[biofuels-biz] Ethanol from Biomass
Does anyone know a good site for the latest info on the production of ethanol from biomass, waste, cellulose etc. I found some info on SWAN Biomass winning RD prizes in 1998 but was unable to find any sites with up to date info on the progress of this technology or of companies currently involved with this technology. Hope somebody can help. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] DaimlerChrysler's headquarters gate barricaded by Greenpeace activists
http://www.ananova.com/business/story/sm_704456.html?menu=business.lat estheadlines DaimlerChrysler's headquarters gate barricaded by Greenpeace activists Greenpeace activists barricaded the access road to DaimlerChrysler AG's headquarters in Stuttgart for five hours by setting up 28 hospital beds at its main gate to dramatize their protest against carmakers who do not equip diesel-powered cars with diesel emission filters. The activists and the beds were forcibly removed by police, a Greenpeace spokeswoman said. She said similar protests are planned against other car companies in the future to drive home the message that new and old diesel cars must be equipped with emission filters. DaimlerChrysler, reacting to Greenpeace's protest today, said in a statement it is constantly working on developing engines that reduce emissions and particles from fuel wastes. In our diesel motors, the priority is for a balanced reduction of all relevant emissions and not just of particles, it said, adding when it comes to such efforts, Mercedes-Benz is a leader in the world's automotive industry. © AFX News Story filed: 15:46 Wednesday 6th November 2002 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Smelliest trucks in US begin to belch cleaner
Tut tut... On the other hand: ... The study, by the Harvard Center for Risk Analysis (HCRA) at Harvard School of Public Health, found, among other things, that natural gas (LPG) reduces emissions of fine particulates, those smaller than 2.5 microns, but may generate more ultrafine particles than diesel, of less than 0.1 micron. Several studies indicate that ultrafine particles may have an even more dramatic impact on health than those in the fine category. It also found that LPG would increase greenhouse gas emissions, of C02, and of methane, which is approximately 20 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/press/releases/press1102000.html Full report (PDF, 205 KB): http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/Organizations/hcra/diesel/diesel.pdf http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/18503/story.htm Smelliest trucks in US begin to belch cleaner USA: November 8, 2002 NEW YORK - They rumble through the neighborhood at dawn, smell bad and are hard to drive past. But U.S. garbage trucks are becoming friendlier as the clouds of black diesel smoke they belch are slowly becoming a thing of the past, a green group said this week. The 179,000 garbage trucks in the United States consume 24 million barrels of diesel fuel annually, according to INFORM, a New York-based environmental group. Trash trucks are the least fuel-efficient vehicles on the road, averaging 2.8 miles per gallon, the group said in a report. The report, called Greening Garbage Trucks, surveyed 25 U.S. cities including New York, Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. It found that 90 percent of garbage trucks are powered by diesel fuel, but that the rest of the vehicles have converted to cleaner natural gas and liquefied natural gas (LNG). The gas-fueled trucks emit 70 percent to 90 percent less particulate matter than diesel, 30 percent to 70 percent less of acid rain component nitrogen oxide, and 10 percent less carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas thought by scientists to cause global warming by trapping the sun's heat in the Earth's atmosphere. In California the South Coast Air Management District mandates that townships replace diesel trucks with natural gas and NGL trucks as the conventional trucks retire. David Rodriguez, the fleet manager for the city of Santa Monica, California, said nearly all of the city's 22 garbage trucks have already been converted to run on natural gas and are equipped with John Deere 81 engines. They are holding up very very well, said Rodriguez when asked how the trucks perform versus conventional engines. FROM ROTTING GARBAGE TO FUELING TRUCKS The savings in greenhouse gas reductions of gas-fueled trucks has also helped Waste Management Inc. , the leading U.S. garbage hauler, garner greenhouse gas reduction credits. In turn, that helps it buy more green trucks. Under the California mandate, utility PGE Corp. has helped Waste Management pay for the conversion of trucks to run on natural gas and LNG. Waste Management's supply of emissions reductions allowed it to sell credits to a companies that needed to buy the right to emit greenhouse gases. PGE bought the credits to offset emissions of a power plant the company was building in San Diego county. Waste Management also siphons off potent greenhouse gas methane formed from rotting garbage at its landfills, which also helps the company get emissions credits. One day the methane may also fuel garbage trucks. Because we collect all this methane gas, we're trying to look into how do you convert methane gas from our landfills into LNG gas for our trucks, said Sarah Simpson, a Waste Management spokeswoman. It's something we think has a lot of potential, she added. Story by Timothy Gardner REUTERS NEWS SERVICE Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/jd3IAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Saturn SUV gets Greenwash Award
http://www.corpwatch.org/campaigns/PCD.jsp?articleid=4768 CorpWatch.org - Campaigns - Greenwash - Greenwash Awards - What Are They Thinking? GM Executives Must be Living on Saturn! An Ad for the Saturn VUETM Likens the SUV to Endangered Arctic Species By Kenny Bruno CorpWatch November 7, 2002 Ad Text: Introducing the Saturn VueTM. At home in almost any environment. There are several possible explanations for the astoundingly insensitive Introducing the Saturn VUE ad which ran in the March 11, 2002 edition of Newsweek. * Saturn/GM executives believe that what's good for General Motors is good for the environment, and vice versa. (Saturn is a wholly owned subsidiary of General Motors.) * Saturn/GM executives are so busy they have never heard of global warming or climate change. * Saturn/GM executives have a macabre sense of humor, and derive amusement from rubbing our noses in the degradation of the planet they help cause. * Saturn/GM executives are living on Saturn. Up until now, CorpWatch has never given a Greenwash Award to simple environmental image ads by auto companies. TV and print ads have so many examples of gas guzzling, unsafe cars incongruously pictured in dramatic natural landscapes that these ads are usually not original enough to deserve an Award. But the depiction of an SUV on what looks to be a melting polar ice floe in the company of wildlife is either so ironic, so arrogant or so ignorant (it's hard to tell which), that we have made an exception and given this Greenwash Award to Saturn and its parent company, GM. The irony is SUVs are one of the causes of global warming, and therefore of the melting polar ice that threatens many of the species pictured in the ad. GM SUVs, specifically, are a big part of the problem. Are GM executives trying to teach us about inhabitants of the polar regions because they realize those inhabitants may disappear due to climate change? Are they saying their vehicles can survive anywhere, even on melting ice caps, and therefore global warming is not a problem? Or are they just counting on the public to miss the connection between the SUV on the ice, and its role in causing that ice to melt? It's hard to say. It is not hard, however, to see the connection of American cars to global warming. The U.S. accounts for 25% of global carbon emissions, the largest greenhouse gas and most important cause of climate change. Of that 25%, about one third is caused by the transportation sector. Cars and light trucks make up 62% of those transportation related emissions. So cars and light trucks make up about 20% of all U.S. carbon emissions, or about 5% of the world's total. U.S. cars and light trucks alone emit more carbon than all sources from the entire nation of India, a country which auto executives are quick to point to in the debate over whether to limit emissions. GM vehicles alone account for about 1.65% of world carbon emissions - a substantial amount for a single company. It would be bad enough for the climate if GM simply made the most cars in the world (which it does). But, like the other major automakers, it has increased its output of SUVs in the 14 years since global warming was recognized as a serious environmental threat. As a result, the fuel efficiency of GM vehicles went down during the 1990's, and the company's burden on the climate increased. The Saturn VUE's fuel efficiency is not as bad as some SUVs (22 city, 28 highway), but GM's record as a whole gives it one of the biggest impacts on the climate of any company in the world. That impact is especially pronounced in the polar regions. As the US EPA notes, Climate models indicate that global warming will be felt most acutely at high latitudes, especially in the Arctic where reductions in sea ice and snow cover are expected to lead to the greatest relative temperature increases. The EPA goes on to report that these changes are already underway. Arctic temperatures are the warmest in 400 years. Snow cover has decreased 10% since the late 1960s. Alaska has warmed by an average of 4 degrees Fahrenheit since the 1950s, leading some glaciers to recede and thin. These changes seem to be linked to declining health of polar bears, as earlier spring ice break-up leaves less time for them to hunt seals. Increased precipitation and deeper snow pack due to climate change is also a likely culprit in the decline of caribou in Alaska. Some Alaskan native communities are dependent on these caribou herds for their survival and their way of life. In the Antarctic, researchers have linked global warming and related snow and ice patterns to a decline of penguin populations. That is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak, in terms of the mountain of evidence linking global warming and the decline of the wildlife depicted in the Saturn VUE ad. If the caribou only knew, they would shun the VUE. At home in any environment? In a twisted way,
Re: [biofuels-biz] Ethanol from Biomass
Does anyone know a good site for the latest info on the production of ethanol from biomass, waste, cellulose etc. I found some info on SWAN Biomass winning RD prizes in 1998 but was unable to find any sites with up to date info on the progress of this technology or of companies currently involved with this technology. Hope somebody can help. Thre's some info here: http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#cellulose Best Keith Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now Direct Democracy
For Hakan to be right about the UN the states that are members would have to, at least the majority, be democracies and as that is not the case in the vast majority of members it causes the concept to not work and is one of the main causes of the ongoing failures of the UN to get much done. When you are made up of corrupt states it is hard to not be corrupt. Best regards, Vern csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com net cc: Subject: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now 11/09/02 08:12 AM Direct Democracy Please respond to biofuel ... somewhat represent a world democracy is UN??ÊÊ Democracy must be shown at a global level to survive?? Pardon if I offend anyone on this list ... but the concept of a world democracy makes me very nervous.Ê It, by the way it is sometimes talked about, implies in an unsaid way the existence of a so-called global-level government. ... to which all so-called governments must implicitly be subserveant to its global-level rules. This would to me imply that, in the same way we in America have a City-n-County level State Government level ... and Federal Government level, there would be a new level ... a Global Government level. to which our President (Clinton/Bush/Etc) would relate as a Governor does to a President.Ê Only in this case it would be ... what .. a Global President.?? And then what??Ê Would President Vladamir Putin also be a Governor??Ê Of the Russian Region??Ê Would Arafat be a Governor??Ê Of the Palestinian region?? Then countries wouldn't be countries anymore ... but only States (with Governors) in a what??Ê A Global Country??Ê The one-world country?? What would happen to our illustrious document the Constitution?? I ... dunno Hakan.ÊÊ I see where you're coming from ... and I understand what you mean.Ê But I'm not sure if that's the way to handle it.Ê It sets a very eerie precedence.Ê And makes me very nervous. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now we have democracies based on countries and different organizations of appointment of governments. The only body that somewhat represent a world democracy is UN. I really hope that we can show respect this time and not repeat history. Democracy will not work, if we do not introduce it on a world wide basis and condemn any kind of occupation. Democracy must be shown at a global level to survive. The way that US and some others behave is by no definition to describe as international democracy. We must nurture and respect UN as a body at any cost, otherwise we will repeat history and democracy becomes a theatric farce. - Introducing NetZero Long Distance 1st month Free! Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Help find NEFCo marketing the DoS process
