[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Publisher)
Sorry for my fist post. This is my first proposal and I am very new to this. I am proposing the tag:publisher. Intent: To mark the location of a publisher. Could be a magazine, newspaper, music, software, book, etc... The wiki page of the proposal is at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Publisher I will really appreciate your comments. Meme. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoBase nodes import
Sam Vekemans wrote: I wanted to float the idea (to the general talk list) about importing the full data base that is available, not as shapes/ways/lines, but as nodes which show what map features the node represents. So for example, importing a park (in a mapped area) we would just show the outline dots of the park, and the user can connect the dots and show it the 'right' way osm-style. Huh?!? So nothing from the Geobase import would actually appear on the map until somebody had gone and traced over it manually? Have I actually understood that correctly? Only it sounds bonkers to me... Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is OSM Mapper ready for 0.6? (was Re: DisablePotlatch finally)
In short: Mappers need not worry about changing mapping habits. Editing is the way it is (unlike the transition from API 0.4 to 0.5!), you're just encourage to explain your edit session via changeset comments This is what I usually do: 1. Download a manageable chunk via OSMXAPI. 2. Edit via JOSM for a full 4-5 hours. 3. Then upload via my dial-up (10 kbps) connection. 4. Sleep. What if someone edited a few ways? Does it invalidate my whole changeset/edit session? Or just the modified node/way/relation? On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:18 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 12:52 -0800, Beej Jorgensen wrote: [about adding commit comments to changelogs] Finally, there might be some way to appeal to the mapper's pride. Putting the right comment on a change log is more than just for tracking--it's a way of saying, *this* is the work *I* did! We could have a way for users to see others' changelogs, for example, which might be shown as one's Openstreetmap History of Work. The last thing I'd want is for the record of my hard effort to say asdf over and over again. Put the last ten commit comments in the user profile or diary? Offer a Lolcat of Commit-Comment-Awesomeness. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Karl Newman siliconfi...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe we need a tag for cultural value :-P Or use the admin_level tag. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoBase nodes import
Thanks :)Bonkers? ... perhaps :@) Actually, that would be the just the 1st step. meaning that; On those mapped areas where say - if the actual shapes were imported, you would see 'ghost lines'. .. this is not preferred. So, by just seeing the reference points, then these shapes can be drawn in by hand (where needed). Then, on the areas where it has been just OSM roads done, the rest of the import can happen, so the connect-the-dots would just be for the roads. Going this way, it would avoid the number 1 objection to the import, which is importing data showing up as ghost lines, because the change-detect script wasn't able to detect that someone already drew in the map feature. and going this way, would also solve the problem of how to deal with updates. they would get imported as nodes instead of ways. (so not to interfere with any mappers work) So far, in discussions, what came up was the importance of not undermining the work of mappers who have spent the last couple years trying to make the map an accurate representation of the real world. (doing it this way, it would give the command back to the OSM mappers, rather than 1 big mapper going onto openstreetmap and trampling over everything ... it's like a newbie, messing up on potlatch or JOSM... but 10,000 times worse) So far, it looks like the majority of the country would be able to accept a full import of everything... except the roads. .. it's only 10 or so tiles that nothing would be imported (just nodes), and less than 100 where only roads would be omitted. (there are 12,539 tiles in Canada) (.5x.25 degrees) - something like that... the actual breakdown will (should) be posted on the wiki. I hope that makes sense, Thanks for the input :) Sam Vekemans Across Canada Trails On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:34 AM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: Sam Vekemans wrote: I wanted to float the idea (to the general talk list) about importing the full data base that is available, not as shapes/ways/lines, but as nodes which show what map features the node represents. So for example, importing a park (in a mapped area) we would just show the outline dots of the park, and the user can connect the dots and show it the 'right' way osm-style. Huh?!? So nothing from the Geobase import would actually appear on the map until somebody had gone and traced over it manually? Have I actually understood that correctly? Only it sounds bonkers to me... Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is OSM Mapper ready for 0.6? (was Re: DisablePotlatch finally)
On 18 Dec 2008, at 08:56, maning sambale wrote: In short: Mappers need not worry about changing mapping habits. Editing is the way it is (unlike the transition from API 0.4 to 0.5!), you're just encourage to explain your edit session via changeset comments This is what I usually do: 1. Download a manageable chunk via OSMXAPI. Is the OSMXAPI ready to return version numbers? [For devs to answer] 2. Edit via JOSM for a full 4-5 hours. 3. Then upload via my dial-up (10 kbps) connection. 4. Sleep. What if someone edited a few ways? Does it invalidate my whole changeset/edit session? Or just the modified node/way/relation? It will invalidate just the modified node/way/relation. With JOSM in 0.6 there will be diff uploads, which means that all the changes are sent at one time. This does mean that the whole change will be rejected, if one node has been modified before you have uploaded. As the upload is done as a single request, less bandwidth hence time will be required. I don't know what the speedup is. The speedup is likely to depend on the network connection. Shaun On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:18 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 12:52 -0800, Beej Jorgensen wrote: [about adding commit comments to changelogs] Finally, there might be some way to appeal to the mapper's pride. Putting the right comment on a change log is more than just for tracking--it's a way of saying, *this* is the work *I* did! We could have a way for users to see others' changelogs, for example, which might be shown as one's Openstreetmap History of Work. The last thing I'd want is for the record of my hard effort to say asdf over and over again. Put the last ten commit comments in the user profile or diary? Offer a Lolcat of Commit-Comment-Awesomeness. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is anyone making public transport routing maps basedon OpenStreetMap data?
Frederik Ramm wrote: Soundy overly complex compared to just using pdftotext and then parsing the resulting ASCII text, unless of course there's OCR involved which would rule out this approach. Doesn't preserve the layout, in particular the columns, well enough. The UK rail timetable PDF is composed about as logically as you would expect for our dysfunctional railway system. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Is-anyone-making-public-transport-routing-maps-based-on-OpenStreetMap-data--tp21044201p21069208.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoBase nodes import
Sam Vekemans wrote: Bonkers? ... perhaps :@) Well if I've understood correctly then what you're suggesting is that we add what amounts to presumably some tens of millions of nodes each of which would presumably have a large number of highly duplicative tags. If that is what you're saying then I stand by my comment that it seems completely and utterly mad. Actually, that would be the just the 1st step. meaning that; On those mapped areas where say - if the actual shapes were imported, you would see 'ghost lines'. .. this is not preferred. So, by just seeing the reference points, then these shapes can be drawn in by hand (where needed). If everything is going to be drawn by hand then why bother importing stuff at all? Why not just create a tool that can generate an OSM file for an area from Geobase and then let people generate extracts for their area and load them into JOSM to do the hand addition of the lines before uploading? Then, on the areas where it has been just OSM roads done, the rest of the import can happen, so the connect-the-dots would just be for the roads. Ah right, so you're just suggesting this for everything, just for some subsets of the data in each area? How will you decide which features to import fully and which to import partially in each area? Going this way, it would avoid the number 1 objection to the import, which is importing data showing up as ghost lines, because the change-detect script wasn't able to detect that someone already drew in the map feature. What are ghost lines? What is this change-detect script and what is it going to be doing? and going this way, would also solve the problem of how to deal with updates. they would get imported as nodes instead of ways. (so not to interfere with any mappers work) To be honest I think you're probably living in a dream world if you think there is any real chance of being apply to apply updates from the base data automatically. So far, it looks like the majority of the country would be able to accept a full import of everything... except the roads. .. it's only 10 or so tiles that nothing would be imported (just nodes), and less than 100 where only roads would be omitted. (there are 12,539 tiles in Canada) (.5x.25 degrees) - something like that... the actual breakdown will (should) be posted on the wiki. So this is mostly only about the roads, but in a lot of ways people would probably consider them the most important feature, so if we don't get any roads imported without them having to be traced over then we've only gained a fairly limited amount. To be honest most of this is obviously up to you guys as you're the ones that will have to work with it. My main concern is what impact whatever scheme you choose will have on the server infrastructure and data storage requirements, which is why I have concerns about creating tens of millions of nodes which have many duplicated tags or which will wind up never being used and will just be deleted again. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is OSM Mapper ready for 0.6? (was Re: DisablePotlatch finally)
2008/12/18 Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk On 18 Dec 2008, at 08:56, maning sambale wrote: In short: Mappers need not worry about changing mapping habits. Editing is the way it is (unlike the transition from API 0.4 to 0.5!), you're just encourage to explain your edit session via changeset comments This is what I usually do: 1. Download a manageable chunk via OSMXAPI. Is the OSMXAPI ready to return version numbers? [For devs to answer] 2. Edit via JOSM for a full 4-5 hours. 3. Then upload via my dial-up (10 kbps) connection. 4. Sleep. What if someone edited a few ways? Does it invalidate my whole changeset/edit session? Or just the modified node/way/relation? It will invalidate just the modified node/way/relation. With JOSM in 0.6 there will be diff uploads, which means that all the changes are sent at one time. This does mean that the whole change will be rejected, if one node has been modified before you have uploaded. As the upload is done as a single request, less bandwidth hence time will be required. I don't know what the speedup is. The speedup is likely to depend on the network connection. If the API specifies which particular objects in the change were a problem, it would be good if JOSM gave the option of downloading just those objects and performing conflict resolution rather than just failing... Not got a clue how hard that would be to implement though... The speedup will be pretty sizable for high latency links such as many of those in asia when transfering more than a few modification... I'd guess Maning being on a dialup link in asia will probably see a pretty decent speed up as compression should take care of most of the size of the change and being sent in one go should remove most of the time taken in establishing new connections... With an rtt of 250ms, creating 100 nodes in 0.5 would take at least 750ms per node or 75 seconds for the 100 nodes at one connection per node plus transfer time... in 0.6 this should be reduced to 3 connections, so 2.25 seconds plus transfer time... I'd guess Maning's rtt is somewhat higher than 250ms though in which case he'd save even more, as I will with my best case rtt of 320ms to the API... Of course this assumes that JOSM isn't reusing connections, which I think is true and it also assumes that I'm not making silly mistakes or missing things... d ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Publisher)
