Re: [Talk-GB] Solar tagging app

[Gregory Williams]

On Sun, 2020-11-08 at 15:17 +, Jeremy Harris wrote:
> On 19/10/2020 20:14, Gregory Williams wrote:
> > I've now got round to updating the code on my solar comparison site
> Suggestion for further improvement:  When a building is identifiable
> associated with a set of generators, only count one for comparison
> against the FIT data.  Then (say) a house with panels on two
> different
> roof-faces will not over-count for the geographical region.
> 
> (I just found an LSOA with 4 of 13 mapped.  But 2 were on one home.
> A terrace too, so now I must split it, so the 1 on another home in
> the block is really distinct)

Jeremy,

That certainly is one reason why the "completeness" figure is just a
guide, rather than an absolute. Perhaps you've seen that there are, for
example, some regions that have greater than 100% "completeness", and
I'm sure that multiple installations on a property does contribute to
this. Comparison with the FiT register will always never be perfect,
since as external observers we don't really know whether the multiple
sets of modules on a property are part of the same or separate FiT
contracts.

If the multiple instances on property have the same roof orientation
then you could use a multipolygon to collate those instances together.
Obviously this wouldn't be suitable for the multiple-roof scenario that
you describe, though.

You've also, pointed towards one of the gotchas that only counting a
single installation per property would currently have in many places.
We've got plenty of places where a terrace of houses have only been
mapped as a single building. Thus several installations, each on
separate properties, would only appear to be one installation when on a
single terrace building. It does, of course, give an incentive to go
out and map the addresses individually, of course! :-)

I'll consider how implementing this may be done in the code, but I
think it'll need some general tidying of it first; so wouldn't
necessarily be available straight away.

BTW, the code does actually do something similar already wrt solar
farms, to avoid overcounting the individual lines of modules in a
plant.

Cheers,

Gregory
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Re: [Talk-GB] Solar tagging app

[Gregory Williams]

I've now got round to updating the code on my solar comparison site to
cater for these different ways of tagging the orientation. It considers
these tags in this order:

- generator:orientation=*
- direction=*
- tilted=no

Regular users of the site may have noticed that I also recently added
counts of mapped orientations and module counts to the chart on the
summary page. A noticeable jump in the counts for orientation should be
seen in tomorrow morning's update.

Cheers,

Gregory

On Tue, 2020-10-06 at 20:44 +0100, Dan S wrote:
> Let's officially change over to "direction" then. I've edited the
> wiki
> page to reflect that.
> 
> Best
> Dan
> 
> Op di 6 okt. 2020 om 19:40 schreef Jeremy Harris :
> > On 06/10/2020 16:44, Russ Garrett wrote:
> > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_the_United_Kingdom/Rooftop_Solar_PV
> > 
> > One difference I make vs. that is "direction" rather than
> > "generator:orientation".  In iD, at least, you get a nice visual
> > of the view-angle then.
> > 
> > I use a point and a module-count.  If it's flat, I use "tilted:no"
> > rather than a direction.
> > 
> > https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/YLx  is my current "look for missing
> > tags" hunter.  Pick your area then hit the Run button.
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >   Jeremy
> > 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Solar tagging app

[Gregory Williams]

Thanks Russ!

I was only thinking of a similar idea just the other day. I've already
gone through probably a couple of hundred installations. Perhaps a
future extensions could allow:
- A "Are you sure that's a PV system?" option -- I've seen perhaps a
couple where I'm not sure whether it's actually a PV system. Perhaps a
check from another imagery source, or a ground survey, could clear
things up?
- Click twice to measure the orientation (although perhaps more suited
to using on a computer, rather than a mobile / tablet?)

Cheers,

Gregory

On Sun, 2020-10-04 at 15:41 +0100, Russ Garrett wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I got annoyed with tagging the number of modules in solar generators,
> so I put together a quick crowdsourcing app to collect this data:
> 
> https://solartagger.ru.dev/
> 
> It's definitely a lot quicker than trying to do this in an editor!
> 
> Once we have panel counts that multiple people have agreed on, I'll
> batch insert the data into OSM using a new account - I will update
> this list once that is happening.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Solar Power mapping update Q2 2020

[Gregory Williams]

Thanks Jerry, and thanks to everyone that's continued to contribute
more coverage.

The next quarter's update to the FiT register should be published in
the next few days. So I hope to find time to update the site to use
that soon.

I continue to be amazed at the steady progress in the coverage. Though,
as you say, there are quite a few areas where the imagery either just
isn't clear enough to untangle the ambiguities, or is clear but isn't
recent enough.

Personally, I've recently been trying to concentrate on a mixture of
areas with less than 10% coverage, and on the lightly-mapped LSOA
hotspots that my tool picked out.

Cheers,

Gregory

On Thu, 2020-07-02 at 18:56 +0100, SK53 wrote:
> We passed a couple of milestones a few days ago:
> 20% of FIT totals
> 170k individual panels mapped (excluding those in solar farms)
> In terms of coverage there are now well over 50 LAs (all in England &
> Wales) with more than 50% of solar installations mapped, with around
> 10 exceeding 80%. Areas with good coverage are:
> Scottish Central Belt: helped no doubt by more atomic data much of
> the Central Belt is around 20% mapped.
> North-East (former Tyne & Wear): Newcastle, Gateshead, Sunderland and
> North & South Tyne.
> North Wales: Conwy, Flint, Denbigh & Wrexham. Most panels in the
> first three are in the coastal resort towns, but reasonable rural
> coverage.
> North West: recent activity has been around Preston, Blackburn Wigan
> and Chorley.
> East Midlands: mainly Leics & Notts. Improved & recent imagery for
> Leicester made a huge difference.
> West Midlands: Warwickshire, Worcestershire & Herefordshire are
> roughly in the 20-30% zone. ALso extending into the South Wales
> valleys. brianboru's detailed mapping in the latter is another good
> index of rural coverage. 
> South Coast: Bournemouth area & Southampton, all at over 50%
> More rural areas continue to be challenging: older imagery which is
> often difficult to interpret doesn't help. I've experimented in
> places where every building is already mapped by stepping through
> each building, but still one may only find 20% of the number in FIT.
> 
> London and immediately adjacent areas also have relatively little
> mapped. Imagery can be a problem, but also finding panels in older
> and/or larger housing with more complex roof shapes is hard.
> 
> One thing I'm continually amazed at is how many places have buildings
> mapped, which is very helpful for this task. However in a couple of
> places: Ribble Valley & Leicester - it is clear that better imagery
> would allow existing building outlines to be improved, but also that
> plenty of buildings have been extended, demolished or replaced. This
> type of activity lends itself to combined work using tools such as
> Tasking Manager or MapRoulette and might be worth considering in the
> future for a quarterly project.
> 
> There's still no shortage of places where a lot of panels can be
> mapped quickly, although more systematic mapping of a single LA often
> requires a couple of passes over imagery. 
> 
> Looking forward to achieving the next milestones of 200k & 25%.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> Personally, I'm concentrating on areas adjacent to the existing well-
> mapped (50%+) areas with the aim of extending these areas.
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Solar panels 150k up

[Gregory Williams]

On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 11:08 +0100, SK53 wrote:
> Just would like to point out that we passed the 150,000 mark of solar
> panels mapped in the UK. Dan & Jez are best informed about solar
> farms, so the rest of this update is on small domestic rooftop
> installations.
> 
> A number of us continue to spend time mapping rooftop panels, and,
> although progress is not at the heady rate of last Summer, this has
> resulted in improved coverage of a number of local authorities. These
> are the activities of which I'm aware, there are no doubt others I've
> missed:
> I mainly aim to push reasonably well-mapped LAs over various
> thresholds (50%, 60% & 80% are the ones I find most useful), and to
> try & create a contiguous band of well-mapped (>50%) across England &
> Wales. Recently I've worked on Flintshire, Hinckley & Bosworth and
> Vale Royal.
> gurglypipe continues to spread out beyond Lancaster into South Lakes
> to the N & Ribbledale and to the S
> brianboru continues to pick up a significant number of installations
> across Herefordshire & the Welsh Valleys as part of general mapping
> work
> Gregory Williams continues to focus on hotspot unmapped LSOAs
> MapRoulette users make a steady contribution by converting panels
> mapped as nodes to areas
> Gregory has recently updated the FIT data to March which added
> perhaps 20,000 additional installations. To deal with these he had to
> change the LA boundaries used to incorporate unitary authorities
> (affecting Cheshire, Cornwall, Wiltshire, Shropshire, Northumberland
> & perhaps others). One consequence is that some well-mapped districts
> dropped below thresholds, so I've been working over the last few days
> to restore them if possible (Ashford, Hart & Rugby still to be hauled
> back over 50%). Very kindly, he agreed to retain the original
> district boundaries on a distinct web page, because I found working
> with the old districts of large rural counties more useful than the
> new boundaries.

The distinct web page is at:
http://osm.gregorywilliams.me.uk/solar_2001/

I also hope to soon have LSOA-level detail on the Scottish pages, which
should help with locating PV installations from aerial imagery more
easily -- I'm conscious that it's a bit difficult at the moment, with
the areas being so physically large.

> 
> As well as adding new panels here's still plenty to do with the ones
> already mapped: adding buildings under mapped panels, adjusting
> position, adding number of panels and orientation. 
> 
> Thanks to all who have contributed.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jerry
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Re: [Talk-GB] Solar panels quarterly project progress

[Gregory Williams]

Last night I updated my solar mapping comparison tool to include coverage of 
Scotland. Unfortunately it had only covered England and Wales up until now 
because my comparison with the FiT register data was performed at the LSOA 
level. For Scotland, the comparison is being performed just at the local 
authority level. The tool is here:

http://osm.gregorywilliams.me.uk/solar/index.html
Some other recent additions that I've made to the tool are:

  *
A "Last updated" column -- showing the date of the last addition / change to a 
solar panel object here;
  *
A "FiT" layer, showing the relative number of PV installations that the FiT 
register has for this area, regardless of whether we've mapped them yet in OSM. 
I.e. a way to seek out where installations are situated, such that a survey can 
be planned;
  *
An "OSM objects" layer, that shows the location of each OSM-mapped PV 
installation, to help keep track of progress in systematically surveying for PV 
installations.

I'm hoping to find time to add further functionality over the coming weeks.

Gregory

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On Jul 30 2019, at 9:05 pm, Dan S  wrote:
Hi all,

The current quarterly project is: solar panels. The good news: we've hit 25,000!
(From a baseline of fewer than 5,000 at the start of the year.)
https://twitter.com/mclduk/status/1156274870625472513

Great work folks. It'd be great to find a way to get other people to
help spot solar panels in their own neck of the woods. But we're on
our way!

Dan

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Re: [Talk-GB] Tools to support solar panel mapping?

[Gregory Williams]

I was thinking the same thing on the "hot-spots" functionality the other day. 
I've just added that now. There's now a layer chooser, allowing choice between 
"Comparison" (as before) and "FiT", which colours between the least and most 
installations according to the FiT register in that local authority.

I'll try to address the other points as I get time -- all good points.

Updated version should appear online over the next few minutes.

Regards,

Gregory

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On Jun 24 2019, at 7:52 pm, SK53  wrote:
A few other things:

  *
In practice we have relatively little mapped, so identifying 'hot-spot' LSOAs 
quickly would be very useful. I just had a browse around and found a few with 
around 50 FIT installations around the village of Selston (Ashfield District). 
I haven't got them all, but am pleased to have added 125 quickly.  I still only 
managed to find 32 in one LSOA when the fit installation count is 51: I suspect 
this is related to imagery date, rather than me missing obvious ones. The 50 
installation threshold is a pretty high percentage of properties and represents 
good bang for buck.
  *
For the same reason sortable listings would be nice (also true on Robert's 
various pages).
  *
Cornwall has a large number (17k+), finding hotspots in a big county is very 
useful.
  *
From a QA viewpoint a count of location=roof or generator:location=roof might 
be useful as well. All the FIT installs are likely to be of this type.

Jerry


On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 19:41, Gregory Williams 
mailto:greg...@gregorywilliams.me.uk>> wrote:
Thanks Jerry. I've spotted the bug and am regenerating the output now.

Regards,

Gregory

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On Jun 24 2019, at 3:28 pm, SK53 
mailto:sk53@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Gregory,

I suspect this does not currently take account of roof-top solar power mapped 
as nodes. My last tally for Nottingham is a total of 4,385 solar PV generators 
(3,760 mapped as nodes, 625 as ways), compared with your total of 621. I added 
solar panels on 3 houses on Saturday (one with 2 .generators because they face 
in different directions). It would be massively helpful if nodes could be added.

In general it is much, much easier to map roof top solar as nodes, perhaps with 
an estimate of the number of modules in the panel(currently we use 
generator:solar:modules for this). Once one has one's eye in for a particular 
area and sets of imagery it's best to capture the data as quickly as possible. 
Mapping panels as areas is more complex, for relatively small gain. I did this 
for a single area initially, and now tend to do it in two cases: a) larger 
panels on schools, commercial buildings etc; and b) newly observed panels 
noticed as part of general surveying or just casually. The choice of which to 
do will depend on panel density in a neighbourhood, and whether buildings are 
already mapped.

Regards,

Jerry



On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 at 21:20, Gregory Williams 
mailto:greg...@gregorywilliams.me.uk>> wrote:
All,

I've also been working on a comparison tool for OSM solar mapping, as compared 
with the FiT register. I've just placed an initial version here:

http://osm.gregorywilliams.me.uk/solar<https://link.getmailspring.com/link/9144b288-8b95-41e3-89bb-577401924...@getmailspring.com/0?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fosm.gregorywilliams.me.uk%2Fsolar=dGFsay1nYkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D>
My version compares at LLSOA level and then aggregates them up to their local 
authorities and the whole country. It's been pretty much inspired by Robert 
Whittaker and Greg RS's ever-useful comparison tools. It's functional, but 
still needs some polish. Known issues include:


  *
Currently updated manually. I currently hope to update every few days, and 
eventually daily;
  *
The tool differentiates between solar plants and generators, and avoids 
counting individual generators in a plant. Currently, though, it counts plants 
towards completeness, even though it's likely that these are solar farms in 
excess of the size used in the FiT register;
  *
Only the number of installations is used for comparison at present, not the 
electricity output;
  *
There are only maps on the local authority pages at the moment, not on the 
country summary page.

I aim to add some more functionality to the site over the next few days and 
weeks.

Regards,

Gregory

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Re: [Talk-GB] Tools to support solar panel mapping?

[Gregory Williams]

Thanks Jerry. I've spotted the bug and am regenerating the output now.

Regards,

Gregory

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On Jun 24 2019, at 3:28 pm, SK53  wrote:
Hi Gregory,

I suspect this does not currently take account of roof-top solar power mapped 
as nodes. My last tally for Nottingham is a total of 4,385 solar PV generators 
(3,760 mapped as nodes, 625 as ways), compared with your total of 621. I added 
solar panels on 3 houses on Saturday (one with 2 .generators because they face 
in different directions). It would be massively helpful if nodes could be added.

In general it is much, much easier to map roof top solar as nodes, perhaps with 
an estimate of the number of modules in the panel(currently we use 
generator:solar:modules for this). Once one has one's eye in for a particular 
area and sets of imagery it's best to capture the data as quickly as possible. 
Mapping panels as areas is more complex, for relatively small gain. I did this 
for a single area initially, and now tend to do it in two cases: a) larger 
panels on schools, commercial buildings etc; and b) newly observed panels 
noticed as part of general surveying or just casually. The choice of which to 
do will depend on panel density in a neighbourhood, and whether buildings are 
already mapped.

Regards,

Jerry


On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 at 21:20, Gregory Williams 
mailto:greg...@gregorywilliams.me.uk>> wrote:
All,

I've also been working on a comparison tool for OSM solar mapping, as compared 
with the FiT register. I've just placed an initial version here:

http://osm.gregorywilliams.me.uk/solar<https://link.getmailspring.com/link/9144b288-8b95-41e3-89bb-577401924...@getmailspring.com/0?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fosm.gregorywilliams.me.uk%2Fsolar=dGFsay1nYkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D>
My version compares at LLSOA level and then aggregates them up to their local 
authorities and the whole country. It's been pretty much inspired by Robert 
Whittaker and Greg RS's ever-useful comparison tools. It's functional, but 
still needs some polish. Known issues include:


  *
Currently updated manually. I currently hope to update every few days, and 
eventually daily;
  *
The tool differentiates between solar plants and generators, and avoids 
counting individual generators in a plant. Currently, though, it counts plants 
towards completeness, even though it's likely that these are solar farms in 
excess of the size used in the FiT register;
  *
Only the number of installations is used for comparison at present, not the 
electricity output;
  *
There are only maps on the local authority pages at the moment, not on the 
country summary page.

I aim to add some more functionality to the site over the next few days and 
weeks.

Regards,

Gregory

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On Jun 10 2019, at 8:37 pm, Dan S 
mailto:danstowell%2b...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all,

Following up on this thread about tools to support solar mapping -
just to say that thanks to Sylwia Mielnicka there's a map of
completeness-per-postcode-district:
https://bl.ocks.org/SylwiaOliwia2/cf0d679e81a7c8bfee189ec364bb
I think this is going to get set up to run daily updates or similar.
Discussion forum:
<http://openclimatefix.discourse.group/t/plot-solar-panels-not-added-to-osm-yet/56/3>

There's also a chance that we can get this at higher granularity (for
England and Wales) at least, by using LSOAs rather than postcode
districts. Another person has said they'll have a go at merging the
two granularities.

Best
Dan


Op do 23 mei 2019 om 08:57 schreef Dan S 
mailto:danstowell%2b...@gmail.com>>:

Hi

Related to the idea of solar panel mapping, I've had a request for
info about what sort of software tools might help support this work.
We might be using some of the familiar tools (e.g. streetcomplete,
openinframap, ... even tasking manager?).

It'd be useful to have something like
completeness-by-postcode-district. Unlike Robert's postbox tools, we
don't have any official ID numbers for the items-to-map, we just have
some official stats (to be taken with a pinch of salt) about how many
are in each postcode district - but still, that could be a start.

I'd also be interested in some tool that predicts where to look, which
might be based on analysing imagery, but perhaps more realistically
based on some mix of heuristics and official data.

Any thoughts?

Best
Dan

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Re: [Talk-GB] Tools to support solar panel mapping?

