Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Remove FRom List
On 3 Oct 2008, at 16:38, Ed wrote: Please remove me from this mailing list. Please use the link at the bottom of every message, http:// lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk , to remove yourself. Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Cloudmade
Another example: I could take a planet dump, make a derivated product, and *not* release it into the public. You could then buy it from me, and you would *not* be bound to release it to the public for free. You could, though, possibly lowering the possibilities of me selling a second copy for money (depending on the novelty of my product). Thanks for this explanation, and for the other responses, I'm now a bit happier! I had sort of assumed that share alike meant, well, sharing on the same terms. Presumably then using a OSM data to produce travel directions is all fine if the end point coordinates are known. If, other the other hand, the start and end points (sorry, this is going to get UK specific) are postcodes and the coordinates derived from Code-Point then the route will be derived from both Ordnance Survey data and OSM data. In this situation using the route internally would be OK, but distributing it outside of an organisation would be impossible (because of OS copyright?) Or would it the recipient just be unable to exercise their CC-By-SA rights? ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Cloudmade
On 3 Oct 2008, at 14:39, Adrian wrote: I could tell you about our plans for ice cream gloves but I think this does it better: The difference being that you are planning on trading off of the back of the goodwill of many other people. I don't think it is unreasonable for those people to ask for reassurance that you are planning to respect their rights. The use of that phrase 'trading off of the back of the goodwill of many people' feels a little pejorative to me. We're not doing anything anyone else could not do. We're not attempting a CDDB. In fact we're doing much the same as many, many other firms such as Canonical or RedHat. It would be totally ridiculous, wrong, bone-heading and suicidal for us not to respect the rights in OSM. Of course we do and will. And of course we want to help OSM as much as possible, which is why we do things like sponsor the conference. Cloudmade could have responded when I asked directly rather than ignore me and this thread would have been unnecessary. You've jumped to the conclusion that we've ignored you. I'm sure if you took a step back and realised that we're a busy and growing company that we have many demands on our time, and this was simply overlooked. Best Steve ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Cloudmade
I'm sort of taking offence at your implied suggestion that there is one group of people who give to the project and another group, among whom you seem to count Cloudmade and would probably also count Geofabrik, of people who take from the project to make a business. I'm sorry to have given that impression. I very much appreciate the effort that Steve, Nick and everyone else has put into OSM, and I hope that they, and you, are successful in making a profit from that effort. This thread came about because I misunderstood the CC-By-SA licence and because I perceived Cloudmade couldn't be bothered to address my concerns. In the commercial world the data providers would take months pulling apart a reseller's business plan. I think the OSM contributors are due, morally if not legally, some of that respect. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
SteveC steve at asklater.com writes: On 1 Oct 2008, at 11:01, Ulf Mehlig wrote: Hello Frederik, thanks for your answer. The coordinate display at www.informationfreeway.org is what I was looking for. Wouldn't it be possible to integrate this function into the main OpenStreetMap site? I think this would definitely improve the attractiveness of the map display (even more, if degree-minute-second based coordinates would appear, too -- for many people, the decimal coordinates are not what they're used to). Just demonstrably not true. Most people don't know what co-ordinates are or care that they don't know. It would just clutter the map and make us look less usable. I could well imagine that there are people who would like to feed the coordinates of some place they have found from the OSM map into their GPS for navigating. Not that the coordinates need to be visible all the time. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the Data pane on openstreetmap.org
Dan wrote: Just some thoughts on how to extend that functionality to be of more use to a wider range of people, for monitoring changes to the map in areas they know. I use http://www.itoworld.com/product/osm which sounds like it offers much of what you're suggesting, unless I've misunderstood. Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Correcting DOT bridge coordinates
Hi, I have taken US DOT bridge condition appraisal data and created a regionated KML visualization: see post at http://www.thedaysarenumbered.com . However, almost all bridges are not geolocated correctly. I wonder if someone can recommend a way to use OpenStreetMap to edit the bridge information so that, on one hand, the bridges are added to the map if they are not there already, and on the other hand, so that the corrected bridge coordinates could be extracted and given back to DOT (as a way of saying thank you)? I got somewhat contradictory advice on IRC. So far I gathered that it's technically possible to just import the 180k entries into the base layer (the total bridge count is actually 700k, I'm just showing the lowest quartile). However, connecting the uploaded bridges to the real ones (if those are present) may not happen for a while, so the map will become littered. Automatically matching the bridges will hardly work in most cases. I'd prefer to add bridges to a hidden layer first and only push them to the base layer once data are verified. BTW, I was pleasantly surprised when the OSM California road dataset proved to be much better than the one the state of California provides. Thanks, Simon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the Data pane on openstreetmap.org
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Ed Loach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan wrote: Just some thoughts on how to extend that functionality to be of more use to a wider range of people, for monitoring changes to the map in areas they know. I use http://www.itoworld.com/product/osm which sounds like it offers much of what you're suggesting, unless I've misunderstood. OSM Mapper does offer all of this (and much more!), I was just thinking it'd be a nice incremental improvement to the data that we have in the main site already. It'd be one way of giving attributions for a certain area, for example. Dan -- Dan Karran [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.dankarran.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Code of conduct for automated (mass-) edits
Nick Barnes wrote: Frederik Ramm wrote: One example to which I took exception is ... changing Strasse in the name to Straße, which is the correct spelling (but nonetheless Strasse is often found on signs). Straße may well be the correct spelling in German speaking countries, but it certainly isn't in the UK. (e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.7998lon=-1.75262zoom=17layers=B000FTF). Slightly OT, but it's not even valid for German speaking countries. Switzerland doesn't even have the ß letter, so it uses Strasse as correct and proper spelling. spaetz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Code of conduct for automated (mass-) edits
Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Frederik Ramm wrote: I am in favour of setting up a code of conduct for automated edits. Hi Frederik, while i have full understanding and sympathize with your approach, I am doubtful about its outcome. Those who will read and follow the code of conduct are not those who will blindly break stuff. Those who don't think through their actions and do a 30 line script in python/PHP/... that breaks stuff will break things, and they won't read through the code of conduct anyway. Same with a type of robots.txt tag on nodes. Those adhering to those conventions are not the ones who would break things. Still, can't hurt so why not explicitly document stuff... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Code of conduct for automated (mass-) edits
To get back to the issue of a bot running in a specific country : Let's say the vast majority of occurrences of Strasse are spelling mistakes and let's say there are a few occurrences of Strasse where it is not a spelling mistake, like a surname. Should we run the bot ? -- Spaeth wrote Those who don't think through their actions and do a 30 line script in python/PHP/... that breaks stuff will break things, and they won't read through the code of conduct anyway. I agree with you and let me explain why I do not think it's a big issue : I often install free software on my computer (proprietary and FOSS, poorly documented and well documented, reviewed and unreviewed) and I have no idea if that software will waste my time, open a massive security hole or even worse, do something malicious. And I expect the same of others, e.g. gosmore users. At least the OSM data structure is so simple, that we have so many ways to fight the bot problem : * Statistical detection of bots. From the output of my awk script I can deduce that 'DaBear' has edited an unhumanly number of objects during October and is most likely the cause of this thread. * Tools for targeted reverts. * Responding with simple server changes *when necessary*, like banning users, limits to upload sizes, Captcha on signup etc. On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Sebastian Spaeth [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Nick Barnes wrote: Frederik Ramm wrote: One example to which I took exception is ... changing Strasse in the name to Straße, which is the correct spelling (but nonetheless Strasse is often found on signs). Straße may well be the correct spelling in German speaking countries, but it certainly isn't in the UK. (e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.7998lon=-1.75262zoom=17layers=B000FTF ). Slightly OT, but it's not even valid for German speaking countries. Switzerland doesn't even have the ß letter, so it uses Strasse as correct and proper spelling. spaetz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Code of conduct for automated (mass-) edits
Hi, Sebastian Spaeth wrote: Those who will read and follow the code of conduct are not those who will blindly break stuff. Those who don't think through their actions and do a 30 line script in python/PHP/... that breaks stuff will break things, and they won't read through the code of conduct anyway. Well. Most people running a bot have a certain interest of helping or improving OSM. The rules they build into their bots are often based on discussions on the mailing list or suggestions found on Wiki pages. So they *do* read stuff before they act, and they *want* to do it right. The aim of that code of conduct is to give people a better idea of what we think is right. Many come from a strong IT background and tend to spend little or no time on thinking about the social component their bots might have - the respect the work of others part. I want the code of conduct to have a status like Map Features has - it is not something you *have* to follow, not a strict rule and has not been voted upon by anybody, but if you *do* adhere to it then you're less likely to encounter problems. This is all based on positive thinking, assuming that people are basically well-meaning. I'll leave it to others to deal with those who are not ;-) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] vandolism on OSM
Check out this Chicago area totally messed up by user: Mekhyl http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.9626lon=-87.8045zoom=14layers=0B00FTF What to do about this problem?? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] really minor Mapnik issue
Hi, I just saw the name of a golf course in Salzburg, Austria [0] which shows a small (for Mapnik, but really big typographical) error. The dash in the name is drawn as the first sign in a line, which is really ugly. It doesn't even make any sense to draw it like that, since the last line (the line with the dash) is the longest line, so there would have been enough space in the previous line for the dash, without increasing the size of the texts bounding box further than necessary. Anyway, in my opinion the BB doesn't even matter, because the dash should *never* be the first sign in a line. Don't get me wrong, it's only a minor issue, but it's really ugly, and if it would be easy to fix, I'd appreciate that. If it's not easy, it should be kept in mind, but I don't think such typographical errors are very often found on the map, so it wouldn't need a high priority. cheers, Norbert [0] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=47.71974mlon=13.06424zoom=17layers=B000FTF smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandolism on OSM
2008/10/3 Nicholas Vetrovec [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out this Chicago area totally messed up by user: Mekhyl http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.9626lon=-87.8045zoom=14layers=0B00FTF What to do about this problem?? Wouldn't call it vandalism, just an accident. I believe their is a role back option, easy enough to revert. I'd drop the guy a message, letting him know his mistake, so that he can be more careful in future. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandolism on OSM
