Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Relation pour places de parking, quel rôle pour les membres ?

[Philippe Verdy]

Le "foot=permissive" n'est pas implicite pour "access=no". Il y a bien
des accès interdits à tous (sauf autorisation spéciale pour certaines
personnes ou personnels dans des conditions spéciales ou avec certains
équipements ou sous surveillance), y compris les piétons, notamment
parce que c'est une zone dangereuse, et pas seulement parce que ce
serait une propriété privée (cas où on utilise plutôt
"access=private", qui s'adresse aussi à tous type de véhicules ou
piéton, en ignorant aussi tout aspect handicap, mais seulement
l'aspect propriété ou réservé à certains personnels comme les zones
militaires, les enceintes de sécurité autout d'installations
sensibles, les quartiers de prisons, etc.)

Les restrictions d'accès fonctionne sur différents critères: type de
véhicule (ou absence de véhicule), type de personne servie (handicap
justifié par un porteur de carte dans le domaine public), propriété
(privée ou domaniale/militaire), zone de danger. mais "access=no" ne
précise pas l'axe d'analyse, par défaut il interdit tout (et on peut
juste admettre l'exception générale permanente "hsv=permissive" et
l'exception temporaire des cas d'urgence où on ne peut pas faire
autrement que passer par ces zones à priori interdites en temps
normal).

Mais "foot=permissive" ne me semble pas être une exception générale
permanente, notamment pas pour les places de stationnement pour
véhicules transportant des handicapés. Si on met "access=no", même un
piéton handicapé ou ses accompagnateurs ne pourrait pas venir dans la
zone de parking, et serait verbalisable s'il y entre juste en passant
ou pour traverser la rue ou le parking. "foot=permissive" me semble
donc approprié sinon on a construit autour du parking une barrière
infranchissable légalement et tout le monde doit contourner ce parking
"inaccessible".

Je serais donc plutôt favorable à "access=no" + "handicaped=yes" (je
n'aime pas trop la clé "disabled=yes" qui est trop ambiguë) +
"foot=permissive". Mais en France "handicaped=yes" est faux pour ces
places marquées car le handicap n'est pas suffisant, il faut pouvoir
montrer une carte française ou européenne valide pour le stationnement
sans limite de durée, ou être un VSL/ambulance/véhicule de secours lui
aussi identifié (marquage permanent ou carte de service visible sur le
tableau de bord) et en service (avertisseurs lumineux, ou autre
personnel à bord, qui attend à proximité la prise en charge d'une
personne en handicap ou en urgence médicale ou de sécurité) pour un un
stationnement de courte durée ou un simple arrêt de tout véhicule
(motorisé ou pas); on tolère juste l'arrêt ou le passage de piétons et
véhicules non motorisés mais ils ne sont pas prioritaires et doivent
vite céder la place.

Enfin les accès pour handicapés ne leurs sont que rarement réservés
(hormis les places de stationnement de véhicules), c'est le cas des
accès aux autres transports publics aménagés pour leur faciliter
l'accès, des entrées de commerces et services, des trottoirs
surbaissés aux passages piétons, des rampes d'accès à côté des
escaliers, où cependant l'usage des engins roulants peuvent être
interdits et où l'accès doit se faire au pas et non en courant avec
les panneaux "défense de courir", "rollers interdits", "cyclistes,
descendez de selle..." (et d'autres restrictions comme "chiens
interdits même tenus en laisse", qui cependant ne concerne pas les
chiens-guides, fauteuils ou prothèses médicales, considérés exactement
comme partie non séparée de la personne qu'ils aident, comme si
c'était ses propres mains ou ses yeux).

Le sam. 22 févr. 2020 à 22:24, deuzeffe  a écrit :
>
> Le 22/02/2020 à 18:53, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com a écrit :
> > Si Philippe avait été regarder la contribution il nous aurait évité son
> > avant dernier message.
> >
> >> > Du coup j'ai mis access=no + disables=yes pour qualifier l'ensemble.
> >
> > Deuzeffe, Arnaud a raison quand il met les deux tags. Sauf qu'il voulait
> > dire disabled.
>
> Lectrice attentive, toussa.
>
> > On a beau dire place PMR, c'est toute personne handicapée qui peut s'y
> > garer, à condition d'avoir le macaron : un sourd, même n'ayant aucun
> > problème de motricité, peut s'y garer.
>
> On est bien d'accord.  échappera.>
>
> > On peut considérer qu'en France disabled=yes implique hsv=yes et
> > foot=permissive. Je pense qu'il n'y a aucun intérêt de le taguer
> > explicitement.
>
> Si je comprends bien, disabled=yes + access=no c'est comme, cela va sans
> dire mais mieux en le disant ? Donc, tagguer explicitement l'implicite,
> c'est ça ?
>
> --
> deuzeffe - mouais.
>
>
> ___
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Re: [talk-au] TfNSW Cycleways use in OSM

[Luke Stewart]

*I'd agree - that's what I thought was going on? I understand
shared_lane as when they paint a bike in the leftmost lane of a road, or in
the middle of an alley/small residential road.With that said, TfNSW's
definition - "On road facility type shared with moving vehicles" - is a lot
vaguer, so I wonder if they're tagging some unmarked routes..*

I also agree with this; without any bicycle stencil, that should be classed
as no bicycle specific facilities. Considering they already have lane and
segregated lanes in separate classes, a stencil is about the only other
class I could think of that meets the TfNSW definition.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?

[stevea]

I, too, have noticed this "apparent deprecation" of the importance of our wiki 
and would like to see it remedied.  Not only do I find the wiki drop-dead easy 
to search and "read up on" how to do something in OSM (as in "this is how we 
already do it" or "this is how far along we are on a particular (local, 
specific) endeavor or sub-project") — encyclopedia / wikipedia style — but 
there is a comparatively low bar of entry should even a novice user wish to 
change / update a wiki that is already substantially written, but can benefit 
by a casual user coming along and discovering it needs only a slight update to 
be ship-shape.  In my opinion, this makes our wiki one of the most powerful 
reference and communication vehicles in the project, as even for novices, it is 
not only highly accessible and helpful, but encourages simple (or yes, even 
complex) contributions which strengthen it.

Let's continue to "market" our wiki (to newer users, especially) as the very 
potent resource that it is.  If this means improvement in how we point (newer) 
users to our wiki, let's do that.  If there are other, more noticeable or 
visible places where we can do this but now do not, let's fix that so we do.

