "winter" and "summer" solstices and that's again
inapprpriate for the southern half!
The month-based naming thus appears more general for all four points.

Thierry
--
__

50.5 N 4.3 E
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__


Thibaud Taudin-Chabot wrote:

>  But our people at down under will call it reverse!
> March and September equinox are more general.
> Thibaud
>
> At 14:00 27-11-2002 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> I like "spring" and "fall" equinox because it's less letters to
>> carve. My customers always mix up vernal and autumnal.
>>
>> John
>>
>> John L. Carmichael Jr.
>> Sundial Sculptures
>> 925 E. Foothills Dr.
>> Tucson Arizona 85718
>> USA
>>
>> Tel: 520-696-1709
>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Website: 
>>
>>  - Original Message -
>>  From: The Shaws
>>  To:sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de
>>  Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 12:21 PM
>>  Subject: RE: How do we call the equinoxes?
>>
>>  Art Carlson suggested:
>>  <>
>>
>>  What wonderful simple, understandable names.
>>  I'll go for that :-)
>>
>>
>>  Mike Shaw
>>
>>  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>  http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jmikeshaw/
>>
>>  N 53º 21' 24"
>>  W 03º 01' 47"
>>  Wirral, UK.
>>
> -
> Th. Taudin Chabot, home email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






-

Re: Clock

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Thanks for sharing this, Willy.
Better late than never... I think I should warn potential users of this
suggested motto, how nice as it is, that the correct spelling is "Dans
CET espace, le temps s'efface".
The word 'espace' is indeed masculine in general, and only feminine
in the typography sense of a blank space between words or characters.
Thierry
--
______________
Thierry van Steenberghe
50.5 N 4.3E
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__
 
 
Willy Leenders wrote:
I forwarded the link to my son Jo.
The fast work of pencil and gum inspired him (mother language Dutch)
to the verses in French language:
Dans
cette espace,le temps s'efface.
 (In this space, time is sweeped out)
A nice sundial motto!
And so, Mike, your message becomes 'on topic'.
 
Willy Leenders
Hasselt, Flanders in Belgium
 
 
The Shaws wrote:
Though not strictly on topic, I heard about a new
Irish
digital clock available on line.   See:
http://www.yugop.com/ver3/stuff/03/fla.html
Mike Shaw
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jmikeshaw/
N 53º 21' 24"
W 03º 01' 47"
Wirral, UK.
-


 
 

Re: The "Green Flash"

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Robert Terwilliiger wrote:

>
> Some time ago the list was discussing the "green flash" occasionally
> reported at sunsets.
>
> There is a good photograph on "Astronomy Picture of the Day"
>
> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap021110.html
>
> Bob Terwilliger
>
> -

Can't remember this discussion... probably some *long* time ago?

Just for the sake of information, there was (a few years ago!) a nice
movie by Eric Rohmer called 'Le rayon vert' (the green flash). Nearly
nothing to do with astronomy, except that the characters attend many
sunsets in the hope of seeing the green flash, and in the end, they see
one. That's the time to make a wish!

Cheers,
Thierry

--
__

Thierry van Steenberghe
50.5 N 4.3 E
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__




-

Re: Maximizing photo quality

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Tony Moss wrote:

>
> John et al,
>
> >So here's my two questions to Bill:
> >
> >1. How much did your camera cost  (If you don't mind telling)?
> >2. Does your camera have changeable lenses?
> >2. Since it is digital, can you make a close-up shot digitally without a
> >close up or telephoto lens?
> >3. How close to your subject can you get and still stay in focus?
>
> Having soldiered on for years with an early Kodak digicam with a 2x zoom
> and a useful 8" 'macro' focus used for most of my distributed JPEGs I
> eventually bit the bullet and upgraded to a Nikon CoolPix 5700 mainly
> because of its 8x optical plus 4x digital zoom.  It will also focus right
> down to 30mm or 1.2" distance without additional lenses.  Certainly is is
> a high-end choice but if you need a camera which will get closeups of
> those way-up-high sundials or a crisp image of 'nit on a gnat's nut' this
> little wonder has everything packed into a beautifully engineered
> magnesium alloy body.  How I wish I'd bought it for the BSS Austria trip.
>
> A word to the wise - OPTICAL zoom is the thing.  Digital 'zoom' just
> clips the middle from the image.
>
> Tony Moss.
> -

Yes, Tony's remark is important for newcomers to digital photo: optical zoom
is the thing, and digital zoom should just be forgotten... the clip being
enlarged, the quality is  going down fast! Moreover, the digital zooming is
better done later on on a pc with any image processing programme, like
Photoshop or siblings, allowing to choose the best clip framing and the exact
enlargement/resolution balance.

No wonder the D-40 with 4 Mpixels gives good results!

I use an Olympus Camedia 2100 (2.1 Mpixels) which has a 10x optical zoom, AND
a stabilization circuit which should help to get focused images at even the
highest focal length (~380mm for a 35mm SLR): nice for high placed sundials!
(It's -inevitably- a bit bulky and retro-looking, but light and well thought.
I'm not sure whether it is still available.)

At 2 Mpix prints look just perfect in standard 10x15cm size; I have not tried
larger prints, but I'm told they are still OK at 18x24 or even 24x30 (using
an apt photo printer, of course), but of course more is better... except in
file size.

If the thing is viewing pictures on screen, and even more to send them over
low-bandwith Interne connections, then a lower resolution (72 or 96 dpi) is
adequate: the best is again to reduce the resolution in software later,
keeping the original hi-res pictures for printing.

I've heard of a recent Nikon (D-100?) which uses interchangeable standard
Nikon lenses... and costs about 1000 EUR.

One more word about scanning: I think John Carmichael's conclusion should be
taken with caution, as the scanning can be done in very different conditions,
besides the quality of the scanner and of the scanned picture itself.

Cheers,
Thierry
--
__

Thierry van Steenberghe
50.5 N 4.3 E
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__



-

Re: software

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

François PINEAU wrote:

>
> hello all
> a few years ago, I download a free software wich help for archiving and
> classifing sundials pictures. It was made by an Italian gnomonist. After
> changing my computer and little virus trouble, I lose this software. Can any
> one know it? what is the web adress where I can found it?
> thanks for help
> François Pineau
>
> -

Bonjour François,

it is AQS95 (my version is 4.2c from 01/99), by Diego Bonata, and you should
find it on http://www.vialetta.net/bonata/aqs95ing.htm

Good luck!
Thierry
--
______________

Thierry van Steenberghe
50.5N 4.3E
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__



-

Re: Sundial Trade Association & The Sundial Shoppe

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Dear Warren,

Warren Thom wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> [...]
>
> I did want to correct the location of the Sundial Shop.  It is not
> located in Paris, but at Carcassone.  Carcassone is a few hours south of
> Paris and is a walled city/castle.
>
> >On a related topic, Warren Thom showed us a slide of a cute little
> store in
> >Paris called The Sundial Shoppe that only sold sundials  [...]
>
> Take care,
>
> Warren Thom  (41.6498 N  88.0964 W)
>
> -

Carcassone is much smaller than Paris, but still...
Could you happen to remember the address of this place?
Is the name a translation, or is it as such (astonishing)?
Thanks already for any hint.
tvs
--
__

Thierry van Steenberghe
50.5N 4.3E
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__




-

Re: Anti-sundial

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

I don't know where you live, but there is one reason it won't work: 
overcast sky! It usually happens when you wish it wouldn't, isn't it?

So, a nice (if dull) all-weather solution is to buy your wife a
simple...
compass! (It's funny that nobody came with this simple and effective
solution?). The 30° accuracy can probably be obtained with the key-chain
type (~3$) while standard types (~25$) should easily provide 5°
accuracy.

At least it's cheaper than a new car with one built-in... ;-)
In the mid-range, there are also neat compass-watches.

