Re: [OSM-talk] user rankings
We naturally already have fairly extensive user rankings, see odbl.de. While the numbers there have become essentially useless over time for the whole relicensing complex, they are very nice current user rankings, and because of the way the numbers are determined, force you to continue to be active to hold your rank. And we have already seen users complain about not getting enough points for activity X. Simon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] user rankings
Simon Poole writes: We naturally already have fairly extensive user rankings, see odbl.de. This is a ranking which counts who was the last one touching an object. As Maurizio already pointed out this is not too meaningful as it says nothing about the quality of edits. If I want to have a higher rank I simply select some big polygon and move it a few centimeters. Or write a script that inserts a new node in the middle of existing nodes of a way. You push up your rank without creating more value. So taking into account other metrics to calculate the merit sounds reasonable. Actually going outside to add street names is with the current metric less valuable than armchair mapping roads from bing. Merit has to take into account the time effort donated to OSM in some way. Stephan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] user rankings
I think this user ranking principle / ranking discussion is very unhealthy. OSM is not a game with points for every node we shoot ! Common, become an adult and map to give to the world and have a good time yourself. And if you go outside with your GPS you have a free workout too. Gert -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Stephan Knauss [mailto:o...@stephans-server.de] Verzonden: Thursday, September 08, 2011 10:32 AM Aan: Simon Poole CC: talk@openstreetmap.org Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] user rankings Simon Poole writes: > We naturally already have fairly extensive user rankings, see odbl.de. This is a ranking which counts who was the last one touching an object. As Maurizio already pointed out this is not too meaningful as it says nothing about the quality of edits. If I want to have a higher rank I simply select some big polygon and move it a few centimeters. Or write a script that inserts a new node in the middle of existing nodes of a way. You push up your rank without creating more value. So taking into account other metrics to calculate the merit sounds reasonable. Actually going outside to add street names is with the current metric less valuable than armchair mapping roads from bing. Merit has to take into account the time effort donated to OSM in some way. Stephan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] user rankings
I don't think I even remotely implied that the ranking on odbl.de was fair, just simply that it exists and is in use. And. naturally any "fair" ranking should take in to account the time spent creating and editing web pages, answering questions (irc and help) and many other things Simon Am 08.09.2011 10:32, schrieb Stephan Knauss: Simon Poole writes: We naturally already have fairly extensive user rankings, see odbl.de. This is a ranking which counts who was the last one touching an object. As Maurizio already pointed out this is not too meaningful as it says nothing about the quality of edits. If I want to have a higher rank I simply select some big polygon and move it a few centimeters. Or write a script that inserts a new node in the middle of existing nodes of a way. You push up your rank without creating more value. So taking into account other metrics to calculate the merit sounds reasonable. Actually going outside to add street names is with the current metric less valuable than armchair mapping roads from bing. Merit has to take into account the time effort donated to OSM in some way. Stephan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] twitter handling
Hi, On 09/08/11 01:20, SteveC wrote: There are a bunch of people asking things on twitter about OSM that we miss. I don't think that we should encourage that. Call me old-fashioned but to me this is as if you were saying: "There's a lot of people asking things in pubs about OSM that we miss. I'm looking for a solution." The solution is getting people to ask the questions they have not in the pub but on the lists, in the forums, on IRC, or on help.osm.org, instead of spreading our limited capacities even thinner. Or people saying nice things that we should be retweeting. Why should we? "RT JoeRandomStudent: OSM rulez" - I don't see how this should do anything but waste time. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] user rankings
Hi, On 09/08/11 09:42, Simon Poole wrote: We naturally already have fairly extensive user rankings, see odbl.de. Or http://www.openstreetmap.org/stats/data_stats.html which has been around as long as I can think. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] user rankings
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Or http://www.openstreetmap.org/stats/data_stats.html which has been around > as long as I can think. But this page only shows objects creation. Someone fixing a wrong highway classification and/or adding a street name is not appearing on this page ... Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] user rankings
