[biofuel] Re: (unknown) Rush

[MH]

 I don't feel that Rush Limbaugh is mainstream.  I do feel that he is
 a good example of mainstream media.  Al Franken is making attempts
 to bring media back toward the center, but that doesn't seem to be
 going all that well.
 
 Brian


 Al Franken Kicks Limbaugh's Cyst-Filled Butt in Early Ratings
 Jillian Jonas writes, While the radio industry -- and right-wing critics
 in particular -- have written extensively about the imminent collapse
 of AAR* and its untried business plan, they may be in for a surprise.
 AAR's Arbitrend estimated ratings for April in the New York area have
 been very encouraging. 'We have proof of concept!' enthused Sinton
 in an interview with United Press International. For the 10 a.m.-3 p.m.
 time slot, among the coveted demographic of 25- to 54-year-olds,
 AAR received a 3.4 radio share, beating WABC's conservative
 talk-radio programming that includes Rush Limbaugh. WABC received a
 3.1 share. Even younger listeners are tuning in: Among 18- to
 34-year-olds, AAR received a 2.9 share, compared with WABC's 0.4
 share during the afternoons... For Sinton, the numbers show 'the
 momentum is good. The ratings indicate we can look forward to good
 things. And the proof of concept helps to bring in money in venture
 capital ... and in selling ads. Hallelujah!' 
 http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040528-025605-4040r

 *Air America Radio (AAR) http://www.airamericaradio.com
 TBTM radio http://www.takebackthemedia.com/radio.shtml


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RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans

[Steven Pfaff]

How about just running the condenser coil through a cooler, or any container 
for that matter, of ice water.  A small 6QT cooler available at any 
home/department store for $5 would work great.  We use the exact same system to 
chill a hard cider tap at the bar I work at.  Never runs warm.
 
 Good luck,
  Steven

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't know how cool it has to get in the condenser but a counterflow chiller
might work.  It's a copper pipe in a coil surrounded by a garden hose.  You run
the water through the hose the opposite direction of the flow inside the copper
coil.  It would use a lot of water though.  You can buy the fittings at a
home-brew shop or here:

www.northernbrewer.com

-Donnie

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:18:11 +0100, î Riain, Michael wrote:

 
 Kevin ,
 
 I can't offer you very much help on this one - I've been on the lookout for 
 the
 same plans myself recently but have not come across very much specifically on
 condensers .
 
 I gather from what I've read that most people channel the methanol  vapours
 through a coil which sits in a bath of cold water. I've also read references 
 to
 air cooling the coil with a fan but the water cooling seems to be favoured as
 more efficient. 
 The water in the bath will need to be cooled.  i guess if you had a large
holding
 tank circulating water through the cooling bath, the hotter water returning to
 the large tank would release its heat to the surrounding environment . 
 Apologies
 - this may be one of those things that is easier done than said.
 
 The guy with the Touchless Processor -
http://home.swbell.net/scrof/Biod_Proc.html
 
 uses a coaxial pipe system  - a small pipe sitting inside a larger one - the
 vapours run through the small pipe and a jacket of cold water circulates 
 through
 the larger one. he reckons this system, though simple, is very effective.
 
 Please let me know if you find anything useful.
 
 m
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Kevin Shea [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 01 June 2004 06:38
 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans
 
 
 Journey's website has lot's of info, but have not found any detailed plans to
 construct a condenser to recover methanol.  (unless I missed it?)
 
 Can anyone point me in the directions to construct a condenser to process 5-20
 gal of biodiesel waste (Glycerin, Methanol,etc) and convert to usable methanol
 again?
 
 Pictures appreciated
 
   
 Thank you, 
 Kevin Shea
 
 
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Re: [biofuel] Newbie Questions - Cold Weather

[rhsanborn]

Fantastic, thats exactly what I was looking for. I might have a little trouble 
if we get hit with some of the really nasty stuff, but a little mix should 
help. Which wasn't mentioned very much in the article. 

Do you guys recommend a Fossil Diesel mix, or the kerosene mix? I've read that 
the kerosene mix is more effective, but I'm still wondering whether it will 
provide adverse results. 

Second, I've also read that seperating a winter and summer mix through the 
process of heating and cooling to seperate the liquid and gel will lower the 
cetane rating. How dramatic is this lower rating? Should I then turn my 
injection timing back up by another 2-3 degrees?

Thanks,
Randall Sanborn






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Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith

[alex]

Todd,
1. Talmud is a written commentaries to Torah, not an oral law.
2. Oral law was developed during the time of receiving of 10 
commandments, when Moses was a judge and
 didn't have enough time to preside over all the cases , so he 
appointed Judges. Their rulings became a base
  for an oral law, which was later recorded in books. It encompasses 
many aspects of Jewish life including
  marital relationship, agriculture, business  and so forth.
3. Jewish religion is not a sect and there is no other oral documents  
- everything is documented in books
   and interpreted from the books.
Can you point out exactly to what Luc said which was true in your opinion?
We all have our limited life to live and we all make our choices. Some 
choices make us happier then others.
I'm happy with my believes. You don't sound very happy though.
Alex



Appal Energy wrote:

Alex,

I believe that you are in error as to what you think you did in your post.
What I suggested was that the least you could do is post something more than
generalities and your opinion, especially if your attempt is to support the
claim of liar.

- Original Message - 
From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith


  

T

  



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RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans

[rhsanborn]

Before you read further, I must start by apologizing for anything I say. I've 
never made a batch of BD or anything to that nature. But I figured I'd offer my 
own idea and plan to make a condenser. Here is a link to my lovely drawing:

http://www.agrath.com/condenser.bmp

Color coded for ease of use. Let me explain it. The red is the stuff we trying 
to get methanol out of. We heat that to the boiling point of methanol (150?). 
Then, the methanol turns into a gas and should travel up into the white funnel. 
This funnels the gas into the blue condenser. I personally would like to use a 
piece of 1 or 2 inch copper pipe with either a quarter inch piece of copper 
coiled around it to provide fresh water for cooling, and or one of those 
flexible steel tubes to do the same thing. The black and green part is simply 
the container that the methanol will drop into.  

Like I said, I really have no clue, but that is similar to what I've seen in 
other condensers. There is another one in which the condenser is submerged in 
water, I think this would work fine as well. I'm not exactly sure on the weight 
of methanol gas, so I'm not sure if it will rise to meet the condesner in my 
drawing, but I think it would. You would also need some way to keep cool water 
running through that coil, a small pump in a small tub of water should suffice 
though. 

Once again, just my silly ramblings. 

Randall Sanborn






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Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith

[alex]

What wrong with calling white - white and black - black?
Alex

Appal Energy wrote:



That's incorrect. What I did state and should have been inferred by anyone
with eyes not clouded with fear, hate or rage was that the ensuing personal
assaults were uncalled for.

  

  



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[biofuel] Re: What went wrong?

[Brian]

Keith,

Thanks for the input.  I do have some virgin oil that I could use in 
a single stage reaction, to get a better idea of what the end 
product is supposed to look like.  Despite people saying that in 
different ways, I hadn't heard it til now.  All I was hearing was 
that you have to start with the single stage process then graduate 
to the foolproof process.  This just seemed like trying to learn 
something one way then do it in a completely different way, which 
doesn't make sense.  Sometimes having a thick skull doesn't come in 
too handy, I guess.

