Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Fair use?
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 6:55 PM, Prado, Renato (R.P.) rpr...@visteon.com wrote: Hello! Are you planning to just overlay your data over the background map as a separate and independent layer? If yes, then this would qualify as a collective work under CC and you just need to attribute OSM in the suggested way. Thanks a lot for your help. The idea is to leave the OSM maps intact serving as the background of my data cloud (which would be an unrelated database, locally stored, containing data and lat/lon coordinates), both during online viewing and in printed reports, with text properly stating that the maps are by OSM, licensed XYZ. My potential customers would pay for those reports. One image is worth a thousand words: http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQwFnmupPSmD2eqpE0dN0S9WlG0s-FzF rbr4gQzMYlkuvkwILkt=1usg=__9kS2vS-zZAo9ndGB4HU-H8foRaw= As per my understanding, this should qualify as a collective work since I would not be changing any of the maps and would properly acknowledge the OSM in both online and printed forms, but I would like to be sure prior to investing in this project. Well, here is a little idea, you can just distribute your data as a transparent png file or similar technique that can be overlayed over any map and let the users put it on top of what they want. mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Fair use?
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Prado, Renato (R.P.) rpr...@visteon.com wrote: Well, here is a little idea, you can just distribute your data as a transparent png file or similar technique that can be overlayed over any map and let the users put it on top of what they want. During online view the users would have the option of turning the data cloud overlay on/off, which clearly demonstrates the independence between the map and the data, but that would not be possible to do in printed form. Just print transparent plastic overlays. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Legal or not? user srpskicrv and source = TOPO 25 VGI BEOGRAD
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Valent Turkovic valent.turko...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 08:21:12 +0200, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Just an observation : These maps look just like if not identical to the russian topographical maps. mike Are russian topographical maps free usable with OSM? that is another contentious issue, they are defactor public domain IMHO. mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multiple OSM instances
I think this discussion should first be put on hold until we develop and test the technology needed. when it all works well, I am sure the main osm site will love to use it. mike On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Andrew Errington a.erring...@lancaster.ac.uk wrote: On Tue, October 5, 2010 23:50, 80n wrote: snip Are there any easy and simple steps that can be taken that could make the existence of multiple OSMs a whole lot less painful? Yes. Combine them all into one project. Call it OSM. Best wishes, Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Legal or not? user srpskicrv and source = TOPO 25 VGI BEOGRAD
Just an observation : These maps look just like if not identical to the russian topographical maps. mike On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Matija Nalis mnalis-n...@voyager.hr wrote: On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 09:41:00 +0100, Francis Davey fjm...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 October 2010 23:29, ed...@billiau.net wrote: The argument is really 'Is the Serbian government the legal successor of the Yugoslav government in Serbian territories?' If (say) Serbia were to use OSMF or an OSM user in London, the local court would have to decide whether - as a matter of UK copyright law - Serbia were entitled to a copyright in the maps/data/whatever and if so whether it could be enforced. The Berne Convention requires that we afford the same protection to foreign copyrights as we do our own, so a court in England might well decide that Serbia could enforce these copyrights. Ditto pretty much any court in any country that was a signatory to the Convention. Of course there are massive caveats here: there might be no copyright in the data; Well, ex-Yugoslavia (as well as todays Serbia) were/are both Berne convention signatories. The maps in question are from 1970s it seems, and copyright in YU was 70 years AFAIR at the time the YU falled. So all singnatories to Berne convention should be still protecting that works. Now, if I understand you correctly, you propose 2 scenarions: a) if it is likely that Serbia is successor to Yugoslavia, that the maps in question are still protected (unless Serbia relinquieshed copyright on them, which AFAIK it didn't), or b) if the Serbia is not successor to Yugoslavia (at least in the matter of aforementioned copyright on maps), than that maps may be out of copyright. While I agree with (a), the (b) does not seem right to me. IMHO, if Serbia is not accepted as successor to Yugoslavia (and the matter was not resolved by succession), then the copyright owner is missing - and should behave like any other case of missing or unknown copyright owner (for example, if author without successors died; or if the work was under pseudonym and never reveled). And that behaviour is, to the best of my knowledge, that the copyright work remains protected with all rights reserved (only practical difference being that potential users now have 0% chance of buying rights from owner anymore, as she's gone). (At least it looks so in Croatian copyright law which is mostly the same as the ex-Yugoslav/Serbian one. Are you perhaps arguing that under UK law if the copyright owner is not known or is not proactively suing copyright breakers, one can legaly copy copyrighted works, and is not in vioalation until he receives and ignores cease and desist letter ?) no-one might bother to sue anyway (I've no idea how aggressively Serbia would try to enforce rights it believed it had). Uh, that one (are the chances we won't be caught breaking law low enough today?) should not be the way to handle this (or similar) issues, IMHO. Unauthorized copying of copyrighted works is illegal. The possibly high chances that copyright owners might not notice or might not be bothered to sue ATM does not make it legal. -- Opinions above are GNU-copylefted. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-talk] Fwd: SFK100 Press Release
Prishtina Hosts Second International Conference on Software Freedom For the second year running the Kosovar Association for Free/Libre and Open Source Software (FLOSSK) and the University of Prishtina are organizing a conference dedicated to free software - Software Freedom Kosova Conference 2010. This conference follows upon the success of SFK09 held in August last year attended by more than 500 participants and over 40 national and international speakers and professionals. SFK10 will take place on 25 and 26 September starting at 9:00 in the venues of the Faculty of Electrical and Computer Engineering of the University of Prishtina. This year the conference will host several notable hacker keynotes. Leon Shiman will speak on the use of FLOSS in public administration; Rob Savoy of Gnash project will talk about network protocols; Mikel Maron will speak on the geopolitical use of open maps and Peter Salus, historian of operating systems, will lecture on the history of development of GNU/Linux. Overall, over 20 topics will be discussed, ranging from issues associated with the Free Encyclopedia Wikipedia, GNU/Linux, intellectual property licenses, building of communities, OpenStreetMap, Sugar, and many other topics in the field of free software. Topics to be discussed and the quality of lecturers, along with the success of last year's conference make SFK10 the largest conference of its kind in Southeast Europe. The conference is held under the auspices of the Office of the Prime Minister of the Republic of Kosovo and is supported by a number of donors from whom it is worth mentioning: the Ministry of Energy and Mining, Mozilla, Rrota, PC World Albanian and the University of Prishtina Student Center. The conference is free to participants during the two days. The presentations and detailed information on the conference can be found at www.kosovasoftwarefreedom.org -- For Immediate Release FLOSS Kosova i...@flossk.org On Sep 22, 3:04 pm, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: here is a rough translation of the press release : Pristina is the conference host software ***On 25 and 26 September Pristina will be hosted for the second time Freedom Conference Software Kosovo.*** *FLOSS SFK10 Kosovo, organized by the Faculty of Electrical and Computer Engineering (FIEK) of the University of Pristina.* SFK09 held last year was attended by about 500 people who attended about 40 lectures of 25 lecturers. This time the conference will be focused: the 24 lectures will be from Kosovo, region and world. The main and guest lecturers at the same time honor of this conference are renowned as hackers Leon Shiman, Rob Savoye, Mikel Maro and Peter Salus.Shiman's Foundation board member who oversees the development of graphical system for Linux and BSD - x.org, and the owner of Shiman Associates consulting firm. Savoye is the primary developer of Gnash as previously developed for Debian, Red Hat and Yahoo. Savoye has been programming since 1977. Maron specializes in programming applications based on geography and location. Maron is OpenStreeMap Foundation board member, a service similar to Google Maps. Salus is a linguist, computer scientist and historian of technology. He worked a professor and dean at several universities. But this is only the result of the work of the organizing committee which is preparing the conference program for almost a year . Other topics will provide for all the little: Milot Shala will directly demonstrate the Qt Framework development of Nokia's, Martin will tell Bekkelund Norwegian practices with open source code (open source) in state administration, Baki Goxhaj will talk about WordPress, Marco Fioretti will show how programming languages can be used in schools. Other topics are Wikipedia, CAD, use of EU's funds in Open Source, Sugar platform for children, CMS systems for universities, Android platform, etc.. The conference will be held on the premises of FIEK-regulation. Free Registration begins on Saturday at 9:00 pm and during the two days program starts at 10:00. The conference is supported financially by the Office of the Prime Minister, Wheel, PC World and New OpenWorld.al. For more visit the official website of Kosovo Organization free software and open - FLOSS Kosovo http://kosovasoftwarefreedom.org/ . */ telegraph /* * * On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Luca Paolo Pescatore multiva...@gmail.com wrote: Ehm great... should I send to TechCrunch and other EN/US websites in Albanian ? :) Is it possible to have a PR in English ? Luca On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 12:54 PM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Bernard Writes : The attached notice has been published today in Gazeta Express and I have sent it to: Telegrafi, Koha Ditore and RTKlive.com. You can use this to send to other media and maybe invite them to come. Also
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Albertas Agejevas a...@pov.lt wrote: But FlightGear, for instance, currently uses cooked scenery files, distributing OSM data separately is not an option. So it is not included at all. (I am not associated with FlightGear). would it not be possible to create a separate so that contains the cooked code? mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:40 AM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Tue, 31 Aug 2010, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: actually I feel that you treated this issue a little negligent. The import guidelines stated since 5 March 2008 (quote): At the time of writing (spring 2008), For me, I heard about the new license, but never considered that this new license would be incompatible. yes, I was negligent in understanding this important fact, but I find it also a bad idea (no compatibility). anyway, I don't fully understand the new license and really, being conservative, I will wait until it works and then jump on the boat later. mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 2:04 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/8/31 Liz ed...@billiau.net: On Tue, 31 Aug 2010, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: actually I feel that you treated this issue a little negligent. The import guidelines stated since 5 March 2008 (quote): At the time of writing (spring 2008), well spring isn't in March (here) spring starts shortly so whoever wrote that was a little careless. due to the fantastic wiki-software I was nevertheless able to derive the date when this note was amended. cheers, Martin btw.: The imported dataset seems to be this one (I followed a link in the wiki): Source: 25k Topographic Map Map: VGI (Vojno Geografski Institut Jugoslavije) Yugoslav Military Geographic Institute Years: 1970's and early 80's Classes: No classification (categorization) Features: Line Feature Class Coverage: about ~50% - 60% 30 year old uncategorized roads derived from 25k topographic maps. I am aware that this is better than nothing, but it is IMHO not at all an argument against the license change. that is just one file of many. we have other imports as well. more coming. thanks, mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing
I second that. Jane Smith janesmith...@gmail.com this is a fake account, just causing problems. On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 6:51 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Jane Smith janesmith...@gmail.com wrote: copyright are the chains of the modern worker, holding to the means of Production. Are there any moderators here? Can we get this troll banned please. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 6:49 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Maybe we shouldn't abandon the relicensing effort, but start a new relicensing effort, focussed on fixing the problems with CC-BY-SA without adding on a dozen other special interest fixes like Produced Works and Contributor Terms and Contract Law. hear hear, finally a good idea! ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Beautiful maps for a travel blog reviews site
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 4:12 AM, Joe Richards geojoeli...@gmail.com wrote: Unique colours/look and feel - we already have that, but perhaps it's time to give up our own map rendering engine and look at Mapnik etc. We can create a tile server, although obviously avoiding so would be desirable if it can be done without causing too much impact on any one source server (perhaps we can retrieve and cache tiles) mapnik is going to needs its own server for rendering. no way to put that on the main server if you have any load. mapnik is very very hungry. mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Duane, I wonder how Frederik is going to rationalise having the Kosovo information removed, I haven't made a statement about the Kosovo information. I'm sure that whoever has imported it has made sure it would be compatible with future license changes as suggested on the imports Wiki page for ages. Not at all, I never consider that OSm would move to an incompatible contract system and away from copyright/copyleft. That idea is totally alien to me. I have trusted that OSMF would treat the old data as valuable, if they don't, then it is not my problem. mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Francis Davey fjm...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 August 2010 00:40, Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com wrote: Mike, my understanding (and I think Grant will agree) is that copyleft is an idea: I publish something in such a way that coerce others into sharing their work with me. The implementation details of that idea (copyright law, contract law, unenforceable moral clauses etc) is left to the lawyers and the managers. As follows: if X uses your data under a contract with you that requires use in a particular way (eg to mimic something like the GPL) and X, in breach of that agreement, passes data to Y then barring certain special circumstances (such as X and Y colluding) it will be virtually impossible to prevent Y from using the data in any way they please. unless the work is copyrighted or copylefted as well. What right does Y have to the data to begin with? under copyright law, he has no rights. Of course if there's an IP right as well Y might be breaching that, but then you wouldn't need to use the contract, only a licence. yes, i think i see what you are saying: the license will be the only protection against third party abuse. I think that copyleft is good enough. mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licence Implementation plan - declines or non-responses
my question is, why dont you just make a fork for the new license and leave the rest of us to continue in peace? get the new system working and then we can talk about it. mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Eric Jarvies e...@csl.com.mx wrote: As follows: if X uses your data under a contract with you that requires use in a particular way (eg to mimic something like the GPL) and X, in breach of that agreement, passes data to Y then barring certain special circumstances (such as X and Y colluding) it will be virtually impossible to prevent Y from using the data in any way they please. unless the work is copyrighted or copylefted as well. What right does Y have to the data to begin with? under copyright law, he has no rights. Y has everything to do with the data, in the context explained above. The point is; it is already difficult(and expensive, time consuming) to defend rights on said data, it will become even moreso. Perfect. So the new license is being shown as possibly non effective against such an attack. Even if someone could then use data and reverse engineer it, if I see someone who copies my work 1-1 there might be some protection. If they find a way to extract the points and use them commercially and legally, then maybe they will also fall victim to the same tactics. It is not said that we cannot use the same weapons against them, if they end up stealing our data legally, then we can just legally steal their changes back, no? What if the data is locked down by all these NDS and contracts, but someone posts it to wikileaks? Then it could be downloaded and facts extracted by out. This will need more thought. Copyleft is at least very simple. - My conclusion is, if it aint broke, dont fix it. As stated before, let the proponents of the new license setup a beta test server and let people import changesets as they wish. OSMF has enough servers. I have the feeling that the big players pushing for the new license also have some cash to spend on this as well. Then we can see what is really going to happen without destabilizing the great thing we have build up to now. The community can then decide what and when they want to contribute. Users should have to choice to post changes to one or many servers. These types of features are sorely needed anyway in osm, we need to support multiple distributed servers, we need more robustness. All big companies use beta trials, why not osm? mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licence Implementation plan - declines or non-responses
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 2:03 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: ...why should the onus of forking be on the license-change agreers? If this is indeed the case, then the ones who should fork are those for CC-BY-SA 2.0. because the license change is not going to work in the first try. Technically you need a beta test phase. never change a running system. Get it running first, dont break what we have already. mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [Talk-de] 1 Jahr Lähmung von OSM durch Lizenzwec hsel?