Simon Poole wrote: > And. naturally any "fair" ranking should take in to account the time > spent creating and > editing web pages, answering questions (irc and help) and many other > things It should also include real-world communications and advertising the project. A mapper who manages to convince a friend to join does a great service to OSM. In all the rankings, though, the effect will be detrimental for the user: The friend (if active in the same area) will touch objects created by the original mapper, and will fill white spots that the original mapper could have used to boost his object creation counts. Instead of rankings for individual contributors, I prefer attempts to measure progress towards meaningful goals. A "completion" statistic for road names, for example, does encourage mappers to work towards the goal, but at the same time _encourages cooperation_. That's a far better message to send to mappers: * Results count, not the number of nodes you moved to get there. * Cooperation lets you reach your goals faster. -- Tobias Knerr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] user rankings
Hi Gert, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen writes: I think this user ranking principle / ranking discussion is very unhealthy. Are you saying that the discussion itself is unhealthy or the idea of rankings is unhealthy? While I could agree that rankings can cause harm I believe that discussing things is a good way of working together in a community. OSM is not a game with points for every node we shoot ! We're shooting only non CT compliant node (SCNR ;) Stephan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] twitter handling
On 9/8/2011 4:40 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 09/08/11 01:20, SteveC wrote: There are a bunch of people asking things on twitter about OSM that we miss. I don't think that we should encourage that. Call me old-fashioned but to me this is as if you were saying: "There's a lot of people asking things in pubs about OSM that we miss. I'm looking for a solution." The solution is getting people to ask the questions they have not in the pub but on the lists, in the forums, on IRC, or on help.osm.org, instead of spreading our limited capacities even thinner. To the twitterheads, Twitter is "the Internet". They won't go poking around, looking for which of the 4 or more help media (all of which require a signup sequence) to post a question. Perhaps we're saying the same thing we say about Facebook logins: if you're a twitterhead, we don't want you. Or people saying nice things that we should be retweeting. Why should we? "RT JoeRandomStudent: OSM rulez" - I don't see how this should do anything but waste time. Retweeting can be automated by keywords in your twitter client, and doesn't have to waste time. Normally retweeting would highlight Twitter trending topics, but I'll admit that the number involved in OSM is so low it wouldn't trigger any Twitter trending topics. But I still can't resist retweeting to this list: "RT JoeRandomStudent: #OSM rulez" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] user rankings
There's no automated user ranking system I can think of that will distinguish http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:West_Harrisburg.jpg from valid mapping. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] twitter handling
SteveC schrieb: I'm looking for a solution. Mozilla has this: http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/army-of-awesome and I'm in touch with them to see if the src is available. The code is available for sure, and AFAIK with a permissive license (BSD or such). I connected Steve with the person at Mozilla responsible for that feature, he'll surely send a pointer to where the code is. :) Robert Kaiser ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] twitter handling
2011/9/8 Mike N : > Retweeting can be automated by keywords in your twitter client, and doesn't > have to waste time. well, would waste the time of who reads it ;-) Actually not all #osm tweets seem to be related to Openstreetmap, at least currently there is a lot about a concert hall: "Someone convince me: Why is it worthwhile to attend a concert at the new #OSM? Give me your top three reasons." etc. http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23OSM RT JoeRandomStudent: #OSM rulez cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] user rankings
2011/9/8 Simon Poole : > We naturally already have fairly extensive user rankings, see odbl.de. I guess most of these lists are headed by importers, so I don't see much value in them. Mapping effort is very hard to measure and lists about object creation tend to put the armchair mappers in advantage while JoeMountainMapper who walks hours in difficult terrain to get 4 ways into OSM is under-representated. It would be possible to take the tags into account that a mapper uses to see if this is on the ground truth or remote mapping (see the SOTM-eu talk by Maurizio Napoletano for a selection of useful tags for this). Another idea would be to see how isolated / covered the area of an edit is, and you could give more credit to pioneer mappers or mappers in remote regions. On the other hand every contribution is (at least potentially ;-) ) valuable so IMHO this whole discussion is counterproductive. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] twitter handling