Brian

--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Brian
 
 Kevin,
 
 Thanks for the help.  I suspect that overly vigorous agitation is 
a
 big part of the problem.  The top layer of what I have does seem 
to
 be very slowly clearing, as you predict.
 
 Try heating it. Not direct heat, use hot water, don't agitate the 
bd 
 again, try to keep it as-is in its layers.
 
 Rereading the process on the JTF site, I also notice that they say
 that if you get less than 100 cc glycerol, you probably have an
 incomplete reaction.  I don't think that I had any more than 60 or
 70 cc, which tells me that this was probably another part of the
 problem.  I'm planning to do another test batch this coming 
weekend,
 and will just process longer no matter what I think of the color 
or
 clarity of what I have after 15 minutes.  Since I am brand new to
 this, I have obviously never seen what the mix is supposed to look
 like after processing.  I am trying to make an educated guess 
based
 on a description, and obviously guessed wrong.
 
 Thanks again for the reply.  The only way that I'll figure this 
out
 is with the help of those who have gone before.
 
 Brian
 
 --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Shea [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
liter water in a clean 2 liter bottle, decanted the 
biodiesel on
 top
of it, then shook.
  
   Agitated too vigorously too early in the wash stage is probably
 the problem
   as this caused emusions.  No need to waste your test 
batch...let
 it stand
   for a month in a dark place and you should see it (almost
 completely) come
   back.
  
   I did the same thing to my earlier test batches by jetting the
 water into my
   5 gal batches with the garden hose and creating foamy 
stuff..Opps!
  
   .
   -Kevin
 
 
 Well, my first test batch is done, and the end result is less 
than
 spectacular.  Wondering if anyone has any ideas.
 
 I completed the second stage as instructed.  1/2 of my methoxide 
in,
 mix for 5 minutes, heat to 130 F, add the remaining methoxide and
 mix hot until nice golden amber.
 
 Not amber, straw yellow - some people have questioned that but I 
 don't agree with them, I've found that to be a good indicator. The 
 less reddish it is the better.
 
 This only took about 10 minutes,
 and I continued mixing for a total of 15.  Since the instructions
 say it will take one and a half to two hours, I think this may be
 one place that things went wrong, although the appearance when I
 finished was just as described.
 
 You mixed the first stage for two hours, which might have been too 
 long (especially with the extra heat it got), and the second stage 
 for 15 minutes, which was almost certainly too short.
 
 This is what I meant in the other message I've just sent, about 
 needing to get a feel for it, and why this isn't a good place to 
 start. If you were more experienced you might have had a better 
idea 
 of how to translate the mixing instructions for a full-sized batch 
to 
 the small scale you're using. Maybe it translates direct, maybe 
not - 
 I don't know how fast your drill stirs it, nor what rate of 
agitation 
 it gets with that paint stirrer, but, comparatively, neither do 
you, 
 and that makes it difficult for you. Starting instead with 
 single-stage base and virgin oil, you begin with fewer variables 
and 
 they're less critical, and it's a logical progression from there. 
Now 
 you're facing too many variables and you don't have the experience 
to 
 assess them, and you're more likely to make mistakes anyway 
because 
 you lack a basis of comparison.
 
 I let the mixture settle in an old 2 liter soda bottle for about 
6
 hours, and it looked exactly like the pictures on the JTF web 
site.
 
 Did you go straight to the wash after six hours? That might not 
have 
 been long enough. 12 hours or more is better.
 
 Clear, golden amber layer on top with dark glycerol on the 
bottom.
 I called the test batch a great success and went on to wash my 
new
 biodiesel, which is where the problem came up.  I put about 1/3
 liter water in a clean 2 liter bottle, decanted the biodiesel on 
top
 of it, then shook.  I probably shook a little vigorously, but 
with
 the assumption that the foolproof method would leave me with 
product
 which could withstand this type of washing.
 
 I'd have stirred it, not very hard, until it was mixed 
(homogenous), 
 then let it settle. In other 

Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith

[alex]

Nazis were bloody killers of innocents.
Israelis are figting bloody killers to protect innocents.
Alex

Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote:





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Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith

[jgnat1488]

HAHA..ROFLMAO!! I'm glad that someone else knows about
that.

--- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello Arthur
 
 You lose!
 
As a 
 Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a
 comparison 
 involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. There is
 a tradition in 
 many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is
 over, and whoever 
 mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever
 argument was in 
 progress. 

=
Jason Gnatowsky

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety 
deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.




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[biofuel] Re: proper storage of used cooking oil to make it last longest possible

[maudessen]

Thanks for such a practical idea; I hadn't thought of displacing 
the air in the tank itself.

For lack of a MIG welder I could just exhaust my 1984 turbodiesel 
into the tank to displace the air, couldn't I? It reminds me of the 
old technique for ridding one's yard of gophers... 

Not being a chemist, I am guessing that automobile exhaust 
from a turbodiesel would contain more carbon monoxide than 
carbon dioxide, plus a bunch of soot and other particulates. 

Other than the temperature of the gases, would the chemical 
composition of the exhaust fumes degrade the oil more rapidly 
than the air being displaced?

Maud
St. Louis, Missouri

--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, George Smiley 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It ought to  take months for your oil to go rancid, considering it 
lasts a
 week or so exposed to air at high temperatures.
 Displace air with carbon dioxide - when the tank (smaller is 
better) is just
 about full put the nozzle of a MIG gun in and press the trigger - 
18 litres/
 minute should go in - assuming you have turned off the 
welding current
 (there is usually such a function for starting out a new roll of 
wire) and
 released tension roller on the wire, then seal.  Or route the 
exhaust of
 your homebrew kit into the tank with cap on but loose, 
preferably via some
 drier chemical.  If the oil is clean and dry it should last years..
- 
 Original Message - 
 From: maudessen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:36 AM
 Subject: [biofuel] Re: proper storage of used cooking oil to 
make it last
 longest possible
 
 
  I have a related question.
 
  Can anyone think of something that would float on the 
surface of
  the WVO without melting?
 
  I would like to reduce oxidation and increase storage life by
  covering the surface area of WVO stored in a large tank with 
a lot
  of floating objects that won't melt in the WVO...maybe ping 
pong
  balls? Styrofoam peanuts? Scraps of bubble pack?
 
  Would home heating oil float on the WVO or mix with it? Is 
there
  some other oil that would float on WVO?
 
  I have scavenged three home heating oil tanks that I hope to 
use
  for my future WVO Collection Coop. These 265 gallon tanks 
are
  about 5 feet long x 30 inches high x 18 inches wide. The 
ends
  are ovoid. So what this means is that a partial tank of WVO
  exposes a surface area of somewhat less than 5 feet by 18
  inches to the air within the tank.
 
  Thoughts or ideas?
 
  Thanks!
 
  Maud
  St. Louis, Missouri
 
  --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Neoteric Biofuels Inc
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Kept cool and in the dark, filled to the top (as close as you 
can)
  and
   sealed, it could last months without a problem - but it's still
  best to
   store for as short a period as possible.
  
