date:20181212

2018-12-12, tr 19:18 Richard Fairhurst rašė:

> Tomas Straupis wrote:
> > Ad absurdum argument: can you invent your own street name or even
> > placename and expect post, police, ambulance, firefighters, taxi to
> > arrive (on time or at all)?
>
> Sure, in the UK, you could do that and I know people who have done so. If
> you invent a street name here in Charlbury and then post a letter to it,
> Carla the post-lady will ask around until she finds out where the street is
> (or until she sees the sign you've erected), and then she'll deliver you
> the
> letter. A working postcode will speed the process up but isn't absolutely
> necessary.
>

Cool. We live in a stone age down here in Lithuania. I cannot ask pizza guy
to deliver me beer to Ipaville, Humulupulus street number "-42 babalas".
(For some Afrikaans taste)

And still... this proves my point of multiple non agreeable subjective
opinions with inconsistent final result and extremely unnecessary hard
means of collecting information. In environment, where absolute majority of
info about non physical objects is collected by using official documents...

Say this, do that...

>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

2018-12-12 Thread Kathleen Lu

I would not be surprised if this was more of a rural/urban divide than a
country divide. I cannot imagine that I could put a name on my house and
then address a letter to that new name and city and ever expect it to get
there. (I have a hard time imagining this would work in Berlin or London
either, but if you have tested it then I would believe you.) But if I lived
in a town of 1000 people, yeah, I'd believe they'd figure it out, and over
time just accept the name of the house even though it's not in any official
record, since there are still towns in the US where most buildings don't
have street addresses.
Best,
Kathleen

On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 9:17 AM Richard Fairhurst 
wrote:

> Tomas Straupis wrote:
> > Ad absurdum argument: can you invent your own street name or even
> > placename and expect post, police, ambulance, firefighters, taxi to
> > arrive (on time or at all)?
>
> Sure, in the UK, you could do that and I know people who have done so. If
> you invent a street name here in Charlbury and then post a letter to it,
> Carla the post-lady will ask around until she finds out where the street is
> (or until she sees the sign you've erected), and then she'll deliver you
> the
> letter. A working postcode will speed the process up but isn't absolutely
> necessary.
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/General-Discussion-f5171242.html
>
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Re: [Talk-hr] Renderiranje je zapelo?

2018-12-12 Thread hbogner


On 10. 12. 2018. 18:55, Matija Nalis wrote:


On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 03:47:14PM +, Ivan Delac wrote:

hbogner napisa:

Tile cache serveri(21 server, većina u EU) su poveznica između korisnika
i render servera. Ti otvoriš OSM kartu, te si ovisno o svojoj lokaciji
preusmjeren na najbliži tile cache server


Može li se nekako ručno odabrati tile server, možda svaki ima neki poseban
URL? Ne znam je li svima tako ali meni se prečesto događa da je učitavanje
toliko sporo da nakraju odustanem od OSM-a i otvorim Google kartu.


Meni radi uredno, mozda lokalno neki problem kod tebe na mrezi ili u
lokalnom firewallu? Mozes rucno forsirati IP adresu za imena tile
servera, ali nije preporucljivo, bolje je otkloniti uzrok problema...

Probaj u Firefoxu ili Chromeu stisnuti "F12" pa otici na "Network"
tab i onda otvoriti/reloadati stranicu - tamo bi ti trebalo pisati tocno
koji requestovi koliko traju.

Ako onda kliknes desni klik na nekon od njih i odaberes "Save all as HAR"
pa ako hoces mozes poslati meni taj .har file pa pogledam sto je...

Na servere se spaja preko geodns-a, ovisno o državi iz koje surfaš ovisi 
na koji server se spajaš. Viserion je tile cache server za RH i okolicu. 
Trenutno je na 100mega linku, gigabitni switch je crkao i čeka se novi, 
a do onda se koristi ovaj od 100mega.


I ja sam uočio probleme sa sporijim učitavanjem, te sam skužio da s 
mreža zakucava na 100mega, prijavio sam to i limit na serveru je 
promjenjen tako da se sad manje država spaja na njega, te je nakon toga 
učitavanje sa 5 sekundi palo na ispod 1 sekunde.


Moguće da se to još manifestira, provjeri ovo što je Matija rekao pa javi.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

2018-12-12 Thread Richard Fairhurst

Tomas Straupis wrote:
> Ad absurdum argument: can you invent your own street name or even 
> placename and expect post, police, ambulance, firefighters, taxi to 
> arrive (on time or at all)?

Sure, in the UK, you could do that and I know people who have done so. If
you invent a street name here in Charlbury and then post a letter to it,
Carla the post-lady will ask around until she finds out where the street is
(or until she sees the sign you've erected), and then she'll deliver you the
letter. A working postcode will speed the process up but isn't absolutely
necessary.

Richard

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Re: [Talk-cz] Bylo: WeeklyOSM CZ 437 - bazény

2018-12-12 Thread Pavel Machek

Ahoj!

> Tak mě napadlo…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leisure(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Key:leisure)=swimming_pool
> aka "plavecký" bazén. To mi neříkejte, že se v bazénku o průměru 3 metry dá
> plavat. Maximálně se trochu svlažit. Navrhuji tyhle neplavecké

No, od toho je tam cerpadlo ktery vyrabi protiproud :-).

Pavel

-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) 
http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html


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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

Ad absurdum argument: can you invent your own street name or even placename
and expect post, police, ambulance, firefighters, taxi to arrive (on time
or at all)?

Thank you for example anyway, I would have never ever believed such a thing
could be true in GERMANY. (No sarcasm) in post soviet countries like
Lithuania still cleaning the sh - maybe, but not Germany.