I don't think you're part of the twitter generation then Fred :-) It turns out a lot of people use it, and Facebook, and there will be more. To ignore them is silly. Steve stevecoast.com On Sep 8, 2011, at 1:40, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > On 09/08/11 01:20, SteveC wrote: >> There are a bunch of people asking things on twitter about OSM that we >> miss. > > I don't think that we should encourage that. Call me old-fashioned but to me > this is as if you were saying: "There's a lot of people asking things in pubs > about OSM that we miss. I'm looking for a solution." > > The solution is getting people to ask the questions they have not in the pub > but on the lists, in the forums, on IRC, or on help.osm.org, instead of > spreading our limited capacities even thinner. > >> Or people saying nice things that we should be retweeting. > > Why should we? "RT JoeRandomStudent: OSM rulez" - I don't see how this > should do anything but waste time. > > Bye > Frederik > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] twitter handling
On 08/09/2011 00:20, SteveC wrote: There are a bunch of people asking things on twitter about OSM that we miss. Or people saying nice things that we should be retweeting. I'm looking for a solution. Mozilla has this: http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/army-of-awesome and I'm in touch with them to see if the src is available. I have a saved openstreetmap twitter search and keep an eye on it. I think only twice I've actually replied to people looking for help on opensteetmap most of it's people talking about osm or various bots. Have I missed something here? Although I can't see setting up the mozilla army of awesome doing any harm, although excluding various OSM bots will be needed. Helping people into the community isn't a bad thing; most people won't signup the first time they land on the openstreetmap page, and once they've signed up it may be some time before they edit. One regular at our Edinburgh meetups signed up after seeing a talk I did, but didn't start to edit for 2 years. So, using channels to remind people and about OSM and give them a gentle push in the right direction won't do any harm; and a professional use of twitter is just part of that. The @OpenStreetMap account has over 6000 followers (although a good number are certainly spam) and I would like to see a bit more posting than when there is a blog posting and the occasional retweet. So interesting press coverage or uses of OSM, etc. Cheers Chris -- e: m...@chrisfleming.org w: www.chrisfleming.org -- e: m...@chrisfleming.org w: www.chrisfleming.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] twitter handling
Am Donnerstag, den 08.09.2011, 15:43 +0100 schrieb Chris Fleming: > I have a saved openstreetmap twitter search and keep an eye on it. I > think only twice I've actually replied to people looking for help on > opensteetmap most of it's people talking about osm or various bots. > Similar for me, cause I monitor Twitter for news headlines. > The @OpenStreetMap account has over 6000 followers (although a good > number are certainly spam) and I would like to see a bit more posting > than when there is a blog posting and the occasional retweet. So > interesting press coverage or uses of OSM, etc. Think this should be part of a reinitiate the complete news processing of our community (news at twitter, blogs, diaries, wiki, newsletters,...). bye Matthias (user:!i!) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] twitter handling
Chris * Remote searches aren't guaranteed to be accurate. Therefore you're probably missing posts. I do all the time. * There are lots of search terms, OSM, openstreetmap, #openstreetmap, open streetmap, open street map ... Therefore you're probably missing posts. * Chicken and egg. No OSM answers supplied today - so why would there be lots of questions? Personally I want the OSM attitude to be "that's a fun idea, let's try it". This costs us basically nothing, if it doesn't work we can kill it. With a bit of luck though, it will result in more mapping. Steve On 9/8/2011 8:43 AM, Chris Fleming wrote: On 08/09/2011 00:20, SteveC wrote: There are a bunch of people asking things on twitter about OSM that we miss. Or people saying nice things that we should be retweeting. I'm looking for a solution. Mozilla has this: http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/army-of-awesome and I'm in touch with them to see if the src is available. I have a saved openstreetmap twitter search and keep an eye on it. I think only twice I've actually replied to people looking for help on opensteetmap most of it's people talking about osm or various bots. Have I missed something here? Although I can't see setting up the mozilla army of awesome doing any harm, although excluding various OSM bots will be needed. Helping people into the community isn't a bad thing; most people won't signup the first time they land on the openstreetmap page, and once they've signed up it may be some time before they edit. One regular at our Edinburgh meetups signed up after seeing a talk I did, but didn't start to edit for 2 years. So, using channels to remind people and about OSM and give them a gentle push in the right direction won't do any harm; and a professional use of twitter is just part of that. The @OpenStreetMap account has over 6000 followers (although a good number are certainly spam) and I would like to see a bit more posting than when there is a blog posting and the occasional retweet. So interesting press coverage or uses of OSM, etc. Cheers Chris ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] twitter handling