On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 02:51:01AM -0700, Nicholas Vetrovec wrote: Check out this Chicago area totally messed up by user: Mekhyl http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.9626lon=-87.8045zoom=14layers=0B00FTF What to do about this problem?? Reversing these actual changes, I'm sure someone can dig into. But we'll need a more permanent measure against vandalism. Something that'll make it easy to reverse things. An idea I've had, is to add revised-tags to OSM data. Which means that 1) You can choose to check out only the stable map, or 2) You can choose the development version. But this isn't at all gonna be easy, we need to devise a plan to make it as little hassle as possible to review OSM data and put a quality stamp on it, and to diff the area between the last revised tag and what exists today, see if the changes looks good, and then just approve it. And yes: I know - I should sit down and code it :) This *is* a proposal, and I'm no coder. And I also know that a fair amount of people will disagree, but unless we put up a way to avoid random vandalism to pollute the production set of data, noone is gonna dare use our data to anything except small things that can be manually verified. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
On 3 Oct 2008, at 07:06, Jukka Rahkonen wrote: SteveC steve at asklater.com writes: On 1 Oct 2008, at 11:01, Ulf Mehlig wrote: Hello Frederik, thanks for your answer. The coordinate display at www.informationfreeway.org is what I was looking for. Wouldn't it be possible to integrate this function into the main OpenStreetMap site? I think this would definitely improve the attractiveness of the map display (even more, if degree-minute-second based coordinates would appear, too -- for many people, the decimal coordinates are not what they're used to). Just demonstrably not true. Most people don't know what co-ordinates are or care that they don't know. It would just clutter the map and make us look less usable. I could well imagine that there are people who would like to feed the coordinates of some place they have found from the OSM map into their GPS for navigating. Not that the coordinates need to be visible all the time. For that you can use the permalink to get the latitude and longitude. That's what I do on a regular basis. By the time you know what latitude and longitude is, you will know what a permalink is. Shaun smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Merkaartor] A few interface notes
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 11:10 PM, Matias D'Ambrosio [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Thursday 02 October 2008 05:33:14 you wrote: Woaw, dense post ;-) Let's try to summarize: Yeah, sorry, I didn't think each item was worth a mail by itself. - Is it possible to download just items visible at low zoom levels Short answer: No. The OSM API is all or nothing. OSMXAPI can do selective downloads for low zoom levels: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Osmxapi Long answer: For this, I just enable Mapnik (ot [EMAIL PROTECTED]) as the image layer, then I know where I am, but it requires connectivity. The other way is to work with OSB and the World OSB manager. It allows to download a number of regions locally. It supports low zoom reduction and is quite memory efficient. If you want more details, I'll try to make up some doc... Jut be sure to download up-to-date data from OSM before editing. Thanks, I figured I could use the mapnik layer soon after I sent that mail *hits self on forehead*. - Keyboard shortcuts: I committed just 2 days ago a shortcut editor. That, I guess, solves the issue. Excellent! Having better defaults would be, well, better, though ;-) - Download more: Prevents having multiple download layers. If you move outside your initial download area, just download more to have current data in the current download layer. Additionally, is the equivalent of download-viewport without the dialog. Aaah, would be nice to be able to tell that from the UI :) Maybe rename download viewport to current layer or similar? I guess I'll start using it now that I know what it does (I hate having a zillion layers). - Would it be possible to shade areas over time In what use case? MDC, you leave Merkkartor open several days long, or ...? Yes, exactly, though hardly a priority. Not worth the effort at this point, I guess. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandolism on OSM
Hi, vegard wrote: But we'll need a more permanent measure against vandalism. Something that'll make it easy to reverse things. We have some good changes in store with API 0.6. An idea I've had, is to add revised-tags to OSM data. Which is what Wikipedia is currently experimenting with. But note that our most potent weapon against vandalism is the ease and speed with which it can be undone. unless we put up a way to avoid random vandalism to pollute the production set of data, noone is gonna dare use our data Every day someone says noone is going to use our data unless I don't really take that seriously because reality proves them wrong. If anyone wants to have a strictly quality controlled OSM they can easily do that and sell it as a paid service. But I believe it is going to be much more expensive than just buying a set of TeleAtlas data, and will have all the disadvantages of commercial geodata (errors take long to get fixed, data is a year old, etc.) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Code of conduct for automated (mass-) edits
This is all based on positive thinking, assuming that people are basically well-meaning. Agree, most mistakes in my area are not vandalism, but just mistakes. I know I made many. Simply informing the mapper the problem is good enough. And sometimes that mapper maybe the most prolific. This may not be a good analogy, but I often consult wikipedia eventhough a lot there are lot of vandalism/crappy articles there. I believe a code of conduct is sufficient in the spirit and principles of OSM. I'll leave it to others to deal with those who are not ;-) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- |-|--| | __.-._ |Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great. -Yoda | | '-._7' |Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden| | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com| | _)_/LI |-|--| ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Merkaartor] A few interface notes
OSMXAPI can do selective downloads for low zoom levels: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Osmxapi In what part of the spec do you see that, exactly? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Merkaartor] A few interface notes
Hi, Chris Browet wrote: OSMXAPI can do selective downloads for low zoom levels: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Osmxapi In what part of the spec do you see that, exactly? Section 4.1, Tag predicates. Do not confuse the OSM API with OSMXapi. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Merkaartor] A few interface notes
On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 12:30:05PM +0200, Chris Browet wrote: OSMXAPI can do selective downloads for low zoom levels: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Osmxapi In what part of the spec do you see that, exactly? Not sure if it is a good idea to mix data from osmxapi in an editor to upload to the main api though. cu bart ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandolism on OSM
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 7:24 PM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, vegard wrote: But we'll need a more permanent measure against vandalism. Something that'll make it easy to reverse things. We have some good changes in store with API 0.6. An idea I've had, is to add revised-tags to OSM data. Which is what Wikipedia is currently experimenting with. But note that our most potent weapon against vandalism is the ease and speed with which it can be undone. unless we put up a way to avoid random vandalism to pollute the production set of data, noone is gonna dare use our data Every day someone says noone is going to use our data unless I don't really take that seriously because reality proves them wrong. If anyone wants to have a strictly quality controlled OSM they can easily do that and sell it as a paid service. But I believe it is going to be much more expensive than just buying a set of TeleAtlas data, and will have all the disadvantages of commercial geodata (errors take long to get fixed, data is a year old, etc.) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Here is my proposal for Wikipedia. I hope they someday adopt it. Have a variety of tags concerning quality and let people filter with those tags. Anyone can form a group and each group would have its own tags that only that group can change. In this specific case some people can form a no vandalism group and tag data that looks to be vandalism free. People looking at the data could then filter based on the reputation of the groups. -- http://bowlad.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Merkaartor] A few interface notes
Yeah, I know that. But in what does it answers selective downloads for low zoom levels? 2008/10/3 Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Chris Browet wrote: OSMXAPI can do selective downloads for low zoom levels: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Osmxapi In what part of the spec do you see that, exactly? Section 4.1, Tag predicates. Do not confuse the OSM API with OSMXapi. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Merkaartor] A few interface notes
On 3 Oct 2008, at 11:16, bvh wrote: On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 12:30:05PM +0200, Chris Browet wrote: OSMXAPI can do selective downloads for low zoom levels: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Osmxapi In what part of the spec do you see that, exactly? Not sure if it is a good idea to mix data from osmxapi in an editor to upload to the main api though. That won't be a problem when the version tag is exposed in version 0.6 of the main api. It will mean that uploads will be rejected if they don't have the most recent version, which can then be easily downloaded. Shaun smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Shaun McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On 3 Oct 2008, at 07:06, Jukka Rahkonen wrote: SteveC steve at asklater.com writes: On 1 Oct 2008, at 11:01, Ulf Mehlig wrote: Hello Frederik, thanks for your answer. The coordinate display at www.informationfreeway.org is what I was looking for. Wouldn't it be possible to integrate this function into the main OpenStreetMap site? I think this would definitely improve the attractiveness of the map display (even more, if degree-minute-second based coordinates would appear, too -- for many people, the decimal coordinates are not what they're used to). Just demonstrably not true. Most people don't know what co-ordinates are or care that they don't know. It would just clutter the map and make us look less usable. I could well imagine that there are people who would like to feed the coordinates of some place they have found from the OSM map into their GPS for navigating. Not that the coordinates need to be visible all the time. For that you can use the permalink to get the latitude and longitude. That's what I do on a regular basis. By the time you know what latitude and longitude is, you will know what a permalink is. I knew about latitude and longitude about 25 years before hyperlinks were even invented, let alone permalinks. Although I'm slightly suprised by the fact that google has roughly twice as many hits for permalink than for longitude. 80n Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Merkaartor] A few interface notes
Hi, Chris Browet wrote: Yeah, I know that. But in what does it answers selective downloads for low zoom levels? You're right, it doesn't give you all you need for zoom level x - it can only give you all you ask for. The user has to know what s/he wants for a given zoom level. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandolism on OSM
PHILLIP BARNETT SERVER MANAGER 200 GRAY'S INN ROAD LONDON WC1X 8XZ UNITED KINGDOM T +44 (0)20 7430 4474 F E [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://WWW.ITN.CO.UK P Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frederik Ramm Sent: 03 October 2008 11:25 To: vegard Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] vandolism on OSM Hi, vegard wrote: But we'll need a more permanent measure against vandalism. Something that'll make it easy to reverse things. But note that our most potent weapon against vandalism is the ease and speed with which it can be undone. Frederick, That's only the case for OBVIOUS vandalism or accident, as in the OP, that can be seen in a casual 'fly-over' the map. What about subtle vandalism (renaming random streets, changing one-way directions etc) Even in areas that I have personally mapped, I doubt that I'd be able to tell at a glance that this had happened without digging out my original notes and comparing street by street(in effect, remapping the area) which I wouldn't do without a huge visual clue. Cheers Please Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Independent Television News Limited unless specifically stated. This email and any files attached are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that to ensure regulatory compliance and for the protection of our clients and business, we may monitor and read messages sent to and from our systems. Thank You. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] - RFC - Motorway_link implies oneway=??