Now, if you insist for the Palm hi-tech solution for sunny days, there 
are programmes that do exactly what you suggest: a nice one is 
Planetarium, by A. Hofer: http://www.aho.ch

Cheers,
Thierry
50.5 N (overcast) 4.3 E


Steve Turley wrote:

>
> Esteemed list...
>
> My wife is a realtor who often wants to determine the direction a house
> is facing. Being directionally impaired, and not having a car with a
> built-in compass, she is usually at a loss. I had the idea, not
> especially original or brilliant, of writing an anti-sundial for her
> Palm PDA. My idea is that, given the time and approximate location and
> knowing the position of the sun, we should be able to determine which
> way is North. I was thinking of a program that would draw a compass rose
> and display a marker showing the sun's position. She would then rotate
> the Palm until the marker pointed at the sun and, voila, the rose would
> be oriented properly. Accuracy of +/- 30 degrees is adequate.
> Any reason this won't work?
> And, since I'm mathematically lazy, can someone tell me how to do the
> calculation?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -



-

Re: time scale labels

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Hello, Willy!

I'd be glad to see the drawings.
Could you tell us where exactly the building is being built, so that we can go 
and
see, and maybe also give some info about who the owners are and how did you
convince them to include a sundial on their building?

Thanks already and all the best.
Thierry
50.5 N 4.3 E


Willy Leenders wrote:

>
> Fer,
>
> Only the first design drawings of the sundial are available.
> The building is in construction and reaches on this moment the ground floor
> level.
> I can send on demand 3 drawings in jpeg-format (scanned of an Excell worksheet
> graphic).
> Drawing 1: the sundial for a vertical wall
> Drawing 2: the sundial for the cylindric wall, projection on a vertical plane
> Drawing 3: the sundial for the cylindric wall, unrolled in a plane
> Drawing 3 includes the coordinates for the intersections of the hour lines and
> the date lines (zodiac sign periodes) for use at the construction.
> The architects choose for hourlines corresponding solar time with correction 
> to
> standard time only for the longitude and date lines only for solstices and
> equinoxes.
> The drawings  have the same scale and correspond to the 3 phases ('fase' in
> Dutch) of the calculation.
>
> Orientation of the wall: 20,233 degree west of south
> Heigth of the sundial: between 15 m and 18 m.
> Radius of the cylinder: 4630 mm
> Arrow of the arc: 1363 mm
> Latitude: 50,865 north
> The sundial is a nodal sundial. The node is situated in the middle of the cord
> of the arc.
>
> Who checks the calculations?
>
> Willy Leenders
> Hasselt, Flanders, Belgium
>





-

Re: Time Museum Auction

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Tom Kreyche wrote:

> There is an article in the NY Times today (Page B38 in my edition)
> about Seth Atwood and the (now defunct) TimeMuseum. According to the
> article, Mr. Atwood is "…now going back to Sotheby's. He is selling an
> additional 218 pieces from his collection on Wednesday, in an auction
> titled 'Masterpieces From the Time Museum, Part II.' "
>
> The collection is on Sotheby's web site but doesn't appear to have any
> dials or non-mechanized astronomical instruments.
>
> BTW if you haven't seen one of the books published by the TimeMuseum,
> "Time Measuring Instruments, Astrolabes, Astrolabe Related
> Instruments" by A.J. Turner, it's a real treat.
>
> Tom Kreyche
>

Dear Tom,

I do own a copy of the marvelous "Western Astrolabes" book published by
the Time Museum.
I wonder whether other books of the series have been published or
prepared (and if they will be published eventually?), e.g. the one
planned since years about sundials?
The plan supposedly was to publish a whole series as a museum catalogue.

Any info appreciated!

Best regards,
Thierry vs
50.5N 4.3E




-

Re: Why the clock rotates clockwise?

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Sumi Yoichi wrote:

>
> Sundialists
>
> I want to ask a simple question to sundialists in the ML.
> " Why the clock rotates clockwise?" Most Japanese horologist says as
> follows. In the very old times, primitive people knew the rough time from
> the sun-shadow of the vertical gnomon on the ground. In that case, the
> shadow of the gnomon rotates clockwise on the north hemisphere, so the
> clockwise-rotating mechanical clock was made. This is right?
> Sundialists know well the shadow of the gnomon of the vertical type sundial
> on the wall rotates anticlockwise. I think the way of looking at the clock
> is very like the vertical sundial on the wall. Why the clock maker did not
> make the anticlockwise-clock? Can anyone know the article or the web-site in
> English dealing with my question?
> Thanks in advance
>
> Sumi Yoichi
> Japan
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.spi.ne.jp/~gnomon/
>
> -

The site at http://www.cam.net.uk/home/pb/index.html is devoted to 24 hour
clocks.

It includes a list of some 24h clocks in the UK, Europe and (old stuff) in the
now closed Chicago Time museum.
There is also a link to the page http://members.aol.com/donnl/clockwise.html
where there is a discussion about the clockwise clock. (Wise, isn't it? ;-))

Best regards,
Thierry vs
50.5N 4.3E





-

Re:

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Once again an effect of the 'new system' of replying...
Please think again, and meanwhile be cautious.
tvs
50.5N 4.3E
JاE LUI§ TUTANJAMØN wrote:
  SALUDOS DESDE MARBELLA: Agradecería 
solo   CASTELLANO.   

- Mensaje original -

De:
walter.jonckheere

Enviado: viernes, 24 de mayo de 2002
9:46

Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Asunto: Fw:
 
 
- Original Message -
From: Horlogerie
Van Gompen
To: VRD
- Pierre Demannez ; Jacques
Neve ; Alain
de Winiwarter ; John
Rickard ; Jean-Claude
BIRNFELDCc: Christian
Copet ; walter.jonckheere
; Marjan
Buyle ; Bernard
Delmotte ; Bruno
AN-HOR ANECASent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:57 PMSubject:
Tr:
  
- Original Message -
From: A
H
To: A-PARTNERS
BOVY Henri ; A
H ; Aeroplastics
; Fabienne
ALBERT ; Laurence
ALLART ; Bernadette
BOULANGER ; Bernard
Vanham ; David
Boizard ; Catherine
Gits ; Catherine
Gits ; Chantal
et Pascal MISSON-PAYOT ; Chris
Van hauwaert ; Christophe
Payot ; DRUART
; EuroGifts
SA ; EQUI-INFO
; Hu Fen
; Frédéric
; Renate HEESE
; Sarah Herssens ;
Michaël
VAN GOMPEN ; mobile
; Jean
Basile Maes ; Latifa
Karim ; UNIQUE
INTERIM ; Sarah
TAYLORSent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 9:49 AMSubject: Re:
 Un grand bonjour à tous !
On a beaucoup de doutes mais on verra bien. Qui ne risque rien n'a rien.
 
 
le 23/05/02 7:29, Michèle Gits à [EMAIL PROTECTED]
a écrit :
 
 
et si c'était
vrai
salut amical
 
-Original Message-
From: Guy DE KEYSER [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: mercredi 22 mai 2002 15:42
To: info COGEDEV
Subject: Fw: Re:
 
- Original Message -
From: Marilou Robert <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 6:22 PM
Subject: Fwd: Re:
COMME C'EST DRÔLE!!!
>From: "Sandy Pineault"
>To:
>Subject: Re:
>Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:05:29 +
>
>>Salut !!
>>>
>>>!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!
>>>
>>>Je fais jamais celà d'habitude... mais là je me suis
dit tout à
>>>coup que c'est vrai. En plus, j'ai vérifié le numéro
de téléphone
>>>et il est vrai!!! M. Bill Gate pourrait-il être assez fou
pour
>>>faire cela! chers amis. Lisez ce message et agissez vite. Il a été
>>>envoyé par un professionnel et cher ami pour assûrer
à Internet
>>>Explorer la place de programme le plus utilisé, les plus
grandes
>>>compagnies du web, Microsoft et AOL, ont testé la version
béta de
>>>ce programme. Quand vous enverrez cette lettre à vos copains,
>>>Microsoft va la contrôler pendant deux semaines. Microsoft
vous
>>>payera $245 pour chaque personne à >laquelle vous enverrez
ce
>>>message. Microsoft payera $243 pour chaque lettre transférée,
et
>>>pour chaque personne tierce qui recevra votre message, Microsoft
>>>payera $241.
>>>
>>>Dans deux semaines, Microsoft vous contactera par E-mail e vous
>>>enverra e-chèque. Au début j'avais des doutes, jusqu'à
ce que deux
>>>semaines après avoir envoyé ce message j'ai reçu
par poste
>>>électronique la communication et quelques jours après
un chèque de
>>>$24800.00. Envoyez absolument le message avant que le test de la
>>>version bêta de Internet Explorer ne se termine. Celui qui
peut se
>>>permettre tout cela est Monsieur Bill Gates. Tous les frais de
>>>marketing sont à sa charge. Faites-le bien. Vicky Talbot
>>>Vice-présidente Fragar Plurimédias inc. tél:
(514) 842-1312 télec:
>>>(514) 842-4116 On n'a rien à perdre. Essayez-le. Diane Boudreau
>>>Brossard (450) 923- poste 243 Sy assim.Diawara
>>>
>>>
>>>Marcelle
>>
>
>
>
 



