Re: Google search messed up

[NFN Smith]

Mike C wrote:

Just curious...
Why does
Mozilla Seamonkey do this.
And
Mozella Firefox doesn't

I thought Both SM and FF were both Mozilla.



I noted before is that it's how Google handles things with the User 
Agent setting.  If you set Seamonkey to show a standard Firefox UA, then 
Google's displays are what you expect.  If you use the normal Seamonkey 
UA (with or without advertising of Firefox compatibility), then the 
display is off, in the way that you have described.


For what it is worth, I just checked Pale Moon, where the UA is showing

   Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.9) Gecko/20100101 
Goanna/4.4 Firefox/60.9 PaleMoon/28.7.2


where the text following "Firefox" is a PaleMoon identifier, and I'm not 
seeing any display problems there. I don't have a Waterfox 
implementation to check.


There's no telling as to why Google seems to be singling out Seamonkey, 
but it could be that whoever is making the call at Google may be working 
under the assumption that Seamonkey is dead. At the same time, the 
number of Seamonkey users is small enough that for whatever feedback 
they get, changing this issue may be designated as WONTFIX, because the 
number of users is too small to care about.


Smith
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Re: Google search messed up

[Don Spam's Reckless Son]

Just the fact that it worked with Seamonkey 2.49.4 until fairly recently 
should be enough to indicate who broke things.




Mike C wrote:

Just curious...
Why does
Mozilla Seamonkey do this.
And
Mozella Firefox doesn't

I thought Both SM and FF were both Mozilla.



Mike C wrote:

Google search is messed up in SM browser.

Normally the cursor sits in the center of the Google window for me to 
enter a search request.


Now it's sitting up at the top of the window, over the top line of the 
box.


And if more than 18 letters some letters disappear.






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Re: Google search messed up

[Dirk Fieldhouse]

On 29/10/19 04:00, Mike C wrote:

Just curious...
Why does
Mozilla Seamonkey do this.
And
Mozella Firefox doesn't

I thought Both SM and FF were both Mozilla.


The question should be "Why does Google do this? I thought Both SM and 
FF were both Mozilla."


Presumably G's servers look at the UA string and try to classify it as 
one of their known browsers (latest Firefox, latest Firefox ESR, 
whatever version of Chrome -- no doubt they have extensive 
customisations for Chrome versions, etc) and anything else gets the 
weird page designed for some unknown browser, which they assume to be on 
a phone based on stats. The page is broken as served, so can't be 
corrected by blocking client-side code, although overriding styles works 
until they change the page again.


Among the ironies of this is that nowadays almost all browsers would 
adequately render a single conservative page design. What they might 
have more trouble with is leading edge JavaScript spyware, which of 
course is G's stock-in-trade.


/df

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Re: Google search messed up

[Mike C]

Just curious...
Why does
Mozilla Seamonkey do this.
And
Mozella Firefox doesn't

I thought Both SM and FF were both Mozilla.



Mike C wrote:

Google search is messed up in SM browser.

Normally the cursor sits in the center of the Google window for me to 
enter a search request.


Now it's sitting up at the top of the window, over the top line of the box.

And if more than 18 letters some letters disappear.



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Re: Google search messed up

[Mike C]

I don't know how to do any of these:

> What UA's have  you tried?
> Did removing SM from your UA string do anything?
> Did you set UA override FF part to Firefox/55.0?
> Did setting webgl to disabled do anything?


Paul in Houston, TX wrote:

Mike C wrote:

Apparently there's no fix for this.
If you know a fix, please speak up.

And yes I unchecked boxes in preferences > Advanced > HTTP
This fixed the problem about a year ago, doesn't fix it now.


What UA's have  you tried?
Did removing SM from your UA string do anything?
Did you set UA override FF part to Firefox/55.0?
Did setting webgl to disabled do anything?




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Re: Google search messed up

[Dirk Fieldhouse]

On 25/10/19 22:00, WaltS48 wrote:

... >

Actually feature detection is the preferred way to tell if a browser can 
display the site.
... 


Which we all know, and so do people at Google, as their blog shows. But 
when it comes to their major online product, that all goes out of the 
window, down the toilet, or somewhere else. Hence the (strained) hilarity.


Mozilla's advice "your first step is to try to avoid [UA sniffing] if 
possible" is a bit soft. Just don't do it.


I suppose G's dodgy search pages lump the SeaMonkey UA with some buggy 
mobile browser.


/df

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Re: Google search messed up

[WaltS48]

On 10/25/19 2:12 PM, Dirk Fieldhouse wrote:

On 25/10/19 09:22, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:


...>

The fix is for Goggle to correct their incorrect user agent detection. 
They don't care about anyhting but Chrome so hell will probably frezze 
over first.