   Edward Beggs
   http://www.biofuels.ca
  
  
   On Monday, May 24, 2004, at 02:38 PM, TJ Ferreira wrote:
  
While I start buying the parts to build my $150 Fumeless
  Processor, I
wonder what the best way to store any used cooking oil 
that I
  pick up
from local restaurants and how long it should last to be
  useable for
biodiesel.  So far I only picked up a test 5 gallon sample 
but
  have a
couple other restaurants lined up to allow me to get used 
oil
  from
them.  My current 5 gallon container is in a cardboard box
  surrounding
a plastic internal jug.  I filled most of the way up but still is
  some
room up at top.  I placed a sandwich baggie over the top 
fill
  hole
with a rubber band to keep stuff out.  I then placed in my
  shed.  Is
this OK or will the oil go bad quickly?  Are we talking 
about
  months
or days for the oil to go bad?  I just want to start collecting 
it
while I can and am building the processor so when it is
  done, I am
ready to go.  If there is a better way to store it, let me 
know.
   
Thanks
   
Thomas




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Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith

[Appal Energy]

Alex,

You seem to think that it's my place to determine whether one person or
another is speaking the truth about your pet religion and all its
peculiarities, nuances and distinctions.

It's not. Nor do I care for it to be.

You also seem to think that I care to be drawn into your pettiness and
warmongoring.

I do not.

My opinion on only one matter was stated. That was relative to the
needless, hate-filled and derogatory personal attack that was issued upon a
list member, one who quite frankly has offered up considerably more
substantiation for his opinions than you, Arthur and Matt combined up to
this point.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/35008

Unfortunately, rather than address line item by line item, the lot of you
prefer to exhibit violent outgassing in public space and continue to do so.

Hardly a responsible approach. Hardly one that instills better
understanding. And hardly one that generates much sentiment other than
disgust and disdain for those who erupt in violent rage and . Gandhi or
Mother Theresa the three of you certainly are not.

As for my personal happiness? This is now twice that you and your lot have
suffered your opinion upon me, solely because I have neither need or desire
to tolerate your uncontrolled rage, assinigned idealism and pettiness.

Frankly? The only thing that makes my day unpleasant is having to tolerate
the Arthurs, Alexs and Matts of this world. Once such obstacles are
relegated to their appropriate level of insignificance life unfailingly
saunters on quite happily.

Good day.

[Permanent good can never be the outcome of untruth and violence. --Mahatma
Gandhi]

- Original Message - 
From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith


 Todd,
 1. Talmud is a written commentaries to Torah, not an oral law.
 2. Oral law was developed during the time of receiving of 10
 commandments, when Moses was a judge and
  didn't have enough time to preside over all the cases , so he
 appointed Judges. Their rulings became a base
   for an oral law, which was later recorded in books. It encompasses
 many aspects of Jewish life including
   marital relationship, agriculture, business  and so forth.
 3. Jewish religion is not a sect and there is no other oral documents
 - everything is documented in books
and interpreted from the books.
 Can you point out exactly to what Luc said which was true in your opinion?
 We all have our limited life to live and we all make our choices. Some
 choices make us happier then others.
 I'm happy with my believes. You don't sound very happy though.
 Alex



 Appal Energy wrote:

 Alex,
 
 I believe that you are in error as to what you think you did in your
post.
 What I suggested was that the least you could do is post something more
than
 generalities and your opinion, especially if your attempt is to support
the
 claim of liar.
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:28 AM
 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
 
 
 
 
 T
 
 
 


 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith

[Appal Energy]

Wake up laddie.

Launching missiles into public spaces is no less murderous than bombing a
bus. Indiscriminate killing is exactly that, no matter by who's hand.

The only thing that prevents you from seeing this and numerous other
aberrations is the one blind eye that you keep turned to reality.


- Original Message - 
From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith


 Nazis were bloody killers of innocents.
 Israelis are figting bloody killers to protect innocents.
 Alex

 Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote:






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Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith

[Keith Addison]

MM

You make chains of dubious connections.

 
 I've no choice but to work with the two quotes you've provided, one
 of them from me, in which I did not as you allege praise Luc mightily
 nor even unmightily for anything, nor have I yet expressed any
 opinion on the substance of any of his posts. I haven't noticed
 anyone praising Luc for raising these topics. I fail to see how you
 can extract this from my quote above, or from anything I've said
 about it. My point was clear, Luc provided some substantiation for
 his views, Arthur provided no substantiation at all for his highly
 contemptuous dismissal of them, and that doesn't fly here, whether
 it's in discussing Judaism and Zionism or whether unwashed biodiesel
 can damage your motor. Please explain what you mean.

What I mean is that generally you seem glad to have the topic raised,

There is no indication of that, I've made no such comments, nor 
implied it in any way, and it's not the case. If you wish to 
interpret such a silence as loud, then you should consider that that 
might be saying more about you than it does about me.

and that generally some of Luc's comments points seem to be
agreed-with, by yourself and-or by Todd.

And-or? What does that mean, and-or? You want nice, clearcut, 
polarised sides, for-us and against-us? I doubt very much that Todd 
and I have any idea whether we agree on these issues or not. We do 
appear to agree that, REGARDLESS OF THE SUBSTANCE OF HIS ARGUMENTS, 
the manner in which Luc has been attacked lacks integrity.

The four of you (I'll have to include you now) just can't see that 
obvious distinction. I expected that, and pointed it out in the first 
place, a strange thing to have to do:

 Now perhaps some sort of my enemy's enemy is my friend type
 thinking may lead you to conclude that I'm defending Luc. I'm not
 defending Luc, that's up to him, if he chooses to, but I am attacking
 you.

Yet Arthur, for one, will apparently ignore anything that needs 
ignoring in order to conclude that I'm supporting Luc's views on The 
Protocols so he can write me off as a Nazi or whatever as well. I'll 
be very damn' generous and conclude that it's a blind spot rather 
than intentional, which is one hell of a lot more generous than he's 
been, and the rest of you too.

and that generally some of Luc's comments points seem to be
agreed-with, by yourself and-or by Todd.

Not in either case. Go and have another look. You're seeing things 
that aren't there, neither said nor implied. I wonder why that might 
be? I have expressed no opinion on Luc's comments, nor has any such 
opinion been implied, and I believe that to be the case with Todd as 
well.

I haven't responded to any of Luc's posts in this thread. In response 
to Matt, I made some points to distinguish Zionism from Judaism, 
without commenting on Luc's posts. I asked Matt if he saw an attack 
on Zionism as anti-Semitic, and asked Luc if he was bashing Jews or 
bashing Zionists. Matt didn't respond, Luc did, and I haven't 
responded to Luc's response.

If I have erroneously spoken
for you then I apologize.

You have. But this is a very backhanded apology and I don't accept it.

Maybe I should have said that he is being
strongly supported at least in his right to continue the topic.

