Re: [Tagging] Re : Ski resort (once again)
2013/2/4 yve...@gmail.com yve...@gmail.com: There is already route=piste relations (the colors on the link provided). This is something else. what kind of objects do you propose would be grouped in these site relations, just the nordic piste or also connected services, hotels, etc.? I guess you want to group linear features (piste) with areas and points (hotels, parkings, restaurants,...)? In case the answer to the latter question is yes a site relation might indeed be appropriate. Alternatively you could suggest a new tag for belonging to resort foo, or maybe even reuse an established key (e.g. network). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Re : Ski resort (once again)
I think relations are not applicable for this case. To me it seems as if you want to put everything from inside a village in one relation, because they are all in that village. That's just not how OSM works. Either that resort has borders, and you draw them, or the ski lifts and piste have the same operator and you put operator=* on everything that is operated by them. Again, relations are not categories.http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations_are_not_categories Janko Mihelić ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Re : Ski resort (once again)
2013/2/4 Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com: I think relations are not applicable for this case. To me it seems as if you want to put everything from inside a village in one relation, because they are all in that village. That's just not how OSM works. Either that resort has borders, and you draw them, or the ski lifts and piste have the same operator and you put operator=* on everything that is operated by them. if they don't have a common operator and the resort doesn't have a border (i.e. it isn't an area but a mixture of areas and routes) you cannot map them? Btw.: the OP is asking for nordic pistes, so there won't necessarily be any lifts. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Re : Ski resort (once again)
2013/2/4 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com if they don't have a common operator and the resort doesn't have a border (i.e. it isn't an area but a mixture of areas and routes) you cannot map them? Btw.: the OP is asking for nordic pistes, so there won't necessarily be any lifts. Why not resort=L'Auberson on all nordic pistes? Yvecai says it's error prone, but so are names and operators of banks and atm machines. If you want to find errors, use tools like http://overpass-turbo.eu. I have made a small script to find all nordic pistes without the tag resort=L'Auberson or Les Fourgs or La Seigne or Jougne: Link to overpass-turbo.http://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=PCEtLQpUaGlzIMSHIGFuIGV4YW1wbGUgT3ZlcnBhc8SIcXXEmXkuxIRyecSJdCBvdcSoYsSmcHJlxJ1pbmcgdGjElVJ1xI1ixKt0b8SNYWJvxJghClnEqiBjxIwgZsSzZCBtb8SwxI7EkMSSxJTEiHdpxLfEtsS4IExvYcWQxL9vbMSjCsWoxII-CjzEu2nFgMWrICA8xJ_EocS2eXBlPSJ3YXkixbHFssWzaMScLWt2IGvFu3DEh3RlOnTFuGUiIHbFu27Fk2RpYyIvxoHFsjzGhHPGhsaIxooixLBzxZN0xpTFkmTGliLGmMarxpXFu0wnQXVixJnGqW7GncafxoPGhcaHxonFu8aoxqrGrG_GrsaXb8ayxq9MxLEgRsSqcmdzxr0KxoLGv8ajx4HGpseEcsayxq3Gr8axxpTHjGEgU2VpZ27Gk8aex5bGgsahx4DGpceDxLHHhcWRx4fHoMeKx6LFu0rEqsepx6vGvjxixYN4LcW1xKUge3vIgW94fX3HrMagL8iFecaBPMSwY3Vyc8SVxpHFucW7xb15LcaYZMe-xawvxa7FsMWoPMSvxLN0xp4c=BMTyHuuaoOR And I put a few resort=L'Auberson tags just to check the script. Janko Mihelić ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Re : Ski resort (once again)
