Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[Rob]

When you clearly don't understand how the Windows clipboard works, and
what functions are available both in Word and in Seamonkey to influence
what will be done, why do you go on accusing Microsoft of malversations?

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to first study the matter?
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Re: Accentuated characters

[Rob]

Ray_Net  wrote:
> accentuated characters looks like they are created in utf8 and read in 
> iso 
> when SM receive a mail crated by live-mail using a gmail account.
>
> Mail very difficult to read ...BUT .
>
> If a do a "forward" or a "Edit as new message" all accentuated 
> characters are OK
>
> How is it possible to have a perfect text when we do a "forward" or an 
> "Edit msg as new" and having an horrible renderning when reading the 
> received mail.
> Example:
>
> D'après les échos de chez l'une ou l'autre guide
>
> instead of :
> D'après les échos de chez l'une ou l'autre guide

View -> Character encoding -> auto detect -> universal.

When it cannot detect a character set, in the same menu choose the
correct character set (e.g. UTF8).
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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[Philip Taylor]

 wrote:

> When you clearly don't understand how the Windows clipboard works, and
> what functions are available both in Word and in Seamonkey to influence
> what will be done, why do you go on accusing Microsoft of malversations?

In the absence of any context, it is unclear to whom "you" refers.
Whilst I whole-heartedly approve of your trimming (an example that I
sincerely wish others would emulate), I do feel that you have over-done
it on this occasion.

But to return to the matter under debate :  When you refer to "functions
available in Word" and "functions available in Seamonkey", it is unclear
to what functions you refer.  Word offers "Copy" and Seamonkey offers
"Paste" and "Paste without formatting".  Only the third of these appears
to offer any hope of ameliorating the situation, but that would (by
definition) lose the very thing that the orginal enquirer seeks to
retain.  So could you explain, perhaps by example, exactly to which
features of Word and Seamonkey you refer ?

Philip Taylor
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Re: Why no thumb in vertical scroll bar?

[Daniel]

fm wrote:

A thumb is useful in synching text in long files with TextWrangler (edit HTML 
in TW; read in SM). I miss it!


fm, I guess you are talking here about using finger jesturs on a modern 
'phone, right??


Sorry, I just use my 'phone for 'phone calls, so don't know why or why not!

--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:21.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/21.0 SeaMonkey/2.18 Build identifier: 20130418192405


or

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:23.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.20 Build identifier: 20130709211044

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Re: So long Growl, we hardly new ya

[Chris Ilias]

On 2013-08-05 1:20 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2013-08-03 13:18 (GMT-0400) Chris Ilias composed:


I'm not sure what you're referring to by "dumb down"


It means removing previously included functionality, which generally
means fewer choices that a user can make in a default installation;
simplification at the expense of power and flexibility absent
complicating an installation via extensions, or needing to substitute
other tools. Fewer choices generally means easier to use for the less
well mentally endowed (aka dumber, and cutting _down_ feature count).


Felix, I set replies to my post to go to my email address because this 
discussion is not SeaMonkey support. It's not even about SeaMonkey. :)


If you can't respect the forum rules, I have no problem stepping in.

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Newsgroup moderator
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Re: SM19 Email Problems

[Daniel]

Brooke Clarke wrote:

Hi:

The list on the left now has 1-1/2 or 2 line spacing instead of the
prior single line spacing.
How to get single line spacing?

The text of the email in the lower right window is in very fine print.
How to enlarge the font?


Brooke, as I understand it, the size of the text in the message pane 
(where you're reading this) is initially determined by the writer, 
however you can then magnify this text by changing your View->Zoom level


I know you can change the size of the fonts in the other panes of the 
screen but I don't know how ... maybe a system change or changing one of 
SM's prefs, maybe. Hopefully someone else will drop by with this info.


--
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User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:21.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/21.0 SeaMonkey/2.18 Build identifier: 20130418192405


or

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:23.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.20 Build identifier: 20130709211044

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Re: SM19 Email Problems

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi:

PLEASE HELP.  The font in the email window is now so small that it can no 
longer be read.
The only way I can read email is by doing a print preview.
An email directly to me would be good since it's very hard to real all of the 
digest.
bro...@pacific.net

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Re: SM19 Email Problems

[Philip Taylor]

Ctrl +
Repeat until font large enough to be read.

Or go back to 2.17.1, as many have been forced to do.

Philip Taylor

Brooke Clarke wrote:
> Hi:
> 
> PLEASE HELP.  The font in the email window is now so small that it can
> no longer be read.
> The only way I can read email is by doing a print preview.
> An email directly to me would be good since it's very hard to real all
> of the digest.
> bro...@pacific.net
> 
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Re: SM19 Email Problems

[Ed Mullen]

Brooke Clarke wrote:

Hi:

PLEASE HELP.  The font in the email window is now so small that it can
no longer be read.
The only way I can read email is by doing a print preview.
An email directly to me would be good since it's very hard to real all
of the digest.
bro...@pacific.net



See my reply to Daniel in your original post.

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Re: SM19 Email Problems

[Ed Mullen]

Daniel wrote:

Brooke Clarke wrote:

Hi:

The list on the left now has 1-1/2 or 2 line spacing instead of the
prior single line spacing.
How to get single line spacing?

The text of the email in the lower right window is in very fine print.
How to enlarge the font?


Brooke, as I understand it, the size of the text in the message pane
(where you're reading this) is initially determined by the writer,
however you can then magnify this text by changing your View->Zoom level

I know you can change the size of the fonts in the other panes of the
screen but I don't know how ... maybe a system change or changing one of
SM's prefs, maybe. Hopefully someone else will drop by with this info.



I think this is it.  In the userChrome.css file in the profile's chrome 
folder put:


treechildren {
  font-size: 100% !important;
  line-height: 100% !important;
}

You could alternately try adjusting the units by using "pt" as in:

treechildren {
  font-size: 12pt !important;
  line-height: 1pt !important;
}

Adjust to your liking.



--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Only in America are there handicap parking places in front of a skating 
rink.

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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[hawker]

On 8/2/2013 9:02 PM, Iceman wrote:

On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:14:08 -0400, hawker wrote in message
:


I keep getting complaints from those who use Outlook that when I cut and
paste from MS Word all they get is Greek letters and/or gibberish with
MS font inserts and such.  I'm only cutting and pasting standard text.

It looks fine for all other mail clients.  Any ideas what causes this or
if there is something I can do about it? Dumping on Outlook is not an
answer. Folks are going to use it, no matter what we think. If it looks
fine in SM it should look fine in Outlook.