You'd be wrong again, there's no indication of that either. I said it 
was up to him whether he chose to defend himself against these 
attacks, not the same thing at all. You'd deny him that? You might 
notice that he has not defended himself - he's sent several other 
posts on different topics but hasn't responded at all to being called 
a liar, a hate-filled Nazi, the kind of person that brings death and 
destruction to the world, an instrument of Satan and so on and on by 
people who've made just such specious misconnections as you have and 
have offered nothing by way of substance to justify their attacks. 
Unlike Luc. Look at their proof - white is white and black is black 
and Luc is a liar. Look at this circular argument: My attack was 
substantiated by the using the Protocols as a basis for his 
argument which further my claim that his arguments are ugly and 
hateful. From which it must therefore most obviously follow that if 
I disagree with such a specious argument then I'm necessarily 
supporting Luc and agree with the Protocols. That's pure BS. Yet 
you say this:

conversation, and further there are generally accepted and I think
valuable principles of politesse, civility, friendliness and I guess
dialectic standards by which I mean we try to hold ourselves to some
sort of standard for good thinking.

It puzzles me how this can co-exist with the rest of your post.

However, enough time and effort seems to be put forth by you in
responding to Luc's detractors that I was surprised by the lack of any
response to his introduction into the conversation of what I take to
be stands-out-like-a-sore-thumb low-level anti-semitic drivel.

See above, above and above.

His
substantiation 

Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan

[Hakan Falk]

Matt,

Please,

At 01:49 03/06/2004, you wrote:
I am glad to hear that you are not full of hate (you could not be all bad...
you are into biodiesel!).

My thing is http://energysavingnow.com/  and why I got caught in biofuels, 
was very much by admiration of what Keith is doing to actively help the 
developing countries, in many more ways than getting Americans to make 
biodiesel. I have gone through a couple of test batches, just to see if it 
was that simple and because I like to know what people are talking about. 
Made it simple for me, with SVO and by following instructions exactly, so I 
still do not have had the problems that many seems to get. This leaves me 
with a feeling that I do not know enough anyway, other than it is workable 
and viable, which was what I wanted to know in the first place. I had a lot 
of practise from making Ethanol when I was younger, so I did not have to 
revisit that. LOL


However, your rhetoric is not factual and is clearly based on very one-sided
information.  In this context, even if you do not intend it, you are
propagating a hateful message.

I have a lot of information, from all kind of sides and am very active in 
follow up things. Maybe you do not like some of my conclusions and 
reactions to events, but that does not mean that I hate you or anything 
like it. I have not had this reactions from anyone for a long time, not 
since my son were a child.  As I said before, I had some you do not love 
me anymore and similar pressures, but not pure talk about hate.

What is my message? Please tell me.


Jew's have a saying... Never Forget.  It is easy to think  that events
such as the holocaust could never happen again.  However, those of us whose
families have been at the receiving end of hate throughout the ages, are
especially attune to hate speech.  I have to confront you when you spew this
sort of rhetoric -- I know where it can lead.

What rhetoric or hate speech?

I think that we have a couple of recent holocausts and one ongoing in 
Sudan. It is obvious that those things are happening all the time.


I believe that there are many people at fault for where we are today...
Extremist Muslims, Christians, and Jews...  Not to mention plenty of people
who are just plane power hungry and selfish.  To single out any one group or
person to blame is hate -- and cannot help us reach peace.

Who singled out one group? Muslims, Christians and Jews have the same God, 
so why are the same children of God killing each other over books? It is 
almost a farce, if it wasn't so tragic. Especially since their common God 
told them not to kill each other, it is a clear message in all the variants 
of the books. I am not God and it is not my children, but I am sick and 
tired of constantly getting involved in what his kids are messing up. 
Obviously they do not listen to their God.

I have my own personal relationship with God and his basic rules, which I 
can fully subscribe to. I do not find that I can subscribe to any version 
of Muslim, Christian nor Jewish practises, since I find them all to be too 
corrupted. Therefore I do not hate, which is a very wasteful, useless and 
energy consuming exercise anyway, I am a bit lazy. -:)


On a brighter note, I finaly got a tank of Biodiesel in my new truck today!
6 months in the making...

Congratulations. -:)

Hakan




- Original Message -
From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan


 
  Matt,
 
  You are the first person in my life who accused me of being full of hate.
I
  have been called many things in heated discussions, but never this. I just
  wonder, who am I supposed to hate?
 
  This is not completely true, because there are women in my life that have
  said you do not love me anymore or even you say this because you hate
  me etc.. This is not really the same thing as full of hate, but it
might
  be a similar strategy. So what do you want from me, to prove that I do not
  hate you? Acceptance of Israeli war crimes? Accept Israeli discrimination
  and appropriations of properties? Acceptance of Israeli targeting and
  killing? Acceptance of Israeli internment of people, for years and without
  legal trials? Accept creation and maintenance of permanent refugee
  ghettos?  What is the difference between the German raids in Warsaw and
  Israeli raids in Gaza?
 
  I have also been accused of having an authority complex in fighting
  mainstream opinion and policies. It is something in this, because I find
it
  difficult to accept things that are not based on merits. I am happy that I
  do not complicate my life with hate, neither of individuals nor groups of
  individuals. Hate is a very unproductive and energy wasting activity.
 
  I think that it was a lot of things that triggered the WWII holocaust and
  it was mostly a war of financial interests, in combination with a very
  large Jewish refugee problem in 

[biofuel] passive 'carboy' methoxide mixer method for homebrewers- photos

[girl mark]

I posted this a while ago at veggieavenger but I don't think I announced it 
here (I apologise for double posting if I did).


a link to the how-to-
http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=403


  It's a photo how-to on mixing up methoxide using the passive carboy 
methoxide mixer method. That technique is called 'methoxide the easy way' 
on Journeytoforever and it's a good start for small systems (ie reactor 
tanks under 50 or 60 gallons). I think that the biodieselgear readymade 
reactor also used something like this for a methoxide mixer.

  I added to the 'methoxide the easy way'  technique when I found that it 
is possible to add threaded plumbing to the lids of carboys- it makes the 
whole process very hands-off and eliminates contact with methanol, 
especially if the local methanol distributor is willing to pump directly 
into carboys (ERC in San Lorenzo in the Bay Area will do this).

mark




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RE: [biofuel] Methanol Supplier in The UK?

[BEN ROBERTS]

Hi Luke

Try  Brown and Forth at www.brownandforth.co.uk.  They have quoted me a 
price for an IBC (1000 litre Independent Bulk Container)  of methanol at 
£240 pmt (per metric ton).  This works out to 19.2 pence per litre (I think) 
as an IBC weighs 800 kg according to Laura at Browns.

They sell all the chemicals required for the process.  Still waiting for 
quotes on these as I'm wanting much smaller amounts relative to the 
methanol.

I think they're probably as good a place as any to start anyway.

regards

Ben

From: initialised [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] Methanol Supplier in The UK?
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 09:18:34 -

Hi,

I'm looking to start producing some Bio-Diesel. But have come across
a big stubling block. Where do I get methanol? So far I have only
found it as an additive to ethanol in methylated spirit at about
£2.40/Litre I guess I could try using this but since I've never done
it before I'd like to start with a simpler methanol based method.

I found a post in the BioFuel Information Archive from Mark
Schofield talking about £20/25L pure methanol. I would like to buy
some please if you're still selling. Otherwise could you give me
some hints?

Luke



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Re: [biofuel] Interesting news about crude reserves

[C1Krug]

In a message dated 6/2/2004 12:41:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38645
This was very interesting, 
thank you,
Charles Krugman


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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RE: [biofuel] Plans for WVO filtration

[Richard U]

 -Original Message-
 From: dfireplowd 
 I have not been able to find FREE plans for WVO filtration.  Simple 
 gravity feed seems obvious and easy.  But I am thinking more along 
 the lines of electric pump and 50 gallons at a time.  
 