On Thursday 02 October 2008, Alex Mauer wrote: Ben Laenen wrote: There are three options: 1. make no assumptions: This means every single motorway_link needs to have a oneway=yes or oneway=no (or oneway=-1). A pain for taggers, and doesn't help makers of routing applications who still need to handle the case where there is no oneway tag. Given the changing implication of oneway=yes this is actually the only option left -- like it or not, painful or not -- since they could be added by people who read that it was implied and by people who read it wasn't. Nah, it's not that bad. It just means that the only data currently in there is built on the following: Either the person assumed there was no implied value for one-way, in which case they would have explicitly tagged all of them. Or they read that oneway=yes was implied, in which case they would have only tagged the oneway=no and oneway=-1. Then read the example on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Tag:highway=motorway_link once. It says: The green way in this example can then be a simple junction withhighway=motorway_link without the oneway tag, as it is supposed to be used in both directions. When you read that, you don't assume there's no implicated oneway value. It says that by default it's oneway=no like with any other road. Note that the implies oneway=yes in the right column wasn't added on the page until June this year. Only from that point onwards the page started contradicting itself. Before that it clearly said oneway=no is implied. Hence the only option is to revisit all motorway links that don't have a oneway value and add it. After that we may have a oneway=yes implication. Ben ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandolism on OSM
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Barnett, Phillip [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: vegard wrote: But we'll need a more permanent measure against vandalism. Something that'll make it easy to reverse things. But note that our most potent weapon against vandalism is the ease and speed with which it can be undone. Frederick, That's only the case for OBVIOUS vandalism or accident, as in the OP, that can be seen in a casual 'fly-over' the map. What about subtle vandalism (renaming random streets, changing one-way directions etc) Even in areas that I have personally mapped, I doubt that I'd be able to tell at a glance that this had happened without digging out my original notes and comparing street by street(in effect, remapping the area) which I wouldn't do without a huge visual clue. Well, none of the schemes proposed so far actually deal with the case of subtle vandalism. They're all assuming it's possible to determine whether an edit is good or not. The only fool proof way of doing that is to send someone to check it out in reality, which is going to be a fairly intractable problem. The obvious vandalism is the low hanging fruit, and the obvious place to start if you're aiming for a more stable map. I'd imagine people will do this for smaller areas in a similar fashion to how we handle the coastlines for the cyclemap (ie: we grab the data every so often, and just keep the old data if the new looks too broken in a critical place -- at that point I usually try and fix it of course). Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] metered parking
On Friday 03 October 2008 05:36:50 you wrote: Your wish touches several unresolved topics of OSM tagging. b) Tagging of time-dependant features. Your example is easy, but it simply is not enough to have a tag for time_start and time_end, as there might be the weekday influencing the times. Indeed, I forgot it's different on weekends. Tagging of time intervals is already solved in opening_hours tag: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Key:opening_hours. You could use this schema in your case, what about parking_metered_hours=... ? I think that this: metered_parking=opening hours scheme makes more sense than having a boolean and then a tag just for the time. I'll propose it in talk-ar as such. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Process for agreeing the new licence
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:legal-talk- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Fairhurst Sent: 03 October 2008 13:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Spam] Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Process for agreeing the new licence Peter Miller wrote: I do understand that there is now finally energy within the Foundation to push this licence though. SteveC has said that he is on the case and that we should await further details which will be good to see and I do hope that there will soon be more indication on the list about this progress. I personally want to work with the Foundation to complete this work given that there is a lot to do and it shouldn't all be left to the Foundation directors. They are responsible for the work, but need help. Agreed: indeed I met Andy last night and reiterated that I'm very happy to help with licensing issues if OSMF would like me to. Great I agree with the above sentiments; I don't want to reopen the debate, however I am not aware that there is a human-readable document describing what the licence should achieve as that is what I have written. Richard: Can I assume that you are in agreement with the 'brief brief' or do you want to suggest any changes? It seems to tally with what I'd think, yes; but as I say, I'm happy with the revised (spring 2008) ODBL anyway so don't really need a summary or rewrite. Jordan's approach to licence writing is to make the core licence human-readable anyway, and I'd agree that's a good approach to take (as opposed to the Creative Commons approach of having two documents, a human-readable summary and an impenetrable legal code). ODBL is admirably clear. You are obviously more adept at reading machine code than me! Seriously, I think that most potential users would find it hard to decode what the current draft licence would mean for them, I do however agree that the legal text should be as easy to understand as possible. As such I think the twin document will be necessary, one paraphrases the main points in a few words, the other is the legally binding contract and is ideally 1 page or 1.5 pages max; however we can decide on whether we need the summary as the process continues. Peter cheers Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] - RFC - Motorway_link implies oneway=??
On 10/3/2008 6:27 AM, Ben Laenen wrote: Then read the example on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Tag:highway=motorway_link once. It says: The green way in this example can then be a simple junction withhighway=motorway_link without the oneway tag, as it is supposed to be used in both directions. When you read that, you don't assume there's no implicated oneway value. It says that by default it's oneway=no like with any other road. Fair enough, though as far as I know it's never stated anywhere else that oneway=no is the default. Certainly it's not on the Key:highway or the Key:oneway page. Note that the implies oneway=yes in the right column wasn't added on the page until June this year. Only from that point onwards the page started contradicting itself. Before that it clearly said oneway=no is implied. Only since October 2007. So there's a seven month window in which it could have been taken to be oneway=no by default, though that was never stated clearly. Hence the only option is to revisit all motorway links that don't have a oneway value and add it. After that we may have a oneway=yes implication. It's really not the only option. We can also just accept that there are a few motorway_link tags that are wrong. Which there probably will be no matter what. I'd much rather have sane defaults and a slight inaccuracy then have to deal with insane defaults forever just because of a short window created by someone who made some bad assumptions. -Alex Mauer hawke. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
Using OSM Mapper it is already possible to identify who is changing data within an defined area. I use this to monitor for changes in areas I care about using RSS setting up an RSS feed to check for all changes made by people other than me in the area. We developed the functionally in the product because it was needed. More about it here: http://itoworld.blogspot.com/2008/07/new-osm-mapper-for-openstreetmap.html We can't currently identify deleted features, and this is a limitation that we will overcome soon, but we can check for name changes and the like. Since using it I have occasionally spotted unintentional problems produced by people who are trying to help, but have spotted no deliberated areas in my area. Regards, Peter Miller www.itoworld.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barnett, Phillip Sent: 03 October 2008 12:26 To: 'Frederik Ramm'; vegard Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] vandolism on OSM PHILLIP BARNETT SERVER MANAGER 200 GRAY'S INN ROAD LONDON WC1X 8XZ UNITED KINGDOM T +44 (0)20 7430 4474 F E [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://WWW.ITN.CO.UK P Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frederik Ramm Sent: 03 October 2008 11:25 To: vegard Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] vandolism on OSM Hi, vegard wrote: But we'll need a more permanent measure against vandalism. Something that'll make it easy to reverse things. But note that our most potent weapon against vandalism is the ease and speed with which it can be undone. Frederick, That's only the case for OBVIOUS vandalism or accident, as in the OP, that can be seen in a casual 'fly-over' the map. What about subtle vandalism (renaming random streets, changing one-way directions etc) Even in areas that I have personally mapped, I doubt that I'd be able to tell at a glance that this had happened without digging out my original notes and comparing street by street(in effect, remapping the area) which I wouldn't do without a huge visual clue. Cheers Please Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Independent Television News Limited unless specifically stated. This email and any files attached are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that to ensure regulatory compliance and for the protection of our clients and business, we may monitor and read messages sent to and from our systems. Thank You. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Remove FRom List
Please remove me from this mailing list. ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-talk] temporary=yes tag
While discussing leisure=bullring in the talk-es (spanish speaking list), the issue came up of bullrings that are only set up on certain occasions (holidays and other special events). This is also common for fairs, circuses, etc. So we thought something like a tag temporary=yes/no would be nice for them, I searched in the wiki and found nothing of the sort, is something of the sort available? opening_hours is not fit for this, obviously. I'm not sure temporary is the right word (specially since it might give the idea that the OSM tag is temporary, which is not intended). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Motorways and Motorway_link
I stand corrected on the two direction sections BUT the examples you give ARE motorway_links rather than motorway. Most of the links like this that I frequent have now been divided with a barrier. And a word of warning the 'Maximum speed' for a single carriageway road in the UK is 60 MPH. This applies to these links up to the 'start of motorway' sign which may not be actually at the end of the link - I've seen traffic cops with speed guns on a couple of roads that merge into the motorway ;) But motorway_link has usually been used to tag sliproads. These aren't sliproads - it's the mainline of the motorway. http://pathetic.org.uk/current/a601m/photos/images/Dsc00055_jpg.jpg The start of motorway sign is at the end of the link where it meets the B-road in the case of the A601(M) - and the end nearest the Walton Summit Industrial Estate in the other example. The 60mph limit for cars on single carriageways do not apply to special roads - which is the legal term for motorways (and one or two other bits of road like the A55 at Conwy - where you'll notice there are 70mph signs rather than the national speed limit sign). Instead, the Motorways Traffic (Speed Limit) Regulations 1974 apply to all motorways - defining the limit to be 70mph for cars - regardless of whether it is single or dual carriageway. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] really minor Mapnik issue