We're banging heads of officials when we find address of place X outside of
X admin limits. And only OSM can identify that and thus improve official
data.
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Re: [Talk-cz] Bylo: WeeklyOSM CZ 437 - bazény

2018-12-12 Thread Mikoláš Štrajt

Tak ta asociace bazénů s vysycháním krajiny je spíše volná...

V době kdy bývá turbosucho (léto) a je vydán zákaz napouštění bazénů je už
totiž většina bazénů dávno napuštěná.

* * *

Každopádně já jsem si to pro svoje účely už stáhnul, takže to můžete směle
vykydat z OSM.

Severák

-- Původní e-mail --
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Komu: talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
Datum: 12. 12. 2018 14:41:17
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Bylo: WeeklyOSM CZ 437 - bazény
"

On Wed, 12 Dec 2018 at 14:01, Tom Ka mailto:tomas.kaspa...@gmail.com)> wrote:

"
ono je u techto dat otazka, jak moc odpovidaji realite, to je pro mne
jeden z hlavnich duvodu, proc je lepsi to smazat. tohle asi nikdy
nikdo rozumne nezkontroluje (v tom mnozstvi).
"

Rodiče taky jeden podobný bazén v zahradě mají. Je nezmapovaný, stejně jako
nejsou zmapované záhony a ten kousek trávníku, co tam je u toho. A netuším,
jak jinak by šel zmapovat, než někým z rodiny, jejich bezprostředními
sousedy nebo z letecké mapy typu mapy.cz(http://mapy.cz) nebo ortofoto CUZK.
Protože vidět na něj jinak není. A předpokládám, že se to bude týkat i
většiny těchhle bazénů. Protože s výjimkou zmíněných čerstvě postavených
"paneláků naležato", kde případné živé ploty a podobně ještě nestihly
vyrůst, se všichni budou snažit, aby jim nikdo nekoukal do zahrady na místo,
kde mají něco takového...

Navíc opravdu nejsem přesvědčená, že jsou všichni rádi, že je jejich bazén
(ek) vidět i v normální mapě, nejen na leteckých snímcích, kde se s tím musí
počítat, resp. nedá se s tím nic dělat. Pro orientaci je užitečnost něčeho
takového většinou skrytého více než pochybná. A i ohledně informace k
vysychání krajiny o užitku dost pochybuji - protože to, že se bazén na jaře
napustí, a na podzim obsahem zaleje záhony, bude mít celkově menší efekt než
ty různé sudy a nádrže na zachytávání dešťové vody, případně vlastní studny,
které do mapy nikdo nedává.

Majka

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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

Germany is not the "whole world". If you have multiple datasets for
addresses then you have to decide, and physical check could be the solution
for your country because of registry collision, whatever German community
decides.

In Lithuania there is one and only one official source for ANY official
dataset. Process, owner and access is approved by law.

With all due respect to Germany and ordnung, why a country with strict and
not conflicting data should be bound to vague solution because of some
other country which does not have such a solution?
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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 03:05:06PM +0200, Tomas Straupis wrote:
> Discussions about mapping invented addresses shows exactly what I
> wanted to say: we get drowned in endless pointless
> counter-counter-examples of counter-examples. Rules would have to be
> invented for addresses separately, and then separately for each
> country or even more detailed. We once again get to the same old
> example of reflections/shadows in the end of the cave.

I think you are down the wrong path. There is no such thing as
an invented address.

Either it is an address somebody with enough knowledge of the addressing
scheme is able to find or not.

In the western hemisphere we have had addressing for like ages and we
have regulations which make the state and their bodys the source 
of the official addresses. Nevertheless it is pretty common even in 
Germany to put up a 10a 10b 10c on your shed, barn or garage. These
addresses while not been issued by an official body end up in all the
other address sets. You will even be able to get them into your national
id card because the "Meldewesen" (State body for registering residents) 
is not linked to the "Katasteramt" (Geo body on the county level
issueing addresses). I know that because i have caused ~100 residents to
get new id cards because they all had a wrong street name in their ID.

I have been working for some years with addresses from Deutsche Telekom
and they differ from the state issued addresses by approx. ~5%. Telekom
itself "invents" addresses for difficult to describe locations etc,
lists your barn as 10b etc. They do so because there might be no
official address, residents describe the location with that address, or
they simply need to describe the location they put up a connection.

So there is no such thing as an invented address. An address is
something people will be able to find with knowledge about the
addresses scheme.

At least in Germany we might have 95% of the addresses beeing officially
issued but the other 5% of addresses in use are unknown to the
"Katasteramt" because people use the addressing scheme to put up new
Housenumbers whenever they see fit.

You will not find 2 address datasets without a significant difference.

The question now is - What is Openstreetmap? Are we a copy of one of the
datasets? Of which one? Are we trying to merge datasets? Are we having
rules what to add?

At least in some German "Bundesländer" we have had access to state
issued address information and we used it to add a signifikant amount of
addresses into OSM. Then we added stuff we observed on the ground which
we did not initially get from the "Landesvermessungsamt". 

Do we now have a better or worse dataset? 

IMHO we have a much better dataset because we are able to geocode stuff
people expect to be addressable which official bodys cant
address/geocode.

Official address datasets are as incomplete, broken, buggy as all other
datasets. There is no such thing as the one and only truth.