Well, to be honnest, I don't see the point. We could scroll the activities' list of any Yellow Pages company and get hundreds of activities. All of them would deserve to be in OSM... But how many are useful? Only the ones related to health, food, sport, culture, education... As nobody will ever buy a paper directly from the publisher, the indication is of limited intererest. So let's populate the Kiosks tags in OSM instead of Publishers. - Mail Original - De: Manuel de la Torre mdlto...@gmail.com À: talk@openstreetmap.org Envoyé: Jeudi 18 Décembre 2008 08:58:34 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlin / Berne / Rome / Stockholm / Vienne Objet: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Publisher) Sorry for my fist post. This is my first proposal and I am very new to this. I am proposing the tag:publisher. Intent: To mark the location of a publisher. Could be a magazine, newspaper, music, software, book, etc... The wiki page of the proposal is at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Publisher I will really appreciate your comments. Meme. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoBase nodes import
2008/12/18 Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu So far, it looks like the majority of the country would be able to accept a full import of everything... except the roads. .. it's only 10 or so tiles that nothing would be imported (just nodes), and less than 100 where only roads would be omitted. (there are 12,539 tiles in Canada) (.5x.25 degrees) - something like that... the actual breakdown will (should) be posted on the wiki. So this is mostly only about the roads, but in a lot of ways people would probably consider them the most important feature, so if we don't get any roads imported without them having to be traced over then we've only gained a fairly limited amount. To be honest most of this is obviously up to you guys as you're the ones that will have to work with it. My main concern is what impact whatever scheme you choose will have on the server infrastructure and data storage requirements, which is why I have concerns about creating tens of millions of nodes which have many duplicated tags or which will wind up never being used and will just be deleted again. If it's only 10 tiles of 12539, why bother with importing anything at all for those 10 tiles automatically and instead have those areas manually merged in? For the 100 where roads would be omitted, surely again a manual merge of that road data for those 100 would be the best solution... Then, as Tom says, you only have to share the OSM files for the data to the people who are taking responsibility for massaging the data in rather than putting in lots of nodes with all the way names attached, which appart from using up lots of space, would be a pain in the bum to connect up and in the event that roads are already there, would you want a stack of unconnected nodes all over the place that need someone to manually hunt down and delete? I could see having a copy object down to lower layer option in JOSM would be very useful for the manual merging... I know that you can already copy between layers, but, I think it's either merge the entire layer into the lower one or copy an object to another layer but not preserving it's position... d ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Publisher)
I can see why someone might want to record company offices/businesses in OSM... But... as I mentioned on the proposal talk page, I'm not convinced that a publisher is an amenity... publisher could be a value for a business/business_type/etc key which could then be used to record many other types of business, I'm sure the people who are responsible for some of the micromapping of shopper areas would like this as they run out of shopping areas and look to hit the business parks etc... d 2008/12/18 Charlie Echo openstreet...@coutiere.com Well, to be honnest, I don't see the point. We could scroll the activities' list of any Yellow Pages company and get hundreds of activities. All of them would deserve to be in OSM... But how many are useful? Only the ones related to health, food, sport, culture, education... As nobody will ever buy a paper directly from the publisher, the indication is of limited intererest. So let's populate the Kiosks tags in OSM instead of Publishers. - Mail Original - De: Manuel de la Torre mdlto...@gmail.com À: talk@openstreetmap.org Envoyé: Jeudi 18 Décembre 2008 08:58:34 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlin / Berne / Rome / Stockholm / Vienne Objet: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Publisher) Sorry for my fist post. This is my first proposal and I am very new to this. I am proposing the tag:publisher. Intent: To mark the location of a publisher. Could be a magazine, newspaper, music, software, book, etc... The wiki page of the proposal is at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Publisher I will really appreciate your comments. Meme. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Buildings and roads
On Thu, December 18, 2008 07:27, maning sambale wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Nathan Mixter srmix...@hotmail.com wrote: Wow, Naga City is full of buildings. How did they get so many? Are those all building=yeses? Crazy. NAGA City GIS released their data in public domain. We are still encouraging the City government do continue adding more data. Well, there is still a lot of data to import (land use and boundaries IIRC), but I was too lazy to program the conversion script to take into account the OSM relationships needed to correctly tag the multipolygons (polygons with holes). Ant I still don't know if they would be rendered alright by both mapnik and or/p. So many things in the back burner... :-( Cheers, -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es Un ordenador no es un televisor ni un microondas, es una herramienta compleja. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] osm2go as yet another desktop tool?
Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: I'll just point out that I got the trunk version working fine on Ubuntu without modifications, so people shouldn't be afraid to try it out. There were two dependencies (dang, I should have written them down) and a simple make worked fine. Yep. The branch introduces no new code yet; all it really contains is some nice packaging stuff for a Debian/Ubuntu style DE, correct build- dependencies for that environment etc. A standard $ fakeroot debian/rules binary will do the right thing on the branch, and entirely the wrong thing in trunk. Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: This should build and run it on Ubuntu: [...] The osso and hildon stuff is Maemo-specific, and you don't need it for an Ubuntu build. You miss out on some nice dbus stuff to turn gpsd on and off and choice of project location using maemo-mapper, but that's all. -- Andrew Chadwick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM in top 100 websites
Yay. OSM appears in the 100 top sites for the year ahead list in UK's Guardian newspaper today: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/dec/18/internet-websites Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Manager of e-Learning Academic Development Centre for Educational Technology Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: ste...@mdx.ac.uk http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is anyone making public transport routing maps based onOpenStreetMap data?
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:31:46 -0800 Joe Hughes j...@headwayblog.com wrote: Hugh Barnes said: http://code.google.com/p/googletransitdatafeed/wiki/PublicFeeds Ewww, CSV serialisations requiring their own purpose-built validator … Like you say, we can build from it. Let's look through the fields/elements, but make something proper and scalable that leverages XML as it should. I can sympathize with your format prejudice, but GTFS is aimed at making things as easy as possible for the data provider, since getting the data in the first place is often the hardest part. I can sympathise with your pragmatism, and was starting realise that must be what's behind your choice. Sad but true. I still think while you can accept CSV, you should want to cast into XML pretty soon to make it nice to work with. Ultimately, it's possibly not that important. I should also point out that the validator also checks a lot of deeper semantic things related to transit timetable logic, not just syntactic issues. AFAIK most complex validations can be done with the standard XML toolkit. If you haven't already, you should look at Schematron. If you can express a constraint as a boolean XPath expression, the power is yours. As far as I'm aware, though, there's been more detailed transit data opened to the public in GTFS than in any other format, and it'd be great to get the relevant parts of that into OSM. Yep, or to an offshoot data set or wherever. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoBase nodes import
Thanks Tom D, storage requirements, which is why I have concerns about creating tens of millions of nodes which have many duplicated tags or which will wind up never being used and will just be deleted again. If it's only 10 tiles of 12539, why bother with importing anything at all for those 10 tiles automatically and instead have those areas manually merged in? What about just importing the nodes for these 10 tiles? This way, the mappers in these areas, can go down to the next level of detail, and add in more features like building outlines, grass areas, things that were missed. .. but having them as nodes so they don't mess up the map. For the 100 where roads would be omitted, surely again a manual merge of that road data for those 100 would be the best solution... Then, as Tom says, you only have to share the OSM files for the data to the people who are taking responsibility for massaging the data in rather than putting in This happened for the AND import... but for Canada, i think we'd like something better. (if possible) And so, im not sure that the local are mappers would want to have a manual merge (wiping out what they did, importing all the roads, then slowely bringing back the OSM roads if any are needed) By having the roads which were not mapped available as nodes to be traced, we are not wiping out what the mapper did. The mapper takes priority :) And yes, for the 10-100 tiles, there is no need to import just the nodes for everything else... as this everything else will be imported as shape/line files. ... and so having just the nodes for the roads to be traced would make sense here. And for the 100 - 12,539, your both right. there would be no need to have a big Canada node-dump. For the updates- These are available as a much smaller file size, so having the nodes available, so as mappers see them, they can be manually flipped to an OSM map feature. (flipped=most of the GeoBase reference removed, accept the created by:tag) For nodes on nodes- i think this would only be in the few cases where the OSM mapper was identical to the import. Thanks for the help in re-defining what the idea is :) Now just to translate it for the wiki (but i think i'll wait a day or so for more feed-back from others. Hopefully this makes a little more sense, :) Sam Vekemans Across Canada Trails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] osm2go as yet another desktop tool?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 03:07:30AM +, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: There's a Debian port taking shape in branches/ports/debian which is of relevance to this thread. /me suddenly gains an interest I'd already got an svn checkout but hadn't got as far as doing anything with it. I can at least make sure things build on Lenny and Sid. Note that the debian port isn't about making things run on Debian. It's about integrating with the debian menu and other debian-ish things. If you just want to run it on Debian checking out trunk and typing `make' will work just fine. Yep, fine. I’d much rather have a package build that works than a self‐compiled install. Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] buildings and roads
Equally roads don't usually run over buildings - which could be case if reversed. Basically auto-rendering of these two can not be correct for all cases/zooms. Needs intelligence to say nudge that building away from the road in this instance - later? Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Manager of e-Learning Academic Development Centre for Educational Technology Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: ste...@mdx.ac.uk http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ _ From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Mixter Sent: 17 December 2008 05:50 To: openstreetmap Subject: [OSM-talk] buildings and roads Just wondering. Shouldn't buildings be rendered behind roads. Currently buildings are drawn above a road when the road is wide like a highway or major road. Obviously buildings don't cut into roads. If the road layer is on top this won't happen. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Collecting public transportation time tables