On 08/09/2011 16:20, SteveC wrote: Chris * Remote searches aren't guaranteed to be accurate. Therefore you're probably missing posts. I do all the time. * There are lots of search terms, OSM, openstreetmap, #openstreetmap, open streetmap, open street map ... Therefore you're probably missing posts. * Chicken and egg. No OSM answers supplied today - so why would there be lots of questions? Personally I want the OSM attitude to be "that's a fun idea, let's try it". This costs us basically nothing, if it doesn't work we can kill it. With a bit of luck though, it will result in more mapping. I didn't mean my comments as criticism, I actually think it's a good thing to setup, so count me in. I'm already vaguely doing this and it seems so are others, so having a more co-ordinated approach is a good thing. Especially if we can filter out stuff. Cheers Chris On 9/8/2011 8:43 AM, Chris Fleming wrote: On 08/09/2011 00:20, SteveC wrote: There are a bunch of people asking things on twitter about OSM that we miss. Or people saying nice things that we should be retweeting. I'm looking for a solution. Mozilla has this: http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/army-of-awesome and I'm in touch with them to see if the src is available. I have a saved openstreetmap twitter search and keep an eye on it. I think only twice I've actually replied to people looking for help on opensteetmap most of it's people talking about osm or various bots. Have I missed something here? Although I can't see setting up the mozilla army of awesome doing any harm, although excluding various OSM bots will be needed. Helping people into the community isn't a bad thing; most people won't signup the first time they land on the openstreetmap page, and once they've signed up it may be some time before they edit. One regular at our Edinburgh meetups signed up after seeing a talk I did, but didn't start to edit for 2 years. So, using channels to remind people and about OSM and give them a gentle push in the right direction won't do any harm; and a professional use of twitter is just part of that. The @OpenStreetMap account has over 6000 followers (although a good number are certainly spam) and I would like to see a bit more posting than when there is a blog posting and the occasional retweet. So interesting press coverage or uses of OSM, etc. Cheers Chris ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- e: m...@chrisfleming.org w: www.chrisfleming.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Has JOSM become clunkier?
I've noticed a similar slowdown, but haven't gotten a chance to see what's causing it. -Josh On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 2:27 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > Since I updated to the last tested version, JOSM has been slower to respond. > For example, after I download from the XAPI relation[network=US:AL] and > download all relation members (this will take a while), zooming to the full > extent (hit 1) takes a few seconds, as does doing anything at this scale. > Even doing normal actions at normal zoom seems to take slightly longer than > it used to. > > The only thing listed in the updates on loading JOSM is "Select and delete > mode now have better visual indication what the next action will do > (highlighting, cursor changes)." This seems like it could cause these > slowdowns, though I can't find a way to disable this feature (which I > honestly don't find useful) to test if it is the cause. > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] twitter handling
> On Sep 8, 2011, at 1:40, Frederik Ramm wrote: >> On 09/08/11 01:20, SteveC wrote: >>> There are a bunch of people asking things on twitter about OSM that we >>> miss. >> >> I don't think that we should encourage that. Call me old-fashioned but to me >> this is as if you were saying: "There's a lot of people asking things in >> pubs about OSM that we miss. I'm looking for a solution." >> >> The solution is getting people to ask the questions they have not in the pub >> but on the lists, in the forums, on IRC, or on help.osm.org, instead of >> spreading our limited capacities even thinner. On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Steve Coast wrote: > I don't think you're part of the twitter generation then Fred :-) > > It turns out a lot of people use it, and Facebook, and there will be more. To > ignore them is silly. I agree, I think it's being out of touch with reality to ignore Twitter and Facebook, whether or not it's the best medium or what you personally think of it. And the comment comparing this to sending people out to pubs is absurd; one is (fairly easily) technically feasible, while the other is highly impractical. We can always point people to relevant ML threads, wiki pages, help questions, etc. -Josh ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] twitter handling
> It turns out a lot of people use it, and Facebook, and there will be more. To > ignore them is silly. > >I agree, I think it's being out of touch with reality to ignore >Twitter and Facebook, whether or not it's the best medium or what you >personally think of it. And the comment comparing this to sending >people out to pubs is absurd; one is (fairly easily) technically >feasible, while the other is highly impractical. We can always point >people to relevant ML threads, wiki pages, help questions, etc. > > +1. The number of people who's first entry to the Internet is Twitter and Facebook is huge. It's a good strategy to respond with links to our core support tools.___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Sister Projects / possible data source