Flo
-- 
Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
UTF-8 Test: The  ran after a , but the  ran away

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Re: [Talk-cz] Bylo: WeeklyOSM CZ 437 - bazény

2018-12-12 Thread r00t

Zdravim,

Opravdu nevidim duvod pro mapovani soukromych bazenu co ma nekdo na zahrade,
zvlast pokud jde o nejake male prenosne, co tam jsou treba jenom jedno leto.
Cokoliv mensiho nez nejakych 10x5m co mapoval fell3 bych proste smazal.
Protoze jina alternativa je ze by to musel nekdo udrzovat aktualni, pochybuju
ze vetsina bazenu tam opet bude az bude k dispozici nova ortofotomapa.
Nazor fell3 ze je to pro hasice aby vedeli kde brat vodu je myslim uplna
vymluva: Pokud neco takoveho hasici opravdu potrebuji, maji k tomu
jine zdroje nez OSM a nekoho kdo tu databazi udrzuje aktualni atd.
Mapovani soukromych bazenu na zahradach je asi tak uzitecne jako mapovani
jednotlivych stromu nebo treba lavicek na soukromych zahradach.

r00t


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[Talk-gb-london] Xmas Pub meet-up tomorrow (Thu)

2018-12-12 Thread Harry Wood

Tomorrow night (Thu 13th Dec) we're having a little Christmas London pub 
meet-up at Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese pub from 6:30pm. Join us for some friendly 
social beers and a festive celebration of all things OpenStreetMap!
Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese is down an alleyway off Fleet Street (here on the map 
https://osm.org/go/euu4pXrPS?m= ). Between Chancery Lane. St Paul's & 
Blackfriars. We will be downstairs, possibly deep downstairs. This pub has more 
seating the deeper down you go, so chances are we may be level=-3!

Whether you're a mapper, map user, or just curious, come join us! If you think 
you may have trouble recognising anyone, turn up at 7pm (when the group will be 
more assembled), and look out for maps or OpenStreetMap hi-viz vests or polo 
shirts. 

Sign-up on eventbrite if you like: 
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/openstreetmap-xmas-pub-meet-up-tickets-53539300489
It'll probably be quite a small event. We expect somewhere between 5 and 15 
people. I've set the ticket limit to 50, so yeah. Limited capacity! don't 
delay! :-)

As ever, events like this are listed here:  https://wiki.osm.org/London and 
tweeted about on https://twitter.com/OSMLondon
Harry
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[OSM-talk] What is OSM for? (was: Re: Ground truth for non-physical objects)

2018-12-12 Thread Andy Townsend


On 12/12/2018 13:05, Tomas Straupis wrote:

... I do not imagine how would it be possible to
capture all that "on the ground" without an army of mappers devoted
specifically to this very boring and uninteresting but useful class -
addresses.


If you're looking for a project that essentially mirrors "official" data 
without actually checking that its valid then OpenStreetMap might not be 
the project for you.


What makes OSM unque and better than the alternatives is that the data 
in it is, where possible, verified by people on the ground.  In a sense 
it's the "anti-wikipedia" - original research is not just allowed it's 
positively encouraged.  Only this original research will catch corner 
cases like the house that has a name (but that name isn't in any way 
"official") that still gets mail delivered to it using that name (like 
the house that I'm sat in right now, actually).


Obviously different OSM communities in different regions differ over how 
much they want to rely on "official" data* - indeed some different 
regions within the same country have argued about this in the past, but 
the general view, which I think we can see from the balance of the posts 
in this thread, is that most people back the "on the ground" principle - 
if there's a housename that looks like looks like a house name, it's a 
house name, even if it's not in an "official" list.


Best Regards,

Andy

* for the avoidance of doubt here I'm talking about "official data" 
outside of any conflict or dispute.


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Re: [Talk-it] Your experience with Wikimedia Italia being a local OSMF chapter

2018-12-12 Thread Edoardo Yossef Marascalchi

Hi Michal,
my 2 cents:

Wikimedia became an OSM Chapter on mappers members request.
To become chapter mapper members were requested to raise their hand and
identify themself as OSM contributors.
As far as I can remember more than 30 members were OSM contributor as well
and more OSM contributors became members afterwards.

WMI is well involved in promoting OSM both at schools/universities, funds
hackatons, conferences and mapping parties.

In the last 2 years coordinators position were opened at national and
regional levels about different area of interests (GLAM, Universities, Wiki
Love Monuments and OSM). Not all region got covered but where the
coordinator has been present many activities has taken place.

WMI organized the 2017 State of The Map conference in Milan.

While at the beginning we discussed about level of independence between the
two "area of interest", by the end of the day both Wiki* and OSM are well
interconnected and it's quite common to mix the topics when presenting the
projects to the wide audience.

IMHO, having been one of the original proposer of WMI as OSM Chapter, the
coexistence is natural and as far as there isn't attrition between the
groups, will be a successfull integration in Poland as well.

Just as background, we (me and fellow OSM mappers from the very beginning)
had a lot of discussion about asking WMI or GFOSS.it to become Chapter.
GFOSS was the more logical choice as made of GIS professionals, but WMI
looke more "active" and "alive" and more aligned to the Open Knowledge side
while GFOSS was more leaning on the Free and open source software topic.

Edo

On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 1:34 PM Michał Brzozowski 
wrote:

> Hi to all Italian mappers,
>
> The Polish OpenStreetMap Association is on the verge of dissolution due to
> lack of enough people at the last annual general meeting to run for the
> board and the revision commission.
>
> Depending on what the next general meeting will vote for in the January
> and what the attendance will be, one of the likely outcomes is dissolution
> and transfer of the assets (web domain and funds) to Wikimedia Polska.
>
> As Wikimedia Italia is a local chapter of the OSMF, I'd like to ask you a
> few things that hopefully will inform the discussion of our Polish
> community and if the dissolution-transfer occurs, could give WMPL an idea
> what to go with or improve on.
>
> - How many members of WMIT are actively interested in OSM or joined
> because of OSM?
>
> - What part of expenses is related to OSM?
>
> - What types of OSM-related activities does the WMIT organize, finance or
> promote? E.g. do you organize conferences, smaller meetings (like mapping
> parties), distribute promotional material, run servers (for maps, QA) and
> so on?
>
> - Is there demand among companies and government institutions to have some
> tangible entity they can talk to about OSM? (In Poland certainly there is.)
>
> - How do the members interested in OSM organize within WMIT? What is the
> level of autonomy if any or necessary at all?
>
> - Do you form strategic or one-off partnerships related to OSM with
> outside entities?
>
> NB: to be clear, I am not writing this in official capacity.
>
> Greetings,
> Michał Brzozowski
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/RicoElectrico
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-- 
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skype: asca_edom
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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

Discussions about mapping invented addresses shows exactly what I
wanted to say: we get drowned in endless pointless
counter-counter-examples of counter-examples. Rules would have to be
invented for addresses separately, and then separately for each
country or even more detailed. We once again get to the same old
example of reflections/shadows in the end of the cave.

