Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials oflyingabout 9/11
And don't forget Building 7, not hit by anything except maybe some debris, totally collapsed too, in the same controlled fashion as the towers. Nope, it sure doesn't add up. I think we all want to believe it was Osama and his henchmen, but if it was, they had lots of assistance. They are so many pieces that don't add up in this. One big one is why, if the Pentagon was hit by a 757, was there only initially a 16 foot diameter hole? It looks like it was hit by a cruise missle.Everyone knew that the place the impact occurred was lighly populated, and far from where the top brass congregate. If the terrorists wanted to do real harm why not go for the section where the generals and admirals hang out? Why was the FBI out gathering up all the film from the cameras so quickly. This film, if it still exists, hasn't ever been released. The plane over Pennsylvania was reported by some observers on the ground to have exploded in mid-air. Pieces were found 8 miles from the main ground impact area.If any piece of the 9/11 puzzle is found to be a lie, then the cover story of the Bushites falls completely apart. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: lres1 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials oflyingabout 9/11 Just a note, not from an expert. Steel cutting torches operate at a temperature that burns the steeland turns the wasteinto slag.A lot of small brass and alloy foundries that use small furnacesuse Diesel or Kerosene as the source of heat. The amount of heat to destroy the steel and alloy in the towers was only limited by the amount of oxygen available. At the height of the towers the natural movement of wind would have been like a blow torch on all the metals given enough fuel to start with. Several tons of Kerosene + wind + alloys + other combustibles would make the placing of explosives only a marginally required secondary insurance that the towers would fall. There was enough in the planes and the buildings construction materials/furnishings and the fuel tanksto achieve more than what a giant cutting torch would achieve. Think of a Plumbers kerosene blow lamp, now multiply it by the amount of wind and fuel available plus the burning materials mentioned above. Take a look at a vehicle that has burnt. you will notice that the suspension has collapsed due to the annealing of the springs or torsion bars etc. It does not take a real great amount of heat to change the characteristics of metals and alloys. Take away the heating from combustibles from the plane and building. Just the fuel and the heat from the fuel. How much stress in expansion over a few floors in a building of such height can it take? That is a building of such height expands slowly during the day and heat, shrinks during the cool. Given the height of the building this over a 24 hr period would be a significant change in height. If a small amount of boiling water is put into a glass the expansion is not uniform the glass will break. Uniform expansion in structures is an important part in considering conductivity of heat and orientation. To have had four or five floors expand beyond their limit and incongruously from the rest of the structure would again render the structure unsafe. This without burning anything just expanding out four or five floors rapidly and then contracting them all but as fast. The "bounce" effectin the topmost floors must have been quite horrific as they would have risen several inches and then dropped the same in a very short time frame. This "bounce" alone would nearly be enough to collapse a structure of such size in upon itself with no burning of combustibles from the construction or furnishings or even the alloys in the plane. Compare it to using the topmost floors as an enormoushammer that hammered the lower floors due the effect of the "bounce". Sorry this got longer than I thought. Doug - Original Message - From: MARIA BURGER To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials of lyingabout 9/11 I'm certainly no "expert" either, but I would presume that charges placed in the middle of the building would initiate structural collapse from the middle. Nothing says you have to put them at the bottom! Cheers! Chris - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials of lying about 9/11 Howdy Tom, I'm no expert but one feature of the towers was rather large unbaffled
Re: [Biofuel] Free Earth-Policy Institute newsletter
Hi Mike LOL! Sorry, not laughing at your expense, but it tickled me. Journey to Forever and the Biofuel list are closely associated but not the same. The Journey to Forever website is about much more than just biodiesel and biofuels, that's just a part of it, and the website is just a part of the project, lots about which isn't yet on the website. I spend most of my time working on the project itself, I guess that's why it tickled me. If only that's all it was! (Naah, not really.) Anyway, the JtF website and the Biofuel list are not directly linked, you can't search the one from the other. Searching the JtF website for www.earthpolicy.org or earth-policy won't find anything, there's nothing at our website about it. The Biofuel list has two archives. There's one at the list's own website, here: http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/ The Biofuel Archives It comes with the mailing list software.Check it out, it's useful, but it's not searchable. When we moved the list to its current host we had a lot of trouble finding an archiving service that could import a large existing archives so it could be searched. That's the Mail Archive, they're great, they were really a big help. That archives is not at the list's website or at the JtF website, it's here: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ biofuel I gave you this link: http://snipurl.com/ody7 That's an alias, the real url is this one, at the Mail Archive site: http://www.mail-archive.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?method=andformat=shortc onfig=biofuel_sustainablelists_orgrestrict=exclude=words=www.earthp olicy.org Much too long! A lot of emailers break these long links in transmission so it doesn't work. You can put it back together again though. Less trouble with very long urls is to use the SnipURL service instead, here: http://snipurl.com/ SnipURL - Snippetty snip snip with your long URLs! Paste in the long link and it'll give you a short alias url like the one I gave you. It's quick, and they're permanent so it won't result in dead links unless the original long link dies. Hope this helps. I'm glad it wasn't a snake! Best Keith Keith, I had searched for just earth policy and earth-policy, and came up with zero hits the first time. I figured if those did not turn up anything in the data base then narrower terms like www.earthpolicy.org would not turn up anything either so I stopped the search. Now I am really puzzled! I just went and re searched those same terms and got lots of hits. Only difference is that I searched from a different starting page this time. Both pages had a search tool but this time I used the page at the link you gave me below: http://snipurl.com/ody7 As I recall I used: http://www.journeytoforever.org/ for the original search I did and it still does not show any hits for earth policy. Therefore, I guess these two are not directly connected, do not entirely overlap, or use a different search engine??? So where is the best place or page to search from? Never mind, I Just figured it out, it is at the bottom of the newsgroup emails (the part I never read anymore because it never changes). If it was snake it would have bitten me!: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ A thousand apologies. Mike P.S. I left the dribble, confusion, journey listed above for anyone else who missed this little item like I did for so long. Maybe it will help some others avoid my error. Thanks, Mike Keith Addison wrote: Hello Mike Thanks. I know them well, Lester Brown's group. Quite a lot of material from them has been posted here before. http://snipurl.com/ody7 Search results for 'www.earthpolicy.org' Here's a recent one, posted by Chip on 7 March. Check the rest of the discussion at the thread links at the end of the page, interesting. http://snipurl.com/ody5 [Biofuel] Interesting Read What did I say about that... It's just that he [Lester Brown] doesn't get it on a few counts. He doesn't seem to see that there are alternatives. He's been doing good work for a long time, though I always felt his thinking was a bit corporate - not pro-corporate, just that he sees things in the same mould, as if there's nothing intrinsically wrong with the system, it just needs a bit of tinkering. I've never been impressed with his views on energy. Read that whole thread if you want to know why I said that (I was defending him). Thanks again. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process
I think he was talking about a dip tank like what is used to clean industrial parts en masse. it relies on complementary ultrasonic frequencies to basically heat and rattle the crud out of things my friend uses them at the printing shop where he works. He does? And it works?? Why doesn't someone sell them to the mainstream press? Or d'you think you'd have to nuke the journalists instead? Best Keith - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process Joe. What are you talking about when it comes to ultrasonics? Jim Joe Street wrote: Hey Bob; You ever considered using ultrasonics to speed up the reaction? You still have to deal with the settling time but I hear the US can make the reaction happen in minutes instead of hours. I'm trying to get my hands on a cell disrupter to put inline on my recirculation tube to test this but haven't had any luck yet. Something to ponder and if any of the chem whiz's out there in e-land care to comment I'm all eyes. Joe Bob Carr wrote: Hi all, Time to report on my acid /base progress, and then ask for advice from more experienced list members. I have made several batches of very good Bd from all manner of feedstocks, by following Aleks Kac's foolproof process to the letter. But being the impetuous impatient man that I am, I find the process takes far too long. I want to start experimenting to try and speed up the process, but there is one piece of information that still eludes me. How can you tell if the acid phase is complete? I can't move forward unless I can verify my results. Has anyone on the list devised a test to show that the acid phase is complete? Regards Bob ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Seeking experience to produce biodiesel from Castor