I am going to beat Keith to the punch, and send you to the deluxe
sgroup archives linked at the bottom of every post.
You'll see references about everything from a Heated centrifuge to
panty-hose. But I could find very few links or hints to finding the
actual hardware.
I am personally looking into (but have not tried) bag filters, go to:
 http://www.mcmaster.com/  and start with page 328 of their catalog.

Let us know what you end up with, and how it works out.

Richard U




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Re: [biofuel] Re: What went wrong?

[Peggyru32]

must not be too thick yer making biofuel!   keep it up from peggy who is 
actully dave



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RE: [biofuel] Plans for WVO filtration

[Ken Richardson]

Try page 314 in McMaster-Carr #108

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[biofuel] Re: (unknown) Rush

[Brian]

Thanks for the update.  The only source that I have on how AAR is 
doing is mainstream media, which started tolling its death knell 
well before it even hit the airwaves.

Brian

--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I don't feel that Rush Limbaugh is mainstream.  I do feel that 
he is
  a good example of mainstream media.  Al Franken is making 
attempts
  to bring media back toward the center, but that doesn't seem to 
be
  going all that well.
  
  Brian
 
 
  Al Franken Kicks Limbaugh's Cyst-Filled Butt in Early Ratings
  Jillian Jonas writes, While the radio industry -- and right-wing 
critics
  in particular -- have written extensively about the imminent 
collapse
  of AAR* and its untried business plan, they may be in for a 
surprise.
  AAR's Arbitrend estimated ratings for April in the New York area 
have
  been very encouraging. 'We have proof of concept!' enthused Sinton
  in an interview with United Press International. For the 10 a.m.-
3 p.m.
  time slot, among the coveted demographic of 25- to 54-year-olds,
  AAR received a 3.4 radio share, beating WABC's conservative
  talk-radio programming that includes Rush Limbaugh. WABC received 
a
  3.1 share. Even younger listeners are tuning in: Among 18- to
  34-year-olds, AAR received a 2.9 share, compared with WABC's 0.4
  share during the afternoons... For Sinton, the numbers show 'the
  momentum is good. The ratings indicate we can look forward to good
  things. And the proof of concept helps to bring in money in 
venture
  capital ... and in selling ads. Hallelujah!' 
  http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040528-025605-4040r
 
  *Air America Radio (AAR) http://www.airamericaradio.com
  TBTM radio http://www.takebackthemedia.com/radio.shtml




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Re: [biofuel] Plans for WVO filtration

[Appal Energy]

You need something along the lines of a trash pump if you expect to
capitalize on all the grease/oil, rather than just the better grade of oils.

You also need to make considerations for winter flow of feedstock if working
in cooler climes or with animal fats and hydrogenated oils.

That said, gravity is perhaps the better and certainly is the cheapest
method. A dump at a level lower than the collection container permits
gravity to empty the solids and thick fats and oils out of the collection
container. A set of wire screens of reduced mesh and a final layer of filter
paper grades the material and prevents immediate clogging of the filter
medium.

To get all the fats/oils to pass through the screens and filter paper the
dump will need to contain a heat exchanger that rests in the midst of what
is being filtered in order to melt it. Something along the line of a grain
hopper with a coiled heat exchanger inside it with a collection tank below
would be the visual.

Water and most ultra-fine particulates settle at the bottom of the tank. Oil
is drawn off from slightly above the interface and a final in-line filter
would remove the last of the particulates in the feedstock prior to going
into the reactor.

Todd Swearingen

Once solids are filtered out
- Original Message - 
From: dfireplowd [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 5:29 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Plans for WVO filtration


 I have not been able to find FREE plans for WVO filtration.  Simple
 gravity feed seems obvious and easy.  But I am thinking more along
 the lines of electric pump and 50 gallons at a time.

 BTW: Forum newb. Be gentle.





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[biofuel] Sulfuric acid in the US

[Pool, Ryan]

Ok, it's time for me to get geared up to try the foolproof method.  I want to 
get leads on some of the supplies in case it takes a long time to find them.  
I've got everything I'll need except a good source of sulfuric acid.
 
According to Aleks' documentation you need 95% sulfuric acid.  The only 
strength I've found is reagent grade which one person thought was 93%, not 
95%.  No one I've talked to knows how to find 95%.
 
Also, the only person that I've found that will sell it in small quantities is 
about 200 miles away, and wants nearly $100US per liter by the time you include 
all the shipping charges to get it to him.  Then I have to go pick it up from 
him.
 
There's got to be a better way, I just haven't found it yet.
 
I know there are one or two people in St. Louis, Missouri, US, and central 
Missouri on here.  Where do you get it?  
 
 
Thanks,
 
Ryan


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith

[alex]

Todd:

Appal Energy wrote:

Alex,

You seem to think that it's my place to determine whether one person or
another is speaking the truth about your pet religion and all its
peculiarities, nuances and distinctions.

It's not. Nor do I care for it to be.

So you are impliing that if its a lie you don't care?



My opinion on only one matter was stated. That was relative to the
needless, hate-filled and derogatory personal attack that was issued upon a
list member, one who quite frankly has offered up considerably more
substantiation for his opinions than you, Arthur and Matt combined up to
this point.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/35008

Unfortunately, rather than address line item by line item, the lot of you
prefer to exhibit violent outgassing in public space and continue to do so.


Ok, this is what the line says: :This letter also regects Talmud , 
otherwice known as  The Oral Law much to their credit as this Talmud is
again the ruling factor in the action...where killing non-jews is 
considered as an offering  in sacrifice to God.

My reply:
1. Talmud is a written commentaries to Torah, not an oral law.
2. There is nothing in Talmud which says that killing of non-jews is a 
sacrifice to God.
3. Talmud in fact deals with issue of non-jews and says that jews 
should  treat non-jews no differently then jews.
 Also only animals are used as a sacrifice to God.

Therefore I conclude that Luc posted whole bunch of lies pertaining to 
Jewish religion.
Do you agree?

Hardly a responsible approach. Hardly one that instills better
understanding. And hardly one that generates much sentiment other than
disgust and disdain for those who erupt in violent rage and . Gandhi or
Mother Theresa the three of you certainly are not.

Why does he has to use out right lies as an argument? To influence 
unconvinced?
To demonize Jewish people? I'm sure Gandhi or Mother Theresa wouldn't 
like this approach.
I'm agains demonizing any group of prople, being it German, Palestinians 
or other group.
I think that every one has to be responsible for what he does on 
individual basis.


As for my personal happiness? This is now twice that you and your lot have
suffered your opinion upon me, solely because I have neither need or desire
to tolerate your uncontrolled rage, assinigned idealism and pettiness.

Frankly? The only thing that makes my day unpleasant is having to tolerate
the Arthurs, Alexs and Matts of this world. Once such obstacles are
relegated to their appropriate level of insignificance life unfailingly
saunters on quite happily.

It seems to me that Lus is a friend of yours. There is a saying - tell 
me who is your friend and I tell who you are...
Alex


Good day.