I don't know if I have got this discussion wrong, but I have seen at least two community projects that are trying to build databases of locations of different wireless networks: http://openbmap.org/ and http://opencellid.org/ / Erik [1] http://opencellid.org/ 2011-08-07 23:50, John Smith skrev: On 8 August 2011 07:46, Richard Weait wrote: As I remember it from previous discussions, wifi locations are somewhat transient for OSM. Cell tower locations are likely from government databases are they not? Google etc estimate location of towers by using data handsets expose. Given that this would be a 'complete' dataset from another source, why duplicate (and eventually synchronize) it with OSM, when it should be possible to display them together in a mash up? If there is GPS data involved that might be more useful than the tower estimations etc. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] twitter handling
Hi, On 09/08/2011 05:20 PM, SteveC wrote: * Chicken and egg. No OSM answers supplied today - so why would there be lots of questions? +1 to Mikel: Let's answer questions by pointing people to our existing support infrastructure; not by trying to create another support infrastructure (one of the disadvantages of which is that after a few hours no second person will profit from the answer given because it is not archived). To *encourage* people to use twitter as a support medium would be detrimental. Personally I want the OSM attitude to be "that's a fun idea, let's try it". This costs us basically nothing You're free to answer tweets like anyone else is free to do, and indeed does already. That doesn't cost anything indeed. Setting up a project that bundles peoples' time by enticing them to take part in your fun idea will ONLY cost us nothing if these people were NOT using their time to help OSM before. If, on the other hand, by giving twitter users the impression that they will be personally cared for if they just shout out their problems, you create an atmosphere where experienced OSMers will spend much more time to personally tend to such questions (because participation is drawn away from media like help.osm.org where answers are archived and because new users are not encouraged to search for answers in these well-redacted media), then this does indeed lower the overall quality of service we can provide because our resources are limited. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] twitter handling
On 9/8/2011 11:30 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 09/08/2011 05:20 PM, SteveC wrote: * Chicken and egg. No OSM answers supplied today - so why would there be lots of questions? +1 to Mikel: Let's answer questions by pointing people to our existing support infrastructure; not by trying to create another support infrastructure (one of the disadvantages of which is that after a few hours no second person will profit from the answer given because it is not archived). To *encourage* people to use twitter as a support medium would be detrimental. Personally I want the OSM attitude to be "that's a fun idea, let's try it". This costs us basically nothing You're free to answer tweets like anyone else is free to do, and indeed does already. That doesn't cost anything indeed. Setting up a project that bundles peoples' time by enticing them to take part in your fun idea will ONLY cost us nothing if these people were NOT using their time to help OSM before. If, on the other hand, by giving twitter users the impression that they will be personally cared for if they just shout out their problems, you create an atmosphere where experienced OSMers will spend much more time to personally tend to such questions (because participation is drawn away from media like help.osm.org where answers are archived and because new users are not encouraged to search for answers in these well-redacted media), then this does indeed lower the overall quality of service we can provide because our resources are limited. I suppose it's a sign of the project's maturity that we discuss rather than solve problems. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Roundabouts and routing
Hi, Today I experimented with using OSM maps on my Garmin sat-nav. The one thing that I noticed was that roundabouts do not work well. The problem seems to be the slip roads entering the roundabout. The sat-nav recognises them as a roundabout in themself, and because of that gives some fairly poor directions, for example: • Drive 10 miles then enter roundabout. (Drive 10 miles) • Enter roundabout. (Enter the slip road to the roundabout) • Enter roundabout and take the third exit. As you can see, because of the slip road's existence the GPS does not announce which exit you're expecting to take until the last minute. This means that you can't get in the right lane early enough. Proposed solutions (all of which are horrible): 1) Don't tag sliproads onto roundabouts as junction=roundabout, instead use some other tagging scheme. Not greatly desirable because it involves a *whole* lot of retagging. 2) Ask garmin to fix it (doesn't sound likely). 3) Write some fancy heuristics in the conversion from OSM to routable garmin maps that figure out when you're looking at slip roads and when it's an actual roundabout (sounds unreliable). Can anyone thing of a better solution to this? Bob if (*ra4 != 0xffc78948) { return false; } ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts and routing