Vilnius is not a large city, with 0,5M population it has only ~60K
addresses. Still EACH week ~50-100 addresses change (changes,
additions, deletions). I do not imagine how would it be possible to
capture all that "on the ground" without an army of mappers devoted
specifically to this very boring and uninteresting but useful class -
addresses.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but regions (larger than 1 square km) with
best (accurate and up to date) address coverage are the ones which use
official address registries.

P.S. I agree that when there is no open official source, physical
observation is the only thing we have.

-- 
Tomas

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Re: [Talk-cz] Bylo: WeeklyOSM CZ 437 - bazény

2018-12-12 Thread Tom Ka

st 12. 12. 2018 v 13:57 odesílatel Mikoláš Štrajt  napsal:
> 3m je IMHO ta minimální velikost bazénu, kde se ještě pár temp dá udělat. :-)
> Byl jsem kdysi na návštěvě u jedné kamarádky a ta zahajovala den tím, že si 
> dala pár temp právě v bazénu, který mohl mít tak 3m v průměru...

pozor, mluvi se o delce obvodu, neprumeru. Takze pro bazen o prumeru
3m je to nejakych 9,5m.

> Každopádně - Fellova mapovací aktivita mě tehdy (když se o tom psalo prvně) 
> přinutila se mrknout do mapy na Zbraslav (kde to jednak znám a jednak je tam 
> kvalitní ortofoto) a byl jsem překvapen, jak moc je tam bazénů.

ono je u techto dat otazka, jak moc odpovidaji realite, to je pro mne
jeden z hlavnich duvodu, proc je lepsi to smazat. tohle asi nikdy
nikdo rozumne nezkontroluje (v tom mnozstvi).

Bye

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Re: [Talk-cz] Bylo: WeeklyOSM CZ 437 - bazény

2018-12-12 Thread Mikoláš Štrajt


Ahoj,




3m je IMHO ta minimální velikost bazénu, kde se ještě pár temp dá udělat. :-
)




Byl jsem kdysi na návštěvě u jedné kamarádky a ta zahajovala den tím, že si
dala pár temp právě v bazénu, který mohl mít tak 3m v průměru...





* * *




Každopádně - Fellova mapovací aktivita mě tehdy (když se o tom psalo prvně)
přinutila se mrknout do mapy na Zbraslav (kde to jednak znám a jednak je tam
kvalitní ortofoto) a byl jsem překvapen, jak moc je tam bazénů.




Vzhledem k tomu, že se zajímám o vysychání krajiny (mimo jiné protože to mám
možnost sledovat na dovolených v Českém krasu) tak mě ta samotná statistika
počtu bazénů přijde zajímavá.  Asi si ta Fellova data stáhnu, třeba je pak
nějak využiju.





--


Severák



-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Marián Kyral 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 12. 12. 2018 13:08:39
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Bylo: WeeklyOSM CZ 437 - bazény
"
Tak mě napadlo…




leisure(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Key:leisure)=swimming_pool
aka "plavecký" bazén. To mi neříkejte, že se v bazénku o průměru 3 metry dá
plavat. Maximálně se trochu svlažit. Navrhuji tyhle neplavecké bazény
přetagovat na něco jiného. Třeba leisure=garden_pool nebo leisure=pool (287x
na taginfo) nebo  landuse=reservoir, reservoir=leisure (pool).

Marián

-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Majka 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 12. 12. 2018 7:52:37
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Bylo: WeeklyOSM CZ 437 - bazény
"Dobře, mazat se nebude.

Ale je Vám všem jasné, že to označení jako soukromé patří na všechny ty
zahradní bazény?

Ne že by přes nějakých 95% nezmapoval fell3...

12. prosince 2018 6:48:39 SEČ, "Karel Volný"  napsal:
>čest práci,
>

>
>maje nějakou nenulovou zkušenost s "paneláky naležato" a se
>zahrádkářskými
>koloniemi, řekl bych, že 3 m průměru jsou dosti - takové bazény si lidi
>
>obvykle nepřemísťují, naopak spíše časem zčásti zakopou do země
>
>sezonní brouzdaliště pro úplnou drobotinu má průměr tak max 1,5 m
>
>každopádně souhlasím s Pavlem, omezme to navíc dle autora, neničme
>práci
>někomu, kdo se o svoji zahrádku stará i virtuálně a modeluje si jí v
>mapě :-)
>
>K.