[Gregory Williams]

All,

I've also been working on a comparison tool for OSM solar mapping, as compared 
with the FiT register. I've just placed an initial version here:

http://osm.gregorywilliams.me.uk/solar
My version compares at LLSOA level and then aggregates them up to their local 
authorities and the whole country. It's been pretty much inspired by Robert 
Whittaker and Greg RS's ever-useful comparison tools. It's functional, but 
still needs some polish. Known issues include:


  *
Currently updated manually. I currently hope to update every few days, and 
eventually daily;
  *
The tool differentiates between solar plants and generators, and avoids 
counting individual generators in a plant. Currently, though, it counts plants 
towards completeness, even though it's likely that these are solar farms in 
excess of the size used in the FiT register;
  *
Only the number of installations is used for comparison at present, not the 
electricity output;
  *
There are only maps on the local authority pages at the moment, not on the 
country summary page.

I aim to add some more functionality to the site over the next few days and 
weeks.

Regards,

Gregory

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On Jun 10 2019, at 8:37 pm, Dan S  wrote:
Hi all,

Following up on this thread about tools to support solar mapping -
just to say that thanks to Sylwia Mielnicka there's a map of
completeness-per-postcode-district:
https://bl.ocks.org/SylwiaOliwia2/cf0d679e81a7c8bfee189ec364bb
I think this is going to get set up to run daily updates or similar.
Discussion forum:


There's also a chance that we can get this at higher granularity (for
England and Wales) at least, by using LSOAs rather than postcode
districts. Another person has said they'll have a go at merging the
two granularities.

Best
Dan


Op do 23 mei 2019 om 08:57 schreef Dan S :

Hi

Related to the idea of solar panel mapping, I've had a request for
info about what sort of software tools might help support this work.
We might be using some of the familiar tools (e.g. streetcomplete,
openinframap, ... even tasking manager?).

It'd be useful to have something like
completeness-by-postcode-district. Unlike Robert's postbox tools, we
don't have any official ID numbers for the items-to-map, we just have
some official stats (to be taken with a pinch of salt) about how many
are in each postcode district - but still, that could be a start.

I'd also be interested in some tool that predicts where to look, which
might be based on analysing imagery, but perhaps more realistically
based on some mix of heuristics and official data.

Any thoughts?

Best
Dan

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Re: [Talk-GB] Tools to support solar panel mapping?

[Gregory Williams]

I note that the FiT register data does have the LLSOA for each entry. So I 
think that could be used as a means of measuring completeness in a more 
granular manner than local authority or the first half of the postcode. The OSM 
data can also be determined per LLSOA. Both the number of installations and the 
total generating capacity could be used. It'd never be perfect, but would help 
to identify areas to survey on the ground.

Gregory

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On May 23 2019, at 11:57 pm, Dan S  wrote:
Thanks Rob - we're using the FiT register already, but please note
that it doesn't disclose any official IDs (for privacy reasons, I
presume) so there's no "primary key", no definitive way to join the
dots e.g. across different versions of the FiT data. The REPD has a
primary key but it only covers larger installations. Most
installations, even if we can find metadata for them, we can't find an
official ID, AFAIK?

Dan

Op do 23 mei 2019 om 23:03 schreef Rob Nickerson :

we don't have any official ID numbers for the items-to-map

I'm almost certain I have pointed it out here already, but in case not: any 
solar PV installation which is receiving a subsidy will be registered and will 
therefore have an ID. Larger installations are installed in the Renewable 
Obligations register. Smaller sites are in the Feed In Tariff register.

The FiT register can be downloaded (in 3 parts) from:
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications-and-updates/feed-tariff-installation-report-31-march-2019

The RO register can be obtained from the following site. You need to click 
"view public reports", then "Accredited Stations", Next set the page size to 25 
and view the report. Once loaded you can then click the export drop down (the 
save icon/floppy disk) and export the full register to a CSV.
https://www.renewablesandchp.ofgem.gov.uk/

P.S. this is good for almost all sites built up to now. Going forward then 
other sources will need to be found* as the subsidy schemes have come to an end.

* there are none.

Best regards,
Rob

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Re: [Talk-GB] Documenting prow_ref formats (Was: MapthePaths & Lancashire)

[Gregory Williams]

I think it's Non-Civil Parish.

Sent from Mailspring 
(https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/0?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fgetmailspring.com%2F=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D),
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On Jul 19 2018, at 2:14 am, Andrew Black  wrote:
>
> Surrey seems ot have a format of " Banstead NCP 123A". But existing entries 
> in OSM are "FP 37".
>
> What does NCP mean. I will enter then as f " Banstead FP 37" unless told 
> otherwise!
>
>
>
>
> On 14 July 2018 at 17:27, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) 
>  (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/1?redirect=mailto%3Arobert.whittaker%2Bosm%40gmail.com=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D)>
>  wrote:
> > On 13 July 2018 at 19:26, Andrew Black  > (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/2?redirect=mailto%3Aandrewdblack%40googlemail.com=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D)>
> >  wrote:
> > > I am pondering a similar but simpler question. I would like to add a table
> > > listing each authority at 
> > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:prow_ref 
> > > (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/3?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstreetmap.org%2Fwiki%2FKey%3Aprow_ref=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D)
> > > describing the conventions used.
> >
> > I've been working on something like this already as part of my PRoW
> > Progress/Comparison tool at
> > http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/progress/ 
> > (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/4?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Frobert.mathmos.net%2Fosm%2Fprow%2Fprogress%2F=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D)
> >  . The tool needs to know
> > the format that's used in each area in order to correctly parse the
> > prow_ref values use in OSM, and to generate Right of Way numbers to
> > display. The formats are stored in my database as a regular expression
> > for parsing and a sprinf format string for generating the output. I've
> > been displaying the formats on the county and parish pages for some
> > time, but I've now added a page showing the formats for each county
> > where one is defined:
> >
> > http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/ref-formats/ 
> > (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/5?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Frobert.mathmos.net%2Fosm%2Fprow%2Fref-formats%2F=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D)
> > These are the formats currently used by my tool. They may not always
> > be the best one, as sometimes there didn't seem to be a consistent
> > format in use (either by the Council or in OSM), and so sometimes I've
> > just opted for my default "[Parish Name] [Type] [Number]" style. I can
> > add other counties on request. I'm also more than happy to amend any
> > of the formats already there if there's a consensus amongst local
> > mappers to use something different.
> >
> > One thing to be aware of though, is that the GIS data provided by the
> > councils is usually not the official Definitive Map, but just a
> > working representation of it. Often the council will assign reference
> > numbers to parishes, and segment numbers to the ways that are just for
> > internal convenience, and don't form part of the official PRoW number
> > as defined in the Definitive Map and Statement. My philosophy in the
> > above is to try to stick to the official numbering as used in the
> > Definitive Map and Statement.
> >
> > I plan to add a download of the data at
> > http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/ref-formats/ 
> > (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/6?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Frobert.mathmos.net%2Fosm%2Fprow%2Fref-formats%2F=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D)
> >  (probably in JSON
> > format) at some point so anyone else who wants to can make us of this
> > data more easily. I also have CSV files containing parish IDs and
> > names for the counties where it's necessary to do this translation,
> > which I can make available. For those using rowmaps data, sometimes
> > you'll find the parish name in the INFO field, but the presence and
> > format of this varies from county to county.
> >
> > Robert.
> > --
> > Robert Whittaker
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-GB mailing list
> > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org 
> > (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/7?redirect=mailto%3ATalk-GB%40openstreetmap.org=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D)
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb 
> > 

Re: [Talk-GB] UK Postcode Error Reports

[Gregory Williams]

I think that most of the reduction was due to me going through the obvious 
formatting issues last weekend. I used an import from the Geofabrik GB extract 
into an osm2pgsql database looking at the addr:postcode and postal_code tags. 
The database enabled me to easily get the appropriate OSM object IDs such that 
I could download and fix each in turn using JOSM after using some judgement.

I've also fixed a few way-off postcodes when compared to the distances to that 
which OS OpenData CodePoint thought that their centroids were at -- things like 
postcodes in Edinburgh (EH) mistakenly typed in with an Enfield (EN) postcode 
-- also identified using my import into PostGIS. Cases which were less clear 
I've added notes for, to have local mappers review.

Gregory
⁣

Sent from BlueMail

​

On 16 Nov 2016 20:36, at 20:36, "Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)" 
 wrote:
>My daily report of addr:postcode value errors at
>http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postcodes/osm-errors.html seems to be
>being used by at least one other person, since the numbers of errors
>showing there has dropped significantly now. The page is regenerated
>daily, but unfortunately the data hasn't been refreshed for a few days
>now because the source data on which it relies (The Geofrabrik GB
>extract via the GB Taginfo instance) hasn't been updated in that time.
>
>I've also starting playing with a second report that lists location
>discrepancies of postcode-tagged OSM objects compared with the
>postcode centroid locations in Code-Point Open. This is less of an
>exact science, since postcodes will not all be located at the centroid
>for that postcode unit, and the allowable deviations vary depending on
>the unit. However, you can find an initial list of postcodes that are
>more than 1km from their official centroid at
>http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postcodes/location-errors.cgi -- there
>are about 1500 of them, although quite a few are in groups where the
>same postcode is on multiple neighbouring objects. Presumably most of
>the 1500 will be cases of a typo being made by an editor or in the
>data source they used, so they'll need manual checking and updating.
>
>If anyone fancies looking at any of these please feel free to dive in.
>If you find any false positives (i.e. errors in the processing, or
>postcodes that genuinely are that far from their centroid), please let
>me know, and I'll see if there's anything that can be improved in the
>tool, or if they need to be marked manually as ok.
>
>Robert.
>
>-- 
>Robert Whittaker
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM registrations by County

[Gregory Williams]

Steve,

I hope it's not too late to reply for your friend's article deadline. 
I've just downloaded the latest Kent extract from Geofabrik and counted 
the unique UID values in it. I get exactly 1500. Clearly some mappers 
will have contributed just one or two features and others will be much 
more active. Also, if a mapper's contributions got entirely wiped out 
by somebody else updating or deleting them then they won't show up in 
the figure.


I'm one of the main mappers in East Kent. Perhaps this graphic of 
mapping in East Kent (albeit a few years old) would be useful:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/7/76/EastKentMapping.png

Cheers,

Gregory

On Fri, 29 Jul, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Steve Chilton  
wrote:
Has anyone a way of finding how many people in county of Kent (UK) 
are registered with OSM, please?
A friend is writing piece for a local magazine to encourage take up 
in the county and wanted to be able to quote the number of existing 
mappers (yeh I know they don't all map who register).


Cheers
Steve
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Re: [Talk-GB] Changeset #36985172 revert request - Deal area, Kent

[Gregory Williams]

The JOSM reverter doesn't seem to be working at the moment, so I've 
used Frederick Ramm's perl reverter script [1] to perform the revert. A 
few relations seem to have been edited since (presumably the 
coastline). I've taken a cursory glance through the boundaries and 
route relations and they seem to be OK, but I'll try to sanity check 
the data in more depth after work tonight.


Gregory

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Revert_scripts

On Thu, 4 Feb, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Colin Smale <colin.sm...@xs4all.nl> 
wrote:

Thanks Gregory. The epicentre seems to be Ringwould village.


Colin

On 2016-02-04 17:50, Gregory Williams wrote:

I did the original mapping of Deal, so I'll take a look later, when 
I can get to a PC.


Gregory

Sent from my FairPhoneOn 4 Feb 2016 16:13, Andy Townsend 
<ajt1...@gmail.com> wrote:


On 04/02/2016 15:49, Colin Smale wrote:


Actually, this user has done a lot more damage, in many other 
changesets over the past few weeks... Methinks a candidate for a 
block pending contact... Anyone with an interest in the Deal area 
is recommended to check the area...ent



I'd suggest that a friendly "hello and welcome and by the way 
something seems to have gone a bit wrong" message would be more 
helpful at this time - it's technically much easier to sort out the 
data than it is to get a keen mapper back who was scared off 
because they don't understand what they've done wrong.  Currently I 
can see only 2 comments in changeset discussions (saying 
essentially "you broke stuff and I fixed it"; not offering to help).


Obviously any help and assistance would be better coming from 
someone in the local area; 
http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/oooc?zoom=9=51.19266=1.54631=B00 
may be useful here to try and get someone local involved.


Cheers,

Andy (SomeoneElse)



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Re: [Talk-GB] Changeset #36985172 revert request - Deal area, Kent

[Gregory Williams]

I did the original mapping of Deal, so I'll take a look later, when I can get 
to a PC.

Gregory

Sent from my FairPhoneOn 4 Feb 2016 16:13, Andy Townsend  
wrote:
>
> On 04/02/2016 15:49, Colin Smale wrote:
>>
>> Actually, this user has done a lot more damage, in many other changesets 
>> over the past few weeks... Methinks a candidate for a block pending 
>> contact... Anyone with an interest in the Deal area is recommended to check 
>> the area...ent
>
>
> I'd suggest that a friendly "hello and welcome and by the way something seems 
> to have gone a bit wrong" message would be more helpful at this time - it's 
> technically much easier to sort out the data than it is to get a keen mapper 
> back who was scared off because they don't understand what they've done 
> wrong.  Currently I can see only 2 comments in changeset discussions (saying 
> essentially "you broke stuff and I fixed it"; not offering to help).
>
> Obviously any help and assistance would be better coming from someone in the 
> local area; 
> http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/oooc?zoom=9=51.19266=1.54631=B00
>  may be useful here to try and get someone local involved.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy (SomeoneElse)
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Street cabinets

[Gregory Williams]

For some types of cabinet there’s already tags available, e.g.:

 

Traffic counter:

man_made=monitoring_station + monitoring:traffic=*

 

Air quality monitoring:

man_made=monitoring_station + monitoring:air_quality=*

 

Cheers,

 

Gregory

 

From: François Lacombe [mailto:francois.laco...@telecom-bretagne.eu] 
Sent: 10 February 2014 15:38
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Street cabinets

 

Well, the proposal has been created and hosted on this page :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Street_cabinet

It's obviously a draft yet, many elements are missing.

I will ask @tagging a few more additional tags.

Thank you for your feedbacks and feel free to use Talk page.



Cheers.




François Lacombe

francois dot lacombe At telecom-bretagne dot eu
http://www.infos-reseaux.com

 

2014-02-10 9:34 GMT+01:00 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk 
mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk :

François Lacombe wrote:

For electricity, we do have power=cable_distribution_cabinet but IMHO it's
definitely to specific.
It would be replaced by man_made=street_cabinet +
street_cabinet=power_distribution (+ operator=* + ref=* if applicable)

Sounds a very reasonable expansion allowing finer detail to be recorded.

 

And obviously there are traffic control, road lights and all other public
facilities.

Certainly traffic lights have similar street furniture ...

 

In France, we have kind of postal boxes where a postal service employee deposits
letters as for allowing a second person to distribute them later.

We have the same thing in the UK as well ...

This should probably be in the tagging list ... but I'm probably not alone in 
not having even joined that :)

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk



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Re: [OSM-talk] Parking map

[Gregory Williams]

That's the sort of thing that Overpass turbo does:

http://overpass-turbo.eu/

 -Original Message-
 From: Gervase Markham [mailto:gerv-gm...@gerv.net]
 Sent: 07 June 2013 16:52
 To: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Parking map
 
 On 06/06/13 22:02, colliar wrote:
  Do you know this map ? Would be a start.
 
  http://parking.openstreetmap.de/
 
 I have seen that, yes, thank you. But that does not have the capability to
 update the parking info based on the time of day. And it would be hard to
 add it, because the tiles are rendered PNGs, not vector data.
 
 So I think that my problem requires a fairly different solution.
 
 Has anyone done any sort of application which involves downloading OSM
 data from an API and rendering it (using SVG or otherwise) on top of a
tile
 baselayer?
 
 Gerv
 
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Railway bridge numbers

[Gregory Williams]

Yes, this is what I do. In fact the example which Chris picked out was done by 
me a few years ago when I cycled through the area. I’ve tagged quite a few 
bridges like this in Kent. You’ll also notice that I’ve included the operator, 
operator’s phone number, bridge name, etc. on the relation too when they’re 
included on the sign.

 

Railway structure numbers seem to have a letter portion, which denotes the 
line, and a sequential numeric portion. Occasionally there are places where an 
extra bridge has been added and these have a letter suffix, just like extra 
motorway junctions.

 

Cheers,

 

Gregory

 

From: Chris Hill [mailto:o...@raggedred.net] 
Sent: 09 April 2013 14:55
To: Andy Mabbett; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Railway bridge numbers

 

Some railway bridges near me have already been added to a bridge relation, not 
by me, that includes the reference. See 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/446579 as an example. I don't know 
if this a good idea or not, nor if the number is what you have in mind.

Cheers, Chris
OSM User chillly

Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk mailto:a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk  
wrote:

All railway bridges (over- and under-) in the UK have a unique number.
often carried on a metal (more recently plastic) identification plate,
or painted on:

http://www.semgonline.com/structures/numbering.html

Among other things, these are used to speedily identify the bridge in
case of a vehicle strike which may pose a danger to trains or other
traffic:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/3563.aspx

Do we have a scheme for tagging UK railway bridges with their numbers?
I have looked on Wiki, and can't find anything, and my local bridges
are either not tagged; or tagged (for example) ref = B4124:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/103233329

which does not identify that number as being a NetworkRail reference
(if indeed it is, being on a road overbridge maintained by the local
authority).

If we do not have something more specific, I'm happy to draft
something for discussion.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk


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Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

[Gregory Williams]

One feature that I've found that I now use quite frequently to help with the
problems associated with increasingly detailed mapping is the Filter panel
in JOSM. Now that, for example, there's lots of landuse, buildings, and
highways all in fairly close proximity I have filters to pick out, for
example, just the highways. That enables me to avoid accidentally selecting
an adjacent woodland to a highway when adding a maxspeed for example.

 

One of the levels of detail that I've been collecting recently is the
maxspeed of all the roads in my area. I have a filter set up such that roads
with a maxspeed are dimmed, such that I can easily see the places that I
still need to gather the data, and such that I don't miss tagging those
small portions of roads, like turning heads and bridges.

 

From: Nick Allen [mailto:nick.allen...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 02 January 2013 22:24
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

 

Steve,

Putting another perspective on this, one of my other hobbies is Scouting,
where I try to teach young people about maps  navigation. In this country
there is a tendency to assume that any navigation must involve OS maps,  I
try to widen their knowledge  get them to question the accuracy of anything
they are using for navigation. I've put in quite a few boundaries 
barriers, to OSM, and I produce paper maps for my Scouts to navigate by,
before I introduce them to compasses, GPS's  anything else that aids
navigation.

As a mapper, I do find that it is getting more  more difficult to alter or
add to data because we've added so much detail. I would like someone (sorry,
don't have any skills in the software department) to produce something that
aids in editing densely compacted data - certainly I've made my share of
mistakes in the past  then spent twice as long trying to correct them. 

