Re: [biofuel] Golden Brown Biodiesel

[Appal Energy]

Franklin,

The coloration is due to the manner in which your feedstock was "fried."
Were the biodiesel from freshly rendered lard or tallow, your coloration
would be similar to SVO biodiesel.

Pretty much along the lines that whatever the color is going in is going to
produce a similar color coming out. In your case and most cases of well used
WVO this is an amber, rather than straw yellow.

Hemp seed oil is green going in and the biodiesel is also green. We've
produced biodiesel from hempseed oil that was allowed to sun bleach for
several months to a honey color. The biodiesel is also honey colored.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message - 
From: "Franklin B. Del Rosario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Biofuel " 
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 8:32 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Golden Brown Biodiesel


Hi to all

Any body from the group can give me an insight why my biosiesel from WVO
(corn oil-from steak restaurant) turn golden brown (like tea) instead of
golden yellow. I filtered the WVO with double layer cheese cloth and
remove water by heating my WVO. I follow Mike Pelly's recipe to the
letter. By the way I'm getting good result with my biodiesel from SVO.

Thanks
Frank


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[biofuel] Acid/Base strikes again...!!!

[Appal Energy]

Last April we threw a month old sample (15 gallons) of waste restaurant
grease into a black drum and let it bake and rot in the Ohio summer
heat...just for grins and giggles.

Well, having nothing better to do this week the time capsule was opened.

To no one's amazement the stuff was pretty ripe, with a layer of mold
covering the surface about an eighth of an inch deep. (Botulism delight!!!)
Mind you this stuff was the worst of the worst originally, having ~1 gallon
of burger pudding for every 4 gallons of immediately useable "oil."

A straight base batch offered a 54% yield using the equivalent of 16 grams
NaOH per liter of oil. (22.4 grams KOH)

An acid/base batch gave up a 97% yield using the equivalent of 5 grams NaOH
per liter of oil. (5.6 grams KOH)

Acid treatment was 1.5 ml per liter of "oil" for 24 hours at 130*F. (The
extra 1/2 ml contributed in part to the higher than normal amount of
caustic.)

So Alex Kac, this glass of home brewed Belgian Abbey Ale is for
youSalute!!!

Grease trap and grease interceptor waste here we come Yeah!

Todd Swearingen



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RE: [biofuel] GMC JIMMY

[HempCycle Webmaster]

If your Jimmy has the engine I think it has, you're in for a nightmare.
This engine is perhaps the worst engine, diesel or otherwise, designed
by General Motors.  In effect, it's basically a 350 small block
converted to run on diesel fuel.  I had the same engine in a 1981
Eldorado, and had nothing but trouble with the injector pump.

-Original Message-
From: Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 8:20 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] GMC JIMMY


Howdy everyone i am new to the list and have some questions which 
i hope someone can answer! i want to convert my 84 GMC Jimmy 
into a duel tank vegetable oil beast.  although i have herd that this 
process works "best" on indirect fuel injections, and since my 
Jimmy is a 8 cylinder it is a direct injection.  so i really need to
know 
will it work?!?!? i have been looking into the process for awhile now 
and am really excited to get started. also if anyone has any 
informaion on resources for the northern central parts of California 
would be much aprciated. thank you...

~oliver 




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Re: [biofuel] Handy alternative

[Walt Patrick]

At 04:28 PM 10/7/03 -0400, you wrote:
 >Hi Walt
 >I appreciate your friendly response :)

My pleasure. I'm enjoying following along.

 >An electrolysis cell can compress the effluent as well, but it requires
 >more energy.

Agreed.

 >I think you'll find that this cell requires more energy if
 >you're compressing the output to 3,000 PSI.

Agreed, but the use would be to consume excess wind energy and store it, so 
that's okay.

 >Any chemical reaction has factors that cause it to occur or slow down.
 >The ability for the gas to "get away" (the pressure) is a driving force
 >for the reaction.

Not sure I follow you there. As I recollect, in traditional electrolysis 
systems, an increase in either temperature pressure results in an increase 
in efficiency. Within limits, of course.

 >> 2) The patent indicates that the process uses 35 VDC and is 
 >> interruptible,
 >>which makes it a good match for intermittent wind power sites. It's also a
 >>lot simpler design than what's needed for standard electrolysis, something
 >>which helps the small user considerably.
 >>
 >>
 >An electrolysis cell is interruptable as well. I don't see how it is a
 >lot simpler. Do you?

I believe I do.

Part of it has to do with the need to separate the H2 from the O2 in a 
traditional electrolysis cell, and this patent's alleged ability to 
generate a non-explosive fuel gas that does not require separation.

Note: the technology described in the patent is significantly different 
from what's shown on the website.

The second big advantage is that you could drink the solution used in the 
patented system (a sugar/water solution is described in the patent) whereas 
the electrolyte used in traditional electrolysis cells is 30% KOH, a 
solution which requires skilled operators, special equipment and a high 
degree of caution and training in order to build and/or maintain the cell 
in working order.

A third advantage is that traditional cells require that you manage two gas 
output flows, one of which is coming off at twice the volume of the other, 
and that involves two storage tanks.

It's tricky to maintain and equal pressure within the cells when one 
element is off-gassing at twice the flow rate of the other.

A forth advantage, at least for us, is that we already have a good power 
supply to use to test out the process in the form of our hi-freq heli-arc 
welder. Although they don't mention using a hi-freq pulse to initiate the 
arc, that's how it's done in air.

FWIW, I'm part of an intentional community located on 111 acres in the 
woods (south central Washington state), and I have enough of a problem 
getting people here to comprehend the details of our gravity feed water 
system. Not that my fellows here are idiots, in fact they're quite bright, 
but anything I can do to make potentially hazardous systems "idiot proof" 
is generally worth doing.

Thanks for the interesting questions,

Walt
http://www.windward.org/ 



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[biofuel] Golden Brown Biodiesel

[Franklin B. Del Rosario]

Hi to all
 
Any body from the group can give me an insight why my biosiesel from WVO
(corn oil-from steak restaurant) turn golden brown (like tea) instead of
golden yellow. I filtered the WVO with double layer cheese cloth and
remove water by heating my WVO. I follow Mike Pellyâs recipe to the
letter. By the way Iâm getting good result with my biodiesel from SVO. 
 
Thanks 
Frank


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[biofuel] GMC JIMMY

[Oliver]

Howdy everyone i am new to the list and have some questions which 
i hope someone can answer! i want to convert my 84 GMC Jimmy 
into a duel tank vegetable oil beast.  although i have herd that this 
process works "best" on indirect fuel injections, and since my 
Jimmy is a 8 cylinder it is a direct injection.  so i really need to know 
will it work?!?!? i have been looking into the process for awhile now 
and am really excited to get started. also if anyone has any 
informaion on resources for the northern central parts of California 
would be much aprciated. thank you...

~oliver 



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[biofuel] oil BTUs?

[Brent]

Does anyone have the numbers on BTUs available in 1 litre of 
propaine, diesel and bio diesel?

Brent



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Re: [biofuel] Handy alternative

[Walt Patrick]

At 05:01 AM 10/8/03 +0900, Keith wrote:
 >Hello Walt
 >
 >All fair enough, just want to comment on this bit:

Please do :-)

 >For my part, I'm sceptical about these claims, but I'm not really
 >negative about it, though many are, "free energy" is almost a
 >blasphemy to some.

With just cause. It's a bit like Heinlein's comment that "When a man speaks 
of his honor, make him pay cash."

 >I do believe there's an answer to the energy
 >problem, a REAL answer, that remains to be found, but all the snake
 >oil doesn't help at all, it discourages and hampers any real
 >research. It's the scammers I'm against, not free energy per se.

I'm with you, although I'm personally more concerned with folks using 
alternative energy technology in an attempt to with a Darwin Award. I don't 
mind it so much when fools loose their money; I'd just rather they didn't 
lose body parts since it gives people grounds to talk.

 >So far the scepticism's been well-founded. Look at this one, for
 >instance, from about 18 months ago - I haven't checked the links, no
 >need, sadly:



Again, we're on the same page, probably the one that bears Jefferson's 
comment that,

those who wish to be
ignorant and free,
want what never was
and never soon shall be.

 >We had rather an interesting discussion here awhile back on what to
 >do if you'd discovered a viable, cheap, energy source anyone could
 >use anywhere, true energy independence - how would you handle it? How
 >would you stop it getting bought out and locked up in a little box in
 >back room somewhere, for instance?

There's nothing more radical than a working model of a better way, so I 
would (we are) just get on with it, build a working model of the concept, 
and see that the information was as widely dispersed as possible.

Here's an example from the current edition of our newsletter -
http://www.windward.org/notes/notes63/wal63_b.htm

 >"1635 - first of many English perpetual motion machine patents
 >granted. - by 1903, 600 such patents had been granted. Free energy
 >claimants love impressing people with patents (most people don't
 >understand that a patent can't promise feasibility)."
 >http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html

Well, a fool and his money are soon parted. [I do seem full of cliches 
these days, so I hope you'll bear with me :-)

Still, I'm more respectful of someone's assertions when they've gone 
through the exercise of filing a patent application, and been successful, 
than I am for those who have secret methods that they don't dare off up for 
public scrutiny because "you know who" will scarf up their work and cheat 
them out of their just rewards.

Pah!

My perspective is that it's a grand, never-ending relay race in which we 
each get the privilege of running a lap or two.

We stand on the shoulders of giants, and if we can advance the cause even a 
little bit, then that's great.

Well, back to work. Thanks for the kind words and the frank thoughts.

Walt
http://www.windward.org/



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution withplatinuminjection?

[Alex]

Bob,
thank you for pointing towards that very interesting web site - I'm not
going to buy
this device, since it doesn't look like I'll be able to recoup the cost with
fuel savings.
Alex
- Original Message -
From: Bob Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution
withplatinuminjection?