On 08/09/11 19:48, Thomas Davie wrote: Hi, Today I experimented with using OSM maps on my Garmin sat-nav. The one thing that I noticed was that roundabouts do not work well. The problem seems to be the slip roads entering the roundabout. The sat-nav recognises them as a roundabout in themself, and because of that gives some fairly poor directions, for example: • Drive 10 miles then enter roundabout. (Drive 10 miles) • Enter roundabout. (Enter the slip road to the roundabout) • Enter roundabout and take the third exit. As you can see, because of the slip road's existence the GPS does not announce which exit you're expecting to take until the last minute. This means that you can't get in the right lane early enough. Proposed solutions (all of which are horrible): 1) Don't tag sliproads onto roundabouts as junction=roundabout, instead use some other tagging scheme. Not greatly desirable because it involves a *whole* lot of retagging. 2) Ask garmin to fix it (doesn't sound likely). 3) Write some fancy heuristics in the conversion from OSM to routable garmin maps that figure out when you're looking at slip roads and when it's an actual roundabout (sounds unreliable). Can anyone thing of a better solution to this? I only tag the roundabout itself with the roundabout tag, that is the closed way which is often circular. The sliproads (technically called flares) are not part of the roundabout and, to me and supported in the wiki, they are not tagged as part of the roundabout. All of the approaches to roundabouts tagged like this seem to work with my Garmin well. Maybe an example of what you find not working might help. FWIW, Garmin do not support OSM's use of their devices so asking Garmin for help is not likely to help at all. -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Who's using the torrents?
Hi, torrents for planet files are available here: http://osm-torrent.torres.voyager.hr/ I'm curious about how this is utilized. Have you ever used the torrents? Do you use them regularly? Do you seed? I've picked the most recent torrents, counting: planet-110907: 1 seeder planet-110831: 5 seeders planet-110824: 3 seeders planet-110817: 0 seeders cheers ant ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts and routing
On 08/09/11 19:48, Thomas Davie wrote: 1) Don't tag sliproads onto roundabouts as junction=roundabout, instead use some other tagging scheme. Not greatly desirable because it involves a *whole* lot of retagging. Well who on earth is doing that? and why? I've certainly never tagged roads entering a roundabout in that way, nor can I see any reason to do so. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts and routing
+1 Steve From: Tom Hughes Sent: 9/8/2011 1:27 PM To: Thomas Davie Cc: OSM Talk Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts and routing On 08/09/11 19:48, Thomas Davie wrote: > 1) Don't tag sliproads onto roundabouts as junction=roundabout, instead > use some other tagging scheme. Not greatly desirable because it involves > a *whole* lot of retagging. Well who on earth is doing that? and why? I've certainly never tagged roads entering a roundabout in that way, nor can I see any reason to do so. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts and routing
On 08/09/2011 20:27, Tom Hughes wrote: On 08/09/11 19:48, Thomas Davie wrote: 1) Don't tag sliproads onto roundabouts as junction=roundabout, instead use some other tagging scheme. Not greatly desirable because it involves a *whole* lot of retagging. Well who on earth is doing that? and why? I've certainly never tagged roads entering a roundabout in that way, nor can I see any reason to do so. In areas where it has been important for me (where I've been producing a high quality paper map), I have tagged these as junction=approach. The reason I needed such a tag was to avoid one way arrows cluttering up the map on those little Y-shaped approaches to roundabouts; there isn't any easy way to tell the difference from a genuinely one way street otherwise, but one way markers on these short, often invisible roads (invisible because at map scale, they tend to merge together when widths are exaggerated). The problem is exacerbated because many of these were done as a single one way which comes off the roundabout and then turns almost 180 deg. and rejoins roundabout. Example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/4565106 BTW, I don't consider this is "tagging for the renderer" at all. It is identify a particular kind of feature that is not otherwise easy or possible to identify without specific tagging. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] twitter handling
On 08/09/2011 16:16, Matthias Meisser wrote: The @OpenStreetMap account has over 6000 followers (although a good number are certainly spam) and I would like to see a bit more posting than when there is a blog posting and the occasional retweet. So interesting press coverage or uses of OSM, etc. Think this should be part of a reinitiate the complete news processing of our community (news at twitter, blogs, diaries, wiki, newsletters,...). @osmblogs tweets all the postings made to http://blogs.openstreetmap.org/ if that's what you want. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Who's using the torrents?