2013/2/4 Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com 2013/2/4 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com if they don't have a common operator and the resort doesn't have a border (i.e. it isn't an area but a mixture of areas and routes) you cannot map them? Btw.: the OP is asking for nordic pistes, so there won't necessarily be any lifts. Why not resort=L'Auberson on all nordic pistes? Yvecai says it's error prone, but so are names and operators of banks and atm machines. If you want to find errors, use tools like http://overpass-turbo.eu. I have made a small script to find all nordic pistes without the tag resort=L'Auberson or Les Fourgs or La Seigne or Jougne: http://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=PCEtLQpUaGlzIMSHIGFuIGV4YW1wbGUgT3ZlcnBhc8SIcXXEmXkuxIRyecSJdCBvdcSoYsSmcHJlxJ1pbmcgdGjElVJ1xI1ixKt0b8SNYWJvxJghClnEqiBjxIwgZsSzZCBtb8SwxI7EkMSSxJTEiHdpxLfEtsS4IExvYcWQxL9vbMSjCsWoxII-CjzEu2nFgMWrICA8xJ_EocS2eXBlPSJ3YXkixbHFssWzaMScLWt2IGvFu3DEh3RlOnTFuGUiIHbFu27Fk2RpYyIvxoHFsjzGhHPGhsaIxooixLBzxZN0xpTFkmTGliLGmMarxpXFu0wnQXVixJnGqW7GncafxoPGhcaHxonFu8aoxqrGrG_GrsaXb8ayxq9MxLEgRsSqcmdzxr0KxoLGv8ajx4HGpseEcsayxq3Gr8axxpTHjGEgU2VpZ27Gk8aex5bGgsahx4DGpceDxLHHhcWRx4fHoMeKx6LFu0rEqsepx6vGvjxixYN4LcW1xKUge3vIgW94fX3HrMagL8iFecaBPMSwY3Vyc8SVxpHFucW7xb15LcaYZMe-xawvxa7FsMWoPMSvxLN0xp4c=BMTyHuuaoOR Works exactly as long as no piste belongs to more than one resort. If anyone does, you still need to switch to relations. I don't know about nordic pistes, but there are definitely lifts for alpine pistes that are used by visitors of two ski resorts. Regards, Chaos ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [Imports] RFC - Adding UN LOCODE tags to OSM
Doug, Since you're pretty knowledgable about this topic, it'd probably also be good if you could flesh out the harbor:LOCODE page on the wiki ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:harbour:LOCODE). It's part of this big harbour proposal: wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Harbour Cheers, Brad PS--one side question: shouldn't LOCODE be locode (that is, lowercase)? that's how iata and icao are handled for aerodromes... On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 11:47 AM, doug.fra...@tarisoga.com wrote: Followup to my post: I am here at the London OSM Hack Weekend and spoke to someone who explained to me the larger issues and questions about importing / updating metadata like LOCODEs that can't be surveyed - i.e. data where managing the process of keeping it current may be troublesome. I agree with everything he explained and so now I don't think updating the LOCODEs that are present, etc would be the best idea. Letting the existing tags die off sounds like the best idea. But locodes are assigned to harbours and they are surveyable, can be verified by the public, all that sort of thing. So the UN list could be used to update or verify that cities have appropriate harbour tags associated with them. IIRC, Long Beach (or LA) was one test case I looked at and it didn't have a tag that i'd expected. So now my idea is to check the harbour tags against the UN data (this could also be done for rail stations) and then determine how much data is missing and what ought to be improved. A related idea is that port terminals (for commercial shipping) are becoming prominent features (e.g. they are getting their own locodes) and perhaps a new tag harbour:terminal (like harbour:pier) could be created for handling this data. Container terminals are physical features and won't arbitrarily change, so they aren't metadata like LOCODEs. If anyone has any feedback, I'd appreciate it. I don't plan on doing anything until I fully understand the details of all this, so I can write it all up, etc. doug [Imports] RFC - Adding UN LOCODE tags to OSM writes: Hi everyone, This is a duplicate of a email I sent to the Tagging list: The company I work for deals with shipping ports, UN LOCODEs, and shipping schedules - I had hoped to use OSM to correlate geographical type info and LOCODEs. The problem has become messier than I ever thought, and unfortunately OSM does not have much in the way of LOCODE related data. At this point, we have a well maintained list of LOCODEs and other such data that I keep track with the UN list as it is updated. So I thought it'd be useful to put all that into OSM and clean