Alex wrote:

> I think that this concept is not a hoax.


quoting from an epa website

note thge last sentence

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/reports.htm


“The overall conclusion from these tests is that the
Platinum Gasaver did not significantly change vehicle
emissions or fuel economy for either the FTP or HFET.
device clearly did not produce the large -- greater than
2.0 mrcent -- fuel economy benefits claimed by the
manufacturer. Therefore, users of the device would not be
expected to realize either an emission or fuel economy
benefit. Vehicle operation and performance were unchanged by
the device”.



--
--
Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistryhttp://ozarker.org/bob

---
"Some scientists claim that Hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is
the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there
is more stupidity than Hydrogen, and that is the basic building block
of the universe." - Frank Zappa

---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]



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[biofuel] Building a Balancing Scooter

[Kirk]

Do it yourself Segway :)
Kirk
 
 http://www.tlb.org/scooter.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Free energy and magic dust, etc

[Appal Energy]

Knew a gal once who used to sleep with magnets insider her pillow.

Don't know if it was the magnets or the genetics, but there wasn't a doubt
in my mind that something had sucked out every lick of sense and half her
brains ta' boot.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:51 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Free energy and magic dust, etc


> Merlin
>
> >Dear Keith,
> >
> >Your ridicule of alternative energy technologies, and fuel
> >efficiency improvement technologies, is totally unscientific.
>
> No, I'm sceptical of totally unscientific free-energy and
> fuel-economy scams. Such as these:
>
> Eric Krieg lists 78 free energy scams here, doesn't seem to get into
> the zero-point stuff and instant cold fusion, so there's all that
> besides:
> http://www.syc.org/e/dennis4.html
> Eric's history of Perpetual Motion and Free Energy Machines
>
> Plus:
> How to become a Free Energy con man
> http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm
>
> And:
> The Museum of Unworkable Devices
> http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm
>
> It's still alive and well, the free energy scam industry, as Mr
> Scroot has warned.
>
> >Would you stake your life that there are no existing technologies
> >that can improve the efficiency of any internal combustion
> >engines, reduce emissions, and / or reduce wear and tear?
>
> Of course not.
>
> >Are
> >you omniscient? Do you know everything that can be known
> >about magnets and their potential applications in the energy
> >field?
>
> Once yet again, go and check out the archives, and you'll find that
> the list ban on magnets was indeed imposed by popular demand, and
> you'll see why.
>
> You are being insulting, and rather foolish, your barbs are ill-aimed
> and fail to strike home, and they might turn out to be boomerangs.
> You were not insulted, you were asked direct and valid questions
> about the information you posted and the claims you made, and you've
> responded with insults, sneers, labellings and disparagement - but no
> real answers to the questions. You're protesting much too loudly.
> Now, attend to business please: stop trying to distract and
> obfuscate, provide verifiable substantiation for the claims you've
> made about the fuelsaver and your relationship with the company,
> about platinum injection and your techniques for cheap extraction of
> platinum that you say deserve careful scrutiny. In other words, prove
> you're not a spammer. Best be quick about it.
>
> Keith Addison
> List owner
>
>
> >Arrogant contempt for new information is a major bar to human
> >progress.
> >
> >Are you, or anyone else, able to prove a priori that your current
> >knowledge is the sum total of all possible knowledge?
> >
> >Has science and technology reached its apotheosis, with no
> >further progress possible?
> >
> >Fortunately, there are fewer and fewer scientific and
> >technological obstructionists like you whose pronouncements
> >about "the law of entropy" and invocation of other primitive "laws
> >of nature" to disprove any assertion outside of your narrow
> >worldviews.
> >
> >Increasingly, humanity is maturing into an objective, informed,
> >humble, curious and open state of mind which acknowledges
> >the incompleteness of human knowledge and the inevitable,
> >unlimited forward  march of progress in all aspects of living,
> >insofar as we are willing to be open to new discoveries and
> >revise our imperfect understanding of the universe.
> >
> >Merlin
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
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>
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>
>
>


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Energy

[Appal Energy]

Mr. Spencer,

Would you please be so kind as to include the message or parts of the
message(s) to which you refer to as "all of the above," especially when you
make such sweeping and condescending remarks as you have below.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message - 
From: "merlinsaintgermain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 7:40 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Energy


All the above sounds like an investigation worthy of the Spanish
Inquisition. Prejudice in science and technology seems to work
exactly the same way as in religion, health, and all other aspects
of life.

I'm not saying that aquafuels is not a scam, just that your
process of analysis betrays more about your prejudices than it
reveals about the alleged technology.

Apparently many biodiesel fanatics are just as bigotted as
gasoline fanatics.

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which
is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a
man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to
investigation.
- Herbert Spencer





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Re: [biofuel] Re: Free energy and magic dust, etc

[Hakan Falk]

Keith,

At 07:49 PM 10/7/2003, you wrote:
> >Keith,
> >
> >Link did not work for me, probably it was obsolete and
> >deleted after Bush published his energy plan.
> >
> >Hakan
>
>:-) Perhaps. But then why isn't the second one dead? - "How to become
>a Free Energy con man". Or am I missing something? LOL!

Could Bush maybe use the second one as source reference? -:))

Hakan


>Sorry Hakan, I usually check links first, but these worked not long ago, IIRC.
>
>This one does work:
>
>http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html
>Eric's history of Perpetual Motion and Free Energy Machines
>
>The other two are okay.
>
> >Plus:
> >How to become a Free Energy con man
> >http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm
> >
> >And:
> >The Museum of Unworkable Devices
> >http://www.lhup.edu/~dsi 
> manek/museum/unwork.htm
>
>Regards
>
>Keith
>
>
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that is very close to my heart, go to:
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Re: [biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with platinuminjection?

[Bob Allen]

Alex wrote:

> I think that this concept is not a hoax.


quoting from an epa website

note thge last sentence

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/reports.htm


“The overall conclusion from these tests is that the
Platinum Gasaver did not significantly change vehicle
emissions or fuel economy for either the FTP or HFET.
device clearly did not produce the large -- greater than
2.0 mrcent -- fuel economy benefits claimed by the
manufacturer. Therefore, users of the device would not be
expected to realize either an emission or fuel economy
benefit. Vehicle operation and performance were unchanged by
the device”.



-- 
--
Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistryhttp://ozarker.org/bob
---
"Some scientists claim that Hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is
the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there
is more stupidity than Hydrogen, and that is the basic building block
of the universe." - Frank Zappa

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Re: [biofuel] Handy alternative

[Martin]

Hi Walt
I appreciate your friendly response :)
I've added comments in the message below.

-- 
--
Martin Klingensmith
http://infoarchive.net/
http://nnytech.net/



Walt Patrick wrote:

>At 01:10 PM 10/7/03 -0400, Martin wrote:
> >It's just another way of creating hydrogen from water, while burning some
> >carbon in the process creating CO2
> >What's the big deal?
>
>   Doesn't have to be a big deal in order to serve as a handy alternative 
> in 
>some cases.
>  
>
That's true, there are many 'alternatives'.

>   Our focus here is on converting biomass to methanol, and one of the 
> things 
>that's hard to use up is sawdust. It appears from the patents that it would 
>be possible to operate that system using a fluidized bed of sawdust and 
>generate CO and H2 which would be both storable and compressible, something 
>which a mix of O2 and H2 ain't.
>   
>
That's interesting, maybe I will try that.

>   Given the new "room temp" co-catalyst methanol technology, having such 
> a 
>handy source for syngas adds a nice degree of flexibility. Especially in 
>the set-up / break down/ try it again stage.
>
>
>   I'm further intrigued with this because:
>
>   1) The process is not pressure dependent.
>
>   It's easy enough to compress a liquid to 3,000 psi; it's a whole lot 
> more 
>difficult to compress a gas to that degree. By being able to build to the 
>desired pressure within the reactor unit itself, you can get the 
>compression needed to fill aluminum scuba tanks.
>
>   I've got enough room under the bed of my pickup to easily mount eight 
> 80 
>CF  tanks, and that's a respectable amount of fuel which will get me down 
>the road quite a ways before I run out and have to switch back to purchased 
>fuel.
>
>   The key there is that by getting the first 50 miles "for free," and 
> being 
>able to switch back to propane when that runs out, I can cut down 
>considerably on the total amount of fuel which needs to be purchased.
>  
>
An electrolysis cell can compress the effluent as well, but it requires 
more energy. I think you'll find that this cell requires more energy if 
you're compressing the output to 3,000 PSI.
Any chemical reaction has factors that cause it to occur or slow down. 
The ability for the gas to "get away" (the pressure) is a driving force 
for the reaction.

>   2) The patent indicates that the process uses 35 VDC and is 
> interruptible, 
>which makes it a good match for intermittent wind power sites. It's also a 
>lot simpler design than what's needed for standard electrolysis, something 
>which helps the small user considerably.
>  
>
An electrolysis cell is interruptable as well. I don't see how it is a 
lot simpler. Do you?
electrolysis cell: two plates
aquagas (?) cell: two carbon rods + something to strike the arc and 
regulate the voltage

>   While I appreciate the skepticism, and agree that there's a lot of 
> snake 
>oil out there, I'm more than ready to give the benefit of the doubt to 
>articles that list actual patent numbers.
>
>with best wishes,
>
>Walt
>http://www.windward.org/
>
>   
>  
>




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Re: [biofuel] Handy alternative

[Keith Addison]

Hello Walt

All fair enough, just want to comment on this bit:



>   While I appreciate the skepticism, and agree that there's a 
>lot of snake
>oil out there,

For my part, I'm sceptical about these claims, but I'm not really 
negative about it, though many are, "free energy" is almost a 
blasphemy to some. I do believe there's an answer to the energy 
problem, a REAL answer, that remains to be found, but all the snake 
oil doesn't help at all, it discourages and hampers any real 
research. It's the scammers I'm against, not free energy per se.