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Re: [Talk-it] importare dati osm su database

2018-12-12 Thread Andy Townsend


On 12/12/2018 12:35, Maurizio Napolitano wrote:

parti da qui
https://switch2osm.org/manually-building-a-tile-server-18-04-lts/
poi, per gli uggiornamenti invece basta usare le giuste opzioni di
osm2pgsql scaricando gli aggiornamenti da planet.openstreetmap.org
https://github.com/openstreetmap/osm2pgsql/blob/master/docs/usage.md




Also see

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:SomeoneElse/Ubuntu_1804_tileserver_load#Updating_your_database_as_people_edit_OpenStreetMap

Cheers,
Andy


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Re: [Talk-cz] Bylo: WeeklyOSM CZ 437 - bazény

2018-12-12 Thread majka

On Wed, 12 Dec 2018 at 13:07, Marián Kyral  wrote:

> Tak mě napadlo…
>
> leisure =swimming_pool
> aka *"plavecký" *bazén. To mi neříkejte, že se v bazénku o průměru 3
> metry dá plavat. Maximálně se trochu svlažit. Navrhuji tyhle neplavecké
> bazény přetagovat na něco jiného. Třeba *leisure=garden_pool *nebo
> *leisure=pool* (287x na taginfo) nebo  *landuse=reservoir,
> reservoir=leisure* (pool).
>

Bohužel se obávám, že to přetagování bude ještě složitější než přímo
vymazání... Už vidím v živých barvách, jak mě z import listu ženou ta talk
list, abych si tam domluvila značení těchhle bazénů... Jediná zmínka
ohledně těchhle bazénů je všude "je otázkou, jestli vůbec mají být
mapované" - např anglická stránka
 nebo německá
stránka, diskuse
.
Nic z toho ale nedává alternativu, jak to označit jinak. Já osobně se
přikláním k názoru, že by mapované být neměly, jen bazény zabudované,
opravdu vhodné pro plavání - a pak tedy správně označené jako soukromé,
pokud jsou v zahradách. Těch se ale tahle debata netýká. V bazénu, který se
podaří označit obvodem o délce 20 m si dost dobře nedovedu představit jiné
plavání, než že se tam při troše snahy dá udělat pár temp.

Jako landuse bych to nedávala - landuse by snad mělo být pro trvalé využití
pozemku, což v tomhle případě bude residential. Landuse tu má naprosto
stejný problém, má-li se jednat o opravdové "využití" pozemku o maximálně
nějakých 30m2. Když už, tak nějaký tag spadající pod leisure. I ta zahrada
samotná bude leisure=garden...

Majka
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Re: [Talk-cz] Bylo: WeeklyOSM CZ 437 - bazény

2018-12-12 Thread Tom Ka

Souhlasim se smazanim, Marianuv napad neni spatny, ale nenasel jsem
nic rozumneho na co to rpetagovat, tak to uz je asi lepsi to rovnou
smazat, zvlast kdyz se omezime na toho fell3.

Bye
st 12. 12. 2018 v 13:07 odesílatel xkomc...@centrum.cz
 napsal:
>
> Já jsem určitě pro mazání!
>
>
> 3 metry jsou podle mne ještě pořád málo - osobně bych dal alespoň 5
> metrů. Něco málo přes tři metry má snad každý nafukovací bazének z
> Mountfieldu: https://www.mountfield.cz/bazeny-nafukovaci-a-ramove A co
> jsem se díval na místa, která znám (a vím, že bazény se na zimu uklízí),
> tak mají 3-5 metrů.
>
>
> On 12. 12. 18 7:51, Majka wrote:
> > Dobře, mazat se nebude.
> >
> > Ale je Vám všem jasné, že to označení jako soukromé patří na všechny ty 
> > zahradní bazény?
> >
> > Ne že by přes nějakých 95% nezmapoval fell3...
> >
> > 12. prosince 2018 6:48:39 SEČ, "Karel Volný"  napsal:
> >> čest práci,
> >>
> >> maje nějakou nenulovou zkušenost s "paneláky naležato" a se
> >> zahrádkářskými
> >> koloniemi, řekl bych, že 3 m průměru jsou dosti - takové bazény si lidi
> >>
> >> obvykle nepřemísťují, naopak spíše časem zčásti zakopou do země
> >>
> >> sezonní brouzdaliště pro úplnou drobotinu má průměr tak max 1,5 m
> >>
> >> každopádně souhlasím s Pavlem, omezme to navíc dle autora, neničme
> >> práci
> >> někomu, kdo se o svoji zahrádku stará i virtuálně a modeluje si jí v
> >> mapě :-)
> >>
> >> K.
> > ___
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> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
> > https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz
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Re: [Talk-it] importare dati osm su database

2018-12-12 Thread Maurizio Napolitano

parti da qui
https://switch2osm.org/manually-building-a-tile-server-18-04-lts/
poi, per gli uggiornamenti invece basta usare le giuste opzioni di
osm2pgsql scaricando gli aggiornamenti da planet.openstreetmap.org
https://github.com/openstreetmap/osm2pgsql/blob/master/docs/usage.md


On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Roberto Brazzelli
 wrote:
>
> Ciao Daniele..vedo di essere più chiaro..
> Vorrei fare prova importando solo alcune categorie di poi
> a livello regionale postgres installato su server cloud debian.
> leggendo sulla wiki a anche su altre risorse mi pare di capire
> che è poi possibile far sincronizzare automaticamente i dati presenti sul
> mio server  con il i dati di osm...è corretto?
>
> a questo punto mi chiedevo quale strada tra osm2pgsql e imposm
> è meglio seguire.
>
> grazie
> rb
>
>
>
>
> Il giorno mar 11 dic 2018 alle ore 18:49 Daniele Forsi  ha 
> scritto:
>>
>> Il giorno mar 11 dic 2018 alle ore 15:49 Roberto Brazzelli ha scritto:
>>
>> > quale delle 2 strade è più semplice?
>>
>> problema x-y: stai elencando delle soluzioni invece di spiegare qual è
>> il tuo problema
>> ("test con dati a livello comunale" non è una spiegazione sufficiente
>> perché test diversi richiedono strumenti diversi)
>> --
>> Daniele Forsi
>>
>> ___
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>
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-- 
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http://de.straba.us

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Re: [Talk-it] Parchimetri a Perugia

2018-12-12 Thread claudio62PG

Ho guardato Roma ma non ho trovato i settori 
ciao
Claudio



--
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Re: [Talk-de] Rein unterirdische Gebäude?

2018-12-12 Thread Tom Pfeifer

Unsere Mapperkollegen im Geoportal/ALKIS/Berlin unterscheiden jedenfalls "Gebäude" und "Bauwerke", 
die ich in unterschiedlichen ALKIS-Layern aufrufen kann. In "Gebäude" finde ich sichtbare Häuser, 
während "Bauwerke" mir Tunnel, Brücken, flach überdeckte Tiefgaragen und bauliche Straßenanlagen 
liefert.


On 12.12.2018 07:08, sepp1...@posteo.de wrote:

Ich vermute, dass für den Renderer gataggt wurde, weil dieser mit Ebene <0 
nicht klar kommt?


Einer der Renderer diskutiert übrigens grade, wie unterirdische Gebäude/Bauwerke gerendert werden 
sollen:

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/552
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3506


Also building=yes, building=parking, layer=-1 oder tiefer sind definitiv 
gerechtfertigt.


Der layer=* tag beschreibt ja nur die Lage von überlappenden Objekten 
zueinander.
Interessanter sind hier das Stockwerk level=*, parking=underground, 
location=underground

tom

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Re: [Talk-it] importare dati osm su database

2018-12-12 Thread Roberto Brazzelli

Ciao Daniele..vedo di essere più chiaro..
Vorrei fare prova importando solo alcune categorie di poi
a livello regionale postgres installato su server cloud debian.
leggendo sulla wiki a anche su altre risorse mi pare di capire
che è poi possibile far sincronizzare automaticamente i dati presenti sul
mio server  con il i dati di osm...è corretto?

a questo punto mi chiedevo quale strada tra osm2pgsql e imposm
è meglio seguire.

grazie
rb




Il giorno mar 11 dic 2018 alle ore 18:49 Daniele Forsi 
ha scritto:

> Il giorno mar 11 dic 2018 alle ore 15:49 Roberto Brazzelli ha scritto:
>
> > quale delle 2 strade è più semplice?
>
> problema x-y: stai elencando delle soluzioni invece di spiegare qual è
> il tuo problema
> ("test con dati a livello comunale" non è una spiegazione sufficiente
> perché test diversi richiedono strumenti diversi)
> --
> Daniele Forsi
>
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Re: [Talk-cz] Bylo: WeeklyOSM CZ 437 - bazény

2018-12-12 Thread Marián Kyral


Tak mě napadlo…




leisure(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Key:leisure)=swimming_pool
aka "plavecký" bazén. To mi neříkejte, že se v bazénku o průměru 3 metry dá
plavat. Maximálně se trochu svlažit. Navrhuji tyhle neplavecké bazény
přetagovat na něco jiného. Třeba leisure=garden_pool nebo leisure=pool (287x
na taginfo) nebo  landuse=reservoir, reservoir=leisure (pool).

Marián

-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Majka 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 12. 12. 2018 7:52:37
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Bylo: WeeklyOSM CZ 437 - bazény
"Dobře, mazat se nebude.

Ale je Vám všem jasné, že to označení jako soukromé patří na všechny ty
zahradní bazény?

Ne že by přes nějakých 95% nezmapoval fell3...

12. prosince 2018 6:48:39 SEČ, "Karel Volný"  napsal:
>čest práci,
>

>
>maje nějakou nenulovou zkušenost s "paneláky naležato" a se
>zahrádkářskými
>koloniemi, řekl bych, že 3 m průměru jsou dosti - takové bazény si lidi
>
>obvykle nepřemísťují, naopak spíše časem zčásti zakopou do země
>
>sezonní brouzdaliště pro úplnou drobotinu má průměr tak max 1,5 m
>
>každopádně souhlasím s Pavlem, omezme to navíc dle autora, neničme
>práci
>někomu, kdo se o svoji zahrádku stará i virtuálně a modeluje si jí v
>mapě :-)
>
>K.

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Re: [Talk-cz] Bylo: WeeklyOSM CZ 437 - bazény

2018-12-12 Thread xkomc...@centrum.cz


Já jsem určitě pro mazání!


3 metry jsou podle mne ještě pořád málo - osobně bych dal alespoň 5 
metrů. Něco málo přes tři metry má snad každý nafukovací bazének z 
Mountfieldu: https://www.mountfield.cz/bazeny-nafukovaci-a-ramove A co 
jsem se díval na místa, která znám (a vím, že bazény se na zimu uklízí), 
tak mají 3-5 metrů.



On 12. 12. 18 7:51, Majka wrote:

Dobře, mazat se nebude.

Ale je Vám všem jasné, že to označení jako soukromé patří na všechny ty 
zahradní bazény?

Ne že by přes nějakých 95% nezmapoval fell3...

12. prosince 2018 6:48:39 SEČ, "Karel Volný"  napsal:

čest práci,

maje nějakou nenulovou zkušenost s "paneláky naležato" a se
zahrádkářskými
koloniemi, řekl bych, že 3 m průměru jsou dosti - takové bazény si lidi

obvykle nepřemísťují, naopak spíše časem zčásti zakopou do země

sezonní brouzdaliště pro úplnou drobotinu má průměr tak max 1,5 m

každopádně souhlasím s Pavlem, omezme to navíc dle autora, neničme
práci
někomu, kdo se o svoji zahrádku stará i virtuálně a modeluje si jí v
mapě :-)

K.

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Re: [Talk-cz] WeeklyOSM CZ 437

2018-12-12 Thread Marián Kyral


-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Tom Ka 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 12. 12. 2018 9:34:44
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] WeeklyOSM CZ 437
"Diky za pripominky, stojime ;-)

A to ani nevite, co vsechno odchyti po mne Marian. Jak clovek
preklada, tak premysli v anglictine a obcas z toho vypadnou pekne
nesmysly ;-)
"



Zájemci si to jistě najdou  v gitu ;-)

(https://openstreetmap.cz/git/tom.k/WeeklyOSM-CZ/commits/master)



"
Mariane, mas dalsi motivaci udelat pristi rok na SotM "stripky z WeeklyOSM"
:-D
"



No uvidíme. Nic neslibuji :-D




Marián
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[Talk-it] Your experience with Wikimedia Italia being a local OSMF chapter

2018-12-12 Thread Michał Brzozowski

Hi to all Italian mappers,

The Polish OpenStreetMap Association is on the verge of dissolution due to
lack of enough people at the last annual general meeting to run for the
board and the revision commission.

