Re: [Talk-transit] NaPTAN import
Hi all has there been any progress with the NaPTAN import yet? The list has been very quiet recently. I started programming the visual merge tool but I have not yet reached a point where there is something to show. I decided not to modify the busstop data in the osm database directly but to keep a seperate copy of the relevant nodes that can be merged into the database at some point when we tidied it up (basically like the dracos tool does it). Just wanted to let you know that I have not given up on the import ... Christoph Brian Prangle bpran...@googlemail.com schrieb: Hi everyone Summarising where I believe we've got to: 1. Thomas: schedule for completion - we're entirely in your hands - agree it's best to avoid the API update. 2. Birmingham only for test import 3. No highway=bus_stop tags, enabling us to merge/verify existing OSM data ( Christophe's visual tool to eventually solve this manual task) BUT tag taxi ranks as amenity=taxi 4. Import on the basis of the current selection/naming in naptan tagging wiki. Imports to be carried out by new user naptan 5. Plusbus zones and stop areas - import the naptan data only and leave doing anything with it until the debate on stopareas reaches a conclusion 6. Roger/Peter: is our current method of accessing the data OK? Or do you have to explicitly issue us with a dataset (perhaps the data publicly available for test is not the most current/accurate?) 7. Andy: agree on re-tagging w mids bus stops with route_ref and using semicolons instead of pipes to separate route nos in order to standardise - presume you have an automated routine for this? 8. Update needed on wiki regarding bus_stops (Andy? I'm happy to do a first draft for you to edit before publication - or better still submit it to this discussion list) Parked for later discussion/solution a)Stopareas (see above) b)Big-bang vs regional adoption (probably a talk gb discussion once Birmingham data and process completed) c)handling NaPTAN bus_stop updates d) importing further NaPTAN public transport data e) user feedback - there's a wide range of skill and experience in the OSM community and there are certain to be problems. An explicit route needed? f) how to maintain data integrity once it's imported and inexperienced users potentially delete data that other users have written applications that rely on it being there. I guess this is general problem not specific to this project- but this is a donated dataset and potentially could drive a considerable number of applications Unless there are any strong objections,(or I've ommitted anything from the discussions) I'd like to think we can close the discussion on the import and let Thomas get on with finishing the coding. Thank you everyone for your time and contributions We can continue discussion on the parked items and anything else that doesn't impact the coding for the first live Birmingham import Regards Brian ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [talk-ph] Philippine addressing system for OSM
If we could create a sensible addressing at least for Metro Manila we can invite businesses to add their address to osm On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:36 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have been discussing with rally about adding addresses to osm. We all know it's messy here in the Philippines but rally outlined an even more messy situation! I hope we can pool our minds together to come-up with a sensible addressing format for the Philippines. I've started a wikipage to collect some notes http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Philippine_addressing I suggest we adopt the Karlsruhe Schema and adopt all possible tags that fit the Philippines. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Address here's the email from rally (background rally works in courier service so he knows this stuff very well): == housenumber : number or alphanumeric (eg 12-C, 5-A), or LOT/BLK/PHASE no. housename: for addresses on Avenues (eg. ortigas ave ext or manila east roads) that has no street number, but building names only street: sometimes blank (for sitios with no streets; of for subdivisions with no streets - using Lot/Block/Phase) state -- not applicable for NCR: postcode: zipcode Note: In the US, zipcode combined with house number and street name are enough info for a package to be delivered. because their expanded zipcode makes the equivalent barangay, sitio, town, city, state becomes redundant info. a specific expanded ZIP points to a small specific area in the country. So, once a messenger reached that zipcode area, all he has to do is look for the street and house number. sometimes it includes APT or SPC (apartment or Space number). no need to specify condo or name of townhouse (as they consume extra space in the database). The dream is for every filipino living in a specific area, to know his/her expanded zipcode. maybe, all he needs to do is dial his landline on his area, and the computer answers back with the correct zipcode; or simply ask the barangay tanod for their zipcode. then, there's no need to memorize the name of apartment, condo, building name, project subdivision. that way, typo error don't matter as long as the zipcode is correct. according to wiki, Taytay Rizal is 41square Km. yet the zip code is one 4-digit number for the entire town. Now what's the use of this zipcode to a messenger? no use. my point is, after the tag addr:street we must go to many other sub-levels before going to city or town. some barangays in the philppines are just too big for one expanded zipcode, so we further divide it into sitio or big village or big subdivision... wait, it's not that easy to teach and implement. what complicates the address system is the inefficient use of address fields in paper forms: rural and city addresses need different forms. NCR have districts and barangays but don't have provinces, and sitios and puroks are not that many. RURAL AREAS have provinces and barangays, but have lots of sitios and puroks, but practically no districts (except for congressional districts which is not used on Address system) - because congressional district keeps on changing very often. since there are lots of streetname duplication in a particular town, rural addresses need to specify subdivision name, or sitio or purok name or neighborhood association name; else the mails get lost. There are no laws governing the naming of streets. it's a free-for-all system for LGU to name it to any names they like. if we use all fields (1) house number or Lot/Blk/Phase, (2) Floor Number, (3) building name or Apartment name, (4) streetname, (5) sitio or purok, (6) subdivision name (or project name), (7) barangay name, (8) town or city name, (9) province, (10) regions name, (11) country name, (12) zip code... gosh there's a lot of field that will be blank or be filled up with a lot of N/A's because: 1. some don't have House number, but Lot/Blk/Phase --- How do you search Lot Block Phase? Doesn't make sense and creates logistical nightmare. One block normally covers 3-4 streets (on all sides) - not environment friendly - lots of fuel spent searching. 2. If Lot/Blk/Phase is used, then some don't use street names (especially for those subd given permit to sell even without naming their streets), then after a few years put names on the street and mess up the address database. 3. if they don't live in a building, then what's the use of Floor Number and building name field? (imagine the precious terabytes wasted on the harddrive trying to reserved space for these unused space on a typical database) 4. some buildings are condos, some office/residential (so we use building field to enter the condo name) when some would insist that it should be on the Projects Name --- same field reserved for Subdivision Name so which- which? what about a townhouse, since these
Re: [talk-ph] Philippine addressing system for OSM
I don't think this is just an OSM-PH problem. If we can create a nice extensible system, we can share it as an addressing standard that can be used by everyone in the Philippines. This begs the question: how do other companies/organizations/DHL/FedEx deal with the addressing mess in the Philippines? If these are not trade secrets, we should talk to them and see what systems are in place and how we can improve on them and create a standard. Regarding the problem of database space waste, this isn't a problem for OSM since we only add key=value tags as necessary. Fields that are blank just don't exist (i.e., aren't tagged) for that geographic feature. I guess this is why the addressing system in Google Map Maker is extremely broken for the Philippines; people just don't know what to put in the sub-locality, locality, city, district/county, state fields in Google Map Maker. I've seen this really fantastic address there once: Taguig, Makati, Manila, National Capital Region, Philippines. In some instances, I've tried to correct the addresses by inputing Fort Bonifacio as the barangay (under the locality field) since Fort Bonifacio was one of the several barangays created in Taguig City late last year (see this NSCB press release: http://www.nscb.gov.ph/pressreleases/2009/PR-200902-PP2-01PSGC.asp). And you know what? Google Map Maker rejected my changes since it did not recognize Fort Bonifacio as a valid name. (So I said, screw Map Maker.) Anyway, I have never lived in the provinces, only in Metro Manila, so I'm not at all familiar with the purok/sitio system that seems to be often used in rural areas. What I do know is that most folks in Metro Manila do not even know what barangay they live in. On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:41 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: If we could create a sensible addressing at least for Metro Manila we can invite businesses to add their address to osm On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:36 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have been discussing with rally about adding addresses to osm. We all know it's messy here in the Philippines but rally outlined an even more messy situation! I hope we can pool our minds together to come-up with a sensible addressing format for the Philippines. I've started a wikipage to collect some notes http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Philippine_addressing I suggest we adopt the Karlsruhe Schema and adopt all possible tags that fit the Philippines. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Address here's the email from rally (background rally works in courier service so he knows this stuff very well): == housenumber : number or alphanumeric (eg 12-C, 5-A), or LOT/BLK/PHASE no. housename: for addresses on Avenues (eg. ortigas ave ext or manila east roads) that has no street number, but building names only street: sometimes blank (for sitios with no streets; of for subdivisions with no streets - using Lot/Block/Phase) state -- not applicable for NCR: postcode: zipcode Note: In the US, zipcode combined with house number and street name are enough info for a package to be delivered. because their expanded zipcode makes the equivalent barangay, sitio, town, city, state becomes redundant info. a specific expanded ZIP points to a small specific area in the country. So, once a messenger reached that zipcode area, all he has to do is look for the street and house number. sometimes it includes APT or SPC (apartment or Space number). no need to specify condo or name of townhouse (as they consume extra space in the database). The dream is for every filipino living in a specific area, to know his/her expanded zipcode. maybe, all he needs to do is dial his landline on his area, and the computer answers back with the correct zipcode; or simply ask the barangay tanod for their zipcode. then, there's no need to memorize the name of apartment, condo, building name, project subdivision. that way, typo error don't matter as long as the zipcode is correct. according to wiki, Taytay Rizal is 41square Km. yet the zip code is one 4-digit number for the entire town. Now what's the use of this zipcode to a messenger? no use. my point is, after the tag addr:street we must go to many other sub-levels before going to city or town. some barangays in the philppines are just too big for one expanded zipcode, so we further divide it into sitio or big village or big subdivision... wait, it's not that easy to teach and implement. what complicates the address system is the inefficient use of address fields in paper forms: rural and city addresses need different forms. NCR have districts and barangays but don't have provinces, and sitios and puroks are not that many. RURAL AREAS have provinces and barangays, but have lots of sitios and puroks,
Re: [talk-ph] Philippine addressing system for OSM
I made draft schema based on Karlsruhe Schema with several modifications http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Philippine_addressing#Proposed_schema For comments On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 11:39 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:36 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: idiot-proof efficient address system. :-) I don't think it will be :), but I'm hoping we can make a workable plan -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Philippine addressing system for OSM
I get worried when people start talking about addressing here. :) What you would have to reference here is the land title information. I know its not good but it is correct, to a point. But this would mean a different approach to mapping which would be very difficult information (land titles) to obtain. What we need is to be able to use the address data for efficient service delivery. This house orders pizza, how do we get there? DHL and Fedex secret is the telephone number on the slip.. The post office is the one with the best system.. Even if it is broke also. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-talk] immutable=yes Fwd: DEC Lands
I believe back on the 10th of March Russ said in three seporate emails that he would upload the data, monitor the changes (dealing with associated conflicts) and report back here with his findings. I am fairly certain in another email shortly after he said he's now done it. Doug On Mar 18, 2009 12:20 AM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com wrote: On Mar 16, 2009, at 7:09... potlatch, JOSM and merkaartor already support several external data sources (yahoo! imagery, gpx points, WMS, etc...) if your data source is useful to a significant number of people then they (or you) will add support to the editors. in my opinion your arguments for a unified interface to GIS data are not compelling. on the other hand, i don't see any disadvantage to adding DEC lands data to OSM. in the end it reduces to: do you want to import and maintain this data, including the responsibility of resolving mistakes and disputes with other community members, or would you prefer to just debate the point endlessly on this list? cheers, matt ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lis... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multipolygons in Mapnik
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Jon Burgess jburgess...@googlemail.com wrote: You are correct, the hourly diff imports can not handle the multipolygon relation properly. These will fix themselves after the weekly import each Wednesday. Any edit to the nodes or ways in the relation will probably break it again. Does anyone have a grip on the actual problem? When I wrote the diff handling code I thought I covered all the bases, so I'd be interested to know the failure mode. Have a nice day, -- Martijn van Oosterhout klep...@gmail.com http://svana.org/kleptog/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Alternatives to wikipedia?