2010/8/29 Tirkon tirko...@yahoo.de: Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Im Zuge des Lizenzwechsel wird man irgendwann programmieren müssen. Wieso kann man nicht ein Tag beschließen, mit dem ein User ein Objekt markieren kann und das aussagt, dass er dieses Objekt ohne Zuhilfenahme des bisherigen Zustandes neu gemappt hat. Dieses Tag kann dann später beim Lizenzwechsel ausgewertet werden. Wenn die Ursprungsversion nicht auf die neue Lizenz passt, wird sie durch die erste ersetzt, die das Bestätigungstag hat. Was spricht dagegen? deswegen mein Vorschlag : aufsetzen von einem neuen , getrennten OSM instanz mit der zusätzlichen Funktion bestehende nodes, changesets, etc auf wünsch importieren zu können. Danach habe wir wohl die Markierung: eine neue Karte wobei jeder Punkt auch einen Besitzer (oder auch mehrere) hat, die dem Lizenz zugestimmt haben. Wir müssen noch eine history/log Funktion haben, um den Verlauft nachvollziehen zu können. Danach kann jeder das reviewing und auch Einspruch erheben, es wird im ursprüngs-osm was weiterhin laufen wird, die history Sichbar sein. Ich denke, wir brauchen eine Beta-Version, einen Test server für den neuen Lizenz. Es darf nicht an unserem Live-Server rumgespielt werden. Never change a running system. Die Umstellung wird sowieso nicht sofort klappen, egal wie gut geplannt es ist. mfg, mike ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Compatibility of new license with old
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 5:56 PM, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: On 27 August 2010 10:28, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: On 08/27/2010 04:43 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: I would like to know if the new license is compatible with the old one. will we be able to use CC-SA-2.0 licensed data or we will have to get new contracts with the donators of data? for example, we have gotten much of the data for Kosovo donated under written contract for CC-SA-20, many users helped import this data into osm. even if those users agree to relicense, it does not mean that the original data can be relicensed. (I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.) The new licence is incompatible with the old. BY-SA 2.0 data cannot be placed under it without the rightsholder agreeing to relicence. Indeed. But the new licence is more compatible with other licences (including the old) where you want to produce mash ups and other works that combine data from more than one source. Guys, so you are saying that I will have to go back to all the people who donated data and relicense that so other people will be able to use their data in a more commercial manner? I think that some will say no. The problem is that we got data also from some GIS companies who wanted non commercial only. The cc protected them in some way. I will have to go back and rework all the contracts. I hope that someone will host the kosovo data after osm will delete it. what a mess. mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Compatibility of new license with old
On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Renaud MICHEL r.h.michel+...@gmail.com wrote: Le samedi 28 août 2010 à 11:14, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com a écrit : The problem is that we got data also from some GIS companies who wanted non commercial only. The cc protected them in some way. I will have to go back and rework all the contracts. (as this is legal-talk, I must say that IANAL, thi sis only my personal understanding) Then you are already in problem, because the actual license used by OSM, CC- BY-SA, does not forbid commercial use (it doesn't have an NC clause). So if some companies provided you data with a non-commercial clause it is already incompatible with the current license used by OSM, so I guess such data should be removed, or a better agreement has to be found with tose companies. yes of course, originally they wanted non commercial, I was able to convince them to use CCSA. we got the data under CC-SA-2.0 i am just saying that it was a compromise for them. The companies want to protect their data and you have to show them that the new license offers them the same protection or better than the old. mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: On 28 August 2010 15:37, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: please see this as well, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ODbL_comments_from_Creative_Commons What is missing there is that Creative Commons have said that a CC-BY-SA license is not suitable for a database of factual information. Quote: Creative Commons does not recommend using Creative Commons licenses for informational databases, such as educational or scientific databases. Reference: http://sciencecommons.org/old/databases/ Creative Commons gave up in their attempt to creates a Sharealike/Attribution license for factual information: Reference: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2009-February/001982.html Well, lets look at this for a minute. We started out endorsing the use of CC licenses on the copyrightable elements of databases but not the data itself. After about three years of research we decided that was a really Bad Thing if what we wanted was data integration. Factual information is one thing, the fact that the Eiffel tower is in paris can be copied, but the osm map of the Eiffel tower is not really the fact, but someones copyrightable elements, someone drew it there based on facts. Really, I am not worried about data integration, but getting data. It does not bother me that other people cannot just take my work and use it under a different license. My purpose in creating a map is just that, to create a map, to share it, to work with others to create a good map. Integration with other maps is not the purpose or the goal. ODbL solves the issues they had with the produced works provision. ODbL is a license that was designed with OpenStreetMap in mind by the legal team from Open Data Commons. It covers factual information and preserves the Attribution and Share-Alike provisions that exist under our CC-BY-SA license. So why is it not compatible? why do we need to relicense? they say the odbl is not a copyleft license but a contract... Yes it is true that it is a contract. It is contructed this way to make sure that internationally everyone gets the same deal. European Union has the Database Directive but most other countries do not. I strongly believe the ODbL is a copyleft license. The GPL software license was used as a model for creating the ODbL. copyleft is not a contract, it is copyleft. copyleft is based on copyright and not a contract. please reread the gpl, read moglen; http://emoglen.law.columbia.edu/my_pubs/lu-12.html The essence of copyright law, like other systems of property rules, is the power to exclude. The copyright holder is legally empowered to exclude all others from copying, distributing, and making derivative works. This right to exclude implies an equally large power to license--that is, to grant permission to do what would otherwise be forbidden. Licenses are not contracts: the work's user is obliged to remain within the bounds of the license not because she voluntarily promised, but because she doesn't have any right to act at all except as the license permits. Basically , you are asking us to give up our copyright and contract our data out to you, but what do we get in return? I don't see a need for this at all. -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 1:40 AM, Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 1:12 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Yes it is true that it is a contract. It is contructed this way to make sure that internationally everyone gets the same deal. European Union has the Database Directive but most other countries do not. I strongly believe the ODbL is a copyleft license. The GPL software license was used as a model for creating the ODbL. copyleft is not a contract, it is copyleft. copyleft is based on copyright and not a contract. please reread the gpl, read moglen; http://emoglen.law.columbia.edu/my_pubs/lu-12.html Mike, my understanding (and I think Grant will agree) is that copyleft is an idea: I publish something in such a way that coerce others into sharing their work with me. The implementation details of that idea (copyright law, contract law, unenforceable moral clauses etc) is left to the lawyers and the managers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyleft no, copyleft is only based on copyright. sorry. As giving rights to OSMF: It is just a pooling mechanism. Instead of 10,000 contributors each having their own opinion about the next license, we then only have a few ideas and the decision is made by voting. Then a few contributors can't block something good because they're having a bad day. That is a completely different issue, that is copyright assignment or IP pooling. mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons
please see this as well, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ODbL_comments_from_Creative_Commons they say the odbl is not a copyleft license but a contract... On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 3:59 PM, TimSC mappingli...@sheerman-chase.org.uk wrote: On 28/08/10 14:47, Joe Richards wrote: For those of us who perhaps haven't watched all of the threads too carefully, is there such a thing as a list of the issues the new ODbL was intended to address (its pros) and the problems that those who wish to stick to the CC-by-SA license perceive with the switch (cons)? Here are two lists, but they might not be complete: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Why_You_Should_Vote_Yes http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Why_You_Should_Vote_No The ODbL proposal document and supporting pages sums up the pro case quite well: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/File:License_Proposal.pdf http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/We_Are_Changing_The_License TimSC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Compatibility of new license with old
Hello, I would like to know if the new license is compatible with the old one. will we be able to use CC-SA-2.0 licensed data or we will have to get new contracts with the donators of data? for example, we have gotten much of the data for Kosovo donated under written contract for CC-SA-20, many users helped import this data into osm. even if those users agree to relicense, it does not mean that the original data can be relicensed. please advise, thanks, mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [Talk-de] CCBYSA Fork - Jetzt will ich's wissen
2010/8/24 NopMap ekkeh...@gmx.de: - Jeder Anbieter zählt einmal, egal wieviele Karten er baut. Deine und meine eigenen Karten zählen nicht mit. wieviele gibt es jetzt? das würde mich mal interessieren ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
Hi, forgive my ignorance, but are the licenses not some how compatible? I mean the work has been done up to now under ccsa20 and compatible license. So that means that the new license allows data from ccsa20 to be ported over, right? or do you need the permission of the new authors? if people want to continue without changing the license, would they be allowed to? Is this discussed fork really needed? thanks for filling me in, mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] FIS-Broker Kartenanzeige Grünanlagenbe stand Berlin
Hi, Othophotos sind schwierig, meistens haben die Ämter nicht mal selbst die Rechte um die zu vergeben. Shapefiles von Kinderspielplätze und Grünanlagen dürften viel einfacher sein. lass uns einen Meeting mit den machen, alle zusammen. mfg mike 2010/8/20 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: Am 20. August 2010 06:33 schrieb jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com Ich habe eine interessante Karte für Berlin gefunden,kann man dann benutzen? hat jemand dort Kontakt? OK, das war die Frage, ob jemanden das schon geklärt hat. Ich würde mal vorschlagen das wir einen Meeting mit den mal ausmachen, vielleicht machen Sie ja eine Ausnahmen. ich poste das auch mal weiter auf die Berlin-Liste, vielleicht gibt's von da einen neuen Stand. Die Senatsverwaltung hat ja noch massenhaft weitere Layer und Dienste, z.B. werden jährlich (oder 2-jährlich) Orthofotos in sehr hoher Auflösung vom kompletten Stadtgebiet aufgenommen, es gibt ein WMS mit vielen Layern etc., aber wie überall in Deutschland kann man das derzeit nicht direkt für OSM nutzen. Soweit ich weiss, wurde deshalb auch schon angefragt, aber vielleicht haben die ja mittlerweile ihre Meinung über OSM geändert. Meiner Ansicht nach sind die Aussichten 5-10% ;-). Viel Erfolg! Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] FIS-Broker Kartenanzeige Grünanlagenbe stand Berlin