[Permanent good can never be the outcome of untruth and violence. --Mahatma
Gandhi]

- Original Message - 
From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith


  

Todd,
1. Talmud is a written commentaries to Torah, not an oral law.
2. Oral law was developed during the time of receiving of 10
commandments, when Moses was a judge and
 didn't have enough time to preside over all the cases , so he
appointed Judges. Their rulings became a base
  for an oral law, which was later recorded in books. It encompasses
many aspects of Jewish life including
  marital relationship, agriculture, business  and so forth.
3. Jewish religion is not a sect and there is no other oral documents
- everything is documented in books
   and interpreted from the books.
Can you point out exactly to what Luc said which was true in your opinion?
We all have our limited life to live and we all make our choices. Some
choices make us happier then others.
I'm happy with my believes. You don't sound very happy though.
Alex



Appal Energy wrote:



Alex,

I believe that you are in error as to what you think you did in your
  

post.
  

What I suggested was that the least you could do is post something more
  

than
  

generalities and your opinion, especially if your attempt is to support
  

the
  

claim of liar.

- Original Message - 
From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith




  

T



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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[biofuel] FW: Petrol prices - want to do something about it - boycott Esso Shell

[î Riain, Michael]

With petrol(gas) prices here(Ireland) hitting EUR1/litre (1US gallon = 3.5 
litres, I think) people are really getting concerned.  Hence this campaign (see 
below) to boycott Esso  Shell


m


-Original Message-
From: aine ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 01 June 2004 15:06
To: David (Eircom); [EMAIL PROTECTED]; î Riain, Michael; Sadbh
Subject: FWD: Petrol prices - want to do something about it, read
on...


= Original Message From geraldine fahy [EMAIL PROTECTED] =
 Note: forwarded message attached.





___
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gives you 6MB! Get Yahoo! Mail http://uk.mail.yahoo.com


- Forwarded Message -
From: SinŽad [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Petrol prices - want to do something about it, read on...

We are going to hit over EUR1 a litre by the summer. Want petrol prices to
come down? We need to take some intelligent, united action.

Philip Hollsworth offered this good idea: This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than
the don't buy petrol on a certain day campaign that was going around last
April or May! The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we
wouldn't continue to hurt ourselves by refusing to buy petrol. It was more
of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them. HOWEVER, whoever
thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work. Please
read it and join in!

Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think
that the cost of a litre is CHEAP at 90c to 95c, we need to take aggressive
action to teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace not sellers. With
the price of petrol going up more each day, we consumers need to take
action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come down is if
we hit them in the pocket by not purchasing their Petrol! Moreover, we can
do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. Heres the idea:

For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the two biggest
oil companies (which now are one), ESSO and BP. If they are not selling any
petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their
prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact,
we need to reach literally millions of ESSO and BP petrol buyers.
It's really simple to do!! Now, don't whimp out on me at this point...keep
reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!

I am sending this note to a lot of people. If each of you send it to at
least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten more
(300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth
generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers! If
those three million get excited and pass this on to ten
friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes
one level further, you guessed it... .. THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!

Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all - and not
buy at ESSO/BP. How long would all that take? If each of us sends this email
out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people
could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!! I'll bet you didn't
think you and I had that much potential, did you! Acting together we
can make a difference. If this makes sense to you, please pass this message
on. PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES.


Action:


It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your petrol
at anywhere BUT BP and ESSO.

Aine Ryan,
Applied Language Lecturer,
NUI Galway,
091 524411 ext 3688


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[biofuel] Re: Interesting news about crude reserves

[Brian]

I found this article interesting, but have serious questions about 
its validity.  The site on which it is posted is full of right wing 
misrepresentation and religious blather.  I would have questions 
about this report if it was quoted on NPR, but in this setting I 
find it to be pretty darn questionable at best.

Brian

--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In a message dated 6/2/2004 12:41:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38645
 This was very interesting, 
 thank you,
 Charles Krugman
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[biofuel] GERMANY: Europeans' car preferences reduce fuel price shock

[murdoch]

http://www.just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=44608

Very good article, I thought, bringing to our attention not only Europeans'
differing reactions to fuel price hikes, but also related debatable issues, such
as whether Hybrids or Hydrogen will really fly in Europe.

GERMANY: Europeans' car preferences reduce fuel price shock 
03 Jun 2004 
Source: just-auto.com editorial team


 
Europeans' preference for smaller cars and their embrace of fuel-sipping diesel
engines mean high oil prices are not as much of a problem to car shoppers,
compared with the US, especially when high taxes mask the impact of price
changes at the pump, a Reuters report said.

Because gas is so expensive here anyway, Europeans tend to drive around in
smaller cars. I really don't think it's a major issue, Stephen Cheetham, an
auto analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein Ltd, said of surging crude oil prices,
according to the news agency.

Analysis of 20 years of fuel prices, vehicle demand and stock return data yields
little evidence that higher petrol prices are either good or bad for European
auto stocks or car sales in the US and major European markets, he reportedly
said.

Renault executive vice president Georges Douin told Reuters last week that
European manufacturers would escape damage given the popularity of diesel plus
new speed limits in some places that were limiting fuel consumption.

 
[etc.]


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[biofuel] Video or Sound File of a Biofuel Making Class

[murdoch]

  Last week in Albuquerque my friends and I built a system (and made liter 
batches and a fullsize batch of fuel)- and someone made a bad-quality home 
video of the process. it's too low-quality to edit into something 
presentable for public use, but watching it made me realize that a video of 
one of the classes would be a good tool for the public. It'd be good if it 
were possible to make it available on the internet, though I'm not sure 
what this takes in terms of bandwidth or other downloading issues.

While you were away, there was some further brainstorming about this in the
groups, and some debate over DVD, VHS, etc.  But my thought was that while that
tech talk is often interesting, it got away a little from the point.

I don't have experience with video, but have been doing amateur digital still
photography for awhile now.  My guess (not that educated, but slightly) is that,
particularly since I'm not an expert, I try to err on the side of shooting in
the highest possible resolution available to me.  Not just a matter of getting
an expensive camera, but also one strongly affected by lighting (outdoor makes
my life easier with my cheap digi-cams), the experience of the person shooting,
their familiarity with their camera-equipment, whether they've taken an extra
bit of time to prepare, etc.

Could this be done successfully perhaps in one of your classes put forth in a
city with one or two fans, or class-attendees, who might be willing to trade you
a video shoot (and edit) for the class fee for x number of people?  Maybe some
money would have to change hands.  I don't know video and its costs.

With still photography, once you shoot in your high res camera, if you are not
incompetent, you can edit down to a much smaller downloadable-friendly file that
most people can live with the compromises in quality.  I prefer to try to edit
down from a high res file, because if you start with a low-res file and don't
like it, there's not much you can do about it.

For video, this might be harder or impossible, depending on the length of the
file.  If, for the sake of discussion, you shoot two full days of classes (I
don't see why not), say 16 hours of classes that you want to make available to
people to download, the only way I can see this is if they were shrunk down to a
very very small screen size and low resolution, with reasonable resolution for
the sound side, and then the folks might be able to squeeze it on to a computer.

