Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Marc Lavallée]

Le 13/09/2018 à 14:04, Courville, Daniel a écrit :

New tetrahedral mic and recorder from Zoom:
https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-h3-vr-handy-recorder


I just read the quick guide pdf document (which is only 16 pages long).

It has nice features; notably it can work as a 4-channel USB sound module.

Sadly, the remote control app is for iOS only (no Android version yet); 
I guess that a market study proved that the target audience is mostly 
using Apple products.


Something odd; the orientation must be set in the menu, and the 
orientation sensors are just used to adjust the tilt of the microphone 
(like an integrated level). An orientation tracker, with automatic 
rotation of the soundfield would have been better (but maybe more 
expensive). The same tracker could have been used to rotate the 
soundfield while replaying the recording through the phone out, instead 
of changing the soundfield rotation in the menu (because small lcd menus 
are such a pain to use).


Marc

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[David Worrall]

Hi All,

I didn’t manage to see a price. Any clues?

 

Cheers,

David

 

 

From: Sursound  on behalf of Marc Lavallée 

Reply-To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Date: Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 8:00 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

 

Le 13/09/2018 à 14:04, Courville, Daniel a écrit :

New tetrahedral mic and recorder from Zoom:

https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-h3-vr-handy-recorder

 

I just read the quick guide pdf document (which is only 16 pages long).

 

It has nice features; notably it can work as a 4-channel USB sound module.

 

Sadly, the remote control app is for iOS only (no Android version yet); 

I guess that a market study proved that the target audience is mostly 

using Apple products.

 

Something odd; the orientation must be set in the menu, and the 

orientation sensors are just used to adjust the tilt of the microphone 

(like an integrated level). An orientation tracker, with automatic 

rotation of the soundfield would have been better (but maybe more 

expensive). The same tracker could have been used to rotate the 

soundfield while replaying the recording through the phone out, instead 

of changing the soundfield rotation in the menu (because small lcd menus 

are such a pain to use).

 

Marc

 

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Søren Bendixen]

Someone on Facebook mention around 350 USD
https://www.facebook.com/groups/SpatialAudioVRARMR/?multi_permalinks=1454242301385759¬if_id=1536703644190551¬if_t=group_highlights
 
<https://www.facebook.com/groups/SpatialAudioVRARMR/?multi_permalinks=1454242301385759¬if_id=1536703644190551¬if_t=group_highlights>

/Søren Bendixen

> Den 14. sep. 2018 kl. 09.43 skrev David Worrall :
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I didn’t manage to see a price. Any clues?
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Sursound  on behalf of Marc Lavallée 
> 
> Reply-To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> Date: Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 8:00 PM
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
> 
> 
> 
> Le 13/09/2018 à 14:04, Courville, Daniel a écrit :
> 
> New tetrahedral mic and recorder from Zoom:
> 
> https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-h3-vr-handy-recorder
> 
> 
> 
> I just read the quick guide pdf document (which is only 16 pages long).
> 
> 
> 
> It has nice features; notably it can work as a 4-channel USB sound module.
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly, the remote control app is for iOS only (no Android version yet); 
> 
> I guess that a market study proved that the target audience is mostly 
> 
> using Apple products.
> 
> 
> 
> Something odd; the orientation must be set in the menu, and the 
> 
> orientation sensors are just used to adjust the tilt of the microphone 
> 
> (like an integrated level). An orientation tracker, with automatic 
> 
> rotation of the soundfield would have been better (but maybe more 
> 
> expensive). The same tracker could have been used to rotate the 
> 
> soundfield while replaying the recording through the phone out, instead 
> 
> of changing the soundfield rotation in the menu (because small lcd menus 
> 
> are such a pain to use).
> 
> 
> 
> Marc
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Sursound mailing list
> 
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> 
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
> account or options, view archives and so on.
> 
> 
> 
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> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
> account or options, view archives and so on.

Med venlig hilsen/Best regards

Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer

Company: Audiotect

New Exhibition sound design " På Djengis Khans stepper - Mongoliets Nomader", 
- Moesgaard Museum, 19 june 2018 - 7 april 2019
- National Museum of Denmark: From june  2019 

Jyllandsposten: 5 (out of 6) Stars: “The illusion of a railroad journey is 
underpinned by the sceneries that stand outside the windows. Sound and image 
are in exemplary harmony, which is just as consistent
completed when you attend the exhibition. the room is generally enhanced by a 
rather fascinating sound design” (22 juni 2018)



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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Drew Kirkland]

https://www.harmonycentral.com/news/the-h3-vr-handy-recorder---vr-audio-youve-arrived

On Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 09:05 Søren Bendixen,  wrote:

> Someone on Facebook mention around 350 USD
>
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/SpatialAudioVRARMR/?multi_permalinks=1454242301385759¬if_id=1536703644190551¬if_t=group_highlights
> <
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/SpatialAudioVRARMR/?multi_permalinks=1454242301385759¬if_id=1536703644190551¬if_t=group_highlights
> >
>
> /Søren Bendixen
>
> > Den 14. sep. 2018 kl. 09.43 skrev David Worrall :
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I didn’t manage to see a price. Any clues?
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Sursound  on behalf of Marc
> Lavallée 
> > Reply-To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> > Date: Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 8:00 PM
> > To: 
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
> >
> >
> >
> > Le 13/09/2018 à 14:04, Courville, Daniel a écrit :
> >
> > New tetrahedral mic and recorder from Zoom:
> >
> >
> https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-h3-vr-handy-recorder
> >
> >
> >
> > I just read the quick guide pdf document (which is only 16 pages long).
> >
> >
> >
> > It has nice features; notably it can work as a 4-channel USB sound
> module.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sadly, the remote control app is for iOS only (no Android version yet);
> >
> > I guess that a market study proved that the target audience is mostly
> >
> > using Apple products.
> >
> >
> >
> > Something odd; the orientation must be set in the menu, and the
> >
> > orientation sensors are just used to adjust the tilt of the microphone
> >
> > (like an integrated level). An orientation tracker, with automatic
> >
> > rotation of the soundfield would have been better (but maybe more
> >
> > expensive). The same tracker could have been used to rotate the
> >
> > soundfield while replaying the recording through the phone out, instead
> >
> > of changing the soundfield rotation in the menu (because small lcd menus
> >
> > are such a pain to use).
> >
> >
> >
> > Marc
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> >
> > Sursound mailing list
> >
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> >
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
> >
> >
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> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180914/c14e6e0d/attachment.html
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
>
> Søren Bendixen
> Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
>
> Company: Audiotect
>
> New Exhibition sound design " På Djengis Khans stepper - Mongoliets
> Nomader",
> - Moesgaard Museum, 19 june 2018 - 7 april 2019
> - National Museum of Denmark: From june  2019
>
> Jyllandsposten: 5 (out of 6) Stars: “The illusion of a railroad journey is
> underpinned by the sceneries that stand outside the windows. Sound and
> image are in exemplary harmony, which is just as consistent
> completed when you attend the exhibition. the room is generally enhanced
> by a rather fascinating sound design” (22 juni 2018)
>
>
>
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-- 