Anyone care to share any experiences with castor oil based biodiesel brewing using small-scale plants? I am told that castor oil dissolves in alcohols and external heating is eliminated from the process. I'm also hearing conjectures that castor based biodiesel will not freeze even below -20 deg C. Any pointers to more specific info along these lines? I'll get to my own brewing/learning experiments soon (and I'll start with proven processes and materials described on J2FE), but we could do with as much existing wisdom as we can get our hands on, especially because what we want to get into out here is not only for our personal consumption. Many thanks in advance for any help. Chandan Hi Chandan I can't share any experience of using castor oil but I can offer some information which might help. It's been discussed a few times before, I think other list members may have direct experience of it. List archives: http://snipurl.com/oeit Search results for 'castor' The one disadvantage mentioned, that I haven't seen an answer to, was that crushing the seeds creates a seriously bad odour, enough to put people off. Also the cake is poinsonous, but James Duke says: Although it is highly toxic due to the ricin, a method of detoxicating the meal has now been found, so that it can safely be fed to livestock. http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Ricinus_communis.html Ricinus communis The toxic principle is water-soluble so is not found in the oil. It's also said to be a drying oil, the equal of tung oil, yet it has a much lower Iodine Value, though Iodine Value is quite a crude indicator of whether oils will polymerise or not and castor oil seems to be an exception. On the other hand it has a longstanding reputation of being an excellent motor oil. This is an informative website about castor oil, and biodiesel generally: http://www.castoroil.in/uses/fuel/castor_oil_fuel.html Castor Oil as Biofuel Biodiesel - Info, WWW Resources on Castoroil as Bio-fuel, Bio-diesel Others: http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/afcm/castor.html Castorbeans http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/arr_html?Ricinus+communis Ricinus communis http://snipurl.com/oeiu The Hindu Business Line : Gujarat Oleo Chem bags Rs 25-cr biodiesel order from IOC Gujarat Oleo Chem bags Rs 25-cr biodiesel order from IOC Mumbai , Aug 3 http://www.tierramerica.net/2003/0526/ianalisis.shtml Energy in a Castor Bean The castor-oil plant, ricinus communis, is the best source for creating biodiesel, say Brazilian experts. http://www.allbusiness.com/periodicals/article/278737-1.html First electricity from castor oil: Patrick Knight reports on how the biodiesel industry in Brazil is taking off. From Oils Fats International: Nov, 2004 issue Hope this helps. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process
A cell disrupter will be fine for small quantities of material but not large ones. You can get ultrasonic parts cleaners but I wouldn't like to guess at the price of them!! At 18:38 30/03/2006 +0900, you wrote: I think he was talking about a dip tank like what is used to clean industrial parts en masse. it relies on complementary ultrasonic frequencies to basically heat and rattle the crud out of things my friend uses them at the printing shop where he works. He does? And it works?? Why doesn't someone sell them to the mainstream press? Or d'you think you'd have to nuke the journalists instead? Best Keith - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process Joe. What are you talking about when it comes to ultrasonics? Jim Joe Street wrote: Hey Bob; You ever considered using ultrasonics to speed up the reaction? You still have to deal with the settling time but I hear the US can make the reaction happen in minutes instead of hours. I'm trying to get my hands on a cell disrupter to put inline on my recirculation tube to test this but haven't had any luck yet. Something to ponder and if any of the chem whiz's out there in e-land care to comment I'm all eyes. Joe Bob Carr wrote: Hi all, Time to report on my acid /base progress, and then ask for advice from more experienced list members. I have made several batches of very good Bd from all manner of feedstocks, by following Aleks Kac's foolproof process to the letter. But being the impetuous impatient man that I am, I find the process takes far too long. I want to start experimenting to try and speed up the process, but there is one piece of information that still eludes me. How can you tell if the acid phase is complete? I can't move forward unless I can verify my results. Has anyone on the list devised a test to show that the acid phase is complete? Regards Bob ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Chris Fletcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Washing
Charles, I've been separating the glycerin mix prior to washing. After much tweaking I am finally making BD that washes easily and passes quality tests. I have plans for the glycerin mix. Now that the weather is warming up I plan to use phosphoric acid to split the mix into Fatty Acids, Crude Glycerin, and Potassium Phosphate. I've been burning a BD30 blend to heat my house this past winter. Over the past week I've bumped it up and yesterday got BD100 to keep burning in my furnace. (Still have my fingers crossed). I hope to blend the fatty acids recovered into the heating fuel for next year. Heat my house on a BD100/fatty acid blend. Just completed the methanol recovery unit. Hope to get some methanol back from the crude glycerin. Am in the early stages of planning ethanol distillation . have the application for a permit, looking at plans for the still, etc. I'll look at adding glycerin to the mash in the fermenter ethanol. If this goes kaput, I have a large garden and use tons of compost. Neutralizing the glycerin w. ammonia should give me glycerin w. potassium and ammonium phosphate . a welcome addition to a hot compost pile. My point is that I see value in the glycerin coproduct. I may be wrong, but it would seem to lose its value if it was washed out before separation. It reminds me of the notion of growing a crop to make BD (or ethanol) and not utilizing the seedcake (or mash) produced by the process for animal feed. Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 4:10 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Washing Hi all I've been doing a bit of research as I begin to up-scale my processing and I see that the University of Idaho published a report on biodiesel production where they wash the combined glycerol/ methyl ester mixture before separation, saying that this improves the effectiveness of further washing. They are talking about the ethanol trans-esterification method, but I was wondering whether anyone had tried this with the methanol method and could tell me how effective it is. Best Regards Charles List ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WHAT ARE WE DOING TO OUR OWN IN OUR WARS?
Evergreen Solutions wrote: I declare shenanigans. Seconded, THere are other problems with the post also. Actually, there are a lot of problems with it. Althought I agree with the overall thesis/sentiment of the post, If one wants to use numbers, better make sure those numbers are good. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Farmworkers Sue U.S. EPA
D. Mindock wrote: There's no doubt that conditions for farmworkers have not improved under the Bush regime. Notice that the organophosphate pesticides, developed by the Nazis as a weapon of war, are being used everywhere. Organophosphates have been around since the middle 1800s. Glaucoma was being treated with an organophospate physostigmine before to turn of the century, and many organophosphate cholinesterase inhibitors have been around well before the Nazis. I call shenanigans. The problems with organophosphates are HUGE. This is all a real mess. Yes, the Nazi's did use these for weapons. However, they were developed well before the nazi movement, for very different reasons. For reasons like the aforementioned physostigmine, which was helpful in treating glaucoma then, like it is now, a century and a half later. It also, like many other organophosphates, is able to cross the blood/brain barrier, which is what makes these chemicals such a problem, and also, makes them pretty damned handy for a lot of things. And yes, it also makes it ideal for nerve agent weapons. Note: some common organophosphates (OPs) = (diazinon, chlorpyrifos, dichlorvos, malathion, and azamethiphos) (Phosmet is the one form used in England which set off the original cases of Mad Cow Disease.) In short, Yeah, I personally feel that short of an outright ban, access to OP pesticides needs to come under some pretty strict controls. [Arguments concerning the relative merits of pesticides aside.] However, whenever you pick up a really broad brush, and paint NAZI across something, please be certain the label is appropriate. Language that demonizes people like a lot of the agricultural scientists that I've known and worked with my short stay in this life, might serve only to narrow your impact well inside what might have been a broader intended audience. Peace, D. Mindock ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process