I found at http://www.herzo-agenda21.de that there is a process called Dos (Direktverflussigung Organischer Oubstanzen) or Direct Liquefaction of organic materials. It seems that this process have been developped at the Technical University of Hamburg-Harburg and is being marked by a company named NEFCo. Can someone tell me the adress, telephone or website of this company. Regards Guillaume Murere Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fwd: RE: [biofuels-biz] Digest Number 394
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith, I'd like to take this opportunity to express my admiration at the restraint you (and others) have been able to show in dealing with what I perceive to be a 'Corporate Raider'. I am not currently capable of it. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now Direct Democracy
Dear Curtis, At 11:12 PM 11/8/2002 -0600, you wrote: ... somewhat represent a world democracy is UN?? Democracy must be shown at a global level to survive?? Long term it is, otherwise we will repeat the 2,500 year old story. Pardon if I offend anyone on this list ... but the concept of a world democracy makes me very nervous. It, by the way it is sometimes talked about, implies in an unsaid way the existence of a so-called global-level government. ... to which all so-called governments must implicitly be subserveant to its global-level rules. You are seeing some start of it, with the International war crime court, that US do not accept. It is not necessary a global government, but rather a network of international arbitration institutions. We already have some them. This would to me imply that, in the same way we in America have a City-n-County level State Government level ... and Federal Government level, there would be a new level ... a Global Government level. to which our President (Clinton/Bush/Etc) would relate as a Governor does to a President. Only in this case it would be ... what .. a Global President.?? Again, the organization does not have to map US democratic republic. The key is democracy not organization, I think that you mix the things up. I am not sure that Bush stands out as a particular and better world leader, than many others. And then what?? Would President Vladamir Putin also be a Governor?? Of the Russian Region?? Would Arafat be a Governor?? Of the Palestinian region?? Democracy is respect and participation by the people and their representatives, not a single state or federation of states. In some respect it is already working with UN. I can not see a global country as feasible, but democratic decisions, yes. You are tying yourself up with a US organization and this is probably not the best nor fully democratic, since someone can be president against the will of the people, as the current one. Palestine is not a region, it is a country, created by UN as the same time as Israel and with the same rights. Why it did not work, was the ethnic cleansing performed by the Jewish population in Israel and the lack of implementation by the pursued, combined with a lack of recognition by the Arab nations. Then countries wouldn't be countries anymore ... but only States (with Governors) in a what?? A Global Country?? The one-world country?? Never said that. What would happen to our illustrious document the Constitution?? Why US have a constitution is because it is a new federal country. Most countries are to old to have a founders document, but are no lesser democracies because of that. Human rights existed in many countries long before US got out of practising slavery and suppression of minorities. I do not think that US have a particularly clean record. I ... dunno Hakan. I see where you're coming from ... and I understand what you mean. But I'm not sure if that's the way to handle it. It sets a very eerie precedence. And makes me very nervous. The only thing I promote is democracy, not a particular organization of it and for sure not the US model. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now we have democracies based on countries and different organizations of appointment of governments. The only body that somewhat represent a world democracy is UN. I really hope that we can show respect this time and not repeat history. Democracy will not work, if we do not introduce it on a world wide basis and condemn any kind of occupation. Democracy must be shown at a global level to survive. The way that US and some others behave is by no definition to describe as international democracy. We must nurture and respect UN as a body at any cost, otherwise we will repeat history and democracy becomes a theatric farce. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now Direct Democracy
If the definition by democracy is the will of the people and not the US republic democracy, you will be surprised if you sum them up. You will also be surprised of how many non-democracies that are supported by US. On the issue of corruption and manipulation, some of our most known democracies are quite good on that too. Hakan At 09:44 AM 11/9/2002 +0300, you wrote: For Hakan to be right about the UN the states that are members would have to, at least the majority, be democracies and as that is not the case in the vast majority of members it causes the concept to not work and is one of the main causes of the ongoing failures of the UN to get much done. When you are made up of corrupt states it is hard to not be corrupt. Best regards, Vern csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com net cc: Subject: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now 11/09/02 08:12 AM Direct Democracy Please respond to biofuel ... somewhat represent a world democracy is UN?? Democracy must be shown at a global level to survive?? Pardon if I offend anyone on this list ... but the concept of a world democracy makes me very nervous. It, by the way it is sometimes talked about, implies in an unsaid way the existence of a so-called global-level government. ... to which all so-called governments must implicitly be subserveant to its global-level rules. This would to me imply that, in the same way we in America have a City-n-County level State Government level ... and Federal Government level, there would be a new level ... a Global Government level. to which our President (Clinton/Bush/Etc) would relate as a Governor does to a President. Only in this case it would be ... what .. a Global President.?? And then what?? Would President Vladamir Putin also be a Governor?? Of the Russian Region?? Would Arafat be a Governor?? Of the Palestinian region?? Then countries wouldn't be countries anymore ... but only States (with Governors) in a what?? A Global Country?? The one-world country?? What would happen to our illustrious document the Constitution?? I ... dunno Hakan. I see where you're coming from ... and I understand what you mean. But I'm not sure if that's the way to handle it. It sets a very eerie precedence. And makes me very nervous. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now we have democracies based on countries and different organizations of appointment of governments. The only body that somewhat represent a world democracy is UN. I really hope that we can show respect this time and not repeat history. Democracy will not work, if we do not introduce it on a world wide basis and condemn any kind of occupation. Democracy must be shown at a global level to survive. The way that US and some others behave is by no definition to describe as international democracy. We must nurture and respect UN as a body at any cost, otherwise we will repeat history and democracy becomes a theatric farce. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now Direct Democracy
It's not only eerie, it's outright unacceptable. Sam, John, the UN is coming, the UN is coming.. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:12 AM Subject: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now Direct Democracy ... somewhat represent a world democracy is UN?? Democracy must be shown at a global level to survive?? Pardon if I offend anyone on this list ... but the concept of a world democracy makes me very nervous. It, by the way it is sometimes talked about, implies in an unsaid way the existence of a so-called global-level government. ... to which all so-called governments must implicitly be subserveant to its global-level rules. This would to me imply that, in the same way we in America have a City-n-County level State Government level ... and Federal Government level, there would be a new level ... a Global Government level. to which our President (Clinton/Bush/Etc) would relate as a Governor does to a President. Only in this case it would be ... what .. a Global President.?? And then what?? Would President Vladamir Putin also be a Governor?? Of the Russian Region?? Would Arafat be a Governor?? Of the Palestinian region?? Then countries wouldn't be countries anymore ... but only States (with Governors) in a what?? A Global Country?? The one-world country?? What would happen to our illustrious document the Constitution?? I ... dunno Hakan. I see where you're coming from ... and I understand what you mean. But I'm not sure if that's the way to handle it. It sets a very eerie precedence. And makes me very nervous. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now we have democracies based on countries and different organizations of appointment of governments. The only body that somewhat represent a world democracy is UN. I really hope that we can show respect this time and not repeat history. Democracy will not work, if we do not introduce it on a world wide basis and condemn any kind of occupation. Democracy must be shown at a global level to survive. The way that US and some others behave is by no definition to describe as international democracy. We must nurture and respect UN as a body at any cost, otherwise we will repeat history and democracy becomes a theatric farce. - Introducing NetZero Long Distance 1st month Free! Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fwd: RE: [biofuels-biz] Digest Number 394
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith, I'd like to take this opportunity to express my admiration at the restraint you (and others) have been able to show in dealing with what I perceive to be a 'Corporate Raider'. I am not currently capable of it. Motie Hi Motie I'm really sorry you're taking such a lot of prolonged pressure, my friend. I'm aware of it, I believe many of us are, and it distresses me. I wish there were something we could do to help you. If there is, you should please say so. 'Corporate Raider' - yeah, maybe. :-) I wish he'd stop blustering and either put up or shut up. I'd much rather he put up than shut up though, I'd really like some straight answers, I think we all would. Still, he tells us a lot, doesn't he? Perhaps without realising it. Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now Direct Democracy
For Hakan to be right about the UN the states that are members would have to, at least the majority, be democracies and as that is not the case in the vast majority of members it causes the concept to not work and is one of the main causes of the ongoing failures of the UN to get much done. When you are made up of corrupt states it is hard to not be corrupt. Best regards, Vern Funny idea, that the US has been some kind of champion of democracy in the wide world, which is what you seem to think. Jonas Savimbi, Mobutu Sese Seko, Pinochet, Marcos, Sukarno, White South Africa, the Sauds, the Shah... ah hell, I'll save my fingers from typing such a long list of fine democrats. Of course there's now a growing charge-sheet against US-based and other corporations sowing corruption in 3rd World countries, corporations mostly stemming from the nations which hogtied the UN in the first place. Your positioning of democracies on the one side and corrupt states on the other is naive in the extreme. Keith csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com net cc: Subject: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now 11/09/02 08:12 AM Direct Democracy Please respond to biofuel ... somewhat represent a world democracy is UN?? Democracy must be shown at a global level to survive?? Pardon if I offend anyone on this list ... but the concept of a world democracy makes me very nervous. It, by the way it is sometimes talked about, implies in an unsaid way the existence of a so-called global-level government. ... to which all so-called governments must implicitly be subserveant to its global-level rules. This would to me imply that, in the same way we in America have a City-n-County level State Government level ... and Federal Government level, there would be a new level ... a Global Government level. to which our President (Clinton/Bush/Etc) would relate as a Governor does to a President. Only in this case it would be ... what .. a Global President.?? And then what?? Would President Vladamir Putin also be a Governor?? Of the Russian Region?? Would Arafat be a Governor?? Of the Palestinian region?? Then countries wouldn't be countries anymore ... but only States (with Governors) in a what?? A Global Country?? The one-world country?? What would happen to our illustrious document the Constitution?? I ... dunno Hakan. I see where you're coming from ... and I understand what you mean. But I'm not sure if that's the way to handle it. It sets a very eerie precedence. And makes me very nervous. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now we have democracies based on countries and different organizations of appointment of governments. The only body that somewhat represent a world democracy is UN. I really hope that we can show respect this time and not repeat history. Democracy will not work, if we do not introduce it on a world wide basis and condemn any kind of occupation. Democracy must be shown at a global level to survive. The way that US and some others behave is by no definition to describe as international democracy. We must nurture and respect UN as a body at any cost, otherwise we will repeat history and democracy becomes a theatric farce. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now Direct Democracy