On 18 Dec 2008, at 10:49, Hugh Barnes wrote: On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:30:31 + OJ W ojwli...@googlemail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:40 PM, Andy Street m...@andystreet.me.uk wrote: On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 19:59 +, OJ W wrote: How about making an iphone app where people can just type in I just saw the 555 bus go past? After a few samples you have a timetable. Not if they run their services like one or two bus companies I know! ;o) I suppose it could be quite interesting to compare the official timetables to crowd-sourced data to see who would be the most accurate. I used to catch a train which was exactly 15 minutes late every day (for a year or more). Writing down when it actually leaves rather than when the timetable says it should leave, would be quite useful for someone planning to take that train... I have been thinking along these lines and collected time-stamped tickets for some time. I plan to plot them to get average realistic arrival times. I suspect it might actually be telling transport planners data they don't know. It might also (rightly) embarrass them, though that's not my specific intent (unless it makes them improve the service or publish timetables they can keep to). They're certainly not interested when I take the trouble to complain. I have considered using a microblogging service something like identi.ca (or a clone based on laconi.ca) for the real-time crowdsourcing part. So we might even be able to increase the visibility of punctuality data and affect improvements. This website collected information from delayed passengers about train arrival times and then makes it available to others (and also makes it easy to claim compensation for delayed trains). Could there be an overlap with OSM at some point, or a child of OSM with real time streaming GPS data from phones etc. http://www.traindelays.co.uk/ Btw, who should I email to get our own list? Peter All very exciting. Yes, let's get a room, er, list for this. :~) Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoBase nodes import
Doesn't get my vote. If it's a feature already why would we want to have to recreate it manually. Also by just importing nodes how can we visually/easily tell what nodes relate to what feature, especially if features overlap or cross. I can understand the difficulty in adding new data into already mapped areas, but if this import process is done by tile for instance then the local user can specifically ask for the import and can work on clean-up tile by tile (or other logical area) or decide that the data for that area is already good enough and doesn't need the addition of the geobase data. Just because we have another source of data doesn't mean to say that our data isn't as good or better for specific locations. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Sam Vekemans Sent: 17 December 2008 8:09 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org; talk...@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] GeoBase nodes import Hi all, On the talk-ca list we are comparing the differences similarities between this project the TIGER import. I wanted to float the idea (to the general talk list) about importing the full data base that is available, not as shapes/ways/lines, but as nodes which show what map features the node represents. So for example, importing a park (in a mapped area) we would just show the outline dots of the park, and the user can connect the dots and show it the 'right' way osm-style. This would ensure that accuracy is there as well as alow updates as these updates would be directly ontop of the old one. These imported nodes would be then used as reference (like colour coded snap points) Is there a way that josm is able to allow the user to click on the space where the node is and select which node they want to use to attach the line/area/relation they are working with? Is there a way to make sure that these nodes dont get rendered? In the case of address range, what if these lines are shown as 1 side of the property outline? Thanks, Sam Vekemans Across Canada Trails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1854 - Release Date: 17/12/2008 7:21 PM ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] buildings and roads
On 18 Dec 2008, at 10:52, Steve Chilton wrote: Equally roads don’t usually run over buildings – which could be case if reversed. Basically auto-rendering of these two can not be correct for all cases/zooms. Needs intelligence to say “nudge that building away from the road in this instance” – later? Surely this is just a great example demonstrating that catography is harder than it seems at first sight. The problem is that the roads are not draw to their real width and therefore the building must be nudged or shrunk so as not to collide with the super-wide roads as rendered. What we should not do is move the building outlines on the ground to make the rendering work, as far as I am concerned it is a rendering problem even if it is a hard one. Regards, Peter Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Manager of e-Learning Academic Development Centre for Educational Technology Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: ste...@mdx.ac.uk http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/ chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org ] On Behalf Of Nathan Mixter Sent: 17 December 2008 05:50 To: openstreetmap Subject: [OSM-talk] buildings and roads Just wondering. Shouldn't buildings be rendered behind roads. Currently buildings are drawn above a road when the road is wide like a highway or major road. Obviously buildings don't cut into roads. If the road layer is on top this won't happen. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in top 100 websites
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 10:24:29AM +, Steve Chilton wrote: OSM appears in the 100 top sites for the year ahead list in UK's Guardian newspaper today: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/dec/18/internet-websites I like the comment for Where’s the Path: “Let down by OS's absurd OpenSpace restrictions.” ☺ Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] buildings and roads
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 5:49 AM, Nathan Mixter srmix...@hotmail.com wrote: Just wondering. Shouldn't buildings be rendered behind roads. Not if the building is over the road http://picasaweb.google.com/hemrajpathare/CopenhagenPhotos#5225837680766253506 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Collecting public transportation time tables
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 03:19:02PM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote: Rather than try to centralize everything we know about the world into OSM, we would be better off figuring out how multiple databases can be tightly connected. There’s the added bonus that when you make a project independent from its data sources you get to use other sources more easily because you’ve not tied it to a particular format. I’m sure many would love OpenStreetMap to be _the_ source for free (libre) geodata. I would rather it be one of many. Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Collecting public transportation time tables
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:10 PM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote: I assure you public transport timetables are very complex and one most certainly can't implement it as tags to the OSM model. Given that we have * Unlimited numbers of key/value pairs per object * Recursivable objects (relations of relations of themselves) * RDF triples (relation roles means you can say subject A is a predicate B to object C) technically there's nothing that you can't represent in OSM! Whether you'd want to or not is a different matter. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] buildings and roads
OJ W wrote: Sent: 18 December 2008 11:19 AM To: Nathan Mixter Cc: openstreetmap Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] buildings and roads On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 5:49 AM, Nathan Mixter srmix...@hotmail.com wrote: Just wondering. Shouldn't buildings be rendered behind roads. Not if the building is over the road http://picasaweb.google.com/hemrajpathare/CopenhagenPhotos#5225837680766253 506 Will that's arguably a bridge with a building on top. Plenty of those examples. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulteney_Bridge is a good one. Its easy enough to create if you make an area and give it the bridge tag. The building/buildings then sit within the outline. Then it just needs some more styles adding to the render style sheets. Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1854 - Release Date: 17/12/2008 7:21 PM ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] buildings and roads
Or literally through the building ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate_Tower_Building This case is also interesting when it comes to tagging layers. what takes precedence in rendering, the road or the building? OJ W wrote: On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 5:49 AM, Nathan Mixter srmix...@hotmail.com wrote: Just wondering. Shouldn't buildings be rendered behind roads. Not if the building is over the road http://picasaweb.google.com/hemrajpathare/CopenhagenPhotos#5225837680766253506 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk begin:vcard fn:Patrick Weber n:;Patrick Weber org:University College London;Department of Management Science and Innovation adr:;;Gower Street;London;;WC1E 6BT;United Kingdom title:Engineering Doctorate Student tel;cell:+44 (0) 7854840450 note;quoted-printable:Skype: think_petz=0D=0A= LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pweber version:2.1 end:vcard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in top 100 websites
I like the comment for Where’s the Path: “Let down by OS's absurd OpenSpace restrictions.” and if you try clicking on that site, you'll discover it's let down by what appears to be a restriction on the number of page hits imposed by OS. Presumably that limit has been reached today as a result of the guardian effect, a lesser-known sibling of the slashdot effect. I don't see how a site with such restrictions (admittedly imposed from outside the site itself) can belong in the top 100 list. :-) Donald ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoBase nodes import
2008/12/17 Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com: So for example, importing a park (in a mapped area) we would just show the outline dots of the park, and the user can connect the dots and show it the 'right' way osm-style. So we would discard the knowledge of the sequence in which the nodes should be added to the ways? This seems like a bad idea. I've encountered irregular shapes before where having the nodes does not show clearly in which order to connect them. And that's leaving aside the fact that there's an awful lot of work involved in this. Far better to push forward with some of the JOSM enhancements proposed to allow easier management (through hiding) of clutter. Doing this, you could happily namespace the imported ways and users not actively involved with the de-duping task could simply hide them. Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Buildings and roads
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es wrote: Well, there is still a lot of data to import (land use and boundaries IIRC), but I was too lazy to program the conversion script to take into account the OSM relationships needed to correctly tag the multipolygons (polygons with holes). Ant I still don't know if they would be rendered alright by both mapnik and or/p. So many things in the back burner... :-( where can these boundary data be found? -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in top 100 websites
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 04:17:24AM -0800, Donald Allwright wrote: I like the comment for Where’s the Path: “Let down by OS's absurd OpenSpace restrictions.” and if you try clicking on that site, you'll discover it's let down by what appears to be a restriction on the number of page hits imposed by OS. Presumably that limit has been reached today as a result of the guardian effect, a lesser-known sibling of the slashdot effect. I don't see how a site with such restrictions (admittedly imposed from outside the site itself) can belong in the top 100 list. :-) They do have a Mapnik option, give them some credit. ☺ Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Collecting public transportation time tables
I used to catch a train which was exactly 15 minutes late every day (for a year or more). Writing down when it actually leaves rather than when the timetable says it should leave, would be quite useful for someone planning to take that train... Sounds like the dreaded 17:35 from Bath to Southampton in the late 90s Oh, and it was booked for 4 coaches too, but regularly had half that number Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is anyone making public transport routing maps basedon OpenStreetMap data?
I think that would be an excellent idea, however don't assume transit authorities will always give you the data because they often won't for various reasons. There is not however a problem as far as I know in people collecting their own timetable information from printed material and entering it into a common DV. What would be needed would be a repository and a way of entering data. Some sort of AJAXy thing where an incomplete timetable is presented then people fill in the data (with operations available to repeat every hour) sounds good. GTFS is probably a good starting point. Some data is already available from authorities in that format. I do expect that more official data may be donated in time, but people might need to be prepared to do it the hard way first. Personally I also think it would be good to provide a way for people to enter old timetables. I have a bradshaws 1921 railway timetable and there is also a reprint for 1910. I am sure some people would love to enter it into a DB so that could produce station maps and do journey planning for the old network! Are you in favour of a new list to discuss these sorts of things? Yes, sounds a good idea. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is anyone making public transport routing maps basedon OpenStreetMap data?