SteveA
California

> On Feb 22, 2020, at 2:21 PM, Clifford Snow  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 12:49 PM Wayne Emerson, Jr. via talk 
>  wrote:
> The OSM World Discord server usually has people on that can answer basic 
> questionshttps://discord.gg/q6HnfNZ
> Doing the iD tutorial teaches the basics and is easy to learn. One can learn 
> the basic tags by using the presets found using the iD search box. Tagging a 
> basic individual object can be learned from the wiki.
> 
> The iD tutorial is very helpful for new mappers. Completing the tutorial only 
> takes a few minutes. Unfortunately only a small percentage start or complete 
> the tutorial.  Since the first of the year of the nearly 6800 new mappers 
> only 29% complete the entire tutorial. While it doesn't get at complex edits, 
> it does cover what I see a typical new mapper contribute. 
> 
> However some tagging situations are more complex, like how to tag a school 
> (What tags go on schoolyard vs. the building) or bus routes, or admin 
> boundaries, etc. There are some nice guides buried in the wiki but it can be 
> difficult for a beginner to wade through all the component tags before 
> finding a guide to the whole. This can be discouraging to a new mapper. Even 
> more so when you do find a guide, for example, on tagging bus routes but then 
> not being sure if its the new scheme or the old scheme and so many 
> contradictions can make people give up.
> 
> I agree with this assessment. Just yesterday a new mapper added a new park, 
> unfortunately one already existed. Because it was a complex multipolygon I'm 
> sure they did realize it. 
> 
>  
> 
> Wiki cleanup & a front page link to an index of authoritative & current 
> tagging guides for complex entities would be nice. Maybe call it "Special 
> Mapping Guides"
> 
> Creating nicer guides would be nice, but my experience, most new mappers 
> don't start looking at the wiki until much later. I do point to wiki articles 
> when giving feedback with the hope they will read it.
> 
> One of the other problems facing new and occasional mappers is the complexity 
> and density of many of the cities.  When I started in the US I was able to 
> add glaciers and parks with a clean palette to work from. Today when mapping 
> we have unlike features joined, complex relations, streets with lane counts 
> and turn lanes, streams, culverts, sidewalks, buildings, etc.. It's much 
> harder to for a new or occasional mapper to contribute without problems. 
> 
> Some might suggest we force new mappers to go through the tutorial. I don't 
> think that's the answer. It would turn too many people off. The only solution 
> I can suggest is to make our editing software more robust with better hints 
> and presets. For this I applaud iD for the many improvements that have been 
> made over the years. 
> 
> Best,
> Clifford
> -- 
> @osm_washington
> www.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
> ___
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Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 22. Feb 2020, at 23:25, Clifford Snow  wrote:
> 
> Creating nicer guides would be nice, but my experience, most new mappers 
> don't start looking at the wiki until much later. I do point to wiki articles 
> when giving feedback with the hope they will read it.


When I started mapping, the wiki was prominently linked from the map page and 
the wiki start page led to the various sections for beginners as well as more 
detailed documentation of map features, for developers etc.

Some years later the wiki link got hidden behind the help link, where it is the 
very last point after links to the forum, mailings lists (!), irc, help forum, 
switch2osm, „for organisations“, etc.
It might look for a newbie as if the wiki is the least interesting source for 
someone looking for help...

Cheers Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?

[Clifford Snow]

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 12:49 PM Wayne Emerson, Jr. via talk <
talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> The OSM World Discord server usually has people on that can answer basic
> questions https://discord.gg/q6HnfNZ
> Doing the iD tutorial teaches the basics and is easy to learn. One can
> learn the basic tags by using the presets found using the iD search box.
> Tagging a basic individual object can be learned from the wiki.
>

The iD tutorial is very helpful for new mappers. Completing the tutorial
only takes a few minutes. Unfortunately only a small percentage start or
complete the tutorial.  Since the first of the year of the nearly 6800 new
mappers only 29% complete the entire tutorial. While it doesn't get at
complex edits, it does cover what I see a typical new mapper contribute.

>
> However some tagging situations are more complex, like how to tag a school
> (What tags go on schoolyard vs. the building) or bus routes, or admin
> boundaries, etc. There are some nice guides buried in the wiki but it can
> be difficult for a beginner to wade through all the component tags before
> finding a guide to the whole. This can be discouraging to a new mapper.
> Even more so when you do find a guide, for example, on tagging bus routes
> but then not being sure if its the new scheme or the old scheme and so many
> contradictions can make people give up.
>

I agree with this assessment. Just yesterday a new mapper added a new park,
unfortunately one already existed. Because it was a complex multipolygon
I'm sure they did realize it.



>
> Wiki cleanup & a front page link to an index of authoritative & current
> tagging guides for complex entities would be nice. Maybe call it "Special
> Mapping Guides"
>

Creating nicer guides would be nice, but my experience, most new mappers
don't start looking at the wiki until much later. I do point to wiki
articles when giving feedback with the hope they will read it.

One of the other problems facing new and occasional mappers is the
complexity and density of many of the cities.  When I started in the US I
was able to add glaciers and parks with a clean palette to work from. Today
when mapping we have unlike features joined, complex relations, streets
with lane counts and turn lanes, streams, culverts, sidewalks, buildings,
etc.. It's much harder to for a new or occasional mapper to contribute
without problems.

Some might suggest we force new mappers to go through the tutorial. I don't
think that's the answer. It would turn too many people off. The only
solution I can suggest is to make our editing software more robust with
better hints and presets. For this I applaud iD for the many improvements
that have been made over the years.

Best,
Clifford
-- 
@osm_washington
www.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Relation pour places de parking, quel rôle pour les membres ?

[deuzeffe]

Le 22/02/2020 à 18:53, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com a écrit :

Si Philippe avait été regarder la contribution il nous aurait évité son
avant dernier message.


> Du coup j'ai mis access=no + disables=yes pour qualifier l'ensemble.


Deuzeffe, Arnaud a raison quand il met les deux tags. Sauf qu'il voulait
dire disabled.


Lectrice attentive, toussa.


On a beau dire place PMR, c'est toute personne handicapée qui peut s'y
garer, à condition d'avoir le macaron : un sourd, même n'ayant aucun
problème de motricité, peut s'y garer.


On est bien d'accord. échappera.>



On peut considérer qu'en France disabled=yes implique hsv=yes et
foot=permissive. Je pense qu'il n'y a aucun intérêt de le taguer
explicitement.


Si je comprends bien, disabled=yes + access=no c'est comme, cela va sans 
dire mais mieux en le disant ? Donc, tagguer explicitement l'implicite, 
c'est ça ?


--
deuzeffe - mouais.


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Re: [talk-au] TfNSW Cycleways use in OSM

[Ash Logan]

Hey Andrew!

On 22/02/2020 10.07, Andrew Harvey wrote:
Hi Ash, it's great to see some interest in improving bicycle 
infrastructure in OSM!


On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 at 15:46, Ash Logan > wrote:

...

For me it's more that we already have a lot of cycle infrastructure 
mapped which is constantly being updated and improved so if anything 
TfNSW data should be treated as a guide only and not the only source of 
information especially for indications of missing or removed cycle 
infrastructure.Understandable! So far I've mostly been using it to "point out" infra on 
aerial, and deal with some of the boilerplate tags. I don't think it 
should be trusted over recent imagery or a survey that says something 
*doesn't* exist.


cycleway:width on a cycleway=shared_lane doesn't make a lot of sense to 
me, is that the road width? in which case it's just width=, or is it the 
lane width?
I took a quick look through the data and a lot of the lanes and on-road 
bits appeared to have the lane width rather than the road width, which I 
guess makes sense because you're only interested in the lane as a 
cyclist. A better tag would probably be width:lanes, but that needs 
information I don't have in this dataset (other lanes, lane ordering, 
etc.) and makes cycleway=shoulder a bit confusing.
Mappers using this should definitely check the width tags anyway, a lot 
of them don't seem right to me.


