Re: [biofuel] Washing BD
I know this is extreme, but I use a diving cylinder for aeration. If you know of a dive shop, I'm sure they could help out with a regulator and cylinder. A 12 litre cylinder charged to 200 bar gives approx 15 hours of washing. A fill costs around £1.50 here in uk. Diving air is free of any contaminants too. Ian - Original Message - From: Dana Linscott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Washing BD > I would suggest that an inline pressure accummulator > tank and a valve to your aerator stone would be a wise > move if you are using a fridge compressor since they > are not designed to run continuously. Also, since they > are free it may also be wise to hook up several to a > "manifold" leading to the tank. It is then a simple > matter to hook a pressure cutoff switch to the tnak > and use it to control the compressors on/off cycles. > Iff one poops out (and you notice) replace it with a > spare. We used small dia. rubber hose slipped over the > outlet tubes and secured with hose clamps connected > together with inexpensive plastic "tees". > > Dana > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Those hermetically sealed fridge compressor are not > > that suitable. Their > > motor windings insulation are meant for gas cooled > > and not air cooled. > > Therefore the compressor need to run constantly and > > cannot be cycled( by > > pressurestat) > . > > > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol vs. Methanol
Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol vs. Methanol Denatured means adding methanol to ethanol (10% I think) thus rendering it undrinkable. I don't know if it is anhydrous. But if not sealed tightly it becomes hydrous quickly (EtOH being very hygroscopic as is Sodium Hydroxide).Denatured alcohol would be okay to use because it is both kinds of alcohol, but you will have to account for the less EtOH in the mixture when using the ethyl esther formula. It will produce both methyl and ethyl esthers. Joe denatured. is that 200 proof, and does the denaturing agent affect biodiesel production? Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 2:22 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol vs. Methanol > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >Really, though, now that we know that ethanol is available why are > we > > >bothering with methanol? I find myself learning with methanol and > then > > >having to switch to ethanol for environmental advantage. > > > > > >Mike B > > > > Cost, cost, cost. I pay $3.00 a gallon for methanol in small > quantities, > > others are paying much less. I can't even make my own anhydrous > > ethanol for less than $10 a gallon, and buying it from a commercial > > producer puts you over $50 a gallon with all the tax. >-K > > > That's odd. Where do you live? I can buy denatured ethanol at my > local hardware store for about $7 a gallon (?) I think (I'm trying to > remember the exact price). There is no liquor tax on denatured > ethanol, since you can't drink it. > > David > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite
Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite >According to companies who are listed on the web, zeolite 3A will absorb 30 to 40% of its weight in water. I have read that 3A stands for 3 angstrums(spelling) and as I understand water molecues are bigger than that, it also will allow ethanol to pass right through but trapping the water. But, how much zeolite do you need to filter a gallon of ethanol to make it anhydrous. I don't know. Maybe one of our chemistry majors can help us with that. Anyone? Regards, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite Angstroms. How much Zeolite you need depends on how much water is in the EtOH. A liter of 95% EtOH will have about 50g of H2O in it, so about 150 grams of Zeolite will adsorb that water before needing to be regenerated. Joe > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Crash & Burn was Re: [biofuel] economy of scale Re: Digest # 491 + ethanol pricing.
> Can we call it slash and burn when they use D9's? Crash and burn would be more appropriate. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Residual oil in BD.
> I had significant foaming problems with the bubble wash in both cases. > How much unprocessed oil are other experimenters finding in the final > product and how much is too much? > Regards from Harry .. If you have any residual oil in the ester, you will have mono and di-glycerides as well. These two components are superior emulsifiers. (Read the back of almost any semi-liquid food product such as mayonaise.) This will become evident as you perform your wash stages. If the volume of incomplete reaction is even 1 or 2% mono and di-glycerides, you can end up with a white "mayonaise" that takes forever to seperate and in some instances never will completely. This emulsified layer contains soap, biodiesel, the mono and di-glycerides and any unreacted oil that may remain. We're working on a simple process for correcting such an error when made. But there are only so many hours in the day. Best way to keep it from occuring is to ensure yourself enough mixing time. The larger the container, the greater the time needed. 24 hours is not unheard of. Mind you, this need for increased agitation is why people continue to state that the reaction phase should have "much splashing." Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Ethanol vs. Methanol
Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: RE: [biofuel] Ethanol vs. Methanol Here where? Joe >Funny, I've priced 200% ethanol here at around $.80 liter. >What gives? I better double check my sources. >Mike > -Original Message- > From: Ken Provost [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:23 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [biofuel] Ethanol vs. Methanol > > > > > >Really, though, now that we know that ethanol is available why are we > >bothering with methanol? I find myself learning with methanol and then > >having to switch to ethanol for environmental advantage. > > > >Mike B > > Cost, cost, cost. I pay $3.00 a gallon for methanol in small quantities, > others are paying much less. I can't even make my own anhydrous > ethanol for less than $10 a gallon, and buying it from a commercial > producer puts you over $50 a gallon with all the tax. -K > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] re Jeff - newbie
Hi Jeff have a look at http://www.veggiepower.org.uk . It contains a few examples of different mixers. I'm sure yours will be different again. If you take any photos I'd like to include them on the site. Simon Wells Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Operators
An scheme of the Fuel Operators in Spain ( like you said about know the energy market in the another countries ). http://www.cincodias.es/rcs/_imagenes//Aldia/2001/junio/07junio/p18.gif Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] what is the best source of raw material for producing biodiesel...
Hi to all, I have an economic problem: Observing the prices of different oils on Agro Exchange (e.g in Rotterdam) I found that different oils have different prices: For example: Rapeseed oil: cost 430 Euro/tonne Coconut oil:230 Euro/tonne Soyebean oil: 355 Euro/tonne Which means that the best source for biodiesel should be the cheapest oil. It is really the case ? What are differences (if any) of biodiesels produced from different oils ??? Can anyone from the group attempt to address this issue , please ? jan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] what is the best source of raw material for producing biodiesel...