If you were to edit for highlights, say making your file anywhere from 15
minutes to two hours, then of course your file size would shrink and you might
even be able to provide higher quality.  You could also provide a link to a
point-and-click way or folks to order the video on DVDs or VHS.

All of this is a ton of work, I think.  If you want to avoid every last bit of
headache (I certainly would), but wouldn't mind seeing the video get made, maybe
a video-making profit-oriented person could be incentivized to do it all for
you, without much hassle-to-you, and then just send you your part of the
royalties.  They could make some video downloadable for free (and you could
write this into your agreement, to ensure that not too much is held back as they
try to calculate what to charge for and not charge for), but cripple it enough
to make it somewhat desireable to pay the whole shebang for a DVD or VHS
covering things in greater depth.

You could also record just sound, which would not require all these problems and
could easily be done.  I just think it's a bit hard to get an idea of things
with just sound.  It might be easier to record video and then separate out the
sound file and a few low-res still photos.






  As far as what Murdoch says about it potentially causing a drop in 
attendance at my workshops, I don't think that's a concern at all (and it 
would be fine if it did anyway, I'm not doing this to make money). The main 
problem for me is just the time involved in putting together a quality 
video sometime, and the large amount of work that goes into editing 
something like that (video production skill is something I completely lack 
and am not interested in learning at this time...)

Anyway I'll put some thought into making this happen someday. I don't have 
any time to deal with it for the next couple of months but will keep my 
ears open for some way to make an internet video available.


mark


At 08:00 AM 5/24/2004 -0700, you wrote:
On Sun, 23 May 2004 22:03:55 -, you wrote:

 Hey Keith,
 
 After lurking and occationally posting on this list, I gotta agree
 with you guys about Fryer to the Fuel Tank. I use it mostly these
 days for doing test batches.  But, considering the wealth of info you
 and Todd Swearington and Girlmark have, you ought to collectively
 write something that would at least give Fryer to the Fuel Tank a run
 for its money.
 'specially considering your background in journalism.
 And it would be a great way to help support the work you guy are
 

[biofuel] authority complexes

[murdoch]

Hakan:

I have also been accused of having an authority complex in fighting 
mainstream opinion and policies. 

A good thing to be accused of, perhaps.


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan

[murdoch]

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:19:58 +0200, you wrote:


Matt,

Please,

At 01:49 03/06/2004, you wrote:
I am glad to hear that you are not full of hate (you could not be all bad...
you are into biodiesel!).

My thing is http://energysavingnow.com/  and why I got caught in biofuels, 
was very much by admiration of what Keith is doing to actively help the 
developing countries, in many more ways than getting Americans to make 
biodiesel. I have gone through a couple of test batches, just to see if it 
was that simple and because I like to know what people are talking about. 
Made it simple for me, with SVO and by following instructions exactly, so I 
still do not have had the problems that many seems to get. This leaves me 
with a feeling that I do not know enough anyway, other than it is workable 
and viable, which was what I wanted to know in the first place. 

This about where I am (but still ahead of me).  Sometimes I take a class or try
an activity to verify what I want to take away from it.  My guess is that, in
the unlikely event I were to soon have enough money for a car, I might try one
that is already pre-outfitted by a qualified outfit to run on SVO.  This just
might be the right solution for me, at that time.  I could also purchase
biodiesel at this or that station.

But this is not to say that I think making ones own fuel is not very interesting
or a desireable activity.  Just something that I don't want to do right now, in
part out of respect for some of the difficulties that I think would come up.


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Re: Re: [biofuel] building your own diesel motorcycle

[Matt Golden]

There is a diesel KLR in Europe.

- Original Message - 
From: "Peer Plaut" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Busyditch" 
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: Re: [biofuel] building your own diesel motorcycle


It is my understanding that a major mc manufacture is going to build a
diesel, I think suzuki??
Peer

Original Message ---



HA I have had this very idea for years. Not too many engines out there
with
the proper requirements, most of the small engines I looked at are
industrial and do not have the capacity. It may be posible to use one of
the
new .8 liter Benz engines used in the SmartCar. It is a fun project I
hope
to try one day.
- Original Message - 
From: "tshadow6" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:47 PM
Subject: [biofuel] building your own diesel motorcycle


> Has anyone out there built a diesel powered motorcycle? If so, let
> me know, I believe it would be a good project.
>
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/
biofuel.html
>
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> http://infoarchivenet/sgroup/b
iofuel/
>
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Re: [biofuel] Interesting news about crude reserves

[Bruce Colley]

The idea that fossil fuel is really a misnomer and that oil is constantly 
being produced within the earth is intriguing and something that I have read 
about before, but not in the detail that this article describes.  Of course, 
the issues of global warming, oil spills, tensions between the oil haves and 
oil have nots would loom as large as ever, even if this wealth were to 
materialize.  As to the reality of today's energy situation, this is depicted 
very well on the BP website:   http://www.bp.com/
If you click on this link:  
http://www.bp.com/subsection.do?categoryId=10104contentId=2015020  it 
should take you directly to  the Statistical Review - Downloads page where 
you can choose Oil, Natural Gas, Coal, Nuclear Power, etc., and there is 
considerable useful statistical information for these fuels.  On the bottom of 
the menu on the left side of that same page, there is an Energy Charting Tool 
link.  If you click on that and then click on  Launch the energy charting 
tool (in the middle of the page), you can get very useful and flexible 
graphical information.  One of the most useful charts is the Oil 
Reserves/Production ratios chart.  The Oil Reserves/Production ratio indicates 
the number of years of remaining supply for a given region, or the world as a 
whole, based on proven reserves and the current level of production.  For 
example, click on the + for Oil Reserves/Production Ratios to expand the 
menu, and then click on North America - Oil R/P Ratio and on the right side, 
click on All (years) and you will see a chart with a declining trend that 
terminates at the number 10 by the end of 2002 - i.e. there is a 10 year 
supply of oil remaining in North America.  So for anyone in this country that 
is already concerned that we are using and importing too much oil, then just 
wait about 10 years and see how it looks.  (Homework assignment - what is the 
2002 North America R/P ratio for natural gas?)  The most optimistic estimates 
that I have heard for North Slope oil production, even if that were to proceed, 
 would only add about 1.5 years to the U.S. supply, and all of this assumes 
consumption at the current rate, an unlikely scenario in light of increasing 
consumption trends (see consumption charts).  
I have found this information very useful in conveying the urgency of our 
current situation (and it can also be useful if one is accused of the sky is 
falling rhetoric.)Also, in connection with this, the June issue of 
National Geographic has a cover story on the subject of oil supplies and the 
end of cheap oil, and it also has some very good graphical information.
As to British Petroleum, I wish that BP really meant Beyond Petroleum 
in a literal sense and not in the figurative sense that they (Lord Brown) mean 
it, but they do seem to be much more progressive than their competitors.  In 
any case, they have provided some very useful information in an excellent  user 
friendly format.  .  

Bruce Colley, Sustainable Energy Project   
http://www.sustainableenergyproject.org
  - Original Message - 
  From: John Donahue 
  To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 8:45 AM
  Subject: [biofuel] Interesting news about crude reserves


  Hi: I am a lurker in this group,  mostly just reading what others have 
  to say.

  I ran across this yesterday
  http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38645

  Regarding the source of petroleum  reserves.