You can only set a custom user agent for their broken site.


Or override the broken layout with user CSS.

Hilariously, you can read this advice to webmasters from Google 
: 



"Sites that follow our recommendations to use feature detection and 
progressive enhancement instead of user agent sniffing should continue 
to work without any changes.


If your site looks for a specific user agent, it may be affected. You 
should use feature detection instead of user agent sniffing."


You couldn't make it up, left and right hands, do as I say not as I do, 
etc.


Today, with JS disabled and default UA "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; 
rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 SeaMonkey/2.49.5", I'm getting a 
sensible page at .com and .co.uk, with a full menu across the top and a 
correctly themed search box and buttons. The country pages .in, .de, 
.fr, .es, .com.au, etc, have a search box whose text field overlaps the 
top of the bordered area and needs to be about half again as wide and a 
minimal top menu. These things seem to change unpredictably. Most 
recently they started sending CSS embedded in a 

Re: Google search messed up

[Dirk Fieldhouse]

On 25/10/19 09:22, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:


...>

The fix is for Goggle to correct their incorrect user agent detection. 
They don't care about anyhting but Chrome so hell will probably frezze 
over first.


You can only set a custom user agent for their broken site.


Or override the broken layout with user CSS.

Hilariously, you can read this advice to webmasters from Google 
:


"Sites that follow our recommendations to use feature detection and 
progressive enhancement instead of user agent sniffing should continue 
to work without any changes.


If your site looks for a specific user agent, it may be affected. You 
should use feature detection instead of user agent sniffing."


You couldn't make it up, left and right hands, do as I say not as I do, etc.

Today, with JS disabled and default UA "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; 
rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 SeaMonkey/2.49.5", I'm getting a 
sensible page at .com and .co.uk, with a full menu across the top and a 
correctly themed search box and buttons. The country pages .in, .de, 
.fr, .es, .com.au, etc, have a search box whose text field overlaps the 
top of the bordered area and needs to be about half again as wide and a 
minimal top menu. These things seem to change unpredictably. Most 
recently they started sending CSS embedded in a 

Re: Google search messed up

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

Mike C wrote:

Apparently there's no fix for this.
If you know a fix, please speak up.

And yes I unchecked boxes in preferences > Advanced > HTTP
This fixed the problem about a year ago, doesn't fix it now.

Mike C wrote:

Google search is messed up in SM browser.

Normally the cursor sits in the center of the Google window for me to enter 
a search request.


Now it's sitting up at the top of the window, over the top line of the box.

And if more than 18 letters some letters disappear.





The fix is for Goggle to correct their incorrect user agent detection. They 
don't care about anyhting but Chrome so hell will probably frezze over first.


You can only set a custom user agent for their broken site.

FRG
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Re: Google search messed up

[Paul in Houston, TX]

Mike C wrote:

Apparently there's no fix for this.
If you know a fix, please speak up.

And yes I unchecked boxes in preferences > Advanced > HTTP
This fixed the problem about a year ago, doesn't fix it now.


What UA's have  you tried?
Did removing SM from your UA string do anything?
Did you set UA override FF part to Firefox/55.0?
Did setting webgl to disabled do anything?


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Re: Google search messed up

[Jonathan Wilson]

I have "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:64.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/64.0" set in about:config under 
general.useragent.override.google.com.au and it seems to work for me.


Without that user agent override I get the same problems others have described.
I have "Advertise Firefox Compatibility" turned on btw.
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Re: Google search messed up

[Mike C]

Apparently there's no fix for this.
If you know a fix, please speak up.

And yes I unchecked boxes in preferences > Advanced > HTTP
This fixed the problem about a year ago, doesn't fix it now.

Mike C wrote:

Google search is messed up in SM browser.

Normally the cursor sits in the center of the Google window for me to 
enter a search request.


Now it's sitting up at the top of the window, over the top line of the box.

And if more than 18 letters some letters disappear.



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Re: Google search messed up

[Ray Davison]

David H. Durgee wrote:


I have used StartPage for years.  They use the google engine but don't
invade my privacy.


But you still get to see what Google thinks you should.  A recent, 
serious study showed that Google has both the bias and ability to effect 
close elections.


Bing and Yahoo did not show bias.

Ray
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Re: Google search messed up

[MRoss-GMX]

Mon, 21 Oct 2019 11:32 -0500 Mike C wrote:
Google search is messed up in SM browser.


Seamonkey is not the problem, and DuckDuckGo.com helps; But;

Any form of Google is messed up for decades now, not reliable or safe
for use by any non-Google software/server/client to access; not in
compliance with the world standard RFC on IMAP.