While the effort being put into links WITH wikipedia are to be applauded, many of us are no longer contributing to wikipedia because of their propensity to kill of material that is not 'noteworthy'! On a number of occasions in the past I have linked to articles only later to find the 'censors' message at the end of a link :( and I know we have had this discussion in the past where other OSM contributors have found the same problem. The bottom line in my mind is that if we applied the same heavy handed rubber to OSM that is applied in wikipedia then many people whould have walked from here. All I am probably asking at this point is that links FROM OSM to an article should bear some what when an 'editor' gets it into his head that the article should be chopped. But that can only be ensured by pressure inside wikipedia, and some flag that osm IS linking to it? In the meantime, the bulk of the links WE need to create at this time are to secondary place information, and there are lots of alternative - more open - places that we can link to. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html Freely usable up to date facts ... http://www.geonames.org/ - Only really useful as a cross reference? OSM search usually gets the location right, but a link back to source search would be useful? http://www.infoplease.com/atlas/ - ( with advertising :( ) http://wikitravel.org- Growing library of local information http://www.viovio.com/travel/ - Growing photo gallery ( This site would benefit from replacing MapQuest by OSM ;) ) http://www.flickr.com/places/ Pictures via place name - roughly Of cause what would be nice would be a common standard for location names, so we can just create new links automatically. I keep returning to a nice hierarchic front end for osm, which nowadays is probably just a different view on the place search? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Alternatives to wikipedia?
Hi Lester, You could take a look at includipedia, which is basically a fork of the wikipedia to become an inclusive version of the wikipedia. Shaun On 18 Mar 2009, at 08:53, Lester Caine wrote: While the effort being put into links WITH wikipedia are to be applauded, many of us are no longer contributing to wikipedia because of their propensity to kill of material that is not 'noteworthy'! On a number of occasions in the past I have linked to articles only later to find the 'censors' message at the end of a link :( and I know we have had this discussion in the past where other OSM contributors have found the same problem. The bottom line in my mind is that if we applied the same heavy handed rubber to OSM that is applied in wikipedia then many people whould have walked from here. All I am probably asking at this point is that links FROM OSM to an article should bear some what when an 'editor' gets it into his head that the article should be chopped. But that can only be ensured by pressure inside wikipedia, and some flag that osm IS linking to it? In the meantime, the bulk of the links WE need to create at this time are to secondary place information, and there are lots of alternative - more open - places that we can link to. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html Freely usable up to date facts ... http://www.geonames.org/ - Only really useful as a cross reference? OSM search usually gets the location right, but a link back to source search would be useful? http://www.infoplease.com/atlas/ - ( with advertising :( ) http://wikitravel.org- Growing library of local information http://www.viovio.com/travel/ - Growing photo gallery ( This site would benefit from replacing MapQuest by OSM ;) ) http://www.flickr.com/places/ Pictures via place name - roughly Of cause what would be nice would be a common standard for location names, so we can just create new links automatically. I keep returning to a nice hierarchic front end for osm, which nowadays is probably just a different view on the place search? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] GPS track upload working?
When I try to upload a GPS track using http://openstreetmap.org/traces/mine, it takes a while and then gives a blank page. The track does not appear in the list (even as 'pending'). Is anyone else seeing the same? -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GPS track upload working?
What is the size of the track that you are trying to upload? Shaun On 18 Mar 2009, at 13:58, Ed Avis wrote: When I try to upload a GPS track using http://openstreetmap.org/traces/mine , it takes a while and then gives a blank page. The track does not appear in the list (even as 'pending'). Is anyone else seeing the same? -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Alternatives to wikipedia?
On Mar 18, 2009, at 4:53 AM, Lester Caine wrote: While the effort being put into links WITH wikipedia are to be applauded, many of us are no longer contributing to wikipedia because of their propensity to kill of material that is not 'noteworthy'! On a number of occasions in the past I have linked to articles only later to find the 'censors' message at the end of a link :( and I know we have had this discussion in the past where other OSM contributors have found the same problem. This is a serious enough issue that it should be escalated to the OSMF. They should make an arrangement with Wikipedia saying: that an article linked from OSM to Wikipedia is by definition noteworthy, and that that justification cannot be used to delete an article from Wikipedia. There might be other reasons: for example that the locations linked between OSM and Wikipedia are in fact not related, or the *location* is not worth including in OSM. If we're going to cooperate with Wikipedia, then they need to cooperate with us by not allowing any dangling links. -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GPS track upload working?
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:58:41 + (UTC) Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: When I try to upload a GPS track using http://openstreetmap.org/traces/mine, it takes a while and then gives a blank page. The track does not appear in the list (even as 'pending'). Is anyone else seeing the same? I had something similar this morning, it seemed to upload ok but didn't appear in the list as pending and then I got an import failure email: failed to import. Here's the error: Unable to open /store/gpx/traces/335849.gpx (errno=No such file or directory) XML parser at line 0 column 0 Since that trace didn't actually add much new I gave up and just used it locally. I've just uploaded another trace though which has uploaded and parsed ok. -- Alice ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Spam] Re: Alternatives to wikipedia?
2009/3/18 Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com On Mar 18, 2009, at 4:53 AM, Lester Caine wrote: While the effort being put into links WITH wikipedia are to be applauded, many of us are no longer contributing to wikipedia because of their propensity to kill of material that is not 'noteworthy'! On a number of occasions in the past I have linked to articles only later to find the 'censors' message at the end of a link :( and I know we have had this discussion in the past where other OSM contributors have found the same problem. This is a serious enough issue that it should be escalated to the OSMF. They should make an arrangement with Wikipedia saying: that an article linked from OSM to Wikipedia is by definition noteworthy, and that that justification cannot be used to delete an article from Wikipedia. There might be other reasons: for example that the locations linked between OSM and Wikipedia are in fact not related, or the *location* is not worth including in OSM. With respect, there are good reasons for some articles to not make it into Wikipedia. Certainly the process for removing them can be a little crude but the notability criteria for Wikipedia are necessary. I had trouble with some articles about minor ferry services in Suffolk (one did arguably have notability as being the smallest registered ferry in Europe, however even that was not enough for the group). They were deemed 'not-notable' individually but I did get them to stick when someone suggested an article 'local ferries in Suffolk'. It would have been better to have had another place to put them where that problem didn't arise but WIkipedia is not that place really. Here is what we ended up with... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Ferries_in_Suffolk It may be necessary for OSM to create a companion wiki for OSM where every feature or relation (or group of features) can have an article and that existence of a feature in OSM is criteria enough for inclusion but it would need people who would maintain it and it would need to be linked into the OSM tool base. ITO would be very supportive of an initiative to provide descriptions, photos and subjective information about features in the OSM database which don't belong in OSM itself. The word 'smoothness' comes to mind! If anyone is interested in this then possibly we should set up a wiki page for it:) Regards, Peter Miller ITO World Ltd If we're going to cooperate with Wikipedia, then they need to cooperate with us by not allowing any dangling links. -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Alternatives to wikipedia?
2009/3/18 Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com: On Mar 18, 2009, at 4:53 AM, Lester Caine wrote: While the effort being put into links WITH wikipedia are to be applauded, many of us are no longer contributing to wikipedia because of their propensity to kill of material that is not 'noteworthy'! On a number of occasions in the past I have linked to articles only later to find the 'censors' message at the end of a link :( and I know we have had this discussion in the past where other OSM contributors have found the same problem. This is a serious enough issue that it should be escalated to the OSMF. They should make an arrangement with Wikipedia saying: that an article linked from OSM to Wikipedia is by definition noteworthy, and that that justification cannot be used to delete an article from Wikipedia. There might be other reasons: for example that the locations linked between OSM and Wikipedia are in fact not related, or the *location* is not worth including in OSM. If we're going to cooperate with Wikipedia, then they need to cooperate with us by not allowing any dangling links. Wikipedia have their whole concept of notability. We have the concept that if it exists you can map it. This isn't really compatible. If I map my house (I have done, it's an address, OSM wants that data) and link it to a page about my house on wikipedia I'd fully expect the wikipedia article to get deleted on notability grounds. My house is not notable just because it exists, but it is worth mapping. It's not just us who might link to a wikipedia page that gets removed on such grounds. That's wikipedia's problem, not ours, and they seem quite happy with it. Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Alternatives to wikipedia?
On Mar 18, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Dave Stubbs wrote: Wikipedia have their whole concept of notability. We have the concept that if it exists you can map it. This isn't really compatible. Then perhaps we need to, as Lester suggests, have our own information base? Either link to includipedia or else link to our own wiki -- which would redirect to Wikipedia if no such article exists. -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Spam] Re: Alternatives to wikipedia?
Peter Miller wrote: 2009/3/18 Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com mailto:r...@cloudmade.com On Mar 18, 2009, at 4:53 AM, Lester Caine wrote: While the effort being put into links WITH wikipedia are to be applauded, many of us are no longer contributing to wikipedia because of their propensity to kill of material that is not 'noteworthy'! On a number of occasions in the past I have linked to articles only later to find the 'censors' message at the end of a link :( and I know we have had this discussion in the past where other OSM contributors have found the same problem. This is a serious enough issue that it should be escalated to the OSMF. They should make an arrangement with Wikipedia saying: that an article linked from OSM to Wikipedia is by definition noteworthy, and that that justification cannot be used to delete an article from Wikipedia. There might be other reasons: for example that the locations linked between OSM and Wikipedia are in fact not related, or the *location* is not worth including in OSM. With respect, there are good reasons for some articles to not make it into Wikipedia. Certainly the process for removing them can be a little crude but the notability criteria for Wikipedia are necessary. I had trouble with some articles about minor ferry services in Suffolk (one did arguably have notability as being the smallest registered ferry in Europe, however even that was not enough for the group). They were deemed 'not-notable' individually but I did get them to stick when someone suggested an article 'local ferries in Suffolk'. It would have been better to have had another place to put them where that problem didn't arise but WIkipedia is not that place really. Here is what we ended up with... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Ferries_in_Suffolk I'd have a little more sympathy with wikipedia if they did not slap large banners over many articles and then not ACTUALLY do anything about them for 18 months ... The person how decided to complain should be required to back up a complaint within a reasonable time, or the banners simply get taken off. A lot of the potential links I WAS making in 2007 still have the same garbage plastered over them and none of the points of clarification I posted at the time have ever been answered :( It may be necessary for OSM to create a companion wiki for OSM where every feature or relation (or group of features) can have an article and that existence of a feature in OSM is criteria enough for inclusion but it would need people who would maintain it and it would need to be linked into the OSM tool base. ITO would be very supportive of an initiative to provide descriptions, photos and subjective information about features in the OSM database which don't belong in OSM itself. The word 'smoothness' comes to mind! If anyone is interested in this then possibly we should set up a wiki page for it:) I have to admit to a side line interest in viovio and I will be looking at switching the mapping links to use osm, but while 'researching' this email, http://wikitravel.org came up and seems to provide a very nice base that we could dovetail with nicely! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Alternatives to wikipedia?
On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com wrote: Then perhaps we need to, as Lester suggests, have our own information base? Either link to includipedia or else link to our own wiki -- which would redirect to Wikipedia if no such article exists. I agree with the idea of setting up a wiki just for this effort. The main justification I would have is that it's never a good idea to take all your and your community's efforts and hand them over to a third party's care. If for any reason something happens, you're stuck without your work at least or you're life is made quite complex. It's an easy habit to get into making infoboxes or see also type links which go to the various other good sources out there. - wikipedia, includipedia, citizendium, etc. - official government website - official travel website - whatever Perhaps if the page/link naming scheme was kept the same as Wikipedia's, then you could hack a link into the template which would automatically appear on every article page. If I can manage to get into things, I'd gladly donate some spare time assisting. I've been involved in several medium-sized MediaWiki installations in the past. a9, ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Alternatives to wikipedia?