On 18 Dec 2008, at 13:46, Nick Whitelegg wrote: I think that would be an excellent idea, however don't assume transit authorities will always give you the data because they often won't for various reasons. There is not however a problem as far as I know in people collecting their own timetable information from printed material and entering it into a common DV. What would be needed would be a repository and a way of entering data. Some sort of AJAXy thing where an incomplete timetable is presented then people fill in the data (with operations available to repeat every hour) sounds good. Personally I am reasonably convinced by the arguments being put forward that any sort of collection of timetable data may be open to challenge within Europe under the DB directive. I notice however that lots of PT data has been released in the USA under freedom of information act which is a curious thing to have to do to find when the buses run. For example http://www.gtfs-data-exchange.com/agency/port-authority-trans-hudson/ I suggest that this is another reason to keen the PT data separate from the OSM data. I was wondering however, if any of the authorities in gtfs-data- exchange would mind their data about the positioning of bus stops to be imported into OSM. Might be worth asking them at some point. The current bus stop positions are sometimes not that accurate in the official data. The data for Davis often puts bus stops in the middle of houses for example. Regards, Peter GTFS is probably a good starting point. Some data is already available from authorities in that format. I do expect that more official data may be donated in time, but people might need to be prepared to do it the hard way first. Personally I also think it would be good to provide a way for people to enter old timetables. I have a bradshaws 1921 railway timetable and there is also a reprint for 1910. I am sure some people would love to enter it into a DB so that could produce station maps and do journey planning for the old network! Are you in favour of a new list to discuss these sorts of things? Yes, sounds a good idea. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Request for a new 'talk-transit' email list
Could someone who is able to please set up a new 'talk-transit' list with the description 'For discussion of public transport/transit related topics including rail/bus/tram/ferry/paratransit/shared taxis etc' I am happy to be an administrator for it if one is needed and no doubt others would be as well. Regards, Peter (PeterIto) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:57 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Karl Newman siliconfi...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe we need a tag for cultural value :-P Or use the admin_level tag. Pieren That wouldn't work in this case, because as the OP mentioned, San Jose and San Francisco have equal admin_level rankings (county seat) and San Jose is larger in both area and population. As an aside, San Francisco is unique in the USA (as far as I know) in that the city and county have the same extents. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Pompeii - the coming home
Hi, after about 10 days from the first OSM archeo mapping party, the first CC-BY-SA map of the ruined and partially buried Roman city near modern Naples (Italy) is emerging from Mapnik. Here you can find some results of our work (which is not finished yet): http://geo.topf.org/comparison/index.html?mt0=googlemapmt1=mapniklon=14.4890571lat=40.7504594z=16 PS: a polemical note: pay attention to those teleatlas roads on the left (google), they are wrongly tagged as being normal roads interconnected with the street network, instead they are 2000 years old cobble stones for pedestrian use only. We ended up being 15 people, some experienced (and long time) mappers, and some new additions. Some coming all the way through Italy to attend the event. It was fabulous! Lasted all day long, and ended up with an hot chocolate. I have to say that there is a desperate need for an archaeological set of tags in order to be able to describe these locations on a more ordered way. Some pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/leron/sets/72157610859291991/ -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
Karl Newman wrote: That wouldn't work in this case, because as the OP mentioned, San Jose and San Francisco have equal admin_level rankings (county seat) and San Jose is larger in both area and population. As an aside, San Francisco is unique in the USA (as far as I know) in that the city and county have the same extents. Philadelphia is like this, too. It is the county seat of Philadelphia County http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_County,_Pennsylvania (with which it is coterminous) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 6:37 AM, Adam Killian vi...@bonius.com wrote: Karl Newman wrote: That wouldn't work in this case, because as the OP mentioned, San Jose and San Francisco have equal admin_level rankings (county seat) and San Jose is larger in both area and population. As an aside, San Francisco is unique in the USA (as far as I know) in that the city and county have the same extents. Philadelphia is like this, too. It is the county seat of Philadelphia County http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_County,_Pennsylvania (with which it is coterminous) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia Hey, I learned something today. Guess I can stay home now. ;-) Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Pompeii - the coming home
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Simone Cortesi after about 10 days from the first OSM archeo mapping party, the first CC-BY-SA map of the ruined and partially buried Roman city near modern Naples (Italy) is emerging from Mapnik. Really very nice work ! I have to say that there is a desperate need for an archaeological set of tags in order to be able to describe these locations on a more ordered way. A good time to create a WikiProject Archaeological Sites page on the wiki ? Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Buildings and roads
El Jueves, 18 de Diciembre de 2008, Simone Cortesi escribió: where can these boundary data be found? The details can be found over here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Philippines_Data_Import#Naga Cheers, -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es Dijo: Yo soy feliz. Naturalmente se trataba de un necio. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
El Jueves, 18 de Diciembre de 2008, Karl Newman escribió: Maybe we need a tag for cultural value :-P Or use the admin_level tag. That wouldn't work in this case, because as the OP mentioned, San Jose and San Francisco have equal admin_level rankings (county seat) and San Jose is larger in both area and population. So, cultural_level tag? -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es You will be run over by a bus. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoBase nodes import
Hi, Sam Vekemans wrote: And so, im not sure that the local are mappers would want to have a manual merge (wiping out what they did, importing all the roads, then slowely bringing back the OSM roads if any are needed) By having the roads which were not mapped available as nodes to be traced, we are not wiping out what the mapper did. There are many other options you could consider. For example, we have just received data for all tertiary and bigger roads for one of the largest German Länder, North Rhine-Westphalia. We have already got a lot of mapping done in that area; my guess is that of the 20.000 km of roads they have given us, probably only about 10% are actually still missing in OSM, and another 20-30% can be very effectively used to improve existing geometry. (The import is described, in German, on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue/Strassen_NRW). This is not a high-profile project like the GeoBase import is, so we wanted to do something with little effort. We settled on loading all data into a WMS server which can be accessed through the OSM Inspector tool (http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=strassennrw) or directly as a background layer in JOSM so if there are small corrections or omissions, people can just trace them off the WMS in JOSM. (It would also be relatively easy to provide a tile server with these data in case one wanted to have it in Potlatch.) In addition, for those cases where somebody spots a larger item that is missing in our data, we have provided simple .osm files for every section of road, and these can be downloaded individually. So if you spot a certain road segment on the map and find it's not in OSM yet, you can simply download the corresponding .osm file and merge it into JOSM. The OSM inspector view will also directly give you the URL for the download if you click on an item. This was relatively easy to set up (partly because we're dealing with roads which are fairly uniform compared to a whole set of different features). It would probably not be too difficult to enhance JOSM to auto-download such an .osm snippet on request (i.e. click on something in the inspector view, then click add to my running JOSM session or so), or to change the whole system to use data tiles instead of road fragments or so. The whole thing is designed to be computer assisted manual import; there's no automatic import here because our map is simply not empty enough for that. - If the situation in Canada is similar then you might consider something along these lines. If you have many empty spots then maybe you need more automatism though. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 7:29 AM, Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.eswrote: El Jueves, 18 de Diciembre de 2008, Karl Newman escribió: Maybe we need a tag for cultural value :-P Or use the admin_level tag. That wouldn't work in this case, because as the OP mentioned, San Jose and San Francisco have equal admin_level rankings (county seat) and San Jose is larger in both area and population. So, cultural_level tag? Ah, yes, I can see it now. The values could range from Barkada, Arkansas to Paris, France (Apologies to residents of Barkada) Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es wrote: El Jueves, 18 de Diciembre de 2008, Karl Newman escribió: Maybe we need a tag for cultural value :-P Or use the admin_level tag. So, cultural_level tag? Nothing more subjective ? ;-) Say the truth : we need a tag for rendering in case of name collision when the category (city) and admin_level (county seat) are the same (forget population which is even worst in this example). Just an idea : why not reusing the tag layer applying for same place levels ? San Francisco node: layer=1 Daly City node: (layer can be ommited) Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 4:59 PM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: Nothing more subjective ? ;-) Say the truth : we need a tag for rendering in case of name collision when the category (city) and admin_level (county seat) are the same (forget population which is even worst in this example). Just an idea : why not reusing the tag layer applying for same place levels ? San Francisco node: layer=1 Daly City node: (layer can be ommited) what happens if the place point happens to be in the area of a building that hosts the city hall, is a brige, has two ways that pass through it, crosses a river and below it there are a couple subway lines? ok, not that likely, but I wouldn't use a tag with a different meaning when we can just add another specific one; either based on some hard data (e.g. economic_activity), or clearly marked as a render hint (render:priority, maybe?) -- Elena of Valhalla homepage: http://www.trueelena.org email: elena.valha...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Karl Newman siliconfi...@gmail.com wrote: That's the sort of thing automated renderers have difficulty sorting out. Maybe we need a tag for cultural value :-P (I would hazard a guess that San Jose has a larger economic impact, though.) I have suggested that the number of values for the hamlet/village/town/city hiearchy is incerased. Adding major_* and minor_* for village, town and city could be one way to solve some of the problems. - Gustav ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es wrote: El Jueves, 18 de Diciembre de 2008, Karl Newman escribió: Maybe we need a tag for cultural value :-P Or use the admin_level tag. So, cultural_level tag? Nothing more subjective ? ;-) Say the truth : we need a tag for rendering in case of name collision when the category (city) and admin_level (county seat) are the same (forget population which is even worst in this example). Just an idea : why not reusing the tag layer applying for same place levels ? San Francisco node: layer=1 Daly City node: (layer can be ommited) Pieren The discussion was between San Francisco and San Jose. The Daly City strangeness could be fixed by checking population. (Daly City ~100k, San Francisco ~800k). If we're going to tag for the renderer, why not just do it explicitly and call it render_priority (instead of abusing another tag with a different purpose)? Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Gustav Foseid gust...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Karl Newman siliconfi...@gmail.comwrote: That's the sort of thing automated renderers have difficulty sorting out. Maybe we need a tag for cultural value :-P (I would hazard a guess that San Jose has a larger economic impact, though.) I have suggested that the number of values for the hamlet/village/town/city hiearchy is incerased. Adding major_* and minor_* for village, town and city could be one way to solve some of the problems. - Gustav You're still missing the point about San Jose--it's larger in both area and population (and probably in economic activity as well), and is located within an hour's drive of San Francisco, but San Francisco is better known around the world and should arguably take priority in rendering. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is anyone making public transport routing maps basedon OpenStreetMap data?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote: I think that would be an excellent idea, however don't assume transit authorities will always give you the data because they often won't for various reasons. There is not however a problem as far as I know in people collecting their own timetable information from printed material and entering it into a common DV. What would be needed would be a repository and a way of entering data. Some sort of AJAXy thing where an incomplete timetable is presented then people fill in the data (with operations available to repeat every hour) sounds good. You can't crowdsource a timetable. You can't crowdsource the future without objective evidence. You can, however, crowdsource what has happened in the past, and use it to make list of when the trains usually used to run. But I have absolutely no interest in an application that says trains usually ran on a Sunday at 10.35am up until last weekend because I actually want to go *this* Sunday and I want to know when the trains are *going* to be running, which is in the future and the timetable changed this week[1]. So as far as I'm concerned, the only really useful source of timetables is whoever operates the service. Cheers, Andy [1] hypothetically, but actually did quite recently for the UK rail network, which is a useful illustration. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OpenSantaMap