On Fri, 2008-10-03 at 12:02 +0200, Norbert Wenzel wrote: Hi, I just saw the name of a golf course in Salzburg, Austria [0] which shows a small (for Mapnik, but really big typographical) error. The dash in the name is drawn as the first sign in a line, which is really ugly. Mapnik has its own development community outside of OSM and you may find it a better place to raise this issue. It doesn't even make any sense to draw it like that, since the last line (the line with the dash) is the longest line, so there would have been enough space in the previous line for the dash, without increasing the size of the texts bounding box further than necessary. The current algorithm splits the line at the first space after it exceeds the configured width. Your suggestion sounds reasonable but you need to find a C++ programmer willing to develop it. Anyway, in my opinion the BB doesn't even matter, because the dash should *never* be the first sign in a line. Don't get me wrong, it's only a minor issue, but it's really ugly, and if it would be easy to fix, I'd appreciate that. If it's not easy, it should be kept in mind, but I don't think such typographical errors are very often found on the map, so it wouldn't need a high priority. It starts getting even more complex once you start having to worry about which Unicode characters are appropriate places to split a line. One possibility might be to defer the work to a library like: http://vimgadgets.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/vimgadgets/common/tools/linebreak/ Jon cheers, Norbert [0] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=47.71974mlon=13.06424zoom=17layers=B000FTF ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Cloudmade
Hopefully someone here can explain this for me. Cloudmade have received a large amount of venture capital funding for their OSM based projects. Public details are a little vague on Cloudmade's plans, and they haven't responded to my request for information, so this is a little bit guesswork, but they seem to be intending to make OSM toolkits and derived data products. The legal FAQ says that derived data products (that are distributed) must be made available under the terms of the licence - I interpret that to mean for free, am I badly wrong? That discounts a revenue stream from derived data products. Similarly anyone using Cloudmade's toolkits to make derived products and then distributing them, even if it's just a paper map, would have to distribute the derived product for free too, so there doesn't seem much of a market for the tools. Against that background I look at the OSM Foundation members and the Cloudmade founders and start to feel a little nervous that the same people that are driving licence change and have access to the database that the rest of us contributors don't are somehow trying to make money from OSM. ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-talk] Mapping party (Micro / 1 day): Abingdon, Oxfordshire, UK; 25th Oct 2008
[[Cc:ed to OSM talk]] I've started to organise a Micro Mapping Party for the town of Abingdon, near Oxford. It's a medium-ish town which a handful of people can probably get polished off in a day, hopefully. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Abingdon Full details will be appended to the page above and on the Upcoming page as they emerge over the next week or so: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/1170074 Hope to see some familiar and new faces there. Come along :) -- Andrew Chadwick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Motorways and Motorway_link
Richard Bullock wrote: I stand corrected on the two direction sections BUT the examples you give ARE motorway_links rather than motorway. Most of the links like this that I frequent have now been divided with a barrier. And a word of warning the 'Maximum speed' for a single carriageway road in the UK is 60 MPH. This applies to these links up to the 'start of motorway' sign which may not be actually at the end of the link - I've seen traffic cops with speed guns on a couple of roads that merge into the motorway ;) But motorway_link has usually been used to tag sliproads. These aren't sliproads - it's the mainline of the motorway. http://pathetic.org.uk/current/a601m/photos/images/Dsc00055_jpg.jpg The start of motorway sign is at the end of the link where it meets the B-road in the case of the A601(M) - and the end nearest the Walton Summit Industrial Estate in the other example. No argument with that. Except that These roads LINK the minor roads with the Main route of the motorway. They do not FORM the main route of the motorway since you still have to merge with the main traffic flow on the through route. The 60mph limit for cars on single carriageways do not apply to special roads - which is the legal term for motorways (and one or two other bits of road like the A55 at Conwy - where you'll notice there are 70mph signs rather than the national speed limit sign). Instead, the Motorways Traffic (Speed Limit) Regulations 1974 apply to all motorways - defining the limit to be 70mph for cars - regardless of whether it is single or dual carriageway. My comment about the speed limit was that the 60 applies ( or even less if a local limit applies on the approaching roads! ) UP TO the start of motorway sign and some of these link roads that is simply not at the 'start' of the road. At some point, if correct speed indication is to be provided for route planning, then the position of the actual start point is as important as placing a change of speed limit at the correct point? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Cloudmade
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Adrian wrote: Hopefully someone here can explain this for me. Cloudmade have received a large amount of venture capital funding for their OSM based projects. Public details are a little vague on Cloudmade's plans, and they haven't responded to my request for information, so this is a little bit guesswork, but they seem to be intending to make OSM toolkits and derived data products. The legal FAQ says that derived data products (that are distributed) must be made available under the terms of the licence - I interpret that to mean for free, am I badly wrong? BY-SA (OSM's current license) says that when you distribute derivatives, you have to make them available under the BY-SA license. You're allowed to sell the derivatives for whatever price you want, as long as you use the BY-SA license, which says that people who purchase it can distribute it for free to others. Denver -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://getfiregpg.org iD8DBQFI5nA/q02IUA/pi34RAg3kAJ4pfvxHI4FIia/AYxHFm/hRhCkomgCfWkQK l/auNLY3B0xNLObgvxKM6qk= =ruUt -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Cloudmade
I'm not too worried. Cloudmade received something like $2m at a time when it was easy to raise money. So those investors may realistically expect to make only tens of millions of dollars over the next few years. Compare that with the $10b odd that TeleAtlas and NavTech sold for at the same time. So Cloudmade do not need to do anything sneaky to make money. If they are the first and only company to do a variety of things with OSM data add a little bit of value with a little bit of proprietary software they may do just fine. In other words occupy niches that FOSS does not intend to cover. On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Adrian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hopefully someone here can explain this for me. Cloudmade have received a large amount of venture capital funding for their OSM based projects. Public details are a little vague on Cloudmade's plans, and they haven't responded to my request for information, so this is a little bit guesswork, but they seem to be intending to make OSM toolkits and derived data products. The legal FAQ says that derived data products (that are distributed) must be made available under the terms of the licence - I interpret that to mean for free, am I badly wrong? That discounts a revenue stream from derived data products. Similarly anyone using Cloudmade's toolkits to make derived products and then distributing them, even if it's just a paper map, would have to distribute the derived product for free too, so there doesn't seem much of a market for the tools. Against that background I look at the OSM Foundation members and the Cloudmade founders and start to feel a little nervous that the same people that are driving licence change and have access to the database that the rest of us contributors don't are somehow trying to make money from OSM. ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Cloudmade
El Viernes, 3 de Octubre de 2008, Adrian escribió: [...] The legal FAQ says that derived data products (that are distributed) must be made available under the terms of the licence - I interpret that to mean for free, am I badly wrong? Wrong. Free as in freedom doesn't equal free as in free beer. Let's take ITO's wonderful product, OSM Mapper (http://www.itoworld.com/product/osm) as an example of how this works. ITO basically gets a daily planet dump, and generates pretty graphics from it. Now, ITO could charge some money for the service - rendering the pretty graphics - but the result would fall under the same copyleft license (e.g. the images are CC-by-sa). Another example: I could take a planet dump, make a derivated product, and *not* release it into the public. You could then buy it from me, and you would *not* be bound to release it to the public for free. You could, though, possibly lowering the possibilities of me selling a second copy for money (depending on the novelty of my product). Against that background I look at the OSM Foundation members and the Cloudmade founders and start to feel a little nervous that the same people that are driving licence change and have access to the database that the rest of us contributors don't are somehow trying to make money from OSM. They indeed are. But from a legal point of view there is *nothing* that stops you from following their ways to make money. You have all the data at your disposal, now and in the future, so you can compete with them in fair terms. -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] Proudly running Debian Linux with 2.6.26-1-amd64 kernel, KDE 3.5.9, and PHP 5.2.6-3 generating this signature. Uptime: 21:13:27 up 43 days, 9:09, 4 users, load average: 0.64, 0.80, 0.56 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Cloudmade
Adrian wrote: Hopefully someone here can explain this for me. I'll try! The legal FAQ says that derived data products (that are distributed) must be made available under the terms of the licence - I interpret that to mean for free, am I badly wrong? You are. The licence, like all open source licences, doesn't concern itself with whether you charge or not. What it says is that, when you give someone a derived product, they then have the right to redistribute it under the terms of the licence. This can be for free if you like, or you can charge. Ultimately it will _probably_ gravitate towards free but there's nothing to enforce that. The proposed new licence doesn't change that at all. It simply draws the dividing lines between derived and collective more clearly for data purposes, and makes it easier for us to reintegrate such data into OSM. It's neither weaker nor stronger than CC-BY-SA, just different and, for our purposes, more appropriate. CloudMade's business model is no concern of mine, but plenty of companies have thrived by offering services connected with similarly-licenced software (RedHat and Linux is the most famous example), and CM, I'd guess, see this kind of opportunity with OSM. And good luck to them. Against that background I look at the OSM Foundation members and the Cloudmade founders and start to feel a little nervous that the same people that are driving licence change and have access to the database that the rest of us contributors don't are somehow trying to make money from OSM. I'm one (have long been one) of the people driving licence change, and don't have any interest in CloudMade: in fact on one occasion I actually bristled a lot at something they were proposing (see talk passim, The future of Potlatch). Nor do I have any special access to the database - well, not since I took the SQL out of amf_controller ;) . I've simply seen, as have others, lots of practical problems with the current licence, and believe that the proposed replacement solves most of these. (Bear in mind that Creative Commons, who actually wrote our current licence, would have us dedicate all of OSM's data to the public domain - which, though I like it personally, offers _no_ legalistic safeguards against the sort of thing you're concerned about.) cheers Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] how to prevent osmarender from filling a circular way
Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
hi,
I have the following code:
.golf-yellowhazard {
stroke-width: .2px;
stroke: #f9f605;
stroke-dasharray: 1, 1;
fill: none;
this is supposed to draw a dashed yellow line. But when the line is closed,
the area gets a black fill. How to avoid that?
Hm, have you tried leaving the fill declaration out? As another post
here said it may also be some other css class that also applies to
your element.
What does the actual rule look like?