You can buy fairly small ones - they are advertised (or used to be) to clean jewelry. Keith Addison wrote: I think he was talking about a dip tank like what is used to clean industrial parts en masse. it relies on complementary ultrasonic frequencies to basically heat and rattle the crud out of things my friend uses them at the printing shop where he works. He does? And it works?? Why doesn't someone sell them to the mainstream press? Or d'you think you'd have to nuke the journalists instead? Best Keith - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process Joe. What are you talking about when it comes to ultrasonics? Jim Joe Street wrote: Hey Bob; You ever considered using ultrasonics to speed up the reaction? You still have to deal with the settling time but I hear the US can make the reaction happen in minutes instead of hours. I'm trying to get my hands on a cell disrupter to put inline on my recirculation tube to test this but haven't had any luck yet. Something to ponder and if any of the chem whiz's out there in e-land care to comment I'm all eyes. Joe Bob Carr wrote: Hi all, Time to report on my acid /base progress, and then ask for advice from more experienced list members. I have made several batches of very good Bd from all manner of feedstocks, by following Aleks Kac's foolproof process to the letter. But being the impetuous impatient man that I am, I find the process takes far too long. I want to start experimenting to try and speed up the process, but there is one piece of information that still eludes me. How can you tell if the acid phase is complete? I can't move forward unless I can verify my results. Has anyone on the list devised a test to show that the acid phase is complete? Regards Bob ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Washing
On Mar 30, 2006, at 1:10 AM, Charles List wrote:I've been doing a bit of research as I begin to up-scale my processing and I see that the University of Idaho published areport on biodiesel production where they wash the combinedglycerol/ methyl ester mixture before separation, saying that thisimproves the effectiveness of further washing. They are talkingabout the ethanol transesterification method, but I was wonderingwhether anyone had tried this with the methanol method andcould tell me how effective it is.Very effective -- I use it almost every batch, methanol or ethanol.The so-called "glycerine wash" step, which must be done gently,allows a lot of the soaps and alkali to be taken into the aqueous(glycerine) phase prior to separating the biodiesel off the top.The reason to do this is that the presence of glycerine duringthe first wash greatly inhibits the formation of emulsions, allowingyour subsequent water-only washes to proceed much morequickly. I use hot water, approx. 1.5l for every 10l of oil -- i.e.,a 10l batch of oil which would normally give a 1l glycerine layernow gives 2.5l of mixed glycerine-water.The only disadvantage is for people who want to recover excessalcohol from the glycerine layer, since you need to use a fraction-ating column to separate out the water you added. I believe mosthomebrewers are still not recovering excess alcohol, so I reallydon't know why more people don't use this step. I preach its virtuesconstantly :-)-K___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Seeking experience to produce biodiesel from Castor
On Mar 29, 2006, at 8:55 PM, Chandan Haldar wrote: Anyone care to share any experiences with castor oil based biodiesel brewing using small-scale plants? I am told that castor oil dissolves in alcohols and external heating is eliminated from the process. That's one oil I've never tried, but if it's true that it's soluble in the alcohol, the ester is probably also, which would make it difficult to get separation of a glycerine phase. Try it and let us know! -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process
To answer the question what am I talking about, I heard about it on another biodiesel list and I'm not sure about the exact setup. I expect it is a way of adding energy into the process. I am interested in this as I was in the so called " electrically catalized" alternative process which I as yet have not been able to reproduce. The idea here is that energy added can help speed up a reaction and I think ( chemists blast me if I'm wrong) can tip the balance in favor of one direction in equilibrium type reactions. Actually heating the oil is a form of this type of energy input and we do this already. I have been curious about other ways of coupling energy into the system such as UV radiation, RF radiation and now I hear about ultrasonics. Typically the transducers comercially available are in the 40 Khz frequency range. The little jewelery cleaners are low power and I wouldn't waste my time although they are good for assisting in nano particle production and electro-colloid generation. An industrial power level US generator might be 300-500 watts and often is capable of frequency swept operation. I don't think the frequency is so important from a quantum perspective as it would be in the case of higher frequency stimulation like RF, microwave, or UV radiation where energy absorbtion depends on the bandgap of the material being radiated, but in the case of ultrasonics it is more due to mechanical effects. Microcavitation creates small scale shockwaves which have surprisingly high energy densities though so it is a powerful technique. The idea I am toying with is to put a cell disrupter in the recirculation line and pass the reaction through a confined but high energy density zone while the reaction proceeds. So yes it does only affect a small volume but since it is in the recirculation line I can move the entire volume of the fluid through 'the 'zone' First I have to source a surplus disrupter. If only I had some romulan friends.sigh (lol no that comment does not indicate this whole thing is an april fools joke) Joe Mike Weaver wrote: You can buy fairly small ones - they are advertised (or used to be) to clean jewelry. Keith Addison wrote: I think he was talking about a "dip tank" like what is used to clean industrial parts en masse. it relies on complementary ultrasonic frequencies to basically heat and rattle the crud out of things my friend uses them at the printing shop where he works. He does? And it works?? Why doesn't someone sell them to the mainstream press? Or d'you think you'd have to nuke the journalists instead? Best Keith - Original Message - From: "JJJN" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process Joe. What are you talking about when it comes to ultrasonics? Jim Joe Street wrote: Hey Bob; You ever considered using ultrasonics to speed up the reaction? You still have to deal with the settling time but I hear the US can make the reaction happen in minutes instead of hours. I'm trying to get my hands on a cell disrupter to put inline on my recirculation tube to test this but haven't had any luck yet. Something to ponder and if any of the chem whiz's out there in e-land care to comment I'm all eyes. Joe Bob Carr wrote: Hi all, Time to report on my acid /base progress, and then ask for advice from more experienced list members. I have made several batches of very good Bd from all manner of feedstocks, by following Aleks Kac's foolproof process to the letter. But being the impetuous impatient man that I am, I find the process takes far too long. I want to start experimenting to try and speed up the process, but there is one piece of information that still eludes me. How can you tell if the acid phase is complete? I can't move forward unless I can verify my results. Has anyone on the list devised a test to show that the acid phase is complete? Regards Bob ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process
Hello Jason Katie. I checked Cole-Parmer's book 2003/2004 for ultrasonic cleaners, the following items might give you some idea of the prices. A-08848-10 Ultrasonic cleaner w/timer for 15 oz. Priced US $ 147 A-08859-02 Ultrasonic cleaner w/Temp contr. adjust. waveform, 2 3/4 gall Priced US $ 1250 A-08847-00 Ultrasonic cleaner w/Temp contr. heavy-duty, 10 gall Priced US $ 4030 New prices and model you may find at: www.coleparmer.com These are great for pipetes cleaning or jewells as well. Advice, if you are going to use one of these put them inside some noise enclosure, they are loud devices that you might not hear due to the high frecuencies. Regards. Juan -Mensaje original- From: Jason Katie [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 30, 2006 2:22 For:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject:Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process I think he was talking about a dip tank like what is used to clean industrial parts en masse. it relies on complementary ultrasonic frequencies to basically heat and rattle the crud out of things my friend uses them at the printing shop where he works. - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process Joe. What are you talking about when it comes to ultrasonics? Jim Joe Street wrote: Hey Bob; You ever considered using ultrasonics to speed up the reaction? You still have to deal with the settling time but I hear the US can make the reaction happen in minutes instead of hours. I'm trying to get my hands on a cell disrupter to put inline on my recirculation tube to test this but haven't had any luck yet. Something to ponder and if any of the chem whiz's out there in e-land care to comment I'm all eyes. Joe Bob Carr wrote: Hi all, Time to report on my acid /base progress, and then ask for advice from more experienced list members. I have made several batches of very good Bd from all manner of feedstocks, by following Aleks Kac's foolproof process to the letter. But being the impetuous impatient man that I am, I find the process takes far too long. I want to start experimenting to try and speed up the process, but there is one piece of information that still eludes me. How can you tell if the acid phase is complete? I can't move forward unless I can verify my results. Has anyone on the list devised a test to show that the acid phase is complete? Regards Bob ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Washing