up the handful of LOCODE tags that I have seen in OSM. This list also includes IATA data and some other port type info - everything has been gleaned from public data sources like the UN, so I'm sure there are no license related issues. I'm also confident of the accuracy since I'm the one responsible for maintaining the data. I will write up a feature proposal on the wiki to outline the details, but first I wanted to see if there were any comments or advice people might have. I do plan to automate the updates - none of this is map data per se, but just tags, so I assume there won't be any real complications. So I will read all about the guidelines around automation. The questions I had are: 1) the UN provides geographical coordinates of these LOCODEs, typically the city center. Is there any standard that OSM adheres to regarding the location of cities? Anyone have any pointers to info I should read? 2) alternative place names - the UN provides some data and we have data from other sources. The data is good, but is there any consensus on this topic about how OSM ought to operate? 3) locations/cities not in OSM at all - adding these in is a separate task entirely so I will leave that till I understand OSM better. But if someone could point me in the right direction, that'd be great. Thanks doug __**_ Imports mailing list impo...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/importshttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports __**_ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/tagginghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Re : Ski resort (once again)
2013/2/4 Ronnie Soak chaoschaos0...@googlemail.com Works exactly as long as no piste belongs to more than one resort. If anyone does, you still need to switch to relations. I don't know about nordic pistes, but there are definitely lifts for alpine pistes that are used by visitors of two ski resorts. There, I fixed it to work with semicolon delimited values: Overpass-turbohttp://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=PCEtLQpUaGlzIMSHIGFuIGV4YW1wbGUgT3ZlcnBhc8SIcXXEmXkuxIRyecSJdCBvdcSoYsSmcHJlxJ1pbmcgdGjElVJ1xI1ixKt0b8SNYWJvxJghClnEqiBjxIwgZsSzZCBtb8SwxI7EkMSSxJTEiHdpxLfEtsS4IExvYcWQxL9vbMSjCsWoxII-CjzEu2nFgMWrICA8xJ_EocS2eXBlPSJ3YXkixbHFssWzaMScLWt2IGvFu3DEh3RlOnTFuGUiIHbFu27Fk2RpYyIvxoHFsjzGhHPGhsaIxooixLBzxZN0xpTFkmTGliLGmMarIMSwZ8avTCdBdWLEmcapbsadxp_Gg8aFxofGicW7xqjGqsasb8auxpdvxrLGtMa2xLEgRsSqcmdzxr8KxoLHgcajx4PGpseGcsayxq3Gr8axxpTHjsW7TGEgU2VpZ27Gk8aex5jGgsahx4LGpceFxLHHh8WRx4nHoseMx6RlxrXFu0rEqsetx6_HgDxixYN4LcW1xKUge3vIh294fX3HsMagL8iLecaBPMSwY3Vyc8SVxpHFucW7xb15LcaYZMiExawvxa7FsMWoPMSvxLN0xp4c=BMTwi4QbgOR And here is an inverted query, that only shows piste:type=nordic that are a part of these resorts: Overpass-turbohttp://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=PCEtLQpUaGlzIMSHIGFuIGV4YW1wbGUgT3ZlcnBhc8SIcXXEmXkuxIRyecSJdCBvdcSoYsSmcHJlxJ1pbmcgdGjElVJ1xI1ixKt0b8SNYWJvxJghClnEqiBjxIwgZsSzZCBtb8SwxI7EkMSSxJTEiHdpxLfEtsS4IExvYcWQxL9vbMSjCsWoxII-CjzEu2nFgMWrICA8xJ_EocS2eXBlPSJ3YXkixbHFssWzaMScLWt2IGvFu3DEh3RlOnTFuGUiIHbFu27Fk2RpYyIvxoHFsjzGhHPGhsaIxooixLBzxZN0xpTEsGfGliJMJ0F1YsSZxqluxp3Gn8WzYsWDeC3FtcSlIHt7xrxveH19xp4KxqAvx4B5xoE8xLBjdXJzxJXGkcW5xbvFvXktxphkxpPHisagx47Ft8eZxbzFvsaAx4vGgsahxoXGh8aJxovGjcaPx5jGk8aVxpfGmcabxrnHqcagxqLGpMeuxqfEscaqxqxlxq7Fu0zEsSBGxKpyZ3PHuMaCxrvGvca_xKDHgceDx4XHh8eJx5DHjciSx4_HqceRZceTx5XHl8aSx5rFvsedb8efyI3Fs8ejx7LIo8W_xrrHq8ajx63GpsaMc8aOxpDGksaUxq_GmHLGmsacx6HHqse7yLHFu8aoyIAgxq3Gr0xhIFNlaWdux6DIrsiVyJHFtsiUxr3HiMi-PMiZxKHHkMeSx5THlsekxbrHpsecx57JkMicyKrIosmix6jIjsivx7zIssewyLbFuci4x7XIu8e3yL7HusesxqXJgse_csaryYXIgsavSsSqyY7JpcmryZLHo8mVx4bJl8iYx47JnMieyZ7Iocelx5vIpcinx4rJmcWuxbDFqDzEr8SzdMaec=BMUATY7s5NR Janko Mihelić ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Re : Ski resort (once again)