How about just mailing the Word document as an attachment? You can put it
in a zipfile first, to reduce size.



Well what I often have to do for work is discuss something going on, and 
there may be some text or data from a word document - say a 
specification that I want to past in. Often it has formatting, bold, 
number list etc that I want to preserve so copying to text first means I 
have to re-apply all the formatting.  Attaching a snipped of word is not 
very clean.

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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[hawker]

On 8/2/2013 8:14 PM, MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 02/08/2013 18:28, Paul B. Gallagher told the world:

hawker wrote:


No I have a problem that the way SeaMonkey takes clipboard data from
an MS product does not work with all e-mail clients and that SeaMonkey
WYSIWYG is not working correctly under the hood. I'm sure if I went
from Word to Outlook directly it would work fine. It is SeaMonkey
that seems to mangle it. This is a SeaMonkey issue not MS. My guess
is it is a Clipboard parsing problem in SeaMonkey.


Probably not. SeaMonkey is probably being too obedient and capturing all
the garbage codes Word supplies instead of stripping them out. For
example, I tried pasting one sentence from a Word 2010 document into an
HTML composition window in SeaMonkey, and I got this:


  The body always operates as an integrated
mechanism, and “forms”
behavioral or motor acts in strict compliance with the conditions
in which it
is placed.
followed by 423 more lines of code containing 20,044 characters
(including spaces). Yes, that's 20 thousand characters, not 20!

The sentence itself was well-formed; the only change was that the curly
quotes were rendered as HTML character entities, which is not a problem.




I confirm this behavior. I started with a *blank* Word document. I typed
*one* word in it, with default formatting. I copied that word and pasted
it into a new Seamonkey HTML-formatted message. Then I saved the message
and looked at the source code.

Surprise, surprise: that one word turned into 20 kb of garbage. And it's
easy to tell that the garbage originated in Word, because, well, things
like  elements (nonstandard), classes named "Mso"-something (created
by Word) and conditional comments (another nonstandard, Microsoft-only
technology)

What I think is happening...

1. Word places a lot of proprietary garbage on the clipboard yet tags it
as "HTML"
2. Thunderbird/Seamonkey believes the tag and accepts the paste "as is."
3. It probably tweaks the content a little in order to mesh with the
rest of the HTML-formatted message.
4. Most non-MS mail clients ignore the proprietary garbage and render
the message the same as the Seamonkey-user sender intended.
5. Outlook, however, attempts to interpret those remains of the
proprietary garbage and fails horribly

The only way I see for fixing it from the Mozilla end would be to add
code for detecting MS proprietary garbage in the clipboard and run it
through a sanitizer (something like HTMLtidy with the -word2000 option)
to clean it up.



Thank you for being the first person to fully explain what is going on 
in a way I can understand.
I'm still not sure what my best solution is but now I better understand 
the issue.


What I often have to do for work is discuss something going on in an 
e-mail, and there may be some text or data from a word document - say a 
specification or chart that I want to past in. Often it has formatting, 
bold, number list etc that I want to preserve so copying to text first 
means I have to re-apply all the formatting.


I wonder if there are any other formatted programs that can clean things 
up as you suggest without loosing the formating.




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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[BIll Spikowski]

hawker wrote:
> On 8/2/2013 8:14 PM, MCBastos wrote:
>> Interviewed by CNN on 02/08/2013 18:28, Paul B. Gallagher told the world:
>>> hawker wrote:
>>>
 No I have a problem that the way SeaMonkey takes clipboard data from
 an MS product does not work with all e-mail clients and that SeaMonkey
 WYSIWYG is not working correctly under the hood. I'm sure if I went
 from Word to Outlook directly it would work fine. It is SeaMonkey
 that seems to mangle it. This is a SeaMonkey issue not MS. My guess
 is it is a Clipboard parsing problem in SeaMonkey.
>>>
>>> Probably not. SeaMonkey is probably being too obedient and capturing all
>>> the garbage codes Word supplies instead of stripping them out. For
>>> example, I tried pasting one sentence from a Word 2010 document into an
>>> HTML composition window in SeaMonkey, and I got this:
>>>
>>> 
>>>   The body always operates as an integrated
>>> mechanism, and “forms”
>>> behavioral or motor acts in strict compliance with the conditions
>>> in which it
>>> is placed.
>>> followed by 423 more lines of code containing 20,044 characters
>>> (including spaces). Yes, that's 20 thousand characters, not 20!
>>>
>>> The sentence itself was well-formed; the only change was that the curly
>>> quotes were rendered as HTML character entities, which is not a problem.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I confirm this behavior. I started with a *blank* Word document. I typed
>> *one* word in it, with default formatting. I copied that word and pasted
>> it into a new Seamonkey HTML-formatted message. Then I saved the message
>> and looked at the source code.
>>
>> Surprise, surprise: that one word turned into 20 kb of garbage. And it's
>> easy to tell that the garbage originated in Word, because, well, things
>> like  elements (nonstandard), classes named "Mso"-something (created
>> by Word) and conditional comments (another nonstandard, Microsoft-only
>> technology)
>>
>> What I think is happening...
>>
>> 1. Word places a lot of proprietary garbage on the clipboard yet tags it
>> as "HTML"
>> 2. Thunderbird/Seamonkey believes the tag and accepts the paste "as is."
>> 3. It probably tweaks the content a little in order to mesh with the
>> rest of the HTML-formatted message.
>> 4. Most non-MS mail clients ignore the proprietary garbage and render
>> the message the same as the Seamonkey-user sender intended.
>> 5. Outlook, however, attempts to interpret those remains of the
>> proprietary garbage and fails horribly
>>
>> The only way I see for fixing it from the Mozilla end would be to add
>> code for detecting MS proprietary garbage in the clipboard and run it
>> through a sanitizer (something like HTMLtidy with the -word2000 option)
>> to clean it up.
>>
> 
> Thank you for being the first person to fully explain what is going on 
> in a way I can understand.
> I'm still not sure what my best solution is but now I better understand 
> the issue.
> 
> What I often have to do for work is discuss something going on in an 
> e-mail, and there may be some text or data from a word document - say a 
> specification or chart that I want to past in. Often it has formatting, 
> bold, number list etc that I want to preserve so copying to text first 
> means I have to re-apply all the formatting.
> 
> I wonder if there are any other formatted programs that can clean things 
> up as you suggest without loosing the formating.