Hi Tom Charles, I've been separating the glycerin mix prior to washing. After much tweaking I am finally making BD that washes easily and passes quality tests. I have plans for the glycerin mix. Now that the weather is warming up I plan to use phosphoric acid to split the mix into Fatty Acids, Crude Glycerin, and Potassium Phosphate. I've been burning a BD30 blend to heat my house this past winter. Over the past week I've bumped it up and yesterday got BD100 to keep burning in my furnace. (Still have my fingers crossed). I hope to blend the fatty acids recovered into the heating fuel for next year. Heat my house on a BD100/fatty acid blend. Just completed the methanol recovery unit. Hope to get some methanol back from the crude glycerin. Am in the early stages of planning ethanol distillation . have the application for a permit, looking at plans for the still, etc. I'll look at adding glycerin to the mash in the fermenter ethanol. If this goes kaput, I have a large garden and use tons of compost. Neutralizing the glycerin w. ammonia should give me glycerin w. potassium and ammonium phosphate . a welcome addition to a hot compost pile. My point is that I see value in the glycerin coproduct. I may be wrong, but it would seem to lose its value if it was washed out before separation. I agree. As Ken said it makes methanol recovery more difficult, it might also make FFA separation more difficult, and it wouldn't burn very well either. I don't see the need if you're making good fuel that washes easily anyway. For us washing is easy and our fuel tests within the standard specs so I can't see any advantage in using the glycerine wash, only disadvantages. But, to each his own. Our situation has quite a lot in common with yours and we view the by-product in much the same way. Also interested in using it as part feedstock for a methane digester. Best Keith It reminds me of the notion of growing a crop to make BD (or ethanol) and not utilizing the seedcake (or mash) produced by the process for animal feed. Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 4:10 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Washing Hi all I've been doing a bit of research as I begin to up-scale my processing and I see that the University of Idaho published a report on biodiesel production where they wash the combined glycerol/ methyl ester mixture before separation, saying that this improves the effectiveness of further washing. They are talking about the ethanol trans-esterification method, but I was wondering whether anyone had tried this with the methanol method and could tell me how effective it is. Best Regards Charles List ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process
Well I found THIS which gives a little more info about frequency and power density. It looks like this is done in a tank without agitation and settling happens with higher frequency u-sonics. Hmmm. Joe Joe Street wrote: To answer the question what am I talking about, I heard about it on another biodiesel list and I'm not sure about the exact setup. I expect it is a way of adding energy into the process. I am interested in this as I was in the so called " electrically catalized" alternative process which I as yet have not been able to reproduce. The idea here is that energy added can help speed up a reaction and I think ( chemists blast me if I'm wrong) can tip the balance in favor of one direction in equilibrium type reactions. Actually heating the oil is a form of this type of energy input and we do this already. I have been curious about other ways of coupling energy into the system such as UV radiation, RF radiation and now I hear about ultrasonics. Typically the transducers comercially available are in the 40 Khz frequency range. The little jewelery cleaners are low power and I wouldn't waste my time although they are good for assisting in nano particle production and electro-colloid generation. An industrial power level US generator might be 300-500 watts and often is capable of frequency swept operation. I don't think the frequency is so important from a quantum perspective as it would be in the case of higher frequency stimulation like RF, microwave, or UV radiation where energy absorbtion depends on the bandgap of the material being radiated, but in the case of ultrasonics it is more due to mechanical effects. Microcavitation creates small scale shockwaves which have surprisingly high energy densities though so it is a powerful technique. The idea I am toying with is to put a cell disrupter in the recirculation line and pass the reaction through a confined but high energy density zone while the reaction proceeds. So yes it does only affect a small volume but since it is in the recirculation line I can move the entire volume of the fluid through 'the 'zone' First I have to source a surplus disrupter. If only I had some romulan friends.sigh (lol no that comment does not indicate this whole thing is an april fools joke) Joe Mike Weaver wrote: You can buy fairly small ones - they are advertised (or used to be) to clean jewelry. Keith Addison wrote: I think he was talking about a "dip tank" like what is used to clean industrial parts en masse. it relies on complementary ultrasonic frequencies to basically heat and rattle the crud out of things my friend uses them at the printing shop where he works. He does? And it works?? Why doesn't someone sell them to the mainstream press? Or d'you think you'd have to nuke the journalists instead? Best Keith - Original Message - From: "JJJN" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process Joe. What are you talking about when it comes to ultrasonics? Jim Joe Street wrote: Hey Bob; You ever considered using ultrasonics to speed up the reaction? You still have to deal with the settling time but I hear the US can make the reaction happen in minutes instead of hours. I'm trying to get my hands on a cell disrupter to put inline on my recirculation tube to test this but haven't had any luck yet. Something to ponder and if any of the chem whiz's out there in e-land care to comment I'm all eyes. Joe Bob Carr wrote: Hi all, Time to report on my acid /base progress, and then ask for advice from more experienced list members. I have made several batches of very good Bd from all manner of feedstocks, by following Aleks Kac's foolproof process to the letter. But being the impetuous impatient man that I am, I find the process takes far too long. I want to start experimenting to try and speed up the process, but there is one piece of information that still eludes me. How can you tell if the acid phase is complete? I can't move forward unless I can verify my results. Has anyone on the list devised a test to show that the acid phase is complete? Regards Bob ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process
its not a newspaper press though. it is a cryovac container factory, and they print their own materials. they use it for the dies and machine parts. soy ink may be the best stuff in the world, but it don't come off for nothin'. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 3:38 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process I think he was talking about a dip tank like what is used to clean industrial parts en masse. it relies on complementary ultrasonic frequencies to basically heat and rattle the crud out of things my friend uses them at the printing shop where he works. He does? And it works?? Why doesn't someone sell them to the mainstream press? Or d'you think you'd have to nuke the journalists instead? Best Keith - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process Joe. What are you talking about when it comes to ultrasonics? Jim Joe Street wrote: Hey Bob; You ever considered using ultrasonics to speed up the reaction? You still have to deal with the settling time but I hear the US can make the reaction happen in minutes instead of hours. I'm trying to get my hands on a cell disrupter to put inline on my recirculation tube to test this but haven't had any luck yet. Something to ponder and if any of the chem whiz's out there in e-land care to comment I'm all eyes. Joe Bob Carr wrote: Hi all, Time to report on my acid /base progress, and then ask for advice from more experienced list members. I have made several batches of very good Bd from all manner of feedstocks, by following Aleks Kac's foolproof process to the letter. But being the impetuous impatient man that I am, I find the process takes far too long. I want to start experimenting to try and speed up the process, but there is one piece of information that still eludes me. How can you tell if the acid phase is complete? I can't move forward unless I can verify my results. Has anyone on the list devised a test to show that the acid phase is complete? Regards Bob ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/296 - Release Date: 3/29/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process
Shnazzy stuff, but 28K seems a little close to the human range of hearingto be safe doesnt it? Granted it appears to be dramatically faster and cleaner because a lot of needed energy comes from the U-sonics, but what if the frequency was higher? - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process Well I found THIS which gives a little more info about frequency and power density. It looks like this is done in a tank without agitation and settling happens with higher frequency u-sonics. Hmmm.JoeJoe Street wrote: To answer the question what am I talking about, I heard about it on another biodiesel list and I'm not sure about the exact setup. I expect it is a way of adding energy into the process. I am interested in this as I was in the so called " electrically catalized" alternative process which I as yet have not been able to reproduce. The idea here is that energy added can help speed up a reaction and I think ( chemists blast me if I'm wrong) can tip the balance in favor of one direction in equilibrium type reactions. Actually heating the oil is a form of this type of energy input and we do this already. I have been curious about other ways of coupling energy into the system such as UV radiation, RF radiation and now I hear about ultrasonics. Typically the transducers comercially available are in the 40 Khz frequency range. The little jewelery cleaners are low power and I wouldn't waste my time although they are good for assisting in nano particle production and electro-colloid generation. An industrial power level US generator might be 300-500 watts and often is capable of frequency swept operation. I don't think the frequency is so important from a quantum perspective as it would be in the case of higher frequency stimulation like RF, microwave, or UV radiation where energy absorbtion depends on the bandgap of the material being radiated, but in the case of ultrasonics it is more due to mechanical effects. Microcavitation creates small scale shockwaves which have surprisingly high energy densities though so it is a powerful technique. The idea I am toying with is to put a cell disrupter in the recirculation line and pass the reaction through a confined but high energy density zone while the reaction proceeds. So yes it does only affect a small volume but since it is in the recirculation line I can move the entire volume of the fluid through 'the 'zone' First