--
Knut Arne Bjørndal
aka Bob Kåre
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[OSM-talk] Loading img file onto Garmin 60 CSx
I'm having trouble loading a map file onto a Garmin 60CSx for a relative. I've made a file using mkgmap, and loaded it onto the memory card in a folder called Garmin and placing it into it using a card reader. I put the card into the GPS, but it doesn't seem to recognise it as a map. I tried using the USB mass storage mode, and could see the map file in the Garmin file, as it should be according to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mkgmap#Installing Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Thanks! Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Loading img file onto Garmin 60 CSx
On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 08:04:19PM +, David Ebling wrote: I'm having trouble loading a map file onto a Garmin 60CSx for a relative. I've made a file using mkgmap, and loaded it onto the memory card in a folder called Garmin and placing it into it using a card reader. I put the card into the GPS, but it doesn't seem to recognise it as a map. I tried using the USB mass storage mode, and could see the map file in the Garmin file, as it should be according to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mkgmap#Installing Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? For people to debug, you need to: 1) Provide the OSM data you worked from. 2) Provide the resulting .IMG-file. 3) Provide the exact commands and steps to make/install it. I have a 60Csx and regularly make Garmin maps from OSM-data that I use. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Loading img file onto Garmin 60 CSx
Did you call the file 'gmapsupp.img' ? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OSM_Map_On_Garmin#Steps PHILLIP BARNETT SERVER MANAGER 200 GRAY'S INN ROAD LONDON WC1X 8XZ UNITED KINGDOM T +44 (0)20 7430 4474 F E [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://WWW.ITN.CO.UK P Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Ebling Sent: 03 October 2008 21:04 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Loading img file onto Garmin 60 CSx I'm having trouble loading a map file onto a Garmin 60CSx for a relative. I've made a file using mkgmap, and loaded it onto the memory card in a folder called Garmin and placing it into it using a card reader. I put the card into the GPS, but it doesn't seem to recognise it as a map. I tried using the USB mass storage mode, and could see the map file in the Garmin file, as it should be according to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mkgmap#Installing Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Thanks! Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Please Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Independent Television News Limited unless specifically stated. This email and any files attached are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that to ensure regulatory compliance and for the protection of our clients and business, we may monitor and read messages sent to and from our systems. Thank You. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Loading img file onto Garmin 60 CSx
Did you pass the --gmapsupp parameter to Mkgmap and did you copy the resulting gmapsupp.img file to the /garmin directory on the GPS? David Ebling wrote: I'm having trouble loading a map file onto a Garmin 60CSx for a relative. I've made a file using mkgmap, and loaded it onto the memory card in a folder called Garmin and placing it into it using a card reader. I put the card into the GPS, but it doesn't seem to recognise it as a map. I tried using the USB mass storage mode, and could see the map file in the Garmin file, as it should be according to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mkgmap#Installing Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Thanks! Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Cloudmade
El Viernes, 3 de Octubre de 2008, Adrian escribió: Presumably then using a OSM data to produce travel directions is all fine if the end point coordinates are known. If, other the other hand, the start and end points (sorry, this is going to get UK specific) are postcodes and the coordinates derived from Code-Point then the route will be derived from both Ordnance Survey data and OSM data. Well, that depends. See, right now OSM's license (CC-by-sa) and point of view is based on copyright. The upcoming license (ODbL + OFIL) is based on the european database directive, plus the delief that factual data is, um, facts. If your point of view is copyright, then the postcode coordinates are copyrighted by OS (and/or royal mail*); the route would be a derivate product of OS and OSM data. * I don't know the specifics of UK If your point of view is the database directive + facts, then getting the two individual postcode coordinates is something called extraction of a non-substantial part of the data, which is completely allowed. And, the data you've extracted are facts, and thus not subject to copyright. So, you can do whatever you want with those coordinates, no strings attached. You should contact a lawyer, and know OS' point of view about the issue before doing business with these kind of things. IMHO, OSM will be a pioneer by assuming this position. I don't know how OS and other NMAs will respond to the new OSM license and point of view over map data ownership. There will be interesting times ahead, indeed. In this situation using the route internally would be OK, but distributing it outside of an organisation would be impossible (because of OS copyright?) Or would it the recipient just be unable to exercise their CC-By-SA rights? *If* you are assuming that the postcode coordinates are (c) OS, then you couldn't mix them with OSM data, and would be infringing either OS' copyright or a fellow OSM mapper's copyright. In other words, choose your poison: either infringe OS' copyright, or become in breach of the CC-by-sa license. Now, you should weight the risks: Is OS going to sue you for using the postcode coords internally? Is some OSM mapper or the OSMF going to sue you for the same reason? If you assume the database+facts position, then you wouldn't be breaching the CC-by-sa in any way, but the OS *might* think differently, and sue you. Cheers, -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have a place for everything and keep the thing somewhere else; this is not advice, it is merely custom. -- Mark Twain signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Cloudmade
I think most of your questions have been answered by other people already. I could tell you about our plans for ice cream gloves but I think this does it better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkuOuxRD1Bc Best Steve On 3 Oct 2008, at 12:03, Adrian wrote: Hopefully someone here can explain this for me. Cloudmade have received a large amount of venture capital funding for their OSM based projects. Public details are a little vague on Cloudmade's plans, and they haven't responded to my request for information, so this is a little bit guesswork, but they seem to be intending to make OSM toolkits and derived data products. The legal FAQ says that derived data products (that are distributed) must be made available under the terms of the licence - I interpret that to mean for free, am I badly wrong? That discounts a revenue stream from derived data products. Similarly anyone using Cloudmade's toolkits to make derived products and then distributing them, even if it's just a paper map, would have to distribute the derived product for free too, so there doesn't seem much of a market for the tools. Against that background I look at the OSM Foundation members and the Cloudmade founders and start to feel a little nervous that the same people that are driving licence change and have access to the database that the rest of us contributors don't are somehow trying to make money from OSM. ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandolism on OSM
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 8:49 PM, Dave Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Barnett, Phillip [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: vegard wrote: But we'll need a more permanent measure against vandalism. Something that'll make it easy to reverse things. But note that our most potent weapon against vandalism is the ease and speed with which it can be undone. Frederick, That's only the case for OBVIOUS vandalism or accident, as in the OP, that can be seen in a casual 'fly-over' the map. What about subtle vandalism (renaming random streets, changing one-way directions etc) Even in areas that I have personally mapped, I doubt that I'd be able to tell at a glance that this had happened without digging out my original notes and comparing street by street(in effect, remapping the area) which I wouldn't do without a huge visual clue. Well, none of the schemes proposed so far actually deal with the case of subtle vandalism. They're all assuming it's possible to determine whether an edit is good or not. The only fool proof way of doing that is to send someone to check it out in reality, which is going to be a fairly intractable problem. The obvious vandalism is the low hanging fruit, and the obvious place to start if you're aiming for a more stable map. I'd imagine people will do this for smaller areas in a similar fashion to how we handle the coastlines for the cyclemap (ie: we grab the data every so often, and just keep the old data if the new looks too broken in a critical place -- at that point I usually try and fix it of course). Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk I think my idea deals with non-obvious vandalism very well. A user of the data can choose to use data that has only certain tags by certain groups or individuals and therefore have an idea of how accurate that data might be. -- http://bowlad.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandolism on OSM
I think my idea deals with non-obvious vandalism very well. A user of the data can choose to use data that has only certain tags by certain groups or individuals and therefore have an idea of how accurate that data might be. Yes, but in a world of 65000 users you're left with a lot less data. It may be enough for your purpose in which case that's great. For smaller areas it probably works quite well, but I'm fairly sure it'll hit a scalability problem. With OSM as a whole we rely on there being more good guys than bad guys, and that's generally worked so far, but you do have that instability problem in that it can take a while for errors to be detected and corrected. The subtle vandalism is hard to spot because it looks genuine. You only determine it isn't genuine with local knowledge or on the ground observations. That means you can't trust anything until it's been checked out by a trusted member and the more people you bring in as members to hit your coverage goals, the more chance you get compromised and start letting in lower quality data. How much of this is actually a problem depends a lot on what you are actually trying to achieve. Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping party (Micro / 1 day): Abingdon, Oxfordshire, UK; 25th Oct 2008