I don't know about anyone else, but every so often I need a break from
walking residential streets collating address details, and a walk in the
countryside works for me.

Regards

Nick (Tallguy)

On 02/01/13 15:50, Steven Horner wrote:

I guess it depends on your uses for OSM, I come from a walking
backgroundwith GIS use in my day job, I have completed Mountain Leader
Training and I am interested in the possibilities of replacing Explorer maps
(one day) with OSM. For this to happen boundaries would be  useful although
not essential and their would be lot of other hurdles like Grids but that's
a different topic. 

 

I set this discussion away and expected different view points for and
against. My take on all this is if you are happy to go out and map them,
then do so. If someone else isn't interested in doing that then that's no
problem and if a user doesn't want that information shown on map it could be
removed from their rendering in the same way I wish it was available at
lower zoom levels.

 

OSM is different things to different people and that is part of the beauty
of it, in my mind the more detail the better the ability to view it our own
ways is available although I wish their was a way to turn some things on and
off more easily from Openstreetmap.org without rendering my own version.

 

 

 

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com
mailto:dave...@madasafish.com  wrote:

On 31/12/2012 21:17, Steven Horner wrote:

Personally I would love to see fields (landuse) and the walls/fences that
make this up marked on OSM ...


I'm afraid I'm going to be a bit of a party pooper.

Whilst having all the boundary data in OSM would be nice, I'd hardly call it
essential. I do a lot of rural walking  always record  map any barriers
that are relevant to the path I'm on, but, personally,  I consider mapping
all hedges etc. a waste of time. Why bother if no one is ever going to use
that information by walking there?

I consider farmland as the base layer  therefore rarely map it as fields.

Cheers
Dave F.





 

-- 
  http://www.stevenhorner.com/images/swww.png www.stevenhorner.com
http://www.stevenhorner.com   

  http://www.stevenhorner.com/images/stwitter.png  @stevenhorner
http://twitter.com/stevenhorner  

  http://www.stevenhorner.com/images/sphone.png  0191 645 2265 

  http://www.stevenhorner.com/images/sskype.png  stevenhorner






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Re: [Talk-GB] Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM: prow_ref=

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)
 [mailto:robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com]
 Sent: 02 January 2013 11:23
 To: talk-gb
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM: prow_ref=
 
 On 31 December 2012 16:38, David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net wrote:
  Not that I'm overly bothered, but since the wiki was only changed a
  few hours ago, and tag info statistics seem to show a greater usage of
  prow:ref, I'd have thought standardising on that (and changing the
  wiki) would have been the better option.
 
 Do you remember what figures were you looking at?
 
 The taginfo data I'm looking at today at
 http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=prow_ref is dated as
 2013-01-02 00:58 UTC and shows 670 uses of prow_ref, versus only 361 of
 prow:ref. Have things changed that much in a couple of days?


Sorry that's probably mainly down to me, but I never got round to emailing
this list. After reading the email the other day pointing out that prow_ref
is more in keeping with things like old_ref and int_ref and that prow:ref
implied a prow namespace I was inclined to agree. As somebody that's put in
quite a few prow:ref tags I went and changed them to prow_ref, but got
interrupted before I could send a quick email to the list.

Gregory


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Re: [Talk-GB] Unfit for motors - tagging for routing

[Gregory Williams]

motor_vehicle=no says that motor vehicles aren't legally allowed along the
road. That's not the case as Aidan has pointed out that these are the
blue-backed advisory signs. If going with the commonly-used tags then I
think that, whilst it's still technically not right,
motor_vehicle=destination would be a better hack. However I don't like
hacks.

 

There are several roads near me marked Unsuitable for HGVs, a similar
blue-backed advisory sign, which I've tagged with hgv=unsuitable. I don't
know whether any of the routers actually do anything with this at the
moment, but I think that the best tagging for the Unfit for motors would
be the equivalent motor_vehicle=unfit or motor_vehicle=unsuitable.
Personally I can't see any difference between saying unfit or
unsuitable, so I'd be tempted to go with the one that's currently got the
greatest number of uses, motor_vehicle=unsuitable (though with only 11
uses according to taginfo it's hardly high!; 0 instances of
motor_vehicle=unfit).

 

I think that changing the class of the road to service isn't the best way of
recording the data. These roads will quite often legally be an unclassified
highway and changing the class away from that just isn't accurate. In my
view it'd be better for the routers to start taking into account the
x=unsuitable style of tagging, though I realise that it's the usual
chicken and egg situation here when the use of such tags is currently very
sparse.

 

From: Aidan McGinley [mailto:aidmcgin+openstreet...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 10 December 2012 14:30
To: cotswolds mapper
Cc: talk-gb
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Unfit for motors - tagging for routing

 

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:motor_vehicle motor_vehicle=no
should suffice I would have thought?

On 10 December 2012 13:36, cotswolds mapper osmcotswo...@gmail.com
mailto:osmcotswo...@gmail.com  wrote:

There are lots of roads where I map which have Unfit for motors signs
(blue/white advisory) but are normal maintained roads in limited but regular
use. Typically they are narrowish, with lots of bends and often steep. In
general anything up to maybe the size of a skip lorry can get through
(though some are too narrow), but what makes them unfit for motors is very
long stretches without passing places,so if you meet something coming the
other way, one of you has a very long, difficult reverse.

 

They are currently tagged in OSM as minor roads, which of course means they
are eligible for routing. As an example, most (all?) routing services (not
just OSM-based, Google Maps has the same problem) will route Chalford Hill
to Stroud along Dark Lane, but Dark Lane has an Unfit for motors sign.
It's the shortest and most direct route from the A419 to most of Chalford
Hill, but very few locals use it. 

 

I'd like to tag these roads so that routing services will avoid them, but
can't find any direct way of doing this. I've seen elsewhere that one mapper
has tagged similar roads as Service roads. This has two advantages: routing
services will ignore them(?); and service roads render differently so anyone
using the map visually will be less likely to use these roads. It's pushing
the current definition of service road rather a lot, but if you consider a
service road to be a road that should only be used to access locations
connected to the service road, then it seems within the spirit of the
definition.

 

There's a specific issue with Chalford Hill at the moment. Road closures
(due to collapsed retaining walls) mean that the popular routes to the
valley (Old Neighbourhood and to a lesser extent Coppice Hill) are closed
and likely to remain so for over a month. My local source (a parish
councilor) says that most locals are using a long diversion and avoiding
Dark Lane. (Traffic on Dark Lane has increased, and there was recently a
fist fight when two cars met and neither driver would reverse. Locals want
to make it temporarily one way, which would massively increase its
usefulness, but there's no quick way of doing this.)

 

My two questions:

 

1) Should OSM data discourage use of routes that locals -  who are likely to
be better than outsiders at coping with narrow lanes - avoid as too
problematic;

 

2) Is tagging usable but 'Unfit for motors' roads as service roads an
acceptable way of doing this or is there a better method (that is recognised
by current renderers and routing engines).

 

As my opinion on (1) is yes, I've tagged Dark Lane and a couple of even more
difficult roads as service roads, at least for the duration of the road
closures, but will happily revert the tag if there's a better way.

 

Rob


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Re: [Talk-GB] Sittingbourne

[Gregory Williams]

Chris,

 

I fully agree with these points. I've done a reasonable amount of mapping in
Sittingbourne, but my mapping tends to be centred around highways rather
than landuse or buildings. I have updated some similar tagging to what you
describe on schools in the past such that the buildings are tagged with
building=school and the extent of their grounds is tagged with
amenity=school, rather than the previous building=yes + amenity=school on
the same buildings.

 

I believe that lots of the buildings have been derived from automated
OS_OpenData_StreetView tracing by OSM user SemanticTourist. That probably
explains why they appear to cover multiple actual buildings in reality and
that they shape doesn't always correspond terribly well to the crisper
buildings you can see in the Bing imagery there. You may have noticed that
the building coverage actually spreads beyond just Sittingbourne to quite a
sizable chunk of Swale borough centred on the town.

 

Thanks for the work you've done here so far. As far as I'm concerned as a
local mapper feel free to update the problematic tagging as you've
described. I'll probably be able to help out eventually, but am currently
concentrating on getting widespread maxspeed coverage in the eastern half of
Kent and would prefer to get this essentially complete before starting
another large mapping challenge.

 

Gregory

 

From: Chris Baines [mailto:cbain...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 29 November 2012 20:59
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-GB] Sittingbourne

 

I was looking at the OSM Inspector, and happened to notice a large red bit
over Sittingbourne [1], on closer inspection, there seems to loads of good
data for Sittingbourne in OSM. However in my opinion, its not presented
(tagged, ...) in the best way. 

The three issues that I have seen are:
 - landuse=residential building=yes tags on the buildings
   - in most cases this should just be building=house
 - building footprints are too big and often cover many houses
   - just need spiting up, one house, one building way
 - addr data separate from the building outlines
   - merge data per [3]

So, if anyone is having problems finding places to map... Also, if anyone
disagrees with the above assessment, please shout. I have already done a bit
of improvement here [2].

1: http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=addresses
http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=addresseslon=0.73599lat=51.34400zoo
m=14overlays=buildings,buildings_with_addresses,postal_code,nodes_with_addr
esses_defined,nodes_with_addresses_interpolated,no_addr_street,street_not_fo
und,interpolation,interpolation_errors,connection_lines,nearest_points,neare
st_roads
lon=0.73599lat=51.34400zoom=14overlays=buildings,buildings_with_addresse
s,postal_code,nodes_with_addresses_defined,nodes_with_addresses_interpolated
,no_addr_street,street_not_found,interpolation,interpolation_errors,connecti
on_lines,nearest_points,nearest_roads
2: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.335704
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.335704lon=0.73662zoom=18layers=M
lon=0.73662zoom=18layers=M
3: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/One_feature,_one_OSM_element

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Re: [Talk-GB] DfT Cycling data - cycle lanes

[Gregory Williams]

Richard,

 

It looks good and useful. On the OSM side of things it looks like you've
missed handling cycleway=opposite_lane, since a place where I had that in
the data wasn't being rendered. I have since changed this to be
cycleway:right=opposite_lane though to be more accurate.

 

Cheers,

 

Gregory

 

From: Richard Mann [mailto:richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 09 October 2012 16:15
To: talk-gb OSM List (E-mail)
Subject: [Talk-GB] DfT Cycling data - cycle lanes

 

As you may recall, DfT has made available a lot of cycle facility data. This
was processed and snapped to OSM geometry, and has been available for some
months for importing (subject to local review) using the Snapshot tool.
Further details here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/England_Cycling_Data_project

 

I've reconciled the data for my area, but I found it a bit hard going.
Progress in other areas has been variable.

 

I'm particularly interested in cycle lane data, so I've produced a rendering
that compares DfT (Red) with OSM (Blue) data. Note that the DfT data is not
clear which side of the road cycle lanes are on. 

http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/dftcyclelanes/

 

Quite a lot still missing.

 

So I've also generated tiles of the DfT cycle lane data (down to z17), for
use as a background in editors. In Potlatch, you can create a new background
by clicking on the Background drop-down, then Edit, then Add. The URL for
the tiles is:

http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/dftcyclelanes/tilesDfT/$z/$x/$y.png

 

If any of you care to add cycle lanes in your area, that'd be most welcome.
It will also be interesting to see whether providing a background proves to
be an effective way of getting data reviewed and into OSM. If it's
successful, a similar approach can be used for other parts of the data.

 

Feedback welcome.

 

Richard

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Re: [Talk-GB] DfT Cycling data - cycle lanes

[Gregory Williams]

I've seen contraflow cycle lanes on the left and the right side of the road
in the UK, so thought I ought to just clarify the tagging - better to be
explicit rather than ambiguous.

 

From: Shaun McDonald [mailto:sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk] 
Sent: 09 October 2012 17:35
To: Gregory Williams
Cc: 'Richard Mann'; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] DfT Cycling data - cycle lanes

 

Gregory,

 

I thought that cycleway=opposite_lane was the equivalent of
cycleway:right=lane.

 

And if it was a lane only on the left then it would be cycleway:left=lane.

 

Shaun

 

On 9 Oct 2012, at 17:28, Gregory Williams greg...@gregorywilliams.me.uk
wrote:





Richard,

 

It looks good and useful. On the OSM side of things it looks like you've
missed handling cycleway=opposite_lane, since a place where I had that in
the data wasn't being rendered. I have since changed this to be
cycleway:right=opposite_lane though to be more accurate.

 

Cheers,

 

Gregory

 

From: Richard Mann [mailto:richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 09 October 2012 16:15
To: talk-gb OSM List (E-mail)
Subject: [Talk-GB] DfT Cycling data - cycle lanes

 

As you may recall, DfT has made available a lot of cycle facility data. This
was processed and snapped to OSM geometry, and has been available for some
months for importing (subject to local review) using the Snapshot tool.
Further details here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/England_Cycling_Data_project
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/England_Cycling_Data_project

 

I've reconciled the data for my area, but I found it a bit hard going.
Progress in other areas has been variable.

 

I'm particularly interested in cycle lane data, so I've produced a rendering
that compares DfT (Red) with OSM (Blue) data. Note that the DfT data is not
clear which side of the road cycle lanes are on.

 http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/dftcyclelanes/
http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/dftcyclelanes/

 

Quite a lot still missing.

 

So I've also generated tiles of the DfT cycle lane data (down to z17), for
use as a background in editors. In Potlatch, you can create a new background
by clicking on the Background drop-down, then Edit, then Add. The URL for
the tiles is:

 http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/dftcyclelanes/tilesDfT/$z/$x/$y.png
http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/dftcyclelanes/tilesDfT/$z/$x/$y.png

 

If any of you care to add cycle lanes in your area, that'd be most welcome.
It will also be interesting to see whether providing a background proves to
be an effective way of getting data reviewed and into OSM. If it's
successful, a similar approach can be used for other parts of the data.

 

Feedback welcome.

 

Richard

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Re: [Talk-GB] maxspeed changes

[Gregory Williams]

From: petermille...@gmail.com [mailto:petermille...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
Peter Miller
Sent: 20 September 2012 17:23
To: Gregory Williams
Cc: Chris Hill; Talk GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] maxspeed changes

On 20 September 2012 16:59, Gregory Williams
greg...@gregorywilliams.me.uk wrote:
 -Original Message-
 From: Chris Hill [mailto:o...@raggedred.net]
 Sent: 20 September 2012 16:27
 To: Talk GB
 Subject: [Talk-GB] maxspeed changes

 It seems that PeterITO is once again making changes to speed limits,
this time
 changing limits that are tagged maxspeed=national to
 maxspeed=60 mph. The signs I see ( the round white sign with the black
 diagonal bar) does not say 60 mph it says national speed limit.
 Therefore I believe PeterITO is wrong to make the changes. Furthermore,
he
 seems to making them over a wide area which makes it an undiscussed mass
 edits and should probably be reverted as such.

 PeterITO, please explain what you are doing.
Presumably Peter is also adding source:maxspeed=UK:nsl_single, therefore
preserving the fact that the maxspeed data represents the national speed
limit at that point, rather than being explicitly signed as 60 mph?
Certainly that's how I tag national speed limits on single carriageways
here
in Kent.

 Correct. I did however use alternative maxspeed:type at times which also
 appears in the DB and which I feel is better than source:maxspeed which to
 my mind should be used for  'source:maxspeed=survey' or
 'source:maxspeed=local authority spreadsheet-Dec12' or similar.
 However... lets leave that discussion to another day but either way not
 information has been lost by my edits and the data has been made more
 consistent.

That seems logical enough reasoning to me. I've just fallen into using the
source:maxspeed pattern really, but could quite easily use maxspeed:type
instead.

 Fyi, I changed one instance of 'maxspeed=30 mph;30mph' in Kent to
 'maxspeed=30 mph' and left the instance of 'maxspeed=12 mph' alone
 (even though it does seem a bit unlikely).

Yep, I guess I or someone else merged two road sections together and just
didn't
notice the subtle difference in the tags. I used to use the 30mph form but
now use
30 mph, so it's fairly easy for this to have accidentally happened here in
East Kent.

I know where the maxspeed=12 mph is (at least I guess we're talking about
the
same instance :) ). It's a private estate on the edge of Whitstable and
really does
have that unusual speed limit.

 Re ITO Map, we have recently enabled 'clicks' on many of them. Click on
any
 coloured elements on the speed limit fixup map to see what the tagging
 currently shows. Many other maps also now support clicks.

That could be useful sometimes. Thanks.

 Finally. Be aware that we are still in the process of updating ITO Map
following
 the license change. If it is not updated tonight it should hopefully do so
tomorrow.
 It should then update daily. As such the speed limit fixup map still shows
the
 state of OSM before I made any changes.

I thought that'd be the case. You've got much more processing to handle than
when
I switched over my cycle parking heat map over to data post the license
change, so I'm
not surprised that it's taking several days. I look forward to seeing the
updates in all of
the ITO products for OSM. I use them frequently, and have even used them to
help
make my case when writing planning representations :-)

Gregory


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Re: [OSM-talk] ODbL-Planet

[Gregory Williams]

A further mirror is available here:

http://www.spokeseastkent.org.uk/downloads/planet-120912.osm.bz2

Gregory

 -Original Message-
 From: Martijn van Exel [mailto:m...@rtijn.org]
 Sent: 14 September 2012 18:42
 To: Roland Olbricht
 Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] ODbL-Planet
 
 Note that the PBF planet is still being copied / generated.
 
 Martijn
 
 On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Roland Olbricht roland.olbri...@gmx.de
 wrote:
  The page 'http://planet.openstreetmap.org/' still says planet
  created 2
 
  weeks ago. Is it The new planet?
 
 
 
  Yes it is. It is a copy of
 
  http://planet.openstreetmap.org/planet/2012/planet-120912.osm.bz2
 
 
 
  Cheers,
 
 
 
  Roland
 
 
 
 
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 --
 martijn van exel
 http://oegeo.wordpress.com
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Temporary road closures

[Gregory Williams]

I usually add an item on OpenStreetBugs or a fixme tag to make sure that
there's something reminding us that we need to eventually revert the change.
If the duration of the temporary closure is clear then I also include in the
note the date that it's likely to need to be reverted, to avoid unnecessary
repeated checking of the state ahead of that time.

Gregory

-Original Message-
From: J.Woollacott [mailto:wool...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: 12 July 2012 17:46
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Temporary road closures

The challenge is to remember to remove the restriction at the end of the
event.