Hallo, Ich habe eine interessante Karte für Berlin gefunden, kann mann dan benutzen? hat jemand dort Kontakt? http://www.stadtentwicklung.berlin.de/umwelt/stadtgruen/gruenanlagen/de/karte/index.shtml mfg, mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] FIS-Broker Kartenanzeige Grünanlagenbe stand Berlin
2010/8/19 Walter Nordmann walter.nordm...@web.de: Ich habe eine interessante Karte für Berlin gefunden,kann mann dan benutzen? hat jemand dort Kontakt? schau mal hier: http://www.stadtentwicklung.berlin.de/kontakt/impressum.shtml und hier: http://www.stadtentwicklung.berlin.de/umwelt/stadtgruen/gruenanlagen/de/kontakt/index.shtml impressum und kontakt JEDER webseite sind immer wichtig. ausserdem sollte es allen klar sein, dass man sowas in 99.99% aller fälle nicht nutzen darf. OK, das war die Frage, ob jemanden das schon geklärt hat. Ich würde mal vorschlagen das wir einen Meeting mit den mal ausmachen, vielleicht machen Sie ja eine Ausnahmen. mfg, mike ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-us] Arkansas state road data Open The Data
thanks for sharing this. I was looking into the lake norfork mapping, there is very little there. are the lakes and rivers of AR also in this dataset? mike On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 3:23 AM, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote: Learon Dalby gave a talk at US State of the Map regarding road centerline data. For slides of the presentation, see http://www.slideshare.net/learondalby/open-the-data My summary is that he has gathered each county's GIS data over a period of time and now has the entire state's data with a license (PD?) that allows importing into OSM. I haven't looked in detail at the Arkansas TIGER data, but it was likely gathered before all roads had been assigned names. Possibly the TIGER geometry is not as good as the current data from the counties. The proposal is 1.) Use the GIS road centerline data to replace untouched TIGER data in OSM across the state of Arkansas. 2.) Establish a system to allow updates to the multiple databases over time - not necessarily an automated 'sync operation', but a bidirectional feed of changes. OSM changes within an area would be fed back to the state GIS, then on to the county GIS where they would decide to use it if applicable. County changes would propagate back to OSM in the form of some type of change set that someone could review and apply to OSM data if applicable. In OSM terms, this would include the edits that break a way into many smaller ways for bridges, speed limits, lane counts, traffic lights, surface, sidewalk attributes, public transportation routes, etc. In the possibly similar case of Massachusetts, I cannot tell from the wiki whether they used the state centerlines instead of TIGER, or if they had replaced TIGER with MASSGIS data. It is of utmost importance to preserve any roadways touched by a human mapper. In AR, these roads consist of mostly Interstates and US highways that have been fixed up for proper routing and relations. To a lesser extent, some edits are from the attack of the duplicate node bots near county borders. I did a study for the state of Arkansas to determine how many roads have been touched so far: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AtqECyNeMFlGdF9PTl8yR1dVdzJUZERyMEZtcG5sT0Ehl=en For purposes of this study, I have treated the Un-abbreviation bot edits as unedited, if version=2. The Un-abbreviation bot can be run again later if necessary, or applied to the incoming AR GIS data before importing it. Note that there are 3 worksheet tabs on the bottom of the spreadsheet. There is one active mapper in the city of Little Rock; he has touched many roads as he has improved the map in that area. Carl Anderson gave an excellent talk on their experience in importing county GIS data in some of the Atlanta region. Based on his experience, it is unlikely that the entire process can be automated. It will be some form of manually deleting the unedited TIGER ways, then stitching the AR GIS data to any existing edited roads. Most roads have not been touched, so remote, unedited counties would import with less labor. Any techniques used here could be applied to other states with PD road centerline data. This is the limit of my knowledge - I have no experience with the tools Carl mentioned that can assist with importing data into an existing system, and I haven't looked at the AR GIS data to see what other challenges may lie ahead. So I'm passing the ball to the next data import enthusiast... ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[OSM-talk] register now for the Hackerbus from Berlin to Vlore, Albania for the FREESB10 Conference on Sept 11-12
Hi, We are organzing a bus to go to Vlore for the freesb conference (http://flossal.org/freesb-2010-conference/) Register now for the Hackerbus from Berlin, Germany to Vlore for the FREESB10 free software conference on the beach! We are also working on a bus from Paris, France as well. you can register now online : http://tinyurl.com/HackerBusVlore or just send a mail to regis...@flossk.org Sept 11-12, Vlora, Albania. Estimated leaving time 9th of Sept. Estimate return time 15th. ca 170 € per person round trip total costs (if you camp), around 190€ for hotel. The bus has 48 seats and costs in total around 7500€. Plan is to camp at the former Naval Academy in vlore , the uni vlore has showers, toilettes and wlan there. You will need a tent. Hotels are also available, they cost around 20€ per night for a nice one. First come first serve, we will have to collect money in advance to pay for the bus. Also people are welcome to get on at any part of the trip, but we need to cover the total costs, so we could look for people to travel the first part of the trip to reduce costs. See you in september on the beach! mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] register now for the Hackerbus from Berlin to Vlore, Albania for the FREESB10 Conference on Sept 11-12
Silly me, the tinyurl directed to the edit page, that is access protected, here is the proper link : http://tinyurl.com/HackerBusVlore2 https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dHBhb2xhTnJZSnV6OHI4cXRySW1MNkE6MQ Sorry, mike On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 6:56 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, We are organzing a bus to go to Vlore for the freesb conference (http://flossal.org/freesb-2010-conference/) Register now for the Hackerbus from Berlin, Germany to Vlore for the FREESB10 free software conference on the beach! We are also working on a bus from Paris, France as well. you can register now online : http://tinyurl.com/HackerBusVlore or just send a mail to regis...@flossk.org Sept 11-12, Vlora, Albania. Estimated leaving time 9th of Sept. Estimate return time 15th. ca 170 € per person round trip total costs (if you camp), around 190€ for hotel. The bus has 48 seats and costs in total around 7500€. Plan is to camp at the former Naval Academy in vlore , the uni vlore has showers, toilettes and wlan there. You will need a tent. Hotels are also available, they cost around 20€ per night for a nice one. First come first serve, we will have to collect money in advance to pay for the bus. Also people are welcome to get on at any part of the trip, but we need to cover the total costs, so we could look for people to travel the first part of the trip to reduce costs. See you in september on the beach! mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Update from Kosovo and Albania
Hi, Just got back online after my trip to Kosovo and Albania. 1. we signed a letter of unterstanding with the director of public services in Prizren. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5229105l=6779a29f22id=523456582 We have permission to use the city map data http://staging.mapwarper.net/maps/2391 and other maps. I have recieved 90mb of dxf and pdfs file to process. We have also founded flossk prizren with 10 people, I gave them 2 of the gps devices that drlizau sponsored. THanks drliz. We have still gotten no support from the gpstogo even that we have asked many times. 2. I met with the vice mayor of shkoder, he said that we are ok to use the map data with the street names and that It is public domain.# http://staging.mapwarper.net/maps/2390 . We also met with Fred Zefi who arranged the meeting. He is interested in having some of the flossk members to come to shkoder and give some OSM training to some of the computer guys from the orphanage he is running. They came for a short visit to our Kick off party in shengjin, Albania. 3. We are in discusion with UNICEF about working together on some OSM stuff. They are working on some mobile phone location tools that use GSM tower triangulation. I think it would be very interesting to start mapping the mobile phone towers at least in prishtina and the other big cities where our maps are pretty complete. 4. We have still also the DXF maps of prishtina to do, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kosovo_Prishtina_Streets_Tracing 5. We have also the in your pocket maps of shkoder to process and have permission to use this data : http://www.inyourpocket.com/albania/shkodra 6. Also we have the huge amount of data from the TPGInc http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Albania_TPGInc_Import and Agim Kompani http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AlbanianFloodingCrisisCamp/AgimKompaniData that has full coverage of albania. So you can see that we have hundreds of hours of tracing work to do and we need your help! please join the effort! Also thanks to all the people who have been helping, you know who you are! thanks, mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Licence of Soviet military topographic maps
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Thu, 1 Jul 2010, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: just checked one of these maps. and interestingly it contains data which is most likely copied from official maps which are not in PD. Well that was the issue with OS, the ordinance survery in UK, the said that the russian maps stole the information from them. see this : http://images.jomidav.com/sovietmaps/OSstatement.pdf more info: http://www.southampton.ac.uk/cartography/sovietmaps/info.html http://sovietmaps.com/history mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] Daten vom Katatsteramt: dxf oder shape?
Es gibt ja zwei Versionen, die alte version, braucht eine Bibliothek von ODA, und diese bekommt mann nur under NDA. Ansonsten die von svn, die branch, ist anscheinedn neu, und die braucht das DirectDWG anscheinend nicht. mfg, mike On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Sven Geggus li...@fuchsschwanzdomain.dewrote: jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Note: The normal GDAL/OGR source has a DXF only, but read-write [ driverhttp://www.gdal.org/ogr/drv_dxf.html]. This seems to be a fairly new thing (1.7.x?) as there is no dxf support on my Version of gdal (1.6.3) from Debian testing. Sven -- The main thing to note is that when you choose open source you don't get a Windows operating system. (from http://www.dell.com/ubuntu) /me is gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] having anonymous internet users editing the map
yes, that is planned in my upcoming gwtosm port. http://wiki.github.com/h4ck3rm1k3/GWTOsm/ The Plan is to be able to edit locally, save your changes as an osm file, host them on the server where the program is installed, publically or privately, and share them with each other via git or bit torrents. On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 2:08 PM, lulu-...@gmx.de wrote: Hi there, there is a plan to publish a map where anybody can edit OSM. The data is not forwarded to the OSM database directly but written into .osm files for upload with JOSM. The upload is planned to be done manually with a single user account. I am worried that web users (or even commercial map providers) might add copyrighted data. Is the uploader reliably? I guess yes. What will happen to him? * A bot to revert the edits? * A suspended account? * Any legal consequences. The map is a cool idea and great realization. As the topic of the map is discussed controversely, vandalism is likely to happen, I am afraid. I expect that there will be so many edits that the uploader will not be able to check the data before upload. The uploader is resistent against my warnings. (YES. Against MY warnings... ;-) ) Help! Regards Lulu-Ann -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [Talk-de] Daten vom Katatsteramt: dxf oder shape?
I heard about this code on irc : http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/log/trunk/gdal/ogr/ogrsf_frmts/dxf?rev=19915 I have been reverse engineering some of the opendwg usage patterns, http://github.com/h4ck3rm1k3/InDirectDWG http://github.com/h4ck3rm1k3/gdal_dxfdwg_no_oda http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/wiki/DxfDwg The DXFDWG driver is currently a write-only driver dependent on the Open Design Alliance DWGdirect libraries for writing to the DWG and DXF formats. The DWGdirect library is not open source, though it is offered under fairly permissive terms. Because the driver implementation includes adapted portions of the DWGdirect source code, it has had to be moved out of the normal GDAL/OGR source distribution (#1816http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/ticket/1816) and now lives in http://svn.osgeo.org/gdal/spike/dxfdwghttp://svn.osgeo.org/gdal/spike/dxfdwg. Note: The normal GDAL/OGR source has a DXF only, but read-write [ driverhttp://www.gdal.org/ogr/drv_dxf.html]. On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Sven Geggus li...@fuchsschwanzdomain.dewrote: jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: außerdem gibt es eine dxf Konverter in ogr, gdal/ogr seit wann? Sven -- The source code is not comprehensible (found in bug section of man 8 telnetd on Redhat Linux) /me is gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk] Licence of Soviet military topographic maps
On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 7:42 AM, Kirill Bestoujev bestou...@gmail.comwrote: No, they are not out of copyright. All the rights of USSR were transfered to Russian Federation. Neither USSR, nor Russian Federation ever transferred those maps to public domain or in any other way allowed free use of them. Most of that maps were stolen from exUSSR military bases in republics, which separated from USSR in 90-s. In Russia disclosing of such maps (not 100k, they were openly publiched, but 50k) is still a crime - treason. There was such a case a month ago. SO: old USSR military maps are not allowed to be used in OSM. Oh really? I read that they were sold. We had purchased them and were using them, also for osm. The consensus was that they are public domain. lets straighten this out. http://www.mail-archive.com/talk@openstreetmap.org/msg27951.html mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Licence of Soviet military topographic maps
We purchased them from this site : http://mapstor.com/ Here the same data is available from a usaid sponsored project : http://www.bunkertrails.org/maps.php On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 8:28 AM, Eugene Iline evge...@ily.in wrote: Have you really officially purchased them from Russian government, its military divisions or perhaps from Roskartografiya? 2010/6/24 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 7:42 AM, Kirill Bestoujev bestou...@gmail.comwrote: No, they are not out of copyright. All the rights of USSR were transfered to Russian Federation. Neither USSR, nor Russian Federation ever transferred those maps to public domain or in any other way allowed free use of them. Most of that maps were stolen from exUSSR military bases in republics, which separated from USSR in 90-s. In Russia disclosing of such maps (not 100k, they were openly publiched, but 50k) is still a crime - treason. There was such a case a month ago. SO: old USSR military maps are not allowed to be used in OSM. Oh really? I read that they were sold. We had purchased them and were using them, also for osm. The consensus was that they are public domain. lets straighten this out. http://www.mail-archive.com/talk@openstreetmap.org/msg27951.html mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Best regards, Eugene Iline ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Licence of Soviet military topographic maps
I would like to say this, those maps are not very detailed, and really, have been used for very rough corrections, and adding in some streams or placing cities. mike On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 8:42 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: We purchased them from this site : http://mapstor.com/ Here the same data is available from a usaid sponsored project : http://www.bunkertrails.org/maps.php On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 8:28 AM, Eugene Iline evge...@ily.in wrote: Have you really officially purchased them from Russian government, its military divisions or perhaps from Roskartografiya? 2010/6/24 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 7:42 AM, Kirill Bestoujev bestou...@gmail.comwrote: No, they are not out of copyright. All the rights of USSR were transfered to Russian Federation. Neither USSR, nor Russian Federation ever transferred those maps to public domain or in any other way allowed free use of them. Most of that maps were stolen from exUSSR military bases in republics, which separated from USSR in 90-s. In Russia disclosing of such maps (not 100k, they were openly publiched, but 50k) is still a crime - treason. There was such a case a month ago. SO: old USSR military maps are not allowed to be used in OSM. Oh really? I read that they were sold. We had purchased them and were using them, also for osm. The consensus was that they are public domain. lets straighten this out. http://www.mail-archive.com/talk@openstreetmap.org/msg27951.html mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Best regards, Eugene Iline ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Licence of Soviet military topographic maps
I think you should take this to the legal list. As far as I know, the copyright laws of england count for osm, not those of russia. mike 2010/6/24 Alexandr Zeinalov shu...@sbin.ru We purchased them from this site : http://mapstor.com/ AFAIK this is not legal seller of maps, and poehali.org too. They both hosted outside Russia. So this maps can't be reliable identified as public domain maps. Here the same data is available from a usaid sponsored project : http://www.bunkertrails.org/maps.php -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Licence of Soviet military topographic maps
I am not saying that. I am saying that this is a topic for lawyers. from what I learned about the discussion on wikipedia datapoints, it is uk law that governs osm data. mike 2010/6/24 Kirill Bestoujev bestou...@gmail.com So you want to say that you do not care for those osm-users, which are in Russia and which may have problems using osm with copyright data in it? Did I get you right? K. 24 июня 2010 г. 13:56 пользователь jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com написал: I think you should take this to the legal list. As far as I know, the copyright laws of england count for osm, not those of russia. mike 2010/6/24 Alexandr Zeinalov shu...@sbin.ru We purchased them from this site : http://mapstor.com/ AFAIK this is not legal seller of maps, and poehali.org too. They both hosted outside Russia. So this maps can't be reliable identified as public domain maps. Here the same data is available from a usaid sponsored project : http://www.bunkertrails.org/maps.php -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Licence of Soviet military topographic maps
On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Kirill Bestoujev bestou...@gmail.comwrote: And by the way I am 100% sure that in UK stolen and later sold copyright materials are not treated us public domain. Can I see some documentation on this theft? Why dont you start with some dcma takedown notices for the people selling them, and see what happens? mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] Daten vom Katatsteramt: dxf oder shape?
Ja, siehe dxf2osm (twonickels branch of dime) http://www.mail-archive.com/d...@openstreetmap.org/msg10255.html mfg, mike 2010/6/24 Tirkon tirko...@yahoo.de Moin, da wir Orts- und Stadtteilgrenzen nicht selbst mappen können, habe ich beim Katasteramt nachgefragt, ob ich diese dort erhalten könnte. Da mir bekannt war, dass die Nutzungsbedingungen der niedersächsischen Geobehörden Web-Mapping-Dienste grundsätzlich von der Nutzung ausschließen [1}, habe ich verfälschte Daten angefragt. Ergebnis: Ich kann die Grenzen der sogenannten Gemarkungen, aus welchen sich die Ortsteile und somit auch die Orte konstruieren lassen, explizit für die Nutzung im OSM Projekt durch Glättung um 3 bis 5 Meter verfälscht für die ostfriesische Halbinsel [2] (Landkreise Aurich, Friesland, Leer und Wittmund sowie Städte Emden und Wilhelmshaven) für etwa 200 bis 250 Euro bekommen, die ich privat aufbringen werde. Angeboten wird wahlweise in Vektordarstellung das sogenannte dxf oder das Shapeformat. Da ich keine Ahnung von dieser Materie habe, wollte ich nachftragen, welches Format für uns günstiger wäre und ob ein Wissender diese Daten in eine osm-Datei oder ein in JOSM abmalbares Format umwandeln könnte? (1) http://www.lgn.niedersachsen.de/live/live.php?navigation_id=11063article_id=51535_psmand=35 [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.485lon=7.518zoom=10layers=B000FTF ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] neue OpenLinkMap - Wikipedia-Links
Hallo, Das ist ein Super system, hier habe ich was kleines gefunden : Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /osm/openlinkmap/wwwroot/api/details.php on line 243 Parku I Qytetit http://olm.openstreetmap.de/?zoom=14lat=42.66160383506lon=21.169874711044id=37450938objecttype=way mfg, mike 2010/6/24 Alexander Matheisen alexandermathei...@ish.de Wie ist die Systematik für die Wikipedia-Links? siehe http://olm.openstreetmap.de/info/index.html Es gibt auch Leute die schreiben wikipedia=de:Artikelname - das ist aber alleine deswegen problematisch, weil es dann nur eine Wikipedia-Verlinkung geben kann (und ich hab kA ob die OLM das ausgibt?). Außerdem passt wikipedia:de=Artikelname viel besser ins bisherige Taggingschema *find* Naja, so viel zur laufenden Diskussion an anderer Stelle dazu (bitte hier nicht darauf antworten, wenns ginge, lieber in dem Thread) Die OLM wertet sowieso nur ein Tag aus und leitet je nach Benutzersprache mit Hilfe der Wikipedia API auf die entsprechende Sprachversion weiter. Was genau verlinkt wird, wenn man wikipedia=Artikelname angibt weiss ich nicht, vermutlich die englische Wikipedia... Genau, dann gehe ich davon aus, dass der angegebene Artikelname zur englischen Wikipedia gehört. Alex ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Daten vom Katatsteramt: dxf oder shape?
ja, da musst du die Projektion im Programm hacken ich habe es fest-verdrahtet, außerdem gibt es eine dxf Konverter in ogr, gdal/ogr ich habe es noch nicht ausprobiert. mfg, mike On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:32 PM, Tirkon tirko...@yahoo.de wrote: jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Ja, siehe dxf2osm (twonickels branch of dime) http://www.mail-archive.com/d...@openstreetmap.org/msg10255.html mfg, mike Ich habe keine Ahnung von der Materie. Heißt das, Du könntest eine dxf Datei in eine osm-Datei umwandeln? I do not have any clue of this technical stuff. Does that mean, that you could convert a dxf-file to an osm-file? ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[OSM-talk] Pilot project to purchase 40 gps devices and train mappers in Kosovo
Hi, here is a project were the OSM community can help, We are getting 2000 Euros to purchase devices and have a School to train new mappers for Kosovo, http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/h4ck3rm1k3/diary/11036 All suggestion for hardware and training are welcome. This is something where the community could help make a difference. thanks, mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] Wiederbelebung OSM-Treffen Frankfurt am Main
hi, ich hoffen ihr kommt alle am 22 zum lug treffen, thema osm http://wiki.lug-frankfurt.de/VorTrag http://xhema.flossk.org:8084/openx/www/delivery/ck.php?zoneid=5 Chat Google Talk: JamesMikeDuPont Skype: h4ck3rm1k3 MSN: water_proof Contact Me [image: Linkedin] http://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesmikedupont[image: Facebook] http://www.facebook.com/james.m.dupont[image: Twitter]http://twitter.com/h4ck3rm1k3[image: Google] http://www.google.com/profiles/JamesMikeDuPont#buzz 2010/6/17 Gehling Marc m.gehl...@gmx.de Hallo, das letzte Treffen war vor über einen Jahr. In der Zeit hat sich im OSM-Universum viel getan. Zur Terminfindung dient http://www.doodle.com/g8nu7ap7ybbd7vut Alles weiter auf der Wikiseite http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Frankfurt_am_Main/OSM-Fr%C3%BChschoppen#N.C3.A4chstes_Treffen Marc ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping the spill
Sorry for the inconvenience. Kickstarter is down for routine maintenance. We'll be back soon! On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Alexander Menk menk-you.should.remove.this.for.permanent.cont...@mestrona.net wrote: Sam Vekemans wrote: is anyone mapping the spill, showing the area? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jywarren/grassroots-mapping-the-gulf-oil-spill-with-balloon?pos=3ref=recommended Alex ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Price for OSM survey - free advertising for two upcoming osm events
Payment? What about advertising for my upcoming conference? you are all invited. we are going to have a big party in the old naval academy in vlore Location of camping: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/772630912 Location of uni : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/634110108 We are looking to get Mikel Maron and Richard Waite as keynotes, we are getting sponsorship for travel expenses from sponsors. We are mapping right now the city of shkoder and making good progress, we hope to organize a trip there to do some mapping in person and meet the mayor who has invited us. additionally we are working on the kosovo conference on sept 25/26 and we should have a roadshow in between to visit 2-3 other cities. We are working on getting peter salus, the god of unix and glynn moody the author of rebel code, rob savoy of cygwin/gnash and alot more good speakers. I hope to see some of you at the beach party and osm talks are all welcome, we can accommodate anyone in a barcamp like style. thanks, mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org http://xhema.flossk.org:8084/openx/www/delivery/ck.php?zoneid=5 Chat Google Talk: JamesMikeDuPont Skype: h4ck3rm1k3 MSN: water_proof Contact Me [image: Linkedin] http://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesmikedupont[image: Facebook] http://www.facebook.com/james.m.dupont[image: Twitter]http://twitter.com/h4ck3rm1k3[image: Google] http://www.google.com/profiles/JamesMikeDuPont#buzz On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Roland Ramthun osm...@roland-ramthun.dewrote: Dear talk@, at some point in the future there may be a survey on OSM topics, which is free to take for any OSM member. You don't need to have any special knowledge or skills to answer the questions, just to get down to work and fill it out. To motivate you, there shall be non-cash prizes with a value of approx. 50 Euro. Do you know of any non-cash prize, ideally related to OSM, which would motivate you? Or would you rather take the cash, if possible? Please tell me on or off list if you have any thoughts on this topic. Kind regards, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] 1-Euro-Jobber als Mapper einsetzen
Ja, es gibt auch die Eintragung der Firmen in einer Firmenregister. Ich habe mir das allen angeschaut, und auch darueber geschrieben : http://osmopenlayers.blogspot.com/2010/04/suggestions-for-offenbach-openstreetmap.html Mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org http://xhema.flossk.org:8084/openx/www/delivery/ck.php?zoneid=5 Chat Google Talk: JamesMikeDuPont Skype: h4ck3rm1k3 MSN: water_proof Contact Me [image: Linkedin] http://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesmikedupont[image: Facebook] http://www.facebook.com/james.m.dupont[image: Twitter]http://twitter.com/h4ck3rm1k3[image: Google] http://www.google.com/profiles/JamesMikeDuPont#buzz 2010/6/15 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com Am 15. Juni 2010 07:45 schrieb jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com: Also es gibt vieles zb Restaurants, Kioske, was gar nicht vom der Stadt aufgezeichnet wird. Wo? In allen Ländern, wo ich das weiss, gibt es natürlich Behörden, die jedes Restaurant kennen (in D. z.B. der Wirtschaftskontrolldienst, die Finanzbehörden, ...), ähnliches gilt für Kioske. Das eine Hand nicht weiss, was die andere tut steht auf einem anderen Blatt. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] 1-Euro-Jobber als Mapper einsetzen
also, die katasteramt/vermessungsamt darf nicht alles freigeben (manche Daten sind über stadt- eigenen Firmen, und die wollen ihr wettbewerbsvorteil haben), und ausserdem besitzen sie nicht alle rechte oder auch alle Daten. also das Argument ist viel zu einfach. Warum soll ich denken, wenn der Stadt das fuer mich macht? Also es gibt vieles zb Restaurants, Kioske, was gar nicht vom der Stadt aufgezeichnet wird. mike 2010/6/14 Angie openstreet...@angiesoft.de: davon mal ab, bezahlt der steuerzahler nicht schon leute bei Katasteramt um zu mappen? warum sollen wird dann nochmal dafür zahlen damit ein euro jobber das gleiche machen? kann man doch gleich das original Katasteramt material freigeben. +++ Stimmt, und dazu gibt es nichts mehr anzumerken! MfG Angie -- --BEGIN H*KEY BLOCK- v4sw5CPUhw5pr5FPck2ma8u7Lw3XGm1l7ELi3JNTe7t4TNDVb5Oen5g3/2ZMa5XsSr1p md575107a5d52c10f952288d17f2df7af632 ---END H*KEY BLOCK-- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk] Small village high detail low angle orthorectification
see here http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/h4ck3rm1k3/diary/10219 On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Ciprian Talaba cipriantal...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe Map Warper http://warper.geothings.net/ can help you. --Ciprian On Jun 13, 2010 4:50 PM, Tristan Scott trs...@gmail.com wrote: I happen to know a chap who has quite a lot of aerial imagery of Norfolk villages. Because he publishes the images, I cannot release the images to the public or to other mappers, but I can use them myself to generate mapping data. Some of the uses I have in mind is to map landuse in villages and missing roads, for villages where most of the roads have already been gps-mapped, giving lots of known points to perform the rectification from. Now, the images are taken at quite a low angle, so I'll need to recify them using software, ideally some sort of orthorecification thing in JOSM, if such is availiable. The tranform will be a basic trapezoid shape, but with a bottom probably half as long as the top (so the image taken at 45 degrees) possibly with slightly bowed sides for any barrel distorion in the lens. Obviously this will only work from items on the flat plane, but handily that pretty much describes norfolk. Does anyone have experience of this, who could point me in the direction of the appropriate JOSM plugin, or external software? I have Linux (Gentoo) and Windows XP on systems used for mapping. This must be a fairly common issue for mappers, right? Tristan Scott BSc(Hons) Yare Valley Technical Services 07837 205829 01603 858441 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] 1-Euro-Jobber als Mapper einsetzen
2010/6/13 Markus liste12a4...@gmx.de: 2. 1-Euro-Jobs vernichten Arbeisplätze und reduzieren das Lohnniveau bundesweit (genauso wie Zeitarbeit). Das widerspricht dem Gedanken von Freiheit und Geriechtigkeit, und ist m.E. unsozial und gesellschaftspolitisch destruktiv. meine Vorstellung von Freiheit umfasst auch die freie Ausübung der Arbeit. ich moechte weniger gesellschaftspolitischen Hindernisse als jetzt in .de vorhanden sind. mike ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] 1-Euro-Jobber als Mapper einsetzen
Da klingt doch toll. Wieso arbeiten wir nicht mit den behinderten werkstatt auch, die koennten doch vielleicht tracen. mike 2010/6/13 Thomas thomas.ebe...@t-online.de: Ich denke, das hier ist nicht die richtige Plattform, um den Sinn oder Unsinn von 1 €-Jobs politisch zu diskutieren. Trotzdem zu Klärung einige Fakten: Die ARGE hat mir erzählt, dass diese 1€-Jobs an Menschen vergeben werden, die aufgrund ihrer Lebenseinstellung kaum noch in der Lage sind, regelmäßig zu arbeiten. Sie sollen in der Maßnahme behutsam wieder daran gewöhnt werden, beispielsweise jeden Morgen um 8.00 Uhr an einem Arbeitsplatz zu erscheinen. Sie sollen angeleitet werden, in ihrem Job schrittweise wieder Verantwortung zu übernehmen. Es soll ihnen ermöglicht werden, wieder Struktur in ihr Leben zu bringen – so werden z. B. gemeinsame Mahlzeiten von den 1€-Jobbern selbst zubereitet. Und sie sollen lernen, dass sie mit Arbeit etwas Sinnvolles und der Allgemeinheit Nützliches schaffen können. Thomas ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] presentation on introduction to osm technicals
Hi, I have a presentation on the same topic due for the 20th, maybe we could work together. what about a shared google doc for a presentation? http://docs.google.com/present/edit?id=0AYQovvVR7xyxZGc2NnAzc3dfMTk3Z3doMmJkYzkhl=en here i started something very simple. mike On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 8:14 AM, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi I'm giving a workshop on Friday at the Africa Agricultural GIS Week in Nairobi. The first half of the day will be a short mapping party. The second half of the day will survey topics in how to use OSM data ... in OpenLayers, Shapefiles, using osmosis, API, etc. The audience will be GIS professionals. Does anyone have any presentation files or materials that covers this kind of thing? Thanks Mikel == Mikel Maron == +254(0)724899738 @mikel s:mikelmaron http://mapkibera.org/ http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Haiti ___ dev mailing list d...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID
Hi, here is a humble suggestion, instead of giving *everything* unique id, we might focus on making some form of permalink that is usable upon request. Like for wikipedia articles etc, that we can link to and be relatively sure that the link will still be there. Some form of watch tool that would inform the user that the permalink he created is broken. It would be easier to maintain a list of don't break me links than to rework the whole system. mike On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 8:19 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 3 June 2010 16:07, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: Keep the node (not because of the ID, but because of the POI meaning) and add the area as a non-named area with only tags to indicate usage. Optionally add them all in a relation. That way you keep the POI for POI collectors, you can use the POI to position the name on the map and still have the site visible as an area on the map. Other solution: have POI collectors rewrite their code to consider areas too (and use the average location of all points in the area as the POI location). I must say I have not always mapped according to the first rule myself. But IMHO this is a point that needs discussing, for the POI collector's sake. Even if you did map for the POI collectors they still need to take into account POIs added as areas by others, so it seems like poor coding not to deal with POIs as areas in any case. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] On-the-fly Rendering Library? (Was: Re: Whole world files)
some quick thoughts : you could use a mapserver to server wms data created from osm files, you can also use openlayers to render vector data on the fly. mike On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: It seems that for situations like this it would be nice to have a simple on-the-fly rendering system that consumed the OSM data and then rendered your viewbox on the fly rather than creating raster tiles. If the iPhone can do a passable realtime rendering job for Skobbler, then a heftier machine should be able to do it at a higher resolution. I realize that editors do this already, but how hard would it be to pull the editor cruft from around the rendering engine? On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Expanding the bounding box to include all of Maine, (and all that empty ocean, plus some Quebec and New Brunswick) would double or triple the totals. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-de] OSM-Wiki: Ist das Werbung ?!?!?
Hi, das ist einen eintrag von unsere project http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AlbanianFloodingCrisisCamp albanian project, bitte nicht loeschen, es ist kein werbung, sonder wir sammeln erstmals alle daten ueber shkoder, danke, mike 2010/5/26 Jan Tappenbeck o...@tappenbeck.net: Hi ! habe gerade bei den neuen Seiten http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Hotel_Colosseoredirect=no gefunden - wenn man die Erstellungszeile liest und keinen Seiteninhalt findet macht es den Eindruck das da einer gut Werbung machen möchte ! Wie denkt Ihr darüber - löschen ?!?! Gruß jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM-Wiki: Ist das Werbung ?!?!?
