Re: [biofuels-biz] High FFA oils - another way
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] High FFA oils - another way Hello Paul snip - Original Message - Paul wrote Mix the lime into the WVO/BD and heat with occasional stirring to 100 deg C. The lime appears to dissolve in WVO as heated but is probably just held in suspension. Cool decant and filter. No problems with ammount of lime just use excess. Forgot to mention that it is best to make a slurry of the lime and a small volume of WVO, then add this to WVO. Thanks Paul, I'll try that. But this caustic refining step is so easy I'm quite satisfied with it, and there's no need for heat, for filtering, or for anything you haven't already got. ... just use excess - about how much per litre? Be guided by the titration. 1g NaOH is equivalent in reaction to 1.08g Ca(OH)2 Would much rather go acid/base with feedstock with FFA content this high, Sure, as I said, but a lot of people don't do acid-base. Also, acid-base doesn't like this particular oil, it has a lot of salt in it (tempura oil). Hot pre-washing solves that problem, but that then makes the acid-base process a lot more trouble than this, and a lot more energy use, so you're left to choose between much more time and hassle for the acid-base advantages, or a quick and easy way like this, and there's not much in it. Especially since I think recovered FFAs are useful, not wastage. You're not using more methanol, the extra lye isn't expensive, so it's really just some extra phosphoric, no big deal, as against no sulphuric. Interesting I didn't think of the salt content. less wastage/recovery It's an alternative - better than straight single-stage base for oil like this, and while it won't get as a high a production rate as acid-base, and it uses more catalyst and gives you more co-products, it's very quick and simple, and the product is good. and acid stage allows alcohols other than methanol or ethanol to be used. Isopropanol for instance has the potential to reduce cloudpoint. Have you tried the acid-base process with isopropynol? That'll make branched alkyl esters, low cloud-point yes, but I don't know of anyone that's had any success with isopropynol or butyl other than with enzymes, though I do know people who've tried. Reference previously posted in Cracking thread, Foglia et al, for instance. Pressure maybe. Have to dig through my records, intended to try acid/base with isoprop in acid stage but can't remember whether I got around to it. isopropanol definitely doesn't seem to want to work for transesterification. I think Aleks was working on BD using either isopropanol or butanol. Best wishes Keith Regards, Paul Gobert Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] High FFA oils - another way
Hi again Paul snip - Original Message - Paul wrote Mix the lime into the WVO/BD and heat with occasional stirring to 100 deg C. The lime appears to dissolve in WVO as heated but is probably just held in suspension. Cool decant and filter. No problems with ammount of lime just use excess. Forgot to mention that it is best to make a slurry of the lime and a small volume of WVO, then add this to WVO. Right, thanks. Thanks Paul, I'll try that. But this caustic refining step is so easy I'm quite satisfied with it, and there's no need for heat, for filtering, or for anything you haven't already got. ... just use excess - about how much per litre? Be guided by the titration. 1g NaOH is equivalent in reaction to 1.08g Ca(OH)2 Okay, that's what I needed to know, thankyou. I've got some gunk here from a failed test (what's the use of tests unless some of them fail, LOL!), I'll try it, and on some of this 9.15 ml titration WVO. Would much rather go acid/base with feedstock with FFA content this high, Sure, as I said, but a lot of people don't do acid-base. Also, acid-base doesn't like this particular oil, it has a lot of salt in it (tempura oil). Hot pre-washing solves that problem, but that then makes the acid-base process a lot more trouble than this, and a lot more energy use, so you're left to choose between much more time and hassle for the acid-base advantages, or a quick and easy way like this, and there's not much in it. Especially since I think recovered FFAs are useful, not wastage. You're not using more methanol, the extra lye isn't expensive, so it's really just some extra phosphoric, no big deal, as against no sulphuric. Interesting I didn't think of the salt content. Doesn't seem to matter with transesterification, but it interferes with acid esterification. Needs more sulphuric, and it still might not work well. Best to wash it out first. Heat the oil to 60 deg C, heat the same amount of water to 80 deg C, pour the hot water onto the oil, chuck in a bubbler, maintain overall heat at about 75-80 deg C, bubble for about two hours, cool, settle, separate. The oil doesn't seem to need dewatering after that, nice and dry, somehow. less wastage/recovery It's an alternative - better than straight single-stage base for oil like this, and while it won't get as a high a production rate as acid-base, and it uses more catalyst and gives you more co-products, it's very quick and simple, and the product is good. and acid stage allows alcohols other than methanol or ethanol to be used. Isopropanol for instance has the potential to reduce cloudpoint. Have you tried the acid-base process with isopropynol? That'll make branched alkyl esters, low cloud-point yes, but I don't know of anyone that's had any success with isopropynol or butyl other than with enzymes, though I do know people who've tried. Reference previously posted in Cracking thread, Foglia et al, for instance. Pressure maybe. Have to dig through my records, intended to try acid/base with isoprop in acid stage but can't remember whether I got around to it. isopropanol definitely doesn't seem to want to work for transesterification. I think Aleks was working on BD using either isopropanol or butanol. Yes, Aleks was working with isopropanol, but he gave up, got chicken soup no matter what he did. He didn't try pressure though. Anyway, he seems satisfied with acid-base as-is, put a fuel line heater on his Jeep so he didn't need lower cloud points anymore. Definitely a no-no for transesterification, that probably goes for butyl too. Either acid-base under pressure or enzymes, I think. Thanks again Paul Regards Keith Best wishes Keith Regards, Paul Gobert Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] High FFA oils - another way
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip You settle it with acetic acid? I think the resultant FFAs just dissolve back into the biodiesel then. I might not have been too clear here Keith. On occasions when I have been a bit heavy with the caustic I have produced a BD which set to a jelly. Treating this jelly with Glacial acetic acid breaks up the soap into FFA and releases the biodiesel from the jelly. Only problem is as you mentioned we end up with a mixture of BD/FFA/excess acetic acid. Excess acetic acid will wash out. The FFA content can be reduced using slaked lime to enable the BD to be used as automotive fuel. Regards Paul. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Cracking
In upstate NY, kero and diesel are sold side-by-side in most stations. Use to work for a trucking company. Saw a few engines die because of gasoline additions. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards: http://www.green-trust.org Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Lee Sheppard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Cracking Well I have not seen kerosene at truck stops. When you travel north from the south and you heading or in subzero weather. Just no that many places to pull a semi in to keep it warm or heat it backup. Steve Spence wrote: not by intelligent diesel owners. the logical choice is kerosene. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards: http://www.green-trust.org Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Lee Sheppard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Cracking Todd Swearingen so what can be done to bio-diesel to lower the gel point? I know that adding gasoline to diesel in winter is done by some to stop diesel gelling in winters lower temperatures. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] FUEL ETHANOL THAILAND