Always add a note as well explaining what's in place so somebody else
understands and doesn't 'fix it'

Jason W (UniEagle)

-Original Message-
From: Lester Caine
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:29 PM
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org  'talk-gb OSM List'
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Temporary road closures

Kev js1982 wrote:
 I've only bothered on really long term ones , the most glaring example 
 being in preston where it was in place for 24 months at least; our 
 where the road will reopen on a new alignment - e.g. A46 Newark to 
 Widmerpool

The main bridge in Evesham is due to close for many months and I certainly
think it's worth tagging when it happens as the alternative routes are
miles!

--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve -
http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop -
http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk



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Re: [Talk-GB] Temporary road closures

[Gregory Williams]

Some routing services, such as CycleStreets, update quite a bit more
frequently. Usually every day or two. So I think it's useful to make the
changes to benefit them so long as you've made reasonable effort to make it
clear that it'll need to be undone at some point.

Gregory

-Original Message-
From: Philip Barnes [mailto:p...@trigpoint.me.uk] 
Sent: 12 July 2012 19:37
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Temporary road closures

On Thu, 2012-07-12 at 17:46 +0100, J.Woollacott wrote:
 The challenge is to remember to remove the restriction at the end of 
 the event.
 
 Always add a note as well explaining what's in place so somebody else 
 understands and doesn't 'fix it'
 
 Jason W (UniEagle)
 
Would it not be better to just let TMS deal with issues such as temporary
closures? I know TMS is not implemented yet, but there has been discussion
of doing so.

A downside is that routing/navigation applications seem to take months to
update the maps that they are using, so by the time the restriction makes it
into these applications it could have gone, and then remain in place in
these applications for months.

I really do feel that we should map what is permanent, otherwise how far do
we go? There has been a 50mph speed limit on the M6 in Birmingham since
April, should we re-tag that too?

Phil


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[Talk-GB] New section of Regional Cycle Route 90 near Brighton to map

[Gregory Williams]

According to this Highways Agency article there's a new section of Regional
Cycle Route 90 waiting to be mapped:

 

http://www.highways.gov.uk/news/pressrelease.aspx?pressreleaseid=424913

 

Are there any mappers in or near Brighton that fancy going out and adding it
to our coverage?

 

I mapped much of our RCR90 coverage there several years ago, but am a bit
tied up at the moment to pop over and map the new section.

 

Gregory

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[Talk-GB] England Cycling data feedback

[Gregory Williams]

I've managed to complete a substantial portion of the merging of the England
Cycling data for the areas that I've put my name down for (Ashford,
Canterbury, and Swale), so I thought I'd provide some feedback on what I've
seen. Once I'm merged with these I hope to do parts of some of the other
areas that I've cycled in several times (and can therefore remember the
detail well); I've already done some merging near my parents, which is in
the Stevenage excerpt.

 

The data is pretty good overall. The merging process has been easy; it's
taken me only a few days to merge in just over 2/3 of the ways from three
pretty large areas. Given the recent CycleStreets announcement showing how
they use many of the extra tags that this new data provides I'm looking
forward to the enhanced routes that it'll be able to find cyclists.

 

Whilst doing the merging I've noticed these things:

-  There's a mistake in the translation of choker traffic calming
measures. The translated data has traffic_calming=choking, but it should be
traffic_calming=choker.

-  It seems that the level of detail that the DfT data contains
about traffic calming measures isn't as fine-grained as ourselves. I've
encountered numerous roads where that translated data has
traffic_calming=cushion, but actually it's really traffic_calming=hump or
traffic_calming=table.

-  The existing traffic calming mapping that I've done here in Kent
is node based, rather than way based. I've done this because it's more
detailed and allows for determination of exactly which traffic calming
measures will be passed on a given journey - some roads have a variety of
different traffic calming measures down their length. Where the DfT data had
a traffic_calming key and I've already got the actual nodes mapped I haven't
copied across the traffic_calming key to the way, since it can be deduced
from the nodes and the presence on the way would just cloud the detail a
bit. I don't know whether CycleStreets uses the values from the nodes yet,
or whether it's just the ways? There are some places where the
traffic_calming tagging in the DfT data has enabled me to find places where
I hadn't managed to map the existing traffic calming measures for some
reason. So it's helped to increase our coverage too.

-  Some pedestrianised areas that I dealt with in Canterbury city
centre had some obscure tags in the DfT data, e.g. step_count=asphalt,
depth=yes, cycleway=yes. I obviously haven't copied the bits across that
weren't right, and it's pretty easy to spot them.

-  The DfT's translation hasn't taken into consideration the
distinction between cyclists being prohibited from using a highway (e.g.
some trunk roads) - i.e. bicycle=no, and where cyclists simply need to
dismount (e.g. the majority of footpaths) - i.e. bicycle=dismount, which
would be implied from a highway=footway, for example. So be careful to only
copy across bicycle=no when cyclists can't even walk their cycles there
(which is thankfully quite rare).

-  As has been mentioned before, the casing of cycleway:left=lane
and cycleway:right=lane wasn't translated correctly. Since these are pretty
obvious cases I did some mass translation of the cycleway:left=Lane and
cycleway:right=Lane to their lower case counterparts yesterday. Hopefully
I'll do that again to clear away any future merging issues. That should help
until Andy manages to get the case updated in the snapshots currently being
served.

-  Whilst largely fine, the lit key values seem to have a few
mistakes in rural areas. I wonder whether some of them have simply been
computed by looking at the proximity of the way to lighting column positions
in local highways / DfT data. Certainly I note that in some rural locations
where the street lighting cohabits a pole with telecoms cables etc. the DfT
data seems to say lit=no, where it should say lit=yes. I guess that's
because these poles aren't full lighting columns and so aren't stored as
such in the local highways databases. Just a guess though.

-  In some places the surface tagging in the DfT data hasn't always
been completely accurate. Whilst it doesn't make much difference to cycle
routing there are a few places where the DfT data says surface=asphalt where
it should actually say surface=concrete. Other places which do potentially
affect routing are DfT data instances where it says surface=dirt but
surface=compacted would be more accurate.

-  The level of detail in the DfT data varies; not all relevant keys
have been captured in all places. So it'd be good to have some renderings of
the maps looking for holes in the full coverage. I wonder whether ITO may be
able to help with this? Here are some examples of maps that could be useful
for helping us reach a more full coverage:

o   highway=cycleway without segregated tag

o   highway=cycleway or highway=footway without either of the est_width or
width tags

o   Places where we have est_width, 

[Talk-GB] Portsmouth cycle paths and routes

[Gregory Williams]

I'm primarily a cyclist and interested in ensuring that our cycle coverage
is great. Whilst looking at the Bing! aerial imagery in Portsmouth recently
I spotted some cycleways and cycle lanes which we don't have in our map.
They looked like they were in fairly established areas of the city so I
wonder whether there's any other cycling facilities that we're missing?
Portsmouth is a little far for me to go on a GPS mapping expedition, so I
was wondering if there are any more local cycle mappers that may be
interested in scouting out facilities. It seems that we've probably missed
quite a bit of cycle parking in Gosport too, given its density in
Portsmouth, but seeming absence in Gosport:

 

http://www.spokeseastkent.org.uk/maps/cycle-parking-heat-map/?zoom=13
http://www.spokeseastkent.org.uk/maps/cycle-parking-heat-map/?zoom=13lat=5
0.80969lon=-1.10888layers=BT lat=50.80969lon=-1.10888layers=BT

 

Gregory

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Re: [Talk-GB] Portsmouth cycle paths and routes

[Gregory Williams]

The 20mph tagging seems pretty much in place for Portsmouth:

 

http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=5
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=5lat=50.83306631256
292lon=-1.0753752838074735zoom=12
lat=50.83306631256292lon=-1.0753752838074735zoom=12

 

I don't know whether the 20mph blanket extended over to Gosport as well,
which is pretty much absent of any maxspeed tagging.

 

From: Richard Mann [mailto:richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 23 September 2011 10:47
To: Gregory Williams
Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Portsmouth cycle paths and routes

 

Last time I looked, there was a complete absence of 20mph tagging, as well.

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Gregory Williams
gregory.willi...@purplegeodesoftware.co.uk wrote:

I'm primarily a cyclist and interested in ensuring that our cycle coverage
is great. Whilst looking at the Bing! aerial imagery in Portsmouth recently
I spotted some cycleways and cycle lanes which we don't have in our map.
They looked like they were in fairly established areas of the city so I
wonder whether there's any other cycling facilities that we're missing?
Portsmouth is a little far for me to go on a GPS mapping expedition, so I
was wondering if there are any more local cycle mappers that may be
interested in scouting out facilities. It seems that we've probably missed
quite a bit of cycle parking in Gosport too, given its density in
Portsmouth, but seeming absence in Gosport:

 

http://www.spokeseastkent.org.uk/maps/cycle-parking-heat-map/?zoom=13
http://www.spokeseastkent.org.uk/maps/cycle-parking-heat-map/?zoom=13lat=5
0.80969lon=-1.10888layers=BT lat=50.80969lon=-1.10888layers=BT

 

Gregory


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Re: [Talk-GB] Portsmouth cycle paths and routes

[Gregory Williams]

Indeed. It looks like it's mainly the university sites and arterial roads.
Does your main shopping area pretty much coincide with Oxford Uni's main
colleges? University of Kent in Canterbury and the city centre are separate
and you can see that there are lots of stands serving both:

 

http://www.spokeseastkent.org.uk/maps/cycle-parking-heat-map/?zoom=13
http://www.spokeseastkent.org.uk/maps/cycle-parking-heat-map/?zoom=13lat=5
1.27838lon=1.07101layers=BT lat=51.27838lon=1.07101layers=BT

 

PS I wonder whether the stands at Oxford Brookes Uni don't have any capacity
tags. They don't glow anywhere near as much on the map.

 

 

From: Richard Mann [mailto:richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 23 September 2011 10:52
To: Gregory Williams
Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Portsmouth cycle paths and routes

 

Looks like there's only partial coverage in Oxford as well...

 

http://www.spokeseastkent.org.uk/maps/cycle-parking-heat-map/?zoom=13
http://www.spokeseastkent.org.uk/maps/cycle-parking-heat-map/?zoom=13lat=5
1.75754lon=-1.2523layers=BT lat=51.75754lon=-1.2523layers=BT

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Gregory Williams
gregory.willi...@purplegeodesoftware.co.uk wrote:

I'm primarily a cyclist and interested in ensuring that our cycle coverage
is great. Whilst looking at the Bing! aerial imagery in Portsmouth recently
I spotted some cycleways and cycle lanes which we don't have in our map.
They looked like they were in fairly established areas of the city so I
wonder whether there's any other cycling facilities that we're missing?
Portsmouth is a little far for me to go on a GPS mapping expedition, so I
was wondering if there are any more local cycle mappers that may be
interested in scouting out facilities. It seems that we've probably missed
quite a bit of cycle parking in Gosport too, given its density in
Portsmouth, but seeming absence in Gosport:

 

http://www.spokeseastkent.org.uk/maps/cycle-parking-heat-map/?zoom=13
http://www.spokeseastkent.org.uk/maps/cycle-parking-heat-map/?zoom=13lat=5
0.80969lon=-1.10888layers=BT lat=50.80969lon=-1.10888layers=BT

 

Gregory


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Re: [Talk-GB] Road route relations in the UK

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: SomeoneElse [mailto:li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk]
 Sent: 2 June 2011 00:56
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [Talk-GB] Road route relations in the UK
 
 When looking at a bit of the A1:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/34158443
 I happened to notice that it seems to belong to 6 route relations.
 
 There's a bus route, an E road (both of which make sense) and 4 A1s
 (which don't), one of which (103597) seems to have a lot more versions
 than the others.
 
 I have two questions:
 
 1) Why the need for 4 A1 route relations?

I haven't checked, but perhaps the number of members exceeds the limit for a
single relation (2000 members IIRC). Certainly that's why National Cycle
Route 1 is split across four separate relations. The A1 is a pretty lengthy
route and I can imagine that with all of the bridges along it it'll need
quite a few ways, especially when you consider that much of it is dual
carriageway.

Gregory


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Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Open Data, KCC

[Gregory Williams]

Looking at the school data I see that it's not completely up-to-date. I note
that one school shows the previous head's name (the current head has been in
place for a couple of years) and doesn't reflect that it's recently become
an academy. This despite the fact that it's noted that it was last modified
yesterday.

 

So, based upon this admittedly isolated case, we shouldn't assume that all
of the data is current - we might have more up-to-date data than KCC.

 

From: TimSC [mailto:mapp...@sheerman-chase.org.uk] 
Sent: 23 May 2011 18:32
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Cc: noel.hat...@kent.gov.uk
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Open Data, KCC

 


I have been informed that the beta OpenKent site, with more data and
visualisation tools is here:

http://www.openkent.org.uk/

Some things that caught my eye: lists of librarys, GPs, opticians, pharmacy,
KCC offices, medway car parks, schools. This would be good for validation,
as I said. 

As well as what has already been mentioned (speed limits, etc), we could
also do with lists of post offices, alchohol licensed buildings, sure starts
(kindergartens), petrol stations (or petrol storage), public telephones*,
taxi ranks*, dentists*, arts centres, public art, law courts, crematoria,
fire stations, police stations, council grave yards*, markets*, prisons,
recycling points, public toilets, places of worship*, parks, landfills,
allotments, sports centres, tourist information offices, museums, highway
maintenance depots, quarries, planning permissions, amusements, auction
licenses, animal boardings, pet shops, tattoo shops, sex establishments,
horse riding establishments, gambling locations, zoos, trees (apparently the
highway authority has a tree database), park parks (including outside
medway), highway renaming, new highway designations, changes to rights of
way, all business premises  did I miss anything?! If that is too much,
we can prioritise our request to the council. We might start by asking for
data that no one else has on their map and that is hard to comprehensively
survey without their information. (Remember, I am not proposing to import
anything yet, just to check against what the council has.) Hackey council
has a list of many things they license, on the web [1], which is good for
ideas.

* that is if the council holds the data.

If people can think of more data sets, we can put together a doodle poll to
find the most wanted and to provide some justification (i.e. public demand)
for us requesting the data.

Btw, I found the parish data I was looking for in OS OpenData, so no need to
pester the council for that.

TimSC

[1] http://www.hackney.gov.uk/licensing.htm

On 23/05/11 16:10, Gregory Williams wrote: 

I've seen excerpts of that data in reports presented to the various Joint
Transport Board meetings, so yes they have it.

 

Gregory

 

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Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Open Data, KCC

[Gregory Williams]

I've seen excerpts of that data in reports presented to the various Joint
Transport Board meetings, so yes they have it.

 

Gregory

 

From: Steve Doerr [mailto:doerr.step...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 23 May 2011 14:57
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Open Data, KCC

 

I wonder if they would have data relating to on-street-parking restrictions?

Steve


On 23/05/2011 14:53, Gregory Williams wrote: 

Not strictly an OSM thing, but I'd also like to see traffic count data
released by KCC too.

 

Gregory

 

From: Gregory Williams [mailto:gregory.willi...@purplegeodesoftware.co.uk] 
Sent: 23 May 2011 10:56
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Open Data, KCC

 

Based upon previous discussions with KCC with my cycle campaigning hat on
the cycle parking data that KCC hold is far from exhaustive. Also it's of
the form outside shop xyz, Some Road, Some Place. So, apart from giving us
clues of places to go out and look for cycle parking we haven't mapped yet,
it's not terribly useful. Luckily, as far as things go, I think I've mapped
pretty much all of the cycle parking in East Kent and quite a bit elsewhere
in the county, as is shown on the cycle parking heat map I maintain:

 

http://www.spokeseastkent.org.uk/maps/cycle-parking-heat-map/?zoom=10
http://www.spokeseastkent.org.uk/maps/cycle-parking-heat-map/?zoom=10lat=5
1.14048lon=0.63703layers=BT lat=51.14048lon=0.63703layers=BT

 

I would be very interested in whether KCC are able to release data about
maximum speed limits and traffic calming measures in a form that OSM is able
to use. My personal preference would be to use this as something to compare
against, such that we can assess where our own data isn't complete, rather
than as something that would be imported.

 

Gregory

 

From: Tom Chance [mailto:t...@acrewoods.net] 
Sent: 22 May 2011 11:28
To: TimSC
Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Open Data, KCC

 

Tim,

 

You might like to ask them to provide you with a list of geodata they hold
and that they can release (under the PSMA) without any restrictions. I got
such a list off Southwark Council and it gave me a few ideas of data that
would be useful including trees and cycle parking stands.

 

Tom

 

 

On 22 May 2011 11:11, TimSC mapp...@sheerman-chase.org.uk wrote:


Hi all,

I met people from Kent's OpenKent, which is a county council open data
initiative [1][2]. They explained their work and I told them about
openstreetmap and its community. They said Kent is not as well developed in
open data as some councils but they have a long term commitment to
improvement. They have some data sets available but they seem to be mainly
concerned with expenses, census data and school expenditure so far. They
said they are seeking ideas of what data to publish because they need to
prioritize their effort in getting the data for which there is a public
demand. If you have ideas, I suggest you get in touch. I expect other
councils have already done stuff that's interesting and it might be worth
making them aware. They also plan to showcase interesting data
visualisations based on their data or any Kent related data. It might be
good to get publicity for small projects. OpenKent is also seeking ideas and
feedback for a (web based?) data visualisation tool they are planning to
help the (non-technical) public use the data.

I tried to think of data that would be useful to mappers. Obviously the
rights of way data would be amazing. The council also holds the parish
boundaries data. Some government data sets use parish and electoral
boundaries as their areas, so that would be useful to do visualisations.
Also the Kent Heritage Tree Project [3] might like the parish boundaries, as
apparently many old trees are on or near these boundaries. Having lists of
public institutions, possibly with addresses, would be great to validate the
OSM database. We can quickly find any schools, public services that we
missed. I suspect we will avoid doing imports of data which is not really
GIS but we might add data to OSM to make visualisations and mash ups easier
(machine tags and data to link to their database rows).

Again, they said they would appreciate any ideas. I talked to Noel Hatch and
Matthew Kerr. Get in touch with them. :)

Regards,

TimSC

[1] http://www.kent.gov.uk/your_council/open_data.aspx
[2] http://openkent.blogspot.com/
[3] http://kentheritagetrees.btcv.org.uk/


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-- 
http://tom.acrewoods.net   http://twitter.com/tom_chance

 
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] User Stats over 400 000

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: Sam Vekemans [mailto:acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com]
 Sent: 13 May 2011 09:32
 To: Bob Kerr
 Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] User Stats over 400 000
 
 Is anyone taking a stap-shot, of month-over-month comparison of this
 data?
 Thanks,
 Sam
 
 On 5/13/11, Bob Kerr openstreetmapcraigmil...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
  See
 
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/stats/data_stats.html
 
 
  Cheers
 
  Bob

Sam,

See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats

Cheers,

Gregory


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Re: [Talk-GB] new ITO Map service in beta

[Gregory Williams]

Peter,

 

A great service. It'll certainly help me with keeping track of where extra
details still need to be mapped.