Die sind jetzt hier, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AlbanianFloodingCrisisCamp/WhereToStay#Hotel_Colosseo danke, mike 2010/5/26 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com: Hi, das ist einen eintrag von unsere project http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AlbanianFloodingCrisisCamp albanian project, bitte nicht loeschen, es ist kein werbung, sonder wir sammeln erstmals alle daten ueber shkoder, danke, mike 2010/5/26 Jan Tappenbeck o...@tappenbeck.net: Hi ! habe gerade bei den neuen Seiten http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Hotel_Colosseoredirect=no gefunden - wenn man die Erstellungszeile liest und keinen Seiteninhalt findet macht es den Eindruck das da einer gut Werbung machen möchte ! Wie denkt Ihr darüber - löschen ?!?! Gruß jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk] Flash and open source
firefox jetpack On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Gervase Markham gerv-gm...@gerv.netwrote: On 14/05/10 23:51, Richard Fairhurst wrote: It's a frickin' browser plugin, if the browser is letting it access your l337 credit card details then the browser probably ought to address its plugin architecture. Sadly, the definition of how browser plugins work means that they are fully-privileged native code. There's not much you can do about that. I guess it would be technically possible to define a new plugin standard that was sandboxed in some way, but it would be an enormous effort, and no-one would rewrite their plugins to use it. Gerv ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] lazyweb: what linux-based wifi gps phone would you recommend
Well the question came from a new OSMer from Shkoder Albania, who is helping with the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AlbanianFloodingCrisisCamp. The people in albania dont have much money, it is a very poor country, but they love to spend money on mobile phones. there are a great deal of good used mobile phones for sale there. So, he is new to osm but not new to linux, and if we can find the right phone for him, maybe more people will be also motivated to help with osm, when they see somone sitting in the cafe with a nice phone, collecting pois, they will want to do the same, because it looks cool. thanks mike On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 12:36 AM, Joseph Reeves iknowjos...@gmail.comwrote: There is a lot of android phones to pick from, not sure how many allow root access or you can get root access with them. True, but the question wasn't really that specific. I know, I'm being pedantic, but the Desire is the nicest phone I've ever owned (and I make a point of owning nice phones) and it just so happens to run Linux (well, they forked the kernel, but it's close enough). Isn't the FreeRunner limited to GPRS or EDGE only? Might be an issue if you want 3G... True again. You can plug in a USB 3G modem thanks to the awesome host mode on the phone, but it might not be too ergonomic, and would eat the battery even quicker than normal, but it's possible. Again, without knowing what this phone is intended to be used for, we can't really say too much... Cheers, Joseph On 17 May 2010 17:56, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 17 May 2010 22:47, Joseph Reeves iknowjos...@gmail.com wrote: HTC Desire: if you want an iPhone without the ponce factor There is a lot of android phones to pick from, not sure how many allow root access or you can get root access with them. Openmoko FreeRunner: if you want to run Debian on this Linux-based wifi gps phone. Isn't the FreeRunner limited to GPRS or EDGE only? Might be an issue if you want 3G... Nokia also makes at least one linux based handset. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] lazyweb: what linux-based wifi gps phone would you recommend
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 12:48 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 19 May 2010 08:43, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: So, he is new to osm but not new to linux, and if we can find the right phone for him, maybe more people will be also motivated to help with osm, when they see somone sitting in the cafe with a nice phone, collecting pois, they will want to do the same, because it looks cool. The OS isn't directly accessible to most apps on most phones, they generally all have middleware for the apps, like java, if you are all for show you shouldn't worry as much about the OS as about the GUI and GUI apps to do POI mapping, and the accuracy of the GPS. Anyway, the question was about linux phones. our group in albania and kosovo is not just promoting and working on OSM and freedom of the maps, but also of software and knowledge, we promoting linux. If given a choice, we will choose to promote freedom. thanks, mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] lazyweb: what linux-based wifi gps phone would you recommend
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 1:32 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 19 May 2010 09:29, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Anyway, the question was about linux phones. Maybe so, but you didn't give enough context as to why. our group in albania and kosovo is not just promoting and working on OSM and freedom of the maps, but also of software and knowledge, we promoting linux. If given a choice, we will choose to promote freedom. In which case your only options, to the best of my knowledge, are the nokia n900 and the freerunner... Android phones are usually too locked down to be considered free by most FLOSS groups... Well, if we can root them, and install other software it should not be a problem. thanks, mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] lazyweb: what linux-based wifi gps phone would you recommend
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 1:48 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 19 May 2010 09:37, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: In which case your only options, to the best of my knowledge, are the nokia n900 and the freerunner... Android phones are usually too locked down to be considered free by most FLOSS groups... Well, if we can root them, and install other software it should not be a problem. You can also jail break iphones but I wouldn't consider that a good open platform either... Agreed. I dont know much about smartphones myself, which is why I asked. I myself have an old nokia with no schnickschnak. But we did get an extenal gps with a nokia smartphone for poi collecting in kosovo, it worked well. thanks everyone for the responses, good stuff! mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] lazyweb: what linux-based wifi gps phone would you recommend
Hi all, here is a question from one of my friends, *what linux-based wifi gps phone would you recommend?* any suggestions? thanks, mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] lazyweb: what linux-based wifi gps phone would you recommend
more responses: thanks for your input BUZZ: Guttorm Flatabø - New HTC mobiles are getting very good reviews. I have a Sumsung, but I'm stuck with Android 1.5 IRC xjjk Phurl: there are only 2 real contenders... Maemo-based or Android-based and they're both pretty excellent. the former is more open, the latter has a better app ecosystem facebook Gent Thaçi :Google Nexus One! :) facebook Jeff Gromest : Here in the states we have a few but the Motorola Milestone (Android based) seems to be the big one. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki contributions (was: new logo)
On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: for API changes. Give them stars and badges and stuff. I'm sure Wikipedia has something we can learn from in this respect? Great Idea, here is my suggestion http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:H4ck3rm1k3/OSMBarnStarIdea I think you deserve one.! let me look up the cheesy text : [image: OSMBarnStarProposal001.png] For many contributions to OSM and tireless help and contributions, I present you with this Opensteetmap Barnstar. Considering how much work and code an data you contribute, you deserve it! James Michael DuPont 23:06, 16 May 2010 (UTC) heheheh, mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flash and open source
Here is a message from the gnash team that I think is appropriate to forward to this thread. thanks, mike -- Forwarded message -- From: John Gilmore g...@toad.com Date: Sun, May 16, 2010 at 2:52 AM Subject: [Gnash-dev] Gnash appears on Adobe's web site! To: gnash-...@gnu.org Adobe has a facetious campaign about how open they are, now that Apple has used its own iron fist to lock out Adobe products from the iPhone/iPad universe. Anybody who really knows anything about Adobe history knows it's a crock of shit -- Adobe only opens when the world forces them to -- but it's there to fool the rubes. Anyway, as part of this campaign, they have publicly admitted that Gnash exists, here: http://www.adobe.com/choice/flash.html They think the existence of Gnash helps to claim that Flash is open, despite all the years of never publishing specs, and using EULA anti-reverse-engineering threats. Then after the open community reverse engineered it, came the years of Adobe publishing bogus specs that didn't actually work, and which came with a EULA of their own that said you could use the specs for any purpose except to build a competing implementation (which they now claim Anyone can use without requiring permission from Adobe!). Not to mention all the patent and codec wars. Anyway, they end by namechecking haXe; open source runtimes such as Gnash; and open source video servers such as Red5. It's really funny that when the big bully Apple comes after them, they go running to the free software community for protection. Maybe Dmitry Sklyarov can help 'em. I hear his company has some lawyers who know how to win cases against big bully companies. John ___ Gnash-dev mailing list gnash-...@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnash-dev ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flash and open source
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 9:51 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.comwrote: On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 17:08, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Occasionally the subject of Flash and free software comes up here in relation to Potlatch. I would encourage people to sign the petition at http://openplayer.net/ encouraging Adobe to make the Flash Player open source. Making their player open source would be nice. But what's mainly stopping players like Gnash is that their protocols are closed, and that anyone working on opening them up is subject to Adobe's legal team [1]. Adobe is obviously aware of these issues, but chooses to keep their platform closed. An online petition is unlikely to change their mind. 1. http://www.chillingeffects.org/anticircumvention/notice.cgi?NoticeID=25159 I agree totally, we dont need the dirty source code, just some specs or even the permission to reverse engineer. mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mass mailing osm mappers
yes, i want this function as well! On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 11:13 PM, Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.comwrote: i'm interested in the following from a technical and social perspective: as part of the LINZ import, some members of osm in NZ are about to add a lot of data to NZ. we've already had a number of mappers contact us concerned we are about to write over their data (which incidentally, won't happen) we would like to make as many NZ mappers aware of the import as possible, firstly to reduce these concerns, and to stop the potential outfux of NZ mappers who see themselves being replaced by bots and scripts. also, it would of course be beneficial to include more people in what we are doing are there any issues with mass contacting either (a) everyone who has set their location as in NZ, or (b) everyone who has made an edit within NZ? is there an AUP for osm which forbids this? and if not, is it possible to do this programmatically either through the wiki mail or the osm mailer? cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch and Gnash
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Stefan Monnier monn...@iro.umontreal.ca wrote: - I had trouble creating a non-road (a building). That worked, made a square,added building=yes http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/58708097/history How do you add building=yes? I.e. how do you add a tag? I ended up selecting a bogus road type, which added 3 tags and then edited the tags. with the plus key, to add tags. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-de] OSM Vortrag in Frankfurt Dienstag, 22.06.2010
Hallo, ich habe einen kleinen Vortrag angemeldet : http://wiki.lugfrankfurt.de/VorTrag Dienstag, 22.06.2010 Erfahrung mit Openstreetmap: Programmieren und Verwendung, James Mike DuPont will jemand mithelfen? Ich habe selbst keinen GPS, mache mehr auf software basis. ausserdem habe ich einen treffen mit dem Vermessungsamt Offenbach gehabt http://osmopenlayers.blogspot.com/2010/04/suggestions-for-offenbach-openstreetmap.html mfg, Mike ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch and Gnash
On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Stefan Monnier monn...@iro.umontreal.ca wrote: I have disabled adobe flash, and done some testing with gnash for the past days. it turns out the potlach is usable. there are some issues that I have reported here, more to test. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_FLOSS/PotlatchGnash Indeed, I just tried it and was able to use it for the first time. Other than the mouse-lag (which is unbearable), I noticed two more problems: As I said, the mouse lag is a function of the data loaded, which should mean it can be optimized. Thanks for testing. you want to add them to wiki please? we will use the wiki for staging bugreports into either gnash or potlatch as we figure it out. Otherwise, I can do that. - typing accents with the compose key doesn't work (Multi_key ' e ends up inserting 'e rather than é). I dont know how to do that, but believe you. - I had trouble creating a non-road (a building). That worked, made a square,added building=yes http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/58708097/history I had trouble deleting the building, need to delete the points, could now delete the entire selected no via the del key. mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch and Gnash
On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote: On 9 May 2010, at 15:40, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: I had trouble deleting the building, need to delete the points, could now delete the entire selected no via the del key. Try shift+backspace to delete ways. Shaun perfect, thanks, maybe someone who knows how to use potlatch should be testing this? I have done 99% of my edits with josm. I know only how to do simple things with potlach, but it does not make much sense to have a dead key delete that does not work. Ok will remove the item from the list. mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Russians at it again
On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Patrick Petschge o...@petschge.de wrote: It is a good thing they are figuring out how to enjoy OpenStreetMap without putting themselves at risk *and* in the mean time try to prevent a total blockade of OpenStreetMap in Russia. It is definitly good that they try to figure out how to map and use OSM in Russia without putting themselves at risk. BUT that shouldn't mean that they get to descide unilaterally in a language most people in OSM don't understand what can be mapped in Russia. Is there any clear policy for the WIki about such things? Maybe the wiki page could be just changed to a more softer tone, such as that of a suggestion. mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Russians at it again
On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Kirill Bestoujev bestou...@gmail.comwrote: There are no rules in OSM. I would disagree and say there are some rules, in fact a buch of them, at the very least there is Copyright law and the creative commons copyleft which is the basis for our collaboration. you do not have any f*cking right to call it substandard. I would agree with you on that one! mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] WikiProject_FLOSS (was: OSM composer not open source?)
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 12:36 AM, Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/5/2 Niklas Cholmkvist towards...@gmail.com: I added an Introduction at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_FLOSS . I didn't put very The most important reason (for me at least) to write OSM related FLOSS, is increase the rate at which tags are standardized. For example, if contributors find that their favorite router generates bad routes, they look for bugs in the underlying data. If it generates good routes, they'll move on. If that router happens to be proprietary it will mean that some of the data is, in effect locked up in a proprietary standard. If the source is published, then the OSM community can at least look at the what variables influences the router and aim for compatibility. And if you think that contributors only look at the wiki, look at this discussion: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Gosmore#Illegal_Routing added the idea of a routing api that would talk to the different router and to make them interoperable, is that ok? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_FLOSS#Project_open_routing_api ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM composer not open source?
Saying that it is not translated due to lack of interest, and not even having the sources to translate is pretty weak. People could work on the translation, they could work on making it better. I don't see how the language strings would be infringing on the guys previous Employers. Next point, why openstreetmap.de is hosting it? It seems to be a confused relationship, why should people give money to osm to host non free software? I am confused now, would like to know the guidelines. What about the freedom to copy the websites, now the topo.openstreetmap.de cannot be mirrored freely, can it? Non free software should pay for their own hosting. Or am I missing something here? What are the guidelines for hosting on openstreetmap servers? there is no demand for only open source software or services. The openstreetmap.org site is free and using open data and open source software. There seems to be a great demand for it, wikipedia is another example. I dont understand your argument. Please explain. Just recently OSM has gotten endorsement from many free software groups, do they know that they are endorsing non free software? mike On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 7:35 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 May 2010 15:22, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: It sends a bad message to have non free software being promoted our wiki. Companies offering commercial services are also on the wiki, OSM's primary goal is freely available data, there is no demand for only open source software or services. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM composer not open source?
On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 9:56 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 May 2010 17:42, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: If all that hurts your head, it hurts my head just as much seeing closed-source software promoted by a site whos sole purpose is the freedom of information. No one is actively promoting anything, Mike is using emotive language to push his morals, however this has little to do with the fact of the matter, describing software on the wiki that people can use is in the interest of OSM users in general, people want to know how to use the data as much as create it. Please don't get to personal here, it is not about my morals. It is about consistency and clarity. I just find it confusing. Really there is no clarity in this example, as to the rights of the user. What is the exact license of the software? What is the agreement that you enter into by downloading? I would say that it is not clear. mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM composer not open source?
On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: In another post you wrote that topo.openstreetmap.org cannot be freely mirrored. That is true insofar as that we are likely to ban your IP if you try to to create such a mirror due to the load on the server, much as you would be banned if you tried to mirror tile.openstreetmap.org. Of course, that is not the issue, my point was simple, it is just that by hosting non free software you are effectively limiting the users to make a copy of the site or use its contents. if it is practical or not is another issue. By freely mirrored, i mean you do not have the freedom to mirror it and use it under a creative commons or any other public use license. That is why the wikipedia commons does not want fair use material posted. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Fair_use I am not advocating using up precious bandwidth or anything like that, and I don't want to start a big emotional debate. My only point is that, like sf.net we should not be hosting non free software on the osm site (s). thanks, mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM composer not open source?
I agree with you on many points, 1. Yes, of course the data should be free to be used however people want. (in accordance with the restrictions on derived works). There can be no coupling of data and software. that would be evil. There should be no GPLED wire formats or the like. 2. The Software should be free, and I have no problems with the mix of licenses that I see in OSM. It is fine that some people want to use different licenses, and everyone has their own reasons. Ideally you should be able to use the software for propriety data and creative commons data. But there is also another aspect, and that is the websites and the policies of usage of them. My idea is pretty simple, if you want to have propriety software, please host it somewhere else. If you cannot host it on any of the free software hosting sites because you want to have a restrictive license, then please host it on a normal site, but you will have to pay for bandwidth or have some type of advertising etc. There are many webpages for hosting your propriety data and files. It is however confusing to see propriety software being hosted on some site with a name like *.openstreetmap.* . thanks, mike On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 3:46 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Me too! Maybe someday we will have to make a librestreetmap fork of project with stricter licenses policies for the software and better policies for the wiki. Mike, I'm a long time Free Software advocate/writing and a member of the FSF (in that I pay dues). And as far as writing software is concerned, I agree wholeheartedly with you that software should be free, and given the choice between Free and non-free software, I encourage people to use the Free Software, and discourage people from writing non-free software. That said, as far as I know, no Free software project has ever put in its license that there's a requirement for data accessed via an API or via a data format be made available under any specific license requirements. In other words, Apache doesn't say that you must use Firefox, and OpenOffice.org doesn't say you must use OpenOffice, or Abiword, etc. I think that even the most ardent Free Software person would argue that these terms would be a net negative against the project. Free Software is about giving the users freedoms[1], but it's always been made clear that calls made at arms length and data exchange formats are not subject to the terms of the license. As for the sentiment in general, OpenStreetMap has two general definitions. The first is the most strict- it's that OpenStreetMap is the database, and just the database. The second is that OpenStreetMap is the database, the web site, the tools (Postgis, Mapnik, etc.). It's easy to see where the lines can be muddled. It's my understanding that the OSMF only produces Free Software, it also encourages the use of OSM to a larger audience, and that may mean non-Free software. That's okay. That's part of our ecosystem of partners. So long as the various organizations and individuals comply with the license, this is okay. Arguing for yet stricter license requirements seems silly when there are parts of our existing population which find the license too restrictive[2]. And I can tell you, as a Free Software supporter, that if there were a project which dictated terms of use on remote APIs or data exchange formats, I'd be pretty turned off myself. - Serge [1] Placing minimal restrictions when necessary to ensure those freedoms, such as in the GPL. [2] They are in favor of something more akin to Public Domain or CC0. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM composer not open source?
On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: We have a policy on the FOSSGIS servers (the ones behind openstreetmap.de) that says we're not hosting non-free software. If you can point me to software being hosted on openstreetmap.de which is non-free then it will be removed. I was talking about this software : http://topo.openstreetmap.de/map_composer_082.zip thanks, mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM composer not open source?
Yes, my point was a bit to much, of course I wont decompile and publish the source. but the essence of my question is, without a license, what is the terms of usage of such a software? It is unclear. That is what is worrying me. mike On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 4:50 PM, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 May 2010 07:30, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Also, it is being hosted on openstreetmap.de, I am going to start to decompile it and recreate the java code from the class files. I wonder if they will sue me. I don't see any license agreement that says I cannot do it. While I don't think it's a good thing, and am not a lawyer, afaik decompilation is on of the rights that copyright takes away by default (if no license is given), in some countries -- except if it's done for interoperability in which case both us and eu allow it explicitly. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM composer not open source?
Hi there, just a question, freeware for non commercial usage / non open source being promoted on the osm wiki? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:OSM_Composer Is this what we want ? is there any policy on that? I know we have strict policies on map data, but what about wikiusage and usage of the resources of the osm. It sends a bad message to have non free software being promoted our wiki. Someone asked me to help translate this tool, and I was shocked to find no source code. Does OSM have any guidelines about software that is hosted on the wiki? Can people just make software under any license and then put it on the wiki for free advertising ? Can I advertise anything I want on the wiki? I know that flossk our group in Kosovo has guidelines on non free software and we dont allow people to use our conference or donated resources to promote non-free software, because our mission is to promote software freedom and data freedom, not just data freedom. Autotranslate from the wikipage : Why is not Open Source Composer? Composer shares code and base libraries with a few other programs I've written over time and used by various organizations. First, these interfaces must always remain backward compatible, on the other hand, these older users' rights and would not part with an opening to the code agree. Additionally, for me, especially if a program usable for the (hobby) is the user. And it takes a lot more with proper documentation, as the source code with which you can usually start anyway not in the least. Well, lets see the source code that he parts he can publish and we can rewrite the parts that are not available. I think it would make more sense to have the app being open and have 1-2 libs that are not and should be replaced as closed libs. In any case, we could work on the translation. Also, proper documentation is the source, no? I mean want more proper documentation can you get except source code that works? you can debug it. thanks, mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM composer not open source?
Also, it is being hosted on openstreetmap.de, I am going to start to decompile it and recreate the java code from the class files. I wonder if they will sue me. I don't see any license agreement that says I cannot do it. mike On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 7:22 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi there, just a question, freeware for non commercial usage / non open source being promoted on the osm wiki? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:OSM_Composer Is this what we want ? is there any policy on that? I know we have strict policies on map data, but what about wikiusage and usage of the resources of the osm. It sends a bad message to have non free software being promoted our wiki. Someone asked me to help translate this tool, and I was shocked to find no source code. Does OSM have any guidelines about software that is hosted on the wiki? Can people just make software under any license and then put it on the wiki for free advertising ? Can I advertise anything I want on the wiki? I know that flossk our group in Kosovo has guidelines on non free software and we dont allow people to use our conference or donated resources to promote non-free software, because our mission is to promote software freedom and data freedom, not just data freedom. Autotranslate from the wikipage : Why is not Open Source Composer? Composer shares code and base libraries with a few other programs I've written over time and used by various organizations. First, these interfaces must always remain backward compatible, on the other hand, these older users' rights and would not part with an opening to the code agree. Additionally, for me, especially if a program usable for the (hobby) is the user. And it takes a lot more with proper documentation, as the source code with which you can usually start anyway not in the least. Well, lets see the source code that he parts he can publish and we can rewrite the parts that are not available. I think it would make more sense to have the app being open and have 1-2 libs that are not and should be replaced as closed libs. In any case, we could work on the translation. Also, proper documentation is the source, no? I mean want more proper documentation can you get except source code that works? you can debug it. thanks, mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-ca] Is it time to set up a openstreetmap.ca organization / registered charity?
On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:19 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: It could look after things such as the Openstreetmap.ca domain, forward a few dollars into europe keep the servers going, possibly raise a few dollars to purchase a couple of GPS devices for street mapping parties, even send a few to Africa etc to help Openstreetmap over there. The Charitable status would mean tax deductions on the donations. Well you can always use a few dollars for GPS devices and for Servers. I have been helping sam out with server stuff, and that was also a donation. The guys in london are not really responsive to server requests. Really, I think having more servers would be great. If you dont need the cpu, I can use it! mike ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Viral can be nice
On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Albertas Agejevas a...@pov.lt wrote: On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 09:50:50AM +0200, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: 2010/4/22 Dirk-Lüder Kreie osm-l...@deelkar.net Am 22.04.2010 02:51, schrieb andrzej zaborowski: No other data gatherer in the world has the manpower OSM has. Even if our License was to be CC0 or PD, we still would have the best map data around, simply because no one could really keep up with us. (Assuming, of course, that the majority of future OSM Mappers would find that license acceptable). I would like to say that the sharealike license is what builds trust for me. As a small contributor at least I know that I will be able to use the derived works. I really think that the sharealike clause is what builds the community, it is the glue that holds it together. It also deters unexpected well-meaning users. Consider FlightGear, the open-source flight simulator. Wouldn't it be great if they used OSM instead of, or along with, VMAP0 for their scenery display? Currently the technology is there, but they are reluctant to do that because of the licence incompatibility, or more precisely doubts about licence compatibility: http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear-de...@lists.sourceforge.net/msg21490.html I dont see the problem, it sounds like they are just not very interested. It would not be a problem to convert maps for usage. You could distribute them separately. For a large player it would be possible to take the data, invest a lot of resources in making a private branch, and there would be no sharing back. Stuff like that would really destroy the community. I don't see this as a realistic scenario. The scenario is simple, someone takes the map of a city, and just branches from that and does not share back. It could be done by anyone with enough resources. Google Maps have better coverage than OSM in many areas. Not it the areas we cover, in kosovo and albanian we building the best maps. We are getting data from all types of sources, from gis companies etc. Does it stop you from using OSM and contributing to it? I dont understand. I am talking about people using my work, about my time spent on the project. Would it change your attitude if Google used OSM to make their data set better? If they make those derived works available it is find whoever uses the data. Only with a sharealike are the small contributing parties the benefactors. PD CC0 is great for huge organizations to publish data for all to use, but CCSA is great for building communities. Personally, I would feel much better about contributing to an open, unencumbered body of public knowledge, rather than a paranoid they are out to get us share-alike community. paranoid? whatever. I can only point out that the GCC compiler would not be what it is today without the sharealike clause, for that reason it has so many backends and frontends. Only after alot of fighting with apple/next in the old days did objective c get added into the gcc. http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/ObjC2_FAQ#Which_Compiler_Should_I_Use.3F The history of Objective-C in GCC is somewhat complicated. Originally, NeXT was forced to release the original Objective-C front end in order to comply with the GPL. Without such a license there would be no Objective C, there are many other examples of contributions that are a result of sharealike. I can say that I have personally invested months of time into openstreetmap and would not have done so, or have gotten the data contributions without the sharealike license. What else would allow all these different companies to donate map data, if they knew that someone could just run away with the ball? 1. Software is a different field, an analogy is just that. Analogies often have their flaws. 2. Do the projects that use non-viral BSD, MIT, MPL-like licences any worse off than GPL projects? Apache? Mozilla? X.org? Python uses a non-viral licence. It has several forks and reimplementations (IronPython, Jython, Stackless, unladen-swallow), which were funded by different companies at different times. There is a commercial package by ActiveState, but it's not making the whole community weaker, on the contrary. here are all types of projects and all types of licenses, each has their merits. But for the gcc, it is very clear that companies do not donate a compiler machine backend for free. For OSM, I chose to invest my time also because I see that the license protects my investment. It is pretty simple. Viral licences have their uses (e.g. forcing wireless router manufacturers to release the firmware contents, forcing NeXT to release ObjJ, forcing Bruno Haible to contribute CLISP to the GNU project), but my feeling in the case of OSM they just cause uncertainty and doubt about any serious use of the data, even by open-source projects. I understand that windows users are used to clicking on I agree
[OSM-talk] my wiki login is expiring once a day
Hi, I dont know if it just me, but my login to the wiki.openstreetmap.orgexpires every day 4 times. does anyone have this problem? anyway, thanks for osm, it is the best project! mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] OpenStreetMap U.S. Inc
Thats great news! We should contact the software in the public interest foundation for funding, they might give some money. mike On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Jim McAndrew j...@loc8.us wrote: Excellent news Kate! I know this has taken a lot of work from you and a few others. It's great to see it all coming together! On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: Hey All, Just wanted to let you know OpenStreetMap U.S. Inc exists now. This is so we can eventually become a chapter of OpenStreetMap. We'll be moving forward with getting an EIN (tax number) from the IRS, working out the Chapter agreement, etc shortly. Thanks for all your (and the temp board's) hard work on this, Kate! Woohoo! ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] xybot edit area size
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Valent Turkovic valent.turko...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 07:45:58 +, Valent Turkovic wrote: It would be ideal if it would use small areas of only few square km around each edit, idea beeing so that xybot edits don't show in history tab when looking at some area that wasn't edited. Ideally I would like to see bot edits in area that I'm looking at but not ones 5000km away ;( What about the edit history only showing edits to elementsinside the view box, not just edits that contain view box, Sounds like a feature request for trac. http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/2867 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OSM content on locked platforms
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 12:36 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I would be interested in your thoughts on the legal situation here. Is distributing an OSM-derived data set on such a closed platform still CC-BY-SA conformant? Lets think about this in a different way, lets assume that i want to embed glibc in my microwave oven, All I have to do is make the source available, but not in the oven. According to the gpl you are required to have a written offer somewhere in the fine print that the sources are available. Maybe CCSA would turn out that way, there is no rule that it has to be easy. I can imagine that they would be able do just say, here, we got the data from osm and you can get the data from us if you need to. Now the issue of access to the data from the user can be overridded by an EULA and all other restraints, like a clause that says : All our data belongs to us, if you want it back, fill out this FOI form and send it to the legal department, wait 3-6 weeks and please dont call. just thinking out out, I am not a laywer. mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] any advantage when using Quantum GIS (qgis) ?
I use qgis for : The rtools package that does intersections, difference and buffering of data, the raster contour plugin for creating ways from images, converting and working with shapefiles and all types of raster formats graphically, and alot of other nice tools qgis is great. mike On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Valent Turkovic valent.turko...@gmail.com wrote: http://mapserver.sk/~wonder/qgis/osmplugin_user_guide_draft.pdf I saw this pdf showing possibility of using osm data with real GIS software. But what is (if any) advantage using qgis? -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] any advantage when using Quantum GIS (qgis) ?
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Then the answer is no. Except for some specialist uses (e.g. for certain import or automated processing scenarios), I would not recommend to use QGIS to edit OSM data. However, QGIS is great for *processing* OSM data. I agree, We have had problems doing any upload or major editing in QGIS. m ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] ITO World website down
I am using the great change tracker, if they would publish the source, I could set it up for my areas on my server. then the load would be less. mike On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 3:21 AM, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote: Does anybody know when the http://www.itoworld.com/ website might be back online? There isn't even a notice to say it is down, but Richard told mee they had been talking about renovations to handle higher loads. I have a report to write over the weekend for my GIS class about a GIS tool, blog or journal article. I think the OSM Mapper tool gets forgotten a bit too much so I'll also post the report to my blog, if I get it written. Failing that, I might have to write a report about my own blog. :) -- Gregory o...@livingwithdragons.com http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] www.openaddresses.org BETA launched
Hey, Nice idea, I have been working on something similar, http://github.com/h4ck3rm1k3/OAD-Open-Address-Database But with the goal of geocoding table data into osm. mike 2010/3/30 Cédric MOULLET cedric.moul...@gmail.com: Dear OSM community, After www.openaddresses.ch and www.openaddresses.at, www.openaddresses.org has been launched to collect worldwide localized addresses. This initiative of several people, universities and companies of central Europe aims to provide a web portail for the management of free and open geolocated addresses. One goal of www.openaddresses.org is to collaborate nicely with www.openstreetmap.org by exchanging data and providing additional services (http://code.google.com/p/openaddresses/wiki/RESTService). However, since localized addresses are very specific, we consider that it is appropriate to have a dedicated platform only for addresses. From the original projects, the data collected base on Google map has simply be removed in order to avoid any license issues. Don't hesitate to add your own address, the address of your friends and of the friends of your friends ;-) If you'd like to be part of this effort, you can also provide address listing, orthophoto or whatever data that can be useful. We are also looking for persons willing to participate to the development, the translation, the system administration, the testing, the communication and so on ... You'll find more information in the following documents: Frequently asked questions User guide Wiki Discussion group Thanks for your interest. For OpenAddresses, Cédric Moullet ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] www.openaddresses.org BETA launched
I found this mentioned on legal, the data that is added to openaddresses is with a different license than osm, http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ I guess that they are dropping the sharealike clause on the data they import, this is questionable. If the data I contribute to osm is sharealike, how can they just drop the clause of that? mike On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 9:57 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Do all addresses added here are also added in OSM? How often is it updated? 2010/3/30 Cédric MOULLET cedric.moul...@gmail.com: Hi, It's not Cédric's project, but the project of a community (composed of individuals, companies and universities) initiated in 2007 ;-) (see press release: http://code.google.com/p/openaddresses/wiki/Release_BETA_PressRelease#EN:_OpenAddresses_.org,_a_community_web_site_for_the_management). But, I still can answer. First of all, the goal is to synchronize data with OSM, so at the end, we should find the same data in OA and OSM, but, OA also aims to provide services (http://code.google.com/p/openaddresses/wiki/RESTService). OA has also a geocoder in its roadmap, so It would be fantastic to collaborate with Mike's project. Hope this gives some valuable information, Thanks for your interest, Cédric On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 9:35 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/3/30 Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk: Why not use OAuth to enter the data straight back into OSM? Dunno about Cédric's project, but the basis of Mike's project was a repository of street addresses we don't have lat/lon for, but we have street addresses for things like POIs... -- Welcome to my world: http://www.cedricmoullet.com/ My Linked In profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cedricmoullet Twitter: http://twitter.com/cedricmoullet ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OpenAddresses.org CC3.0
Hey, I started a similar project http://github.com/h4ck3rm1k3/OAD-Open-Address-Database who was first? mike On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 11:06 PM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: Hi All, I saw that http://www.openaddresses.org/ is using http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ does that work with CCBYSA 2.0? They imported all the OSM address data into their system and then people will be adding to it. Thoughts? Thanks, Kate Chapman user:wonderchook ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] CFP Fwd: Software Freedom Kosova 2010
Call for papers, conference on FLOSS software, including OSM track, 25th and 26th of September in Kosovo http://www.scribd.com/doc/29092742/CfP10-SFK10-Software-Freedom-Kosova-Sept-25-26-2010-Prishtina-Kosovo please share, mike On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:43 PM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: bernard nikaj bernard.ni...@flossk.org Date: Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:32 PM Subject: Software Freedom Kosova 2010 Dear all, Following the success of the Software Freedom Kosova 2009 (SFK '09) Conference, FLOSSK and University of Prishtina are preparing to organize the next SFK '10 Conference. The conference will be held on 25th and 26th of September and we hope will attract speakers from around the world as it did in 2009. Considering that you have been among the speakers of SFK '09, I encourage you to submit papers/presentations for this years conference. At the same time, I would like to kindly ask you to pass the attached CfP and information about SFK '10 to any of your friends/colleagues that might be interested to participate/speak. It was a great honour having you in Prishtina last year. We hope to be able to welcome you again this year in any capacity you choose. Should you require any further information or assistance, feel free to contact us. Looking forward to hearing from you, with Best Regards, Bernard Nikaj Co-Chair, Papers/Programme Committee ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] signature
I have put the maps on the public drive: http://xhema.flossk.org:8080/mapdata/03/SkoderCityMap/tiles/ and split them into 1500x1500 for detailed usage on mapwarper. http://xhema.flossk.org:8080/mapdata/03/SkoderCityMap/smaller/ So next we need to register on http://warper.geothings.net/ and you can upload the maps, rectify them I have some video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPGMZojm1uE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHOTB57xDdE I have made rectified ones here: http://warper.geothings.net/maps/2239 http://warper.geothings.net/maps/2263 http://warper.geothings.net/maps/2264 Please help! mike On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Gent Thaçi gent...@gmail.com wrote: Amazing! On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 8:47 PM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, we have a signature for releasing the city map of shkoder for openstreetmap. thank you to Namik Kopliuku for releasing this map. mike -- Forwarded message -- From: Blendi Kraja ble...@blendikraja.com Date: Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 7:33 AM Subject: signature To: jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to gis-kosova+ unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE ME as the subject. -- Sincerely, Gent Thaqi. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to gis-kosova+ unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE ME as the subject. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