Obtenga el máximo provecho del Web. Descarga GRATUITA de MSN
Explorer: http://explorer.msn.es/intl.asp#es

--
__
Thierry van Steenberghe
Bruxelles / Belgium
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__
 





-

Re: gnome and gnomon

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Peter Tandy wrote:

>
> I have always thought of gnomes as first wily/wise. The diminutive size of
> a gnome is shared with a "dwarf" but a "gnome" is also "knowing".
>
> I'm not sure I agree with this. Who else would sit by a pond not just for a
> day but for YEARS with a rod & line, with no hope whatsoever of catching
> anything but pneumonia!!!
>
> Peter Tandy
> (London)
>
> -

Maybe there is a name confusion: those poor (often simple indeed) creatures in
the gardens are 'dwarves' captured by the house inhabitants and sequestrated
there without anything to eat but the pond fishes, if any, and nothing for
entertainment, not even a sundial (no,no, this is not off topic...!), most of
the time...

That's why we have here around a famous organization named FLNJ (Front de
Libération des Nains de Jardin) which dedicates its forces to rapt them out and
to liberate them in their natural environment of woods...
(Authentic!).
I'm afraid this organisation is now on some black list...

Thierry

--
__

Thierry vs
50.8N 4.3E
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__





-

Re: gnome and gnomon

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Well yes, the words MAYBE and PERHAPS are the most important here...

I had also checked my reference historical dictionary (Robert 
historique) which tells about the same:

- "gnomon" cleraly comes from the greek  = rule, regulator, of
the same origin as the word  = opinion, thought. of the family of
the verb  = to know, which gave also "gnosis" (FR 'gnose').

- then "gnome" is from the alchemists latin  used by Paacelsius
as a synonym of 'Pygmée', and of which the origin is _discussed_. 
It is _maybe_ an alteration of <°genomus> of a greek type <°gênomos>
= inhabitant of the Earth, with the _possible_ influence of  
= opinion, thought, intelligence, as the "little ugly and difform 
wizards presiding the Earth" could have been regarded as having 
intellectual powers (cfr. 'demons').

The ° sign above means that the following word is _not_ evidenced in the
sources.

So, many conditional and uncertainties... The link, if any, seems very
very weak.
There was a time when etymology was all the rage, and philologists
wanted to find some filiation for any word... sometimes at the cost of
inventing!

Cheers,
Thierry vs
--
__

Thierry vs
50.8N 4.3E
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__



MMB wrote:

>
> Krzysztof Kotynia wrote:
> >
> > > >>  My wife and I saw a delightful French movie, "Amelie".  A Gnome was in
> > > the movie.  Does anyone know if the word is related to the word gnomon? 
> > > 
>
> Maybe it is.   I have just been to my reference library to consult my
> countryman Eric Partridge on this matter. In his "Origins: a Short
> Etymological Dictionary of the English Language" [1966 edition] his
> first entry for the word "gnome" is the 16th century Latin reference by
> Paracelsus (a German-speaking scholar born in Switzerland) and explains
> that his "gnomus" is perhaps from the Greek "gnome" meaning intelligent
> and adds that gnomes were reputedly intelligent.
>
> He continues. "The syllable "gnom-" occurs also in Greek "gnomon", a
> knower, hence a SUNDIAL's index (knower of time) and carpenter's square.
>
> Altogether he gives 8 uses of "gnome" and I have reproduced the relevant
> two, although all the others include the meaning "know".
>
> Hope this helps. Sounds convincing to me. (I have always thought of
> gnomes as first wily/wise. The diminutive size of a gnome is shared with
> a "dwarf" but a "gnome" is also "knowing".)
>
> Maria Brandl
> Mallacoota
> Australia
> -



-

Re: Hiatus :-(

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Tony Moss wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>I'm currenly upgrading my computer setup so no doubt there will be
> the usual period of anxiety and hand wringing while I get it all working
> smoothly again.  Apologies for any delayed responses in the meanwhile.
>
> Tony Moss
> -

Seems to be a VERY advanced upgrade, judging by the date of your message...
;-)
The good thing is that any delayed response will probably still arrive in
time.

Therry vs
51.5N 4.3E, and still in 2002, how boring!


-

Re: Happy birthday Peter APIAN!

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Thank you Reinhold!

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> In einer eMail vom 28.04.02 20:26:34 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit
> schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>
>
>
>> Dear Reinhold, thank you for this information.
>> Please advise if you hear of a translation to English or other.
>> Kind regards,
>> Thierry vs
>> 50.5N 4.3E
>>
>
> Dear Thierry,
>
> as far as I remember there are links in English language available in
> the Internet. I think I have seen them two or three years ago. Perhaps
> a direct contact with the editor of the really very beautiful book
> "Peter Apian",Karl Röttel will help? After Chris Taylor wrote to me...
>
> >That was a Julian date. In the current Grgorian calendar, I think his
> birthday would be April 7th. But I wish him a Happy Birthday,
> whenever.
> Regards
> Chris<
>
> ...I have asked Prof. Scheurer about the correct date and he handed my
> question over to Mr. Röttel.
> He answered:
> Es gibt gar kein Geburtsdatum von Peter Apian, also braucht man auch
> nicht
> viel umrechnen. Die genannten Geburtsdatums stammen alle aus
> irgendwelcher
> Literatur; die echte Quelle, auf die sich einst ein Nachfahre Apians
> berief,
> existiert nicht (bzw. heute nicht mehr).
> Which means, that the original list of sources got lost. So there
> would be no need to convert the Julian date :-)
>
> If you want to ask him directly: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Anyway: APIAN is a most interesting person with a great work! He had
> also been pretty clever in economical things and was pretty rich with
> a lot of different belongings. Only one generation after his decease
> everything was gone by the wind. But there are still Apian
> descendants. When I was in Landshut at Burg Trausnitz and asked for
> permission to stay a bit longer at the sundial, the guide asked me
> whether I would also be from the Apian - family as only a week before
> he had guided a group of them.
>
> If you get a good answer concerning English language links of Apian,
> please let me know. It might be useful for others.
>
> Best
> Reinhold
>
> * ** ***  * ** ***
> Reinhold R. Kriegler
> Lat: 53° 06' 53'' N
> Long: 8° 53' 54" E
>
> ttp://planetarium.hs-bremen.de/planetarium/astroinfo/sonnenuhren/kriegler/r2.htm






-

Re: Happy birthday Peter APIAN!

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Dear Reinhold,
thank you for this information.
Please advise if you hear of a translation to English or other.
Kind regards,
Thierry vs
50.5N 4.3E
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear friends,
today we are celebrating the birthday
of
Petrus Apianus,
alias Peter Bienewitz!
Peter Apian was
probably born in April 16, 1495 in Leisnig.
One of his sundials
can still be seen in Burg Trausnitz in Landshut, Germany. Another one at
the south wall of St. Martin's church in Landshut might also be from him.
His sundials are very well described in:
Günther
Knesch, Die Sonnenuhren von Sankt Martin, Landshut 1989; and
G. Knesch, C.
G. Holtzhausen, LICHT UND ZEIT, Sonnenuhren in Landshut, Landshut 1990.
A very beautiful
catalogue-book, Peter Apian, edited
by Karl Röttel, is still available:
2nd edition
by Polygon-Verlag 1997, ISBN 3-928671-12-X
Kurt Scheuerer
is providing excellent information with many interesting sub-links about
Peter Apian! Please have a look at: http://www.bingo-ev.de/~ks451/ingolsta/api-01.htm
Best regards
Reinhold Kriegler
* ** *** 
* ** ***
Reinhold R.
Kriegler
Lat: 53°
06' 53'' N
Long: 8°
53' 54" E

 



-

Re: Sloping Analemmatics

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

John,

if you have Quattro Pro, then it's not Microsoft but Corel (or for
former
versions Borland).
The Roger-Helmut spreadsheet is in Microsoft Excel format. It does open
in QP8,
although the graphics are not correctly handled. On the other hand,
Excel can
save the folder in different formats, among which the only QP one is
wq1,
corresponding to the very old version 1 under DOS! It does open in
QP8, but
as some functions of the Excel did not exist in QP1-DOS, they give
errors...

If it helps I can send you the result of this transformation (.wq1) or
the .wb3
file created by QP8.
Or else, if you tell me what version of QP you have, I can _try_ and
make you
another 'translation'.

Please be aware that such translations are usually far from perfect...!
You'll
probably have to fiddle a bit!
The simplest would be to find somebody around you who does have Excel...
which
is very common.

I take this opportunity to congratulate and thank both Roger and Helmut.

Thierry
50.5N 4.3E


John Schilke wrote:

>
> Anselmo wrote,
> >First of all, my congratulations to Helmut and Roger for the
> > spreadsheet... and for releasing it
> > as freeware in these mean ;-) times where everything is under patent laws.
>
>I heartily agree!  Thanks to them!
>
> One problem, though.  I have downloaded the program to disk.  I have
> both a strong interest in analemmatic dials and also Microsoft Quattro Pro
> on Windows 98, but apparently not the appropriate tool to open it up.  Can
> anyone help?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
> -

-

Re: Antwort: Re: Peter Kunath/becom ist au�er Haus.

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Dear Peter,

I hope you understand that I pointed to this auto-answer message just as
a new example of how nasty the new Reply-to systen of the list can be... 
My intention was certainly not to make any 'ad hominem' flaming.

Kind regards,
Thierry

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>
> Sorry friends,
> I'm using Lotus Notes and I excluded all "Sundial forum" mails to be
> answered automatically.
> There was a bug in Lotus, which we found now.
> Excuse me for that.
> With best regards
> Peter Kunath
>
>
> Thierry van
> Steenberghe An: 
> sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]Kopie:
> ve.com> Thema:  Re: Peter 
> Kunath/becom ist
> Gesendet von:   außer Haus.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> i-koeln.de
>
>
> 05.04.2002 10:57
> Bitte antworten an
> sundial
>
>
>
> Another nice example of what you get with the (in this case auto-) 'Reply
> to
> the list' system...
>
> tvs
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > Ich werde ab  04.04.2002 nicht im Büro sein. Ich kehre zurück am
> > 25.04.2002.
> >
> > Ich werde Ihre Nachricht nach meiner Rückkehr beantworten. Vertreter H.
> M.
> > Hoffmann, J. Broszio,  H. Tönnissen
> >
> > -
>
> -
>
> -


-

Re: Peter Kunath/becom ist au�er Haus.

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Another nice example of what you get with the (in this case auto-) 'Reply to
the list' system...

tvs


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>
> Ich werde ab  04.04.2002 nicht im Büro sein. Ich kehre zurück am
> 25.04.2002.
>
> Ich werde Ihre Nachricht nach meiner Rückkehr beantworten. Vertreter H. M.
> Hoffmann, J. Broszio,  H. Tönnissen
>
> -





-

Re: Right or Wrong

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Robert Terwilliger wrote:

>
> All,
>
> This is the sort of (Way off topic) reply that should properly be
> addressed to the sender only.
>
> But...
>
> J D S wrote:
>
> > these swords protruded out to the left of the rider and if two of these
> > gentlemen met in a narrow lane there would be a clash of swords
>
> I have not been keeping close track of this thread. Did we cover the
> excellent and venerable reason why the English drive on the left?
>
> Consider a (right-handed) knight - riding on the left side of a road -
> meeting an oncoming knight, who is also riding on his left side of the
> road.
>
> Should they draw their swords with their right arms, they will be in the
> best position to defend themselves, and to do battle with each other.
>
> Perhaps that's common knowledge?? - or at least a popular trivia
> question.
>
> Since we are so far off topic, let's take right-handed knights one step
> further.
>
> Staircases in medieval castles were usually built right into the walls
> and were in the form of spirals. A Master Mason building a castle would
> know to make his stair cases spiral clockwise as they ascended.
>
> Thus an attacker coming up the stairs would have to fight with his left
> arm while a defender retreating backwards up the stairs could fight with
> his right.
>

Also this arrangement makes it more comfortable for the gentleman coming
back home
from work or... from the bar with his sword hanging on the left side to
get up the
stairs without making too much noise hitting every stairs?
But then when he was going out (down), the situation would not be so
good: that's
maybe why they eventually invented double stairs?
Sorry, couldn't resist...

Now, to get on track again, maybe a sword could do as a gnomon?

--
__

Thierry vS
50.5N 4.3E
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__



>
> I hope this was not a waste of time. Medieval studies, chivalry, and
> castles are interests of mine.
>
> Bob
>
>

-

Re: Slopes and inclinations

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Anselmo Pérez Serrada wrote:

>  Hi everyone,Now that you're talking about drainage inclinations,
> I'd like to pose a lexical question: Which is the
> difference between 'inclination' and 'slope'? As far as I can see, I
> gather that in English both are interchangeable terms that denoteso
> the angle between some plane with the vertical line as also the angle
> made with the(horizontal) ground. You can only notice the difference
> through the context. In Spanish (and I suppose in other Latin
> languages) there is a difference, not alwaysobserved, between
> 'inclinacion' (=inclination?) and 'pendiente' (=slope?): the first
> oneis the angle between the plane and the vertical line and the second
> one is itscomplementary. That's why we talk about 'La torre inclinada
> de Pisa' (the leaning towerof Pisa) but not 'La torre pendiente de
> Pisa'. I am telling that because sometimes English documents are
> confusing and maybe itcould be useful to establish that difference in
> the standard technical gnomonic lingo: * Slope: Angle between a
> plane's maximum slope line and its horizontal projection.*
> Inclination: Angle between a plane's maximum slope line and a vertical
> line intersecting it. (Obviously, both are terms are linked by Slope =
> 90 deg - Inclination) I haven't found any reference to this in my
> English dictionaries, so maybe my proposal isa gramatical aberration:
> that's why I am making this question! Cheers, Anselmo

¡Hola, Anselmo!
Hello, everyone!

In French, which is another Latin language, we would not say that a
tower (or wall) is "incliné", but rather that it is "penché": the latter
word is is used with respect to either the vertical or the horizontal,
however. The example above are clearly wrt vertical, but we also say
that a frame "penche à droite" if its right side is lower on the
horizontal than its left side; also for the weighing instrument, we say
"faire pencher la balance".

The same with the word "incliné" or "inclinaison": it can be either wrt
vertical or horizontal, but you don't say "une tour inclinée" even
though you can say that "l'inclinaison de la tour" becomes dangerous.
"Inclinaison" is also used for the difference between the true North and
the magnetic one.
Actually, you can use "inclinaison" with respect to any reference
surface or line.

Yet another word is "la pente" (ES: "pendiente"), which is always wrt 
the horizontal.
That's the word you would use for draining the water off a surface: "une
pente de 1cm/m" is a minimum ;-)

Sorry for being off topic again, I should maybe have responded only to 
you Anselmo, but look, I did not write in Spanish...

Cheers!

--
__

Thierry vs
50.5N 4.3E
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__


-

Re: Can anyone remember a Sundial business in Taunton, Somerset (UK) ?