One of the main strengths of OpenStreetMap is that we have access to the raw data, and one of the best ways we can illustrate this power, whilst also reinforcing the idea that the map is just a rendering of the data, is to create custom renders. Great examples of these are the Mapnik and ti...@home maps, Cloudmade's mobile tiles, and of course the award winning OpenCycleMap. And now, as there has been some talk about a fun seasonal render, OpenSantaMap, I have started a wiki page for us to add our thoughts. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSantaMap Some ideas to get the (snow)ball rolling: Snowflake background. Using the Unicode snowman character ☃ . Changing colours to more gaudy red/green scheme. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Karl Newman siliconfi...@gmail.com wrote: You're still missing the point about San Jose--it's larger in both area and population (and probably in economic activity as well), and is located within an hour's drive of San Francisco, but San Francisco is better known around the world and should arguably take priority in rendering. My idea was that major_ could be used for a city of greater importance of some kind. Someone also suggested a value metropolis for the large metropolitan areas. I do not agree that using population or area is a good way to solve this problem. Finding population data for all named places is not easy (this problem extends beyond the largest cities) and population is not necessarily a good way to find the most important place name in an area. - Gustav ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Karl Newman siliconfi...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 6:37 AM, Adam Killian vi...@bonius.com wrote: Karl Newman wrote: That wouldn't work in this case, because as the OP mentioned, San Jose and San Francisco have equal admin_level rankings (county seat) and San Jose is larger in both area and population. As an aside, San Francisco is unique in the USA (as far as I know) in that the city and county have the same extents. Philadelphia is like this, too. It is the county seat of Philadelphia County http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_County,_Pennsylvania (with which it is coterminous) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia Hey, I learned something today. Guess I can stay home now. ;-) Also, when cities in VA become large enough, they become their own county and seat. Cheers, Adam ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Gustav Foseid gust...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Karl Newman siliconfi...@gmail.comwrote: You're still missing the point about San Jose--it's larger in both area and population (and probably in economic activity as well), and is located within an hour's drive of San Francisco, but San Francisco is better known around the world and should arguably take priority in rendering. My idea was that major_ could be used for a city of greater importance of some kind. Someone also suggested a value metropolis for the large metropolitan areas. I do not agree that using population or area is a good way to solve this problem. Finding population data for all named places is not easy (this problem extends beyond the largest cities) and population is not necessarily a good way to find the most important place name in an area. - Gustav Sure it is. If a lot of people want to live in a place, in general that should make it more notable. Besides, I was only suggesting using population as a tiebreaker for equal place key values. It's not the final answer, but it's objective and it goes a long way toward fixing the problem. I don't like your _major and _minor suffixes because they imply different population, which is not how you described it. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:12 PM, Elena of Valhalla elena.valha...@gmail.com wrote: ok, not that likely, but I wouldn't use a tag with a different meaning when we can just add another specific one; Is that really so different ? It is a renderer issue. Mapnik decides to not draw one of the names in case of collision. But another renderer could make it differently, drawing a name above the other, or using smaller font, etc... Of course, layer has not to be used in a general context but only in something like this: if (A.place is not equal to B.place) select A or B else if (A.admin_level is not equal to B.admin_level select A or B else //A.admin_level = B.admin_level select highest A or B layer Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Karl Newman siliconfi...@gmail.com wrote: Sure it is. If a lot of people want to live in a place, in general that should make it more notable. Besides, I was only suggesting using population as a tiebreaker for equal place key values. It's not the final answer, but it's objective and it goes a long way toward fixing the problem. I don't like your _major and _minor suffixes because they imply different population, which is not how you described it. How do you suggest we find population for places? I can tell that a town is a regional center, without having to know it's population. Maybe major/minor is not the best names, however. How many values should we have for populated places? We have 4 now (hamlet/village/town/city). Should we add more? Reduce to fewer? Maybe just one? - Gustav ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 9:05 AM, Gustav Foseid gust...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Karl Newman siliconfi...@gmail.comwrote: Sure it is. If a lot of people want to live in a place, in general that should make it more notable. Besides, I was only suggesting using population as a tiebreaker for equal place key values. It's not the final answer, but it's objective and it goes a long way toward fixing the problem. I don't like your _major and _minor suffixes because they imply different population, which is not how you described it. How do you suggest we find population for places? I can tell that a town is a regional center, without having to know it's population. Maybe major/minor is not the best names, however. How many values should we have for populated places? We have 4 now (hamlet/village/town/city). Should we add more? Reduce to fewer? Maybe just one? - Gustav Well, in the US, the population for cities is posted on the city limit signs. Or widely available in the internet, etc. Understand that this wouldn't be necessary for most places. If the population tag is missing, then we just get the behavior we have now, which isn't terrible but could be improved. I would argue for more granularity in place values. It's dominated on the low end of population (everything over 100k population is a city). And to me, there's plenty of room to subdivide town, too--there's a big difference in a place with 10,000 people vs. 99,999 people. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is anyone making public transport routing maps based onOpenStreetMap data?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 2:41 AM, Hugh Barnes list@hughbris.com wrote: I can sympathise with your pragmatism, and was starting realise that must be what's behind your choice. Sad but true. I still think while you can accept CSV, you should want to cast into XML pretty soon to make it nice to work with. Ultimately, it's possibly not that important. Public transport schedule data tends to be so voluminous that nice to work with generally means putting it into a database in any case. However, for those who are more comfortable working with XML, there's GTFS-to-TransXChange conversion code by Joachim Pheiffer in the GoogleTransitDataFeed open-source project: http://code.google.com/p/googletransitdatafeed/ Additionally, Nick Knowles and our own Peter Miller have done some interesting work attempting to reconcile the implicit GTFS data model with TransModel--Peter, is your latest document publicly available online somewhere? Devising an XML schema that allowed lossless conversion to and from GTFS would be an interesting project. Joe ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
Gustav wrote: How many values should we have for populated places? We have 4 now (hamlet/village/town/city). Should we add more? Reduce to fewer? Maybe just one? Perhaps something could be done similar to boundary with so many admin_levels and some sort of default mapping from the existing 4 places to their new numeric equivalent (a bit like footway and some combination of tags including highway=path are equivalent as far as I can tell). This would allow areas around the world to use intermediate levels should they wish to, if their societal structure makes such use appropriate. I'd probably add suburb somewhere between town and village, and allow perhaps 2 spare levels between each of those 5 categories, and perhaps a couple either side as well, though can't imagine what gets smaller than hamlet - isolated house perhaps? Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is anyone making public transport routing maps basedon OpenStreetMap data?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote: I was wondering however, if any of the authorities in gtfs-data- exchange would mind their data about the positioning of bus stops to be imported into OSM. Might be worth asking them at some point. The current bus stop positions are sometimes not that accurate in the official data. The data for Davis often puts bus stops in the middle of houses for example. In my experience, transit agency folks are most concerned by the idea of others disseminating out-of-date/inaccurate information (as well as generally losing control of their brand), and ultimately the OSM project should be able to use this to its advantage. You correctly point out that licensing could be a challenge; even the GTFS data that's been intentionally released to the public is generally under custom licenses that were derived from what the other agencies have done. There's real work to be done to find terms that will meet the needs of both OSM and the transit agencies. You could go around making agreements agency-by-agency, but coming up with a standard open transit data license that agencies find palatable is a much juicier point of leverage for changing this world. Joe ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] osm2go as yet another desktop tool?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Simon Ward si...@bleah.co.uk wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 03:07:30AM +, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: There's a Debian port taking shape in branches/ports/debian which is of relevance to this thread. just tested, very promising ! and works like a charm on sid... I got a segfault using the wms layer from NASA -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : ste...@jabber.fr 0x39494CCB ste...@le-roux.info 2FF7 226B 552E 4709 03F0 6281 72D7 A010 3949 4CCB ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] (no subject)
That is the rare exception. Not the norm On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 5:49 AM, Nathan Mixter srmix...@hotmail.com wrote: Just wondering. Shouldn't buildings be rendered behind roads. Not if the building is over the road http://picasaweb.google.com/hemrajpathare/CopenhagenPhotos#5225837680766253506 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenSantaMap
I hope these flies. We are only a style sheet away from making topical maps. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Tim Waters (chippy) Sent: 18 December 2008 4:38 PM To: Talk Openstreetmap Subject: [OSM-talk] OpenSantaMap One of the main strengths of OpenStreetMap is that we have access to the raw data, and one of the best ways we can illustrate this power, whilst also reinforcing the idea that the map is just a rendering of the data, is to create custom renders. Great examples of these are the Mapnik and ti...@home maps, Cloudmade's mobile tiles, and of course the award winning OpenCycleMap. And now, as there has been some talk about a fun seasonal render, OpenSantaMap, I have started a wiki page for us to add our thoughts. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSantaMap Some ideas to get the (snow)ball rolling: Snowflake background. Using the Unicode snowman character ? . Changing colours to more gaudy red/green scheme. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1854 - Release Date: 17/12/2008 7:21 PM ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Errors or not errors?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:43 PM, Tomas Straupis tomasstrau...@gmail.com wrote: Hello While fixing some validation errors I've found an interesting case and would like to get your opinion on how to deal with it. There is a school stadium mapped. Stadium has a usual oval and two starting tails. It is mapped as leisure|track and validators seem to assume these have to be closed areas (which is true in most cases). http://keepright.ipax.at/report_map.php?ch30=30lat=54.69444lon=25.20876zoom=17requery=requerylayers=0BT In this example stadium is made up from two ways. In some other instances it could be made of one way having an extra line (something like letter Q). Here's how I mapped the track and stadium at Clemson. http://informationfreeway.org/?lat=34.6731104994216lon=-82.85002502785902zoom=17layers=BF000F Cheers, Adam This kind of mapping is rendered ok in osmarender and garmin map created with mkgmap but is NOT rendered in mapnik. Does anybody have any experience dealing with such kind of problems? Should these stadiums be mapped in a different way or should validators be updated? Thank you P.S. keepright is not the only validator identifying this as an error. -- Tomas Straupis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote: Perhaps something could be done similar to boundary with so many admin_levels and some sort of default mapping from the existing 4 places to their new numeric equivalent (a bit like footway and some combination of tags including highway=path are equivalent as far as I can tell). This would allow areas around the world to use intermediate levels should they wish to, if their societal structure makes such use appropriate. That could be an option, but it is not backwards compatible. It would, however, make it easior to adapt to various cultures. The place name structure must work in a number of different situations, just to mention a few: - A metropolis like Tokyo or Los Angeles, often constisting of what is considered a number of smaller cities. - An island like Crete, where the mountains are literally scattered with little towns and hamlets quite close together (example from Douglas Furlong in another thread). - Norwegian rural areas, where villages are just areas where the houses are somewhat closer than outside of villages. I'd probably add suburb somewhere between town and village, and allow perhaps 2 spare levels between each of those 5 categories, and perhaps a couple either side as well, though can't imagine what gets smaller than hamlet - isolated house perhaps? Regions within a town or city is of course another problem, with only suburb available today. - Gustav ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
Karl Newman wrote: As an aside, San Francisco is unique in the USA (as far as I know) in that the city and county have the same extents. Oh, so THAT'S why San Francisco's unique! I've always wondered. ;) -Beej, proud Bay Area citizen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] getting ewms to work?