It was never compliant with IMAP created by Mark Crispin at Stanford
nor afterwords as it evolved; and Mark informed everybody of that on
the UWash Pine/Alpine list circa 2010 after trying to help Google
correct their servers. Google basically laughed at Mark, ignored him.
I emailed with that list for years, and several times with Mark. He
was open with his exposure of Google and Microsoft proprietary
marketing manners. We lost Mark circa late 2013 at an early age. his
writings must still exist someplace, UWash Alpine email client list
archives maybe.

Google is proprietary on purpose as Google wants it to be to control
and command users, by teasing users, baiting users for their profit,
to use GoogleSpyWare. Or punishes them for not using GoogleSpyWare.
Enjoy it.

Google Spends $3.2 Billion To Control Every Object In The House Of The
Future
https://www.blacklistednews.com/Google_Spends_%243.2_Billion_To_Control_Every_Object_In_The_House_Of_The_Future/32002/0/0/0/Y/M.html

Nothing from Google is safe, certainly not on any Android unit. All
hacked by design. Most financial loss People suffer is via their
Google Android Fone, according to recently released research and I
remember a Forbes financial publication!

I avoid all financial and email use on this DVoid Nokia fone I carry.
Unfortunately, no alternative exists yet. Blackberry is dead. Apple
insane. Nokia Symbian? - lost it and is a shell Android system after
the Microsoft raid and confiscation; trying to recover w-Android OS. I
carry a Nokia 2 model since July, functions I limit, duckduckgo added.

If you access Google webpages, assets, without GoogleSpyWare - don't
expect it to work correctly - on purpose. Use GoogleSpyWare when you
want to access any Google web asset or Google quasi-webpage.

What happened to the generic RFC standard inet and email? Linux OS,
Seamonkey, and Alpine email client type software exists for a reason.
It can avoid outside proprietary control of an inet experience.

Am I wrong, let me have it! But Seamonkey ain't the problem for
search or email or any Google type related asset. Microsoft ain't no
better.

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Re: Google search messed up

[WaltS48]

On 10/23/19 1:08 PM, alex zuber wrote:

On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 6:19:55 PM UTC-4, Paul in Houston, TX wrote:

Mike C wrote:

Google search is messed up in SM browser.

Normally the cursor sits in the center of the Google window for me to
enter a search request.

Now it's sitting up at the top of the window, over the top line of the box.

And if more than 18 letters some letters disappear.


That is a long ongoing problem with Google.
Change your UA.  (See NFN Smith's post.)


Has any body used the the new Google.



If I used SeaMonkey, I would use the default DuckDuckGo search engine.

That is what my Firefox is configured to use for the default search engine.

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Re: Google search messed up

[Paul in Houston, TX]

alex zuber wrote:

On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 6:19:55 PM UTC-4, Paul in Houston, TX wrote:

Mike C wrote:

Google search is messed up in SM browser.

Normally the cursor sits in the center of the Google window for me to
enter a search request.

Now it's sitting up at the top of the window, over the top line of the box.

And if more than 18 letters some letters disappear.


That is a long ongoing problem with Google.
Change your UA.  (See NFN Smith's post.)


Has any body used the the new Google.


Have never seen anything about a new google and don't know what that is.

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Re: Google search messed up

[David H. Durgee]

Ray Davison wrote:
> alex zuber wrote:
> 
>>
>> Has any body used the the new Google.
>>
> No, but I switched to Bing, yes after disliking everything about MS.
> 
> Bing seems to work just fine and doesn't have the issue of this thread,
> or other issues left unstated here.
> 
> Ray
> 
> 

I have used StartPage for years.  They use the google engine but don't
invade my privacy.

Dave
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Re: Google search messed up

[Ray Davison]

alex zuber wrote:



Has any body used the the new Google.


No, but I switched to Bing, yes after disliking everything about MS.

Bing seems to work just fine and doesn't have the issue of this thread, 
or other issues left unstated here.


Ray


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Re: Google search messed up

[alex zuber]

On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 6:19:55 PM UTC-4, Paul in Houston, TX wrote:
> Mike C wrote:
> > Google search is messed up in SM browser.
> >
> > Normally the cursor sits in the center of the Google window for me to
> > enter a search request.
> >
> > Now it's sitting up at the top of the window, over the top line of the box.
> >
> > And if more than 18 letters some letters disappear.
> 
> That is a long ongoing problem with Google.
> Change your UA.  (See NFN Smith's post.)

Has any body used the the new Google.
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Re: Google search messed up

[cyberzen]

Mike C a écrit :

And yes, I have version 2.49.4
Windows 10 pro

Mike C wrote:

Google search is messed up in SM browser.

Normally the cursor sits in the center of the Google window for me to 
enter a search request.


Now it's sitting up at the top of the window, over the top line of the 
box.