These should have been to the list ... pigging 'redirect'! Shaun McDonald wrote: Hi Lester, You could take a look at includipedia, which is basically a fork of the wikipedia to become an inclusive version of the wikipedia. I have seen that - but it seems to have stalled? I've never been able to navigate it ... http://en.citizendium.org seems to highlight the 'problem' with wikipedia - especially since it's being developed by one of wikipedias founders ;) http://open-site.org is probably more what *I* had in mind, but it does seem to be a bit out of date on key country data :( But the world Fact Book should be the only reference needed for that nowadays. Shaun On 18 Mar 2009, at 08:53, Lester Caine wrote: While the effort being put into links WITH wikipedia are to be applauded, many of us are no longer contributing to wikipedia because of their propensity to kill of material that is not 'noteworthy'! On a number of occasions in the past I have linked to articles only later to find the 'censors' message at the end of a link :( and I know we have had this discussion in the past where other OSM contributors have found the same problem. The bottom line in my mind is that if we applied the same heavy handed rubber to OSM that is applied in wikipedia then many people whould have walked from here. All I am probably asking at this point is that links FROM OSM to an article should bear some what when an 'editor' gets it into his head that the article should be chopped. But that can only be ensured by pressure inside wikipedia, and some flag that osm IS linking to it? In the meantime, the bulk of the links WE need to create at this time are to secondary place information, and there are lots of alternative - more open - places that we can link to. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html Freely usable up to date facts ... http://www.geonames.org/ - Only really useful as a cross reference? OSM search usually gets the location right, but a link back to source search would be useful? http://www.infoplease.com/atlas/ - ( with advertising :( ) http://wikitravel.org- Growing library of local information http://www.viovio.com/travel/ - Growing photo gallery ( This site would benefit from replacing MapQuest by OSM ;) ) http://www.flickr.com/places/ Pictures via place name - roughly Of cause what would be nice would be a common standard for location names, so we can just create new links automatically. I keep returning to a nice hierarchic front end for osm, which nowadays is probably just a different view on the place search? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Alternatives to wikipedia?
These should have been to the list ... pigging 'redirect'! Shaun McDonald wrote: Hi Philip, What's the status of Includipedia? Did the import every get fully completed? As long as you use 'search' Includipedia actually looks quite a complete copy of wikipedia and none of the model railway pages I've been tracking have have any of the censorship crap on them ;) I'd had to drop links to wikipedia because of their treatment of model railway attractions ... -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Alternatives to wikipedia?
Hi, 2009/3/18 Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com: On Mar 18, 2009, at 4:53 AM, Lester Caine wrote: On a number of occasions in the past I have linked to articles only later to find the 'censors' message at the end of a link :( and I know we have had this discussion in the past where other OSM contributors have found the same problem. This is a serious enough issue that it should be escalated to the OSMF. They should make an arrangement with Wikipedia saying: that an article linked from OSM to Wikipedia is by definition noteworthy, and that that justification cannot be used to delete an article from Wikipedia. There might be other reasons: for example that the locations linked between OSM and Wikipedia are in fact not related, or the *location* is not worth including in OSM. If we're going to cooperate with Wikipedia, then they need to cooperate with us by not allowing any dangling links. There are several reasons why this isn't possible, but the biggest one is the following: Wikipedia isn't controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation but by the community. With whom do you like to make an arrangement? It's pretty hard to make an arrangement with a community consisting out of constantly changing people. Bye, Tim. -- http://wikipedistik.de ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Alternatives to wikipedia?
Tim 'avatar' Bartel wrote: Hi, 2009/3/18 Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com: On Mar 18, 2009, at 4:53 AM, Lester Caine wrote: On a number of occasions in the past I have linked to articles only later to find the 'censors' message at the end of a link :( and I know we have had this discussion in the past where other OSM contributors have found the same problem. This is a serious enough issue that it should be escalated to the OSMF. They should make an arrangement with Wikipedia saying: that an article linked from OSM to Wikipedia is by definition noteworthy, and that that justification cannot be used to delete an article from Wikipedia. There might be other reasons: for example that the locations linked between OSM and Wikipedia are in fact not related, or the *location* is not worth including in OSM. If we're going to cooperate with Wikipedia, then they need to cooperate with us by not allowing any dangling links. There are several reasons why this isn't possible, but the biggest one is the following: Wikipedia isn't controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation but by the community. With whom do you like to make an arrangement? It's pretty hard to make an arrangement with a community consisting out of constantly changing people. That is probably the main reason who I would prefer to find an alternative 'location' to direct links to. And some useful suggestions have already been made. While I CAN appreciate the idea of our own wiki. That would require a lot more hardware. Viovio has several terabytes of images already, and I suspect wikitravel.org can probably top that. So sharing the load would sound a lot more sensible? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-legal-talk] License Working Group meeting today
Dear all Due to some phone problems for one of our number being unable to dial in to the call, we decided that we should postpone by a day to sort those issues out. We covered a little ground - essentially that we've not had back feedback from OSMFs lawyer yet and some slight changes to the plan to take in to consideration good points received from the community - namely that we should build in time for a 1.0 review also. More tomorrow. Best Steve ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Spam] Re: Alternatives to wikipedia?
Peter Miller wrote: Finally, lets not be frightened about the cost of another box and the hosting because terrabytes and gigabytes are really cheap these days. We have just bought a box with 7 Terrabytes of disk storage and it cost £100 per terrabyte. We are also about to import all 1,000,000 of photos of geographic features in the UK from Geograph (all CCBYSA) to see how it copes. Monetary cost is, I agree, not the issue. Time costs for development, maintenance and administration are. I think we should stick to doing one thing well and rather than trying to do lots of things and not managing to do any of them well. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Spam] Re: Alternatives to wikipedia?
Is there any reason that we can't use Flickr to host photographs? they seem to be fans of OSM: http://blog.flickr.net/en/2008/08/12/around-the-world-and-back-again/ PaulY On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: Peter Miller wrote: Finally, lets not be frightened about the cost of another box and the hosting because terrabytes and gigabytes are really cheap these days. We have just bought a box with 7 Terrabytes of disk storage and it cost £100 per terrabyte. We are also about to import all 1,000,000 of photos of geographic features in the UK from Geograph (all CCBYSA) to see how it copes. Monetary cost is, I agree, not the issue. Time costs for development, maintenance and administration are. I think we should stick to doing one thing well and rather than trying to do lots of things and not managing to do any of them well. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] restart the Mapnik daemon?
Hi, Apologies, as I am new to this list. Can someone restart the Mapnik daemon? I am getting blank output when I export an Area (using the GUI). Thank you. -Wes ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Spam] Re: Alternatives to wikipedia?
Lester Caine wrote: I'd have a little more sympathy with wikipedia if they did not slap The problem with your criticism is that they can't be identified. It is like blaming the OSM mappers (what? me?) for putting more energy into mapping England than Scotland. You can of course be dissatisfied with the poor coverage of some regions, but you don't achieve anything by trying to blame the entire project for this. Some articles get improved, others not, others again get deleted. The best insurance for keeping your article is to make it good. From OSM, perhaps we should just link to Wikipedia articles that are pretty good already (more than 1 kbyte of text, and having source citations), since these are more likely to stay around. The person how decided to complain should be required to back up a complaint within a reasonable time, And now you're complaining about Wikipedia. So how are you going to back up your complaint? By improving Wikipedia? -- Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] restart the Mapnik daemon?
On Wed, 2009-03-18 at 15:13 -0400, Wes Townsend wrote: Hi, Apologies, as I am new to this list. Can someone restart the Mapnik daemon? I am getting blank output when I export an Area (using the GUI). Thank you. The output will be blank until the weekly import completes in a few hours time. Jon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Moving few meters some OSM/SHP file
Hi, is there any program GUI or command line that allows me to move all the nodes of a OSM/SHP file few meters in any direction N/S/E/W ? I've tried JOSM but I need to do it manually sellecting all the nodes and moving with SHIFT+arrows Best regards. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Spam] Re: Alternatives to wikipedia?
Peter - are you really sure about geograph? AIUI only the photos are CC-BY-SA, the geolocation is OS-derived. Please check. Sorry for crap formatting, moving house so on mobile. Richard Peter Miller-7 wrote: On 18 Mar 2009, at 17:11, Lester Caine wrote: Tim 'avatar' Bartel wrote: If we're going to cooperate with Wikipedia, then they need to cooperate with us by not allowing any dangling links. There are several reasons why this isn't possible, but the biggest one is the following: Wikipedia isn't controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation but by the community. With whom do you like to make an arrangement? It's pretty hard to make an arrangement with a community consisting out of constantly changing people. That is probably the main reason who I would prefer to find an alternative 'location' to direct links to. And some useful suggestions have already been made. While I CAN appreciate the idea of our own wiki. That would require a lot more hardware. Viovio has several terabytes of images already, and I suspect wikitravel.org can probably top that. So sharing the load would sound a lot more sensible? As I see it there are a number of different sorts of 'associated' data for OSM that needs a reliable and welcoming home somewhere: 1) Photos - these need to have locations and a direction or alternatively two positions, one for the camera and one for the subject of the photo. In addition to that it is useful to know when it was taken and any special attributes, was it taken when it was snowing, was it raining, is it a picture of something pretty or of a defect or of a signpost or what. All of this information would allow applications to decide which ones to use. A journey planner would show pictures of the pretty things on the route but another application might want to show defects to the local council or show illegal parking to the police. So... there is a whole load of stuff to do with photos , some pretty pictures of scenery can go in WikiTravel and Viovio etc, but some of the other stuff wouldn't be appreciated there and we might need to provide a home. 2) Articles - background information for a street, when it was constructed, why, where its name came from and possibly plans for its future. Hard to see who else would give this house-room. 3) Subjective information about ways - muddy in winter, poor lighting, too narrow for a double buggy, very crowded on market days etc. I would like us to think about all this stuff. We need to decide which bit below in Wikipedia (certainly the right place for articles about towns), for Viovio (pretty pictures?), and which nerdy details about traffic, pot poles, traffic signs and bus stop poles and origins of street names belong in OSM and no-where else. Finally, lets not be frightened about the cost of another box and the hosting because terrabytes and gigabytes are really cheap these days. We have just bought a box with 7 Terrabytes of disk storage and it cost £100 per terrabyte. We are also about to import all 1,000,000 of photos of geographic features in the UK from Geograph (all CCBYSA) to see how it copes. Can I suggest that if we are serious about this that we get a wiki page together with the brief for the project and see what it looks like as we work on it. Does this project have a name and are in vague agreement about the scope and the need? Regards, Peter -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Alternatives-to-wikipedia--tp22574913p22588822.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM is a Google Summer of Code 2009 project!
http://socghop.appspot.com/org/show/google/gsoc2009/openstreetmap ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Spam] Re: [Spam] Re: Alternatives to wikipedia?
On 18 Mar 2009, at 21:23, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Peter - are you really sure about geograph? AIUI only the photos are CC-BY-SA, the geolocation is OS-derived. Please check. I am sure that Barry Hunter (who started it) assured me at sotm2008 that the whole thing is CCBYSA and that the OS who sponsor the project had agreed to that but I don't see that message repeated on their website. I will check with him again and report back. Regards, Peter Sorry for crap formatting, moving house so on mobile. Richard Peter Miller-7 wrote: On 18 Mar 2009, at 17:11, Lester Caine wrote: Tim 'avatar' Bartel wrote: If we're going to cooperate with Wikipedia, then they need to cooperate with us by not allowing any dangling links. There are several reasons why this isn't possible, but the biggest one is the following: Wikipedia isn't controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation but by the community. With whom do you like to make an arrangement? It's pretty hard to make an arrangement with a community consisting out of constantly changing people. That is probably the main reason who I would prefer to find an alternative 'location' to direct links to. And some useful suggestions have already been made. While I CAN appreciate the idea of our own wiki. That would require a lot more hardware. Viovio has several terabytes of images already, and I suspect wikitravel.org can probably top that. So sharing the load would sound a lot more sensible? As I see it there are a number of different sorts of 'associated' data for OSM that needs a reliable and welcoming home somewhere: 1) Photos - these need to have locations and a direction or alternatively two positions, one for the camera and one for the subject of the photo. In addition to that it is useful to know when it was taken and any special attributes, was it taken when it was snowing, was it raining, is it a picture of something pretty or of a defect or of a signpost or what. All of this information would allow applications to decide which ones to use. A journey planner would show pictures of the pretty things on the route but another application might want to show defects to the local council or show illegal parking to the police. So... there is a whole load of stuff to do with photos , some pretty pictures of scenery can go in WikiTravel and Viovio etc, but some of the other stuff wouldn't be appreciated there and we might need to provide a home. 2) Articles - background information for a street, when it was constructed, why, where its name came from and possibly plans for its future. Hard to see who else would give this house-room. 3) Subjective information about ways - muddy in winter, poor lighting, too narrow for a double buggy, very crowded on market days etc. I would like us to think about all this stuff. We need to decide which bit below in Wikipedia (certainly the right place for articles about towns), for Viovio (pretty pictures?), and which nerdy details about traffic, pot poles, traffic signs and bus stop poles and origins of street names belong in OSM and no-where else. Finally, lets not be frightened about the cost of another box and the hosting because terrabytes and gigabytes are really cheap these days. We have just bought a box with 7 Terrabytes of disk storage and it cost £100 per terrabyte. We are also about to import all 1,000,000 of photos of geographic features in the UK from Geograph (all CCBYSA) to see how it copes. Can I suggest that if we are serious about this that we get a wiki page together with the brief for the project and see what it looks like as we work on it. Does this project have a name and are in vague agreement about the scope and the need? Regards, Peter -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Alternatives-to-wikipedia--tp22574913p22588822.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap and Wikipedia (was: Map tag in Wikipedia)
Tim 'avatar' Bartel wrote: Regarding the people interested in the map project: Because the project just started, it won't be too useful to add more people to the group before we have buyed the servers, brought them to our data center in Amsterdam and set up a base system. There's a lot more to be done, and a lot more going on with maps in Wikipedia than just the new map toolserver. The 15,000 euro from WMDE is another step forward, but not the first and not the last. The existing toolserver with the GeoHack and WikiMiniAtlas applications represents a series of previous steps forward. The Berlin meetup is one chance for those interested in all of these little projects to see each other, learn about recent advances, and discuss how to continue from here. Another such chance is the State of the Map conference in July. The deadline for SOTM paper submissions is May 3. Enough time to get ideas in Berlin and write up a synopsis for SOTM. Setting up the map toolserver will be important. But other people can do other things in the same time. For example, we will have to consider how the current coordinate links in Wikipedia articles should be changed to inline map presentations. Should they fit in infoboxes? We still have no system for interwiki synchronization of coordinates. Different languages of Wikipedia can specify different coordinates for the same city, with different precision. To what extent does OSM link back to Wikipedia, and how should that be improved? I recently introduced WikiMiniAtlas in the Swedish Wikipedia, and initiated a translation of the GeoHack page into Norwegian (bokmål and nynorsk). Yesterday, the page http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap was translated into Swedish and Russian. At the Berlin meet-up we can inspire someone to do such things for other languages of Wikipedia. Last year, Inge Wallin and I applied for funds for a Swedish tile server. The hardware is being installed now. Our primary interest is to render OSM in the style of Swedish cartography. But we also need to know how this can best be coordinated with the German map toolserver and other resources. So, the map project is a lot bigger than the map toolserver. -- Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a Google Summer of Code 2009 project!