http://www.nrglink.com/ Green Energy News - Covering clean, efficient and renewable energy FUEL ETHANOL THAILAND Recognizing the critical roles to be played by fuel ethanol in Thailand in the not-too-distant future, Asia Business Forum (Thailand) is hosting a two-day conference September 26-27, 2002 at The Regent Bangkok Hotel, Thailand. Contact Ms. Nuchada [EMAIL PROTECTED] FUEL ETHANOL THAILAND http://lox2.loxinfo.co.th/~abfbkk/ethanol/ Fuel Ethanol Thailand Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] High FFA oils - another way
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip You settle it with acetic acid? I think the resultant FFAs just dissolve back into the biodiesel then. I might not have been too clear here Keith. On occasions when I have been a bit heavy with the caustic I have produced a BD which set to a jelly. Treating this jelly with Glacial acetic acid breaks up the soap into FFA and releases the biodiesel from the jelly. Only problem is as you mentioned we end up with a mixture of BD/FFA/excess acetic acid. Excess acetic acid will wash out. The FFA content can be reduced using slaked lime to enable the BD to be used as automotive fuel. Regards Paul. Thankyou Paul, that's very interesting, a solution to the jelly problem. I'd like to try that. I haven't had any jelly since I started hanging wild garlic in the windows, but I'm sure they'll outwit me in the end. Maybe I'll try making some purpose-built jelly. I treated some high-FFA oil with slaked lime, as instructed. I'll let it settle for a bit then see what I can do with it. Thanks much. Regards Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] LA Times Article Describing Near-End of Electric Vehicle Efforts in California
Lest Biofuel Fans take over-much solace in problems of getting EV's built: note please the over-anxiousness of the journalist, in this and other cases, to do the bidding and the quoting of the standard Auto-Industry Oil-Industry line. This lack of critical inquiry is a hallmark of journalists' coverage I've seen of the issue. They generally simply accept the explanations that are given them by the Industry Spokesmen. I'm sure you all know, when the Oil Industry decides the same should be true of a biofuel issues: Look Out. MM http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-cars15sep15.story?coll=la%2Dheadline s%2Dcalifornia State Takes Sharp Turn on Emissions Cars: With electric vehicles still impractical, hybrids and gasoline engines are showing unexpected promise. By GARY POLAKOVIC TIMES STAFF WRITER September 15 2002 California set out boldly 12 years ago to fill the highways with smog-free, electric cars, but today air quality officials are quietly admitting failure and embarking on a new strategy to cut tailpipe emissions. The planned rollout date for the zero-emission vehicle is at hand. But the arrival of fully functional and affordable electric cars is nowhere in sight, as vacant battery-charging parking spaces at shopping centers attest. As early as January, the state Air Resources Board is expected to overhaul its regulations, moving away from electric cars and emphasizing promising new technologies instead. These include extraordinarily clean gasoline engines and hybrid cars powered by a combination of batteries and a small combustion engine. The new technologies, which were not anticipated when the electric-vehicle program began in 1990, are just now beginning to come into their own. We put a lot of faith in battery electric vehicles to meet the [zero-emission vehicle] mandate but, in spite of significant efforts, batteries have inherent limitations, said Alan C. Lloyd, chairman of the state air board. We're not giving up on the goal of the zero-emission vehicle, but we have to be realistic. No matter how you cut it, it is disappointing, Lloyd said. Despite the failure to produce electric cars, the progress on other fronts has buoyed hopes that ultra-clean, if not battery-powered, cars are on the horizon. That is good news. Without dramatically cleaner cars, trucks and vans, smog centers such as Los Angeles, Bakersfield and San Bernardino will have little hope for healthy, blue skies. Vehicles release about two-thirds of all smog-forming pollutants across California, creating a pall linked to bronchitis, asthma and cancer. The battery car never lived up to expectations because conventional lead-acid batteries don't produce enough power to make electric cars perform like vehicles with gasoline engines. More advanced batteries that improve performance still cost too much. The battery electric car is not going to be viable any time soon. It is dead on arrival, said Greg Dana, vice president of environmental affairs for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, which represents 12 of the world's biggest automakers. Other technologies, however, are advancing rapidly. Some, including hybrids and ultra-clean gasoline cars, are approaching near-zero levels of emission. For air quality officials, it is an unforeseen twist. Have technology-forcing regulations paid off? Absolutely. Did it pay off in the way we had hoped? No, Lloyd said. If you keep pushing technology and technology-forcing standards, you don't always know what will accrue, what the side benefits are. There have been side benefits, and there will be more benefits that would not have accrued without our push. Standards effective with the 2004 model year require that the cleanest new cars emit only one-twentieth the amount of smog-forming material as is released by cars on the road today. Recent tests at UC Riverside on 24 of those next-generation gasoline cars showed they exceed even the most stringent California standard, a result considered impossible several years ago. One Honda Accord, specially equipped with a sealed fuel tank and exhaust traps, produced virtually no air pollution, said James M. Lents, director of the Environmental Policy, Atmospheric Processes and Modeling Laboratory at UC Riverside. The air coming into the [car's] intake was more polluted than what was coming out of the tailpipe, Lents said. We can build some mighty clean gasoline cars today, a lot better than people have argued could be built. It is possible today to build gasoline vehicles that come close to zero pollution. The technology has gone so far. Hybrid cars are proliferating too. About 15,000 hybrids, led by the Toyota Prius and Honda's Insight and Civic, are on California highways, officials estimate. Toyota Motor Corp. plans to produce 300,000 worldwide in two years, while the Big Three auto makers have plans for hybrid vehicles beginning in 2004. The hybrids are powered by batteries in support of small gasoline engines. They
[biofuel] Economis Article On Oil Production, Possible Iraq War, Effect on OPEC, Prices, etc.
http://www.economist.com/world/displaystory.cfm?story_id=1325264 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Hi from Australia
Hi all, I've just found your group are very interested in making Bio Diesel. I have been collecting lots of info from the web, it all seems to good to be true. I want to make as small trial batch before I get into it in a bigger way. Are there any problems running a turbo diesel engine on Bio diesel, as this is my main objective. Any hints or tips for a first time maker? Cheers Tony Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hi from Australia
On Sun, 15 Sep 2002 20:36, you wrote: Hi all, I've just found your group are very interested in making Bio Diesel. I have been collecting lots of info from the web, it all seems to good to be true. I want to make as small trial batch before I get into it in a bigger way. Are there any problems running a turbo diesel engine on Bio diesel, as this is my main objective. Any hints or tips for a first time maker? Cheers Tony Tony, where R U in Aus?? (I'm in N -NSW, there is Neil in ACT also) I run a Supercharged Mazda 626, a Peugeot 405SRDT on Bd. regards Doug Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What about Hydrogen?? Was: Air car.