I've been assuming that you need to preserve the editability of what
you pull from Word. If not, why not just attach a screenshot? Or use
screen capture software like Snagit: http://www.techsmith.com/snagit.html

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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[hawker]

On 8/5/2013 12:37 PM, BIll Spikowski wrote:

hawker wrote:

On 8/2/2013 8:14 PM, MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 02/08/2013 18:28, Paul B. Gallagher told the world:

hawker wrote:


No I have a problem that the way SeaMonkey takes clipboard data from
an MS product does not work with all e-mail clients and that SeaMonkey
WYSIWYG is not working correctly under the hood. I'm sure if I went
from Word to Outlook directly it would work fine. It is SeaMonkey
that seems to mangle it. This is a SeaMonkey issue not MS. My guess
is it is a Clipboard parsing problem in SeaMonkey.


Probably not. SeaMonkey is probably being too obedient and capturing all
the garbage codes Word supplies instead of stripping them out. For
example, I tried pasting one sentence from a Word 2010 document into an
HTML composition window in SeaMonkey, and I got this:


   The body always operates as an integrated
 mechanism, and “forms”
 behavioral or motor acts in strict compliance with the conditions
 in which it
 is placed.
followed by 423 more lines of code containing 20,044 characters
(including spaces). Yes, that's 20 thousand characters, not 20!

The sentence itself was well-formed; the only change was that the curly
quotes were rendered as HTML character entities, which is not a problem.




I confirm this behavior. I started with a *blank* Word document. I typed
*one* word in it, with default formatting. I copied that word and pasted
it into a new Seamonkey HTML-formatted message. Then I saved the message
and looked at the source code.

Surprise, surprise: that one word turned into 20 kb of garbage. And it's
easy to tell that the garbage originated in Word, because, well, things
like  elements (nonstandard), classes named "Mso"-something (created
by Word) and conditional comments (another nonstandard, Microsoft-only
technology)

What I think is happening...

1. Word places a lot of proprietary garbage on the clipboard yet tags it
as "HTML"
2. Thunderbird/Seamonkey believes the tag and accepts the paste "as is."
3. It probably tweaks the content a little in order to mesh with the
rest of the HTML-formatted message.
4. Most non-MS mail clients ignore the proprietary garbage and render
the message the same as the Seamonkey-user sender intended.
5. Outlook, however, attempts to interpret those remains of the
proprietary garbage and fails horribly

The only way I see for fixing it from the Mozilla end would be to add
code for detecting MS proprietary garbage in the clipboard and run it
through a sanitizer (something like HTMLtidy with the -word2000 option)
to clean it up.



Thank you for being the first person to fully explain what is going on
in a way I can understand.
I'm still not sure what my best solution is but now I better understand
the issue.

What I often have to do for work is discuss something going on in an
e-mail, and there may be some text or data from a word document - say a
specification or chart that I want to past in. Often it has formatting,
bold, number list etc that I want to preserve so copying to text first
means I have to re-apply all the formatting.

I wonder if there are any other formatted programs that can clean things
up as you suggest without loosing the formating.



I've been assuming that you need to preserve the editability of what
you pull from Word. If not, why not just attach a screenshot? Or use
screen capture software like Snagit: http://www.techsmith.com/snagit.html



Good point.
I don't know that I necessarily need to preserve the editability, but it 
is for business and should remain looking professional and be able to be 
forwarded and reused without any issues (like the attachment loosing the 
in line status). I think keeping the text as text is probably the best 
way to do this.

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Re: Mail doesn't display graphics

[Mr. Cheese]

Geoff Welsh wrote:

Mr. Cheese wrote:

Geoff Welsh wrote:

Mr. Cheese wrote:

Rob wrote:

Mr. Cheese  wrote:

A Williams wrote:

Mr. Cheese wrote:

Suddenly yesterday SM doesn't not display graphics when I view
mail.
I've not made any changes to my environment (that I know of). For
example, logos, and pictures on commercial emails are not shown.
Any idea what's going on?


That is controlled by:
Edit -> Options -> Mail & Newsgroups -> Message Display -> "Block
Images
and other content from remote sources".



I found "block images..." under Edit>Preferences. It was not checked.


Actually for a mail with embedded images it is the setting of
"View -> Display attachments inline" that controls this. There should
be a checkmark in front of that menu entry. If not, click it.

You probably clicked there by accident and changed the setting.
At work, we have locked this setting to "on" for that reason, but
that is not so simple for the home user to implement.


Display attachments inline is checked. any other ideas?


IDR, did you restart with all Add-Ons disabled?

An Add-On (extension, plug-in) breaking is the cause of 99% of "sudden"
new SM problems, from what I have read over the years.

GW

Yes, I've restarted with add-ons disabled. No effect.


I think the next step is creating a new profile, to get the same
messages, and see if they come through normally, with the settings
properly chosen.

GW
Tried a new profile and display is correct. Any idea what happened. all 
the settings are the same.
Now the hard part:  how do I get all my email accounts and sub folders 
moved over... I hope I don't have to rebuild everything

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Is there a working Lightning for Seamonkey 2.19 Linux x86_64?

[Bill Davidsen]

I have found 3 to download and none work. I don't mean the "not support on this 
version" message, is loads, but clicking "Add new event" does nothing. I know 
that x86_64 support has been "coming next year" or "coming when we get build 
resources" for five years or so, but could someone just put a working version in 
a known location, so we don't need to try all of the builds we can find until 
one works, then find the next working version is in some other place?


I assume the lack of official Linux x86_64 support is at least partially 
political, since offers of money or build time on a net accessible machine when 
I was in a position to offer same did not get accepted.


--
Bill Davidsen 
  We are not out of the woods yet, but we know the direction and have
taken the first step. The steps are many, but finite in number, and if
we persevere we will reach our destination.  -me, 2010


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Re: Is there a working Lightning for Seamonkey 2.19 Linux x86_64?

[WaltS]

Bill Davidsen wrote:

I have found 3 to download and none work. I don't mean the "not support on this
version" message, is loads, but clicking "Add new event" does nothing. I know
that x86_64 support has been "coming next year" or "coming when we get build
resources" for five years or so, but could someone just put a working version in
a known location, so we don't need to try all of the builds we can find until
one works, then find the next working version is in some other place?

I assume the lack of official Linux x86_64 support is at least partially
political, since offers of money or build time on a net accessible machine when
I was in a position to offer same did not get accepted.




This one WFM.


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Re: SM19 Email Problems

[PhillipJones]

Philip Taylor wrote:

Ctrl +
Repeat until font large enough to be read.

Or go back to 2.17.1, as many have been forced to do.