So far the scepticism's been well-founded. Look at this one, for 
instance, from about 18 months ago - I haven't checked the links, no 
need, sadly:

Irish inventor says he's cracked world's energy needs
Wednesday, January 23, 2002
By Kevin Smith, Reuters
http://www.remnantsaints.com/AlternativeUtilities/free_energy_Ireland.htm

http://www.cosmiverse.com/science01230206.html
Science News
Irish Inventor Constructs Free Energy Device
this device is so phenomenal that it "shatters the laws of science".

http://www.chennaionline.com/science/invent.asp
The power of invention
A multi-meter reading of the batteries' voltage before the device 
started up showed a total of 48.9 volts. When it was switched off, a 
second reading showed 51.2 volts...

And a website! - and a promise:

http://www.jasker.com/
Jasker Power Systems International
It is our objective to launch the Jasker Power Systems technology on 
a global basis. Details will be posted on our web-site as they are 
released.

And now:

http://www.jasker.com/
jasker.com :: this domain is for sale
www.jasker.com  $600
The owners of the domain name jasker.com are accepting offers from 
interested parties willing to obtain ownership rights over the domain 
name. You can place your bid by filling out the form below.

:-(

You see.

We had rather an interesting discussion here awhile back on what to 
do if you'd discovered a viable, cheap, energy source anyone could 
use anywhere, true energy independence - how would you handle it? How 
would you stop it getting bought out and locked up in a little box in 
back room somewhere, for instance?

>I'm more than ready to give the benefit of the doubt to
>articles that list actual patent numbers.

"1635 - first of many English perpetual motion machine patents 
granted. - by 1903, 600 such patents had been granted. Free energy 
claimants love impressing people with patents (most people don't 
understand that a patent can't promise feasibility)."
http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html

Best

Keith

>with best wishes,
>
>Walt
>http://www.windward.org/


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Re: [biofuel] Trans-esterification with enzymatic process.

[Keith Addison]

>Hello Biofuel group members,
>
>I understand that it is possible to make Biodiesel also by enzymatic 
>conversion of oils. This process is said to avoid hazardous 
>chemicals such as the strong Alkali's and Methanol. Could some body 
>enlighten me on this possibility

Do an archive search for "enzyme" (which will also find you some 
ethanol refs), "lipase", "solid catalyst":
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Check the "More on this subject" links.

>and whether it is being used in commercial scale any where?

I don't think so, nor by homebrewers, it's lab stuff.

>Any references or useful web sites -links will be highly appreciated.

More then you ever wanted to know at the archive, I expect.

Best

Keith


>Kishore


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[biofuel] Handy alternative

[Walt Patrick]

At 01:10 PM 10/7/03 -0400, Martin wrote:
 >It's just another way of creating hydrogen from water, while burning some
 >carbon in the process creating CO2
 >What's the big deal?

Doesn't have to be a big deal in order to serve as a handy alternative 
in 
some cases.

Our focus here is on converting biomass to methanol, and one of the 
things 
that's hard to use up is sawdust. It appears from the patents that it would 
be possible to operate that system using a fluidized bed of sawdust and 
generate CO and H2 which would be both storable and compressible, something 
which a mix of O2 and H2 ain't.

Given the new "room temp" co-catalyst methanol technology, having such 
a 
handy source for syngas adds a nice degree of flexibility. Especially in 
the set-up / break down/ try it again stage.


I'm further intrigued with this because:

1) The process is not pressure dependent.

It's easy enough to compress a liquid to 3,000 psi; it's a whole lot 
more 
difficult to compress a gas to that degree. By being able to build to the 
desired pressure within the reactor unit itself, you can get the 
compression needed to fill aluminum scuba tanks.

I've got enough room under the bed of my pickup to easily mount eight 
80 
CF  tanks, and that's a respectable amount of fuel which will get me down 
the road quite a ways before I run out and have to switch back to purchased 
fuel.

The key there is that by getting the first 50 miles "for free," and 
being 
able to switch back to propane when that runs out, I can cut down 
considerably on the total amount of fuel which needs to be purchased.

2) The patent indicates that the process uses 35 VDC and is 
interruptible, 
which makes it a good match for intermittent wind power sites. It's also a 
lot simpler design than what's needed for standard electrolysis, something 
which helps the small user considerably.

While I appreciate the skepticism, and agree that there's a lot of 
snake 
oil out there, I'm more than ready to give the benefit of the doubt to 
articles that list actual patent numbers.

with best wishes,

Walt
http://www.windward.org/





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[biofuel] Mark Schofield's BD plant was Re: USING SEPAR

[skillshare]

and? which acidbase process, for which feedstock, what variations, are 
yu using, where you found it (and where we can that is) and what have 
you found in the process that you vary depending on the feedstock?

mark

--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, mark schofield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Depends on the feed stock.
> 
> Mark
> 
>  --- skillshare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >
> which acid-base method are you using?
> > mark
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, mark schofield
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > Hi All
> > > 
> > > Yes, the samples are being sent to a GC lab
> > on
> > > Monday. The most basic test is to boil to
> > 60'C
> > > cool and then freeze thaw. If the product
> > does
> > > not cloud and is pH neutral, its good enought
> > for
> > > GC testing. I certainly haven't seen any
> > problems
> > > to date. I have bought a 205 1.8 Diesel to be
> > > fitted with a re-furb engine for long term
> > > emission tests.
> > > 
> > > I have bought a vacuum recovery unit capable
> > of
> > > removing 125 moles of Methanol a second,
> > which is
> > > of order 6300 CFM at 50mtorr.
> > > 
> > > It is a beast of a plant, I am very happy
> > with
> > > it. I had a site visit yesterday (Thursday 2
> > Oct)
> > > and everything looks to be getting there in
> > part.
> > > I can operate at single base, double base or
> > > acid-base depending upon the feed stock.
> > > 
> > > The plant will be on-line in 3 months. I may
> > open
> > > a web site detailing our progress.
> > > 
> > > Regards
> > > 
> > > Mark
> > > 
> > > =
> > > Mark Schofield
> > > M.Sc B.Eng DHE AMIMechE 
> > > t 07944 401662 
> > > e [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Autogas Conversions and LPG Pumps
> > > 
> > > 
> >
> 
__
> > __
> > > Want to chat instantly with your online
> > friends?  Get the FREE 
> > Yahoo!
> > > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.c
> > 
> > 
> >  
> 
> 
__
__
> Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE 
Yahoo!
> Messenger http://mail.messenger.yaho



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[biofuel] Trans-esterification with enzymatic process.

[dishark]

Hello Biofuel group members,

I understand that it is possible to make Biodiesel also by enzymatic conversion 
of oils. This process is said to avoid hazardous chemicals such as the strong 
Alkali's and Methanol. Could some body enlighten me on this possibility and 
whether it is being used in commercial scale any where? Any references or 
useful web sites -links will be highly appreciated.

Kishore


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Free energy and magic dust, etc

[Keith Addison]

>Keith,
>
>Link did not work for me, probably it was obsolete and
>deleted after Bush published his energy plan.
>
>Hakan

:-) Perhaps. But then why isn't the second one dead? - "How to become 
a Free Energy con man". Or am I missing something? LOL!

Sorry Hakan, I usually check links first, but these worked not long ago, IIRC.

This one does work:

http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html
Eric's history of Perpetual Motion and Free Energy Machines

The other two are okay.

>Plus:
>How to become a Free Energy con man
>http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm
>
>And:
>The Museum of Unworkable Devices
>http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm

Regards

Keith


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Re: [biofuel] under the give me a break heading.

[Ken Provost]

On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 08:47  AM, Bob Allen wrote:

>  I had no idea that silica was important in human
> physiology. and neither apparently do the authors of major
> biochemistry or physiology text books- those which are
> used to train physicians and medical researchers.

Actually, I see silicon was recently added to the list of
essential trace elements, along with boron, chromium,
manganese, nickel, tin, vanadium, molybdenum, arsenic,
lithium, aluminium, strontium, and cesium.  See

http://www.fao.org/docrep/U5900t/u5900t05.htm

I assume the silicon would typically be ingested as
silicates rather than silica, but the similarities are
enough (crystal structure etc) that I think we can
forgive the layman confusing the two. BTW, I was
also surprised!  :-)   -K


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Free energy and magic dust, etc

[Hakan Falk]

Found it,
http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html
a great sit and very funny.