Drew Kirkland
1 campbleton cottage
Hunterston Estate
KA23 9QF
07876 238 608
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[David Pickett]

At 10:10 14-09-18, Drew Kirkland wrote:
>
>https://www.harmonycentral.com/news/the-h3-vr-handy-recorder---vr-audi
>o-youve-arrived
>
>On Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 09:05 Søren Bendixen,  wrote:
>
>> Someone on Facebook mention around 350 USD

This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for 
that kind of money you dont get any numerical 
specifications, graphs, or guarantee of capsule 
matching, repeatability or variance between 
examples, all of which determine its potential value as a professional tool.


David

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Eero Aro]

David Pickett wrote:

This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money you 
dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of capsule 
matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all of which 
determine its potential value as a professional tool.


For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone
for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure!

I have been using my employer's Soundfield Mk IV and V and the ST250.
All of them have been noisy and expensive buggers not suited for my pocket
money to buy one for my personal use.  All other, later Ambisonic mic models
have also been and are too expensive for me to buy. That's why the Zoom 
H3 is
welcome and it will surely find buyers. There is a market gap for a 
reasonably

priced Ambisonic microphone.

I do understand that the H3 will not be technically and audio quality wise
at as high level as products that cost ten on more times more, but the 
biggest

problem with all Ambisonic gear during the years has been that there hasn't
been equipment for the ordinary home user. Only some decoders, such as
the Minims were targeted for the home, and even them were a bit complicated
for Joe D to set up.

Eero
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Augustine Leudar]

Couldnt see the cost anywhere ? Anyone know the pricing ?

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 at 11:20, Eero Aro  wrote:

> David Pickett wrote:
>
> > This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money you
> > dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of capsule
> > matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all of which
> > determine its potential value as a professional tool.
>
> For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone
> for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure!
>
> I have been using my employer's Soundfield Mk IV and V and the ST250.
> All of them have been noisy and expensive buggers not suited for my pocket
> money to buy one for my personal use.  All other, later Ambisonic mic
> models
> have also been and are too expensive for me to buy. That's why the Zoom
> H3 is
> welcome and it will surely find buyers. There is a market gap for a
> reasonably
> priced Ambisonic microphone.
>
> I do understand that the H3 will not be technically and audio quality wise
> at as high level as products that cost ten on more times more, but the
> biggest
> problem with all Ambisonic gear during the years has been that there hasn't
> been equipment for the ordinary home user. Only some decoders, such as
> the Minims were targeted for the home, and even them were a bit complicated
> for Joe D to set up.
>
> Eero
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>


-- 
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
+44(0)7555784775
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Paul Scargill]

 $349 pre-order according to this 
website...http://360rumors.com/2018/09/can-now-preorder-zoom-h3-vr-ambisonic-microphone-auto-alignment-advanced-features.html

On Saturday, 15 September 2018, 11:35:26 GMT+1, Augustine Leudar 
 wrote:  
 
 Couldnt see the cost anywhere ? Anyone know the pricing ?

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 at 11:20, Eero Aro  wrote:

> David Pickett wrote:
>
> > This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money you
> > dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of capsule
> > matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all of which
> > determine its potential value as a professional tool.
>
> For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone
> for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure!
>
> I have been using my employer's Soundfield Mk IV and V and the ST250.
> All of them have been noisy and expensive buggers not suited for my pocket
> money to buy one for my personal use.  All other, later Ambisonic mic
> models
> have also been and are too expensive for me to buy. That's why the Zoom
> H3 is
> welcome and it will surely find buyers. There is a market gap for a
> reasonably
> priced Ambisonic microphone.
>
> I do understand that the H3 will not be technically and audio quality wise
> at as high level as products that cost ten on more times more, but the
> biggest
> problem with all Ambisonic gear during the years has been that there hasn't
> been equipment for the ordinary home user. Only some decoders, such as
> the Minims were targeted for the home, and even them were a bit complicated
> for Joe D to set up.
>
> Eero
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>


-- 
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
+44(0)7555784775
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Marc Lavallée]

Le 15/09/2018 à 06:19, Eero Aro a écrit :


David Pickett wrote:

This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money 
you dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of 
capsule matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all of 
which determine its potential value as a professional tool.


For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone
for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure!


What I'm still waiting for is a free (as in speech) Ambisonics 
microphone like the ones being developed by the SpHEAR project: 
https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/


I want something affordable, that I can build, fix and calibrate myself, 
without two PhDs and access to a nuclear-powered anechoic chamber. I 
want a modest gear and enough knowledge. In the meanwhile, I could get 
an H3 (or some other affordable "solution"), but like David I want the 
numbers. So its a call to all experts who are still reading Sursound; 
collaborate to the SpHEAR project and make us capable of building a 
decent Ambisonics microphone. I know it will happen, but by then, how 
many new obscure and shiny "products" will hit the market?


Marc

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 15.09.18 um 12:19 schrieb Eero Aro:


For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone
for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure!


Same here. Can't wait to get one.

Wondering if a 350 USD mic with built-in recorder will be useable as a 
professional tool seems to me quite ... errr... unprofessional. Reminds 
me of those articles in British photo rags of the 1980s with titles like 
"How to become a press photographer with a Zenit and a megazoom".


I've been playing with Zoom recorders for over ten years and I've been 
having lots of fun with them. More so indeed than I've ever had with a 
whole O/B van full of equipment in my days as a pro audio engineer. 
They're great little toys but I wouldn't dream of using one for serious 
work.


Horses for courses.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Augustine Leudar]

Ha - Ive used them for professional work as well as mor ehi end stuff like
Nagras etc - and Ive even had a few pros asking me what mics I used -
imagine the horror on their faces.

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 at 14:16, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:

> Am 15.09.18 um 12:19 schrieb Eero Aro:
>
> > For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone
> > for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure!
>
> Same here. Can't wait to get one.
>
> Wondering if a 350 USD mic with built-in recorder will be useable as a
> professional tool seems to me quite ... errr... unprofessional. Reminds
> me of those articles in British photo rags of the 1980s with titles like
> "How to become a press photographer with a Zenit and a megazoom".
>
> I've been playing with Zoom recorders for over ten years and I've been
> having lots of fun with them. More so indeed than I've ever had with a
> whole O/B van full of equipment in my days as a pro audio engineer.
> They're great little toys but I wouldn't dream of using one for serious
> work.
>
> Horses for courses.
>
> Ralf
>
> --
> Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
> Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
> Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
> Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
> ___
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> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>


-- 
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
+44(0)7555784775
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[David Pickett]

At 12:19 15-09-18, Eero Aro wrote:

David Pickett wrote:

This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money 
you dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of 
capsule matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all 
of which determine its potential value as a professional tool.