Hi, I use josm for my editing but hadn't used it for a while - in particular, the yahoo imagery with the wms plugin. So I rather dumbly thought I should upgrade the wms plugin before I started, without checking if that was ok. Now I find it is no longer using firefox, but webkit. I'm really unclear about how to set it up to work, and the wiki page is pretty minimal. It recommends installing gnome-web-photo, for which there isn't a stable version for my computer (running gentoo). Same with webkit-gtk. Does anyone have the new version running on gentoo? Talk me through it? (off-list, I guess). Alternatively, is there a copy of the old plugin I can revert to anywhere? Thanks Graham ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik
As a datapoint, Google renders SF and SJ the same way until you zoom out far enough, and then SJ disappears. FWIW, -Beej Strange. In the catholic hierarchy, San Jose (Jesus' father) is clearly above San Francisco (merely an italian saint) Lucas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] getting ewms to work?
Hi, graham wrote: Does anyone have the new version running on gentoo? Not me, but the SVN (svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/editors/josm/plugins/wmsplugin) has a webkit-image.cpp that you can compile and use if you want. Alternatively, is there a copy of the old plugin I can revert to anywhere? Since we commit the plugin .jar files to SVN, you can easily retrieve any past version of wmsplugin.jar from svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/editors/josm/dist. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] uh ho... paranoia abounds
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/18/2047203 chrb writes Following on from the discussion about Apple disabling GPS in Egyptian iPhones, we have a new case of the conflict between the traditional secrecy of government, and the widening availability of cheap, accurate GPS devices around the world. On 5th December, two software engineers employed by Biond Software in India were arrested for mapping highways using vehicle based GPS devices. Further evidence against the pair emerged when it was found that a laptop they had been using in the car contained some photos of the local airforce base. The company claims they had been commissioned by Nokia Navigator to create maps of local roads and terrain. Following an investigation by the Anti Terrorist Squad of Gujarat the cartographers have now been charged with violating the Official Secrets Act and will remain in custody. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Spam] Re: Is anyone making public transport routing maps basedonOpenStreetMap data?
On 18 Dec 2008, at 17:28, Joe Hughes wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 2:41 AM, Hugh Barnes list@hughbris.com wrote: I can sympathise with your pragmatism, and was starting realise that must be what's behind your choice. Sad but true. I still think while you can accept CSV, you should want to cast into XML pretty soon to make it nice to work with. Ultimately, it's possibly not that important. Public transport schedule data tends to be so voluminous that nice to work with generally means putting it into a database in any case. However, for those who are more comfortable working with XML, there's GTFS-to-TransXChange conversion code by Joachim Pheiffer in the GoogleTransitDataFeed open-source project: http://code.google.com/p/googletransitdatafeed/ Additionally, Nick Knowles and our own Peter Miller have done some interesting work attempting to reconcile the implicit GTFS data model with TransModel--Peter, is your latest document publicly available online somewhere? Devising an XML schema that allowed lossless conversion to and from GTFS would be an interesting project. Sorry for the delay Joe. We are just waiting for confirmation that we can publicise the document you refer to. I am sure there is not a problem, but we need to wait for a response before going ahead. Peter Joe ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Spam] Re: Is anyone making public transport routing mapsbasedon OpenStreetMap data?
On 18 Dec 2008, at 17:44, Joe Hughes wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote: I was wondering however, if any of the authorities in gtfs-data- exchange would mind their data about the positioning of bus stops to be imported into OSM. Might be worth asking them at some point. The current bus stop positions are sometimes not that accurate in the official data. The data for Davis often puts bus stops in the middle of houses for example. In my experience, transit agency folks are most concerned by the idea of others disseminating out-of-date/inaccurate information (as well as generally losing control of their brand), and ultimately the OSM project should be able to use this to its advantage. You correctly point out that licensing could be a challenge; even the GTFS data that's been intentionally released to the public is generally under custom licenses that were derived from what the other agencies have done. There's real work to be done to find terms that will meet the needs of both OSM and the transit agencies. You could go around making agreements agency-by-agency, but coming up with a standard open transit data license that agencies find palatable is a much juicier point of leverage for changing this world. Agreed. And I notice that Mikel Maron is involved in the OpenTransitData project you refer to that is trying to free up this data. A standard licence would of course be a great benefit and I for one have scratched my head after reading all the different terms on which the different GTFS feeds are published wondering which ones I could use for what. I suggest we start sketching out what that licence should look like. I hear the same concerns from operators. I therefore suggest that one of the basic terms should be that the user of the data should be accurately represented the information and should use current data for trip planning purposes etc. The output data should always give an indication of the period for which the timetable was valid. However for now we do have enough data for enough places to seed the innovation process (with products like Graphserver/ GoogleTransit etc) to build the 'killer-apps' that will draw the data out of more authorities over time. Regards, Peter Joe ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenSantaMap
I have bought opensantamap.org. Shaun On 18 Dec 2008, at 18:18, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: I hope these flies. We are only a style sheet away from making topical maps. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Tim Waters (chippy) Sent: 18 December 2008 4:38 PM To: Talk Openstreetmap Subject: [OSM-talk] OpenSantaMap One of the main strengths of OpenStreetMap is that we have access to the raw data, and one of the best ways we can illustrate this power, whilst also reinforcing the idea that the map is just a rendering of the data, is to create custom renders. Great examples of these are the Mapnik and ti...@home maps, Cloudmade's mobile tiles, and of course the award winning OpenCycleMap. And now, as there has been some talk about a fun seasonal render, OpenSantaMap, I have started a wiki page for us to add our thoughts. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSantaMap Some ideas to get the (snow)ball rolling: Snowflake background. Using the Unicode snowman character ? . Changing colours to more gaudy red/green scheme. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1854 - Release Date: 17/12/2008 7:21 PM ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] New mass imports over existing data
Hey all, This is sort of a general question with a specific example, namely, Marin County. Marin County (just north of the Golden Gate Bridge and San Francisco, California) already exists in OSM. It's made of bad TIGER data that has been partially corrected (by myself and others). Streams and trails have been added. Parks have been outlined. Now it has recently come to light that Marin County provides Free data covering the county, and this Free data is of excellent quality. Roads, trails, hydro, and even structure footprints are included. Now, there are a few courses of action I can imagine. 1. Indiscriminately blow away all of Marin and replace it with County data. If you made changes, tough luck. 2. Discriminately blow away specific pieces of the data and replace them with County data. For example, maybe just Mill Valley's roads could be replaced, because very little correction has been done there. 3. Using JOSM or somesuch, visually overlay the OSM data over the County data and manually adjust and add ways (cut-n-paste to add) as appropriate. I doubt there's a specific course of action that would work for all cases like we have in Marin County, but are there any other approaches people can think of, or pros or cons? -Beej ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Importing Government Data
Hi all, Such great feedback from my latest 'rant: importing GeoBase nodes' Thanks :) What this did was sparked some major issues that need to be addressed. I think this is more important, than going deeper on that rant. I created a new wiki page Importing Government Data http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Importing_Government_Data This is a way for us all can try to summerize the issues, and answer the questions that would (most likely) be asked from any country / region considering importing government data. The section i didn't expand on is about the scripts used in actually importing the data these can be shown on the page. (hopefully people can help out) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Government_Data_Import_Script Because there are a lot of overlap in the past discussions, hopefully this page will be able to compare the issues from TIGER AND, as well as the other import projects (that i'm not aware of) I hope that i touched on most of the issues raised. Please to edit the wiki page, and reply back, as comments are how this project will keep going :) I'll get back to you all when i figure out a better solution than the 'nodes import' idea. :) Cheers, Sam Vekemns Across Canada Trails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New mass imports over existing data
Use a powertool like JOSM to go over it and see how much has changed, and coordinate with the users who've made changes in that area. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New mass imports over existing data
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Beej Jorgensen b...@beej.us wrote: Hey all, This is sort of a general question with a specific example, namely, Marin County. Marin County (just north of the Golden Gate Bridge and San Francisco, California) already exists in OSM. It's made of bad TIGER data that has been partially corrected (by myself and others). Streams and trails have been added. Parks have been outlined. Now it has recently come to light that Marin County provides Free data covering the county, and this Free data is of excellent quality. Roads, trails, hydro, and even structure footprints are included. Now, there are a few courses of action I can imagine. 1. Indiscriminately blow away all of Marin and replace it with County data. If you made changes, tough luck. 2. Discriminately blow away specific pieces of the data and replace them with County data. For example, maybe just Mill Valley's roads could be replaced, because very little correction has been done there. 3. Using JOSM or somesuch, visually overlay the OSM data over the County data and manually adjust and add ways (cut-n-paste to add) as appropriate. I doubt there's a specific course of action that would work for all cases like we have in Marin County, but are there any other approaches people can think of, or pros or cons? -Beej Sonoma county (just to the north of Marin) seems to have free data available, too. As discussed with the Canada import, this would be a great opportunity to improve JOSM with tools for selective data merging. One of the better ideas I've seen is the possibility to copy individual elements from a GIS source layer to an OSM editing layer. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Errors or not errors?