The spirit of nationality is a sour ferment of the old wine of tribalism in the new bottles of democracy. Within which neither works out too well. Nations are an anachronism, and have been for quite a long time, leading to a very large proportion of the problems, destruction, corruption, and indeed lack of democracy in the world today. Is there even really such a thing as a nation? What do people relate to? By the time you start rallying to a flag, you've been well and truly spun. What you feel for, on the other hand, is your town, your neighbourhood, your valley, not those weird people in the next town. We have to outgrow this rather recent, cobbled-together, misbegotten concept of nations. And sod the Skunk Hollow weirdos in the next valley - but you'd probably be thrilled to pair off as sister-cities with those nice foreign folks in Outer Otjiwarongo, well-known as you are for your kindness and hospitality to strangers. So, Curtis, before Whitey arrived, what sort of place was this delusion you call America? The Native Americans would have looked at the nation you now hang a flag of pride over in much the same way as you're looking at what Hakan proposes, no? Would they have been wrong? Maybe not... considering what many people, including many Americans, are saying about the behaviour of the American government of today - a New World Order global government by default, and not one to be trusted. To put it more strongly, one that isn't at all trusted, not even by Americans - perhaps especially not by Americans. And there's not a thing anyone can do about it. Out of control, a rogue at large. From The Washington Times a couple of days ago - not exactly a left-wing propaganda sheet: If Americans do not increasingly come to understand that this nation is at risk because of the international animosity and disdain building against us, then, ultimately, those reactions and conditions are likely to reach back and do further damage to the domestic issues that so dominate politics. http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20021106-16015406.htm Policy issues not found on ballots One World, yes - the only way forward. It's only in America that you find this terror of the global government, a peculiarly American paranoia that makes no real sense. A Cold War hangover maybe. Anyway, I don't think it's a global government as such that's being proposed. It's not just Hakan who proposes what he proposed, not at all, it goes back a long way, as he intimated, and in many ways it's THE great debate of the age. We ought to start finding some solutions, and right sharpish, while we still have the chance. The UN was emasculated from the start - by the very nations who then conveniently claim it doesn't work, never mind that that's the way they wanted it, and still do, so they can tilt the playing field their way and call it level. How many UN resolutions on the Middle East has the US vetoed? And if it hadn't? Would the crisis have grown and grown the way it has to the lethal and intractable problem it's now become? Almost certainly not. Hakan's dead right, no matter how much many Americans might struggle with the idea. Yes, give me a world where Bush and Putin et al are only governors any time. Make it soon! Keith ... somewhat represent a world democracy is UN?? Democracy must be shown at a global level to survive?? Pardon if I offend anyone on this list ... but the concept of a world democracy makes me very nervous. It, by the way it is sometimes talked about, implies in an unsaid way the existence of a so-called global-level government. ... to which all so-called governments must implicitly be subserveant to its global-level rules. This would to me imply that, in the same way we in America have a City-n-County level State Government level ... and Federal Government level, there would be a new level ... a Global Government level. to which our President (Clinton/Bush/Etc) would relate as a Governor does to a President. Only in this case it would be ... what .. a Global President.?? And then what?? Would President Vladamir Putin also be a Governor?? Of the Russian Region?? Would Arafat be a Governor?? Of the Palestinian region?? Then countries wouldn't be countries anymore ... but only States (with Governors) in a what?? A Global Country?? The one-world country?? What would happen to our illustrious document the Constitution?? I ... dunno Hakan. I see where you're coming from ... and I understand what you mean. But I'm not sure if that's the way to handle it. It sets a very eerie precedence. And makes me very nervous. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now we have democracies based on countries and different organizations of appointment of governments. The only body that somewhat represent a world democracy is UN. I
Re: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now Direct Democracy
Hi Keith, I do not find any mention or defense of the US in my text and I agree with much of what you said. I do still maintain that there are many more countries represented at the UN that do not meet the Hakan test of a democracy and If we were to look at it from a one person one vote it would be even worse. That makes the UN a poor candidate for a Democratic World Government. Do please stop putting words in other peoples mouths and we could do with a lot less of your personal slander. If you used your mind in a constructive way I think you could make a valid point with out personal attacks. Best regards, Vern Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com orever.org cc: Subject: Re: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now Direct Democracy 11/09/02 04:42 PM Please respond to biofuel For Hakan to be right about the UN the states that are members would have to, at least the majority, be democracies and as that is not the case in the vast majority of members it causes the concept to not work and is one of the main causes of the ongoing failures of the UN to get much done. When you are made up of corrupt states it is hard to not be corrupt. Best regards, Vern Funny idea, that the US has been some kind of champion of democracy in the wide world, which is what you seem to think. Jonas Savimbi, Mobutu Sese Seko, Pinochet, Marcos, Sukarno, White South Africa, the Sauds, the Shah... ah hell, I'll save my fingers from typing such a long list of fine democrats. Of course there's now a growing charge-sheet against US-based and other corporations sowing corruption in 3rd World countries, corporations mostly stemming from the nations which hogtied the UN in the first place. Your positioning of democracies on the one side and corrupt states on the other is naive in the extreme. Keith Ê csakima Ê [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Ê net cc: ÊÊ Subject:Ê [biofuel] There's gotta be a better wayÊ Was: BP now Ê 11/09/02 08:12 AM Direct Democracy Ê Please respond to Ê biofuel ... somewhat represent a world democracy is UN??ÊÊ Democracy must be shown at a global level to survive?? Pardon if I offend anyone on this list ... but the concept of a world democracy makes me very nervous.Ê It, by the way it is sometimes talked about, implies in an unsaid way the existence of a so-called global-level government. ... to which all so-called governments must implicitly be subserveant to its global-level rules. This would to me imply that, in the same way we in America have a City-n-County level State Government level ... and Federal Government level, there would be a new level ... a Global Government level. to which our President (Clinton/Bush/Etc) would relate as a Governor does to a President.Ê Only in this case it would be ... what .. a Global President.?? And then what??Ê Would President Vladamir Putin also be a Governor??Ê Of the Russian Region??Ê Would Arafat be a Governor??Ê Of the Palestinian region?? Then countries wouldn't be countries anymore ... but only States (with Governors) in a what??Ê A Global Country??Ê The one-world country?? What would happen to our illustrious document the Constitution?? I ... dunno Hakan.ÊÊ I see where you're coming from ... and I understand what you mean.Ê But I'm not sure if that's the way to handle it.Ê It sets a very eerie precedence.Ê And makes me very nervous. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now we have democracies based on countries and
Re: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now Direct Democracy
I do still maintain that there are many more countries represented at the UN that do not meet the Hakan test of a democracy.. Iraq comes to mind. Chris Thornton 1991 VW Jetta GL 2 Door 1.6D - 233k miles 2000 VW Golf GLS 1.9TDI 130hp/229ftlbs - 73k miles 1998 VW Passat GLS 1.8T -- FOR SALE Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants Dealer #1098500 http://texastdi.com/6/ubb.x Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Politics
Alex writes: Suggest political discussions should be directed to political discussion groups--unless they directly empact on the production, distribution, and sale of bidiesel. Balderdash! In light of the recent elections in the US, which gave Bush the power to proceed, unrestrained, with his attacks on the environment, the sovereignty of nations, the rights of women, the US Constitution, etc., so-called political discussions have moved to the very TOP priority. Politics (in the broadest sense) is what we should ALL be discussing, at least until some sanity can be restored. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Politics
Suggest political discussions should be directed to political discussion groups--unless they directly empact on the production, distribution, and sale of bidiesel. Alex Landels We don't have a lot of rules here, but one of them is No topic cops. We have had this discussion a few times, between those who want topics restricted basically to what they want to talk about, and those who want to keep it open, who say that biofuels is a broad-ranging subject and should be dealt with in its context. If we followed your advice, those people - probably a majority - would be deprived, for your sake. On the other hand, keeping it open deprives you and those who agree with you of exactly nothing. Nobody's forcing you to read anything, right? If you're not interested, skip it. In fact I'd challenge you to decide what's on-topic and what's not - make a list, see if it makes sense. And if it does (doubtful), try to apply it. Then, try to keep it up to date. Don't forget there are people from more than a hundred countries here, to whom biofuels means many different things, you must cater to all of them and their views of the subject. Many of them state that it is not a subject that makes any sense shorn of its political context. Others state that it's an entirely political subject. You'd argue with that? You'd probably lose. Anyway, this is not a list for mere discussion of the production, distribution, and sale of biodiesel, it's a biofuels list, not just biodiesel. That said, people do at times stray right away from even a broad interpretation of the topic, but they seldom go too far, and it quite often brings up on-topic issues that would not otherwise have arisen. So, for all those reasons, there'll be no restriction of topics here. Keith Addison List owner Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Politics