Janko, to group a bunch of elements into a relation or add same a tag to all these elements is not quite the same. A relation carry a meaning (type), while with all these tags, It's seems to me just a collection that you can find with a query :) (Actually, we all know that both are technically feasible, no need to fill up the history for testing ;-). Quoting the wiki page you linked: Grouping relations really only make sense if the grouping is neither geographical (as discussed above) nor exclusive ... Exclusive you take care of with a semicolon, why not. For the geography, I think of this 'resorts' as a kind of geography by itself, after all (not sure I use the term properly, pretty sure I don't, in fact). When I go skiing to 'Le Risoux', I don't speak about the forest (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/For%C3%AAt_du_Risoux), nor the mountain (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_Risoux), but rather of a bunch of pistes, along with the 3 entry points and their cabin where people drink tea selling you tickets, and so ... Now, my 'rationale' : As I go skiing here and there for mapping, I more than often go to place I don't know yet. I check websites and forums about snow and skiing and resorts and try to find out how I go there on low-res scanned maps. It took me quite some icy road to find 'Le Risoux', and I first found these pistes by the longest road. I'd like to be able to find it more easily. When I look for 'La Seigne' in nominatim, I found 'Locality La Seigne, Les Hôpitaux-Vieux, Doyenné du Haut-Doubs forestier, Doubs, Freie Grafschaft, France http://www.openstreetmap.org/?minlon=6.37080049514771minlat=46.7974090576172maxlon=6.37080097198486maxlat=46.7974128723145'. Although geographicality close, it's not the same as the 'Resort La Seigne, Les Hôpitaux-Vieux, Doyenné du Haut-Doubs forestier, Doubs, Freie Grafschaft, France http://www.openstreetmap.org/?minlon=6.37080049514771minlat=46.7974090576172maxlon=6.37080097198486maxlat=46.7974128723145' I'm looking for. Also, IMHO it would be good if we could avoid this: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=piste%3Aamenity%3Dcafe Yves ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [Imports] RFC - Adding UN LOCODE tags to OSM
On 04/02/2013 18:26, Douglas Fraser wrote: The data management issues are important, so I'm inclined to update the wiki page to direct people to OpenSeamap as that seems like a more logical place to keep specialized metadata like this and they'd be more inclined to keep the data updated. OpenSeaMap currently map the physical features of ports, but not metadata. We do have a project underway to do this, but it is in its infancy. So if you need this anytime soon, please don't wait for us! ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [Imports] RFC - Adding UN LOCODE tags to OSM
well, I'd like to contribute but I don't want to stomp all over already done work - we have a fairly complete and authoritative set of LOCODEs, including the shipping carrier specific ones (shipping companies feel free to make up their own set of LOCODEs sometimes) so the big question is where should I stick this locode data? Have design decisions been made? On 04/02/2013 18:48, Malcolm Herring wrote: On 04/02/2013 18:26, Douglas Fraser wrote: The data management issues are important, so I'm inclined to update the wiki page to direct people to OpenSeamap as that seems like a more logical place to keep specialized metadata like this and they'd be more inclined to keep the data updated. OpenSeaMap currently map the physical features of ports, but not metadata. We do have a project underway to do this, but it is in its infancy. So if you need this anytime soon, please don't wait for us! ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [Imports] RFC - Adding UN LOCODE tags to OSM