2008/12/19 Tomas Straupis tomasstrau...@gmail.com Hello While fixing some validation errors I've found an interesting case and would like to get your opinion on how to deal with it. There is a school stadium mapped. Stadium has a usual oval and two starting tails. It is mapped as leisure|track and validators seem to assume these have to be closed areas (which is true in most cases). http://keepright.ipax.at/report_map.php?ch30=30lat=54.69444lon=25.20876zoom=17requery=requerylayers=0BT In this example stadium is made up from two ways. In some other instances it could be made of one way having an extra line (something like letter Q). This kind of mapping is rendered ok in osmarender and garmin map created with mkgmap but is NOT rendered in mapnik. Does anybody have any experience dealing with such kind of problems? Should these stadiums be mapped in a different way or should validators be updated? Thank you P.S. keepright is not the only validator identifying this as an error. leisure=track is defined as applying to nodes or areas... in this case you seem to have effectively applied it to linear ways... By the looks of it, osmarender at least has probably only rendered it because of it's features to try to correct broken areas... Adam, who has already replied has mapped one such that the outer boundary of the track is drawn and a hole drawn on the inner boundary of the track... I'd suggest that to correct these problems then the area should be turned into a contiguous area around the perimeter of the track such that the 'tails' have some actual width and are contained in way and area as the main oval section of track... d ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Importing Government Data
Cool :) what can be done is creating a section for all the options for importing government data - including the ones that were 'mud' but state 'why' it was rejected. Also list pending or aproved stuff I got a start; disaproved: blow away data and replace on-mass -slap on imported data create 'ghost lines' with existing data -import data as nodes with reference to what shape/line/point it is, keeping origional source designations :cause we want to protect the existing osm data, and place it as a higher priority :cause we dont want to fill up the data base with duplicate nodes pending: -cordinate locally, copy select elements with a custom script layer -use wms layer (rendered openlayer slippy map and trace -write protect imported data (nodes? If a host can be found to donate resource? approved: -tracing over josm wireframe -tracing over imagery -tracing over free openlayers -import only if it doesnt exist in the area Cheers, Sam Vekemans ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] National Park Marine Park boundaries
On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:41:59 +1100 Matt White mattwh...@iinet.com.au wrote: I have a sneaking suspicion that National Parks and State Forests are defined by acts of Parliament at the federal and state levels respectively, so the co-ord are probably in Hansard somewhere... Well, Hansard is just the transcriptions of parliament. I guess you mean the legislation. And you'd be right, but … We spoke about this at the 2nd Brisbane Mapping party. Apparently it's not as unambiguously phrased as you might hope. Perhaps someone else can fill in the details there. Here are the legislations listed: http://www.naa.gov.au/records-management/create-capture-describe/describe/agls/encoding-scheme-jurisdiction.aspx#section2 Cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] National Park Marine Park boundaries
Hugh Barnes wrote: On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:41:59 +1100 Matt White mattwh...@iinet.com.au wrote: I have a sneaking suspicion that National Parks and State Forests are defined by acts of Parliament at the federal and state levels respectively, so the co-ord are probably in Hansard somewhere... Well, Hansard is just the transcriptions of parliament. I guess you mean the legislation. And you'd be right, but … Too true. Guilty of emailing when pissed, your honour... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [Talk-de] osm2mp - routing von der commandozeile
hallo jürgen, bei mir war eine osminog.exe im verzeichnis ! wo hast du heruntergeladen ? gruß Jan :-) FrauSuhrbier schrieb: Jan Tappenbeck schrieb: Moin! wenn man das Programm für die Konvertierung von osm-mp (Routing) startet, dann kommt ein Dialog. Kann man den Vorgang auch per Kommandozeile steuern ?? und wenn wie unter WINDOWS ??? Gruß Jan :-) Halo Jan, das kann ich nicht nachvollziehen, OSM2MP ist ein Kommandozeilentool. Ich rufe es wie folgt (unter Windows) auf: perl c:\Programme\OSM\osm2mp\osm2mp.pl c:\tmp\data.osm c:\tmp\temp.mp Aber aufpassen, dass das TOol in dem Verzeichnis gestartet wird, wo die Config files liegen, oder über Parameter den Ort angeben. Darüber bin ich auch schon gestolpert. Gruß Jürgen -- Freundliche Grüße Jan Tappenbeck --- OpenStreetMap (OSM) - das FREIE Kartenprojekt http://www.openstreetmap.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Externe GPS-Antenne
addi...@gmx.net (Johann H. Addicks) writes: [...] Aber wenn man schon Aufwand für die Befestigung an einem erhöhten Standpunkt treibt, dann kann ich auch besser gleich etwas besseres als die übliche kleine 4x4cm² Planarantenne Cool, eine 16 cm^4 messende Antenne habe ich wirklich noch nie zu Gesicht bekommen. SCNR. oder die Fingerstummel-Helix benutzen. Ein gestocktes System mit mehreren Ringen (10-15cm Durchmesser) halte ich für potentiell besser, um Multipass-Effekte zu reduzieren. Auf dem Fahrrad wird das eher schwierig und auf anderen Straßenverkehrsfahrzeugen vermutlich auch. Gruß, Sebastian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Suche Fakten über OSM-Server
Für den Zahlen/Daten/Fakten-Teil der OSM-Presseinformation ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Presseteam/Presseinformation#Zahlen.2C_Daten.2C_Fakten ) suche ich Informationen über die Infrastruktur des Projektes (also Server usw.) Wo stehen die Server? Was wird verwendet? Wofür werden sie eingesetzt? usw. Mir ist http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Servers und http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Platform_Status bekannt. Danke und Gruß Torsten ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] JOSM - Fang von POI
Hallo ! da versucht man nun möglichst genau zu messen und beim Zeichen setzt man die Symbole per Maus solala auf die Markierungen. Wäre es nicht denkbar eine Art Objektfang zu erstellen der als Nodeeinfügepunkt dirkte den POI-Definitionspunkt fäßt. Vergleichbares ist ja schon beim Einfügen von Punkten in der Nähe von Linien vorhanden - der springt ja auch auf die Linie dann. ... oder gibt es das schon ? Gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Osm-Bug-Side in Deutsch
Hallo ! weiß einer von Euch wer die Bug-Seite pflegt? Wäre vielleicht ein deutschsprachiger Abschnitt ganz hilfreich. gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM: laden entlang eines Weges
Hallo, Gibt es seit dem 19.11. (Version 1086ff.) Man sollte häufiger updaten und sich die neuen Features ansehen ;-) Das Featuere ist noch etwas experimentell, aber Du kannst ja mal damit experimentieren ;-) Habe auch schon etwas gefunden was verbessert werden sollte. Ich hatte eine gpx-Track geladen, die OSM-Daten wurden dann in 47 Portionen geladen, dabei kam bei etwa 5 die Meldung, daß keine Daten geladen wurden. Diese Fehlermeldung sollte deaktiviert werden. Gruß Dimitri ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM: laden entlang eines Weges
Hallo Frederik, Gibt es seit dem 19.11. (Version 1086ff.) Ein herzliches Dankeschön! Dir und all denen die JOSM zu einem so tollen Werkzeug machen. Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM - Fang von POI
Hallo Jan, ... oder gibt es das schon ? Ja: Bearbeiten - Punkt hinzufügen oder Shift-D Geht auf viele Kommastellen genau: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/de:Genauigkeit_von_Koordinaten Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM - Fang von POI
Hallo Markus, ich will ja nicht einen Punkt über die Werte definieren. Ich möchte, dass beim Definieren eines Nodes und klicken in einem gewissen Umkreis um den POI das dieser autom. die Koordinate des POI übernimmt. Aber das andere, mit dem Dialog, hatte ich auch schon gesucht ! Gruß Jan :-) Markus schrieb: Hallo Jan, ... oder gibt es das schon ? Ja: Bearbeiten - Punkt hinzufügen oder Shift-D Geht auf viele Kommastellen genau: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/de:Genauigkeit_von_Koordinaten Gruss, Markus -- Freundliche Grüße Jan Tappenbeck --- OpenStreetMap (OSM) - das FREIE Kartenprojekt http://www.openstreetmap.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Ortsgebiet
Wolfgang Wienke schrieb: Hallo! Bernd Raichle schrieb: Besser ist IMHO ein eingetragenes Ortsschild als _kein_ eingetragenes Ortsschild. Wenn einem die Tags nicht passen, kann die spaeter jemand anderes immer noch entsprechend korrigieren bzw. so umsetzen, dass ein Router/Renderer/... was damit anfangen kann. Und jetzt nenn mir dochmal einen vollstaendigen und eindeutigen Algorithmus der solchen Quatsch verarbeiten soll? Wenn ich mal davon ausgehe, dass der Renderer weiß, dass die Straße in Deutschland (Rechtsverkehr) ist, und weiterhin das Schild an der RICHTIGEN (rechts in Fahrtrichtung) Seite neben der Straße steht, so kann er erkennen, ob es Ortseingang oder -ausgang ist. Die Nodes mit Ortsschildern, die mir bislang begegnet sind, waren immer Bestandteil der Straße, für die sie galten, und daher nicht links oder rechts der Straße. Zumal es kein unwahrscheinliches Szenario ist, dass am Ortsein-/-ausgang auf beiden Straßenseiten Schilder stehen, und ein Tagging des Schildstandortes links oder rechts der Straße in so einem Fall dazu führen wird, dass vollkommen zu Recht dort zwei Nodes eingezeichnet werden - nach demselben Schema, mit dem beispielsweise auch Bushaltestellen sowohl auf als auch links oder rechts neben der Straße eingezeichnet werden. Dein Ansatz wird also scheitern, weil du für Ortsschilder eine vom allgemeinen Standard abweichende Behandlung erstellst, die du niemals global oder wenigstens deutschlandweit allen Mappern vermittelt kriegst. Viele Grüße Sven ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lagegenauigkeit der LVA-Luftbilder
Hallo Miriam, da ich ja erst mal einen Punkt kennen muß Seit ich weiss wie diese Dinger aussehen, sehe ich sie überall... http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Altitude#Referenzhöhe Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Route-Relationen rendern lassen
Hallo zusammen, im Rahmen eines Seminars an der Uni Bonn kartieren wir zur Zeit ein Stück des Kottenforstes in Bonn. Wir stehen jetzt vor dem Problem, dass wir eine Route-Relation, die einen Rundweg beinhaltet nicht dazu beommen, dass er gerendert wird. Im Wiki steht dazu der sinnvole Satz, dass der Weg ein Symbol braucht. Leider fehlt die Beschreibung, wie man dieses einbaut. Das geht so:... im wörtlichen Zitat bringt uns leider nicht weiter... vielleicht weiss jemand Rat gruß Sebastian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] genauer Online-Transformator für Marku s OSM
Tobias Wendorff schrieb: Achja: BITTE Realname posten ... Netiquette. Die Forderung nach Realname-Postings ist gerade in Zeiten steigender staatlicher Vollüberwachung, aber auch im Interesse eines klein gehaltenen Google-Suchprofils absurd. Aber selbstverständlich kann den Realname-Fanatikern durch Wahl eines plausibel klingenden Kunstnamens Genüge getan werden. Viele Grüße Sven ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Externe GPS-Antenne
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 01:04:00AM +, Johann H. Addicks wrote: Schau Dir mal die Antennen an, von denen jha Links gepostet hat (die für 159EUR und die von Leica). Das sind beides Choke Ring-Antennen. Ich bin mir bei diesem Ding für 159FRZ nicht sicher, ob das eine ist. Der Anbieter schweigt sich zu technischen Details leider genüsslich aus. OK. Sieht von der äusseren Form her so aus, aber das muss ja leider nichts heissen. Das übliche hochleistungs-Blahfasel und irgendwelche zusammengelogenen dB- Angaben frei jeder Verifizierbarkeit. Den dB-Angaben würde ich schon glauben, das ist ja einfach nur die Verstärkung der aktiven Komponente (LNA). Darüber, wie viel besser der Empfang tatsächlich ist (also Richtwirkung, S/N-Ratio, ...) steht ja überhaupt nichts. Zumindest die alte Choke Ring bekommst Du für 3250USD gebraucht http://trimblegear.com/gearforsale/624004.htm Oder wenn es tragbar bleiben soll auch für den halben Preis. http://trimblegear.com/gearforsale/716701.htm schluck Von den Dingern kann ich wirklich nur träumen (159EUR wären vll. irgendwann drin gewesen, aber im vierstelligen Bereich ist einfach weit jenseits des Hobby-Bereichs). Schade. Tippe dann mal drauf, daß obiges keine Choke Ring ist. Trimble ist zwar ein Anbieter von Profi-GPS (für entsprechend richtig viel Geld) und man könnte es bestimmt auch billiger herstellen, aber Choke Ring ist patentiert und ich vermute mal, daß die Lizenzen entsprechend viel kosten (da bisher nur im Profi-Bereich eingesetzt und dort entsprechend gewinnbringend). CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Route-Relationen rendern lassen
Hallo Sebastian, Im Wiki steht dazu der sinnvole Satz, dass der Weg ein Symbol braucht. Leider fehlt die Beschreibung, wie man dieses einbaut. Das geht so:... ... bedeutet, dass hier noch Handlungsbedarf besteht. Bisher werden weder Relationen, noch dazugehörige Symbole angezeigt. Dafür sind die Renderer zuständig. Ich habe aber noch niemanden kennengelernt, der sich für Mapnik oder Osmarender zuständig fühlt, und weiss auch nicht, wo man so jemanden findet. vielleicht weiss jemand Rat Leider nein - ich möchte selbst auch gern die Wanderwege darstellen können! Bisher mache ich das über Openlayer: www.lau-net.de/baerlocher/osm/Simmelsdorf.html http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/de:OSM_in_Website_für_Gemeinde Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Gewerbegebiet = ? residential ????
Am Donnerstag 18 Dezember 2008 schrieb Garry: Guenther Meyer schrieb: hmm, ich hatte immer gedacht, dass die highway-typen unclassified und residential rein von der strasse gesehen identisch sind. der einzige unterschied ist der, dass bei einem eine bebauung vorhanden ist (egal ob wohnhäuser oder gewerbliche anlagen), beim anderen nicht. Dafür müsste man nicht den Aufwannd mit zwei Strassentypen machen.Das sind keine relevanten Parameter und ist durch andere Tags bereits entsprechenden den Eigenschaften tagbar. genau das dachte ich auch immer. also, wo ist der unterschied wirklich? das wird aber wohl - mangels exakter definition - wieder mal niemand sagen koennen... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Externe GPS-Antenne
Am Donnerstag, 18. Dezember 2008DE 09:19:22DE schrieb Sebastian Niehaus: Auf dem Fahrrad wird das eher schwierig und auf anderen Straßenverkehrsfahrzeugen vermutlich auch. Wenn Du siehst, was sich Amateurfunker teilweise als Antennen ans Auto, Fahrrad, sonstigen Fortbewegungsmitteln oder den Rucksack (tragbarer 10 m Mast und ähnliches) montieren, ist das im Vergleich dazu eher eine Kleinigkeit. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen René Falk ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] ETRS89 - WGS84 war: Lagegenauigkeit der LVA-Luftbilder
Hallo Christian, ich habe mich gerade nochmals in der EPSG-Datenbank umgesehen und festgestellt, dass dort ETRS89 (EPSG:4258) und WGS84 (EPSG: 4326) als identisch (Unterschied1m) betrachtet wird. Zumindest gelten bei der Umrechnung die selben Parameter. ETRS89 verwendet das Ellipsoid GRS80 , gilt europaweit und ist mit dem festen Teil der eurasischen Platte verankert. WGS 84 verwendet das Ellipsoid WGS84, gilt weltweit und benutzt feste Stationen. Für die Koordinatentransformation ETRS89 - WGS 84 (EPSG:1149) werden keine Parameter angegeben, da der Unterschied kleiner als 1m ist. Hat Du hier eine Umrechnungsvorschrift, die die Plattentektonik berücksichtigt? Den Ellipsoidübergang (GRS80-WGS84) könnte man ja realisieren. Warum ich das frage: Die wohl genaueste Transformation von DHDN nach ETRS89 ist die BeTA2007 (EPSG:15948). Für die Transformation DHDN nach WGS84 (EPSG:15949) wird aber die selbe Gitterdatei benutzt. (In der EPSG-Datenbank wird aber auch nur eine Genauigkeit von 1m angegeben) Das selbe gilt für die Transformationen (hier wird eine Genauigkeit von 0,1m genannt): DHDN - ETRS89 nord (EPSG:1780) gültig: lat52°20' DHDN - ETRS89 mitte (EPSG:1779) gültig: 50°20'lat52°20' DHDN - ETRS89 süd (EPSG:1779) gültig: lat50°20' Hierzu gibt es aber keine äquivalenten Umrechnungen DHDN - WGS84 Ich frage mich dann nur, was bringt überhaut die genaueste Umrechnung von GK-Koordinaten nach ETRS89, wenn wir ja eigentlich WGS84 brauchen, dabei aber wieder Abweichungen bis zu 1m haben? Gruß, Stefan Chris66 schrieb: Stefan Dettenhofer (StefanDausR) schrieb: so einfach ist das mit dem Umrechnen auch nicht! Auf wenige Meter genau ist es kein Problem, aber wenn man es genauer will, wird es kompliziert. Vor allem dann, wenn man nicht weiß, welche Parameter nun hier gültig sind. Die Vermessungsämter arbeiten -so weit ich weiß- nur mit GK-Koordinaten Die TPs, welche ich für meine Gegend mal bekommen habe waren bereits alle in ETRS-89 umgerechnet. Und bei deren Umrechnung in WGS-84 muss man dann noch die Plattentektonik berücksichtigen, das machen nicht alle Programme. Derzeitiger Shift: ca. 50 cm (2 cm pro Jahr). Grüße, Christian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