2009/3/18 Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com http://socghop.appspot.com/org/show/google/gsoc2009/openstreetmap You stole my thunder! :) OSM should start receiving applications for summer of code work soon. Keep the list of project ideas updated so we can attract some student applications. Thanks, Ian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Moving few meters some OSM/SHP file
Ivan Garcia capiscuas at gmail.com writes: Hi, is there any program GUI or command line that allows me to move all the nodes of a OSM/SHP file few meters in any direction N/S/E/W ?I've tried JOSM but I need to do it manually sellecting all the nodes and moving with SHIFT+arrowsBest regards. OpenJUMP can do that with shapefiles. Select the features, give distance and angle and you've done. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Alternatives to wikipedia?
Hi, Russ Nelson wrote: This is a serious enough issue that it should be escalated to the OSMF. OSMF telling the Wikikpedia people what to do would be like the Wikipedia people telling us what to do. We'd laugh at them and go on. A Wikipedia link from OSM is just like any other web link - you have no guarantee that its target will remain present (or online). Let's just accept this and get on with things. By all means, put a link to Encycoplaedia Britannica if you want but how sure are you that this outlasts the Wikipedia article? Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Alternatives to wikipedia?
Frederik Ramm wrote: Sent: 19 March 2009 12:00 AM To: Russ Nelson Cc: Talk Openstreetmap Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Alternatives to wikipedia? Hi, Russ Nelson wrote: This is a serious enough issue that it should be escalated to the OSMF. OSMF telling the Wikikpedia people what to do would be like the Wikipedia people telling us what to do. We'd laugh at them and go on. A Wikipedia link from OSM is just like any other web link - you have no guarantee that its target will remain present (or online). Let's just accept this and get on with things. By all means, put a link to Encycoplaedia Britannica if you want but how sure are you that this outlasts the Wikipedia article? or we could just start our own factual database beyond geospatial data. Its clearly a whole lot easier and less contentious if you are only responsible for documenting fact, and it's a sure way of staying ahead of the game with this linked-data malarkey. Leave everything else for Hello magazine. Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik does not display symbols
On Thursday 12 March 2009 23:26:14 Jon Burgess wrote: On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 18:15 +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: looks like the problem is missing columns in the lenny install. I checked and find the fedora10 install has 52 columns whereas the lenny one has only 41. I cannot find the file which contains the create table statement - if I can get my hands on that, I could check and manually add the missing columns. btw, the fedora10 install does not have a 'construction' column, but still works. Any idea where this create table statement is and where does it get a list of columns? The create table command is generated by osm2pgsql. The list of columns is defined in the default.style I mentioned earlier in this email chain. ok. reinstalled everything - default.style has kicked in and I am getting all the columns including the 'construction' column. When I run generate_image.py, I am getting a perfect image. But when using renderd and mod_tile, I get a good image upto about zoom level 12, higher zooms are giving a b0rked image. You can see this here: http://greenchilly.in -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap and Wikipedia (was: Map tag in Wikipedia)
2009/3/17 Tim 'avatar' Bartel openstreet...@computerkultur.org: Hi, 2009/3/11 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: Anyway, there's a MediaWiki developer meetup in Berlin next month [...] But it would be very cool if someone that *did* know something about the OSM platform were to go and talk to the people involved there about getting OSM on Wikipedia. There will be people who know both OSM and Wikipedia, and they will talk about these things. Yes. Church of emacs provided an English translation of our info page - thanks! You can find it here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap Abstract: Wikimedia Germany is very interested in supporting the interaction between OSM and Wikipedia. So the board decided to allocate 15.000 Euros for some hardware and initiated a project with two main goals: - Integrating OSM maps into Wikipedia - Building a Map-Toolserver similar to the Wikimedia-Toolserver to give any interested OSM developer an easy possibility to build tools and special maps without the hassle of building an own infrastructure first. Any further ideas? Add them to the talk page or join us in Berlin! I'll be coming to the meeting in Berlin and look forward to seeing you all and discussing OSM intergation into Wikimedia sites. It would be nice to get all the interested parties together on some forum before the meeting whether it be IRC, mailing lists or something else. I added myself to the Team section on the wiki but more communication with the other nodes in said team would be welcome:) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Moving few meters some OSM/SHP file
Thanks Jukka, I had problems with OpenJum to load my shapefiles with unicode special characters, altought uDig didn't have any? Is that a known problem? Best Regards. On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Jukka Rahkonen jukka.rahko...@mmmtike.fiwrote: Ivan Garcia capiscuas at gmail.com writes: Hi, is there any program GUI or command line that allows me to move all the nodes of a OSM/SHP file few meters in any direction N/S/E/W ?I've tried JOSM but I need to do it manually sellecting all the nodes and moving with SHIFT+arrowsBest regards. OpenJUMP can do that with shapefiles. Select the features, give distance and angle and you've done. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Lithuanian revert
--ENGLISH Further down-- Duomenų darbo grupė (anksčiau vadinta Vandalizmo darbo grupe) tyrė galimą duomenų autorinių teisių pažeidimą Lietuvoje. Šio tyrimo pasekoje buvo nuspręsta užblokuoti kai kurias paskyras, ir ištrinti jų įvestus duomenis. Pradinis įtarimas buvo iškeltas el. pašto konferencijoje (http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2008-August/001077.html ), dėl ko buvo susisiekta su suinteresuotomis šalimis. Konkrečiai, naudotojas Pranas negalėjo pateikti patenkinamo atsako dėl jo įvestų duomenų šaltinio, taigi šio naudotojo paskyra buvo sustabdyta tolesniam tyrimui. Manome, kad iškart po to šis naudotojas ar kiti netoliese dirbantys naudotojai sukūrė daugelį paskyrų per keletą valandų, kas sukėlė daugiau įtarimų. Šią situaciją išsprendėme sustabdydami visas šias paskyras ir pašalindami visus jų įvestus duomenis. Tai dalį duomenų sugrąžins į senesnę būseną, ir dalis vėlesnių pakeitimų bus prarasta. Tai yra skaudu, bet neišvengiama. Paskyrų, kurias palietė šis sprendimas, sąrašas yra pateiktas wiki. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism/Purge_19032009 Į kiekvienos užblokuotos paskyros nurodytą el. pašto adresą išsiuntėme žinutę, kurioje pranešėme apie šį sprendimą, bei nurodėme, kaip susisiekti su darbo grupe dėl šio sprendimo peržiūrėjimo. Be to, išsiuntėme pranešimus visiems vartotojams, kurie prisidėjo prie Lietuvos duomenų kūrimo, pranešdami jiems, kad kai kurie jų pakeitimai galėjo būti prarasti, jei jie buvo padaryti virš pašalintų duomenų. Kadangi šie abejotini duomenys vis dar egzistuoja ankstesniuose planet dumpuose, šie dumpai taip pat pašalinti. Mes tikimės, kad šie dumpai bus vėl prieinami, kai abejotini duomenys bus iš jų pašalinti. Tikimės bendruomenės pagalbos darant šį darbą. Jei turite klausimų apie šį reikalą, arba bet kokių klausimų dėl duomenų OpenStreetMap duomenų bazėje, kreipkitės į Duomenų darbo grupę šiuo adresu: d...@osmfoundation.org Duomenų darbo grupė OpenStreetMap Foundation - The Data Working Group (formerly called the Vandalism Working Group) has been investigating a possible data copyright infringement in Lithuania. As a result of this investigation it has been decided by the group to block a number of accounts and to delete data relating to these accounts. The original allegation was raised on the talk mailing list http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2008-August/001077.htmlwhich resulted in some initial communication with the parties concerned. Specifically the user Pranas was not able to provide an acceptable response with respect to the origin of the data entered into OpenStreetMap and this persons account was temporarily suspended for further investigation. At the same time we believe that this user and or other users in the area registered multiple new OpenStreetMap usernames over a short period of a few hours, this further raised concerns. The process, which is now complete, has been to shut all of these accounts and remove all the data belonging to them, this will result in the rollback of some data and the loss of some data due to later edits, this is unavoidable but regrettable. The usernames impacted by this decision can be found on the wiki. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism/Purge_19032009 The registered email address for each account that has been closed has been sent an email informing of the decision with details of how to contact the working group in case of appeal. Furthermore we have emailed all the other contributors of data in Lithuania to let them know why data has suddenly been removed and to notify them that they may have lost some of their own data if edits lay on top of the data removed. Because potentially questionable data still exists in previous planet dumps these dumps are being withdrawn. It is hoped that these dumps can be made available again once the questionable data has been removed, community technical support is requested for undertaking this work. If you have any questions about this matter or any other matter relating to the data in the database please email the data working group at d...@osmfoundation.org. You can find general guidance on how to treat data abuse, disputes and vandalism, on the wiki at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism. Data Working Group OpenStreetMap Foundation ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Moving few meters some OSM/SHP file
I'm trying to find in OpenJump which menu can offer me to move the distance and angle. Do you know exactly which one? Thanks. Ivan. On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Jukka Rahkonen jukka.rahko...@mmmtike.fiwrote: Ivan Garcia capiscuas at gmail.com writes: Hi, is there any program GUI or command line that allows me to move all the nodes of a OSM/SHP file few meters in any direction N/S/E/W ?I've tried JOSM but I need to do it manually sellecting all the nodes and moving with SHIFT+arrowsBest regards. OpenJUMP can do that with shapefiles. Select the features, give distance and angle and you've done. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Moving few meters some OSM/SHP file
Ivan Garcia capiscuas at gmail.com writes: I'm trying to find in OpenJump which menu can offer me to move the distance and angle. Do you know exactly which one?Thanks.Ivan. Hi, It seems to be available only from the mouse right click menu, in English the selection is perhaps Move along angle. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Routable Garmin kaarten
Geert Schuring wrote: ik zit te wachten op midden nederland Even geduld nog :-) klopt het dat de routeerbare kaart nu zowel voor fietsers als voor auto's routeerbaar is? De Garmin device bepaald welke soorten vervoer gebruikt kunnen worden op de kaart. Op voorwaarde dat er data aanwezig is. Nu heeft OSM gelukkig veel fietspaden en voetpaden, dus ja: voetgangers, fietsers, automobilisten etc kunnen deze kaart gebruiken. - Original Message From: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list talk-nl@openstreetmap.org To: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list talk-nl@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Routable Garmin kaarten Date: 17/03/09 14:12 Sinds kort staan ook de kaartdelen voor noord en zuid Amerika online. Er zijn nog een paar gebieden in noordwest Europa die niet renderen, dat wordt in de komende tijd opgelost. De nieuwe locatie voor de routeerbare Garmin kaart is nu: http://garmin.na1400.info/routable.html ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.10 ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [Talk-br] Portal. Agora vai?