Hakan

At 07:08 PM 10/7/2003, you wrote:

>Keith,
>
>Link did not work for me, probably it was obsolete and
>deleted after Bush published his energy plan.
>
>Hakan
>
>
>At 05:51 PM 10/7/2003, you wrote:
> >Merlin
> >
> > >Dear Keith,
> > >
> > >Your ridicule of alternative energy technologies, and fuel
> > >efficiency improvement technologies, is totally unscientific.
> >
> >No, I'm sceptical of totally unscientific free-energy and
> >fuel-economy scams. Such as these:
> >
> >Eric Krieg lists 78 free energy scams here, doesn't seem to get into
> >the zero-point stuff and instant cold fusion, so there's all that
> >besides:
> ><http://www.syc.org/e/dennis4.html>htt 
> p://www.syc.org/e/dennis4.html
> >Eric's history of Perpetual Motion and Free Energy Machines
> >
> >Plus:
> >How to become a Free Energy con man
> ><http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm>h 
> ttp://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm
> >
> >And:
> >The Museum of Unworkable Devices
> ><http://www.lhup.edu/~ds 
> imanek/museum/unwork.htm>http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm
> >
> >It's still alive and well, the free energy scam industry, as Mr
> >Scroot has warned.
> >
> > >Would you stake your life that there are no existing technologies
> > >that can improve the efficiency of any internal combustion
> > >engines, reduce emissions, and / or reduce wear and tear?
> >
> >Of course not.
> >
> > >Are
> > >you omniscient? Do you know everything that can be known
> > >about magnets and their potential applications in the energy
> > >field?
> >
> >Once yet again, go and check out the archives, and you'll find that
> >the list ban on magnets was indeed imposed by popular demand, and
> >you'll see why.
> >
> >You are being insulting, and rather foolish, your barbs are ill-aimed
> >and fail to strike home, and they might turn out to be boomerangs.
> >You were not insulted, you were asked direct and valid questions
> >about the information you posted and the claims you made, and you've
> >responded with insults, sneers, labellings and disparagement - but no
> >real answers to the questions. You're protesting much too loudly.
> >Now, attend to business please: stop trying to distract and
> >obfuscate, provide verifiable substantiation for the claims you've
> >made about the fuelsaver and your relationship with the company,
> >about platinum injection and your techniques for cheap extraction of
> >platinum that you say deserve careful scrutiny. In other words, prove
> >you're not a spammer. Best be quick about it.
> >
> >Keith Addison
> >List owner
> >
> >
> > >Arrogant contempt for new information is a major bar to human
> > >progress.
> > >
> > >Are you, or anyone else, able to prove a priori that your current
> > >knowledge is the sum total of all possible knowledge?
> > >
> > >Has science and technology reached its apotheosis, with no
> > >further progress possible?
> > >
> > >Fortunately, there are fewer and fewer scientific and
> > >technological obstructionists like you whose pronouncements
> > >about "the law of entropy" and invocation of other primitive "laws
> > >of nature" to disprove any assertion outside of your narrow
> > >worldviews.
> > >
> > >Increasingly, humanity is maturing into an objective, informed,
> > >humble, curious and open state of mind which acknowledges
> > >the incompleteness of human knowledge and the inevitable,
> > >unlimited forward  march of progress in all aspects of living,
> > >insofar as we are willing to be open to new discoveries and
> > >revise our imperfect understanding of the universe.
> > >
> > >Merlin
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>[]
>
>[]
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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>
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**
If you want to take a look on a project
that is very close to my heart, go to:
http://energysavingnow.com/
http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card
http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me
http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site
http://playa.nu/ Our small rental activities
**

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killing innocent people" -- Howard Zinn

"Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years.
We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may
wrinkle the ski

Re: [biofuel] Re: Energy

[Martin]

It's just another way of creating hydrogen from water, while burning some 
carbon in the process creating CO2
What's the big deal?
It's been done. It's not any more efficient than a bubbling electrolysis cell. 
Where's the controversy? Why aren't they marketing large cells and making 
millions of dollars? Is it a conspiracy? No. People know it isn't any better 
than the multitude of pseudo technologies coming out claiming "THIS is the 
answer". It's like the "watercar". It can be proven by a Jr High student not to 
work, yet it just won't go away. People are still talking about it now.
http://infoarchive.net/index.php?list=watercar

-- 
--
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http://infoarchive.net/
http://nnytech.net/



merlinsaintgermain wrote:

>All the above sounds like an investigation worthy of the Spanish 
>Inquisition. Prejudice in science and technology seems to work 
>exactly the same way as in religion, health, and all other aspects 
>of life.
>
>I'm not saying that aquafuels is not a scam, just that your 
>process of analysis betrays more about your prejudices than it 
>reveals about the alleged technology.
>
>Apparently many biodiesel fanatics are just as bigotted as 
>gasoline fanatics.
>
>There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which 
>is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a 
>man in everlasting ignorance – that principle is contempt prior to 
>investigation.
>– Herbert Spencer
>
>
>
>  
>




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Re: [biofuel] Re: Free energy and magic dust, etc

[Hakan Falk]

Keith,

Link did not work for me, probably it was obsolete and
deleted after Bush published his energy plan.

Hakan


At 05:51 PM 10/7/2003, you wrote:
>Merlin
>
> >Dear Keith,
> >
> >Your ridicule of alternative energy technologies, and fuel
> >efficiency improvement technologies, is totally unscientific.
>
>No, I'm sceptical of totally unscientific free-energy and
>fuel-economy scams. Such as these:
>
>Eric Krieg lists 78 free energy scams here, doesn't seem to get into
>the zero-point stuff and instant cold fusion, so there's all that
>besides:
>http://www.syc.org/e/dennis4.html
>Eric's history of Perpetual Motion and Free Energy Machines
>
>Plus:
>How to become a Free Energy con man
>http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm
>
>And:
>The Museum of Unworkable Devices
>http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm
>
>It's still alive and well, the free energy scam industry, as Mr
>Scroot has warned.
>
> >Would you stake your life that there are no existing technologies
> >that can improve the efficiency of any internal combustion
> >engines, reduce emissions, and / or reduce wear and tear?
>
>Of course not.
>
> >Are
> >you omniscient? Do you know everything that can be known
> >about magnets and their potential applications in the energy
> >field?
>
>Once yet again, go and check out the archives, and you'll find that
>the list ban on magnets was indeed imposed by popular demand, and
>you'll see why.
>
>You are being insulting, and rather foolish, your barbs are ill-aimed
>and fail to strike home, and they might turn out to be boomerangs.
>You were not insulted, you were asked direct and valid questions
>about the information you posted and the claims you made, and you've
>responded with insults, sneers, labellings and disparagement - but no
>real answers to the questions. You're protesting much too loudly.
>Now, attend to business please: stop trying to distract and
>obfuscate, provide verifiable substantiation for the claims you've
>made about the fuelsaver and your relationship with the company,
>about platinum injection and your techniques for cheap extraction of
>platinum that you say deserve careful scrutiny. In other words, prove
>you're not a spammer. Best be quick about it.
>
>Keith Addison
>List owner
>
>
> >Arrogant contempt for new information is a major bar to human
> >progress.
> >
> >Are you, or anyone else, able to prove a priori that your current
> >knowledge is the sum total of all possible knowledge?
> >
> >Has science and technology reached its apotheosis, with no
> >further progress possible?
> >
> >Fortunately, there are fewer and fewer scientific and
> >technological obstructionists like you whose pronouncements
> >about "the law of entropy" and invocation of other primitive "laws
> >of nature" to disprove any assertion outside of your narrow
> >worldviews.
> >
> >Increasingly, humanity is maturing into an objective, informed,
> >humble, curious and open state of mind which acknowledges
> >the incompleteness of human knowledge and the inevitable,
> >unlimited forward  march of progress in all aspects of living,
> >insofar as we are willing to be open to new discoveries and
> >revise our imperfect understanding of the universe.
> >
> >Merlin




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[biofuel] under the give me a break heading.

[Bob Allen]

you know , I am an organic chemist and occasionally am pressed into 
service to teach biochemistry.  I had no idea that silica was important 
in human physiology.  and neither apparently do the authors of major 
biochemistry or physiology text books- those which are used to train 
physicians and medical researchers. If in fact it is important, one 
would think that it would be common knowledge.  Gosh., do you think that 
traces of silica would strengthen the pistons in my aging diesel-  it 
makes about as much sense.

I for one would like references on the specific physiological role of 
silica before spending a dime on your herbs.

>>"Horsetail Herb " Equisetum arvense ", The primary
>>uses of horsetail revolve
>>around its wealth of mineral content and,
>>especially, its silica content.
>>Silica is very important to the body, our hair,
>>bones and nails. Though
>>richly available in the Earth crust this inorganic
>>form is not well used by
>>the body. The best sources of usable silica are
>>plants, and, of the plants,
>>horsetail is by far the best."
>>

-- 
--
Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistryhttp://ozarker.org/bob
---
"Some scientists claim that Hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is
the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there
is more stupidity than Hydrogen, and that is the basic building block
of the universe." - Frank Zappa

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Re: [biofuel] heaters powered by PV

[Martin]

You could use the PV panel to charge a battery then run the heaters for 
a while before you go. You don't need to run the heater continuously 
(correct me if I'm wrong please)

James H wrote:

>Maud Essen wrote:
>
> >Can block, tank, or fuel line heaters be made to work off a solar panel?
> >
> >Maud
> >St. Louis, MO
> >
>
>I would guess most block, tank, or fuel heaters draw between 15 and 100 
>amps.  A 75 watt Photovoltaic module would put out 4 amps in ideal 
>conditions. Therefore you would need  minimum 4 panels at $350 each to run 
>a 15amp heater.  More likely you would need 10 - 20 modules. My 6 panels 
>give me between 1 and 24 amps during sunlight hours.
>
>
>
>James
>
>
>  
>


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--
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http://nnytech.net/



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Energy

[Hakan Falk]

Herbert.

Interesting remark "Spanish Inquisition", it was all about living simple, 
without waste and faithfully. Maybe it will be a similar period soon, when 
the people who are wasting energy and resources will be pursued. Watch it 
dear SUV owner, Guantanamo bay is next. Methods of torture will today be 
replaced with chemicals and electronic devices as lie detectors, the latter 
is already popular in US. Maybe US can expand the facilities on Cuba, a 
nice little lawless facility in the spirit of "Spanish Inquisition" and 
comfortably exempted from any human rights. I think that the US 
administration would be admired by Isabel and Ferdinand.

What you are talking about is the very popular experiment in the basic 
chemistry classes. In Swedish we call it "knallgas", (knall = bang) because 
of the sound when it explodes. I was never really good in chemistry, but 
nothing new with hydrogen.