2013/2/4 Douglas Fraser doug.fra...@tarisoga.com: as for LOCODE and locode, it is an acronym and so I tend to capitalize it. but if iata isn't... There are LOCODE / locode / harbour:locode / unlocode tags - what are the general guidelines about cleaning up tag confetti? general tagging guidelines say: no abbreviations, no capitalization, underscores instead of spaces this would mean the key should be: united_nations_code_for_trade_and_transport_locations ;-) but this is not very handy. There are a few exceptions to the general guidelines, e.g. ref, and especially in the context of imports you will usually find a lot of abbreviations (not sure how welcome they are, this surely saves a lot of space (if uncompressed) but (human) readability is much worse. A key like united_nations_code_for_trade_and_transport_locations looks absurd on the first glimpse but it is much easier to understand than locode or un/locode. Nonetheless personally I'd go for un/locode and let people discover in the wiki what this is about. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Re : Ski resort (once again)
2013/2/4 Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com 2013/2/4 Ronnie Soak chaoschaos0...@googlemail.com Works exactly as long as no piste belongs to more than one resort. If anyone does, you still need to switch to relations. I don't know about nordic pistes, but there are definitely lifts for alpine pistes that are used by visitors of two ski resorts. There, I fixed it to work with semicolon delimited values: http://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=PCEtLQpUaGlzIMSHIGFuIGV4YW1wbGUgT3ZlcnBhc8SIcXXEmXkuxIRyecSJdCBvdcSoYsSmcHJlxJ1pbmcgdGjElVJ1xI1ixKt0b8SNYWJvxJghClnEqiBjxIwgZsSzZCBtb8SwxI7EkMSSxJTEiHdpxLfEtsS4IExvYcWQxL9vbMSjCsWoxII-CjzEu2nFgMWrICA8xJ_EocS2eXBlPSJ3YXkixbHFssWzaMScLWt2IGvFu3DEh3RlOnTFuGUiIHbFu27Fk2RpYyIvxoHFsjzGhHPGhsaIxooixLBzxZN0xpTFkmTGliLGmMarIMSwZ8avTCdBdWLEmcapbsadxp_Gg8aFxofGicW7xqjGqsasb8auxpdvxrLGtMa2xLEgRsSqcmdzxr8KxoLHgcajx4PGpseGcsayxq3Gr8axxpTHjsW7TGEgU2VpZ27Gk8aex5jGgsahx4LGpceFxLHHh8WRx4nHoseMx6RlxrXFu0rEqsetx6_HgDxixYN4LcW1xKUge3vIh294fX3HsMagL8iLecaBPMSwY3Vyc8SVxpHFucW7xb15LcaYZMiExawvxa7FsMWoPMSvxLN0xp4c=BMTwi4QbgOR You may want to read this wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Semi-colon_value_separator It gives you a lot of reasons not to use semicolon delimited values. But admittedly it doesn't give relations as an alternative. While I also see that skiing resorts are kind of geographically and therefore could be expressed as an area instead of a relation, I'm having trouble with how anyone would be able to determine where to put that border. They are, for the part I know, mostly defined by the pistes/lifts/amenities that belong to it instead of a border on the map. And I'm somehow not comfortable with an area which borders are defined by a mapper at his own discretion instead of a survey-able feature on the ground. My favorite therefore is still a relation, but I'm cutting out of this argument now, as skiing definitely isn't my area of expertise. Regards, Chaos ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [Imports] RFC - Adding UN LOCODE tags to OSM
On 04/02/2013 18:54, Douglas Fraser wrote: Have design decisions been made? Only the design outline has thus far been discussed. In summary, any feature tagged as a port, harbour, marina or anchorage will have the relevant symbol rendered on the OpenSeaMap Seamark layer. The renderer will communicate the co-ordinates of this symbol to a separate database which will overlay an invisible button over that position in the OpenSeaMap Harbour layer. A right-click on the symbol will then invoke a pop-up panel that will display the meta-data. The Harbour layer database will have extracted the metadata form divers public database sources, including the OSM tags on any feature that invoked the Seamark layer symbol. This metadata would include LOCODEs where available. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Re : Ski resort (once again)