* ant [2011-09-08 21:13 +0200]: > I'm curious about how this is utilized. Have you ever used the > torrents? Do you use them regularly? Do you seed? I use them regularly. I use the RSS feed to auto-download the torrent files and then seed them until the next week's files are out. It's kind of convenient to always have a recent planet file on hand, even though my main use of the data is via a minutely-updated PostGIS database. I'd be really happy if there were torrents for the PBF files, too; they're a lot faster for me to process. -- ...computer contrarian of the first order... / http://aperiodic.net/phil/ PGP: 026A27F2 print: D200 5BDB FC4B B24A 9248 9F7A 4322 2D22 026A 27F2 --- -- echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln256%Pln256/snlbx]sb3135071790101768542287578439snlbxq'|dc --- -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] user rankings
On 08.09.2011 12:54, Tobias Knerr wrote: Instead of rankings for individual contributors, I prefer attempts to measure progress towards meaningful goals. A "completion" statistic for road names, for example, does encourage mappers to work towards the goal, but at the same time _encourages cooperation_. I like this idea. Do you already think about some metrics? I know the "Straßenliste" in Germany where street names are checked for completeness. Or the matrix that was used for the aerial mapping in the Oberpfalz. Are there building blocks available to create custom statistics? For the reports.osm-tools.org I had started something like this. The reports are stored in a database, a front-end presents the results in a unified form. I did not proceed with it as there are had not been enough mappers to proceed with the bilingual naming. Too many foreigners mapping. On the yearly graph you can still see the times we worked on the issue. A webpage could host multiple custom statistics and present a nice graphical representation. Stephan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts and routing
Thomas Davie wrote: Proposed solutions (all of which are horrible): 1) Don't tag sliproads onto roundabouts as junction=roundabout, instead use some other tagging scheme. Not greatly desirable because it involves a *whole* lot of retagging. 2) Ask garmin to fix it (doesn't sound likely). 3) Write some fancy heuristics in the conversion from OSM to routable garmin maps that figure out when you're looking at slip roads and when it's an actual roundabout (sounds unreliable). Would it be possible to include a link to an example roundabout in OSM? Within the UK there seems to be a variety of tagging approaches, everything from not tagging flares to tagging individual roundabout lanes. I'm guessing that you're using an mkgmap-generated map, in which case there are options that alter roundabout handling (including the delightfully named "--frig-roundabouts"). The problem that usually gets me is miscounting exits (when two exits' adjacent flares share the same node), but late announcment of exit number can also be annoying. By the way, if you are using mkgmap then you might want to have a look on http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev - that's where most mkgmap discussion takes place. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Pre SOTM gathering
Are there any pre-SOTM gatherings going on this evening? Or failing that can anybody recommend a brewery to get one going at? Cheers, Greg ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Pre SOTM gathering
blake street sports/dive bar for the NFL is where many are headed On 9/8/2011 3:40 PM, Gregory Arenius wrote: Are there any pre-SOTM gatherings going on this evening? Or failing that can anybody recommend a brewery to get one going at? Cheers, Greg ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Pre SOTM gathering
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Gregory Arenius wrote: > Are there any pre-SOTM gatherings going on this evening? Or failing that > can anybody recommend a brewery to get one going at? what I've heard is: >From 6pm Blake Street Tavern http://osm.org/go/T2JibxIG?m ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts and routing
On 9/8/2011 3:45 PM, David Earl wrote: The problem is exacerbated because many of these were done as a single one way which comes off the roundabout and then turns almost 180 deg. and rejoins roundabout. Example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/4565106 This is certainly no good, since it implies that making that U-turn is staying on the same road. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Goverments releasing data under PDDL
Is anyone aware of a list of governments which are releasing datasets under the PDDL? So far I am aware of Surrey, BC (http://www.surrey.ca/city-services/658.aspx) Township of Langley, BC (http://www.tol.ca/ServicesContact/OpenData.aspx) City of Winnipeg, MB (http://api.winnipegtransit.com/) I am particularly interested in any Canadian provincial governments releasing data under this license. I am planning on writing a letter to DataBC, a provincial government open data initiative, suggesting they use PDDL as a widely accepted license that accomplishes their intentions in licensing. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk