Re: [OSM-talk] StateOTMap 2015 video is "private"

[Michał Brzozowski]

> but apparently changing them en masse would spam the
channel's followers with notifications. (

Are you sure? If you upload a video (which in many contexts works like
making it public) you can choose not to notify the subscribers.
I found this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/youtube/comments/9qgg9u/any_way_to_publicate_an_unlisted_video_without/


Michał

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 10:47 PM Minh Nguyen 
wrote:

> Vào lúc 08:18 2022-11-24, Andy Mabbett đã viết:
> > I've just been told that the video of my 2015 SotM talk:
> >
> > https://2015.stateofthemap.us/wikidata-for-mappers
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6pnDQcrtwQ
> >
> > will not play, being listed as "Private".
> >
> > Does anyone know why, and who can unlock it?
> >
> > Other talks, such as:
> >
> >  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8PVx0oudnA
> >
> > seem fine.
>
> Hi Andy, we're not sure what happened, but at some point the access
> setting for nearly all the SotMUS 2015 videos got changed to private.
> We've been changing it back to public for individual videos as we hear
> about them, but apparently changing them en masse would spam the
> channel's followers with notifications. (These videos are all wonderful,
> but not all of them are evergreen!)
>
> I'll follow up with our staff and hope to get your video sorted out
> shortly. Sorry for the inconvenience!
>
> --
> Minh Nguyen
> President, OpenStreetMap U.S. Board of Directors
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Your experience in reaching out to Maps.me users ?

[Michał Brzozowski]

Hi Brian, the comment was probably made into an OSM Note. Check Notes on
that OSM user page.

Greetings
Michał

czw., 12 lis 2020, 17:56 użytkownik Brian M. Sperlongano <
zelonew...@gmail.com> napisał:

> I downloaded and made a test edit (adding an address to a local POI) with
> maps.me just now to understand how it works.  It does at least make you
> log in to OSM.  I entered in a comment on the change, however, I note that
> maps.me overwrote my user-entered comment with a generic comment in the
> changeset.
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 10:27 AM Stephan Knauss 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> On 12.11.2020 10:55, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:
>> > Is it just me or are Maps.me Openstreetmap contributors unaware of
>> > Openstreetmap messages ? Does anyone here have seen Maps.me
>> > Openstreetmap contributors answer to Openstreetmap messages ?
>>
>> I share your experience. Typical maps.me edits are of low quality and
>> frequently show a misuse of tags, certainly not following to our
>> community standards.
>>
>> I have a very low response rate on comments. Probaly one out of hundred
>> responds. And I have not seen them going back to fix their edits ever.
>>
>> I think OSM API should block edits until email address is confirmed.
>> And probably re-check the response to emails once a year or switch the
>> account into read-only mode.
>> Participating in changeset discussions or using osm messaging could
>> reset that counter as well.
>>
>> Stephan
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Your experience in reaching out to Maps.me users ?

[Michał Brzozowski]

Hi, good question.

Keep in mind that:
- OSM notifications go to Notifications in Gmail which does not normally
make a system notification sound on Android, you have to look there.
Although I may be wrong here,  some of emails in this folder (that Gmail
deems important) do notify the user loudly.
- it's hard to log in on mobile on osm.org if you don't know how, in fact
mobile interface is barely usable beyond browsing the map (lacks
affordances)
- the e-mail notifications about changeset comments do not have either a
definitive "call to action" nor any explanation what to do (or a link to
Wiki page with such)

Sometimes you can send a private message with a phone number, I had once
success with it, though this works only inside your country due to high
international calling/SMS rates - and if you are willing to give your
number.

Greetings

czw., 12 lis 2020, 11:00 użytkownik Jean-Marc Liotier 
napisał:

> A contributor blankets Bamako with office=government nodes named in all
> caps - a sad situation, especially considering how much effort he puts
> into wrongly tagging valid POI (details, in French:
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ml/2020-November/000254.html).
>
> Changeset comment and Openstreetmap messages do not elicit answers from
> him.
>
> Is it just me or are Maps.me Openstreetmap contributors unaware of
> Openstreetmap messages ? Does anyone here have seen Maps.me
> Openstreetmap contributors answer to Openstreetmap messages ?
>
> I opened a Maps.me wishlist issue requesting Maps.me to notify their
> contributing users of pending Openstreetmap mail - the way JOSM does it:
> https://github.com/mapsme/omim/issues/13951
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Website showing what was just edited

[Michał Brzozowski]

It was called Show me the Way ( https://osmlab.github.io/show-me-the-way/ ).

Greetings

Michał

wt., 15 wrz 2020, 21:11 użytkownik Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
talk@openstreetmap.org> napisał:

> I remember website showing what
> was just edited in OpenStreetMap.
>
> I was unable to find it.
>
> Is it still up?
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[OSM-talk] Examples of good paid mapping?

[Michał Brzozowski]

Hi all,
Do we have any examples of companies that do paid mapping (preferably at
scale) and do it right?
Maybe leading by example will help other mapping teams get along better
with local OSM communities?

Michał
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Re: [OSM-talk] Editing wiki asks for confirmation code?

[Michał Brzozowski]

Hi Skyler,
You can use any image hosting site to upload the image, and then post a
link here.
For instance: https://imgur.com/upload
Michał

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 6:50 AM Skyler Hawthorne  wrote:

> I tried to post a screenshot, but the mailing list has a max size of 40
> KB,
> which seems very small.
>
> I am on a OnePlus 7T with OxygenOS 10.0.11.HD65AA. I've tried a couple of
> pages by clicking the pencil button, making my changes, and then hitting
> the Save button. This is when the text box appears that says "Confirmation
> Code."
>
> The same thing happens on both Firefox and Chrome.
> --
> Skyler
>
> On July 25, 2020 00:12:45 Skyler Hawthorne  wrote:
>
> > Hi, I'm posting here because I'm not sure where would be more
> appropriate.
> >
> > When I try to edit a wiki page, after I get to the preview page and
> enter a
> > description of the change, a text box pops up that just says
> "confirmation
> > code". I don't know if I'm supposed to get an email with a code or
> > something, but I never get one.
> >
> > What does it want?
> > --
> > Skyler
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [OSM-talk] Anonymous comments on notes now disabled

[Michał Brzozowski]

Hi,

It seems a reasonable option, but we better make sure that users are aware
they need to log in! For now judging from the patch I don't see any new
messages, but I stand to be corrected.

Another thing on top of my head - having commented/fixed many MAPS.ME
notes, it seems that people using maps.me have a hard time logging in -
even though they have an account!
My "conspiracy theory" is they receive an e-mail on a smartphone and then
the rather suboptimal mobile UX of osm.org doesn't help them log in.

Another part of the theory trying to explain their overall low response
rate is their Gmail puts it in "Notifications" category (which without
explicit setting won't make a push message). They're somehow conditioned to
ignore it.

Michał

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 11:49 PM Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> after two years of discussing the pros and cons, a decision has now been
> reached to disallow anonymous comments on notes.
>
> Up until two days ago, anonymous (i.e. not logged-in) users could create
> notes and comment on existing notes; the only thing they could not do
> was close a note.
>
> Now, anonymous users can *still* create notes, but they cannot comment
> on or close existing notes.
>
> In the long discussions leading up to this decision (see
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1543 and
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/1926) we
> agreed that anonymous comments on notes are rarely useful, and when they
> are, they come mostly from users who have just forgotten to log in. This
> was weighed against recent massive spam and vandalism activities which
> rendered the notes system near unusuable in some regions. Perversely, it
> is much easier to fight a vandal creating new, useless notes (by just
> closing them) than it is to clean up their droppings from existing notes.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Documenting controversial iD decisions

[Michał Brzozowski]

That's a good point, let's make a list about MAPS.ME.

In the countries where there's a community to fix the mess it's not that
bad, but elsewhere like the Middle East...

- Limited set of available POI types to add and no choice for "not on the
list". Like people adding amenity=motorcycle_parking and naming it "car
parking"
-  Making multiple "this place is gone or has never existed" each time user
taps that button - many people report stuff after each map update if it's
not fixed.
- Huge changeset bboxes
- No option to properly add addr:place
- Users led into adding notes and then uploading the exact same POIs
themselves, but not closing the note
- Very complicated if not impossible to add generic notes. A few days ago
one mapper added a note about a missing road that as a "filler" had a
office=ngo named "Road" Then maps.me added this junk POI to the map...

Unlike iD, most of these seem to be an oversight. But I filed tickets at
b...@maps.me that were acknowledged over a year ago and nothing really was
fixed. So this doing nothing is controversial to me, especially if it's a
simple fix for many of the above.

I feel bad explaining to its mostly well meaning users that maps.me is not
a great editor. For many, maps.me *is* OSM, or much worse, it is not and
they are not aware of it.

To be fair, there is one thing that's less common - users adding personal
bookmarks as POIs. I guess the percentage of maps.me mappers doing this has
converged to the amount of people who are intrinsically bad at technology
and/or reading comprehension, as there is now a warning at one stage that
everyone will see your edits.

Michał

śr., 29 maj 2019, 02:13 użytkownik Clifford Snow 
napisał:

> Why should one editor be held to higher standards than others? Shouldn't
> they all be held to the same standard?
>
> On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 4:53 PM john whelan  wrote:
>
>> The problem with iD is the fact that it is the default editor on the web
>> page of the website which implies that everything is OpenStreetMap approved
>> which unfortunately is not the case.
>>
>> If it's placed as the default editor then I think it needs to be held to
>> a higher standard or some sort of change management system implemented.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> On Tue, May 28, 2019, 7:47 PM Clifford Snow, 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Michael,
>>> Don't you think to be fair that you should include all outside projects,
>>> such as JOSM, Potlatch, CartoCSS, etc? None of them are controlled by OSMF
>>> as far as I know. To just look at one software project seems like we
>>> already reached a decision, we just need the data to back it up.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Clifford
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 3:47 PM Michael Reichert 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 I started documenting controversial decisions by the maintainers of iD
 at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ID/Controversial_Decisions

 Currently, only the highway=footway and the nonsquare=yes issue are
 mentioned.

 Please feel free to add other issues which have proofed controversial so
 far. Don't forget to summarise the opinion of the maintainer as well to
 aim at least some neutrality as far as it is possible for those involved
 in the disputes. Please add links to relevant discussions as well.

 Best regards

 Michael


 --
 Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
 ausgenommen)
 I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)

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>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> www.snowandsnow.us
>>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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>>
>
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[Talk-it] Your experience with Wikimedia Italia being a local OSMF chapter

[Michał Brzozowski]

Hi to all Italian mappers,

The Polish OpenStreetMap Association is on the verge of dissolution due to
lack of enough people at the last annual general meeting to run for the
board and the revision commission.

Depending on what the next general meeting will vote for in the January and
what the attendance will be, one of the likely outcomes is dissolution and
transfer of the assets (web domain and funds) to Wikimedia Polska.

As Wikimedia Italia is a local chapter of the OSMF, I'd like to ask you a
few things that hopefully will inform the discussion of our Polish
community and if the dissolution-transfer occurs, could give WMPL an idea
what to go with or improve on.

- How many members of WMIT are actively interested in OSM or joined because
of OSM?

- What part of expenses is related to OSM?

- What types of OSM-related activities does the WMIT organize, finance or
promote? E.g. do you organize conferences, smaller meetings (like mapping
parties), distribute promotional material, run servers (for maps, QA) and
so on?

- Is there demand among companies and government institutions to have some
tangible entity they can talk to about OSM? (In Poland certainly there is.)

- How do the members interested in OSM organize within WMIT? What is the
level of autonomy if any or necessary at all?

- Do you form strategic or one-off partnerships related to OSM with outside
entities?

NB: to be clear, I am not writing this in official capacity.

Greetings,
Michał Brzozowski
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/RicoElectrico
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[OSM-talk] Generic Tasking Manager instances

[Michał Brzozowski]

Hi all,
from all the instances of OSM Tasking Manager, are there ones which
- won't close in foreseeable future
- won't mind hosting generic tasks (not related to specific cause/region)?
So, in essence, kind of like MapCraft, but with all the benefits of TM -
including, but not limited to, automatic grid generation and grid square
splitting.

Michał
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Re: [OSM-talk] About OSM social implications and what can/should be displayed on the map (or not)

[Michał Brzozowski]

Do keep in mind that none of the maintainers opposed (as far as I can see).
The comments are essentially from random people who may or may not be
closely involved in the project.

Michał

pt., 29 cze 2018, 17:30 użytkownik Carlos Cámara 
napisał:

> Dear all,
>
> After participating in this openstreetmap-carto issue
> 
> discussing to create an icon for casinos in which I stated that they should
> not be highlighted with an icon due to their grave consequences derived
> from gambling addiction (there are plenty of scientific literature about
> it), I was pointed out that OSM does not take "any ethical stance and
> display the world as it is."
>
> It is for that reason that I want to raise that particular topic to OSM
> community:
> Is that true? and if so, should it be that way?
>
> Long story short: although I am aware that it is a sensible and polemic
> issue, I think that such position does not make much sense in a project
> like OSM as I believe that OSM has a great social responsibility and
> opportunity as well. It is for that reason that we could be much more aware
> and sensitive to those matters and act accordingly.
>
> My reasons for such statement are the following ones:
>
> First: Any map is also a political act in terms that the mappers decide
> which information is displayed and which one is not, but also in the way we
> represent countries in terms of size and position (spoiler alert: countries
> are not like we represent them on the maps, and definitely are far
> different from the common web-mercator projection -more about that on this
> Wikipedia article  or, if
> even in this chapter of West Wing TV series
> ). This is to say that it is
> impossible to represent reality as it is due to the fact that it is
> impossible to project the Earth onto a flat surface without
> errors/distortions.  OSM is no exception to that and, as such, it has a
> cultural and techno-political perspective/bias even if we are not aware of
> that. We should not forget about that (and leads us to the following point).
>
> Second: The very foundations of OSM as a project are techno-political in
> terms that it was created to overcome the lack of certain geographical
> information about certain areas or topics. This is even more obvious in
> HOSM or the not-at-all-accidental use of open licenses from its very
> beginning.
>
> Third: by creating the map the way we love, we are also creating the world
> as we would love to live in. Since most of OSM contributors decide to share
> their free time with other mappers around the world in making the best
> possible map, we could infer (yes, I acknowledge certain bias here which
> would require much more research) that we would love to live in a world
> where sharing was considered as a positive value and change-driver for a
> better world which also promoted other positive values such as openness to
> information, collaboration, inclusiveness, communication and discussion
> (which, surprise, are OSM's pillars). Following that reasoning, I believe
> that OSM should set the grounds for a world aligned with their values by
> acting accordingly. It is doing so anyway, so why not to take some time to
> reflect on that instead of avoiding discussion based on the illusion that
> we are not taking part in this?
>
> Fourth: OSM has a complexity that makes it difficult for newcomers to
> wholly understand it (let alone to get involved). Part of these
> difficulties lie in the fact that OSM is, in fact, a complex ecosystem
> formed by a spatial database, a community, a map (or better, a series of
> maps), 3rd party apps... that cannot be appreciated at first sight, since
> many newcomers' first contact with OSM is the openstreetmap.org which, in
> fact, is even more complex than that as it is in turn based in several
> components such as nominatim, javascript libraries or renders such as
> carto, transport, HOSM...  What most of these people see there (and what
> they are likely looking for) is a map "similar to Google maps" yet
> different. This is to say that openstreetmap-carto is OSM's business card,
> which should serve as an entry point to the project to people from many
> conditions and hence, we have a responsibility in deciding what do we
> display and how we do it (I'm sure we are all more or less aware of that
> and there are great efforts and success in making it a great default
> renderer -I honestly love how fast it has improved in recent time).
>
> Unfortunately, even if someone completely agreed with all those points, I
> have to acknowledge that there is not a single and non-controversial
> position that can be taken from them. Even if we agreed with the fact that
> we have a social responsibility, several questions arise: Which are those
> polemic features that we are talking about? and, what should we do with
> 

Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto design

[Michał Brzozowski]

Rendering (unpaved) surface is a real need. Judging from the map notes
users don't get the distinction and conflate track symbol with unpaved.
Mappers do it too.

In Poland (and maybe somewhere else) wrongly tagged tracks (what should be
residential+unpaved) are a big problem, almost intractable in scale. We
have more tracks by length than any other highway type.

The road pattern was a solution conceived AFAIR because we have tons of
other decorations in place. Tunnels, embankments, and so on.

If we can develop alternative solution to render unpaved roads, that's fine
too.

pt., 29 cze 2018, 12:00 użytkownik Paul Norman  napisał:

> I've been involved in OpenStreetMap Carto less and less, partially
> because I work with CartoCSS setups enough for work.
>
>
> On 2018-06-29 2:06 AM, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> > And you are wrong that "nobody seems to be even noticing" complexity of
> > the roads code.  At least Lucas, Paul and me have a very good idea
> > about this.  And the unpaved roads rendering is not the problem here,
> > the problem is the complexity of roads rendering in general.
>
> I had a go at fixing the roads code with
> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/2869, but
> didn't have free time. Based on that work, I'd estimate that the roads
> code is twice the size and complexity of what it needs to be.
>
> With the surface code merged, I would be unwilling to tackle a cleanup
> like that. I like the surface code as a technical demo, but find it's
> too much complexity for the style in a part of the style which is
> already difficult to understand.
>
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[OSM-talk] QA bots commenting on changesets - your thoughts?

[Michał Brzozowski]

There's a bot in Poland that comments on changesets which break addresses
(e.g. combining addr:place with addr:street), along with an explanation and
links to forum topic.

What do you think about it? Are such bots useful or not?

Michał
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM SPAM detector

[Michał Brzozowski]

Could we use something similar to detect generic vandalism by training on
reverted changesets? Many of them have "this changeset was reverted fully
or in part..." comments. Also, analyzing object history or detecting
created_by=reverter;JOSM * would give you more examples to train on.

* Unfortunately this persists for the whole JOSM session, so there will be
some false positives.

Michał

5 mar 2018 15:09 "Jason Remillard"  napisał(a):

> Hi,
>
> This weekend I put together a SPAM detector for OSM changesets.
>
> https://github.com/jremillard/osm-changeset-classification
>
> You don't need to be a developer to contribute, send over any SPAM'y
> changesets you come across via a github issue, a pull request, or even an
> email to me. I just need the changeset id.
>
> The code is currently hitting 99+% accuracy detecting the difference
> between 1500 random normal edits and 1500 sketchy changesets that Fredrick
> shared with the talk-us last last week. This is with zero tuning, so it
> looks like it will work well.
>
> Jason
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] "The Future of Free and Open-Source Maps" Slashdot.org , Saturday February 17, 2018

[Michał Brzozowski]

The emacsen's blog post is spot on. I see it as a call for change from a
person who genuinely cares about OSM, not a bitter rant.

When you say A and the world says B, it maybe well worth considering that B
is the way to go.

I think many other people share his views, but were afraid to voice it,
just because of being told "that's the way we do things".

Sure we can't have all of what he outlined, but doing even half of it would
really benefit us.  What was sufficient in 2008 may need to be adjusted in
2018.

The great challenge is not of technical, but rather political nature.

I see hope in local communities. They bridged the gap with their tools,
maps and promotion efforts. But this doesn't mean OSMF has to slack off. If
only more of talented and, most importantly, motivated people from local
chapters would want to drive OSMF forward...

Changing your mission statement is not acknowledging you were wrong. It's
acknowledging the world has changed or maybe has different needs.

All in all it's not about blaming each other, but working towards our
common goal of mapping the world freely.

Michało

17.02.2018 11:03 AM "Oleksiy Muzalyev" 
napisał(a):

> This article is on the front page of the Slashdot today:
>
> Fri 16 February 2018 "Why OpenStreetMap is in Serious Trouble"
>
> https://blog.emacsen.net/blog/2018/02/16/osm-is-in-trouble/
>
>
> "The Future of Free and Open-Source Maps"
>
> https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/02/16/2216228/the-future-
> of-free-and-open-source-maps
>
>
> I actually read the article, and though it has got insightful information
> and interesting ideas, I have doubts about some suggestions.
>
> For instance, reviews. I hope it will not come to what there is at some
> commercial maps, when one adds say a building and then has to wait for a
> month that an almighty moderator approves it, so that it appears on the map.
>
> I also skeptical of massive imports from governments' databases. These
> databases were created in the last century, with outdated tools, sometimes
> by disinterested underpaid clerks, probably in a climate of secrecy of that
> era. And such an import may replace the quality data from modern satellite
> imagery, GPS traces, surveys, etc.
>
> Best regards,
>
> O.
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] how one may detect notes closed by people who made less than 10 edits on this account?

[Michał Brzozowski]

I, being a lazy person, took ChangesetMD and modified it to import OSM
notes into a pgsql  database. I called it, well, NoteMD ;-) [1]
Other than that, I hacked ChangesetMD [2] to add some small "epsilon" to
changeset bboxes if they're zero height/width so that PostGIS doesn't
complain about invalid geometries.
One can easily import each of these into a single DB and make mashups of
these two datasets.

[1] https://github.com/RicoElectrico/NoteMD
[2] https://github.com/RicoElectrico/ChangesetMD

Michał

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 9:06 PM, Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

>  Is there some existing tool to query note activity (especially
>  closing) by user with low edit count?
>
> I noticed a vandal creating multiple accounts*, all with 0 edits
> and closing random valid notes (or at least closing without
> explanation notes that seemed to not be clearly invalid).
>
> I undid it in cases of two accounts that closed also my notes but I
> expect problem to be more widespread.
>
> *maybe accounts that I encountered were unrelated but given very close
> timing, similar area and that this is highly unusual activity I suspect
> a single person.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] How to teach novices about optimal changeset size?

[Michał Brzozowski]

Certainly I am not intending to change the community and require every
mapper to comply. If you're an experienced mapper, you're fine.

I mean new users, who are not yet integrated with the community. Their work
should be checked thoroughly (in Achavi, osmcha...). All novices make
mistakes, after all. Better to give them good habits. By extension, smaller
number of changeset will lead to less recycling of same changeset comments.

I made this thread because I found it difficult to convey what is best
practice in short form in changeset comments.

Maybe I should simplify things when explaining to them? No need to tell all
the conventions, just what is a good start - but hoping it won't backfire ;)

17.01.2018 3:35 PM "Imre Samu" <pella.s...@gmail.com> napisał(a):

>  one changeset per building, repeated 20 times

my typical use case:   House numbering on the street:  push the numbers &
forget & go to the next house( fast feedback loop vs. Delayed
gratification  )
- sometimes the mobil app is crashing, and I don't want to go back 100m to
re-enter - the last 5-10 numbers


> Obviously this makes them PITA to review quickly in Achavi or whatever
tool you use.

imho: it is easier to group the changeset on the reviewer side :  by user +
by hour   ( group by user, hour )   than change the community.

Imre





2018-01-17 15:13 GMT+01:00 Michał Brzozowski <www.ha...@gmail.com>:

> Certainly not:
> - one changeset per building, repeated 20 times
> - one changeset for 3 POIs that are 1000 km apart in different countries
>
> These are real world examples. In the latter Achavi can often refuse to
> run.
>
> That's also why I asked ;-) It's not that easy to formulate the answer
> what is reasonable to include in a changeset.
>
> Michał
>
> 17.01.2018 2:54 PM "Tobias Zwick" <o...@westnordost.de> napisał(a):
>
>> So, what is the optimal changeset size, and why?
>>
>> Tobias
>>
>> On 17/01/2018 14:26, Michał Brzozowski wrote:
>> > Many new users have a habit of e.g. sending one or few objects per
>> > changeset, resulting in a dozen or even more changesets per day.
>> > Obviously this makes them PITA to review quickly in Achavi or whatever
>> > tool you use.
>> >
>> > This habit is probably caused by non-knowledge of how auto-save works in
>> > iD (which makes the work reasonably secure), as well as just not knowing
>> > better thus forming their own judgement.
>> >
>> > How should we teach about optimal changeset size? This is quite tricky -
>> > how we would define it?
>> >
>> > Can the iD nudge users towards better practice? (Linking to Good
>> > changeset comments wiki page would be useful as well)
>> >
>> > Michał
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
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>> > talk@openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> >
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] How to teach novices about optimal changeset size?

[Michał Brzozowski]

Certainly not:
- one changeset per building, repeated 20 times
- one changeset for 3 POIs that are 1000 km apart in different countries

These are real world examples. In the latter Achavi can often refuse to run.

That's also why I asked ;-) It's not that easy to formulate the answer what
is reasonable to include in a changeset.

Michał

17.01.2018 2:54 PM "Tobias Zwick" <o...@westnordost.de> napisał(a):

> So, what is the optimal changeset size, and why?
>
> Tobias
>
> On 17/01/2018 14:26, Michał Brzozowski wrote:
> > Many new users have a habit of e.g. sending one or few objects per
> > changeset, resulting in a dozen or even more changesets per day.
> > Obviously this makes them PITA to review quickly in Achavi or whatever
> > tool you use.
> >
> > This habit is probably caused by non-knowledge of how auto-save works in
> > iD (which makes the work reasonably secure), as well as just not knowing
> > better thus forming their own judgement.
> >
> > How should we teach about optimal changeset size? This is quite tricky -
> > how we would define it?
> >
> > Can the iD nudge users towards better practice? (Linking to Good
> > changeset comments wiki page would be useful as well)
> >
> > Michał
> >
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
>
>
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[OSM-talk] How to teach novices about optimal changeset size?

[Michał Brzozowski]

Many new users have a habit of e.g. sending one or few objects per
changeset, resulting in a dozen or even more changesets per day. Obviously
this makes them PITA to review quickly in Achavi or whatever tool you use.

This habit is probably caused by non-knowledge of how auto-save works in iD
(which makes the work reasonably secure), as well as just not knowing
better thus forming their own judgement.

How should we teach about optimal changeset size? This is quite tricky -
how we would define it?

Can the iD nudge users towards better practice? (Linking to Good changeset
comments wiki page would be useful as well)

Michał
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Re: [OSM-talk] Tool for tag tracking

[Michał Brzozowski]

I second the question. A marriage of Google Alerts and overpass turbo would
be great for tracking tags that e.g. shouldn't exist in given country (or
are suspicious). Or just plain QA in which overpass is quite powerful.

Michał

11.01.2018 9:57 AM "Javier Sánchez Portero" 
napisał(a):

> Hello
>
> I can't find a Quality Assurace tool to track additions of objects with a
> specific tag in an area.
>
> I know I can do it with a local updated instance of the database, but I'm
> looking for a accesible way for a non programer.
>
> Does anyone know any?
>
> Thank you in advance,
> Javier
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Streak: edit the map every day

[Michał Brzozowski]

I have been misunderstood! :) I am not one of Polimappers, I just stumbled
across it on the Wiki calendar. So we have 3 independent entities inventing
a similar idea.
My "challenge" is only now in development on Etherpad, time will tell if I
will ever get to finish it, maybe some other member of Polish community
will help me.

On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 11:19 PM, Ilya Zverev <i...@zverev.info> wrote:

> Wow, that is an awesome project! I envy you students for having such
> unusual OSM activities :) And thanks to you, now I know about the
> backrest=* tag. Everyone here could benefit from it.
>
> Can you write a blog post about the PoliMappers' Adventures? Maybe it
> could get published on blog.osm.org — CWG would decide that.
>
> Also, I'd format the wiki page to have the current quest in big letters at
> the top, maybe with a picture. That way people returning to it won't have
> to scroll down to find the next quest. You don't need any software for this
> adventure.
>
> The OSM Streak project is a bit different: it is automatic, and it doesn't
> make you learn much. The goal was to have a five-minute task for a day, so
> you don't have to plan your mapping. Just start an editor, click around for
> a minute, upload. Otherwise you'd get tired after a month or two.
>
> The source code is published on github: https://github.com/Zverik/osms
> treak
>
> Ilya
>
> 04.12.2017 00:46, Michał Brzozowski пишет:
>
>> Incidentally, that's what I envisioned, as well as did Polimappers [1].
>> Great minds think alike - all in a short period ;) But unlike me you
>> actually delivered, with software to support it.
>>
>> I planned to have 30 or more challenges in some succession, not limited
>> to mapping, but also showing the OSM ecosystem (like mapper communication,
>> notes/change inspection/QA). So basically creating a competent mapper with
>> "learning by doing".
>>
>> Is the source available somewhere?
>>
>> Michał
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/PoliMappers/Adventures
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Ilya Zverev <i...@zverev.info > i...@zverev.info>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am Ilya and I have been uploading changesets 15 days in a row. Not
>> because I'm so into it or somebody makes me: I've made a tool that
>> reminds me to do it. In a year I expect my HDYC activity chart to be
>> completely filled. And you can have the same too.
>>
>> Introducing OSM Streak: a website that gives you points for
>> submitting changesets each day:
>>
>> http://streak.osmz.ru/
>>
>> You get 1 point for the first changeset, and then you get more: for
>> example, I will receive 4 points for my next changeset tomorrow. And
>> that is not all: it gives you a random task each day, so you don't
>> stare at the map trying to come up with an idea. For completing a
>> task, you get an extra point. And when you map many days in a row,
>> you gain levels, which open more tasks.
>>
>> Forgetting to visit a website is expectable, so OSM Streak is also a
>> Telegram bot (find the link on the "Connect" page). With the bot,
>> you can forget about the website: it accepts changesets and sends
>> you tasks every day. Alternatively, you can subscribe to e-mail
>> notifications, which will be sent on 1:00 UTC.
>>
>> All the tasks and the website and the bot can (and should!) be
>> translated into your language. We have English and Russian, and I
>> would be very grateful for more translations:
>>
>> https://www.transifex.com/openstreetmap/osm-streak/
>> <https://www.transifex.com/openstreetmap/osm-streak/>
>>
>> Have a truly mappy new year,
>> Ilya
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Streak: edit the map every day

[Michał Brzozowski]

Incidentally, that's what I envisioned, as well as did Polimappers [1].
Great minds think alike - all in a short period ;) But unlike me you
actually delivered, with software to support it.

I planned to have 30 or more challenges in some succession, not limited to
mapping, but also showing the OSM ecosystem (like mapper communication,
notes/change inspection/QA). So basically creating a competent mapper with
"learning by doing".

Is the source available somewhere?

Michał

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/PoliMappers/Adventures

On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Ilya Zverev  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am Ilya and I have been uploading changesets 15 days in a row. Not
> because I'm so into it or somebody makes me: I've made a tool that reminds
> me to do it. In a year I expect my HDYC activity chart to be completely
> filled. And you can have the same too.
>
> Introducing OSM Streak: a website that gives you points for submitting
> changesets each day:
>
> http://streak.osmz.ru/
>
> You get 1 point for the first changeset, and then you get more: for
> example, I will receive 4 points for my next changeset tomorrow. And that
> is not all: it gives you a random task each day, so you don't stare at the
> map trying to come up with an idea. For completing a task, you get an extra
> point. And when you map many days in a row, you gain levels, which open
> more tasks.
>
> Forgetting to visit a website is expectable, so OSM Streak is also a
> Telegram bot (find the link on the "Connect" page). With the bot, you can
> forget about the website: it accepts changesets and sends you tasks every
> day. Alternatively, you can subscribe to e-mail notifications, which will
> be sent on 1:00 UTC.
>
> All the tasks and the website and the bot can (and should!) be translated
> into your language. We have English and Russian, and I would be very
> grateful for more translations:
>
> https://www.transifex.com/openstreetmap/osm-streak/
>
> Have a truly mappy new year,
> Ilya
>
> ___
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[OSM-talk] Pokemon GO now uses OSM globally - influx of new users

[Michał Brzozowski]

FYI, Pokemon GO now uses OSM not only to generate spawns, but also to
display the in-game map. The news broke out on the web, especially on sites
like Reddit.

There is a spike of new users in some countries, like Brazil and USA.

Thankfully, the Reddit community [1] discourages people from adding bogus
features, but obviously nobody can be stopped from doing it. So do watch
for fake parks drawn for the purpose of influencing Pokemon spawn rate [2]

Also look out for people who delete house driveways. The map style in PoGO
overemphasizes them. So some may do "tagging for the game" ;)

[1]
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/7gtvcz/reminder_now_that_ingame_map_is_from_osm_you_can/
[2]  To look at all new parks: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/tte
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Re: [OSM-talk] New tool/API to find local OSM mailing lists by location

[Michał Brzozowski]

Exactly. This is very important, as sometimes it's not obvious which
contact channel is used by respective local communities.

This could be integrated as a button into iD so that it's hard to miss for
beginners.

Michał

On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 10:43 PM, ajt1...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> On 25/11/2017 19:18, joost schouppe wrote:
>
> That's really cool. What would it take to merge more sources in there? For
> example the main community e-mail address, their activities calendar, their
> riot/telegram/slack group? Maybe a structured wiki page could be the source?
>
>
> Firstly, it's a great idea...
>
> However, it's going to need more than just geographical information I
> think - for example for the Netherlands community I'd use the forum for
> contact rather than the talk-nl mailing list, whereas for IE/GB/UK it's the
> other way around.  It'd also need people to be able to say e.g. "in
> $country we mostly use $other_service and you can contact us via ".
> Maybe it's possible to see how many posts in each list/forum have been made
> and see which is the one that people actually use?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Effecting change in OpenStreetMap

[Michał Brzozowski]

I think that developers of JOSM are another noteworthy exception to add
along with openstreetmap-carto. Even if they break something, they are
quick to respond, and it seems that there's always some work going on.

But yes, I do share your feelings to a degree as well. People from many
core OSM projects seem they would like to continue status quo indefinitely..

The main project that I think is one of the most important, but at the same
time not getting enough attention is openstreetmap-website. There's so much
that could be done in order to facilitate mapper communication and improve
usability. I *could* learn Ruby to implement some incremental improvements,
but I would have to lose a few months on it and it's not a transferable
skill for me (I'm not a web developer, or even a programmer, though I use
Bash, Python and Tcl.). There are many quite sensible improvements that
haven't been addresed for a long time.

I have seen a similar phenomenon in Polish OSM community. There have been a
few tools and data analyses/visualisations made by the "old guard" i.e.
people who were active leaders in our community 7 or so years ago, who now
have work and family wasting their time. But they did not take care to
propagate the knowledge. Often it's a challenge to get sources form them to
build it on your own.

At the end of the day there's much that could be done to improve OSM if one
took a holistic approach, having multiple projects working on some common
goals, but with maintainers caring mostly about their turf and OSMF (by
design) being concerned mostly with funding, licensing and running *WGs
this is not happening.

Michał

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 2:47 PM, Darafei "Komяpa" Praliaskouski <
m...@komzpa.net> wrote:

>
> вс, 19 нояб. 2017 г. в 1:11, Christoph Hormann :
>
>> On Saturday 18 November 2017, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>> > john whelan wrote:
>> > > No you need to build up trust again and it takes time.  Only then
>> > > will your ideas start to gain acceptance.
>> >
>> > Oh come on. I've been a mapper since 2010, I've hosted dozens of
>> > events, I've written many articles and tools, some of which you might
>> > have used, I'm on the Board currently, and still my proposals and
>> > pull requests fail again and again, because there is no trust in
>> > OpenStreetMap. There is nothing you can to to build up trust. Your
>> > ideas will never get acceptance, it's just nitpicking and "unwritten
>> > rules" all over.
>>
>> I hope you are aware that with this you deny everyone who has ever
>> voiced critique on any of your proposals and pull requests to have a
>> competent opinion on the topic in question.
>>
>
> (sorry for my Russian straightness)
>
> Many words, long story short: technology-wise, OpenStreetMap core is dead.
>
> There is no development outside of a limited set of companies, and even
> that is mostly aimed at profit of the company, not the OSM community. All
> of it is done in "consumer" role.
>
> People trying to gain knowledge of developing something in non-"consumer"
> paradigm get shamed all over mailing lists. Or have a look what it takes to
> launch any kind of popular OSM editor, be it Potlatch or Maps.me, in terms
> of amount of hate towards you.
>
> It is impossible to get anything merged into core infrastructure. If
> initial author stepped away from the project, there is a group of ~5 people
> who effectively say no to any change.
>
> This year I got several PRs reviewed and merged into PostGIS, yet even
> simple configuration/limit changes to openstreetmap.org get ignored.
>
> I've posted a -dev mail about reusing nighttime of tile rendering servers.
> Some likes on GitHub, some reviews from passer-by's, no merge, nothing
> about "what to fix to get it merged". For a year. Patience you say?
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/mod_tile/pull/152
>
> /map call is technically 40x slower than it should be, but issue is being
> closed with "we are not complete idiots" comments. No action taken wherever.
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/135
>
> "I'm worried about this. I have not performed a technical review." as a
> blocker for PR merge:
> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/2939
>
> Basically, most of wide ~2011 dev community was hired away, and core is in
> hands of those who weren't hired away by Map* for whatever reason, be that
> lack of social skills or lack of technical skills. You've got no fresh
> blood, and there's no road map for it to improve.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Sudden influx of bad HOTosm edits in West Bank

[Michał Brzozowski]

Some time ago I suggested that the user should choose the preset and *then*
draw a feature. Such reversal is logical, allows to disable incompatible
geometry types (such as building=* on lines and points) and even opens the
door for displaying a concise tip on how to draw the object based on preset
chosen.
>From my experience - we have imported most of address points in Poland.
People add POIs as names to existing address nodes without any
shop/amenity/etc. tags. This is an obvious UX issue.

Michał

30.10.2017 1:53 AM "Bryan Housel"  napisał(a):

> Haha I promise I won’t be offended.  I welcome the criticism - this is
> part of working on something that matters to a lot of people.
>
> Anyway, iD already does train the user in the walkthrough how to assign
> tags, and iD does warn the user on the save screen if they are uploading
> untagged features.
>
> So, what would you prefer iD do.. Just not upload untagged things?  We
> could do this, and I don’t have any strong opinion one way or another.
>
> In the past, the thinking has been that it’s better to accept an imperfect
> contribution than to turn away an imperfect contributor.   The map is used
> for a lot of things these days - so maybe we should rethink this as a
> community how we handle obviously bad edits.
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 7:23 PM, Jo  wrote:
>
> Yes, it's amazing that after all these years of reporting it, that BUG in
> iD still hasn't been resolved. But don't dare to complain, we might offend
> Bryan.
>
> Polyglot
>
> 2017-10-29 23:47 GMT+01:00 Mark Wagner :
>
>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 22:15:18 +0200
>> Safwat Halaby  wrote:
>>
>> > - Adding closed ways with area=yes instead of building=yes, or with no
>> > tags at all
>>
>> A closed way with "area=yes" is a *very* common newbie mistake with iD:
>> the user traced an area, then forgot to tag it, or didn't realize they
>> needed to apply additional tags.
>>
>> --
>> Mark
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome_to_OpenStreetMap_users ?

[Michał Brzozowski]

I think this is to contrast our rules with their - quite different - rules.
But maybe you're right. Obviously in the old times much of our users were
Wikipedians.

Michał

25.10.2017 07:36 "Daniel Koć"  napisał(a):

> W dniu 25.10.2017 o 07:08, Roland Olbricht pisze:
>
>> See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Wikipedia_use
>> rs#Original_research_always_wins
>>
>
> Why is this page named "Welcome_to_Wikipedia_users"? Can we just move it
> to "Welcome_to_OpenStreetMap_users" or there are some not obvious
> problems with that?
>
> --
> "My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]
>
>
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[OSM-talk] "NRCS basic OSM training" - low quality changesets in Nepal

[Michał Brzozowski]

There has been a number of users making very low quality edits
(lowercase names, wrong tags. geometry problems among others) in
Nepal. They all use this mysterious changeset description: "NRCS basic
OSM training"
If this is training, then the instructor clearly has no OSM expertise required.
The mappers seem to make similar errors: misusing tags in addr:*
namespace, making up amenity=* tags, starting names from lower case.

Example changesets:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/49631971
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/49627019

You can see all of them around Nepal in WHODIDIT, I discovered half a
dozen of users, there may be more. They have quite high edit volume
and most of their edits need attention.

http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/index.html?zoom=13=27.63347=85.3243=BTT

Can we pin down who trains these mappers and demand them to stop and
take corrective action?

Michał

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[OSM-talk] The real face of MAPS.ME edits and notes - a short analysis

[Michał Brzozowski]

Much has been said about MAPS.ME note and edit functionality on this
list and elsewhere. I tried to get a real picture of how good/bad they
are. I went to mmwatch.osmz.ru and assessed 73 edits/notes made
between June 6th and 10th in Poland. Then I made a spreadsheet
(percentages at the bottom):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LsSEOUnt0Yekv9aHPMW54M3BpPUpAwvZ1bVp9kaXTKw/edit?usp=sharing

Redundant name:xx: 18%
Address problem: 10%
Mistagging / name problem: 22%
Duplicate: 22%
Garbage: 8%
Personal bookmarks / data disclosure: 8%

No issues: 26% (only!)

It should be noted that many of these issues (at least the first two)
could be easily prevented in software. It's high time they get fixed.

I have a feeling that the only force preventing a catastrophe are
power users monitoring edits. Many address problems were fixed by
Zbigniew_Czernik ("daily address fixes after newbies"). He is a
prolific mapper since 2009. He recently told me that he's not keen on
devoting even more time to OSM, specifically because of noobs breaking
data (including addresses).

Given this, I'm actually interested in how things look in places
without any established local community. After all, MAPS.ME is popular
all around the world.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] HDYC, login requirement and "privacy"

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 11:33 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> I have personally talked to people who said they don't want to
> contribute to OSM because Pascal Neis' page was "inviting stalkers".
>
> Those people were not the geek elite who have made it a habit to
> thoroughly think about what gets published and how to ensure that
> there's no link between their online identity and their private live if
> they don't want their privacy violated. Those were people from groups
> currently underrepresented in OSM, people whom we would like to see more
> of in OSM, but who felt unsafe making themselves visible like that.


How many people? I think we would make it worse for many just to have
a handful of people happy. I don't think we should strive to catch
mappers at any cost. I know the intentions are good, but reality has
often taught me otherwise.

Many national communities use their own change monitoring tools that
will break, for instance greeting and monitoring new mappers. We use
one site in Poland and the Dutch community also uses another site.
There's also Overpass API.
This is not feasible on a technical level IMO and would require
significant effort to satisfy just these paranoid people. I don't
trust OSMF to accommodate everyone's needs on change monitoring.

Also, I see no reasonable way that upcoming EU privacy rules would
affect us. Would they consider OSM as a special case or what?
Everything mappers do, as has been said, is consensual and explicit.

When I said spirit, I though for instance mapping parties which were
once very popular and still somewhat are. It was customary to make
animated progress maps colored by user.

Long story short: weigh "benefits" to all the far-reaching implications.

I really hope this won't come through. Really.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] HDYC, login requirement and "privacy"

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 10:48 PM, Christoph Hormann  wrote:
> Michał made a connection to privacy concerns regarding Google StreetView
> which were exclusively about the recorded data and not about the
> recording metadata (which Google obviously has no interest in
> publishing).

Yes, these matters are separate, but I was talking about the sentiment
towards privacy and over-exaggeration of it. Hence I wrote "moral
panic".
I think any of us here knows how Streetview and OSM work.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] HDYC, login requirement and "privacy"

[Michał Brzozowski]

> So you think the German community should be required to proactively
> communicate any subject they discuss in German language channels to the
> international community?

I think the tools are _de facto_ used by the whole OSM community
worldwide, that's why I think any sort of announcement would be
appropriate. I am realistic.

> Well - HDYC is a tool offered by Pascal Neis, AFAIK it is not even open
> source.  Pascal could turn it off any time if he wanted to and of
> course he can also put up constraints.

Keep in mind that I don't make it appear that my requests are based on
something formal, they're not. I simply hope that people will tell him
they don't agree with me and two already did ;)

I think it also emphasizes how open-source tools are important. There
are tons of obscure analysis pages which don't have their source
available.

For starters, there's a little known program called ChangesetMD which
allows you to load changeset and discussion metadata to Postgres.
However, this is changeset only and one won't be able to do all of the
analyses (bboxes alone often are inaccurate, also no info on tags).

Michał

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[OSM-talk] HDYC, login requirement and "privacy"

[Michał Brzozowski]

Many know Pascal Neis' site HDYC which displays detais about an OSM
user, like first created node, activity area, edit stats and so on:

http://hdyc.neis-one.org/

Today to view any stats of a user you have to login with OSM.
Pascal replied to me that this is related to this discussion on the
German users forum:

https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=57813

I don't like the idea how this was never introduced and discussed
outside of the German forum.
I think that such "privacy" measures are futile and go against the
spirit of OSM - transparency.

Maybe this is due to some "moral panic" in Germany revolving around
privacy, just like StreetView ban - except it's made clear that your
edits are public and you agree to it!

Michał

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[OSM-talk] A reminder that addr:place exists

[Michał Brzozowski]

There's a tag called addr:place [1] (6.2 million uses worldwide) which
is used e.g. in villages without street names.
A surprisingly high amount of software seems to ignore it, notable
exceptions being Mapfactor Navigator and Nominatim.

If proper usage of OSM data is of your concern, please spread the
awareness and nag the developers of your favorite software to support
it, as without it we are unable to use a significant amount of
addresses.

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr:place

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] multipolygon source tags preferred method

[Michał Brzozowski]

I, for one, use source tags extensively when tracing from multiple
sources, e.g. when I trace buildings from a county's WMS layer, but
supplement it with Bing / Geoportal when for whatever reason a
building is omitted from the WMS. Using separate changesets for
different sources seems pretty overcomplicated, especially when I
would leave them open.
For quite a long time people doing address imports in Poland use
source:addr, so any POI added to address nodes or any building traced
don't create ambiguity.

Michał

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
 wrote:
>
> 2017-03-27 23:17 GMT+02:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:
>>
>> Source tags on features within the OSM data base have not been depreciated
>> to my knowledge
>
>
>
> let's say it like this: their use is discouraged, because the concept
> doesn't work for OSM.
> You can see this reflected here:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Responding to vandalism

[Michał Brzozowski]

Here are two accounts which have spam (SEO) user description page and
have vandalized the map:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Morland
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mlafagos
Just for a reference for another vandal motivation (doubly stupid,
first - rel=nofollow being used on osm.org and second - they didn't
have to make any edits)

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] New Overpass API v0.7.54 version

[Michał Brzozowski]

About these "dark" POIs, I can claim prior art ;) Initially I thought
about buildings, but then I realized you can more easily search nodes
with name=* and addr:housenumber=* that don't have any main (shop,
amenity, ...) tag. These are often a result of iD beginners ;)
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=503313#p503313
It also seems to work well in the US (18k results), but then again -
in Poland we have quite comprehensive address imports in place. Much
of these nodes are from people adding business/whatever names to
already existing address points.
The addition of addr:housenumber clause seems to reduce false
positives substantially, otherwise I'd find myself adding more and
more keys to the query to exclude legitimate data.

Michał


On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 10:38 PM, Roland Olbricht
 wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> the next blog post is now online:
> http://dev.overpass-api.de/blog/index.html
>
> I will add further post once per week Monday evening without further notice.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Roland
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] This is an auto-generated note from MAPS.ME application:

[Michał Brzozowski]

The thing is: I follow changeset discussions in Poland regularly.. I
am yet to find a MAPS.ME user responding to a changeset comment (OK,
there was one person I can barely remember quite a while ago).
I really don't know what I'm missing. These people had to somehow
validate their e-mail address and yet nobody responded? You can't even
disable notifications on osm.org. Maybe alternative login methods
(Google, Facebook) have something to do with this?

On top of that there's usual misunderstanding of notes/POI being
personal bookmarks. In Poland I often encounter such notes written in
Ukrainian and sometimes Russian. I guess this is due to MAPS.ME origin
and its apparent popularity in the "Cyrillic-sphere".

The problem has to be resolved at the source. On top of the UX changes
required, there should be a provision for the app authors to "soft
ban" uncooperative app users by themselves (or potentially restrict
some buggy versions, see the name:xx issue). Both mappers' and DWG
time is precious.

Michał

On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Andy Townsend  wrote:
> On 09/12/2016 11:49, Dave F wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Peter%20Mount/notes
>>
>> They are all for the same entity.
>>
>> How can we stop this annoying repetition?
>
>
> 1) Try and contact the user, via changeset discussion comments, note updates
> or similar.
>
> if that doesn't work
>
> 2) Send an email to d...@osmfoundation.org requesting a block.  We can send
> them a message that they have to read before continuing mapping.  If they've
> used a throwaway email address of have no idea what OSM is, then it'll stop
> their garbage updates.
>
> Note that (1) actually works in a surprisingly large number of cases (not
> the majority, sure, but enough to be worth trying).  Also - it helps if you
> "be nice" when trying to contact new users, especially when they don't know
> what they're doing.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy (DWG member)
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Overhaul of https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Use_OpenStreetMap

[Michał Brzozowski]

Two weeks ago or so I thought of creating "Introduction for GIS users"
page or something like that (explaining how OSM is different from, for
a lack of better word, shapefile-based GIS).
We see many questions asked over and over, but the documentation isn't
really at the point of "if you can't understand it, you are an idiot".
There is now too little interest in the Wiki among most power users
(maybe owing to the fact that many see Wiki as "art for art's sake"
due to formal-yet-not-mandating-anything voting and ever-recurring
someone-has-changed-some-definition drama etc.).  As a result, the
accuracy, currency and accessibility of articles suffers.
There definitely should be an effort to improve the Wiki. It may be
interesting and educating to do an "act as a newbie" experiment and
see how real problems people had could be RTFM-ed.

The bottom line is that all we know is not some arcane magical
knowledge, we get it from the said Wiki and other manuals. It's just
that it's not easy to follow if you don't know how to do something.
Meanwhile, the grumpy part of me is sad that I can't yell RTFM to newbies (;

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 10:29 PM, Simon Poole  wrote:
> IMHO one of  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Using_OpenStreetMap or
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Use_OpenStreetMap should be nuked.
> And the remaining page revised so that it actually makes some sense
> (which is likely easier with the page you want to work on).
>
> No setting his hopes high.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 22.11.2016 um 22:07 schrieb Roland Olbricht:
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> I would like to overhaul one of the second level landing pages in the
>> wiki
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Use_OpenStreetMap
>>
>> The main reason is that I've found a forum thread with a completely
>> misinformed user
>> https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=56469
>> When trying to send a proper link to our documentation, I have
>> realized that indeed the wiki leaves a newbie seeking data no way to
>> find how to access it.
>>
>> For this reason I would like to add back the links to
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Download
>> that used to be on the front page.
>>
>> To avoid disturbing a second level landing page, I have made a mock-up
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Roland.olbricht/Use_OSM
>>
>> Please feel free to discuss it on the wiki
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Use_OpenStreetMap
>>
>> I suggest to move the mock-up to the real page in a week if no major
>> objections come up.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Roland
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Michał Brzozowski]

How about StreetOpenView? ;)
Streetscape sounds fine to me, too.

08.11.2016 16:37 "Martijn van Exel"  napisał(a):

> Hi all,
>
> A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open street
> level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and iOS.
> Since then, we not only have collected almost 30 kilometers of
> coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the press.
> This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known company
> with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView name. So we
> are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I wanted to ask
> if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?
>
> Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping,
>
> Martijn + the OpenStreetView team
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Which type of highways are used by routing software?

[Michał Brzozowski]

The rules for routing appear to be mostly global for popular routers.
There is very little magical sauce, if any. You can try many routers
from osm.org main page.
OSRM, for instance, avoids track at all times, unless
access=destination (or more particular class like motor_vehicle) is
used.

The issue with abuse of track probably boils down to its distinct
appearance on the standard style. Imitation of existing data could
also play a role in its spread.
To get people to tag properly, we need to render unpaved on the
standard style. See:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/110
It probably won't be exactly pretty, but it seems that's the only way
to discipline people who think of OSM as of images - and use only the
standard layer.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Hunting area tagging

[Michał Brzozowski]

I, for one, think that hunting areas don't really belong to OSM. Or at
least benefits are outweighed by problems. Firstly they may or may not
be associated with OSM features. In the latter case, there's no
guarantee that someone who edits a forest would understand it and not
merge it with other forest (Not to mention inconsistency of treating
ponds/lakes in forests as either cutting a hole or not). Also, there
may or may not be any on-the-ground markings. If there are none, there
should be an official database to which one can refer, in which case
there's no point in duplicating it in OSM.
The legal details vary around the world and we have seen that both
mapping legal state and implementing very elaborate tagging (here it'd
be: who, when, what, how) have not been successful.
Not to mention any hunter who needs this data would rather go to
official sources and not trust a map that anyone can edit.
Obviously, we map legal state sometimes (like for routing), but this
is mostly pragmatic and secondary to the feature. Here the legal state
is a feature in itself.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Michał Brzozowski]

Most of what I agree with has already been said.
If any media, such as lo-fi print or t-shirts calls for a simplified
design, there's no problem going with it. This has been done. The good
thing about the general concept of our logo (lens+map) is that it will
be recognizable in either case. These can coexist. I don't feel
there's a need to change our main logo.
Which is not to say the proposed one is bad. But still, I fail to see
how negative space (the lens) would work any better for very small
sizes.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] Should we send automated "nag" emails?

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 8:27 PM, john whelan  wrote:
> To catch the mappers before they get set in their habits?

This is, in my opinion, the most underrated wisdom right now. Bad data
causes more bad data. This is both by imitation by other users and by
implicit approval, or rather no feedback.

On top of that, some users meticulously map their personal "pet
projects" (usually either mapping something in insane detail, or some
specialized domain like "abandoned railways" or "historical this and
that"). If their work needs to be corrected or the data doesn't really
belong to OSM - and e.g. will disappear off the render - you know
you're going to have a hard time fixing it as they won't let you go
even if you're right.


Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] Overpass XAPI URL Status

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 8:04 PM, mmd  wrote:
> xapi endpoint is the only service that is blocked right now. That's due
> to one particular mobile app firing off excessive amounts of queries.
> Details are also known to the OSMF board.

Is it, shall I say, classified information?

If the developer can't deal with it for a few weeks (!), I'd just
escalate it at the respective app store, which I presume would happily
take it down if you tell them they perform a DDoS.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] Compare GPX to OSM ways

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Rob Nickerson
 wrote:
> That's neat. Thinking ahead it would be great if that analysis could be run
> when capturing GPS tracks (via a Android/iOS app) or when the GPS track is
> uploaded to OSM. You'd then get a notification: "Hey, you went somewhere
> new: please map it!"
>
> Rob

It has been done with Scout before, though from my experience it only
was viable in countries where Scout is popular. Now it seems to 404.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvexel/diary/35983

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] MAPS.ME edits - partly sub-standard

[Michał Brzozowski]

Recently, multilingual name support was rolled out. Still, seems that
the new name: tags get abused, or rather filled with
useless data.
Eg. http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41589376

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] http://overpass-api.de/ seems to be down on Saturday 20.08.2016 at 19:09

[Michał Brzozowski]

The areas feature of overpass-api.de doesn't work and Achavi returns 404.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 12:42 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
> May I suggest that switching to panic mode is a bit premature. Lambertus
> last contribution to OSM is just over half a year old, and there are
> other ways to contact people than just e-mail.

But it's so irresponsible to just vanish. I mean, what did he think?
If you know you can't do your job for that or another reason, you at
least let people know to see what can be done.

Even few months can be too much. Imagine some new potent vulnerability
surfaced. One of the best scenarios would be a database leak, but
things could be much worse than that, like serving malware to users.

Can anybody launch these "other ways" now?

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] New Google Maps style - interesting cartographic innovation

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 6:03 PM, David Fisher  wrote:
> Out of interest, do you also take issue with the central point of my
> last post -- that "landuse=retail" polygons may be seen as a similar
> sort of concept to Google's beige areas?  (assuming such polygons are
> placed by mappers who have at least a passing knowledge of the area in
> question)

Sorry for plugging to the post ;) I'm afraid it won't work out well.
Most of the area in city centers (like areas that I linked to) is
covered with townhouses with retail/service tenants residing at the
ground level, rest of the building being residential. Therefore
landuse=residential is more appropriate and is mapped so.

The activity areas aren't merely about the usage itself, but, well,
the activity - i.e. concentration of interesting places and number of
people visiting them (or other similar popularity metric).

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] New Google Maps style - interesting cartographic innovation

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 12:36 PM, Oleksiy Muzalyev
 wrote:
> Using colors like this is an excellent idea, however we shall not rely on
> colors alone as several percent of people cannot distinguish colors due to
> color blindness [1]. Besides, color blindness may develop with an advanced
> age, so no one is color-safe.
>
> We do not hear often about color blindness as people tend not to speak about
> it. But in fact maybe up to ten percent cannot see differences between
> certain colors at all.

I am more interested in the processing step itself and not styling,
which is trivial. To be clear, I am not talking about inclusion of
this in osm-carto. It is overloaded anyway.

I asked myself: If they use buildings to generate it, what do they do
when they aren't available? Turns out that for places without building
outlines they use street geometry to generate highlights [1][2].
Actually, when you compare it to using building outlines [2][3] it
looks somewhat cleaner. But in the end, buildings help too, as streets
may not always cover areas of interest. I speculate it is made similar
in geometrical appearance to built-up areas (orthogonal / straight
edges) on purpose. A smooth blob would be confusing.

I posted a thread here because I thought it may inspire people who
make their own OSM-based map styles ;) The devil is always in the
details and we would learn much from a proof of concept, both in terms
of how to achieve a similar effect and how to integrate external open
datasets in a meaningful manner.

[1] https://www.google.com/maps/@54.86,18.2042257,15.92z?hl=en
[2] https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3514061,18.6551512,15.88z?hl=en
[3] https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5175292,18.5419689,15z?hl=en
[4] https://www.google.com/maps/@54.4440137,18.5640867,16.67z?hl=en

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] New Google Maps style - interesting cartographic innovation

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Maarten Deen  wrote:
>So it's a heatmap for POI's?

A thresholded heatmap, maybe. But really the area thingy seen on zooms
lower than buildings is a concave hull on slightly expanded outlines
of "interesting" buildings (as I said the ones which contain most of
given POIs). The area only includes most concentrated areas, so lone
interesting buildings don't count toward it.
Therefore, it's a hybrid of a point-in-polygon, spatial buffer,
concave hull and a heatmap.

>I still don't see the innovation.

The notion that something is not innovative just because it uses
familiar methods is fundamentally wrong. A solution consists of a
method (like an algorithm) and its application, that is a problem it
solves. If you apply an existing algorithm in a new and meaningful
way, that also is innovative. In fact, if the former were true, we
would have to dismiss half of science papers, if not more.

The classical heatmap on some random OSM hacker's website serves a
different purpose - analysis. It hasn't been used on general purpose
maps in a context of presenting "interesting" places automatically.
Still, if anybody can give an example of anybody doing similar thing
as Google did, I stand to be corrected.

The bottom line is that we don't live in a vacuum and it's beneficial
to look for fresh or unusual ideas wherever they come from. No need to
perpetuate an echo chamber.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] New Google Maps style - interesting cartographic innovation

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 8:05 AM, Maarten Deen  wrote:
> I don't know if I understand you right, but different colors for different
> purposes is hardly an innovation.

You haven't got the point I guess. The new thing is that this process
is carried out automatically (for most cases).

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[OSM-talk] New Google Maps style - interesting cartographic innovation

[Michał Brzozowski]

There has been an update to Google Maps styling [1] and I have to say,
they left me impressed.
The overall look is cleaner, which is very welcome after a series of
disappointing changes, but the thing I consider very innovative is how
buildings (and on lower zooms - areas) with lots of "activities" (i.e.
POIs) are highlighted in beige.

Now, traditional topo maps use building type attribute for this, eg.
Polish ones use dark brown for public/retail buildings, orange for
residential, violet for industrial and gray for everything else.
Our (and I presume Google's no better) building type tagging is pretty
sparse, so this is a no-go.

I wonder whether somebody could cook up a proof of concept of this for
OSM styling to see how it would work out. One may play with assigning
different weights to POIs according to their type or perceived
importance via Wiki{pedia|data} tags.

Michał

[1] 
https://maps.googleblog.com/2016/07/discover-action-around-you-with-updated.html

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Re: [OSM-talk] Building a free/open reviews community w/ OSM support

[Michał Brzozowski]

Have you devised any robust algorithm for linking OSM primitives to
objects in the external database? In general case, it seems really
hard to track objects as they get converted from nodes to areas, or
decide whether given OSM feature is no longer representing some entity
in the external database. On top of that, people do many stupid things
while mapping which could baffle even a sophisticated program.
A framework / API for performing such linking would be of great
interest, as it could enable many applications to exist on top of OSM
- recognizing that not everything belongs to OSM.

Regarding the idea, I reckon it may not scale well, if at all. Weeding
out spammers needs constant attention, and community moderation is
prone to the Sybil attacks. This may be less of a problem on sites
such as OSM or Wikipedia where data needs verifiability that or
another way (so in order to gain trust you have to do actual work).
Reviews are inherently subjective. Not to mention any legal BS one may
get from business owners.

Michał

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 12:55 AM, Erik Moeller  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm working on this project:
>
> https://lib.reviews/
>
> The front page explains the goal: to build a free, open and non-profit
> community focused on reviews. Review content is under CC-BY-SA while
> the codebase is under CC-0.
>
> Basic functionality to write reviews is there (we identify things to
> review by URL for now), but there's a lot more to come. See the
> screencast on the front page for what is working so far. Language is a
> first-class citizen: both the UI _and_ all content (including review
> texts) are fully translatable. The site should be mobile-friendly, and
> work without JavaScript.
>
> I've long been involved with Wikimedia and am also a big fan of OSM;
> these projects are guiding me in terms of the philosophy and
> principles behind lib.reviews. See https://lib.reviews/terms which
> should give some insight into the project philosophy.
>
> I've noticed that having reviews associated with OSM data has been
> proposed before, e.g. [1], and so I am hoping that OSM and lib.reviews
> can become good friends :). The OSM POI data seems like a good way to
> bootstrap reviews of restaurants, businesses, and the like. If anyone
> wants to already get involved in investigating how this could be made
> to work, I'd be more than happy to schedule a video call to walk you
> through the codebase and architecture.
>
> I'm also happy to answer questions on-list or off-list, and if you'd
> like an invite-code to play with the functionality that's there so
> far, shoot me an offlist note or follow the instructions on the site.
> I believe free/open reviews are a critical component of the free
> culture ecosystem, alongside maps, encyclopedic content, and other
> information. If you agree, hope you'll check it out!
>
> Warmly,
>
> Erik
>
> [1] http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=27837
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Michał Brzozowski]

Somebody also tried to contact Lambertus to no avail, asking for
creation of users:Iceland
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=55089

Michał

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 12:24 AM, Daniel Koć  wrote:
> W dniu 14.07.2016 23:46, Hakuch napisał(a):
>
>> did you try to contact him by mail? I had last contact in april and
>> could try again
>
>
> Last time it was in September 2015, so not lately. =} Please, try again and
> let us know.
>
> I'm glad at least we have spam protection working, which was a big issue he
> managed to do. However if it's just one person dealing with forum, I think
> we have a problem - if not now, then in the future.
>
>
> --
> "Low, low, low..." [M. Kempa]
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Viewing pre-redaction OSM tiles?

[Michał Brzozowski]

I am not. I just don't want to say "guilty" prematurely. It's a system
for traffic information (public-facing site) and traffic control built
by some neighboring cities.

Michał

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 9:27 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
<dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 2016-07-14 21:11 GMT+02:00 Michał Brzozowski <www.ha...@gmail.com>:
>>
>> No. They render maps on their own and also FOSM data seem not to be
>> *just* before the redaction (am I right? There are no changes I made
>> in May 2012)
>
>
>
>
> maybe you are talking about Apple maps? They use both, pre-redaction
> cc-by-sa data and also ODbl data.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] Viewing pre-redaction OSM tiles?

[Michał Brzozowski]

No. They render maps on their own and also FOSM data seem not to be
*just* before the redaction (am I right? There are no changes I made
in May 2012)

Michał

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 8:59 PM, Andy Townsend <ajt1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 14/07/2016 19:49, Michał Brzozowski wrote:
>>
>> I would swear I saw a page doing exactly that (with a comparison slider).
>> The reason is I suspect that some website uses old cc-by-sa OSM data
>> (due to its nature, with their own updates) without attribution nor
>> with modified map data released.
>
>
> Apologies if I've misinterpreted the question, but if you saw something
> comparing against old OSM data it might have been using tiles from
> http://map.fosm.org/ ?  That's based on pre-licence change OSM data.  There
> are some people updating that, but not many.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
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[OSM-talk] Viewing pre-redaction OSM tiles?

[Michał Brzozowski]

Hi.
I would swear I saw a page doing exactly that (with a comparison slider).
The reason is I suspect that some website uses old cc-by-sa OSM data
(due to its nature, with their own updates) without attribution nor
with modified map data released.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] MAPS.ME edits - partly sub-standard

[Michał Brzozowski]

While Tomas' reply is quite harsh, I can relate. Personally, I am not
a big fan how MAPS.ME development is directed. I asked them to
implement addr:place, which they didn't, and now that they have an
editor, people inadvertently mistag such addresses in villages without
street names (which are common in many European countries). Their
development seems to revolve around "next big marketable feature for
new market release". While there *is* polishing going on lately, it's
not enough. They fail to understand that devil is in the detail - and
that such small defects pile up. I find it odd that they can pull off
big features yet so often dismiss user-proposed enhancements as too
time-consuming or too hard to implement. Whoever watches their GitHub
closely will know what I mean.
My bottom line: you will never be perfect if you don't aspire to be. I
see that MAPS.ME could become a replacement for Google/Apple/HERE
maps, but only if they ask themselves what makes a map application
good. I don't know if they really intend not to go where others have,
or is it lack of self-awareness. For instance, who would think it's
reasonable (as in everyday-reasonable) to just display geo coordinates
on a map pin which doesn't happen to land on any symbol. Normal maps
do a reverse geocode. And so on, and so on. It's these nuisances that
pile up.

Michał

On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 8:57 PM, Johan C  wrote:
> I don't know why it should be an invention by Zverik. However, since he is
> both an OSFM board member and working for MAPS.ME he might show up with a
> solution.
>
> Cheers, Johan
>
> 2016-06-19 20:45 GMT+02:00 Tomas Straupis :
>>
>>   There is one bad convergence on this.
>>
>>   While I can also observe that in Lithuania in last month there was a
>> huge increase in mapsme "edits" and 50% of those are straight bullshit
>> (like adding as an artwork objects like "my crib", "place I fish",
>> adding cyrillic names to name tag in Lithuania where cyrilic is
>> totally alien etc.), 30% edits like adding duplicate points and only
>> ~20% being edits which could be interpreted and after editing begin
>> useful. Thankfully in Lithuania we employ a mechanism similar to
>> wikipedias "patrolling" so things like that are fixed pretty quickly.
>> But still it uses resources which could be used better.
>>
>>   But this is one another Zveriks "inventions" introducing havoc in
>> OSM. We had russian automated translation adding to name:ru tags
>> worldwide "because world of tank needs that". Before that we had
>> zveriks "idea" of introducing natural=water for everything that is
>> blue to tagging. Which was made less than a year after he joined OSM
>> and with hundreds of thousands of objects already marked in a
>> different way (that idea has failed because even after five years
>> people still mark objects usual way rather than the new scheme).
>>
>>   Worst of all Zverik did not engage in any discussion about
>> aforementioned bad decisions!
>>
>>   Maybe we should have some guards against such non discussed high
>> impact "inventions"? And in case of "natural=water for everything
>> blue" some mechanism to revert such not well thought out "proposals"?
>>
>> --
>> Tomas
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] New MapRoulette now in early public beta

[Michał Brzozowski]

I occasionally make some queries with Overpass Turbo to clean up data,
many of which are country-specific - related to street naming etc.
One of them though is related to misuse of iD: people (or companies
trying to mark themselves) add POIs to the map as an address point
with a name (or adding a name to an existing one) - without a
"principal" tag such as shop or amenity. I couldn't convince @bhousel
to discourage this programatically (and obviously there's plenty of
them in the DB already). Could be nice to gamify fixing them with
proper tagging.

Direct MapRoulette integration with Overpass API would be fantastic.

Michał


On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> MapRoulette has been completely redone, hopefully keeping the good parts and
> improving on some things that were not so great. I’m pretty excited to
> announce that I have a public beta up now at http://maproulette.org:8080. I
> am very much looking forward to your feedback. Old MapRoulette will be
> around for a month or so more, then we will switch over. Some more details
> below. Let me know what you think, or if you want to help out!
>
> Map on,
> Martijn
>
> Some resources
> Mailing List: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/maproulette/ (low
> volume)
> Slack: maproulette.slack.com
> Code: https://github.com/maproulette/
> API: https://github.com/maproulette/maproulette2/blob/master/docs/api.md
>
> Major changes / improvements are
> * Much improved metrics (this part particularly under heavy development and
> feedback welcome)
> * Challenges now grouped in Projects that can be managed by multiple users
> * Project / Challenge administration now fully integrated in the user
> interface
> * Survey challenges let you ask questions about things with multiple choice
> answers
> * Tasks can have tags for another layer of organization
> * Challenge search and discovery through a one box search (still very early,
> more to come here and feedback welcome)
> * API is more consistent and more RESTful
> * Due to new challenge model, there is no backward compatibility with the
> old API
> * Switching to API keys, no more tunneling / ease
> * Back end now completely written in Scala
> * Deployment fully automated through Docker
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Upload slowness - what's going on?

[Michał Brzozowski]

Their response is indeed so vague that I suspect even they don't know
what's happening ;)

Certainly, when you use JOSM, you can choose how much objects to
upload at once. Small bundles (100...200) seem to work better. You can
experiment with it.

Michał

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 7:02 AM, Ben Discoe  wrote:
> Several of us have noticed radically slowly upload speed for
> changesets, roughly since the server move on May 9.  Like, as
> painfully slow as it used to be, it's now several times slower.
>
> It's been discussed with @OSM_Tech on twitter, in this thread:
> https://twitter.com/OSM_Tech/status/730857486618664960
>
> Before I get too hysterical, can somebody tell me what happened, and
> can it be fixed?
>
> OSM_Tech's mysterious message:
>   "Large uploads will take around 3 times longer. Small uploads extra
> delay should be minimal."
>
> Does this mean that something did change?  It is database writes that
> are taking so much longer?  Changesets with as few as 400 object are
> taking several times longer, what constitutes "large" vs. "small"?
> Can it be fixed?  Can I donate large sums of money somewhere to help
> it get fixed?
>
> Thanks,
> Ben
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] India wants to license maps

[Michał Brzozowski]

So then we should promptly raise awareness of the issue. I think EFF
is the right place to ask for support, if they hadn't covered it
already.
Also, OSMF might make a blog post describing how it can affect us,
that could be shared / linked to raise awareness. Information moves
rather quickly in the technological blogosphere.

Michał

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 7:37 PM, john whelan  wrote:
> It may impact us.
>
> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36276754
>
> Cheerio John
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Global high-resolution model of relief

[Michał Brzozowski]

It's actually better described as "hillshade". Hence why 15 m data
from a 30 m source make sense. For me it's nothing new, really. This
has been done many times, the only differentiator being the denoising
method, if any.

Michał

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 10:04 PM, moltonel  wrote:
>
>
> On 16 March 2016 18:05:12 GMT+00:00, clustergis  wrote:
>>In the ClusterGIS association (http://clustergis.org) we have made a
>>global
>>model of relief of high-resolution (15m/px), in geotiff format.
>>
>>Data can be downloaded from the page http://theearthsrelief.com with CC
>>BY
>>license.
>
> Thanks very much for this. Where did you get the 15m data from, if NASA's 
> SRTM is only 30m ? Is it via postprocessing of 30m sources ? What about areas 
> where SRTM has holes, like in high-altitude ?
> --
> Vincent Dp
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] How to extract the 12M maritime borders using osmosis?

[Michał Brzozowski]

These nodes seem to be admin centres of countries. They are part of
the boundary relations.
Try not to reject relations.

Michał

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Egil Möller  wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I'm working for a project that aims to measure IUU (illegal, unregulated and
> unregistered) fishing (globalfishingwatch.org). For this I'd like to be able
> to classify vessel track points as withing various areas, e.g. MPAs,
> economic zones and national waters, of which OSM contains the last one.
>
> I'm trying to extract this dataset and import it into a PostGIS instance for
> further processing. According to
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dmaritime#Territorial_sea_.2812.C2.A0nm_zone.29
> the borders should have these attributes
>
> boundary=administrative since so many had a problem with grouping it
> together with maritime borders
> maritime=yes to state that this is a maritime border, so it can be rendered
> correctly/different from land borders
> admin_level=2 since it is a national boundary
> border_type=territorial to distinguish it from borders on land
>
> I tried extracting these borders using
>
> osmosis/bin/osmosis -v \
>   --read-pbf-fast file=planet-latest.osm.pbf \
>   --tf reject-relations \
>   --tf reject-nodes \
>   --tf accept-ways boundary=administrative maritime=yes admin_level=2
> border_type=territorial \
>   --write-xml file=12M.osm
>
> I then imported this into PostGIS using
>
> osmosis/bin/osmosis -v --read-xml file=12M.osm.bz2 --write-pgsimp-dump
> directory=12M
>
> and the SQL script osmosis/script/pgsimple_load_0.6.sql.
>
> Now to the problem:
>
> I see a bunch of nodes all over the place, some even inland:
> http://cdb.io/1QjDRGN
> I see only 40 ways with nodes, all somewhere on the border of Iran:
> http://cdb.io/1QjE2Sq
>
>
> I tried the following query to find the number of ways with nodes:
>
> select count(*) from (select ways.id, st_makeline(nodes.geom) line from
> ways, way_nodes wn,nodes where wn.way_id = ways.id and wn.node_id = nodes.id
> group by ways.id) a where line is not null;
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Egil
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM 290

[Michał Brzozowski]

I did see when I've read the RSS. ;) (I set up a Pushbullet feed). So
I guess it's wasn't officially released by that date (10th Feb)?

Michał

On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 9:51 PM, Nicolás Alvarez
<nicolas.alva...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2016-02-11 17:43 GMT-03:00 Michał Brzozowski <www.ha...@gmail.com>:
>> Can you tell me what's up with this "This entry is available only in
>> Spanish"? I think people won't care if it got delayed a day later or
>> so. Also weird it's Spanish if you have to aggregate multiple mostly
>> English sources anyway.
>
> Where did you see the phrase "This entry is available only in Spanish"?
>
> --
> Nicolás

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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM 290

[Michał Brzozowski]

So I checked what I have set up in Pushbullet and it's
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/feed. Maybe this is a result of their server
configuration or geographical location.

Michał

On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Peter Barth  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Andy Townsend schrieb:
>> What seems to have happened is that the text of the HTML link in the
>> announce email was changed from Spanish to English, but the destination
>> of the link itself was not.
>
> It simply depends on your browser settings. I see a German text
> explaining that the Weekly is only available in English and Spanish and
> as the German version is not available, the Weekly itself is displayed
> in Wordpress-Default: English.
>
> Peda
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM 290

[Michał Brzozowski]

Can you tell me what's up with this "This entry is available only in
Spanish"? I think people won't care if it got delayed a day later or
so. Also weird it's Spanish if you have to aggregate multiple mostly
English sources anyway.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] Wilingness to contribute to OpenStreet

[Michał Brzozowski]

Hello. I think you should ask at the dev mailing list.
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

BTW, we're OpenStreetMap, not OpenStreet.

Michał

On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 12:17 PM, K2K  wrote:
> Hi
> I'm a second year student of Informatics Institute of Technology Sri Lanka,
> and I hereby express my willingness to contribute to any on-going
> developments of OpenStreet .
> My fields of expertise are version controlling, Object Oriented
> programming, design patterns,java web
> applications,javascript,angularjs, Object Relational Mapping(ORM),handling
> apache tomcat servers.
>
>
> Thank you,
> Kumaranath Fernando
>
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[OSM-talk] Why newbies' comment/message response rate is so low?

[Michał Brzozowski]

I watch what new users do, reviewing their work and I am kind of fed
up with how rarely newbies respond to changeset comments and messages.
Have you observed such low rate in your area?
Is there anything we could do in order to increase it? I feel it's so
futile to ever contact these hit-and-run mappers. Maybe we could take
something from vast existing knowledge on online marketing/UX and see
what can be improved?

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] Why newbies' comment/message response rate is so low?

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 7:44 PM, tony wroblewski
 wrote:
> From experience, I know that such responses are intimidating and put
> people off mapping. My girlfriend started mapping some areas when I
> showed her how to do it and immediately somebody sent her an email
> saying how she should be doing things because he doesn't map it that
> way

I do agree there may be no single correct way of mapping some things.
I am pretty liberal usually and I think mistakes that I mentioned are
quite objective. I don't nag people over things that can be done
correctly in many ways.

> and in the end she said she didn't like it and felt intimidated and decided 
> not to carry on.

I don't know, majority of us are grown-ups - who would know better
that an individual may be not representative of a group, and that one
should not take offence easily. It may be that due to our flat
structure one can't tell who is important and who is not.

> I think people need a playpen where they can try out ideas and map
> before contributing to the main map (Maybe there already is, I don't
> know). I think it should also be a requirement that people add a
> comment upon every commit to avoid such arguments. I'm getting a
> little tired of seeing constant updates in my area from people who
> don't add comments on why or what they've changed.

I do agree this is needed, as in Wikipedia. But how would people get
the feedback on what they mapped? We would also need something on the
data consumption side. That could be tricky. For instance, routing
needs time to import data. Also, we teach people not to tag for the
renderer, which is an issue as iD supports much more POI than are
rendered by osm-carto. I can imagine that WYSIWYG-ing what is
currently could backfire.

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 7:59 PM, Marc Zoutendijk  wrote:

> Here is the link that will show you all new mappers in your country (replace 
> Countryname with your country of interest)
>
> http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/newestosmcountryfeed.php?c=Countryname

Thanks. I use openstreetmap.pl/users - usually (if it isn't out of
sync), it can be faster - resultmaps update only hourly. It is also
connected to the #osm-pl IRC channel.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] Why newbies' comment/message response rate is so low?

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Gerd Petermann
 wrote:
> I think that's quite okay presuming that many users don't speak english
I forgot to mention. My operations with respect to newcomers are
almost solely in Poland. So I write in Polish.

> and another group simply doesn't like to be watched / corrected
I thought this is what community is about? Reviewing others' work? ;-)
The things I write about are rather obvious mistakes, like: no main
POI tag (amenity, shop, ...), free text in opening_hours, geometry
errors and so on.

Recently I found out that simple "please fix" or "please respond" (if
edits need clarification) boosts chances for a reply or fixing by the
user. How about we make some tips/guidelines for communications with
newcomers on the Wiki? People could share practices they find most
effective.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] Why newbies' comment/message response rate is so low?

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 8:49 PM, Clifford Snow  wrote:
> I like that concept. I try to invite new users are in the geographic area of
> our meetup group. If I think they need a helpful hint I add it to the
> welcome message. I'd really like to automate the process. Is there a way to
> automate sending messages to all new users or do you have to send each on
> individually?

There is no *official* API for messages (apparently, for a reason).
A few years ago, Andrzej Zaborowski (balrog-kun / sir-mapalot) did
send such welcome messages to Polish newcomers - to every fourth
mapper, based on (uid mod 4). It was a form of an A/B test, though for
results you would have to contact him. If I recall correctly, he told
it was statistically insignificant with respect to users' later
engagement.

I did receive such greeting messsage back in 2012 and probably it
helped me to engage with the community (I jumped straight into IRC to
ask some questions). Different countries have different main forms of
contact (forum, mailing list, IRC, FB, VK and so on)

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] Odd edits by rowers2 in Cameroon

[Michał Brzozowski]

I seem to know why he's doing this and at users:Poland forum he was
instructed not to do this. He's testing rendering of OSM-3D in some
web maps (f4map?).

Feel free to delete it. For the future, use changeset comments first,
if you didn't. It his activity persists, go DWG on him.

The takeaway is that whoever is he testing against, should offer some
testing with our dev database or .osm files.

As per point on the second column, these are legit buildings, visible on Bing.

Michał

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 11:27 PM, john whelan  wrote:
> Visible at
>
> 7.4396667 7.4711556
>
> 15.5891705 15.6047916
>
> There is nothing visible in Bing or Mapbox but that doesn't mean much but
> the shape and detail of the edits are suspicious to me and they seem to have
> made a very large number of edits recently in their history.
>
>
> Could someone be nice and take a peek?
>
>
> Thanks John
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Odd edits by rowers2 in Cameroon

[Michał Brzozowski]

I meant they are purely fictional. He created these rows of buildings
to test something, like different 3d attributes or whatever. They
shouldn't exist in OSM.

The legit ones I refered to are eg.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/341996660 which are just at one
corner of your bbox.

Michał

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 11:55 PM, Jo <winfi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The buildings are not in Cameroon though.
>
> I wrote him a changeset comment:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34368108#map=3/31.80/21.27
>
> Polyglot
>
> 2015-11-11 23:49 GMT+01:00 Michał Brzozowski <www.ha...@gmail.com>:
>>
>> I seem to know why he's doing this and at users:Poland forum he was
>> instructed not to do this. He's testing rendering of OSM-3D in some
>> web maps (f4map?).
>>
>> Feel free to delete it. For the future, use changeset comments first,
>> if you didn't. It his activity persists, go DWG on him.
>>
>> The takeaway is that whoever is he testing against, should offer some
>> testing with our dev database or .osm files.
>>
>> As per point on the second column, these are legit buildings, visible on
>> Bing.
>>
>> Michał
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 11:27 PM, john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Visible at
>> >
>> > 7.4396667 7.4711556
>> >
>> > 15.5891705 15.6047916
>> >
>> > There is nothing visible in Bing or Mapbox but that doesn't mean much
>> > but
>> > the shape and detail of the edits are suspicious to me and they seem to
>> > have
>> > made a very large number of edits recently in their history.
>> >
>> >
>> > Could someone be nice and take a peek?
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks John
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
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Re: [OSM-talk] Notes: View them based on age?

[Michał Brzozowski]

You may file a feature request:
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues
If you want to view them now, you can always fiddle with XPath:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/RicoElectrico/diary/34338
If it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid (although as the comment
points out this functionality is buried in JOSM advanced settings) -
still your load time and RAM usage will be better.

Michał

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Dave F.  wrote:
> Hi
>
> Is there a way to view OSM Notes (right hand side of map) based on the date
> created? It's a bit of a pain to remember which of the notes I've already
> clicked on.
>
> Could either a selectable drop down menu be added of better still marker
> colour gradation - dark red for new, getting lighter with age? In steps of
> week, month, 6 months, year etc maybe?
>
> Cheers
> Dave F.
>
>
>
> ---
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> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
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[OSM-talk] MAPS.ME open-sourced

[Michał Brzozowski]

A few days ago MAPS.ME - an offline OSM-based map and navigation for
Android and iOS has been open-sourced. Weird that nobody did mention
it already, as it's great news.
https://twitter.com/MAPS_ME/status/649213918255161344

I hope this will boost their development, as it's overall a good and
user-friendly app, but with its fair share of quirks and overlooks -
we know there's a huge gap between good and perfect ;-)

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] Micromapping and other subforums

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 3:37 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
 Definition of mirco mapping would be usefull if this starts up?

 Mapping areas of, say, less than 5? square metres?
 Mapping nodes where the separation to other features is less than, say, 5?
 metres?

Sarcasm detected? (as per sheer nonsense of such definitions) It's a
I know it when I see it case, loosely speaking this means small
things of no relevance to our competitors or regular data consumers,
who are happy with a - duh! - street map.

 And speaking of subforums: is there a possibility to create sub-subforums
 (I mean thematic subforums inside country subforums)?


 Why? Separating them out would lead to less participation - you only look at
 things that interest you untill you run out of time ...

This is really needed. Our Polish subforum is kind of mess currently,
with a few superthreads (beginner questions, available imagery,
address imports, osm 3d, ...) on top of that.

Michał

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[OSM-talk] Students editing for assignments

[Michał Brzozowski]

So this topic is recurring in my work once in a while. I go through
newbies list in Poland [1], check their edits, try to correct them and
contact users (now preferably via changeset discussions).
One kind of sloppy edits is interesting: students editing OSM for
their homework. They are capable of doing the crappiest work you can
imagine [2] (But, they tend to respond to messages and tell you that
they're gonna delete it after fact)

I ask that we create some guidelines for that type of editing, as
we're no sandbox [3]; also editing and later deletion seems not right
to me (self-vandalism?).
These guidelines should also, or in particular, target teachers -
maybe make them to require students to designate it (and teacher's
contact) in their user page?
They should be concise (and addressed, as in dear teacher) so they
can be sent to teachers who aren't aware of these guidelines, when a
student gives a contact to them.

Michał

[1] http://openstreetmap.pl/users . Note there are so many that due to
lack of powerful one-click change inspection tools I can't go through
all the users.
[2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/czarek18b1/history
[3] We should definitely make one, like one that Wikipedia has.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing Applications

[Michał Brzozowski]

This was bothering me, too. But aren't we expecting too much? I guess
that via ways could be not that easy to implement for all but the
simplest cases (where it can be reduced to via nodes, anyway - like no
U-turn on a double carriageway which intersects with a
single-carriageway road).

Can someone who actually works with commercial navigation data say if
via ways have an equivalent in their systems?

We can't live in our idealistic world if it means that implementations
can't easily deliver proper solution. This indirectly backfires on our
crediblity, whether we like it or not. If it were that easy, then at
least some (more than 1 and few obscure) routers would have supported
via ways.

Routing is one of the areas where errors aren't tolerated and you will
get all this OSM is shit from people. If Google, TomTom and HERE can
sort it out, why can't we?

Michał


On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Nick Whitelegg
nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote:

 Depends what you're after really. I'm impressed by GraphHopper's job in
 suggesting a foot route between Southampton and the village I spent my
 teenage years, 60km away - it actually suggests a route very close to the
 one I would have chosen myself. A bit more roads than ideal, but it is
 impressive.


 
 From: Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com
 Sent: 17 June 2015 10:00
 To: Hans De Kryger; OpenStreetMap
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Routing Applications


 If you ask me, they are all in their infancy. Non of these routing services
 even route right. In a turn restriction the via role can be a way. Neither
 OSRM, ORS or GraphHopper knows how to restrict that, and that's IMHO one of
 the crucial parts of a routing engine.

 When one of them starts routing right, than we can talk about picking a
 winner service. Right now only MapQuest knows how to route.

 Janko


 sri, 17. lip 2015. 05:34 Hans De Kryger hans.dekryge...@gmail.com je
 napisao:

 Why do OSRM  OpenRoutingService compete against each other instead of
 joining resources and combining efforts to make the best routing service out
 there? Am i missing something? I know it's nice to have different services
 for different uses but this doesn't seem like a good use of resources at
 all. I may be the only one with this opinion, but this has bug me for
 awhile.

 Regards,

 Hans

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheDutchMan13

 *Sorry for any misspellings*
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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing Applications

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote:
 Imagine a single-carriageway road crossing a dual-carriageway road.
 All turns are allowed except u-turns from one side of the
 dual-carriageway to the other. This common situation can only be
 modeled using a turn restriction with a via way.

 Now if the via way had to be split for any reason, then you have
 multiple via ways.

Isn't the restriction type (no_u_turn, no_left_turn, no_right_turn)
basically just for display purposes? Because given from, to and via it
only matters whether it's no_* or only_*.

The solution I think is going to give correct routing would be to make
a no_u_turn where one of the carriageways is from, the node at
intersection is via and that small connecting segment is to.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] Some thoughts against remote mapping

[Michał Brzozowski]

I was imagining a new OSM editing program and thought about making
provisions in the API for editor programs to wait for edits to be
approved (so that it's still posted as the actual user). But it would
get too tricky, considering just conflicts for instance. So in this
form it's unsuitable.

The thing is, we blame noobs often, whereas I see that it's iD's
shortcomings. People notoriously add bare names to address points
(without a meaningful tag) to add POIs - there are thousands of them
just in Poland. Other offenders are opening_hours written in national
languages.

As someone said, iD editor developers aren't keen on providing
warnings to the user. And their logic seems to be out of touch with
mapping community. See
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2366#issuecomment-57371665
and https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2325 ). I don't buy
this BS - a name is better than nothing - experienced mapper time is
precious, period.

We JOSMers often forget that iD is there and it gets neglected. Go and
try mapping something, act as a person who knows nothing about OSM:
you'll be surprised about how many gotchas there are that are taken
for granted, even if you are a theoretical noob with ideal cognitive
ability (but who only does what is said to do).

For me the essence of making a noob-friendly editor is to have it more
task-oriented, data-aware and leaving nothing to chance. There is a
simple thing that could massively help: first select feature type,
then draw it. It paves way to many improvements and benefits, such as
contextual help that isn't obnoxious at all and is likely to be more
effective.
iD could offer some sort of I want to... (add a building, mark a
highway one-way, and much more) oriented mini-tutorials. In these you
would tell all these gotchas, like how to place a building properly
(not at the roof, but at the base).

Allowing regional communities to have a say in iD development is also
needed. Different countries have their own conventions on street
names, addresses and so on. This is marginalized currently.

Oh man, what a hell of an off-topic.

Michał

On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 5:28 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 Hi,

 On 06/15/2015 09:55 PM, john whelan wrote:
 Perhaps we need something like the HOT validation system in OSM more
 generally but I don't know how it would work.  Locally OSM mappers have
 used a rich range of tags, I'd say about 25% other than highways didn't
 get rendered for one reason or another when they were initially tagged.

 On the German forum and mailing lists, occasionally newbies will pop up
 and say I've mapped this and that, could somebody have a look if
 everything is correct?

 Perhaps it could be as easy as setting a changeset tag review=yes
 please, and then a small web site listing changesets that have this tag
 and don't yet have a review discussion entry or something, so
 experienced mappers could look if there's something in need of review in
 their area.

 I'd be very careful to make sure this is voluntary; even a hint at a
 possible *mandatory* review process will immediately have everyone
 pointing out where this has got Google ;)

 Bye
 Frederik

 --
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Re: [OSM-talk] Attributing others' errors to OSM data and what to do about it. Was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue

[Michał Brzozowski]

100% true. Consumers don't respect (Polish word szanować beside to
respect means something like taking care of a thing, especially if
you got it from someone) our data. Most implementations are mediocre
to horrible. Main offenses are displaying irrelevant things, very
scarce tags support, partial and outright wrong translation of object
types, needless exposure of users to OSM data model (eg. directly
slapping raw opening_hours on the screen), and no understanding of
regional differences in address formats.

This sparked an idea in my mind some time ago. If anyone has
resources, they could make some sort of library/program (and maybe
distribute compiled data products) that does all these software has
to... cases, doing eg. access values inference and whatever the user
specifies, maybe normalization (conflating tags that mean the same, or
abstracting from tags whatsoever - example would be that shops come
with shop=* mostly, but some do with amenity=* - or that there are
services that are tagged as shop=*) or address/admin preprocessing
which apparently is SO tricky (people still often don't understand
that addr:place is there...)
Doing things once is beneficial, saving work and keeping bugs out.

Michał

On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 4:46 PM, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Totally agree - the oneway(=no) is being misinterpreted.

 OSM's BIG ISSUE is what to do about others misinterpreting OSM data and
 attributing the error to OSM.

 --
 Mike.
 @millomweb - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland
 via the area's premier website -

 currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property 
 pets

 TCs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Neat use of OpenStreetMap

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 9:54 PM, Robert Kaiser ka...@kairo.at wrote:

 Also, I really, really hope my access point will not get into any really
 open-to-everyone database because I don't want people to follow me around by
 database request when I'm moving somewhere and don't want to be easily
 found.

So, there's industry standard way to do this, add _nomap to your SSID.
Or just don't broadcast SSID whatsoever.
And BTW, you can possibly be already listed on WiGLE :-P

As the saying goes, wadriving is not a crime. If you transmit
anything into the public air, and people receive that just as intended
(that is no packet sniffing). you can't legally do anything about it.
_nomap is provided out of courtesy.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] Neat use of OpenStreetMap

[Michał Brzozowski]

This could be big. Remember that Mozilla Location Services does not
provide Wi-Fi data download due to privacy concerns (Which is BS in
my opinion). But with data downloads available, one can develop
off-line location services that could very well complement one of our
selling points, that is full off-line operation. I wonder whether
it's very hard to hack into location services of Android to seed GPS
location with this data for faster fix (assuming root is available).

Michał

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:
 OpenBMap

 It's similar to Google's location services or Mozilla's location service,
 but free.  You can make use of it as a location provider in Android using
 the OpenBMap plugin for microG unified NLP.  And you can contribute data as
 well using the Radiobeacon app.  Seems to be in it's very early stages right
 now, but could be a real powerhouse with a little extra effort.

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[OSM-talk] iD name suggestion index - asking non-English-speaking mappers to review

[Michał Brzozowski]

https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index

So this index is used in iD and it's supposed to suggest names of
shops/amenities that are part of some chain. (like: McDonald's, Aldi,
...). But due to how it works (counting occurrences) there are generic
nouns that end up here, which is bad tagging (like shop=bakery
name=Bakery [1]) and could form a feedback loop that proliferates them
even more.

I ask non-English speakers to find anything they are sure it's a noun
and not a proper name. name-suggestions.json specifies name
suggestions and filter.json specifies what non-names should be
filtered.

Some examples I found that need confirmation:

Аптека
Apotheke
Boulangerie
Пекарня
Зоомагазин
Обувь
Стройматериалы
Салон красоты


[1] For the sake of example, as Bakery is filtered already

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Re: [OSM-talk] PD: what can I do with automatic changes done against code of conduct

[Michał Brzozowski]

Quasi off-topic, but you should have written on users:Poland board on
forum.osm.org. The talk-pl mailing list is pretty much dead among
active (in terms of participation) OSM contributors.

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 10:39 PM, jan zejer zejer1...@wp.pl wrote:
 Hi,
 Recently I sent following message to imports list. Given the fact I did not 
 get any response and also, after some thought I am thinking it is more of 
 general topic, I'd like to ask you for advice. What do you think about the 
 problem?

 Jan

 Dnia Czwartek, 2 Kwietnia 2015 22:49 jan zejer  napisał(a)
 Hi,
 I'm not sure if this is a right place but I'll give it a try. I am having 
 some problems regarding automated edits which affected my local area and I 
 am not sure what can I do about it. Those are changesets which contain the 
 edits:

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/29768605
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/29768572
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/29768527
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/29768413

 The changes are part of bigger initiative which affects whole country. The 
 edits are about reformatting house numbers. In my opinion it doesn't really 
 matter what are those changes really about (but I'll get back to this 
 later), but how they were conducted (i.e. completely against Automated Edits 
 code of conduct)

 I tried to investigate reason behind the changes and find its documentation, 
 I could not find any. That's why I turned to my local community to point me 
 to resources behind the edit:
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-pl/2015-April/001689.html (in 
 Polish).

 Thankfully author of the changes took part in discussion. Basically he 
 admitted that he acted against OSM rules (there is no discussion, no 
 documentation of changes), but he justifies it by the fact he is doing right 
 thing. Also, he claims that he is part of OSM since 2007 and if I don't like 
 his changes I should find myself another mapping project (sic!).

 To sum this up:
  - Automatic changes were done against OSM rules.
  - Asking for explanation about it made me attacked by the author who 
 instead of explain me politely his reasoning, attacked me.
  - Author of the changes behaves like he is allowed to do more than other 
 community members because he's been around since 2007.

 So my questions are: is community supposed to run like this? What can I do 
 about it to fix it? Can I escalate this problem somewhere? Would it be ok if 
 I reverted those changes?

 Back to the changes itself. Those changes are about removing spaces from 
 addresses. Like 11 A becomes 11A. In my opinion it is a bad change 
 (people are using addresses with spaces, such addresses are being used in 
 government issued documents). People taking part in discussion (started by 
 me, after changes were conducted) are claiming this change is ok, because:
 - wiki article (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pl:Key:addr) says there 
 should be no spaces (but there is no source (like discussion) of this 
 statement)
 - one of Polish law acts indirectly states that *newly* created addresses 
 should not have spaces in them
 - some application from which addresses are sometimes imported to OSM does 
 not allow spaces in house numbers.

 But as I said, it's not about change itself (but the way it was conducted). 
 I am not sure whether I am right with spaces being in house numbers. What 
 disturbed me is fact that I was treated rudely because I asked questions and 
 I don't have 8 years of experience in OSM. Am I oversensitive or is there 
 something wrong?

 Jan






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Re: [OSM-talk] Quality of OSM Notes

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:
 Perhaps the most frustrating type of note is one where the writer clearly
 meant to help, but there's just not
 enough information available to act on it.

I can also relate to this. Any help on getting this is appreciated:
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/776

Maybe I could do research into an app which would allow for no-frills
GPS trace collection and upload to some service (actually this can be
done in HTML5 - you can ask specifically for GPS in geolocation API).
This way when someone complains about missing roundabout that happens
to be yet invisible in aerial photos, we could ask the person to get a
trace.

Another thing that would be nice: categorization of open notes (like:
needs more info, needs aerial photos/GPS traces, check later (ongoing
construction), etc)

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] this has to stop: iD user mistakes all over the place

[Michał Brzozowski]

I was wondering, what do you think (interpret this only as a question)
about introducing validation in iD in the future?

Using MAGIC integrated circuit design tool, that does DRC (Design Rule
Check) in real time and highlights errors inspired me that OSM editors
could also incorporate this. It makes sense to me. First, users will not be
overwhelmed by a sh**load of errors at once and second, they could learn
what they actually do wrong.

But this poses challenges, because sometimes when you're editing, there
will be a temporary error state, to disappear just when you finish a
sequence (e.g. you don't enter all tags at once so there will be a
transient place of worship without religion error.) That type of error
message should not happen, because spamming irrelevant errors only makes
users ignore them.

Still, there are checks that can be safely made in real time, like all
sorts of geometrical tests (self-intersections, building crossing another
building and so on.). Maybe good-enough heuristics could be applied for
when the user stopped editing a feature and moved on to another, to address
the temporary error issue.

Anyway, thanks in advance to anyone who makes iD more iDiot-proof. It
really matters a lot, for example there was press coverage (Polish News
Agency) back in 2014-08-18 that generated 500 or more new users who
obviously contributed a fair share of mistakes. There was simply no
manpower available to check edits of all the users, let alone message them
on what they did wrong.

Having no severe errors is quite a point of honor to me, as I think we must
try to be free of all these that cursed satnav told me to do this
situations. Steve Jobs once told something along the lines of We don't
ship junk. We make products that we could recommend to our family and
friends and surely anyone tech-savvy can relate to that feeling of
embarrassment when a cool gadget/software you show to your family happens
to betray you. Have your navigation lead you off-road (see: wrong road
tagging), people will tell that OSM is shit even though other map
products are not ideal as well.

Michał
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Re: [OSM-talk] this has to stop: iD user mistakes all over the place

[Michał Brzozowski]

Whoops. Good to know. Though it's still rudimentary ;) Not long ago I
tried to do intentionally do stupid things in iD demo in order to see
if it would stop me - it didn't.

There's one more face to iD and mistakes users make: translations. Bad
translations cause bad tagging. English terms don't always translate
1:1 so I think it is beneficial for a translator to deviate a little
when needed. Example: track was translated to Polish as droga
gruntowa (grunt is ground so translated back to English it's
unpaved road). Which of course is a bad idea, as people will tag
every single unpaved road as highway=track. I took a little liberty
and changed that to Droga polna lub leśna (Field or forest road)
which I think captures the essence more faithfully.

Michał

On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 3:00 AM, Tom MacWright t...@macwright.org wrote:
 Since two years ago, iD has an range of validations it runs on every
 potential changeset, as well as an interface to review  correct potential
 errors before saving them.

 https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/blob/master/js/id/validate.js#L1

 We welcome contributions to expand these, and have a few proposed additions
 which would be good places to start if you want to help:
 https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Avalidation

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Re: [OSM-talk] How We Map

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Jo Walsh metaz...@fastmail.net wrote:

 OpenStreetMap values community cohesion over data perfection.

Could both terms be more elaborated on?
Does data perfection in practice mean adding true but not really
useful things, often in not-well-thought-out way?
Because otherwise, we should strive to be perfect.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] guide to vandalism” in OSM?

[Michał Brzozowski]

I happen to fix a lot of notes in Poland.
For me it would be impractical to check every POI that I add from notes.
Mind you, I do the research in the Internet if it's a feature that
could possibly have a website (fire station, church, restaurant,
supermarket etc), but the only way to check some (eg. smaller shops)
would be to check on the ground. Unless there's a mapper in every
single municipality it's not practical to do so - drive a long way to
just check yep, it's there. Therefore sometimes I simply assume good
faith which in my opinion *is* sensible. But I mark any changesets or
POIs with source=notes.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] guide to vandalism” in OSM?

[Michał Brzozowski]

I think the person who added these fake notes misses the point in how
OSM actually works.
Wouldn't be for the trust and assumption of good faith, there would be no OSM!

@Pieren: You switch topics so easily that I'm not sure what are you
talking about precisely. Is your stance Someone showed that it is
easy to add fake notes, therefore we must assume that every single POI
added from notes is fake unless we prove it 100%? You seem to
overgeneralize, can someone prove that outsiders (ie. *not* people who
do this to bait mappers) really add so much fake notes that we should
not trust them?

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.28.0

[Michał Brzozowski]

Now this is a nice compromise. As much as I didn't like the old-new
color of buildings, this one looks much better. Good job ;)

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM Query for recent edits to area?

[Michał Brzozowski]

Also, for detailed before/after overview of a changeset, you may use
OSM History Viewer
http://osmhv.openstreetmap.de/index.jsp

Michał

On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 11:38 PM, Mike Thompson miketh...@gmail.com wrote:
 I just spoke to a class of college students, introduced them to OSM,
 and had them make a few edits on their campus.  I would like to review
 those edits.  Is there anyway in JOSM (or other software) to
 select/highlight the elements over the campus that have been edited
 during the past day?

 Thanks,

 Mike

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Imports] amenity=bicycle_repair_station :::: only 18 so far

[Michał Brzozowski]

The API is so simple you could POST a note with cURL - optionally
logging in via HTTP Basic Authentication. Check the Wiki.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6#Create_a_new_note:_Create:_POST_.2Fapi.2F0.6.2Fnotes

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] amenity=bicycle_repair_station :::: only 18 so far

[Michał Brzozowski]

Great idea. I added three in the Tricity area, Poland. Two at the
Gdańsk University of Technology campus, one at the InfoBox in Gdynia.
There may be more, but these are the ones I know of.

Anyway, if newer tagging scheme will be agreed upon, you may freely re-tag them.

On a side note: To be even more useful, these stations could feature a
vending machine (presumably electricity-less - like these with small
toys in capsules or... more adult-oriented stuff :P) selling tire
repair kits.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] Change: How mature is OpenStreetMap?

[Michał Brzozowski]

OSM is not mature IMO:

* People are making discussions that come to no conclusion, this is so
notorious.
* OSMF does very little work to actually promote OSM and improve its
ecosystem (the only things they do that matter are providing servers
and the SOTM)
* There is very little collaboration between OSM-related software
developers who aren't exactly aware how their actions shape OSM (on
the top of this would need much coding attitude of some - so why did
you choose to maintain it?)
* The enforcement of editing standards is very hard. There is always
that user who doesn't bother to ever come by the community forum.
(compare with Wikipedia)
* Software for monitoring OSM changes is still very rudimentary. I
wanna be the f**king NSA. It's incredibly hard to check newbies' work
quickly (eg. you have to load every changeset separately into OSMHV).
* Why do these newbies make so many mistakes? The documentation is a
mess, editor presets are incomplete (whereas they should include all
approved and other widely used features)
* Many important people are so defensive there is stagnation instead
of doing. You can only fully evaluate a concept by implementing it.
* Data consumers not exactly make OSM appear professional. It's hard
to come by apps that are nearly as professional as Google Maps or Here
Maps. They also almost never bother to consider country-specific stuff
(like how is an address written, proper handling of abbreviations).

Michał

On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Rob Nickerson
rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:
 There have been a couple of threads on OpenStreetMap’s mailing list this
 month to do with change. The first, entitled “Request for feedback: new
 building colours in openstreetmap-carto”, is all to do with a change to the
 way the default map style *looks* on openstreetmap.org. The second, “MEP –
 pipelines”, refers to a mechanical edit of the OpenStreetMap *data*. Both
 have been met with some level of resistance – but is this proportionate?

 Head over to
 http://www.mappa-mercia.org/2015/01/change-how-mature-is-openstreetmap.html
 and find out what I think :-)

 Your thoughts?

 I’d love to hear your thoughts on this – where is OpenStreetMap in its
 maturity and what level of change is appropriate? Is there anything you
 would like to see changed? And is there anything that must stay the same?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Monitoring route relations

[Michał Brzozowski]

There was OSMonitor by Paweł Paprota, but it is down for a long time.
Hopefully, as the source is available, one could repurpose it to add
the functionality you mentioned.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSMonitor

Michał

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com wrote:
 I try to find a tool that continuously monitors all members of a relation
 for changes. Specifically I would like to be informed automatically by email
 when any of the members of a bicycle route relation is modified.

 I am aware of the relation analyser sites that do this on request and only
 test for discontinuities in the relation.



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[OSM-talk] Experiences with graphical tablets and JOSM?

[Michał Brzozowski]

Hello there.
So from yesterday, in Polish Biedronka shops (similar to Lidl, Aldi)
there is a Wacom One S graphical tablet available for a really low
price. [1]
I'd like to ask about your experience with using graphical tablets
with OSM editors, preferably JOSM. My area of interest is tracing
roads, buildings (with building_tools), and finally, features like
lakes and forests (which could be the best use, since they tend to
have complex shapes - to be used with FastDraw plugin).
I hope that when I get responses, there will be still one available in
one of the many shops in my area ;-)

[1] 
http://www.biedronka.pl/pl/product,id,3727,name,tablet-graficzny-one-by-wacom-s

Cheers
Michał

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