Hi to all, I have an economic problem: Observing the prices of different oils on Agro Exchange (e.g in Rotterdam) I found that different oils have different prices: For example: Rapeseed oil: cost 430 Euro/tonne Coconut oil:230 Euro/tonne Soyebean oil: 355 Euro/tonne Which means that the best source for biodiesel should be the cheapest oil. It is really the case ? What are differences (if any) of biodiesels produced from different oils ??? Can anyone from the group attempt to address this issue , please ? jan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol vs. Methanol
denatured. is that 200 proof, and does the denaturing agent affect biodiesel production? Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 2:22 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol vs. Methanol > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >Really, though, now that we know that ethanol is available why are > we > > >bothering with methanol? I find myself learning with methanol and > then > > >having to switch to ethanol for environmental advantage. > > > > > >Mike B > > > > Cost, cost, cost. I pay $3.00 a gallon for methanol in small > quantities, > > others are paying much less. I can't even make my own anhydrous > > ethanol for less than $10 a gallon, and buying it from a commercial > > producer puts you over $50 a gallon with all the tax. >-K > > > That's odd. Where do you live? I can buy denatured ethanol at my > local hardware store for about $7 a gallon (?) I think (I'm trying to > remember the exact price). There is no liquor tax on denatured > ethanol, since you can't drink it. > > David > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] I'm a Newbie!!
Jeff, Use as a start lecture that can be read at: www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html there you will find the chapter : Biodiesel from waste oil jan surwka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Hydrogenated vegetable fat
Hi All Anybody know anything about Hydrogenated vegetable fat. I'm led to believe this is unusable. It might explain failures. Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Residual oil in BD.
- Original Message - > How much unprocessed oil are other experimenters finding in the final > product and how much is too much? > Regards from Harry Good question Harry. All efforts seem to be towards producing as much ester from the WVO as possible. At best the reaction conditions we are using convert only a fraction of the WVO to ester. ( Configure the ammount of methanol into the equation for the reaction and you will see what I mean). The reaction involves equilibrium and as with a lot of organic chemistry reactions is not as straightforward as an inorganic reaction. So we can't just add more methanol and expect more ester. Quite a lot of the WVO is unreacted and intact after processing. Transesterification produces less complex chemicals of lower viscosity and with better burning properties. They mix with the remaining WVO to produce a liquid which is more suitable for use as a diesel fuel than was the original WVO. Should we aim for the absolute maximum yield of esters? Or is this complicating the process too much and inviting problems. Could for instance WVO that is liquid at say 20 deg C be processed to a lesser extent than WVO which is solid at that temp and still be suitable? This would save processing time and cost (less methanol). Enough of my ravings for now. What does everyone else think? Regards, Paul > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Residual oil in BD.
I attempted to titrate to find how much unprocessed oil remained in my BD made from palm oil(I made two batches one two stage base and one foolproof method). I found that the BD after drying attained a PH of about 6. The titration results seemed to vary more from my various attempts to adjust the PH than from the expected reaction. The residual unreacted oil may be as high as 10%. I didn't seperate out much usable glycerol with the acid then base reaction compared with the base only reaction. It may have comer out in the wash. I had significant foaming problems with the bubble wash in both cases. How much unprocessed oil are other experimenters finding in the final product and how much is too much? Regards from Harry Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] economy of scale Re: Digest # 491 + ethanol pricing.
I don't want to get in this loop, far too entertaining, but: In Queensland's brigalow (nitrogen fixer)belt Farmers clear, and burn, say 100 acres then cultivate wheat for a couple of seasons, often to replace harvesters or other capital equipment. After a few seasons the water retention and fertility is such that wheat is not viable, then sheep are grazed (if wool has any value) or the land left to regenerate. (if it can in an arid environment) before it blows away. I would be kind if I said that the brigalow grows back and renews the soil for another cycle but the time factor is large. Can we call it slash and burn when they use D9's? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Ethanol vs. Methanol
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >Really, though, now that we know that ethanol is available why are we > >bothering with methanol? I find myself learning with methanol and then > >having to switch to ethanol for environmental advantage. > > > >Mike B > > Cost, cost, cost. I pay $3.00 a gallon for methanol in small quantities, > others are paying much less. I can't even make my own anhydrous > ethanol for less than $10 a gallon, and buying it from a commercial > producer puts you over $50 a gallon with all the tax. -K That's odd. Where do you live? I can buy denatured ethanol at my local hardware store for about $7 a gallon (?) I think (I'm trying to remember the exact price). There is no liquor tax on denatured ethanol, since you can't drink it. David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] economy of scale Re: Digest # 491 + ethanol pricing.
From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: rethinking economy of scale...Digest Number 491 *i knew it, i knew it !!! should learn to keep my mouth shut... ah, well, the harm is now done, so i guess i'll just have to add some more of my biogas to the fire...(:-D) I'm afraid you paint with far too broad a brush, very sweeping generalisations - true, but very far from the only thing that's true. There are far more than a billion subsistence farms, and the variety of circumstance is immense - do you really think you cover them all with what you've said? *keith, a broad subject usually requires a broad brush, if only for a first approximation. my comments are meant to cover those subsistence farmers who might be left out of a hypothetical mechanization scenario, either as individuals, or as a group. thus the one billion figure. and i accept that it's an approximation, as i'm sure you will also grant that there is no 'universal' data on this, given the varied parameters used to define small farming operations. *so i'm only talking small farmers that stand little chance of someday making use of ic energy. these are the rock bottom folks in the pyramid, and will remain there for as long as they continue to farm as they presently do. . *and while this happens, their surplus population will continue to flow into the cities, compounding the problem. >A couple of things to add. Biodiesel may or may not be feasible at the >individual small-peasant level >*or necessary, i might add... bullocks, mules, and such are known to have >little use for biodiesel, being programmed to run better on biomass. Indeed they do, and produce useful amounts of improved biomass in return. That's one option. There are many good projects dealing with this - animal traction, animal breeding, cart design, local road improvement, and of course biogas, and more. *very true. but the magnitude of income increase gained from these improved inputs is not enough to generate capital accumulation. *also, these improved methods of 'traditional' farming do not translate into greater market demand, which strongly affects capital accumulation. 