Olá Vitor, Esta de pé sim!!! Roberto On 17/03/2009, at 21:38, Vitor George vitor.geo...@gmail.com wrote: Amigos, A gente discutiu bastante a idéia do portal, registrou domínio, mas acabou não indo em frente. Eu tenho tentando falar com o Arlindo, mas não consigo encontrá-lo. É uma pena, porque ele já tinha registrado o domínio mapaslivres.or g. De qualquer maneira ainda podemos registrar o openstreetmap-br.org. Sobre a hospedagem, lembro que o Roberto havia oferecido. Ainda é po ssível, Roberto? Queria ver se conseguimos colocar o Drupal no ar, pois o projeto est á muito parado! Nas últimas semanas não houve nenhuma inscrição na lista. O OSM comemorou hoje (ou ontem) o 100.000ésimo usuário, mas eu chuto que a comunidade brasileira devem ficar na casa dos 0,5%. Temos que reverter este quadro! Abraços, Vitor. ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-de] Fixme
Hi Dominique, Wenn ich die ganze Stadtmitte mit Road zu pflastere ist es auch nichts ...ich dachte mehr an einem Tag der sich mit Suchtools wieder leicht zurück finden lässt...wenn ich mir später vor Ort ein paar notizen gemacht habe. Oder welche jemand anderes der Ortskundig ist ergänzen kann. ich verwende für so etwas note=FIXME, das wird auch vom JOSM Validator erkannt und ist so recht leicht wieder zu finden bzw. auch durch Andere zu finden. Tagwatch hat dieses Tag auch oftmals in Frankreich gefunden: http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/France/En/ignored_note.html http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:note Viele Grüße Lukas ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Gauß-Krüger WGS-84
Thomas Reincke schrieb: Stefan Dettenhofer (StefanDausR) schrieb: Thomas Reincke schrieb: Die Ergebnisse lagen ~300m daneben. Da fehlte bestimmt der Ellipsoidübergang. Könnte sein, das war auch mein erster Verdacht. http://www.delphi-treff.de/tipps/mathematik/wiki/Geographische%20in%20Gau%C3%9F-Kr%C3%BCger-Koordinaten%20umrechnen/ Aha - den Code hatte ich auch mal vor längerer Zeit in mein Programm eingebaut, bis mir das mit dem Ellipsoidübergang aufgefallen ist. Die Formal von Grossmann liefert in erster Näherung eine Umrechnung in das Deutsche Hauptdreiecksnetz (EPSG: 4314) Die GK-Koordinaten benutzen genauso wie geogr. Koordinaten im DHDN das Ellipsoid WGS72 (Bessel 1841). Du willst aber WGS-84, daher benötigst Du noch den Übergang von Bessel auf WGS84. Ich benutze z.Zt. den Sourcecode von Geotrans. Der ist zwar nicht ganz so genau wie NTv2, aber die Abweichung liegt unter einem Meter (und hier kommen wir ja schon wieder in den Bereich der Plattentektonik und somit zu dem Problem WGS-84 - ETRS89 (GRS80). Noch eine Anmerkung am Rande: Wenn Du vom LVA geographische Koordinaten bekommst, dann kann es durchaus sein, dass die im DHDN (EPSG: 4314) vorliegen. Mir ist das so passiert und daher ist mir damals das Problem mit der Formel von Grossmann erst mal gar nicht aufgefallen. Gruß, Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Feuchtgebiet
Hallo, Ich will ein Feuchtgebiet markieren. JOSM benutzt den Schlüssel: natural:wetland plus wetland:swamp eine ältere Version ist: natural:marsh Meine Frage: warum wird nur bei der älteren Version in Osmarender bzw Mapnik das Symbol für Feuchtgebiet dargestellt? Habe ich da was falsch verstanden? Man kann es sogar mit Wald gleichzeitig benutzen für Auwald siehe hier Gruß Dieter ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Josm: Relation-Fenster im Vordergrund
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009, Dimitri Junker wrote: Hallo, Wenn wir einen Mechanismus schaffen, der aktive Relationsfenster über Änderungen informiert ist das Problem behoben Und wo soll da das Problem sein? Man schickt dem Relation-Editor eine Nachricht: Element xyz hat sich geändert. Und wenn das zu kompliziert sein Und genau da ist das Problem. Wer ist man. Man sind in JOSM duzende Stellen. Warum soll die Komunikation in die eine Richtung funktionieren in die andere nicht? Weil 1-Viele einfach und schon standardisiert ist, Viele-1 nicht. Jetzt sag mir doch bitte mal eine einzige kritische Aktion die ich durch die Blokierung nicht durchführen kann. Es mag ja sein, daß man bei einer geringen Auflösung so sehr behindert wird, daß man nichts macht, aber bei 2560*1024 Pixeln sehe ich da keine Einschränkung Sie kann es nicht verhindern. Dazu müsste man den Dialog komplett blockieren lassen und dadurch würde er noch schlechter zu benutzen. Es soll behindern. Wer über Absperrungen klettert muss genauso mit den Konsequenzen leben, wie derjenige der diese Blockade umgeht. Es zeigt Das ist nicht erwünscht. Wer's trotzdem macht ist selber schuld. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Feuchtgebiet - sry OT Frage
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dieter W. wrote: Man kann es sogar mit Wald gleichzeitig benutzen für Auwald siehe hier http://www.openstreetmap.com/?lat=52.28018lon=13.44873zoom=17layers=0B00FTFT Nur mal ne Frage, was ist das denn da für nen Kasten etwas weiter westlich? http://www.openstreetmap.com/?lat=52.28002lon=13.43306zoom=17layers=0B00FTF Gruß Dieter MfG, Lars Schimmer - -- - - TU Graz, Institut für ComputerGraphik WissensVisualisierung Tel: +43 316 873-5405 E-Mail: l.schim...@cgv.tugraz.at Fax: +43 316 873-5402 PGP-Key-ID: 0x4A9B1723 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknAw7QACgkQmWhuE0qbFyPtSwCdE8Bprc2Q0O84hE2GA9MuULgQ eFkAnjRYu2Havxw1brYyxRgDrzqTAOL5 =vKlO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Es gibt neue Flyer V.i.S.d.P. ?
Hallo, gestern am Stammtisch in München sind einige Flyer nicht wegegangen bzw. nicht angenommen worden, weil V.i.S.d.P. fehlt! Wenn hier sonst soviel über Lizenzen und rechtliche Sachen gestritten wird, kann ich nicht verstehen, wie dann so etwas übersehen werden kann. Mit freundlichen Grüßen Thomas Schäfer Am Freitag 06 März 2009 schrieb Frederik Ramm: Hallo, mittlerweile haben wir sage und schreibe 25.000 von den alten Flyern unters Volk gebracht, und ich musste nachproduzieren. Mir war die braune Farbe ueber (und ich konnte auch den Witz nicht mehr hoeren, ob wir fairen Kaffee verkaufen wuerden oder so) ;-) daher habe ich den Flyer jetzt eher so blaugrau statt braun eingefaerbt und das Titelbild gegen etwas moderneres ausgetauscht. http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/flyer-neu.jpg Falls jemand vorher schonmal ueber http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Frederik_Ramm/Creating_Very_Large_M arble_Images gestolpert war, dann wisst ihr jetzt, wozu ich das brauchte - wir haben jetzt eine Marble-Weltkugel auf dem Titel. Im Druck kommt das alles ganz huebsch raus - *etwas* bunter als auf dem Bildschirm, aber IMHO eine gelungene Abwechslung. Die Quelldateien zum Flyer sind im OSM-SVN unter misc/pr_material/german_flyer_2009_03. Wie gewohnt, kann der Flyer bei mir in 10/100/200 Stueck kostenlos bestellt werden. Ich habe auch noch einen kleinen Restbestand von den brauen, also wenn jemand partout die alten besser findet, gibts die auch noch ;-) Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Feuchtgebiet - sry OT Frage
Lars Schimmer schrieb: Nur mal ne Frage, was ist das denn da für nen Kasten etwas weiter westlich? http://www.openstreetmap.com/?lat=52.28002lon=13.43306zoom=17layers=0B00FTF Getagged ist es als Way 23891033 * aeroway: runway * created_by: Potlatch 0.8a Gruß Tobias signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Josm: Relation-Fenster im Vordergrund
Hallo, Und genau da ist das Problem. Wer ist man. Man sind in JOSM duzende Stellen. Und da wird nicht irgendeine Klasse verwendet über die die Änderungen durchgeführt werden? Ist da wirklich un 'guter' alter Manier alles in globalen Variablen? Wer über Absperrungen klettert muss genauso mit den Konsequenzen leben, wie derjenige der diese Blockade umgeht. Das da was blokiert werden soll habe ich erst durch Eure Komentare bemerkt. Mein erster Eindruck war: wer hat denn das programiert. Es war für mich also nicht als Sicherheitsabsperrung erkennbar sondern als scheinbare Fehlkonstruktion. Deutlich besser wäre eine Warnung (abstellbar) beim Öffnen des Relation-Editors wo klipp und klar drin steht was man nicht tuen soll. Denn jetzt sieht es ja so aus (am Beispiel von Busrouten). Man muß das Hauptfenster und den Relationeditor gleichzeitig benutzen, schon alleine um Elemente hinzuzufügen. Einer bestehenden Bushaltestelle einen Namen geben ist wohl auch unkritisch, nur kommt der Name nicht an wenn die Haltestelle schon in der Relation ist. Also macht man weiter und findet eine fehlende Haltestelle, fügt die ein, zuerst in die Karte dann in die Relation, sollte auch unkritisch sein. Dann will man ein Straßenstück einfügen, muß es aber vorher teilen. Teilt man erst und fügt dann ein sollte auch alles OK sein. Bemerkt man aber, daß ein bereits eingetragener way zu lang ist wird es kritisch, obwohl das wahrscheinlich auch noch halbwegs klappt. Spätestens wenn man im Hauptfenster etwas löscht was im Relation-Editor enthalten ist wird es wirklich kritisch. Langer Rede kurzer Sinn: Man muß in beiden Fenstern gleichzeitig arbeiten gewöhnt sich dabei an die Einschränkungen und erkennt nicht wann der kritische Moment kommt. Dimitri ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Feuchtgebiet
Dieter W. schrieb: Ich will ein Feuchtgebiet markieren. Hmmm, wieso muss ich gerade an eine MTV-Moderatorin denken? *g* JOSM benutzt den Schlüssel: natural:wetland plus wetland:swamp eine ältere Version ist: natural:marsh Meine Frage: warum wird nur bei der älteren Version in Osmarender bzw Mapnik das Symbol für Feuchtgebiet dargestellt? Habe ich da was falsch verstanden? Die Renderer sind manchmal etwas hinterher. ;-) laut Mapfeatures ist marsh tatsächlich veraltet (warum auch immer) : natural=marsh Marsch, Sumpf, Moor, Ried (veraltet, siehe natural=wetland) natural=wetland Marsch, Naturbelassene Flächen, die Überflutungen ausgesetzt sind oder staunasse Böden aufweisen. Grüße Chris ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Feuchtgebiet - sry OT Frage
Nur mal ne Frage, was ist das denn da für nen Kasten etwas weiter westlich? http://www.openstreetmap.com/?lat=52.28002lon=13.43306zoom=17layers=0B00F TF ein Modellflugplatz? Das runway-tag wird vom Mapnik so gerendert, dass es für Verkehrsflugplätze passt. Für Segelflugplätze oder gar Modellflugplätze sieht das dann reichlich überdimensioniert aus. Hat schonmal jemand mit dem width-tag an runways experimentiert? -jha- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Reply-To: auf die Liste Was: Es gibt neue Flyer
Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org writes: [...] Reply-To: auf die liste ist einfach broken - aber bevor ich hier eine Diskussion vom Zaun breche habe ich das meinem procmail beigebracht: Hm, Gnus kann das auch Gruppenweise, Stichwort Ignore broken Reply-To ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Feuchtgebiet - sry OT Frage
Am 18. März 2009 12:42 schrieb Johann H. Addicks addi...@gmx.net: Nur mal ne Frage, was ist das denn da für nen Kasten etwas weiter westlich? http://www.openstreetmap.com/?lat=52.28002lon=13.43306zoom=17layers=0B00F TF ein Modellflugplatz? Nein, wahrscheinlich ein ehemaliger Flugplatz: http://www.mil-airfields.de/de/flugplatz-rangsdorf.htm Das runway-tag wird vom Mapnik so gerendert, dass es für Verkehrsflugplätze passt. Für Segelflugplätze oder gar Modellflugplätze sieht das dann reichlich überdimensioniert aus. Hat schonmal jemand mit dem width-tag an runways experimentiert? Ja, außerdem hab ich versucht die Oberfläche mit anzugeben. Kleinere Flugplätze haben ja oft Graspisten. Die Renderer machen aber immer das gleiche daraus. Gruß Jürgen ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Es gibt neue Flyer V.i.S.d.P. ?