Hakan

At 02:40 PM 10/7/2003, you wrote:
>All the above sounds like an investigation worthy of the Spanish
>Inquisition. Prejudice in science and technology seems to work
>exactly the same way as in religion, health, and all other aspects
>of life.
>
>I'm not saying that aquafuels is not a scam, just that your
>process of analysis betrays more about your prejudices than it
>reveals about the alleged technology.
>
>Apparently many biodiesel fanatics are just as bigotted as
>gasoline fanatics.
>
>There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which
>is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a
>man in everlasting ignorance ö that principle is contempt prior to
>investigation.
>ö Herbert Spencer



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[biofuel] PLEASE READ THIS - was Re: Digest Number 1782

[Keith Addison]

If you have your subscription set to "daily digest" mode (not the 
best way to handle email, incidentally) and you respond to a message 
in the digest, the auto-reply doesn't fill in the subject line for 
you with the subject of the message you're responding to but with the 
digest title, such as "Re: Digest Number 1782". PLEASE don't do this 
- it messes up the threads, makes following the posts much more 
difficult, and clutters up archives searches for evermore. CHANGE THE 
TITLE! This subject should be "Re: cold weather", not "Re: Digest 
Number 1782", but who's to know?

Thankyou.

Keith Addison
List owner

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[biofuel] Re: Free energy and magic dust, etc

[Keith Addison]

Merlin

>Dear Keith,
>
>Your ridicule of alternative energy technologies, and fuel
>efficiency improvement technologies, is totally unscientific.

No, I'm sceptical of totally unscientific free-energy and 
fuel-economy scams. Such as these:

Eric Krieg lists 78 free energy scams here, doesn't seem to get into 
the zero-point stuff and instant cold fusion, so there's all that 
besides:
http://www.syc.org/e/dennis4.html
Eric's history of Perpetual Motion and Free Energy Machines

Plus:
How to become a Free Energy con man
http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm

And:
The Museum of Unworkable Devices
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm

It's still alive and well, the free energy scam industry, as Mr 
Scroot has warned.

>Would you stake your life that there are no existing technologies
>that can improve the efficiency of any internal combustion
>engines, reduce emissions, and / or reduce wear and tear?

Of course not.

>Are
>you omniscient? Do you know everything that can be known
>about magnets and their potential applications in the energy
>field?

Once yet again, go and check out the archives, and you'll find that 
the list ban on magnets was indeed imposed by popular demand, and 
you'll see why.

You are being insulting, and rather foolish, your barbs are ill-aimed 
and fail to strike home, and they might turn out to be boomerangs. 
You were not insulted, you were asked direct and valid questions 
about the information you posted and the claims you made, and you've 
responded with insults, sneers, labellings and disparagement - but no 
real answers to the questions. You're protesting much too loudly. 
Now, attend to business please: stop trying to distract and 
obfuscate, provide verifiable substantiation for the claims you've 
made about the fuelsaver and your relationship with the company, 
about platinum injection and your techniques for cheap extraction of 
platinum that you say deserve careful scrutiny. In other words, prove 
you're not a spammer. Best be quick about it.

Keith Addison
List owner
 

>Arrogant contempt for new information is a major bar to human
>progress.
>
>Are you, or anyone else, able to prove a priori that your current
>knowledge is the sum total of all possible knowledge?
>
>Has science and technology reached its apotheosis, with no
>further progress possible?
>
>Fortunately, there are fewer and fewer scientific and
>technological obstructionists like you whose pronouncements
>about "the law of entropy" and invocation of other primitive "laws
>of nature" to disprove any assertion outside of your narrow
>worldviews.
>
>Increasingly, humanity is maturing into an objective, informed,
>humble, curious and open state of mind which acknowledges
>the incompleteness of human knowledge and the inevitable,
>unlimited forward  march of progress in all aspects of living,
>insofar as we are willing to be open to new discoveries and
>revise our imperfect understanding of the universe.
>
>Merlin


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[biofuel] Solexol Bio-diesel FFA Separation

[mark schofield]

Dear All 

Has anyone experience of the Solexol FFA removal
technique using liquid propane? Apparently, LPG
ha the ability to up-take triglycerides and leave
behind FFA. A very useful technique.

Regards

=
Mark Schofield
M.Sc B.Eng DHE AMIMechE 
t 07944 401662 
e [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Autogas Conversions and LPG Pumps


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[biofuel] Re: Emissions abatement systems benefit the environment

[Keith Addison]

You're getting very confused Merlin.

>Merlin: I suspect that developing superior, cleaner, safer and
>more efficient catalytic converters and affixing them to all sources
>of air emissions is the correct path, simultaneous with
>developing biodiesel and more fuel efficient engines of all kinds.
>The experts in PGM metallurgy feel that with a little research they
>can produce an extremely efficient, zero emissions (even no
>CO2) gas, coal, or diesel power plant. That would be very good
>for the environment, our pocketbooks, and world security.
>
>Keith: Sorry to say so, but it's pie-in-the-sky. At best, it'll be a
>decade  or two before it makes much difference, if any. While
>we're all  interested in new developments, future possibilities
>and what-if's,  the focus has to be on ready-to-use technology,
>and some of us here  are kind of rigorous about confusing the
>one with the other.
>
>Comment: What is pie in the sky? Air pollution abatement is
>already a major world industry, and platinum catalysis is one of
>the primary methods of scrubbing CO HCs NOx and other
>emissions from factories and energy plants. There are millions
>and millions of smokestacks spewing out greenhouse gases
>and a wide variety of pollutants, and there are many existing,
>proven, readily available technologies to clean up these
>emissions. Are you saying that it is impractical to suggest that
>these proven technologies can be used to reduce emissions
>from more pollution sources? Do you recommend that catalytic
>converters of all kinds be banned, and stripped off of cars and
>factories?

Your strange and baseless assumptions aside, as well as the words 
you're trying to put into my mouth, you've quoted yourself as saying 
"The experts in PGM metallurgy feel that with a little research they 
can produce an extremely efficient, zero emissions (even no CO2) gas, 
coal, or diesel power plant." Which puts it firmly in the bracket of 
new developments, future possibilities and what-if's. Pie in the sky.

>The main barrier that I know of to cleaning up the air in the world,
>up until now, has been the lack of will. And also a shortage of
>PGMs. My associates have solved the problem of the shortage of
>PGMs, and their high cost.

So you keep saying, and you suggest we subject it to a careful 
scrutiny, and I keep asking how we are to do that when all we have is 
your say-so. Until we have something more substantive than that, it's 
just more pie in the sky.

>Now it seems that there is another
>obstacle to the use of pollution abatement technology. The
>campaign against platinum catalysis pollution abatement
>technology. Can you tell me more about this campaign? And
>what do the anti-platinum activists propose as an alternative?

Well, you just dreamed it up all by yourself, why don't you tell us?

>You imply that no research has been done about the pollution
>erosion problem in catalytic converters.

No, I didn't imply that. I provided two published news articles, 
which you apparently didn't read, or at least failed to comprehend, 
which leaves you labouring under something of a disadvantage.

>I find this highly
>improbable. The catalytic converter industry is a multi-billion
>dollar industry, and vast amounts of research is going on.
>Reduction of erosion is certain to have been a major focus of
>research, as it bears on the longevity and efficiency of catalytic
>converters. Technical innovations are happening continuously in
>catalytic converter design, both of the substrates and the
>catalysts. Hundreds of millions of dollars are being spent each
>year on research into the properties of platinum catalysts. I'm not
>exagerating either. Much of this research is not published
>publicly, because it is privately funded in a highly competitive
>industry.

Ah, so THAT'S why we just have to take your word for it all. Sorry, 
won't wash. In essence that's not too different from what Dennis Lee 
says.

You wish to presume that the platinum pollution problem is of course 
being dealt with or has been dealt with and/or that it's not a 
problem anyway, an assumption apparently based on the number of 
dollars the industry is worth. "Trust Us We're Experts". The 
chemicals industry's even bigger, so is the fossil-fuels industry, so 
is the nuclear power industry.

>Merlin


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[biofuel] Re: Energy

[Keith Addison]

merlinsaintgermain wrote:

>All the above sounds like an investigation worthy of the Spanish
>Inquisition. Prejudice in science and technology seems to work
>exactly the same way as in religion, health, and all other aspects
>of life.

A healthy scepticism that asks for substantiation is not "prejudice", 
you have failed to produce any "science and technology", only 
opinion, your ever-louder protests are more and more confirming the 
need for scepticism, and it seems you're getting a little desperate, 
else surely you'd have realised that the "investigation" you're 
attacking is a chronological list of posts from many different list 
members, virtually the whole thread the last time the subject of 
aquafuels came up, taken from the archives.

>I'm not saying that aquafuels is not a scam, just that your
>process of analysis

What analysis? I didn't provide any analysis, only archive material.

>betrays more about your prejudices than it
>reveals about the alleged technology.

I take it you're addressing this to me? Feeling persecuted because 
the list isn't lapping up your every word, so you've taken to 
labelling - "cynical and suspicious" the last time, now "prejudiced", 
"fanatics", "bigotted", "ignorant". Is this the best you can do? 
You're not going to flog many fuelsavers that way.

>Apparently many biodiesel fanatics are just as bigotted as
>gasoline fanatics.
>
>There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which
>is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a
>man in everlasting ignorance ö that principle is contempt prior to
>investigation.
>ö Herbert Spencer

You have't provided any information, just unsubstantiated opinion.

Keith


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[biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with platinum injection?

[Keith Addison]

Hello Merlin

>Dear Keith,
>
>Thanks for your reply. There are several things about your letter
>that I don't fully understand.

So it would appear. I'll deal with this first:

>You seem to be accusing me of having a financial interest in PI.

No, I asked if you did have, and you evaded the question, which made 
it more likely that you did have, so I asked again.

>You can accuse me of lying,

I didn't do that.

>but it only betrays your own cynical
>and suspicious nature.