After a quick scan it looks like a cycle route is marked as 
cycleway=shared_lane, though generally I'd only add cycleway=shared_lane 
if there is some kind of bicycle marking on the ground, is that reasonable?
I'd agree - that's what I thought was going on? I understand shared_lane 
as when they paint a bike in the leftmost lane of a road, or in the 
middle of an alley/small residential road.
With that said, TfNSW's definition - "On road facility type shared with 
moving vehicles" - is a lot vaguer, so I wonder if they're tagging some 
unmarked routes..


-Ash
--
https://heyquark.com

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Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?

[Wayne Emerson, Jr. via talk]

The OSM World Discord server usually has people on that can answer basic 
questions https://discord.gg/q6HnfNZ
Doing the iD tutorial teaches the basics and is easy to learn. One can 
learn the basic tags by using the presets found using the iD search box. 
Tagging a basic individual object can be learned from the wiki.


However some tagging situations are more complex, like how to tag a 
school (What tags go on schoolyard vs. the building) or bus routes, or 
admin boundaries, etc. There are some nice guides buried in the wiki but 
it can be difficult for a beginner to wade through all the component 
tags before finding a guide to the whole. This can be discouraging to a 
new mapper. Even more so when you do find a guide, for example, on 
tagging bus routes but then not being sure if its the new scheme or the 
old scheme and so many contradictions can make people give up.


Wiki cleanup & a front page link to an index of authoritative & current 
tagging guides for complex entities would be nice. Maybe call it 
"Special Mapping Guides"


On 2/22/2020 5:25 AM, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:




22 Feb 2020, 10:37 by si...@poole.ch:

From a pedagogic point of view I would consider that suboptimal,
no to mention that it would be endless.

I expect that endless part may be
solved by generating it automatically
from iD and Vespucci presets.

For anybody that is going to contribute more than once (and iDs
tutorial does a good job of guiding through that), we want them to
learn the basic concepts of OSM and enable them to extend that to
new situations.

It is intended to be tutorial for the first edit.

I remember that I was quite confused
during making first edits.

That is different from a guided contribution model, say for
example with https://osmybiz.osm.ch/
 which is preferable
for people that don't want to contribute to OSM in general but
just want to add and maintain a specific object.


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Relation pour places de parking, quel rôle pour les membres ?

[Arnaud Champollion]

Le 22/02/2020 à 20:34, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com a écrit :

Signifie que c'est Arnaud qui le dit.



Oui je voulais bien sûr écrire disabled (et c'est la valeur renseignée).



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Re: [Diversity-talk] Community track at SOTM

[Christine Karch]

Hi Heather,

a short reminder: the CfP will close in about 24 h. Please submit a
rough description of what you are planning. This will help the programm
committee to preparing the schedule for SotM 2020! And please tell us in
case the formats are not fitting for your submission in the "note" section.

https://pretalx.com/sotm2020/cfp

Kind regards,

Christine


Am 11.02.20 um 13:42 schrieb Heather Leson:
> Thanks for the question, Christine. We were hoping to string together 3
> sessions for a morning. This way we can build on how we might progress
> on  community. My draft suggestion is to consider some of the topics
> from fosdem, the osm swot and the community survey. Next I will start a
> collaborative draft. 
> 
> In this draft, we will shape the themes and formats.
> 
> I am on work mission this week so I wont be able to tackle this until
> the weekend. The good news is that ive been contacted offlist by some
> allies who are keen to have productive make sessions
> 
> Thanks again 
> 
> Heather 
> 
> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020, 15:31 Christine Karch,  > wrote:
> 
> Hi, sounds like a good idea. Thank you for organizing that! Is the space
> of a 90 minutes panel or extended talk enough for that kind of session?
> Or do you need something more special? I would recommend to add this in
> the "notes" section during the submission!
> 
> Am 09.02.20 um 06:20 schrieb Heather Leson:
> > Hi I chatted briefly with Trudy. Who would like to help me curate a
> > track on community for SOTM?
> >
> > Last weekend I went to FOSDEM. There were some great talks that relate
> > to our work - I curated a list (videos and slides are online)
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Heather%20Leson/diary/392119
> >
> > heather
> >
> > Heather Leson
> > heatherle...@gmail.com 
> >
> > Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
> > Blog: textontechs.com 
> 
> >
> > ___
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> > Code of Conduct:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct
> > Contact the mods (private): diversity-talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
> 
> >
> 


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Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 186, Issue 56

[Volker Schmidt]

Excellent idea.

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 20:55 Sören Reinecke,  wrote:

> > I would promote the same approach today. And would suggest to consider
> screen-sharing sessions as an additional very efficient means for such
> tutoring sessions.
>
> I'm trying to achieve this, see https://wiki.osm.org/User:Valor%20Naram
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 186, Issue 56
> From: Volker Schmidt
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> CC:
>
>
> Looking back at my first steps in editing OSM: when I subscribed I was
> presented with a "who is mapping in your area" type of info. I selected a
> nearby experienced and recently-active mapper and contacted him via the OSM
> message system. He offered me,  and I happily accepted him as my tutor. I
> would promote the same approach today. And would suggest to consider
> screen-sharing sessions as an additional very efficient means for such
> tutoring sessions. OSM is not only open geo data, it's also a community.
> Volker
> Italy
>
> On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 13:04 ,  wrote:
>
>> Send talk mailing list submissions to
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Re: Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at
>>   complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?
>>   (Simon Poole)
>>2. Re: Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at
>>   complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?
>>   (Mateusz Konieczny)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 10:37:45 +0100
>> From: Simon Poole 
>> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial
>> directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various
>> features?
>> Message-ID: <00831175-0728-6247-e93d-68ad41c0f...@poole.ch>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> From a pedagogic point of view I would consider that suboptimal, no to
>> mention that it would be endless.
>>
>> For anybody that is going to contribute more than once (and iDs tutorial
>> does a good job of guiding through that), we want them to learn the
>> basic concepts of OSM and enable them to extend that to new situations.
>>
>> That is different from a guided contribution model, say for example with
>> https://osmybiz.osm.ch/ <https://osmybiz.osm.ch/#/19/47.15976/8.36968>
>> which is preferable for people that don't want to contribute to OSM in
>> general but just want to add and maintain a specific object.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>> Am 22.02.2020 um 05:37 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk:
>> > Is there some automatically generated website
>> > describing in excruciating detail how to map various features?
>> >
>> > Something directed to a potential mappers,
>> > explicitly describing every single smallest step,
>> > for every single mappable feature.
>> >
>> > I ask as I had again a friend asking me
>> > "how to add aconstruction area/path/... to OSM".
>> >
>> > And it seems to me that automatically generated
>> > set of such tutorials is both feasible and potentially useful.
>> >
>> > ___
>> > talk mailing list
>> > talk@openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20200222/41262dc6/attachment-0001.htm
>> >
>> -- next part --
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>> >
>>
>> --
>>
>> M

Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 186, Issue 56

[Sören Reinecke via talk]