I have to source a surplus disrupter. If only I had some romulan friends.sigh(lol no that comment does not indicate this whole thing is an april fools joke)JoeMike Weaver wrote: You can buy fairly small ones - they are advertised (or used to be) to clean jewelry. Keith Addison wrote: I think he was talking about a "dip tank" like what is used to clean industrial parts en masse. it relies on complementary ultrasonic frequencies to basically heat and rattle the crud out of things my friend uses them at the printing shop where he works. He does? And it works?? Why doesn't someone sell them to the mainstream press? Or d'you think you'd have to nuke the journalists instead? Best Keith - Original Message - From: "JJJN" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process Joe. What are you talking about when it comes to ultrasonics? Jim Joe Street wrote: Hey Bob; You ever considered using ultrasonics to speed up the reaction? You still have to deal with the settling time but I hear the US can make the reaction happen in minutes instead of hours. I'm trying to get my hands on a cell disrupter to put inline on my recirculation tube to test this but haven't had any luck yet. Something to ponder and if any of the chem whiz's out there in e-land care to comment I'm all eyes. Joe Bob Carr wrote: Hi all, Time to report on my acid /base progress, and then ask for advice from more experienced list members. I have made several batches of very good Bd from all manner of feedstocks, by following Aleks Kac's foolproof process to the letter. But being the impetuous impatient man that I am, I find the process takes far too long. I want to start experimenting to try and speed up the process, but there is one piece of information that still eludes me. How can you tell if the acid phase is complete? I can't move forward unless I can verify my results. Has anyone on the list devised a test to show that the acid phase is complete? Regards Bob
Re: [Biofuel] Citgo Hugo Chavez
Funny that they implicitly assume that by including Cindy Sheehan, it will strengthen their case -- as if she is bad too. Such stupidity.But I found out that there is a group protesting at military funerals, claiming that IEDs are God's way of punishing America for tolerating homesexuality. Odd that God shows his displeasure by killing hetersexuals, since we don't allow gays in the military... On 3/29/06, D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everytime we eat at Hodak's in St Louis, I fill up at the Citgo that is a few blocks east of Hodak's on our way back to Illinois. Hugo Chavez is running a true democratic country but the Bushites lust after all his oil and are demonizing him. Even Sen. Barak Obama, to my surprise,seems to be falling for the propaganda coming out of the WH. Citgo is 100% owned by Venezuela.The CIA has tried to have Chavez, a democratically elected president and very popular with his people since he helps the poor, killed. That failed so they tried to get the people to turn against him. That backfired too. Yeah, Chavez is POed at our gov in the WH, butwho canblame him? We are meddling, big time, in his country's affairs. The fact that Cindy likes him should tell us a lot. Hugo is right, the current US gov is imperialistic Bush is a terrorist.Bush is the number one mostdisliked person on the planet. I believea poll in Europe showed that 70% thought Bush was the #1 most dangerous person, moreso than Osama. Thecrap below is circulating on the web. Gee, I wonder who created it? Notice that Hugo is quoted as saying that we must bury imperialism, not the USA. But then the leaflet says that Hugo says we must bury the USA. I think the leaflet's author seems to agree that the USA is indeed imperialistic. I think imperialism must go too, so am I a terrorist? If anyone says imperialism must go, is he/she a terrorist? I think not. It is time forthe truth todrown out all thechaotic noisecoming out of our WH. Notice too that Cindy is implicated by association with Hugo. We all know how much Bush is afraid of Cindy. She is armed with the truth. Bush is armed with BS. It seems like little Venezuela is a really big threat. So dangerous that maybe they need pre-emptive military intervention. Of course if Hugo does start insisting on euros for his country's oil, the almighty dollar could fall in value. Opinions vary on this. But maybea fall in the dollar could quell the imperialistic designs of our gov? Hopefully, it would. Or it couldignite a pre-emptive war to get to all that oil.Bush Cheney probably see Venezuela as low hanging fruit and need onlythe weakest excuse to grab it. Peace, D. Mindock Cindy Sheehan ChavezVenezuela Dictator Vows To Bring Down U.S. Government Venezuela government is sole owner of Citgo gasoline company Venezuela Dictator Hugo Chavez has vowed to bring down the U.S. Government. Chavez, president of Venezuela, told a TV audience: Enough of imperialist aggression;We must tell the world: down with the U.S. Empire. We have to bury imperialism this century. The guest on his television program, beamed across Venezuela, was Cindy Sheehan, the antiwar activist. Chavez recently had as his guest Harry Belafonte, who called President Bush the greatest terrorist in the world. Chavez is pushing a socialist revolution and has a close alliance with Cuban Dictator Fidel Castro. Regardless of your feelings about the war in Iraq, the issue here is that we have a socialist dictator vowing to bring down the government of the U.S. And he is using our money to achieve his goal! The Venezuela government, run by dictator Chavez, sole owner of Citgo gas co. Sale! s of products at Citgo stations send money back to Chavez to help him in his vow to bring down our government. Take Action Please decide that you will not be shopping at a Citgo station. Why should U.S. Citizens who love freedom be financing a dictator who has vowed to take Down our government? Very
Re: [Biofuel] Citgo Hugo Chavez
On 3/30/06, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Funny that they implicitly assume that by including Cindy Sheehan, it will strengthen their case -- as if she is bad too. Such stupidity.But I found out that there is a group protesting at military funerals, claiming that IEDs are God's way of punishing America for tolerating homesexuality. Odd that God shows his displeasure by killing hetersexuals, since we don't allow gays in the military... This is the same group I posted about a couple weeks ago. They've cancelled their trip to our town. Their website is www.godhatesfags.com , and we had a whole counterprotest planned... In other news, there is a motorcycle group that follows them, called the freedom riders who basically sit and blast their pipes over the voices of the church.The church makes its money by suing towns/schools which block them from protesting. Classy bunch. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] source for WVO
Just about all the commercial biodiesel sold in the US is made from soybean oil, so it can't be that bad -- though canola is definitely better. I've been running soybean biodiesel in my truck for almost a year. I did get one batch of canola biodiesel, which I could tell ran a little better, and had a lower pour point, but even soybean oil stuff runs better than diesel -- even with a cetane booster, it starts harder and makes more smoke than even B20 (I was on a road trip this weekend and had to fill up with diesel twice :( On 3/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I have just successfully produced a full liter of quality oil from virgin oil, I am today going to get some WVO and take the next step. So my thoughts about the donut shop was speculation. I know that the local dunkin donuts uses vegetable oil but I have not asked about getting their waste oil or if they discard their oil. I may soon lose all respect for dunkin donuts. I too may be knocking on the doors of Asian restaurants in this case. However, isn't soybean oil likely to produce polymers in your cylinders after time? I need to read more on that chapter on the JTF website but I thought I remember that soybean oil was not so great. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Recent PBS report Persons of Interest TALON program - US AirForce
Greetings all, I recently watched the PBS broadcast, interview whose transcript is below. It is about our own government (USA) breaking the law and spying on its own citizens, in general. It speaks for itself...It also says a lot, in my opinion as to why so few in the USA spoke out against the war in Iraq, until recently. They were afraid to labeled as traitors, including the democrats in congress. I think and hope that tide has changed here as I am seeing more and more of this sort of report getting into the news lately. Transcript, March 24, 2006 Here is a short bit to wet your appetite for reading the whole transcript: BRANCACCIO: Welcome to NOW, on the road this week in Central Florida, in sight of what military officials call the home game. Before the attacks of September 11th, the U.S. Armed Forces paid attention to threats outside our borders. Now our military is expanding the way it watches for potential threats here at home. The Pentagon, working with local law enforcement, now has secret databases to keep tabs on possible terrorist activity. And it is surprisingly easy to get swept into the system. In some cases, it's been as easy as joining a peace march here in Florida. The program is called TALON, and as we found out, it's operating without much in the way of Congressional oversight. Bryan Myers produced our report. BRANCACCIO: October 4th, 2002. An alarming report works its way thru a sheriff's office in central Florida. A confidential source warns the Brevard County authorities that a planned peace protest at nearby Kennedy Space Center may turn violent. Calling the protest group sinister, the source warns something special is in store. The day of the rally, captured on home video, sheriff's deputies and NASA security officials are everywhere, ready for the worst. PROTESTER: I came today to protest against the anti-weapons and nuclear power in the space program. BRANCACCIO: The sinister protestors. Funny, maybe, but something very serious is going on here. It's the story of just why the authorities got so nervous about a bunch of law-abiding citizens. It turns out, the confidential source who raised the alarm was our own United States Air Force. PRESIDENT BUSH: I, George Walker Bush, do solemnly swear... BRANCACCIO: After President Bush was re-elected in 2004, Jeff and his fellow activists had an idea: hold a so-called counter inaugural at the local city hall where they would publicly reaffirm their liberal values. 34 others joined them for what would be a peaceful rally. NALL: At some point, we were there after the ceremony had sort of ended, and we were holding signs, somebody says, Look over there, what's going on? There's an officer with a camera pointed right at us. BRANCACCIO: The local police didn't see the rally as so innocent. In fact, it's the police tape you've been watching. Nall enlisted the local ACLU to find out what was going on. He learned the videotape was the tip of the iceberg. Over the years, the local sheriff had written hundreds of pages of reports about Nall's group and others... Please browse to: http://www.pbs.org/now/printable/transcriptN0W212_full_print.html for the rest of the story. Mike McGinness ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process