we see where air comes from. run a compressor and compress the stuff we breath. downright inefficient, but it works. hydrogen doesn't exist on it's own. it has to be extracted (from fossil fuels, or from water), and then compressed. Double jeopardy. also, a compressed air tank, if punctured, tends to zoom around for a while, not go BANG with amazing pyrotechnics. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards: http://www.green-trust.org Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Curtis Sakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 7:02 PM Subject: [biofuel] What about Hydrogen?? Was: Air car. Been following this air car thread for awhile. Still can't see why an air car seem oooh ... ahhh ... wowww workable ... and yet hydrogen powering a car gets the 50 caliber hitting the airplane followed by crash -n- burn. I'm confused because in both air and H2, energy gets stored the same way. Either by compressing it ... or (like in the previous post - nitrogen) by cryogenically liquifying it. I would think that H2 would get more range (wouldn't it??). Since in an air car .. only the physical energy storage of the gas is used. Whereas in H2, the combustion (either fast ICE or slow fuel cell) chemical energy gets utilized. I mean, couldn't H2 be used as the air in an air car??? Powering a steam engine?? Then, couldn't the exhaust then be fed into a fuel cell .. releasing still more energy?? Curtis --- kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the process pencils better if you liquify the nitrogen rather than compress it. This is even more so for refrigerated transport where the refrigerator is useful load. = Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Range Was: Air car.
I guess my angle of questioning was that ... H2 is always cut down because of limited range. Not enough room in the car to store enough H2 to go a decent number of miles (unlike gasoline/petrol). And my question was ... if that were so, then wouldn't a physical-energy-only-no-chemical-energy-involved thing like an air-car get even LESS range??? So my question was ... if H2 is already getting knocked down for so low range .. why does an even lower range option like compressed air get such a green light?? comments?? Curtis --- Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Double jeopardy. also, a compressed air tank, if punctured, tends to zoom around for a while, not go BANG with amazing pyrotechnics. = Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Range Was: Air car.
Who is giving it a green light? It's only slightly less dumb than hydrogen. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards: http://www.green-trust.org Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Curtis Sakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 9:28 AM Subject: [biofuel] Range Was: Air car. I guess my angle of questioning was that ... H2 is always cut down because of limited range. Not enough room in the car to store enough H2 to go a decent number of miles (unlike gasoline/petrol). And my question was ... if that were so, then wouldn't a physical-energy-only-no-chemical-energy-involved thing like an air-car get even LESS range??? So my question was ... if H2 is already getting knocked down for so low range .. why does an even lower range option like compressed air get such a green light?? comments?? Curtis --- Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Double jeopardy. also, a compressed air tank, if punctured, tends to zoom around for a while, not go BANG with amazing pyrotechnics. = Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Range Was: Air car.
Ok .. so maybe not YOU personally!!! (LOL) But this air car thread was going around this list (ok, SEEMINGLY) like the panacea of the oil crisis .. the solution to all our problems ... etc .. etc. And that general feel is what made me go ... ...HUH Curtis --- Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who is giving it a green light? It's only slightly less dumb than hydrogen. = Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hi from Australia
Hi Tony, welcome. Hi all, I've just found your group are very interested in making Bio Diesel. I have been collecting lots of info from the web, it all seems to good to be true. It's good, and it's true! I want to make as small trial batch before I get into it in a bigger way. That's the best way. Are there any problems running a turbo diesel engine on Bio diesel, as this is my main objective. No problems. Any hints or tips for a first time maker? Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Best Keith Cheers Tony Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Range Was: Air car.
H2 is not the same thing and they've been working on it for years. A lot of different factors play a part. If one refuels with Methanol instead of Hydrogen, one can achieve a more desireable range (300 miles or so?) When I hear about a new technology with severely limited range and extremely promising advantages in other ways, I keep an open mind as to whether the range can be increased. In this case, I think the range in some cases has exceeded 50 miles, though probably as much do to the modest makeup of the vehicle and not to the efficiency of the engine. Demand for such vehicles does exist, in my fallible opinion, though it is modest and is usually treated with tremendous contempt by those claiming that it is obviously not sufficient for production by a major company. While this is a seemingly extremely valid point of view, it is somewhat belied when one sees that some demand does exist for vehicles where one had been told no demand existed, or when one sees the enthusiasm of potential buyers gathered around a strange new vehicle. In the case of electric vehicles (there are some similarities in the arguments), where range limitations have been similar, use of more advanced batteries has resulted in ranges up to and exceeding 80 miles. In some cases, with very expensive batteries (I'm going to say $30k for such a battery at this point) and very well-designed low-weight cars, the ranges have gotten up to 150 miles for an attractive safe 2 seat vehicle with good sports-car-like acceleration and a top speed (computer-limited) of 80 mph. There have been some lies and half-truths told about demand for that particuular vehicle and I hypothesize that sometimes auto companies are not entirely honest about demand for more-modestly-priced and more-modest-range vehicles. This air car also looks pretty modest, so its price might be very low as well. This also would be an important part of getting perspective on it. People seem to buy bicycles even though their range is limited (by one's willingness to pedal), speed is slow, and in my opinion they're dangerous as hell in traffic. So, in a city, I think the aircar might have an argument for it, though I'm not going out to buy stock any time soon. I'd like to continue to watch their efforts though. On Sun, 15 Sep 2002 06:35:42 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: Ok .. so maybe not YOU personally!!! (LOL) But this air car thread was going around this list (ok, SEEMINGLY) like the panacea of the oil crisis .. the solution to all our problems ... etc .. etc. And that general feel is what made me go ... ...HUH Curtis Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Range Was: Air car.
Ok .. so maybe not YOU personally!!! (LOL) But this air car thread was going around this list (ok, SEEMINGLY) like the panacea of the oil crisis .. the solution to all our problems ... etc .. etc. And that general feel is what made me go ... ...HUH Curtis Hi Curtis I think it's the third time it's been discussed here, pretty similar each time. I liked Hakan's post on it a couple of days ago, that made good sense to me. http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=16624list=BIOFUEL As far as hydrogen is concerned, I much agree with Steve about the difference between an air leak and a hydrogen leak, also it seems most hydrogen is intended to come from or via fossil fuels. And hydrogen is difficult to contain, it eats its way out. Range isn't everything - what's the average car journey distance in the US? I bet it's not much. Certainly a great many journeys are short-range. There's a case for zero-emission short-range vehicles in cities. Would an air car be much less efficient than an electric car? It wouldn't have the battery problem. That might offset lower efficiency, to a point. Oh, I see we had a long argument about this before too. Largely unresolved, it seems. This was quite an interesting one, from Doctor Who: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=7636list=BIOFUEL Separate argument (row, actually) was over batteries, with a fervent EVer claiming batteries were THE recycling success story. Turned out betwen 4 and 7 million defunct car batteries a year get dumped rather than recycled in the US, where there's a good recycling infrastructure for them, unlike in Third World countries where there's no infrastructure, yet people think it's a Good Thing to install PVs. (I've seen ground-up lead-acid batteries sold to farmers as zinc fertilizer.) Anyhow, efficiency isn't the be-all and end-all either, it depends on the particular function or purpose. Using lots of a non-transportable fuel to make a much smaller amount of transportable fuel might be a negative in terms of energy efficiency, but a positive in terms of energy value. If the result is zero-emission (at the tailpipe anyway), that adds another value. I'm not convinced the air car's such a dumb idea. It was supposed to launch in South Africa this year. Any news on that? Once it gets into use somewhere it could possibly be developed quite a lot further. Best Keith --- Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who is giving it a green light? It's only slightly less dumb than hydrogen. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] When a Crop Becomes King
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://premium.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storyu=/nytp/20020719/071200.bail=http%3a%2f%2fpremium.news.yahoo.com%2frd%3fr%3dsolar Did anyone catch this July 19 NY Times article before it went to pay-for-access? Was it any good? Here's a link to the article elsewhere. Probably where the Times got it. And you don't have to pay for it. http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0719-01.htm AP -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.com Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Range Was: Air car.
I liked Hakan's post on it a couple of days ago, that made good sense to me. http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=16624list=BIOFUEL In Hakan's post he said: 2. Several times on this list, people have pointed out the flaws in looking at single stage or a few stages efficiency. Only a few weeks ago, Keith wrote in an elegant way about this. Could someone please point me to this? It is one of my own favorite topics. Range isn't everything - what's the average car journey distance in the US? I bet it's not much. Certainly a great many journeys are short-range. There's a case for zero-emission short-range vehicles in cities. Would an air car be much less efficient than an electric car? It wouldn't have the battery problem. That might offset lower efficiency, to a point. Oh, I see we had a long argument about this before too. Largely unresolved, it seems. This was quite an interesting one, from Doctor Who: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=7636list=BIOFUEL Yes, that was a pretty interesting post. I'm not convinced the air car's such a dumb idea. It was supposed to launch in South Africa this year. Any news on that? Once it gets into use somewhere it could possibly be developed quite a lot further. A google search yields these further links: Very exciting-looking, but upon further examination a year or two old. Mentions a 100+ mile range with modest acceleration. http://www.sunwaterco.com/aircar.html A message board post from a couple of months ago which lists a lot of other links: http://www.realgoods.com/board/tdoc.cfm?td=481tm=2086tstart=1#1 One of the links is apparently a yahoo discussion group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mdiaircar/ I'm interested to know the real latest on this. It looks like things have really moved along quite a bit. I'm also interested to get a much better handle on the energy efficiencies of refueling. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] When a Crop Becomes King
good news. makes sure we have enough corn for heating .. pellet stoves and diesel owners rejoice. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards: http://www.green-trust.org Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Alan S. Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] When a Crop Becomes King [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://premium.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storyu=/nytp/20020719/071200.bail= http%3a%2f%2fpremium.news.yahoo.com%2frd%3fr%3dsolar Did anyone catch this July 19 NY Times article before it went to pay-for-access? Was it any good? Here's a link to the article elsewhere. Probably where the Times got it. And you don't have to pay for it. http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0719-01.htm AP -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.com Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] When a Crop Becomes King
Excellent article. Jesse Parris | studio53 | graphics / web design | stamford, ct | 203.324.4371 www.jesseparris.com/Portfolio_Jesse_Parris/ - Original Message - From: Alan S. Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] When a Crop Becomes King [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://premium.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storyu=/nytp/20020719/071200.bail= http%3a%2f%2fpremium.news.yahoo.com%2frd%3fr%3dsolar Did anyone catch this July 19 NY Times article before it went to pay-for-access? Was it any good? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ram Press has arrived!
Fantastic Ken. So you spent about $600 on getting it here? Can you post some pictures of it? I did a Google search on it but found nothing. Jesse Parris | studio53 | graphics / web design | stamford, ct | 203.324.4371 www.jesseparris.com/Portfolio_Jesse_Parris/ - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 12:14 AM Subject: [biofuel] Ram Press has arrived! Just a little update on my new Hela Mk II Vegetable Oil Ram Press... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] FUEL ETHANOL THAILAND
http://www.nrglink.com/ Green Energy News - Covering clean, efficient and renewable energy FUEL ETHANOL THAILAND Recognizing the critical roles to be played by fuel ethanol in Thailand in the not-too-distant future, Asia Business Forum (Thailand) is hosting a two-day conference September 26-27, 2002 at The Regent Bangkok Hotel, Thailand. Contact Ms. Nuchada [EMAIL PROTECTED] FUEL ETHANOL THAILAND http://lox2.loxinfo.co.th/~abfbkk/ethanol/ Fuel Ethanol Thailand Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Nanotubes
I'm allegedly against nanotechnology, which is nonsense, I'm just deeply suspicious of the folks who'll be implementing it, with good reason, and the allegers are bunch of idiots, IMO. Anyway, I see I posted this about 18 months back: BIG SMALL STUFF. The next big, high-technology craze may begin with other really small technologies - those to the one-billionth, or nano-scale. Since receiving his Nobel Prize for Chemistry for discovering buckyballs (named after visionary Buckminster Fuller) Dr. Richard Smalley has been working with his company Carbon Nanotechnologies Inc. (CNI) to manufacture sufficient quantities of Buckytubes (TM) - elongated buckyballs - to supply research laboratories and industry for use in prototype development. Buckytubes are hollow, pure carbon cylinders one-billionth of a meter in diameter - 1/50,000 of a human hair - with a wall thickness of only one carbon atom. They have the electrical conductivity of copper, the thermal conductivity of diamond and the tensile strength (the effort needed to stretch) 10-times that of steel. Aside from possible uses for very, very advanced materials, they could also be used in solar energy converters, for lithium ion batteries, and in conductive polymers. Buckytubes are available now - for experimenters - through the company website at $500 per gram. With new funding of $15 million CNI should be able to ramp-up its current production rate of 50 -100 grams per day by a factor of ten. Feedstock to make Buckytubes is that evil gas, carbon monoxide. Visit CNI at http://www.cnanotech.com/ . From ENERGIES: Green Energy News on the Web at http://www.nrglink.com/ . For free ENERGIES subscription contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Copyright Green Energy News Inc. 4/14/01 vol.6 no.2 (ENERGIES ain't free any more, sadly. The latest edition carries a story headlined Dirty diesels cleaner with biodiesel ...) Anyway, isn't this what SF writers call a monofilament? SF monofilaments can cut through anything. If it's that type of monofilament, 500 bucks for a gram of it would be a good buy - that sounds like a whole lot of nanotube. Spider silk (now in production in Canada via GM goatsmilk) is only (!) five times stronger than steel, so maybe nanotubes would work like a monofilament. Problem would be how not to cut your legs off by mistake. Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ram Press has arrived!
Great, Ken! Your lightweight days may be numbered, you'll be as muscular as a Malawian mama soon. That raw oil will be great to eat. Did you grow the seed? Excellent to take it full cycle. I'm a bit tickled that you've imported an appropriate technology press from Tanzania, and find it good. I keep saying there's at least as much need for AT in the induistrialized countries as in the Third World. Just a little update on my new Hela Mk II Vegetable Oil Ram Press from ApproTEC Tanzania. It finally arrived, after going through Kilamanjaro, Amsterdam, Los Angeles (by mistake!), up to San Francisco, through customs, and back down to San Jose. Price for the press -- a mere $265 USD. Price for shipping and customs brokerage -- well, a lot more; I'd rather not dwell on that! Maybe I'll try to become the US distributor, and get those freight costs down The press is very robust, much more so than I expected. I ran three kinds of seed through it this morning -- black oil sunflower, brown mustard, and common flax. After getting the proper pressure setting (oil rate vs. seed cake rate), you get into the swing of it, and it goes pretty fast. I went through 3 kg. of seed in about half an hour, and I'm kind of a lightweight. Some of those burly Tanzanians (probly the women!) can do that much in 13 minutes, according to the manual 3 kg. of sunflower seed (with the shell still on) gives slightly over a liter of oil. Flax seems to be a little less, and mustard less still. The oils are settling overnite, and I'll be making biodiesel out of it shortly. Obviously one would need a MAJOR source of oilseed to make this endeavour any more than a laboratory curiosity, but it's great fun to get firsthand experience of where this oil really comes from... -K How much would you need? Average fuel use is about 10 gallons a week. Sunflowers should give 800 kg/hectare, but you should get more than that if you do it yourself small-scale, but say 800 anyway. That's 267 litres, 70 US gallons, so you'd need about eight hectares, 20 acres. Hm. Quite a lot. But it'd leave you with 5.5 tons of high-grade seedcake to use as stockfeed, and you could use some of the manure to generate methane, the rest to fertilize the sunflowers and everything else, use the pigs as ploughs... Pig lard and chicken fat would help. All that wouldn't leave you much time for driving about so you could cut down on fuel use and have a smaller farm. :-) Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Range Was: Air car.
Murdoch wrote: I liked Hakan's post on it a couple of days ago, that made good sense to me. http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=16624list=BIOFUEL In Hakan's post he said: 2. Several times on this list, people have pointed out the flaws in looking at single stage or a few stages efficiency. Only a few weeks ago, Keith wrote in an elegant way about this. Could someone please point me to this? It is one of my own favorite topics. I know you asked before, but I'm sorry, I don't know which message Hakan means - I don't remember writing anything elegant! Hakan? Range isn't everything - what's the average car journey distance in the US? I bet it's not much. Certainly a great many journeys are short-range. There's a case for zero-emission short-range vehicles in cities. Would an air car be much less efficient than an electric car? It wouldn't have the battery problem. That might offset lower efficiency, to a point. Oh, I see we had a long argument about this before too. Largely unresolved, it seems. This was quite an interesting one, from Doctor Who: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=7636list=BIOFUEL Yes, that was a pretty interesting post. Whatever happened to Doctor Who? I think he got bounced off the list by Yahoo. We've lost scores of members that way, and there's nothing I can do about it (quite yet). But I guess he moved on anyway, or he'd have resubscribed. On the Yahoo Groups owners list (independent) they talk of Yahoo's VP in charge of making list owners hate them, the only person there who definitely deserves a bonus (and a long vacation on full pay). I'm not convinced the air car's such a dumb idea. It was supposed to launch in South Africa this year. Any news on that? Once it gets into use somewhere it could possibly be developed quite a lot further. A google search yields these further links: Very exciting-looking, but upon further examination a year or two old. Mentions a 100+ mile range with modest acceleration. http://www.sunwaterco.com/aircar.html A message board post from a couple of months ago which lists a lot of other links: http://www.realgoods.com/board/tdoc.cfm?td=481tm=2086tstart=1#1 One of the links is apparently a yahoo discussion group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mdiaircar/ I'm interested to know the real latest on this. It looks like things have really moved along quite a bit. I'm also interested to get a much better handle on the energy efficiencies of refueling. Thanks for these. I agree, we definitely need an update. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ram Press has arrived!
Hi Jesse See Oilseed presses http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress Keith Fantastic Ken. So you spent about $600 on getting it here? Can you post some pictures of it? I did a Google search on it but found nothing. Jesse Parris | studio53 | graphics / web design | stamford, ct | 203.324.4371 www.jesseparris.com/Portfolio_Jesse_Parris/ - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 12:14 AM Subject: [biofuel] Ram Press has arrived! Just a little update on my new Hela Mk II Vegetable Oil Ram Press... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] When a Crop Becomes King
Hello Alan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://premium.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storyu=/nytp/20020719/071200; .bail=http%3a%2f%2fpremium.news.yahoo.com%2frd%3fr%3dsolar Did anyone catch this July 19 NY Times article before it went to pay-for-access? Was it any good? Here's a link to the article elsewhere. Probably where the Times got it. And you don't have to pay for it. http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0719-01.htm Also here, cheaper than free! http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=15476list=BIOFUEL But I think Common Dreams got it from the Times, Michael Pollan writes for the Times occasionally. Nice piece. Keith AP -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.com Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ram Press has arrived!
It's manual labor...I get the reference to the muscular women now. Maybe I need to stop looking for my Weider Super Pec and Deltoid machine on Ebay and get with the program. Jesse Parris | studio53 | graphics / web design | stamford, ct | 203.324.4371 www.jesseparris.com/Portfolio_Jesse_Parris/ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ram Press has arrived! Hi Jesse See Oilseed presses http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ram Press has arrived!