The true American people saw the light and realized it's going to take a Republican run government to get anything done, and said so with their vote. Democrats are not patriots. They don't care what happened on 9/11. Dash-hole tried everything he could to stop Bush from protecting the Homeland. Now we can finally move ahead of partisan politics and get something done in this country. Chris Thornton 1991 VW Jetta GL 2 Door 1.6D - 233k miles 2000 VW Golf GLS 1.9TDI 130hp/229ftlbs - 73k miles 1998 VW Passat GLS 1.8T -- FOR SALE Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants Dealer #1098500 http://texastdi.com/6/ubb.x - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Politics Alex writes: Suggest political discussions should be directed to political discussion groups--unless they directly empact on the production, distribution, and sale of bidiesel. Balderdash! In light of the recent elections in the US, which gave Bush the power to proceed, unrestrained, with his attacks on the environment, the sovereignty of nations, the rights of women, the US Constitution, etc., so-called political discussions have moved to the very TOP priority. Politics (in the broadest sense) is what we should ALL be discussing, at least until some sanity can be restored. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now Direct Democracy
- Original Message - From: csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 22:12 Subject: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now Direct Democracy Pardon if I offend anyone on this list ... but the concept of a world democracy makes me very nervous. It, by the way it is sometimes talked about, implies in an unsaid way the existence of a so-called global-level government. ... to which all so-called governments must implicitly be subserveant to its global-level rules. It makes me very nervous as well. What would happen to our illustrious document the Constitution?? Thats just it, the Constution wouldn't matter any more. In fact some of the things that the UN, wants to ( and has done ) already infringe on the Constatution. And some of our solders have already paid the price for it. Some portions of the U.S.A. are already under UN control, If you goto what you think is a National Park or Refuge, and see a sign that says International Bio Reserve, that land is under control of a UN commitee, and the US Govt. has to check with the commitee befor it does anything extensive. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now Direct Democracy
Hi Keith, I do not find any mention or defense of the US in my text Didn't say there was, but it's your usual drift, isn't it? I said it's what you seem to think, and indeed it is. and I agree with much of what you said. I do still maintain that there are many more countries represented at the UN that do not meet the Hakan test of a democracy I don't think Hakan made such a test. I don't think you've understood what he said. Try reading it again. and If we were to look at it from a one person one vote it would be even worse. That makes the UN a poor candidate for a Democratic World Government. Hakan did not propose a Democratic World Government, he specifically didn't say that. He said the UN is the only organisation which somewhat represents a world democracy. No, not just a quibble. And the somewhat is important, he also said it's not very suitable in its present form. What difference does one person one vote make when non-person corporations that are inimical to democracy and the public interest can buy off the entire political apparatus? It's just a meaningless formula now, it obscures the reality as much as reveals it. How many of those increasingly meaningless votes even get cast? - or how few rather? You think that's what democracy means? You have to abandon these formulas and look at what really happens in people's lives. How about a rich country that didn't allow its women to vote until 13 years ago? Probably some backward oil sheikhdom in the Gulf or something, eh? Switzerland, actually. I think it's the oldest democracy in the world, going back to the 13th century, and much admired, though certainly not without its flaws. Everywhere you look you find exceptions to these simplistic formulas, both better and worse. I don't want to interpret what Hakan said, but I believe he was talking about realities, not just empty forms. Switzerland, by the way, modelled its current federal constitution on the US, in 1848. Government there is a very local business, strictly bottom-up, the federal government is tiny and hardly seems to matter. There's no clear division between the governing party and the opposition. The Swiss don't just vote once in four years, they seem to be voting most of the time - in fact they vote whenever they feel like it, it's a citizens' right to organize a referendum on just about anything. Interest and turnouts are high. Not so easy to recognise today's US in that mirror image, is it? Do please stop putting words in other peoples mouths and we could do with a lot less of your personal slander. If you used your mind in a constructive way I think you could make a valid point with out personal attacks. Now there's a thing. I wonder what Harmon thinks of that? You sure slandered him, without either provocation or justification. Slander, yes - what you said about him wasn't true. You were asked some pertinent questions about that, to which you never deigned to reply. Perhaps you should. Maybe they're kind of awkward for you, but at least try, it would help your credibility. Now please tell me who I've slandered, and exactly how? You put words in Harmon's mouth, now in Hakan's, you've misconstrued mine. You're rather heavily tarred with your own brush, Mr Vern. I doubt I'd be very impressed by your views on constructive use of the mind and what constitutes a valid point. Keith Best regards, Vern Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com orever.org cc: Subject: Re: [biofuel] There's gotta be a better way Was: BP now Direct Democracy 11/09/02 04:42 PM Please respond to biofuel For Hakan to be right about the UN the states that are members would have to, at least the majority, be democracies and as that is not the case in the vast majority of members it causes the concept to not work and is one of the main causes of the ongoing failures of the UN to get much done. When you are made up of corrupt states it is hard to not be corrupt. Best regards, Vern Funny idea, that the US has been some kind of champion of democracy in the wide world, which is what you seem to think. Jonas Savimbi, Mobutu Sese Seko, Pinochet, Marcos, Sukarno, White South Africa, the Sauds, the Shah... ah hell, I'll save my fingers from typing such a long list of fine democrats. Of course there's now a growing charge-sheet against US-based and other corporations sowing corruption in 3rd World countries, corporations mostly stemming from the nations which hogtied the UN in the first place. Your positioning of democracies on the one side and corrupt states on the other is naive in the extreme. Keith csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Re: [biofuel] Politics
Keith I think your full of your self and full of it so please de list me from 'your' discussion group. Alex Landels Hm, what a truly arresting response. At least he finally figured he has to unsub himself, which every message tells him twice, and duly did so. Bye bye! It's really difficult to think of a subject more fraught with politics than alternative energy. Anyway, it's only my discussion group when someone tries to screw it around and set the agenda their way. No, it's not set my way, it's not set at all, and that's how it's going to stay - a free-for-all, except for hijackers. Keith --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Suggest political discussions should be directed to political discussion groups--unless they directly empact on the production, distribution, and sale of bidiesel. Alex Landels We don't have a lot of rules here, but one of them is No topic cops. We have had this discussion a few times, between those who want topics restricted basically to what they want to talk about, and those who want to keep it open, who say that biofuels is a broad-ranging subject and should be dealt with in its context. If we followed your advice, those people - probably a majority - would be deprived, for your sake. On the other hand, keeping it open deprives you and those who agree with you of exactly nothing. Nobody's forcing you to read anything, right? If you're not interested, skip it. In fact I'd challenge you to decide what's on-topic and what's not - make a list, see if it makes sense. And if it does (doubtful), try to apply it. Then, try to keep it up to date. Don't forget there are people from more than a hundred countries here, to whom biofuels means many different things, you must cater to all of them and their views of the subject. Many of them state that it is not a subject that makes any sense shorn of its political context. Others state that it's an entirely political subject. You'd argue with that? You'd probably lose. Anyway, this is not a list for mere discussion of the production, distribution, and sale of biodiesel, it's a biofuels list, not just biodiesel. That said, people do at times stray right away from even a broad interpretation of the topic, but they seldom go too far, and it quite often brings up on-topic issues that would not otherwise have arisen. So, for all those reasons, there'll be no restriction of topics here. Keith Addison List owner Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Politics
Jerk the other knee? Thankyou! Keith The true American people saw the light and realized it's going to take a Republican run government to get anything done, and said so with their vote. Democrats are not patriots. They don't care what happened on 9/11. Dash-hole tried everything he could to stop Bush from protecting the Homeland. Now we can finally move ahead of partisan politics and get something done in this country. Chris Thornton 1991 VW Jetta GL 2 Door 1.6D - 233k miles 2000 VW Golf GLS 1.9TDI 130hp/229ftlbs - 73k miles 1998 VW Passat GLS 1.8T -- FOR SALE Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants Dealer #1098500 http://texastdi.com/6/ubb.x - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Politics Alex writes: Suggest political discussions should be directed to political discussion groups--unless they directly empact on the production, distribution, and sale of bidiesel. Balderdash! In light of the recent elections in the US, which gave Bush the power to proceed, unrestrained, with his attacks on the environment, the sovereignty of nations, the rights of women, the US Constitution, etc., so-called political discussions have moved to the very TOP priority. Politics (in the broadest sense) is what we should ALL be discussing, at least until some sanity can be restored. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Politics
The True American was blinded by fear of 9/11. John Ass-croft has insisted that the rights of average Americans are un-thoughtfully trampled and the average Joe (or more appropraitely Yusef) can be held unconditionally and for as long as Ass-croft wants. Bush got all of the lapdogs he needs in congress. There will be no partisian politics because the voice of the common man has been silenced. Now he will do everything to trample the rights of you and the rest of your bootlicking Republican, head nodding, assholes as well as the rest of us who actually give a shit about the world and our place in it. There is a difference between the power of government protecting the populace and squashing some regime they don't like. Too bad you have bought the lies. The truth sucks. Then again, you live in Texas... That says enough, fred --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], TexasTDI [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The true American people saw the light and realized it's going to take a Republican run government to get anything done, and said so with their vote. Democrats are not patriots. They don't care what happened on 9/11. Dash-hole tried everything he could to stop Bush from protecting the Homeland. Now we can finally move ahead of partisan politics and get something done in this country. Chris Thornton 1991 VW Jetta GL 2 Door 1.6D - 233k miles 2000 VW Golf GLS 1.9TDI 130hp/229ftlbs - 73k miles 1998 VW Passat GLS 1.8T -- FOR SALE Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants Dealer #1098500 http://texastdi.com/6/ubb.x - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Politics Alex writes: Suggest political discussions should be directed to political discussion groups--unless they directly empact on the production, distribution, and sale of bidiesel. Balderdash! In light of the recent elections in the US, which gave Bush the power to proceed, unrestrained, with his attacks on the environment, the sovereignty of nations, the rights of women, the US Constitution, etc., so-called political discussions have moved to the very TOP priority. Politics (in the broadest sense) is what we should ALL be discussing, at least until some sanity can be restored. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Politics