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 3-06-02
>
> Mac,
>
> I'll see what I have in my files.  If I have one, I'll send it to
> you.  If not, I'll take a photo in the next few weeks.
>
> Good to hear from you,
>
> Hal

I'd be happy to get a copy too, if you don't bother...
Thank you very much anyway.

Thierry vs
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__




-

Re: message from the listowner: N E W R E P L Y A D D R E S S

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

"fer j. de vries" wrote:

>
> Daniel et All,
>
> Let's help each other.
> I think Daniel's change is a good one.
> Message from the list will be answered to the list.
>
> For personal answers it is easy that the writer or replier add a signature
> to his/her message in which his/her e-mail address.
> This can be automated by a number of e-mail programs.
>
> Anyone who wants to react to the writer in person just has to click that
> e-mail addres or copy/paste the addres.
>
> See the signature below I always add.
>
> Best wishes, Fer.
>
> Fer J. de Vries
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.iae.nl/users/ferdv/
> Eindhoven, Netherlands
> lat.  51:30 N  long.  5:30 E
>
> -

Good idea, if everybody (e.g. proposing attachments or asking for personal
replies) would do it...
Note that for the e-mail address to be clickable, you need to prefix it with
_mailto:_  like below.
Kind regards,

Thierry vS
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__




-

Book

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

For those among you who read Italian or French, I would like to point
out a very interesting recent book I just found. It is about the story
of 'discovery of the shadow', viewed from a philosophical point of view:

The author is Roberto Casati (a French CNRS researcher)

the French version is:

"La découverte de l'ombre"
"De Platon à Gallilée, l'histoire d'une énigme qui a fasciné les
grands esprits de l'humanité"
Publisher: Albin Michel (Bibliothèque Albin Michel Idées) - 2002
http://www.albin-michel.fr
ISBN: 2-226-13075-6

while the (original) Italian version is:

"La scoperta dell'ombra"
Publisher: Arnaldo Mondadori Editore, 2000.

Please note that I have no connections whatsoever with the author nor
the pulishers.

Kind regards,
Thierry vs
50.5N 4.3E (currently -slowly- shortening long shadows!)


-

Re: On northern vs. southern dials

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Bonjour!
Je lis votre message ci-dessous avec retard, et si ça ne vous
ennuie pas, j'aimerais en effet recevoir une copie de l'article... Merci
déjà!
(Heureusement, à cette date-là, le 'Reply' fonctionnait
encore...;-) )
Cordialement,
Thierry van Steenberghe
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__
 
 
Jean-Paul Cornec wrote:

Anselmo The
sundial on the Place de la Concorde in Paris is a classical horizontal
sundial with the "Obelisque" as a vertical gnomon. Lines are now more or
less erased due a lack of maintenance. There was a scheme with a short
explanation in the june 1999 issue of "L'Astronomie". I can scan it and
send it to you or to any member of the list; just send me a mail. Regards Jean-Paul
Cornec
(...)  
Now that I remember, a kind of touristical question: in this month's issue
of the spanish version of Scientific American there is an articleby
D. Savoie about sundials an in it he says that in the Place de la Concorde
in Paris it was drawn a sundial (an Oughtred sundialI
suppose) based on the obelisk erected there. Does anybody know if the lines
are still drawn or were they erased? 


 
 





-

Re: message from the listowner: N E W R E P L Y A D D R E SS

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

"Th. Taudin-Chabot" wrote:

>
> Finally. Now the mechanism is equal to other mailinglists.

Yeah but the difference is that this list is not moderated...
Thierry vs

>
> A good user interface means that you have to do  (and think) the least in
> most of the cases. So if you want to react on a message just hit
> reply.
> Up till now I had to think: in this particular mailinglist I have to hit
> the reply all and delete one address.
> I actually asked this option in the first half year of the existence of
> this mailinglist. ;-)
>
> Thibaud Chabot
>
> -
> Thibaud Taudin-Chabot
> 52° 18' 19.85" North, 04° 51' 09.45" East, alt. -3.45 m
> home email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -




-

Re: message from the listowner: N E W R E P L Y A D D R E SS

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Hello Patrick,

Patrick Powers wrote:

> Message text written by INTERNET:sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de
> >Now, for a private comment, we have to copy the 'From' address, which is
> not so simple.
> And I'm afraid that we'll get lots of uninteresting messages like the
> 'please send me the picture' we see in every language, including the
> copy of possibly long previously exchanged messages...
>
> Any comments?<
>
> I would vote for the 'new ' situation.  A reply is now sent to the sender -
> usually  the Mail list.

...not "usually": in the new situation, the 'reply to' is _allways_ the list.

> If one needs to reply to the individual privately
> it is easy to remember that there is a need for a small change to the
> address. - after all one only needs to select 'Reply All', and delete those
> that do not apply..

this doesn't work anymore!
This very message is a 'Reply to all', and it looks as if you won't receive it
directly, but only through the list, as everybody else...
So it is not a "small change", and that's my point...

Actually, what you describe above is actually the former situation! ;-)
Thierry


> Patrick
> -








-

Re: message from the listowner: N E W R E P L Y A D D R E

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Hi, Richard!

Richard Mallett wrote:

>
> Reply to : Thierry
>
> >>  However, it seems to me that the former configuration was more
> flexible: one could indeed easlily either reply to the 'From' address only
> (which is justified for example when requesting the direct sending of a
> proposed attachment), or 'to all', including the list ('Sender'), possibly
> deleting part of the addresses. <<
>
> My offline reader (NAVCIS, which I can use for the Compuserve forums as
> well) does not allow me to do that.

Compuserve is my ISP since years, but I don't use the forums so much anymore,
because I find the Web is now good enough, or even better, at least for all
the commercial forums.
The result is that I have to confess that I don't even remember how NAVCIS
works... specially for handling the mail. A good thing it has is to allow you
to see what mail is there _before_ you reclaim it, so that you can delete any
spam and unexpectedly large or suspicious attached files...

I now prefer to use Netscape Messenger, which gets my mail from Compuserve and
of course also allows off-line reading and writing, with all the standard
functions of 'Reply', 'Reply to all', 'Forward', etc.
Both systems are operational on my machine, but I nearly only use Netscape.

Now with the new list configuration, you can't anymore use all the flexibility
anyway...

Thierry

> Richard.
>
>   E-mail from: Richard Mallett, 03-Mar-2002
> -




-

Re: message from the listowner: N E W R E P L Y A D D R E S S

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Hello Reinhold,
Thanks for your comment: I just cc it to the list for others to see
it.
Thierry
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In einer eMail vom
03.03.02 20:21:36 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

I agree with you!
I apreciated the former system!
Regards
Reinhold Kriegler
*
** ***  * ** ***
Reinhold
R. Kriegler
Lat:
53° 06' 53'' N
Long:
8° 53' 54" E

 
 



-

Re: message from the listowner: N E W R E P L Y A D D R E S S

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Daniel Roth wrote:

> Dear Subscribers!
>
> Please note that I changed the default reply-to address to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you press
> reply in your mail software the sundial mailing list will be addressed
> instead of the author of
> the mail to which you reply.
>
> Thank you for your contributions to this list!
>
> Regards -
>
> - Daniel Roth, sundial mailing list
>
> -

Dear Daniel,

We all know that no system is perfect... and you have probably good
reasons for the change?

However, it seems to me that the former configuration was more flexible:
one could indeed easlily either reply to the 'From' address only (which
is justified for example when requesting the direct sending of a 
proposed attachment), or 'to all', including the list ('Sender'), 
possibly deleting part of the addresses.

Now, for a private comment, we have to copy the 'From' address, which is
not so simple.
And I'm afraid that we'll get lots of uninteresting messages like the
'please send me the picture' we see in every language, including the 
copy of possibly long previously exchanged messages...

Any comments?

Thierry vs
50.5N 4.3E
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__


-

Re: Virus hoaxes

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Fernando Cabral wrote:

>
> Since I wrote a message about hoaxes I have been bugged
> [...]
>
> The only acceptable attitudes about virus and hoaxes are:
>
> 1) Delete them
> 2) If you want to know for sure if it is a real virus or a hoax,
>check some of the sites where this kind of information is
>logged. - as Donald Petrie mentioned,
> http://securityresponse.symantic.com
>is one of those sites.
> 3) If you think some of your friends might need help about virus
> and
>hoaxes educate them on a person-to-person basis. Eliminate
>any possibility that your teachings be taken as a "chain"
>or "pyramid" because if you don't your teachings themselves
> may
>become a "hoax".
> [...]