 

I've noticed these small issues:

-   Ferry routes appear to be highlighted in red on the Water layer, but
this doesn't match anything in the key.
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=3
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=3bbox=100067.247138
86814,6641995.275980514,184201.48415728885,6686900.195601286layers=base_st
yle=clear_map_history=true
bbox=100067.24713886814,6641995.275980514,184201.48415728885,6686900.195601
286layers=base_style=clear_map_history=true

-   At zoom level 3 on the Water layer it appears to load overlay tiles
for that layer, but also displays the You need to zoom in further to view
the overlay layer warning.
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=3
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=3bbox=58000.1299815
7775,6619542.830379137,226268.60401842726,6709352.669620863layers=base_sty
le=clear_map_history=true
bbox=58000.12998157775,6619542.830379137,226268.60401842726,6709352.6696208
63layers=base_style=clear_map_history=true

-   Schools with names are incorrectly bordered with red (as Steve Doerr
has also just pointed out):
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=6
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=6bbox=119108.430780
305,754.055789617,124366.820593955,6669560.613265983layers=base_style=
clear_map_history=true
bbox=119108.430780305,754.055789617,124366.820593955,6669560.613265983
layers=base_style=clear_map_history=true

 

A layer showing lighting would also be very useful. I realise that there's a
similar layer on the Wikimedia Toolserver, but it doesn't seem to get
updated:

 

http://toolserver.org/~osm/styles/?layers=B000F0TFF0FFF
http://toolserver.org/~osm/styles/?layers=B000F0TFF0FFFzoom=13lat
=51.28253lon=1.08301 zoom=13lat=51.28253lon=1.08301

 

Cheers,

 

Gregory

 

From: Peter Miller [mailto:peter.mil...@itoworld.com] 
Sent: 18 March 2011 14:13
To: Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-GB] new ITO Map service in beta

 

ITO are pleased to announce a set of new 'overlay maps' for OpenStreetMap
which can highlights some of the data layers, such as speed limits, highway
lane widths, whether rivers are navigable and if buildings have addresses
etc.

The service is still very much in beta and may suffer if many people jump on
it at the same time but lets see what happens.

The service is available here:
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main

And a wiki description is available here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ITO_Map

We are starting with a service for a bounding box that included the UK and
northern France, Holland, a bit of Germany and up to southern Norway and a
separate bounding box including the bay area, SF. The tiles will always be
based current daily diff planet data (with a 24 hour processing lag). We
should never serve old tiles from old data. If the service is noticeably
slow then please give it a break for a hour and then try again.

We will roll out the service to more areas as the system beds in and then
globally over the next few weeks assuming that the servers hold up.

We will gather feedback over the next week or so and then many some changes
to the service to iron out any wrinkles.



Regards,


Peter Miller
ITO World Ltd

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Re: [Talk-GB] new ITO Map service in beta

[Gregory Williams]

Peter,

 

Is it intentional that highway=unclassified and highway=residential don't
seem to fall under other when they haven't got a maxspeed tag applied? For
example:

 

http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=5
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=5bbox=129803.642408
365,6685618.390976917,135062.03015,6688424.948453283layers=base_style=
clear_map_history=true
bbox=129803.642408365,6685618.390976917,135062.03015,6688424.948453283
layers=base_style=clear_map_history=true

 

Brook Lane and Barnes Way don't have lines on top and don't have maxspeed
applied either.

 

Cheers,

 

Gregory

 

From: Gregory Williams [mailto:gregory.willi...@purplegeodesoftware.co.uk] 
Sent: 18 March 2011 15:15
To: 'Peter Miller'; 'Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org'
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] new ITO Map service in beta

 

Peter,

 

A great service. It'll certainly help me with keeping track of where extra
details still need to be mapped.

 

I've noticed these small issues:

-   Ferry routes appear to be highlighted in red on the Water layer, but
this doesn't match anything in the key.
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=3
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=3bbox=100067.247138
86814,6641995.275980514,184201.48415728885,6686900.195601286layers=base_st
yle=clear_map_history=true
bbox=100067.24713886814,6641995.275980514,184201.48415728885,6686900.195601
286layers=base_style=clear_map_history=true

-   At zoom level 3 on the Water layer it appears to load overlay tiles
for that layer, but also displays the You need to zoom in further to view
the overlay layer warning.
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=3
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=3bbox=58000.1299815
7775,6619542.830379137,226268.60401842726,6709352.669620863layers=base_sty
le=clear_map_history=true
bbox=58000.12998157775,6619542.830379137,226268.60401842726,6709352.6696208
63layers=base_style=clear_map_history=true

-   Schools with names are incorrectly bordered with red (as Steve Doerr
has also just pointed out):
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=6
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=6bbox=119108.430780
305,754.055789617,124366.820593955,6669560.613265983layers=base_style=
clear_map_history=true
bbox=119108.430780305,754.055789617,124366.820593955,6669560.613265983
layers=base_style=clear_map_history=true

 

A layer showing lighting would also be very useful. I realise that there's a
similar layer on the Wikimedia Toolserver, but it doesn't seem to get
updated:

 

http://toolserver.org/~osm/styles/?layers=B000F0TFF0FFF
http://toolserver.org/~osm/styles/?layers=B000F0TFF0FFFzoom=13lat
=51.28253lon=1.08301 zoom=13lat=51.28253lon=1.08301

 

Cheers,

 

Gregory

 

From: Peter Miller [mailto:peter.mil...@itoworld.com] 
Sent: 18 March 2011 14:13
To: Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-GB] new ITO Map service in beta

 

ITO are pleased to announce a set of new 'overlay maps' for OpenStreetMap
which can highlights some of the data layers, such as speed limits, highway
lane widths, whether rivers are navigable and if buildings have addresses
etc.

The service is still very much in beta and may suffer if many people jump on
it at the same time but lets see what happens.

The service is available here:
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main

And a wiki description is available here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ITO_Map

We are starting with a service for a bounding box that included the UK and
northern France, Holland, a bit of Germany and up to southern Norway and a
separate bounding box including the bay area, SF. The tiles will always be
based current daily diff planet data (with a 24 hour processing lag). We
should never serve old tiles from old data. If the service is noticeably
slow then please give it a break for a hour and then try again.

We will roll out the service to more areas as the system beds in and then
globally over the next few weeks assuming that the servers hold up.

We will gather feedback over the next week or so and then many some changes
to the service to iron out any wrinkles.



Regards,


Peter Miller
ITO World Ltd

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Re: [Talk-GB] new ITO Map service in beta

[Gregory Williams]

OK, ignore that. It's been pointed out to me that the wiki says tertiary
upwards.

 

From: Gregory Williams [mailto:gregory.willi...@purplegeodesoftware.co.uk] 
Sent: 18 March 2011 15:29
To: 'Peter Miller'; 'Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org'
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] new ITO Map service in beta

 

Peter,

 

Is it intentional that highway=unclassified and highway=residential don't
seem to fall under other when they haven't got a maxspeed tag applied? For
example:

 

http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=5
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=5bbox=129803.642408
365,6685618.390976917,135062.03015,6688424.948453283layers=base_style=
clear_map_history=true
bbox=129803.642408365,6685618.390976917,135062.03015,6688424.948453283
layers=base_style=clear_map_history=true

 

Brook Lane and Barnes Way don't have lines on top and don't have maxspeed
applied either.

 

Cheers,

 

Gregory

 

From: Gregory Williams [mailto:gregory.willi...@purplegeodesoftware.co.uk] 
Sent: 18 March 2011 15:15
To: 'Peter Miller'; 'Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org'
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] new ITO Map service in beta

 

Peter,

 

A great service. It'll certainly help me with keeping track of where extra
details still need to be mapped.

 

I've noticed these small issues:

-   Ferry routes appear to be highlighted in red on the Water layer, but
this doesn't match anything in the key.
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=3
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=3bbox=100067.247138
86814,6641995.275980514,184201.48415728885,6686900.195601286layers=base_st
yle=clear_map_history=true
bbox=100067.24713886814,6641995.275980514,184201.48415728885,6686900.195601
286layers=base_style=clear_map_history=true

-   At zoom level 3 on the Water layer it appears to load overlay tiles
for that layer, but also displays the You need to zoom in further to view
the overlay layer warning.
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=3
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=3bbox=58000.1299815
7775,6619542.830379137,226268.60401842726,6709352.669620863layers=base_sty
le=clear_map_history=true
bbox=58000.12998157775,6619542.830379137,226268.60401842726,6709352.6696208
63layers=base_style=clear_map_history=true

-   Schools with names are incorrectly bordered with red (as Steve Doerr
has also just pointed out):
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=6
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=6bbox=119108.430780
305,754.055789617,124366.820593955,6669560.613265983layers=base_style=
clear_map_history=true
bbox=119108.430780305,754.055789617,124366.820593955,6669560.613265983
layers=base_style=clear_map_history=true

 

A layer showing lighting would also be very useful. I realise that there's a
similar layer on the Wikimedia Toolserver, but it doesn't seem to get
updated:

 

http://toolserver.org/~osm/styles/?layers=B000F0TFF0FFF
http://toolserver.org/~osm/styles/?layers=B000F0TFF0FFFzoom=13lat
=51.28253lon=1.08301 zoom=13lat=51.28253lon=1.08301

 

Cheers,

 

Gregory

 

From: Peter Miller [mailto:peter.mil...@itoworld.com] 
Sent: 18 March 2011 14:13
To: Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-GB] new ITO Map service in beta

 

ITO are pleased to announce a set of new 'overlay maps' for OpenStreetMap
which can highlights some of the data layers, such as speed limits, highway
lane widths, whether rivers are navigable and if buildings have addresses
etc.

The service is still very much in beta and may suffer if many people jump on
it at the same time but lets see what happens.

The service is available here:
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main

And a wiki description is available here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ITO_Map

We are starting with a service for a bounding box that included the UK and
northern France, Holland, a bit of Germany and up to southern Norway and a
separate bounding box including the bay area, SF. The tiles will always be
based current daily diff planet data (with a 24 hour processing lag). We
should never serve old tiles from old data. If the service is noticeably
slow then please give it a break for a hour and then try again.

We will roll out the service to more areas as the system beds in and then
globally over the next few weeks assuming that the servers hold up.

We will gather feedback over the next week or so and then many some changes
to the service to iron out any wrinkles.



Regards,


Peter Miller
ITO World Ltd

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Re: [Talk-GB] Visualising speed limits

[Gregory Williams]

I've also found the maxspeed colouring on the graphview JOSM plugin useful
for visualising maxspeed data:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/Graphview

Cheers,

Gregory

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Craig Wallace
 Sent: 30 October 2010 01:40
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Visualising speed limits
 
 On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:22 +0100, thomas van der veen
 th.vanderv...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Has someone actually done something like this already? Or does
 someone
  would
  like to join me and making a custom version of a map renderer that
 can do
  this? should be relative simple, just looking for a couple of tags
 and
  assign a colour accordingly. I have started looking at the Perl SVG
  converter (couldn't get any of the XSLT converter produce proper
 SVG),
  but it is a big beast.
 
 One option:
 Use JOSM, and download the area you are interested in, and use a JOSM
 map style that highlights things with different speed limits in
 different colours
 See for instructions: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Styles
 Note there are separate map styles for default maxspeed (kmh) and mph
 maxspeeds.
 
 I find this is very useful while editing, as you can easily see how
 complete maxspeeds are for an area, and if there's any gaps etc.
 
 Craig
 --
   Craig Wallace
   craig...@fastmail.fm
 
 --
 http://www.fastmail.fm - One of many happy users:
   http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/quotes.html
 
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Visualising speed limits

[Gregory Williams]

Looks great. I think an OpenLayers Permalink anchor would make it even
better.

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Andy Street
 Sent: 1 November 2010 16:39
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Visualising speed limits
 
 On Sat, 2010-10-30 at 01:04 +0100, Andy Street wrote:
  I've produced a similar map for the Hampshire rights of way network
  ( http://hants.openstreetmap.org.uk/ ) so if I get some spare time
 this
  weekend I might have a go at creating a maxspeed version.
 
 Okay, here we go:
 
 http://maxspeed.openstreetmap.org.uk/
 
 Cheers,
 
 Andy
 
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Location of 27,000 street lights in one council area

[Gregory Williams]

I wonder whether it may have been these ones in Norfolk:

 

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4631482

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4631508

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4631551

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4631742

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4632256

 

By the looks of things they've since been removed from OSM.

 

Cheers,

 

Gregory

 

From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org
[mailto:talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Peter Miller
Sent: 12 October 2010 13:40
To: Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-GB] Location of 27,000 street lights in one council area

 

Tom Steinberg from MySociety writes:

I was just talking to someone in a local council about the fact that they'd
opened up the location of 27,000 streetlights in their council area. They
wanted to know if FixMyStreet http://fixmystreet.com/  could incorporate
them so that problem reports could be more accurately attached.
http://www.mysociety.org/2010/10/12/a-wish-list-for-geodata-on-fixmystreet/

Does anyone fancy finding out where this is and organising an import?


Regards,


Peter

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Re: [OSM-talk] Relation history times out

[Gregory Williams]

You could just query the last few revisions manually, like this:

http://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/relation/152791/77

Gregory

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Dave F.
 Sent: 4 October 2010 13:34
 To: OSM Talk
 Subject: [OSM-talk] Relation history times out
 
   Hi
 
 I've a relation whose history I want to view. It's failing on this
 error:
 
 Sorry, the data for the relation with the id 152791, took too long to
 retrieve.
 
 Presumably because we're up to version 78. Is there a way to overcome
 this, say to just view the last few revisions?
 
 Cheers
 Dave F.
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Use of OS OpenData in OSM

[Gregory Williams]

That looks much better now. It's certainly interesting to see that whole
counties, like Norfolk, appear to be sourced from OS OpenData. I know that
that isn't true, but I guess it's a just a side-effect of the last edit to
existing ways adding a source / source:name tag referencing OS, like adding
the name to an existing way. It may be interesting to differentiate between
source and source:name using different colours to get an idea of where it's
only the name that's been added.

 

From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org
[mailto:talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Graham Jones
Sent: 21 July 2010 22:58
To: 80n
Cc: Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Use of OS OpenData in OSM

 

Hi,

 

I have tidied up my OS Opendata Map
(http://www.maps.webhop.net/osm_opendata).

 

The changes are:

*   Lines and dots are smaller so it looks less of a mess.
*   It excludes source tags containing '25k', 'os7' and 'photos', which
were giving quite a lot of false positives, especially in Scotland.  Let me
know if you see any others and I can exclude them.
*   I have left my original layer available as 'tiles1', but this is not
displayed by default - you can add it with the '+' control to see the
differences.
*   The about http://www.maps.webhop.net/osm_opendata/about.html  page
has been updated to describe how it works better (still crude, but more
complicated SQL!).

There are still some surprising things here - for example National Cycle
Route 1 is highlighted, even though I know that the bits I added are not
from OS Opendata (see the bit from Whitby to Sunderland here
http://www.maps.webhop.net/osm_opendata/?zoom=10lat=54.6778lon=-1.37818l
ayers=BFT ).   It seems that someone has tagged the relation (Relation
Number 9579) with 'OS_OpenData_StreetView' - I don't know why they would
have done this? 

 

Regards

 

Graham.

 

On 20 July 2010 23:40, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote:

Thank you all for your comments.
I'll not get into the licence change debate here - plenty of that on
osm-talk

-  I agree that there are a few surprises highlighted here.   There are a
couple of cycle tracks highlighted that I survryed myself, so I will have to
check the underlying data.  When I get home I will improve the filtering to
exclude os 1:25k references.
- I will see what I can do with the rendering as Gregory suggests.
- The supermarkets reference is copy-and-paste-itis on my behalf - sorry!
- Emilie is probably right that strictly I should be interested in history,
but I cant do that easily from a planet extract, and I don't think it will
matter too much with opendata being so recent.   A curious legal point is
that if a way was originally derived from os-opendata, but subsequently
re-surveyed, is it still derived from opendata?

Graham


Graham Jones
(from my phone)

On Jul 20, 2010 4:41 PM, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Robert Whittaker (OSM)
robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com mailto:robert.whittaker%2b...@gmail.com 
wrote:  ...

What's more, because Produced Works can be published under a restrictive
license we couldn't get the additional data back by tracing either.  ODbL +
CT makes getting data back into OSM much harder than it is now by a massive
degree.

BTW, how would a corporation agree to the Contributor Terms anyway?  The
sign-up page only caters for individuals.  Has, for example, CloudMade,
agreed to the contributor terms yet and how could we tell if they had?

80n

 

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-- 
Dr. Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK
email: grahamjones...@gmail.com

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Re: [Talk-GB] A quick question for the cyclists

[Gregory Williams]

Don't worry. There are a number of three-digit national routes appearing
now. That doesn't mean that there are at least 246 national routes. It's
just that the numbers have a little significance in the scheme of things,
like they do with road numbers.

So, in short, it's NCN.

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Andy Street
 Sent: 30 June 2010 15:01
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [Talk-GB] A quick question for the cyclists
 
 I was out and about at the weekend when I came across this[0] sign for
 a
 cycle route and I'm not quite sure how to tag it. I was under the
 impression that national routes had red backgrounds and regional/local
 routes had blue but it seems to be a rather large number for a national
 route.
 
 Can someone please explain to this poor confused pedestrian if this is
 ncn, rcn or lcn and why?
 
 Cheers,
 
 Andy
 
 [0] http://www.andystreet.me.uk/DSC00728.JPG
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] cycle map not updating?

[Gregory Williams]

Updates that I've made in the past week are now showing on zooms = 12. It's
not quite there for zooms  12, but I suspect that that's simply because the
tiles haven't managed to upload to Andy's web host yet from the machine
where he carries out the main rendering.

 

I do remember seeing Andy tweeting recently that there'd been an issue with
updates for a while (during an upgrade IIRC???), so perhaps that may explain
it.

 

I usually notice that changes I've made prior to the Wednesday are reflected
at all zoom levels by the following Friday.

 

From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org]
On Behalf Of Hillsman, Edward
Sent: 24 June 2010 16:19
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [OSM-talk] cycle map not updating?

 

Has the update frequency changed for OpenCycleMap? Some bike lanes added in
late May and early June still haven't appeared yet.

 

Ed Hillsman

Senior Research Associate

Center for Urban Transportation Research

University of South Florida

4202 Fowler Ave., CUT100

Tampa, FL  33620-5375

813-974-2977 (tel)

813-974-5168 (fax)

hills...@cutr.usf.edu

 blocked::http://www.cutr.usf.edu/ http://www.cutr.usf.edu

 

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Re: [OSM-talk] cycle map not updating?

[Gregory Williams]

Ooops. Thanks for correcting my Shaun. Unfortunately I've not had quite so
much time to keep up-to-date on OSM happenings of late.

 

From: Shaun McDonald [mailto:sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk] 
Sent: 24 June 2010 16:55
To: Gregory Williams
Cc: 'Hillsman, Edward'; talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] cycle map not updating?

 

Hi Gregory, 

 

Your a little out of date of the way that the cycle map is run. It uses the
live mapnk rendering, with no upload required. However it is still a weekly
update, and can take a week to fully update assuming that the disk doesn't
fill up first.

 

Shaun

 

On 24 Jun 2010, at 16:40, Gregory Williams wrote:





Updates that I've made in the past week are now showing on zooms = 12. It's
not quite there for zooms  12, but I suspect that that's simply because the
tiles haven't managed to upload to Andy's web host yet from the machine
where he carries out the main rendering.

 

I do remember seeing Andy tweeting recently that there'd been an issue with
updates for a while (during an upgrade IIRC???), so perhaps that may explain
it.

 

I usually notice that changes I've made prior to the Wednesday are reflected
at all zoom levels by the following Friday.

 

From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org]
On Behalf Of Hillsman, Edward
Sent: 24 June 2010 16:19
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [OSM-talk] cycle map not updating?

 

Has the update frequency changed for OpenCycleMap? Some bike lanes added in
late May and early June still haven't appeared yet.

 

Ed Hillsman

Senior Research Associate

Center for Urban Transportation Research

University of South Florida

4202 Fowler Ave., CUT100

Tampa, FL  33620-5375

813-974-2977 (tel)

813-974-5168 (fax)

hills...@cutr.usf.edu

 blocked::http://www.cutr.usf.edu/ http://www.cutr.usf.edu

 

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Re: [Talk-GB] Post code map updated with a Code-Point Open layer

[Gregory Williams]

The Kent / Essex thing is simply an artefact of deriving the areas from
known points. The boundaries shown are in effect we know based upon the
surrounding points that the boundary is approximately here.

I must say that I'm surprised at how well bits of OpenStreetMap's CT and
Code-Point Open's CT tally up. I collected much of CT simply via getting
postbox refs, and now that we've got most of them (83% last time I looked)
they are pretty alike.

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Colin Smale
 Sent: 1 April 2010 14:37
 To: Dave Stubbs
 Cc: Talk GB
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Post code map updated with a Code-Point Open
 layer
 
 Looks really nice, with the colours as well!
 
 Looking at the Thames east of London, the boundary down the river
 between Kent and Essex looks rather suspicious. There seem to be bits
 of
 Essex with a Kent postcode and vice versa. Is this a function of
 clipping to the coastline that you mention? I hope it's not
 representative for the accuracy of the rest of the data...
 
 Colin
 
 On 01/04/2010 15:15, Dave Stubbs wrote:
  Hi,
 
  The Ordnance Survey OpenData released today contains a dataset called
  Code-Point Open giving the coordinates of about 1.5 million
 postcodes.
 
  I've added a layer onto the postcode area map to show this data in
 the
  same way it's been showing NPE, OSM and FreeThePostcode data for some
  time.
 
  Go see it here:
 
  http://random.dev.openstreetmap.org/postcodes/?layers=000F0F0FBT
 
  There's still a few bugs to be worked out:
- only 25% of the original dataset is actually used (generation
  process uses too much RAM on my 32bit machine to do the whole thing)
- not yet clipped to coastline
- sub-codes ie: SW18 1 only show where the prefix is 3 chars
 
  So nothing too serious :-)
 
  Dave
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpath numbering

[Gregory Williams]

I wouldn't take PRoW refs from any source unless I was completely confident
that it's compatible with OSM's license. It sounds like your Chiltern
Society map is an annotated OS map, therefore unsuitable.

 

Unfortunately I think it depends upon where you live as to how well the refs
are put up on signs. In the last few years I've found that my area of Kent
have done pretty well with getting refs displayed.

 

From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org
[mailto:talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Bob Hawkins
Sent: 17 March 2010 08:52
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-GB] Footpath numbering

 

Footpaths and bridleways are numbered on definitive maps but rarely on
signposts or waymarks.  Often numbered on a parish or community basis (HA10,
for example), their use appears to be for legal puposes mainly, rather than
as an aid to navigation.  Having said that, my local Chiltern Society
footpath map is annotated with the definitve numbers.  So, I wonder what OSM
mappers in GB feel about adding the official numbers to such ways.  I
suspect copyright is an issue because the rights of way numbers will
invariably be on maps based upon the Ordnance Survey, unless anyone knows
that they are available from another source. 

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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpath numbering

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Nick Whitelegg
 Sent: 17 March 2010 10:22
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Footpath numbering
 
 I wouldn?t take PRoW refs from any source unless I was completely
 confident that it?s compatible with OSM?s license
 
 Sorry, meant to raise this point in my last reply.
 
 Would any source also include footpath signs with the number on? This
 is
 common practice on the Isle of Wight, and I myself have used these
 signs
 as a source before. These signs would be equivalent to road signs
 showing
 the road number, and will have been erected by the council - so I
 definitely can't see an issue there.

Ah, I did write that a bit ambiguously really I guess. I, and I think
virtually everyone surveying data in OSM, think that getting the refs from
the signs in-situ is perfectly fine. It's just like getting road refs or
street names from signs at the edge of the road.


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Re: [Talk-GB] National Cycle Network - filling the gaps

[Gregory Williams]

I should point out that I've still got some of my data from last summer's
trip to be entered. This includes bits of NCR1, RCR30 in East Anglia, and
NCR13. However, I've been very busy lately hence not really managing to get
the data entered particularly fast.

There could be quite a bit more to do in Wales in the future with all of the
new NCN routes that are currently being proposed there.

Cheers,

Gregory

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Richard Fairhurst
 Sent: 8 March 2010 10:24
 To: talk-gb OSM List (E-mail)
 Subject: [Talk-GB] National Cycle Network - filling the gaps
 
 Hi all,
 
 OSM's National Cycle Network coverage is astounding and one of the
 reasons why everyone loves OpenCycleMap.
 
 With the sun finally emerging once again (yay) we've got the chance to
 fill some of the gaps and make it really useful. Anna and I went out on
 Saturday to map a recently opened section of National Route 45 (south
 of
 Worcester), and it occurred to me that a few afternoons like that would
 complete coverage of several high-profile routes.
 
 So I had a look at the map and have identified a few that could be
 ticked off in an afternoon by nearby mappers. Obviously, some are
 already in hand - Gregory W cycled most of NCN 1 last year, for
 example,
 and I've got a few planned for this year.
 
 == South ==
 
 - *To complete NCN 3*: St Austell to Truro is only partly mapped
 
 - *To complete NCN 4*: Tiny little section in north Bristol (near
 Catbrain!) needs doing
 
 == Midlands ==
 
 - *To complete Great Central Cycle Ride*: missing section through
 Daventry
 
 == Wales ==
 
 - *To complete Lon Teifi*: NCN 82 from Cardigan to Fishguard
 
 == North ==
 
 - *To complete the C2C*: Forest section near Keswick - the one gap in
 our coverage of the NCN's most popular route!
 
 - *To complete the Pennine Cycleway*: NCN 68's alternative route via
 Burnley and the Leeds  Liverpool canal towpath is only partly mapped.
 
 - *The new Way of the Roses*: a coast-to-coast route being launched
 this
 year, roughly Morecambe-Settle-Harrogate-York-Bridlington. East of York
 it's fully mapped. Morecambe to York is not yet fully signed. But it'd
 be great to have it mapped on OSM at launch.
 
 - Hadrian's Cycleway (NCN 72) and the Reivers Route (NCN 10) could be
 completed with a little effort. A few gaps around Sheffield could also
 be completed fairly easily.
 
 
 Any takers? Or any other gaps in big routes that people have spotted?
 
 cheers
 Richard
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Kent County Council Highways Gazetteer

[Gregory Williams]

[Snip]
 
 A couple of questions about C-roads...
 
 Is there a consensus about how these should be treated? Given that they
 are not a 'public-facing' classification (never appear on road signs or
 on any map you would buy from W. H. Smith's), I'm not sure we want the
 standard renderings cluttered up with them, do we? Should we invent a
 tag such as ref:internal (say) for these?
 
No. That would be tagging for the renderer. Even if it's generally a
non-visible ref in the outside world (though I've seen three C-roads leak
onto signs in my travels) I believe that it's the render's choice as to
whether they should show up on the maps, not for us to say that there's
something special about the fact. A fact's a fact.

 Secondly, am I right in thinking that these are not unique references
 like the A- and B-roads? (Unique within the UK, that is.) In other
 words, whereas Wrotham Road near me is 'the A227', nearby Coldharbour
 Road is not 'the C364', it's just one of many C364s, albeit the only
 one
 in Kent? Should this be reflected in the tagging? I see in the States
 they use network=US:[state]:[county] to tag county roads.

I'm not sure whether they're nationally unique references, but they'll be
unique per authority and we've got pretty good bounding areas for those in
OSM now.

Gregory


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Re: [OSM-talk] Measuring success of OSM

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Brendan Morley
 Sent: 12 December 2009 14:03
 To: Talk OSM
 Subject: [OSM-talk] Measuring success of OSM
 
 In the interests of healthy debate,
 
 I disagree with some of the sentiments around imports.  In particular
 that imports reduce the amount of OSM contributors, and that that is a
 Bad Thing.
 
 IMHO success should be measured by the accuracy of the data (to
 reality) and to the pervasiveness of its use by people and corporates.
 What if suddenly
 Ordnance Survey merged all their excrutiating detail of data under OSM
 terms?  Is that a good thing or a bad thing?  I say good, because there
 will always be
 need for tracking of changes.

What makes you think that the OS will track changes better than people on
the ground in the area? As I understand it OS primarily is notified of
changes by local authorities etc. combined with the odd aerial survey. I've
surveyed many a feature near me before they're even officially open, whereas
the same features still haven't appeared in the OS data that I can access.

There are lots of things that OS don't cover too. Cycle parking, the current
occupants of shops, etc. We still need people on the ground to collect and
maintain that data.

If there's largescale importing of data not collected by somebody in OSM
then it's unlikely that somebody is going to feel the same sense of
ownership of it. Also in those areas where the data has essentially
exclusively come from an import instead of our own survey it's less likely
that we'll attract new contributors in the first place. Surveying highways
is much better for getting somebody hooked on OSM that surveying POIs.
Adding highways has an immediately obvious impact. To have the same level of
impact with POIs will need at least an order more work.
 
 Perhaps OSM would turn into a heads up service for government - you
 know, a local would identify a tree planted somewhere around this GPS
 reading and
 then an OS employee would know to come around and get a more accurate
 fix.  I'm only speculating here, I don't know how OS actually detects
 changes to its
 dataset.
 
 If OSM ever reached that level of detail, then it'd be pointless for
 Google to steal our data, they'd always be playing catchup.

I've already pointed out that OSM is richer than OS in some domains.

Oh, and it'd be really easy for Google to have a near-real-time mirror of
OSM's data with updates rendered shortly behind. Lots of people already
replicate from OSM, and we've shown that it only takes extremely modest
hardware in Google's terms to keep up with the rerendering necessary.

Gregory


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Re: [OSM-talk] Cloudmade routing

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Jonas Svensson
 Sent: 1 December 2009 09:08
 To: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [OSM-talk] Cloudmade routing
 
 Is this a bug in cloudmade routing or is there some problem with the
 tagging of our roads in this example?
 
 See
 http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=58.41374lng=15.623503zoom=15directio
 ns=58.41259318415956,15.63929557800293,58.41565019567137,15.62547683715
 8203travel=carstyleId=1opened_tab=1
 The routing has avoided the bridge Tullbron which is a bridge which
 is
 perfectly fine to drive on. I get the same route for both fastest and
 shortest, neighter is probably correct.
 

Well the data for a route via the bridge Tullbron looks fine to me. It
definitely looks like it's related to the bridge itself though. If I move
A to somewhere in the middle of the short way immediately east of the
bridge (4472673) then it still avoids the bridge. If I place both A and
B on the bridge it doesn't resolve to a route. Nor if I straddle A and
B over each end of the bridge. So, my guess is that the bridge isn't in
Cloudmade's underlying routing data for some reason.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Postboxes Payphones

[Gregory Williams]

It's potentially better, but still wrong though. For a start I've come
across several cases of two postboxes with different refs that are located
side-by-side. It's a bit of a lottery whether it'll tie up the correct ref
here. Also, I've seen several instances of bad data in the Dracos set, e.g.
a postbox in the middle of a farmer's field, and another out at sea. Tying
up to a dodgy location in the first place will just result in dodgy data.

Personally I don't want to see the Dracos data imported into OSM either.
We've got plenty of people mapping on the ground now and we only need a
little patience to have mapped all of the boxes directly. As has been
mentioned before, the process of hunting down an elusive postbox often has
the benefit of some other missing feature getting mapped as well, just
because you happen to be in the neighbourhood.

Gregory

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Ed Loach
 Sent: 10 November 2009 08:20
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Postboxes  Payphones
 
 I just noticed a changeset from user elbatrop which although it says
 it was to Tie 10 Royal Mail references to known postboxes, it has
 1709 nodes in the changeset:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3079245
 
 Assuming this is import related, then linking a ref to a previously
 mapped postbox is probably the least likely to cause issues.
 
 Ed
 
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Flickr Now Supports OSM Tags

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Dave F.
 Sent: 28 September 2009 20:47
 Cc: OSM Talk
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Flickr Now Supports OSM Tags
 
 Ian Dees wrote:
 
 http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/flickr_now_supports_openstreetmap_
 tags.php
 
  Good to see someone else talking about OSM...
 
 Excellent news

Indeed this is fantastic news. Having that extra metadata will be very
useful, and it'll start to get OSM seen by a whole new audience that haven't
yet heard about us. Now I've just got to start applying tags to my 3000 odd
Flickr photos. This may take some time...


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Re: [OSM-talk] intent to vandalize

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of John Smith
 Sent: 23 September 2009 07:53
 To: maning sambale
 Cc: osm-talk
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] intent to vandalize
 
 2009/9/23 maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com:
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Fake%20Liam123/diary/8007#comments
 
 That account hasn't made any edits...

Don't worry. In the UK we've had issues with a Liam123 making questionable
edits. This is just somebody else that's set up a separate account Fake
Liam123 (much alike Fake SteveC or Fake RichardF) and is just poking a
bit out of the situation. I'm pretty sure that there's nothing malicious
actually going on.

Gregory


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[Talk-GB] Three Corner Cycle Ride (and OSM mapping)

[Gregory Williams]

All,

 

I just thought I'd let you all know about the charity cycle ride that
I'll be doing this summer in aid of the British Heart Foundation and all
of the associated mapping I'm planning to do for OSM as a result of it.
This Sunday I'm setting off from Canterbury to go via Dover, Land's End,
John O'Groats, and then back to Canterbury - about 3000 miles. I'm
keeping a blog online, which also has a link to my sponsorship page if
you're interested in supporting me:

 

http://www.threecornerscycleride.org.uk/

 

So, on to my planned OSM coverage. I'm using a mixture of the NCN and
other roads where the NCN is inconvenient. I hope to cover these
stretches of the NCN:

 

-   Kent's RCR16 from Canterbury to Dover. Already fully mapped, but
more tracks never do any harm!

-   NCR2 from Dover to Shoreham-by-Sea. Also following the small
sections of NCR2 that exist as far west as Poole.

-   Following the sections of NCR25 that exist from Poole to
Shillingstone. This should improve our NCR25 coverage by several miles.

-   A tiny section of Dorset's RCR41 west of Okeford Fitzpaine,
which I hope there'll be signing evidence for on the ground.

-   A short section of NCR26 between Bradford Abbas and Yeovil,
though we've already got this mapped.

-   NCR27 from near Exbourne to Hatherleigh.

-   NCR3 from Hatherleigh via Bude to Bodmin following braids that
we currently don't have mapped.

-   NCR32 from Bodmin via Padstow and Newquay to Truro. This should
add considerably to our coverage of this route.

-   NCR3 braid south from Truro to Bissoe, which we haven't got any
coverage for yet.

-   NCR3 between Truro and Land's End, using a different braid into
Truro. This'll add quite a bit to our coverage of this route.

-   NCR3 from London Apprentice (a little south of St. Austell) to
near Bodmin.

-   A small portion of NCR2 in Exeter.

-   NCR3 from Tiverton to Cossington, mainly mapped, but I believe
I'll cover one new braid.

-   NCR33 from Cossington to Brean, which isn't mapped at all yet.

-   NCR26 from Winscombe to RCR10 near Clevedon.

-   Short stretches of RCR10 near Clevedon, but trying to
concentrate on the upmapped NCR26 spur into Portishead.

-   NCR41 and RCR10 over the bridge with the M49 to the point that
that the routes diverge. Following RCR10 back to where they converge
again near Elberton. Following NCR41 from here to Gloucester, which
looks like it's pretty much mapped already.

-   Largely unmapped NCR45 from Stourport-on-Severn to Bridgnorth.

-   Unmapped NCR55 from Telford to Lilleshall.

-   RCR75 from Newport to just west of Audlem, closing the gap in
our coverage here.

-   RCR75 from Nantwich to Winsford, also closing a gap in our
coverage.

-   A short portion of NCR5 between Winsford and Northwich, which
we've already got mapped.

-   Join our existing RCR70 coverage near Great Budworth, leaving
near High Legh.

-   A short section of unmapped RCR82 at Shevington, near Wigan.
Also a tiny portion of RCR91 on my way out towards Eccleston.

-   Fully mapped RCR90 from NW of Preston to where it meets NCR6.
NCR6 from here to Hollins Lane, then rejoining RCR90 again shortly
afterwards to NCR69. Again all fully mapped.

-   A tiny portion of unmapped NCR71 at King's Meaburn.

-   A small portion of already-mapped NCR7 at Langwathby.

-   Unmapped NCR72 from near Warwick Bridge to near Carlisle.

-   Unmapped NCR7 from Carlisle to Longtown.