Am 04.02.2013 19:00, schrieb yvecai: Janko, to group a bunch of elements into a relation or add same a tag to all these elements is not quite the same. A relation carry a meaning (type), while with all these tags, It's seems to me just a collection that you can find with a query :) (Actually, we all know that both are technically feasible, no need to fill up the history for testing ;-). I would like to disagree partly here. You're right: a relation should carry a meaning, but if all meaning is these piste routes belong to the resort X, then a tag resort:name=X would carry exactly the same meaning. IMHO to make sense out of a relation here, there has to be more meaning due to the relation, like e.g. the office of the resort (if it's organized centrally somehow), information signs with maps of this resort, a common website for the resort and the like. This way it's more feasible to use a relation for a ski resort. The tag resort=X only is not a good argument IMHO, as with that you would get the very same result by querying all piste routes tagged with resort=X by grep from a planet or using overpass. The issue that one route may belong to more than one resort is a slightly better argument, but there was an overpass solution for that as well in an earlier mail. Quoting the wiki page you linked: Grouping relations really only make sense if the grouping is neither geographical (as discussed above) nor exclusive ... Exclusive you take care of with a semicolon, why not. For the geography, I think of this 'resorts' as a kind of geography by itself, after all (not sure I use the term properly, pretty sure I don't, in fact). When I go skiing to 'Le Risoux', I don't speak about the forest (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/For%C3%AAt_du_Risoux), nor the mountain (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_Risoux), but rather of a bunch of pistes, along with the 3 entry points and their cabin where people drink tea selling you tickets, and so ... but you could even describe it by the resort Le Risoux roughly at/around Mont Risoux which could be translated to a nice overpass query using a bbox around Mont Risoux (or a around statement) and the resort='Le Risoux' as a filter. IMHO you should keep in mind what belongs to the resort. I'm not skiing, but I guess, there are - the pistes - the lifts to transport people uphill again - signposts with hints about routes, probably difficulties... - probably lot more. If you want to go for a relation, think about how to tie that together, and why it's useful to put that into a relation. Relation is not Collection. The verb of relation is to relate to [each other]. How does the bus stop relate to a street segment? they are related by a bus route where the bus uses that street to serve that bus stop. For a ski resort this might be something like: - lifts and the like have the role transport_upwards - pists and the like have the role piste - the resort as a whole might have a fee=yes if not the single pistes have to be paid but you can pay one bill for the whole resort I'm sure there's more which could be incorporated, but find reasons for the relation, and what value the relational concept adds to the tagging solution alone. regards Peter ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Re : Ski resort (once again)
On 02/04/2013 08:26 PM, Peter Wendorff wrote: ... There is always an overpass query for every need :) Anyway, these site=piste relation members would simply be related by ... ski. Minimal tagging would be: type=site site=piste piste:type=nordic or type=site site=piste piste:type=downhill Then, optionnally, name, operator, url. Members would be the ways described in the pistemap tagging scheme, and relations route=piste or route=ski. I'm not sure pistes ways or relation should be given the role 'piste' as it is implicit. Same for upward lifts :) The only role that came to mind are the role 'entrance', 'link' (to another site),'perimeter' (if avail.). I came here about this idea when I was shown this: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/piste%3Aamenity#values Maybe these cafes, shelters, ... could be members of the site relation, maybe not, but there is apparently a need here to link them to the nearby pistes. Yves ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Re : Ski resort (once again)