Unless the common man steps up to confront the evil in charge of this world today, we will all lose what ever rights we cherish. The NWO has steadily progressed with their agenda, until it is almost too late for us to change what they've planned. As distasteful as discussing politics is, I believe that we all better get involved or the only discussing we'll be doing is how to get off this planet. We are all victims of the propaganda machine and it breaks my heart to read that intelligent beings are so easily fooled by the steady diet of crap that the media feeds us. How can Americans read proof that Franklin Roosevelt not only knew about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor but, baited them into it to save our economy and then believe that the current administration is acting ethically and honestly with this supposed threat in the Middle East. How can we threaten war for possession of weapons that we also have. In fact, did you know that just one of our nuke subs has more firepower than all the ordinance used in WWII. For me the bottom line is that, we have throughout history been in a battle between rich and poor. Only now the media has convinced the majority of people that the rich are looking out for our best interests, and those that have risen above the poverty level are aiding this misconception, mostly because they're afraid to lose the comfortable status that they've attained. The NWO is soon to be a reality, let's do what we can to make it a fair deal for everyone. The time has come for all of us to get involved in world politics. Unless every citizen of the world gains the equal rights that Americans enjoy today, we will all end up with the same rights as the most abused have. The really weird thing is that one per cent of the world's population is dictating policy to the other 99%. The first thing we have to do is put an end to hate for our fellow man. We are all the same(or almost the same) in body, spirit, and daily needs, so please speak out until not one human dies of starvation or poor waste management. The poorest person in the world has the same desire to provide for his family as you do. We could make a good start by taking a family outing to the local park and just open a dialog or share your meal with someone who doesn't look just like you do. Peace, kris BTW, I killed 20 people in the name of peace for this country before my eyes were pried open. __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Aleks Kac's FOOLPROOF method
As interested as I am in the political discussion, I also have a very specific biodiesel question. In the section of J-to-F showing Aleks' acid-base method, picture 7 is labelled first-stage glycerine and shows a layer of glycerine under some biodiesel/oil combination. Was this a bit of fudging on his part, or maybe just a mislabelling? I've tried a lot of different ways to get a true TRANSesterification, with glycerine separation, using only conc. H2SO4 as a catalyst, and I've NEVER gotten it to work. Anybody out there ever had success as shown in picture 7 using only acid? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Politics
Dear Keith, I agree with Keith. Normally I do not like to discuss politics and religion, because of the entrenched fanatics that often are involved and the lack of progress of such discussions. Energy questions are so involved in our way of life, economical, political and society structures. It is important both to understand and put everything in the energy perspective, in order to put alternative energy and savings at the right priorities. It is impossible to promote and work with bio fuels, without touching the political issues. It is very enlightened and refreshing that you have this understanding. Hakan At 01:19 AM 11/10/2002 +0900, you wrote: Suggest political discussions should be directed to political discussion groups--unless they directly empact on the production, distribution, and sale of bidiesel. Alex Landels We don't have a lot of rules here, but one of them is No topic cops. We have had this discussion a few times, between those who want topics restricted basically to what they want to talk about, and those who want to keep it open, who say that biofuels is a broad-ranging subject and should be dealt with in its context. If we followed your advice, those people - probably a majority - would be deprived, for your sake. On the other hand, keeping it open deprives you and those who agree with you of exactly nothing. Nobody's forcing you to read anything, right? If you're not interested, skip it. In fact I'd challenge you to decide what's on-topic and what's not - make a list, see if it makes sense. And if it does (doubtful), try to apply it. Then, try to keep it up to date. Don't forget there are people from more than a hundred countries here, to whom biofuels means many different things, you must cater to all of them and their views of the subject. Many of them state that it is not a subject that makes any sense shorn of its political context. Others state that it's an entirely political subject. You'd argue with that? You'd probably lose. Anyway, this is not a list for mere discussion of the production, distribution, and sale of biodiesel, it's a biofuels list, not just biodiesel. That said, people do at times stray right away from even a broad interpretation of the topic, but they seldom go too far, and it quite often brings up on-topic issues that would not otherwise have arisen. So, for all those reasons, there'll be no restriction of topics here. Keith Addison List owner Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Still nervous!! Was: There's gotta be a better way
Well, I'm *still* nervous to what all this is leading up to.That's still legal right?? I mean ... to be nervous?? A few thing that I feel must be corrected though ... so as people may understand where I come from. As far a being spun by a flag, I understand where you come from. However, one thing that must be pointed out is that when I speak of America I speak constitutionally. To the Idealistic way our America's forefather's describe it ... you know ... that all men are created equal and with inalienable right (from God no less) . of the people .. by the people ... for the people .. you know ... the whole nine yards. That's MY America. Make no mistake about it. The America (quotes intented) we have today is insert cuss and swear word FAR, FAR from what is spoken of in the Constitution. The eroding of our Constitutional Right nowadays is a good example. Make no mistake about it. The America we have today is no longer America. I would agree ... that it HAS almost been turning into a ... ahem .. a Global Government. #2. So Curtis, before Whitey arrived?? That Whitey thing needs no explanation. Originally, I was born and raised in the Islands of Hawaii (Pearl City, HI 96782!!). So I understand, from the history of MY home state. what that's all about!! (Ancient Hawaiians - then ... until the White Man came). But remember, I'm still VERY nervous as to where this is all leading up to. All this UN Countries needing to back down to what the UN Resolution says ... etc. Bush needing to ask the UN security council as-though (on a global scale) he's only a Representative in the (one big) Global Senate. Well, I've expressed my feelings . Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is there even really such a thing as a nation? What do people relate to? By the time you start rallying to a flag, you've been well and truly spun. snip-- So, Curtis, before Whitey arrived, what sort of place was this delusion you call America? The Native Americans would have looked at the nation you now hang a flag of pride over in much the same way as you're looking at what Hakan proposes, no? Would they have been wrong? Maybe not... considering what many people, including many Americans, are saying about the behaviour of the American government of today - a New World Order global government by default, and not one to be trusted. To put it more strongly, one that isn't at all trusted, not even by Americans - perhaps especially not by Americans. And there's not a thing anyone can do about it. Out of control, a rogue at large. ---snip- ...never mind that that's the way they wanted it, and still do, so they can tilt the playing field their way and call it level. --snip Hakan's dead right, no matter how much many Americans might struggle with the idea. Yes, give me a world where Bush and Putin et al are only governors any time. Make it soon! - Introducing NetZero Long Distance 1st month Free! Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Still nervous!!, or....There's gotta be a better way
Curtis writes: All this UN Countries needing to back down to what the UN Resolution says ... etc. Bush needing to ask the UN security council as-though (on a global scale) he's only a Representative in the (one big) Global Senate. Probably the best way for people to live is in separate little tribes that run into each other so rarely they might be as tempted to trade stories and supplies as to fight. We won't be THERE again 'til after the next big asteroid strike. In the meantime, if we want to act like a unified planet, we need some unity. As long as people don't trust governments to do the right thing, the required unity can never come from a bigger type of government. What we need (hah!) is a worldwide effort to redefine how humans might organize themselves. I assume the nation-state would NOT be found to be the best way. In any case, some such planet-wide soul- searching is going to have to happen, sooner or later. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Politics
Hakan, As much as I disagree with some of the views you have .. I couldn't help but say that I agree whole-heartedly with your comment about how alot of these issues are related to one another. You put it very well!! Just had to say that. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Keith, I agree with Keith. Normally I do not like to discuss politics and religion, because of the entrenched fanatics that often are involved and the lack of progress of such discussions. Energy questions are so involved in our way of life, economical, political and society structures. It is important both to understand and put everything in the energy perspective, in order to put alternative energy and savings at the right priorities. It is impossible to promote and work with bio fuels, without touching the political issues. It is very enlightened and refreshing that you have this understanding. Hakan - Introducing NetZero Long Distance 1st month Free! Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] DaimlerChrysler's headquarters gate barricaded by Greenpeace activists
http://www.ananova.com/business/story/sm_704456.html?menu=business.lat estheadlines DaimlerChrysler's headquarters gate barricaded by Greenpeace activists Greenpeace activists barricaded the access road to DaimlerChrysler AG's headquarters in Stuttgart for five hours by setting up 28 hospital beds at its main gate to dramatize their protest against carmakers who do not equip diesel-powered cars with diesel emission filters. The activists and the beds were forcibly removed by police, a Greenpeace spokeswoman said. She said similar protests are planned against other car companies in the future to drive home the message that new and old diesel cars must be equipped with emission filters. DaimlerChrysler, reacting to Greenpeace's protest today, said in a statement it is constantly working on developing engines that reduce emissions and particles from fuel wastes. In our diesel motors, the priority is for a balanced reduction of all relevant emissions and not just of particles, it said, adding when it comes to such efforts, Mercedes-Benz is a leader in the world's automotive industry. © AFX News Story filed: 15:46 Wednesday 6th November 2002 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Smelliest trucks in US begin to belch cleaner
Tut tut... On the other hand: ... The study, by the Harvard Center for Risk Analysis (HCRA) at Harvard School of Public Health, found, among other things, that natural gas (LPG) reduces emissions of fine particulates, those smaller than 2.5 microns, but may generate more ultrafine particles than diesel, of less than 0.1 micron. Several studies indicate that ultrafine particles may have an even more dramatic impact on health than those in the fine category. It also found that LPG would increase greenhouse gas emissions, of C02, and of methane, which is approximately 20 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/press/releases/press1102000.html Full report (PDF, 205 KB): http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/Organizations/hcra/diesel/diesel.pdf http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/18503/story.htm Smelliest trucks in US begin to belch cleaner USA: November 8, 2002 NEW YORK - They rumble through the neighborhood at dawn, smell bad and are hard to drive past. But U.S. garbage trucks are becoming friendlier as the clouds of black diesel smoke they belch are slowly becoming a thing of the past, a green group said this week. The 179,000 garbage trucks in the United States consume 24 million barrels of diesel fuel annually, according to INFORM, a New York-based environmental group. Trash trucks are the least fuel-efficient vehicles on the road, averaging 2.8 miles per gallon, the group said in a report. The report, called Greening Garbage Trucks, surveyed 25 U.S. cities including New York, Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. It found that 90 percent of garbage trucks are powered by diesel fuel, but that the rest of the vehicles have converted to cleaner natural gas and liquefied natural gas (LNG). The gas-fueled trucks emit 70 percent to 90 percent less particulate matter than diesel, 30 percent to 70 percent less of acid rain component nitrogen oxide, and 10 percent less carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas thought by scientists to cause global warming by trapping the sun's heat in the Earth's atmosphere. In California the South Coast Air Management District mandates that townships replace diesel trucks with natural gas and NGL trucks as the conventional trucks retire. David Rodriguez, the fleet manager for the city of Santa Monica, California, said nearly all of the city's 22 garbage trucks have already been converted to run on natural gas and are equipped with John Deere 81 engines. They are holding up very very well, said Rodriguez when asked how the trucks perform versus conventional engines. FROM ROTTING GARBAGE TO FUELING TRUCKS The savings in greenhouse gas reductions of gas-fueled trucks has also helped Waste Management Inc. , the leading U.S. garbage hauler, garner greenhouse gas reduction credits. In turn, that helps it buy more green trucks. Under the California mandate, utility PGE Corp. has helped Waste Management pay for the conversion of trucks to run on natural gas and LNG. Waste Management's supply of emissions reductions allowed it to sell credits to a companies that needed to buy the right to emit greenhouse gases. PGE bought the credits to offset emissions of a power plant the company was building in San Diego county. Waste Management also siphons off potent greenhouse gas methane formed from rotting garbage at its landfills, which also helps the company get emissions credits. One day the methane may also fuel garbage trucks. Because we collect all this methane gas, we're trying to look into how do you convert methane gas from our landfills into LNG gas for our trucks, said Sarah Simpson, a Waste Management spokeswoman. It's something we think has a lot of potential, she added. Story by Timothy Gardner REUTERS NEWS SERVICE Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Aleks Kac's FOOLPROOF method
Hi Ken As interested as I am in the political discussion, I also have a very specific biodiesel question. It's okay, you're allowed to ask biodiesel questions too, LOL! In the section of J-to-F showing Aleks' acid-base method, picture 7 is labelled first-stage glycerine and shows a layer of glycerine under some biodiesel/oil combination. Was this a bit of fudging on his part, or maybe just a mislabelling? I've tried a lot of different ways to get a true TRANSesterification, with glycerine separation, using only conc. H2SO4 as a catalyst, and I've NEVER gotten it to work. Anybody out there ever had success as shown in picture 7 using only acid? It wasn't fudging on Aleks's part. Actually it's the original picture, from the original process. Last time Aleks updated it he changed the process quite a lot. When we were going through it all prior to uploading I queried the pics with him and he said they were okay. Later somebody wrote to me offlist asking the same question, about #7. I asked Aleks, and he said this: Everything it's like it should be. Different fats will give different colours, a large and small batch are never the same, you know, reaction kinetics is quite different in a small reactor than in a large one, this can affect product appearance ... I don't know. Photos are OK. So that's his experience. In the original process he drained the glyc after the 1st stage, now he doesn't. I've only used the process a few times, IIRC I've had 1st stage glyc and I think one time I didn't. Or was it more than one time? Sorry, can't remember. Anyway it worked okay, except with one batch of oil where nothing worked, it was badly polluted with something or other, and very high FFAs. To think people actually ate food cooked in that stuff, and paid for it too. There should be some transesterification in the 1st stage, but are you getting a good product at the end without it? Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Saturn SUV gets Greenwash Award
http://www.corpwatch.org/campaigns/PCD.jsp?articleid=4768 CorpWatch.org - Campaigns - Greenwash - Greenwash Awards - What Are They Thinking? GM Executives Must be Living on Saturn! An Ad for the Saturn VUETM Likens the SUV to Endangered Arctic Species By Kenny Bruno CorpWatch November 7, 2002 Ad Text: Introducing the Saturn VueTM. At home in almost any environment. There are several possible explanations for the astoundingly insensitive Introducing the Saturn VUE ad which ran in the March 11, 2002 edition of Newsweek. * Saturn/GM executives believe that what's good for General Motors is good for the environment, and vice versa. (Saturn is a wholly owned subsidiary of General Motors.) * Saturn/GM executives are so busy they have never heard of global warming or climate change. * Saturn/GM executives have a macabre sense of humor, and derive amusement from rubbing our noses in the degradation of the planet they help cause. * Saturn/GM executives are living on Saturn. Up until now, CorpWatch has never given a Greenwash Award to simple environmental image ads by auto companies. TV and print ads have so many examples of gas guzzling, unsafe cars incongruously pictured in dramatic natural landscapes that these ads are usually not original enough to deserve an Award. But the depiction of an SUV on what looks to be a melting polar ice floe in the company of wildlife is either so ironic, so arrogant or so ignorant (it's hard to tell which), that we have made an exception and given this Greenwash Award to Saturn and its parent company, GM. The irony is SUVs are one of the causes of global warming, and therefore of the melting polar ice that threatens many of the species pictured in the ad. GM SUVs, specifically, are a big part of the problem. Are GM executives trying to teach us about inhabitants of the polar regions because they realize those inhabitants may disappear due to climate change? Are they saying their vehicles can survive anywhere, even on melting ice caps, and therefore global warming is not a problem? Or are they just counting on the public to miss the connection between the SUV on the ice, and its role in causing that ice to melt? It's hard to say. It is not hard, however, to see the connection of American cars to global warming. The U.S. accounts for 25% of global carbon emissions, the largest greenhouse gas and most important cause of climate change. Of that 25%, about one third is caused by the transportation sector. Cars and light trucks make up 62% of those transportation related emissions. So cars and light trucks make up about 20% of all U.S. carbon emissions, or about 5% of the world's total. U.S. cars and light trucks alone emit more carbon than all sources from the entire nation of India, a country which auto executives are quick to point to in the debate over whether to limit emissions. GM vehicles alone account for about 1.65% of world carbon emissions - a substantial amount for a single company. It would be bad enough for the climate if GM simply made the most cars in the world (which it does). But, like the other major automakers, it has increased its output of SUVs in the 14 years since global warming was recognized as a serious environmental threat. As a result, the fuel efficiency of GM vehicles went down during the 1990's, and the company's burden on the climate increased. The Saturn VUE's fuel efficiency is not as bad as some SUVs (22 city, 28 highway), but GM's record as a whole gives it one of the biggest impacts on the climate of any company in the world. That impact is especially pronounced in the polar regions. As the US EPA notes, Climate models indicate that global warming will be felt most acutely at high latitudes, especially in the Arctic where reductions in sea ice and snow cover are expected to lead to the greatest relative temperature increases. The EPA goes on to report that these changes are already underway. Arctic temperatures are the warmest in 400 years. Snow cover has decreased 10% since the late 1960s. Alaska has warmed by an average of 4 degrees Fahrenheit since the 1950s, leading some glaciers to recede and thin. These changes seem to be linked to declining health of polar bears, as earlier spring ice break-up leaves less time for them to hunt seals. Increased precipitation and deeper snow pack due to climate change is also a likely culprit in the decline of caribou in Alaska. Some Alaskan native communities are dependent on these caribou herds for their survival and their way of life. In the Antarctic, researchers have linked global warming and related snow and ice patterns to a decline of penguin populations. That is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak, in terms of the mountain of evidence linking global warming and the decline of the wildlife depicted in the Saturn VUE ad. If the caribou only knew, they would shun the VUE. At home in any environment? In a twisted way,
[biofuel] Thanks Kris Was: Politics
It seems you see things almost exactly as I do. Thanks for showing me that what I see is at least one valid way to look at what's going on. And I thought I was going crazy and needed to be hauled away. (LOL!!) Maybe I *still* need to be!! (LOL!!). Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Kris Book [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unless the common man steps up to confront the evil in charge of this world today, we will all lose what ever rights we cherish. The NWO has steadily progressed with their agenda, until it is almost too late for us to change what they've planned. As distasteful as discussing politics is, I believe that we all better get involved or the only discussing we'll be doing is how to get off this planet. We are all victims of the propaganda machine and it breaks my heart to read that intelligent beings are so easily fooled by the steady diet of crap that the media feeds us. How can Americans read proof that Franklin Roosevelt not only knew about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor but, baited them into it to save our economy and then believe that the current administration is acting ethically and honestly with this supposed threat in the Middle East. How can we threaten war for possession of weapons that we also have. In fact, did you know that just one of our nuke subs has more firepower than all the ordinance used in WWII. For me the bottom line is that, we have throughout history been in a battle between rich and poor. Only now the media has convinced the majority of people that the rich are looking out for our best interests, and those that have risen above the poverty level are aiding this misconception, mostly because they're afraid to lose the comfortable status that they've attained. The NWO is soon to be a reality, let's do what we can to make it a fair deal for everyone. The time has come for all of us to get involved in world politics. Unless every citizen of the world gains the equal rights that Americans enjoy today, we will all end up with the same rights as the most abused have. The really weird thing is that one per cent of the world's population is dictating policy to the other 99%. The first thing we have to do is put an end to hate for our fellow man. We are all the same(or almost the same) in body, spirit, and daily needs, so please speak out until not one human dies of starvation or poor waste management. The poorest person in the world has the same desire to provide for his family as you do. We could make a good start by taking a family outing to the local park and just open a dialog or share your meal with someone who doesn't look just like you do. Peace, kris BTW, I killed 20 people in the name of peace for this country before my eyes were pried open. - Introducing NetZero Long Distance 1st month Free! Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Aleks Kac's FOOLPROOF method
Keith writes: .somebody wrote to me offlist asking the same question, about #7. I asked Aleks, and he said this: Everything is like it should be. Different fats will give different colours, a large and small batch are never the same, you know, reaction kinetics is quite different in a small reactor than in a large one, this can affect product appearance ... I don't know. Photos are OK. So that's his experience. ...I've only used the process a few times, IIRC I've had 1st stage glyc and I think one time I didn't. Or was it more than one time? There should be some transester- ification in the 1st stage, but are you getting a good product at the end without it? Actually, I'm trying to get transesterification without using alkali at all, with the eventual aim of substituting another kind of acid altogether. Solid acid catalysts, and ionic liquids, come in more varieties than alternative bases, and all of them can also handle FFAs at the same time. I'd like to get it to work just once with H2SO4, though, before messing with anything exotic. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Acid only reactions Was: Aleks Kac's FOOLPROOF method
I happen to catch this mid-thread. I thought the NaOH was an essential part of the biodieselic reaction (to make the methoxide). I didn't know you could use acid to catalyse the reaction!! Can you?? Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] It wasn't fudging on Aleks's part. Actually it's the original picture, from the original process. Last time Aleks updated it he changed the process quite a lot. When we were going through it all prior to uploading I queried the pics with him and he said they were okay. Later somebody wrote to me offlist asking the same question, about #7. I asked Aleks, and he said this: - Introducing NetZero Long Distance 1st month Free! Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Acid only reactions Was: Aleks Kac's FOOLPROOF method
Curtis writes: I happen to catch this mid-thread. I thought the NaOH was an essential part of the biodieselic reaction (to make the methoxide). I didn't know you could use acid to catalyse the reaction!! Can you?? That's sorta what we're trying to find out here, but it's supposed to work. Of course it doesn't make methoxide, it uses a completely different reaction mechanism. According to both Aleks and US Patent 4,695,411 it can be done with conc. H2SO4, and there are even better acids out there-K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Aleks Kac's FOOLPROOF method
Ken, that picture puzzled me too, when using acid/base I usually get only a small amount of brownish deposit in the bottom of vessel, a bit more than the ammount of acid used. Guess this is an indication of how little transesterification takes place in the acid catalysed reaction. Have you had any problems with residual acidity after the acid stage knocking out some of the alkali in the second stage? I usually titrate and adjust alkali level as for single base stage. Regards, Paul Gobert - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] As interested as I am in the political discussion, I also have a very specific biodiesel question. In the section of J-to-F showing Aleks' acid-base method, picture 7 is labelled first-stage glycerine and shows a layer of glycerine under some biodiesel/oil combination. Was this a bit of fudging on his part, or maybe just a mislabelling? I've tried a lot of different ways to get a true TRANSesterification, with glycerine separation, using only conc. H2SO4 as a catalyst, and I've NEVER gotten it to work. Anybody out there ever had success as shown in picture 7 using only acid? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Aleks' OLD method
Keith: Do you still have any records of Aleks' OLD method? Checking again US Patent 4,695,411, I see they typically autoclaved the alcohol, oil, and acid at something like 130C for 3 hours. The few examples they give where they just refluxed the mix (BP of ethanol = 78C), they ran it for 20-24 hours (!) Did Aleks used to reflux, or some- how otherwise boil without loss? If so, that could explain how he got glycerine separation. Now to just find an acid that does it more quickly at a reasonable temp.. Notice the US Patent discusses a method that works just fine with 95% ethanol and up to 50% FFAs. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Politics
Which side of the spectrum are we on this one? H.C.B. The day was like any other, warm, sunny, and they scheduled rain for the evening. For the last twenty years the air index has been on the low end of the tolerance range. It was determined the range itself couldn't be lowered further without massive filters being used to block the natural materials in the air. If fact, only a few knew that some particulate were spread just to keep the people and system healthy. The other little known fact was the true purpose of our jobs at the H.C.B. and with our matching organization F.B.C.B. which also was under the controlling eye of the W.C.B. Our control problems ended almost fifty years ago with the outstanding world population being overtaken by the number of our Union of Controllers in the matter of voting in all elections and decision making in what was separate nations. The homogeneous effect of all peoples of the world being controlled by a one like-minded organization made the evils of the past short lived. Wars and hunger soon went by the way side also. It was our thought that any loss of rights and privacy weigh little to the good of every being on earth and this thought is our guiding light that helps us through our daily work. Some would think we have the best job in the world, the helping of others in following the right path in everyone's 'Job 1' of doing no harm and making the world better to live. Our first line is the learning system where each person finds that all are equal and how they may serve us all. Still, some forget and revert to the instincts of the past. My job is both helping and sometimes applying corrective action as directed by our guidelines. Once in a while it is our great pleasure to go to the learning centers and tell of the job we are doing. We integrate the vile transgressions we've seen to show how we all need to protect our world for the future. The minor problem makers may have simply forgot themselves and may not have reused all they could. Some, for whatever reason, risk their own security by holding paper and not turning it in when found or try to buy food over their allotments. Very few make gender or racial references. The completely mixed up 'being' may try the old ways of eating meat, while others hold anger and lash out at our fellow beings by kicking or using a weapon on helpless natural life. Some of these ideas are so foreign to the younger ones that they will cry. These more sensitive blessed are presented with alternate activities while the others continue with the more solemn parts of the talk. The worse cases are what some were trying to call the 'natural protection syndrome'. Luckily, our system changed so we can counter this anti-culture with the only recourse, our own judges. Our final story is one of these, unbelievable to most children or adults. No one can remember where or when, just the chills it gives them by the hearing of it. The story is that one young responsible for a child tried to pull the child from one of our fellow being panthers. The 'wild being' was forth generation release of the prisons where they were kept. This 'being' doing its own rightful hunting within the city, pounced on the child. This crazed one who bore the child tried to take the child back. Not being able to do so, used an object as a weapon and struck the innocent panther, causing it to lose its meal. Luckily it wasn't harmed. The citizens around tried to correct the problem by holding back the ill creature and presented the meal again to the panther, but it was too troubled to return. Some think the penalty was light for this as the offender could only pay for such a thing once. Even had the child lived, it still would have been marked as a food source and joined the offender in the same way. These selfish acts are seldom seen. It is all of our hope that we can be of such use, to the world, before the time of weakness. A person can't describe the influence of this story has on the young ones, but if nothing else, it is remembered. This one story will keep many from straying from the natural order of life we have managed to return to. It is hard to make a better day than to help direct lives in such useful way. I'm glad the World Board selected my job to be at the Human Control Board. Although all our jobs, are as one, a world citizen couldn't be any more pleased in the way they could serve their fellow beings. Ken Provost wrote: Alex writes: Suggest political discussions should be directed to political discussion groups--unless they directly empact on the production, distribution, and sale of bidiesel. Balderdash! In light of the recent elections in the US, which gave Bush the power to proceed, unrestrained, with his attacks on the environment, the sovereignty of nations, the rights of women, the US Constitution, etc., so-called political discussions have moved to the very TOP priority.
Re: [biofuel] Aleks Kac's FOOLPROOF method
Paul Gobert writes: that picture puzzled me too, when using acid/base I usually get only a small amount of brownish deposit in the bottom of vessel, a bit more than the ammount of acid used. Guess this is an indication of how little transesterification takes place in the acid catalysed reaction. Have you had any problems with residual acidity after the acid stage knocking out some of the alkali in the second stage? I usually titrate and adjust alkali level as for single base stage. I'm trying to skip the base-catalyzed stage altogether. But yes, if you tried to do it that way, you'd need to neutralize the acid before the alkoxide could work. Too bad you couldn't just do a water wash to remove the H2SO4, but you'd remove the alcohol as well, of course. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] 1st day of biofuel class w/ Girl Mark
Hola Biofuelers, Today was the first day of a four part Biodiesel class at the Ecology center in Berkley. There was about twenty four people atending with Girl Mark teaching, and her trustworthy assistant 'Methman' (ie. Jeff) in tow. Below is a blow by blow of the first day. BTW, also got some pictures that if Keith would like to post or have a page dedicated to the class, just let me know. Didn't get a chance to use my Girlfriends Digital so these will have to be processed in the coming weeks. Might just post them on OFOTO with a little narration. Regards, James Slayden 9:30am - lost my way in to the location and ended up almost in Concord, Ca. Had to turn around on the 980 freeway and rely on some reverse direction intuition. 9:45am - Arrived at the Ecology Center in Berkley and a small group for the class started forming. Interesting I thought it would be more packed, but I think that people are more interested in the finished product than actually creating Biodiesel. 10am- Girl Mark was running late so I spent some time looking at all the sustainable information available at the Ecology Center. If your ever in Berkley definitely stop by the center just for all the other goodies! 10:15ish - Girl Mark shows up!! We get to helping unload and distribute her BD 'zine' and gear. We introduce ourselves and explain why we are taking the class. Class size is around 24. The price per class was great!! $15 - $60 sliding scale, almost a like a free will donation. You pay either at each class or for the whole series, very Berkley. =) 10:**am - Girl Mark starts in on the lecture portion of with some history of diesel, biodiesel, and some other good factiods. She makes a batch of blender BD with 'Methman' doing the dirty work. Girl Mark drills into us the safety precautions that should be taken. This will not be the first time this will be said. ;-) 12:30pm - Lunch!! Not that your interested, but I had a tofu scramble at a little cafe down the steet with some fellow class members. I find out that what seems to be the concensus - that this the first time for most of us. 1:15pm - Girl Mark dives right into titration!! Guess she figured we need to get the difficult stuff out of the way first. We split up into 4 groups and started practicing titration. It looked so easy when Girl Mark did it!!?? I now know how important measuring is and how easily it can be screwed up. Most of the members of our group titrate and come up with a consistant 1.75ml. The groups compare the numbers and we head out to the parking lot to do a biger batch. ??:??pm - Time flys when your having fun. We were going to do a methoxide batch, then Jeff thought he had some KOH and wanted to try that, so the blender batch of methoxide was scrapped and was made into another blender BD batch. Then Jeff found out that he forgot the KOH and we went back the the original plan. Some of the class members volunteered to be 'Methman' for some of the methoxide mixing which was kewl. I was a little scared of the chemicals so I passed on the opportunity (my own personal deamon). I will go for it next time though!! Need to get over that . 3:15pmClass was suppose to be over, but since we started late, and lots of questions put us over the time. I stayed to see the larger batch being mixed in small scale processor. Half the class had left (pity), so it was a chance to get up and close with the processing. BTW, Girl Mark brought two batch style, mixer processors made out of very convient and inexpensive materials (metal drums) easily found/made. Not being that machanically inclined, it's not very intimidating to see how simple the processor can be made. We talked a little bit about the processors and will go further into it later in the class. It was a great first day and I think we all got a great start in feeling comfortable with the process, titration, and working with the chemicals. It was a big suprise to most of us that it really is a simple process and quite amazing that we can make our own fuel. More to follow in the coming weeks (and pics). Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Politics
I didn't say anything about your state, so don't say anything about mine. Chris Thornton 1991 VW Jetta GL 2 Door 1.6D - 233k miles 2000 VW Golf GLS 1.9TDI 130hp/229ftlbs - 73k miles 1998 VW Passat GLS 1.8T -- FOR SALE Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants Dealer #1098500 http://texastdi.com/6/ubb.x - Original Message - From: fatguy1966 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 1:10 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Politics The True American was blinded by fear of 9/11. John Ass-croft has insisted that the rights of average Americans are un-thoughtfully trampled and the average Joe (or more appropraitely Yusef) can be held unconditionally and for as long as Ass-croft wants. Bush got all of the lapdogs he needs in congress. There will be no partisian politics because the voice of the common man has been silenced. Now he will do everything to trample the rights of you and the rest of your bootlicking Republican, head nodding, assholes as well as the rest of us who actually give a shit about the world and our place in it. There is a difference between the power of government protecting the populace and squashing some regime they don't like. Too bad you have bought the lies. The truth sucks. Then again, you live in Texas... That says enough, fred Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biofuel in Ontario
SVO Technologies is based near Toronto, ON contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.green-trust.org/svotech Give them a jingle. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: mark manchester [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biofuel in Ontario Thanks, Keith, for your encouragement and your keeping in touch. We are going to forge ahead! If I don't blow up the garage we'll tell you about it. Jesse and Emma -- From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biofuel in Ontario Date: Wed, Nov 6, 2002, 5:00 PM Hey there, Would there be anyone making biofuel in Ontario who'd be interested in teaching us how to make biofuel, like a workshop? We live in downtown Toronto. Thanks, Emma and Jesse No offers, eh? Why don't you just go ahead and do it? It's not difficult. Not many people here had anyone to teach them. We made our first biodiesel on the strength of a few paragraphs we found on the Internet, about all we could find at the time. Now there's great info to be had. Start here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html Make your own biodiesel Just do it - you'll be fine. Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] DaimlerChrysler's headquarters gate barricaded by Greenpeace activists
Don't blame the car manufacturers. Blame the diesel fuel producers. It's very hard to produce a clean burning diesel vehicle when you're forced to use high sulphur, rot-gut diesel. Chris Thornton 1991 VW Jetta GL 2 Door 1.6D - 233k miles 2000 VW Golf GLS 1.9TDI 130hp/229ftlbs - 73k miles 1998 VW Passat GLS 1.8T -- FOR SALE Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants Dealer #1098500 http://texastdi.com/6/ubb.x - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 3:18 PM Subject: [biofuel] DaimlerChrysler's headquarters gate barricaded by Greenpeace activists http://www.ananova.com/business/story/sm_704456.html?menu=business.lat estheadlines DaimlerChrysler's headquarters gate barricaded by Greenpeace activists Greenpeace activists barricaded the access road to DaimlerChrysler AG's headquarters in Stuttgart for five hours by setting up 28 hospital beds at its main gate to dramatize their protest against carmakers who do not equip diesel-powered cars with diesel emission filters. The activists and the beds were forcibly removed by police, a Greenpeace spokeswoman said. She said similar protests are planned against other car companies in the future to drive home the message that new and old diesel cars must be equipped with emission filters. DaimlerChrysler, reacting to Greenpeace's protest today, said in a statement it is constantly working on developing engines that reduce emissions and particles from fuel wastes. In our diesel motors, the priority is for a balanced reduction of all relevant emissions and not just of particles, it said, adding when it comes to such efforts, Mercedes-Benz is a leader in the world's automotive industry. © AFX News Story filed: 15:46 Wednesday 6th November 2002 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Politics
Right on, brother, right on! Clearly the best thing that could happen to the US at this point would be for Osama to light off one of his suitcase nukes in Washington, DC at the next state of the union address when *all* those scumbags were in town. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], fatguy1966 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The True American was blinded by fear of 9/11. John Ass-croft has insisted that the rights of average Americans are un-thoughtfully trampled and the average Joe (or more appropraitely Yusef) can be held unconditionally and for as long as Ass-croft wants. Bush got all of the lapdogs he needs in congress. There will be no partisian politics because the voice of the common man has been silenced. Now he will do everything to trample the rights of you and the rest of your bootlicking Republican, head nodding, assholes as well as the rest of us who actually give a shit about the world and our place in it. There is a difference between the power of government protecting the populace and squashing some regime they don't like. Too bad you have bought the lies. The truth sucks. Then again, you live in Texas... That says enough, fred --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], TexasTDI [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The true American people saw the light and realized it's going to take a Republican run government to get anything done, and said so with their vote. Democrats are not patriots. They don't care what happened on 9/11. Dash-hole tried everything he could to stop Bush from protecting the Homeland. Now we can finally move ahead of partisan politics and get something done in this country. Chris Thornton 1991 VW Jetta GL 2 Door 1.6D - 233k miles 2000 VW Golf GLS 1.9TDI 130hp/229ftlbs - 73k miles 1998 VW Passat GLS 1.8T -- FOR SALE Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants Dealer #1098500 http://texastdi.com/6/ubb.x - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Politics Alex writes: Suggest political discussions should be directed to political discussion groups--unless they directly empact on the production, distribution, and sale of bidiesel. Balderdash! In light of the recent elections in the US, which gave Bush the power to proceed, unrestrained, with his attacks on the environment, the sovereignty of nations, the rights of women, the US Constitution, etc., so-called political discussions have moved to the very TOP priority. Politics (in the broadest sense) is what we should ALL be discussing, at least until some sanity can be restored. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Politics
You are defintely not a lover of this country if you want a nuke to go off in this country. Chris Thornton 1991 VW Jetta GL 2 Door 1.6D - 233k miles 2000 VW Golf GLS 1.9TDI 130hp/229ftlbs - 73k miles 1998 VW Passat GLS 1.8T -- FOR SALE Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants Dealer #1098500 http://texastdi.com/6/ubb.x - Original Message - From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 10:10 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Politics Right on, brother, right on! Clearly the best thing that could happen to the US at this point would be for Osama to light off one of his suitcase nukes in Washington, DC at the next state of the union address when *all* those scumbags were in town. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Politics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], TexasTDI [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The true American people saw the light and realized it's going to take a Republican run government to get anything done, and said so with their vote. You are so incredibly full of shit. Democrats are not patriots. They don't care what happened on 9/11. Dash-hole tried everything he could to stop Bush from protecting the Homeland. Now we can finally move ahead of partisan politics and get something done in this country. Yeah, maybe we can now get on with the 2nd Civil War. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Politics
And you are a prick. Chris Thornton 1991 VW Jetta GL 2 Door 1.6D - 233k miles 2000 VW Golf GLS 1.9TDI 130hp/229ftlbs - 73k miles 1998 VW Passat GLS 1.8T -- FOR SALE Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants Dealer #1098500 http://texastdi.com/6/ubb.x - Original Message - From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 10:45 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Politics --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], TexasTDI [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The true American people saw the light and realized it's going to take a Republican run government to get anything done, and said so with their vote. You are so incredibly full of shit. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Aleks Kac's FOOLPROOF method
Hi Ken You might find this interesting, if you haven't already seen it: Research into Biodiesel Kinetics and Catalyst Development, by Adam Karl Khan, Department of Chemical Engineering, University of Queensland, 17 May 2002 -- Acrobat file, 432Kb: http://www.cheque.uq.edu.au/ugrad/chee4001/CHEE400102/Adam_Khan_Thesis.pdf Regards Keith Keith writes: .somebody wrote to me offlist asking the same question, about #7. I asked Aleks, and he said this: Everything is like it should be. Different fats will give different colours, a large and small batch are never the same, you know, reaction kinetics is quite different in a small reactor than in a large one, this can affect product appearance ... I don't know. Photos are OK. So that's his experience. ...I've only used the process a few times, IIRC I've had 1st stage glyc and I think one time I didn't. Or was it more than one time? There should be some transester- ification in the 1st stage, but are you getting a good product at the end without it? Actually, I'm trying to get transesterification without using alkali at all, with the eventual aim of substituting another kind of acid altogether. Solid acid catalysts, and ionic liquids, come in more varieties than alternative bases, and all of them can also handle FFAs at the same time. I'd like to get it to work just once with H2SO4, though, before messing with anything exotic. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Acid only reactions Was: Aleks Kac's FOOLPROOF method
Curtis writes: I happen to catch this mid-thread. I thought the NaOH was an essential part of the biodieselic reaction (to make the methoxide). I didn't know you could use acid to catalyse the reaction!! Can you?? That's sorta what we're trying to find out here, but it's supposed to work. Of course it doesn't make methoxide, it uses a completely different reaction mechanism. According to both Aleks and US Patent 4,695,411 it can be done with conc. H2SO4, and there are even better acids out there-K I understood only H2SO4 would work. No? Curtis, have a look at Aleks's page, he explains it quite well. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Foolproof biodiesel process: Journey to Forever The acid does esterification, with some transesterification, the base completes the transesterification. Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] DaimlerChrysler's headquarters gate barricaded by Greenpeace activists
Don't blame the car manufacturers. Blame the diesel fuel producers. It's very hard to produce a clean burning diesel vehicle when you're forced to use high sulphur, rot-gut diesel. Er, you're right, but that was in Germany, where they don't use lousy US high sulphur rot-gut diesel fuel, much better fuel there. Wow, just imagine if those German Greenpeacers were in the US!!! Keith Chris Thornton 1991 VW Jetta GL 2 Door 1.6D - 233k miles 2000 VW Golf GLS 1.9TDI 130hp/229ftlbs - 73k miles 1998 VW Passat GLS 1.8T -- FOR SALE Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants Dealer #1098500 http://texastdi.com/6/ubb.x - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 3:18 PM Subject: [biofuel] DaimlerChrysler's headquarters gate barricaded by Greenpeace activists http://www.ananova.com/business/story/sm_704456.html?menu=business.lat estheadlines DaimlerChrysler's headquarters gate barricaded by Greenpeace activists Greenpeace activists barricaded the access road to DaimlerChrysler AG's headquarters in Stuttgart for five hours by setting up 28 hospital beds at its main gate to dramatize their protest against carmakers who do not equip diesel-powered cars with diesel emission filters. The activists and the beds were forcibly removed by police, a Greenpeace spokeswoman said. She said similar protests are planned against other car companies in the future to drive home the message that new and old diesel cars must be equipped with emission filters. DaimlerChrysler, reacting to Greenpeace's protest today, said in a statement it is constantly working on developing engines that reduce emissions and particles from fuel wastes. In our diesel motors, the priority is for a balanced reduction of all relevant emissions and not just of particles, it said, adding when it comes to such efforts, Mercedes-Benz is a leader in the world's automotive industry. © AFX News Story filed: 15:46 Wednesday 6th November 2002 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