I believe a couple of my forebears were housed at Abingdon Castle please give my regards to the current occupants--I believe it is owned by monks now...? Wouldn't mind a copy of the family crest if there's one handy! Best wishes, Robert Thomas Wyatt Austin, Texas Andrew Chadwick (mailing lists) wrote: [[Cc:ed to OSM talk]] I've started to organise a Micro Mapping Party for the town of Abingdon, near Oxford. It's a medium-ish town which a handful of people can probably get polished off in a day, hopefully. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Abingdon Full details will be appended to the page above and on the Upcoming page as they emerge over the next week or so: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/1170074 Hope to see some familiar and new faces there. Come along :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Loading img file onto Garmin 60 CSx
Many thanks - that was the problem! I hadn't renamed the file. I'll edit the wiki at some point to make this clearer. Most grateful! Dave --- On Fri, 3/10/08, Barnett, Phillip [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Barnett, Phillip [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] Loading img file onto Garmin 60 CSx To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED], talk@openstreetmap.org talk@openstreetmap.org Date: Friday, 3 October, 2008, 9:40 PM Did you call the file 'gmapsupp.img' ? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OSM_Map_On_Garmin#Steps PHILLIP BARNETT SERVER MANAGER 200 GRAY'S INN ROAD LONDON WC1X 8XZ UNITED KINGDOM T +44 (0)20 7430 4474 F E [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://WWW.ITN.CO.UK P Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Ebling Sent: 03 October 2008 21:04 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Loading img file onto Garmin 60 CSx I'm having trouble loading a map file onto a Garmin 60CSx for a relative. I've made a file using mkgmap, and loaded it onto the memory card in a folder called Garmin and placing it into it using a card reader. I put the card into the GPS, but it doesn't seem to recognise it as a map. I tried using the USB mass storage mode, and could see the map file in the Garmin file, as it should be according to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mkgmap#Installing Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Thanks! Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Please Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Independent Television News Limited unless specifically stated. This email and any files attached are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that to ensure regulatory compliance and for the protection of our clients and business, we may monitor and read messages sent to and from our systems. Thank You. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
Jeffrey wrote: Well, none of the schemes proposed so far actually deal with the case of subtle vandalism. Subtle vandalism will always be the hardest to spot. If it is imagined that it might become a problem, then perhaps uploading a change to anything which already existed could notify the last 1 or 2 people that amended that feature, as they are the most likely to know what is correct or be in a position to double check if they doubt what they did previously. That still wouldn't handle addition of things that don't exist type vandalism, but hopefully that would be a little easier to spot. Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk-nl] Merkaartor mem use
Hoi, Tijdens de meeting een paar weken terug was een van de vraagjes hoe merkaartor nu juist met geheugen omging. Daar had ik eigenlijk geen goed antwoord op (nog niet trouwens). Maar een paar dagen poste een van onze gebruikers op de mailing list dat hij merkaartor op een laptop met 32MB of ram gebruikt. Citaatje : Btw, I don't think I have mentioned this before, but I have merkaartor working on a laptop with just 32MB of RAM, it gets a bit slow when using yahoo imagery but works just fine otherwise. Dus ik denk dat mensen die met iets oudere hardware zitten en af en toe tegen de limiet aanhikken met JOSM in merkaartor misschien een alternatief hebben. cu bart ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] Open Access Day en Wikimedia NL conferentie
http://www.kennisland.nl/nl/agenda/2008/Open-Access-Day.html Wellicht interessant om een praatje te houden of gewoon aanwezig te zijn? Ik heb het een beetje te druk zelf, denk niet dat ik kan. Trouwens, ik sta 1 nov op de NL-wikimedia-conferentie met een praatje over OpenStreetMap. http://www.wikimediaconferentie.nl/programma/ Het thema is 'de bewerkbare wereld'. Lijkt me voor meer mensen hier leuk om bij te zijn! martijn van exel -+- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -+- http://www.schaaltreinen.nl/ ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [Talk-de] Vorschlag für's neutrale Eisenbahn- Tagging
Tobias Wendorff schrieb: Hallo Leute, hier mit Vorschlag für's Taggen von Eisenbahnhaltepunkten, basierend auf der Idee von Birgit Nietsch: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Eisenbahn Grüße Tobias ps: Nicht meckern, ich habe die Unterseite schon früher eröffnet und jetzt für diesen Zweck umgenutzt. Ganz gut, aber ich würde gern ein paar kleine Änderungen vorschlagen. Hier sind die wichtigsten: 1.: Anstelle von railway=train_stop railway=station mit der Bedeutung: Bahnhof oder Haltepunkt, an dem Züge planmäßig halten und railway=halt mit der Bedeutung: Bedarfshalt Dafür entfällt dann on_demand Begründung: stationund halt beiden werden seit langem mit der angegebenen Bedeutung in OSM verwendet. 2.: Anstelle von IBNR uic_ref Begründung: IBNR ist die deutsche Abkürzung (das B steht für Bahnhof). 3.: Bei track_switches (oder points oder was auch immer sich durchsetzt): Neben 0...n auch yes und no erlauben. Begründung: yes, damit auch Leute, die nur wissen ob Haltepunkt oder Bahnhof (oder die weichen nicht zählen wollen) sinnvolles beitragen können, no mit der Bedeutung 0 aus Konsistenzgründen. Philipp ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vorschlag für's neutrale Eisenbahn- Tagging
Till Maas schrieb: Wäre es nicht analog dazu auch besser anstelle von service_DB service_DB_id folgende Tag-Namen zu wählen? service_operator service_operator_id Ansonsten müßte man ja für jeden Betreiber extra Tags einführen. Wobei ich auch nicht verstehe, warum die ID der DB zur Service Klassifizierung gehört. Vielleicht wäre dann sowas noch aussagekräftiger: operator_id operator_category Detail, kleines: Als Trennzeichen für Hauptkey:Subkey:Subsubkey immer Doppelpunkte nehmen, weil das in XML so üblich ist. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bahnhof vs. Haltepunkt
Tobias Wendorff schrieb: Birgit Nietsch schrieb: Wie taggen wir nach deinem Schema Hamburg-Dammtor, zweimal? (Zwei Bahnsteige, S-Bahn und Fernbahn.) Wie(oft) wird es denn zur Zeit getagged? Einmal, als railway=station, als ein Node, etwa in Gebäudemitte. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Cycleroute update
Zurück aus dem Urlaub habe ich nochmal Zeit gefunden, mich um http://gnuher.de/cycleroute/map zu kümmern. Ich habe jetzt auch Firefox 3 und habe (hoffentlich) das Problem mit dem Upload korrigieren können. Im Moment kann ich jetzt nicht mehr mit FF 2 testen. (Kann mir jemand sagen, ob ich meine Profile zerschieße, wenn ich unter ubuntu hardy auch den alten ff2 installiere und aufrufe.) Harald. -- --+- Harald Kirsch | pifpafpuf bei gmx punkt de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vorschlag für's neutrale Eisenbahn- Tagging
Birgit Nietsch schrieb: Detail, kleines: Als Trennzeichen für Hauptkey:Subkey:Subsubkey immer Doppelpunkte nehmen, weil das in XML so üblich ist. Habe ich das nicht? ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vorschlag für's neutrale Eisenbahn- Tagging
Philipp Klaus Krause schrieb: 1.: Anstelle von railway=train_stop railway=station mit der Bedeutung: Bahnhof oder Haltepunkt, an dem Züge planmäßig halten Ich habe das extra nicht so genannt, weil station in diesem Fall _eindeutig_ Bahnhof bedeutet. train_stop ist analog zu bus_stop und tram_stop. Es gibt ja auch Busbahnhöfe... Begründung: stationund halt beiden werden seit langem mit der angegebenen Bedeutung in OSM verwendet. Mir kam es so vor, als ob die meisten Leute halt auch für Haltepunkt verwendet haben, weil der Begriff in Deutschland sehr geläufig ist: Im Tagwatch für DE gibt es 2501 Halts ... damit werden nämlich leider auch U-Bahnen und alles andere bezeichnet. Man kann es nicht auf die Eisenbahn zurückführen. Tagwatch zeigt übrigens utner railway=station keinen Eintrag?! uic_ref Begründung: IBNR ist die deutsche Abkürzung (das B steht für Bahnhof). Wurde das nicht neulich mal abgelehnt? Okay, ich führe es ein. 3.: Bei track_switches (oder points oder was auch immer sich durchsetzt): Neben 0...n auch yes und no erlauben. Begründung: yes, damit auch Leute, die nur wissen ob Haltepunkt oder Bahnhof (oder die weichen nicht zählen wollen) sinnvolles beitragen können, no mit der Bedeutung 0 aus Konsistenzgründen. Das Datenbank-Importscript wandelt yes no soweit ich weiß sowieso in 1 0 um, damit es einheitlich als Integer gespeichert wird. Bei der Neuschaffung eines Tags finde ich es besser, wenn man sich auf eine Basis einigt, kann es ja aber mal dranschreiben. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bahnhof vs. Haltepunkt
Birgit Nietsch schrieb: Einmal, als railway=station, als ein Node, etwa in Gebäudemitte. Also wurde das Gebäude getagged? Nunja, das ist die nächste Frage :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Antw: Re: Rückantwort der Deutschen Bahn bzw. DB Netz AG
Nick Rudnick schrieb: Mir als gelerntem Eisenbahner (inzwischen im Ruhestand) gefällt es natürlich, dass das sonst oft stiefmütterlich behandelte Thema Eisenbahn hier so extreme Aufmerksamkeit erfährt, aber ehrlich gesagt halte ich die gesamte Diskussion für Pippifax. Inzwischen halte ich bei OSM sogar die Unterscheidung zwischen Bahnhof und sonstigen Zu- und Ausstiegsmöglichkeiten für überflüssig. Interessant ist doch nur, ob man an einem bestimmten Punkt einen Zug besteigen oder verlassen kann. Die bahninternen Definitionen sind doch für Otto Normalreisenden absolut bedeutungslos! Und für die Darstellung des Serviceangebots (wenn man das so nennen möchte :-) ) ist es auch unwichtig, ob das in einem Bahnhof oder einer Haltestelle stattfindet. Hauptsache ist doch, dass erkennbar ist, ob z.B. eine Fahrkarte (sorry, ein ticket) gekauft werden kann, oder man aufs Klo kann. Dann mail mich mal privat an, damit ich Dich mit auf die Diskussionsliste nehmen kann :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vorschlag für's neutrale Eisenbahn- Tagging