-   Fully mapped NCR74 from Gretna to A70 junction near Douglas.

-   Fully mapped NCR75 from Uddingston through Glasgow to NCR7. NCR7
from here to where it joins NCR1 relatively near Inverness, which should
vastly improve our coverage of the route.

-   NCR1 between John O'Groats back to Canterbury, with these
exceptions: NCR65 from Middlesbrough to Hessle, bits of NCR13 and RCR30
between Dereham and Sudbury [Hopefully this'll mean that we'll have 100%
coverage by the end of my travels, if you except the bit on the Orkneys
:-)]

 

Aside from the NCN mapping my route also takes in many roads that we
haven't got any coverage for yet. I'll also be trying to get lots of
POIs along the way: pubs, phone boxes, postboxes (with refs, of course),
my overnight accommodation (with postcodes when I get their business
cards), together with speed limits, height restrictions, etc.

 

I'll be entering my data from the road, but probably accumulating a bit
of a backlog at the same time because I've only got rest days planned
approximately once a week.

 

Also, for anybody that's within easy reach of London and Canterbury,
I've organised for one of our local cycle campaign's group rides to
coincide with my final day of cycling (22-Aug). So, I'd be glad to meet
others on this day. Details here:
http://www.spokeseastkent.org.uk/events.php

 

It should be a fun OSM summer!

 

Cheers,

 

Gregory

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-talk-be] IMPORTANT - OSM API upgrade - Upgradefinished

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Maarten Deen
 Sent: 22 April 2009 12:19
 To: talk...@openstreetmap.org
 Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-talk-be] IMPORTANT - OSM API upgrade -
 Upgradefinished
 
 Ben Laenen wrote:
 
  The server is now back into a usable state, if you want to start
 mapping
  again.
 
  Little warning though: relations are completely broken with
Potlatch.
  Don't do anything with relations in there until it's fixed or you
may
  completely destroy existing relations. In fact I think it's safer to
  not use Potlatch at all for now because you even can't see if you
 might
  break something...
 
 This is all a myth sent out by the anti-potlatch people
 /funny
 
 On a serious note: I assume most users don't read the mailinglists. If
 it is
 such a large problem, editting with potlatch should be disabled for as
 long as
 this is not fixed.

Well there was an issue in the API with relations where the tag values
would all be set to the same value. I sent out an email to the dev list
yesterday about it. Since then though zere has checked in a fix and I
can confirm that things are working fine for me with JOSM now. I think
that there was a separate issue with Potlatch and relations, but I also
think that I saw separate checkins to fix this as well.

The relations issue in the API that I first mentioned above didn't
affect the relation membership; just the tag values. In the main you
could reconstruct most of the broken data from history pretty easily.

Gregory

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Re: [OSM-talk] We're back

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Ed Loach
 Sent: 21 April 2009 14:28
 To: 'Richard Fairhurst'; talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] We're back
 
 Richard wrote:
  I know of two issues with Potlatch 0.11 at the moment. One is
  relation
  handling (actually I see Ed's just posted about that) - not
  clear yet
  whether this is Potlatch-specific.
 
 JOSM showed the relation that the way was part of, but there seems
 to be a different relation issue affecting at least JOSM recently
 mentioned on dev where amending one relation tag key's value updated
 all the relation keys to have the same value, though are still
 correct in history.
 
 http://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/relation/115694
 http://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/relation/115694/history
 
 Although looking at the history it only lists the tags for the first
 changeset and not the later ones. I'm assuming that isn't by design
 either.

Almost. The tag values shown in the non-history version of the call are
only from the first version, which was what I was attempting to fix the
value for (I meant to type National cycle Network National Route 43, not
...4).

I've shown that the issue also happens with JOSM 1529 (the one currently
considered stable). I suspect that it's API rather than JOSM related and
am currently scanning the Ruby code (and attempting to learn Ruby at the
same time...). Can't find where tag.save is implemented at the moment
though...

Gregory

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Re: [OSM-talk] We're back

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Rolf Bode-Meyer
 Sent: 21 April 2009 19:09
 To: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] We're back
 
 2009/4/21 Gregory Williams
 gregory.willi...@purplegeodesoftware.co.uk:
  The tag values shown in the non-history version of the call are only
  from the first version, which was what I was attempting to fix the
 value
  for (I meant to type National cycle Network National Route 43, not
 ...4).
 
 Hm, I see something different, route in all tags values.
 But assuming the timestamp in the db is correct that might come from
 another of your edits after your post.

That's only because I've made further modifications to the relation
since my earlier posting, when trying various things. I see all route
now instead as well.

Gregory

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Re: [Talk-GB] Possibly using highway=path for country footpaths

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of David Earl
 Sent: 3 April 2009 13:02
 To: Richard Mann
 Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Possibly using highway=path for country
 footpaths

 Well, you know my view on this. A cycleway is a cycleway if it is
 signed
 as a cycleway, not because it appears to be constructed to a standard
 that happens to be suitable for carrying bikes. Likewise bridleway,
 which in the UK permits cyclists to use it (by default).
 
 And where did this arbitrary 2m come from? That would mean some signed
 cycleways in Cambridge wouldn't be marked as such because they are
 wider
 than 2m. Perhaps you are trying somehow to distinguish between a
 specially constructed cycleway and a road which has been converted for
 cycle use. But in my mind that's just a wider cycleway.
 
 It will come as no surprise to you that I completely disagree with
your
 approach to this whole subject.

Indeed. Current guidance (though admittedly not always heeded) in the UK
is for a minimum of 2.5m wide for a cycleway. So only applying
highway=cycleway to ways less than 2m wide would mean that we can't add
any new cycleways that follow the guidance.

Gregory

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Re: [OSM-talk] turn restriction relations: via

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Shaun McDonald
 Sent: 31 March 2009 10:39
 To: Ed Loach
 Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] turn restriction relations: via
 
 
 On 31 Mar 2009, at 10:05, Ed Loach wrote:
 
  This talk of turn restriction relations reminds me of a junction
  where I think I need to add loads of relations, but to date haven't
  as many of them will include a roundabout as the from or to part.
 
  http://is.gd/pOrJ (shortened permalink)
 
  As you can see there is a roundabout, but there is also a dual
  carriageway through the middle with the flow controlled by traffic
  lights. If you are in the lanes which go through as the dual
  carriageway you can't turn onto the roundabout, and if you are in
  the lanes that lead onto the roundabout you can't turn onto the dual
  carriageway lanes. I think for the relations to work I might have to
  split the roundabout from a closed way into a number of sections,
  but I've always drawn roundabouts as closed ways before. Will
  splitting it cause issues with anything else? Although I might not
  have to split as the via (node) will indicate where the restriction
  actually applies, even when the dual carriageway lane crosses the
  roundabout at two nodes. Or perhaps I could just split the dual
  carriageway lanes somewhere in the middle of the roundabout to make
  things easier for me to work out what restrictions I need to add.
 
 
 I have seen some people splitting roundabouts so that the bridge can
 be shown properly.

Also, there's a roundabout that's split into three separate ways in
Canterbury, because it's actually a different road name for each of
those ways. I've also seen several examples of roundabouts being split
to accommodate bridges, particularly at motorway junctions.

  Comments welcome. I'm undecided between only_straight_on and
  no_left_turn on the dual carriageway segments where they cross the
  roundabout (and on the roundabout where it crosses the dual
  carriageway). I think perhaps the first. Which I think means I need
  to add 8 relations to the junction.
 
 I think the only straight on restriction might be a better option.
 
 Shaun
 
 
  Ed

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Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - h==highway

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of PAA
 Sent: 30 March 2009 14:01
 To: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - h==highway
 
  Request for comments on creating the key:h and making it synonymous
 with
  key:highway.
  That's just ridiculous.
  Don't start duplicating tags with the same meaning.
 
 It's definitely not something to be done with all tags, but i don't
 think you made a very good case why it's ridiculous for this one tag
 that is both prone to misspelling and in greater use than all others.
 There are more than 1500 misspellings of the tag in the european
 database right now.
 
i.e. a minute proportion of the total number of highways that are in the
data. Looking at that same European Tagwatch data there are
approximately 6 million highways. 1500 misspellings represents a mere
0.025% of that. Doesn't that suggest that the auto-completing dropdowns
and templates are actually keeping the number of errors to a minimum?

 I use potlatch mainly, and it's simple enough to get a highway tag in
 potlatch. Moreover, all the roads around here have been imported from
 public databases. It doesn't affect me personally, but i think the
 cumulative savings in time for all mappers over the rest of OSM's
 lifetime could be substantial.
 
  -reduce OSM data storage space (over 6M highways just from
  http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/Europe/En/tags.html; simple naive
 estimate
  6M*6 bytes=36MBytes uncompressed data reduction)
  -reduce bandwidth for transfers to/from OSM
 
  planet files are already compressed, you won't gain much by
replacing
  meaningful tags by codeletters.
 
 That could be, but there any gain would still have to be a significant
 by the time the planet is mapped. My rudimentary knowledge of LZW
 suggests that 'h' is probably smaller than a dictionary token, but i
 think i have been wrong before, once or twice...an hour.
 
  And once you start with tag names, you could go on with values and
  replace primary with p, secondary with s and so on.
 
 Could, but i'm definitely not advocating that. Let's not throw the
 baby out with the bathwater, as they say.
 
 I think i've demonstrated some merits in this proposal. Are they any
 good reasons not to do it besides potential confusion? I've waded
 through enough confusion since i joined OSM a few days ago to think
 this small, fathomable addition will be completely lost in the noise.

How about the time it would take to update the software and associated
stylesheets that are consuming the data to cope with the h variant?
Would you be willing to update all of these for no discernable benefit?
Wouldn't it simply be quicker to fix the typos in the data and have
better quality data as a result?!

Gregory

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Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - h==highway

[Gregory Williams]

[Snip]
 
  (I replied quickly this morning before leaving for work and forgot
to
 write
  my main argument, should never reply in a hurry)
  With two synonymous tags you can get inconsistent tagging, like a
way
 tagged
  highway=primary
  h=secondary
 
 Now *that* is a good argument. Well, i had thought it was a win-win
 kind of proposal, but i guess it's not entirely so. I'll keep looking
 for other ways to improve efficiency.

In fact I saw exactly that scenario a little earlier this evening. A few
ways with higwhway=service (sic) and highway=unclassified. I've added
some points adjacent to them in OpenStreetBugs for them to be reviewed
for the correct highway type.

Gregory

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Re: [OSM-talk] highway=cyclefootway

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Mike Harris
 Sent: 28 March 2009 15:05
 To: 'Chris Hill'; 'Stephen Hope'; talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] highway=cyclefootway
 
 By the way - in England and Wales, cyclists are normally allowed to
use
 public bridleways (but the highways authority has no obligation to
 maintain the way to a standard that makes it possible to cycle) unless
 explicitly forbidden by a very localised regulation. Cyclists must
also
 give way to cyclists and horse riders. 
[Snip]

I guess you meant that cyclists are meant to give way to pedestrians and
horse riders. Cyclists having to give way to other cyclists would lead
to deadlock :-)

Gregory

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Re: [OSM-talk] my etrex died?

[Gregory Williams]

Very spooky. I got large gaps in the trace I took yesterday on my eTrex
HCX, but had a very clear view of the sky throughout. I've never had
such a poor trace before from the unit (If you discount the time I
managed to factory-reset the unit, thus switching off logging without
realising -- I wasn't happy...).

Gregory

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Andy Robinson
 Sent: 22 March 2009 20:45
 To: Maning Sambale
 Cc: osm-talk
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] my etrex died?
 
 Maning Sambale wrote:
  For some reasons I can't explain, my etrex couldn't start anymore.
At
  first I thought it's the battery but plugging it to my usb doesn't
 work
  either.
 
  I see no physical damage in the unit and it's still working
 yesterday.
 
  Any idea why?  Or how do repair it.
 
  cheers,
  maning
 
 
  ___
  talk mailing list
  talk@openstreetmap.org
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 Spooky, My eTrex Legend stopped receiving satellite reception when I
 turned it on today. It works fine otherwise suggesting that its the
 receiver not talking to the rest of the unit. I'll be calling Gramin
in
 the morning.
 
 Hope you get yours sorted out.
 
 Not so much cheers
 
 Andy
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Activity Level in My Area?

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: Peter Miller [mailto:petermille...@googlemail.com]
 Sent: 11 March 2009 14:00
 To: Gregory Williams
 Cc: Daniel A Carleton; talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Activity Level in My Area?
 
 
 On 11 Mar 2009, at 09:16, Gregory Williams wrote:
 
  Daniel,
 
  One easy solution would be to sign up for a free OSM Mapper account
  from
  ITO World:
 
  http://www.itoworld.com/static/osmmapper
 
  This'll allow you to view changes and additions to the data on a map
  for
  an area that you choose from which you'll be able to judge the level
  of
  activity.
 
 Fyi, we recently upgraded OSM Mapper and increased the area which can
 be monitored at one time so do try creating some bigger areas!
 
 Do note however that our product only shows who the 'last' person to
 touch the way was. It is very possibly that in some areas there are
 major 'hidden' contributors and see the open question to the lawyers
 on how we should deal with ways touched by multiple people, only some
 of whom are contactable or who sign up to the new license.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Open_Issues#Featur

es_touched_by_multiple_contributors.2C_not_all_of_whom_sign_up_to_new_t
 erms
 
 That being said, it would be a really good idea for people to know who
 the current contributors in their area are and to get into contact
 with them. I am doing that in my area for sure.

Yes, certainly in my area I've been adding extra levels of detail (such
as maxspeed, maxweight, motorcar=destination, etc.) to ways mapped by
others. So viewing those areas will show my name as the most recent
contributor, but I didn't go down all of those roads originally.

There are also a few places where I've fixed the topology (several
almost-connecting ways when I know that they do connect in reality). So,
again, I'm listed at the most recent contributor when in reality the
majority of the work there was done by someone else.

So, it's not necessarily so easy to see who the major contributor to the
data is. However it would give Daniel a good idea of whether the data is
being actively maintained, which I think was the gist of the question.

Gregory

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Re: [OSM-talk] Activity Level in My Area?

[Gregory Williams]

Daniel,

One easy solution would be to sign up for a free OSM Mapper account from
ITO World:

http://www.itoworld.com/static/osmmapper

This'll allow you to view changes and additions to the data on a map for
an area that you choose from which you'll be able to judge the level of
activity.

Cheers,

Gregory

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Daniel A Carleton
 Sent: 11 March 2009 00:54
 To: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [OSM-talk] Activity Level in My Area?
 
 Hello All,
 
 I'm trying to evaluate what street map dataset to go with for a web
 application.  I appreciate the features in the OSM data that would
 otherwise go overlooked by big commercial products.  e.g. Trails and
 such.  Also the affordability!  There is substantial risk, though,
 because the TIGER data is not sufficient, and I don't know how active
 the OSM mapping community is in my area.
 
 Is there an easy way to determine the activity level of users in my
 area?  I live in Seattle, WA USA.  Seems like most of you folks are in
 Europe.
 
 Thanks,
 
 - Daniel
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] amenity=doctor or amenity=doctors ? [tagging]

[Gregory Williams]

I think:
- Document it in the singular form (the other amenities are singular
(except toilets, where there are facilities per gender), so it matches
reality).
- Send another mail to the list to give notice that you intend to update
amenity=doctors to amenity=doctor via a bot in say a fortnight's time.
That gives people time to update rendering rules to match the new tag if
they're using it on some private map.
- Open for voting if you like, but with over 1700 uses in the two forms
combined I think it's safe to say that it's considered a useful tag
already.

Gregory

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Chadwick (email lists)
 Sent: 20 February 2009 10:04
 To: osm Talk
 Subject: [OSM-talk] amenity=doctor or amenity=doctors ? [tagging]
 
 amenity=doctors was proposed, but died due to lack of love.
 Nevertheless, JOSM has chosen to implement it, as has t...@h (I think).
 
   * http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/GP_Surgery
   * amenity=doctors
   * tag usage: 1528 nodes or ways as of 2009-02-20
 
 amenity=doctor has since been proposed, and is dying due to lack of
 love. It was apparently RFCed on 2008-09-06, but I haven't been able
to
 find any evidence in the archives.
 
   * http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Doctor
   * amenity=doctor
   * tag usage: 265 nodes or ways as of 2009-02-20
 
 I think this is a notable, relevant, and verifiable thing to have on
 Tag_features. Shall I merge the two, spit out a proper proposal and
 description and get it all voted on properly, or just get on with it
 and
 add it and update the osmdb accordingly with a bot?
 
 --
 Andrew Chadwick
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Is it me?

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Ed Loach
 Sent: 13 February 2009 20:52
 To: 'talk OSM'
 Subject: [OSM-talk] Is it me?
 
 Or has the login page changed so that Internet Explorer 7 users can't
 log in? I've tried on 32 bit Windows XP Pro and 64 bit Windows Vista
 and on neither can the username or password be entered. I can still
log
 in using Firefox, and indeed the fields are precompleted (though I can
 amend the entries).
 
 But I'd like to be able to use IE again if someone can work out what's
 wrong with the login form.
 
It's not you. I can confirm that too in IE7, though I use Firefox
usually.

I can't place the focus in either the username or password fields. I
note also that donation image seems to be a very strange spot (hovering
over the map), so wonder whether the two could somehow be related.

Gregory

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Re: [OSM-talk] Is it me?

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: Tom Hughes [mailto:t...@compton.nu]
 Sent: 13 February 2009 21:11
 To: Gregory Williams
 Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Is it me?
 
 Gregory Williams wrote:
 
  I can't place the focus in either the username or password fields. I
  note also that donation image seems to be a very strange spot
 (hovering
  over the map), so wonder whether the two could somehow be related.
 
 Hmm... I wonder if you've got a stale stylesheet? Try forcing a reload
 with ctrl+shift reload and see if that fixes it.

No difference. Upon further investigation I notice that I can tab my way
into the appropriate fields, but just not select them using the mouse.
It's as if the donation stuff is in a large transparent DIV and that
that covers the fields. Will investigate some more...

Gregory

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Re: [OSM-talk] Is it me?

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: Tom Hughes [mailto:t...@compton.nu]
 Sent: 13 February 2009 21:40
 To: Gregory Williams
 Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Is it me?
 
 Gregory Williams wrote:
 
  No difference. Upon further investigation I notice that I can tab my
 way
  into the appropriate fields, but just not select them using the
 mouse.
  It's as if the donation stuff is in a large transparent DIV and that
  that covers the fields. Will investigate some more...
 
 The button is a div that sits within another div that holds the whole
 left hand column. The button div has a fixed width that matches the
 image width and auto left and right margins to cause it to be centred
 within the parent element (ie the left column).
 