Am 18. März 2009 11:13 schrieb Thomas Schäfer tschae...@t-online.de: Hallo, gestern am Stammtisch in München sind einige Flyer nicht wegegangen bzw. nicht angenommen worden, weil V.i.S.d.P. fehlt! ja, so einen Flyer hätte ich auch nie angenommen, man weiss ja nicht, vielleicht steckt eine terroristische Vereinigung dahinter, man nimmt nichtsahnend so ein Teil und schwuppdiwupp ehe man sich versieht findet man sich in einem Internierungscamp auf Guantanamo oder Afghanistan wieder... Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] or/p mit ActivePerl unter Windows nicht nutzbar?
Am 15.03.2009 03:44, schrieb Johann H. Addicks: Stefan Muthers schrieb: Backslashs verwendet werden. Lässt sich or/p dennoch irgendwie unter Windows benutzen? Wenn ja, was muss ich ändern? Bin ich drueber gestolpert, als ich ergooglen wollte, was or/p überhaupt ist. Was hast Du denn herausgefunden? ich habe herausgefunden, was sich hinter dem namen or/p verbirgt. Mir wird das auch dem verlinkten Beitrag nicht klar. der OP hatte ein problem mit or/p auf windows, möglicherweise wegen hard codierten Unix Verzeichnistrenner im Code von op/p. Im verlinkten Beitrag ist eine Lösung für eine solche Hardcodierung zu finden. Ob es auch die Stelle ist, die das Problem beim OP verursacht hat, weiß ich nicht, denn ich hatte keine Zeit, das genauer zu untersuchen. Wie -- stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Gauß-Krüger WGS-84 [OffTopic]
Ist jetzt nicht mehr OSM-bezogen, aber soviele kundige Mitleser muss ich einfach ausnutzen. ;-) http://www.delphi-treff.de/tipps/mathematik/wiki/Geographische%20in%20Gau%C3%9F-Kr%C3%BCger-Koordinaten%20umrechnen/ Aha - den Code hatte ich auch mal vor längerer Zeit in mein Programm eingebaut, bis mir das mit dem Ellipsoidübergang aufgefallen ist. Die Formal von Grossmann liefert in erster Näherung eine Umrechnung in das Deutsche Hauptdreiecksnetz (EPSG: 4314) Die GK-Koordinaten benutzen genauso wie geogr. Koordinaten im DHDN das Ellipsoid WGS72 (Bessel 1841). Du willst aber WGS-84, daher benötigst Du noch den Übergang von Bessel auf WGS84. Ich benutze z.Zt. den Sourcecode von Geotrans. Der ist zwar nicht ganz so genau wie NTv2, aber die Abweichung liegt unter einem Meter (und hier kommen wir ja schon wieder in den Bereich der Plattentektonik und somit zu dem Problem WGS-84 - ETRS89 (GRS80). Ich möchte die Transformation von WGS84 in GK in SQL nachbilden. Ich habe eine gut funktionierende Transformation in c#, aber diese besteht aus vielen Objekten und Unterfunktionen, das ist nur sehr umständlich in SQL zu implementieren. Der Delphi-Code hinter obigem Link ist da deutlich angenehmer. Hab es nun auch schnell hinbekommen, aber natürlich die bereits angesprochene Abweichung von ein paar hundert Metern. Nachdem ich nun den ganzen Vormittag nach einer Möglichkeit gesucht habe, die Ellipsoidtransformation durchzuführen gebe ich auf und bitte Euch um Hilfe. Also, wie bekomme ich den obigen code dazu das gleiche Ergebnis zu liefern wie https://upd.geodatenzentrum.de/auftrupd/ktrans?sprache=deu bei Geo84 - GK3. Ich habe bereits versucht die Werte für e2 und c auf den WGS-ellipsoiden anzupassen, aber das hat nicht geholfen (was ist c überhaupt)? Wäre toll, wenn ihr mir helfen könntet. Gerrit ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Es gibt neue Flyer V.i.S.d.P. ?
-Original Message- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:01:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [Talk-de] Es gibt neue Flyer V.i.S.d.P. ? From: Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com To: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch talk-de@openstreetmap.org Am 18. März 2009 11:13 schrieb Thomas Schäfer tschae...@t-online.de: Hallo, gestern am Stammtisch in München sind einige Flyer nicht wegegangen bzw. nicht angenommen worden, weil V.i.S.d.P. fehlt! ja, so einen Flyer hätte ich auch nie angenommen, man weiss ja nicht, vielleicht steckt eine terroristische Vereinigung dahinter, man nimmt nichtsahnend so ein Teil und schwuppdiwupp ehe man sich versieht findet man sich in einem Internierungscamp auf Guantanamo oder Afghanistan wieder... Gruß Martin Man muss nicht alles ins Lächerliche ziehen. Derjenige meinte das ernst und wenn ich mir andere Flyer/Prospekte anschaue - hat er Recht. MIt freundlichen Grüßen Thomas Schäfer ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Es gibt neue Flyer V.i.S.d.P. ?
Am 18. März 2009 13:36 schrieb tschae...@t-online.de tschae...@t-online.de: -Original Message- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:01:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [Talk-de] Es gibt neue Flyer V.i.S.d.P. ? From: Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com To: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch talk-de@openstreetmap.org Am 18. März 2009 11:13 schrieb Thomas Schäfer tschae...@t-online.de: Hallo, gestern am Stammtisch in München sind einige Flyer nicht wegegangen bzw. nicht angenommen worden, weil V.i.S.d.P. fehlt! ja, so einen Flyer hätte ich auch nie angenommen, man weiss ja nicht, vielleicht steckt eine terroristische Vereinigung dahinter, man nimmt nichtsahnend so ein Teil und schwuppdiwupp ehe man sich versieht findet man sich in einem Internierungscamp auf Guantanamo oder Afghanistan wieder... Gruß Martin Man muss nicht alles ins Lächerliche ziehen. Derjenige meinte das ernst und wenn ich mir andere Flyer/Prospekte anschaue - hat er Recht. sehe ich nicht so, immerhin ist ja mit der Internetadresse das Ganze weit davon entfernt, anonym oder nicht nachvollziehbar zu sein. Die Adresse steht groß und fett vorne drauf. Ich kann mir ehrlich gesagt auch keinen Fall vorstellen (ausser Paragraphenreiterei), dass das V.i.S.d.P. hier eine Rolle spielen könnte, es geht ja nicht (direkt) um ein politisches Thema. Klar, wenn ich einen politschen Flyer verteile (meinetwegen einen Demo- oder Boykottaufruf, ein politsches Pamphlet oder Werbung für eine Partei), mache ich das in jedem Fall drauf, aber bei OSM? Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Gauß-Krüger WGS-84 [OffTopic]
Hallo Gerrit, Ich möchte die Transformation von WGS84 in GK in SQL nachbilden. Ich fände schön, wenn wir für OSM eine Funktion hätten, mit der wir Koordinaten und Höhen aus jedem System in jedes andere umformen könnten. a) zum Einbauen in beliebige Programme b) als Web-Interface Tobias ist da auch grad dran, die Ergebnisse finde man hier: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/de:Altitude Mit herzlichem Gruss, Markus PS: kannst Du diese Tabelle vervollständigen? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/de:Altitude#Bezugsystem ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Gauß-Krüger WGS-84 [OffTopic]
Hallo Gerrit, Gerrit Lammert schrieb: Ist jetzt nicht mehr OSM-bezogen, aber soviele kundige Mitleser muss ich einfach ausnutzen. ;-) http://www.delphi-treff.de/tipps/mathematik/wiki/Geographische%20in%20Gau%C3%9F-Kr%C3%BCger-Koordinaten%20umrechnen/ (...) Also, wie bekomme ich den obigen code dazu das gleiche Ergebnis zu liefern wie https://upd.geodatenzentrum.de/auftrupd/ktrans?sprache=deu bei Geo84 - GK3. Ich habe bereits versucht die Werte für e2 und c auf den WGS-ellipsoiden anzupassen, aber das hat nicht geholfen (was ist c überhaupt)? Das geht gar nicht, da der o.g. Code keine Ellipsoid-Transformation macht! Diese kann man z.B. mit einer Helmert-Transformatiion erledigen. Du musst dazu einen ganz anderen Code nutzen: z.B. Geotrans oder Proj4 Wenn Du das in SQL lösen willst, dann kannst Du auch gleich eine entsprechende Datenbank nehmen, die die Koordinatentransformationen schon eingebaut hat: Oracle (spatial) kann das und die PostGIS-Erweiterung zu PostgreSQL sicherlich auch. Gruß, Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Gauß-Krüger WGS-84 [OffTopic]
uff - falscher Link. Richtig ist: Tobias ist da auch grad dran, die Ergebnisse finde man hier: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/de:Gauß-Krüger Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Es gibt neue Flyer V.i.S.d.P. ?
sehe ich nicht so, immerhin ist ja mit der Internetadresse das Ganze weit davon entfernt, anonym oder nicht nachvollziehbar zu sein. Die Adresse steht groß und fett vorne drauf. Das stimmt nun schon mal nicht. Vorne steht nur openStreetMap unterwegs für eine frei Weltkarte Ich kann mir ehrlich gesagt auch keinen Fall vorstellen (ausser Paragraphenreiterei), dass das V.i.S.d.P. hier eine Rolle spielen könnte, es geht ja nicht (direkt) um ein politisches Thema. Klar, wenn ich einen politschen Flyer verteile (meinetwegen einen Demo- oder Boykottaufruf, ein politsches Pamphlet oder Werbung für eine Partei), mache ich das in jedem Fall drauf, aber bei OSM? Und wenn man hinschreiben kann wer die Druckkosten übernommen hat, sollte man wohl auch hinschreiben, welche Person maßgeblich für den Inhalt des Flyers verantwortlich ist. Wie gesagt ich wurde gestern von einem aktiven Wikipediamitglied darauf hingewiesen, dass er sie so nicht mitnehmen braucht, weil da, wo er sie auslegen könnte, alles ohne V.i.S.d.P. vernichtet wird. Ich kenne das Presserecht nicht. Aber Deine Einschätzung, dass ich OSM von den Dingen, die Du oben aufgezählt hast, so stark unterscheidet, glaube nicht. Schließlich steckt auch in freie Karte ein politsche Bedeutung. Und der Anspruch der keine Nutzungseinschränkungen stellt indirekt einen Boykottaufruf zu den teilweise werbefinanzierten Bezahlkarten dar. Mit freundlichen Grüßen Thomas Schäfer ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Nachrichten von Gary68
Hallo alle zusammen, anbei die Nachrichten von Gary68... NEU ist der Kreisel Check unter Some Checks. Hier wurden am Wochenende knapp 600 Fehler bereinigt. PS: Er kann auch Linksverkehr. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SomeChecks Die Summe aller Einträge beläuft sich derzeit auf 74.251. Alle bugs als GPX file http://www.gary68.de/osm/qa/gpx/allbugs.gpx ODER ein Extrakt daraus: http://www.gary68.de/osm/qa/gpx/extract.htm ODER als PERMALINK http://www.gary68.de/osm/qa/gpx/extract.php?left=7right=8top=49bottom=48 Mapping Quality http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapping_Quality MotorwayCheck http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MotorwayCheck OSB Reports http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSB_Reports Osmdiff http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmdiff_reports SomeChecks (Area) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SomeChecks SomeChecks (double nodes in ways) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SomeChecks Roundabout Check http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SomeChecks Unmapped Places http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Unkartografiert WayCheck http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:WayCheck Ciao Gerhard Gary68 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM und Wikipedia kooperieren
Am Dienstag, 17. März 2009 21:12 schrieb André Reichelt: Sven Anders schrieb: Aus diesem Grund hat Wikimedia Deutschland 15.000 Euro für Hardware bereit gestellt und startet zusammen mit Mappern aus der OSM-Community ein entsprechendes Pilotprojekt. So hat sich eine Gruppe von interessierten Wikipedianern und OSMlern zusammengefunden, um zwei Ziele zu erreichen: Die Integration von OSM-Karten innerhalb der Wikipedia und den Aufbau eines „Karten-Toolservers”. Solange OSM nicht zu so einem bürokratischen Haufen wie die Wikipedia verkommt. OSM sollten auf jeden Fall völlig unabhängig von der Wikimedia-Foundaion und sonstigen Institutionen bleiben. Das mit der Unabhängigkeit ist natürlich immer so eine Sache, wenn Wikipedia in drei Jahren sagen würde: Ätch ihr bekommt jetzt keine Server mehr dann müssten wir schnell etwas neues finden (was aber auch nicht mehr als eine Woche einen Spendenaufruf auf der HP schalten ist). Aber ich finde bevor wir die Wikipedia so kritisieren, sollten wir uns mal unsere eigene Nase anschauen (die Art und weise wie die OSMF entscheidet, etc). (Ich warte jetzt auf den nächsten Blog-Beitrag in dem steht: Die OSMF ist die Nase von OSM.) Gruß Sven ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Gauß-Krüger WGS-84 [OffTopic]
Hi Stefan. On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:14:34 +0100, Stefan Dettenhofer (StefanDausR) Das geht gar nicht, da der o.g. Code keine Ellipsoid-Transformation macht! Diese kann man z.B. mit einer Helmert-Transformatiion erledigen. Du musst dazu einen ganz anderen Code nutzen: z.B. Geotrans oder Proj4 Jo, hatte inzwischen auch aufgegeben und den gut funktionierenden C#-Code transformiert. Ist zwar eine ziemliche Arbeit (Objektorientiert in SQL erzeugt Unmengen von DECLARE-Anweisungen und meine linke Hand ist ganz ausgeleiert vom @-Zeochen hinzufügen), aber funktioniert jetzt wie es soll. Wenn Du das in SQL lösen willst, dann kannst Du auch gleich eine entsprechende Datenbank nehmen, die die Koordinatentransformationen schon eingebaut hat: Oracle (spatial) kann das und die PostGIS-Erweiterung zu PostgreSQL sicherlich auch. Schön wärs. Die Koordinatentransformation ist nur eine ganz kleine Anwendung. Das ganze läuft auf MSSQL, also keine Geofunktionen (sofern ich weiß). Danke für Eure Hilfe. Gerrit ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM und Wikipedia kooperieren
Moin, Solange OSM nicht zu so einem bürokratischen Haufen wie die Wikipedia verkommt. OSM sollten auf jeden Fall völlig unabhängig von der Wikimedia-Foundaion und sonstigen Institutionen bleiben. ich interpretiere das mal in Richtung dieser IMHO nervigen Relevanzkriterien. Man kann ja bei der WP nichts mehr schreiben ohne den Relevanzkatalog auswendig zu kennen. Wenn ich erst nachschauen muß, welche Sachen ich in OSM taggen darf, weil sie irgendjemand für relevant erachtet, schwindet schnell die Lust. LG Stefano ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Lizenz: Nearby-User abgeleitete Datenbank?
Hi! unter http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/[username]/account kann man seine Position auf einer Slippymap eintragen und wird dann für andere Mitglieder auf der Karte Nearby-Users angezeigt... Diese Daten stellen dann doch eine abgeleitete Datenbank dar und müssten in Zunkunft unter der ODbL, auch für Nichtmitglieder, als Datenbank veröffentlicht werden? Stimmt das? Gruß, Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Feuchtgebiet
Chris-Hein Lunkhusen schrieb: laut Mapfeatures ist marsh tatsächlich veraltet (warum auch immer) : natural=marsh Marsch, Sumpf, Moor, Ried (veraltet, siehe natural=wetland) natural=wetland Marsch, Naturbelassene Flächen, die Überflutungen ausgesetzt sind oder staunasse Böden aufweisen. Wenn du bei wetland nachschaust, dann siehst du, dass du mit wetland=* noch weiter unterscheiden sollst. Statt natural=marsh jetzt also natural=wetland und zusaetzlich wetland=marsh. Daneben ist jetzt z.B. auch saltmarsh fuer Salzwiesen oder swamp definiert, letzteres wuerde laut Beschreibung zu Auwaeldern passen. In meinen Augen ist wetland schon eine der besseren Neuerungen, die es in letzter Zeit gegeben hat. Gruss Torsten ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenz: Nearby-User abgeleitete Datenbank?
Hallo. Am Mittwoch, 18. März 2009 schrieb Stefan Schwan: unter der ODbL, auch für Nichtmitglieder, als Datenbank veröffentlicht werden? Unterscheidet sich die ODbL in diesem Punkt so sehr von den gängigen Sharealike-Lizenzen? Ich kenne jetzt den Wortlaut der ODbL dazu nicht, aber z.B. bei der GPL geht es immer nur um die Lizenz unter der ich es weitergebe, nicht um das Zielpublikum. Ich kann also z.B. ohne Probleme sagen, niemand bekommt meinen Sourcecode außer den Leuten die mein Programm kaufen. Nur darf dann jeder von denen den Sourcecode frei weitergeben wenn er mag. Aber ich muss ihn nur den Leuten zugänglich machen die das Produkt an sich von mir bekommen. Gruß, Bernd -- EXCLUSIVE PHOTO: Turing machine with two heads! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenz: Nearby-User abgeleitete Datenbank?
Hi! Stefan Schwan schrieb: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/[username]/account kann man seine Position auf einer Slippymap eintragen und wird dann für andere Mitglieder auf der Karte Nearby-Users angezeigt... Diese Daten stellen dann doch eine abgeleitete Datenbank dar und müssten in Zunkunft unter der ODbL, auch für Nichtmitglieder, als Datenbank veröffentlicht werden? Stimmt das? Würde ich nicht so sehen. Die Marker werden in einer unabhängigen Layer gemalt und separat verwaltet, die OSM-Daten werden dadurch nicht verändert. Also entsteht auch keine abgeleitete DB. bye Nop ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] JOSM Eigenschaften-Fenster wieder andocken
Hallo, ich hab unabsichtlich in JOSM auf das Pin-Symbol des Eigenschaftenfensters geklickt, worauf das nun ein eigenes Fenster ist, das sich ums Verrecken nicht wieder andocken lässt. Wie krige ich das hin? tia Roland ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM und Wikipedia kooperieren
Stefano Kowalke schrieb: Moin, Solange OSM nicht zu so einem bürokratischen Haufen wie die Wikipedia verkommt. OSM sollten auf jeden Fall völlig unabhängig von der Wikimedia-Foundaion und sonstigen Institutionen bleiben. ich interpretiere das mal in Richtung dieser IMHO nervigen Relevanzkriterien. Moin! Ja genau, das meine ich. Eigentlich sollte man zum Protest dagegen die Wikipedia überall so lange blacklisten, bis diese überheblichen Bürokraten alle entlassen werden. André signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] User visualisieren
Moin ! gibt es einen einfachen Weg alle highways eines Users in einem bestimmten Gebiet zu visualisien ?? Gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] User visualisieren
Jan Tappenbeck schrieb: Moin ! gibt es einen einfachen Weg alle highways eines Users in einem bestimmten Gebiet zu visualisien ?? OSM-Mapper von ito-world sollte das können. Gruß Jonas ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] highway=bus_stop und weitere tags f ür diesen Node
Hallo, auf http://öpnvkarte.de kann man ja schon seit einiger Zeit die Bus- S-Bahn und sonstige Routen sehen. Beim Mappen von Bushaltestellen in München und Umgebung bin ich nun auf unterschiedliche Vorgehensweisen beim taggen der Haltestellen gestoßen. highway=bus_stop bus_lines=210,216oder bus_routes=210,216 oderref=210,216 name=Jahnstraße shelter=yes/no operator=MVG network=MVV website:official=http://www.mvv-muenchen.de Da Bus:Routes die Nummer der Busline im ref tag hat würde ich das auch so für bus_stop machen wollen und die anderen tags entfernen. Wie sieht es denn mit shelter=yes/no aus? Oder doch lieber amenity=shelter? Für dieses gint es in der CycleMap aber schon ein Icon. Das würde ein Bus-Icon und ein Hütten-Icon am selben Node ergeben. Ich weiss, wir mappen nicht für die Renderer, aber die Renderer sind auch ein Teil von OSM und sollten daher zumindest nicht ignoriert werden. Ansonsten denke ich, name, operator, network und website(:official) sind konform mit den Bus:Routes und können so bleiben. Und das die Haltestellen jeweils neben der Straße eingezeichnet werden ist ja auch schon länger Konsens. Wie seht Ihr (in anderen Städten) die Sache? Gruß, Toni ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Groesstes OSM-Treffen weltweit? Einladung nach Essen!
Hallo! Vielleicht sind wir ja das größte monatliche OSM-Treffen weltweit. Falls nicht, ist es bei uns trotzdem nett! Auf jeden Fall möchte ich auf diesem Weg auch die OSMler aus den Nachbarstädten und solche, die gerade zufällig oder absichtlich in der Nähe sind herzlich einladen, am: Samstag, 28.03.2009 ab 19:00 Uhr nach Essen (Ruhr) ins Unperfekthaus (UPH) in den großen Raum rechts neben der Treppe nach oben. Wer schon immer mal wissen wollte, was die OSM Foundation so treibt kann an diesem Abend Henk Hoff treffen, der selbige einmal vorstellt. Infos zum UPH und seinem Eintrittspreis gibt es hier [1]. Rückmeldungen zum OSM-Treffen sind hier [2] erbeten. Dort gibt es auch ein paar weitere Infos. Viele Grüße aus der Kulturhauptstadt 2010! vom Rotbarsch [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Essen/OSM-Treffen/Unperfekthaus [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Essen/OSM-Treffen#Geplante_Treffen ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] User visualisieren
Jan Tappenbeck schrieb: Moin ! gibt es einen einfachen Weg alle highways eines Users in einem bestimmten Gebiet zu visualisien ?? Gruß Jan :-) Mit dem Usertools-Plugin in JOSM kann man alle Objekte auswählen/markieren, bei denen der User als letzter eingetragen ist. -- Gruß Mario signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Rheinkilometrierung / Stromkilometer
Hat jemand einen Vorschlag für die Erfassung der Stromkilometrierungen? Welche Tags wären sinnig? Oder halten das hier alle für sinnlos? (Kann ich mir gar nicht vorstellen, da die Kilometerangabe oft für Fähren, Inseln, Brücken, Untiefen etc. eingesetzt wird). Ich bin ganz erstaunt, darüber noch nichts im Wiki zu finden ... und hab mal eine Frage dazu auf die Diskussionsseite zum Rhein gesetzt. Gruß, Schusch ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] User visualisieren
DarkAngel schrieb: Jan Tappenbeck schrieb: gibt es einen einfachen Weg alle highways eines Users in einem bestimmten Gebiet zu visualisien ?? Mit dem Usertools-Plugin in JOSM kann man alle Objekte auswählen/markieren, bei denen der User als letzter eingetragen ist. Da braucht man nicht mal ein Plugin, das kann die eingebaute (und äußerst leistungsfähige) Suchfunktion des JOSM. Einfach nach user:Namedesbenutzers suchen. Damit lässt sich das Resultat auch, wie gewünscht, auf highways einschränken: user:Namedesbenutzers highway: für alle Objekte des Benutzers mit highway-Key oder user:Namedesbenutzers type:way highway: für alle Ways des Benutzers mit highway-Key. Die Frage (visualisieren) war natürlich etwas unklar gestellt, auch wenn ich vermute, dass JOSM-Selektion wohl nicht das gewünschte war. Aber egal. Hab ich schon erwähnt, dass ich die JOSM-Suche schlichtweg genial finde? ;-) Tobias Knerr ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] highway=bus_stop und weitere tags f ür diesen Node
Hi Toni. Toni Erdmann wrote: auf http://öpnvkarte.de kann man ja schon seit einiger Zeit die Bus- S-Bahn und sonstige Routen sehen. Ja, das ist echt fein. Da Bus:Routes die Nummer der Busline im ref tag hat würde ich das auch so für bus_stop machen wollen und die anderen tags entfernen. Ich denke, aktuell ist, dass die Linie gar nicht mehr als Attribut des Stops eingetragen wird, sondern durch die Aufnahme des Stops in die entsprechende Route-Relation. dadurch ist die Information ja vorhanden. Und wenn mal wieder eine Buslinie umbenannt wird (geschieht hier ständig), dann brauch man das nur einmal anzupassen und nicht an jeder Haltestelle. Wie sieht es denn mit shelter=yes/no aus? Oder doch lieber amenity=shelter? Ich mache es so, dass amenity=shelter einen einzelnen Node beschreibt (wenn man sehr detailliert mapt) und shelter=yes eine Eigenschaft des Nodes ist, an den es gehängt wird (hier also des Busstop). Also einmal: Hier ist die Haltestelle und hier ist das Häusschen Und das andere mal: Hier ist die Haltestelle mit einem Wartehäusschen Und das die Haltestellen jeweils neben der Straße eingezeichnet werden ist ja auch schon länger Konsens. Guck Dir doch auch mal http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Proposed_features/unified_stoparea an... Gerrit ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Es gibt neue Flyer V.i.S.d.P. ?