Depending on what the next general meeting will vote for in the January and
what the attendance will be, one of the likely outcomes is dissolution and
transfer of the assets (web domain and funds) to Wikimedia Polska.

As Wikimedia Italia is a local chapter of the OSMF, I'd like to ask you a
few things that hopefully will inform the discussion of our Polish
community and if the dissolution-transfer occurs, could give WMPL an idea
what to go with or improve on.

- How many members of WMIT are actively interested in OSM or joined because
of OSM?

- What part of expenses is related to OSM?

- What types of OSM-related activities does the WMIT organize, finance or
promote? E.g. do you organize conferences, smaller meetings (like mapping
parties), distribute promotional material, run servers (for maps, QA) and
so on?

- Is there demand among companies and government institutions to have some
tangible entity they can talk to about OSM? (In Poland certainly there is.)

- How do the members interested in OSM organize within WMIT? What is the
level of autonomy if any or necessary at all?

- Do you form strategic or one-off partnerships related to OSM with outside
entities?

NB: to be clear, I am not writing this in official capacity.

Greetings,
Michał Brzozowski
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/RicoElectrico
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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

2018-12-12 Thread Jóhannes Birgir Jensson


  Mail will not arrive there as mail will be stopped in post-office
because of incorrect (not existing) address.


Nope - Try it yourself. If you live in Examplestreet 10 and you start
sending yourself postcards with Examplestreet 10a they'll reach you.


Post offices often have a good time trying to decipher incorrect 
addresses. Sometimes they even decipher a map [1] - other times they get 
a name, town and country and go from there - playing detective can be 
fun.



[1] 
http://skessuhorn.is/2016/05/20/frumleg-aritun-sendibrefs-en-dugdi-tho/


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Re: [Talk-de] Abschaltung "devserver" (gauss, humbolt und mercator)

2018-12-12 Thread Sven Geggus

Volker Schmidt  wrote:

> Was ist aus  osmrm.openstreetmap.de geworden?

Huch, hatte ich das Missgeschick eines FOSSGIS-Admins hier nicht erwähnt?

https://twitter.com/realgiggls/status/1066828355796955136

Statt der initialen Installation eines neuen Servers wurde
everest.openstreetmap.de plattgemacht.

Candid hat seine Sachen offenbar bisher nicht restauriert.

Gruss

Sven

-- 
"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have
 nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free
 speech because you have nothing to say." (Edward Snowden)
/me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web

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Re: [Talk-ee] Translations of cities of Ukraine

This table has an error
The Chinese have recently switched to the Ukrainian name.
Jifu In Chinese Wikipedia, the Chinese provided me with an official 
confirmation of the new translation.
In Chinese Wikipedia, an article about Kyiv is called the Ukrainian name.


середа, 12 грудня 2018 р. 11:20:18 UTC+2 користувач Bondar-Skowronski 
Bohdan написав:
>
>
>
> середа, 12 грудня 2018 р. 11:17:48 UTC+2 користувач Bondar-Skowronski 
> Bohdan написав:
>>
>>
>> I want to ask Estonians for permission in name: et new translations.
>> As a Ukrainian, I critically perceive when in the 21st century they 
>> continue to use Russian names instead of Ukrainian ones.
>> For example, the capital of Ukraine Kyiv
>> There are two versions of the translation in the Estonian Wikipedia.
>> Old to which Estonians are accustomed - Kiiev
>> and the new version of *Kõjiv*
>> *Kõjiv*is the real name of the city 
>> Kiiev is a Russian name coined in Moscow and moved to world cartography.
>> Since now Ukraine is completely independent of Russia and on the basis of 
>> the rules on ground it is necessary to use the Ukrainian name *Kõjiv*/
>> Russian name Kiiev to write as an alternative.
>> When a foreigner arrives in Kyiv, he will see more than 99 percent of 
>> Kyiv and will mostly hear Ukrainian.
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 01:38:37PM +0200, Tomas Straupis wrote:
> 2018-12-11, an, 13:27 Jochen Topf rašė:
> > It seems you haven't understood the on-the-ground rule 5 years ago and
> > you still haven't. For all intents and purposes there is such an
> > address. Mail will arrive there, people can find the house when looking
> > for it.
> 
>   Mail will not arrive there as mail will be stopped in post-office
> because of incorrect (not existing) address.

Nope - Try it yourself. If you live in Examplestreet 10 and you start
sending yourself postcards with Examplestreet 10a they'll reach you.

Deutsche Post has its complete own address record set than the State
and if Examplestreet 1-100 go into a certain post delivery district
any of those addresses, existant or not will be on the Desk of the
right guy to take your postcard. 

Otherwise it'll take 2 years for new construction areas to be able to
receive post - It works from day 1. It may take a day longer on the
first occurance of an address - but it works.

I used this for a couple years to taint address databases so i could
track who actually leaked the address to mail spam companies.

Flo
-- 
Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
UTF-8 Test: The  ran after a , but the  ran away

signature.asc
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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 01:08:35PM +0200, Tomas Straupis wrote:
>   This is a very good example of possibly misleading reflection.
>   What if a driver is stopping in unofficial position somewhere
> outside of large city to let local people he knows out/in even when
> there is no official stop?
>   What if a national park had a small sign in the forest track and the
> sign was not moved when national park boundaries have moved?
>   I had an actual situation 5 or so years ago when an address was
> mapped in Vilnius. Address does not exist in official records. The
> user sent me a picture of this house number. I contacted municipality
> ant they explained that the sign is not an official one, it means
> nothing, there is no such address.