Joe, WOW! Great find. I take back what I said in my earlier reply today about being too costly, etc. From the data its looks like the ultrasonic might be producing OH free radicals in the water and thus reducing the amount of added base catalyst required, which in turn is increasing the yield and purity? (at the lower frequency). Also, 600 khz equipment was not around in my day of selling ultrasonic equipment, 75 kHz was the highest frequency around then. Probably the electronics were not fast enough in the 1970's? I notice they are using two different frequencies, one for the reaction (28 khz) and another for the separation stage (600 khz). The patent claims an even wider range of usable frequencies, up to 3,000 khz! Here is the US version of the patent itself: Patent I am not sure that I follow the math on claim #4!?? -Mike McGinness Joe Street wrote: Well I found THIS which gives a little more info about frequency and power density. It looks like this is done in a tank without agitation and settling happens with higher frequency u-sonics. Hmmm. Joe Joe Street wrote: To answer the question what am I talking about, I heard about it on another biodiesel list and I'm not sure about the exact setup. I expect it is a way of adding energy into the process. I am interested in this as I was in the so called electrically catalized alternative process which I as yet have not been able to reproduce. The idea here is that energy added can help speed up a reaction and I think ( chemists blast me if I'm wrong) can tip the balance in favor of one direction in equilibrium type reactions. Actually heating the oil is a form of this type of energy input and we do this already. I have been curious about other ways of coupling energy into the system such as UV radiation, RF radiation and now I hear about ultrasonics. Typically the transducers comercially available are in the 40 Khz frequency range. The little jewelery cleaners are low power and I wouldn't waste my time although they are good for assisting in nano particle production and electro-colloid generation. An industrial power level US generator might be 300-500 watts and often is capable of frequency swept operation. I don't think the frequency is so important from a quantum perspective as it would be in the case of higher frequency stimulation like RF, microwave, or UV radiation where energy absorbtion depends on the bandgap of the material being radiated, but in the case of ultrasonics it is more due to mechanical effects. Microcavitation creates small scale shockwaves which have surprisingly high energy densities though so it is a powerful technique. The idea I am toying with is to put a cell disrupter in the recirculation line and pass the reaction through a confined but high energy density zone while the reaction proceeds. So yes it does only affect a small volume but since it is in the recirculation line I can move the entire volume of the fluid through 'the 'zone' First I have to source a surplus disrupter. If only I had some romulan friends.sigh (lol no that comment does not indicate this whole thing is an april fools joke) Joe Mike Weaver wrote: You can buy fairly small ones - they are advertised (or used to be) to clean jewelry. Keith Addison wrote: I think he was talking about a dip tank like what is used to clean industrial parts en masse. it relies on complementary ultrasonic frequencies to basically heat and rattle the crud out of things my friend uses them at the printing shop where he works. He does? And it works?? Why doesn't someone sell them to the mainstream press? Or d'you think you'd have to nuke the journalists instead? Best Keith - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process Joe. What are you talking about when it comes to ultrasonics? Jim Joe Street wrote: Hey Bob; You ever considered using ultrasonics to speed up the reaction? You still have to deal with the settling time but I hear the US can make the reaction happen in minutes instead of hours. I'm trying to get my hands on a cell disrupter to put inline on my recirculation tube to test this but haven't had any luck yet. Something to ponder and if any of the chem whiz's out there in e-land care to comment I'm all eyes. Joe Bob Carr wrote: Hi all, Time to report on my acid /base progress, and then ask for advice from more experienced list members. I have made several batches of very good Bd from all manner of feedstocks, by following Aleks Kac's foolproof process to the letter. But being the
Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process
Joe Street wrote: To answer the question what am I talking about, I heard about it on another biodiesel list and I'm not sure about the exact setup. I expect it is a way of adding energy into the process. I am interested in this as I was in the so called electrically catalized alternative process which I as yet have not been able to reproduce. The idea here is that energy added can help speed up a reaction and I think ( chemists blast me if I'm wrong) can tip the balance in favor of one direction in equilibrium type reactions. I do not think it will tip the balance, only speed up reaching equilibrium. Actually heating the oil is a form of this type of energy input and we do this already. I have been curious about other ways of coupling energy into the system such as UV radiation, RF radiation and now I hear about ultrasonics. Typically the transducers comercially available are in the 40 Khz frequency range. The little jewelery cleaners are low power and I wouldn't waste my time although they are good for assisting in nano particle production and electro-colloid generation. The jewelry cleaners are typically 60 Khz. Some commercial jewelry cleaners and lab units like Cole-Palmer lists, though way overpriced (like by 50%), are high enough in power density to do the job if the surface tension is not to high. The issue of best frequency would be debateable. I do recall that all these units do not cavitate the solution until the liquid has been degassed!! So keep that in mind!! An industrial power level US generator might be 300-500 watts and often is capable of frequency swept operation. I don't think the frequency is so important from a quantum perspective as it would be in the case of higher frequency stimulation like RF, microwave, or UV radiation where energy absorbtion depends on the bandgap of the material being radiated, but in the case of ultrasonics it is more due to mechanical effects. Microcavitation creates small scale shockwaves which have surprisingly high energy densities though so it is a powerful technique. This is correct. They create a high frequency wave motion in the liquid that forms tiny gas bubbles at the low pressure end of the wave. The bubbles are then collapsed at the high pressure end of the wave front. This all happens at say 20 to 75 KHz (whatever frequency the generator is designed for). The collapse, or cavitation is said to produce instantaneous temperatures (but on a molecular scale) as high as 5000 degrees (degrees F as I recall). The energy rapidly decays into bulk heat in the solution. The idea I am toying with is to put a cell disrupter in the recirculation line and pass the reaction through a confined but high energy density zone while the reaction proceeds. So yes it does only affect a small volume but since it is in the recirculation line I can move the entire volume of the fluid through 'the 'zone' First I have to source a surplus disrupter. If only I had some romulan friends.sigh (lol no that comment does not indicate this whole thing is an april fools joke) I am sure Quark ( the Feringi ) could have gotten you a great deal on one, LOL. Your comment reminds me of the Feringi Rules of Acquisition. It is a unique piece of humor, still LOL. For instance rule number 28 is: Morality is always defined by those in power! OK, back on topic, I sold and serviced industrial Ultrasonic cleaners in the late 1970's and early 80's. They are great at creating micro mechanical scrubbing action in hard to reach areas that helps speed up and improve cleaning of delicate intricate parts. They also can mix and disperse colloidal material which might help your reaction go faster by dispersing colloidal particles in solution better and faster, but the energy costs and hardware costs, in my opinion, would be way out of proportion with any advantages. I would think that a simple centrifugal pump with high internal shear forces would accomplish the same end results as an ultrasonic unit, and do it faster and at much less cost. Hope this helps. Best Mike McGinness Joe Mike Weaver wrote: You can buy fairly small ones - they are advertised (or used to be) to clean jewelry. Keith Addison wrote: I think he was talking about a dip tank like what is used to clean industrial parts en masse. it relies on complementary ultrasonic frequencies to basically heat and rattle the crud out of things my friend uses them at the printing shop where he works. He does? And it works?? Why doesn't someone sell them to the mainstream press? Or d'you think you'd have to nuke the journalists instead? Best Keith - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process Joe. What are you talking about when it comes to ultrasonics?