tschae...@t-online.de schrieb: Und wenn man hinschreiben kann wer die Druckkosten übernommen hat, sollte man wohl auch hinschreiben, welche Person maßgeblich für den Inhalt des Flyers verantwortlich ist. Muss man aber nicht, laut Landespressegesetz Baden-Württemberg brauchen nur periodische Druckwerke einen verantwortlichen Redakteur... ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Rheinkilometrierung / Stromkilometer
Schorschi schrieb: Hat jemand einen Vorschlag für die Erfassung der Stromkilometrierungen? Welche Tags wären sinnig? Oder halten das hier alle für sinnlos? (Kann ich mir gar nicht vorstellen, da die Kilometerangabe oft für Fähren, Inseln, Brücken, Untiefen etc. eingesetzt wird). Ich bin ganz erstaunt, darüber noch nichts im Wiki zu finden ... und hab mal eine Frage dazu auf die Diskussionsseite zum Rhein gesetzt. Den Bedarf gibt es ja u.a. auch bei Autobahnen. Das Problem ist dass man derzeit in OSM solche Kilometersteine nicht gegen verschieben schützen kann. Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mapsource - Europakarte mit Höhenline n UND routeable?
Torsten Leistikow schrieb: Die Skripte, Style- und Typ-Dateien von mir gibt es auf http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:De_muur Vielen Dank für die wirklich umfassende Dokumentation! -jha- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Rheinkilometrierung / Stromkilometer
Garry schrieb: Den Bedarf gibt es ja u.a. auch bei Autobahnen. Das Problem ist dass man derzeit in OSM solche Kilometersteine nicht gegen verschieben schützen kann. Mein Ansatz wäre jetzt gewesen, die bestätigte Position (wie auch immer ermittelt) in die Note als Lat/Lon zu schreiben und da wöchentlich ein Script drüberlaufen zu lassen, um ggf. Alarm zu schlagen. Es soll einen User geben, der bei OSM für soetwas Checkscripte baut ;-) -jha- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] highway=bus_stop und weitere tags f ür diesen Node
Hallo, Und das die Haltestellen jeweils neben der Straße eingezeichnet werden ist ja auch schon länger Konsens. Nein ist es nicht, Will man nämlich eine Relation für die Buslinie erzeugen müssen alle Haltestellen auf der Straße sein nicht daneben. Ganz einfach weil es 3 Arten von Haltestellen gibt: stop, forward_stop und backward_stop Erstere wird von Bussen in beiden Fahrtrichtungen angefahren die anderen nur in einer Richtung. Dabei wird die Richtung des Weges zu Grunde gelegt. Also muß die Haltestelle zu einem Weg gehören. Und zwar auch nur zu einem. Dies gilt zwar nur bei Stops die nur in einer Richtung angefahren werden, aber das sind ja genau die die Du neben der Straße zeichnen willst. Gruß Dimitri ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM Eigenschaften-Fenster wieder andocken
Am 18. März 2009 19:12 schrieb Roland Spielhofer rsp...@gmx.net: Hallo, ich hab unabsichtlich in JOSM auf das Pin-Symbol des Eigenschaftenfensters geklickt, worauf das nun ein eigenes Fenster ist, das sich ums Verrecken nicht wieder andocken lässt. Wie krige ich das hin? schliessen Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] highway=bus_stop und weitere tags f ür diesen Node
Dimitri Junker schrieb: Hallo, Und das die Haltestellen jeweils neben der Straße eingezeichnet werden ist ja auch schon länger Konsens. Nein ist es nicht, Will man nämlich eine Relation für die Buslinie erzeugen müssen alle Haltestellen auf der Straße sein nicht daneben. Ganz einfach Der Mast gehört dort hingezeichnet wo er steht. Wenn OSM das nicht hin bekommen sollte gehört das Datenmodell an dieser Stelle angepasst. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-in] chennai map from Survey of India
On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM, PlaneMad theplane...@gmail.com wrote: ... but my contacts in the chennai corporation have promised to share their information with me They will be able to share whatever possible legally. Indian Governments contribution to FOSS is to much. The visible name I can recall is BOSS, but I my observation is that Linux users using more Ubuntu than BOSS. -- H.S.Rai ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] chennai map from Survey of India
On Wednesday 18 March 2009 12:24:39 H.S.Rai wrote: On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM, PlaneMad theplane...@gmail.com wrote: ... but my contacts in the chennai corporation have promised to share their information with me They will be able to share whatever possible legally. hows this: http://www.surveyofindia.gov.in/tenders/nationalmappolicy/lic/internet_lic_final.pdf -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] chennai map from Survey of India
On Wednesday 18 March 2009 12:29:27 Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: On Wednesday 18 March 2009 12:24:39 H.S.Rai wrote: On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM, PlaneMad theplane...@gmail.com wrote: ... but my contacts in the chennai corporation have promised to share their information with me They will be able to share whatever possible legally. hows this: http://www.surveyofindia.gov.in/tenders/nationalmappolicy/lic/internet_lic_ final.pdf and they have their own osm too! http://www.surveyofindia.gov.in/OSMavailibility.html -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] chennai map from Survey of India
that license is as encouraging as a drunk snail. is there absolutely no public domain map data for india anywhere? right now the election comission seems to be the best bet http://eci.nic.in/GisLayers/gis_layers.asp On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.orgwrote: On Wednesday 18 March 2009 12:29:27 Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: On Wednesday 18 March 2009 12:24:39 H.S.Rai wrote: On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM, PlaneMad theplane...@gmail.com wrote: ... but my contacts in the chennai corporation have promised to share their information with me They will be able to share whatever possible legally. hows this: http://www.surveyofindia.gov.in/tenders/nationalmappolicy/lic/internet_lic_ final.pdf and they have their own osm too! http://www.surveyofindia.gov.in/OSMavailibility.html -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- http://www.tinyurl.com/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] chennai map from Survey of India
On Wednesday 18 March 2009 12:58:42 PlaneMad wrote: that license is as encouraging as a drunk snail. is there absolutely no public domain map data for india anywhere? right now the election comission seems to be the best bet http://eci.nic.in/GisLayers/gis_layers.asp am just getting junk on this -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] chennai map from Survey of India
Kenneth # PC Boundaries (Zipped SHAPE file): http://eci.nic.in/GisLayers/GIS_PC_Data.zip # AC Boundaries (Zipped SHAPE file):http://eci.nic.in/GisLayers/GIS_AC_Data.zip -- From: Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org Sent: Wednesday, 18 March 2009 13:28 To: talk-in@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-in] chennai map from Survey of India On Wednesday 18 March 2009 12:58:42 PlaneMad wrote: that license is as encouraging as a drunk snail. is there absolutely no public domain map data for india anywhere? right now the election comission seems to be the best bet http://eci.nic.in/GisLayers/gis_layers.asp am just getting junk on this -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] chennai map from Survey of India
there are two scripts available in the osm svn to do the conversion http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/import/shp2osm/ anyone want to give it a go? On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 4:16 PM, PlaneMad theplane...@gmail.com wrote: we can easily dereive all state boundaries and most of the district boundaries if we can convert the shapefiles. there still doesnt seem to be any wasy way of doing it On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Shajeer Mohammed shaj...@hotmail.comwrote: Kenneth # PC Boundaries (Zipped SHAPE file): http://eci.nic.in/GisLayers/GIS_PC_Data.zip # AC Boundaries (Zipped SHAPE file):http://eci.nic.in/GisLayers/GIS_AC_Data.zip -- From: Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org Sent: Wednesday, 18 March 2009 13:28 To: talk-in@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-in] chennai map from Survey of India On Wednesday 18 March 2009 12:58:42 PlaneMad wrote: that license is as encouraging as a drunk snail. is there absolutely no public domain map data for india anywhere? right now the election comission seems to be the best bet http://eci.nic.in/GisLayers/gis_layers.asp am just getting junk on this -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- http://www.tinyurl.com/ArunGanesh -- http://www.tinyurl.com/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] chennai map from Survey of India
On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 5:31 PM, PlaneMad theplane...@gmail.com wrote: there are two scripts available in the osm svn to do the conversion http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/import/shp2osm/ anyone want to give it a go? I used shp2osm.pl to convert: http://eci.nic.in/GisLayers/GIS_PC_Data.zip http://eci.nic.in/GisLayers/GIS_AC_Data.zip shp2osm.pl has a GK option and I was not sure what it does, so I produced osm files with and without it. The files load fine in JOSM. The output osm files are here: http://raja.jst-in.com/tmp/osm/PC_Data_States.zip http://raja.jst-in.com/tmp/osm/PC_Data_States_gk.zip http://raja.jst-in.com/tmp/osm/AC_Data_States.zip http://raja.jst-in.com/tmp/osm/AC_Data_States_gk.zip Nothing has been uploaded to OSM. Feel free to upload if you see fit. - Raja ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] chennai map from Survey of India
These file have details about on assembly constituency/parliament name. There is no district boundaries or other administrative boundaries available. So does it make sense to have them in OSM? Also before loading to OSM, there are couple of things that we need to take care 1. of course the license itself 2. What attributes from the shapefile we should take? (state name, assembly constituency/parliament name, local name, etc..). I have found files this source to have district boundaries and state boundaries. No idea abt the license http://finder.geocommons.com/overlays/4381 http://finder.geocommons.com/overlays/download/4381.zip http://finder.geocommons.com/searches?limit=10page=1query=india Regards Shajeer -- From: Raja Subramanian rajasuper...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, 18 March 2009 18:59 To: talk-in@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-in] chennai map from Survey of India On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 5:31 PM, PlaneMad theplane...@gmail.com wrote: there are two scripts available in the osm svn to do the conversion http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/import/shp2osm/ anyone want to give it a go? I used shp2osm.pl to convert: http://eci.nic.in/GisLayers/GIS_PC_Data.zip http://eci.nic.in/GisLayers/GIS_AC_Data.zip shp2osm.pl has a GK option and I was not sure what it does, so I produced osm files with and without it. The files load fine in JOSM. The output osm files are here: http://raja.jst-in.com/tmp/osm/PC_Data_States.zip http://raja.jst-in.com/tmp/osm/PC_Data_States_gk.zip http://raja.jst-in.com/tmp/osm/AC_Data_States.zip http://raja.jst-in.com/tmp/osm/AC_Data_States_gk.zip Nothing has been uploaded to OSM. Feel free to upload if you see fit. - Raja ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