I agree totally with Fernando, except that the URL Don Petrie gave is
to be read http://securityresponse.symantec.com (tEc not tic) or 
http://www.sarc.com where you can not only get information, but also 
(freely) test your system and even get free removal tools for common 
current viruses.
Please note I have no relations with Symantec (besides using some of
their products). Other known anti-virus sites include:
Panda: http://www.panda.com
McAfee: http://www.mcafee.com

I might also mention that there are various sites (e.g. the above
mentionned) where you can subscribe to serious e-mail letters warning of
real new viruses (and sometimes of hoaxes too). That's a fourth
acceptable attitude, recommended to those interested in the subject. 
In any case, it's individual responsibility to protect one's computer
correctly, which seems indispensable if you use e-mail and the Internet,
and that means installing and using a good and up-to-date anti-virus
program.

In addition, this list is about sundials and closely related matters,
not about just anything, from political feelings to virus (genuine or
else): remaining within the broad focus of a list interest is also part 
of the 'Netiquette'... 

Kind regards to all,
Thierry vs
50.5 N 4.3 E

Re: Streak dials?

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Interesting...!

Now, let's guess:
- it has to be a sunny country, presumably, or else people are known to
be late...
- walls there seem soft enough (or fingers hard enough?)...
Who has a firt guess? ...There are countries like that aplenty, isn't it?

Another (maybe simpler) solution: why not ask your friend to go visit the
doctor again?

I'd certainly like to know... Please keep us informed?
Thierry
50.83N 4.33E


Edley wrote:

>
> Dear Membership,
>
> A friend tells me that he saw an article in a magazine ( at a
> doctor's office ) in which it told of a country that historically and
> still is using "streak dials".  He says a streak dial is a long
> streak, scratch or mark on a wall or other surface that is used to
> indicate the starting of an event, or the opening of a show or store.
>  As he says, one places their finger on the sunward end of the streak
>  and observes the shadow and streak to estimate how soon til the
> event occurs.  He says there are places where daily occuring events
> have actually had holes worn in the wall where many fingers have
> rested, something like the behavior of those waiting in line and
> checking their watches, or those waiting for an elevator repeatedly
> pushing the buttons.
>
> Have any of you heard of this behavior and type of dial?  Do any of
> you know what magazine this might have been in?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Edley McKnight
>
> [43.126N 123.327W]

Re: Astrolabes?

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

The shop of the ROG museum in Greenwich used to sell a cardboard/paper
astrolabe model...
If you can't go there, have a look at http://www.rog.nmm.ac.uk/

Thierry vs

Kevin Conod wrote:

>
> I'm looking for brass repleca astrolabes for an exhibit. I've got Norman
> Green's web site, but are there any other good sources for these?
>
> I'm also interested in paper and carboard replicas as well for
> workshops, etc. Please e-mail me if you have any details.
>
> --
> --Kevin Conod
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Daylight saving has just begun...

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

MMB wrote:

>
>
> Peter Mayer wrote:
>
> > In parts of Australia it is claimed that daylight savings tends to
> > bleach curtains (all that extra UV?) and confuses dairy cows!
>
> I have no comment on the bleached drapes but re those poor dairy cows,
> yes, they are confused by daylight savings. Why? Because farmers milk
> them an hour earlier. My brother is setting up King Island Long Life
> Milk and is dreading the complaints from thousands of dairy cows whose
> milk supply is already fluctuating as a response to the altered hours of
> milking :-)
>
> This is a true story.
>
> Re Fernando's comment about how DST plays havoc with health, I do know
> that having to rise that hour earlier in the dark and spend a longer
> time in chill air each morning was a very different start to staying in
> bed and rising when it was warmer. I guess more sensitive systems than
> mine could react badly.
>
> But those curtains???  H
>
> Maria Brandl
> Tasmania

Can cows read sundials? Of course they can!

Fernando once (recently) wrote "I just want to know if it is worthwhile for a
farmer
to pay attention to the moon cycle. [...]"

Then what about the sun cycle?
If you care for the fate of salads, why laugh at these poor cows, ...and at the
other poor beings to whom an hour change is imposed without knowing what effect
it can have... Children, for example, are often said to be rather obviously
perturbated for several days.
Now, jet lag specialists consider a day per hour change is a minimum rate for
recovery (for adults)...
So, we all do adapt: but saying it has no effects is maybe just too quick...

Thierry
Still on UTC+2 at 4.2E.

Re: Sundial Trick Photography

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

For those photographers who do not want to use digital tools, it's maybe
useful to remind the existence of special objectives used mainly for
architectural (exterior and interior) pictures, with the ability to
correct the perspective by sliding the lens in any direction.

One such objective is the PC Nikkor (28mm f/3.5) by Nikon, where PC
stands for Perspective Correction.
The focal length is short, and probably better adapted to buildings than
to details, unless the position of the sundial allows for getting
relatively close, but it can be useful for horizontal dials.

Another by Nikon is the PC Micro Nikkor (85mm f/2.8), which is maybe 
better adapted to the sundials task.

A comparison of digital vs optical correction could be interesting too?

Thierry vs


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Willy, Frans, et.al.,
>
> Willy suggested:
>
> > ... Photograph a drawing of a vertical sundial
> >and compare the drawing with the corrected photo.
>  .
>
> Might I suggest a test photo of a Cartesian grid
> (or a checkers-, or chess-, board?  The analysis
> would then be simpler and more generalized.
>
> Also, this subject is covered in textbooks on use
> of aerial photography for mapmaking.  In English,
> the topic is called 'photo-rectification'.
>
> Sciagraphically,
> Bill Maddux
> > Frans,
> >

Re: Well, could anyone help getting start?

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Bom dia, Rui!

In addition to the excellent links that Bob sent you, I'd like to point out
also the British Sundial Society: http://www.sundialsoc.org.uk/ although
it's certainly included in Daniel Roth's Sundial Links.

All the best,
Thierry
Bruxelles / Belgium

Robert Terwilliger wrote:

>
> Hi Rui,
>
> Welcome to the Sundial Mailing List, and the fascinating world of
> sundials.
>
> Here are some places to start.
>
> The North American Sundial Society:
> http://sundials.org
>
> See the FAQ page for some suggestions on books and answers to the other
> questions you asked. Also browse the Links page
>
> Sundials on the Internet:
> http://www.sundials.co.uk/index.htm
>
> Daniel Roth's Sundial Links:
> http://www.infraroth.de/slinks.html
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bob Terwilliger
>
> Rui Farinha wrote:
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > First of all: Sorry my awful english!
> >
> > I found yesterday this mailing list and i've just subscribe it.
> >[...]

Re: travels and sundials

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

François Blateyron wrote:

>
> Dear all
>
> 1) I will attend a congress near London in June and I will have one or two
> days off to make tourism downtown. Is there a list of sundials of London
> somewhere on the web, or could someone give me some targets?
>
> 2) In July (9th to 24th), I will also travel between San Francisco and Los
> Angeles (partly for holidays, partly for business). Again, are there some
> "must see" sundials in the area? I will drive from the San Francisco Bay
> (SF, Fremont, Napa, San Jose...), to Monterey-Carmel, to Santa Barbara, LA,
> and back to SF via Yosemite Park.
>
> For both destinations, I will be happy to receive locations of interesting
> sundials, and perhaps to plan to meet some of you "physically".
>
> Many Thanks
>
> François Blateyron ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
> www.cadrans-solaires.org

Bonjour François!

For London and a number of other places, there is a page on sundial trails on
the 'Sundials on the Internet' site, http://www.sundials.co.uk
Then of course, for the UK (including London!), there is the printed BSS
Registry: have a look at http://www.sundialsoc.org.uk

For the USA, you could check the NASS site, which I think includes a searchable
Registry. The address is http://sundials.org

Have a nice time!

Thierry
Bruxelles / Belgium

[Fwd: [Fwd: Re: Moore sundials]]

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Well, sorry to insist, but I did not see my message on the list (nor any
other since about a week? I hope the list server was not upset by my
earlier messages?).
So a last try, this time whithout any attached pictures...
Thierry

 Original Message 
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Moore sundials]
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 19:19:46 +0200
From: Thierry van Steenberghe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: *Sundial List 

OK, I think my message below did not make it through the list manager...
Maybe because of the five attached pictures? Let me try again with only
one picture, as I think I remember somebody mentioned this was the 
trick. (Sorry for those few who already received this!)
Thierry

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: Moore sundials
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:30:09 +0200
From: Thierry van Steenberghe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: *Sundial List 
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED],*Chris Lusby Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,*Mario Arnaldi
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,*Thibaud Taudin-Chabot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,*Woody
Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Hello,

Willy Leenders wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> The Henry Moore sundial in Belgium is still there.
> It's situated at the IBM  Education Centre,  Chaussée de Bruxelles, 135, 
> B-1310 La Hulpe
> La Hulpe is situated 20 km south-east of Brussels.
> Most of the staff of the Education Centre is out of touch of this sundial, at 
> best they know that
> there is a sculpture of Henry Moore.
> This sundial was not originally made for the Education Centre. It's not clear 
> from where it came.
> Eric Daled, editor-in-chief of 'Zonnetijdingen', the journal of 
> 'Zonnewijzerkring Vlaanderen' (the
> Flemmish Sundial Association) made a photograph of the sundial. It is 
> published in edition 2001/1 of
> the journal.
>
> In the book "With Henry Moore. The artist at work" (Sidgwick & Jackson, 
> London, 1978) you can see
> two photographs of Moore's sundial sculpture 'Working Model for Sundial', 
> dated 1965, situated in
> the garden of Moore's home, Hoglands, at Much Hadham in Hertfordshire.
> One photograph is a view from inside the house, the other one is a view with 
> Hoglands in the
> background.
> The photographs are made in 1977.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Willy
>
> =
> Willy Leenders
> Kloosterlaan 60
> B 3500 Hasselt
> Belgium
> 50.893722 N  5.34986 E
> Tel. (00)(#)(0)11 72 04 47
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> =

Having read the message of Woody Sullivan, and as the weather today was
as nice as usual here (referring
to the last three days...), I went this afternoon to La Hulpe, where IBM
have their International
Education Center (IEC).
Asking at the reception desk, I was allowed to go in the patio where the
sundial indeed is, and I
thankfully went to admire and take some pictures.

Nobody at IBM-IEC can ignore it, in my opinion, as it is very visible,
and it is featured on the cover
picture of a small flyer that IBM'ers on training there receive, in
addition to appear on the map of
premises as a recognizable beacon. (I still have to scan that and then
will send the scan to anybody
interested, hoping that this won't hurt IBM's copyright...)
However, as Willy Leenders says, the people at the reception don't seem
to know much about the piece.
They knew that there is the sundial, but don't know about its
history/origin nor even its author.

The (equatorial) sundial is about 4-5m high, formed by two
circular/crescent beams of triangular
cross-section, and the gnomon is a cylindrical bar about 3cm thick. The
material seems to be patinated
bronze indeed, not unusual for an outdoor sculpture (the lower faces are
bright brown, while the upper
faces are matte dark grey). The scale is divided in 5min increments.
I could not find any signature or other indices of the origin of the
sundial.

I had not yet the time to calculate, but when I took the pictures it was
about 14:45, and the dial
indicated 12:40, which seems about OK as we are here on WET/DST (+2).

As a picture is worth..., I send herewith a few of the pictures I could
take thanks to a borrowed
digital camera, reduced in size for the sake of bandwidth.

By the way, wouldn't it be nice if those who mentioned pictures in books
could have them scanned and
sent to the list?

Best regards to all,
Thierry

--
__

Thierry van Steenberghe
Bruxelles / Belgium
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__

Re: Last Thought on Roman numerals?

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Mike Cowham wrote:

> [...]
>   If we are going to
> modernise them, then we should really use Arabic numerals.
>
> Alternatively, how about a base 2 system??? 1,10,11,100... 1010,
> 1011 & 1100.  These would balance fairly well if we include the leading
> zeros and make the 0s wide like letter O - (but not in all fonts).

I remember to have seen a picture of such a digital dial somewhere recently,
but I can't find it again just now...

Thierry
Bruxelles / Belgium

Re: ??? Roman numerals

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Kevin Conod wrote:

>
> These are all rather elaborate explanations . . . couldn't just be that
> "" was used instead of "IV" simply because it is so easy to confuse "IV"
> with "VI"?

In this case, what about IX and XI?

> After all, in the heyday of the sundial as a timepiece, most of
> the world was illiterate.

But certainly not the dial makers... And probably not their target
public
either?

>
> Something to think about...

Indeed: could the illiterate read the hour from a dial?
They could certainly notice/know that the shadow was moving, but if
unable to
read the numbers, what meaning does have the shadow on VIII or IX?

>
> --Kevin Conod
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thierry
Bruxelles / Belgium

Re: Roman numerals

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Mike Cowham wrote:

>
> My father, an old clock man, used to tell me that the  was used in
> place of IV because if not, it did not balance with VIII on the opposite
> side of the dial.  Try it, and I think that you will agree that it looks
> strange and unbalanced.  Just look how symmetrical a clock face is.

I had heard of this explanation too, but if it works for VIII, , it
doesn't for some other vertically symetric pairs:
I and XI ??
II and X ok
III and IX   ok
 and VIIIok
V and VII??

>
> There may be other reasons too, but this one is OK for me.
>
> Regards,
> Mike Cowham.
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cambridge, UK.

Thierry
Bruxelles / Belgium

Re: ??? - OFF TOPIC

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Steve Lelievre wrote:

> This is off-topic, but why are they called Arabic numerals? Presumably
> because the system of positional significance is Arabic in origin?

The system of decimal positional numeration is not Arabic in origin: for
centuries, the Arabo-islamic scientists have always stated that this system was
of Indian origin (which by the way proves that they were real open-minded
scientists). The (east) Arabic mathematicians called these numerals 'arquam al
hindi' (indian numerals).
They are plenty of references to show this.

The so-called Arabic numerals had actually been used long by these (west)
Arabic scientists (North Africa, Spain), and were introduced in the Western
world by them by the end of the Xth century: that's the reason why they have
been called 'Arabic'.


> Also, real Arabic digits look nothing like the digits in the West (see
> attached for 0 to 9, Arabic style). Why and when did the differences arise?

Well... they are not 'that' different either: just turn 2 and 3, or 7 for
example.
The differences are the result of an evolution which essentially took place
during the XIIth century, it seems.

Thierry
Bruxelles / Belgium

Re: ??? Roman numerals

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Dear all,

Tony Moss wrote:

>
> Fellow Shadow Watchers,
>
>[...]   XII, XI, X, IX and I, II. III,
> and  read locate satifactorily in either direction but V, VI and VII
> have 'V' elements which radiate outwards and benefit from the extra space
> at the outer serif circle.  Placed the other way with tops towards the
> centre of the dial makes for a visually 'tight' situation - especially in
> smaller dials with less space to spare.
>
> I just wondered if anyone else would wish to share their thoughts on the
> subject as it seems that the 'traditional' orientation is the reverse of
> my personal preference.
>
> Tony Moss

I'd like to ask a question orientated slightly differently, 
although it might be a silly FAQ: does it exist any explanation why on
time measuring instruments (sundials as well as clocks) the number 4 is 
written as  instead of the usual IV used for dates, chapters, and 
most every other roman numbers?

I have made up an explanation for myself, but I'd be curious of other
and
maybe better explanations...

My 'theory' is that for aestehics, symmetry is often considered the
basic way to go. On a (classical) clock dial there are 12 hours, and 
using  instead of IV allows to have three similar groups of four:
- one with only I's: I, II, III, 
- one containing V's i: V, VI, VII, VIII
- one containing X's: IX, X, XI, XII
whereas the use of IV would break this balance...