For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone
for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure!

I have been using my employer's Soundfield Mk IV and V and the ST250.
All of them have been noisy and expensive buggers not suited for my pocket
money to buy one for my personal use.  All other, later Ambisonic mic models
have also been and are too expensive for me to buy. That's why the Zoom H3 is
welcome and it will surely find buyers. There is a market gap for a reasonably
priced Ambisonic microphone.

I do understand that the H3 will not be technically and audio quality wise
at as high level as products that cost ten on more times more, but the biggest
problem with all Ambisonic gear during the years has been that there hasn't
been equipment for the ordinary home user. Only some decoders, such as
the Minims were targeted for the home, and even them were a bit complicated
for Joe D to set up.


I totally agree about the fundamental inadequacies of the Soundfield 
mics that Eero lists. But I dont see why there cannot today be better 
products that dont cost the earth. Technical quality should not be 
assumed to be suspect on grounds of price alone. Quality control is 
measurable and can be done automatically in this day and age. By 
using electret capsules and digital measurement techniques, modern 
microphones can be mass produced more cheaply than the designs of 50 
years ago. That being the case, I do not understand why today we get 
no published specifications of FR, polar diagram, FR, with +/- n dB tolerances.


David

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Chris Woolf]

Marc L said:

What I'm still waiting for is a free (as in speech) Ambisonics 
microphone like the ones being developed by the SpHEAR project: 
https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/


I want something affordable, that I can build, fix and calibrate 
myself, without two PhDs and access to a nuclear-powered anechoic 
chamber. I want a modest gear and enough knowledge


Marc
The great problem, of course, is that these things are only "affordable" 
if they can be mass-produced and sold in the tens of thousands. In DIY 
quantities for enthusiasts they may be excellent in quality, but they 
really cannot be inexpensive.


For low cost the Zooms and the Rode's are the only plausible future, 
because they can amortise their enormous research, set-up and machining 
costs over sufficient numbers. The interesting point is that the sort of 
accuracy and tolerance feasible during their style of mass-production is 
beginning to equate to that of the specialists of bygone years.


How open these sort of products can be in terms of internal architecture 
and calibration is another (commercial) problem. At least some secrecy 
is essential to their business model, to avoid making reverse 
engineering too easy... and therefore losing the mass market that their 
product has to be based on.


None of this appeals to the artisan in most of us, but the reality of it 
cannot be ignored either.


Chris Woolf

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[hacklava]

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 14:52:03 +0100
Chris Woolf  wrote:

> How open these sort of products can be in terms of internal architecture 
> and calibration is another (commercial) problem. At least some secrecy 
> is essential to their business model, to avoid making reverse 
> engineering too easy... and therefore losing the mass market that their 
> product has to be based on.

I read your "it's the economy, stupid" argument. Now there's a market. 
Hallelujah. Consumers of the world, praise secrecy.

My point is that all the hardware is available to build an Ambisonics 
microphone, there's no fondamental research to be done (at least for a simple 
FOA microphone), and Ambisonics is patent free. That's exactly why Zoom was 
able to create a new consumer product. There's probably more plastic than 
anything else in this microphone. It will good enough, and a lot of fun to use, 
but still... The missing "soft" part is calibration... Even if calibration 
becomes common knowledge, there would be people making money offering 
calibration services; the end of secrecy is not the end of economy.

> None of this appeals to the artisan in most of us, but the reality of it 
> cannot be ignored either.

Like sound, reality have directional components; we're in 2018, not in 1980, 
and there's alternatives.

Marc
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Chris Woolf]

On 15/09/2018 16:12, hacklava wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 14:52:03 +0100
Chris Woolf  wrote:


How open these sort of products can be in terms of internal architecture
and calibration is another (commercial) problem. At least some secrecy
is essential to their business model, to avoid making reverse
engineering too easy... and therefore losing the mass market that their
product has to be based on.

I read your "it's the economy, stupid" argument. Now there's a market. 
Hallelujah. Consumers of the world, praise secrecy.
Put it this way; I understand how the audio market works, having been a 
designer for bits of it over the decades. Personally I love the artisan 
aspect, but I have to accept that patents and keeping some things hidden 
has been what has paid my for my bread crusts over the years.

My point is that all the hardware is available to build an Ambisonics 
microphone,
But selling you 4 matched capsules as an individual, and selling them as 
part of a finished ambisonics recorder, is a very different commercial 
matter.

... There's probably more plastic than anything else in this microphone.
Oh, don't dismiss plastic! It can be a far better material than metal, 
used in the right place. Nor is it cheap to design and tool - it is just 
cheap as a part, when you make 100,000. I have countless arguments about 
the use of foam i n windshields, which people assume must be cheap 
because they see something like it in packaging. They never realise how 
hard it is to engineer on a 3-axis high speed CNC.


Like sound, reality have directional components; we're in 2018, not in 1980, 
and there's alternatives.

There are

Chris Woolf

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Fernando Lopez-Lezcano]

On 09/15/2018 08:12 AM, hacklava wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 14:52:03 +0100
Chris Woolf  wrote:

How open these sort of products can be in terms of internal architecture
and calibration is another (commercial) problem.


Ah, yes, calibration. I imagine that the H3V is not individually 
calibrated (like the Ambeo). That means frequency response and polar 
patterns will not be "perfect", but I presume they will be good enough 
(they say the capsules are matched). Even if they are not "perfect", 
will those errors be perceptually relevant to recordings made with it?



At least some secrecy
is essential to their business model, to avoid making reverse
engineering too easy...


Hmmm, for a first order microphone it does not look to me like you need 
any reverse engineering to see what is going on in it. Unless you mean 
the practical engineering choices made to create an affordable product 
with enough quality to satisfy the target market. I like what I see so 
far (but that could change when I get hold of one :-).



and therefore losing the mass market that their
product has to be based on.


I read your "it's the economy, stupid" argument. Now there's a market. 
Hallelujah. Consumers of the world, praise secrecy.

My point is that all the hardware is available to build an Ambisonics microphone, there's 
no fundamental research to be done (at least for a simple FOA microphone), and Ambisonics 
is patent free. That's exactly why Zoom was able to create a new consumer product. 
There's probably more plastic than anything else in this microphone. It will good enough, 
and a lot of fun to use, but still... The missing "soft" part is calibration...