Not at all, I don't have such a nature, and there's a LOT of material 
in the archives of this group, and elsewhere, that proves it. What I 
do have is a healthy scepticism, but it doesn't go with cynicism and 
suspicion, it goes with optimism in fact. It'd be very difficult to 
explain our project otherwise. Which is here, by the way:
http://journeytoforever.org/

I think you might have done yourself a favour or two by browsing the 
list's archives a bit before you leapt in to tell us all what's good 
and what's not.

On the other hand, your own nature seems to be rather paranoid, no? 
And secretive.

>I only learned about fuelsaver a few days
>ago.

Oh? Yet you've learnt so much about it, including its history, how 
it's developed, how many are in use (give or take half a million or 
so).

>As I said, I am associated with a group who is able to
>produce large amounts of platinum and other PGMs for a lower
>price than other producers. That is why I am exploring the
>potential properties and markets for these metals.

Yes, so you said, and you also said this about it:

>>These things all deserve careful scrutiny, in my opinion.

To which I responded:

>So how do we get to submit your claim that you've solved the supply 
>problem to a careful scrutiny?

And again you haven't answered the question.

>With between 500,000 and 1 million fuel savers in operation
>worldwide, I think that it should be possible to determine
>whether they perform as represented or not.

Can you provide some substantiation for that figure? Please try to 
hoist it aboard that if you're going to make the kind of definitive 
statements you've been making here about issues you have to know by 
now are controversial, mere opinionations won't do, we're more 
rigorous than that here.

>And it shouldn't
>need to take 35 years. The fuelsavers were developed in the
>1970's or 1980's,

Yes, that's when Robert says he got bitten by them.

>and have been improved over the years by
>adding more varieties of PGM's to increase octane rating and
>reduce emissions. Many studies have been done, and many
>thousands of testimonials accrued.

But you don't cite any studies - what studies? Real ones, scientific 
studies, published in peer-reviewed journals? Please provide 
citations. We're not impressed by testimonials, all the energy and 
fuel-saving scams have long been fraught with ample testimonials.

>If it can be shown that the downside of catalytic converters is
>negligible or slight,

That has not been shown.

>and the upside enormous, then the decision
>should be to use them.

No, the decision should be - should long since have been - to 
determine exactly what the downside is and what it entails before 
rushing into production. It's called the "Precautionary Principle", 
maybe you've heard of it. An archive search will help if you haven't.

>And that is what society has done. You
>seem to be arguing for the banning of catalytic converters.

I'm afraid you're being ridiculous, I've done no such thing, nor ever 
would, quite the opposite, and I'd argue it's been to some effect, 
and I could prove it.

>This
>is the first that I have heard of such a proposal. Can you lay out
>or provide a link to a cost-benefit analysis? What is your
>alternative proposal, which is practical, and more beneficial for
>the environment?

What I proposed, and I've called attention to it before, was clear 
enough in my previous message: I called for "somewhat better answers 
to platinum waste and pollution than those currently available", I 
cited the two references I gave before (still not sure that you've 
read them):

>From the news articles I reffed:
>
> >"We know palladium gets off the catalytic particle and is 
>transferred into the biological system, but we don't know how," says 
>environmental chemist Greg Morrison of Chalmers University of 
>Technology in Gothenburg, Sweden.
>
> >Schneegurt hopes the study will cause manufacturers to consider 
>making changes to the converters. "Catalytic converters do far more 
>good than harm, but we don't want to replace one problem with 
>another," he said.

... and asked why this wasn't investigated 25 years ago.

Now how does that amount to calling for a ban on catalytic converters?

>You seem to speak of biodiesel and platinum injection as
>either/or.

No. Biodiesel is real, I'd like to see some substantive indication 
that platinum injection isn't just magic dust.

>But I am interested in exploring the combining of the
>two.

You're interesting in s

[biofuel] Re: Energy

[merlinsaintgermain]

All the above sounds like an investigation worthy of the Spanish 
Inquisition. Prejudice in science and technology seems to work 
exactly the same way as in religion, health, and all other aspects 
of life.

I'm not saying that aquafuels is not a scam, just that your 
process of analysis betrays more about your prejudices than it 
reveals about the alleged technology.

Apparently many biodiesel fanatics are just as bigotted as 
gasoline fanatics.

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which 
is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a 
man in everlasting ignorance ö that principle is contempt prior to 
investigation.
ö Herbert Spencer




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[biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with platinum injection?

[merlinsaintgermain]

Dear Keith,

Thanks for your reply. There are several things about your letter 
that I don't fully understand.

With between 500,000 and 1 million fuel savers in operation 
worldwide, I think that it should be possible to determine 
whether they perform as represented or not. And it shouldn't 
need to take 35 years. The fuelsavers were developed in the 
1970's or 1980's, and have been improved over the years by 
adding more varieties of PGM's to increase octane rating and 
reduce emissions. Many studies have been done, and many 
thousands of testimonials accrued.

If it can be shown that the downside of catalytic converters is 
negligible or slight, and the upside enormous, then the decision 
should be to use them. And that is what society has done. You 
seem to be arguing for the banning of catalytic converters. This 
is the first that I have heard of such a proposal. Can you lay out 
or provide a link to a cost-benefit analysis? What is your 
alternative proposal, which is practical, and more beneficial for 
the environment?

You seem to speak of biodiesel and platinum injection as 
either/or. But I am interested in exploring the combining of the 
two. You seem to be interested in practical environmental 
solutions. You seem to be a cheerleader for biodiesel. However, 
biodiesel may not be burned efficiently in standard diesel 
engines, and we know it pollutes. If biodiesel fuel could be 
burned more efficiently, with greatly reduced pollution, then why 
would you resist improvement to biodiesel? Are you a sincere 
environmentalist? Are you concerned about tailpipe emissions? 
What about global climate change and air pollution? How do you 
know that platinum isn't beneficial to human health? What 
compounds exactly are produced by using PI on a biodiesel 
engine? What are their health and environmental impacts? What 
is the variability in PGM erosion in different brands and types of 
catalytic converters? What is the PGM output, if any, in platinum 
injection (PI) engines? Do engines equipped with PI even need 
catalytic converters? Perhaps PI is a solution to catalytic 
converter erosion pollution problems, if in fact there are any 
pollution problems. Do you consider gold a pollutant also? 
Some people are allergic to gold. In fact, many people are 
allergic to carrots. So are carrots pollutants also?

You seem to be accusing me of having a financial interest in PI. 
You can accuse me of lying, but it only betrays your own cynical 
and suspicious nature. I only learned about fuelsaver a few days 
ago. As I said, I am associated with a group who is able to 
produce large amounts of platinum and other PGMs for a lower 
price than other producers. That is why I am exploring the 
potential properties and markets for these metals.

Merlin





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[biofuel] Re: Free energy and magic dust, etc

[merlinsaintgermain]

Dear Keith,

Your ridicule of alternative energy technologies, and fuel 
efficiency improvement technologies, is totally unscientific.

Would you stake your life that there are no existing technologies 
that can improve the efficiency of any internal combustion 
engines, reduce emissions, and / or reduce wear and tear? Are 
you omniscient? Do you know everything that can be known 
about magnets and their potential applications in the energy 
field?

Arrogant contempt for new information is a major bar to human 
progress.

Are you, or anyone else, able to prove a priori that your current 
knowledge is the sum total of all possible knowledge?

Has science and technology reached its apotheosis, with no 
further progress possible?

Fortunately, there are fewer and fewer scientific and 
technological obstructionists like you whose pronouncements 
about "the law of entropy" and invocation of other primitive "laws 
of nature" to disprove any assertion outside of your narrow 
worldviews. 

Increasingly, humanity is maturing into an objective, informed, 
humble, curious and open state of mind which acknowledges 
the incompleteness of human knowledge and the inevitable, 
unlimited forward  march of progress in all aspects of living, 
insofar as we are willing to be open to new discoveries and 
revise our imperfect understanding of the universe.

Merlin



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[biofuel] Emissions abatement systems benefit the environment

[merlinsaintgermain]

Merlin: I suspect that developing superior, cleaner, safer and 
more efficient catalytic converters and affixing them to all sources 
of air emissions is the correct path, simultaneous with 
developing biodiesel and more fuel efficient engines of all kinds. 
The experts in PGM metallurgy feel that with a little research they 
can produce an extremely efficient, zero emissions (even no 
CO2) gas, coal, or diesel power plant. That would be very good 
for the environment, our pocketbooks, and world security.

Keith: Sorry to say so, but it's pie-in-the-sky. At best, it'll be a 
decade  or two before it makes much difference, if any. While 
we're all  interested in new developments, future possibilities 
and what-if's,  the focus has to be on ready-to-use technology, 
and some of us here  are kind of rigorous about confusing the 
one with the other.

Comment: What is pie in the sky? Air pollution abatement is 
already a major world industry, and platinum catalysis is one of 
the primary methods of scrubbing CO HCs NOx and other 
emissions from factories and energy plants. There are millions 
and millions of smokestacks spewing out greenhouse gases 
and a wide variety of pollutants, and there are many existing, 
proven, readily available technologies to clean up these 
emissions. Are you saying that it is impractical to suggest that 
these proven technologies can be used to reduce emissions 
from more pollution sources? Do you recommend that catalytic 
converters of all kinds be banned, and stripped off of cars and 
factories? 

The main barrier that I know of to cleaning up the air in the world, 
up until now, has been the lack of will. And also a shortage of 
PGMs. My associates have solved the problem of the shortage of 
PGMs, and their high cost.  Now it seems that there is another 
obstacle to the use of pollution abatement technology. The 
campaign against platinum catalysis pollution abatement 
technology. Can you tell me more about this campaign? And 
what do the anti-platinum activists propose as an alternative?