Any other explanation? Did I miss something?


Thierry
Bruxelles / Belgium

Re: dials in Germany

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Hi, Steve

Steve Irick wrote:

> I am planning to visit Germany for a couple of weeks in mid August and
> thought I would ask for suggestions about sundials to see.  I will be in
> the cites of Berlin and Frankfurt.  My companion is fluent in the German
> language and so I would have no trouble finding them.  Also, somewhere
> within an hours drive of Frankfurt I will strike out on my own
> communicating with a wink, a smile and a handshake and thought it would add
> to the adventure to look for some of these sites.  I don't believe I will
> get too lost, I have a good idea where the dialist hang out.
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve I

For Berlin, I have a very nice site in my bookmarks dated 9/1999: I did not
return since, but you could give it a try: it's
http://www.be.schule.de/schulen/wfs/pages/sundials/BerlinSundials.html

Have a nice time,

Thierry,
Bruxelles (BE)

Re: Anyone know this book?

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Hello there,

I was looking for this book which was announced some time ago on an
insert in the BSS Bulletin by a specialised bookshop, and I had very 
recently the opportunity to visit them in Greenwich (London): they had 
not yet received it and they seemed to know that it was actually not yet
published. Patience and hopes!

Thierry
Bruxelles (Belgium)


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>
> Hi Mac,
>
>The availability of the book, Sundials: An Illustrated History of Portable
> Dials by Hestor Higton was announced in the September issue of the Compendium
> on page 31 with a brief synopsis.
>
>I'd had the book on order since November from Amazon.co.uk so maybe I will
> soon be receiving it.
>
> Ken Clark
> Elizabethtown, PA

Re: Time Zones

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

"fer j. de vries" wrote:

>
> Time Zone Lovers,
>
> In Europe also Portugal has the same time zone as the British have.
> As is showed on the Web site, recommended in the mail by Thierry van
> Steenberghe, this is called WET and in summer it is WEST
>
> For France, Germany, The Netherlands and many more countries this Web site
> mention as name CET and CEST, that is GMT + 1 and GMT + 2 and not WET and
> WEST as Thierry wrote.

OOps! Sorry!
Thanks for correcting, Fer!

>
> So we also have a name confusion.
>
> In our language ( Dutch ) we speak about MET and MEZT, that means Middel
> Europese Tijd and Middel Europese Zomer Tijd.
>
> Fer.
>
> Fer J. de Vries
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.iae.nl/users/ferdv/
> Eindhoven, Netherlands
> lat.  51:30 N  long.  5:30 E
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Thierry van Steenberghe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: harriet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: sundial mailing list 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Time Zones
>
> > Dear Harriet,
> >
> > In addition to the pointers you've already received, you might also like
> to
> > have a look at http://www.timeanddate.com/time/abbreviations.html
> >
> > You are right to write "Do countries in Europe apart from France adhere to
> the
> > 'correct' zone?" with quotes around the word 'correct'...
> > Actually, most Western European Union countries are on WET/WEST, which is
> 1 (or
> > 2, when DST is switched on) hours in advance of GMT. This is fairly nice
> when
> > travelling thorough the continent!
> > However, I think Greece might be on the next zone, 2 (or 3) hours in
> advance.
> > So it's not France who distinguishes from the rest, but ...UK who are the
> sole
> > to insist on 'their' GMT time (nowadays called UT).
> > (I should check for Ireland, but I'm pretty sure they are on WET/WEST
> too.)
> > And a trick: just get an airline timetable and look for the destinations
> of
> > interest.
> >
> > As for DST, it's now a EC law or is it just a recommendation? In any case
> there
> > is a text about it in the legislative database of the EC, fixing the dates
> of
> > ON and OFF. (Check the validity dates of your airline timetable!).
> >
> > Thierry
> > 50°50'N, 4°20'E
> > --
> > __
> >
> > Thierry van Steenberghe
> > Bruxelles / Belgium
> > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > __
> >
> > harriet wrote:
> >
> > > [...]

Re: Time Zones

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Steve Lelievre wrote:

>
> Ireland is on the same timezone at the UK, and so is Portugal. It seems to
> me that Spain and France should be the same too, but for their close ties
> with the rest of the European mainland. They are both mostly within 7.5° of
> the Greenwich meridian.
>
> Anyway, timezones don't solve the whole problem. When I lived in England I
> did a lot of business with Finland (+2 hours), and France and Germany (+1).
> It was difficult to contact colleagues when we needed to. Yes, this was due
> to different timezones, but also different office hours. England worked
> 9-17.30 local with lunch from 12.30 - 13.30, Finland worked 7.30-16.00 local
> with lunch from 11.30 to 12.30, France and Germany something else again.
> Germany was extra complicated because the factory staff worked different
> hours to the operations staff, so there were two sets of times to remember.
>
> I would happily put the whole of the EU on a single time zone, but only if
> there are also common start, finish and break times!
>

Still, it's more easy to find somebody in UK or Finland than in the US, from
Europe, that is, don't you think? I remember when I was in a company here in
Brussels, how difficult it was to call equipment providers in the US.

Now, fortunately, we have asynchronous communications (e-mail, to be less
pedantic): it's maybe not panacea, but it solves at least the TZ, working hours
and breaks problems...

Re: Time Zones

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Just to complete my previous reply, Harriet: I checked that UK is not the
only EU country to be on UTC.
Ireland is too indeed, and as a matter of fact Portugal and Iceland (not
member of the EU, yet) also use UTC.
My remark about UK sole country attached to their good old GMT was thus out
of place: sorry, UK! ;-)

And on the other side, I confirm that Greece is at UTC+2, but so is
Finland. Many of the former Eastern European countries are now candidates
to join the EU, wich will bring in a slew of new UTC+2 countries.

Best regards,
Thierry


harriet wrote:

>
> Dear Dialists
>
> Many thanks for the vast amounts of  information about time zones. That
> will keep me quiet for a bit!
>
> Harriet James

Re: Time Zones

[Thierry van Steenberghe]

Dear Harriet,

In addition to the pointers you've already received, you might also like to
have a look at http://www.timeanddate.com/time/abbreviations.html

You are right to write "Do countries in Europe apart from France adhere to the
'correct' zone?" with quotes around the word 'correct'...
Actually, most Western European Union countries are on WET/WEST, which is 1 (or
2, when DST is switched on) hours in advance of GMT. This is fairly nice when
travelling thorough the continent!
However, I think Greece might be on the next zone, 2 (or 3) hours in advance.
So it's not France who distinguishes from the rest, but ...UK who are the sole
to insist on 'their' GMT time (nowadays called UT).
(I should check for Ireland, but I'm pretty sure they are on WET/WEST too.)
And a trick: just get an airline timetable and look for the destinations of
interest.

As for DST, it's now a EC law or is it just a recommendation? In any case there
is a text about it in the legislative database of the EC, fixing the dates of
ON and OFF. (Check the validity dates of your airline timetable!).

Thierry
50°50'N, 4°20'E
--
__

Thierry van Steenberghe
Bruxelles / Belgium
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__

harriet wrote:

>
> Dear All,
>
> Can anyone clarify American and European time zones for me? I am trying
> to write instructions for setting up a dial which can be used in any
> location.
>
> The NASS dialist's companion gives the meridians for US time zones
> as: Atlantic 60° W
>Eastern  75° W
>Central  90°W
>Mountain 105° W
>Pacific 120°W
>
> Do all Americans adhere to these time zones, or are some like the French
> who
> like to be one hour ahead of GMT even though France lies within 7.5° of the
> Greenwich
> Meridian?
>
> If I set up a dial in say Pittsburg, Pennsylvania (longitude 80° W) which
> tells local solar time,
> ignoring corrections for the Equation of Time, am I correct in saying that
> it will run 20 minutes slow to Eastern Standard Time as it is 5° west of
> the Eastern time meridian?
>
> Do countries in Europe apart from France adhere to the 'correct' zone?
> What about daylight saving in the US and Europe?
>
> Any help gratefully received.
>
> Harriet James