And if more than 18 letters some letters disappear.




TotalSpoof extention
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Re: Google search messed up

[Mike C]

Hello NFN Smith,
Thanks for your suggestion.
Not sure I know how to do it.
Please explain a little more.

> You can also hard-code that into your prefs.js file (via about:config),
> by setting general.useragent.override.google.com to show a true Firefox
> UA.  I had forgotten that I've done this on my own installation.  I
> currently have:
>
> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
> Firefox/60.0
>
> With this, only Google sees me showing Firefox without Seamonkey, and
> the display in Google's search bar turns up correctly. I've just updated
> my settings to show Firefox 68 (e.g., 68esr), rather than 60.

Thanks in advance.



NFN Smith wrote:

Mike C wrote:

Google search is messed up in SM browser.

Normally the cursor sits in the center of the Google window for me to 
enter a search request.


Now it's sitting up at the top of the window, over the top line of the 
box.


And if more than 18 letters some letters disappear.



That's been around for some time -- it's definitely an annoyance, but 
not a true problem.


For some reason, Google seems to not like the standard User Agent string 
that shows "Seamonkey" in the name.


Mine is currently:

    Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/52.0 SeaMonkey/2.49.5


I've found that with UA spoofing, if I remove the reference to 
SeaMonkey, then the display issue with Google goes away.


Personally, I use the PrefBar extension to allow me to change my UA 
string when I want it, although it's now hard to find that extension.


You can also hard-code that into your prefs.js file (via about:config), 
by setting general.useragent.override.google.com to show a true Firefox 
UA.  I had forgotten that I've done this on my own installation.  I 
currently have:


    Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/60.0


With this, only Google sees me showing Firefox without Seamonkey, and 
the display in Google's search bar turns up correctly. I've just updated 
my settings to show Firefox 68 (e.g., 68esr), rather than 60.


You can also specify spoofing globally by making your setting in 
general.useragent.override (rather than specifically for google.com), 
although I don't recommend that, as global spoofing will also turn up in 
your email.  Although most people don't track the User-Agent header in 
email, Seamonkey does put that info there, and if you're spoofing, it 
does look odd to see email from a user that purports to be sending with 
Firefox as an email client.


Smith



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Re: Google search messed up

[Paul in Houston, TX]

Mike C wrote:

Google search is messed up in SM browser.

Normally the cursor sits in the center of the Google window for me to
enter a search request.

Now it's sitting up at the top of the window, over the top line of the box.

And if more than 18 letters some letters disappear.


That is a long ongoing problem with Google.
Change your UA.  (See NFN Smith's post.)

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Re: Google search messed up

[NFN Smith]

Mike C wrote:

Google search is messed up in SM browser.

Normally the cursor sits in the center of the Google window for me to 
enter a search request.


Now it's sitting up at the top of the window, over the top line of the box.

And if more than 18 letters some letters disappear.



That's been around for some time -- it's definitely an annoyance, but 
not a true problem.


For some reason, Google seems to not like the standard User Agent string 
that shows "Seamonkey" in the name.


Mine is currently:

   Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/52.0 SeaMonkey/2.49.5


I've found that with UA spoofing, if I remove the reference to 
SeaMonkey, then the display issue with Google goes away.


Personally, I use the PrefBar extension to allow me to change my UA 
string when I want it, although it's now hard to find that extension.


You can also hard-code that into your prefs.js file (via about:config), 
by setting general.useragent.override.google.com to show a true Firefox 
UA.  I had forgotten that I've done this on my own installation.  I 
currently have:


   Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/60.0


With this, only Google sees me showing Firefox without Seamonkey, and 
the display in Google's search bar turns up correctly. I've just updated 
my settings to show Firefox 68 (e.g., 68esr), rather than 60.


You can also specify spoofing globally by making your setting in 
general.useragent.override (rather than specifically for google.com), 
although I don't recommend that, as global spoofing will also turn up in 
your email.  Although most people don't track the User-Agent header in 
email, Seamonkey does put that info there, and if you're spoofing, it 
does look odd to see email from a user that purports to be sending with 
Firefox as an email client.


Smith

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Re: Google search messed up

[Mike C]

And yes, I have version 2.49.4
Windows 10 pro

Mike C wrote:

Google search is messed up in SM browser.

Normally the cursor sits in the center of the Google window for me to 
enter a search request.


Now it's sitting up at the top of the window, over the top line of the box.

And if more than 18 letters some letters disappear.



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Google search messed up

[Mike C]

Google search is messed up in SM browser.

Normally the cursor sits in the center of the Google window for me to 
enter a search request.


Now it's sitting up at the top of the window, over the top line of the box.

And if more than 18 letters some letters disappear.

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