> I would promote the same approach today. And would suggest to consider screen-sharing sessions as an additional very efficient means for such tutoring sessions.I'm trying to achieve this, see https://wiki.osm.org/User:Valor%20Naram Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 186, Issue 56From: Volker Schmidt To: talk@openstreetmap.orgCC: Looking back at my first steps in editing OSM: when I subscribed I was presented with a "who is mapping in your area" type of info. I selected a nearby experienced and recently-active mapper and contacted him via the OSM message system. He offered me,  and I happily accepted him as my tutor. I would promote the same approach today. And would suggest to consider screen-sharing sessions as an additional very efficient means for such tutoring sessions. OSM is not only open geo data, it's also a community. VolkerItalyOn Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 13:04 , <talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:Send talk mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at
      complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?
      (Simon Poole)
   2. Re: Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at
      complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?
      (Mateusz Konieczny)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 10:37:45 +0100
From: Simon Poole <si...@poole.ch>
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial
        directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?
Message-ID: <00831175-0728-6247-e93d-68ad41c0f...@poole.ch>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

From a pedagogic point of view I would consider that suboptimal, no to
mention that it would be endless.

For anybody that is going to contribute more than once (and iDs tutorial
does a good job of guiding through that), we want them to learn the
basic concepts of OSM and enable them to extend that to new situations.

That is different from a guided contribution model, say for example with
https://osmybiz.osm.ch/ <https://osmybiz.osm.ch/#/19/47.15976/8.36968>
which is preferable for people that don't want to contribute to OSM in
general but just want to add and maintain a specific object.

Simon

Am 22.02.2020 um 05:37 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk:
> Is there some automatically generated website
> describing in excruciating detail how to map various features?
>
> Something directed to a potential mappers,
> explicitly describing every single smallest step,
> for every single mappable feature.
>
> I ask as I had again a friend asking me
> "how to add aconstruction area/path/... to OSM".
>
> And it seems to me that automatically generated
> set of such tutorials is both feasible and potentially useful.
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 11:25:29 +0100 (CET)
From: Mateusz Konieczny <matkoni...@tutanota.com>
Cc: Talk <talk@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial
        directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?
Message-ID: <m0gqyq8--...@tutanota.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"




22 Feb 2020, 10:37 by si...@poole.ch:

>
> From a pedagogic point of view I would consider that suboptimal,      no to mention that it would be endless.
>
>
I expect that endless part may be
solved by generating it automatically
from iD and Vespucci presets.
>
> For anybody that is going to contribute more than once (and iDs      tutorial does a good job of guiding through that), we want them to      learn the basic concepts of OSM and enable them to extend that to      new situations.
>
>
It is inte

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Relation pour places de parking, quel rôle pour les membres ?

[osm . sanspourriel]

L'ai-je dit ? Non.

J'ai dit et je maintiens que tu aurais pu éviter ton antépénultième message.


> Du coup j'ai mis access=no + disables=yes pour qualifier l'ensemble.


Deuzeffe, Arnaud a raison quand il met les deux tags. Sauf qu'il
voulait dire disabled.


Signifie que c'est Arnaud qui le dit. Pas Philippe.


Le 22/02/2020 à 20:27, Philippe Verdy - ver...@gmail.com a écrit :

Le sam. 22 févr. 2020 à 18:54,  a écrit :

Si Philippe avait été regarder la contribution il nous aurait évité son
avant dernier message.


Du coup j'ai mis access=no + disables=yes pour qualifier l'ensemble.

Ce n'est pas moi qui ait indiqué "disables".

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Relation pour places de parking, quel rôle pour les membres ?

[Philippe Verdy]

Le sam. 22 févr. 2020 à 18:54,  a écrit :
>
> Si Philippe avait été regarder la contribution il nous aurait évité son
> avant dernier message.
>
> > > Du coup j'ai mis access=no + disables=yes pour qualifier l'ensemble.

Ce n'est pas moi qui ait indiqué "disables".

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Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 186, Issue 56

[Volker Schmidt]

Looking back at my first steps in editing OSM: when I subscribed I was
presented with a "who is mapping in your area" type of info. I selected a
nearby experienced and recently-active mapper and contacted him via the OSM
message system. He offered me,  and I happily accepted him as my tutor. I
would promote the same approach today. And would suggest to consider
screen-sharing sessions as an additional very efficient means for such
tutoring sessions. OSM is not only open geo data, it's also a community.
Volker
Italy

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 13:04 ,  wrote:

> Send talk mailing list submissions to
> talk@openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at
>   complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?
>   (Simon Poole)
>2. Re: Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at
>   complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?
>   (Mateusz Konieczny)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 10:37:45 +0100
> From: Simon Poole 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial
> directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various
> features?
> Message-ID: <00831175-0728-6247-e93d-68ad41c0f...@poole.ch>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> From a pedagogic point of view I would consider that suboptimal, no to
> mention that it would be endless.
>
> For anybody that is going to contribute more than once (and iDs tutorial
> does a good job of guiding through that), we want them to learn the
> basic concepts of OSM and enable them to extend that to new situations.
>
> That is different from a guided contribution model, say for example with
> https://osmybiz.osm.ch/ <https://osmybiz.osm.ch/#/19/47.15976/8.36968>
> which is preferable for people that don't want to contribute to OSM in
> general but just want to add and maintain a specific object.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 22.02.2020 um 05:37 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk:
> > Is there some automatically generated website
> > describing in excruciating detail how to map various features?
> >
> > Something directed to a potential mappers,
> > explicitly describing every single smallest step,
> > for every single mappable feature.
> >
> > I ask as I had again a friend asking me
> > "how to add aconstruction area/path/... to OSM".
> >
> > And it seems to me that automatically generated
> > set of such tutorials is both feasible and potentially useful.
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> -- next part --
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> URL: <
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20200222/41262dc6/attachment-0001.htm
> >
> -- next part --
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> Name: signature.asc
> Type: application/pgp-signature
> Size: 488 bytes
> Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
> URL: <
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20200222/41262dc6/attachment-0001.sig
> >
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 11:25:29 +0100 (CET)
> From: Mateusz Konieczny 
> Cc: Talk 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial
> directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various
> features?
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
>
> 22 Feb 2020, 10:37 by si...@poole.ch:
>
> >
> > From a pedagogic point of view I would consider that suboptimal,  no
> to mention that it would be endless.
> >
> >
> I expect that endless part may be
> solved by generating it automatically
> from iD and Vespucci presets.
> >
> > For anybody that is going to contribute more than once (and iDs
> tutorial does a good job of guiding through that), we want them to
> learn the basic concepts of OSM and enable them to extend that to  new
>

Re: [Talk-us] Changes for USA data on Geofabrik Download Server

[Martijn van Exel]

Fantastic news! Thanks for the update, Frederik.
-- 
  Martijn van Exel
  m...@rtijn.org