Tobias Wendorff schrieb: Birgit Nietsch schrieb: Detail, kleines: Als Trennzeichen für Hauptkey:Subkey:Subsubkey immer Doppelpunkte nehmen, weil das in XML so üblich ist. Habe ich das nicht? Ich hatte auf Till gentwortet, und der hatte da Unterstriche stehen. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vorschlag für's neutrale Eisenbahn- Tagging
Birgit Nietsch schrieb: Ich hatte auf Till gentwortet, und der hatte da Unterstriche stehen. Ich hab's aber auch falsch :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vorschlag für's neutrale Eisenbahn- Tagging
Tobias Wendorff schrieb: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Eisenbahn Habe jetzt ein paar Sachen aus- und umgebaut. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM Karte in Google Maps Viewer
Ich emfand die Preformanceunterschiede leider auch als beachtlich ;-( Verschiedene Projektionen, normale WMS-Server, GPX-Dateien direkt, ... @Sven: Inwieweit unterstützt OL verschiedene Projektionen? Zumindest können Ergebnisse von WMS-Servern mit unterschiedlicher Projektion nicht in einer Karte überlagert werden, oder doch? -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Regards / Cordialement Dr. Franz-Josef Behr Participate in http://www.opengeocoding.org! Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional. Prof. Dr. Franz-Josef Behr - Home Office Author of: Strategisches GIS-Management - http://www.gis-management.de eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gis-news.de Tel: +49 (0)721 / 453980-1 sowie 45 33 35 Fax: +49 (0)721 / 453980-7 sowie via web.de: +49 (0)1212-5-12048213 begin:vcard fn:Dr. Franz-Josef^Behr n:Behr;Franz-Josef org:Stuttgart University of Applied Sciences (SUAS);Faculty of Geomatics, Computer Science and Mathematics adr;quoted-printable:;;Schellingstra=C3=9Fe 24, ;Stuttgart;;D-70174;Germany title:Prof. tel;work:+49) 711/8926-2606 tel;home:+49 (0)721 / 453980-1 url:http://www.hft-stuttgart.de/ version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vorschlag für's neutrale Eisenbahn- Tagging
Tobias Wendorff schrieb: railway=station mit der Bedeutung: Bahnhof oder Haltepunkt, an dem Züge planmäßig halten Ich habe das extra nicht so genannt, weil station in diesem Fall _eindeutig_ Bahnhof bedeutet. train_stop ist analog zu bus_stop und tram_stop. Es gibt ja auch Busbahnhöfe... bus stop ist ein stehender Begriff und daher intuitiv zu benutzen. train stop ist mir so noch nicht untergekommen. Aber station ist ein völlig banaler Alltagsbegriff, und das erste passende Wort, das einem international zu sowas einfällt. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bahnhof vs. Haltepunkt
Tobias Wendorff schrieb: Birgit Nietsch schrieb: Einmal, als railway=station, als ein Node, etwa in Gebäudemitte. Also wurde das Gebäude getagged? Nunja, das ist die nächste Frage :-) Schau doch selbst: http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.560759lon=9.989702zoom=18layers=B000FTF (Nein, ich hab das nicht getaggt.) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vorschlag für's neutrale Eisenbahn- Tagging
Birgit Nietsch schrieb: bus stop ist ein stehender Begriff und daher intuitiv zu benutzen. train stop ist mir so noch nicht untergekommen. Aber station ist ein völlig banaler Alltagsbegriff, und das erste passende Wort, das einem international zu sowas einfällt. Klar, aber halt benutzen in Deutschland auch viele, obwohl bei uns flag_stop korrekt wäre. station bedeutet Bahnhof, worum ja eigentlich gestritten wird. Schade, dass wir nicht alles so machen: transit:stop = train; tram; bus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wiki-Inhaltsverzeichnis
Tobias Wendorff schrieb: Hallo Leute, gibt es eigentlich ein Wiki-Inhaltsverzeichnis, wo man alle jemals erstellen Seiten sieht? Grüße Tobias ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de Ja gibt es: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Special:AllPages ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Wiki-Inhaltsverzeichnis
Hallo Leute, gibt es eigentlich ein Wiki-Inhaltsverzeichnis, wo man alle jemals erstellen Seiten sieht? Grüße Tobias ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wiki-Inhaltsverzeichnis
Marco Krage schrieb: Ja gibt es: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Special:AllPages Super! Das spart ungemein Suchzeit ... Danke! ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vorschlag für's neutrale Eisenbahn-T agging
Andreas Barth schrieb: Das Wort Station ist zumindest hier auch üblich, und bedeutet eine Stelle, wo der Zug (oder Bus oder ...) hält und Fahrgastwechsel möglich ist. Das dt. Wort Station in Zusammenhang mit Bussen bedeutet ja eigentlich Omnibusbahnhof. Wenn es größer ist: Zentraler Omnibusbahnhof (ZOB). Wenn ich auf die Straße gehe und Leute frage, werden alle sagen, das die Einstiegsmöglichkeiten bei der Münchner U-Bahn U-Bahnhöfe sind - Bahnhof im Sinne der Eisenbahnverkehrsordnung ist kein einziger, da dies keine Eisenbahn ist (sondern eine BOStrab-Bahn). Okay, dann habe ich eine Idee: Wie wäre es, wenn wir alles mit folgenden Bedingungen railway=station taggen: - es hält mindestens ein Zug - Fahrgäste können ein-, aus- und umsteigen - Fahrgäste können umsteigen - es gibt mindestens einen Bahnsteig = Wir sollten so taggen wie es dem normalen deutschen Sprachverständnis entspricht, da dies auch den internationalen Maßstäben entspricht. Was machst Du dann mit den 2400 railroad=halt, die wir in Deutschland haben, die aber nach Deiner Definiton (und der eigentlichen Bedeutung) gar keine halts sind? Ich bin dafür, sie alle auf railroad=station zu ändern und dann z.B. nach meinem Schema näher zu beschreiben. transit:stop = train; tram; bus und dann mit einem entsprechenden Merker, falls nur Bedarfshalt (und von mir aus auch gerne andere für was ist das technisch, oder gibt es Fahrkartenautomaten). So eine Änderung sollte aber m.E. international abgesprochen werden und per Skript ausgeführt werden. Der Eingriff wäre sicherlich zu groß. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Fahrstuhl taggen
Rainer Knaepper schrieb: Womit wir innerhalb von Bahnhöfen dann highways hätten? Für Rollstuhlfahrer sicher nicht uninteressant, aber es führen keine Wege dorthin, wenn man nicht die Bahnsteige bzw. Zuwegungen als footway einträgt. In der Tat würde service = elevator besser passen, oder? Nein, ich sage jetzt nichts zum Haltepunkt Dortmund-Aplerbeck, da schaffen es eh nur durchtrainierte Kletterer, in den Zug rein- und mutige Springer, wieder rauszukommen. Was meinst Du, kommt der Umbau wohl vor 2010 ? Die Pläne für Hörde machen mich irgendwie heiß. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Parkplatz - je nach Uhrzeit
Hallo, wie taggt ihr Parkplätze, die nur in einem bestimmten Zeitraum eine begrenzte Parkdauer haben oder kostenpflichtig sind? Beides kann man taggen, mit maxstay bzw. fee, aber nicht angeben wann das gilt. Und zumindest hier gibt es sehr viele dieser Parkplätze. Wenn man schon die Angaben zu Parkdauer oder Kostenpflichtigkeit macht, sollte man doch auch angeben, wann das gilt. Schließlich macht es ja schon einen Unterschied ob das Navi einem nachts auf einen weiter entfernten Parkplatz führt, obwohl der nächstliegende nur tagsüber etwas kostet. Ich hab mal ein Proposal [1] dazu erstellt, wie man es machen könnte. Aber vielleicht hat ja noch jemand eine andere Idee. Gruß [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Time_restricted_tags ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Frage nach Landstraße im Ort
Hallo Leute, wie wird denn nun eine Landstraße getaggt, die wie eine normale Gemeindestraße aussieht, jedoch einen deutlich hören Verkehrsanteil aufweist, Vorfahrt besitzt und über Ampeln, Bushaltestellen und Kreuzungen verfügt? highway = tertiary oder highway = residental mit entsprechenden Referenzen? Grüße Tobias ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Parkplatz - je nach Uhrzeit
Hallo Sebastian, Sebastian Hohmann schrieb: Ich hab mal ein Proposal [1] dazu erstellt, wie man es machen könnte. Aber vielleicht hat ja noch jemand eine andere Idee. ich mag ja die Doppelpunkte neuerdings sehr: parking:duration:in parking:duration:max Grüße Tobias ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vorschlag für's neutrale Eisenbahn-T agging
Tobias Wendorff schrieb: Okay, dann habe ich eine Idee: Wie wäre es, wenn wir alles mit folgenden Bedingungen railway=station taggen: - es hält mindestens ein Zug - Fahrgäste können ein-, aus- und umsteigen - Fahrgäste können umsteigen - es gibt mindestens einen Bahnsteig Dann fallen aber andere Bahnhöfe (z.B. Überhol-, Güter- oder Postbahnhöfe) nicht mehr darunter? Philipp ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Frage nach Landstraße im Ort
Tobias Wendorff schrieb: Hallo Leute, wie wird denn nun eine Landstraße getaggt, die wie eine normale Gemeindestraße aussieht, jedoch einen deutlich hören Verkehrsanteil aufweist, Vorfahrt besitzt und über Ampeln, Bushaltestellen und Kreuzungen verfügt? highway = tertiary oder highway = residental mit entsprechenden Referenzen? Also, wenn es keinen besonderen Grund gibt, es anders zu machen, ist eine Landstraße secondary. Philipp ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Frage nach Landstraße im Ort
Hallo Philipp, Philipp Klaus Krause schrieb: Also, wenn es keinen besonderen Grund gibt, es anders zu machen, ist eine Landstraße secondary. vor kurzem gab es doch gerade diese Diskussion, dass man eben nicht nach den Verwaltungstags gehen, sondern das Ganze so mappen sollte, wie es der Realität entspricht. Grüße Tobias ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vorschlag für's neutrale Eisenbahn-T agging
* Tobias Wendorff ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [081003 17:26]: Andreas Barth schrieb: Das Wort Station ist zumindest hier auch üblich, und bedeutet eine Stelle, wo der Zug (oder Bus oder ...) hält und Fahrgastwechsel möglich ist. Das dt. Wort Station in Zusammenhang mit Bussen bedeutet ja eigentlich Omnibusbahnhof. Wenn es größer ist: Zentraler Omnibusbahnhof (ZOB). Ich kenne das einfach als Wort im Sprachgebrauch: An welcher Station steigen wir aus?. Das mag aber ein süddeutsches Phänomen sein. Wenn ich auf die Straße gehe und Leute frage, werden alle sagen, das die Einstiegsmöglichkeiten bei der Münchner U-Bahn U-Bahnhöfe sind - Bahnhof im Sinne der Eisenbahnverkehrsordnung ist kein einziger, da dies keine Eisenbahn ist (sondern eine BOStrab-Bahn). Okay, dann habe ich eine Idee: Wie wäre es, wenn wir alles mit folgenden Bedingungen railway=station taggen: - es hält mindestens ein Zug - Fahrgäste können ein-, aus- und umsteigen - Fahrgäste können umsteigen - es gibt mindestens einen Bahnsteig Ok. = Wir sollten so taggen wie es dem normalen deutschen Sprachverständnis entspricht, da dies auch den internationalen Maßstäben entspricht. Was machst Du dann mit den 2400 railroad=halt, die wir in Deutschland haben, die aber nach Deiner Definiton (und der eigentlichen Bedeutung) gar keine halts sind? Bei der Trambahn kann es durchaus halt geben, und ich kenne auch bei der Eisenbahn einige halts. Da aber die allermeisten echt station sind, wäre dies zu ändern wohl sinnvoll. Ich bin dafür, sie alle auf railroad=station zu ändern und dann z.B. nach meinem Schema näher zu beschreiben. Du meinst, transit:stop zusätzlich? Na von mir aus. transit:stop = train; tram; bus und dann mit einem entsprechenden Merker, falls nur Bedarfshalt (und von mir aus auch gerne andere für was ist das technisch, oder gibt es Fahrkartenautomaten). So eine Änderung sollte aber m.E. international abgesprochen werden und per Skript ausgeführt werden. Der Eingriff wäre sicherlich zu groß. Wieso nicht? *Wenn* wir uns einig sind, sehe ich kein Problem. Aber auch nur dann. Viele Grüße, Andi ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vorschlag für's neutrale Eisenbahn-T agging