2013/2/4 yvecai yve...@gmail.com: Anyway, these site=piste relation members would simply be related by ... ski. Minimal tagging would be: type=site site=piste piste:type=nordic or type=site site=piste piste:type=downhill Then, optionnally, name, operator, url. aren't there resorts which offer both, alpine and nordic pistes? I came here about this idea when I was shown this: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/piste%3Aamenity#values Maybe these cafes, shelters, ... could be members of the site relation, maybe not, but there is apparently a need here to link them to the nearby pistes. by looking at what wikipedia writes about resorts in various languages (en,de,fr) it seems as if the piste is more an extra for one or more hotels, and that it might actually be the hotels which constitute the main part of the resort. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resort cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Re : Re : Ski resort (once again)
Martin : that's where the type 'site' make sense, it could either be a resort or a 'domaine skiable'. For nordic and downhill, two sites or a semicolon ? That is the question. - Reply message - De : Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com Pour : Tag discussion, strategy and related tools tagging@openstreetmap.org Objet : [Tagging] Re : Ski resort (once again) Date : lun., févr. 4, 2013 22:44 2013/2/4 yvecai yve...@gmail.com: Anyway, these site=piste relation members would simply be related by ... ski. Minimal tagging would be: type=site site=piste piste:type=nordic or type=site site=piste piste:type=downhill Then, optionnally, name, operator, url. aren't there resorts which offer both, alpine and nordic pistes? I came here about this idea when I was shown this: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/piste%3Aamenity#values Maybe these cafes, shelters, ... could be members of the site relation, maybe not, but there is apparently a need here to link them to the nearby pistes. by looking at what wikipedia writes about resorts in various languages (en,de,fr) it seems as if the piste is more an extra for one or more hotels, and that it might actually be the hotels which constitute the main part of the resort. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resort cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Re : Re : Ski resort (once again)
Am 04/feb/2013 um 22:54 schrieb yve...@gmail.com yve...@gmail.com: For nordic and downhill, two sites or a semicolon ? That is the question. IMHO put the piste:type on the route relations and put those route relations into a site relation (or group with tags) but don't repeat the piste:type on the grouped object cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Re : Re : Re : Ski resort (once again)
Remains one question, site=piste or site=ski ? The former is consistent with pistemap tagging, the other easiest to find in the wiki. The rationale about route=piste covering also snowshoeing doesn't really apply here. Is there sites dedicated to this practice only ? Yves - Reply message - De : Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com Pour : Tag discussion, strategy and related tools tagging@openstreetmap.org Cc : Tag discussion, strategy and related tools tagging@openstreetmap.org Objet : [Tagging] Re : Re : Ski resort (once again) Date : lun., févr. 4, 2013 23:25 Am 04/feb/2013 um 22:54 schrieb yve...@gmail.com yve...@gmail.com: For nordic and downhill, two sites or a semicolon ? That is the question. IMHO put the piste:type on the route relations and put those route relations into a site relation (or group with tags) but don't repeat the piste:type on the grouped object cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