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, at 04:06, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Dear US OSMers,
> 
> for historical reasons, the layout of data for the USA on the Geofabrik
> download server has always been a bit peculiar: There wasn't a file for
> "all of the US" - there was a file for North America (including Canada
> and Mexico), and then there were files for the "Census Regions" (US
> Midwest, US Norhteast and so on, and for individual states.
> 
> (The concrete historical reason is that there used to be a time when due
> to TIGER imports the US extract would have been about 95% of the North
> America file anyway, and not much would be gained by clipping Canada.
> And Mexico was initially not even part of North America on the download
> server, due to my own lack of geographic competence.)
> 
> I'm in the process of straightening that out, so that there will be the
> standard structure (one file for North America, below that a file for
> USA and its neighbours, and below that the different states) in the future.
> 
> In detail, this will mean the following changes:
> 
> (a) for download links (pbf, bz2, diff directories etc)
> 
> * North America remains unchanged.
> * US states (and Norcal/Socal) remain unchanged.
> * new http://download.geofabrik.de/north-america/us-latest.osm.pbf and
> ancillary files
> * the five census regions (Midwest, Northeast, Pacific, South, West)
> will be demoted by one directory from currently
> /north-america/us-midwest-latest.osm.pbf to
> /north-america/us/us-midwest-latest.osm.pbf - but I will set up
> redirects so that the old locations still work for a while.
> 
> (b) for HTML pages
> 
> * http://download.geofabrik.de/north-america.html will drop the US
> states and Census regions and instead list just three sub regions
> (Canada, USA, Mexico)
> * new http://download.geofabrik.de/north-america/us.html to list US
> states and census regions.
> 
> I will make these changes incrementally over the coming days. On the
> whole, this should cause minimum disruption; the only thing that will
> stop working is when someone has written instructions somewhere that go
> like "open the North America download page and select Iowa from the
> list" but I hope that people would then be able to guess that maybe they
> need to click on USA first.
> 
> If this has any unintended consequences let me know and we'll find a way
> to fix it.
> 
> Bye
> Frederik
> 
> PS: Just like with other countries, the "all of US" file is cut out of
> its parent continent file (North America) which means that those bits of
> the USA that lie outside North America will not be included. This mainly
> affects Puerto Rico. I'll be making a standalone Puerto Rico file
> available in the Central America section.
> 
> -- 
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
> 
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>

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Relation pour places de parking, quel rôle pour les membres ?

[osm . sanspourriel]

Si Philippe avait été regarder la contribution il nous aurait évité son
avant dernier message.


> Du coup j'ai mis access=no + disables=yes pour qualifier l'ensemble.


Deuzeffe, Arnaud a raison quand il met les deux tags. Sauf qu'il voulait
dire disabled.

On a beau dire place PMR, c'est toute personne handicapée qui peut s'y
garer, à condition d'avoir le macaron : un sourd, même n'ayant aucun
problème de motricité, peut s'y garer.

On peut considérer qu'en France disabled=yes implique hsv=yes et
foot=permissive. Je pense qu'il n'y a aucun intérêt de le taguer
explicitement.

C'est un peu comme s'il y a le feu : tu as le droit de passer par un
access=no pour aller sauver quelqu'un. Même de fracturer une porte :
nécessite fait loi. Et non on ne va pas le mettre en base !

Jean-Yvon



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Vandalisme utilisateur "PARIS SUD", le retour

[osm . sanspourriel]

Je pense que ce soir ce sera bon (là je vais une passe sur les sorties
comportant en préfixe les noms de stations).

Avec une requête overpass, JOSM et todolist, ça se fait bien.

Je pense qu'un bon moyen de contribuer c'est de trouver les sorties
orphelines et de leur affecter la stop_area qui va bien (éventuellement
de la créer).

Il y a aussi des bouches sans nom ou sans référence.

Jean-Yvon

Le 22/02/2020 à 12:30, pepilepi...@ovh.fr - pepilepi...@ovh.fr a écrit :

Le 20/02/2020 à 21:51, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com a écrit :

J'ai supprimé plus de la moitié des *sortie* dans les noms de bouches.

Il en reste encore environ 200, c'est pénible mais ça avance.

En espérant que personne ne casse...

Jean-Yvon


Bonjour,

Tu veux pas faire un maproulette pour qu'on puisse t'aider ?






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--


Si ma réponse n'a pas résolu ton problème, c'est que tu n'as pas posé
la bonne question.


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Re: [OSM-talk] missing maps? no: missing GPS traces.

[Mario Frasca]

On 17/02/2020 12:21, Mario Frasca wrote:
[…] I'm not just complaining for the sake of it, I'm looking for 
opportunities.


you see, we are in 2020, and people still do not know OSM even 
exists.  just count them: we have 1.35 billion people walking with a 
handheld device, most of which with a GPS, and only 10 thousand 
installations of OSM Tracker for Android.  […]


I was pointed to a web site for sharing GPS traces, mostly for trekking 
and hiking, on foot or by bike, it's called wikiloc (.com).  it uses OSM 
as base map (or Apple map), gives all possible and desirable 
attribution, and has many more traces to offer to globe-trotters than we 
have on OSM.


so there's this curious situation: via wikiloc.com you look for 
suggested walks, and you don't see the path in the map, since we mapping 
for OSM do not see the wikiloc traces, so we can't use them to 
vectorialize the available aerial pictures.  my current practice is to 
browse their traces, using their site as a set of hints for where to 
map, we have Bing after all!


but is there anybody here reading, from the OSMF, who could write to 
them, and suggest some correction to the current situation? like: you 
upload a trace to wikiloc, and apart from all current agreements between 
hiker providing the trace and wikiloc, there would be an extra clause: 
your points are exported to osm, maybe under a generic wikiloc user, and 
marked private, or the wikiloc user coupling their accounts, and 
deciding in their preferences which visibility for their traces.


to have a concrete example, take the Yeguada, north of Calobre, in 
Veraguas, Panamá.  OSM has not a single GPS point recorded there, while 
wikiloc has several traces, along roads that aren't in OSM.


https://www.wikiloc.com/mountain-biking-trails/calobre-la-yeguada-29495788

use the above link to reach the area.  the whole area is in this 
situation: unmapped, no GPS points available to mappers, quite a few 
well documented GPS traces in wikiloc.


just wondering, is there anything we can do?

MF


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Relation pour places de parking, quel rôle pour les membres ?

[Philippe Verdy]

note: access=no reste valable aux places pour handicapés, même si on
pourrait mettre aussi:
* hsv=yes (véhicules d'urgence et de sécurité: police, médecin,
pompiers, urgence gaz).
* foot=permissive (les piétons peuvent circuler dessus, mais pas y
stationner non plus pour empêcher un véhicule d'handicapé de se
garer); de même ces places ne sont pas des lieux pour déposer les
poubelles ou tout encombrant ou des tables et chaises de terrasses),
* l'arrêt (pas le stationnement) des transport à la demande pour la
descente et la montée d'handicapés titulaire d'une "Carte Mobililité
Handicap" ou européenne ou ancienne carte GIC/GIG ; y compris dans
tout véhicule privé, ce qui est utile pour les handicapés qui ne
peuvent pas conduire et se font raccompagner près de chez eux par
amis, famille ou tout autre transport (y compris taxis privés). Pour y
stationner (sans limitation de durée), il faut que le détenteur de la
carte la laisse visible sur le tableau de bord du véhicule de son
accompagnateur (Voir
https://www.aide-sociale.fr/stationnement-handicape/ à la question "Et
qu’en est-il des accompagnants des personnes handicapées en voiture
?")

Mais pas:
* les livraisons ou déménageurs ou autres travaux (sans autorisation
spéciale par la commune et affichage de l'avis officiel de cette
réservation sur un panneau temporaire)
* l'arrêt des taxis et bus (même publics) hors de la prise en charge
des détenteurs de cartes


Le sam. 22 févr. 2020 à 16:35, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :
>
> Si ce sont des places réservées aux handicapés, le stationnement est interdit 
> à tous (access=no), sauf aux porteurs du macaron (disables=yes me semble 
> bizarre comme tag, ou handicaped=yes)... En général ce ne sont que quelques 
> places mais pas tout le parking qui l'inclut et n'a donc pas access=no.
>
> Ce tagging doit donc concerner uniquement ces places et pas le parking entier 
> (à moins que tout le parking leur soit réservé et que pour les autres il n'y 
> a pas d'accès autorisé, par exemple dans des zones piétonnes ou protégées, où 
> seuls les handicapés et les véhicules d'urgence ont le droit de s'approcher, 
> les autres devront se garer plus loin et marcher !). Et comme on ne va pas 
> créer un parking dans un parking, on ne peut pas mettre de noeud pour ces 
> places, il faudra délimiter un polygone pour les places pour handicapés (mais 
> pas besoin de le mettre en membre d'une relation plus grand pour le parking 
> entier).
>
>
> Le sam. 22 févr. 2020 à 14:48, deuzeffe  a écrit :
>>
>> Le 21/02/2020 à 22:49, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :
>> > Le 21/02/2020 à 21:18, marc marc a écrit :
>> >> inutile en surface (et aucun usage connu)
>> >> fait toi un polygone amenity=parking c'est bien plus simple/utilisé
>> >
>> > OK, fait :
>> >
>> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/775410548
>> >
>> > Du coup j'ai mis access=no + disables=yes pour qualifier l'ensemble.
>>
>> Pourquoi access=no ? Même si le "wiki le dit"
>>
>> Ça me semble un peu exagéré (cf
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access ).
>>
>> D'autres avis ?
>> --
>> deuzeffe - perplexe
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Relation pour places de parking, quel rôle pour les membres ?

[Philippe Verdy]

Si ce sont des places réservées aux handicapés, le stationnement est
interdit à tous (access=no), sauf aux porteurs du macaron (disables=yes me
semble bizarre comme tag, ou handicaped=yes)... En général ce ne sont que
quelques places mais pas tout le parking qui l'inclut et n'a donc pas
access=no.

Ce tagging doit donc concerner uniquement ces places et pas le parking
entier (à moins que tout le parking leur soit réservé et que pour les
autres il n'y a pas d'accès autorisé, par exemple dans des zones piétonnes
ou protégées, où seuls les handicapés et les véhicules d'urgence ont le
droit de s'approcher, les autres devront se garer plus loin et marcher !).
Et comme on ne va pas créer un parking dans un parking, on ne peut pas
mettre de noeud pour ces places, il faudra délimiter un polygone pour les
places pour handicapés (mais pas besoin de le mettre en membre d'une
relation plus grand pour le parking entier).


Le sam. 22 févr. 2020 à 14:48, deuzeffe  a écrit :

> Le 21/02/2020 à 22:49, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :
> > Le 21/02/2020 à 21:18, marc marc a écrit :
> >> inutile en surface (et aucun usage connu)
> >> fait toi un polygone amenity=parking c'est bien plus simple/utilisé
> >
> > OK, fait :
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/775410548
> >
> > Du coup j'ai mis access=no + disables=yes pour qualifier l'ensemble.
>
> Pourquoi access=no ? Même si le "wiki le dit"
>
> Ça me semble un peu exagéré (cf
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access ).
>
> D'autres avis ?
> --
> deuzeffe - perplexe
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Relation pour places de parking, quel rôle pour les membres ?

[deuzeffe]

Le 21/02/2020 à 22:49, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :

Le 21/02/2020 à 21:18, marc marc a écrit :

inutile en surface (et aucun usage connu)
fait toi un polygone amenity=parking c'est bien plus simple/utilisé


OK, fait :

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/775410548

Du coup j'ai mis access=no + disables=yes pour qualifier l'ensemble.


Pourquoi access=no ? Même si le "wiki le dit"

Ça me semble un peu exagéré (cf 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access ).


D'autres avis ?
--
deuzeffe - perplexe




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Re: [Talk-it-trentino] raccolta dei numeri civici in trentino da parte della provincia

[Dario Zontini]

Per dare un idea, ci sono ditte che forniscono un servizio di raccolta
civici ai comuni. La rilevazione avviene sul campo, ma le coordinate dei
civici non vengono prese con i dati del GPS, ma segnano il punto usando
come riferimento le ortofoto

Dario Zontini

Il sab 22 feb 2020, 11:18 Luca Delucchi  ha scritto:

> On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 at 19:00, Maurizio Napolitano 
> wrote:
> >
> > Ciao a tutt*
>
> Ciao Napo,
> mentre ti ascolto ti rispondo
>
> > vi scrivo per informarvi che la Provincia sta concludendo una
> > sperimentazione per gli strumenti di raccolta dei numeri civici in
> > Trentino.
> > La sperimentazione si è concentrata sulĺ'uso di strumenti di alta
> > precisione per la raccolta dei dati via gps attraverso il gps
> > differenziale offerto dalla rete TPOS (
> > http://www.tpos.provincia.tn.it ), assieme a questa sono state
> > valutate altre soluzioni fra cui filedpapers, opendatakit e esri
> > collector.
> > Fra non molto scriverò meglio in merito.
>
> non ci hai più scritto, se non vi muovete a partire rischiate che la
> sperimentazione sia da rifare... gli smartphone stanno migliorando
> molto e con TPOS si possono fare correzioni.
> In settimana farò qualche prova con il mio smartphone
>
> > Mi chiedono quanto i mappers potrebbero essere interessati ad un
> > coinvolgimento o di fare parte di un tavolo di discussione.
>
> io sono sicuramente interessato, soprattutto per il tavolo di discussione
>
> > Buon Natale
> >
> >
> > --
> > Maurizio "Napo" Napolitano
> > http://de.straba.us
> >
>
> --
> ciao
> Luca
>
> www.lucadelu.org
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Vandalisme utilisateur "PARIS SUD", le retour

[pepilepi...@ovh.fr]

Le 20/02/2020 à 21:51, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com a écrit :
> J'ai supprimé plus de la moitié des *sortie* dans les noms de bouches.
>
> Il en reste encore environ 200, c'est pénible mais ça avance.
>
> En espérant que personne ne casse...
>
> Jean-Yvon

Bonjour,

Tu veux pas faire un maproulette pour qu'on puisse t'aider ?


>
>
>
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-- 


Si ma réponse n'a pas résolu ton problème, c'est que tu n'as pas posé la
bonne question.

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[Talk-us] Changes for USA data on Geofabrik Download Server

[Frederik Ramm]

Dear US OSMers,

for historical reasons, the layout of data for the USA on the Geofabrik
download server has always been a bit peculiar: There wasn't a file for
"all of the US" - there was a file for North America (including Canada
and Mexico), and then there were files for the "Census Regions" (US
Midwest, US Norhteast and so on, and for individual states.

(The concrete historical reason is that there used to be a time when due
to TIGER imports the US extract would have been about 95% of the North
America file anyway, and not much would be gained by clipping Canada.
And Mexico was initially not even part of North America on the download
server, due to my own lack of geographic competence.)

I'm in the process of straightening that out, so that there will be the
standard structure (one file for North America, below that a file for
USA and its neighbours, and below that the different states) in the future.

In detail, this will mean the following changes:

(a) for download links (pbf, bz2, diff directories etc)

* North America remains unchanged.
* US states (and Norcal/Socal) remain unchanged.
* new http://download.geofabrik.de/north-america/us-latest.osm.pbf and
ancillary files
* the five census regions (Midwest, Northeast, Pacific, South, West)
will be demoted by one directory from currently
/north-america/us-midwest-latest.osm.pbf to
/north-america/us/us-midwest-latest.osm.pbf - but I will set up
redirects so that the old locations still work for a while.

(b) for HTML pages

* http://download.geofabrik.de/north-america.html will drop the US
states and Census regions and instead list just three sub regions
(Canada, USA, Mexico)
* new http://download.geofabrik.de/north-america/us.html to list US
states and census regions.

I will make these changes incrementally over the coming days. On the
whole, this should cause minimum disruption; the only thing that will
stop working is when someone has written instructions somewhere that go
like "open the North America download page and select Iowa from the
list" but I hope that people would then be able to guess that maybe they
need to click on USA first.

If this has any unintended consequences let me know and we'll find a way
to fix it.

Bye
Frederik

PS: Just like with other countries, the "all of US" file is cut out of
its parent continent file (North America) which means that those bits of
the USA that lie outside North America will not be included. This mainly
affects Puerto Rico. I'll be making a standalone Puerto Rico file
available in the Central America section.

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [talk-cz] MapTiler mapy na OpenStreetMap.cz

[Mikoláš Štrajt]

Ahoj




"
S tím "Edit style" editorem: je to jenom přestrojený Maputnik (který dělal
Lukas Martinelli když byl uý nás na praxi), takže issues jsou zde: https://
github.com/maputnik/editor/issues(https://github.com/maputnik/editor/issues)
Sice tam pořád občasně přispíváme, ale nemáme jej "pod kontrolou", takže za
opravy chyb neručím...



"



tím líp. Můžu si je zkusit opravit sám až budu mít dobrodružnou náladu.


 
"
S tou licencí: co přesně bys chtěl vydat jako open-source? Zdroják ke stylu?
Nebo...? (každopádně, na toto bych se musel zeptat: já právník fakt nejsem).




"



ano, zdroják ke stylu + ikonky, aby ho bylo možné použít ve self-hosted
variantě (proto to taky konec konců portuju na Maptiler - protože je
kompatibilní s OpenMapTiles)


 
"
Ve free verzi máš zdarma rastry i vektory z těch výchozích stylů, co máme
(třeba to zmiňované Topo nebo Streets) + 5 vlastních stylů, ale to jenom ve
vektoru (protože rastrovaní je dost drahá záležitost).
"



to se ptám, protože jsem měl dlouho problém s tím, že se mi na předchozím
domácím počítači nezobrazovaly vektorové mapy (z toho důvodu že jsem měl
nekompatibilní grafiku a ovladače nebo něco na ten způsob a výsledkem bylo,
že mi nejelo WebGL). Zároveň se domnívám, že majitelé některých
šunkovitějších zařízení s tímhle můžou mít problém stále (ale průzkum jsem
si nedělal).




Nicméně tohle jde vyřešit buď tím nejlevnějším plánem (500Kč/měsíc je
rozumná cena i na hobby projekt) případně tím self-hostingem (který se
stejně chci naučit).


 
"
Tady by záleželo, na co bys to měl. Obecně, open-source/open-data komunity
podporujem, třeba brazislké OSM komunitě hostujem data + dáváme jim WMTS
zdarma, protože tam mají nějaké věci na mapování (názvy ulic pokud se
nepletu).
"



OK. Ozval bych se kdyby se mi podařilo vytvořit něco co by bylo užitečné i
pro ostatní.


 
"
Pro vybledlou mapu bych doporučil jako základ Topographique, která je právě
takto koncipovaná.



"



+1


 
"
Jinak hezká mapa, při pohledu na ni jsem si vybavil papírovou mapu "Leipzig"
z roku ~1970.
"



jo, to je přesně ta mapa kterou jsem měl jako hlavní inspiraci


 
"
My teď pracujem na vektorové mapě, která by napodobovala klasickou
švýcarskou kartografii. Ta pravidla, podle které švýcaři tvoří mapy, jsou na
první pohled dost šílená, ale výsledek stojí za to. Zanedlouho bych o tom
měl psát, tak kdyby to někoho zajímalo, najde to do měsíce u nás na blogu.
Zatím posílám první preview.



"



výborně. Budu se těšit.




Těma černými domy mi to připomnělo OpenTopoMap (https://opentopomap.org/#map
=14/47.34371/13.19964) která je předpokládám inspirována stejnou předlohou.





--


Mikoláš Štrajt / Severák





 
"


On 21. 02. 20 12:54, Mikoláš Štrajt wrote:
"
Ahoj,

zkusil jsem do Maptileru naportovat svou starou mapu Metropolis, kterou jsem
původně dal dohromady v Mapboxu.




Viz http://tiles.svita.cz/(http://tiles.svita.cz/) a vrstvu Metropolis na 
openstreetmap.cz (pro tu původní).





Odrazil jsem se od zmíněné Topo mapy a použil jsem nástroj Customize. Trvalo
mi to asi deset minut a vypadá to fakt to fakt dobře (viz přílohy). Dobrá
práce!




Trochu jsem to ještě zkoušel editovat v editoru stylů. To taky šlo celkem
dobře ale narazil jsem na pár otravných věcí (nejde se prokliknout z popupu
vrstvy do její úpravy), jednu chybu (když z něčeho udělám čárkovanou čáru,
tak už to nejde vrátit do stavu, kdy není čárkovaná) a jednu záhadu (jak se
sakra zařadí nová vrstva do stávající skupiny?). Takže bych k editoru měl
ještě nějakou zpětnou vazbu. Kam s ní? Já osobně bych tohle možná spíš
rovnou psal do tiketů toho editoru (pokud něco takového je veřejně
dostupné).




Jinak chápu to správně, že ve free verzi Maptileru jsou jen vektorové
dlaždice a když chci rastrové, tak si musím zaplatit vyšší plán?




Na závěr mám otázku ohledně licence: Můžu takhle upravenou/přebarvenou mapu
zveřejnit jako open source? Co vím o autorských právech na mapy tak tuším,
že tohle je trochu shady, tak se radši ptám...





Každopádně finální verze téhle mapy bude určitě open source projekt, tak si
mě můžete připsat mezi open source projekty, které podporujete. :-D





* * *




Jinak kdyby se někdo divil co má být tahle mapa zač, vycházel jsem z
následujících principů:




- napodobuju barevné schéma starých map (včetně toho, že mám omezenou
paletu)

- barvy jsou hodně syté (což je pak dobře čitelné na vysvícených displejích,
při nekvalitním tisku atd - tohle o moderních mapách nejde vždycky říct, že
Google mapo!)

- tématické zaměření je pěší turistika (proto mám odladěný vzhled někdy od
zoomu 13 níže)  a to ve městě i mimo město

- vzhledem k tomu, že má mapa syté barvy není vhodná jako podklad pro
vizualizace. Do budoucna bych rád udělal ještě "vybledlou variantu" pro
tento účel, ale to zatím není priorita.





--


Mikoláš Štrajt / Severák


http://severak.svita.cz/(http://severak.svita.cz/)




-- Původní e-mail --
Od: xkomc...@centrum.cz(mailto:xkomc...@centrum.cz) 

Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?

[Mateusz Konieczny via talk]

22 Feb 2020, 10:37 by si...@poole.ch:

>
> From a pedagogic point of view I would consider that suboptimal,  no to 
> mention that it would be endless.
>
>
I expect that endless part may be
solved by generating it automatically
from iD and Vespucci presets.
>
> For anybody that is going to contribute more than once (and iDs  tutorial 
> does a good job of guiding through that), we want them to  learn the 
> basic concepts of OSM and enable them to extend that to  new situations.
>
>
It is intended to be tutorial for the first edit.

I remember that I was quite confused 
during making first edits.
>
> That is different from a guided contribution model, say for  example with 
> > https://osmybiz.osm.ch/ >  
> which is preferable for people that don't want to contribute to  OSM in 
> general but just want to add and maintain a specific  object.
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Re: [Talk-it-trentino] raccolta dei numeri civici in trentino da parte della provincia

[Luca Delucchi]

On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 at 19:00, Maurizio Napolitano  wrote:
>
> Ciao a tutt*

Ciao Napo,
mentre ti ascolto ti rispondo

> vi scrivo per informarvi che la Provincia sta concludendo una
> sperimentazione per gli strumenti di raccolta dei numeri civici in
> Trentino.
> La sperimentazione si è concentrata sulĺ'uso di strumenti di alta
> precisione per la raccolta dei dati via gps attraverso il gps
> differenziale offerto dalla rete TPOS (
> http://www.tpos.provincia.tn.it ), assieme a questa sono state
> valutate altre soluzioni fra cui filedpapers, opendatakit e esri
> collector.
> Fra non molto scriverò meglio in merito.

non ci hai più scritto, se non vi muovete a partire rischiate che la
sperimentazione sia da rifare... gli smartphone stanno migliorando
molto e con TPOS si possono fare correzioni.
In settimana farò qualche prova con il mio smartphone

> Mi chiedono quanto i mappers potrebbero essere interessati ad un
> coinvolgimento o di fare parte di un tavolo di discussione.

io sono sicuramente interessato, soprattutto per il tavolo di discussione

> Buon Natale
>
>
> --
> Maurizio "Napo" Napolitano
> http://de.straba.us
>

-- 
ciao
Luca

www.lucadelu.org

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Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?

[Simon Poole]

From a pedagogic point of view I would consider that suboptimal, no to
mention that it would be endless.

For anybody that is going to contribute more than once (and iDs tutorial
does a good job of guiding through that), we want them to learn the
basic concepts of OSM and enable them to extend that to new situations.

That is different from a guided contribution model, say for example with
https://osmybiz.osm.ch/ 
which is preferable for people that don't want to contribute to OSM in
general but just want to add and maintain a specific object.

Simon

Am 22.02.2020 um 05:37 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk:
> Is there some automatically generated website
> describing in excruciating detail how to map various features?
>
> Something directed to a potential mappers,
> explicitly describing every single smallest step,
> for every single mappable feature.
>
> I ask as I had again a friend asking me
> "how to add aconstruction area/path/... to OSM".
>
> And it seems to me that automatically generated
> set of such tutorials is both feasible and potentially useful.
>
> ___
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Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?

[Yves]

I tried to do that from a corner case: begginer guide for cross-country skier:
http://www.opensnowmap.org/iframes/how-to-fra.html
It reminds me I still have to translate it in English.
This is not exactly what you are looking for, but it can give some ideas.
Yves 

Le 22 février 2020 09:23:35 GMT+01:00, Mateusz Konieczny via talk 
 a écrit :
>
>
>
>22 Feb 2020, 08:09 by r...@technomancy.org:
>
>> Isn't this the job of the editing software (incl it's presets)? If
>there's a search box and the user can type in (eg) "path" and draw the
>path, then that's how you teach newbies? 
>>
>Yes, but complete newbie needs to
>be taught this steps.
>
>It is not obvious.
>
>And for mobile editing one needs 
>instructions for Vespucci that is a bit
>less obvious.
>>
>> Has this user tried to use iD (the best new user friendly editor
>today) to do this? Does that do the job? If not, I'm sure everyone,
>incl id devs, would like to know.  
>>
>No, he was unaware that it can be done this way and that it is
>relatively simple.
>(I hope that it is relatively simple)
>>
>> On 22 February 2020 05:37:13 CET, Mateusz Konieczny via talk
> wrote:
>>
>>> Is there some automatically generated website 
>>> describing in excruciating detail how to map various features?
>>>
>>> Something directed to a potential mappers, 
>>> explicitly describing every single smallest step,
>>> for every single mappable feature.
>>>
>>> I ask as I had again a friend asking me 
>>> "how to add aconstruction area/path/... to OSM".
>>>
>>> And it seems to me that automatically generated 
>>> set of such tutorials is both feasible and potentially useful.
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?

[Mateusz Konieczny via talk]

22 Feb 2020, 08:09 by r...@technomancy.org:

> Isn't this the job of the editing software (incl it's presets)? If there's a 
> search box and the user can type in (eg) "path" and draw the path, then 
> that's how you teach newbies? 
>
Yes, but complete newbie needs to
be taught this steps.

It is not obvious.

And for mobile editing one needs 
instructions for Vespucci that is a bit
less obvious.
>
> Has this user tried to use iD (the best new user friendly editor today) to do 
> this? Does that do the job? If not, I'm sure everyone, incl id devs, would 
> like to know.  
>
No, he was unaware that it can be done this way and that it is relatively 
simple.
(I hope that it is relatively simple)
>
> On 22 February 2020 05:37:13 CET, Mateusz Konieczny via talk 
>  wrote:
>
>> Is there some automatically generated website 
>> describing in excruciating detail how to map various features?
>>
>> Something directed to a potential mappers, 
>> explicitly describing every single smallest step,
>> for every single mappable feature.
>>
>> I ask as I had again a friend asking me 
>> "how to add aconstruction area/path/... to OSM".
>>
>> And it seems to me that automatically generated 
>> set of such tutorials is both feasible and potentially useful.
>>
>
> -- 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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