Keith writes: Did you grow the seed? Excellent to take it full cycle. That's the plan, but I only have 14 sunflowers and 0.001 acre of mustard growing right now, and they won't be ready for another month or so. (Aaahh, that California growing season!) I'll be retiring to 5 acres in the Gold Country someday, tho... I'm a bit tickled that you've imported an appropriate technology press from Tanzania, and find it good. I keep saying there's at least as much need for AT in the industrialized countries as in the Third World. Absolutely. They are much more interested in getting the job done with a minimum of complexity. The Western way seems always to throw a ton of money at a problem, and then charge likewise for the solution. How much [oil] would you need? Average fuel use is about 10 gallons a week. Sunflowers should give 800 kg/hectare, but you should get more than that if you do it yourself small-scale, but say 800 anyway. That's 267 litres, 70 US gallons, so you'd need about eight hectares, 20 acres. Hm. Quite a lot. According to hort.purdue.edu, average yields are 900-1575 kg/ha, with a high of over 3000! But it'd leave you with 5.5 tons of high-grade seedcake to use as stockfeed, and you could use some of the manure to generate methane, the rest to fertilize the sunflowers and everything else, use the pigs as ploughs... Amen to all that! Also the dried stalks have good fuel value. And in the years I'm rotating with flax, I get fiber for linen, pumpkins make pumpkin pie and jack-o-lanterns, etc. etc. Pig lard and chickenfat would help. Not on MY farm :-)!!-K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Range Was: Air car.
Whatever happened to Doctor Who? I think he got bounced off the list by Yahoo. We've lost scores of members that way, and there's nothing I can do about it (quite yet). But I guess he moved on anyway, or he'd have resubscribed. On the Yahoo Groups owners list (independent) they talk of Yahoo's VP in charge of making list owners hate them, the only person there who definitely deserves a bonus (and a long vacation on full pay). One thing I'd like to see is a feature whereby when we sign up for a neew group we can deliberately download, as fresh new email, the last two or three hundred emails, so that we can get a sense going backward of ground that has been covered. This would allow me, for example, to study the aircar group without having the stupid web access cumbersomeness. We're all just taking a risk with yahoo that they won't blow it. It's always been completely obvious that message-boarding is a critical part of internet life and that the keepers of boards that were not web-based-to-be-deleted have a chance to sort of build some momentum, but I don't trust yahoo to get it. They've wiped out of existence web-based discussions I've had. The only reason I do this is that Usenet bugs me and with this I can get convenient ways to keep my email... my compositions (however worthless some may find them) are not lost forever. I think web-based discussion is not good. You lose all your work. Maybe Socrates was ok with not preserving a written record of his comments, but he had Plato around to document his ideas didn't he? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Ram Press has arrived!
Dear Ken, Nice to hear that Ram press seems to do a lot. I also intended to purchase one, but i couldnt find the exact address of the supplier. Would you please let me know how i can purchase it. The address, e- mail of the supplier, etc. I am living in Turkey Best Regards Huseyin --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a little update on my new Hela Mk II Vegetable Oil Ram Press from ApproTEC Tanzania. It finally arrived, after going through Kilamanjaro, Amsterdam, Los Angeles (by mistake!), up to San Francisco, through customs, and back down to San Jose. Price for the press -- a mere $265 USD. Price for shipping and customs brokerage -- well, a lot more; I'd rather not dwell on that! Maybe I'll try to become the US distributor, and get those freight costs down The press is very robust, much more so than I expected. I ran three kinds of seed through it this morning -- black oil sunflower, brown mustard, and common flax. After getting the proper pressure setting (oil rate vs. seed cake rate), you get into the swing of it, and it goes pretty fast. I went through 3 kg. of seed in about half an hour, and I'm kind of a lightweight. Some of those burly Tanzanians (probly the women!) can do that much in 13 minutes, according to the manual 3 kg. of sunflower seed (with the shell still on) gives slightly over a liter of oil. Flax seems to be a little less, and mustard less still. The oils are settling overnite, and I'll be making biodiesel out of it shortly. Obviously one would need a MAJOR source of oilseed to make this endeavour any more than a laboratory curiosity, but it's great fun to get firsthand experience of where this oil really comes from... -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Ram Press has arrived!
Huseyin writes: Nice to hear that Ram press seems to do a lot. I also intended to purchase one, but i couldnt find the exact address of the supplier. Would you please let me know how i can purchase it. The address, e-mail of the supplier, etc. I am living in Turkey. Check out their website -- the oilpress page is http://www.approtec.org/tech_oil.shtml but the press shown and discussed there (Mafuta Mali) is an older design. The Hela Mk II is much more efficent and easier to operate. (I'll dig up a photo and send it to Keith for the Journey to Forever website.)Talk to Hugh C. Allen, [EMAIL PROTECTED] about getting one. Shipping costs should be much more reasonable for you Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] 9-yr old solves world peace, energy problems
In light of several of the ongoing discussions here: My 9-year old son was asking me why we (the USA) were going to war overseas, and I told him that there were several levels of reasons. First, because of the terrorism threat to our citizens, but also for a more subtle, disguised reason: our reliance on oil. I explained how our country's leaders have often acted militarily to protect oil and energy interests, and how the loss of crude would adversely affect our daily lives and pocketbooks. We talked about whether that was a good enough reason to justify killing, and I asked if there were any alternatives that he could think of. He thought about all this for a short while, then said, well that's stupid! Why don't we just develop more solar power and wind and stuff that doesn't use oil? Then we wouldn't be dependent on other countries, and we wouldn't have to go to war! Funny how our nation's leaders can't come to that conclusion in only 30 seconds, much less the 30 years since OPEC... -Joel R. Rutledge Wichita, Kansas Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Range Was: Air car.