[Biofuel] Glycerine use and other fancy stuff
I am very interested in finding a use for the glycerine made by the reaction. I don't need that much soap and the local companies I have called have not been interested. The idea of using ammonia to make potassium and ammonium phosphate. I am having a time getting a handle on the searches in the archives, but I'll keeo trying. The long and short of it is that many people in my area simply flush the glycerine and I don't want to consider that. So, any processes that people have used in the past as suggestions would be interesting to me. The discussion of speeding up the acid/base process with ultrasound seems a little out there. If the idea is to use renewable fuels, how much electrical energy from the natural gas fired generating plant will be used to speed up an equlibrium process? I think too much to keep with the ideals. I don't mean to be critical. I ain't been here long enough for that. And the people here have such a strong hold on the concepts, I am just wondering if/what I am missing? respectfully, Greg Kelly___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] More on complexities of Global warming and recent solar input update
Published March 9, 2006, from: GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 33, L05708, doi:10.1029/2005GL025539, 2006 Phenomenological solar contribution to the 19002000 global surface warming N. Scafetta Physics Department, Duke University, Durham, North Carolina, USA B. J. West Physics Department, Duke University, Durham, North Carolina, USA Mathematical and Information Science Directorate, U.S. Army Research Office, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina, USA Abstract We study the role of solar forcing on global surface temperature during four periods of the industrial era (19002000, 19001950, 19502000 and 19802000) by using a sun-climate coupling model based on four scale-dependent empirical climate sensitive parameters to solar variations. We use two alternative total solar irradiance satellite composites, ACRIM and PMOD, and a total solar irradiance proxy reconstruction. We estimate that the sun contributed as much as 4550% of the 19002000 global warming, and 2535% of the 19802000 global warming. These results, while confirming that anthropogenic-added climate forcing might have progressively played a dominant role in climate change during the last century, also suggest that the solar impact on climate change during the same period is significantly stronger than what some theoretical models have predicted. Received 19 December 2005; accepted 30 January 2006; published 9 March 2006. Index Terms: 1616 Global Change: Climate variability (1635, 3305, 3309, 4215, 4513); 1626 Global Change: Global climate models (3337, 4928); 1650 Global Change: Solar variability (7537); 1699 Global Change: General or miscellaneous; 1739 History of Geophysics: Solar/planetary relationships. Full Article (Nonsubscribers may purchase for $9.00, Includes print PDF, file size: 156579 bytes) Citation: Scafetta, N., and B. J. West (2006), Phenomenological solar contribution to the 19002000 global surface warming, Geophys. Res. Lett., 33, L05708, doi:10.1029/2005GL025539. Copyright 2006 by the American Geophysical Union. Original link is at: http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2006.../2005GL025539.shtml ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process
Joe, The link on my last message did not get through (I sent it as text by mistake). Here is the USPTO web site page, again with the full text of the patent: The US Patent Only problem seems to be hardware start up cost, but for larger operations it sounds like it would be very cost effective. -Mike McGinness Joe Street wrote: Well I found THIS which gives a little more info about frequency and power density. It looks like this is done in a tank without agitation and settling happens with higher frequency u-sonics. Hmmm. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Recent PBS report Persons of Interest TALON program - US AirForce
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison Mike McGinness wrote: Greetings all, I recently watched the PBS broadcast, interview whose transcript is below. It is about our own government (USA) breaking the law and spying on its own citizens, in general. It speaks for itself...It also says a lot, in my opinion as to why so few in the USA spoke out against the war in Iraq, until recently. They were afraid to labeled as traitors, including the democrats in congress. I think and hope that tide has changed here as I am seeing more and more of this sort of report getting into the news lately. Transcript, March 24, 2006 Here is a short bit to wet your appetite for reading the whole transcript: BRANCACCIO: Welcome to NOW, on the road this week in Central Florida, in sight of what military officials call the home game. Before the attacks of September 11th, the U.S. Armed Forces paid attention to threats outside our borders. Now our military is expanding the way it watches for potential threats here at home. The Pentagon, working with local law enforcement, now has secret databases to keep tabs on possible terrorist activity. And it is surprisingly easy to get swept into the system. In some cases, it's been as easy as joining a peace march here in Florida. The program is called TALON, and as we found out, it's operating without much in the way of Congressional oversight. Bryan Myers produced our report. BRANCACCIO: October 4th, 2002. An alarming report works its way thru a sheriff's office in central Florida. A confidential source warns the Brevard County authorities that a planned peace protest at nearby Kennedy Space Center may turn violent. Calling the protest group sinister, the source warns something special is in store. The day of the rally, captured on home video, sheriff's deputies and NASA security officials are everywhere, ready for the worst. PROTESTER: I came today to protest against the anti-weapons and nuclear power in the space program. BRANCACCIO: The sinister protestors. Funny, maybe, but something very serious is going on here. It's the story of just why the authorities got so nervous about a bunch of law-abiding citizens. It turns out, the confidential source who raised the alarm was our own United States Air Force. PRESIDENT BUSH: I, George Walker Bush, do solemnly swear... BRANCACCIO: After President Bush was re-elected in 2004, Jeff and his fellow activists had an idea: hold a so-called counter inaugural at the local city hall where they would publicly reaffirm their liberal values. 34 others joined them for what would be a peaceful rally. NALL: At some point, we were there after the ceremony had sort of ended, and we were holding signs, somebody says, Look over there, what's going on? There's an officer with a camera pointed right at us. BRANCACCIO: The local police didn't see the rally as so innocent. In fact, it's the police tape you've been watching. Nall enlisted the local ACLU to find out what was going on. He learned the videotape was the tip of the iceberg. Over the years, the local sheriff had written hundreds of pages of reports about Nall's group and others... Please browse to: http://www.pbs.org/now/printable/transcriptN0W212_full_print.html for the rest of the story. Mike McGinness ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Grass Bioenergy
Tony Marzolino wrote: Tony Marzolino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone have any additional information on grass as a bio-fuel and the conversion into pellets as the site below suggests? The site does not have much detail information (capital investment, process, market, etc). It looks interesting!!! Any thoughts? http://www.grassbioenergy.org/ The best thing about this Cornell web site is the 'Demonstration' page, which summarizes a set of experiments with burning grass pellets in various real stoves and furnaces. The issue involved is the fairly high ash content of cool season grass. Canadians have researched this subject of burning grass pellets. Do a Google search on "switchgrass pellet stoves canada" and you will find some of their web pages. You should be aware that grass is being burned in some coal-fired electric power plants. Up to 10% grass is burned with the coal. Currently a power plant near Ottumwa, Iowa is running a trial of this idea; they burn 2.5% switchgrass, in the form of big bales. I am aware of another power plant project which will use pellets. -Don Wells begin:vcard fn:Don Wells n:Wells;Don adr:;;;Charlottesville;VA;;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;cell:+1-434-962-3363 url:http://home.earthlink.net/~dwellscho/ version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A green question(s)...
Hi again Daniel Sorry there was some confusion in the responses to your message. Forget about the advice to use more lye, especially as you'd already said you'd tried that and got worse results. It's very unlikely that you need to change the basic quantity of lye for it to work right. Just to be sure, what kind of oil are you using, both virgin oil and WVO? (maybe my measuring tools are poor...) You're working with one-tenth of a gram margins, which is okay, but you should do whatever you can to be able to feel confident that you're staying within that margin and that your other measurements are accurate too. This is definitely the most common reason for learners' test-batches failing the tests. I did a titration with 1% NaOH, and got magenta\pink after 2.3 ml (2-3 times). So I put 5.8gr (3.5 +2.3) of NaOH, and got with the best washing quality test ever! The biodiesel got separated in 20 minutes with a paper thin layer between. The third wash was cristal clear. Beginners luck? :-) Why knock it? In order to be sure that it is really working, I've tried different concentration of NaOH. But then I got excellent separation in the washing test also with 6.2gr of NaOH... How can that be? Increasing the lye from 5.8 to 6.2 grams is a 0.4g increase. You titrated the WVO at 2.3 ml, and that's probably accurate, or not far wrong. That's nice oil, ideal for newbie test batches, not too much FFA. WVO at 2.3 ml can probably take a 0.4g lye variation, as long as you process it properly. Virgin oil can also take that variation, which is why I don't think altering the lye amounts will help you. But 6.5 ml titration WVO will not be so forgiving, there's much less margin for error, and 10.5 ml WVO will not be forgiving at all - now you need not only good processing but exact amounts of lye as well. With these high-FFA oils you should use a little extra lye, as advised at our website. But newbies should avoid oils like that, 2-3 ml is ideal, so that's not a concern for you now. How do you mix the methoxide? How are you processing the biodiesel - how do you agitate it, for how long, at what temperature, how do you maintain temperature control? Was my magenta really pink and not magenta??? :-) What's the difference, really? It probably depends who's looking. Actually it doesn't matter, this will work just as well: when it starts to change colour and stays that way for 15 seconds. You have to add the 0.1% NaOH solution carefully, drop by drop, one drop at a time, stirring all the time and waiting to see the effect