  

  John Donahue



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RE: [biofuel] Methanol Supplier in The UK?

[mark schofield]

Hi

I can supply anhydrous methanol at £20 for 25L.

Regards

Mark

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[biofuel] Methanol in UK - £20 for 25L

[mark schofield]

 Luke

Where are you based? I still have methanol at £20
for 25L.

Mark






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Re: Re[2]: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith

[murdoch]

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 16:47:56 -0400, you wrote:

Hallo MM,

The  problem  we  have  here  is  twofold.  First,  just as the phrase
national  security  hides  a  lot  of sins (so to speak), the phrase
anti-semite intimidates and silences a lot of tongues and pens. This
is  why  there  is  *no  comment*  from  the all-of-a-sudden too-busy
gallery when he brings forth a statement such as the above. It is all
too  common for anyone, particularly someone with a name such as mine,
who voices any criticism of Israel regardless of whether the criticism
is  deserved  or not to be smeared and marginalized as an anti-semite,
bigot,  nazi,  whatever.  If  a  Jew  happens  to be the one doing the
criticism  then  they  are promptly labelled a self-hating Jew. This
happens  not only even, but particularly if the criticism is deserved.
People  have  lost  their livlihoods by saying the wrong thing even if
the wrong thing happened to be true.

Yes.  I think that this Protocols mention, and having an explanation asked of
me, put me over the top.  Normally I would not make an accusation of a comment
being inherently anti-semitic (or even bother with the topic, or even think it),
but my understanding was (perhaps no longer) that invocation of the Protocols is
generally accepted to be just nonsense and that it should be met with disdain as
signalling inherently racist nonsense.  I think I failed to examine this
assumption.

[...]

Murdoch  this  was  not  something  personal to you but general to the
list.   I  thought  you  had  it right with your *no comment* comment.

Thanks, but outside of your one lone opinion, it apparently warrants a massive
negative response.

Things  like  this  have  to  be  faced  squarely and honestly and the
emotional baggage which normally accompanies topics such as this.

Well, thanks for your opinions.

And now my friends, sorry for the length (sort of). :o)

Happy Happy,

Gustl


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith

[murdoch]

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:05:55 -0500, you wrote:

Murdoch,

 What I mean is that generally you seem glad to have the topic raised,
 and that generally some of Luc's comments points seem to be
 agreed-with, by yourself and-or by Todd.

That's incorrect. What I did state and should have been inferred by anyone
with eyes not clouded with fear, hate or rage was that the ensuing personal
assaults were uncalled for.

Thank you for taking the time to make this correction.   I have just now re-read
through your posts on this topic and see that what you're specifically doing is
responding to the personal assaults, as you say.


As a result of such expression, those who were so wantonly careless in their
intent would choose to paint anyone who disagrees with their obnoxious
behavior as being for or against a person or any practice that was
mentioned.or alluded to.

That's ignorance of a rather high order (or disorder if you like), upon
which no one should have to expend the light of day.

Todd Swearingen




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Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith

[Keith Addison]

Arthur Sauerhaft wrote:

I must admit, I've never heard of Godwin's Law, and  I've lost by 
that standard, but when if not in this case is it appropriate to 
mention the Nazi's or Hitler?

I'll tell you that tomorrow, never fear, but right now it's late and 
I'm going to sleep.

Is is that these things should never be spoken of, or better yet forgotten?

:-)

Perhaps you'd care to tell me just what you've based that assumption 
on, as there's nothing at all here to support it.

Nazis, eh, Arthur? Ever met one? You think you guys have got some 
sort of franchise on all this stuff? I'll tell you a story. It's a 
true story.

I'm a journalist. I used to be a South African. I worked mostly for 
the black press there, not a very common pursuit during the dark days 
of the white racist apartheid era in the 60s and 70s. I was deeply 
involved in black issues and kept getting into trouble as a result. 
Eventually I got arrested and fled, left the country for a while to 
let things cool down. I went to London, got a job in Fleet Street and 
rented a studio flat belonging to an old couple in Hampstead. They 
both met me at the door when I arrived there, a small woman and a 
tall man. They stared at me, then looked quickly at each other, and 
asked me in. I seemed to make an instant hit - they couldn't do 
enough to make me feel welcome. There was something intensely warm 
and human about them, and we quickly became friends. They were really 
in love - they'd been together for 25 years, and doted on each other 
like a young couple. One evening we were sitting together in their 
kitchen drinking coffee, and they told me their story.

They were German Jews, and they'd met in a Nazi death camp during 
World War 2. They'd been interned with their whole families, and each 
had watched all their loved ones taken off to die, one by one, 
spouses, children, parents, until each was the only one left alive. 
That was when they'd found each other, and somehow survived the 
insane daily horror together to be liberated by the Allies in 1945. 
Eventually they'd made their way to London, and started life again.

The old woman told me: You are our fourth tenant. By pure chance, 
the other three were all young German men. Her smile twinkled at me: 
And you too are tall and fair - you look like a German. Our English 
friends were amazed that we could have Germans staying here - 'How 
can you bear it after what they did to you?' they asked. She was 
silent for a few moments.

But it was not these young men who did it. If we'd blamed them, if 
we'd turned them away, we would have learnt nothing from our 
suffering, it would have been wasted. So we welcomed them, and we did 
not regret it.

I couldn't say anything, something caught at my throat. I've seldom 
seen anyone so beautiful as the old woman looked to me just then.

Jews were nothing new to me, there's quite a big Jewish community in 
South Africa. I'd had them around all my life, neighbours, friends, 
schoolmates, workmates. When I started a rock band there were a 
couple of Jewish members, I spent a lot of time with the Jewish 
drummer and his family, also warm, human people, kind and generous. 
Virtually the whole Jewish community was dead set against the 
apartheid system and its evils. Maybe there were some who supported 
it but I don't think I ever met one. Many of them actively opposed 
it, many were jailed for it.

One didn't hear much about Israel then, nor Zionism, until 1967 and 
the Six-Day War, and then all my Jewish friends were wrestling with 
issues I didn't understand. It wasn't too long after that that I met 
some Israelis for the first time. They weren't supposed to have been 
there and I shouldn't have met them. But defence was my beat at the 
time, and they were military people, IDF and so on, involved in 
military support and collaboration with the apartheid government, in 
breach of the UN arms embargo against South Africa. This 
collaboration extended to the development of nuclear weapons, from 
about 1967 through the 70s and 80s. Israeli nuclear scientists 
visited South Africa in 1967 and later. South Africa provided Israel 
with 550 tons of uranium for its weapons program, Israel supplied 
South Africa with tritium and with technical information. In 1979 
they tested a bomb together in the South Atlantic. Israel was 
involved with the apartheid regime in other ways. There was 
intelligence collaboration, military training IIRC, also IIRC 
involvement in training and arming black militias during the civil 
war phase of the 80s. And so on. Good friends, Israel and white 
racist South Africa during its most oppressive stage.

So what has all this got to do with anything? This: John Vorster, 
South Africa's arch-racist Prime Minister from 1966 to 1978, was a 
Nazi. Let's get this straight: Vorster was not a Nazi sympathiser, he 
was a Nazi, by word and by deed, and there was nothing particularly 
unusual about it. In the mid-1970s at the height of the