You imply that no research has been done about the pollution 
erosion problem in catalytic converters. I find this highly 
improbable. The catalytic converter industry is a multi-billion 
dollar industry, and vast amounts of research is going on. 
Reduction of erosion is certain to have been a major focus of 
research, as it bears on the longevity and efficiency of catalytic 
converters. Technical innovations are happening continuously in 
catalytic converter design, both of the substrates and the 
catalysts. Hundreds of millions of dollars are being spent each 
year on research into the properties of platinum catalysts. I'm not 
exagerating either. Much of this research is not published 
publicly, because it is privately funded in a highly competitive 
industry.

Merlin




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[biofuel] Re: WVO filtration

[maimino1984]

OK, in a sudden surge of unexplained brain activity, I figured that 
what I needed to do was rip the paper out of the filter, wrap the 
outside of the filter with ordinary window screen, and seal it with 
silicone. All done with loose bits I had laying about. Result: one 
cheap, washable, reusable WVO pre-filter. After processing, I'll use 
the finer diesel oil filter to get the small stuff out.

--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "maimino1984" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I haven't had much luck with a similiar setup - I tried using an 
Omni 
> Wholehouse water filter with a 20 mic pleated paper filter and 
> unheated WVO would not move through it. I'm assuming that the oil 
> must be heated first. However, not sure if the filter housing can 
> take any signifiacnt temperatures.
> 
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > Hi ,I have used a 10"clear water filter housing set with  20 & 5 
> micron 
> > pleated filters inside ,you will need a small 12 or 24 volt pump 
to 
> move it 
> > around . just a suggestion , i  have found these far less 
expensive 
> than 
> > using a racor filter .They last longer too .
> > If you have trouble finding a cheap set of filters & pump , i can 
> help you 
> > there too .
> > Best Regards
> > Grant Simpson
> > 
> > 
> > >From: Alan Petrillo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [biofuel] WVO filtration
> > >Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 12:41:27 -0400
> > >
> > >Does anyone have any suggestions for a small portable filter set 
> for
> > >filtering WVO into my fuel tank?
> > >
> > >
> > >TIA,
> > >AP
> > >
> > 
> > _
> > Gaming galore at  http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming !



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with platinuminjection?

[Alex]

I think that this concept is not a hoax.
Platinum is a most remarkable element, which serves as a catalyst to many
chemical reactions.
How they did it?
Possibly by heating platinum wire to a very high temperature and putting it
on the
way of intake air.
Alex
- Original Message -
From: merlinsaintgermain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 1:23 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with
platinuminjection?


> Dear robert,
>
> Why do you advise people to "hold onto their wallets"? What do
> you know about platinum fuel injection? If one can economically
> reduce fuel consumption by up to 30%, greatly reduce harmful
> emissions, and dramatically reduce engine wear and
> maintenance, then isn't that good for the wallet?
>
> Merlin
>
> merlinsaintgermain wrote:
> >
> > >  Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with platinum
> > > injection?
> > >
> > > Extracts from National Fuelsaver company site:
> > >
> > > With a simple connection to a vacuum line, the Gasaver adds
> > > microscopic quantities of platinum to the air-fuel mixture
> entering  the engine.
> >
>  Hold onto your wallets, everyone!
>
>  robert luis rabello
> > "The Edge of Justice"
> > Adventure for Your Mind
> > http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782
>
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



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Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1782

[Dan Maker]

Quinn said:
> 
> I'm thinking about the tank used as a secondary tank for oil in straight WVO
> set-ups.  I'm not an engineer or anything, but is there any reason that the
> 'tank' couldn't be more of a large flat enclosed tray-shaped thing?  It
> would seem that this would greatly facilitate the speed at which the oil
> would heat and/ or require less heat to do it.

That would depend.  Here in Utah, in the summer a large flat black tank,
exposed to the sun would heat the contents more quickly than a tank with
a lower surface area to volume ratio, but then in the winter, the second
tank (with less surface area to volume) would lose heat more slowly than
the first tank.  How are you heating the tank?

Dan
-- 
Jack of all trades, master of none.
Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker
http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard


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RE: [biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with platinuminjection?

[Hakan Falk]

What beats me, is why we discuss this on a list for biofuels. Only the fact 
that most of the people on the list are interested in using bifuels or are 
already using them, make this questionable gimmick obsolete. The one who 
tried to get interest for this, cannot be familiar with or interested in 
biofuels and especially biodiesel. Apart from the well founded concerns 
about platinum, this is like selling ice to Eskimos. -:))

Hakan


At 06:15 PM 10/7/2003, you wrote:
>Getting cancer isn't good for the wallet and I would rather inhale 0.1ppm
>cyanide than platinum. Metals that exhibit catalytic action are hell in
>biological systems. For example, a simple method of inducing a tumor in a
>rat is to place a bit of nickel wire under his skin. I suppose platinum
>would do as well or better but nickel is cheaper.
>
>Kirk
>
>-Original Message-
>From: merlinsaintgermain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 10:24 AM
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with
>platinuminjection?
>
>
>Dear robert,
>
>Why do you advise people to "hold onto their wallets"? What do
>you know about platinum fuel injection? If one can economically
>reduce fuel consumption by up to 30%, greatly reduce harmful
>emissions, and dramatically reduce engine wear and
>maintenance, then isn't that good for the wallet?
>
>Merlin
>
>merlinsaintgermain wrote:
> >
> > >  Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with platinum
> > > injection?
> > >
> > > Extracts from National Fuelsaver company site:
> > >
> > > With a simple connection to a vacuum line, the Gasaver adds
> > > microscopic quantities of platinum to the air-fuel mixture
>entering  the engine.
> >
>  Hold onto your wallets, everyone!
>
>robert luis rabello
> > "The Edge of Justice"
> > Adventure for Your Mind
> > 
> http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782



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RE: [biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with platinuminjection?

[Kirk]

Getting cancer isn't good for the wallet and I would rather inhale 0.1ppm
cyanide than platinum. Metals that exhibit catalytic action are hell in
biological systems. For example, a simple method of inducing a tumor in a
rat is to place a bit of nickel wire under his skin. I suppose platinum
would do as well or better but nickel is cheaper.

Kirk

-Original Message-
From: merlinsaintgermain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 10:24 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with
platinuminjection?


Dear robert,

Why do you advise people to "hold onto their wallets"? What do
you know about platinum fuel injection? If one can economically
reduce fuel consumption by up to 30%, greatly reduce harmful
emissions, and dramatically reduce engine wear and
maintenance, then isn't that good for the wallet?

Merlin

merlinsaintgermain wrote:
>
> >  Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with platinum
> > injection?
> >
> > Extracts from National Fuelsaver company site:
> >
> > With a simple connection to a vacuum line, the Gasaver adds
> > microscopic quantities of platinum to the air-fuel mixture
entering  the engine.
>
 Hold onto your wallets, everyone!

 robert luis rabello
> "The Edge of Justice"
> Adventure for Your Mind
> http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782





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[biofuel] projected US Energy demand and pricing for this winter

[murdoch]

http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/031007/0846000354_2.html

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Re: [biofuel] Mark Schofield's BD plant was Re: USING SEPAR

[mark schofield]

Hi

Depends on the feed stock.

Mark

 --- skillshare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >
which acid-base method are you using?
> mark
> 
> 
> 
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, mark schofield
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > Hi All
> > 
> > Yes, the samples are being sent to a GC lab
> on
> > Monday. The most basic test is to boil to
> 60'C
> > cool and then freeze thaw. If the product
> does
> > not cloud and is pH neutral, its good enought
> for
> > GC testing. I certainly haven't seen any
> problems
> > to date. I have bought a 205 1.8 Diesel to be
> > fitted with a re-furb engine for long term
> > emission tests.
> > 
> > I have bought a vacuum recovery unit capable
> of
> > removing 125 moles of Methanol a second,
> which is
> > of order 6300 CFM at 50mtorr.
> > 
> > It is a beast of a plant, I am very happy
> with
> > it. I had a site visit yesterday (Thursday 2
> Oct)
> > and everything looks to be getting there in
> part.
> > I can operate at single base, double base or
> > acid-base depending upon the feed stock.
> > 
> > The plant will be on-line in 3 months. I may
> open
> > a web site detailing our progress.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > Mark
> > 
> > =
> > Mark Schofield
> > M.Sc B.Eng DHE AMIMechE 
> > t 07944 401662 
> > e [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Autogas Conversions and LPG Pumps
> > 
> > 
>
__
> __
> > Want to chat instantly with your online
> friends?  Get the FREE 
> Yahoo!
> > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.c
> 
> 
>  


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Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1782

[Quinn]

I'm thinking about the tank used as a secondary tank for oil in straight WVO
set-ups.  I'm not an engineer or anything, but is there any reason that the
'tank' couldn't be more of a large flat enclosed tray-shaped thing?  It
would seem that this would greatly facilitate the speed at which the oil
would heat and/ or require less heat to do it.

Anyone?

Quinn

  - Original Message - 
  From: James H


  Maud Essen wrote:

  >Can block, tank, or fuel line heaters be made to work off a solar panel?
  >
  >Maud
  >St. Louis, MO
  >

  I would guess most block, tank, or fuel heaters draw between 15 and 100
  amps.  A 75 watt Photovoltaic module would put out 4 amps in ideal
  conditions. Therefore you would need  minimum 4 panels at $350 each to run
  a 15amp heater.  More likely you would need 10 - 20 modules. My 6 panels
  give me between 1 and 24 amps during sunlight hours.



  James


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with platinum injection?

[Keith Addison]

Hello Merlin

>Dear Keith Addison,
>
>I am interested in solutions to environmental and economic
>problems associated with energy and transportation. The
>prospect of reducing fuel consumption, emissions, and
>maintenance and wear seems like a major step in that direction.
>
>Biodiesel seems very promising,

It's not a promise, it's a reality, thoroughly proven and established 
and in use now in a motor near you, and it does all those things 
above.