Murdoch wrote: Whatever happened to Doctor Who? I think he got bounced off the list by Yahoo. We've lost scores of members that way, and there's nothing I can do about it (quite yet). But I guess he moved on anyway, or he'd have resubscribed. On the Yahoo Groups owners list (independent) they talk of Yahoo's VP in charge of making list owners hate them, the only person there who definitely deserves a bonus (and a long vacation on full pay). One thing I'd like to see is a feature whereby when we sign up for a neew group we can deliberately download, as fresh new email, the last two or three hundred emails, so that we can get a sense going backward of ground that has been covered. This would allow me, for example, to study the aircar group without having the stupid web access cumbersomeness. Point. Backtracking that far via Yahoo's web interface is hopeless. It didn't used to be hopeless, but, Yahoo screwed it up, they're not to be trusted, as you say. We're all just taking a risk with yahoo that they won't blow it. It's always been completely obvious that message-boarding is a critical part of internet life and that the keepers of boards that were not web-based-to-be-deleted have a chance to sort of build some momentum, but I don't trust yahoo to get it. They've wiped out of existence web-based discussions I've had. The only reason I do this is that Usenet bugs me and with this I can get convenient ways to keep my email... my compositions (however worthless some may find them) are not lost forever. I think web-based discussion is not good. You lose all your work. Maybe Socrates was ok with not preserving a written record of his comments, but he had Plato around to document his ideas didn't he? Did Plato use a Mac? :-) Fully agree with all this. It's silly not to keep everything. Deleting stuff means making advance judgments of what may or may not be useful in the future, and it just doesn't work. Just keep it all - the more there is the more depth it has, and irrelevant stuff in there just doesn't matter on a computer, it doesn't even slow it down when you're searching. According to Yahoo (new feature at the messages section), this group's whole archives is currently 66.3 of 512 MB (12%). That's not very much on a hard disk, for 16,500 messages, and it's a fabulous database. (Re not trusting Yahoo, we get 512 Mb because we're an older group, that was the standard amount with eGroups. But groups started after November 2001 only have 64Mb, and some only 32Mb, and as they reach that capacity Yahoo deletes the other end of the archives, great. They have no option.) This is just the problem with web boards - you don't get to keep anything unless you take a LOT of trouble, and I don't think anyone does that. So, no depth, no continuity. The way they're usually set up is opaque, and they're slow. I don't have any time for web boards, email's a much better tool. Your point about building momentum is quite right, IMO (of course I think this list is a good example!). The problem we have here is that about a third of the members use the no email - web only interface. I disagree with them, but of course it's none of my business, if that's what they've chosen that's what they should have, I don't have the right to force something else on them, nor would I want to. A lot of list owners have already taken their groups away from Yahoo, but I don't believe they've found good solutions. They go either to mailing lists or to web boards. The mailing list software doesn't have a good web interface, if any - best you'll get is a web-based archives, but not a full interface where you can read, post and respond. And the web boards don't have mailing list functions, except some that have a mail-out feature - when a new message is posted at the web board, it's emailed to members who've chosen that option, but they can't reply by email: at the bottom of the message is a url that takes them to the right place on the web board to reply there. That's sort of half-acceptable, at least you could get everything on your hard disk that way. But that would mean sort of hobbling the email users for the sake of the web board guys, no way. There is a solution, though not an easy one, but the results should be good. I've been working at this for months now, I'm appalled that it's taking so long, but it looks like we're getting there at last. I don't want to raise hopes prematurely or talk too much about a bird that isn't yet in the hand, though it's not in the bush anymore either. But don't lose hope. Yet. And touch wood (please!) that Yahoo doesn't blow it in the meantime - all the signs are there. Fortunately they're most ponderous when it comes to implementing anything new. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM
Re: [biofuel] Range Was: Air car.
The problem we have here is that about a third of the members use the no email - web only interface. I think that a very large percentage of those folks probably do not understand, at all, the point of messaging via email and simply see the web as understandable and convenient, never knowing what they're missing. A lot of them probably think it would be somewhat difficult to set up the email thing so as to not interfere with their regular email, and so forth. I wonder if there would be a way to make an option that one could not use or sign up for a group except as an email group. That would make it a de facto email listclub in full, facilitated by yahoo, and that would be great. If folks want to do archived web-chat, that's their business, but I think most of them would be ok with the email format once they saw how easy and advantageous it is, and, oh by the way, conducive to more-rational better conversation. I shudder to think of the work I spent on messages I left on webchat (aka yahoo boards prior to a certain point, such as the HIPC board) that are lost forever. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Nanotubes
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison Anyway, isn't this what SF writers call a monofilament? Monofilament is only one molecule/atom thick in total from edge to edge ( think of monofilament fishing line, not very thin, but, that is due to the size of the molecule in the first place ). The Buckytubes have a thickness of one carbon atom for each wall, so, that is two walls plus the interior of the cylinder in thickness total. From what I understand of the technology, the maximum diameter of a Buckytube is only limited but the molecular strength of the material ( carbon in this case ). SF monofilaments can cut through anything. If it's that type of monofilament, 500 bucks for a gram of it would be a good buy - that sounds like a whole lot of nanotube. That would be, if it was one continuous tube. Most are shorter that than anyone of the letters in this e-mail. Greg H. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ram Press has arrived!
I wonder how much oil is in pumpkin seed? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 12:44 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ram Press has arrived! Amen to all that! Also the dried stalks have good fuel value. And in the years I'm rotating with flax, I get fiber for linen, pumpkins make pumpkin pie and jack-o-lanterns, etc. etc. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Range Was: Air car.
Thank you all for all your response. I seem to think what it all comes down to is practicality. H2 is great ... but only on paper. I'm correct right?? The no-need-big-range .. I understand, as I AM one of those fervent EV'ers!! Disappointing though, how lead-acid batteries ... though recyclable .. statistically gets dumped ... sigh. Everyone's probably wondering why I'm SO adamantly comparing automotive propulsion unit?? Well, besides the obvious What's best for America's future thoughts I have I've also been considering converting a used ICE used car to something-else power. Right now, I'm planning (someday) to convert a car into a EV. I tried powering a ICE with Hydrogen once upon a time. Now ... this air-car thing (awe, shoots) got me fascinated. Heck, maybe I'll get parts together to make a 5 mile range air-car!! My family'll tell you .. I'm always doing crazy thing like that. Again, thanks to everyone for the technology side-by-side comparo. It has been very (and this list always continues to be!!) VERY ENLIGHTENING!! Thanks, Curtis --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's the third time it's been discussed here, pretty similar each time. --snip--- As far as hydrogen is concerned, I much agree with Steve about the difference between an air leak and a hydrogen leak, also it seems most hydrogen is intended to come from or via fossil fuels. And hydrogen is difficult to contain, it eats its way out. Range isn't everything - snip-- Separate argument (row, actually) was over batteries, with a fervent EVer claiming batteries were THE recycling success story. Turned out betwen 4 and 7 million defunct car batteries a year get dumped rather than recycled in the US, where there's a good recycling infrastructure for them, unlike in Third World countries where there's no infrastructure, yet people think it's a Good Thing to install PVs. (I've seen ground-up lead-acid batteries sold to farmers as zinc fertilizer.) = Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ram Press has arrived!
57 gallons / acre Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards: http://www.green-trust.org Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ram Press has arrived! I wonder how much oil is in pumpkin seed? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 12:44 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ram Press has arrived! Amen to all that! Also the dried stalks have good fuel value. And in the years I'm rotating with flax, I get fiber for linen, pumpkins make pumpkin pie and jack-o-lanterns, etc. etc. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hi from Australia
Hi Doug. Im in Adelaide! Just sent an email to Neil asking for some tips etc. Still trying to work out which method to use! Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Tony --- Doug Foskey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Sun, 15 Sep 2002 20:36, you wrote: Hi all, I've just found your group are very interested in making Bio Diesel. I have been collecting lots of info from the web, it all seems to good to be true. I want to make as small trial batch before I get into it in a bigger way. Are there any problems running a turbo diesel engine on Bio diesel, as this is my main objective. Any hints or tips for a first time maker? Cheers Tony Tony, where R U in Aus?? (I'm in N -NSW, there is Neil in ACT also) I run a Supercharged Mazda 626, a Peugeot 405SRDT on Bd. regards Doug Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. http://digital.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Digital How To - Get the best out of your PC! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] source of ethanol
Hello, I'm new to the group, and wanted to start off with a question - does anyone know of a good source of reasonably priced ethanol for making biodiesel? It doesn't need to be completely anhydrous (95% would be okay, I can use dessicants to remove the rest of the water), but it can NOT be denatured with gasoline. It would be okay to be denatured with methanol, but of course I'd prefer it if it were possible to get ethanol that hasn't been denatured at all. Thanks, Mike - Michael S. Briggs Never judge a man until you've UNH Physics Department walked a mile in his shoes. Then (603) 862-2828 when you do judge him, you'll be a mile away and you'll have his shoes. --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fw: ZECA
Interesting. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards: http://www.green-trust.org Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Timothy Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: sci.environment,sci.energy Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 10:39 PM Subject: ZECA ZECA (fromerly The Zero Emission Coal Alliance) has the exclusive option to license the clean coal technology deveoped by Los Alamos National Laboratory. See www.zeca.org/overview_docs.html for some good papers. The pdf Anaerobic Hydrogen Production: Precursor to Zero Emission Coal contains equations for the reactions including the all-important energy balances. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] LA Times Article Describing Near-End of Electric Vehicle Efforts in California
Lest Biofuel Fans take over-much solace in problems of getting EV's built: note please the over-anxiousness of the journalist, in this and other cases, to do the bidding and the quoting of the standard Auto-Industry Oil-Industry line. This lack of critical inquiry is a hallmark of journalists' coverage I've seen of the issue. They generally simply accept the explanations that are given them by the Industry Spokesmen. I'm sure you all know, when the Oil Industry decides the same should be true of a biofuel issues: Look Out. MM http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-cars15sep15.story?coll=la%2Dheadline s%2Dcalifornia State Takes Sharp Turn on Emissions Cars: With electric vehicles still impractical, hybrids and gasoline engines are showing unexpected promise. By GARY POLAKOVIC TIMES STAFF WRITER September 15 2002 California set out boldly 12 years ago to fill the highways with smog-free, electric cars, but today air quality officials are quietly admitting failure and embarking on a new strategy to cut tailpipe emissions. The planned rollout date for the zero-emission vehicle is at hand. But the arrival of fully functional and affordable electric cars is nowhere in sight, as vacant battery-charging parking spaces at shopping centers attest. As early as January, the state Air Resources Board is expected to overhaul its regulations, moving away from electric cars and emphasizing promising new technologies instead. These include extraordinarily clean gasoline engines and hybrid cars powered by a combination of batteries and a small combustion engine. The new technologies, which were not anticipated when the electric-vehicle program began in 1990, are just now beginning to come into their own. We put a lot of faith in battery electric vehicles to meet the [zero-emission vehicle] mandate but, in spite of significant efforts, batteries have inherent limitations, said Alan C. Lloyd, chairman of the state air board. We're not giving up on the goal of the zero-emission vehicle, but we have to be realistic. No matter how you cut it, it is disappointing, Lloyd said. Despite the failure to produce electric cars, the progress on other fronts has buoyed hopes that ultra-clean, if not battery-powered, cars are on the horizon. That is good news. Without dramatically cleaner cars, trucks and vans, smog centers such as Los Angeles, Bakersfield and San Bernardino will have little hope for healthy, blue skies. Vehicles release about two-thirds of all smog-forming pollutants across California, creating a pall linked to bronchitis, asthma and cancer. The battery car never lived up to expectations because conventional lead-acid batteries don't produce enough power to make electric cars perform like vehicles with gasoline engines. More advanced batteries that improve performance still cost too much. The battery electric car is not going to be viable any time soon. It is dead on arrival, said Greg Dana, vice president of environmental affairs for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, which represents 12 of the world's biggest automakers. Other technologies, however, are advancing rapidly. Some, including hybrids and ultra-clean gasoline cars, are approaching near-zero levels of emission. For air quality officials, it is an unforeseen twist. Have technology-forcing regulations paid off? Absolutely. Did it pay off in the way we had hoped? No, Lloyd said. If you keep pushing technology and technology-forcing standards, you don't always know what will accrue, what the side benefits are. There have been side benefits, and there will be more benefits that would not have accrued without our push. Standards effective with the 2004 model year require that the cleanest new cars emit only one-twentieth the amount of smog-forming material as is released by cars on the road today. Recent tests at UC Riverside on 24 of those next-generation gasoline cars showed they exceed even the most stringent California standard, a result considered impossible several years ago. One Honda Accord, specially equipped with a sealed fuel tank and exhaust traps, produced virtually no air pollution, said James M. Lents, director of the Environmental Policy, Atmospheric Processes and Modeling Laboratory at UC Riverside. The air coming into the [car's] intake was more polluted than what was coming out of the tailpipe, Lents said. We can build some mighty clean gasoline cars today, a lot better than people have argued could be built. It is possible today to build gasoline vehicles that come close to zero pollution. The technology has gone so far. Hybrid cars are proliferating too. About 15,000 hybrids, led by the Toyota Prius and Honda's Insight and Civic, are on California highways, officials estimate. Toyota Motor Corp. plans to produce 300,000 worldwide in two years, while the Big Three auto makers have plans for hybrid vehicles beginning in 2004. The hybrids are powered by batteries in support of small gasoline engines. They
Re: [biofuel] source of ethanol
I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but isn't un-denatured ethanol moonshine/ATF ... uh, you know .??? Curtis --- Michael S Briggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..but it can NOT be denatured with gasoline. It would be okay to be denatured with methanol, but of course I'd prefer it if it were possible to get ethanol that hasn't been denatured at all. = Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] source of ethanol
Michael writes: does anyone know of a good source of reasonably priced ethanol for making biodiesel? It doesn't need to be completely anhydrous (95% would be okay, I can use dessicants to remove the rest of the water), but it can NOT be denatured with gasoline. It would be okay to be denatured with methanol, but of course I'd prefer it if it were possible to get ethanol that hasn't been denatured at all. In the US, that would always be taxed as beverage alcohol (I believe -- maybe there are some exceptions) and would be prohibitively expensive. Even denaturing only lowers the price by the tax -- still $5-$7 a gallon even in multi-drum quantities. It's the fuel-grade folks who really make huge quantities cheap ( $2 a gal) , and they all use gasoline as denaturant. What's your objection to that? By the way, only fuel-grade is typically grain-based, unless you especially buy (and pay extra for) so-called grain neutral spirits. And this stuff is rarely denatured, so you pay the tax as well. Most solvent stuff (paint stores, Home Depot, laboratory supply places, etc.) is made from ethylene (from petroleum) and is probly worse (environmentally) than methanol. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