Philipp Klaus Krause schrieb: Dann fallen aber andere Bahnhöfe (z.B. Überhol-, Güter- oder Postbahnhöfe) nicht mehr darunter? Dumm die Dumm :-) Okay ... da hält irgendein Zug - fertig? ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vorschlag für's neutrale Eisenbahn-T agging
Andreas Barth schrieb: Ich kenne das einfach als Wort im Sprachgebrauch: An welcher Station steigen wir aus?. Das mag aber ein süddeutsches Phänomen sein. In den S-Bahnen wird es automatisch teilweise auch gesagt. - es hält mindestens ein Zug - Fahrgäste können ein-, aus- und umsteigen - Fahrgäste können umsteigen - es gibt mindestens einen Bahnsteig Ok. Es ist aber korrekt, dass dann Betriebsbahnhöfe und alles halten. Bei der Trambahn kann es durchaus halt geben, und ich kenne auch bei der Eisenbahn einige halts. Ja, ich würde das sicherlich filtern (über den Namen etc.). Ich bin dafür, sie alle auf railroad=station zu ändern und dann z.B. nach meinem Schema näher zu beschreiben. Du meinst, transit:stop zusätzlich? Na von mir aus. Nein nein, nach dem Beschreibungsschema: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Eisenbahn Der Eingriff wäre sicherlich zu groß. Wieso nicht? *Wenn* wir uns einig sind, sehe ich kein Problem. Aber auch nur dann. Weil railway=station auf bestehende Dinge aufbauen würde. Man/ich würde also einen Kompromiss eingehen. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Parkplatz - je nach Uhrzeit // Nachtrag
Tobias Wendorff schrieb: ich mag ja die Doppelpunkte neuerdings sehr: parking:duration:in parking:duration:max MMh ... irgendwie wollen die doch maxstay haben, steht unter http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/DE:Key:access ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Frage nach Landstraße im Ort
Hallo, Hallo Philipp, Philipp Klaus Krause schrieb: Also, wenn es keinen besonderen Grund gibt, es anders zu machen, ist eine Landstraße secondary. Bei kleineren Orten hat man ja noch den Bezug zur Klasse ausserhalb. Es macht ja wenig Sinn, ab der Ortsgrenze die Klasse zu wechseln, auch wenn sich der Straßenzustand minimal ändert. Wenn eine Straße innerorts beginnt und endet und man damit von 'draussen' keine Orientierung bekommt, orientiert man sich am besten am Verkehrsfluss. Eine wichtige Verkehrsader, die keine Bundesstrasse ist, wird zu secondary. vor kurzem gab es doch gerade diese Diskussion, dass man eben nicht nach den Verwaltungstags gehen, sondern das Ganze so mappen sollte, wie es der Realität entspricht. Wobei die Frage bleibt: Wessen Realität? Ausbauzustand, verkehrliche- oder administrative Bedeutung? Relativ schön definiert sind noch die englischen Feartures, die sich klar am Verbindungsstatus orientieren und administrative Klassen und Ausbaumerkmale nur als Erkennungszeichen handhaben. Bei der Übersetzung in die beisen deutschen Haupttabellen ist davon leider wenig übriggeblieben :( Grüsse Hubert -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Frage nach Landstraße im Ort
Hallo Hubert, qbert biker schrieb: Bei kleineren Orten hat man ja noch den Bezug zur Klasse ausserhalb. Es macht ja wenig Sinn, ab der Ortsgrenze die Klasse zu wechseln, auch wenn sich der Straßenzustand minimal ändert. Wenn eine Straße innerorts beginnt und endet und man damit von 'draussen' keine Orientierung bekommt, orientiert man sich am besten am Verkehrsfluss. Eine wichtige Verkehrsader, die keine Bundesstrasse ist, wird zu secondary. Sorry ... ich hätte Stadt und nicht Ort schreiben sollen. Es ist eine Stadt mit über 30.000 Einwohnern. vor kurzem gab es doch gerade diese Diskussion, dass man eben nicht nach den Verwaltungstags gehen, sondern das Ganze so mappen sollte, wie es der Realität entspricht. Wobei die Frage bleibt: Wessen Realität? Ausbauzustand, verkehrliche- oder administrative Bedeutung? Relativ schön definiert sind noch die englischen Feartures, die sich klar am Verbindungsstatus orientieren und administrative Klassen und Ausbaumerkmale nur als Erkennungszeichen handhaben. Bei der Übersetzung in die beisen deutschen Haupttabellen ist davon leider wenig übriggeblieben :( Baulich ist es komplett ab von einer normalen Landstraße, die zwei Orte / Städte miteinander verbindet. Grüße Tobias ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Cycleroute update
Also bei mir wurden bei Hardy FF2 und FF3 gleichzeitig installiert und laufen m.w. unabhängig voneinander. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Frage nach Landstraße im Ort
Hallo. Am Freitag, 3. Oktober 2008 schrieb Tobias Wendorff: wie wird denn nun eine Landstraße getaggt, die wie eine normale Gemeindestraße aussieht, jedoch einen deutlich hören Verkehrsanteil aufweist, Vorfahrt besitzt und über Ampeln, Bushaltestellen und Kreuzungen verfügt? highway = tertiary oder highway = residental mit entsprechenden Referenzen? Wenn es einen deutlichen Unterschied zu einer Wohnstraße gibt, sollte es auf keinen Fall residential sein. Eine Wohnstraße zeichnet sich für mich dadurch aus, dass man da nur rein fährt, wenn man sich seinem Ziel nähert, also nicht später wieder auf eine größere Straße wechselt. (Oder wenn man grade losfährt, ja!) Die Klassifizierung einer Durchgangsstraße würde ich dann wirklich vom Kontext abhängig machen. Ist sie kleiner als eine der nahegelegenen secondaries, ist es tertiary. ;-) Leider fristet tertiary in Deutschland vielerorts ein Nischendasein, eigentlich schade. Gruß, Bernd -- Man stolpert selten über seine Fehler, aber oft darüber, was andere daraus machen. - Madonna (Pop-Star) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM Karte in Google Maps Viewer
Dr. Franz-Josef Behr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Verschiedene Projektionen, normale WMS-Server, GPX-Dateien direkt, ... @Sven: Inwieweit unterstützt OL verschiedene Projektionen? Es kann keine Rasterlayer umprojizieren, das geht systembedingt nicht, aber man kann Webbasierte Karten eben auch in einer anderen Projektion darstellen als epsg:900913. Zum Beispiel GK oder sowas. Ich habe eine interne Webseite, bei der man zwischen TOP25 via WMS (dem mapserver hab ich epsg:900913 beigebracht), OSM und Google Tiles umschalten kann. OL kann das out of the box (einfach new OpenLayers.Layer.WMS, new OpenLayers.Layer.OSM oder new OpenLayers.Layer.Google). Bei Google geht erst mal nur das Google Tile Format. WMS Anbindung hab ich zwar auch schon mal irgendwo gesehen, aber das ist third party code. Zumindest können Ergebnisse von WMS-Servern mit unterschiedlicher Projektion nicht in einer Karte überlagert werden, oder doch? Natürlich nicht, denn dazu müsste Openlayers ja die Rasterbilder umrechnen. Sven -- I'm a bastard, and proud of it (Linus Torvalds, Wednesday Sep 6, 2000) /me is [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Rückantwort der Deutschen Bahn bzw. DB Netz AG
Am Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:41:13 +0200 schrieb Tobias Wendorff [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Es ist die Betrachtungsweise. Du würdest entsprechend der Bahnhofskategorien mappen (denn genau das wurde dort bewertet). Ich würde vermutlich genauso mappen, wollte aber die Konfliktpunkte finden: Es gibt große Bahnhöfe (z.B. im Osten), wo alle paar Stunden ein Zug hält ... große Gleisanlagen vorhanden, aber halt total unattraktiv. Ist das ein Bahnhof oder nur (noch) ein Haltepunkt? Ich spende ein Foto (mit autostitch zusammengerechnet, Himmel links oben flüchtig aufgefüllt): http://malenki.ch/Bilder/OSM/dscf7705-7,11_bearb_klein_Bhf_Querfurt.jpg Bei Bedarf gibt es das Bild auch in groß :) Großer Bahnhof mit kleinem Haltepunkt (hinter dem Mast zu sehen), alle zwei Stunden geht ein Zug. Gruß Thomas ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Cycleroute update
Harald Kirsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Im Moment kann ich jetzt nicht mehr mit FF 2 testen. Auf die Schnelle getestet scheint hier alles zu tun. Vielen Dank für diese geniale Anwendung, Sebastian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Cycleroute update
Am 03.10.2008 21:19 schrieb Sebastian Niehaus: Harald Kirsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://gnuher.de/cycleroute/map Im Moment kann ich jetzt nicht mehr mit FF 2 testen. Auf die Schnelle getestet scheint hier alles zu tun. Danke für die Info. Harald. -- --+- Harald Kirsch | pifpafpuf bei gmx punkt de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] fixbot-Probleme, bzw. unverbundene S traßen
Am Samstag, den 04.10.2008, 00:53 +0200 schrieb Achim Finger: Hallo zusammen, Um die Probleme zu beheben: Mit JOSM kann ich 2 nahe beieinander liegende nodes verbinden. Würde das auch gehen, wenn auf der einen Straße noch kein node in der Nähe vorhanden ist (also ohne vorher einen Node einzufügen)? wenn ja, wie? Jep, das geht. JOIN Node heißt die Funktion J die Taste dafür. Gruß, Achim PS: die eine Verbindung der zwei Straßen (26992250 und 44434461) hab ich hergestellt, die anderen noch nicht, falls jemand schauen möchte: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.14266lon=10.24789zoom=16layers=B000FTF der Heideweg ist nicht mit der B 300 verbunden, ebenso wenig die ST2020, Am Anger hat eine Verbindung, die Frundsbergstraße und die Schulstraße nicht... ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Frage zum Routing mit OSM.
On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, Andreas Labres wrote: Sven Geggus wrote: /s/geradeaus/kreuzungsfrei weiter/g. Diese Info liefert OSM nicht. Es gibt einen Punkt, da hört ein way auf und ein anderer way fängt an, anders kann man eine Namensänderung eines Weges nicht machen. Ob an diesem Punkt noch andere Wege queren/querab abgehen, ist irrelevant. Einzig entscheidbar ist geradeaus (wie immer man das real ausrechnet). Geradeaus: Die Differenz der Richtungen des letzten und des nächsten Wegstückes unterschreiten einen definierten Wert (z.B. 20 Grad). Außerdem sollte man darauf achten, dass der Straßentyp gleich bleibt. Ausnahme: Auf breiten Straßen heißt geradeaus i.d.R. nicht schnurgeradeaus, sondern der Straße folgendend. Also z.B. Bleiben Sie auf der B6. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