>but if the efficiency of
>combustion is low due to the incomplete radicalisation of the
>oxygen, then increasing the efficiency of combustion and
>reducing the emissions would make biodiesel even more
>beneficial.
>
>So I am interested to learn if anyone has tried a PVI fuelsaver on
>a diesel, gas, or biodiesel vehicle, and what the results were.

Yes, interesting, and maybe when/if the PVI fuelsaver has a similarly 
established track record to that of biodiesel AND incorporates 
somewhat better answers to platinum waste and pollution than those 
currently available, it'd be even more interesting.

>You raise some environmental issues, that deserve careful
>scrutiny, of course. But in themselves I don't think the concerns
>you've raised veto the use of catalytic converters on cars and
>other devices. Perhaps a means could be found, or already
>exists, for reducing or eliminating the erosion of the PGMs.

 From the news articles I reffed:

>"We know palladium gets off the catalytic particle and is 
>transferred into the biological system, but we don't know how," says 
>environmental chemist Greg Morrison of Chalmers University of 
>Technology in Gothenburg, Sweden.

>Schneegurt hopes the study will cause manufacturers to consider 
>making changes to the converters. "Catalytic converters do far more 
>good than harm, but we don't want to replace one problem with 
>another," he said.

Now why wasn't this investigated 25 years ago?

>Or, perhaps the negative impact on human health and the living
>environment of the the PGM pollution is far less destructive than
>the downside of the CO, HC's, NOS's, etc. that would otherwise
>spew out of hundreds of millions of fossil fuel and biodiesel
>burning engines if they didn't have Catalytic Converters (Cats).

That's a bit like saying Stalin was an okay guy because Hitler was 
even worse. Why should we accept such a "heads you lose, tails you 
lose" choice of options?

>Your PGM supply issues are valid, and relate to the commercial
>viability of equipping all engines and factories with catalytic
>emissions reducers, and to the commercial viability of fuel cells.

Yes. And to the resources available to future generations, if we just 
happen to use it all up because it's "there" and there's a profit in 
it, as with quite a few other non-renewable resources. They often 
seem to have this in common, that we waste them, and in doing so 
create environmental problems that we don't have good solutions for 
and should have seen coming in the first place.

>I am involved with a group of scientists and business people
>who have solved this problem, however, inasmuch as we have
>found a way of cheaply and cleanly extracting vast amounts of
>PGM's from heretofore unmineable ore.
>
>These things all deserve careful scrutiny, in my opinion.

So how do we get to submit your claim that you've solved the supply 
problem to a careful scrutiny?

>I suspect that developing superior, cleaner, safer and more
>efficient catalytic converters and affixing them to all sources of air
>emissions is the correct path, simultaneous with developing
>biodiesel and more fuel efficient engines of all kinds. The
>experts in PGM metallurgy feel that with a little research they can
>produce an extremely efficient, zero emissions (even no CO2)
>gas, coal, or diesel power plant. That would be very good for the
>environment, our pocketbooks, and world security.

Sorry to say so, but it's pie-in-the-sky. At best, it'll be a decade 
or two before it makes much difference, if any. While we're all 
interested in new developments, future possibilities and what-if's, 
the focus has to be on ready-to-use technology, and some of us here 
are kind of rigorous about confusing the one with the other.

>I also believe that free energy deserves serious and objective
>analysis.

Uh-huh.

>Bikes, rollerblades, scooters, buses, trams, etc. are also part of
>the solution.

... and often discussed here.

Anyway, you seem to have evaded the question:

>Ho-hum, yet another magic bullet. What's your angle, 
>"merlinsaintgermain"? You just joined and straight away post this 
>message. Spamming?
>
>>Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with platinum
>>injection?
>>
>>Extracts from National Fuelsaver company site:

So I'll make it direct: what is your interest in the National 
Fuelsaver company? That's interest as in "to be declared" rather than 
interest as in "just curious".

Keith

>Merlin


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[biofuel] Free energy and magic dust, etc

[Keith Addison]

We received the following report from the deputy manager of the 
Crystal Ball New Energy Technology Assessment and Marching Band Dept 
at DREADCOR, the poor feller:

"It has come to our attention that yet another of the irregular and 
mysterious clusterings of sudden and inexplicable mass interest in 
free energy scams along with apparently simultaneous spamming of same 
is seemingly taking place. We're working on correlations of the onset 
of this enigmatic phenomenon with increased sunspot activity along 
with the incidence of mass political dissonance in California, and 
hope soon to have clear answers, as well as effective antidotes and 
vaccines (though we don't think it'll help California). We have good 
reason to believe that this might be achieved prior to the dreaded 
onset of the most critical phase of this unfortunate malaise, ie, 
widespread fascination with the alleged wonders of (aarghhh!) magnets 
in relation to claimed massive improvements in the fuel economy of 
otherwise ordinary internal combustion engines of a terrestrial 
nature, but would strongly counsel against any consideration of an 
early lifting due to overconfidence in these predictions of the BAN 
on discussion of magnets, just in case. Yours, Magnus Scroot, 
Dep.Man. CBNETAMBD-DREADCOR."

We called Magnus seeking further information but his auto-responder 
sent us 302 emails saying "Gone fishing."

Magnets nonetheless remain banned (by popular demand).

Best wishes

Keith Addison

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Re: [biofuel] Energy

[Keith Addison]

>Anyone for tomorrows energy today?
>
>http://members.fortunecity.com/geoffegel/aquagen.htm
>
>James

Hi James

Tomorrow's news yesterday... (Um, does "pure hydrogen" burn?)

From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:17 PM
Subject: [biofuel] AquaFuel

> I am writing to introduce you to the unique
> qualities of AquaFuel, a non-fossil
> alternative fuel with many applications.
>
> As you may be surprised to find out, AquaFuel
> is cheaper, safer and cleaner than acetylene,
> gasoline, diesel fuel, propane, natural gas,
> jet fuel and hydrogen. In fact, AquaFuel is
> the only known fuel that gives off oxygen when
> burned. With AquaFuel you can power plants
> and, as a free by-product, treat waste water.
>
> As you may find that you are curious to discover
> more about AquaFuel and its uses, let me suggest
> that you return this e-mail to me with your mailing
> address and we will send you a complete package.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> John E. Lux
> President AquaLux Corporation
> http://www.AquaFuel.com



>How is this different from "Brown's Gas"? Which requires as much energy to
>produce as is produced so is effectively  no use!
>   Ed Service



>Really Ed, next you'll be saying that snake oil I bought won't make
>my hair grow back. Must work or it wouldn't have been so expensive. O
>ye of little faith.
>
>It was posted simultaneously to several other lists. He just
>subscribed today. What think y'all, spam or not?
>
>"A water-based fuel that burns hotter than anything except pure
>hydrogen, produces more BTU's than natural gas and produces three
>times more ENERGY than is used to create it.
>
>"See for yourself
>* Click here to see AquaFuel being made.
>* Click here to see AquaFuel in action.
>
>"It sounds impossible, but the United States Patent Office doesn't
>seem to think so. To date, they've issued six wide-ranging patents on
>an alternative ENERGY source called AquaFuel. AquaFuel is not a
>fossil fuel like coal and oil. It actually releases pure oxygen and
>water when burned. In an exclusive demonstration to BayNews9.com at
>their St. Petersburg/Clearwater Airport-area laboratory, the inventor
>and several aides showed how the inexpensive fuel is produced."
>
>Ho-hum.
>
>Keith Addison



>Yes, I think it would be good of them to show how this is of benefit since
>the electiricty for the arc has to come from somewhere, and presumably the
>gas has to be compressed to be of much use in mobile applications.
>
>Ed B.



>I would be surprised to find out that this is just bad science, instead of a
>scam.
>
>Steve Spence



>I just checked out their website and I am highly skeptical.  This smells
>like a scam to me.  They are very unclear about what AquaFuel is.  There is
>a total lack of a scientific explaination of the process by which this
>"fuel" is used.  No molecular equations are presented which explain the
>chemical reactions involved.  In any case the law of entropy insures that
>even if this device produces a useable gas the total energy available will
>be less than the amount of electricity used to produce the aquafuel.  They
>are very vague about what source of electricity should be used.
>
>I would investigate very carefully before making any agreement or purchase.
>I would want to check the Better Business Bureau and the Chamber of Commerce.
>A search of the local newspaper going back several years wouldn't be a bad
>idea either.  When it seems too good to be true it usually is.  The other
>warning sign is that they seem to be holding back information.
>
>Andrew



>Does the word "scam" mean anything to the rest of you?
>
>robert luis rabello



> > I thought that when you ran electricity through water you got 2 
>Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen, H2O. We collected it in Jr. High School 
>science class. Anyone want to comment on it?
> >
> > Greg



>The Aqua Fuel people are using carbon in the process.  It's 
>similar to arc welding under water, with dismal exergy problems 
>equal to or exceeding electrolysis, but it produces H2 and CO as the 
>gas.  Scams like this can be patented without substantiation by 
>independent laboratories.  Invest with
>care.
>
>robert luis rabello



>> Found someone who has posted their small DIY Aquafuel generator online
>> along with links to the patents.
>>
>> http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/aquagen.htm
>>
>> Ian



>Energy negative
>
>Terry



>   As these people are close to me, about 40 miles
>I'll try to reach them monday.
>   However Fla is the scam capital of the US.
>They neglect to mention that they burn carbon
>rods for fuel too. I was wondering where the C was
>coming from.
>   jerry dycus



> I went down to AquaLux tonight after work. They were packing up but I did
> meet Mr. Lux himself. They are having a demo tomorrow (Tuesday 3-20-01) at
> 7:30 PM. When I stopped by the door was unlocked so I went in and started
> wand