Philip Taylor

Brooke Clarke wrote:

Hi:

PLEASE HELP.  The font in the email window is now so small that it can
no longer be read.
The only way I can read email is by doing a print preview.
An email directly to me would be good since it's very hard to real all
of the digest.
bro...@pacific.net

That's not the only thing since switching from 2.0.14 to 2.19 and now to 
20.x.b3 a lot of new group post on this Group and others I post show up 
as timed out and with link to click dead links. I didn't have these 
issues in 2.0.14.


I am also missing QuoteColors and NoSquint.

--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.  "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.netmailto:pjones...@comcast.net
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Re: Mail doesn't display graphics

[Ed Mullen]

Mr. Cheese wrote:


Tried a new profile and display is correct. Any idea what happened. all
the settings are the same.
Now the hard part:  how do I get all my email accounts and sub folders
moved over... I hope I don't have to rebuild everything




--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
What was the best thing before sliced bread?
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Re: Tiny desktop icons

[Lemuel Johnson]

Jim McGhee wrote:

When I drag the icon from the address bar to my desktop to create a link to a 
web page, the icon it creates is a white square with a tiny icon in the middle. 
 The icon is the same size as the tiny icon on the address bar.  IE will create 
a normal size icon.  How do I get SeaMonkey to create a normal icon too?
TIA,
Jim



I do this all the time.  The icons that are created are all "normal sized".
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Re: Is there a working Lightning for Seamonkey 2.19 Linux x86_64?

[Bill Davidsen]

WaltS wrote:

Bill Davidsen wrote:

I have found 3 to download and none work. I don't mean the "not support on this
version" message, is loads, but clicking "Add new event" does nothing. I know
that x86_64 support has been "coming next year" or "coming when we get build
resources" for five years or so, but could someone just put a working version in
a known location, so we don't need to try all of the builds we can find until
one works, then find the next working version is in some other place?

I assume the lack of official Linux x86_64 support is at least partially
political, since offers of money or build time on a net accessible machine when
I was in a position to offer same did not get accepted.




This one WFM.



Thanks for the pointer, are you using the seamonkey 2.19 from your distribution 
or from the contributed download?


--
Bill Davidsen 
  We are not out of the woods yet, but we know the direction and have
taken the first step. The steps are many, but finite in number, and if
we persevere we will reach our destination.  -me, 2010


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Re: Is there a working Lightning for Seamonkey 2.19 Linux x86_64?

[WaltS]

On 08/05/2013 03:27 PM, Bill Davidsen wrote:

WaltS wrote:

Bill Davidsen wrote:

I have found 3 to download and none work. I don't mean the "not support on this
version" message, is loads, but clicking "Add new event" does nothing. I know
that x86_64 support has been "coming next year" or "coming when we get build
resources" for five years or so, but could someone just put a working version in
a known location, so we don't need to try all of the builds we can find until
one works, then find the next working version is in some other place?

I assume the lack of official Linux x86_64 support is at least partially
political, since offers of money or build time on a net accessible machine when
I was in a position to offer same did not get accepted.




This one WFM.




Thanks for the pointer, are you using the seamonkey 2.19 from your distribution
or from the contributed download?




Currently from my distribution.

--
Thunderbird Earlybird 24.0a2 with Lightning 2.6a2
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Re: Cursor doesn't move to default button in Confirm Box

[Vegas Jack]

Geoff Welsh wrote:

Vegas Jack wrote:

On Friday, 19 July 2013 11:09:40 UTC-7, Vegas Jack  wrote:

Since upgrading to 2.19 my mouse cursor no longer points to the Yes box

when going to another folder in my email. Instead the cursor points to

the "C" in the Confirm box. It previously worked perfectly. My mouse

cursor works fine in all other programs on my computer. What's the fix?


No answer yet. Am I the only person with this problem?


the problem is not described to the point that I have any idea whether I
have it or not.

What OS?  What YES box?  where?

GW
Windows 7 Home Premium It is found in the Confirm Box which says 
"Advance to the next unread message in (lists next folder with unread 
messages)". You then have a "Yes" box and a "No" box. Normally your 
mouse cursor would point to the default box "Yes". As to my above email 
it actually points to the top left corner of the Confirm Box. In every 
previous version of SeaMonkey it worked perfectly. Ideas?

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Re: SM19 Email Problems Resolved

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi:

Thanks for the ideas.

The problem was caused by an improper setting that came with SM19.

Edit \ Preferences \ Appearance \ Fonts
There are three font size settings: Proportional, Monospace & Minimum font size.
The latter got changed to "none" with SM19.
I've now set all three to "13" and not only are emails easier for this old guy to read the problem with double spacing 
in the list of folders has gone back to single spacing.


--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html

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Re: Cursor doesn't move to default button in Confirm Box

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Vegas Jack wrote:


Windows 7 Home Premium It is found in the Confirm Box which says
"Advance to the next unread message in (lists next folder with unread
messages)". You then have a "Yes" box and a "No" box. Normally your
mouse cursor would point to the default box "Yes". As to my above
email it actually points to the top left corner of the Confirm Box.
In every previous version of SeaMonkey it worked perfectly. Ideas?


If the "Yes" button is selected (you can tell because it has a darker 
border), just skip the mouse and hit "Enter," which will take you there. 
Alternatively, the "Y" key should also work.


I've never noticed where the mouse was positioned in such cases; I'm 
constantly moving it around anyway.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[David E. Ross]

On 8/5/13 9:59 AM, hawker wrote:
> On 8/5/2013 12:37 PM, BIll Spikowski wrote:
>> hawker wrote:
>>> On 8/2/2013 8:14 PM, MCBastos wrote:
 Interviewed by CNN on 02/08/2013 18:28, Paul B. Gallagher told the world:
> hawker wrote:
>
>> No I have a problem that the way SeaMonkey takes clipboard data from
>> an MS product does not work with all e-mail clients and that SeaMonkey
>> WYSIWYG is not working correctly under the hood. I'm sure if I went
>> from Word to Outlook directly it would work fine. It is SeaMonkey
>> that seems to mangle it. This is a SeaMonkey issue not MS. My guess
>> is it is a Clipboard parsing problem in SeaMonkey.
>
> Probably not. SeaMonkey is probably being too obedient and capturing all
> the garbage codes Word supplies instead of stripping them out. For
> example, I tried pasting one sentence from a Word 2010 document into an
> HTML composition window in SeaMonkey, and I got this:
>
> 
>The body always operates as an integrated
>  mechanism, and “forms”
>  behavioral or motor acts in strict compliance with the conditions
>  in which it
>  is placed.
> followed by 423 more lines of code containing 20,044 characters
> (including spaces). Yes, that's 20 thousand characters, not 20!
>
> The sentence itself was well-formed; the only change was that the curly
> quotes were rendered as HTML character entities, which is not a problem.
>


 I confirm this behavior. I started with a *blank* Word document. I typed
 *one* word in it, with default formatting. I copied that word and pasted
 it into a new Seamonkey HTML-formatted message. Then I saved the message
 and looked at the source code.