 Quite why it would bust out of there is unclear... Especially if it is
 only happening on that page when all the pages have basically the same
 stucture.

Agreed that the structure of the page looks good to me too.

The donation images are shown misplaced on both the home page and the
login page. I've also noticed that the Where am I? link is floating on
the right-hand side about 2/3 of the way down the page, instead of in
its usual place.

I've just confirmed this on a separate system that I've never accessed
the site from before, so definitely nothing cached.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Is it me?

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: dstu...@gmail.com [mailto:dstu...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Dave
 Stubbs
 Sent: 13 February 2009 22:32
 To: Gregory Williams
 Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Is it me?
 
 2009/2/13 Gregory Williams
 gregory.willi...@purplegeodesoftware.co.uk:
  -Original Message-
  From: Tom Hughes [mailto:t...@compton.nu]
  Sent: 13 February 2009 21:40
  To: Gregory Williams
  Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
  Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Is it me?
 
  Gregory Williams wrote:
 
   No difference. Upon further investigation I notice that I can tab
 my
  way
   into the appropriate fields, but just not select them using the
  mouse.
   It's as if the donation stuff is in a large transparent DIV and
 that
   that covers the fields. Will investigate some more...
 
  The button is a div that sits within another div that holds the
 whole
  left hand column. The button div has a fixed width that matches the
  image width and auto left and right margins to cause it to be
 centred
  within the parent element (ie the left column).
 
  Quite why it would bust out of there is unclear... Especially if it
 is
  only happening on that page when all the pages have basically the
 same
  stucture.
 
  Agreed that the structure of the page looks good to me too.
 
  The donation images are shown misplaced on both the home page and the
  login page. I've also noticed that the Where am I? link is floating
 on
  the right-hand side about 2/3 of the way down the page, instead of in
  its usual place.
 
  I've just confirmed this on a separate system that I've never
 accessed
  the site from before, so definitely nothing cached.
 
 
 Confirmed here too. IE7 manages to cock up the page like noting else
 I've seen.
 You can select the text fields with the mouse, but only if you hit the
 very top pixel of each field... I have no idea what could cause that.

It looks like it's the margin-left: auto and margin-right: auto CSS for the 
button class that's causing it. Commenting them out places the Where am I? 
link and both donation links back to the left of the map, though not perfectly 
positioned by the looks of things.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Cycle Infrastructure in US

[Gregory Williams]

  Also, has anyone tagged a bike box?
 (http://www.portlandonline.com/TRANSPORTATION/index.cfm?c=46717
  )
 
  That is what we bits call a cycle advance stop. I've not seen anyone
  tag this yet, though I do know of one
 
 
 
 One Shaun?! They're on about half of the traffic lights in London!
 
 I haven't been tagging them, mostly because they're so ubiquitous
 around this way, they're frequently ignored anyway, and also because I
 haven't been tagging traffic lights either. I'd suggest something
 along the lines of an extra tag on the traffic lights.

That assumes that there's an advanced stop line on every approach to the
traffic lights. I know of several near to me where only some approaches
are afforded ASLs. I've been thinking that there are two possible ways
to tag this:
(1) Use a relation containing the junction node and the approaching way.
Renderers could render a standard length of ASL, but this would be
artificially generated.
(2) Split the way at the back boundary of the ASL's box and apply an
extra tag for the way that forms the entire length of the box.

Out of the two I'd prefer (1).

Gregory

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Re: [Talk-GB] Trying to upload postbox

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Mike
 Sent: 21 January 2009 20:43
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [Talk-GB] Trying to upload postbox
 
 Folks,
 
 I've recently tried to add a postbox to the OSM.  I opened the GPX in
 JOSM and edited the relivant details.  I then uploaded.  The next day,
 I opened JOSM and downloaded the map section (at the suggestion of
 someone from the IRC channel) and I can see the postbox amungst the
 data pulled down.  However, it has never appeared on the OSM.  Am I
 doing something totally daft?
 
 The postbox is at 51.419319939 -0.167227853, on Devonshire Road and is
 tagged ref=SW19 77.
 
 Mike.

You're doing nothing wrong. It's there on the map:

http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=51.419363364544196lon=-0.1673871
1848297zoom=17layers=0B000F000F

I can think of two reasons that you couldn't see it:
(1) I see that you entered the data last Friday (the 16th). You looked
at the Mapnik rendering of the map (the default on
www.openstreetmap.org), which is gets updated on a weekly basis some
time starting each Wednesday. [It's on the Mapnik rendering now,
though.]
(2) You didn't zoom in far enough. Features like postboxes are only
shown on zoom levels 17 and 18 for Mapnik and just level 17 (there isn't
an 18) for Osmarender. Otherwise the maps would simply be too cluttered.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Andy Robinson (blackadder-
 lists)
 Sent: 19 January 2009 10:26
 To: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
 
 I started a stub http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Walking_Routes
 based
 upon the Cycle Routes page. I hope this doesn't duplicate anything but
 I
 could not find a landing page on the wiki to cover long distance
 walking and
 hiking routes generally.
 
 Needs work to pull stuff together and the UK long distance footpath
 link is
 to Wikipedia and I guess we should produce a table(s) of our own to
 show
 progress on mapping each route.
 
 I suspect 2009 will see the emergence of proper OSM walking/hiking
maps
 so
 its time we got our act together.
 
 Please pull the page apart and add new stuff. Ideally try to keep
 content
 and ideas in the same sort of format as the Cycle Route ones so that
we
 have
 some synergy and we don't have to reinvent the wheel yet again ;-)

There's the following existing page for the UK:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_Long_Dista
nce_Paths

Gregory

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Re: [Talk-GB] Locating postboxes - any photos around?

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of LeedsTracker
 Sent: 14 January 2009 01:38
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org; talk-gb-theno...@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [Talk-GB] Locating postboxes - any photos around?
 
 Apologies for cross-posting, and sorry if you already knew about this.
 I searched talk-gb via Google and found nothing, and this was new to
 me until a few days ago.
 
 A nifty project that uses OSM to locate postboxes:
 http://www.dracos.co.uk/play/locating-postboxes/
 
 If Royal Mail won't provide a map, then OSM and Dracos' project could
 do so in time, which could be useful PR for OSM.
 
 Quote: The Royal Mail supplied a list of every postbox's location -
 unfortunately, it did not have useful co-ordinates, only postcodes or
 sub-postcodes and some textual data. So I wrote this site: look up the
 postboxes near you by entering the first half of your postcode, locate
 one whose location you know on the map, pick which postbox you've
 located, and submit. The pages also include postbox last collection
 times, if we know them.
 
 Even handier:
 You can add postboxes and their references to OSM - use a key of ref,
 and this site will automatically pick them up every week or so.
 
 I tend to map with a camera and take photos of the front plate of
 postboxes where possible. The reference needed is at the bottom of the
 plate, e.g. LS1 258
 
 Hope this prompts a few more to join in! 6,654 postboxes located so
 far...
 
 cheers,
 LT

It also makes for an interesting way to do mapping. In a few recent
lunchtimes I've been making a list of a few as-yet unreferenced
postboxes and going out to get the locations and references. I then map
other things I see on the way as well, e.g. I've been doing filling in
of roads where we don't have names.

Of course Royal Mail's descriptions for the locations of some of the
postboxes leave a little to be desired, but that's just part of the fun!

Gregory

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Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping Party this month?

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Nick Whitelegg
 Sent: 12 January 2009 12:47
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [Talk-GB] Mapping Party this month?
 
 Hello everyone,
 
 Was there talk of another mapping party this month somewhere in the
 southwest on the 24/25th? If it's daytrippable from Southampton I
 should
 be able to make it. Was Yeovil an idea?

I emailed Andy Robinson a few days ago about the CloudMade parties. He
said that there won't be a January one and that the February one is
scheduled for the weekend of the 21st/22nd.

Cheers,

Gregory

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Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans long-distance routes

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Richard Fairhurst
 Sent: 5 January 2009 10:48
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [Talk-GB] Sustrans long-distance routes
 
 As of this weekend we have our first really long-distance National
 Cycle Network route substantially complete.
 
 Route 4 is now done from London to Fishguard, including both 'braids'
 through Wiltshire. There are some tiny gaps in London and Bristol; the
 NCN route itself is incomplete in Newport, and I suspect Carmarthen;
 and Pontypridd could do with a little attention. Otherwise it's all
 there.

I'll be cycling most of NCR1 this summer as part of a round Britain
cycle trip :-). So there will be only very short sections unmapped after
that (if any). I'll also be covering some of the other unmapped NCN
routes for parts of my trip.

More details will follow in a few months.

Gregory

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Re: [Talk-GB] Announcement: Second City, Birmingham, and its surrounds completed

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
 boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Andy Robinson (blackadder-
 lists)
 Sent: 23 December 2008 09:37
 To: t...@openstreetmap.org; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org; talk-gb-
 westmidla...@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [Talk-GB] Announcement: Second City, Birmingham,and its
 surrounds completed
 
 It is with great pleasure, and not just a little excitement, that I
can
 announce that the mappers in Birmingham having set the task of
 completing
 the whole of the city by Christmas have achieved just that.
 
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.4708lon=-
 1.8972zoom=12layers=0B00FT
 F

Congratulations to everyone involved. A truly amazing effort!

Have a great Christmas!

Gregory

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Re: [Talk-GB] Request for UK address lists for postcode extraction

[Gregory Williams]

 One source I am exploring is planning application listings produced by
 the
 local authority. Which is I think were you had headed?

I'm not sure of the legal situation with planning data, but if things
seem fine with that then you might be interested to know that the
PlanningAlerts project have developed a number of screen scrapers for
various local authorities:

http://code.google.com/p/planningalerts/wiki/ExistingScrapers

Cheers,

Gregory

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Re: [Talk-GB] Cycle lane in one direction only

[Gregory Williams]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-gb-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gregory Williams
 Sent: 30 September 2008 15:56
 To: Andrew Chadwick (mailing lists); talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Cycle lane in one direction only
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-gb-
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Chadwick (mailing
 lists)
  Sent: 30 September 2008 15:29
  To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
  Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Cycle lane in one direction only
 
 [Snip]
 
  We'll probably have to introduce a new tag to say on which side of
 the
  road the cycle lane(s) lie, relative to the direction of the way's
  arrow. What about adding something like:
 
 cycleway:left=any value permissible for cycleway
 cycleway:right=any permissible value for cycleway
 
  and stating explicitly that the existing cycleway=* definition still
  means both sides: cycleway=FOO would imply both cycleway:left=FOO
and
  cycleway:right=FOO.
 
 That seems sensible to me. It's something I've been wondering about as
 well. I'm aware of several places where there is a cycle lane only on
 one side of the road. For the moment they're tagged as if there is a
 lane on both sides.
 
 Now we need to be able to render something like that. As noted in the
 comments on Andy Allan's blog post about rendering cycle lanes [1]
 Mapnik doesn't support rendering offset from the centre of a line. I
 think the same is true for Osmarender? I guess that it would be
 possible
 by manipulating the geometry accordingly in the Postgres query for
 Mapnik (though a tremendous hack).

First of all, here's the URL I managed to miss:

[1]
http://www.gravitystorm.co.uk/shine/archives/2008/08/17/hill-colouring-o
n-the-cycle-map/#comment-42219

Secondly, I've just realised that manipulating the geometry like I
suggested above would be even worse -- it wouldn't be able to cope with
multiple zoom levels. Oh well, the idea was a hack anyway...

Gregory

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Re: [Talk-GB] reprojected NPE

[Gregory Williams]

I've just taken a look at the Canterbury tile. It looks good, although
I'd observe that there is a noticeable horizontal shift in places. Look
at Stone Street, for example (That's the B2068 Roman Road south of
Canterbury for non-locals on the list.).

Was it our email conversation the other day which sparked you to look at
this?

Gregory

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-gb-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Sheerman-Chase
 Sent: 9 April 2008 18:55
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [Talk-GB] reprojected NPE
 
 
 Hi all,
 
 I have put a small test version of the NPE map reprojected for more
 accurate use in JOSM. The URL is:
 
 http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~timsc/wms/quickmap.php?
 
 I have only uploaded 3 tiles each 0.1 by 0.1 degrees. The areas are
 Gravesend, Canterbury and Ashford, all in Kent. You might notice the
 grid lines are no longer horizontal and vertical unlike the GBOS NPE
 tiles.
 
 I would appreciate feedback or suggestions. If feedback is positive, I
 will reproject the whole of the UK NPE and upload it to the dev
server.
 Also it may be worth adding the WMS to JOSM by default.
 
 Regards,
 
 Tim
 
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] London to Brighton Bike Ride - registration

[Gregory Williams]

Excellent idea, thanks for that. The height profile they give out on the
day is very approximate.

Just wondering, did you use a specific bit of software for that, or
simply extract the height values from the XML?

Gregory

-Original Message-
From: Andy Robinson (blackadder) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 29 February 2008 19:48
To: Gregory Williams; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: RE: [Talk-GB] London to Brighton Bike Ride - registration

Gregory Williams wrote:
Sent: 29 February 2008 3:55 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] London to Brighton Bike Ride - registration

Don't worry! I took a trace last year:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Gregory%20Williams/traces/27079

Gregory

Thanks for the link Gregory. I turned the trace into an elevation
profile,
that won't change much even if the route is altered this year.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Image:2007LondonToBrighton.jpg


Cheers

Andy


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Jaggard
Sent: 29 February 2008 15:19
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] London to Brighton Bike Ride - registration

The OSM cycling team will, of course, take twice as long to reach the
finish
line as any other team, on account of having to go twice round each
roundabout and detour down any interesting-looking side roads...

:-)

Paul.

-Original Message-
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:34:33 -
From: Andy Robinson \(blackadder\) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Talk-GB] London to Brighton Bike Ride - registration
   reminder!
To: 'OSM Talk' [EMAIL PROTECTED],
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Message-ID:

!!AAAuAOKaD4mR3JBOrEpRon92nMgBANp/H2q5kHFIvKMsnZiQaZA
A
AAAB
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=us-ascii

A reminder that if you are thinking of joining the OSM team entering
the
London to Brighton Bike Ride on June 15th you need to get your entry
form in
ASAP. Places go really quickly so don't dither if you plan to joint the
fun.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/London_to_Brighton_Bike_Ride


Cheers

Andy
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Re: [Talk-GB] London to Brighton Bike Ride - registration

[Gregory Williams]

Don't worry! I took a trace last year:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Gregory%20Williams/traces/27079

Gregory

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Jaggard
Sent: 29 February 2008 15:19
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] London to Brighton Bike Ride - registration

The OSM cycling team will, of course, take twice as long to reach the
finish
line as any other team, on account of having to go twice round each
roundabout and detour down any interesting-looking side roads...

:-)

Paul.

-Original Message-
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:34:33 -
From: Andy Robinson \(blackadder\) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Talk-GB] London to Brighton Bike Ride - registration
reminder!
To: 'OSM Talk' [EMAIL PROTECTED],
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Message-ID:

!!AAAuAOKaD4mR3JBOrEpRon92nMgBANp/H2q5kHFIvKMsnZiQaZAA
AAAB
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii

A reminder that if you are thinking of joining the OSM team entering the
London to Brighton Bike Ride on June 15th you need to get your entry
form in
ASAP. Places go really quickly so don't dither if you plan to joint the
fun.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/London_to_Brighton_Bike_Ride


Cheers

Andy
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Re: [Talk-GB] Oxford hi-res on Yahoo

[Gregory Williams]

http://maps.yahoo.com/broadband/#mvt=slat=52.949414lon=-1.178971mag=4

PS, I also discovered several other new areas of coverage last night.
See:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Yahoo%21_Aerial_Imagery/Coverage

Gregory

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Russ Phillips
Sent: 10 January 2008 12:17
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Oxford hi-res on Yahoo

On Thu, January 10, 2008 12:00 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 19:24:09 -
 From: Gregory Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Part of Nottingham also appears to have been added to the coverage.
:-)

That's good news. Do you have a URL or lat/lon?

Russ



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Re: [Talk-GB] Oxford hi-res on Yahoo

[Gregory Williams]

Part of Nottingham also appears to have been added to the coverage. :-)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard
Fairhurst
Sent: 9 January 2008 15:22
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-GB] Oxford hi-res on Yahoo

Socks on IRC has just spotted Oxford has gone hi-res.

Any other additions?

cheers
Richard


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Re: [Talk-GB] A26

[Gregory Williams]

Should be a bit tidier now; I've fixed the classes there. Some of what
was marked as the A26 is actually the A228. Looking at NPE it's even
marked as such on there, so I'm not sure where the erroneous A26 came
from.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OJW
Sent: 14 December 2007 20:57
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-GB] A26

What colour is an A-road?

http://informationfreeway.org/?lat=51.267lon=0.427zoom=14layers=B000F
000


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Re: [Talk-GB] Southwest UK mapping party

[Gregory Williams]

It was me that's been doing lots of tracing in the Southwest. I was just
trying to lay a framework of the roads to help with surveying others
from. I often find it easier to survey areas bounded my a number of
major roads in one go. It gave me something to do whilst the weather was
rubbish and I couldn't get out on my bike to get my own surveys where I
live.

It's quite possible that some of the roads have changed since NPE, but
not being local to the area I don't know that firsthand. Any other
source I might use for the references / class of roads would mean me
breaching copyright.

Someone more knowledgable about the area can relabel, and perhaps refine
my traces with a survey. If the original road now forms more than one
new road then the way can just be split at the appropriate point.

Well done on the 1M+ trackpoints in the Southwest. It'll be great to
have some more surveyed data in the area. BTW, I think there's a batch
upload script available somewhere.

Gregory

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Newton
Sent: 21 July 2007 05:45
To: Richard Fairhurst
Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Southwest UK mapping party

On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 09:28:09AM +0100, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
 OJW wrote:
  I'm also penciling-in a week of Devon/North Cornwall exploration
in the
  weekend of 31 August - 3rd September
 
 Worth alerting Mike tracing NPE maps Calder? He's local:
 http://www.guillemotdesign.org/

In my holiday-mapping of Cornwall a few weeks ago I noticed someone had
been doing a lot of tracing (this was Southern Cornwall Helston/St.Ives/
Land's End). Unfortunately they haven't been taking into account that
many of the larger roads have changed recently. The A30, for instance,
is practically a completely different route.

However, most of the minor roads are still the same. Something for
NPE tracers to consider.

I need to work out how to upload all my 1M+ trackpoints, including
the Cornish bits. Grr for web interfaces ;).

-- 
Matthew

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