'flat' or stagnant markets always translate into 'flat' or stagnant economic activity (fisher). more on this later. *a good example of this is 'first world' farming. the efficiency of the model improves yearly. but the market remains flat, and subsidies increase as efficiency increases just to keep the wheels turning. the small subsistence farmer does not have subsidies of any sort. as a matter of fact he often has to face subsidized outside competition. *you can become the world's most efficient farmer, but if the market's demand is elastic, your income will not improve accordingly. as you produce more, market prices will either remain stagnant, or go down. a good example of this are present palm oil prices. >*folks, i wish we'd get REAL on this. there's ~ one thousand million >subsistence farming operations going on in this planet, and none of them has >a tractor, or anything else that runs on biodiesel, cocokero, or whatever. Nonsense. Subsistence farms and subsistence farming communities run through just about the full range of energy profiles - from sweat and that's it all the way through every possible shade and combination to diesel generators etc etc. *yes, of course. the definitions are so elastic that they can be made to fit almost any model. but as i mentioned ut supra, i only mean to examine the situation of the bottom dwellers in the pyramid, who also happen to be the most numerous. Improving local energy options at any of these levels (except the economic vacuum cleaner at the top) can have a very positive ripple effect. *will making biodiesel, requiring at least two 'foreign' inputs, reduce present deforestation rates ? fifty percent of all energy is used to generate heat. a subsistence farmer uses wood for this. can biodiesel change this ? *we have list members in first world countries having a hard time finding methanol, yet we are assuming subsistence farmers will have access to this as well as naoh ? (and should they manage to brew their own ethanol, they'll soon find out there's more money in making booze than in making biofuels... and they won't have to dry it either, or worry about koh) Using renewable, locally available raw materials is always the best option - one of the few times you can say "always". *spoken like a true green !!! but unfortunately not so. we are no longer a world inhabited by 'prosumers' (toffler), for we have come to realize that strategic advantages exist that preclude this. an example would be a coconut farmer who buys most of his carbohydrates. his location/climate/labor can give him a better rate of exchange than he would have if he produced the carbohydrates himself. or vice versa. >*and they never will have either, if the farming scene continues to evade >the basic poor farmer's plight, which is lack of capital accumula
[biofuel] Re: zeolite - Digest Number 489
I read about using exactly that freezing process to increase the "proof" rating of alcoholic beverages. However, the book that mentioned this method said that it would only slightly increase the "proof" rating. It would not give you fuel-grade or whiskey- grade ethanol. Maybe that's why this freeze process is completely legal. David --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > we have made maple syrup using this method. > > Steve Spence > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: > http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm > > Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com > Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm > X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax > We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, > we borrow it from our children. > -- > > - Original Message - > From: "Dick Carlstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:49 AM > Subject: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 > > > > From: robert luis rabello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: zeolite > > > > I don't mean to be flip about this, but why don't the ethanol enthusiasts, > > or those using ethanol for biodiesel, simply leave their brew outdoors > > during a winter night? In the morning, remove the ice floating on top, > and > > the winter temperatures will have > > done the distilling for free! > > > > Anyone tried this? > > > > *brilliant lateral thinking, rabello !! i see no reason why it shouldn't > > work. will try it in my freezer soon as i can get my hand on some > hydroalky, > > don't have freezing weather these parts of the globe. > > > > *it's good, solid, practical ideas like these that put 'meat' in this > > list... > > > > *keep them coming, cheers, dick. > > > > " is a consummate art, reserved only for those with exquisite > > taste, and impeccable manners" R.G.C. > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] I'm a Newbie!!
Where are you Jeff? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Food vs Biodiesel production was Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
Increases in grain production by breeding, irrigation and fertiliser have got us ahead in capacity versus demand for the time being. Further increases are subject to diminished return on research dollars, in addition the funds for such research, more dams, better rural roads and other regional infrastructure are drying up because we are ahead. Oversupply will go away, just give it a little time. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Source Material Down the Drain...
http://interactive.wsj.com/archive/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/text/wsjie/data/SB9 91600980767316234.djm/&d2hconverter=display-d2h&NVP=&template=atlas-srch-sea rchrecent-nf.tmpl&form=atlas-srch-searchrecent-nf.html&from-and=AND&to-and=A ND&sort=Article-Doc-Date+desc&qand=&bool_query=sewer&dbname=%26name1%3Ddbnam e%26name2%3Ddbname%26name3%3Ddbname%3Bwsjie%26named%3Ddbname%26period%3D%3A7 20&location=article&HI= Link - hope it works. Page one. I have already suggested to the reporter the solution to this problem and heard back from him that a biodiesel story might be in the offing. A little more encouragement from others might speed the follow-up... Ed B. -- - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Source Material Down the Drain... > Hey, Andy, thanks! I ain't got no subscription and I was wanting to > see this one. Someone on another list said it was published in the > "ironic humour" column, do you know if that's right? > > Best > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Tokyo > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > >From the Wall Street Journal... > > > >June 4, 2001 > >Municipal Heart Attack: Illegal Dumping Of Fryer Grease, Fat Leads to > >Infarctions > > > >The Sewer-Fat Crisis Stirs a National Stink > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
By costed I meant included in the price. Because infrastructure is paid for by taxes, all business are subsidised to some extent, agriculture is probably the most subsidised ( no judgment). The brit figures are an excellent example. My wife is studying for a master in Sustainable Agriculture, I'm a little selective in what I read on the subject and so we often argue about such matters. I tutor OS students in critical reading (many are trained to believe everything that they read and suffer real trauma when presented with varying opinions in a lit. review) so I discard papers that do not have a stand alone logical development that fits the pattern I use for students. (I wouldn't read much of my own ravings) Anyway I accept that biodynamic, organic and non-genetically modified farming can be profitable on an investment/ return basis and indeed Oz would likely make more export dollars concentrating on these niche markets. If the premise that there is no more quality farmland to be had that can or rather may be used to increase production is valid then the tones/hectare becomes significant. In Oz we are being forced to retire land because of salinity. Porous alluvium over marine sediments-seems that the land near to the water is amongst the least suitable for irrigation. The irrigation farmers want the graziers to reforest the hills to lower the salt water tables, not that it would help unless the water use is minimised. Oz has many millions of hectares of flat volcanic clays that would not be subject to salinity, provided that they used good water. Of course there is no good water within cooee of the land in question. The point( there is one) is that in my experience there is no land suitable for agriculture that isn't in use and there are few sites left that combine water storage potential with suitable soils to facilitate multi-cropping. I expect this to be the situation world wide. Do you seriously believe that alternative agriculture can match the production of the industrialised systems and then increase production to meet increasing global demand? ( I allow the same level of subsidy that you demonstrate for the Brits). You have been long suffering and supportive - I owe you an explanation of my motivation.