The new Zoom H3V can record A-format, that is, the signals coming 
directly from the capsules. That means that you can calibrate it[*], and 
use an external encoder to convert A format to B format. The B format 
performance will be determined by the quality of the calibration 
measurements and the algorithm (and tradeofs) of the calibration process.


A custom calibration can compensate for gain mismatches between 
capsules, frequency response of the capsules, and to some degree 
mechanical inaccuracies, but not polar pattern mismatches of the capsules.


You of course cannot improve the raw signal to noise ratio of the 
capsules and preamps themselves (and of course the raw frequency 
response), but judging from previous Zoom products (I have used the H2N) 
those numbers should be acceptable.


I'm looking forward to buying one and putting it through my measuring 
and calibration procedures. I will be able to do "before" and "after" 
plots of all the parameters... :-)


-- Fernando

[*] the specs I read so far are a bit unclear regarding the USB audio 
interface behavior, apparently you can send to the computer all four 
signals (but which ones? can you send A-format?) but it is not clear if 
you can, at the same time, send from the computer to, say, the line 
outputs. If that is the case it would make calibration much simpler 
(otherwise the playback equipment and recording equipment are not sample 
rate locked and the mismatch has to be compensated for, something I was 
doing for calibrating my SpHEAR FrankenMic, an H2N with an external 
"correct" tetrahedral capsule array).


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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Fernando Lopez-Lezcano]

On 09/15/2018 05:59 AM, Marc Lavallée wrote:

Le 15/09/2018 à 06:19, Eero Aro a écrit :


David Pickett wrote:


This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money
you dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of
capsule matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all of
which determine its potential value as a professional tool.


For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone
for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure!


What I'm still waiting for is a free (as in speech) Ambisonics
microphone like the ones being developed by the SpHEAR project:
https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/

I want something affordable, that I can build, fix and calibrate myself,
without two PhDs and access to a nuclear-powered anechoic chamber. I
want a modest gear and enough knowledge.


Yup, what I wanted as well, and one of the reasons I started the 
project. The current generation of microphones in the SpHEAR world (four 
and eight capsule designs so far) is sort of "feature complete", 
including a fairly decent calibration procedure (or so I think).


The current status of the project is reflected in this recent paper 
(AES, not public, sorry, contact me if you don't have access):


The *SpHEAR Project Update: The TinySpHEAR and Octathingy Soundfield 
Microphones

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19682

(the actual SpHEAR project git repository web front page is very 
outdated, sorry, and I have not had time to push the latest updates)



In the meanwhile, I could get
an H3 (or some other affordable "solution"), but like David I want the
numbers. So its a call to all experts who are still reading Sursound;
collaborate to the SpHEAR project and make us capable of building a
decent Ambisonics microphone. I know it will happen, ...


It is possible to do that now. But as I say in another post of this 
thread, building one is not "cheap", if you count labor[*], and (not 
enough time as always) the instructions are not complete. On the other 
hand, the knowledge gained in building and understanding one is 
something you cannot buy...


-- Fernando

[*] find and buy all components, 3d print all parts, make or order PCBs, 
assemble printed circuit boards (you need pretty good soldering skills), 
connect everything together (again, good manual dexterity), find a space 
for doing the calibration measurements, make _good_ calibration 
measurements (not trivial, needs skill, good speaker and reference 
microphone), run the calibration software and check results for sanity, 
etc, etc... Not what you would call "cheap", but the end result is 
pretty good.

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Not to be a sour puss, but doing open source stuff and not updating the
documention is something a lot of us are guilty off...

This is a really a sad state off affairs, and many man hours can be saved
of we guilty ones made the effort :-)

In some cases the code is updated but you can only find information on how
the first feature starved version worked.

So take your time and make the effort to do the documentation...

My only github project OHTI, open headtracker will soon be updated due to
information I have recently found out.
The fixes I have searched for have actually been implemented for quite a
while, but info about that has been impossible to find using Google
searches.
So I had to get the info directly from the developer.


Bo-Erik


On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:17 Fernando Lopez-Lezcano, 
wrote:

> On 09/15/2018 05:59 AM, Marc Lavallée wrote:
> > Le 15/09/2018 à 06:19, Eero Aro a écrit :
> >
> >> David Pickett wrote:
> >>
> >>> This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money
> >>> you dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of
> >>> capsule matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all of
> >>> which determine its potential value as a professional tool.
> >>
> >> For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone
> >> for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure!
> >
> > What I'm still waiting for is a free (as in speech) Ambisonics
> > microphone like the ones being developed by the SpHEAR project:
> > https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/
> >
> > I want something affordable, that I can build, fix and calibrate myself,
> > without two PhDs and access to a nuclear-powered anechoic chamber. I
> > want a modest gear and enough knowledge.
>
> Yup, what I wanted as well, and one of the reasons I started the
> project. The current generation of microphones in the SpHEAR world (four
> and eight capsule designs so far) is sort of "feature complete",
> including a fairly decent calibration procedure (or so I think).
>
> The current status of the project is reflected in this recent paper
> (AES, not public, sorry, contact me if you don't have access):
>
> The *SpHEAR Project Update: The TinySpHEAR and Octathingy Soundfield
> Microphones
> http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19682
>
> (the actual SpHEAR project git repository web front page is very
> outdated, sorry, and I have not had time to push the latest updates)
>
> >In the meanwhile, I could get
> > an H3 (or some other affordable "solution"), but like David I want the
> > numbers. So its a call to all experts who are still reading Sursound;
> > collaborate to the SpHEAR project and make us capable of building a
> > decent Ambisonics microphone. I know it will happen, ...
>
> It is possible to do that now. But as I say in another post of this
> thread, building one is not "cheap", if you count labor[*], and (not
> enough time as always) the instructions are not complete. On the other
> hand, the knowledge gained in building and understanding one is
> something you cannot buy...
>
> -- Fernando
>
> [*] find and buy all components, 3d print all parts, make or order PCBs,
> assemble printed circuit boards (you need pretty good soldering skills),
> connect everything together (again, good manual dexterity), find a space
> for doing the calibration measurements, make _good_ calibration
> measurements (not trivial, needs skill, good speaker and reference
> microphone), run the calibration software and check results for sanity,
> etc, etc... Not what you would call "cheap", but the end result is
> pretty good.
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> >
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 15.09.18 um 19:44 schrieb Fernando Lopez-Lezcano:

I'm looking forward to buying one and putting it through my measuring 
and calibration procedures. 


Also, it will be interesting to see if for once they really have 
included a useful limiter, i.e. one working ahead of the A/D converter, 
or if its again just a digital 'effect' reducing the level of the 
squarewave from the overdriven converter in the digital domain.


Ralf

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Steven Boardman]

Their limiter doesn't work like that Ralf. It's a hybrid type. If its
enabled the analog record attenuated by 12db, but compensated by a 12db
gain digitally. When the signal hits the limiter, the digital gain
compensation is removed. Leaving the adc un clipped. Its not as good as
limiters solely in the analog domain, but a good compromise. If recording
24bit this isn't to much of a problem. Especially on the f8 as you can use
the other 4 preamps to record at a different level.

My take on all this, is the more the merrier.
Having an all in one small unit, however non professional is great. I have
a twirling720 lite, which works with my phone. I have it on me all the
time. Not exactly professional standard, but some of the sounds i have
recorded, would not of happened if it was pro gear.
I just wouldn't risk losing it. Its cheap and Its small, and i always have
my phone anyway...

Best

Steve

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018, 19:53 Ralf R Radermacher,  wrote:

> Am 15.09.18 um 19:44 schrieb Fernando Lopez-Lezcano:
>
> > I'm looking forward to buying one and putting it through my measuring
> > and calibration procedures.
>
> Also, it will be interesting to see if for once they really have
> included a useful limiter, i.e. one working ahead of the A/D converter,
> or if its again just a digital 'effect' reducing the level of the
> squarewave from the overdriven converter in the digital domain.
>
> Ralf
>
> --
> Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
> Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
> Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
> Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 15.09.18 um 20:45 schrieb Bo-Erik Sandholm:


My only github project OHTI, open headtracker will soon be updated due to
information I have recently found out.


Is there a link to this project? A quick Google search hasn't returned 
anything.


Ralf

--
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 15.09.18 um 21:11 schrieb Steven Boardman:
Their limiter doesn't work like that Ralf. 


It does in the H2, H4 and H4n. Purely digital and behind the A/D 
converter. They call it a digital 'effect'.


Zoom have a rich history with such stunts. Shortly after the 
introduction of the H4n, some particularly loud metal musicians 
complained that even in the lowest level setting it would still be 
distorting.


A new firmware release brought the additional mic level settings 0.1 to 
0.9 with a downward extension of the control range by 24 dB. A quick 
check on the test bench revealed that they just reduced the level in the 
digital domain. The recorded signal was still flat-topping, with the 
level meters at -24 dB, while the input select buttons were flashing 
furiously to indicate the overload at the AD converter.


Having an all in one small unit, however non professional is great. 


I'll certainly agree with that, although cum grano salis, as usual with 
Zoom. Having said this, I have a few hundred audio recordings I would 
never have made if it weren't for the ease and simplicity of the Zooms.


Ralf

--
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Marc Lavallée]

Le 15/09/2018 à 14:17, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano a écrit :

[*] find and buy all components, 3d print all parts, make or order 
PCBs, assemble printed circuit boards (you need pretty good soldering 
skills), connect everything together (again, good manual dexterity), 
find a space for doing the calibration measurements, make _good_ 
calibration measurements (not trivial, needs skill, good speaker and 
reference microphone), run the calibration software and check results 
for sanity, etc, etc... Not what you would call "cheap", but the end 
result is pretty good.


Imagine the Zoom H3, ready to use, but with complete specs and 
schematics, a calibration file and a documented calibration procedure, 
for $100 more. Ir would be a commercial success.


Marc

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[David Pickett]

At 03:07 16-09-18, Marc Lavallée wrote:


Le 15/09/2018 à 14:17, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano a écrit :

[*] find and buy all components, 3d print all 
parts, make or order PCBs, assemble printed 
circuit boards (you need pretty good soldering 
skills), connect everything together (again, 
good manual dexterity), find a space for doing 
the calibration measurements, make _good_ 
calibration measurements (not trivial, needs 
skill, good speaker and reference microphone), 
run the calibration software and check results 
for sanity, etc, etc... Not what you would call 
"cheap", but the end result is pretty good.


Imagine the Zoom H3, ready to use, but with 
complete specs and schematics, a calibration 
file and a documented calibration procedure, for 
$100 more. Ir would be a commercial success.


In my view it is a question of taking the 
purchaser seriously and treating him/her with 
respect. If you buy loudspeakers, a pair of 
headphones, amplifiers, A/D-D/A convertors, an 
analog turntable, a pickup cartridge -- or 
anything for home audio that is intended to be of 
high quality -- you can read full specifications before you buy.


I see no reason why these should not be a part of 
the product offering in the case of a surround 
microphone. It is not a question of giving away trade secrets.


And I dont think their addition would justify an additional cost of €/$100

David

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 16.09.18 um 03:07 schrieb Marc Lavallée:

Imagine the Zoom H3, ready to use, but with complete specs and 
schematics, a calibration file and a documented calibration procedure, 
for $100 more. Ir would be a commercial success.


Methinks their marketing department know quite well what they're doing. 
I could come up with a dozen things they could have done better or 
differently with their other portable recorders. Still, they're selling 
like hot cakes. There's something like a sweet spot for pricing if 
you're targeting the non-pro consumer market.


I for one can't wait to spend 350 USD on the H3 but I'd think twice at 
450. Seriously, how many people care about numerical specs, apart from a 
handful of freaks on this list?


Ralf

--
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Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Eero Aro]

Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

Methinks their marketing department know quite well what they're doing. 
I could come up with a dozen things they could have done better or 
differently with their other portable recorders. Still, they're selling 
like hot cakes. There's something like a sweet spot for pricing if 
you're targeting the non-pro consumer market.


I for one can't wait to spend 350 USD on the H3 but I'd think twice at 
450. Seriously, how many people care about numerical specs, apart from a 
handful of freaks on this list?


Ralf


Exactly my thoughts as well. Thank you Ralf for saving me for the need to
write it.