There is no such address in municipal records. Does not mean a lot 
in 95% of the World. In the other 5% of the World it means someone
is using an inofficial address. Still it works. So we document its
existance by mapping it. We are not a replica of some other dataset
which is as error prone as ours.

Flo
-- 
Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
UTF-8 Test: The  ran after a , but the  ran away


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[Talk-de] admin_level 9 vs 10 - NRW


Hi,
wir haben in Ostwestfalen-Lippe gerade das Thema admin_level 9 vs 10.

Mir ist klar das ein admin_level 9 eine eigene Verwaltung hat und
10 eben nicht.

Die Frage ist - was heisst in diesem Fall eine eigene Verwaltung.

Bezirksausschuss?
Ortsvorsteher?
Bezirksverwaltung (Eigenständig, nicht nur geografisch von der
Hauptverwaltung getrennt)

Ich habe mir gerade mal 3-4 Hauptsatzungen zur Gemeindegliederung
angesehen und da gibts die Bezirksausschüsse oder Ortsvorsteher
ja quasi überall. Die könnte man aber auch zur Politik zählen
d.h. das ist keine Verwaltung.

Denen können aber auch Aufgaben übertragen werden.

Ist das dann schon ein admin_level 9? 

Flo
-- 
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UTF-8 Test: The  ran after a , but the  ran away


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Re: [Talk-ee] Translations of cities of Ukraine

2018-12-12 Thread Jaak Laineste

Hey,

This is interesting topic. Many international names (and words in general) in 
Estonian do have obvious etymological route via our big neighbour's language. 
More well known to me is the case of Georgia (the country) what we normally 
call Gruusia (for centuries I believe), but some years ago some were 
questioning whether the name has some bad associations for the georgians, and 
suggested to have new name "Jürimaa". Which is totally weird, strange and it 
never gained any wider popularity, so we gave up. I suspect also English name 
"Georgia" would have similar issue.

Very similar sample to the Kiiev case: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/29787492 
 - I see now that there are a lot 
of "Tallin" variations, which is clearly from Russian and therefore wrong.  
Some people complain about this too, but I would not teach others how to write 
in their language, that's totally up to them.

In Estonian there are no 'official' ways to write or transliterate foreign 
names, for person names there is probably some more official transliteration 
rule (as sometimes you need to translate Arabic names etc), but not for 
placenames.

Estonian Language Institute has database which is often used as useful 
guideline, even if it is not legally binding. For Ukrainian capital there is 
one main form, and many parallel ones: 
https://www.eki.ee/cgi-bin/mkn8.cgi?form=mm=et=96062986=Y=Y==Y=Y=tb

However, we have also general trend to move from "Estonian-like" placename 
writings to more similar to original (and sometimes to international/english) 
ones. So  before 1940 we wrote Kalifornia and Kostariika, now we have always 
California and Costa Rica. Similar thing has happened with our neighbour 
Latvian names - people say Salacgriva, not Salatsi etc. 

My personal opinion is that if we have more or less firm consensus what is 
Estonian version of a placename, then I'd stick to that, regardless from where 
it is coming from. Maybe one day we would start writing for example Kõjiv or 
Kõjev to be more close to Ukrainian origin, but first our language tradition 
should change, and then we'll fix it on the map, not vice versa. 

Jaak

p.s. I think you'd need to subscribe to the list to be able to post and read 
answers

> On 12 Dec 2018, at 11:20, Bondar-Skowronski Bohdan  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> середа, 12 грудня 2018 р. 11:17:48 UTC+2 користувач Bondar-Skowronski Bohdan 
> написав:
> 
> I want to ask Estonians for permission in name: et new translations.
> As a Ukrainian, I critically perceive when in the 21st century they continue 
> to use Russian names instead of Ukrainian ones.
> For example, the capital of Ukraine Kyiv
> There are two versions of the translation in the Estonian Wikipedia.
> Old to which Estonians are accustomed - Kiiev
> and the new version of Kõjiv
> Kõjivis the real name of the city 
> Kiiev is a Russian name coined in Moscow and moved to world cartography.
> Since now Ukraine is completely independent of Russia and on the basis of the 
> rules on ground it is necessary to use the Ukrainian name Kõjiv/
> Russian name Kiiev to write as an alternative.
> When a foreigner arrives in Kyiv, he will see more than 99 percent of Kyiv 
> and will mostly hear Ukrainian.
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[Talk-ee] Village in hamlet

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/64846381
Check the compliance with the rules and results of the discussion of the 
Estonian community

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Re: [Talk-ee] Translations of cities of Ukraine



середа, 12 грудня 2018 р. 11:17:48 UTC+2 користувач Bondar-Skowronski 
Bohdan написав:
>
>
> I want to ask Estonians for permission in name: et new translations.
> As a Ukrainian, I critically perceive when in the 21st century they 
> continue to use Russian names instead of Ukrainian ones.
> For example, the capital of Ukraine Kyiv
> There are two versions of the translation in the Estonian Wikipedia.
> Old to which Estonians are accustomed - Kiiev
> and the new version of *Kõjiv*
> *Kõjiv*is the real name of the city 
> Kiiev is a Russian name coined in Moscow and moved to world cartography.
> Since now Ukraine is completely independent of Russia and on the basis of 
> the rules on ground it is necessary to use the Ukrainian name *Kõjiv*/
> Russian name Kiiev to write as an alternative.
> When a foreigner arrives in Kyiv, he will see more than 99 percent of Kyiv 
> and will mostly hear Ukrainian.
>
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[Talk-ee] Translations of cities of Ukraine