(with the associated risks involved with soul baring) Here our arguments are generally about the proportion of the natural resource that must be reserved for the rest of nature-habitat and species. The "environmentalists" that I "slag" are those who would, in this context, deny us the ability to improve the lot of the underprivileged, both here and globally. I do have reasons that make sense, to me at least. For a premise I would state that unless we can stabilise the world's human population, ecological sustainability is impossible, natural or non-Malthusian economics may eventually reduce human population by itself, however, I make the value judgment that the cost to the natural world would be unacceptable, indeed with 6 billion plus the effect could actually cause an extinction of humans as well as many other species and most natural habitats. Note that I once held the view that a series of "natural" population crashes should be allowed to reduce human population to a level from which we could "rebuild" sustainably. Without the ongoing "green revolution" this may have happened, but there was always going to be a maximum population size beyond which the ecological damage associated with population crashes could be tolerated. Is the 6 billion the magic maximum? Has my human conscience rejected the costs in human suffering associated with population crashes cut in? Indeed my perception of acceptable ecological damage may have changed. Only Lassie knows! Some one else can judge. The only projections that I am aware of, that show world population ultimately declining, involve an increase in the modal standard of living, globally. Particularly in terms of food security and education. I hope that my comments are generally consistent with a desire to achieve an improved global standard of living and, subsequently, population decline via a decreased birth rate. I am guilty of assuming that initiatives that may reduce productivity or the rate of increase of productivity are contrary to improving living standards and as such diminish from a sustainable future. A very few people are prepared to see a positive correlation between population size and global production and make the logical connection that limiting production will limit population. My line is that though this is probably true, to me it no longer leads to a sustainable future for the reasons that I outlined above. -The outcome is not worth the costs! Totally a value judgment? My students once wrote in a year book: "You cannot win an argument with Harry because when you present a sufficiently compelling case he changes sides." I hope that it's still true. Regards from Harry. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htm
Re: [biofuel] Nissan to develop new cars
>Singapore has gone into partnership with Diamler Chrysler on the fuel cell >car concept. The infrastructure for H2 filling stations would be set up. It >would be a few more years before everyone would be driving a fuel cell car. >Though the pollution would be coming from the main H2 plant. That's is >where all the carbon is coming from. >Lost the link on the above article. >Gerry Hi Gerry This one? http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=11011 Planet Ark Cars fouling Asian air but high-tech offers hope SINGAPORE: May 31, 2001 Lot of nonsense in that article, like "Hong Kong is ahead of the game... Bangkok has the best air quality". Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ >"steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 06/06/2001 06:21:12 PM > >Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com > >To: >cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group) >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Nissan to develop new cars > > > > >"Fuel-cell cars run on electricity produced by taking hydrogen >from a liquid such as methanol or gasoline, and combining it with >oxygen from air. They emit only water and heat as exhaust and have >become the focal point of research in an industry seeking cleaner >alternatives to the internal-combustion engine." > >Where did the carbon go? > >Steve Spence Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] I'm a Newbie!!
>I am new to the Bio fuel scene and enjoy lurking on this list. I have found >donut shops eager to be rid of their waste oil and really don't quite know >what to do next. I have extensive fabrication experience and am looking >forward to running my diesels on old donut squeezings. Any input would be >greatly appreciated. >Thanks, >Jeff E. Welcome Jeff! Everything you need to know: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels: Journey to Forever http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm Biofuel at WebConX Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Source Material Down the Drain...
Hey, Andy, thanks! I ain't got no subscription and I was wanting to see this one. Someone on another list said it was published in the "ironic humour" column, do you know if that's right? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ > >From the Wall Street Journal... > >June 4, 2001 >Municipal Heart Attack: Illegal Dumping Of Fryer Grease, Fat Leads to >Infarctions > >The Sewer-Fat Crisis Stirs a National Stink Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] "We don't need no..."
> No matter how you slice and dice it, 5% growth IS a simple exponential, > because that growth is at least implicitly compound (if linear, you have > to specify a base). And assuming a continued simple exponential growth > of ANYTHING is palpable nonsense. You can have a lot of fun > demonstrating that the Universe will be devoured in X years, but all > you're really demonstrating is that the model is invalid. > > No doubt the students will remember - I only hope they remember to > question! > > Marc de Piolenc ... Marc, I believe that if you have such serious contentions with Dr. Nering's teaching methodology and or motives, that you should express them to him. If you wish, I can scrounge up an address. But for now, he can be contacted through the mathematics department at Arizona State University. Todd Swearingen Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
Maybe it's a difference in cultures other than my own(no offence to anyone) and my sense of humor was a little short that day. Maybe there are more diesel folks out there than there are ethanolers. I'm just trying to find the most economical wat to make and dry ethanol. There is enough brain power on this web for us to find the info to accomplish what we need to know. My lack of education prevents me from carrying on a scientific conversation and it's very frustrating not to find the information I need to do what I want to do. Ahh, I feel better now. Thanks, Ron - Original Message - From: Mike Brownstone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 2:23 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 > Well, > > I think that the ethanol people would be the moonshine makers, whereas the > Biodiesel people would obviously be the more highly cultivated? > > Really, though, now that we know that ethanol is available why are we > bothering with methanol? I find myself learning with methanol and then > having to switch to ethanol for environmental advantage. > > Mike B > > > -Original Message- > > From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:24 AM > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 > > > > > > >Keith, > > >Do the biodiesel people just not want the ethanol people online. > > Things seem > > >to get rude at times. I am just trying to increase my knowledge base and > > >find a way to make my own fuel as cheap as is possible. > > >Thanks, > > >Ron Miller > > > > Hi Ron > > > > Sorry, I don't understand - what's rude? I think we all share your > > aims, or should. There's no division that I know of between biodiesel > > and ethanol people - I see it as the same subject. If there were a > > division I'd be very perturbed. Please explain? > > > > Best wishes > > > > Keith Addison > > Journey to Forever > > Handmade Projects > > Tokyo > > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > > > > >- Original Message - > > >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: > > >Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:55 AM > > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 > > > > > > > > > > >From: robert luis rabello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >Subject: Re: zeolite > > > > > > > > > >I don't mean to be flip about this, but why don't the ethanol > > >enthusiasts, > > > > >or those using ethanol for biodiesel, simply leave their > > brew outdoors > > > > >during a winter night? In the morning, remove the ice > > floating on top, > > >and > > > > >the winter temperatures will have > > > > >done the distilling for free! > > > > > > > > > >Anyone tried this? > > > > > > > > > >*brilliant lateral thinking, rabello !! i see no reason why > > it shouldn't > > > > >work. will try it in my freezer soon as i can get my hand on some > > >hydroalky, > > > > >don't have freezing weather these parts of the globe. > > > > > > > > Pint of beer in a PET bottle should do it. > > > > > > > > >*it's good, solid, practical ideas like these that put 'meat' in this > > > > >list... > > > > > > > > > >*keep them coming, cheers, dick. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >The ethanol acts as an antifreeze keeping the water from > > > > >freezing. Also the > > > > >spec. gravity of water is greater than EtOH, it would sink > > not float. Joe > > > > > > > > Would it separate at all? Boiling doesn't work that way, does > > freezing? > > > > > > > > Keith Addison > > > > Journey to Forever > > > > Handmade Projects > > > > Tokyo > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > >" is a consummate art, reserved only for those > > with exquisite > > > > >taste, and impeccable manners" R.G.C. > > > > > > > > No doubt, RGC. Nonetheless, Snipping For The Rest Of Us is an idea > > > > whose time has come. I hope. > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite
According to companies who are listed on the web, zeolite 3A will absorb 30 to 40% of its weight in water. I have read that 3A stands for 3 angstrums(spelling) and as I understand water molecues are bigger than that, it also will allow ethanol to pass right through but trapping the water. But, how much zeolite do you need to filter a gallon of ethanol to make it anhydrous. I don't know. Maybe one of our chemistry majors can help us with that. Anyone? Regards, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite > Use molecular sieves to absorb water from > ethanol/methanol. > That's what they're made for and they're > reusable/nontoxic. > > --- Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Do you have any idea how much zeolite cost? I don't > > have a > > >clue. > > >Thanks for writing. > > >Ron Miller > > > > > > According to the web source Keith provided, it's > > about $10 per pound, > > but I was quoted that much for silica gel, so it > > might be more now. > > BTW, the same source says only 10% of its weight in > > absorbed water, not > > the 25% I mentioned. Sounds lowsilica gel is > > good up to 40% of its weight, > > but it's not very selective -- may absorb ethanol > > nearly as much as water. > > Does anyone know? -K > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] "We don't need no..."
"Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "Dr. Nering made no claims or stipulations about population growth in his analogy. Rather, he used actual estimated increases in global energy consumption. The 5% growth per annum which he "assumed" is a global reality. Whether the percentage remains, increases or decreases from 5% was not his primary point. (Mind you, if the percentage changes, it will be by human choices, no matter what direction it turns.) The increase in global consumption is not only due to population increase, but flat out consumption increase by other countries adopting western "uncivilization" consumption patterns." No matter how you slice and dice it, 5% growth IS a simple exponential, because that growth is at least implicitly compound (if linear, you have to specify a base). And assuming a continued simple exponential growth of ANYTHING is palpable nonsense. You can have a lot of fun demonstrating that the Universe will be devoured in X years, but all you're really demonstrating is that the model is invalid. No doubt the students will remember - I only hope they remember to question! Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Rethinking Economies of Scale
"Dick Carlstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Keith: "A couple of things to add. Biodiesel may or may not be feasible at the individual small-peasant level" *or necessary, i might add... bullocks, mules, and such are known to have little use for biodiesel, being programmed to run better on biomass. Carabaos work fine for tilling and short-range transport of the harvest, but farm-to-market transportation is by motor truck - there is no alternative. That is where fuel costs come in for everybody. If you have your own 1940 Dodge 5/4T and it's running, you buy the fuel; if you hire it done you pay the trucker to buy the fuel. *i understand that coco water alky gives you an unbearable hangover. a shot of biodiesel 'the morning after the night before' might help straighten things out. it should clear your brain, as well as other parts of your humanity. Coconut water is not fermented to a beverage as far as I know. You are probably thinking of tuba or arrak, which is made from the nectar of the coconut flower. *folks, i wish we'd get REAL on this. there's ~ one thousand million subsistence farming operations going on in this planet, and none of them has a tractor, or anything else that runs on biodiesel, cocokero, or whatever. See above. Any farmer who wants to market part of his crop ends up using the roads, directly or indirectly. And that means motor fuel. He might as well be making it, if he can make it for less than the cash cost of the fuel he would otherwise have to purchase. Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Sanction to CEPSA by the Spanish Defense of the Competition Court.
With 200 milions ptas ( 1.20 million Euros ), because the court consider that has realized banned practices imposing its prices to its fuel-stations. This is a prove that we don«t have a free hydrocarbure market ( it«s specially anticompetitive for Small Enterprises, like the biodiesel ones ). All the best. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [biofuel] Nissan to develop new cars
Singapore has gone into partnership with Diamler Chrysler on the fuel cell car concept. The infrastructure for H2 filling stations would be set up. It would be a few more years before everyone would be driving a fuel cell car. Though the pollution would be coming from the main H2 plant. That's is where all the carbon is coming from. Lost the link on the above article. Gerry "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 06/06/2001 06:21:12 PM Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group) Subject: Re: [biofuel] Nissan to develop new cars "Fuel-cell cars run on electricity produced by taking hydrogen from a liquid such as methanol or gasoline, and combining it with oxygen from air. They emit only water and heat as exhaust and have become the focal point of research in an industry seeking cleaner alternatives to the internal-combustion engine." Where did the carbon go? Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:58 AM Subject: [biofuel] Nissan to develop new cars > InfoBeat - Report: Nissan to develop new cars > >TOKYO (AP) - Nissan Motor Co. and Renault SA of France have > decided to develop cars with a fuel cell that runs on gasoline, > following the lead of the world's largest automakers, a Japanese > newspaper said Monday. >Fuel-cell cars run on electricity produced by taking hydrogen > from a liquid such as methanol or gasoline, and combining it with > oxygen from air. They emit only water and heat as exhaust and have > become the focal point of research in an industry seeking cleaner > alternatives to the internal-combustion engine. >Nissan, which is owned 36.8 percent by Renault, has opted for > the gasoline-powered fuel cell because of the likelihood that it > will become the American standard, the national Yomiuri newspaper > reported in a front page story. >Ritsuko Harimoto, a Nissan spokeswoman, could not immediately > comment on the report. >In January, General Motors Corp. of the United States and > Japan's Toyota Motor Corp. said they would join Exxon Mobil Corp., > a major U.S. oil company, in an alliance to develop gasoline as the > source of energy for fuel-cell cars. >The announcement by the world's largest and third-largest > automakers led Nissan and Renault to come up with a similar model, > the Yomiuri said, quoting unidentified company sources. >Nissan and Renault will spend 85 billion yen ($714 million) on > the project and will market the fuel-cell vehicles as early as > 2005, the newspaper said. >Regulators around the world are pressuring automakers to make > cars that generate no pollution particles or gases. By 2003, > California will require zero-emissions cars to make up 4 percent of > annual sales in the state. > > http://www.infobeat.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/IBFrontEnd.woa/wa/fullStory > ?article=407953691 > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs...
Thanks. Gerry Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Not much Tempura oil
Dear listers, Sorry I've been quiet for such a long time. Lots of catch up to do. Last night Keith and I visited some of the restaurants around here in this suburb near Tokyo to collect some used cooking oil. To our surprise, we found that many of restaurants that smelled of cooking oil had little or no used oil for us. The proprietor of the tofu shop we visited first, who also sells deep-fried tofu and other cooked food, told us: "We don't produce used cooking oil anymore. We bought this nice frying machine which cleans the oil by just adding some water, so we can use it again and again. It cost 1.5 million yen [US$14,000], but we don't have to deal with used cooking oil anymore!" When we left the shop I told Keith: "I will never buy food from this shop, yuk!" Then we visited a Chinese-style restaurant. The chef told us: "We have no cooking oil, we use lard." "Lard is okay," I said. "No," he said, "we use it all up so there isn't any to give away." Another place we won't be eating at! At the third, a Japanese food and Sake restaurant, the chef told us: "We just throw the old oil down the drain so we don't have any." He looked a bit ashamed. We did find a couple of other restaurants that gave us some used cooking oil, and promised us more. But the whole experience discouraged us even more from eating out at restaurants. Quite many "environmentally aware" Japanese recommend that people should use Tempura oil over and over, and then use it up in stir frying to the end. They feel good about not throwing it down the drain, but their bodies surely don't like it. Of course what goes down the drain is never counted when people calculate how much, or how little, biodiesel could be produced to meet a country's needs. Best wishes, Midori Hiraga Handmade Projects Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/jp/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol vs. Methanol
>Where are you getting methanol for $3 a gallon? Do you >need a license to buy it? >-Martin Klingensmith Place called Kaeding Racing in Campbell, CA. They offer lots of stuff for dragsters, sprint cars, etc, including FUEL.. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite
Use molecular sieves to absorb water from ethanol/methanol. That's what they're made for and they're reusable/nontoxic. --- Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Do you have any idea how much zeolite cost? I don't > have a > >clue. > >Thanks for writing. > >Ron Miller > > > According to the web source Keith provided, it's > about $10 per pound, > but I was quoted that much for silica gel, so it > might be more now. > BTW, the same source says only 10% of its weight in > absorbed water, not > the 25% I mentioned. Sounds lowsilica gel is > good up to 40% of its weight, > but it's not very selective -- may absorb ethanol > nearly as much as water. > Does anyone know? -K > __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol vs. Methanol
>Where are you getting methanol for $3 a gallon? Do you >need a license to buy it? >-Martin Klingensmith Forgot to mention -- no license required. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol vs. Methanol
Where are you getting methanol for $3 a gallon? Do you need a license to buy it? -Martin Klingensmith --- Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >Really, though, now that we know that ethanol is > available why are we > >bothering with methanol? I find myself learning > with methanol and then > >having to switch to ethanol for environmental > advantage. > > > >Mike B > > Cost, cost, cost. I pay $3.00 a gallon for methanol > in small quantities, > others are paying much less. I can't even make my > own anhydrous > ethanol for less than $10 a gallon, and buying it > from a commercial > producer puts you over $50 a gallon with all the > tax. -K > __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] I'm a Newbie!!
Go to www.veggievan.com and buy the book. This list and the message board listed http://biodiesel.infopop.net/ can fill you in on the details. Greg -Original Message- From: Jeff Edwards [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:05 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] I'm a Newbie!! I am new to the Bio fuel scene and enjoy lurking on this list. I have found donut shops eager to be rid of their waste oil and really don't quite know what to do next. I have extensive fabrication experience and am looking forward to running my diesels on old donut squeezings. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jeff E. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] I'm a Newbie!!
I am new to the Bio fuel scene and enjoy lurking on this list. I have found donut shops eager to be rid of their waste oil and really don't quite know what to do next. I have extensive fabrication experience and am looking forward to running my diesels on old donut squeezings. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jeff E. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biodiesel Source Material Down the Drain...
>From the Wall Street Journal... June 4, 2001 Municipal Heart Attack: Illegal Dumping Of Fryer Grease, Fat Leads to Infarctions The Sewer-Fat Crisis Stirs a National Stink Fueled by the fast-food frenzy and an influx of immigrant cooks, America's appetite for eating out has bloated the national output of a viscous goop known as restaurant grease -- to three billion pounds a year. Where does used grease go? Traditionally, into the cauldrons of the rendering industry, which processes animal castoffs into useful products. But for reasons ranging from Malaysia's palm-oil boom to Mayor Rudolph Giuliani's crackdown on New York's garbage Mafia, more goop than ever is ending up in the sewer. How it wends its way in -- by pipe? by bucket? -- is a matter of culinary mystery and governmental mystification. Once the goop arrives, the effect is clearer than mud: Grease and sewage don't mix. Don Montelli stands over a manhole on another Brooklyn corner -- a "notorious grease spot," he says, in front of a Chinese take-out. Mr. Montelli, a high-tech sewer worker, holds a video screen attached by wire to a robot camera down below. "What you're looking at right now," Mr. Montelli explains, "is grease down the sewer." With colonoscopic clarity, the camera shows a pipe with a drippy coating of fat. Fat won't pollute; it won't corrode or explode. It accretes. Sewer rats love sewer fat; high protein builds their sex drive. Solids stick in fat. Slowly, pipes occlude. Sewage backs up into basements -- or worse, the fat hardens, a chunk breaks off and rides down the pipe until it jams in the machinery of an underground floodgate. That, to use a more digestible metaphor, causes a municipal heart attack. Fat infarctions have struck of late in Honolulu, Columbus, Ohio, and Lake Placid, N.Y. A grease clot in Cobb County, Ga., recently set off a 600,000 gallon sewage surge into the Chattahoochee River. In January, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency sued Los Angeles for allowing 2,000 overflows in the past five years; an EPA audit blamed 41% of them on fat. New York's sewers run for 6,437 miles. Waste water and storm water mix in 70% of the system. When it rains hard, treatment plants can't cope with the flow, so regulators open and the mess gushes into rivers and bays. On dry days, the gates are supposed to stay closed, and do -- except when grease gums up the works. With 21,000 places serving food, New York gets 5,000 fat-based backups a year and several big gum-ups. Its environmental protectors have fingered greasy-spoon districts as suspects, not just Coney Island and Chinatown, but the area around Carnegie Hall. New York's greasiest sewers, however, lie in the section of the borough of Queens called Flushing. Flushing is solidly Asian and restaurant-intense. Bouquet of deep-fryer wafts over streets abloom with signage. Crowds push past hole-in-the-wall stalls; fish and vegetable stands build mountains of perishing perishables. So much fat gets flushed in Flushing that last year it blocked the sewers 50 times. Three times at the end of 1999, it locked up floodgates and let raw sewage flush into Flushing River. "We are subjected to the stench of sewer dirt to the degree that we are throwing up. This is not to laugh!" So said Julia Harrison, to laughs, at a special City Hall sewer-fat hearing. Ms. Harrison is Flushing's City Council member. "Restaurant people have been preached to, given literature, and still plead ignorance," she said. "It's not ignorance. It's up yours!" The city's plumbing code requires "grease-generating establishments" to have grease traps. A grease trap is a box. Greasy water flows into it and slows, letting the grease rise. The water drains into the sewer and the grease stays. The MGM Grand in Las Vegas has five 15,000 gallon grease traps; trucks pump them out. In big cities, traps fit under kitchen floors. They have to be emptied by hand. Scooping out a grease trap is a job nobody wants to do after dinner. Often, nobody does. When a trap fills, greasy water races through it. A Chinese kitchen with four wok stations needs a 5,000 gallon trap or it may as well have no trap at all. Lots of places, Chinese and otherwise, don't. New York has six grease inspectors for 21,000 restaurants. It asks them all to recycle trap grease, but the city has only one trap-grease recycler. "We thought this was the future," says Livio Forte of A&L Recycling. It wasn't. Trap grease is too watery -- expensive to boil down. In a month, A&L collects only 15,000 gallons of it. Which recycles the question: Where does the grease go? Forget trap grease -- it's a drop in the can. Most restaurant grease actually comes from deep-fat fryers. You can't pour gallons of that down the drain. The real issue is: What happens to the deep fat? Mr. LaGrotta admits he's out of his depth. "From my understanding," he says, "it has value, but I'm no expert. Better talk to some people in the business. We are talking YELLOW GREASE. Af
RE: [biofuel] Nissan to develop new cars
Steve,
The folks (Ballard, Plug Power, others) using hydrocarbons to feed their
fuel cells are using a catalytic 'pre-processor' ('reformer') to strip the
hydrogen off to feed the fuel cell. The pre-processor releases the CO and
other compounds, while the fuel cell produces electricity, heat, and water
vapor. It appears the carbon compounds from the reformer are half what
would be released if burned.
CNN reported on 23 March 2000 that a team from the University of
Pennsylvania had built a fuel cell that runs efficiently on unprocessed
hydrocarbon fuels without carbon buildup, but the article didn't give many
specifics, other than to say it was an anode/electrolyte/cathode cell
running at 700-800 degrees C.
Ballard uses a proton-exchange membrane (basically, a platinum-coated
semi-permeable plastic membrane) to combine hydrogen and oxygen.
Most of the companies listed in the article are part of the group working
with Ballard Power Systems www.ballard.com "Ballard is partnering with
strong, world-leading companies, including DaimlerChrysler, Ford, GPU
International, ALSTOM and EBARA, to commercialize Ballard fuel cells.
Ballard has also supplied fuel cells to Honda, Nissan, Volkswagen, Yamaha,
Cinergy, Coleman Powermate and Matsushita Electric Works, among others."
Andy
-Original Message-
From: steve spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 5:21 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Nissan to develop new cars
"Fuel-cell cars run on electricity produced by taking hydrogen
from a liquid such as methanol or gasoline, and combining it with
oxygen from air. They emit only water and heat as exhaust and have
become the focal point of research in an industry seeking cleaner
alternatives to the internal-combustion engine."
Where did the carbon go?
Steve Spence
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- Original Message -
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:58 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Nissan to develop new cars
> InfoBeat - Report: Nissan to develop new cars
>
>TOKYO (AP) - Nissan Motor Co. and Renault SA of France have
> decided to develop cars with a fuel cell that runs on gasoline,
> following the lead of the world's largest automakers, a Japanese
> newspaper said Monday.
> http://www.infobeat.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/IBFrontEnd.woa/wa/fullStory
> ?article=407953691
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Re: Food vs Biodiesel production was Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
i dont know that i agree that there would be any more of a feed meal glut than there is right now. all the grain that is being produced in this country today is being marketed to every conceivable use there currently is and we still have an oversupply. currently if commodity prices are high the grain farmer sell his produce to the majority of his crop or all anyone will take to food production and the livestock feeders get what is left, this causes high feed prices to the people feeding livestock and low livestock prices, on the other hand if commodities prices are low it then becomes more feasible to market their grain through the livestock because feed is cheap and more often than not when feedstocks are depressed, livestock markets are up. i am no economist and certainly not as educated as most of you on here seem to be, that is just my humble viewpoint from out here in the country where all of this stuff takes place. what i guess i am trying to say is that there is more than one way to market grains and oilseeds, and one more way, ie ethanol and biodiesel production only gives one more option of a way to market a product that we seem able to produce an abundance of. and hey, if the point comes to where grains or other fermenting stocks are too expesive to use for fuel, i would be willing to bet there will be someone willing to fire up a crude oil refinery and ease our econmic woes and the cycle could start all over again. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Economy of Scale-or-Smaller is Better...Maybe
Hi Burk, Tho still a Michigander, the Air Force says I should live in Srn Illinois for awhile longer, so here I sit. :-) There's not a lot of commercial biodiesel around here yet either, tho Scott AFB is running B20 in their fleet now, as are the St Louis area/Srn Illinois Bi-State busses. In the 'States, only the 96 and 97 Passats have TDIs in them. It's the same 90 hp engine that's in the new Beetle/Golf/Jettas, except you have a variable geometry turbo while mine is fixed. So far my concentrations have only been 50 percent as I'm making it in 5 gallon plastic buckets. It only takes 10 or 20 percent for the few particulates this car generates to disappear, and with 10% biodiesel I don't use my regular fuel additive/pump lubricant (Stanadyne). I've not made any changes to the car. All fuel made so far has been from the methanol/lye single stage process using new oil. I've been doing a simple wash by mixing water into the fuel and letting it settle out, then pumping it thru a fuel filter and into the gas tank. I boil a gallon from each batch but have never had any steam bubbles after the fuel/water settles for two days. I've got a hydrometer, but no PH meter, and haven't yet done titrations. I've got some used oil waiting for UPS to bring me some sulphuric acid and I'll start working with Aleks' latest recipe. The best recommendation I've gotten (from Mike Pelly), and one I'll make this weekend, is the addition of a clear fuel filter right before the main filter under the hood. Your car is new enough - you probably don't have much dinodiesel-related crud in the fuel tank. The in-line filter can save you a main filter change when the biodiesel cleanes your fuel system, and you can monitor things thru the clear case. If you've not visited yet, get to Fred's TDI page for the TDI Club forums at www.tdiclub.com. Tons of excellent info on TDIs, as well as an enthusiasts-eye-view of commercial biodiesel. There may be one or two folks their making their own fuel, but they've been burning commercial fuel for awhile and discussing operational findings. Many folks perform regular oil analysis and are beginning to report a bit of oil dilution from 'our' fuel. These cars are completely computer controlled, and folks are actually reporting fuel mileage increases, vice the expected 5 percent decrease. For everyone else, take a look at the pages (specifically the fuel/lube forums) and take a look at a growing segment of your potential customer base. Members are from all over North and South America, as well as 'across the pond'. Cheers, Andy -Original Message- From: Burkhard Wegner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 11:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FW: [biofuel] Economy of Scale-or-Smaller is Better...Maybe Hi Andy, A few quick questions if you don't mind. I just picked up a 99 VW Jetta TDI a few weeks past, and also just recently got into reading about BioDiesel. I live near Toronto, Canada and it's not as common around here I guess. What year is your Passat and what (if any) differences do you notice running your own BioDiesel? Also, what process do you use / would you recommend to produce your own BioDiesel. What type of oil are you using, new/used? I think your marketing / decentralized production idea of BioDiesel is great Thanks, burk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Economy of Scale-or-Smaller is Better...Maybe Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Hydrogenated Oil
>I know that it is a solid at room temperature. I believe it is similar to >vegetable shortening. >There is such an animal as partially hydrogenated oil, although I don't know >its characteristics. >Mike You might find some basic information here - these are health sites, but these two ladies know their fats (Sally Fallon and Mary Enig). http://www.westonaprice.org/ Weston A. Price Foundation http://www.enig.com/trans.html Trans Fat Info Web There's also this, not a new book but probably good: http://chla.mannlib.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/chla/chla-idx?notisid=ADK2482 Author: E. W. Eckey Title: Vegetable fats and oils Publisher: ReinholdPublication Date: 1954 City: New YorkPages: 848 page images Series: Monograph series (American Chemical Society) no. 123 Subjects: Oils and fats Full text online at Cornell. The pages are graphics, but there's a search function, and you can also download the full ASCII text (uncorrected) here: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/chla/chla-idx?notisid=ADK2482&c oll=monograph1&&page=ocr.download It's one long text file, about 2Mb. Hope this helps Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ > > -Original Message- > > From: ian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:59 PM > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Hydrogenated Oil > > > > > > I'm asking the same question. > > How can you tell it apart from other veggie oil? > > Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Hydrogenated Oil
I know that it is a solid at room temperature. I believe it is similar to vegetable shortening. There is such an animal as partially hydrogenated oil, although I don't know its characteristics. Mike > -Original Message- > From: ian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:59 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Hydrogenated Oil > > > I'm asking the same question. > How can you tell it apart from other veggie oil? > Ian > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Ethanol vs. Methanol
Funny, I've priced 200% ethanol here at around $.80 liter. What gives? I better double check my sources. Mike > -Original Message- > From: Ken Provost [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:23 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [biofuel] Ethanol vs. Methanol > > > > > >Really, though, now that we know that ethanol is available why are we > >bothering with methanol? I find myself learning with methanol and then > >having to switch to ethanol for environmental advantage. > > > >Mike B > > Cost, cost, cost. I pay $3.00 a gallon for methanol in small quantities, > others are paying much less. I can't even make my own anhydrous > ethanol for less than $10 a gallon, and buying it from a commercial > producer puts you over $50 a gallon with all the tax. -K > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogenated Oil
I'm asking the same question. How can you tell it apart from other veggie oil? Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Ethanol vs. Methanol
> >Really, though, now that we know that ethanol is available why are we >bothering with methanol? I find myself learning with methanol and then >having to switch to ethanol for environmental advantage. > >Mike B Cost, cost, cost. I pay $3.00 a gallon for methanol in small quantities, others are paying much less. I can't even make my own anhydrous ethanol for less than $10 a gallon, and buying it from a commercial producer puts you over $50 a gallon with all the tax. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite
>Do you have any idea how much zeolite cost? I don't have a >clue. >Thanks for writing. >Ron Miller According to the web source Keith provided, it's about $10 per pound, but I was quoted that much for silica gel, so it might be more now. BTW, the same source says only 10% of its weight in absorbed water, not the 25% I mentioned. Sounds lowsilica gel is good up to 40% of its weight, but it's not very selective -- may absorb ethanol nearly as much as water. Does anyone know? -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