Eero
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Drew Kirkland]

L

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 10:45 Eero Aro,  wrote:

> Ralf R Radermacher wrote:
>
> > Methinks their marketing department know quite well what they're doing.
> > I could come up with a dozen things they could have done better or
> > differently with their other portable recorders. Still, they're selling
> > like hot cakes. There's something like a sweet spot for pricing if
> > you're targeting the non-pro consumer market.
> >
> > I for one can't wait to spend 350 USD on the H3 but I'd think twice at
> > 450. Seriously, how many people care about numerical specs, apart from a
> > handful of freaks on this list?
> >
> > Ralf
>
> Exactly my thoughts as well. Thank you Ralf for saving me for the need to
> write it.
>
> Eero
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-- 





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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Drew Kirkland]

I think maybe that's a bit harsh, I know what you mean but due to a lax
attitude in audio we now have a dynamic free industry, apart from a couple
of major players the whole industry is relying on compression and
electronics rather than design and good engineering.
This is the legacy of mp3 and poor quality teaching within the industry as
a whole. It is something that has gradually become endemic, most engineers
under 40 have had limited access to true anolog source and playback
equipment and very few in my experience have an lp collection where
dynamics are an integral part of the recording.
It's been a situation the industry has kind of sleepwalked into. So I think
it important we keep the "freeks" on board

Drew

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 10:47 Drew Kirkland,  wrote:

> L
>
> On Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 10:45 Eero Aro,  wrote:
>
>> Ralf R Radermacher wrote:
>>
>> > Methinks their marketing department know quite well what they're doing.
>> > I could come up with a dozen things they could have done better or
>> > differently with their other portable recorders. Still, they're selling
>> > like hot cakes. There's something like a sweet spot for pricing if
>> > you're targeting the non-pro consumer market.
>> >
>> > I for one can't wait to spend 350 USD on the H3 but I'd think twice at
>> > 450. Seriously, how many people care about numerical specs, apart from
>> a
>> > handful of freaks on this list?
>> >
>> > Ralf
>>
>> Exactly my thoughts as well. Thank you Ralf for saving me for the need to
>> write it.
>>
>> Eero
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> --
>
>
>
>
>
> Drew Kirkland
> 1 campbleton cottage
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Drew Kirkland
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[David Pickett]

At 11:31 16-09-18, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:


Am 16.09.18 um 03:07 schrieb Marc Lavallée:

Imagine the Zoom H3, ready to use, but with 
complete specs and schematics, a calibration 
file and a documented calibration procedure, 
for $100 more. Ir would be a commercial success.


Methinks their marketing department know quite 
well what they're doing. I could come up with a 
dozen things they could have done better or 
differently with their other portable recorders. 
Still, they're selling like hot cakes. There's 
something like a sweet spot for pricing if 
you're targeting the non-pro consumer market.


I for one can't wait to spend 350 USD on the H3 
but I'd think twice at 450. Seriously, how many 
people care about numerical specs, apart from a handful of freaks on this list?


More to the point, how many people (including 
those here) can actually play back Ambisonics at home -- minimally as 4.0?


David 


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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[David Pickett]

At 11:56 16-09-18, Drew Kirkland wrote:

>I think maybe that's a bit harsh, I know what you mean but due to a lax
>attitude in audio we now have a dynamic free industry, apart from a couple
>of major players the whole industry is relying on compression and
>electronics rather than design and good engineering.

Actually, it's largely the minor players who are keeping the flame 
alive: e.g. Pentatone, Tacet, 2L, etc, etc.


>This is the legacy of mp3 and poor quality teaching within the 
industry as a whole.


Unfortunately, most of the teaching bears no relationship to "the 
industry" and is done by people who have no inside experience of 
professional audio at the highest levels.


>It is something that has gradually become endemic, most engineers
>under 40 have had limited access to true anolog source and playback
>equipment and very few in my experience have an lp collection where
>dynamics are an integral part of the recording.

There is no excuse for this. The equipment is available on Ebay, etc, 
and LPs pressed in the 60s and 70s are available for peanuts. Almost 
every week I visit one of the several second hand record shops where 
I live and for 1-3 EUR per disc walk out with excellently recorded 
LPs in pristine condition, the sound of which rivals (and sometimes 
exceeds) the quality of CDs and hi-res files when played on my 
Thorens TD124 and Sumiko cartridge. This gear did not cost an arm and 
a leg to assemble. If you want to spend more, read Stereophile magazine!


David

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Paul Hodges]

-- At 11:31 16-09-18, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

> Seriously, how many 
> people care about numerical specs, apart from a handful of freaks on
> this list?

Not so many.  But I wonder to what extent the requirement for
calibration for good results is in any case being lessened by
improvements in consistency of mass-produced capsules.  Røde seem to
imply something about that under the heading of improvements in
manufacturing.

--On 16 September 2018 12:09 +0200 David Pickett  wrote:

> More to the point, how many people (including those here) can
> actually play back Ambisonics at home -- minimally as 4.0?

I have a permanent 4.0 setup.  Of course, I know various people with
irregularly arranged 5.1 setups - but they have no interest in audio.

Paul

-- 
Paul Hodges

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[umashankar manthravadi]

I match bulk purchased Chinese capsules for my Brahma Microphones and it has 
become increasingly easy to find sets of four matching for gain and front to 
back ratios.

But matching capsules is only one part of calibration.



umashankar



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Paul Hodges 

Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 4:56:28 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

-- At 11:31 16-09-18, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

> Seriously, how many
> people care about numerical specs, apart from a handful of freaks on
> this list?

Not so many.  But I wonder to what extent the requirement for
calibration for good results is in any case being lessened by
improvements in consistency of mass-produced capsules.  Røde seem to
imply something about that under the heading of improvements in
manufacturing.

--On 16 September 2018 12:09 +0200 David Pickett  wrote:

> More to the point, how many people (including those here) can
> actually play back Ambisonics at home -- minimally as 4.0?

I have a permanent 4.0 setup.  Of course, I know various people with
irregularly arranged 5.1 setups - but they have no interest in audio.

Paul

--
Paul Hodges

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 16.09.18 um 13:26 schrieb Paul Hodges:


But I wonder to what extent the requirement for
calibration for good results is in any case being lessened by
improvements in consistency of mass-produced capsules.  Røde seem to
imply something about that under the heading of improvements in
manufacturing.


There was a time when they sold matched stereo pairs of their 
microphones with a premium. That stopped a few years ago because, as 
they told me, there is no point in doing so anymore.


We have reached an age where automatic precision machining equipment 
enables a consistency that would have required highly skilled workers 
and a lot of testing and selecting, only a decade or two ago.


Ralf

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Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Steven Boardman]

Well i would rather be a 'freak' then!
Maybe leave those kind of comments for ones youtube trolling?

S

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 10:31 Ralf R Radermacher,  wrote:

> Am 16.09.18 um 03:07 schrieb Marc Lavallée:
>
> > Imagine the Zoom H3, ready to use, but with complete specs and
> > schematics, a calibration file and a documented calibration procedure,
> > for $100 more. Ir would be a commercial success.
>
> Methinks their marketing department know quite well what they're doing.
> I could come up with a dozen things they could have done better or
> differently with their other portable recorders. Still, they're selling
> like hot cakes. There's something like a sweet spot for pricing if
> you're targeting the non-pro consumer market.
>
> I for one can't wait to spend 350 USD on the H3 but I'd think twice at
> 450. Seriously, how many people care about numerical specs, apart from a
> handful of freaks on this list?
>
> Ralf
>
> --
> Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
> Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
> Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
> Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 16.09.18 um 14:47 schrieb Steven Boardman:

Well i would rather be a 'freak' then!