 Surprise, surprise: that one word turned into 20 kb of garbage. And it's
 easy to tell that the garbage originated in Word, because, well, things
 like  elements (nonstandard), classes named "Mso"-something (created
 by Word) and conditional comments (another nonstandard, Microsoft-only
 technology)

 What I think is happening...

 1. Word places a lot of proprietary garbage on the clipboard yet tags it
 as "HTML"
 2. Thunderbird/Seamonkey believes the tag and accepts the paste "as is."
 3. It probably tweaks the content a little in order to mesh with the
 rest of the HTML-formatted message.
 4. Most non-MS mail clients ignore the proprietary garbage and render
 the message the same as the Seamonkey-user sender intended.
 5. Outlook, however, attempts to interpret those remains of the
 proprietary garbage and fails horribly

 The only way I see for fixing it from the Mozilla end would be to add
 code for detecting MS proprietary garbage in the clipboard and run it
 through a sanitizer (something like HTMLtidy with the -word2000 option)
 to clean it up.

>>>
>>> Thank you for being the first person to fully explain what is going on
>>> in a way I can understand.
>>> I'm still not sure what my best solution is but now I better understand
>>> the issue.
>>>
>>> What I often have to do for work is discuss something going on in an
>>> e-mail, and there may be some text or data from a word document - say a
>>> specification or chart that I want to past in. Often it has formatting,
>>> bold, number list etc that I want to preserve so copying to text first
>>> means I have to re-apply all the formatting.
>>>
>>> I wonder if there are any other formatted programs that can clean things
>>> up as you suggest without loosing the formating.
>>
>>
>> I've been assuming that you need to preserve the editability of what
>> you pull from Word. If not, why not just attach a screenshot? Or use
>> screen capture software like Snagit: http://www.techsmith.com/snagit.html
>>
> 
> Good point.
> I don't know that I necessarily need to preserve the editability, but it 
> is for business and should remain looking professional and be able to be 
> forwarded and reused without any issues (like the attachment loosing the 
> in line status). I think keeping the text as text is probably the best 
> way to do this.
> 

Consider "printing" from Word to a PDF file and then attaching the PDF
file to the E-mail message.

-- 
David E. Ross


Concerned about someone (e.g., the government)
snooping into your E-mail?  Use PGP.
See my 
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Re: Tiny desktop icons

[Geoff Welsh]

Lemuel Johnson wrote:

Jim McGhee wrote:

When I drag the icon from the address bar to my desktop to create a
link to a web page, the icon it creates is a white square with a tiny
icon in the middle.  The icon is the same size as the tiny icon on the
address bar.  IE will create a normal size icon.  How do I get
SeaMonkey to create a normal icon too?
TIA,
Jim



I do this all the time.  The icons that are created are all "normal sized".


So it would seem the answer is for Jim to use exactly the same set-up as 
Lemuel.  Problem solved.


GW
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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[Ray_Net]

David E. Ross wrote, On 06/08/2013 01:51:

On 8/5/13 9:59 AM, hawker wrote:

On 8/5/2013 12:37 PM, BIll Spikowski wrote:

hawker wrote:

On 8/2/2013 8:14 PM, MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 02/08/2013 18:28, Paul B. Gallagher told the world:

hawker wrote:


No I have a problem that the way SeaMonkey takes clipboard data from
an MS product does not work with all e-mail clients and that SeaMonkey
WYSIWYG is not working correctly under the hood. I'm sure if I went
from Word to Outlook directly it would work fine. It is SeaMonkey
that seems to mangle it. This is a SeaMonkey issue not MS. My guess
is it is a Clipboard parsing problem in SeaMonkey.

Probably not. SeaMonkey is probably being too obedient and capturing all
the garbage codes Word supplies instead of stripping them out. For
example, I tried pasting one sentence from a Word 2010 document into an
HTML composition window in SeaMonkey, and I got this:


The body always operates as an integrated
  mechanism, and “forms”
  behavioral or motor acts in strict compliance with the conditions
  in which it
  is placed.
followed by 423 more lines of code containing 20,044 characters
(including spaces). Yes, that's 20 thousand characters, not 20!

The sentence itself was well-formed; the only change was that the curly
quotes were rendered as HTML character entities, which is not a problem.



I confirm this behavior. I started with a *blank* Word document. I typed
*one* word in it, with default formatting. I copied that word and pasted
it into a new Seamonkey HTML-formatted message. Then I saved the message
and looked at the source code.

Surprise, surprise: that one word turned into 20 kb of garbage. And it's
easy to tell that the garbage originated in Word, because, well, things
like  elements (nonstandard), classes named "Mso"-something (created
by Word) and conditional comments (another nonstandard, Microsoft-only
technology)

What I think is happening...

1. Word places a lot of proprietary garbage on the clipboard yet tags it
as "HTML"
2. Thunderbird/Seamonkey believes the tag and accepts the paste "as is."
3. It probably tweaks the content a little in order to mesh with the
rest of the HTML-formatted message.
4. Most non-MS mail clients ignore the proprietary garbage and render
the message the same as the Seamonkey-user sender intended.
5. Outlook, however, attempts to interpret those remains of the
proprietary garbage and fails horribly

The only way I see for fixing it from the Mozilla end would be to add
code for detecting MS proprietary garbage in the clipboard and run it
through a sanitizer (something like HTMLtidy with the -word2000 option)
to clean it up.


Thank you for being the first person to fully explain what is going on
in a way I can understand.
I'm still not sure what my best solution is but now I better understand
the issue.

What I often have to do for work is discuss something going on in an
e-mail, and there may be some text or data from a word document - say a
specification or chart that I want to past in. Often it has formatting,
bold, number list etc that I want to preserve so copying to text first
means I have to re-apply all the formatting.

I wonder if there are any other formatted programs that can clean things
up as you suggest without loosing the formating.


I've been assuming that you need to preserve the editability of what
you pull from Word. If not, why not just attach a screenshot? Or use
screen capture software like Snagit: http://www.techsmith.com/snagit.html


Good point.
I don't know that I necessarily need to preserve the editability, but it
is for business and should remain looking professional and be able to be
forwarded and reused without any issues (like the attachment loosing the
in line status). I think keeping the text as text is probably the best
way to do this.


Consider "printing" from Word to a PDF file and then attaching the PDF
file to the E-mail message.

A pdf version is like a screen-copy ... a detour instead of the real 
cure of the problem.
The real question is (not easy) : What must be done in SM to permit for 
only Outlook user a correct reading of a mail including a copy/paste 
from Word ?


I have really no idea of feasability.
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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[Geoff Welsh]

David E. Ross wrote:

 hawker wrote:


I don't know that I necessarily need to preserve the editability, but it
is for business and should remain looking professional and be able to be
forwarded and reused without any issues...


Consider "printing" from Word to a PDF file and then attaching the PDF
file to the E-mail message.



+1
GW
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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[Paul B. Gallagher]

David E. Ross wrote:


On 8/5/13 9:59 AM, hawker wrote:


Good point.
I don't know that I necessarily need to preserve the editability,
but it is for business and should remain looking professional and
be able to be forwarded and reused without any issues (like the
attachment losing the in line status). I think keeping the text as
text is probably the best way to do this.



Consider "printing" from Word to a PDF file and then attaching the
PDF file to the E-mail message.


If you're going that route, you don't need to attach the whole PDF 
(especially in case of a large file with only a small area of interest). 
Just use Adobe's snapshot tool to select and copy an image of the 
relevant part of the page, and paste it into your email as a graphic.


Note: The resolution of the resulting image depends on the zoom level in 
Adobe Acrobat. If the area you want to capture is large and hard to 
select at a high zoom level, zoom out to select it with the snapshot 
tool, then zoom in to say 400% and do CTRL-C (or Mac equivalent) to copy 
the same region at higher resolution (it remains selected until you 
release it). When you paste it into SeaMonkey, you may have to resize 
it, but you won't lose the resolution.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: Accentuated characters

[Ray_Net]

Rob wrote, On 05/08/2013 11:01:

Ray_Net  wrote:

accentuated characters looks like they are created in utf8 and read in
iso 
when SM receive a mail crated by live-mail using a gmail account.

Mail very difficult to read ...BUT .

If a do a "forward" or a "Edit as new message" all accentuated
characters are OK

How is it possible to have a perfect text when we do a "forward" or an
"Edit msg as new" and having an horrible renderning when reading the
received mail.
Example:

D'après les échos de chez l'une ou l'autre guide

instead of :
D'après les échos de chez l'une ou l'autre guide

View -> Character encoding -> auto detect -> universal.

When it cannot detect a character set, in the same menu choose the
correct character set (e.g. UTF8).

Good idea, but choosing UTF8 give me:

D'apr�s les �chos

which is not correct.
I have tested all charset available, and i never got a correct reading.

The thing i find very strange, is that when i do a forward or a Edit msg 
as new ... magically the accentuated characters are OK.

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Re: Tiny desktop icons

[Ed Mullen]

Jim McGhee wrote:

When I drag the icon from the address bar to my desktop to create a link to a 
web page, the icon it creates is a white square with a tiny icon in the middle. 
 The icon is the same size as the tiny icon on the address bar.  IE will create 
a normal size icon.  How do I get SeaMonkey to create a normal icon too?
TIA,
Jim



Same here.  Tried a variety of sites, all the same.

I wonder if it has to do with how the favicon is created/stored?  You 
can store multiple sizes in the file or just one.


--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Sex on television can't hurt you unless you fall off.
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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[Trane Francks]

On 8/6/13 9:08 AM +0900, Ray_Net wrote:


A pdf version is like a screen-copy ... a detour instead of the real
cure of the problem.
The real question is (not easy) : What must be done in SM to permit for
only Outlook user a correct reading of a mail including a copy/paste
from Word ?


If I had to hazard a guess, I suspect that SeaMonkey would need to have 
its HTML mail tightened up to ensure that it sanitized any HTML being 
pasted into an e-mail. So, the problem is on both ends: Outlook is too 
dense to properly ignore the non-standard HTML tags, and SeaMonkey isn't 
doing its job in ensuring that the HTML being sent is legit.


Is it doable? Yes. Those bothered by the problem should drop by Bugzilla 
and submit a bug.


Cheers,

trane
--
/
// Trane Franckstr...@gol.comTokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Trane Francks wrote:


On 8/6/13 9:08 AM +0900, Ray_Net wrote:


A pdf version is like a screen-copy ... a detour instead of the real
cure of the problem.
The real question is (not easy) : What must be done in SM to permit for
only Outlook user a correct reading of a mail including a copy/paste
from Word ?


If I had to hazard a guess, I suspect that SeaMonkey would need to have
its HTML mail tightened up to ensure that it sanitized any HTML being
pasted into an e-mail. So, the problem is on both ends: Outlook is too
dense to properly ignore the non-standard HTML tags, and SeaMonkey isn't
doing its job in ensuring that the HTML being sent is legit.

Is it doable? Yes. Those bothered by the problem should drop by Bugzilla
and submit a bug.


You may not be aware, but Composer (the HTML composition app in the 
SeaMonkey suite) was abandoned years ago and is no longer maintained, 
but is still used to support HTML mail composition. So any bug you file 
against it is unlikely to get a response.


If it's really important to you to get clean, W3C-compliant code, you 
should compose it elsewhere and copy/paste it into the SM message 
(Insert... HTML). But for most practical purposes, it's probably more 
trouble than it's worth.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[David E. Ross]

On 8/5/13 5:08 PM, Ray_Net wrote:
> David E. Ross wrote, On 06/08/2013 01:51:
>> On 8/5/13 9:59 AM, hawker wrote:
>>> On 8/5/2013 12:37 PM, BIll Spikowski wrote:
 hawker wrote:
> On 8/2/2013 8:14 PM, MCBastos wrote:
>> Interviewed by CNN on 02/08/2013 18:28, Paul B. Gallagher told the world:
>>> hawker wrote:
>>>
 No I have a problem that the way SeaMonkey takes clipboard data from
 an MS product does not work with all e-mail clients and that SeaMonkey
 WYSIWYG is not working correctly under the hood. I'm sure if I went
 from Word to Outlook directly it would work fine. It is SeaMonkey
 that seems to mangle it. This is a SeaMonkey issue not MS. My guess
 is it is a Clipboard parsing problem in SeaMonkey.
>>> Probably not. SeaMonkey is probably being too obedient and capturing all
>>> the garbage codes Word supplies instead of stripping them out. For
>>> example, I tried pasting one sentence from a Word 2010 document into an
>>> HTML composition window in SeaMonkey, and I got this:
>>>
>>> 
>>> The body always operates as an integrated
>>>   mechanism, and “forms”
>>>   behavioral or motor acts in strict compliance with the 
>>> conditions
>>>   in which it
>>>   is placed.
>>> followed by 423 more lines of code containing 20,044 characters
>>> (including spaces). Yes, that's 20 thousand characters, not 20!
>>>
>>> The sentence itself was well-formed; the only change was that the curly
>>> quotes were rendered as HTML character entities, which is not a problem.
>>>
>>
>> I confirm this behavior. I started with a *blank* Word document. I typed
>> *one* word in it, with default formatting. I copied that word and pasted
>> it into a new Seamonkey HTML-formatted message. Then I saved the message
>> and looked at the source code.
>>
>> Surprise, surprise: that one word turned into 20 kb of garbage. And it's
>> easy to tell that the garbage originated in Word, because, well, things
>> like  elements (nonstandard), classes named "Mso"-something (created
>> by Word) and conditional comments (another nonstandard, Microsoft-only
>> technology)
>>
>> What I think is happening...
>>
>> 1. Word places a lot of proprietary garbage on the clipboard yet tags it
>> as "HTML"
>> 2. Thunderbird/Seamonkey believes the tag and accepts the paste "as is."
>> 3. It probably tweaks the content a little in order to mesh with the
>> rest of the HTML-formatted message.
>> 4. Most non-MS mail clients ignore the proprietary garbage and render
>> the message the same as the Seamonkey-user sender intended.
>> 5. Outlook, however, attempts to interpret those remains of the
>> proprietary garbage and fails horribly
>>
>> The only way I see for fixing it from the Mozilla end would be to add
>> code for detecting MS proprietary garbage in the clipboard and run it
>> through a sanitizer (something like HTMLtidy with the -word2000 option)
>> to clean it up.
>>
> Thank you for being the first person to fully explain what is going on
> in a way I can understand.
> I'm still not sure what my best solution is but now I better understand
> the issue.
>
> What I often have to do for work is discuss something going on in an
> e-mail, and there may be some text or data from a word document - say a
> specification or chart that I want to past in. Often it has formatting,
> bold, number list etc that I want to preserve so copying to text first
> means I have to re-apply all the formatting.
>
> I wonder if there are any other formatted programs that can clean things
> up as you suggest without loosing the formating.

 I've been assuming that you need to preserve the editability of what
 you pull from Word. If not, why not just attach a screenshot? Or use
 screen capture software like Snagit: http://www.techsmith.com/snagit.html

>>> Good point.
>>> I don't know that I necessarily need to preserve the editability, but it
>>> is for business and should remain looking professional and be able to be
>>> forwarded and reused without any issues (like the attachment loosing the
>>> in line status). I think keeping the text as text is probably the best
>>> way to do this.
>>>
>> Consider "printing" from Word to a PDF file and then attaching the PDF
>> file to the E-mail message.
>>
> A pdf version is like a screen-copy ... a detour instead of the real 
> cure of the problem.
> The real question is (not easy) : What must be done in SM to permit for 
> only Outlook user a correct reading of a mail including a copy/paste 
> from Word ?
> 
> I have really no idea of feasability.
> 

You are suggesting that the Mozilla E-mail components be modified to
accomodate the behavior of a Microsoft product when E-ma

Shockwave Flash may be busy...again and again...

[cincy43235]

  For the last several months, I have been getting this message:
 
  Warning: Unresponsive plugin

  Shockwave Flash may be busy, or may not be responding. You can stop the 
plugin now, or you can continue to see if the plugin will complete.

  Do not show me again ContinueStop Plugin

  I have uninstalled and reinstalled Flash 11.8.800.94. I have put 
ProtectedMode=0 in the mms.cfg file. I have tried everything, and I still get 
this message.

   Does anyone know how to get this out of my life once and for all?

   cincy43...@aol.com

   

   "Ladies and gentlemen, I cleared the audience." - David Letterman
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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[Trane Francks]

On 8/6/13 11:51 AM +0900, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:


You may not be aware, but Composer (the HTML composition app in the
SeaMonkey suite) was abandoned years ago and is no longer maintained,
but is still used to support HTML mail composition. So any bug you file
against it is unlikely to get a response.

If it's really important to you to get clean, W3C-compliant code, you
should compose it elsewhere and copy/paste it into the SM message
(Insert... HTML). But for most practical purposes, it's probably more
trouble than it's worth.



Whether SeaMonkey's HTML component is hopelessly borked is not my 
problem. If we assume that Thunderbird does not exhibit this behaviour 
when sending mail to Outlook, SM devs would do well to examine the issue.


It's not my bug, mind. I'm not the OP, so if somebody else wants to 
submit a bug, more power to 'em. I've got my own collection of bugs 
about which to worry. :)


Cheers,

trane
--
/
// Trane Franckstr...@gol.comTokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[Geoff Welsh]

Trane Francks wrote:

On 8/6/13 11:51 AM +0900, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:


You may not be aware, but Composer (the HTML composition app in the
SeaMonkey suite) was abandoned years ago and is no longer maintained,
but is still used to support HTML mail composition. So any bug you file
against it is unlikely to get a response.

If it's really important to you to get clean, W3C-compliant code, you
should compose it elsewhere and copy/paste it into the SM message
(Insert... HTML). But for most practical purposes, it's probably more
trouble than it's worth.



Whether SeaMonkey's HTML component is hopelessly borked is not my
problem. If we assume that Thunderbird does not exhibit this behaviour
when sending mail to Outlook, 


I'm not sure anyone has verified the behavior on multiple SM platforms 
even, let alone tried T-Bird.  The thread pretty much went blame-game 
from day 1.


I can't test/verify it of course, I don't have Word or Outlook.  The 
"paste without formatting" suggestion seemed to be the best answer.


I would have thought the "MS Word writes horrible code" issue was well 
known enough ten years ago, that people didn't even try to paste it into 
another program anymore.


GW

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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Trane Francks wrote:


On 8/6/13 11:51 AM +0900, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:


You may not be aware, but Composer (the HTML composition app in the
SeaMonkey suite) was abandoned years ago and is no longer maintained,
but is still used to support HTML mail composition. So any bug you file
against it is unlikely to get a response.

If it's really important to you to get clean, W3C-compliant code, you
should compose it elsewhere and copy/paste it into the SM message
(Insert... HTML). But for most practical purposes, it's probably more
trouble than it's worth.



Whether SeaMonkey's HTML component is hopelessly borked is not my
problem. If we assume that Thunderbird does not exhibit this behaviour
when sending mail to Outlook, SM devs would do well to examine the issue.


If it does, I agree, but I have no way of knowing since I don't have TB. 
(my last chest X-ray was clear ;-) )


The "HTML component" of which we speak is not the one that renders web 
pages in the browser, mind you. That one works pretty well and is 
actively supported.



It's not my bug, mind. I'm not the OP, so if somebody else wants to
submit a bug, more power to 'em. I've got my own collection of bugs
about which to worry. :)


Fair enough. I's jis' sayin'...

--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[Ray_Net]

David E. Ross wrote, On 06/08/2013 05:22:

On 8/5/13 5:08 PM, Ray_Net wrote:

David E. Ross wrote, On 06/08/2013 01:51:

On 8/5/13 9:59 AM, hawker wrote:

On 8/5/2013 12:37 PM, BIll Spikowski wrote:

hawker wrote:

On 8/2/2013 8:14 PM, MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 02/08/2013 18:28, Paul B. Gallagher told the world:

hawker wrote:


No I have a problem that the way SeaMonkey takes clipboard data from
an MS product does not work with all e-mail clients and that SeaMonkey
WYSIWYG is not working correctly under the hood. I'm sure if I went
from Word to Outlook directly it would work fine. It is SeaMonkey
that seems to mangle it. This is a SeaMonkey issue not MS. My guess
is it is a Clipboard parsing problem in SeaMonkey.

Probably not. SeaMonkey is probably being too obedient and capturing all
the garbage codes Word supplies instead of stripping them out. For
example, I tried pasting one sentence from a Word 2010 document into an
HTML composition window in SeaMonkey, and I got this:


 The body always operates as an integrated
   mechanism, and “forms”
   behavioral or motor acts in strict compliance with the conditions
   in which it
   is placed.
followed by 423 more lines of code containing 20,044 characters
(including spaces). Yes, that's 20 thousand characters, not 20!

The sentence itself was well-formed; the only change was that the curly
quotes were rendered as HTML character entities, which is not a problem.


I confirm this behavior. I started with a *blank* Word document. I typed
*one* word in it, with default formatting. I copied that word and pasted
it into a new Seamonkey HTML-formatted message. Then I saved the message
and looked at the source code.

Surprise, surprise: that one word turned into 20 kb of garbage. And it's
easy to tell that the garbage originated in Word, because, well, things
like  elements (nonstandard), classes named "Mso"-something (created
by Word) and conditional comments (another nonstandard, Microsoft-only
technology)

What I think is happening...

1. Word places a lot of proprietary garbage on the clipboard yet tags it
as "HTML"
2. Thunderbird/Seamonkey believes the tag and accepts the paste "as is."
3. It probably tweaks the content a little in order to mesh with the
rest of the HTML-formatted message.
4. Most non-MS mail clients ignore the proprietary garbage and render
the message the same as the Seamonkey-user sender intended.
5. Outlook, however, attempts to interpret those remains of the
proprietary garbage and fails horribly

The only way I see for fixing it from the Mozilla end would be to add
code for detecting MS proprietary garbage in the clipboard and run it
through a sanitizer (something like HTMLtidy with the -word2000 option)
to clean it up.


Thank you for being the first person to fully explain what is going on
in a way I can understand.
I'm still not sure what my best solution is but now I better understand
the issue.

What I often have to do for work is discuss something going on in an
e-mail, and there may be some text or data from a word document - say a
specification or chart that I want to past in. Often it has formatting,
bold, number list etc that I want to preserve so copying to text first
means I have to re-apply all the formatting.

I wonder if there are any other formatted programs that can clean things
up as you suggest without loosing the formating.

I've been assuming that you need to preserve the editability of what
you pull from Word. If not, why not just attach a screenshot? Or use
screen capture software like Snagit: http://www.techsmith.com/snagit.html


Good point.
I don't know that I necessarily need to preserve the editability, but it
is for business and should remain looking professional and be able to be
forwarded and reused without any issues (like the attachment loosing the
in line status). I think keeping the text as text is probably the best
way to do this.


Consider "printing" from Word to a PDF file and then attaching the PDF
file to the E-mail message.


A pdf version is like a screen-copy ... a detour instead of the real
cure of the problem.
The real question is (not easy) : What must be done in SM to permit for
only Outlook user a correct reading of a mail including a copy/paste
from Word ?

I have really no idea of feasability.


You are suggesting that the Mozilla E-mail components be modified to
accomodate the behavior of a Microsoft product when E-mail applications
of other developers -- neither Mozilla nor Microsoft -- do not need such
a change to Mozilla's components.

Yest. BUTWhen i say "i have really no idea of feasability" i 
underlining think, that there is no solutions, just detours ...

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Re: Cut and Past from Word to Seamonkey is gibberish for Outlook users

[Trane Francks]

On 8/6/13 1:27 PM +0900, Geoff Welsh wrote:

Trane Francks wrote:



Whether SeaMonkey's HTML component is hopelessly borked is not my
problem. If we assume that Thunderbird does not exhibit this behaviour
when sending mail to Outlook, 


I'm not sure anyone has verified the behavior on multiple SM platforms
even, let alone tried T-Bird.  The thread pretty much went blame-game
from day 1.


Well, it pretty much goes without saying that SM is not sanitizing its 
input. Any programmer worth his/her weight in salt knows that input 
validation is crucial to ensuring that the data output has even a 
minimal chance of being okay. The question isn't whether SM is doing it 
wrong (it most assuredly is), but whether the problem is SM-specific or 
is deeper, i.e., Mozilla Core.



I can't test/verify it of course, I don't have Word or Outlook.  The
"paste without formatting" suggestion seemed to be the best answer.


I'm in the same boat: On a Mac, no Word or Outlook.


I would have thought the "MS Word writes horrible code" issue was well
known enough ten years ago, that people didn't even try to paste it into
another program anymore.


People need to understand that what is "bad code" on the outside is 
nothing more than Word mark-up on the inside. You can't /really/ blame 
MS or Word for how the clipboard treats the HTML out of Word, but it 
does bring to light a very interesting question: Why can Outlook users 
paste from Word docs and they send/receive without issue? I can only 
assume that Outlook sanitizes the outgoing HTML, but it's not something 
I can easily verify.


It would be interesting to understand why Word-Outlook-Outlook works and 
yet Word-SeaMonkey-Outlook doesn't. Meanwhile, people will forever paste 
from any program to any other program. Why? Because it's supposed to 
work that way.


trane
--
/
// Trane Franckstr...@gol.comTokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
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