of each new drop. It's a sort of murky grey colour once you've stirred up the isopropanol, the oil sample and some of the NaOH solution, that is no colour at all, then suddenly it's not just murky grey and takes on a little colour. Wait, see how long it stays there. If it goes grey again in a few seconds, add another drop. When the tinge of colour stays for 15 seconds, you've got it. Anyway, Daniel, it sounds like you're doing just fine. Keep going and you'll get there, not too far to go. Good luck! Best Keith Hi all, First of all, a big THANX for all the people in Journey to Forever for sharing their knowledge and experience with the rest of us! I'm a beginner in the biodiesel world (a few months only), and I have some questions... I've tried to find answers in the archives, but hadn't found any. Anyway, my story is something like this: I have done a lot of new veg oil test batches of 1 liter (3.5 gr NaOH, 200ml Methanol) by the book, and at the quality washing tests (shaking violently the separated biodiesel with water), although I got better results with time, the best I got was a separation from the water, but with half to one cm wide intermediate layer between the water and the biodiesel. I've tried 3.7gr of NaOH and got worse results. Should I try 3.4gr ofThe funny thing is, that I tried to process a WVO. I did a titration with 1% NaOH, and got magenta\pink after 2.3 ml (2-3 times). So I put 5.8gr (3.5 +2.3) of NaOH, and got with the best washing quality test ever! The biodiesel got separated in 20 minutes with a paper thin layer between. The third wash was cristal clear. Beginners luck? In order to be sure that it is really working, I've tried different concentration of NaOH. But then I got excellent separation in the washing test also with 6.2gr of NaOH... How can that be? Was my magenta really pink and not magenta??? Perhaps my titration was to low- do you get good washing tests when you use less NaOH than you should? Thanx Daniel ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine use and other fancy stuff
Hello Greg I am very interested in finding a use for the glycerine made by the reaction. Have you looked at this? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html Glycerine I don't need that much soap and the local companies I have called have not been interested. The idea of using ammonia to make potassium and ammonium phosphate. Yes, nice. Those are just ordinary chemical fertilisers, I wouldn't put them in the soil, but I'd put them in the compost, as Tom said, if they're mostly derived onsite as a by-product of a sustainable process, which this is, mostly. I am having a time getting a handle on the searches in the archives, It's just a simple search, but you can use Boolean searches to an extent, eg, put a phrase in double quotes. The limitation is that it only gives you the first hundred hits, so if your search term is too general you'll only get to see the tip of the iceberg. But that will give you further search terms you can use to narrow it down. Searching is a bit of an art, but it's well worth learning, generally, not just for the list archives. but I'll keeo trying. The long and short of it is that many people in my area simply flush the glycerine and I don't want to consider that. Actually it's not as bad as it sounds. Some home-brewers have pointed out that wastewater treatment systems should be able to handle the glycerin by-product without problems. It mixes with water, it's biodegradable, and if you reclaim the excess methanol first, it's non-toxic. As for the lye and the soap, lye is a drain-cleaner after all, and wastewater plants are no strangers to soap. Even the methanol might be an advantage, some of the digester bacteria like it. But it's best not to pour by-product down the drain or the toilet without checking with your local authority first. Ken Provost said this about it: The junk as you call it, is composed primarily of three things -- leftover(ie, excess) methanol or ethanol, glycerol, soap, water, and alkali (NaOH or KOH). Methanol, ethanol, glycerol, and soap are all entirely biodegradable over a very short timespan. The alkali can be sewered in urban areas to the same extent as any drain cleaner. If that is bothersome to you, it can easily be neutralized to NaCl or KCl using hydro- chloric acid. I personally have no qualms with any of that, and I consider myself fairly anal about what I put down the drain. I just think it's a waste, but if you have no other options that's the last one. So, any processes that people have used in the past as suggestions would be interesting to me. The discussion of speeding up the acid/base process with ultrasound seems a little out there. If the idea is to use renewable fuels, how much electrical energy from the natural gas fired generating plant will be used to speed up an equlibrium process? I think too much to keep with the ideals. I don't mean to be critical. I ain't been here long enough for that. And the people here have such a strong hold on the concepts, I am just wondering if/what I am missing? respectfully, Greg Kelly Well, I agree with you. Someone emailed me maybe six months or a year ago suggesting ultrasonics would speed up the process, but I didn't take much notice, on the basis of K.I.S.S. Why get into stuff you can't source locally and probably can't maintain or repair yourself, when it works pretty well without it anyway? I had rather the same attitude to it as to centrifuges, only worse, since a local shop probably can make a centrifuge, depending on the shop, but I don't think centrifuges work very well anyway, apart from being excessive. Anyway though we have to do Appropriate Technology not everyone's in the same position, so I don't think using ultrasonics is out place, if it works. Which Joe looks like finding out, strength to his elbow. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Grass Bioenergy
I have yet to go thru the entire website but i found that this is very interesting!Actually there are already plans to cultivate grass as energy fuel. But dedicated cultivation is not always the best solution. I mean, if we can simply harvest grass from waste land or unoccupied land, that will be making good use of waste! http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/15235/story.htmWe should discuss in using grass as biofuel here. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Recent PBS report Persons of Interest TALON program - US AirForce
Hi Todd, Mike If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison Yeah, it's also classic Orwell, if there isn't an enemy you have to invent one, if your name happens to be Big Brother, that is. It makes things so much easier for the Ministry of Love and the Ministry of Truth. So the three world power blocs took turns being the enemy of the other two. Lots of people are writing about Orwell these days, progress, when you measure it against the very few but very bothered souls who were writing about Krystalnacht three or four years ago. People are still making plenty of apt comparisons with the Nazis, and there are more and more comparisons of Krystalnacht and 9/11, and of 9/11 with Pearl Harbour, the Gulf of Tonkin, etc etc, and the leaked memo you posted the other day: [Biofuel] Bush Was Set on Path to War, Memo by British Adviser Says http://snipurl.com/ofx9 The US always starts its wars that way. People definitely seem to be waking up en masse. About time too. http://www.alternet.org/blogs/echochamber/34171/ The country is almost back to normal! Cenk Uygur March 28, 2006 He says America has woken up at last. It's almost as if the psychiatrist has snapped his fingers, and the country has woken up. The spell is broken. I just said in another thread that they need an antidote, or maybe a fairy princess to kiss them and break the evil spell that turned them into a frog, and it looks like it's headed that way but it hasn't got there yet, not by a long way. As you said previously Todd, it's a hell of a pity about the half million or so dead folks left beside the trail in the meantime. Since the reasons for it were lies it amounts to mass murder, no? I don't think Americans have quite awakened to that yet en masse. A reader's comment on Uygur's piece says: Rough times remain ahead before we get together with the world again, and atone for our sins as masters of the universe. Indeed. If that doesn't happen, if you try to sweep half a million murders under the corner of the carpet (and the rest), this current nightmare is bound to keep recurring, worse each time. That's not an option that promises a glorious future, if any. This is the now-famous paragraph by Bill Blum that Bin Laden quoted (in part): If I were the president, I could stop terrorist attacks against the United States in a few days. Permanently. I would first apologize to all the widows and orphans, the tortured and impoverished, and all the many millions of other victims of American imperialism. Then I would announce, in all sincerity, to every corner of the world, that America's global interventions have come to an end, and inform Israel that it is no longer the 51st state of the USA but now -- oddly enough -- a foreign country. I would then reduce the military budget by at least 90% and use the savings to pay reparations to the victims. There would be more than enough money. One year's military budget of 330 billion dollars is equal to more than $18,000 an hour for every hour since Jesus Christ was born. That's what I'd do on my first three days in the White House. On the fourth day, I'd be assassinated. What kind of USA would it be where he wouldn't be assassinated? It would have to be the kind that the American myths speak of all the time, that America is the land of freedom and democracy, defender of rights and peace and justice. Just an empty myth, laid bare for all to see. Time to make it real. Nobody will believe that Americans don't have it in them and are capable of it, no matter what it costs them. Meanwhile, back at the ranch... Quote: And we're a country of deep compassion. We care. One of the great things about America, one of the beauties of our country, is that when we see a young, innocent child blown up by an IED [Improvised Explosive Device], we cry. We don't care what the child's religion may be, or where that child may live, we cry. It upsets us. The enemy knows that, and they're willing to -- they're willing to kill to shake our confidence. That's what they're trying to do. -- George W. Bush, March 29, 2006 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/03/20060329-6.html President Discusses Democracy in Iraq with Freedom House Best Keith Mike McGinness wrote: Greetings all, I recently watched the PBS broadcast, interview whose transcript is below. It is about our own government (USA) breaking the law and spying on its own citizens, in general. It speaks for itself...It also says a lot, in my opinion as to why so few in the USA spoke out against the war in Iraq, until recently. They were afraid to labeled as traitors, including the democrats in congress. I think and hope that tide has changed here as I am seeing more and more of this sort of report getting into the news lately. Transcript, March 24, 2006 Here is a short bit to wet your appetite for reading the