Nothing wrong with that. More often than not, I'm one myself. I just 
wouldn't expect a supplier targeting a mass market to cater for my 
quirks and oddities.


Ralf

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Eero Aro]

Ralf R Radermacher:
Nothing wrong with that. More often than not, I'm one myself. I just 
wouldn't expect a supplier targeting a mass market to cater for my 
quirks and oddities.


What hasn't been said in this thread, is that the H3-VR is clearly 
targeted to the
people who shoot 3D video with 3D video recorders in the matching price 
class.


If you look at the 3D or 360 videos in the Web, they have mono or two 
channel

stereo sound. Something is missing. You can turn the video image 360 degrees
around, but the sound orientation doesn't change at all with mono sound and
you don't get any kind of auditory cues about the directions. With stereo or
binaural sound it isn't much better, as the auditory cues don't match 
with the

picture dimensions, there is no front-to- back separation.

People who shoot the 360 video with three GoPro cameras are not the ones 
who invest

into a Sennheiser Ambeo for sound. They are the H3 buyers.

Eero
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Marc Lavallée]

Le 16/09/2018 à 05:45, Eero Aro a écrit :


Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

Methinks their marketing department know quite well what they're 
doing. I could come up with a dozen things they could have done 
better or differently with their other portable recorders. Still, 
they're selling like hot cakes. There's something like a sweet spot 
for pricing if you're targeting the non-pro consumer market.


I for one can't wait to spend 350 USD on the H3 but I'd think twice 
at 450. Seriously, how many people care about numerical specs, apart 
from a handful of freaks on this list?


Ralf


Exactly my thoughts as well. Thank you Ralf for saving me for the need to
write it.


I cut my hairs yesterday, but let me fly my freak flag high.

I care for decent and honest gear that I can afford and use without 
turning myself into a fake professional. It's not because I'm an 
hobbyist that I don't care about numbers; I was lucky enough to get some 
education, so I want to use my brain and not only my small wallet.


I bought a Twirling720 Lite for less than $200 and it's basically a toy; 
its only value (to me) is that I can hack into it (after some reverse 
engineering and a bit of programming), hoping that I can make it into a 
usable microphone. But I probably won't, because I don't know how to 
calibrate a microphone. I need someone to do it for me, and it's ok, but 
I also like to consider that I could do it myself; this quality is part 
of the value. It seems that an Ambisonics microphone is like a piano; 
tuning it is part of the deal. It could be that non-calibrated and/or 
MEM-based "solutions" can work just fine for many years, but I'm a freak...


My options to get a non-MEMs Ambisonics microphone are: Tetramic, RØDE 
NT-SF1, Ambeo, Brahma, Twirling720, Zoom H3, I like the self-contained 
"products" that don't require to carry and operate a bulky external (and 
expensive) recorder with XLR connectors and wires, like the Brahma, the 
Twirling720 and the Zoom H3.


I always read that calibrating an Ambisonics microphone is precisely 
what makes it Ambisonics. So why, oh why, because there's now a VR 
market, it would no longer be the case?


Le 16/09/2018 à 09:11, Ralf R Radermacher a écrit :


Am 16.09.18 um 14:47 schrieb Steven Boardman:

Well i would rather be a 'freak' then!


Nothing wrong with that. More often than not, I'm one myself. I just 
wouldn't expect a supplier targeting a mass market to cater for my 
quirks and oddities.


Is Zoom only in for the money? How much of their production will end 
floating in the Great Pacific garbage patch (like GoPros)?


Marc



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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 16.09.18 um 15:52 schrieb Marc Lavallée:


I cut my hairs yesterday, but let me fly my freak flag high.


Welcome to the Ambisonic freak show, then. :-)

I always read that calibrating an Ambisonics microphone is precisely 
what makes it Ambisonics.
I've just had a look on Rode's website and can't find the slightest hint 
about calibration for their NT-SF1. Is there anyone who owns and and can 
enlighten us?


Is Zoom only in for the money? 


Sure. Like it or not, but that's capitalism.

Ralf

--
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Marc Lavallée]

Le 16/09/2018 à 12:45, Ralf R Radermacher a écrit :


Am 16.09.18 um 15:52 schrieb Marc Lavallée:
I always read that calibrating an Ambisonics microphone is precisely 
what makes it Ambisonics.
I've just had a look on Rode's website and can't find the slightest 
hint about calibration for their NT-SF1. Is there anyone who owns and 
and can enlighten us?


In a ideal world, the custom TF-45C capsule could be so good that a 
generic calibration is enough, and so stable that no further calibration 
is needed.


Is Zoom only in for the money? 

Sure. Like it or not, but that's capitalism.


Zoom have a good reputation. Fernando will hopefully tell us more about 
the H3 after he tries to calibrate it (and compare it with the default 
calibration). If the H3 can be calibrated, it could be an excellent 
choice. Also, like the Brahma, the H3 could be used to create a better 
microphone (with larger, better and quieter capsules).


There's hope. No need to use the c word... :-)

Marc

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR anyone?

[Axel Drioli]

There is no plugin for it right? Only standalone.

Can't seem to find it.
On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 at 17:20, Courville, Daniel 
wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> Use the Zoom software for A to B-Format conversion.
>
> Once in B-Format, the choices are numerous. For 1st order to binaural
> decoding, there's Harpex, of course. https://harpex.net
>
> But also have a look at the IEM plug-ins https://plugins.iem.at
>
> And the AALTO SPARTA plug-ins
> http://research.spa.aalto.fi/projects/sparta_vsts/
>
> Harpex and the binaural decoder in the SPARTA suite can load SOFA files.
> The IEM suite will soon include a binaural decoder that can also load SOFA
> files.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Daniel
>
>
> Le 18-11-18 12:00
>
> The sound seems OK but the post-processing software from the Zoom
> website is nothing to write home about. Essential features like level
> control and normalising are lacking and I'm not too happy with the
> conversion to Binaural.
>
> So, if anyone has suggestions for better Mac ambisonics software or
> plugins I'd love to hear from you.
>
>
>
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-- 
*Axel Drioli *

*Immersive Audio Designer and Producer for 360 Video, VR and Installations*

*'The Journey'* , 360 documentary which I
provided the full immersive audio production, *has won the **61st CINE
Golden Eagle Award  *for best *'Virtual
Reality / Documentary Short'*


*Tel-Facetime: +44 7460 223640 *
*Skype: axel.drioli*
*Website: *
*axeldrioli.com *
*E-mail: 3dso...@axeldrioli.com <3dso...@axeldrioli.com>*


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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR anyone?

[Joseph Anderson]

Hi Ralf,

You could also try using the Ambisonic Toolkit




*Dr Joseph Anderson | Research Scientist*

DXARTS, Box 353414

University of Washington

Seattle, WA 98195-3680



http://www.dxarts.washington.edu


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On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 12:08 PM Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:

> The Zoom H3-VR has hit the shops in Europe and I got mine a good week
> ago. All ok, so far, with the exception of a harmless bug (file date 8
> hours earlier than real time clock) and a mechanical prob (slightly
> wobbly fixing of the mics causing noise under some circumstances).
>
> Haven't had time for much testing with the exception of a few short
> takes outside in street traffic and some railway noises last night.
>
> Above all: The remote control by iPhone app is absolutely brilliant.
> I'll never buy a recorder without it again.
>
> The sound seems OK but the post-processing software from the Zoom
> website is nothing to write home about. Essential features like level
> control and normalising are lacking and I'm not too happy with the
> conversion to Binaural.
>
> So, if anyone has suggestions for better Mac ambisonics software or
> plugins I'd love to hear from you.
>
> Ralf
>
> --
> Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
> Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
> Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
> Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR anyone?

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 17.11.18 um 21:07 schrieb Ralf R Radermacher:


...a mechanical prob (slightly
wobbly fixing of the mics causing noise under some circumstances).


I've spoken to Zoom's German importers on the phone. They've done their 
own tests and confirm the looseness and the rattling of the mic 
assembly. No, they say, this isn't a serial defect. It's meant to be 
like this and if it causes problems e.g. when recording in a moving 
vehicle then the H3 is just not suited for this particular application.


They suggest trying to fix the problem with a bit of adhesive tape.

Draw your own conclusions...

Ralf

--
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR anyone?

[Eero Aro]

Ralf R Radermacher wrote:


Draw your own conclusions...


I drew mine. I've sent the Zoom H3 VR back to where I bought it from.

I'll wait till Zoom gets the faults fixed. I am not very eager on fixing 
a new product

that has just come from the production line. Nor am I interested to void the
guarantee by glueing the mic myself.

The joint in the plastic bar supporting the mic capsules holder is a 
tiny bit loose.
It rotates just slightly, but enough to cause a clonking sound when the 
mic is moved
and it is in a certain orientation. Zoom advertises the mic to be used 
with 3D video
cameras. These cameras are mostly used in motion, but the mic will 
create noises

if it is moved.

Otherwise, during some short test recordings I noticed that the H3 VR 
isn't too bad.
It's lightweight and handy. Almost too lightweight, it feels like a toy. 
The buttons
and the Menu structure are similar to previous Zooms, so H3 was easy for 
me to use.


The self noise is quite low, I liked it.

Strangely, no possibility to drop Markers into the recording without 
pausing the

recording. You can add audible tone markers without pausing.

The foam windshield isn't any good for outside recordings, get the furry 
shield.

The body of the recorder would also need some weather protection, there's
several small slots where the rainwater can get inside.

Eero


http://www.tonfiks.fi
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR: new Facebook users' group

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 21.08.19 um 23:15 schrieb Courville, Daniel:


I've started a new Facebook users' group dedicated to the Zoom H3-VR


On Facebook. Pity, really.

Ralf

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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR: new Facebook users' group

[Jack Reynolds]

Where else?

Sent from my iPhone

> On 21 Aug 2019, at 22:31, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
>> Am 21.08.19 um 23:15 schrieb Courville, Daniel:
>> 
>> I've started a new Facebook users' group dedicated to the Zoom H3-VR
> 
> On Facebook. Pity, really.
> 
> Ralf
> 
> --
> Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
> Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
> Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
> Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR: new Facebook users' group

[Marc Lavallée]

Le 19-08-21 à 18 h 01, Jack Reynolds a écrit :

> Where else?

For non-FB users, there's http://zoomforum.us/

(thanks to Daniel for the link).

Marc

>> On 21 Aug 2019, at 22:31, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
>>
>>> Am 21.08.19 um 23:15 schrieb Courville, Daniel:
>>>
>>> I've started a new Facebook users' group dedicated to the Zoom H3-VR
>> On Facebook. Pity, really.
>>
>> Ralf
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR: new Facebook users' group

[Peter P.]

* Jack Reynolds  [2019-08-22 00:02]:
> Where else?
On the world wide web with access and archival for everyone without
sacrificing privacy and possible even democracy [1][2][3][4]. Eg. web forums,
mailing lists, etc. See https://degooglisons-internet.org/en/list for
examples.

> Sent from my iPhone
Excellent!

Good luck!
Peter

[1] 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections#Social_media_and_Internet_trolls
[2] 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Analytica_data_scandal
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Privacy
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Political_manipulation


 
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR: new Facebook users' group

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

A real forum is better than facebook to follow subjects also to search in
and find previous discussions.

At least in my opinion.

I personally find it hard to go back/search and find previous seen messages
in the ambisonics sound related  facebook groups.

I think facebook is most suitable for instant gratification.

Bo-Erik




Den tor 22 aug. 2019 00:16Peter P.  skrev:

> * Jack Reynolds  [2019-08-22 00:02]:
> > Where else?
> On the world wide web with access and archival for everyone without
> sacrificing privacy and possible even democracy [1][2][3][4]. Eg. web
> forums,
> mailing lists, etc. See https://degooglisons-internet.org/en/list for
> examples.
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
> Excellent!
>
> Good luck!
> Peter
>
> [1]
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections#Social_media_and_Internet_trolls
> [2]
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Analytica_data_scandal
> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Privacy
> [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Political_manipulation
>
>
>
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR: new Facebook users' group

[Eero Aro]

Have new Zoom H3:s stopped clonking when you move the microphone?
I tried one and returned it to the shop.

If it hasn't, it's still not yet the device for me.

Eero
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR: new Facebook users' group

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 22.08.19 um 10:02 schrieb Bo-Erik Sandholm:

A real forum is better than facebook to follow subjects also to search in
and find previous discussions.


I'm a member of a discussion group on a totally unrelated topic that
runs on groups.io.

https://groups.io

Works like a charm.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR: new Facebook users' group

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 22.08.19 um 10:12 schrieb Eero Aro:

Have new Zoom H3:s stopped clonking when you move the microphone?
I tried one and returned it to the shop.


Not to my knowledge.


If it hasn't, it's still not yet the device for me.


Mine has been cured for good with a single drop of superglue. If you
fear for the warranty you could always try a bit of hot glue - the soft
variety that could be peeled off again if needed.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
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